From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Thu Jun 1 14:58:22 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 10:58:22 -0400 Subject: Russian/English lexical database in .RSF format? Message-ID: Does anyone have a Russian/English lexical database in .RSF format? {"Revised Standard Format"} It is used in Summer Institute of Linguistics' "LinguaLinks" program. I'm working on one myself, but I don't fully trust my abilities :-) Thanks! -Kenneth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mct7 at COLUMBIA.EDU Thu Jun 1 19:53:05 2000 From: mct7 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Michael Clark Troy) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 15:53:05 -0400 Subject: Russian Studies programs Message-ID: Before this debate over saving Russian programs dies down, I thought I might weigh in with the opinion of a Slavist recently driven into the arms of commerce. First off, regarding the necessity of educating students practically so they can get jobs. The vast majority of tasks performed in private sector employment are so specialized in terms of content that students could not in any case be trained for them, nor do employers expect college students entering the job market to enter with tremendous sector-specific skills. Students who undertake "practical" courses of study at liberal arts colleges signal nothing so much as their ability and readiness to subordinate their real desires to those of a market, to meld with a superego. Employers DO seem to prize this feature. There is one skillset widely prized throughout the job marketplace, and that is computer literacy, the ability to sit down at any computer and figure out how to do what you need to do. At a minimum, employers want people who can deal in the various subdivisions of MSOffice: Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and -- as a bonus -- Access. A wide range of applications fans out from this central suite. If we really wanted to make our students work-ready, we'd set up a curriculum which encourages them to use more types of software than just the word processor, without necessarily changing any of the content we touch upon. But the idea of moving over to Business Russian and Technical Russian strikes me as silly and self-destructive. If you're going to teach students to approach everything in an instrumental fashion, why bother being a humanist? Why not just find a better-paying technical or administrative job for yourself? No no no. In these times of unprecedented wealth creation, which all too often translates into SUVs, McMansions and McPapers, there is a greater need than ever for the humanities (and for Dostoievskii in particular) to be taught well and enchantingly. Certainly religion can't begin do the job the human sciences stole from it lo those many years ago. If the humanities in general and Slavics in specific are imploding, it's not because they're not practical enough, it's because they've become insufficiently compelling. If the humanists become grooms in the stables of technocracy, you'd better watch where you step. Clark Troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From simplify3 at JUNO.COM Thu Jun 1 22:41:16 2000 From: simplify3 at JUNO.COM (Kenneth E Udut) Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2000 18:41:16 -0400 Subject: Russian Studies programs Message-ID: [...] > There is one skillset widely prized throughout the job marketplace, > and that is > computer literacy, the ability to sit down at any computer and > figure out how > to do what you need to do. At a minimum, employers want people who > can deal in > the various subdivisions of MSOffice: Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and > -- as a > bonus -- Access. A wide range of applications fans out from this > central > suite. If we really wanted to make our students work-ready, we'd > set up a > curriculum which encourages them to use more types of software than > just the > word processor, without necessarily changing any of the content we > touch upon. This is very true. You can do *many* jobs - even jobs that you could care less about, getting varying rates of pay, if you learn competence in the Microsoft Office suite. As an added bonus, learn a little macro-making and Visual Basic for Applications, and you can get hired at any medium to large company. Of course, if universities and colleges do that, humanities (the well-rounded individual human being is king and queen) - that crazy religion of schools and universities everywhere - will certainly fall victim to the latest booming religion - the religion of commerce, efficiency, marketability, utilitarianism - and colleges and unversities will certainly become Trade Schools - which may not be a bad thing in the short run - but in the long run, who knows? The god of the "bottom-line" is gaining power over universities and colleges, at least in the United States it seems, and, like the Invisible Hand of economic theory, may push Slavists out the door if there is no adapting. [and this way, the beloved philologist will still have a home, and purpose]. -Kenneth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aaanem at FACSTAFF.WM.EDU Fri Jun 2 20:26:54 2000 From: aaanem at FACSTAFF.WM.EDU (Tony Anemone) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 16:26:54 -0400 Subject: "Slide library" in Russian? Message-ID: Would someone out there please let me know what the Russian equivalent for "Slide library" is? Thanks, Tony Anemone aaanem at wm.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Jun 2 20:24:47 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:24:47 -0500 Subject: "Slide library" in Russian? Message-ID: > Would someone out there please let me know what the Russian equivalent for > "Slide library" is? > > Thanks, > > Tony Anemone ?????????? ??????? (biblioteka slajdov) With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at HOME.COM Fri Jun 2 23:11:19 2000 From: asred at HOME.COM (Steve Marder) Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 19:11:19 -0400 Subject: "Slide library" in Russian? Message-ID: Pavel Samsonov wrote: > > > Would someone out there please let me know what the Russian equivalent for > > "Slide library" is? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tony Anemone > > ?????????? ??????? (biblioteka slajdov) > > With compliments, > > Pavel (Paul) Samsonov > EDAD, College of Education, > Texas A&M University > tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) > (409) 862-9152 (home) > fax (409) 862-4347 > e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Slajdoteka. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frankdp at EROLS.COM Sat Jun 3 21:02:45 2000 From: frankdp at EROLS.COM (Frank Poulin) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 17:02:45 -0400 Subject: Russian Studies programs Message-ID: I supervise a team of test and evaluation engineers and technicians as well as computer systems deployment personnel. Our work requires an understanding of switch, router, and server technology (I'm sure most readers have heard of Novell, NT, Cisco and Nortel). These systems are not that difficult to understand, given 2 to 3 years of good experience. They are certainly not as difficult as Russian-- even when combined. What I really prize is the employee who can write well. It's not too hard to find employees, with or without college, who understand the technology, in spite of their high salary demands. It is difficult, however, if not at times seemingly impossible, to find someone who understands the technology "and" can write well. Because our work involves a great deal of customer interaction (not only in developing strategy papers and technical evaluations of new products for the customer, but also in working with proposal-writing teams in pursuit of new business-- this stuff is extraordinarily fun by the way), any technical person who writes well offers our group a big bonus and is often invaluable. In my opinion, the humanities might be gaining a reputation outside of the university as a 4-year long sensitivity-training seminar that sometimes seems to border on group therapy. Just take a look at the weekly US News magazine to see what the public reads about the humanities. Really, I need people who can write well. I need people who can think for themselves. Promote Slavic Departments as a place where students do not just pick up a second language. Promote Slavic Departments as a place where students learn to write well and develop original ideas. Promote the "great" and "universal" works--- Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Pasternak (and add something about Goethe, Schopenhauer, and Hegel). Teach them about Russian as well as European history. Require students to write often. And by all means, avoid this gender and ethnic balkanization that seems to have taken over some, if not many, humanities departments. Lead other departments by your example. I know the above sounds naive, but if US News and other publications were praising graduates of humanities departments for strong writing and original thinking skills and for their knowledge of the great works of human creativity, (rather than belittling their departments and schools for wallowing in ethnic and gender-oriented accusations), the reputation of humanities departments would be much better than it is today. Business schools and computer science departments have a lock on the technology. Their professors know this and their professors are confident in their mission. Humanities departments "should", and I repeat "should", have a lock on the development of strong writing skills and original thinking habits. But they don't! And it's becoming more and more apparent to those of us on the outside. Many on this list are professors. Professors in the humanities need to reverse this trend. And let me add that the generation that went to school in the 1950's can't reverse this trend themselves-- they are not superhuman. I really need people who can write well and think for themselves. It's very competitive out here. All the best, Frank -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth E Udut To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Date: Thursday, June 01, 2000 6:36 PM Subject: Re: Russian Studies programs >[...] >> There is one skillset widely prized throughout the job marketplace, >> and that is >> computer literacy, the ability to sit down at any computer and >> figure out how >> to do what you need to do. At a minimum, employers want people who >> can deal in >> the various subdivisions of MSOffice: Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and >> -- as a >> bonus -- Access. A wide range of applications fans out from this >> central >> suite. If we really wanted to make our students work-ready, we'd >> set up a >> curriculum which encourages them to use more types of software than >> just the >> word processor, without necessarily changing any of the content we >> touch upon. > >This is very true. You can do *many* jobs - >even jobs that you could care less about, >getting varying rates of pay, if you learn >competence in the Microsoft Office suite. > >As an added bonus, learn a little macro-making >and Visual Basic for >Applications, and you can get hired at >any medium to large company. > >Of course, if universities and colleges >do that, humanities (the well-rounded individual >human being is king and queen) - that crazy >religion of schools and universities everywhere - >will certainly fall victim to the latest booming >religion - the religion of commerce, >efficiency, marketability, utilitarianism - >and colleges and unversities will certainly >become Trade Schools - which may not be >a bad thing in the short run - but in the long >run, who knows? > >The god of the "bottom-line" is gaining power >over universities and colleges, at least in >the United States it seems, and, like >the Invisible Hand of economic theory, >may push Slavists out the door if there >is no adapting. > >[and this way, the beloved philologist >will still have a home, and purpose]. > >-Kenneth > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Sat Jun 3 23:36:41 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Sat, 3 Jun 2000 16:36:41 -0700 Subject: Russian Studies programs In-Reply-To: <000001bfcd9f$4d118070$b992accf@poulin> Message-ID: I am only moderately computer literate, but I am an excellent writer, and proficient in Russian. Do you want to hire me? -Martha Sherwood- On Sat, 3 Jun 2000, Frank Poulin wrote: > I supervise a team of test and evaluation engineers and technicians as well > as computer systems deployment personnel. Our work requires an > understanding of switch, router, and server technology (I'm sure most > readers have heard of Novell, NT, Cisco and Nortel). These systems are not > that difficult to understand, given 2 to 3 years of good experience. They > are certainly not as difficult as Russian-- even when combined. > > What I really prize is the employee who can write well. It's not too hard > to find employees, with or without college, who understand the technology, > in spite of their high salary demands. > > It is difficult, however, if not at times seemingly impossible, to find > someone who understands the technology "and" can write well. > > Because our work involves a great deal of customer interaction (not only in > developing strategy papers and technical evaluations of new products for the > customer, but also in working with proposal-writing teams in pursuit of new > business-- this stuff is extraordinarily fun by the way), any technical > person who writes well offers our group a big bonus and is often invaluable. > > In my opinion, the humanities might be gaining a reputation outside of the > university as a 4-year long sensitivity-training seminar that sometimes > seems to border on group therapy. Just take a look at the weekly US News > magazine to see what the public reads about the humanities. > > Really, I need people who can write well. I need people who can think for > themselves. Promote Slavic Departments as a place where students do not > just pick up a second language. Promote Slavic Departments as a place where > students learn to write well and develop original ideas. Promote the > "great" and "universal" works--- Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Pasternak (and add > something about Goethe, Schopenhauer, and Hegel). Teach them about Russian > as well as European history. Require students to write often. And by all > means, avoid this gender and ethnic balkanization that seems to have taken > over some, if not many, humanities departments. Lead other departments by > your example. > > I know the above sounds naive, but if US News and other publications were > praising graduates of humanities departments for strong writing and original > thinking skills and for their knowledge of the great works of human > creativity, (rather than belittling their departments and schools for > wallowing in ethnic and gender-oriented accusations), the reputation of > humanities departments would be much better than it is today. > > Business schools and computer science departments have a lock on the > technology. Their professors know this and their professors are confident > in their mission. Humanities departments "should", and I repeat "should", > have a lock on the development of strong writing skills and original > thinking habits. But they don't! And it's becoming more and more apparent > to those of us on the outside. > > Many on this list are professors. Professors in the humanities need to > reverse this trend. And let me add that the generation that went to school > in the 1950's can't reverse this trend themselves-- they are not superhuman. > I really need people who can write well and think for themselves. It's very > competitive out here. > > All the best, > Frank > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kenneth E Udut > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Date: Thursday, June 01, 2000 6:36 PM > Subject: Re: Russian Studies programs > > > >[...] > >> There is one skillset widely prized throughout the job marketplace, > >> and that is > >> computer literacy, the ability to sit down at any computer and > >> figure out how > >> to do what you need to do. At a minimum, employers want people who > >> can deal in > >> the various subdivisions of MSOffice: Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and > >> -- as a > >> bonus -- Access. A wide range of applications fans out from this > >> central > >> suite. If we really wanted to make our students work-ready, we'd > >> set up a > >> curriculum which encourages them to use more types of software than > >> just the > >> word processor, without necessarily changing any of the content we > >> touch upon. > > > >This is very true. You can do *many* jobs - > >even jobs that you could care less about, > >getting varying rates of pay, if you learn > >competence in the Microsoft Office suite. > > > >As an added bonus, learn a little macro-making > >and Visual Basic for > >Applications, and you can get hired at > >any medium to large company. > > > >Of course, if universities and colleges > >do that, humanities (the well-rounded individual > >human being is king and queen) - that crazy > >religion of schools and universities everywhere - > >will certainly fall victim to the latest booming > >religion - the religion of commerce, > >efficiency, marketability, utilitarianism - > >and colleges and unversities will certainly > >become Trade Schools - which may not be > >a bad thing in the short run - but in the long > >run, who knows? > > > >The god of the "bottom-line" is gaining power > >over universities and colleges, at least in > >the United States it seems, and, like > >the Invisible Hand of economic theory, > >may push Slavists out the door if there > >is no adapting. > > > >[and this way, the beloved philologist > >will still have a home, and purpose]. > > > >-Kenneth > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From renee at ALINGA.COM Sun Jun 4 17:34:22 2000 From: renee at ALINGA.COM (Renee Stillings) Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 13:34:22 -0400 Subject: Russian Studies programs Message-ID: I can't agree more with several of Frank's statements. I have been predicting for years that parallel with the rise of technology is going to be the raise in pay for anyone who can actually write. Market forces have most likely forced technical and business schools to maintain or even increase their focus. Such market forces are not quite so clear in the humanities and the focus is becoming lost. I have often said that I have no regrets over taking an engineering undergrad degree even though I do not work remotely in the field, as it taught a way of thinking. When I meet an engineer, I know the approach (more or less) to any situation, and truthfully, almost all companies like to have an engineer in the room if only to have someone dissect problems in a different way. Humanities need to be recognized in that way also--promoting a way of thinking, which in part contributes to good writing (good writing for practical purposes meaning clearly relating one's thinking). Writing in and of itself needs to be a much more serious focus. One breakthrough could perhaps be allowing all students the option of minor concentrations in completely different areas. Engineers could take a minor in English (great boon for technical writing and marketing departments?) and humanities students could take some technical courses as it really is becoming more and more impossible to avoid technology altogether, no matter how hard you try. Most will not cross over "for fun or exploration" because of the possible drop in GPA when one treads into unfamiliar waters. (I was once told by a study abroad advisor that it was senseless developing study abroad opportunities for engineers because they are far to paranoid about GPA to even consider it. Given the broad generalization that "engineers need to get out more", doesn't that seem a bit silly?) We can always do it later, of courses, as continuing education or just picking up a book, but it would be nice to have the system's blessing even earlier on. > > What I really prize is the employee who can write well. It's not too hard > to find employees, with or without college, who understand the technology, > in spite of their high salary demands. > > It is difficult, however, if not at times seemingly impossible, to find > someone who understands the technology "and" can write well. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frankdp at EROLS.COM Sun Jun 4 22:34:10 2000 From: frankdp at EROLS.COM (Frank Poulin) Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 18:34:10 -0400 Subject: Russian Studies programs Message-ID: Hi All: A number of people asked me to clarify which language I had in mind when I spoke about the frustrating lack of job seekers who write well: I meant English. In a few words, I've had great difficulty finding technical people who can: 1. Write well (in English) 2. Work independently 3. Think creatively And Renee Stillings is correct-- in the technology field during the last few years, those who possess the above skills tend to get large raises, and sometimes more than once per year. Why? Here's an example from my own work: One of my group's roles is to evaluate new technology for a federal agency. A good technical person who writes well and possesses the above qualities can put together a 3 to 6 page whitepaper (which is a documented technical study) on a specific type of new technology in about a day (after spending anywhere from 2 weeks to 3 months working with the technology). However, a technical person who does not possess the above 3 qualities might require more than a week to complete a comparable whitepaper, as long as he or she has significant supervision on my part-- that is, when I have the time. Without supervision on my part, this person will most likely never get the whitepaper done, even though he or she is technically gifted and has already completed the technical portion of the work. I'm in a competitive business. If my group can't get these studies documented, another company will (if they're lucky enough to have someone on staff who is technical and possesses the above talents). In the computer field, the fate of deliverables can mean the gain or loss of significant revenue. Humanities departments should emphasize their roles in developing students' abilities to write well, think creatively, and work independently. This should be your niche, not that of the business school or the engineering school-- why should they be doing this? It's really outside their sphere of expertise. Their expertise is on making profit and developing engineering solutions. If humanities departments would focus on the greatest and most influential works of human creativity, and require students to write well and often, I think the reputation of humanities departments would drastically improve. Slavic Departments are positioned nicely to take advantage of the greatest and most influential works of human creativity. You all should take the lead and let the weaker departments follow later. Thanks, Frank -----Original Message----- From: Frank Poulin To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Date: Saturday, June 03, 2000 5:11 PM Subject: Re: Russian Studies programs >I supervise a team of test and evaluation engineers and technicians as well >as computer systems deployment personnel. Our work requires an >understanding of switch, router, and server technology (I'm sure most >readers have heard of Novell, NT, Cisco and Nortel). These systems are not >that difficult to understand, given 2 to 3 years of good experience. They >are certainly not as difficult as Russian-- even when combined. > >What I really prize is the employee who can write well. It's not too hard >to find employees, with or without college, who understand the technology, >in spite of their high salary demands. > > It is difficult, however, if not at times seemingly impossible, to find >someone who understands the technology "and" can write well. > >Because our work involves a great deal of customer interaction (not only in >developing strategy papers and technical evaluations of new products for the >customer, but also in working with proposal-writing teams in pursuit of new >business-- this stuff is extraordinarily fun by the way), any technical >person who writes well offers our group a big bonus and is often invaluable. > >In my opinion, the humanities might be gaining a reputation outside of the >university as a 4-year long sensitivity-training seminar that sometimes >seems to border on group therapy. Just take a look at the weekly US News >magazine to see what the public reads about the humanities. > >Really, I need people who can write well. I need people who can think for >themselves. Promote Slavic Departments as a place where students do not >just pick up a second language. Promote Slavic Departments as a place where >students learn to write well and develop original ideas. Promote the >"great" and "universal" works--- Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, Pasternak (and add >something about Goethe, Schopenhauer, and Hegel). Teach them about Russian >as well as European history. Require students to write often. And by all >means, avoid this gender and ethnic balkanization that seems to have taken >over some, if not many, humanities departments. Lead other departments by >your example. > >I know the above sounds naive, but if US News and other publications were >praising graduates of humanities departments for strong writing and original >thinking skills and for their knowledge of the great works of human >creativity, (rather than belittling their departments and schools for >wallowing in ethnic and gender-oriented accusations), the reputation of >humanities departments would be much better than it is today. > >Business schools and computer science departments have a lock on the >technology. Their professors know this and their professors are confident >in their mission. Humanities departments "should", and I repeat "should", >have a lock on the development of strong writing skills and original >thinking habits. But they don't! And it's becoming more and more apparent >to those of us on the outside. > >Many on this list are professors. Professors in the humanities need to >reverse this trend. And let me add that the generation that went to school >in the 1950's can't reverse this trend themselves-- they are not superhuman. >I really need people who can write well and think for themselves. It's very >competitive out here. > >All the best, >Frank > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Kenneth E Udut >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Date: Thursday, June 01, 2000 6:36 PM >Subject: Re: Russian Studies programs > > >>[...] >>> There is one skillset widely prized throughout the job marketplace, >>> and that is >>> computer literacy, the ability to sit down at any computer and >>> figure out how >>> to do what you need to do. At a minimum, employers want people who >>> can deal in >>> the various subdivisions of MSOffice: Word, Excel, PowerPoint, and >>> -- as a >>> bonus -- Access. A wide range of applications fans out from this >>> central >>> suite. If we really wanted to make our students work-ready, we'd >>> set up a >>> curriculum which encourages them to use more types of software than >>> just the >>> word processor, without necessarily changing any of the content we >>> touch upon. >> >>This is very true. You can do *many* jobs - >>even jobs that you could care less about, >>getting varying rates of pay, if you learn >>competence in the Microsoft Office suite. >> >>As an added bonus, learn a little macro-making >>and Visual Basic for >>Applications, and you can get hired at >>any medium to large company. >> >>Of course, if universities and colleges >>do that, humanities (the well-rounded individual >>human being is king and queen) - that crazy >>religion of schools and universities everywhere - >>will certainly fall victim to the latest booming >>religion - the religion of commerce, >>efficiency, marketability, utilitarianism - >>and colleges and unversities will certainly >>become Trade Schools - which may not be >>a bad thing in the short run - but in the long >>run, who knows? >> >>The god of the "bottom-line" is gaining power >>over universities and colleges, at least in >>the United States it seems, and, like >>the Invisible Hand of economic theory, >>may push Slavists out the door if there >>is no adapting. >> >>[and this way, the beloved philologist >>will still have a home, and purpose]. >> >>-Kenneth >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From d-powelstock at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Jun 5 14:47:03 2000 From: d-powelstock at UCHICAGO.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 09:47:03 -0500 Subject: Lecturer Position in Serbian/Croatian, University of Chicago Message-ID: I post the following job announcement on behalf of the University of Chicago Slavic Department. Please address all queries regarding this position directly to the Slavic Dept., rather than to me personally. ************************ JOB ANNOUNCEMENT ************************ Serbian/Croatian: Lecturer in Serbian/Croatian, three-year contract, renewal possible but not guaranteed, beginning fall 2000. Native or near-native fluency in Serbian/Croatian and excellent English required. Must be able to teach all levels from beginning to advanced. University degree with concentration in Serbian/Croatian and previous pedagogical experience in the language required. Knowledge of Serbian/Croatian literature and textbook writing experience desirable. Send cover letter and CV to: Serbian/Croatian Search Committee, Slavic Department, University of Chicago, 1130 E. 59th St., Chicago, IL 60637. Hard copy only, envelope must be correctly addressed, e-mail not acceptable. AA/EOE. Deadline for receipt of materials: June 30, 2000. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Mon Jun 5 15:05:33 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:05:33 -0400 Subject: Videos of Russian primary school, 'high school' or university lev el classes? Message-ID: Are there available videotapes of a primary school classroom, 'high school' or university level classroom? Thanks! -Kenneth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Chriwaha at AOL.COM Mon Jun 5 15:45:12 2000 From: Chriwaha at AOL.COM (Chriwaha at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 11:45:12 EDT Subject: lodgings available in Prague Message-ID: My in-laws are looking to sublet their apartments in Prague while they are visiting the U.S. this summer. One is a two-bedroom in Podoli (Prague 4, just south of Vysehrad), available July 14-Aug 24; the other is a two-bedroom in Karlin (Prague 8, just north of the park in Zizkov with the monument to Jan Zizka), available June 8-Sept 10. Both are short walks to the tram, by which one can get to the center in 10-15 min., and slightly longer walks to the metro. If you are interested in subletting one of these apartments--for all or part of the available times indicated--please contact me off-list at HarwoodC at missouri.edu Chris Harwood ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lrc at mrminc.com Mon Jun 5 17:29:31 2000 From: lrc at mrminc.com (LRC staff) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:29:31 EDT Subject: Linguist Position In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wanted: Native English speaker with knowledge of Tajik to assist in editing a Tajik-English dictionary. Degree in area studies or linguistics preferable. Knowledge of Persian and/or Russian a plus. Salary commensurate with abilities. Must work on site in Hyattsville, MD. Fax resume to 301-864-8956 or email to: lrc at mrminc.com. Please put the adressee's name in the subject field. Also, please respond OFF-list. Language Research Center A Division of MRM Inc. http://www.mrminc.com lrc at mrminc.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From slbaehr at VT.EDU Mon Jun 5 18:33:37 2000 From: slbaehr at VT.EDU (Stephen L. Baehr) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 14:33:37 -0400 Subject: Russian Elementary Songs and Games Message-ID: I am forwarding a request that I received from an elementary school teacher for some help. I'd appreciate any help that SEELANGERS could give her. Please respond directly to her off line. Thanks. Steve Baehr >Return-path: >Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 20:11:17 -0700 (PDT) >From: Jean Pacheco >Subject: Russian Elementary Songs and Games >To: slbaehr at vt.edu >X-Originating-IP: [216.224.200.23] > >Hello. I am an elementary Spanish teacher. This summer I have been asked >to teach a course in elmentary Russian to students in grades K-7. I have >never taught Russian before. Do you happen to have any games or songs for >this level that you could e-mail me? Your help would deeply be appreciated. >Thank you. >Sincerely, >Jean L. Pacheco >jpacheco44 at hotmail.com >________________________________________________________________________ >Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > ***************************************** Stephen L. Baehr (NOTE NEW E-MAIL: slbaehr at vt.edu) Professor of Russian Editor, +Slavic and East European Journal+ Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University Blacksburg, VA 24061-0225 Phones: (540) 231-8323 (Direct); 231-9846 (SEEJ Ed. Asst.). FAX: (540)-231-4812 ***************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenakh at RCCD.CC.CA.US Mon Jun 5 20:22:26 2000 From: elenakh at RCCD.CC.CA.US (Elena Kobzeva) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:22:26 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Dear Collegues, Righ now am doing a Program Review for Russian. There was and there is a decine in interest to learn Russian. In our college we try to do our best to keep the Russian progam alive. Is spite of all the efforts we make, we were only able to open Russian 1 last semester(fall 1999) and we could not get enough people for Russian 2. It's very sed. Isn't it? I would like to find out how other colleges and universties deal with the same problem. In your opinion, why students do not study Russian anymore? Any comments, suggestions are welcome. A few years ago there was an articule in N.Y. Times(may be I am not wrong)about this issue. May be somebody still have it. Please can you fax it to me. Please email me off the list. Elena Kobzeva-Herzog tel:(909) 222-8287 fax:(909)2228149 email:elenakh at rccd.cc.ca.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Mon Jun 5 20:28:55 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:28:55 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: <003301bfcf2b$c5cdb780$b30245cc@rccd.cc.ca.us> Message-ID: Hello, My opinion on why students no longer study Russian is simple - Russian is a difficult language, and unattractive to students. In the past, people were probably more likely to study Russian because there was a perceived need for speakers of Russian - a Cold War era thing. But now, there is almost nothing drawing people to Russian. Students will take Spanish, French or German first, or Japanese or Chinese if they're interested in business. And even if students take beginning Russian, they tend not to go on, probably because there are easier options out there. In my experience, the people who stay in Russian these days are the people who develop a passion for the language and can't let it go. Casual students of Russian don't seem to exist beyond the first or second year. I don't know what can be done to remedy the problem. Eliminate cases? :) Kat -- Kat Tancock UVic Language Centre http://web.uvic.ca/langcen tancockk at uvic.ca > From: Elena Kobzeva > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:22:26 -0700 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore > > Dear Collegues, > > Righ now am doing a Program Review for Russian. > There was and there is a decine in interest to learn Russian. > In our college we try to do our best to keep the Russian progam alive. Is > spite of all the efforts we make, we were only able to open Russian 1 last > semester(fall 1999) and we could not get enough people for Russian 2. It's > very sed. Isn't it? I would like to find out how other colleges and > universties deal with the same problem. In your opinion, why students do not > study Russian anymore? Any comments, suggestions are welcome. > A few years ago there was an articule in N.Y. Times(may be I am not > wrong)about this issue. May be somebody still have it. Please can you fax it > to me. > Please email me off the list. > Elena Kobzeva-Herzog > tel:(909) 222-8287 > fax:(909)2228149 > email:elenakh at rccd.cc.ca.us > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenakh at RCCD.CC.CA.US Mon Jun 5 20:41:27 2000 From: elenakh at RCCD.CC.CA.US (Elena Kobzeva) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:41:27 -0700 Subject: Whay students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Please ignore the previous message. The spell checker didn't work.Sorry. Dear Colleagues, Right now I am doing a Program Review for Russian. There was and there is a decline in interest to learn Russian. In our college we try to do our best to keep the Russian program alive. Is spite of all the efforts we make, we were only able to open Russian 1 last semester (fall 1999) and we could not get enough people for Russian 2. It's very sad. Isn't it? I would like to find out how other colleges and universities deal with the same problem. In your opinion, why students do not study Russian anymore? Any comments, suggestions are welcome. A few years ago there was an article in N.Y. Times (may be I am not wrong)about this issue. May be somebody still have it. Please can you fax it to me? Please email me off the list. Elena Kobzeva-Herzog tel:(909) 222-8287 fax:(909)2228149 email:elenakh at rccd.cc.ca.us Elena Kobzeva-Herzog tel:(909) 222-8287 fax:(909) 222-8149 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenakh at RCCD.CC.CA.US Mon Jun 5 20:58:01 2000 From: elenakh at RCCD.CC.CA.US (Elena Kobzeva) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 13:58:01 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore? Message-ID: Please ignore the previous message. The spell checker didn't work.Sorry. Dear Colleagues, Right now I am doing a Program Review for Russian. There was and there is a decline in interest to learn Russian. In our college we try to do our best to keep the Russian program alive. Is spite of all the efforts we make, we were only able to open Russian 1 last semester (fall 1999) and we could not get enough people for Russian 2. It's very sad. Isn't it? I would like to find out how other colleges and universities deal with the same problem. In your opinion, why students do not study Russian anymore? Any comments, suggestions are welcome. A few years ago there was an article in N.Y. Times (may be I am not wrong)about this issue. May be somebody still have it. Please can you fax it to me? Please email me off the list. Elena Kobzeva-Herzog tel:(909) 222-8287 fax:(909)2228149 email:elenakh at rccd.cc.ca.us ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emboyle at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Mon Jun 5 22:12:39 2000 From: emboyle at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (E. Boyle) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:12:39 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Something that contributes to the "unattractiveness" of Russian, if that's what it is, is the good old GPA: many students to not have the time to put in the work required to get an A, or a 4.0 in Russian, and they simply drop it in favor of a "simpler" language. They tell us that they have to keep their GPA up in order to get a good job later. I do not think we need to alter the grammar. We need to change the way we present the language though. No one will become enthralled with anything that's presented as merely so many grammatical structures. *************** Eloise M. Boyle Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Washington Box 353580 Seattle, WA 98195 (206) 543-7580 (office) (425) 483-4130 (home) e-mail: emboyle at u.washington.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Mon Jun 5 22:22:29 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:22:29 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Perhaps an effort should be made to normalize grading scales university wide (if not nationally). An "A" in Mathematics, Physics, Computer Science, Ukrainian, Russian, etc require the same amount of work, and have the same significance, as an "A" in Psychology, History, Sociology, or Spanish. -- Stephen Bobick On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, E. Boyle wrote: > Something that contributes to the "unattractiveness" of Russian, if that's > what it is, is the good old GPA: many students to not have the time to put > in the work required to get an A, or a 4.0 in Russian, and they simply > drop it in favor of a "simpler" language. They tell us that they have to > keep their GPA up in order to get a good job later. > > I do not think we need to alter the grammar. We need to change the way we > present the language though. No one will become enthralled with anything > that's presented as merely so many grammatical structures. > > *************** > Eloise M. Boyle > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Washington > Box 353580 > Seattle, WA 98195 > > (206) 543-7580 (office) > (425) 483-4130 (home) > e-mail: emboyle at u.washington.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Mon Jun 5 22:31:18 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:31:18 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As someone who has a degree in Russian and worked as a secretary in a Russian Department for 11 years, I think I am willing to voice an opinion on the subject. The large influx of Russian immigrants in the 1980's and 1990's flooded the market, depressing wages for translators which were never very good, and the end of the Cold War meant that government jobs were no longer as abundant. Russian as a second language doesn't increase a student's earning power, and with student loans and indebtedness being what they are, prudent young people need to look at the bottom line. Look at Japanese departments. It's a much harder language than Russian, but the enrollments are up. -Martha Sherwood- On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, E. Boyle wrote: > Something that contributes to the "unattractiveness" of Russian, if that's > what it is, is the good old GPA: many students to not have the time to put > in the work required to get an A, or a 4.0 in Russian, and they simply > drop it in favor of a "simpler" language. They tell us that they have to > keep their GPA up in order to get a good job later. > > I do not think we need to alter the grammar. We need to change the way we > present the language though. No one will become enthralled with anything > that's presented as merely so many grammatical structures. > > *************** > Eloise M. Boyle > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Washington > Box 353580 > Seattle, WA 98195 > > (206) 543-7580 (office) > (425) 483-4130 (home) > e-mail: emboyle at u.washington.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Mon Jun 5 22:44:55 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 18:44:55 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, Marta Sherwood-Pike wrote: > Look > at Japanese departments. It's a much harder language than Russian, but the > enrollments are up. -Martha Sherwood- Just curious, but upon what do you base this last claim? As someone who learned four foreign languages as an adult, and who has dabbled in a couple of others, I'd be hard to pressed to say one language is harder to learn than another. Each language offers its own challenges and has its own simpler aspects (from a learning perspective). Why would Japanese be fundamentally more difficult to learn than Russian? And is French really easier to learn than Russian? Sure, the former shares a lot with English, but these similarities only go so far in easing language acquisition. Anyone interested in become proficient, if not fluent, has a lot of work to do in either case. -- Stephen Bobick ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWU.EDU Tue Jun 6 00:56:35 2000 From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:56:35 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Just look at the amount of time on task that one must devote to reach certain proficiency milestones in each language. The State Department has the stats. If memory serves me (and someone correct me if I am off on the figures), 50% of their learners reach ILR S3, R3 (speaking, reading level three - in theory the ILR equivalent of ACTFL Superior, but in fact somewhat less) in Spanish and French after something like 400-500 hours of instruction. The figure for Russian is over 1000 and far more for that in Japanese. I believe that required time on task is a pretty good measure of difficulty. - R. Robin > Just curious, but upon what do you base this last claim? As someone who > learned four foreign languages as an adult, and who has dabbled in a > couple of others, I'd be hard to pressed to say one language is harder to > learn than another. Each language offers its own challenges and has its > own simpler aspects (from a learning perspective). Why would Japanese be > fundamentally more difficult to learn than Russian? And is French really > easier to learn than Russian? Sure, the former shares a lot with English, > but these similarities only go so far in easing language acquisition. > Anyone interested in become proficient, if not fluent, has a lot of work > to do in either case. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Tue Jun 6 01:47:16 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 20:47:16 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: > Just look at the amount of time on task that one must devote to reach certain > proficiency milestones in each language. The State Department has the stats. If > memory serves me (and someone correct me if I am off on the figures), 50% of > their learners reach ILR S3, R3 (speaking, reading level three - in theory the > ILR equivalent of ACTFL Superior, but in fact somewhat less) in Spanish and > French after something like 400-500 hours of instruction. The figure for Russian > is over 1000 and far more for that in Japanese. I believe that required time on > task is a pretty good measure of difficulty. There is yet another aspect of the problem. Universities normally prefer to employ professors of Russian with a research background - those who have published a multitude of long articles in thick journals. And these professors tend to teach exactly what they publish - the intricacies of the Russian grammar, the subtextual style of Platonov's prose, or the structure of Pushkin's verse. This all would be fine if their teaching were consistent with the level of their students' proficiency. In some (if not many) cases they tend to teach ABOUT the language, rather than the language per se. In some universities students just attend lectures on the Russian grammar or phonetics, without actually learning how to use them. This is a hangover from the cold war days when oral skills in Russian were needed mostly by the military and secret service. All the rest were supposed to STUDY Russian rather than learn how to use it. Now that the cold war is over, the need for oral skills in Russian have not emerged. Russian is not a very promising field of business or any other endeavor. All the above has contributed to the decline of Russian. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Tue Jun 6 02:37:50 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 22:37:50 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: > The figure for Russian >is over 1000 [hours] and far more for that in Japanese. By my calculation it means 200 weeks (@ 5 hours/week instruction), which translates into 13.3 semesters (@ 15 weeks per semester), or almost 7 years. Most colleges though teach 3 hours per week. On the other subject: >This all would be fine if their teaching were consistent with the level of >their students' proficiency. In some (if not many) cases they tend to teach >ABOUT the language, rather than the language per se. >In some universities students just attend lectures on the Russian grammar >or >phonetics, without actually learning how to use them. This is a hangover >from the cold war days when oral skills in Russian were needed mostly by >the >military and secret service. All the rest were supposed to STUDY Russian >rather than learn how to use it. The difference between a college and a Berlitz school is that the college should do both. It is part of the higher education or the essence of the study of the humanities to understand things, not just be able to use them (unlike my ability to drive a car without much knowledge of those things under the hood). Take the study of one's native literature, a high school student can decipher the text, a college student is expected to go a step further. The same should be said about a language, any language, be it native or foreign. Remember the guy who was surpised to learn that he speeks in prose? ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From simplify3 at JUNO.COM Tue Jun 6 02:08:29 2000 From: simplify3 at JUNO.COM (Kenneth E Udut) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 22:08:29 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: I think if a professor could get students to become interested in the beauty of the Russian language, not the skeleton, but the skin, the clothing, the makeup, the jewelry (to speak metaphorically), you'll have 'em hooked. I don't know if I'd be able to go back to school to study Russian myself (I'm stuck on my own, even though I live in an area in New Jersey where I should have no trouble finding Slavs of all stripes) -- but if I were in a classroom environment, I'd like to see some things that keep me HUNGRY for the language: Total Physical Response (as well as the Storytelling version later on) Poem recitating - especially rhyming poetry, as well as the more metric types Guest native Russian speakers reading from Dostoyevsky Guest Russian monk or priest and Rabbi and other religions that are common in Russia to give a talk on Russian religious life (are not college students fasctinated by "foreign" looking religions?) Russian dancing and music Russian food Russian costumes I also think that every university library should have a few copies of Pimsleur's Russian course for the students to use -- unorthodox as it may be in its presentation of grammar, I have to say that it really is the only on-your-own Russian language learning method that is working for me in a usable way. I think the labels used for the various grammatical points should be left out for first year students. For me, it was too much too soon in the materials I've worked with, and so, 1 1/2 years after starting to learn Russian in my spare time, I *still* have trouble with very basic things. I think prefixes should be introduced early, though, as well as a steady diet of roots. Getting a feel for these has helped me learn how to puzzle out a word, even if I do not still know its case. I think prefixes and roots (and to some degree, suffixes like "nost'") are something that is intuitive to English speakers, since we have so many prefixes of our own, as well as many roots, but we DON'T have as much in the way of inflections. I think I spent two weeks on a "high" when I started noticing all of these words with "bez" at the beginning - and even though I didn't know what the words meant (because my knowledge of roots is slower than my knowledge of prefixes), I at least knew that it means "without"-something. Give the students tools that can help them figure things out on their own - imperfectly, certainly (for when can anybody really be called fluent? The put-on-a-pedistile "native speaker" doesn't live up to that standard either all of the time). -- but at least some tools. Oh! And definately teach 'em how to write in Russian script right away. That's a fun sense of competence. And another thing -- the Spanish telenovellas ("soap operas") that I see on NTV from time to time (they're currently running "Vdova Blanko" or "La Viuda de Blanco" (or, probably in English, The Widow of Blanko)) - and the Russian used in the voiceover is very-nearly comprehendable to me. I don't always follow what they're saying, but I do know 90% of the words they're using, and the more I watch it, the more that 'chunks' of meaning come across. I would guess that an Intermediate Russian student would probably be able to fully understand it. [now if only I could get transcripts of it!) [Ideally, I'd rather be going to college to study Russian, but $$$ are too high to enroll for a working boy like myself, and Russian doesn't seem to be the kind of course that most colleges would offer a community audit for). -Kenneth -Kenneth On Mon, 5 Jun 2000 15:12:39 -0700 "E. Boyle" writes: [...] > I do not think we need to alter the grammar. We need to change the > way we > present the language though. No one will become enthralled with > anything > that's presented as merely so many grammatical structures. