From powelstock at ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU Thu May 1 11:29:40 2003 From: powelstock at ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 06:29:40 -0500 Subject: online translation Message-ID: Speaking of the Lingvo R-E, E-R online dictionary, anyone planning to make extensive use of one of these should also try out Multitran (www.multitran.ru), which I think is much better, especially for a translator. (It gives more alternative translations for any given word you enter, is the main thing.) Cheers, David David Powelstock powelstock at alumni.princeton.edu > -----Original Message----- > From: Chris Tessone [mailto:tessone at POLYGLUT.NET] Yandex's Lingvo > (http://lingvo.yandex.ru/) can help with that. > > Cheers, > Chris ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From powelstock at ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU Thu May 1 12:34:32 2003 From: powelstock at ALUMNI.PRINCETON.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 07:34:32 -0500 Subject: Kozlov: Thanks Message-ID: Many thanks to those who responded to my request for the Kozlov poem: Liza Ginzburg, Glen Worthey, and Angelina Ilieva. I've got the text now. Cheers, David David Powelstock powelstock at alumni.princeton.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lynne_debenedette at BROWN.EDU Thu May 1 20:16:05 2003 From: lynne_debenedette at BROWN.EDU (Lynne deBenedette) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 16:16:05 -0400 Subject: online translation and students Message-ID: In a related issue, I¹d be interested in seelangers¹ reactions to the following scenario: 1st year student writing a biography report on a famous Russian locates internet info in both Eng and Ru; student runs Russian version through a translation program; translation is horrid, but a sufficient number of words comes out close enough that the student can piece together what parts of the Russian render ideas expressed in the English version; student quotes considerable amounts from the site; student gets a native speaker fellow student to clean up endings. Resulting essay features language one would be surprised to see used consistently by a student in 3d year. Course policy is that students¹ written work must be their own, meaning they must be able to demonstrate command of whatever they put on paper. If a considerable percentage of the language doesn¹t seem typical for that student¹s writing, s/he comes in and reproduces the essay under controlled conditions. In this case course policy was invoked, and the student was able to cope with the controlled writing task reasonably well (to my great relief). The policy, of course, was meant to thwart attempts by heritage speakers to have a more literate relative dictate the essay to them. I haven¹t had this particular combination of circumstances occur before‹in a class of 14 that was the only essay containing so many constructions outside the student¹s normal range. Comments about use of online translation? Suggestions for policy? Lynne -- Lynne deBenedette Senior Lecturer in Russian Brown University / Slavic Languages 20 Manning Walk, Box E Providence, RI 02912 tel 401-863-7572 or 401-863-2689 fax 401-863-7330 lynne_debenedette at brown.edu SPRING 2003 Office Hours Tu 2.30-4; We 3.30-5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at ATTBI.COM Thu May 1 20:52:35 2003 From: ggerhart at ATTBI.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 13:52:35 -0700 Subject: online translation and students In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Lynne, It sounds as if this is an interesting way to teach writing and to enlarge vocabulary. You'd be doing the profession a service by listing sources for likely renditions. Of course, the student would be denied the joy of finding an ingenious device. Genevra Gerhart http://www.GenevraGerhart.com ggerhart at attbi.com (206) 329-0053 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Fri May 2 00:53:41 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 16:53:41 -0800 Subject: online translation and students In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >student gets a native speaker fellow student to clean up endings. >Course policy is that students' written work must be their own, meaning they >must be able to demonstrate command of whatever they put on paper. Item no. 1 seems to contradict item no 2. In a course where the students' skills are judged not solely the content it should be a no-no. -- __________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at ATTBI.COM Thu May 1 21:50:47 2003 From: ggerhart at ATTBI.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 14:50:47 -0700 Subject: online translation and students In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 1. You don't expect a first-year student to know of all the possibilities. 2. If all the students have access to the same information, then what matters is how well the device teaches Russian. Measurements can be made at another time, as they were in this case. Genevra Gerhart http://www.GenevraGerhart.com ggerhart at attbi.com (206) 329-0053 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vsem at RUSSIANEXPEDITION.NET Thu May 1 22:21:59 2003 From: vsem at RUSSIANEXPEDITION.NET (Yelena) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 02:21:59 +0400 Subject: Nikolai Rozhalin Message-ID: To: Margaret Anne Samu Answering your request I can send you the following information. Saying exactly there were only five members in "Obshchestvo Liubomudriia: prince Odoievskii, D. Venevitinov, N. Rozhalin, A. I. Koshelev and I. Kireevskii. Look, what Koshelev wrote in his notes. "The Christian teaching seemed to us suitable (kazalos prigodnym) for people mass (dlia narodnykh mass) only , but not for us, liubomudrov. We specially valued Spinoza, and we considered his works much higher then the Gospels and other Holy books. We gathered together in prince Odoevskii's house... He was the chairman, and D. Venevitinov talked more then others, we were excited by his speeches. These talks continued till December, 14 of 1825, when we have decided to quit our meetings, because we did not want to attract police's suspicions, and also because the political events captured all our attention. I vividly remember how prince Odoievskii gathered us together after this unhappy date, and with special solemnity put in fire the charter and protocols of our society of liubomudrovs" in his home fireplace. (The Notes of Alexander Ivanovich Koshelev. Berlin, 1884. P. 12) This is my translation and I am sorry for it. If you read in Russian I may send you the quotation in Latin transliteration. Of course, they all were Christians, otherwise they would not be able to enter Moscow State University, but they did not share very much the spiritual content of Christianity. It seemed to them too simple and old-fashion teaching. I am sure they all were interested in the aspect of German romanticism. Of course, you know that obshchestvo liubomudrov this was a secret (tainoie) obshchestvo. In 1822 all obshchestva (including philosophical groups) were forbidden. Being exact none of liubomudrov personally was a Decembrist. But the rebellion put the end of the society's existence. All of liubomudrovs were very close with Decembrists, for example prince Odoievskii was a good friend of his cousin A. I. Odoievskii, well-known poet and Decembrist. He published his almanac "Mnemozina" in cooperation with Decembrist Kiukhel'beker in 1824-1825. But he did not support political side of Decembrist movement. He wrote about this, if you are interested I may send to you some quotations. Slavophils were close towards liubomudry and participated in their sessions, but it was another group of people. As I know Rozhalin was not a Slavophil. Slavophils formed their ideology later. Sorry for a delay with this information, I was extremely busy with our folklore project - www.russianexpedition.net Best wishes, sincerely yours Dr. Yelena Minyonok - vsem at cityline.ru "Russian Folklore Expedition" Curator of Folklore Archive, Institute of World Literature (Russian Academy of Sciences) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret Anne Samu" To: Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 8:40 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] Nikolai Rozhalin > I am looking for information about Nikolai Rozhalin, who was a member of the Obshchestvo Liubomudriia in Moscow 1823-25. In particular, I would like to find out about his religious convictions. It would also be helpful to know whether he was involved with the Decembrists, and whether he was one of the Liubomudry who later became a Slavophile. > > Information is available about the more prominent members of the group, but I don't know how much I can assume about Rozhalin based on this -- how unified were they in their beliefs? I know they were especially devoted to Schelling, but were they interested in the aspect of German romanticism that tended toward religious revivalism? In other words, if it is possible to generalize, what was their attitude towards Christianity? > > Many thanks for your help. > > Yours, > Margaret Samu > Institute of Fine Arts > mas487 at nyu.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lynne_debenedette at BROWN.EDU Thu May 1 22:59:25 2003 From: lynne_debenedette at BROWN.EDU (Lynne deBenedette) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 18:59:25 -0400 Subject: online translation and students In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My own understanding of essay writing is that it ought to be a learning experience for the student as much as an opportunity for assessment, and I am not inclined to penalize learning. The issue is being able to verify that learning is indeed taking place. In this case there was the student's use of the word "sharashka"--occurring in the simple sentence "Potom on rabotal v sharashke"--and then of course the question becomes whether sharashka has any meaning for the essay-writer beyond "a noun in the prepositional case designating place of employment" (his Oxford dictionary would be of no help). It was therefore of use to know what English-lang. website had been read; I was able to confirm that the site gave the Russian word in italics and explained what it meant. I still told the student to look up more info about the word, but at least I knew it would have been understood to be more than just "where the guy worked". Lynne -- Lynne deBenedette Senior Lecturer in Russian Brown University / Slavic Languages 20 Manning Walk, Box E Providence, RI 02912 tel 401-863-7572 or 401-863-2689 fax 401-863-7330 lynne_debenedette at brown.edu SPRING 2003 Office Hours Tu 2.30-4; We 3.30-5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ad5537 at WAYNE.EDU Thu May 1 23:27:54 2003 From: ad5537 at WAYNE.EDU (Kenneth Brostrom) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 19:27:54 -0400 Subject: online translation and students In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You're absolutely right--some degree of learning is altogether different from the larcenous impulse behind simple plagiarism (to be sure, sometimes it is the result of overwhelming time pressures). But what you describe below is really an interesting case. Since you left WSU we've been getting more and more heritage speakers because of a large influx of Russian-speaking immigrants into the Detroit area. To be honest, the increase in the number of our majors is influenced by the number of heritage speaking students who are genuinely fluent and literate in Russian. They can test out of four years of Russian and then take care of the literature and culture requirements relatively quickly. For them it's a quick major (although not always easy, when they must confront Russian literature, often for the first time). They tend to use this as a second major in order to enhance their credentials as they try to enter professional programs. Anyway--this is what struck me: I wonder how many of them would know what "sharashka" means. Your note took me back to all the time I spent working on Solzhenitsyn during a different era. And I have two draft articles on him that I should get back to . . . I still think that he's a very important writer, who raised general human issues that both transcended the confines of the Cold War and placed that madness within the arena of recognizable human action and motivation. But I'm getting on my high horse ... >My own understanding of essay writing is that it ought to be a learning >experience for the student as much as an opportunity for assessment, and I >am not inclined to penalize learning. The issue is being able to verify >that learning is indeed taking place. In this case there was the student's >use of the word "sharashka"--occurring in the simple sentence "Potom on >rabotal v sharashke"--and then of course the question becomes whether >sharashka has any meaning for the essay-writer beyond "a noun in the >prepositional case designating place of employment" (his Oxford dictionary >would be of no help). It was therefore of use to know what English-lang. >website had been read; I was able to confirm that the site gave the Russian >word in italics and explained what it meant. I still told the student to >look up more info about the word, but at least I knew it would have been >understood to be more than just "where the guy worked". > >Lynne >-- >Lynne deBenedette >Senior Lecturer in Russian >Brown University / Slavic Languages >20 Manning Walk, Box E >Providence, RI 02912 >tel 401-863-7572 or 401-863-2689 >fax 401-863-7330 >lynne_debenedette at brown.edu >SPRING 2003 Office Hours Tu 2.30-4; We 3.30-5 > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Kenneth Brostrom Assoc. Prof. of Russian Dept. of German and Slavic Studies 443 Manoogian Hall Wayne State University Detroit, MI 48202 Telephone: (313) 577-6238 FAX (313) 577-3266 E-mail: kenneth.brostrom at wayne.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenka at UVIC.CA Fri May 2 06:55:14 2003 From: elenka at UVIC.CA (elenka) Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 23:55:14 -0700 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: Dear colleagues: I am trying to find precise information on Khrushchev's show banging in the UN Assembly. On Wednesday 12 October 1960, all national papers commented on Nikita Sergeyevich and his famous shoe banging. Apparently, Khrushchev protested the speech of the head of the Philippine delegation, Senator Lorenzo Sumulong. In anger, he called the senator "a jerk, a stooge and a lackey of imperialism." In the Russian version, though, the shoe banging, it seems, was accompanied by a wonderful idiomatic phrase "ia vam pokazhu kuzkinu mat." I would very much like to find out the English translation of this phrase. I mean, the version they used when they had to translate it in the UN. Since such a phrase is extremely difficult to translate, I wouldn't be surprised if they used literal translation - sth like "Kuzkin's mother." In this case, it would be also nice to learn how the phrase can be translated into idiomatic English. "I'll spit into your eye" is a possible translation but it does not really capture the comic aspect of the Russian phrase. Have you ever come across any useful information on this? Many thanks in advance. elenka at uvic.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kvsereda at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Fri May 2 07:52:07 2003 From: kvsereda at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Kirill Sereda) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 01:52:07 -0600 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <3EB22059@wm2.uvic.ca> Message-ID: I hear that the Russian translator, possibly trying to maintain decorum, opted for the cryptic literal "We will show you Cosmo's mother," which was later translated by others as "We will bury you." I wonder if "We'll fix your wagon!" would have been a good idiomatic equivalent. Kirill -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of elenka Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 12:55 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Dear colleagues: I am trying to find precise information on Khrushchev's show banging in the UN Assembly. On Wednesday 12 October 1960, all national papers commented on Nikita Sergeyevich and his famous shoe banging. Apparently, Khrushchev protested the speech of the head of the Philippine delegation, Senator Lorenzo Sumulong. In anger, he called the senator "a jerk, a stooge and a lackey of imperialism." In the Russian version, though, the shoe banging, it seems, was accompanied by a wonderful idiomatic phrase "ia vam pokazhu kuzkinu mat." I would very much like to find out the English translation of this phrase. I mean, the version they used when they had to translate it in the UN. Since such a phrase is extremely difficult to translate, I wouldn't be surprised if they used literal translation - sth like "Kuzkin's mother." In this case, it would be also nice to learn how the phrase can be translated into idiomatic English. "I'll spit into your eye" is a possible translation but it does not really capture the comic aspect of the Russian phrase. Have you ever come across any useful information on this? Many thanks in advance. elenka at uvic.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Vbelyanin at MTU.RU Fri May 2 13:18:14 2003 From: Vbelyanin at MTU.RU (Valery Belyanin) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 09:18:14 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <000201c3107f$bbf3bd70$0201a8c0@DH4FLF11> Message-ID: As far as I remember it should be not Cosmo's but Kuzma's mother KS> opted for the cryptic literal "We will show you Cosmo's mother," which Best regards, Valery Belyanin Editor of www.textology.ru ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From laurengl at PTWI.NET Fri May 2 13:47:08 2003 From: laurengl at PTWI.NET (Lauren Leighton) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:47:08 -0500 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <3EB22059@wm2.uvic.ca> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of elenka Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 1:55 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging The person to ask about UN interpretation is, of course, Lynn Visson. The tricky original phrase translated as "We will bury you" and subsequently touted by U.S. propaganda as proof of Soviet aggressiveness was said by Kh at another time. (If I recall correctly.) I've heard that the prhase should have been translated as "We will outdig you," or "...outshovel you," meaning that Socialism would overtake and surpass capitalism. Nabokov says that when an idiom or slang word or phrase cannot be translated, "A footnote will always do." Spasibo za vnimanie!. Dear colleagues: I am trying to find precise information on Khrushchev's show banging in the UN Assembly. On Wednesday 12 October 1960, all national papers commented on Nikita Sergeyevich and his famous shoe banging. elenka at uvic.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From anthony.j.vanchu1 at JSC.NASA.GOV Fri May 2 13:51:38 2003 From: anthony.j.vanchu1 at JSC.NASA.GOV (VANCHU, ANTHONY J. (JSC-AH) (TTI)) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:51:38 -0500 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: Actually, the "We will bury you" quote is from another incident which occured in Moscow, November 18, 1956. At that time, Khrushchev was speaking with Western diplomats. Clearly, the translation of this phrase in the West was purely literal and not given its proper cultural context (oversight or a symptom of the Cold War?). While not particularly a wish of good tidings, the idea behind "we will bury you," i.e., "we will outlive you," is a not quite as hostile as the literal translation . See below: Tony Vanchu Dr. Anthony J. Vanchu Director, JSC Language Education Center TechTrans International, Inc. NASA Johnson Space Center Houston, TX Phone: (281) 483-0644 Fax: (281) 483-4050 From: The Columbia World of Quotations. 1996. http://www.bartleby.com/66/52/32552.html NUMBER: 32552 QUOTATION: Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you. ATTRIBUTION: Nikita Khrushchev (1894-1971), Soviet premier. remark, Nov. 18, 1956, to Western diplomats, Kremlin, Moscow. quoted in Times (London, Nov. 19, 1956). Khrushchev later explained this remark as an idiomatic expression to mean "we will outlive you" (i.e. communism will triumph). On another occasion, Aug. 24, 1963, addressing a group of Westerners in Split, Yugoslavia, he referred to his controversial statement: "Of course we will not bury you with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you." -----Original Message----- From: Kirill Sereda [mailto:kvsereda at WORLDNET.ATT.NET] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 2:52 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging I hear that the Russian translator, possibly trying to maintain decorum, opted for the cryptic literal "We will show you Cosmo's mother," which was later translated by others as "We will bury you." I wonder if "We'll fix your wagon!" would have been a good idiomatic equivalent. Kirill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU Fri May 2 13:54:37 2003 From: pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (pjs) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 09:54:37 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was a student in Lynn Visson's 2nd-year Russian class when she taught at Columbia. She told us then that the phrase was "My vas pokhoronim". She said that this was best understood to mean "We will be at your funeral [when your system has expired and ours is triumphant]" It did not, she argued, have the aggressive ring of "We wiil bury you" with its implications of shovelling dirt over a still living body. Peter Scotto On Fri, 2 May 2003, Lauren Leighton wrote: > Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:47:08 -0500 > From: Lauren Leighton > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > -----Original Message----- > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of elenka > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 1:55 AM > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > > The person to ask about UN interpretation is, of course, Lynn Visson. The > tricky original phrase translated as "We will bury you" and subsequently > touted by U.S. propaganda as proof of Soviet aggressiveness was said by Kh > at another time. (If I recall correctly.) I've heard that the prhase should > have been translated as "We will outdig you," or "...outshovel you," meaning > that Socialism would overtake and surpass capitalism. Nabokov says that when > an idiom or slang word or phrase cannot be translated, "A footnote will > always do." Spasibo za vnimanie!. > > > > > Dear colleagues: > > I am trying to find precise information on Khrushchev's show banging in the > UN > Assembly. On Wednesday 12 October 1960, all national papers commented on > Nikita Sergeyevich and his famous shoe banging. > > > elenka at uvic.ca > > - > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM Fri May 2 14:09:00 2003 From: tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM (Timothy D. Sergay) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:09:00 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: Translations of pokazat' (dat' komu znat') Kuz'kinu mat': Lubensky's Random House R-E Dictionary of Idioms (M-54) does indeed list "X will fix Y's wagon" (also: "X will make it hot for Y; X will show Y who's boss). Kvselevich's R-E Phraseological Dictionary (p. 334) has "give smb. hot and strong; make it hot for smb.; give smb. what-for; show smb. a thing or two." Can anyone explain the etymology? Dal' relates Kuz'kinu to Kuz'ma (имя Козьма, в поговорках означает бедного, горького). Flegon's "Za predelami russkikh slovarei" has an entry for KUZ'KA: "mordovskii bog ?" Is it possibly anatomical, like "show you where the sun don't shine"? ----- Original Message ----- From: "VANCHU, ANTHONY J. (JSC-AH) (TTI)" To: Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 9:51 AM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > Actually, the "We will bury you" quote is from another incident which > occured in Moscow, November 18, 1956. At that time, Khrushchev was speaking > with Western diplomats. > > Clearly, the translation of this phrase in the West was purely literal and > not given its proper cultural context (oversight or a symptom of the Cold > War?). While not particularly a wish of good tidings, the idea behind "we > will bury you," i.e., "we will outlive you," is a not quite as hostile as > the literal translation . See below: > > Tony Vanchu > > Dr. Anthony J. Vanchu > Director, JSC Language Education Center > TechTrans International, Inc. > NASA Johnson Space Center > Houston, TX > Phone: (281) 483-0644 > Fax: (281) 483-4050 > > > > From: The Columbia World of Quotations. 1996. > http://www.bartleby.com/66/52/32552.html > > > NUMBER: 32552 > QUOTATION: Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury > you. > ATTRIBUTION: Nikita Khrushchev (1894-1971), Soviet premier. remark, Nov. 18, > 1956, to Western diplomats, Kremlin, Moscow. quoted in Times (London, Nov. > 19, 1956). > > Khrushchev later explained this remark as an idiomatic expression to mean > "we will outlive you" (i.e. communism will triumph). On another occasion, > Aug. 24, 1963, addressing a group of Westerners in Split, Yugoslavia, he > referred to his controversial statement: "Of course we will not bury you > with a shovel. Your own working class will bury you." > > -----Original Message----- > From: Kirill Sereda [mailto:kvsereda at WORLDNET.ATT.NET] > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 2:52 AM > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > > I hear that the Russian translator, possibly trying to maintain decorum, > opted for the cryptic literal "We will show you Cosmo's mother," which > was later translated by others as "We will bury you." I wonder if > "We'll fix your wagon!" would have been a good idiomatic equivalent. > Kirill > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Palacgw at TULSASCHOOLS.ORG Fri May 2 14:32:56 2003 From: Palacgw at TULSASCHOOLS.ORG (Palace, Gwendolyn) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 09:32:56 -0500 Subject: every program matters Message-ID: Could you write a letter to my Principal Dr. Boyles talking about the importance to keep HS Russian programs. I teach levels 1-6 and have been very successful with students passing the International Baccalaureate Russian Exam. Most of my students go on to study Russian at major universities. My enrollment has hovered around 25-30 and I have not been able to increase it. However during the time of current financial crisis and budget cuts, our Russian program is in danger. They are going to lump all my students in one class. Please write a letter in support so this may be adverted. It is vital that Russian 1 students NOT be lumped together with other more advanced students. IT is not fair to them or the other students. But then again, they may just eliminate the program altogether. Thank you *** This message is being sent via property belonging to Tulsa Public Schools and is subject to monitoring. Therefore, there is no expectation of privacy nor confidentiality regarding these communications. Gwen Palace Russian Language / World History Booker T. Washington High School 1631 E. Woodrow Place Tulsa, OK 74106 -----Original Message----- From: Benjamin Rifkin [mailto:brifkin at WISC.EDU] Sent: 04 March, 2003 8:09 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] every program matters Dear SEELANGers: An AATSEEL member at a small college wrote me in response to my previous message posted to this list. In part this individual wrote: >what about some programs which don't have high enrollments to boast >about and need real help from our profession? Your reply to Ms >Hutchinson is disappointing because it assumes that if the program has >small enrollments -- something is wrong with it. In case others in the field may have misunderstood my intention, I am writing again to the SEELANGs list to clarify: I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I did not mean to disregard the importance of smaller programs. I was responding to Jill's message and the implication that enrollments were the basis for the decision of the university administration to eliminate the program. For that reason alone, I was looking for stories of increasing enrollments to encourage the administration to see that Russian could be grown. In the case of smaller schools, ... smaller enrollments are to be expected. I would hope that an enlighted administration would understand the value of having a Russian program in place even when enrollments may be small or when there are few majors or minors. As President of AATSEEL, I am ready to help ANY AATSEEL member make arguments to his/her institutional administration to advance the cause of the study of Slavic languages and cultures, regardless of the size of the institution or program. Although I myself teach at a large research university in the context of a Slavic Department with over 60 majors, I am personally and professionally committed to doing what I can to help any and every Slavic program that I can. We are a field that is prone to significant fluctuations in enrollments (for all kinds of reasons) and I believe I speak on behalf of all of AATSEEL when I say that EVERY Slavic language and literature program matters. If there's anything I can do to help you or your program, please let me know. Sincerely, Ben Rifkin -- ================= Benjamin Rifkin Professor of Slavic Languages, Slavic Dept., UW-Madison 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Dr. Madison, WI 53706 USA voice: 608/262-1623; fax: 608/265-2814 http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/slavic/rifkin/ Director of the Russian School Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 voice: 802/443-5533; fax: 802/443-5394 http://www.middlebury.edu/~ls/russian/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vsem at RUSSIANEXPEDITION.NET Fri May 2 14:40:37 2003 From: vsem at RUSSIANEXPEDITION.NET (Yelena) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 18:40:37 +0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: Sorry, I disagree. "My vas zakopaem" sounds quite aggressive. "Kuzkina mat'" is a euphemism for another rude expression which is usually used with a bawdy word (maternoie vyrazhenie). This expression still exists in many Southern villages. It is used when somebody seriously wants to threaten another person. Both expressions sound very rude for a Russian ear and quite aggressive. Thank you Sincerely yours, Yelena Minyonok ----- Original Message ----- From: "pjs" To: Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 5:54 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > I was a student in Lynn Visson's 2nd-year Russian class when she taught at > Columbia. She told us then that the phrase was "My vas pokhoronim". She > said that this was best understood to mean "We will be at your funeral > [when your system has expired and ours is triumphant]" It did not, she > argued, have the aggressive ring of "We wiil bury you" with its > implications of shovelling dirt over a still living body. > > Peter Scotto > > > On Fri, 2 May 2003, Lauren Leighton wrote: > > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:47:08 -0500 > > From: Lauren Leighton > > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > > > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of elenka > > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 1:55 AM > > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > > Subject: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > > > > > The person to ask about UN interpretation is, of course, Lynn Visson. The > > tricky original phrase translated as "We will bury you" and subsequently > > touted by U.S. propaganda as proof of Soviet aggressiveness was said by Kh > > at another time. (If I recall correctly.) I've heard that the prhase should > > have been translated as "We will outdig you," or "...outshovel you," meaning > > that Socialism would overtake and surpass capitalism. Nabokov says that when > > an idiom or slang word or phrase cannot be translated, "A footnote will > > always do." Spasibo za vnimanie!. > > > > > > > > > > Dear colleagues: > > > > I am trying to find precise information on Khrushchev's show banging in the > > UN > > Assembly. On Wednesday 12 October 1960, all national papers commented on > > Nikita Sergeyevich and his famous shoe banging. > > > > > > elenka at uvic.ca > > > > - > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sccampbe at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri May 2 15:05:20 2003 From: sccampbe at UCHICAGO.EDU (Sharon Knox) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:05:20 -0500 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <001a01c310b8$f4e04070$5005f8d4@ss> Message-ID: How about checking the New York Times's archive for the translator's rendition? (You can also buy a copy of the photo of Khrushchev banging his shoe from their online store!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU Fri May 2 15:09:41 2003 From: pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (pjs) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:09:41 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <001a01c310b8$f4e04070$5005f8d4@ss> Message-ID: My vas zakopaem is aggressive, but Khrushchev is supposed to have said "My vas pokhoronim". No? On Fri, 2 May 2003, Yelena wrote: > Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 18:40:37 +0400 > From: Yelena > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > Sorry, I disagree. "My vas zakopaem" sounds quite aggressive. "Kuzkina > mat'" is a euphemism for another rude expression which is usually used with > a bawdy word (maternoie vyrazhenie). This expression still exists in many > Southern villages. It is used when somebody seriously wants to threaten > another person. Both expressions sound very rude for a Russian ear and quite > aggressive. Thank you > > Sincerely yours, Yelena Minyonok > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "pjs" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 5:54 PM > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > > > I was a student in Lynn Visson's 2nd-year Russian class when she taught at > > Columbia. She told us then that the phrase was "My vas pokhoronim". She > > said that this was best understood to mean "We will be at your funeral > > [when your system has expired and ours is triumphant]" It did not, she > > argued, have the aggressive ring of "We wiil bury you" with its > > implications of shovelling dirt over a still living body. > > > > Peter Scotto > > > > > > On Fri, 2 May 2003, Lauren Leighton wrote: > > > > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:47:08 -0500 > > > From: Lauren Leighton > > > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > > > > > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > > > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of elenka > > > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 1:55 AM > > > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > > > Subject: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > > > > > > > > The person to ask about UN interpretation is, of course, Lynn Visson. > The > > > tricky original phrase translated as "We will bury you" and subsequently > > > touted by U.S. propaganda as proof of Soviet aggressiveness was said by > Kh > > > at another time. (If I recall correctly.) I've heard that the prhase > should > > > have been translated as "We will outdig you," or "...outshovel you," > meaning > > > that Socialism would overtake and surpass capitalism. Nabokov says that > when > > > an idiom or slang word or phrase cannot be translated, "A footnote will > > > always do." Spasibo za vnimanie!. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear colleagues: > > > > > > I am trying to find precise information on Khrushchev's show banging in > the > > > UN > > > Assembly. On Wednesday 12 October 1960, all national papers commented on > > > Nikita Sergeyevich and his famous shoe banging. > > > > > > > > > elenka at uvic.ca > > > > > > - > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brewerm at U.LIBRARY.ARIZONA.EDU Fri May 2 15:35:28 2003 From: brewerm at U.LIBRARY.ARIZONA.EDU (Brewer, Michael) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 08:35:28 -0700 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: All, The London Times covers this on Monday, Nov 19, 1956; pg. 8; Issue 53692 The NYT on Nov 24 (WILLIAM M. BLAIR Special to The New York Times.; New York Times (1857-Current file), New York, N.Y.; Nov 24, 1956; pg. 3, 1 pgs) Mb Michael Brewer German & Slavic Studies Librarian University of Arizona Library, A210 1510 E. University P.O. Box 210055 Tucson, AZ 85721-0055 Fax 520.621.9733 Voice 520.481.2193 brewerm at u.library.arizona.edu -----Original Message----- From: Sharon Knox [mailto:sccampbe at UCHICAGO.EDU] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 8:05 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging How about checking the New York Times's archive for the translator's rendition? (You can also buy a copy of the photo of Khrushchev banging his shoe from their online store!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rkreuzer at STLAWU.EDU Fri May 2 15:54:12 2003 From: rkreuzer at STLAWU.EDU (Ruth Kreuzer) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:54:12 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: Side light on the "shoe-banging incident"...Many years ago my dissertation advisor (Dr. Nicholas Pervushin, now deceased) was working as interpretor at the UN that day. He told me the "shoe" was really a sandal. (I've always wanted to share that bit of information!). R. Kreuzer ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Fri May 2 18:12:22 2003 From: jmdavis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Jolanta Davis) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 14:12:22 -0400 Subject: Ann: Survey of Graduates in Russian and Eurasian Studies In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To: Administrators at departments of Russian, Eurasian, and East European Studies AND Slavic literatures and languages (please forward this message to the appropriate person) Re: Graduates majoring in Russian, Eurasian, and East European Studies As you may remember, in last three September issues of NewsNet (2000, 2001, and 2002), AAASS published results of an informal poll about the number of students graduating with majors in Russian, Eurasian, and East European Studies. If you want to participate in this year's survey, please send to newsnet at fas.harvard.edu the following information: - Name of the department/program granting degrees - Types of degrees awarded (e.g. B.A., M.A., Ph.D.) - Number of degrees awarded in each category between July 1, 2002 and July 1, 2003 - Employment prospects or future education plans (whether the graduate already secured employment or not; if so, please provide the name of the organization and the title of position obtained; or if the graduate is planning further study, please note whether he/ she already got admitted into a graduate program and where) Please send the information by June 1. (If you know that you will have graduates this year but won't know the exact number until a later date, please let me know). To see the results from previous surveys, please go to the AAASS Web site: www.aaass.org, and click on "data from surveys" in the left hand column. Thank you very much for your help in obtaining this information. Sincerely, Jolanta Davis Jolanta M. Davis AAASS Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS) 8 Story Street Cambridge, MA tel.: 617-495-0679 fax: 617-495-0680 Web site: www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From anthony.j.vanchu1 at JSC.NASA.GOV Fri May 2 16:00:24 2003 From: anthony.j.vanchu1 at JSC.NASA.GOV (VANCHU, ANTHONY J. (JSC-AH) (TTI)) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:00:24 -0500 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: Interesting to hear that. It verifies something I once read on line--a quote from Khrushchev's son stating that, given the time of year and what he usually wore, it would have had to have been a sandal. Given that a banging a sandal is probably less noisy than banging a shoe, I guess he didn't raise quite as much a ruckus as originally thought... Tony Vanchu -----Original Message----- From: Ruth Kreuzer [mailto:rkreuzer at STLAWU.EDU] Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 10:54 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Side light on the "shoe-banging incident"...Many years ago my dissertation advisor (Dr. Nicholas Pervushin, now deceased) was working as interpretor at the UN that day. He told me the "shoe" was really a sandal. (I've always wanted to share that bit of information!). R. Kreuzer ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at ATTBI.COM Fri May 2 17:07:59 2003 From: ggerhart at ATTBI.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 10:07:59 -0700 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Michael -- 1. I have made a brave effort but I cannot go to your two sources without actually paying for it. Curiosity has its limits. 2. Earlier inquiries I made about our funeral or burial has led to the conclusion that: Most Americans believe Khrushchev said "funeral" (pokhoronim) while most Russians think he said "burial" (zakopaem). The latter is obviously nastier. Do either the London Times or the NYT take a report from someone who was actually there, and who could understand the difference between the two? Genevra Gerhart http://www.GenevraGerhart.com ggerhart at attbi.com (206) 329-0053 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Fri May 2 17:13:23 2003 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 13:13:23 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: Ruth Kreuzer wrote: > Side light on the "shoe-banging incident"...Many years ago my > dissertation advisor (Dr. Nicholas Pervushin, now deceased) was > working as interpretor at the UN that day. He told me the "shoe" was > really a sandal. (I've always wanted to share that bit of information!). I'd be interested to know whether there's any relationship between the shoe/sandal-banging and what we saw in Iraq after the American troops came through: local citizens banging shoes on statues of Saddam Hussein to demean him. Or was that just an accidental similarity in another culture? The NY Times had a sidebar explaining that the bottom of the shoe is considered dirty in Arab culture, so it is rude to show someone the bottom of your shoes, to wear your outdoor shoes inside a house or mosque, or to touch or strike someone with the bottom of your shoe... -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brifkin at WISC.EDU Fri May 2 17:22:58 2003 From: brifkin at WISC.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 12:22:58 -0500 Subject: every program matters In-Reply-To: <67C1DBD30B320B42BF50E4208A2667842C7969@tpsescmsr-ss-75.tulsaschools.org> Message-ID: Just want to assure the list that I have responded to Ms. Palace off-list and will write in support of her program. I encourage others to do so, too. Ben Rifkin President of AATSEEL -- ================= Benjamin Rifkin Professor of Slavic Languages, Slavic Dept., UW-Madison 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Dr. Madison, WI 53706 USA voice: 608/262-1623; fax: 608/265-2814 http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/slavic/rifkin/ Director of the Russian School Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 voice: 802/443-5533; fax: 802/443-5394 http://www.middlebury.edu/~ls/russian/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dseifer at ATTBI.COM Fri May 2 19:14:41 2003 From: dseifer at ATTBI.COM (Donna Seifer) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 12:14:41 -0700 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Nikita Sergeevich Khrushchev and His Shoe(s) 1. I recently saved a photo of Khrushchev at the UN on the occasion of the shoe-banging incident It is captioned: "Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, with his shoe before him, at the United Nations, 1960 Photo by Carl T. Gossett Jr. / The New York Times Photo Archives" I tried to attach it, but SEELANGS rejected my dispatch. The shoe is question is clearly seen to be a light colored men's shoe tuflia, not a sandal or a botinok. This should resolve shoe vs. sandal discussion! I will be happy to send it to anyone who cares to verify. 2. A Soviet scholar once told me that he had seen a photograph of this event in which it could be clearly seen that Khrushchev has both of his own shoes on his own feet. He said this indicated that Premier Khrushchev was not banging his own shoe, but that of an underling, i.e. it would be unseemly for the premier to bang his own shoe. 3. Sergei Nikitich and others have explained the shoe incident as follows: When the Russian delegation arrived in New York, they were wearing winter coats and boots appropriate to the Russian climate for the season. It was mild in New York, so they bought new shoes to replace their winter boots. Thus, the new shoes were on hand for banging when the Russian delegation sought to drown out a speaker they opposed. 4. As for the specific language and context of "We will bury you" - can we not ask Lynn Visson, Sergei Nikitich Khrushchev, and Khrushchev biographers, Taubman et al for input here? -- Donna Turkish Seifer, M.A. Russian Instructor Lewis & Clark College Tel: 503-246-0329 Fax: 503-246-7500 Email: dseifer at attbi.com > From: "VANCHU, ANTHONY J. (JSC-AH) (TTI)" > > Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 11:00:24 -0500 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > Interesting to hear that. It verifies something I once read on line--a > quote from Khrushchev's son stating that, given the time of year and what he > usually wore, it would have had to have been a sandal. > > Given that a banging a sandal is probably less noisy than banging a shoe, I > guess he didn't raise quite as much a ruckus as originally thought... > > Tony Vanchu > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ruth Kreuzer [mailto:rkreuzer at STLAWU.EDU] > Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 10:54 AM > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > > Side light on the "shoe-banging incident"...Many years ago my > dissertation advisor (Dr. Nicholas Pervushin, now deceased) was working > as interpretor at the UN that day. He told me the "shoe" was really a > sandal. (I've always wanted to share that bit of information!). > R. Kreuzer > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tessone at POLYGLUT.NET Fri May 2 19:40:30 2003 From: tessone at POLYGLUT.NET (Christopher A. Tessone) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 14:40:30 -0500 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <3EB2A733.28A32AD@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: This seems to be the case in eastern society in general--certainly it's bad taste to show someone the bottoms of your feet in Korean culture. Perhaps this is another case of Eastern rather than Western influence on Russian culture? Chris On Friday, May 2, 2003, at 12:13 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote: > > The NY Times had a sidebar explaining that the bottom of the shoe is > considered dirty in Arab culture, so it is rude to show someone the > bottom of your shoes, to wear your outdoor shoes inside a house or > mosque, or to touch or strike someone with the bottom of your shoe... -- Christopher A. Tessone Knox College, Galesburg, Illinois BA Student, Russian and Mathematics http://www.polyglut.net/ --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vsem at RUSSIANEXPEDITION.NET Fri May 2 20:47:18 2003 From: vsem at RUSSIANEXPEDITION.NET (Yelena) Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 00:47:18 +0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: I believe that this is an accidental similarity in another culture. Russians have plenty of supersitions, customs and believes connected with shoes but not so obvious as you have mentioned. And of couse it is extremely rude to bang the table with a shoe, because the table is associated with the altar - stol-prestol. Thank you, yours Yelena Minyonok ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul B. Gallagher" To: Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > Ruth Kreuzer wrote: > > > Side light on the "shoe-banging incident"...Many years ago my > > dissertation advisor (Dr. Nicholas Pervushin, now deceased) was > > working as interpretor at the UN that day. He told me the "shoe" was > > really a sandal. (I've always wanted to share that bit of information!). > > I'd be interested to know whether there's any relationship between the > shoe/sandal-banging and what we saw in Iraq after the American troops > came through: local citizens banging shoes on statues of Saddam Hussein > to demean him. Or was that just an accidental similarity in another > culture? > > The NY Times had a sidebar explaining that the bottom of the shoe is > considered dirty in Arab culture, so it is rude to show someone the > bottom of your shoes, to wear your outdoor shoes inside a house or > mosque, or to touch or strike someone with the bottom of your shoe... > > -- > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. > -- > Paul B. Gallagher > pbg translations, inc. > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" > http://pbg-translations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vsem at RUSSIANEXPEDITION.NET Fri May 2 20:50:30 2003 From: vsem at RUSSIANEXPEDITION.NET (Yelena) Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 00:50:30 +0400 Subject: Russian courses Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, Somebody has sent a request regarding Russian courses at the Linguistic University in Moscow. May I ask for an e-mail address? My colleague from Germany is eager to take some Russian courses during the coming summer. May be you may suggest something? Any piece of information will be appreciated. Thank you very much, yours sincerely, Yelena Minyonok ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Matt81GA at AOL.COM Fri May 2 21:26:04 2003 From: Matt81GA at AOL.COM (Matthew Herrington) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 17:26:04 EDT Subject: programs in Russia Message-ID: SEELANGers, Is anyone familiar with any university courses in Russia in which Hist. of Russian (Old Russian), Old Church Slavonic, and historical linguistics is (or can be) included in a program of Russian for Foreigners? Thanks in advance, Matthew Herrington ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kvsereda at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Fri May 2 22:11:21 2003 From: kvsereda at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Kirill Sereda) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 16:11:21 -0600 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <001a01c310f0$7cfa4dc0$0506f8d4@ss> Message-ID: So what are those Russian superstitions related to shoes? From experience I know only one: if your friend does not have as many as possible, she may not survive it. :) Kirill -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Yelena Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 2:47 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging I believe that this is an accidental similarity in another culture. Russians have plenty of supersitions, customs and believes connected with shoes but not so obvious as you have mentioned. And of couse it is extremely rude to bang the table with a shoe, because the table is associated with the altar - stol-prestol. Thank you, yours Yelena Minyonok ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul B. Gallagher" To: Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 9:13 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > Ruth Kreuzer wrote: > > > Side light on the "shoe-banging incident"...Many years ago my > > dissertation advisor (Dr. Nicholas Pervushin, now deceased) was > > working as interpretor at the UN that day. He told me the "shoe" was > > really a sandal. (I've always wanted to share that bit of information!). > > I'd be interested to know whether there's any relationship between the > shoe/sandal-banging and what we saw in Iraq after the American troops > came through: local citizens banging shoes on statues of Saddam > Hussein to demean him. Or was that just an accidental similarity in > another culture? > > The NY Times had a sidebar explaining that the bottom of the shoe is > considered dirty in Arab culture, so it is rude to show someone the > bottom of your shoes, to wear your outdoor shoes inside a house or > mosque, or to touch or strike someone with the bottom of your shoe... > > -- > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. > -- > Paul B. Gallagher > pbg translations, inc. > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" > http://pbg-translations.