From sher07 at BELLSOUTH.NET Fri Sep 1 00:13:51 2000 From: sher07 at BELLSOUTH.NET (Benjamin Sher) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 19:13:51 -0500 Subject: Radio Free Europe temporarily OFFLINE! Message-ID: Dear friends: I hope that by the time you get this message, it turns out to be obsolete. Radio Free Europe's Russian Service at: http://www.svoboda.org and http://www.rferl.org has been out of order for several days. I contacted them to find out what's going on, and they told me that they are keenly aware of the situation and are working on it, and that RFE should be back online shortly. Let's hope so. Benjamin -- Benjamin and Anna Sher Rus: http://www.websher.net Shk: http://www.shakespeareindex.net Email: sher07 at bellsouth.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From OKAGAN at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Fri Sep 1 20:32:07 2000 From: OKAGAN at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (OKAGAN at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 12:32:07 PST Subject: Yu.M.Kagan Message-ID: Yudif' Matveevna Kagan passed away in Moscow on August 31. I am posting this sad news to the SEELANG because I know that she had many friends and admirers among American Slavicists. Olga Kagan, UCLA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mnafpakt at UMICH.EDU Fri Sep 1 19:05:51 2000 From: mnafpakt at UMICH.EDU (Margarita Nafpaktitis) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 15:05:51 -0400 Subject: Uniate/Lemko saint Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I'm looking for the correct spelling of the name of a saint who was apparently frequently depicted in icons or paintings in Greek-Catholic/Uniate churches in Lemko communities around the Beskid Niski mountain region of southeastern Poland. The Polish text I'm working with has the name in the genitive as "swietego Dymitra," and I'm just not sure about the ending. Should it be -tr? -tro? If anyone has suggestions on this, I would be grateful! Margarita Nafpaktitis University of Michigan mnafpakt at umich.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eric.laursen at M.CC.UTAH.EDU Fri Sep 1 20:22:36 2000 From: eric.laursen at M.CC.UTAH.EDU (Eric Laursen) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 14:22:36 -0600 Subject: May 20: holiday? Message-ID: Is May 20 an Orthodox holiday? Thanks, Eric Laursen ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From zielinski at ECONOPHONE.CH Fri Sep 1 20:16:41 2000 From: zielinski at ECONOPHONE.CH (Zielinski) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 22:16:41 +0200 Subject: Uniate/Lemko saint Message-ID: Margarita Nafpaktitis schrieb: > The Polish text I'm working > with has the name in the genitive as "swietego Dymitra," and I'm just not > sure about the ending. Should it be -tr? -tro? The nominative form in literary Polish would be "swiety Dymitr". Jan Zielinski, Bern ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kenneth.brostrom at WAYNE.EDU Fri Sep 1 21:15:30 2000 From: kenneth.brostrom at WAYNE.EDU (Kenneth Brostrom) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 17:15:30 -0400 Subject: Ukrainian short stories Message-ID: Can anyone suggest any anthologies containing good English translations of Ukrainian short stories, especially works written during the post-Soviet period (but not necessarily limited to that decade)? Please reply off-line. Thanks in advance, Ken Brostrom Kenneth Brostrom Assoc. Prof. of Russian Dept. of German and Slavic Studies 443 Manoogian Hall Wayne State University Detroit, MI 48202 FAX (313) 577-3266 E-mail: kenneth.brostrom at wayne.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alla.Nedashkivska at UALBERTA.CA Fri Sep 1 22:24:00 2000 From: Alla.Nedashkivska at UALBERTA.CA (Alla Nedashkivska) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 16:24:00 -0600 Subject: Ukrainian short stories Message-ID: Hello Kan, I can suggest two publications: "Two Lands New Visions: Stories from Canada and Ukraine", edited by Janice Kulyk Keefer and Solomea Pavlychko and "From the Tree Worlds" (I believe that this is the title, but I don't have the book in front of me) If you need more information, please do not hesitate to contact me. Sincerely, Alla Nedashkivska ----- Original Message ----- From: Kenneth Brostrom To: Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 3:15 PM Subject: Ukrainian short stories > Can anyone suggest any anthologies containing good English translations of > Ukrainian short stories, especially works written during the post-Soviet > period (but not necessarily limited to that decade)? Please reply > off-line. > > Thanks in advance, > > Ken Brostrom > > Kenneth Brostrom > Assoc. Prof. of Russian > Dept. of German and Slavic Studies > 443 Manoogian Hall > Wayne State University > Detroit, MI 48202 > FAX (313) 577-3266 > E-mail: kenneth.brostrom at wayne.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA Fri Sep 1 22:47:39 2000 From: natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA (Natalia Pylypiuk) Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2000 16:47:39 -0600 Subject: Ukrainian short stories In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Can anyone suggest any anthologies containing good English translations of >Ukrainian short stories, especially works written during the post-Soviet >period (but not necessarily limited to that decade)? Please reply >off-line. > >Thanks in advance, > >Ken Brostrom pane Kene, vitaju! In addition to the collections mentioned by my colleague, Alla Nedashkivska, you might wish to consider the one edited by George S. N. Luckyj, *Modern Ukrainian Short Stories.* However, this bi-lingual edition represents pre- and Soviet material. By the way, *From Three Worlds* (Zephyr Press) was edited by Ed Hogan (who is no longer with us). His guest editors were: Askold Melnyczuk (USA), Michael Naydan (USA), Mykola Riabchuk and Oksana Zabuzhko (both fom Ukraine). Best regrads, Natalia Pylypiuk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexander.Boguslawski at ROLLINS.EDU Sat Sep 2 04:12:01 2000 From: Alexander.Boguslawski at ROLLINS.EDU (Alexander.Boguslawski at ROLLINS.EDU) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 00:12:01 -0400 Subject: Uniate/Lemko saint Message-ID: Dear Margarita (and anyone else interested), swietego Dymitra is genitive of Swiety Dymitr, St. Demetrios (Agios Dimitrios), the patron saint of Thessalonika. The other St. Demetrios, of Tyro (Tiron) is much less popular or frequent in South Polish iconography (and in the iconography of other Orthodox countries as well). I hope this helps, Alexander Boguslawski, Chair Department of Foreign Languages Rollins College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From zielinski at ECONOPHONE.CH Sat Sep 2 08:43:24 2000 From: zielinski at ECONOPHONE.CH (Zielinski) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 10:43:24 +0200 Subject: Solomonia Besnovataja Message-ID: I am looking for a Russian (or translated) text of the life of Solomonia (Salomea) Besnovataja (first written around 1661), a woman said to be held captive by the devils and liberated after many years with the help of St. Theodora, seen by her in her dreams. Jan Zielinski, Bern ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From denis at DA2938.SPB.EDU Sat Sep 2 09:48:51 2000 From: denis at DA2938.SPB.EDU (Denis Akhapkine) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 13:48:51 +0400 Subject: Solomonia Besnovataja Message-ID: > I am looking for a Russian (or translated) text of the life of Solomonia > (Salomea) Besnovataja (first written around 1661), a woman said to be > held captive by the devils and liberated after many years with the help > of St. Theodora, seen by her in her dreams. Text napisan, vidimo, posle 1671 g. (etim godom datiruets'a iscelenie Solomonii). Voshel v zhitie Prokopija Ustuzhskogo (chudo 27) Zhitie prepodobnogo Prokopija Ustuzhskogo. SPb, 1893. Text takzhe opublikovan v: Volkova T. F., Demkova N. S. K izhucheniju repertuara severnorusskoj knizhnosti XVII veka: "Povest' o Solomonii besnovatoj" po Zabelinskomu spisku XVII v. // Ustnye i pis'mennye tradicii v dukhovnoj kul'ture Severa / Red. G. M. Prokhorov. Syktyvkar, 1989S. 149-167. Sm. otdel'nuju statju ob etom texte s obshirnoj bibliographiej v knige: Demkova N. S. Srednevekovaja russkaja literatura. SPb., 1997. S. 121-135. Denis Akhapkine, PhD student phone +7 (812) 552-9750 (home) Department of Russian Language e-mail denis at da2938.spb.edu Faculty of Philology www.ruthenia.ru/hyperboreos Saint-Petersburg State University Universitetskaya nab. 11 Saint-Petersburg 199034, Russia ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ElisabethG at YUCOM.BE Sat Sep 2 10:05:34 2000 From: ElisabethG at YUCOM.BE (Elisabeth Ghysels) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 12:05:34 +0200 Subject: in which library? In-Reply-To: <39B0BDAC.2E51ED00@econophone.ch> Message-ID: For a study on E.N. Trubeckoy we are in search of the following material, which we can't locate. I would be grateful for any hint on which library (European, or willing to copy and fax or mail) might have some of these sources. Any other suggestion concerning availability of these materials or other hints are also welcome of course. The texts we are searching at the moment are: 1a)(E.N.Trubeckoi) Vospominanija. Opublikovano posmertno. Sofija, 1921, 195 str. Doklady, publicnye lekcii, pojavivciesja vvide otdelnyh brosjur mezdu 1914 i 1916 gg. (found in this form in a bibliography on E.N. Trubeckoi) 1b) A. Trubeckoi (Editor): Knjaz E.N.T. Vospominanija. Sofija 1922 (found in this form in another bibliography; I'm not sure, whether 1a) and 1b) are not identical despite the small differences) 2) E.N. Trubeckoi: Smysl Zisni. Moskva 1918, VI+232str.; (or the second edition which appeared in Berlin in 1922) 3) E.N. Trubeckoi (or Trubetzkoy): Die religiöse Weltanschauung der altrussischen Ikonenmalerei, herausgegeben und eingeleitet von Nicolaus von Arseniew, Paderborn 1927 4) F. Praxl: Die Rechtfertigung Gottes nach E.N. Trubetzkoy. München 1965 (Dissertation) 5) V.V. Zenkovskii: Istorija russkoj filosofii, Band II. Paris 1950 6) B. Schultze: Russische Denker. Ihre Stellung zu Christus, Kirche und Papsttum. Wien 1950 7) N. von Bubnoff (editor): Russische Religionsphilosophen. Dokumente. Heidelberg 1956 8) Knyaz' Evgenii Trubeckoi. Tri ocherka o russkoi ikone, M. 91g. Thanks very much, Dr. Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger Spichtenberg 7 B 9681 Nukerke tel: **32 - 55 - 21 99 85 email: Nikolaus.Lutz at rug.ac.be or nld at yucom.be http://dreamwater.net/nikolaus/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From zielinski at ECONOPHONE.CH Sat Sep 2 10:51:28 2000 From: zielinski at ECONOPHONE.CH (Zielinski) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 12:51:28 +0200 Subject: Solomonia Besnovataja Message-ID: Denis Akhapkine schrieb: (...) Thanks a lot for such an immediate and prompt answer. Jan Zielinski, Bern ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bougakov at MAIL.RU Sat Sep 2 09:51:08 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 13:51:08 +0400 Subject: May 20: holiday? In-Reply-To: <01C01420.1627F400@pub-dial48.aclis.utah.edu> Message-ID: Hello Eric, Saturday, September 02, 2000, 12:22:36 AM, you wrote: EL> Is May 20 an Orthodox holiday? No. The closest Orthodox holidays are: 20.04 - Velikij Chetverg 21.04 - Strastnaya Pyatnitsa 23.04 - Paskha 24.04 - Paskhalnyj ponedelnik 01.06 - Prazdnik Vosnesenya 11.06 - Troitsyn den 18.06 - Troitsa 22.06 - Prazdnik tela Christova 29.06 - Den Sv. Petra i Pavla These dates are valid for the year 2000, they may shift in the next year (some of them are related to the day of the week). But anyway there are no great Orthodox holidays in May. Maybe you have muddled May and April? Cordially, Alexandre Bougakov Sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My website is http://SocioLink.narod.ru/ (thousands of sociology related links on the Web - in Russian, Microsoft Internet Explorer 4 or higher is required) My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Rolf.Fieguth at UNIFR.CH Mon Sep 4 07:54:31 2000 From: Rolf.Fieguth at UNIFR.CH (Rolf Fieguth) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 09:54:31 +0200 Subject: in which library? Message-ID: You have a good chance to find most, if not all the titles you are seeking, using http://kvk.ubka.uni-karlsruhe.de/ Make a cross on every library catalog which is indicated there. You can give in "Trubetzkoy" or "Trubeckoj". When reading the result list, do not forget to click on "Weitere Treffer". Good luck, Rolf Fieguth ---------- >From: Elisabeth Ghysels >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: in which library? >Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 12:05:34 +0200 > > For a study on E.N. Trubeckoy we are in search of the following material, > which we can't locate. I would be grateful for any hint on which library > (European, or willing to copy and fax or mail) might have some of these > sources. Any other suggestion concerning availability of these materials or > other hints are also welcome of course. The texts we are searching at the > moment are: > > 1a)(E.N.Trubeckoi) Vospominanija. Opublikovano posmertno. Sofija, 1921, 195 > str. Doklady, publicnye lekcii, pojavivciesja vvide otdelnyh brosjur mezdu > 1914 i 1916 gg. > (found in this form in a bibliography on E.N. Trubeckoi) > 1b) A. Trubeckoi (Editor): Knjaz E.N.T. Vospominanija. Sofija 1922 > (found in this form in another bibliography; I'm not sure, whether 1a) and > 1b) are not identical despite the small differences) > > 2) E.N. Trubeckoi: Smysl Zisni. Moskva 1918, VI+232str.; (or the second > edition which appeared in Berlin in 1922) > > 3) E.N. Trubeckoi (or Trubetzkoy): Die religiöse Weltanschauung der > altrussischen Ikonenmalerei, herausgegeben und eingeleitet von Nicolaus von > Arseniew, Paderborn 1927 > > 4) F. Praxl: Die Rechtfertigung Gottes nach E.N. Trubetzkoy. München 1965 > (Dissertation) > > 5) V.V. Zenkovskii: Istorija russkoj filosofii, Band II. Paris 1950 > > 6) B. Schultze: Russische Denker. Ihre Stellung zu Christus, Kirche und > Papsttum. Wien 1950 > > 7) N. von Bubnoff (editor): Russische Religionsphilosophen. Dokumente. > Heidelberg 1956 > > 8) Knyaz' Evgenii Trubeckoi. Tri ocherka o russkoi ikone, M. 91g. > > Thanks very much, > > Dr. Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger > Spichtenberg 7 > B 9681 Nukerke > tel: **32 - 55 - 21 99 85 > email: Nikolaus.Lutz at rug.ac.be > or nld at yucom.be > http://dreamwater.net/nikolaus/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Rolf.Fieguth at UNIFR.CH Mon Sep 4 08:59:59 2000 From: Rolf.Fieguth at UNIFR.CH (Rolf Fieguth) Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 10:59:59 +0200 Subject: in which library? Message-ID: Sorry, I have been informed that the address I gave up does not work. Try with the address: http://www.ubka.uni-karlsruhe.de/kvk.html Rolf Fieguth ---------- >From: Rolf Fieguth >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: Re: in which library? >Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2000 09:54:31 +0200 > > You have a good chance to find most, if not all the titles you are seeking, > using > http://kvk.ubka.uni-karlsruhe.de/ > > Make a cross on every library catalog which is indicated there. > > You can give in "Trubetzkoy" or "Trubeckoj". When reading the result list, > do not forget to click on "Weitere Treffer". > > Good luck, Rolf Fieguth > > ---------- >>From: Elisabeth Ghysels >>To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >>Subject: in which library? >>Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 12:05:34 +0200 >> > >> For a study on E.N. Trubeckoy we are in search of the following material, >> which we can't locate. I would be grateful for any hint on which library >> (European, or willing to copy and fax or mail) might have some of these >> sources. Any other suggestion concerning availability of these materials or >> other hints are also welcome of course. The texts we are searching at the >> moment are: >> >> 1a)(E.N.Trubeckoi) Vospominanija. Opublikovano posmertno. Sofija, 1921, 195 >> str. Doklady, publicnye lekcii, pojavivciesja vvide otdelnyh brosjur mezdu >> 1914 i 1916 gg. >> (found in this form in a bibliography on E.N. Trubeckoi) >> 1b) A. Trubeckoi (Editor): Knjaz E.N.T. Vospominanija. Sofija 1922 >> (found in this form in another bibliography; I'm not sure, whether 1a) and >> 1b) are not identical despite the small differences) >> >> 2) E.N. Trubeckoi: Smysl Zisni. Moskva 1918, VI+232str.; (or the second >> edition which appeared in Berlin in 1922) >> >> 3) E.N. Trubeckoi (or Trubetzkoy): Die religiöse Weltanschauung der >> altrussischen Ikonenmalerei, herausgegeben und eingeleitet von Nicolaus von >> Arseniew, Paderborn 1927 >> >> 4) F. Praxl: Die Rechtfertigung Gottes nach E.N. Trubetzkoy. München 1965 >> (Dissertation) >> >> 5) V.V. Zenkovskii: Istorija russkoj filosofii, Band II. Paris 1950 >> >> 6) B. Schultze: Russische Denker. Ihre Stellung zu Christus, Kirche und >> Papsttum. Wien 1950 >> >> 7) N. von Bubnoff (editor): Russische Religionsphilosophen. Dokumente. >> Heidelberg 1956 >> >> 8) Knyaz' Evgenii Trubeckoi. Tri ocherka o russkoi ikone, M. 91g. >> >> Thanks very much, >> >> Dr. Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger >> Spichtenberg 7 >> B 9681 Nukerke >> tel: **32 - 55 - 21 99 85 >> email: Nikolaus.Lutz at rug.ac.be >> or nld at yucom.be >> http://dreamwater.net/nikolaus/ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU Tue Sep 5 14:33:34 2000 From: sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU (Sibelan Forrester) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 10:33:34 -0400 Subject: job in Russian Message-ID: Assistant Professor of Russian, three-year position with possibility of renewal, beginning August 2001. Primary specialization in nineteenth- and/or twentieth-century prose. Essential qualifications include: PhD in hand by August 2001; commitment to undergraduate education; evidence of scholarly promise; ability to teach the language at all levels; native or near-native English and Russian; lively classroom presence. Secondary specialization in popular culture, cultural studies, political or philosophical aspects of literature, Soviet and post-Soviet film, theater, or a second East European or Central Asian literature would be a plus. Send dossiers including transcript, 3 letters of recommendation, teaching evaluations, and a writing sample (at least 10 pages) by November 15, 2000 to: Sibelan Forrester, Russian Search Committee Modern Languages and Literatures Swarthmore College 500 College Ave. Swarthmore, PA 19081-1397 We will be interviewing at AATSEEL in Washington, DC. Swarthmore College is an EEO employer, women and minorities are encouraged to apply. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yoffe at GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU Tue Sep 5 21:30:31 2000 From: yoffe at GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU (Mark Yoffe) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 17:30:31 -0400 Subject: Dr. Yoffe's here! Message-ID: Dorogaia Ivonna, privet! It was a while since we spoke last and perhaps this time is as good as any to re-connect. I'll start with business question first: Last year and this year I am teaching here at GWU a course titled: Vampires in Slavic folklore and Western popular culture, for depts of Slavic and Anthropogy. I just returned from a Vampire "hunting" expedition in the Balkans -- lots of great information! In any case, I am offering this course to be taught in other schools, would you be interested? I can do a mini course out of it -- one week long or less. It can be also just one lecture on the subject -- one hour or so. For instance here at GWU I am delivering this October my first Annual Holloween Lecture: Vampires -- Reality or Myth?! (Corny, huh?) But people love Vampires for some strange reason, my course is a blockbaster... So, perhaps I could interest Richmond in inviting me to do something ... Vampirical? As to life... I keep collecting counterculture, just brought a bag of CD's from Hungary. Am still unmaried. Still like DC but ready to probably change it for something with better climate, allergies here are killing me. What is new in your life? How is Southern living? Are you still chairing your Dept? Any interesting new research? How is family? How is your beautiful Sonia? I'll stop here. Best MY -- Mark Yoffe, Ph.D. Curator, International Counterculture Archive Slavic Librarian, The George Washington University, Washington, D.C. HTTP://gwis2.circ.gwu.edu/~yoffe E-mail: yoffe at gwis2.circ.gwu.edu Phone: 202 994-6303 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM Tue Sep 5 23:40:04 2000 From: kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM (richard tomback) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 19:40:04 -0400 Subject: old russian for ox Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, Is the Old Russian word TYR ,translated as bull, related to the Aramaic Tora < Proto Semitic Thaura. If so, what is the origin of this term , and at what point in time did Old Russian assimilate the word? Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brifkin at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Wed Sep 6 01:46:11 2000 From: brifkin at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 20:46:11 -0500 Subject: New MA Program in Rus., E. Euro. and Cen. Asian Studies Message-ID: The University of Wisconsin-Madison announces a new interdisciplinary M.A. program in Russian, East European, and Central Asian Studies Overview of Program The M.A. Degree Program for Russian, East European, and Central Asian Studies will provide interdisciplinary area studies training for students interested in pursuing professional careers in business, government, journalism, and law and for students planning further graduate study in an established academic discipline. The curriculum is designed to: promote a broad understanding of the cultural, political, economic, social, and historical factors that have shaped the development of societies in the former Soviet Union and Eastern Europe establish mastery in Russian, East European, or Central Asian languages at a level necessary for doing advanced research or professional work in the region improve knowledge of methodological and analytical approaches of different disciplines that will contribute to a better understanding of the region; and knowledge of the methodological approaches in the student's chosen discipline to prepare students for advanced research. Faculty M.A. students will work closely with nationally recognized faculty in core departments, including Geography, History, Central Asia Studies, Political Science, and Slavic Languages and Literatures. Curriculum The M.A. Program comprises language study and rigorous training in interdisciplinary area studies. The program includes 27 credits of non-language courses and completion of an M.A. Thesis. The University regularly offers instruction in Czech, Finnish, Kazakh, Polish, Russian, Serbo-Croatian, Turkish, and Uzbek. Bulgarian, Romanian, and Tatar are also available. Completion of program expected within two academic years. Students entering the M.A. Program must have a Bachelor's degree from an accredited institution and provide evidence of academic achievement and intellectual ability, including a minimum total grade point average of 3.0 on a four-point scale, letters of recommendation, and sufficiently high scores on the Graduate Record Examination. The program is designed to be flexible and individual and to appeal to a range of student demands; therefore, no rigid prior course of study is required for application. There is no minimum admission requirement for language. Applications: To be considered for financial aid, applications must be received by January 1, 2001. Applications will be accepted until April 15, 2001. For further information and applications, access http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/creeca or contact the Admissions Committee, Center for Russia, East Europe, and Central Asia, 210 Ingraham Hall, 1155 Observatory Drive, Madison, WI 53706. Phone: (608) 262-3379, Fax: (608) 265-3062, email: creeca at intl-institute.wisc.edu. -- Benjamin Rifkin Associate Prof., Slavic Dept., UW-Madison 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Dr. Madison, WI 53706 voice: 608/262-1623; fax: 608/265-2814; Director of the Russian School Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 voice: 802/443-5533; fax: 802/443-5394 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From goscilo+ at PITT.EDU Wed Sep 6 02:05:00 2000 From: goscilo+ at PITT.EDU (Helena Goscilo) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 22:05:00 -0400 Subject: Call for papers Message-ID: CALL FOR PAPERS STUDIES IN SLAVIC CULTURES (SISC), the journal devoted exclusively to research by graduate students and published by the University of Pittsburgh Slavic Dept., welcomes submissions to its second issue: "ANNA KARENINA" ON PAGE AND SCREEN. Manuscripts should observe standard SEEJ format and Library of Congress transliteration, be double spaced, and not exceed 25 pages. Deadline for submissions is 15 October 2000. Please direct all inquiries via E-mail to the General Editor, Helena Goscilo , and the Managing Editor, Petre Petrov . One copy of the manuscript (i.e., hard copy) should be mailed to Goscilo, Slavic Department, 1417CL, University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh PA 15260, the other as an E-mail attachment to . Helena Goscilo Petre Petrov ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at SPRINT.CA Wed Sep 6 03:34:46 2000 From: colkitto at SPRINT.CA (Robert Orr) Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2000 23:34:46 -0400 Subject: old russian for ox Message-ID: Old Russian "tur" actually means "aurochs", referring to the wild animal, not "bull" as such, while its cognates in Latin, Greek, Old Irish, refer to the domestic animal, parallel to the case of "dog and "wolf". The root is Indo-European. It may have been borrowed from Semitic into Indo-European, or it may be cognate with the Semitic forms. Robert Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p.barta at SURREY.AC.UK Wed Sep 6 11:37:16 2000 From: p.barta at SURREY.AC.UK (Dr Peter I. Barta) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 12:37:16 +0100 Subject: BASEES Conference 2001, Cambridge UK Message-ID: CALL FOR PAPERS Abstracts (100 words) are invited for 20-minute papers in LITERATURE, WOMEN'S STUDIES, GENDER STUDIES, FILM AND MEDIA STUDIES, CULTURAL STUDIES to be given at the annual convention of the British Association of Slavonic and East European Studies at Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge University (UK) between 6-9 April 2001. Send abstract by 15 October 2000 to PETER I. BARTA (p.barta at surrey.ac.uk) at the Dept. of Linguistic and International Studies, University of Surrey, Guildford, Surrey GU2 5XH, England. Peter I. Barta Professor of Russian and Cultural Studies Head, Russian Studies University of Surrey Guildford GU2 5XH England Tel: (01483) 300800 ext 2822 e-mail: p.barta at surrey.ac.uk fax: (01483)259527 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tc0jxk1 at CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU Wed Sep 6 20:03:16 2000 From: tc0jxk1 at CORN.CSO.NIU.EDU (kot joanna) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:03:16 -0500 Subject: Polish Fonts Message-ID: I would be grateful if somebody could help me find a good Polish font compatible with Windows and an International keyboard. We have just started teaching Polish at Northern Illinois U. and my dept. installed a font called "Ogonki 3.0". Unfortunately, it seems to be reeking havoc with the other languages in our Learning Center, especially Spanish. It somehow effects the diacritical markings in the other languages. The service people for this software can't seem to help. So if anybody has had similar problems or has found a good Polish font please let me know. Sincerely, Joanna Kot Assoc. prof. of Russian and Polish Northern Illinois University tc0jxk1 at corn.cso.niu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mzs at UNLSERVE.UNL.EDU Wed Sep 6 21:20:15 2000 From: mzs at UNLSERVE.UNL.EDU (Mila Saskova-Pierce) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:20:15 -0500 Subject: Polish Fonts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Microsoft Word has a good program for Polish. (I have Office 2000). It can toggle among several languages for typing (via little squares at the bottom of the page), and displays all the characters from other languages correctly on the same page. I did not have any problems, including Turkish and Russian letters in a Czech text. Mila Saskova-Pierce >I would be grateful if somebody could help me find a good Polish font >compatible with Windows and an International keyboard. We have just >started teaching Polish at Northern Illinois U. and my dept. installed a >font called "Ogonki 3.0". Unfortunately, it seems to be reeking havoc >with the other languages in our Learning Center, especially Spanish. It >somehow effects the diacritical markings in the other languages. The >service people for this software can't seem to help. > >So if anybody has had similar problems or has found a good Polish font >please let me know. > >Sincerely, >Joanna Kot >Assoc. prof. of Russian and Polish >Northern Illinois University >tc0jxk1 at corn.cso.niu.edu > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce University of Nebraska 1133 Oldfather Hall, Lincoln, NE 68588-0315 Tel: (402) 472 1336 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Wed Sep 6 21:50:34 2000 From: cfwoolhiser at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (curt fredric woolhiser) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:50:34 -0500 Subject: Association for Belarusian Studies Message-ID: Dear Colleagues: In 1991 the International Association of Belarusianists (IAB/MAB) was established to promote international cooperation and dialogue between scholars with an interest in Belarus and to heighten awareness of Belarus and Belarusian studies within the academic community. Under the aegis of the IAB, national and regional associations have been created to further the goals of the organization within their respective countries. The North American Association for Belarusian Studies (NAABS) is the newest of these IAB affiliates, joining already existing affiliates in Belarus, Poland, Russia, Ukraine, Lithuania, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Austria, Germany, France and Great Britain. NAABS is a non-profit scholarly organization which promotes teaching, research and publication in all areas of Belarusian studies, including history, language, literature and the arts, sociology, anthropology, politics, economics and international relations. NAABS seeks to foster communication and interdisciplinary collaboration between scholars engaged in Belarusian studies by sponsoring conferences, panels and workshops at the regional, national and international levels. As acting President and Vice-President of NAABS, it gives us great pleasure to invite you to join NAABS and contribute to the growth of Belarusian studies in North America. NAABS will be having an organizational meeting at the AAASS convention in Denver this November, where we will hold elections for officers (President, Vice-President, Secretary-Treasurer, Newsletter Editor, and a five-member Executive Council), discuss and vote on a draft the Association's by-laws, and plan our future activities. We will also discuss the possibility of publishing a newsletter and the related issue of membership dues. The meeting has been scheduled for Session 11, Sunday, November 12, 10:15-12:15; Director's Row G. We encourage all those who have an interest in Belarusian studies and who will be in Denver for AAASS to take part in this meeting and to make their voices heard. If you would like to nominate yourself or a colleague for any leadership position in NAABS, please contact Curt Woolhiser, Acting President, or Maria Paula Survilla, Acting Vice- President (see contact information below) before October 30, 2000. Potential members of NAABS who will not be attending the AAASS convention but would like to participate in the elections may vote by absentee ballot. Current acting officers (terms expire on November 12) are: President: Dr. Curt Woolhiser, Dept. of Slavic Languages, University of Texas (Field: Slavic Linguistics; Research interests: Belarusian historical linguistics, dialectology and sociolinguistics; language attitudes and language ideologies; language planning and policy) Vice-President: Dr. Maria Paula Survilla, Dept. of Music, Wartburg College (Iowa) (Field: Ethnomusicology; Research interests: Belarusian traditional and urban music; music and national identity) Secretary-Treasurer: position currently vacant Newsletter Editor: position currently vacant Acting Executive Council: Dr. David Marples, Dept. of History, University of Alberta (Field: History; Research interests: History of Belarus (20th century emphasis);the impact of Chernobyl; health and social-demographic issues; contemporary Belarusian politics) Dr. Zina Gimpelevich, Dept. of Slavic Languages, Waterloo University (Canada) (Field: Slavic Studies; Research interests: Belarusian language and literature; the works of Vasil Bykau) (+ 3 additional members to be elected at organizational meeting in November) If you would be interested in joining NAABS, or would like any further information about our organization, please contact us. We would like to request that all potential members send us an e-mail or postcard listing their name, affiliation, and areas of interest (this information will be forwarded to AAASS in connection with our application for AAASS affiliate status; please note that AAASS requires that a significant percentage of affiliate members belong to AAASS). We would also like to take this opportunity to encourage you to join the International Association of Belarusianists (IAB/MAB). For membership information, please contact Dr. Adam Mal'dzis at: Respublika Belarus' 220050 Minsk, vul. Revaliucyjnaja, 15 Kamitet HA "MAB" Tel.: 375 (017) 220 76 04 Fax: 375 (017) 220 93 50 Email: mab at lingvo.minsk.by Dues-paying members of IAB/MAB receive the Association's bimonthly bulletin "Kantakty i dyjalohi," each issue of which includes an extensive international bibliography of new publications in all areas of Belarusian studies (an English-language version of "K&D" is currently in the planning stages). A condensed, on-line version of "Kantakty i dyjalohi" is also available at: http://www.lingvo.minsk.by. In the latest issue of "K&D" you will find a report on the First Session of the III International Congress of Belarusianists, which was held in Minsk, May 22-24. The Second, Fall Session of the III Congress will take place in Minsk on December 5-6, 2000. We very much hope that you will consider participating in NAABS, and we look forward to hearing from you. Sincerely, Curt Woolhiser Maria Paula Survilla Acting President, NAABS Acting Vice-President, NAABS Vice-President (2000-2004), IAB ============================================================================== Curt Woolhiser Maria Paula Survilla Dept. of Slavic Languages Department of Music and Literatures Wartburg College Calhoun 415 222 Ninth St. N. W. University of Texas Waverly, IA 50677 Austin, TX 78713-7217 Tel. (512) 471-3607 Tel: (319) 352-8343 Fax: (512) 471-6710 Fax: (319) 352-8501 Email: cfwoolhiser at mail.utexas.edu Email: survilla at wartburg.edu http://www.dla.utexas.edu/depts/slavic/ http://www.wartburg.edu/musdept ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tritt002 at MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU Wed Sep 6 23:01:49 2000 From: tritt002 at MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU (Michael Trittipo) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2000 18:01:49 -0500 Subject: Polish Fonts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 15:03 2000/09/06 -0500, you wrote: >I would be grateful if somebody could help me find a good Polish font >compatible with Windows and an International keyboard. Do you have any other requirements? If it has to work with the later versions of WordPerfect, then you may have problems. (WordPerfect can do Polish, I'm told, but it has its own fonts.) If it's good enough for you that something works in Word & WordPad, then Dr. Saskova-Pierce's suggestion ought to work. By the way, it's now possible to do Czech (plus Polish, Turkish, etc.) on the Palm. The "Interpilot" program at http://www.sergem.net/interpilot/Default.htm works like a charm. I now have all the Czech diacritics available in all of my Palm's programs where I want them; the Graffiti handwriting strokes to enter them are easy; & the diacritics transfer well into my Windows programs, too, on syncing up. (Sometimes, e.g., with memos, I have to cut & paste from some program that doesn't know all system fonts, like Outlook's memos, into some program that does, like WordPad or Textpad; but that's not Interpilot's fault, it's a Microsoft issue.) I don't have any connection to Interpilot, other than being a very satisfied user. Michael Trittipo Minneapolis, Minnesota mailto:tritt002 at tc.umn.