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Tue Jun 6 05:12:48 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 22:12:48 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: <20000605.225253.-418379.3.simplify3@juno.com> Message-ID: A few observations here, based on my experiences a the University of Oregon. (1) Students who are not foreign language, linguistics, or area studies majors do not have time in their schedules for more than one foreign language, and the one they pick is usually the one they studied in high school - Spanish, French, or sometimes German. Our school district teaches Jpananese and Russian, but this is unusual, and the Japanese program is a bit thin, while the Russian program was such that students with three years couldn't go into our university 2nd year program, which wasn't particularly advanced. (2). Putting native speakers without pedagogical training into first and second year classrooms invites disaster. For first year Russian I had a Polish teaching assistant whose English was marginal, who had not a clue as to how to explain Russian grammatical concepts to speakers of English. Fortunately we had a textbook that explained things in terms intelligible to someone who knew Latin, which has a similar case structure. I was one of two in thirty-one who went on to second year. (3). This situation extends to other less commonly taught languages (assuming the University of Oregon is not exceptionally bad among public universities with respect to language teaching). Several years ago I enrolled in Indonesian. The teaching assistants had no idea how to teach foreign languages, and their supposed supervisor did not observe them in the classroom. Half of the small class consisted of Koreans and Japanese, who had already learned a language not closely related to their own (English), and I, fairly proficient in Russian, grasped the concepts of the very different grammar, but the other Americans were clueless. Most American students emerge from high schools without the mental skills to learn difficult foreign languages, chiefly because they are not exposed to a bilingual environment in their childhood. (4). I do not think I would have learned Russian, had I not had two Russian teachers, one an emigre and one an exchange professor, who had been trained in Russian pedagogical institutes to teach foreign languages, the first to teach English, the second to teach Russian to foreign students of various nationalities. (5). Russian literature especially poetry is beautiful. Can one, however, appreciate Russian poetry if one does not appreciate English poetry? If one is ignorant of Yeats, can the best understanding of each word, inflexion, etc. of Gumiliev convey the essence of the work? (I picked two contemporaries both of whom are evocative for me, though their poems are rather different). -Martha Sherwood- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at SPRINT.CA Tue Jun 6 05:30:12 2000 From: colkitto at SPRINT.CA (Robert Orr) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 01:30:12 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Latin and Greek (though, alas, not nearly enough of the latter) are still taught in schools. One of the arguments advanced in their favour is that their study teaches people to think. The same argument could be made for Russian. Robert Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Subhash.Jaireth at AGSO.GOV.AU Tue Jun 6 05:28:27 2000 From: Subhash.Jaireth at AGSO.GOV.AU (Subhash.Jaireth at AGSO.GOV.AU) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:28:27 +1000 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Friends, A few years ago, in the online journal Australian Humanities Review there was an interesting discussion on the same question. Please see the following if interested: http://www.lib.latrobe.edu.au/AHR/emuse/home.html Best wishes Subhash -----Original Message----- From: colkitto at SPRINT.CA [mailto:colkitto at SPRINT.CA] Sent: Tuesday, 6 June 2000 15:30 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: Why students do not study Russian anymore Latin and Greek (though, alas, not nearly enough of the latter) are still taught in schools. One of the arguments advanced in their favour is that their study teaches people to think. The same argument could be made for Russian. Robert Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Tue Jun 6 05:37:24 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 22:37:24 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Generally the difficulty of language acquisition after childhood is related to how closely it is related linguistically to your own. Speaking English, Spanish, and German when I entered college, I readily learned to read French, Dutch, and Italian for research purposes, though I had the frustrating experience in Paris of being able to more or less understand what Frenchmen were saying to me, while being utterly unable to communicate with them. Non-Roman character sets such as cyrillic present a problem with reading and writing - my daughter is currently struggling with Thai, and of course Japanese Kanji represent a particularly difficult case. Really natural speaking in a foreign language also involves acculturalization. There are grammatical concepts in Indonesian which it is very difficult for a westerner to conceptualize. Language reflects one's view of the world, and one's view of the world is reflected in language. A translator of poetry must consider this; a translator of business correspondence need not, for the culture is uniform. -Martha Sherwood- On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, VShell wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, Marta Sherwood-Pike wrote: > > Look > > at Japanese departments. It's a much harder language than Russian, but the > > enrollments are up. -Martha Sherwood- > > Just curious, but upon what do you base this last claim? As someone who > learned four foreign languages as an adult, and who has dabbled in a > couple of others, I'd be hard to pressed to say one language is harder to > learn than another. Each language offers its own challenges and has its > own simpler aspects (from a learning perspective). Why would Japanese be > fundamentally more difficult to learn than Russian? And is French really > easier to learn than Russian? Sure, the former shares a lot with English, > but these similarities only go so far in easing language acquisition. > Anyone interested in become proficient, if not fluent, has a lot of work > to do in either case. > > -- Stephen Bobick > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Tue Jun 6 06:47:19 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (Stephen J. Bobick) Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 23:47:19 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Marta Sherwood-Pike wrote: > Half of the small class consisted of Koreans and Japanese, > who had already learned a language not closely related to their own > (English), and I, fairly proficient in Russian, grasped the concepts of > the very different grammar, but the other Americans were clueless. Most > American students emerge from high schools without the mental skills to > learn difficult foreign languages, chiefly because they are not exposed to > a bilingual environment in their childhood. In addition, I would argue that a major difficulty is that many do not have a firm grasp of English grammar. -- Stephen Bobick ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pogacar at BGNET.BGSU.EDU Tue Jun 6 13:39:26 2000 From: pogacar at BGNET.BGSU.EDU (Timothy Pogacar) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 08:39:26 -0500 Subject: Why =?iso-8859-1?Q?students=8A?= Message-ID: In case no one has noticed, enrollments have been dropping in virtually all languages but Spanish. (A Boston columnist astutely observed last year that Americans consider it a domestic language, and "if Mexicans can learn it Š" [As an undergrad. Spanish major I disagree.]) The humanities in general are on a three-decade slide. Instrumental reasons for becoming acquainted with languages and some heritage enrollments might help around the edges, but the humanities' plight in U.S. is far more serious. --Tim Pogacar ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dwkaiser at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Tue Jun 6 13:18:51 2000 From: dwkaiser at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (David Kaiser) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 08:18:51 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My observations regarding undergrads' choice of language study, based on lengthy discussions, are as follows Why Spanish instead of Russian: 1> Russian's not as practical as other choices. In the US, outside of very specific urban areas or very specific career choices, knowledge of Russian isn't going to help you get a job or get around, especially compared to Spanish and to a much lesser extent, French, German and Japanese. 2> Finding practice is much easier for Spanish than for Russian (or anything else, for that matter). Language is more fun and develops more quickly when you can use it regularly. In most communities, it is relatively easy to find speakers of Spanish and TV/Radio that broadcasts in Spanish. It's less common to find ways to use Russian, even in a big city with a big Russian population. 3> Russian just isn't as sexy as it used to be, now that the Russians are neither The Enemy (Cold War) nor Our New Friend (Perestroika). I think many people just see Russia as lawless and corrupt and not worth the trouble. (Of course, most of us who speak Russian would surely agree that it IS worth the trouble) Why students do take Russian 1> They already know and love Russian literature or culture and want to know more or read it in the original. 2> It's still exotic, compared to Spanish or French or German. 3> The challenge, they know it's more difficult, that's why they like it. 4> Family/heritage/(easy A, for immigrants or their children) 5> Scholarly research. There is some great stuff written in Russian about math, linguistics, physics, history, psychology, and many other fields, not all of which has been translated into English. That's my 2 cents, I hope someone somewhere finds it useful. I have to say, though, that at the three schools where I have pursued Russian (Georgetown, Arizona and Chicago), there did not seem to be a shortage of students, relative to the number of classes offered. Dave Kaiser University of Chicago At 01:28 PM 6/5/00 -0700, you wrote: >Hello, > >My opinion on why students no longer study Russian is simple - Russian is a >difficult language, and unattractive to students. In the past, people were >probably more likely to study Russian because there was a perceived need for >speakers of Russian - a Cold War era thing. But now, there is almost nothing >drawing people to Russian. Students will take Spanish, French or German >first, or Japanese or Chinese if they're interested in business. And even if >students take beginning Russian, they tend not to go on, probably because >there are easier options out there. In my experience, the people who stay in >Russian these days are the people who develop a passion for the language and >can't let it go. Casual students of Russian don't seem to exist beyond the >first or second year. > "A shared purpose did not claim my identity. On the contrary, it enlarged my sense of myself." Senator John McCain ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Tue Jun 6 13:25:35 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:25:35 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Response below: |From: David Kaiser [mailto:dwkaiser at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU] |Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 9:19 AM |Subject: Re: Why students do not study Russian anymore | | |[...] | |5> Scholarly research. There is some great stuff written in Russian about |math, linguistics, physics, history, psychology, and many other fields, not |all of which has been translated into English. | This is closest to one of the big reasons why I am studying Russian. There is a lot of material available in Russian which has not been translated into English. In my area of interest, it is religious publications, which slowly trickle their way into English translations, but meanwhile, are growing musty on monastery shelves. The area of Russian scientific study of the mind and memory is another area that fasctinates me, and that I'm aware that there is a lot of material out there, that I'd like to be able to read and understand. Also, that Russian scientific interests are quite similar helps a lot as well --- if English language publications and Russian language publications in scientific literature were combined, there would be a heck of a corpus of knowledge available! It's like hidden nuggets of treasure, hiding behind the obscuring face of Cyrillic and all of those 'hush' sounds. To me, this is exciting. -Kenneth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hokanson at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Tue Jun 6 14:31:39 2000 From: hokanson at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (katya hokanson) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 07:31:39 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: <01JQ9AEFYPE88ZDXS6@OREGON.UOREGON.EDU> Message-ID: In regard to the following comment: >Just look at the amount of time on task that one must devote to reach certain >proficiency milestones in each language. The State Department has the >stats. If >memory serves me (and someone correct me if I am off on the figures), 50% of >their learners reach ILR S3, R3 (speaking, reading level three - in theory the >ILR equivalent of ACTFL Superior, but in fact somewhat less) in Spanish and >French after something like 400-500 hours of instruction. The figure for >Russian >is over 1000 and far more for that in Japanese. I believe that required >time on >task is a pretty good measure of difficulty. I have specialized in Russian literature and also spent about two years learning Japanese (and one living in Japan) because I married a specialist of Japanese literature. I personally found Japanese to be the hardest language I had ever studied, at least from the point of view of starting out as a beginner. Furthermore, learning to speak Japanese is difficult enough; learning to read and write at a high level is quite time-consuming. Most Japanese cannot properly read the newspaper until they are in high school. The amount of time and energy needed to master the number of characters necessary to read and write at an educated level is enormous. For non-native learners of Japanese, this task can be very lengthy and it tends to take people a very long time to get a Ph.D. in Japanese literature, for example. Nonetheless, as Martha and others have pointed out, Japanese has much higher enrollments than Russian. I also believe it has everything to do with economics and, for want of a better word, fashion. And in the "fashion" department (and probably also economics), Chinese may even be edging out Japanese. I agree also with those of you who have said that better teaching will help -- certainly. But I also realize that I began studying Russian in 1981, when many college students (as I was at the time) were very concerned about nuclear war and fascinated by the "Evil Empire." That atmosphere, as we all know, has changed tremendously, and the focus is now on other countries and other issues. Katya Hokanson Comparative Literature, Univ. of Oregon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Tue Jun 6 14:57:36 2000 From: jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Jolanta M. Davis) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:57:36 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Hi from Moscow! (fwd) Message-ID: Please contact the sender directly if you are interested in the offer. >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2000 07:17:39 +0400 >From: Alexander >To: aaass at hcs.harvard.edu >Subject: Hi from Moscow! > >Dear AAASS team, > >I read about American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies >program in Internet. > >I would like to receive a person, who speaks English >fluently to live as a guest of our family for a long >(or short) time. >We had got some times a foreign men in our flat for >a brief visits already. > >My family are living in the flat in downtown Moscow City, Russia. >That is Alexander, I am 50. My wife Tanya - 46 y.o., >and my daughter Lena - 16 y.o. > My occupation was selling different PC programs for >accountants & lawyers. > Tanya is good a cook and housewife. > Lena finished the ten grade of school. > >In Moscow we can offer: >- pick up in the airport, >- a small bedroom, with all necessary furniture, in my flat, >- bed & clean bed-clothes, >- bath and shower, >- Russian home made food, >- with pleasure show any sightseeings of Moscow, >- necessary help in purchase, >and traditional Russian hospitality. > > > Feel free to ask me any questions and > e-mail as soon as you able. > > Sincerely yours, > Alexander Ostankov > > @~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@ > ! Better a new friend than an old foe. ! > @~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~@ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU Tue Jun 6 15:00:31 2000 From: sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU (Sibelan Forrester) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:00:31 -0400 Subject: Russian enrollments at the university In-Reply-To: <97A32872DFFED211A62E0008C79168A4FAE78E@kenmsg03b.us.schp.com> Message-ID: Dear friends and colleagues, Obviously, Russian enrollments during the Cold War years were artificially inflated from both directions on the ideological spectrum: there were people who knew they could get a good job with the US military or intelligence, and there were other people (whose hair was longer and whose shoes were not so shiny) who wanted to save the world through greater cultural understanding, or else to shock their parents by having truck with Communists. And then in the middle were the people who were genuinely interested in the language for some reason, who had read Dostoevsky in translation or had a meaningful family connection or just loved the structures of Russian. In my experience of teaching at that time, it was the "middle" students who were the most fun to teach anyway. Now, of course, it's mostly only the middle that is left -- they're largely self-selected into Russian, and on the whole more gifted in general than the students who don't choose to study Russian. So there. I'd like to make a couple of comments on the good points earlier posts have made. First, to pick up something that many people have said on SEELANGS: if we want a healthy range of students of Russian entering college and university, we have to support the work of teachers of Russian in the secondary schools. Some of my best students lately have come from Amherst or Baltimore -- thank you, thank you, thank you for your good work with them! If our local school districts don't offer Russian, there are still ways to contact students: encourage those of our students who are interested in teaching to volunteer in the brief introductory programs elementary schools sometimes offer before or after school, or schlep over with some colorful souvenirs for the middle school festival on world cultures, etc. If your institution's policies allow, let a home-schooler audit your language classes -- she might wind up takine Russian in college, even if it's not your college. If you have kids in school, use some of your copious free time to attend a few PTA meetings and let them know that a unit on Russia would be a great benefit in the social studies curriculum. If we just sit in our ivory towers and do nothing to spread our own knowledge and enthusiasm, it's clear who's to blame for that. If you're too busy to generate your own materials, ask colleagues in AATSEEL or ACTFL for advice. We can't and we shouldn't cut down on presenting grammatical rules and structure. Just as we don't expect students in college-level physics classes to learn the laws from empirical observation of the world (kettles, baseballs) the way a two-year-old does, but lead them through guided experiences in the laboratory, we have to present the rules that our students would we hope find out themselves if they could go to Russia and live for five years. They simply don't have the time to approach it in a fully "natural" way. What's more, many of those students in the "middle" that I mentioned above really like those rules: they tend to be good at physics, math, linguistics and music as well as language, and it's the grammar, if it's presented in a way that's not stultifying, that keeps them coming to class. Obviously it shouldn't be a dry presentation of the grammar (they can get that themselves from the book), and a lively conversational and cultural component is essential -- but (again, to crib from an earlier post) they just don't have as much knowledge of Russian going into it as English gives them for most of the Western European languages, so it's just going to be more difficult, or take more of an investment of time and effort. Finally, solutions to our problems with Russian enrollments are not going to be monolithic (the way the Cold War enrollment bonanza was); they're going to depend on the character of the institutions where we teach and on what each of us has to offer to students. Some places (big institutions with strong professional schools?) will benefit from propagandizing the benefits of Russian as a tool for refining writing and analysis and gaining, back-handedly, the kind of command of English grammar that lets one author a complicated technical paper in good time and with maximum clarity. Or we'll create large and popular courses on "sexy" topics that will bring our departments' existence to the attention of students who wouldn't know about them otherwise, and will cushion the smaller advanced enrollments with lots of warm bodies at that introductory level. At some institutions, the very difficulty of Russian is a sort of cachet (at least, for students in Honors programs and the like). We need to make sure that students aren't told by their advisors to avoid foreign language study (because it takes too long or "spends" too many credits), and that our own propaganda flyers and posters are hanging alongside the history department's or included in the enrollment packets when new students arrive on campus. I'd like to take issue for a moment with the presentation of Humanuties departments in some media venues: trashing Humanist scholars for wallowing in ethnic and gender politics sounds like a clear example of backlash against scholarly diversity, and one that comes from a pretty conservative agenda. No one would chase away a student who wanted to learn Russian in order to go there and sell junk bonds (or whatever), and we all know that what we teach has plenty of tangible, job-worthy benefits to our students. But in some places the best-drawing courses in Russian programs are in "stigmatized" areas such as queer studies or gender studies (which I'd say are hardly taking over Russian programs in any case, though there's a lot more than there used to be, thank the Goddess). In other words -- the participation of some Slavists in current scholarly developments is not going to be a deterrent to students, unless the students are going to take some magazine's opinion as a guiding factor. We all have a lot to learn from other people's experiences and strategies. Best regards to everyone, Sibelan Sibelan Forrester Swarthmore College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wils0141 at AMETHYST.TC.UMN.EDU Tue Jun 6 15:05:11 2000 From: wils0141 at AMETHYST.TC.UMN.EDU (Cheri C Wilson) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:05:11 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, Marta Sherwood-Pike wrote: > Most American students emerge from high schools without the mental > skills to learn difficult foreign languages, chiefly because they are > not exposed to a bilingual environment in their childhood. Marta, I would have to agree with you on this one. It appears that the trend nowadays is to start language training early, such as in Montessori schools, pre-K programs, etc. It appears that the language usually taught at that stage is Spanish. I am hoping to demonstrate this point through my personal story, which I hope no one will mind. I started studying French in the 6th grade and continued it through my freshman year of college. I also studied Spanish for three years in high school. My high school offered Russian, which I wanted to take my senior year; but, the guidance counselors said no because I was already taking two other languages (as if being multilingual is a bad thing). I was the only student in my high school taking two languages. I started taking Russian my 2nd year of college and was immediately fascinated by how little I knew about the geographical area in general. Next, I started taking literature, culture, history, politics, etc and then changed my major to Slavic and East European Studies. I transferred schools and had the opportunity to intern for a semester in a think tank. I also spent the spring semester of my final year in Russia where I lived in 4 different cities--Nizhnii Novgorod, Moscow, Chelyabinsk, and St. Petersburg. I received a B.A. in Russian language and literature (with a broader focus on Russian Area Studies, although the University did not have an official program). I continued on and received the M.A. in Russian Area Studies. Initially, my plan was to receive the M.A. and then go on to law school, so that I work specifically with Russia. My advisor convinced me to apply to the Ph.D. program in History, so here I am a Ph.D. candidate in Russian history. The wonderful thing is that I have been able to combine my passion for Russian, history, and law into my area of specialization, Russian legal history. Believe it or not, I still remember much of my French and Spanish from junior high and high school and use both languages whenever I have the opportunity as well as for research. I also managed to pick up a reading knowledge of German on the side for good measure. Add to the mix that I happen to be black (not African-American please); then one really has to ask how did I get interested in all of the different languages when I don't have any of those ethnicities in my background? This leads to a question that I would like to pose to the list. How does one get minority students interested in foreign languages, specifically Slavic languages? I ask because no one had to use the old Pushkin trick to try to hook me in. But, then again, I don't think that you have to be a particularly ethnicity to study the history or language of a certain ethnicity. Just my $.02 kopecks, Cheri C. Wilson Cheri C. Wilson Ph.D. candidate, Russian history Teaching Fellow Loyola College in Maryland Department of History 4501 N. Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21210-2699 Office telephone: (410) 617-2017 Fax: (410) 617-2832 E-mail: CWilson3 at loyola.edu http://www.evergreen.loyola.edu/~CWilson3/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wils0141 at AMETHYST.TC.UMN.EDU Tue Jun 6 15:11:52 2000 From: wils0141 at AMETHYST.TC.UMN.EDU (Cheri C Wilson) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:11:52 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: <393C9E77.60DE8FC7@accessone.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, Stephen J. Bobick wrote: > In addition, I would argue that a major difficulty is that many do not > have a firm grasp of English grammar. > > -- Stephen Bobick I agree! It is very difficult to teach a language (any language) to native English speakers when they have a poor grasp of English grammar. I have been wondering what students are now being taught about grammar in elementary and secondary schools. When I was an elementary and secondary school student in the mid-late 70s through the late 80s, we at least were required to sentence diagramming so that we would know how the various parts of speech were used, etc. --Cheri C. Wilson Cheri C. Wilson Ph.D. candidate, Russian history Teaching Fellow Loyola College in Maryland Department of History 4501 N. Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21210-2699 Office telephone: (410) 617-2017 Fax: (410) 617-2832 E-mail: CWilson3 at loyola.edu http://www.evergreen.loyola.edu/~CWilson3/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Tue Jun 6 15:32:26 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:32:26 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Love of languages and complexity and patterns for one thing - another hook may be religious. Only reason I say religious, is that I know from online, three Readers in the US in the Russian Orthodox Church that are black. One, Reader Michael Bishop, is always being chided by his friends, not only for his choice of religion, but also, "Why are you learning Russian? That's a white man's language!" There *could* be an advertising campaign (but one would have to be careful in wording and any construed implications) - that points out that you *don't* have to study only your own cultural background... perhaps something that emphasises "bucking the trend". [much in the same way men will take women's studies] -Kenneth |[...] | |This leads to a question that I would like to pose to the list. How does |one get minority students interested in foreign languages, specifically |Slavic languages? I ask because no one had to use the old Pushkin trick |to try to hook me in. But, then again, I don't think that you have to be |a particularly ethnicity to study the history or language of a certain |ethnicity. | |Just my $.02 kopecks, |Cheri C. Wilson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Tue Jun 6 15:30:41 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:30:41 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: > > I have specialized in Russian literature and also spent about two years > learning Japanese (and one living in Japan) because I married a specialist > of Japanese literature. I personally found Japanese to be the hardest > language I had ever studied, at least from the point of view of starting > out as a beginner. Furthermore, learning to speak Japanese is difficult > enough; learning to read and write at a high level is quite time-consuming. > Most Japanese cannot properly read the newspaper until they are in high > school. The amount of time and energy needed to master the number of > characters necessary to read and write at an educated level is enormous. > For non-native learners of Japanese, this task can be very lengthy and it > tends to take people a very long time to get a Ph.D. in Japanese > literature, for example. Nonetheless, as Martha and others have pointed > out, Japanese has much higher enrollments than Russian. I also believe it > has everything to do with economics and, for want of a better word, > fashion. And in the "fashion" department (and probably also economics), > Chinese may even be edging out Japanese. Exactly. I used to teach US military translators, whose first language was Russian and they had to have yet another language. Their main concern was Arabic and Korean. Those who had gone through Russian and Arabic or Korean would tell their peers: "stop whining about Russian. When you start Arabic, you will see that Russian was a breeze". I happened to learn and speak some Arabic when I worked in Africa. It was an eye opener. We can know Spanish, French, Russian and Polish and we may still not realize that we are locked in the framework of our Indo-Europeism. We don't realize how a non-Indo-European language is different from ANY of Indo-European ones. Spanish, Russian and French would seem like cousins, if not brothers. The whole grammatical structure, the whole system and philosophy of Arabic is entirely different. Word formation, semantics, gender, number - all these are present, but entirely different. Thinking in Arabic is like seeing the world from an entirely different perspective. Currently I am working on an interesting project: Belarussian and Taiwanese students were writing essays toward their TOEFL examination and e-mailing them to us. The format was the same, and the requirements were the same. The language was English. But boy, what a difference! The Belarussian essays may have grammar mistakes: some more, some less. But the word order, the logic of composition, the underlying semantic structures are very close to those of a native English speaker. Not with Taiwanese. They see the world somewhat differently, they see different aspects of things, they pay attention to what we normally would not. Their sentence structures are different, the way they start and finish their essays are different. And of course, the nature of errors is different - I insist this is the influence of their native Mandarin which is a long way from English. Notice how long it takes to an Oriental adult student to learn English when they come to the USA at the age of 18 +. It is much easier for a Russian, Pole or Bulgarian to learn English in the same conditions. Similarly, for an English native speaker to learn Indo-European languages would be much easier than non-Indo-European ones. So, yes, there are "difficult" and " easy" languages. And Russian, of course, can be more difficult than Spanish for an English speaker, but way, way easier than Japanese or Korean. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wils0141 at AMETHYST.TC.UMN.EDU Tue Jun 6 15:39:52 2000 From: wils0141 at AMETHYST.TC.UMN.EDU (Cheri C Wilson) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:39:52 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: <97A32872DFFED211A62E0008C79168A4FAE793@kenmsg03b.us.schp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Udut, Kenneth wrote: > Only reason I say religious, is that > I know from online, three Readers in the US in the > Russian Orthodox Church that are black. Interesting point! > One, Reader Michael Bishop, is always being > chided by his friends, not only for his choice > of religion, but also, "Why are you learning > Russian? That's a white man's language!" That sounds familiar! > There *could* be an advertising campaign > (but one would have to be careful in wording > and any construed implications) - that points > out that you *don't* have to study only your > own cultural background... perhaps > something that emphasises "bucking the trend". Agreed, but the ignorance flows both ways, whether it comes from blacks who think one has "sold out" or from white colleagues who in an effort to be friendly make really inane comments (unknowingly or not), such as, "I'm sure you give a lecture on Pushkin, right?" and others too numerous to mention. > [much in the same way men will take women's > studies] Agreed! --Cheri Cheri C. Wilson Ph.D. candidate, Russian history Teaching Fellow Loyola College in Maryland Department of History 4501 N. Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21210-2699 Office telephone: (410) 617-2017 Fax: (410) 617-2832 E-mail: CWilson3 at loyola.edu http://www.evergreen.loyola.edu/~CWilson3/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Tue Jun 6 15:44:59 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:44:59 -0400 Subject: Generic Grammar Course? (was RE: Why students do not study Russia n anymore) Message-ID: I wonder: Do any colleges/universities offer a course in plain ol' grammar? That is - some kind of course that brings together all *known* possibilities of grammar 'styles' and gives examples, definitions, explanations, etc? For example: this hypothetical course, without teaching any *specific* language, would rather teach whatever the max # of known cases are - I think it's, what - 8 in Indo-european languages, and something like 15 in the Finnish one? [I forget], and what they're all about. It would teach all the different potential known genders - hopefully erasing once and for all the "Why male and female and neuter distinctions?" question... It would teach the various potential word orders that are known. And examples of all of these things abound. It could use extremely literal English translations since it is not teaching another language, but rather using examples from other languages to help teach the structures of language. THEN - when time comes to learn Russian, the new Russian student will at least be able to say to him/herself, "Well, there *are* six cases in Russian (sometimes 7 or an occasional 8), but there at least isn't the bewildering array of time-tenses - just the present, past imperfect and future imperfect, past perfect and future perfect..." Then, it won't be so darned bewildering to find that "Yes, word order in Russian is freer than in English, but yes, there are still some commonly used conventions (such as 'where to put new information'). Just a thought. -Kenneth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Tue Jun 6 16:00:58 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 09:00:58 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: <005101bfcf59$24f0c0e0$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: Hello, This is a good point. Russian departments often don't seem to be able to keep the students they get in the first place! One thing I have seen in language departments at our university (Hispanic and Italian studies in particular) is a trend towards hiring language instructors specifically to teach lower level language courses. These instructors are hired for their teaching ability and are freed from the requisite research that full professors seem to occupy so much time with. And they are great teachers! Having taken a plethora of first-year languages, I would say that my Spanish and Italian classes were the most fun of all of them! And they definitely keep their students - the enrollment in Spanish has been increasing consistently. I think they're up to 8 or 9 sections now, and, unfortunately, had to up their student limit to 35 students per class. And this is Canada, not the US - we tend to learn French in high school here, not Spanish. I would suggest that this is a good way to keep those students you get in first year, and to attract others, even by word of mouth - good, fun teachers in the lower levels. This doesn't mean leaving out grammar, but it may mean teaching them some pop music once in awhile. :) Kat -- Kat Tancock UVic Language Centre http://web.uvic.ca/langcen tancockk at uvic.ca > There is yet another aspect of the problem. Universities normally prefer to > employ professors of Russian with a research background - those who have > published a multitude of long articles in thick journals. And these > professors tend to teach exactly what they publish - the intricacies of the > Russian grammar, the subtextual style of Platonov's prose, or the structure > of Pushkin's verse. > This all would be fine if their teaching were consistent with the level of > their students' proficiency. In some (if not many) cases they tend to teach > ABOUT the language, rather than the language per se. > In some universities students just attend lectures on the Russian grammar or > phonetics, without actually learning how to use them. This is a hangover > from the cold war days when oral skills in Russian were needed mostly by the > military and secret service. All the rest were supposed to STUDY Russian > rather than learn how to use it. > > Now that the cold war is over, the need for oral skills in Russian have not > emerged. Russian is not a very promising field of business or any other > endeavor. > All the above has contributed to the decline of Russian. > > With compliments, > > Pavel (Paul) Samsonov > EDAD, College of Education, > Texas A&M University > tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) > (409) 862-9152 (home) > fax (409) 862-4347 > e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vessela at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Tue Jun 6 15:57:55 2000 From: vessela at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Vessela S. Warner) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 08:57:55 -0700 Subject: address Message-ID: Dear Listfolks, I am trying to get in touch with Edward J. Czerwinski, the acknowledged translator and author of books on Polish and East European literature and theater Could anyone help? Sincerely Vessela Warner University of Washington ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Tue Jun 6 17:18:42 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:18:42 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: >Agreed, but the ignorance flows both ways, whether it comes from blacks >who think one has "sold out" or from white colleagues who in an effort to >be friendly make really inane comments (unknowingly or not), such >as, "I'm sure you give a lecture on Pushkin, right?" and others too >numerous to mention. That's a serious oversight on the part of those colleagues since in American racial system Pushkin was a Black Russian poet (some of my students completely flipped a few years ago: "So, Pushkin was Black?"). ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Tue Jun 6 17:18:44 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:18:44 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Reading Cheri Wilson's story, I immediately wonder if the study of *any* foreign language from a young age, in general, will make learning subsequent languages as an adult easier. As such, it might not be a bad thing for Slavists to support education in Spanish or French at the preschool and primary school levels, so they have a pool of better-prepared students in secondary school and beyond, from which to draw "converts" (or at least those wishing to study 2 foreign languages simultaneously)? -- Stephen Bobick On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Cheri C Wilson wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, Marta Sherwood-Pike wrote: > > > Most American students emerge from high schools without the mental > > skills to learn difficult foreign languages, chiefly because they are > > not exposed to a bilingual environment in their childhood. > > Marta, > > I would have to agree with you on this one. It appears that the trend > nowadays is to start language training early, such as in Montessori > schools, pre-K programs, etc. It appears that the language usually taught > at that stage is Spanish. > > I am hoping to demonstrate this point through my personal story, which I > hope no one will mind. > > I started studying French in the 6th grade and continued it through my > freshman year of college. I also studied Spanish for three years in high > school. My high school offered Russian, which I wanted to take my senior > year; but, the guidance counselors said no because I was already taking > two other languages (as if being multilingual is a bad thing). I was the > only student in my high school taking two languages. > > I started taking Russian my 2nd year of college and was immediately > fascinated by how little I knew about the geographical area in > general. Next, I started taking literature, culture, history, politics, > etc and then changed my major to Slavic and East European Studies. > > I transferred schools and had the opportunity to intern for a semester in > a think tank. I also spent the spring semester of my final year in Russia > where I lived in 4 different cities--Nizhnii Novgorod, Moscow, > Chelyabinsk, and St. Petersburg. I received a B.A. in Russian language > and literature (with a broader focus on Russian Area Studies, although the > University did not have an official program). I continued on and > received the M.A. in Russian Area Studies. Initially, my plan was to > receive the M.A. and then go on to law school, so that I work specifically > with Russia. My advisor convinced me to apply to the Ph.D. program in > History, so here I am a Ph.D. candidate in Russian history. The wonderful > thing is that I have been able to combine my passion for Russian, history, > and law into my area of specialization, Russian legal history. > > Believe it or not, I still remember much of my French and Spanish from > junior high and high school and use both languages whenever I have the > opportunity as well as for research. I also managed to pick up a reading > knowledge of German on the side for good measure. > > Add to the mix that I happen to be black (not African-American please); > then one really has to ask how did I get interested in all of the > different languages when I don't have any of those ethnicities in my > background? > > This leads to a question that I would like to pose to the list. How does > one get minority students interested in foreign languages, specifically > Slavic languages? I ask because no one had to use the old Pushkin trick > to try to hook me in. But, then again, I don't think that you have to be > a particularly ethnicity to study the history or language of a certain > ethnicity. > > Just my $.02 kopecks, > > Cheri C. Wilson > > Cheri C. Wilson > Ph.D. candidate, Russian history > Teaching Fellow > Loyola College in Maryland > Department of History > 4501 N. Charles Street > Baltimore, MD 21210-2699 > Office telephone: (410) 617-2017 > Fax: (410) 617-2832 > E-mail: CWilson3 at loyola.edu > http://www.evergreen.loyola.edu/~CWilson3/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Tue Jun 6 17:22:19 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 13:22:19 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Cheri C Wilson wrote: > I agree! It is very difficult to teach a language (any language) to > native English speakers when they have a poor grasp of English grammar. I > have been wondering what students are now being taught about grammar in > elementary and secondary schools. When I was an elementary and secondary > school student in the mid-late 70s through the late 80s, we at least were > required to sentence diagramming so that we would know how the various > parts of speech were used, etc. I am a bit embarassed to admit that although there was a fair amount of grammar taught at my junior and senior high schools (very good public schools, BTW), little of it "stuck". It was not until I studied Russian, that I finally understood English Grammar. I have found this knowledge invaluable in picking up subsequent languages. -- Stephen Bobick ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From douglas at SPEAKEASY.ORG Tue Jun 6 17:37:03 2000 From: douglas at SPEAKEASY.ORG (Lance Taylor) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:37:03 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, VShell wrote: > I am a bit embarassed to admit that although there was a fair amount of > grammar taught at my junior and senior high schools (very good public > schools, BTW), little of it "stuck". It was not until I studied Russian, > that I finally understood English Grammar. I have found this knowledge > invaluable in picking up subsequent languages. Part of the problem I've encountered with explaining Russian grammar to native English speakers is that the parts of speech English speakers are taught aren't the parts of speech someone who speaks an inflected language are taught. While an English speaker can identify the verb, noun, adjective, interjection, etc. (thanks to Schoolhouse Rock, I'm sure), we are almost never taught according to the so-called "standard" pattern of "nominative-genitive-dative-accusative"; we learn "direct object" and "indirect object," but even those don't prepare a student for instrumental - heck, in English, "with" is a preposition. -- "Sometimes I feel like I'm seeing it all at once ... it's too much; my heart fills up like a balloon that's about to burst. And then I remember to relax and stop trying to hold onto it. And then it flows through me like rain and I can't feel anything but gratitude for every single moment of my stupid little life." -- Lester Burnham, "American Beauty" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wladzia at NETAGE.BG Tue Jun 6 15:28:33 2000 From: wladzia at NETAGE.BG (Wladzimier Katkowski) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:28:33 +0300 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: > I agree! It is very difficult to teach a language (any language) to > native English speakers when they have a poor grasp of English grammar. What grammar?? ;) Just want to point out that English has extremely simple grammar. Of all the languages I know (English, German and 4 Slavic ones) English has by far the most simple structure. That's why native speakers have a huuuge problem with changing endings whether it happens to nouns in different cases or to verbs in different tenses or to adjectives, etc, etc... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wladzia at NETAGE.BG Tue Jun 6 12:19:13 2000 From: wladzia at NETAGE.BG (Wladzimier Katkowski) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:19:13 +0300 Subject: a new bookstore Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, For your future reference there is a web-based selection of books about the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and generally the region (Lithuania, Belarus, Poland, Ukraine) from Amazon. It's still under construction, but you may stop by and submit your email to receive an announcement when this site is complete, in case you get interested. The URL is the following: http://litvabook.8k.com/ And for those with whom I correspond, this is my new address (wladzia at netage.bg), while the old one (vlk960 at cj.aubg.bg) will soon be disabled. Best, W.K. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Tue Jun 6 17:54:21 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 10:54:21 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: <00cb01bfcfd2$8a601e20$3001010a@netage.bg> Message-ID: No, no, Mandarin grammar is easier. :) But that's the only one I know that is. Kat -- Kat Tancock UVic Language Centre http://web.uvic.ca/langcen tancockk at uvic.ca > From: Wladzimier Katkowski > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 18:28:33 +0300 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: Why students do not study Russian anymore > >> I agree! It is very difficult to teach a language (any language) to >> native English speakers when they have a poor grasp of English grammar. > > What grammar?? ;) > Just want to point out that English has extremely simple grammar. > Of all the languages I know (English, German and 4 Slavic ones) > English has by far the most simple structure. That's why native speakers > have a huuuge problem with changing endings whether it happens to nouns > in different cases or to verbs in different tenses or to adjectives, etc, > etc... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From chekov at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Tue Jun 6 18:39:00 2000 From: chekov at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (B. A. Lugo De Fabritz) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 11:39:00 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, E. Boyle wrote: > > I do not think we need to alter the grammar. We need to change the way we > present the language though. No one will become enthralled with anything > that's presented as merely so many grammatical structures. I agree. After years of teaching Russian, I am now a teaching assistant in the Spanish department at my university. The difference in presentation is night and day. Program wise, the department makes no excuses about trying to make the Spanish language and culture relevant to their lives. The cultural component of the teaching program is amazingly robust. The idea is: get them interested in their interests, and the grammar will come in under the radar screen, like a stealth fighter. And, you know, mostly it works. Granted Russian grammar is a lot more complicated than Spanish -- however, I think the fact is that if programs took the time to update their cultural content, and tried to make significant integration of everyday life into the class, it would go a LONG way to keeping them there. Amarilis Lugo de Fabritz Graduate student University of Washington ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elspeth at FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU Tue Jun 6 19:29:51 2000 From: elspeth at FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU (Elizabeth B. Naime) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 14:29:51 -0500 Subject: Generic Grammar Course? (was RE: Why students do not study Russia n anymore) In-Reply-To: <97A32872DFFED211A62E0008C79168A4FAE794@kenmsg03b.us.schp.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Udut, Kenneth wrote: > I wonder: > > Do any colleges/universities offer > a course in plain ol' grammar? > > That is - some kind of course that > brings together all *known* possibilities of > grammar 'styles' and gives examples, definitions, > explanations, etc? I think linguistics is the closest you get to this. It is useful to have an idea of what's out there, although I don't know how useful it is to memorize a huge number of possibilities; simply knowing that your language's way of doing things isn't the only way would be a big head start for the average college student. A background in phonetics and transcription would help students hear the language, and give them a way to record it before they have the alphabet committed to memory. Working on courses that actually ask the students to draw conclusions (here's 15 sentences in inupik, with rough English translations -- *you* tell *me* how many cases are represented, and what they mean) would let students learn the target language, not just keep trying to find parallels between the target language and their own. I think linguistics is fun, mind-bending and useful! But it is also a different sort of knowledge than actually using a language. Some students find it distracting. The skills needed to write a linguistic description of a language are often NOT the skills needed to write a learning grammar of the language. Language learning and language analysis are not the same thing. Some people, and you seem to be in this group, really like to approach language "rationally": these are the cases, these are the rules, this is the word order... many people, probably a majority, learn better from "picking the language up" in actual use than from memorizing tables. I wonder what the best approach for both types would be? Elizabeth Naime ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU Tue Jun 6 20:08:50 2000 From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (Wayles Browne) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:08:50 -0400 Subject: Generic Grammar Course? (was RE: Why students do not study Russia n anymore) In-Reply-To: <97A32872DFFED211A62E0008C79168A4FAE794@kenmsg03b.us.schp.com> Message-ID: Kenneth Udut wonders: >Do any colleges/universities offer >a course in plain ol' grammar? > >That is - some kind of course that >brings together all *known* possibilities of >grammar 'styles' and gives examples, definitions, >explanations, etc? > >For example: this hypothetical course, without >teaching any *specific* language, would >rather teach whatever the max # of known >cases are - I think it's, what - 8 in Indo-european languages, >and something like 15 in the Finnish one? [I forget], >and what they're all about. > >It would teach all the different potential known >genders - hopefully erasing once and for all >the "Why male and female and neuter distinctions?" question... > >It would teach the various potential word orders >that are known. Indeed they do. There is a science that deals with all these things. It is called linguistics. Over 150 U.S. colleges and universities have introductory linguistics courses, and some have upper-level courses dealing with linguistic typology, which is precisely the study of all the different possible categories and structures that different languages show. Yours faithfully, Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics Department of Linguistics Morrill Hall 321, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Tue Jun 6 22:26:49 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 15:26:49 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: <393C9E77.60DE8FC7@accessone.com> Message-ID: Yes, this is definitely a problem. The woman who supervised first and second year Russian here at the University of Oregon (now, alas, deceased) assigned a slim book, English Grammar for Students of Russian, to remedy this problem. It really is a pity that Latin isn't a required subject in grammar schools (as opposed to vocational high schools) any more, for if you have two years of Latin, you may not know Latin, but you do know grammar of Indo-European languages. -Martha Sherwood- On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, Stephen J. Bobick wrote: > Marta Sherwood-Pike wrote: > > Half of the small class consisted of Koreans and Japanese, > > who had already learned a language not closely related to their own > > (English), and I, fairly proficient in Russian, grasped the concepts of > > the very different grammar, but the other Americans were clueless. Most > > American students emerge from high schools without the mental skills to > > learn difficult foreign languages, chiefly because they are not exposed to > > a bilingual environment in their childhood. > > In addition, I would argue that a major difficulty is that many do not > have a firm grasp of English grammar. > > -- Stephen Bobick > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Tue Jun 6 23:24:07 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:24:07 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here in Eugene we have a French language and Japanese language immersion program in the elementary school, but the quality of instruction does not seem to be such as to really teach the children the language. When I was in sixth grade we were exposed to a televised Spanish program (1960) which really gripped me. Spanish is an obvious first choice for an elementary and middle-school language program, for one really does need to know how to use it for many jobs. I took both Spanish and German in high school, German in college, studied French and Latin on my own as part of my graduate curriculum, and got a second bacchalaureate in Russian when working in the Russian Department at the University of Oregon. Being a minority has nothing to do with it. Holding out the promise of job opportunities which don't exist is dishonest, and moreover counterproductive. So is the promise of entry into a greater understanding of Russian literature, for how many third-year Russian students can appreciate Pushkin better in Russian than in translation? One is left, I think, with the principle, that studying any hard language is worthwhile, because it really increases your mental flexibility and teaches you how to think. -Martha Sherwood- On Tue, 6 Jun 2000, Cheri C Wilson wrote: > On Mon, 5 Jun 2000, Marta Sherwood-Pike wrote: > > > Most American students emerge from high schools without the mental > > skills to learn difficult foreign languages, chiefly because they are > > not exposed to a bilingual environment in their childhood. > > Marta, > > I would have to agree with you on this one. It appears that the trend > nowadays is to start language training early, such as in Montessori > schools, pre-K programs, etc. It appears that the language usually taught > at that stage is Spanish. > > I am hoping to demonstrate this point through my personal story, which I > hope no one will mind. > > I started studying French in the 6th grade and continued it through my > freshman year of college. I also studied Spanish for three years in high > school. My high school offered Russian, which I wanted to take my senior > year; but, the guidance counselors said no because I was already taking > two other languages (as if being multilingual is a bad thing). I was the > only student in my high school taking two languages. > > I started taking Russian my 2nd year of college and was immediately > fascinated by how little I knew about the geographical area in > general. Next, I started taking literature, culture, history, politics, > etc and then changed my major to Slavic and East European Studies. > > I transferred schools and had the opportunity to intern for a semester in > a think tank. I also spent the spring semester of my final year in Russia > where I lived in 4 different cities--Nizhnii Novgorod, Moscow, > Chelyabinsk, and St. Petersburg. I received a B.A. in Russian language > and literature (with a broader focus on Russian Area Studies, although the > University did not have an official program). I continued on and > received the M.A. in Russian Area Studies. Initially, my plan was to > receive the M.A. and then go on to law school, so that I work specifically > with Russia. My advisor convinced me to apply to the Ph.D. program in > History, so here I am a Ph.D. candidate in Russian history. The wonderful > thing is that I have been able to combine my passion for Russian, history, > and law into my area of specialization, Russian legal history. > > Believe it or not, I still remember much of my French and Spanish from > junior high and high school and use both languages whenever I have the > opportunity as well as for research. I also managed to pick up a reading > knowledge of German on the side for good measure. > > Add to the mix that I happen to be black (not African-American please); > then one really has to ask how did I get interested in all of the > different languages when I don't have any of those ethnicities in my > background? > > This leads to a question that I would like to pose to the list. How does > one get minority students interested in foreign languages, specifically > Slavic languages? I ask because no one had to use the old Pushkin trick > to try to hook me in. But, then again, I don't think that you have to be > a particularly ethnicity to study the history or language of a certain > ethnicity. > > Just my $.02 kopecks, > > Cheri C. Wilson > > Cheri C. Wilson > Ph.D. candidate, Russian history > Teaching Fellow > Loyola College in Maryland > Department of History > 4501 N. Charles Street > Baltimore, MD 21210-2699 > Office telephone: (410) 617-2017 > Fax: (410) 617-2832 > E-mail: CWilson3 at loyola.edu > http://www.evergreen.loyola.edu/~CWilson3/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From simplify3 at JUNO.COM Wed Jun 7 03:06:11 2000 From: simplify3 at JUNO.COM (Kenneth E Udut) Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 23:06:11 -0400 Subject: Generic Grammar Course? (was RE: Why students do not study Russia n anymore) Message-ID: Well, dang, it sounds like I need to enroll myself in a linguistics program! Heck, had I the money (and not a defaulted student loan from a faied 1 1/2 yr attempt at "experimental college" at Hampshire College), I'd easily be a "professional student". There's too much in the world that I'm curious about, and have to resort to public libraries, buying books from amazon.com and internet listservs (and plain ol' speculation about the nature of all sorts of things). Ah well. I'm 28 yrs old now, and maybe someday (if I don't accidentally find myself with a wife and children), I'll have that student loan paid off, and be able to go full time to school when I'm 40 (which will be here before I know it). If ya don't 'get it right' when your fresh out of high school, you're stuck, I s'pose. -Kenneth > Indeed they do. There is a science that deals with all these > things. It is called linguistics. Over 150 U.S. colleges > and universities have introductory linguistics courses, > and some have upper-level courses dealing with linguistic > typology, which is precisely the study of all the different > possible categories and structures that different languages > show. > > Yours faithfully, > > Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics > Department of Linguistics > Morrill Hall 321, Cornell University > Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexander.Boguslawski at ROLLINS.EDU Wed Jun 7 13:21:53 2000 From: Alexander.Boguslawski at ROLLINS.EDU (Alexander.Boguslawski at ROLLINS.EDU) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 08:21:53 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: I am following the discussion with great interest. However, I am surprised that nobody yet pointed out that the lack of interest in Russian, as well as in everything else requiring effort, is a part of the overall dismal state of our educational system. Students are not prepared -- universities have become more of remedial institutions than institutions of higher learning. Try to assign your students a short poem to memorize -- let's say, Ya vas lyubil -- and you'll see that a tiny fraction will be able to do it. Are they less intelligent than our parents or us? No. They were simply never taught how to study hard. Improve overall preparation of our students, and the enrollments will rise. Thanks for reading, Alexander Boguslawski, Professor of Russian Studies Rollins College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Wed Jun 7 13:07:38 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 09:07:38 -0400 Subject: Generic Grammar Course? (was RE: Why students do not study Ru ssian anymore) Message-ID: Speaking for myself, I'd prefer to learn Russian by 'picking it up' - but since the materials currently out there are *mostly* in the form of language descriptions for Russian, [and I can't find a person to help me with my Russian using TPR or "The Silent Way", which I would really love], knowing what all of the descriptive features mean, that is, knowing all of the possibilities that are out there -- all of the possibilities *without* being stressed out with lists of vocabulary, specific declensions and conjugations, proper word orders for a *specific language* -- would be a tremendous boost in that when the time came that I was to learn a language like Russian, it wouldn't matter if the teacher was using sentence diagramming, or Total Physical Response, or sending me to Brighton Beach NY to work my way through purchasing a dozen perogi and a CD, or using 'communicative methods' or Field Linguistic techniques, because then, there would be less chance that I would be thrown. It's all in retrospect, of course, because I *have* had to attempt to pick up an understanding of language analysis; I've had to struggle through the descriptions of the cases, with minimal examples, and I can say, it drives me batty. Pimsleur is at least helping in that it doesn't bother describing the grammar, but it *is* teaching it. I'm definately of the majority that you describe here. Were the resources greater, I would avail myself of them. But, in the meantime, I have to make do with what's around, and analyzing patterns from large bodies of words, trying to identify the prefixes and suffixes to help gain skills in identifying mysterious words, working with Pimsleur to help automate my speech, working with "How to Read Russian" type books to help be able to go through a simple newspaper without choking -- this eclectic approach - a nibble here, a bite there - is all I'm able to manage at this point. I've got together memory systems, written programs during spare time at work to analyze Russian texts and large lists of words (I have one list that's just over 1 million unique Russian words) so that I can find out patterns to focus on, I've got the Russian TV blaring when I'm at home, I correspond in Russian (badly) with a few online friends, practice on several mailing lists... Frankly, it's a pain! [I'm personality type INFP, so if you know anything of Myers-Briggs, you'll know that analyzing is *not* my forte - it's a survival mechanism that is used badly :-) ] -Kenneth -----Original Message----- From: Elizabeth B. Naime [mailto:elspeth at FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU] Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2000 3:30 PM Subject: Re: Generic Grammar Course? (was RE: Why students do not study Russia n anymore) [...] But it is also a different sort of knowledge than actually using a language. Some students find it distracting. The skills needed to write a linguistic description of a language are often NOT the skills needed to write a learning grammar of the language. Language learning and language analysis are not the same thing. Some people, and you seem to be in this group, really like to approach language "rationally": these are the cases, these are the rules, this is the word order... many people, probably a majority, learn better from "picking the language up" in actual use than from memorizing tables. I wonder what the best approach for both types would be? Elizabeth Naime ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From russky at UNB.CA Wed Jun 7 15:49:42 2000 From: russky at UNB.CA (allan reid) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:49:42 -0400 Subject: CFP: Contemporary East Europ. Women Poets Message-ID: CALL FOR PAPERS--DEADLINE EXTENDED Submissions are sought for a special issue of CANADIAN SLAVONIC PAPERS, edited by Allan Reid, on Contemporary East European Women Poets. Proposals and brief abstracts (50 words) should be submitted by August 15, 2000, with complete submissions due on Nov 15, 2000. Be sure to reply offlist with requests for further information or submissions to russky at unb.ca. allan reid Allan Reid Chair, Dep't of Culture and Language Studies Associate Professor of Russian University of New Brunswick tel: (506) 458-7714 P.O. Box 4400 fax: (506) 447-3166 Fredericton, N.B. http://www.unb.ca/web/arts Canada E3B 5A3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Wed Jun 7 16:14:06 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:14:06 EDT Subject: Generic Grammar Course? (was RE: Why students do not study Ru ssian anymore) Message-ID: Speaking of Pimsleur and suchlike language programs, have you used the US government's F.A.S.T. tapes? They're part of the material used to familiarize diplomats who are being sent abroad ASAP. Compared to Pimsleur they're not expensive. I got a lot of useful vocabulary and conversation from my Czech version, which I don't think takes you as far as the "major language" tapes like Russian. The State Dept. puts them out, if I remember correctly, but it's through some tape company with another acronym. They're on the Web,somewhere. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Wed Jun 7 16:19:21 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:19:21 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Alexander Boguslawski: > I am following the discussion with great interest. However, I am surprised > that nobody yet pointed out that the lack of interest in Russian, as well as > in everything else requiring effort, is a part of the overall dismal state > of our educational system. Students are not prepared -- universities have > become more of remedial institutions than institutions of higher learning. > Try to assign your students a short poem to memorize -- let's say, Ya vas > lyubil -- and you'll see that a tiny fraction will be able to do it. Are > they less intelligent than our parents or us? No. They were simply never > taught how to study hard. Improve overall preparation of our students, and > the enrollments will rise. Thanks for reading, Yes, learning by heart is not something US students would like. At school teachers spare the poor kids from too much pressure of learning. Besides, learning by heart is considered pedagogically inacceptable, almost like child abuse. There is yet another issue: US students don't read any more. They just don't. According to CNN, an average 16-year-old in the late 90's has a vocabulary of 10,000 words whereas an average 16-year-old in the early fifties had a vocabulary of 25,000 words. Television and computers have taken their toll. Several years ago I was looking for the museum of O'Henry (William Porter) in Austin , Texas. Though the museum is located in the center of the city, next to the popular 6th street, no one of the people I asked could recall anything about the museum. In fact, very few people had ever heard the name of O'Henry. When I finally located the museum and entered it, the first guestion the guide asked was: "Are you from Russia?" Names like Truman Capote or even Kurt Vonnegut embarrassed most students I spoke with. No, we have not heard or read. Would you expect a massive interest to the Russian classics? What can be more boring. It ain't rap, movies or basketball. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jbartle at HAMILTON.EDU Wed Jun 7 16:35:10 2000 From: jbartle at HAMILTON.EDU (John Bartle) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:35:10 -0400 Subject: please reply offline Message-ID: Dear friends and colleagues-- Does anyone know where one might order/find a CD-ROM entitled *Izbushka: An Interactive Aid to Reading Russian Folklore*? I think the author is David Galloway. Please reply offlist to: fsciacca at hamilton.edu OR jbartle at hamilton.edu Thanks in advance, John Bartle Hamilton College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wils0141 at AMETHYST.TC.UMN.EDU Wed Jun 7 16:32:04 2000 From: wils0141 at AMETHYST.TC.UMN.EDU (Cheri C Wilson) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 11:32:04 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: <001f01bfd09c$239b7750$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, Pavel Samsonov wrote: > Yes, learning by heart is not something US students would like. At school > teachers spare the poor kids from too much pressure of learning. Besides, > learning by heart is considered pedagogically inacceptable, almost like > child abuse. Yes, but I think that if someone memorizes something at a very young age, the chances of retaining it later in life are very likely. Case in point, my 6th grade French teacher made us memorize the U.S. Pledge of Allegiance in French. I still remember it 20 years later. I strongly believe that the Russian phrase "povternei - mat' izuchenie" is quite accurate. --Cheri Cheri C. Wilson Ph.D. candidate, Russian history Teaching Fellow Loyola College in Maryland Department of History 4501 N. Charles Street Baltimore, MD 21210-2699 Office telephone: (410) 617-2017 Fax: (410) 617-2832 E-mail: CWilson3 at loyola.edu http://www.evergreen.loyola.edu/~CWilson3/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at WOLFENET.COM Wed Jun 7 17:45:06 2000 From: ggerhart at WOLFENET.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 10:45:06 -0700 Subject: Russian anymore Message-ID: About memorization: actually, I suspect that the real problem is that the students were never _asked_ to memorize, especially poetry. The argument among educationists was that "lock-step" was no way to teach kiddies. And that sheer memorization was too mechanical and did not require or enhance the ability to think. So the poor b------- grew up with nothing to refer to. Genevra Gerhart ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Wed Jun 7 17:51:14 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:51:14 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: > However, I am surprised >that nobody yet pointed out that the lack of interest in Russian, as well >as in everything else requiring effort, is a part of the overall dismal state >of our educational system. I doubt that one can make such a blanket statement. There are students who work hard and there those who don't. In addition, most of my students work at least 20 hours a week. >Try to assign your students a short poem to memorize -- let's say, Ya vas >lyubil -- and you'll see that a tiny fraction will be able to do it. This is a separate issue: learning poetry by heart is not part of American culture, like choral singing is not part of Russian culture to the same extent it is part of the American culture. Where Russians quote poets ("kak skazal poet", never mind which one), Americans quote the Bible. >There is yet another issue: >US students don't read any more. They just don't. According to CNN, an >average 16-year-old in the late 90's has a vocabulary of 10,000 words >whereas an average 16-year-old in the early fifties had a vocabulary of >25,000 words. How did they measure this? Was it active vocabulary or passive? Those kids in the fifties were almost as good as Pushkin. >Television and computers have taken their toll. >Several years ago I was looking for the museum of O'Henry (William Porter) >in Austin , Texas. Though the museum is located in the center of the city, >next to the popular 6th street, no one of the people I asked could recall >anything about the museum. In fact, very few people had ever heard the name >of O'Henry. O.Henry is one of the three most popular American writers in Russia of all times (the other two are Jack London and Hemingway). He does not have the same rating at home. Next time try E.A. Poe's museum. >Names like Truman Capote or even Kurt Vonnegut embarrassed most students I >spoke with. But somebody must have heard of them. K.V. was the MIT keynote graduation speaker a couple of years ago, and T.C. was all over Broadway. ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Wed Jun 7 17:58:02 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:58:02 -0400 Subject: Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, Genevra Gerhart wrote: > About memorization: actually, I suspect that the real problem is that the > students were never _asked_ to memorize, especially poetry. The argument > among educationists was that "lock-step" was no way to teach kiddies. And > that sheer memorization was too mechanical and did not require or enhance > the ability to think. Tak, os' i de zarytyj sobaka. There is also the pervasive attitude that you can't harm the kiddies' fragile ego - and putting them on the spot like this (i.e. standing in front of the class to recite poetry) is just too risky. -- Stephen Bobick ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Wed Jun 7 17:56:22 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 12:56:22 -0500 Subject: Russian anymore Message-ID: > About memorization: actually, I suspect that the real problem is that the > students were never _asked_ to memorize, especially poetry. The argument > among educationists was that "lock-step" was no way to teach kiddies. And > that sheer memorization was too mechanical and did not require or enhance > the ability to think. > So the poor b------- grew up with nothing to refer to. > Genevra Gerhart I have been successfully using some simple memorization technique with my adult students, who normally detest memorization. I try to make it fun. What I do I write a message of 3-4 sentences on a board and get them to read it. Then I erase some words and get the students to read the message one by one pretending that the words are there, then remove some more words until someone actually reads from the clean board. They get ecstatic because they realize that in 2-3 minutes they can memorize a text of 15-25 words! And there is a covert competition among the students. I prefer to to it with a computer and a projector. If you have created several slides with links between them, you can always get back to the previous or original slide. And you can store the slides for further use. It is also a great device for aptitude testing. Those who can memorize short text easily, will make better progress. The messages should be topical, fun (if it is not fun it won't work) and within their interests (movies, music,etc.). It works! With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lgoering at CARLETON.EDU Wed Jun 7 18:15:54 2000 From: lgoering at CARLETON.EDU (Laura Goering) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:15:54 -0500 Subject: Russian anymore: irrelevant digression on Vonnegut In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >>Names like Truman Capote or even Kurt Vonnegut embarrassed most students I >>spoke with. > >But somebody must have heard of them. K.V. was the MIT keynote graduation >speaker a couple of years ago, and T.C. was all over Broadway. > Actually, Vonnegut was never a commencement speaker at MIT, and his supposed speech that circulated widely on the Internet was written by Mary Schmich of the Chicago Tribune. See the URL below for an interesting tale on how information morphs in cyberspace. http://www.chicago.tribune.com/news/columnists/schmich/feature/0,1438,4379- 4379,00.html ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Laura Goering Associate Professor of Russian Dept. of German and Russian Carleton College Northfield, MN 55057 Tel: 507-646-4125 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexander.Boguslawski at ROLLINS.EDU Wed Jun 7 19:15:11 2000 From: Alexander.Boguslawski at ROLLINS.EDU (Alexander.Boguslawski at ROLLINS.EDU) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:15:11 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Dear Alina, I can find counterarguments to almost anything; and yet, denying the fact that students really do not know what hard work is and the fact that many come to the college or university almost illiterate (and leave almost illiterate), is avoiding a discussion of the ways we could improve our educational system. I have had wonderful, hard working students -- but over the years the proportion of good students to bad changed dramatically. In a class of 15 there may be now five, who work hard or close to their potential; fifteen years ago there were at least ten. I also realize that there are different schools with a different caliber of students; but the fact that they do not know how to read, don't know how to write, have incredibly limited vocabulary and incredibly underdeveloped "basic" knowledge (geography, history, art, music etc.) is a fact and, unless profound reform takes place, will remain a fact. Alexander Boguslawski ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Wed Jun 7 18:14:45 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 13:14:45 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: > >There is yet another issue: > >US students don't read any more. They just don't. According to CNN, an > >average 16-year-old in the late 90's has a vocabulary of 10,000 words > >whereas an average 16-year-old in the early fifties had a vocabulary of > >25,000 words. > > How did they measure this? Was it active vocabulary or passive? Those kids > in the fifties were almost as good as Pushkin. I myself regard such statistics with suspicion. Yes, it is hard to measure these things, but in the context of our discussion this can be used: it supports the idea of students' not reading. > > O.Henry is one of the three most popular American writers in Russia of all > times (the other two are Jack London and Hemingway). He does not have the > same rating at home. Next time try E.A. Poe's museum. That's why the guide said I was Russian. O.Henry is much more popular in Russia than in his native Texas. There were some political reasons - he was considered a critic of capitalism. > > > But somebody must have heard of them. K.V. was the MIT keynote graduation > speaker a couple of years ago, and T.C. was all over Broadway. Somebody - yes. But not many. There are a lot of really educated and cultivated people in the USA and like anywhere in the world they tend to keep a low profile. Yes, I know a professor of Philosophy at Texas A&M who has read entire Nabokov in Russian. A couple of my students were exceptionally familiar with the Russian poetry and music as well as with US literature. But those were exceptions. I am afraid that the trend is world-wide. I have visited Russia and the FSU countries several times recently and I can testify that the youth is losing interest to reading very rapidly. The US is leading the world and other countries follow. The US and other world's cultures are becoming increasingly visual, not text-based. This should be considered in education and foreign language teaching. Maybe we should take advantage of this? Why not? With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From alancarmack at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Wed Jun 7 21:18:30 2000 From: alancarmack at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Mr Carmack) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 14:18:30 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: <001f01bfd09c$239b7750$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: > There is yet another issue: > US students don't read any more. They just don't. According to CNN, an > average 16-year-old in the late 90's has a vocabulary of 10,000 words > whereas an average 16-year-old in the early fifties had a vocabulary of > 25,000 words. In your own words: "There is yet another issue." Here at UT-Austin I took a course in the English Department about teaching reading & writing in high school, and many educators suggest having the students read comic books and the like. A certain segment of educators feels this is better than pushing harder stuff on them, lest the turn away from reading totally. I say, given 'em something good and they'll come back for more,... maybe even put down their Nintendo for half an hour. As father of 3 kids, aged 7 and younger, we refuse to buy our children Nintendo or anything like it. Thankfully the local libraries sponsor a "summer reading program" and we have enrolled our oldest in that. As for foreign languages, in an Austin kindergarten (voted the best in the city) my oldest was taught both some Spanish =and= some Chinese (especially the numerals 1 to 10, and he still over a year later tells me what a Chinese "10" looks like). Now, in a small-town, in his first grade he was not even exposed to Spanish! He learned nothing new in math (in kinder he was already graphing and doing series). He did make great strides in reading. If we could we would homeschool him. Meanwhile, he went over to the home of the best math student in his 1st grade class, a Korean-American, and what did they do... play Nintendo. > Television and computers have taken their toll. O think computers can promote literacy. It's TV. and video games that demote it. Of course, it is up to parents to guide their kids' exposure to the boob tube. With a lot of families having two working parents, and they both come home tired, it is difficult to make supper, clean, do wash, and then sit down and read with one's kids. Much easier to stick them in front of a video to entertain them for an hour or more. Guess "Reading Rainbow" makes a good choice then. :-) > Several years ago I was looking for the museum of O'Henry (William Porter) > in Austin , Texas. Though the museum is located in the center of the city, > next to the popular 6th street, no one of the people I asked could recall > anything about the museum. In fact, very few people had ever > heard the name of O'Henry. As a 10-year resident of Austin, my only comments are that (a) the museum itself is small and (b) O'Henry is not exactly the most famous of authors. Not to dispute your message, though. My wife and I did indeed hear of the O'Henry Museum when we first moved here. But I don't think they do much advertising. I'd rather visit three dozen other authors' homes than O'Henry's. Plus his time in Austin, as I recall, was short. > When I finally located the museum and entered it, the first guestion the > guide asked was: "Are you from Russia?" > > Names like Truman Capote or even Kurt Vonnegut embarrassed most students I > spoke with. > No, we have not heard or read. > Would you expect a massive interest to the Russian classics? What can be > more boring. Well, I've read most the major Russian classics and nothing by Capote or Vonnegut. I think I am more interested in foreign cultures than my own--perhaps because my own has so recently become so "comic book" and "video-game" oriented. I think our culture is sinking quickly to the depths of the ancient Romans, who went to the Coliseum to see people and beasts attack each other. Wouldn't be surprised if some arena like that opened up, even in Austin, sometime soon. Hey, it would bring in more fans than does baseball. Alan Carmack MA-TEFL, UT-Austin student, Slavics Dept, UT-Austin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Wed Jun 7 19:30:28 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (VShell) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:30:28 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, Mr Carmack wrote: > Well, I've read most the major Russian classics and nothing by Capote or > Vonnegut. I think I am more interested in foreign cultures than my > own--perhaps because my own has so recently become so "comic book" and > "video-game" oriented. I think our culture is sinking quickly to the depths > of the ancient Romans, who went to the Coliseum to see people and beasts > attack each other. Wouldn't be surprised if some arena like that opened up, > even in Austin, sometime soon. Hey, it would bring in more fans than does > baseball. Well it actually already has: ever seen professional wrestling? There are other examples. Actually our society reminds me much more of that described in "Fahrenheit 451" - i.e. a society more and more dependent on constant aural, visual and other entertainment/stimulation. -- Stephen Bobick ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Wed Jun 7 19:35:36 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 15:35:36 EDT Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Where Russians quote poets ("kak skazal poet", never mind which one), Americans quote the Bible. I must be an anomaly then--quoting a poem is almost a conditioned reflex with me. (Since I grew up with the (very poetic) King James version of the bible but Christianity never quite stuck on me, I include that in my poetic repertoire.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From chesley at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Wed Jun 7 20:02:00 2000 From: chesley at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Ian Chesley) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:02:00 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: Kids today! I'm one of these young whippersnappers who came up in the age of rap and basketball and god knows what else. I spent hours in front of my Nintendo as a child. And now I've dedicated my life to scholarship in the humanities, reading Russian poetry and loving it. Why is this? Because I had great teachers and professors who knew how to make you fall in love with the stuff (which meant, in my case, discussing Pushkin's poetry in Russian rather than memorizing it by heart and reciting it). I'm lucky to have had them as teachers, because they knew that the mind learns fastest when it's relaxed and having fun. Now, why aren't kids today taking Russian? I think it's the simple answer already given here before - Russia just isn't on the nightly news as much nowadays, in contrast to Chinese- and Arabic-speaking countries. To those who believe the reasons are the difficulty of Russian and the lack of intellectual rigor in today's youth, allow me to point out (having studied Arabic as well) that Chinese, Arabic, and many other languages are far more difficult than Russian (for an English speaker), yet these fields are growing. As for Spanish, I don't know whether I'd even consider it a "foreign" language at all. My humble opinion is that it should probably be compulsory, alongside English, from kindergarten. BTW: My generation is willing to work hard if it knows why it's working hard; the reason could be a financial payoff, but it could just as easily be beauty or justice. It's just a matter of making a good case. Ian Chesley ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.brostrom at WAYNE.EDU Wed Jun 7 21:42:40 2000 From: kenneth.brostrom at WAYNE.EDU (Kenneth Brostrom) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 17:42:40 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: >Yes, this is definitely a problem. The woman who supervised first and >second year Russian here at the University of Oregon (now, alas, deceased) >assigned a slim book, English Grammar for Students of Russian, to remedy >this problem. It really is a pity that Latin isn't a required subject in >grammar schools (as opposed to vocational high schools) any more, for if >you have two years of Latin, you may not know Latin, but you do know >grammar of Indo-European languages. -Martha Sherwood- > We have used this book (English Grammar for Students of Russian) in our first-year Russian course for several years now (it has variants for French, Spanish, German, Latin, Italian, and Japanese). The results have been quite good. But it's necessary to make it a required textbook, to integrate it into the syllabus, and to quiz students on it. Otherwise the students who need it most won't bother to study it. This little book's greatest virtue is that it can eliminate the need to discuss elementary grammatical terms (e.g., subject, objects, predicates, the parts of speech, etc.), leaving more class time for work with Russian. It's available from the Olivia and Hill Press in Ann Arbor, MI. Kenneth Brostrom Assoc. Prof. of Russian Dept. of German and Slavic Studies 443 Manoogian Hall Wayne State University Detroit, MI 48202 Telephone: (313) 577-6238 FAX (313) 577-3266 E-mail: kenneth.brostrom at wayne.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Wed Jun 7 23:27:45 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:27:45 -0700 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was initially surprised at my Russian friends' admiration of Ken Kesey, though upon reflection it made sense. Siniavsky is more literary, but they both have the same message of maintaining one's humanity and dignity in the face of degrading circumstances. I just read a book, 'Give us this Day' by Sidney Stewart, about American experiences in Japanese concentration camps in the Phillippines during World War II. The book is profoundly moving, and may have linguisitic implications. I highly secommend it. -Martha Sherwood- On Wed, 7 Jun 2000, Mr Carmack wrote: > > There is yet another issue: > > US students don't read any more. They just don't. According to CNN, an > > average 16-year-old in the late 90's has a vocabulary of 10,000 words > > whereas an average 16-year-old in the early fifties had a vocabulary of > > 25,000 words. > > In your own words: "There is yet another issue." Here at UT-Austin I took a > course in the English Department about teaching reading & writing in high > school, and many educators suggest having the students read comic books and > the like. A certain segment of educators feels this is better than pushing > harder stuff on them, lest the turn away from reading totally. I say, given > 'em something good and they'll come back for more,... maybe even put down > their Nintendo for half an hour. As father of 3 kids, aged 7 and younger, we > refuse to buy our children Nintendo or anything like it. > Thankfully the local libraries sponsor a "summer reading program" and we > have enrolled our oldest in that. As for foreign languages, in an Austin > kindergarten (voted the best in the city) my oldest was taught both some > Spanish =and= some Chinese (especially the numerals 1 to 10, and he still > over a year later tells me what a Chinese "10" looks like). Now, in a > small-town, in his first grade he was not even exposed to Spanish! He > learned nothing new in math (in kinder he was already graphing and doing > series). He did make great strides in reading. If we could we would > homeschool him. Meanwhile, he went over to the home of the best math student > in his 1st grade class, a Korean-American, and what did they do... play > Nintendo. > > > Television and computers have taken their toll. > > O think computers can promote literacy. It's TV. and video games that demote > it. Of course, it is up to parents to guide their kids' exposure to the boob > tube. With a lot of families having two working parents, and they both come > home tired, it is difficult to make supper, clean, do wash, and then sit > down and read with one's kids. Much easier to stick them in front of a video > to entertain them for an hour or more. Guess "Reading Rainbow" makes a good > choice then. :-) > > > Several years ago I was looking for the museum of O'Henry (William Porter) > > in Austin , Texas. Though the museum is located in the center of the city, > > next to the popular 6th street, no one of the people I asked could recall > > anything about the museum. In fact, very few people had ever > > heard the name of O'Henry. > > As a 10-year resident of Austin, my only comments are that (a) the museum > itself is small and (b) O'Henry is not exactly the most famous of authors. > Not to dispute your message, though. My wife and I did indeed hear of the > O'Henry Museum when we first moved here. But I don't think they do much > advertising. I'd rather visit three dozen other authors' homes than > O'Henry's. Plus his time in Austin, as I recall, was short. > > > > When I finally located the museum and entered it, the first guestion the > > guide asked was: "Are you from Russia?" > > > > Names like Truman Capote or even Kurt Vonnegut embarrassed most students I > > spoke with. > > No, we have not heard or read. > > Would you expect a massive interest to the Russian classics? What can be > > more boring. > > Well, I've read most the major Russian classics and nothing by Capote or > Vonnegut. I think I am more interested in foreign cultures than my > own--perhaps because my own has so recently become so "comic book" and > "video-game" oriented. I think our culture is sinking quickly to the depths > of the ancient Romans, who went to the Coliseum to see people and beasts > attack each other. Wouldn't be surprised if some arena like that opened up, > even in Austin, sometime soon. Hey, it would bring in more fans than does > baseball. > > Alan Carmack > MA-TEFL, UT-Austin > student, Slavics Dept, UT-Austin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jflevin at UCRAC1.UCR.EDU Wed Jun 7 23:56:36 2000 From: jflevin at UCRAC1.UCR.EDU (Jules Levin) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 16:56:36 -0700 Subject: Generic Grammar Course? In-Reply-To: <97A32872DFFED211A62E0008C79168A4FAE794@kenmsg03b.us.schp.c om> Message-ID: At 11:44 AM 6/6/00 -0400, you wrote: >I wonder: > >Do any colleges/universities offer >a course in plain ol' grammar? UC Riverside offers Ling 21 "Grammar". This was devised when it became clear that many students came to the university knowing literally nothing about grammar. I, who came up with the course (though have never taught it) described it as "teaching all the stuff that used to be taught in high school", e.g., nouns, adjectives (many students in Language 1 courses don't know the difference!), parsing sentences, etc. We specifically do NOT require this of Ling majors or Languages majors, who have to take Intro Linguistics instead. Enrollment wise, the course is quite successful. Jules Levin UC Riverside ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ogdenj at GWM.SC.EDU Thu Jun 8 03:14:43 2000 From: ogdenj at GWM.SC.EDU (Alexander Ogden) Date: Wed, 7 Jun 2000 23:14:43 -0400 Subject: faxing Chelyabinsk Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Does anyone have suggestions on getting a fax to Chelyabinsk? I need to get a document to a professor at Chelyabinsk State University quite urgently, but she has no idea about where she might be able to receive a fax. Any suggestions would be most appreciated. (Suggestions on e-mail might work, too, as long as a contact in Chelyabinsk could receive a file attachment.) Please respond offline to ogden at sc.edu. Many thanks, Alex Ogden Dr. J. Alexander Ogden Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian and Comparative Literature Department of Germanic, Slavic & East Asian Languages and Literatures University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 (803) 777-4882; fax: (803) 777-0132 ogden at sc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From C.Adlam at EXETER.AC.UK Thu Jun 8 13:36:15 2000 From: C.Adlam at EXETER.AC.UK (Carol Adlam) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:36:15 +0100 Subject: Research Fellowship and PhD Studentship Message-ID: THE UNIVERSITIES OF EXETER AND SHEFFIELD, UK DEPARTMENTS OF RUSSIAN Following recent success in securing a major award from the AHRB, the Russian Departments at the Universities of Exeter and Sheffield have established a joint research project entitled 'The Russian Visual Arts, 1863-1913: Documents from the British Library Collection'. The directors of the project are Professor Robert Russell (Sheffield) and Carol Adlam (Exeter). The following applications are invited: RESEARCH FELLOW (Scale R1A/03, �18,185, pay award pending) The post is tenable for three years from October 2000. Candidates must have native or near-native knowledge of Russian and English, and must have, or be about to be awarded, a PhD in an area of Russian cultural studies (preferably in the area of art history or criticism). A proven track record in research or demonstrable research potential is essential. The Research Fellow will be based in Exeter, but will be expected to liaise with members of the Project Team in Sheffield. Further particulars from Ms Adlam, Department of Russian, University of Exeter, Exeter EX4 4QH; Tel. 01392 264310; e.mail: c.adlam at exeter.ac.uk. Applications to Ms Adlam by 5 July 2000. Interviews will be held 20 July 2000. PhD STUDENTSHIP Applications are invited from suitably qualified candidates for a three-year AHRB PhD studentship attached to the project. The research student will examine the development of theatrical design and staging in Russia, 1863-1913. The student will be based at the University of Sheffield and will be supervised by Professor R. Russell, but will be expected to liaise with members of the Project Team at the University of Exeter. Further particulars from Professor Russell, Department of Russian and Slavonic Studies, University of Sheffield S102TN; Tel. 0114 222 7403; e-mail: Robert.Russell at sheffield.ac.uk. Applications to Professor Russell by 5 July 2000. http://www.ex.ac.uk/russian http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/academic/R-Z/rss/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From drannie_98 at YAHOO.COM Thu Jun 8 16:00:20 2000 From: drannie_98 at YAHOO.COM (Andrea Nelson) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 09:00:20 -0700 Subject: call for papers Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Papers are invited for the AATSEEL 2000 panel entitled "Issues in the Acquisition of Russian." This is a panel focused on empirical research which examines any aspect of the acquisition or learning of Russian as a foreign language. Please contact me at or the Pedagogy Division Head William Comer at with inquiries. Remember that abstracts for papers must be submitted to William Comer on or before the August 1, 2000 deadline. Yours, Andrea Nelson, Chair "Issues in the Acquisition of Russian" AATSEEL 2000 drannie_98 at yahoo.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos -- now, 100 FREE prints! http://photos.