From anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU Sat Apr 1 02:07:33 2006 From: anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU (Anne L Lounsbery) Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 21:07:33 -0500 Subject: tomorrow's Mid-Atlantic Slavic Conf. schedule please? In-Reply-To: <442D4D0D.2010607@columbia.edu> Message-ID: I would very much appreciate it if someone could send me the SCHEDULE for tomorrow's Mid-Atlantic Slavic Conference in New York City at the Lincoln Center campus (Saturday, April 1, 2006). Thank you. Anne Lounsbery Assistant Professor Department of Russian and Slavic Studies New York University 19 University Place, 2nd Floor New York, NY 10003 (212) 998-8674 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Sat Apr 1 10:22:46 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 05:22:46 -0500 Subject: Onegin again - all dressed up Message-ID: So we know that Onegin was a narcissistic dandy, but that does not mean 'gay' or 'queer' - rather it shows an all consuming self-love of a bored young man. This personality trait of exaggerated vanity is patently manifest in today's women of the consumer society.... but narcissism, dandyism, vanity, flaunting self-love still does not equate with homosexuality, but could be contributing factors. There are many parallels in history where men displayed themselves in all their splendour like strutting peacocks, here a man's finery outshone a woman's, so we must not judge Onegin by today's standards, as our own reality which did not apply to his era. Our world view would have been alien to him. A historian of the fashion industry would be the right person to comment further on the male desire to outshine all competitors throughout the ages. Vera Beljakova Original Message: ----------------- From: Daniel Rancour-Laferriere darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 15:13:02 -0800 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Onegin again 31 March 2006 Rebecca Jane Stanton states: > > I note, certainly not by way of reproof but for anyone on the list to > whom it may be useful information, that "homosexuality" and "gayness" > are not interchangeable as critical terms; "gayness" encodes a > political identity generally thought of as available only after the > 1969 Stonewall riots. So technically neither Pushkin's Onegin nor > Tchaikovsky's can be "gay," though either or both could be homosexual > (and I suppose a modern-dress production of Onegin could present him > as being both). My Webster's Dictionary (2004 edition) gives the relevant definitions of the adjective "gay" as "homosexual" and "of, relating to, or used by homosexuals." The derived noun is "gayness," and the other noun, "gay" is defined as "homosexual" and "a homosexual male." So, no mention of the Stonewall riots. Besides, how could Oscar Wilde have known of those riots? Or Lord Byron? Or Verlaine? Or Gogol'? Or Leonardo da Vinci? Or the ancient Greek _erastes_ with his _eromenos_? Or the guys who live in politically organized "men's houses" in a variety of nonindustrial societies such as the Batak of Sumatra, the Keraki of New Guinea, and so on? These people all SHARE an important human feature. To say that "gayness" only encodes a recently established political identity is arbitrarily to EXCLUDE those who are either unable or are not particularly interested in buying into that identity, be they heterosexual or homosexual in their orientation, their fantasy life, or their behavior. Let the gay community beware of identifying with its homophobic, exclusionary aggressors. Let Onegin be latently gay/homosexual for Freudian analysis as well as for queer studies. And as for those who see only a cultural, non-sexual construct in the words - ïÎ ÔÒÉ ÞÁÓÁ, ÐÏ ËÒÁÊÎÅÊ ÍÅÒÅ, ðÒÅÄ ÚÅÒËÁÌÁÍÉ ÐÒÏ×ÏÄÉÌ é ÉÚ ÕÂÏÒÎÏÊ ×ÙÈÏÄÉÌ ðÏÄÏÂÎÙÊ ×ÅÔÒÅÎÏÊ ÷ÅÎÅÒÅ, ëÏÇÄÁ, ÎÁÄÅ× ÍÕÖÓËÏÊ ÎÁÒÑÄ, âÏÇÉÎÑ ÅÄÅÔ × ÍÁÓËÁÒÁÄ. - that is fine too, for purely literary-cultural studies of the transvestite manifestations of Dandyism reveal much that is interesting. But for the one who PROTESTS TOO MUCH against the idea of Onegin's underlying gayness/homosexuality, I say, again with Pushkin: é ÎÅ ÏÓÐÏÒÉ×ÁÊ ÇÌÕÐÃÁ. Regards to the list, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From padunov+ at PITT.EDU Sat Apr 1 13:03:56 2006 From: padunov+ at PITT.EDU (Vladimir Padunov) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 08:03:56 -0500 Subject: KINOKULTURA 12 (April 2006) Message-ID: The April issue of Kinokultura (#12) is now available on line. www.kinokultura.com This issue features festival reports and articles based on a roundtable at AAASS in 2005, as well as film reviews. This issue's video has been awarded two top awards at recent festivals! Contents: Bauyrzhan Nogerbek: "The Eurasia-2005 Film Festival: Ambitions and Realities" Vladimir Padunov: Storing and Restoring History: Gosfil'mofond and the 10th Belye Stolby Archival Film Festival Thomas Campbell: Five Theses About Timur Bekmambetov's Day Watch Russian TV-Serials: AAASS Roundtable 2005: "Russian TV: Past Issues of Present Concern" Birgit Beumers: "The Serialization of the War" David MacFadyen: "The Significance of Brezhnev for Russian TV Drama Today" Alexander Prokhorov: "Size Matters: The Ideological Functions of the Length of Soviet Feature Films and Television Mini-Series in the 1950s and 1960s" Film Reviews: Tony Anemone on Aleksei German Jr.'s Garpastum Anindita Banerjee on Pavel Ruminov's Silent Man Eva Binder on Aleksandr Strizhanov's 180 and Taller Stephen Hutchings on Valerii Akhadov's Greenhouse Effect David MacFadyen on Zul'fikar Musakov's Boys in the Sky 2 Natalya Rulyova on Elena Nikolaeva's Pops Dawn Seckler on Fedor Bondarchuk's Company 9 Christina Stojanova on Oleg Stepchenko's Velvet Revolution Denise Youngblood on Aleksei Karelin's A Time to Gather Stones Video: Anastasiia Zhuravleva: Caution, the Doors Are Opening! ...And finally we are happy to announce that KinoKultura received a Special Diploma from the Guild of Russian Film Scholars and Critics!!! Thank you all! Birgit Beumers and Vladimir Padunov _________________________________________ Vladimir Padunov Associate Director, Film Studies Program Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures 1433 Cathedral of Learning voice: 1-412-624-5713 University of Pittsburgh FAX: 1-412-624-9714 Pittsburgh, PA 15260 padunov at pitt.edu Russian Film Symposium http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Sat Apr 1 15:21:19 2006 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:21:19 -0500 Subject: Was Onegin a metrosexual? Message-ID: >From Wiktionary: Metrosexual, n (plural metrosexuals) 1. A man concerned with self-image, self-indulgence and money.(Usually urban, heterosexual, probably affluent). 2. A man who is seen, sociologically, as having attributes common to homosexuals, but is in fact heterosexual. Synonyms * dandy - (19th Century ?) * dude , dood * fop - (19th Century ?) * masher * nancy boy, nancy Mark Simpson's definition: "The typical metrosexual is a young man with money to spend, living in or within easy reach of a metropolis -- because that's where all the best shops, clubs, gyms and hairdressers are. He might be officially gay, straight or bisexual, but this is utterly immaterial because he has clearly taken himself as his own love object and pleasure as his sexual preference." See also Mark Simpson, "Here come the mirror men." The Independent, November 15, 1994 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From padunov+ at PITT.EDU Sat Apr 1 15:50:43 2006 From: padunov+ at PITT.EDU (Vladimir Padunov) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 10:50:43 -0500 Subject: Russian Film Symposium 2006 Message-ID: Russian Film Symposium 2006: White Russian--Black Russian: Race and Ethnicity in Russian Cinema http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu What is race? What is ethnicity? How was that line drawn differently under the 74 years of socialism and what are its consequences for present-day Russia? The impulse for this year’s symposium, White Russian--Black Russian: Race and Ethnicity in Russian Cinema, is the explosion of racial and ethnic conflict in the Russian Federation since the Soviet collapse in 1991. Western media have so far concentrated on three aspects of this violence: the second Chechen war in the Caucasus; skinhead attacks on foreign tourists in St. Petersburg; and the growth of anti-Semitism, especially in Moscow. The violence, however, is much more extensive and pervasive, extending to the murders of foreign students from South America in Voronezh and Rostov; the arson in the Moscow dormitory for African students; the constant “document checks” of swarthy people conducted by the police in all Russian cities; the campaign by the mass media in Russia (now firmly back under state control) to characterize all Chechens as terrorists, etc. As much as the first post-Soviet decade can be characterized as a war by organized crime against emerging civil society, this second decade is marked by the state’s (both open and concealed) war against ethnic and racial minorities. Not surprisingly, these conflicts have dominated Russian cultural production as well. Earlier symposia, such as Arrogance & Envy (2003), examined narrative and visual conflict in the cinematic strategies of Russo-Soviet cultural producers (from Stalin’s era through Putin’s), vilifying Americans as the enemy, as “the other-out-there.” This practice, however, was always accompanied by the vilification of “the other-in-here,” although the identity of this internal “other” shifted at historical moments: nobility and bourgeoisie (under Lenin); kulaks, NEP-men, saboteurs, “enemies of the people,” and suspect ethnic minorities (under Stalin); closet “Stalinists,” usually Georgians (under Khrushchev); Chechens (under El'tsin and Putin). With the exception of the conditions of the Civil War (1918-21), the “other-in-here” has been marked as non-Russian--whether the non-Russian who is nationalist (Ukrainian, Transcaucasian, Balt, Central Asian, etc.) or the non-Russian who is biologically inferior (Gypsies, Ingush, Chukcha, Dagestanis, Kalmyks, Chechens, etc.). Indeed, many of these groups are often referred to casually as “chernye zhopy” in Russian everyday speech, an obscene term best translated into Victorian English as “black behinds,” analogous to the infamous “n-word” in English. White Russian--Black Russian: Race and Ethnicity in Russian Cinema examines this phenomenon in two fora: public screenings at the Melwood Screening Room of Pittsburgh Filmmakers, accompanied by brief introductions and public discussion; and a scholarly component at the University of Pittsburgh, consisting of research presentations, screenings, and debate. This year’s films will provide a survey of representational strategies in depicting ethnic and racial minorities in Soviet and Russian cinema, from the silent era--Vsevolod Pudovkin’s Heir of Ghengis Khan (1928) and Aleksandr Zarkhi’s and Iosif Kheifits’ My Motherland (1933)--through the Stalinist years--Mikhail Dubson’s The Border (1935), Grigorii Aleksandrov’s Circus (1936), and Vladimir Korsh-Sablin’s Seekers of Happiness (1936)--the Stagnation era and perestroika--Edmond Keosaian’s The Elusive Avengers (1966), Emil' Lotianu’s The Gypsy Camp Rolls into the Sky (1976), Aleksandr Mitta’s The Tale of How Tsar Peter Married off his Negro (1976), Aleksandr Askol'dov’s Commissar (1967; released 1987), Nikita Mikhalkov’s Close to Eden (1991)--to the present?Aleksei Balabanov’s Dead Man’s Bluff (2005), Pavel Lungin’s roots (2005), and Larisa Sadilova’s Needing a Nanny (2005). The Russian Film Symposium is supported by the University of Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh Filmmakers, and the A. W. Mellon Educational and Charitable Trust Fund of The Pittsburgh Foundation. _________________________________________ Vladimir Padunov Associate Director, Film Studies Program Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures 1433 Cathedral of Learning voice: 1-412-624-5713 University of Pittsburgh FAX: 1-412-624-9714 Pittsburgh, PA 15260 padunov at pitt.edu Russian Film Symposium http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU Sat Apr 1 17:01:04 2006 From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 12:01:04 -0500 Subject: Onegin again In-Reply-To: <442DB77E.2000906@comcast.net> Message-ID: Well, thank Venus we have Webster's Dictionary. Now we can discard all that messy and contentious sexuality scholarship, with all its inconvenient distinctions and differing viewpoints. And I wonder which is more reductive of sexual identities, to distinguish among various cultural, behavioral and psychological paradigms, or to conflate every set of synonyms and near synonyms on the basis of a dictionary designed for general use. To then cast this conflation in terms of political correctness, attacking those who don't buy into this facile maneuver as "homophobic, exclusionary aggressors" is a self-serving and despicable perversion of liberalism. If any term currently in play now seems more capacious than it did yesterday, it is "glupets." David David Powelstock Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures Chair, Program in Russian & East European Studies Brandeis University GREA, MS 024 Waltham, MA 02454-9110 781.736.3347 (Office) > -----Original Message----- > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > [mailto:SEELANGS at listserv.cuny.edu] On Behalf Of Daniel Rancour-Laferriere > Sent: Friday, March 31, 2006 6:13 PM > To: SEELANGS at listserv.cuny.edu > Subject: [SEELANGS] Onegin again > > 31 March 2006 > > Rebecca Jane Stanton states: > > > > > I note, certainly not by way of reproof but for anyone on the list to > > whom it may be useful information, that "homosexuality" and "gayness" > > are not interchangeable as critical terms; "gayness" encodes a > > political identity generally thought of as available only after the > > 1969 Stonewall riots. So technically neither Pushkin's Onegin nor > > Tchaikovsky's can be "gay," though either or both could be homosexual > > (and I suppose a modern-dress production of Onegin could present him > > as being both). > > > My Webster's Dictionary (2004 edition) gives the relevant definitions of > the adjective "gay" as "homosexual" and "of, relating to, or used by > homosexuals." The derived noun is "gayness," and the other noun, "gay" > is defined as "homosexual" and "a homosexual male." So, no mention of > the Stonewall riots. Besides, how could Oscar Wilde have known of those > riots? Or Lord Byron? Or Verlaine? Or Gogol'? Or Leonardo da Vinci? > Or the ancient Greek _erastes_ with his _eromenos_? Or the guys who > live in politically organized "men's houses" in a variety of > nonindustrial societies such as the Batak of Sumatra, the Keraki of New > Guinea, and so on? > > These people all SHARE an important human feature. > > To say that "gayness" only encodes a recently established political > identity is arbitrarily to EXCLUDE those who are either unable or are > not particularly interested in buying into that identity, be they > heterosexual or homosexual in their orientation, their fantasy life, or > their behavior. Let the gay community beware of identifying with its > homophobic, exclusionary aggressors. Let Onegin be latently > gay/homosexual for Freudian analysis as well as for queer studies. And > as for those who see only a cultural, non-sexual construct in the words - > > Он три часа, по крайней мере, > Пред зеркалами проводил > И из уборной выходил > Подобный ветреной Венере, > Когда, надев мужской наряд, > Богиня едет в маскарад. > > - that is fine too, for purely literary-cultural studies of the > transvestite manifestations of Dandyism reveal much that is > interesting. But for the one who PROTESTS TOO MUCH against the idea of > Onegin's underlying gayness/homosexuality, I say, again with Pushkin: > > И не оспоривай глупца. > > > > > Regards to the list, > > Daniel Rancour-Laferriere > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dmg33 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Apr 1 18:18:43 2006 From: dmg33 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Douglas Greenfield) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 13:18:43 -0500 Subject: Onegin again In-Reply-To: <009b01c655ad$dd00fb10$6700a8c0@ATHLONA> Message-ID: hear, hear! The phrase "ad hominem argument" seems apt in this particular exchange. Douglas David Powelstock wrote: > Well, thank Venus we have Webster's Dictionary. Now we can discard > all that messy and contentious sexuality scholarship, with all its > inconvenient distinctions and differing viewpoints. And I wonder > which is more reductive of sexual identities, to distinguish among > various cultural, behavioral and psychological paradigms, or to > conflate every set of synonyms and near synonyms on the basis of a > dictionary designed for general use. To then cast this conflation in > terms of political correctness, attacking those who don't buy into > this facile maneuver as "homophobic, exclusionary aggressors" is a > self-serving and despicable perversion of liberalism. If any term > currently in play now seems more capacious than it did yesterday, it > is "glupets." > > David > > David Powelstock Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures > Chair, Program in Russian & East European Studies Brandeis University > GREA, MS 024 Waltham, MA 02454-9110 781.736.3347 (Office) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at SPRINT.CA Sat Apr 1 20:26:55 2006 From: colkitto at SPRINT.CA (colkitto) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:26:55 -0500 Subject: Onegin again Message-ID: > hear, hear! > > The phrase "ad hominem argument" seems apt in this particular exchange. No, it doesn't. "homo-" in "homosexual" is from Greek "homo-" (with an omega in the first syllable) "same" (cf. also Common Slavic *sam- plus all its derivatives (most people on this list could probably come up with hundreds, from any Slavic language), and not from Latin "homo" - "man" (actually "human"; ultimately cognate with Common Slavic *zem- "earth", cf. Lithuanian zmuo/zeme) In English, forms derived from Latin homo should be pronounced with a short vowel in the initial syllable, and those from Greek homo- with a long one. (This distinction has been lost in most Slavic languages, even those which preserve any sort of length). Robert Orr > David Powelstock wrote: >> Well, thank Venus we have Webster's Dictionary. Now we can discard >> all that messy and contentious sexuality scholarship, with all its >> inconvenient distinctions and differing viewpoints. And I wonder >> which is more reductive of sexual identities, to distinguish among >> various cultural, behavioral and psychological paradigms, or to >> conflate every set of synonyms and near synonyms on the basis of a >> dictionary designed for general use. To then cast this conflation in >> terms of political correctness, attacking those who don't buy into >> this facile maneuver as "homophobic, exclusionary aggressors" is a >> self-serving and despicable perversion of liberalism. If any term >> currently in play now seems more capacious than it did yesterday, it >> is "glupets." >> >> David >> >> David Powelstock Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures >> Chair, Program in Russian & East European Studies Brandeis University >> GREA, MS 024 Waltham, MA 02454-9110 781.736.3347 (Office) >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dmg33 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Apr 1 20:30:33 2006 From: dmg33 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Douglas Greenfield) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 15:30:33 -0500 Subject: Onegin again In-Reply-To: <001401c655ca$9ffc3aa0$8aa86395@yourg9zekrp5zf> Message-ID: homonymically, that is colkitto wrote: >> hear, hear! >> >> The phrase "ad hominem argument" seems apt in this particular exchange. > > > > No, it doesn't. "homo-" in "homosexual" is from Greek "homo-" (with an > omega in the first syllable) "same" (cf. also Common Slavic *sam- plus > all its derivatives (most people on this list could probably come up > with hundreds, from any Slavic language), and not from Latin "homo" - > "man" (actually "human"; ultimately cognate with Common Slavic *zem- > "earth", cf. Lithuanian zmuo/zeme) In English, forms derived from > Latin homo should be pronounced with a short vowel in the initial > syllable, and those from Greek homo- with a long one. (This > distinction has been lost in most Slavic languages, even those which > preserve any sort of length). > > Robert Orr > >> David Powelstock wrote: >> >>> Well, thank Venus we have Webster's Dictionary. Now we can discard >>> all that messy and contentious sexuality scholarship, with all its >>> inconvenient distinctions and differing viewpoints. And I wonder >>> which is more reductive of sexual identities, to distinguish among >>> various cultural, behavioral and psychological paradigms, or to >>> conflate every set of synonyms and near synonyms on the basis of a >>> dictionary designed for general use. To then cast this conflation in >>> terms of political correctness, attacking those who don't buy into >>> this facile maneuver as "homophobic, exclusionary aggressors" is a >>> self-serving and despicable perversion of liberalism. If any term >>> currently in play now seems more capacious than it did yesterday, it >>> is "glupets." >>> >>> David >>> >>> David Powelstock Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures >>> Chair, Program in Russian & East European Studies Brandeis University >>> GREA, MS 024 Waltham, MA 02454-9110 781.736.3347 (Office) >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Sat Apr 1 21:15:39 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 16:15:39 -0500 Subject: Onegin again In-Reply-To: <001401c655ca$9ffc3aa0$8aa86395@yourg9zekrp5zf> Message-ID: Robert Orr (colkitto) wrote: >> hear, hear! >> >> The phrase "ad hominem argument" seems apt in this particular exchange. > > No, it doesn't. "homo-" in "homosexual" is from Greek "homo-" (with an > omega in the first syllable) "same" (cf. also Common Slavic *sam- plus > all its derivatives (most people on this list could probably come up > with hundreds, from any Slavic language), and not from Latin "homo" - > "man" (actually "human"; ultimately cognate with Common Slavic *zem- > "earth", cf. Lithuanian zmuo/zeme) Fascinating. > In English, forms derived from Latin homo should be pronounced with a > short vowel in the initial syllable, and those from Greek homo- > with a long one. (This distinction has been lost in most Slavic > languages, even those which preserve any sort of length). Yeah, sure! You've got a case! No matter how right you are etymologically, English will do as it pleases. We do say [ædˈhɑmənɛm] with so-called "short o" and [ˌhoməˈfobɪk] with so-called "long o" according to your prescription, but if it were the other way around that would just be the luck of the draw. Many of our earlier long and short vowels have been reorganized, some several times along the way, for reasons that have nothing to do with their provenance. "Night" originally had a short vowel, but we lengthened it when we dropped the velar, and no army of etymologists can change that. What will you do with homonym [ˈhɑməˌnɪm]? In the same way, modern Russian /a/ doesn't necessarily -- or even usually -- represent a Common Slavic long vowel. There have been too many changes along the way. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewb2 at cornell.edu Sat Apr 1 21:45:57 2006 From: ewb2 at cornell.edu (E Wayles Browne) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 16:45:57 -0500 Subject: Onegin again (metamorphosed into: Greek) In-Reply-To: <442EED7B.4070206@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: Are you sure of your Greek there? My Greek dictionary has pages of words beginning with hom- (omicron = short vowel), meaning 'same', and no words at all beginning hwm- (omega = long vowel). -- Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics Department of Linguistics Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu > >> In English, forms derived from Latin homo should be pronounced with a >> short vowel in the initial syllable, and those from Greek homo- >> with a long one. (This distinction has been lost in most Slavic >> languages, even those which preserve any sort of length). > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET Sun Apr 2 02:17:35 2006 From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 18:17:35 -0800 Subject: Fwd: PEN News: March 2006 Message-ID: Dear SEELANGovtsy, Boris Akunin will be participating in the Pen World Voices Festival of International Literature, more information about which is available here: http://pen.org/page.php/prmID/1096 --- info at pen.org wrote: > Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:00:37 -0500 (EST) > To: lino59 at ameritech.net > Subject: PEN News: March 2006 > From: info at pen.org > --------------------------------- PEN American Center PEN MEMBERS Be sure to purchase your tickets for World Voices soon! >>More Interested in volunteering for the Festival? >>Please contact us. COMING SOON... PEN America 7: World Voices The latest edition of the PEN literary journal will be released in just a couple of weeks. This exciting new issue features Salman Rushdie, Svetlana Alexievich, Michael Ondaatje, Tsitsi Dangarembga, Zakes Mda, and the many others who participated in the inaugural year of the PEN World Voices Festival. >>Pre-order now! --------------------------------- PEN American Center 588 Broadway, Suite 303 New York, NY 10012 Tel. (212) 334-1660 Fax. (212) 334-2181 www.pen.org If you do not wish to receive e-mails from us, please click here. NEWS FROM PEN 2006 PEN World Voices: The New York Festival of International Literature We are pleased to announce this year's World Voices Festival, featuring 137 writers from 41 countries in 58 events this April in New York City. Tickets are on sale now! >>More Ron Chernow succeeds Salman Rushdie as president of PEN American Center At the March 23rd annual meeting, Ron Chernow, the best-selling biographer of J. P. Morgan, John D. Rockefeller, and Alexander Hamilton, was elected as PEN's next president. >> Read the article in The New York Times. PEN Prison Writing Program publishes new edition of The Handbook for Writers in Prison The newly updated Handbook features detailed guides on the art of writing fiction, nonfiction, poetry, and screenplays and is an invaluable resource to any incarcerated writer. >>More ANNOUNCING THE 2006 FREEDOM TO WRITE AWARDS PEN/Barbara Goldsmith Freedom to Write Awards This week, PEN named Mohammed Benchicou, an Algerian newspaper publisher already in prison and facing 50 additional sentences for his newspaper’s independent reporting, and Rakhim Esenov, a novelist, historian, and radio correspondent whose works are banned and who has been barred from traveling outside of Turkmenistan, as recipients of its 2006 PEN/Barbara Goldsmith Freedom to Write Awards. >>More PEN/Newman’s Own First Amendment Award PEN also named Sibel Edmonds, a translator who was fired from her job at the FBI after complaining of intelligence failures and poor performance in her unit, as the recipient of this year’s prestigious PEN/Newman’s Own First Amendment Award. >>More Jeri Laber International Freedom to Publish Award Egyptian publisher Mohamed Hashem, whose commitment to publishing worksof critical thinking has brought him into conflict with civil andreligious authorities, has been named by the Association of AmericanPublishers’ International Freedom to Publish (IFTP) Committee to receive this year’s Jeri Laber Award. >>More INTERNATIONAL NEWS "A Case Minder Enters a Bizarre World" PEN Member Lucy Kavaler writes about her experiences as a case minder for several of PEN's Honorary Members. >>More Dissident journalist Akbar Ganji released Akbar Ganji, now aged 46, was arrested in April 2000 with 17 other Iranian journalists and intellectuals who had taken part in a cultural conference in Berlin. International PEN's Writers in Prison Committee welcomes the news that Akbar Ganji was freed on March 17. >>More Vice-president of PEN Belarus released after a 10-day sentence Andrej Dynko was arrested with hundreds of other protesters in the days surrounding the March 19th presidential election in Belarus. PEN continues to call for the release of others who remain detained andfor an end to the attacks on those whose only act has been to practicetheir rights to freedom of expression and association. >>More PEN Marks International Women's Day with a focus on Lydia Chaco Mexican writer and journalist Lydia Cacho currently faces trial under charges of criminal defamation related to her exposure of the connection between businessman José Camel Nacif Borge and alleged child pornographer Jean Succar Kari in the book Los Demonios del Edén. >>More International PEN Writers in Prison Committee meets in Istanbul This March, the sixth annual Writers in Prison Committee conference of International PEN gathered in Istanbul to plan the launch of a campaign against insult and criminal defamation laws under which writers and journalists are imprisoned worldwide, including Article 301 in Turkey. >>More ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET Sun Apr 2 05:58:19 2006 From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (Jules Levin) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 21:58:19 -0800 Subject: Onegin again (a minor correction) In-Reply-To: <001401c655ca$9ffc3aa0$8aa86395@yourg9zekrp5zf> Message-ID: At 12:26 PM 4/1/2006, you wrote: Latin "homo" - "man" (actually "human"; ultimately cognate with Common Slavic *zem- "earth", cf. Lithuanian zmuo/zeme) >Robert Orr The Lithuanian root has a zh-: zhmuo (zhmogus) 'person', zheme: = 'zemlya'. This is the regular Li correspondence to an original Slavic /z/. Lith /z/ is rare--foreign or onomatopoeic. Cf. zebras. Jules Levin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From srpskijezik at YAHOO.CO.UK Sun Apr 2 17:48:01 2006 From: srpskijezik at YAHOO.CO.UK (Skola srpskog jezika i kulture) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 18:48:01 +0100 Subject: announcement Message-ID: Dear friends, Please allow me to inform you about the 5th Serbian Language and Culture Summer School organized in Valjevo (Serbia and Montenegro) in July and August 2006 by SLC Workshop. This program is designed for all people wishing to improve their Serbian and their abilities in Serbian (Slavic) language teaching. All interested persons should visit www.srpskijezik.edu.yu for additional info and application. Thank you for your time. Regards Predrag Obucina Project Director --------------------------------- To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yeremin1 at MSU.EDU Sun Apr 2 18:32:56 2006 From: yeremin1 at MSU.EDU (Olga Sergeyevna Eremina) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:32:56 -0400 Subject: PEN News: March 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060402021735.12828.qmail@web80610.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Len, eto dlia tebia - vdrug tebe interesno Olya Deborah Hoffman writes: > Dear SEELANGovtsy, > Boris Akunin will be participating in the Pen World > Voices Festival of International Literature, more > information about which is available here: > > http://pen.org/page.php/prmID/1096 > > > --- info at pen.org wrote: > >> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:00:37 -0500 (EST) >> To: lino59 at ameritech.net >> Subject: PEN News: March 2006 >> From: info at pen.org >> > > --------------------------------- > PEN American Center > > > PEN MEMBERS > > Be sure to purchase your tickets for World Voices > soon! >>More > > Interested in volunteering for the Festival? >>>Please contact us. > > > > COMING SOON... > > PEN America 7: World Voices > > The latest edition of the PEN literary journal will be > released in just a couple of weeks. This exciting new > issue features Salman Rushdie, Svetlana Alexievich, > Michael Ondaatje, Tsitsi Dangarembga, Zakes Mda, and > the many others who participated in the inaugural > year of the PEN World Voices Festival. >>Pre-order > now! > > > > --------------------------------- > > PEN American Center > 588 Broadway, Suite 303 > New York, NY 10012 > Tel. (212) 334-1660 > Fax. (212) 334-2181 > www.pen.org > > If you do not wish to receive e-mails from us, please > click here. > NEWS FROM PEN > > 2006 PEN World Voices: The New York Festival of > International Literature > We are pleased to announce this year's World Voices > Festival, featuring 137 writers from 41 countries in > 58 events this April in New York City. Tickets are on > sale now! >>More > > Ron Chernow succeeds Salman Rushdie as president of > PEN American Center > At the March 23rd annual meeting, Ron Chernow, the > best-selling biographer of J. P. Morgan, John D. > Rockefeller, and Alexander Hamilton, was elected as > PEN's next president. >> Read the article in The New > York Times. > > PEN Prison Writing Program publishes new edition of > The Handbook for Writers in Prison > The newly updated Handbook features detailed > guides on the art of writing fiction, nonfiction, > poetry, and screenplays and is an invaluable resource > to any incarcerated writer. >>More > > > ANNOUNCING THE 2006 FREEDOM TO WRITE AWARDS > > PEN/Barbara Goldsmith Freedom to Write Awards > This week, PEN named Mohammed Benchicou, an Algerian > newspaper publisher already in prison and facing 50 > additional sentences for his newspaper’s independent > reporting, and Rakhim Esenov, a novelist, historian, > and radio correspondent whose works are banned and who > has been barred from traveling outside of > Turkmenistan, as recipients of its 2006 PEN/Barbara > Goldsmith Freedom to Write Awards. >>More > > PEN/Newman’s Own First Amendment Award > PEN also named Sibel Edmonds, a translator who was > fired from her job at the FBI after complaining of > intelligence failures and poor performance in her > unit, as the recipient of this year’s > prestigious PEN/Newman’s Own First Amendment > Award. >>More > > Jeri Laber International Freedom to Publish Award > Egyptian publisher Mohamed Hashem, whose commitment to > publishing worksof critical thinking has brought him > into conflict with civil andreligious authorities, has > been named by the Association of > AmericanPublishers’ International Freedom to > Publish (IFTP) Committee to receive this year’s > Jeri Laber Award. >>More > > > INTERNATIONAL NEWS > > "A Case Minder Enters a Bizarre World" > PEN Member Lucy Kavaler writes about her experiences > as a case minder for several of PEN's Honorary > Members. >>More > > Dissident journalist Akbar Ganji released > Akbar Ganji, now aged 46, was arrested in April 2000 > with 17 other Iranian journalists and intellectuals > who had taken part in a cultural conference in Berlin. > International PEN's Writers in Prison Committee > welcomes the news that Akbar Ganji was freed on March > 17. >>More > > Vice-president of PEN Belarus released after a 10-day > sentence > Andrej Dynko was arrested with hundreds of other > protesters in the days surrounding the March 19th > presidential election in Belarus. PEN continues to > call for the release of others who remain detained > andfor an end to the attacks on those whose only act > has been to practicetheir rights to freedom of > expression and association. >>More > > > PEN Marks International Women's Day with a focus on > Lydia Chaco > Mexican writer and journalist Lydia Cacho currently > faces trial under charges of criminal defamation > related to her exposure of the connection between > businessman José Camel Nacif Borge and alleged > child pornographer Jean Succar Kari in the book Los > Demonios del Edén. >>More > > International PEN Writers in Prison Committee meets > in Istanbul > This March, the sixth annual Writers in Prison > Committee conference of International PEN gathered in > Istanbul to plan the launch of a campaign against > insult and criminal defamation laws under which > writers and journalists are imprisoned worldwide, > including Article 301 in Turkey. >>More > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Sat Apr 1 21:15:39 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 16:15:39 -0500 Subject: Onegin again In-Reply-To: <001401c655ca$9ffc3aa0$8aa86395@yourg9zekrp5zf> Message-ID: Robert Orr (colkitto) wrote: >> hear, hear! >> >> The phrase "ad hominem argument" seems apt in this particular exchange. > > No, it doesn't. "homo-" in "homosexual" is from Greek "homo-" (with an > omega in the first syllable) "same" (cf. also Common Slavic *sam- plus > all its derivatives (most people on this list could probably come up > with hundreds, from any Slavic language), and not from Latin "homo" - > "man" (actually "human"; ultimately cognate with Common Slavic *zem- > "earth", cf. Lithuanian zmuo/zeme) Fascinating. > In English, forms derived from Latin homo should be pronounced with a > short vowel in the initial syllable, and those from Greek homo- > with a long one. (This distinction has been lost in most Slavic > languages, even those which preserve any sort of length). Yeah, sure! You've got a case! No matter how right you are etymologically, English will do as it pleases. We do say [ædˈhɑmənɛm] with so-called "short o" and [ˌhoməˈfobɪk] with so-called "long o" according to your prescription, but if it were the other way around that would just be the luck of the draw. Many of our earlier long and short vowels have been reorganized, some several times along the way, for reasons that have nothing to do with their provenance. "Night" originally had a short vowel, but we lengthened it when we dropped the velar, and no army of etymologists can change that. What will you do with homonym [ˈhɑməˌnɪm]? In the same way, modern Russian /a/ doesn't necessarily -- or even usually -- represent a Common Slavic long vowel. There have been too many changes along the way. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yeremin1 at MSU.EDU Sun Apr 2 18:32:56 2006 From: yeremin1 at MSU.EDU (Olga Sergeyevna Eremina) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 14:32:56 -0400 Subject: PEN News: March 2006 In-Reply-To: <20060402021735.12828.qmail@web80610.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Len, eto dlia tebia - vdrug tebe interesno Olya Deborah Hoffman writes: > Dear SEELANGovtsy, > Boris Akunin will be participating in the Pen World > Voices Festival of International Literature, more > information about which is available here: > > http://pen.org/page.php/prmID/1096 > > > --- info at pen.org wrote: > >> Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2006 18:00:37 -0500 (EST) >> To: lino59 at ameritech.net >> Subject: PEN News: March 2006 >> From: info at pen.org >> > > --------------------------------- > PEN American Center > > > PEN MEMBERS > > Be sure to purchase your tickets for World Voices > soon! >>More > > Interested in volunteering for the Festival? >>>Please contact us. > > > > COMING SOON... > > PEN America 7: World Voices > > The latest edition of the PEN literary journal will be > released in just a couple of weeks. This exciting new > issue features Salman Rushdie, Svetlana Alexievich, > Michael Ondaatje, Tsitsi Dangarembga, Zakes Mda, and > the many others who participated in the inaugural > year of the PEN World Voices Festival. >>Pre-order > now! > > > > --------------------------------- > > PEN American Center > 588 Broadway, Suite 303 > New York, NY 10012 > Tel. (212) 334-1660 > Fax. (212) 334-2181 > www.pen.org > > If you do not wish to receive e-mails from us, please > click here. > NEWS FROM PEN > > 2006 PEN World Voices: The New York Festival of > International Literature > We are pleased to announce this year's World Voices > Festival, featuring 137 writers from 41 countries in > 58 events this April in New York City. Tickets are on > sale now! >>More > > Ron Chernow succeeds Salman Rushdie as president of > PEN American Center > At the March 23rd annual meeting, Ron Chernow, the > best-selling biographer of J. P. Morgan, John D. > Rockefeller, and Alexander Hamilton, was elected as > PEN's next president. >> Read the article in The New > York Times. > > PEN Prison Writing Program publishes new edition of > The Handbook for Writers in Prison > The newly updated Handbook features detailed > guides on the art of writing fiction, nonfiction, > poetry, and screenplays and is an invaluable resource > to any incarcerated writer. >>More > > > ANNOUNCING THE 2006 FREEDOM TO WRITE AWARDS > > PEN/Barbara Goldsmith Freedom to Write Awards > This week, PEN named Mohammed Benchicou, an Algerian > newspaper publisher already in prison and facing 50 > additional sentences for his newspaper’s independent > reporting, and Rakhim Esenov, a novelist, historian, > and radio correspondent whose works are banned and who > has been barred from traveling outside of > Turkmenistan, as recipients of its 2006 PEN/Barbara > Goldsmith Freedom to Write Awards. >>More > > PEN/Newman’s Own First Amendment Award > PEN also named Sibel Edmonds, a translator who was > fired from her job at the FBI after complaining of > intelligence failures and poor performance in her > unit, as the recipient of this year’s > prestigious PEN/Newman’s Own First Amendment > Award. >>More > > Jeri Laber International Freedom to Publish Award > Egyptian publisher Mohamed Hashem, whose commitment to > publishing worksof critical thinking has brought him > into conflict with civil andreligious authorities, has > been named by the Association of > AmericanPublishers’ International Freedom to > Publish (IFTP) Committee to receive this year’s > Jeri Laber Award. >>More > > > INTERNATIONAL NEWS > > "A Case Minder Enters a Bizarre World" > PEN Member Lucy Kavaler writes about her experiences > as a case minder for several of PEN's Honorary > Members. >>More > > Dissident journalist Akbar Ganji released > Akbar Ganji, now aged 46, was arrested in April 2000 > with 17 other Iranian journalists and intellectuals > who had taken part in a cultural conference in Berlin. > International PEN's Writers in Prison Committee > welcomes the news that Akbar Ganji was freed on March > 17. >>More > > Vice-president of PEN Belarus released after a 10-day > sentence > Andrej Dynko was arrested with hundreds of other > protesters in the days surrounding the March 19th > presidential election in Belarus. PEN continues to > call for the release of others who remain detained > andfor an end to the attacks on those whose only act > has been to practicetheir rights to freedom of > expression and association. >>More > > > PEN Marks International Women's Day with a focus on > Lydia Chaco > Mexican writer and journalist Lydia Cacho currently > faces trial under charges of criminal defamation > related to her exposure of the connection between > businessman José Camel Nacif Borge and alleged > child pornographer Jean Succar Kari in the book Los > Demonios del Edén. >>More > > International PEN Writers in Prison Committee meets > in Istanbul > This March, the sixth annual Writers in Prison > Committee conference of International PEN gathered in > Istanbul to plan the launch of a campaign against > insult and criminal defamation laws under which > writers and journalists are imprisoned worldwide, > including Article 301 in Turkey. >>More > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From padunov+ at PITT.EDU Sun Apr 2 23:45:34 2006 From: padunov+ at PITT.EDU (Vladimir Padunov) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:45:34 -0400 Subject: Question to Moderator In-Reply-To: <11530634.1143998361@[192.168.0.102]> Message-ID: What is the point of messages like the following if you provide absolutely no information on remedy? Is that doing a "professional service'? The message I sent about the latest issue of KINOKULTURA, a journal devoted to contemporary Russian cinema -- and therefore within the purview of the readers of this list -- was NOT sent by anyone else and was not a repeat. And yet getting in touch with you is absurdly difficult. What do you gain by this antediluvian way of operating? Vladimir Padunov > --On Sunday, April 02, 2006 5:11 PM -0400 "CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW > YORK/CIS LISTSERV Server (14.5)" wrote:r > >> Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it appears >> to have already been distributed to the SEELANGS list. That is, a >> message with identical text (but possibly with different mail headers) >> has been posted to the list recently, either by you or by someone >> else. If you have reason to resend this message to the list (for >> instance because you have been notified of a hardware failure with loss >> of data), please alter the text of the message in some way and resend >> it to the list. Note that altering the "Subject:" line or adding blank >> lines at the top or bottom of the message is not sufficient; you should >> instead add a sentence or two at the top explaining why you are >> resending the message, so that the other subscribers understand why >> they are getting two copies of the same message. > > > > _________________________________________ > Vladimir Padunov > Associate Director, Film Studies Program > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > 1433 Cathedral of Learning voice: 1-412-624-5713 > University of Pittsburgh FAX: 1-412-624-9714 > Pittsburgh, PA 15260 padunov at pitt.edu > > Russian Film Symposium http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu _________________________________________ Vladimir Padunov Associate Director, Film Studies Program Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures 1433 Cathedral of Learning voice: 1-412-624-5713 University of Pittsburgh FAX: 1-412-624-9714 Pittsburgh, PA 15260 padunov at pitt.edu Russian Film Symposium http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Mon Apr 3 03:10:23 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 20:10:23 -0700 Subject: Was Onegin a metrosexual? In-Reply-To: <000e01c6559f$ee0c6ab0$d3114047@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: 2 April 06 Dear Inna, This is an interesting suggestion. I like even better, though, the term "mirror men," since Onegin spends so much time in front of a mirror. "Mirror men" are also close to what psychoanalysts mean by narcissistically disturbed men (but not identical). I also like "dandy," since Pushkin himself borrows it from English early in the novel. Historical studies of dandyism have drawn a connection between dandyism and homosexual or bisexual orientation (although not in 100% of the cases). Most importantly, from Tat'iana's perspective (SHE it is who has the famous dream in which she tries to explain to herself why Onegin rejects her), Onegin must be more interested in men than in women as sexual objects. After all, she has her own narcissism to look after, and she has just received a terrible narcissistic injury (recall the mirror SHE puts under her pillow just before the dream). Later, after some terrible things have happened, and as Tat'iana lingers in Onegin's empty room ("в келье модной") where there hangs a portrait of (the bisexual) Byron, and where she reads the books Onegin read, she begins to understand him, to fathom Onegin's depths. But there is no word for what is down there, so all she can do is sigh: Ужель загадку разрешила? Ужели _слово_ найдено? No, because there was no (printable) word. What she sensed was "the Love that dare not speak its name" (to quote Lord Alfred Bruce Douglas, great friend of Oscar Wilde). Regards, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere Inna Caron wrote: >>>From Wiktionary: > >Metrosexual, n (plural metrosexuals) >1. A man concerned with self-image, self-indulgence and >money.(Usually urban, heterosexual, probably affluent). >2. A man who is seen, sociologically, as having attributes common >to homosexuals, but is in fact heterosexual. > >Synonyms > >* dandy - (19th Century ?) >* dude , dood > >* fop - (19th Century ?) >* masher >* nancy boy, nancy > >Mark Simpson's definition: "The typical metrosexual is a young man with >money to spend, living in or within easy reach of a metropolis -- >because that's where all the best shops, clubs, gyms and hairdressers >are. He might be officially gay, straight or bisexual, but this is >utterly immaterial because he has clearly taken himself as his own love >object and pleasure as his sexual preference." >See also Mark Simpson, "Here come the mirror men." The Independent, >November 15, 1994 > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Mon Apr 3 05:54:02 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 22:54:02 -0700 Subject: Question to Moderator In-Reply-To: <20304654.1144007134@[192.168.0.102]> Message-ID: Maybe this is related: I've noticed that I received several messages twice on my machine today, and some old messages too. DRL Vladimir Padunov wrote: > What is the point of messages like the following if you provide > absolutely no information on remedy? Is that doing a "professional > service'? The message I sent about the latest issue of KINOKULTURA, a > journal devoted to contemporary Russian cinema -- and therefore within > the purview of the readers of this list -- was NOT sent by anyone else > and was not a repeat. And yet getting in touch with you is absurdly > difficult. What do you gain by this antediluvian way of operating? > > Vladimir Padunov > >> --On Sunday, April 02, 2006 5:11 PM -0400 "CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW >> YORK/CIS LISTSERV Server (14.5)" wrote:r >> >>> Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it appears >>> to have already been distributed to the SEELANGS list. That >>> is, a >>> message with identical text (but possibly with different mail >>> headers) >>> has been posted to the list recently, either by you or by someone >>> else. If you have reason to resend this message to the list (for >>> instance because you have been notified of a hardware failure with loss >>> of data), please alter the text of the message in some way and resend >>> it to the list. Note that altering the "Subject:" line or adding blank >>> lines at the top or bottom of the message is not sufficient; you >>> should >>> instead add a sentence or two at the top explaining why you are >>> resending the message, so that the other subscribers understand why >>> they are getting two copies of the same message. >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> Vladimir Padunov >> Associate Director, Film Studies Program >> Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures >> 1433 Cathedral of Learning voice: 1-412-624-5713 >> University of Pittsburgh FAX: 1-412-624-9714 >> Pittsburgh, PA 15260 padunov at pitt.edu >> >> Russian Film Symposium http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu > > > > > _________________________________________ > Vladimir Padunov > Associate Director, Film Studies Program > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > 1433 Cathedral of Learning voice: 1-412-624-5713 > University of Pittsburgh FAX: 1-412-624-9714 > Pittsburgh, PA 15260 padunov at pitt.edu > > Russian Film Symposium http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU Mon Apr 3 06:45:19 2006 From: s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU (Prof Steven P Hill) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 01:45:19 -0500 Subject: Padunov's announcement a repeat? Message-ID: Dear Prof Padunov & colleagues: This is an interesting contretemps (attached below). Speaking only for myself (subscriber to a number of different list-servers), I am virtually sure that I saw the same"Kino-Kultura" announcement 3 different times in the past 3 or 4 days. (And quickly deleted 2 of them.) No harm done. I'm not sure on what list-server(s) I saw the different "copies" of that same announcement. But I certainly concede the possibility (stated by the "auto- deletion" received by Prof Padunov) that the same announcement about "Kino-Kultura" might have been submitted to SEELANGS more than once, such as by different submitters...? Best wishes to all, Steven P Hill, University of Illinois. __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _ Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 02:22:33 From: "CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK/CIS LISTSERV Server (14.5)" Subject: Re: GETPOST SEELANGS To: Steven Hill Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:45:34 -0400 From: Vladimir Padunov Subject: Question to Moderator What is the point of messages like the following if you provide absolutely no information on remedy? Is that doing a "professional service'? The message I sent about the latest issue of KINOKULTURA, a journal devoted to contemporary Russian cinema -- and therefore within the purview of the readers of this list -- was NOT sent by anyone else and was not a repeat. And yet getting in touch with you is absurdly difficult. What do you gain by this antediluvian way of operating? Vladimir Padunov _ ___ __ __ __ __ __ > --On Sunday, April 02, 2006 5:11 PM -0400 "CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW > YORK/CIS LISTSERV Server (14.5)" wrote:r > >> Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it appears >> to have already been distributed to the SEELANGS list. That is, a >> message with identical text [ .... ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Mon Apr 3 08:44:40 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 04:44:40 -0400 Subject: Question to Moderator Message-ID: Dear Vladimir, Please do not take it personally, because it is a malfunctioning Listserv computer that is returning your mail... Yes, I also received a couple of old mails recently, It happens to me too on other Listservs, and indeed, sometimes one mail appears and another (same subject) is returned, so, either we press the "send" button 2x by accident, or the Listserv computers duplicate one mail, and returns another. The answer is: resend with another slug line (subject heading). Vera Beljakova Original Message: ----------------- From: Daniel Rancour-Laferriere darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 22:54:02 -0700 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Question to Moderator Maybe this is related: I've noticed that I received several messages twice on my machine today, and some old messages too. DRL Vladimir Padunov wrote: > What is the point of messages like the following if you provide > absolutely no information on remedy? Is that doing a "professional > service'? The message I sent about the latest issue of KINOKULTURA, a > journal devoted to contemporary Russian cinema -- and therefore within > the purview of the readers of this list -- was NOT sent by anyone else > and was not a repeat. And yet getting in touch with you is absurdly > difficult. What do you gain by this antediluvian way of operating? > > Vladimir Padunov > >> --On Sunday, April 02, 2006 5:11 PM -0400 "CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW >> YORK/CIS LISTSERV Server (14.5)" wrote:r >> >>> Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it appears >>> to have already been distributed to the SEELANGS list. That >>> is, a >>> message with identical text (but possibly with different mail >>> headers) >>> has been posted to the list recently, either by you or by someone >>> else. If you have reason to resend this message to the list (for >>> instance because you have been notified of a hardware failure with loss >>> of data), please alter the text of the message in some way and resend >>> it to the list. Note that altering the "Subject:" line or adding blank >>> lines at the top or bottom of the message is not sufficient; you >>> should >>> instead add a sentence or two at the top explaining why you are >>> resending the message, so that the other subscribers understand why >>> they are getting two copies of the same message. >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________ >> Vladimir Padunov >> Associate Director, Film Studies Program >> Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures >> 1433 Cathedral of Learning voice: 1-412-624-5713 >> University of Pittsburgh FAX: 1-412-624-9714 >> Pittsburgh, PA 15260 padunov at pitt.edu >> >> Russian Film Symposium http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu > > > > > _________________________________________ > Vladimir Padunov > Associate Director, Film Studies Program > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > 1433 Cathedral of Learning voice: 1-412-624-5713 > University of Pittsburgh FAX: 1-412-624-9714 > Pittsburgh, PA 15260 padunov at pitt.edu > > Russian Film Symposium http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From padunov+ at PITT.EDU Mon Apr 3 10:49:43 2006 From: padunov+ at PITT.EDU (Vladimir Padunov) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 06:49:43 -0400 Subject: Padunov's announcement a repeat? In-Reply-To: <2160e5fc.a30cbb9e.81f2000@expms6.