From eedmondson at nybooks.com Tue Aug 1 18:37:03 2000 From: eedmondson at nybooks.com (Elizabeth Edmondson) Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2000 14:37:03 EDT Subject: Russian literature from New York Review Books Message-ID: >From time to time I post messages to this list from people who are not subscribers yet have information of interest to SEELANGS list members. If you'd like to reply, please do so directly to the sender. This is such a post. - Alex, list owner of SEELANGS ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----------------------------Original message---------------------------- 1. _Virgin Soil_, Ivan Turgenev This September, New York Review Books is bringing Turgenev's _Virgin Soil_ back into print for the first time in nearly twenty years. This rich and complex book, at once a love story, a devastating, and bitterly funny, social satire, and, perhaps most movingly of all, a heartfelt celebration of the immense beauty of the Russian countryside, is a tragic masterpiece in which one of the world¹s finest novelists confronts the enduring question of the place of happiness in a political world. 2. _The Fierce and Beautiful World_, Andrei Platonov This collection of Platonov's short fiction brings together seven works drawn from the whole of his career. It includes the harrowing, and long unavailable, novella Dzahn, in which a young man returns to his Asian birthplace to find his people deprived not only of food and dwelling, but of memory and speech, and "The Potudan River," Platonov's most celebrated story. 3. _Peasants and Other Stories_, Anton Chekhov This powerful and revealing selection from Chekhov's final works, made by the legendary American critic Edmund Wilson, offers stories of novelistic richness and complexity, published in the only paperback edition to present them in the order in which they were written. 4. _Prison Memoirs of an Anarchist_, Alexander Berkman In 1892, Alexander Berkman, Russian emigre, anarchist, and lover of Emma Goldman, attempted--unsuccessfully--to assassinate industrialist Henry Clay Frick. Captured and sentenced to serve a prison term of twenty-two years, Berkman struggled to make sense of the shadowy and brutalized world of the prison--one that hardly conformed to revolutionary expectation. For more information about these and other New York Review Books, please check out our website at www.nybooks.com or call 212-333-7900 to request a catalog. Elizabeth Edmondson eedmondson at nybooks.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From holmsted at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Thu Aug 3 15:20:19 2000 From: holmsted at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Hugh Olmsted) Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 15:20:19 +0000 Subject: Bibliography for women's studies Message-ID: To Dorothea Gieselman and the Seelangovtsy list In response to Dorothea's questions about bibliographic sources for women's studies, here are some reference works which may be useful. The focus of this list is on Russia, not all Slavic or East- European or Eurasian nations: publications covering Eastern / Central / Southern Europe are omitted unless their coverage includes Medieval Rus', the Russian Empire, USSR, and/or the Russian Federation. Materials denoted are of various generations and viewpoints, including some that are quite traditionalist. Entries are listed under broad subject headings, with subarrangement chronologically by date of coverage or publication. This list has been extracted and reformatted from a larger general database of reference works for Russian studies (currently ca. 6000 records), which is being prepared for publication and possible internet accessability. ?2000, H.M. Olmsted I will be grateful for comments and suggestions. Special thanks to June Pachuta Farris at the Univ. of Chicago for current information about the bibliographic efforts of AWSS, the Association of Women in Slavic Studies (see entries under Farris J.P., Livezeanu I., and Zirin M. in the GENERAL BIBLIOGRAPHY section below). Hugh Olmsted ************************************************** GENERAL REFERENCE SOURCES : BIOGRAPHY 1. Bezelianskii, Iurii N. \ Vera, Nadezhda, Liubov'. . . : zhenskie portrety. M. : Raduga, 1998. 480 p. Short biographies of 25 prominent 19th- and 20th- century women. Partial contents:-- Zinaida Volkonskaia.-- Karolina Soban'skaia.-- Anna Kern.-- Polina Viardo.-- Elena Blavatskaia.-- Apollinariia Suslova.-- Sof'ia Kovalevskaia.-- Mariia Savina.-- Vera Komissarzhevskaia.-- Mariia Andreeva.-- Zinaida Gippius.-- Mirra Lokhvitskaia.-- Aleksandra Kollontai.-- Matil'da Kshesinskaia.-- Inessa Armand.-- Aisedora Dunkan.-- Alla Nazimova.-- Liubov' Mendeleeva.-- Ida Rubinshtein.-- Ol'ga Glebova- Sudeikina.-- Natal'ia Krandievskaia.-- Lili Brik.-- Zinaida Raikh.-- Larisa Reisner.-- Liubov' Orlova. GENERAL REFERENCE SOURCES : DIRECTORIES & GUIDES TO GOODS & SERVICES 2. Kaplun, F. V. \ Vsia Moskva : dlia vas, zhenshchiny : informatsionno-reklamnyi spravochnik = All Moscow. M. : "Vsia Moskva", 1993. 188 p. GENERAL REFERENCE SOURCES : DIRECTORIES & GUIDES TO ORGANIZATIONS, MEDIA, ETC. 3. Zueva, L. \ Zhenskaia pressa i organizatsii Rossii / L. Zueva, A. Suetnov. M. : [s.n.], Arkhiv netraditsionnoi pechati, 1995. 82 p. 4. Abubikirova, N. I. \ Zhenskie nepravitel'stvennye organizatsii Rossii i SNG M.: Izd-vo "Eslan", 1998. 365 p. Also issued in parallel English- language ed.: Directory of women's non- governmental organizations in Russia & the NIS. M.: Aslan Publishers, 1998. 352 p. 5. Abubikirova, N. I. \ Directory of women's non- governmental organizations in Russia & the NIS. M.: Aslan Publishers, 1998. 352 3p. Also issued in parallel Russian- language ed.: Zhenskie nepravitel'stvennye organizatsii Rossii i SNG M.: Izd-vo "Eslan", 1998. 365 p. GENERAL REFERENCE SOURCES: CHRONOLOGY 6. Khasbulatova, Ol'ga Anatol'evna \ Kratkaia khronologiia zhenskogo dvizheniia v Rossii, 1859- 1917. In: Zhenshchiny i rossiiskoe obshchestvo : nauchno- istoricheskii aspekt : mezhvuzovskii sbornik nauchnykh trudov / redkol., O.A. Khasbulatova (otv. red.) ... [et al.]. Ivanovo : Ivanovskii gos. univ., 1995. 111 p., p. 4-22. GENERAL REFERENCE SOURCES: ENCYCLOPEDIAS 7. Molokova (Budagova), Z. E. \ Sovremennaia zhenshchina : entsiklopedicheskii spravochnik / Z.E. Molokova, A.L. Arisian. M. : IPCh "Glas", 1994. 443 p. 8. Molokova (Budagova), Z. E. \ Sovremennaia zhenshchina : entsiklopedicheskii spravochnik / pod red. Molokovoi (Budagovoi) Z.E. M. : Glas, 1999. 280 p. Earlier ed.: Sovremennaia zhenshchina : entsiklopedicheskii spravochnik / Z.E. Molokova, A.L. Arisian. M. : IPCh "Glas", 1994. 443 p. GENERAL REFERENCE SOURCES: HISTORIOGRAPHY 9. Pushkareva, Natal'ia L'vovna \ Otechestvennaia istoriografiia voprosa o polozhenii zhenshchin na Rusi X XV vv. In: Obshchestvenno-politicheskoe razvitie feodal'noi Rossii : sbornik statei / redkol. A.A. Preobrazhenskii (otv. red.), A.V. Demkin. M. : AN SSSR, In-t istorii SSSR, 1985, p. 193-208. GENERAL BIBLIOGRAPHY 10. Bibliographical note: select bibliography of nineteenth-century Russian women's autobiographies. \ In: Russia through women's eyes : autobiographies from Tsarist Russia / ed. by Toby W. Clyman and Judith Vowles. New Haven : Yale University Press, c1996. 393 p. (Russian literature and thought), p. 11. Manning, Roberta T. \ Bibliography of works in English on women in Russia and the Soviet Union. Slavic and European Education Review, 1979-1, p. 31-62. 12. Yedlin, Tova \ Selected bibliography [on Women in Eastern Europe and the USSR]. In her: Women in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union , NY : Praeger, 1980, p. 270-287. 13. Yedlin, Tova \ Women in Russia and the Soviet Union, December 1984 . Ottawa: Carleton Univ., 1985. 80 p. (Institute of Soviet and East European Studies, Bibliography no. 3) 14. Zirin, Mary \ Slavic women's studies newsletter [typescript]. No. 1, Dec. 1986- Altadena, CA.: 1986- 15. Zirin, Mary \ Current bibliography. In: Women East- West: The Newsletter of the Association of Women in Slavic Studies (AWSS), Running bibliographic section in Newsletter, issued 5 times yearly. Covers Women's studies topics in the humanities and social sciences for Eastern / Central / Southern Europe and the Former USSR. Compiler varies: for 1987-1988, Mary Zirin; from 1999- , June Pachuta Farris. A small selection is displayed on the Association's website, at URL: http://lrc2.swarthmore.edu/slavic/AWSS/bibliog.html, or http://130.58.154.91/slavic/AWSS/bibliog.html. A revised collation of the bibliographies from the entire period is under preparation for publication in 2 vols. by M.E. Sharpe; announced publication date, 2001. 16. Schweizerhof, Barbara \ Aktuelle russischsprachige Veroffentlichungen zu Frauen und Frauenforschung in Russland bzw. der Sowjetunion : bibliographische Hinweise fur die Jahre 1987-1993 = Aktual'nye russko-iazychnye publikatsii o zhenshchinakh i zhenskom voprose v Rossii i v Sovetskom Soiuze : bibliograficheskie ukazaniia za 1987-1993 gg. = Recent Russian-language publications on women and women's studies in Russia and the Soviet Union : bibliographical notes for 1987-1993 / zus. von Barbara Schweizerhof ; wissenschaftliche Beratung, Krisztina Manicke-Gyongy ; hrsg. von Uta Grabmuller. Berlin : Harrassowitz, 1995. xvi, 183 p. (Bibliographische Mitteilungen des Osteuropa-Instituts an der Freien Universitat Berlin ; 28) 17. Hyer, Janet \ Annotated bibliography: women in the Soviet Union. In: Canadian woman studies, v. 10 (1989):4, p. 99-100. 18. Ruthchild, Rochelle \ Women in Russia and the Soviet Union : an annotated bibliography . NY : G.K. Hall ; Toronto : Maxwell Macmillan Canada ; NY : Maxwell Macmillan International, c1993. 203 p. 19. Hurych, J. \ Women in Russia of the 1990s: selected annotated bibliography / Hurych J., Goldstein B. In: Behavioral & Social Sciences Librarian, 14 (1995), no. 1, p. 43-60. 20. Livezeanu, Irina \ AWSS Bibliography: Women and Gender in Central and Eastern Europe : online bibliography / Association of Women in Slavic Studies (AWSS) Research Committee, chair Irina Livezeanu. Web site. URL: http://lrc2.swarthmore.edu/slavic/AWSS/bibliog.html, or http://130.58.154.91/slavic/AWSS/bibliog.html A selection from the "Current Bibliography" serially issued in "Women East-West: The Newsletter of the Association of Women in Slavic Studies," 1987-2000, compiled by Mary Zirin (1987-1998) and June Pachuta Ferris (1999- ). Note on site as of 8/3/2000: "This resource is currently under construction. The [bibliographic material shown] is an early draft of the "General" section of the bibliography of work on Central and East European women now being compiled under the auspices of the AWSS Research Committee, chaired by Irina Livezeanu at the University of Pittsburgh. Comments and suggestions are welcome." 21. Farris, June Pachuta \ [Bibliography of women's studies for East, Central and Southern Europe and the Former Soviet Union] / comp. and ed. by June Pachuta Farris, Irina Livezeanu, Christine Worobec, and Mary Zirin. Armonk, NY : M.E. Sharpe, [2001]. 2 v. Announced for publication. Title to be determined. Based primarily upon the "Current Bibliography" published serially in "Women East-West: The Newsletter of the Association of Women in Slavic Studies," 1987-2000, compiled by Mary Zirin (1987-1998) and June Pachuta Ferris (1999- ) Contents:-- v. 1. Russia & the countries of the former Soviet Union.-- v. 2. Eastern Europe. WOMEN AND LITERATURE : BIOBIBLIOGRAPHY 22. Ledkovsky, Marina \ Dictionary of Russian women writers / ed. by Marina Ledkovsky, Charlotte Rosenthal, Mary Zirin. Westport, CT : Greenwood Press, 1994. xli, 869 p. WOMEN AND LITERATURE: BIBLIOGRAPHY 23. Golitsyn, Nikolai Nikolaevich, kniaz' \ Bibliograficheskii slovar' russkikh pisatel'nits: nashi pisatel'nitsy. SPb. : 1889. 308 p. Also reprint ed.: Leipzig : 1974, together with reprint of Ponomarev S.I., Nashi pisatel'nitsy. SPb.: Imp. Akademii nauk, 1891. 24. Ponomarev, Stepan Ivanovich \ Nashi pisatel'nitsy. SPb.: Imp. Akademii nauk, 1891. 78 p. (SORIaS, t. LII, no. 7) Reprinted 1974 (1978) together with reprint of N.N. Golitsyn, Bibliograficheskii slovar' russkikh pisatel'nits: Leipzig : Zentralantiquariat der DDR, 1974. 308, 78 p. 25. Golitsyn, Nikolai Nikolaevich, kniaz' \ Bibliograficheskii slovar' russkikh pisatel'nits / Kniazia N.N. Golitsyna. Nashi pisatel'nitsy / S.I. Ponomareva. Leipzig : Zentralantiquariat der DDR, 1974. 308, 78 p. Reprint of: N.N. Golitsyn, Bibliograficheskii slovar' russkikh pisatel'nits. SPb. : Tip. V.S. Balasheva, 1889. vi, 308 p.; and: S.I. Ponomarev, Nashi pisatel'nitsy. SPb.: Imp. Akademii nauk, 1891. 78 p. (SORIaS, t. LII, no. 7) Reissued in 1978. 26. Parnell, Christina \ Russische Prosaautorinnen, 1975-1996 : Bibliographie russischsprachiger Zeitschriftenveroffentlichungen / Christina Parnell, Carolin Heyder. Frankfurt am Main ; NY : P. Lang, c1997. 212 p. 27. Thomson, S. M. \ Selective bibliography. In: Women's studies in Russian literature /Barbara Heldt. NY : MLA, 1982:155-157. 28. Nemec Ignashev, Diane \ Women and writing in Russia and the USSR : a bibliography of English- language sources. NY : Garland Pub., 1992. xiii, 328 p. (Garland reference library of the humanities ; vol. 1280) 29. Chizhova, Irina Borisovna \ Khoziaiki literaturnykh salonov Peterburga pervoi poloviny XIX v. SPb. : Izd- vo "Serdtse", 1993. 117 p. WOMEN IN THEATRE : BIOGRAPHY 30. Schuler, Catherine \ Women in Russian theatre : the actress in the Silver Age. London ; NY : Routledge, 1996. 260 p. (Gender in performance) WOMEN IN HISTORY, GOVERNMENT, POLITICS : BIBLIOGRAPHY & HISTORIOGRAPHY 31. Pushkareva, Natal'ia L'vovna \ Zhenshchina v russkoi istorii : zarubezhnaia istoriografiia, XIX- XX vv. In: In: Zhenshchiny Rossii i Evropy na poroge novogo vremeni / N.L. Pushkareva. M. : In- t etnologii i antropologii im. N.N. Miklukho- Maklaia RAN, 1996. 285 p. (Biblioteka rossiiskogo etnografa), p. 25-62, notes on p. 199-211. 32. Hurych, J. \ Women in Russian and Soviet history: works published in the early 1990s: selected bibliography / Hurych J., Rupp R., Goldstein B. In: Behavioral & Social Sciences Librarian, 15 (1997), no. 2, p. 21-35. WOMEN IN HISTORY, GOVERNMENT, POLITICS : BIOGRAPHY 33. Pavliuchenko, Eleonora Aleksandrovna \ V dobrovol'nom izgnanii: o zhenakh i sestrakh dekabristov / E.A. Pavliuchenko ; otv. red. S.V. Mironenko. Izd. 4., ispr. i dop. M. : "Nauka", 1986. 157 p. (Seriia "Stranitsy istorii nashei Rodiny") Earlier ed. M.: Nauka, 1976. 159 p. (Seriia Istoriia nashei Rodiny) 34. Vasil'eva, Larisa Nikolaevna \ Kremlevskie zheny : fakty, vospominaniia, dokumenty, slukhi, legendy i vzgliad avtora. M. : Vagrius : Novosti ; [United States] : Distributed by East View Publications, 1992. 542 p. Also published: M. : "Vagrius" : Smolensk : "Rusich", 1994. 462, [2] p., [32] p. (Afrodita) 35. Vasil'eva, Larisa Nikolaevna \ Kremlin wives / Larissa Vasilieva ; translated from the Russian by Cathy Porter. 1st North American ed. NY : Arcade, c1994. xviii, 251 p. Translation of the orig, Rus. ed.: Kremlevskie zheny. M. : Vagrius : Novosti ; [United States] : Distrib. by East View Publications, 1992. 542 p. 36. Bunitskii, O. V. \ Zhenshchiny- terroristki v Rossii / sost., vstup. stat'ia i prim. O.V. Bunitskogo. Rostov-na-Donu : Feniks, 1996. 636 p. 37. Kraskova, Valentina \ Kremlevskie nevesty. Minsk : Literatura ; Ann Arbor : distributed by ATC Books International, Inc., 1997. 479 p. 38. Kraskova, Valentina \ Kremlevskie liubovnitsy. Minsk : Literatura, 1998. 477 p. 39. Kraskova, Valentina \ Kremlevskie teshchi . Minsk : Sovremennyi literator, 1999. 446 p. WOMEN IN RELIGION : BIOGRAPHY 40. Meehan, Brenda \ Holy women of Russia : the lives of five Orthodox women offer spiritual guidance for today. San Francisco : HarperSanFrancisco, c1993. x, 182 p. Lives of: Margarita Tuchkova, Anastasiia Logacheva, Matrona Naumovna Popova , Mother Angelina, Abbess Taisiia. 41. Taisiia, monakhinia \ Russkoe pravoslavnoe zhenskoe monashestvo XVIII- XX vv. / sost. monakhinia Taisiia. M. : Izd. Sviato-Troitskoi Sergievoi Lavry, 1992. 287 p. SOCIAL SCIENCES SOURCES : STATISTICS 42. Zhenshchiny i deti v SSSR; statisticheskii sbornik. \ M. : Gosstatizdat, 1961. 229 p. 43. Women and children in the USSR; brief statistical returns. \ M. : Foreign Languages Pub. House, 1963. 195 p. Translation of: Zhenshchiny i deti v SSSR. 44. Zhenshchiny v SSSR \ / Tsentral'noe statisticheskoe upravlenie SSSR. M. : Finansy i statistika, 1964- [1991+?] v. Women in the Soviet Union; statistical returns. \ M. : Progress Publishers, 1970. 54 p. Translated from the Russian. 45. Zhenshchiny i deti v SSSR : statisticheskii sbornik \ / redkomissiia Gur'ev V.I. (predsedatel') ...[et al.]. M. : Finansy i statistika, 1985. 159 p. Usloviia truda i byta zhenshchin : statisticheskii sbornik. M. : Respublikanskii informatsionno-izdatel'skii tsentr Goskomstata Rossii, 1992. 511 p. 46. Lentini, Peter \ Statistical data on women in the USSR / Peter Lentini. Glasgow : Lorton House, c1994. 29 p. (Lorton papers; 10) 47. Zhenshchiny Rossii : statisticheskii sbornik. \ M. : Goskomstat, 1995. 97 p. Statistics for basic socio- economic indicators, employment, demography, motherhood & childhood, living conditions, education, women's and children's crime and delinquency for the period 1970 through the first half of 1995. SOCIAL SCIENCES SOURCES : LEGAL ASPECTS : FAMILY & LABOR LAW 48. Mishle, Nadezhda Aleksandrovna \ Iuridicheskii spravochnik : zhenshchiny i deti : semeinoe pravo, trudovoe pravo, sotsial'nye l'goty / [avtor- sost., Mishle Nadezhda Aleksandrovna]. M. : "Filin"", 1998. 483 p. SOCIAL SCIENCES SOURCES : LEGAL ASPECTS : HIGH-RISK, ILLEGAL, AND/OR EXPLOITATIVE TRADES: PROSTITUTION 49. Prostitutki Moskvy [iurid. spravochnik] \ / red. E. Maksimovskii. M. : "Iustitsiia-M", 1997. 349 p., [62] pages of plates. (Biblioteka sledovatelia) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Sat Aug 5 20:42:41 2000 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 21:42:41 +0100 Subject: Russian literature from New York Review Books Message-ID: Dear all, Elizabeth Edmondson ( eedmondson at nybooks.com) recently posted the following message on behalf of New York Review Books: "The Fierce and Beautiful World_, Andrei Platonov This collection of Platonov's short fiction brings together seven works drawn from the whole of his career. It includes the harrowing, and long unavailable, novella Dzahn, in which a young man returns to his Asian birthplace to find his people deprived not only of food and dwelling, but of memory and speech, and "The Potudan River," Platonov's most celebrated story." I want to point out that this volume is a reissue, entirely unrevised, of translations first published around 1970. Joseph Barnes was using a heavily censored text of Dzhan, about four/fifths the length of the complete text. There is barely a page without significant omissions, and in most cases - unsurprisingly - it is the most interesting and unusual passages that have been omitted. Together with Eric Naiman, Nadya Prigova, and Jane Chamberlain and Elizabeth Chandler I am at present working on a translation of the complete text - to be published by Harvill in 2001 or 2002. As for the quality of Barnes's translations, I would like to ask readers to compare his translations of "The Potudan River" and "The Return" with those by Angela Livingstone, myself and Elizabeth Chandler in THE RETURN (Harvill Press, distributed in USA by Farrar, Strauss and Giroux). Yours, Robert Chandler ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU Mon Aug 7 01:37:25 2000 From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU) Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 21:37:25 -0400 Subject: South Slavic in K-12? Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Is any South Slavic language (Slovenian/Slovene, Croatian, Bosnian, Serbian, Montenegrin, Serbo-Croatian, Macedonian, Bulgarian) taught in any kindergarten, elementary (grade) school, middle (junior high) school, or high (secondary) school in the U.S or Canada? I would be grateful for all information you can give me. Please don't reply to the list but write directly to ewb2 at cornell.edu - Thank you in advance, Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics Department of Linguistics Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ilon at UT.EE Mon Aug 7 07:02:14 2000 From: ilon at UT.EE (Ilon Fraiman) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 10:02:14 +0300 Subject: ruthenia news Message-ID: Dobryj den'. Redakcija "Rutenii" v polnom sostave uezzhaet na Tynjanovskie chtenija v Rezekne (http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-08-07#288971), gde vstretitsja s nekotorymi podpischikami lista. Dlja ostal'nyh - korotko perechislju poslednie publikacii nashego sajta (Nekotorye soobschenie, ne popavshie v list, vy mozhete obnaruzhit', kak vsegda v Arhive - http://www.ruthenia.ru/archiv.html, ili, esli vospol'zuetes' poiskom http://www.ruthenia.ru/search.html). Konferencii: http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-07-29#286751 "Rossijskaja utopija ]pohi Prosveschenija i tradicii mirovogo utopizma" (Sankt-Peterburg, 27-29 ijulja) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/286731.html Programma konferencii http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-07-29#266216 VI-j vsemirnyj kongress v Tampere http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-08-03#234391 Letnja'a shkola "Kommunikativnye strategii kul'tury" (Novosibirsk, 3-20 avgusta) Novaja literatura: http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-07-27#276195 http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-07-27#276218 http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-08-07#289075 Iz novyh postuplenij v ]lektronnyj katalog Rossijskoj gosudarstvennoj biblioteki (s 3 po 21ijulja) http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-07-27#276312 Knigi i zhurnal po vostochnomu hristianstvu i vizantinistike, pereizdanie klassicheskogo truda Andre Grabara http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-07-27#276332 Kniga K. Faradzheva i dve antologii http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-08-07#289092 Tret'e izdanie klassicheskoj knizhki Rudneva pro Vinni-Puha i uchebnoe posobie po russkomu postmodernizmu: Internet: http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-08-07#288951 Informacija o novom knizhnom magazine v internete http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/288931.html O nem zhe - davno obeschannaja "Ssylka nedeli" - "Zoloto na golubom" http://www.ruthenia.ru/nemzer/ Mnogo novyh "nemzeresok" Vozobnovlena publikacija statej iz Tjutchevskogo sbornika II: http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/268851.html T. Dinesman. Tjutchev v Mjunhene (K istorii diplomaticheskoj kar'ery) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/288319.html F. I. Tjutchev. Pis'mo doktoru Kol'bu, redaktoru "Vseobschej gazety" <Россия и Германия> http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/288735.html A. Ospovat. }lementy politicheskoj mifologii Tjutcheva (Kommentarij k stat'e 1844 g.) O stat'jah mozhno vyskazat' svoi soobrazhenija v razdele "Diskussii": http://www.ruthenia.ru/board/board.phtml Poezd cherez chas. Vsego horoshego. Do ponedel'nika! Ilon Fraiman staff at ruthenia.ru http://www.ruthenia.ru/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p.barta at SURREY.AC.UK Mon Aug 7 13:06:15 2000 From: p.barta at SURREY.AC.UK (Dr Peter I. Barta) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 14:06:15 +0100 Subject: BASEES CONFERENCE-Cambridge UK Message-ID: CALL FOR PAPERS Abstracts (100 words) are invited for 20-minute papers in LITERATURE, WOMEN'S STUDIES, GENDER STUDIES, FILM AND MEDIA STUDIES, CULTURAL STUDIES to be given at the annual convention of the British Association of Slavonic and East European Studies at Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge University (UK) between 6-9 April 2001. Send abstract by 15 October 2000 to PETER I. BARTA (p.barta at surrey.ac.uk) at the Dept. of Linguistic and International Studies, University of Surrey, Guildford, Surrey GU2 5XH, England Peter I. Barta Professor of Russian and Cultural Studies Head, Russian Studies University of Surrey Guildford GU2 5XH England Tel: (01483) 300800 ext 2822 e-mail: p.barta at surrey.ac.uk fax: (01483)259527 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From shura at SK.SYMPATICO.CA Mon Aug 7 17:33:45 2000 From: shura at SK.SYMPATICO.CA (Alexandra Popoff) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:33:45 -0600 Subject: BASEES CONFERENCE-Cambridge UK Message-ID: Dear Dr. Barta: I am a Sessional lecturer at the University of Saskatchewan, Canada, where I have taught a variety of classes in Russian language, culture, civilization, and literature from 1993 till the present. I have a Moscow BA, Toronto MA, and Saskatchewan MA. I delivered my papers at a number of conferences, including AATSEEL. I want to present a paper in cultural studies at your conference; however, I doubt that the U of S will provide me with a travel allowance to go to Cambridge. Do you have a conference assistance fund for presenters? I would like to have this point clarified before sending you an abstract. Sincerely, Prof. Alexandra Popoff Sessional Lecturer University of Saskatchewan Canada "Dr Peter I. Barta" wrote: > CALL FOR PAPERS > > Abstracts (100 words) are invited for 20-minute > papers in LITERATURE, WOMEN'S STUDIES, GENDER > STUDIES, FILM AND MEDIA STUDIES, CULTURAL STUDIES to > be given at the annual convention of the British > Association of Slavonic and East European Studies at > Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge University (UK) between > 6-9 April 2001. Send abstract by 15 October 2000 to > PETER I. BARTA (p.barta at surrey.ac.uk) at the Dept. of > Linguistic and International Studies, University of > Surrey, Guildford, Surrey GU2 5XH, England > Peter I. Barta > Professor of Russian and Cultural Studies > Head, Russian Studies > University of Surrey > Guildford GU2 5XH > England > Tel: (01483) 300800 ext 2822 > e-mail: p.barta at surrey.ac.uk > fax: (01483)259527 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From delle at TACONIC.NET Mon Aug 7 19:41:41 2000 From: delle at TACONIC.NET (Mary Delle LeBeau) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 15:41:41 -0400 Subject: Poet Yuri Levitanski Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, Can anyone suggest how I might go about getting a book of Levitanski's poems? I've tried a number of bookstores in this country and others. I'm not sure where to turn to next. Thank you in advance for your assistance. All the best, Mary Delle LeBeau ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From edraitse at SHIVA.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU Tue Aug 8 00:58:22 2000 From: edraitse at SHIVA.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU (edraitse@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu) Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 20:58:22 -0400 Subject: women in eastern europe Message-ID: Dear Professor Gieselman: I'd like to bring to your attention my new book entitled (St. Martin's Press, 1999). It is an anthropological, sociological, and psychological study of contemporary Russian culture of gender relationship, as it is reflected in folk humor. Best, Emil Draitser Original Message: ----------------- From: Dorothea Gieselmann gieseld at UNI-MUENSTER.DE Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 12:40:58 +0200 Subject: women in eastern europe Hi everybody! I am doing research on a bibliography on women in Eastern Europe. My aim is to produce a bibliography that gives hints on fiels of research done (when, in what country, what topics were en vogue etc.?). Personally I know the fields history and literature in Russia best. That is why I am especially in search of books or articles referring to these fiels but concerning a) Poland, b) the Slavic countries of Eastern and Central Eastern Europe as a whole, c) Czech and Slovak Republics and their predecessors, d) other Slavic countries/regions. Other fields I'd like to cite titles from are sociology, political science, perhaps economy, law and the arts, linguistics, everything concerning gender studies. I am also interested in periodicals, newsletters and the like. I'm very grateful for your help!!!! Dorothea Gieselmann, Muenster University, Germany ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Estrellas at HOME.IVM.DE Wed Aug 9 16:26:24 2000 From: Estrellas at HOME.IVM.DE (Dieter.Stern) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 18:26:24 +0200 Subject: Query abuot Russian foreigner talk Message-ID: Dear all I am looking for works of fiction where extensive use of Russian non-native speech is made, like e.g. Arsenyev's 'Dersu Uzala' or 'Po ussuriiskomu kraiu'. Can any one help me? Please, reply off-list. Sincerely Dieter Stern Dr. Dieter Stern home: Patristische Kommission Universitaet Bonn Lennestr. 1 Argelanderstr. 78 D-53113 Bonn D-53115 Bonn 0049-228-735039 0049-228-261192 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Wed Aug 9 16:51:36 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 17:51:36 +0100 Subject: Query abuot Russian foreigner talk Message-ID: Evtushenko's poem Svad'by has one line! The context is more interesting here - some versions of the poem omit or change it, others keep it, for political reasons. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Dieter.Stern To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Query abuot Russian foreigner talk Date: 09 August 2000 17:26 Dear all I am looking for works of fiction where extensive use of Russian non-native speech is made, like e.g. Arsenyev's 'Dersu Uzala' or 'Po ussuriiskomu kraiu'. Can any one help me? Please, reply off-list. Sincerely Dieter Stern Dr. Dieter Stern home: Patristische Kommission Universitaet Bonn Lennestr. 1 Argelanderstr. 78 D-53113 Bonn D-53115 Bonn 0049-228-735039 0049-228-261192 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Wed Aug 9 17:27:43 2000 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 13:27:43 -0400 Subject: humor, Orthodoxy Message-ID: For fun summer reading, I recommend Gary Saul Morson's hilarious new book (advertised in the AATSEEL directory), "Quiet Flows the Vodka or When Pushkin Comes to Shove" (written under 2 pseudonyms). It's full of parodies of, would you believe, Hilarion's Sermon on Law and Grace, and other chefs d'oeuvres of Russian literature, plus other tidbits. Note: I have no relationship to Prof. Morson or his publisher! While I'm at it, for those of you interested in Russian Orthodoxy, I strongly recommend Anthony Ugolnik's "The Illuminated Icon," l989 (?). Ugolnik is an Orthodox priest, a Vietnam vet (he was a medic there) and an professor of English. He wrote the book for American Christians to increase their understanding of Orthodoxy. As an American of Russian background, he is in a unique position to explain that religion to American, and I found the book very interesting. Enjoy! Emily Tall ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Wed Aug 9 19:40:17 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 14:40:17 -0500 Subject: More humor Message-ID: I got this from one of my friends. She got it from someone else. No name of the author was inticated but judging by the spelling, the stuff was written by a Brit. Those who have been to Russia recently might find it interesting and funny. Those who have not, may find it scary. But this is only humor. Enjoy! YOU KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN TO RUSSIA TOO LONG WHEN: * You don't think things are that bad right now. * You have to think twice about throwing away an empty instant coffee jar. * You save table scraps for the cats living in the courtyard. * When crossing the street, you sprint. * You let the telephone ring at least 4 times before you pick it up because it is probably a mis-connection or electric fault. * You hear the radio say it is zero degrees outside and you think it is a nice day for a change. * You argue with a taxi driver about a fare of 30 rubles ($2) to go 2 kilometers in a blizzard. * You actually know and CARE whether Spartak won last night. * You win a shoving match with an old Babushka for a place in line and you are proud of it. * You are pleasantly surprised when there is toilet paper in the WC at work. * You notice that Flathead's cell phone is smaller than yours and you're jealous. * Your day seems brighter after seeing that goon's Mercedes broadsided by a pensioner's "Moskvich". * You are not sure what to do you when the "GAI" (traffic cop) only asks you to pay the official fine. * You wonder what the tax inspector really wants when she says everything is in order. * You are relieved when the guy standing next to you on the bus actually uses a handkerchief. * You ask for no ice in your drink. * You know seven people whose favorite novel is "The Master and Margarita" * You change into tapki (slippers) and wash your hands as soon as you walk into your apartment. * You drink the brine from empty pickle jars. * It doesn't seem strange to pay the GAI $2.25 for crossing the double line while making an illegal U-turn, and $35 for a microwaved dish of frozen vegetables at a crappy restaurant. * You are curious as to when they might start exporting Baltika beer to your home country. * You remember how many kilos you weigh - but forget how many pounds. * You see a car behind you with flashing lights and think it's some politician * The sellers at the rynok start calling you by your patronymic only * You bring your own scale and calculator to the market to make sure the amount you are charged is correct * You never smile in public when you're alone. * You know the official at the metro station/airport/border post/post office/railway station etc. etc. is going to say "nyet", but you argue anyway. * You get wildly offended when you are asked to pay at the coatcheck * When the word "salad" ceases for you to have anything to do with lettuce * You get excited when the dentist smiles and has all his own teeth * You judge the strength of your local Mafia clan by the availability of Planters Cheese Balls * You voluntarily take a stroll in the park, Baltica beer in hand, on a sub-zero day * When you realise that all the above and the other messages on this subject posted here are what you love about Russia, that you've been here long enough to feel at home and wonder whether you'll ever be able to fit * You laugh at Russian jokes * You actually get these jokes * You actually spend time writing these jokes! With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (979) 862-7771 (lab) (979) 862-9152 (home) fax (979) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.eduback in in the old country.