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at ATTBI.COM Fri May 2 22:46:57 2003 From: ggerhart at ATTBI.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 15:46:57 -0700 Subject: Bury you, or dig your grave Message-ID: The following was obtained by entering "bury you" Khrushchev "Polish embassy" in Google. -------------------------------- To prove that Khrushchev was another Stalin with world domination on his mind, one phrase was repeated over and over: We will bury you. Khrushchev said this at the end of a longer speech given at the Polish Embassy in Moscow on November 18, 1956. The speech ended: About the capitalist states, it doesn't depend on you whether or not we exist. If you don't like us, don't accept our invitations, and don't invite us to come and see you. Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you. The last two sentences, however, do not appear in either Pravda or the New York Times, both of which printed the complete text of the speech. How did these lines get added? And why? Even the translation, We will bury you, is inaccurate: a better translation would be, We will walk on your graves, which only implies disrespect; We will bury you implies aggression. ---------------------------------- The words below describe in detail how it was Khrushchev himself who confused us all: he did not read from his printed speech which said "My vas pokhoronim", but instead said "My vas zakopaem" which the translator changed back to the original My vas pokhoronim. If you cannot read the words below, then go to www.ng.ru/style/2000-08-25/8_unknown.html It is from an article, Neizvestnoe ob izvestnom by Valentin Zorin in Nezavisimaya gazeta back in 2000 Нынешнему читателю трудно понять весь драматизм происшедшего дальше. Напомню, что было начало 1956 года. Черная тень сталинских репрессий, нависавшая десятилетиями над страной, еще не развеялась. По существовавшим многие годы порядкам выступление вождя было "священным текстом". Приводя цитату такого выступления, редактор должен был на полях начертать "сверено с текстом" и расписаться. Любое отступление грозило неприятностями самыми серьезными. И вот Хрущев встал со своего стула и начал выступление. Однако, находясь под винными парами, он запамятовал о лежавшем у него в кармане тексте и принялся импровизировать. Говорил он, забыв, видимо, кто перед ним находится, в ставшем для него привычным и впоследствии выраженном словами стиле "мы вас закопаем", разоблачая мировой империализм и его прихвостней. Произнесен первый пассаж импровизации. Воцаряется мучительная пауза. Трояновский должен переводить, но он молчит. Я вижу, как он побледнел, по лбу его покатились капли пота. Пауза затягивается, Хрущев толкает переводчика в бок: "Переводи". И Олег Александрович начинает переводить. Но говорит он не то, что только что произнес Хрущев, а фразу из официального текста. Хрущев говорит дальше. Трояновский продолжает в том же духе. Эскапады Хрущева, "переводимые" Трояновским, встречают явное одобрение зала, который вполне удовлетворен призывами к налаживанию сотрудничества, произносимыми официальным переводчиком. Некоторые фразы даже встречают аплодисменты зала, а Хрущев, вошедший в раж, не может соотнести свои разоблачительные по отношению к присутствующим пассажи с доброжелательной, почти восторженной реакцией. Я сижу ни жив ни мертв, и меня сверлит только одна мысль: а что, если здесь окажется хотя бы один человек, знающий русский язык, и последует реплика, что переводится совсем не то, что говорит Хрущев. На счастье, такого человека не нашлось. Закончив свой темпераментный спич, довольный собой Никита Сергеевич под бурные аплодисменты присутствующих покидает зал. За кулисами помощники, подхватив под руки, отвели его в комнату отдыха. А мы с Олегом Александровичем остались в мучительном ожидании того, что произойдет дальше. Дело было нешуточное. По тем временам все могло закончиться и Колымой. Как же, технический работник - переводчик - осмелился исказить смысл выступления лидера государства. В томительном ожидании - он как виновник, а я как свидетель происшедшего - провели два часа. Смею заверить, не самые лучшие два часа в нашей жизни. Поспав, Хрущев вошел в комнату, где мы сидели, и несколько смущенно спросил: - Кажется, я наговорил что-то не то? - Да, Никита Сергеевич, - сказал Трояновский, - вы отошли от заготовленного текста. - Не виляйте, расскажите мне в точности, что я им говорил. Пришлось рассказать. - И ты все это им переводил? - обратился он к Трояновскому. - Никита Сергеевич, я шел по заранее утвержденному тексту, - сказал Трояновский упавшим голосом. - Какая же ты умница! - вскричал Никита Сергеевич, обнял и крепко расцеловал Олега. В газетах речь Н.С. Хрущева была воспроизведена точно по официальному тексту, а с этого момента началось восхождение Олега Трояновского по дипломатической карьерной лестнице. И заслуженно! Он проявил не только ответственность и заботу об интересах страны, но и незаурядное политическое мужество. По тем временам это был Поступок. <...> Genevra Gerhart http://www.GenevraGerhart.com ggerhart at attbi.com (206) 329-0053 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rkreuzer at STLAWU.EDU Fri May 2 22:56:06 2003 From: rkreuzer at STLAWU.EDU (ruth kreuzer) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 18:56:06 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: I went searching in Google images (Khrushchev shoe) and came up with this link and story, reputedly the info from Sergei Khrushchev, and Sergei says they were sandals he bought in NYC...but there was a picture a shoe, one he supposedly brought to NYC, but wasn't wearing that day. Check out the story (and picture) yourselves: http://www.brownalumnimagazine.com/storydetail.cfm?ID=698 R. Kreuzer ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From uladzik at MAILBOX.HU Sat May 3 00:34:26 2003 From: uladzik at MAILBOX.HU (Uladzimir Katkouski) Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 02:34:26 +0200 Subject: Scotland & White Russia Message-ID: There were a few updates on pravapis.org, including one article in English: http://www.pravapis.org/art_scotland_belarus.asp - Some amazing parallels between Scotland and Belarus history. Historian Ales Biely tells us an interesting story about Scots and our people of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. There are also some interesting linguistic parallels. Regards, Uladzimir Katkouski -------------------------------------------------- What\'s your MailBox address? - http://mailbox.hu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenka at UVIC.CA Sat May 3 01:42:18 2003 From: elenka at UVIC.CA (elenka) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 18:42:18 -0700 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: Dear colleagues: I am happy to see that my query about Khrushchev has started such a lively exchange. I was, of course, primarily interested in the translation of "ya vam pokazhu kuzkinu mat" but it is interesting to follow the discussion as it unfolds. Regarding superstitions. I think it's a weak explanation. >From what I heard, the whole action of shoe banging might have been if not planned (domashniaia zagotovka), then at least thought over as a possible form of expressing protest during the session of the UN Assembly. Apparently, the regulations in the UN do not allow such interruption of sb else's speech as clapping, shouting, waving hands, etc. Nobody thought of shoe banging as a form of protest that might by used among diplomats. so it is possible that Khrushchev was simply inventive. no superstitions were involved. Moreover, from what I heard, he even expected Gromyko to follow his example. Anyway, the regulations of the UNO and domashnie zagotovki of Russian leaders (Putin is another good example) are not quite what I am interested in learning. Would anyone have more ideas on translating "ya vam pokazhu Kuzkinu mat"? Yelena Minyonok indicated she knows the original "maternoe virazhenie" which is still used in some villages in Russia. Which expression do you have in mind? We're almost all "filologi" here, of course, but if you don't want to share it with everyone, could you please write to my e-mail address: elenka at uvic.ca Many thanks to everyone who's responded to my query. Elena Baraban >===== Original Message From Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list ===== >So what are those Russian superstitions related to shoes? From >experience I know only one: if your friend does not have as many as >possible, she may not survive it. :) Kirill > >-----Original Message----- >From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list >[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Yelena >Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 2:47 PM >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > >I believe that this is an accidental similarity in another culture. >Russians have plenty of supersitions, customs and believes connected >with shoes but not so obvious as you have mentioned. And of couse it is >extremely rude to bang the table with a shoe, because the table is >associated with the altar - stol-prestol. Thank you, yours Yelena >Minyonok > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul B. Gallagher" >To: >Sent: Friday, May 02, 2003 9:13 PM >Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > >> Ruth Kreuzer wrote: >> >> > Side light on the "shoe-banging incident"...Many years ago my >> > dissertation advisor (Dr. Nicholas Pervushin, now deceased) was >> > working as interpretor at the UN that day. He told me the "shoe" was > >> > really a sandal. (I've always wanted to share that bit of >information!). >> >> I'd be interested to know whether there's any relationship between the > >> shoe/sandal-banging and what we saw in Iraq after the American troops >> came through: local citizens banging shoes on statues of Saddam >> Hussein to demean him. Or was that just an accidental similarity in >> another culture? >> >> The NY Times had a sidebar explaining that the bottom of the shoe is >> considered dirty in Arab culture, so it is rude to show someone the >> bottom of your shoes, to wear your outdoor shoes inside a house or >> mosque, or to touch or strike someone with the bottom of your shoe... >> >> -- >> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. >> -- >> Paul B. Gallagher >> pbg translations, inc. >> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" >> http://pbg-translations.com >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >at: >> http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >> >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- >> >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From llt at HAWAII.EDU Sat May 3 02:11:09 2003 From: llt at HAWAII.EDU (Language Learning & Technology) Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 16:11:09 -1000 Subject: LLT Vol 7 Num 2 now available Message-ID: We are happy to announce that Volume 7, Number 2 of Language Learning & Technology is now available at http://llt.msu.edu. This is a Special Issue on "Telecollaboration" and was guest edited by Julie A. Belz in conjunction with Associate Editor Rick Kern. The contents are listed below. Please visit the LLT Web site and be sure to enter your free subscription if you have not already done so. Also, we welcome your contributions for future issues. Check our guidelines for submission at http://llt.msu.edu/contrib.html. Sincerely, Mark Warschauer and Dorothy Chun, Editors Language Learning & Technology (http://llt.msu.edu) ***Feature Articles*** Artifacts and Cultures-of-Use in Intercultural Communication by Steven L. Thorne Linguistic Perspectives on the Development of Intercultural Competence in Telecollaboration by Julie A. Belz Understanding the "Other Side": Intercultural Learning in a Spanish-English E-Mail Exchange by Robert O'Dowd Negotiation of Meaning and Codeswitching in Online Tandems by Markus Kötter ***Columns*** On the Net by by Jean W. LeLoup & Robert Ponterio Tele-Collaborative Projects: Monsters.com? Emerging Technologies by Bob Godwin-Jones Blogs and Wikis: Environments for On-line Collaboration ***Reviews*** Edited by Rafael Salaberry Language and the Internet by David Crystal Reviewed by Steven L. Thorne Network-Based Language Teaching: Concepts and Practice, Mark Warschauer & Rick Kern (Eds.) Reviewed by Marisol Fernández-García Pronunciación y Fonética, version 2.1 (software) by Patricia V. Lunn Reviewed by Phillip Elliot ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Sat May 3 13:08:31 2003 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 14:08:31 +0100 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <3EB22059@wm2.uvic.ca> Message-ID: May I muddy the waters further by referring you to two articles which appeared in Izvestiia last year. These are an interview with (22 August 2002) and a subsequent article by Sergei Khrushchev (8 September 2002). Both are available on-line at: http://main.izvestia.ru/person/article22772 and http://main.izvestia.ru/world/article23548 These give slightly contradictory accounts of what the item of footwear was, how it came to be in Khrushchev's hand and what he actually did with it. Neither article quotes Khrushchev Senior's exact words (though see below), but the context described by the son does not necessarily support the phrase involving Kuz'kina mat', and I wonder if there is any unimpeachable source for this story. I assume the story about the literal translation is apocryphal; Harold Macmillan, the British Prime Minister at the time, is supposed to have said 'Would someone please provide a translation', but this may also be apocryphal. In the final paragraph of the second article S. Khrushchev links the footwear incident with the burying phrase. He gives the latter as: 'Vzjat' zastup i poglubzhe poxoronit' imperializm' and complains that this was distorted by 'propagandists' to 'my vas poxoronim'. I must admit that I always thought that the burying phrase came from a different visit to the United States. John Dunn. >Dear colleagues: > >I am trying to find precise information on Khrushchev's show banging in the UN >Assembly. On Wednesday 12 October 1960, all national papers commented on >Nikita Sergeyevich and his famous shoe banging. Apparently, Khrushchev >protested the speech of the head of the Philippine delegation, Senator Lorenzo >Sumulong. In anger, he called the senator "a jerk, a stooge and a lackey of >imperialism." In the Russian version, though, the shoe banging, it seems, was >accompanied by a wonderful idiomatic phrase "ia vam pokazhu kuzkinu mat." I >would very much like to find out the English translation of this phrase. I >mean, the version they used when they had to translate it in the UN. Since >such a phrase is extremely difficult to translate, I wouldn't be surprised if >they used literal translation - sth like "Kuzkin's mother." In this case, it >would be also nice to learn how the phrase can be translated into idiomatic >English. "I'll spit into your eye" is a possible translation but it does not >really capture the comic aspect of the Russian phrase. > >Have you ever come across any useful information on this? > >Many thanks in advance. > > >elenka at uvic.ca > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- John Dunn Department of Slavonic Studies University of Glasgow Hetherington Building Bute Gardens Glasgow G12 8RS Tel.: +44 (0)141-330-5591 Fax: +44 (0)141-330-2297 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From peitlova at TISCALINET.IT Sat May 3 17:29:13 2003 From: peitlova at TISCALINET.IT (Edil Legno) Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 19:29:13 +0200 Subject: kuz'kin Message-ID: "Ja vam pokazhu kuz'kinu mat' - znachit: Be carefull! You will see what I'll do You!" kuz'kin - prilagatel'noje ,a ne sobstvennoe imja, ego nado pisat' ne propisnoj bukvoj. Katarina ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Palacgw at TULSASCHOOLS.ORG Sat May 3 18:56:33 2003 From: Palacgw at TULSASCHOOLS.ORG (Palace, Gwendolyn) Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 13:56:33 -0500 Subject: Help save a High School Russian Language program Message-ID: Deal colleagues, please help me save an excellent Russian program.Could you write a letter to my Principal and Superintendent talking about the importance to keep HS Russian programs? In my first plea for help, I inadvertedly left off the complete name and mailing address. Thank you to those who have already responded. Dr. Debra Boyles Principal Booker T. Washington High School Tulsa, OK 74106 Dr. David Sawyer Superintendent Tulsa Public Schools 3027 South New Haven Tulsa, OK 74114 I teach levels 1-6 and have been very successful with students passing the International Baccalaureate Russian Exam. Most of my students go on to study Russian at major universities. My enrollment has hovered around 25-30 and I have not been able to increase it. However during the time of current financial crisis and budget cuts, our Russian program is in danger. They are going to lump all my students in one class. Please write a letter in support so this may be adverted. It is vital that Russian 1 students NOT be lumped together with other more advanced students. IT is not fair to them or the other students. But then again, they may just eliminate the program altogether. Thank you *** This message is being sent via property belonging to Tulsa Public Schools and is subject to monitoring. Therefore, there is no expectation of privacy nor confidentiality regarding these communications. Gwen Palace Russian Language / World History Booker T. Washington High School 1631 E. Woodrow Place Tulsa, OK 74106 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenka at UVIC.CA Sat May 3 19:01:55 2003 From: elenka at UVIC.CA (elenka) Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 12:01:55 -0700 Subject: kuz'kin Message-ID: >kuz'kin - prilagatel'noje ,a ne sobstvennoe imja, >ego nado pisat' ne propisnoj bukvoj. > You're absolutely right. Thank you for your correction. - Lena ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From babyaking at STRATOS.NET Sun May 4 08:30:13 2003 From: babyaking at STRATOS.NET (Your Name) Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 04:30:13 -0400 Subject: programs in Russia Message-ID: There is a two year program offered at St. Petersburg State University, Russia towards a M.A. in Philology that is geared towards the foreign student. Courses can be audited at SPGU, also. Hoyte King > SEELANGers, > > Is anyone familiar with any university courses in Russia in which Hist. of > Russian (Old Russian), Old Church Slavonic, and historical linguistics is (or > can be) included in a program of Russian for Foreigners? > > Thanks in advance, > Matthew Herrington > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pyz at BRAMA.COM Mon May 5 02:01:25 2003 From: pyz at BRAMA.COM (Max Pyziur) Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 22:01:25 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging (fwd) Message-ID: >From someone who is a regular at the U.N. ... Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 02 May 2003 08:02:04 -0400 From: hanya at brama.com To: Max Pyziur Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging (fwd) The first thing that one would have to know is that part of the contract that the UN countries have is that they are permitted to edit the content of what goes on the record. The shoe banging episode, for example, officially never happened at the UN. There is no available film of the episode, and nothing is written about it in the UN documentation. (With respect to this, it would be interesting to see what the possibilities are of recovering the missing information in light of the dissolution of the USSR) I have the exact language someplace that was approved by the USSR for the UN logs from that session -- possibly the English and the Russian versions both, but English for certain. I can dig it up later. Bottom line is that you can probably get a more accurate quote from the newspapers. Hit the microfiche records at your local library. At 06:34 AM 5/2/03 -0400, you wrote: > > >---------- Forwarded message ---------- >Date: Thu, 1 May 2003 23:55:14 -0700 >From: elenka >Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > >Dear colleagues: > >I am trying to find precise information on Khrushchev's show banging in the UN >Assembly. On Wednesday 12 October 1960, all national papers commented on >Nikita Sergeyevich and his famous shoe banging. Apparently, Khrushchev >protested the speech of the head of the Philippine delegation, Senator Lorenzo >Sumulong. In anger, he called the senator "a jerk, a stooge and a lackey of >imperialism." In the Russian version, though, the shoe banging, it seems, was >accompanied by a wonderful idiomatic phrase "ia vam pokazhu kuzkinu mat." I >would very much like to find out the English translation of this phrase. I >mean, the version they used when they had to translate it in the UN. Since >such a phrase is extremely difficult to translate, I wouldn't be surprised if >they used literal translation - sth like "Kuzkin's mother." In this case, it >would be also nice to learn how the phrase can be translated into idiomatic >English. "I'll spit into your eye" is a possible translation but it does not >really capture the comic aspect of the Russian phrase. > >Have you ever come across any useful information on this? > >Many thanks in advance. > > >elenka at uvic.ca > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lynne_debenedette at BROWN.EDU Mon May 5 04:29:05 2003 From: lynne_debenedette at BROWN.EDU (Lynne deBenedette) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 00:29:05 -0400 Subject: help finding news article Message-ID: At some point I know I had a clipping from Arg. i fakty (I think from 1996) that was about the disappearance of the line (очередь) in post-Soviet society; it recalled the “good” old days of lines and gave some information about how the etiquette of lines worked. The AiF website seems to start from 1997 and in any case has not responded to my various combinations of search terms. Am beginning to worry that my memory deceives me, except I really do remember reading the article, and I’m almost positive it was from AiF. I have a student who wants to do reading on this topic; I know it’s a long shot, but does anyone remember this article, or know of a similar one on the subject from the Russian press? Thanks in advance, Lynne -- Lynne deBenedette Senior Lecturer in Russian Brown University / Slavic Languages 20 Manning Walk, Box E Providence, RI 02912 tel 401-863-7572 or 401-863-2689 fax 401-863-7330 lynne_debenedette at brown.edu SPRING 2003 Office Hours Tu 2.30-4; We 3.30-5 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sher07 at MINDSPRING.COM Mon May 5 07:24:48 2003 From: sher07 at MINDSPRING.COM (Benjamin Sher) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 02:24:48 -0500 Subject: RTVI news in video broadband online Message-ID: Dear friends: I highly recommend the daily news broadcasts of RTVI available in video broadband from: http://www.russianalliance.com/ There are three news broadcasts: Today in America, Today in Israel and Today in Russia. Each broadcast is a half hour long (actually 23 mintues without commercials). Benjamin P. S. You can also find this site on my Index under Multimedia -- Video Online. Sher's Russian Web http://www.websher.net Benjamin and Anna Sher sher07 at mindspring.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From n.bermel at SHEFFIELD.AC.UK Mon May 5 08:52:47 2003 From: n.bermel at SHEFFIELD.AC.UK (Neil Bermel) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:52:47 +0100 Subject: CFP: BASEES 2004 - linguistics, pedagogy, translation Message-ID: CALL FOR PAPERS BASEES - BRITISH ASSOCIATION FOR SLAVONIC AND EAST EUROPEAN STUDIES 3 - 5 APRIL 2004 CAMBRIDGE, U.K. Abstracts for complete panels and individual papers are invited in all areas of linguistics, language pedagogy and translation studies for the BASEES 2004 conference. This year's conference saw approximately 20 presentations in the field, covering areas including sociolinguistics, dialectology, generative linguistics, instructional technology, and translation. The conference overall had over 200 presenters in a variety of subjects, including history, literature and cultural studies, sociology, economics, and politics. The deadline for abstracts is 1 October 2003. More information is available on the BASEES website: www.basees.org.uk BASEES welcomes participation from UK and non-UK scholars, whether members of academic staff or postgraduate students. We encourage the submission of complete panels (3 speakers, or 2 speakers plus discussant) but do not require it. All abstracts IN LINGUISTICS, LANGUAGE TEACHING AND TRANSLATION STUDIES may be sent directly to the subject organizer, Dr Jan Fellerer (jan.fellerer at wolfson.ox.ac.uk). Any preliminary enquiries in linguistics, language teaching and translation studies about housing, travel, etc. before the abstract deadline of 1 OCTOBER should be sent to Dr Neil Bermel (n.bermel at sheffield.ac.uk). Participants will be notified of the status of their submission by the end of November. Submissions and enquiries in the other fields represented at the conference should go to the respective subject organizer (see the website for more information). Please note that BASEES does not undertake to fund all scholars whose papers are accepted; participants must count on paying their own travel and conference expenses. Some funding is available for postgraduate students at UK universities. Neil Bermel Neil Bermel Russian and Slavonic Studies University of Sheffield Sheffield S10 2TN U.K. +44 (0)114 222 7405 phone +44 (0)114 222 7416 fax ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From peitlova at TISCALINET.IT Mon May 5 09:14:18 2003 From: peitlova at TISCALINET.IT (Edil Legno) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:14:18 +0200 Subject: Kuz'kinu Message-ID: ???????? ???????? ???? (????.?????.)- ????????? ??????.????????? ?????? ?????????????: 1.??????,?????? - ??????,??????? ?????? ????????? ????????.? ???? ??????? ?? ????????? ????? ???? ?????? ??? ?????? ??????????? ?????? ? ?????. 2.?????? - ??????? ?????,? ???????? ????????? ?????????? ??????? ?????. 3.??????????????? ?????? ??????? ? ????-????????? ? ????-?????????? ??????? ????,????? -????,?????-. 4.?????? - ????. 5.??? ?????? ? ??????? ?????????? ? ?????????? ????? ????????????? ??????????????.?????? ????,???????????,?????????. ????????????? ?????????? ? ????? ? ?????? ????? ?????????. 24 ???? 1959 ????,?? ????? ??????? ???????????? ???????? ? ???????????,?????? ?????? ????-?????????? ??? ?.???????: -? ????? ???????????? ??????? ????????,??????? ????? ????? ??? ??? ?????? ???????????...?? ??? ??? ??????? ???????? ????! - ?????????? ? ?????????????? ??????? ????? ????????:-?? ??? ??? ??????? ???? ??????!- ?????????? ???? ?????????:??? ????????? ??????,??? ????? ???????,??? ???????-???????? Katarìna Peitlovà,Ph.Dr. ??? ????????? ???????? ? ??????? ????? ?????,??????? ?? ?.?.???????. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From peitlova at TISCALINET.IT Mon May 5 09:31:49 2003 From: peitlova at TISCALINET.IT (Edil Legno) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:31:49 +0200 Subject: Fw: Re:Kuz'kinu Message-ID: Показать кузькину мать (груб.прост.)- выражение угрозы.Несколько версий происхождения: 1.Кузьма,кузька - плетка,обычное орудие домашнего наказния.В день свадьбы на Кузьминки жених клал плетку как символ супружеской власти в сапог. 2.Кузька - злобный жучок,с огромной скоростью уничтожает хлебные злаки. 3.Существительное кузька связано с коми-зырянским и коми-пермяцкими словами кузь,кузьо -черт,леший-. 4.Кузька - плут. 5.Имя Кузьма в русских пословицах и поговорках имеет отрицательную характеристику.Кузьма злой,мстительный,драчливый. Отрицательные коннотации и легли в основу этого выражения. 24 июня 1959 года,во время осмотра американской выставки в Сокольниках,Хрущев сказал вице-президенту США Р.Никсону: -В нашем распоряжении имеются средства,которые будут иметь для вас тяжкие последствия...мы вам еще покажем кузькину мать! - Переводчик в замешательстве перевел фразу дословно:-Мы вам еще покажем мать Кузьмы!- Американцы были ошарашены:что это?Новое оружие,еще более грозное,чем ракетно-ядерное? Katarìna Peitlovà,Ph.Dr. Это выражение известно в русском языке давно,задолго до Н.С.Хрущева. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU Mon May 5 12:39:52 2003 From: sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU (Sibelan E S Forrester) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 08:39:52 -0400 Subject: TWO LINES readings in New York City Message-ID: For list members residing in or near New York: here's an announcement of the entire program, but take special note of: Vitaly Chernetsky (reading Aleksandr Anashevich from Russian) on May 15 and Marian Schwartz (reading Oleg Radzinsky and other Russian authors); Oleg Radzinsky; and Nina Kossman (reading Olga Gurian from Russian) on May 22. ********** C E N T E R F O R A R T I N T R A N S L A T I O N & T W O L I N E S invite you to celebrate World-in-Translation Month / May 2003 and the Tenth Anniversary of TWO LINES With festive events in New York featuring libations and multilingual literature from ten years of TWO LINES! Co-sponsored by the PEN Translation Committee ......................................................................... MAY 2003 EVENTS TWO LINES: a journal of translation celebrates its 10th anniversary with festive readings for the release of "Parties," the 2003 issue. THURSDAY, MAY 15 7:00 pm (with music following) Reading from TWO LINES: "Parties" and past issues Barbès (www.barbesbrooklyn.com) 376 9th St. @ 6th Avenue Brooklyn, NY Free Readers: Rika Lesser (reading Göran Sonnevi from Swedish); Adria Bernardi (reading Raffaelo Baldini from Romagnolo); David Goldstein (reading Umberto Saba from Italian); Sarah Brownsberger (reading Sigfús Bjartmarsson from Icelandic); Joan Kunsch (reading Dag Sundby from Norwegian); Tobias Warner (reading Cheikh C. Sow from French); Vitaly Chernetsky (reading Aleksandr Anashevich from Russian). THURSDAY, MAY 22 6:00 pm Reading from TWO LINES: "Parties" and past issues Cornelia Street Café (www.corneliastreetcafe.com) 29 Cornelia Street New York, NY $6 (includes a drink) Readers: Marian Schwartz (reading Oleg Radzinsky and other Russian authors); Oleg Radzinsky; Jason Weiss (reading Luisa Futoransky from Spanish); Nina Kossman (reading Olga Gurian from Russian); Alexis Levitin (reading Herberto Helder from Portuguese); Joan Kunsch (reading Dag Sundby from Norwegian); Charles Cutler (reading Astrid Cabral from Portuguese). Both events co-sponsored by the PEN Translation Committee ._._._._._.__._._._._._.__._._._._._.__._._._._._.__._._._._._.__._._._._._. Olivia E. Sears, Executive Director Center for Art in Translation 35 Stillman Street, Suite 201 San Francisco, CA 94107 ph: (415) 512-8812 fx: (415) 512-8812 e-mail: osears at catranslation.org web: www.catranslation.org The Center for Art in Translation is a non-profit organization promoting international literature and translation through art, education, and community outreach. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Mon May 5 17:02:12 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:02:12 -0700 Subject: help finding news article In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >At some point I know I had a clipping from Arg. i fakty (I think from 1996) >that was about the disappearance of the line (-æ-á-µ-Ä-µ-¥-å) in post-Soviet >society; A Yandex search yielded a number of articles, your student could do the research himself or herself. You could also suggest a book of fiction by Sorokin, simply entitled "Ochered'". _____________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Ronald.LeBlanc at UNH.EDU Mon May 5 15:28:17 2003 From: Ronald.LeBlanc at UNH.EDU (Ronald LeBlanc) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:28:17 -0400 Subject: chocolate Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, Could anyone direct me to a visual representation (photo, poster, illustration, painting, etc.) of chocolate -- either the hot beverage or the solid confection -- that could accompany an article on Tarasov-Rodionov's 1920's novel "Shokolad" (for an upcoming issue of the journal "Gastronomica")? Thanks in advance for any leads/ideas. Ron LeBlanc University of New Hampshire ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From anthony.j.vanchu1 at JSC.NASA.GOV Mon May 5 15:33:39 2003 From: anthony.j.vanchu1 at JSC.NASA.GOV (VANCHU, ANTHONY J. (JSC-AH) (TTI)) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 10:33:39 -0500 Subject: chocolate Message-ID: Try these two sites: The website of Krasnyi oktiabr' factory: http://www.konfetki.ru/ And another one from a chocolate factory in Tula: http://home.tula.net/yp/ I suspect you might need to ask permission, which could be the most difficult part! Tony Vanchu Dr. Anthony J. Vanchu Director, JSC Language Education Center TechTrans International, Inc. NASA Johnson Space Center Houston, TX Phone: (281) 483-0644 Fax: (281) 483-4050 -----Original Message----- From: Ronald LeBlanc [mailto:Ronald.LeBlanc at UNH.EDU] Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 10:28 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] chocolate Dear SEELANGers, Could anyone direct me to a visual representation (photo, poster, illustration, painting, etc.) of chocolate -- either the hot beverage or the solid confection -- that could accompany an article on Tarasov-Rodionov's 1920's novel "Shokolad" (for an upcoming issue of the journal "Gastronomica")? Thanks in advance for any leads/ideas. Ron LeBlanc University of New Hampshire ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ilon at UT.EE Mon May 5 19:09:51 2003 From: ilon at UT.EE (I.F.) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 22:09:51 +0300 Subject: ruthenia news Message-ID: NOVOSTI SAJTA "RUTHENIA" V razdele "Antologija pushkinistiki" (http://www.ruthenia.ru/pushkin.html) otkryt proekt "Pushkiniana Tartuensia" http://www.ruthenia.ru/tartu.html Programma konferencii, posvjashhennoj stoletiju N. A. Zabolockogo (Moskva, 24 aprelja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526313.html Konferencija "Central'naja Rossija i literatura russkogo zarubezh'ja (1917-1939)" (Orel, 24-25 aprelja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526413.html Konferencija "N. M. JAzykov i literatura pushkinskoj jepohi" (Simbirsk, 24-26 aprelja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526433.html Konferencija "Pojetika prozy" (Smolensk, 24-27 aprelja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526453.html Konferencija "Literatura: mif i real'nost'" (Kazan', 5-7 maja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526454.html Anonsirovannaja ranee konferencija ""My" kak ontologicheskaja kategorija russkoj kul'tury" (RGGU 15-16 maja 2003) ne sostoitsja. Konferencija-festival' "Pojeticheskij jazyk rubezha HH-HHI vekov i sovremennye literaturnye strategii" (Moskva, 16-19 maja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526214.html Programma http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526213.html Konferencija CAS (Galifaks, 29-31 maja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526393.html XIII Vinogradovskie chtenija (SPb, 27-30 ijunja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526354.html Informacionnoe pis'mo http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526353.html Konferencija "Pushkin i sny. Sny v fol'klore, iskusstve i zhizni cheloveka" (Pushkinskie Gory, 3-7 ijulja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526254.html Informacionnoe pis'mo http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526253.html Konferencija "Problemy literatury XX veka" (Severodvinsk, 1-3 oktjabrja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526474.html Informacionnoe pis'mo http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526473.html V razdel "Rusistika na Vebe" dobavlena ssylka na stranicu fakul'teta russkoj filologii Kazanskogo gosudarstvennogo pedagogicheskogo universiteta http://ruthenia.ru/web/russia.html#K ----------------------------- Ilon Fraiman staff at ruthenia.ru http://www.ruthenia.ru/ ----------------------------- Adres dlja podpiski na rassylku novostej sajta "Ruthenia" http://www.ruthenia.ru/subscribe.html CHtoby otkazat'sja ot rassylki, zajdite, pozhalujsta, na stranicu http://www.ruthenia.ru/subscribe.html ili napishite pis'mo po adresu staff at ruthenia.ru ----------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenka at UVIC.CA Mon May 5 19:30:44 2003 From: elenka at UVIC.CA (elenka) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 12:30:44 -0700 Subject: Kuz'kinu - wrong dates Message-ID: Dear colleagues: Yes, the link of the expression "ia tebe pokazhu kuzkinu mat" with the shoe banging incident (12 Oct, 1960) is to be a myth. I checked _NY Times_ and _Washington Post_ for Oct 12-Oct 13 1960 and there was nothing on Khrushchev's using this expression. The shoe was there, of course. However, the myth of K's using this phrase then is very strong and many Russians link it to that day (plenty of references in recent Russian press). Viktor Sukhodrev, a translator who worked with Khrushchev and who was present in the UN on Oct 12, 1960, in his interview published in "Komsomolskaya pravda" on 12/10/1999 (http://www.trworkshop.net/faces/sukhodrev.htm) says that the phrase about "kuzkina mat" was actually used during the opening of the American National Exhibition in Moscow in 1959 in a conversation with the US Vice-President R. Nixon. In American sources, the conversation is known as the "kitchen debate". There's a bit of confusion about the dates of Khrushchev-Nixon conversation and I haven't yet had a chance to check the microfilms with Russian and American newspapers. The dates posted on the web are June 24, June 25, July 24, and even August 7. It would be interesting to find out how the myth of "kuzkina mat" accompanying the shoe banging in the United Nations appeared in Russia. But that's another query. I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my Khrushchev query. Sincerely, Elena Baraban University of Victoria >===== Original Message From Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list ===== >Показать кузькину мать (груб.прост.)- выражение угрозы.Несколько версий Ð¿Ñ€Ð¾Ð¸ÑÑ Ð¾Ð¶Ð´ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ: >1.Кузьма,кузька - плетка,обычное орудие домашнего наказния.В день свадьбы на Кузьминки Ð¶ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐºÐ»Ð°Ð» плетку как символ супружеской власти в сапог. >2.Кузька - злобный жучок,с огромной скоростью уничтожает Ñ Ð»ÐµÐ±Ð½Ñ‹Ðµ злаки. >3.Существительное кузька связано с коми-зырянским и коми-пермяцкими словами кузь,кузьо -черт,леший-. >4.Кузька - плут. >5.Имя Кузьма в Ñ€ÑƒÑÑÐºÐ¸Ñ Ð¿Ð¾ÑÐ»Ð¾Ð²Ð¸Ñ†Ð°Ñ Ð¸ Ð¿Ð¾Ð³Ð¾Ð²Ð¾Ñ€ÐºÐ°Ñ Ð¸Ð¼ÐµÐµÑ‚ отрицательную Ñ Ð°Ñ€Ð°ÐºÑ‚ÐµÑ€Ð¸ÑÑ‚Ð¸ÐºÑƒ.Кузьма злой,мстительный,драчливый. >Отрицательные коннотации и легли в основу этого выражения. >24 июня 1959 года,во время осмотра американской выставки в Ð¡Ð¾ÐºÐ¾Ð»ÑŒÐ½Ð¸ÐºÐ°Ñ ,Хрущев сказал вице-президенту США Р.Никсону: >-В нашем распоряжении имеются средства,которые будут иметь для вас тяжкие последствия...мы вам еще покажем кузькину мать! - Переводчик в замешательстве перевел фразу дословно:-Мы вам еще покажем мать Кузьмы!- Американцы были ошарашены:что это?Новое оружие,еще более грозное,чем ракетно-ядерное? >Katarìna Peitlovà,Ph.Dr. >Это выражение известно в русском языке давно,задолго до Н.С.Хрущева. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From webliography at HOTMAIL.COM Mon May 5 19:54:04 2003 From: webliography at HOTMAIL.COM (Bogdan Sagatov) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 15:54:04 -0400 Subject: chocolate - the key to all mythologies! Message-ID: Dear Ronald LeBlanc, There is a vitage Russian ad for chocolate for sale on eBay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3606303016&category=1526 Save the ad to your desktop - you'll get both a file and a webpage. Open the file, move the picture of the ad to your desktop and vola! Don't ask me about copyrights! Don't laugh but eBay is an excellent source for illustrations. I generally look for "one of a kind items" -- for example, old Russian cabinet photgraph -- and I buy them! I'm not sure but since I own them and they're "one of a kind," there shouldn't be copyright issues. Whom would I contact. Mind you, for eLeaning illustrations, I continue to use the gif. file in the original ad. I also find photos of Russian items on eBay that I don't want or can't afford -- for example, a porcelen plate with Peter the Great depicted. I then write the seller -- their email is noted on the page -- and ask permission to use their photograph of the item in an eLearning project. They're sometimes flattered. Sometimes they don't respond. So far I've been batting about .500. The chocolate ad I noted above was among several items that appeared when I searched for "Russian chocolate." Happy searching! Dr. Bogdan B. Sagatov NCS/Language/eLearning Technologies (410) 854-4166 >From: Ronald LeBlanc >Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: [SEELANGS] chocolate >Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 11:28:17 -0400 > >Dear SEELANGers, > >Could anyone direct me to a visual representation (photo, poster, >illustration, painting, etc.) of chocolate -- either the hot beverage or >the >solid confection -- that could accompany an article on Tarasov-Rodionov's >1920's novel "Shokolad" (for an upcoming issue of the journal >"Gastronomica")? > >Thanks in advance for any leads/ideas. > >Ron LeBlanc >University of New Hampshire > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From douglas at NYU.EDU Mon May 5 21:34:27 2003 From: douglas at NYU.EDU (Charlotte Douglas) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 17:34:27 -0400 Subject: CFP Malevich conference Message-ID: Conference "Rethinking Malevich" In celebration of the 125th anniversary of Kazimir Malevich's birth (1879-1935), The Malevich Society announces a conference with the theme, "Rethinking Malevich". Papers are invited addressing any aspect of this topic. Subjects might include: Malevich and the Ukraine; Malevich and Western Modernism; Malevich as scientist; Malevich's familial biography; Malevich's landscape painting; the historical and philosophical significance of Suprematism; Malevich and revolutionary politics; evaluation of recent publications on the artist; and the historiography of Malevich studies. The two day conference will be held on Friday and Saturday, February 6 and 7, 2004, in the Elebash Recital Hall of the Graduate School and University Center of the City University of New York, located at 365 Fifth Avenue at 34th Street in New York City. The proposal should consist of an approximately 500 word abstract of the paper you wish to present, a brief cv or resume, and your return e-mail or postal address for notification. The deadline for receipt of the proposal is August 1, 2003 Announcement of selected speakers will be made by September 20, 2003. Postal address: The Malevich Society, c/o Herrick, Feinstein LLP, 2 Park Avenue, New York, NY 10016 Telephone: 1-718-980-1805 E-mail address: malevichsociety at hotmail.com Website: www.malevichsociety at hotmail.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brifkin at WISC.EDU Mon May 5 21:45:42 2003 From: brifkin at WISC.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 16:45:42 -0500 Subject: Chernobyl Anniversary Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers: The anniversary was a week or so ago (April 26, 1986), but some of you may still be interested in reading about the event with your students: life in the hot zone -- Sincerely, Ben Rifkin -- ================= Benjamin Rifkin Professor of Slavic Languages, Slavic Dept., UW-Madison 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Dr. Madison, WI 53706 USA voice: 608/262-1623; fax: 608/265-2814 http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/slavic/rifkin/ Director of the Russian School Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 voice: 802/443-5533; fax: 802/443-5394 http://www.middlebury.edu/~ls/russian/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hanya at BRAMA.COM Mon May 5 22:02:00 2003 From: hanya at BRAMA.COM (Hanya Krill) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 18:02:00 -0400 Subject: UN and NYT quotes Re: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: Here are quotes from the UN records of the relevant paragraphs from the day in question, October 12, 1960. The Russian is CP1251 using a Ukrainian character set and a few letters were fudged, but I think you'll be able to sort it out: ******************* 12th October, General Assembly Plenary Session Ã-í ÕÐÓÙÅ ... Paragraph 157 À ïî÷åìó æå, êîãäà âèñòóïàåò ñåé÷àñ ºòîò õîëóé àìåðèêàíñüêîãî èìïåðèàë³çìà è ãîâîðèò ñîâñåì íå ïî ïðîöåäóðíèì âîïðîñàì, Ïðåñåäàòåëü, êîòîðèé, âèäèìî, ñèìïàòèçèðóåò êîëîíèàëüíîìó ãîñïîäñòâó, íå îñòàíàâëàåò åãî? Ðàçâå ºòî ñïðàâåäëèâî? Íåò íå ñïðàâåäëèâî. But why then, when this toady of American imperialism rises and speaks about matters which are entirely non-procedural, does the Preseident, who is evidently in sympathy with colonial domination, not stop him? Is that fair? No, it is not fair. ... Paragraph 159 "Íå çàãëóøèòü âàì ãîëîñ íàðîäîâ, ãîëîñ ïðàâäè, êîòîðèé çâó÷èòü è áóäåò çâó÷àòü. Êîíåö è ìîãèëà êîëîíèàëüíîìó ðàáñòâó! Äîëîé åãî! Íàäî ïîõîðîíèòü åãî, è ÷åì ãëóáæå, òåì ëó÷øå." "You will not be able to smother the voice of the peoples, the voice of truth, which rings aloud and will go on ringing. Death and destruction to colonial servitude! Away with it! We must bury it, and the deeper the better." ******************* The New York Times (10/13/60) reported that there were 2 shoe incidents on the same day, the first taking place during the above outburst which followed a statement by Phillipine delegate Mr. Sumulong and a second time during a statement by Mr. Wilcox, the American delegate. The second reaction came when Mr. Wilcox said this: (Paragraph 251) "... then I must point out that the Soviet Union refers in both documents to '...respect for the sovereign rights and territorial integrity of all States without exception ...'". (Paragraph 252.) "Now, this is a statement which raises very many interesting questions. Everyone here in the Assembly is fully aware of the sad fact that there are a number of States in Eastern Europe which do not have their complete independence." In the UN record, only the Romanian delegate's "point of order" response to Wilcox's comment is recorded, but as the NYT reported, the second Krushchev shoe banging took place at this time. Regarding the language, the NYT said this: ******************* "Representatives of the Soviet press agency Tass said the translated word 'lackey' came from Mr. Khrushchev's use of the word 'stavlenik' -- pronounced 'stahlevneek.' "The word 'jerk' is a translation of the Russian word 'kholvi' -- pronounced kholovie, with 'kh' as in Khrushchev -- used by the Soviet Minister." ******************* As Donna Seifer wrote (below) the NYT photo shows a light colored shoe resting on the desk in front of Krushchev. Whether you wish to call it a tiuflia, sandal, summer shoe, or air-conditioned footwear is up to you. The story told by the Soviet scholar who claims to have seen a photograph of the event showing that Krushchev had both his shoes on his feet, is not a likely one. It would have been virtually impossible to capture the feet in a photo in the General Assembly from the vantage point of the press box, especially as Krushchev was situated behind the USSR desk. That the Russian delegation bought new shoes in New York is certainly credible, but having them "on hand" as if to suggest that they were in a bag next to his chair, or something like that, and available to bang on the desk is also unlikely. For one thing, Krushchev had been in New York for the 15th GA session for several weeks already prior to the show-banging episode. If he had purchased sandals in NYC it is more likely that they were purchased in September when the weather was even warmer. For another, there is a certain degree of decorum maintained during the plenary sessions (excepting, of course, the frequent heckling and shoe-banging episodes), and one doesn't usually walk into the GA with shopping bags. Furthermore, although I'm no fashion history guru, the style of the shoe does not appear to be typical of an American summer shoe. To me it looks very European in style, and may just as well have been brought from home or possibly obtained elsewhere. On the other hand, imported shoes were not uncommon in NY at the time and there is no reason to doubt the story. Exactly where the shoes were actually procured is a less important aspect of the story, but if a sales clerk could be found to tell the story of how Krushchev selected this particular shoe, it would certainly make for a fun supplement in a weekend paper. The Columbia World of Quotations (1996) has this Khrushchev quote online (http://www.bartleby.com/66/52/32552.html): "Whether you like it or not, history is on our side. We will bury you. ATTRIBUTION: Nikita Khrushchev (1894–1971), Soviet premier. remark, Nov. 18, 1956, to Western diplomats, Kremlin, Moscow. quoted in Times (London, Nov. 19, 1956). I seem to recall a quote that included burying our grandchildren too, but can't place it right now. If anyone knows of other newspapers/magazines that wrote about the Khrushchev episodes at the UN, I'd be interested in obtaining the references. - Hanya Krill hanya at brama.com ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 12:14:41 -0700 From: Donna Seifer Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From STEPHENBPEARL at CS.COM Mon May 5 22:18:19 2003 From: STEPHENBPEARL at CS.COM (STEPHENBPEARL at CS.COM) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 18:18:19 EDT Subject: (no subject) Message-ID: If I may add a little oil to troubled waters - or fuel to the fire. I was Chief of the English Interpretation Section of the U.N. in New York from 1980 to 1994, and have previously had occasion to attempt to track down chapter and verse in connection with the Khrushchev shoe-banging episode. It was a little like trying to locate the other end of a rainbow; no one but a leprechaun ever found a crock of gold there. 