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Dear Steven Hill: One copy of the announcement for the issue of KINOKULTURA was sent to several list-servers, all of which specialize either in cinema studies or Slavic studies-- specifically: SLAVCIN, H-FILM, SHERA, CULT STUD, and SEELANGS. The first message is sent by the Editor of the journal to SLAVCIN; once it is posted, I as Deputy Editor notify the other servers in one sitting by sending a single message. No one else works on the journal and since Birgit Beumers and I provide the information as soon as the new issue goes online, it is virtually impossible for either of our announcements to be preceded by someone else's. Vladimir Padunov --On Monday, April 03, 2006 1:45 AM -0500 Prof Steven P Hill wrote:r > Dear Prof Padunov & colleagues: > > This is an interesting contretemps (attached below). Speaking only for > myself (subscriber to a number of different list-servers), I am virtually > sure that I saw the same"Kino-Kultura" announcement 3 different times > in the past 3 or 4 days. (And quickly deleted 2 of them.) No harm done. > > I'm not sure on what list-server(s) I saw the different "copies" of that > same announcement. But I certainly concede the possibility (stated by > the "auto- deletion" received by Prof Padunov) that the same announcement > about "Kino-Kultura" might have been submitted to SEELANGS more than > once, such as by different submitters...? > > Best wishes to all, > Steven P Hill, > University of Illinois. > __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _ > > Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 02:22:33 > From: "CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW YORK/CIS LISTSERV Server (14.5)" > Subject: Re: GETPOST SEELANGS > To: Steven Hill > > Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:45:34 -0400 > From: Vladimir Padunov > Subject: Question to Moderator > > What is the point of messages like the following if you provide > absolutely no information on remedy? Is that doing a "professional > service'? The message I sent about the latest issue of KINOKULTURA, a > journal devoted to contemporary Russian cinema -- and therefore within > the purview of the readers of this list -- was NOT sent by anyone else > and was not a repeat. And yet getting in touch with you is absurdly > difficult. What do you gain by this antediluvian way of operating? > > Vladimir Padunov > _ ___ __ __ __ __ __ > >> --On Sunday, April 02, 2006 5:11 PM -0400 "CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW >> YORK/CIS LISTSERV Server (14.5)" wrote:r >> >>> Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it appears >>> to have already been distributed to the SEELANGS list. That is, a >>> message with identical text [ .... ] > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________ Vladimir Padunov Associate Director, Film Studies Program Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures 1433 Cathedral of Learning voice: 1-412-624-5713 University of Pittsburgh FAX: 1-412-624-9714 Pittsburgh, PA 15260 padunov at pitt.edu Russian Film Symposium http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mitrege at AUBURN.EDU Mon Apr 3 13:24:52 2006 From: mitrege at AUBURN.EDU (George Mitrevski) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:24:52 -0500 Subject: Question to Moderator In-Reply-To: <4430B87A.4000706@comcast.net> Message-ID: Vladimir Padunov wrote: > difficult. What do you gain by this antediluvian way of operating? And what do YOU gain by your antediluvian rudeness? Has no one made you aware yet that this list is a free service moderated on voluntary basis? No one is being paid to be always at your service at your calling! George. Foreign Languages tel. 334-844-6376 6030 Haley Center fax. 334-844-6378 Auburn University Auburn, AL 36849 home: www.auburn.edu/~mitrege ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nakol at UNM.EDU Mon Apr 3 14:56:29 2006 From: nakol at UNM.EDU (Natasha) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 08:56:29 -0600 Subject: Question Message-ID: SEELANGERS: A student of mine is considering taking an internship to teach ESL offered by the UK based company LANGUAGE LINK -RUSSIA. Has anyone had any experience with that company? I would greatly appreciate any information you may have. Natasha Kolchevska Chair, Foreign Languages & Literatures Professor of Russian nakol at unm.edu 505-277-3713 Ortega Hall 229A MSC03 2080 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU Mon Apr 3 22:29:39 2006 From: greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Svetlana Grenier) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 18:29:39 -0400 Subject: More questions on Onegin In-Reply-To: <4430921F.70902@comcast.net> Message-ID: Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: > Historical studies of dandyism have drawn a connection between > dandyism and homosexual or bisexual orientation (although not in 100% > of the cases). Most importantly, from Tat'iana's perspective (SHE it > is who has the famous dream in which she tries to explain to herself > why Onegin rejects her), Onegin must be more interested in men than in > women as sexual objects. After all, she has her own narcissism to > look after, and she has just received a terrible narcissistic injury > (recall the mirror SHE puts under her pillow just before the dream). This presupposes that a provincial young maiden like Tatiana would be aware of homosexuality. How likely is that? (My own guess would be: not very!) And how likely is it that Pushkin meant her to have such an "insight"? Svetlana Grenier > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sara_dickinson at VIRGILIO.IT Tue Apr 4 06:44:29 2006 From: sara_dickinson at VIRGILIO.IT (Sara Dickinson) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:44:29 +0200 Subject: Book on early 19th-c. prose Message-ID: Dear colleagues, You may find the following book of interest: > Alessandra Tosi. Waiting for Pushkin: Russian Fiction in the Reign of > Alexander I (1801-1825). Amsterdam/New York: Rodopi, 2006. 429 pp. > > Waiting for Pushkin provides the only modern history of Russian fiction > in the early nineteenth century to appear in over thirty years. Prose > fiction has a more prominent position in the literature of Russia than > in that of any other great country. Although nineteenth-century fiction > in particular occupies a privileged place in Russian and world > literature alike, the early stages of this development have so far been > overlooked. By combining a broad historical survey with close textual > analysis the book provides a unique overview of a key phase in Russian > literary history. Drawing on a wide range of sources, including rare > editions and literary journals, Alessandra Tosi reconstructs the > literary activities occurring at the time, introduces neglected but > fascinating narratives, many of which have never been studied before > and demonstrates the long-term influence of this body of works on the > ensuing "golden age" of the Russian novel. > Waiting for Pushkin provides an indispensable source for scholars and > students of nineteenth-century Russian fiction. The volume is also > relevant to those interested in women.s writing, comparative studies > and Russian literature in general. www.rodopi.nl Best, Sara Dickinson Prof. Sara Dickinson Sezione di Slavistica Dipartimento di Scienze della Comunicazione Linguistica e Culturale Facoltà di Lingue e Letterature Straniere Università degli Studi di Genova ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Tue Apr 4 06:51:28 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 23:51:28 -0700 Subject: More questions on Onegin In-Reply-To: <4431A1D3.3080606@georgetown.edu> Message-ID: 3 April 2006 Dear Svetlana, Why would homosexuality be something a country maiden NOT be aware of? Why assume the woman is not bright enough to know or imagine certain things (a sexist assumption)? Why would homosexuality only be an urban thing? (it exists even in preindustrial cultures, and has been documented by anthropologists worldwide: see the chapter titled "The Homosexual Hominid," in my _Signs of the Flesh_ (Mouton de Gruyter, 1985; reprinted by Indiana University Press, 1992). But of course, we are dealing with a literary work, and you are asking a question about authorial intention (sometimes denigrated as "the intentional fallacy"). As I say in the essay, we cannot know for sure what Pushkin intended (consciously or unconsciously) by the violent finale of that dream - except for the obvious prophecy of a conflict with Lensky, noted by many critics. But, assuming that _Tat'iana_ cannot see into the future her author creates for her, and viewing the upshot of the dream from _her_ current viewpoint (which would be the way a feminist ought to proceed), and, finally, interpreting the dream in the customary psychoanalytic fashion as a "wish-fulfillment," then the SUDDEN CHANGE from the imagery of violent heterosexual defloration earlier in the dream (the standard folkloric imagery of the dangerous bear-groom, the tearing off of Tat'iana's ear-rings, the khoboty krivye, khvosty khokhlatye, klyki, usy, krovavy iazyki....etc.) to a NEW male-on-male violence instead - is motivated. Alas, the beloved Onegin suddenly stabs Lensky instead of "stabbing" Tat'iana. By the way, I would be pleased to hear alternative interpretations of the climax of Tat'iana's dream; and also why they would necessarily exclude the above interpretation. On the other hand, perhaps we are all very sick of Eugene Onegin. Cheers, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere Svetlana Grenier wrote: > Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: > >> Historical studies of dandyism have drawn a connection between >> dandyism and homosexual or bisexual orientation (although not in 100% >> of the cases). Most importantly, from Tat'iana's perspective (SHE it >> is who has the famous dream in which she tries to explain to herself >> why Onegin rejects her), Onegin must be more interested in men than >> in women as sexual objects. After all, she has her own narcissism to >> look after, and she has just received a terrible narcissistic injury >> (recall the mirror SHE puts under her pillow just before the dream). > > > This presupposes that a provincial young maiden like Tatiana would be > aware of homosexuality. How likely is that? (My own guess would be: > not very!) And how likely is it that Pushkin meant her to have such an > "insight"? > > Svetlana Grenier > >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Tue Apr 4 08:34:43 2006 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:34:43 +0100 Subject: Did Onegin row for Cambridge? Message-ID: Well, now for something not quite completely different... I was reading, as one does, a Russian-language account of the Oxford-Cambridge boat race (http://www.newsru.com/sport/02apr2006/lon.html), in which the author refers to the competing crews by their nick-names: Oxford, the 'dark-blues' are the темно-синие [temno-sinie], and Cambridge, the 'light-blues' are the светло-синие [svetlo-sinie]. I am not sure that I have ever encountered the adjective светло-синий [svetlo-sinij] before, and while I can just about imagine what such a colour might be like, I am not sure whether it is an apt description of the very light shade blue favoured by Cambridge sporting teams. As you have no doubt worked out by now, the question on which I would (seriously) welcome observations by members of the list is this: did the writer use this obscure term in deliberate imitation of the English, or was it perhaps an attempt to avoid any possibly unwanted assocations that might arise from a description of the Cambridge rowing eight as голубые [golubye]? John Dunn. John Dunn SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow Hetheringon Building Bute Gardens Glasgow G12 8RS U.K. Tel.: +44 (0)141 330 5591 Fax: +44 (0)141 330 2297 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mshore at INDIANA.EDU Tue Apr 4 12:10:51 2006 From: mshore at INDIANA.EDU (=?UTF-8?Q?Marci_Shore?=) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:10:51 -0400 Subject: MGU Russian program Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, I'm going to be in Moscow for research during the month of July, and am looking for an advanced Russian language course that month that would ideally provide housing and offer classes late afternoon/evening to accomodate archival work. I found this MGU program on the internet that looks promising. Does anyone know anything about it? ZIEGLER & Partner GmbH Moscow State University Vorob'evy gory Humanitarian Korpus Nr 1, k.175 119899 Moscow Tel/Fax +7 495 939 09 80 http://www.studyrussian.com/MGU/intro/intro_eng.html Many thanks! Marci Shore -- Marci Shore Assistant Professor of History and Jewish Studies Department of History Indiana University Ballantine Hall 742 1020 E. Kirkwood Bloomington, IN 47405-7103 tel. 812-855-8036 fax 812-855-3378 mshore at indiana.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU Tue Apr 4 13:54:29 2006 From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 09:54:29 -0400 Subject: More questions on Onegin (plus Bosie) In-Reply-To: <44321770.5000505@comcast.net> Message-ID: > On the other hand, perhaps we are all very sick of Eugene Onegin. Possibly, but I thank the list nevertheless. This discussion sent me back to EO to reread it all -- which is what I hope our students would do when confronted with an unfamiliar theory. That's the main point of this post. As professor of Russian lit (especially since I teach undergraduates), I feel professionally obligated to at least introduce the students to a variety of critical approaches. So why not at least indicate that one trend sees latent bisexual traits in Onegin's behavior? Critical theories can be older or more recent than psychoanalysis, and they may well conflict. It then becomes the obligation of the students to follow up. Some more picky/specific points ... feel free to skip. Onegin as metrosexual or mirror man. That's a terrific analogy, esp. in light of the long explicit description of Onegin's toilette. One caveat: is Onegin truly exceptional here, or is he merely (as with everything else) aping current, extreme fashions which necessitated lots of primping? A quick survey of men's fashions from 1800 to 1821 shows that they changed little from the elaborately "foppish" styles of the early Regency. If anything, by the 1820s things were more pronounced -- more men's corsets, bigger shoulder pads, a more exaggerated silhouette. Byron in Onegin's cell. Yes, as Svetlana Grenier notes, EO repeatedly emphasizes Tatiana's "simple" country nature, a fairly conventional characterization. And no, as Daniel R-L points out, we should not therefore assume she is wholly ignorant of sexuality. Unlike Onegin, Tatiana evolves, and much of that evolution is tied to and encoded in her reading (see Olga Peters Hasty!). So if the younger Tatiana is characterized by her reading of sentimental epistolary novels, why can we not assume it also means something that a slightly older and wiser Tatiana notices the Byron in O's library and starts reading and a new world opens up? She may even realize how trite and predictable Onegin's explicitly limited choice of reading was, and that Onegin himself may be but an "imitation," an "senseless phantasm," a "Muscovite in Harold's cloak," a "full lexicon of faddish words" ... a "uzh ne parodiia li on?" (sed'maia, XXIV) Those are the words immediately preceding >Uzhel' zagadku razreshila? >Uzheli slovo najdeno? >No, because there was no (printable) word. What she sensed was "the Love >that dare not speak its name" (to quote Lord Alfred Bruce Douglas, great >friend of Oscar Wilde). Well, why not, but the previous section suggests Onegin is merely an empty parody of Byron. Bosie. However, let me add a bitchy aside about Lord Alfred Bruce Douglas, aka the beautiful and thoroughly creepy "Bosie." Bosie's dysfunctional relationship with his father finally landed his great friend Wilde in jail. Bosie later turned and published vicious anti-homosexual tirades, only to recant at the end. For good measure, it seems he also advocated the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and never recanted those. One lovely internet source of anti-semitic rants, jewwatch.com, lists Lord Alfred "Bosie" Douglas as British editor of the "Protocols." Dreams and dances The theory of latent bisexuality/homosexuality DOES provide a cogent explanation for the climax of Tatiana's dream and Onegin's behavior at Tatiana's name-day. Clearly it's not to make Tatiana jealous, so his flirting with Olga -- a woman he finds insipid -- is either perversely gratuitous, or directed at Lensky. "Envy" is not enough. This is repeatedly called "revenge." For dragging Onegin into a overcrowded party of bumpkin neighbors, or for not acknowledging Onegin's interest? So ... So why not juxtapose the bisexual Onegin to the nexus of literary references, to Onegin as pure literary cypher (only style, no substance), to more traditional interpretations ("superfluous man") that Onegin is caught in a pointless social order and motivated by utter, ultimately malicious boredom, "cette espece d'orgueil qui fait avouer avec la meme indifference les bonnes comme les mauvaises actions." My students and I may or may not fully accept the psychoanalytical approach, but it often opens up new lines of inquiry. And it provokes discussions and arguments ... just like our list. -FR Francoise Rosset Russian and Russian Studies Interim Chair, Women's Studies Wheaton College Norton, Massachusetts 02766 Office: (508) 285-3696 FAX: (508) 286-3640 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dmacfady at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Tue Apr 4 14:47:37 2006 From: dmacfady at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (MacFadyen, David) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 07:47:37 -0700 Subject: New Russian Music Podcasts Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, To stay abreast of new developments in independent Russian music, I would like to suggest the following series of podcasts: http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/slavic/faculty/podcasts.html Yours, David MacFadyen UCLA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU Tue Apr 4 15:39:12 2006 From: lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU (Laura Janda) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 11:39:12 -0400 Subject: SLS conference -- I can walk the walk! Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Please see the invitation to the Slavic Linguistics Society conference in Bloomington Sept 8-10 below. I decided that I should try to set a good example: Today I wrote an abstract and submitted it. It has 499 words (oh, it was tough to get it down under 500). If I can do it, so can you! Please send in your abstracts. We are going to have a great conference. See you there! --laura janda ************************FIRST CALL FOR PAPERS************************ INAUGURAL MEETING of the Slavic Linguistics Society Where: Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana, USA When: September 8-10, 2006 Address for all correspondence: sls2006 at unc.edu ANNOUNCEMENT: We invite you to submit an abstract to the first meeting of the Slavic Linguistics Society on the campus of Indiana University, September 8-10, 2006. Keynote speakers are: Östen Dahl (Stockholm University) Ronald Feldstein (Indiana University) Barbara Partee (University of Massachusetts at Amherst) The goal is to create a conference that will support our field by being as inclusive as possible. Papers dealing with any aspect of Slavic linguistics and within any framework are appropriate, as well as those that represent cross-disciplinary approaches (sociolinguistics, computational linguistics, language acquisition, etc.). The only restriction is that all papers should address an issue pertaining to Slavic linguistics. All talks will be for 20 minutes, plus 10 minutes for discussion. This is an historic event, at which future directions for the Slavic Linguistics Society will be resolved. We encourage all to participate and ask you to share this announcement with as many colleagues and students as possible. DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSION OF ABSTRACTS: April 15, 2006 CONFERENCE WEBPAGE: http://www.unc.edu/~lajanda/sls2006.html GUIDELINES FOR SUBMISSION OF ABSTRACTS: Please send your abstract to sls2006 at unc.edu by April 15, 2006. Your abstract should: Be sent as an attachment Be sent in both MicrosoftWord (.doc) and pdf formats Contain no more than 500 words Contain only Unicode fonts, if at all possible As appropriate, identify the framework, describe the methodology, explain how data will be analyzed – in other words, please be as concrete and specific as possible in describing your paper. All abstracts will be refereed and participants should be notified by mid-May 2006. We look forward to hearing from you! —Laura Janda (for the SLS conference committee) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at COMCAST.NET Tue Apr 4 15:44:16 2006 From: ggerhart at COMCAST.NET (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 08:44:16 -0700 Subject: Help Message-ID: Friends of mine are searching for a Russian linguist by the name of Narine Manasian. I would greatly appreciate any kind of address or telephone number. Thanks, Genevra Gerhart ggerhart at comcast.net www.genevragerhart.com www.russiancommonknowledge.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From herrington.matthew at GMAIL.COM Tue Apr 4 17:08:58 2006 From: herrington.matthew at GMAIL.COM (Matthew Herrington) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 13:08:58 -0400 Subject: MGU Russian program In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Marci, I've studied at MGU for the past two summers, once in a program organized by Florida State University (using MGU language instructors) and once on my own on a FLAS Fellowship. The first year I was in group instruction with American students and the second year in private instruction. I highly suggest against group instruction at MGU and highly suggest individual instruction. In my experience it's better to pay extra for individual instruction and simply take fewer hours, if money is a factor. The instructors are flexible and accomodating. I spent all of last summer reading nothing but Pushkin and my teacher had a blast...literature was a nice change for her. Also, with individual instruction your schedule is more flexible which will allow you to get out early every day to make it to the archive. One word of warning though: Go through the MGU philological faculty itself and not another company that arranges lessons at or around MGU...there are a lot of imposters (and they can even arrange housing in MGU dormitories) and, from what I know of them, students have been disappointed. Ziegler may be one of them. I don't know the website you need off the top of my head but the name of the director of the Russian for foreigners program at MGU is Georgii Moskvin. Best, Matt On 4/4/06, Marci Shore wrote: > > Dear SEELANGers, > > I'm going to be in Moscow for research during the month of July, and am > looking for an advanced Russian language course that month that would > ideally provide housing and offer classes late afternoon/evening to > accomodate archival work. > > I found this MGU program on the internet that looks promising. Does anyo > ne > know anything about it? > > > ZIEGLER & Partner GmbH > Moscow State University > Vorob'evy gory > Humanitarian Korpus Nr 1, k.175 > 119899 Moscow > Tel/Fax +7 495 939 09 80 > http://www.studyrussian.com/MGU/intro/intro_eng.html > > Many thanks! > > > Marci Shore > > -- > Marci Shore > Assistant Professor of History and Jewish Studies > Department of History > Indiana University > Ballantine Hall 742 > 1020 E. Kirkwood > Bloomington, IN 47405-7103 > tel. 812-855-8036 > fax 812-855-3378 > mshore at indiana.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From M.J.BERRY.RUS at BHAM.AC.UK Tue Apr 4 18:06:33 2006 From: M.J.BERRY.RUS at BHAM.AC.UK (Michael Berry) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 19:06:33 +0100 Subject: Did Onegin row for Cambridge? Message-ID: You may well be on to something here - The 1978 edition of Velikobritaniya Lingvostranovedcheskii slovar' clearly states (p.62): ????? - ???????????? ???? ???????????? ????????????, ??????? - ???????????? ???? ????????????? ???????????? (sinii - traditsionnyi tsvet Oksfordskogo universiteta, goluboi - traditsionnyi tsvet Kembridzhskogo universiteta). Mike Berry, CREES, University of Birmingham, Birmingham UK. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From crosswhi at RICE.EDU Tue Apr 4 17:58:32 2006 From: crosswhi at RICE.EDU (Katherine Crosswhite) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 12:58:32 -0500 Subject: MGU Russian program In-Reply-To: <143408770604041008x256dadbci168e7808ff63cfa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Years ago, I also went to MGU for a summer language program. I also went directly through the philological faculty, and would recommend that. The website is: http://www.philol.msu.ru/eng/edu/courses/ I'm sure it will be cheaper than going through a third party, you'll be assured that everything is on the up and up, and you'll also be working directly with very friendly and helpful people. I was there a long time ago, when this program was very new, so things might have changed slightly by now, but here's my take: The instructors were wonderful -- massive experience and education, very friendly and excited to work with you. Our instructors were either actual MGU faculty in the Russian for Foreigners department (the equivalent of our TESOL departments), or their advanced graduate students. I don't think you could get better instructors. The administrators of the program, Georgii Moskvin and Evgeny Korneev were also great and very helpful. I don't think their website emphasizes it enough -- they will work with you to give you the program you want to have. For example, when not a lot of students were turning up for the "cultural program" outings, they got them together and asked "What *do* you want to go see?" The next week, in response, an outing to the former KGB building/museum was organized, which was a big hit with all the undergraduates who were there. If there is anything that is important to you that isn't offered/mentioned in the standard program, just ask about it. For example, I found out after I got there that I could have had a phone in my dorm room if I had asked -- I had just assumed it wasn't possible because it wasn't included in the "standard" room. (I think the standard room now might come with a phone, but ask.) When I asked about internet access, they also figured out where I could do that on campus. (Again, probably a standard thing now, but ask.) A lot of the people there might be part of a group organized by some specific American / British / other university, but there may also be individual students such as yourself. I signed up for the group study option, but it turned out there were so few people in the "advanced" group that it worked out to be pretty similar to one-on-one instruction anyway. I get the impression they may have more students now, so it may be worthwhile to do the individual study option. Best, Katherine. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Tue Apr 4 18:22:18 2006 From: AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Alex Rudd) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 14:22:18 EDT Subject: Question to Moderator In-Reply-To: Message of Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:45:34 -0400 from Message-ID: On Sun, 2 Apr 2006 19:45:34 -0400 Vladimir Padunov said: >What is the point of messages like the following if you provide absolutely >no information on remedy? Is that doing a "professional service'? The >message I sent about the latest issue of KINOKULTURA, a journal devoted to >contemporary Russian cinema -- and therefore within the purview of the >readers of this list -- was NOT sent by anyone else and was not a repeat. >And yet getting in touch with you is absurdly difficult. What do you gain >by this antediluvian way of operating? Dear SEELANGers, I apologize for taking up your time and disk space with this, but Mr. Padunov posted his question for all to see, so I might as well respond in kind. Dear Mr. Padunov, First, I am baffled about why you would send a "Question to Moderator" to the list address. You have been subscribed to the SEELANGS list for about 10 years. Surely you know that SEELANGS is not a moderated list. (In other words, I'm the list owner, but I'm not the moderator.) Also, I have posted often that I can be contacted at the list owner's address, which is SEELANGS-Request at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU. This information is also found in the Welcome message sent to new subscribers and on our Web site. (The Web site address is at the bottom of every post to the list.) And if you're really tech savvy, it's also in the mail header of every post. In any event, I will be pleased to respond to the substance of your question. In your message, you quoted the one you received from LISTSERV. It began like this: >--On Sunday, April 02, 2006 5:11 PM -0400 "CITY UNIVERSITY OF NEW >YORK/CIS LISTSERV Server (14.5)" wrote:r > >>Your message is being returned to you unprocessed because it appears >>to have already been distributed to the SEELANGS list. That is, a >From that message, please take away the following: LISTSERV sent it at 5:11 PM on April 2, 2006. Next, I note that your subscription options are set such that you are sent a copy of every message you post to the list. I will safely assume, then, that you received a copy of this message, which you posted to the list the day before. --- Begin --- Message-ID: <44296392.1143878636@�192.168.0.102�> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 08:03:56 -0500 Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list Sender: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list From: Vladimir Padunov Subject: �SEELANGS� KINOKULTURA 12 (April 2006) Comments: cc: Vladimir Padunov To: SEELANGS@RV.CUNY.EDU The April issue of Kinokultura (#12) is now available on line. www.kinokultura.com This issue features festival reports and articles based on a roundtable at AAASS in 2005, as well as film reviews. This issue's video has been awarded two top awards at recent festivals! --- End --- My point here is this: - You first posted your message about the latest issue of KINOKULTURA at 8:03 AM on April 1, 2006. - LISTSERV informed you that it would not distribute a duplicate of that message (as I mentioned above) at 5:11 PM on April 2, 2006. >From this we can conclude that one of two things happened. Either you submitted your message a second time (33 hours after the first one was distributed) or else your message inexplicably remained in the CUNY mail server for more than a day and was delivered a second time by the mail server to the list server, at which point the list server sent you that message. Can I state definitively for you what happened here? No... because I don't have access to the CUNY server logs and I don't feel like bothering the LISTSERV maintainer with this. I can, though, state with some authority that in the 13 years I've been running SEELANGS, I do not recall an instance where the mail server has delivered a second copy of a message to the list server more than 24 hours after it first did so. If I were you, I would first check my "Sent Mail" folder in Mulberry (your mail client) to make sure you didn't, in fact, submit your message twice. I included the Message-ID number above so you can check it against the Message-ID you might find in any other copy of your message. If it is a true copy, the Message-ID will be the same. If it is a second iteration, it will be different. I'm not sure what "information on remedy" you hoped to see in that message you received. If a message has already been distributed, then what's to fix? You were trying to post a message. Hurray! It's been distributed. Done. If you want to double-check that it was, in fact, distributed, then check the archives. Every message posted to SEELANGS is archived. There's information about that and a link to easy web-based searching on our Web site. Finally, in his follow-up to your message, George Mitrevski was absolutely right (though I wish he'd put it a little more gently). I administer the SEELANGS list as a volunteer in my free time. If I billed you at the same rate I bill out my time in my full-time job, you could not afford me. :) It did take me some time to respond to your message, so I hope you appreciate at least that much, even if my volunteer status renders the "service" something less than "professional." Getting in touch with me is not absurdly difficult, by the way. Just send me e-mail. I checked, and I have not received any e-mail from you lately. Regards, - Alex, list owner of SEELANGS -- Alex Rudd List owner e-mail: seelangs-request at listserv.cuny.edu Personal e-mail: ahrjj at cunyvm.cuny.edu http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ Any opinion expressed above is not necessarily shared by my employers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU Tue Apr 4 20:16:05 2006 From: pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (Peter Scotto) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 16:16:05 -0400 Subject: Mirror Men and sexual orientatation In-Reply-To: <4430921F.70902@comcast.net> Message-ID: > This is an interesting suggestion. I like even better, though, the term > "mirror men," since Onegin spends so much time in front of a mirror. > "Mirror men" are also close to what psychoanalysts mean by > narcissistically disturbed men (but not identical). Fyodor Pavlovich Karamazov also spends time in front of a mirror. Most notably on the night of his murder as he adjusts the red bandage he has donned to cover up the bruises from Mitya's beating. He is also quite carefully dressed: "He was wearing a new striped silk dressing gown, which Mitya had never seen on him before, tied with a tassled cord also of silk. Clean, stylish linen, a fine Dutch shirt with gold studs peeped out from under the collar of his gown. [...] "All dressed up, thought Mitya." So is he a "meterosexual" or even a closet "homosexual"? Throughout history, dandyism of one sort of another has been a form of male display, and to eqaute it with sexual orientatin strikes me as reductionistic, a-historical, and, in fact, puritanical ("any man who pays that much attention to his clothes can't be a "real man'". I also like > "dandy," since Pushkin himself borrows it from English early in the > novel. Historical studies of dandyism have drawn a connection between > dandyism and homosexual or bisexual orientation (although not in 100% of > the cases). Most importantly, from Tat'iana's perspective (SHE it is > who has the famous dream in which she tries to explain to herself why > Onegin rejects her), Onegin must be more interested in men than in women > as sexual objects. After all, she has her own narcissism to look after, > and she has just received a terrible narcissistic injury (recall the > mirror SHE puts under her pillow just before the dream). > > Later, after some terrible things have happened, and as Tat'iana lingers > in Onegin's empty room ("× ËÅÌØÅ ÍÏÄÎÏÊ") where there hangs a portrait > of (the bisexual) Byron, and where she reads the books Onegin read, she > begins to understand him, to fathom Onegin's depths. But there is no > word for what is down there, so all she can do is sigh: > > õÖÅÌØ ÚÁÇÁÄËÕ ÒÁÚÒÅÛÉÌÁ? > õÖÅÌÉ _ÓÌÏ×Ï_ ÎÁÊÄÅÎÏ? > > No, because there was no (printable) word. What she sensed was "the > Love that dare not speak its name" (to quote Lord Alfred Bruce Douglas, > great friend of Oscar Wilde). > > Regards, > > Daniel Rancour-Laferriere > > > > > Inna Caron wrote: > > >>From Wiktionary: > > > >Metrosexual, n (plural metrosexuals) > >1. A man concerned with self-image, self-indulgence and > >money.(Usually urban, heterosexual, probably affluent). > >2. A man who is seen, sociologically, as having attributes common > >to homosexuals, but is in fact heterosexual. > > > >Synonyms > > > >* dandy - (19th Century ?) > >* dude , dood > > > >* fop - (19th Century ?) > >* masher > >* nancy boy, nancy > > > >Mark Simpson's definition: "The typical metrosexual is a young man with > >money to spend, living in or within easy reach of a metropolis -- > >because that's where all the best shops, clubs, gyms and hairdressers > >are. He might be officially gay, straight or bisexual, but this is > >utterly immaterial because he has clearly taken himself as his own love > >object and pleasure as his sexual preference." > >See also Mark Simpson, "Here come the mirror men." The Independent, > >November 15, 1994 > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU Tue Apr 4 21:02:02 2006 From: greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Svetlana Grenier) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 17:02:02 -0400 Subject: More questions on Onegin In-Reply-To: <44321770.5000505@comcast.net> Message-ID: Dear Daniel (and Francoise), > Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: > Why would homosexuality be something a country maiden NOT be aware > of? Why assume the woman is not bright enough to know or imagine > certain things (a sexist assumption)? Why would homosexuality only be > an urban thing? (it exists even in preindustrial cultures, and has > been documented by anthropologists worldwide: see the chapter titled > "The Homosexual Hominid," in my _Signs of the Flesh_ (Mouton de > Gruyter, 1985; reprinted by Indiana University Press, 1992). Well, a sexist assumption or not, but growing up in St. Petersburg (urban) in the 1960s and 70s I had no idea about homosexuality until I was in my late teens, and then learned about it when, reading The Catcher in the Rye, encountered the word "pederast" and looked it up in a dictionary, which still gave a very vague idea of the whole thing (and I consider myself pretty bright). Therefore, I think this is not a matter of brightness but of cultural milieu and what one is exposed to. So my question was (and is): what do we know about Tatiana's cultural milieu (as portrayed by Pushkin and equally well known to his contemporaries) that would suggest knowledge of homosexuality on Tatiana's part? > > But of course, we are dealing with a literary work, and you are asking > a question about authorial intention (sometimes denigrated as "the > intentional fallacy"). As I say in the essay, we cannot know for sure > what Pushkin intended (consciously or unconsciously) by the violent > finale of that dream - except for the obvious prophecy of a conflict > with Lensky, noted by many critics. _But, assuming that _Tat'iana_ > cannot see into the future her author creates for her_, and viewing > the upshot of the dream from _her_ current viewpoint (which would be > the way a feminist ought to proceed), and, finally, interpreting the > dream in the customary psychoanalytic fashion as a "wish-fulfillment," So, are we assuming that Pushkin believes in "customary psychoanalytic" interpretation of dreams and does _not_ believe in _prophetic_ dreams? Why? What about Petrusha Grinev's dream in _The Captain's Daughter_? And does not the narrator's description of Tatiana's dream as "chudnyi" imply its prophetic character? We know that Pushkin himself believed in fate, went to fortune-tellers, and was superstitious. Or am I confused about your assumption, and you are interpreting Tatiana's dream as that of a "patient" independent of her creator's intention? Another point: the fact that Tatiana saw Lord Byron's portrait in Onegin's study supposedly helps her figure out Onegin's "zagadka"--i.e., his latent homo- or bi-sexuality. Again, would Byron's bisexuality have been known to Tatiana? How widely was it known at the time? Was Pushkin aware of it? > then the SUDDEN CHANGE from the imagery of violent heterosexual > defloration earlier in the dream (the standard folkloric imagery of > the dangerous bear-groom, the tearing off of Tat'iana's ear-rings, the > khoboty krivye, khvosty khokhlatye, klyki, usy, krovavy > iazyki....etc.) to a NEW male-on-male violence instead - is > motivated. Alas, the beloved Onegin suddenly stabs Lensky instead of > "stabbing" Tat'iana. By the way, I would be pleased to hear > alternative interpretations of the climax of Tat'iana's dream; and > also why they would necessarily exclude the above interpretation. See above: Tatiana sees into the future, where her wish of Onegin loving and marrying her (instead of the monsters, who represent guests at the party) is partially fulfilled, both in the dream and in reality--cf. Onegin's "tender" glance at her-- but where Lensky and Olga somehow interpose themselves between Onegin and Tatiana, which leads to Onegin's slaying of Lensky. A knife seems like a much more appropriate folkloric implement for such slaying than a pistol would. These are my two cents, as a layman (woman) in dream interpretation. (I have not yet looked up the sources on Pushkin and homosexuality that are cited in the article--perhaps they answer my questions above.) Regards, Svetlana Grenier > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mshore at INDIANA.EDU Wed Apr 5 02:33:29 2006 From: mshore at INDIANA.EDU (Marci Shore) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 22:33:29 -0400 Subject: MGU Russian program In-Reply-To: <4432B3C8.4030004@rice.edu> Message-ID: Dear Katherine, Many thanks! Marci On 4/4/06, Katherine Crosswhite wrote: > Years ago, I also went to MGU for a summer language program. I also > went directly through the philological faculty, and would recommend > that. The website is: > > http://www.philol.msu.ru/eng/edu/courses/ > > I'm sure it will be cheaper than going through a third party, you'll be > assured that everything is on the up and up, and you'll also be working > directly with very friendly and helpful people. > > I was there a long time ago, when this program was very new, so things > might have changed slightly by now, but here's my take: > > The instructors were wonderful -- massive experience and education, very > friendly and excited to work with you. Our instructors were either > actual MGU faculty in the Russian for Foreigners department (the > equivalent of our TESOL departments), or their advanced graduate > students. I don't think you could get better instructors. The > administrators of the program, Georgii Moskvin and Evgeny Korneev were > also great and very helpful. I don't think their website emphasizes it > enough -- they will work with you to give you the program you want to > have. For example, when not a lot of students were turning up for the > "cultural program" outings, they got them together and asked "What *do* > you want to go see?" The next week, in response, an outing to the > former KGB building/museum was organized, which was a big hit with all > the undergraduates who were there. If there is anything that is > important to you that isn't offered/mentioned in the standard program, > just ask about it. For example, I found out after I got there that I > could have had a phone in my dorm room if I had asked -- I had just > assumed it wasn't possible because it wasn't included in the "standard" > room. (I think the standard room now might come with a phone, but > ask.) When I asked about internet access, they also figured out where I > could do that on campus. (Again, probably a standard thing now, but > ask.) A lot of the people there might be part of a group organized by > some specific American / British / other university, but there may also > be individual students such as yourself. > > I signed up for the group study option, but it turned out there were so > few people in the "advanced" group that it worked out to be pretty > similar to one-on-one instruction anyway. I get the impression they may > have more students now, so it may be worthwhile to do the individual > study option. > > Best, > > Katherine. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Marci Shore Assistant Professor of History and Jewish Studies Department of History Indiana University Ballantine Hall 742 1020 E. Kirkwood Bloomington, IN 47405-7103 tel. 812-855-8036 fax 812-855-3378 mshore at indiana.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mshore at INDIANA.EDU Wed Apr 5 02:34:03 2006 From: mshore at INDIANA.EDU (Marci Shore) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 22:34:03 -0400 Subject: MGU Russian program In-Reply-To: <143408770604041008x256dadbci168e7808ff63cfa8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Matt, Many thanks! Marci On 4/4/06, Matthew Herrington wrote: > Dear Marci, > > I've studied at MGU for the past two summers, once in a program organized by > Florida State University (using MGU language instructors) and once on my own > on a FLAS Fellowship. The first year I was in group instruction with > American students and the second year in private instruction. > > I highly suggest against group instruction at MGU and highly suggest > individual instruction. In my experience it's better to pay extra for > individual instruction and simply take fewer hours, if money is a factor. > The instructors are flexible and accomodating. I spent all of last summer > reading nothing but Pushkin and my teacher had a blast...literature was a > nice change for her. Also, with individual instruction your schedule is > more flexible which will allow you to get out early every day to make it to > the archive. > > One word of warning though: Go through the MGU philological faculty itself > and not another company that arranges lessons at or around MGU...there are a > lot of imposters (and they can even arrange housing in MGU dormitories) and, > from what I know of them, students have been disappointed. Ziegler may be > one of them. I don't know the website you need off the top of my head but > the name of the director of the Russian for foreigners program at MGU is > Georgii Moskvin. > > Best, > Matt > > > On 4/4/06, Marci Shore wrote: > > > > Dear SEELANGers, > > > > I'm going to be in Moscow for research during the month of July, and am > > looking for an advanced Russian language course that month that would > > ideally provide housing and offer classes late afternoon/evening to > > accomodate archival work. > > > > I found this MGU program on the internet that looks promising. Does anyo > > ne > > know anything about it? > > > > > > ZIEGLER & Partner GmbH > > Moscow State University > > Vorob'evy gory > > Humanitarian Korpus Nr 1, k.175 > > 119899 Moscow > > Tel/Fax +7 495 939 09 80 > > http://www.studyrussian.com/MGU/intro/intro_eng.html > > > > Many thanks! > > > > > > Marci Shore > > > > -- > > Marci Shore > > Assistant Professor of History and Jewish Studies > > Department of History > > Indiana University > > Ballantine Hall 742 > > 1020 E. Kirkwood > > Bloomington, IN 47405-7103 > > tel. 812-855-8036 > > fax 812-855-3378 > > mshore at indiana.edu > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Marci Shore Assistant Professor of History and Jewish Studies Department of History Indiana University Ballantine Hall 742 1020 E. Kirkwood Bloomington, IN 47405-7103 tel. 812-855-8036 fax 812-855-3378 mshore at indiana.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From harjen2002 at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 5 03:05:30 2006 From: harjen2002 at YAHOO.COM (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Harald_Hille?=) Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 23:05:30 -0400 Subject: Russian concert - April 23 - Boston Message-ID: 50 Alumni of the Yale Russian Chorus will present a Easter feast concert of Russian religious, composed and folk music at Arlington Street Church (Boylston and Arlington Streets, near Public Garden) in Boston on Sunday afternoon, April 23 at 3 pm. Rev. George Whitehouse and friends will also ring the ASC bells in the Russian manner. Suggested donation of $10. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Wed Apr 5 07:20:11 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 00:20:11 -0700 Subject: This Onegin thing Message-ID: 4 April 06 Dear Colleagues, It is remarkable how persistent this Onegin thing has been. Have I touched on a sore point? Is it really worth that many postings? I only mentioned Onegin's homosexual/bisexual orientation as one example of how psychoanalysis tends to be discriminated against in the Slavic field (the editor of _Russian Review_ said over the phone that he would be happy to publish that paper if I would just "delete the homosexual part"). I wonder, by the way, how many of you whose chains I have pulled have actually read the paper (in either its English or Russian variants)? And how many of you have read _Signs of the Flesh_, where all the major literature - psychoanalytic, anthropological, sociobiological - on homosexuality (up to 1985) is surveyed? Do you know that there are societies/cultures in this world where ALL males are expected to engage in homosexual acts in their youth? Some of you have written me privately or publicly to say that the thought of homosexuality never even entered your minds until fairly late in life. "I had no idea," says Svetlana Grenier. I doubt it. Have you tried free association? Automatic writing? Have you watched children play? Have you listened to children tell you their dreams? All this would require time, effort, and probably cash if you took the trouble to explore your past on an analyst's couch (or took the time to read reports of said explorations - as I said earlier, serious interdisciplinary study takes an enormous amount of work) . The unconscious knows much more than is presented to the self or to the world at a conscious level (Gogol said this in his Ukrainian tale about father-daughter incest long before Freud stated it formally). Yes, Pushkin's narrator does not tell us much about Tat'iana's childhood, and lets us just make assumptions, or guides us toward heterosexual assumptions. But psychologists know something about childhood too, and in any case Tat'iana IS bright, IS superstitious (a highly creative combination), IS desperately in love with Onegin, and so.... Peter Scotto points out an instance where Fedor Pavlovich Karamazov spends some time before a mirror. I do not recall whether this was something he did on a regular basis, however (as in Onegin's case), and it would be interesting to see the full context of this particular act of primping. In any case, Scotto protests: >Throughout history, dandyism of one sort of another has been a form of male >display, and to eqaute it with sexual orientatin strikes me as reductionistic, >a-historical, and, in fact, puritanical ("any man who pays that much attention >to his clothes can't be a "real man'". > But who "equated" dandyism with sexual orientation? And who says dandys (dandies?) cannot be "real men?" Certainly Onegin is man enough to fight a duel. There are some pretty tough guys in the gay community, and indeed some rather violent S&M practices are encountered. Also note the parenthesis in what I said to Inna Caron: > I also like "dandy," since Pushkin himself borrows it from English > early in the novel. Historical studies of dandyism have drawn a > connection between dandyism and homosexual or bisexual orientation > (although not in 100% of the cases). The studies in question are in my bibliography, and I understand there have been more since. I also point to a commonplace psychiatric observation in SOF: tranvestite dressing in males is often NOT accompanied by actual homosexual behavior (e.g., the man who needs to wear his wife's dress in order to have sex with her). If it persists over years, however, it tends to be incorporated into a pattern of homosexual encounters or a homosexual partnership. Svetlana Grenier writes: > So, are we assuming that Pushkin believes in "customary > psychoanalytic" interpretation of dreams and does _not_ believe in > _prophetic_ dreams? Why? What about Petrusha Grinev's dream in _The > Captain's Daughter_? And does not the narrator's description of > Tatiana's dream as "chudnyi" imply its prophetic character? We know > that Pushkin himself believed in fate, went to fortune-tellers, and > was superstitious. Or am I confused about your assumption, and you > are interpreting Tatiana's dream as that of a "patient" independent of > her creator's intention? Yes, you are indeed confused about my assumption(s). First, I am not asserting that Pushkin makes any "customary psychoanalytic" interpretation. I do that, we do that. We scholarly readers are the ones making the interpretations (Pushkin [via his Tat'iana] creates, we interpret). Secondly, the dream is prophetic AND has its other meaning. Why would these two exclude one another? Why impoverish Pushkin's text with a single-minded reading? Many critics have already said the dream is prophetic - so why deny it? What most of you seem to be denying is Tat'iana's creative oneiric response to the narcissistic injury she has received from Onegin. As for Lord Byron's portrait, that helps US understand Onegin's bisexuality (WE know who Byron was). But for Tat'iana, I think it just helps her confirm her sneaking suspicion that Onegin is gay too. Cheers, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Lyssakov at EU.SPB.RU Wed Apr 5 12:57:18 2006 From: Lyssakov at EU.SPB.RU (Pavel Lyssakov) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 16:57:18 +0400 Subject: IMARS application deadline Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, This is a reminder that April 30, 2006 is the application deadline for the International MA in Russian Studies (IMARS) program at the European University-SPb, for the academic year 2006-07. IMARS is a graduate program for students who already hold a B.A. degree or its equivalent and wish to continue their study of Russia or other successor states of the Soviet Union, while residing and doing research in Russia. Currently offered specializations are: Political Science, Sociology, History, Cultural Studies. Instruction is in English. Russian language classes are also offered. 70% of our faculty hold Western Ph.D.'s For more information please go to http://www.eu.spb.ru/en/imars/index.htm or write to Programs Director Dr. Pavel Lyssakov Aslo this year we have announced a three-week Summer School in July (with an option of staying in Russia for up to a month). More information can be found at http://www.eu.spb.ru/en/russianstudies/index.htm Dr Pavel Lyssakov Director, International Programmes and Development Faculty of Political Science and Sociology The European University at St Petersburg Phone/Fax: +7 (812) 279-44-02 Fax: +7 (812) 275-51-33 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jmcguckin at CIEE.ORG Wed Apr 5 13:43:18 2006 From: jmcguckin at CIEE.ORG (=?windows-1252?Q?(Jarlath_McGuckin)?=) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:43:18 -0400 Subject: Popular Music Concert in Boston Message-ID: The tribute band KINO PROBY will play the music of legendary rock icon Viktor Tsoi at the All Asia Cafe in Cambridge, Massachusetts at 10pm on Saturday, April 15th. The All Asia Cafe is at 334 Massachusetts Avenue near Central Square. This group of young American men, based in Portland, Maine, has been performing the music of Kino for 1 year in Boston, Maine and New York. For more information, visit www.kinoproby.com. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vbelyanin at GMAIL.COM Wed Apr 5 13:57:20 2006 From: vbelyanin at GMAIL.COM (Valery Belyanin) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 09:57:20 -0400 Subject: diagnosis liver disease, bisexuality, and other analytical pursuits In-Reply-To: <20060324093151.635he70qsk4so0c8@webmail.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Dear all I have been following the discussion with great interest. It is the discussion of the year! And I want to add my five cents. http://www.textology.ru/public/pushkin.html http://www.mospsy.ru/phorum/read.php?f=2&i=2381&t=2381 (though this is all in Russian). Yours truly, Валерий Белянин / Valery Belyanin, Psycholinguistic forum: http://www.mospsy.ru/phorum/list.php?f=2 On 3/24/06, nataliek at ualberta.ca wrote: > > Now I would like to add my two cents. There have been very interesting > analyses written not only of the mental makeup of the characters in > literature and art, but also of the physical diseases that might, or > might not, plague them. I remember an article in Science, I believe, > that tried to diagnose the ailments that might be afflicting a figure > in a painting. I unfortunately don't remember which painting. Why is > this interesting and important? Figures in literature and in art shape > our imagination. They are, or become, iconic. So seeing what diseases > of the body or of the mind capture our imagination tells us something > about ourselves. > > Natalie Kononenko Kule Chair of Ukrainian Ethnography > University of Alberta Modern Languages and Cultural Studies > 200 Arts Building Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2E6 > Phone: 780-492-6810 Web: http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/uvp/ > -- From anthony.j.vanchu at NASA.GOV Wed Apr 5 18:10:19 2006 From: anthony.j.vanchu at NASA.GOV (Vanchu, Anthony J. (JSC-AH)[TTI]) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 13:10:19 -0500 Subject: This Onegin thing Message-ID: I pose the following question (more or less out of idle curiosity): why is no one talking about Lacanian (vs. Freudian) approaches to the issues that have been raised? Or about the respective merits of the ideas of Lacan vs. Freud in literary analysis in general? I know Lacan has perhaps even fewer adherents than Freud in Russian literary studies, but I've generally found that his work can provide significant insight (e.g., the concept of "the gaze," which would be fruitful in the Onegin example). This, despite Lacan's all too frequently opaque prose. Tony Vanchu Dr. Anthony J. Vanchu Director, JSC Language Education Center TechTrans International, Inc. NASA Johnson Space Center Houston, TX Phone: (281) 483-0644 Fax: (281) 483-4050 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From newsnet at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Wed Apr 5 18:32:29 2006 From: newsnet at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (NewsNet) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 14:32:29 -0400 Subject: AAASS Tucker/Cohen prize for an outstanding doctoral dissertation Message-ID: This is not directly language and literature related, but could you please forward the following message to the appropriate center or department at your institution? thank you ****************** AAASS Tucker/Cohen prize for an outstanding doctoral dissertation in political science and political history of the Soviet Union PLEASE NOTE THE DEADLINE IS NEXT WEEK -- APRIL 15, 2006 The American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies calls for nominations for the 2006 Tucker/Cohen dissertation prize. The prize carries a $5,000 award intended to help the author turn the dissertation into a publishable manuscript. The Tucker/Cohen prize is awarded annually (if there is a distinguished submission) for an outstanding doctoral dissertation in the tradition of historical political science and political history of the Soviet Union as practiced by Robert C. Tucker and Stephen F. Cohen. The prize will be awarded for the first time at the AAASS convention in Washington, D.C., November 2006, for any dissertation defended in 2005. By April 15, 2006, faculty supervisors should nominate no more than one dissertation, sending to each committee member listed below their letter and a 700-1000-word abstract from the candidate, specifying the location, sources, and general findings of the research. (Candidates may also initiate the nomination, but it must come from their advisors.) The committee will read this material and then request copies of the dissertations that best meet the criteria, as defined in the statement below. The committee consists of Alex Rabinowitch (2512 Buttonwood Lane, Bloomington, IN 47401), chair; William Taubman (Amherst College, Department of Political Science, Amherst, MA 01002); and Elizabeth Wood, (History Faculty, MIT, E51-180, 77 Massachusetts Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139). The dissertation may originate in any university department. While it may involve other Soviet republics, preference will be given to those that focus primarily on Russia during one or more periods between October 1917 and December 1991. And while it may include social, cultural, economic, international or other dimensions, its primary subject and analytical purpose should be in the realm of domestic politics, as broadly understood in public or academic life. The dissertation must be defended during the year prior to the award. A nomination will consist of an abstract of 700-1000 words and a detailed letter from the dissertation's main faculty supervisor, explaining the ways in which the work is truly outstanding in both its empirical and its interpretive contributions. Awardees must be U.S. citizens or permanent residents, associated with a university in the U.S. With any questions regarding the prize, please contact: Jolanta M. Davis AAASS Publications Coordinator and NewsNet Editor American Association for the Advancement of Slavic Studies (AAASS) 8 Story Street Cambridge, MA tel.: 617-495-0679 fax: 617-495-0680 Web site: www.fas.harvard.edu/~aaass ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU Wed Apr 5 21:06:32 2006 From: John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU (Pendergast, J. MAJ DFL) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:06:32 -0400 Subject: This Onegin thing Message-ID: Onegin fans- I would feel remiss not to take a step into this melee since I wrote my MA thesis on the topic, albeit some years ago. My focus was, however, primarily on the opera, and I would submit that the Onegin of Pushkin's page may be somewhat different from the Onegin on Tchaikovsky's stage. I think many contributors have already provided plenty of insight into the literary Evgeniy, but I want to make a couple of observations about the person Tchaikovsky creates in his "lyrical scenes" (the bulk of the evidence suggests that Tchaikovsky himself was the author of the libretto). There is an entire maelstrom of other controversies that one stirs up when speaking about Tchaikovsky's works, especially in the context of his sexuality, but I will say that I come from the perspective most fully developed by Poznansky's publications on Tchaikovsky, which states that he was a self-aware homosexual who entered into a disastrous marriage naively hoping to gain the social status attendant to marriage the same year that he wrote the eponymous opera (parentheically, I agree with Rebecca J. Stanton's idea that our present-day conception of "gay" and the sort of lifestyle that Tchaikovsky led are not entirely similar). There is evidence, I believe, in both the libretto and the score that, in the context of experiencing the tremendous stresses of his failed marriage, he created dramatic and thematic juxtapositions that strongly support the thesis that Daniel Rancour-Laferriere puts forth as being the cause for Onegin's rejection of Tatiana: namely, that Onegin is more concerned with flirting with Lensky and making him jealous than in anything to do with Ol'ga or Tatiana. I can't guess Onegin's reasons with any more certainty than anyone else, but I can provide dozens of examples in the text of the libretto and the music of the score that show the primary love triangle of Tchaikovsky's creation to have had as its points NOT Lensky, Ol'ga and Onegin, but Lensky, Onegin, and Tatiana. Here are just a few: 1) The theme sung by Tatiana on the words "Kto ty: moy angel li khranitel'?" in the Act One letter-writing scene is extremely closely related to the theme sung by Lensky in Act Two on the words "Chto den' gryadushchiy mne gotovit?" The secind is essentially a minor key variation on the first. There is even a short entr'acte musical introduction to Act Two in which Tatiana's "Kto ty" theme morphs briefly into Lensky's "Chto den' gryadushchiy" theme. I think this clearly shows Tchaikovsky's feeling that the real choice facing Onegin is between Tatiana and Lenksy. 