Slovo o polku Igoreve

[James West]

I'll second the notion that the Slovo ought not to be compared with the
Ossianic material. The Ossianic poems aren't just written in 18th-c
English; they're written in 18th-c English modified to approximate what an
18th-c Scot with a Classical education and limited Gaelic thought an
ancient Gaelic epic might sound like if rendered into 18th-c English.
Sound artificial? You bet it does, and the modifications become even more
transparent when some of them give a little jolt of recognition to anyone
who's read Homer in the original ("may ... the ocean roll its white
waves..."). Then there's the issue of literary quality. Put it this way:
the line: "Oozy daughter of streams, that now art reared on high, speak to
the feeble, O stone!" has failed to win immortality in more than two
centuries of trying.

James West

On Tue, 5 May 1998, Robert Orr wrote:

> On reflection, I'm actually wondering if the Slovo ought to be compared
> with the Ossianic material at all.  The Slovo was written in a language
> that cannot be faulted as Medieval East Slavic.  The Ossianic poems on the
> other hand, are written in eighteenth century English, allegedly on the
> basis of Gaelic originals. Comparing Ossian and the Slovo may be in
> the order of a straight comparison of a poem by, e.g., Derzhavin with the
> Slovo.
>
> In that context, citing phrases, such as "and the trees bent down
> > in sorrow" for purposes of comparison with the Slovo really will not do.
> What was the Gaelic original of that phrase (if there was one)?
>
> It may be noted that Bardachd Gaidhlig (Gaelic Poetry 1550-1900), a
> comprehensive collection, contains no material by MacPherson, and in a
> 60-page introduction dismisses the Ossianic material with the comment
> "The range of modern poetry is quite unrestricted.  It has indeed produced
> nothing in the way of drama or epic, if we except the Ossianic poetry put
> together by James Macpherson: these forms were never practised by the
> Gael."
>
> Another, related point:
>
> In a previous posting I stated that the writers of certain other
> forgeries/fabrications roughly coeval to the Slovo "did not have too
> great a knowledge of the idiom".  I had James Macpherson and Ossian in
> mind.  What is not generally known is that Macpherson's Gaelic
> wasn't actually that good.  There's a tale that he visited one of the old
> poets of Uist, John MacCodrum, and asked him:
> Am bheil dad agaibh air na Feinne? - "Do you have anything on the Fiann?"
> - or so he thought, but the Gaelic idiom actually means "Do the Fiann owe
> you anything?", which he ought to have known.
>
> MacCodrum, well-known as a ready wit, replied "Chan 'eil, agus ged a
> bhiodh cha ruig a leas iarraidh a nis" - "No, and if they did, it wouldn't
> be worth asking for it now."
>
> Maybe this was why Macpherson never let people see the original Ossians.
>
> Is the Slovo remotely in the same league?
>
> I would beg the indulgence of one SEELANZHANKA, to whom I have already
> sent this one off list!
>
> On Mon, 4 May 1998, Katya Hirvasaho wrote:
>
> > I want to express my appreciation to Markus Osterrieder for the valuable
> > information on research casting doubt on the authenticity of _Slovo o polku
> > Igoreve_.. I have studied the early romantic period, particularly Russian
> > (and European) Ossianism, and the ideological and stylistic similarities
> > between _Slovo_ and _Ossian_ can hardly be considered minor (Nabokov points
> > out some of the minor "co-incidences" in his translation of _Slovo_).  I
> > doubt that many people have read _The Poems of Ossian_, but it might be
> > worthwhile for anyone who is arguing about _Slovo o polku Igoreve_, whether
> > pro or con authenticity, to at least take a peek of the first volume,
> > "Fingal," and witness for themselves the same figurative language,
> > animistic world view, personification of nature ("and the trees bent down
> > in sorrow"), not to mention the concept of nation and of the exulted role
> > of the bard found in _Ossian_ and which was typical to the latter part of
> > the 18th C.  You will even find Yaroslavna's (Malvina's) lament in
> > _Ossian_!
> >
> > Katya Hirvasaho
> >
>