Daryn<div><br></div><div>It's not just about the technology, but also about the goals (epistemology) behind the recordings and the attention by the recorders to such things as environment, signal-to-noise ratio, spatial locations etc. David Nathan has written about this recently, and his paper in Language Documentation and Description Volume 7 on audio explicitly deals with these issues.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Way back in the 1960's and 1970's linguists (and I was one of them) generally made audio recordings as a way station to transcription, after which the recording was put aside and no longer of interest. The audio was merely *evidence* for creation of the linguistic analysis (or even evidence for the fact that we had been "in the field"). So what if there was wind noise on the tape, or microphone handling interference.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I think today within the documentary paradigm some people at least have been thinking of recording as a way to capture (aspects of) performance, and the recordings themselves then become crucial "resources" for the documentation project, for creation of multimedia, for multi-disciplinary analysis. This tension between "evidence" and "performance" is equally or even more acute with video.</div>
<div><br></div><div>I personally am not convinced that "something is better than nothing" -- David indeed argues that not attempting to do the best we can could be seen as unethical and disrespectful of the people who share their knowledge with us.</div>
<div><br></div><div>But don't believe me -- read his paper.</div><div><br></div><div>Peter<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 26 May 2010 08:47, Daryn McKenny <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:daryn@acra.org.au">daryn@acra.org.au</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><div lang="EN-AU" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thanks Andrea, but I got no idea what “</span>good-naturedly-polemic” means, seeing it has the word ‘good’ in it I will take it as the technical term for ‘a really, really good fella’. <span style="font-family:Wingdings">J</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">But that I suppose is the point I am trying to get across, there have been some excellent technical answers here which are all relevant but we have been a bit minimal on the human aspect of this, we can and do get caught up with technical way too much, and we all know what is technical today is going to be ancient tomorrow.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">If we have to tug at the heart strings every now and then so be it, that’s what people do to me to bring me back to reality seeing as though I am also caught up in the technical world, so to Dr Terry that was a little tug from me, if you can afford it get a H4n or similar, if you can’t, fine, we all know that any recording is better than no recording and you are already doing great recordings with the H2.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">We, like many others around the world, are currently digitising our old audio cassettes, the original recordings date back over 40 years, in other words yesterday and today all I have been listening to is these old recordings wishing we could have been able to have recorded that speaker today, because of the technology used then and what we have now.</p>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">Here is a link which you may have seen on ILAT: <a href="http://www.allanadam.com/index.php?page=home" target="_blank">http://www.allanadam.com/index.php?page=home</a>, what they are doing with their minimal support just brought me back to earth a bit.</p>
<div class="im"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Regards</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Daryn </span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#BFBFBF"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#BFBFBF"> </span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#BFBFBF">Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc. Trading as:</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Miromaa Aboriginal Language and Technology Centre</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#BFBFBF"> </span></b><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#BFBFBF"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0D0D0D">P | 02 4927 8222 F | 02 4925 2185 E | </span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:daryn@acra.org.au" target="_blank">daryn@acra.org.au</a> W | <a href="http://www.acra.org.au/" target="_blank">www.acra.org.au</a> & <a href="http://www.miromaa.com.au/" target="_blank">www.miromaa.com.au</a></span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0D0D0D"></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0D0D0D"> </span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#0D0D0D">P</span><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0D0D0D"> </span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0D0D0D"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0D0D0D">Please consider the environment before printing this</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0D0D0D"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0D0D0D">email</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#0D0D0D"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#BFBFBF"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#BFBFBF">The Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc. respects the privacy of individuals and strives to comply with all areas of the Privacy Act. The contents of this email are intended for the purpose of the person or persons named in either the "To" or "CC" boxes of the email. Any person not named in these boxes in receipt of this email should immediately delete this email and advise the sender accordingly.</span></i><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt"> Andrea L. Berez [mailto:<a href="mailto:andrea.berez@gmail.com" target="_blank">andrea.berez@gmail.com</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 25 May 2010 10:37 PM<br><b>To:</b> Daryn McKenny<br><b>Cc:</b> RNLD List</span></p><div><div></div><div class="h5"><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Zoom H4N reduced pricing for those interested</div></div><p>