2) The duel. The sequence of texts selected from Pushkin's original and arranged for the duel, taken together in the order they appear, give the impression that Lensky may have Onegin in mind when he sings "zhelannyj drug, pridi, ya tvoy suprug," especially because Onegin is the person who appears immediately after these words have been sung. In the verse novel, Lensky writes these words in a letter that is sent privately to Ol'ga, but the dramatic sequence in the opera produces a somewhat different effect. The "Vragi" duet, sung by Onegin and Lensky just before the duel, is set up as a canon, causing each one to repeat their lines almost tripping over each other, more like a love duet, and in fact, the theme of Lensky's Act One aria "Ya lyublyu vas" (significantly, WITHOUT the notes on which the appositive name Ol'ga is previously sung) is heard in the orchestra immediately after Onegin and Lensky's duet. In the cinematic Tikhomirov production of the opera, certainly neither Tatiana nor Ol'ga seems to be on either man's mind during the "Vragi" duet. I feel that my comments are running a bit long, but I just wanted to point out that, beyond the interpretation one may glean directly from Pushkin's words, at least one great interpreter of the work, Tchaikovsky, seems to have sensed a familiar conflict between Onegin and Lensky based on homosexual tensions. Is that because he himself had an axe to grind? Perhaps, but the result is a work that resonates, is immensely popular, and probably actually more familiar to most people who THINK they know the REAL Onegin. John Pendergast Major, US Army Assistant Professor of Russian 745 Brewerton Rd Department of Foreign Languages United States Military Academy West Point, NY 10996 Office-845-938-8737 Cell-914-388-1469 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Rancour-Laferriere Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 3:20 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] This Onegin thing 4 April 06 Dear Colleagues, It is remarkable how persistent this Onegin thing has been. Have I touched on a sore point? Is it really worth that many postings? I only mentioned Onegin's homosexual/bisexual orientation as one example of how psychoanalysis tends to be discriminated against in the Slavic field (the editor of _Russian Review_ said over the phone that he would be happy to publish that paper if I would just "delete the homosexual part"). I wonder, by the way, how many of you whose chains I have pulled have actually read the paper (in either its English or Russian variants)? And how many of you have read _Signs of the Flesh_, where all the major literature - psychoanalytic, anthropological, sociobiological - on homosexuality (up to 1985) is surveyed? Do you know that there are societies/cultures in this world where ALL males are expected to engage in homosexual acts in their youth? Some of you have written me privately or publicly to say that the thought of homosexuality never even entered your minds until fairly late in life. "I had no idea," says Svetlana Grenier. I doubt it. Have you tried free association? Automatic writing? Have you watched children play? Have you listened to children tell you their dreams? All this would require time, effort, and probably cash if you took the trouble to explore your past on an analyst's couch (or took the time to read reports of said explorations - as I said earlier, serious interdisciplinary study takes an enormous amount of work) . The unconscious knows much more than is presented to the self or to the world at a conscious level (Gogol said this in his Ukrainian tale about father-daughter incest long before Freud stated it formally). Yes, Pushkin's narrator does not tell us much about Tat'iana's childhood, and lets us just make assumptions, or guides us toward heterosexual assumptions. But psychologists know something about childhood too, and in any case Tat'iana IS bright, IS superstitious (a highly creative combination), IS desperately in love with Onegin, and so.... Peter Scotto points out an instance where Fedor Pavlovich Karamazov spends some time before a mirror. I do not recall whether this was something he did on a regular basis, however (as in Onegin's case), and it would be interesting to see the full context of this particular act of primping. In any case, Scotto protests: >Throughout history, dandyism of one sort of another has been a form of >male display, and to eqaute it with sexual orientatin strikes me as >reductionistic, a-historical, and, in fact, puritanical ("any man who >pays that much attention to his clothes can't be a "real man'". > But who "equated" dandyism with sexual orientation? And who says dandys (dandies?) cannot be "real men?" Certainly Onegin is man enough to fight a duel. There are some pretty tough guys in the gay community, and indeed some rather violent S&M practices are encountered. Also note the parenthesis in what I said to Inna Caron: > I also like "dandy," since Pushkin himself borrows it from English > early in the novel. Historical studies of dandyism have drawn a > connection between dandyism and homosexual or bisexual orientation > (although not in 100% of the cases). The studies in question are in my bibliography, and I understand there have been more since. I also point to a commonplace psychiatric observation in SOF: tranvestite dressing in males is often NOT accompanied by actual homosexual behavior (e.g., the man who needs to wear his wife's dress in order to have sex with her). If it persists over years, however, it tends to be incorporated into a pattern of homosexual encounters or a homosexual partnership. Svetlana Grenier writes: > So, are we assuming that Pushkin believes in "customary > psychoanalytic" interpretation of dreams and does _not_ believe in > _prophetic_ dreams? Why? What about Petrusha Grinev's dream in _The > Captain's Daughter_? And does not the narrator's description of > Tatiana's dream as "chudnyi" imply its prophetic character? We know > that Pushkin himself believed in fate, went to fortune-tellers, and > was superstitious. Or am I confused about your assumption, and you > are interpreting Tatiana's dream as that of a "patient" independent of > her creator's intention? Yes, you are indeed confused about my assumption(s). First, I am not asserting that Pushkin makes any "customary psychoanalytic" interpretation. I do that, we do that. We scholarly readers are the ones making the interpretations (Pushkin [via his Tat'iana] creates, we interpret). Secondly, the dream is prophetic AND has its other meaning. Why would these two exclude one another? Why impoverish Pushkin's text with a single-minded reading? Many critics have already said the dream is prophetic - so why deny it? What most of you seem to be denying is Tat'iana's creative oneiric response to the narcissistic injury she has received from Onegin. As for Lord Byron's portrait, that helps US understand Onegin's bisexuality (WE know who Byron was). But for Tat'iana, I think it just helps her confirm her sneaking suspicion that Onegin is gay too. Cheers, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From e.gapova at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Wed Apr 5 21:29:12 2006 From: e.gapova at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Elena Gapova) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 17:29:12 -0400 Subject: More questions on Onegin In-Reply-To: <44321770.5000505@comcast.net> Message-ID: Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: Dear Colleagues, I think all participants in the Onegin discussion have agreed that Onegin could demonstrate homosexual tendencies only if Pushkin consciously or subconsciously wanted him to demonstrate them. So, as far as Onegin's alleged homosexuality is concerned, a careful biographical approach is, I believe, quite justified. Was Pushkin aware of existing homosexuality in high society of Saint Petersburg and Moscow? He certainly was. He even had knowledge of the historic example of homosexual practices in the aristocratic milieu. In my article "Was the Covetous Knight Pore and Was the Pore Knight Covetous" (Russian Literature LV, 2004, University of Amsterdam) I attempted to demonstrate that Pushkin was interested in the dualistic doctrine of the Knights of the Temple. The Templars were accused of practicing homosexuality at their infamous trial in the fourteenth century . The Templars' seal, which featured two knights sitting on the same horse tightly close to each other, served as one of the numerous evidences of their guilt (remember in "Stseny iz rytsarskikh vremen" the knight says, "u vas net loshadei, pozvol'te predlozhit' vam nashikh, my siadim za vami, kak osvobozhdennye krasavitsy"). What was Pushkin's perspective on homosexuality? It was humorous and ironic as it was among heterosexual educated men of the period. Pushkin wrote about F. F. Vigel' who was widely known as being a homosexual, "vse ego besedy konchaiutsia razgovorami o muzhelozhestve", he also says humorously in the poem addressed to Vigel', "No, Vigel', poshchadi moi zad!". Later Pushkin's good friend S. Sobolevskii wrote a brilliant epigram on Videl': "Schastliv dom, a s nim i fligel'//Iz kotorykh, ne skorbia,//Akh, Filip Filipych Vigel',//V sheiu vygnali tebia!" There is also an account about Pushkin's last sarcasm. Pushkin and Danzas on the way to the place of the duel were passing a carriage in which Count Borx and his wife rode, and Pushkin reportedly said , "Here are two happy families. The wife lives with a coachman and the husband lives with a flunky" Pushkin could "reword" Onegin with a propinquity for homosexuality if his attitude to Onegin was purely ironic and sarcastic. Which is probably not the case since Onegin in the epilogue of the novel acquires the distinct air of a lonely and tragic figure. In addition Pushkin from the very beginning presents Onegin as his close acquaintance ("dobryi moi priiatel") and calls him "moi Onegin". Did Pushkin have homosexuals among his friends and close acquaintances? According to all indications, he did not. Regards, Yevgeny Slivkin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Wed Apr 5 23:41:03 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 19:41:03 -0400 Subject: QED: now onto Knights Templars / More questions on Onegin Message-ID: Original Message: ----------------- From: Slivkin, Yevgeny Yevgeny.Slivkin at MONTEREY.ARMY.MIL Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 15:45:30 -0700 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] More questions on Onegin Dear Colleagues, I think all participants in the Onegin discussion have agreed that Onegin could demonstrate homosexual tendencies only if Pushkin consciously or subconsciously wanted him to demonstrate them. So, as far as Onegin's alleged homosexuality is concerned, a careful biographical approach is, I believe, quite justified. Was Pushkin aware of existing homosexuality in high society of Saint Petersburg and Moscow? He certainly was. He even had knowledge of the historic example of homosexual practices in the aristocratic milieu. In my article "Was the Covetous Knight Pore and Was the Pore Knight Covetous" (Russian Literature LV, 2004, University of Amsterdam) I attempted to demonstrate that Pushkin was interested in the dualistic doctrine of the Knights of the Temple. The Templars were accused of practicing homosexuality at their infamous trial in the fourteenth century . The Templars' seal, which featured two knights sitting on the same horse tightly close to each other, served as one of the numerous evidences of their guilt (remember in "Stseny iz rytsarskikh vremen" the knight says, "u vas net loshadei, pozvol'te predlozhit' vam nashikh, my siadim za vami, kak osvobozhdennye krasavitsy"). What was Pushkin's perspective on homosexuality? It was humorous and ironic as it was among heterosexual educated men of the period. Pushkin wrote about F. F. Vigel' who was widely known as being a homosexual, "vse ego besedy konchaiutsia razgovorami o muzhelozhestve", he also says humorously in the poem addressed to Vigel', "No, Vigel', poshchadi moi zad!". Later Pushkin's good friend S. Sobolevskii wrote a brilliant epigram on Videl': "Schastliv dom, a s nim i fligel'//Iz kotorykh, ne skorbia,//Akh, Filip Filipych Vigel',//V sheiu vygnali tebia!" There is also an account about Pushkin's last sarcasm. Pushkin and Danzas on the way to the place of the duel were passing a carriage in which Count Borx and his wife rode, and Pushkin reportedly said , "Here are two happy families. The wife lives with a coachman and the husband lives with a flunky" Pushkin could "reword" Onegin with a propinquity for homosexuality if his attitude to Onegin was purely ironic and sarcastic. Which is probably not the case since Onegin in the epilogue of the novel acquires the distinct air of a lonely and tragic figure. In addition Pushkin from the very beginning presents Onegin as his close acquaintance ("dobryi moi priiatel") and calls him "moi Onegin". Did Pushkin have homosexuals among his friends and close acquaintances? According to all indications, he did not. Regards, Yevgeny Slivkin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kjanicka at brynmawr.edu Thu Apr 6 00:27:46 2006 From: kjanicka at brynmawr.edu (Katie Janicka) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:27:46 -0400 Subject: Programs in interpreting and translation Message-ID: Dear colleagues, A student and friend of mine is looking for programs that train students in professional level Russian. She will be graduating as Russian major in a couple of weeks. She has a firm command of the language already - she took intensive Russian at college and spent a summer and an academic year in Russia on an ACTR program. She wants to be an interpreter. She is looking to study in a translation/interpreting program at graduate level. I know that several translators regularly contribute to discussion on SEELANGS. Please, share your experiences, recommend programs/schools, etc. The student's e-mail is: suzi.weygandt at gmail.com This may also be of interest to others, so you could reply to the list as well. Your help will be greatly appreciated. Best, Katie ****************** Katie Janicka Russian Department Bryn Mawr College ****************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Thu Apr 6 03:55:10 2006 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:55:10 -0700 Subject: More questions on Onegin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >3 April 2006 > >Dear Svetlana, > >Why would homosexuality be something a country maiden NOT be aware of? >Why assume the woman is not bright enough to know or imagine certain >things (a sexist assumption)? What a woman (or a man) knows should be studied and analized and not assumed one way or another, particularly when we are dealing with a taboo subject. In fiction (David Lodge) we find examples of young Catholic women who thought they would get pregnant from an embrace, and in some popular sexual psychology of the late 20th century we find a story of a woman who thought herself infertile and adopted children and upon her death was discovered to be a virgin. Needless to say she had been married for over 30 years and had sex with her husband (but apparently not the kind that makes a woman pregnant). And if Tatyana were to know about homosexuality (or even sexuality) as an unmarried girl, where would this knowledge come from? Were there any books on her shelf that would enlighten her, or can we expect her nanny teach her, or maybe her mother? -- __________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET Thu Apr 6 02:06:08 2006 From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (Jules Levin) Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 19:06:08 -0700 Subject: More questions on Onegin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: At 08:55 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: >And if Tatyana were to know about homosexuality (or even sexuality) >as an unmarried girl, where would this knowledge come from? Were >there any books on her shelf that would enlighten her, or can we >expect her nanny teach her, or maybe her mother? >Alina Israeli Perhaps from seeing dogs in the road and stallions in the field engaging in homosexual activity...;-) Certainly the public heterosexual copulation of animals was a fixture of both town and countryside a hundred years ago. But maybe genteel young ladies were expected not to look. But would Tatyana have read Leviticus? Homosexual-ITY isn't mentioned of course, but the behavior is. And this suggestion seems to return us to a previous topic... Jules Levin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Thu Apr 6 04:31:45 2006 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 00:31:45 -0400 Subject: More questions on Onegin In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.0.20060405185936.05fd2100@earthlink.net> Message-ID: As I understand, there is no evidence, whatsoever, that would even hint that Tatyana's lifestyle included observation of any sexual activity between animals. Moreover, the very idea of upbringing of a gentle lady would restrict her activities to a very narrow circle leaving simple folk to deal with real life. She was day-dreaming, and her fantasies were brought by the books she read. Quoting A.S., Yej rano nravilis' romany, Oni yej zamenyali VSYO; Ona vlyublyalasya v obmany I Richardsona i Russo. ...................... Zhena zh ego byla sama Ot Richardsona bez uma. ----------------------------------- I have not read Rousseau for over 40 years, but I do not remember anything there that could serve as a manual for Sex Ed. Samuel Richardson is known to me only through Hollywood (Clarissa), and I have no idea whether his books could educate a young lady on the matters of homosexuality. If anyone knows it, please share your information with the list. I believe that there are two different questions which are confused in this discussion: 1) How A.S. saw his character, and 2) How others interpret the same character and the connection between the character and its creator. I do believe in the absolute freedom of interpretation, and there is nothing wrong in seeing something in a book about which its author might never had even a thought. One might say: "Oh, this is what the author had in his/her subconsciousness," and this could be very interesting for those who keep psychoanalysis in high esteem. Nevertheless, it is not a universally accepted approach, and one might strive for some more established and recognized methods of literary reconstruction based rather on scrupulous studies of the lifestyle in the given period. Do we need to tell apart any individual poetic interpretation based on intuition from analytical approach? I think so. One might even mix them together but then his/her work will be more or less related to the second of the questions. Tchaikovsky was a very powerful interpreter of the novel. However, it was purely poetic interpretation through his own personality. One might analyze the opera but it is not what A.S. wrote, even if the opera is a treasure itself. A famous contemporary Russian songwriter, Veronika Dolina, has a poem where she portraits Sancho Panza as a woman who is in love with her master. It's a wonderful song, however, I have not heard about anybody thinking that this might be what was in Cervantes' subconsciousness. Or was it? I guess that the measure of our acceptance of any not strictly constructive (borrowing from contemporary political lexicon) literary criticism varies in direct proportion with our belief in those methods and the amount of imagination used there. Whether it is too much imagination, or is not enough, characterizes more ourselves than the work we study. Constructive criticism might be less interesting but it is certainly different from its attractive counterpart, and we should not mix them together to avoid any confusion. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Wed, 5 Apr 2006, Jules Levin wrote: > At 08:55 PM 4/5/2006, you wrote: > > >And if Tatyana were to know about homosexuality (or even sexuality) > >as an unmarried girl, where would this knowledge come from? Were > >there any books on her shelf that would enlighten her, or can we > >expect her nanny teach her, or maybe her mother? > >Alina Israeli > > Perhaps from seeing dogs in the road and stallions in the field > engaging in homosexual activity...;-) Certainly the public > heterosexual copulation of animals was a fixture of both town and > countryside a hundred years ago. But maybe genteel young ladies were > expected not to look. > But would Tatyana have read Leviticus? Homosexual-ITY isn't > mentioned of course, but the behavior is. And this suggestion seems to > return us to a previous topic... > Jules Levin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Thu Apr 6 05:32:13 2006 From: AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Alex Rudd) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 01:32:13 EDT Subject: Question to Moderator In-Reply-To: Message of Tue, 4 Apr 2006 14:22:18 EDT from Message-ID: On Tue, 4 Apr 2006 14:22:18 EDT I said: >My point here is this: > > - You first posted your message about the latest issue of KINOKULTURA >at 8:03 AM on April 1, 2006. > > - LISTSERV informed you that it would not distribute a duplicate of >that message (as I mentioned above) at 5:11 PM on April 2, 2006. > >>From this we can conclude that one of two things happened. Either you >submitted your message a second time (33 hours after the first one was >distributed) or else your message inexplicably remained in the CUNY >mail server for more than a day and was delivered a second time by the >mail server to the list server, at which point the list server sent you >that message. > >Can I state definitively for you what happened here? No... because I >don't have access to the CUNY server logs and I don't feel like >bothering the LISTSERV maintainer with this. Dear SEELANGers, I am following up here to my own message (quoted in pertinent part above). You will recall that I wrote that message in reply to one posted by Vladimir Padunov, whom LISTSERV sent a duplicate message notice more than one day after he posted to the list. My reply implied (not so transparently) that I suspected human error was the culprit, in part because Mr. Padunov's experience was, as far as I knew, unique, despite the fact that there were 11 messages posted to SEELANGS on Saturday, April 1, the day on which he posted that first message. However... after my reply was distributed, I heard off-list from another list member who reported similar LISTSERV behavior. He posted on Saturday, the post was successful, and yet he immediately received a notice from LISTSERV advising that his duplicate submission had been rejected. Armed with such additional information, I did feel comfortable bothering the LISTSERV maintainer (who is usually busy dealing with the 4,000 e-mails he receives every day and no, that is not an exaggeration). The LISTSERV maintainer informed me that we did, in fact, have some trouble on Saturday. The server crashed about 50 times, each time bringing itself back up. Although no one else from any of the 160+ other lists run on the LISTSERV server at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU reported this problem to him, he conceded that my other theory is entirely plausible. That is, what could have happened, and probably did happen, is that the mail server crashed after having forwarded a submission to LISTSERV for distribution on SEELANGS, and then when it brought itself back up, it no longer had a record of having forwarded the submission, so it forwarded the submission again, which resulted in the rejection messages. I'll keep this short by wrapping up with the following: 1) If you ever experience aberrant behavior on the part of LISTSERV after posting to SEELANGS, please write me. I can't do anything about it if I don't know about it. This includes, by the way, those vacation messages sent you off-list after you've posted. They reflect misconfigured vacation messages and I will gladly instruct LISTSERV to stop sending list mail to those people if you forward me those offending vacation messages. (Should I ever set you to NOMAIL like that, you can set yourself back by sending the command SET SEELANGS MAIL in the body of e-mail to LISTSERV at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU.) 2) To the extent that my reply to Mr. Padunov's message contained incorrect assumptions and/or conclusions that may have caused others to think negatively of Mr. Padunov or his post, I sincerely apologize. We now return you to our regularly-scheduled program, already in progress... - Alex, list owner of SEELANGS -- Alex Rudd List owner e-mail: seelangs-request at listserv.cuny.edu Personal e-mail: ahrjj at cunyvm.cuny.edu http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ Any opinion expressed above is not necessarily shared by my employers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From renee at alinga.com Thu Apr 6 11:27:42 2006 From: renee at alinga.com (Renee Stillings) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:27:42 -0400 Subject: apartment available in Moscow this summer Message-ID: Dear List, One of my colleagues has an apartment available this summer in Moscow. It is a stone's throw from the Ukraine Hotel (3-minutes walk to metro Kievskaya). Clean, spacious western-style 2-room furnished apartment. 7th floor. Large balcony overlooking the yard and the Moscow river. Available May until September. $1500/month. Tenant for full 4-month period preferable. Contact Natalia at natasha at alinga.com or +7 (495) 141-6882 (late evenings). Renee ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msr2003 at COLUMBIA.EDU Thu Apr 6 11:34:18 2006 From: msr2003 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Margo Rosen) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 07:34:18 -0400 Subject: programs in interpreting and translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Regarding > 1. Programs in interpreting and translation I note that veteran U.N. interpreter and author Lynn Visson will be teaching an intensive introduction to translation and interpretation this summer at Columbia University, as part of Columbia's Russian Summer Practicum: http://www.ce.columbia.edu/summer/russianPracticum.cfm Columbia also offers an M.A. in translation. Best, Margo Rosen Slavic Dept Columbia University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tbuzina at yandex.ru Thu Apr 6 14:43:12 2006 From: tbuzina at yandex.ru (Tatyana Buzina) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 18:43:12 +0400 Subject: More questions on Onegin - and Richardson Message-ID: >Samuel Richardson is known >to me only through Hollywood (Clarissa), and I have no idea whether his >books could educate a young lady on the matters of homosexuality. If >anyone knows it, please share your information with the list. "Clarissa" which Tatyana certainly read (and of which Pushkin was of a dual opinion), centers heavily on heterosexual relations between everybody. At least outwardly, I feel compelled to add. Of the possible signs of homosexuality, recaling dandyism which was discussed in such a lively way, Robert Lovelace is certainly very concerned with appearance, both his own and Clarissa's. His detailed description of Clarissa's dress is an example. He describes himself as a great expert on ladies' dresses as he helped so many ladies out of theirs. His womanizing which could admittedly be interpreted as overcompensating for his striving for his own sex is explained as revenge on women for his being spurned by a lady he had thought to be his while she had preferred him to some duke. His aim is to ruin as many as he can because he thinks they are not deserving of anything better. Do we take his explanation for what he claims it is, or do we not? I would think his apparent misogyny rather speaks for his heterosexuality than the other way round. The most crucial question, however, is what would Clarissa and any other 18th century woman make of it? The word "love" figures prominently in the correspondence between Clarissa and her friend Anna Howe. How do we interpret it? The most obvious interpretation that Richardson means is that "love" signifies tender and spiritual friendship between the two girls. (When two girls in the 5th grade draw hearts in each other's diaries, what does it mean? Everything or nothing?) Clarissa refuses to get married to anybody (a very atypical thing for that moment) because nobody can live up to her moral standards. (Richardson seems to be wholeheartedly behind her in that; he, in general, thinks that women should stand on their own and not just be companion pieces for men.) Clarissa loves Lovelace as he becomes convinced after a series of trials but she never goes as far as bluntly admitting it. She refuses to marry the person who is repulsive to every other woman in England and she claims that such a marriage would jeopardize her immortal soul. (The poor filthy rich and ugly man, by the way, never gets married because everybody despises and abhors him.) Do we read her position as a manifestation of latent homosexuality and a desire to live with Anna (I am going out on a limb here, but why not?). Yet Clarissa repeatedly urges Anna to marry as Anna does have a suitor which Clarissa considers an excellent man, and when Anna offers to escape and stay with Clarissa to help her escape the persecutions of her family, Clarissa refuses and instead elopes with Lovelace. So, do we look at her behavior as suppressed homosexuality, or do we view it as a manifestation of the pride and egotism of virtue which proves to be perilous to Clarissa herself? Personally, I consider the second interpretation more interesting because it offers an unusual perspective on the issues of sin and virtue and opens up possibilities of interesting comparisons. Sin breeds not perdition only but also humility and love for thy neighbor while virtue breeds pride ans thus itself becomes a sin. Well, that is my pet topic so naturally I am biased here. The mentioning of the TV Clarissa, though, led me to thinking about interpretations, especially modern interpretations of older texts. I hope we're talking about the same four-part BBC mini-series from 1991. It attempts to follow the book as closely as possible (one of the script writers is an 18th century English lit scholar), but makes some interesting departures. In the book, Clarissa has a dream which is something straight out of Edgar Poe, she dreams that Lovelace buries her alive. In the film, he stabs her through the heart with his sword. Also, the film hints heavily at the incestuous relations between Clarissa's siblings. Besides kissing and such like, Clarissa's sister sheathes her brother's sword in a very suggestive way. This is repeated several times. However, all it is based on is a single phrase in the book about the brother and sister walking towards Clarissa "lover-like," hand in hand. Now Richardson clearly used "lover" to mean "in love" without necessarily carnal implications ("Grandisson" begins with the phrase "the news of your departure greatly saddened your three lovers," and the phrase is applied to Harriet Byron, the paragon of virtue). Richardson repeats many things and situations but not his one. Is repeated kissing between the brother and sister in the film then amplifying what was clear to the 18th century audience, or is it reading something into a text which didn't necessarily mean it? I am still in doubt. Sorry for a long post, but I did it in less words than Richardson would have. Regards, Tatyana ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU Thu Apr 6 15:48:18 2006 From: russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU (Russell Valentino) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 10:48:18 -0500 Subject: programs in interpreting and translation In-Reply-To: <1144323258.4434fcba0f3fa@cubmail.cc.columbia.edu> Message-ID: Quoting Margo Rosen : > Columbia also offers an M.A. in translation. > > Best, > Margo Rosen > Slavic Dept > Columbia University In this connection, let me note last weekend's University of Iowa Translation Colloquium and Carnival, organized by graduate students in Iowa's MFA program in translation. This was a follow-up to a similar conference held two years ago at UCLA (organized by grad students in comp lit. there) More than thirty grad students from around the country attended last weekend's events, which featured two book launches, roundtables, workshops, and a keynote address by Michael Heim. It was quite stimulating and exciting to see so much enthusiasm. Iowa offers a Master in Fine Arts (MFA) degree in translation and a Ph.D. in comp lit with a translation/translation studies emphasis. The program is closely coordinated with Iowa's other writing units, in particular with the International Writing Program, which is the largest residency program for foreign writers in the U.S. -- every fall some 35 writers from around the world spend 10-week residencies in Iowa City, writing, translating, performing, collaborating. The list of past participants (from Tomaz Salamun and Dubravka Ugresic to Viktor Pelevin) sometimes looks like a who's who of Slavic and Central/East European lit. Students in the MFA program regularly work with these writers, and the contacts that come from their collaborations are often quite lasting. If SEELANGS contributors have students who might be interested in such a program, they can send them to me with questions. Russell Valentino Associate Professor of Russian and Comparative Literature University of Iowa ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yfurman at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Thu Apr 6 16:17:44 2006 From: yfurman at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Furman, Yelena) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 09:17:44 -0700 Subject: Question Message-ID: Dear Natasha, One of my former students is currently teaching with Language Link in Moscow. Here's what she has to say (the following comments come directly from her, pasted with her permission): Yes, I teach with Language Link - Russia, and I have a LOT of opinions about it! First and foremost, I would tell any candidate that there is quite a bit of travelling involved (to the teachers' office, to your various places of work around Moscow etc). This travelling often involves lots of books. It's definitely not a "comfortable" job, but it can be very rewarding. That's my main thought at the moment...oh, and that the Russian teachers and classes at Language Link in Moscow have been really, really excellent and flexible. Basically, if you want to study Russian, opt for the minimum teaching hours, as lesson planning and travelling to and from work can be very time consuming. Working for Language Link has definitely been, thus far, a really good learning experience! The Russian language department is excellent though. Right now they're actually running Russian classes for visiting university students from England. It's sort of like an EAP program for them, and they call it RLUS. Hope this helps. Best, Yelena Furman ________________________________ From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list on behalf of Natasha Sent: Mon 4/3/2006 7:56 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Question SEELANGERS: A student of mine is considering taking an internship to teach ESL offered by the UK based company LANGUAGE LINK -RUSSIA. Has anyone had any experience with that company? I would greatly appreciate any information you may have. Natasha Kolchevska Chair, Foreign Languages & Literatures Professor of Russian nakol at unm.edu 505-277-3713 Ortega Hall 229A MSC03 2080 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Thu Apr 6 21:44:35 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 17:44:35 -0400 Subject: More questions on Onegin Message-ID: > Mr Levin thinks: Perhaps from seeing dogs in the road and stallions in the field engaging in homosexual activity...;-) Certainly the public heterosexual copulation of animals was a fixture of both town and countryside a hundred years ago. But maybe genteel young ladies were expected not to look. Young genteel ladies as girl children were told that the animals were only 'playing' - and that is exactly what I also believed when told that.... Vera Beljakova. -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Thu Apr 6 23:17:17 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2006 16:17:17 -0700 Subject: Onegin et al. Message-ID: 6 April 2006 Dear Colleagues, John Pendergast has made some valuable observations on Chaikovsky's version of Onegin. I hope he will work up his Master's thesis for publication. He concludes: >beyond the interpretation one may glean directly from >Pushkin's words, at least one great interpreter of the work, >Tchaikovsky, seems to have sensed a familiar conflict between Onegin and >Lensky based on homosexual tensions. Is that because he himself had an >axe to grind? Perhaps, but the result is a work that resonates, is >immensely popular, and probably actually more familiar to most people >who THINK they know the REAL Onegin. > Agreed. But there is no "real" Onegin. We have all been constructing him for ourselves ever since Pushkin did. But some constructs are more interesting than others, and some constructs explain certain things better than others. Anthony Vanchu writes: >I know Lacan has perhaps even fewer adherents than Freud in Russian >literary studies, but I've generally found that his work can provide >significant insight (e.g., the concept of "the gaze," which would be >fruitful in the Onegin example). This, despite Lacan's all too >frequently opaque prose. > In the 1990s Lacanians were influential in getting psychoanalysis started up again in Russia, largely because they offered both pedagogical and financial support. Nowadays, however, the Lacanians have less influence among practicing psychoanalysts, who have learned to make a living utilizing both classical and more recent (object-relations, Kleinian, Kohutian, etc.) approaches. As for psychoanalysis (including Lacanian) in literary studies in Russia, it is still almost nil, although I do occasionally come across things which seem either vaguely Lacanian, slightly Freudian, or just generally pretty tame and/or opaque. Tatyana Buzina writes: >Of the possible signs of homosexuality, recaling dandyism which was discussed in such a lively way, Robert Lovelace is certainly very concerned with appearance, both his own and Clarissa's. His detailed description of Clarissa's dress is an example. He describes himself as a great expert on ladies' dresses as he helped so many ladies out of theirs. > >His womanizing which could admittedly be interpreted as overcompensating for his striving for his own sex is explained as revenge on women for his being spurned by a lady he had thought to be his while she had preferred him to some duke. His aim is to ruin as many as he can because he thinks they are not deserving of anything better. > Great "experts" on women's clothing are often gay or bisexual. The classic (Freudian) psychoanalytic explanation of Don Juanish behavior is that it affords indirect homosexual contact ('bridge effect') with the other men with whom all those women have sexual relations. More recent psychoanalytic theory focuses on the narcissism of the man who repeatedly needs to prove his worth by seducing as many women as possible. Evolutionary psychology emphasizes the potentially high payoff in offspring for promiscuous males as opposed to promiscuous females (some anthropologist found a high-status male somewhere in Africa with over 600 children; given the obvious biological limitations, no female could ever come close - it's somewhere in _Signs of the Flesh_; concealed ovulation in female humans [as opposed to other primates] might have evolved as a counterstrategy against such male promiscuity). With evolutionary psychology we are getting quite a distance from Onegin, But Elena Gapova did take the trouble to knock biology, saying that >The thing which exists in preundustrial sociaties (and even in the animal >world) is a "biological act", which happens because it is "technically >possible". > Not so. It happens because of natural (Darwinian) selection. Heterosexual acts occur because they result in offspring. Thus >(the institution of) normative >heterosexuality is the most fundamental one > - because it is the one of the various "imagined" possibilities which made our biological existence possible. Boys and girls and priests and Slavists imagine other possibilities, of course. But they sometimes also see them before their very eyes. How could a girl growing up in the country not observe certain biological things, such as > seeing dogs in the road and stallions in the field engaging in > homosexual activity - as Jules Levin observes. I thank Yevgeny Slivkin for his observations on Pushkin's explicit knowledge of homosexuality. Pushkin's interest in the subject was even more extensive than I had imagined (I think everybody knows the Vigel' joke, though). Edward Dumanis writes: >A famous contemporary Russian songwriter, Veronika Dolina, has a poem >where she portraits Sancho Panza as a woman who is in love with her >master. It's a wonderful song, however, I have not heard about anybody >thinking that this might be what was in Cervantes' subconsciousness. Or >was it? > First, the correct psychoanalytic term is "unconscious" ("subconscious" if you are a Jungian). Second, I say: if Veronika Dolina can imagine Sancho in love with Quixote, Tat'iana can imagine Onegin in love with Lenskii. Cheers, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Fri Apr 7 04:20:30 2006 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 00:20:30 -0400 Subject: Onegin et al. In-Reply-To: <4435A17D.7010500@comcast.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 Apr 2006, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: ......../snip/......... > Agreed. But there is no "real" Onegin. We have all been constructing > him for ourselves ever since Pushkin did. But some constructs are more > interesting than others, and some constructs explain certain things > better than others. The most interesting versions of the murder are not necessarily correct. However, it does not make them less interesting. Let's call the version of Onegin that Pushkin had correct by the definition. It does not mean that we ever know what that version was but we can utilize some methods of reconstruction which, we believe, will lead us closer to that correct version. Please keep in mind that it would not necessarily be an interesting version. On the other hand, there are might be some interesting versions but not necessarily correct ones. This is what I meant talking about the two different systems of literary reconstruction, and my plea was not to confuse them. > ................/snip/................ > > Edward Dumanis writes: > > >A famous contemporary Russian songwriter, Veronika Dolina, has a poem > >where she portraits Sancho Panza as a woman who is in love with her > >master. It's a wonderful song, however, I have not heard about anybody > >thinking that this might be what was in Cervantes' subconsciousness. Or > >was it? > > > First, the correct psychoanalytic term is "unconscious" ("subconscious" > if you are a Jungian). Second, I say: if Veronika Dolina can imagine > Sancho in love with Quixote, Tat'iana can imagine Onegin in love with > Lenskii. > Thank you for correcting me. I have no clue how this "-ness" went into my writing. However, I need to clarify my example with Dolina. She explicitly interpret Sancho as a woman in love with Quixote, not a man. It is an interesting interpretation of Tat'iana imagining Onegin in love with Lenskii. However, it does contradict to the duller reality of her upbringing. Nevertheless it it still interesting. We can certainly imagine such things happening. It would not be Pushkin's realism in that case but so what? It will be your or my Onegin but not Pushkin's. Does it matter or not? - it is a completely different story. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AKULIK at MSCC.HUJI.AC.IL Fri Apr 7 09:19:00 2006 From: AKULIK at MSCC.HUJI.AC.IL (=?windows-1251?Q?Alexander_Kulik?=) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 05:19:00 -0400 Subject: Bible Reception Again Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I am very grateful for the responses to my question on the reception of the Bible in Russia. However, I am afraid, I was not clear enough. I did not mean the history of the Bible translations and publishing, but rather its reception as reflected in modern (18th-20th cent.) literature, painting, music, etc. Did anyone try to accumulate representation of biblical images and motifs in these arts and to trace the origins of these images, etc., i.e., what goes back to the Russian Church traditions, what to Western mediators, etc. I know only the recent Kievan anthology on the Bible in Russian poetry. Is there anything else (studies, collections)? I will be gratefull for any hint. Best, Alexander Kulik Department of Russian and Slavic Studies Hebrew University of Jerusalem Mt. Scopus 91905 Israel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET Fri Apr 7 13:37:23 2006 From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 06:37:23 -0700 Subject: Programs in interpreting and translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I would like to recommend the program I'm currently enrolled in at Kent State University. Beyond the rigorous translation training it is largely free of the nastiness and ego battles that persuaded me not to pursue Slavics initially in 1993 when I got my B.A. There is a strong emphasis on cooperation between students and sharing information and resources, which ultimately produces a better result for everyone since none among us can know every possible nuance. Students are made aware of and encouraged to take advantage of a wide range of professional development activities from the very first weeks. Anyway, I'll be happy to take private questions as well. Best, Deborah > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2006 20:27:46 -0400 > From: Katie Janicka > Subject: Programs in interpreting and translation > > Dear colleagues, > > A student and friend of mine is looking for programs > that train students > in professional level Russian. She will be > graduating as Russian major in > a couple of weeks. She has a firm command of the > language already - she > took intensive Russian at college and spent a summer > and an academic year > in Russia on an ACTR program. She wants to be an > interpreter. She is > looking to study in a translation/interpreting > program at graduate level. > > I know that several translators regularly contribute > to discussion on > SEELANGS. Please, share your experiences, recommend > programs/schools, etc. > > The student's e-mail is: suzi.weygandt at gmail.com > This may also be of interest to others, so you could > reply to the list as > well. > > Your help will be greatly appreciated. > > Best, > Katie > > ****************** > Katie Janicka > Russian Department > Bryn Mawr College > ****************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tbuzina at yandex.ru Fri Apr 7 14:26:10 2006 From: tbuzina at yandex.ru (Tatyana Buzina) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 18:26:10 +0400 Subject: Onegin et al. In-Reply-To: <4435A17D.7010500@comcast.net> Message-ID: The >classic (Freudian) psychoanalytic explanation of Don Juanish behavior is >that it affords indirect homosexual contact ('bridge effect') with the >other men with whom all those women have sexual relations. If I understand this explanation correctly, then it's largely inapplicable to Lovelace for sheer technicality: he seems to have particularly enjoyed seducing virgins which effectively precludes any bridge effect. Or does it work forward, too? I mean, if Lovelace presumes Clarissa to go on whoring and offering her body to anybody willing, does having sex with her represent "virtual" sex with her future lovers? The later explanation concerning narcissism seems more appropriate but what kind of worth are we talking about? Richardson has Lovelace think that every woman is at heart a whore, and by seducing them, Lovelace proves it. Clarissa refutes his theory since for her, the loss of virtue equals the loss of life, and she dies a few months after being raped by Lovelace. Does proving woman's ultimate hunger for sex equal Lovelace's demonstrating his own sexual prowess time and again? Richardson strives for the spiritual explanation behind the carnal. Would it be fair to Richardson to turn the tables on him and posit the carnal as the ultimate explanation for the spiritual? I guess here I am going back to what Edward Dumanis repeatedly and justly wrote about different interpretations of literary texts and their relation to the authorial intention, however tentatively we might establish that. I would also join him in arguing that any approach is interesting and fruitful, as long as we remember which is which (for instance, if we read Vyacheslav Ivanov on Dostoevsky as first and foremost Vyacheslav Ivanov on Vyacheslav Ivanov). Regards, Tatyana ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU Fri Apr 7 15:37:34 2006 From: lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU (Laura Janda) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 11:37:34 -0400 Subject: Your invitation to the Slavic & East European Summer Institute Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, June 26-July 1 2006 are the dates for the 2006 premiere professional development opportunity for teachers of Slavic and East European Languages. Please consider joining us for this event, where you will hone your skills, share your expertise, and update your use of technology in the classroom. You will be our guests at the UNC-Chapel Hill and Duke U campuses. The institute itself is free (paid for by US Dept of Education Title VI funds), and for a limited number of participants, we can offer paid accommodations and the opportunity to compete for travel stipends. You can find out more and get an application at our website: . The deadline is April 15. If you have any questions, feel free to address them to me or to Jeremy Pinkham (jpinkham at email.unc.edu). --laura janda ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ingunn.lunde at KRR.UIB.NO Fri Apr 7 16:09:36 2006 From: ingunn.lunde at KRR.UIB.NO (Ingunn Lunde) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 18:09:36 +0200 Subject: Professorship in Russian Linguistics Message-ID: Professorship in Russian Linguistics The Faculty of Arts, University of Bergen, Norway, invites applications for a full professorship/associate professorship in Russian Linguistics. Application deadline: 30 April 2006. Here's a link to more detailed information (in Norwegian only): http://melding.uib.no/doc/Ledige_stillinger/1143033410.html For further information, you may also contact the Head of Department, Professor Jostein Børtnes (jostein.bortnes at krr.uib.no) Best wishes, Ingunn Lunde ------------- Ingunn Lunde Dept of Russian Studies University of Bergen Øisteinsgate 3 N-5007 Bergen, Norway Tel. (+47) 55 58 20 17 Fax: (+47) 55 58 91 91 e-mail: Ingunn.Lunde at krr.uib.no http://www.hf.uib.no/i/russisk/landslide/ingunn.