Ukraine

[Max Pyziur]

At 08:05 AM 3/24/96 -0500, you wrote:
>With regard to Keith and Max's post (I agree with Max that I
>cannot imagine this being a long thread):
>
>1. English usage has varied since the 18th century. Note that
>the original English translation of Beauplan's 17th-c "Description
>d'Ukranie" was "A Description of Ukraine" (no article, 18th-c, London).

The construction which you are using is known as partatif; it implies a part
of something rather than a whole.  If it was a description of all of Ukraine
then it would be "de l'Ukranie".  Same thing if France was under
consideration -- "de France" is different from "de la France".

It's a subtle distinction about French, but one which has no ambiguities
about implication to a Francophone.

>Also, the French, obviously, lacked the article. Since
>"Little Russia" often was used in English texts after that, I wonder if
>there is consistent evidence for use of the article before this
>century.

If you are saying "in somecountry" then there is no article if the country
is feminine (still no one steps forward to cite the rule):
en France
en Ukranie

but
aux Etats-Unis (where aux is a+les)
au Japon (where au is a+le)
etc.,

But if you are faced with the sentence
"This is somecountry."  then it is:
C'est la France.
C'est l'Ukranie.
C'est les Etats-Unis.

etc.

[...]

>now making diplomatic appeals to foreign governments and the UN to
>standardize usage. I've spoken with the Ukrainian embassy about this and
>they've been so-so helpful. I recommend going to an emigre newspaper like

I'd give Dmytro Markov (if you mean the Ukrainian Embassy in DC) a call;
he's the most studied (it seems) as far as languages are concerned.  His
English is frighteningly good to the point I'd take him for a native speaker
from the Midwest.

>The Ukrainian Weekly or Svoboda to get more info on current
>political/diplomatic moves in the linguistic arena.

I'd stay away from the Ukrainian Weekly on this; they reflect too much of
the thinking of the ultra-nationalist Ukrainian-Americans who have some sort
of neanderthal axe to grind.

>Vs'oho najkrashchoho!

Vzayemno,


>Robert De Lossa
>Ukrainian Research Institute, Harvard University
>1583 Massachusetts Ave.
>Cambridge, MA 02138
>617/496-8768
>rdelossa at fas.harvard.edu

Max Pyziur
representing myself and others like me
pyz at panix.com