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Wed Aug 9 20:54:16 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 16:54:16 EDT Subject: More humor Message-ID: In a message dated 8/9/0 21:48:58, p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU writes: << * You notice that Flathead's cell phone is smaller than yours and you're jealous. >> I guess cell phones will never make it as virility symbols since their snob value is inversely proportionate to their size. This reminds me, though, of one of the great Czech look-twice billboards of a couple of years ago (I wouldn't mind a rerun): Which featured a gorgeous naked man stretched out full length, with a cellular in the figleaf spot. It bore the slogan: "Small size...Great power!" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dworth at UCLA.EDU Thu Aug 10 02:32:07 2000 From: dworth at UCLA.EDU (Dean Worth) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 19:32:07 -0700 Subject: More humor In-Reply-To: <00a501c00239$a5a57790$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: I personally don't find it interesting, funny, or scary. But then I come from a time when my best friend in Moscow was beaten to death by the secret police. While you are chortling at these jokes, bear in mind that this humor still drips blood. Dean Worth At 02:40 PM 8/9/00 -0500, you wrote: >I got this from one of my friends. She got it from someone else. No name of >the author was inticated but judging by the spelling, the stuff was written >by a Brit. > >Those who have been to Russia recently might find it interesting and funny. >Those who have not, may find it scary. >But this is only humor. Enjoy! > >YOU KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN TO RUSSIA TOO LONG WHEN: > >* You don't think things are that bad right now. >* You have to think twice about throwing away an empty instant coffee >jar. >* You save table scraps for the cats living in the courtyard. >* When crossing the street, you sprint. >* You let the telephone ring at least 4 times before you pick it up >because it is probably a mis-connection or electric fault. >* You hear the radio say it is zero degrees outside and you think it >is a nice day for a change. >* You argue with a taxi driver about a fare of 30 rubles ($2) to go 2 >kilometers in a blizzard. >* You actually know and CARE whether Spartak won last night. >* You win a shoving match with an old Babushka for a place in line and >you are proud of it. >* You are pleasantly surprised when there is toilet paper in the WC at >work. >* You notice that Flathead's cell phone is smaller than yours and >you're jealous. >* Your day seems brighter after seeing that goon's Mercedes broadsided >by a pensioner's "Moskvich". >* You are not sure what to do you when the "GAI" (traffic cop) only >asks you to pay the official fine. >* You wonder what the tax inspector really wants when she says >everything is in order. >* You are relieved when the guy standing next to you on the bus >actually uses a handkerchief. >* You ask for no ice in your drink. >* You know seven people whose favorite novel is "The Master and >Margarita" >* You change into tapki (slippers) and wash your hands as soon as you >walk into your apartment. >* You drink the brine from empty pickle jars. >* It doesn't seem strange to pay the GAI $2.25 for crossing the double >line while making an illegal U-turn, and $35 for a microwaved dish of >frozen >vegetables at a crappy restaurant. >* You are curious as to when they might start exporting Baltika beer >to your home country. >* You remember how many kilos you weigh - but forget how many pounds. >* You see a car behind you with flashing lights and think it's some >politician >* The sellers at the rynok start calling you by your patronymic only >* You bring your own scale and calculator to the market to make sure >the amount you are charged is correct >* You never smile in public when you're alone. >* You know the official at the metro station/airport/border post/post >office/railway station etc. etc. is going to say "nyet", but you argue >anyway. >* You get wildly offended when you are asked to pay at the coatcheck >* When the word "salad" ceases for you to have anything to do with >lettuce >* You get excited when the dentist smiles and has all his own teeth >* You judge the strength of your local Mafia clan by the availability >of Planters Cheese Balls >* You voluntarily take a stroll in the park, Baltica beer in hand, on >a sub-zero day >* When you realise that all the above and the other messages on this >subject posted here are what you love about Russia, that you've been >here long enough to feel at home and wonder whether you'll ever be able to >fit >* You laugh at Russian jokes >* You actually get these jokes >* You actually spend time writing these jokes! > > >With compliments, > >Pavel (Paul) Samsonov >EDAD, College of Education, >Texas A&M University >tel. (979) 862-7771 (lab) > (979) 862-9152 (home) >fax (979) 862-4347 >e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.eduback in in the old country.... > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From krylya at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Aug 10 03:07:15 2000 From: krylya at HOTMAIL.COM (Rodney Patterson) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 03:07:15 GMT Subject: humor Message-ID: For many of us who lived in Russia years ago, Dean Worth's comment -- "I personally don't find it interesting, funny, or scary. But then I come from a time when my best friend in Moscow was beaten to death by the secret police. While you are chortling at these jokes, bear in mind that this humor still drips blood." -- brings back a lot of sad memories that shouldn't be forgotten. None of my friends was beaten to death by the "authorities," but a number of very fine people whom I had the privilege of knowing dreamed all their lives of someday creating something worthwhile (like a work of literary scholarship, for instance, or paintings, poetry, etc.), but went to their graves feeling as though their lives were tragic absurdities, that they had been baffled by people whose connections with civilization, if any, was difficult to detect. Meanwhile the "humor" of Americans who feel heroic after enduring a few months (if that) in Russia continues to focus on such things as the availability of toilet paper. Oh, well, perhaps that's progress, in a way. About 25 years ago I had the impression that Americans living at the Nacional' hotel (where I sometimes posted packages) were complaining that there wasn't any DESIGNER toilet paper. Rodney Patterson State University of New York at Albany ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at HOME.COM Thu Aug 10 03:23:23 2000 From: ggerhart at HOME.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 20:23:23 -0700 Subject: humor In-Reply-To: <200008100307.UAA15228@mx11-rwc.mail.home.com> Message-ID: I doubt very much that the humor had anything at all to do with the rigors of a police state. Genevra Gerhart http://www.wolfenet.com/~ggerhart New email address: ggerhart at home.com 206-329-0053 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Rodney Patterson Sent: Wednesday, August 09, 2000 8:07 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: humor For many of us who lived in Russia years ago, Dean Worth's comment -- "I personally don't find it interesting, funny, or scary. But then I come from a time when my best friend in Moscow was beaten to death by the secret police. While you are chortling at these jokes, bear in mind that this humor still drips blood." -- brings back a lot of sad memories that shouldn't be forgotten. None of my friends was beaten to death by the "authorities," but a number of very fine people whom I had the privilege of knowing dreamed all their lives of someday creating something worthwhile (like a work of literary scholarship, for instance, or paintings, poetry, etc.), but went to their graves feeling as though their lives were tragic absurdities, that they had been baffled by people whose connections with civilization, if any, was difficult to detect. Meanwhile the "humor" of Americans who feel heroic after enduring a few months (if that) in Russia continues to focus on such things as the availability of toilet paper. Oh, well, perhaps that's progress, in a way. About 25 years ago I had the impression that Americans living at the Nacional' hotel (where I sometimes posted packages) were complaining that there wasn't any DESIGNER toilet paper. Rodney Patterson State University of New York at Albany ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bougakov at MAIL.RU Thu Aug 10 09:43:03 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 13:43:03 +0400 Subject: More humor In-Reply-To: <00a501c00239$a5a57790$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: Hello Pavel, Wednesday, August 09, 2000, 11:40:17 PM, you wrote: PS> I got this from one of my friends. She got it from someone else. No name of PS> the author was inticated but judging by the spelling, the stuff was written PS> by a Brit. .................... PS> With compliments, PS> Pavel (Paul) Samsonov Pavel, as far as I remember, these jokes were published in "iíîñòðàíåö" ("inostranets") newspaper near 1st April. The only thing I want to ask is why have you skipped the second part - "YOU KNOW YOU HAVE BEEN TO US TOO LONG WHEN:" Why? If I will find this article, I will scan it and put it on my website. Cordially, Alexandre Bougakov Sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My website is http://SocioLink.narod.ru/ (thousands of sociology related links on the Web - in Russian, Microsoft Internet Explorer 4 or higher is required) My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From valben at LIBERO.IT Thu Aug 10 10:04:46 2000 From: valben at LIBERO.IT (valben@libero.it) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:04:46 +0200 Subject: analogycal changes in russian Message-ID: I'm interested in very recent morphosyntactic changes in Standard Russian. I would like to collect some examples of analogycal change in verbal goverment such as: oplachivat' za instead of oplachivat' + acc. (under the influence of platit' za); zametit' o instead of zametit' + acc. (under the influence of skazat' o ). I'm interested too in verbs which are supposed to take an object, for example, narushat' , but are found in absolute use. Please, reply to the list or off-list, as you prefer. Valja Ben ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Thu Aug 10 10:57:31 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 11:57:31 +0100 Subject: More humor Message-ID: No, it wasn't written by a Brit! I can list the reasons if you like -basically the word usage is thoroughly American. But I still enjoyed them. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Pavel Samsonov To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: More humor Date: 09 August 2000 20:40 I got this from one of my friends. She got it from someone else. No name of the author was inticated but judging by the spelling, the stuff was written by a Brit. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Thu Aug 10 11:10:32 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 12:10:32 +0100 Subject: British Library newspaper archive for disposal Message-ID: Any American libraries interested? PLEASE RE-DIRECT TO YOUR LIBRARY Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Andrew Jameson To: east-west-research ; russian-studies Subject: British Library destroys Russian archive? Date: 09 August 2000 17:59 >From Johnson's Russia List 4447 9 August 2000 Act NOW if you want to keep this resource. ******************************************************************************* #7 BRITISH LIBRARY'S RUSSIAN NEWSPAPER ARCHIVE IS GIVEN AWAY ITAR-TASS London, 8th August: One of the world's largest libraries - the British Library - has started destroying some of its newspaper archives. The richest collection of pre-Revolutionary Russian newspapers is among those threatened, the British Library's senior official, [?Bavna] Taylor, told ITAR-TASS on Tuesday [8th August]. She said her repeated offers to hand the collection over to Russia for free were unheeded by Russia's leading libraries, including the St Petersburg Central Library. Taylor said that any Russian organization interested in obtaining Imperial Russia's newspaper collection starting from 1900 was free to contact the British Library by fax: 0044-020-7412-7390. The archives which are to be destroyed include 60,000 foreign newspapers dated from 1870 onward. ******* Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From chekov at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Aug 10 14:28:16 2000 From: chekov at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (B. A. Lugo De Fabritz) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 07:28:16 -0700 Subject: More humor In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20000809193207.006a130c@pop.bol.ucla.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, Dean Worth wrote: > I personally don't find it interesting, funny, or scary. But then I come > from a time when my best friend in Moscow was beaten to death by the secret > police. While you are chortling at these jokes, bear in mind that this > humor still drips blood. Dean Worth Hmmm. This, obviously, is absolutely true. However, in my opinion, emphasizing the list of gruesome data for the Slavic world, while historically interesting and filling up volumes, can also take away from the reasons for why people LIVE in such places. It seems very interesting to me that coming from the Latin American world, which has also had its share of bloody episodes, somehow humor is a more socially acceptable form of social coping. I went to the museum with a student of mine last night who actually has lived as a teacher in Kiev for over three years, and came to us to study Russian so she could finally read what she said and understand the grammar behind it. (I'll let the political scientists on the list discuss why Russian and not Ukrainian). I showed her this list, and I have to admit we were both about to fall off our seats on the bus. She even started to add her own to the list. My favorites were: You know you have lived in Kiev (but I think these examples may apply to Russia as well) when you know when summer cabbage, instead of winter cabbage, come into season and you hold out for a week for the summer cabbage. You know you have lived in Kiev too long when the little old lady at the front bench knows your exact schedule and the mail you have received for the last month, and you do not find this strange any more. Regards, Amarilis Lugo de Fabritz graduate student, University of Washington whose student was about to get back to teaching in Kiev after a summer in the US without going to the mall until I pointed out the local express to the mall ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Thu Aug 10 17:03:30 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 18:03:30 +0100 Subject: Fw: British Library destroys Russian archive? Message-ID: From: Chris Thomas To: Andrew Jameson Subject: Re: British Library destroys Russian archive? Date: 10 August 2000 16:41 In response to the report about Russian newspapers, see below information provided by Ed King, Head of the BL Newspaper Library, in response to the original TASS report: The TASS statement of 8 August that these titles are: ".the richest collection of pre-revolutionary Russian newspapers" is somewhat exaggerated - the British Library has only five Russian Imperial newspaper titles (mostly incomplete runs) that may be available for disposal. As a result of recent publicity, the Library has had a number of enquiries from libraries in Russia, who are interested in taking the newspapers. The Newspaper Library is placing all the enquiries on file at present, as consultation is now taking place with UK academic community and libraries regarding the newspaper disposals. Chris Thomas Slavonic and East European Collections, The British Library ************************************************************************************* #7 BRITISH LIBRARY'S RUSSIAN NEWSPAPER ARCHIVE IS GIVEN AWAY ITAR-TASS London, 8th August: One of the world's largest libraries - the British Library - has started destroying some of its newspaper archives. The richest collection of pre-Revolutionary Russian newspapers is among those threatened, the British Library's senior official, [?Bavna] Taylor, told ITAR-TASS on Tuesday [8th August]. She said her repeated offers to hand the collection over to Russia for free were unheeded by Russia's leading libraries, including the St Petersburg Central Library. Taylor said that any Russian organization interested in obtaining Imperial Russia's newspaper collection starting from 1900 was free to contact the British Library by fax: 0044-020-7412-7390. The archives which are to be destroyed include 60,000 foreign newspapers dated from 1870 onward. ******* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ah69 at COLUMBIA.EDU Thu Aug 10 18:56:04 2000 From: ah69 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Andrew Hicks) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:56:04 -0400 Subject: Fw: British Library destroys Russian archive? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Those interested in how the British Library disposes of its newspaper collection should read Nicholson Baker's eloquent New Yorker article on newspaper preservation. It appeared in the last month or so. Apologies for the vague citation, but I've already recycled that issue. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Thu Aug 10 21:45:17 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Martha Sherwood) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:45:17 -0700 Subject: not so secret police (was: re humor) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For the record, has anyone on this list had an acquaintance who has died mysteriously in police custody in the USA, with no satisfactory explanation given. I have not, but people whose veracity I trust have reported serious injuries at the hands of police - dislocated shoulder, for example - in cases where no charges were subsequently filed. Dying of anaphylactic shock following being pepper-sprayed can't be that pleasant, and seems a bit of an excessive penalty for trespassing and disorderly conduct. In Brezhnev's Russia, what was the armament of ordinary patrolmen? If they carried guns, what was the procedure for investigating when a patrolman shot and killed a criminal suspect who turned out to be unarmed? If someone can point me in the direction of websites or microfilm archives, I would much appreciate it. I read Russian fairly well. -Martha Sherwood- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Thu Aug 10 22:09:49 2000 From: AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Alex Rudd) Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 18:09:49 EDT Subject: not so secret police (was: re humor) In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:45:17 -0700 Message-ID: On Thu, 10 Aug 2000 14:45:17 -0700 Martha Sherwood said: >For the record, has anyone on this list had an acquaintance who has died >mysteriously in police custody in the USA, with no satisfactory >explanation given. I have not, but people whose veracity I trust have >reported serious injuries at the hands of police - dislocated shoulder, >for example - in cases where no charges were subsequently filed. Dying of >anaphylactic shock following being pepper-sprayed can't be that pleasant, >and seems a bit of an excessive penalty for trespassing and disorderly >conduct. > >In Brezhnev's Russia, what was the armament of ordinary patrolmen? Dear SEELangers, My apologies in advance. Since Martha's message was distributed to all of you, I feel compelled to reply on the list to respond to her first paragraph above. Since my reply has nothing to do with anything Russian or Slavic in any way, feel free to delete this now if you don't wish to read further. Sorry for the interruption. Martha, Inquiring into resources to research Brezhnev's police is one thing, but I fail to see how it has anything to do with deaths in police custody in the USA. With regards to injuries suffered during interactions with the police, you can believe in someone's veracity and still draw the wrong conclusion due to having a dearth of facts. An example: Officer Friendly stops a car for running a stop sign and, while speaking with the driver, notices an odor of burnt marijuana coming from within the car. The odor gives Officer Friendly probable cause to search the car and he asks the driver to step out so he can do that. The driver, not believing the officer has any right to search his car (when, in fact, he does), protests and refuses to get out of the car. At that point the driver has refused a lawful order from a police officer and is interfering with the officer's duties (which in most places, by a number of different names, is a crime all by itself). Officer Friendly calmly explains to the driver that he has the right to search the car and that the driver is risking arrest by refusing to get out of the car. That's level one on the "use of force" scale, verbal commands. Verbal commands aren't working now, so what is Officer Friendly to do? Give up and go away? Doesn't work that way. Officer Friendly asks again, and again the driver refuses. Officer Friendly now goes to level two on the use of force scale, and puts his hands on the driver to remove him physically from the car. Officer Friendly applies a pressure point technique or a wrist lock or a similar technique which causes pain but no injury and pulls the driver from the car. Is that a justifiable use of force? You betcha. Now when the driver is out of the car, he is angry that he has been physically removed from his car and twists his body forcefully in an effort to break free from Officer Friendly's grasp. The result? His shoulder is dislocated because Officer Friendly was still applying the wrist lock. Is that injury Officer Friendly's fault? No. It's the driver's, all the way. Another example: A liquor store is robbed by a white male and a white female. Witnesses report that they fled in a blue Honda and give police the first three numbers from the license plate. Five minutes later and one mile away, officers observe a white male and a white female in a blue Honda. The first three numbers on the license plate nearly match, with one digit an "8" instead of a "3". The officers may stop that car because they have reasonable suspicion (another legal term, one notch lower than probable cause) that the occupants were involved in the liquor store robbery. Since there were guns displayed in the robbery, the officers wisely order the occupants out of the car at gunpoint. The occupants comply with the orders and, lying facedown on the pavement, are handcuffed behind their backs by the police. While handcuffing the female, one officer puts his knee across her shoulder blade, which is part of the proper handcuffing technique he has been taught. He doesn't realize that the woman has a sore back and she flinches hard when he kneels on her, causing the officer to lose his balance and she dislocates her shoulder. At this point the couple in the Honda are *not* under arrest. They are being lawfully detained on reasonable suspicion and even the fact they are handcuffed does not raise the detention to the level of an arrest because the crime of which they are suspected involved violence and police are permitted to take actions that protect themselves and the general public while they are investigating crimes. The victim is brought to the scene and tells the police that the man and woman are not the ones who robbed his store. The police let the man and woman go (with apologies, of course) and arrange for medical attention for the woman's shoulder. No charges are filed, but the police have done nothing wrong. As far as pepper spray is concerned, you seem to have a misconception about why and when it is used and what can happen as a result of using it. Police do not use pepper spray to "penalize" anyone for anything, including trespassing and disorderly conduct. If it's used, it's used to overcome unlawful resistance, usually after verbal commands have failed. For example, in California, a man who has become intoxicated and lies down on a public road to take a nap has committed the crime of disorderly conduct. When the police arrive and determine that they have probable cause to believe he is guilty of that crime, they may arrest the man. If he resists and doesn't follow commands to stop resisting and put his hands behind his back, what are the police to do? Give up and go away? Doesn't work that way. So what's the safest way to overcome the man's resistance and put him in custody? It may be to spray him with pepper spray. Pepper spray, as the name implies, is really hot pepper discharged by means of a propellant, that gets in your eyes and stings like heck. On the majority of people, it has the effect of causing them to stop whatever they were doing (i.e. resisting) and passively stand or sit with eyes clenched shut. Recovery is aided by flushing with water. It's as simple as that. No one goes into anaphylactic shock after being sprayed with pepper spray. That's impossible. Anaphylactic shock is an allergic reaction that takes place upon exposure to a specific antigen, such as wasp venom or penicillin, following previous sensitization. Nothing in pepper spray is, or could be, such an antigen. If you hold anti-police sentiments for any reason, and I'm not saying some small number of police officers haven't done things to merit ill will, that's all well and good. But please don't allow yourself to fall into the trap of allowing your ignorance of the law and police procedure to color the glasses through which you view all police actions and thereby form incorrect or unfair conclusions. This is obviously not a topic for SEELANGS. If you wish to pick up the thread elsewhere, take it to CJUST-L, The Criminal Justice Discussion List, also located on LISTSERV at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU. Thanks. - Alex, list owner of SEELANGS seelangs-request at listserv.cuny.edu .................................................................... Alex Rudd ahrjj at cunyvm.cuny.edu ARS KA2ZOO {Standard Disclaimer} http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Fri Aug 11 10:21:09 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:21:09 +0100 Subject: =?KOI8-R?Q?Fw:_=F3=D4=C9=C8=C9=D1:_=D4=CF=CC=D8=CB=CF_=D0=CF=DC=DA=C9=D1?= =?KOI8-R?Q?_:_Ubi_vita=2C_ibi_poesis?= Message-ID: Just for fun, I'm sending you the daily message I receive from CityCat in St Petersburg. This comes in a multi-coloured HTML format but which I am converting to text for this list. The mailing features A POEM A DAY, which I like. If you can't decode the Cyrillic, contact me and I'll send you a suggestions file on how to switch on your Windows Cyrillic which should be there in W95 and later. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: CityCat To: lit.stixiya Subject: Стихия: только поэзия : Ubi vita, ibi poesis Date: 11 August 2000 07:20 Служба Рассылок Городского Кота Реклама Откройте свою рассылку на Subscribe.Ru ! О вас узнают сотни тысяч наших подписчиков! Рассылка предоставлена Городским Котом (Citycat). Реклама в рассылке принадлежит Городскому Коту. . ... ... [CTUXU: ] ............. Сайт обновляется раз в день. На сегодня поэтов - 183, стихотворений - 3211. Кодировку (win koi mac dos lat) можно сменить на заглавной странице Стихии . НОВОСТИ СТИХИИ : Благодоря читателю, обновления на странице Вас. Федорова. Также новое: Межиров, Блок, Друнина, Рождественский, Рубцов, Евтушенко, и другие. Роберт Рождественский * * * Человеку надо мало: чтоб искал и находил. Чтоб имелись для начала Друг - один и враг - один... Человеку надо мало: чтоб тропинка вдаль вела. Чтоб жила на свете мама. Сколько нужно ей - жила.. Человеку надо мало: после грома - тишину. Голубой клочок тумана. Жизнь - одну. И смерть - одну. Утром свежую газету - с Человечеством родство. И всего одну планету: Землю! Только и всего. И - межзвездную дорогу да мечту о скоростях. Это, в сущности,- немного. Это, в общем-то,- пустяк. Невеликая награда. Невысокий пьедестал. Человеку мало надо. Лишь бы дома кто-то ждал. 1973 Используя материалы этой рассылки, пожалуйста, ставьте ссылку на: СТИХИЯ: Лучшая поэзия http://litera.ru/stixiya/ ........................................................................ ... ... . // img src=http://www5.reklama.ru/cgi-bin/banner/"+ login + "?" + rand + " width=468 height=60 border=0 alt=RRU> "); if ( b != 1 ) document.write("-->[RRU: ] [RRU: ] http://subscribe.ru/ E-mail: ask at subscribe.ru Relayed by Corbina Рейтингуется SpyLog [] [] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Fri Aug 11 10:46:32 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:46:32 +0100 Subject: Why does US spurn Russia's fire-fighting aircraft? Message-ID: #6 MSNBC August 9, 2000 Too proud to accept Russia's help Why has U.S. spurned Russia's fire-fighting aircraft? By Michael Moran Michael Moran is senior producer for special projects at MSNBC.com and a columnist on foreign affairs. NEW YORK, Aug. 9 — Two years ago, during a particularly bad year for wildfires in Florida, I began getting e-mail from a reader who sensed a scandal in the smoke-filled winds. As U.S. firefighters struggled with blazes in 10 states, a Russian offer to lend the United States two of its IL-76 tanker aircraft — by far the largest in the world — was spurned. But now, with a new wildfire threatening unprecedented destruction, the United States has snubbed Russia again. What, exactly, is going on? THE ILYUSHIN IL-76 is known to military and civilian aviation buffs as the huge workhorse of Russian aviation. Since the early 1970s, the four-engine jet has been the main Soviet/Russian military transport and a major force in international cargo hauling since the USSR collapsed. But it's also the largest firefighting weapon in the world. A single IL-76 tanker can drop 11,000 gallons of water in one trip - about four times as much as the largest tanker in the U.S. arsenal, the C-130 Hercules. Ask any firefighters who don't wear a tie to work and they'll tell you that's an asset they want on their side. In May, when fires threatened the Los Alamos nuclear plant, Russia again offered the IL-76 for the cause. The U.S. Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) considered the offer. But in the end, once again, the United States said no. That's when several of my readers, again outraged at what they perceived as America putting its pride over the safety of its citizens, spammed me with mail about the Russian aircraft. REGRETS? THEY'VE GOT A FEW With 4 million acres consumed already this year and more to burn, why has the United States continued to say "Nyet?" It's a question I put to the National Interagency Fire Center in Boise, Idaho, which is coordinating the national firefighting effort. "The aircraft Russia is offering is new, and we don't understand its technology or capabilities," said Pat Entwistle, a fire information officer. "Also, they have non-English speaking crews and we haven't figured out how to incorporate this plane into our system." Told that Russia has been offering this assistance for years, Entwistle said: "In the past, we have never had a situation that exceeded our capability to handle." Well, to me, "a situation that exceeds our capability to handle" is a pretty good definition of what the Federal Emergency Management Agency should be doing, no? Entwistle conceded the policy would probably be reviewed, but added "now is not the time. We've got our hands full just dealing with the fires." She also said that previous assessments of the plane had found it "incompatible" with U.S. methods, though she failed to explain exactly how. MISSED OPPORTUNITIES There certainly was ample time to learn how to use this exotic "new" Russian technology whereby a gigantic plane that first flew in 1974 drops water on a fire. Russia first made the IL-76 available to the U.S. in 1996. It tried again during the big Western blazes of '97 and throughout Florida's debacle in 1998. The most recent cold shoulder turned to Russia came back in May, when the Los Alamos plant was evacuated. "We appreciate the goodwill ...," FEMA emergency analyst David Passey told the Albuquerque Journal. "But we haven't had a request for more aircraft and the Forest Service doesn't appear to need them." Privately, several sources in the Forest Service and the Agriculture Department described a "minor debate" within their ranks over the usefulness of the aircraft. These sources - all of whom, incidentally, support using the big jet - said the official line rejecting the offer rests on the idea that a jet moves too quickly to drop water on downhill slopes. While this may be true, it ignores the usefulness of dropping such enormous quantities of water on uphill slopes (which, after all, simply entails approaching the mountain from the other direction) or on level land to help create firebreaks. SWORDS TO PLOWSHARES? Back in Russia, the Ministry of Emergency Situations understandably is flabbergasted at all this. After years of being told their help is unwanted, the Russians are beginning to sense something more than the prickly pride of the U.S. Forest Service at work. "Fear of competition," is how Sergei Shoigu, who heads Russia's version of FEMA, described the reticent American response.