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jack.kollmann at STANFORD.EDU Fri Apr 7 17:38:35 2006 From: jack.kollmann at STANFORD.EDU (Jack Kollmann) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 10:38:35 -0700 Subject: Bible Reception Again In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A small contribution to a response: The State Russian Museum had a large exhibition a few years ago entitled "Jesus Christ in Christian Art and Culture, 14th to 20th Centuries." The handsome illustrated exhibit catalog of the same name was published in 2000 by the Museum and Palace Editions. Russian ISBN 593332021; International (English?) ISBN 3930775891. Large format, about 525 pages. The exhibit and the catalog are organized by themes (e.g., the face of Christ in Russian icons) and, most interesting, by events in Christ's life. So, for a given event -- nativity, baptism, etc. -- one encounters images from icons to modern art grouped together. Jack Kollmann At 02:19 AM 4/7/2006, you wrote: >Dear colleagues, > >I am very grateful for the responses to my question on the reception of >the Bible in Russia. However, I am afraid, I was not clear enough. I did >not mean the history of the Bible translations and publishing, but rather >its reception as reflected in modern (18th-20th cent.) literature, >painting, music, etc. Did anyone try to accumulate representation of >biblical images and motifs in these arts and to trace the origins of these >images, etc., i.e., what goes back to the Russian Church traditions, what >to Western mediators, etc. I know only the recent Kievan anthology on the >Bible in Russian poetry. Is there anything else (studies, collections)? I >will be gratefull for any hint. > >Best, > >Alexander Kulik >Department of Russian and Slavic Studies >Hebrew University of Jerusalem >Mt. Scopus 91905 Israel > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ARMSTRON at GRINNELL.EDU Fri Apr 7 19:16:43 2006 From: ARMSTRON at GRINNELL.EDU (Armstrong, Todd) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 14:16:43 -0500 Subject: Central European Films Message-ID: Colleagues, A student is analyzing two Central European films, and is trying to find out about critical responses (both national and international) at the time of their screenings. The two films in question are Love Film (1970) by Istvan Szabo (Szerelmesfilm) and The Ear (1970) by Karel Kachyna, (Ucho). Any information in this regard would be greatly appreciated. Please respond to me off-list. Best wishes, Todd Armstrong Grinnell College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Lvisson at AOL.COM Sat Apr 8 00:09:33 2006 From: Lvisson at AOL.COM (Lvisson at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 20:09:33 -0400 Subject: Programs in interpreting and translation Message-ID: There is a 2-year program at GSTI (Graduate School of Translation and Interpretation) at MIIS (Monterey Institite of International Studies) leading to an MA, see website at www.miis.edu All programs are graduate level, provide good grounding in basics of translation and interpretation, Lynn Visson ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA Sat Apr 8 15:51:38 2006 From: natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA (Natalia Pylypiuk) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 09:51:38 -0600 Subject: Interview with Anne Appleabaum Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Anne Appleabum's *Gulag: A History* was recently translated into Ukrainian by Andrij Ishchenko and published by the Press of the Kyiv-Mohyla Academy (2006). Ms Applebaum came to Kyiv for the book launch and gave an interview to Dzerkalo tyzhnja. For the text of the interview (and review of the book), see the April 8-14 issue of Dzerkalo tyzhnja: http://www.zn.kiev.ua/nn/show/592/53056/ regards, ||||||||||||||||| Dr. Natalia Pylypiuk Modern Languages and Cultural Studies http://www.mlcs.ca 200 Arts, University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada T6G 2E6 voice mail: (780) 492-3498 Canadian Association of Slavists http://www.ualberta.ca/~csp/cas ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dgoldfar at BARNARD.EDU Sat Apr 8 17:56:04 2006 From: dgoldfar at BARNARD.EDU (David Goldfarb) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 13:56:04 -0400 Subject: Adam Zagajewski Conference, Univ. of Chicago, 28 April 2006 Message-ID: ADAM ZAGAJEWSKI: A TO Z AN INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON THE POET'S WORKS The University of Chicago Friday, 28 April 2006 Location: East Lounge at Ida Noyes Hall PROGRAM 9:00 - 9:30am Breakfast 9:30am Salutations by Dean Danielle Allen, University of Chicago Keynote address by Shrikanth ("Chicu") Reddy, University of Chicago 10:00am-12:00pm Panel I Moderator: Robert Bird, University of Chicago "'Powrot,' or Two Tales of Rip Van Winkle" David Goldfarb, Barnard College, New York City "Adam Zagajewski's `Frohliche Wissenshaft'" Pawel Kloczowski, Jagiellonian University, Cracow "Running Out of Time (and into the eternal, joyful moment)" Marta Napiorkowska, University of Chicago 12:00 - 1:00pm Lunch 1:00 - 3:30pm Panel II Moderator: Irena Grudzinska Gross, Boston University "Zagajewski, The Shabby & The Sublime" Robert Boyers, Skidmore College, Saratoga Springs "Adam Zagajewski, a Poet of Aesthetic Criterion" Marek Zaleski, Polish Academy of Sciences and Letters, Warsaw "Dutch Painters: The Metaphysical Matter of Adam Zagajewski" Clare Cavanagh, Northwestern University, Evanston "Mysticism and Mist of Words: Poetry and Religious Longing" Artur Grabowski, University of Illinois at Chicago 3:30-4:00pm Coffee break 4:00 - 6:30pm Panel III Moderator: Lina Steiner, University of Chicago "The Skeptical Flaneur and Textual Krakow: Reading the Streets in Zagajewski's 'Powrot'" Karen Kovacik, Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles: Modes and Metaphors of Motion in the Poetry of Adam Zagajewski" Kris Van Heuckelom, Catholic University at Leuven, Belgium "Ideology of Furniture" Bozena Shallcross, University of Chicago "The Surprising Space of Simile in Adam Zagajewski's Poetry" Magdalena Kay, University of California at Berkeley 6:30-7:00pm Conclusions The conference is sponsored by the Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures, Franke Institute for the Humanities, CEERES, and the Program on Poetry and Poetics. Conference organizer: Bozena Shallcross (with the assistance of Meredith Clason and Steve Lund) Ida Noyes Hall is located at 1212 E. 59th Street. East Lounge is on 2nd floor. Persons with disability please call 773.702.3418. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mayweed at GMAIL.COM Sat Apr 8 18:47:32 2006 From: mayweed at GMAIL.COM (Andrey Belov) Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2006 22:47:32 +0400 Subject: Audio recordings on Tjutcheviana Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, On our Tjutchev's site is opened a new section, where you can find executions of Tyutchev's poems presented in mp3. Most of them are made by known actors, such as I. Smoktunovskij, A. Kutepov, M. Kozakov, A. Smirnov etc. At the moment there are 89 records of reading and 3 - of romances: "Vesennije vody", "Den' i noch", "Ya vstretil Vas...". Link: http://ruthenia.ru/tiutcheviana/stihi/stihi.html Best wishes Andrey Belov ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at COX.NET Sun Apr 9 19:18:57 2006 From: asred at COX.NET (Steve Marder) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 15:18:57 -0400 Subject: - Message-ID: Can anyone come up with a convincing equivalent in English for материально-техническая база (material’no-tekhnicheskaya baza)? (Please: NOT “material and technical base (or: basis)”!) Steve Marder ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ahenderson at polyglot.fsbusiness.co.uk Sun Apr 9 19:26:47 2006 From: ahenderson at polyglot.fsbusiness.co.uk (Adam Henderson) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:26:47 +0100 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=AC=C3=A0=C3=B2=C3=A5=C3=B0=C3=A8=C3=A0=C3=AB=C3=BC=C3=AD=C3=AE-=C3=B2_=C3=A5=C3=B5=C3=AD=C3=A8=C3=B7=C3=A5=C3=B1=C3=AA=C3=A0=C3=BF_=C3=A1=C3=A0=C3=A7=C3=A0?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Steve, What's your context? Adam. -------------------------- Adam Henderson BA DipTransIoL MCIL Translator French, Russian & Spanish > English E: ahenderson at polyglot.fsbusiness.co.uk T: +44 (0)115 9787886 M: 07761 779376 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Steve Marder Sent: 09 April 2006 20:19 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] ìàòåðèàëüíî-òåõíè÷åñêàÿ áàçà Can anyone come up with a convincing equivalent in English for материально-техническая база (material’no-tekhnicheskaya baza)? (Please: NOT “material and technical base (or: basis)”!) Steve Marder ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 - Release Date: 06/04/2006 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.3.5/303 - Release Date: 06/04/2006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Sun Apr 9 19:38:34 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 12:38:34 -0700 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD-=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD_=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Isn't it logistics? I think that at least sometimes it is logistics. But maybe I am wrong... Steve Marder wrote: Can anyone come up with a convincing equivalent in English for материально-Ñ‚ÐµÑ Ð½Ð¸Ñ‡ÐµÑÐºÐ°Ñ база (material’no-tekhnicheskaya baza)? (Please: NOT “material and technical base (or: basis)”!) Steve Marder ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jozio at YAHOO.COM Sun Apr 9 21:24:46 2006 From: jozio at YAHOO.COM (Jozef Filipiak) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 14:24:46 -0700 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD-=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD_=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD=EF=BF=BD?= In-Reply-To: <20060409193834.8131.qmail@web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Infrastructure? --- Maryna Vinarska wrote: > Isn't it logistics? I think that at least sometimes > it is logistics. But maybe I am wrong... > > Steve Marder wrote: Can anyone come > up with a convincing equivalent in English for > материально-Ñ‚ÐµÑ Ð½Ð¸Ñ‡ÐµÑÐºÐ°Ñ > база (material’no-tekhnicheskaya baza)? > (Please: NOT > “material and technical base (or: basis)”!) > > Steve Marder > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for > ridiculously low rates. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Mon Apr 10 00:34:49 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:34:49 -0700 Subject: Detectability of Onegin's latent homosexuality, Martha Fiennes and my "A" In-Reply-To: <442CA2F8.7060306@comcast.net> Message-ID: Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: These comments, it seems to me, demonstrate that Onegin's latent homosexuality - or his gayness, if you prefer - is detectable even by non-psychoanalysts. ...............I wouldn't be so sure that his latent homosexuality is really so detectable. Some years ago I took a class exactly on Evgenij Onegin in one American university... I am puzzled... I didn't miss any class. However, I don't remember smb to come up with this, I would say, extremely extravagant idea, either any of my classmates or our professor. I can't recall even a hint or smth. I don't know... maybe my sexually underdevelopped mind missed it somehow, was not able to perceive, apprehend, grasp it... I asked a friend of mine about that. She was in the same class. She said she is probably sexually underdevelopped as well... Martha Fiennes was not among my classmates, but it seems she belongs to our club anyway... By the way, my transcript says I got an A... How come? I didn't even approach that insight into the REAL Onegin... Regards, Maryna Vinarska P.S. I am wondering how Onegin may look like in the next screen version. Lipsticked? Although, to tell the truth, I am much more concerned about the next screen version of Gogolian NOS... --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Mon Apr 10 00:42:41 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 17:42:41 -0700 Subject: Did Onegin row for Cambridge? In-Reply-To: <1144139683.8750333cJ.Dunn@slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: John Dunn wrote: did the writer use this obscure term in deliberate imitation of the English, or was it perhaps an attempt to avoid any possibly unwanted assocations that might arise from a description of the Cambridge rowing eight as голÑ�бÑ�е [golubye]? ------------------------------------------------------------------------ I am sure it is the second. "Svetlo-sinij" is nonsense. No one says like this. Sure, it must be "golubye". Sure, it was an attempt to avoid unwanted associations. All those efforts to implant "Golubaia kul'tura" into our lives after the beginning of perestroika were so rude, aggressive and overwhelming that they were doomed to failure. With our people it is always like this: the harder you try to impose smth against our wish, the less result you'll get. Or you'll get directly the opposite result. It is still considered to be a medical condition like any other you may be born with, diabitis or heart failure, or whatever. Actually, the general attitude to homosexuality is, to my mind, like it used to be at Pushkin's time: "What was Pushkin's perspective on homosexuality? It was humorous and ironic as it was among heterosexual educated men of the period" (Yevgeny Slivkin). I would say that it's still like this in most cases. So if you don't want smb to make any joke, it's better to avoid the word "goluboi" referring to men. Say "svetlo-sinij" to be on the safe side... ;-) Regards, Maryna Vinarska --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lesya.mcminn at GMAIL.COM Mon Apr 10 03:31:22 2006 From: lesya.mcminn at GMAIL.COM (Lesya McMinn) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 20:31:22 -0700 Subject: Ukrainian Translation for "Click" Message-ID: Does anyone out there know a good Ukrainian translation of "click" (as a noun used in computer terminology - Pay-per-click advertising, click-through, "Your dream vacation is only a few clicks away") There is the Russian noun shelchok (verb shyolkat). And there is a Ukrainian verb "klatsnuty" but as far as I know there is no comparable noun ("klats" would sound a bit odd, though I have seen it used in the Google Ukrainian localization) Thanks for any help you can give me! Lesya ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From herrington.matthew at GMAIL.COM Mon Apr 10 06:25:50 2006 From: herrington.matthew at GMAIL.COM (Matthew Herrington) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 02:25:50 -0400 Subject: Detectability of Onegin's latent homosexuality, Martha Fiennes and my "A" In-Reply-To: <20060410003449.68993.qmail@web30807.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Maryna, Are you so completely "sexually underdevelopped" that you equate homosexuality with transvestitism, or are you just trying to be offensive? Despite what you may have learned in you class on EO, Pushkin clearly makes Onegin a bit of a dandy. With dandyism comes lots of associations and sexual ambiguity is among them. That said, it does seem quite heavy-handed (and pointless) to refer to a fictional character's "latent homosexuality"; acknowledging the ambiguity and addressing the multiple levels of sexual attraction that may or may not be discerned in the text seems sufficient. Matthew Herrington PS- And to answer your question, I don't know how come you got an A. On 4/9/06, Maryna Vinarska wrote: > > Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: > These comments, it seems to me, demonstrate that Onegin's latent > homosexuality - or his gayness, if you prefer - is detectable even by > non-psychoanalysts. > > ...............I wouldn't be so sure that his latent homosexuality is > really so detectable. > Some years ago I took a class exactly on Evgenij Onegin in one American > university... I am puzzled... I didn't miss any class. However, I don't > remember smb to come up with this, I would say, extremely extravagant idea, > either any of my classmates or our professor. I can't recall even a hint or > smth. I don't know... maybe my sexually underdevelopped mind missed it > somehow, was not able to perceive, apprehend, grasp it... > I asked a friend of mine about that. She was in the same class. She said > she is probably sexually underdevelopped as well... Martha Fiennes was not > among my classmates, but it seems she belongs to our club anyway... > By the way, my transcript says I got an A... How come? I didn't even > approach that insight into the REAL Onegin... > > Regards, > Maryna Vinarska > > P.S. I am wondering how Onegin may look like in the next screen version. > Lipsticked? > Although, to tell the truth, I am much more concerned about the next > screen version of Gogolian NOS... > > > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call > rates. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Mon Apr 10 08:34:35 2006 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:34:35 +0100 Subject: podkidnoy durak Message-ID: Dear all, This card game figures at least twice in Vasily Grossman’s last rasskazy. A sentence in the story ‘V Kislovodske’ begins, Легкораненые играли в подкидного дурака, крутили любовь с пожилыми сестрами.... (Legkoranenye igrali v podkidnogo duraka, krutili lyubov’ s pozhilymi sestrami...) Any suggestions as to how I should translate this? The game is not going to be mentioned again in this particular story. Thanks in advance — and best wishes, Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Mon Apr 10 12:56:44 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 05:56:44 -0700 Subject: Ukrainian Translation for "Click" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It's one of my native languages, but I have never heard any equivalent as a noun. I suppose that the English word "click" will be adopted sooner or later like it happened to many other English words. Paraphrase depending on what you have in English. Write smth like "Vidpustka vashoji mriji lyshe za myt' vid vas. Nam dosyt' lyshe natysnuty myshkoju." "Odyn natysk myshkoju, i vashi problemy polagodzheno." So maybe it's "natysk". But I am not sure. "Klaznit' myshkoju"... Why not? But NOT "odyn klaz"... But I can't figure out how "pay-per-click" may look like in Ukrainian. Never payed any attention to all those adds around me. I suppose it is always in English. MV Lesya McMinn wrote: Does anyone out there know a good Ukrainian translation of "click" (as a noun used in computer terminology - Pay-per-click advertising, click-through, "Your dream vacation is only a few clicks away") There is the Russian noun shelchok (verb shyolkat). And there is a Ukrainian verb "klatsnuty" but as far as I know there is no comparable noun ("klats" would sound a bit odd, though I have seen it used in the Google Ukrainian localization) Thanks for any help you can give me! Lesya ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jbyrd01 at EMORY.EDU Mon Apr 10 13:57:56 2006 From: jbyrd01 at EMORY.EDU (Jerald Byrd) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 09:57:56 -0400 Subject: Emory U position Message-ID: The Department of Russian and East Asian Languages and Cultures, Emory University, invites applications for an anticipated full-time Lecturer position in Russian language instruction contingent upon funding for the 2006/07 academic year. Applicants should hold at least an ABD in Russian language or linguistics or a closely related area and possess native or near-native proficiency in Russian as well as fluency in English in addition to college teaching experience. Teaching duties include five Russian language courses at various levels per year. Familiarity with computer-assisted language instruction and other technology in language teaching is highly desirable. Review of applications will start on May 1, 2006 and continue until the position is filled. Interested candidates should send a letter of application, a vita, a lesson plan, three letters of reference, and recent teaching evaluations to: Maria Lunk, Department of Russian and East Asian Languages and Cultures, Emory University, 1707 North Decatur Road, Atlanta, GA 30322. Emory University is an EO/AA Employer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Mon Apr 10 14:33:25 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 07:33:25 -0700 Subject: Detectability of Onegin's latent homosexuality, Martha Fiennes and my "A" In-Reply-To: <143408770604092325n2f57d14nb67ad9e9ce75915d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Matthew, I am ready to accept an accusation of being underdevelopped in any way. I have no inferiority complex. Besides, during the last two years I was accused of so many things, including indoctrination, questioning the legitimacy of teacher training in Germany, etc., etc., etc., that I am ready to accept whatever new accusation. Don't care any more. Really. But I didn't try to be offensive. No way. I am the most friendly person in the world. I was kidding. I am always like this. Can't help it. Sorry! And I have absolutely nothing against psychoanalysis. On the contrary. I am going to study it. But I do think that it is better not to touch some characters at all. When meeting the decision of starting to psychoanalyse this or that character, and then making those revelations public, everybody should consider too many things, and not only personal ambitions. Etika dolzhna byt' oboiudnoi. Ot russkoi klassiki uzhe kamnia na kamne s etim psikhoanalizom ne ostavili. And what are all those discoveries?.. Although, to tell the truth, I don't want Hamlet to be psychoanalysed as well. Why? Probably because this is exactly the character which can be compared to Onegin "po znachimosti" for those to whom this legacy belongs. Although I think that they both belong to the world culture. Besides, I have a feeling that there are, unfortunately, too many other factors or forces which will be trying to make everything plain, analyzable, explicable and, therefore, controllable in our future. I am afraid that exclusively psychoanalysis or any other similar tool will be promoted in future, and not other research tools, mentioned during this discussion.Other research tools require too much factual knowledge from the areas, acquiring the knowledge from which has, actually, became a taboo nowadays. I mean high education. The very factual knowledge became a taboo. Well, those were some "mysli vslukh". So sorry, I will try to be serious all the time. :-( And I will try not to think about how Gogolian Nos is supposed to look like in a screen version... :-( Regards, Maryna Vinarska P.S. I liked my class on Onegin and I liked all the classes I took. Especially because it was permitted for everybody to say whatever they wanted. No one said after class: "Hoeren Sie auf zu kritisieren!". :-( But I think, that as to that Freudian approach, I was a little bit overdosed in the USA, to tell the truth... But I liked it anyway. --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From townsend at PRINCETON.EDU Mon Apr 10 15:19:09 2006 From: townsend at PRINCETON.EDU (Charles Townsend) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:19:09 -0400 Subject: Emory U position In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Apr 10, 2006, at 9:57 AM, Jerald Byrd wrote: > The Department of Russian and East Asian Languages and Cultures, Emory > University, invites > applications for an anticipated full-time Lecturer position in Russian > language instruction > contingent upon funding for the 2006/07 academic year. Applicants > should hold at least an ABD > in Russian language or linguistics or a closely related area and > possess native or near-native > proficiency in Russian as well as fluency in English in addition to > college teaching experience. > Teaching duties include five Russian language courses at various > levels per year. Familiarity with > computer-assisted language instruction and other technology in > language teaching is highly > desirable. Review of applications will start on May 1, 2006 and > continue until the position is filled. > Interested candidates should send a letter of application, a vita, a > lesson plan, three letters of > reference, and recent teaching evaluations to: Maria Lunk, Department > of Russian and East Asian > Languages and Cultures, Emory University, 1707 North Decatur Road, > Atlanta, GA 30322. Emory > University is an EO/AA Employer. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon Apr 10 15:33:28 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:33:28 -0400 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=BC=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B0=D0=BB=D1=8C=D0=BD=D0=BE-=D1=82=D0=B5=D1=85=D0=BD_=D0=B8=D1=87=D0=B5=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B0=D1=8F_=D0=B1=D0=B0=D0=B7=D0=B0?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve Marder wrote: > Can anyone come up with a convincing equivalent in English for > материально-техническая база (material’no-tekhnicheskaya baza)? > (Please: NOT “material and technical base (or: basis)”!) I've mostly seen "infrastructure" (already suggested) in the better translations, and I agree with it. In a military context, the related term материально-техническое снабжение (МТС) would be "logistical support." P.S. In general, anything beyond the original 127 characters of low ASCII in the subject line of an email is asking for trouble -- some email programs are fine with it, and some turn it to hash, and some mail servers also turn it to hash even if both users' programs are fine with it. So you should generally transliterate or omit accented characters. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU Mon Apr 10 15:35:32 2006 From: lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU (Laura Janda) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 11:35:32 -0400 Subject: SLS abstracts -- can be submitted in ANY Slavic language or English Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I just heard through the grapevine that some people out there are wondering whether abstracts can be submitted in Russian and other languages. My answer is an emphatic YES. Please feel free to write your abstracts in Russian, Polish, Czech, Bulgarian -- any Slavic language or English. I'm looking forward to receiving your abstracts! --laura janda **********************FIRST CALL FOR PAPERS************************ INAUGURAL MEETING of the Slavic Linguistics Society Where: Indiana University, Bloomington, Indiana, USA When: September 8-10, 2006 Address for all correspondence: sls2006 at unc.edu ANNOUNCEMENT: We invite you to submit an abstract to the first meeting of the Slavic Linguistics Society on the campus of Indiana University, September 8-10, 2006. Keynote speakers are: Östen Dahl (Stockholm University) Ronald Feldstein (Indiana University) Barbara Partee (University of Massachusetts at Amherst) The goal is to create a conference that will support our field by being as inclusive as possible. Papers dealing with any aspect of Slavic linguistics and within any framework are appropriate, as well as those that represent cross-disciplinary approaches (sociolinguistics, computational linguistics, language acquisition, etc.). The only restriction is that all papers should address an issue pertaining to Slavic linguistics. All talks will be for 20 minutes, plus 10 minutes for discussion. This is an historic event, at which future directions for the Slavic Linguistics Society will be resolved. We encourage all to participate and ask you to share this announcement with as many colleagues and students as possible. DEADLINE FOR SUBMISSION OF ABSTRACTS: April 15, 2006 CONFERENCE WEBPAGE: http://www.unc.edu/~lajanda/sls2006.html GUIDELINES FOR SUBMISSION OF ABSTRACTS: Please send your abstract to sls2006 at unc.edu by April 15, 2006. Your abstract should: Be sent as an attachment Be sent in both MicrosoftWord (.doc) and pdf formats Contain no more than 500 words Contain only Unicode fonts, if at all possible As appropriate, identify the framework, describe the methodology, explain how data will be analyzed – in other words, please be as concrete and specific as possible in describing your paper. All abstracts will be refereed and participants should be notified by mid-May 2006. We look forward to hearing from you! —Laura Janda (for the SLS conference committee) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From n-tyurina at NORTHWESTERN.EDU Mon Apr 10 16:25:36 2006 From: n-tyurina at NORTHWESTERN.EDU (Nina Tyurina) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:25:36 +0000 Subject: audio resources online? Message-ID: An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available URL: From mdenner at STETSON.EDU Mon Apr 10 16:40:09 2006 From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU (Michael Denner) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 12:40:09 -0400 Subject: =?koi8-r?Q?=CD=C1=D4=C5=D2=C9=C1=CC=D8=CE=CF-=D4=C5=C8=CE_=C9=DE=C5=D3=CB=C1=D1_=C2=C1=DA=C1?= Message-ID: So, Paul, I have to ask: Why did Steve's _original_ subject line come across on my mail program (Outlook) as "hash" [which word, by the way, to my Midwestern ear connotes nothing but wholesome goodness, but we'll leave that dog lie sleeping], but in your RE his (quoted) subject came through as Cyrillic? Did Steve's message subject appear as hash or Cyrillic for you, when you received it? Did you re-enter the subject line? What explains that the response to his message was correctly encoded when his original came through mangled? I never know when to type a subject line in Cyrillic, so usually I just transcribe it, but I HATE transliteration (as anyone who has read the stylesheet to the Tolstoy Studies Journal knows). As soon as I think I have Unicode and ASCII figured out, I'm confronted with another mystery or miracle. Best, mad ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Dr. Michael A. Denner Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal Director, University Honors Program Contact Information: Russian Studies Program Stetson University Campus Box 8361 DeLand, FL 32720-3756 386.822.7381 (department) 386.822.7265 (direct line) 386.822.7380 (fax) www.stetson.edu/~mdenner -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 11:33 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] материально-техн ическая база Steve Marder wrote: > Can anyone come up with a convincing equivalent in English for > материально-техническая база (material'no-tekhnicheskaya baza)? > (Please: NOT "material and technical base (or: basis)"!) I've mostly seen "infrastructure" (already suggested) in the better translations, and I agree with it. In a military context, the related term материально-техническое снабжение (МТС) would be "logistical support." P.S. In general, anything beyond the original 127 characters of low ASCII in the subject line of an email is asking for trouble -- some email programs are fine with it, and some turn it to hash, and some mail servers also turn it to hash even if both users' programs are fine with it. So you should generally transliterate or omit accented characters. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yvj2p at VIRGINIA.EDU Mon Apr 10 17:06:11 2006 From: yvj2p at VIRGINIA.EDU (Katya Jordan) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 13:06:11 -0400 Subject: audio resources online? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Nina, Please visit http://www.priviet.com The company name is sort of cutesy, but the quality is good. It is based in Liverpool and it offers numerous audio books -- prose and poetry, fiction and philosophy -- read by Russian actors. The one drawback is that you can only purchase them in the MP3 format. Katya Jordan University of Virginia On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:25:36 +0000 Nina Tyurina wrote: > Reply-To: n-tyurina at northwestern.edu > Message-Id: <20060410162536.9335221 at lulu.it.northwestern.edu> > > Dear colleagues, > > My query is inspired by the wonderful Tiutcheviana resource. Can you >recommend any other audio > recordings of Russian poetry, or prose, available online? > > Your contributions are greatly appreciated! > > All the best, > Nina Tyurina-Wieda > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nevmenandr at GMAIL.COM Mon Apr 10 17:49:05 2006 From: nevmenandr at GMAIL.COM (=?KOI8-R?B?4s/SydMg79LFyM/X?=) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 23:49:05 +0600 Subject: audio resources online? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Nina! You may overview this link: http://max.mmlc.northwestern.edu/~mdenner/Demo/listening2.htm You can find Tiutchev there also, but very few :) As for other authers, the list is long. 2006/4/10, Nina Tyurina : > Reply-To: n-tyurina at northwestern.edu > Message-Id: <20060410162536.9335221 at lulu.it.northwestern.edu> > > Dear colleagues, > > My query is inspired by the wonderful Tiutcheviana resource. Can you recommend any other audio > recordings of Russian poetry, or prose, available online? > > Your contributions are greatly appreciated! > > All the best, > Nina Tyurina-Wieda > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Всего доброго, Борис Орехов From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon Apr 10 18:34:21 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:34:21 -0400 Subject: =?KOI8-R?Q?=CD=C1=D4=C5=D2=C9=C1=CC=D8=CE=CF-=D4=C5_=C8=CE=C9=DE=C5=D3=CB=C1=D1_=C2=C1=DA=C1?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Michael Denner wrote: > So, Paul, I have to ask: Why did Steve's _original_ subject line come > across on my mail program (Outlook) as "hash" [which word, by the > way, to my Midwestern ear connotes nothing but wholesome goodness, > but we'll leave that dog lie sleeping], but in your RE his (quoted) > subject came through as Cyrillic? Did Steve's message subject appear > as hash or Cyrillic for you, when you received it? Did you re-enter > the subject line? What explains that the response to his message was > correctly encoded when his original came through mangled? When Steve's original message arrived here, Mozilla 1.7.11 displayed the subject line correctly. Apparently it complied enough with the W3C rules, so Mozilla could interpret it. For those who are curious, his program sent the following code (indents and line breaks are mine): Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" ... Subject: [SEELANGS] =?windows-1251?Q?=EC=E0=F2=E5=F0=E8=E0=EB=FC=ED=EE- =F2=E5=F5=ED=E8=F7=E5=F1=EA=E0=FF_=E1=E0=E7=E0?= and Mozilla converted that to human-readable form. However, when I clicked "Reply," the subject came out: Subject: [SEELANGS] where "" represents a single character -- a white question mark in a black diamond. I suspect the problem was the mismatch between Windows-1251 encoding of the subject and Unicode (UTF-8) encoding of the message body; I'm not enough of an expert to say for sure. I *can* say as a user, however, that if I manually select the encoding for a message with such a mismatch, Mozilla follows orders and displays both subject and body in the same encoding, turning one or the other to hash. At any rate, when I saw the garbled subject line as I was composing my reply, I went back to his message, clicked and dragged over the subject line, and copy/pasted into my reply. This produced the same display on my machine, but a different underlying code: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed ... Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=BC=D0=B0=D1=82=D0=B5=D1=80=D0=B8=D0=B0=D0 =BB=D1=8C=D0=BD=D0=BE-=D1=82=D0=B5=D1=85=D0=BD_=D0=B8=D1 =87=D0=B5=D1=81=D0=BA=D0=B0=D1=8F_=D0=B1=D0=B0=D0=B7=D0=B0?= As you can see, both the subject and the message body are now in Unicode. Finally, your MS Exchange sent both subject and body in KOI8-R, and that also works for my Mozilla: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" ... Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] =?koi8-r?Q?=CD=C1=D4=C5=D2=C9=C1=CC =D8=CE=CF-=D4=C5=C8=CE_=C9=DE=C5=D3=CB=C1=D1_=C2=C1=DA=C1?= Mozilla recognizes your encoding and will send this reply in KOI8-R. I hope that works, too. > I never know when to type a subject line in Cyrillic, so usually I > just transcribe it, but I HATE transliteration (as anyone who has > read the stylesheet to the Tolstoy Studies Journal knows). Mm-hm. In my case, I was pleasantly surprised that it had come through, so I went ahead and tried it in my reply. > As soon as I think I have Unicode and ASCII figured out, I'm > confronted with another mystery or miracle. Mm-hm. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Mon Apr 10 18:48:21 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:48:21 -0400 Subject: Detectability of Onegin's latent homosexuality, Martha Fiennes and my A Message-ID: Why is it that most people on this List seem to forget that being a Dandy in that Period was the "in-thing", it was the height of fashion and all well-born men did their best to demonstrate their status in life by being well-turned out.... There is a difference between a Dandy and a Pansy. Beau Brummel (the singer now living in SA running a nudist colony) is being blamed for being overtly heterosexual, although he modelled himself on the real Beau Brummel. Just look at the costume dramas, historic films, the recently released Casanova, Hamlet in tights, the Roman/Grecian/Trojan heroes, men in skirts and sandals with a sword....Please don't start telling me that ALL our male literary heroes are 'gay'.... They are not here to defend their 'honour' or challenge you to a duel. Vera Beljakova Johannesburg Original Message: ----------------- From: Matthew Herrington herrington.matthew at GMAIL.COM Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 02:25:50 -0400 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Detectability of Onegin's latent homosexuality, Martha Fiennes and my "A" Dear Maryna, Are you so completely "sexually underdevelopped" that you equate homosexuality with transvestitism, or are you just trying to be offensive? Despite what you may have learned in you class on EO, Pushkin clearly makes Onegin a bit of a dandy. With dandyism comes lots of associations and sexual ambiguity is among them. That said, it does seem quite heavy-handed (and pointless) to refer to a fictional character's "latent homosexuality"; acknowledging the ambiguity and addressing the multiple levels of sexual attraction that may or may not be discerned in the text seems sufficient. Matthew Herrington PS- And to answer your question, I don't know how come you got an A. On 4/9/06, Maryna Vinarska wrote: > > Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: > These comments, it seems to me, demonstrate that Onegin's latent > homosexuality - or his gayness, if you prefer - is detectable even by > non-psychoanalysts. > > ...............I wouldn't be so sure that his latent homosexuality is > really so detectable. > Some years ago I took a class exactly on Evgenij Onegin in one American > university... I am puzzled... I didn't miss any class. However, I don't > remember smb to come up with this, I would say, extremely extravagant idea, > either any of my classmates or our professor. I can't recall even a hint or > smth. I don't know... maybe my sexually underdevelopped mind missed it > somehow, was not able to perceive, apprehend, grasp it... > I asked a friend of mine about that. She was in the same class. She said > she is probably sexually underdevelopped as well... Martha Fiennes was not > among my classmates, but it seems she belongs to our club anyway... > By the way, my transcript says I got an A... How come? I didn't even > approach that insight into the REAL Onegin... > > Regards, > Maryna Vinarska > > P.S. I am wondering how Onegin may look like in the next screen version. > Lipsticked? > Although, to tell the truth, I am much more concerned about the next > screen version of Gogolian NOS... > > > > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call > rates. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU Mon Apr 10 19:15:15 2006 From: s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU (Prof Steven P Hill) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:15:15 -0500 Subject: code in a few messages? Message-ID: Dear colleagues: In the past couple of days on my poor old computer, a few messages posted on SEELANGS are appearing in an indecipherable code. But most messages are appearing completely legibly. And I should add that for many, many months now, if memory serves, every single message on SEELANGS has appeared legibly. -- UNTIL, that is, the past couple of days, when a few messages were displayed in "code." E.g., In today's 14 total messages, the 3 "coded" messages come from Paul Gallagher [2] and Michael Denning [1] -- attached below, from SEELANGS "index.") Has anyone else noticed these occasional "coded" messages popping up on SEELANGS in the past few days? (But none previously, for a very long time)? Sincerely, Steven P Hill, University of Illinois. __ __ __ __ __ __ __ Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:49:13 From: SEELANGS automatic digest system Subject: SEELANGS Index - 9 Apr 2006 to 10 Apr 2006 - Special issue (#2006-129) To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Index Date Size Poster and subject 025051 04/10 32 From: "Paul B. Gallagher" Subject: Re: маÑ.еÑ.иалÑ.но-Ñ.еÑ.н иÑ.еÑ.каÑ. база 025054 04/10 83 From: Michael Denner Subject: Re: ÍÁÔÅÒÉÁÌØÎÏ-ÔÅÈÎ ÉÞÅÓËÁÑ ÂÁÚÁ 025057 04/10 79 From: "Paul B. Gallagher" Subject: Re: ÍÁÔÅÒÉÁÌØÎÏ-ÔÅ ÈÎÉÞÅÓËÁÑ ÂÁÚÁ __ __ __ _ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon Apr 10 20:31:50 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:31:50 -0400 Subject: code in a few messages? In-Reply-To: <6b075bf7.a6ec3641.86e1600@expms6.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Prof Steven P Hill wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > In the past couple of days on my poor old computer, a few messages > posted on SEELANGS are appearing in an indecipherable code. But > most messages are appearing completely legibly. And I should add > that for many, many months now, if memory serves, every single message > on SEELANGS has appeared legibly. -- UNTIL, that is, the past couple > of days, when a few messages were displayed in "code." E.g., In today's > 14 total messages, the 3 "coded" messages come from Paul Gallagher [2] > and Michael Denning [1] -- attached below, from SEELANGS "index.") > > Has anyone else noticed these occasional "coded" messages popping > up on SEELANGS in the past few days? (But none previously, for a very > long time)? Most people limit their subject lines to plain-vanilla ASCII for the reason you note -- there are still some legacy programs (even a few on mail servers!) that don't know how to deal with anything else. > Index Date Size Poster and subject > > 025051 04/10 32 From: "Paul B. Gallagher" > Subject: Re: маÑ.еÑ.иалÑ.но-Ñ.еÑ.н иÑ.еÑ.каÑ. > база This subject was in Unicode, which Webmail Mirapoint Direct 3.4.8-GR doesn't know how to interpret. It was in response to a message from Steve Marder, which should also have appeared as "code" because the subject line was in Windows-1251 encoding. > 025054 04/10 83 From: Michael Denner > Subject: Re: ÍÁÔÅÒÉÁÌØÎÏ-ÔÅÈÎ ÉÞÅÓËÁÑ ÂÁÚÁ > > 025057 04/10 79 From: "Paul B. Gallagher" > Subject: Re: ÍÁÔÅÒÉÁÌØÎÏ-ÔÅ ÈÎÉÞÅÓËÁÑ ÂÁÚÁ These two subjets were in KOI8-R, which Webmail Mirapoint Direct 3.4.8-GR doesn't know how to interpret. This is likely to happen more and more often as the older ASCII-only programs fade into extinction. I recommend you upgrade to a modern program (there are many good choices). The benefit will be that you can discuss Slavic subjects with other Slavophiles without having to resort to transcription, transliteration, or other distortions. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU Mon Apr 10 21:14:15 2006 From: s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU (Prof Steven P Hill) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:14:15 -0500 Subject: search for Russian synonyms Message-ID: Dear colleagues: One of our more senior colleagues, the famous sociologist Prof. John D. Rimberg (for short, he uses "John Rim"), asked me to post his query (below), after his own efforts to cope with SEELANGS' tricky enrollment procedures were not crowned with success. Glad to oblige. If feminine pulchritude is not the usual subject matter on this most highly respected, esteemed, and distinguished list-server (ahem), John Rim's query can provide us with a little change of pace. Replies can be addressed back to him ("Angel") or to this list-server.--Steven P Hill, Univ. of Illinois. __ __ __ __ _ __ __ __ __ __ _ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 09:49:45 From: John Rim Subject: Russian synonyms Please help me identify Russian words, especially contemporary words, that can express admiration for the female figure, female body, female attributes, female wiles, and female movement ("body English"), consistent with contemporary Russian cultural values. Have used full-figured [ polnaya ] and this apparently communicates well. Would like to have RUSSIAN EQUIVALENTS, in the same context, for such similar terms as: shapely, well-built, well-endowed, curvacious, fascinating, magnetic, hypnotic, spell-binding, seductive, appealing, feminine. Will you help with this semantic project of mine ? Hope so.-- John Rim. __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ __ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From art2t at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU Mon Apr 10 21:19:25 2006 From: art2t at CMS.MAIL.VIRGINIA.EDU (rachel stauffer) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:19:25 -0400 Subject: search for Russian synonyms In-Reply-To: <149b6f5a.a6f71b53.81c5a00@expms6.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Стройная (strojnaja) comes to mind for 'shapely' or 'svelte'. R. Stauffer University of Virginia On Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:14:15 -0500 Prof Steven P Hill wrote: >Dear colleagues: > >One of our more senior colleagues, the famous sociologist Prof. John >D. Rimberg (for short, he uses "John Rim"), asked me to post his query >(below), after his own efforts to cope with SEELANGS' tricky enrollment >procedures were not crowned with success. Glad to oblige. > >If feminine pulchritude is not the usual subject matter on this most >highly respected, esteemed, and distinguished list-server (ahem), >John Rim's query can provide us with a little change of pace. Replies >can be addressed back to him ("Angel") or to this list-server.--Steven >P Hill, Univ. of Illinois. >__ __ __ __ _ __ __ __ __ __ _ > >Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 09:49:45 >From: John Rim >Subject: Russian synonyms > >Please help me identify Russian words, especially contemporary >words, that can express admiration for the female figure, female >body, female attributes, female wiles, and female movement >("body English"), consistent with contemporary Russian cultural >values. > >Have used full-figured [ polnaya ] and this apparently communicates >well. > >Would like to have RUSSIAN EQUIVALENTS, in the same context, >for such similar terms as: >shapely, >well-built, >well-endowed, >curvacious, >fascinating, >magnetic, >hypnotic, >spell-binding, >seductive, >appealing, >feminine. > >Will you help with this semantic project of mine ? Hope so.-- John Rim. >__ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ __ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Mon Apr 10 21:35:44 2006 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:35:44 -0400 Subject: search for Russian synonyms In-Reply-To: <149b6f5a.a6f71b53.81c5a00@expms6.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Shapely - figuristaia well-built - statnaia well-endowed - pyshnogrudaia curvaceous - appetitnaia fascinating - voskhititel'naia magnetic - vlekushchaia (more assertive: neotrazimaia) hypnotic - maniashchaia spell-binding - charuiushchaia seductive - soblaznitel'naia appealing - privlekatel'naia (even: ocharovatel'naia) feminine - zhenstvennaia Will you help with this semantic project of mine ? Hope so.-- John Rim ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Mon Apr 10 21:45:33 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:45:33 -0700 Subject: search for Russian synonyms In-Reply-To: <149b6f5a.a6f71b53.81c5a00@expms6.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Prof Steven P Hill wrote: Would like to have RUSSIAN EQUIVALENTS, in the same context, for such similar terms as: shapely, --------------- figuristaja (colloquial) well-built, ------------------khorosho slozhena (Ona khorosho slozhena.) well-endowed,---------------------new word for me, but if it is what my dictionary says: "(informal, humourous) having large breasts", it is "grudastaja" (also colloq.) curvacious,------------------- figuristaja (colloq.) fascinating,-------------------obvorozhitel'naja, izumitel'naja magnetic,-------------------- magneticheskaja zhenshchina (not common, but used sometimes; however, use it with the noun, not alone) hypnotic,---------------- gipnoticheskaja zhenshchina (not very common, but probably because there are no so many such women...) spell-binding,--------------------- probably "gipnoticheskaja zhenshchina" again seductive,--------------------- soblaznitel'naja appealing, --------------------privlakatel'naja feminine.--------------------zhenstvennaja. Will you help with this semantic project of mine ? Hope so.-- John Rim. ................Come on! Tell us the truth! Are you in love?.. Good luck! Regards, MV --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From trubikhina at AOL.COM Mon Apr 10 21:49:06 2006 From: trubikhina at AOL.COM (Julia Trubikhina) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:49:06 -0400 Subject: search for Russian synonyms In-Reply-To: <149b6f5a.a6f71b53.81c5a00@expms6.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: shapely, ???????, ?????? ????????? (statnaia; khorosho slozhennaia) well-built, ? ??????? ??????? (s khoroshei figuroi) curvacious, ? ??????????? ??????? (s prekrasnymi formami) fascinating, ????????????, ??????????????? (plenitel'naia, obvorozhitel'naia) magnetic, ????????????? (pritiagivaiushchaia) hypnotic, ??????????, ?????????????? (pritiagivaiushchaia, zavorazhivaiushchaia) spell-binding, ??????????????, ?????????? (ocharovatel'naia, prelestnaia) seductive, ??????????????? (soblaznitel'naia) appealing, ??????????????? (privlekatel'naia) feminine. ??????????? (zhenstvennaia) well-endowed is the one that would be in a different stylistic "register" in Russian, unless it's just neutral: "with large breasts"--? ??????? ?????? (s bol'shoi grud'iu) Otherwise, ?????????, ??????? (grudastaia, iadrenaia) And of course there is a score of less and less "decent" epithets...:) --------------------- Julia Trubikhina Assistant Professor of Russian Russian Program Coordinator Department of Modern Languages and Literatures Montclair State University Dickson Hall, Room 138 Montclair, NJ 07043 -----Original Message----- From: Prof Steven P Hill To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Sent: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:14:15 -0500 Subject: [SEELANGS] search for Russian synonyms Dear colleagues: One of our more senior colleagues, the famous sociologist Prof. John D. Rimberg (for short, he uses "John Rim"), asked me to post his query (below), after his own efforts to cope with SEELANGS' tricky enrollment procedures were not crowned with success. Glad to oblige. If feminine pulchritude is not the usual subject matter on this most highly respected, esteemed, and distinguished list-server (ahem), John Rim's query can provide us with a little change of pace. Replies can be addressed back to him ("Angel") or to this list-server.--Steven P Hill, Univ. of Illinois. __ __ __ __ _ __ __ __ __ __ _ Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2006 09:49:45 From: John Rim Subject: Russian synonyms Please help me identify Russian words, especially contemporary words, that can express admiration for the female figure, female body, female attributes, female wiles, and female movement ("body English"), consistent with contemporary Russian cultural values. Have used full-figured [ polnaya ] and this apparently communicates well. Would like to have RUSSIAN EQUIVALENTS, in the same context, for such similar terms as: shapely, well-built, well-endowed, curvacious, fascinating, magnetic, hypnotic, spell-binding, seductive, appealing, feminine. Will you help with this semantic project of mine ? Hope so.-- John Rim. __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ __ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Mon Apr 10 21:55:23 2006 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:55:23 -0400 Subject: a bookish term for "well-endowed" In-Reply-To: <8C82AFFB992CA67-C8C-151E@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Ladies, I assure you, regardless of what the dictionary says, the term "pyshnogrudaia" (as well as "vysokogrudaia") is what has been used in high-brow literature, both native and translated from other languages. ~IC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From trubikhina at AOL.COM Mon Apr 10 21:59:31 2006 From: trubikhina at AOL.COM (Julia Trubikhina) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 17:59:31 -0400 Subject: Question: the Nabokov issue Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I must have misplaced the information on a peer-reviewed journal that was inviting submissions for its Nabokov issue. It was posted on SEELANGS some time ago. There was a deadline for submission: May 1st. Could somebody help me with the title of the journal and send me a link? Thanks, --------------------- Julia Trubikhina Assistant Professor of Russian Russian Program Coordinator Department of Modern Languages and Literatures Montclair State University Dickson Hall, Room 138 Montclair, NJ 07043 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yfurman at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Mon Apr 10 22:11:00 2006 From: yfurman at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Furman, Yelena) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 15:11:00 -0700 Subject: Question: the Nabokov issue Message-ID: Dear Julia, Here is the message. Best, Yelena Call for Papers: My Nabokov The next issue of Ulbandus, Columbia University's Slavic Review, turns its focus to Vladimir Nabokov, perhaps the most provocative Russian author of the 20th century (google 1,430,000 and rising; Solzhenytsin brings up half that number). Nabokov's prodigious output in poetry, prose, translation-and strong opinions-raises numerous questions for us to consider: Fame and literary scandals; problems of translation and translation theory; text adaptation in film and film representation in text; the visual Nabokov; the author in exile; Nabokov as Russian, American or European author; autobiography as fiction or vice versa; bending genre; the 'voice' in the introduction; Nabokov as scholar, instructor and scientist; erotica and pornography; Nabokov as inspiration; the (post)Soviet Nabokov-among many other possibilities. We are especially interested in the notion of Nabokov in dialogue-with other authors, genres and media-and encourage papers focusing on works that specifically rewrite and reinvent Nabokov (i.e., Kubrick, Pelevin, Eco, Nafisi) or explore the idea of dialogue, or the lack thereof, as a structural, narratological and ethical question in Nabokov's works taken alone. As always, Ulbandus welcomes non-traditional and / or experimental pieces. Submissions from outside of the Slavic field are warmly invited. The submission deadline is May 1, 2006. Papers must be double-spaced and should not exceed 25 pages in length. Electronic submissions are encouraged. Interested applicants may also submit papers to: ULBANDUS, Columbia University, 1130 Amsterdam Avenue Mail code 2839, New York, NY 10027,USA. For posted submissions, please include (2) two print copies as well as a copy in rich text file on CDR. For further details, see our website at www.columbia.edu/cu/slavic/ulbandus/, or write to: ulbandus at columbia.edu for more information. Ulbandus is a peer-reviewed journal. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From trubikhina at AOL.COM Mon Apr 10 22:14:41 2006 From: trubikhina at AOL.COM (Julia Trubikhina) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 18:14:41 -0400 Subject: Thanks for Nabokov issue Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, thanks for the link. Got it. ------------------- Julia Trubikhina Assistant Professor of Russian Russian Program Coordinator Department of Modern Languages and Literatures Montclair State University Dickson Hall, Room 138 Montclair, NJ 07043 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kbtrans at COX.NET Mon Apr 10 23:28:11 2006 From: kbtrans at COX.NET (Kim Braithwaite) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 16:28:11 -0700 Subject: Infrastruktura = material'no-tekhnicheskaya baza? Message-ID: The English word "infrastructure" aside, do Russians discern a difference between the terms инфраструктура (infrastruktura) and материально-техническая база (material'no-tekhnicheskaya baza), or do they pretty much cover the same ground? In other words might MTB bear the same relation to infrastruktura that e.g. the once common term ЭВМ (EVM) does to the newer компьютер (komp'yuter)? Just curious. It's been years since I last encountered EVM, but infrastruktura and MTB both come up fairly often. The monolingual Russian references I have give excellent definitions for infrastruktura but have no entry for MTB (there must be one somewhere). Thanks for any input. Kim etc..... ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at COX.NET Mon Apr 10 23:40:10 2006 From: asred at COX.NET (Steve Marder) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:40:10 -0400 Subject: Infrastruktura = material'no-tekhnicheskaya baza? In-Reply-To: <012901c65cf6$6ea7d1c0$6401a8c0@your46e94owx6a> Message-ID: Hi, Kim, Apologies for not actually addressing a major question in your previous e-mail. > The English word "infrastructure" aside, do Russians discern a difference > between the terms инфраструктура (infrastruktura) and материально-техническая > база (material'no-tekhnicheskaya baza), or do they pretty much cover the same > ground? In other words might MTB bear the same relation to infrastruktura that > e.g. the once common term ЭВМ (EVM) does to the newer компьютер (komp'yuter)? > Just curious. It's been years since I last encountered EVM, but infrastruktura > and MTB both come up fairly often. The monolingual Russian references I have > give excellent definitions for infrastruktura but have no entry for MTB (there > must be one somewhere). I feel that “infrastructure” is part of MTB, but not synonymous with it. As far as ЭВМ is concerned, I perceive a major difference between it and компьютер. In my perception, ЭВМ encapsulates the concept of “mainframe.” Just my $0.02. Steve ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Tue Apr 11 01:19:18 2006 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 21:19:18 -0400 Subject: search for Russian synonyms In-Reply-To: <8C82AFFB992CA67-C8C-151E@MBLK-M02.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: magnetic, ----- pritjagatel'naja spell-binding or hypnotic ----- zasasyvajushchaja krasota But then there is "obajatel'naja" as opposed to "ocharovatel'naja", "prelestnaja" and "plenitel'naja" as opposed to "vosxititel'naja" (probably more 'charming' than 'fascinating'). Aren't we supposed to look at culture-specific characteristics? Or at least at deviations (and distorted borrowings), such as "glamurnaja zhenshchina" rather than "unicode", a semantic esperanto? __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Tue Apr 11 08:18:16 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 01:18:16 -0700 Subject: a bookish term for "well-endowed" In-Reply-To: <002501c65ce9$77f18490$6a01a8c0@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: I agree. It simply slipped my memory. I read your posting after I sent mine. But mine "also colloquial" meant that "grudastaja" is as qolloquial as the English word is. I have "Oxford Advanced Learner's D." on my desk. It says that the English word is "informal, humourous". So I wrote what I wrote. And as to "pyshnogrudaja", yes, it is not "informal or humorous", but exactly from the HIGH-brow literature. And I have no idea if the English word is really informal and humorous in American English. It's the first time I have seen this word at all, I think. MV Inna Caron wrote: Ladies, I assure you, regardless of what the dictionary says, the term "pyshnogrudaia" (as well as "vysokogrudaia") is what has been used in high-brow literature, both native and translated from other languages. ~IC ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Tue Apr 11 09:09:33 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 05:09:33 -0400 Subject: search for Russian synonyms Message-ID: Is someone putting together a "Russian Mail-Order Bride Catalogue" ? description of products on offer ? Vera Beljakova Johannesburg Original Message: ----------------- From: Maryna Vinarska vinarska at YAHOO.COM Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2006 14:45:33 -0700 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] search for Russian synonyms Prof Steven P Hill wrote: Would like to have RUSSIAN EQUIVALENTS, in the same context, for such similar terms as: shapely, --------------- figuristaja (colloquial) well-built, ------------------khorosho slozhena (Ona khorosho slozhena.) well-endowed,---------------------new word for me, but if it is what my dictionary says: "(informal, humourous) having large breasts", it is "grudastaja" (also colloq.) curvacious,------------------- figuristaja (colloq.) fascinating,-------------------obvorozhitel'naja, izumitel'naja magnetic,-------------------- magneticheskaja zhenshchina (not common, but used sometimes; however, use it with the noun, not alone) hypnotic,---------------- gipnoticheskaja zhenshchina (not very common, but probably because there are no so many such women...) spell-binding,--------------------- probably "gipnoticheskaja zhenshchina" again seductive,--------------------- soblaznitel'naja appealing, --------------------privlakatel'naja feminine.