1) Not only was Khrushchev never given the floor on that occasion, but delegations' desks were not equipped with microphones at that time. Hence, whatever Russian words he may have uttered to accompany his percussive tantrum are lost to history - although not to impressionistic second - and third-hand reconstructions - and for the reasons given above, neither should nor could have been interpreted into English, or any of the other U.N. official languages for that matter. 2) This point is corroborated by the response of Harold Macmillan, the U.K. Prime Minister at the time, who was noisily interrupted twice by Khrushchev on another occasion during the same 1960 Session of the General Assembly. At the time of the interruption Macmillan was speaking from the rostrum of the G.A. and was in possession of the floor and the only live microphone in the hall. After the second outburst, Macmillan turned towards the President of the Assembly, Ambassador Bolan of Ireland and said: "I should like that to be translated if he wants to say anything." Clearly, it had not been. Macmillan had been deploring the failure of the Paris summit meeting of the "Big Four" which had been aborted owing to Khrushchev's walk-out in protest at the lack of an official apology from President Eisenhower for the U -2 incident. The official Soviet version of Khrushchev's first attempt at heckling which was issued the following day was: "Don't send your spy planes to our country! Don't send your U-2s!" 3) On another occasion at the same Session when Khrushchev was formally in possession of the floor and the microphone, he did indeed call the Philippine Ambassador inter alia a "kholui" and a "stavlennik". An older colleague who had been responsible for the Russian -English interpretation at that meeting told me that he had said "jerk" for "kholui" and "stooge" 'for "stavlennik". Khrushchev may or may not have also used "lakei" in the same tirade. 4) The source of the apocryphal notion that it was on one of these occasions at the 1960 U.N. General Assembly that Khrushchev used the expression " Ya pokazhy vam kuzkinu mat, " may have been his own memoirs where he writes that he took a Philippine delegate severely to task, telling him, in an English version, "You'd better watch out, or we'll show you Kuzma's mother!" . His memories of what he said and did on various occasions have not always proved entirely reliable. 5) For purposes of simultaneous interpretation - as distinct from literary or other kinds of translation - discretion is always the better part of valour and it is always advisable not put to fine a point on utterances which are liable to give offence, something which, in any case, is not always an easy thing to recognise in the heat of battle! Whatever the etymology or origin of the expression, it seems to have come to mean the verbal equivalent of shaking one's fist and the somewhat open-ended "We'll show you!" would do the trick without over-committing the hapless interpreter. The endless medieval disputations about "my vas pokhoronim" also seem to lose sight of the fact that on the notorious occasion [s] when it was uttered, the interpreter's English version was the product of simultaneous interpretation and not of pondered translation. The implication is that the interpreter should have said something different or "better". "We will bury you" is not at all a bad rendering of the original. The unwary interpreter who strays too far from the literal in the course of heated debate is in something of a "lose-lose badly" situation. If he or she says "bury" for "pokhoronim", Monday morning translators may tell him/her loftily that it should have been "outlive" or "survive". If he/she says "outlive" or "survive" and another participant in the meeting then reacts to the Soviet/Russian delegate's remark, the original Russian speaker may hear through the reverse, English to Russian, interpretation that he is understood to have said "perezhit," or "vyzhit," when in fact he said "pokhoronit" and he will then, not entirely unresasonably, pillory the unfortunate interpreter for "not knowing how to translate a simple Russian word like 'pokhoronit' ". The complexities are endless. Like politics, simultaneous interpretation is the art of the possible, often in trying and even well-nigh impossible circumstances. To the extent that translation is an art rather than a science, there is practically no translation of a word, expression or phrase than cannot be second-guessed, even when it has been pondered in tranquillity. As any practitioner of the art can tell you, a rough-hewn, lame, halting or even deficient translation can in context be a heroic feat of simultaneous interpretation. Stephen Pearl ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hanya at BRAMA.COM Mon May 5 22:38:13 2003 From: hanya at BRAMA.COM (Hanya Krill) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 18:38:13 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: The UN record on Macmillan's comment: ******************* 29th September, General Assembly Plenary Session ... Paragraph 129 "We have, I think, to recognize that some governments believe -- and this is the objection that the Soviet representatives have often expressed in the past -- that inspection and control might be just a kind of cover for espionage. Of course, let us be frank -- none of us would particularly welcome into our countries the large number of officials from abroad who ..." [My comment -- apparently this is where Khrushchev interrupted Macmillan's speech. Khruschev's comment is not in the official record. Only the following appears in the documentation:] (UN italics) Mr. Khrushchev, Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, spoke in Russian from the Floor. (End italics) ... Paragraph 130 Mr. MACMILLAN, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom: I should like that to be tranlsated if he wants to say anything." ******************* - Hanya Krill hanya at brama.com On Sat, 3 May 2003 14:08:31 +0100, John Dunn wrote: [...] > >Neither article quotes Khrushchev Senior's exact words (though see >below), but the context described by the son does not necessarily >support the phrase involving Kuz'kina mat', and I wonder if there is >any unimpeachable source for this story. I assume the story about >the literal translation is apocryphal; Harold Macmillan, the British >Prime Minister at the time, is supposed to have said 'Would someone >please provide a translation', but this may also be apocryphal. > >In the final paragraph of the second article S. Khrushchev links the >footwear incident with the burying phrase. He gives the latter as: >'Vzjat' zastup i poglubzhe poxoronit' imperializm' and complains that >this was distorted by 'propagandists' to 'my vas poxoronim'. I must >admit that I always thought that the burying phrase came from a >different visit to the United States. > >John Dunn. > >-- >John Dunn >Department of Slavonic Studies >University of Glasgow >Hetherington Building >Bute Gardens >Glasgow >G12 8RS >Tel.: +44 (0)141-330-5591 >Fax: +44 (0)141-330-2297 >e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Tue May 6 02:05:20 2003 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 22:05:20 -0400 Subject: Kuz'kinu - wrong dates In-Reply-To: <3EB6CD82@wm2.uvic.ca> Message-ID: I am not sure whether this might be relevant but a Russian joke was: Q: Why was Allan Dulles forced to resign? A: He failed to do the following three things: 1) He could not find out where that [coal] mine was; 2) He could not find out what DOSAAF was doing besides collecting the membership dues; 3) He could not find the where the residence of Kuz'kina mat' was. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Mon, 5 May 2003, elenka wrote: > Dear colleagues: ......./snip/........... > > It would be interesting to find out how the myth of "kuzkina mat" accompanying > the shoe banging in the United Nations appeared in Russia. But that's another > query. > I would like to thank everyone who has responded to my Khrushchev query. > > Sincerely, > > Elena Baraban > University of Victoria ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cosmopolitan at ONLINE.NSK.SU Tue May 6 04:23:46 2003 From: cosmopolitan at ONLINE.NSK.SU (Cosmo) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:23:46 +0600 Subject: Spaces still available for programs in Russia Message-ID: International Language School COSMOPOLITAN, Novosibirsk, Russia, is pleased to announce that spaces are still available for the following programs: - SUMMER RUSSIAN COURSES in Novosibirsk; - RUSSIAN COURSES in Novosibirsk throughout the school year 2003/2004 We provide Russian courses for international students of all ages and levels of Russian. We believe that the individual communicative approach and complete language and cultural immersion, that we apply in our school, are the most effective methods of language learning and expanding your knowledge of the local culture. Everyone can expect a warm and friendly atmosphere along with professional service. Our goal is that all our students have the most enjoyable and worthwhile experience possible during their stay with us. We offer GENERAL RUSSIAN LANGUAGE COURSES, INTENSIVE RUSSIAN COURSES, BUSINESS RUSSIAN COURSES, EXAM PREPARATION RUSSIAN COURSE. Other courses on Russian Culture, Literature, History, Politics, Economy, Professional Development, etc., are available on request. You might also want to take a combination of coures. Our programs are aimed at achieving practical fluency and confidence in the use of the Russian language with the focus on the integration of all the four language learning components and skills (speaking, listening, reading and writing) and the emphasis on communication. Peculiarity of our courses consists in combination of individual intensive tuition and extensive social and cultural programs. We also believe that for a program of language tuition to be successful, you must live the language you are learning, and complete isolation from your own language is the only sure way to rapid progress. We suggest you get immersed in the Russian language 24 hours a day, and live with a hospitable Russian family, who will provide you with a room and board, and will also participate in your learning process through discussion sessions that are scheduled within your homestay. In addition to learning the Russian language, the cultural program of the school is an extraodinarily enriching and rewarding experience. Our program coordinator works individually with each student to organize various after-class activities and provide extensive weekend leisure options for the students. Novosibirsk is the third largest city of Russia (after Moscow and St.Petersburg) and the chief city of Siberia. Being the cultural, scientific and educational center of Siberia, surrounded by picturesque wooded and field areas, Novosibirsk is the best place for learning the Russian culture focusing on the importance of complete linguistic and cultural immersion, and provides incredible opportunities for experiencing the hospitality and cordiality Siberians are famed for. - 'LINKING THE PLANET' International Summer Language School This is an educational not-for-profit multi-cultural program that our International Language School "Cosmopolitan" runs during the summer '2003 in a picturesque wooded area outside of the city of Novosibirsk, Siberia, Russia, in four consecutive two-week sessions, with participation of volunteer teachers and international students from around the globe. You can apply as either a volunteer teacher or an international volunteer counselor or as an international student. * Have you always wanted to add some meaning to an overseas adventure? * Do you want a new, challenging experience? * Are you willing to gain experience, improve communication abilities, and develop skills that will help in your future employment? * Have you ever daydreamed about gaining insight into the Russian culture and life in a way no traveler could? If 'yes' is the answer, join our program - you still have a chance! If interested in attending or obtaining more information about these programs please email cosmopolitan at online.nsk.su We look forward to hearing from you and remain hopeful that we could establish a worthwhile co-operation. Regards, Natasha Bodrova, Director of International Language School "Cosmopolitan", Novosibirsk, Russia cosmopolitan at online.nsk.su ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eboudovs at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Mon May 5 05:36:49 2003 From: eboudovs at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Elena Boudovskaia) Date: Sun, 4 May 2003 22:36:49 -0700 Subject: mapping software Message-ID: I am trying to locate some software that lets one download (or draw, or scan) maps of some areas in the Slavic world and then put on them some dialectological data. Does anyone know such software? Someone recommended to me ArcView 3.x, but it costs $1,195.00 (ArcView 8.3 - even $1,500.00). Does anyone have any experience with, cheaper products like XMap, or anything else? Thanks a lot in advance, Elena ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From harolda at EMPIREONE.NET Tue May 6 10:32:52 2003 From: harolda at EMPIREONE.NET (Harold O Anthony) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 06:32:52 -0400 Subject: mapping software Message-ID: There is a free image mapper on http://www.pcoward.com/imagemapper/. -Natasha Anthony ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elena Boudovskaia" To: Sent: Monday, May 05, 2003 1:36 AM Subject: [SEELANGS] mapping software > I am trying to locate some software that lets one download (or draw, or > scan) maps of some areas in the Slavic world and then put on them some > dialectological data. Does anyone know such software? Someone recommended to > me ArcView 3.x, but it costs $1,195.00 (ArcView 8.3 - even $1,500.00). Does > anyone have any experience with, cheaper products like XMap, or anything > else? > > Thanks a lot in advance, > > Elena > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWU.EDU Tue May 6 14:52:01 2003 From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 10:52:01 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: William Taubman in _Khrushchev: The Man and His Era_ has a complete discussion of the shoe-banging incident with avrious eye-witness accounts (which differ). He also discusses the origin of the "We will bury you quote," albeit without direct reference to the original Russian. I have heard Russians quote this as both both Мы вас закопаем and Мы вас похорогим (zakopaem and poxoronim). When I was around 10 (1960), I distinctly remember RFE/RL ads on TV that featured an angry Khrushchev at a podium with a voice-over that said something like "Nikita Khrushchev is saying: 'We will bury you. Your children [I think -RR] and grandchildren [for sure - RR] will live under communism." Clearly, he wasn't saying "We will bury you," (at least not in that clip), since it's been well established that that remark was not made in a big public forum, but in a semi-rivate meeting. I've always been interested in the "Your grandchildren will live under communism," since the ultimate irony is that son Sergei took out U.S. citizenship a few years ago. Was that also part of the "We will bury you comment"? All in all, it's very disappointing to realize that none of this seems to have been captured on tape for posterity. I always thought that if one searched long enough one could find an old film of the shoe-banging as well as "We will bury you" and "Your grandchildren..." What a let-down to know that these defining Khrushchevian moments (which actually got me interested in Russian) appear to be lost forever. -Rich Robin _________________________________ Richard Robin, Associate Professor, Chair German and Slavic Dept. The George Washington University Washington, DC 20008 rrobin at gwu.edu http://home.gwu.edu/~rrobin Читаю по-русски во всех кодировках. Chitayu po-russki vo vsex kodirovkax. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Dunn" To: Sent: Saturday, May 03, 2003 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > May I muddy the waters further by referring you to two articles which > appeared in Izvestiia last year. These are an interview with (22 > August 2002) and a subsequent article by Sergei Khrushchev (8 > September 2002). Both are available on-line at: > > http://main.izvestia.ru/person/article22772 > > and > > http://main.izvestia.ru/world/article23548 > > These give slightly contradictory accounts of what the item of > footwear was, how it came to be in Khrushchev's hand and what he > actually did with it. > > Neither article quotes Khrushchev Senior's exact words (though see > below), but the context described by the son does not necessarily > support the phrase involving Kuz'kina mat', and I wonder if there is > any unimpeachable source for this story. I assume the story about > the literal translation is apocryphal; Harold Macmillan, the British > Prime Minister at the time, is supposed to have said 'Would someone > please provide a translation', but this may also be apocryphal. > > In the final paragraph of the second article S. Khrushchev links the > footwear incident with the burying phrase. He gives the latter as: > 'Vzjat' zastup i poglubzhe poxoronit' imperializm' and complains that > this was distorted by 'propagandists' to 'my vas poxoronim'. I must > admit that I always thought that the burying phrase came from a > different visit to the United States. > > John Dunn. > > > >Dear colleagues: > > > >I am trying to find precise information on Khrushchev's show banging in the UN > >Assembly. On Wednesday 12 October 1960, all national papers commented on > >Nikita Sergeyevich and his famous shoe banging. Apparently, Khrushchev > >protested the speech of the head of the Philippine delegation, Senator Lorenzo > >Sumulong. In anger, he called the senator "a jerk, a stooge and a lackey of > >imperialism." In the Russian version, though, the shoe banging, it seems, was > >accompanied by a wonderful idiomatic phrase "ia vam pokazhu kuzkinu mat." I > >would very much like to find out the English translation of this phrase. I > >mean, the version they used when they had to translate it in the UN. Since > >such a phrase is extremely difficult to translate, I wouldn't be surprised if > >they used literal translation - sth like "Kuzkin's mother." In this case, it > >would be also nice to learn how the phrase can be translated into idiomatic > >English. "I'll spit into your eye" is a possible translation but it does not > >really capture the comic aspect of the Russian phrase. > > > >Have you ever come across any useful information on this? > > > >Many thanks in advance. > > > > > >elenka at uvic.ca > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- > John Dunn > Department of Slavonic Studies > University of Glasgow > Hetherington Building > Bute Gardens > Glasgow > G12 8RS > Tel.: +44 (0)141-330-5591 > Fax: +44 (0)141-330-2297 > e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jeffhold at INDIANA.EDU Tue May 6 14:49:09 2003 From: jeffhold at INDIANA.EDU (Jeff Holdeman) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 09:49:09 -0500 Subject: mapping software Message-ID: Dear Elena, I have to admit that I took a "cop out" solution to this problem when I was finishing my dissertation at Ohio State last summer. I tried using ArcView at one of the school's computer labs (in the geography building), but after a few hours I gave up. (I even offered to pay one of the graduate students to give me a tutoring session, but no one agreed!). I asked several geographers for other software suggestions, but no one had any answers which worked. I finally decided to just use Photoshop. I scanned in a map of the area (from an atlas) and saved it as one "layer". I then created a second "layer" and with the pencil tool, traced the geopolitical boundaries that I needed and marked all of the towns that were relevant. On another layer, I created longitude and latitude lines (based on the atlas's markings). When I got my map to look okay, I deleted the first layer which held the original atlas scan. I then saved my map and made a backup copy. I took the backup copy and "flattened the layers", then saved a copy. From there, every time I needed to make a map with data on it, I took a backup copy of the the flattened copy, created a new layer, and then added the data with Photoshop's drawing tools. You can create a number of effects by playing with the Photoshop tools and controls. You can enter your data in different colors, or you can use the effects to create the patterns that are similar to ones used on professional dialect maps. Working like this, you can then keep your dialect data on a layer separate from the map layer. Then, you can copy a layer and superimpose it on another map. For conference presentations, print a copy of the base map onto an overhead transparency. For my data, I copy the layer which contains a certain dialect feature and then print it in color on an overhead transparency. I then create other overhead transparencies for the other features. When I am done, I can place the base map on the overhead projector, then lay the dialect features on the map. It is especially effective to then lay down multiple features at the same time to show overlapping. Suggestions: * Save clean backup copies of your maps to work from. If something goes terribly wrong, you can throw away the copy that you're working on and start from a clean map, rather than having to fix the original. This is also the value of working in layers. * Save a copy of your finished base map which does not have the layers flattened, in case you spot a mistake later. * My version of Photoshop came packaged with my scanner, which cost $150. The version is a limited version, but it contains all of the features that I need. * If you are not familiar with "layers" in Photoshop, open Help and do a search for "layers" for a quick explanation of what they are, how to create new ones, how to copy them, how to switch from one to another, and how to flatten them. * One huge advantage of using Photoshop (vs. ArcView or some other cartographic software) is that there are a *lot* more people who know Photoshop well who can provide support. My dream was to find software that I could enter longitude and latitude coordinates of villages and have them entered onto a map that I could then manipulate. My Photoshop solution was not as elegant, but it worked quite well. Jeff Dr. Jeffrey D. Holdeman Indiana University jeffhold at indiana.edu >I am trying to locate some software that lets one download (or draw, or >scan) maps of some areas in the Slavic world and then put on them some >dialectological data. Does anyone know such software? Someone recommended to >me ArcView 3.x, but it costs $1,195.00 (ArcView 8.3 - even $1,500.00). Does >anyone have any experience with, cheaper products like XMap, or anything >else? > >Thanks a lot in advance, > >Elena > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eginzbur at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU Tue May 6 17:22:30 2003 From: eginzbur at MIDWAY.UCHICAGO.EDU (Elizabeth Ginzburg) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 12:22:30 -0500 Subject: ruthenia news In-Reply-To: <00ce01c31339$e9bc4800$0200a8c0@if> Message-ID: Dorogoi Ilon, zhal', chto Vy ne priedete! ne mogli by Vy pomestit' ob'iavlenie o chicagskoi konferencii "Tyutchev i ego vremia. ceeres/uchicago.edu/news.html Spasibo! Liza At 22:09 05.05.2003 +0300, you wrote: >NOVOSTI SAJTA "RUTHENIA" > >V razdele "Antologija pushkinistiki" (http://www.ruthenia.ru/pushkin.html) >otkryt proekt "Pushkiniana Tartuensia" >http://www.ruthenia.ru/tartu.html > >Programma konferencii, posvjashhennoj stoletiju N. A. Zabolockogo (Moskva, >24 >aprelja 2003) >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526313.html > >Konferencija "Central'naja Rossija i literatura russkogo zarubezh'ja >(1917-1939)" >(Orel, 24-25 aprelja 2003) >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526413.html > >Konferencija "N. M. JAzykov i literatura pushkinskoj jepohi" (Simbirsk, >24-26 >aprelja 2003) >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526433.html > >Konferencija "Pojetika prozy" (Smolensk, 24-27 aprelja 2003) >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526453.html > >Konferencija "Literatura: mif i real'nost'" (Kazan', 5-7 maja 2003) >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526454.html > >Anonsirovannaja ranee konferencija ""My" kak ontologicheskaja kategorija >russkoj >kul'tury" (RGGU 15-16 maja 2003) ne sostoitsja. > >Konferencija-festival' "Pojeticheskij jazyk rubezha HH-HHI vekov i >sovremennye >literaturnye strategii" (Moskva, 16-19 maja 2003) >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526214.html >Programma >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526213.html > >Konferencija CAS (Galifaks, 29-31 maja 2003) >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526393.html > >XIII Vinogradovskie chtenija (SPb, 27-30 ijunja 2003) >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526354.html >Informacionnoe pis'mo >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526353.html > >Konferencija "Pushkin i sny. Sny v fol'klore, iskusstve i zhizni cheloveka" >(Pushkinskie Gory, 3-7 ijulja 2003) >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526254.html >Informacionnoe pis'mo >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526253.html > >Konferencija "Problemy literatury XX veka" (Severodvinsk, 1-3 oktjabrja >2003) >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526474.html >Informacionnoe pis'mo >http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526473.html > >V razdel "Rusistika na Vebe" dobavlena ssylka na stranicu fakul'teta russkoj >filologii Kazanskogo gosudarstvennogo pedagogicheskogo universiteta >http://ruthenia.ru/web/russia.html#K > >----------------------------- >Ilon Fraiman >staff at ruthenia.ru >http://www.ruthenia.ru/ >----------------------------- >Adres dlja podpiski na rassylku novostej sajta "Ruthenia" >http://www.ruthenia.ru/subscribe.html > >CHtoby otkazat'sja ot rassylki, zajdite, pozhalujsta, na stranicu >http://www.ruthenia.ru/subscribe.html ili napishite pis'mo po adresu >staff at ruthenia.ru >----------------------------- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From laurengl at PTWI.NET Tue May 6 19:07:04 2003 From: laurengl at PTWI.NET (Lauren Leighton) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 14:07:04 -0500 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <007901c313df$0d1d13b0$12f2a480@germslavrobin> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Richard Robin Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 9:52 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging William Taubman in _Khrushchev: The Man and His Era_ has a complete discussion of the shoe-banging incident with avrious eye-witness accounts (which differ). He also discusses the origin of the "We will bury you quote," albeit without direct reference to the original Russian. I have heard Russians quote this as both both Мы вас закопаем and Мы вас похорогим (zakopaem and poxoronim). When I was around 10 (1960), I distinctly remember RFE/RL ads on TV that featured an angry Khrushchev at a podium with a voice-over that said something like "Nikita Khrushchev is saying: 'We will bury you. Your children [I think -RR] and grandchildren [for sure - RR] will live under communism." Clearly, he wasn't saying "We will bury you," (at least not in that clip), since it's been well established that that remark was not made in a big public forum, but in a semi-rivate meeting. I've always been interested in the "Your grandchildren will live under communism," since the ultimate irony is that son Sergei took out U.S. citizenship a few years ago. Was that also part of the "We will bury you comment"? All in all, it's very disappointing to realize that none of this seems to have been captured on tape for posterity. I always thought that if one searched long enough one could find an old film of the shoe-banging as well as "We will bury you" and "Your grandchildren..." What a let-down to know that these defining Khrushchevian moments (which actually got me interested in Russian) appear to be lost forever. Lost for sure? I have a distinct memory of the incident on film. Perhaps "Time Marches on," "Pathe News," or one of the other newreels? I can't imagine that the old USIA has not stored its propaganda films with the incident foregrounded. I know they were shown in Finland, probably in the American Center. -Rich Robin _________________________________ Richard Robin, Associate Professor, Chair German and Slavic Dept. The George Washington University Washington, DC 20008 rrobin at gwu.edu http://home.gwu.edu/~rrobin Читаю по-русски во всех кодировках. Chitayu po-russki vo vsex kodirovkax. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From esjogren at NC.RR.COM Tue May 6 20:41:06 2003 From: esjogren at NC.RR.COM (Ernie Sjogren) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 16:41:06 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: [Richard Robin] > All in all, it's very disappointing to realize that none of this [K's shoe banging] seems to have been captured on tape for posterity. I always thought that if one searched long enough one could find an old film of the shoe-banging as well as "We will bury you" and "Your grandchildren..." What a let-down to know that these defining Khrushchevian moments (which actually got me interested in Russian) appear to be lost forever. Although my memory may be in error, I recall seeing the shoe banging more than once on American television in the early sixties. The first time was probably the original incident, which took place when my mother's parents, Russian speakers, were visiting my family. (How grandmother rolled her eyes at K's antics! "The only good thing the Soviets have done for Russia is improve education," she said.) But my recollection is of having seen the shoe banging at least one other time, perhaps as part of a documentary. Film or videotape of the incident may very well survive today. Ernie Sjogren ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gsabo at JCU.EDU Tue May 6 21:02:20 2003 From: gsabo at JCU.EDU (Gerald J. Sabo) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 17:02:20 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: I recall that within the last few months on the electronic site of the New York Times there was a photograph of Khrushchev banging away, and Andrei Gromyko was sitting nearby. The photograph was for sale through perhaps e-Bay for nearly two hundred dollars. So there does seem to be some photographic evidence of the incident. Jerry Sabo Ernie Sjogren wrote: > Although my memory may be in error, I recall seeing the shoe banging more > than once on American television in the early sixties. The first time was > probably the original incident, which took place when my mother's parents, > Russian speakers, were visiting my family. (How grandmother rolled her eyes > at K's antics! "The only good thing the Soviets have done for Russia is > improve education," she said.) But my recollection is of having seen the > shoe banging at least one other time, perhaps as part of a documentary. > Film or videotape of the incident may very well survive today. > Ernie Sjogren ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mellamolinc at YAHOO.COM Tue May 6 21:15:17 2003 From: mellamolinc at YAHOO.COM (Jep) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 17:15:17 -0400 Subject: Minsk Russian program, thoughts? Message-ID: All, Can someone tell me what they think of this language program in Minsk? http://www.linkinminsk.com/study.html It looks great, but it's a new program. Is it safe to study in Belarus? Jep ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ad5537 at WAYNE.EDU Tue May 6 22:50:50 2003 From: ad5537 at WAYNE.EDU (Kenneth Brostrom) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 18:50:50 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <003101c3140f$d187f8c0$cdddc718@esjog> Message-ID: For what it's worth, I also retain this memory. I'm sure I saw it on television, perhaps more than once. Ken Brostrom >[Richard Robin] > All in all, it's very disappointing to realize that none >of this [K's shoe banging] seems to have been captured on tape for >posterity. I always thought that if one searched long enough one could find >an old film of the shoe-banging as well as "We will bury you" and "Your >grandchildren..." What a let-down to know that these defining Khrushchevian >moments (which actually got me interested in Russian) appear to be lost >forever. > >Although my memory may be in error, I recall seeing the shoe banging more >than once on American television in the early sixties. The first time was >probably the original incident, which took place when my mother's parents, >Russian speakers, were visiting my family. (How grandmother rolled her eyes >at K's antics! "The only good thing the Soviets have done for Russia is >improve education," she said.) But my recollection is of having seen the >shoe banging at least one other time, perhaps as part of a documentary. >Film or videotape of the incident may very well survive today. > >Ernie Sjogren > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Kenneth Brostrom Assoc. Prof. of Russian Dept. of German and Slavic Studies 443 Manoogian Hall Wayne State University Detroit, MI 48202 Telephone: (313) 577-6238 FAX (313) 577-3266 E-mail: kenneth.brostrom at wayne.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dmg33 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue May 6 23:25:20 2003 From: dmg33 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Douglas Greenfield) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 19:25:20 -0400 Subject: Call for Papers: The Icon and Modernity at Columbia University Oct 17-18 Message-ID: Call for Papers: The Icon and Modernity: Mystery, Meaning, Means A Conference at Columbia University October 17-18, 2003 The Harriman Institute of Columbia University announces a call for papers for The Icon and Modernity. This two-day event will bring scholars and artists together to exchange views on the exhibition, exposition, and use of the Orthodox icon since its rediscovery in nineteenth-century Russia and Eastern Europe. Interdisciplinary panels will explore problems of the icon’s status as cult object, art object, political object, artifact, image, and text in the modern period. Moscow artists Komar and Melamid will present "In Search of Religion" at a Friday evening reception and art exhibition. Conference participants include: Gregoire Aslanoff (Université de Paris-Sorbonne) Robert Bird (University of Chicago) Richard Gustafson (Columbia University) Stephen Hutchings (University of Surrey) John McGuckin (Union Theological Seminary) Wendy Salmond (Chapman University) Oleg Tarasov (author of Icon and Devotion, Reaktion Books, 2002) Yuri Tsivian (University of Chicago) Presenters are invited to consider a broad range of topics related to the creation, reception and discursive formation of the icon in the modern era, including: Icon theology and the philosophy of language Icon, photography, and film The icon and literature The icon and everyday life The practice and politics of icon conservation New museology models and cultures of collecting Spectacle and contemplation Icon workshops at home and abroad The gendered icon Icon and memory Please send inquiries and abstracts by July 1, 2003 to iconconf at columbia.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dberman at SSC.WISC.EDU Wed May 7 01:32:01 2003 From: dberman at SSC.WISC.EDU (Danielle Berman) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 20:32:01 -0500 Subject: map software Message-ID: ESRI - the makers of ArcView- offer a scaled down version called ArcExplorer as a free download. The web address is http://www.esri.com/software/arcexplorer/index.html What you mentioned should be easy enough to do on this software, but if you have questions about it, feel free to ask. best, Danielle dberman at ssc.wisc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From papazian at WAM.UMD.EDU Wed May 7 02:23:40 2003 From: papazian at WAM.UMD.EDU (e. papazian) Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 22:23:40 -0400 Subject: Vassily Aksyonov reading in College Park Message-ID: To list members living in the Washington, DC area: The School of Languages, College of Arts & Humanities, Russian Area Studies Program, and Russian Club at University of Maryland, College Park present: Vassily Aksyonov reading from his latest work Friday, May 9, 2003 5 pm Art/Soc. Building, 2203 Vassily Aksyonov will be coming to Maryland to read from and talk about his latest works (in both English and Russian), and take questions from the audience. Reception will follow at approximately 6:30pm. The event will take place at University of Maryland, College Park, in the Art & Sociology Building, Room 2203 (floor 1R). The building is easily accessible from parking Lot 1, to the right of Tawes Theater (when looking from the parking lot). (To see a map go to: http://www.parking.umd.edu/themap/, Art & Sociology is building #146) This event is open to everyone! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From uladzik at MAILBOX.HU Wed May 7 08:49:52 2003 From: uladzik at MAILBOX.HU (Uladzimir Katkouski) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:49:52 +0200 Subject: Minsk Russian program, thoughts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jep wrote: > > Is it safe to study in Belarus? > I don't know if there are concrete studies or data about that. I remember seeing an article several months ago on naviny.by or some other news site that said that Minsk was one of the safest capitals in Eastern Europe, I think second after Bratislava. But, please, double check that. Over all, Belarus is quite safer and quieter than Russia. But, I guess, not as safe as Baltic states. As for that school, I can't say anything, because I don't know it. Btw, it's a pity that they don't offer Belarusan. :/ Regards, Uladzimir http://pravapis.org/ -------------------------------------------------- What\'s your MailBox address? - http://mailbox.hu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From uladzik at MAILBOX.HU Wed May 7 08:52:00 2003 From: uladzik at MAILBOX.HU (Uladzimir Katkouski) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:52:00 +0200 Subject: Minsk Russian program, thoughts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jep wrote: > > Is it safe to study in Belarus? > I don't know if there are concrete studies or data about that. I remember seeing an article several months ago on naviny.by or some other news site that said that Minsk was one of the safest capitals in Eastern Europe, I think second after Bratislava. But, please, double check that. Over all, Belarus is quite safer and quieter than Russia. But, I guess, not as safe as Baltic states. As for that school, I can't say anything, because I don't know it. Btw, it's a pity that they don't offer Belarusan. :/ Regards, Uladzimir http://pravapis.org/ -------------------------------------------------- What\'s your MailBox address? - http://mailbox.hu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWU.EDU Wed May 7 13:42:16 2003 From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:42:16 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: I am not suggesting that people are having false memories of the shoe incident, but the fact that Taubman when discussing whether the incident actually took place(!) mentions no video or film record - plus the absence from such a clip in various cold war documentaries (like CNN's exhaustive Cold War series) - makes me think that no such clip exists. On the other hand, the UN scene was reenacted many times, mostly in spoofs both on TV and in the movies. -Rich Richard Robin, Associate Professor German and Slavic Dept. The George Washington University Washington, DC 20008 rrobin at gwu.edu http://home.gwu.edu/~rrobin Читаю по-русски во всех кодировках. Chitayu po-russki vo vsex kodirovkax. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kenneth Brostrom" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 6:50 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > For what it's worth, I also retain this memory. I'm sure I saw it on > television, perhaps more than once. > > Ken Brostrom > > >[Richard Robin] > All in all, it's very disappointing to realize that none > >of this [K's shoe banging] seems to have been captured on tape for > >posterity. I always thought that if one searched long enough one could find > >an old film of the shoe-banging as well as "We will bury you" and "Your > >grandchildren..." What a let-down to know that these defining Khrushchevian > >moments (which actually got me interested in Russian) appear to be lost > >forever. > > > >Although my memory may be in error, I recall seeing the shoe banging more > >than once on American television in the early sixties. The first time was > >probably the original incident, which took place when my mother's parents, > >Russian speakers, were visiting my family. (How grandmother rolled her eyes > >at K's antics! "The only good thing the Soviets have done for Russia is > >improve education," she said.) But my recollection is of having seen the > >shoe banging at least one other time, perhaps as part of a documentary. > >Film or videotape of the incident may very well survive today. > > > >Ernie Sjogren > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > Kenneth Brostrom > Assoc. Prof. of Russian > Dept. of German and Slavic Studies > 443 Manoogian Hall > Wayne State University > Detroit, MI 48202 > Telephone: (313) 577-6238 > FAX (313) 577-3266 > E-mail: kenneth.brostrom at wayne.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beth_holmgren at UNC.EDU Wed May 7 13:55:11 2003 From: beth_holmgren at UNC.EDU (Beth Holmgren) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:55:11 -0400 Subject: Bialoszewski translation Message-ID: I am interested in getting Madeline Levine's translation of Miron Bialoszewski's A MEMOIR OF THE WARSAW UPRISING back into print. Would you please reply to me offlist (beth_holmgren at unc.edu) if you have used or are planning to use this book in your courses? Many thanks! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU Wed May 7 14:25:03 2003 From: pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (pjs) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 10:25:03 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <001301c3149e$7b7417e0$0301a8c0@vaio> Message-ID: I wouldn't be surprised if our (US) organs of disinformation fabricated that footage that we all remember seeing. You know, exactly the same way they've fabricated the "weapons of mass destruction" that Saddam is supposed to have. (Actually what I remember is a photomontage with an ominous voice over) Peter Scotto > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > I am not suggesting that people are having false memories of the shoe > incident, but the fact that Taubman when discussing whether the incident > actually took place(!) mentions no video or film record - plus the absence > from such a clip in various cold war documentaries (like CNN's exhaustive > Cold War series) - makes me think that no such clip exists. On the other > hand, the UN scene was reenacted many times, mostly in spoofs both on TV and > in the movies. > > -Rich > > Richard Robin, Associate Professor > German and Slavic Dept. > The George Washington University > Washington, DC 20008 > rrobin at gwu.edu > http://home.gwu.edu/~rrobin > ����� ��-������ �� ���� ����������. > Chitayu po-russki vo vsex kodirovkax. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kenneth Brostrom" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 6:50 PM > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging > > > > For what it's worth, I also retain this memory. I'm sure I saw it on > > television, perhaps more than once. > > > > Ken Brostrom > > > > >[Richard Robin] > All in all, it's very disappointing to realize that > none > > >of this [K's shoe banging] seems to have been captured on tape for > > >posterity. I always thought that if one searched long enough one could > find > > >an old film of the shoe-banging as well as "We will bury you" and "Your > > >grandchildren..." What a let-down to know that these defining > Khrushchevian > > >moments (which actually got me interested in Russian) appear to be lost > > >forever. > > > > > >Although my memory may be in error, I recall seeing the shoe banging more > > >than once on American television in the early sixties. The first time > was > > >probably the original incident, which took place when my mother's > parents, > > >Russian speakers, were visiting my family. (How grandmother rolled her > eyes > > >at K's antics! "The only good thing the Soviets have done for Russia is > > >improve education," she said.) But my recollection is of having seen the > > >shoe banging at least one other time, perhaps as part of a documentary. > > >Film or videotape of the incident may very well survive today. > > > > > >Ernie Sjogren > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > -- > > Kenneth Brostrom > > Assoc. Prof. of Russian > > Dept. of German and Slavic Studies > > 443 Manoogian Hall > > Wayne State University > > Detroit, MI 48202 > > Telephone: (313) 577-6238 > > FAX (313) 577-3266 > > E-mail: kenneth.brostrom at wayne.edu > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ns7 at ST-ANDREWS.AC.UK Wed May 7 14:17:38 2003 From: ns7 at ST-ANDREWS.AC.UK (Natalia Samoilova) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 15:17:38 +0100 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: Those who follow the discussion of Khrushchev's banging & swearing might be interested in the interview with the "Kremlin interpreter" V.Sukhodrev who witnessed the shoe banging incident sitting in the back row. In this interview he also tells about Kuz'kina mat', though he was not present on this occasion. Interestingly, he says that it turned out that Khrushchev had his own interpretation of this expression, not the one you can find in the dictionary - simply "you'll see something you've never seen before". The text of the interview is at http://trworkshop.net/faces/sukhodrev.htm Natalia Samoilova. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Wed May 7 18:15:48 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 11:15:48 -0700 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <015e01c314a3$6a581c90$6401a8c0@ada> Message-ID: Those who study oral vs written speech have seen that an oral interview would be encoded somewhat differently when it comes into print. With Khrushchev the issue was usually the opposite, he was prone to extemporizing, then some of his extemporization would not make it into the official text of the speech. I remember my grandfather telling me that in one May day speech he said "Esli by idei Marksa da maslom pomazat'..." That statement also did not make it into print. Some stuff he said caught on. I remember our grammar teacher quoting Khrushchev "a ja, desushaka, eshche porot' budu." She adored him (as she adored Stalin before him). It's Khrushchev's slightly bafoonish qualities of an uneducated peasant that made it so much fun. Jokes about him outlived his reign. He was replaced by a very boring troyka who were very impersonal, never smiled and stuck to the protocol. _____________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sergej at CICDGO.COM Wed May 7 16:49:50 2003 From: sergej at CICDGO.COM (Sergej Buchholz) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 09:49:50 -0700 Subject: Russian Exchange for HS Students Message-ID: This summer, NorthWest Student Exchange (NWSE) offers high school students of Russian and high school-aged Russian heritage speakers an affordable way to improve their Russian language skills while living with a host family in Russia and attending an intensive Russian language course. By stepping beyond the role of a tourist and participating in everyday life, students have the opportunity to build friendships and gain valuable insights into Russian culture. The NWSE program in Vladimir, a medium-sized 1000-year old Russian city located 120 miles northeast of Moscow, costs about half of what most other organizations charge and includes: - A three-week homestay with a carefully screened Russian family in Vladimir (breakfast and dinner provided) - Intensive Russian language instruction - Additional hands-on Russian lessons outside the classroom (e.g. in stores, the marketplace, and public transportation) - Two-night stay in Moscow with excursions (including train tickets and meals) - Insurance - Local excursions and activities (including excursion to Suzdal) - Ongoing support from NWSE’s partner organization in Vladimir (including 24-hour emergency phone number) - Airport transfers between Moscow and Vladimir - Health Insurance - Pre-Departure and Post-Arrival Orientations - Visa support (including official invitation) For more information and an application form, please contact Sergej Buchholz by e-mail at sergej at nwse.com or by phone at 206-527-0917. The deadline for applications is May 23. Please feel free to forward this message to anyone who may be interested in this program. NorthWest Student Exchange (NWSE) is a non-profit international educational exchange organization designated by the U.S. Department of State and listed with the Council on Standards for International Educational Travel (CSIET). Additional information about NWSE can be found at www.nwse.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tritt002 at MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU Wed May 7 17:29:31 2003 From: tritt002 at MAROON.TC.UMN.EDU (Michael Trittipo) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 12:29:31 -0500 Subject: mapping software In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jeff Holdeman wrote: > Dear Elena, > > . . . I finally decided to just use Photoshop. I scanned in a map of the > area (from an atlas) and saved it as one "layer". I then . . .. It might be worth checking out Manifold: http://www.manifold.net/products/maps_and_data_home.html It's about the same price ($250) as Microsoft's MapPoint, but looks more flexible. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jataubman at AMHERST.EDU Wed May 7 17:39:29 2003 From: jataubman at AMHERST.EDU (Jane A. Taubman) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 13:39:29 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: I am posting the following on behalf of Bill Taubman, who has been following the SEELANGS discussion with interest and occasional amusement: As it happens, the very first, and one of the longest "foot" notes in my biography of Khrushchev, (note #1 to the Preface, which appears on p. 657) is devoted to the infernal question of whether Khrushchev banged his shoe at the United Nations in September 1960 or simply brandished it. The note refers to an interview I had with an eyewitness, a New York Times correspondent who was in the General Assembly hall that day and has contended ever since that Khrushchev brandished but did not bang. But the note also cites sources who claim that Khrushchev actually banged the shoe. When I gave a talk about the book at the Wilson Center in Washington on March 25, three more eyewitnesses "testified": One said the shoe was banged, the other said it was merely brandished, and the third, who asserted he was standing right being Nikita Sergeyevich, reported that, while holding the shoe in his hand, Khrushchev banged the desk in front of him but that only the heel of his hand, and not the shoe itself, touched the table. As if that isn't enough, I then received a letter from a former professional photographer who recalls that, along with photographers from New York City papers, wire services, and free lancers, he was watching the scene from a UN booth for still photographers. According to this source, "Every camera in the booth was trained on Khrushchev, waiting for him to use the shoe," but "he only put it on again and left. None of us missed the picture--which would have been a serious professional error." And so: Brandished? Or Banged? Or this photographer's conclusion: Khrushchev "did not bang his shoe on the desk," but "he certainly meant to do so." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenka at UVIC.CA Wed May 7 18:37:24 2003 From: elenka at UVIC.CA (elenka) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 11:37:24 -0700 Subject: verification -- Khrushchev's appearances on TV Message-ID: Dear colleagues: Several people remember seeing Khrushchev and the shoe incident on American TV. Dr. Robin says it was in the ads by Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty Would on TV. Is there a way to verify this information? Did RFE/RL have a TV news program on American TV? or just advertised their service? Would there be an archive of the clips broadcast on TV? We're dealing with precise memories of cultural myths, not "false memories" of history. In the case of K. cultural myths became part of the CW history. Elena Baraban elenka at uvic.ca ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Wed May 7 19:06:10 2003 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 15:06:10 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <3EB944D1.1030701@amherst.edu> Message-ID: I am surprised if there was no banging. Not just because I have never heard about brandishing a shoe, but because there is no meaning that could be associated with brandishing a shoe in the Russian culture. As to banging, then it is simply a way of interruption. Did Khrushchev mean to bang using his shoe but used only his hand? The idea was to make a loud noise, and the shoe would be a better tool, and we know that it was in (the) hand. So, logically, brandishing a shoe does not sound right; however, the facts often do not follow any logic. Regarding Natalia Samoilova's comment on Khrushchev's interpretation of kuz'kina mat' expression, I think that it is correct. My understanding is that it simply means that somebody plans to show much more than was ever expected from him/her, and to be proud of it. This does not exclude that "more" might mean something quite threatening. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Wed, 7 May 2003, Jane A. Taubman wrote: > I am posting the following on behalf of Bill Taubman, who has been > following the SEELANGS discussion with interest and occasional amusement: > > As it happens, the very first, and one of the longest "foot" notes > in my biography of Khrushchev, (note #1 to the Preface, which appears on > p. 657) is devoted to the infernal question of whether Khrushchev banged > his shoe at the United Nations in September 1960 or simply brandished > it. The note refers to an interview I had with an eyewitness, a New York > Times correspondent who was in the General Assembly hall that day and > has contended ever since that Khrushchev brandished but did not bang. > But the note also cites sources who claim that Khrushchev actually > banged the shoe. When I gave a talk about the book at the Wilson Center > in Washington on March 25, three more eyewitnesses "testified": One said > the shoe was banged, the other said it was merely brandished, and the > third, who asserted he was standing right being Nikita Sergeyevich, > reported that, while holding the shoe in his hand, Khrushchev banged the > desk in front of him but that only the heel of his hand, and not the > shoe itself, touched the table. As if that isn't enough, I then received > a letter from a former professional photographer who recalls that, along > with photographers from New York City papers, wire services, and free > lancers, he was watching the scene from a UN booth for still > photographers. According to this source, "Every camera in the booth > was trained on Khrushchev, waiting for him to use the shoe," but "he > only put it on again and left. None of us missed the picture--which > would have been a serious professional error." And so: Brandished? Or > Banged? Or this photographer's conclusion: Khrushchev "did not bang his > shoe on the desk," but "he certainly meant to do so." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWU.EDU Wed May 7 20:20:15 2003 From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 16:20:15 -0400 Subject: verification -- Khrushchev's appearances on TV Message-ID: The RFE/RL ad was just that - an ad using scare tactics. Since the official story back then was that RFE/RL was privately funded (they actually lied outright about the fact that they were on the U.S. government dole), they ostensibly had to raise private funds. Another RFE/RL commercial should a family somewhere in Eastern Europe huddled around a radio listening to "On Broadway" - an interesting selection since the storyline of the song is about a down-and-outer whose only dream is to make it on Broadway. The ads had a big effect on me. I asked my mother if we contributed to RFE/RL. "Not a chance," she answered. "They egged on the Hungarians in 1956." 'The U.S. will come to your rescue,'" my mother quoted the radio as saying. Of course, we ended up helping the Hungarians then about as much as we aided the anti-Sadddam forces in 1991 Iraq. -Rich Robin _________________________________ Richard Robin, Associate Professor, Chair German and Slavic Dept. The George Washington University Washington, DC 20008 rrobin at gwu.edu http://home.gwu.edu/~rrobin Читаю по-русски во всех кодировках. Chitayu po-russki vo vsex kodirovkax. ----- Original Message ----- From: "elenka" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 2:37 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] verification -- Khrushchev's appearances on TV > Dear colleagues: > > Several people remember seeing Khrushchev and the shoe incident on American > TV. Dr. Robin says it was in the ads by Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty Would > on TV. Is there a way to verify this information? Did RFE/RL have a TV news > program on American TV? or just advertised their service? Would there be an > archive of the clips broadcast on TV? > We're dealing with precise memories of cultural myths, not "false memories" of > history. In the case of K. cultural myths became part of the CW history. > > Elena Baraban > elenka at uvic.ca > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From k.r.hauge at EAST.UIO.NO Wed May 7 21:02:45 2003 From: k.r.hauge at EAST.UIO.NO (Kjetil =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E5?= Hauge) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 23:02:45 +0200 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: During an image search on the web for pictures of N.K. at the UN, I came across this recording of his interruption of Macmillan's speech: . -- --- Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo. Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140 --- (this msg sent from home, +47/67148424, fax +1/5084372444) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kalbouss at MAC.COM Wed May 7 21:18:10 2003 From: kalbouss at MAC.COM (George Kalbouss) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 17:18:10 -0400 Subject: verification -- Khrushchev's appearances on TV In-Reply-To: <3EB96E53@wm2.uvic.ca> Message-ID: Regarding people wondering if Khrushchev really banged his shoe at the UN, I can't believe this is going on! I so well remember seeing this incident both on t.v. and in the Newsreel movie house on W. 72 St Newsreel movie hous i.e. Movietone Newsreels. His picture with the shoe was in the NY Daily News on the front page, ditto the Daily Mirror. I remember how my parents, ardent anti-communists were totally horrified at his behavior and how people commented on it on t.v, in the editorials, and certainly in the Russian emigre community. With regard to RFE/RL, US law prohibits broadcasting US government- created propaganda in the US (to this date, I believe), but RFE/RL archives do exist. George Kalbouss On Wednesday, May 7, 2003, at 02:37 PM, elenka wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > Several people remember seeing Khrushchev and the shoe incident on > American > TV. Dr. Robin says it was in the ads by Radio Free Europe/Radio > Liberty Would > on TV. Is there a way to verify this information? Did RFE/RL have a TV > news > program on American TV? or just advertised their service? Would there > be an > archive of the clips broadcast on TV? > We're dealing with precise memories of cultural myths, not "false > memories" of > history. In the case of K. cultural myths became part of the CW > history. > > Elena Baraban > elenka at uvic.ca > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Wwdslovene at AOL.COM Wed May 7 22:13:36 2003 From: Wwdslovene at AOL.COM (William Derbyshire) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 18:13:36 EDT Subject: verification -- Khrushchev's appearances on TV Message-ID: I second what George Kalbouss wrote. He and I (and many others still alive and kicking) are "of a certain age", and we remember well seeing the images on the t.v. and in newspapers. Further, I have spoken with Russians still living in the USSR at that time who somehow had access to the story and pictures. They too, while not Khrushchev admirers, were also horrified at the sight of their national leader making an ass of himself for the world to see. It's hard to imagine that anyone questions whether this incident took place or can be verified! Gimme a break! Bill Derbyshire ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenka at UVIC.CA Wed May 7 22:53:18 2003 From: elenka at UVIC.CA (elenka) Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 15:53:18 -0700 Subject: verification -- Khrushchev's appearances on TV Message-ID: Response to a message from Bill Derbyshire: You have misunderstood my comment about verification. I did not ask about verification of the incident itself. The discussion of the last few days has brought out many interesting details about what happened and what did not happen on Oct 12, 1960. My last message was about verifying the programs, ads, films, etc. on American TV that reenacted the episode in the United Nations. Since -- as became clear from the preceding discussion -- these TV appearances of Khrushchev were "edited," I suggested we make a distinction between precise memories of these appearances on TV (not quite documentary) and history (whatever happened in the UN Assembly). All I said was that the recollections you and other colleagues have of the 1960s are not "false memories" of history but accurate memories of what was cultural history of the Cold War, history as reflected and expressed on American TV. My comment that made you lose your temper was: "We're dealing with precise memories of cultural myths, not "false memories" of history. In the case of K. [Khrushchev] cultural myths became part of the CW history." Most respectfully, Elena Baraban elenka at uvic.ca >===== Original Message From Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list ===== >I second what George Kalbouss wrote. He and I (and many others still >alive and kicking) are "of a certain age", and we remember well seeing >the images on the t.v. and in newspapers. Further, I have spoken with >Russians still living in the USSR at that time who somehow had access >to the story and pictures. They too, while not Khrushchev admirers, were >also horrified at the sight of their national leader making an ass of himself >for the world to see. >It's hard to imagine that anyone questions whether this incident took place >or can be verified! Gimme a break! > Bill Derbyshire > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Thu May 8 05:53:54 2003 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 06:53:54 +0100 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Alina, > I remember my grandfather telling me that in > one May day speech he said "Esli by idei Marksa da maslom pomazat'..." That > statement also did not make it into print. A wonderful phrase, but can you say a little more about the intended meaning? Was Kh. implying that Marx's ideas are too rigid and need to be treated flexibly? > Some stuff he said caught on. I > remember our grammar teacher quoting Khrushchev "a ja, desushaka, eshche > porot' budu." I don't know 'desushaka' either! Best Wishes, and thanks, Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mdenner at STETSON.EDU Thu May 8 13:17:43 2003 From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU (Michael Denner) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:17:43 -0400 Subject: vacation visas Message-ID: Dear Colleagues! While in Russia this summer, I'd like to go for a few days to Estonia. My visa is a single-entry, but I was told that I could possibly get a "vacation visa" to leave Russia for a few days, depending on whether there were any qualifying holidays during the period I'll be there (roughly mid-June through the first week of August). I looked around the Internet for information on vacation visas, but had no luck. Does anyone know how these visas work? What are the qualifying holidays? What's the Russian term? (I'd assumed отпускная виза, but that didn't get any hits on Rambler.) Thanks in advance! mad <><><><><><><><><><><><> Dr. Michael A. Denner Russian Studies Program Stetson University Campus Box 8361 DeLand, FL 32724 386.822.7381 (department) 386.822.7265 (direct line) 386.822.7380 (fax) http://www.stetson.edu/organizations/russian_club/mypage.htm http://russianpoetry.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Thu May 8 16:46:24 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:46:24 -0700 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> I remember my grandfather telling me that in >> one May day speech he said "Esli by idei Marksa da maslom pomazat'..." That >> statement also did not make it into print. >A wonderful phrase, but can you say a little more about the intended >meaning? Was Kh. implying that Marx's ideas are too rigid and need to be >treated flexibly? I doubt he thought the theory through. I think the idea was that Marxist ideas are good, but they do not feed the country. >> Some stuff he said caught on. I >> remember our grammar teacher quoting Khrushchev "a ja, desushaka, eshche >> porot' budu." Sorry, bad typo: dedushka. A ja dedushka eshche porot' budu. In this case as if he was asking some young kid why he was sewing crooked, and the boy'a answer was that he still intended to undo the seems. That was during one of Khrushchev's campains against shabby workmanship. There were many other less funny campains. _____________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nkm at UNIX.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU Thu May 8 13:59:50 2003 From: nkm at UNIX.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU (Natalie O. Kononenko) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 09:59:50 -0400 Subject: Maslom pomazat' Message-ID: My understanding of Esli by ne X, da maslom pomazat' is that the basic thing (food implied) is good, if only you could get rid of X (here idei Marksa) and put a little butter on it. Natalka K. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Thu May 8 18:02:06 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 11:02:06 -0700 Subject: Maslom pomazat' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >My understanding of Esli by ne X, da maslom pomazat' is that the basic >thing (food implied) is good, if only you could get rid of X (here idei >Marksa) and put a little butter on it. There was no NE. Think of it as of wishful thinking act: esli by vody da pobol'she... Without NE it is not clear what object should be smeered with butter. In Khrushchev's wishful thinking, if only one could spread some butter on the ideas of Masx... _____________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From glebov at RCI.RUTGERS.EDU Thu May 8 15:23:02 2003 From: glebov at RCI.RUTGERS.EDU (Serguei Glebov) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 19:23:02 +0400 Subject: TOC: Ab Imperio 1-2003 Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Editors of Ab Imperio are pleased to announce the release of the first issue of the journal in 2003. Please find the table of contents below. Ab Imperio' thematic program in 2003 is devoted to exploration of varieties of borders, boundaries, and frontiers and their role in constituting political, social, and cultural experience. In the first issue you will find articles that tackle the problem of boundary as an analytical concept in various academic fields and as a human reality. Contributions from linguists, historians, and sociologists further explore how this concept can expand and enrich our understanding of empire and nationbuilding. The journal's continuous project "The State of Art in History Writing on Empire and Nation" features a forum on dilemmas of history writing in Moldova, the development of national history in this borderland region, and present day interconnections between identity politics and historical memory. Ab Imperio is an international quarterly devoted to theory of nationalism and history of empire and nationalities in the post soviet space. It is published in English and Russian in hard and web copy (www.abimperio.net). For submissions or subscription, please, contact the editors at ai at bancorp.ru, hphsem95 at phd.ceu.hu, glebov at rci.rutgers.edu or akapluno at yahoo.de Please note that the language of publication is indicated in brackets. I. METHODOLOGY AND THEORY >From the Editors. Probing the Limits of Historical Metanarratives: Imperial Boundaries (RUS/ENG) Alfred Rieber. Changing Concepts and Constructions of Frontiers: A Comparative Historical Approach (ENG) Andreas Kappeler. The Russian Southern and Eastern Frontiers from the 15th to the 18th Centuries (RUS) David Laitin. What is a Language Community? (RUS) II. HISTORY Claus Scharf. Pugachev as Emperor between Center and Periphery: Defining the Problematic (RUS) Marina Vituhnovskaia. Karelians at the Edges of Competing National Projects: Socioeconomic Differences between Russian and Finnish Karelias as a Nationality Policy Factor (RUS) Pavel Varnavskii. The Boundaries of the Soviet Buryat Nation: “Cultural Nation-Building” in Buryatia in 1926-29 in Blueprints of National Intelligentsia and National-Bolsheviks (RUS) Vladimir Bobrovnikov. Violence and Power in the Historical Memory of a Muslim Borderland (Toward a New Interpretation of the “Hochbar Tale”) (RUS) Ilya Gerasimov. “We Only Kill Each Other”: Mapping the Inter-Ethnic Criminal Violence in Odessa, 1907-1917 (RUS) Darius Staliunas. Borders in a Borderland: The Belarusians and the Ethno-linguistic Policy of the Russian Empire in Western Borderlands (the Era of “Great Reforms”) (RUS) Curt Woolhiser. Constructing National Identities in the Polish- Belarusian Borderlands (ENG) Suzanne Wertheim. Language Ideologies and the “Purification” of Post-Soviet Tatar (ENG) III. ARCHIVE Elena Bezvikonnaia. Geopolitical Space of the Steppe: The Omsk Region and the Problem of Frontier in the Russian Imperial State Building (1820s-1830s) (RUS) Documents from the State Archive of Omsk Region (RUS) IV. SOCIOLOGY, ETHNOLOGY, POLITICAL SCIENCE Tatiana Skrynnikova. Russia in Buryats’ Identity Construction (RUS) Kimitaka Matsuzato. Russian Studies across Borders. Slavic Studies in Japan and Social Sciences in Russia: A Joint Search for Breaking the Isolation (RUS) V. ABC: EMPIRE & NATIONALISM STUDIES >From the Editors Stefan Troebst. “We Are Transnistrians!” Post-Soviet Identity Management in the Dniester Valley (ENG) Sergiu Musteata.“We are Rumanians?” History Teaching in the Republic of Moldova over the Last Decade (RUS) Andrei Cusco, Viktor Taki.“Who Are We?” A Historiographic Choice between the Rumanian Nation and Moldavian Statehood (RUS) VI. NEWEST MYTHOLOGIES Sergei Abashin.The Archeology of Central Asian Nationalisms (RUS) VII. HISTORIOGRAPHY Mark Baker One Man Cannot an “Eastern Europe” Make, but he Can Certainly Try: Charles Frederick Henningsen and the Ideological Construction of Eastern Europe (ENG) VIII. REVIEWS I. Martyniuk on Denis J. B. Shaw, Russia in the Modern World: A New Geography (Oxford: Blackwell Publishers, 1999). 314 p., paperback edition. Ј16.99 Emilian Kavalski on Patrick J. Geary, The Myth of Nations: The Medieval Origins of Europe (Princeton, NJ and Oxford: Princeton University Press, 2002); xii+2000 p. Index. ISBN: 0-691-09054-8 (cloth). Paul du Quenoy on Alexander J. Motyl, Imperial Ends: The Decay, Collapse, and Revival of Empires (New York: Columbia University Press, 2001). 128 p. ISBN: 0-231-12110-5 (cloth). Maya Lavrinovich on Claus Scharf. Katharina II, Deutschland und die Deutschen. Mainz: von Zabern, 1996. 570 S. (Abb.; ohne Abbildungen – Mainz, 1995) Andrei Skorobogatov on Л. М. Гаврилова. Русская историческая мысль и медальерное искусство в эпоху Екатерины II. СПб.: РИЦ СПб. Гос. горного ин-та им. Г. В. Плеханова, 2000. 256 с., илл. Tomasz Kamusella on Koichi Inoue (Ed.), “Dear Father!”: A Collection of B. Pilsudski’s Letters, et alii, Ser.: Pilsudskiana de Sapporo, no. 1 (Sapporo: Slavic Research Center, Hokkaido University, 1999), 155 p., figures, facsimiles. Wim van Meurs on Marjorie Mandelstam Balzer (Ed.), Culture Incarnate. Native Anthropology from Russia (Armonk, NY: M.E. Sharpe, 1995), xii, 270 pp. (Illustr.) Sergei Korshunov on А. Н. Зорин. Города и посады дореволюционного Поволжья. Историко-этнографическое исследование населения и поселенческой структуры городов российской провинции второй половины XVI - начала XX вв. Казань: Изд-во Казанского университета, 2001. 704 с., 376 ил. Alter Litvin and Alla Sal’nikova on Israel Getzler, Nikolai Sukhanov. Chronicler of the Russian Revolution (London: Palgrave. 2002), xix, 226 p. (Illustr.) Olga Velychko and Margarita Orlova on И. С. Яжборовская, А. Ю. Яблоков, В. С. Парсаданова. Катынский синдром в советско-польских и российско-польских отношениях. Москва. РОССПЭН, 2001. 496 с. List of Contributors Ab Imperio – 2002 Miscellaneous Books for Reviews ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Vbelyanin at MTU.RU Thu May 8 16:00:37 2003 From: Vbelyanin at MTU.RU (Valery Belyanin) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:00:37 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers about porot' I heard from my farther (born in Siberia): - Matulja, shto shjosh ne ottula? - A ja matushka esche porot' budu. - Матуля, што шьёшь не оттуля? - А я, матушка, еще пороть буду. - Matulja (a rare girl s name) what are you sewing from the wrong side? - Mother, I shall be unsewing (redoing). meaning that the person is doing something wrong because(?) s/he will redo. about a lazy and non-handy one. My point is that it is rather "matushka" than "dedushka" watches how the daughter sews. Though it may be changed in the context to mention grandpa if needed. Best regards, Valery Belyanin Editor of www.textology.ru Thursday, May 08, 2003, 12:46:24 PM, you wrote: AI> Sorry, bad typo: dedushka. A ja dedushka eshche porot' budu. In this case AI> as if he was asking some young kid why he was sewing crooked, and the boy'a AI> answer was that he still intended to undo the seems. That was during one of AI> Khrushchev's campains against shabby workmanship. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Thu May 8 16:18:59 2003 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:18:59 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <2794110393.20030508120037@mtu.ru> Message-ID: I am sorry but, as I understand, Khrushchev used POROT' in a different meaning; it was the meaning of corporal punishment. Can anyone comment on it? Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Thu, 8 May 2003, Valery Belyanin wrote: > Dear SEELANGers > about porot' > I heard from my farther (born in Siberia): > - Matulja, shto shjosh ne ottula? > - A ja matushka esche porot' budu. > - ������, ��� ����� �� ������? > - � �, �������, ��� ������ ����. > - Matulja (a rare girl s name) what are you sewing from the wrong side? > - Mother, I shall be unsewing (redoing). > meaning that the person is doing something wrong because(?) s/he will > redo. about a lazy and non-handy one. > My point is that it is rather "matushka" than "dedushka" watches how the > daughter sews. Though it may be changed in the context to mention > grandpa if needed. > > Best regards, Valery Belyanin > Editor of www.textology.ru > > Thursday, May 08, 2003, 12:46:24 PM, you wrote: > AI> Sorry, bad typo: dedushka. A ja dedushka eshche porot' budu. In this case > AI> as if he was asking some young kid why he was sewing crooked, and the boy'a > AI> answer was that he still intended to undo the seems. That was during one of > AI> Khrushchev's campains against shabby workmanship. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at IFRANCE.COM Thu May 8 17:14:17 2003 From: gadassov at IFRANCE.COM (gadassov) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 19:14:17 +0200 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: Message-ID: le 8/05/03 18:18, Edward M Dumanis à dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU a écrit : > I am sorry but, as I understand, Khrushchev used POROT' in a different > meaning; it was the meaning of corporal punishment. > Can anyone comment on it? I think so: пороть (porot') = "fesser" in French, that is "to give a spank". Paternalist corporal punishment. (although it may also be "découdre" or "unpick", the context seems to point to the first meaning)) Georges _____________________________________________________________________ Envie de discuter en "live" avec vos amis ? T�l�charger MSN Messenger http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/m la 1�re messagerie instantan�e de France ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From buck at SIMONMBA.ROCHESTER.EDU Thu May 8 19:29:38 2003 From: buck at SIMONMBA.ROCHESTER.EDU (David Green) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 15:29:38 -0400 Subject: Minsk Russian program, thoughts? Message-ID: i recently lived in Minsk for several months and felt completely safe...there are lots of stories that people like to tell about disappearances, but for the most part disappearances seem to occur among the political crowd. i was a student at minks state linguistic univ and had an excellent experience in Minsk. you can study belarussian at MSLU ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From reei at INDIANA.EDU Thu May 8 20:12:47 2003 From: reei at INDIANA.EDU (REEI) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 15:12:47 -0500 Subject: Don't miss this opportunity: summer Macedonian & Georgian Message-ID: The Indiana University Summer Workshop in Slavic, East European and Central Asian Languages (SWSEEL) is pleased to announce that the following two languages will be offered this summer (June 20-August 15) with possible financial assistance: 1. MACEDONIAN (1st year) is an ACLS funded language and is therefore tuition-free to graduate students in an East European field. 2. GEORGIAN (1st and 2nd year): We would especially like to encourage students to apply for 2nd year GEORGIAN, a course which is being offered in the summer intensive format for the first time in the United States. The fellowship deadline for Macedonian and Georgian is extended to May 23, 2003. SWSEEL is still accepting applications for other languages. Although the priority deadline for fellowships for the rest of the languages has passed, FLAS eligible late applicants are always placed on an alternate list in case additional funding becomes available during the summer. 1. RUSSIAN (1st through 6th year) 2. CZECH (1st year)* 3. ROMANIAN (1st year)* 4. BOSNIAN/CROATIAN/SERBIAN (1st year)* 5. POLISH (1st year) 6. HUNGARIAN (1st year) *CZECH, ROMANIAN, and BOSNIAN/CROATIAN/SERBIAN are ACLS funded and are therefore tuition-free to graduate students in an East European field. For more information and to apply online, go to: http://www.indiana.edu/~iuslavic/swseel/index.shtml Email: swseel at indiana.edu Russian & East European Institute Indiana University 1020 East Kirkwood Ave, BH 565 Bloomington, IN 47405 reei at indiana.edu Tel. 812.855.7309 Fax. 812.855.6411 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mojelisty at HOTMAIL.COM Thu May 8 20:09:05 2003 From: mojelisty at HOTMAIL.COM (mario kulka) Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 20:09:05 +0000 Subject: used books Message-ID: Fellow students, I was about to post a question to the list about a good way to exchange used books among us. I was wondering if there was a mailing list for that purpose; in the meantime I found a free, no ads site that you might find useful (bookhookup.com) It has all the CUNY colleges but not that many books listed yet; anyway, does anybody know about simillar sites or a mailing list for that purpose? Thanks, Mateusz _________________________________________________________________ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From olgames at IASTATE.EDU Fri May 9 13:17:34 2003 From: olgames at IASTATE.EDU (Olga Mesropova) Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 08:17:34 -0500 Subject: Call for Papers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear colleagues: I am posting this CFP on behalf of Prof. Brenda Daly, the editor of the NWSA Journal. If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to contact me or Professor Daly off-list. Best regards, Olga Mesropova **************************************************************************** The NWSA Journal, the scholarly publication of the National Women’s Studies Association, is committed to providing a forum in which the research of feminist scholars, established and new, results in critical dialogue. We invite submissions in all areas relating to Women’s Studies. Reports, book reviews, archives, and critical essays that engage in a feminist perspective will also be considered. We seek submissions on topics, such as:  Feminist Pedagogy  Feminist theory and research methodologies: including global feminism  Women and science  Women and religion, including fundamentalism  Women, girls and education  Ecology, ecofeminism, health and the environment  Feminist generations: the future of feminism, young feminists, children  Post-colonial studies  Women and activism  Women and the arts  Women writers: autobiographies and reflexive writings  Race, class, sexualities, and gender intersections  Women and the media  Women and disabilities  Women’s history  Immigration Send three double-spaced copies of your manuscript (20-30 pages), with parenthetical notes and a complete references page formatted according to the Chicago Manual of Style. After May 1, 2003 send to: Brenda Daly, Editor NWSA Journal 253 Ross Hall Iowa State University Ames, IA 50011 bdaly at iastate.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Fri May 9 16:36:03 2003 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Fri, 9 May 2003 12:36:03 EDT Subject: used books Message-ID: In a message dated 5/8/03 3:20:41 PM, mojelisty at HOTMAIL.COM writes: > I was about to post a question to the list about a good way to exchange used > books among us. > Excellent idea. I used to live in Palo Alto, which had not only Szwede's Slavic Books but an unending source of translated (mostly) foreign book material, some of it decomissioned from the Hoover Institute, etc. at Stanford, at Wessex Used Books in Menlo Park (the side of Santa Cruz ave. next to the train commuter parking station, near a big local new-bookstore and several restaurants. It's one of the few things I miss in New Orleans, which has quite a few used-book stores but none with more than a couple, if that, of central or eastern European books at a time. (The other thing--very SOUR sourdough bread.) Leslie ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kjanicka at BRYNMAWR.EDU Sat May 10 06:59:31 2003 From: kjanicka at BRYNMAWR.EDU (Katie Janicka) Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 06:59:31 -0000 Subject: Russian textbook for self-study Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, Could you recommend a beginner's Russian self-study textbook with audio for an adult learner? Thank you in advance, Katie Janicka -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Katie Janicka Russian Department Bryn Mawr College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From annaplis at MAIL.RU Sat May 10 17:39:47 2003 From: annaplis at MAIL.RU (Anna Plisetskaya) Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 21:39:47 +0400 Subject: Query: Rhyderich; Chapel of Fan Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, How should I spell the Welsh name Rhyderch in Russian? Let me also ask one more question: what does the "Chapel of Fan" mean? Thanks in advance, Anna ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From zielinski at ECONOPHONE.CH Sat May 10 17:44:34 2003 From: zielinski at ECONOPHONE.CH (Zielinski) Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 19:44:34 +0200 Subject: Query: Rhyderich; Chapel of Fan Message-ID: > Let me also ask one more question: what does the "Chapel of Fan" mean? You mean the fan vault in the King's College Chapel? Look here: http://www.ariadne.org/studio/michelli/sggotharchpics6.html Jan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From annaplis at MAIL.RU Sat May 10 17:54:23 2003 From: annaplis at MAIL.RU (Anna Plisetskaya) Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 21:54:23 +0400 Subject: Query: Rhyderich; Chapel of Fan Message-ID: Thank you, Jan. Do they actually call the King's College Chapel "Chapel of Fan"? Anna > You mean the fan vault in the King's College Chapel? Look here: > > http://www.ariadne.org/studio/michelli/sggotharchpics6.html > > Jan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From zielinski at ECONOPHONE.CH Sat May 10 18:02:14 2003 From: zielinski at ECONOPHONE.CH (Zielinski) Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 20:02:14 +0200 Subject: Query: Rhyderich; Chapel of Fan Message-ID: > Thank you, Jan. Do they actually call the King's College Chapel "Chapel of > Fan"? > What I do know is that this particular chapel in Cambridge is famous for its fan vault. What's your exact source? Jan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tom.priestly at UALBERTA.CA Sat May 10 19:30:00 2003 From: tom.priestly at UALBERTA.CA (Tom Priestly) Date: Sat, 10 May 2003 13:30:00 -0600 Subject: Query: Rhyderich; Chapel of Fan In-Reply-To: <000801c3171b$30a3c1a0$c165bcd4@computer> Message-ID: "Rh" is the spelling for the aspirated /hr/; "ch" is the spelling for the voiceless velar fricative, IPA /x/. So: Rhyderch, in a Russian transcription close to the original pronunciation, would be "Khriderkh" and this would sound *almost* like Welsh. I can not be definite about "Chapel of Fan", since this is two-thirds in English to start with. The Welsh "fan" can mean 1. place and 2. mountain, and "fân" means 3. small; of the three, "Chapel of the Mountain" is most likely but is still only a guess. "Chapel of Fan" sounds odd because one would expext an article - "Chapel of the Fan" - unless "Fan" is a proper name. It is not however the name of any Welsh town or village in my "Map book of Wales", and is not a well-known Christian name. Pob hwyl! = vsego khoroshego! Tom >Dear SEELANGers, >How should I spell the Welsh name Rhyderch in Russian? > >Let me also ask one more question: what does the "Chapel of Fan" mean? > >Thanks in advance, > >Anna > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ======================= Tom Priestly 9215-69 Street Edmonton AB Canada T6B 1V8 phone 780-469-2920 fax 780-492-9106 e-mail: tom.priestly at ualberta.ca ======================= ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From annaplis at MAIL.RU Sun May 11 10:08:46 2003 From: annaplis at MAIL.RU (Anna Plisetskaya) Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 14:08:46 +0400 Subject: Query: Rhyderich; Chapel of Fan Message-ID: Thank you ever so much, Tom and Jan! Actually, my student is translating a folk tale, so he asked me these questions. I haven't read the tale, but I can ask him about the broader context. Best< Anna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Priestly" To: Sent: Saturday, May 10, 2003 11:30 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Query: Rhyderich; Chapel of Fan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brifkin at WISC.EDU Sun May 11 14:38:32 2003 From: brifkin at WISC.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 09:38:32 -0500 Subject: Russian textbook for self-study In-Reply-To: <200305100702.h4A72cSc002175@ada.brynmawr.edu> Message-ID: You can see a lot of options catalogued at: http://slavica.com/teaching/rifkin.html With best wishes, BR >Dear SEELANGers, > >Could you recommend a beginner's Russian self-study textbook with audio for >an adult learner? > >Thank you in advance, >Katie Janicka > >-- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >Katie Janicka >Russian Department >Bryn Mawr College > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- ================= Benjamin Rifkin Professor of Slavic Languages, Slavic Dept., UW-Madison 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Dr. Madison, WI 53706 USA voice: 608/262-1623; fax: 608/265-2814 http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/slavic/rifkin/ Director of the Russian School Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 voice: 802/443-5533; fax: 802/443-5394 http://www.middlebury.edu/~ls/russian/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kjanicka at BRYNMAWR.EDU Sun May 11 15:32:39 2003 From: kjanicka at BRYNMAWR.EDU (Katie Janicka) Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 15:32:39 -0000 Subject: used books In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Mateusz and fellow SEELANGers, I found a website that compares prices of new and used books available on the internet for you: www.fetchbook.info Best wishes, Katie Janicka -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Katie Janicka Russian Department Bryn Mawr College mario kulka said: > Fellow students, > > I was about to post a question to the list about a good way to exchange used > books among us. I was wondering if there was a mailing list for that > purpose; in the meantime I found a free, no ads site that you might find > useful (bookhookup.com) It has all the CUNY colleges but not that many books > listed yet; anyway, does anybody know about simillar sites or a mailing list > for that purpose? > > Thanks, > Mateusz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Sun May 11 12:45:58 2003 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 12:45:58 +0000 Subject: query re: V. Grossman Message-ID: Dear Seelangers: An English professor would like to know the source of a quote in Grossman's "Zhizn' i sud'ba," Part I, p. 161 in the Russian edition, which reads: "...kak vino, pechal' minuvshikh dnej/ V moej dushe, chem stare, tem silnej." A footnote in the English edition says it's from Pushkin. The English professor finds the book very powerful and wonders why he doesn't hear anything about it or the author, as opposed to, say, Babel, Mandel'shtam or Brodsky. I supposed that Grossman's realistic style wasn't fashionable, or the author hadn't had a spectacular fate (i.e. exile). Any ideas out there? Perhaps someone knows John Garrard's address and the professor can write to him. Thanks all, Emily Tall (enjoying retirement!) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cmills at KNOX.EDU Sun May 11 18:23:03 2003 From: cmills at KNOX.EDU (Charles Mills) Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 13:23:03 -0500 Subject: Khrushchev on TV Message-ID: Those of a younger generation were repeatedly treated to a snippet of Khrushchev pounding his shoe on the podium (and Neil Armstrong bouncing on the moon) on MTV. William Derbyshire wrote: > I second what George Kalbouss wrote. He and I (and many others still > alive and kicking) are "of a certain age", and we remember well seeing > the images on TV --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM Sun May 11 23:07:00 2003 From: tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM (Timothy D. Sergay) Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 19:07:00 -0400 Subject: query re: V. Grossman Message-ID: Dear Emily Tall and Seelangers: > An English professor would like to know the source of a quote in > Grossman's "Zhizn' i sud'ba," Part I, p. 161 in the Russian edition, > which reads: "...kak vino, pechal' minuvshikh dnej/ V moej dushe, chem > stare, tem silnej." A footnote in the English edition says it's from > Pushkin. It's Pushkin's "Elegiia," 1830, 1st line: "Bezumnykh let ugasshee vesel'e..." > The English professor finds the book very powerful and wonders why > he doesn't hear anything about it or the author. Try Radio Liberty's Russian-language service website, svoboda.org, where you can search "grossman." It seems I've heard features about him in recent months. Perhaps in conjunction with the war prose of Viktor Nekrasov. Tim Sergay ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sher07 at MINDSPRING.COM Mon May 12 01:24:57 2003 From: sher07 at MINDSPRING.COM (Benjamin Sher) Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 20:24:57 -0500 Subject: Sher's Russian Index temporarily offline Message-ID: Dear friends: Just a brief note to the effect that my Sher's Russian Index may be offline for the next week or two while I change web hosts. Thank you for your patience. Benjamin Sher's Russian Web http://www.websher.net Benjamin and Anna Sher sher07 at mindspring.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Wwdslovene at AOL.COM Mon May 12 01:32:46 2003 From: Wwdslovene at AOL.COM (William Derbyshire) Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 21:32:46 EDT Subject: verification -- Khrushchev's appearances on TV Message-ID: In a message dated 05/07/2003 3:57:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, elenka at UVIC.CA writes: > Response to a message from Bill Derbyshire: > You have misunderstood my comment about verification. > No, I misunderstood nothing. What I find most amusing is the fact that you think that I was reacting to your letter. In fact, I never even read your posting! I jumped into this otherwise silly debate only when I noticed that there was a response from my old friend Prof. Kalbouss. > My comment that made you lose you temper was....... My goodness! I was not aware that "I had lost my temper"!! The phrase "gimme a break" does not constitute a loss of temper. What does bother me is your suggestion that this famous incident was "edited". Well, duh! Of course. Are not most TV and those old news film clips of the past edited? Books are edited, articles are edited, and so are any news broadcasts on the radio and on the TV. Perhaps you meant to say that the incident as shown was altered in some way through trick photography. Well, if that is so, then I can only suggest that you make an effort to track down some of that footage, or ideally find a witness who was actually present when the shoe banging took place, since you seem to think that people like Prof. Kalbouss and I are the victims of memories on whom propaganda played some kind a trick. My major concern here is that people not engage in historical revisionism of facts for whatever purpose. Why would anyone want to defend Khrushchev's boorish behavior in any case? And let us keep in mind that there are people out there who also deny the holocaust or the severity of the holocaust. This kind of debate, admittedly on a very minor scale, is a painful reminder of just that. Wm. Derbyshire ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From elenka at UVIC.CA Mon May 12 02:10:58 2003 From: elenka at UVIC.CA (elenka) Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 19:10:58 -0700 Subject: verification -- Khrushchev's appearances on TV Message-ID: Dear Mr. Derbyshire: I have never suggested anyone who watched TV in the 1960s was "a victim" of propaganda etc. (see your text below). And, of course, there hasn't been a single message in this debate that intended to "defend K's boorish behavior" as you write. The whole discussion hasn't been about "defending" or criticizing anyone's behavior, don't you think? Pozhaluista, ne peredergivaite. - íå ïåðåäåðãèâàéòå, ïîæàëóéñòà. I very much appreciate the contributions of all our colleagues who participated in the discussion. I personally do not think it has been a "silly debate" as you write and I hope other colleagues did not think it was "silly". Let me please once again express my gratitude to you and everyone else who wrote on the subject. I mean it. Yours, Elena >===== Original Message From Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list ===== >In a message dated 05/07/2003 3:57:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >elenka at UVIC.CA writes: > >> Response to a message from Bill Derbyshire: >> You have misunderstood my comment about verification. >> > No, I misunderstood nothing. What I find most amusing is the fact >that you think that I was reacting to your letter. In fact, I never even read >your posting! I jumped into this otherwise silly debate only when I noticed >that there was a response from my old friend Prof. Kalbouss. > >> My comment that made you lose you temper was....... > My goodness! I was not aware that "I had lost my temper"!! The >phrase "gimme a break" does not constitute a loss of temper. > > What does bother me is your suggestion that this famous incident >was "edited". Well, duh! Of course. Are not most TV and those old news >film clips of the past edited? Books are edited, articles are edited, and so >are any news broadcasts on the radio and on the TV. Perhaps you meant >to say that the incident as shown was altered in some way through trick >photography. Well, if that is so, then I can only suggest that you make >an effort to track down some of that footage, or ideally find a witness who >was actually present when the shoe banging took place, since you seem >to think that people like Prof. Kalbouss and I are the victims of memories >on whom propaganda played some kind a trick. > My major concern here is that people not engage in historical >revisionism >of facts for whatever purpose. Why would anyone want to defend Khrushchev's >boorish behavior in any case? And let us keep in mind that there are people >out >there who also deny the holocaust or the severity of the holocaust. This kind >of >debate, admittedly on a very minor scale, is a painful reminder of just that. > Wm. Derbyshire > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon May 12 02:51:32 2003 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 22:51:32 -0400 Subject: Term "akademicheskaya zadolzhennost" Message-ID: On a grade transcript (Справка об итогах сдачи экзаменов и зачетов) from Ukraine, written entirely in Russian, for the academic years 1989/90 through 1991/92, we see the usual columns: course title, grade, number of hours, etc. However, I also have what is for me an unusual column that reads Срок ликвидации академической задолженности, если она имеется Could someone explain to me what is meant here? Are we talking about a financial debt, or is it rather some kind of lag by the student in passing courses on schedule that must be made up? And ideally, how do you say this in English? On a related note, I am always interested in the academics' view of the contrast between экзамен and зачет. The former is usually graded on the 5-point scale, whereas the latter is usually pass/fail, with "pass" called -- you guessed it -- "зачет." :-) Any recommendations? TIA -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Mon May 12 06:12:30 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Sun, 11 May 2003 23:12:30 -0700 Subject: Term "akademicheskaya zadolzhennost" In-Reply-To: <3EBF0C34.9CABD674@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: >However, I also have what is for me an unusual column that reads > > Срок ликвидации > академической задолженности, > если она имеется Deadline for eliminating incompletes (if there are any). _____________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Mon May 12 04:16:17 2003 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward Dumanis) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 00:16:17 -0400 Subject: Term "akademicheskaya zadolzhennost"-A survey of Russian Grading System Message-ID: яшятущыНуЦшяА ЙятъэФуччъЦДХ is Incomplete. It is not correct that ЛшЙящуч is usually graded on the 5-point scale. This normally takes place in elementary and secondary education only. In higher education, the scale is 4-point which is always expressed in words: "ЪДэыНчъ/Excellent," "ЬъБъКъ/Good," "╬тъГэуДГъБыДуэХчъ/Satisfactory," and "ЧуЕтъГэуДГъБыДуэХчъ/Unsatisfactory." They are often abbreviated as "ЪДэ," "ЬъБ," "╬т," and the last one is abbreviated and nicknamed as " ЧуЕт." These grades correspond to A, B, C and F. As you can see "D" is missing. In the Russian academic tradition of higher education, there are two types of courses: lectures only and lectures accompanied by regular practice sessions called "seminars" which are very similar to recitations. (The difference is that the homework is not given on lecturers but by the faculty that teach practice sessions,and a course is actually taught as 2 parallel courses: on thery, and on practice skills.) In the latter type of courses the exam is split into two parts: ЙяН│Д/test (test of skills learned during practice sessions) and ЛшЙящуч/exam (test of the material taught on lectures, i.e, the theory of the subject). °яН│Д/test is usually graded on Pass/Fail scale, and it is mandatory to pass it before being admitted to take ЛшЙящуч/exam. However, sometimes some courses (in which, usually, the theory and the skills are closely intertwined) have so called "тыжжуБучсыБъГяччИз ЙяН│Д/differential test" which means that they they test both skills and theory at the same time, and the grade is given using the aforementioned 4-point scale. In elementary and secondary education, the grade scale is FORMALLY 5-point. However, normally only 5, 4, 3, 2 are used where 2 is always "failed." So, they would correspond to A, B, C and F, similarly to the 4-point scale for higher education with the difference nevertheless in interpretation. 