* It's not as though Moscow is offering to sell missiles to Cuba, after all. Even if they are a bit loopy in suspecting that America fears competition in the (non-existent) firefighting tanker market, it's not difficult to see why this kind of reaction contributes to international misunderstandings. ULTERIOR MOTIVES Certainly, Ilyushin, makers of the IL-76, have more than humanitarian action on their minds. Like all of the great weapons makers of the former Soviet Union, Ilyushin has struggled to find new markets after its captive market of satellite and toady states collapsed. But unlike many of its Soviet sister firms, Ilyushin made something useful in peacetime: the IL-76. Helping former Soviet industry develop into civilian corporations is standard State Department boilerplate. Yet in this instance, where a need exists and a supplier readily available, American bureaucracy gets in the way. Tom Robinson, a Florida-based firefighting consultant, has made the cause of the IL-76 as something of a personal crusade. Robinson represents Global Emergency Response (GER), a government and industry consortium of U.S., Canadian and Russian agencies that has tried for years to get the Russian aircraft onto American radar. He's hardly a disinterested party - over the years he's become something of a zealot on the jet's behalf - but he's got a point when he asserts that this issue has been grossly mismanaged. Robinson thinks this resistance comes down to pure inertia. "Like any federal agency, they don't want to change," Robinson told me. "They're comfortable using small planes and a group of private contractors. Now they have to adjust and they don't like it." How many homes does it take to change U.S. Forest Service policy? How many thousands of firefighters - American, Canadian or Mexican - should be put at risk for the sake of a somewhat suspect ruling about this "new technology?" Don't tell me about it. Tell the Forest Service. The guys fighting the fires. ******* Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From krylya at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Aug 11 10:59:02 2000 From: krylya at HOTMAIL.COM (Rodney Patterson) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:59:02 GMT Subject: Firefighting aircraft Message-ID: I would suppose that the existence of major weapons development test areas and other sensitive military / defense installations in the states now threatened by fire is a factor in the reluctance to accept Russia's offer to roam on the range. Rodney Patterson State University of New York at Albany ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bougakov at MAIL.RU Fri Aug 11 11:54:28 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:54:28 +0400 Subject: Firefighting aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Rodney, Friday, August 11, 2000, 2:59:02 PM, you wrote: RP> I would suppose that the existence of major weapons development RP> test areas and other sensitive military / defense installations in RP> the states now threatened by fire is a factor in the reluctance to RP> accept Russia's offer to roam on the range. There is no need to send an aircraft to the area with "sensitive military installations" - you can get the photos of it from space. There are lots of high-quality photos of any US and major European regions. They are available for civilians too, not only for military. You can choose and buy online high-resolution (objects larger than 1 or 2 meters are visible) from www.sovinformsputnik.com (various exSoviet and Russian satellites), www.spaceimage.com (Radarsat, Ikonos, IRS - Indian Remote Sensing, Landsat and other satellites), www.digitalglobe.com (french satellite Spot, many small QuickBird satellites) and www.orb-image.com (OrbView satellites). As you can see, security is not a factor. Cordially, Alexandre Bougakov Moscow, Russian Federation P.S. You can buy a satellite photo of your neighborhood - it is really great. You can show it to your neighbors and friends - it always causes very big interest. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Aug 11 15:20:58 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:20:58 -0500 Subject: Firefighting aircraft Message-ID: > I would suppose that the existence of major weapons development test areas > and other sensitive military / defense installations in the states now > threatened by fire is a factor in the reluctance to accept Russia's offer to > roam on the range. > > Rodney Patterson > State University of New York at Albany > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com This is US government. It has been notorious for centuries for red tape and resistance to any change (like almost any government). Been there, done that. The Russian bureaucrat may not be very helpful, be s/he will tell you up front: "Yes" or "No" ("No" in most cases). The US bureaucrat will charm you with a smile and ask about your US impressions, your family, etc. Then s/he will pretend to listen to your story nodding his/her head and saying: "yes", "right", "sure", "oh, really". S/he will make some notes somewhere and say when you're done: "Listen, I tell you what: let me take a shot at it, OK? I'll call you". S/he may even want to see you to the door, shake your hand again and again promise to call. They NEVER do. It is only later that you recall that s/he never actually asked for your phone number. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (979) 862-7771 (lab) (979) 862-9152 (home) fax (979) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From adamp at LING.OHIO-STATE.EDU Fri Aug 11 15:27:53 2000 From: adamp at LING.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Adam Przepiorkowski) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:27:53 -0400 Subject: Proceedings of the "Generative Linguistics in Poland" meeting available Message-ID: The readers of this list may be interested in the following recent publication: "PROCEEDINGS OF THE FIRST GENERATIVE LINGUISTICS IN POLAND CONFERENCE", edited by Piotr Banski and Adam Przepiorkowski (2000), published by the Institute of Computer Science, Polish Academy of Sciences, Warsaw. Please find the table of contents and the ordering information enclosed below. More information on the "Generative Linguistics in Poland" conference series can be found here: http://venus.ci.uw.edu.pl/~glip/. Sincerely, Piotr Banski and Adam Przepiorkowski TABLE OF CONTENTS ----------------- Foreword 1 Gaining the perspective of a Language Family oriented Grammar Design: Special predicative clitics in Slavic. TANIA AVGUSTINOVA 5 Clitics and syntactic argumentation: diagnostics and pitfalls. PIOTR BANSKI 15 What is Generative Grammar? ROBERT D. BORSLEY 26 The unergative/unaccusative distinction in Polish. BOZENA CETNAROWSKA 35 Overt Quantifier Raising in Polish. EWA DORNISCH 47 The aspectual morpheme _as_ and feature movement in argument small clauses. ANGEL JIMENEZ FERNANDEZ 59 O skladni konstrukcji nominalnych w jezyku niemieckim: Od teorii GB do minimalizmu. PAWEL KARNOWSKI 70 Morpholexical rules in Polish. ANNA KIBORT 82 A lexical account of clitic climbing in Polish. ANNA KUPSC 94 Constituent coordination in Polish: an attempt at an HPSG account. ANNA KUPSC, MALGORZATA MARCINIAK, AGNIESZKA MYKOWIECKA 104 Pied-Piping in German and Polish: Some Minimalist considerations. PAWEL MECNER 116 Polish relative pronouns: an HPSG approach. AGNIESZKA MYKOWIECKA 124 Optional and multiple long distance Genitive of Negation. ADAM PRZEPIORKOWSKI 135 Analytic tenses in Slavic. ANDREW SPENCER 147 Some aspects of the grammar and interpretation of adjectival modification. EWA WILLIM 156 On the Preference Principle and Reconstruction in Polish. JACEK WITKOS 168 ORDERING INFORMATION -------------------- The price of this publication is 40 PLN (Polish zloties; less than 10 USD) per volume. The price includes package and postage. Payments should be made either by check (payable to Instytut Podstaw Informatyki PAN) or via money transfer to the following account: BANK: BPH SA II Oddzial w Warszawie SWIFT CODE: BPHK PL PK ACCOUNT HOLDER: Instytut Podstaw Informatyki PAN ACCOUNT NO.: 10601015-380000025549 The order (with the check / transfer receipt included) should be sent to the following address: Biblioteka IPI PAN Institute of Computer Science Polish Academy of Sciences ul. J.K. Ordona 21 01-237 Warszawa Poland For more information on ordering the proceedings, get in touch with Ms. Alicja Aloksa at Alicja.Aloksa at IPIPAN.Waw.PL. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From MonnierN at MISSOURI.EDU Fri Aug 11 16:27:33 2000 From: MonnierN at MISSOURI.EDU (Nicole Monnier) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 11:27:33 -0500 Subject: Calling all Ph.D. students and recent graduates: Help improve doctoral education Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Fri Aug 11 17:27:42 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:27:42 -0400 Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? Message-ID: Could someone here say what is a "rifmoplet"? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yspigak at MINDSPRING.COM Fri Aug 11 21:04:37 2000 From: yspigak at MINDSPRING.COM (Yelena Spivak) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:04:37 -0700 Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? Message-ID: It is someone who wants to be a poet, but not good enough for it. -----Original Message----- From: Udut, Kenneth To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Date: Friday, August 11, 2000 10:26 AM Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? >Could someone here say what is a "rifmoplet"? > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Aug 11 17:45:20 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 12:45:20 -0500 Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? Message-ID: > Could someone here say what is a "rifmoplet"? Rifmoplet comes form "rifma" (rhyme) and "plesti" (weave). It normally stands for a poor poet who writes his "poems" by rhyming without bothering about the content and other attributes like word choice, style, alliteration, etc. Alexandre Ivanov offered his rhymes for "rifmoplets" - "lubov' - krov', vnov', " and "brat" - "dvojurodnyj brat". Okudzhava satirized rifmoplets of the 50's - 60's who wrote phony verses about the romantics of exploring new lands at the request of the authorities: "My edem, edem, edem Edem i prieded, Rasskazhi sosed'am Pro dalekij put'. Oh da ah kakije, Svetlo-golubye, Edem i priedem Veselo vzgl'anut' " Smth. like this. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (979) 862-7771 (lab) (979) 862-9152 (home) fax (979) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Fri Aug 11 17:56:31 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 10:56:31 -0700 Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? In-Reply-To: <97A32872DFFED211A62E0008C79168A402561B41@kenmsg03b.us.schp.com> Message-ID: Is that meant to be an English word? :) -- Kat Tancock UVic CALL Facility http://web.uvic.ca/hcmc tancockk at uvic.ca > From: "Udut, Kenneth" > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:27:42 -0400 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? > > Could someone here say what is a "rifmoplet"? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Fri Aug 11 18:19:54 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:19:54 -0400 Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? Message-ID: Thank you for the quick responses! A quick furthur question: Are there (either in book form or online) examples from a real rifmoplet? Or perhaps some 'bad poets' who are known for their "rifmorplet"-ness? -Ken |> Could someone here say what is a "rifmoplet"? | |Rifmoplet comes form "rifma" (rhyme) and "plesti" (weave). | |It normally stands for a poor poet who writes his "poems" by rhyming without |bothering about the content and other attributes like word choice, style, |alliteration, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Fri Aug 11 18:20:50 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:20:50 -0400 Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? Message-ID: >Could someone here say what is a "rifmoplet"? A bad poet. ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Aug 11 18:25:32 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 13:25:32 -0500 Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? Message-ID: > Thank you for the quick responses! > > A quick furthur question: > > Are there (either in book form or online) > examples from a real rifmoplet? > > Or perhaps some 'bad poets' who are > known for their "rifmorplet"-ness? > I cant's recall the name of the poets who wrote for "Murzilka" - a magazine for children. One of the examples (from the 70's) is: "Znajut deti vse na svete, Znajut deti na zemle, Chto sobrals'a dvadtsat' tretij Kommunistov s'ezd v Kremle" This is not a parody, this is real stuff. Another, again in "Murzilka": "Eto dvornik d'a'd'a Fed'a, On sil'nej, chem tri medved'a, Iz svoej bol'shoj kishki On polivaet kamushki". The latter is especially cool. If you read CyrWin: ????? ???? ??? ?? ?????, ????? ???? ?? ?????, ??? ???????? ???????? ?????? ??????????? ????? ? ?????? ? ??? ??????? ???? ????, ?? ???????, ??? ??? ???????, ?? ????? ??????? ????? ?? ???????? ???????! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Fri Aug 11 19:53:44 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 15:53:44 -0400 Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? Message-ID: >Are there (either in book form or online) >examples from a real rifmoplet? > >Or perhaps some 'bad poets' who are >known for their "rifmoplet"-ness? You should not take the word literally. If A(nn) calls B(ob) "rifmoplet", she is saying that he is a bad poet, not that he can weave the rhymes. Take the famous game of "burime" (bouts-rimés), you have to be good a weaving rhymes, and some performers do as a form of entertainment. Yet, they are not called "rifmoplety". ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Fri Aug 11 20:25:09 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 16:25:09 EDT Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? Message-ID: Not knowing whether it was a Slavic word or otherwise, I guessed: it was a small hors d'oeuvre of pickled herring. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bougakov at MAIL.RU Fri Aug 11 21:22:52 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 01:22:52 +0400 Subject: Firefighting aircraft In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello Rodney, Friday, August 11, 2000, 8:15:01 PM, you wrote: RP> Thanks for your note. What you say is quite true, but the RP> satellite material cannot provide the signal- and RP> voice-intelligence that an airplane can, nor can it provide RP> zero-wait intelligence about real-time activity at military RP> installations and proving grounds. For that reason I suppose that RP> American aircraft are not permitted anywhere near sensitive RP> Russian sites. As far as I remember, our governments have signed an agreement, which allows both countries to make control flights over the partner's territory - it is the measure, that allows both sides to control the fullfilling of the Nuclear non-proliferation treaty. (Maybe, it is a part of START-1 or 2, I don't know it exactly). Anywhere and anytime (but only several times a year) - without the fear to get a rocket, as Powers in 60-s on his U2 spy aircraft did. The opposite side warns its partner about the next flight' time and route only couple of hours before it begins. American and Russian planes perform such flights several last years, they make any photos and recordings above any object they are interested in - it is a matter of trust, which allows to perform nuclear arms cut - without a fear that the opposite side will hide couple of odd rockets somewhere. Palnes already fly and do it legally. So, I suppose, that MSNBC.com is right - there are political reasons to do so. It is not very original - I can give you lots of examples of trade protectionism and other such things in Russia - "support only national industry!", "Buy Russian!" etc. It is very sad, that it happens so anywhere in this planet and US is not an exclusion. Good weekend to you, Rodney, and your family. Cordially, Alexandre Bougakov Sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From WverZhger at AOL.COM Sat Aug 12 04:21:54 2000 From: WverZhger at AOL.COM (WverZhger at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 00:21:54 EDT Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? Message-ID: Dear Seelangers: Good guess on the pickled herring. (LOL). I'm curious to hear opinions on what some of you might think of this. Would many of todays popular musicians, especially rappers (mainly the most socially detested ones because of the content of their lyrics) be considered rifmoplets. It seems especially prevalent that many lyrics today slur an "ers" ending of a word into "az" endings. I'm sure that many of my high school students could come up with some other examples. This seems to be the most common one. Anxiously awaiting your thoughts on this one. Sincerely, William Vernola ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From krylya at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Aug 12 16:22:38 2000 From: krylya at HOTMAIL.COM (Rodney Patterson) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 16:22:38 GMT Subject: rifmopletstvo Message-ID: The English equivalent of "rifmoplet," I think, is "poetaster,""versifier," "rhymster," and perhaps "wholesale jingle-monger" at the negative end, and "a would-be poet who needs work" on the charitable end. My favorite example is Eddie Guest (1881-1959) whose rifmopletstvo was syndicated in the U.S. from ca. 1916 through the 20s to ?. His verses were served up every day with the daily newspaper and millions of patriotic, religious, and other Americans, including the fairly dim-witted, who could get misty-eyed over Mother, Apple Pie, the Good-old-U-S-of-A, air-brushed and rosy-hued Capitalism, Abe Lincoln, Sunday's sermon, the latest gadgets that help the little woman as she does her little work in the kitchen, Football, Our Boys Over There, etc. They choked it down with their pancakes and grease. Examples: THE BATTLE OF BELLEAU WOOD It was thick with Prussian troopers, it was foul with German guns; Every tree that cast a shadow was a sheltering place for Huns. Death was guarding every roadway, death was watching every field, And behind each rise of terrain was a rapid-fire concealed; Uncle Sam's Marines had orders: 'Drive the Boche from where they're hid. For the honor of Old Glory, take the woods!' And so they did. Etc. Then there's the one about the grimy coal-deliverer who, having leaped from his seat to save a child who had stepped in front of his heavy truck, was run over: BENEATH THE DIRT ... Over his legs went the heavy wheels, and they picked him up for dead, And the rich man's wife placed her sable coat as a pillow for his head. And black as he was, the rich man said: 'He shall travel home with me.' And he sat by his side in the limosine and was proud of his company. Etc. TEACH THEM THE FLAG Teach the children of the Flag, Let them know the joy it holds In its sun-kissed rippling folds; Don't let patriotism lag: Train them so that they will love Every star and stripe above. As you teach their lips to pray, Teach them always to be true To the red, the white and blue; Praise the flag from day to day, Tell the children at your knee All the joys of liberty... Etc. A MAN MUST WANT ...The want of poverty is grim, It has a harsh and cruel sting, But fill the cup up to the brim, And that's a far more hopeless thing. A man must want from day to day, Must want to reach a distant goal Or claim some treasure far away, For want's the builder of the soul.... Etc. THE MAN WHO GETS PROMOTED The ordinary fellow does an ordinary task, He's mighty fond of "good enough' and lets it go at that; But the chap who gets promoted, or the raise he doesn't ask, Has just a little something more than hair beneath his hat.... Etc. THE CARVING KNIFE ...Now like my good old dad I stand, and take the carving knife in hand And run my thumb along its edge and find it dull and nicked. And like my good old dad I vow some day there'll be a healthy row, But I'm as unsuccessful as my father when he kicked. The maid, the youngsters and the wife still take that sacred carving knife And use it as a handy tool on wood or lead or stone; In spite of all I do or say, the blade is dulled from day to day, I cannot get the women folks to leave that knife alone! These priceless gems of poshlost' inspired the finest criticism, parody: Louis Untermeyer summarized Guest's maudlin sentimentality, his utter lack of taste and his hopeless "technique" (monosyllabic diction, hypermetrical stress, masculine worn-out rhymes -- matching his masculine prejudices -- cliches instead of metaphor, for example): EDGAR A. GUEST Syndicates the Old Woman Who Lived in a Shoe It takes a heap o' children to make a home that's true, And home can be a palace grand, or just a plain, old shoe; But if it has a mother dear, and a good old dad or two, Why, that's the sort of good old home for good old me and you. Of all the institutions this side the Vale o' Rest Howe'er it be, it seems to me a good old mother's best; And fathers are a blessing, too, they give the place a tone; In fact each child should try and have some parents of its own. The food can be quite simple; just a sop of milk and bread Are plenty when the kiddies know it's time to go to bed. And every little sleepy-head will dream about the day When he can go to work because a Man's Work is his Play. And, oh, how sweet his life will seem, with nought to make him cross; And he will never watch the clock and always mind the boss. And when he thinks (as may occur), this thought will please him best: That ninety million think the same -- including Eddie Guest. Demjan Bednyj's effusions belong in the same book of RIFMOPLETSTVO. The following is an example that has the additional charm of its faux man-of-the-people first line and the limping pun in its last: Poju. No razve ja �poju�? Moj golos ogrubel v boju, I stix moj... blesku net v ego prostom narjade. Ne na sverkajushchej estrade Pred �chistoj publikoj�, vostorzheno-nemoj, I ne pod skripok ston charjujushche-napevnyj, Ja vozvyshaju golos moj -- Gluxoj, nadtresnutyj, nasmeshlivyj i gnevnyj. Nasled�ja tjazhkogo nesja prokljatyj gruz, Ja ne sluzhitel� muz: Moj tverdyj, chetkij stix � moj podvig ezhednevnyj Rodnoj narod, stradalec trudovoj, Mne vazhen sud lish� tvoj, Ty mne odin sud�ja prjamoj, nelicemernyj, Ty, ch�ix nadezhd i dum ja � vyrazitel� vernyj, Ty, temnyx ch�ix uglov ja � �pes storozhevoj�! Ultimately, the question of whether to include one or another poet in the list of rifmoplety depends on what one requires from poetry. If much-masticated pablum without formal interest is desirable, Eddie Guest is a pretty clear example, though he may be reevaluated positively some century hence. I think Frost falls into the category during his last years, when he began to believe all the praise heaped upon him, including praise in the Soviet Union. One thing is sure: a comprehensive anthology of rifmopletstvo would be nearly endless. Some of the worst things in it are so bad that they should be collected as precious artifacts of versified atrocities against poetry or as pure comedy. ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at SPRINT.CA Sat Aug 12 16:55:51 2000 From: colkitto at SPRINT.CA (Robert Orr) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 12:55:51 -0400 Subject: rifmopletstvo Message-ID: Subject: rifmopletstvo Actually, the examples given by Rodney Patterson of Eddie Guest and Demjan Bednyj are almost classic, prize-winning poetry compared to the greatest rifmoplet of all, whose material was so awful that it has lived on, and spawned a cult (check out http://www.spda.com/mcgonagall/browse_gems.cfm ), I refer to McGonagall's "Poetic Gems:" I've taken the liberty of copying a representative one below "Some of the worst things in it are so bad that they should be collected as precious artifacts of versified atrocities against poetry or as pure comedy." A Descriptive Poem On The Silvery Tay Beautiful silvery Tay, With your landscapes, so lovely and gay, Along each side of your waters, to Perth all the way; No other river in the world has got scenery more fine, Only I am told the beautiful Rhine, Near to Wormit Bay, it seems very fine, Where the Railway Bridge is towering above its waters sublime, And the beautiful ship Mars, With her Juvenile Tars Both lively and gay, Does carelessly lie By night and by day, In the beautiful bay of the silvery Tay. Beautiful, beautiful! silvery Tay, They scenery is enchanting on a fine summer day, Near by Balmerino it is beautiful to behold, When the trees are in full bloom and the cornfields seem like gold - And nature's face seems gay, And the lambkins they do play, And the humming bees is on the wing, It is enough to make one sing, While they carelessly do stray, Along the beautiful banks of the silvery Tay, Beautiful silvery Tay, rolling smoothly on your way, Near to Newport, as clear as the day, They scenery around is charming I'll be bound... And would make the heart of any one feel light and gay on a fine summer day, To view the beautiful scenery along the banks of the silvery Tay ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at WANADOO.FR Sat Aug 12 21:05:57 2000 From: gadassov at WANADOO.FR (Adassovsky Georges) Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 22:05:57 +0100 Subject: rifmopletstvo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The English equivalent of "rifmoplet," I think, is "poetaster,""versifier," >"rhymster," In French: rimailleur But the Russian word is funnier with its own consonantal virtu. Georges ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Sun Aug 13 07:32:00 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (Stephen J. Bobick) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 00:32:00 -0700 Subject: rifmopletstvo Message-ID: Rodney Patterson wrote: > His verses were served up every day > with the daily newspaper and millions of patriotic, religious, and other > Americans, including the fairly dim-witted, who could get misty-eyed over > Mother, Apple Pie, the Good-old-U-S-of-A, air-brushed and rosy-hued > Capitalism, Abe Lincoln, Sunday's sermon, the latest gadgets that help the > little woman as she does her little work in the kitchen, Football, Our Boys > Over There, etc. А т╕льки д╕йсно ■╕нтел╕гентн╕■, ■осв╕чен╕■ люди можуть жити в Америц╕ та плювати на не╖, не шануючи вс╕х, що дали ╖м можлив╕сть жити так своб╕дно, розк╕шно, добре. Пхе! Хочу блювати. -- Степан ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Sun Aug 13 13:53:13 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 09:53:13 EDT Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? Message-ID: Would many of todays popular musicians, especially rappers (mainly the most socially detested ones because of the content of their lyrics) be considered rifmoplets. It seems especially prevalent that many lyrics today slur an "ers" ending of a word into "az" endings. Not only that, but a lot of "rhymes" in pop music, aren't. At most they're para- rhymes: daughter/later, queen/bein', rifmoplet/with you late, and so on. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Sun Aug 13 16:33:54 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 12:33:54 EDT Subject: rifmopletstvo Message-ID: Awful...But, y'know, if it were set to a catchy tune it probably could make it as a hit song. "There's nothing so silly that you can't sing it." (libretto for "The Phantom of the Opera") ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Sun Aug 13 20:45:11 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Sun, 13 Aug 2000 21:45:11 +0100 Subject: Come Undone Message-ID: Just back from vacation so only now aware of this exchange. Unbound hair is also an indication of engagement in magic, usually demonic, both in Russia and in other cultures. It is sometimes specified in the performance of zagovory and in descriptions of witches and female demons such as the triasavitsy. See my Bathhouse at Midnight, index, s.v. hair. Will Ryan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From edraitse at SHIVA.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU Mon Aug 14 16:09:15 2000 From: edraitse at SHIVA.HUNTER.CUNY.EDU (edraitse@shiva.hunter.cuny.edu) Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 12:09:15 -0400 Subject: Russian drama of post-war era Message-ID: Dear Seelangers: Does anybody know where can I find a synopsis of Soviet plays staged in Russian theatres in the period of 1945-55? I am interested in plays for both children and adult audiences, especially those concerning the Cold war issues. For example, "Russkii vopros", "Ia khochu domoi" (I believe, it was Sergey Mikhalkov's), "Snezhok", etc. Thank you in advance. Truly yours, Emil A. Draitser, Professor of Russian Hunter College of CUNY ------------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been posted from Mail2Web http://www.mail2web.com/ Web Hosting for $9.95 per month! Visit: http://www.yourhosting.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ilon at UT.EE Mon Aug 14 22:41:31 2000 From: ilon at UT.EE (Ilon Fraiman) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 01:41:31 +0300 Subject: ruthenia news Message-ID: Dobryj den'! Kak ja i obeschal, redakcija vernulas' iz Latvii v polnom sostave. Privezla s soboj programmku Tynjanovskih chtenij (http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/292994.html) i fotografiju (http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/292993.html). Otchet o Chtenijah budet opublikovan v blizhajshie neskol'ko dnej (ssylka na nego budet dobavlena v soobschenie na stranice http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-08-10#288971), a poka mozhno prochitat' zametku A. Nemzera: http://www.ruthenia.ru/nemzer/TYN.html Korotko o drugih "nemzereskah" sm.: http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-08-15#293933 Naskol'ko mne izvestno, za poslednju'u nedelju bol'she nikakih konferencij ne proizoshlo. Knigi po-prezhnemu prodolzhajut vyhodit': http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-08-15#293917 http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-08-15#293916 Elektronnyj katalog Rossijskoj gosudarstvennoj biblioteki popolnjaetsja besperebojno: http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-08-15#293915 V rubrike "Ssylka nedeli" chitajte o "Slavjanskih drevnostjah": http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/293893.html Zhdite publikacij na etoj nedele. Vsego horoshego, Ilon Fraiman staff at ruthenia.ru http://www.ruthenia.ru/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From alyssa.w.dinega.1 at ND.EDU Tue Aug 15 14:36:10 2000 From: alyssa.w.dinega.1 at ND.EDU (Alyssa Dinega) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:36:10 -0400 Subject: Self-directed Russian study--textbooks? Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I recently received a request from a former student of our university who is doing military service in the Ukraine. He had no prior Russian language exposure but has taught himself some "basic, survival Russian" since his arrival. He would now like suggestions for textbooks and/or workbooks that would help him obtain a solid foundation in the language. He writes that his goal "albeit a difficult one, is fluency in two years." Please let me know if you have any suggestions. Thanks very much, Alyssa Dinega ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From alyssa.w.dinega.1 at ND.EDU Tue Aug 15 16:18:32 2000 From: alyssa.w.dinega.1 at ND.EDU (Alyssa Dinega) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 12:18:32 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, In my previous message I inadvertently used the definite article in referring to Ukraine. The slip was unintentional and reflects in no way my political beliefs. I sincerely apologize if I gave offense to anyone. Alyssa Dinega ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beyer at JAGUAR.MIDDLEBURY.EDU Tue Aug 15 17:21:07 2000 From: beyer at JAGUAR.MIDDLEBURY.EDU (Beyer, Tom) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:21:07 -0400 Subject: Self-directed Russian study--textbooks? Message-ID: A good and serious package of books, tapes and exercises for the independent learner is Express Track to Russian, available from Barrons-or amazon.com > ---------- > From: Alyssa Dinega > Reply To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 10:36 AM > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Self-directed Russian study--textbooks? > > Dear colleagues, > > I recently received a request from a former student of our university who > is doing military service in > the Ukraine. He had no prior Russian language exposure but has taught > himself some "basic, survival > Russian" since his arrival. He would now like suggestions for textbooks > and/or workbooks that would > help him obtain a solid foundation in the language. He writes that his > goal "albeit a difficult one, is > fluency in two years." Please let me know if you have any suggestions. > > Thanks very much, > > Alyssa Dinega > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john.mackay at YALE.EDU Tue Aug 15 17:38:42 2000 From: john.mackay at YALE.EDU (John Mackay) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:38:42 -0400 Subject: boris godunov Message-ID: Does anyone know where a tape of Andrzej Zulawski's version of "Boris Godunov" (1989) might be available? Best, John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Tue Aug 15 17:50:22 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 10:50:22 -0700 Subject: boris godunov In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Do you mean video or audio? Because I know that my local library has it on CD. :) Kat -- Kat Tancock UVic CALL Facility http://web.uvic.ca/hcmc tancockk at uvic.ca > From: John Mackay > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:38:42 -0400 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: boris godunov > > Does anyone know where a tape of Andrzej Zulawski's version of "Boris > Godunov" (1989) might be available? > > Best, > John > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john.mackay at YALE.EDU Tue Aug 15 18:02:35 2000 From: john.mackay at YALE.EDU (John Mackay) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 14:02:35 -0400 Subject: boris godunov In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, Kat -- I mean video. J. On Tue, 15 Aug 2000, Kat Tancock wrote: > Do you mean video or audio? Because I know that my local library has it on > CD. :) > > Kat > -- > Kat Tancock > UVic CALL Facility > http://web.uvic.ca/hcmc > tancockk at uvic.ca > > > From: John Mackay > > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > > > Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 13:38:42 -0400 > > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > > Subject: boris godunov > > > > Does anyone know where a tape of Andrzej Zulawski's version of "Boris > > Godunov" (1989) might be available? > > > > Best, > > John > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Tue Aug 15 20:00:52 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 16:00:52 EDT Subject: Self-directed Russian study--textbooks? Message-ID: Off the subject, really...but have other AOL customers received this, as I have, with the heading, "Self-directed Russian stud.."