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wladzia at NETAGE.BG Thu Jun 8 14:20:12 2000 From: wladzia at NETAGE.BG (Wladzimier Katkowski) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 17:20:12 +0300 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: VShell wrote: > other examples. Actually our society reminds me much more of that > described in "Fahrenheit 451" - i.e. a society more and more dependent on > constant aural, visual and other entertainment/stimulation. Yea, Ray Bradbury was damn right about the psychlogical part. But due to the numerous technological breakthroughs the whole society will probably be controlled more similiarly to what we saw in "The Matrix" by Wachowski brothers, at least I think so. By the way, Stanislaw Lem told in one interview to some German magazine that he considers Internet to be a very dangerous unstudied phenomenon, and that he himself first started using it, but now doesn't even have an email. And he is the one credited with the first mention of Internet idea in SF literature! Best, W.K. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Thu Jun 8 17:14:59 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:14:59 -0400 Subject: Lem Message-ID: > By the way, Stanislaw Lem told in one >interview to some German magazine that he considers Internet to be a very >dangerous unstudied phenomenon, and that he himself first started using it, >but now doesn't even have an email. Berberova whose centenary is being celebrated in the announced conference, in her eighties refused to watch movies. And somebody I am sure could remember a grandfather who refused to use a telephone. ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AMandelker at AOL.COM Thu Jun 8 17:38:46 2000 From: AMandelker at AOL.COM (AMandelker at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 13:38:46 EDT Subject: Lem Message-ID: Tolstoy refused to read the newspapers.... partly to avoid encountering negative criticism of his work, but I believe he considered it ultimately a beneficial break from unnecessary media overload; remember the description of Stiva Oblonsky in AK reading the papers, not for the information, but because, like an after dinner drink or a cigar, they created a pleasant fog in the brain. There is a certain anesthetic effect from passive consumption, regardless of media form. An American science fiction writer came up with a scenario involving direct electronic stimulation of the pleasure centers of the brain. The result: a society of people who lived to "plug in." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Thu Jun 8 18:48:03 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:48:03 EDT Subject: Czech for geezers Message-ID: Does anyone out there know of books, programs, anything that might be particularly useful for someone (yours truly) learning Czech in middle age. Are there any writings on the subject that might be useful to an intelligent layperson (i.e. not a student of linguistics)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Thu Jun 8 19:10:45 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 15:10:45 -0400 Subject: Czech for geezers Message-ID: Just the other night, I saw audio-forum has a course on Czech. It's not cheap, and I don't know what their tape/book programs are like personally. I think the cost runs around $250+ for the sets. http://www.audio-forum.com What you can also do, if you find they have it, is then to search for "audio-forum + czech" and see if perhaps there are other audio-language retailers who carry the same item for cheaper. If I'm not mistaken, audio-forum, while not cheap, carries stuff for all sorts of languages. [that's how I found Pimsleur for 1/2 price -- good luck!] -Kenneth -----Original Message----- From: Leslie Farmer [mailto:Zemedelec at AOL.COM] Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 2:48 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Czech for geezers Does anyone out there know of books, programs, anything that might be particularly useful for someone (yours truly) learning Czech in middle age. Are there any writings on the subject that might be useful to an intelligent layperson (i.e. not a student of linguistics)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From scola at CREIGHTON.EDU Thu Jun 8 19:17:36 2000 From: scola at CREIGHTON.EDU (SCOLA Staff) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 14:17:36 -0500 Subject: Czech for geezers In-Reply-To: <6e.a0f8b.26714463@aol.com> Message-ID: SCOLA carries the Czech News along with news from Russia, Kyrgyz, Bulgaria, Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Estonia, Romania, Lithuania, Latvia, Georgia, Moldova, Turkey, Armenia, Poland, Slovenia, Croatia and Uzbekistan. These programs are available via digital satellite as well as video streamed via our website at www.scola.org You will need Real Player and program times vary by upto twenty minutes later than the scheduled US Central Time. We also offer Insta-classes which are a trancript and translation into English once per week of the first five minutes of the news in Russian, Czech and Polish. We will soon be showing news from Ukraine and Belarus. Plus Kurdish. Tajikistan looks promising. We hope to have links to resources for all 50 plus countries that SCOLA carries. We do have links to most embassies on our Country Connections webpage. Please check these out. Any contacts that you might have in any counties for more programming would be helpful also. We do offer anothe SCOLA Channel....SCOLA 2 that carries variety and entertainment plus language learning lessons....however, that nedds funding to be video streamed....right now it's just via digital satellite. SCOLA 2 carries Croatian programs, Lithuanian Showcases, Turkish Entertainment some Russian programming, varied polish programming and soon language lessons and entertainmant from Bulgaria. I'm hopeful that this helps. Joe Gulizia SCOLA Video Production Manager and Internet Coordinator ---------------------- SCOLA Satellite Network PO Box 619, McClelland, IA 51548-0619, U.S.A. Phone: 1 (712) 566-2202 Fax: 1 (712) 566-2502 E-Mail: scola at creighton.edu Web-Site: http://www.scola.org On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Leslie Farmer wrote: > Does anyone out there know of books, programs, anything that might be > particularly useful for someone (yours truly) learning Czech in middle age. > Are there any writings on the subject that might be useful to an intelligent > layperson (i.e. not a student of linguistics)? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From llt at HAWAII.EDU Thu Jun 8 22:01:55 2000 From: llt at HAWAII.EDU (Language Learning & Technology) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 12:01:55 -1000 Subject: LLT Issue 4:1 Now Available! Message-ID: We are happy to announce that Volume 4, Number 1 of Language Learning & Technology is now available at http://llt.msu.edu. This is the second part of a Special Issue on "The Role of Computer Technology in Second Language Acquisition Research" and was guest edited by Dorothy Chun. The contents are listed below. Please visit the LLT Web site and be sure to enter your free subscription if you have not already done so. Also, we welcome your submissions of articles, reviews, and commentaries for future issues. Check our guidelines for submission at http://llt.msu.edu/contrib.html Sincerely, Mark Warschauer, Irene Thompson, and Dorothy Chun, Editors Language Learning & Technology (http://llt.msu.edu) ***Feature Articles*** Methodological issues in research on learner-computer interactions in CALL by Volker Hegelheimer & Carol A. Chapelle Computer assisted second language vocabulary acquisition by Peter J. M. Groot Discourse functions and syntactic complexity in synchronous and asyncronous communication by Susana M. Sotillo Computer mediated communication: A window on L2 Spanish interlanguage by Robert Blake ***Columns*** On the Net A Starting Point for Classical Studies: The Perseus Project by Jean W. LeLoup & Robert Ponterio Emerging Technologies Web Browser Trends and Technologies by Bob Godwin-Jones Announcements News from Sponsoring Organizations ***Reviews*** Edited by Jennifer Leeman Teaching and Learning at a Distance: Foundations of Distance Education M. Simonson, S. Smaldino, M. Albright, & S. Zvacek Reviewed by Joy Egbert Language Teaching and Language Technology Sake Jager, John A. Nerbonne, A. J. van Essen (Eds.) Reviewed by Rafael Salaberry Conexiones: Interactive CD-ROM Michael Fast Reviewed by Karina Collentine Dans un quartier de Paris Gilberte Furstenberg Reviewed by Lara Lomicka and Hélène Gresso ***Call for Papers*** Theme: Technology and Indigenous Languages ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emboyle at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Jun 8 23:05:46 2000 From: emboyle at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (E. Boyle) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 16:05:46 -0700 Subject: Lem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, come on now, people. "Boasting" about not using the internet or email or even computers will get us no where with our current crop of students. The fact of the matter is, our "audience" as it were consists of kids who have been brought up on TV, movies and, yes, the computer, **whether we like it or not**. A university education is no longer the prized possession of the very rich, the very privileged and the very erudite. Hate to tell ya, but that's democracy in action. So I suggest we stop moaning about the sorry state of American culture (an opinion I don't share), stop whining about how "kids today" are completely uncultured (they are not), and get on with the business of trying to figure out how best to teach the students of today. If new teaching methods are called for, then let's put our energies there. Our students may not be able to spell "Luddites," but I bet they know them when they see them. Eloise *************** Eloise M. Boyle Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Washington Box 353580 Seattle, WA 98195 On leave 2000-2001 e-mail: emboyle at u.washington.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Thu Jun 8 23:59:02 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:59:02 EDT Subject: Dekuji mockrat! Message-ID: To all who replied to my "Czech for geezers" posting: Thank you! Some of the material I have, some was quite unknown to me and I'll be pursuing it. One more question (I must not have expressed myself earlier as clearly as I would have wished): Is anyone out there aware of material, accessible to a layperson (non-student of linguistics, etc.) on language teaching/learning with older students? The reason I ask is that I have some experience of a "difficult" language (Arabic) but I studied it in my 20s. Czech is supposed to be comparatively easier for English speakers, but I swear it seems harder. I assume this has something to do with being over two decades older, and I want to find out if there are any strategies around whatever difficulties my agin' brain may be putting in my way. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rv5s-ptrs at ASAHI-NET.OR.JP Fri Jun 9 00:19:25 2000 From: rv5s-ptrs at ASAHI-NET.OR.JP (Scott Petersen) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:19:25 +0900 Subject: Generic Grammar Course? (was RE: Why students do not study Ru ssian anymore) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Have you tried Rosetta Stone CD-ROM? Though not cheap, it works for me. I'm learning French now. They are on the Net at www.trstone.com Scott Petersen ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Jun 9 00:17:15 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:17:15 -0500 Subject: Lem Message-ID: With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "E. Boyle" To: Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2000 6:05 PM Subject: Re: Lem > Oh, come on now, people. "Boasting" about not using the internet or email > or even computers will get us no where with our current crop of students. > The fact of the matter is, our "audience" as it were consists of kids who > have been brought up on TV, movies and, yes, the computer, **whether we > like it or not**. A university education is no longer the prized > possession of the very rich, the very privileged and the very erudite. > Hate to tell ya, but that's democracy in action. So I suggest we stop > moaning about the sorry state of American culture (an opinion I don't > share), stop whining about how "kids today" are completely uncultured > (they are not), and get on with the business of trying to figure out how > best to teach the students of today. If new teaching methods are called > for, then let's put our energies there. Our students may not be able to > spell "Luddites," but I bet they know them when they see them. > > Eloise > > *************** > Eloise M. Boyle > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Washington > Box 353580 > Seattle, WA 98195 > > On leave 2000-2001 > e-mail: emboyle at u.washington.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Jun 9 01:09:12 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 20:09:12 -0500 Subject: Lem Message-ID: > Oh, come on now, people. "Boasting" about not using the internet or email > or even computers will get us no where with our current crop of students. > The fact of the matter is, our "audience" as it were consists of kids who > have been brought up on TV, movies and, yes, the computer, **whether we > like it or not**. A university education is no longer the prized > possession of the very rich, the very privileged and the very erudite. > Hate to tell ya, but that's democracy in action. So I suggest we stop > moaning about the sorry state of American culture (an opinion I don't > share), stop whining about how "kids today" are completely uncultured > (they are not), and get on with the business of trying to figure out how > best to teach the students of today. If new teaching methods are called > for, then let's put our energies there. Our students may not be able to > spell "Luddites," but I bet they know them when they see them. > > Eloise First, using computers and Internet in teaching is a must. It is just a matter of time that part of foreign language courses be taught online. It is a separate talk how it can be done, but it can and should be done. I am a gerat enthusiast here. The loss of interest to Russian is a complex issue and like any complex issue it has many causes. There is no doubt that there are specific reasons for the decline of Russian, and one of the main causes is that Russian programs were articially inflated during the cold war. The interest, however, will always be there, but on a lower level. Other reasons - yes, the US society is changing. You can read more on this in Neil's Postman's "Amising Ourselves to Death". The book is controversial, but one thing is for sure: intellectualism is not in fashion in the US now. I know, some folks will immediately produce counterarguments but here are the facts about Texas A&M University: - Only 12% of US citizens are enrolled in the graduate program in Math, 17% in the graduate programs in Engineering. By the year of 2008 the deficiency of computer-related workers is estimated as 25-30%. Let me quote from several independent sourses. 1. Freeman, P. and Aspray, W. (1999) The Supply of Information Technology Workers in the United States, Monthly Labor Review, 4: - Only about half of all high school graduates complete algebra II or chemistry, which are prerequisites for college mathematics and science - 2.King, J. 1998. Nerdy Image Feeds Labor Crisis - IS' Geeky Reputation Hampers Recruiting Efforts? Computerworld, v.32 n2 pl 96, January 1998.: - Our studies suggest that many young people regard IT professionals as geeky, nerdy people; on the other hand other students who may be interested lack resources to gain education and training - 3. Mitchell, G., Carnes, K. Mendosa, Ch. AMERICA'S NEW DEFICIT: THE SHORTAGE OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY WORKERS. U.S. Department of Commerce, http://www.ta.doc.gov/reports.htm#USTPS : - There is a mismatch between what universities teach and what industry wants. While workers with degrees from two- and four-year computer science programs are attractive to potential employers, many employers have found some skill sets lacking in many of these graduates- Can we talk about a deep crisis in the US education? Or "So I suggest we stop > moaning about the sorry state of American culture (an opinion I don't > share), stop whining about how "kids today" are completely uncultured > (they are not)," Are they really not? Probably, not completely. The way things are going, how long is it going to take them to become "completely" uncultured? How about the ecstasy about the new world's descovery: "Student-centered (good guys) as opposed to teacher-centered education" ( the latter is for bad guys - to be teacher-centered is almost like commiting a crime). And the "constructivist paradigm:" those who don't support are ruining our education. Down with teacher-controlled teaching. "We don't need no education" - has it been almost an anthem? "There is a paradigm shift from teacher-controlled to student-controlled, self-paced learning". Teacher is a peer, a friend, a consultant. A catalyst. Good. I am a full supporter of student-centered education. It is almost 2,500 years old: it was Aristotle who said that a person cannot teach any other person anything: nor math, nor swimming nor a foreign language (sic). But what he can do is help this other person teach himself. Wilhelm von Humbold: "We cannot teach a language, we can only create the conditions in which it will be learned". Too much fascination with the "paradigm shift" and "constructivism" can also explain the lowering of educational standards. I know, I am being "politically incorrect". But I believe there is no such thing as "student-centered" or "teacher-centered" teaching. There is poor teaching and there is good teaching. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From userrusj at IS.DAL.CA Fri Jun 9 01:43:05 2000 From: userrusj at IS.DAL.CA (John Barnstead) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:43:05 -0300 Subject: Lem In-Reply-To: <002701bfd1af$5303e770$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: Members of the SEELANGS list who are following the current discussion here on language pedagogy may find much of interest in David I. Smith and Barbara Carvill, *The Gift of the Stranger: Faith, Hospitality, and Foreign Language Learning*, (Grand Rapids/Cambridge: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co., 2000). One need not share its Christian outlook to profit from the many useful practical insights it contains. Best wishes, John A. Barnstead Department of Russian Studies Dalhousie University Halifax, Nova Scotia B3H 3J5 CANADA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Kevin.Windle at ANU.EDU.AU Fri Jun 9 02:21:55 2000 From: Kevin.Windle at ANU.EDU.AU (Kevin Windle) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:21:55 +1000 Subject: Czech textbooks In-Reply-To: <6e.a0f8b.26714463@aol.com> Message-ID: >Does anyone out there know of books, programs, anything that might be >particularly useful for someone (yours truly) learning Czech in middle age. >Are there any writings on the subject that might be useful to an intelligent >layperson (i.e. not a student of linguistics)? > If still needed, and if traditional print sources are of interest, there is David Short's 'Teach Yourself Czech: A Complete Course for Beginners', Hodder & Stoughton, 1993 & '98. There's also a very useful book for Russian speakers by Helena Confortiova, Hana Hrdlickova et al.: 'Cheshskii iazyk dlia russkikh', Statni pedagogicke nakladatelstvi, Prague, 1976 (so most likely out of print). Kevin Windle Dr Kevin Windle, Reader, Dept. of Classical and Modern European Languages, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 0200 Tel. (02) 6249 2885; Fax (02) 6249 3252 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Fri Jun 9 02:36:03 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Thu, 8 Jun 2000 22:36:03 EDT Subject: Lem Message-ID: In a message dated 6/9/0 3:17:11 AM, p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU writes: << one thing is for sure: intellectualism is not in fashion in the US now >> Come to think of it, when if ever WAS it? I 've been around for almost half a century and I don't remember a time (or hearing of a time) when the US as a whole valued intellectuals. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA Fri Jun 9 06:03:27 2000 From: natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA (Natalia Pylypiuk) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 00:03:27 -0600 Subject: Post-Doctoral Fellowship in Ukrainian Studies, U of Ottawa In-Reply-To: Message-ID: COMPETITION POST-DOCTORAL FELLOWSHIP POSITION The Chair of Ukrainian Studies of the University of Ottawa seeks applications of candidates for a two-year Post-Doctoral Fellowship position. Main duties will include: Working with the Chair's Committee on carrying into effect the instituted study-and-research programmes on contemporary Ukraine; Conducting publishable research, and giving specialized lectures on Ukrainian and related East and Central European subjects, as well as subjects pertaining to Canada-Ukraine relations; Requirements: PhD (or equivalent) degree in Social Sciences, obtained within the last 5 years; Specialization in Ukrainian Studies Pertinent research record Knowledge of English and Ukrainian. Command of French would be an asset (the University of Ottawa is a bilingual French-English institution) . Salary: Post-Doctoral level in accordance with the University of Ottawa's policy on Post-Doctoral Fellows. Date of Appointment: January or July 2001. Documentation required: To apply, please submit a curriculum vitae, and three letters of reference before June 30, 2000 to: Chair of Ukrainian Studies, University of Ottawa 559 King Edward Ave., P.O. Box 450, Stn A Ottawa ON K1N 6N5. Phone (613) 562-5800 ext. 3692 Fax (613) 562-5351 E-mail: ukrain at uottawa.ca Web-page: http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/grad-etudesup/ukr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Fri Jun 9 07:58:40 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (Stephen J. Bobick) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 00:58:40 -0700 Subject: Lem Message-ID: "E. Boyle" wrote: > A university education is no longer the prized > possession of the very rich, the very privileged and the very erudite. It also means less: one can get one with less work and commitment. Indeed, the term "dime a dozen" comes to mind when it comes to B.S. degrees in many fields. > Hate to tell ya, but that's democracy in action. Perhaps this statement is true for your incomplete portrayel of the situation. However, I don't consider it to be the case that "democracy in action" in university education necessarily effects a degradation in the quality of that education. We should be able to offer a high-quality education to anyone who is willing to work for it, and not drop to the lowest common denominator in the process. > So I suggest we stop > moaning about the sorry state of American culture (an opinion I don't > share), Fine, but many people disagree with your opinion. > stop whining about how "kids today" are completely uncultured > (they are not), Again, your opinion. And, BTW, you don't make your arguments or opinions any stronger by characterizing your opponents opinions with terms loaded with negative connotations like "moaning" and "whining". I can't speak for the other participants of this discussion, but I can assure you that I am not "whining" or "moaning". Indeed, I BENEFIT by the low quality of education in this country. It has afforded me a high-paying job in the biotechnology industry as a computer programmer -- a field where demand far outstrips supply, and quality workers, with a strong education (especially language skills, incidentally) are extremely difficult to come by. So, I guess I should be a proponent of the status quo, except I greatly fear the future of a world, should the current education trends in the US continue. -- Stephen Bobick ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Fri Jun 9 13:28:00 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 09:28:00 -0400 Subject: academia Message-ID: >How about the ecstasy about the new world's descovery: "Student-centered >(good guys) as opposed to teacher-centered education" ( the latter is for >bad guys - to be teacher-centered is almost like commiting a crime). > >"There is a paradigm shift from teacher-controlled to student-controlled, >self-paced learning". Teacher is a peer, a friend, a consultant. A >catalyst. >I know, I am being "politically incorrect". But I believe there is no such >thing as "student-centered" or "teacher-centered" teaching. How about this scenario. While signing up for a seminar (where every member is approved by the professor), every student must sign a contract or else the student cannot participate in it. The contract stipulates that anything the student says or writes for the course the professor can use in his/her work. For the duration of the seminar each student is assigned a work on the subject weekly, and at the end of the seminar the students have to turn in diskettes with this literature review. There also papers to write, of course. The students are later thanked in a forward of the professor's book. >There is poor teaching and there is good teaching. This method teaches something, certainly about some adversities of academic life, maybe some research skill. The list of what it does not teach would be longer. I think we should discuss what's wrong with (some of) us, ethics of our profession, not just what wrong with them (students). ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From simplify3 at JUNO.COM Fri Jun 9 10:29:37 2000 From: simplify3 at JUNO.COM (Kenneth E Udut) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 06:29:37 -0400 Subject: Yurij Lotoshko - seeking his e-mail address Message-ID: Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for Yurij Lotoshko, a Russian philologist and I *think* professor of phiology in Tver' back in 1997, not that long ago. I have his e-mail address as: lotofil at tversu.ac.ru but it doesn't appear to be working. I am interested in receiving a full version of his program which breaks down MS-DOS Codepage 866 Russian documents into syllables and pronounciation, since his demo version of RUSSYL.ZIP (available on ftp.funet.fi in their wonderful Russian culture section) has proved helpful and I want to receive the full program. He used to hang out in LINGUIST at that time - that's all I've been able to find out. Any information would be greatly appreciated! -Kenneth, who sez "this is all the more reason to release your shareware as uncrippled and possibly with sourcecode- anticipate being unable to support it" ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emboyle at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Jun 9 14:47:25 2000 From: emboyle at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (E. Boyle) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 07:47:25 -0700 Subject: Lem In-Reply-To: <3940A3B0.A88A8EB1@accessone.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Stephen J. Bobick wrote: > Again, your opinion. Well, yes. I understood that to be one of the purposes of SEELANGS. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emboyle at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Jun 9 14:48:47 2000 From: emboyle at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (E. Boyle) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 07:48:47 -0700 Subject: academia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Alina Israeli wrote: > > I think we should discuss what's wrong with (some of) us, ethics of our > profession, not just what wrong with them (students). Just so. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Jun 9 15:08:44 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 10:08:44 -0500 Subject: academia Message-ID: > > How about this scenario. While signing up for a seminar (where every member > is approved by the professor), every student must sign a contract or else > the student cannot participate in it. The contract stipulates that anything > the student says or writes for the course the professor can use in his/her > work. For the duration of the seminar each student is assigned a work on > the subject weekly, and at the end of the seminar the students have to turn > in diskettes with this literature review. There also papers to write, of > course. The students are later thanked in a forward of the professor's > book. Actually, when a teacher hands out the syllabus - it is already an agreement, a contract if you will. The above described course would be OK in Science, Math, maybe some Humanities. However, with language teaching... I don't know. It is still unclear, what is meant by the goal of studying a foreign language at school or college. Oral proficiency? Knowledge of grammar? Knowledge of culture? It is unrealistic to expect fluency from a student who has taken Russian for one or two semesters. Then we have to teach "about" Russian. In this case your scenario can be acceptable. > > >There is poor teaching and there is good teaching. > > This method teaches something, certainly about some adversities of academic > life, maybe some research skill. The list of what it does not teach would > be longer. > > I think we should discuss what's wrong with (some of) us, ethics of our > profession, not just what wrong with them (students). Are we and students separable? With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.brostrom at WAYNE.EDU Fri Jun 9 15:16:24 2000 From: kenneth.brostrom at WAYNE.EDU (Kenneth Brostrom) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 11:16:24 -0400 Subject: academia Message-ID: >I think we should discuss what's wrong with (some of) us, ethics of our >profession, not just what wrong with them (students). > This is certainly a fair observation, reflecting, I suppose, the old adage, "You can't change other people, you can only change yourself." This vigorous and lengthy discussion about "them" (the students) and "us" (the teachers) demonstrates once again how seriously we take what goes on in the classroom. But there is another party who bears responsibility for some of the problems encountered not only by us, but by the humanities in general: the administration. Some of the truly unethical and bizarre departures from academic rigor during the seventies were motivated in part by enrollment-driven budgets in institutions lacking enormous endowments and often dependent on state funding. This pattern continues, especially in institutions where corporate administrative models and values have insinuated themselves into the decision-making process. Alina is right to raise the question of professional ethics, at least in part because these administrative pressures often place us in an ethical bind. One only needs to point to grade inflation in the humanities over the past twenty-five years, generated largely by worry that tough but fair grading will lead to falling enrollments, loss of budget, non-renewal of tenure lines, and even program elimination. Administrative actions all over the country confirm that our worries are not ill-founded: my own German and Slavic department has roughly one-third the tenured faculty it had when I received tenure. There were then five tenured people in the Slavic area, and I am the lone "survivor." When I was an undergraduate many eons ago, a 'C' simply meant 'average.' Now it is akin to a slap in the face. At the University of Michigan spring commencement this year, President Lee Bollinger reviewed what the University was like 100 years ago, and what it might be like 100 years hence. Among other things he speculated that the grade of 'A' will have five gradations. We are frequently caught between the need to provide students with objective assessments and our concern that genuine objectivity will scare them away. Or at least send them to more lenient colleagues in other departments. I don't pretend there is any easy solution to these conflicts. Often for me, a 'B-' on an essay (I make students write often in this short form) is accompanied by copious annotation, explaining in great detail, sentence by sentence, why this assignment is not very good. It's certainly a compromise, but perhaps the student learns more than I did as an undergrad and grad student, when almost every paper simply had a grade on it. Period. But judging from my long reading of this list and my own experience, the results are not all bad. Many of you are very innovative and creative--that's obvious. This certainly was not true of my undergraduate experience (at an "elite Ivy League school"). And these pressures have forced us (if this is not too strong a word) to become much more hands-on in our teaching (also not true of my undergraduate experience). Surely our students benefit from this intensive personal attention. And they almost always appreciate these demonstrations of genuine interest in their academic growth. Surely most of you have seen this in your student evaluations. These students can be reached. I had a terrific experience last semester in my nineteenth-century Russian literature course. And they bring new strengths which can be utilized: I regularly teach a film course, and am often astounded by their visual memories. And our Russian program is quite stable and even growing a bit: we have more Russian majors than ever before in my experience (since the mid-seventies). I am especially indebted here to the energy and creativity of my young colleague, Laura Kline, who has found multiple ways to help me in engaging and holding the interest of Wayne State students--not in huge numbers, but enough to keep us stable and out of danger. And more recently, Rachel Harrell has contributed similar energies to our program. It can be done, and I am confident that many of you are doing so successfully. The problems we have been discussing are real, although I doubt that anyone is giving up. But I would urge you to fight your administrations with vigor and tenacity whenever they impose corporate values on the academic process. The value of what we do is incommensurate with that bottom-line mentality. Cheers! Ken Brostrom Kenneth Brostrom Assoc. Prof. of Russian Dept. of German and Slavic Studies 443 Manoogian Hall Wayne State University Detroit, MI 48202 Telephone: (313) 577-6238 FAX (313) 577-3266 E-mail: kenneth.brostrom at wayne.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From merlin at H2.HUM.HUJI.AC.IL Fri Jun 9 15:22:17 2000 From: merlin at H2.HUM.HUJI.AC.IL (merlin) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:22:17 +0300 Subject: looking for the reference Message-ID: Could anybody give the reference of the quotation: "V Rossii dva neschastja - duraki i dorogi"?. Thanks in advance, Valery Merlin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tanessi at IFA.AMU.EDU.PL Fri Jun 9 16:45:55 2000 From: tanessi at IFA.AMU.EDU.PL (Thomas Anessi) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:45:55 +0200 Subject: Odp: academia Message-ID: >How about the ecstasy about the new world's descovery: "Student-centered > >(good guys) as opposed to teacher-centered education" ( the latter is for > >bad guys - to be teacher-centered is almost like commiting a crime). > > > >"There is a paradigm shift from teacher-controlled to student-controlled, > >self-paced learning". Teacher is a peer, a friend, a consultant. A catalyst. > >I know, I am being "politically incorrect". But I believe there is no such > >thing as "student-centered" or "teacher-centered" teaching. > > >There is poor teaching and there is good teaching. In response to the above statement, I would like to add a note in favor of the "politically correct" (I suppose) notion of "student centred" learning. In teaching in both the U.S. and Poland, I have found that shifting responsibility from the teacher to the student in the use of a foreign language in class is very useful. By lessening the teacher's "control" over the course of particular classroom acticvites, one tends to create a more active and dynamic classroom atmosphere. What has been done in ESL/EFL in communicative learning offers excellent examples of how the role of the teacher can be effectively shifted toward a support role in many classroom situations. I feel that all types of instruction have their place, depending on the student, instructor, goal, etc. What worries me, though, are attacks on very general principles, such as "student-oriented" or "teacher-oriented", especially when replaced by euphemistic expressions like "good teaching". I did indeed appreciate the sheer brilliance displayed by some of the more old-fashioned or traditionalist professors I had in my days as a student, but I did tend to resent being "fed" knowledge that I could find in a book myself. I know this is probably a poor example of "teacher-centredness," but my point is that if 30 thinking human beings are in a room together exploring an issue, the fewer people involved in steering the course of activities, the more likely most are not fully engaged. For me, "poor teaching" is whatever fails to engage the intellectual facilities of the students, no matter what types of teaching are involved. thomas anessi tanessi at ifa.amu.edu.pl Uniwersytet im. Adama Mickiewicza Poznan, Poland ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mclaughlin.77 at OSU.EDU Fri Jun 9 17:00:07 2000 From: mclaughlin.77 at OSU.EDU (Danielle McLaughlin) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 13:00:07 -0400 Subject: The Kenneth E. Naylor Young Scholar's Prize in South Slavic and Balkan Linguistics Message-ID: ******RE-ANNOUNCING****** The Kenneth E. Naylor Young Scholar's Prize in South Slavic and Balkan Linguistics NOTE: We have altered the eligibility criteria slightly (from ABD to 'advanced graduate student' status', i.e. beyond the first year of study) and are thus extending the deadline to SEPTEMBER 15. We look forward to submissions from interested parties. In memory of Kenneth E. Naylor, Balkanist and South Slavic linguist par excellence, the Naylor Professorship in South Slavic Linguistics in the Department of Slavic and East European Languages and Literatures at The Ohio State University has established a prize of $500 for the best unpublished paper by a young scholar on a topic in Balkan or South Slavic linguistics. We thus solicit papers written in English by young scholars -- defined for this competition as an advanced graduate student (who is beyond his/her first year of study) or someone who is no more than three years beyond the awarding of the Ph.D. degree at the time of submission -- that treats some topic either in Balkan linguistics, taking a comparative approach and treating at least two languages of Southeastern Europe, or in any of the South Slavic languages on their own or in relation to the other languages. In order to be eligible, the submitted paper must be unpublished, and not under consideration for publication at the time of submission; however, papers that have appeared in an issue of a "Working Papers" series are still eligible for consideration in the competition. Those that have appeared in conference proceedings volumes of any sort are not eligible, unless they are substantially revised and/or expanded. Written versions of papers that have been presented at a conference are eligible, as are chapters of dissertations. In all cases, however, the Committee will look for self-contained scholarly articles of publishable quality that treat some relevant topic (as spelled out above) in an interesting and insightful way, following any appropriate approach (historical, synchronic, sociolinguistic, etc.) and any theoretical framework. Interested scholars should submit four copies of the paper along with an abstract (no longer than 250 words) and a cover sheet with the title of the paper, the author's name, affiliation, mailing address, e-mail address, phone and fax numbers, date of General Examination or Ph.D. (as the case may be), and social security number, to: Naylor Prize Competition Dept. of Slavic and East European Languages and Literatures 232 Cunz Hall The Ohio State University Columbus, Ohio USA 43210. The deadline for receipt of the papers in the Department for the first competition is SEPTEMBER 15, 2000. The Screening Committee, consisting of the Naylor Professor and former speakers in the annual Kenneth E. Naylor Memorial Lecture series, expects to make the announcement of the winner by December 1, 2000. The winning paper will be published in an issue of the journal Balkanistica. The Committee reserves the right not to award the Prize in a given year. Please address any inquiries to the Naylor Professor, Brian D. Joseph, at the above address or via e-mail at joseph.1 at osu.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Jun 9 17:01:48 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 12:01:48 -0500 Subject: Odp: academia Message-ID: > > In response to the above statement, I would like to add a note in favor of > the "politically correct" > (I suppose) notion of "student centred" learning. In teaching in both the > U.S. and Poland, I have > found that shifting responsibility from the teacher to the student in the > use of a foreign language in > class is very useful. By lessening the teacher's "control" over the course > of particular classroom acticvites, > one tends to create a more active and dynamic classroom atmosphere. What > has been done in ESL/EFL > in communicative learning offers excellent examples of how the role of the > teacher can be effectively shifted > toward a support role in many classroom situations. > I feel that all types of instruction have their place, depending on the > student, instructor, goal, etc. > What worries me, though, are attacks on very general principles, such as > "student-oriented" or "teacher-oriented", > especially when replaced by euphemistic expressions like "good teaching". I > did indeed appreciate the sheer > brilliance displayed by some of the more old-fashioned or traditionalist > professors I had in my days as a student, > but I did tend to resent being "fed" knowledge that I could find in a book > myself. I know this is probably a poor > example of "teacher-centredness," but my point is that if 30 thinking human > beings are in a room together exploring an issue, > the fewer people involved in steering the course of activities, the more > likely most are not fully engaged. > For me, "poor teaching" is whatever fails to engage the intellectual > facilities of the students, no matter what types of teaching > are involved. That's exactly the point I was making. Too much teacher control or too much student "freedom" are both detrimental. I was disappointed when I saw the way a couple of teachers taught Russian at a fairly good college. They actually LECTURED about Russian. When they asked a question, they would never call anybody. They expected that someone would answer. Those who would answer were a couple of people. All the others were just sitting and listening (or not listening). There is a false understanding of "student centeredness". Being "student-centered" does not preclude from strict control on the part of the teacher. All the students should be given equal attention and control. As I said, teaching is not supposed to be instructive. Creating conditions in which students will learn a language easily is what teachers are supposed to do. A good degree of control is just one of such conditions. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yoffe at GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU Fri Jun 9 21:18:34 2000 From: yoffe at GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU (Mark Yoffe) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:18:34 -0400 Subject: Singer/Songwriter -- please help Message-ID: Colleagues, In hope that some of you might know: There is a popular Russian hippie singer/songwriter Ol'ga Aref'eva, who works in Moscow. Performs with gruppa Kovcheg. In bibliographic authority file she is cross-referenced as certain Ol'ga Sitnova (who is a poet and a writer living in the city of Kimry not far from Moscow). Is this the same person? And if so which is her real name -- Sitnova or Aref'eva? Please advise. Thanks in advance. Mark -- Mark Yoffe, Ph.D. Curator, International Counterculture Archive Slavic Librarian, The George Washington University, Washington, D.C. HTTP://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~yoffe E-mail: yoffe at gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Phone: 202 994-6303 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Fri Jun 9 22:22:15 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 15:22:15 -0700 Subject: Lem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I work mainly with early 19th century British foreign relations, which impinge upon American social attitudes relating to the War of 1812, and the opinion of the British press at that time was that lack of respect for intellectualism was a fundamental trait of American society. -Martha Sherwood- On Thu, 8 Jun 2000, Leslie Farmer wrote: > In a message dated 6/9/0 3:17:11 AM, p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU writes: > > << one thing is for sure: intellectualism is not > > in fashion in the US now >> > > Come to think of it, when if ever WAS it? I 've been around for almost half a > century and I don't remember a time (or hearing of a time) when the US as a > whole valued intellectuals. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Jun 9 22:42:36 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:42:36 -0500 Subject: Lem Message-ID: > I work mainly with early 19th century British foreign relations, which > impinge upon American social attitudes relating to the War of 1812, and > the opinion of the British press at that time was that lack of respect for > intellectualism was a fundamental trait of American society. -Martha > Sherwood- Persons hitting a ball with a stick and persons throwing a ball into a basket earn hundreds and even thousands times more than persons who teach at school or university (Nobel Prize winners including). Sometimes the former stab a couple of people to death and get away with it, but this is already a different story... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Sat Jun 10 00:19:33 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 17:19:33 -0700 Subject: Lem In-Reply-To: <000801bfd264$02727000$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: I think the bottom line here is something we can all see, and that is that it was the character of those who came to North America to settle that shaped the character of today's North Americans. Intellectualism wouldn't have helped the earliest pioneers much (not that hitting a ball with a stick would have been much more useful :). They had other skills that were more useful. The same principle can be applied to the (general) differences between Americans and Canadians - those who declared independence from Britain were a different bunch from the Loyalists who came north to Canada. Not that this is my specialty, by any means, but in general terms it explains a lot. > Persons hitting a ball with a stick and persons throwing a ball into a > basket earn hundreds and even thousands times more than persons who teach > at school or university (Nobel Prize winners including). Not that I don't agree with you, but one could also say that it is a strange phenomenon that sitting in an office studying "useless" things (such as Russian literature) and propagating these ideas to students makes more money than growing food, building homes or any other trades. Have a good weekend, Kat _________ And soon all of us will sleep under the earth, we who never let each other sleep above it. - Marina Ivanovna Tsvetaeva, 1915 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Sat Jun 10 01:25:07 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:25:07 +0900 Subject: Yurij Lotoshko - seeking his e-mail address In-Reply-To: <20000609.063524.-403721.1.simplify3@juno.com> (message from Kenneth E Udut on Fri, 9 Jun 2000 06:29:37 -0400) Message-ID: Julij Lotoshko left the teaching profession three years go, lived in Tver' for sometime, but haven't heard anything about him from locals. Breaking into syllables and etc. is an easy task that any one can do, but assigning a correct pronunciation involves syntax parsing, which is not an easy job. You need to install some parsing modules from ABBYY. Sorry, cannot help you much. Tsuji ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Sat Jun 10 03:23:06 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 20:23:06 -0700 Subject: Lem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is rather off the thread of this list, so I appologize. My family history includes several Anglican clergymen who served in the colonies before the Revolutionary war; they were not perhaps intellectuals, but they were much better educated than the average settler. I havn't been able to get any statistics, but transportation and involuntary servitude of people convicted of petty crimes was certainly widespread in the colonies in the 17th and 18th centuries. --MAS- On Fri, 9 Jun 2000, Kat Tancock wrote: > I think the bottom line here is something we can all see, and that is that > it was the character of those who came to North America to settle that > shaped the character of today's North Americans. Intellectualism wouldn't > have helped the earliest pioneers much (not that hitting a ball with a stick > would have been much more useful :). They had other skills that were more > useful. > > The same principle can be applied to the (general) differences between > Americans and Canadians - those who declared independence from Britain were > a different bunch from the Loyalists who came north to Canada. > > Not that this is my specialty, by any means, but in general terms it > explains a lot. > > > Persons hitting a ball with a stick and persons throwing a ball into a > > basket earn hundreds and even thousands times more than persons who teach > > at school or university (Nobel Prize winners including). > > Not that I don't agree with you, but one could also say that it is a strange > phenomenon that sitting in an office studying "useless" things (such as > Russian literature) and propagating these ideas to students makes more money > than growing food, building homes or any other trades. > > Have a good weekend, > > Kat > > _________ > > And soon all of us will sleep under the earth, we > who never let each other sleep above it. > > - Marina Ivanovna Tsvetaeva, 1915 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From simplify3 at JUNO.COM Sat Jun 10 04:07:35 2000 From: simplify3 at JUNO.COM (Kenneth E Udut) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:07:35 -0400 Subject: Yurij Lotoshko - seeking his e-mail address Message-ID: You're quite right - it is quite easy - I simply followed what I found in "A Complete Russian Grammar", put together a massive search/replace setup, and whammo, Im able to break a text into mostly okay syllable breaks. [it needs some tweaking, but for my own purposes, it works]. Basically, I'm trying to remember certain combinations of words that give me trouble, by setting them to songs that I am familiar with. To do that, I needed to be able to break the text into syllables, so that, for example, if the song I was setting the text has a pattern of 8 notes, 6 notes, 8 notes, 7 notes (a common pattern), now I'm able to do that, even though, for example, the thing I put together mistakenly breaks up a simple word like "ona" as "on-a" (I haven't figured out how to properly break up the initial syllable, but then again, I've only worked on it for a couple of hours while at work, while doing 'real work' :-) ). Correct pronounciation demarked isnt as important for me - I kind of have an intuitive sense for most pronounciation changes now - and I'm starting to get a 'sense' for where stress goes, even when I'm not sure. I've got a long way to go, but it's getting there. -Kenneth > Breaking into syllables and etc. is an easy task that any one can > do, > but assigning a correct pronunciation involves syntax parsing, which > is > not an easy job. You need to install some parsing modules from > ABBYY. > Sorry, cannot help you much. > > Tsuji ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Sat Jun 10 04:43:52 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:43:52 +0900 Subject: Yurij Lotoshko - seeking his e-mail address In-Reply-To: <20000610.000757.