the two mirs

[Andrew Jameson]

Dear Nikolaus,

(See Nikolaus's query below)
Maybe there is a pre-1918 study which will allow this (I don't have
access to one).
The problem with modern reference works, e.g. the "Slovar russkogo
yazyka XI-XVII vv" is that there is only one head-word mir, in the modern
spelling, and the two "I"s have been brought together throughout, so that
comparison of historical citations of the usage of the two mirs is impossible
using this dictionary. (It does however keep the Yat' and the hard sign.)
The orthography of reprints of Preobrazhensky (originally 1910-14)
has likewise been updated.

Andrew Jameson
Chair, Russian Committee, ALL
Languages and Professional Development
1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK
Tel: 01524 32371  (+44 1524 32371)

----------
From: Elisabeth Ghysels <ElisabethG at YUCOM.BE>
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
Subject: the two mirs
Date: 24 September 2000 00:53

Dear Mr. Jameson,

the problem is of course, that this is just a possibility; it would be nice
if we could have some scientific proof, i.e. an old text where mir is used
both as society and as peace in a very practical sense, let's say a peace
treaty, and is spelled the same in both instances. Has anyone an opinion at
hand, from when the first text dates with evidently different spelling of
both mirs (that is, not counting different spelling probably due to writing
errors)?
Another question: are there other words in Russian, which are ambiguous now,
while they were distinct from each other as long as the i desjaterichnoe
existed?

Greetings,

Nikolaus

Dr. Nikolaus Lutz-Dettinger
Spichtenberg 7
B 9681 Nukerke
tel: **32 - 55 - 21 99 85
email: Nikolaus.Lutz at rug.ac.be
or      nld at yucom.be
http://dreamwater.net/nikolaus/

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht-----
Van: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list
[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]Namens Andrew Jameson
Verzonden: zaterdag 23 september 2000 14:08
Aan: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
Onderwerp: Re: the two mirs


Dear Nikolaus,
We are talking about Common Slavic, maybe pre-500 AD.
I don't know what evidence the Baltic languages can offer, perhaps
someone else can help here.
May I suggest that we regard the words in question as capable of development
through metaphor, and here my common sense (and years of working
with the Russian language) suggests the following:
Mir originates in Slavic with the meaning community (as still exists today,
although no-one has mentioned this specifically in this particular debate).
This was for the ancient Slavs their world, it was a small world, but in
time
the meaning was extended more widely. The mir represented the people
with whom you were at peace, otherwise it wouldn't have been a community.
As simple as that.
Later, as literacy and written records appeared, ambiguities arose and
people
started spelling the world and peace meanings differently. Fortunately the
alphabet at that time had two letters for the sound "i". (This was a
fortunate
accident due to the phonological development of Byzantine Greek, where
differing vowel sounds had "fallen together", but the letters representing
them
were retained. As the Byzantine Greek alphabet was the basis of the Cyrillic
alphabet, the redundant letters were retained in the Cyrillic alphabet of
the
period.)

Andrew Jameson
Chair, Russian Committee, ALL
Languages and Professional Development
1 Brook Street, Lancaster LA1 1SL UK
Tel: 01524 32371  (+44 1524 32371)

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