[Fwd: [mova] Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. & English-speaking prisoners]]

[Max Pyziur]

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: [mova] Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. & English-speaking prisoners] From:
   "Victor Shevchenko" <vic_shevchenko at yahoo.ca>
Date:    Sun, July 17, 2005 7:08 pm
To:      "Max Pyziur" <pyz at brama.com>
         mova at brama.com
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Tim, I agree with a "toss" option. "Shmon" in Ukrainian doesn't have a
"brutal" meaning. Rather it's a criminal slang (with a somewhat disdainful
hue) for "search". And, as you pointed out, it doesn't relate to a search
of a human being only, but it can also refer to the prison cell "shmon",
army barracks shmon etc. Sometimes it is used to describe an attempt to
clean and organize things up in a teenager's room, the home of a man left
unattended by his significant other's absence on a business trip for more
than three days etc ... :-)



"Shmonaye" is just a verb form of "shmon", thus "to toss" can be used.



As for "parasha"... well, it ain't nice ...:-) "shit bucket" is very close
but I guess somebody who is familiar with a living English criminal slang
could offer a better word, ditto for "shmon". The thing is these are
cultural rather than linguistic translations and should be approached
accordingly.



Cheers,



Victor Shevchenko

Max Pyziur <pyz at brama.com> wrote:
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. & English-speaking prisoners
From: "Timothy D. Sergay"
Date: Thu, July 14, 2005 4:43 pm
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU
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Dear Natalya:

You're very welcome. Merriam Webster's dictionary has for "frisk"
(transitive verb): "to search (a person) for something (as a concealed 
weapon) by running the hand rapidly over the clothing and through the 
pockets." "Frisk" is definitely not your word: it's not brutal, and is
close to "pat down." The closest English term for *shmon* in your sense is
almost certainly "strip search" (also a transitive verb: to strip search a
prisoner); to make its brutal, physical nature clear in English you would
also precede the nominal term with some adjective(s) like "invasive" (36
google hits) "brutal" (12 hits), "humiliating" (443 hits).

Tim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chandler"
To:
Sent: Thursday, July 14, 2005 4:38 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Transl. & English-speaking prisoners


> Dear Natalya,
>
>> -- Concerning *shmon* / *shmonaie*: I wonder whether English-
speaking prisoners
>> would say *frisk* - *the sargent frisks* when referring to a rather
brutal
>> search of the person?
> To my English (rather than American) ear, 'frisk' definitely does not
sound
> brutal.
>
> Robert
>
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Max Pyziur BRAMA - Gateway Ukraine
pyz at brama.com http://www.brama.com/
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