-417923.0.simplify3@juno.com> (message from Kenneth E Udut on Sat, 10 Jun 2000 00:07:35 -0400) Message-ID: Breaking a word over lines and breaking a word into syllables are totally different matters. The former is a typographer's rule, while the latter is all too simple: split after every vowel, if the last sound is not a vowel, combine it with the penultimate part. Forget rare cases when a sonorant consonant becomes a syllable on its own. There will be different interpretations as to whether to split after a hard sign or not, but never mind: people ignore it in rapid speech any way. Cheers, Tsuji ------- I often hear <> in stead of <> in rapid speech. I wonder if this phenomenon is described in famous books. Any advice is appreciated. (15 is pjetnAcat', incidentally). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From simplify3 at JUNO.COM Sat Jun 10 05:33:19 2000 From: simplify3 at JUNO.COM (Kenneth E Udut) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 01:33:19 -0400 Subject: Yurij Lotoshko - seeking his e-mail address Message-ID: Yes - it's just syllable stuff I'm working with. It explains why I had so much trouble finding detailed information on syllable-breaks (not line breaks) - because it was just quite simple. It only took me a very short time to automate making the breaks (it's three search/repace operations: 1 goes from a list of vowels, vowel sonant, vowel sonant softsign etc, and replaces those various things with unique codes, within the text. 2 takes the codes and turn them back into visual syllable breaks (a simple "-") 3 One final search/replace does a little cleanup. (a word like govorit' would break up like go-vor-i-t' so I'd clean up all ending consonants (a dash, consonant and a space, as well as a dash, a consonant, a soft sign and a space, and get rid of the dash). And that was it. Works well. Surprisingly easy. And best of all, I'm able to do the thing I hoped to do. Ideally, I want to work towards getting my brain to take advantage of the 'din in the head' - the 'voice in the brain' - the 'inner chatter' - the one you have talking without any control. You see, while I am at work, I have hours and hours of time that the 'chatter' is going on its own. A song like "Que, sera sera, whatever will be will be..." for example, may 'bounce around' in my head for hours. It's time that could be spent doing some sort of semi-conscious language practice. The way I'm hoping to do this is to set various texts to music, to tunes I am familiar with, and listen and repeat, listen and repeat simultaneously, when I have free time - then, my hope is that my brain will 'hook in' to it while I am writing reports in Microsoft Excel at work, and be doing *something* with learning Russian. If it works, then that's 7 or 8 hours of extra language learning time that otherwise would be wasted each day. A potential of 35-40 hrs a week extra language learning. That's how I am thinking anyhow. I'm sure someone has done it before, but I haven't found much on it yet. -Kenneth On Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:43:52 +0900 Yoshimasa Tsuji writes: > Breaking a word over lines and breaking a word into syllables > are totally different matters. The former is a typographer's rule, > while the latter is all too simple: split after every vowel, if the > last sound is not a vowel, combine it with the penultimate part. > Forget rare cases when a sonorant consonant becomes a syllable > on its own. There will be different interpretations as to whether > to split after a hard sign or not, but never mind: people ignore > it in rapid speech any way. > > Cheers, > Tsuji ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From chaput at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sat Jun 10 11:09:45 2000 From: chaput at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Patricia Chaput) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:09:45 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The author of _English Grammar for Students of Russian_ wasn't mentioned. It is Edwina Cruse. >From previous posting: We have used this book (English Grammar for Students of Russian) in our first-year Russian course for several years now (it has variants for been quite good. This little book's greatest virtue is that it can eliminate the need to discuss elementary grammatical terms (e.g., subject, objects, predicates, the parts of speech, etc.), leaving more class time for work with Russian. It's available from the Olivia and Hill Press in Ann Arbor, MI. Pat Chaput Harvard University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Mourka1 at AOL.COM Sat Jun 10 13:44:36 2000 From: Mourka1 at AOL.COM (Mourka1 at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 09:44:36 EDT Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, Whew, it took me over an hour to read all the "why nots", and then somebody mentioned, God forbid, "rap". The truth is, my truth, anyway, and I feel that I am a fairly successful language teacher (A Russian emigre and certified in Russian, ESL and French) is that to get kids attention these days (and it is difficult), I must make my lessons relevent to these kids lives. Currently I teach 7, 8 and 9th grade French in an inner city school. Notice how kids remember every word in their R&B songs and raps? The words are rather intricate and often difficult to say. I do the same. I use French rap and Russian rap. The kids learn them and love them. A true story: Thanksgiving dinner with the whole family and the family asks the child the old question, "what language he is taking and would he say a few words", not expecting much. The 9th grader preceded to recite my entire rap and the guests nearly fell off their chairs. I have a professional theatre background which helps me to sing and dance through class, however, I think that generally, rhythm helps language learning. I use rhythm with everything--grammar points particularly. The kids remember everything. I don't believe this idea is limited to elementary and secondary schools. I've taught at the college level as well and I've taught adults and everybody enjoys it and memorizes things without knowing. I never used a book when I taught Russian in high school. I found most books extremely dry. I used games, raps, songs, culture and lots and lots of communacative interaction relevant to their lives. In short, at least at the beginning level, language learning needs to be enjoyable and fun or else it is deadly. Particularly for Americans for all the reasons that you have already mentioned. Thank you for reading. Mourka ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Sat Jun 10 17:03:56 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:03:56 -0700 Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian In-Reply-To: <1e.66027ef.2673a044@aol.com> Message-ID: Oh, you're so right! Cheesy pop music works great too, and it's great for lower levels, because the vocab terms aren't too complex. I think it would be fun to make a tape of Russian music etc. (poetry could even be included) a compulsory part of a course, like a textbook. By the end of the class the goal would be to have made it through the whole tape (hopefully memorizing the whole thing as well). Another good thing about music is students don't get as bored with it when it is listened to repeatedly. I have to say, I read Stantsionnyj Smotritel' so many times through my degree, in at least three variants, that I can barely stand the story now! (Sorry, Pushkin). Another thing we read a lot was Chekhov's "comedies" - which weren't nearly as funny when it took you ten times as long to get through the story than he intended. Kat > From: Mourka1 at AOL.COM > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 09:44:36 EDT > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian > > Dear Seelangers, > > Whew, it took me over an hour to read all the "why nots", and then somebody > mentioned, God forbid, "rap". > > The truth is, my truth, anyway, and I feel that I am a fairly successful > language teacher (A Russian emigre and certified in Russian, ESL and French) > is that to get kids attention these days (and it is difficult), I must make > my lessons relevent to these kids lives. Currently I teach 7, 8 and 9th > grade French in an inner city school. > > Notice how kids remember every word in their R&B songs and raps? The words > are rather intricate and often difficult to say. I do the same. I use > French rap and Russian rap. The kids learn them and love them. > > A true story: Thanksgiving dinner with the whole family and the family asks > the child the old question, "what language he is taking and would he say a > few words", not expecting much. The 9th grader preceded to recite my entire > rap and the guests nearly fell off their chairs. > > I have a professional theatre background which helps me to sing and dance > through class, however, I think that generally, rhythm helps language > learning. I use rhythm with everything--grammar points particularly. The > kids remember everything. > > I don't believe this idea is limited to elementary and secondary schools. > I've taught at the college level as well and I've taught adults and everybody > enjoys it and memorizes things without knowing. I never used a book when I > taught Russian in high school. I found most books extremely dry. I used > games, raps, songs, culture and lots and lots of communacative interaction > relevant to their lives. > > In short, at least at the beginning level, language learning needs to be > enjoyable and fun or else it is deadly. Particularly for Americans for all > the reasons that you have already mentioned. > > Thank you for reading. > > Mourka > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Sat Jun 10 17:10:17 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:10:17 -0500 Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian Message-ID: > Oh, you're so right! Cheesy pop music works great too, and it's great for > lower levels, because the vocab terms aren't too complex. I think it would > be fun to make a tape of Russian music etc. (poetry could even be included) > a compulsory part of a course, like a textbook. By the end of the class the > goal would be to have made it through the whole tape (hopefully memorizing > the whole thing as well). > > Another good thing about music is students don't get as bored with it when > it is listened to repeatedly. I have to say, I read Stantsionnyj Smotritel' > so many times through my degree, in at least three variants, that I can > barely stand the story now! (Sorry, Pushkin). Another thing we read a lot > was Chekhov's "comedies" - which weren't nearly as funny when it took you > ten times as long to get through the story than he intended. > > Kat In my practice I took advantage of my students' interest to action movies and other unsophisticated fun stuff. No, I did not shoot movies. But I wrote a catching story full of suspence. I lead the main character through lots of adventures as well as the whole Russian grammar, words of motion and idioms. The story was broken down into small pieces, each ending in suspence. I tape recorded the story with my Russian speaking friends, mixing it with music and some sound effects (wind, gunshots, police sirens, etc.). The students received a tape for every single home assignments and were supposed to either transcribe the piece or answer the questions to the piece (to control listening comprehension). In class more exercises followed. The beauty of this was that the idioms and grammar were studied in the context of the whole story, and listening comprehension skills developed rapidly. Besides, students were always anxious to know what would follow. (In some cases I invited them to continue). Now I am working on putting the story online. The same thing, but I don't have to take care of cassettes, and the exercices can be done online with the help option, with hyperlinks to some Russian sites and lots and lots of more fun stuff!!!!!!!!!!! If you are interested, I can give you more details. This is fun and it works! With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From trwilliams at DAVIDSON.EDU Sat Jun 10 17:17:27 2000 From: trwilliams at DAVIDSON.EDU (Williams, Troy) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 13:17:27 -0400 Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian Message-ID: I too have found pop music very useful in the classroom. Because of the simple vocab and the (ad nauseum) repetition of that limited vocabulary, I have found that students enjoy transcribing songs. Of course they don't get all the lyrics, but they are proud of what they do manage to pull out of the songs. I usually give them a tape with 5-10 songs and let them choose something which interests them. At the end of the semester, they often present the lyrics (with their translation) to the class. Troy ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Sat Jun 10 17:48:41 2000 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 18:48:41 +0100 Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian Message-ID: Dear Mourka, You write: "I have a professional theatre background which helps me to sing and dance through class, however, I think that generally, rhythm helps language learning. I use rhythm with everything--grammar points particularly. The kids remember everything." Your lessons sound brilliant, and your students are to be envied. I just want to add that your methods are curiously similar to the way Greek and Latin used to be taught in the top British private schools. Teachers used hundreds of little silly rhymes to help their students remember Grammatical rules. Yes, rhythm rules! Best Wishes, Robert Chandler ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pyz at PANIX.COM Sat Jun 10 19:07:26 2000 From: pyz at PANIX.COM (pyz at PANIX.COM) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:07:26 -0400 Subject: Victor Pelevin Message-ID: Has anyone heard of the author mentioned in the subject line? (he was featured in an article in the New York Times Magazine on 1/23/00). Further, have any of his books been translated and published in English? Last, are there any authors like him in style and content in Ukraine writing in either Russian or Ukrainian? Thanks! Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at HOME.COM Sat Jun 10 19:36:08 2000 From: asred at HOME.COM (Steve Marder) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:36:08 -0400 Subject: Victor Pelevin Message-ID: > Has anyone heard of the author mentioned in the subject line? (he was > featured in an article in the New York Times Magazine on 1/23/00). In certain circles, Pelevin just has to be one of the hottest names around at the moment! In a recent review of Pelevin's "Buddha's Little Finger," the reviewer refers to the author as "the sharpest, most astute and darkly witty Russian writer today." > Further, have any of his books been translated and published in English? Check out the following URL, and then search for "Pelevin": http://lib.ru:8106/ You can then choose whatever encoding -- koi-win-iso-lat-iso-mac -- you desire. The Pelevin section contains much of interest, mostly in Russian, but there is also material in English translation. (I haven't read any of the latter and so cannot comment on the quality of the translations.) > Last, are there any authors like him in style and content in Ukraine writing in > either Russian or Ukrainian? I will pass on this one. Steve Marder ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at HOME.COM Sat Jun 10 19:41:42 2000 From: asred at HOME.COM (Steve Marder) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 15:41:42 -0400 Subject: Victor Pelevin Message-ID: > You can then choose whatever encoding -- koi-win-iso-lat-iso-mac -- One of the duplicate "iso" references should read "alt". Sorry about that. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From esjogren at NC.RR.COM Sat Jun 10 16:50:15 2000 From: esjogren at NC.RR.COM (Ernie Sjogren) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 16:50:15 -0000 Subject: Victor Pelevin Message-ID: Hi, Should you care to read Pelevin's work, it is available online. For instance: http://lib.ru/PELEWIN/ (most of his books, some essays, a bibliography, non-academic criticism, &c) There's a good deal of info on the web about him, if you wish to become familiar w/ his writing or read about him: http://www.zhurnal.ru/PR/pelevin.htm (a couple of interesting links) http://www.ozon.ru/detail.cfm/ent=11&ptn=1&ID=15442 (interview) http://www.magister.msk.ru/encyclop/sf/sf_aut1.htm# (an article, from the _Encyclopedia of Fantasika_). . . . and plenty more. Use any of the Russian language search engines. His books are available from the online Russian bookstores. Regards, Ernie Sjogren ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, June 10, 2000 7:07 PM Subject: Victor Pelevin > Has anyone heard of the author mentioned in the subject line? > (he was featured in an article in the New York Times Magazine > on 1/23/00). > > Further, have any of his books been translated and published > in English? > > Last, are there any authors like him in style and content > in Ukraine writing in either Russian or Ukrainian? > > Thanks! > > > > Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine > pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Wwdslovene at AOL.COM Sat Jun 10 22:34:16 2000 From: Wwdslovene at AOL.COM (Wwdslovene at AOL.COM) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 18:34:16 EDT Subject: Berberova Message-ID: In a message dated 00-06-08 13:15:23 EDT, Alina Israeli wrote: << Berberova whose centenary is being celebrated in the announced conference, in her eighties refused to watch movies. >> I must respectfully disagree with Prof. Israeli's assertion about Nina Berberova. Ms. Berberova and I very close friends for more than 30 years before her death in 1993. When she was younger she was in fact an avid fan of movies, and she particularly enjoyed French avant-garde films. There used to be a theater on the outskirts of Princeton which specialized in foreign films, and Ms. Berberova went there not infrequently. In the last decade of her life Ms. Berberova slowed down considerably and did not go to the movies often, in addition to which she lost some interest in doing so. This was replaced by TV, and to the end she watched the evening news and kept abreast of current events. And, yes, sometimes she even watched films on her TV! It is true, however, that in an interview for *Vanity Fair* with Joan Buck she made a comment about not going to the movies. That must be taken in the context of her health and ability to move about easily. (She stopped driving several years before her death.) William W. Derbyshire, Seattle, WA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Sat Jun 10 23:10:19 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 19:10:19 -0400 Subject: Berberova Message-ID: >In a message dated 00-06-08 13:15:23 EDT, Alina Israeli wrote: ><< Berberova whose centenary is being celebrated in the announced >conference, > in her eighties refused to watch movies. >> > > I must respectfully disagree with Prof. Israeli's assertion about Nina >Berberova. >Ms. Berberova and I very close friends for more than 30 years before her >death >in 1993. When she was younger she was in fact an avid fan of movies, I should have said probably "Russian movies" (I don't know about the rest) and I did say "in her eighties". My information is not from an interview but from herself. ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWU.EDU Sun Jun 11 11:04:57 2000 From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 07:04:57 -0400 Subject: Whining about our students Message-ID: "E. Boyle" wrote: > So I suggest we stop moaning about the sorry state of American culture (an > opinion I don't share), stop whining about how "kids today" are completely > uncultured (they are not) I completely agree with Eloise. Each successive generation complains about the sorry state of "kids today." And sure, I have my stock of horror stories of kids who can't define an adverb or can't name the capital of Poland. But for each horror story, there are many more success stories. I find that contrary to 20 years ago, I can rely on having students who can say intelligible things at the end of a basic sequence in Russian. Some of that is because we teach differently than we did back then. But students' ability to acquire some sort of useful proficiency testifies to the fact that their language learning skills overall have not gone into the sort of tailspin that many others see. As for the larger global issues of literacy, literature, and culture: sure, I'm concerned that we may arrive at a time when students don't read more than a screen at a time and that for them research amounts to doing key word searches and cut-pasting the appropriate quotes. But then I think back to my own Russian teacher who theatrically expressed his dismay that we came to Russian without a previous background in Latin. E. D. Hirsch aside, the syllabus of cultural literacy syllabus with generations and technology. No one in 1930 would have dreamed that film could be a part of a part of cultural literacy. The fluidity of what counts as cultural literacy comes through very nicely in "Tarzan's New York Adventure" (1942), in which the Johnny Weissmuller character finds himself being cross-examined in a New York courtroom (I'm quoting from childhood memory): Plaintiff's attorney: Can you read? Tarzan: Read? Plaintiff's attorney: Yes, you know, read a book... Tarzan: Can lawyer read trail in jungle? - R. Robin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From alancarmack at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Sun Jun 11 13:34:15 2000 From: alancarmack at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Joseph Alan Carmack) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 09:34:15 -0400 Subject: A word on pedagogy Message-ID: The key to teaching anything is to remember what it was like not to understand that thing. That's a very hard thing to do. Every time you come to understand something you didn't understand before, you are transformed. You become a different person from who you were before. The key to teaching someone else to understand that same thing is to remember your former, untransformed self. If you can do that, I think you can teach anything, even physics. David Goodstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.brostrom at WAYNE.EDU Sun Jun 11 15:52:03 2000 From: kenneth.brostrom at WAYNE.EDU (Kenneth Brostrom) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 11:52:03 -0400 Subject: A word on pedagogy Message-ID: A language-teaching specialist, whose name I can no longer recall, passed on the following piece of advice to me and a group of my colleagues: "Every language teacher should begin the study of a new language every five years, just to remember what it's like." >The key to teaching anything is to remember what it was like >not to understand that thing. That's a very hard thing to do. >Every time you come to understand something you didn't >understand before, you are transformed. You become a >different person from who you were before. The key to teaching >someone else to understand that same thing is to remember >your former, untransformed self. If you can do that, I think you >can teach anything, even physics. > > David Goodstein > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- Kenneth Brostrom Assoc. Prof. of Russian Dept. of German and Slavic Studies 443 Manoogian Hall Wayne State University Detroit, MI 48202 Telephone: (313) 577-6238 FAX (313) 577-3266 E-mail: kenneth.brostrom at wayne.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bougakov at MAIL.RU Sun Jun 11 17:03:02 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 21:03:02 +0400 Subject: Victor Pelevin Message-ID: Hello, Max Pelevin is famous modern Russian writer, his books are very interesting but a little bit hard to read even for Russians. He writes good essays and novels with interesting commixture of reality and fiction - try to read his works and you will see it. Some of his works can probably be found at http://lib.ru (at "Moshkov's electronic library" - by the way, this collection is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED for all SEELANGERS, who are interested in reading Russian texts - it contains about 1Gb of plain text. For comparsion, Shakespeare wrote only 8Mbytes of plain text for all his life. To my regret this library was created by the real UNIX-guru, so the site's design is very poor.) As far as I remember, there was a website www.pelevin.ru dedicated to his works, but it was "under construction" for a very long time and I don't know in what conditions is it now. If you want to read some of his works, start with "Жёлтая стрела" ("Zheltaya strela"), "?????? и Шестипалый" ("?????? i Schestypalyj" - sorry, I don't remember the exact name of this novell) and his major work - "Generation ' П ' " ("Generation ' P ' " - p means Pepsi). Better don't read "Чапаев и Пустота" ("Chapaev i Pustota"), "Омон Ра" ("Omon Ra") и "Жизнь насекомых" ("Zhisn' nasekomyh") in the beginning or don't read them at all - they are really diffcult to read. Sincerely yours, Alexandre Bougakov Student of the sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My website is http://SocioLink.narod.ru/ (thousands of sociology related links on the Web - in Russian, Microsoft Internet Explorer 4 or higher is required) My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) P.S. Dear list, have you heard about Boris Akunin's detective stories? This new series of books about young detective Erast Fandorin describing Russia in the second half of the 19th century was the real opening in Moscow this year. You know, now there is lots of bad detective stories published in Russia last ten years, and people were really bored with this trash - so the books describing the best periods of Russian history, written in very good language have had massive success by that people, who, as the author himself said, "brush their teeth every day and don't vote for Zhirinovsky". If 98-99 were Pelevin's years in good literature, 2000 will be the year of Boris Akunin. You can read more about it at the "Russian Journal" website at http://www.russ.ru/krug/20000127_d.html. By the way, this is No.1 site to start searching something related to modern Russian literature and cultural events. By the way, this series can be interesting for those, who are discussing the teaching of Russian: > But I wrote a catching story full of suspence. > I lead the main character through lots of > adventures as well as the whole Russian > grammar, words of motion and idioms. When I was studying English, my teacher advised me to read Agatha Cristie's detectives. Give Akunin's books to your students to teach them Russian - it may be helpful and effective since these stories have lots of action, good "classic" (but not boring) speech and facts from history and everyday life. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Sun Jun 11 21:57:00 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 14:57:00 -0700 Subject: Whining about our students In-Reply-To: <39437259.9C4E148F@gwu.edu> Message-ID: Having a basic knowledge of Latin was definitely helpful in learning Russian at the age of 36. The teachers I had who'd studied at Russian pedagogical institutes knew how to teach. The teaching assistants who were put in the classroom after a three day workshop in language teaching, heavy on how to run a VCR and do all the paperwork were not. It isn't the students' fault. You can't learn what isn't taught, or is taught so poorly that only an exceptionally motivated student who goes out of his or her way to consult additional materials will really learn the subject. Kids today? I've got a 15 year old, a straight-A student who's currently on an exchange program in Thailand. (excuse the boasting). She's cynical, though. What will taking out all these student loans get me? If any increased income from getting a college degree is eaten up by repayment of loans, if indeed I would have a higher net income working as a checker at the supermarket, why bother? I don't have an answer. Perhaps she will be a famous author or discover a cure for cancer, but most likely she'll make a very small tally mark on the pages of history, if an at all, which, since she's my parents' only grandchild, is a high price to pay for not reproducing. Martha Sherwood On Sun, 11 Jun 2000, Richard Robin wrote: > "E. Boyle" wrote: > > > So I suggest we stop moaning about the sorry state of American culture (an > > opinion I don't share), stop whining about how "kids today" are completely > > uncultured (they are not) > > I completely agree with Eloise. Each successive generation complains about the > sorry state of "kids today." And sure, I have my stock of horror stories of > kids who can't define an adverb or can't name the capital of Poland. But for > each horror story, there are many more success stories. I find that contrary > to 20 years ago, I can rely on having students who can say intelligible things > at the end of a basic sequence in Russian. Some of that is because we teach > differently than we did back then. But students' ability to acquire some sort > of useful proficiency testifies to the fact that their language learning > skills overall have not gone into the sort of tailspin that many others see. > > As for the larger global issues of literacy, literature, and culture: sure, > I'm concerned that we may arrive at a time when students don't read more than > a screen at a time and that for them research amounts to doing key word > searches and cut-pasting the appropriate quotes. But then I think back to my > own Russian teacher who theatrically expressed his dismay that we came to > Russian without a previous background in Latin. > > E. D. Hirsch aside, the syllabus of cultural literacy syllabus with > generations and technology. No one in 1930 would have dreamed that film could > be a part of a part of cultural literacy. The fluidity of what counts as > cultural literacy comes through very nicely in "Tarzan's New York Adventure" > (1942), in which the Johnny Weissmuller character finds himself being > cross-examined in a New York courtroom (I'm quoting from childhood memory): > > Plaintiff's attorney: Can you read? > Tarzan: Read? > Plaintiff's attorney: Yes, you know, read a book... > Tarzan: Can lawyer read trail in jungle? > > - R. Robin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Sun Jun 11 23:41:05 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 18:41:05 -0500 Subject: Whining about our students Message-ID: > Having a basic knowledge of Latin was definitely helpful in learning > Russian at the age of 36. The teachers I had who'd studied at Russian > pedagogical institutes knew how to teach. The teaching assistants who were > put in the classroom after a three day workshop in language teaching, > heavy on how to run a VCR and do all the paperwork were not. It isn't the > students' fault. There is a great deal of controversy about the question who can teach a foreign language better: a native speaker or a non-native speaker who has learned the language him/herself. I believe if a person has been taught a foreign language in a systematic way, s/he will apply this system even when teaching this language or his/her own language. On the other hand, a native speaker who has never acquired any language other than his/her own will have big problems especially with beginners. Of course, with more experience these problems can be solved. But not always. As to the kids now... When I was a kid myself, single-parent kids were exceptional. They were pitied and regarded as poor things, deprived of something very dear... Now single-parent kids or kids having a second or a third father (mother) can be majority of a class. Does it mean that these kids learn not to have big commitments from the very beginning? I don't know. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Mon Jun 12 00:45:55 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 19:45:55 -0500 Subject: Whining about our students Message-ID: > > As for the larger global issues of literacy, literature, and culture: sure, > I'm concerned that we may arrive at a time when students don't read more than > a screen at a time and that for them research amounts to doing key word > searches and cut-pasting the appropriate quotes. We may. But why not create assignmnets (projects) using computers? How about creating a website of a writer, a poet, a collection of Russian jokes, songs you name it? It is creative, and students enjoy this work and learn a lot. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dwkaiser at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Mon Jun 12 03:28:00 2000 From: dwkaiser at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (David Kaiser) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 22:28:00 -0500 Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian In-Reply-To: <001c01bfd2fe$c086d050$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: I have to say, flipping past cheesy Spanish soap operas on cable makes me jealous. I wish it was that easy to find programming in Russian and Polish. Here in Chicago, one of the most Russian/Polish of cities in North America, inlanguage TV is hard to find, we get an hour a night in Polish and half hour in Russian, and I think that's probably better than anywhere in the US except NY. Does anyone know if there are foreign language channels on DirecTV or any other general satellite subscription service? We have Polish radio, which is great, even though its AM, but it would be nice if we had TV. UChicago has SCOLA, but I have to admit, it seems like a pain to use, we have to reserve time and have a cassette made for later use, etc, etc. It would be nice if it were possible to simply flip on a channel and hear Polish/Rusian/Czech, just like the Spanish students can. Any help? Dave Kaiser UofChicago At 12:10 PM 6/10/00 -0500, you wrote: >> Oh, you're so right! Cheesy pop music works great too, and it's great for >> lower levels, because the vocab terms aren't too complex. I think it would >> be fun to make a tape of Russian music etc. (poetry could even be >included) >> a compulsory part of a course, like a textbook. By the end of the class >the >> goal would be to have made it through the whole tape (hopefully memorizing >> the whole thing as well). >> >> Another good thing about music is students don't get as bored with it when >> it is listened to repeatedly. I have to say, I read Stantsionnyj >Smotritel' >> so many times through my degree, in at least three variants, that I can >> barely stand the story now! (Sorry, Pushkin). Another thing we read a lot >> was Chekhov's "comedies" - which weren't nearly as funny when it took you >> ten times as long to get through the story than he intended. >> >> Kat > >In my practice I took advantage of my students' interest to action movies >and other unsophisticated fun stuff. No, I did not shoot movies. But I wrote >a catching story full of suspence. I lead the main character through lots of >adventures as well as the whole Russian grammar, words of motion and idioms. >The story was broken down into small pieces, each ending in suspence. I tape >recorded the story with my Russian speaking friends, mixing it with music >and some sound effects (wind, gunshots, police sirens, etc.). The students >received a tape for every single home assignments and were supposed to >either transcribe the piece or answer the questions to the piece (to control >listening comprehension). In class more exercises followed. The beauty of >this was that the idioms and grammar were studied in the context of the >whole story, and listening comprehension skills developed rapidly. Besides, >students were always anxious to know what would follow. >(In some cases I invited them to continue). > >Now I am working on putting the story online. The same thing, but I don't >have to take care of cassettes, and the exercices can be done online with >the help option, with hyperlinks to some Russian sites and lots and lots of >more fun stuff!!!!!!!!!!! > >If you are interested, I can give you more details. This is fun and it >works! > >With compliments, > >Pavel (Paul) Samsonov >EDAD, College of Education, >Texas A&M University >tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) > (409) 862-9152 (home) >fax (409) 862-4347 >e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "A shared purpose did not claim my identity. On the contrary, it enlarged my sense of myself." Senator John McCain ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Mon Jun 12 04:02:27 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 21:02:27 -0700 Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian In-Reply-To: <200006120343.WAA03625@harper.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Well, hopefully in the future there will be more multilingual programming. One would think that in the age of the golf channel there would be at least as many viewers for a Slavic channel, even one channel for all of North America! One thing I love to show to students is the soap "do svidanya, leto" from the BBC Russian series - made sometime before I was born, I think! But it's still popular - it's easy to resurrect old videos these days, because the retro factor makes them popular with students. Kat > From: David Kaiser > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 22:28:00 -0500 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian > > I have to say, flipping past cheesy Spanish soap operas on cable makes me > jealous. I wish it was that easy to find programming in Russian and Polish. > Here in Chicago, one of the most Russian/Polish of cities in North America, > inlanguage TV is hard to find, we get an hour a night in Polish and half > hour in Russian, and I think that's probably better than anywhere in the US > except NY. Does anyone know if there are foreign language channels on > DirecTV or any other general satellite subscription service? We have Polish > radio, which is great, even though its AM, but it would be nice if we had > TV. UChicago has SCOLA, but I have to admit, it seems like a pain to use, > we have to reserve time and have a cassette made for later use, etc, etc. > It would be nice if it were possible to simply flip on a channel and hear > Polish/Rusian/Czech, just like the Spanish students can. Any help? > > Dave Kaiser > UofChicago > > > > > > At 12:10 PM 6/10/00 -0500, you wrote: >>> Oh, you're so right! Cheesy pop music works great too, and it's great for >>> lower levels, because the vocab terms aren't too complex. I think it would >>> be fun to make a tape of Russian music etc. (poetry could even be >> included) >>> a compulsory part of a course, like a textbook. By the end of the class >> the >>> goal would be to have made it through the whole tape (hopefully memorizing >>> the whole thing as well). >>> >>> Another good thing about music is students don't get as bored with it when >>> it is listened to repeatedly. I have to say, I read Stantsionnyj >> Smotritel' >>> so many times through my degree, in at least three variants, that I can >>> barely stand the story now! (Sorry, Pushkin). Another thing we read a lot >>> was Chekhov's "comedies" - which weren't nearly as funny when it took you >>> ten times as long to get through the story than he intended. >>> >>> Kat >> >> In my practice I took advantage of my students' interest to action movies >> and other unsophisticated fun stuff. No, I did not shoot movies. But I wrote >> a catching story full of suspence. I lead the main character through lots of >> adventures as well as the whole Russian grammar, words of motion and idioms. >> The story was broken down into small pieces, each ending in suspence. I tape >> recorded the story with my Russian speaking friends, mixing it with music >> and some sound effects (wind, gunshots, police sirens, etc.). The students >> received a tape for every single home assignments and were supposed to >> either transcribe the piece or answer the questions to the piece (to control >> listening comprehension). In class more exercises followed. The beauty of >> this was that the idioms and grammar were studied in the context of the >> whole story, and listening comprehension skills developed rapidly. Besides, >> students were always anxious to know what would follow. >> (In some cases I invited them to continue). >> >> Now I am working on putting the story online. The same thing, but I don't >> have to take care of cassettes, and the exercices can be done online with >> the help option, with hyperlinks to some Russian sites and lots and lots of >> more fun stuff!!!!!!!!!!! >> >> If you are interested, I can give you more details. This is fun and it >> works! >> >> With compliments, >> >> Pavel (Paul) Samsonov >> EDAD, College of Education, >> Texas A&M University >> tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) >> (409) 862-9152 (home) >> fax (409) 862-4347 >> e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > "A shared purpose did not claim my identity. > On the contrary, it enlarged my sense of myself." > Senator John McCain > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From simplify3 at JUNO.COM Mon Jun 12 04:15:51 2000 From: simplify3 at JUNO.COM (Kenneth E Udut) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 00:15:51 -0400 Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian Message-ID: > Does anyone know if there are foreign language channels > on > DirecTV or any other general satellite subscription service? Oh Yes! I have it! DISH Network - Russian TV package. Here are the costs, and what you do: COST: $150 for Dish and Receiver $25/month for NTV and NTV+ [you pay for the first two months up front so: $150 + $50 = $200.00 That's it! Here's what to do: 1) Call 1-800-333-3474 [DISH Network] 2) Find out nearest DISH Retailer (SEARS is one) 3) Pick up Dish and receiver 4) Install it. The dish is tiny - you don't have to install it on a rooftop - mine is sitting on the ground in my backyard, screwed onto an old wooden crate This is the hardest step. Expect to spend about 3 hrs finding the satelitte. A cheap 13" used portable TV is your best friend here. Or even a smaller TV. Keep the TV with you and the receiver, so that you can point the dish and see the resuts on the screen. 5) Call that phone number again, and have your credit card or debit card # ready. 6) Within 5 minutes or less, your NTV and NTV+ will start working! It's neat stuff. I've had it for about two months. And - to top it off - during the week, on NTV, from 4:30 - 5:15 EST, they run a Spanish soap opera in Russian --- and the language, for a complete neophyte learner of Russian - is very nearly fully comprehendable. I'd say I'm probably a beginning intermediate level, and even though I can't *completely* follow the conversations on screen, I do find that, more and more, I'm understand the vocabulary used. Also, NTV+ has a lot of excellent children's programming like children's movies, 'multifilm' which is mostly Russian cartoons. And the movies! The movies are top notch Russian movies. In the evenings, you have a lot of detective stories - actions, murder, plots you could follow with your eyes closed - in fact, a lot like the programming on America's USA network! Also, the direction you are pointing the dish is to their 3rd satelitte, which carries all of their foreign language programming. Here is a sample of what you could get, looking at my onscreen program guide: Arabic Polish Italian Spanish French Hindi This is what I'm guessing, looking at the names of the TV shows playing. [those are the language I can sorta recognize ] There's two or three pay per view channels too, although that's not the focus of this particular satelitte. Hope this helps! -Kenneth, a happy DISH network user. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Mon Jun 12 04:50:48 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Sun, 11 Jun 2000 21:50:48 -0700 Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian In-Reply-To: <200006120343.WAA03625@harper.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: In my experience, Russians and especially non-Russian speakers of Russian with specific training in language pedagogy (one of our best teaching assistants was Hungarian) were very skilled and brought out the best in students at every level, native English speaking graduate students with a committment to teaching were OK if they had a decent supervisor and course materials that worked, and everything else was pretty disastrous. One needs to work with the assumption that the students in your courses would like to learn Russian, for whatever reason. Holding out a carrot on a stick is fine, but if the road is a dead end, or the carrot turns out to be made of plastic, then the program will ultimately decline. -Martha Sherwood- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Mon Jun 12 13:26:13 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 09:26:13 -0400 Subject: Is there anything similar to Limericks in Russian? Message-ID: Is there a style of poetry in Russian similar to the English Limerick? -Kenneth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Mon Jun 12 09:56:10 2000 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 09:56:10 +0000 Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian Message-ID: You might be interested to know that my textbook, "Let's Talk About Life," includes a chapter on Russian rock music, including the words to five rock songs. The accompanying tape includes recordings of the songs. (All done with the requisite permissions!) Emily Tall Kat Tancock wrote: > Oh, you're so right! Cheesy pop music works great too, and it's great for > lower levels, because the vocab terms aren't too complex. I think it would > be fun to make a tape of Russian music etc. (poetry could even be included) > a compulsory part of a course, like a textbook. By the end of the class the > goal would be to have made it through the whole tape (hopefully memorizing > the whole thing as well). > > Another good thing about music is students don't get as bored with it when > it is listened to repeatedly. I have to say, I read Stantsionnyj Smotritel' > so many times through my degree, in at least three variants, that I can > barely stand the story now! (Sorry, Pushkin). Another thing we read a lot > was Chekhov's "comedies" - which weren't nearly as funny when it took you > ten times as long to get through the story than he intended. > > Kat > > > From: Mourka1 at AOL.COM > > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > > > Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 09:44:36 EDT > > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > > Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian > > > > Dear Seelangers, > > > > Whew, it took me over an hour to read all the "why nots", and then somebody > > mentioned, God forbid, "rap". > > > > The truth is, my truth, anyway, and I feel that I am a fairly successful > > language teacher (A Russian emigre and certified in Russian, ESL and French) > > is that to get kids attention these days (and it is difficult), I must make > > my lessons relevent to these kids lives. Currently I teach 7, 8 and 9th > > grade French in an inner city school. > > > > Notice how kids remember every word in their R&B songs and raps? The words > > are rather intricate and often difficult to say. I do the same. I use > > French rap and Russian rap. The kids learn them and love them. > > > > A true story: Thanksgiving dinner with the whole family and the family asks > > the child the old question, "what language he is taking and would he say a > > few words", not expecting much. The 9th grader preceded to recite my entire > > rap and the guests nearly fell off their chairs. > > > > I have a professional theatre background which helps me to sing and dance > > through class, however, I think that generally, rhythm helps language > > learning. I use rhythm with everything--grammar points particularly. The > > kids remember everything. > > > > I don't believe this idea is limited to elementary and secondary schools. > > I've taught at the college level as well and I've taught adults and everybody > > enjoys it and memorizes things without knowing. I never used a book when I > > taught Russian in high school. I found most books extremely dry. I used > > games, raps, songs, culture and lots and lots of communacative interaction > > relevant to their lives. > > > > In short, at least at the beginning level, language learning needs to be > > enjoyable and fun or else it is deadly. Particularly for Americans for all > > the reasons that you have already mentioned. > > > > Thank you for reading. > > > > Mourka > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From russky at UNB.CA Mon Jun 12 15:06:10 2000 From: russky at UNB.CA (allan reid) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:06:10 -0400 Subject: Lem In-Reply-To: <000801bfd264$02727000$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: >Persons hitting a ball with a stick and persons throwing a ball into a >basket earn hundreds and even thousands times more than persons who teach >at school or university (Nobel Prize winners including). > This may be true, and obscene, but it is hardly restricted or peculiar to America. It is equally true in most other countries, although the individuals in questions may be more likely to be kicking a ball or driving a fast car instead. Allan Reid Chair, Dep't of Culture and Language Studies Associate Professor of Russian University of New Brunswick tel: (506) 458-7714 P.O. Box 4400 fax: (506) 447-3166 Fredericton, N.B. http://www.unb.ca/web/arts Canada E3B 5A3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWU.EDU Mon Jun 12 14:28:15 2000 From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 10:28:15 -0400 Subject: Russian rap and how to get students to study Russian Message-ID: Well, there's some stuff on the net. Try http://tsvetkov.ru/media/radio or http://www.russianseattle.com/radio_r.htm for lists of Russian radio and TV stations with webcasts. Russkoe radio (an overloaded site) and VBC-Vladivostok (never crowded) are good for all-Russian rock and pop. VBC runs a teeny-bopper dedication-line talk show in the wee hours (their time - morning/day ET). Ekho Moskvy is all talk. I will be using radio a lot this fall in fourth year. RTR (2-программа) and TV-6 and even NTV and a few provincial ststions runs TV webcasts, but reliability is spotty, especially for NTV which is overloaded. -R. Robin > > Does anyone know if there are foreign language channels on DirecTV or any > other general satellite subscription service? > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Mon Jun 12 14:56:34 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 10:56:34 -0400 Subject: Russian version of "Who wants to be a millionaire?" type trivia f or computer? Message-ID: I enjoy watching the Russian version of "Who Wants to be a Millionaire?" on NTV (although I forget when it is on and don't always catch it). The questions are mostly comprehendable - and it's especially exciting to be able to answer the questions! My query: Is there a Russian computer version of the game? I have seen a "Who Wants to be a millionaire" computer trivia game for the IBM PC for American version of the TV show, but do not know if a Russian version exists. thanks! -Kenneth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Mon Jun 12 15:29:24 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 10:29:24 -0500 Subject: Is there anything similar to Limericks in Russian? Message-ID: > Is there a style of poetry in Russian > similar to the English Limerick? > > > -Kenneth There is a book called "Mother Goose Rhymes" with an incredible collection of English Limericks. Most of them are translated into Russian. I don't have this book on me right, it is across the ocean. But S.Marshak and K. Chukovski made many limericks part of the Russian children's litterature. "Poter'ali kot'atki na doroge perchtaki" - "Kittens lost their mittens" - "Zhil na svete chelovek, skr'uchennye nozhki, imgul'al on tselyj vek po skr'uchennoj dorozhke" (Crooked man) "Shaltai-boltaj sidel na stene, shaltaj-boltaj svalils'a vo sne" (Humpty-Dumty) And many, many more! These verses have long been considered Russian, and very few people realize that they are translated English limericks. