Name for the Western Rgyalrong languages

[云帆赖]

Dear all,

Thanks for the discussions on the Ergong/Risnyu/Tre-hor language.

I would like to share some opinions about the Lavrung language particularly
(and I just read Gyu Lha's message).
As mentions Guillaume, according to my own fieldwork data, Lavrung is
largely unknown as an autonym in the region. Huang Bufan (2007:3) states
that "Lavrung" is actually an exonym used by people from surrounding
regions.

Using an exonym is not a severe problem: some (actually most) linguists use
"Formosan languages" to designate Austronesian languages in Taiwan, which
is of Portuguese origins. But I'm not sure how widely the term "Lavrung" is
used among "people from surrounding regions". I have quite some doubts
about it.

When asked about "Lavrung" in Guanyinqiao, the first thing my informants
could think of (only if something could actually be thought of) is the
Bla.brang monastery in Gansu. Most of the speakers don't even know the term.

I finally found this word in Wobzi ('Obzi, 俄热). lævrʊŋ is used as the house
name of my Wobzi informants. This house name enjoys some special privilege:
it means that there had been an reincarnated monk (sprulsku) born in the
family. This actually confirms the Bla.brang etymology of Lavrung, which is
the dwelling place of an outstanding person.

Even though the word is in the vocabulary and the etymology is clear,
Lavrung indicates nothing about the region or the language, so I think it
should not be the right name for the language.

"Lavrung" speakers have different names for their mother tongue. In
Guanyinqiao, they call it kərə-sji, and in Wobzi, it is called bot-sɣæi
(<bod skad). In Gyu Lha's dialect, as she mentions, it is called Rongskad.
None of these terms is suitable in my opinion, for they can designate any
language in the Rgyalrong world.

I would suggest "Khroskyabs (绰斯甲)". It is the old name of the center of the
"Lavrung" speaking region, and 观音桥镇 was called 绰斯甲县 from 1956 to 1959.
Today, the river that flows through Guanyinqiao is still officially called
绰斯甲河, and the most influential temple of the whole region is under the name
of 绰斯甲观音庙. This name is in accordance with the region concerned, and can be
easily written in Tibetan. My main informant, Rig 'Dus Lhamo, thinks it is
a proper name for the language as well.

So much for this, I am waiting to see other comments.



Kind regards,

Yunfan





2013/11/18 Hiroyuki Suzuki <minibutasan at gmail.com>

> Dear Guillaume, Lhundrop, and all the members,
>
> Thank Guillaume for proposing the terminology issue.
> I have just read the messages of Guillaume and Lhundrop.
> I have several adiitional comments to be shared with members.
>
> 1. I personally think we should avoid using the word "Hor" or "Horpa"
> alone.
> Because: 1) Hor is polysemic in Literary Tibetan. Please refer to the
> article
> of Takao Moriyasu (in Japanese with a French summary)
> http://repository.tufs.ac.jp/bitstream/10108/21656/1/jaas014001.pdf
> 2) as far as I know, Hor in this area is not an autonym but an exonym
> by Tibetan-speakers.
> Then, I totally agree with the use of "Tre-hor." Guillaume mention it
> is strange
> to use the spell tr-, but in the Tibetan documents, this word is
> consistently spelled
> as tre hor. Therefore, the spelling has no problem.
>
> It may be difficult to follow autonyms in all possible cases. But we
> had better avoid
> a use of terms which belong to a locally specific society (sociolect).
> My collaborators from Daofu do not understand the word "Risnyuskad,"
> neither
> do Lhundrop. Why does such a situation occur? It may be because we simply
> know
> partial things, with which we cannot decide anything important on proper
> names.
>
> 2. Personally, I do not like using Rtau/rTau for a language Tre-hor.
> Because
> the Tibetan-speaking people living in Daofu use a name [rtauskat] for
> their dialect.
> So, the use of Stau/sTau is much better to distinguish itself from
> Tibetan dialect.
>
> 3. Guillaume mentions "A transcription Stowu closer to pronunciation," but
> no data of mine (9 points from Daofu) include a pronunciation as /stowu/.
> Which dialect(s) use(s) this form?
> In order to avoid any egocentric-like ideas, we had better conduct an
> anthropological
> study on the identity of the speakers of Tre-hor language group, and
> if possible,
> produce a linguistic map of autonyms, exonyms and their identity before we
> make
> any decisions. It would be the most bothering but the best way to
> decide a proper name.
>
> 4. Concerning the spelling itself, I do not agree with the
> capitalisation rule of Guillaume.
> I use rTau rather than Rtau, sTau rather than Stau, or rGyalrong
> rather than Rgyalrong.
> Why do not we respect the letter system of Tibetan? The centre of a
> word should be
> the radical letter, not always the first letter. Of course, there are
> several ways of
> transliteration, but we should have a philosophy and background to
> transliterate
> Tibetan letters.
>
> 5. Lhundrop says Horske is better as a language name, but
> unfortunately I do not
> think so. A language name may include no specific words designating
> "language."
> If Horske were used, a strange expression such as "Horske language"
> might appear.
>
> Best regards,
> Hiroyuki SUZUKI
>
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