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From continent at HOME.COM Thu Sep 7 14:41:25 2000 From: continent at HOME.COM (Marina Adamovitch) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 10:41:25 -0400 Subject: 102d issue of Continent Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The Moscow based literary magazine Continent is organizing a presention of its 102d issue. The presentation will take place on September, 19, at 6:30pm at the offices of magazine Slovo-Word at 45 East 33rd street between Madison and Park avenues, in New York City. The 102nd issue of Continent is composed of texts of native Russian authors living in the United States as well as American slavists. The authors featured in the issue will give presentation at this meeting, and the representative of the magazine will provide the information about Continent. Marina Adamovitch ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jschill at AMERICAN.EDU Thu Sep 7 19:48:34 2000 From: jschill at AMERICAN.EDU (John Schillinger) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2000 15:48:34 -0400 Subject: Novosibirsk Message-ID: One of my students, just back from a year in Moscow, has asked me to post this request . I'd appreciate any help I can get from SEELANGERS, she's an excellent student! Thanks! Her message: I am applying for a Fulbright Scholarship to study non-profit/non-governmental organizations in the Novosibirsk region, and I would like to make contacts with people who work in that field and area. Also, if anyone knows anything about how I could arrange to take classes at Novosibirsk State University, please let me know. Thank you! Erin Trouth -- John Schillinger Dept. of Language and Foreign Studies 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20016-8045 Phone: 202/885-2395 Fax 202-885-1076 Weekend phone 540/465-2828 Fax 540/465-2965 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mzs at UNLSERVE.UNL.EDU Fri Sep 8 17:57:37 2000 From: mzs at UNLSERVE.UNL.EDU (Mila Saskova-Pierce) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:57:37 -0500 Subject: [ruslantra] Re: Novosibirsk In-Reply-To: <004101c019ad$442b5120$8a0b883e@default> Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1883 bytes Desc: not available URL: From AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM Fri Sep 8 20:12:20 2000 From: AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM (Jerry Ervin) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 16:12:20 -0400 Subject: Pension payments Message-ID: Question for all: how are pension payments in Russia received these days? Are checks sent through the mail, or is direct deposit being used? (Surely it's not all done in cash, is it?) Thanks, Jerry * * * * * Gerard L. (Jerry) Ervin 1933 N. Fountain Park Dr., Tucson, AZ 85715 USA Phone: 520/885-2509 Fax: 520/885-2663 Email: * * * * * ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Fri Sep 8 20:23:41 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 13:23:41 -0700 Subject: Pension payments In-Reply-To: <200009081612_MC2-B2AA-C915@compuserve.com> Message-ID: I don't know the answer to your question specifically, but an interesting note: my Russian tutor's mother came to Canada to live, but is still receiving her Russian pension, and they are depositing it into her Canadian bank account. I was quite amazed that they would do that. Kat -- Kat Tancock UVic CALL Facility http://web.uvic.ca/hcmc tancockk at uvic.ca > Question for all: how are pension payments in Russia received these days? > Are checks sent through the mail, or is direct deposit being used? (Surely > it's not all done in cash, is it?) > > Thanks, > > Jerry > > * * * * * > Gerard L. (Jerry) Ervin > 1933 N. Fountain Park Dr., Tucson, AZ 85715 USA > Phone: 520/885-2509 > Fax: 520/885-2663 > Email: > * * * * * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From renee at ALINGA.COM Fri Sep 8 21:18:22 2000 From: renee at ALINGA.COM (Renee Stillings) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 17:18:22 -0400 Subject: Pension payments Message-ID: Combination of direct deposit and cash from what I can tell. Sberbank and even some metro kassas give them out. Student stipends are being paid by direct deposit also now. Renee ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Ervin" To: Sent: Friday, September 08, 2000 4:12 PM Subject: Pension payments Question for all: how are pension payments in Russia received these days? Are checks sent through the mail, or is direct deposit being used? (Surely it's not all done in cash, is it?) Thanks, Jerry * * * * * Gerard L. (Jerry) Ervin 1933 N. Fountain Park Dr., Tucson, AZ 85715 USA Phone: 520/885-2509 Fax: 520/885-2663 Email: * * * * * ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From idshevelenko at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Fri Sep 8 21:02:43 2000 From: idshevelenko at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (Irina Shevelenko) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 16:02:43 -0500 Subject: Pension payments Message-ID: Pensions are never paid in checks, and other payments (wages, etc) are never made in Russia by checks either. All pensioners technically have an account in a bank (in a particular bank authorised by the municipal authorities to process pensions operations), to which their pension payments go, but physically people just come to the post office or bank and receive cash. (If pensioners are unable to come in person, cash may be delivered to their homes.) Jerry Ervin wrote: > Question for all: how are pension payments in Russia received these days? > Are checks sent through the mail, or is direct deposit being used? (Surely > it's not all done in cash, is it?) > > Thanks, > > Jerry > > * * * * * > Gerard L. (Jerry) Ervin > 1933 N. Fountain Park Dr., Tucson, AZ 85715 USA > Phone: 520/885-2509 > Fax: 520/885-2663 > Email: > * * * * * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Hettlinger at ACTR.ORG Fri Sep 8 21:33:32 2000 From: Hettlinger at ACTR.ORG (Graham Hettlinger) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 17:33:32 -0400 Subject: Financial Support for Graduate Students of Russian Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers: Graduate students are eligible for Title VIII State Department fellowships to study Russian language in Moscow and St. Petersburg on the American Councils for International Education semester, academic year and summer programs. Awards range from two to ten thousand dollars; they are made on the basis of need and merit. The American Councils for International Education: ACTR/ACCELS has administered intensive Russian language study programs in immersion settings for American undergraduates and graduate students since 1976. The Russian Language and Area Studies Program provides approximately twenty hours per week of in-class instruction in Russian grammar, phonetics, conversation, and cultural studies at Moscow International University, Moscow State Linguistics University, and the Russian State Pedagogical University (Gertsen Institute) in St. Petersburg. All classes are conducted in Russian by regular members of university faculty. A full-time resident director oversees the academic and cultural programs and assists participants in academic, administrative, and personal matters. Students may live with Russian host families or in university dormitories. Full time home-stay coordinators in each city arrange host family placement and assist participants with host family issues. Students may participate in unpaid internships at local public schools, charities, and international businesses, depending on language level and other relevant schools. Academic Year students may choose to conduct independent research during the spring semester. Students are assigned a specialist from the university faculty to oversee their research projects, which culminate in a ten to fifteen page paper in Russian. Participants are registered for academic credit at Bryn Mawr College. Graduate students receive the equivalent of 15 academic hours for one semester; 30 for the academic year, and 10 for the summer program. Undergraduates students receive the equivalent of 16 academic hours for one semester, 32 for the academic year, and 8 for the summer program. Application Deadlines: Spring Semester: October 15; Fall/Academic Year Program: April 1; Summer Program, March 1. Please write to outbound at actr.org for more information and applications. Graham Hettlinger Manager, Outbound Prorgams American Councils for International Education 1776 Massachusetts Avenue, NW Suite 700 Washington, DC 20036 (202) 833-7522 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Hettlinger at ACTR.ORG Fri Sep 8 21:58:28 2000 From: Hettlinger at ACTR.ORG (Graham Hettlinger) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 17:58:28 -0400 Subject: Financial Support for Research and Study in the NIS Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, The American Councils for International Education: ACTR/ACCELS currently administers a wide range of fellowship programs for graduate students, scholars and teachers who wish to conduct research and/or study in the NIS and east-central Europe. Applications are currently being accepted for the following programs: National Endowment for the Humanities Collaborative Research Fellowship: Fellows receive up to $30,000 to conduct research in the former Soviet Union or east-central Europe for four to nine months. Applicants may request contact information from American Councils for potential research collaborators in their chosen fields and regions. Open to post-doctoral scholars; proficiency in regional language is not required if applicant demonstrates research does not necessitate language skills. Application deadline: February 15, 2001. Title VIII Research Scholar Program: Provides full support for three to nine-month research trips to the former Soviet Union. Fellowships include round-trip international travel, housing, living stipends, visas, insurance, affiliation fees, archive access, research advising, and logistical support in the field. Typical awards range from $12,000 to $25,000. Open to graduate students, post-docs, and faculty. Application deadline: October 1, 2000 (Spring Program); February 15, 2001 (Summer and Fall Programs). Combined Research and Language Training Program: Provides full support and approximately eight hours per week of individualized language instruction for three to nine months. Language classes are designed to help scholars work successfully in archives and develop advanced Russian skills. Fellowships provide round-trip international travel, housing, tuition, living stipends, visas, insurance, affiliation fees, archive access, research advising, and logistical support in the field. Typical awards range from $12,000 to $25,000. Open to graduate students, post-docs, and faculty. Application deadline: October 15, 2000 (Spring Program); March 1, 2001 (Summer Program); April 1, 2001 (Academic Year and Fall Program). Regional Scholar Exchange Program: Open to advanced graduate students and junior to mid-career faculty. Provides round-trip international travel, living stipends, research affiliation, archive access, insurance, and ongoing logistical support in the field. Typical awards range from $8,000 to $15,000. Application deadline: February 15, 2001. Central Europe Summer Language Program: Offers international airfare, tuition, insurance, and living stipends to graduate students for up to three months of intensive language study at major universities throughout east-central Europe and the Baltic states. Application deadline: March 1, 2001. Central Europe Research Program: Provides full support for three to nine month research trips to east-central Europe. Fellowships include round-trip international travel, housing, living stipends, visas, insurance, and affiliation fees. Typical awards range from $12,000 to $25,000. Open to graduate students, post-docs, and faculty. Application deadline: October 15, 2000 (Spring Programs); March 1, 2001 (Summer Program); April 1, 2001 (Fall Semester and Academic Year Programs). Summer Russian Language Teachers Program: Offers current and future teachers of Russian the opportunity to study Russian language and culture at Moscow State University for six weeks, beginning mid-June. Fellowships provide round-trip international airfare from Washington, DC to Moscow, pre-departure orientation, full tuition at Moscow State University, housing with Russian host families, insurance, and a one hundred dollar per week living stipend. Fellowship recipients must be U.S. citizens or permanent residents who currently teach Russian at the university, high school or grade school level, or graduate students who intend a teaching career. Funded by the Department of Education. Application deadline: February 15, 2001. For more information, please contact: Outbound Programs, American Councils for International Education, 1776 Massachusetts Avenue, NW, Suite 700, Washington, DC 20036; (202) 833-7522, outbound at actr.org Graham Hettlinger Manager, Outbound Programs American Councils for International Education 1776 Massachusetts Avenue, NW Suite 700 Washington, DC 20036 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Fri Sep 8 18:45:38 2000 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 18:45:38 +0000 Subject: enrollments again Message-ID: Dear colleagues: Here at SUNY Buffalo the semester has already begun and, would you believe, I have 22 students in my first semester class (4 more than last year) and this with no advertising or recruitment efforts. The students' reasons for taking Russian vary, with two (adult) students having been involved in exchanges, some having friends, some having taken it in elementary school (two), and a few because they had "free time" and wanted to study it. I don't know how many will continue, of course. Having 22 students in a class that stresses oral work is not a good idea, but that's the way my university administration wants it. Cheers to all, Emily Tall ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Sat Sep 9 00:24:01 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 19:24:01 -0500 Subject: enrollments again In-Reply-To: <39B933D2.9537CC52@acsu.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: At 06:45 PM 9/8/00 +0000, you wrote: >Dear colleagues: Here at SUNY Buffalo the semester has already begun >and, would you believe, I have 22 students in my first semester class (4 >more than last year) and this with no advertising or recruitment >efforts. The students' reasons for taking Russian vary, with two (adult) >students having been involved in exchanges, some having friends, some >having taken it in elementary school (two), and a few because they had >"free time" and wanted to study it. I don't know how many will continue, >of course. Having 22 students in a class that stresses oral work is not >a good idea, but that's the way my university administration wants it. > Cheers to all, Emily Tall Dear SEELANGER's, I am currently working on an interactive web page that will conduct a survey into the status of Russian studies here in the Unites States. This will be part of my research. In a month or two I am planning to invite the listmembers to visit it and make their contributions. About three or four months ago we discussed this issue at lenth on the list. I am not sure if anybody offered a special questionnaire on the web for this purpose. I am planning to include the following questions: 1. Have Russian studies (classes) declined at your college (university) in recent 5 years? 2. Could you provide specific data on the decline (rise) of Russian studies (classes?) 3. What are the main reasons for the decline? - collapse of the USSR - decline of interest to Russia - no job opportunities with Russian - Russian is not a defense language any more - other There may have been a rise of interest in a particular institution, like in Emily's. I will try to include all the questions possible. I would greatly appreciate if you would help me to fomulate questions so that I could get more feedback. Once the webpage is ready I will provide you with the URL address. Your participation will be greatly appreciated. Pavel Samsonov, Texas A&M University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Sat Sep 9 02:03:55 2000 From: AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Alex Rudd) Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 22:03:55 EDT Subject: Finding addresses - (was Re: [ruslantra] Re: Novosibirsk) In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:57:37 -0500 from Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Sep 2000 12:57:37 -0500 Mila Saskova-Pierce said: >By mistake, I erased Dr. Schillinger's address. That is why I am >sending the answer to all the subscribers of SEELANG. Sorry. Mila Greetings. Rather than simply write to Mila off-list about this, I thought I'd post this here so others could benefit, too. In case you're ever trying to locate the e-mail address of a SEELANGS subscriber, a quick and easy way to do it is to search the SEELANGS membership roster. You can search by first name, last name, first name and last name, or any part of an e-mail address. The command syntax is: SCAN SEELANGS So, for example, the command: SCAN SEELANGS Schillinger would result in your being sent this: John Schillinger SCAN: One match. Or, let's say, for example, you wanted to pull up the names and e-mail addresses of all list members at American University. You could send the command: SCAN SEELANGS AMERICAN and that would get you this: Jocelyn Pace Alina Israeli John Schillinger SCAN: 3 matches. (That works because "AMERICAN" is part of the e-mail address.) By the way, for what it's worth, as this is an academic discussion list, I'm sure you all have no problem with your colleagues' being able to locate you in this manner. However, if you do, you can conceal your presence on the list by sending the command: SET SEELANGS CONCEAL Big question now is: Where do you send all these commands? There are two options. First, you can send them in the body (not the Subject line) of e-mail to: LISTSERV at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Alternatively, you can go to the web page: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ and click on "Send a Command." You can enter the command right there on the web site and get the answer instantaneously in your browser. Of course, before you can do that, or use any of the web interface functions, you'll have to assign yourself a LISTSERV password (which you only have to do once). You can do that here: http://listserv.cuny.edu/scripts/wa.exe?GETPW1 Hope that's helpful. Any questions, let me know off-list. - Alex, list owner of SEELANGS seelangs-request at listserv.cuny.edu .................................................................... Alex Rudd ahrjj at cunyvm.cuny.edu ARS KA2ZOO {Standard Disclaimer} http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bougakov at MAIL.RU Sat Sep 9 09:57:01 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 13:57:01 +0400 Subject: Pension payments In-Reply-To: <015c01c019da$8908e3c0$04b406d1@sbosmr.ma.cable.rcn.com> Message-ID: Hello Renee, Saturday, September 09, 2000, 1:18:22 AM, you wrote: RS> and even some metro kassas give them out. Really? Where have you seen this, Renee?! Cordially, Alexandre Bougakov Sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU Sat Sep 9 19:09:15 2000 From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 15:09:15 -0400 Subject: enrollments again In-Reply-To: <200009090031.UAA26485@mail2.wheatonma.edu> Message-ID: May I respectfully suggest one more choice of "answer" to Prof. Samsonov's questionnaire question #3: - Russian is taught in far fewer high schools now. (And I don't mean that no schools teach it, or teach it poorly, au contraire; but so many schools have dropped it, if they ever had it). Here at Wheaton, out of an entering class of 460, TWO, (yes, 2) students had ever studied any Russian. An excruciatingly vast majority had taken either Spanish and/or French, usually because those were the only langs offered, and I'm talking in the ostensibly intellectually progressive NorthEast (!). For years we have had to remind faculty advisors, with varying degrees of success, to not advise *automatically* the same language the student had in high school. I have absolutely nothing against French or Spanish, but I do get tired swimming against the tide every fall. -FR Francoise Rosset phone: (508) 286-3696 Department of Russian fax: (508) 286-3640 Wheaton College e-mail: frosset at wheatonma.edu Norton, Massachusetts 02766 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From myadroff at INDIANA.EDU Sun Sep 10 00:40:42 2000 From: myadroff at INDIANA.EDU (Michael Yadroff) Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 19:40:42 -0500 Subject: SLAVICA web site updated Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, these days we updated our web site again (actually we do it regularly now :) ). Please visit the home page at http://www.slavica.com and bookmark it. You can navigate easily from there. We try to keep it backward compatible, and therefore we don't use anything fancy in doing our web pages (however sometimes it's not really easy :) ). For example, I used the javascript trick to navigate through pages for Svetlana Rakic's book "Serbian Icons from Bosnia-Herzegovina" (not all the pages are ready yet). Please let us know if you have any troubles with them. Michael (Misha) Yadroff ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Lvisson at AOL.COM Sun Sep 10 15:49:52 2000 From: Lvisson at AOL.COM (Lvisson at AOL.COM) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 11:49:52 EDT Subject: Interpreters Needed Message-ID: The United Nations Interpretation Service is seeking to hire simultaneous interpreters, both on a freelance and permanent basis. Candidates must have native English and excellent passive knowledge of both Russian and French or French and Spanish. An examination will be held in January. For more information (or to recommend possible candidates), please contact me at this e-mail (lvisson at aol.com). Please do pass this notice on to your colleagues in French and Spanish departments. With thanks for your assistance, Lynn Visson Staff Interpreter English Booth] United Nations ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Sun Sep 10 13:47:27 2000 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 13:47:27 +0000 Subject: enrollments again Message-ID: Here's another reason for the decline, at least at my institution: enrollment-driven decisions, which means that if classes above first year are "two small" they can't be counted as regular offerings and have to be offered on faculty overload. But perhaps that's just here. Emily Pavel Samsonov wrote: > At 06:45 PM 9/8/00 +0000, you wrote: > >Dear colleagues: Here at SUNY Buffalo the semester has already begun > >and, would you believe, I have 22 students in my first semester class (4 > >more than last year) and this with no advertising or recruitment > >efforts. The students' reasons for taking Russian vary, with two (adult) > >students having been involved in exchanges, some having friends, some > >having taken it in elementary school (two), and a few because they had > >"free time" and wanted to study it. I don't know how many will continue, > >of course. Having 22 students in a class that stresses oral work is not > >a good idea, but that's the way my university administration wants it. > > Cheers to all, Emily Tall > > Dear SEELANGER's, > > I am currently working on an interactive web page that will conduct a > survey into the status of Russian studies here in the Unites States. This > will be part of my research. In a month or two I am planning to invite the > listmembers to visit it and make their contributions. > > About three or four months ago we discussed this issue at lenth on the > list. I am not sure if anybody offered a special questionnaire on the web > for this purpose. > > I am planning to include the following questions: > > 1. Have Russian studies (classes) declined at your college (university) in > recent 5 years? > 2. Could you provide specific data on the decline (rise) of Russian studies > (classes?) > 3. What are the main reasons for the decline? > - collapse of the USSR > - decline of interest to Russia > - no job opportunities with Russian > - Russian is not a defense language any more > - other > > There may have been a rise of interest in a particular institution, like in > Emily's. > > I will try to include all the questions possible. > I would greatly appreciate if you would help me to fomulate questions so > that I could get more feedback. > > Once the webpage is ready I will provide you with the URL address. > > Your participation will be greatly appreciated. > > Pavel Samsonov, > > Texas A&M University > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at HOME.COM Sun Sep 10 19:58:33 2000 From: ggerhart at HOME.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:58:33 -0700 Subject: enrollments again In-Reply-To: <200009101755.KAA13792@mx10-rwc.mail.home.com> Message-ID: You actually got a note from the administration referring to enrolments that were "two small"? Shows you something, don't it? Genevra Gerhart http://www.members.home.net/ggerhart New email address: ggerhart at home.com 206-329-0053 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Emily Tall Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 6:47 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: enrollments again Here's another reason for the decline, at least at my institution: enrollment-driven decisions, which means that if classes above first year are "two small" they can't be counted as regular offerings and have to be offered on faculty overload. But perhaps that's just here. Emily Pavel Samsonov wrote: > At 06:45 PM 9/8/00 +0000, you wrote: > >Dear colleagues: Here at SUNY Buffalo the semester has already begun > >and, would you believe, I have 22 students in my first semester class (4 > >more than last year) and this with no advertising or recruitment > >efforts. The students' reasons for taking Russian vary, with two (adult) > >students having been involved in exchanges, some having friends, some > >having taken it in elementary school (two), and a few because they had > >"free time" and wanted to study it. I don't know how many will continue, > >of course. Having 22 students in a class that stresses oral work is not > >a good idea, but that's the way my university administration wants it. > > Cheers to all, Emily Tall > > Dear SEELANGER's, > > I am currently working on an interactive web page that will conduct a > survey into the status of Russian studies here in the Unites States. This > will be part of my research. In a month or two I am planning to invite the > listmembers to visit it and make their contributions. > > About three or four months ago we discussed this issue at lenth on the > list. I am not sure if anybody offered a special questionnaire on the web > for this purpose. > > I am planning to include the following questions: > > 1. Have Russian studies (classes) declined at your college (university) in > recent 5 years? > 2. Could you provide specific data on the decline (rise) of Russian studies > (classes?) > 3. What are the main reasons for the decline? > - collapse of the USSR > - decline of interest to Russia > - no job opportunities with Russian > - Russian is not a defense language any more > - other > > There may have been a rise of interest in a particular institution, like in > Emily's. > > I will try to include all the questions possible. > I would greatly appreciate if you would help me to fomulate questions so > that I could get more feedback. > > Once the webpage is ready I will provide you with the URL address. > > Your participation will be greatly appreciated. > > Pavel Samsonov, > > Texas A&M University > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From koropeck at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Mon Sep 11 04:37:10 2000 From: koropeck at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Roman Koropeckyj) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 21:37:10 -0700 Subject: Slavic Mushroom Folklore Message-ID: I am looking for references and sources for Slavic folklore about mushrooms. Can anybody out there help? Roman Koropeckyj UCLA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From N.Bermel at SHEFFIELD.AC.UK Mon Sep 11 10:38:54 2000 From: N.Bermel at SHEFFIELD.AC.UK (Neil Bermel) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 11:38:54 +0100 Subject: BASEES 2001 - Language/Linguistics Message-ID: CALL FOR PAPERS - BASEES 2001 - LANGUAGE AND LINGUISTICS The annual conference of the British Association of Slavonic and East European Studies (BASEES) will be held at Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge University on 6-9 April 2001. Brief abstracts (100-200 words) are invited for 20-minute papers in any area of linguistics, language pedagogy, and translation studies as they pertain to the Slavonic languages. Last year's conference featured over twenty papers in formal linguistics, sociolinguistics, language pedagogy, and translation studies presented by staff and graduate students from UK institutions and abroad. The working languages of the conference are English and Russian. Abstracts, with full contact details should be sent by 15 October 2000 to Dr Neil Bermel at n.bermel at sheffield.ac.uk or the following address: Department of Russian and Slavonic Studies Arts Tower, Western Bank University of Sheffield Sheffield S10 2TN United Kingdom Fax: +44 (0)114 222 7416 Apologies for cross-posting of this notice. Neil Bermel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mzs at UNLSERVE.UNL.EDU Mon Sep 11 14:30:27 2000 From: mzs at UNLSERVE.UNL.EDU (Mila Saskova-Pierce) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 09:30:27 -0500 Subject: enrollments again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In Nebraska, it is the same: small classes (5 and bellow) do not count as a part of the teaching load. We, too, teach them in overload. Mila Saskova >Here's another reason for the decline, at least at my institution: >enrollment-driven decisions, which means that if classes above first year are >"two small" they can't be counted as regular offerings and have to be offered >on faculty overload. But perhaps that's just here. Emily Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce University of Nebraska 1133 Oldfather Hall, Lincoln, NE 68588-0315 Tel: (402) 472 1336 Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce University of Nebraska 1133 Oldfather Hall, Lincoln, NE 68588-0315 Tel: (402) 472 1336 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gutscheg at U.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Sep 11 14:53:24 2000 From: gutscheg at U.ARIZONA.EDU (George G) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 07:53:24 -0700 Subject: Bunin questions Message-ID: A colleague (not on the listserv) needs help identifying the following in Bunin's "Svyatye." 1. The legend of the harlot and the martyress Elena (he can't find anything like it in Lives of the Saints or tales of Christian martyrs); 2. Fekla-staritsa (whose sins were outweighed by one act of charity--giving a white handkerchief to a beggar); 3. Dar pokayannykh slez; and 4. the mythical Ptitsa Igra (white with black wings). Any help would be appreciated. George Gutsche gutscheg at u.arizona.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From N20JACK at AOL.COM Mon Sep 11 22:28:06 2000 From: N20JACK at AOL.COM (N20JACK at AOL.COM) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:28:06 EDT Subject: Russian Courses Online (fwd) Message-ID: Here's a few sites. Jack Franke, Ph. D. Associate Professor-Russian DLIFLC Monterey by the Bay http://catcode.com/rintro/ex2.htm - russian vocabulary http://russian.about.com/homework/russian/index.htm -- general Russian web site -killer! http://russian.about.com/homework/russian/library/everyday/blday_cardinal.htm -- Russian numbers 1 -1,000,000 ! http://russian.about.com/homework/russian/library/blsigns.htm -- Russian signs.... http://russian.about.com/homework/russian/library/lessons/bl3.htm -- colors http://www.avalon.net/~emelya/PuzzleFun.html -- Russian crossword puzzles http://www.auburn.edu/~mitrege/RWT/exercises/index.html -- Russian Grammar ( has reading there too) http://russian.about.com/homework/russian/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?site=http%3A% 2F%2Fwww.funet.fi%2Fpub%2Fculture%2Frussian%2Fhtml_pages%2Flanguage%2Flesson1% 2Frusalf.html -- Russian Alphabet ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brifkin at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Tue Sep 12 17:58:13 2000 From: brifkin at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:58:13 -0500 Subject: Anna Lawton Message-ID: I'm trying to track down Anna Lawton. Does anyone have an e-mail address for her? Thanks for your reply off-list. - Ben Rifkin -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Benjamin Rifkin Associate Professor, Slavic Dept., UW-Madison 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Drive Madison, WI 53706 USA voice: (608) 262-1623; fax: (608) 265-2814 Director, Russian School, Middlebury College Freeman International Center Middlebury, VT 05753 USA voice: (802) 443-5533; fax: (802) 443-5394 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenalev at IX.NETCOM.COM Tue Sep 12 19:04:19 2000 From: elenalev at IX.NETCOM.COM (Elena Levintova) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 12:04:19 -0700 Subject: Russian teachers in Italy (ISO Lidia Kalamanova) Message-ID: I am trying to track down Lidia Kalamanova. She taught Russian somewhere in Verona about 10 years ago. I would also appreciate some help in contacting any professional organizations for teachers of Russian / Russian translators in Italy. Thanks for your reply off-list. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Cashner at ACTR.ORG Tue Sep 12 21:13:04 2000 From: Cashner at ACTR.ORG (Catharine Cashner) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 17:13:04 -0400 Subject: RFP-Citizenship Education Program Message-ID: REQUEST FOR PROPOSALS: Citizenship Education Internship The American Councils invites proposals from U.S. school systems, universities, secondary school teachers, international visitor boards, and other educational organizations to develop and host a five-week citizenship education internship program for NIS educators in the spring of 2001. The Partners in Education Program (PiE) supports democracy-building efforts in the NIS by providing secondary school teachers and school administrators with the opportunity to collaborate with U.S. colleagues in the field of citizenship education. PiE is administered and organized by the American Councils for International Education: ACTR/ACCELS with funding from The Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs of the United States Department of State Office of Global Educational Programs, Teacher Exchange Branch. If your institution or school district would be interested in participating, please contact Cheryl Giammusso by November 1, 2000 at: American Councils for International Education: ACTR/ACCELS, 1776 Massachusetts Ave., NW, Suite 700, Washington, DC 20036. Phone: (202) 833-7522 / Fax: (202) 833-7523/ giammusso at actr.org. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Wed Sep 13 13:41:28 2000 From: jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Jolanta M. Davis) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 09:41:28 -0400 Subject: search engines in SEEL In-Reply-To: <8e.a619426.26eeb676@aol.com> Message-ID: I am looking for good search engines in Slavic & East European Languages (i.e. Russian, Ukrainian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Czech, Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Slovene, Serbo-Croatian, Macedonian, and Albanian, and any other that I missed) I am looking for something like the Polish www.onet.pl or the American www.yahoo.com where I can type in a phrase and find web sites related to that issue/topic. thanks Jolanta Jolanta M. Davis Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS) 8 Story Street Cambridge, MA 02138, USA tel.: (617) 495-0679 fax: (617) 495-0680 http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From d-powelstock at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Sep 13 15:44:43 2000 From: d-powelstock at UCHICAGO.