? If I hadn't seen earlier postings I'd think this rather titillating head was advertising a Russian escort service for lonely ladies. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Tue Aug 15 20:44:57 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 21:44:57 +0100 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: No, you were right first time. Avoid the PC cringe. Why should the mistaken linguistic sensitivities and ignorance of English of various nationalists be allowed to dictate standard English usage (the classical pretension of Rumania is another example). And why should this be in any way indicative of political beliefs? There is nothing offensive about the English definite article. It is THE Netherlands, THE Philippines, THE Falklands, THE Congo, THE United Kingdom, THE Sudan, THE United States of America, and THE Ukraine,(but I agree that contemporary English usage would probably no longer require the article with Gambia). And French and German require the definite article with a number of country names, not all coinciding with the English pattern. I do not think that the French use of L'Angleterre is thought offensive by anglophones who speak of England (Albion perfide is another matter). If there is anything offensive about the name of the Ukraine it is not the English definite article but the word Ukraina itself which implies, from a Muscovite perspective, that it is a mere fringe of (Muscovite) Russia. Why not use Kiev Rus'? Will Ryan, [the] Librarian, [the] Warburg Institute, [the] University of London Alyssa Dinega wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > > In my previous message I inadvertently used the definite article in referring to Ukraine. The slip was > unintentional and reflects in no way my political beliefs. I sincerely apologize if I gave offense to > anyone. > > Alyssa Dinega ################################################################## W. F. Ryan, MA, DPhil, FBA, FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862 8940 (direct) tel: 020 7862 8949 (switchboard) fax: 020 7862 8939 Institute Webpage fttp://www.sas.ac.uk/warburg/ ################################################################## ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rone22 at CLEANWEB.NET Wed Aug 16 04:35:43 2000 From: rone22 at CLEANWEB.NET (Ron Elkin) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:35:43 -0400 Subject: Typing in Russian with an iMac and System 9.04 Message-ID: Dear Friends, I am trying to use The GOLOSA website. I can't figure out how to type Russian. I use an iMac and a Power MaC 8600. I have download different Cyrillic fonts and Keyboard, and installed them in my system and font folder. I have also installed the Cyrillic Language stuff from System 9. What else do I need to do? Sincerely yours, Ron E. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Wed Aug 16 15:12:52 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 08:12:52 -0700 Subject: Typing in Russian with an iMac and System 9.04 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Okay, here's what I've got for it to work for me. I'm using Netscape 4.7 on OS 9. The encoding has to be Cyrillic - Windows. In the Netscape preferences under "fonts", I've selected "pryamoj prop" and "pryamoj" as my fonts. Also, make sure that "Use my fonts..." is selected. I've found these three options to be a major headache in reading Russian - sometimes you have to switch them around. I then switch my keyboard to "Русская - Apple Std". This is not the keyboard that comes with OS 9 (that one isn't translit) - it's one I downloaded from Russification of Macintosh - I assume that's where you downloaded different keyboards. Then you press caps lock and just type, and it should show up as Russian in the blanks. If it's still not working, email me privately and we should be able to figure it out. But be a little more detailed next time. :) Kat > From: Ron Elkin > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 00:35:43 -0400 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Typing in Russian with an iMac and System 9.04 > > Dear Friends, > > I am trying to use The GOLOSA website. I can't figure out how to type > Russian. I use an iMac and a Power MaC 8600. I have download different > Cyrillic fonts and Keyboard, and installed them in my system and font > folder. I have also installed the Cyrillic Language stuff from System 9. > What else do I need to do? > > Sincerely yours, > > Ron E. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Marina_Harss at NEWYORKER.COM Wed Aug 16 17:41:50 2000 From: Marina_Harss at NEWYORKER.COM (Marina Harss) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:41:50 -0400 Subject: Tolstoy query Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, I am trying to find out some information about Tolstoy's residence in Moscow: I know that Leo Tolstoy visited Chekhov when he was recuperating at the Ostroumov Clinic in Moscow. I believe that this clinic is now part of the Moscow Medical School. Do any of you know if Tolstoy's house is near the Moscow Medical School? And do you know how I could find out whether the Ostroumov Clinic is in fact now part of the Moscow Medical School? Thank you very much for your help, Best, Marina THE NEW YORKER ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Wed Aug 16 18:19:57 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 19:19:57 +0100 Subject: Fw: women in eastern europe Message-ID: From: Ildiko Lehtinen To: Andrew Jameson Subject: Re: women in eastern europe Date: 14 August 2000 05:35 Concerning Finno-Ugrian languages speaking peoples in Russia the following books in periodical of the Finno-Ugrian Society in Finland: Lehtinen, Ildikó. Tscheremissischer Schmuck. Ethnographische Untersuchung. (Die Herstellungen und Trägerinnen der Schmucks: Die tscheremissischen Frauen, 173-198). Travaux ethnographiques de la Societe Finno-Ougienne 14, Helsinki 1994. Lehtinen, Ildikó. Marien mekot. Volgansuomalaisten kansanpukujen muutoksista. Travauf de la Societe Finno Ougrienne, 16, Helsinki 1999. Ildikó Lehtinen Museum of Cultures, Helsinki ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Wed Aug 16 18:46:30 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 11:46:30 -0700 Subject: Tolstoy query In-Reply-To: <8525693D.00615818.00@Scarlatti.newyorker.com> Message-ID: I would suggest looking this information up in a travel guide. They always have this sort of information. Kat -- Kat Tancock UVic CALL Facility http://web.uvic.ca/hcmc tancockk at uvic.ca > From: Marina Harss > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:41:50 -0400 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Tolstoy query > > Dear Seelangers, > > I am trying to find out some information about Tolstoy's residence in Moscow: > > > I know that Leo Tolstoy visited Chekhov when he was recuperating at the > Ostroumov Clinic in Moscow. I believe that this clinic is now part of the > Moscow > Medical School. Do any of you know if Tolstoy's house is near the Moscow > Medical > School? And do you know how I could find out whether the Ostroumov Clinic is > in > fact now part of the Moscow Medical School? > > Thank you very much for your help, > > Best, > Marina > > THE NEW YORKER > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.brostrom at WAYNE.EDU Thu Aug 17 02:12:20 2000 From: kenneth.brostrom at WAYNE.EDU (Kenneth Brostrom) Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 22:12:20 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: >No, you were right first time. Avoid the PC cringe. Why should the >mistaken linguistic sensitivities and ignorance of English of various >nationalists be allowed to dictate standard English usage (the classical >pretension of Rumania is another example). And why should this be in any >way indicative of political beliefs? There is nothing offensive about >the English definite article. It is THE Netherlands, THE Philippines, >THE Falklands, THE Congo, THE United Kingdom, THE Sudan, THE United >States of America, and THE Ukraine . . . >If there is anything offensive >about the name of the Ukraine it is not the >English definite article but the word Ukraina itself which implies, from >a Muscovite perspective, that it is a mere fringe of (Muscovite) Russia. >Why not use Kiev Rus'? "Avoid the PC cringe." Doesn't that say it all? Insistance on this extremely narrow understanding of English usage could justify almost any kind of abusive terminology. If Ukrainians who know English well feel strongly that 'the Ukraine' implies recognition and tacit approval of a historical subordination of their homeland to Russia, why should we not honor their preferences? After all, this is not a simple matter of English grammar. To state the painfully obvious, usage is extremely complex--and here it is burdened with negative historical and cultural associations. Rather than introducing a number of analogous usages that are unmarked by such associations (at least in my English), Will Ryan might have discussed the appropriateness of Americans referring to the English as 'Brits,' or more to the point, as 'Limeys.' This is the linguistic region in which 'the Ukraine' exists for many Ukrainians. And to be honest, I "cringe" when I use the term 'Limey.' Alyssa Dinega, I appreciate your sensitivity to this issue, and I think others who would like to see 'Russia' and 'Ukraine' as terms equal in linguistic status among speakers of English will applaud your apology, despite this minor quarrel from the linguistic peanut gallery. Ken Brostrom Kenneth Brostrom Assoc. Prof. of Russian Dept. of German and Slavic Studies 443 Manoogian Hall Wayne State University Detroit, MI 48202 Telephone: (313) 577-6238 FAX (313) 577-3266 E-mail: kenneth.brostrom at wayne.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Thu Aug 17 07:44:08 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (Stephen J. Bobick) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 00:44:08 -0700 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: Kenneth Brostrom wrote: > "Avoid the PC cringe." Doesn't that say it all? Insistance on this > extremely narrow understanding of English usage could justify almost any > kind of abusive terminology. If Ukrainians who know English well feel > strongly that 'the Ukraine' implies recognition and tacit approval of a > historical subordination of their homeland to Russia, why should we not > honor their preferences? After all, this is not a simple matter of English > grammar. To state the painfully obvious, usage is extremely complex--and > here it is burdened with negative historical and cultural associations. > Rather than introducing a number of analogous usages that are unmarked by > such associations (at least in my English), Will Ryan might have discussed > the appropriateness of Americans referring to the English as 'Brits,' or > more to the point, as 'Limeys.' This is the linguistic region in which > 'the Ukraine' exists for many Ukrainians. And to be honest, I "cringe" > when I use the term 'Limey.' Alyssa Dinega, I appreciate your sensitivity > to this issue, and I think others who would like to see 'Russia' and > 'Ukraine' as terms equal in linguistic status among speakers of English > will applaud your apology, despite this minor quarrel from the linguistic > peanut gallery. Well said. I only have a little to add in response to the original callous, inflammatory diatribe: >>Why should the mistaken linguistic sensitivities and ignorance of English >>of various nationalists be allowed to dictate standard English usage It seems the original author is taking some liberties here, especially in generalizations and presumptions. Many Ukrainians who protest the use of the article "the" are fluent in English. Indeed, quite a few of them were born and raised in Canada, the USA and even the UK. These people are hardly "ignorant of English". As for the use of "nationalist" in the above sentence, even those who are "ignorant of English" will readily see this as an attempt to demonize Ukrainians who are sensitive to the use of "the Ukraine", and thus negate their opinion, since it must follow that they are only some type of irrational extremists, or other nasty types. Speaking as a patriotic US citizen, I can state without a doubt that the only "nationalist" feelings I have for Ukraine relate to its right to exist as a sovereign, self-governing nation, free from external meddling in its affairs. Interesting, but despite my lack of "ignorance of English" and "nationalist" (in the negative sense) sentiments, I still find "the Ukraine" to be insulting. -- Stephen Bobick ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Thu Aug 17 13:38:26 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 09:38:26 -0400 Subject: What is a "rifmoplet"? Message-ID: If anybody knows any sources for rifmoplet type poetry, I'm interested! Perhaps there are popular songwriters in Russia that could be qualified as "rifmoplet"? Mostly, I'd be looking for ones that rhyme. [and I'm 'good' at writing bad poetry - in English anyhow - so I think I'd be in good company!] moi almaz, krasivij almaz vodolaz ego gaz? ehkstaz! ej rasskaz - pereskaz no tol'ka odin raz. pokaz i napokaz? zaraz! pachimu? moi glaz! odin prikaz: dajte mne moi almaz! Ax! ehkstaz! I betcha this is not only grammatically incorrect, but worse than something a rifmoplet could produce. -Kenneth, whose English poetry is only slightly better, but not much! :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Thu Aug 17 17:00:15 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:00:15 +0100 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: The two recent objectors to my message about the use of the English definite article in the name of the Ukraine have overreacted and apparently not read very carefully what I said. I speak as a longtime and fervent believer in the cultural independence of the Ukraine and Belarus, with a good many friends of both nationalities, and happy memories of a visit to the Ukrainian Research Institute at Harvard. I am happy that those two lands have now achieved political independence (more or less) and am on record in several places as pointing out that the view of ‘Russia’ as a continuum stretching from Kiev Rus’ to the USSR , as it appears in most Great Russian (and quite a lot of Western) historiography, is erroneous. As I understand it from the press, the demand for removal of the English definite article came in fact from the Ukrainian foreign ministry. I can only imagine that they took this strange step as a result of representations from North American activists, since it can hardly matter much to them at home. Are North American Ukrainian nationalists like North American Irish nationalists, i.e. much more 'patriotic' than their counterparts back home (I speak as an occasional Irishman)? The point I thought I had made is that the use of the definite article in English (and French, e.g. ‘La France’ and German, e.g. ‘die Schweiz’) is not thought to be offensive in other placename contexts and in fact cannot by itself be offensive, as the analogues demonstrate, e.g. the Dutch do not object to ‘The Netherlands’ (and are tolerant even of our sloppy and incorrect use of ‘Holland’). English speakers neither intend to offend nor perceive any grounds for offence in the use of the definite article - 'The Ukraine' it is simply the name which we have always used. And since neither Russian nor Ukrainian have articles the alleged offensive connotation cannot arise in those languages either. The fact is that the English definite article cannot in any way suggest subordination to Russia (which I gather is the reason for all this) - but the word ‘Ukraina’ certainly does suggest a peripheral status. It is therefore illogical to ban the use of the semantically blameless English article while keeping the semantically loaded noun. A new state name (my suggestion of Kiev Rus', though light-hearted, was not entirely frivolous) would solve that problem, although it would leave anglophone writers still with a problem of appropriate usage in writing in historical and geographical contexts before the adoption of the new state name - an awkwardness which has already arisen in the case of Belarus, where the appropriateness of ‘Belarusian’ in medieval contexts is very dubious. As a member of a minority in another multiracial community, I do not have to be told that the terminology of race is a subtle, often illogical, and fast changing area which has to be handled sensitively. But this is NOT about terminology of race - place names are not at all the same thing, the problems of usage are different, particularly in historical writing, and are subject to different pressures. If the perceived offence lies in the use of the definite article and nothing else then presumably this must apply to every language which has a definite article. Perhaps other participants in SEELANGS could let us know if the Germans are now also obliged to remove the article from ‘die Ukraine’ and the French from ‘l’Ukraine’? In French in particular the definite article is widely used with names of countries; to leave them out would sound very odd and ungrammatical - has the Academie Francaise expressed an opinion? In fact, is what is perceived as politically correct in some US circles to be imposed as linguistically correct not only on the whole English-speaking world but also on all other countries as well? Now that really is culturally offensive! Will Ryan ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Professor W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Thu Aug 17 18:35:14 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:35:14 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: <399C1A1F.19688DA@sas.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, William Ryan wrote: > The fact is that the English definite article cannot in any way suggest > subordination to Russia (which I gather is the reason for all this) - but the "The" Ukraine implies subordination. Examples like "the USA" and "the Netherlands" do not, because they are plural and require the article. No other nation has "the" in front of its name (unless it too is some colonialist anachronism like "the Gambia" - which I rarely hear). > word �Ukraina� certainly does suggest a peripheral status. It is therefore > illogical to ban the use of the semantically blameless English article while > keeping the semantically loaded noun. The etymology of "Ukrayina" is much more complicated than at first glance. One interpretation I have heard is that during the time of "Kyyivs'ka Rus'" the latter was "at the edge of civilization" - all lands to the east and north were uncivilized. I have heard other theories and explanations, as well. > A new state name (my suggestion of Kiev Rus', > though light-hearted, was not entirely frivolous) would solve that > problem, although it would leave anglophone writers still with a problem of > appropriate usage in writing in historical and geographical contexts before the > adoption of the new state name - an awkwardness which has already arisen in the > case of Belarus, where the appropriateness of �Belarusian� in medieval contexts > is very dubious. You mean Kyyivs'ka Rus'? What you have suggested will irritate the Ukrainian "nationalists" even more than "the Ukraine". > As a member of a minority in another multiracial community, I do not have > to be told that the terminology of race is a subtle, often illogical, and fast > changing area which has to be handled sensitively. But this is NOT about > terminology of race - place names are not at all the same thing, The implication of "the Ukraine" for many Ukrainians is that Ukraine is a subordinate of Russia, and Ukrainians are "malorus". It thus immediately becomes an ethnic insult. So this is about race - or at least ethnicity - and culture. -- Stephen Bobick ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pyz at PANIX.COM Thu Aug 17 19:18:38 2000 From: pyz at PANIX.COM (pyz at PANIX.COM) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 15:18:38 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: <399C1A1F.19688DA@sas.ac.uk> from "William Ryan" at Aug 17, 2000 06:00:15 PM Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, William Ryan wrote: > The two recent objectors to my message about the use of the English definite > article in the name of the Ukraine have overreacted and apparently not read > very carefully what I said. > I speak as a longtime and fervent believer in the cultural independence of > the Ukraine and Belarus, with a good many friends of both nationalities, and > happy memories of a visit to the Ukrainian Research Institute at Harvard. I am > happy that those two lands have now achieved political independence (more or > less) and am on record in several places as pointing out that the view of > ^QRussia^R as a continuum stretching from Kiev Rus^R to the USSR , as it appears > in most Great Russian (and quite a lot of Western) historiography, is > erroneous. > As I understand it from the press, the demand for removal of the English > definite article came in fact from the Ukrainian foreign ministry. I can only > imagine that they took this strange step as a result of representations from > North American activists, since it can hardly matter much to them at home. Are > North American Ukrainian nationalists like North American Irish nationalists, > i.e. much more 'patriotic' than their counterparts back home (I speak as an > occasional Irishman)? How about it being just a case of proper English? General rule - In English, unless it is a collective entity the names of sovreign states do not take the definite article. Territories, btw do. So ... The United States The Phillipines The United Kingdom The Netherlands The Russian Federation are correct. At one time when certain states were territories of such things as empires it may have been apropos to use the definite article. "The Argentine" solved it by becoming Argentina; the Lebanon somewhere along the way began to sound ackward. That hasn't wholly happened yet with Ukraine. By saying "the" Ukraine you are implying that it is a territory rather than a sovreign state. However, it pleases me to see that at least U.S. periodicals are far ahead in there refrainment of the usage of "the" than their British counterparts. Btw, the only names which I find to be problematic with the above rule are The Czech Republic, and The Dominican Republic. Obliged to anyone who can offer a reasonable explanation. > The point I thought I had made is that the use of the definite article in > English (and French, e.g. ^QLa France^R and German, e.g. ^Qdie Schweiz^R) is not > thought to be offensive in other placename contexts and in fact cannot by > itself be offensive, as the analogues demonstrate, e.g. the Dutch do not object > to ^QThe Netherlands^R (and are tolerant even of our sloppy and incorrect use of > ^QHolland^R). English speakers neither intend to offend nor perceive any grounds > for offence in the use of the definite article - 'The Ukraine' it is simply the > name which we have always used. And since neither Russian nor Ukrainian have > articles the alleged offensive connotation cannot arise in those languages > either. > The fact is that the English definite article cannot in any way suggest > subordination to Russia (which I gather is the reason for all this) - but the > word ^QUkraina^R certainly does suggest a peripheral status. It also means, at least in Ukrainian, "in the land" or "in the country". > It is therefore > illogical to ban the use of the semantically blameless English article while > keeping the semantically loaded noun. A new state name (my suggestion of Kiev > Rus', though light-hearted, was not entirely frivolous) would solve that > problem, although it would leave anglophone writers still with a problem of > appropriate usage in writing in historical and geographical contexts before the > adoption of the new state name - an awkwardness which has already arisen in the > case of Belarus, where the appropriateness of ^QBelarusian^R in medieval contexts > is very dubious. > As a member of a minority in another multiracial community, I do not have > to be told that the terminology of race is a subtle, often illogical, and fast > changing area which has to be handled sensitively. But this is NOT about > terminology of race - place names are not at all the same thing, the problems > of usage are different, particularly in historical writing, and are subject to > different pressures. If the perceived offence lies in the use of the definite > article and nothing else then presumably this must apply to every language > which has a definite article. Other languages have different rules of usage, hence interjecting rationals from French and German are irrelevant. > Perhaps other participants in SEELANGS could let > us know if the Germans are now also obliged to remove the article from ^Qdie > Ukraine^R and the French from ^Ql^RUkraine^R? In French in particular the definite > article is widely used with names of countries; to leave them out would sound > very odd and ungrammatical - has the Academie Francaise expressed an opinion? > In fact, is what is perceived as politically correct in some US circles to be > imposed as linguistically correct not only on the whole English-speaking world > but also on all other countries as well? Now that really is culturally > offensive! > Will Ryan > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Professor W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA > Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) > Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB > tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. > fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. > The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elspeth at FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU Thu Aug 17 19:46:40 2000 From: elspeth at FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU (Elizabeth B. Naime) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 14:46:40 -0500 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: <200008171918.PAA28069@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 pyz at PANIX.COM wrote: > General rule - In English, unless it is a collective entity the names > of sovreign states do not take the definite article. Territories, btw do. Interesting. I'd never really thought about why, for example, it's The Netherlands and yet Holland (no article).0 > Btw, the only names which I find to be problematic with the above rule are > The Czech Republic, and The Dominican Republic. Obliged to anyone who can > offer a reasonable explanation. Because "Republic" is explicitly part of the name? Elizabeth Naime ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sp27 at CORNELL.EDU Thu Aug 17 20:21:33 2000 From: sp27 at CORNELL.EDU (Slava Paperno) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 16:21:33 -0400 Subject: audio CD recordings of Russian literary classics Message-ID: Audio recordings (on compact discs) of several Russian authors are now available from Lexicon Bridge Publishers: Pushkin, Gogol, Bulgakov, Il'f and Petrov, Kharms, and others. Two of the titles include Russian fairy tales. The recordings were made by a prominent actor at the Taganka theater in Moscow. Some of the longer texts are somewhat abridged; some titles are on single CDs, but some span as many as eight discs. For details, please visit http://lexiconbridge.com Slava Paperno ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From krylya at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Aug 17 20:29:23 2000 From: krylya at HOTMAIL.COM (Rodney Patterson) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:29:23 GMT Subject: Tolstoy query Message-ID: To the best of my knowledge, Tolstoj's house (now the L. N. Museum -- Muzej-usad' ba L. N. Tolstogo) on ulitsa L'va Tolstogo, no. 21, is a little more than a block away from the First Medical Institute (Pervvyj medicinskij institute) on Bol'shaja Pirogovskaja ul. 2/6. Ostroumov's clinic was there and this distinguished doctor taught there from 1871-1903. He died in 1908. From Tolstoj's house, which the writer bought in 1882 and spent all his winters there through 1901, one needs to walk north-east to where ul. L'va Tolstogo ends at Bol'shaja Pirogovskaja, turn right, walk a block, cross ul. Timura, and the Institute will be to your right. For verification of dates, residences, etc., I suggest you visit the Gosudarstvennyj muzej L. N. Tolstogo on Prechistinka, no. 11, phone / fax 202-93-38, and / or the Filial Gos. muzej L. N. Tolstogo on Pjatnickaya ulitsa, #22, phone 951-74-02. Good luck! Rodney L. Patterso Associate Professor of Slavic Languages and Literatures State University of New York at Albany Aleksej Aleksandrovich Ostroumov worked / taught from 1871-1903 at what is now (or the last I knew) the Pervvyj medicinskij institute on Bol'shaja Pirogovskaja ul. 2/6. Died 1908. >From: Marina Harss >Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: Tolstoy query >Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 13:41:50 -0400 > >Dear Seelangers, > >I am trying to find out some information about Tolstoy's residence in >Moscow: > > >I know that Leo Tolstoy visited Chekhov when he was recuperating at the >Ostroumov Clinic in Moscow. I believe that this clinic is now part of the >Moscow >Medical School. Do any of you know if Tolstoy's house is near the Moscow >Medical >School? And do you know how I could find out whether the Ostroumov Clinic >is in >fact now part of the Moscow Medical School? > >Thank you very much for your help, > >Best, >Marina > >THE NEW YORKER > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Thu Aug 17 23:59:26 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:59:26 -0500 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: << As I understand it from the press, the demand for removal of the English definite article came in fact from the Ukrainian foreign ministry. I can only imagine that they took this strange step as a result of representations from North American activists, since it can hardly matter much to them at home. Are North American Ukrainian nationalists like North American Irish nationalists, i.e. much more 'patriotic' than their counterparts back home (I speak as an occasional Irishman)? The point I thought I had made is that the use of the definite article in English (and French, e.g. 'La France' and German, e.g. 