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU Mon Jun 12 15:52:53 2000 From: rrobin at GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 11:52:53 -0400 Subject: Russian version of "Who wants to be a millionaire?" type trivia for computer? Message-ID: > My query: Is there a Russian computer version > of the game? I have seen a "Who Wants to be a millionaire" > computer trivia game for the IBM PC for American version > of the TV show, but do not know if a Russian version exists. There is. A friend of mine in Volgograd has played it (at a friend's office). I'm going to try and find it when I go this August. -- Richard Robin - http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~rrobin German and Slavic Dept. The George Washington University WASHINGTON, DC 20052 Can read HTML mail. Читаю по-русски в любой кодировке. Chitayu po-russki v lyuboi kodirovke. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Mon Jun 12 16:28:28 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 12:28:28 -0400 Subject: Is there anything similar to Limericks in Russian? Message-ID: >> Is there a style of poetry in Russian >> similar to the English Limerick? >> >> >> -Kenneth > >There is a book called "Mother Goose Rhymes" with an incredible collection >of English Limericks. Most of them are translated into Russian. There is such a thing as "russkij limerik" which has a built in unspoken obscenity: Ivan Ivanych izdavna Nosil s soboj kusok ... gazety On govoril: "Gazeta eta Dlja prosveshchenija nam dana." ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Mon Jun 12 17:07:39 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 18:07:39 +0100 Subject: Fw: Russian anymore Message-ID: ---------- From: Daf To: a.jameson at dial.pipex.com Subject: Re: Russian anymore Date: 09 June 2000 15:55 Pavel Samsonov wrote > What I do I write a message of 3-4 sentences on a board and get them to read > it. Then I erase some words and get the students to read the message one by > one pretending that the words are there, then remove some more words until > someone actually reads from the clean board. They get ecstatic because they > realize that in 2-3 minutes they can memorize a text of 15-25 words! And > there is a covert competition among the students. That's a great idea and one I never thought of. I shall use it. I do quite a bit of memorising using playing cards. The cards have Russian phrases on one side in one colour and English on the other in another colour [for easier sorting]. For an introductory game we play it with the Russian up and everyone gets to keep the cards that he translates correctly. Then we go to having the English up and they have to give the exact Russian phrase that is on the other side. Many sets are sentences that I wrote down from Russian films so we can have a follow up when they watch the film and see how many of them they can catch. Daf Meirionnydd Languages [web page- http://www.meirionnydd.force9.co.uk ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From adrozd at BAMA.UA.EDU Mon Jun 12 18:13:23 2000 From: adrozd at BAMA.UA.EDU (Andrew M. Drozd) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 13:13:23 -0500 Subject: Job Announcement Message-ID: Dear SEELangers: please pass around the following job announcement. Thanks. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Temporary Full Time Russian Instructor. MA. Required. 12 hours of language teaching per semester. Direct first-year language program and assume other service responsibilities as needed. Previous language teaching experience required; communicative approach preferred. Time spent in Russia a plus. Two year position with possibility of renewal. Send vita, three letters of recommendation and dossier to Professor Edgar Frost, Chair of Search Committee, Dept. of Modern Languages and Classics, The University of Alabama, Box 870246, Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0246. Applications accepted until position is filled. Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. The University of Alabama is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Andrew M. Drozd Assistant Professor of Russian adrozd at bama.ua.edu Department of Modern Languages and Classics Box 870246 University of Alabama Tuscaloosa, AL 35487 tel. (205) 348-5720 fax. (205) 348-2042 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Mon Jun 12 19:56:11 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 14:56:11 -0500 Subject: Fw: Russian anymore Message-ID: > ---------- > > Pavel Samsonov wrote > > What I do I write a message of 3-4 sentences on a board and get them to > read > > it. Then I erase some words and get the students to read the message one > by > > one pretending that the words are there, then remove some more words > until > > someone actually reads from the clean board. They get ecstatic because > they > > realize that in 2-3 minutes they can memorize a text of 15-25 words! And > > there is a covert competition among the students. > > That's a great idea and one I never thought of. I shall use it. I do quite > a bit of memorising using playing cards. The cards have Russian phrases on > one side in one colour and English on the other in another colour [for > easier sorting]. For an introductory game we play it with the Russian up > and everyone gets to keep the cards that he translates correctly. Then we > go to having the English up and they have to give the exact Russian phrase > that is on the other side. Many sets are sentences that I wrote down from > Russian films so we can have a follow up when they watch the film and see > how many of them they can catch. > Daf > Meirionnydd Languages > [web page- http://www.meirionnydd.force9.co.uk ] This sounds like a good idea. I normally work with adults. They feel very well when the teacher is innovative and works hard to get the students to learn better. They always appreciate what you do for them, which is a great method itself. Whatever you do is great as long as it works. I remember a conversation at a college in Minsk where I worked many years ago. There was a strong push on the part of the administration to use audio labs. Our rector (president) was meeting teachers of foreign languages to see if they were ready to use such a lab. One of us, a very experienced and well-known teacher said: "I can use anything if it works. If I use only a board and a piece of chalk and it works - this is excellent. I can as well come into the classroom, jump up on the table and dance - if it works for my students, I can do that too. It may work for some teachers and students. If a lab works - this is fine too." Methodology of a second language teaching is an area most vulnerable to fashion. Teaching methods are adopted with wild enthusiasm and then just as often replaced with very different methods, adopted with as much enthusiasm as their predecessors. The best thing, however is to develop your own methodology. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Mon Jun 12 21:38:49 2000 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 22:38:49 +0100 Subject: Leskov and Bunin Message-ID: I am compiling an anthology of Russian short stories for Penguin Classics. I admire Leskov enormously, but many of his best works are povesti rather than rasskazy. I shall certainly include "Malen'kaya Oshibka". I would be very grateful for recommendations of what else to include (8000 words max., preferably shorter). I should also be grateful for recommendations as regards Bunin. I shall definitely include "Solnechny Udar". Thanks. Robert Chandler ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From anon at example.com Tue Jun 13 00:08:13 2000 From: anon at example.com (anon at example.com) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 02:08:13 +0200 Subject: Is there anything similar to Limericks in Russian? Message-ID: >> Is there a style of poetry in Russian >> similar to the English Limerick? >> >> >> -Kenneth There is such a thing as "russkij limerik" which has a built in unspoken obscenity: Ivan Ivanych izdavna Nosil s soboj kusok ... gazety [Comment] Really? So, is that the Russian limerick? How interesting. There's a site full of limericks in Russian which, as we now know, are not the same as Russian limericks, and not all of the limericks on the site are obscene. http://kulichki.rambler.ru/limeriki/ And there's a game analogous to Millionaire. It's called O, Schastlivchik!, and one can find it on the web and download it. Yours, ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Tue Jun 13 01:07:13 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 21:07:13 EDT Subject: Is there anything similar to Limericks in Russian? Message-ID: The limerick packs laughs anatomical in a form which is quite economical, but the good ones I've seen so seldom are clean, and the clean ones so seldom are comical! (author unknown...to me, anyway. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jpacheco44 at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Jun 13 03:35:16 2000 From: jpacheco44 at HOTMAIL.COM (Jean Pacheco) Date: Mon, 12 Jun 2000 20:35:16 PDT Subject: Fwd: International Summer Language School Message-ID: I have just received this e-mail and thought that some of you might be interested. jpacheco44 at hotmail.com > >Hello! My name is Natasha Tabunschikova. I come from Zelenogorsk, a >town in Krasnoyarsk region, Central Siberia. I am an Assistant Principal >of Linguistic Gymnasia in charge of international cooperation and the >Director of the International Summer Language School. > >We still have a few open teaching positions at our Summer Language >School and I would like to invite native English speakers (teachers, >educators, students), as well as teachers and students from >non-English-speaking countries, who speak English as a second language, >to come to Siberia to participate in our program. >We seek participation from as wide a geographic distribution of >cultures and nations as possible, so that representatives of a >broad range of nations could have an opportunity to share their >culture, express their opinions and make a lot of good friends. > >You are welcome to join our international team!!! > >The International Summer Language School will take place in June-July >2000 on the Obskoe Sea shore in a picturesque suburban area of the >largest Siberian city Novosibirsk in a resort which provides >comfortable rooms, classrooms, good food, nice recreational > facilities: > >http://cobr.kts.ru/projs/sls/ > >We have fixed the dates of the summer school. In fact, we intend to >have two sessions two weeks each. The first starts on June 20th and >finishes July 4th. The second is July 5th until July 19th. If you >decide to participate you may choose either to come for one session >(the first or the second one) or stay for a month. > >We will also be happy to meet those who would like to improve their >skills and knowledge of Russian , as the intensive courses of the >Russian language and culture will be provided at the Summer School. > >Participation fee is 150 US dollars per a teacher and $200 >per a student for a two-week program which covers >accommodation, food, meeting at the airport in Novosibisrk, tuition >and activities at the School, cultural program, excursions to the city >of Novosibirsk. >Flying arrangements is the teachers' responsibility, so apart from >participation fee they would have to take care of the air tickets and pay >for them. > >We do not have strict demands for foreign teachers' qualifications, >we ask them to send a resume of their academic and teaching >background with references. > For an institution like summer school it's much more important > to be the right type of a person. >We realize that only a creative and adventurous people who care >for children would go to Siberia to do this volunteer work. >Most Westerners who come to this country see only St.Petersburg >or Moscow, and usually very few of them reach Siberia. And this place >is really vast and beautiful. > I am sure if you decide to come and be the part of the >program, this trip will be very educational and you will >have an opportunity to experience our culture, lifestyle and Siberian >hospitality. And I can assure you of a very warm welcome! > >Please visit our WWW page: >http://cobr.kts.ru/projs/sls/ > >If you've got interested, please be free to ask any questions and I >will provide you more information and a detailed every day program. > And I can assure you of a very warm welcome! >I am looking forward to hearing from you. Email me at: > natasha at zgr.kts.ru > > > >Best regards, > Natasha mailto:natasha at zgr.kts.ru > > > >----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- >----- >IECC-PROJECTS is intended for teachers seeking classroom partners for an >intercultural e-mail project. To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list, >please send an e-mail message to: "iecc-projects-request at stolaf.edu" >More information is available at URL: http://www.iecc.org > >----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- >----- >IECC-DISCUSSION is intended for discussing the applications and >implications >of intercultural classroom e-mail partnerships. To subscribe or >unsubscribe, >please send an e-mail message to: "iecc-discussion-request at stolaf.edu" >More information is available at URL: http://www.iecc.org ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Tue Jun 13 11:56:17 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 12:56:17 +0100 Subject: Leskov and Bunin Message-ID: Dear Colleagues Would anyone like to suggest suitable Leskov and/or Bunin texts? PLEASE EMAIL ROBERT DIRECT. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Robert Chandler To: a.jameson at dial.pipex.com Subject: Leskov and Bunin Date: 13 June 2000 07:10 I am compiling an anthology of Russian short stories for Penguin Classics. I admire Leskov enormously, but many of his best works are povesti rather than rasskazy. I shall certainly include "Malen'kaya Oshibka". I would be very grateful for recommendations of what else to include (8000 words max., preferably shorter). I should also be grateful for recommendations as regards Bunin. I shall definitely include "Solnechny Udar". Thanks. Robert Chandler ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU Tue Jun 13 21:56:59 2000 From: msherw at OREGON.UOREGON.EDU (Marta Sherwood-Pike) Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:56:59 -0700 Subject: Fwd: International Summer Language School In-Reply-To: <20000613033516.82526.qmail@hotmail.com> Message-ID: It sounds like a good program, but I'm poor and cannot afford air fair, let alone a program fee for teaching English as a second language in Siberia, which I would actually want to do. -Martha Sherwood- On Mon, 12 Jun 2000, Jean Pacheco wrote: > I have just received this e-mail and thought that some of you might be > interested. > jpacheco44 at hotmail.com > > > > > >Hello! My name is Natasha Tabunschikova. I come from Zelenogorsk, a > >town in Krasnoyarsk region, Central Siberia. I am an Assistant Principal > >of Linguistic Gymnasia in charge of international cooperation and the > >Director of the International Summer Language School. > > > >We still have a few open teaching positions at our Summer Language > >School and I would like to invite native English speakers (teachers, > >educators, students), as well as teachers and students from > >non-English-speaking countries, who speak English as a second language, > >to come to Siberia to participate in our program. > >We seek participation from as wide a geographic distribution of > >cultures and nations as possible, so that representatives of a > >broad range of nations could have an opportunity to share their > >culture, express their opinions and make a lot of good friends. > > > >You are welcome to join our international team!!! > > > >The International Summer Language School will take place in June-July > >2000 on the Obskoe Sea shore in a picturesque suburban area of the > >largest Siberian city Novosibirsk in a resort which provides > >comfortable rooms, classrooms, good food, nice recreational > > facilities: > > > >http://cobr.kts.ru/projs/sls/ > > > >We have fixed the dates of the summer school. In fact, we intend to > >have two sessions two weeks each. The first starts on June 20th and > >finishes July 4th. The second is July 5th until July 19th. If you > >decide to participate you may choose either to come for one session > >(the first or the second one) or stay for a month. > > > >We will also be happy to meet those who would like to improve their > >skills and knowledge of Russian , as the intensive courses of the > >Russian language and culture will be provided at the Summer School. > > > >Participation fee is 150 US dollars per a teacher and $200 > >per a student for a two-week program which covers > >accommodation, food, meeting at the airport in Novosibisrk, tuition > >and activities at the School, cultural program, excursions to the city > >of Novosibirsk. > >Flying arrangements is the teachers' responsibility, so apart from > >participation fee they would have to take care of the air tickets and pay > >for them. > > > >We do not have strict demands for foreign teachers' qualifications, > >we ask them to send a resume of their academic and teaching > >background with references. > > For an institution like summer school it's much more important > > to be the right type of a person. > >We realize that only a creative and adventurous people who care > >for children would go to Siberia to do this volunteer work. > >Most Westerners who come to this country see only St.Petersburg > >or Moscow, and usually very few of them reach Siberia. And this place > >is really vast and beautiful. > > I am sure if you decide to come and be the part of the > >program, this trip will be very educational and you will > >have an opportunity to experience our culture, lifestyle and Siberian > >hospitality. And I can assure you of a very warm welcome! > > > >Please visit our WWW page: > >http://cobr.kts.ru/projs/sls/ > > > >If you've got interested, please be free to ask any questions and I > >will provide you more information and a detailed every day program. > > And I can assure you of a very warm welcome! > >I am looking forward to hearing from you. Email me at: > > natasha at zgr.kts.ru > > > > > > > >Best regards, > > Natasha mailto:natasha at zgr.kts.ru > > > > > > > >----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- > >----- > >IECC-PROJECTS is intended for teachers seeking classroom partners for an > >intercultural e-mail project. To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list, > >please send an e-mail message to: "iecc-projects-request at stolaf.edu" > >More information is available at URL: http://www.iecc.org > > > >----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- > >----- > >IECC-DISCUSSION is intended for discussing the applications and > >implications > >of intercultural classroom e-mail partnerships. To subscribe or > >unsubscribe, > >please send an e-mail message to: "iecc-discussion-request at stolaf.edu" > >More information is available at URL: http://www.iecc.org > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From simplify3 at JUNO.COM Wed Jun 14 04:01:45 2000 From: simplify3 at JUNO.COM (Kenneth E Udut) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 00:01:45 -0400 Subject: Eliza available in Russian version? Message-ID: Is the artificial intelligence program/game ELIZA (the "computer psychologist") which has been around for a very long time, available in a Russian version? I've seen it in BASIC in English (I once typed it in years ago back when the only way to -get- programs was to -make- them!), but would like to know if someone has put a version together in Russian. DOS or Windows preferred, or source code even better... I think it could be a good resource when needing someone to talk to and practice Russian with, but no humans around [and counting up and down numbers or practicing phrases during "down time" can get tiresome sometimes). With my fingers crossed, -Kenneth simplify3 at juno.com, kenneth.udut at spcorp.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Wed Jun 14 15:36:20 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 11:36:20 -0400 Subject: Dictionary of stress patterns? [Russian] Message-ID: Is there Russian dictionary of stress-patterns? For example, these words all have something in common: predstavil kartavil ispravil moskovskii bez strasti holodnyi golodnyi negodnyi besplodnyi trevojno bezbojnyi porojnii It is the stress pattern. I have a relatively short list (443 words) of words and their stress patterns that I yanked from a Russian program that 'write poetry' for you. Any help appreciated! -Kenneth, who is always trying to fill up library. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gconliff at ALUMNI.LAKEHEADU.CA Wed Jun 14 20:00:09 2000 From: gconliff at ALUMNI.LAKEHEADU.CA (Conliffe (Eames)) Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2000 20:00:09 +0000 Subject: Rossiiane v Azii In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would like to announce Number 6 of Rossiiane v Azii. Rossiiane v Azii is a Russian-language literary and historical annual devoted to the experiences and activities of Russian subjects who lived in various countries of Asia, mainly in China, Japan, Korea, and Mongolia, in the 19th and early 20th centuries, and of nearly half a million emigres from Russia who settled in Asian countries after the Revolution of 1917. Readers are introduced to literary works, memoirs, articles, studies, documents, and other materials written by those Russians, as well as to scholarly articles and studies on the Russian presence in Asia. Most of the materials are in Russian, but some articles and reviews are in English. Each issue has 250-300 pages, and some include colour reproductions and photographs. The annual has been published since 1994. For further information, please contact the editor, Olga Bakich, at the following address. Olga Bakich Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Toronto Toronto, ON Canada M5S 1A1 e-mail: obakich at chass.utoronto.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mitrege at AUBURN.EDU Thu Jun 15 12:33:46 2000 From: mitrege at AUBURN.EDU (George Mitrevski) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 07:33:46 -0500 Subject: Used books for sale: Russian, Macedonian, Serbian/Croatian! Message-ID: I have several hundred used books in the Slavic languages for sale, most of them $1-$3. Please visit http://semiology.safeshopper.com George. *************************************************************** Dr. George Mitrevski office: 334-844-6376 Foreign Languages fax: 334-844-6378 6030 Haley Center e-mail: mitrege at auburn.edu Auburn University voicemail: 435-806-7037 Auburn, AL 36849-5204 Web: http://www.auburn.edu/~mitrege/ Buy my used books in Macedonian, Russian and other Slavic languages: http://semiology.safeshopper.com/ *************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Thu Jun 15 13:27:52 2000 From: jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Jolanta M. Davis) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:27:52 -0400 Subject: To Chairs of U.S. Departments of Slavic/Russian programs Message-ID: Dear Professor, I would like to publish in the next, September, issue of AAASS NewsNet some data about recent graduates in the Russian and East European studies and Russian and Slavic Languages and Literatures. If possible, could you please send me (to newsnet at fas.harvard.edu) by Friday, July 14 a list of your recent graduates including: - name - degree awarded (B.A., M.A., Ph.D., or other) - title of thesis or dissertation - employment prospects or future education plans (whether the graduate already secured employment or not; if so, please provide the name of the organization and the title of position obtained; or if the graduate is planning further study, please note whether he/ she already got admitted into a graduate program and where) - total number of degrees in each category (B.A., M.A., Ph.D., or other) awarded this year by your institution (university or college) The main reason I am asking for names of graduates is that if they are AAASS members, I will put in an announcement about their graduation in the "Personages" column. However, if you think that this information is too confidential to send me, please provide at least the number of degrees awarded in each category (B.A., M.A., Ph.D., or other), the number of your graduates who already secured employment or were admitted into graduate schools, and the total number of degrees in each category awarded this year by the university or college (for counting the percentage of graduates who majored in Russian and Slavic studies). Thank you very much for your help in obtaining this information. I hope that AAASS members would be interested in seeing statistics on recent graduates and if I get good comments about this survey, I am planning to run similar information in each September issue of NewsNet. Sincerely, Jolanta Davis Jolanta M. Davis Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS) 8 Story Street Cambridge, MA 02138, USA tel.: (617) 495-0679 fax: (617) 495-0680 http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dburrous at JEFFCO.K12.CO.US Thu Jun 15 15:25:51 2000 From: dburrous at JEFFCO.K12.CO.US (David Burrous) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:25:51 -0600 Subject: Translation of Czech Message-ID: Colleagues: A friend of mine has received a letter from a Czech relative, handwritten, 5x7, both sides. She's looking for a free translation. Can anybody help? Thanks. Ciao. db -- David Burrous Coordinator of Foreign Languages and Foreign Exchange Students Tanglewood Resource Center 13950 West 20th Avenue P.O. Box 4001 Golden, Colorado 80401-0001 E-mail: dburrous at jeffco.k12.co.us Phone: 303-982-5927 Fax: 303-2798525 Foreign Language Home Page: http://204.98.1.2/isu/language/index.html Foreign Exchange Student Home Page: http://204.98.1.2/isu/forex/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM Thu Jun 15 15:58:56 2000 From: kenneth.udut at SPCORP.COM (Udut, Kenneth) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 11:58:56 -0400 Subject: Books (or courses) in English on simultaneous translating/interpr eting? Message-ID: Are there books in English (or courses) on simultaneous translating? -Kenneth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Thu Jun 15 16:37:34 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 09:37:34 -0700 Subject: Ukrainian Books In-Reply-To: <3948CC34@webmail.duc.auburn.edu> Message-ID: Hello, The University of Victoria Russian Course Union recently had a number (read: boxes) of Ukrainian books - both in Ukrainian and in English, but mostly in Ukrainian - donated to us. Since we don't offer Ukrainian Studies here and we have limited space in our Reading Room, we are hoping to give them to someone who would be able to use them. We were thinking that perhaps there is a school in Alberta, perhaps, or somewhere which would have need of these books and offer to pay the postage for us to send them. Does anyone have any clues as to who would want these books? Thanks, Kat -- Kat Tancock UVic CALL Facility http://web.uvic.ca/langcen tancockk at uvic.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at HOME.COM Thu Jun 15 19:24:01 2000 From: asred at HOME.COM (Steve Marder) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:24:01 -0400 Subject: Books (or courses) in English on simultaneous translating/interpreting? Message-ID: > Are there books in English (or courses) on simultaneous translating? There are many of both. Let me get the ball rolling by mentioning Lynn Visson's book _An Introduction to Simultaneous Interpretation_. (Admittedly, I know the book only in its Russian translation: _Sinxronnyy perevod s russkogo na angliyskiy_.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM Thu Jun 15 19:43:20 2000 From: kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM (richard tomback) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 15:43:20 -0400 Subject: Ukrainian Books Message-ID: dear sir; we have many pupils from the former ukranian soviet republic as pupils in our high school who would be interested in these books. could you please send two boxes to my attention at the following address; dr.richard tomback the leon m. goldstein high school 2001 oriental boulevard brooklyn ny 11235 as we close on june 28, please send books as soon as possible. thank you, dr.richard tombac k kaunas4 at compuserve.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yspigak at MINDSPRING.COM Fri Jun 16 01:59:42 2000 From: yspigak at MINDSPRING.COM (Yelena Spivak) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:59:42 -0700 Subject: Ukrainian Books Message-ID: Hi, Kat. I have read about those books in Ukrainian and thought that it might be a good idea to offer them to the Solvay School Library. In Solvay School district there are about 150 students from Ukraine and I am sure they will appreciate this gift. If you would like to I can ask if school could cover mailing expenses. Thanks, Yelena -----Original Message----- From: Kat Tancock To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Date: Thursday, June 15, 2000 9:34 AM Subject: Ukrainian Books >Hello, > >The University of Victoria Russian Course Union recently had a number (read: >boxes) of Ukrainian books - both in Ukrainian and in English, but mostly in >Ukrainian - donated to us. Since we don't offer Ukrainian Studies here and >we have limited space in our Reading Room, we are hoping to give them to >someone who would be able to use them. > >We were thinking that perhaps there is a school in Alberta, perhaps, or >somewhere which would have need of these books and offer to pay the postage >for us to send them. > >Does anyone have any clues as to who would want these books? > >Thanks, > >Kat >-- >Kat Tancock >UVic CALL Facility >http://web.uvic.ca/langcen >tancockk at uvic.ca > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Lvisson at AOL.COM Fri Jun 16 01:26:31 2000 From: Lvisson at AOL.COM (Lvisson at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:26:31 EDT Subject: Books/courses on simultaneous interpretation Message-ID: In answer to the question: There is the English edition of my book, "From Russian Into English: An Introduction to Simultaneous Interpretation,"( Second edition, Focus Publishing, Newburyport, MA, 1999) available at website www.pullins.com or by mail: Focus/c/o PBS, Box 390, Jaffrey, NH 03452, or by phone: (EST) (603)) 532-7454 or (800- 848-7236. The book is intended for native speakers of English. The Russian edition, "Sinkhronnyi perevod s russkogo na angliiskii: priemy, navyki, posbiia" (Moskva: Valent, 1999) is intended for native speakers of Russian, and is available from the website www.lexiconbridge.com and from Panorama Books (mbraun at channel1.com). My audiocourse "Praktikum po sinkhronnomu perevodu s russkogo na angliiskii (s audioprilozheniem) (Moskva: Valent, 2000) with 4 cassettes should soon also be available from Panorama, and later in the summer I may be able to provide other sources (lvisson at aol.com) The audiocourse consists of 25 Russian texts with English translation and stylistic variants., Texts are read at slow and fast speeds in Russian and English, cover a variety of subjects. Will be glad to provide further information- L. Visson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From simplify3 at JUNO.COM Fri Jun 16 03:48:45 2000 From: simplify3 at JUNO.COM (Kenneth E Udut) Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 23:48:45 -0400 Subject: Books/courses on simultaneous interpretation Message-ID: Oh! How exciting! The cassette course sounds particularly fasctinating -- I hope you will post here on SEELANGS when it becomes available! Tonight, I ordered the 2nd edition of the English version of your simultaneous translation book from barnes & noble. After I have worked with it for a while, I will also order the Russian version of your simultaneous translation book,.and compare. [definately a very valuable resource - to have a book on a subject in both the native language and target language!] I look forward to receiving the English version, and if it works out for my purposes, the Russian book next, and finally, when Valent publishes your audio course, I'll get that too. Jobs specifically for simultaneous translators seem to be limited in the US market (and the rate of pay levels off after a few years, at least according to the govt statistics), but: 1) I think for one like myself still learning to speak Russian, it is a good resource (and will help in times that I practice "shadowing" Russian TV or shortwave) 2) being able to simultaneously translate in both directions is a skill that can be of value in unrelated professions, much as an ability to write macros in Microsoft Excel can find usefulness in fields other than generating automated reports on a day-to-day basis. Thanks for the quick response! -Kenneth simplify3 at juno.com, kenneth.udut at spcorp.com On Thu, 15 Jun 2000 21:26:31 EDT Lvisson at AOL.COM writes: > In answer to the question: > There is the English edition of my book, "From Russian Into English: > An > Introduction to Simultaneous Interpretation,"( Second edition, Focus > Publishing, Newburyport, MA, 1999) available at website > www.pullins.com or > by mail: Focus/c/o PBS, Box 390, Jaffrey, NH 03452, or by phone: > (EST) > (603)) 532-7454 or (800- 848-7236. The book is intended for native > speakers > of English. > The Russian edition, "Sinkhronnyi perevod s russkogo na > angliiskii: > priemy, navyki, posbiia" (Moskva: Valent, 1999) is intended for > native > speakers of Russian, and is available from the website > www.lexiconbridge.com > and from Panorama Books (mbraun at channel1.com). > My audiocourse "Praktikum po sinkhronnomu perevodu s russkogo na > angliiskii (s audioprilozheniem) (Moskva: Valent, 2000) with 4 > cassettes > should soon also be available from Panorama, and later in the summer > I may be > able to provide other sources (lvisson at aol.com) > The audiocourse consists of 25 Russian texts with English > translation and > stylistic variants., Texts are read at slow and fast speeds in > Russian and > English, cover a variety of subjects. > Will be glad to provide further information- > L. Visson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bougakov at MAIL.RU Fri Jun 16 06:48:56 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:48:56 +0400 Subject: Millionare game Message-ID: Hello, List, As far as I remember, someone asked about computer version of 'Who wants to be a millionaire' couple of weeks ago. Sorry, I do not remember, who - my mailer erases all messages older than one week. Online version of this game is available at http://lick.xelon.ru. If you have MS Excel 97 or 2000 you can download a macro from http://webwarez.vvsu.ru/Files/dibrov.zip. This game is available for free, its size is only 480Kb. Sorry that I am a little bit (ha-ha-ha) late - I have found this game accidentally just yesterday. Enjoy playing it! Sincerely yours, Alexandre Bougakov Student of the sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My website is http://SocioLink.narod.ru/ (thousands of sociology related links on the Web - in Russian, Microsoft Internet Explorer 4 or higher is required) My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) P.S. Thanks God, it's Friday!!! Good weekend to all of you and your families! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at HOME.COM Fri Jun 16 10:54:57 2000 From: asred at HOME.COM (Steve Marder) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 06:54:57 -0400 Subject: Books (or courses) in English on simultaneous translating/interpreting? Message-ID: > Are there books in English (or courses) on simultaneous translating? You might want to check out the Monterey School of International Studies in California, which offers courses in translation and interpreting, including Russian. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Fri Jun 16 15:56:29 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 08:56:29 -0700 Subject: Ukrainian Books In-Reply-To: <001201bfd736$8aaa84e0$f7ad8ad1@ybobko> Message-ID: Hello, Where exactly is Solvay? I'll definitely keep you in mind. Kat -- Kat Tancock UVic CALL Facility http://web.uvic.ca/langcen tancockk at uvic.ca > From: Yelena Spivak > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:59:42 -0700 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: Ukrainian Books > > Hi, Kat. I have read about those books in Ukrainian and thought that it > might be a good idea to offer them to the Solvay School Library. In Solvay > School district there are about 150 students from Ukraine and I am sure > they will appreciate this gift. If you would like to I can ask if school > could cover mailing expenses. Thanks, Yelena > -----Original Message----- > From: Kat Tancock > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Date: Thursday, June 15, 2000 9:34 AM > Subject: Ukrainian Books > > >> Hello, >> >> The University of Victoria Russian Course Union recently had a number > (read: >> boxes) of Ukrainian books - both in Ukrainian and in English, but mostly in >> Ukrainian - donated to us. Since we don't offer Ukrainian Studies here and >> we have limited space in our Reading Room, we are hoping to give them to >> someone who would be able to use them. >> >> We were thinking that perhaps there is a school in Alberta, perhaps, or >> somewhere which would have need of these books and offer to pay the postage >> for us to send them. >> >> Does anyone have any clues as to who would want these books? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Kat >> -- >> Kat Tancock >> UVic CALL Facility >> http://web.uvic.ca/langcen >> tancockk at uvic.ca >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From LILAC1549 at AOL.COM Fri Jun 16 17:58:49 2000 From: LILAC1549 at AOL.COM (Kristina Efimenko) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 13:58:49 EDT Subject: Ukrainian Books Message-ID: Solvay is listed in the National Geographic Atlas of the World as a little town north of Syracuse, New York. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mcarlson at KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU Fri Jun 16 21:04:00 2000 From: mcarlson at KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU (Maria Carlson) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:04:00 -0500 Subject: To Chairs of U.S. Departments of Slavic/Russian programs Message-ID: The information you requested is attached. If our systems are incompatible, this may not show up. Please let me know if it does NOT show up. MC "Jolanta M. Davis" wrote: > Dear Professor, > > I would like to publish in the next, September, issue of AAASS NewsNet some > data about recent graduates in the Russian and East European studies and > Russian and Slavic Languages and Literatures. If possible, could you please > send me (to newsnet at fas.harvard.edu) by Friday, July 14 a list of your > recent graduates including: > - name > - degree awarded (B.A., M.A., Ph.D., or other) > - title of thesis or dissertation > - employment prospects or future education plans (whether the graduate > already secured employment or not; if so, please provide the name of the > organization and the title of position obtained; or if the graduate is > planning further study, please note whether he/ she already got admitted > into a graduate program and where) > - total number of degrees in each category (B.A., M.A., Ph.D., or other) > awarded this year by your institution (university or college) > > The main reason I am asking for names of graduates is that if they are > AAASS members, I will put in an announcement about their graduation in the > "Personages" column. However, if you think that this information is too > confidential to send me, please provide at least the number of degrees > awarded in each category (B.A., M.A., Ph.D., or other), the number of your > graduates who already secured employment or were admitted into graduate > schools, and the total number of degrees in each category awarded this year > by the university or college (for counting the percentage of graduates who > majored in Russian and Slavic studies). > > Thank you very much for your help in obtaining this information. I hope > that AAASS members would be interested in seeing statistics on recent > graduates and if I get good comments about this survey, I am planning to > run similar information in each September issue of NewsNet. > > Sincerely, > Jolanta Davis > Jolanta M. Davis > Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor > American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS) > 8 Story Street > Cambridge, MA 02138, USA > tel.: (617) 495-0679 > fax: (617) 495-0680 > http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- University of Kansas Russian and East European Studies Program (US/ED Title VI NRC) MA in Russian & East European Language and Area Studies (a terminal degree) 1999 Graduates (May, August, December) 10 MA Graduates 5 were in Russian Studies 2 in Balkan Studies 2 in Ukrainian Studies 1 in Polish Studies Of these 9: 3 are active FAOs [U.S. Army Foreign Area Officers] (2 Russ., 1 Balk.) (assigned to the Intelligence Directorate of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to US Embassy-Zagreb, and to Military Intelligence at the Pentagon) 1 works as professional staff in the KU Libraries (Ukr.) 1 is finishing law school (Russ.) 1 works for a major Russian book vendor as admin. staff (Russ.) 1 is a Fascell Fellow at U.S. Embassy-Warsaw (Pol.) 1 is a translator at Commercial Bank of San Francisco after turning down a Fascell for U.S. Consulate-Vladivostok (Russ.) 1 is a store manager in Tucson (Balk.) 1 works for an NGO in Prague (Ukr.), having turned down a Fascell for US Embassy-Kyiv Paper Topics: "Academic and Scientific Libraries in Ukraine: Acquisition of Traditional Materials" "Morality and Spirituality in the Plays of L. Razumovskaia" "Do the Armed State Agencies and Departments of the Russian Federation Influence Policy in the Security Council?" "Barriers to the Establishment of Chukchi Self-Government" "Nuclear Security in the Russian Federation: A Challenge to American Foreign Policy" "Redefining Republican Relationships: Serbia and Montenegro" "How "Wprost" [a counter-culture art group] Influenced the Return of 'Historical Symbolism' and the Romantic Gesture in Contemporary Polish Art" "Burning Corpses in the Street: Russia's Doctrinal Flaws in the Fight for Grozny" "Cross-cutting Cleavages: Explaining Ukraine's Survival" "Economic Reform in Slovenia and Serbia" 2000 Graduates (May, August) 7 MA Graduates 5 in Russian Studies 1 in Balkan Studies 1 in Polish Studies Of these 7: 1 is an FAO (Russ.), assigned to On-Site Inspection Agency, Stuttgart 1 is continuing for a PhD in History (Russ.) 1 is working on an Master's in Public Administration (Balk./Bulg.) 1 teaches at the Monterey Institute of International Studies (Pol.) 1 has returned home to take over a family business which does business in Russia (Russ.) 1 is completing a PhD in Russian History (Russ.) 1 is looking for himself Paper Topics: "The March to Pristina: Mission Accomplished?" "The Provincialization of Russia by Moscow" "The Prospects for Public Administration in Bulgaria on the Brink of the New Millennium" "Amending the ABM Treay and Russia's Security" "Solidarity's Last Stand: The Conflict over the Gdansk Shipyard" "Repression of Religion in Russia" "'Negative Phenomena': Soviet Press Coverage of the 1986 Alma-Ata Ethnic Riots" We expect an additional 3 REES students to receive MA degrees in December 2000; of these 2 are FAOs and will have military assignments; one will go on for the PhD degree in History. Our program does not focus on undergraduates, offering a co-major in REES and a traditional discipline. In 1999 we had 12 co-majors, and in 2000, 11. KU awarded 1,356 MA degrees in 1999 From bougakov at MAIL.RU Sat Jun 17 11:41:10 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 15:41:10 +0400 Subject: Millionaire game - troubleshooting Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, who have tried to run Millionaire game or acess its website, As far as I understand, some of you have had difficulties running it using US version of MS Office. The game works fine under my Office 97 Professional (Russian Edition). But the problem occurs because Russian version of Visual Basic programming language has some differences with the American one. I am terribly sorry that I haven't tested it using Pan-european or American version of Excel before recommending this game to you. And the website of this game is http://lUck.xelon.ru not http://lick.xelon.ru - I've made a typo Sorry many many times!!!!! Please forgive me for my mistakes!!!! Sincerely yours, Alexandre Bougakov Student of the sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My website is http://SocioLink.narod.ru/ (thousands of sociology related links on the Web - in Russian, Microsoft Internet Explorer 4 or higher is required) My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Sat Jun 17 16:01:24 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:01:24 EDT Subject: Czeslaw Milosz' "A Tretise on Literature" Message-ID: A couple of months ago I heard Czeslaw Milosz and Robert Haas discuss at Stanford Haas' translation of Milosz' "A Treatise on Literature" (?title?) Unfortunately I neglected to write down the name of the publisher. Does anyone know who published the translation/where it can be found? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mglevine at EMAIL.UNC.EDU Sat Jun 17 17:20:39 2000 From: mglevine at EMAIL.UNC.EDU (Madeline G. Levine) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:20:39 -0600 Subject: Milosz Translation Message-ID: Milosz's "Treaty on Poetry" (Traktat poetycki), in his and Robert Hass's translation, is still in press. Look for it to appear later this year. Madeline Levine UNC, Chapel Hill ----- Original Message ----- From: Leslie Farmer To: Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2000 10:01 AM Subject: Czeslaw Milosz' "A Tretise on Literature" > A couple of months ago I heard Czeslaw Milosz and Robert Haas discuss at > Stanford Haas' translation of Milosz' "A Treatise on Literature" (?title?) > Unfortunately I neglected to write down the name of the publisher. Does > anyone know who published the translation/where it can be found? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From LILAC1549 at AOL.COM Sat Jun 17 17:22:14 2000 From: LILAC1549 at AOL.COM (Kristina Efimenko) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 13:22:14 EDT Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: I think Paul Samsonov, of A&M Univ./Texas, had a good point about the current pedagogy not supporting memorization of poetry for a foreign language class. If good pedagogy supported some memorization and this became standard again for teachers to expect that of their students, then students would accept it as normal and be more accepting of this directive. Same for reading, if more was required, then students would do it. In regard to Why students aren't signing up for Russian any more, the problem is not just because students are afraid of having to study more. I did a modest study at a local Phoenix high school where the students have access to more than the usual amount of foreign languages - I mean more than Spanish and French -- they had available : Russian, Japanese, French, and of course Spanish. One of the main reasons sited by students for why they did not take Russian was that they thought it would be harder, but the main reason why they chose the foreign language they did was #1) because they were more familiar with the culture of that language, #2) the language they chose would be more useful to them in a future job. On further interviewing various students, the person who most influenced their decision that Russian would be harder was their counselor. The person who most influenced their decision to take a particular language was a friend or family member. So, my conclusions for Russian teachers, or other community Russophiles, would be : to increase awareness and appreciation of the richness of Russian culture -- in schools by speaking to individual teachers and counselors, by asking to visit English, Economics, History, Geography, and Government classes to relate current happenings in Russia ( and related former Soviet Union countries who still use Russian language) or take in cultural enrichment regarding an author - photos, articles from Russian Life magazine, articles from our newspaper, classical music tapes on loan, paintings, slides, etc. to get the culture out there to the common people who do not feel at all familiar with, nor any interest in, Russian culture. I, too, am extremely frustrated with the lack of interest in our educational system promoting the study of Russian language and culture. There is a short covering of Russian history in most high school history courses, but students' exposure to things Russian has to begin much sooner - in grade school. When my daughter was in 6th grade in 1991, her textbooks were still saying the the Soviet Union existed, even after the coup, and neither her teacher nor the two other sixth grade teachers felt comfortable relating the recent events. So, I presented lessons to three 6th grade classrooms about the changes and the students labeled the names of the newly independent countries formed after the breakup. I also gave them a quick introductory Russian language lesson : the alphabet, some key phrases - greetings, and how they were spelled in the cyrillic. Every opportunity, as my children were growing up, they took peroshky. When I was a music appreciation volunteer, I pointed out on the map particularly where Russia was ( and Ukraine, since that is where my husband is from). Can you realize that when my husband's cousin visited from Czech Republic, my daughter's teacher ( who is considered one of the top teachers) repeatedly asked my husband's cousin, " Isn't the Czeck Republic part of Russia - and didn't it used to be a part of Russia?" She answered, "No." three times, to no avail. Old preconceptions die hard. I big publicity campaign must be waged with the public about places in Eastern Europe, the Balkins, and all areas of the former Soviet Union, places we take for granted that people should be knowledgable about and even be interested in, when in fact most do not have any knowledge of , or interest in. And Russian professors at universities need to get better organized and be more supportive of the few teachers who are still trying to teach Russian. At AZLA conference ( in Arizona), I notice that there is consistently no mention of Russian. There is even more involvement of the Chinese or Japanese languages than there is of Russian. Professors seem to be lost in discussing literary points of Russian literature than in any present day cultural happenings. Do college campuses even take advantage of the influx of Russian speaking immigrants to visit their classes and engage students learning the language in meaningful dialogue? A lot of time is spent in college Russian classes memorizing poetry and translating poetry. Doing some of this is good, I believe, but some real conversation with real Russians would invigorate any program. And college professors who "push" future student teachers of foreign language to use the communicative approach almost exclusively and practicly be afraid to get into grammar in any logically organized fashion is frowned upon. Then when the high school students come to college to continue the study of that language, finally at some stage later than the first year course, students are finally given more grammar and too much memorization of poetry. The two are not in agreement. I could go on and on..