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 10:44:43 -0500 Subject: search engines in SEEL (Russian) In-Reply-To: <4.2.2.20000913093029.00a9cba0@imap.fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: The Russian engine I use most is www.yandex.ru, which I find to be remarkably good, better than most English-language engines. Cheers, dp -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Jolanta M. Davis Sent: Wednesday, 13 September 2000 8:41 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: search engines in SEEL I am looking for good search engines in Slavic & East European Languages (i.e. Russian, Ukrainian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Czech, Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Slovene, Serbo-Croatian, Macedonian, and Albanian, and any other that I missed) I am looking for something like the Polish www.onet.pl or the American www.yahoo.com where I can type in a phrase and find web sites related to that issue/topic. thanks Jolanta Jolanta M. Davis Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS) 8 Story Street Cambridge, MA 02138, USA tel.: (617) 495-0679 fax: (617) 495-0680 http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aniekrasz at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Sep 13 17:38:29 2000 From: aniekrasz at HOTMAIL.COM (andrzej niekrasz) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:38:29 GMT Subject: search engines in SEEL Message-ID: a good Slovene search enigine is www.sis.si try also www.matkurja.com (though this one doesn't seem as thorough) good luck! andrzej niekrasz _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lschultz at IX.NETCOM.COM Thu Sep 14 06:25:11 2000 From: lschultz at IX.NETCOM.COM (lschultz) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 23:25:11 -0700 Subject: Search engines in SEEL Message-ID: Dear Jolanta, The University of Illinois Slavic Reference Service home page lists all kinds of electronic resources for slavists, search engines among them: http://www.library.uiuc.edu/spx/ Click on electronic resources, and scroll down to resources by subject and click on "Search Engines." Happy hunting! Laurel Schultz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aehruska at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU Wed Sep 13 19:24:09 2000 From: aehruska at SOCRATES.BERKELEY.EDU (Anne Hruska) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 12:24:09 -0700 Subject: AAASS accomodations Message-ID: Dear all, Is there a female graduate student going to AAASS that would be interested in sharing a room with me? Let me know, if so. Remember to answer off-list. Yours, Anne ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sher07 at BELLSOUTH.NET Wed Sep 13 19:52:27 2000 From: sher07 at BELLSOUTH.NET (Benjamin Sher) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 14:52:27 -0500 Subject: search engines in SEEL Message-ID: Dear Jolanta: Please take a look at the list of search engines in my Russian Index under The Basics: Search -- General and Web Portals The Index address is: http://www.websher.net/inx/link.html Specifically, the address for The Basics is: http://www.websher.net/inx/AB_--_THE_BASICS/index.html Yours, Benjamin -- Benjamin and Anna Sher RUS http://www.websher.net SHK http://www.shakespeareindex.net Email: sher07 at bellsouth.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From esjogren at NC.RR.COM Wed Sep 13 17:50:19 2000 From: esjogren at NC.RR.COM (Ernie Sjogren) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 17:50:19 -0000 Subject: search engines in SEEL Message-ID: Hi, Ms. Davis, There are quite a few search services listed here: http://www.list.ru/catalog/10129.html . (In general www.list.ru is a fascinating site.) I hope this helps. Ernie Sjogren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jolanta M. Davis" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2000 1:41 PM Subject: search engines in SEEL > I am looking for good search engines in Slavic & East European Languages > (i.e. Russian, Ukrainian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Czech, Slovak, > Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Slovene, Serbo-Croatian, Macedonian, and > Albanian, and any other that I missed) > I am looking for something like the Polish www.onet.pl or the American > www.yahoo.com where I can type in a phrase and find web sites related to > that issue/topic. > thanks > Jolanta > Jolanta M. Davis > Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor > American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS) > 8 Story Street > Cambridge, MA 02138, USA > tel.: (617) 495-0679 > fax: (617) 495-0680 > http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From prokhorv+ at PITT.EDU Wed Sep 13 20:55:56 2000 From: prokhorv+ at PITT.EDU (Aleksandr Prokhorov) Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2000 16:55:56 -0400 Subject: Marina Palei Message-ID: I'm trying to track down Marina Palei's email or phone #. Does anyone have an e-mail address for her or her phone#? Thanks for your reply off-list. Sasha Prokhorov >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> University of Pittsburgh sprokhorov at fcas.pitt.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Thu Sep 14 11:40:19 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:40:19 +0100 Subject: Fw: search engines for Estonia Message-ID: ---------- From: Sampo Ruoppila Subject: Re: Fw: search engines in SEEL (Russian) Date: 14 September 2000 12:39 Estonian search engines: http://www.ee/www/ http://www.neti.ee/ I have preferred the first one. Best wishes, Sampo Ruoppila University of Helsinki, Finland ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fjm6 at COLUMBIA.EDU Thu Sep 14 14:13:18 2000 From: fjm6 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Frank J. Miller) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:13:18 -0400 Subject: Job Announcements Message-ID: LECTURER IN RUSSIAN FOR 2001-2002 Full-time Lecturer in Russian Language. Must have native or near-native proficiency in both English and Russian and experience in teaching Russian to Americans at various levels. Candidates should also have the M.A. degree or higher. Interviews at AATSEEL Convention in Washington D.C. Send c.v. and three letters of recommendation to Professor Frank Miller, Columbia University, Department of Slavic Languages, 708 Hamilton Hall, New York, N.Y. 10027. MC2839 Deadline: December 1, 2000. AA/EOE. Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. LECTURER IN CZECH FOR 2001-2002 Full-time Lecturer in Czech Language and Literature. Candidates must be able to teach both undergraduate and graduate courses. Ph.D., and native or near-native command of both Czech and English required. Send c.v. and three letters of recommendation to: Professor Robert A. Maguire, Chair, Columbia University, Department of Slavic Languages, New York, N.Y. 10027. MC2839 Deadline: December 1, 2000. AA/EOE. Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From renee at ALINGA.COM Thu Sep 14 14:37:48 2000 From: renee at ALINGA.COM (Renee Stillings) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 10:37:48 -0400 Subject: for database Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank J. Miller" Professor Frank Miller, > Columbia University, Department of Slavic Languages, 708 Hamilton Hall, New > York, N.Y. 10027. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From clogan at ITOL.COM Thu Sep 14 16:55:00 2000 From: clogan at ITOL.COM (carol logan) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:55:00 -0400 Subject: Rise of right-wing/neo-nazi parties Message-ID: Does anyone know of a person and/or organization that is tracking the rise of right-wing and/or neo-Nazi parties in Eastern and Western Europe and the FSU? Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brifkin at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Thu Sep 14 17:21:09 2000 From: brifkin at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 12:21:09 -0500 Subject: Riley and Robblee Message-ID: I am trying to find e-mail or other contact information for Timothy Riley and Karen Robblee. If anyone knows where / how I can find them, please contact me off list. Thank you! Ben Rifkin -- ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Benjamin Rifkin Associate Professor, Slavic Dept., UW-Madison 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Drive Madison, WI 53706 USA voice: (608) 262-1623; fax: (608) 265-2814 Director, Russian School, Middlebury College Freeman International Center Middlebury, VT 05753 USA voice: (802) 443-5533; fax: (802) 443-5394 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM Thu Sep 14 23:38:28 2000 From: AATSEEL at COMPUSERVE.COM (Jerry Ervin) Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2000 19:38:28 -0400 Subject: McGraw-Hill teleconference (free) Message-ID: NOTE: THIS IS A CROSS-POSTING. PLEASE DIRECT ALL QUESTIONS TO THE ORIGINATOR OF THE MESSAGE (SEE BODY); DO NOT USE THE "REPLY" FUNCTION. THANKS. > Announcing the 6th Annual > McGraw-Hill > Satellite Teleconference > > The Internet and Foreign/Second > Language Instruction > October 25, 2000 > > > How can one successfully integrate the Internet in the foreign/second > language classroom? What are the benefits to instructors and learners? > What are the limitations? What Internet capabilities are best suited for > traditional classroom integration? For Distance Learning programs? By > using an interactive satellite teleconference forum and incorporating > classroom footage, our panel of respected scholars and instructors will > address these issues along with questions sent in by viewers via > telephone, fax, and e-mail. > > > > The Sixth Annual McGraw-Hill Satellite Teleconference > on Topics in Second Language Acquisition > > The Internet and Foreign/Second Language Instruction > > Wednesday, October 25, 2000 > 3 - 5 PM (Eastern Time) > 2 - 4 PM (Central Time) > 1 - 3 PM (Mountain Time) > 12 - 2 PM (Pacific Time) > > Moderator: > Gerard L. Ervin, Associate Professor Emeritus of Russian > Ohio State University > > Panel: > Dan Bayer, Executive Director of the USC Language Center > University of Southern California > > Michael Bush, Associate Professor of French and > Instructional Psychology and Technology > Brigham Young University > > Dorothy Chun, Associate Professor of German > University of California at Santa Barbara > > Robert Fischer, Chair and Professor of French > Southwest Texas State and Executive Director of CALICO > > Barbara Lafford, Associate Professor of Spanish and Linguistics > Arizona State University > > Diane Musumeci, Associate Professor of Italian and SLATE > University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign > > M. Victoria Gonzalez Pagani, SOE Lecturer in Spanish > University of California at Santa Cruz > > > __ Yes! I want to register for the 2000 McGraw-Hill Satellite > Teleconference on The Internet and Foreign/Second Language Instruction > > > > Name: > School: > Department: > Address: > City/State/Zip: > Downlink Contact: > Phone: > E-Mail: > > Please send your response to: > Marketing Department > McGraw-Hill World Languages > 55 Francisco St. #200 > San Francisco, CA 94133 > or e-mail: languages at mcgraw-hill.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Fri Sep 15 10:26:02 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 11:26:02 +0100 Subject: Fw: Lithuanian search engines Message-ID: ---------- From: jurate_stanaityte at fc.vdu.lt To: east-west-research at mailbase.ac.uk; russian-studies at mailbase.ac.uk; a.jameson at dial.pipex.com Subject: Re: search engines in SEEL Date: 14 September 2000 12:01 Lithuanian search engines: http://infoseek.ktu.lt http://www.search.lt http://www.on.lt Regards, Jurate Stanaityte Vytautas Magnus University Kaunas ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From esther.vanloo at FONTANKA.NL Fri Sep 15 20:01:08 2000 From: esther.vanloo at FONTANKA.NL (Esther van Loo) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 22:01:08 +0200 Subject: No subject Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, This is to let you know, that now you have the chance to spent your weekend, week or fortnight in Moscow in a 3 rooms, 90 m2 appartment with view to the stary arbat from the 2nd floor. With open windows you'll hear the Russian live music and feel Russian life ! Something completely different from the exorbitantly priced western-style hotels in Moscow ! There is place for 4 and everything you need. We have this appartment available, but are not all the time there and want to share the pleasure with fellow seelangers. If you are interested to learn more, please contact: esther.vanloo at fontanka.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From m-greenberg at UKANS.EDU Fri Sep 15 20:34:22 2000 From: m-greenberg at UKANS.EDU (Marc L. Greenberg) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2000 15:34:22 -0500 Subject: Polish language and literature position In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 2061 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gladney at UX6.CSO.UIUC.EDU Sat Sep 16 17:40:20 2000 From: gladney at UX6.CSO.UIUC.EDU (gladney frank y) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 12:40:20 -0500 Subject: Polish course on Web Message-ID: Anyone who might be interested is welcome to look in on what we're doing this semester in elementary Polish. http://courseinfo.cet.uiuc.edu/ log in as gosc ('guest' without the accents) and give gost as your password. Please don't change the password as directed, since that will lock out other guests. The lessons are under Course Material, but see also Documents. Comments welcome. Frank Y. Gladney gladney at uiuc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Sep 17 03:39:17 2000 From: a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM (Alexander Stratienko) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 03:39:17 GMT Subject: Polish course on Web Message-ID: Are there any Polish-Polish dictionaries in the WEB (downloadable or online)? Alexander Stratienko _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Sat Sep 16 12:15:35 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 13:15:35 +0100 Subject: A Shortcut to Cyrillic Classroom Texts Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The following assumes that you've Cyrillicised your PC and are running a version of Windows. If you would like a file on Cyrillicising Windows on a PC, drop me a line. Ever wanted to build up a collection of Cyrillic texts in your word- processor for use as student handouts etc.? Have you been put off by the thought of typing it all in on your English keyboard covered with stickers? Or wondered if a scanner could deal with Cyrillic? Go on the Web to www.yandex.ru (a russian search engine). Let's say that you are looking for some poems by Blok. Type Blok (in Cyrillic) in the search box and click start search. You will find several sites which offer Blok's poems, listed by title, well formatted, with notes, portraits and other goodies. Get the desired poem on screen and use your mouse to highlight the text (click and drag). Dvenadtsat' scrolls very slowly but you'll get there in the end. Drop down the File menu and click on "Save As". You will be offered "Save As Type: HTML file". You do not want this, so, click the arrow at the end of the box, drop down the other choice "Save As text file" and click this. Place this in My Documents in your chosen folder. You can give it a name in the Roman alphabet, no problem. (If you give it a Cyrillic name, this will appear as gobbledygook most of the time, which is not much help.) Disconnect from the Web, if that is relevant, and open Word. My version is Word 7 for W95 taken from Microsoft Office and it works just fine with Cyrillic. Later versions vary, I'm told. Click on File, Open. You need to specify All Files to see your Cyrillic text file, don't forget. Open this - and then use Save As again this time clicking on save as Word.doc. The name can stay the same. You now have the Cyrillic text in your word processor as a Word document and can call it up, modify, annotate, print as you wish. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From K.R.Hauge at EAST.UIO.NO Sun Sep 17 12:31:02 2000 From: K.R.Hauge at EAST.UIO.NO (Kjetil =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E5?= Hauge) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 14:31:02 +0200 Subject: A Shortcut to Cyrillic Classroom Texts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 13:15 +0100 16-09-00, Andrew Jameson wrote: [instructions for saving Cyrillic web pages as text files] It will usually be quicker just to copy the selection in the web browser and paste it into Word. If you use Explorer, much of the formatting (font sizes, baold, italics) will be retained - at least on the Macintosh platform, and I would suppose under Windows as well. With copying and pasting, Mac users will also have the advantage that the text will automatically be converted from Windows-1251, KOI-8 or whatever to Apple Cyrillic (regardless which browser). -- -- Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo. Phone +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140 -- (this msg sent from home, ph. +47/67148424, +47/67149745 -- fax +1/5084372444 [eFax, U.S. number]) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gladney at UX6.CSO.UIUC.EDU Sun Sep 17 18:09:51 2000 From: gladney at UX6.CSO.UIUC.EDU (gladney frank y) Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 13:09:51 -0500 Subject: Polish course on Web--correction Message-ID: My apologies to those who were interesed in Polish 101 at the University of Illinois and who tried http://courseinfo.cet.uiuc.edu then logged in as gosc and used *gost* as the password and were refused entry. The correct password is gosc. Please excuse my careless typing. Frank Y. Gladney ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gpirog at RCI.RUTGERS.EDU Mon Sep 18 20:11:24 2000 From: gpirog at RCI.RUTGERS.EDU (Gerald Pirog) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 16:11:24 -0400 Subject: Dictionary with IPA pronunciation guide Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Is anyone aware of a Russian dictionary with IPA pronunciation guidelines for individual words. A query came to me from someone who has trouble hearing and would like to "see" what a Russian word sounds like. Thank you very much. Gerald Pirog Rutgers University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Sep 19 03:47:28 2000 From: a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM (Alex) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:47:28 +0400 Subject: Russian Courses Online (fwd) Message-ID: > http://russian.about.com/homework/russian/index.htm -- general Russian web > site -killer! The site is really great. I surfed it and... it has got grammatical mistakes... :( (dictionaries links) So be careful! Don't trust everything you see. Alexander Stratienko ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Wambah at AOL.COM Tue Sep 19 13:46:34 2000 From: Wambah at AOL.COM (Wambah at AOL.COM) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:46:34 EDT Subject: Farewell to Matyora Message-ID: Would anyone know where a subtitled version of "Farewell to Matyora" can be purchased? I would be grateful for any leads. Laura Kline Lecturer in Russian Wayne State University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dchiasson at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM Tue Sep 19 09:26:04 2000 From: dchiasson at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM (dchiasson at MERRIAM-WEBSTER.COM) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 09:26:04 +0000 Subject: Goldilocks Message-ID: I'm looking for the rendering of "Goldilocks" (of "Three Bears" fame) in Russian -- as in the Tolstoi version of the story, for example. Please reply off-list. Deanna Chiasson Deanna Chiasson Editorial Department Merriam-Webster, Inc. 47 Federal St. P.O. Box 281 Springfield MA 01102 Phone: 413-734-3134 E-mail dchiasson at Merriam-Webster.com Visit us online at http://www.Merriam-Webster.com http://www.WordCentral.com for kids ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Tue Sep 19 16:35:05 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:35:05 -0400 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, Today we may be witnessing the end of the freedom of the press in Russia. Russian public opinion in this matter is on the side of the government simply because it always has been on the side of the government and because Russians philosophically hate rich people. The only thing that may still have an effect is the Western public opinion. Please think about it. Alina Israeli ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Tue Sep 19 18:40:13 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 13:40:13 -0500 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alina Israeli" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 11:35 AM Subject: freedom of the press > Dear Seelangers, > > Today we may be witnessing the end of the freedom of the press in Russia. > Russian public opinion in this matter is on the side of the government > simply because it always has been on the side of the government and because > Russians philosophically hate rich people. This is a very true observation. > > The only thing that may still have an effect is the Western public opinion. > Please think about it. > > Alina Israeli Yes, and that is why anti-Western rhetorics can be heard everywhere. "Kursk" was sunk by a NATO submarine, "NTV" is a channel of propaganda of "alien values", etc. I watch ORT's news quite regularly and its style is becoming very similar to that of the good old days of Brezhnevism. The same division of the world into good and bad guys, the same Komsomol-like firm confidence that ORT possesses the patent of the truth. If NTV goes out of business it would probably mean the end of the "Glasnost" era in Russia. Pavel Texas A&M University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From langston at ARCHES.UGA.EDU Tue Sep 19 22:10:03 2000 From: langston at ARCHES.UGA.EDU (Keith Langston) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:10:03 -0700 Subject: job announcement Message-ID: The University of Georgia invites applications for the position of Assistant Professor of Russian, tenure-track, beginning Fall 2001. Requirements: Ph.D. by May 2001, native or near-native proficiency in Russian and English, evidence of successful teaching and research. Areas of specialization: 20th-century Russian literature, film, culture. Responsibilities include teaching four courses per year in language, literature and culture at all levels, both in Russian and in English. Ability to teach a second Slavic language and culture (preferably Polish or Czech) is strongly desired. Send letter of application, curriculum vitae, and three letters of recommendation to Prof. Keith Langston, Chair of Slavic Search Committee, University of Georgia, Dept. of Germanic and Slavic Languages, 201 Joe Brown Hall, Athens, GA 30602. Applications received by November 15 will be assured of consideration. Interviews will be held at MLA. Applications from minorities and women are especially encouraged. The University of Georgia is an AA/EOE institution. http://www.uga.edu/~gslangs ****************************** Keith Langston University of Georgia Germanic and Slavic Languages Athens, GA 30602 phone (706) 542-2448 fax (706) 583-0349 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Tue Sep 19 15:26:05 2000 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:26:05 +0000 Subject: freedom of press Message-ID: I share Alina's and Pavel's sentiments. Emily Tall ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Tue Sep 19 15:26:50 2000 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:26:50 +0000 Subject: query Message-ID: How do you say "Bosnian" in Russian? Bosniets? I have one in my class...Thanks! Emily Tall ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at HOME.COM Tue Sep 19 19:49:44 2000 From: asred at HOME.COM (Steve Marder) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:49:44 -0400 Subject: query Message-ID: > How do you say "Bosnian" in Russian? Bosniets? I have one in my > class...Thanks! Emily Tall Yes. "Bosniets," "bosniyka." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Tue Sep 19 20:59:17 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 15:59:17 -0500 Subject: query Message-ID: > How do you say "Bosnian" in Russian? Bosniets? Correct. Bosniets- Bosnijka-Bosnijtsy. Pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM Tue Sep 19 21:53:35 2000 From: kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM (richard tomback) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 17:53:35 -0400 Subject: regarding old church slavic,etc. Message-ID: Would any member know where I could obtain the following books a] Daichenko-Dictionary of Staroslaviansii yaziik b] Slovo o Polko Igorove in the old cyrillic script Thanks, Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sher07 at BELLSOUTH.NET Tue Sep 19 23:47:37 2000 From: sher07 at BELLSOUTH.NET (Benjamin Sher) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 18:47:37 -0500 Subject: Search engines and web portals moved! Message-ID: Dear friends: Just want to let everybody know that all the search engines and web portals on my Russian Index have been moved from "The Basics" category where they used to be to "Megasites", which is where I believe they more rightly belong. Nothing has been deleted. Just moved. Thanks so much. Benjamin -- Benjamin and Anna Sher Sher's Russian Web http://www.websher.net sher07 at bellsouth.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Wed Sep 20 01:26:18 2000 From: dumanis at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 21:26:18 -0400 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: <007c01c02269$0c3738f0$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Sep 2000, Pavel Samsonov wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alina Israeli" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 11:35 AM > Subject: freedom of the press > > > > Dear Seelangers, > > > > Today we may be witnessing the end of the freedom of the press in Russia. > > Russian public opinion in this matter is on the side of the government > > simply because it always has been on the side of the government and > because > > Russians philosophically hate rich people. > > This is a very true observation. ............... snip ............... > > Pavel > > Texas A&M University It reminds me a story that I heard long time ago about an old lady who was a Decembrist's granddaughter. I'll try to retell it now for those who are not familiar with it. It was during the February revolution of 1917. The lady, hearing a lot of noise from a large demonstration passing her house in Petrograd, asks her maid to find out what's happening. The maid comes back shortly, -Revolution. The Tsar has abdicated. -Oh, heaven, my grandpa so deeply wanted it. Please, go and find out what they want. The maid comes back and says, -They want to have nobody rich in Russia anymore. -That's strange. My grandpa wanted to have nobody poor in Russia. Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ludwig1 at UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU Wed Sep 20 03:05:24 2000 From: ludwig1 at UX1.CSO.UIUC.EDU (ludwig jonathan) Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 22:05:24 -0500 Subject: Job announcement In-Reply-To: Message-ID: University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign Associate or Full Professor Department of Slavic Languages and Literature Program in Comparative Literature The Department of Slavic Languages and Literature and the Program in Comparative Literature seek to make a senior appointment to provide dynamic and innovative leadership in the development of these areas. The ideal candidate will be excellent in both teaching and research. We will consider candidates in any area of Slavic literary and cultural studies. Expertise in interdisciplinary and theoretical approaches to culture is expected, as well as the ability to teach in English and Russian. Teaching responsibility will include undergraduate courses in general and world literature, as well as both Russian and Slavic literatures and graduate courses in Slavic and comparative literatures. The successful candidate will also join a vibrant community of scholars associated with the Russian and East European Center and the Slavic and East European Library. Salary competitive. Ph.D. required. Advanced Assistant Professors will also be considered. Appointment is expected to begin August 21, 2001. To ensure full consideration, nominations and applications should be received by November 1, 2000. However, applications will be accepted until the position is filled. Applicants should submit a letter of application, curriculum vitae, samples of scholarly work, and evidence of teaching effectiveness to the following address. Applicants also should have three letters of recommendation sent directly to: Professor Nancy Blake, Search Committee Chair, College of Liberal Arts and Sciences, 294 Lincoln Hall, 702 S. Wright Street, Urbana, IL 61801. Telephone: (217) 244-2708. Fax: (217) 333-9142. E-mail: n-blake at uiuc.edu The University of Illinois is an Affirmative Action, Equal Opportunity Employer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Wed Sep 20 03:13:48 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:13:48 +0900 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: (message from Alina Israeli on Tue, 19 Sep 2000 12:35:05 -0400) Message-ID: Dear Alina, Although Putin has stifled mass media a bit, but saying >>Today we may be witnessing the end of the freedom of the press in Russia. is too much of an emotinal exaggeration. Look at other Eastern bloc countries, particularly those that were part of the Soviet Union. Russia is still one of the freest counties of them all. >>Russian public opinion in this matter is on the side of the government >>simply because it always has been on the side of the government and because >>Russians philosophically hate rich people. Russians love rich people, but not those who show off their possesions, but those who are rich in non-material values, such as scholarship, arts, good manners, etc. Since the majority of the Russians have been very poor for hundred of years, they love those who would understand and sympathize them and hate those who look down upon them (A perfectly respectable young scholar from Russia may be taken for a prostitute, or a beggar at best in the West. Stories like this abound.) I don't think Putin is determined to save the poor, but thanks to the budget surplus he is going to raise the salary of the state employees and the pensions substantially. The West may object to this, saying it will cause hyperinflation and try to snatch money back to IMF etc., no one knows what will really happen, but Putin appears to the public a good guy. On the other hand, Berezovskij, having stranded somewhere in Europe due to a breakdown of his personal jet plane, can hardly gain public support for his campaign for the freedom of the press even if he tries to pass his control over NTV to a group of intelligentsia. Nobody trusts a person who everyone thinks has robbed the country. >>The only thing that may still have an effect is the Western public opinion. >>Please think about it. I very well remember how Jablinskij failed in the last election: firstly, it was reported that he was popular in the West (that was devastating to his image). Secondly, he began developing a large scale election campaign in the TV and particularly in the streets at every way out of the underground station. People wondered, where does all this extraordinary money come from? No wonder Jablinskij was seen as buying votes. (It was very risky that US supplied so much money to El'cin in the presidential campaign. Lucky he was that the fact never got out in bad timing.) The most important factor in Russia is patience. Do not jump to any measure that they say will solve the problem. Only the time can. Cheers, Tsuji ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gieseld at UNI-MUENSTER.DE Wed Sep 20 08:58:08 2000 From: gieseld at UNI-MUENSTER.DE (Dorothea Gieselmann) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 09:58:08 +0100 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: The German paper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung quoted this Russian joke: Why did the Ostankino television tower burn? Due to a collision with a foreign TV tower... Dorothy ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Wed Sep 20 12:42:35 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:42:35 -0400 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: >The German paper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung quoted this Russian joke: > >Why did the Ostankino television tower burn? >Due to a collision with a foreign TV tower... > >Dorothy > The second half of the joke is as follows: -What took them so long to put out the fire? -They were waiting for the Norwegian "verxolazy". >The maid comes back and says, >-They want to have nobody rich in Russia anymore. >-That's strange. My grandpa wanted to have nobody poor in Russia. Makes for a great joke but hardly was true, the Decembrists were not populists. However, these two lines well sum up some of the differences between the Russians and the Americans: Russians constantly discuss (in the official places) what to do with the rich, while Americans constatnly discuss (welfare reform) what to do with the poor. > On the other hand, Berezovskij, having stranded somewhere in Europe >due to a breakdown of his personal jet plane, can hardly gain public support He is in Washington DC to my knowledge and appeared in a few public places, such as Georgetown University and FreedomForum. >Jablinskij Javlinskij. B sound in "Jabloko" comes from Boldyrev. AI ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bougakov at MAIL.RU Wed Sep 20 12:48:53 2000 From: bougakov at MAIL.RU (Alexandre Bougakov) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:48:53 +0400 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, Alina, Tuesday, September 19, 2000, 8:35:05 PM, you wrote: AI> Today we may be witnessing the end of the freedom of the press in AI> Russia. Very interesting. Let me describe my point of view - I am living in Moscow and I think, my opinion can be interesting. You can agree with it or not. Please read the following quote: > "Nam veljat verit'.., chto... tak nazyvaemaja pressa est' vyrazhenie > obschestvennogo mnenija... Kto zhe predstaviteli etoj strashnoj > vlasti, imeujuschej sebja obschestvennym mneniem? Kto dal im pravo i > polnomochie - vo imja zelogo obschestva - pravit', nisprovergat' > suschestvujuschie uchrezhdenija, vystavljat' novye idealy > nravstvennogo i polozhitel'nogo mnenija?.. > V etom javlenii "...my raspoznaem odno iz bezobraznejshih > logicheskih protivorechij novejshej kul'tury... imenno tam, gde > trebuetsja dlja kazhdogo uchrezhdenija sankcija vybora, > AVTORITET VSENARODNOJ VOLI, GDE PRAVLENIE SOSREDOTOCHIVAETSJA > V RUKAH LIZ, OPIRAJUSCHIHSJA NA MNENIE BOL'SHINSTVA V SOBRANII > PREDSTAVITELEJ NARODNYH. OT ODNOGO TOL'KO ZHURNALISTA, VLAST' KOEGO > NA VSE PROSTIRAETSJA, - NE TREBUETSJA NIKAKOJ SANKCII. NIKTO EGO NE > VYBIRAET I NE UTVERZHDAET... Pervyj vstrechnyj mozhet stat' > organom etoj vlasti.., - i pritom vpolne bezotvetstvennym, kak > nikakaja inaja vlast' v mire...". This is the thought of K. P. Pobedonoscev - written about century ago I hope, it isn't necessary to remind, what happened with the Russian press, which was so enthusiastic when it was fomenting the mass hysteria in 1916 one year after.. There were (and there are, as the tragedy with the submarine showed) not enough people with the responsibility - criticizing and making the soap opera from tragic event is much easier. I think that the independent press, as well as other normal democratic institutions - effective juridicial system, parliament, minicipal government ARE ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. But the problem is that only 5% of Russian mass media are "zhurnalisty" and other 95% - "zhurnaljugi". And it is very sad. Only few newspapers okupajutsia (Sorry, I failed to translate it. Maybe "pay off" - I am not sure). But they exist, they work! How can this be?!!! Newspapers and TV channels became parts of large holdings owned by 'oligarchs' - and they were the soldiers of the 'information wars'. In the same time they were talking that they express the will of the people. Funny, isn't it? I remember the story when one oil company planned to create its own newspaper but changed its plans later. It has hired many journalists, payed for the building etc. Nothing was published - even single page - but they were paying huge money for the staff about one year - for nothing! - until they 'have decided, that the project is not necessary' and have dismissed the staff. They have spent millions of $$$ - but the aim of this was not to create independent media, but another weapon for the 'information war'. If you mean NTV by saying that you are "witnessing the end of the freedom of the press in Russia" - here is another example. Maybe you do remember the presidential elections in Russia in the 1996? NTV was supporting Yavlinsky and was flirting with communists, then something happened and the channel has changed its position to 180 degrees (in two weeks! they were saying absolutely different things two weeks after!). After the inauguration of the President Yeltsin NTV got the whole 4th channel (it had only about 12 hours on this channel before) and 50% discount from the sandard broadcasting tariff, credits from the government-owned Vneshekonombank and Gazprom (which are still not returned). Need other examples of 'independence'? There are lots of. And let me remind that 'N' in 'NTV' means 'Nezavisimoe'.... If you think that Russia is unique - read Mark Twain's 'Journalism in Tenessee' and 'How I was elected to governor' (sorry, I do not know the exact English titles of both novells - I have read them in translation to Russian). I am terribly tired of the people, who tell me that I should think that, what their channel/newspaper says. It does not matter is it private or state channel. I am terribly tired of the people, who aren't ready for something else than hysteria. I am terribly tired of the fact that there are only few people with the feeling of responsibility - those, who are ready to work hard to make their home, street, city and country better, and not crying, that "things are so bad!" I need really free press, not a waxwork of it, normally working state institutions, normal open economy and democracy. And that is why I voted for the current president. This was my choice. The choice I made and the choice for which I am responsible. If Gusinky, the owner of NTV, will lose his channel (by the way, he will get $400 Million for it) - I will not regret about it. He is the dinosaur of the Yeltsin's epoch - and this epoch is over. AI> Russian public opinion in this matter is on the side of the government AI> simply because it always has been on the side of the government and because AI> Russians philosophically hate rich people. "In God we trust. All others must bring data." I am sociologist, and I hope, not bad sociologist. Can you prove the fact that "Russians philosophically hate rich people"? Can you show me the results of the researches, that show, that such social values have significant importance. Or you can not? 