'die Schweiz') is not thought to be offensive in other placename contexts and in fact cannot by itself be offensive, as the analogues demonstrate, e.g. the Dutch do not object to 'The Netherlands' (and are tolerant even of our sloppy and incorrect use of 'Holland'>>> I agree wholeheartedly. Here I have my small comment. Before the collapse of the Soviet Union (BTW, it was THE Soviet Union), it was normal both in Russian and Ukrainian to say "na Ukraine". With the advent of independence, this colonial and humiliating expression was changed by Kiev's linguists to "v Ukraine" both in Russian and English for the official use. In Belarus, however, the situation was absolutely different. Here the colonial "v Belorusii" (in Russian) and "u Belarusi" (Belarusian) was officially changed to "na Belorussii" (Russian) and "na Belarusi" (Belarussian) by the linguists from the Academy of Sciences. Yes, independence can be quite inspirational for linguists. Pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Fri Aug 18 00:30:03 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:30:03 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: <001a01c008a7$2c9bc2e0$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Pavel Samsonov wrote: > Before the collapse of the Soviet Union (BTW, it was THE Soviet Union), it > was normal both in Russian and Ukrainian to say "na Ukraine". With the Actually, in Ukrainian, it was normal to say "na Ukrayini". > advent of independence, this colonial and humiliating expression was changed > by Kiev's linguists to "v Ukraine" both in Russian and English for the > official use. Actually, Kyiv's linguists changed it to "v Ukrayini" (v/u cherhuyut'sya za pravyla mylozvuchosti). Shche raz zauvazhuyu, yak lehko ce ochevydno rusijs'kocentrychynm znavcyam umalyaty pochuvannya ukrayinciv vidnosno obraz proty nykh (ukrayinciv). -- Stepan Bobyk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Aug 18 00:32:52 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:32:52 -0500 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: > On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Pavel Samsonov wrote: > > Before the collapse of the Soviet Union (BTW, it was THE Soviet Union), it > > was normal both in Russian and Ukrainian to say "na Ukraine". With the > > Actually, in Ukrainian, it was normal to say "na Ukrayini". > > > advent of independence, this colonial and humiliating expression was changed > > by Kiev's linguists to "v Ukraine" both in Russian and English for the > > official use. > > Actually, Kyiv's linguists changed it to "v Ukrayini" (v/u > cherhuyut'sya za pravyla mylozvuchosti). > > Shche raz zauvazhuyu, yak lehko ce ochevydno rusijs'kocentrychynm znavcyam > umalyaty pochuvannya ukrayinciv vidnosno obraz proty nykh (ukrayinciv). > > -- Stepan Bobyk There is nothing "rusijskocentrychnogo" in my message. The feelings of Ukrainians have nothing to do with the propositipons "na" and "v". I love Kiev and find it much nicer and much more hospitable and intellectual than Moscow. I have been there many times and I defended my dissertation at Lviv University, which was one of my best life experiences. What I disagree with is confusing politics with linguistics. Even Stalin (who was extremely "russo-centric") discriminated between politics and linguistics. Pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Fri Aug 18 00:47:03 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 20:47:03 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: <000f01c008ab$d8a20320$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Pavel Samsonov wrote: > There is nothing "rusijskocentrychnogo" in my message. Yes there is. All your examples were in Russian, not Ukrainian. You spell "Kiev" according to its old name, etc. And I attach no negative connotations to "russocentric". > I love Kiev and find it much nicer and much more hospitable and intellectual > than Moscow. I have been there many times and I defended my dissertation at > Lviv University, which was one of my best life experiences. ^^^^ It looks like the halychany have rubbed off on you - and moved your center of axis a bit as well. :-) -- Stepan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Aug 18 00:57:26 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 19:57:26 -0500 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: > > Yes there is. All your examples were in Russian, not Ukrainian. You > spell "Kiev" according to its old name, etc. I am sorry. But Kiev is a perfectly correct spelling (in English). I could not put Kiev in English because there is not letter "i" with two dots on top (like "umlaut") in my Outlook Express program. Yes, and Lviv's people were nice to me. I fell in love with the university, with its high standards, traditions and splendor: this is probably the only university in the F.S.U. where people address each other as "Professor Zadorozhny" or "Docent Bujnicka". This was great. Besides, I found that so many people had actually READ my dissertation, which would have been quite unusual in Moscow or Minsk > It looks like the halychany have rubbed off on you - and moved your center > of axis a bit as well. :-) Yes, maybe. Lviv was too good to be true. However, removing "the" from "Ukraine" is funny. This reminds me of the wild protests of US feminist students who demanded "equal representation of cadavers in the Anatomy class" (there were more male cadavers at that medical college). When it is funny, it is funny. Pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM Fri Aug 18 13:01:29 2000 From: kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM (richard tomback) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 09:01:29 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: Dear Members; Could some one recommend a source for texts in the Old Russian language, in the old Cyrillic script. Thanks, Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Fri Aug 18 14:30:06 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:30:06 +0900 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: <399C1A1F.19688DA@sas.ac.uk> (message from William Ryan on Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:00:15 +0100) Message-ID: Dear Ryan, While I totally agree with you, I want you to be aware you cannot persuade politically or emotionally motivated people. Whatever your intentions may be, if someone feels having been hurt by your language, you should either adapt to them or disassociate with them. Japanese feel insulted when addresssed as Jap, and the Japanese Olympic committe decided to print the name of the country on athlete's clothes as Nippon, not being aware that Nip sounds even worse in England (but not to the uneducated Japanese ears). The government of Communist China always makes great noises whenever someone in Japan uses a traditional Japanese name for China (Shina), and demands every Japanese to say "centrum mundi" because no other denomination can satisfy them. As a principle, I always try to keep away from people who do not understand that any word can have any emotional contents. I heard blackman was normal a hundred years ago, but was replaced by negro, and again to the first (I haven't heard African in England since they usually come from the Carribean). Everytime the word was changed, the pretext was with neutral, non-emotional, -- rather euphemistic -- term. Cheers, Tsuji ytsuji at online.ru ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Marina_Harss at NEWYORKER.COM Fri Aug 18 14:36:08 2000 From: Marina_Harss at NEWYORKER.COM (Marina Harss) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:36:08 -0400 Subject: query Message-ID: Dear Sirs, How do I un-subscribe from the Slavic listserve? Thanks, Marina ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at HOME.COM Fri Aug 18 16:11:59 2000 From: ggerhart at HOME.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 09:11:59 -0700 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: <200008181425.HAA26308@mx3-rwc.mail.home.com> Message-ID: Yeay, Tsuji! who said, "you cannot persuade politically or emotionally motivated people." Absolutely right! They do not understand that the meaning of a word is its use. Thus, the Japanese rightfully complain about the word "Jap" because the word _was_ used as an insult. The Ukrainians wrongfully complain because "the Ukraine" was _never_ an insult, it was merely the name for the place. Genevra Gerhart http://www.wolfenet.com/~ggerhart New email address: ggerhart at home.com 206-329-0053 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Yoshimasa Tsuji Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 7:30 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: textbook recommendation Dear Ryan, While I totally agree with you, I want you to be aware you cannot persuade politically or emotionally motivated people. Whatever your intentions may be, if someone feels having been hurt by your language, you should either adapt to them or disassociate with them. Japanese feel insulted when addresssed as Jap, and the Japanese Olympic committe decided to print the name of the country on athlete's clothes as Nippon, not being aware that Nip sounds even worse in England (but not to the uneducated Japanese ears). The government of Communist China always makes great noises whenever someone in Japan uses a traditional Japanese name for China (Shina), and demands every Japanese to say "centrum mundi" because no other denomination can satisfy them. As a principle, I always try to keep away from people who do not understand that any word can have any emotional contents. I heard blackman was normal a hundred years ago, but was replaced by negro, and again to the first (I haven't heard African in England since they usually come from the Carribean). Everytime the word was changed, the pretext was with neutral, non-emotional, -- rather euphemistic -- term. Cheers, Tsuji ytsuji at online.ru ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Aug 18 15:59:07 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 10:59:07 -0500 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: > Dear Ryan, > While I totally agree with you, I want you to be aware you cannot > persuade politically or emotionally motivated people. Whatever your > intentions may be, if someone feels having been hurt by your language, > you should either adapt to them or disassociate with them. > Japanese feel insulted when addresssed as Jap, and the Japanese > Olympic committe decided to print the name of the country on athlete's > clothes as Nippon, not being aware that Nip sounds even worse in > England (but not to the uneducated Japanese ears). > The government of Communist China always makes great noises whenever > someone in Japan uses a traditional Japanese name for China (Shina), and > demands every Japanese to say "centrum mundi" because no other denomination > can satisfy them. > As a principle, I always try to keep away from people who do not > understand that any word can have any emotional contents. I heard > blackman was normal a hundred years ago, but was replaced by negro, > and again to the first (I haven't heard African in England since they > usually come from the Carribean). Everytime the word was changed, the pretext > was with neutral, non-emotional, -- rather euphemistic -- term. > > Cheers, > Tsuji Actually we run here into the area where no "scientific criteria" (if such do exist) can be applicable. It is "correct" versus "politically correct" (and what is "correct?"), it is emotions against reason. If Ukrainians feel that the definite article is detrimental for the image of their newly independent state - they probably know it best. Nationalist feelings are among the most intimate and irrational and they are hard to approach from the positions of "reason" or "science". It is just like Forrest Gump who was told that his father was "on vacations", and that made him proud of his father. When I read articles on the history of Belarus written by nationalists I sometimes find many things hard to agree. A lot seems too far-fetched and mythical. But if these myths are likely to boost the national pride of Belarusians and promote their national consciousness - this probably is fine. When I hear that black Africa was highly developed and culturally and scientifically sophisticated and then the white colonizers came and ruined everything, well... I feel I'd better hold my tongue. On the one hand, I don't want to be labeled as "racist", on the other - well, I believe people should be always proud of their ancestry no matter what it has been in "reality" (I have no definition of "reality", just like I have no definition of "the truth"). Pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pyz at PANIX.COM Fri Aug 18 16:18:16 2000 From: pyz at PANIX.COM (pyz at PANIX.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:18:16 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: from "Genevra Gerhart" at Aug 18, 2000 09:11:59 AM Message-ID: > > Yeay, Tsuji! > who said, "you cannot persuade politically or emotionally motivated people." > Absolutely right! They do not understand that the meaning of a word is its > use. > Thus, the Japanese rightfully complain about the word "Jap" because the word > _was_ used as an insult. > The Ukrainians wrongfully complain because "the Ukraine" was _never_ an > insult, it was merely the name for the place. "The Ukraine" was appropriate when it was a territory of the Russian Empire. Are you saying it still is? > Genevra Gerhart > > http://www.wolfenet.com/~ggerhart > New email address: ggerhart at home.com > 206-329-0053 Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at HOME.COM Fri Aug 18 16:42:14 2000 From: ggerhart at HOME.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 09:42:14 -0700 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: <200008181618.JAA03092@mx10-rwc.mail.home.com> Message-ID: I said it was _never_ an insult. It was the name for the place, and allegiance or possession had nothing to with it. What you are listening to is a descriptive grammarian who tried to make rules so non-native speakers could more quickly use, or not use, "the" in most cases. Genevra Gerhart http://www.wolfenet.com/~ggerhart New email address: ggerhart at home.com 206-329-0053 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of pyz at PANIX.COM Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 9:18 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: textbook recommendation > > Yeay, Tsuji! > who said, "you cannot persuade politically or emotionally motivated people." > Absolutely right! They do not understand that the meaning of a word is its > use. > Thus, the Japanese rightfully complain about the word "Jap" because the word > _was_ used as an insult. > The Ukrainians wrongfully complain because "the Ukraine" was _never_ an > insult, it was merely the name for the place. "The Ukraine" was appropriate when it was a territory of the Russian Empire. Are you saying it still is? > Genevra Gerhart > > http://www.wolfenet.com/~ggerhart > New email address: ggerhart at home.com > 206-329-0053 Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pyz at PANIX.COM Fri Aug 18 16:37:54 2000 From: pyz at PANIX.COM (pyz at PANIX.COM) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 12:37:54 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: from "Genevra Gerhart" at Aug 18, 2000 09:42:14 AM Message-ID: > > I said it was _never_ an insult. It was the name for the place, and It was the name for a territory of the Russian Empire, consequently "the" was appropriate. Is it still appropriate now? > allegiance or possession had nothing to with it. What you are listening to > is a descriptive grammarian who tried to make rules so non-native speakers > could more quickly use, or not use, "the" in most cases. > Genevra Gerhart > > http://www.wolfenet.com/~ggerhart > New email address: ggerhart at home.com > 206-329-0053 Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of pyz at PANIX.COM > Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 9:18 AM > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: textbook recommendation > > > > > > Yeay, Tsuji! > > who said, "you cannot persuade politically or emotionally motivated > people." > > Absolutely right! They do not understand that the meaning of a word is its > > use. > > Thus, the Japanese rightfully complain about the word "Jap" because the > word > > _was_ used as an insult. > > The Ukrainians wrongfully complain because "the Ukraine" was _never_ an > > insult, it was merely the name for the place. > > "The Ukraine" was appropriate when it was a territory of the Russian Empire. > > Are you saying it still is? > > > Genevra Gerhart > > > > http://www.wolfenet.com/~ggerhart > > New email address: ggerhart at home.com > > 206-329-0053 > > > > Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine > pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Fri Aug 18 01:58:11 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Martha Sherwood) Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 18:58:11 -0700 Subject: Definite articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would suppose that in the cases cited, since the key word is Republic, and Czech and Dominican are adjectival modifiers denoting a specific republic, the definite article is appropriate. Use of the definite article for place names in uncommon in English, but 'The Bronx', originally going up to see the Bronck's family, who were major landholders in what later became that borough, and The Dalles (French, the rapids, a major impediment to navigation on the Columbia river) deserve mention. -Martha Sherwood- On Thu, 17 Aug 2000, Elizabeth B. Naime wrote: > On Thu, 17 Aug 2000 pyz at PANIX.COM wrote: > > > General rule - In English, unless it is a collective entity the names > > of sovreign states do not take the definite article. Territories, btw do. > > Interesting. I'd never really thought about why, for example, it's The > Netherlands and yet Holland (no article).0 > > > Btw, the only names which I find to be problematic with the above rule are > > The Czech Republic, and The Dominican Republic. Obliged to anyone who can > > offer a reasonable explanation. > > Because "Republic" is explicitly part of the name? > > Elizabeth Naime > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Fri Aug 18 17:47:09 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:47:09 -0400 Subject: FW: Web Site of Interest Message-ID: From: Lee B. Abraham [mailto:labraham at unm.edu] Sent: Friday, August 18, 2000 1:24 PM To: sct-l2l at coe.uga.edu Subject: Web Site of Interest The ERIC Clearinghouse on Languages and Linguistics is pleased to announce the product of our special project with the National Clearinghouse for Bilingual Education, the Directory of Resources for Foreign Language Programs. Visit the Directory at http://www.cal.org/ericcll/ncbe/fldirectory for reliable, up-to-date links to Web sites, online publications, publishers, instructional materials, programs, listservs, databases and other resources for improving foreign language programs. We encourage readers to send us information about new links to add and to give us feedback on format, contents, and usefulness. The email address for questions and suggestions is flresources at cal.org. Kathleen Kathleen M. Marcos, Assistant Director Editor, ERIC/CLL Language Link ERIC Clearinghouse on Languages and Linguistics 4646 40th Street, NW Washington, DC 20016-1859 Tel: 800-276-9834 / 202-362-0700 Fax: 202-362-3740 E-Mail: kathleen at cal.org ************************************************************ Visit our web site at http://www.cal.org/ericcll ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Fri Aug 18 17:50:20 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:50:20 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Genevra Gerhart wrote: > I said it was _never_ an insult. It was the name for the place, and It is perceived as an insult now - especially when someone insists on using the term after being asked NOT to. -- Stepan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Fri Aug 18 18:27:03 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 11:27:03 -0700 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, relax. If Canadians can sit through that entire South Park movie and even laugh, Ukrainians can certainly understand a slip of the tongue. Most people say "the Ukraine" as an old habit, not as a means of stating that they think Ukrainians are nothing but a subset of Russians. It will slowly slip out of usage, and that's a natural part of the evolution of languages. It's certainly not something that should be ignored, especially in written publications, but in email or conversation?! I think we all have better things to do and think about that this. And if not, we need to reevaluate. Kat -- Kat Tancock UVic CALL Facility http://web.uvic.ca/hcmc tancockk at uvic.ca > From: VShell > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 13:50:20 -0400 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: textbook recommendation > > On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Genevra Gerhart wrote: > >> I said it was _never_ an insult. It was the name for the place, and > > It is perceived as an insult now - especially when someone insists on > using the term after being asked NOT to. > > -- Stepan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Fri Aug 18 18:40:43 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:40:43 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Kat Tancock wrote: > Most > people say "the Ukraine" as an old habit, not as a means of stating that > they think Ukrainians are nothing but a subset of Russians. I am not addressing those who belong to the subset "most". As I stated previously, it's when they "insist on using the term after being asked NOT to". And for the record, I recognized the original posting that started this thread as a "slip up", and did not comment on it, nor to the author via private correspondence. It was only when the intransigent postings began arriving (how dare ignorant Ukrainian nationalists dictate English grammatical usage) that I reacted. > It will slowly > slip out of usage, and that's a natural part of the evolution of languages. > It's certainly not something that should be ignored, especially in written > publications, but in email or conversation?! I think we all have better > things to do and think about that this. And if not, we need to reevaluate. Don't patronize me. I can evaluate my priorities and allocation of time resources on my own just fine. I also can and do relax - and its not for you to tell me when or how. -- Stepan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at WANADOO.FR Fri Aug 18 20:36:39 2000 From: gadassov at WANADOO.FR (Adassovsky Georges) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:36:39 +0100 Subject: Definite articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In my opinion (and in the opinion of some linguists who teached me), grammar rules come from the way people speak, and are recorded by linguists. Languages stand on usage, and not on some rule a politician, a grammarian, or anybody, decides to impose. In France, the names of functions may be masculine or feminine gender. Feminists felt offended when a woman occuppied a function which has masculine gender. So, instead of tell "Madame le ministre", they imposed, against the Académie Française opinion, to tell "Madame LA ministre". That seems just ridiculous : will we say "le sentinelle" instead of "la sentinelle" because it is most often a masculine function? The gender of nouns comes most often from the ancient Latin declinensions, and has nothing to do with the sex of the person who do the job. But in the case of "the Ukraine", it seems to be even more ridiculous, as politicians from one country try to dictate how a foreign nation must speak in its own language. Now, why the English speaking people say "the Czeck Republic"? I suppose because it is not ANY republic, but THE Czeck. "Czeck" is an adjective. Why "the Congo"? Maybe because of the Congo river. Why "the Crimea"? Maybe because of the Crimea peninsula. Why "The Ukraine"? I don't know. Georges ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john.mackay at YALE.EDU Fri Aug 18 19:32:59 2000 From: john.mackay at YALE.EDU (John Mackay) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:32:59 -0400 Subject: Definite articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Why "The Ukraine"? I don't know. > >Good question. Does anyone know the history of this usage? j. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Fri Aug 18 19:42:55 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 15:42:55 -0400 Subject: Definite articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Adassovsky Georges wrote: > In my opinion (and in the opinion of some linguists who teached me), > grammar rules come from the way people speak, and are recorded by > linguists. Languages stand on usage... And the "way people speak" is affected by social, political and cultural influences. As these influences change and assert themselves, so does usage, and, eventually grammar rules. In the case of "the Ukraine" there have been arguments posed here that the grammar rule requires "the" to be stricken since Ukraine is now independent. I have seen little if any refutation of these rules - participants only throw out (supposed) counterexamples. So, the issue is really whether usage, which violates a grammar rule, will fall in line or whether the usage will force an exception to the rule. -- Stepan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cinkhars at QUEENCITY.COM Fri Aug 18 20:35:33 2000 From: cinkhars at QUEENCITY.COM (Dave Brokaw) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:35:33 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: Can someone tell me why in English the two "c's" in Cincinnati are pronounced as "s's," but in Russian and Ukrainian, as far as I have seen, the two "c's" are translated as "ts's"? Was the name of the Roman general after whom Cincinnati is named pronounced Tsintsinnatus in Latin? Just curious. David Brokaw Office Manager Cincinnati(or Tsintsinnati)-Kharkiv Sister City Project ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU Fri Aug 18 21:00:46 2000 From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (Wayles Browne) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:00:46 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: <003501c00953$f1615fc0$0ce4d23f@ckscp> Message-ID: >Can someone tell me why in English the two "c's" in Cincinnati are >pronounced as "s's," but in Russian and Ukrainian, as far as I have seen, >the two "c's" are translated as "ts's"? > >Was the name of the Roman general after whom Cincinnati is named pronounced >Tsintsinnatus in Latin? > >Just curious. > >David Brokaw >Office Manager >Cincinnati(or Tsintsinnati)-Kharkiv Sister City Project In the Latin of the ancient Romans it was pronounced Kinkinnatus, but in medieval Latin as used by educated people in Europe ki was pronounced tsi in some regions, chi in others (same way for c+e: ancient pronunciation ke, medieval tse or che). And the modern languages pronounce Latin according to the medieval custom. Only in France did ki and ke come to be pronounced si and se, and the English-speaking people picked that up from the French. Best wishes Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics Department of Linguistics Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dworth at UCLA.EDU Fri Aug 18 21:19:38 2000 From: dworth at UCLA.EDU (Dean Worth) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 14:19:38 -0700 Subject: Definite articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Re the "the" the discussion about (the) Ukraine seems to me to be on the wrong level: it has nothing to do with grammatical rules, and everything to do with simple good manners. I have a friend named Robert Winter, and he prefers to be called Robert, not Bob, so I call him Robert, which costs me but a single extra syllable once a month or so. If our Ukrainian friends and colleagues prefer to refer to their country as Ukraine, without the article, why can't we do it their way, just to be obliging? After all, it's not as if they were asking for Saskatchewan. Dean Worth At 03:42 PM 8/18/00 -0400, you wrote: >On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Adassovsky Georges wrote: > >> In my opinion (and in the opinion of some linguists who teached me), >> grammar rules come from the way people speak, and are recorded by >> linguists. Languages stand on usage... > >And the "way people speak" is affected by social, political and cultural >influences. As these influences change and assert themselves, so does >usage, and, eventually grammar rules. > >In the case of "the Ukraine" there have been arguments posed here >that the grammar rule requires "the" to be stricken since Ukraine is now >independent. I have seen little if any refutation of these rules - >participants only throw out (supposed) counterexamples. So, the issue is >really whether usage, which violates a grammar rule, will fall in line or >whether the usage will force an exception to the rule. > >-- Stepan > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at WANADOO.FR Fri Aug 18 22:24:07 2000 From: gadassov at WANADOO.FR (Adassovsky Georges) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 23:24:07 +0100 Subject: Definite articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >On Fri, 18 Aug 2000, Stepan wrote: > >> In my opinion (and in the opinion of some linguists who teached me), >> grammar rules come from the way people speak, and are recorded by >> linguists. Languages stand on usage... > >And the "way people speak" is affected by social, political and cultural >influences. As these influences change and assert themselves, so does >usage, and, eventually grammar rules. Certainly. So, let's wait until the English speaking people change its usage concerning this definite article, and after that, grammar rules will evoluate. >In the case of "the Ukraine" there have been arguments posed here >that the grammar rule requires "the" to be stricken since Ukraine is now >independent. I have seen little if any refutation of these rules - I've never heard of the definite article tied with the independance of countries. Georges. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Aug 18 22:54:22 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 17:54:22 -0500 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: I heard > blackman was normal a hundred years ago, but was replaced by negro, > and again to the first (I haven't heard African in England since they > usually come from the Carribean). Everytime the word was changed, the pretext > was with neutral, non-emotional, -- rather euphemistic -- term. Yes. "Blacks" was labeled as insulting and discriminating, later "Negro" (which actually means "black" in Spanish). Then the words "colored" and "people of color" were called politically incorrect and humiliating. "African American" is the term that so far is not criticized by ethnic minority leaders although it is somewhat inaccurate: if you call "African American" Americans of North African (Arab) descent or people from South African Republic they will probably protest. "Ukraine" without "the" may be linguistically incorrect and may contradict the norms of the English language recorded in all the major dictionaries. But if Ukrainians (people living in the country formerly known as "The Ukraine") feel that the definite article has some colonial connotation, I think they have a point here. "The" should be removed to make them happy. Pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dwkaiser at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Sat Aug 19 02:46:23 2000 From: dwkaiser at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (David Kaiser) Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2000 21:46:23 -0500 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It seems that in English, at least my variety of American English, the definite article is associated with some sort of title or designation. THE United States (BTW, the abbreviation is treated as a grammatical singular: the U.S. *IS* my home, not the U.S. *ARE* my home) as opposed to America, the People's Republic of China as opposed to China, the Czech Republic, The United Kingdom as opposed to England (not synonymous, I know, please don't start), the Soviet Union or the Russian Federation as opposed to Russia. Perhaps The Philippines is short for The Philippine Islands. I know I have heard the Faulklands, the Marshalls, the Bahamas, etc. Some are independent, some are not. Any comment here? The Congo is the only non-multiple-island country I can think of off the top of my head that has an article without a title, and I know I've heard Congo as well. If the issue of political sovereignty versus domination is at the heart of the issue, one would expect there to be a linguistic feud over Palestine vs THE Palestine, since the status of sovereignty of that place is being debated. To my knowledge, there is no such feud, the place is referred to as Palestine regardless of one's beliefs about the status of Palestinian nationhood or lack thereof. I suspect this Ukrainian issue is not so much about English linguistics as it is about Slavic prepositions na vs v, where such distinctions and their sociopolitical meanings are preserved. DKaiser ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Sat Aug 19 02:53:08 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:53:08 +0900 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: <003501c00953$f1615fc0$0ce4d23f@ckscp> (message from Dave Brokaw on Fri, 18 Aug 2000 16:35:33 -0400) Message-ID: >Can someone tell me why in English the two "c's" in Cincinnati are >pronounced as "s's," but in Russian and Ukrainian, as far as I have seen, >the two "c's" are translated as "ts's"? > >Was the name of the Roman general after whom Cincinnati is named pronounced >Tsintsinnatus in Latin? > Is it that complicated? I just imagined German was the first foreign language for everyone in Russia and people little cared how English words were actually pronounced. I remember of Lenin having had difficulties in listening to English when he first landed on England as he had apparently thought English was similarly spoken as German. Whenever I explain English spelling, I pronounce alphabets in German, which is usually better understood. (The "J" is dzhee in fact, but Jot is understood). "C" is invariably "tseh". Cheers, Tsuji ytsuji at online.ru ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tanessi at IFA.AMU.EDU.PL Sat Aug 19 10:35:58 2000 From: tanessi at IFA.AMU.EDU.PL (Thomas Anessi) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 12:35:58 +0200 Subject: more Definite articles Message-ID: I would like to add a few comments, primarily from the political side of the question of country names. One of the last comments in this series was that there seems to be no link between the definite article and independence. Though there surely is no strong connection (not counting the Congo and perhaps others),international diplomacy has at least since WWII recongized the right of governments of newly-independent states to establish official equivalents for the name of their countries in foreign languages. In post-colonial Africa, for example, "Africanizing" names has been the rule. Those who stick with old names in these cases would clearly be making a political statement. More recently,the Czech Republic established the name of "Ceska Republika " in English itself. In Polish "Czechia" functions in most contexts, though I don't know the Czech stance on this. In addition, the "rules" on place names in English are so complex and full of exceptions that they really do not provide good concrete rules for what a given structure means. What has been said to date on this thread, however, certainly illuminates the rich web of connotations that some forms possess, including the use of "the" in the name of a country, region, island, etc. The "tendencies" do, however, do tend to place "the Ukraine" as a very rare exception (article + one word name = country) as a country, where as a region