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Sat Jun 17 17:57:28 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:57:28 -0500 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore Message-ID: > I think Paul Samsonov, of A&M Univ./Texas, had a good point about the current > pedagogy not supporting memorization of poetry for a foreign language class. > If good pedagogy supported some memorization and this became standard again > for teachers to expect that of their students, then students would accept it > as normal and be more accepting of this directive. Same for reading, if more > was required, then students would do it. Thank you for your input Kristina! You have hit some "touchy" issues. Before coming up with the syllabus, we have to identify what students studying Russian really need. Do they need knowledge of the Russian culture and literature (or acquaintance with it?). In this canse most of the class can be more effectively taught in English and only some small parts would envolve Russian for the cultural and linguistic flavor. Do they need high oral proficiency and interpreter skills? In this case a serious and intensive course should be offered with intense memorization enhancement techniques, with a well-balanced combination of grammar, communication and trasnlation. In this case an entirely "student-centered" approach may not be enough. A serious course designed to produce a proficient Russian speaker and even translator is too daunting a task. In my practice with military students who have completed the DLI, I realized that most of them were thankful to their demanding Russian teachers for their rigorous teaching. The requirements were high, the teaching was almost entirely teacher-controlled but the results were impressive. In a normal school or university setting a rigorous Russian program may seem a bit unrealistic. Personally I would be happy to teach 10-15 people for a couple of years on a daily basis using whatever methods I know. By the end of the day these students would be really proficient in Russian. But is there a demand for such a course? On the political arena we can notice a change of attitudes to Russia. When it was an "evil empire" (when translated into Russian it sounds 100 times more sinister - "imperija zla" - empire of the evil ruled by the evil), Russian in the USA thrived on federal support. Ironically, Russia has not been removed from the position of #1 enemy of the West, and the newly-proposed missile defense system has nothing to do with the "terrorist threat" (are there any sober-minded people who would think that the USA could be attacked by missiles launched by a bunch of terrorists?). Unfortunately, though Russia has stepped down as superpower it has not become a friendly country, which is not only USA's fault. There are too influential forces in Russia whose only RAISON D'ETRE is Russia's oppostion to the West. So, on the one hand potential Russian students are not attracted by Russian courses because Russian has seized to be "the defense language", on the other hand, Russia is still an unfriendly country not offering many business opportunities to a US graduate. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (409) 862-7771 (lab) (409) 862-9152 (home) fax (409) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yspigak at MINDSPRING.COM Sun Jun 18 04:37:02 2000 From: yspigak at MINDSPRING.COM (Yelena Spivak) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 21:37:02 -0700 Subject: Ukrainian Books Message-ID: Solvay is a small town , 10 minutes from Syracuse NY. Address is: Hazard Middle School, Hazard Street, Solvay, NY, !3209 Director of a special programs name is Fill Masterlio. I didn't have a chance to ask them if they would be able to pay for delivery, but if there is enough books for Solvay, I can probably arrange it. Thanks, Yelena -----Original Message----- From: Kat Tancock To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Date: Friday, June 16, 2000 8:54 AM Subject: Re: Ukrainian Books >Hello, > >Where exactly is Solvay? > >I'll definitely keep you in mind. > >Kat >-- >Kat Tancock >UVic CALL Facility >http://web.uvic.ca/langcen >tancockk at uvic.ca > >> From: Yelena Spivak >> Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list >> >> Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2000 18:59:42 -0700 >> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >> Subject: Re: Ukrainian Books >> >> Hi, Kat. I have read about those books in Ukrainian and thought that it >> might be a good idea to offer them to the Solvay School Library. In Solvay >> School district there are about 150 students from Ukraine and I am sure >> they will appreciate this gift. If you would like to I can ask if school >> could cover mailing expenses. Thanks, Yelena >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Kat Tancock >> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >> Date: Thursday, June 15, 2000 9:34 AM >> Subject: Ukrainian Books >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> The University of Victoria Russian Course Union recently had a number >> (read: >>> boxes) of Ukrainian books - both in Ukrainian and in English, but mostly in >>> Ukrainian - donated to us. Since we don't offer Ukrainian Studies here and >>> we have limited space in our Reading Room, we are hoping to give them to >>> someone who would be able to use them. >>> >>> We were thinking that perhaps there is a school in Alberta, perhaps, or >>> somewhere which would have need of these books and offer to pay the postage >>> for us to send them. >>> >>> Does anyone have any clues as to who would want these books? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Kat >>> -- >>> Kat Tancock >>> UVic CALL Facility >>> http://web.uvic.ca/langcen >>> tancockk at uvic.ca >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >>> http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM Sun Jun 18 12:36:06 2000 From: kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM (richard tomback) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 08:36:06 -0400 Subject: Ukrainian Books Message-ID: Dear Kat; Any news about those books in Ukranian I e mailed you about a few days ago? Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From onurb at SWISSONLINE.CH Sun Jun 18 14:29:42 2000 From: onurb at SWISSONLINE.CH (Bruno Aeschbacher) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 16:29:42 +0200 Subject: INFO: URL Russian Media In-Reply-To: <200006180836_MC2-A918-1D2E@compuserve.com> Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, Just bumped into this site with lots of links to Russian (online) media: http://www.media-ru.com/ Greetings, Bruno Aeschbacher Geneva, Switzerland mailto:onurb at swissonline.ch http://www.homepage.swissonline.ch/onurb ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA Sun Jun 18 23:16:25 2000 From: natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA (Natalia Pylypiuk) Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 17:16:25 -0600 Subject: Project Management Adviser with Ukrainian-language skills Message-ID: Dear Colleagues and Students, Kindly advertise the following to all potential candidates. Please direct inquiries to Mr. Roger Roy (Commonwealth of Learning); see address below. Na vse dobre, Natalia Pylypiuk, President Canadian Association of Slavists |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||| ||||||||||||||||||| >From: Roger Roy >Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 11:43:47 -0700 > >I appreciate your help in advertising our >requirement for a distance learning specialist with some fluency in >Ukrainian. > >Unfortnately we are on an extremely tight schedule, and we would need to >hear back from your colleagues by Thursday, June 22nd so we can complete our >project submission. > >The Project Management Adviser (PMA) position for Ukraine calls for an >experienced specialist in the field of distance learning and management to >set up a Distance Learning Center in Kiev in cooperation with the Ukrainian >Director of the new Center. The PMA will help manage the establishment and >operation of the new center, provide leadership and guidance to a small >staff and assist in developing a business plan and operationalize the plan >with Center staff to achieve financial and legal self-sustainability. >Specific responsibilities include the developing of a reliable system to >ensure that clients' training needs are met, the establishing of a >monitoring and evaluation system to assess the quality of Center services, >liaison with government officials nationally and internationally as well as >the private sector, helping to develp a professional marketing and promotion >program for the Center to achieve financial self-sufficiency over time, >developing a proper transparent reporting system for Center donors, and to >assisting in the development of fundraising initiatives for the Center and >for future distance learning facilities elsewhere in Ukraine. > >The ideal candidate will have at least five years of experience in the field >of distance learning, ideally in a management capacity, a working knowledge >of communications technology, good communications, interpersonal and >team-membership skills and an ability to work in a challenging environment >(previous experience in Ukraine or Eastern/Central Europe would be >preferable), and some Ukranian language capability is very desirable. > >The terms of the Consultancy are such that the PMA will be required for >varying periods over a year at least, and lengths of stay in the Ukraine >will likely vary from several weeks to several months at a time, depending >on project needs. The assignment would commence as quickly as possible. > >Thanks for your help. > >With best regards, > >Roger F. Roy >Principal, International Partnerships >COL International >Tel 604-775-8223 >roy at col.org >www.col.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From konecny at USC.EDU Mon Jun 19 18:35:37 2000 From: konecny at USC.EDU (Mark Konecny) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 11:35:37 -0700 Subject: Leninka Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, I just received an email from a friend in Moscow. He said that the (formerly known as) Lenin Library is no longer providing access to the main collection because of major renovation to the library. This closing will remain in effect until "December or so." Has anyone else heard about this? Any additional information on why or what? I also heard that Kamkin has closed, but their website is still up. Does anyone know what is going on with them? Thanks, Mark Konecny, Institute of Modern Russian Culture ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From candide at MAIL.IO.COM Mon Jun 19 18:57:08 2000 From: candide at MAIL.IO.COM (Pangloss Publishing) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 13:57:08 -0500 Subject: Leninka In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000619113537.007df870@rcf.usc.edu> Message-ID: They're still filling orders and still reordering things they've run out of. Jane Chamberlain >Dear Seelangers, > >I just received an email from a friend in Moscow. He said that the >(formerly known as) Lenin Library is no longer providing access to the main >collection because of major renovation to the library. This closing will >remain in effect until "December or so." Has anyone else heard about this? >Any additional information on why or what? > I also heard that Kamkin has closed, but their website is still >up. Does >anyone know what is going on with them? > >Thanks, Mark Konecny, Institute of Modern Russian Culture > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU Mon Jun 19 19:00:54 2000 From: rrobin at GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:00:54 -0400 Subject: Call for papers: AATSEEL - Reading and Listening Message-ID: Hello, AATSEEL 2000 participants! We're still looking for panelists for the Focus on Reading and Listening Skills panel. If you wish to submit an abstract, please do so by August 1. Submit to Professor William J. Comer Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures Wescoe Hall 2134 University of Kansas Lawrence, KS 66045 Telephone: 785-864-3313 Fax: 785-864-4298 Email: wjcomer at ukans.edu Sincerely, Richard Robin, Panel Chair -- Richard Robin - http://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~rrobin German and Slavic Dept. The George Washington University WASHINGTON, DC 20052 Can read HTML mail. Читаю по-русски в любой кодировке. Chitayu po-russki v lyuboi kodirovke. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ingersoll at COLUMBIA.EDU Mon Jun 19 19:09:39 2000 From: ingersoll at COLUMBIA.EDU (Jared Ingersoll) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 15:09:39 -0400 Subject: Kamkin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark and interested Seelangovtsy, The Victor Kamkin Bookstore in New York is closed. They continue to function and (presumably) plan to continue from their main office in Maryland. -- Jared Ingersoll Ph: 212-854-4701 Slavic Librarian Fx: 212-854-3834 Columbia University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From esjogren at NC.RR.COM Mon Jun 19 17:05:48 2000 From: esjogren at NC.RR.COM (Ernie Sjogren) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 17:05:48 -0000 Subject: Leninka Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mark Konecny To: Sent: Monday, June 19, 2000 6:35 PM Subject: Leninka > I also heard that Kamkin has closed, but their website is still up. Does > anyone know what is going on with them? > The NY, NY, Kamkin store closed in late May. The Rockville, MD, store and the mail-order business are still in operation. -- Ernie Sjogren ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From itl1033 at ONLINE.KHARKOV.UA Mon Jun 19 06:48:18 2000 From: itl1033 at ONLINE.KHARKOV.UA (A.Str) Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 09:48:18 +0300 Subject: prices Message-ID: Hello, Seelangers I heard in the BBC the following expression: "...prices might be cheaper..." Well, I hear frequently that sort of expressions in my native language (Russian). I don't want to look like a snob but I really feel myself a bit funny when I hear this. I think that goods may be cheaper, services may be cheaper, I'm not sure, but maybe even humor may be cheaper (it certainly does in Russian!). But prices? they may be bigger or smaller, higher or lower, but cheaper...? What do you think? Aleksander Stratienko ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From srogosin at NETZERO.NET Tue Jun 20 04:36:00 2000 From: srogosin at NETZERO.NET (Serge Rogosin) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 00:36:00 -0400 Subject: Institut lingvisticheskikh issledovanii in SPB Message-ID: Does anyone on the list know someone at the Institut lingvisticheskikh issledovanii in St. Petersburg who was access to the lexical/citation card files of the Russian language and might be willing to look up two words for me? Any assistance or advice would be greatly appreciated. Serge Rogosin _________________ 93-49 222 Street Queens Village, NY 11428 tel. & fax (718)479-2881 e-mail: srogosin at netzero.net sergerogosin at hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From goscilo+ at PITT.EDU Tue Jun 20 12:05:31 2000 From: goscilo+ at PITT.EDU (Helena Goscilo) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:05:31 -0400 Subject: prices In-Reply-To: <000001bfda69$f5aadca0$0100007f@localhost.ticom.net> Message-ID: Just as there are gradations of sobriety, so there are gradations of correctness. STRICTLY correct = "higher or lower prices" ("bigger and smaller" is wrong). "Cheaper and more expensive prices" seems to be accepted nowadays, though it is, of course, tautological (higher prices=more expensive). An analogous tautology, almost universally invoked nowadays, is "the reason why," which also isn't, strictly speaking, correct. Correct="the reason that," which is an equivalent for "why," but one in a million native speakers, I suspect, observes that rule. Helena Goscilo, non-native --On Monday, June 19, 2000, 9:48 AM +0300 "A.Str" wrote:r > Hello, Seelangers > > I heard in the BBC the following expression: "...prices might be > cheaper..." Well, I hear frequently that sort of expressions in my native > language (Russian). I don't want to look like a snob but I really > feel myself a bit funny when I hear this. I think that goods may > be cheaper, services may be cheaper, I'm not sure, but maybe even > humor may be cheaper (it certainly does in Russian!). But prices? > they may be bigger or smaller, higher or lower, but cheaper...? > What do you think? > > Aleksander Stratienko > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elspeth at FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU Tue Jun 20 13:10:18 2000 From: elspeth at FALCON.CC.UKANS.EDU (Elizabeth B. Naime) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 08:10:18 -0500 Subject: prices In-Reply-To: <000001bfda69$f5aadca0$0100007f@localhost.ticom.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 Jun 2000, A.Str wrote: > I heard in the BBC the following expression: "...prices might be cheaper..." OOoh, a question for native speakers of English! This I actually feel competent to answer! It grates on my ear. I believe you are correct that the thing which has a price can be cheaper or dearer, but not the price itself. That's still my own interpretation, and it's still the textbook answer. However, I have begun to hear this phrase and others like it, so I think from a descriptive standpoint it may be coming into the language, just as the distinction between fewer and less is being lost. I don't have to like it to perceive that many native speakers *are* using it. Clear as mud? Elizabeth Naime ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at HOME.COM Tue Jun 20 14:44:47 2000 From: asred at HOME.COM (Steve Marder) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:44:47 -0400 Subject: prices Message-ID: > I heard in the BBC the following expression: "...prices might be cheaper..." > Well, I hear frequently that sort of expressions in my native > language (Russian). I don't want to look like a snob but I really > feel myself a bit funny when I hear this. I think that goods may > be cheaper, services may be cheaper, I'm not sure, but maybe even > humor may be cheaper (it certainly does in Russian!). But prices? > they may be bigger or smaller, higher or lower, but cheaper...? > What do you think? Your linguistic sensitivities are to be applauded, but the fact remains that, like it or not, we are stuck with such usages. The Web abounds with them: "cheaper prices" 1. cheaper prices, higher quality 2. Opening the way for cheaper gas prices 3. You'll get cheaper prices for same drugs at a vet pharmacy By "logical" extension -- "cheapest prices": 1. Your gateway to Europe's finest hotels at the cheapest prices 2. The cheapest prices around 3. Compare the top online florist sites for the cheapest prices on flower ordering and delivery And if we have "cheaper prices," why not "more expensive prices"? Indeed: 1. I can't afford right now to pay the more expensive prices 2. We found that sites such as Travelocity and Microsoft's Expedia generally offered cheaper prices for domestic travel, but more expensive prices for foreign routes 3. Because I had been overseas, I now had to pay the more expensive prices at restaurants and hotels. And once again by "logical" extension -- "most expensive prices": 1. What I found were the most expensive prices of any source I had investigated on virtually every piece of hardware... in the store 2. Desserts: deep dish apple pie, pecan pie, key lime pie, ice cream and mud pie with the most expensive prices at $4.95 3. The present NC government, which does not have to constantly tread on its toes, like the weak coalition governments before it, can seriously look at how the Nepalese, one of the poorest people in the world, have to pay the most expensive prices for basic essentials like petroleum products and electricity. Aleksander, you're NOT a snob! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dpbrowne+ at PITT.EDU Wed Jun 21 02:04:41 2000 From: dpbrowne+ at PITT.EDU (Devin Browne) Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 22:04:41 -0400 Subject: Request for Help for Tashkent Students (fwd) Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Date: Tue, Jun 20, 2000 2:16 PM -0700rFrom: Center for Civil Society International rTo: CivilSoc rSubject: [CivilSoc] Request for Help for Tashkent Studentsr Joanne Young, vice-president of the Seattle-Tashkent Sister City Association, has forwarded this request from Tashkent. Any list members with suggestions for help should respond directly to Mr. William R. Daughtridge . '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' Fr: Bill Daughtridge, Guidance Counselor Tashkent International School Re: Request for Help for Uzbekistan students I am contacting you on behalf of three students in our school. One year ago, we started a scholarship program which allows local students to attend our expensive private school without paying any tuition or fees. We accepted three students into our 11th grade class, chosen from a total of 19 candidates on the basis of their scores on a practice ACT exam and personal interviews. They have performed admirably well; in fact, two of the three are now going into 12th grade competing for #1 and #2 in the class in terms of their GPA. This is all well and good but there is a BIG problem looming on the horizon: these young people come from families with incomes of $1,500 per YEAR or less. Of the 3,800 accredited colleges and universities in the U.S.A., only 240 offer financial aid of any kind to undergraduate foreign students. Even if these kids are lucky enough to get a 50% scholarship offer, typically that means their families would still have to prove that they can pay 5-10 times their annual income for the next four years, or the college/university will never issue the I-20 form for them to get their student visa. Obviously, this is impossible. Would you know of any way to obtain financial help for these kids? They need sponsors who will formally commit to making up the difference in costs after they get scholarships--if they get scholarships--in order for them to come to the U.S.A. to study after graduating from our school. Organizations or individuals willing to sponsor them could have the privilege of having one of these exceptional Uzbek students come to study in their region! Perhaps some individuals could help with a sponsorship, even if only partially. Perhaps other benevolent, charitable organizations would be willing to do this. I would be grateful for suggestions of any ways to help these kids. I look forward to hearing from you soon. Sincerely, Bill Daughtridge bill at tis.uz Guidance Counselor Tashkent International School Tashkent, Uzbekistan *---------------------------------------------------------------------* CivilSoc is a service provided to more than 1,600 subscribers worldwide by Center for Civil Society International in association with Friends & Partners. For more information about civic initiatives in Eurasia, please visit our Web site: http://www.friends-partners.org/ccsi/ CivilSoc archives: http://www.friends-partners.org/~ccsi/archives.htm There are no restrictions on copying messages. However, if you reproduce this message, please credit Center for Civil Society International (or CCSI) as the source. _______________________________________________ CivilSoc mailing list CivilSoc at friends-partners.org http://fpmail.friends-partners.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/civilsoc ---------- End Forwarded Message ----------r Devin P Browne dpbrowne+ at pitt.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Wed Jun 21 10:12:24 2000 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:12:24 +0100 Subject: prices Message-ID: There is surely something wrong here. Complaints about declining standards in English usage on the BBC are supposed to come from that anonymous figure of British folk tradition "Disgusted" of Tunbridge Wells,* not SEELANGS readers in Kharkov. For what it is worth, I would not use that expression, and I would not recommend non-native speakers (who, as always, are allowed fewer liberties than native-speakers) to do so; my wife, however, who is often more conservative (linguistically!) than I am, saw nothing wrong with it. It might be worth noting that the BBC cannot always be relied on as a source of infallible guidance on correct usage. A few days ago a newsreader on BBC Radio Scotland read out the name of North Korean President Kim Jong Il as Kim Jong the Second. John Dunn. *Note for non-British readers: Tunbridge Wells is a small town to the South of London, exclusively inhabited, according to legend, by retired army officers and others of unimpeachably conservative views. >Hello, Seelangers > >I heard in the BBC the following expression: "...prices might be cheaper..." >Well, I hear frequently that sort of expressions in my native >language (Russian). I don't want to look like a snob but I really >feel myself a bit funny when I hear this. I think that goods may >be cheaper, services may be cheaper, I'm not sure, but maybe even >humor may be cheaper (it certainly does in Russian!). But prices? >they may be bigger or smaller, higher or lower, but cheaper...? >What do you think? > >Aleksander Stratienko > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Dunn Department of Slavonic Languages Hetherington Building University of Glasgow Glasgow G12 8RS Great Britain Telephone (+44) 141 330-5591 Fax (+44) 141 330-5593 e-mail J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cn29 at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed Jun 21 12:58:03 2000 From: cn29 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Catharine Nepomnyashchy) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:58:03 -0400 Subject: Why students do not study Russian anymore In-Reply-To: <6e.4816e9.267d0dc6@aol.com> Message-ID: Jumping a bit belatedly into this discussion, I would like to address an important point raised in postings by Sibelan Forrester and Kristina Efimenko: advising. There is ample evidence that our colleagues in other disciplines and administrators who advise incoming college students do discourage them from taking Russian (at least in their freshman year), because it is "hard." To counter this trend, my colleagues and I in the Barnard College Slavic Department took up advising freshmen (or first-year students, as we call them at Barnard) four years ago. We were, at our request, given mostly students who had either studied Russian in high school or expressed interest in studying Russian. Our first class of advisees graduated in May, and the results of this "intervention" were striking: we had seven Russian majors (including literature majors, Russian Regional Studies Majors, and double majors with other disciplines), up from a low of zero the preceding year. We continue to advise first-year students, and we continue to see a good crop of majors in our future. I would add that Barnard has long had a Regional Studies (formerly Soviet Studies) Major, which was earlier housed in the Political Science Department, but moved about six years ago to the Slavic Department. Students in that major take four years of Russian, two literature courses, two history courses, one political science, one "other" (Russian related), and two seminars of senior thesis work. Finally, after years of being largely shunned by the growing emigre population at Barnard, we are now seeing more and more native speakers in our courses. Without going into the probable reasons for this, I would say that a number of emigres have found a "major niche" in our department by opting for a Comparative Literature major (with Russian as one of their languages and one of their two major advisors in our department) or for a double major in Russian and, for example, political science. In sum, then, our experience has suggested that Slavic Departments today can improve enrollments and number of majors by taking an active role in advising incoming students, creating regional studies majors, and encouraging double majors with other disciplines. Finally, let me say a word in defense of our current students. Personally I find them much more intellectually sophisticated and skeptical than I was in college and far more willing to challenge conventions and break new ground in their work. While not all aspects of "student-centered" approaches to education are always good, at its best it encourages students to engage, rather than simply "memorize" ideas. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From konecny at USC.EDU Wed Jun 21 15:59:55 2000 From: konecny at USC.EDU (Mark Konecny) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:59:55 -0700 Subject: ISPs in Russia and elsewhere Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, I have an interesting problem that the list may be able to solve for me. A friend of mine based in the Netherlands travels frequently to the US, the Pacific and to Russia, and she would like to remain in email contact. She is currently with Compuserve, which was, until recently, ideal because of local dialup nodes everywhere. Compuserve has discontinued local dialup access in much of Eastern Europe including Moscow making email a very expensive proposition. My questions are as follows: Are there isps which provide worldwide local dialups including Moscow/SP? Is there a web-retrieval system from which you could access existing email accounts at a cyber cafe or library? Is there a simple way to telnet to the compuserve account? I'm afraid if the process is elaborate she will not do it. Are there any alternatives to the scenario which I have described? I'm sure someone has an elegant means of dealing with this inconvenience. Thanks, Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Wed Jun 21 16:10:27 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 09:10:27 -0700 Subject: ISPs in Russia and elsewhere In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000621085955.0080e590@rcf.usc.edu> Message-ID: If her regular mail is pop mail, then the simplest way for her to access it would probably be through a web mail account - hotmail or yahoo, for instance. Most web mail systems have settings for checking pop mail accounts, and they are then easily accessible from any computer with browsing capabilities. Kat -- Kat Tancock UVic CALL Facility http://web.uvic.ca/langcen tancockk at uvic.ca > From: Mark Konecny > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 08:59:55 -0700 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: ISPs in Russia and elsewhere > > Dear Seelangers, > > I have an interesting problem that the list may be able to solve for me. A > friend of mine based in the Netherlands travels frequently to the US, the > Pacific and to Russia, and she would like to remain in email contact. She > is currently with Compuserve, which was, until recently, ideal because of > local dialup nodes everywhere. Compuserve has discontinued local dialup > access in much of Eastern Europe including Moscow making email a very > expensive proposition. My questions are as follows: > Are there isps which provide worldwide local dialups including Moscow/SP? > Is there a web-retrieval system from which you could access existing email > accounts at a cyber cafe or library? > Is there a simple way to telnet to the compuserve account? I'm afraid if > the process is elaborate she will not do it. > Are there any alternatives to the scenario which I have described? I'm sure > someone has an elegant means of dealing with this inconvenience. > > Thanks, Mark > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From d-powelstock at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Jun 21 16:31:48 2000 From: d-powelstock at UCHICAGO.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:31:48 -0500 Subject: ISPs in Russia and elsewhere In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The problem really breaks down into two: (1) Access to one's existing e-mail account, given that one already has some kind of internet access in Russia (through a friend's computer, or a CyberCafe, etc.). This is always possible one way or another. A lot of people seem not to realize that any popmail account can be accessed from any Web connection. Kat Tancock's solution is the most elegant. Certain Webmail sites will even give you an account for free or, rather, in exchange for being bombarded by ads on their site. Kat mentions Hotmail & Yahoo. There is also Juno. If none of these suit, try searching for "free e-mail" on the Web. Or perhaps another Seelanger has experience with a specific service. As Kat suggests, look for a service that allows you to set up access to your existing account--such access makes you truly independent of any software or connection limitations, save that you need to have a browser and internet connection. (2) Getting internet access. One can sign up (and pay for!) AT&T Internet Service(http://www.attbusiness.net/regctr/index.html), but this is only worthwhile if your friend anticipates wanting physically to link her computer by modem and phone line to the Net. This is overkill if all she wants to do is check & send e-mail from time to time, especially if she doesn't foresee having a reliable jack to plug into on a regular basis. CyberCafes charge to use their connections, but these fees only approach what you would pay for something like ATT when you spend relatively long hours surfing. Plus, with CyberCafes, you leave all the connection issues and hassles to them. Good luck! David P. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Wed Jun 21 16:41:39 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 11:41:39 -0500 Subject: Russian spellcheck Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers' I have just installed the Russian spellcheck. Works great! I never realized I was making so many typos. If you want it installed, just let me know, I will e-mail it to you with the instructions (dead easy!) With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (979) 862-7771 (lab) (979) 862-9152 (home) fax (979) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bougakov at MAIL.RU Wed Jun 21 18:00:44 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 22:00:44 +0400 Subject: ISPs in Russia and elsewhere Message-ID: Mark, If she travels with notebook, advise her to buy a $5 or $10 scratch-card in Moscow from MTU (http://dialup.mtu.ru), Cityline (www.cityline.ru), Russia-On-Line (www.online.ru), Comstar (http://dp.comstar.ru) or any other provider. All she needs is the 20 Rub. (~$1) adapter to plug the standard RJ-45 telephone cable from her modem into the telephone line connector. The only thing she should keep in mind that Russian telephone lines use pulse, not tone dialing mode. Average prices for the dialup acess in Moscow are $0,9 (day) and $0,33 (night), including taxes. It is much ceaper and easier than to use ISPs, which provide worldwide access. The full list of Russian ISPs and Moscow internet-cafes is available at www.provider.net.ru. Then she can acess her POP mailbox using any existing web-based mail system. The most popular Russian one is Mail.ru, but she can use Hotmail.com or FreeMail.Web.de. All of these systems can gather email messages from POP mailboxes around the world and provide easy-to-use interface. All she needs is to register new account and spend two minutes of time configuring it. Sincerely yours, Alexandre Bougakov Student of the sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My website is http://SocioLink.narod.ru/ (thousands of sociology related links on the Web - in Russian, Microsoft Internet Explorer 4 or higher is required) My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) -----Original Message----- From: Mark Konecny [SMTP:konecny at USC.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 8:00 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: ISPs in Russia and elsewhere Dear Seelangers, I have an interesting problem that the list may be able to solve for me. A friend of mine based in the Netherlands travels frequently to the US, the Pacific and to Russia, and she would like to remain in email contact. She is currently with Compuserve, which was, until recently, ideal because of local dialup nodes everywhere. Compuserve has discontinued local dialup access in much of Eastern Europe including Moscow making email a very expensive proposition. My questions are as follows: Are there isps which provide worldwide local dialups including Moscow/SP? Is there a web-retrieval system from which you could access existing email accounts at a cyber cafe or library? Is there a simple way to telnet to the compuserve account? I'm afraid if the process is elaborate she will not do it. Are there any alternatives to the scenario which I have described? I'm sure someone has an elegant means of dealing with this inconvenience. Thanks, Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Wed Jun 21 19:45:29 2000 From: cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (curt fredric woolhiser) Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 14:45:29 -0500 Subject: Belarusian Studies Seminar Message-ID: The Fifth International Belarusian Studies Seminar The School of Belarusian Studies at Belarusian State University invites you to take part in its Fifth International Belarusian Studies Seminar, September 5-19, 2000. Courses are available for specialists, teaching staff, postgraduates, students, writers, translators, journalists and others who would like to learn more about the Belarusian language, literature, history and culture. The purpose of the seminar is Belarusian language learning and obtaining a deeper knowledge of Belarusian culture, history and literature. The seminar includes: a) language courses for beginners, intermediate and advanced learners; b) a practical course in philological text analysis for advanced learners; c) lectures on linguistics, the history of literature and literary criticism, ethnology, lingua-cultural studies; d) individual consultations with leading Belarusian scholars (please indicate the approximate topic(s) of the consultations). e) participation in round-table discussions on urgent questions of the Belarusian language, literature, history and culture. Excursions and cultural program: The program of the seminar includes sightseeing tours, visiting museums and historical sites in Belarus, meetings with Belarusian writers and experts in Belarusian culture, art and science. Applications: Those wishing to participate in the Fifth Belarusian Studies Seminar should send us a letter of application before July 1, 2000, in which they should provide their name, surname, country, education, occupation, the level of the language course chosen, and for advanced students - the topic(s) for individual consultations. Invitations for the seminar will be mailed in July, 2000.The cost of the entire course is US$ 75 for students and US$ 150 for other participants. This amount does not include travel expenses, food and accommodations (student hostel or hotel). Address: School of Belarusian Studies 31, K.Marx Str., Minsk, Belarus, 220050 Tel./Fax (017) 227-65-83, 227-85-38 Tel. (017) 222-31-42 E-mail: sb at phyl.bsu.unibel.by Zinaida Badzevich, Director of Belarusian Studies ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From onurb at SWISSONLINE.CH Thu Jun 22 09:32:09 2000 From: onurb at SWISSONLINE.CH (Bruno Aeschbacher) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:32:09 +0200 Subject: ISPs in Russia and elsewhere In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.32.20000621085955.0080e590@rcf.usc.edu> Message-ID: There is a very handy solution: any existing POP3 email account can be accessed from anywhere with http://www.mailstart.com. Simply enter your e-mail address and the password, and that's it. Greetings, Bruno Aeschbacher Geneva, Switzerland mailto:onurb at swissonline.ch http://www.homepage.swissonline.ch/onurb ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From j.m.andrew at LANG.KEELE.AC.UK Thu Jun 22 14:04:56 2000 From: j.m.andrew at LANG.KEELE.AC.UK (J.M. Andrew) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:04:56 +0100 Subject: Platonov Conference Message-ID: Dear Colleague 19 June 2000 We are pleased to enclose the programme and booking form for the next Neo-Formalist Conference, to be held at Mansfield College, Oxford on 11-12 September. Please return the booking form as soon as possible, and by Friday 18 August at the latest. Please also note that Panel VI is joint with the Twentieth Century Literature Group the programme of which extends until 4.00 on Wednesday 13 September. If you are attending both conferences please make sure that you do not double book for lunch and tea on Tuesday 12 September. A HUNDRED YEARS OF ANDREI PLATONOV Monday 11 September 12.30 Lunch 1.30 Opening Session Valery Vyugin (St Petersburg): The Poetics of Enigma and Enigma of Poetics 2.30 Panel I Robin Chandler (London): Listening to Platonov Olga Meerson (Georgetown): Platonov's Refamiliarization: Perils and Potencies of Perceptive Inertia Robert Hodel (Hamburg): The Demodalizing of Utterance: Chekhov, Platonov, Prigov Thomas Seifrid (Southern California): Forms of Belatedness in Platonov's Prose 4.30 Tea 5.00 Panel II Angela Livingstone (Essex): Understandable Song: Music in Chevengur Roger Cockrell (Exeter): Images of the Sky in Chevengur Marina Koch (Paris): The Concept of Emptiness in Platonov's Prose 6.30 Dinner 7.30 Panel III Eric Naiman (Berkeley): Happy Moscow: Lexical Heroes and the Ideological Picaresque Clint Walker (Madison): The Bronze Horseman as a Major Lens for Reading Happy Moscow Hallie White (Boston): Happy Moscow and the Unbearable Present Anat Vernitski (Essex): Women Work, Men Muse: Gender Roles in Platonov's Short Stories Tuesday 12 September 8.00 Breakfast 9.00 Panel IV Thomas Langerak (Amsterdam): City-Planning and Platonov's Kotlovan Dragan Kujundzic (Memphis): Kotlovan and the Idea of Building Hans Guenther (Bielefeld): Platonov and the Utopian Genre 10.30 Coffee 11.00 Panel V Nina Malygina (Moscow): Manuscript Variants of the Story O potukhshei lampe Il'yicha Audun Morch (Oslo): Irony and Satire in Platonov and Dostoevsky: Gorod Gradov and Krokodil Natalya Poltavtseva (Moscow): The Pushkinian Text in Platonov Helen Tolstoy (Jerusalem): To be announced 1.00 Lunch 2.00 Panel VI Hamid Ismailov (London): Platonov's Dzhan as a Sufi Treatise Philip Bullock (Oxford): Platonov and Judaism Emma Widdis (Cambridge): Energetika: Platonov's Electrified Spaces and the Aesthetics of Soviet Montage 3.30 Tea (end of Neo-Formalist Conference) We look forward to seeing you in Oxford. Best wishes, Joe Andrew Angela Livingstone Robert Reid N E O - F O R M A L I S T C I R C L E Conference at Mansfield College, Oxford Monday 11 - Tuesday 12 September 2000 BOOKING FORM The conference will run from lunch on 11 September until tea on 12 September. Please tick whatever facilities you wish and fill in the sections of name, date, etc., then return the form as soon as possible to the address below, with payment made out to "Neo-Formalist Circle", and in any event by 18 August 2000. All pricings are in pounds sterling. A deposit of 10 pounds in advance will be sufficient; it would be of great assistance to us, however, if the full amount could be paid in advance. If you have received this electronically, please print a copy and send back by post. ________________________________________________________________________________ _ 11 September Lunch (10.00) . . . . . . . Tea (0.90) . . . . . . . Dinner (15.90) . . . . . . Bedroom : ensuite (47.00) . . . . . . ordinary (32.90) . . . . . . twin (per person) (30.55) . . . . . . 12 September Breakfast (7.65) . . . . . . . Coffee (0.90) . . . . . . . Lunch (10.00) . . . . . . . Tea (0.90) . . . . . . . Vegetarian Meals Required . . . . . . . . . . . Conference Fee (25.00) . . . . . . (Please tick meals etc. required and please specify if vegetarian or other special requirements) NAME . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . SIGNATURE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (Block capitals) ADDRESS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . DATE . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Please return the completed form with payment to: Neo-Formalist Circle, Department of Russian Studies, Keele University, Keele, Staffs, ST5 5BG, England ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Thu Jun 22 15:53:05 2000 From: cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (curt fredric woolhiser) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:53:05 -0500 Subject: Fwd: Belarusian linguistics mailing list Message-ID: >Delivered-To: cfwoolhiser at mail.utexas.edu >Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 19:37:59 -0500 (CDT) >Reply-To: belarus at belka.cini.utk.edu >Originator: belarus at belka.cini.utk.edu >Sender: belarus at belka.cini.utk.edu >From: Mikola Ramanouski >To: Multiple recipients of list >Subject: "movaznaustva" mailing list >X-Comment: BELARUS issues and communication >Status: > >Hello, > >A new mailing list has been created. > >Name: movaznaustva. >Topic: Belarusan language in its linguistic aspect. >Language: Belarusan; English, Ukrainian, Polish and Russian are also >allowed. >Technical requirements: please use Latin alphabet if you want that >everybody understand you :) > >To subscribe, please send an empty message to >movaznaustva-subscribe at egroups.com > >Welcome :) > >-- >Best regards, > Mikola mailto:miram at history.minsk.by ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenakh at RCCD.CC.CA.US Fri Jun 23 16:10:34 2000 From: elenakh at RCCD.CC.CA.US (Yelena Kobzeva) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 09:10:34 -0700 Subject: Russian spellcheck Message-ID: Pavel, как дела? I would like to have Russian spellchecker. Please let me know how you did it. Also, I am looking for Russian stickers I can put on the key tapes. Are you going home this summer? Elena Kobzeva-Herzog tel:(909)222-8287 elenakh at rccd.cc.ca.us ----- Original Message ----- From: Pavel Samsonov To: Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 9:41 AM Subject: Russian spellcheck > Dear SEELANGers' > > I have just installed the Russian spellcheck. Works great! I never realized > I was making so many typos. > > If you want it installed, just let me know, I will e-mail it to you with the > instructions (dead easy!) > > With compliments, > > Pavel (Paul) Samsonov > EDAD, College of Education, > Texas A&M University > tel. (979) 862-7771 (lab) > (979) 862-9152 (home) > fax (979) 862-4347 > e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Thu Jun 22 16:45:14 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:45:14 -0500 Subject: SPELLCHECK FOR RUSSIAN Message-ID: Dear SEELANGERS! Thank you for your interest to the Russian spellcheck. When I was posting the message offering the progam, I did not realize that there would be so many people willing to receive it. I got so many messages that I am unable to handle all of them! Please pluck up enough patience, I will e-mail you the program (FREE). Just give me some time, please. If you do not receive it by the beginning of the next week, please do not hesitate to contact me again to remind be about the spellcheck. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (979) 862-7771 (lab) (979) 862-9152 (home) fax (979) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sundaram.16 at OSU.EDU Thu Jun 22 18:10:17 2000 From: sundaram.16 at OSU.EDU (Susmita Sundaram) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 14:10:17 -0400 Subject: SPELLCHECK FOR RUSSIAN In-Reply-To: <004401bfdc69$3d927b30$42eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: Please add me to the list of people interested in the spell-check program. Thanks, Susmita. sundaram.16 at osu.edu At 11:45 AM 6/22/00 -0500, you wrote: >Dear SEELANGERS! > >Thank you for your interest to the Russian spellcheck. >When I was posting the message offering the progam, I did not realize that >there would be so many people willing to receive it. I got so many messages >that I am unable to handle all of them! >Please pluck up enough patience, I will e-mail you the program (FREE). >Just give me some time, please. >If you do not receive it by the beginning of the next week, please do not >hesitate to contact me again to remind be about the spellcheck. > >With compliments, > >Pavel (Paul) Samsonov >EDAD, College of Education, >Texas A&M University >tel. (979) 862-7771 (lab) > (979) 862-9152 (home) >fax (979) 862-4347 >e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at GLOBAL.CO.ZA Thu Jun 22 17:15:22 2000 From: atacama at GLOBAL.CO.ZA (atacama) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 19:15:22 +0200 Subject: Keyboard stickers In-Reply-To: <001601bfdd2d$a702ab20$02144fd1@default> Message-ID: Stickers are pretty and you can buy them over the Internet from Russian Life and Panorama. I use koki-pen/ball-point/biro and write myself the Russian letters on the keys. and some people cut out their own cellotape and stick it over. But best is to have a little programme by which you type in phoenetical way - such as - hit the English "R" and you have a Russian "P". This makes typing for us Anglo-educated much much faster, and we do not have to relearn the Soviet key-board. Bye Vera Beljakova Johannesburg >Pavel, >как дела? I would like to have Russian spellchecker. Please let me know how >you did it. Also, I am looking for Russian stickers I can put on the key >tapes. >Are you going home this summer? > >Elena Kobzeva-Herzog >tel:(909)222-8287 >elenakh at rccd.cc.ca.us >----- Original Message ----- >From: Pavel Samsonov >To: >Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 9:41 AM >Subject: Russian spellcheck > > >> Dear SEELANGers' >> >> I have just installed the Russian spellcheck. Works great! I never >realized >> I was making so many typos. >> >> If you want it installed, just let me know, I will e-mail it to you with >the >> instructions (dead easy!) >> >> With compliments, >> >> Pavel (Paul) Samsonov >> EDAD, College of Education, >> Texas A&M University >> tel. (979) 862-7771 (lab) >> (979) 862-9152 (home) >> fax (979) 862-4347 >> e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jpacheco44 at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Jun 22 22:20:05 2000 From: jpacheco44 at HOTMAIL.COM (Jean Pacheco) Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:20:05 PDT Subject: Keyboard stickers Message-ID: I have used a character map which allows me to type Russian fonts. It is part of the Windows Program--You go to Program-Acessories-System Tools-Character Map I have Time New Roman Cyr kept in the character map. I simply click on the letter and it appears in the word document. This method of typing my things in Russian was suggested to me by a Russian computer teacher and works quite well. jpacheco44 at hotmail.com ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Fri Jun 23 17:13:04 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:13:04 -0500 Subject: Spell check Message-ID: Thank y'all for your interest. Let me answer some questions. Some folks have installed it and it works great. No, there is no grammar check. I don't know if it works with Macs - I am afraid not. It does not work with the Outlook Express - this program has its own spellcheck (not Russian) , just like the Internet Explorer - you can type in Russian if you have a Yahoo or MailExcite account, but it will not check your Russian spelling. With compliments, Pavel (Paul) Samsonov EDAD, College of Education, Texas A&M University tel. (979) 862-7771 (lab) (979) 862-9152 (home) fax (979) 862-4347 e-mail p0s5658 at acs.tamu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From adamp at LING.OHIO-STATE.EDU Fri Jun 23 22:48:30 2000 From: adamp at LING.OHIO-STATE.EDU (Adam Przepiorkowski) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:48:30 -0400 Subject: CFP: Generative Linguistics in Poland (syntax and morphology) Message-ID: PLEASE CIRCULATE!!! PLEASE CIRCULATE!!! PLEASE CIRCULATE!!! GLiP-2 GENERATIVE LINGUISTICS IN POLAND 2 (syntax and morphology) Dates: 8-9 December 2000 Location: Warszawa (Warsaw) Sponsored by the Institute of English Studies, University of Warsaw INVITED SPEAKERS (both to be confirmed): ---------------- Steven FRANKS Indiana University Gilbert C. RAPPAPORT University of Texas at Austin 1st CALL FOR PAPERS ------------------- The primary aim of GLiP meetings is to bring together (i) Polish generative linguists, (ii) generative linguists working in Poland, as well as (iii) generative linguists working on Polish. We invite abstracts on any aspect of generative syntax and/or morphology in any generative approach: P&P (Minimalism, GB), HPSG, LFG, OT, etc. Talks will be organized around major syntactic topics, depending on the content of the submissions. We are also planning a separate session on Polish generative terminology, continued from GLiP-1 (details to be found on our web pages). The format of the conference is 30 min for presentation + 15 min question time. Languages of the conference are English and Polish. The GLiP-1 meeting, which took place in November 1999 in Warsaw, resulted in a volume of proceedings, and we are also planning to publish proceedings of GLiP-2. ORGANIZING COMMITTEE: -------------------- Piotr Banski, Institute of English Studies, University of Warsaw Adam Przepiorkowski, Institute of Computer Science, Polish Academy of Sciences PROGRAMME COMMITTEE: ------------------- Piotr BANSKI University of Warsaw Robert D. BORSLEY University of Essex Steven FRANKS Indiana University Adam PRZEPIORKOWSKI Polish Academy of Sciences Gilbert C. RAPPAPORT University of Texas at Austin Andrew J. SPENCER University of Essex Ewa WILLIM (tbc) Jagiellonian University Jacek WITKOS Adam Mickiewicz University ACCOMODATION: ------------ Accommodation will be provided at the university hotel. For details please see our web page (address below). CONFERENCE FEES (estimated): --------------- Regular: 60 PLN Student: 30 PLN DATES: ----- - DEADLINE for receipt of abstracts: 30 September 2000 - Notification of acceptance: 31 October 2000 - Meeting: 9-10 December 2000 - Deadline for submissions of papers for the proceedings volume: 28 February 2001 ABSTRACTS: --------- Should be *anonymous* and consist of up to 700 words, together with examples and references. We accept abstracts *EXCLUSIVELY* in ASCII format. If data involving diacritics are quoted, please omit the diacritics unless they are essential for the proper interpretation of the proposal -- in such cases, use the ASCII characters to mark them in some consistent way. Only one submission per person and one joint submission will be considered. IMPORTANT: At the beginning of your e-mail, please supply the following information: - name, title, - title of the paper, - affiliation, - email address, - snail mail address. Unless you send the abstract as attachment, we request that you add several blank lines between the personal information and the abstract proper, to facilitate anonymous review. ADDRESSES: --------- PLEASE NOTE: ONLY *E-MAIL* SUBMISSIONS WILL BE CONSIDERED Please send your abstracts to: GLiP-2 Organizing Committee For MORE INFORMATION see: http://venus.ci.uw.edu.pl/~glip/ PRELIMINARY REGISTRATION (IMPORTANT!): ------------------------ If you are (tentatively) interested in taking part in this workshop, please, send your email address to GLiP-2 Organizing Committee . Most future announcements, changes, etc., will be mailed only to registered prospective participants (and not to general linguistic lists). -- , ADAM PRZEPIORKOWSKI -------------------------------------------------------------- Ohio State University | work: (USA) (614) 292 2844 Department of Linguistics | home: (USA) (614) 261 1572 222 Oxley Hall | fax: (USA) (614) 292 8833 1712 Neil Ave. | Columbus OH 43210 | email: adamp at ling.ohio-state.edu -------------------------------------------------------------- URL: http://www.ipipan.waw.pl/mmgroup/ap.html -------------------------------------------------------------- On leave from the Institute of Computer Science, Polish Academy of Sciences, Warsaw. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Sat Jun 24 00:20:25 2000 From: cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (curt fredric woolhiser) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:20:25 -0500 Subject: Angel G. Angelov Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, Does anyone know the e-mail address of the Bulgarian sociolinguist Angel G. Angelov, who teaches at St. Kliment Ohridski University in Sofia? Mnogo blagodarja! Curt Woolhiser ======================================== Curt F. Woolhiser Dept. of Slavic Languages and Literatures Calhoun 415 University of Texas Austin, TX 78713-7217 USA Tel. (512) 471-3607 Fax: (512) 471-6710 Email: cfwoolhiser at mail.utexas.edu Slavic Department Home Page: http://www.dla.utexas.edu/depts/slavic/ ======================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at HOME.COM Sat Jun 24 01:37:01 2000 From: asred at HOME.COM (Steve Marder) Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 21:37:01 -0400 Subject: Setting the preferences in "IE" Message-ID: Seelangers, Having used the "Netscape" browser for a number of years, I am now experimenting with "Internet Explorer" on a Macintosh PowerBook G3 running OS 8.6. Could some kind soul tell me how I must set up my "Preferences" in such a way so that I can view Cyrillic fonts on-screen? Apart from the proper "Preferences" and encodings, are there any other settings I need to establish to achieve my goal? To state the obvious, I have all the necessary Cyrillic fonts installed in my System. Steve Marder ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From K.R.Hauge at EAST.UIO.NO Sat Jun 24 10:35:36 2000 From: K.R.Hauge at EAST.UIO.NO (Kjetil Ra Hauge) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:35:36 +0200 Subject: Setting the preferences in "IE" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Seelangers, > >Having used the "Netscape" browser for a number of years, I am now >experimenting with "Internet Explorer" on a Macintosh PowerBook G3 running >OS 8.6. Could some kind soul tell me how I must set up my "Preferences" in >such a way so that I can view Cyrillic fonts on-screen? Apart from the >proper "Preferences" and encodings, are there any other settings I need to >establish to achieve my goal? To state the obvious, I have all the necessary >Cyrillic fonts installed in my System. > There could be a number of reasons: - If the fonts are third-party, are they compliant with the Apple encoding? If you upgrade to System 9, Cyrillic fonts come as a free extra, with better screen fonts than those included in the former Cyrillic Language Kit. - There are several encoding standards for web page content - make sure you specify your Cyrillic fonts for all of them, in Preferences>Web Browser>Language/Fonts. - If you are using an older version of IE, you might have to select Cyrillic encoding manually when viewing the page, possibly also with a reload/refresh after that. Versions 4.5 and above are better in this respect, but if the source code of the page does not specify Cyrillic encoding, you will still have to do this. - The source code of the page specifies certain fonts for the content - for instance Times Roman. This will look OK on a Windows computer with a Cyrillic version of Times Roman installed, but not on your Mac, where the Cyrillic fonts have other names. Workaround: Preferences>Web Browser>Web Content and uncheck "Allow page to specify fonts". - The source code of the page might be Unicode (UTF-8 encoding) - I am not sure whether this is handled by System 8. System 9 handles it, as long as you have the proper fonts. -- Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo. Phone +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140 -- (this msg sent from home, ph. +47/67148424, +47/67149745 -- fax +1/5084372444 [eFax, U.S. number]) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Ulrich.Schmid at UNIBAS.CH Sat Jun 24 08:26:15 2000 From: Ulrich.Schmid at UNIBAS.CH (Ulrich Schmid) Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 10:26:15 +0200 Subject: Sholokhov: Quiet Don Message-ID: I am wondering if the debate around the authorship of "The Quiet Don" has been settled or not. I am aware of the studies undertaken by Geir Kjetsaa (author = M. Sholokhov), H. Ermolaev, R. Medvedev, A. Solzhenitsyn (author = F. Krjukov) and M. Anikin (author = A. Serafimovich). Any help will be appreciated. -- Ulrich Schmid Ulrich.Schmid at unibas.ch Universitaet Basel Slavisches Seminar Nadelberg 4 Eigenstr. 16 CH - 4051 Basel CH - 8008 Zuerich Tel./Fax (061) 267 34 11 Tel. (01) 422 23 20 http://www.unibas.ch/slavi/ http://www.pano.de ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at WANADOO.FR Sun Jun 25 23:41:38 2000 From: gadassov at WANADOO.FR (Adassovsky Georges) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:41:38 +0100 Subject: Job "au pair" In-Reply-To: <000801bfdb9f$929b5680$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: Dear sealangtsy! Please pass this information around: I am looking for a Russian woman willing to stay a month in France, 15 July/15 August, to help taking care for my grand-children whose mother recently deceased. I offer an independent room, all family meals, 3000 French Francs. Mediterranean seaside. Possibility (or not) for a further longer stay in Paris, same purpose. Communicate in Russian, French or English to: Georges Adassovsky 521 rue des anciens chantiers 11210 Port la Nouvelle France Tel/fax 33 (0) 4 68 48 58 74 E-mail: gadassov at wanadoo.fr Thanks! Georges ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at WANADOO.FR Sun Jun 25 23:49:11 2000 From: gadassov at WANADOO.FR (Adassovsky Georges) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:49:11 +0100 Subject: Setting the preferences in "IE" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >>Seelangers, >> >>Having used the "Netscape" browser for a number of years, I am now >>experimenting with "Internet Explorer" on a Macintosh PowerBook G3 running >>OS 8.6. Could some kind soul tell me how I must set up my "Preferences" in >>such a way so that I can view Cyrillic fonts on-screen? Apart from the >>proper "Preferences" and encodings, are there any other settings I need to >>establish to achieve my goal? To state the obvious, I have all the necessary >>Cyrillic fonts installed in my System. What strange an idea! Continue to use "Netscape", that works perfectly well! Georges (uprjamyj MacIntoshist) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Kevin.Windle at ANU.EDU.AU Mon Jun 26 01:17:08 2000 From: Kevin.Windle at ANU.EDU.AU (Kevin Windle) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 11:17:08 +1000 Subject: Sholokhov: Quiet Don In-Reply-To: <395470A7.6EBC@unibas.ch> Message-ID: >I am wondering if the debate around the authorship of "The Quiet Don" >has been settled or not. I am aware of the studies undertaken by Geir >Kjetsaa (author = M. Sholokhov), H. Ermolaev, R. Medvedev, A. >Solzhenitsyn (author = F. Krjukov) and M. Anikin (author = A. >Serafimovich). >Any help will be appreciated. >-- >Ulrich Schmid The following two items - from opposing positions - may be of interest: Feliks Kuznetsov, 'Kniga veka: rukopis' Tikhogo Dona naidena i spasena,' Moskva, 1/2000, pp. 161-170. 'K voprosu ob avtorstve Tikhogo Dona,' (a letter to the Nobel Prize Committee from A. Gerburt-Iogansen), Kontinent, No. 44, 1985, pp. 303-308. Hope this helps, Kevin Windle Dr Kevin Windle, Reader, Dept. of Classical and Modern European Languages, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT 0200 Tel. (02) 6249 2885; Fax (02) 6249 3252 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kgottschall at ACTR.ORG Mon Jun 26 19:24:56 2000 From: kgottschall at ACTR.ORG (Kate Gottschall) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 15:24:56 -0400 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Kate M. Gottschall Human Resources Director American Councils for International Education 1776 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W., Suite 700 Washington, DC 20036 202-833-7522 fax: 202-872-9178 www.actr.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dec at UFL.EDU Tue Jun 27 01:23:16 2000 From: dec at UFL.EDU (David E. Crawford) Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 21:23:16 -0400 Subject: WordPerfect 9 help request Message-ID: Is there anyone on the list who has successfully configured WordPerfect (Corel Office 2000 for Windows, version 9, service release 3) such that you can edit Cyrillic text and correctly display/print the selected font? If so, how did you do it? I'm running Windows 98 with multilanguage support installed, reasonably up-to-date. I can select Russian on the system tray, and start typing into WP9, and I see the correct Cyrillic text content on the screen; however, it is always the same Times-ish font regardless of the font selected on the toolbar. Printing gives the same results. This happens when the default Code Page 1252 is selected under the Format, Font Settings, Edit Font Mapping, Code Page menu; if I switch to 1251 (Windows Cyrillic), the on-screen Cyrillic is replaced by Roman characters with diacritic marks. After I switch to English on the system tray, the correct font magically appears for the typed roman characters on the screen, then back to the "generic" Cyrillic font again once I switch back to Russian. I've fiddled with the language, code page, and font substitution settings and I can't get it to work correctly. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. TIA. David ----------------------------------------------------------------------- David E. Crawford, MSEE Gainesville, Florida 29╟36.28'N 82╟25.44'W United States of America dec at ufl.edu Voice mailbox: 661-420-9701 FAX: 530-504-9257 ICQ: 2588570 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bougakov at MAIL.RU Tue Jun 27 12:42:18 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 16:42:18 +0400 Subject: WordPerfect 9 help request Message-ID: Hello, David, I have foung this small trick when I was teaching my Adobe Photoshop (US Edition) to type Russsian characters instead of characters with diacritic marks. Hope, that it will help you with your WP9. Open Registry Editor (from "Start" => "Run" => regedit.exe) and change the value of the Registry key called "1252" in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Nls\CodePage from "C_1252.nls" to "C_1251.nls". This should help - the system will not display Central European characters - German umlauts, Polish and French specific characters and so on (from Windows-1252 codepage) and will use Cyrillic characters (from Windows-1251 codepage) instead of them. You will see Russian small letter "d" instead of Geman small "a umlaut", Russian "tz" instead of "o umlaut" etc. And Windows will continue to think, that it uses Win-1252 codepage. If you have never seen Registry editor and have no idea what you should do with it, ask someone who does. Do not experiment yourself at your own risk, please. And before doing anything, BACKUP YOUR REGISTRY!!!!!! Nothing should happen with your system, such change can not harm your system in any way, but, as we in Russia say "berezhenogo Bog berezhet": - if you are running Windows NT, run RDISK.EXE to make backups of your Registry components. And if something will go wrong, press spacebar key when your system starts - and NT will automatically choose "Last successful configuration". - if you use Win9x, save this Registry key to the file in the temporary folder - and you will be able to restore Registry using Regedit.exe from the DOS command prompt at any time. Also make sure that you are using fonts, which contain Russian characters - you can check it if you will open Character Map program from Acessories folder in the Start menu. You can install Internet Explorer version 5 in the 'full' configuration - it is shipped with Microsoft Font Pack which contains standard Unicode fonts (Arial, Tahoma, Courier New, Impact, Times New Roman, Garamond, Verdana and others), which contain all necessary characters - Roman, East European, Greek, Cyrillic and others. And maybe the simpliest solution will be to install MS Office 97 or 2000 - my MS Word can, for example, work with documents which contain Corean, Roman and Cyrillic characters in the same time without any problem. Good luck! Sincerely yours, Alexandre Bougakov Student of the sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My website is http://SocioLink.narod.ru/ (thousands of sociology related links on the Web - in Russian, Microsoft Internet Explorer 4 or higher is required) My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Ulrich.Schmid at UNIBAS.CH Tue Jun 27 15:01:41 2000 From: Ulrich.Schmid at UNIBAS.CH (Ulrich Schmid) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:01:41 +0200 Subject: Andrej Anikin Message-ID: Could anybody give me an e-mail or postal address of Andrej Anikin, author of articles on literature and money? Thank you very much. Ulrich Schmid Slavic Dept. University of Basel Switzerland ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Dagmar.Divjak at ARTS.KULEUVEN.AC.BE Tue Jun 27 15:26:15 2000 From: Dagmar.Divjak at ARTS.KULEUVEN.AC.BE (Dagmar Divjak) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 17:26:15 +0200 Subject: natives: russian Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, I'm a second year phd student in russian linguistics (syntax). In order to collect data, I am 1. looking for russians (living in or outside Russia) that are prepared to answer (e-mailed) questions, once or twice a month. Questions will concern word order/position, collocations, alternative formulations, differences in meaning between highly similar constructions etc. If you are a native russian with a thorough knowledge of your mothertongue (and good intuitions!) and are willing to cooperate, please contact me dagmar.divjak at arts.kuleuven.ac.be 2. trying to find links to (transliterated) text corpora (at present, I'm using the Uppsala-Tuebingen corpora). Please respond directly to dagmar.divjak at arts.kuleuven.ac.be Thanks in advance, Dagmar Katholieke universiteit Leuven Departement voor Oosterse en Slavische studies Instituut voor Slavistiek t.a.v. Dagmar Divjak Blijde Inkomststraat 21 3000 Leuven BELGIUM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From srogosin at NETZERO.NET Wed Jun 28 00:35:18 2000 From: srogosin at NETZERO.NET (Serge Rogosin) Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 20:35:18 -0400 Subject: institute for ukrainian studies in lviv Message-ID: Does anyone know someone at the Institute for Ukrainian Studies in Lviv who might be willing to look up a word in the lexical/citation files for me? Any assistance or advice would be greatly appreciated. Serge Rogosin _____________ 93-49 222 Street Queens Village, NY 11428 tel. & fax (718)479-2881 e-mail: srogosin at netzero.net sergerogosin at hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From holdeman.2 at OSU.EDU Wed Jun 28 20:08:32 2000 From: holdeman.2 at OSU.EDU (Jeff Holdeman) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:08:32 -0500 Subject: Apartment for rent in Prague Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 650 bytes Desc: not available URL: From asred at HOME.COM Wed Jun 28 19:49:29 2000 From: asred at HOME.COM (Steve Marder) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 15:49:29 -0400 Subject: Setting the preferences in "IE" Message-ID: This is to express my gratitude to those people who responded to my query with helpful advice and suggestions. I have now satisfied myself that "Internet Explorer" and "Outlook Express," interesting as they may be, are not enough of a temptation to make me want to abandon "Netscape." Stated somewhat more vernacularly, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Steve Marder ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ilon at UT.EE Wed Jun 28 21:59:14 2000 From: ilon at UT.EE (Ilon Fraiman) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 00:59:14 +0300 Subject: ruthenia news Message-ID: Dobryj den'! Pered svoim ot'ezdom v poselok Primorje, gde sostoitsja Letnja'a shkola molodogo filologa (sm.: http://ruthenia.ru/anonslist.html?date=2000-07-01#2000-07-01), podvedu nekotorye itogi raboty "Rutenii" za istekshij mesjac. Za poslednju'u nedelju maja i ijun' na sajte byli opublikovany sledujuschie materialy (esli dlja vas zatrudnitel'no otkryvat' kazhduju ssylku, rekomenduju zajti na stranicu Arhiva "Hroniki akademicheskoj zhizni" http://ruthenia.ru/archiv.html, gde privodimye nizhe soobschenija raspredeleny po rubrikam, ili vospol'zovat'sja poiskovoj stranicej, k sozhaleniju, poka dalekoj ot sovershenstva - http://ruthenia.ru/search.html): 23.05.2000 Novye knigi izdatel'stva "Indrik" (Ikony Tveri, Novgoroda, Pskova XV-XVI vekov; Vizantijskie freski) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/238969.html Konferencija "Kul'tura rossijskoj provincii: vek XX-XXI" (23-26maja, Kaluga) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/211829.html Lekcija D. Kollmanna v St]nforde http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/237817.html Novosti i anonsy nezavisimyh proektov: "Nemzereski" http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/238431.html 24.05.2000 Konferencija po Brodskomu (24-26 maja, S. -- Peterburg) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/238668.html 27.05.2000 Bol'shaja kniga interv'ju http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/240993.html Ezhegodnaja konferencija Kanadskoj associacii slavistov (27-29 maja, }dmonton) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/202551.html 28.05.2000 Prazdnovanie vos'midesjatiletija so dnja rozhdenija Davida Samojlova http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/228011.html Iz novyh postuplenij v Rossijskuju gosudarstvennuju biblioteku (15-20 maja) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/241033.html 30.05.2000 Zaschita doktorskoj dissertacii v Permskom gosudarstvennom universitete http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/234351.html 01.06.2000 Iz novyh postuplenij v Rossijskuju gosudarstvennuju biblioteku (22-27 maja) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/243449.html Novye knigi izdatel'stva "Indrik" http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/243408.html Zaschita kandidatskoj i doktorskoj dissertacij v MGU http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/238772.html 80 let so dnja rozhdenija Davida Samojlova http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/243372.html Mir Velimira Hlebnikova http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/243311.html Publichnyj seminar v klube "Proekt O. G. I." http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/239820.html 02.06.2000 Kniga o Majakovskom http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/243808.html Monografija prof. V. P. Beljanina http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/243744.html M. Bezrodnyj. K voprosu o kul'te Pushkina na Rusi: Beglye zametki http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/242352.html 05.06.2000 Zaschity doktorskih dissertacij na Otdelenii semiotiki Tartuskogo http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/237577.html 06.06.2000 "Nemzereski": Novinki ot "NLO" http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/245138.html 07.06.2000 Kniga Cjavlovskih http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/245694.html 09.06.2000 Zaschita doktorskoj dissertacii v Tallinskom pedagogicheskom universitete http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/240355.html 10.06.2000 Den' rozhdenija A. S. Nemzera http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/249403.html 12.06.2000 Cvetaevskaja konferencija vo Vshenorah http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/178449.html 14.06.2000 Zaschita magisterskoj dissertacii v Tartuskom universitete http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/246329.html 15.06.2000 Novye "nemzereski" http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/249244 16.06.2000 Konferencija "Tvorchestvo A. T. Tvardovskogo i russkaja literatura" (Voronezh) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/190457.html 19.06.2000 Ssylka nedeli "Vsem zverjam otec" http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/250371.html ------------------------- Na pervoj stranice (http://www.ruthenia.ru/) i v "Hronike akademicheskoj zhizni" (http://ruthenia.ru/hronika.html): 21.06.2000 Iz novyh postuplenij v Rossijskuju gosudarstvennuju biblioteku (29 maja-2 ijunja) http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-06-21#252113 "Nemzereski" http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-06-21#251711 22.06.2000 Zaschity dissertacij v Permskom gosudarstvennom universitete http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-06-22#249297 Iz novyh postuplenij v Rossijskuju gosudarstvennuju biblioteku (5-9 ijunja 2000) http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-06-22#253003 23.06.2000 Sbornik materialov tverskoj konferencii po Erofeevu http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-06-23#253220 25.06.2000 Pamjati E. G. Etkinda http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-06-25#249802 29.06.2000 Novye "Nemzereski" http://www.ruthenia.ru/hronika.html?date=2000-06-29#255604 ------------------- Privetstvujutsja vashi zamechanija i pozhelanija v svjazi s rabotoj "Rutenii" i lista rassylki. V moe otsutstvie Hronika, po vsej vidimosti, rabotat' ne budet. Pishite pis'ma glavnomu redaktoru Romanu Leibovu :-)) staff at ruthenia.ru Do skoroj vstrechi! Vash, Ilon Fraiman. staff at ruthenia.ru http://www.ruthenia.ru/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From delle at TACONIC.NET Thu Jun 29 00:16:25 2000 From: delle at TACONIC.NET (Mary Delle LeBeau) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:16:25 -0400 Subject: SEELANGS message In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 03:24 PM 06/26/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Kate M. Gottschall >Human Resources Director >American Councils for International Education >1776 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W., Suite 700 >Washington, DC 20036 >202-833-7522 >fax: 202-872-9178 >www.actr.org > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dear Ms. Gottschall, I received this message from you via SEELANGS. If it needed opening, I was unable to do it. Can you please briefly tell me the content of the message? Then I would know if I need to read this message and thus try another method of opening it. Thank you very much for your assistance. Best wishes, Mary Delle LeBeau ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From simplify3 at JUNO.COM Thu Jun 29 00:31:59 2000 From: simplify3 at JUNO.COM (Kenneth E Udut) Date: Wed, 28 Jun 2000 20:31:59 -0400 Subject: _Russian Grammar in Illustrations_ by Pekhlivanova and Lebedeva Message-ID: _Russian Grammar in Illustrations_ by Pekhlivanova and Lebedeva Russky Yazyk Publishers 1994 ISBN: 5-200-02190-1 Excellent, excellent, excellent book! Go to: http://www.bookfinder.com or your favorite used bookseller (I found it at Powellsbooks). If you are studying Russian on your own, or need good illustrations of Russian grammar for your students, this is it. I paid $18.95 - you may find it for less or more. It is entirely illustrated, and has diagrams, charts, and every page has many many cartoon illustrations explaining the points shown. It is also no-nonsense, and in 351 pages [9"x 11" book] seems to cover just about everything. It is in Russian and English. [the book appears to be intended for English speakers] From the Foreword: ...is intended for all beginners and Russian language students at the intermediate stage who learn their Russian outside Russia, and have a limited number of lessons at their disposal, i.e. students of technical or vocational schools, institutions of higher learning, especially non-linguistic ones, and those who attend Russian Courses of the Friendship Society, various language circles, as well as those who follow lessons of Russian on the radio or TV. It will also be useful to those who are learning the language without the guidance of a teacher. [...] end quote [...] I am thrilled, to say the least! The front cover has an illustration of a Rubix Cube with Russian prepositions on it going in all directions, with a skeleton key going into the side of the cube, with a garden of flowers growing underneath. The combination of no-nonsense, detailed coverage of grammar, and the hundreds of illustrations throughout the book, makes me very hopeful that this will be an important step in my Russian learning, since it is especially certain grammatical points that keep me behind. I like the fact that it does not appear to have any exercises in it. It is a descriptive text. And the illustrations do a lot of the explaining for you. Thanks for listening :-) -Kenneth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at WANADOO.FR Thu Jun 29 14:37:09 2000 From: gadassov at WANADOO.FR (Adassovsky Georges) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 15:37:09 +0100 Subject: Job "au pair" In-Reply-To: <000801bfdb9f$929b5680$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: Dear Seelangtsy! Thanks to all. I received a first answer just a few hour after sending my announcement, and the problem was settled. Since then, i continue to receive a lot of answers, all very kind, but infortunately I can't hire all! thanks again, Georges. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kgottschall at ACTR.ORG Thu Jun 29 15:01:43 2000 From: kgottschall at ACTR.ORG (Kate Gottschall) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:01:43 -0400 Subject: SEELANGS message Message-ID: Dear Ms. Delle LeBeau: Thank you for your response. I apologize for disturbing you; my message was sent to you in error. Kate Gottschall >>> Mary Delle LeBeau 06/28/00 08:16PM >>> At 03:24 PM 06/26/2000 -0400, you wrote: >Kate M. Gottschall >Human Resources Director >American Councils for International Education >1776 Massachusetts Avenue, N.W., Suite 700 >Washington, DC 20036 >202-833-7522 >fax: 202-872-9178 >www.actr.org > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Dear Ms. Gottschall, I received this message from you via SEELANGS. If it needed opening, I was unable to do it. Can you please briefly tell me the content of the message? Then I would know if I need to read this message and thus try another method of opening it. Thank you very much for your assistance. Best wishes, Mary Delle LeBeau ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Thu Jun 29 11:03:10 2000 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 11:03:10 +0000 Subject: research aids Message-ID: Has anyone ever used any of the services that promise to search the Russian press for articles on a particular topic? I've seen them advertise in the AAASS bulletin, I think--don't recall if they advertise in AATSEEL as well. Thanks, Emily Tall ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM Thu Jun 29 17:27:49 2000 From: AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM (AATSEEL Exec Dir) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 13:27:49 -0400 Subject: Stephen L. Baehr Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, As many of you already know, professor of Russian Steve Baehr, long-time AATSEEL member and editor of the Slavic & E. European Journal, died suddenly earlier in the week. Here is his obituary as released by his institution. We mourn Steve's loss and extend our sympathies to his family. Jerry Ervin * * * * * Gerard L. (Jerry) Ervin Executive Director, American Ass'n of Teachers of Slavic & E European Languages (AATSEEL) 1933 N. Fountain Park Dr., Tucson, AZ 85715 USA Phone/fax: 520/885-2663 Email: AATSEEL Home Page: 2000 conference: 27-30 December, Washington, DC 2001 conference: 27-30 December, New Orleans, LA * * * * * STEPHEN L. BAEHR, VIRGINIA TECH CHAIR OF RUSSIAN STUDIES, DIES BLACKSBURG, June 29, 2000-Dr. Stephen L. Baehr, 54, professor of Russian and chair of the Russian Studies Program in the Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures at Virginia Tech, died shortly after midnight June 28. Dr. Baehr came to Virginia Tech in 1979 after teaching at Harvard University and the University of Virginia. He has earned great recognition for his work and praise for his mentoring of students and young faculty members. Jessica Folkart, a young faculty member, wrote, "I think all of us looked up to Steve as someone of great experience, wise advice, and helpful support." Dr. Baehr earned the B.A. degree magna cum laude from Clark University in 1967 with a major in economics and a minor in Russian. He received a Certificate of the Critical Languages Program in Russian Studies from Princeton University in 1967, having spent his senior year there. He earned an M.A. degree from Columbia University's Department of Slavic Languages in 1970 and the Ph.D. with distinction from Columbia University in 1972 with a major in Russian literature and a minor in comparative literature. Dr. Baehr's area of research was Russian literature, particularly Utopia, the relationship of man and the machine, and alchemy in Russian literature. Dr. Baehr's seminal work on Russia's relationship with the West was recently featured in the WVTF series of radio spots highlighting the research accomplishments of Virginia Tech faculty. Dr. Baehr earned numerous awards and grants for his work. In 1995, he received the Albert E. Sturm Award for Excellence in Faculty Research from Phi Beta Kappa, Mu Chapter of Virginia. His book The Paradise Myth in 18th Century Russia was published in 1991 by Stanford University Press. He was completing a second book, tentatively entitled The Machine and Its Enemies in Nineteenth and Twentieth Century Russian Literature and Culture, with that same press. He published more than a dozen articles in refereed journals. Dr. Baehr received the University Certificate of Teaching Excellence for the College of Arts and Science in 1993. He received two Fulbright-Hays Research Fellowships to study in Finland and two International Research and Exchanges Board Research Fellowships in the Soviet Union. Among his many invited lectures and presentations throughout the country were one at Yale and one at Harvard on "Is Moscow Burning: Fire in Griboedov's Woe from Wit." He also presented several lectures and seminars internationally, most recently at the Academy of Sciences of the USSR, Institute of Russian Literature, Leningrad. One of Dr. Baehr's most significant recent accomplishments was serving as editor-in-chief of the Slavic and East European Journal, probably the most widely recognized journal in Russian literature outside Russia. His lengthy list of contributions to the department, college, university, and his profession included chairing the University Library Committee, serving on the screening committee for the National Security Education Program, and serving as the campus representative to the International Research and Exchanges Board. He also worked with the Phi Beta Kappa Encouragement of Scholarship Committee and was extremely active in supporting honors students and recruiting high-quality students to Virginia Tech, according to Judith Shrum, department head. He served as a graduate advisor and coordinator of freshman recruiting for several years and also served as a faculty mentor of the Black Student Mentor Program for four years. "Dr. Stephen Baehr was first and foremost a gentle man, kind in his approach to students, supportive in his mentoring of colleagues," Shrum said. "His personal warmth drew students to him, and he responded by providing time to talk, by writing many letters of recommendation, and by opening doors of influence for them. "He was a scholar of high repute, honored by Phi Beta Kappa with their coveted Sturm Award for Faculty Research Excellence. Scholars of Russian culture and literature looked to his interpretations of Russian literature as the basis for their work. His absence will be palpable in his field of scholarship, among his colleagues around the world, and in the Blacksburg university community. His colleagues and friends in the Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures will deeply miss his presence, wit, and wisdom." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Thu Jun 29 19:56:47 2000 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 20:56:47 +0100 Subject: short stories written by women Message-ID: Dear all, As I have said before on this list, I am compiling an anthology of Russian short stories for Penguin Classics. I would be grateful for help over 2 questions: 1) Are there any neglected women writers whom I should be including? At present I am including Teffi, Prismanova, Tsvetaeva (yes, she did write one excellent short story!), Vera Inber and Petrushevskaya; and possibly Tolstaya. 2) The story I am definitely including by Inber is called "Lyaliny interesy". Does anyone know of any other outstanding SHORT stories by her? Many thanks, Robert Chandler ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frankdp at EROLS.COM Thu Jun 29 22:16:02 2000 From: frankdp at EROLS.COM (Frank Poulin) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:16:02 -0400 Subject: short stories written by women Message-ID: Hi Robert: I think you should consider a work by Lidia Chukovskaya. I remember reading "Sofia Petrovna" one summer an Indiana University. At the time, I thought it was a great work and I still plan on re-reading it. Regards, Frank -----Original Message----- From: Robert Chandler To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Date: Thursday, June 29, 2000 3:54 PM Subject: short stories written by women >Dear all, > >As I have said before on this list, I am compiling an anthology of >Russian short stories for Penguin Classics. I would be grateful for help >over 2 questions: > >1) Are there any neglected women writers whom I should be including? At >present I am including Teffi, Prismanova, Tsvetaeva (yes, she did write >one excellent short story!), Vera Inber and Petrushevskaya; and possibly >Tolstaya. > >2) The story I am definitely including by Inber is called "Lyaliny >interesy". Does anyone know of any other outstanding SHORT stories by her? > >Many thanks, Robert Chandler > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Wambah at AOL.COM Thu Jun 29 22:34:35 2000 From: Wambah at AOL.COM (Wambah at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 18:34:35 EDT Subject: short stories written by women Message-ID: You might consider including Tokareva, I. Grekova, and Anna Barkova. Best, Laura Kline In a message dated 6/29/00 3:55:03 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM writes: << 1) Are there any neglected women writers whom I should be including? At present I am including Teffi, Prismanova, Tsvetaeva (yes, she did write one excellent short story!), Vera Inber and Petrushevskaya; and possibly Tolstaya. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mad197 at LULU.ACNS.NWU.EDU Fri Jun 30 02:15:08 2000 From: mad197 at LULU.ACNS.NWU.EDU (Michael A. Denner) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:15:08 -0500 Subject: Melodia records Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, Who currently holds the property rights on recordings from the Melodia label? I know that Melodia was bought by Angel out of Britain, but there the story ends for me. Thanks in advance, Michael A. Denner Northwestern University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From srogosin at NETZERO.NET Fri Jun 30 04:01:58 2000 From: srogosin at NETZERO.NET (Serge Rogosin) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 00:01:58 -0400 Subject: harvard *card* catalog Message-ID: Would anyone at Harvard be willing to look up something in the old card catolog (i.e. not HOLLIS) for an article I am working on? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Serge Rogosin ______________ 93-49 222 Street Queens Village, NY 11428 tel. & fax (718)479-2881 e-mail: srogosin at netzero.net sergerogosin at hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Fri Jun 30 03:41:25 2000 From: AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Alex Rudd) Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 23:41:25 EDT Subject: Melodia records In-Reply-To: Message of Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:15:08 -0500 from Message-ID: On Thu, 29 Jun 2000 21:15:08 -0500 Michael A. Denner said: >Who currently holds the property rights on recordings from the Melodia >label? I know that Melodia was bought by Angel out of >Britain, but there the story ends for me. Michael, It's not going to be as simple as that. First, by "property rights," I'm assuming you're referring to Copyright and whether you can make use and/or copies of works first published by Melodiya. You're probably going to have to check on a recording by recording basis. My sense of it, having just done a few searches of the records at the Copyright Office on the Internet and browsed the web, is that the history involved has made the answer into a quagmire. For one thing, Melodiya licensed at least part of its catalog to BMG Music back in 1994. For another, Capitol Records was in a recording agreement with Mezhdunarodnaya Kniga (which was the official State recording agency), under which Capitol released some recordings from MK under the "Melodiya/Angel" label and distributed them via Angel Records. Maybe you should check with BMG and Capitol Records with regards to any recording you want to use and see if they claim any rights in it. If you feel like doing a search in the United States, the Copyright Office has its records on-line: http://www.loc.gov/copyright/rb.html Of course, depending on what you want to do, there are enough exceptions to the Copyright law (e.g. Fair Use) that you might not even need to get permission. If you're a professor and want to play the music in class, then you will want to know that you can do that without infringing per 17 U.S.C. 110(1), which says: "Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106 �which enumerate the rights of a copyright owner�, the following are NOT �emphasis added� infringements of copyright: performance or display of a work by instructors or pupils in the course of face-to-face teaching activities of a nonprofit educational institution, in a classroom or similar place devoted to instruction, unless, in the case of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, the performance, or the display of individual images, is given by means of a copy that was not lawfully made under this title, and that the person responsible for the performance knew or had reason to believe was not lawfully made; " Hope that helps a little. - Alex, list owner of SEELANGS seelangs-request at listserv.cuny.edu .................................................................... Alex Rudd ahrjj at cunyvm.cuny.edu ARS KA2ZOO {Standard Disclaimer} http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bougakov at MAIL.RU Fri Jun 30 09:07:20 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 13:07:20 +0400 Subject: research aids Message-ID: Hello, Emily > Has anyone ever used any of the services that > promise to search the Russian press for articles > on a particular topic? Try this two services: http://nel.nns.ru/ (National Electronic Library) and http://www.shpl.ru/docdeliv/list/info.htm Try also www.smi.ru ("SMI" - "Sredstva massovoi Informatsii"). Presidential Administration also has its own collection of articles from hundreds of sources at www.gov.ru/Lib but it has very strange and sophisticated structure and interface and is very difficult to use. Cordially, Alexandre Bougakov Student of the sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My website is http://SocioLink.narod.ru/ (thousands of sociology related links on the Web - in Russian, Microsoft Internet Explorer 4 or higher is required) My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) -----Original Message----- From: Emily Tall [SMTP:mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU] Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2000 3:03 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: research aids Has anyone ever used any of the services that promise to search the Russian press for articles on a particular topic? I've seen them advertise in the AAASS bulletin, I think--don't recall if they advertise in AATSEEL as well. Thanks, Emily Tall ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Fri Jun 30 10:55:25 2000 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:55:25 +0100 Subject: short stories written by women Message-ID: Dear Frank, Thanks - I've got a feeling it may be too long, but I'll check Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Fri Jun 30 10:55:26 2000 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:55:26 +0100 Subject: Tokareva, Grekova, Anna Barkova Message-ID: Dear Laura Kline, Thanks. Several people have mentioned Grekova. Are there any particular stories by these writers that you esp. recommend? Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From holmsted at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Fri Jun 30 10:31:58 2000 From: holmsted at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Hugh M. Olmsted) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:31:58 +0000 Subject: harvard *card* catalog Message-ID: Sergei-- As always, I'm willing to help. I did get back to you on the Balaika problem, didn't I? After our last go-around I immediately went and checked, and found, as I had suspected, that there is much more in Hollis. There were, as I recall, two entriesa in the card catalog, both of them among the many more that the Hollis search we talked about yielded. Did I ever tell you all this? Somehow a quick check in my back e-files doesn't turn up my message. If not, my deep apologies. I I did, and what you're now writing about is something new, I'll be happy to help out again. Hugh Olmsted ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sendelba at BARD.EDU Fri Jun 30 14:54:04 2000 From: sendelba at BARD.EDU (Donnie Sendelbach) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 10:54:04 -0400 Subject: short stories written by women In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Dear all, > >As I have said before on this list, I am compiling an anthology of >Russian short stories for Penguin Classics. I would be grateful for help >over 2 questions: > >1) Are there any neglected women writers whom I should be including? At >present I am including Teffi, Prismanova, Tsvetaeva (yes, she did write >one excellent short story!), Vera Inber and Petrushevskaya; and possibly >Tolstaya. You might also consider Irina Ratushinskaia ("Krushenie mifa"). -- Donnie Sendelbach, Ph.D. Mellon Technology Fellow in Writing 404 Stevenson Library Bard College Annandale-on-Hudson, NY 12504 (914/845) 758-7829 fax (914/845) 758-6413 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From holmsted at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Fri Jun 30 11:13:00 2000 From: holmsted at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Hugh M. Olmsted) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 11:13:00 +0000 Subject: woops. Message-ID: Haste makes waste. As I trust you have surmised, it was inadvertent nedobditel'nost', not anticollegial malice, that prompted me a few moments ago to clutter up the seelangs e-waves with what was supposed to be a message to one participant. My apologies. HMO ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at WOLFENET.COM Fri Jun 30 16:08:56 2000 From: ggerhart at WOLFENET.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 09:08:56 -0700 Subject: short stories by women Message-ID: Would somebody please explain why the name Tokareva has not come up in this discussion more than once? Genevra ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Fri Jun 30 17:54:38 2000 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 18:54:38 +0100 Subject: short stories by women Message-ID: Dear Genevra and others, I ask questions not when I know something, but when I do NOT know something. I shall be very grateful if will tell us more about Tokareva, and which of her short stories you most admire. Robert Chandler >Would somebody please explain why the name Tokareva has not come up in this >discussion more than once? >Genevra ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From marinab at LELAND.STANFORD.EDU Fri Jun 30 19:41:40 2000 From: marinab at LELAND.STANFORD.EDU (Marina Brodskaya) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 12:41:40 -0700 Subject: short stories by women Message-ID: A few years back Amy Russell (where are you, Amy?) and I translated (and quite successfully) a story by V. Tokareva entitled A Long Day. Robert, Let me know if you would be interested in seeing it for the anthology. With best wishes, Marina ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Chandler To: Sent: Friday, June 30, 2000 10:54 AM Subject: Re: short stories by women > Dear Genevra and others, > > I ask questions not when I know something, but when I do NOT know > something. I shall be very grateful if will tell us more about Tokareva, > and which of her short stories you most admire. > > Robert Chandler > > >Would somebody please explain why the name Tokareva has not come up in this > >discussion more than once? > >Genevra > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Fri Jun 30 20:27:18 2000 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 21:27:18 +0100 Subject: short stories by women Message-ID: Dear Marina, Yes, I'd certainly be interested in looking at it. My address is: 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD, England. Or maybe you can send it as an attached file? But please don't be disappointed if I decide against it. This anthology is already bursting at the seam, and I have to omit something I really like for every new thing I put in. Best Wishes, Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From seej at VT.EDU Fri Jun 30 20:28:52 2000 From: seej at VT.EDU (Christopher J. Syrnyk) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:28:52 -0400 Subject: New Member Introduction Message-ID: SEELANGS members, Please consider this my introduction to the List. I look forward to the collegiality, and trust to take up some of the slack in the e-cultural lag. Best, Christopher Syrnyk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rakitya at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Fri Jun 30 21:54:28 2000 From: rakitya at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Anna Rakityanskaya) Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 16:54:28 -0500 Subject: Job for a Polish speaker Message-ID: Dear friends, National Instruments, one of the nation's leading high-tech companies and one of the Fortune Magazine 100 Best Companies to Work for in America is looking for a Polish-speaking International Sales Coordinator for its office in Dublin. The job description and the contact information are below. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------- National Instruments International Sales Co-ordinator Responsibilities include total support to Eastern European customers by answering and processing customer calls, handling purchase orders, returns, providing status, tracking orders and giving product lead times. Other responsibilities include customer follow up for seminars and events and other internal requests. This position will also offer support to the District Sales Managers in Eastern Europe. Skill requirements include the ability to work in a fast-paced environment, excellent organisation skills and strong oral and written communication skills. The ability to work independently is a must, in addition the familiarity with the business environment in other European countries would be advantageous. Follow up and interpersonal skills are required. Fluency in Polish is a requirement and the ability to speak Czech and other Eastern European languages would be advantageous. Please apply to: ellen.odwyer at ni.com or National Instruments Willsborough Industrial Estate Clonshaugh Dublin 17 Att: Ellen O'Dwyer =========================================================== Anna Rakityanskaya Bibliographer, Center for Russian, East European and Eurasian Studies General Libraries - Cataloging PCL 2.300; S5453 University of Texas Austin, TX 78713-8916 Phone: (512) 495-4188 Fax: (512) 495-4410 E-mail: rakitya at mail.utexas.edu =========================================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------