'Dlya krasnogo slovtsa...' AI> The only thing that may still have an effect is the Western public opinion. Yes, it is very important. But why 'only'? You forgot about the Russian public opinion. Please read http://www.russ.ru/politics/articles/20000624_gpavl.html. G.Pavlovsky has expressed the ideas I share much better than I can. The article was written in August, but it is still very fresh and interesting. Cordially, Alexandre Bougakov Sociological faculty of the Higher School of Economics (http://www.hse.ru/fakultet/sociology/default.html), Moscow, Russian Federation My PGP key ID is 0x97F20C99, Key Fingerprint is C83C 5998 F43A BEB7 70DF B8FC CC5E 960E 97F2 0C99 (PGP version is 6.0.2i) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Wed Sep 20 13:24:52 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 14:24:52 +0100 Subject: Fw: Fw: search engines in SEEL Message-ID: Try the Directory of Internet Resources on Central and Eastern Europe and Russia at the School of Slavonic and East European Studies, University College, London: http://www.ssees.ac.uk On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, E.L. Easton wrote: > At 04:12 PM 9/13/00 +0100, you wrote: > >I am looking for good search engines in Slavic & East European Languages > (i.e. Russian, Ukrainian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Estonian, Czech, Slovak, > Hungarian, Romanian, Bulgarian, Slovene, Serbo-Croatian, Macedonian, and > Albanian, and any other that I missed) > ----------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Wed Sep 20 14:49:40 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 10:49:40 -0400 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: >This is the thought of K. P. Pobedonoscev - written about century ago Which means that "etogo ne budet, potomu chto etogo ne budet nikogda". Sad. >Newspapers and TV channels became parts of large holdings owned by >'oligarchs' - and they were the soldiers of the 'information wars'. >In the same time they were talking that they express the will of the >people. Funny, isn't it? You are confusing speech with paying the bills. Somebody has to pay for launching satelites, printing presses and the distribution. It could be a government (BBC) or a person (Murdoch). The question is: do they control what their employees are saying? >And let me remind that 'N' in 'NTV' means 'Nezavisimoe'.... That is the President does not control what the journalists or even jurnaljugi are saying (Tony Blair would get into trouble if he starts controling BBC). Unlike Channel 1 which has been declared "prezidentskij kanal". How many president's channel does the president need? If they all say the same thing, isn't one enough. I remember that. Radio meant radio: on and off. >I am terribly tired of the people, who aren't ready for something >else than hysteria. No, quite the opposite, your quote from Pobedonoscev prepared us to see the end of it, like in 1916. >I voted for the current president. This was my choice. The choice I >made and the choice for which I am responsible. I hope he lives up to your hopes and expectations. And I hope you like his rhetoric about "zamochit' v bachke". Sorry, the journalists transmitted his words verbatim. >If Gusinky, the owner of NTV, will lose his channel (by the way, he >will get $400 Million for it) - I will not regret about it. He is the >dinosaur of the Yeltsin's epoch - and this epoch is over. If Gusinsky looses NTV it is because this is the price he pays for his personal freedom. He has an NTV to buy his, what have you got to buy yours if the moment comes? >Yes, it is very important. But why 'only'? You forgot about the Russian >public opinion. Not at all, and you express it beautifully. >Please read http://www.russ.ru/politics/articles/20000624_gpavl.html. >G.Pavlovsky has expressed the ideas I share much better than I can. I also liked the words of Shajgu, the original front man for Edinstvo, that no more parties should be created, everybody should unite around the existing one. I think we already witnessed that once. AI ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at WANADOO.FR Wed Sep 20 17:49:26 2000 From: gadassov at WANADOO.FR (Adassovsky Georges) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 18:49:26 +0100 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: <39C87C20.E4E88EEE@uni-muenster.de> Message-ID: >The German paper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung quoted this Russian joke: > >Why did the Ostankino television tower burn? >Due to a collision with a foreign TV tower... And to rescue people, they were waiting for Norwegian alpinists.... This story sounds better in Russian (ask Alina the true text) Georges ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Wed Sep 20 16:52:24 2000 From: jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Jolanta M. Davis) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:52:24 -0400 Subject: query: origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I know that this subject was probably discussed before but it's impossible to search SEELANGS archives for "Slav" to find it anyway, can someone please advise me where to find a good discussion of the origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to the word "slave" for instance, when did the Slavic people fist start calling themselves "Slavs", did it start with a particular tribe/nation of Slavs and then spread or was it proto-Slavic, when does the word first appear in print, also when did the Romans first used "sclave," what did it used to mean, was it borrowed from the Slavic languages? thank you Jolanta Davis Jolanta M. Davis Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS) 8 Story Street Cambridge, MA 02138, USA tel.: (617) 495-0679 fax: (617) 495-0680 http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Wed Sep 20 17:29:54 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:29:54 -0500 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adassovsky Georges" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 12:49 PM Subject: Re: freedom of the press > >The German paper Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung quoted this Russian joke: > > > >Why did the Ostankino television tower burn? > >Due to a collision with a foreign TV tower... > > And to rescue people, they were waiting for Norwegian alpinists.... > > This story sounds better in Russian (ask Alina the true text) > > Georges This and many other jokes can be found at the "Anecdot" site: http://www.bk.ru/topw/anecdot.html You can visit it if you are not afraid of some "risque" jokes - the site is not mediated and some jokes can be too "uncensored". Beware: you may not like some jokes. Adding up to the joke about the Decembrists I can offer yet another joke illustrating the Russian (maybe all Eastern-Slavic) attitude to the rich. A peasant was digging in his garden and found a bottle. When he uncorked it, a jinni came out of the bottle and said: "I've been sitting in this bottle for 40,000 years, and you set me free! Ask whatever you want and I will grant your wish! But on one condition: your neighbor will get twice as much". The peasant scratched the back of his head and said: " Take out one of my eyes". The reasons WHY Russians hate the rich is outside the topic. It may be explained by centuries-long practice of "obshchina" among the peasantry and maybe lots of other reasons. However, the dependance of the freedom of speech and press upon the living standards of the population is too obvious. The poor don't care about the freedom of speech and press. They would rather they had more bread than freedom. Freedom of speech is only affordable to well-off nations to which Russia does not belong, has never belonged, and is not likely to belong in the foreseable future. In fact the poor people's mentality perceives the freedom of press and speech as "bardak" (disorder, unrestrained promiscuity) and cynical mockery, because this freedom is not translatable into anything material. In the context of the widespread impoverishment, the democratic rhetorics is labeled as "dermocratija". The memories of Communist abundance and affordability with no freedom of press suggest a good contrast to the current situation. And fancy cars roaming the streets is an unsult to those who cannot afford to buy a loaf of bread. A good example is my native Belarus. President Lukashenko has managed to stifle almost all the free press to the silent content of the people at large. The president-controlled media is absolutely similar to what it was in the USSR: trumpeting the "achievements", criticising the West, absolutely supporting the President, who is portrayed as the defendant of the poor, wise, fair and merciless to enemies. This was made possible by the poor people's support or, in the best case, indifference and by their nostalgia about the golden days of Communism, when bread cost only 14 kopeks and beer was overflowing and almost free. Putin may follow the same route. At least he is one of the very few world leaders who shakes hands with Lukashenko, calls him "friend" and gives him such a sweet hug that it makes people's eyes wet. Remember the Roman emperors who thought that "bread and entertainment" was all the poor needed. Pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emilydjohnson at OU.EDU Wed Sep 20 20:15:55 2000 From: emilydjohnson at OU.EDU (Emily Johnson) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 16:15:55 -0400 Subject: Adjunct position Message-ID: The Department of Modern Languages, Literatures, and Linguistics at the > University of Oklahoma would like to hire an adjunct to teach a single > three-hour course in intermediate Russian during the spring semester of > 2001. Native or near-native proficiency in Russian and English, a > graduate degree (M.A. or higher), and experience teaching Russian to > American students are required. For more information on the position, > please contact Dr. Emily Johnson, The Department of Modern Languages, > Literatures, and Linguistics, The University of Oklahoma, 780 Van Vleet > Oval, Room 202, Norman, Oklahoma 73019-2032. email: > emilydjohnson at ou.edu. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pyz at PANIX.COM Wed Sep 20 21:15:30 2000 From: pyz at PANIX.COM (pyz at PANIX.COM) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 17:15:30 -0400 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: <200009200313.MAA07477@tsuji.yt.cache.waseda.ac.jp> from "Yoshimasa Tsuji" at Sep 20, 2000 12:13:48 PM Message-ID: > > Dear Alina, > Although Putin has stifled mass media a bit, but saying > >>Today we may be witnessing the end of the freedom of the press in Russia. > > is too much of an emotinal exaggeration. Look at other Eastern bloc > countries, particularly those that were part of the Soviet Union. > Russia is still one of the freest counties of them all. And I suppose that you'll tell us that RFE/RL reporter Andrei Babitsky's ordeal is a figment of our imagination or some bizarre exception to the rules. "Babitsky To Go On Trial" (9/20/00) http://www.rferl.org/welcome/english/releases/babitsky000920.html > >>Russian public opinion in this matter is on the side of the government > >>simply because it always has been on the side of the government and because > >>Russians philosophically hate rich people. > > Russians love rich people, but not those who show off their possesions, > but those who are rich in non-material values, such as scholarship, > arts, good manners, etc. Since the majority of the Russians have been > very poor for hundred of years, they love those who would understand and > sympathize them and hate those who look down upon them (A perfectly > respectable young scholar from Russia may be taken for a prostitute, > or a beggar at best in the West. Stories like this abound.) > > I don't think Putin is determined to save the poor, but thanks to the > budget surplus he is going to raise the salary of the state employees The budget surplus currently enjoyed is due to high energy prices; the day prices falls so does the surplus and whatever hopes that are pinned to it. Russia's economy is pegged to the export of commodities - oil, diamonds, timber, fur. Since there is relative high political risk on the part of purchasers dealing with Russian exporters, the minute supply comes in line with demand you can easily expect purchasers to go elsewhere since this risk is overly costly. Further, little if any the profits from the current mini economic boom are directed at capital investment, consequently the average age of the Russian Federation's capital stock has recently spiked from ten to fourteen years with the only possiblity of its turnaround coming from foreign investors; the chance of that is real slim. Add to this that the RF imports 60% of its food and that its current GDP stands at 40% of what it was in 1991, and that 36% of the current GDP benefits Moscow with the balance dispersed across eleven timezones. > and the pensions substantially. The West may object to this, saying it > will cause hyperinflation and try to snatch money back to IMF etc., no > one knows what will really happen, but Putin appears to the public a good > guy. On the other hand, Berezovskij, having stranded somewhere in Europe > due to a breakdown of his personal jet plane, can hardly gain public > support for his campaign for the freedom of the press even if he tries > to pass his control over NTV to a group of intelligentsia. Nobody trusts > a person who everyone thinks has robbed the country. > > >>The only thing that may still have an effect is the Western public opinion. > >>Please think about it. > I very well remember how Jablinskij failed in the last election: firstly, > it was reported that he was popular in the West (that was devastating > to his image). Secondly, he began developing a large scale election > campaign in the TV and particularly in the streets at every way out > of the underground station. People wondered, where does all this > extraordinary money come from? No wonder Jablinskij was seen as > buying votes. (It was very risky that US supplied so much money > to El'cin in the presidential campaign. Lucky he was that the fact > never got out in bad timing.) > > The most important factor in Russia is patience. Do not jump to any > measure that they say will solve the problem. Only the time can. And time says that it will only get worse. Russia is collapsing in on itself - the Kursk tragedy, the Ostankino Tower fire, the bombings of Moscow, the wars in Chechnya, the appropriation and export of its wealth are all examples of this continuing trend. > Cheers, > Tsuji Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From medwards at ARB.CA.GOV Wed Sep 20 22:25:40 2000 From: medwards at ARB.CA.GOV (Mark Edwards) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:25:40 -0700 Subject: Adjunct position Message-ID: Emily I have a BA (in German-with a minor in Russian) and MLS from OU and an MA in Russian from Univ Calif Davis and have taught a couple of Russian basic courses at Calif State Univ Sacramento and a JC on the side, keeping my main profession-librarian. Can you give me more details please. My e-mail address is listed and my mailing address is: Mark Edwards, 3267 Wilkinson Rd, Cameron Park, CA 95682 Thanks Emily Johnson wrote: > The Department of Modern Languages, Literatures, and Linguistics at the > > University of Oklahoma would like to hire an adjunct to teach a single > > three-hour course in intermediate Russian during the spring semester of > > 2001. Native or near-native proficiency in Russian and English, a > > graduate degree (M.A. or higher), and experience teaching Russian to > > American students are required. For more information on the position, > > please contact Dr. Emily Johnson, The Department of Modern Languages, > > Literatures, and Linguistics, The University of Oklahoma, 780 Van Vleet > > Oval, Room 202, Norman, Oklahoma 73019-2032. email: > > emilydjohnson at ou.edu. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From medwards at ARB.CA.GOV Wed Sep 20 22:26:30 2000 From: medwards at ARB.CA.GOV (Mark Edwards) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:26:30 -0700 Subject: Adjunct position Message-ID: Emily Mark E again. I forgot to mention that I was a teaching TA in Russian while at OU. Mark Emily Johnson wrote: > The Department of Modern Languages, Literatures, and Linguistics at the > > University of Oklahoma would like to hire an adjunct to teach a single > > three-hour course in intermediate Russian during the spring semester of > > 2001. Native or near-native proficiency in Russian and English, a > > graduate degree (M.A. or higher), and experience teaching Russian to > > American students are required. For more information on the position, > > please contact Dr. Emily Johnson, The Department of Modern Languages, > > Literatures, and Linguistics, The University of Oklahoma, 780 Van Vleet > > Oval, Room 202, Norman, Oklahoma 73019-2032. email: > > emilydjohnson at ou.edu. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Wed Sep 20 23:53:04 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:53:04 +0900 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: <200009202115.RAA21247@panix2.panix.com> (pyz@PANIX.COM) Message-ID: I remember having heard this decades ago. An Austrian economist in the early 1920's argued for the impossibility of a Socialist economy as it lacks the measure with which to calculate the quantity of economic goods. Theoretically he was right, but contrary to his prediction, the Soviet Union survived much, much longer than he had expected. More than that, the standard of living indeed improved under socialism (longer life expectancy, improved sewage system, etc.) If the oil price goes down again, the life in Russia will be ruined, but let us hope there will be something better by that time. The life in Russia is totally unpredictable and uncertain: people are more or less forced to play Russian roulette every day. As somebody has said Russia cannot be understood by reason but by heart. For those who hate Russians, Russia will remain an enigma for ever. Cheers, Tsuji ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pyz at PANIX.COM Thu Sep 21 01:05:46 2000 From: pyz at PANIX.COM (Max Pyziur) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:05:46 -0400 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: Yoshimasa Tsuji wrote: > > I remember having heard this decades ago. An Austrian economist > in the early 1920's argued for the impossibility of a Socialist > economy as it lacks the measure with which to calculate the quantity > of economic goods. Theoretically he was right, but contrary to his > prediction, the Soviet Union survived much, much longer than he > had expected. More than that, the standard of living indeed improved > under socialism (longer life expectancy, improved sewage system, etc.) All this was gotten not through a benevolant ruling entity (in your words "Socialist economy"), but rather umitigated oppression and great human cost. It's therefore foolish to glorify the Soviet Union as having achieved something truly dignifying to humanity. And whatever it achieved it really was for a very short period of time. > If the oil price goes down again, Probably within a year if not sooner. > the life in Russia will be ruined, > but let us hope there will be something better by that time. The life > in Russia is totally unpredictable and uncertain: people are more or less > forced to play Russian roulette every day. > As somebody has said Russia cannot be understood by reason but by > heart. For those who hate Russians, Russia will remain an enigma for ever. No enigma. The central power of the SU performed its work very well, atomising existence, removing even the barest collective bonds. Once this central power began to unravel it left behind, especially in Russia, an amorphous mass of humans who for several generations have not known things such as local government or the spontaneity of collective action; Russians are without a shred of ethnic culture (which the other peoples of the SU retained in one form or another, to lesser or greater degrees) on which to fall back. Consequently, Russia, as the successor to the SU, is in a pathetic state rapidly becoming one of the weakest and most pitiable national societies, rife with corruption and mediocrity. > Cheers, > Tsuji Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Subhash.Jaireth at AGSO.GOV.AU Thu Sep 21 01:11:40 2000 From: Subhash.Jaireth at AGSO.GOV.AU (Subhash.Jaireth at AGSO.GOV.AU) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:11:40 +1100 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: All this was gotten not through a benevolant ruling entity (in your words "Socialist economy"), but rather umitigated oppression and great human cost. It's therefore foolish to glorify the Soviet Union as having achieved something truly dignifying to humanity. And whatever it achieved it really was for a very short period of time. Yes, but it is also equally foolish to entertain historical/ideological blind spots which make you only 'see' things/people/events/cultures in terms of strictly binary oppositions: good and bad, good and evil. It is hard to imagine if the prosperity and wealth which the so called free world (the 'west') boasts so much about, could have been achieved without systematic colonial oppression and destruction of indigenous peoples and their cultures? Subhash -----Original Message----- From: Max Pyziur [mailto:pyz at PANIX.COM] Sent: Thursday, 21 September 2000 12:06 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: freedom of the press Yoshimasa Tsuji wrote: > > I remember having heard this decades ago. An Austrian economist > in the early 1920's argued for the impossibility of a Socialist > economy as it lacks the measure with which to calculate the quantity > of economic goods. Theoretically he was right, but contrary to his > prediction, the Soviet Union survived much, much longer than he > had expected. More than that, the standard of living indeed improved > under socialism (longer life expectancy, improved sewage system, etc.) All this was gotten not through a benevolant ruling entity (in your words "Socialist economy"), but rather umitigated oppression and great human cost. It's therefore foolish to glorify the Soviet Union as having achieved something truly dignifying to humanity. And whatever it achieved it really was for a very short period of time. > If the oil price goes down again, Probably within a year if not sooner. > the life in Russia will be ruined, > but let us hope there will be something better by that time. The life > in Russia is totally unpredictable and uncertain: people are more or less > forced to play Russian roulette every day. > As somebody has said Russia cannot be understood by reason but by > heart. For those who hate Russians, Russia will remain an enigma for ever. No enigma. The central power of the SU performed its work very well, atomising existence, removing even the barest collective bonds. Once this central power began to unravel it left behind, especially in Russia, an amorphous mass of humans who for several generations have not known things such as local government or the spontaneity of collective action; Russians are without a shred of ethnic culture (which the other peoples of the SU retained in one form or another, to lesser or greater degrees) on which to fall back. Consequently, Russia, as the successor to the SU, is in a pathetic state rapidly becoming one of the weakest and most pitiable national societies, rife with corruption and mediocrity. > Cheers, > Tsuji Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Thu Sep 21 01:05:37 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:05:37 -0500 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: > As somebody has said Russia cannot be understood by reason but by > heart. For those who hate Russians, Russia will remain an enigma for ever. > > Cheers, > Tsuji "Umom Rossiju ne poniat', Arshinom obshchim ne izmerit', U nej osobennaja stat', V Rossiju mozhno tol'ko verit'". Indeed, "umom ne poniat'". Tsiuji. I don't believe there are many people who hate Russians. But Russian have been perceived as potential threat. Russia will never become rich unless it abandons its ambitions to play a major role in the world and to be a superpower. The sunken Kursk is many unpaid pensions to millions of toothless and sick "babushka's". There are many "Kursks" and even more nukes. I served in the Soviet army and I know what it is about. They cannot even shoe soldiers they way they should. It is high time the Russian government understood that Russia should be a normal, calm and cultivated average country which thinks about its people rather than about its ambitions. Pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Thu Sep 21 01:24:36 2000 From: dumanis at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 21:24:36 -0400 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: <200009202353.IAA07685@tsuji.yt.cache.waseda.ac.jp> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Yoshimasa Tsuji wrote: ......snip....... > As somebody has said Russia cannot be understood by reason but by > heart. For those who hate Russians, Russia will remain an enigma for ever. > > Cheers, > Tsuji Umom Rossiju ne ponjat', Arshinom obshchim ne izmerit': U nej osobennaja stat' - V Rossiju mozhno tol'ko verit'. Fjodor Ivanovich Tjutchev. Dated November 28, 1866. Please read his poetry. I am sure you'll enjoy. Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bobick at ACCESSONE.COM Thu Sep 21 03:23:49 2000 From: bobick at ACCESSONE.COM (Stephen J. Bobick) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:23:49 -0700 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: > Yoshimasa Tsuji wrote: > > I remember having heard this decades ago. An Austrian economist > > in the early 1920's argued for the impossibility of a Socialist > > economy as it lacks the measure with which to calculate the quantity > > of economic goods. Theoretically he was right, but contrary to his > > prediction, the Soviet Union survived much, much longer than he > > had expected. More than that, the standard of living indeed improved > > under socialism (longer life expectancy, improved sewage system, etc.) If you kill off enough people in any society, the standard of living for those that remain will be better (same amount of "stuff" to be shared by less). This is all the more true, when many of those killed off first spend a few years working as slaves (building canals, subways, and so on). -- Stepan Bobyk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mitrege at AUBURN.EDU Thu Sep 21 03:49:48 2000 From: mitrege at AUBURN.EDU (George Mitrevski) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:49:48 -0500 Subject: FWD: seeking a book for a Russian friend Message-ID: This is a forwarded message. If you can help the individual, please reply directly to him at the address below. He is not on the SEELANGS mailing list. >===== Original Message From "Douglas, Thack" ===== I am seeking a book for a Russian friend and I'm hoping you can help. My friend thinks the title is 'Dvoynaya Doroga'. The problem is that he can't remember the author. Web searches have turned up nothing of use. The main characters were named Igor, Ivan, and Natalya. There's a town called Pocrovka as well. The story is told in flashbacks, all involving a choice made at a crossroads or a fork in the road. If you know the author, please email me back - I'm trying to find it as a gift. Thanks in advance, Thack Douglas thack at blueband.net ========================================================================== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Thu Sep 21 04:48:42 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:48:42 +0900 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: <008a01c02368$0d6bbf70$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> (message from Pavel Samsonov on Wed, 20 Sep 2000 20:05:37 -0500) Message-ID: If there is anything praiseworthy of Russia, it is undoubtedly the people who have achieved so many great things IN SPITE OF all the destructive policies of the government they have had so far. Hitler imagined Stalin had no popular support and thus could easily defeat Russia, and he was mistaken. Russia won in spite of Stalin's incompetence. I don't know if Putin is incompetent or if Russian economy will collapse with the fall of the oil prices, but am very sure the life of the Russians depends only upon the Russians themselves, not on the external forces including the government. We are witnessing a tremendous change in the Russian language and its culture since 1990 and many of us will find the contemporary culture worthy of studying. And it has little to do with what Putin is going to do. I don't disagree to a statement that Russia has paid unnecessarily high cost for its achievements. For example, the life expectancy in the villages in the last 100 years has improved by 10 to 15 years (60 years for men now). And it is indeed a great achievement if you think about what most of the 200 countries in the world achieved in the same time span. Russia paid a high cost, but there are nations that paid a lot but got nearly nothing. Russia was lucky having Sozhenicyn and others who have created great works out of misery, but there are many nations in Asia and Africa who have suffered much more and have not attracted due attention due to the absence of world famous writers. It is not the misery nor the incompetent government officials that attract our attention to Russia, but those attractive talented people. Or have you ever thought of Russia as a business chance? Cheers, Tsuji ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From charlesprice_50 at YAHOO.COM Thu Sep 21 11:02:25 2000 From: charlesprice_50 at YAHOO.COM (Charles Price) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 04:02:25 -0700 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" Message-ID: --- "Jolanta M. Davis" wrote: > I know that this subject was probably discussed > before but it's impossible > to search SEELANGS archives for "Slav" to find it > anyway, can someone please advise me where to find a > good discussion of the > origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to the > word "slave" > for instance, when did the Slavic people fist start > calling themselves > "Slavs", did it start with a particular tribe/nation > of Slavs and then > spread or was it proto-Slavic, when does the word > first appear in print, > also when did the Romans first used "sclave," what > did it used to mean, was > it borrowed from the Slavic languages? > thank you > Jolanta Davis > Jolanta M. Davis > Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor > American Association for the Advancement of Slavic > Studies (AAASS) > 8 Story Street > Cambridge, MA 02138, USA > tel.: (617) 495-0679 > fax: (617) 495-0680 > http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From charlesprice_50 at YAHOO.COM Thu Sep 21 11:14:30 2000 From: charlesprice_50 at YAHOO.COM (Charles Price) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 04:14:30 -0700 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" Message-ID: I know of three competing etymologies for the term Slav; the issue is obviously politicised. 1)Slave: (Russians tend not to be too happy about this one) 2)Slava: meaning "Glory" (They prefer this) 3)Slovo: meaning "Word", denoting the ability of Slavs to communicate with each other. Conversely, Germans are called "Nemetsky", from "Nemoi" meaning "Dumb, unable to speak". I am not sure where there is a good discussion of this. I think there may be something in Billington's "Icon and the Axe". Charles Price --- "Jolanta M. Davis" wrote: > I know that this subject was probably discussed > before but it's impossible > to search SEELANGS archives for "Slav" to find it > anyway, can someone please advise me where to find a > good discussion of the > origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to the > word "slave" > for instance, when did the Slavic people fist start > calling themselves > "Slavs", did it start with a particular tribe/nation > of Slavs and then > spread or was it proto-Slavic, when does the word > first appear in print, > also when did the Romans first used "sclave," what > did it used to mean, was > it borrowed from the Slavic languages? > thank you > Jolanta Davis > Jolanta M. Davis > Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor > American Association for the Advancement of Slavic > Studies (AAASS) > 8 Story Street > Cambridge, MA 02138, USA > tel.: (617) 495-0679 > fax: (617) 495-0680 > http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From charlesprice_50 at YAHOO.COM Thu Sep 21 11:25:15 2000 From: charlesprice_50 at YAHOO.COM (Charles Price) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 04:25:15 -0700 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" Message-ID: Apologies- the previous message appeared not to go through. I know of three competing etymologies for the term Slav; the issue is evidently politicised. 1) Slave (Russians tend not to be very happy about this one). 2) Slava: meaning "Glory". (They prefer this one.) 3) Slovo: meaning "Word", denoting the ability of Slavs to communicate with each other. Conversely, Germans were labelled "Nemtsy", meaning "dumb, unable to speak", because of their inability to communicate with Slavs. Futher clarification of this question would be interesting, but I am not sure where it is discussed in detail; I think there may be something in Billington's "Icon and the Axe". Charles Price --- "Jolanta M. Davis" wrote: > I know that this subject was probably discussed > before but it's impossible > to search SEELANGS archives for "Slav" to find it > anyway, can someone please advise me where to find a > good discussion of the > origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to the > word "slave" > for instance, when did the Slavic people fist start > calling themselves > "Slavs", did it start with a particular tribe/nation > of Slavs and then > spread or was it proto-Slavic, when does the word > first appear in print, > also when did the Romans first used "sclave," what > did it used to mean, was > it borrowed from the Slavic languages? > thank you > Jolanta Davis > Jolanta M. Davis > Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor > American Association for the Advancement of Slavic > Studies (AAASS) > 8 Story Street > Cambridge, MA 02138, USA > tel.: (617) 495-0679 > fax: (617) 495-0680 > http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Rolf.Fieguth at UNIFR.CH Thu Sep 21 12:01:23 2000 From: Rolf.Fieguth at UNIFR.CH (Rolf Fieguth) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:01:23 +0200 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" Message-ID: Probably the most competent commentary is to find in Max Vasmer, Russisches etymologisches Wörterbuch, Russian Version Maks Fasmer, Etimologicheskij slovar russkogo jazyka, t. III, "slavjanin". "Slave" is reported there to be originally a Modern Greek formation "sklavos" (slave) derived from "sklavinos" (Slav). Rolf Fieguth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dintinjana at SIOL.NET Thu Sep 21 12:00:41 2000 From: dintinjana at SIOL.NET (JMD) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:00:41 +0200 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" Message-ID: A word from a layperson who dabbles in etymology in her spare time, if I may. :-) Slovo = a letter, word. // Perhaps this would be a useful analogy: Nemec = a person who does not speak, is "nem (nemec)" even today (mutec = mute); the word for "German" still used today is "Nemec" (in Slovene, for example). My assumption: if the other person spoke a language you did not understand, it was pretty much the same as if you were talking to someone who is mute(dumb, speechless) - you would have to rely on sign language - hands, not sound. Also, if you consider the Russian word "mir" (sorry, I don't have the C. keyboard) and today's Slovenian "mir", you see amazing connections: in Russian, this word stands for the cosmos, in Slovenian it means "peace". So the ancients must have perceived the cosmos - the starr sky - as a place that is peace+ful. Take another example, the name Miroslav (Frederick, Friedrich): miro + slav = he who celebrates the peacefulness of the cosmos with his word. The word 'celebrate' is incidentally also = 'slaviti'. :-) And the Slovene word 'svet', which means 'the world', also means 'holy'. The world as a holy place, imagine that. 