it existed as a more common exception. Considering the aspects of courtesy and self-determination, which would appear to me to be quite important, especially among individuals involved in academic, cultural and linguistic studies of the culture involved, dropping the "the" appears the best option. Ukranians can be considered to be asserting (somewhat belatedly) their right to linguistically differentiate Ukraine as an independent state from the Ukraine, which was a republic, in its English equivalent. Moreover, they are also moving the country's name from being an exception to following the general rule of a one word proper name for a country that exists in English and other countries. Could this be an attempt at "normalizing" Ukraine in the eyes of speaker of English, as well? It certainly emphasizes that something has changed in the countries status. Pardon this long addition, but I believe this conversation is an important one. I have sensed some ruffled feathers in some recent (and not only) replies, which is understandable, but I would hope that it is possible to discuss even such sensitive issues without becoming offended, defensive, offensive or dismissive. At least I hop we can try. :) Thomas Anessi filologia angielska Uniwersytet im. Adama Mickiewicza Poznan, Poland ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From billings at CC.KMUTT.AC.TH Sat Aug 19 12:52:20 2000 From: billings at CC.KMUTT.AC.TH (Loren Billings) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:52:20 +0700 Subject: Stambolov Message-ID: Dear SEELangs colleagues, Instead of re-arguing the the-Ukraine problem (didn't we do this all several years ago?), here's a real query from a Bulgarian list. Please reply directly to the original poster, whose e-mail address is listed below. --LAB > zdavejte vsichki > sum Josette od Curychu i govorim malko bulgarski. sega, rabotam na stefan > stambolov ... and in order to post this message yet today, I would be very > grateful for suggestion on literature on Stambolov in Bulgarian (my reading > skills are better than my writing !!) > > thanks and pozdravy > Josette ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From billings at CC.KMUTT.AC.TH Sat Aug 19 12:57:01 2000 From: billings at CC.KMUTT.AC.TH (Loren Billings) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 19:57:01 +0700 Subject: [Fwd: 11.1774, Qs: Nabokov Word Play, Performativity/Slavic Langs] Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Here's another posting, from a different list, that pertains to Slavic languages. Again, please respond to the original posters, or , not to me. --LAB The LINGUIST Network wrote: > > LINGUIST List: Vol-11-1774. Thu Aug 17 2000. ISSN: 1068-4875. > > Subject: 11.1774, Qs: Nabokov Word Play, Performativity/Slavic Langs > > Moderators: Anthony Rodrigues Aristar, Wayne State U. > Helen Dry, Eastern Michigan U. > Andrew Carnie, U. of Arizona > > Reviews: Andrew Carnie: U. of Arizona > > Associate Editors: Ljuba Veselinova, Stockholm U. > Scott Fults, E. Michigan U. > Jody Huellmantel, Wayne State U. > Karen Milligan, Wayne State U. > > Assistant Editors: Lydia Grebenyova, E. Michigan U. > Naomi Ogasawara, E. Michigan U. > James Yuells, Wayne State U. > > Software development: John Remmers, E. Michigan U. > Sudheendra Adiga, Wayne State U. > Qian Liao, E. Michigan U. > > Home Page: http://linguistlist.org/ > > The LINGUIST List is funded jointly by Eastern Michigan University, > Wayne State University, and donations from subscribers and publishers. > > Editor for this issue: Karen Milligan > =========================================================================== > > We'd like to remind readers that the responses to queries are usually > best posted to the individual asking the question. That individual is > then strongly encouraged to post a summary to the list. This policy was > instituted to help control the huge volume of mail on LINGUIST; so we > would appreciate your cooperating with it whenever it seems appropriate. > > =================================Directory================================= > > 1) > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:47:17 +0100 > From: "Johnny Thomsen" > Subject: Nabokov word play > > 2) > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:18:03 +0200 > From: "Igor ®. ®agar" > Subject: Performativity in Slavic Languages > > -------------------------------- Message 1 ------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 17:47:17 +0100 > From: "Johnny Thomsen" > Subject: Nabokov word play > > In Vladimir Nabokov's short story "Oblako, ozero, bashnya", F. > Tyutchev's famous line "Mysl' izrechennaya est' lozh'" ('"A spoken > thought is a lie") is quoted as "My sliz. Rechennaya est' lozh'" ("We > are slime." The latter part of the line does not seem to make any > sense), i.e. exactly the same sequence, but divided so it gives quite > different words with a very different meaning. > What is the technical term for this kind of word play? > > J. Thomsen > jthom at post.olivant.fo > > -------------------------------- Message 2 ------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2000 11:18:03 +0200 > From: "Igor ®. ®agar" > Subject: Performativity in Slavic Languages > > PERFORMATIVITY IN SLAVIC LANGUAGES > > Dear Colleagues, > > I'm writing a paper on the relation between time, tense and > aspect, and I was wondering about the following (problem). > > In Slovenian, almost all verbs have two forms, the > perfective one (PF) and the imperfective one (IF), within > every tense. Hence one can, for example, promise in two > ways, either by saying: > > "Obljubljam ..." > (I promise (IF) ... /I am promising ...) > or > "Obljubim ..." > (I promise (PF) ...). > > Curiously, in institutional settings (swearing in in the > parliament, swearing in of the judges ...) only the > imperfective form is used as performative (i.e. understood > as performative), while in everyday life both forms may be > used (so it seems). > Neverthless, some verbs (mostly verbs that at least IMPLY > institutional or hierarchical settings) can only be used as > performatives in their imperfective form. Thus one can say: > > "Ukazujem vam, da zaprete vrata!" > (I order (IF)/I am ordering you to close the door) > while > "Ukazem vam, da zaprete vrata" > (I order (PF) you to close the door) > > would be understood by a native speaker not only as > non-performative, but even as non-gramatical. > > I was wondering whether this phenomenon occurs in other > Slavic languages as well. I'm particulary interested in > Check, Slovak, Polish, Russian, Bulgarian and Macedonian. > I'm also interested in performativity as related to aspect > in two non-Slavic languages that are (heavily) surrounded > by Slavic languages, namely Hungarian and Romanian. I'll > appreciate any answer (and, of course, I'll post a summary > if there is enough interest). > > Yours, > > Igor Z. Zagar > > Igor Z. Zagar > Associate Professor > Educational Research Institute > Gerbiceva 62 > SI-1000 Ljubljana > Slovenia > Phone: (+386 1) 4201- 265 > Fax: (+386 61) 4201- 266 > E-mail: igor.zagar at guest.arnes.si > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > LINGUIST List: Vol-11-1774 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at SPRINT.CA Sat Aug 19 15:51:41 2000 From: colkitto at SPRINT.CA (Robert Orr) Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2000 11:51:41 -0400 Subject: textbook recommendation/articles Message-ID: (I should have sent ths a couple of days ago, but some of the points haven't been raised ... The closest analogue to "(the) Ukraine" in English would be "The (Northern/Welsh) March(es)", in the sense of "borderland". If history had been slightly different, perhaps one , or both, of "The March(es)" might have become an independent country. And how long would (either of) "The March(es) have kept the article if they had become independent in the Middle Ages? Or perhaps they might still have it. I suggest that at the moment we're too close to the issue (linguists watching a change n progress and even being in the thick of it). Perhaps the current controversy is related to the fact that (the) Ukraine is looming larger n English-speakng discourse than it (ever?) has. This is a topic for an article about 80-100 years down the road. Robert Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Sun Aug 20 16:37:09 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 01:37:09 +0900 Subject: V.I. Startsev died Message-ID: Dear colleagues, My great friend and mentor and the best Soviet historian of the Russian Revolution, Vitalii Ivanovich Startsev died on 8 August 2000 at his home in Petersburg. He had been suffering with cancer. Any enquiries are welcome. I will be staying here in Petersburg till 8 Septermber. I shall be pleased to pass your condolences to the bereaved family. Tsuji ytsuji at mn.waseda.ac.jp ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Mon Aug 21 00:55:29 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 01:55:29 +0100 Subject: Definite articles Message-ID: Dear Dean, Your point about civil behaviour and calling people by the name they prefer is well made and taken. I would not dream of insulting my Ukrainian friends and acquaintances and do not believe I have. But I should like to take your point further, and in passing deal with one or two issues raised by other contributors. I think your analogy is not apt. If your friend Robert had told you he would no longer respond to that name because he had been told it was insulting and implied he was a robot, would you not try to persuade him that his etymology was deficient, and that his decision would not only distort his family history and cause his friends considerable irritation, but also create complications with the revenue department, telephone books etc.? And the civility argument must surely work both ways: it is not unreasonable for me and others to dislike being told how to speak English by those who are not native English speakers. I accept that English and American ears probably hear differently in this matter - the ethnic balance of our respective communities is different - but to my ear a sentence such as 'We are off to Ukraine' can only be spoken credibly with a broad Yorkshire or Lancashire accent. I also feel that I have a right to object when the reason for the ban on 'the' given by several correspondents is not only totally and demonstrably wrong but suggests that I am a racist (callous was one word used), colonial oppressor, great power hegemonist etc., which I most vigorously deny. And may one ask what politically-correct words Ukrainians now use for Germans and Romanians (the word which the English-speaking world is now obliged to use but still, interestingly enough, seems to pronounce as Rumanian)? Your analogy is not apt in another way; this is not about the names of individuals or even a whole people but about an official place name and involves all sorts of issues which concern me as a lexicographer, historian, librarian, and editor. Place names involve all sorts of sometimes conflicting conventions - an area of where language and linguistics collides with bureaucracy and politics, reference works, global communications etc. English-language atlas and map publishers nowadays tend to use local names on maps with the conventional English name following if there is one; on the other hand editorial convention in publishing usually insists on the use of English conventional names where they exist (in the area of city names the logic of this is Kiev, but Lviv; Munich but Munchen Gladbach, Florence but Urbino); these are both rational conventions even if they go in opposite directions. Current diplomatic convention allows states to declare their preferred form of name, and this is normally followed for official purposes but very patchily by the press and publishers. Last Friday the London Evening Standard had a short report which had 'Ukraine' in the headline (another area of special convention) but 'the Ukraine' in the text of the report. To upset these conventions, which historically develop slightly differently from spoken language and for more easily determinable reasons, is a matter of some consequence. Language follows its own rules; conventions are made by us for the common good (one hopes). The case for dropping 'the' in the English designation of the Ukraine would be persuasive if there was indeed some pejorative connotation in this usage (as, for example, with the peoples formerly called Samoed by the Russians). But there is no such connotation, indeed the definite article in other contexts often carries some cachet. I cannot find a single English name of a country which includes the definite article in which the article bears the slightest pejorative colouring or implies subordination to another country, or even past subordination. The common usage in English is in fact quite varied and has changed over time, as one would expect, but it is true that the tendency is for the article to disappear from the relatively few single-word names which previously had it. In newer state names the article tends to go with composite names (THE United States, THE Republic of ...), but there are many exceptions such as those involving compass points or directions (North Korea, New Zealand, Outer Mongolia, Upper Volta). The United Kingdom has an article but Great Britain is article-less, and for some places one has a choice: I see both Gambia and The Gambia in holiday brochures. Other categories which may attract the article are names which are grammatically plurals (typically archipelegos such as the Philippines, but note Indonesia) or derived from plurals (the Netherlands, not a federal state but a kingdom since 1813). A further category is names of regions or territories which have become state names; these seem to favour coastal and riparian regions (the Argentine (now almost obsolete), the Congo, the Gold Coast, the Transvaal (a state for a while), but note Upper Volta). But not all regional names attract the article (THE Levant but Siberia) even when they appear to be similar coinages: THE Transvaal, but Transylvania. This is the category into which the Ukraine falls - 'ukraina' in Ukrainian and Russian meant a border area, not necessarily a specific one (in the 17th century Kotoshikhin used it for the Tatar border area) - but the derivation of a state name from a regional name can hardly be thought of as demeaning: Great Britain, Germany (as we call Deutschland), Italy, the Netherlands, Finland, Russia, to name just a few of many, were all regional names or names of ethno-linguistic areas before they became states. Why did the Ukraine attract the definite article in English, just in case there really is something pejorative in the English usage? A quick search shows that the word Ukrainian is not recorded before the nineteenth century in England. My suspicion is that English knowledge of the Ukraine in the eighteenth century would have been very limited, vague, and largely confined to educated circles who would have derived their knowledge primarily from German-language sources, since Germans were prominent in scientific description of the Russian empire. I think English 'the Ukraine' is most probably a calque of German 'die Ukraine' (any better ideas gratefully received). Exactly what territory was denoted by this term would of course have depended on the date. I have an English map of the Russian Empire and Poland published in the 1720's which shows a very small area labelled as 'Ukrain' (a precedent perhaps for dropping the definite article). But in this case the map had been revised by Captain John Perry who had first hand knowledge of travel and the geography of the Russian empire and would have taken the name directly from Russian. This brings me to my last point. When publishers and editors in North America censor 'the' from the Ukraine, is this rule retroactive? Can we use 'the Ukraine' for periods when the various territories now included in present-day Ukraina WERE a region in a larger political entity, in fact two or three larger political entities? Do we now say Left-bank Ukraine or THE Left-bank Ukraine? Do we not run the danger of anachronism? Sorry I have let this reply develop into an essay. My wife says I am becoming boring on this topic, so I shall try to make no more contributions. Will Dean Worth wrote: > > Dear Colleagues, > Re the "the" the discussion about (the) Ukraine seems to me to be on the > wrong level: it has nothing to do with grammatical rules, and everything to > do with simple good manners. I have a friend named Robert Winter, and he > prefers to be called Robert, not Bob, so I call him Robert, which costs me > but a single extra syllable once a month or so. If our Ukrainian friends > and colleagues prefer to refer to their country as Ukraine, without the > article, why can't we do it their way, just to be obliging? After all, it's > not as if they were asking for Saskatchewan. Dean Worth > ################################################################## W. F. Ryan, MA, DPhil, FBA, FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862 8940 (direct) tel: 020 7862 8949 (switchboard) fax: 020 7862 8939 Institute Webpage fttp://www.sas.ac.uk/warburg/ ################################################################## ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at WANADOO.FR Mon Aug 21 22:33:06 2000 From: gadassov at WANADOO.FR (Adassovsky Georges) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 23:33:06 +0100 Subject: Definite articles In-Reply-To: <39A07E01.32B6836A@sas.ac.uk> Message-ID: Will ryan wrote: >Sorry I have let this reply develop into an essay. My wife says I am >becoming boring on this topic, so I shall try to make no more >contributions. > >Will You are not boring but very interesting. This is the kind of contribution i wish to read more often on this list. Georges. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john.mackay at YALE.EDU Mon Aug 21 23:08:28 2000 From: john.mackay at YALE.EDU (John Mackay) Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 19:08:28 -0400 Subject: Definite articles In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 21 Aug 2000, Adassovsky Georges wrote: > Will ryan wrote: > > >Sorry I have let this reply develop into an essay. My wife says I am > >becoming boring on this topic, so I shall try to make no more > >contributions. > > > >Will > > You are not boring but very interesting. > This is the kind of contribution i wish to read more often on this list. > > Georges. Ditto! J. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Tue Aug 22 10:20:31 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:20:31 +0100 Subject: Definite articles Message-ID: Georges, Thank you. Very kind. But I only do it when suffering from insomnia and indigestion. Will Adassovsky Georges wrote: > Will ryan wrote: > > >Sorry I have let this reply develop into an essay. My wife says I am > >becoming boring on this topic, so I shall try to make no more > >contributions. > > > >Will > > You are not boring but very interesting. > This is the kind of contribution i wish to read more often on this list. > > Georges. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Tue Aug 22 10:29:13 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 11:29:13 +0100 Subject: Alexis Vlasto Message-ID: RIP Alexis Vlasto. A substantial obituary in today's Independent (London). A rare event for a slavist to reach the obit page of the British national press, but one which will please his old friends and colleagues. Will Ryan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Tue Aug 22 14:02:10 2000 From: jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Jolanta M. Davis) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:02:10 -0400 Subject: What about Kazakhstan vs Kazakstan? In-Reply-To: <97A32872DFFED211A62E0008C79168A402561B87@kenmsg03b.us.schp .com> Message-ID: Further on the topic of changes in spelling the names of countries -- can anyone explain why the Kazaks seem to prefer that the name of their country be spelled "Kazakstan" instead of "Kazakhstan"? (I was working previously for an international aid organization and the organization's regional staff placed in Kazakstan was asked to tell the publications office to remove "h" from the country's name in all reports discussing the projects in that country). But I still don't know why. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From shgoldbe at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU Tue Aug 22 06:36:54 2000 From: shgoldbe at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU (Stuart Goldberg) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:36:54 +0400 Subject: What about Kazakhstan vs Kazakstan? Message-ID: Kazakhstan is transliteration of the Russian. In Kazak (or Kazakh or Qazaq), both consonants are the same (neither a Russian "k" nor "kh" -- I'm sorry to say I don't know the linguistic terminology). So Kazakstan is transliteration of the Kazak. Stuart "Jolanta M. Davis" wrote: > Further on the topic of changes in spelling the names of countries -- can > anyone explain why the Kazaks seem to prefer that the name of their country > be spelled "Kazakstan" instead of "Kazakhstan"? (I was working previously > for an international aid organization and the organization's regional staff > placed in Kazakstan was asked to tell the publications office to remove "h" > from the country's name in all reports discussing the projects in that > country). But I still don't know why. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elspeth at FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU Tue Aug 22 15:56:30 2000 From: elspeth at FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU (Elizabeth B. Naime) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 10:56:30 -0500 Subject: What about Kazakhstan vs Kazakstan? In-Reply-To: <39A21F85.50B2145F@students.wisc.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Stuart Goldberg wrote: > Kazakhstan is transliteration of the Russian. In Kazak (or Kazakh or Qazaq), > both consonants are the same (neither a Russian "k" nor "kh" -- I'm sorry to > say I don't know the linguistic terminology). So Kazakstan is transliteration > of the Kazak. Interesting. Would that consonant be uvular -- like a k, but a bit further back? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Tue Aug 22 16:47:17 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 17:47:17 +0100 Subject: What about Kazakhstan vs Kazakstan? Message-ID: One good reason for keeping the Russian spellings distinct is to to distinguish the word kazakh from kazak 'Cossack'. But this would not apply in English. Will Ryan "Jolanta M. Davis" wrote: > Further on the topic of changes in spelling the names of countries -- can > anyone explain why the Kazaks seem to prefer that the name of their country > be spelled "Kazakstan" instead of "Kazakhstan"? (I was working previously > for an international aid organization and the organization's regional staff > placed in Kazakstan was asked to tell the publications office to remove "h" > from the country's name in all reports discussing the projects in that > country). But I still don't know why. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pyz at PANIX.COM Tue Aug 22 17:08:35 2000 From: pyz at PANIX.COM (pyz at PANIX.COM) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 13:08:35 -0400 Subject: What about Kazakhstan vs Kazakstan? In-Reply-To: <39A2AE95.CA12C718@sas.ac.uk> from "William Ryan" at Aug 22, 2000 05:47:17 PM Message-ID: > One good reason for keeping the Russian spellings distinct is to to distinguish > the word kazakh from kazak 'Cossack'. But this would not apply in English. Just curious, Will, which one would you choose to use - Kazakstan or Kazakhstan? > Will Ryan Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ > "Jolanta M. Davis" wrote: > > > Further on the topic of changes in spelling the names of countries -- can > > anyone explain why the Kazaks seem to prefer that the name of their country > > be spelled "Kazakstan" instead of "Kazakhstan"? (I was working previously > > for an international aid organization and the organization's regional staff > > placed in Kazakstan was asked to tell the publications office to remove "h" > > from the country's name in all reports discussing the projects in that > > country). But I still don't know why. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA > Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) > Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB > tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. > fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. > The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Tue Aug 22 21:08:46 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 22:08:46 +0100 Subject: What about Kazakhstan vs Kazakstan? Message-ID: A fair question. I suppose I must respond in view of the previous correspondence. It is not an area in which I have any expertise but I think several general points can be made. 1. There is the fact that there has never been an 'English' version of this name, nor, as far as I can see, has any mistaken notion of national pride been invoked in making the change. 2. The -stan bit simply indicates a region, not necessarily a sovereign state, and is found in several state and regional names (Fitroy Maclean in Eastern Approaches found himself in the region and when he told a local that he was from even further west than Moscow, the local said: 'Ah, Frengistan'). 3. The problem is not one of English usage but an international one of transliteration, or more specifically Latinization. I am not suffiently familiar with Turkic linguistics to opine the quality of the 'K', nor do I know if there is a single predominating Latinization system, although I suspect that as with Arabic, there is not. The Asian republics have a complicated history involving at various times Arabic, Latin and Cyrillic scripts. How is the name dealt with in Turkish? An important consideration which will eventually push us all into some kind of conformity is the increasing reliance around the world of libraries and IT on Library of Congress practice in these matters - we may not like it but in globalized communications any convention is better than no convention. Microsoft is not the only American cross which 'lesser breeds without the law' have to bear! 4. The state of Kazak(h)stan, which as far as I know is still using Cyrillic, obviously has a right to express its preference in the matter of transliteration, and I would hope has obtained good linguistic advice and not simply asked for a change just to irritate its Russian and Ukrainian minorities. How does it spell its name in Russian? How do Ukrainians spell it? As I mentioned in another message, the problem for Russians (and presumably for Ukrainians, though I don't have my Ukrainian dictionary to hand), is that they have to differentiate between Kazakhi and Kazaki, although at one time the two were both spelled 'kazaki' and may indeed have the same origin. But my answer to this Solomonic question would have to be a little cynical: if I were working for a Western firm or an international agency in the country I would certainly follow the line requested. If I were making an editorial decision from the safe distance of London, I think I would look for guidance to an accepted agency such as the International Place Name Commission (which may of course have taken the same line). Local politics are so changeable - ars longa vita brevis (where ars = books and vita = politics) 5. In the days of the Soviet Union the placename convention for international purposes was to transliterate Soviet place names from the official Russian transliteration of non-Latin script because Russian was the official state language (which caused much offence in some 'republics' but was at least an easy convention for foreigners to observe). With the ending of the USSR this convention presumably ceases, although I haven't kept up with current International Placename Commission decisions. pyz at PANIX.COM wrote: > > > One good reason for keeping the Russian spellings distinct is to to distinguish > > the word kazakh from kazak 'Cossack'. But this would not apply in English. > > Just curious, Will, which one would you choose to use - Kazakstan or Kazakhstan? > > > Will Ryan > > Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine > pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ > > > "Jolanta M. Davis" wrote: > > > > > Further on the topic of changes in spelling the names of countries -- can > > > anyone explain why the Kazaks seem to prefer that the name of their country > > > be spelled "Kazakstan" instead of "Kazakhstan"? (I was working previously > > > for an international aid organization and the organization's regional staff > > > placed in Kazakstan was asked to tell the publications office to remove "h" > > > from the country's name in all reports discussing the projects in that > > > country). But I still don't know why. > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA > > Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) > > Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB > > tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. > > fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. > > The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949 > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ################################################################## W. F. Ryan, MA, DPhil, FBA, FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862 8940 (direct) tel: 020 7862 8949 (switchboard) fax: 020 7862 8939 Institute Webpage fttp://www.sas.ac.uk/warburg/ ################################################################## ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at WANADOO.FR Tue Aug 22 23:37:54 2000 From: gadassov at WANADOO.FR (Adassovsky Georges) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 00:37:54 +0100 Subject: What about Kazakhstan vs Kazakstan? In-Reply-To: <39A2EBDE.DA058BF9@sas.ac.uk> Message-ID: Will Ryan wrote: >A fair question. I suppose I must respond in view of the previous >correspondence. Poor Will! Insomnia, indigestion, or both? Georges ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Wed Aug 23 08:42:08 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:42:08 +0100 Subject: Kazak(h)stan Message-ID: PS to my last message - I pressed the button before I meant to while finding the answer to several of my own queries. Kazakstan with a k is indeed the current Cyrillic spelling on Kazak passports (as shown on one apparently official Internet site www.welcome-to.kazakstan), and also widely used on the Internet. The alternative form Qazaqstan given on this website indicates that the k is not the same as an English or Russian K and is presumably the reason for the kh. On the other hand even more websites, including other apparently official ones in Kazakhstan, include the h. I therefore deduce that the matter is not one of great consequence at the moment and will stick by my earlier decision until persuaded otherwise. The case is quite different from that of [the] Ukraine. Will -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Wed Aug 23 08:46:15 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 09:46:15 +0100 Subject: What about Kazakhstan vs Kazakstan? Message-ID: Georges, A bit of both. Too much borshch perhaps. Thanks for your sympathy! Will Adassovsky Georges wrote: > Will Ryan wrote: > > >A fair question. I suppose I must respond in view of the previous > >correspondence. > > Poor Will! Insomnia, indigestion, or both? > > Georges > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Wed Aug 23 09:17:11 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:17:11 +0100 Subject: Kazakstan Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, Sorry, Will, much as I enjoy your erudite contributions to the list, but you are mistaken. About three years ago I queried a posting on a similar list which included the spelling Kazakstan, and received several polite emails from American Orientalists to the effect that the form Kazakhstan had been imposed by the Soviets (probably in order to avoid conflict with the terms for Cossack in Russian) and that definitely the form which the West should now be using is Kazakstan, at the express wish of the Kazak government. I wrote to the Head of Communications at the DTI mentioning this, thinking that this would be important information for business relations with Kazakstan (although I didn't receive a reply). The question is a serious one for businesspeople, who certainly don't want to be offending possible business partners by spelling the name of the republic wrongly. If this happened at the start it could blight negotiations. I don't suppose that German businesspeople would fall into this trap. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: William Ryan To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Kazak(h)stan Date: 23 August 2000 09:42 PS to my last message - I pressed the button before I meant to while finding the answer to several of my own queries. Kazakstan with a k is indeed the current Cyrillic spelling on Kazak passports (as shown on one apparently official Internet site www.welcome-to.kazakstan), and also widely used on the Internet. The alternative form Qazaqstan given on this website indicates that the k is not the same as an English or Russian K and is presumably the reason for the kh. On the other hand even more websites, including other apparently official ones in Kazakhstan, include the h. I therefore deduce that the matter is not one of great consequence at the moment and will stick by my earlier decision until persuaded otherwise. The case is quite different from that of [the] Ukraine. Will -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Wed Aug 23 17:04:07 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 10:04:07 -0700 Subject: Kazak(h)stan In-Reply-To: <39A38E60.D716B624@sas.ac.uk> Message-ID: I would presume, then, that this is the same sound as Qatar. Interesting discussion - I've always wondered that and never bothered to find out. I guess now I have to train myself not to pronounce it with a "kh". :) Kat > Kazakstan with a k is indeed the current Cyrillic spelling on Kazak > passports (as shown on one apparently official Internet site > www.welcome-to.kazakstan), and also widely used on the Internet. The > alternative form Qazaqstan given on this website indicates that the k is > > not the same as an English or Russian K and is presumably the reason for > > the kh. On the other hand even more websites, including other apparently > > official ones in Kazakhstan, include the h. I therefore deduce that the > matter is not one of great consequence at the moment and will stick by > my earlier decision until persuaded otherwise. The case is quite > different from that of [the] Ukraine. > Will > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU Wed Aug 23 17:43:59 2000 From: sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU (Sibelan Forrester) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:43:59 -0400 Subject: SEEJ book list update Message-ID: Dear friends and colleagues, As you shake the dust from your briefcases and put the finishing touches on those fall syllabi, take a minute to check the newly revised list of books available for review in the Slavic and East European Journal at http://www.swarthmore.edu/Humanities/sforres1/seej/ -- since nothing keeps the brain percolating like some well-chosen fall reading. Respectfully, Sibelan Forrester SEEJ Book Review Editor Swarthmore College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Wed Aug 23 20:14:46 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (Stephen J. Bobick) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 13:14:46 -0700 Subject: What about Kazakhstan vs Kazakstan? Message-ID: William Ryan wrote: > 4. The state of Kazak(h)stan, which as far as I know is still using > Cyrillic, obviously has a right to express its preference in the matter > of transliteration, and I would hope has obtained good linguistic advice > and not simply asked for a change just to irritate its Russian and > Ukrainian minorities. How does it spell its name in Russian? How do > Ukrainians spell it? As I mentioned in another message, the problem for > Russians (and presumably for Ukrainians, though I don't have my > Ukrainian dictionary to hand), Nope, no problem for Ukrainians. The word for "Cossack" is "kozak". > is that they have to differentiate > between Kazakhi and Kazaki, although at one time the two were both > spelled 'kazaki' and may indeed have the same origin. In Ukrainian, one can find Kazakstan and Kazakhstan, depending (apparently) on which pravopys is being used. According to the pravopys of 1929, the spelling is Kazakstan ("Ukrains'ko-Anhlijs'kyj Slovnyk", Andrusyshen, 1955, and "Pravopysnyj Slovnyk", Holoskevych, 1977). Podvez'ko's "Anhlo-Ukrayins'kyj Slovnyk (orig. published in Kyiv in 1974) uses the newer pravopys, and Kazakhstan. No surprise here, since the newer pravopys was designed to russify the Ukrainian language. -- Stepan Bobyk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Wed Aug 23 20:12:44 2000 From: jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Jolanta M. Davis) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 16:12:44 -0400 Subject: AAASS Membership Directory 2000-2002 In-Reply-To: <39A430B6.C154FD83@accessone.com> Message-ID: Just wanted to let everyone know that the AAASS Membership Directory 2000-2002, which lists the Association's approximately 3,000 members, will be available within the next couple of weeks. If you would like to order a copy ($12.00 for members, $17.00 for nonmembers), please contact AAASS, e-mail: aaass at hcs.harvard.edu, telephone: 617-495-0677, fax: 617-495-0680. Jolanta M. Davis Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS) 8 Story Street Cambridge, MA 02138, USA tel.: (617) 495-0679 fax: (617) 495-0680 http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From clogan at ITOL.COM Thu Aug 24 03:46:11 2000 From: clogan at ITOL.COM (Carol Z. Logan) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:46:11 -0500 Subject: Fwd: E-mail Billing/Say No! Notify your congressman today. Message-ID: Slightly out of the SEELangs list members' main areas of concern, but FYI, just in case: > >VOTE NO ON Bill 602P!!!! > >I guess the warnings were true. Federal Bill 602P, 5-cents per E-mail sent. It figures! No more free E-mail! We knew this was coming!! > >Bill 602P will permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent charge on every delivered E-mail. > > Please read the following carefully if you intend to stay online, and continue using E-mail. > > The last few months have revealed an alarming trend in the Government of the United States attempting to quietly push through legislation that will affect our use of the Internet. > Under proposed legislation, the US Postal Service will be attempting to bill E-mail users out of "alternative postage fees." > > Bill 602P will permit the Federal Government to charge a 5-cent surcharge on every E-mail delivered, by billing Internet Service Providers at source. > >The consumer would then be billed in turn by the ISP. > >Washington DC lawyer Richard Stepp is working without pay to prevent this legislation from becoming law. The US Postal Service is claiming lost revenue, due to the proliferation of E-mail, is costing nearly $230,000,000 in revenue per year. You may have noticed their recent ad campaign: >"There is nothing like a letter." Did anyone think of reducing the size of the Post Office? > > Since the average person received about 10 pieces of E-mail per day in 1998, the cost of the typical individual would be an additional 50 cents a day or over $180 per year - above and beyond their regular Internet costs. > > > Note that this would be money paid directly to the US Postal Service for a service they do not even provide. The whole point of the Internet is democracy and noninterference. You are already paying an exorbitant price for snail mail because of bureaucratic efficiency. > > It currently takes up to 6 days for a letter to be delivered from coast to coast. If the US Postal Service is allowed to tinker with E-mail, it will mark the end of the "free" Internet in the United States. > >Our [Ill.] congressional representative, Tony Schnell (R) has even suggested a "$20-$40 per month surcharge on all Internet service" above and beyond the governments proposed E-mail charges. Note that most of the major newspapers have ignored the story, the only exception being the Washingtonian, which&nb! sp! ; called the idea of E-mail surcharge "a useful concept who's time has come" (March 6th, 1999 Editorial). > Do not sit by and watch your freedom erode away! Send this E-mail to EVERYONE on your list, and tell all your friends and relatives to write their congressional representative and say "NO" to Bill 602P. >It will take only a few moments of your time and could very well be instrumental in killing a bill we do not want. > > Please forward! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU Thu Aug 24 03:41:52 2000 From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU) Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 23:41:52 -0400 Subject: Fwd: E-mail Billing/Say No! Notify your congressman today. In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20000823224611.006a0ce4@127.0.0.1> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Aug 2000, Carol Z. Logan wrote: > Slightly out of the SEELangs list members' main areas of concern, but FYI, > just in case: > > > > >VOTE NO ON Bill 602P!!!! > > > >I guess the warnings were true. Federal Bill 602P, 5-cents per E-mail > sent. It figures! No more free E-mail! We knew this was coming!! > > Apologies to Ms. Logan, whose instincts are all in the right place, but this hoax has been circulating since 1999, if not longer. Further details can be found on websites which track urban legends (type "urban legend" into your favorite search engine and you will find a number of such sites). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jschill at AMERICAN.EDU Thu Aug 24 04:32:50 2000 From: jschill at AMERICAN.EDU (John Schillinger) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 00:32:50 -0400 Subject: Fwd: E-mail Billing/Say No! Notify your congressman today. Message-ID: Washington DC's news station WTOP carried a special report about this bogus bill yesterday-- this false e-mail announcement originated in Canada. Our bills do not work this way, nor do they carry a "P" designation, which stands for Parliament. There is no such plan afoot. Blame Canada...... -- John Schillinger Professor of Russian Dept. of Language and Foreign Studies American University, Washington D.C. 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW 20016 Office Ph. 202/885-2395 Office Fax 202/885-1076 HOME PHONE: 202/328-4047 (summer & weekends 540-465-2828) HOME FAX: 202/328-4049 (summer & weekends 540-465-2965) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From clogan at ITOL.COM Thu Aug 24 05:12:45 2000 From: clogan at ITOL.COM (Carol Z. Logan) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 00:12:45 -0500 Subject: E-mail Billing Message-ID: Sincere apologies to all list-members for wasting your time with this hoax, and thanks to those who clarified the situation. I forwarded their comments to the person who erroneously sent me (and untold others) the bogus message. >Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2000 22:46:11 -0500 >To: "SEELangs: Slavic & E. European Languages & literatures list" >From: "Carol Z. Logan" >Subject: Fwd: E-mail Billing/Say No! Notify your congressman today. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mabildsn at UB.NTNU.NO Thu Aug 24 08:36:32 2000 From: mabildsn at UB.NTNU.NO (Morten Abildsnes) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:36:32 +0200 Subject: What about Kazakhstan vs Kazakstan? Message-ID: At 10:56 2000-08-22 -0500, you wrote: >On Tue, 22 Aug 2000, Stuart Goldberg wrote: > >> Kazakhstan is transliteration of the Russian. In Kazak (or Kazakh or Qazaq), >> both consonants are the same (neither a Russian "k" nor "kh" -- I'm sorry to >> say I don't know the linguistic terminology). So Kazakstan is transliteration >> of the Kazak. > >Interesting. Would that consonant be uvular -- like a k, but a bit >further back? Exactly, it is similar to the k-sound that appears in place names like Qatar, Iraq or Qaqortoq. In the Library of Congress database the transliterated name of the country is Qazaqstan. Does anybody know how "Kazakh" was spelled in the Latin script which was used in the 30s? By the way, have the Turkmens insisted that their country should be spelled with Umlaut, i.e. Türkmenistan? Morten Abildsnes, Trondheim, Norway ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at HOME.COM Thu Aug 24 17:18:50 2000 From: ggerhart at HOME.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 10:18:50 -0700 Subject: FW: Assistant Russian Prof (University of Montana) Message-ID: Want a job? Genevra Gerhart New email address: ggerhart at home.com 206-329-0053 Assistant Professor of Russian University of Montana Posted: 21 August 2000 Full-time tenure-track Assistant Professor of Foreign Languages and Literatures: RUSSIAN, beginning August 28, 2001. Ph.D. in Russian literature in hand. Undergraduate major/minor curriculum--teaching all levels of language, culture and literature--with an emphasis on 20th c. Soviet/Russian Literature. Course load of 5-6 courses per year. Native or near-native Russian and English language proficiency with proven experience and commitment to dynamic language teaching. Must have proven commitment to sustaining and generating enrollment. Experience/interest in directing Study Abroad in Russia. Willing to work with student Russian conversation groups. Evidence of publication and active research agenda required. Knowledge of Russian Computer Assisted Instruction a plus. qualified applicants should send a letter of interest, current curriculum vitae, graduate transcript with proof of Ph.D., 3 current letters of reference (at least 2 of which must address teaching ability), a sample tape in Russian and English (self description, interests) to Maureen Curnow, Chair; Foreign Languages and Literatures; the University of Montana; Campus Drive 32; Missoula, MT 59812-6192. Review of complete dossiers will begin December 1, 2000 and will continue until an applicant is named to the position. EOE/Affirmative Action Employer. -------------------------- eGroups Sponsor -------------------------~-~> It's the End Of The Line for My Shipping Broker. http://click.egroups.com/1/5175/14/_/481851/_/967080192/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------_-> This is the nisjobs list. To subscribe or unsubcribe visit www.onelist.com (sign in with your password or you can register to obtain one. Then proceed to the nisjobs page http://www.onelist.com/community/nisjobs or send an e-mail to nisjobs-unsubscribe (or subscribe)@onelist.com If you have questions you may contact the list owner at nisjobs-owner at onelist.com for assistance. This is the NIS jobs lists. To change your subscription visit www.onelist.com or contact the listowner at nisjobs-owner at onelist.com \ To unsubscribe from AnthEurasia, send the text "unsubscribe AnthEurasia-L" to: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM Fri Aug 25 02:22:54 2000 From: AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM (AATSEEL Exec Dir) Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2000 22:22:54 -0400 Subject: AATSEEL 2000 info & registration Message-ID: American Association of Teachers of Slavic and East European Languages This is your invitation to AATSEEL 2000: 28-30 December, Washington, DC If you have any questions after reading this form, please see the AATSEEL Web site at or contact: Gerard L. (Jerry) Ervin Executive Director, AATSEEL 1933 N. Fountain Park Dr., Tucson, AZ 85715 USA Phone/fax: 520/885-2663 Email: AATSEEL Home Page: * * * * * Dear Colleague, It is my pleasure to welcome you to AATSEEL 2000. Washington has always been a great venue for us, and we look forward to seeing you there. Thanks to David Birnbaum and his hard-working Program Committee, this conference-at which we are pleased, as always, to host ACTR events-promises to be a splendid event. As always, AATSEEL attendance offers you a superb opportunity to meet and network with scholars working in your area as well as with other specialists in Slavic languages, literatures, linguistics, culture and pedagody. In the Exhibit Hall you'll be able to see the newest and best from publishers, intensive language programs, media companies, travel firms and more. Just as importantly, by attending this annual meeting you'll be renewing your commitment to the health and growth of our profession. Remember, without your support and active participation, AATSEEL would cease to exist. Consider the information in this brochure and make the decision to join us in Washington. Frank Miller, Columbia University President, AATSEEL Plan to attend AATSEEL 2000. Here's what's in store: (Subject to change. For updated information please check the AATSEEL Web Site.) December 27 AATSEEL Program Committee (11 a.m.-1 p.m.) AATSEEL Executive Council (2-5 p.m.) Conference Registration (4-8 p.m.) AWSS Interviewing workshop (7-9 p.m.) December 28 Conference Registration (7:30 a.m.-7 p.m.) Conference panels Exhibits (9 a.m.-4:30 p.m.) ACTR Board Meeting December 29 Slava/Olympiada Breakfast (8-10 a.m.) Conference Registration (7:30 a.m.-8 p.m.) Conference panels Exhibits (9 a.m.-4:30 p.m.) AATSEEL Business Meeting & General Session ACTR General Membership Meeting AATSEEL President's Reception/Awards Recognitions December 30 AATSEEL Executive Council (7-10 a.m.) Conference panels Exhibits (9 a.m.-noon) Silent book auction pickup/claim time: 12:30 p.m. AATSEEL Program Committee (12-1 p.m.) * Scores of panels will offer hundreds of papers and presentations on language, literature, linguistics, technology and pedagogy. * Some 500-600 of the most active and professional scholars in Slavic from the USA, Canada, and a number of other countries will attend. * Gratis interviewing facilities will be available. Please contact the Executive Director for details. * The exhibit hall will be packed with dozens of companies offering the newest and best in scholarly books, textbooks, audiovisual aids, study abroad and summer intensive programs, and more. HOTEL: Capital Hilton, 16th and "K" Streets, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20036 (202/393-1000). * FACILITIES: Located just steps away from the White House, the Mall, the Smithsonian and other Washington landmarks, the Capital Hilton provides quick access to centers of government, business, culture and entertainment. Amenities include a complete health club, a business center, Trader Vic's, and the popular lobby bar. * ROOM RATES: $95 single, $105 doubles/twins; additional person $25. These rates will also be honored a few days before and after the conference, should you wish to spend additional time in Washington. * RESERVATIONS: Call 1-800-HILTONS (1-800-445-8667) and cite "AATSEEL-Winter Meeting" as your group. To ensure availability, room reservations should be made by 12 December, 2000. TRAVEL: American Airlines is again offering discounted fares. To check on service and fares from your area, call 1-800-433-1790; cite group number 26D0UH. * FROM THE AIRPORT OR TRAIN STATION: Reagan (formerly Washington National) Airport is only minutes away, with service via airport shuttle (about $10), cab (about $15), and the Washington Metro (subway) system (about $2). Union Station is even closer. If you fly into Dulles International Airports plan on $25 for airport shuttle, $50-$60 for cab. * IF YOU DRIVE: The hotel offers only valet parking at $17/day, $23 overnight. There is only limited day parking in the area. CONFERENCE REGISTRATION: Registration is required of all attendees. Current AATSEEL members qualify for reduced conference registration (see below). Preregistration by 31 October is required of conference presenters; preregistration for others closes 30 November. All conference presenters must be current AATSEEL members. MLA COURTESY RATES: MLA/AATSEEL will again offer each other's registrants courtesy registration rates. AATSEEL registrants attending MLA conference functions may show their AATSEEL registration badge at the MLA conference desk to secure these rates. THE AATSEEL NEWSLETTER will carry the preliminary conference program. You may also check the AATSEEL Web Site for details. AATSEEL 2000 REGISTRATION FORM. THIS FORM MAY BE PHOTOCOPIED. TO PREREGISTER, complete this form and return it with your check (payable to AATSEEL in US dollars) before 30 November (31 October for program participants) to: AATSEEL, c/o G. Ervin, 1933 N. Fountain Park Dr., Tucson, AZ 85715-5538. If you wish a receipt in addition to your canceled check, please enclose a self-addressed stamped envelope. Sorry, we are not able to accept credit card payments. (Please PRINT all information.) 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Send before 30 November (31 October for program participants) to: AATSEEL, c/o G. Ervin 1933 N. Fountain Park Dr. Tucson, AZ 85715-5538. If you wish a receipt in addition to your canceled check, please enclose a self-addressed, stamped envelope. Office use: Check # _________________ Date _____________ Amount $________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From shura at SK.SYMPATICO.CA Fri Aug 25 14:54:54 2000 From: shura at SK.SYMPATICO.CA (Alexandra Popoff) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 08:54:54 -0600 Subject: Teaching Russian as combination of... Message-ID: Dear colleagues: I want to propose a Russian program to various colleges/universities in Canada or the US. This program will be a combination of Russian language, history, literature, music, and film. I believe that a program comprised of these elements would be attractive to students and help them to develop cultural sensitivity. I have experience teaching credit and non-credit classes in Russian language, literature, and civilization at the University of Saskatchewan over a period of six years. I studied Russian film in Moscow at the courses for scriptwriters. Also, I regularly broadcast a Russian radio program in Saskatoon, with Russian music, mini-Russian lessons, and poetry. My education: Moscow BA, Toronto MA (thesis, Irony in Leo Tolstoy), and Saskatchewan MA (thesis, English Female Writers 18-19 Century). Demonstrated interest in research. Currently, I teach at the U of S and work for Saskatchewan Education as a Curriculum writer. If you know that my proposal would be of interest to any college/university, please send me a private letter. Sincerely, Prof. Alexandra Popoff University of Saskatchewan, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Aug 25 18:47:03 2000 From: cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (curt fredric woolhiser) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 13:47:03 -0500 Subject: Russian doublet phrases, etc. Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, A colleague of mine who is researching Turko-Slavo-Yiddish language contacts has asked me to identify a number of Russian doublet phrases, counting rhymes, and "onomatopoeic phrases" he encountered in an article by Jakobson. I've already provided him with meanings for some of them, but there were others that I either had doubts about, or was completely stumped by. Can anyone help out? Many thanks, Curt Woolhiser >Delivered-To: cfwoolhiser at mail.utexas.edu >Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 20:42:12 +0800 >To: cfwoolhiser at mail.utexas.edu >From: Mark Southern >Subject: hola, and qq o russkom jazyke >Status: > > >Any lights go off for you when you see any of the following words? > >They're all from a critical/linguistic piece by Roman Jakobson on >Russian formalists, and therefore all ought to have some sort of >meaningful existence in his native-speaker's Russian; but they're >either not at all or not intelligibly in dictionaries that I've >looked for them in - at least not in the form that he presents them >in. > >DOUBLET PHRASES: >(A) cheremja-beremja (cheremja = ? cheremuxa, cf. dial. cherema; beremja = 'burden, armful') >dikin'-vykin' (vykin' = 'throw out') >jajtse-rajtse (jajtse = jajtso) >koloben'-joloben' (koloben' -- dial. for kolobok (? ), cf. Tver. >koloban 'tolstaja lepeshka'; joloben' -- < ? S. Russian jolop = >'bolvan, ostolop' >pjadun-ladun >ravlik-pavlik >Sashki-Mashki (= ? 'Assorted Sashas and Mashas") >seju-veju (< 'I sow','I winnow' ; folk song refrain?) >sito-vito (< sito + PPP of vit' (?); folk song refrain?) >po solodu - po molodu (solod 'malt'; molod = either short form adj. or poss.dial. molod 'malt' (cf. molod' 'foam on new beer', Ukrainian dial. molot 'malt' ) (folk song refrain?) >shert'-vert' >shil'tse-mil'tse (< dim. of shilo-mylo?) shokhan-rokhan (< ? W. & S. Russ. 'shorkhat' 'shurshat', ? rokhat' 'khriukat', sil'no khrapet'') >(B) akir-bakir >ani-bani (counting rhyme) (variant of eni-beni) >as-bas >dysh-dysh > >So-called 'ONOMATOPOEIAS':- >chikirej-mikirej >kidli-midli >kidra-vidra >kiki-miki >kukhtarka-mukhtarka >kundy-mundy >shadra-badra >shater-bater >shuni-buni (? < bunet' ''gudet', zhuzzhat'') >shurki-burki >trynka-brynka (= ?tryndi-bryndi 'plinkety-plunk') >zhalty-balty (= ? shaltaj-boltaj) > >Any meanings that you can attach to ANY of these would be helpful. >spasibo bol'shoje, > >Mark > >Mark Southern >Assistant Professor (Germanic and Indo-European Linguistics) >Dept. of Germanic Studies, EPS 3.102 >University of Texas at Austin >Austin, TX 78712, USA >ph: 1-512-232-6371 >fax: 1-512-471-4025 > ======================================== Curt F. Woolhiser Dept. of Slavic Languages and Literatures Calhoun 415 University of Texas Austin, TX 78713-7217 USA Tel. (512) 232-9133, (512) 471-3607 Fax: (512) 471-6710 Email: cfwoolhiser at mail.utexas.edu Slavic Department Home Page: http://www.dla.utexas.edu/depts/slavic/ ======================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at WANADOO.FR Fri Aug 25 22:49:58 2000 From: gadassov at WANADOO.FR (Adassovsky Georges) Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2000 23:49:58 +0100 Subject: Taxes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Taxes on E-Mail: Calm down, folks, you don't live in France! Georges ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From agleader at PLANETINTERNET.BE Sat Aug 26 06:10:12 2000 From: agleader at PLANETINTERNET.BE (AG Leader) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 08:10:12 +0200 Subject: Polish Writing Message-ID: Dear All, This is to announce a new website devoted to English translations of Polish Literature, called www.polishwriting.net Developed in collaboration with "2B - A Journal of Ideas" edited by Tomasz Tabako, the site provides two main features: - Translated extracts of Polish Writers (at present Chwin, Pilch and Tokarczuk) - A searchable database of published translations of Polish writing into English I would be most grateful if you could inform anyone who might be interested about the site. I would also be grateful for any recommendations on improving the site. Kind regards A.G. Leader ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dstephan at OSA.ATT.NE.JP Sat Aug 26 13:18:35 2000 From: dstephan at OSA.ATT.NE.JP (David Stephan) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 22:18:35 +0900 Subject: South Kurils / Northern Territories Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, I recently returned from a week-long trip to Kunashir (the island nearest Japan), one of the islands involved in the territorial dispute between Japan and Russia. There is ample documentation of the official Japanese position on the islands (http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/europe/russia/territory/index.html and http://www.mofa.go.jp/region/n-america/us/q&a/declaration.html among others). Does anyone know where I can find the official position of the Russian Federation? I found one site (http://www.sakhalin.ru/userhome/K&G/HISTORY/history.htm) that outlines the history of the Russian presence on the Kurils, but it was posted by a couple of guys in Novosibirsk, hardly an "official" view. Any suggestions or comments would be greatly appreciated. P.S. I will be posting a page on my trip and if anyone is interested, I'll post the URL on this list. David Stephan Teacher of English and Russian Kansai Soka Gakuen ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM Sat Aug 26 17:35:31 2000 From: AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM (AATSEEL Exec Dir) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 13:35:31 -0400 Subject: Hockey terminology Message-ID: Hi, I have some questions about hockey terminology in Russian and would appreciate any help (off-list, probably, since I doubt this will interest most SEELANGtsy): 1. In the title , what does MXL stand for? 2. What is the word for "quarterfinals" and for "semifinals"? 3. What do the abbreviations in the following team names stand for: TORPEDO Ja (one letter, "ja" or "ia" or however you want to transliterate it) TORPEDO NN (two letters) TORPEDO U-K (two letters separated by a dash) METALLURG Mg (two letters, capital and small) SKA (three letters) TsSKA (four letters, the first being the "ts" character) Thanks for any help anyone can provide! Jerry Ervin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From glushaa at ARCHANGEL.RU Sat Aug 26 19:17:07 2000 From: glushaa at ARCHANGEL.RU (Alexey Glushchenko) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 23:17:07 +0400 Subject: Hockey terminology Message-ID: > I have some questions about hockey terminology in Russian and would > appreciate any help (off-list, probably, since I doubt this will interest > most SEELANGtsy): > > 1. In the title , what does MXL stand for? Moskovskaya Hockeynaya Liga??? (not sure) > 2. What is the word for "quarterfinals" and for "semifinals"? chetvert'final & polufinal > 3. What do the abbreviations in the following team names stand for: The ones after the name are the names of the city where the club is located: > TORPEDO Ja (one letter, "ja" or "ia" or however you want to > transliterate it) Yaroslavl > TORPEDO NN (two letters) Nizhny Novgorod??? > TORPEDO U-K (two letters separated by a dash) Not sure here. Is the U in fact "U" or "Yu"? > METALLURG Mg (two letters, capital and small) Magnitogorsk > SKA (three letters) Sportivnyy Klub Armii (this abbreviation has been used "as is", without deciphering, for a few years, as well as the following one; in translation, unless it is important to show how it was formed, it is usually transliterated). > TsSKA (four letters, the first being the "ts" character) Tsentralnyy Sportivnyy Klub Armii > Thanks for any help anyone can provide! > > Jerry Ervin HTH, Alexey Glushchenko ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Sat Aug 26 15:17:22 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 16:17:22 +0100 Subject: Fw: Fw: Russian doublet phrases, etc. Message-ID: Dear Curt, Alex in Khar'kov has replied to your message, which I had put out on my own list "russian-teaching". Unfortunately he has not read your request to provide meanings! Anyway, you or your colleague could contact him direct. My suggestion would be to locate the publication by V. P. Belyanin and I. A. Butenko, Zhivaya Rech', Moscow, PAIMS, 1994. This is described by the author as "Slovar' razgovornykh vyrazhenii". It is not a very large tome, but it is full of word play expressions such as the ones quoted, and is one of the most entertaining books in my collection. As far as I know, it is unique. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Alex To: a.jameson at dial.pipex.com Subject: Re: Fw: Russian doublet phrases, etc. Date: 26 August 2000 11:38 ...Шалтай-болтай сидел на стене... (humpty-dumpty) ширли-мырли (название фильма) гоголь-моголь (еда) типичные детские рифмы ("Nursery rhymes"): мышка-норушка лисичка-сестричка зайчик-побегайчик чудо-юдо (рыба-кит) "дразнилки": жадина-говядина (соленый огрец) ябеда-корябеда плакса-вакса Сашка-какашка (это про меня:)) годится? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Sat Aug 26 23:27:08 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2000 18:27:08 -0500 Subject: Fw: Fw: Russian doublet phrases, etc. Message-ID: . The Russian doublet phrases that Curt (best regards, dear Curt) posted puzzled me. Having been born into the ethnic Russian family and having travelled extensively thoughout Russia from Arkhangelsk all the way down to Sochi - I must confess: I surrender. Sorry. To my limited knowledge of Russian these are either very local expressions or expressions that have gone out of use. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (979) 862-7771 (lab) (979) 862-9152 (home) fax (979) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dsdanaher at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Sun Aug 27 16:57:52 2000 From: dsdanaher at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (David S. Danaher) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 10:57:52 -0600 Subject: Conference Program for AATSEEL-Wisconsin Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 5523 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bougakov at MAIL.RU Sun Aug 27 18:28:13 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:28:13 +0400 Subject: Hockey terminology In-Reply-To: <200008261335_MC2-B10F-79E9@compuserve.com> Message-ID: Hello Jerry, Saturday, August 26, 2000, 9:35:31 PM, you wrote: AED> I have some questions about hockey terminology in Russian AED> 1. In the title , what does MXL stand for? Not MXL, but NHL - US National Hockey League Cup. AED> 2. What is the word for "quarterfinals" and for "semifinals"? "chetvertfinaly" and "polufinaly" AED> 3. What do the abbreviations in the following team names stand AED> for: AED> TORPEDO Ja (one letter, "ja" or "ia" or however you want to AED> transliterate it) Torpedo Yaroslavl AED> TORPEDO NN (two letters) Torpedo Nizhny Novgorod AED> TORPEDO U-K (two letters separated by a dash) ?? AED> METALLURG Mg (two letters, capital and small) Metallurg (Magnitogorsk) AED> SKA (three letters) ?? AED> TsSKA (four letters, the first being the "ts" character) Zentralnyj Sportivnyj Klub Armii - the ex-Soviet team of the Ministry of Defense, which still exists (club, not Ministry, of course). You can open www.Gazeta.ru and go to the "Sport" section. You can also look for the websites of the unofficial fanclubs - go to Yandex search engine' page (www.yandex.ru) and use the names of the teams and players as keywords. Cordially, Alexandre Bougakov Sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM Mon Aug 28 02:53:29 2000 From: AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM (Jerry Ervin) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:53:29 -0400 Subject: Leningradskij vokzal Message-ID: Can anyone tell me whether Moscow's LENINGRADSKIJ VOKZAL has been renamed, following the renaming of Leningrad to St. Petersburg? Or do people still use the old name for the train station? Thanks, Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at HOME.COM Mon Aug 28 04:05:22 2000 From: ggerhart at HOME.