V Sibiri and V Krimu

[pjs]

This is very interesting! Thanks!

Peter Scotto

On Tue, 21 Dec 2004, Martin Votruba wrote:

> Date: Tue, 21 Dec 2004 11:52:39 -0500
> From: Martin Votruba <votruba+ at PITT.EDU>
> Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list
>     <SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU>
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] V Sibiri and V Krimu
>
> > regional "na Donu", "na Urale"
>
> These can be explained by the origin of the headwords in the meaning
> of "river" and "mountains": if the headword has that origin, the
> preposition is _na_; if it doesn't, the preposition is _v_.
>
> When a derived place-name is used, the preposition becomes _v_, e.g.
> _v_ Povolzje (not _na_), although it has been derived from the name
> of a river; also _v_ Donbasse, etc.
>
> The same applies when a specific word for "region" is used: the
> preposition is _v_: _v_ Moskovskoj oblasti (not _na_), "v uralskoj
> oblasti," should anyone choose to say that, etc.
>
> We'd have to find a sufficient number of a variety of place-names
> used with _na_ to be able to say that Russian distinguishes between
> _na_ = "region" and _v_ = "country."
>
>
> A historical perspective suggests, too, that _na_ is limited,
> regional, or has become obsolete; that modern, productive Russian
> usage is _v_ for any country/region:
>      While it is _na_ Ukraine, _na_ Rusi, it is _v_ nezavisimoj
> Ukraine, _v_ sovetskoj Ukraine, _v_ Zakarpatskoj Ukraine (but na
> pravobereznoj Ukraine); _v_ Podkarpatskoj Rusi, _v_ Kijevskoj Rusi
> (but na svjatoj Rusi).
>
> That is to say, _v_ occurs even with Ukraine and Rus' as headwords in
> contemporary Russian.
>
> The Polish (and older West Slavic) use of _na Wegrzech_ usefully
> quoted by Joe Phillips can be rendered with _v_ in Russian, too.  It
> stems from the plurals of ethnic names, originally "on the
> Hungarians' [lands]".  In Russian, a historical trade route went _iz
> varjag v greki_ (not _na greki_).
>
>
> There is no overriding pattern in the use of prepositions in
> contemporary Russian that would separate countries as political
> entities from regions.
>      The most we can say is that _v_ does not occur with countries
> (except na Kube, na Madagaskare, but here the meaning of "island"
> kicks in, although it doesn't with some other country-islands,
> probably due to the suffix: v Islandii, v Novoj Zelandii), and that
> _na_ hardly ever occurs without additional motivation (like "compass
> point," "peninsula," "river," "mountain range," -scina, etc.) with
> regions.
>
> All of that adds support to John Dunn's suggestion that _na Ukraine_
> may be a Polish, or more generally West Slavic/western-regional
> feature, which was picked up in Russian with the place-name
> _Ukraina_.  Which, in turn, might support the etymology explaining it
> not from the Russian "u + kraja," but from the local Ukrainian
> [wkraina] "[this] land, country."
>
>
> Martin
>
> votruba "at" pitt "edu
>
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