'Sciavi' or 'sclavi' must have come later. It's interesting though that I don't seem to be able to find any old pejorative Slovenian words for the neighbouring German or Italic peoples - all are recent (Lahi, Svabi - pre -WW I and post- WWII). I would be interested in hearing the comments of those who have studied etymology professionally. Respectfully, Mia Dintinjana dintinjana at siol.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pyz at PANIX.COM Thu Sep 21 12:28:29 2000 From: pyz at PANIX.COM (Max Pyziur) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:28:29 -0400 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: Yoshimasa Tsuji wrote: > > If there is anything praiseworthy of Russia, it is undoubtedly > the people who have achieved so many great things IN SPITE OF > all the destructive policies of the government they have had > so far. > Hitler imagined Stalin had no popular support and thus could > easily defeat Russia, and he was mistaken. Russia won in spite of Was it Russia that won or the Soviet Union? And why do you continuously not make the distinction? Further, the Soviet Union defeated Germany not through skill and training, but because there was yet another soldier standing behind the one who had just fallen, poorly equipped, oftentimes w/o even a helmit. > Stalin's incompetence. I don't know if Putin is incompetent or Putin is a moron. He is a hack apparatchik who can't see past some romanticized notion of the SU. He pursued joining the KGB because he saw some spy movie in the late 60s, later attending a mediocre "law" institute and then serving as a two-bit operative in Dresden in the 80s. Hardly exemplary things which indicate that he has either the capacity to manage or lead. > if Russian economy will collapse with the fall of the oil prices, > but am very sure the life of the Russians depends only upon the > Russians themselves, not on the external forces including the > government. > We are witnessing a tremendous change in the Russian language > and its culture since 1990 and many of us will find the contemporary > culture worthy of studying. And it has little to do with what Putin > is going to do. And it has everthing to do with how Russian people organize or not organize themselves as a society. > I don't disagree to a statement that Russia has paid unnecessarily > high cost for its achievements. For example, the life expectancy in > the villages in the last 100 years has improved by 10 to 15 years > (60 years for men now). And it is indeed a great achievement if you > think about what most of the 200 countries in the world achieved > in the same time span. Russia paid a high cost, but there are > nations that paid a lot but got nearly nothing. Yes, but have you looked at the variance across that 100 years? Hasn't the longevity rate been falling in recent times? > Russia was lucky having Sozhenicyn and others who have created > great works out of misery, but there are many nations in Asia > and Africa who have suffered much more and have not attracted due > attention due to the absence of world famous writers. It is not > the misery nor the incompetent government officials that attract > our attention to Russia, but those attractive talented people. > Or have you ever thought of Russia as a business chance? And it is important to remember the context in which those writers and artists developed and continue to develop. Were they nurtured by a state apparatus and isolated from the rest of society (Soviet composers such as Shostakovitch and Katchatourian come to mind) or was their art and craft born and/or tied to particular communities? > Cheers, > Tsuji > -- Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Thu Sep 21 13:38:23 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 09:38:23 -0400 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: >Umom Rossiju ne ponjat', I believe he also said Mysl' izrechennaja est' lozh'. These are hardly appropriate slogans for social studies. ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Philippe.FRISON at COE.INT Thu Sep 21 13:44:23 2000 From: Philippe.FRISON at COE.INT (FRISON Philippe) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 15:44:23 +0200 Subject: Slavs and nemtsy Message-ID: As far as 'nemets'is concerned, I have always been told that the term comes from the usage imposed by Russia's authorities in the Middle Age, according to which Russians were not allowed to speak to foreigners. Merchants had to propose a barter in placing their products on one side, and the foreigners would put the quantity of theirs which they judged to be eequivalent to those of the Russians on the opposite (without a word). There foreigners therefore came to be called "nemtsy". As those who took part in these deals were mostly Germans, they were finally called like that as the word "inostrantsy" was came to be used for foreigners in general. Philippe Frison -----Original Message----- From: Charles Price [mailto:charlesprice_50 at YAHOO.COM] Sent: 21 ñåíòÿáðÿ 2000 ã. 13:25 To: Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" Apologies- the previous message appeared not to go through. I know of three competing etymologies for the term Slav; the issue is evidently politicised. 1) Slave (Russians tend not to be very happy about this one). 2) Slava: meaning "Glory". (They prefer this one.) 3) Slovo: meaning "Word", denoting the ability of Slavs to communicate with each other. Conversely, Germans were labelled "Nemtsy", meaning "dumb, unable to speak", because of their inability to communicate with Slavs. Futher clarification of this question would be interesting, but I am not sure where it is discussed in detail; I think there may be something in Billington's "Icon and the Axe". Charles Price --- "Jolanta M. Davis" wrote: > I know that this subject was probably discussed > before but it's impossible > to search SEELANGS archives for "Slav" to find it > anyway, can someone please advise me where to find a > good discussion of the > origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to the > word "slave" > for instance, when did the Slavic people fist start > calling themselves > "Slavs", did it start with a particular tribe/nation > of Slavs and then > spread or was it proto-Slavic, when does the word > first appear in print, > also when did the Romans first used "sclave," what > did it used to mean, was > it borrowed from the Slavic languages? > thank you > Jolanta Davis > Jolanta M. Davis > Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor > American Association for the Advancement of Slavic > Studies (AAASS) > 8 Story Street > Cambridge, MA 02138, USA > tel.: (617) 495-0679 > fax: (617) 495-0680 > http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Thu Sep 21 10:07:08 2000 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:07:08 +0000 Subject: Lithuanian search engine Message-ID: Could the person who posted the URL for the Lithuanian search engine please repost it? The friend I sent it to deleted it by mistake. Thanks! Emily Tall ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Dimitri.Bourilkov at CERN.CH Thu Sep 21 15:04:38 2000 From: Dimitri.Bourilkov at CERN.CH (Dimitri Bourilkov) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:04:38 +0100 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" Message-ID: Hello, The best is to use the Oxford English Dictionary: Slav [In early use ad. med.L. Sclavus (recorded from c 800), corresponding to late Gr. (c580): cf. older G. Sklave, Sclav(e, Schlav(e, MHG. Schlaff. The later forms in Sl-correspond to mod.G. and F. Slave, med.L. Slavus (951), and are closer to the OSlav. and Russian forms: see SLOVENE.] Slovene [a. G. Slovene (Slowene), pl. Slovenen, ad. Styrian, etc. Slovenec, pl. Slovenci; the name is a survival of the old native designation of the Slavs, which appears in OSlav. as Slovne, and is supposed to be derived from the stem of slovo word, sloviti to speak.] slave [ad. OF. esclave (also mod.F.), sometimes fem. corresponding to the masc. esclaf, esclas (pl. esclaz, esclauz, esclos, etc.), = Prov. esclau masc., esclava fem., Sp. esclavo, -va, Pg. escravo, -va, It. schiavo, -va, med.L. sclavus, sclava, identical with the racial name Sclavus (see SLAV), the Slavonic population in parts of central Europe having been reduced to a servile condition by conquest; the transferred sense is clearly evidenced in documents of the 9th century. The form with initial scl- is also represented by older G. schlav(e, sclav(e, G. sklave. In English the reduction of scl- to sl- is normal, and the other Teut. languages show corresponding forms, as WFris. slaef, NFris. slaaw, MDu. slave, slaef (Du. slaaf), MLG. and LG. slave (hence Da. and Norw. slave), older G. slaf(e, Sw. slaf). The history of the words representing slave and Slav in late Gr., med.L., and G., is very fully traced in Grimm's Deutsches Wörterbuch s.v. Sklave.] Best regards, Michaela & Dimitri Bourilkov -- _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ Dimitri BOURILKOV _/ _/ _/ _/ Institute for Particle Physics, ETH Zurich _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/ _/_/_/_/ Mail: CERN, CH-1211 Geneva 23, Switzerland _/ _/ _/ _/ E-mail: Dimitri.Bourilkov at cern.ch _/ _/ _/ _/ Web: http://l3www.cern.ch/~bourilko/ _/_/_/_/ _/_/_/_/ Phone: +41-22-7679389 Fax: +41-22-7827558 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU Thu Sep 21 14:35:56 2000 From: sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU (Sibelan Forrester) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:35:56 -0400 Subject: Slavs and nemtsy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 3:44 PM +0200 9/21/00, FRISON Philippe wrote: >As far as 'nemets'is concerned, I have always been told that the term comes >from the usage imposed by Russia's authorities in the Middle Age, according >to which Russians were not allowed to speak to foreigners. > [snip....] That explanation would be more convincing if other Slavic languages did not use the same term for Germans (nemets, nijemac, etc.) -- they could not do this because of a Russian merchandising rule, the word was shared at a time when there weren't any Russians yet, and certainly not any Russian state that could issue and enforce that kind of edict. It seems more likely (forgive me, specialists who know, for not citing the sources I've forgotten) that the term came into use because the Slavs or proto-Slavs, at some point where just about all the various tribes were still mutually intelligible, called foreigners (perhaps only foreigners who LOOKED similar to Slavs and so could be expected to speak the same way?) ne^mets, because their language sounded like senseless babble. The Germans were the closest big foreign group, and if their first big contact with the Slavs was via Clarlemagne (king of the Franks, whose name was adopted as the word for king, kralj or korol' etc.) and his slash-and-burn conversion program, then there may have been a reason for the term "nemec" to have a pejorative connotation, if only to mean someone whose speech is equivalent to no speech in terms of how much we understand it! This assumes that the Slavs in the common or proto- period were familiar enough with other linguistic groups they rubbed up against (Greeks, Bulgars, Finns, Magyars, various other Finno-Ugric tribes, Balts, Khazars, and -- perhaps most puzzling -- Scandinavians, whose languages must have sounded a lot like Old German at that point) that they recognized their speech as speech, rather than something foreign or sub-lingual. (Perhaps relevant note here: Grand Prince Vladimir/Volodymyr Monomakh married Gytha, daughter of Harald Hardraada, the last Saxon king of England, whose family lived after the razgrom of 1066 as emigres in Kyiv/Kiev.) While Muscovite history would explain a lot about why Russians would see Germans as the first really foreign Europeans (given the historical willingness to interpret other people speaking any Slavic language or dialect as "little brothers" or even as deluded Russians who could still be saved from the error of their ways given enough educational encouragement), and while for the West Slavs the Germans clearly were the next language group over, the South Slavs use it too -- the term still must come from a period when the Prussians were still speaking a Baltic tongue and the French were still German(ic). Obligatory asides here about the fact that "German" in English means a language that sounds familiar or fraternal to us (comp. "germane" or Spanish "hermano"); the fact that there was no German state to hate until the 19th century; that if the Prussians were originally not a Germanic ethnicity (anyone want to write an article on the etymological links of Prus' and Rus'?) then the whole argument that a certain set of traits are ethnically typical of Germans loses a bit more of its "logic." A useful comparison to "nemec" is the Greek root "barbar" for people from other language/ethnic groups (which would have included the Slavs), originally onomatopeia for a language that could not be understood, that sounded like "bar bar bar" -- today we'd say "blah blah blah" or "yadda yadda" or something. Interesting too how the language thing and the culture thing become linked. Back to work -- Sibelan Sibelan Forrester Russian/MLL Swarthmore College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Thu Sep 21 14:40:27 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 10:40:27 EDT Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: In a message dated 9/21/0 2:39:54, yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP writes: << As somebody has said Russia cannot be understood by reason but by heart. For those who hate Russians, Russia will remain an enigma for ever. >> This reminds me of what one of my best teachers of Czech (Czech native) said: you can't completely understand certain features of Czech grammar logically--you have to FEEL the difference between the right and wrong usage (by dint of intensive exposure to Czech.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Thu Sep 21 15:14:29 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:14:29 +0900 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: <200009210448.NAA07744@tsuji.yt.cache.waseda.ac.jp> (message from Yoshimasa Tsuji on Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:48:42 +0900) Message-ID: Just a reminder. I understand that in common usage of English, the Soviet Union and Russia are not actually distinguished. Who cares whether the Russian mafias are actually transcaucasians or not. It is because Soviet Union was dominated by Russia or because Soviet Union was just a communist name for Romanov's Russian Empire. It is like saying the sun rises in the east, which may not be correct in scientific terms, but that is the way people say. If you wish to make a clear distinction, you should use the term RSFSR or RF instead of "Russia". Cheers, Tsuji ----- Though USA has never conquered American continents totally, people say, "Columbus discovered America"(as a matter of fact, West Indies) and "Clinton is the president of America". People are clever enough not to confuse USA and American continents. The effort by the Russians to comfort non-Russians using the term "Rossijskaja Imperija" was not appreciated by foreigners: it was yet again "Russian Empire" when translated. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From daper at UMICH.EDU Thu Sep 21 15:14:54 2000 From: daper at UMICH.EDU (dawn) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:14:54 -0700 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've heard this quotation in many contexts, the first was in an undergraduate Native American studies course. It's probably been translated into many languages. I think it has to do with whether we can ever accurately represent thought and feeling within the confines of spoken language. Dawn Pointer > > Mysl' izrechennaja est' lozh'. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pyz at PANIX.COM Thu Sep 21 15:29:31 2000 From: pyz at PANIX.COM (pyz at PANIX.COM) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:29:31 -0400 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: <200009211514.AAA07952@tsuji.yt.cache.waseda.ac.jp> from "Yoshimasa Tsuji" at Sep 22, 2000 12:14:29 AM Message-ID: > > Just a reminder. I understand that in common usage of English, > the Soviet Union and Russia are not actually distinguished. Just a reminder I'm a native speaker of American English. To me the Soviet Union is distinctly different from Russia, though in casual conversation it is too often mistakenly blurred. Further, if you position yourself as an academic then you should strive for precision in meaning and definition rather than making casual references. Or are your casual references an indication of your preferences? > Who cares whether the Russian mafias are actually transcaucasians > or not. Granted organizations such as the FBI lump organized criminal activity originating by fSU types under the rubric ROC (Russian Organized Crime), most of them these days are Russian-Jewish organizations along with the semibankirschyna - Berezovsky, Gusinsky, et cetera. > It is because Soviet Union was dominated by Russia or because > Soviet Union was just a communist name for Romanov's Russian > Empire. It is like saying the sun rises in the east, which may > not be correct in scientific terms, but that is the way people > say. If you wish to make a clear distinction, you should use > the term RSFSR or RF instead of "Russia". I generally do. Last, since you sport an unmistakenly Japanese name and are affiliated with a Japanese academic institution what are your thoughts and feelings on the continued Russian Federation's (self-appointed successor state to the SU) occupation of the Kuril islands? Is the RF correct in its position stated by Putin that any sort of settlement will stirrup negative nationalism and cause further unrest in the RF? Should Japan continue to be patient or just forcibly overtake the islands seeing that the Russian Federation's potential military threat, given its failings in Chechnya and the sinking of the Kursk, just reinforced from cardboard cutouts? Should Japan give up its claim to the Kurils conceding that they are the RF's sovereign territory? > Cheers, > Tsuji Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From daper at UMICH.EDU Thu Sep 21 15:34:11 2000 From: daper at UMICH.EDU (dawn) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 08:34:11 -0700 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" In-Reply-To: <003a01c023c3$a6d5d3c0$6193fea9@essentia> Message-ID: The difference in meaning you mention of the words 'mir' i 'svet' between Russian and Slovenian also exist within Russian. Mir - peace, world Svet - light, world (although more like the english 'earth' I think) (Neba - heaven, the heavens Vselennaia - universe Kosmos - cosmos) Can anyone say more about the distinction between the two and their usage? They seem to be subtle variations of each other. Thanks, Dawn > From: JMD > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:00:41 +0200 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" > > A word from a layperson who dabbles in etymology in her spare time, if I > may. :-) Slovo = a letter, word. // Perhaps this would be a useful analogy: > Nemec = a person who does not speak, is "nem (nemec)" even today (mutec = > mute); the word for "German" still used today is "Nemec" (in Slovene, for > example). My assumption: if the other person spoke a language you did not > understand, it was pretty much the same as if you were talking to someone > who is mute(dumb, speechless) - you would have to rely on sign language - > hands, not sound. Also, if you consider the Russian word "mir" (sorry, I > don't have the C. keyboard) and today's Slovenian "mir", you see amazing > connections: in Russian, this word stands for the cosmos, in Slovenian it > means "peace". So the ancients must have perceived the cosmos - the starr > sky - as a place that is peace+ful. Take another example, the name Miroslav > (Frederick, Friedrich): miro + slav = he who celebrates the peacefulness of > the cosmos with his word. The word 'celebrate' is incidentally also = > 'slaviti'. :-) And the Slovene word 'svet', which means 'the world', also > means 'holy'. The world as a holy place, imagine that. > > 'Sciavi' or 'sclavi' must have come later. It's interesting though that I > don't seem to be able to find any old pejorative Slovenian words for the > neighbouring German or Italic peoples - all are recent (Lahi, Svabi - > pre -WW I and post- WWII). I would be interested in hearing the comments of > those who have studied etymology professionally. > > Respectfully, > > Mia Dintinjana > dintinjana at siol.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dintinjana at SIOL.NET Thu Sep 21 15:44:50 2000 From: dintinjana at SIOL.NET (JMD) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 17:44:50 +0200 Subject: "Slav" Message-ID: > Svet - light, world (although more like the english 'earth' I think) - Yes, in Slovenian 'svet' is also used as 'land' (e.g. 'this is my land, from here to there), and 'svetel' means 'light'. In the old days they also used 'svitel'. > Vselennaia - universe The older (poetic) Slovenian word for cosmos = vsemirje (Serbo-Croatian = svemir), literally vse+mir+je (all+peace+is / I'm not sure the 'je' part really was a verb). Not to forget: Dawn = Svit.:-) Regards, Mia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Thu Sep 21 16:59:10 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:59:10 -0500 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" Message-ID: Also, if you consider the Russian word "mir" (sorry, I > don't have the C. keyboard) and today's Slovenian "mir", you see amazing > connections: in Russian, this word stands for the cosmos, in Slovenian it > means "peace". In Russian the word "mir" (in its old meaning) means "peace, world, society, people". This is one of those subtleties that are lost in translation. Leo Tolstoy implied all the meanings in his "Voina i mir".(War and Peace). In translation only the idea of "peace" is preserved. Pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dintinjana at SIOL.NET Thu Sep 21 17:36:28 2000 From: dintinjana at SIOL.NET (JMD) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:36:28 +0200 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation Message-ID: Thank you. I stand corrected. > > Your analysis of the Russian words is incorrect. > > One of the meanings of "mir" in Russian is peace. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Ulrich.Schmid at UNIBAS.CH Thu Sep 21 18:02:06 2000 From: Ulrich.Schmid at UNIBAS.CH (Ulrich Schmid) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 20:02:06 +0200 Subject: Slavs and nemtsy Message-ID: I think, the etymology of "nemets" as "a mute person" is a popular one. Much more probable is a derivation from a tribe called in Latin "nemetes" - they originally settled in the region of today's Hungary. Still now in German there exists the family name "Nemeth". Ulrich Schmid University of Basel (Switzerland) Ulrich Schmid vom 24. Juli bis 14. Okt. 2000: Wilckensstr. 4 D - 69120 Heidelberg Tel. (06221) 58 59 90 Ulrich.Schmid at unibas.ch www.unibas.ch/slavi www.pano.ch www.pano.de ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john.mackay at YALE.EDU Thu Sep 21 18:12:16 2000 From: john.mackay at YALE.EDU (John Mackay) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:12:16 -0400 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: <200009211529.LAA22589@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: > > > Who cares whether the Russian mafias are actually transcaucasians > > or not. > > Granted organizations such as the FBI lump organized criminal activity > originating by fSU types under the rubric ROC (Russian Organized Crime), > most of them these days are Russian-Jewish organizations along with the > semibankirschyna - Berezovsky, Gusinsky, et cetera. > !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Thu Sep 21 18:12:38 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 14:12:38 -0400 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" Message-ID: > in Russian, this word stands for the cosmos, in Slovenian it >means "peace". So the ancients must have perceived the cosmos - the starr >sky - as a place that is peace+ful. Those were two different words at least spellingwise: one had a dotted i (i desjaterichnoe) and the other i we enjoy these days (i vos'merichnoe). ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Thu Sep 21 18:09:22 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:09:22 -0500 Subject: freedom of the press Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "dawn" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 10:14 AM Subject: Re: freedom of the press > I've heard this quotation in many contexts, the first was in an > undergraduate Native American studies course. It's probably been translated > into many languages. I think it has to do with whether we can ever > accurately represent thought and feeling within the confines of spoken > language. > > Dawn Pointer > > > > > Mysl' izrechennaja est' lozh'. The idea is ascribed to the Ancient Greece stoics. Pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Thu Sep 21 18:29:54 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:29:54 -0500 Subject: Slavs and nemtsy Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "FRISON Philippe" To: Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2000 8:44 AM Subject: Re: Slavs and nemtsy As far as 'nemets'is concerned, I have always been told that the term comes from the usage imposed by Russia's authorities in the Middle Age, according to which Russians were not allowed to speak to foreigners. Merchants had to propose a barter in placing their products on one side, and the foreigners would put the quantity of theirs which they judged to be eequivalent to those of the Russians on the opposite (without a word). There foreigners therefore came to be called "nemtsy". As those who took part in these deals were mostly Germans, they were finally called like that as the word "inostrantsy" was came to be used for foreigners in general. ____________ This does not explain why in most Slavic languages (Polish, Belarusian, Bulgarian) the word "nemets" means German. The origin of "nemets" should be much older, probably of the time when the Slavic language was the same for all the Slavic tribes. Pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jflevin at UCRAC1.UCR.EDU Thu Sep 21 18:58:35 2000 From: jflevin at UCRAC1.UCR.EDU (Jules Levin) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 11:58:35 -0700 Subject: freedom of the press In-Reply-To: <52113C81E9ACD31182D40060B0570D9B28FBD6@agsomail1.agso.gov. au> Message-ID: At 12:11 PM 9/21/00 +1100, you wrote: > >Yes, but it is also equally foolish to entertain historical/ideological >blind spots which make you only 'see' things/people/events/cultures in terms >of strictly binary oppositions: good and bad, good and evil. It is hard to >imagine if the prosperity and wealth which the so called free world (the >'west') boasts so much about, could have been achieved without systematic >colonial oppression and destruction of indigenous peoples and their >cultures? > > >Subhash It has been demonstrated that the colonies were a net economic loss for the great western powers, who prospered in spite of their colonies, not because of them. And these ex-colonies have gone downhill since their liberations to the extent they have tried to apply the same socialist remedies that ruined Russia. Those that are finally applying market solutions are turning around, India, for example. Countries that continually blame others for their problems are doomed to wallow in their own misery, e.g., Russia. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jflevin at UCRAC1.UCR.EDU Thu Sep 21 19:30:48 2000 From: jflevin at UCRAC1.UCR.EDU (Jules Levin) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 12:30:48 -0700 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" In-Reply-To: <004401c023ed$435921b0$41eb5ba5@coe.tamu.edu> Message-ID: At 11:59 AM 9/21/00 -0500, you wrote: ". > >This is one of those subtleties that are lost in translation. Leo Tolstoy >implied all the meanings in his "Voina i mir".(War and Peace). >In translation only the idea of "peace" is preserved. > Perhaps, but the two meanings were spelled differently. Mir = peace was unambiguous to Tolstoy and his readers. That's why Mayakovsky could publish "War and the World", changing one letter. This distinction is now lost in Russian, but preserved in translation. When we see the title "Huckleberry Finn" do we think of the word 'fin', and ponder the subtleties? I doubt it. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Thu Sep 21 18:49:42 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 19:49:42 +0100 Subject: Fw: Lithuanian search engines Message-ID: Here you are, Emily Cheers, Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Andrew Jameson To: SEELANGS Subject: Fw: Lithuanian search engines Date: 15 September 2000 11:26 ---------- From: jurate_stanaityte at fc.vdu.lt To: east-west-research at mailbase.ac.uk; russian-studies at mailbase.ac.uk; a.jameson at dial.pipex.com Subject: Re: search engines in SEEL Date: 14 September 2000 12:01 Lithuanian search engines: http://infoseek.ktu.lt http://www.search.lt http://www.on.lt Regards, Jurate Stanaityte Vytautas Magnus University Kaunas ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From anon at example.com Thu Sep 21 20:03:30 2000 From: anon at example.com (anon at example.com) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:03:30 +0200 Subject: was: freedom of the press Message-ID: One gets quite tired listening to all these Russia admirers for whom Russia is much more of an enigma than for any decent Russia hater. Isn't Said's work on Orientalism known in Japan? I can only recommend it. As to quoting Russian classics, I'd like to quote "someone else" (I.Guberman): Davno pora, **ena mat', Umom Rossiyu ponimat'. Cheers, l. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dorwin at CHASS.UTORONTO.CA Thu Sep 21 20:23:15 2000 From: dorwin at CHASS.UTORONTO.CA (Donna Orwin) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 16:23:15 -0400 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to"slave" Message-ID: On the subject of the two "mirs" and how Tolstoy played with them, see Ia. Bilinkis, O tvorchestve L. N. Tolstogo: Ocherki (Leningrad, 1959), 195-279; E. E. Zaidenshnur, `Voina i mir' L. N. Tolstogo": Sozdanie velikoi knigi (Moscow, 1966); S. Bocharov, `Voina i mir' L. N. Tolstogo" in Bocharov, Tri shedevry russkoi klassiki (Moscow, 1971) 7-103 passim; and G. Ia. Galagan, L. N. Tolstoi: Khudozhestvenno-eticheskie iskaniia (Leningrad, 1981) 93-99. Jules Levin wrote: > At 11:59 AM 9/21/00 -0500, you wrote: > ". > > > >This is one of those subtleties that are lost in translation. Leo Tolstoy > >implied all the meanings in his "Voina i mir".(War and Peace). > >In translation only the idea of "peace" is preserved. > > > Perhaps, but the two meanings were spelled differently. Mir = peace was > unambiguous to Tolstoy and his readers. That's why Mayakovsky could > publish "War and the World", changing one letter. This distinction is now > lost in Russian, but preserved in translation. > When we see the title "Huckleberry Finn" do we think of the word 'fin', > and ponder the subtleties? I doubt it. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lisamc2 at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Sep 21 20:58:24 2000 From: lisamc2 at EARTHLINK.NET (Mary Elizabeth McLendon) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 13:58:24 -0700 Subject: was: freedom of the press Message-ID: >One gets quite tired listening to all these Russia admirers for whom Russia is much more of an enigma than for any decent Russia hater. Aren't most of us on this list on it because we have some sort of love or admiration for Russia? (not to exclude all of the other Slavic and EE languages, but most of the discussions seem to be about Russia) Whether we like it or not, each of us sees Russia from our own point of view, through our own biases, with our own set of generalizations. There are many ideas about solutions for Russia's current problems. More than one of them may be right, or they may all be impossible. (but the discussion so far has been very interesting!) I think that the original point of this topic, that freedom of the press is being not-so-slowly eroded in Russia, is an extremely important issue. However, as the saying goes, you can't put toothpaste back in the tube. People in Russia now know what it's like to have a more or less free press (keep in mind that most newspapers and TV stations in the US are owned by major corporations which have their own agendas) but the USSR was in existence recently enough for them to remember what things were like without the press being free. No one I've ever met wants to go back to that no matter how they may long for other aspects of life under communism. With today's technology it would be well nigh impossible to control information as the USSR did, unless the populace was completely willing (we'll have to wait and see about that). I have no doubt at all that the Russians will weather this period in history, and probably have some beautiful art, literature and music to show for it. The question is not what we can do to help (we've probably done enough already) but how we can best support the Russian people (and I do mean people, not the government) in whatever direction they decide to go. Lisa McLendon ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Thu Sep 21 21:49:08 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:49:08 +0100 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" Message-ID: Thank goodness Rolf Fieguth refers us to Vasmer, both for nemets and for slave (s.v. slavianin). I am surprised how often the linguistic discussions in this group are conducted with no reference to the established literature. Vasmer appears to dismiss nemetes as phonetically impossible. The existence of nemets in so many Slav languages surely indicates a Common Slavonic origin (i.e. before Germans in the modern sense were a recognized ethnic entity) and the use of the word in Russian at least indicates that the exclusive meaning of German is fairly modern. I recall one 17th century Russian text (sorry, reference escapes me) which declares that America was discovered by 'nemtsy s Portugalii' and another which says that Romans were nemtsy who lived in Rome. This kind of linguistic us-and-them usage is not uncommon. Barbarians were people who the Greeks thought could only babble incomprehensibly; 'friagi' (Franks), was a term in Russian also widely applied to people who were not Frankish but simply dwellers in western Europe; and the word Welsh, which the English applied to the inhabitants of Wales, is in fact a word of Germanic origin meaning 'foreign'. Will Ryan Warburg Institute Rolf Fieguth wrote: > > Probably the most competent commentary is to find in Max Vasmer, Russisches > etymologisches WЖrterbuch, Russian Version Maks Fasmer, Etimologicheskij > slovar russkogo jazyka, t. III, "slavjanin". "Slave" is reported there to be > originally a Modern Greek formation "sklavos" (slave) derived from > "sklavinos" (Slav). Rolf Fieguth > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ################################################################## W. F. Ryan, MA, DPhil, FBA, FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862 8940 (direct) tel: 020 7862 8949 (switchboard) fax: 020 7862 8939 Institute Webpage fttp://www.sas.ac.uk/warburg/ ################################################################## ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Thu Sep 21 21:52:31 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 22:52:31 +0100 Subject: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to "slave" Message-ID: Somewhere in Trifonov's novel Studenty there is a passage in which a foreign student (Korean I seem to remember) at a New Year's student party, after listening to Stalin's New Year speech, exclaims 'it is surely no accident that only in Russian is the word for world and peace the same!' (In medieval fashion, I quote from memory - I read it forty years ago). Will Ryan, Warburg Institute Jules Levin wrote: > > At 11:59 AM 9/21/00 -0500, you wrote: > ". > > > >This is one of those subtleties that are lost in translation. Leo Tolstoy > >implied all the meanings in his "Voina i mir".