--------------------zhenstvennaja. Will you help with this semantic project of mine ? Hope so.-- John Rim. ................Come on! Tell us the truth! Are you in love?.. Good luck! Regards, MV --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Tue Apr 11 13:14:39 2006 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 09:14:39 -0400 Subject: a bookish term for "well-endowed" In-Reply-To: <002501c65ce9$77f18490$6a01a8c0@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: >Ladies, I assure you, regardless of what the dictionary says, and what does it say? >the term >"pyshnogrudaia" (as well as "vysokogrudaia") is what has been used in >high-brow literature, both native and translated from other languages. A search of lib.ru (Moshkov's library) gave 377 of pyshnogrudaja and 9 340 for pyshnotelaja. Without the silicon implants a woman is more likely to be pyshnotelaja if she is pyshnogrudaja, plus interest in being well-endowed (I am choosing words carefully) is a culture specific trait, namely it is part of the English speaking (and probably Italian speaking and maybe some other) world. French are more fascinated with legs (just look at all the flat-chested movie stars who are parading their gorgeous legs), and to figure out the Latin American culture you've got to look at women's bathing suits. Thus the choice of vocabulary and its frequency. __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From amewington at DAVIDSON.EDU Tue Apr 11 15:25:11 2006 From: amewington at DAVIDSON.EDU (Amanda Ewington) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 10:25:11 -0500 Subject: One semester sabbatical replacement position at Davidson College for spring 2007 Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Please see below the posting for a one-semester sabbatical replacement at Davidson College for spring 2007. Davidson is a highly selective independent liberal arts college for 1,700 students, located in Davidson, NC, 20 miles north of Charlotte, NC. Davidson has graduated 23 Rhodes Scholars and is consistently recognized as one of the leading liberal arts colleges in the nation. ------------------------------- One semester sabbatical replacement position at Davidson College: The Department of German and Russian at Davidson College invites applications for an Adjunct Assistant Professor or Adjunct Instructor to teach three courses during spring semester 2007: Second-semester Russian (RUS 102), Nineteenth-Century Russian Novel (RUS 294), and another literature or culture survey in translation (topic open). The successful candidate will also lead Davidson¹s six-week summer program in Moscow at MGIMO, May 27-July 8. Candidates should be committed to mentoring students and maintaining a sense of excitement for Davidson's small but dedicated Russian program. Qualifications: Excellent Russian skills; experience teaching American undergraduates; enthusiasm for gaining experience in all aspects of running a program; ability to work independently; Ph.D. or A.B.D. in Russian language, literature, or culture. Women and minorities are encouraged to apply. The position will remain open until filled. Interested applicants must apply online at https://jobs.davidson.edu and upload a curriculum vitae along with a letter of application detailing teaching interests and experience. Please send three confidential letters of recommendation to: Burkhard Henke, Chair Department of German and Russian Davidson College Box 6956 Davidson, NC 28035-6956 ------------------------- Thanks! Amanda ----------------------------------------------- Amanda Ewington, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Russian Davidson College Department of German and Russian Box 6936 Davidson, NC 28035-6936 tel: (704)894-2397 fax: (704)894-2782 amewington at davidson.edu http://www.davidson.edu/russian/index.htm Courier: 209 Ridge Road Davidson, NC 28036 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU Tue Apr 11 16:35:32 2006 From: pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (Peter Scotto) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:35:32 -0400 Subject: "well-endowed" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How about just "stroinaia" as a culturally appropriate and unforced-sounding term. I rather like it because it picks up on English "built" - to my ear. A Russian colleague of mine suggests "khoroshaia figura" as non-offensive and colloquial. The rest,as my old conversation teacher - Anatolii Sapronov - used to say is pure "anglosaksonstvo." Peter Scotto Department of Russian Mount Holyoke College ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Tue Apr 11 17:03:06 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:03:06 -0400 Subject: well-endowed Message-ID: Of course, don't let us be sexist, a man can also be "stroinyi" as well as a woman who can be 'stroinaya'. It's not 'well-endowed', but merely 'well-put-together' (well-proportioned). (Neither is it 'well-built', which conjures up someone beefy or pumped up with muscles). We women know such things ! Vera Beljakova Original Message: ----------------- From: Peter Scotto pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:35:32 -0400 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] "well-endowed" How about just "stroinaia" as a culturally appropriate and unforced-sounding term. I rather like it because it picks up on English "built" - to my ear. A Russian colleague of mine suggests "khoroshaia figura" as non-offensive and colloquial. The rest,as my old conversation teacher - Anatolii Sapronov - used to say is pure "anglosaksonstvo." Peter Scotto Department of Russian Mount Holyoke College ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Tue Apr 11 17:09:08 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:09:08 -0400 Subject: a bookish term for "well-endowed" In-Reply-To: <20060411081816.24699.qmail@web30810.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Maryna Vinarska wrote: > I agree. It simply slipped my memory. I read your posting after I > sent mine. But mine "also colloquial" meant that "grudastaja" is as > qolloquial as the English word is. I have "Oxford Advanced Learner's > D." on my desk. It says that the English word is "informal, > humourous". So I wrote what I wrote. > > And as to "pyshnogrudaja", yes, it is not "informal or humorous", > but exactly from the HIGH-brow literature. > > And I have no idea if the English word is really informal and > humorous in American English. It's the first time I have seen this > word at all, I think. I've mostly heard "well-endowed" as a euphemistic or polite way around saying a woman has large breasts or a man has a large penis. It can often be said with a smile or a chuckle, and it can be said in the politest of company -- though of course the subject itself would probably be off-limits there. You won't hear it in a locker room, where much cruder phrasings prevail. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Tue Apr 11 17:15:11 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:15:11 -0400 Subject: Infrastruktura = material'no-tekhnicheskaya baza? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve Marder wrote: > I feel that “infrastructure” is part of MTB, but not synonymous with > it. I'd be interested to know what types of things fall within МТБ but outside "infrastructure." > As far as ЭВМ is concerned, I perceive a major difference between it > and компьютер. In my perception, ЭВМ encapsulates the concept of > “mainframe.” That could be due to two different factors -- one is that "ЭВМ" is a relatively older (some might say obsolescent) term from Soviet days, whereas "компьютер" has more of a trendy modern flavor; and the other is that 20 years ago mainframes were prevalent and PCs were just getting started, whereas nowadays PCs are ubiquitous and mainframes are limited to heavy-duty business and industrial applications. So given these two realia, it's only natural that the older "ЭВМ" would be associated with the older mainframe technology and the newer "компьютер" would be associated with the newer PC technology. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU Tue Apr 11 18:22:32 2006 From: russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU (Russell Valentino) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 13:22:32 -0500 Subject: well-endowed Message-ID: Well-built or simply built doesn't necessary conjure up muscles, though it may be a slightly older slang term. I recall a popular song from when I was a teenager -- Brick House (was it by the Commodores?) that went, "She's a brick house, she's mighty mighty, just lettin' it all hang out..." A metonymy, I suppose, on being "built." Stroinaia would work well in that context. Shikabom shikabom-bom. Quoting "atacama at global.co.za" : > Of course, don't let us be sexist, > a man can also be "stroinyi" > as well as a woman who can be 'stroinaya'. > > It's not 'well-endowed', but merely 'well-put-together' > (well-proportioned). > (Neither is it 'well-built', which conjures up someone beefy > or pumped up with muscles). > > We women know such things ! > > Vera Beljakova ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From herrington.matthew at GMAIL.COM Tue Apr 11 18:47:14 2006 From: herrington.matthew at GMAIL.COM (Matthew Herrington) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:47:14 -0400 Subject: Detectability of Onegin's latent homosexuality, Martha Fiennes and my A In-Reply-To: <143408770604110704s6228166chfd9098948ef1754c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear All, I just realized that my response to Vera Beljakova did not go out to the list, but to her personally. Here it is, for what it's worth. This will be my last contribution as the entire discussion seems to be devolving into pure bigotry. MH On 4/11/06, Matthew Herrington wrote: > > Actually, Casnova is known to have slept with men and also to have > crossdressed. And I did not say that dandy is equivalent to "gay". You > fail to understand that sexuality is more fluid than the categories used to > describe them today. And calling any of our heroes "gay" is not to impute > their honor; they would have no reason to challenge me to a duel. They > would, however, likely be less offended by the appellation than you are, > since you seem to believe that "gay" is a good insult. > > MH > > > On 4/10/06, atacama at global.co.za wrote: > > > > Why is it that most people on this List seem to forget > > that being a Dandy in that Period was the "in-thing", > > it was the height of fashion and all well-born men did > > their best to demonstrate their status in life by being > > well-turned out.... > > > > There is a difference between a Dandy and a Pansy. > > Beau Brummel (the singer now living in SA running a > > nudist colony) is being blamed for being overtly > > heterosexual, although he modelled himself on the > > real Beau Brummel. > > > > Just look at the costume dramas, historic films, > > the recently released Casanova, Hamlet in tights, > > the Roman/Grecian/Trojan heroes, men in skirts and > > sandals with a sword....Please don't start telling > > me that ALL our male literary heroes are 'gay'.... > > They are not here to defend their 'honour' or > > challenge you to a duel. > > > > Vera Beljakova > > Johannesburg > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Tue Apr 11 18:54:01 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:54:01 -0400 Subject: Tatyana's turn / Detectability of Onegin's latent homosexuality, Martha Fiennes and my A Message-ID: Maybe the next thread will be about Tatyana turning gay ? ...food for thought for some ? Vera Beljakova Original Message: ----------------- From: Matthew Herrington herrington.matthew at GMAIL.COM Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 14:47:14 -0400 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Detectability of Onegin's latent homosexuality, Martha Fiennes and my A Dear All, I just realized that my response to Vera Beljakova did not go out to the list, but to her personally. Here it is, for what it's worth. This will be my last contribution as the entire discussion seems to be devolving into pure bigotry. MH On 4/11/06, Matthew Herrington wrote: > > Actually, Casnova is known to have slept with men and also to have > crossdressed. And I did not say that dandy is equivalent to "gay". You > fail to understand that sexuality is more fluid than the categories used to > describe them today. And calling any of our heroes "gay" is not to impute > their honor; they would have no reason to challenge me to a duel. They > would, however, likely be less offended by the appellation than you are, > since you seem to believe that "gay" is a good insult. > > MH > > > On 4/10/06, atacama at global.co.za wrote: > > > > Why is it that most people on this List seem to forget > > that being a Dandy in that Period was the "in-thing", > > it was the height of fashion and all well-born men did > > their best to demonstrate their status in life by being > > well-turned out.... > > > > There is a difference between a Dandy and a Pansy. > > Beau Brummel (the singer now living in SA running a > > nudist colony) is being blamed for being overtly > > heterosexual, although he modelled himself on the > > real Beau Brummel. > > > > Just look at the costume dramas, historic films, > > the recently released Casanova, Hamlet in tights, > > the Roman/Grecian/Trojan heroes, men in skirts and > > sandals with a sword....Please don't start telling > > me that ALL our male literary heroes are 'gay'.... > > They are not here to defend their 'honour' or > > challenge you to a duel. > > > > Vera Beljakova > > Johannesburg > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Tue Apr 11 19:49:57 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:49:57 -0700 Subject: Detectability of Onegin's latent homosexuality, Martha Fiennes and my A In-Reply-To: <143408770604111147t45ec3031r80343cee893e6c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Dear Matthew, if you wanted a discussion, then why were you actually silent? What is your STATEMENT, premise or whatever it is called in English? What are your arguments? Would you be so kind to present both? And try, please, to make your point as clear as you can. I will do the same. With me it's not a problem. I can be serious as well. We may clear up everything using our private e-mail addresses not to burden those who seem to be not wanting to have this disscussion here. We may simply present them the final result of our private debate. It may turn out to be rather interesting, by the way. Ready? You have my e-mail address. Regards, Maryna Vinarska Matthew Herrington wrote: Dear All, I just realized that my response to Vera Beljakova did not go out to the list, but to her personally. Here it is, for what it's worth. This will be my last contribution as the entire discussion seems to be devolving into pure bigotry. MH --------------------------------- Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nflrc at HAWAII.EDU Tue Apr 11 22:00:51 2006 From: nflrc at HAWAII.EDU (National Foreign Language Resource Center) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 12:00:51 -1000 Subject: REMINDER: Conversation Analysis & Language Learning Seminar in Hawaii (application deadline - April 30) Message-ID: Our apologies for any cross-postings . . . The National Foreign Language Resource Center (NFLRC) at the University of Hawaii at Manoa in Honolulu will be holding a special Conversation Analysis seminar in August. Please read the following for more details. The application deadline is April 30, 2006. "CONVERSATION ANALYSIS & LANGUAGE LEARNING" SEMINAR (AUGUST 7-11, 2006) Conversation Analysis (CA) is increasingly adopted to examine second language interactions as sites for and evidence of L2 learning as a discursive practice. The purpose of the seminar is to further advance this ongoing effort. Topics will include: interactional competence as resource and under construction, interaction & cognition, interaction & grammar, interaction & learning, and membership categorization & social identity. The seminar does NOT offer an introduction to CA. Rather, it addresses itself to researchers with a background in CA whose work focuses on, or includes, CA as an approach to L2 learning. We hope to welcome veteran CA analysts as well as graduate students with relevant training. The maximum number of accepted participants will be 20. Our invited seminar leaders will be Gabriele Pallotti (University of Modena and Reggio Emilia) & Johannes Wagner (University of Southern Denmark). For more information or the online application form (deadline - April 30, 2006), visit our seminar website: http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/prodev/si06c/ ************************************************************************* N National Foreign Language Resource Center F University of Hawai'i L 1859 East-West Road, #106 R Honolulu HI 96822 C voice: (808) 956-9424, fax: (808) 956-5983 email: nflrc at hawaii.edu VISIT OUR WEBSITE! http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu ************************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nataliek at UALBERTA.CA Tue Apr 11 22:36:25 2006 From: nataliek at UALBERTA.CA (nataliek at UALBERTA.CA) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:36:25 -0600 Subject: non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear List members, I must say that the various recent discussions have made for some interesting reading. May I ask the following - and this is a matter of personal rather than professional curiosity - what are the contemporary non-bookish, as in street, terms for "well-endowed" and those other attributes that are associated with sexual desirability in women? And if Alina would be so kind, what are the culturally attractive body parts in Russian culture, and perhaps also in other Slavic cutlures? This question is getting close to professional interests. Natalie Kononenko Kule Chair of Ukrainian Ethnography University of Alberta Modern Languages and Cultural Studies 200 Arts Building Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2E6 Phone: 780-492-6810 Web: http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/uvp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Yevgeny.Slivkin at MONTEREY.ARMY.MIL Tue Apr 11 23:15:46 2006 From: Yevgeny.Slivkin at MONTEREY.ARMY.MIL (Slivkin, Yevgeny) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:15:46 -0700 Subject: non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. Message-ID: Natalie Kononenko asked, "what are the culturally attractive body parts in Russian culture, and perhaps also in other Slavic cutlures?" I do not know about the other Slavic cultures, but in Russian culture which is still based on literature the most attractive part of femail body is "piatka". Don Guan: (...)pod etim vdov'im chernym pokryvalom Chut' uzen'kuiu piatku ia zametil. Leporello: Dovol'no s vas. U vas voobrazhen'e V minutu dorisuet ostal'noe (A.S. Pushkin) Yevgeny Slivkin -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of nataliek at UALBERTA.CA Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:36 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. Dear List members, I must say that the various recent discussions have made for some interesting reading. May I ask the following - and this is a matter of personal rather than professional curiosity - what are the contemporary non-bookish, as in street, terms for "well-endowed" and those other attributes that are associated with sexual desirability in women? And if Alina would be so kind, what are the culturally attractive body parts in Russian culture, and perhaps also in other Slavic cutlures? This question is getting close to professional interests. Natalie Kononenko Kule Chair of Ukrainian Ethnography University of Alberta Modern Languages and Cultural Studies 200 Arts Building Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2E6 Phone: 780-492-6810 Web: http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/uvp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Tue Apr 11 23:23:39 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 16:23:39 -0700 Subject: Infrastruktura = material'no-tekhnicheskaya baza? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Steve Marder wrote:I feel that “infrastructure” is part of MTB, but not synonymous with it. .........................I feel the opposite, to tell the truth... It is complicated. Let's not confuse English "infrastructure" (I trust you, so let it be MTB) and the Russian word "infrastruktura". So... MTB vs "infrastruktura" (Russian word!). MTB is actually resources, any "predprijatie" needs to produce smth. It belongs exclusively to "predprijatie". "Infrastruktura" (Russian word!!!) USED to mean smth different. The word was sometimes used by a plant director ("direktor zavoda"), for example, or any other person from the staff to describe not only MTB, but the following as well: part of the railroad running near the plant territory, this plant was responsible of, a local kindergarden and a local hospital, or maybe even a library, that the plant had to provide with heat, electricity, etc. So "infrastruktura" (Russian word) USED to be "shire". And they used to say "nasha infrastruktura", meaning all I mentioned above. But it was actually not their "infrastruktura", no matter that they said "nasha". That was "infrastruktura goroda" or maybe "oblasti". I I remember that it was smth that foreign businessmen were not able to understand at all. I once heard, for example: "You are either in sugar business or in railroad business. You can't be in both..." They couldn't understand, why one sugar plant had to provide all those recepients I mentioned, the railroad included, with electricity, heat, etc. As to this particular plant, that was practically bought by a joint venture, I know for sure that it was either 1994 or 1995. This means that up to that time "infrastruktura" meant a lot of things that "predprijatie" did not need to PRODUCE smth. You have to ask smb who knows what "planovaja ekonomika" is if you have to translate smth from that era. I was only interpreting. So this is what I remember. I don't know what "infrastruktura" means nowadays. Theoretically, it must be the same with MTB now, but who knows. I will call smb tomorrow and ask what is what in my part of the world now because I want to know it myself. Novogodnie elki po vsemy gorodu kto-to uzhe neskol'ko let vnov' ochen' khorosho nariazhaet. Ochen' krasivye teper'. Znachit, na kogo-to ikh "povesili" (colloq.) Znachit, oni v chjej-to infrastrukture, ili gorodskikh vlastej ili neposredstvenno blizlezhashchikh predprijatij. But you don't need "novogodnije elki" to produce smth. Right? I will find out. Regards, MV --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Wed Apr 12 00:28:23 2006 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:28:23 -0400 Subject: non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. In-Reply-To: <97DA6A04F2B3AB4DB1BBE45D34C630E9025F9539@montimb102.nasw.us.army.mil> Message-ID: Slivkin's comment not withstanding, >I do not know about the other Slavic cultures, but in Russian culture which >is still based on literature the most attractive part of femail body is >"piatka". culturally, not individually (I mean male-heterosexually, for which it is probably the same three body parts I alluded to with varying individual preference), I think it is "tonkaja talija" that is the main element of feminine body for the Russian culture (143 000 on lib.ru). "Uzkaja talija" and "osinaja talija" also qualify. Otherwise the woman must be "v tele". If one doesn't jive with the other, well, that's the Eurasian push and pull (and I am not attempting to open another can of worms). And here I must relate an anectode. When I was studying Polish in my youth, in one of the textbooks made in Poland with a record to go with it with all sorts of nice dialogues, there was one dialogue between a husband and wife (I think Janek and Agata), and he was late or something and as an apology he said that he was watching umbrellas (oglandam parasolki, if I remember it correctly), and she replied, no you are watching girls because they have "bardzo zgrabne nogi" (or maybe simply zgrabne nogi). I cannot recall any language textbook (and I studied a few) where women's legs would be part of elementary language course. In Italian only at the third year level did we encounter the pappagallismo italiano. Food for thought. As for "pjatka", I think men were more or less fed up with women's shoulders in Pushkin's time and were fantasizing about all the hidden body parts (just remember "Car' Nikita"). Somewhere else he wrote something about "edva najdetsja para strojnyx nog" or something like that, not that legs were on display like the shoulders, mini-skirts appeared 130 years later. As far as I remember Anatole Kuragin used to kiss the shoulders of his sister. Of course it could mean incest, but also that shoulders were like cheeks, always uncovered. __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jtonn at PRINCETON.EDU Wed Apr 12 00:56:42 2006 From: jtonn at PRINCETON.EDU (Jim Tonn) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 20:56:42 -0400 Subject: non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alina, I happen to have just read the Polish excerpt you mentioned. It's from Oscar Swan, Intermediate Polish (I think--I have only a photocopied portion), pages 66-67. Marek is observing the ladies' umbrellas, and his friend Adam says, "Nie jestem pewien, czy obserwujesz parasolki, czy kobiety." [I'm not sure, if you are watching the umbrellas or the women.] Later Marek points out one particularly attractive umbrella, and Adam agrees, "No tak... Ta parasolka ma bardzo zgrabne nogi." [Well, yes... That umbrella has got a very fine pair of legs.] (Marek's wife, Agata, appears later.) Jim Tonn Slavic Languages and Literature Princeton University -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Alina Israeli Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 8:28 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. Slivkin's comment not withstanding, >I do not know about the other Slavic cultures, but in Russian culture which >is still based on literature the most attractive part of femail body is >"piatka". culturally, not individually (I mean male-heterosexually, for which it is probably the same three body parts I alluded to with varying individual preference), I think it is "tonkaja talija" that is the main element of feminine body for the Russian culture (143 000 on lib.ru). "Uzkaja talija" and "osinaja talija" also qualify. Otherwise the woman must be "v tele". If one doesn't jive with the other, well, that's the Eurasian push and pull (and I am not attempting to open another can of worms). And here I must relate an anectode. When I was studying Polish in my youth, in one of the textbooks made in Poland with a record to go with it with all sorts of nice dialogues, there was one dialogue between a husband and wife (I think Janek and Agata), and he was late or something and as an apology he said that he was watching umbrellas (oglandam parasolki, if I remember it correctly), and she replied, no you are watching girls because they have "bardzo zgrabne nogi" (or maybe simply zgrabne nogi). I cannot recall any language textbook (and I studied a few) where women's legs would be part of elementary language course. In Italian only at the third year level did we encounter the pappagallismo italiano. Food for thought. As for "pjatka", I think men were more or less fed up with women's shoulders in Pushkin's time and were fantasizing about all the hidden body parts (just remember "Car' Nikita"). Somewhere else he wrote something about "edva najdetsja para strojnyx nog" or something like that, not that legs were on display like the shoulders, mini-skirts appeared 130 years later. As far as I remember Anatole Kuragin used to kiss the shoulders of his sister. Of course it could mean incest, but also that shoulders were like cheeks, always uncovered. __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Wed Apr 12 02:02:58 2006 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 22:02:58 -0400 Subject: non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alina Israeli wrote: >I think men were more or less fed up with women's >shoulders in Pushkin's time and were fantasizing about all the hidden body >parts (just remember "Car' Nikita"). Somewhere else he wrote something >about "edva najdetsja para strojnyx nog" or something like that SOMEWHERE? After all that talk about Onegin's private business? :)) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lgoering at CARLETON.EDU Wed Apr 12 02:07:13 2006 From: lgoering at CARLETON.EDU (Laura Goering) Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2006 21:07:13 -0500 Subject: family name Liskovskii Message-ID: A friend asked me the origins of the family name "Liskovsky". I quick Google shows it to be rather uncommon as a Russian surname. Can anyone enlighten me on its origins, either in Russian or some other Slavic language? Off-list, please, to lgoering at carleton.edu Thank you! Laura Goering ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From zielinski at GMX.CH Wed Apr 12 06:23:08 2006 From: zielinski at GMX.CH (Zielinski) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:23:08 +0200 Subject: family name Liskovskii Message-ID: Laura Goering: > A friend asked me the origins of the family name "Liskovsky". It is known in Poland as "Liskowski". The members of this family belong to "szlachta" and use two coats of arms: either "Lis" or "Sas". The first one suggests an origin from "lis" (diminutive: "lisek") - "fox". Hope that helps. Jan Zielinski ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From chrisbclough at GMAIL.COM Wed Apr 12 07:53:18 2006 From: chrisbclough at GMAIL.COM (Chris B. Clough) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:53:18 +0400 Subject: non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. In-Reply-To: <005801c65dd5$391c48d0$6a01a8c0@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: Is "v tele" considered a positive attribute for women? I've heard it used as such for men, but for some reason had thought it did not imply attractiveness in a woman. Curious, Chris From gasan.gusejnov at DW-WORLD.DE Wed Apr 12 08:15:22 2006 From: gasan.gusejnov at DW-WORLD.DE (Gasan Gusejnov) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:15:22 +0200 Subject: AW: [SEELANGS] "well-endowed" In-Reply-To: <1144773332.443bdad4423af@mist.mtholyoke.edu> Message-ID: perhaps, the best "original" for "well-endowed" is "ladnaya", as e.g. "xoro60 slo*ennaya" would be a calque. -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] Im Auftrag von Peter Scotto Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. April 2006 18:36 An: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Betreff: Re: [SEELANGS] "well-endowed" How about just "stroinaia" as a culturally appropriate and unforced-sounding term. I rather like it because it picks up on English "built" - to my ear. A Russian colleague of mine suggests "khoroshaia figura" as non-offensive and colloquial. The rest,as my old conversation teacher - Anatolii Sapronov - used to say is pure "anglosaksonstvo." Peter Scotto Department of Russian Mount Holyoke College ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Apr 12 08:46:18 2006 From: shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM (Vladimir Shatsev) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 04:46:18 -0400 Subject: AW: [SEELANGS] "well-endowed" In-Reply-To: <004001c65e09$3e7bb890$329ea8c0@vbinet25> Message-ID: Please don't forget about Bunin's Legkoye Dihaniye.The end of this story. And it is I think continues the conversation between Anatol and Dolokhov in W and P(vol.2,part 5): " Oni razobrali dostonstvo ee ruk,nog,plech i volos". Vladimir Shatsev >From: Gasan Gusejnov >Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: [SEELANGS] AW: [SEELANGS] "well-endowed" >Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:15:22 +0200 > >perhaps, the best "original" for "well-endowed" is "ladnaya", as e.g. >"xoro60 slo*ennaya" would be a calque. > > >-----Urspr�ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list >[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] Im Auftrag von Peter Scotto >Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. April 2006 18:36 >An: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Betreff: Re: [SEELANGS] "well-endowed" > > >How about just "stroinaia" as a culturally appropriate and >unforced-sounding >term. I rather like it because it picks up on English "built" - to my ear. > >A Russian colleague of mine suggests "khoroshaia figura" as non-offensive >and colloquial. > >The rest,as my old conversation teacher - Anatolii Sapronov - used to say >is >pure "anglosaksonstvo." > >Peter Scotto >Department of Russian >Mount Holyoke College > >------------------------------------------------- >This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Don't just Search. Find! http://search.sympatico.msn.ca/default.aspx The new MSN Search! Check it out! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sbauckus at earthlink.net Wed Apr 12 08:47:50 2006 From: sbauckus at earthlink.net (Susan Bauckus) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 01:47:50 -0700 Subject: UCLA Summer Intensive Russian Classes Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Below is information about the intensive Russian Classes offered by UCLA this summer. We hope you will share this with your colleagues and students. Thank you. Regards, Susan Bauckus UCLA Center for World Languages ********************************************* Department of Slavic Languages & Literatures Summer Intensive Russian in LA Elementary/Intermediate Russian June 26 - August 18, 2006 Russian 10: Intensive Elementary Russian (12 units) Intensive basic course in the Russian language equivalent to courses 1, 2, and 3. Russian 10 focuses on communication with attention to grammatical accuracy, as well as on reading, listening, and writing. Students work with an experienced instructor and have one-on-one or small group tutoring with a native speaker of Russian. Video is used throughout the course. Russian 20: Intensive Intermediate Russian (12 units) Requisite: course 10 or one year of elementary Russian. Intensive second year sequence in Russian (courses 4, 5, 6). Russian 20 focuses on furthering competency in standard contemporary Russian. Additional emphasis on reading and writing skills. Exposure to Russian culture through literature, films and other activities. Students work with an experienced instructor and have one-on-one or small group tutoring with a native speaker of Russian. Special activities are planned in the Russian community of Los Angeles to provide additional speaking practice and exposure to Russian culture. For more information on Russian language courses, contact Director of the Summer Intensives, Anna Kudyma (akudyma at ucla.edu). Also offered: Russian 90B, Russian Civilization of the 20th Century (in English) For information on all the courses, go to the website http://www.summer.ucla.edu or send an e-mail to heidi at humnet.ucla.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Apr 12 09:08:19 2006 From: shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM (Vladimir Shatsev) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 05:08:19 -0400 Subject: non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. In-Reply-To: <36fce1cc0604120053j26efdaa4gbba27e6da07080cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Please don't forget about Legkoye Dikhaniye by Bunin,the end of the story. It is the reflection of the conversation of Dolokhov and Anatol in War and Peace: " Oni razobrali dostoistvo ee nog,ruk,plech i volos". Vladimir Shatsev >From: "Chris B. Clough" >Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. >Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 11:53:18 +0400 > >Is "v tele" considered a positive attribute for women? I've heard it >used as such for men, but for some reason had thought it did not imply >attractiveness in a woman. > >Curious, > >Chris _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft� SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN� Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gasan.gusejnov at DW-WORLD.DE Wed Apr 12 10:42:55 2006 From: gasan.gusejnov at DW-WORLD.DE (Gasan Gusejnov) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 12:42:55 +0200 Subject: AW: [SEELANGS] AW: [SEELANGS] "well-endowed" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, I didn't get your point: I am afraid, neither Bunin nor Pushkin would be helpful with the current Russian equivalent for "well-endowed" ;)) However, I'll do my best in order not to forget both wonderful authors. Gasan Gusejnov http://magazines.russ.ru/znamia/2006/4/gg17.html Von: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] Im Auftrag von Vladimir Shatsev Gesendet: Mittwoch, 12. April 2006 10:46 An: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Betreff: Re: [SEELANGS] AW: [SEELANGS] "well-endowed" Please don't forget about Bunin's Legkoye Dihaniye.The end of this story. And it is I think continues the conversation between Anatol and Dolokhov in W and P(vol.2,part 5): " Oni razobrali dostonstvo ee ruk,nog,plech i volos". Vladimir Shatsev >From: Gasan Gusejnov >Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: [SEELANGS] AW: [SEELANGS] "well-endowed" >Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:15:22 +0200 > >perhaps, the best "original" for "well-endowed" is "ladnaya", as e.g. >"xoro60 slo*ennaya" would be a calque. > > >-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >Von: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list >[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] Im Auftrag von Peter Scotto >Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. April 2006 18:36 >An: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Betreff: Re: [SEELANGS] "well-endowed" > > >How about just "stroinaia" as a culturally appropriate and >unforced-sounding >term. I rather like it because it picks up on English "built" - to my ear. > >A Russian colleague of mine suggests "khoroshaia figura" as >non-offensive and colloquial. > >The rest,as my old conversation teacher - Anatolii Sapronov - used to >say >is >pure "anglosaksonstvo." > >Peter Scotto >Department of Russian >Mount Holyoke College > >------------------------------------------------- >This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Don't just Search. Find! http://search.sympatico.msn.ca/default.aspx The new MSN Search! Check it out! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Wed Apr 12 14:30:05 2006 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 10:30:05 -0400 Subject: "well-endowed" In-Reply-To: <001001c65e1d$db995740$329ea8c0@vbinet25> Message-ID: >Sorry, I didn't get your point: I am afraid, neither Bunin nor Pushkin would >be helpful with the current Russian equivalent for "well-endowed" ;)) That's exactly the point. Neither used a Jayne Mansfield type model. Whatever is of interest to men is (at least in part) culture specific (and time specific). Just think for a moment of an Indian beauty, not the one which is groomed for a Miss Universe contest, but which is considered a beauty in India. As Julia Trubikhina mentioned: well-endowed is the one that would be in a different stylistic "register" in Russian, unless it's just neutral: "with large breasts"-- (s bol'shoi grud'iu) Otherwise, (grudastaia, iadrenaia) And of course there is a score of less and less "decent" epithets...:) much of it not very flattering. Bunin's story has a laundry list of qualities: Я в одной папиной книге,-- у него много старинных смешных книг,-- прочла, какая красота должна быть у женщины... Там, понимаешь, столько насказано, что всего не упомнишь: ну, конечно, черные, кипящие смолой глаза,-- ей-богу, так и написано: кипящие смолой!--черные, как ночь, ресницы, нежно играющий румянец, тонкий стан, длиннее обыкновенного руки,-- понимаешь, длиннее обыкновенного!-- маленькая ножка, в меру большая грудь, правильно округленная икра, колена цвета раковины, покатые плечи, but the bosom must be "v meru bol'shaja", and what is the measure exactly? > >Please don't forget about Bunin's Legkoye Dihaniye.The end of this story. > >And it is I think continues the conversation between Anatol and Dolokhov in >W and P(vol.2,part 5): " Oni razobrali dostonstvo ee ruk,nog,plech i volos". That's a good start for cross-cultural analysis. __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Elena.Levintova at MONTEREY.ARMY.MIL Wed Apr 12 15:24:51 2006 From: Elena.Levintova at MONTEREY.ARMY.MIL (Allison Elena N.) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 08:24:51 -0700 Subject: non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. Message-ID: Recently, looking for authentic audio materials, I came across a Russian podcast named "Sis'ki-pis'ki show." The very title includes some of the "culturally attractive body parts in Russian culture." I think this very title also meets the definition of "the contemporary non-bookish, as in Street" language... :-) Elena Levintova Allison -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of nataliek at UALBERTA.CA Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 3:36 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. Dear List members, I must say that the various recent discussions have made for some interesting reading. May I ask the following - and this is a matter of personal rather than professional curiosity - what are the contemporary non-bookish, as in street, terms for "well-endowed" and those other attributes that are associated with sexual desirability in women? And if Alina would be so kind, what are the culturally attractive body parts in Russian culture, and perhaps also in other Slavic cutlures? This question is getting close to professional interests. Natalie Kononenko Kule Chair of Ukrainian Ethnography University of Alberta Modern Languages and Cultural Studies 200 Arts Building Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2E6 Phone: 780-492-6810 Web: http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/uvp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mj at HOLMAN52.FREESERVE.CO.UK Wed Apr 12 16:39:43 2006 From: mj at HOLMAN52.FREESERVE.CO.UK (Michael Holman) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 17:39:43 +0100 Subject: "well-endowed" Message-ID: What about 'stroinaya'? It may seem a bit tame after all the other body-part slang, but it's still a fine word with no immediately obvious universal equivalent in English. It is, I recollect, the word Tolstoy uses to describe the stroinaya krasavitsa Marianna in 'Kazaki'. She was certainly well endowed and beautifully proportioned in all the right places. Michael Holman ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alina Israeli" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 3:30 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] "well-endowed" >Sorry, I didn't get your point: I am afraid, neither Bunin nor Pushkin >would >be helpful with the current Russian equivalent for "well-endowed" ;)) That's exactly the point. Neither used a Jayne Mansfield type model. Whatever is of interest to men is (at least in part) culture specific (and time specific). Just think for a moment of an Indian beauty, not the one which is groomed for a Miss Universe contest, but which is considered a beauty in India. As Julia Trubikhina mentioned: well-endowed is the one that would be in a different stylistic "register" in Russian, unless it's just neutral: "with large breasts"-- (s bol'shoi grud'iu) Otherwise, (grudastaia, iadrenaia) And of course there is a score of less and less "decent" epithets...:) much of it not very flattering. Bunin's story has a laundry list of qualities: Я в одной папиной книге,-- у него много старинных смешных книг,-- прочла, какая красота должна быть у женщины... Там, понимаешь, столько насказано, что всего не упомнишь: ну, конечно, черные, кипящие смолой глаза,-- ей-богу, так и написано: кипящие смолой!--черные, как ночь, ресницы, нежно играющий румянец, тонкий стан, длиннее обыкновенного руки,-- понимаешь, длиннее обыкновенного!-- маленькая ножка, в меру большая грудь, правильно округленная икра, колена цвета раковины, покатые плечи, but the bosom must be "v meru bol'shaja", and what is the measure exactly? > >Please don't forget about Bunin's Legkoye Dihaniye.The end of this >story. > >And it is I think continues the conversation between Anatol and Dolokhov in >W and P(vol.2,part 5): " Oni razobrali dostonstvo ee ruk,nog,plech i >volos". That's a good start for cross-cultural analysis. __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Wed Apr 12 17:08:41 2006 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:08:41 -0400 Subject: "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry In-Reply-To: <001201c65e4f$b4782d80$0200a8c0@michael45kvn21> Message-ID: Michael Holman wrote: >What about 'stroinaya'? It may seem a bit tame after all the other body-part >slang, but it's still a fine word with no immediately obvious universal >equivalent in English. True, there doesn't seem to be an analogous term in English. Thing is, even in Russian the visual association with this word somewhat differs when applied to men's and women's appearance. To go with the most common folk idiom, a man would be described as "stroinyi kak topol' (poplar)," whereas a woman is "stroinaia kak berezka (birch)." I tend to use "slender" for women, and "lean" for men when translating "stroinaia/yi" into English. It seems the visual comparison of people to trees is a Slavic thing, and not really found in English. Or am I mistaken? Is there an English equivalent to "moguchii kak dub," or "gibkaia kak iva"? Inna Caron Ohio State ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU Wed Apr 12 19:11:16 2006 From: lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU (Laura Janda) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:11:16 -0400 Subject: seeking native speakers of Russian Message-ID: My name is Laura Janda and I am seeking native speakers of Russian/English to rate pairs of sentences in an anonymous questionnaire. The questionnaire is very short (only about 24 pairs of sentences), so it should take only a few minutes to complete. Please send me a message at janda at unc.edu and I will send you a questionnaire along with information about the study, which has been approved by the Behavioral Institutional Review Board at UNC-Chapel Hill. Thank you very much for replying to this email! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU Wed Apr 12 19:16:05 2006 From: lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU (Laura Janda) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:16:05 -0400 Subject: seeking native speakers of RUSSIAN only! Message-ID: My name is Laura Janda and I am seeking native speakers of Russian to rate pairs of sentences in an anonymous questionnaire. The questionnaire is very short (only about 24 pairs of sentences), so it should take only a few minutes to complete. Please send me a message at janda at unc.edu and I will send you a questionnaire along with information about the study, which has been approved by the Behavioral Institutional Review Board at UNC-Chapel Hill. Thank you very much for replying to this email! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU Wed Apr 12 19:42:43 2006 From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:42:43 -0400 Subject: "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry In-Reply-To: <005a01c65e53$c0041f70$6a01a8c0@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: >To go with the most common >folk idiom, a man would be described as "stroinyi kak topol' (poplar)," >whereas a woman is "stroinaia kak berezka (birch)." I tend to use >"slender" for women, and "lean" for men when translating "stroinaia/yi" >into English. > >It seems the visual comparison of people to trees is a Slavic thing, and >not really found in English. Or am I mistaken? Is there an English >equivalent to "moguchii kak dub," or "gibkaia kak iva"? Well, there's "willowy," apparently used for men as well as women (I've only heard it applied to impossibly proportioned model types). I'm never sure what it means -- most likely tall and slender and flexible-looking. One online definition even used the term "pliant" ... no comment. -FR -- Francoise Rosset Russian and Russian Studies Interim Coordinator, Women's Studies Wheaton College Norton, Massachusetts 02766 phone: (508) 286-3696 fax #: (508) 286-3640 e-mail: FRosset at wheatonma.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From irene at HIPERISM.COM Wed Apr 12 22:21:51 2006 From: irene at HIPERISM.COM (Irene Delic) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:21:51 -0700 Subject: "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry In-Reply-To: <005a01c65e53$c0041f70$6a01a8c0@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: In Pushkin's Poltava we have the heroine Mariia likened to a kievskii topol' (Kak topol' kievskikh vysot,/ Ona stroina.) Irene Masing-Delic, Professor, The Ohio State University 400 Hagerty Hall 1775 College Road Columbus OH 43210-1215 tel.: 614-292-4726/6733 fax: 614-688-3107 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Inna Caron Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:09 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry Michael Holman wrote: >What about 'stroinaya'? It may seem a bit tame after all the other body-part >slang, but it's still a fine word with no immediately obvious universal >equivalent in English. True, there doesn't seem to be an analogous term in English. Thing is, even in Russian the visual association with this word somewhat differs when applied to men's and women's appearance. To go with the most common folk idiom, a man would be described as "stroinyi kak topol' (poplar)," whereas a woman is "stroinaia kak berezka (birch)." I tend to use "slender" for women, and "lean" for men when translating "stroinaia/yi" into English. It seems the visual comparison of people to trees is a Slavic thing, and not really found in English. Or am I mistaken? Is there an English equivalent to "moguchii kak dub," or "gibkaia kak iva"? Inna Caron Ohio State ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bmdamare at UMICH.EDU Wed Apr 12 19:59:38 2006 From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU (Brad Damare') Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:59:38 -0400 Subject: "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry In-Reply-To: <005a01c65e53$c0041f70$6a01a8c0@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: In English, one can say "strong as an oak" or "built like an oak tree" for men, but I can't immediately think of any arboreal equivalents for women. Brad Damare' University of Michigan Quoting Inna Caron : > Michael Holman wrote: > >> What about 'stroinaya'? It may seem a bit tame after all the other > body-part >> slang, but it's still a fine word with no immediately obvious universal > >> equivalent in English. > > True, there doesn't seem to be an analogous term in English. Thing is, > even in Russian the visual association with this word somewhat differs > when applied to men's and women's appearance. To go with the most common > folk idiom, a man would be described as "stroinyi kak topol' (poplar)," > whereas a woman is "stroinaia kak berezka (birch)." I tend to use > "slender" for women, and "lean" for men when translating "stroinaia/yi" > into English. > > It seems the visual comparison of people to trees is a Slavic thing, and > not really found in English. Or am I mistaken? Is there an English > equivalent to "moguchii kak dub," or "gibkaia kak iva"? > > Inna Caron > Ohio State > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Apr 12 20:15:18 2006 From: shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM (Vladimir Shatsev) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:15:18 -0400 Subject: "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A v Luvre,okeana doch, stoit prekrasnaya,kak topol'. Chtob mramor saharnii toloch' vzletayet belkoi na Akropol' O.Mandelshtam, "Americanka". >From: Francoise Rosset >Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry >Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:42:43 -0400 > >>To go with the most common >>folk idiom, a man would be described as "stroinyi kak topol' (poplar)," >>whereas a woman is "stroinaia kak berezka (birch)." I tend to use >>"slender" for women, and "lean" for men when translating "stroinaia/yi" >>into English. >> >>It seems the visual comparison of people to trees is a Slavic thing, and >>not really found in English. Or am I mistaken? Is there an English >>equivalent to "moguchii kak dub," or "gibkaia kak iva"? > >Well, there's "willowy," apparently used for men as well as women >(I've only heard it applied to impossibly proportioned model types). >I'm never sure what it means -- most likely tall and slender and >flexible-looking. >One online definition even used the term "pliant" ... no comment. >-FR > > >-- > >Francoise Rosset >Russian and Russian Studies >Interim Coordinator, Women's Studies >Wheaton College Norton, Massachusetts 02766 > phone: (508) 286-3696 >fax #: (508) 286-3640 >e-mail: FRosset at wheatonma.edu > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft� SmartScreen Technology http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN� Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Wed Apr 12 23:24:04 2006 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:24:04 -0700 Subject: zgrabne nogi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The dialogue of "bardzo zgrabne nogi" that I remember is exactly like Jim described, except in my case it came from this book, I believe: Mówimy po polsku. Bisko, Wacaw / Karolak, Stanisaw / Wasilewska, Danuta / Kryski, Stanisaw: Mówimy po polsku. A Beginners' Course of Polish. Warszawa: PW "Wiedza Powszechna", 1966/79. I was studying it in Leningrad in those days. Alina Alina, I happen to have just read the Polish excerpt you mentioned. It's from Oscar Swan, Intermediate Polish (I think--I have only a photocopied portion), pages 66-67. Marek is observing the ladies' umbrellas, and his friend Adam says, "Nie jestem pewien, czy obserwujesz parasolki, czy kobiety." [I'm not sure, if you are watching the umbrellas or the women.] Later Marek points out one particularly attractive umbrella, and Adam agrees, "No tak... Ta parasolka ma bardzo zgrabne nogi." [Well, yes... That umbrella has got a very fine pair of legs.] (Marek's wife, Agata, appears later.) Jim Tonn Slavic Languages and Literature Princeton University -- __________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Wed Apr 12 20:42:04 2006 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:42:04 -0400 Subject: "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thank you all, and I stand corrected: evidently, topol' is a unisex measure of "stroinost'" in Russian language and literature. To drill another hole in my own argument, I'll add to this list "Topolek moi v krasnoi kosynke." Of course, Aitmatov is not a Slavic writer, but the translator would not have used the diminutive of "topol'" (and probably would have opted for another tree) if the imagery did not ring a bell with the Russian readers. It is peculiar, though, that there are English analogies to both, iva and dub, and in the same sense they are applied in Russian. "Willowy" for a lithe female and "strong as oak" for a sturdy man. Thank you. IC -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Irene Delic Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 6:22 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry In Pushkin's Poltava we have the heroine Mariia likened to a kievskii topol' (Kak topol' kievskikh vysot,/ Ona stroina.) Irene Masing-Delic, Professor, The Ohio State University 400 Hagerty Hall 1775 College Road Columbus OH 43210-1215 tel.: 614-292-4726/6733 fax: 614-688-3107 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Inna Caron Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 10:09 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry Michael Holman wrote: >What about 'stroinaya'? It may seem a bit tame after all the other body-part >slang, but it's still a fine word with no immediately obvious universal >equivalent in English. True, there doesn't seem to be an analogous term in English. Thing is, even in Russian the visual association with this word somewhat differs when applied to men's and women's appearance. To go with the most common folk idiom, a man would be described as "stroinyi kak topol' (poplar)," whereas a woman is "stroinaia kak berezka (birch)." I tend to use "slender" for women, and "lean" for men when translating "stroinaia/yi" into English. It seems the visual comparison of people to trees is a Slavic thing, and not really found in English. Or am I mistaken? Is there an English equivalent to "moguchii kak dub," or "gibkaia kak iva"? Inna Caron Ohio State ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From msukholu at MAILCLERK.ECOK.EDU Wed Apr 12 20:45:08 2006 From: msukholu at MAILCLERK.ECOK.EDU (Mara Sukholutskaya) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 15:45:08 -0500 Subject: seeking native speakers of RUSSIAN only! Message-ID: I will gladly look at your questionnaire. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Yevgeny.Slivkin at MONTEREY.ARMY.MIL Wed Apr 12 21:41:01 2006 From: Yevgeny.Slivkin at MONTEREY.ARMY.MIL (Slivkin, Yevgeny) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 14:41:01 -0700 Subject: non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. Message-ID: Israeli wrote, "Slivkin's comment not withstanding (...)" "Slivkin's comment" about "piatka" was intended to be humorous. I believe everyone understood that. Speaking more seriously, the concept of aristocratic female beauty in the 18th and 19th centuries was based not on "piatka" of course but on "zapiast'e". The military officers' subculture of the late 19th century preserved a saying in reference to an ideal women: "taliia, kak dve shei, a sheia, kak dva zapiast'ia", thus a women's wrist was the base of the esthetic pyramid of a female body. Yevgeny Slivkin P.S. By the way, if Israeli insists, since Pushkin's Don Juan could not see Donna Anna's wrist under her long black cover, her "narrow hill" could be a semiotic substitution for her wrist. After all, the anatomy proves that if a women has narrow palms she has narrow feet as well. Yevgeny A. Slivkin, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Russian European and Latin American School Defense Language Institute Presidio of Monterey Monterey, California 93950 Of. 831. 643-0474 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Alina Israeli Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 5:28 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] non-bookish terms for "well-endowed," etc. Slivkin's comment not withstanding, >I do not know about the other Slavic cultures, but in Russian culture >which is still based on literature the most attractive part of femail >body is "piatka". culturally, not individually (I mean male-heterosexually, for which it is probably the same three body parts I alluded to with varying individual preference), I think it is "tonkaja talija" that is the main element of feminine body for the Russian culture (143 000 on lib.ru). "Uzkaja talija" and "osinaja talija" also qualify. Otherwise the woman must be "v tele". If one doesn't jive with the other, well, that's the Eurasian push and pull (and I am not attempting to open another can of worms). And here I must relate an anectode. When I was studying Polish in my youth, in one of the textbooks made in Poland with a record to go with it with all sorts of nice dialogues, there was one dialogue between a husband and wife (I think Janek and Agata), and he was late or something and as an apology he said that he was watching umbrellas (oglandam parasolki, if I remember it correctly), and she replied, no you are watching girls because they have "bardzo zgrabne nogi" (or maybe simply zgrabne nogi). I cannot recall any language textbook (and I studied a few) where women's legs would be part of elementary language course. In Italian only at the third year level did we encounter the pappagallismo italiano. Food for thought. As for "pjatka", I think men were more or less fed up with women's shoulders in Pushkin's time and were fantasizing about all the hidden body parts (just remember "Car' Nikita"). Somewhere else he wrote something about "edva najdetsja para strojnyx nog" or something like that, not that legs were on display like the shoulders, mini-skirts appeared 130 years later. As far as I remember Anatole Kuragin used to kiss the shoulders of his sister. Of course it could mean incest, but also that shoulders were like cheeks, always uncovered. __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET Wed Apr 12 23:04:22 2006 From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:04:22 -0700 Subject: "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I thought I remembered a line from Ethan Frome, "Ethan Frome was a great big oak of a man," but now I'm not finding it in the novel. I remember years ago having a discussion with a Russian translator who felt it was difficult to render this into Russian without making Mr. Frome sound like an utter oaf. But if people do say moguchii kak dub, I'm not sure what the issue was... Further on trees, I remember how striking I thought some of Pasternak's metaphors were when I first read him in English. There's a scene in Dr. Zhivago where he's been captured by the Whites (or the Reds, I forget) and buries his face in some snow-covered tree branches murmuring something like "I'll return to you, my slender rowan tree...," obviously making the tree-Lara comparison. However if this type of metaphor is not as striking in Russian then perhaps on a metatextual level one could argue it should have been rendered more mundanely (albeit less beautifully) in English. ------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 13:08:41 -0400 From: Inna Caron Subject: "stroinyi kak topol'" and other arboreal epithetry It seems the visual comparison of people to trees is a Slavic thing, and not really found in English. Or am I mistaken? Is there an English equivalent to "moguchii kak dub," or "gibkaia kak iva"? Inna Caron Ohio State Deborah Hoffman Finance Chair, Graduate Student Senate Modern and Classical Language Studies Kent State University http://users.ameritech.net/lino59/index.htm Stop the Genocide in Darfur: http://www.savedarfur.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From oastuch at UCDAVIS.EDU Wed Apr 12 23:26:57 2006 From: oastuch at UCDAVIS.EDU (Olga Stuchebrukhov) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2006 16:26:57 -0700 Subject: position at UC Davis Message-ID: Dear colleagues, the following position at UC Davis remains open for application: POSITION ANNOUNCEMENT Tenured Professor in RUSSIAN Director of the RUSSIAN Program Field Open University of California, Davis Russian Program One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 The Russian Program at UC Davis has an opening for a Senior Professor (Associate or Full) of Russian Literature and Civilization or Linguistics, to begin Fall 2006. The field is open. The candidate will also be expected to assume the Directorship of the Russian Program. Established scholar with impressive publication record. Knowledge of Russian culture highly desirable. Candidates with interdisciplinary link to film studies preferred. Applicants should possess a strong teaching record and a clear commitment to undergraduate education and development of overseas programs in Russian. General Education experience helpful. Near-native fluency in Russian required. Applicants should submit a cover letter including a statement of research and teaching interests, curriculum vitae, and the names and addresses of at least three (3) professional references to: Professor Winder McConnell, Search Committee Chair Russian Program University of California, Davis One Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kmfplatt at SAS.UPENN.EDU Thu Apr 13 05:05:40 2006 From: kmfplatt at SAS.UPENN.EDU (Kevin M. F. Platt) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 01:05:40 -0400 Subject: Upcoming Event at Penn: Russia and the World Message-ID: Dear Colleagues: On April 24th the Penn Slavic Department, in collaboration with the International League for Human RIghts, will be hosting a gathering of leaders of international NGOs working in Russia and Russian NGOs at Penn. I am writing to invite you to attend, and to encourage interested students and graduate students to attend as well. This will be a rare opportunity to participate first-hand in discussions of great significance and high public visibility. The purpose of the gathering is to discuss Russia's restrictive new NGO law and increasingly problematic record on human rights. As you know, these issues have been getting a good deal of press coverage in the past months and are becoming matters of important international concern, especially in light of the upcoming St. Petersburg G8 meetings. We expect the deliberations of this gathering to contribute in important ways to international public opinion concerning Russia's position in the world community. Please direct inquiries and (if possible) RSVP to me (off-list) at the address below, Assoc. Prof. Kevin M. F. Platt, Slavic Dept. PROGRAM: Russia and the World: The St. Petersburg G-8 and Beyond April 24, 2006 At the University of Pennsylvania The Crest Room, Arts Research and Culture House (the ARCH) 3601 Locust Walk Philadelphia, PA 10:00 a.m. – 11:30 a.m. Roundtable: Russia and Human Rights Oksana Chilysheva, Russian Chechen Friendship Society Robert Arsenault, International League for Human Rights Benjamin Nathans, History Department, University of Pennsylvania 1:00 p.m. – 2:30 p.m. Roundtable: Racism and Xenophobia Kirill Babichenko, Sakharov Fellow on Human Rights, Harvard University Arkady Leybovsky, Sakharov Fellow on Human Rights, Harvard University Rudra Sil, Politics Department, University of Pennsylvania Serguei Oushakine, Slavic Department, Princeton University 3:00 p.m. - 4:30 p.m. Roundtable Discussion: The New NGO Law and Its Consequences Irina Yasina, Open Russia Foundation Anastasia Aseyeva, Moscow Helsinki Group Aaron Rhodes, International Helsinki Federation William Burke-White, University of Pennsylvania Law School Contact to RSVP or for information: kmfplatt at sas.upenn.edu Made possible by the support of: The Office of the Provost, the School of Arts and Sciences, the Program in International Relations, the Politics Department and the History Department. Associate Professor Kevin M. F. Platt 745 Williams Hall 255 S. 36th Street University of Pennsylvania Philadelphia, PA 19104-6305 kmfplatt at sas.upenn.edu http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/slavic Tel: 215-746-0173 Fax: 215-573-7794 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lily.alexander at UTORONTO.CA Thu Apr 13 12:05:55 2006 From: lily.alexander at UTORONTO.CA (Lily Alexander) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:05:55 -0400 Subject: "kaverznye voprosy" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am trying to find an equivalent to "kaverznye voprosy" - which are intentionally playful, provoking, teasing, and controversial kind of questions. These questions may be nasty, but usually are harmless and fun. I went though all the possibilities with a colleagues, a native speaker, and we could not find an adequate translation into English. Any suggestions? My 2nd question is how to find the best translation of "prokurennyi golos kak u zeka," - speaking of a Stalin camp survivor, a lady and a professor. LA ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From katerina_list at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 13 12:16:28 2006 From: katerina_list at YAHOO.COM (Ekaterina Neklioudova) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 05:16:28 -0700 Subject: Slavic Mailing lists in Europe Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Is there any Slavic mailing lists for European countries? I am now residing in Europe and would be interested to have an access to them as well. Thank you, Ekaterina Neklyudova PhD student Slavic Languages and Literatures Stanford University __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexei.A.Glushchenko at PLC-OIL.RU Thu Apr 13 12:54:28 2006 From: Alexei.A.Glushchenko at PLC-OIL.RU (Glushchenko, Alexei A.) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 16:54:28 +0400 Subject: "kaverznye voprosy" Message-ID: > Lily Alexander > I am trying to find an equivalent to "kaverznye voprosy" - which are > intentionally playful, provoking, teasing, and controversial <...> === You don't think "trick question" would do the trick? > My 2nd question is how to find the best translation of "prokurennyi > golos kak u zeka," - speaking of a Stalin camp survivor, a lady and a > professor. === chain-smoking (cracked/gruff/gravelly/tobacco-roughened) voice of a Gulag prisoner? Alexei Glushchenko Ru<>En ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lily.alexander at UTORONTO.CA Thu Apr 13 12:53:16 2006 From: lily.alexander at UTORONTO.CA (Lily Alexander) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:53:16 -0400 Subject: "kaverznye voprosy" - options In-Reply-To: <568F881C9A75B94EB5E7D35B49E9B9D1B2FE62@plctest.plc.net> Message-ID: Thanks. But trick questions - typically on a test or exam - mean that they lead not where you think they lead. We tried it - it is not the same. Any other suggestions? Re: voice - may work - thanks Glushchenko, Alexei A. wrote: >>Lily Alexander >> >> > > > >>I am trying to find an equivalent to "kaverznye voprosy" - which are >>intentionally playful, provoking, teasing, and controversial <...> >> >> >=== >You don't think "trick question" would do the trick? > > > >>My 2nd question is how to find the best translation of "prokurennyi >>golos kak u zeka," - speaking of a Stalin camp survivor, a lady and a >>professor. >> >> >=== >chain-smoking (cracked/gruff/gravelly/tobacco-roughened) voice of a Gulag prisoner? > >Alexei Glushchenko >Ru<>En > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gasan.gusejnov at DW-WORLD.DE Thu Apr 13 13:01:41 2006 From: gasan.gusejnov at DW-WORLD.DE (Gasan Gusejnov) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:01:41 +0200 Subject: AW: [SEELANGS] Slavic Mailing lists in Europe In-Reply-To: <20060413121628.39706.qmail@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Katya, enjoy the German segment: http://www.osteuropa-netzwerk.de/ Esp.: http://www.joe-list.de/ Bonn-Aachen-Düsseldorf-Köln http://www.slavistik.uni-bonn.de/mailingliste.html gg http://www.osteuropa.uni-bonn.de/mitarbeiter/ggusejnov.htm -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] Im Auftrag von Ekaterina Neklioudova Gesendet: Donnerstag, 13. April 2006 14:16 An: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Betreff: [SEELANGS] Slavic Mailing lists in Europe Dear Colleagues, Is there any Slavic mailing lists for European countries? I am now residing in Europe and would be interested to have an access to them as well. Thank you, Ekaterina Neklyudova PhD student Slavic Languages and Literatures Stanford University __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexei.A.Glushchenko at PLC-OIL.RU Thu Apr 13 13:13:55 2006 From: Alexei.A.Glushchenko at PLC-OIL.RU (Glushchenko, Alexei A.) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:13:55 +0400 Subject: "kaverznye voprosy" - options Message-ID: > But trick questions - typically on a test or exam - mean that > they lead not where you think they lead. We tried it - it is > not the same. Any other suggestions? === Sinuous questions? Alexei Glushchenko ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From imendoza at LMU.DE Thu Apr 13 13:16:01 2006 From: imendoza at LMU.DE (=?windows-1252?Q?Imke_Mendoza?=) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:16:01 -0400 Subject: POS II: Third Call for Papers and Extension of Deadline Message-ID: Third Call for Papers and Extension of Deadline The Departments of Slavic Studies at the Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität in Munich and the Universität Regensburg are pleased to announce the Second International “Perspectives on Slavistics” Conference The conference will take place in Regensburg, Germany, September 21-24, 2006. The goals of the conference are to encourage the study of Slavic languages and literatures and to establish connections among scholars working in these areas. There will be three parallel sections, two focusing on literature and cultural studies, the third one reserved for linguistics. The linguistics section will have the honour to host the 6th Annual Conference of the Slavic Cognitive Linguistics Association. The following keynote lectures will be presented: Language Mixing and Language Separation in Bilingual Russian-German Children (Tanja Anstatt) Features: Slavonic and Typological Perspectives (Greville Corbett) Speaking from the Inside: Stories of Everyday Life in Russia (Catriona Kelly) On the Discourse of National Identity in Russian Culture (Renata von Maydell) Fundamentals of Ego-Linguistics. Self-reference, Self-centred Speech Acts, and Related Phenomena in Contemporary Russian (Daniel Weiss) Fiction and Individuality (Georg Witte) Submissions from any scholar working on Slavic languages or literatures are welcomed, including those in Slavic departments, as well as in specialized linguistics or literature departments. We particularly want to encourage young scholars to participate in this conference. Papers will be considered on topics relating to the diachronic or synchronic study of Slavic languages and literatures from any theoretical perspective. Each paper will be allowed thirty minutes (including 10 minutes for discussion). The deadline for submissions has been extended to April 30th 2006 (abstract specifications see below). Presentations should be in English in order to open the conference up to researchers working on non-Slavic languages and literatures. The participation fee will be 50 euros (25 for graduate students and passive participants), to be paid in advance. Detailed information on payment options & deadlines and hotel accommodation will be provided by May 2006. The participation fee covers the abstract booklet, other conference materials, refreshments and snacks. A limited number of participants from economically disadvantaged countries may be allowed free participation upon application. Please include a motivated application for free participation when sending in your abstract. In assigning waivers priority will be given to graduate students and non-tenured scholars. Please, do not hesitate to contact us for further details or questions (pos2 (at)slav.fak12.uni-muenchen.de). Abstract specifications: The abstracts should not exceed 500 words (plus an additional page for tables, graphs and references, if necessary). Please use MS Word for Windows and Times New Roman or MS Word for Apple and TimesCE or Unicode text. Make sure to use the international transcription in case you work on languages with a Cyrillic alphabet. Your abstract should present a hypothesis and outline your plan for defending that hypothesis, i.e. it should specify research question(s), an approach/method to the data, and obtained results. Each abstract will be anonymously reviewed by independent reviewers. Please, send your name, address, affiliation and the title of your abstract by e-mail. The text of the abstract should be sent in an attached file. This file should not include the author's name. Submit your abstract to pos2 (at)slav.fak12.uni-muenchen.de by April 15th 2006. Notifications of the Organizing Committee’s decisions will be sent out by May 31st 2006. Prof. Dr. Björn Hansen Dr. Roland Meyer Universität Regensburg Universitätsstr. 27 D-93040 Regensburg PD Dr. Imke Mendoza Miriam Finkelstein, M.A. Ludwig-Maximilians-Universität München Geschwister-Scholl Pl. 1 D-80539 München Conference webpage: http://www-slavistik.uni-regensburg.de/pos/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM Thu Apr 13 13:54:04 2006 From: tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM (Timothy Sergay) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 09:54:04 -0400 Subject: "kaverznye voprosy" - options In-Reply-To: <443E49BC.6030907@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Dear Lily Alexander, If you're going to ask for translation help on a single word or a tiny collocation, then please be considerate enough to provide the fullest possible context for your item with your very first query, or you will just be wasting the time of anyone who tries to help you. "We tried it -- it's not the same" is of no help to consultants, and also irritating. I would think about "leading questions," but again, what do I know? "Sinuous question" appears as a solution to "kaverznyi [izvilistyi] vopros" on a worksheet on translating Ulitskaya's "Bron'ka" for a Notre Dame course (http://www.slavdom.com/ courses/pslit/index.php?lang=en&parent=104). But I find "sinuous question" strange, myself, and googling for that collocation results in only one vaguely native anglophone token, if you discount a handful of "sinuous question MARK," which is a different idea. Tim Sergay On Apr 13, 2006, at 8:53 AM, Lily Alexander wrote: > Thanks. > > But trick questions - typically on a test or exam - mean that they > lead not where you think they lead. We tried it - it is not the same. > Any other suggestions? > > Re: voice - may work - thanks > > Glushchenko, Alexei A. wrote: > >>> Lily Alexander >>> >> >> >>> I am trying to find an equivalent to "kaverznye voprosy" - which >>> are intentionally playful, provoking, teasing, and controversial >>> <...> >>> >> === >> You don't think "trick question" would do the trick? >> >> >>> My 2nd question is how to find the best translation of >>> "prokurennyi golos kak u zeka," - speaking of a Stalin camp >>> survivor, a lady and a professor. >>> >> === >> chain-smoking (cracked/gruff/gravelly/tobacco-roughened) voice of >> a Gulag prisoner? >> >> Alexei Glushchenko >> Ru<>En >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >> subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >> at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM Thu Apr 13 14:17:17 2006 From: tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM (Timothy Sergay) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:17:17 -0400 Subject: "kaverznye voprosy" - options In-Reply-To: <568F881C9A75B94EB5E7D35B49E9B9D1A78DC6@plctest.plc.net> Message-ID: A "trick question" can be a deliberate trap ("proval'nyi vopros," "vopros na zasypku"), but "tricky question" is different, and might help. Apresyan also lists "sinuous question" (maybe I just haven't encountered this before) and also "sixty-four dollar question." Tim On Apr 13, 2006, at 9:13 AM, Glushchenko, Alexei A. wrote: >> But trick questions - typically on a test or exam - mean that >> they lead not where you think they lead. We tried it - it is >> not the same. Any other suggestions? > === > Sinuous questions? > > Alexei Glushchenko > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM Thu Apr 13 14:33:57 2006 From: tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM (Timothy Sergay) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:33:57 -0400 Subject: Kaverznyi vopros: $64,000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oops! It's of course sixty-four THOUSAND dollar question (thank you, Alina). Apresyan had it wrong, too, and I copied it without reflecting on it. The title of a TV game show in which this amount was the stake, I believe. The sense is, though, a bit deflected from what it seems you're after. "That's the $64,000 question" means "that's the issue on which everything hinges [depends]," in other words, if we only knew the answer to THAT question, everything else would be clear [simple to accomplish]. On Apr 13, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Timothy Sergay wrote: > A "trick question" can be a deliberate trap ("proval'nyi vopros," > "vopros na zasypku"), but "tricky question" is different, and might > help. Apresyan also lists "sinuous question" (maybe I just haven't > encountered this before) and also "sixty-four dollar question." > > Tim > > On Apr 13, 2006, at 9:13 AM, Glushchenko, Alexei A. wrote: > >>> But trick questions - typically on a test or exam - mean that >>> they lead not where you think they lead. We tried it - it is >>> not the same. Any other suggestions? >> === >> Sinuous questions? >> >> Alexei Glushchenko >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >> subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web >> Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From townsend at PRINCETON.EDU Thu Apr 13 14:36:02 2006 From: townsend at PRINCETON.EDU (Charles Townsend) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 10:36:02 -0400 Subject: "kaverznye voprosy" - options In-Reply-To: <5CFA0F94-9512-47D8-8587-49866D580C29@columbus.rr.com> Message-ID: On Apr 13, 2006, at 9:54 AM, Timothy Sergay wrote: > Dear Lily Alexander, > > If you're going to ask for translation help on a single word or a > tiny collocation, then please be considerate enough to provide the > fullest possible context for your item with your very first query, or > you will just be wasting the time of anyone who tries to help you. "We > tried it -- it's not the same" is of no help to consultants, and also > irritating. I would think about "leading questions," but again, what > do I know? "Sinuous question" appears as a solution to "kaverznyi > [izvilistyi] vopros" on a worksheet on translating Ulitskaya's > "Bron'ka" for a Notre Dame course > (http://www.slavdom.com/courses/pslit/index.php?lang=en&parent=104). > But I find "sinuous question" strange, myself, and googling for that > collocation results in only one vaguely native anglophone token, if > you discount a handful of "sinuous question MARK," which is a > different idea. > > Tim Sergay > > On Apr 13, 2006, at 8:53 AM, Lily Alexander wrote: > >> Thanks. >> >> But trick questions - typically on a test or exam - mean that they >> lead not where you think they lead. We tried it - it is not the same. >> Any other suggestions? >> >> Re: voice - may work - thanks >> >> Glushchenko, Alexei A. wrote: >> >>>> Lily Alexander >>>> >>> >>> >>>> I am trying to find an equivalent to "kaverznye voprosy" - which >>>> are intentionally playful, provoking, teasing, and controversial >>>> <...> >>>> >>> === >>> You don't think "trick question" would do the trick? >>> >>> >>>> My 2nd question is how to find the best translation of "prokurennyi >>>> golos kak u zeka," - speaking of a Stalin camp survivor, a lady and >>>> a professor. >>>> >>> === >>> chain-smoking (cracked/gruff/gravelly/tobacco-roughened) voice of a >>> Gulag prisoner? >>> >>> Alexei Glushchenko >>> Ru<>En >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>> subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >>> at: >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU Thu Apr 13 15:54:16 2006 From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (Wayles Browne) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 11:54:16 -0400 Subject: Kaverznyi vopros: $64,000 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tim can be right and Apresyan can be right too. The original game-show was on the radio in the 1940's, "Take it or Leave it", and had a $64 question. Then TV came along and, with it, inflation of the prize amounts, and there was indeed a show called "The 64 thousand dollar question". See http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/wftwarch.pl?060705 (the site of the Merriam-Webster Company, which publishes dictionaries). At 10:33 -0400 4/13/06, Timothy Sergay wrote: >Oops! It's of course sixty-four THOUSAND dollar question (thank you, >Alina). Apresyan had it wrong, too, and I copied it without >reflecting on it. The title of a TV game show in which this amount >was the stake, I believe. The sense is, though, a bit deflected from >what it seems you're after. "That's the $64,000 question" means >"that's the issue on which everything hinges [depends]," in other >words, if we only knew the answer to THAT question, everything else >would be clear [simple to accomplish]. > >On Apr 13, 2006, at 10:17 AM, Timothy Sergay wrote: > >>A "trick question" can be a deliberate trap ("proval'nyi vopros," >>"vopros na zasypku"), but "tricky question" is different, and might >>help.  Apresyan also lists "sinuous question" (maybe I just haven't >>encountered this before) and also "sixty-four dollar question." >> >>Tim -- Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics Department of Linguistics Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From M.J.BERRY.RUS at BHAM.AC.UK Thu Apr 13 16:32:38 2006 From: M.J.BERRY.RUS at BHAM.AC.UK (Michael Berry) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:32:38 +0100 Subject: Slavic Mailing lists in Europe Message-ID: There are two UK based lists: russian-studies and russian-teaching - neither is as active as Seelangs...Russian-studies has about 250 members. To join russian-studies go to www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/russian-studies.html and click on the heading: 'To join or leave the list' The procedure is the same for russian-teaching. Please contact me if you have any problems - I am the 'co-list-owner' of Russian-studies. Best wishes, Mike Berry, CREES, University of BIrmingham, UK. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Thu Apr 13 16:49:51 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 12:49:51 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: QUERY: Pome de Maakovski] Message-ID: Dear colleagues, A francophone colleague poses the following query: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: QUERY: Poème de Maïakovski Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:28:35 +0200 From: Gotzon Egia J'aurais besoin de savoir si quelqu'un pouvait identifier cet extrait d'un poème de Maïakovski : « Moi qui croyais que tu étais un gigantesque Dieu omnipotent, je vois que tu n’es qu’un petit raté, un dieusaillon minime. Regarde bien ! Je vais me baisser à présent pour retirer un long surin de ma bottine. » La citation apparaît au début du film « Les États nordiques », de Denis Côté. Synopsis: Gotzon Egia would like to know if anyone can recognize the Mayakovsky poem quoted (in French translation) above. It appeared at the beginning of the film /Les États nordiques/ aka /Drifting States/ by Denis Côté. If anyone here knows the answer, please reply directly. Thank you. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From k.r.hauge at ILOS.UIO.NO Thu Apr 13 17:37:21 2006 From: k.r.hauge at ILOS.UIO.NO (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kjetil_R=E5_Hauge?=) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 20:37:21 +0300 Subject: Slavic Mailing lists in Europe In-Reply-To: <20060413121628.39706.qmail@web34301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ekaterina Neklioudova wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Is there any Slavic mailing lists for European > countries? I am now residing in Europe and would be > interested to have an access to them as well. NordicSlav covers the Nordic countries - low-traffic and mostly postings in Nordic languages. You can join at this page (which is in English): -- --- Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo (on sabbatical in Sofia, Bulgaria) --- tel +359/29434244, mobile +359/899725606, fax +1/5084372444 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dhh2 at COLUMBIA.EDU Thu Apr 13 17:23:06 2006 From: dhh2 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Diana Howansky) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 13:23:06 -0400 Subject: Language Issue and the Ukrainian Elite Message-ID: For those who take interest in the language issue in Ukraine, please note the latest article of Dr. Yuri Shevchuk (lecturer of Ukrainian language and culture at Columbia University), titled “Language Issue and the Ukrainian Elite,” which was published today in Ukrainian on the "Telekrytyka" webpage at: http://www.telekritika.kiev.ua/articles/176/0/7115 -- Diana Howansky Staff Associate Ukrainian Studies Program Columbia University Room 1208, MC3345 420 W. 118th Street New York, NY 10027 (212) 854-4697 ukrainianstudies at columbia.edu http://www.harrimaninstitute.org/courses/ukrainian_studies_program.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From irene at HIPERISM.COM Thu Apr 13 21:08:19 2006 From: irene at HIPERISM.COM (Irene Delic) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 14:08:19 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: QUERY: Po=?Windows-1252?Q?=E8me_de_Ma=EFakov?= ski] In-Reply-To: <443E812F.5070505@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: This seems to be from A Cloud in Trousers, section 4: Ia dumal-ty vsesil'nyi bozhishche,/ a ty nedouchka, krokhotnyi bozhik. Vidish, ia nagibaius',/iz-za golenishcha/dostaiu sapozhnyi nozhik. I say "seems" since my French is not that good, but I thought I recognized the passage. Irene Masing-Delic, Professor, The Ohio State University 400 Hagerty Hall 1775 College Road Columbus OH 43210-1215 tel.: 614-292-4726/6733 fax: 614-688-3107 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU]On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 9:50 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] [Fwd: QUERY: Poème de Maïakovski] Dear colleagues, A francophone colleague poses the following query: -------- Original Message -------- Subject: QUERY: Poème de Maïakovski Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:28:35 +0200 From: Gotzon Egia J'aurais besoin de savoir si quelqu'un pouvait identifier cet extrait d'un poème de Maïakovski : « Moi qui croyais que tu étais un gigantesque Dieu omnipotent, je vois que tu n’es qu’un petit raté, un dieusaillon minime. Regarde bien ! Je vais me baisser à présent pour retirer un long surin de ma bottine. » La citation apparaît au début du film « Les États nordiques », de Denis Côté. Synopsis: Gotzon Egia would like to know if anyone can recognize the Mayakovsky poem quoted (in French translation) above. It appeared at the beginning of the film /Les États nordiques/ aka /Drifting States/ by Denis Côté. If anyone here knows the answer, please reply directly. Thank you. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From d344630 at ER.UQAM.CA Thu Apr 13 19:47:55 2006 From: d344630 at ER.UQAM.CA (Saskia Ouaknine) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:47:55 -0400 Subject: QUERY: Po=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=E8me_de_Ma=EFakovski?= In-Reply-To: <443E812F.5070505@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: Dear Paul, It's from "Le nuage en pantalon" (obloko v chtanakh). I'll give the answer in French, since it's for your francophone colleague: La citation est tirée du poème Le Nuage en pantalon, une oeuvre de 1914. Dans "Poèmes, tome 1", l'extrait de ce poème traduit par Claude Frioux pour le compte des Éditions de L'Harmattan en 2000, va comme suit: Je pensais que tu étais un grand dieu plein de force, mais tu es un ignorant, un pauvre petit dieu de rien du tout. Tu vois je me penche, pour prendre dans la tige de ma botte mon tranchoir de cordonnier. L'extrait apparaît à la page 111. Si vous souhaitez identifier le traducteur de la version telle qu'elle apparaît dans votre courriel, faites-le moi savoir et je chercherai dans mes autres traductions de ce poème. sincèrement, Saskia Ouaknine saskia at fra.net Surlignage "Paul B. Gallagher" : > Dear colleagues, > > A francophone colleague poses the following query: > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: QUERY: Poème de Maïakovski > Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:28:35 +0200 > From: Gotzon Egia > > J'aurais besoin de savoir si quelqu'un pouvait identifier cet extrait > d'un poème de Maïakovski : > > « Moi qui croyais que tu étais un gigantesque Dieu omnipotent, je vois > que tu n’es qu’un petit raté, un dieusaillon minime. Regarde bien ! Je > vais me baisser à présent pour retirer un long surin de ma bottine. » > > La citation apparaît au début du film « Les États nordiques », de Denis > Côté. > > > Synopsis: Gotzon Egia would like to know if anyone can recognize the > Mayakovsky poem quoted (in French translation) above. It appeared at the > beginning of the film /Les États nordiques/ aka /Drifting States/ by > Denis Côté. > > If anyone here knows the answer, please reply directly. Thank you. > > -- > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. > -- > Paul B. Gallagher > pbg translations, inc. > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" > http://pbg-translations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------- Uqam Service IMP: http://www.er.uqam.ca/courrier ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Thu Apr 13 21:14:10 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 17:14:10 -0400 Subject: QUERY: Po=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=A8me_de_Ma=C3=AFakovski?= In-Reply-To: <1144957675.443eaaebdbc2b@courriel1.sitel.uqam.ca> Message-ID: Thanks to Saskia Ouaknine and Irene Delic for identifying «Облако в штанах». Even though their replies went to the list, Gotzon and I are still gratful. >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: QUERY: Poème de Maïakovski >> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 18:28:35 +0200 >> From: Gotzon Egia >> >> J'aurais besoin de savoir si quelqu'un pouvait identifier cet >> extrait d'un poème de Maïakovski : >> >> « Moi qui croyais que tu étais un gigantesque Dieu omnipotent, je >> vois que tu n’es qu’un petit raté, un dieusaillon minime. Regarde >> bien ! Je vais me baisser à présent pour retirer un long surin de >> ma bottine. » >> >> La citation apparaît au début du film « Les États nordiques », de >> Denis Côté. >> >> >> Synopsis: Gotzon Egia would like to know if anyone can recognize >> the Mayakovsky poem quoted (in French translation) above. It >> appeared at the beginning of the film /Les États nordiques/ aka >> /Drifting States/ by Denis Côté. >> >> If anyone here knows the answer, please reply directly. Thank you. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Thu Apr 13 22:15:03 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 15:15:03 -0700 Subject: Infrastruktura = material'no-tekhnicheskaya baza? In-Reply-To: <20060411232339.97867.qmail@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Steve Marder wrote:I feel that “infrastructure” is part of MTB, but not synonymous with it. .....................According to what I was said, these are still different things in Russian, and "infrastruktura" is "shire" than MTB. It still covers many things which "predprijatie" doesn't need to produce smth, like "skladskie pomeshchenija", "dochernie predprijatija", "obshchezhitija", etc. But these things belong now really to "infrastruktura predprijatija" unless it managed to get rid of it. Most kindergartens or hostels were "peredany v komunal'nuju sobstvennost' goroda". So I saved in my mind that what Paul Gallagher said, meaning that the best English word for MTB is infrastructure, but you, guys, remember that in Russian "infrastruktura" and MTB are actually different things. Poka poka. MV --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU Fri Apr 14 07:42:54 2006 From: s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU (Prof Steven P Hill) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 02:42:54 -0500 Subject: correct Ukrainian orthography? Message-ID: Dear colleagues: An old Ukrainian folk musician, Pawlo H., has just made history in the USA, by being included in the Library of Congress's annual honors list of great sound recordings of the past. (Excerpts from the LC's media announcement are attached below, with the Ukrainian violinist Number 8 in the honors list.) But the LC cannot seem to decide how to SPELL his surname. Can any of you historians, either of Ukrainian culture or of folk music, perhaps establish the CORRECT orthography for his surname? I'll be glad to forward the correct spelling to the LC's press representative, in case they need to make some correction in their official honors list. -- Steven P Hill, University of Illinois. __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 02:10:26 -0400 From: Subject: Re: GETPOST AMIA-L To: Steven P Hill From: Association of Moving Image Archivists Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:58 PM To: AMIA-L at LSV.UKY.EDU Subject: New National Recording Registry announced LIBRARY OF CONGRESS 101 Independence Av SE Washington DC 20540 Phone: (202) 707-2905 Fax: (202) 707-9199 Email: pao at loc.gov April 11, 2006 Press contact: Sheryl Cannady (202) 707-6456 Librarian of Congress Names 50 Recordings to the 2005 National Recording Registry Librarian of Congress James H. Billington has made his annual selection of 50 sound recordings for the National Recording Registry. Under the terms of the National Recording Preservation Act of 2000, the Librarian is responsible for annually selecting recordings that are .culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant. [ .... ] The National Recording Registry was created by the National Recording Preservation Act of 2000, legislation that promotes and supports audio preservation. The registry celebrates the richness and variety of the nation.s audio legacy and underscores the responsibility to assure the long- term preservation of that legacy for future generations. Nominations for the registry were gathered from members of the public, who submitted suggestions online (www.loc.gov/nrpb/), and from the National Recording Preservation Board, which comprises leaders in the fields of music, recorded sound and preservation. [ .... ] The Library of Congress is the nation's oldest federal cultural institution and the world's largest library with more than 132 million items, which includes nearly 2.8 million sound recordings. The Library's Recorded Sound Section holds the largest number of radio broadcasts in the United States . more than 500,000. A selection of audio excerpts and images will be available to the press through April 18 at www.loc.gov/2005 National Recording Registry __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ ___ NATIONAL RECORDING REGISTRY ANNOUNCED 2005 National Recording Registry (in chronological order) 1. .Canzone del Porter. from .Martha (von Flotow),. Edouard de Reszke (1903) 2. .Listen to the Lambs,. Hampton Quartette; recorded by Natalie Curtis Burlin (1917) 3. .Over There,. Nora Bayes (1917) 4. .Crazy Blues,. Mamie Smith (1920) 5. .My Man. and .Second Hand Rose,. Fanny Brice (1921) 6. .Ory.s Creole Trombone,. Kid Ory (June 1922) 7. .Inauguration of Calvin Coolidge (March 4, 1925) 8. .Tanec pid werbamy/Dance Under the Willows,. Pawlo Huemiuk (1926) 9. .Singin. the Blues,. Frankie Trumbauer and his Orchestra with Bix Beiderbecke (1927) [ .... ] _ ___ __ __ _ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ _ ___ __ 2005 National Recording Registry (in chronological order) [ .... ] 5. .My Man. and .Second Hand Rose,. Fanny Brice (1921) Performed by Fanny Brice in the .Ziegfeld Follies of 1921,. .My Man. & .2d Hand Rose. were recorded by Victor Records the same year & issued together on a double-faced 78-rpm disc. Known for her comedic songs in Yiddish & other dialects, Brice was in the midst of marital woes when she recorded .My Man.. Audiences, connecting strongly with her passionate performance, concluded she was singing about herself. .2d Hand Rose. was a follow-up to a previous hit song,.Rose of Washington Square,. & was a rare instance of the sequel excelling its predecessor. [ .... ] 8. .Tanec pid werbamy/Dance Under the Willows,. a Ukrainian violin solo with cymbaly, bass and sleigh bells, Pawlo Huemiuk (1926) Pawlo Humeniuk was a renowned violin player in Ukranian communities before beginning his recording career with Columbia, for which he made this dance number. He learned violin in western Ukraine at the age of 6 and enjoyed a busy career playing concerts, dances and vaudeville theaters. The song is an excellent example of the ethnic releases that record labels began to produce in the 1920's for sale to immigrant communities in the United States. [ .... ] __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ ___ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From djbpitt+seelangs at pitt.edu Fri Apr 14 13:28:35 2006 From: djbpitt+seelangs at pitt.edu (David J Birnbaum) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:28:35 -0400 Subject: Summer Russian Teaching Position Message-ID: Russian Position - Summer The Summer Language Institute at the University of Pittsburgh, an intensive Russian and East European language program of over 100 students from all over the US, is accepting applications for an intensive Russian instructor, most likely at the fourth-year level. The dates are June 5 - July 28, 2006. Competitive salary, benefits and housing are provided. Interested applicants should send CVs to the attention of Dr. Oscar Swan at slavic at pitt.edu, or contact Christine Metil at 412-624-5906. Christine Metil Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures 1417 Cathedral of Learning University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 15260 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nshostak at STMCOLLEGE.CA Fri Apr 14 15:51:40 2006 From: nshostak at STMCOLLEGE.CA (Natalia Shostak) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 09:51:40 -0600 Subject: correct Ukrainian orthography? Message-ID: As far as Pawlo Humeniuk, "the King of the Ukrainian Fillders," is concerned, "Humeniuk" is already an appropriate way of rendering this common Ukrainian surname in English. When it comes down to his first name, it could be spelled as 'Pavlo.' But if Humeniuk himself was using Pawlo (which reflects the 'Polish spelling' of this Ukrainian name), then it would be highly appropriate to retain this spelling of his first name as well. Natalia Shostak, PhD Associate Professor Religious Studies and Anthropology St. Thomas More College University of Saskatchewan -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list on behalf of Prof Steven P Hill Sent: Fri 4/14/2006 1:42 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] correct Ukrainian orthography? Dear colleagues: An old Ukrainian folk musician, Pawlo H., has just made history in the USA, by being included in the Library of Congress's annual honors list of great sound recordings of the past. (Excerpts from the LC's media announcement are attached below, with the Ukrainian violinist Number 8 in the honors list.) But the LC cannot seem to decide how to SPELL his surname. Can any of you historians, either of Ukrainian culture or of folk music, perhaps establish the CORRECT orthography for his surname? I'll be glad to forward the correct spelling to the LC's press representative, in case they need to make some correction in their official honors list. -- Steven P Hill, University of Illinois. __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _ Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 02:10:26 -0400 From: Subject: Re: GETPOST AMIA-L To: Steven P Hill From: Association of Moving Image Archivists Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:58 PM To: AMIA-L at LSV.UKY.EDU Subject: New National Recording Registry announced LIBRARY OF CONGRESS 101 Independence Av SE Washington DC 20540 Phone: (202) 707-2905 Fax: (202) 707-9199 Email: pao at loc.gov April 11, 2006 Press contact: Sheryl Cannady (202) 707-6456 Librarian of Congress Names 50 Recordings to the 2005 National Recording Registry Librarian of Congress James H. Billington has made his annual selection of 50 sound recordings for the National Recording Registry. Under the terms of the National Recording Preservation Act of 2000, the Librarian is responsible for annually selecting recordings that are .culturally, historically, or aesthetically significant. [ .... ] The National Recording Registry was created by the National Recording Preservation Act of 2000, legislation that promotes and supports audio preservation. The registry celebrates the richness and variety of the nation.s audio legacy and underscores the responsibility to assure the long- term preservation of that legacy for future generations. Nominations for the registry were gathered from members of the public, who submitted suggestions online (www.loc.gov/nrpb/), and from the National Recording Preservation Board, which comprises leaders in the fields of music, recorded sound and preservation. [ .... ] The Library of Congress is the nation's oldest federal cultural institution and the world's largest library with more than 132 million items, which includes nearly 2.8 million sound recordings. The Library's Recorded Sound Section holds the largest number of radio broadcasts in the United States . more than 500,000. A selection of audio excerpts and images will be available to the press through April 18 at www.loc.gov/2005 National Recording Registry __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ ___ NATIONAL RECORDING REGISTRY ANNOUNCED 2005 National Recording Registry (in chronological order) 1. .Canzone del Porter. from .Martha (von Flotow),. Edouard de Reszke (1903) 2. .Listen to the Lambs,. Hampton Quartette; recorded by Natalie Curtis Burlin (1917) 3. .Over There,. Nora Bayes (1917) 4. .Crazy Blues,. Mamie Smith (1920) 5. .My Man. and .Second Hand Rose,. Fanny Brice (1921) 6. .Ory.s Creole Trombone,. Kid Ory (June 1922) 7. .Inauguration of Calvin Coolidge (March 4, 1925) 8. .Tanec pid werbamy/Dance Under the Willows,. Pawlo Huemiuk (1926) 9. .Singin. the Blues,. Frankie Trumbauer and his Orchestra with Bix Beiderbecke (1927) [ .... ] _ ___ __ __ _ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ _ ___ __ 2005 National Recording Registry (in chronological order) [ .... ] 5. .My Man. and .Second Hand Rose,. Fanny Brice (1921) Performed by Fanny Brice in the .Ziegfeld Follies of 1921,. .My Man. & .2d Hand Rose. were recorded by Victor Records the same year & issued together on a double-faced 78-rpm disc. Known for her comedic songs in Yiddish & other dialects, Brice was in the midst of marital woes when she recorded .My Man.. Audiences, connecting strongly with her passionate performance, concluded she was singing about herself. .2d Hand Rose. was a follow-up to a previous hit song,.Rose of Washington Square,. & was a rare instance of the sequel excelling its predecessor. [ .... ] 8. .Tanec pid werbamy/Dance Under the Willows,. a Ukrainian violin solo with cymbaly, bass and sleigh bells, Pawlo Huemiuk (1926) Pawlo Humeniuk was a renowned violin player in Ukranian communities before beginning his recording career with Columbia, for which he made this dance number. He learned violin in western Ukraine at the age of 6 and enjoyed a busy career playing concerts, dances and vaudeville theaters. The song is an excellent example of the ethnic releases that record labels began to produce in the 1920's for sale to immigrant communities in the United States. [ .... ] __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ ___ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From JLabendz at ACADEMIC-TRAVEL.COM Fri Apr 14 17:11:09 2006 From: JLabendz at ACADEMIC-TRAVEL.COM (Jacob Labendz) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:11:09 -0400 Subject: Photography Study-Abroad Track in Prague Message-ID: CET Academic Programs (www.cetacademicprograms.com ) is pleased to announce the launch of a photography track on our Central European Studies in Prague program. Dear Colleagues: I am pleased to announce that we have added a new photography track to CET's Central European Studies in Prague program (CES). This new program, to launch this fall, is designed for the academically serious student seeking a challenging and rewarding experience abroad. Participating students who elect to take part in the photography track will be full-fledged CES students and will engage in a number of extracurricular activities and trips arranged by our Resident Director. Students will enroll in two photography-related courses, one in theory and one a practicum. For their remaining courses, students will take the required CES classes ("Politics and Culture in East Central Europe since 1918" and "Czech Language"), plus one elective from among our many engaging courses. If you or your students would like to apply to the upcoming fall term in Prague, we are accepting applications for both our Jewish Studies and Central European Studies programs on a rolling basis until May 1, 2006. For more information on CET's Prague programs, please visit www.cetacademicprograms.com or contact CET at (800) 225-4262. We look forward to hopefully hosting your students in the Czech Republic in the future. Sincerely, Jacob Labendz Prague Programs Manager CET Academic Programs jlabendz at academic-travel.com (800) 225-4262 ext. 7372 Jacob Labendz Prague Programs Manager CET Academic Programs - Innovators in Study Abroad since 1982 1920 N Street NW, Suite 200 Washington, DC 20036 Mailing Address: 507 Manhattan Avenue Apartment 4 New York, NY 10027 Phone: (800) 225-4262 ext. 7372 DC Fax: (202) 342-0317 Personal Fax: (815) 361-0994 Visit us on the web at: www.cetacademicprograms.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From benjamin.rifkin at TEMPLE.EDU Fri Apr 14 17:13:58 2006 From: benjamin.rifkin at TEMPLE.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 13:13:58 -0400 Subject: AATSEEL Elections Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers: If you are a member of AATSEEL, you should have gotten notification by e-mail of our election process. If you have paid dues for 2006 or are a life-member, you may go to: http://aatseel.org Click on members only link. (You may have to create a password for yourself if you haven't done so previously.) Click on link for elections. And vote: Ballots may be submitted ONLY through the web and only through April 24, 2006. If you have not paid dues for 2006, you may do so on-line and then vote in the election. Candidates running for office in this election: For President: Caryl Emerson and Jane Hacking For Vice President (1): Daniela Hristova and Keith Langston For Vice President (2): Jeanette Owen and Boris Wolfson Thank you for participating in this important process. Sincerely, Ben Rifkin Past President of AATSEEL and Chair of AATSEEL Nominations and Awards Committee -- Benjamin Rifkin Professor of Russian and Vice Dean for Undergraduate Affairs College of Liberal Arts, Temple University 1206 Anderson Hall, 1114 W. Berks St. Philadelphia, PA 19122 USA Voice 215-204-1816 Fax 215-204-3731 www.temple.edu/cla www.temple.edu/fgis/rifkin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA Fri Apr 14 10:14:37 2006 From: natalia.pylypiuk at UALBERTA.CA (Natalia Pylypiuk) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 04:14:37 -0600 Subject: correct Ukrainian orthography? Pavlo Humeniuk In-Reply-To: <35ca765c.a8bc2796.81cb500@expms6.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Dear Professor Hill, I have recordings by the famous fiddler HUMENIUK. The form *Huemiuk* in note 8 (cited below in blue) is merely a typographical error. No such name exists in Ukrainian. If we were to transliterate his name from Ukrainian, it would be Pavlo Humeniuk, according to the Library of Congress system, and Pavlo Humenjuk, according to the International Standard. His *Dance under the Willows* would be: Tanets' pid verbamy, according to the Library of Congress system, and Tanec' pid verbamy, according to the International Standard. The fiddler is known as Pawlo (instead of the expected Pavlo) Humeniuk in the literature, because he came from Western Ukraine to the USA in 1902, at a time when the Polish (and/or German) alphabet would have been used to render his name in the passport and other official documents. In the 1920s the names of his songs on the various recording were also rendered with the help of the Polish alphabet. Thus we obtain *Tanec pid werbamy* (instead of the expected *verbamy*). Inasmuch as Humeniuk's name has entered the historical record through Polish (German?) mediation, I would recommend following the procedure used in academic publications whenever established Latin-script document spelling differs from transliteration norms: - LC transliteration [document version]. - Then the name of the song in LC transliteration. Thus: Pavlo Humeniuk [Pawlo Humeniuk] Tanets' pid verbamy. Kind regards, Natalia Pylypiuk ||||||||||||||||| Dr. Natalia Pylypiuk, Associate Professor Modern Languages and Cultural Studies http://www.mlcs.ca 200 Arts, University of Alberta, Edmonton, Canada T6G 2E6 voice mail: (780) 492-3498 Canadian Association of Slavists http://www.ualberta.ca/~csp/cas On Apr 14, 2006, at 1:42 AM, Prof Steven P Hill wrote: > Dear colleagues: > > [...] Can any of you historians, either of Ukrainian culture or of > folk music, > perhaps establish the CORRECT orthography for his surname? I'll be > glad to forward the correct spelling to the LC's press representative, > in case they need to make some correction in their official honors > list. -- Steven P Hill, University of Illinois. > __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _ > > Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 02:10:26 -0400 > From: > Subject: Re: GETPOST AMIA-L > To: Steven P Hill > From: Association of Moving Image Archivists > Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 1:58 PM > To: AMIA-L at LSV.UKY.EDU > Subject: New National Recording Registry announced > > LIBRARY OF CONGRESS 101 Independence Av SE Washington DC 20540 > Phone: (202) 707-2905 Fax: (202) 707-9199 Email: pao at loc.gov > April 11, 2006 > Press contact: Sheryl Cannady (202) 707-6456 > > Librarian of Congress Names 50 Recordings to the 2005 National > Recording Registry > > Librarian of Congress James H. Billington has made his annual > selection > of 50 sound recordings [...] > 8. .Tanec pid werbamy/Dance Under the Willows,. Pawlo Huemiuk (1926) > [...] 