Batyushka vs. Svyashchennik

[Georges Adassovsky]

Answer to Ursula Doleschal : I don't agree with some of the following :

>"SVJASHCHENNIK" means "priest", that is,
>                1) "a priest in general", independent of the concrete
>religion (as a form of address is impossible!).

"svjashcennik" is used only for christian religions. For pagans, Russians
use "zhrets".

> Synonyms:
>"svjashchennosluzhitel'"(bookish),
>"pop" (familiar, a little vulgar or ill-mannered, often with a nuance of
>depreciating or disregarding)

May=19 be familiar, but not vulgar at all. A pope is the responsible of a
parish in a village, he may be married, he is the lowest in the church
hierarchy, as opposed to "monakh", who can't be married and has a higher
instruction.

>"duxovnoe lico"
>"sluzhitel' kul'ta" (independent of even mono-/polytheistic nature of the
>religion, a little disregading)

Disregarding because it is a sovietic term.

>"sluzhitel' bozhij" (in the speech of priests)

=3D God's servant.

>"pastyr'"(solemn, in the speech of priests)

Only used for protestant clergymen. Comes from the French "pasteur"


>"BATJUSHKA" means:
>        1) "father"  (obsolete, respectful) (is possible both in actantial
>positions and as a form of address);
> Synonyms:
>"otec" (in the meaning No.1) (neutral; but if it serv as a form of
>address,    >then it is too bookish, high or solemn)
>"papa" (colloquial; but if it serves as a form of address then neutral! )

"Otets" may be used only with the name of the addressee : "otets sergij",
"otets pavel" etc.. Otherwise its is "batjushka". To address a sveshcennik
with "otets Sergij" is the equivalent to tell "Sergej ivanovic" to an
ordinary man.
"papa" is not used to address a priest. Only from a child to his true father=
.

>        2) form of address to a male person (gentle, familiar, friendly) (a
>little obsolete or - if not obsolete, then a little jocular) (serves only
>as a form of address!)

In ancient Russia, social order was based on paternalism : God is the
father of all human beings, the Tsar is the father of all Russians, The
barine is the father of his peasants, the priest is the father for all
christians, etc...
Whence the term "batjushka", that applied to the Tsar, the barine, the
priest, and also to a true father when his child wished to be respectful.
It may have become jocular in soviet litterature, of course, but not in the
people speech.


>Synonyms:
>"golubchik" (but instead of "friendly" should be "tender"!) "otec" (in the
> meaning No.6) (but instead of "gentle, familiar, friendly" should be
>"popular"); "brat" (in the meaning  No.2)(but without "gentle") "bratec"
>(in the
>meaning No.2) (but without "gentle") "synok" (in the meaning No. 2)
>("popular", but besides, it serves only as form of address of an old
>person to a young man or to a boy)
>                                                         etc.

By no means any of this words is a synonym of "batjushka".

>        3a) "an Orthodox priest" (independent of title, so including
>diakons and bishops) (usually in the speech of a believers, with the nuance
>"respectfully").

Yes.

>        3b) form of address to an Orthodox priest (independent of title, so
>including diakons and bishops) (with the nuance "respectfully").

Yes

>Synonyms are possible only as exotisms (for example, when one quotes
>addresses >of the Catholic believers to Catholic priests):
>"gospodin kjure=81" (while describing French reality)
>"padre" (while describing Italian or Spanish reality)
>                                                etc.

Of course it is possible to address a Spanish clergyman with "padre", as it
is a Spanish word. But I can't imagine a Russian addressing a French
clergyman with "gospodin kjure" !

>        4)  (obsolete, popular) form of address "from bottom to up", that
>is, a "respectful" address (gentle,  a little friendly, but not "familiar")
>- to a landlord or to a "big" clerk from the side of a peasant or of a
>little" merchant) (can be a kind of apposition to the full name (first name
>+ father's name), for example "batjushka Arkadij Pavlych")

Yes, of course, one may want to put a paternalist function to someone who,
normally, doesn't have any, with the aim to show respect.
It is clear that the use you define in this (4) is in contradiction with
the synonyms you proposed in (2) : could you imagine someone speaking "from
bottom to up" tell : golubcik, bratets, or papa ?

Best regards,


Georges,
Tahiti.