(War and Peace). > >In translation only the idea of "peace" is preserved. > > > Perhaps, but the two meanings were spelled differently. Mir = peace was > unambiguous to Tolstoy and his readers. That's why Mayakovsky could > publish "War and the World", changing one letter. This distinction is now > lost in Russian, but preserved in translation. > When we see the title "Huckleberry Finn" do we think of the word 'fin', > and ponder the subtleties? I doubt it. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ################################################################## W. F. Ryan, MA, DPhil, FBA, FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862 8940 (direct) tel: 020 7862 8949 (switchboard) fax: 020 7862 8939 Institute Webpage fttp://www.sas.ac.uk/warburg/ ################################################################## ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From anon at example.com Thu Sep 21 22:13:39 2000 From: anon at example.com (anon at example.com) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 00:13:39 +0200 Subject: Slavs and nemtsy Message-ID: I think, the etymology of "nemets" as "a mute person" is a popular one. Much more probable is a derivation from a tribe called in Latin "nemetes" - they originally settled in the region of today's Hungary. Still now in German there exists the family name "Nemeth". Ulrich Schmid [Comment] I'd suppose that numerous migrants within/from the Habsburg Empire had this surname as a Magyarized version of Slavic 'nemec.' Sir Lewis Namier had a footnote on the Slav-Nemets question: "The name Slav is derived from slovo, which, in all Slav languages, means 'word'--they were the 'worded ones', who could understand each other, whereas the Germans, who merely mumbled (mye-mye), were the myemtsy, which changed into Nyemtsy, the name common for them with all Slavs; nyemy also means 'dumb'. The names of two of the Slav nations--the Slovaks and the Slovenes--are mere variations of the racial cognomen." Pozdravi, l. p.s. Off-topically, Russian Constitution stipulates that the name of the country is Russia OR Russian Federation. Let us be precise when asking precision of others. Also, let us avoid Antisemitic comments like those of Mr. Pyziur. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Thu Sep 21 22:35:24 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 18:35:24 EDT Subject: Slavs and nemtsy Message-ID: In a message dated 9/21/0 21:35:24, sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU writes: << At 3:44 PM +0200 9/21/00, FRISON Philippe wrote: >As far as 'nemets'is concerned, I have always been told that the term comes >from the usage imposed by Russia's authorities in the Middle Age, according >to which Russians were not allowed to speak to foreigners. > [snip....] >> A personal sidelight: I visited Russia for a couple of weeks last year while studying in Brno. Not speaking more than a few phrases of Russian and reading a little Cyrillic, when I got lost or stuck and appealed to some passerby... I'd try first Czech, then English, French and the tattered remnants of Italian. If the Russian didn't speak any of these, s/he would inevitable reply, "No speak English." This struck me as odd--conflating three different KINDS of non-Russian language into "English." Explanation, anyone? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ElisabethG at YUCOM.BE Thu Sep 21 23:06:54 2000 From: ElisabethG at YUCOM.BE (Elisabeth Ghysels) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 01:06:54 +0200 Subject: the two mirs In-Reply-To: <39CA6E33.ADEAA218@chass.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: The two "mirs" raise several questions for me: 1) when and how did the "i desjaterichnoe" disappear in Russian? 2) am I right, that it has been retained in Ukrainian? 3) How can it be explained, that such an important difference between both languages has developed apparently during the Soviet era, of all eras? 4) When did the "i desjaterichnoe" appear in the first place, since it didn't seem to exist in old church Slavic? 5) How were "peace" and "world" written before the appearance of the "i desjaterichnoe"? Thanks, Nikolaus Dr. Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger Spichtenberg 7 B 9681 Nukerke tel: **32 - 55 - 21 99 85 email: Nikolaus.Lutz at rug.ac.be or nld at yucom.be http://dreamwater.net/nikolaus/ -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]Namens Donna Orwin Verzonden: donderdag 21 september 2000 22:23 Aan: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Onderwerp: Re: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation to"slave" On the subject of the two "mirs" and how Tolstoy played with them, see Ia. Bilinkis, O tvorchestve L. N. Tolstogo: Ocherki (Leningrad, 1959), 195-279; E. E. Zaidenshnur, `Voina i mir' L. N. Tolstogo": Sozdanie velikoi knigi (Moscow, 1966); S. Bocharov, `Voina i mir' L. N. Tolstogo" in Bocharov, Tri shedevry russkoi klassiki (Moscow, 1971) 7-103 passim; and G. Ia. Galagan, L. N. Tolstoi: Khudozhestvenno-eticheskie iskaniia (Leningrad, 1981) 93-99. Jules Levin wrote: > At 11:59 AM 9/21/00 -0500, you wrote: > ". > > > >This is one of those subtleties that are lost in translation. Leo Tolstoy > >implied all the meanings in his "Voina i mir".(War and Peace). > >In translation only the idea of "peace" is preserved. > > > Perhaps, but the two meanings were spelled differently. Mir = peace was > unambiguous to Tolstoy and his readers. That's why Mayakovsky could > publish "War and the World", changing one letter. This distinction is now > lost in Russian, but preserved in translation. > When we see the title "Huckleberry Finn" do we think of the word 'fin', > and ponder the subtleties? I doubt it. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From iiskrova at INDIANA.EDU Fri Sep 22 02:16:11 2000 From: iiskrova at INDIANA.EDU (Iskra Iskrova) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:16:11 -0500 Subject: Slavs and nemtsy In-Reply-To: <41.1216dc7.26fbe72c@aol.com> Message-ID: There are two discussions going on around the etymology of 'Slave'. I am not etymologist, but I would like to add some info coming from Southern Europe. I thought that a flavor coming from other geographical areas than Russia might give ideas for further investigations. Prior to the arrival of Proto-Bulgarians on the territory of ourdays Bulgaria in the 7th century, between the Danube and the Balkan chain were leaving the so called 7-Slavic tribes. They have been settled there for centuries after the extinction of the Thraces. What I have studied in my Balkan culture classes is that since the Thrace period, Greeks were taking slaves in this area. These slaves were sent as far as Egypt and actually there were numerically important groups of ethnic Slaves there. This fact would be the origin of the ethymon: 'those who are made slaves'. As for the term 'Nemec', in Bulgarian, as well as in other Slavic languages already quoted, 'njam (sg.), nemi (pl.)' means 'speechless, mute'. At some historical period (sorry I am recalling facts from classes taken 10 years ago!) there were numerically important groups of German workers in the mines in Central and Southern Europe. Since there was no linguistic intellegibility with these Germans, they have been called 'nemci' with the meaning 'the mutes, the ones who cannot express temselves'. The idea of 'being the ones who speak' vs. 'those who are unable to speak' is common in ethnonyms all over the world. I agree with the idea that this contact between the two ethnic groups should have happened early in the history of Slaves in order to have such a wide diffusion of the ethnonym 'Nemec' accross Slavic languages. Best, Iskra. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at SPRINT.CA Fri Sep 22 03:09:36 2000 From: colkitto at SPRINT.CA (Robert Orr) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 23:09:36 -0400 Subject: Slavs and nemtsy Message-ID: > that if the Prussians were originally >not a Germanic ethnicity (anyone want to write an article on the >etymological links of Prus' and Rus'?) Not unless in a spirit of satire. The two ethnonyms are originally quite distinct. "Prus" has hardly changed since it was first recorded, in C 9 AD, and the root cannot be broken down further. "Rus", however is from Old Scandinavian "Roths(menn)" "rowers" (cf. Finnish "ruotsi", Estonian "roots" (referrng to Sweden; this does get a bit complicated; see Struminski: Linguistic Interrelations in Early Rus, which everybody should read closely) Robert Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dwkaiser at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Sep 22 02:50:58 2000 From: dwkaiser at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (David Kaiser) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2000 21:50:58 -0500 Subject: Slavs and nemtsy In-Reply-To: <41.1216dc7.26fbe72c@aol.com> Message-ID: At 06:35 PM 9/21/00 -0400, you wrote: >A personal sidelight: I visited Russia for a couple of weeks last year while >studying in Brno. Not speaking more than a few phrases of Russian and >reading a little Cyrillic, when I got lost or stuck and appealed to some >passerby... > >I'd try first Czech, then English, French and the tattered remnants of >Italian. If the Russian didn't speak any of these, s/he would inevitable >reply, "No speak English." This struck me as odd--conflating three different >KINDS of non-Russian language into "English." Explanation, anyone? > It is entirely possible you just look like what an English speaker looks like to the average person in Russia. I noticed while living there that it was often, though not always, possible to guess someone's nationality based on clothing, body language, hair, etc, long before a word of any language was heard. Perhaps those you speak with notice something about you that just screams "I am American!" and they don't listen to your words. Dave Kaiser UChicago "A shared purpose did not claim my identity. On the contrary, it enlarged my sense of myself." Senator John McCain ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ljubich at INFORMATIK.UNI-ROSTOCK.DE Fri Sep 22 07:34:04 2000 From: ljubich at INFORMATIK.UNI-ROSTOCK.DE (Mykhailo Lyubich) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:34:04 +0200 Subject: the two mirs Message-ID: Hi Elisabeth Ghysels wrote: > The two "mirs" raise several questions for me: > > 1) when and how did the "i desjaterichnoe" disappear in Russian? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What does it mean "i desjaterichnoe"? I can probably answer your next and third questions, but I am not sure about this term. > > 2) am I right, that it has been retained in Ukrainian? > 3) How can it be explained, that such an important difference between both > languages has developed apparently during the Soviet era, of all eras? > 4) When did the "i desjaterichnoe" appear in the first place, since it > didn't seem to exist in old church Slavic? > 5) How were "peace" and "world" written before the appearance of the "i > desjaterichnoe"? > > Thanks, > > Nikolaus > Dr. Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger > Spichtenberg 7 > B 9681 Nukerke > tel: **32 - 55 - 21 99 85 > email: Nikolaus.Lutz at rug.ac.be > or nld at yucom.be > http://dreamwater.net/nikolaus/ > > -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- > Van: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]Namens Donna Orwin > Verzonden: donderdag 21 september 2000 22:23 > Aan: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Onderwerp: Re: Slavery? origins of the word "Slav" and its relation > to"slave" > > On the subject of the two "mirs" and how Tolstoy played with them, see Ia. > Bilinkis, O tvorchestve L. N. Tolstogo: Ocherki (Leningrad, 1959), 195-279; > E. > E. Zaidenshnur, `Voina i mir' L. N. Tolstogo": Sozdanie velikoi knigi > (Moscow, > 1966); S. Bocharov, `Voina i mir' L. N. Tolstogo" in Bocharov, Tri shedevry > russkoi klassiki (Moscow, 1971) 7-103 passim; and G. Ia. Galagan, L. N. > Tolstoi: Khudozhestvenno-eticheskie iskaniia (Leningrad, 1981) 93-99. > > Jules Levin wrote: > > > At 11:59 AM 9/21/00 -0500, you wrote: > > ". > > > > > >This is one of those subtleties that are lost in translation. Leo Tolstoy > > >implied all the meanings in his "Voina i mir".(War and Peace). > > >In translation only the idea of "peace" is preserved. > > > > > Perhaps, but the two meanings were spelled differently. Mir = peace was > > unambiguous to Tolstoy and his readers. That's why Mayakovsky could > > publish "War and the World", changing one letter. This distinction is now > > lost in Russian, but preserved in translation. > > When we see the title "Huckleberry Finn" do we think of the word 'fin', > > and ponder the subtleties? I doubt it. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Mykhailo Lyubich Dept.of Computer Science office phone +49-381-4983407 University of Rostock office fax +49-381-4983440 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Fri Sep 22 08:56:47 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 09:56:47 +0100 Subject: the two mirs Message-ID: The two letter i's in Church Slavonic and Old Russian had the alpha-numerical values of 8 and 10. Modern European Hindu-Arabic numerals are not usually found in Russia before the 17th century and are not widespread before Peter the Great. Mykhailo Lyubich wrote: > What does it mean "i desjaterichnoe"? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Professor W. F. Ryan, MA DPhil FBA FSA Librarian, Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square, LONDON WC1H 0AB tel: 020 7862-8940 [direct line]; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8940. fax: 020 7862-8939; from outside UK dial +44 20 7862 8939. The Warburg Institute's main switchboard number is 020 7862-8949 The Warburg website is at http://www.sas.ac.uk/warburg/ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ElisabethG at YUCOM.BE Fri Sep 22 09:17:28 2000 From: ElisabethG at YUCOM.BE (Elisabeth Ghysels) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:17:28 +0200 Subject: the two mirs In-Reply-To: <39CB0B6B.EBF90A96@informatik.uni-rostock.de> Message-ID: Dear Mykhailo, I didn't know these names for the different forms of "i" myself, I took it from Alina Israeli, who wrote: "Those were two different words at least spellingwise: one had a dotted i (i desjaterichnoe) and the other i we enjoy these days (i vos'merichnoe)." So I guess "i desjaterichnoe" denotes the letter, which looks the same as in Latin script, "i" , while "i vos'merichnoe" denotes the letter, which looks like a Latin "u" or mirrored "N". Kind regards, Nikolaus -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]Namens Mykhailo Lyubich Verzonden: vrijdag 22 september 2000 9:34 Aan: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Onderwerp: Re: the two mirs Hi > The two "mirs" raise several questions for me: > > 1) when and how did the "i desjaterichnoe" disappear in Russian? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What does it mean "i desjaterichnoe"? I can probably answer your next and third questions, but I am not sure about this term. > > 2) am I right, that it has been retained in Ukrainian? > 3) How can it be explained, that such an important difference between both > languages has developed apparently during the Soviet era, of all eras? > 4) When did the "i desjaterichnoe" appear in the first place, since it > didn't seem to exist in old church Slavic? > 5) How were "peace" and "world" written before the appearance of the "i > desjaterichnoe"? > > Thanks, > > Nikolaus > Dr. Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger > Spichtenberg 7 > B 9681 Nukerke > tel: **32 - 55 - 21 99 85 > email: Nikolaus.Lutz at rug.ac.be > or nld at yucom.be > http://dreamwater.net/nikolaus/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From raeruder at POP.UKY.EDU Fri Sep 22 12:38:24 2000 From: raeruder at POP.UKY.EDU (Cynthia A. Ruder) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 08:38:24 -0400 Subject: translations Message-ID: A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1752 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Fri Sep 22 14:30:20 2000 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:30:20 EDT Subject: Slavs and nemtsy Message-ID: In a message dated 9/22/0 5:45:02, dwkaiser at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU writes: << It is entirely possible you just look like what an English speaker looks like to the average person in Russia. I noticed while living there that it was often, though not always, possible to guess someone's nationality based on clothing, body language, hair, etc, long before a word of any language was heard. Perhaps those you speak with notice something about you that just screams "I am American!" and they don't listen to your words. >> Good point. I hadn't thought of that--maybe because while in the Czech Republic, until I opened my mouth (and sometimes even then) I "looked like" an Italian or French speaker. Go figure! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ahornjat at MAILDROP.SRV.UALBERTA.CA Fri Sep 22 14:47:51 2000 From: ahornjat at MAILDROP.SRV.UALBERTA.CA (Andrij Hornjatkevyc) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 08:47:51 -0600 Subject: the two mirs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 01:06 AM 09/22/00 +0200, you wrote: >The two "mirs" raise several questions for me: > >1) when and how did the "i desjaterichnoe" disappear in Russian? It was abolished in the orthographic reform that had been prepared by the Imperial Academy of Sciences, but not implemented in 1913 because the Romanovs were busily celebrating their tricentennial, and then other events took precedence. The orthographic reform was implemented only after the October Revolution. When Peter I introduced the "grazhdanka" for secular texts, he proposed that "i desjaterichnoe" be used throughout and the "i vos'merichnoe" be eliminated from the alphabet, but this detail of his decree did not take hold, and both "i"s continued to be used. >2) am I right, that it has been retained in Ukrainian? It is retained in Ukrainian for the /i/ phoneme, while the "i vos'merichnoe" designates the /y/ phoneme. >3) How can it be explained, that such an important difference between both >languages has developed apparently during the Soviet era, of all eras? While in the pre-reform Russian orthography both 'i's designated the same phoneme - /i/, in Ukrainian they designate different phonemes, and this difference in practice antedates Soviet times by at least a century, and actually much longer. >4) When did the "i desjaterichnoe" appear in the first place, since it >didn't seem to exist in old church Slavic? As a matter of fact, the "i desjaterichnoe" can be found in the oldest classical Old Church Slavic Cyrillic MSS. Furthermore, even the glagolitic alphabet had three characters for the /i/ phoneme. >5) How were "peace" and "world" written before the appearance of the "i >desjaterichnoe"? See above. Dr. Andrij Hornjatkevyc Associate Professor Canadian Institute of Modern Languages and Ukrainian Studies Cultural Studies 352 Athabasca Hall 200 Arts Building University of Alberta University of Alberta Edmonton, AB T6G 2E8 Edmonton, AB T6G 2E6 phone (780) 492-3765 phone (780) 492-0733 fax (780) 492-4967 fax (780) 492-9106 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john.mackay at YALE.EDU Fri Sep 22 14:59:06 2000 From: john.mackay at YALE.EDU (John Mackay) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 10:59:06 -0400 Subject: extension programs for Russian Message-ID: A question: I've just been contacted by a person living in Georgia (USA) who wants to continue studying Russian but isn't living near a university offering Russian -- are there any extension/long-distance learning/correspondence programs out there which he might resort to? Thanks! J. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU Fri Sep 22 15:31:44 2000 From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:31:44 -0400 Subject: Slavs and nemtsy In-Reply-To: <200009221430.KAA14408@mail2.wheatonma.edu> Message-ID: ><< It is entirely possible you just look like what an English speaker looks >like to the average person in Russia. David is undoubtedly right here; or even more generally, Leslie, you looked like a foreigner -- and the foreigner becomes, generically, a speaker of English (statistically sound response if you think about it). In addition, that may have been the ONLY foreign phrase your speaker knew. Suppose s/he could not identify the other languages you attempted. S/he could not possibly answer you "je ne parle pas francais," not having enough French to recognize it in the first place. So they all went "into default (i.e. anglophone) mode." Francoise Rosset phone: (508) 286-3696 Department of Russian fax: (508) 286-3640 Wheaton College e-mail: frosset at wheatonma.edu Norton, Massachusetts 02766 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Fri Sep 22 20:27:17 2000 From: jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Jolanta M. Davis) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:27:17 -0400 Subject: Slavs and nemtsy In-Reply-To: <003301c02442$8b5c5720$c4a294d1@roborr.uottawa.ca> Message-ID: So, it seems nobody really knows where the word "slav" came from, doesn't it? According to a few English etymological dictionaries I checked the word came into English from Latin and Greek and used to be used in Greek for a group of people that lived in Eastern Europe. Interestingly, the same word also was used to mean "slave" a person in bondage to someone. It seems that the first meaning was that of a group of people and then that of a slave. I couldn't find a slavic (Russian, Polish, etc.) etymological dictionary so I couldn't check what the Slavic language dictionaries have to say about the origins of this word. In quite a few books on early Slavic history I found just a mention that the word might have come from "slovo"--word, to denote people that can communiate with each other, or it might have come from "slava"--fame. But I couldn't find a reference to a work that discusses the subject fully. Does anyone really know for certain where this word came from, in what language it was used first, and how it spread? thanks Jolanta At 11:09 PM 9/21/00 , you wrote: > > that if the Prussians were originally > >not a Germanic ethnicity (anyone want to write an article on the > >etymological links of Prus' and Rus'?) > >Not unless in a spirit of satire. The two ethnonyms are originally quite >distinct. > >"Prus" has hardly changed since it was first recorded, in C 9 AD, and the >root cannot be broken down further. > >"Rus", however is from Old Scandinavian "Roths(menn)" "rowers" (cf. Finnish >"ruotsi", Estonian "roots" (referrng to Sweden; this does get a bit >complicated; see Struminski: Linguistic Interrelations in Early Rus, which >everybody should read closely) > >Robert Orr > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ElisabethG at YUCOM.BE Fri Sep 22 21:31:42 2000 From: ElisabethG at YUCOM.BE (Elisabeth Ghysels) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 23:31:42 +0200 Subject: the two mirs In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20000922084751.006cd23c@pop.srv.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Thank you for your very comprehensive answer. Does all this then mean, that the Russian language has (had) a word for peace, and a different word for world, society; and that all nice efforts to find a philosophical reason why the Russian language has one word, that means peace as well as world, are meaningless? Kind regards, Nikolaus -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]Namens Andrij Hornjatkevyc Verzonden: vrijdag 22 september 2000 16:48 Aan: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Onderwerp: Re: the two mirs At 01:06 AM 09/22/00 +0200, you wrote: >The two "mirs" raise several questions for me: > >1) when and how did the "i desjaterichnoe" disappear in Russian? It was abolished in the orthographic reform that had been prepared by the Imperial Academy of Sciences, but not implemented in 1913 because the Romanovs were busily celebrating their tricentennial, and then other events took precedence. The orthographic reform was implemented only after the October Revolution. When Peter I introduced the "grazhdanka" for secular texts, he proposed that "i desjaterichnoe" be used throughout and the "i vos'merichnoe" be eliminated from the alphabet, but this detail of his decree did not take hold, and both "i"s continued to be used. >2) am I right, that it has been retained in Ukrainian? It is retained in Ukrainian for the /i/ phoneme, while the "i vos'merichnoe" designates the /y/ phoneme. >3) How can it be explained, that such an important difference between both >languages has developed apparently during the Soviet era, of all eras? While in the pre-reform Russian orthography both 'i's designated the same phoneme - /i/, in Ukrainian they designate different phonemes, and this difference in practice antedates Soviet times by at least a century, and actually much longer. >4) When did the "i desjaterichnoe" appear in the first place, since it >didn't seem to exist in old church Slavic? As a matter of fact, the "i desjaterichnoe" can be found in the oldest classical Old Church Slavic Cyrillic MSS. Furthermore, even the glagolitic alphabet had three characters for the /i/ phoneme. >5) How were "peace" and "world" written before the appearance of the "i >desjaterichnoe"? See above. Dr. Andrij Hornjatkevyc Associate Professor Canadian Institute of Modern Languages and Ukrainian Studies Cultural Studies 352 Athabasca Hall 200 Arts Building University of Alberta University of Alberta Edmonton, AB T6G 2E8 Edmonton, AB T6G 2E6 phone (780) 492-3765 phone (780) 492-0733 fax (780) 492-4967 fax (780) 492-9106 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From esjogren at NC.RR.COM Fri Sep 22 17:48:30 2000 From: esjogren at NC.RR.COM (Ernie Sjogren) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 17:48:30 -0000 Subject: extension programs for Russian Message-ID: Hi, Yes, there are. Many courses are listed here, although some of them are "Area Studies" rather than Russian Language: http://www.gnacademy.org/mason/catalog/browse.html?topic=Language;Russian Should this link not work, simply go to http://www.gnacademy.org and search on Russian. These lists seem not to completely up to date, but there are quite a few current, viable "distance" options listed here. Regards, Ernie Sjogren ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Mackay" To: Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 2:59 PM Subject: extension programs for Russian > A question: I've just been contacted by a person living in Georgia > (USA) who wants to continue studying Russian but isn't living near a > university offering Russian -- are there any > extension/long-distance learning/correspondence programs out there which > he might resort to? Thanks! > > J. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA Fri Sep 22 22:32:15 2000 From: natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA (Natalia Pylypiuk) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 16:32:15 -0600 Subject: myr vs. mir (in 18th c. Ukrainian literature) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Thank you for your very comprehensive answer. Does all this then mean, that >the Russian language has (had) a word for peace, and a different word for >world, society; and that all nice efforts to find a philosophical reason why >the Russian language has one word, that means peace as well as world, are >meaningless? >Kind regards, >Nikolaus >>2) am I right, that it has been retained in Ukrainian? >It is retained in Ukrainian for the /i/ phoneme, while the "i >vos'merichnoe" designates the /y/ phoneme. >>3) How can it be explained, that such an important difference between both >>languages has developed apparently during the Soviet era, of all eras? >While in the pre-reform Russian orthography both 'i's designated the same >phoneme - /i/, in Ukrainian they designate different phonemes, and this >difference in practice antedates Soviet times by at least a century, and >actually much longer. >Dr. Andrij Hornjatkevyc The Ukrainian philosopher Hryhorij Skovoroda (1722-1794) clearly distiguished between "peace" -- MYR (with "i vos'merichnoe") and "world" -- MIR (with "i desjaterichnoe"). (Soviet editors in the 1970s did not respect his orthographic practice.) For a discussion of Skovoroda's views, see George L. Kline, "Skovoroda's Metaphysics," in Richard H. Marshall, Jr., and Thomas E. Bird, eds., *Hryhorij Savyc(hachek) Skovoroda. An Anthology of Critical Essays* (CIUS: Edmonton, Toronto, 1994), esp. p. 231 and n. 20. Natalia Pylypiuk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Sat Sep 23 12:08:20 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:08:20 +0100 Subject: the two mirs Message-ID: Dear Nikolaus, We are talking about Common Slavic, maybe pre-500 AD. I don't know what evidence the Baltic languages can offer, perhaps someone else can help here. May I suggest that we regard the words in question as capable of development through metaphor, and here my common sense (and years of working with the Russian language) suggests the following: Mir originates in Slavic with the meaning community (as still exists today, although no-one has mentioned this specifically in this particular debate). This was for the ancient Slavs their world, it was a small world, but in time the meaning was extended more widely. The mir represented the people with whom you were at peace, otherwise it wouldn't have been a community. As simple as that. Later, as literacy and written records appeared, ambiguities arose and people started spelling the world and peace meanings differently. Fortunately the alphabet at that time had two letters for the sound "i". (This was a fortunate accident due to the phonological development of Byzantine Greek, where differing vowel sounds had "fallen together", but the letters representing them were retained. As the Byzantine Greek alphabet was the basis of the Cyrillic alphabet, the redundant letters were retained in the Cyrillic alphabet of the period.) Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Elisabeth Ghysels To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: the two mirs Date: 22 September 2000 22:31 Thank you for your very comprehensive answer. Does all this then mean, that the Russian language has (had) a word for peace, and a different word for world, society; and that all nice efforts to find a philosophical reason why the Russian language has one word, that means peace as well as world, are meaningless? Kind regards, Nikolaus -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]Namens Andrij Hornjatkevyc Verzonden: vrijdag 22 september 2000 16:48 Aan: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Onderwerp: Re: the two mirs At 01:06 AM 09/22/00 +0200, you wrote: >The two "mirs" raise several questions for me: > >1) when and how did the "i desjaterichnoe" disappear in Russian? It was abolished in the orthographic reform that had been prepared by the Imperial Academy of Sciences, but not implemented in 1913 because the Romanovs were busily celebrating their tricentennial, and then other events took precedence. The orthographic reform was implemented only after the October Revolution. When Peter I introduced the "grazhdanka" for secular texts, he proposed that "i desjaterichnoe" be used throughout and the "i vos'merichnoe" be eliminated from the alphabet, but this detail of his decree did not take hold, and both "i"s continued to be used. >2) am I right, that it has been retained in Ukrainian? It is retained in Ukrainian for the /i/ phoneme, while the "i vos'merichnoe" designates the /y/ phoneme. >3) How can it be explained, that such an important difference between both >languages has developed apparently during the Soviet era, of all eras? While in the pre-reform Russian orthography both 'i's designated the same phoneme - /i/, in Ukrainian they designate different phonemes, and this difference in practice antedates Soviet times by at least a century, and actually much longer. >4) When did the "i desjaterichnoe" appear in the first place, since it >didn't seem to exist in old church Slavic? As a matter of fact, the "i desjaterichnoe" can be found in the oldest classical Old Church Slavic Cyrillic MSS. Furthermore, even the glagolitic alphabet had three characters for the /i/ phoneme. >5) How were "peace" and "world" written before the appearance of the "i >desjaterichnoe"? See above. Dr. Andrij Hornjatkevyc Associate Professor Canadian Institute of Modern Languages and Ukrainian Studies Cultural Studies 352 Athabasca Hall 200 Arts Building University of Alberta University of Alberta Edmonton, AB T6G 2E8 Edmonton, AB T6G 2E6 phone (780) 492-3765 phone (780) 492-0733 fax (780) 492-4967 fax (780) 492-9106 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Sat Sep 23 12:57:34 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2000 13:57:34 +0100 Subject: Slavs and nemtsy Message-ID: Dear Iolanta, Maybe we internet and email people have forgotten about libraries?! I'm sure Harvard has lots of good Slavic etymological dictionaries! You can't really ask for scientific proof in this field, but the concensus seems to be that the three words slyt', slava and slovo are closely related and of Indo-European origin: Tsyganenko gives: kleus>sleus> slouos>slovo; the ancient collective ethnonym "slovene" denotes "people speaking a common language"; slava is probably a back formation from a form of the verb sluti to speak, meaning "much spoken about". All of this is within the Slavic speaking community. The term for slave in Slavic was "rab" which is linked to the present day words for "work" but also meek "robkii" and child "rebenok". The use of the ethnonym "slovene" to denote slave is really a matter of Germanic, Latin and Greek etymology, nothing to do with the Slavic languages. Refs: Tsyganenko GP, Etymologicheskii slovar' russkogo yazyka, Kiev, Radyans'ka Shkola, 1989. Chernykh PYa, Istoriko-etimologicheskii slovar' sovr. russkogo yazyka, M, Russkii Yazyk, 1994. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Jolanta M. Davis To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: Slavs and nemtsy Date: 22 September 2000 21:27 So, it seems nobody really knows where the word "slav" came from, doesn't it? According to a few English etymological dictionaries I checked the word came into English from Latin and Greek and used to be used in Greek for a group of people that lived in Eastern Europe. Interestingly, the same word also was used to mean "slave" a person in bondage to someone. It seems that the first meaning was that of a group of people and then that of a slave. I couldn't find a slavic (Russian, Polish, etc.) etymological dictionary so I couldn't check what the Slavic language dictionaries have to say about the origins of this word. In quite a few books on early Slavic history I found just a mention that the word might have come from "slovo"--word, to denote people that can communiate with each other, or it might have come from "slava"--fame. But I couldn't find a reference to a work that discusses the subject fully. Does anyone really know for certain where this word came from, in what language it was used first, and how it spread? thanks Jolanta ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ElisabethG at YUCOM.BE Sat Sep 23 23:53:11 2000 From: ElisabethG at YUCOM.BE (Elisabeth Ghysels) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 01:53:11 +0200 Subject: the two mirs Message-ID: Dear Mr. Jameson, the problem is of course, that this is just a possibility; it would be nice if we could have some scientific proof, i.e. an old text where mir is used both as society and as peace in a very practical sense, let's say a peace treaty, and is spelled the same in both instances. Has anyone an opinion at hand, from when the first text dates with evidently different spelling of both mirs (that is, not counting different spelling probably due to writing errors)? Another question: are there other words in Russian, which are ambiguous now, while they were distinct from each other as long as the i desjaterichnoe existed? Greetings, Nikolaus Dr. Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger Spichtenberg 7 B 9681 Nukerke tel: **32 - 55 - 21 99 85 email: Nikolaus.Lutz at rug.ac.be or nld at yucom.be http://dreamwater.net/nikolaus/ -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]Namens Andrew Jameson Verzonden: zaterdag 23 september 2000 14:08 Aan: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Onderwerp: Re: the two mirs Dear Nikolaus, We are talking about Common Slavic, maybe pre-500 AD. I don't know what evidence the Baltic languages can offer, perhaps someone else can help here. May I suggest that we regard the words in question as capable of development through metaphor, and here my common sense (and years of working with the Russian language) suggests the following: Mir originates in Slavic with the meaning community (as still exists today, although no-one has mentioned this specifically in this particular debate). This was for the ancient Slavs their world, it was a small world, but in time the meaning was extended more widely. The mir represented the people with whom you were at peace, otherwise it wouldn't have been a community. As simple as that. Later, as literacy and written records appeared, ambiguities arose and people started spelling the world and peace meanings differently. Fortunately the alphabet at that time had two letters for the sound "i". (This was a fortunate accident due to the phonological development of Byzantine Greek, where differing vowel sounds had "fallen together", but the letters representing them were retained. As the Byzantine Greek alphabet was the basis of the Cyrillic alphabet, the redundant letters were retained in the Cyrillic alphabet of the period.) Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From charlesprice_50 at YAHOO.COM Sun Sep 24 14:49:46 2000 From: charlesprice_50 at YAHOO.COM (Charles Price) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 07:49:46 -0700 Subject: russian amazon.com Message-ID: Can anyone recommend/advise on a Russian online bookshop that delivers internationally and can be trusted to take credit card details? TIA Charles __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From h.toby at LET.RUG.NL Sun Sep 24 16:35:12 2000 From: h.toby at LET.RUG.NL (Hanna Toby) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 18:35:12 +0200 Subject: russian amazon.com In-Reply-To: <20000924144946.16530.qmail@web2001.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Can anyone recommend/advise on a Russian online > bookshop that delivers internationally and can be > trusted to take credit card details? I have heard positive opinions about: www.esterum.com Success, Hania Toby ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From alexush at PAONLINE.COM Sun Sep 24 17:00:37 2000 From: alexush at PAONLINE.COM (Alexander Ushakov) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:00:37 -0400 Subject: russian amazon.com Message-ID: http://www.russianstory.com/RSClub/index.htm They (clearing house) are based in VA. In 1998-2000, I ordered from them several items which arrived directly from Moscow. It usually takes 2-4 weeks. Paid with Visa. No problems so far. Alex Ushakov ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charles Price" To: Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 10:49 AM Subject: russian amazon.com > Can anyone recommend/advise on a Russian online > bookshop that delivers internationally and can be > trusted to take credit card details? > > TIA > Charles > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. > http://im.yahoo.com/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Sun Sep 24 17:22:44 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 13:22:44 -0400 Subject: russian amazon.com Message-ID: >Can anyone recommend/advise on a Russian online >bookshop that delivers internationally and can be >trusted to take credit card details? kniga.com ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From slayman at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sun Sep 24 18:16:09 2000 From: slayman at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Rachel Platonov) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:16:09 -0400 Subject: russian amazon.com In-Reply-To: <007501c02649$0006fd20$9949fea9@compaq> Message-ID: I HAVE had problems with www.russianstory.com: very slow service (several weeks slower than promised) and generally nasty and unhelpful people on the customer support line. This is just an FYI. on 9/24/00 1:00 PM, Alexander Ushakov at alexush at PAONLINE.COM wrote: > http://www.russianstory.com/RSClub/index.htm > > They (clearing house) are based in VA. In 1998-2000, I ordered from them > several items which arrived directly from Moscow. It usually takes 2-4 weeks. > Paid with Visa. No problems so far. > > Alex Ushakov > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Charles Price" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2000 10:49 AM > Subject: russian amazon.com > > >> Can anyone recommend/advise on a Russian online >> bookshop that delivers internationally and can be >> trusted to take credit card details? >> >> TIA >> Charles ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From polskym at GUSUN.GEORGETOWN.EDU Sun Sep 24 18:23:22 2000 From: polskym at GUSUN.GEORGETOWN.EDU (Marissa Polsky) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 14:23:22 -0400 Subject: russian amazon.com In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Maryland bookstore Kamkins now has online service - www.kamkin.com - I've ordered from them and they are fairly reliable. There is also Ozon, a Russian bookstore. I don't know too much about them, but they are fairly successful in Russia and use Cyberplat, a credit card defense system, so your credit card should be okay - www.ozon.ru. I'm pretty sure they are willing to ship abraod. Marissa ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From HWPickford at COMPUSERVE.COM Sun Sep 24 19:42:16 2000 From: HWPickford at COMPUSERVE.COM (Henry W. Pickford) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 15:42:16 -0400 Subject: Mac help? Message-ID: I have a G3 powerbook running OS 9, with cyrillic language kits installed, use IE 4.5 for Mac, yet cannot read russian webpages in any encoding I ring through using the pull-down "View" menu. I can use cyrillic in MS Word, so I know the fonts are installed and working correctly in that application at least. Can anyone help or recommend a website that can? Thanks. Henry ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Mon Sep 25 01:18:27 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 02:18:27 +0100 Subject: the two mirs Message-ID: I am afraid there is no 'scientific proof' in matters like this, especially before the introduction of printing when there were no dictionaries or means of encouraging standard spelling. It would be perfectly possible to find either or both spellings of mir in a manuscript in any of the several senses of the word without being able to draw any real conclusion as to whether the writer intended a semantic distinction. The two letters for i, like the two letters for z, had to be retained in Cyrillic because they were also numbers, and the Cyrillic numeral system more or less followed the Greek. Greek eta, from which the Cyrillic undotted i vos'merichnoe is derived graphically, meant 8; and Greek iota, from which the Cyrillic dotted i derived, meant 10. In numerical contexts (accounts, taxation, inventories, fines, trade etc.) it clearly mattered to use the right one. In all other uses both the i's and the z's were frequently interchangeable. Dotted i tended to be used before other vowels. The word mir in Church Slavonic and Old Russian, as far as I can discover, is normally spelled with an i vos'merichnoe in all senses in earlier texts (quite reasonably since they do seem to be etymologically the same), although the problem is complicated by the fact that many published editions of texts have silently normalized the spelling using the modern i. The Academy of Sciences in 1738 standardized the single dotted i as appropriate for use before vowels and i kratkoe - and specifically in the word mir in the sense of the cosmos. However, the practice must have already been common, since the first actual statement that mir = peace and mir = cosmos are to be distinguished by the use of the two i's appears to be in Ludolf, Grammatica Russica, Oxford, 1696, p. 9. Ludolf also quotes mir spelled with an izhitsa (yet another i letter, preserved mostly in words of Greek origin, with a value of 400), meaning myrrh, but this would only be a possible source of confusion in the obliques cases since its nominative is normally miro. My guess is that the distinguishing of the two mirs by spelling might well have come about through the strictly controlled printing house practices in 17th-century Muscovy. Any better explanation would be very welcome. Will Ryan > > Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger wrote: > > > the problem is of course, that this is just a possibility; it would be nice > > if we could have some scientific proof, i.e. an old text where mir is used > > both as society and as peace in a very practical sense, let's say a peace > > treaty, and is spelled the same in both instances. Has anyone an opinion at > > hand, from when the first text dates with evidently different spelling of > > both mirs (that is, not counting different spelling probably due to writing > > errors)? > > Another question: are there other words in Russian, which are ambiguous now, > > while they were distinct from each other as long as the i desjaterichnoe > > existed? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP Mon Sep 25 03:02:40 2000 From: yamato at YT.CACHE.WASEDA.AC.JP (Yoshimasa Tsuji) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 12:02:40 +0900 Subject: the two mirs In-Reply-To: <39CEA7E3.7651EF43@sas.ac.uk> (message from William Ryan on Mon, 25 Sep 2000 02:18:27 +0100) Message-ID: Well said. Just a remark of mine: The earlest scriptures seem to have distinguished monothongal I and the diphthongal II (ii, ei, oi) -- Greek words like apostle's names (e.g. Philippe) were spelt with the monothongal I while most of the Slavonic words seem to have been spelt with the diphthongal II. As far as the Russian language is concerned, the diphthongal II (usually written with a side bar between them as were so written IA, IE, IO) was very soon reduced to a monothong, thus lost its difference in sounds from the original monothongal I. The reason why I(H in graphic, 8 as number) survived instead of I(10) seems to have been the established status of the short I that we see today. I wonder how Peter the Great wanted to print the short I without using I(8). (Very likely the graphic J, as in Serbian and Macedonian, but I've never seen the graphic J in Russian text. Have you?) The graphic J never existed in Russia when the reform took place in 1913--1918. Cheers, Tsuji ------ When the oldest Russian text was found three weeks ago in Novgorod, the chief of the team said in a newspaper interview that they were confident of it because they found so many errors in the usage of jat'. It is interesting that i(10) was not mentioned. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dbpolet at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU Mon Sep 25 06:16:32 2000 From: dbpolet at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU (David B. Polet) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:16:32 -0700 Subject: russian amazon.com In-Reply-To: <007501c02649$0006fd20$9949fea9@compaq> Message-ID: Regarding using kamkin.com, I have had some problems with them in the past, losing orders that I placed over the internet or just not filling them unless I had pestered them a little. I have had much more success with kniga.com. David Polet ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tancockk at UVIC.CA Mon Sep 25 04:29:30 2000 From: tancockk at UVIC.CA (Kat Tancock) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:29:30 -0700 Subject: Mac help? In-Reply-To: <200009241542_MC2-B479-9CE0@compuserve.com> Message-ID: Hi, One thing I recommend, and this is a good thing to keep in mind when surfing in *any* non Latin language, is to check the font setting that has to do with letting the web site choose the fonts, or using your own as default. I don't have IE 4.5, but in IE 5, this option is in the preferences under "web content", and the option says "allow page to specify fonts". Try checking this box to the opposite of what you have, and it may show the fonts properly. In Netscape, there are three options at the bottom of the font section of the preferences; as with IE, try different options. One clue that this is the problem is that none of the encodings comes up with Russian characters. If you open a page and it looks like messed up Cyrillic, it's probably just a problem with the encoding you're using or your fonts. If all four encoding options come up with Latin letters, then try my suggestion above. Hope this helps, Kat > I have a G3 powerbook running OS 9, with cyrillic language kits installed, > use IE 4.5 for Mac, yet cannot read russian webpages in any encoding I ring > through using the pull-down "View" menu. > > I can use cyrillic in MS Word, so I know the fonts are installed and > working correctly in that application at least. > > Can anyone help or recommend a website that can? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tom.priestly at UALBERTA.CA Mon Sep 25 05:13:43 2000 From: tom.priestly at UALBERTA.CA (Tom Priestly) Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 23:13:43 -0600 Subject: "j" in Russian In-Reply-To: <200009250258.e8P2wJU29122@pilsener.srv.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Tsuji wrote: > The reason why I(H in graphic, 8 as number) survived instead of I(10) >seems to have been the established status of the short I that we >see today. I wonder how Peter the Great wanted to print the short I >without using I(8). (Very likely the graphic J, as in Serbian and >Macedonian, but I've never seen the graphic J in Russian text. Have you?) >The graphic J never existed in Russia when the reform took place in >1913--1918. Juraj Kriz^anic', who hailed from what 300 years later would be Yugoslavia, proposed the "j" grapheme when in Russian in the 1659s and 60s, to be used (more or less) for the phoneme /j/. His suggestions did not fall on receptive ears, and I think he finished up somewhere like Tobol'sk, where these revolutionary (and probably scandalous if not irreligious) ideas would not have a wide audience. I do not know if anyone echoed them -’ and in particular this one, which made a lot of sense! - later. His two books: Ob'jasn'enje vivodno o pisme^ slove^nskom, 1660 and Gramatichno izkazanje ob ruskom jeziku, 1661 - both using the "j" grapheme in their titles. Which is getting a long way from the "two mirs". +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ * Tom Priestly, Professor * Slavic & East European Studies * Modern Languages and Cultural Studies * University of Alberta * Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2E6 --------------------------------------------------------------- * telephone: 780 - 469 - 2920 * fax: 780 - 492 - 9106 * email: tom.priestly at ualberta.ca +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Mon Sep 25 10:07:51 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:07:51 +0100 Subject: Baratynsky Message-ID: Dear Seelangovtsy, A colleague has asked me to find out whether the Russian poet Baratynsky has been adequately translated into English and if so, could the reference of the publication be supplied? Thank you for any help, please reply off-list. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Mon Sep 25 10:10:46 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:10:46 +0100 Subject: the two mirs Message-ID: Dear Nikolaus, (See Nikolaus's query below) Maybe there is a pre-1918 study which will allow this (I don't have access to one). The problem with modern reference works, e.g. the "Slovar russkogo yazyka XI-XVII vv" is that there is only one head-word mir, in the modern spelling, and the two "I"s have been brought together throughout, so that comparison of historical citations of the usage of the two mirs is impossible using this dictionary. (It does however keep the Yat' and the hard sign.) The orthography of reprints of Preobrazhensky (originally 1910-14) has likewise been updated. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Elisabeth Ghysels To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: the two mirs Date: 24 September 2000 00:53 Dear Mr. Jameson, the problem is of course, that this is just a possibility; it would be nice if we could have some scientific proof, i.e. an old text where mir is used both as society and as peace in a very practical sense, let's say a peace treaty, and is spelled the same in both instances. Has anyone an opinion at hand, from when the first text dates with evidently different spelling of both mirs (that is, not counting different spelling probably due to writing errors)? Another question: are there other words in Russian, which are ambiguous now, while they were distinct from each other as long as the i desjaterichnoe existed? Greetings, Nikolaus Dr. Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger Spichtenberg 7 B 9681 Nukerke tel: **32 - 55 - 21 99 85 email: Nikolaus.Lutz at rug.ac.be or nld at yucom.be http://dreamwater.net/nikolaus/ -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]Namens Andrew Jameson Verzonden: zaterdag 23 september 2000 14:08 Aan: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Onderwerp: Re: the two mirs Dear Nikolaus, We are talking about Common Slavic, maybe pre-500 AD. I don't know what evidence the Baltic languages can offer, perhaps someone else can help here. May I suggest that we regard the words in question as capable of development through metaphor, and here my common sense (and years of working with the Russian language) suggests the following: Mir originates in Slavic with the meaning community (as still exists today, although no-one has mentioned this specifically in this particular debate). This was for the ancient Slavs their world, it was a small world, but in time the meaning was extended more widely. The mir represented the people with whom you were at peace, otherwise it wouldn't have been a community. As simple as that. Later, as literacy and written records appeared, ambiguities arose and people started spelling the world and peace meanings differently. Fortunately the alphabet at that time had two letters for the sound "i". (This was a fortunate accident due to the phonological development of Byzantine Greek, where differing vowel sounds had "fallen together", but the letters representing them were retained. As the Byzantine Greek alphabet was the basis of the Cyrillic alphabet, the redundant letters were retained in the Cyrillic alphabet of the period.) Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Mon Sep 25 10:23:40 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:23:40 +0100 Subject: russian amazon.com Message-ID: Panorama of Russia's latest list heading: ---------- From: Panorama of Russia To: Recipient list suppressed Subject: Catalog Supplement #191 Date: 25 September 2000 03:06 Issue #191, 24 September, 2000 PANORAMA OF RUSSIA specializes in non-fiction, predominantly reference publications from Russia and the New Independent States. These include books, periodicals, manuscripts, CD's and other electronic products from academic and commercial publishers. The fields we cover are philosophy and religion, government and politics, military and legal affairs, humanities, literary history and criticism, history, and social sciences. We can be found on the world wide web at http://www.panrus.com/, where we have our full catalog, including books and 3,000 periodicals. Our 2001 periodicals catalog can be found at http://www.panrus.com/periodic.htm. **************************************************************************** Panorama's lists are very informative and clear and they select only titles of academic worth. I have dealt with them from UK using credit card and found them absolutely reliable. I receive no benefit from this recommendation. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Charles Price To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: russian amazon.com Date: 24 September 2000 15:49 Can anyone recommend/advise on a Russian online bookshop that delivers internationally and can be trusted to take credit card details? TIA Charles ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From alesta at PHOENIXDSL.COM Mon Sep 25 13:35:42 2000 From: alesta at PHOENIXDSL.COM (E.R.) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:35:42 -0400 Subject: russian amazon.com Message-ID: FYI: >There is also Ozon, a Russian bookstore. I don't know too > much about them, but they are fairly successful in Russia and use > Cyberplat, a credit card defense system, so your credit card should > be okay - www.ozon.ru. I'm pretty sure they are willing to ship > abraod. I had an unpleasant experience with Ozon.Ru about a year ago. Two months after placing the order I was informed that the items were finally ready to be shipped. Around the same time Ozon also stated that in order to comply with Russia's postal size & weight regulations they had to split my order into 4 packages - an action that resulted in final shipping costs exceeding the cost of the books themselves. I cancelled the order, but Ozon refused to process a refund to my credit card, which they charged as soon as the order was placed. I didn't get the credit until about 6 months later, after following dispute procedures with the credit card company. Several of my acquintances have had to wait for 2-3 months to get their orders. Needless to say, I advise against Ozon. Kniga.Com is good when in quest for recent releases (these days they even feature excerpts, however typos-ridden they may be...), and they're willing to search their stock rooms for hard-to-find items. I haven't dealt with the following online but know they exist: Dom Knigi http://www.domknigi.com//default.asp? St. Petersburg Publishing House http://www.st-p.com/ Elena Rosenberg ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vandusen at ACTR.ORG Mon Sep 25 14:02:10 2000 From: vandusen at ACTR.ORG (Irina VanDusen) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:02:10 -0400 Subject: extension programs for Russian Message-ID: RussNet site offers Russian language-learning internet-based modules for users of different levels. To review (or use) them, please go to: http://www.russnet.org/online.html Hope it helps Irina Van Dusen, Publications Manager ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From HWPickford at COMPUSERVE.COM Mon Sep 25 14:19:19 2000 From: HWPickford at COMPUSERVE.COM (Henry W. Pickford) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 10:19:19 -0400 Subject: Mac help? Message-ID: Hi Kat, that did it! I unchecked the box, thereby not letting the website specify fonts, and changed my default fonts from Cyrillic(Windows) to Cyrillic(Mac). My IE crashes now on some Latin font pages, so I'll have to toggle that website-font-override switch, but otherwise things are definitely looking up. thanks very much for your help. best hwp -------------------- Begin Original Message -------------------- Message text written by Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list " Hi, One thing I recommend, and this is a good thing to keep in mind when surfing in *any* non Latin language, is to check the font setting that has to do with letting the web site choose the fonts, or using your own as default. I don't have IE 4.5, but in IE 5, this option is in the preferences under "web content", and the option says "allow page to specify fonts". Try checking this box to the opposite of what you have, and it may show the fonts properly. In Netscape, there are three options at the bottom of the font section of the preferences; as with IE, try different options. One clue that this is the problem is that none of the encodings comes up with Russian characters. If you open a page and it looks like messed up Cyrillic, it's probably just a problem with the encoding you're using or your fonts. If all four encoding options come up with Latin letters, then try my suggestion above. Hope this helps, Kat > I have a G3 powerbook running OS 9, with cyrillic language kits installed, > use IE 4.5 for Mac, yet cannot read russian webpages in any encoding I ring > through using the pull-down "View" menu. > > I can use cyrillic in MS Word, so I know the fonts are installed and > working correctly in that application at least. > > Can anyone help or recommend a website that can? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------- Internet Header -------------------------------- Sender: owner-seelangs at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Received: from cherry.ease.lsoft.com (cherry.ease.lsoft.com [209.119.0.109]) by sphmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) with ESMTP id JAA14388; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:32:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from peach (209.119.0.4) by cherry.ease.lsoft.com (LSMTP for Digital Unix v1.1b) with SMTP id <3.0017151E at cherry.ease.lsoft.com>; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 9:32:57 -0400 Received: from LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU by LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU (LISTSERV-TCP/IP release 1.8d) with spool id 4600273 for SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 05:31:31 -0400 Received: from priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net (fepout4.telus.net) by listserv.cuny.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1b) with SMTP id <2.003AAF7C at listserv.cuny.edu>; Mon, 25 Sep 2000 5:31:31 -0400 Received: from [216.232.88.40] by priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.11 201-229-116-111) with ESMTP id <20000925042238.IXBT4505.priv-edtnes12-hme0.telusplanet.net@[216.232.88.40] > for ; Sun, 24 Sep 2000 22:22:38 -0600 User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Message-ID: Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2000 21:29:30 -0700 Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list Sender: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list From: Kat Tancock Subject: Re: Mac help? To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU In-Reply-To: <200009241542_MC2-B479-9CE0 at compuserve.com> " -------------------- End Original Message -------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Mon Sep 25 08:59:56 2000 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 09:59:56 +0100 Subject: the two mirs Message-ID: Tsuji, On one point in your message: Peter's first intention was to abolish the i-vos'merichnoe (i.e. the modern Russian i). The Geometria printed in the 'civil alphabet' in Moscow in 1708 has only single stroke i's in all words, with no dot. I believe I have seen this in the variant j (but undotted) but can't find a specimen to quote you. This practice was soon abandoned - a 1710 alphabet book has the i-vos'merichnoe restored. Will Ryan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ahornjat at MAILDROP.SRV.UALBERTA.CA Mon Sep 25 14:53:59 2000 From: ahornjat at MAILDROP.SRV.UALBERTA.CA (Andrij Hornjatkevyc) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 08:53:59 -0600 Subject: the two mirs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 11:31 PM 09/22/00 +0200, you wrote: >Thank you for your very comprehensive answer. Does all this then mean, that >the Russian language has (had) a word for peace, and a different word for >world, society; and that all nice efforts to find a philosophical reason why >the Russian language has one word, that means peace as well as world, are >meaningless? >Kind regards, > >Nikolaus We must remember that homonymy is a phenomenon found probably in all human languages. Depending on the writing system, this can be a major or minor issue. So the sound(s) [mir] have two different meanings in Russian, "peace" and "world, society." The context almost always makes it rather clear which is meant. At some point, probably in post-Petrine times but I am not sure about that, some wit decided to use different spelling for the two meanings. Later, that orthographic distinction was obliterated. But whether one spells it MIPY MUP% (% for back jer), or MUPY MUP, logically it can only mean peace to the world, and not world to the peace. I do admit that spelling Vladimir with i-10 made it clear that he was a ruler of the world and not necessarily a peaceful ruler (i-8). Ask average Russians today to give the etymology of that name, and I suspect that the results may be 50% for world, and 50% for peace. Dr. Andrij Hornjatkevyc Associate Professor Canadian Institute of Modern Languages and Ukrainian Studies Cultural Studies 352 Athabasca Hall 200 Arts Building University of Alberta University of Alberta Edmonton, AB T6G 2E8 Edmonton, AB T6G 2E6 phone (780) 492-3765 phone (780) 492-0733 fax (780) 492-4967 fax (780) 492-9106 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From OgdenJ at GWM.SC.EDU Mon Sep 25 15:31:30 2000 From: OgdenJ at GWM.SC.EDU (Alexander Ogden) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:31:30 -0400 Subject: Conference: Future of Cultural Memory Message-ID: Posting for a colleague. Please direct inquiries directly to Dr. Meili Steele at the address below. Best wishes, Alex Ogden ―------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Conference February 14-17, 2002 The Future of Cultural Memory This conference will address issues at the intersection of cultural/literary study, political philosophy, and international relations. Possible topics include: the politics of history and memory, transitions to and from democracy, the public sphere, culture of/and globalization, Third World feminism, postcolonial legacies, narrative and identity, literature/culture and practical reason, cosmopolitanism, culture and citizenship. Completed papers by October 1, 2001 Papers should be no longer than twenty minutes Direct inquiries to: Dr. Meili Steele Comparative Literature Program University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 Steelem at sc.edu Dr. J. Alexander Ogden Visiting Assistant Professor of Russian and Comparative Literature Department of Germanic, Slavic, and East Asian Langs & Lits University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 (803) 777-9573 fax: (803) 777-0132 ogden at sc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brifkin at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Mon Sep 25 16:25:18 2000 From: brifkin at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 11:25:18 -0500 Subject: Heinle & Heinle 2nd Annual National Videoconference/WebCast Message-ID: The Heinle & Heinle VideoConference on mentoring foreign language TAs, Lecturers, and adjunct lecturers is in conjunction with the publication of the annual volume of the AAUSC (American Association of University Supervisors, Coordinators and Directors of Foreign Language Programs) Series in Issues in Language Program Direction, _Mentoring of Foreign Language TAs, Lecturers, and Adjunct Faculty_ in November 2000. The volume will be on display at the Heinle & Heinle booth at the ACTFL Conference. The volume features several articles by Slavists, including: Richard Robin, George Washington University, "Working with Lecturers and Part-Time Faculty: A Case Study of Russian in the National Capital Area" Patricia Chaput, Harvard University, "What Should We Be Looking For? A Language Instructor's Candidate Profile" Betty Lou Leaver, Independent Scholar (and Editor of the AATSEEL Newsletter), and Rebeccca Oxford, "Mentoring in Style" - Benjamin Rifkin, editor of the volume, Section Head for the Less Commonly Taught Languages for the AAUSC >Boston, MA September 15, 2000 > >Heinle & Heinle Publishers will be hosting their 2nd Annual National >Videoconference/WebCast on Wednesday October 25 from 3:00PM to 5:00PM EST. > >This year's topic is "Mentoring Foreign Language TAs, Lecturers, and Adjunct >Faculty." This topic will be discussed by Elizabeth Bernhardt from Stanford >University, Tom Blair from City College of San Francisco, Lara Lomicka >from Penn State University, Susan Navey-Davis from North Carolina State >University, and >Rebecca Oxford from the University of Maryland. > >To register for this free videoconference, logon to http://www.heinle.com. > >Heinle & Heinle is a specialized language publisher, dedicated to serve the >foreign language teaching profession by bringing the latest ideas to >Professors,Teaching Assistants, Lecturers, and Adjunct Instructors. -- Benjamin Rifkin Associate Prof., Slavic Dept., UW-Madison 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Dr. Madison, WI 53706 voice: 608/262-1623; fax: 608/265-2814; Director of the Russian School Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 voice: 802/443-5533; fax: 802/443-5394 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Mon Sep 25 18:46:09 2000 From: dumanis at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:46:09 -0400 Subject: the two mirs In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20000925085359.006d9484@pop.srv.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Andrij Hornjatkevyc wrote: ................ snip ................ > I do admit that spelling Vladimir with i-10 made it clear that he was a > ruler of the world and not necessarily a peaceful ruler (i-8). Ask average > Russians today to give the etymology of that name, and I suspect that the > results may be 50% for world, and 50% for peace. > I do not know the basis of your suspicion but the standard interpretation of "Vladimir" that they used to teach elementary and middle school students is from own/master the world. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From seej at VT.EDU Mon Sep 25 19:29:01 2000 From: seej at VT.EDU (Christopher J. Syrnyk) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 15:29:01 -0400 Subject: Whereabouts of Svetlana Kobets Message-ID: Dear Seelangovtsy, SEEJ is seeking the email address of Prof. Svetlana Kobets. If you are able to send the journal this info., please do so offline, and we would be very appreciative. Christopher Syrnyk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM Mon Sep 25 22:05:53 2000 From: kaunas4 at COMPUSERVE.COM (richard tomback) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 18:05:53 -0400 Subject: book offering Message-ID: I have the following for sale or trade a]an early slavic rsalter from rus-lunt b]the great war of bohdan xemelanycyi c]collected works of melitij smotryckyi d]the old rus kievan and galician - volhynian chronicles I prefer selling of trading the 4 books , if possible at one time best offer, all are in mint condition Richard ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jill.bain at STRATH.AC.UK Tue Sep 26 08:48:48 2000 From: jill.bain at STRATH.AC.UK (Jill Bain) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 08:48:48 +0000 Subject: Russian Amazon.com Message-ID: In response to the mail with the rather negative feedback about ozon.ru: I have used them quite regularly over the last year, and have had some minor problems - late arrival of books, them being unable to get hold of one or two books after they were ordered, but they now only debit cards when the order is sent out, so there has been one minor problem with my credit card, about which they were very apologetic, and which was sorted out immdiately. On the positive side, they have one HUGE advantage over all the other such sites I've come across - price. They charge the same price (Russian price) for the books etc whether you are Russian or foreign, and don't make you use courier services for delivery as a couple of the other Russian sites do. Everything they sent has arrived - and I use the Russian postal service, though they do offer other options. For a postgrad price and delivery costs are a major consideration. They also have a far larger range of goods, both in terms of the books and of video and music than any other such internet shop. Not perfect, but I'm still using them! Jill Bain -- Jill Bain Джил Бэйн Russian Division Department of Modern Languages University of Strathclyde in Glasgow jill.bain at strath.