8. .Tanec pid werbamy/Dance Under the Willows,. a > Ukrainian violin > solo with cymbaly, bass and sleigh bells, Pawlo Huemiuk (1926) > Pawlo Humeniuk was a renowned violin player in Ukranian communities > before beginning his recording career with Columbia, for which he made > this dance number. He learned violin in western Ukraine at the age > of 6 > and enjoyed a busy career playing concerts, dances and vaudeville > theaters. The song is an excellent example of the ethnic releases that > record labels began to produce in the 1920's for sale to immigrant > communities in the United States. > [ .... ] > __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ ___ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ ___ > __ __ __ __ __ ___ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU Fri Apr 14 21:06:04 2006 From: s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU (Prof Steven P Hill) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:06:04 -0500 Subject: Ukrainian names (cont.) Message-ID: Dear colleagues, Ukrainians and others: Thanks for your most helpful input about the correct orthography of the old Ukrainian folk musician, Pawlo (Pavlo) Humeniuk. I'll try to straighten out the Library of Congress, so they will spell the poor chap's name properly, 60 years after the classic recording he made. I am reminded of a similar surname, perhaps Ukrainian, perhaps from some nearby Slavic territory, that I'd forgotten over half a century. Around 1950, in my native state of Oregon, there was a professional (minor-league) ice hockey team called the Portland Penguins. And on the Penguins' front line one of the wings was named GEORGE HOMENUK (spelling approximate; being a monolingual youngster, I pronounced it "HOME-uh-nuck"). If memory serves, in Mr Homenuk's front line the center was an Italian named Larry Silvestri; both scored plenty of goals and assists for the old Penguins. HERE IS MY LINGUISTIC QUESTION, for you Ukrainians and others. Was Pawlo's surname (HUMENIUK) derived from the same ROOT, or from a different root, than George's was derived (HOMENUK)? Gratefully, Steven P Hill, University of Illinois. __ __ __ _ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _ __ __ __ _ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Fri Apr 14 21:39:55 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 14:39:55 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: Neuro-Psychoanalysis Lecture May 6] Message-ID: 14 April 2006 Dear Colleagues, Having been away to Mexico City for a week, and having returned to a plethora of messages on that persistent Onegin thing (which I will soon take some time to answer) - I meanwhile take the liberty of forwarding this item from the PsyArt list to indicate that Freud the neurologist is still taken seriously in the neurological field. Regards, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 2434 bytes Desc: not available URL: From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Fri Apr 14 22:08:38 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 15:08:38 -0700 Subject: Freud the neurologist Message-ID: Colleagues, In case the Psyart message didn't come out in my previous posting, perhaps this copy will: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: *NPSA* > > Date: Apr 12, 2006 6:15 AM > Subject: Neuro-Psychoanalysis Lecture May 6 > To: Admin at neuro-psa.org > > > > *Arnold** **Pfeffer** ** Center** for Neuro-Psychoanalysis * > > at the New York Psychoanalytic Institute > > * * > > *Neuro-Psychoanalysis Lecture Series * > > * * > > *On Saturday, **May 6^th 2006** at 10 am* > > *MARK SOLMS * > > *CHAIR OF NEUROPSYCHOLOGY* > > *UNIVERSITY OF CAPE TOWN* *, ** SOUTH AFRICA* > > *Director, **Arnold** ** Pfeffer** **Center* > > Will present a paper entitled: > > Sigmund Freud Today > > What is the scientific status today of Sigmund Freud's conception of > the mind? In this > > presentation in honour of the 150^th Anniversary of Freud's birth, > Mark Solms will review the status of > > Freud's theories in the light of contemporary neuroscientific > thinking. Most fundamental concepts will be > > discussed, including the unconscious, repression, drive, sexuality, > dreams, and the aetiology of neurosis. > > The aim of the presentation will be neither to praise Freud nor to > bury him, but rather to take stock of > > where psychoanalysis stands today, in order to set an appropriate > course for the future. > > > > The meeting will be chaired by *David Milrod,* Chairman, Arnold > Pfeffer Center. > > Prof. Solms will be introduced by *Jon Meyer,* President, American > Psychoanalytic Association > > > > *Auditorium, **New York** Psychoanalytic Institute,* > > *247 East 82nd Street **, ** New York* > > ***** > > This talk will be followed by a 3:00 pm reception for the opening of > the exhibition, > > "*Sigmund Freud's Neurological Drawings and Diagrams of the Mind:* > > *From Neurology to Psychoanalysis",* > > sponsored by the* American Psychoanalytic Association*. > > the * Arnold** Pfeffer Centre, *and* ** Binghamton** **University ** > **Art Museum** ,* > > at the Library of the New York Academy of Medicine > > (1216 Fifth Avenue New York, NY 10029 ). > > Prof. Solms will comment on these historic drawings. > > *ALL WELCOME TO BOTH EVENTS! * > > * www.neuro-psa.org * > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jlabov at STANFORD.EDU Fri Apr 14 23:06:25 2006 From: jlabov at STANFORD.EDU (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?J._Labov?=) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:06:25 -0400 Subject: CFP for conference "From Samizdat to Tamizdat" (Vienna, September 2006) Message-ID: CALL FOR PAPERS FOR THE CONFERENCE "From Samizdat to Tamizdat: Dissident Media out of Central Eastern Europe after 1945" Organiser: Zentrum für Zeithistorische Forschung (Potsdam), Stanford University (Stanford), Central European University (Budapest), Institut für die Wissenschaften vom Menschen (Vienna) Date/Place: September 12-15, 2006 Institut für die Wissenschaften vom Menschen (www.iwm.at) Deadline for Abstracts: May 15, 2006 Drawing from the disciplines of history, literature, political science, anthropology, sociology, and media studies, this conference takes as a starting point the movement of printed material between Eastern and Western Europe (as well as across the Atlantic) during the Cold War. One of the underlying arguments of this project is that cross-border communication in the late Cold War in its various forms made a major contribution to the rapprochement between Eastern and Western societies through the iron curtain by re-creating “a common market of the mind” in Europe. Cultural initiatives crossing ideologically divided societies and aiming at the promotion of non-official culture/literature in communist countries helped to counteract the ever increasing division between the intellectual communities in East and West. An analysis of the unofficial literary exchanges between East and West will initiate a discussion of transnational communication after 1945 that has not yet been fully explored. Beyond taking a closer look at the cultural transfer between East and West, we are seeking primarily contributions that focus on the impact of censorship on media and the ensuing emergence of dissident/underground media. The project will deliberately expand the definition of samizdat and tamizdat and use it as a marker of cultural transfer for the analysis of a broad variety of cultural projects that cross ideological, political or cultural borders. In order to establish a link to today’s media, we propose to compare underground circulation of uncensored texts during the Cold War with evolving forms of journalism after 1989, looking at new media and new forms of underground or unofficial communication today. Questions to address: • What forces texts/media or culture into the unofficial sphere or across national borders? • How do censorship, political or economic hardship cause media to operate underground or across borders? • How do we perceive media differently when they are produced under these conditions? • What mediating agents (individuals, informal networks and/or institutions) made the transmission of texts and media across borders possible? • What is the legacy of this form of transnational communication? • Could strategies adopted by mediators of samizdat/tamizdat be useful today? • Are samizdat and tamizdat produced in any form today (print, broadcast, or new media)? The organizers invite especially doctoral candidates and post-doctoral scholars to submit original research papers that discuss any aspect of underground and cross-border initiatives, including but not limited to the following themes: o Samizdat/Tamizdat: new Theoretical Approaches o Underground and exilic media throughout time: comparative views o Samizdat/Tamizdat and Censorship o Samizdat/Tamizdat as (cultural/political/literary) Dissidence o Samizdat/Tamizdat as Political and Societal Protest o Samizdat/Tamizdat through the Eyes of the Officials o Samizdat/Tamizdat in its Material Existence: an aesthetic approach o Samizdat/Tamizdat: a Gender Perspective o Samizdat/Tamizdat as Alternative Culture o Samizdat/Tamizdat as Belles-lettres o Samizdat/Tamizdat and other Dissident Media: Broadcast, Music, Arts o Samizdat/Tamizdat and Transnational Discourses o Samizdat/Tamizdat and Publishing during the Cultural Cold War o Samizdat/Tamizdat as a Cross-Border Social Network o Samizdat/Tamizdat and (Literary) Exile o Samizdat/Tamizdat as a Social Practice beyond borders o Samizdat/Tamizdat and its Public/Private Spheres o New forms of Samizdat/Tamizdat: underground and cross-border (new) media after 1989 Inspired by the concept of “Histoire croisée” we strongly encourage cross-cultural, cross-national and multi-disciplinary approaches. The conference will bring together junior scholars and senior commentators with keynote speakers from dissident publishing backgrounds to present a manifold perspective on the topic. Travel and accommodation costs will be covered through a grant by the German Volkswagen Foundation. Selected papers will be considered for a publication to appear in the following year. Please send 1-2 page abstracts and full contact details (email, Telephone, Postal Address) to ==> samizdat.tamizdat at gmail.com before May 15, 2006. Papers of 5000-7000 words must be submitted by August 15, as they will be pre-circulated among the participants. Presentations of these papers should not exceed 20 minutes in length, and must be in English. Please see www.samizdatportal.org , the online platform of the newly founded International Samizdat Research Association [ISRA] or contact one of the organizers below for more information. Dr. Jessie Labov Dept. of Comparative Literature Stanford University Pigott Hall, Building 260 Tel.: 001-650 723 0605 jlabov at stanford.edu Friederike Kind Zentrum für Zeithistorische Forschung Am Neuen Markt 1 14467 Potsdam Tel.: 0049-331-2899129 kind at zzf-pdm.de Camelia Craciun Department of History, Central European University Nador Utca 11 1051 Budapest camicr at yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lesya.mcminn at GMAIL.COM Fri Apr 14 23:50:39 2006 From: lesya.mcminn at GMAIL.COM (Lesya McMinn) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:50:39 -0700 Subject: Ukrainian Translation for "Click" In-Reply-To: <20060410125644.55494.qmail@web30808.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you so so much everyone! All your incredibly detailed and interesting responses to my little question, I'm a little embarrassed. But your responses were very helpful. Thank you again, and have a wonderful Easter either this weekend or next, Lesya ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tdolack at UOREGON.EDU Fri Apr 14 23:56:28 2006 From: tdolack at UOREGON.EDU (Tom Dolack) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 16:56:28 -0700 Subject: Freud the neurologist In-Reply-To: <44401D66.7040407@comcast.net> Message-ID: Not to take a stand on the issue, at least not yet, but the issue of Freud and his legacy came up on another list I'm on populated mostly, as far as I can tell, by people in psychology and biology. The *non* extreme consensus was that all of Freud's original contributions to psychology were wrong and at times even harmful. The things that he did get right were actually discovered by people before him. The word "charlatan" came up fairly frequently. Again, I'm just reporting the consensus from another list. One of the respondents was good enough to supply an extensive, though still partial, bibliography which I can share with any interested parties. Tom Dolack University of Oregon tdolack at uoregon.edu -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Daniel Rancour-Laferriere Sent: Friday, April 14, 2006 3:09 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Freud the neurologist Colleagues, In case the Psyart message didn't come out in my previous posting, perhaps this copy will: > > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: *NPSA* > > Date: Apr 12, 2006 6:15 AM > Subject: Neuro-Psychoanalysis Lecture May 6 > To: Admin at neuro-psa.org > > > > *Arnold** **Pfeffer** ** Center** for Neuro-Psychoanalysis * > > at the New York Psychoanalytic Institute > > * * > > *Neuro-Psychoanalysis Lecture Series * > > * * > > *On Saturday, **May 6^th 2006** at 10 am* > > *MARK SOLMS * > > *CHAIR OF NEUROPSYCHOLOGY* > > *UNIVERSITY OF CAPE TOWN* *, ** SOUTH AFRICA* > > *Director, **Arnold** ** Pfeffer** **Center* > > Will present a paper entitled: > > Sigmund Freud Today > > What is the scientific status today of Sigmund Freud's conception of > the mind? In this > > presentation in honour of the 150^th Anniversary of Freud's birth, > Mark Solms will review the status of > > Freud's theories in the light of contemporary neuroscientific > thinking. Most fundamental concepts will be > > discussed, including the unconscious, repression, drive, sexuality, > dreams, and the aetiology of neurosis. > > The aim of the presentation will be neither to praise Freud nor to > bury him, but rather to take stock of > > where psychoanalysis stands today, in order to set an appropriate > course for the future. > > > > The meeting will be chaired by *David Milrod,* Chairman, Arnold > Pfeffer Center. > > Prof. Solms will be introduced by *Jon Meyer,* President, American > Psychoanalytic Association > > > > *Auditorium, **New York** Psychoanalytic Institute,* > > *247 East 82nd Street **, ** New York* > > ***** > > This talk will be followed by a 3:00 pm reception for the opening of > the exhibition, > > "*Sigmund Freud's Neurological Drawings and Diagrams of the Mind:* > > *From Neurology to Psychoanalysis",* > > sponsored by the* American Psychoanalytic Association*. > > the * Arnold** Pfeffer Centre, *and* ** Binghamton** **University ** > **Art Museum** ,* > > at the Library of the New York Academy of Medicine > > (1216 Fifth Avenue New York, NY 10029 ). > > Prof. Solms will comment on these historic drawings. > > *ALL WELCOME TO BOTH EVENTS! * > > * www.neuro-psa.org * > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From actrmbrs at SBCGLOBAL.NET Sat Apr 15 01:15:28 2006 From: actrmbrs at SBCGLOBAL.NET (George W. Morris) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 20:15:28 -0500 Subject: ACTR Russian Scholar Laureate Award Message-ID: Colleagues; A reminder to high school Russian teachers that the deadline for nominations for the ACTR Russian Scholar Laureate award is May 1. This award is for one high school sophomore or junior Russian student in each school where Russian is taught. The student must be nominated by the school principal or head on school letterhead and must be accompanied by a) a color photo suitable for publication, b) the student¹s graduation year and GPA, c) the student¹s home address for correspondence, d) the name of the student¹s current Russian teacher. Send all materials in a single envelope by May 1 to: George W. Morris, Chair ACTR Russian Scholar Laureate Award 3109 Yale Blvd. St. Charles, MO 63301-0462 Additional information: or call 636-946-8780. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Sat Apr 15 05:26:05 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:26:05 -0700 Subject: Onegin Message-ID: 14 April 2006 Dear Colleagues, There has been a lot more discussion about Eugene Onegin. Some of it is quite crude, some very nuanced and interesting. The approach of Maryna Vinarska is paranoid, and does not have much to do with Onegin: >All those efforts to implant "Golubaia kul'tura" into our lives after the beginning of perestroika were so rude, aggressive and overwhelming that they were doomed to failure. With our people it is always like this: the harder you try to impose smth against our wish, the less result you'll get. Or you'll get directly the opposite result. It is still considered to be a medical condition like any other you may be born with, diabitis or heart failure, or whatever. > Vera Beljakova writes: >Please don't start telling >me that ALL our male literary heroes are 'gay'.... >They are not here to defend their 'honour' or >challenge you to a duel. > Has anyone said "ALL" of "our" literary heoees are gay? Not that I am aware of. And so what if they were? What is wrong with being gay? You heard me right. Matthew Herrington is absolutely right. What IS wrong with being gay? It is NOT a "medical condition," contrary to what Vinarska says. Freud himself thought homosexual orientation was perverse or neurotic, but psychoanalysis has come a long way since Freud (and that is one piece of evidence in favor of what Tom Dolack offered in his admittedly "partial" bibliography). You will not find homosexual or bisexual orientation termed a "disorder" in DSM IV or among most practicing analysts today. The homophobia is especially evident in the peculiar use of the word "'honour'" by Beljakova. What would be "dishonourable" about someone (real of literary) being gay? True, an educated nineteenth-century Russian more likely than not would view the phenomenon with suspicion or hostility, and therefore consider it "dishonourable." But that would not make such an attitude any less homophobic. Note also the xenophobia in this formulation: "our" heroes are not here to defend themselves. From whom? From some non-Russian "other" who has no business looking into the sexual proclivities of certain Russians? Or, more broadly speaking, can only the Russians understand "Russian soul?" Recently a Russian psychoanalyst friend of mine wrote to me to say: >А что касается российского сопротивления прикладному психоанализу, то да, я >думаю, это оно и есть. Относительно Вас это может быть "сопротивление >идентичности", аналогичное описанному Э.Эриксоном - опасение, что Ваш >авторитет, Ваша мощная, связанная идентичность поглотит, разрушит нашу пока >незрелую, спутанную, несформировавшуюся идентичность российского >психоаналитика. А в наших национальных проблемах, в "загадочной русской >душе" мы с удовольствием копаемся сами, но никому не позволим туда лезть, >тем более какому-то иностранцу! Конечно это сопротивление. > Maryna Vinarska's xenophobic soprotivlenie is narrow and focused, but it is clearly there nevertheless: > Psychoanalyse whatever you want, starting from our president to > Petrushevskaia. Who cares? But leave our classics alone or keep at > least the results of your discoveries by yourself. > Don't you realize that Onegin, Pechorin and the rest of the company > are exactly among those who are not supposed to be presented naked in > any way. > Leave our classics alone, please. No, thank you. Your classics are wonderful (including the components of "golubaia kul'tura" within them). Your classics brought me to Russian literature in the first place. You can't chase me away that easily. I've been in this business for over thirty years, and even if I drop dead tomorrow, what's done is done. I don't believe Bulgakov's idea that "Rukopisi ne goriat," but I do know that you cannot unpublish books. I see some progress toward the "reader response theory" (Holland, Bleich, Iser, etc.) of some decades ago in the comments of Edward Dumanis: > Let's call the version of >Onegin that Pushkin had correct by the definition. It does not mean that >we ever know what that version was but we can utilize some methods of >reconstruction which, we believe, will lead us closer to that correct >version. Please keep in mind that it would not necessarily be an >interesting version. On the other hand, there are might be some >interesting versions but not necessarily correct ones. This is what I >meant talking about the two different systems of literary reconstruction, >and my plea was not to confuse them. > But the right hand seems to be taking what the left gives away. "That correct version" is lurking there, always allegedly available for us to fall back on to - despite the multiple "interesting" readings now on record of Onegin being gay/bisexual/homosexual. I confess I have not read all of Richardson's huge novel _Clarissa_ , but Tatyana Buzina seems correct in saying about it that Lovelace's narcissistic problem is the primary issue, not indirect homosexuality. Then of course there is the straightforward misogyny ("ruining" women and raping Clarissa). I wonder if the mind of Lovelace has ever been psychoanalyzed, by the way? I understand that a wave of new "blue culture" items has arrived at the New York Public Library. One of them deals with Onegin, although I have not yet had the opportunity to read it myself: >POEZIIA PUSHKINA, ILI PODVIZHNYI PALIMPSEST, M: Novoe lit. obozrenie, >1999. > The author is Oleg Proskurin. Well, good night, and good luck. Daniel Rancour-Laferriere ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Sat Apr 15 09:08:26 2006 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 05:08:26 -0400 Subject: Onegin et al. (correction & reply) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: First of all, I would like to apologize for an unforgivable error crediting Veronika Dolina as the author of the song about female Sancho Panza. This song was written and performed by another contemporary songwriter Natella Boltyanskaya, and it is called "Serenada. Zhenskaya." Regarding Dr. Rancour-Laferriere's comment that in my message I somehow give something with one hand while taking it away by the other, I must reply that (from my point of view) this type of characterization would be more appropriate in politics rather than in academic discussions. Addressing directly Dr. Rancour-Laferriere, I want to say the following: Please consider at least a possibility that some of your colleagues do not have a political agenda but rather attempt to honestly discuss the text-based approach with their own understanding of the surrounding historical reality the way they understand it. You might disagree with them, and, as I understand, your own painful experience shows how difficult it is to insist on a point of view which stands against the "established" one. It does not make them correct if your opponents defend the "established" opinion but it does not make them wrong either. It is easy to dismiss with what they say making rather political than literary based statements. However, your position is challenged on a literary ground, and not on a political one. I sincerely believe that if we use our political opinions in scholarly disputes, we will stifle the very spirit of academia. I have never tried to take anything away from what you were proclaiming as your interpretation of XIX century relationship as it is described by Pushkin because my statement was not and is not meant to be political. It might affect your political views or the strong feelings that you have but it is unavoidable in discussing anything that many people find controversial. It is quite common to see in such discussions a mixture of academic and political positions if the latter ones are held quite strongly, or at least one might be able to deduce what those political positions are. Nevertheless, the only way of avoiding the unpleasantness of the corresponding expressions is to avoid any discussions of such topics. I do not believe that we should be placed in a position of defending ourselves from accusations in bigotry; and I do not want to discuss what happened in our history when people were forced to give an oath of loyalty because I would be using then a political argument myself. So, going back to literary criticism, I have not seen so far anything in your position that would indicate that this position of your is not affected by XXI century. I believe that this is the key which would provide your position with credibility going beyond the expression of your opinion. Again, this is not related to somebody's view on homosexuality or bisexuality either at present or in historical context. This challenge is dictated purely by the logic of your arguments, and by nothing else. However, please take into account that the credibility of the result of your analysis if you present one is not greater than the credibility of the methods utilized there. If you make your demonstration rooted in psychoanalysis, it is COMPLETELY fine with me with just one caveat: the credibility of the result will be in direct proportion to the credibility of the psychoanalytical methods you would use. Of course, this credibility will be different for each of us. Nevertheless, this would be the way to avoid the confusion of the two questons I was discussing, and it will show the actual logical step from one of them to the other one. Sicerely, Edward Dumanis On Fri, 7 Apr 2006, Edward M Dumanis wrote: > > > On Thu, 6 Apr 2006, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: > > ......../snip/......... > > Agreed. But there is no "real" Onegin. We have all been constructing > > him for ourselves ever since Pushkin did. But some constructs are more > > interesting than others, and some constructs explain certain things > > better than others. > > The most interesting versions of the murder are not necessarily correct. > However, it does not make them less interesting. Let's call the version of > Onegin that Pushkin had correct by the definition. It does not mean that > we ever know what that version was but we can utilize some methods of > reconstruction which, we believe, will lead us closer to that correct > version. Please keep in mind that it would not necessarily be an > interesting version. On the other hand, there are might be some > interesting versions but not necessarily correct ones. This is what I > meant talking about the two different systems of literary reconstruction, > and my plea was not to confuse them. > > > > ................/snip/................ > > > > Edward Dumanis writes: > > > > >A famous contemporary Russian songwriter, Veronika Dolina, has a poem > > >where she portraits Sancho Panza as a woman who is in love with her > > >master. It's a wonderful song, however, I have not heard about anybody > > >thinking that this might be what was in Cervantes' subconsciousness. Or > > >was it? > > > > > First, the correct psychoanalytic term is "unconscious" ("subconscious" > > if you are a Jungian). Second, I say: if Veronika Dolina can imagine > > Sancho in love with Quixote, Tat'iana can imagine Onegin in love with > > Lenskii. > > > Thank you for correcting me. I have no clue how this "-ness" went into my > writing. However, I need to clarify my example with Dolina. She explicitly > interpret Sancho as a woman in love with Quixote, not a man. It is an > interesting interpretation of Tat'iana imagining Onegin in love with > Lenskii. However, it does contradict to the duller reality of her > upbringing. Nevertheless it it still interesting. We can certainly imagine > such things happening. It would not be Pushkin's realism in that case but > so what? It will be your or my Onegin but not Pushkin's. Does it matter or > not? - it is a completely different story. > > Sincerely, > > Edward Dumanis > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nevmenandr at GMAIL.COM Sat Apr 15 12:52:46 2006 From: nevmenandr at GMAIL.COM (=?KOI8-R?B?4s/SydMg79LFyM/X?=) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 18:52:46 +0600 Subject: Translation in Wikipedia Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers! Our workgroup (information is here: http://ruthenia.ru/tiutcheviana/publications/public.html) started a movement for translating an article about a great Russian poet F. Tyutchev into as many languages in Wikipedia (a free encyclopedia http://wikipedia.org/) as possible. Names of the translators are in our honourable list now: http://ruthenia.ru/tiutcheviana/workgroup/translators.html Maybe someone of SEELANGers is able to translate an article into some slavic language? Maybe Finnish? Or some else? There is a list of languages, in which article about Tyutchev is already exist: Arabic: http://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/فيودور_إيفانوفيتش_تيوتشيف Bashkir: http://ba.wikipedia.org/wiki/Тютчев%2C_Федор_Иванович Bulgarian: http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/Фьодор_Тютчев Czech: http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjodor_Ivanovič_Ťutčev English: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Tyutchev Esperanto: http://eo.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjodor_Tjutĉev Estonian: http://et.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjodor_Tjuttšev French: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiodor_Tiouttchev German: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjodor_Iwanowitsch_Tjutschew Hebrew: http://he.wikipedia.org/wiki/פיודור_טיוטצ'ב Italian: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fëdor_Tjutčev Lithuanian: http://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiodoras_Tiutčevas Norwegian (bukmal only): http://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjodor_Tjutsjev Polish: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiodor_Tiutczew Russian: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Тютчев%2C_Фёдор_Иванович Simple English: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Tyutchev Spanish: http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiodor_Tiutchev Swedish: http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjodor_Tiutjev Turkish: http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Tyutçev Ukrainian: http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Тютчев_Федір_Іванович Welsh: http://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ffedor_Tiwtsief For your translation you may use an article in Simple-English-Wikipedia: http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fyodor_Tyutchev the most simple and short but informative text. There is the one: Fyodor Ivanovich Tyutchev (rus: Фёдор Иванович Тютчев; December 5, 1803 – July 27, 1873) was one of the most significant Russian poet and diplomat. He lived in Munich, Turin. Tyutchev was a good friend of Heinrich Heine, knew Schelling as well. Tyutchev didn't want people know him as a poet. He didn't take any part in a literature life. We know about 400 his poems. Russian people quote them very often. His early poems are made in Russian poetic tradition of XVIII century. In 1830s we can find an influence of European (especially German) romantism at Tyutchev's lyrics. He writes philosophic poems about the universe, a nature and a human being. In 1840s Tyutchev writes several articles about relations between Russia and Occidental civilization. In 1850s Tyutchev creates several heartfelt poems, in which we see love as a tragedy. These poems are combined into one cycle, named "Denisievski". "Denisievski" means dedicated to a mistress of Tyutchev – Elena Alexandrovna Denisieva. In 1860s–1870s Tyutchev writes mainly political poems. The most famous poem of Tyutchev is "Silentium!". This is a hard appeal to be silent. Because a man never can understand another person. A line "A word once uttered is untrue" is one of the most popular aphorism of Tyutchev. As well as "We can't understand Russia by the reason" and "We are not know, what will be the respond for our word". -- Всего доброго, Борис Орехов From atacama at global.co.za Sat Apr 15 10:35:17 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 06:35:17 -0400 Subject: Onegin Message-ID: Daniel answers me: > ...snip.. The homophobia is especially evident in the peculiar use of the word "'honour'" by Beljakova. What would be "dishonourable" about someone (real of literary) being gay? > True, an educated nineteenth-century Russian more likely than not would view the phenomenon with suspicion or hostility, and therefore consider it "dishonourable." Daniel. I'm glad that you fully understood the point I made. We are indeed dealing with 19th-century characters, heroes and authors, to whom being described as gay or partially so, would be offending and a cause for challenging to a duel to defend their 'honour'. People died for lesser causes in literature and reality. Now, we have 21st century 'Western' academics imposing their fashionably contemporary morality across a huge psychological and cultural and geographic gap on hapless characters/authors to whom the 21st century moral outlook would have been totally alien, if not repulsive. I am equally against Christ being portrayed as gay. I am just against cross-century and cross-cultural character assassination. By all means explore new outlandish angles, as a form of intellectual exercise, but just keep it tongue-in-cheek. It could be an intellectual game, but should be taken too seriously. BTW, in Zimbabwe homosexuality is still punishable by imprisonment (in theory), and there was a huge scandal a few years ago when a minister, terrorist+freedom fighter war-hero ended up in court (for various reasons) being exposed as imposing himself on his soldier/guards and for taking on a soldier as a 'wife' (who apparently ended up in tears and ostracized/terrorised by other soldiers) - besides all the other 'wives'. So .... we might be in the 21st century in the USA, but to impose USA morality on other/alien cultures is considered to be a form of cultural 'colonialism', and here one needs to tread carefully. Russians, of course, are convinced that Westerns will never be able to understand the Russian soul, and Russians have problem understanding the "American/Anglo-Saxon", which is terribly low-profile in literature. This might give rise to another debate: Russian versus American Soul (across the centuries). > Note also the xenophobia in this formulation: "our" heroes are not here to defend themselves. From whom? >From 21st century alien analysts (see above for details) who are tinkering around the characters/authors/sacred symbols/ > From some non-Russian "other" who has no business looking into the sexual proclivities of certain Russians? Or, more broadly speaking, can only the Russians understand "Russian soul?" Well, I certainly look forward to this debate. Personally, I am bi-tri-lingual;, and bi-tri cultural from birth, so I do understand Daniel's point of view, but can't second it. Vera Beljakova Johannesburg -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at COMCAST.NET Sat Apr 15 18:00:05 2006 From: ggerhart at COMCAST.NET (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 11:00:05 -0700 Subject: More? Message-ID: Mr. A. Onegin, through no fault of his own, has done wonders for the Rock Garden list I also attend. Genevra Gerhart ggerhart at comcast.net www.genevragerhart.com www.russiancommonknowledge.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Sat Apr 15 14:06:40 2006 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 10:06:40 -0400 Subject: Onegin In-Reply-To: <380-220064615103517526@M2W072.mail2web.com> Message-ID: I'd like to make a couple of points. Elena Ventsel' once said that it behooves to us, non-Jews, to rise to the defense of Jews. Similarly, it behooves to us, non-gay (or those who at least for now presume themselves to be non-gay) to see this statement for what it is, a statement of bigotry, and rise. If "Golubaja kul'tura" was forced underground for a very long time, it's hardly surprising that it emerged like a geyser (or gayser, to koin a word). >>All those efforts to implant "Golubaia kul'tura" into our lives after the >>beginning of perestroika were so rude, aggressive and overwhelming that >>they were doomed to failure. With our people it is always like this: the >>harder you try to impose smth against our wish, the less result you'll >>get. Or you'll get directly the opposite result. It is still considered >>to be a medical condition like any other you may be born with, diabitis >>or heart failure, or whatever. The following is much too black and white. One has to keep in mind that "muzhelozhestvo" was not outlawed in Russia until Peter the Great, who allegedly himself had (or may have had) sexual relationships with men. And even then it was outlawed only in the army, strangely enough since there are no women there anyway. Sexual relationships were much more fluid and we cannot project our dichotomy. It's still is in some cultures. >> True, an >educated nineteenth-century Russian more likely than not would view the >phenomenon with suspicion or hostility, and therefore consider it >"dishonourable." >Now, we have 21st century 'Western' academics imposing >their fashionably contemporary morality across a huge >psychological and cultural and geographic gap on >hapless characters/authors to whom the 21st century >moral outlook would have been totally alien, if not repulsive. > >I am equally against Christ being portrayed as gay. But that's precisely what you doing: sexuality was not always viewed as homosexual vs. heterosexual. Sex for men (women are not in focus, were they ever?) meant heirs and pleasure, heirs come only from women, as for pleasure, it depends. Just remember some famous emperors of pre-Christian world and some kings of the Christian world. >BTW, in Zimbabwe homosexuality is still punishable >by imprisonment (in theory), So it was in the Soviet Russia. Both are hardly models to emulate. BTW, the law in the Soviet Union was used rarely, for dissidents for the most part, and as blackmailing tool to recruit KGB reporters. __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Fri Apr 14 21:40:11 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2006 17:40:11 -0400 Subject: correct Ukrainian orthography? Pavlo Humeniuk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Natalia Pylypiuk wrote: > Dear Professor Hill, > > I have recordings by the famous fiddler HUMENIUK. > The form *Huemiuk* in note 8 (cited below in blue) is merely a > typographical error. No such name exists in Ukrainian. > > If we were to transliterate his name from Ukrainian, it would be > Pavlo Humeniuk, according to the Library of Congress system, and > Pavlo Humenjuk, according to the International Standard. > > His *Dance under the Willows* would be: > Tanets' pid verbamy, according to the Library of Congress system, and > Tanec' pid verbamy, according to the International Standard. > > The fiddler is known as Pawlo (instead of the expected Pavlo) > Humeniuk in the literature, because he came from Western Ukraine to > the USA in 1902, at a time when the Polish (and/or German) alphabet > would have been used to render his name in the passport and other > official documents. In the 1920s the names of his songs on the > various recording were also rendered with the help of the Polish > alphabet. Thus we obtain *Tanec pid werbamy* (instead of the expected > *verbamy*). > > Inasmuch as Humeniuk's name has entered the historical record through > Polish (German?) mediation, I would recommend following the procedure > used in academic publications whenever established Latin-script > document spelling differs from transliteration norms: > - LC transliteration [document version]. > - Then the name of the song in LC transliteration. Thus: > > Pavlo Humeniuk [Pawlo Humeniuk] > Tanets' pid verbamy. As I'm sure you know, there are several systems in various degrees of use or disuse, and this link outlines the principal ones: Your recommendations for this case are wise, and I would follow them if I were writing about Mr. Humeniuk. In the absence of any reasons such as those you outline, I would generally choose among the National, BGN, or Library of Congress systems according to my target readership. Here are the options according to the table (I recommend increasing the font size when viewing that page to be sure of seeing the diacritics): Scholarly Pavlo Humenjuk, Tanets' pid verbamy ALA-LC Pavlo Humeniu͡k, Tanets͡' pid verbamy BGN/PCGN Pavlo Humenyuk, Tanets' pid verbamy ISO 9 Pavlo Ǵumenûk, Tanec' pìd verbami National Pavlo Humeniuk, Tanets' pid verbamy French Pavlo Houmeniouk, Tanets pid verbamy German Pawlo Humenjuk, Tanez pid werbamy Since German uses "ju" for "ю," I conclude that the intermediary must have been Polish (not listed in the table), which routinely uses "iu" in its own native spelling for /u/ after a palatalized consonant. I've used "Ǵ" above in ISO 9 because I couldn't find a G-grave in Character Map. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jtonn at PRINCETON.EDU Sat Apr 15 22:22:52 2006 From: jtonn at PRINCETON.EDU (James M Tonn (jtonn@Princeton.EDU)) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 18:22:52 -0400 Subject: zgrabne nogi In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alina, For the record, my photocopy was also from Mówimy po polsku (although apparently a different edition), and not from Swan at all. Sorry for any confusion. Jim Tonn ----- Original Message ----- From: Alina Israeli Date: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:19 pm Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] zgrabne nogi To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > The dialogue of "bardzo zgrabne nogi" that I remember is exactly > like > Jim described, except in my case it came from this book, I believe: > > Mówimy po polsku. > > Bisko, Wacaw / Karolak, Stanisaw / Wasilewska, Danuta / Kryski, > Stanisaw: > > Mówimy po polsku. A Beginners' Course of Polish. > > Warszawa: PW "Wiedza Powszechna", 1966/79. > > I was studying it in Leningrad in those days. > > Alina > > > Alina, > I happen to have just read the Polish excerpt you mentioned. > It's from > Oscar Swan, Intermediate Polish (I think--I have only a photocopied > portion), pages 66-67. Marek is observing the ladies' umbrellas, > and his > friend Adam says, "Nie jestem pewien, czy obserwujesz parasolki, czy > kobiety." [I'm not sure, if you are watching the umbrellas or the > women.]Later Marek points out one particularly attractive > umbrella, and Adam > agrees, "No tak... Ta parasolka ma bardzo zgrabne nogi." [Well, > yes... That > umbrella has got a very fine pair of legs.] (Marek's wife, Agata, > appearslater.) > > Jim Tonn > Slavic Languages and Literature > Princeton University > -- > __________ > Alina Israeli > LFS, American University > 4400 Mass. Ave., NW > Washington, DC 20016 > > phone: (202) 885-2387 > fax: (202) 885-1076 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From e.gapova at WORLDNET.ATT.NET Sun Apr 16 04:05:20 2006 From: e.gapova at WORLDNET.ATT.NET (Elena Gapova) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 00:05:20 -0400 Subject: Polnyi preved In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Polnyi preved: Lenta.ru on Russian internet-slang: http://www.lenta.ru/articles/2006/02/28/preved/ e.g. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET Sun Apr 16 04:12:33 2006 From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 21:12:33 -0700 Subject: kaverznye voprosy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: How about simply "provocative questions"? SEELANGS automatic digest system wrote: Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2006 08:05:55 -0400 From: Lily Alexander Subject: Re: "kaverznye voprosy" Dear Colleagues, I am trying to find an equivalent to "kaverznye voprosy" - which are intentionally playful, provoking, teasing, and controversial kind of questions. These questions may be nasty, but usually are harmless and fun. I went though all the possibilities with a colleagues, a native speaker, and we could not find an adequate translation into English. Any suggestions? My 2nd question is how to find the best translation of "prokurennyi golos kak u zeka," - speaking of a Stalin camp survivor, a lady and a professor. LA Deborah Hoffman Finance Chair, Graduate Student Senate Modern and Classical Language Studies Kent State University http://users.ameritech.net/lino59/index.htm Stop the Genocide in Darfur: http://www.savedarfur.org/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Sun Apr 16 05:31:21 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 22:31:21 -0700 Subject: Piatka Message-ID: 15 April 2006 Yevgeny Slivkin writes: >I do not know about the other Slavic cultures, but in Russian culture which >is still based on literature the most attractive part of femail body is >"piatka". > > >Don Guan: (...)pod etim vdov'im chernym pokryvalom > Chut' uzen'kuiu piatku ia zametil. >Leporello: Dovol'no s vas. U vas voobrazhen'e > V minutu dorisuet ostal'noe > > (A.S. Pushkin) > This is a fetishistic conception of female beauty in the mind of "Don Guan," while "Leporello" disregards the fetishism, extending the image as if it were a normal metonymy in the direction of what is "ostal'noe," i.e., in the direction of what normally leads to male sexual arousal. Leporello does not seem to understand Don Juan's momentary foot fetishism, and follows through with a somewhat vague statement of what is more normally perceived as sexually attractive in a woman. I seriously doubt that, for Russian men, "the most attractive part of femail body is 'piatka'," although there are SOME men in various cultures who cannot achieve arousal and/or orgasm with a woman without fixating on her foot - a phallic icon (Peirce) or symbol (Freud). If you think about it, there is a resemblance here to the cross-dressing male who needs to wear his wife's dress in order to complete the sexual act. In both cases the castration anxiety provoked by the absence of a penis in a woman is overcome (or as sexologist John Money used to say, there has to be a "Venus with a penis"). If you wish to delve further into this (no doubt disturbing for some of you) phenomenon, see my _Signs of the Flesh_ (1985) and the literature cited therein, including the earlier paper on the semiotics of the human penis which appeared in _Versus_, and which is scheduled to appear in Russian translation. In any case I felt obliged to correct a misconception about what is normally sexually attractive to men, including Russian men. Regards to the list, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU Sun Apr 16 05:36:57 2006 From: s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU (Prof Steven P Hill) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 00:36:57 -0500 Subject: synonyms, Ukr. names, & hockey Message-ID: Dear helpful colleagues: On behalf of Prof John D Rimberg ("John Rim"), I thank all of you who suggested synonyms for feminine attractiveness. I forwarded your replies to Prof Rimberg, and he commented that the number of replies was far more than he'd expected! I myself raised a little Ukrainian onomastic question a day or two ago (connected with ice hockey). But my little query appeared on SEELANGS far down the batch of previous messages (including mine) about the folk musician Humeniuk, and apparently my "Ukrainian hockey query" was lost in the shuffle. So let me try it again, as follows -- [ .... ] I am reminded of a similar surname, perhaps Ukrainian, perhaps from some nearby Slavic territory, that I'd forgotten over half a century. Around 1950, in my native state of Oregon, there was a professional (minor-league) ice hockey team called the Portland Penguins. And on the Penguins' front line one of the wings was named GEORGE HOMENUK (spelling approximate; being a monolingual youngster, I pronounced it "HOME-uh-nuck"). If memory serves, in Mr Homenuk's front line the center was an Italian named Larry Silvestri; both scored plenty of goals and assists for the old Penguins. HERE IS MY LINGUISTIC QUESTION, for you Ukrainians and others. Was Pawlo's surname (HUMENIUK) derived from the same ROOT, or from a different root, than George's was derived (HOMENUK)? Gratefully, Steven P Hill, University of Illinois. __ __ __ _ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ _ __ __ _ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Sun Apr 16 06:06:27 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2006 23:06:27 -0700 Subject: Onegin et al. (correction & reply) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Edward Dumanis, I have read your message several times, and I cannot understand it, especially your usage of the word "political." Please try to distill your message into a single straightforward paragraph so that I can give a simple and direct response. Thank you, Sincerely, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere Edward M Dumanis wrote: >First of all, I would like to apologize for an unforgivable error >crediting Veronika Dolina as the author of the song about female Sancho >Panza. This song was written and performed by another contemporary >songwriter Natella Boltyanskaya, and it is called "Serenada. Zhenskaya." > >Regarding Dr. Rancour-Laferriere's comment that in my message I somehow >give something with one hand while taking it away by the other, I must >reply that (from my point of view) this type of characterization would be >more appropriate in politics rather than in academic discussions. >Addressing directly Dr. Rancour-Laferriere, I want to say the following: > >Please consider at least a possibility that some of your colleagues do not >have a political agenda but rather attempt to honestly discuss the >text-based approach with their own understanding of the surrounding >historical reality the way they understand it. You might disagree with >them, and, as I understand, your own painful experience shows how >difficult it is to insist on a point of view which stands against the >"established" one. It does not make them correct if your opponents defend >the "established" opinion but it does not make them wrong either. It is >easy to dismiss with what they say making rather political than literary >based statements. >However, your position is challenged on a literary ground, and not on a >political one. I sincerely believe that if we use our political opinions >in scholarly disputes, we will stifle the very spirit of academia. >I have never tried to take anything away from what you were proclaiming as >your interpretation of XIX century relationship as it is described by >Pushkin because my statement was not and is not meant to be political. It >might affect your political views or the strong feelings that you have but >it is unavoidable in discussing anything that many people find >controversial. It is quite common to see in such discussions a mixture of >academic and political positions if the latter ones are held quite >strongly, or at least one might be able to deduce what those political >positions are. Nevertheless, the only way of avoiding the unpleasantness >of the corresponding expressions is to avoid any discussions of such >topics. I do not believe that we should be placed in a position of >defending ourselves from accusations in bigotry; and I do not want to >discuss what happened in our history when people were forced to give an >oath of loyalty because I would be using then a political argument myself. >So, going back to literary criticism, I have not seen so far anything in >your position that would indicate that this position of your is not >affected by XXI century. I believe that this is the key which would >provide your position with credibility going beyond the expression of >your opinion. Again, this is not related to somebody's view on >homosexuality or bisexuality either at present or in historical context. >This challenge is dictated purely by the logic of your arguments, and by >nothing else. >However, please take into account that the credibility of the result of >your analysis if you present one is not greater than the credibility of >the methods utilized there. If you make your demonstration rooted in >psychoanalysis, it is COMPLETELY fine with me with just one caveat: the >credibility of the result will be in direct proportion to the credibility >of the psychoanalytical methods you would use. Of course, this credibility >will be different for each of us. Nevertheless, this would be the way to >avoid the confusion of the two questons I was discussing, and it will show >the actual logical step from one of them to the other one. > >Sicerely, > >Edward Dumanis > > >On Fri, 7 Apr 2006, Edward M Dumanis wrote: > > > >>On Thu, 6 Apr 2006, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: >> >>......../snip/......... >> >> >>>Agreed. But there is no "real" Onegin. We have all been constructing >>>him for ourselves ever since Pushkin did. But some constructs are more >>>interesting than others, and some constructs explain certain things >>>better than others. >>> >>> >>The most interesting versions of the murder are not necessarily correct. >>However, it does not make them less interesting. Let's call the version of >>Onegin that Pushkin had correct by the definition. It does not mean that >>we ever know what that version was but we can utilize some methods of >>reconstruction which, we believe, will lead us closer to that correct >>version. Please keep in mind that it would not necessarily be an >>interesting version. On the other hand, there are might be some >>interesting versions but not necessarily correct ones. This is what I >>meant talking about the two different systems of literary reconstruction, >>and my plea was not to confuse them. >> >> >> >> >>>................/snip/................ >>> >>>Edward Dumanis writes: >>> >>> >>> >>>>A famous contemporary Russian songwriter, Veronika Dolina, has a poem >>>>where she portraits Sancho Panza as a woman who is in love with her >>>>master. It's a wonderful song, however, I have not heard about anybody >>>>thinking that this might be what was in Cervantes' subconsciousness. Or >>>>was it? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>First, the correct psychoanalytic term is "unconscious" ("subconscious" >>>if you are a Jungian). Second, I say: if Veronika Dolina can imagine >>>Sancho in love with Quixote, Tat'iana can imagine Onegin in love with >>>Lenskii. >>> >>> >>> >>Thank you for correcting me. I have no clue how this "-ness" went into my >>writing. However, I need to clarify my example with Dolina. She explicitly >>interpret Sancho as a woman in love with Quixote, not a man. It is an >>interesting interpretation of Tat'iana imagining Onegin in love with >>Lenskii. However, it does contradict to the duller reality of her >>upbringing. Nevertheless it it still interesting. We can certainly imagine >>such things happening. It would not be Pushkin's realism in that case but >>so what? It will be your or my Onegin but not Pushkin's. Does it matter or >>not? - it is a completely different story. >> >>Sincerely, >> >>Edward Dumanis >> >> >> >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Sun Apr 16 09:53:35 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 05:53:35 -0400 Subject: Onegin et al. (correction & reply) Message-ID: Dear Dr. Daniel Rancour-Laferriere, I understand Edward Dumanis to you very well. You are giving the image of promoting the Gay-Culture, which has taken on quasi-political status in the Western World, and is a 21st c. (late 20th c.) phenomenon, trying to use poor Onegin as a vehicle, but this has very little to do with 19th century reality of Tatyana's provincial Russia or the elite salons of St. Petersburg. Toying with such notions is one thing, and can be quite amusing for this Listserv, but I am alarmed when such notions are taken seriously or overworked. Therein lies the crux of the matter. With respects, Vera Beljakova Johannesburg , I have read your message several times, and I cannot understand it, especially your usage of the word "political." Please try to distill your message into a single straightforward paragraph so that I can give a simple and direct response. Thank you, Sincerely, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere Edward M Dumanis wrote: >First of all, I would like to apologize for an unforgivable error >crediting Veronika Dolina as the author of the song about female Sancho >Panza. This song was written and performed by another contemporary >songwriter Natella Boltyanskaya, and it is called "Serenada. Zhenskaya." > >Regarding Dr. Rancour-Laferriere's comment that in my message I somehow >give something with one hand while taking it away by the other, I must >reply that (from my point of view) this type of characterization would be >more appropriate in politics rather than in academic discussions. >Addressing directly Dr. Rancour-Laferriere, I want to say the following: > >Please consider at least a possibility that some of your colleagues do not >have a political agenda but rather attempt to honestly discuss the >text-based approach with their own understanding of the surrounding >historical reality the way they understand it. You might disagree with >them, and, as I understand, your own painful experience shows how >difficult it is to insist on a point of view which stands against the >"established" one. It does not make them correct if your opponents defend >the "established" opinion but it does not make them wrong either. It is >easy to dismiss with what they say making rather political than literary >based statements. >However, your position is challenged on a literary ground, and not on a >political one. I sincerely believe that if we use our political opinions >in scholarly disputes, we will stifle the very spirit of academia. >I have never tried to take anything away from what you were proclaiming as >your interpretation of XIX century relationship as it is described by >Pushkin because my statement was not and is not meant to be political. It >might affect your political views or the strong feelings that you have but >it is unavoidable in discussing anything that many people find >controversial. It is quite common to see in such discussions a mixture of >academic and political positions if the latter ones are held quite >strongly, or at least one might be able to deduce what those political >positions are. Nevertheless, the only way of avoiding the unpleasantness >of the corresponding expressions is to avoid any discussions of such >topics. I do not believe that we should be placed in a position of >defending ourselves from accusations in bigotry; and I do not want to >discuss what happened in our history when people were forced to give an >oath of loyalty because I would be using then a political argument myself. >So, going back to literary criticism, I have not seen so far anything in >your position that would indicate that this position of your is not >affected by XXI century. I believe that this is the key which would >provide your position with credibility going beyond the expression of >your opinion. Again, this is not related to somebody's view on >homosexuality or bisexuality either at present or in historical context. >This challenge is dictated purely by the logic of your arguments, and by >nothing else. >However, please take into account that the credibility of the result of >your analysis if you present one is not greater than the credibility of >the methods utilized there. If you make your demonstration rooted in >psychoanalysis, it is COMPLETELY fine with me with just one caveat: the >credibility of the result will be in direct proportion to the credibility >of the psychoanalytical methods you would use. Of course, this credibility >will be different for each of us. Nevertheless, this would be the way to >avoid the confusion of the two questons I was discussing, and it will show >the actual logical step from one of them to the other one. > >Sicerely, > >Edward Dumanis > > >On Fri, 7 Apr 2006, Edward M Dumanis wrote: > > > >>On Thu, 6 Apr 2006, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: >> >>......../snip/......... >> >> >>>Agreed. But there is no "real" Onegin. We have all been constructing >>>him for ourselves ever since Pushkin did. But some constructs are more >>>interesting than others, and some constructs explain certain things >>>better than others. >>> >>> >>The most interesting versions of the murder are not necessarily correct. >>However, it does not make them less interesting. Let's call the version of >>Onegin that Pushkin had correct by the definition. It does not mean that >>we ever know what that version was but we can utilize some methods of >>reconstruction which, we believe, will lead us closer to that correct >>version. Please keep in mind that it would not necessarily be an >>interesting version. On the other hand, there are might be some >>interesting versions but not necessarily correct ones. This is what I >>meant talking about the two different systems of literary reconstruction, >>and my plea was not to confuse them. >> >> >> >> >>>................