1 is used exclusively for expression of an outrage towards the dismal results. (A kind of punishment). 5 correspond to A. 4 correspond to B. However, 3 does not actually mean C. It is C- because C would correspond to the average level grade while 3 in Russia means passing grade, i.e. only minimal required knowledge/skill is present. Thus, C is rather 3+ something between 3+ and 4-, and D is 3-. However, it makes it very difficult to translate the documents if we try to be very pedantic, and taking into account that grading has some built-in tollerance, the normal practice is to keep 4-point scale similar to the higher education scale, i.e., translating 5, 4, 3 as A, B, C. Since the absence of 2's is a regular condition in Russia of getting any formal education document, one would never have a chance to convert 2 into our scale, even it is very easy to do. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis "Paul B. Gallagher" wrote: > On a grade transcript (┐ЮБяГшя ър ыДъвяь ЦтяНы ЛшЙящучъГ ы ЙяНуДъГ) from > Ukraine, written entirely in Russian, for the academic years 1989/90 > through 1991/92, we see the usual columns: course title, grade, number > of hours, etc. > > However, I also have what is for me an unusual column that reads > > ┐Бъш эышГытясыы > яшятущыНуЦшъз ЙятъэФуччъЦДы, > уЦэы ъчя ыщууДЦА > > Could someone explain to me what is meant here? Are we talking about a > financial debt, or is it rather some kind of lag by the student in > passing courses on schedule that must be made up? And ideally, how do > you say this in English? > > On a related note, I am always interested in the academics' view of the > contrast between ЛшЙящуч and ЙяНуД. The former is usually graded on the > 5-point scale, whereas the latter is usually pass/fail, with "pass" > called -- you guessed it -- "ЙяНуД." :-) Any recommendations? > > TIA > > -- > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. > -- > Paul B. Gallagher > pbg translations, inc. > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" > http://pbg-translations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon May 12 04:49:28 2003 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 00:49:28 -0400 Subject: Term "akademicheskaya zadolzhennost"-A survey of Russian Grading System Message-ID: Edward Dumanis wrote: > Академическая задолженность is Incomplete. Thanks, that was as I suspected. > It is not correct that экзамен is usually graded on the 5-point scale. > This normally takes place in elementary and secondary education only. > In higher education, the scale is 4-point which is always expressed > in words: "Отлично/Excellent," "Хорошо/Good," "Удовлетворительно/ > Satisfactory," and "Неудовлетворительно/Unsatisfactory." They are > often abbreviated as "Отл," "Хор," "Уд," and the last one is > abbreviated and nicknamed as "Неуд." These grades correspond to A, > B, C and F. As you can see "D" is missing. Your detailed explanation of the grading system was fascinating but unnecessary. However, it did draw my attention to the failure of my elliptical note to convey my understanding of this aspect of the system. I have seen enough high school and college transcripts containing notations such as "5 (отл.)," "4 (хор.)," and "3 (удовл.)" that neither system (numerical or descriptive) fazes me. Whether the "2" and "1" exist or not is of no special concern because we do not evaluate the transcripts. As you advise (and as admissions offices have requested of us), we do not convert the grades from the Russian system to the American one, we just report them and let the academics take over from there. > In the Russian academic tradition of higher education, there are two > types of courses: > lectures only and lectures accompanied by regular practice sessions > called "seminars" which are very similar to recitations. (The > difference is that the homework is not given on lecturers Hunh? Do you mean "на лекциях"? > but by the faculty that teach practice sessions, and a course is > actually taught as 2 parallel courses: on theory, and on practice > skills.) In the latter type of courses the exam is split into two > parts: зачёт/test (test of skills learned during practice sessions) > and экзамен/exam (test of the material taught on lectures, i.e., > the theory of the subject). Зачёт/test is usually graded on Pass/Fail > scale, and it is mandatory to pass it before being admitted to take > экзамен/exam. However, sometimes some courses (in which, usually, the > theory and the skills are closely intertwined) have so called > "дифференцированный зачёт/differential test" which means that they > test both skills and theory at the same time, and the grade is given > using the aforementioned 4-point scale. OK, this makes good sense, but I struggle to accept the contrast "exam/test" = "экзамен/зачет" because the English pair does not convey the contrast you outline here. It seems clear from your description that the зачет is given at the conclusion of the course and covers practical skills, whereas the English "test" suggests to me one of several (or even many) hurdles the student must pass *during* the course; moreover, there is no theoretical/practical contrast in the English "exam/test." A test can cover theory, and an exam can cover practice; the contrast for me is mainly one of greater/lesser drama or importance. At least that was my experience in 10 years of higher education. This is why I have tended to favor "theoretical/practical exams" in my translation practice. How does this strike you? -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon May 12 04:50:45 2003 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 00:50:45 -0400 Subject: Term "akademicheskaya zadolzhennost" Message-ID: Alina Israeli wrote: > >However, I also have what is for me an unusual column that reads > > > > Срок ликвидации > > академической задолженности, > > если она имеется > > Deadline for eliminating incompletes (if there are any). Thanks. I'll go with "deadline for eliminating incompletes (if any)." -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jpeschio at UMICH.EDU Mon May 12 06:55:31 2003 From: jpeschio at UMICH.EDU (Joe Peschio) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 10:55:31 +0400 Subject: akademicheskaia zadolzhennost' Message-ID: For Paul Gallagher: Unfortunately, I can't read your cyrillic, but I gather you're asking about "akademicheskaia zadolzhennost'". This is the official term for what students call "khvosty" - exams not passed/not taken OR "zachety, kotorye ne postavili" (which could be either a (oral OR written) test/quiz not passed, or a paper not submitted/not accepted by an official or negotiated deadline). For example: Students are commonly abroad in June and don't take any exams during the spring "sessiia" - they carry an outstanding "akademicheskaia zadolzhennost'" until they pass all exams and do all the "zachety", which has to be done by a certain date in fall under threat of expulsion. Even more commonly, students don't pass exams or "zachety" the first time around in spring and carry the "khvosty" over into fall, which gives them a chance to read the books they were supposed to. This is a natural result of 1. the fact that Russian students often have to pass up to 20 subjects in one semester, frequently without ever having attended class for some of the subjects, 2. most Russian professors allow up to 3 re-takes, and 3. exam season is consequently still pretty chaotic in most Russian institutions. "Khvosty" from the winter "sessiia" are comparatively rare. In English, I would suggest "incomplete". The plural form is also used in American universities (e.g., in April: "Papers, what papers? I'm taking four incompletes, man."). The verb "pogasit'" is used to denote "clearing an incomplete". It's possible that the transcript you're looking at doesn't indicate whether they did that or not. I should qualify by saying that I know this is how the jargon works in contemporary Russian academic-ese in the humanities and at law schools. It might have meant something different in 1989 at a different kind of institution. I also gather (again, I can't be certain) that you're asking about the difference between "zachety" and "ekzameny". The difference is that the former have a deadline during the semester, whereas the deadlines for the latter (and "kursovye") are during the "sessiia" after classes end. "Zachet" refers to *any* evaluation instrument - book reports, quizzes, "beseda na temu", design projects, etc. etc. Cheers, Joe Peschio ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From peitlova at TISCALINET.IT Mon May 12 09:27:12 2003 From: peitlova at TISCALINET.IT (Edil Legno) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 11:27:12 +0200 Subject: Zachet- ekzamen Message-ID: Сдавать ли экзамен или зачет - это предвидится по учебной программе. Как экзамен так и зачет сдаются в конце сессии (зимней или летней);можно сказать,что единственная существенная разница состоит в том,что зачет ставят без оценки ,а экзамен можно сдать на отлично или хорошо,в крайнем случае на удовлетворительно.Никто не ставит в зачетную книжку оценку неудовлетворительно,просто учитель объявит вслух плохую оценку ,а у студента есть возможность - в зависимости от того как договорится со своим учителем - вернуться и повторить экзамен.Допустим,что это произошло в течение зимней сессии,летняя сессия начинаестя со второй половины февраля - значит студент может вернуться до начала летней сессии и сдать экзамен.В этом случае у него в зачетной книжке ставили как раз срок ликвидации академической задолженности. Пример: в течение учебы на ист-филфаке мы проходили также научный коммунизм,технические средства обучения ,возрастная физиология и школьная гигиена ,специальный семинар по русскому языку ,стилистика русского языка,но в конце курса лекций мы сдавали не экзамен ,а зачет. На итальянский язык переводчик перевел зачет как :registrato Katarìna Peitlovà,Ph.Dr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon May 12 10:05:55 2003 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 06:05:55 -0400 Subject: akademicheskaia zadolzhennost' Message-ID: Joe Peschio wrote: > For Paul Gallagher: > > Unfortunately, I can't read your cyrillic, Yes, a fatal flaw that makes Eudora unusable for me, working with Cyrillic on a daily basis as I do. YMMV. > but I gather you're asking about "akademicheskaia zadolzhennost'". Yes. This should be obvious from the subject line, which you have kindly retyped in your own transliteration system. :-) > This is the official term for what students call "khvosty" - exams not > passed/not taken OR "zachety, kotorye ne postavili" (which could be > either a (oral OR written) test/quiz not passed, or a paper not > submitted/not accepted by an official or negotiated deadline). For > example: Students are commonly abroad in June and don't take any exams > during the spring "sessiia" - they carry an outstanding > "akademicheskaia zadolzhennost'" until they pass all exams and do all > the "zachety", which has to be done by a certain date in fall under > threat of expulsion. Even more commonly, students don't pass exams or > "zachety" the first time around in spring and carry the "khvosty" over > into fall, which gives them a chance to read the books they were > supposed to. This is a natural result of 1. the fact that Russian > students often have to pass up to 20 subjects in one semester, > frequently without ever having attended class for some of the > subjects, 2. most Russian professors allow up to 3 re-takes, and 3. > exam season is consequently still pretty chaotic in most Russian > institutions. "Khvosty" from the winter "sessiia" are comparatively > rare. > > In English, I would suggest "incomplete". The plural form is also > used in American universities (e.g., in April: "Papers, what papers? > I'm taking four incompletes, man."). The verb "pogasit'" is used to > denote "clearing an incomplete". It's possible that the transcript > you're looking at doesn't indicate whether they did that or not. Thank you for your explanation and suggestion. The consensus seems to be "incomplete," and "deadline for removal of incompletes (if any)" for the entire phrase. Actually, of the 51 courses taken over six semesters, none of them lists anything under the questioned term, "Srok likvidatsii akademicheskoy zadolzhennosti (yesli ona imeyetsya)." > I should qualify by saying that I know this is how the jargon works in > contemporary Russian academic-ese in the humanities and at law schools. > It might have meant something different in 1989 at a different kind of > institution. A med school, as it happens. > I also gather (again, I can't be certain) that you're asking about the > difference between "zachety" and "ekzameny". Yes. This should be clear from the other responses to my query, some of which are in transliteration. > The difference is that the former have a deadline during the semester, > whereas the deadlines for the latter (and "kursovye") are during the > "sessiia" after classes end. "Zachet" refers to *any* evaluation > instrument - book reports, quizzes, "beseda na temu", design projects, > etc. etc. That seems broader than would suit my purpose. For each course, the transcript has a column for ekzamen and a column for zachet, and all the zachety are completed (with "zachet," of course), whereas some (20/51) of the ekzameny are completed ("otl./khor./ud.") and most (31/51) are left blank. So it seems that as used here, the "zachet" column does not refer to any and all evaluation instruments (there would have to be multiple entries for many courses). -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From P.Barta at SURREY.AC.UK Mon May 12 12:47:54 2003 From: P.Barta at SURREY.AC.UK (Peter I. Barta) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 13:47:54 +0100 Subject: British-French Association for the Study of Russian Culture Message-ID: > CALL FOR PAPERS > > Dear Colleague, > > The Autumn meeting of the British-French Association for the Study of Russian Culture will take place on Saturday, 18 October 2003, in Bath. > > Trains from London> '> s Paddington station go to Bath frequently. Journey time is a little over an hour. For those arriving into London> '> s Heathrow airport, there is an express train which gets passengers to Paddington within 15 minutes. There are also flights to Bristol airport which is very near Bath. > > Bath is one of the most beautiful towns in England, surrounded by very scenic countryside. Stonehenge, Wells, Glastonbury and Bristol are all nearby > > We hope that you will participate. May we request that you let us know by 15 July 2003 whether you will be attending. We hope that many of you will be offering presentations. Brief abstracts (75-100 words) for 20-minute papers are invited by 15 July 2003. it would be desirable for papers to be comparative and address aspects of French-Russian or British-Russian cultural ties. Please address correspondence to > > Hélène Mélat ( in France) > 23ter bd Berthier > 75017 Paris > h.melat at free.fr > > > > Peter I. Barta (in the UK) > 37 Durham Rd. > London SW20 0QL > pib1958 at yahoo.com > > > Professor Peter I. Barta > Head of Department > Department of Linguistic, Cultural and International Studies > University of Surrey > Guildford GU2 5XH > England > http://www.surrey.ac.uk/LIS/personal/PB.htm > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Mon May 12 16:34:38 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:34:38 -0700 Subject: exzamen/zachet In-Reply-To: <3EBF27D8.101546EB@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: >OK, this makes good sense, but I struggle to accept the contrast >"exam/test" = "экзамен/зачет" because the English pair does not convey >the contrast you outline here. As a rule, зачет - zachet precedes the exam, and pertains to the practical side of the course. Whithout passing the "zachet" one will not be admitted to the oral exam. So if the zachet part is "akademichaskaja zadolzhennost'" (incomplete) or in student's parlance "xvost", the whole course is an incomplete. The other difference is that exams are always for a grade, while all zachety correspond to the American pass/fail system - zachet vs. nezachet. There are accasionally "less important" course for which there would not be an exam, only zachet, so it less demanding as far as evaluation, maybe no oral examination, or maybe there would be one, but it would be called "zachet". In this case it corresponds exactly to the pass/fail system. _____________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sccampbe at UCHICAGO.EDU Mon May 12 14:56:55 2003 From: sccampbe at UCHICAGO.EDU (Sharon Knox) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:56:55 -0500 Subject: verification -- Khrushchev's appearances on TV In-Reply-To: <146.111fdc5e.2bf053be@aol.com> Message-ID: I think the posting which (rightly!) provoked Prof. Kalbouss's and Derbyshire's eye-rolling was this one: >I wouldn't be surprised if our (US) organs of disinformation fabricated >that footage that we all remember seeing. You know, exactly the same way >they've fabricated the "weapons of mass destruction" that Saddam is >supposed to have. [...] This comment is the academic equivalent of a bumper sticker -- provocative but vapid -- and it's too bad it turned this delightful discussion sour. Thanks to Professors Kalbouss and Derbyshire for the reality check. Quoting William Derbyshire : > In a message dated 05/07/2003 3:57:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > elenka at UVIC.CA writes: > > > Response to a message from Bill Derbyshire: > > You have misunderstood my comment about verification. > > > No, I misunderstood nothing. What I find most amusing is the fact > that you think that I was reacting to your letter. In fact, I never even > read > your posting! I jumped into this otherwise silly debate only when I noticed > that there was a response from my old friend Prof. Kalbouss. > > > My comment that made you lose you temper was....... > My goodness! I was not aware that "I had lost my temper"!! The > phrase "gimme a break" does not constitute a loss of temper. > > What does bother me is your suggestion that this famous incident > was "edited". Well, duh! Of course. Are not most TV and those old news > film clips of the past edited? Books are edited, articles are edited, and > so > are any news broadcasts on the radio and on the TV. Perhaps you meant > to say that the incident as shown was altered in some way through trick > photography. Well, if that is so, then I can only suggest that you make > an effort to track down some of that footage, or ideally find a witness > who > was actually present when the shoe banging took place, since you seem > to think that people like Prof. Kalbouss and I are the victims of memories > on whom propaganda played some kind a trick. > My major concern here is that people not engage in historical > revisionism > of facts for whatever purpose. Why would anyone want to defend Khrushchev's > boorish behavior in any case? And let us keep in mind that there are people > out > there who also deny the holocaust or the severity of the holocaust. This > kind > of > debate, admittedly on a very minor scale, is a painful reminder of just > that. > Wm. Derbyshire > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vtsurikov at HTS.EDU Mon May 12 18:55:13 2003 From: vtsurikov at HTS.EDU (Vladimir Tsurikov) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 14:55:13 -0400 Subject: Colloquium on Aleksei Khomiakov In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Holy Trinity Seminary is pleased to announce a colloquium to be held at the Seminary in October 2003 on Aleksei Khomiakov. For details, please visit: http://hts.edu/pages/colloquim2003.html -- Dcn. Vladimir Tsurikov Assistant Dean Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary PO Box 36 Jordanville, NY 13361 voice/fax: (315) 858-0945 www.hts.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eboudovs at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Mon May 12 16:03:47 2003 From: eboudovs at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Elena Boudovskaia) Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 09:03:47 -0700 Subject: encoding Message-ID: To those who can read e-mail in Russian: what do you need to install to read all the encodings? I have Outlook Express with the encodings Cyrillic Windows, Cyrillic ISO, Cyrillic KOI8-R and Cyrillic KOI8-U, and I can read most of the mail. Sometimes, however, an incoming e-mail consists of series of question marks, and then I cannot read it in any of the encodings. Some of my students complain that my Russian e-mails look like question marks too. What could the matter be, and how can I fix it? Elena ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Tue May 13 16:05:54 2003 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:05:54 -0400 Subject: encoding Message-ID: Elena Boudovskaia wrote: > To those who can read e-mail in Russian: what do you need to install > to read all the encodings? I have Outlook Express with the encodings > Cyrillic Windows, Cyrillic ISO, Cyrillic KOI8-R and Cyrillic KOI8-U, > and I can read most of the mail. Sometimes, however, an incoming > e-mail consists of series of question marks, and then I cannot read > it in any of the encodings. Some of my students complain that my > Russian e-mails look like question marks too. What could the matter > be, and how can I fix it? If the Cyrillic has all turned to question marks, the problem is not at your end and you can't do a thing to fix it. The sender has chosen a seven-bit encoding and will have to resend with an eight-bit encoding. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWU.EDU Tue May 13 16:14:00 2003 From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 12:14:00 -0400 Subject: encoding Message-ID: Outlook Express reads all encodings. How to set things up properly depends on whether you are using Windows98 / ME on the one hand, or Windows 2000 / XP on the other. However, question marks are almost always a sign of stuff that originated in Unicode and somehow went through a server or mailer that couldn't handle it. For example, let's say I send "Nina" a Russian e-mail. I forget to tell Outlook Express to use koi8. OE defaults to Unicode if it detects foreign non-European characters. If Nina is using an e-mail program that is Unicode incapable (like certain versions of Eudora, or Wisemail), all the Russian will turn into ???. Then when Nina forwards this e-mail, the Russian will be irretrievably lost. Another scenario is that a forwarded e-mail in, say koi8, is accidentally converted to Unicode (easy to do in OE) and then sent on to someone whose e-mail cleient can't handle unicode. Keep in mind that older e-mail clients, especially on the Mac running older operating systems, are Unicode un-friendly. Unfortunately, question marks are like Humpty Dumpty. Once you see questions marks, you can't put the Cyrillic back together again. It has already been trashed. -Rich _________________________________ Richard Robin, Associate Professor, Chair German and Slavic Dept. The George Washington University Washington, DC 20008 rrobin at gwu.edu http://home.gwu.edu/~rrobin Читаю по-русски во всех кодировках. Chitayu po-russki vo vsex kodirovkax. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elena Boudovskaia" To: Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 12:03 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] encoding > To those who can read e-mail in Russian: what do you need to install to read > all the encodings? I have Outlook Express with the encodings Cyrillic > Windows, Cyrillic ISO, Cyrillic KOI8-R and Cyrillic KOI8-U, and I can read > most of the mail. Sometimes, however, an incoming e-mail consists of series > of question marks, and then I cannot read it in any of the encodings. Some > of my students complain that my Russian e-mails look like question marks > too. What could the matter be, and how can I fix it? > > Elena > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ilon at UT.EE Tue May 13 18:40:00 2003 From: ilon at UT.EE (I.F.) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 21:40:00 +0300 Subject: ruthenia news Message-ID: NOVOSTI SAJTA "RUTHENIA" JUbilej I. A. Avramec http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526673.html Novye tartuskie izdanija http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526577.html Blokovskij sbornik XVI http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526575.html Ot redkollegi http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526574.html Oglavlenie http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526573.html Konferencija "CHelovek v prostranstve jazyka" (Kaunas, 8-9 maja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526534.html Konferencija "Pushkinskie chtenija-2003: Peterburg v kul'ture, literature, iskusstve" (SPb, 6 ijunja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526535.html Konferencija "Sovremennye puti izuchenija hudozhestvennogo proizvedenija i istorii literatury" (Smolensk, 9-11 ijunja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526536.html Konferencija "Racional'noe i jemocional'noe v literature i v fol'klore" (Volgograd, 21-24 oktjabrja 2003 goda) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526497.html Informacionnoe pis'mo http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526496.html Buninskaja konferencija (Elec, 22-23 oktjabrja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526499.html Informacionnoe pis'mo http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526498.html IV Filologicheskie chtenija (Novosibirsk, 23-24 oktjabrja 2003) http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526494.html Informacionnoe pis'mo http://www.ruthenia.ru/document/526493.html V ramkah proekta "Pushkiniana Tartuensia" republikovany stat'i M. Gasparova, JU. Lotmana, N. Marchenko, V. Pugacheva iz sbornika "Pushkinskie chtenija" (Tallin, 1990) i stat'i V. Baevskogo, A. Dolinina, G. Levintona, L. Sidjakova, JU. Civ'jana i A. CHudakova iz sbornika statej 70-letiju prof. JU. M. Lotmana (Tartu, 1992) http://www.ruthenia.ru/tartu.html ----------------------------- Ilon Fraiman staff at ruthenia.ru http://www.ruthenia.ru/ ----------------------------- Adres dlja podpiski na rassylku novostej sajta "Ruthenia" http://www.ruthenia.ru/subscribe.html CHtoby otkazat'sja ot rassylki, zajdite, pozhalujsta, na stranicu http://www.ruthenia.ru/subscribe.html ili napishite pis'mo po adresu staff at ruthenia.ru ----------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Tue May 13 20:36:32 2003 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:36:32 -0400 Subject: akademicheskaia zadolzhennost' Message-ID: Thanks to Edward Dumanis, Alina Israeli, Joe Peschio, Katarina Peitlova, and John Dunn for all your helpful, insightful comments and explanations. My apologies for my apparent silence yesterday in response to several helpful posts. I forgot and ran up against that *&^%*%^ three-message limit. No rudeness intended. Responses to messages to which I have not yet responded, consolidated in order to stay within the limit (this is my third and last message today): John Dunn wrote (privately): > I take your point about the lack of equivalence between exam/test > and ekzamen/zachet, but that terminological distinction does seem > to have become established. I have literally just finished reading > an application for post-graduate study in which the translator of > the diploma has adopted those versions, and I have come across it > on many other occasions. It is not necessarily unreasonable: the > usage of the Russian terms is not totally dissimilar to the way > in which the terms 'exam' and 'class test' are used, at least in > this University. Perhaps that explains why it has come to be used this way -- that the British usage of "test" varies from the American, and many Russians have learned the British form of the language. On the other hand, as I am translating for an American readership unfamiliar with this usage, I think it would fail as a translation. > That raises another problem, the lack of standardisation in English > of academic terminology, especially in the U.K. Before the start > of this correspondence I had never heard the term 'incomplete' used > in this sense. This is probably irrelevant to you, but a > translation into British English of the zadolzhennosti phrase would > have to be something like: 'date by which all reassessments must be > completed'. Here, too, the British and American terminologies are so different and unfamiliar to one another as to be incomprehensible. I would be completely baffled by "reassessments" and have to consult a Brit before I had the slightest idea what you were talking about. FWIW, the American usage comes from an underlying understanding that in order to earn a grade for a course, a student must complete a specified set of requirements (e.g., write two term papers, take a midterm and final exam, etc.). If some of those requirements are not met (completed) for good cause, the student may obtain the instructor's permission to complete them at a later date. In such cases, a temporary grade of "incomplete" is listed pending the student's completion of the requirements. Alina Israeli wrote: [quoting me:] > >OK, this makes good sense, but I struggle to accept the contrast > >"exam/test" = "экзамен/зачет" because the English pair does not > >convey the contrast you outline here. > > As a rule, зачет - zachet precedes the exam, and pertains to the > practical side of the course. Without passing the "zachet" one will > not be admitted to the oral exam. So if the zachet part is > "akademichaskaja zadolzhennost'" (incomplete) or in student's > parlance "xvost", the whole course is an incomplete. For my purpose in translating the column headings, the scheduling and dependencies are not very important. I wish to capture the essential difference between "экзамен," a test covering the student's theoretical knowledge, and "зачет," a test covering the student's practical skills. And for me as an American, "exam/test" does not capture that essential difference, because an American student or academic will not immediately (or perhaps ever) differentiate those terms as theoretical vs. practical. He is much more likely to contrast them as major vs. minor. > The other difference is that exams are always for a grade, while all > zachety correspond to the American pass/fail system - zachet vs. > nezachet. > > There are accasionally "less important" course for which there would > not be an exam, only zachet, so it less demanding as far as > evaluation, maybe no oral examination, or maybe there would be one, > but it would be called "zachet". In this case it corresponds exactly > to the pass/fail system. Yes and no. I had experiences with VERY important courses such as 12 hours of independent study for the purpose of writing a thesis, and those courses were graded pass/fail. Then again, there are also situations where a course may be effectively pass/fail but on paper it appears to be ABCDF: if you pass, you get an A, and if you fail, you get maybe a C and are washed out of the program. Or you may get an "incomplete" if your advisor is kind and wants to give you another shot to fix it. Edward Dumanis concurred with Alina Israeli's last two paragraphs, and added (privately): > So, "зачет" sometimes has nothing to do with practical exams. OK, so how would you say, "сдал зачёт с отметкой ╚зачёт╩"? (Or is that too redundant even for Russian bureaucratese?) "Passed the test with a grade of 'pass' "? -- sounds awful in English... How about "сдал экзамен с отметкой ╚отлично╩"? "Passed the exam with a grade of 'excellent' "? -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kel1 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue May 13 20:43:25 2003 From: kel1 at COLUMBIA.EDU (kevin eric laney) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:43:25 -0400 Subject: Summer Russian Courses Offered at Columbia University Message-ID: The Russian Practicum combines courses in Russian language with courses in Russian literature and specially designed research courses on “Business In Russia and NIS” and “Research and the Internet.” Language and content courses can be taken in combination or individually. Extracurricular activities include a Russian film series, museum visits and other cultural events. The Practicum consists of two four-week sessions, running from June 9-July 5 and July 8-August 2. Literature and research courses are targeted at upper-level undergraduate and graduate students. Language courses accommodate both undergraduate and graduate students with a variety of backgrounds and reasons for studying Russian. The practicum is co-sponsored by the Harriman Institute and the Department of Slavic Languages at Columbia University. Language Courses First-Year Russian, I and II, S1101h-1102r Staff 4 points, M-F, 9am-1pm, June 9-July 3; July 7-August 1 Grammar, reading, composition and conversation. If both semesters are taken, equivalent to full-year elementary course. Second-Year Russian, I and II, S1201h-1201r, Staff 4 points, M-F, 9am-1pm June 9-July 3; July 7-August 1 Prerequisite: RUSS V1101x-1102y or equivalent. Builds upon skills acquired at elementary level. Emphasis on reading, composition, grammar review. Equivalent to full-year intermediate course if both semesters completed. Advanced Russian, S3331h-3332r Staff 4 points, M-F. 9am-12pm June 9-July 3; July 7-August 1 Curriculum evolves according to needs and interests of students. Emphasis on conversation and composition. Reading and discussion of selected texts and videotapes. Oral reports required. Conducted entirely in Russian. Prerequisite: Two years of college-level Russian. Literature and Research Courses The Poet and the Revolution (in Russian) Greta Slobin 3 points, T Th 1:00- 4:10 pm, June 9-July 3 The course will explore a range of responses to the fall of the Russian Empire and the October Revolution and its aftermath in the poetry and prose of the great poets of the time. The reading will focus on the work of Akhmatova, Mandelstam, and Mayakovsky in the USSR, and of their counterparts, Tsvetaeva and Khodasevich, in the Russian diaspora. We will consider how their writing contributes to current theoretical debates on the relationship of modernism and modernity, of artistic creativity and social engagement, and on the role of exile in the national tradition. Business In Russia and NIS Anna Tavis 2 points, M W 2:10-4 pm, June 9-July 3 This course is a practical case-study-based interactive examination of current Russian geo-economic space that will deliver as close as possible to hands-on simulation of “doing business in Russia”. In the course of the program, we will examine all areas of business: energy sector, financial services, retail, manufacturing, healthcare and others. We will hear live reports from the practitioners, analysts and journalists, and will connect virtually with specialists on the ground in Moscow and other regions. Final evaluation is based on preparation of a case study of a business in Russia (could be a Western or Russian business), and a business plan for running a business in Russia or a consulting proposal for a Russian business client. Research and the Internet Marta Deyrup 2 points, M W 2:10-4 pm, June 9-July 3 How to use Russian Internet resources. Nuts and bolts of configuring a computer and browser to handle Cyrillic character sets, advanced Web search strategies, doing subject-specific research (online government resources, statistical materials, news sources, humanities materials, etc.), and the mining of proprietary (fee-based) and open-access information. Geared to the needs and interest of the class. Opportunity to create a Web site of online resources. Short Prose Fiction of the Silver Age (in Russian) Henryk Baran 3 points, T Th 1:00- 4:10 pm, July 7-August 1 An overview of short prose, a major area of experimentation for Silver Age authors. They transformed the Russian realist canon, turning to a wide range of sources, from 18th century prose, myth and folklore, philosophical discourse, poetry to the visual arts, as well as the mass circulation daily newspaper. In a close reading of texts by Briusov, Sologub, Gippius, Rozanov, Remizov, Kuzmin, Sadovskoi, Khlebnikov, Guro, Mandel’stam, and Pasternak we will explore the modernist genres of stylization, the literary fairy tale, the fragment, and the prose poem. Literature and Research Courses continued.... Working in the Russian Archives Henryk Baran 2 points, MW 2:10-4 pm, July 7-August 1 This course offers an overview of major Russian literary and social science archives and helps students develop basic skills needed to successfully locate, retrieve and work with archival materials. Topics covered include: the organization of Russian archives, archival “Rossica” in the West, printed and on-line finding aids, archival terminology, scholarly do’s and don’ts in Russian and Western repositories. Special attention on learning to read different types of manuscripts, to transcribe them and prepare them for scholarly publication. Lectures, discussions, practical exercises. For More Information, Please Contact: Greta Slobin, Ph.D., Director, Russian Practicum at 212-854-4623 or email: gs2125 at columbia.edu For more information on admissions and fees: See the website for Columbia University's Summer Session: http://www.ce.columbia.edu/summer -- Kevin Eric Laney The Harriman Institute at Columbia University 420 West 118th Street 12th Floor, Room 1212 MC 3345 New York, NY 10027 Tel. 212.854.5139 Fax 212.666.3481 email: kel1 at columbia.edu http://www.harriman.columbia.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aatseel at EARTHLINK.NET Tue May 13 21:15:25 2003 From: aatseel at EARTHLINK.NET (Kathleen Dillon) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:15:25 -0400 Subject: AATSEEL Election Results Message-ID: AATSEEL announces the winners of the 2003 elections. Professor Steve Franks, Indiana University and Professor Mary Nicholas, Lehigh University have been elected to the office of Vice-President. They will serve from 2004-2006. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aatseel at EARTHLINK.NET Tue May 13 21:17:22 2003 From: aatseel at EARTHLINK.NET (Kathleen Dillon) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:17:22 -0400 Subject: AATSEEL Membership Message-ID: If you would like to have your information included in the 2003 Membership Directory, you must pay dues by May 31. You may now do so online through a secure server. Go to www.aatseel.org and click on "Membership." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aatseel at EARTHLINK.NET Tue May 13 21:30:42 2003 From: aatseel at EARTHLINK.NET (Kathleen Dillon) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:30:42 -0400 Subject: AATSEEL searching for missing members Message-ID: I am trying to locate two individuals who published articles on Fonvizin in SEEJ. If either Nancy Cooper or Vladimir E. Alexandrov reads this notice, please contact AATSEEL at aatseel at earthlink.net. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Wed May 14 00:41:36 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 17:41:36 -0700 Subject: akademicheskaia zadolzhennost' In-Reply-To: <3EC15750.2ED40290@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: >OK, so how would you say, "сдал зачёт с отметкой ћзачётЋ"? > (Or is that too redundant even for Russian bureaucratese?) >"Passed the test with a grade of 'pass' "? -- sounds awful in English... > >How about "сдал экзамен с отметкой ћотличноЋ"? >"Passed the exam with a grade of 'excellent' "? That might be the case when there is a lab to precede the oral exam, or say a written test in phonetics which takes place before the "sessija" - the exam period begins, when phonetics will be part of the Russian language course oral exam. For the most part the grade for "zachet" doesn't matter in the long run, but there is one. So if you took the written test in phonetics and got an A for it, that's exactly the case you just described. Most likely that grade will remeain between the student and the teacher (just like the individual grades for exams that I give my students in the US). Occasionally, it may make it into "zachetnaja knizhka", usually if there is just a written test at the end of the semester and there is no oral exam during the "sessija". _____________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Wwdslovene at AOL.COM Wed May 14 16:12:22 2003 From: Wwdslovene at AOL.COM (William Derbyshire) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 12:12:22 EDT Subject: Khrushchev on TV Message-ID: In a message dated 05/11/2003 11:23:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, cmills at KNOX.EDU writes: > Those of a younger generation were repeatedly treated to a snippet of > Khrushchev > pounding his shoe on the podium (and Neil Armstrong bouncing on the moon) on > MTV. Hi Charlie! Thanks for jumping into this debate. And, by the way, it has now become popular among certain people (mainly religious fanatics) to deny that Armstrong ever walked on the moon. Best wishes. I trust all is well. Bill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dc247 at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed May 14 15:27:32 2003 From: dc247 at COLUMBIA.EDU (David L. Cooper) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 11:27:32 -0400 Subject: AATSEEL Membership Message-ID: Dear Ms. Dillon: I just renewed my membership online. My membership is a joint membership with my wife. The online renewal had no provision for supplying the member information for the joint member. But she should be included in the Directory as well. If you do not have her information on file, she is Valeria Sobol, please let me know and I will provide it. Thank you. David Cooper Kathleen Dillon wrote: > > If you would like to have your information included in the 2003 > Membership Directory, you must pay dues by May 31. You may now > do so online through a secure server. Go to www.aatseel.org and > click on "Membership." > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From thobe at LAFN.ORG Wed May 14 17:39:35 2003 From: thobe at LAFN.ORG (Glenn Thobe) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 10:39:35 -0700 Subject: encoding In-Reply-To: <000701c3196a$aa30f9b0$12f2a480@germslavrobin> Message-ID: On Tue, May 13, 2003 at 12:14:00PM -0400, Richard Robin wrote: > ... > However, question marks are almost always a sign of stuff that originated in > Unicode and somehow went through a server or mailer that couldn't handle it. > ... > Unfortunately, question marks are like Humpty Dumpty. Once you see questions > marks, you can't put the Cyrillic back together again. It has already been > trashed. > > -Rich > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Elena Boudovskaia" > To: > Sent: Monday, May 12, 2003 12:03 PM > Subject: [SEELANGS] encoding > > > > To those who can read e-mail in Russian: what do you need to install to > read > > all the encodings? I have Outlook Express with the encodings Cyrillic > > Windows, Cyrillic ISO, Cyrillic KOI8-R and Cyrillic KOI8-U, and I can read > > most of the mail. Sometimes, however, an incoming e-mail consists of > series > > of question marks, and then I cannot read it in any of the encodings. Some > > of my students complain that my Russian e-mails look like question marks > > too. What could the matter be, and how can I fix it? > > > > Elena I can't answer the question of how to configure your OS and mailer (MUA) to properly compose and send e-mail containing cyrillic text, but I will say that whatever encoding you use, there is a Content-Type line in your mail header that tells the reader's mailer what encoding to expect. Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=koi8-r Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" When I see gibberish or question marks where I expect to see cyrillic, there is invariably a conflict between the character set declared and the one actually used. Sometimes I can recover the text by editing the charset attribute on the receiving end. I hope this helps. -Glenn Thobe ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Wed May 14 20:46:55 2003 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 16:46:55 -0400 Subject: akademicheskaia zadolzhennost' In-Reply-To: <3EC15750.2ED40290@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 May 2003, Paul B. Gallagher wrote: ----------------------------------- Snip ----------------------------------- > Yes and no. I had experiences with VERY important courses such as 12 > hours of independent study for the purpose of writing a thesis, and > those courses were graded pass/fail. Then again, there are also > situations where a course may be effectively pass/fail but on paper it > appears to be ABCDF: if you pass, you get an A, and if you fail, you get > maybe a C and are washed out of the program. I am not aware of such cases, and have no idea how they can exist. The grade system for each course is officially preapproved, and written down in the so-called academic plan. Professors do not have any flexibility in choosing to grade it or not. The only "kindness" that they can demonstrate is to offer not to count the appearance. If ZACHJOT is graded then it is so to be according to the academic plan. > > Edward Dumanis concurred with Alina Israeli's last two paragraphs, and > added (privately): > > > So, "�����" sometimes has nothing to do with practical exams. > > OK, so how would you say, "���� ��ޣ� � �������� ���ޣԻ"? > (Or is that too redundant even for Russian bureaucratese?) > "Passed the test with a grade of 'pass' "? -- sounds awful in English... It is awful in Russian too. How about "The test was successfully passed"? > > How about "���� ������� � �������� �������ϻ"? > "Passed the exam with a grade of 'excellent' "? This sounds okay. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Wed May 14 21:06:36 2003 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 17:06:36 -0400 Subject: akademicheskaia zadolzhennost' In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Tue, 13 May 2003, Alina Israeli wrote: ........... /Snip/ ........... > That might be the case when there is a lab to precede the oral exam, or say > a written test in phonetics which takes place before the "sessija" - the > exam period begins, when phonetics will be part of the Russian language > course oral exam. For the most part the grade for "zachet" doesn't matter > in the long run, but there is one. So if you took the written test in > phonetics and got an A for it, that's exactly the case you just described. > Most likely that grade will remeain between the student and the teacher > (just like the individual grades for exams that I give my students in the > US). Occasionally, it may make it into "zachetnaja knizhka", usually if > there is just a written test at the end of the semester and there is no > oral exam during the "sessija". > I would somewhat dissent here. The Final Test might be graded, but its grade should not be confused with the grade "ZACHJOT" ("Pass") given as the point of admission to the following exam, or as a Pass-grade for the course in the Pass/Fail grading system. If the grade for ZACHJOT (where "ZACHJOT" is used not in the meaning of a grade but in the meaning of a test) is given, then this test is a so-called DIFFERENTSIROVANNYJ ZACHJOT, and its grade is entered, as a grade for an exam would be, into "zachjotnaja knizhka." It is not occasionally but in those rare cases when DIFFERENTSIROVANNYJ ZACHJOT is in the academic plan. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From PAChew at LINGUIST.FREESERVE.CO.UK Thu May 15 04:27:07 2003 From: PAChew at LINGUIST.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Peter Chew) Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 22:27:07 -0600 Subject: A Computational Phonology of Russian - new book Message-ID: ***NOW AVAILABLE*** Chew, Peter A.: "A Computational Phonology of Russian". Parkland, FL: Dissertation.com. ISBN 1-58112-178-4. 424pp. US$ 29.95 (paperback), PDF download US$ 9.00. For more detail or to order, visit www.dissertation.com/library/1121784a.htm. This book critiques existing theories of Russian phonology and proposes a new theory which is implemented in the Prolog programming language; the programming code which implements the theory is included in the book. The theory covers well-known aspects of Russian phonetics, phonology and morphology. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From irina.klyagin1 at JSC.NASA.GOV Thu May 15 14:03:48 2003 From: irina.klyagin1 at JSC.NASA.GOV (Irina Klyagin) Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:03:48 -0400 Subject: encoding Message-ID: There is ciryllic decoder page on the web, it sometimes helps. Try it. http://www.artlebedev.ru/tools/decoder/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Thu May 15 14:16:43 2003 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 10:16:43 -0400 Subject: encoding In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Unfortunately, my experience with this site is not always successful. Any better ideas? Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Thu, 15 May 2003, Irina Klyagin wrote: > There is ciryllic decoder page on the web, it sometimes helps. Try it. > http://www.artlebedev.ru/tools/decoder/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jknox at BOWDOIN.EDU Thu May 15 17:24:40 2003 From: jknox at BOWDOIN.EDU (Jane Knox-Voina) Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 13:24:40 -0400 Subject: opening in Soviet/Russian/East European Politics Message-ID: COMPARATIVE POLITICS BOWDOIN COLLEGE The Department of Government and Legal Studies invites applications for a one-year, non-tenure track position at the Assistant Professor or Instructor level in Comparative Politics, with an emphasis on European politics for the 2003-2004 academic year. Evidence of teaching excellence or promise, and scholarly engagement is expected; Ph.D. in hand by date of appointment is preferred, though ABDs will be considered. Teaching load is two courses each semester. Consideration of applications will begin immediately. Please send a letter of application in which you discuss your teaching experience and scholarly research, a c.v., and three letters of recommendation to Chair, Department of Government and Legal Studies, Bowdoin College, 9800 College Station, Brunswick, ME 04011-8498. Bowdoin is a highly selective, liberal arts college of 1,550 students located two hours north of Boston. For more information, visit our website at www.bowdoin.edu. Bowdoin College is committed to equal opportunity through affirmative action. Women and members of minority groups are encouraged to apply. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU Thu May 15 20:46:42 2003 From: pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (pjs) Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 16:46:42 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev fabrication In-Reply-To: <6A683C506D71A4478D4EE9B0EC2281500379BFBF@exmailml07> Message-ID: If there were actual film of Khrushchev pounding his shoe at the United Nations, don't you think Bill Taubman would have mentioned it? As his book makes clear, the shoe pounding story is just one possible version of the truth of what happened that day in the General Assembly. Do we even know if there was a movie camera there that was been trained on Khrushchev at just the right moment? My point is not that Khrushchev did or didn't pound his shoe, but where the image that we all "remember" of Khrushchev pounding his shoe came from. I believe that it was nothing more than some footage of Khrushchev delivering a vigourous speech and that we all just assumed that this was film the shoe pounding incident. The whole commercial (PSA) was concocted of imagery and sounds meant to arouse emotion rather than provoke thought. Now this whole thing should be fairly easy to resolve. If someone can produce footage of Khrushchev pounding his shoe at the UN, I'll go away. But if not, it should give us cause to consider the ways in which all of us, on both sides of the iron curtain, were manipulated by cold-war propaganda. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Fri May 16 02:37:52 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 18:37:52 -0800 Subject: Khrushchev fabrication In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >My point is not that Khrushchev did or didn't pound his shoe, but where >the image that we all "remember" of Khrushchev pounding his shoe came >from. I believe that it was nothing more than some footage of Khrushchev >delivering a vigourous speech and that we all just assumed that this was >film the shoe pounding incident. > >Now this whole thing should be fairly easy to resolve. If someone can >produce footage of Khrushchev pounding his shoe at the UN, I'll go away. There are many things so outrageous that unless they happen no one could have invented them. That is why some people deny they ever happened or existed, be it in their own lives or in world history. There is a movement called by their opponents "Holocaust denial", "denial" is also a term used in (popular) psychology. Please note, they deny the bad events they cannot face up, never the good ones. Ask yourself: Do we have any other "outrageous fabrications" about leaders of other countires? Is there a precedent? If it were a fabrication, whom would it serve? The shoe story pales compared to some outrageous behavior described by Khrushchev himself. And those outrageous things were not done in the privacy of his dacha but at foreign residences of his hosts. If those stories became public they would have been much more damaging (and probably no one would have believed them anyway, but we have his own word). True, there are some non-dying myths, but they are usually on the positive side, like the one about the King of Denmark who wore the yellow star under the occupation. (Boris Xazanov wrote a very touching "povest'" on the subject.) Those are born out of human desire to believe in humanity, to find something positive. "Holocaust denials" are actually their brothers, they don't want to believe in bad things even when you do show them the footage. If I told you something unbelievably good about Khrushchev, would you believe me or ask for a footage or hand-written testimony? I tend to think that you would have believed me. And why would that be? Isn't there a positive-color filter (inside the pupil of your eye) that filters out the bad stuff and keeps the good? What's good for your friends is not necessarily good for history. -- __________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brifkin at WISC.EDU Fri May 16 00:28:08 2003 From: brifkin at WISC.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 19:28:08 -0500 Subject: program needs your support Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers: I have just learned that the University of Memphis administration has decided to eliminate the concentration (major and minor) in Russian and dismiss Dr. Elizabeth Blake, tenure track assistant professor of Russian. Elizabeth asks SEELANGers to write the University of Memphis administration in support of the Russian program at Memphis. (Of course, I will be writing in my capacity as President of AATSEEL.) Sadly, Ben University of Memphis Administration Dr. Shirley Raines sraines at memphis.edu Office of the President 341 Administration Bldg. The University of Memphis Memphis, TN 38152 Dr. Ralph Faudree rfaudree at memphis.edu Office of the Provost 360 Administration Bldg. The University of Memphis Memphis, TN 38152 Dr. Henry Kurtz hkurtz at memphis.edu Dean, College of Arts and Sciences 217 Mitchell Hall The University of Memphis Memphis, TN 38152. -- ================= Benjamin Rifkin Professor of Slavic Languages, Slavic Dept., UW-Madison 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Dr. Madison, WI 53706 USA voice: 608/262-1623; fax: 608/265-2814 http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/slavic/rifkin/ Director of the Russian School Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 voice: 802/443-5533; fax: 802/443-5394 http://www.middlebury.edu/~ls/russian/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWU.EDU Fri May 16 10:39:23 2003 From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 06:39:23 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev fabrication Message-ID: This discussion is taking on religious tones. I agree with Peter Scotto. The issue here is not whether Khrushchev pounded his shoe. The overwhelming eyewitness evidence suggests that he did. But many have written that they remember *video clips* of the shoe-pounding. I myself used to think that I *saw* NK pounding his shoe. But at some point in the 1980s, I realized that I had never seen the footage repeated on the many TV documentaries about the cold war. Think of all the famous historical moments we have etched in our memories because we have seen them not once but many times: the Zapruder film, Armstrong on the moon, Kennedy's "Ask not" inaugural, Yuri Gagarin smiling... I have seen lots of NK footage - almost always at the podium in a Kremlin address. So where's the shoe pounding? It's missing -- not because it didn't happen, but maybe because no one filmed it. So I second Peter's motion: if the clip exists, where can it be found? -Rich Robin Richard Robin, Associate Professor German and Slavic Dept. The George Washington University Washington, DC 20008 rrobin at gwu.edu http://home.gwu.edu/~rrobin Читаю по-русски во всех кодировках. Chitayu po-russki vo vsex kodirovkax. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alina Israeli" To: Sent: Thursday, May 15, 2003 10:37 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Khrushchev fabrication > >My point is not that Khrushchev did or didn't pound his shoe, but where > >the image that we all "remember" of Khrushchev pounding his shoe came > >from. I believe that it was nothing more than some footage of Khrushchev > >delivering a vigourous speech and that we all just assumed that this was > >film the shoe pounding incident. > > > >Now this whole thing should be fairly easy to resolve. If someone can > >produce footage of Khrushchev pounding his shoe at the UN, I'll go away. > > > > There are many things so outrageous that unless they happen no one > could have invented them. That is why some people deny they ever > happened or existed, be it in their own lives or in world history. > There is a movement called by their opponents "Holocaust denial", > "denial" is also a term used in (popular) psychology. Please note, > they deny the bad events they cannot face up, never the good ones. > > Ask yourself: Do we have any other "outrageous fabrications" about > leaders of other countires? Is there a precedent? If it were a > fabrication, whom would it serve? The shoe story pales compared to > some outrageous behavior described by Khrushchev himself. And those > outrageous things were not done in the privacy of his dacha but at > foreign residences of his hosts. If those stories became public they > would have been much more damaging (and probably no one would have > believed them anyway, but we have his own word). > > True, there are some non-dying myths, but they are usually on the > positive side, like the one about the King of Denmark who wore the > yellow star under the occupation. (Boris Xazanov wrote a very > touching "povest'" on the subject.) Those are born out of human > desire to believe in humanity, to find something positive. "Holocaust > denials" are actually their brothers, they don't want to believe in > bad things even when you do show them the footage. > > If I told you something unbelievably good about Khrushchev, would you > believe me or ask for a footage or hand-written testimony? I tend to > think that you would have believed me. And why would that be? Isn't > there a positive-color filter (inside the pupil of your eye) that > filters out the bad stuff and keeps the good? > > What's good for your friends is not necessarily good for history. > -- > __________ > Alina Israeli > LFS, American University > 4400 Mass. Ave., NW > Washington, DC 20016 > > phone: (202) 885-2387 > fax: (202) 885-1076 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Fri May 16 15:11:58 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 08:11:58 -0700 Subject: Khrushchev fabrication In-Reply-To: <000d01c31b97$6a7107f0$0201a8c0@vaio> Message-ID: It's missing -- not because it didn't happen, but maybe because no >one filmed it. So I second Peter's motion: if the clip exists, where can it >be found? > >-Rich Robin Peter Scotto: >> >My point is not that Khrushchev did or didn't pound his shoe, but where >> >the image that we all "remember" of Khrushchev pounding his shoe came >> >from. I believe that it was nothing more than some footage of Khrushchev >> >delivering a vigourous speech and that we all just assumed that this was >> >film the shoe pounding incident. >> > >> >Now this whole thing should be fairly easy to resolve. If someone can >> >produce footage of Khrushchev pounding his shoe at the UN, I'll go away. There is a difference between what Rich Robin is saying: It happened but there is no film clip, and what Peter Scotto is saying: Maybe it did happen or maybe it didn't, but until there is a film clip it's nothing but propaganda. _____________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eblake1 at MEMPHIS.EDU Fri May 16 19:53:58 2003 From: eblake1 at MEMPHIS.EDU (Elizabeth Blake) Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 15:53:58 -0400 Subject: Loss of Russian Position at The U of Memphis Message-ID: Dear Slavists, As Ben Rifkin wrote previously, I am asking for your support in a letter-writing campaign to save the Russian program at The University of Memphis. This program, as an integral part of the liberal arts mission of the College of Arts and Sciences, provides support to the College's programs in International Studies (which has a Russian and East European concentration) and History (which has a Russian field). The following is a brief history of the process of the elimination of the tenure-track position as well as an outline of the efforts I have undertaken to increase enrollments over the past nine months. Let me just add that I would appreciate any support that Slavists can offer as we try to maintain the Russian program at The University of Memphis. I think that it best that we act immediately, since the University seems to still be in negotiations over these cuts. Please let me know if I can provide you with any additional information. Thanking you in advance... Elizabeth Blake Head, Russian Section Department of Foreign Languages and Literatures The University of Memphis eblake1 at memphis.edu (901) 678-3164 HISTORY I was hired in a tenure-track position starting August 2002 in a position that had been vacant for two years. In February 2003 the faculty was informed that the elimination of some part-time instructor positions would be necessary to meet the budget cutbacks proposed by the Tennessee governor. Subsequently, the part-time instruction in the Russian section was scaled back. On May 1st (the day following the last day of classes at the University) I picked up a letter at the post office informing me that my tenure-track position would not be extended beyond the 2002- 2003 academic year. No reason was given in the letter, but in a phone conversation with my department chair I was told that the provost made the decision based on enrollment figures (he was not specific about which figures) over the objections of the department chair who preferred to eliminate an instructor position in another language rather than a tenure-track position in Russian. The provost decided instead to eliminate the Russian concentration (minor and major). The department faculty was informed of the decision on May 6th and have already written a letter of protest to the provost, because they were not involved in the decision-making process. On May 14th, the university community was notified of the cuts, and on May 15th the news appeared in the local newspaper together in an article about the loss of the Russian position. Other faculty members are looking to bring the matter before the faculty senate that meets at the beginning of June. As far as the letters are concerned, the Dean of the College of Arts and Sciences – Henry Kurtz, the President of the University – Shirley Raines, and the Provost of the University – Ralph Faudree are the administrators most directly involved with the decision. Their contact information is as follows: Shirley Raines sraines at memphis.edu Office of the President 341 Administration Bldg. The University of Memphis Memphis, TN 38152 Ralph Faudree rfaudree at memphis.edu Office of the Provost 360 Administration Bldg. The University of Memphis Memphis, TN 38152 Henry Kurtz hkurtz at memphis.edu Dean, College of Arts and Sciences 217 Mitchell Hall The University of Memphis Memphis, TN 38152. Here is an evaluation of the program that I wrote for my first-year review: 2002-3 EVALUATION OF RUSSIAN PROGRAM The University of Memphis Dr. Elizabeth Blake Fall 2002 Enrollment Statistics The number of students in the first-year courses has increased to twenty over thirteen last fall, but the number of students in the second-year course fell to four from last fall's eight. Whereas there were no students in last fall's third-year course, there was one student in this course in fall 2002. The enrollment in the literature in translation course increased from one to two students this fall. Addition of Majors/Minors Two students expressed interest in declaring a Russian concentration as part of their foreign language major while one student continued to work on his minor in Russian. Also a student with a concentration in international studies worked on his Russian in an independent study with me. Recruitment Efforts To encourage student interest in Russian, I organized a trip to the Czar's Exhibit, sponsored Russian film viewings, and provided a traditional Russian meal at an end-of-the-semester gathering. Although sparsely attended (with no more than three students showing up at any given time), I hope that such occasions will promote peer-mentoring so that beginning students will be encouraged to develop further their interest in Russian. Spring 2003 Enrollment Statistics The enrollment of students in the first-year course decreased by approximately one- half from the fall's numbers. The second-year course still has an enrollment of four students while the enrollment in the literature in translation course increased to five. Five students enrolled in a new special topics course in Russian/Soviet cinema. Addition of Majors/Minors Two students became Russian minors this semester. Interest expressed by two students (one of whom is in a course in translation) suggests that more students may declare Russian minors next year. Recruitment Efforts I have put Russian fonts on the computers in the language lab and encouraged students to use web resources in Russian. This semester I have organized monthly conversation hours and two celebratory gatherings to cultivate student interest in Russian. The conversation hours appeal more to those students at the advanced language level while the gatherings are designed to attract students interested in Russian language or in Russian area studies. We had as many as ten students at these gatherings. Proposed Plans for 2003-4 The Russian section continues its efforts to appeal to majors in related disciplines by offering a course in translation on Russian women's literature for the first time in fall 2003. Advertising efforts are already under way to ensure adequate enrollment in the course. In the spring of 2004, the course on twentieth-century Russian literature in translation will be scheduled. I am working on revising the third-year Russian language courses so that they are organized according to topics, e.g., grammar, conversation, and composition. This will enable the section both to support the third-year language courses when warranted by sufficient student interest and to maintain a logical sequence to the offering of these advanced language courses. Furthermore, in an effort to boost enrollments in the courses in translation, I will try to make the courses on Russian/ Soviet Cinema and Twentieth-Century Russian Women's Literature a permanent part of the course offerings of the Russian Section ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aatseel at EARTHLINK.NET Fri May 16 21:03:36 2003 From: aatseel at EARTHLINK.NET (Kathleen Dillon) Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:03:36 -0400 Subject: AATSEEL Awards- Call for Nominations Message-ID: AATSEEL seeks nominations for 2003 awards in the following categories: Secondary Teaching Postsecondary Teaching Service to AATSEEL Contribution to the Profession Contribution to Scholarship If you would like to nominate someone for one of these awards (self-nominations are also permitted), please send an email message to Sarah Pratt, Past-President of AATSEEL, at pratt at usc.edu. Please provide the name, institution, and a brief description of the person's qualifications for the award. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kalbj at GWM.SC.EDU Fri May 16 23:17:57 2003 From: kalbj at GWM.SC.EDU (Judith E Kalb) Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 19:17:57 -0400 Subject: Trojan gold whereabouts? Message-ID: Dear colleagues (particularly in Moscow), Might any of you know whether the exhibit (opened at the Pushkin Museum in 1996) of the "Trojan gold" (Sokrovishcha Troi) is on display, and if so, where? (still at the Pushkin Museum? or gone elsewhere?) Please reply to me off-list at kalbj at gwm.sc.edu--thanks much! Judith Dr. Judith E. Kalb Assistant Professor of Russian and Comparative Literature Director of the Russian Program Languages, Literatures, and Cultures University of South Carolina Columbia, SC 29208 phone: (803) 777-9615 e-mail: jkalb at sc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jack.kollmann at STANFORD.EDU Sat May 17 00:29:13 2003 From: jack.kollmann at STANFORD.EDU (Jack Kollmann) Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 17:29:13 -0700 Subject: Trojan gold whereabouts? In-Reply-To: <3.0.5.32.20030516191757.00cae008@mailbox.gwm.sc.edu> Message-ID: As of summer 2002 the Trojan Gold collection was still on exhibit at the Pushkin Museum of Fine Arts. I've searched news articles and find no mention of its closing. The exhibit began as a temporary one in 1996, announced as lasting for about one year, but it has never closed. Meanwhile, it has been a football in the game of who will or will not return whose treasures seized during WWII, not to mention, in the case of Schliemann's collection, the complicated question of "return to whom?" JK ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From peitlova at TISCALINET.IT Sat May 17 09:25:24 2003 From: peitlova at TISCALINET.IT (Edil Legno) Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 11:25:24 +0200 Subject: Dat' tigalja Message-ID: Reading a Zoshchenko's novel "Kakie u menja byli professiji" I've found a fraseologizm - the meaning of it is clear - from the context,but if someone could explain this world - tigalja? Ты,говорит,что,из наших рабочих? Нет,я особенно не смутился.Думаю - успею дать тигаля.Тем более - кругом народу нету и забор близко. It's evident from the context that he means - ubezhat',but I would like to know something more.I've found only - dat' tjagu - pospeshno ubezhat',but I can't find nothing about - tigalja. Thanks. Katarìna Peitlovà,Ph.Dr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mitsu at SYMPHONY.PLALA.OR.JP Sat May 17 17:53:38 2003 From: mitsu at SYMPHONY.PLALA.OR.JP (Mitsu Numano) Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 13:53:38 -0400 Subject: Who said "Vse my vyshli iz Shineli Gogolya"? Message-ID: Dear SEELANGERs, Could anybody tell me whether it is really Dostoevsky who said "we have all emerged from Gogol's Overcoat (Vse my vyshli iz "Shineli" Gogolya). As Dostoevsly specialists affirm, this famous saying does not occur in any piece of Dostoevsky's oeuvre (including his letters) or in recollections about him. Dmitri Chizhevskii suggests that it could be the French diplomat Melchior de Vogue who attibuted it to Dostoevsky. If Chizhevsky is right, does anybody know where Vogue said or wrote something like that and how it spread not only in the West, but also in Russia? Mitsuyoshi Numano Dept. of Slavic Languages and Literatures The University of Tokyo mitsu at symphony.plala.or.jp ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brifkin at WISC.EDU Sun May 18 02:06:41 2003 From: brifkin at WISC.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Sat, 17 May 2003 21:06:41 -0500 Subject: reasons to maintain a program Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers: Some of you have written me, off list, asking for some help in drafting letters of support for the Russian program at the University of Memphis. Our colleague Elizabeth Blake has already written to the list with specifics about the situation of her program, and I hope you will read her message to get some specifics on the context of the program. In addition to the specific situation of the University of Memphis, here is some more global information that might be of assistance to you in drafting a letter of this support: Russian as a language of enormous cultural significance (no student's understanding of world literature, art, or music can be complete without at least a serious introduction to Russian literature, art and music) Russian as a language of enormous political and strategic significance (students need to learn about the changing global realities and Russian-American geopolitical relations are of tremendous importance). Note here that Russian is a national language not only of the Russian Federation, but also of Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan; it is a lingua franca through much of Central Asia. Russian as a language of enormous economic significance: the Russian economy is booming and the US can expect to be importing large quantities of Russian oil and natural gas (cf recent article on front page of the NY Times Business section last week) in the next decade, when new pipelines will make it less expensive to import from Russia than from the Middle East. Of course, one can add many more reasons to this list: see the information on the AATSEEL website (why study Russian? a joint project of AATSEEL and ACTR). I have also written at length about this topic to SEELANGs in the past; that message is in the SEELANGs archive. Perhaps colleagues from programs that have survived a threat can write SEELANGs with information about the letters their administrators found compelling. Thank you for your efforts to help support this program. Sincerely, Ben Rifkin -- ================= Benjamin Rifkin Professor of Slavic Languages, Slavic Dept., UW-Madison 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Dr. Madison, WI 53706 USA voice: 608/262-1623; fax: 608/265-2814 http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/slavic/rifkin/ Director of the Russian School Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 voice: 802/443-5533; fax: 802/443-5394 http://www.middlebury.edu/~ls/russian/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Ulrich.Schmid at UNIBAS.CH Sun May 18 07:25:51 2003 From: Ulrich.Schmid at UNIBAS.CH (Ulrich.Schmid at UNIBAS.CH) Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 09:25:51 +0200 Subject: Vse my vyshli iz shineli Message-ID: There is quite a detailed discussion of this topic in: S.A. Rejser: "K istorii formuly «Vse my vyshli iz gogolevskoj Shineli»". In: Poetika i stilistika russkoj literatury. Pamjati Akademika Viktora Vladimirovicha Vinogradova. Leningrad 1971, 187-189. Ulrich Schmid University of Basel (Switzerland) -- ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beckpost at CENTURYTEL.NET Sun May 18 11:30:14 2003 From: beckpost at CENTURYTEL.NET (Becky Post) Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 06:30:14 -0500 Subject: reasons to maintain a program Message-ID: The high school Russian program in La Crosse, WI. was going to be cut this year. One thing I menioned in my letter urging them to not cut it was the fact that the US and Russia are partners in space exploration. A student who studied Russian in one of our high schools is planning to become an astronaut and is now in a university program studying toward that end. I was told, after they decided to reinstate the program, that this had been a compelling argument. Another thing that helped was that we have a strong sister city relationship with a city in Russia and people from that organization came forward to argue on behalf of continuing the program. We have serious budget problems in our state, however, and that affects all the schools. I'm not sure how much longer our Russian program will survive. Becky Post La Crosse, WI. > Perhaps colleagues from programs that have survived a threat can > write SEELANGs with information about the letters their > administrators found compelling. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Sun May 18 09:38:05 2003 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 09:38:05 +0000 Subject: reasons to maintain a program Message-ID: I seem to remember George Kalbouss at an AATSEEL convention a few years ago saying that what worked was support from the community and local legislators. Emily Tall Benjamin Rifkin wrote: > Dear SEELANGers: > > Some of you have written me, off list, asking for some help in > drafting letters of support for the Russian program at the University > of Memphis. > > Our colleague Elizabeth Blake has already written to the list with > specifics about the situation of her program, and I hope you will > read her message to get some specifics on the context of the program. > > In addition to the specific situation of the University of Memphis, > here is some more global information that might be of assistance to > you in drafting a letter of this support: > > Russian as a language of enormous cultural significance (no student's > understanding of world literature, art, or music can be complete > without at least a serious introduction to Russian literature, art > and music) > > Russian as a language of enormous political and strategic > significance (students need to learn about the changing global > realities and Russian-American geopolitical relations are of > tremendous importance). Note here that Russian is a national > language not only of the Russian Federation, but also of Kazakhstan > and Kyrgyzstan; it is a lingua franca through much of Central Asia. > > Russian as a language of enormous economic significance: the Russian > economy is booming and the US can expect to be importing large > quantities of Russian oil and natural gas (cf recent article on front > page of the NY Times Business section last week) in the next decade, > when new pipelines will make it less expensive to import from Russia > than from the Middle East. > > Of course, one can add many more reasons to this list: see the > information on the AATSEEL website (why study Russian? a joint > project of AATSEEL and ACTR). I have also written at length about > this topic to SEELANGs in the past; that message is in the SEELANGs > archive. > > Perhaps colleagues from programs that have survived a threat can > write SEELANGs with information about the letters their > administrators found compelling. > > Thank you for your efforts to help support this program. > > Sincerely, > > Ben Rifkin > > -- > ================= > Benjamin Rifkin > > Professor of Slavic Languages, Slavic Dept., UW-Madison > 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Dr. > Madison, WI 53706 USA > voice: 608/262-1623; fax: 608/265-2814 > http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/slavic/rifkin/ > > Director of the Russian School > Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 > voice: 802/443-5533; fax: 802/443-5394 > http://www.middlebury.edu/~ls/russian/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Mon May 19 06:13:20 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Sun, 18 May 2003 23:13:20 -0700 Subject: Dat' tigalja In-Reply-To: <002301c31c56$65e6de20$12730b3e@n> Message-ID: > It's evident from the context that he means - ubezhat',but I would like >to know something more.I've found only - dat' tjagu - pospeshno >ubezhat',but I can't find nothing about - tigalja. Google gave three examples of the use of this obscure expression, two out which were from Zoshchenko: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&inlang=ru&ie=windows-1251&as_qdr=all&q=%22%E4 %E0%F2%FC+%F2%E8%E3%E0%EB%FF%22&lr=lang_ru _____________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a_strat at KHARKOV.COM Mon May 19 03:41:50 2003 From: a_strat at KHARKOV.COM (Alex) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 06:41:50 +0300 Subject: Dat' tigalja Message-ID: Reading a Zoshchenko's novel "Kakie u menja byli professiji" I've found a fraseologizm - the meaning of it is clear - from the context,but if someone could explain this world - tigalja? Ты,говорит,что,из наших рабочих? Нет,я особенно не смутился.Думаю - успею дать тигаля.Тем более - кругом народу нету и забор близко. It's evident from the context that he means - ubezhat',but I would like to know something more.I've found only - dat' tjagu - pospeshno ubezhat',but I can't find nothing about - tigalja. Thanks. Katarìna Peitlov� ,Ph.Dr. ************************************************************ Да, слово действительно необычное, диалектное. В наших краях в повседневной речи не встречается (Харьков). Но ведь фамилия у Зощенко украинская. Возможно, в каких-нибудь областях можно найти что-то похожее. По-русски обычно говорят "дать деру" или "смыться". По-украински "тикать" (тiкать, тiкати, втекти). Довольно похоже... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Vbelyanin at MTU.RU Mon May 19 04:28:58 2003 From: Vbelyanin at MTU.RU (Valery Belyanin) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 00:28:58 -0400 Subject: Dat' tigalja In-Reply-To: <003d01c31dbf$4a2e1940$2a234d50@LocalHost> Message-ID: Dear SEELANGERs I would suggest a misprint - it should be: dat' tyagacha дать тягача = to run away (colloquial) Best regards, Valery Belyanin, Editor of www.textology.ru Sunday, May 18, 2003, 11:41:50 PM, you wrote: A> Reading a Zoshchenko's novel "Kakie u menja byli professiji" I've found a fraseologizm - the meaning of it is clear - from the A> context,but if someone could explain this world - tigalja? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From peitlova at TISCALINET.IT Mon May 19 09:28:26 2003 From: peitlova at TISCALINET.IT (Edil Legno) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:28:26 +0200 Subject: dat' tigalja Message-ID: Valery Belyanin suggests it should be misprint. It can't be misprint.I've found this expression even in"Vodjanaja feerija" —А приятель его выказал себя с нехорошей стороны. Он поступил как подлец,пытаясь,так сказать,дать тигаля.Но был задержан слабой,но честной рукой приезжего.— It's evident from the context :ubezhat'. web site suggested by Alina Izraeli doesn't work,I've tried on www.google.ru - but it only repeats Zoshchenko and gave no explanation of the word - tigal', tigalja. I'm going on in my search,hope someone could find the ethymology. Best wishes and thanks to all . Katarìna Peitlovà,Ph.Dr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU Mon May 19 11:37:42 2003 From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 07:37:42 -0400 Subject: Dat' tigalja Message-ID: P. Ia. Chernykh, _Istoriko-etimologicheskii slovar' sovremennogo russkogo iazyka_ (Moscow, 1993), has an entry for _tigalia_ as in _dat' (zadat') tigalia_. He suggests an older form _tiagalia_ or perhaps _tiagolia_ and a connection with _dat' tiagacha_, _dat' tiaguna_, _dat' tiagu_, all of which are in Dal', unlike _dat' tiagalia_. Chernykh also cites the adjecti ve _tiagal'nyi_ as in the metallurgical term _tiagal'nye kleshchi_. He doubts a Turkic origin, which was apparently suggested by Dmitriev in _Leksikograf_ 3 (1958). Bob Rothstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a_strat at KHARKOV.COM Mon May 19 12:37:47 2003 From: a_strat at KHARKOV.COM (Alex) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 15:37:47 +0300 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: > posterity. I always thought that if one searched long enough one could find > an old film of the shoe-banging as well as "We will bury you" and "Your > grandchildren..." What a let-down to know that these defining Khrushchevian > moments (which actually got me interested in Russian) appear to be lost > forever. Dear Seelangers! Talking about Nikita Sergeewitch, memories and old films... I have a query for you. Memories of two old movies stuck in my mind. I would like to find those films. Maybe you could help me. The one was a famous cartoon promoting corn culture (the title was something like "Miracle maker" - 'Чудесница' in Russian). The other is a bit tricky. I saw it when I was almost a child so my memories may be deceiving. I think its title was "The Russian Miracle" (� усское чудо). Was it a feature film or just a propaganda documentary? I can't tell you for sure. I remember some high ranking foreigners (politicians? journalists?). It seems that Khruschev himself showed them around the state. I remember colour widescreen frames in which famous Soviet black limousines "Chaika" entered into a digger of a giant strepping excavator to be transferred to the opposite side of a ravine (building of a river dam? Or maybe an open coal mine?). Sadly enough I can't remember any other particular thing. И еще по поводу ботинка... Вспоминается песня Владимира Высоцкого: "...боитесь вы, что реваншисты в Бонне, что Вашингтон грозится перегнать... Но сам Хрущев сказал еще в ООНе, Что он покажет им "кузькиную мать"!... Как вы, наверное, знаете, народ сочинял огромное количество анекдотов и частушек о лысом, простодушном секретаре. Кое-что я помню. Если хотите, могу поделиться... Ну а если сравнивать Никиту со всеми последующими руководителями, включая Горбачева и Ельцина, то его речь звучала вполне интеллигентно! С точки зрения речи хорош был, правда, Андропов, но весьма кратковременно... Alexandre ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Mon May 19 15:56:29 2003 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 11:56:29 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <000501c31e11$ff4fc100$2a234d50@LocalHost> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 May 2003, Alex wrote: > Dear Seelangers! Talking about Nikita Sergeewitch, memories and old films... > I have a query for you. Memories of two old movies stuck in my mind. > I would like to find those films. Maybe you could help me. > The one was a famous cartoon promoting corn culture (the title was > something like "Miracle maker" - 'Чудесница' in Russian). I do not know wheather you are talking about the cartoon where the weeds sing: My rebjata rostom veliki, Ha-ha! Bravyje rebjata sornjaki, Ha-ha! My ovjos-pshenitsu sglozhem, Kukuruzu unichtozhim, Na poljah ostanetsja truha, Ha-ha! Sincerely, Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a_strat at KHARKOV.COM Mon May 19 16:49:39 2003 From: a_strat at KHARKOV.COM (Alex) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 19:49:39 +0300 Subject: missing letters Message-ID: Dear Seelangers! You maybe noticed that in two my last messages there are several missing letters - all cyrillic. In my "sent" folder I can see them all. I don't understand how it can be. Alexander ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU Mon May 19 16:30:29 2003 From: mllemily at ACSU.BUFFALO.EDU (Emily Tall) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 16:30:29 +0000 Subject: tour agencies Message-ID: Dear all, Can anyone recommend a tour company for Moscow and St. P. for some non-Russian speaking colleagues who want to spend about 10 days there? You can respond to me offline at mllemily at acsu.buffalo.edu. Thanks, Emily Tall ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon May 19 21:01:27 2003 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 17:01:27 -0400 Subject: missing letters Message-ID: Alex wrote: > Dear Seelangers! > > You maybe noticed that in two my > last messages there are several > missing letters - all cyrillic. > In my "sent" folder I can see them all. > I don't understand how it can be. Here's your answer, from your message header: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<<< -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a_strat at KHARKOV.COM Mon May 19 20:42:19 2003 From: a_strat at KHARKOV.COM (Alex) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 23:42:19 +0300 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: > Dear Seelangers! Talking about Nikita Sergeewitch, memories and old films... > I have a query for you. Memories of two old movies stuck in my mind. > I would like to find those films. Maybe you could help me. > The one was a famous cartoon promoting corn culture (the title was > something like "Miracle maker" - 'Чудесница' in Russian). I do not know wheather you are talking about the cartoon where the weeds sing: My rebjata rostom veliki, Ha-ha! Bravyje rebjata sornjaki, Ha-ha! My ovjos-pshenitsu sglozhem, Kukuruzu unichtozhim, Na poljah ostanetsja truha, Ha-ha! Sincerely, Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- YES! Exactly! Do you know where to get it? Thank you v.m! Alexander a_strat at kharkov.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Tue May 20 01:43:02 2003 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Mon, 19 May 2003 21:43:02 -0400 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging In-Reply-To: <004301c31e52$ae8047e0$29234d50@LocalHost> Message-ID: On Mon, 19 May 2003, Alex wrote: > > Dear Seelangers! Talking about Nikita Sergeewitch, memories and old films... > > I have a query for you. Memories of two old movies stuck in my mind. > > I would like to find those films. Maybe you could help me. > > The one was a famous cartoon promoting corn culture (the title was > > something like "Miracle maker" - '���������' in Russian). > > I do not know wheather you are talking about the cartoon where the weeds > sing: > > My rebjata rostom veliki, > Ha-ha! > Bravyje rebjata sornjaki, > Ha-ha! > My ovjos-pshenitsu sglozhem, > Kukuruzu unichtozhim, > Na poljah ostanetsja truha, > Ha-ha! > > > Sincerely, > > Edward Dumanis > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > YES! Exactly! Do you know where to get it? > > Thank you v.m! Alexander a_strat at kharkov.com > I do not know this, but maybe somebody else on the list knows. I want to know it too. I remember only 2 more lines from there (I guess they were the very first lines): Nas ne sejali, ne zhali, Ha-ha! Khleboroby nas ne uvazhali, Ha-ha! Sincerely, Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From BERRYMJZ at SSC1.BHAM.AC.UK Tue May 20 07:23:36 2003 From: BERRYMJZ at SSC1.BHAM.AC.UK (MJ Berry) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 08:23:36 +0100 Subject: Russian Miracle In-Reply-To: <000501c31e11$ff4fc100$2a234d50@LocalHost> Message-ID: I remember seeing a film of this name many years ago - as I recall it was made in East Germany by a British couple named Thorndike.... MIke Berry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Berry Centre for Russian and Tel: 0121-414-6355 East European Studies, Fax: 0121-414-3423 University of Birmingham, email: m.j.berry.rus at bham.ac.uk Birmingham B15 2TT, UK. ***** Umom Rossiyu ne ponyat' ***** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dietmar at STANFORD.EDU Tue May 20 08:12:51 2003 From: dietmar at STANFORD.EDU (Dietmar Hochmuth) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 01:12:51 -0700 Subject: Russian Miracle // Russkoe chudo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Was this a question? If yes, here are the credits of this film: It was not a British couple, but a man with a British name (coming from a very rich German family and seeking the opposite of his class, founding it in Babelsberg/GDR): Andrew Thorndike (1909-1979), his wife: Annelie (born 1925) - a (so to say) "key couple" among the East German documentary Filmmakers. The film was mostly a collage of archive footage; very welcome in the USSR (they received 'even' the Lenin Price). DAS RUSSISCHE WUNDER: Written and directed by Annelie and Andrew Thorndike. Music by Paul Dessau. B&W - 35 mm, 2 parts - it was a co-production (GDR/USSR) from 1963. Here is the poster: http://www.bis.uni-oldenburg.de/defa/0656/0656p.htm Feel free to ask more - I knew these people and there "very special" working conditions (due to their exemplary bourgeois background). Kind regards, Dietmar Hochmuth www.stanford.edu/~dietmar -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of MJ Berry Sent: Dienstag, 20. Mai 2003 00:24 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Russian Miracle I remember seeing a film of this name many years ago - as I recall it was made in East Germany by a British couple named Thorndike.... MIke Berry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Berry Centre for Russian and Tel: 0121-414-6355 East European Studies, Fax: 0121-414-3423 University of Birmingham, email: m.j.berry.rus at bham.ac.uk Birmingham B15 2TT, UK. ***** Umom Rossiyu ne ponyat' ***** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. 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Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From raul_macdiarmid at WEB.DE Tue May 20 11:42:57 2003 From: raul_macdiarmid at WEB.DE (Raul MacDiarmid) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 13:42:57 +0200 Subject: Children's game Message-ID: Dear colleagues, In a movie I recall seeing a Russian children's bedtime game in which the child lies tummy-down on the adult's lap while the adult mimics the tread of various animals on the kid's back: thus a slon would be two slow ponderous fists, a chicken would be springy splayed fingers, etc. Can anyone fill me in on the details of this enthralling game, its name, its "rules" etc. Raul MacDiarmid ________________________________________________________________ Mit der Grupppen-SMS von WEB.DE FreeMail können Sie eine SMS an alle Freunde gleichzeitig schicken: http://freemail.web.de/features/?mc=021179 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rkreuzer at STLAWU.EDU Tue May 20 13:25:56 2003 From: rkreuzer at STLAWU.EDU (Ruth Kreuzer) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 09:25:56 -0400 Subject: Children's game Message-ID: > a Russian children's bedtime game ... tread of various animals on the kid's back..., etc. > Can anyone fill me in on the details of this enthralling game, its name, its "rules" etc. > I don't know how "Russian" this game is, it is something I did in the US when I was a kid too. One of us kids would lie on his/her belly, the other would send all kinds of animal treads "running" across the person's back, and when that person was at the peak of anticipation, the question would be asked, "Why are the animals all running? Because the elephants are coming!"...and of course the pounding on the back then began. R. Kreuzer ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a_strat at KHARKOV.COM Tue May 20 14:20:53 2003 From: a_strat at KHARKOV.COM (Alex) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 17:20:53 +0300 Subject: missing letters Message-ID: > Alex wrote: > > > Dear Seelangers! > > > > You maybe noticed that in two my > > last messages there are several > > missing letters - all cyrillic. > > In my "sent" folder I can see them all. > > I don't understand how it can be. > > Here's your answer, from your message header: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > >>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<<< Thank you Paul. But both are: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <<<---------------------- X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 I see it pretty well (returned from the server) utf-8 because it was set in the original letter. Of course I could change it to koi-8 but I didn't. You know, in case of "7bit" all characters would turn into "?" signs. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Vbelyanin at MTU.RU Tue May 20 14:35:43 2003 From: Vbelyanin at MTU.RU (Valery Belyanin) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:35:43 -0400 Subject: Children's game In-Reply-To: <200305201142.h4KBgvQ22451@mailgate5.cinetic.de> Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers >>From my happy childhood I remember "Idjot koza rogataya za malymy rebyatami" (here a goat with horns goes for little kids) and the little finger and the ukazatelnyj finger are in front and the rest three are like a head of a goat. and two fingers like in Victory behind the head mean a hair Best regards, Valery Belyanin, editor of www.textology.ru Tuesday, May 20, 2003, 7:42:57 AM, you wrote: RM> Dear colleagues, RM> In a movie I recall seeing a Russian children's bedtime game in which the child lies tummy-down on the adult's lap while the adult mimics the tread of various animals on the kid's back: thus a RM> slon would be two slow ponderous fists, a chicken would be springy splayed fingers, etc. RM> Can anyone fill me in on the details of this enthralling game, its name, its "rules" etc. RM> Raul MacDiarmid ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From e.gapova at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Tue May 20 15:05:56 2003 From: e.gapova at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Elena Gapova) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 11:05:56 -0400 Subject: Children's game Message-ID: "All of us" experinced this, in some form, which was not thought of as a game, but as a kind of cuddling, an "excuse" for a parent's loving touch. Elena Gapova > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rakitya at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU Tue May 20 15:56:48 2003 From: rakitya at MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU (Anna Rakityanskaya) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 10:56:48 -0500 Subject: Children's game In-Reply-To: <3ECA2CE4.7E590492@stlawu.edu> Message-ID: The game in question is actually a kiddy massage: an adult "draws pictures" and uses different strokes on a child's back that illustrate each line of the following rhyme: Rel'sy, rel'sy, shpaly, shpaly, Ekhal poezd zapozdalyi. Iz poslednego okoshka Vysypalas' kartoshka. Shel slon - potoptal, Shli kury - poklevali, etc. Frankly, I don't remember the part about the animals very well. But I use the first half of the rhyme every day to wake my son up in the morning. It works great! Anna Rakityanskaya University of Texas at Austin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Tue May 20 17:12:35 2003 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 13:12:35 -0400 Subject: missing letters Message-ID: Alex wrote: > > Alex wrote: > > > > > Dear Seelangers! > > > > > > You maybe noticed that in two my > > > last messages there are several > > > missing letters - all cyrillic. > > > In my "sent" folder I can see them all. > > > I don't understand how it can be. > > > > Here's your answer, from your message header: > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > >>>>> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <<<< > > Thank you Paul. > But both are: > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="utf-8" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <<<---------------------- > X-Priority: 3 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 > > I see it pretty well (returned from the server) > utf-8 because it was set in the original letter. Of course I > could change it to koi-8 but I didn't. You know, in case of "7bit" > all characters would turn into "?" signs. Yes, that's what I expected because I saw and replied to your complaint before I saw your original message, which BTW came through fine. Of course, as a nonnative speaker, I might have overlooked a spelling error or two... ;-) If the message is garbled in your Sent mailbox but comes through fine from the CUNY server, it's probably a local display setting, and I can't help with that because I don't use Outlook Distress. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gadassov at IFRANCE.COM Tue May 20 14:43:35 2003 From: gadassov at IFRANCE.COM (gadassov) Date: Tue, 20 May 2003 16:43:35 +0200 Subject: missing letters In-Reply-To: <003901c31e43$16d4e900$2d234d50@LocalHost> Message-ID: le 19/05/03 18:49, Alex à a_strat at KHARKOV.COM a écrit : > Dear Seelangers! > > You maybe noticed that in two my > last messages there are several > missing letters - all cyrillic. > In my "sent" folder I can see them all. > I don't understand how it can be. > > Alexander I perfectly received the whole of your cyrillic text. I am always fond of old анекдоты. Today, that's a part of civilization history and somebody ought to keep them ! Georges By the way: when Khroutchev went to Paris, at his coming out of the plane, a military band played antems: I played the big drum! _____________________________________________________________________ Envie de discuter en "live" avec vos amis ? T�l�charger MSN Messenger http://www.ifrance.com/_reloc/m la 1�re messagerie instantan�e de France ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a_strat at KHARKOV.COM Wed May 21 04:48:13 2003 From: a_strat at KHARKOV.COM (Alex) Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 07:48:13 +0300 Subject: Khrushchev's words and his shoe banging Message-ID: > I do not know this, but maybe somebody else on the list knows. > I want to know it too. > Sincerely, > Edward Dumanis Thank you anyway! I admire this mailing list! It's fantastic! If I manage to find the cartoon I'll let you know. (just want to show it to my kids) To Paul B. Gallagher (sorry for piling all answers in one message - CUNY server won't let me send too many letters per day): Before Outlook Express I was using Netscape and had much bigger headache! (with encoding) Nothing is perfect. The best tool I think is the one which you know better... To George > I perfectly received the whole of your cyrillic text. (There were just 3 or 4 letters missing (and that was funny!) all - not very important. Perhaps nobody would notice if I didn't point it out). > By the way: when Khroutchev went to Paris, at his coming out of the plane, a > military band played antems: I played the big drum! You know, when general de Gaulle visited Moscow, I happend to stay in my aunts room in Leninsky avenue (the way from Vnukovo airport). Nikita and de Gaulle were passing by along the avenue in an opened car. I took some pictures from my window. I'll try to find those snapshots. Alexander ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From condee at PITT.EDU Wed May 21 18:42:14 2003 From: condee at PITT.EDU (Nancy Condee) Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 14:42:14 -0400 Subject: Edet chizhik v lodochke? Message-ID: I am wondering if the list could provide background information on the children's rhyme "Edet chizhik v lodochke"? I am less interested in its citation, as in German's _Khrustalev_, than in its place in Russo-Soviet culture more generally. Please reply off-list to condee at pitt.edu. Thanks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vsem at RUSSIANEXPEDITION.NET Wed May 21 21:32:44 2003 From: vsem at RUSSIANEXPEDITION.NET (Yelena) Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 01:32:44 +0400 Subject: Children's game Message-ID: Dear Valery, If you are interested originally this text (game) was used when a mother has decided to stop nursing a baby. It was some kind of slight threaten towards a baby (stop sucks mother's breast or a goat will catch you). The whole text is the following: Idet koza rogataia Za malymi rebyatami - Kto titiu soset, Togo koza zabodiot (zabodaet). Thank you for your attention, sincerely, Yelena Minyonok ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valery Belyanin" To: Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Children's game > Dear SEELANGers > >From my happy childhood I remember > "Idjot koza rogataya za malymy rebyatami" > (here a goat with horns goes for little kids) > and the little finger and the ukazatelnyj finger are in front and the > rest three are like a head of a goat. > and two fingers like in Victory behind the head mean a hair > > Best regards, Valery Belyanin, editor of www.textology.ru > > Tuesday, May 20, 2003, 7:42:57 AM, you wrote: > RM> Dear colleagues, > RM> In a movie I recall seeing a Russian children's bedtime game in which the child lies tummy-down on the adult's lap while the adult mimics the tread of various animals on the kid's back: thus a > RM> slon would be two slow ponderous fists, a chicken would be springy splayed fingers, etc. > RM> Can anyone fill me in on the details of this enthralling game, its name, its "rules" etc. > RM> Raul MacDiarmid > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA Wed May 21 23:35:49 2003 From: natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA (Natalia Pylypiuk) Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 17:35:49 -0600 Subject: new book examines Ukrainian-Russian relations Message-ID: Andreas Kappeler, Zenon E. Kohut, Frank E. Sysyn, and Mark von Hagen, eds., Culture, Nation, and Identity: The Ukrainian-Russian Encounter (1600-1945) (CIUS Press, 2003), xiv, 381 pp. Throughout Ukraine's turbulent history, its cultural and national identity and political fate were shaped and, in many instances, determined by the nature of its relations with neighbouring states and peoples. It is impossible to understand Ukrainian history without a grasp of the cultural, social, and political relations between Ukrainians and Russians, Poles, Germans, Belarusians, Hungarians, Romanians, and other East and Central European nationalities. [...] Culture, Nation, and Identity: The Ukrainian-Russian Encounter (1600-1945) is based on a series of four sessions of a conference held alternately at Columbia University and Cologne University from June 1994 to September 1995. These sessions had their origin in both the world of great political events and the realm of scholarly discussions. Ukraine's declaration of independence, ratified by the referendum of 1 December 1991, and subsequent international recognition led to the dissolution of the Soviet Union on 25 December 1991. These developments made Ukrainian-Russian relations a major international issue. The establishment of these two independent neighbouring states ushered in a new, difficult, and uncertain phase in their relations. Since Russia would clearly remain a major world power, while Ukraine was the largest and one of the most populous states of Europe, those relations took on more than regional significance. The post-Soviet order depends largely on how these two countries work out their relations. The editors of Culture, Nation, and Identity, representing the East European History Seminar at Cologne University, the Harriman Institute at Columbia University, and the Canadian Institute of Ukrainian Studies at the University of Alberta, invited seventy specialists to examine the Russian-Ukrainian encounter in four chronological symposia, from the seventeenth century to the present. The present volume is a selection of sixteen articles developed from presentations on the Ukrainian-Russian encounter from the early modern period to World War II. In their contributions, scholars from Canada, Germany, Russia, Ukraine, and the United States employ diverse methodologies to examine the many spheres in which Russians and Ukrainians and their identities and cultures interacted. [...] [the above text is by Marko Stech] ******* Book on a related topic: David Saunders, The Ukrainian Impact on Russian Culture, 1750-1850 (415 pp.) ******* (Descriptions and sample pages of these, as well as other CIUS Press publications, may be found at ). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From annaplis at MAIL.RU Thu May 22 09:39:18 2003 From: annaplis at MAIL.RU (Anna Plisetskaya) Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 13:39:18 +0400 Subject: HELP: Bishop - thwarts, strings, gunnels Message-ID: Dear SEELANGERS, I am translating into Russian a poem by Elizabeth Bishop "The Fish", and there are some lines at the end of it I don't quite understand. The heroine sitting in a boat has caught a big fish. I cannot understand some parts of the boat, especially strings: I stared and stared and victory filled up the little rented boat, from the pool of bilge where oil had spread a rainbow around the rusted engine to the bailer rusted orange, the sun-cracked thwarts, the oarlocks on their strings, the gunnels--until everything was rainbow, rainbow, rainbow! And I let the fish go. The dictionaries give "banka na grebnoy shlyupke" for "thwart" and "planshir" for "gunnel". It still remains obscure for me but "oarlocks on their strings" are totally beyond my understanding. I would be very grateful for any ideas as it is rather urgent. Best, Anna ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhunter at MONROECC.EDU Thu May 22 10:25:17 2003 From: rhunter at MONROECC.EDU (Hunter, Robert (Psychology)) Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 06:25:17 -0400 Subject: HELP: Bishop - thwarts, strings, gunnels Message-ID: To prevent accidental dumping of an oarlock into the water, they are attached to the boat by a string. This is particularly likely in a boat that is rented. Cheers, Robert Hunter rhunter at monroecc.edu -----Original Message----- From: Anna Plisetskaya [mailto:annaplis at MAIL.RU] Sent: Thu 5/22/2003 5:39 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Cc: Subject: [SEELANGS] HELP: Bishop - thwarts, strings, gunnels Dear SEELANGERS, I am translating into Russian a poem by Elizabeth Bishop "The Fish", and there are some lines at the end of it I don't quite understand. The heroine sitting in a boat has caught a big fish. I cannot understand some parts of the boat, especially strings: I stared and stared and victory filled up the little rented boat, from the pool of bilge where oil had spread a rainbow around the rusted engine to the bailer rusted orange, the sun-cracked thwarts, the oarlocks on their strings, the gunnels--until everything was rainbow, rainbow, rainbow! And I let the fish go. The dictionaries give "banka na grebnoy shlyupke" for "thwart" and "planshir" for "gunnel". It still remains obscure for me but "oarlocks on their strings" are totally beyond my understanding. I would be very grateful for any ideas as it is rather urgent. Best, Anna ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From annaplis at MAIL.RU Thu May 22 10:46:06 2003 From: annaplis at MAIL.RU (Anna Plisetskaya) Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 14:46:06 +0400 Subject: HELP: Bishop - thwarts, strings, gunnels Message-ID: Thanks a lot, Robert! Anna > To prevent accidental dumping of an oarlock into the water, they are attached to the boat by a string. This is particularly likely in a boat that is rented. > Cheers, > Robert Hunter > rhunter at monroecc.edu > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tom.priestly at UALBERTA.CA Thu May 22 13:54:08 2003 From: tom.priestly at UALBERTA.CA (Tom Priestly) Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 07:54:08 -0600 Subject: HELP: Bishop - thwarts, strings, gunnels In-Reply-To: <001301c32047$09a0b600$f062bcd4@computer> Message-ID: Anna, I think my memory serves me right: when I was rowing in a college boat in England in the 1950s, the rowlocks were not fixed to the gunwales/sides of the boat; they (the rowlocks) were loose, so that if one rower mishandled his oar [only males rowed competetively, as I recall] the mishap was localized, rather than potentially leading to rocking the boat, and the rowlock could even come out of its mount. However, so that it might not fall over the side into the river, it was attached by a piece of thin rope to the gunwale. As to 'rowlocks' versus 'oarlocks', this may be a British versus US thing. So also for the spelling of 'gunwale/gunnel' which I may have wrong. I like the poem! Tom > > >The dictionaries give "banka na grebnoy shlyupke" for "thwart" and >"planshir" for "gunnel". It still remains obscure for me but "oarlocks on >their strings" are totally beyond my understanding. > >I would be very grateful for any ideas as it is rather urgent. > >Best, >Anna > >- -- ========================= Prof. Emeritus Tom Priestly Modern Languages & Cultural Studies University of Alberta Edmonton AB Canada T6E 1E6 phone 780-469-2920 fax 780-492-9106 e-mail: tom.priestly at ualberta.ca http://myprofile.cos.com/priestlt69 ========================= ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From annaplis at MAIL.RU Thu May 22 15:07:37 2003 From: annaplis at MAIL.RU (Anna Plisetskaya) Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 19:07:37 +0400 Subject: HELP: Bishop - thwarts, strings, gunnels Message-ID: Thank you very much, Tom! You've been extremely helpful. Yours, Anna > Anna, > I think my memory serves me right: when I was rowing in a college > boat in England in the 1950s, the rowlocks were not fixed to the > gunwales/sides of the boat; they (the rowlocks) were loose, so that > if one rower mishandled his oar [only males rowed competetively, as I > recall] the mishap was localized, rather than potentially leading to > rocking the boat, and the rowlock could even come out of its mount. > However, so that it might not fall over the side into the river, it > was attached by a piece of thin rope to the gunwale. > As to 'rowlocks' versus 'oarlocks', this may be a British versus US > thing. So also for the spelling of 'gunwale/gunnel' which I may have > wrong. > I like the poem! > Tom > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fsciacca at HAMILTON.EDU Fri May 23 15:34:34 2003 From: fsciacca at HAMILTON.EDU (Frank Sciacca) Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 11:34:34 -0400 Subject: Photo of the shoe In-Reply-To: <0HF700IFIXCHGO@mail.hamilton.edu> Message-ID: I haven't been following the Khruschev discussion religiously, so pardon if someone else found this... but here is a photo from the New York Times archive: Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, with his shoe before him, at the United Nations, 1960 Photo by Carl T. Gossett Jr. / The New York Times Photo Archives http://www.nytimes.com/nytstore/photos/americanexp/1960/NSAPFS5.html Frank -- Franklin A. Sciacca Assoc. Prof. of Russian Chair, Program in Russian Studies Hamilton College 198 College Hill Road Clinton, New York 13323 315-859-4773 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWU.EDU Fri May 23 16:16:47 2003 From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 12:16:47 -0400 Subject: Photo of the shoe Message-ID: Was the delegate from Spain timing the length of the shoe banging? (Refer to the original picture.) Actually, Taubman's discussion of the incident says that there's no doubt that NK was doing SOMTHING with his shoe. Rich _________________________________ Richard Robin, Associate Professor, Chair German and Slavic Dept. The George Washington University Washington, DC 20008 rrobin at gwu.edu http://home.gwu.edu/~rrobin Читаю по-русски во всех кодировках. Chitayu po-russki vo vsex kodirovkax. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Sciacca" To: Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 11:34 AM Subject: [SEELANGS] Photo of the shoe > I haven't been following the Khruschev discussion religiously, so > pardon if someone else found this... but here is a photo from the New > York Times archive: > > Soviet Premier Nikita Khrushchev, with his shoe before him, > at the United Nations, 1960 > Photo by Carl T. Gossett Jr. / The New York Times Photo Archives > > http://www.nytimes.com/nytstore/photos/americanexp/1960/NSAPFS5.html > > Frank > -- > Franklin A. Sciacca > Assoc. Prof. of Russian > Chair, Program in Russian Studies > Hamilton College > 198 College Hill Road > Clinton, New York 13323 > 315-859-4773 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA Fri May 23 19:06:55 2003 From: natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA (Natalia Pylypiuk) Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 13:06:55 -0600 Subject: CAS Conference in Halifax, Dalhousie University In-Reply-To: <001301c32047$09a0b600$f062bcd4@computer> Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The Canadian Association of Slavists is having its next meeting in Halifax (Nova Scotia) on May 29, 30 and 31. To see the program, please read the spring edition of the CAS' Newsletter: http://www.ualberta.ca/~csp/nlspring2003.pdf Registration may be done on site, at the Student Union Building (SUB) of Dalhousie University. Best regards, Natalia Pylypiuk, President Canadian Association of Slavists ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Mourka at HVC.RR.COM Sat May 24 12:55:49 2003 From: Mourka at HVC.RR.COM (Mourka) Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 08:55:49 -0400 Subject: Russia: Land of the Czars Message-ID: Hello anyone who might be interested in Russian History! Sunday and Monday, this weekend, the 25th and the 26th of May, the documentary, Russia: The Land of the Czars will be shown on 9:00 on the History channel. If you watch really closely, you may see my name in the credits at the very end. Don't blink, you know how fast those credits go by. Some of my Russian chachkas will be in the film. For example, Rasputin will be holding or wearing a large cross that is mine. Lenin's desk will have some of my things, etc. Most of the film was filmed in Russia but many things were filmed in a studio here in High Falls. Something to do on a rainy weekend............... Mourka ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Mourka at HVC.RR.COM Sat May 24 13:08:22 2003 From: Mourka at HVC.RR.COM (Mourka) Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 09:08:22 -0400 Subject: Russia: Land of the Czars Message-ID: Sorry. That's 9:00 pm Eastern Standard Time ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT Mon May 26 07:52:39 2003 From: gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT (Giampaolo Gandolfo) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 09:52:39 +0200 Subject: change of e-mail address Message-ID: I had to change my previous e-maill address and this is just a test to see if it is already effective on our list. Sorry for the trouble. Giampaolo Gandolfo new address. gianpaolo.gandolfo at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Mourka at HVC.RR.COM Mon May 26 12:37:49 2003 From: Mourka at HVC.RR.COM (Mourka) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 08:37:49 -0400 Subject: Russia: Land of the Czars Message-ID: Last minute program changes: Will be shown Monday and Tuesday, 26th and 27th at 9:00 Eastern Standard Time. They were hoping to be broadcast on the weekend. Also don't hold me responsible for the quality of this production. I was involved with a small film company which did a relatively minimal amount of work. Since this production was made for television, I have my doubts about the accuracy and can only hope for the best Already I am not too crazy about all the hype and the ads for it. Mourka ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From condee at PITT.EDU Mon May 26 13:22:51 2003 From: condee at PITT.EDU (Nancy Condee) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 09:22:51 -0400 Subject: Russia: Land of the Czars In-Reply-To: <001101c32383$9ddb78c0$6401a8c0@hvc.rr.com> Message-ID: The _New York Times_ today gave it a good review, even while acknowledging the hype. -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Mourka Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:38 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Russia: Land of the Czars Last minute program changes: Will be shown Monday and Tuesday, 26th and 27th at 9:00 Eastern Standard Time. They were hoping to be broadcast on the weekend. Also don't hold me responsible for the quality of this production. I was involved with a small film company which did a relatively minimal amount of work. Since this production was made for television, I have my doubts about the accuracy and can only hope for the best Already I am not too crazy about all the hype and the ads for it. Mourka ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at SPRINT.CA Mon May 26 13:33:03 2003 From: colkitto at SPRINT.CA (colkitto) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 09:33:03 -0400 Subject: Russia: Land of the Czars Message-ID: I hope the review wasn't written by Jayson Blair, or anyone who hired him!!!!!!!! Robert Orr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nancy Condee" To: Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 9:22 AM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Russia: Land of the Czars > The _New York Times_ today gave it a good review, even while acknowledging > the hype. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Mourka > Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 8:38 AM > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: [SEELANGS] Russia: Land of the Czars > > > Last minute program changes: Will be shown Monday and Tuesday, 26th and > 27th at 9:00 Eastern Standard Time. They were hoping to be broadcast on the > weekend. > > Also don't hold me responsible for the quality of this production. I was > involved with a small film company which did a relatively minimal amount of > work. Since this production was made for television, I have my doubts about > the accuracy and can only hope for the best Already I am not too crazy > about all the hype and the ads for it. > > Mourka > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From douglas at NYU.EDU Mon May 26 14:08:34 2003 From: douglas at NYU.EDU (Charlotte Douglas) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:08:34 -0400 Subject: Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace Message-ID: Goodness - it doesn't sound like a good review to me -- this is Alessandra Stanley at her most tongue-in-cheek! Here it is: >Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace > >May 26, 2003 >By ALESSANDRA STANLEY > >When the narrator of "Russia, Land of the Tsars," explains >that Ivan the Terrible was prepared to rule with a ruthless >hand, "even if it called for blood," the documentary cuts >to bright red blood oozing across a stone step. > >When viewers are told that the Russian Orthodox patriarch >condemns Czar Vasily for locking his barren wife, Salomea, >in a convent to marry Yelena and prophesies "terror and >tears," a lightning bolt flashes across a blackened screen. > > >And Catherine the Great's death by a sudden stroke is >illustrated by a woman's hand sliding lifelessly off an >open jewelry case. > >Tonight and tomorrow, the History Channel's four-hour look >at the Russian monarchy is one of those rare documentaries >that reach the highest level of television entertainment: >if it were any better, it would be worse. > >In this chronicle of czarist tyranny, from the rise of >Vladimir, Grand Prince of Kiev in the 10th century to the >fall of the Romanovs in 1918, there is always blood on the >step or blood on the steppes. Viewers are spared a dry >academic survey of history's landscape, with its complex >topography of statistic and detail, and its plate tectonics >of trend and theory. The History Channel's focus is fixed >on the peaks of death, disaster and repression; "Russia, >Land of the Tsars," bristles obligingly with pinnacles of >bad behavior. It's a pop-up textbook of grisly moments >brought to lurid life in heavily costumed and scored >re-enactments. > >Best known for its tireless retelling of World War II - >hours of engrossing archival shots of Hitler's last days or >the Yalta Conference - the History Channel also generously >relives the Kennedy assassination, the Hindenburg disaster >and the Lindbergh-baby kidnapping case. (The channel's Web >site invites hard-core buffs to "re-examine the Treaty of >Versailles.") "Russia, Land of the Tsars" is a departure >that is true to the History Channel's raison d'Ítre. > >Anyone who has sat through all four acts (and a prologue) >of Mussorgsky's opera idsrc="nyt_ttl" value="109809">"Boris >Godunov" knows that medieval Russian history >can be impenetrable. The documentary, blessedly, skips over >Boris Godunov altogether. He may be the best known of six >rulers who grabbed the throne during the Time of Troubles >between 1598 and 1613, but idsrc="nyt_ttl" >value="153770;215129;155330;108553">"Russia" >chose to showcase the more colorful "False Dmitri," a >Polish imposter who, once discovered, was killed and burned >and had his ashes stuffed in a cannon and fired back to >Poland. (The film cuts to a shot of a cannon firing across >a field.) > >Reform is signaled by a hand scribbling on parchment with a >quill pen, conspiracy with a close-up of a card table laden >with wine goblets and wreathed in cigar smoke, repression >by a wall of flames. (Bloodstained snow is reserved for >really major figures who died violently: Pushkin, the >assassinated Alexander II and Rasputin.) > >Even in a lavish, two-part special, the History Channel is >commendably frugal. The same shots of fur-hatted horsemen >galloping menacingly in slow motion across a sandy shore >are used to illustrate warrior invasions, from >ninth-century Vikings to the Mongol horde 400 years later. > >Some viewers may find the reshuffling of the same tableaus >too stinting, but it is actually quite fitting in a >documentary on Russia, a land where shortages are a way of >life; until recently, foreign films in Russia were shown >not with subtitles or dubbing, but with a Russian-language >narrator whose voice-over delivered the lines of all the >characters, from amorous ingÈnues to hard-boiled >detectives, in the same uninflected, sonorous tone. > >The historians gathered to shed light on the czars and >their empire include Dominic Lieven, a professor of Russian >history at the London School of Economics, and Michael >Farquhar, author of "A Treasury of Royal Scandals: The >Shocking True Stories of History's Wickedest, Weirdest, >Most Wanton Kings, Queens, Tsars, Popes and Emperors." > >But some of the more wanton details are left out: tales of >Catherine the Great's more unorthodox sexual escapades are >omitted. > >So are some of Russian history's most famous anecdotes. >Grigori Aleksandrovich Potemkin is identified as the >Empress's lover and adviser (cut to a man and woman >reclining on a rumpled bed, powdered wigs tossed aside), >but there is no time to explain that the rustic false >facades he erected along the route of her inspection tours >down the Volga were the origin of the term, "Potemkin >village." > >"Russia," cannot cover everything, but it delivers the >greatest hits of Russian history in a punchy, memorable >way. The documentary opens, predictably, with Churchill's >description of Russia as "a riddle wrapped in a mystery, >inside an enigma." > >But Professor Lieven has a perhaps more down-to-earth >explanation for the Russian empire's lasting allure. "It is >Europe," he says. "Then again, it isn't quite Europe." > >RUSSIA, LAND OF THE TSARS >The History Channel, tonight and >tomorrow at 9, Eastern and Pacific times; 8, Central time. > >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/26/arts/television/26STAN.html?ex=1054957580&ei= >1&en=743724eed5e91335 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From condee at PITT.EDU Mon May 26 14:12:18 2003 From: condee at PITT.EDU (Nancy Condee) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:12:18 -0400 Subject: Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alessandra Stanley's tongue-in-cheek, in my experience, leaves more blood on the gums than this. I was relieved at what--to me--read like amused restraint. -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Charlotte Douglas Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 10:09 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace Goodness - it doesn't sound like a good review to me -- this is Alessandra Stanley at her most tongue-in-cheek! Here it is: >Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace > >May 26, 2003 >By ALESSANDRA STANLEY > >When the narrator of "Russia, Land of the Tsars," explains >that Ivan the Terrible was prepared to rule with a ruthless >hand, "even if it called for blood," the documentary cuts >to bright red blood oozing across a stone step. > >When viewers are told that the Russian Orthodox patriarch >condemns Czar Vasily for locking his barren wife, Salomea, >in a convent to marry Yelena and prophesies "terror and >tears," a lightning bolt flashes across a blackened screen. > > >And Catherine the Great's death by a sudden stroke is >illustrated by a woman's hand sliding lifelessly off an >open jewelry case. > >Tonight and tomorrow, the History Channel's four-hour look >at the Russian monarchy is one of those rare documentaries >that reach the highest level of television entertainment: >if it were any better, it would be worse. > >In this chronicle of czarist tyranny, from the rise of >Vladimir, Grand Prince of Kiev in the 10th century to the >fall of the Romanovs in 1918, there is always blood on the >step or blood on the steppes. Viewers are spared a dry >academic survey of history's landscape, with its complex >topography of statistic and detail, and its plate tectonics >of trend and theory. The History Channel's focus is fixed >on the peaks of death, disaster and repression; "Russia, >Land of the Tsars," bristles obligingly with pinnacles of >bad behavior. It's a pop-up textbook of grisly moments >brought to lurid life in heavily costumed and scored >re-enactments. > >Best known for its tireless retelling of World War II - >hours of engrossing archival shots of Hitler's last days or >the Yalta Conference - the History Channel also generously >relives the Kennedy assassination, the Hindenburg disaster >and the Lindbergh-baby kidnapping case. (The channel's Web >site invites hard-core buffs to "re-examine the Treaty of >Versailles.") "Russia, Land of the Tsars" is a departure >that is true to the History Channel's raison d'Ítre. > >Anyone who has sat through all four acts (and a prologue) >of Mussorgsky's opera idsrc="nyt_ttl" value="109809">"Boris >Godunov" knows that medieval Russian history >can be impenetrable. The documentary, blessedly, skips over >Boris Godunov altogether. He may be the best known of six >rulers who grabbed the throne during the Time of Troubles >between 1598 and 1613, but idsrc="nyt_ttl" >value="153770;215129;155330;108553">"Russia" >chose to showcase the more colorful "False Dmitri," a >Polish imposter who, once discovered, was killed and burned >and had his ashes stuffed in a cannon and fired back to >Poland. (The film cuts to a shot of a cannon firing across >a field.) > >Reform is signaled by a hand scribbling on parchment with a >quill pen, conspiracy with a close-up of a card table laden >with wine goblets and wreathed in cigar smoke, repression >by a wall of flames. (Bloodstained snow is reserved for >really major figures who died violently: Pushkin, the >assassinated Alexander II and Rasputin.) > >Even in a lavish, two-part special, the History Channel is >commendably frugal. The same shots of fur-hatted horsemen >galloping menacingly in slow motion across a sandy shore >are used to illustrate warrior invasions, from >ninth-century Vikings to the Mongol horde 400 years later. > >Some viewers may find the reshuffling of the same tableaus >too stinting, but it is actually quite fitting in a >documentary on Russia, a land where shortages are a way of >life; until recently, foreign films in Russia were shown >not with subtitles or dubbing, but with a Russian-language >narrator whose voice-over delivered the lines of all the >characters, from amorous ingÈnues to hard-boiled >detectives, in the same uninflected, sonorous tone. > >The historians gathered to shed light on the czars and >their empire include Dominic Lieven, a professor of Russian >history at the London School of Economics, and Michael >Farquhar, author of "A Treasury of Royal Scandals: The >Shocking True Stories of History's Wickedest, Weirdest, >Most Wanton Kings, Queens, Tsars, Popes and Emperors." > >But some of the more wanton details are left out: tales of >Catherine the Great's more unorthodox sexual escapades are >omitted. > >So are some of Russian history's most famous anecdotes. >Grigori Aleksandrovich Potemkin is identified as the >Empress's lover and adviser (cut to a man and woman >reclining on a rumpled bed, powdered wigs tossed aside), >but there is no time to explain that the rustic false >facades he erected along the route of her inspection tours >down the Volga were the origin of the term, "Potemkin >village." > >"Russia," cannot cover everything, but it delivers the >greatest hits of Russian history in a punchy, memorable >way. The documentary opens, predictably, with Churchill's >description of Russia as "a riddle wrapped in a mystery, >inside an enigma." > >But Professor Lieven has a perhaps more down-to-earth >explanation for the Russian empire's lasting allure. "It is >Europe," he says. "Then again, it isn't quite Europe." > >RUSSIA, LAND OF THE TSARS >The History Channel, tonight and >tomorrow at 9, Eastern and Pacific times; 8, Central time. > >http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/26/arts/television/26STAN.html?ex=1054957580 &ei= >1&en=743724eed5e91335 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From douglas at NYU.EDU Mon May 26 14:41:06 2003 From: douglas at NYU.EDU (Charlotte Douglas) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:41:06 -0400 Subject: Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, you may be right -- although I had a good laugh! At least she gave us a good model for the viewing tonight -- >Alessandra Stanley's tongue-in-cheek, in my experience, leaves more blood on >the gums than this. I was relieved at what--to me--read like amused >restraint. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list >[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Charlotte Douglas >Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 10:09 AM >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: [SEELANGS] Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace > > >Goodness - it doesn't sound like a good review to me -- this is Alessandra >Stanley at her most tongue-in-cheek! > >Here it is: > > >>Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace >> >>May 26, 2003 >>By ALESSANDRA STANLEY >> >>When the narrator of "Russia, Land of the Tsars," explains >>that Ivan the Terrible was prepared to rule with a ruthless >>hand, "even if it called for blood," the documentary cuts >>to bright red blood oozing across a stone step. >> >>When viewers are told that the Russian Orthodox patriarch >>condemns Czar Vasily for locking his barren wife, Salomea, >>in a convent to marry Yelena and prophesies "terror and >>tears," a lightning bolt flashes across a blackened screen. >> >> >>And Catherine the Great's death by a sudden stroke is >>illustrated by a woman's hand sliding lifelessly off an >>open jewelry case. >> >>Tonight and tomorrow, the History Channel's four-hour look >>at the Russian monarchy is one of those rare documentaries >>that reach the highest level of television entertainment: >>if it were any better, it would be worse. >> >>In this chronicle of czarist tyranny, from the rise of >>Vladimir, Grand Prince of Kiev in the 10th century to the >>fall of the Romanovs in 1918, there is always blood on the >>step or blood on the steppes. Viewers are spared a dry >>academic survey of history's landscape, with its complex >>topography of statistic and detail, and its plate tectonics >>of trend and theory. The History Channel's focus is fixed >>on the peaks of death, disaster and repression; "Russia, >>Land of the Tsars," bristles obligingly with pinnacles of >>bad behavior. It's a pop-up textbook of grisly moments >>brought to lurid life in heavily costumed and scored >>re-enactments. >> >>Best known for its tireless retelling of World War II - >>hours of engrossing archival shots of Hitler's last days or >>the Yalta Conference - the History Channel also generously >>relives the Kennedy assassination, the Hindenburg disaster >>and the Lindbergh-baby kidnapping case. (The channel's Web >>site invites hard-core buffs to "re-examine the Treaty of >>Versailles.") "Russia, Land of the Tsars" is a departure >>that is true to the History Channel's raison d'Ítre. >> >>Anyone who has sat through all four acts (and a prologue) >>of Mussorgsky's opera >idsrc="nyt_ttl" value="109809">"Boris >>Godunov" knows that medieval Russian history >>can be impenetrable. The documentary, blessedly, skips over >>Boris Godunov altogether. He may be the best known of six >>rulers who grabbed the throne during the Time of Troubles >>between 1598 and 1613, but >idsrc="nyt_ttl" >>value="153770;215129;155330;108553">"Russia" >>chose to showcase the more colorful "False Dmitri," a >>Polish imposter who, once discovered, was killed and burned >>and had his ashes stuffed in a cannon and fired back to >>Poland. (The film cuts to a shot of a cannon firing across >>a field.) >> >>Reform is signaled by a hand scribbling on parchment with a >>quill pen, conspiracy with a close-up of a card table laden >>with wine goblets and wreathed in cigar smoke, repression >>by a wall of flames. (Bloodstained snow is reserved for >>really major figures who died violently: Pushkin, the >>assassinated Alexander II and Rasputin.) >> >>Even in a lavish, two-part special, the History Channel is >>commendably frugal. The same shots of fur-hatted horsemen >>galloping menacingly in slow motion across a sandy shore >>are used to illustrate warrior invasions, from >>ninth-century Vikings to the Mongol horde 400 years later. >> >>Some viewers may find the reshuffling of the same tableaus >>too stinting, but it is actually quite fitting in a >>documentary on Russia, a land where shortages are a way of >>life; until recently, foreign films in Russia were shown >>not with subtitles or dubbing, but with a Russian-language >>narrator whose voice-over delivered the lines of all the >>characters, from amorous ingÈnues to hard-boiled >>detectives, in the same uninflected, sonorous tone. >> >>The historians gathered to shed light on the czars and >>their empire include Dominic Lieven, a professor of Russian >>history at the London School of Economics, and Michael >>Farquhar, author of "A Treasury of Royal Scandals: The >>Shocking True Stories of History's Wickedest, Weirdest, >>Most Wanton Kings, Queens, Tsars, Popes and Emperors." >> >>But some of the more wanton details are left out: tales of >>Catherine the Great's more unorthodox sexual escapades are >>omitted. >> >>So are some of Russian history's most famous anecdotes. >>Grigori Aleksandrovich Potemkin is identified as the >>Empress's lover and adviser (cut to a man and woman >>reclining on a rumpled bed, powdered wigs tossed aside), >>but there is no time to explain that the rustic false >>facades he erected along the route of her inspection tours >>down the Volga were the origin of the term, "Potemkin >>village." >> >>"Russia," cannot cover everything, but it delivers the >>greatest hits of Russian history in a punchy, memorable >>way. The documentary opens, predictably, with Churchill's >>description of Russia as "a riddle wrapped in a mystery, >>inside an enigma." >> >>But Professor Lieven has a perhaps more down-to-earth >>explanation for the Russian empire's lasting allure. "It is >>Europe," he says. "Then again, it isn't quite Europe." >> >>RUSSIA, LAND OF THE TSARS >>The History Channel, tonight and >>tomorrow at 9, Eastern and Pacific times; 8, Central time. >> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/26/arts/television/26STAN.html?ex=1054957580 >&ei= >>1&en=743724eed5e91335 >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. 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Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From condee at PITT.EDU Mon May 26 14:41:23 2003 From: condee at PITT.EDU (Nancy Condee) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:41:23 -0400 Subject: Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Maybe it will help with recruitment. -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Charlotte Douglas Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 10:41 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace Yes, you may be right -- although I had a good laugh! At least she gave us a good model for the viewing tonight -- >Alessandra Stanley's tongue-in-cheek, in my experience, leaves more blood on >the gums than this. I was relieved at what--to me--read like amused >restraint. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list >[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Charlotte Douglas >Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 10:09 AM >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: [SEELANGS] Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace > > >Goodness - it doesn't sound like a good review to me -- this is Alessandra >Stanley at her most tongue-in-cheek! > >Here it is: > > >>Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace >> >>May 26, 2003 >>By ALESSANDRA STANLEY >> >>When the narrator of "Russia, Land of the Tsars," explains >>that Ivan the Terrible was prepared to rule with a ruthless >>hand, "even if it called for blood," the documentary cuts >>to bright red blood oozing across a stone step. >> >>When viewers are told that the Russian Orthodox patriarch >>condemns Czar Vasily for locking his barren wife, Salomea, >>in a convent to marry Yelena and prophesies "terror and >>tears," a lightning bolt flashes across a blackened screen. >> >> >>And Catherine the Great's death by a sudden stroke is >>illustrated by a woman's hand sliding lifelessly off an >>open jewelry case. >> >>Tonight and tomorrow, the History Channel's four-hour look >>at the Russian monarchy is one of those rare documentaries >>that reach the highest level of television entertainment: >>if it were any better, it would be worse. >> >>In this chronicle of czarist tyranny, from the rise of >>Vladimir, Grand Prince of Kiev in the 10th century to the >>fall of the Romanovs in 1918, there is always blood on the >>step or blood on the steppes. Viewers are spared a dry >>academic survey of history's landscape, with its complex >>topography of statistic and detail, and its plate tectonics >>of trend and theory. The History Channel's focus is fixed >>on the peaks of death, disaster and repression; "Russia, >>Land of the Tsars," bristles obligingly with pinnacles of >>bad behavior. It's a pop-up textbook of grisly moments >>brought to lurid life in heavily costumed and scored >>re-enactments. >> >>Best known for its tireless retelling of World War II - >>hours of engrossing archival shots of Hitler's last days or >>the Yalta Conference - the History Channel also generously >>relives the Kennedy assassination, the Hindenburg disaster >>and the Lindbergh-baby kidnapping case. (The channel's Web >>site invites hard-core buffs to "re-examine the Treaty of >>Versailles.") "Russia, Land of the Tsars" is a departure >>that is true to the History Channel's raison d'Ítre. >> >>Anyone who has sat through all four acts (and a prologue) >>of Mussorgsky's opera >idsrc="nyt_ttl" value="109809">"Boris >>Godunov" knows that medieval Russian history >>can be impenetrable. The documentary, blessedly, skips over >>Boris Godunov altogether. He may be the best known of six >>rulers who grabbed the throne during the Time of Troubles >>between 1598 and 1613, but >idsrc="nyt_ttl" >>value="153770;215129;155330;108553">"Russia" >>chose to showcase the more colorful "False Dmitri," a >>Polish imposter who, once discovered, was killed and burned >>and had his ashes stuffed in a cannon and fired back to >>Poland. (The film cuts to a shot of a cannon firing across >>a field.) >> >>Reform is signaled by a hand scribbling on parchment with a >>quill pen, conspiracy with a close-up of a card table laden >>with wine goblets and wreathed in cigar smoke, repression >>by a wall of flames. (Bloodstained snow is reserved for >>really major figures who died violently: Pushkin, the >>assassinated Alexander II and Rasputin.) >> >>Even in a lavish, two-part special, the History Channel is >>commendably frugal. The same shots of fur-hatted horsemen >>galloping menacingly in slow motion across a sandy shore >>are used to illustrate warrior invasions, from >>ninth-century Vikings to the Mongol horde 400 years later. >> >>Some viewers may find the reshuffling of the same tableaus >>too stinting, but it is actually quite fitting in a >>documentary on Russia, a land where shortages are a way of >>life; until recently, foreign films in Russia were shown >>not with subtitles or dubbing, but with a Russian-language >>narrator whose voice-over delivered the lines of all the >>characters, from amorous ingÈnues to hard-boiled >>detectives, in the same uninflected, sonorous tone. >> >>The historians gathered to shed light on the czars and >>their empire include Dominic Lieven, a professor of Russian >>history at the London School of Economics, and Michael >>Farquhar, author of "A Treasury of Royal Scandals: The >>Shocking True Stories of History's Wickedest, Weirdest, >>Most Wanton Kings, Queens, Tsars, Popes and Emperors." >> >>But some of the more wanton details are left out: tales of >>Catherine the Great's more unorthodox sexual escapades are >>omitted. >> >>So are some of Russian history's most famous anecdotes. >>Grigori Aleksandrovich Potemkin is identified as the >>Empress's lover and adviser (cut to a man and woman >>reclining on a rumpled bed, powdered wigs tossed aside), >>but there is no time to explain that the rustic false >>facades he erected along the route of her inspection tours >>down the Volga were the origin of the term, "Potemkin >>village." >> >>"Russia," cannot cover everything, but it delivers the >>greatest hits of Russian history in a punchy, memorable >>way. The documentary opens, predictably, with Churchill's >>description of Russia as "a riddle wrapped in a mystery, >>inside an enigma." >> >>But Professor Lieven has a perhaps more down-to-earth >>explanation for the Russian empire's lasting allure. "It is >>Europe," he says. "Then again, it isn't quite Europe." >> >>RUSSIA, LAND OF THE TSARS >>The History Channel, tonight and >>tomorrow at 9, Eastern and Pacific times; 8, Central time. >> >>http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/26/arts/television/26STAN.html?ex=105495758 0 >&ei= >>1&en=743724eed5e91335 >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. 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Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From douglas at NYU.EDU Mon May 26 15:24:07 2003 From: douglas at NYU.EDU (Charlotte Douglas) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 11:24:07 -0400 Subject: Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes indeed! >Maybe it will help with recruitment. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list >[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Charlotte Douglas >Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 10:41 AM >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace > > >Yes, you may be right -- although I had a good laugh! At least she gave us >a good model for the viewing tonight -- > > >>Alessandra Stanley's tongue-in-cheek, in my experience, leaves more blood >on >>the gums than this. I was relieved at what--to me--read like amused >>restraint. >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list >>[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Charlotte Douglas >>Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 10:09 AM >>To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >>Subject: [SEELANGS] Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace >> >> >>Goodness - it doesn't sound like a good review to me -- this is Alessandra >>Stanley at her most tongue-in-cheek! >> >>Here it is: >> >> >>>Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace >>> >>>May 26, 2003 >>>By ALESSANDRA STANLEY >>> >>>When the narrator of "Russia, Land of the Tsars," explains >>>that Ivan the Terrible was prepared to rule with a ruthless >>>hand, "even if it called for blood," the documentary cuts >>>to bright red blood oozing across a stone step. >>> >>>When viewers are told that the Russian Orthodox patriarch >>>condemns Czar Vasily for locking his barren wife, Salomea, >>>in a convent to marry Yelena and prophesies "terror and >>>tears," a lightning bolt flashes across a blackened screen. >>> >>> >>>And Catherine the Great's death by a sudden stroke is >>>illustrated by a woman's hand sliding lifelessly off an >>>open jewelry case. >>> >>>Tonight and tomorrow, the History Channel's four-hour look >>>at the Russian monarchy is one of those rare documentaries >>>that reach the highest level of television entertainment: >>>if it were any better, it would be worse. >>> >>>In this chronicle of czarist tyranny, from the rise of >>>Vladimir, Grand Prince of Kiev in the 10th century to the >>>fall of the Romanovs in 1918, there is always blood on the >>>step or blood on the steppes. Viewers are spared a dry >>>academic survey of history's landscape, with its complex >>>topography of statistic and detail, and its plate tectonics >>>of trend and theory. The History Channel's focus is fixed >>>on the peaks of death, disaster and repression; "Russia, >>>Land of the Tsars," bristles obligingly with pinnacles of >>>bad behavior. It's a pop-up textbook of grisly moments >>>brought to lurid life in heavily costumed and scored >>>re-enactments. >>> >>>Best known for its tireless retelling of World War II - >>>hours of engrossing archival shots of Hitler's last days or >>>the Yalta Conference - the History Channel also generously >>>relives the Kennedy assassination, the Hindenburg disaster >>>and the Lindbergh-baby kidnapping case. (The channel's Web >>>site invites hard-core buffs to "re-examine the Treaty of >>>Versailles.") "Russia, Land of the Tsars" is a departure >>>that is true to the History Channel's raison d'Ítre. >>> >>>Anyone who has sat through all four acts (and a prologue) >>>of Mussorgsky's opera >>idsrc="nyt_ttl" value="109809">"Boris >>>Godunov" knows that medieval Russian history >>>can be impenetrable. The documentary, blessedly, skips over >>>Boris Godunov altogether. He may be the best known of six >>>rulers who grabbed the throne during the Time of Troubles >>>between 1598 and 1613, but >>idsrc="nyt_ttl" >>>value="153770;215129;155330;108553">"Russia" >>>chose to showcase the more colorful "False Dmitri," a >>>Polish imposter who, once discovered, was killed and burned >>>and had his ashes stuffed in a cannon and fired back to >>>Poland. (The film cuts to a shot of a cannon firing across >>>a field.) >>> >>>Reform is signaled by a hand scribbling on parchment with a >>>quill pen, conspiracy with a close-up of a card table laden >>>with wine goblets and wreathed in cigar smoke, repression >>>by a wall of flames. (Bloodstained snow is reserved for >>>really major figures who died violently: Pushkin, the >>>assassinated Alexander II and Rasputin.) >>> >>>Even in a lavish, two-part special, the History Channel is >>>commendably frugal. The same shots of fur-hatted horsemen >>>galloping menacingly in slow motion across a sandy shore >>>are used to illustrate warrior invasions, from >>>ninth-century Vikings to the Mongol horde 400 years later. >>> >>>Some viewers may find the reshuffling of the same tableaus >>>too stinting, but it is actually quite fitting in a >>>documentary on Russia, a land where shortages are a way of >>>life; until recently, foreign films in Russia were shown >>>not with subtitles or dubbing, but with a Russian-language >>>narrator whose voice-over delivered the lines of all the >>>characters, from amorous ingÈnues to hard-boiled >>>detectives, in the same uninflected, sonorous tone. >>> >>>The historians gathered to shed light on the czars and >>>their empire include Dominic Lieven, a professor of Russian >>>history at the London School of Economics, and Michael >>>Farquhar, author of "A Treasury of Royal Scandals: The >>>Shocking True Stories of History's Wickedest, Weirdest, >>>Most Wanton Kings, Queens, Tsars, Popes and Emperors." >>> >>>But some of the more wanton details are left out: tales of >>>Catherine the Great's more unorthodox sexual escapades are >>>omitted. >>> >>>So are some of Russian history's most famous anecdotes. >>>Grigori Aleksandrovich Potemkin is identified as the >>>Empress's lover and adviser (cut to a man and woman >>>reclining on a rumpled bed, powdered wigs tossed aside), >>>but there is no time to explain that the rustic false >>>facades he erected along the route of her inspection tours >>>down the Volga were the origin of the term, "Potemkin >>>village." >>> >>>"Russia," cannot cover everything, but it delivers the >>>greatest hits of Russian history in a punchy, memorable >>>way. The documentary opens, predictably, with Churchill's >>>description of Russia as "a riddle wrapped in a mystery, >>>inside an enigma." >>> >>>But Professor Lieven has a perhaps more down-to-earth >>>explanation for the Russian empire's lasting allure. "It is >>>Europe," he says. "Then again, it isn't quite Europe." >>> >>>RUSSIA, LAND OF THE TSARS >>>The History Channel, tonight and >>>tomorrow at 9, Eastern and Pacific times; 8, Central time. >>> >>>http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/26/arts/television/26STAN.html?ex=105495758 >0 >>&ei= >>>1&en=743724eed5e91335 >>> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gsafran at STANFORD.EDU Mon May 26 16:17:33 2003 From: gsafran at STANFORD.EDU (gsafran at STANFORD.EDU) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 09:17:33 -0700 Subject: krytl'?? Message-ID: Dear SEELANGERS, I am stumped by a word I've found in a text. It's an ocherk written 1883-1886 by the Russian-Jewish writer S. An-sky. He's describing a scene in a tavern, set probably in the Vitebsk region where he grew up (and his mother ran a tavern) but possibly in the south where he was living later (the Dnepropetrovsk area). The speaker is a drunk peasant woman, who begins to sing what the other characters recognize as comically distorted versions of folksongs. Since I need to cite this passage in English, I'm trying to translate the songs. In the following one, the third line is totally mystifying. Chyvychainyi is probably chrezvychainyi, but krytl'? I've looked in Belorussian and Yiddish dictionaries and consulted people who know more than I do, but to no avail as yet. Any suggestions? Thanks, GS Papiroska, drug moj tajnyj! Liubliu tebia dushoi! Ia krytl' chyvychainyi! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Mon May 26 17:15:26 2003 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 13:15:26 -0400 Subject: Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > >Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace > > > >May 26, 2003 > >By ALESSANDRA STANLEY > > .............. Snip .............. > > > >until recently, foreign films in Russia were shown > >not with subtitles or dubbing, but with a Russian-language > >narrator whose voice-over delivered the lines of all the > >characters, from amorous ing�nues to hard-boiled > >detectives, in the same uninflected, sonorous tone. I think that this passage clearly demonstrates the arrogance of the reviewer. I am sure that many on the list know very well about a very long Russian/Soviet tradition to dub most of the foreign films that they obtained. I know that they were trying to dub them synchronizing lips motion with the voices which is quite difficult. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Mon May 26 20:35:00 2003 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 13:35:00 -0700 Subject: Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >> >Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace >> > >> >May 26, 2003 >> >By ALESSANDRA STANLEY >> > >.............. >Snip >.............. > >> > >> >until recently, foreign films in Russia were shown >> >not with subtitles or dubbing, but with a Russian-language >> >narrator whose voice-over delivered the lines of all the >> >characters, from amorous ing»nues to hard-boiled >> >detectives, in the same uninflected, sonorous tone. > >I think that this passage clearly demonstrates the arrogance of the >reviewer. I am sure that many on the list know very well about a very long >Russian/Soviet tradition to dub most of the foreign films that they >obtained. I know that they were trying to dub them synchronizing lips >motion with the voices which is quite difficult. Well, I would call it ingorance rather than arrogance. US media presented a unified arrogant assault some 10 years ago when all of a sudden all evening news and printed media ganged up on European movie industry for DUBBING American films, saying that in fact no one has *heard* Garbo speak (that's the reference to the slogan popular at the time when she went from silent films to the talkies), and that Italy has its own fast talking "Woody Allen" (who is almost better than the original) etc. In their arrogance they definitely abdicated all cultural relativism. _____________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave. NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jflgray at PACBELL.NET Mon May 26 17:52:03 2003 From: jflgray at PACBELL.NET (Jonathan Gray) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 10:52:03 -0700 Subject: Russian WWII film list In-Reply-To: <00ba01c31edb$6169ca60$23234d50@LocalHost> Message-ID: Thanks to everyone who provided recommendations for Russian films about WWII. Following is a listing of these films, books, and articles. Russian films: Come and see, Idi i smotri, E. Klimov, 1985. Fall of Berlin, Padenia Berlina, M. Andzhaparidze, et al, 1950. Cranes are flying, Letyat zhuravli, Kalatozov, 1957. Ballad of a soldier, Ballada o soldate, Chkhrai, 1959. A young war hero receives a short leave to see his mom back home. Ivan's childhood / My name is Ivan, Ivanovo detstvo, Tarkovsky, 1962. Mesto vstrechi izmenit nelzya, G. Yegiazarov, 1972. After Yu. Bondarev's novel of the same name about the Stalingrad battle. Farewell boys, Do svidaniya mal'chiki, M. Kalik. Zavtra byla voina, Yu. Kara, 1987. After the novel by the same title by B. Vasil'ev. A zori zdes' tikhie, 1972. After a story by B. Vasilyev of the same name. Story of girl anti-aircraft gunners. Ya russkij soldat, 1995. Based on B. Vasil'ev's story "V spiskakh ne znachilsya." Proverka na dorogakh, A. German, 1971 (1985). Dvadtsat' dnei bez voiny, after a play of the same name by Simonov. Khronika pikirueshchego bombardirovshchika (about dive-bomber pilots), N. Birman, 1967. Ascent, Voskhozhdenie, L. Shepit'ko, after "Sotnikov" by V. Bykau, 1976. TV series after V. Panova's "Sputniki." Osvobozhdenie, Yu. Ozerov, 1970-1972, 5-film series: Ognennaya duga; Proryv; Napravlenie glavnogo udara; Bitva za Berlin; and Poslednij shturm. Many actors took part in this series including V. Shukshin. Normandie-Neman, about the French air brigade fighting on the Soviet front and receiving the second name "Neman" after the Belorussian river, because of the role the brigade played in the 1944 battles in Byelorussia, 1960. Mashen'ka, Yu. Raizman, 1942 (note the release date -- film was a big success down all over the country). No greater love, Ona zashchishchaet rodinu, Ermler, 1943 (available at Stanford U. library). Sekretar' raikoma, Pyr'ev, 1942. Boevye kinosborniki, assorted directors, assorted studios, 1942. Oni srazhalis' za rodinu, 1975, S. Bondarchuk, after M. Sholokhov's novel of the same name. Another appearance for V. Shukshin. Not Russian: Ich war neunzehn (I was 19), DEFA studios, East Germany. 19-year-old German boy who had relocated with his family to Russia comes back to Germany as part of the Soviet troops. Coming of age. National identity. English-language documentaries: Russian front, 1999. Four-part box set. VHS. Amazon. $59.95. Battle of Stalingrad, VHS, $18.49. Amazon. French documentary from the 1960s with interviews of battle's survivors. Books: Film propaganda, Richard Taylor. The Russian context, Genevra Gerhart. Kino: A history of Russian and Soviet film, J. Leyda. Mass culture in Soviet Russia: Tales, poems, songs, movies, plays and folklore: 1917-1953. J. van Eldern adn R. Stites. The illustrated history of Soviet cinema, N. Zorkaya, 1989. Article: "Screening the past," Elena Stishova, Russian Life, Feb. 1997. To order Russian films: www.rbcvideo.com www.amazon.com Jonathan Gray California State University, Sacramento jflgray at pacbell.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Vbelyanin at MTU.RU Mon May 26 18:09:38 2003 From: Vbelyanin at MTU.RU (Valery Belyanin) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 14:09:38 -0400 Subject: Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers >> >until recently, foreign films in Russia were shown >> >not with subtitles or dubbing, but with a Russian-language >> >narrator whose voice-over delivered the lines of all the I may add that most of the western films (of low quality) that were shown on cable TV or existed on cheap (2$) video cassettes since 1991 were really translated voice-over by a interpreter. I do not remember his surname but he had a voice as if some clip (_prischepka dla belya_) was on his nose. But really good films esp. during Soviet times were dubbed by great actors. Though musicals like "West-Side story" (otherwise the songs could have been heard:) besides they were given other titles (not to identify easily when speaking with someone from _ottuda_) Best regards, Valery Belyanin Editor of www.textology.ru ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cmills at KNOX.EDU Mon May 26 18:35:31 2003 From: cmills at KNOX.EDU (Charles Mills) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 13:35:31 -0500 Subject: Tsars -- Hanky-Panky at the Russian Palace Message-ID: I don't see any cause for indignance. I think the reviewer is referring to the low-budget pirated copies that were ubiquitous throughout Poland and Russia in the late 80s and 90s in which one voice read for all parts. Sure enough, in film after film it sounded as if the narrator's nose was plugged, and Russian friends told me that was just what it was: because they were pirated, the piraters didn't want to get caught. Plugging their noses masked their true voice. > Dear SEELANGers > > >> >until recently, foreign films in Russia were shown > >> >not with subtitles or dubbing, but with a Russian-language > >> >narrator whose voice-over delivered the lines of all ... --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses by Declude Virus] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From klinela at PROVIDE.NET Tue May 27 02:10:52 2003 From: klinela at PROVIDE.NET (Laura) Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 22:10:52 -0400 Subject: Russian WWII film list Message-ID: I didn't see your original query, but for WWII films you might also look at Семнадцать мгновений весны. Best, Laura Kline Lecturer Wayne State University ---- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Gray" To: Sent: Monday, May 26, 2003 1:52 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] Russian WWII film list > Thanks to everyone who provided recommendations for Russian films about > WWII. Following is a listing of these films, books, and articles. > > Russian films: > Come and see, Idi i smotri, E. Klimov, 1985. > Fall of Berlin, Padenia Berlina, M. Andzhaparidze, et al, 1950. > Cranes are flying, Letyat zhuravli, Kalatozov, 1957. > Ballad of a soldier, Ballada o soldate, Chkhrai, 1959. A young war > hero receives a short leave to see his mom back home. > Ivan's childhood / My name is Ivan, Ivanovo detstvo, Tarkovsky, 1962. > Mesto vstrechi izmenit nelzya, G. Yegiazarov, 1972. After Yu. > Bondarev's novel of the same name about the Stalingrad battle. > Farewell boys, Do svidaniya mal'chiki, M. Kalik. > Zavtra byla voina, Yu. Kara, 1987. After the novel by the same title > by B. Vasil'ev. > A zori zdes' tikhie, 1972. After a story by B. Vasilyev of the same > name. Story of girl anti-aircraft gunners. > Ya russkij soldat, 1995. Based on B. Vasil'ev's story "V spiskakh ne > znachilsya." > Proverka na dorogakh, A. German, 1971 (1985). > Dvadtsat' dnei bez voiny, after a play of the same name by Simonov. > Khronika pikirueshchego bombardirovshchika (about dive-bomber pilots), > N. Birman, 1967. > Ascent, Voskhozhdenie, L. Shepit'ko, after "Sotnikov" by V. Bykau, 1976. > TV series after V. Panova's "Sputniki." > Osvobozhdenie, Yu. Ozerov, 1970-1972, 5-film series: Ognennaya duga; > Proryv; Napravlenie glavnogo udara; Bitva za Berlin; and Poslednij > shturm. Many actors took part in this series including V. Shukshin. > Normandie-Neman, about the French air brigade fighting on the Soviet > front and receiving the second name "Neman" after the Belorussian > river, because of the role the brigade played in the 1944 battles in > Byelorussia, 1960. > Mashen'ka, Yu. Raizman, 1942 (note the release date -- film was a big > success down all over the country). > No greater love, Ona zashchishchaet rodinu, Ermler, 1943 (available at > Stanford U. library). > Sekretar' raikoma, Pyr'ev, 1942. > Boevye kinosborniki, assorted directors, assorted studios, 1942. > Oni srazhalis' za rodinu, 1975, S. Bondarchuk, after M. Sholokhov's > novel of the same name. Another appearance for V. Shukshin. > > Not Russian: > Ich war neunzehn (I was 19), DEFA studios, East Germany. 19-year-old > German boy who had relocated with his family to Russia comes back to > Germany as part of the Soviet troops. Coming of age. National > identity. > > English-language documentaries: > Russian front, 1999. Four-part box set. VHS. Amazon. $59.95. > Battle of Stalingrad, VHS, $18.49. Amazon. French documentary from > the 1960s with interviews of battle's survivors. > > Books: > Film propaganda, Richard Taylor. > The Russian context, Genevra Gerhart. > Kino: A history of Russian and Soviet film, J. Leyda. > Mass culture in Soviet Russia: Tales, poems, songs, movies, plays and > folklore: 1917-1953. J. van Eldern adn R. Stites. > The illustrated history of Soviet cinema, N. Zorkaya, 1989. > > Article: > "Screening the past," Elena Stishova, Russian Life, Feb. 1997. > > To order Russian films: > www.rbcvideo.com > www.amazon.com > > Jonathan Gray > California State University, Sacramento > jflgray at pacbell.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From BERRYMJZ at SSC1.BHAM.AC.UK Tue May 27 07:21:25 2003 From: BERRYMJZ at SSC1.BHAM.AC.UK (MJ Berry) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 08:21:25 +0100 Subject: krytl'?? In-Reply-To: <1053965853.3ed23e1d32f36@webmail.stanford.edu> Message-ID: >From the context could it be a corruption of kuritel' ???? Mike Berry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Berry Centre for Russian and Tel: 0121-414-6355 East European Studies, Fax: 0121-414-3423 University of Birmingham, email: m.j.berry.rus at bham.ac.uk Birmingham B15 2TT, UK. ***** Umom Rossiyu ne ponyat' ***** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From peitlova at TISCALINET.IT Tue May 27 09:05:06 2003 From: peitlova at TISCALINET.IT (Edil Legno) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 11:05:06 +0200 Subject: krytl Message-ID: Verneje eto budet " krutit' papirosu" gotovit' sigaretu,zavarachivat' v bumagu. -ja krutil - Best wishes. Katarìna Peitlovà,Ph.Dr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wlindhout at IDC.NL Tue May 27 10:06:42 2003 From: wlindhout at IDC.NL (Willemijn Lindhout) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 12:06:42 +0200 Subject: New Resource: Sorbian Publications, 1693-1853 Message-ID: Sorbian Publications, 1693-1853 IDC Publishers makes available the oldest part of a vast Sorbian collection from the Library of the Russian Academy of Sciences in St. Petersburg. Sorbian writings are the cultural heritage of a West Slavic language group that used to be spoken in what is now south-eastern Germany. This collection, comprising 64 rare books and 5 periodicals, provides access to the religious, historical and linguistic heritage of Sorbian culture. All titles are available at: www.idc.nl/catalog/referer.php?c=403 Translations of the Bible The pride of the collection is fourteen translations of the Bible into Upper and Lower Sorbian. The first and complete translation into Upper Sorbian dated 1728, the first examples of Lower Sorbian, which are translations of the Old and New Testament date back to 1796 and 1706. Oldest Works on Sorbian Literature and Linguistics This collection contains the oldest works on Sorbian linguistics. The first extensive written Sorbian texts - translations of religious literature of the Reformation - were composed in the sixteenth century. The National Renaissance of Sorbian culture is reflected in the works of the early nineteenth century. * 69 titles * 397 microfiche * Printed guide * Including MARC21 Bibliographic Records ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lina.bernstein at FANDM.EDU Tue May 27 14:43:04 2003 From: lina.bernstein at FANDM.EDU (Lina Bernstein) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 10:43:04 -0400 Subject: Russian WWII film list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Another film to add to the list is Zhenya, Zhenechka i katiusha, written by Okudzhava, I believe. LB >Thanks to everyone who provided recommendations for Russian films about >WWII. Following is a listing of these films, books, and articles. > >Russian films: >Come and see, Idi i smotri, E. Klimov, 1985. >Fall of Berlin, Padenia Berlina, M. Andzhaparidze, et al, 1950. >Cranes are flying, Letyat zhuravli, Kalatozov, 1957. >Ballad of a soldier, Ballada o soldate, Chkhrai, 1959. A young war >hero receives a short leave to see his mom back home. >Ivan's childhood / My name is Ivan, Ivanovo detstvo, Tarkovsky, 1962. >Mesto vstrechi izmenit nelzya, G. Yegiazarov, 1972. After Yu. >Bondarev's novel of the same name about the Stalingrad battle. >Farewell boys, Do svidaniya mal'chiki, M. Kalik. >Zavtra byla voina, Yu. Kara, 1987. After the novel by the same title >by B. Vasil'ev. >A zori zdes' tikhie, 1972. After a story by B. Vasilyev of the same >name. Story of girl anti-aircraft gunners. >Ya russkij soldat, 1995. Based on B. Vasil'ev's story "V spiskakh ne >znachilsya." >Proverka na dorogakh, A. German, 1971 (1985). >Dvadtsat' dnei bez voiny, after a play of the same name by Simonov. >Khronika pikirueshchego bombardirovshchika (about dive-bomber pilots), >N. Birman, 1967. >Ascent, Voskhozhdenie, L. Shepit'ko, after "Sotnikov" by V. Bykau, 1976. >TV series after V. Panova's "Sputniki." >Osvobozhdenie, Yu. Ozerov, 1970-1972, 5-film series: Ognennaya duga; >Proryv; Napravlenie glavnogo udara; Bitva za Berlin; and Poslednij >shturm. Many actors took part in this series including V. Shukshin. >Normandie-Neman, about the French air brigade fighting on the Soviet >front and receiving the second name "Neman" after the Belorussian >river, because of the role the brigade played in the 1944 battles in >Byelorussia, 1960. >Mashen'ka, Yu. Raizman, 1942 (note the release date -- film was a big >success down all over the country). >No greater love, Ona zashchishchaet rodinu, Ermler, 1943 (available at >Stanford U. library). >Sekretar' raikoma, Pyr'ev, 1942. >Boevye kinosborniki, assorted directors, assorted studios, 1942. >Oni srazhalis' za rodinu, 1975, S. Bondarchuk, after M. Sholokhov's >novel of the same name. Another appearance for V. Shukshin. > >Not Russian: >Ich war neunzehn (I was 19), DEFA studios, East Germany. 19-year-old >German boy who had relocated with his family to Russia comes back to >Germany as part of the Soviet troops. Coming of age. National >identity. > >English-language documentaries: >Russian front, 1999. Four-part box set. VHS. Amazon. $59.95. >Battle of Stalingrad, VHS, $18.49. Amazon. French documentary from >the 1960s with interviews of battle's survivors. > >Books: >Film propaganda, Richard Taylor. >The Russian context, Genevra Gerhart. >Kino: A history of Russian and Soviet film, J. Leyda. >Mass culture in Soviet Russia: Tales, poems, songs, movies, plays and >folklore: 1917-1953. J. van Eldern adn R. Stites. >The illustrated history of Soviet cinema, N. Zorkaya, 1989. > >Article: >"Screening the past," Elena Stishova, Russian Life, Feb. 1997. > >To order Russian films: >www.rbcvideo.com >www.amazon.com > >Jonathan Gray >California State University, Sacramento >jflgray at pacbell.net > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- _________________________________________________________________________ Lina Bernstein, Chair Phone: (717) 291-4024 Department of German and Russian FAX: (717) 291-4352 Franklin & Marshall College e-mail L_Bernstein at Acad.FandM.edu Lancaster, PA 17604-3003 USA 522 W. Chestnut Street Phone: 717-399-7293 Lancaster, PA 17603 e-mail L_Bernstein at Acad.FandM.edu __________________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From zodyp at BELOIT.EDU Tue May 27 19:59:44 2003 From: zodyp at BELOIT.EDU (Patricia L. Zody) Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 14:59:44 -0500 Subject: Summer Teaching/Czech Message-ID: A graduate teaching assistant is needed for Beloit College's summer intensive Czech program (July 9, 2003 - August 8, 2003). The course, with an average enrollment of six to eight students, has one instructor and one graduate teaching assistant. Instructors collaborate with each other and the CLS Director on curriculum, syllabi, and instruction. Duties include classroom teaching and evaluation, and assistance with organizing cultural activities for the program. Teaching assistants will be expected to live on-campus (single occupancy), eat meals with the students at lunch in the dining commons, and be available to students evenings and weekends. The minimum qualification for graduate teaching assistants is an M.A. progress. Salary is competitive, and includes room and board. Employment is contingent upon new employees providing documents verifying U.S. citizenship or, for non-citizens, documents verifying legal permission to work in the United States. Send cover letter, curriculum vitae, and list of three references to Patricia L. Zody, Center for Language Studies, Beloit College, 700 College Street, Beloit WI 53511. You may also submit your application electronically as an attached document to cls at beloit.edu. Applications will be accepted until the position is filled. For more information about the summer language programs, please call 608-363-2277 or visit our Web site at http://www.beloit.edu/~cls. AA/EEO Employer. Director Center for Language Studies Beloit College 700 College Street Beloit, Wisconsin 53511 608/363-2277 (voice) 608/363-2082 (fax) cls at beloit.edu http://www.beloit.edu/~cls ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ml.onurb at SWISSONLINE.CH Wed May 28 07:34:25 2003 From: ml.onurb at SWISSONLINE.CH (Bruno Aeschbacher) Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 09:34:25 +0200 Subject: New Multi Language Resources Kit for Mac OS 9 / X Message-ID: Dear listmembers, Just got an email from Hermessoft and thought you might find it useful. Among others, this company sells a multilanguage kit (including Cyrillic and Glagolitic) for the Mac which, it seems, is hard to get by, specially for Mac OS 8 & 9. I do not really know them and have no stake in the company ;-). Regards, Bruno Aeschbacher Freelance translator Geneva, Switzerland onurb at swissonline.ch http://www.onurb.ch -----Original Message----- HermesSoft Company just released the newest Multi Language Resources Kit 3.0 for Mac OS 8.x/9.x (up to 9.22) and Mac OS X (10.2 and newer versions). http://www.hermessoft.com http://www.hermessoft.com/newproject/multilang/mac_kit.html Multi Language Resources (MLR 3) Kit 3.0 for Mac OS 8.x/9.x (up to 9.22) MLR 3 for Mac OS 8/9 has improved keyboard support and full set of keyboard drivers for all Central European, Cyrillic, Greek languages, as some like Turkish, Rumanian and Croatian, used under Roman language script. Many of this drivers are not found in the Apple Mac OS 8/9. It has a new keyboard flags for easy identification of the installed keyboards. The full number of keyboard drives follows: CE Script with Polish, Czech and Hungarian keyboard drivers; Additional CE resources - fonts Chicago CE, Geneva CE and additional keyboard drivers - Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Slovenian Cyrillic Script with Russian, Bulgarian, Ukrainian keyboard drivers; Additional Cyrillic resources - keyboard drivers Bulgarian for PowerBook, Ukrainian for PB, Belorussian, Macedonian, Serbian; Greek Script, Greek keyboard drivers and additional font CP Greek; Additional keyboard drivers for Roman Script Croatian, Turkish, Rumanian Script Switcher application - with this application you can switch the primary language script of the Mac OS 8/9. =========================================================================== = Multi Language Resources (MLR 3) Kit 3.0 for Mac OS X tested up to 10.2.6) MLR 3 for Mac OS 8/9 has improved keyboard support and full set of keyboard drivers for all Central European, Cyrillic, as some like Turkish, Rumanian and Croatian, used under Roman language script. Many of this drivers are not found in the Apple Mac OS X. It has a new keyboard flags for easy identification of the installed keyboards. This installer will install the Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Slovenian, Bulgarian for PowerBook (Phonetic), Macedonian, Serbian/Cyrillic, Ukrainian for PowerBook, Byelorussian, Croatian, Turkish, Rumanian keyboard drivers for Mac OS X (v10.2.x). The keyboard drivers are supporting the language scripts as follows: == Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian, Slovenian - as CE language script and resources; == Bulgarian Phonetic, Macedonian, Serbian/Cyrillic, Ukrainian for PB, Belorussian - as Cyrillic language script and resources; == Croatian, Turkish, Rumanian are in the Roman Script. The keyboards are tested with all major applications under Mac OS X (v 10.2 to 10.2.6) as: Adobe InDesign 2.x, Adobe Photoshop 7.x, Adobe Illustrator 10.x, Corel Draw Graphic Suite 11, Microsoft Office X, Micromedia FreeHand 11 and MX. If You work with some special applications please ask for supporting. Please if you have any questions concerning the Multi language resources 3.0 welcome. regards Hermessoft Company http://www.hermessoft.com The web site of Cyrillic and Multi language fonts. Type has many faces! We keep them all together! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at ATTBI.COM Wed May 28 19:17:19 2003 From: ggerhart at ATTBI.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 12:17:19 -0700 Subject: Russian WWII film list In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Jonathan, Thanks ever so for including _The Russian Context_ in your list of references on Russian WWII movies. That chapter on entertainment was actually written by Ludmila Pruner, and though I would like to be associated with the book, in fact I was an editor, along with Eloise Boyle. Genevra Gerhart http://www.GenevraGerhart.com ggerhart at attbi.com (206) 329-0053 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ilv1+ at PITT.EDU Wed May 28 20:40:04 2003 From: ilv1+ at PITT.EDU (ILYA VINITSKY) Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:40:04 -0400 Subject: Vasilii Kariotskii In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030527145556.011f1638@beloit.edu> Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Does anyone know if there is an English translation of an anonymous "Gishtoriia o rossiiskom matrose Vasilii Kariostkom i o prekrasnoi korolevne Iraklii Florenskoi zemli"? If you can help, please reply to me off-line. Thanks ahead of time. Ilya Vinitsky ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eblake1 at MEMPHIS.EDU Thu May 29 00:12:37 2003 From: eblake1 at MEMPHIS.EDU (Elizabeth Blake) Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 20:12:37 -0400 Subject: Russian Position at U of Memphis Message-ID: Dear all, I wanted to express my appreciation for the letters of support for the Russian program sent to The University of Memphis. When I met with the provost, it was clear that the external support for Russian at The University of Memphis surprised him, so I feel that the letters are making an impression on the administrators involved in the decision-making process. Please keep the letters coming!!! The provost informed me that their decisions regarding the termination of their tenure-track faculty have not yet been finalized, but I understand from a colleague that this will happen soon. These letters are already having an impact and may change their decision about the importance of Russian for the University. Elizabeth Blake University of Memphis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kalbouss at MAC.COM Thu May 29 00:20:38 2003 From: kalbouss at MAC.COM (George Kalbouss) Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 20:20:38 -0400 Subject: Russian Position at U of Memphis In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Betsy, All I can say is wow! My fingers are crossed! If you want to plan a trade conference in the next year to help buttress support, count me in with the planning. George ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From arlene.forman at OBERLIN.EDU Thu May 29 13:14:22 2003 From: arlene.forman at OBERLIN.EDU (Arlene Forman) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 09:14:22 -0400 Subject: Image Database Message-ID: On behalf of the Managing Board of The REALIA Project, I am soliciting reactions to an image database that we are developing. The REALIA* prototype is on-line at www.realiaproject.org. At this stage of the project we have developed the initial interface design and functionality and would greatly appreciate your feedback on our survey regarding the usefulness of the design, search tools, and descriptive standards. (Searching in Cyrillic should be available in the next iteration). *(Rich Electronic Archive For Language Instruction Anywhere) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From knizhny7 at YAHOO.COM Thu May 29 14:06:01 2003 From: knizhny7 at YAHOO.COM (knizhny7) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 07:06:01 -0700 Subject: USSR and USA journals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I am looking for information on two journal publications, The Soviet Union and The United States, published during the Cold War as a way for each country to present whatever information it wished to the inhabitants of the other country. I have been unable to locate any descriptions of the journals, such as when and for how long they were published, whether they were widely read, and what the current perception is of the journals and their articles. If you have any information or know of on-line resources, I�d be grateful for your suggestions. Thanks in advance, Kirstin Bebell __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Thu May 29 15:15:39 2003 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 11:15:39 EDT Subject: Prechristian Czech religion Message-ID: Could anyone suggest some good Web resources (or written) for prechristian religion(s) in what is now the Czech Republic and Slovakia? What about Radegast? About the temple to "Krasnapani" which supposedly was located under what is now the largest, highest church in Brno--Svatech Petra a Pavla? Leslie Farmer ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at ATTBI.COM Thu May 29 16:41:53 2003 From: ggerhart at ATTBI.COM (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 09:41:53 -0700 Subject: USSR and USA journals In-Reply-To: <20030529140601.26890.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You have the wrong titles. Earlier, one title was Soviet Life, later converted to Russian Life and now ably and interestingly produced in the US by Paul Richardson. The Russian (or Soviet) magazine about us was called Amerika. Try searching with those titles. Genevra Gerhart http://www.GenevraGerhart.com ggerhart at attbi.com (206) 329-0053 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Thu May 29 16:58:33 2003 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 12:58:33 -0400 Subject: USSR and USA journals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As my memory can still serve me, America was a USIA publication in Russian for Russians. By the way, I am curious whether it is still published (I would assume so). Anybody knows? Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Thu, 29 May 2003, Genevra Gerhart wrote: > You have the wrong titles. Earlier, one title was Soviet Life, later > converted to Russian Life and now ably and interestingly produced in the US > by Paul Richardson. The Russian (or Soviet) magazine about us was called > Amerika. Try searching with those titles. > > Genevra Gerhart > > http://www.GenevraGerhart.com > > ggerhart at attbi.com > (206) 329-0053 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From e.gapova at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Thu May 29 17:28:15 2003 From: e.gapova at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Elena Gapova) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 13:28:15 -0400 Subject: USSR and USA journals Message-ID: I am almost sure that the Russian language publication was called "Sovetskij Soyuz" (was this the English language "Soviet Life"?). And there was "Sovetskaya zhenshchina", too. Elena Gapova Also, there was a British publication called "Anglia", most probably published by the British Council and much easier available than "America". ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Vbelyanin at MTU.RU Thu May 29 20:03:45 2003 From: Vbelyanin at MTU.RU (Valery Belyanin) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:03:45 -0400 Subject: USSR and USA journals In-Reply-To: <20030529140601.26890.qmail@web40902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers Thursday, May 29, 2003, 10:06:01 AM, you wrote: k> Dear colleagues, k> I am looking for information on two journal k> publications, The Soviet Union and The United States, k> Kirstin Bebell "Sovetskij Sojuz" (Soviet Union - in English) was of A4 format like 32 pages with rather "sweet" articles about Soviet life and a picture (_reprodukcija_) inside. It was obligatory to sign for it for those who worked abroad. The pictures could be put on the walls. It was not very well known inside the country. Another magazine was "Sputnik". It was really very good. It was also for export, but very vivid and not too flat (resembles by format "Reader's digest" if one fills it with politics). Published by the govt of US the magazine "America" (50 kopeek almost A4 12 times a year) and by Gr.Britain "Anglia" (40 kopeek - 1/2 A4 6 times a year) were allowed for subscription among _nomenklatura_. Anglia was less filled with propaganda... Years ago I had almost full collection of "Amerika" and "Anglia" at my dacha... Best regards, Valery Belyanin Editor of www.textology.ru ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From condee at PITT.EDU Thu May 29 20:19:28 2003 From: condee at PITT.EDU (Nancy Condee) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:19:28 -0400 Subject: USSR and USA journals In-Reply-To: <25264657246.20030529160345@sonicwebmail.com> Message-ID: I believe (correct me if I am wrong here) that the protocol between USIA and its Soviet partner stipulated that neither journal would circulate within its own country--i.e., no _Amerika_ in the US and no _Soviet Life_ in the USSR. -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Valery Belyanin Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 4:04 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] USSR and USA journals Dear SEELANGers Thursday, May 29, 2003, 10:06:01 AM, you wrote: k> Dear colleagues, k> I am looking for information on two journal k> publications, The Soviet Union and The United States, k> Kirstin Bebell "Sovetskij Sojuz" (Soviet Union - in English) was of A4 format like 32 pages with rather "sweet" articles about Soviet life and a picture (_reprodukcija_) inside. It was obligatory to sign for it for those who worked abroad. The pictures could be put on the walls. It was not very well known inside the country. Another magazine was "Sputnik". It was really very good. It was also for export, but very vivid and not too flat (resembles by format "Reader's digest" if one fills it with politics). Published by the govt of US the magazine "America" (50 kopeek almost A4 12 times a year) and by Gr.Britain "Anglia" (40 kopeek - 1/2 A4 6 times a year) were allowed for subscription among _nomenklatura_. Anglia was less filled with propaganda... Years ago I had almost full collection of "Amerika" and "Anglia" at my dacha... Best regards, Valery Belyanin Editor of www.textology.ru ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brifkin at WISC.EDU Thu May 29 22:05:58 2003 From: brifkin at WISC.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:05:58 -0500 Subject: drug slang term Message-ID: Dear Colleagues: Can anyone tell me (I don't have these kinds of dictionaries ...) what the current slang word of choice would be for the term "Pusher" (in the sense of a pusher of drugs). Thanks for your help. - Ben Rifkin -- ================= Benjamin Rifkin Professor of Slavic Languages, Slavic Dept., UW-Madison 1432 Van Hise Hall, 1220 Linden Dr. Madison, WI 53706 USA voice: 608/262-1623; fax: 608/265-2814 http://polyglot.lss.wisc.edu/slavic/rifkin/ Director of the Russian School Middlebury College, Middlebury, VT 05753 voice: 802/443-5533; fax: 802/443-5394 http://www.middlebury.edu/~ls/russian/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rusinko at UMBC.EDU Thu May 29 23:00:42 2003 From: rusinko at UMBC.EDU (Elaine Rusinko) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 19:00:42 -0400 Subject: USSR and USA journals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 04:19 PM 5/29/2003 -0400, you wrote: >I believe (correct me if I am wrong here) that the protocol between USIA and >its Soviet partner stipulated that neither journal would circulate within >its own country--i.e., no _Amerika_ in the US and no _Soviet Life_ in the >USSR. > >Actually it was US legislation that prohibited USIA from distributing any >of its materials, not just AMERIKA, within the country. The idea was that >the agency should not be used by the party in power for domestic political >purposes. I believe a US-Soviet protocol demanded that there had to be an >equal number of copies of the magazines exchanged. USIA could sell or >distribute only as many copies of AMERIKA in the USSR as the Soviets could >sell SOVIET LIFE here. Of course, SOVIET LIFE was never as popular in the >US as AMERIKA was in the USSR in the era when any western publications >were prized possessions. In fact, I heard that the Soviets used to return >issues of AMERIKA to USIA as unsold and unwanted. When I was a guide on a >USIA exhibit in the 70s, we used to hand out those "rejects" free to >clamoring crouds of exhibit visitors. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at COMCAST.NET Thu May 29 23:39:47 2003 From: asred at COMCAST.NET (Steve Marder) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 19:39:47 -0400 Subject: drug slang term In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Dear Colleagues: > > Can anyone tell me (I don't have these kinds of dictionaries ...) > what the current slang word of choice would be for the term "Pusher" > (in the sense of a pusher of drugs). Thanks for your help. I cannot pass myself off as an expert on the subject, but I would say pride of place should probably go to "pusher" (stress on the first syllable), although there are many, many synonyms and regional variants; the drug slang of Moscow is not necessarily the drug slang of Obninsk, Irkutsk, Aktyubinsk, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM Thu May 29 23:58:31 2003 From: tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM (Timothy D. Sergay) Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 19:58:31 -0400 Subject: drug slang term Message-ID: > > Can anyone tell me (I don't have these kinds of dictionaries ...) > > what the current slang word of choice would be for the term "Pusher" > > (in the sense of a pusher of drugs). > I cannot pass myself off as an expert on the subject, but I would say pride > of place should probably go to "pusher" (stress on the first syllable), There are more slang terms for "pusher," showing some differentiation by variety of drug. Baryga, brakhman, gonets and others. They're defined in a neat on-line glossary of Russian drug slang at http://www.narkotiki.ru/iftrouble_5392.html Try the find feature (Ctrl, F) and search the whole page for "torgovets". ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From peitlova at TISCALINET.IT Fri May 30 08:37:29 2003 From: peitlova at TISCALINET.IT (Edil Legno) Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:37:29 +0200 Subject: Re.Slav.religion Message-ID: I've found a site: www.cernunn.zde.cz - if You can speak czech You'll find something to begin with. Best wishes. Katarìna Peitlovà,Ph.Dr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From peitlova at TISCALINET.IT Fri May 30 09:01:30 2003 From: peitlova at TISCALINET.IT (Edil Legno) Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:01:30 +0200 Subject: slav.religion Message-ID: www.mladezsns.sk Slovanska mytologia Katarina ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From BERRYMJZ at SSC1.BHAM.AC.UK Fri May 30 10:45:02 2003 From: BERRYMJZ at SSC1.BHAM.AC.UK (MJ Berry) Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:45:02 +0100 Subject: (Fwd) Re: (Fwd) Re: [SEELANGS] drug slang term Message-ID: I consulted our local drug expert (Erica Richardson) and she commented as follows: 'Pusher' or indeed 'diler' [i.e. 'dealer'] are reasonable options, but these are not terms I've often heard drug users themselves use. A quick glance through my materials suggests the more common parlance 'baryga' or just plain 'torgovets'. However, if you want the specific word for the image of a predatory drug pusher ensnaring young innocents into a life of filth and degradation then it has to be 'narkodelets'. Mike Berry ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mike Berry Centre for Russian and Tel: 0121-414-6355 East European Studies, Fax: 0121-414-3423 University of Birmingham, email: m.j.berry.rus at bham.ac.uk Birmingham B15 2TT, UK. ***** Umom Rossiyu ne ponyat' ***** ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhunter at MONROECC.EDU Fri May 30 12:27:59 2003 From: rhunter at MONROECC.EDU (Hunter, Robert (Psychology)) Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:27:59 -0400 Subject: Alzheimer's Disease Message-ID: What is the up-to-date Russian for Alzheimer's Disease? I read that "bolezn' al'zimera" is passe but lost that source. Ogromnoe spasibo, Robert Hunter rhunter at monroecc.edu From Vbelyanin at MTU.RU Fri May 30 12:45:50 2003 From: Vbelyanin at MTU.RU (Valery Belyanin) Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 08:45:50 -0400 Subject: Alzheimer's Disease In-Reply-To: <691107475A3F5246BED9B30A701C195C062503@mcc-b131.monroecc.edu> Message-ID: Dear Robert it is болезнь АльцгЕймера = bolez'n' Al'cgEimera. Best regards, Valery Belyanin Editor of www.textology.ru Friday, May 30, 2003, 8:27:59 AM, you wrote: HRP> What is the up-to-date Russian for Alzheimer's Disease? I read that "bolezn' al'zimera" is passe but lost that source. HRP> Ogromnoe spasibo, HRP> Robert Hunter HRP> rhunter at monroecc.edu -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulr at RISPUBS.COM Fri May 30 13:46:49 2003 From: paulr at RISPUBS.COM (Paul Richardson) Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 09:46:49 -0400 Subject: SEELANGS Digest - 28 May 2003 to 29 May 2003 (#2003-20) In-Reply-To: <200305292357928.SM00708@LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU> Message-ID: Kirstin: There have been several other replies on the list about USSR, Sovietsky Soyuz, Amerika, etc. and all correct as far as I know. Briefly, our magazine was founded in 1956 as a Soviet gov't prop-organ USSR, then became Soviet Life, then Russian Life as a j.v., then in 1995, we "privatized" it, to wit Russian Life is now an American owned publication, published mainly for Americans, with a Russian editor and with content provided by an international body of freelance writers and photographers. For a bit more, see our website, specifically: http://www.rispubs.com/rlhist.cfm As to Amerika (officially Amerika Illustrated), yes, it was a USIA pub and therefore forbidden from distribution in the US. As a result, when we wanted to write an article in 1996 (in our Oct 96 issue, I belive) about the two mag's 40 year history (Amerika ceased publication in the early 90s), we had to get a special dispensation of sorts from the former editor to see a few copies, and agree to send them back after we were done ... Some people, funded by Konstantin Borovoi, tried to restart Amerika a couple of years back, but last I heard it had foundered and stopped publication. Paul Richardson Publisher Russian Life > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 07:06:01 -0700 > From: knizhny7 > Subject: USSR and USA journals > > Dear colleagues, > > I am looking for information on two journal > publications, The Soviet Union and The United States, > published during the Cold War as a way for each > country to present whatever information it wished to > the inhabitants of the other country. > > I have been unable to locate any descriptions of the > journals, such as when and for how long they were > published, whether they were widely read, and what the > current perception is of the journals and their > articles. > > If you have any information or know of on-line > resources, I’d be grateful for your suggestions. > > Thanks in advance, > > Kirstin Bebell > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Zemedelec at AOL.COM Fri May 30 14:11:13 2003 From: Zemedelec at AOL.COM (Leslie Farmer) Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:11:13 EDT Subject: Re.Slav.religion Message-ID: In a message dated 5/30/03 3:48:01 AM, peitlova at TISCALINET.IT writes: > I've found  a site: www.cernunn.zde.cz - if You can speak Czech You'll find > something to begin with. > Best wishes. > Katarìna Peitlovà,Ph.Dr. > > Dekuju. Ctu, lepe nez mluvim cesky. Uvidim adresu. Leslie ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mp at MIPCO.COM Fri May 30 23:05:53 2003 From: mp at MIPCO.COM (Michael Peltsman) Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 18:05:53 -0500 Subject: Armalinsky's Einstein Message-ID: As usually extravagant Armalinsky's views on Albert Einstein's sex life and the theory of relativity interpretation at http://www.mipco.com/win/GEr95.html Alexander Sokolov http://www.mipco.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU Fri May 30 23:17:28 2003 From: greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Svetlana Grenier) Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:17:28 -0400 Subject: Polish language textbooks; East and Central European Literature Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, Last year people helped me out a great deal when I was trying to choose a textbook for first-year Polish. Many, many thanks to all who sent their advice!! To report on the results: I picked Uczmy sie polskiego (Miodunka's video course), and the video part was useful; however, I had to supplement it a lot, and in the end am not sure it was worth it. Mind you, I had been forewarned that this would probably happen, but I heedlessly forged ahead. In retrospect, I think that Czesc, jak sie masz? would have been a better choice! Now I have another question: what would you recommend for the second year? (after the non-intensive first: we covered all cases except the vocative and all tenses in the indicative, but this all would need to be reviewed!) Is there a book that would have, among other things, grammar charts? I would be very thankful for any reflections on your experience with the books you have used! My second question/appeal is: has anyone here taught a course on the literature of East and Central Europe, and would you be willing to share your syllabi or give any suggestions on the works to be included in such a general course? I would be very much obliged!! Sincerely, Svetlana Grenier ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From peitlova at TISCALINET.IT Sat May 31 07:28:11 2003 From: peitlova at TISCALINET.IT (Edil Legno) Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 09:28:11 +0200 Subject: Slav.mythology Message-ID: I've found another site: www.bohovedavnychslovanu.cz. Best wishes Katarina ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From flier at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sat May 31 17:20:15 2003 From: flier at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Michael S. Flier) Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 13:20:15 -0400 Subject: Harvard University: Polish Literature and Language Message-ID: May 2003 Harvard University: Polish Literature & Language The Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures at Harvard University seeks to make an appointment (rank open) in Polish literature and language, effective July 1, 2004. The position may be filled at the senior level (tenured full professorship) or the junior level (assistant professor or untenured associate professor). If at the junior level, the appointment would typically be for an initial five-year term, with the possibility of promotion to tenure. Candidates may specialize in any area of Polish literature and culture, including prose, poetry, film, theory, the performing arts, and visual culture. Interdisciplinary interests in such fields as Central and East European Studies (including knowledge of another Slavic language and literature), Jewish Studies, Comparative Literature, Folklore and Mythology, Art History, and Women's Studies will be valued. The teaching load is four courses per year and tutorial work. Ph.D. (or foreign equivalent) expected by the time of appointment and native or near-native Polish and English are required. Applications are welcomed from scholars at all levels who have demonstrated a commitment to both publishing and teaching in the field of Polish studies. Applicants are requested to send a letter detailing research and teaching interests, a curriculum vitae, and a short writing sample. Three confidential letters of recommendation should be sent as well. All materials should be mailed by 14 November 2003 to: Prof. Stephanie Sandler, Chair Polish Search Committee Dept. of Slavic Languages and Literatures Harvard University Barker Center, 12 Quincy St. Cambridge, MA 02138 Harvard is an AA/EEO employer. Applications from women and minorities are strongly encouraged. ****************************************************************************** PROF. MICHAEL S. FLIER, Chair Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures Harvard University Barker Center, 12 Quincy Street Cambridge, MA 02138 : : : : : : : : TEL. (617) 495-4065 [Slavic Department] TEL. (617) 495-4054 [Linguistics Department] TEL. (617) 495-7833 [Ukrainian Research Institute] FAX (617) 864-2167 [private] WEB http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~slavic/faculty/michael_flier.html ****************************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://home.attbi.com/~lists/seelangs/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------