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From thebaron at INTERACCESS.COM Tue Sep 26 14:42:42 2000 From: thebaron at INTERACCESS.COM (baron chivrin) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:42:42 -0500 Subject: onegin the film Message-ID: dorogie seelangers has anyone seen the recent (i believe american) film called onegin? i am thinking of showing it to a class and wondering if it's a worthwhile version. spasibo za vashy retsenziyu. baron chivrin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU Tue Sep 26 15:42:55 2000 From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:42:55 -0400 Subject: onegin the film In-Reply-To: <200009261446.KAA28375@mail2.wheatonma.edu> Message-ID: >has anyone seen the recent (i believe american) film called onegin? I have mixed feelings about it; it is often visually gorgeous, looks authentic enough, and there are some fascinating scenes. (Onegin's careful dressing, including his corset; some perfectly played vicious society gossips). But it lacks any spark of passion, it's truly bloodless. Liv Tyler seems all wrong for Tatyana, though to be fair *any* flesh-and-blood Tatyana would collide with our imagined versions. All the Russians I know hate it ... Maybe some Russians have a more positive opinion? -FR Francoise Rosset phone: (508) 286-3696 Department of Russian fax: (508) 286-3640 Wheaton College e-mail: frosset at wheatonma.edu Norton, Massachusetts 02766 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU Tue Sep 26 16:19:50 2000 From: p0s5658 at ACS.TAMU.EDU (Pavel Samsonov) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:19:50 -0500 Subject: onegin the film Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francoise Rosset" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 10:42 AM Subject: Re: onegin the film > >has anyone seen the recent (i believe american) film called onegin? > > I have mixed feelings about it; it is often visually gorgeous, > looks authentic enough, and there are some fascinating scenes. > (Onegin's careful dressing, including his corset; some perfectly > played vicious society gossips). > But it lacks any spark of passion, it's truly bloodless. Liv Tyler > seems all wrong for Tatyana, though to be fair *any* flesh-and-blood > Tatyana would collide with our imagined versions. > All the Russians I know hate it ... Maybe some Russians have a more > positive opinion? > -FR There is some "kl'ukva" (false stereotyping, wrong portraying of Russia): for example, they play and sing "Oj, tsvetet kalina v pole u ruch'ja" - the song that was actually composed (I believe by Dunajevski) in the mid 1930's... This irritates. But I can say that on the whole the movie was made with love. Yes, some scenes are absolutely gorgeous. But the main problem is that Pushkin's poetry and its special beauty and chemistry which is sacred for most Russian is not translatable into any other form or art. Not into the movie format, even in its best form. pavel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From felt at UIUC.EDU Tue Sep 26 16:26:06 2000 From: felt at UIUC.EDU (Brian E. Felt) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 11:26:06 -0500 Subject: Mac help? In-Reply-To: <200009241542_MC2-B479-9CE0@compuserve.com> Message-ID: >I have a G3 powerbook running OS 9, with cyrillic language kits installed, >use IE 4.5 for Mac, yet cannot read russian webpages in any encoding I ring >through using the pull-down "View" menu. Another thing that might help would be to upgrade to IE 5.0. I've been running it on my OS 9 Cyrillicized iBook SE for months now and, having already configured as has been suggested (per Kat Tancock's message) I've enjoyed a much more stable browser than my IE 4.5 experience, especially with cyrillic sites. Brian Felt ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From krylya at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Sep 26 17:33:37 2000 From: krylya at HOTMAIL.COM (Rodney Patterson) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 17:33:37 GMT Subject: onegin the film Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I saw the film a few days ago. It takes some liberties with Pushkin's novel and ultimately fails to be greatly satisfying as art. The film version looses too much of the characters' motivation and background (Onegin's change of heart when he rediscovers Tatjana after her marriage, for instance, seems merely shallow and immature rather than suggesting the possibility of real regret for better reasons -- such as Onegin's finally growing up and finally perceiving Tatjana's real value as a human being). A number of important scenes are absent (Tatjana's dream being the most puzzling omission, since it could have been dazzling on film!). The characters failed to "come alive." However, I think it would be excellent in the classroom for the following reasons: it was made with profound love for Pushkin and his novel (many subtle touches that only someone well-versed in Pushkin's life and works would apprehend and appreciate); the sets, locales, costumes, dueling pistols, manners, music, dances, etc., are perfect and effective; and it saves enough of the original to give students a powerful introduction to Pushkin's work while tempting the better students to read the original. Rodney L. Patterson Associate Professor of Slavic Langauges and Literatures State University of New York at Albany rlp96 at cnsvax.albany.edu >From: baron chivrin >Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: onegin the film >Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 09:42:42 -0500 > >dorogie seelangers > >has anyone seen the recent (i believe american) film called onegin? i am >thinking of showing it to a class and wondering if it's a worthwhile >version. > >spasibo za vashy retsenziyu. > >baron chivrin > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. Share information about yourself, create your own public profile at http://profiles.msn.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jdingley at YORKU.CA Tue Sep 26 18:35:47 2000 From: jdingley at YORKU.CA (John Dingley) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 14:35:47 -0400 Subject: Sreznevskii Message-ID: Hi, If anyone has a copy (any edition) of Sreznevskii's Materialy dlia slovaria drevne-russkago iazyka po pis'mennym pamiatnikam that they want to sell, please contact me off-line. John Dingley ------------- http://whitnash.arts.yorku.ca/jding.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dr.elisabeth.seitz at T-ONLINE.DE Tue Sep 26 19:26:20 2000 From: dr.elisabeth.seitz at T-ONLINE.DE (Dr. Elisabeth Seitz) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:26:20 +0200 Subject: Conference announcement: IX. Treffen der JungslavistINNen in Wittenberg Message-ID: CONFERENCE ANNOUNCEMENT IX. TREFFEN DER JUNGSLAVISTINNEN IN WITTENBERG 29. September - 1. Oktober 2000 Martin-Luther-Universität Halle-Wittenberg for further information, see: http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/uni/nss/jungslav/domstran.html (German language) or http://www.uni-tuebingen.de/uni/nss/jungslav/slavhome.html (English language) Program: Freitag, 29. September 8.45-9.30 Robert Hammel (Berlin) : Zur Intonation gesprochener und geschriebener Texte 9.30-10.15 Dorothee Fehrmann (Leipzig) : Betrachtungen zur Prosodie und Informationsstruktur polnischer adversativer Konstruktionen mit Korrektur- vs. Kontrastinterpretation 10.15-10.45 Kaffeepause 10.45-11.30 Anke Levin-Steinmann (Leipzig): Überlegungen zum Sinn und zu den Erfolgschancen des "Ustawa o jezyku polskim" 11.30-12.15 Monika Wingender (Göttingen) : Sprachpolitik in Serbien 12.15-14.30 Mittagspause 14.30-15.15 Tanja Anstatt (Tübingen): Verb-Argument-Strukturen im erstsprachlichen Erwerb des Russischen 15.15-16.00 Horst Dippong (Hamburg): Fragmente einer deskriptiv-quantitativen Oberflächensyntax des Russischen(2) - Problemfälle: Parenthesen, Parzellierungen, prädikatslose Propositionen 16.00-16.30 Kaffeepause 16.30-17.15 Marion Krause (Jena): Konnotationen und kulturelle Konzepte in Stadt und Land: empirische Befunde aus dem modernen Russland Samstag, 30. September 8.45-9.30 Uwe Junghanns (Leipzig): Clitic Climbing im Tschechischen 9.30-10.15 Holger Kuße (Frankfurt a.M.): Angemessenheit als Maxime, Loben als Sprechakt und die Liturgie der Tschechoslowakisch-hussitischen Kirche 10.15-10.45 Kaffeepause 10.45-11.30 Ursula Doleschal (Wien): Das Phänomen der Unflektierbarkeit in den slavischen Sprachen 11.30-12.15 Andrea Scheller (Berlin): ? 12.15-14.30 Mittagspause 14.30-15.15 Elisabeth Seitz (Tübingen): Multidimensionale Registeranalyse auf der Basis ukrainischer und russischer digitaler Textcorpora 15.15-16.00 Edgar Hoffmann (Wien): Werbung - Sprache - Kultur 16.00-16.30 Kaffeepause ab16.30 "Wie weiter mit den JungslavistINNen?" Sonntag, 1. Oktober 8.45-9.30 Andreas Späth (Leipzig): Wahrheitsbedingungen und Informationsstruktur (im Vergleich der slavischen Sprachen mit dem Deutschen) 9.30-10.15 Thomas Daiber (Halle a.d. Saale): Die Metapher als Klassenprädikation ___________________________________________________________ Dr. Elisabeth Seitz Slavisches Seminar der Universität Tübingen Wilhelmstr. 50 D-72074 Tübingen Tel.: 07071-2978495 Fax: 07071-295924 e-mail: elisabeth.seitz at uni-tuebingen.de URL: http://homepages.uni-tuebingen.de/elisabeth.seitz/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Sarah.Hewitt at SIMONANDSCHUSTER.COM Wed Sep 27 01:30:06 2000 From: Sarah.Hewitt at SIMONANDSCHUSTER.COM (Sally Hewitt) Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 21:30:06 -0400 Subject: Russian Language Informant Message-ID: To Anybody Who's Interested, I am seeking a native speaker of Russian, living in the Boston area, to work with us in the writing of our Russian language instruction program. We produce the Pimsleur Tapes, a unique way to learn to speak foreign languages. Courses are taught by listening and responding to recorded conversations and directions on tapes, in 30-minute lessons. This person must be a native speaker of Russian, have experience in writing and/or editing Russian, have experience teaching the Russian language to adults, and be familiar with contemporary Russian, i.e., post-Soviet. The job would be to work with our staff writer, checking the script of the program for the tapes. The person would need to read through the existing script, and notice any mistakes in spelling, grammar, usage, etc., and give feedback. It would take about 30 hours, and could be done mostly at home, via correspondence with our person via e-mail or phone. The initial meeting / interview would be here at our office, as would another meeting or two. If after the interview we mutually agree that it's a good match, fees and possibly a contract will be discussed. We are located in Concord, MA, about a half an hour west of Boston and Cambridge. The MBTA commuter rail runs from Boston & Cambridge to Concord. If anybody is interested, they may e-mail me at Sarah.Hewitt at simonandschuster.com. I look forward to replies. Thank You, Sally Hewitt Producer Simon & Schuster Audio Pimsleur Language Programs 30 Monument Square Concord, MA 01742 (978) 369-7525 x245 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU Wed Sep 27 13:56:57 2000 From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 09:56:57 -0400 Subject: Onegin the film Message-ID: Pavel Samsonov was right about the "kliukva" in the film: > for example, they play and sing "Oj, tsvetet kalina v pole u ruch'ja" - the > song that was actually composed (I believe by Dunajevski) in the mid > 1930's. but slightly wrong about the date. The Isaak Dunaevskii song (with words by Mikhail Isakovskii) was written for the 1949 film _Kubanskie kazaki_. Bob Rothstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarich1hr at YAHOO.COM Wed Sep 27 14:21:31 2000 From: sarich1hr at YAHOO.COM (L. Saric) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 07:21:31 -0700 Subject: HANDBOOK FOR ALL SOUTH-SLAVISTS Message-ID: THE NEWEST INDISPENSABLE HANDBOOK FOR ALL SOUTH-SLAVISTS! HRVATSKI JEZI�NI SAVJETNIK, Institut za hrvatski jezik - Pergamena - kolske novine, Zagreb 1999 - the handbook for good use of the Croatian language - 1660 pages, 81 000 entries; format: 17 x 24 cm, hard cover, price: 99 US$ - for the first time the Croatian language is fully described on all levels - all existing Croatian dictionaries, grammars, ortographies have been used - every "might-be-problem" is considered (morphological, word formation, syntactical...) - this book unifies a few handbooks in its structure: the first part (350 p.) is problem oriented, PRACTICAL CONCISE GRAMMAR. The second part is a grammatical dictionary, ortographical dictionary, it contains all data from the monolingual dictionary and dictioanry of the loan words which are relevant for the standardization - there are solutions to all ortographical, syntactical, stylistic, verb government... and many other problems - complete elaboration of the morphology and accentuation, the changes of the accent in all forms of each word which is a entry are fully elaborated - "irregular inflections" are allways shown - the book deals with all cases where there is a possibility of confusion **************** Please forward this message to the libraries of the Slavic departments. To get more informations or to order the book please reply to this message. ***************** __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mfrazier at MAIL.SLC.EDU Wed Sep 27 15:30:50 2000 From: mfrazier at MAIL.SLC.EDU (frazier melissa) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:30:50 -0400 Subject: Theater Programs in Russia In-Reply-To: <20000927142131.34932.qmail@web9805.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear SEELangers, I have a beginning Russian student who is very interested in going to Russia on some sort of theater program -- ideally he'd actually like to study at the Moscow Art Theater. Do you know of any study abroad programs which offer that sort of focus? Are there theater institutes in Russia that accept foreign students? Because he is a sophomore, he would actually like to go after one year of studying Russian, although (on my advice) he is considering summer school. In any case, he would be far from fluent. I'd very much appreciate any ideas you have on this; please respond off-line to mfrazier at mail.slc.edu. Thank you, Melissa Frazier **************************** Melissa Frazier Literature/Russian Dept. Sarah Lawrence College 1 Mead Way Bronxville, NY 10704 (914)395-2295 mfrazier at mail.slc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Katherine.Lahti at MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU Wed Sep 27 16:07:52 2000 From: Katherine.Lahti at MAIL.TRINCOLL.EDU (Katherine Lahti) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:07:52 -0400 Subject: On finding a specialized study abroad program... In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.20000927113050.0077c73c@mail.slc.edu> Message-ID: >Dear all, > >Questions such as Melissa's regularly show up on the SECUSSA list >for study abroad professionals. I am on the list and have found it >very helpful in understanding the ins and outs of study abroad. Listserv Name SECUSS-L Description Sharing knowledge, information and perspectives for overseas educational opportunities with other professionals in the field Subscription Address Listserv at listserv.buffalo.edu Good luck Melissa! (Don't have any answers for your query, alas.) -Katherine Lahti >Dear SEELangers, > >I have a beginning Russian student who is very interested in going to >Russia on some sort of theater program -- ideally he'd actually like to >study at the Moscow Art Theater. Do you know of any study abroad programs >which offer that sort of focus? Are there theater institutes in Russia >that accept foreign students? Because he is a sophomore, he would actually >like to go after one year of studying Russian, although (on my advice) he >is considering summer school. In any case, he would be far from fluent. >I'd very much appreciate any ideas you have on this; please respond >off-line to mfrazier at mail.slc.edu. > >Thank you, > >Melissa Frazier > > >**************************** >Melissa Frazier >Literature/Russian Dept. >Sarah Lawrence College >1 Mead Way >Bronxville, NY 10704 >(914)395-2295 >mfrazier at mail.slc.edu > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gjahn at UMN.EDU Wed Sep 27 17:20:15 2000 From: gjahn at UMN.EDU (Gary R. Jahn) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 12:20:15 -0500 Subject: Novyj mir available Message-ID: Colleagues: In connection with our department's move to new offices it has become necessary to reduce the size of our collection of books on Slavic. We have available a reprint edition (University Microfilms, Ann Arbor, ca. 1966) of the journal Novyj mir. The volumes are bound in sturdy library buckram and represent a complete run of the magazine from January, 1925 through December, 1944. Libraries or individuals interested in this set should contact me off-list (gjahn at umn.edu) at their early convenience. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at HOME.COM Wed Sep 27 18:04:44 2000 From: ggerhart at HOME.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 11:04:44 -0700 Subject: Theater Programs in Russia In-Reply-To: <200009271643.JAA00084@mx8-rwc.mail.home.com> Message-ID: That student's interest in the theater is laudable, but to go there with only a year of Russian is incredible. When you don't know something, it's hard to realize how much territory that might cover. Genevra Gerhart http://www.members.home.net/ggerhart New email address: ggerhart at home.com 206-329-0053 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of frazier melissa Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2000 8:31 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Theater Programs in Russia Dear SEELangers, I have a beginning Russian student who is very interested in going to Russia on some sort of theater program -- ideally he'd actually like to study at the Moscow Art Theater. Do you know of any study abroad programs which offer that sort of focus? Are there theater institutes in Russia that accept foreign students? Because he is a sophomore, he would actually like to go after one year of studying Russian, although (on my advice) he is considering summer school. In any case, he would be far from fluent. I'd very much appreciate any ideas you have on this; please respond off-line to mfrazier at mail.slc.edu. Thank you, Melissa Frazier **************************** Melissa Frazier Literature/Russian Dept. Sarah Lawrence College 1 Mead Way Bronxville, NY 10704 (914)395-2295 mfrazier at mail.slc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jschill at AMERICAN.EDU Wed Sep 27 18:32:18 2000 From: jschill at AMERICAN.EDU (John Schillinger) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 14:32:18 -0400 Subject: Uncle Tom's Cabin in Russia? Message-ID: In the 1850's, Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin was performed on stages abroad. Does anyone know if it was performed in Russia, and if so, when and where? Thanks for your help! Please reply offline to John Schillinger ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Wed Sep 27 20:15:43 2000 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 16:15:43 -0400 Subject: onegin the film Message-ID: There's a recent British film but it hasn't got a distributor in the U.S. yet. It got very good reviews in Russia. E. Tall baron chivrin wrote: > dorogie seelangers > > has anyone seen the recent (i believe american) film called onegin? i am > thinking of showing it to a class and wondering if it's a worthwhile > version. > > spasibo za vashy retsenziyu. > > baron chivrin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From llt at HAWAII.EDU Wed Sep 27 20:48:11 2000 From: llt at HAWAII.EDU (Language Learning & Technology) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 10:48:11 -1000 Subject: LLT Volume 4, Number 2 NOW AVAILABLE! Message-ID: We are happy to announce that Volume 4, Number 2 of Language Learning & Technology is now available at http://llt.msu.edu. This is a Special Issue on "Literacies and Technologies" and was guest edited by Rick Kern. The contents are listed below. Please visit the LLT Web site and be sure to enter your free subscription if you have not already done so. Also, we welcome your submissions of articles, reviews, and commentaries for future issues. Check our guidelines for submission at http://llt.msu.edu/contrib.html Sincerely, Mark Warschauer, Irene Thompson, and Dorothy Chun, Editors Language Learning & Technology (http://llt.msu.edu) ***Feature Articles*** Changing technologies, changing literacy communities? Denise E. Murray, Macquarie University, Sydney, Australia Hypermedia, internet communication, and the challenge of redefining literacy in the electronic age Cameron Richards, Nanyang Technological University, Singapore Authenticity and authorship in the computer-mediated acquisition of L2 literacy Claire Kramsch, University of California, Berkeley Francine A'Ness, Dartmouth College Wan Shun Eva Lam, University of California, Berkeley New technologies, new literacies: Focus discipline research and ESL learning communities Loretta Kasper, Kingsborough Community College The role of tasks in promoting intercultural learning in electronic learning networks Andreas Müller-Hartmann, University of Giessen, Germany ***Columns*** From the Editors: Welcome to LLT by Mark Warschauer, Irene Thompson, & Dorothy Chun From the Guest Editor: Introducing This Issue by Rick Kern On the Net - Literacy: Reading on the Net by Jean W. LeLoup & Robert Ponterio Emerging Technologies - Literacies and Technology Tools/Trends by Bob Godwin-Jones Announcements: News from Sponsoring Organizations ***Reviews*** Edited by Jennifer Leeman Call: Media, Design, & Applications, Keith Cameron (Ed.) Reviewed by Mike Ledgerwood Virtual ConversationsTM Language Programs: Roberto's Restaurant CD-ROM, Interactive Drama, Inc., Publishers Reviewed by Robert Blake Easy Writer, Jane Boris Reviewed by Pamela Couch ***Call for Papers*** Theme: Technology and Teacher Education ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From askeown at YAHOO.COM Thu Sep 28 04:08:21 2000 From: askeown at YAHOO.COM (Anne Keown) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 21:08:21 -0700 Subject: Slovak Message-ID: Dear SEELANGS, Could someone please suggest a good program to study Slovak in Slovakia for summer 2001? Please reply to askeown at yahoo.com Thank you, Anne Keown UNC-CH __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free! http://photos.yahoo.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mfrazier at MAIL.SLC.EDU Thu Sep 28 13:27:57 2000 From: mfrazier at MAIL.SLC.EDU (frazier melissa) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 09:27:57 -0400 Subject: Theater Programs in Russia In-Reply-To: <39D2556F.9EDC8328@acsu.buffalo.edu> Message-ID: Dear SEELangers, I want to thank everyone who has responded to my query about theater programs in Russia so far -- a number of people mentioned the program at MKhaT through Connecticut College, which I think is probably exactly what my student wants. People have also mentioned getting actual theater degrees in Russia, for example at GITIS, which is probably beyond my student's language abilities; still, if any one has specific contact information for GITIS (or other Russian institutes), I'd very much appreciate it if they could pass them on to me. Thank you again -- you've been very, very helpful! Melissa mfrazier at mail.slc.edu **************************** Melissa Frazier Literature/Russian Dept. Sarah Lawrence College 1 Mead Way Bronxville, NY 10704 (914)395-2295 mfrazier at mail.slc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From HKhan at MAIL.COLGATE.EDU Thu Sep 28 20:58:16 2000 From: HKhan at MAIL.COLGATE.EDU (Halimur Khan) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 16:58:16 -0400 Subject: Interpreters Needed Message-ID: Dear Dr. Visson: My name is Halimur Khan, and I am interested to work as a simultaneous interpreter as described in your following message. I speak Bengali (my native language), Russian, English and some French. I was trained at the Moscow Linguistic University (formerly known as the Foreign language Institute) as a simultaneous translator of Russian-French-English, and received an M.A. after six years of school. I have a Ph.D. in Russian literature (from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor) and have been teaching Russian language and literature for the last twelve years at various U.S universities. Currently, i am teaching at Colgate University at Hamilton, New York. I would love to send you my cv, and any other document should you think that I can pursue this further. I thank you for your time. Sincerely, --Halimur Khan Assistant Professor of Russian Colagte University -----Original Message----- From: Lvisson at AOL.COM [mailto:Lvisson at AOL.COM] Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2000 11:50 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Interpreters Needed The United Nations Interpretation Service is seeking to hire simultaneous interpreters, both on a freelance and permanent basis. Candidates must have native English and excellent passive knowledge of both Russian and French or French and Spanish. An examination will be held in January. For more information (or to recommend possible candidates), please contact me at this e-mail (lvisson at aol.com). Please do pass this notice on to your colleagues in French and Spanish departments. With thanks for your assistance, Lynn Visson Staff Interpreter English Booth] United Nations ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From chekov at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Thu Sep 28 21:16:58 2000 From: chekov at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (B. A. Lugo De Fabritz) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 14:16:58 -0700 Subject: Poetry anthologies of the 80's In-Reply-To: <01020B7EC4B7D311BE2E00508B6F7C1C01A9D7D2@mailsv06.colgate.edu> Message-ID: Hello. My name is Amarilis, and I am a graduate student at University of Washington. I was wondering if anyone could recommend interesting poetry Russian poetry anthologies from the last twenty years. Thanks B. Amarilis Lugo de Fabritz _______________________________________________ B. Amarilis Lugo de Fabritz, MAIS, Ph.C. Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Washington ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vac10 at COLUMBIA.EDU Thu Sep 28 22:17:44 2000 From: vac10 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Vitaly A. Chernetsky) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 18:17:44 -0400 Subject: Poetry anthologies of the 80's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Sep 2000, B. A. Lugo De Fabritz wrote: > Hello. > > My name is Amarilis, and I am a graduate student at University of > Washington. > > I was wondering if anyone could recommend interesting poetry Russian > poetry anthologies from the last twenty years. > > Thanks > B. Amarilis Lugo de Fabritz > > _______________________________________________ > B. Amarilis Lugo de Fabritz, MAIS, Ph.C. > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Washington Dear Amarilis, deer SEELANGERs, Not to engage in self-promotion, but a comprehensive anthology entitled _Crossing Centuries: The New Generation in Russian Poetry_, co-edited by John High, Vitaly Chernetsky, Thomas Epstein, Lyn Hejinian, Patrick Henry, Jerald Janecek & Laura Weeks, has just been published, by Talisman House Press. Unfortunately due to its size (over 500 pages) it is in English only. A bilingual anthology, _In The Grip of Strange Thoughts: Russian Poetry in a New Era_, edited by J. Kates, was published last year by Zephyr Press. There are also a few earlier anthologies, published in the first half of the 1990s. Sincerely, Vitaly Chernetsky -------------------------------------------------------------------- Vitaly A. Chernetsky tel. (212) 854-5580 (office) Assistant Professor 854-3941 (dept.) Department of Slavic Languages fax (212) 854-5009 715 Hamilton Hall e-mail: vac10 at columbia.edu Columbia University, New York, NY 10027 -------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Lvisson at AOL.COM Fri Sep 29 00:49:55 2000 From: Lvisson at AOL.COM (Lvisson at AOL.COM) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2000 20:49:55 EDT Subject: Interpreters Needed Message-ID: Dear Mr. Khan, Thank you for your inquiry. I am forwarding it to the appropriate persons at the UN. Sincerely, Lynn Visson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH Fri Sep 29 09:49:52 2000 From: Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH (Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:49:52 +0200 Subject: the two mirs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Andrij Hornjatkevyc wrote: >............... >snip >............... >> I do admit that spelling Vladimir with i-10 made it clear that he was a >> ruler of the world and not necessarily a peaceful ruler (i-8). Ask average >> Russians today to give the etymology of that name, and I suspect that the >> results may be 50% for world, and 50% for peace. >> >I do not know the basis of your suspicion but the standard interpretation >of "Vladimir" that they used to teach elementary and middle school >students is from own/master the world. > >Sincerely, > >Edward Dumanis > The etymology of Vladimir / Wolodimierz is the German surname Voldemar, so Vladimir has nothing to do neither with peace nor with world. Folk etymology is a dangerous game. Patrick SERIOT ___Patrick SERIOT_________________________ ___Faculte des Lettres_______________________ ___Langues slaves-BFSH2-UNIL________________ ___CH-1015_LAUSANNE_____________________ ___Tel_+41_21_692_30_01_________________ ___Fax_+41_21_692_29_35_________________ ___e-mail_Patrick.Seriot at slav.unil.ch__________ ___http://www.unil.ch/slav/ling______________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yhowell at RICHMOND.EDU Fri Sep 29 13:40:02 2000 From: yhowell at RICHMOND.EDU (Yvonne Howell) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 09:40:02 -0400 Subject: Poetry anthologies of the 80's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Amarilis, Try Contemporary Russian Poetry, selected, with an introduction, translations and notes by Gerald S. Smith (Indiana University Press, 1993) Yvonne Yvonne Howell Associate Professor of Russian Dept. of Modern Languages and Literature 28 Westhampton Way University of Richmond, Va. 23173 yhowell at richmond.edu (804) 289-8101 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From denis at DA2938.SPB.EDU Fri Sep 29 13:41:49 2000 From: denis at DA2938.SPB.EDU (Denis Akhapkine) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 17:41:49 +0400 Subject: Reforma orfografii Message-ID: Zdravstvujte, uvazhaemye kollegi. V "Russkom Zhurnale" opublikova(n/nn)a interesnaja diskussionnaja statja Tatjany Bazzhinoj ob orfograficheskoj reforme: http://russ.ru/ist_sovr/sumerki/20000929_baz.html Dumaju, chto eta tema interesuet mnogih. Denis Akhapkine phone +7 (812) 552-9750 (home) Department of Russian Language e-mail denis at da2938.spb.edu Faculty of Philology www.ruthenia.ru/hyperboreos Saint-Petersburg State University Universitetskaya nab. 11 Saint-Petersburg 199034, Russia ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Fri Sep 29 14:18:25 2000 From: a.jameson at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 15:18:25 +0100 Subject: the two mirs Message-ID: 99% of the population neither know nor care about the etymology of the words they are using. It is the etymology that is ascribed to a word that is of cultural significance. In the case of Valdemar, the name was re-etymologised in the course of transmission from Germanic to Slavic. It is a pity that a distinction is not always made between two different types of folk etymology. One is the imagined etymology dreamed up by the amateur philologist in his/her study, writing books or articles. The second, and more interesting, is the instinctive application by the native-speaker of their language intuition to unknown (perhaps foreign or archaic) lexis and the re-etymologisation which then sometimes results. Andrew Jameson Chair, Russian Committee, ALL Languages and Professional Development 1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK Tel: 01524 32371 (+44 1524 32371) ---------- From: Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: the two mirs Date: 29 September 2000 10:49 >I do not know the basis of your suspicion but the standard interpretation >of "Vladimir" that they used to teach elementary and middle school >students is from own/master the world. Edward DUMANIS dumanis at acsu.buffalo.edu The etymology of Vladimir / Wolodimierz is the German surname Voldemar, so Vladimir has nothing to do neither with peace nor with world. Folk etymology is a dangerous game. Patrick SERIOT e-mail_Patrick.Seriot at slav.unil.ch http://www.unil.ch/slav/ling ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Fri Sep 29 14:18:50 2000 From: dumanis at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 10:18:50 -0400 Subject: the two mirs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Sep 2000 Patrick.Seriot at SLAV.UNIL.CH wrote: > >On Mon, 25 Sep 2000, Andrij Hornjatkevyc wrote: > >............... > >snip > >............... > >> I do admit that spelling Vladimir with i-10 made it clear that he was a > >> ruler of the world and not necessarily a peaceful ruler (i-8). Ask average > >> Russians today to give the etymology of that name, and I suspect that the > >> results may be 50% for world, and 50% for peace. > >> > >I do not know the basis of your suspicion but the standard interpretation > >of "Vladimir" that they used to teach elementary and middle school > >students is from own/master the world. > > > >Sincerely, > > > >Edward Dumanis > > > The etymology of Vladimir / Wolodimierz is the German surname Voldemar, so > Vladimir has nothing to do neither with peace nor with world. Folk > etymology is a dangerous game. > Patrick SERIOT > I am wondering then what etimology you would attach to Vladislav, or (Serbian) Ljubomir. The existance of the whole nest of the Slavic names (with seemingly obvious morphemas) questions the idea of the origin from Voldemar. Could it be vice versa? Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Fri Sep 29 15:30:24 2000 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:30:24 -0400 Subject: the two mirs Message-ID: Edward Dumanis wrote: >I am wondering then what etimology you would attach to Vladislav, or >(Serbian) Ljubomir. The existance of the whole nest of the Slavic names >(with seemingly obvious morphemas) questions the idea of the origin >from Voldemar. Could it be vice versa? There is also Radomir, Bulgarian Blagomir, Czech Jaromir (and probably others) and let's not forget Velemir. ************************************************************** Alina Israeli LFS, American University phone: (202) 885-2387 4400 Mass. Ave., NW fax: (202) 885-1076 Washington, DC 20016 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Fri Sep 29 15:45:53 2000 From: dumanis at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 11:45:53 -0400 Subject: the two mirs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Sep 2000, Alina Israeli wrote: > Edward Dumanis wrote: > > >I am wondering then what etimology you would attach to Vladislav, or > >(Serbian) Ljubomir. The existance of the whole nest of the Slavic names > >(with seemingly obvious morphemas) questions the idea of the origin > >from Voldemar. Could it be vice versa? > > There is also Radomir, Bulgarian Blagomir, Czech Jaromir (and probably > others) and let's not forget Velemir. > You can add also Krasimir, Miroslav, and so on. Also, compare with Vsevolod from volodet' vsem. Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gorny at RUSS.RU Fri Sep 29 16:28:34 2000 From: gorny at RUSS.RU (Eugene Gorny) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 20:28:34 +0400 Subject: Poetry anthologies of the 80's In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 29.09.00, 1:16 Amarilis wrote: BALDF> I was wondering if anyone could recommend interesting poetry BALDF> Russian poetry anthologies from the last twenty years. The is a great anthology of "Nonoficial Poetry" at RVB site http://www.rvb.ru/np/ It's wider in its chronological scope but maybe it can be of some use for you. Eugene Gorny Director, Russian Virtual Library ---------------------------------- http://www.zhurnal.ru/staff/gorny/ http://www.rvb.ru ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From townsend at PRINCETON.EDU Fri Sep 29 20:06:43 2000 From: townsend at PRINCETON.EDU (Charles E. Townsend) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2000 16:06:43 -0400 Subject: Job Announcement - Princeton University Message-ID: PRINCETON UNIVERSITY - Assistant Professor in Czech and/or Polish Tenure track Assistant Professorship in Czech and/or Polish language, with additional specialization in either literature or linguistics. Review of applications begins on December 1, 2000. We expect to interview candidates at AATSEEL in Washington. Send CV and three recommendations to: Prof. Charles E. Townsend, Chair, Department of Slavic Languages & Literatures, Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544. Princeton University is an equal opportunity - affirmative action employer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Sep 30 02:40:40 2000 From: a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM (Alex) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 06:40:40 +0400 Subject: Reforma orfografii Message-ID: Денис! Спасибо за интересную информацию! Александр Стратиенко ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Sat Sep 30 22:53:46 2000 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 23:53:46 +0100 Subject: John and Carol Garrard Message-ID: Can anyone give me their email address - the writers of The Bones of Berdichev? Robert Chandler ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://members.home.net/lists/seelangs/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------