Name for the Western Rgyalrong languages

[云帆赖]

Dear Gyu Lha, thank you very much for your message.

I have definitely heard of Siyuewu and I would very much love to know more
about the dialect there.

So let's come back to the main purpose of this forum. Gyu Lha, do you think
Khroskyabs an appropriate name for your language?

Cordially,

Yunfan



2013/11/21 yina jody <abayina at gmail.com>

> My address is abayina at gmail.com
>
>
> 2013/11/21 yina jody <abayina at gmail.com>
>
>> Dear 云帆，
>>
>> I am Gyu Lha. Sorry your my delayed reply. I've been having some rough
>> times with my new college life, so things are a little stressful.
>>
>> Anyway, I of course heard about you from my professor Scott Delancey at
>> University of Oregon and I read your papers on Eri Township. I am a
>> freshman at the University of Oregon and I am adjusting to life in US as
>> well.
>>
>> I am not sure if you know, but I am from a village called Siyuewu that is
>> close to where you did your research. I am very excited to learn that
>> someone is documenting the Lavrung language.
>>
>> I am looking forward to hearing from you.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Gyu Lha
>>
>>
>> 2013/11/21 云帆赖 <canonnier at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Dear Guillaume and all,
>>>
>>> Thanks for supporting khroskyabs.
>>> khroskyabs is pronounced [tʂʰoscæ] or [tʂʰoscæv] by Wobzi speakers.
>>>
>>> Is G.yu Lha in the list? Guillaume, could you let me know her email
>>> address? I think it would be helpful for me to get in touch with her.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Yunfan
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/11/20 Guillaume Jacques <rgyalrongskad at gmail.com>
>>>
>>>> Dear Jesse and all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  pronounced by my Rilong consultant) [rəsɲilonba], [lonba] of course
>>>>> is valley, and [rəsɲi] is an alternative loconym for the valley that runs
>>>>> along the Xianshui River, so the Daofu valley. I am still working on the
>>>>> etymology, but that’s all I have for now. However, my consultant told me
>>>>> that she would never say [rəsɲiske].
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is an interesting information. I would really like to know where
>>>> this name comes from.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 2. Although the proper Tibetan spelling is rTau, sTau is easy to
>>>>> “derive” from the Tibetan spelling. Most Tibetans pronounce it as [tawu] or
>>>>> similarly. There are many herders in the grasslands that also pronounce it
>>>>> as [stawu]. Conversely, many Tibetans that I have talked to, some living
>>>>> inside Daofu and others not, have spelled rTau as sTau!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Yes, since the languages of the group clearly distinguish between rt-
>>>> and st-, if they pronounce this placename with a st-, the actual
>>>> pronunciation should have precedence over the standard Tibetan spelling.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe we can keep Stau for the language variety (mainly) spoken in Rtau
>>>> county; even if some villages outside of the county speak a similar
>>>> language, this is not a damaging problem. It is very difficult to come up
>>>> with non-ambiguous names that perfectly reflect the language situaiton. For
>>>> instance, the name Japhug is not the best solution for designating the
>>>> language I am studying. These people call themselves kɯrɯ and their
>>>> language kɯrɯskɤt, and the name Japhug tɕɤpʰɯ or tɕʰɤpʰɯ (both
>>>> pronunciatins are attested) designates the Gsarrdzong/Datshang area and
>>>> does not include Gdongbrgyad, whose real name is sɤŋo in Japhug. However,
>>>> people speaking Situ call them "Japhug" as a whole, and thus the name
>>>> Japhug is not that bad for designating specifically this area.
>>>>
>>>> For the subgroup of Rgyalrongic comprising Stau, I is important to take
>>>> time to as other native speakers of these languages whether 'Tre-Hor' is
>>>> fitting or whether it is appropriate; Horske is not specific enough in my
>>>> opinion (it could equally well designate the Horskad varieties in Tibet).
>>>> Another possibily would be Hor-Rgyalrong or Horpa Rgyalrongic.
>>>>
>>>> For Geshizha, the pronunciation appears to be rgefɕe, maybe reflecting
>>>> Dge.bshes instead of the spelling Dge.rtsa I have found elsewhere. This
>>>> language is clearly distinct from Stau, but I am not sure which name is
>>>> better.
>>>>
>>>> Khroskyabs seems to me a good alternative to Lavrung (what is the
>>>> pronunciation of this name in Wobzi?). I would like to know what Gyulha
>>>> thinks of it.
>>>>
>>>> For the Rgyalrong languages, there is little controversy, but I will
>>>> still take some time to discuss existing names. I think it is obvious to
>>>> everybody that Chinese-based place names like Chabao, Caodeng or Ribu are a
>>>> bad idea: they poorly reflect the local pronounciation (being transmitted
>>>> through the filter of Sichuan Mandarin plus Standard Mandarin plus English)
>>>> and are unable to represent the local consonant clusters.
>>>> Yet, for Situ I think that the Chinese name is the best solution,
>>>> because this language is spoken on a huge area and does not appear to have
>>>> a native or Tibetan name distinguish it as a whole from the northern
>>>> Rgyalrong languages. So Situ is perhaps the only choice we have to
>>>> encompass the whole area (the Tibetan equivalent would be rgyal bzhi or
>>>> something, but it is not a good idea to invent a name that nobody
>>>> understands). Japhug (and Tshobdun, Tawi and Zbu) people call the Situ
>>>> speakers "roŋba" to differentiate them from themselves (while calling
>>>> themselves "roŋwa"...), but this (as the autonym mentioned by Gyulha) is
>>>> not specific enough to serve as a language name, otherwise all languages of
>>>> the area could be called "rongba".
>>>>
>>>> For Japhug I provide a discussion above, and for Tshobdun I think there
>>>> is no problem.
>>>>
>>>> For Zbu, there are some issues. The Tibetan name of the area Rdzong'bur
>>>> seems to me to be made up/recent, while the local Rgyalrong name Zbu is
>>>> known by everybody. It is not a perfect name, as this language is spread
>>>> over Rdzong'bur and Tawi areas in Mbarkhams and neighbouring areas of
>>>> Ndzamthang, but the alternative proposed by Jackson Sun, the name ɕoʁu in
>>>> Tshobdun designating speakers of Zbu and latinized as "Showu", does not
>>>> seem very appealing to me. Maybe Zbu-Tawi would be better to include all
>>>> subvarieties?
>>>>
>>>> Concerning the capitalization, in former publications I used to write
>>>> rGyalrong and rTau etc but now I believe that this is useless and that we
>>>> should keep the standard capitalization: Zev is right abou that (and
>>>> several Tibetologists have independently pointed out that they did not like
>>>> this practice either).
>>>>
>>>> If some of you have contacts with Stau/Hor or Lavrung/Khroskyabs
>>>> speaking areas, don't hesitate to contact your friends, ask their opinion,
>>>> and post it on the list (you can even post the original message in the
>>>> local language in IPA transcription or in Tibetan translitteration - there
>>>> is no requirement to write exclusively in English on this list, all
>>>> languages of Western Sichuan are allowed).
>>>>
>>>> Guillaume
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Guillaume Jacques
>>>> CNRS (CRLAO) - INALCO
>>>> http://cnrs.academia.edu/GuillaumeJacques
>>>> http://himalco.hypotheses.org/
>>>> http://panchr.hypotheses.org/
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> མེས་རྒྱལ་གྱི་མེ་ཏོག།
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> G.yu Lha
>>
>
>
>
> --
> G.yu Lha
>
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-- 
མེས་རྒྱལ་གྱི་མེ་ཏོག།

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