</p><div><div></div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi folks,<br><br>I have one of each; I find them both very good and I use them in different setting as each has different advantages. The H2 is my primary recorder for one-on-one sessions. I have never had it break, it is very easy to use, the sound quality is very good, and it has great battery life. Perhaps most importantly for me, my 80+ year old consultants think it looks familiar. It looks like a microphone, not a gadget from outer space. I also feel better tossing it in my bag and running around with it, since damaging it would not be such a financial hit. <br>
<br>I use the H4n for larger, multispeaker situations where I can really take advantage of the two XLR inputs and some long cables. This is really useful for Elders Meetings and the like. I am very pleased with the quality of the 4-channel input, and the USB transfer is lightening-fast. I would also choose this one for recordings for detailed phonetic work, probably with an appropriate headmount mic (which I can't yet afford). However, it takes longer to set up (especially with externals), is hungrier for batteries than the H2 (in fact I don't dare use the external mics without plugging the thing into an electrical source for anything longer than about half an hour), and its appearance is too intimidating for intimate settings, especially with new consultants. <br>
<br>If you have the money and the space in your kit for a back-up recorder, why not get one of each? There are pros and cons to both, and it's nice to have the luxury to choose the best tool for the situation at hand.<br>
<br>And Daryn, perhaps you were just being good-naturedly-polemic, but I think your "hard sell" line is a little too, well, hard. We all want the best possible recordings, but we have to balance that with other demands. There are times in my fieldwork where the highest-quality recorder is not the right tool for the job.<br>
<br>Just my two cents,<br>Andrea<br><br>And PS yes I do track in my metadata which recorder was used.<br clear="all">-----------------------------<br>Andrea L. Berez<br>PhD candidate, Dept. of Linguistics<br>University of California, Santa Barbara<br>
<a href="http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~aberez/" target="_blank">http://www.uweb.ucsb.edu/~aberez/</a><br><br></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 11:40 PM, Daryn McKenny <<a href="mailto:daryn@acra.org.au" target="_blank">daryn@acra.org.au</a>> wrote:</p>
<div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Terry my hard sell to you would be this:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">BUY IT, your language work is to important and after you and your work is done hopefully younger ears are going to take over and you don’t want the young ones saying “I wish that Dr Terry fella had used a better recorder…”</span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Regards</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">Daryn </span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#BFBFBF"> </span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#BFBFBF">Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc. Trading as:</span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D">Miromaa Aboriginal Language and Technology Centre</span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#BFBFBF"> </span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0D0D0D">P | 02 4927 8222 F | 02 4925 2185 E | </span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#1F497D"><a href="mailto:daryn@acra.org.au" target="_blank">daryn@acra.org.au</a> W | <a href="http://www.acra.org.au/" target="_blank">www.acra.org.au</a> & <a href="http://www.miromaa.com.au/" target="_blank">www.miromaa.com.au</a></span></b></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#0D0D0D"> </span></b></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:Webdings;color:#0D0D0D">P</span><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0D0D0D"> </span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0D0D0D"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0D0D0D">Please consider the environment before printing this</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0D0D0D"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS";color:#0D0D0D">email</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#BFBFBF"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-size:8.0pt;color:#BFBFBF">The Arwarbukarl Cultural Resource Association Inc. respects the privacy of individuals and strives to comply with all areas of the Privacy Act. The contents of this email are intended for the purpose of the person or persons named in either the "To" or "CC" boxes of the email. Any person not named in these boxes in receipt of this email should immediately delete this email and advise the sender accordingly.</span></i></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p></div><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt"> Terry J. Klokeid [mailto:<a href="mailto:klokeid@victoria.tc.ca" target="_blank">klokeid@victoria.tc.ca</a>] <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, 25 May 2010 5:17 PM<br><b>To:</b> RNLD List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: Zoom H4N reduced pricing for those interested</span></p></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for your prompt and frank response, Mark.