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Sun, 27 Aug 2000 21:05:22 -0700 Subject: Leningradskij vokzal In-Reply-To: <200008280254.TAA17391@mx6-e.mail.home.com> Message-ID: Not renamed -- same old Leningradskiy vokzal. Genevra Gerhart http://www.members.home.net/ggerhart New email address: ggerhart at home.com 206-329-0053 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Jerry Ervin Sent: 27 àâãóñòà 2000 ã. 19:53 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Leningradskij vokzal Can anyone tell me whether Moscow's LENINGRADSKIJ VOKZAL has been renamed= , following the renaming of Leningrad to St. Petersburg? Or do people stil= l use the old name for the train station? Thanks, Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Mon Aug 28 04:22:01 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 13:22:01 +0900 Subject: Leningradskij vokzal In-Reply-To: <200008272253_MC2-B13D-6B4E@compuserve.com> (message from Jerry Ervin on Sun, 27 Aug 2000 22:53:29 -0400) Message-ID: Leningradskij Vokzal hasn't been renamed. Among the most prominent names that haven't changed, Leningradskaja Oblast' stands out. St Petersburg was so renamed by a popular vote, other names did not change either because there were no votings or they were voted against in the district concerned. It is interesting that Petrogradskaja Storona -- a district of Leningrad -- preserved the name all through the Soviet period. They don't do things thoroughly. Cheers, Tsuji ----- New names haven't fully settled yet. When I told the ticket salesperson I wanted a ticket to Peterburg, I was asked, "Sankt??" One of my colleagues who specializes in Goskomstat data -- as he hardly speaks Russian -- always refers to the town as Sankt: he once told me he picked it up in Moscow. Native speakers of English correctly pronouce St Petersburg, but I have never heard Russians pronounce that way in "English". Perhaps they think Russian names should be pronounced in a Russian fashion. Old people haven't quite adapted to new names. I remember having been asked at a Moscow underground station Chisty Prudy if we were at Kirovskaja. And here in Petersburg, few taxi drivers know what is Kirochnaja: Saltykov Shhedrin is too familiar. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ajn at QUARTZ.GEOLOGY.UTORONTO.CA Mon Aug 28 10:44:40 2000 From: ajn at QUARTZ.GEOLOGY.UTORONTO.CA (Tony Naldrett) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 06:44:40 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: We want to switch our SEELANGS participation from this to another account. We've been subscribing for so long that we've forgotten how to subscribe and to unsubscribe, Can someone remind us? (off-line!) Galya Rylkova and Tony Naldrett ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Mon Aug 28 15:38:24 2000 From: cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (curt fredric woolhiser) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 10:38:24 -0500 Subject: Hungarian textbooks Message-ID: Kedves SEELANGosok! I've been asked to give a conference course in beginning Hungarian for a graduate student in East European Studies here at UT. Can anyone recommend a good, user-friendly introductory textbook (preferably recent) that would be appropriate for this purpose? Elore is hlasan koszonom! Curt Woolhiser ======================================== Curt F. Woolhiser Dept. of Slavic Languages and Literatures Calhoun 415 University of Texas Austin, TX 78713-7217 USA Tel. (512) 232-9133, (512) 471-3607 Fax: (512) 471-6710 Email: cfwoolhiser at mail.utexas.edu Slavic Department Home Page: http://www.dla.utexas.edu/depts/slavic/ ======================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU Mon Aug 28 15:48:05 2000 From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (Wayles Browne) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:48:05 -0400 Subject: Hungarian textbooks In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Kedves SEELANGosok! > >I've been asked to give a conference course in beginning Hungarian >for a graduate student in East European Studies here at UT. Can >anyone recommend a good, user-friendly introductory textbook >(preferably recent) that would be appropriate for this purpose? > >Elore is hlasan koszonom! > >Curt Woolhiser > Dear Curt, It has always struck me how well-arranged and systematic Hungarian textbooks generally are, compared with textbooks for various Slavic languages that I have taught. I still like an older book: Learn Hungarian by Ba'nhidi, Jo'kay and Szabo', several editions published by Tanko"nyvkiado', Budapest. There are tapes to go with it, and an additional set of printed materials and tapes for self-instruction that the Ohio State U. Center for Slavic and East European Studies put out, which guide the learner through the book step by step. Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics Department of Linguistics Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jfwhite at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Aug 28 16:25:07 2000 From: jfwhite at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Jake White) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 09:25:07 -0700 Subject: Hungarian textbooks Message-ID: I also like the good old Ba'nhidi text -- great grammar material and also very complete. Subject matter of some of texts (dialogues etc.) are outdated now, of course. As a supplement, I cannot recomend highly enough Torkenczy's "Hungarian verbs and essentials of grammar: a practical guide to the mastery of Hungarian. / by Miklos Torkenczy Paperback - 128 pages (November 1996) NTC Publishing Group; ISBN: 0844283509 Great outline of Hungarian grammar -- small, concise, but lots of good modern examples. I love this book! Also -- y'know, for all the superficiality of some of the 'Teach Yourself' series of language primers, at least take a look at Hungarian : A Complete Course for Beginners (Teach Yourself Books) by Zsuzsa Pontifex Paperback - 352 pages (March 1993) Teach Yourself; ISBN: 0844237965 Suprisingly more complete than the average "Teach Yourself" material -- nice modern presentation, dialogues and tapes. Again, would be great for supplemental material. tx, Jake ---------------------------------------------------- Jake White Slavic & East European Acquisitions Specialist Box 352900 University of Washington Libraries Seattle, WA 98195 USA jfwhite at u.washington.edu > Dear Curt, > It has always struck me how well-arranged and systematic Hungarian > textbooks generally are, compared with textbooks for various Slavic > languages that I have taught. I still like an older book: Learn > Hungarian by Ba'nhidi, Jo'kay and Szabo', several editions published > by Tanko"nyvkiado', Budapest. There are tapes to go with it, and > an additional set of printed materials and tapes for self-instruction > that the Ohio State U. Center for Slavic and East European Studies > put out, which guide the learner through the book step by step. > > Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics > Department of Linguistics > Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University > Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. > > tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) > fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) > e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dsdanaher at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Mon Aug 28 17:34:25 2000 From: dsdanaher at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (David S. Danaher) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 11:34:25 -0600 Subject: Reposting of AATSEEL-Wisconsin Program Information Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 4412 bytes Desc: not available URL: From AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM Mon Aug 28 19:19:37 2000 From: AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM (AATSEEL Exec Dir) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 15:19:37 -0400 Subject: Leningradskij vokzal Message-ID: Thanks, Tsuji! Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From galloway at HWS.EDU Tue Aug 29 00:47:48 2000 From: galloway at HWS.EDU (David J. Galloway) Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2000 20:47:48 -0400 Subject: Computer Posters Translation Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, The IT tech in our department would like to post Russian translations of the following English posters (all on computer topics). Could anyone offer advice on the most accurate and natural translations of these phrases? Please reply off-list. 1. Good computer work habits 2. Use the spell checker 3. Store diskettes in a safe place 4. Use good keyboard technique 5. Recycle your computer paper 6. Leave the computer area clean 7. No food or drinks in the computer area, please. 8. Remember to save your work often. 9. If you forget to save, you could lose your work...and maybe your cool! Thanks in advance, ________________________________ David J. Galloway Assistant Professor of Russian Dept. of Modern Languages 4145 Scandling Hobart & William Smith Colleges Geneva, NY 14456-3397 Phone: (315) 781-3790 Fax: (315) 781-3822 Email: galloway at hws.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gieseld at UNI-MUENSTER.DE Tue Aug 29 09:02:57 2000 From: gieseld at UNI-MUENSTER.DE (Dorothea Gieselmann) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:02:57 +0100 Subject: textbook recommendation Message-ID: Sorry for my late reply: I suppose this article question matters a lot to the foreign ministry of (the) Ukraine because they consider it the English language equivalent of the use of "na" or "v" Ukraine in Russian. "Na" is the traditional way to put it, now considered not pc, probably because of the easy etymology of the word Ukraine that is linked to okraina, kraj etc. At least some Ukrainians feel that the usage "na" implies Ukraine to be the periphery of Russia. Dorothea Gieselmann William Ryan schrieb: > The two recent objectors to my message about the use of the English definite > article in the name of the Ukraine have overreacted and apparently not read > very carefully what I said. > I speak as a longtime and fervent believer in the cultural independence of > the Ukraine and Belarus, with a good many friends of both nationalities, and > happy memories of a visit to the Ukrainian Research Institute at Harvard. I am > happy that those two lands have now achieved political independence (more or > less) and am on record in several places as pointing out that the view of > ‘Russia’ as a continuum stretching from Kiev Rus’ to the USSR , as it appears > in most Great Russian (and quite a lot of Western) historiography, is > erroneous. > As I understand it from the press, the demand for removal of the English > definite article came in fact from the Ukrainian foreign ministry. I can only > imagine that they took this strange step as a result of representations from > North American activists, since it can hardly matter much to them at home. Are > North American Ukrainian nationalists like North American Irish nationalists, > i.e. much more 'patriotic' than their counterparts back home (I speak as an > occasional Irishman)? > The point I thought I had made is that the use of the definite article in > English (and French, e.g. ‘La France’ and German, e.g. ‘die Schweiz’) is not > thought to be offensive in other placename contexts and in fact cannot by > itself be offensive, as the analogues demonstrate, e.g. the Dutch do not object > to ‘The Netherlands’ (and are tolerant even of our sloppy and incorrect use of > ‘Holland’). English speakers neither intend to offend nor perceive any grounds > for offence in the use of the definite article - 'The Ukraine' it is simply the > name which we have always used. And since neither Russian nor Ukrainian have > articles the alleged offensive connotation cannot arise in those languages > either. > The fact is that the English definite article cannot in any way suggest > subordination to Russia (which I gather is the reason for all this) - but the > word ‘Ukraina’ certainly does suggest a peripheral status. It is therefore > illogical to ban the use of the semantically blameless English article while > keeping the semantically loaded noun. A new state name (my suggestion of Kiev > Rus', though light-hearted, was not entirely frivolous) would solve that > problem, although it would leave anglophone writers still with a problem of > appropriate usage in writing in historical and geographical contexts before the > adoption of the new state name - an awkwardness which has already arisen in the > case of Belarus, where the appropriateness of ‘Belarusian’ in medieval contexts > is very dubious. > As a member of a minority in another multiracial community, I do not have > to be told that the terminology of race is a subtle, often illogical, and fast > changing area which has to be handled sensitively. But this is NOT about > terminology of race - place names are not at all the same thing, the problems > of usage are different, particularly in historical writing, and are subject to > different pressures. If the perceived offence lies in the use of the definite > article and nothing else then presumably this must apply to every language > which has a definite article. Perhaps other participants in SEELANGS could let > us know if the Germans are now also obliged to remove the article from ‘die > Ukraine’ and the French from ‘l’Ukraine’? In French in particular the definite > article is widely used with names of countries; to leave them out would sound > very odd and ungrammatical - has the Academie Francaise expressed an opinion? > In fact, is what is perceived as politically correct in some US circles to be > imposed as linguistically correct not only on the whole English-speaking world > but also on all other countries as well? Now that really is culturally > offensive! > Will Ryan > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Professor W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA > Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) > Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB > tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. > fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. > The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949 > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Tue Aug 29 11:19:46 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 20:19:46 +0900 Subject: textbook recommendation In-Reply-To: <39AB7C41.551C6438@uni-muenster.de> (message from Dorothea Gieselmann on Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:02:57 +0100) Message-ID: Moscow Times and St Petersburg Time say Ukraine without the definite article while all the Russian newspaper I have read in Moscow and Petersburg to date say "na Ukraine". That may perhaps be one of the many reasons why Ukrainian government intends to ban Russian newspapers. ("slander" is the official pretext). Cheers, Tsuji ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tbeasley at UCLA.EDU Tue Aug 29 14:35:06 2000 From: tbeasley at UCLA.EDU (Tim Beasley) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 10:35:06 -0400 Subject: Conf. gen.? In-Reply-To: <200008291119.UAA03819@tsuji.yt.cache.waseda.ac.jp> Message-ID: Ahoj. I'm reading an old German-language paper by Oblak. The abbreviation "conf. gen." is liberally sprinkled throughout, generally followed by nouns that are clearly genitive in form. Could somebody be so kind as to unabbreviate "conf. gen." for me, or point me to a commonly available list of abbreviations and their full forms? I take "gen." to be Latin for 'genitive', but "conf."? Tim Beasley grad student, UCLA Slavic ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Estrellas at HOME.IVM.DE Tue Aug 29 15:28:10 2000 From: Estrellas at HOME.IVM.DE (Dieter.Stern) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:28:10 +0200 Subject: Conf. gen.? In-Reply-To: <200008291422.HAA17298@caracal.noc.ucla.edu> Message-ID: >Ahoj. > >I'm reading an old German-language paper by Oblak. The abbreviation "conf. >gen." is liberally sprinkled throughout, generally followed by nouns that >are clearly genitive in form. > >Could somebody be so kind as to unabbreviate "conf. gen." for me, or point >me to a commonly available list of abbreviations and their full forms? I >take "gen." to be Latin for 'genitive', but "conf."? Perhaps Latin confer 'compare'? Dieter Stern ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tbeasley at UCLA.EDU Tue Aug 29 17:04:02 2000 From: tbeasley at UCLA.EDU (Tim Beasley) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:04:02 -0400 Subject: Conf. gen. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Could conf. be confer meaning "compare this with...."--the same thing >we write "cf." nowadays? How about citing a sentence or two? > Hello. Sample sentences with "Conf. gen."? Sure. S = long s in what follows; umlauts are "spelled out". Understanding the abbreviation probably isn't crucial. And 'gen.' as "genitive" was a bad assumption on my part, since it's also used in proximity to dative, accusative, and instrumental forms. AfslPh 11:412: In der Conf. gen. ist nur ein gen. auf -u: sadv. AfslPh 12: 33: In der Conf. gen. sind bereits ganz in heutiger Weise nur gen. plur. auf -ov: swetikow I 17, .... AfslPh 12: 46: In der Conf. gen. ist bei den masc. nur Swetikom I 38, 46, Sweticom II 9; in der Klagen. H. dalykom und noch die protestantischen Drucke des XVI. Jahrh. haben bei den masc. nur -om. Trub. C. zhlouekom XII, 30, dalShnikom 23, otrokom 30, vnukom 30...." AfslPh 12: 47: Waehrend in der Conf. gen. die masc. noch -om haben, finden wir bei den neutr. schon -am: deylam I 2, II 2 neben -em bei den weichen Staemmen: preSegayem I 45, II 11." . AfslPh 13: 29. Wir haben aus diesem Jahrhunderte keinen Mangel an anderen Sprachquellen und doch wuerde man in denselben vergebens nach einem dat. gospodi suchen. -- In Conf. gen. nur goSpudi I4, goSpudy II 4, Trub. C. goSpudi.... AfslPh 13: 32. Acc. pl. judi: Conf. gen. ludy I 49, II 14, ludi Trub. C. ... Any hunches? Tim Beasley ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From smd6n at VIRGINIA.EDU Tue Aug 29 17:08:57 2000 From: smd6n at VIRGINIA.EDU (Stephen Dickey) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:08:57 -0400 Subject: Conf. gen. In-Reply-To: <200008291651.JAA20808@caracal.noc.ucla.edu> Message-ID: It seems pretty obvious from the German that Conf. gen. is some source text. If "Conf." meant cf. it would not be capitalized in mid-sentence anyway. Good luck, Stephen Dickey >>Could conf. be confer meaning "compare this with...."--the same thing >>we write "cf." nowadays? How about citing a sentence or two? >> >Hello. > >Sample sentences with "Conf. gen."? Sure. S = long s in what follows; >umlauts are "spelled out". > >Understanding the abbreviation probably isn't crucial. And 'gen.' as >"genitive" was a bad assumption on my part, since it's also used in >proximity to dative, accusative, and instrumental forms. > >AfslPh 11:412: In der Conf. gen. ist nur ein gen. auf -u: sadv. > >AfslPh 12: 33: In der Conf. gen. sind bereits ganz in heutiger Weise nur >gen. plur. auf -ov: swetikow I 17, .... > >AfslPh 12: 46: In der Conf. gen. ist bei den masc. nur Swetikom I 38, 46, >Sweticom II 9; in der Klagen. H. dalykom und noch die protestantischen >Drucke des XVI. Jahrh. haben bei den masc. nur -om. Trub. C. zhlouekom >XII, 30, dalShnikom 23, otrokom 30, vnukom 30...." > >AfslPh 12: 47: Waehrend in der Conf. gen. die masc. noch -om haben, finden >wir bei den neutr. schon -am: deylam I 2, II 2 neben -em bei den weichen >Staemmen: preSegayem I 45, II 11." . > >AfslPh 13: 29. Wir haben aus diesem Jahrhunderte keinen Mangel an anderen >Sprachquellen und doch wuerde man in denselben vergebens nach einem dat. >gospodi suchen. -- In Conf. gen. nur goSpudi I4, goSpudy II 4, Trub. C. >goSpudi.... > >AfslPh 13: 32. Acc. pl. judi: Conf. gen. ludy I 49, II 14, ludi Trub. C. ... > >Any hunches? > >Tim Beasley > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hia5 at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Aug 29 17:15:13 2000 From: hia5 at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Howard I. Aronson) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 12:15:13 -0500 Subject: Position in Polish Literature Message-ID: The Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures of the University of Chicago invites applicants for a tenure-track position, rank open, with a specialization in Polish literature. Preference will be given to specialists with expertise in more than one Slavic literature. Applicants should have at least 3 letters of recommendation, CV, transcripts, and samples of scholarly writing sent to: Literature search committee, Foster Hall 405 Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures 1130 East 59th Street Chicago, IL 60637 Dossiers should arrive before 27 November 2000. The University of Chicago is an Affirmative Actiom Equal Employment Opportunity employer. Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From andersen at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Tue Aug 29 18:25:09 2000 From: andersen at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Henning Andersen) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 11:25:09 -0700 Subject: Conf. gen. Message-ID: Sometimes abbreviated CG, the Slovenian Confessio generalis of 1428 was published by Oblak himself in 1889. Could this be it? H >>Could conf. be confer meaning "compare this with...."--the same thing >>we write "cf." nowadays? How about citing a sentence or two? >> >Hello. > >Sample sentences with "Conf. gen."? Sure. S = long s in what follows; >umlauts are "spelled out". > >Understanding the abbreviation probably isn't crucial. And 'gen.' as >"genitive" was a bad assumption on my part, since it's also used in >proximity to dative, accusative, and instrumental forms. > >AfslPh 11:412: In der Conf. gen. ist nur ein gen. auf -u: sadv. > >AfslPh 12: 33: In der Conf. gen. sind bereits ganz in heutiger Weise nur >gen. plur. auf -ov: swetikow I 17, .... > >AfslPh 12: 46: In der Conf. gen. ist bei den masc. nur Swetikom I 38, 46, >Sweticom II 9; in der Klagen. H. dalykom und noch die protestantischen >Drucke des XVI. Jahrh. haben bei den masc. nur -om. Trub. C. zhlouekom >XII, 30, dalShnikom 23, otrokom 30, vnukom 30...." > >AfslPh 12: 47: Waehrend in der Conf. gen. die masc. noch -om haben, finden >wir bei den neutr. schon -am: deylam I 2, II 2 neben -em bei den weichen >Staemmen: preSegayem I 45, II 11." . > >AfslPh 13: 29. Wir haben aus diesem Jahrhunderte keinen Mangel an anderen >Sprachquellen und doch wuerde man in denselben vergebens nach einem dat. >gospodi suchen. -- In Conf. gen. nur goSpudi I4, goSpudy II 4, Trub. C. >goSpudi.... > >AfslPh 13: 32. Acc. pl. judi: Conf. gen. ludy I 49, II 14, ludi Trub. C. ... > >Any hunches? > >Tim Beasley > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ||||||| Henning Andersen ||||||| Slavic Languages and Literatures ||||||| University of California ||||||| P.O. Box 951502 ||||||| LOS ANGELES CA 90095-1502 ||||||| Phone: 1-310-837-6743 ||||||| Fax: 1-310-206-5263 ||||||| http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/slavic/slavic.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From adrozd at BAMA.UA.EDU Tue Aug 29 18:37:57 2000 From: adrozd at BAMA.UA.EDU (Andrew M. Drozd) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 13:37:57 -0500 Subject: Interactive Exercises for Golosa, Book 2 Message-ID: Dear SEELangers: I recently added several pages to my interactive exercises for Golosa, Book 2. There are now vocabulary lists and verb conjugations for units 4 through 10. The URL is: http://bama.ua.edu/~adrozd/russian/index.htm -- Andrew M. Drozd Assistant Professor of Russian adrozd at bama.ua.edu Department of Modern Languages and Classics Box 870246 University of Alabama Tuscaloosa, AL 35487 tel. (205) 348-5720 fax. (205) 348-2042 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tbeasley at UCLA.EDU Tue Aug 29 21:14:57 2000 From: tbeasley at UCLA.EDU (Tim Beasley) Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 17:14:57 -0400 Subject: Conf. gen. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 1. >It seems pretty obvious from the German that Conf. gen. is some source >text. If "Conf." meant cf. it would not be capitalized in mid-sentence >anyway. 2. >Sometimes abbreviated CG, the Slovenian Confessio generalis of 1428 was >published by Oblak himself in 1889. Could this be it? Bingo! That has to be it. Thank you, all who replied. Tim Beasley ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM Wed Aug 30 16:54:30 2000 From: kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM (richard tomback) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 12:54:30 -0400 Subject: new e mail address Message-ID: my new e mail address is Kaunas4 at cs.com thanks, RT ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dpbrowne+ at PITT.EDU Wed Aug 30 20:29:55 2000 From: dpbrowne+ at PITT.EDU (Devin Browne) Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2000 16:29:55 -0400 Subject: Russian Courses Online (fwd) Message-ID: Dear SEELANGERS: This message was sent to me recently, but I'm not aware of what universities might offer Russian on-line. If you know of any, please contact this person directly. Thanks! Devin ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Devin, I would like to take Russian for credit, but no univerisity offers Russian where I live. Do you know of any universities that offer Russian courses online? jpacheco44 at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ---------- End Forwarded Message ----------r ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH Thu Aug 31 07:47:54 2000 From: Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH (Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 09:47:54 +0200 Subject: Stalin and culture(s) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear colleagues Could you tell me where and when J. Stalin's famous sentence "the cultures, socialist by their content and national by their form" has been said or written for the firts time? And what is the exact original text? Thank you in advance Patrick SERIOT ___Patrick SERIOT_________________________ ___Faculte des Lettres_______________________ ___Langues slaves-BFSH2-UNIL________________ ___CH-1015_LAUSANNE_____________________ ___Tel_+41_21_692_30_01_________________ ___Fax_+41_21_692_29_35_________________ ___e-mail_Patrick.Seriot at slav.unil.ch__________ ___http://www.unil.ch/slav/ling______________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH Thu Aug 31 11:13:33 2000 From: Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH (Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 13:13:33 +0200 Subject: Russian doublet phrases, etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: All those sentences are not necessarily meaningful. They are a play with sounds. A probable origin is the Russian language spoken in the Caucasus, where people don't say simply "pomidor" for "tomato", but "pomidor-momidor", just for the pleasure of playing with sounds. It seems to by wide spread in the Caucasus. Patrick SERIOT ___Patrick SERIOT_________________________ ___Faculte des Lettres_______________________ ___Langues slaves-BFSH2-UNIL________________ ___CH-1015_LAUSANNE_____________________ ___Tel_+41_21_692_30_01_________________ ___Fax_+41_21_692_29_35_________________ ___e-mail_Patrick.Seriot at slav.unil.ch__________ ___http://www.unil.ch/slav/ling______________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Thu Aug 31 10:57:21 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 11:57:21 +0100 Subject: Stalin and culture(s) Message-ID: K. V. Dushenko's Slovar' Sovremennykh Tsitat gives: Politicheskii otchet TsK XVI s"ezdu VKP(b) 27 iyunya 1930, razd. III, 2. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Stalin and culture(s) Date: 31 August 2000 08:47 Dear colleagues Could you tell me where and when J. Stalin's famous sentence "the cultures, socialist by their content and national by their form" has been said or written for the firts time? And what is the exact original text? Thank you in advance Patrick SERIOT ___Patrick SERIOT_________________________ ___Faculte des Lettres_______________________ ___Langues slaves-BFSH2-UNIL________________ ___CH-1015_LAUSANNE_____________________ ___Tel_+41_21_692_30_01_________________ ___Fax_+41_21_692_29_35_________________ ___e-mail_Patrick.Seriot at slav.unil.ch__________ ___http://www.unil.ch/slav/ling______________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU Thu Aug 31 11:59:38 2000 From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 07:59:38 -0400 Subject: Stalin and culture(s) Message-ID: According to K. V. Dushenko, _Slovar' sovremennykh tsitat_ (Moscow: Agraf, 1997), p. 339, the phrase "sotsialisticheskaia po svoemu soderzhaniiu i natsional'naia po forme kul'tura" is from _Politicheskii otchet TsK XVI s"ezdu VKP(b) 27 iunia 1930_, razd. III, 2. Robert A. Rothstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Thu Aug 31 13:13:59 2000 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 14:13:59 +0100 Subject: Stalin and culture(s) Message-ID: >K. V. Dushenko's Slovar' Sovremennykh Tsitat gives: >Politicheskii otchet TsK XVI s"ezdu VKP(b) 27 iyunya 1930, >razd. III, 2. >Andrew Jameson >Chair, Russian Committee, ALL >Languages and Professional Development >1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK >Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) Indeed. And the printed version of the text is: Chto takoe nacional'aja kul'tura pri diktature proletariata? Socialisticheskaja [in bold] po svoemu soderzhaniju i nacional'naja po forme kul'tura, imejushchaja svoej cel'ju vospitat' massy v duxe socializma i internacionalizma. I.V. Stalin, Sochinenija, t.12, M., Gos. izdat-vo pol. lit-ry, 1949, p.367. John Dunn. > >---------- >From: Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: Stalin and culture(s) >Date: 31 August 2000 08:47 > >Dear colleagues >Could you tell me where and when J. Stalin's famous sentence "the cultures, >socialist by their content and national by their form" has been said or >written for the firts time? And what is the exact original text? >Thank you in advance >Patrick SERIOT > > ___Patrick SERIOT_________________________ >___Faculte des Lettres_______________________ >___Langues slaves-BFSH2-UNIL________________ >___CH-1015_LAUSANNE_____________________ >___Tel_+41_21_692_30_01_________________ >___Fax_+41_21_692_29_35_________________ >___e-mail_Patrick.Seriot at slav.unil.ch__________ >___http://www.unil.ch/slav/ling______________ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Dunn Department of Slavonic Languages Hetherington Building University of Glasgow Glasgow G12 8RS Great Britain Telephone (+44) 141 330-5591 Fax (+44) 141 330-5593 e-mail J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From burke at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Thu Aug 31 14:03:16 2000 From: burke at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Mary Burke) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 10:03:16 -0400 Subject: Harvard College Library, Slavic Librarian Opening Message-ID: Harvard College Library Slavic Librarian Area Studies Department Reporting to the Head of the Slavic Division, the Slavic Librarian is responsible for cataloging, collection development, acquisitions and reference services for Ukrainian and Polish areas. Performs on-line original, adaptive and copy cataloging in Ukrainian, Polish and Russian in all formats. Acquires materials in relevant languages, monitors approval plans, responsible for effective use of funds. Works on special cataloging projects. Participates in training and supervision of student/hourly assistants. Contributes to team effort by accomplishing related duties as required. Preferred candidates will have an advanced degree in Slavic Studies, MLS or equivalent combination of relevant education/experience. Fluent Ukrainian and English; working knowledge of other Slavic language, preferably Polish; Russian desirable. Experience in cataloging Ukrainian and other Slavic materials desirable; working knowledge of USMARC formats, AACR2, LCSH, LC classification, OCLC; monographic cataloging experience at professional or paraprofessional level in integrated on-line library environment desirable. Depth of understanding of Ukrainian/Polish history, culture/social systems; knowledge of publishing and book trade of relevant countries; experience in book selection and familiarity with approval plans desirable. Excellent organizational/interpersonal skills, accuracy, versatility, and tolerance of change required. Must have ability to learn quickly and function well with considerable autonomy within a fast-paced, goal-oriented and productivity-conscious environment. Harvard University offers a competitive program of benefits. Appointment salary is dependent on qualifications. Interested parties are invited to submit a letter of application addressing position qualifications, resume, and the names, addresses, telephone and fax numbers of three references to: Resume Processing Center, Harvard University, Requisition #6908, 11 Holyoke Street, Cambridge, MA 02138. Or apply on-line to www.hr.harvard.edu/employment/jobs.html. HARVARD UNIVERSITY UPHOLDS A COMMITMENT TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION AND EQUAL EMPLOYMENT OPPORTUNITY. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pellegrino.6 at POP.SERVICE.OHIO-STATE.EDU Thu Aug 31 17:45:16 2000 From: pellegrino.6 at POP.SERVICE.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Valerie Pellegrino) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 12:45:16 -0500 Subject: Russian Courses Online (fwd) In-Reply-To: <30647.3176641795@adsl-141-151-139-37.bellatlantic.net> Message-ID: I would also like to receive any responses to this inquiry. Thanks, Valerie Pellegrino pellegrino.6 at osu.edu >Dear SEELANGERS: This message was sent to me recently, but I'm not aware >of what universities might offer Russian on-line. If you know of any, >please contact this person directly. Thanks! > >Devin > >---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > >Devin, >I would like to take Russian for credit, but no univerisity offers Russian >where I live. Do you know of any universities that offer Russian courses >online? >jpacheco44 at hotmail.com >_________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. > >Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at >http://profiles.msn.com. > > >---------- End Forwarded Message ----------r > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- Prof. Valerie Pellegrino Director, Russian Langauge Program Department of Slavic and East European Languages and Literatures The Ohio State University 232 Cunz Hall 1841 Millikin Road Columbus, OH 43210 614-292-4398 pellegrino.6 at osu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------