</p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">The only thing is,</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">(a) our team has never had any H2 break. That's 4 H2s that have held up over about 2 years, and they travel about a fair bit.</p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal">(b) we find the sound quality excellent</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">and</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">(c) we use the built-in mikes, not plugins.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Consideration (b) concerns me. We find the sound quality excellent - is that due to the fact that our ears are all over 60 years old? Some being in the 75-80 year old range. Do younger ears hear differences in speech sound quality that escape us?</p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I could go buy an H4n tomorrow, as I'll be visiting the Big City (as we call it), but I do need to be convinced.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
</p></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Dr. Terry J. Klokeid<br>Nuchquu-a</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><br>
Adjunct Professor of Linguistics, University of Victoria</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Coordinator, Nuu-chah-nulth Language Council</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Developer, Huu-ay-aht Language Recovery Program</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">North Island College, Room S111A </span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">3699 Roger Street <br>Port Alberni, BC V9Y 8E3 </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">250.724.8743</span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><a href="mailto:klokeid@uvic.ca" target="_blank">klokeid@uvic.ca</a></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 2010-05-24, at 11:19 pm, Mark Post wrote:</p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p><div><p class="MsoNormal">In my experience, the H2 (a) is cheaply made and prone to breaking (b) has terrible inbuilt mics and (c) only has a 3.5mm input, hence requiring either an XLR->3.5mm adaptor or willingness to settle on a substandard mic. For the additional money, the H4n performs *much* better on all of these fronts. I still use H2s as emergency backups, and they are certainly nice and lightweight/small, but the H4n really does produce far, far better recordings!<br>
Mark<br><br>On 25/05/2010 16:11, Terry J. Klokeid wrote: </p><p class="MsoNormal">On this list, I discern an avoidance of the Zoom H2, which can be purchased for less than half what the H4 costs. Can someone please explain what reasons there are for not using the H2. Our language team uses H2s and we are happy with the gadget. Are we missing something? </p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">For example:</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On 2010-05-24, at 10:56 pm, Daryn McKenny wrote:</p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">
</p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">...The Zoom [H4N ] gets mentioned a bit here, I just thought I would let you all know that our supplier in Newcastle is currently selling them for $439... This product first started at $899 then $649 and now this price, too good. </span></p>
</div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br><br></p><pre>-- </pre><pre>Mark W. Post, PhD</pre><pre>Postdoctoral Research Fellow in Anthropological Linguistics</pre>
<pre>The Cairns Institute</pre><pre>James Cook University</pre><pre>QLD 4878 Australia</pre><pre> </pre><pre>EML: <a href="mailto:mark.post@jcu.edu.au" target="_blank">mark.post@jcu.edu.au</a></pre><pre>TEL: +61-7-4042-1881 (AU)</pre>
<pre>TEL: +91-97183-63544 (IN-Del)</pre><pre>TEL: +91-94360-42352 (IN-NE)</pre><pre> </pre><pre>Web: <a href="http://jamescook.academia.edu/MarkWPost" target="_blank">http://jamescook.academia.edu/MarkWPost</a></pre></div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Terry J. Klokeid</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><a href="mailto:klokeid@uvic.ca" target="_blank">klokeid@uvic.ca</a></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"> </p><div>
<div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Dr. Terry J. Klokeid<br>Nuchquu-a</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><br>
Adjunct Professor of Linguistics, University of Victoria</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Coordinator, Nuu-chah-nulth Language Council</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Developer, Huu-ay-aht Language Recovery Program</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">North Island College, Room S111A </span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">3699 Roger Street <br>Port Alberni, BC V9Y 8E3 </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">250.724.8743</span></p>
<div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">home office</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Amblewood Multimedia Consulting</span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">126 Amblewood Drive<br>SaltSpring Island BC V8K 1X2</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">250.653.4099</span></p>
</div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">mobile 250.208.9567</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><a href="mailto:klokeid@uvic.ca" target="_blank">klokeid@uvic.ca</a></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black">Terry J. Klokeid</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><a href="mailto:klokeid@uvic.ca" target="_blank">klokeid@uvic.ca</a></span></p>
</div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Prof Peter K. Austin<br>Marit Rausing Chair in Field Linguistics<br>Department of Linguistics, SOAS<br>Thornhaugh Street, Russell Square<br>London WC1H 0XG<br>
United Kingdom<br><br>web: <a href="http://www.hrelp.org/aboutus/staff/index.php?cd=pa">http://www.hrelp.org/aboutus/staff/index.php?cd=pa</a><br>
</div>