/snip/................ >>> >>>Edward Dumanis writes: >>> >>> >>> >>>>A famous contemporary Russian songwriter, Veronika Dolina, has a poem >>>>where she portraits Sancho Panza as a woman who is in love with her >>>>master. It's a wonderful song, however, I have not heard about anybody >>>>thinking that this might be what was in Cervantes' subconsciousness. Or >>>>was it? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>First, the correct psychoanalytic term is "unconscious" ("subconscious" >>>if you are a Jungian). Second, I say: if Veronika Dolina can imagine >>>Sancho in love with Quixote, Tat'iana can imagine Onegin in love with >>>Lenskii. >>> >>> >>> >>Thank you for correcting me. I have no clue how this "-ness" went into my >>writing. However, I need to clarify my example with Dolina. She explicitly >>interpret Sancho as a woman in love with Quixote, not a man. It is an >>interesting interpretation of Tat'iana imagining Onegin in love with >>Lenskii. However, it does contradict to the duller reality of her >>upbringing. Nevertheless it it still interesting. We can certainly imagine >>such things happening. It would not be Pushkin's realism in that case but >>so what? It will be your or my Onegin but not Pushkin's. Does it matter or >>not? - it is a completely different story. >> >>Sincerely, >> >>Edward Dumanis >> >> >> >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM Sun Apr 16 22:50:27 2006 From: tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM (Timothy D. Sergay) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 18:50:27 -0400 Subject: kaverznye voprosy Message-ID: This is nice; also "loaded questions" can be used in a jocular situation. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Deborah Hoffman" To: Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2006 12:12 AM Subject: [SEELANGS] kaverznye voprosy > How about simply "provocative questions"? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ah69 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sun Apr 16 23:21:10 2006 From: ah69 at COLUMBIA.EDU (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Andy_Hicks?=) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2006 19:21:10 -0400 Subject: Balkanists Needed for Tondal's Vision Message-ID: For a February 24 performance of medieval Dalmatian choral music by Katarina Livljanic and Dialogos in Kansas City (much from the album described here: http://www.ensemble-dialogos.org/en/discography/en_cd_tondal.htm), the presenters are looking for an expert or two who could provide some context in related educational events. Scholarly discipline is less important than erudition and the ability to engage a general audience. The concert will coincide with a meeting of the Medieval Association of the Midwest. If you are interested, or know someone who might be, please respond to me off list. Many thanks, Andy Hicks ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Irene.Zohrab at VUW.AC.NZ Sun Apr 16 23:58:35 2006 From: Irene.Zohrab at VUW.AC.NZ (Irene Zohrab) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:58:35 +1200 Subject: Onegin et al. (correction & reply) Message-ID: Dear Vera Beljakova, I feel obliged to comment on your statement that the current postings relating to homosexuality are “quasi-political” and have nothing to do with the culture of Russia in the nineteenth century. Not wishing to “overwork” these “notions” I feel it is only fair to remember that there is evidence to show that homosexuality was not unknown in many sections of Russian society in the nineteenth century. Already in 1830-40s according to the Memoirs of “Peterburgskii starozhil”, the pseudonym of V P Burnashev (1810-1888) (a writer mainly of childrens’ literature) “pederasticheskii razvrat” as he refers to it, was prevalent in St. Petersburg. Amongst other things he notes that along the Nevsky, in addition to the usual street women, there were also young men: ”Vse eto byli prekhoroshen’kie soboiu foreitory. . .kantonistiki, pevchie razlichnykh khorov, remeslennye ucheniki opriatnykh masterstv, preimushchenstvenno parikhmakherskogo, oboinogo, portnogo, a takzhe lavochnye mal’chiki bez mest, moloden’kie pisar’ki voennogo i morskogo ministerstv, nakonets dazhe vitsmundirnye kantseliarskie chinovniki raznykh departamentov. . . . mezhdu molodymi izvozchikami, osobenno likhachami, bylo ves’ma mnogo paren’kov, promyshliavshikh etim gnusnym promyslom”. (Quoted in: K.K. Rotikov, Drugoi Peterburg, Sankt-Peterburg, 1998, pages 357-8) In relation to the elite “salons of St Petersburg” there is an interesting publication printed in Geneva in 1879 (due to censorship in Russia) entitled “Erot Russe: Ne dlia Dam” that consists of homoerotic material. The collection opens with an ironic address to the reader pointing out that the contents is a reflection of the mores of a number of well-known educational institutions that had produced many of Russia’s leading personages and statesmen in the past. It contains amongst other things the well-known long poem by A F Shenin “The adventures of a Page” and some early poems of Lermontov’s. There is more evidence regarding the latter part of the nineteenth century. Often cited is the report by the Minister of State Property. M.N. Ostrovsky (the brother of the playwright) that supplies some graphic details about homosexuality in St. Petersburg of the 1880s: “porok muzhelozhestva sushchestvuet uzhe neskol’ko let, no nikogda ne prinimal takogo razmera, kak v nastoiashchee vremia, kogda, mozhno skazat’, net ni odnogo klassa v peterburgskom naselenii, sredi kotorogo ne okazyvalos’ by mnogo ego posledovatelei. . . . ”. (Quoted in Rotikov, p.358-360) Various other sources could be cited. I.Z. -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list on behalf of atacama at global.co.za Sent: Sun 4/16/2006 9:53 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Onegin et al. (correction & reply) Dear Dr. Daniel Rancour-Laferriere, I understand Edward Dumanis to you very well. You are giving the image of promoting the Gay-Culture, which has taken on quasi-political status in the Western World, and is a 21st c. (late 20th c.) phenomenon, trying to use poor Onegin as a vehicle, but this has very little to do with 19th century reality of Tatyana's provincial Russia or the elite salons of St. Petersburg. Toying with such notions is one thing, and can be quite amusing for this Listserv, but I am alarmed when such notions are taken seriously or overworked. Therein lies the crux of the matter. With respects, Vera Beljakova Johannesburg -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list on behalf of Daniel Rancour-Laferriere Sent: Sun 4/16/2006 6:06 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Onegin et al. (correction & reply) Dear Edward Dumanis, I have read your message several times, and I cannot understand it, especially your usage of the word "political." Please try to distill your message into a single straightforward paragraph so that I can give a simple and direct response. Thank you, Sincerely, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon Apr 17 17:19:43 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 13:19:43 -0400 Subject: URL: Font conversion issue Message-ID: Ran across this Microsoft support page while looking for something else -- perhaps someone will find it useful. Fair warning: I have not tested this and cannot answer any questions about it. WD2000: Incorrect Characters Appear When You Open Document in Earlier Eastern European Version of Word SYMPTOMS When you open a Word document that was created using an earlier Eastern European version of Microsoft Word, the text of the document may appear as square boxes or other incorrect characters when you open the document in the English (U.S.) version of Microsoft Word. CAUSE This problem is caused by font-mapping and character-mapping problems. For example, this problem can occur when you create a document by using a font that is not installed on your computer. RESOLUTION ... -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Mon Apr 17 18:57:08 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 14:57:08 -0400 Subject: private Onegin et al. (correction & reply) Message-ID: Dear Irene Zohrab, Thank you for taking the time to write you letter to me, which I appreciate. Yes, of course, homosexuality and male prostitution will occur in all societies, but in some it will be rampant in your face, as is the case in USA, and in others it is a punishable offence, while in others it is kept under wraps. No doubt about it. But personally, I think, in terms of Pushkin, Onegin and Tatyana Dr Daniel r. is going overboard and is flaunting his ideas in an unseemly manner, much as a street rioter waves his banner. Only Pushkin knew his Onegin as he was the character's creator, and Tatyana, no mater what, was a simple provincial girl .... I had a private correspondence with Daniel, in which I doubted that Tatyana would have understood what homosexuality was. I was a student in England, very urbanised in the 1960s, and it was only once I arrived at university aged 18, only then, did I hear and learn that there was homosexuality - simply because I was explained what all those swear words were. it came as a shock to a 1960s student, never mind an early 19th provincial character. Remember, Queen Victoria did not ban lesbianism as a crime, because he was convinced such a crime could not occur or exist. Anyhow, I have received many letters of support for defending Onegin from Daniel's attacks, but it saddens me that these men write to me because they date not be seen as politically incorrect and envy me my indepenedence. best wishes Vera Beljakova Johannesburg, where we certainly have an active politicised gay culture movement. Original Message: ----------------- From: Irene Zohrab Irene.Zohrab at VUW.AC.NZ Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 11:58:35 +1200 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Onegin et al. (correction & reply) Dear Vera Beljakova, I feel obliged to comment on your statement that the current postings relating to homosexuality are “quasi-political” and have nothing to do with the culture of Russia in the nineteenth century. Not wishing to “overwork” these “notions” I feel it is only fair to remember that there is evidence to show that homosexuality was not unknown in many sections of Russian society in the nineteenth century. Already in 1830-40s according to the Memoirs of “Peterburgskii starozhil”, the pseudonym of V P Burnashev (1810-1888) (a writer mainly of childrens’ literature) “pederasticheskii razvrat” as he refers to it, was prevalent in St. Petersburg. Amongst other things he notes that along the Nevsky, in addition to the usual street women, there were also young men: ”Vse eto byli prekhoroshen’kie soboiu foreitory. . .kantonistiki, pevchie razlichnykh khorov, remeslennye ucheniki opriatnykh masterstv, preimushchenstvenno parikhmakherskogo, oboinogo, portnogo, a takzhe lavochnye mal’chiki bez mest, moloden’kie pisar’ki voennogo i morskogo ministerstv, nakonets dazhe vitsmundirnye kantseliarskie chinovniki raznykh departamentov. . . . mezhdu molodymi izvozchikami, osobenno likhachami, bylo ves’ma mnogo paren’kov, promyshliavshikh etim gnusnym promyslom”. (Quoted in: K.K. Rotikov, Drugoi Peterburg, Sankt-Peterburg, 1998, pages 357-8) In relation to the elite “salons of St Petersburg” there is an interesting publication printed in Geneva in 1879 (due to censorship in Russia) entitled “Erot Russe: Ne dlia Dam” that consists of homoerotic material. The collection opens with an ironic address to the reader pointing out that the contents is a reflection of the mores of a number of well-known educational institutions that had produced many of Russia’s leading personages and statesmen in the past. It contains amongst other things the well-known long poem by A F Shenin “The adventures of a Page” and some early poems of Lermontov’s. There is more evidence regarding the latter part of the nineteenth century. Often cited is the report by the Minister of State Property. M.N. Ostrovsky (the brother of the playwright) that supplies some graphic details about homosexuality in St. Petersburg of the 1880s: “porok muzhelozhestva sushchestvuet uzhe neskol’ko let, no nikogda ne prinimal takogo razmera, kak v nastoiashchee vremia, kogda, mozhno skazat’, net ni odnogo klassa v peterburgskom naselenii, sredi kotorogo ne okazyvalos’ by mnogo ego posledovatelei. . . . ”. (Quoted in Rotikov, p.358-360) Various other sources could be cited. I.Z. -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list on behalf of atacama at global.co.za Sent: Sun 4/16/2006 9:53 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Onegin et al. (correction & reply) Dear Dr. Daniel Rancour-Laferriere, I understand Edward Dumanis to you very well. You are giving the image of promoting the Gay-Culture, which has taken on quasi-political status in the Western World, and is a 21st c. (late 20th c.) phenomenon, trying to use poor Onegin as a vehicle, but this has very little to do with 19th century reality of Tatyana's provincial Russia or the elite salons of St. Petersburg. Toying with such notions is one thing, and can be quite amusing for this Listserv, but I am alarmed when such notions are taken seriously or overworked. Therein lies the crux of the matter. With respects, Vera Beljakova Johannesburg -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list on behalf of Daniel Rancour-Laferriere Sent: Sun 4/16/2006 6:06 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Onegin et al. (correction & reply) Dear Edward Dumanis, I have read your message several times, and I cannot understand it, especially your usage of the word "political." Please try to distill your message into a single straightforward paragraph so that I can give a simple and direct response. Thank you, Sincerely, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Mon Apr 17 19:12:03 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 12:12:03 -0700 Subject: Onegin et al. (correction & reply) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 17 April 2006 Dear Irene Zohrab, Thank you for supplying us with this most valuable information. I was aware of the "Ne dlia Dam" volume which included some works by Lermontov, but the other material is new to me. I now feel more confident in my 1989 assertion about Onegin's latent homosexuality, but I do not expect apologies from either the homophobes who were personally offended by my assertion, or from the homophiles who disregarded my assertion after 1989. Sincerely, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere Irene Zohrab wrote: >Dear Vera Beljakova, > >I feel obliged to comment on your statement that the current postings relating to homosexuality are “quasi-political” and have nothing to do with the culture of Russia in the nineteenth century. Not wishing to “overwork” these “notions” I feel it is only fair to remember that there is evidence to show that homosexuality was not unknown in many sections of Russian society in the nineteenth century. Already in 1830-40s according to the Memoirs of “Peterburgskii starozhil”, the pseudonym of V P Burnashev (1810-1888) (a writer mainly of childrens’ literature) “pederasticheskii razvrat” as he refers to it, was prevalent in St. Petersburg. Amongst other things he notes that along the Nevsky, in addition to the usual street women, there were also young men: ”Vse eto byli prekhoroshen’kie soboiu foreitory. . .kantonistiki, pevchie razlichnykh khorov, remeslennye ucheniki opriatnykh masterstv, preimushchenstvenno parikhmakherskogo, oboinogo, portnogo, a takzhe lavochnye mal’chiki bez mest, moloden’kie pisar’ki voennogo i morskogo ministerstv, nakonets dazhe vitsmundirnye kantseliarskie chinovniki raznykh departamentov. . . . mezhdu molodymi izvozchikami, osobenno likhachami, bylo ves’ma mnogo paren’kov, promyshliavshikh etim gnusnym promyslom”. (Quoted in: K.K. Rotikov, Drugoi Peterburg, Sankt-Peterburg, 1998, pages 357-8) >In relation to the elite “salons of St Petersburg” there is an interesting publication printed in Geneva in 1879 (due to censorship in Russia) entitled “Erot Russe: Ne dlia Dam” that consists of homoerotic material. The collection opens with an ironic address to the reader pointing out that the contents is a reflection of the mores of a number of well-known educational institutions that had produced many of Russia’s leading personages and statesmen in the past. It contains amongst other things the well-known long poem by A F Shenin “The adventures of a Page” and some early poems of Lermontov’s. >There is more evidence regarding the latter part of the nineteenth century. Often cited is the report by the Minister of State Property. M.N. Ostrovsky (the brother of the playwright) that supplies some graphic details about homosexuality in St. Petersburg of the 1880s: “porok muzhelozhestva sushchestvuet uzhe neskol’ko let, no nikogda ne prinimal takogo razmera, kak v nastoiashchee vremia, kogda, mozhno skazat’, net ni odnogo klassa v peterburgskom naselenii, sredi kotorogo ne okazyvalos’ by mnogo ego posledovatelei. . . . ”. (Quoted in Rotikov, p.358-360) > >Various other sources could be cited. > >I.Z. > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emil.niculescu at YALE.EDU Tue Apr 18 01:24:40 2006 From: emil.niculescu at YALE.EDU (Emil Niculescu) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 21:24:40 -0400 Subject: St. Petersburg apartment Message-ID: Dear all, I was wondering if it's reasonable to expect finding and successfully renting an apartment in Saint Petersburg this summer for $200 to $400. The dates would be June to end of July. Thank you so much for your help, Emil Niculescu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Tue Apr 18 02:42:43 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:42:43 -0700 Subject: Onegin et al. Message-ID: Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: "The approach of Maryna Vinarska is paranoid, and does not have much to do with Onegin". .................I would appreciate very much if next time you read the original message and the question posed in it. My comment does have nothing to do with Onegin but with the query about that linguistic creativity caused by the wish to avoid using the word "goluboi" when commenting on the Oxford-Cambridge boat race. I hope you are not going to accuse the whole website of any _phobia_ because they used the word "svelto-sinij" definitely trying to avoid the word "goluboj". I assure you that "svetlo-sinij" is nonsense. To make my comment on the issue clearer I am pasting now my additional comment which was sent privately. Here it is in its original form: "The word is actually not offensive or smth. Not at all. The attitude is really simply humorous, like in many other cases. The number of jokes about "daltoniki" exceeds the number of jokes about "golubyje", believe me. But I think that the jokes about blondes "po-prezhnemu lidirujut". To be a blonde is also a diagnosis in all societies... And what? I got accustomed to live with this diagnosis... don't react when I get a new joke about how stupid we are... But sure, it is still supposed that those having daltonism don't start proclaiming that the way how they see the world is the only right one, and those having diabitis don't start recruiting every second person for using saccharine whatever reasons they may have. And we, blondes, are not going, in this case, to persuade everybody into dying their hair to join our company." "What is wrong with being gay?" .............................In the present day Ukraine there is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay or whoever at all. It is actually not interesting to anybody at all, if this or that person is gay, straight, has diabitis or heart failure or doesn't have anything at all. It is a private business of everybody. And let it be like this if it is okay for that country. That what you are doing is called in Russian "peredergivat". The starting point, as far as I remember, was psychoanalysis as a research tool in literary criticism. "It is NOT a "medical condition," contrary to what Vinarska says. Freud himself thought homosexual orientation was perverse or neurotic, but psychoanalysis has come a long way since Freud." ............................As to whether homosexuality is a medical condition (or congenital disease) or not I can only add that this is what it is still considered to be among regular inhabitants in my native Ukraine, as far as I know, regardless of whether smb likes it or not. I hope you are not up to organizing a sexual revolution in that country. Besides, I have a long and very challenging career behind my back, working as an in-house translator for three research institutes of medical profile as well. I am not commenting, I am just reporting. Homosexuality was a permanently discussed topic in The Lancet. I assure you that The Lancet is not smth like Cosmopolitan or Playboy. However, Vladivostok seems to be in Russia. About what was going on in Vladivostok, when Boris Moiseev was supposed to come with his concert, I read on the BBC site. Those events are the echo of those early days when it was really open propaganda promoting homosexuality as a lifestyle. People still can't forget it, no matter that Boris Moiseev stopped showing up in stockings, lipsticked, etc. long ago. He is loved by everyone. And his singing that old song "My vam chestno skazat' khotim, na devchonok my bol'she ne gliadim" in the concert "Noch' v stile disko" is a good example showing that the attitude to homosexuality is humorous and ironical and nothing more. No one chases gays either in Russia or in Ukraine. But I suppose that no one wants that propaganda-circus again as well, especially if Onegin is to take part in it. And in this connection I would like to express my hope that Dr. Rancour-Laferriere is not going to proclaim Patriarch Alexius II or Archbishop Benjamin of the Vladivostok Diocese _paranoid_ only because at the moment they have their own point of view on homosexuality (rather tough, unfortunately) which is actually their right as well as long as it concerns Russia and not the USA. I would like to inform the list owner that it may actually lead to an international scandal if Dr. Rancour-Laferriere proceeds with his diagnostic activities so far... I am actually ready to admit my ignorance on the issue, with me it is absolutely okay. I am ready to accept even that gays are aliens and let's live peacefully. But I still can't understand why Onegin became gay. Because he was a Dandy, because he rejected Tatijana and because he was compared to "vetrennaja Venera"? I am sorry, but should I, in this case, treat the following joke, I once heard in class, seriously: "A chego eto sem' muzhikov voobshche v odnom dome zhili, bez zhenshchin?" It was said about "7 bogatyrej" in "Skazka o mertvoj zarevne i o semi bogatyriakh" written by the same guy called Pushkin! Jesus! Is everything, he wrote, about gays? Really! Why did 7 guys live together and without women? Huh? Should I let students work on that and, probably, let them draw a parallel with those politically organized "men's houses" somewhere in New Guinea or wherever else, no matter that Pushkin never visited that place and that those houses maybe didn't exist at all when he wrote that tale, and so on and so forth?.. I do like having fun very much but I have my own point of view as to what education should actually be. "Note also the xenophobia in this formulation: "our" heroes are not here to defend themselves. From whom? From some non-Russian "other" who has no business looking into the sexual proclivities of certain Russians? " .............................I don't know what the word "xenophobia" means in American English (no one accused me of it in the USA to make me consult the Webster's) but my Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary says the following: "xenophobia - a strong feeling of dislike or fear of people from other countries". As far as I remember, Vera Beliakova is Russian, brought up and educated in the UK, currently living in SA. I doubt that she can be xenophobic in any way. I myself am a multilingual product of cross-cultural marriages, but there were no ethnic Russians among my ancestors at all. Being actually absolutely non-Russian myself I simply can't have smth against other non-Russians in your perception. Sorry! Your accusation has no real ground under it. And if you think that we have "fear", as my dictionary also defines xenophobia, of people from other countries, I would like to say that it is better not to rely on this idea. I don't know what is in that your book "The Slave Soul of Russia", I haven't read it yet, but I assure you that there is nothing of slaves in our souls. I once heard or read somewhere that being rude and aggressive is exactly the sign of having fear. Besides, I would like to emphasize that under "our" literary heroes not exclusively heroes from the Russian Literature were mentioned, but Hamlet "in tights" as well. "Maryna Vinarska's xenophobic soprotivlenie is narrow and focused, but it is clearly there nevertheless.................." ....................... Dr. Rancour-Laferriere , I would like to hear if it is a common practice among American academicians to quote from the message which was sent to you _privately_ or it is the sign of particular selectivity in this respect shown by you. I assure the list members that in my native country quoting from a _privately_ sent message is considered to be more than inappropriate. Just because the passages quoted by Dr. Rancour-Laferriere also show some particular selectivity, I would like to add that my idea was that we need all our characters like Onegin, Pechorin, Oblomov, etc. in their more or less _original_ form for children in schools. New interpretations are always and everywhere appreciated, but only if they result from using research tools which use facts and not smb's fantasies. As John Reed, who's no more with us, once told me: "Making Onegin gay is like taking the Mona Lisa and adding the moustache and goatee that she "must have really had"". In my _private_ e-mail I mentioned then the question I once heard from many Ukrainian colleagues who are, sure, aware of all those new tendencies and approaches: "Na chem budem detej vospityvat'? Na pokemonakh?" In my _private_ message to Dr. Rancour-Laferriere I explained the following: Under "vospityvat'" in this particular context, not enlightening on questions of human sexuality is meant, but that what is probably the reason why many of those crazy Russians (under Russians I mean all those born in the former USSR) still believe that it is not exclusively our sex drive which predetermines our behaviour in every situation, and that of Onegin as well, when he rejected Tatiana, but smth else which is so difficult to define, describe or analyse and that is probably, in its turn, the reason why Russians (again, all of us) got that characteristic - crazy... which I myself treat as a positive one. My colleagues in Ukraine, I am in contact with, definitely don't want it to look like this: "So why do you think Onegin rejected Tatiana?" "He was homosexual!" "Then why did he fall in love with her at the end of the novel?" "He might be bisexual!" Indeed, why try to understand why he _really_ rejected her? Psychoanalysis can make everything so pretty simple, quick and clear! To dig up deep into the history in order to understand what was what at that time is, sure, very time-consuming... "No, thank you. Your classics are wonderful (including the components of "golubaia kul'tura" within them). " ....................So dear Dr. Rancour-Laferriere, okay, but can't you in this case be a little bit more flexible, more receptive, not so overtly _aggressive_ if you realize that smb doesn't see Onegin like you want it. Be ready then to see a comment on your interpretations in the style of John Reed, whose life has been cut short so prematurely. Don't be so aggressive. What is this aggressiveness? What would Freud say about this aggressiveness? Pity that you have no sense of humour at all... "You can't chase me away that easily." ....................Dear professor, what is this strange statement? Did anybody attack you in that your sunny California or what? "I've been in this business for over thirty years, and even if I drop dead tomorrow, what's done is done. I don't believe Bulgakov's idea that "Rukopisi ne goriat," but I do know that you cannot unpublish books." .......................Dear Dr. Rancour-Laferriere, who do you actually mean saying "_you_ cannot unpublish books"? Who is that "you"?.. Who are you addressing?.. Who is that mysterious "you"?.. Is there any mafia in California chasing scholars or what?.. In my native country we have only literary critics Would you be so kind to specify who you are so afraid of? I hope it is not those legendary KGB agents. I thought that the time when everybody thought he was chased by KGB agents is over... I am puzzled. I am sure that many people have a great interest in all your books. Let them be. I do love them in advance. At the moment I am trying to find your "The Slave Soul of Russia". I will not leave any line unread because I want to understand which research tool you used to come up, as a result, with this very peculiar title. Or maybe this title is only a joke and not one more of your very special diagnoses. I wonder if you left anybody straight, not paranoid in any way, having no any phobia at all? It seems that you managed to do smth unbelievable at all: you managed to psychoanalyse the whole country. I mean that your "The Slave Soul of Russia". "I wonder if the mind of Lovelace has ever been psychoanalyzed, by the way?" ..................... I don't care very much if you, Dr. Rancour-Laferriere, are going to psychoanalyse the mind of Lovelace now (the guy doesn't qualify for standing in a row together with Onegin, Pechorin, etc.), but I am definitely against the idea that you think, you have the right to psychoanalyse list members as well. Dear Dr. Rancour-Laferriere, I would like to know if you have a license. Regards, Maryna Vinarska --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Tue Apr 18 03:00:02 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 20:00:02 -0700 Subject: Onegin et al. (correction & reply) In-Reply-To: <4443E883.80307@comcast.net> Message-ID: Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: I do not expect apologies from either the homophobes who were personally offended by my assertion, or from the homophiles who disregarded my assertion after 1989. ................................As far as I remember, nobody attacked you at all for you to expect apologies. I wonder if you ever sued any of literary critics... Dear professor, what is it about at all? See Onegin like you want. It is your full right. Exactly like it is the full right of any other person to see Onegin like he or she wants. And what is this nonsense with homophobes/homophiles? Tomorrow you may say that Pechorin is gay. Will everybody who doesn't see him that way also a homophobe? Are you going to say then that the whole this world consists practically only of homophobes? And by the way, this world is very big. And you are not the center of this world. But it seems you don't realize it... Actually, I like that Nietzschean "You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it doesn't exist." How about that? And let‘s stop this nonsense. Regards, Maryna Vinarska --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Tue Apr 18 07:11:29 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 03:11:29 -0400 Subject: private / from vera / Onegin et al. Message-ID: Dear Maryna, I loved every word ! You see, we are independents and can say waht we think, whereas many American academics are sitting in colleges scared of losing their tenure or jobs or having homosexuals demostrate against them or selfsame students asking that their lecturers be removed. They have to toe the politically correct line - self-censorship They are like little scared rabbits sitting in the headlights of a car. Professor D. is also a vey popmpous ass. He loathes me by now. Vera Beljakova Russian, schooling in German and England, resident of Africa. Original Message: ----------------- From: Maryna Vinarska vinarska at YAHOO.COM Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2006 19:42:43 -0700 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Onegin et al. Daniel Rancour-Laferriere wrote: "The approach of Maryna Vinarska is paranoid, and does not have much to do with Onegin". .................I would appreciate very much if next time you read the original message and the question posed in it. My comment does have nothing to do with Onegin but with the query about that linguistic creativity caused by the wish to avoid using the word "goluboi" when commenting on the Oxford-Cambridge boat race. I hope you are not going to accuse the whole website of any _phobia_ because they used the word "svelto-sinij" definitely trying to avoid the word "goluboj". I assure you that "svetlo-sinij" is nonsense. To make my comment on the issue clearer I am pasting now my additional comment which was sent privately. Here it is in its original form: "The word is actually not offensive or smth. Not at all. The attitude is really simply humorous, like in many other cases. The number of jokes about "daltoniki" exceeds the number of jokes about "golubyje", believe me. But I think that the jokes about blondes "po-prezhnemu lidirujut". To be a blonde is also a diagnosis in all societies... And what? I got accustomed to live with this diagnosis... don't react when I get a new joke about how stupid we are... But sure, it is still supposed that those having daltonism don't start proclaiming that the way how they see the world is the only right one, and those having diabitis don't start recruiting every second person for using saccharine whatever reasons they may have. And we, blondes, are not going, in this case, to persuade everybody into dying their hair to join our company." "What is wrong with being gay?" .............................In the present day Ukraine there is absolutely nothing wrong with being gay or whoever at all. It is actually not interesting to anybody at all, if this or that person is gay, straight, has diabitis or heart failure or doesn't have anything at all. It is a private business of everybody. And let it be like this if it is okay for that country. That what you are doing is called in Russian "peredergivat". The starting point, as far as I remember, was psychoanalysis as a research tool in literary criticism. "It is NOT a "medical condition," contrary to what Vinarska says. Freud himself thought homosexual orientation was perverse or neurotic, but psychoanalysis has come a long way since Freud." ............................As to whether homosexuality is a medical condition (or congenital disease) or not I can only add that this is what it is still considered to be among regular inhabitants in my native Ukraine, as far as I know, regardless of whether smb likes it or not. I hope you are not up to organizing a sexual revolution in that country. Besides, I have a long and very challenging career behind my back, working as an in-house translator for three research institutes of medical profile as well. I am not commenting, I am just reporting. Homosexuality was a permanently discussed topic in The Lancet. I assure you that The Lancet is not smth like Cosmopolitan or Playboy. However, Vladivostok seems to be in Russia. About what was going on in Vladivostok, when Boris Moiseev was supposed to come with his concert, I read on the BBC site. Those events are the echo of those early days when it was really open propaganda promoting homosexuality as a lifestyle. People still can't forget it, no matter that Boris Moiseev stopped showing up in stockings, lipsticked, etc. long ago. He is loved by everyone. And his singing that old song "My vam chestno skazat' khotim, na devchonok my bol'she ne gliadim" in the concert "Noch' v stile disko" is a good example showing that the attitude to homosexuality is humorous and ironical and nothing more. No one chases gays either in Russia or in Ukraine. But I suppose that no one wants that propaganda-circus again as well, especially if Onegin is to take part in it. And in this connection I would like to express my hope that Dr. Rancour-Laferriere is not going to proclaim Patriarch Alexius II or Archbishop Benjamin of the Vladivostok Diocese _paranoid_ only because at the moment they have their own point of view on homosexuality (rather tough, unfortunately) which is actually their right as well as long as it concerns Russia and not the USA. I would like to inform the list owner that it may actually lead to an international scandal if Dr. Rancour-Laferriere proceeds with his diagnostic activities so far... I am actually ready to admit my ignorance on the issue, with me it is absolutely okay. I am ready to accept even that gays are aliens and let's live peacefully. But I still can't understand why Onegin became gay. Because he was a Dandy, because he rejected Tatijana and because he was compared to "vetrennaja Venera"? I am sorry, but should I, in this case, treat the following joke, I once heard in class, seriously: "A chego eto sem' muzhikov voobshche v odnom dome zhili, bez zhenshchin?" It was said about "7 bogatyrej" in "Skazka o mertvoj zarevne i o semi bogatyriakh" written by the same guy called Pushkin! Jesus! Is everything, he wrote, about gays? Really! Why did 7 guys live together and without women? Huh? Should I let students work on that and, probably, let them draw a parallel with those politically organized "men's houses" somewhere in New Guinea or wherever else, no matter that Pushkin never visited that place and that those houses maybe didn't exist at all when he wrote that tale, and so on and so forth?.. I do like having fun very much but I have my own point of view as to what education should actually be. "Note also the xenophobia in this formulation: "our" heroes are not here to defend themselves. From whom? From some non-Russian "other" who has no business looking into the sexual proclivities of certain Russians? " .............................I don't know what the word "xenophobia" means in American English (no one accused me of it in the USA to make me consult the Webster's) but my Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary says the following: "xenophobia - a strong feeling of dislike or fear of people from other countries". As far as I remember, Vera Beliakova is Russian, brought up and educated in the UK, currently living in SA. I doubt that she can be xenophobic in any way. I myself am a multilingual product of cross-cultural marriages, but there were no ethnic Russians among my ancestors at all. Being actually absolutely non-Russian myself I simply can't have smth against other non-Russians in your perception. Sorry! Your accusation has no real ground under it. And if you think that we have "fear", as my dictionary also defines xenophobia, of people from other countries, I would like to say that it is better not to rely on this idea. I don't know what is in that your book "The Slave Soul of Russia", I haven't read it yet, but I assure you that there is nothing of slaves in our souls. I once heard or read somewhere that being rude and aggressive is exactly the sign of having fear. Besides, I would like to emphasize that under "our" literary heroes not exclusively heroes from the Russian Literature were mentioned, but Hamlet "in tights" as well. "Maryna Vinarska's xenophobic soprotivlenie is narrow and focused, but it is clearly there nevertheless.................." ....................... Dr. Rancour-Laferriere , I would like to hear if it is a common practice among American academicians to quote from the message which was sent to you _privately_ or it is the sign of particular selectivity in this respect shown by you. I assure the list members that in my native country quoting from a _privately_ sent message is considered to be more than inappropriate. Just because the passages quoted by Dr. Rancour-Laferriere also show some particular selectivity, I would like to add that my idea was that we need all our characters like Onegin, Pechorin, Oblomov, etc. in their more or less _original_ form for children in schools. New interpretations are always and everywhere appreciated, but only if they result from using research tools which use facts and not smb's fantasies. As John Reed, who's no more with us, once told me: "Making Onegin gay is like taking the Mona Lisa and adding the moustache and goatee that she "must have really had"". In my _private_ e-mail I mentioned then the question I once heard from many Ukrainian colleagues who are, sure, aware of all those new tendencies and approaches: "Na chem budem detej vospityvat'? Na pokemonakh?" In my _private_ message to Dr. Rancour-Laferriere I explained the following: Under "vospityvat'" in this particular context, not enlightening on questions of human sexuality is meant, but that what is probably the reason why many of those crazy Russians (under Russians I mean all those born in the former USSR) still believe that it is not exclusively our sex drive which predetermines our behaviour in every situation, and that of Onegin as well, when he rejected Tatiana, but smth else which is so difficult to define, describe or analyse and that is probably, in its turn, the reason why Russians (again, all of us) got that characteristic - crazy... which I myself treat as a positive one. My colleagues in Ukraine, I am in contact with, definitely don't want it to look like this: "So why do you think Onegin rejected Tatiana?" "He was homosexual!" "Then why did he fall in love with her at the end of the novel?" "He might be bisexual!" Indeed, why try to understand why he _really_ rejected her? Psychoanalysis can make everything so pretty simple, quick and clear! To dig up deep into the history in order to understand what was what at that time is, sure, very time-consuming... "No, thank you. Your classics are wonderful (including the components of "golubaia kul'tura" within them). " ....................So dear Dr. Rancour-Laferriere, okay, but can't you in this case be a little bit more flexible, more receptive, not so overtly _aggressive_ if you realize that smb doesn't see Onegin like you want it. Be ready then to see a comment on your interpretations in the style of John Reed, whose life has been cut short so prematurely. Don't be so aggressive. What is this aggressiveness? What would Freud say about this aggressiveness? Pity that you have no sense of humour at all... "You can't chase me away that easily." ....................Dear professor, what is this strange statement? Did anybody attack you in that your sunny California or what? "I've been in this business for over thirty years, and even if I drop dead tomorrow, what's done is done. I don't believe Bulgakov's idea that "Rukopisi ne goriat," but I do know that you cannot unpublish books." .......................Dear Dr. Rancour-Laferriere, who do you actually mean saying "_you_ cannot unpublish books"? Who is that "you"?.. Who are you addressing?.. Who is that mysterious "you"?.. Is there any mafia in California chasing scholars or what?.. In my native country we have only literary critics Would you be so kind to specify who you are so afraid of? I hope it is not those legendary KGB agents. I thought that the time when everybody thought he was chased by KGB agents is over... I am puzzled. I am sure that many people have a great interest in all your books. Let them be. I do love them in advance. At the moment I am trying to find your "The Slave Soul of Russia". I will not leave any line unread because I want to understand which research tool you used to come up, as a result, with this very peculiar title. Or maybe this title is only a joke and not one more of your very special diagnoses. I wonder if you left anybody straight, not paranoid in any way, having no any phobia at all? It seems that you managed to do smth unbelievable at all: you managed to psychoanalyse the whole country. I mean that your "The Slave Soul of Russia". "I wonder if the mind of Lovelace has ever been psychoanalyzed, by the way?" ..................... I don't care very much if you, Dr. Rancour-Laferriere, are going to psychoanalyse the mind of Lovelace now (the guy doesn't qualify for standing in a row together with Onegin, Pechorin, etc.), but I am definitely against the idea that you think, you have the right to psychoanalyse list members as well. Dear Dr. Rancour-Laferriere, I would like to know if you have a license. Regards, Maryna Vinarska --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ihelfant at MAIL.COLGATE.EDU Tue Apr 18 12:22:50 2006 From: ihelfant at MAIL.COLGATE.EDU (=?koi8-r?Q?Ian_Helfant?=) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:22:50 -0400 Subject: seeking Petersburg apartment for June 06 Message-ID: Hello, all -- I'm looking for a centrally located apartment in Petersburg for the month of June. I'll be doing research primarily at the National Library with some trips as well to the Academy of Sciences Library and Pushkinskii Dom. I'll be looking through mid to late 19th-century hunting journals in pursuit of an ecocritical project on hunting and the rise of conservationism in pre-revolutionary Russia. I'd appreciate any leads, as I'd prefer to avoid going through one of the commercial real-estate agencies. A second question. Does anyone have a suggestion about the best way to procure a visa invitation for this sort of research trip? I suppose one could go through the normal commercial agencies, but suspect there may be a more scholarly/cheaper route to getting an invitation. Many thanks for any suggestions/leads. Please reply off-list to ihelfant at mail.colgate.edu. Ian Helfant Associate Professor of Russian 219c Lawrence Hall Colgate University Hamilton, NY 13346 315-228-7721 (w) 315-824-9185 (h) 315-228-7176 (fax) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU Tue Apr 18 12:25:10 2006 From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:25:10 -0400 Subject: PUBLIC, not "private" response to Mss. Beljakova and Vynarska In-Reply-To: <20060418024243.83114.qmail@web30811.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ms Beljakova and Ms Vynarska, You are both entitled to your own opinions. You are not, however, entitled to flood this list with unsupported statements about literature and society, dismiss all posts and evidence to the contrary, and resort to increasingly histrionic and offensive litanies. This is NOT a chat room. And yes, Professor Daniel Rancour-Lafferierre can be provocative and abrasive and pompous, and many people on this list have argued with him. Only: we have tried to keep our arguments on point and discuss the text and its context. And yes, DRL has a nasty little habit of quoting private correspondence publicly. His bad. But you, Ms. Beljakova, sent your nasty little private comments out to the list, and you, Ms. Vynarska, no matter how much you protest or how many languages you know or how often claim you're joking or that it's just like being blonde, you have made some nasty homophobic statements. Between the two of you, I have had to read about twenty of these pieces -- which masquerade as literary discussion but actually say nothing about the text -- without responding. Now, I will respond, as one of those stupid little professors who are > like little scared rabbits sitting in the > headlights of a car. YES IT IS a problem to impose 20-21st century Western constructs on earlier and other cultures. On that we are all agreed. But I disagree, publicly and with plenty of evidence from other posts, that homosexuality is in fact a new phenomenon or a purely political construct being imposed on poor helpless nineteenth century Russian literature. But it doesn't matter how many people have made valid posts on this topic, because that isn't really the point, is it, Ms. Beljakova? Your "private" correspondence, which you yourself sent out to the whole list, makes it very clear that your animosity is personal and has nothing to do with literary analysis. Your official argument, as far as I understood it -- it kept changing -- was that before the twentieth century homosexuality didn't exist (it did), or if it did it wasn't "in your face" (do you know this, and so what?), or people were not aware of it (they were), because you and others were not aware of it (personal experience is never a substitute for statistics or research), or Pushkin didn't know about it (he did), or Pushkin would not make his Onegin bisexual/gay (well ... that was the literary discussion we were trying to have), and at any rate Tatiana wouldn't know about homosexuality (it was suggested only that she might have "sensed" some sexual oddity about Onegin). In the parentheses are the public posts people made to counter your arguments, all of which you ignored. Instead we were treated to irrelevant arguments?/analogies?/what? about modern Zimbabwe and Queen Victoria ... As for Tatiana, >and Tatyana, no mater what, was a simple provincial girl .... who, according to the actual text of EO, read a great deal of literature that includes rape (Clarissa) and women's rights (Mme de Stael) and other things that simple provincial girls didn't necessarily know about formally. But you've ignored that already. Ms. Vynarska, you regale us with long "humorous" protestations about how you are not prejudiced and so qualified and various ridiculous suggestions about what these silly American academics are going to do next. Nevertheless, your comments ARE homophobic, not because you disagree with DRL's position on Onegin's bisexuality --a lot of people do -- but because, unlike those people, you have nothing to say about the text itself, just a lot of gratuitous stuff about homosexuality. You claim homosexuality is merely a condition, like being blonde, and yet you continually compare it to diabetes, a disease. But no, we are not being homophobic ... > ............................As to whether homosexuality is a medical >condition (or congenital disease) or not I can only add that this is >what it is still considered to be among regular inhabitants in my >native Ukraine, as far as I know, regardless of whether smb likes it >or not. I hope you are not up to organizing a sexual revolution in >that country. > Besides, I have a long and very challenging career behind my back, >working as an in-house translator for three research institutes of >medical profile as well. I am not commenting, I am just reporting. >Homosexuality was a permanently discussed topic in The Lancet. I >assure you that The Lancet is not smth like Cosmopolitan or Playboy. What are "regular" inhabitants? Undoubtedly many people around the world believe homosexuality is a disease, so what? Most people in the 1400s believed the world was flat. Many people around the world do not know that Ukraine exists, does that mean it doesn't? The majority of the medical establishment has long discarded the canard that homosexuality is pathological. I'll have to check with The Lancet, since you imply they are still on board. Your earlier post that golubaia kul'ture was "implanted" (= unnatural and alien) into Russia after perestroika and was "rude" and "aggressive" is staggering. First of all golubaia kul'tura was always around, plenty of actual evidence was offered. And societal awareness of sexual ambiguities does not proceed in a linear chronological fashion. Yes, according to pedestrian Soviet morality homosexuality didn't exist, and yet it was quite evident in the Silver age, long before perestroika, but also long before as well. Your comments about the purported "rude" "aggressive" nature of gay culture and the reference to a "propaganda circus" is the classic discourse of bigotry. For that matter, everything you don't like is dismissed as "aggressive." I won't even dignify the part about protecting the children from these nasty literary deviations. This kind of rhetoric has been thrown at Blacks who dared to expect fair voting and housing rights ("uppity" coloreds), and, of course, at Jews, at feminists etc. It is nothing less and nothing more than a way to insult people and doesn't belong on this list, whether or not you package it as a discussion of literature. You are entitled to be whatever you want to be. And you can keep inundating this list claiming you're not homophobic, but your comments are, were and continue to be. As far as I'm concerned, both of you: your remarks are mostly gratuitous, your arguments ignore all inconvenient opposing evidence, your protestations are disingenuous, your tone is snarky, and your comments have precious little to do with your official literary pretext. They just fly in the face of tolerance and decency. Just my opinion. After all, I've read yours over and over again. -FR Francoise Rosset Russian and Russian Studies Interim Chair, Women's Studies Wheaton College Norton, Massachusetts 02766 Office: (508) 285-3696 FAX: (508) 286-3640 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From condee at PITT.EDU Tue Apr 18 13:45:30 2006 From: condee at PITT.EDU (Condee) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:45:30 -0400 Subject: away from Onegin; on to "vicarious" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I think it would be worthwhile if contributors to the list might give consideration to moving on to the rich trove of other commonly held intellectual interests. This topic is, of course, vital and inexhaustible (and no one should be silenced ever in the history of humankind), but we could return to it even more refreshed than we now are if we took a break and argued about something else. I'll start (and perhaps someone else could contribute a different topic as well): am I correct that there is no Russian equivalent for "vicarious"? "Kosvennyi" is not really an equivalent, but I do not see another easy alternative. Any answer (on any topic other than Onegin) would be welcome. Respectfully, Nancy Condee Prof. Nancy Condee, Director Graduate Program for Cultural Studies 2206 Posvar Hall University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 15260 412-624-7232 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Francoise Rosset Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 8:25 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] PUBLIC, not "private" response to Mss. Beljakova and Vynarska Ms Beljakova and Ms Vynarska, You are both entitled to your own opinions. You are not, however, entitled to flood this list with unsupported statements about literature and society, dismiss all posts and evidence to the contrary, and resort to increasingly histrionic and offensive litanies. This is NOT a chat room. And yes, Professor Daniel Rancour-Lafferierre can be provocative and abrasive and pompous, and many people on this list have argued with him. Only: we have tried to keep our arguments on point and discuss the text and its context. And yes, DRL has a nasty little habit of quoting private correspondence publicly. His bad. But you, Ms. Beljakova, sent your nasty little private comments out to the list, and you, Ms. Vynarska, no matter how much you protest or how many languages you know or how often claim you're joking or that it's just like being blonde, you have made some nasty homophobic statements. Between the two of you, I have had to read about twenty of these pieces -- which masquerade as literary discussion but actually say nothing about the text -- without responding. Now, I will respond, as one of those stupid little professors who are > like little scared rabbits sitting in the > headlights of a car. YES IT IS a problem to impose 20-21st century Western constructs on earlier and other cultures. On that we are all agreed. But I disagree, publicly and with plenty of evidence from other posts, that homosexuality is in fact a new phenomenon or a purely political construct being imposed on poor helpless nineteenth century Russian literature. But it doesn't matter how many people have made valid posts on this topic, because that isn't really the point, is it, Ms. Beljakova? Your "private" correspondence, which you yourself sent out to the whole list, makes it very clear that your animosity is personal and has nothing to do with literary analysis. Your official argument, as far as I understood it -- it kept changing -- was that before the twentieth century homosexuality didn't exist (it did), or if it did it wasn't "in your face" (do you know this, and so what?), or people were not aware of it (they were), because you and others were not aware of it (personal experience is never a substitute for statistics or research), or Pushkin didn't know about it (he did), or Pushkin would not make his Onegin bisexual/gay (well ... that was the literary discussion we were trying to have), and at any rate Tatiana wouldn't know about homosexuality (it was suggested only that she might have "sensed" some sexual oddity about Onegin). In the parentheses are the public posts people made to counter your arguments, all of which you ignored. Instead we were treated to irrelevant arguments?/analogies?/what? about modern Zimbabwe and Queen Victoria ... As for Tatiana, >and Tatyana, no mater what, was a simple provincial girl .... who, according to the actual text of EO, read a great deal of literature that includes rape (Clarissa) and women's rights (Mme de Stael) and other things that simple provincial girls didn't necessarily know about formally. But you've ignored that already. Ms. Vynarska, you regale us with long "humorous" protestations about how you are not prejudiced and so qualified and various ridiculous suggestions about what these silly American academics are going to do next. Nevertheless, your comments ARE homophobic, not because you disagree with DRL's position on Onegin's bisexuality --a lot of people do -- but because, unlike those people, you have nothing to say about the text itself, just a lot of gratuitous stuff about homosexuality. You claim homosexuality is merely a condition, like being blonde, and yet you continually compare it to diabetes, a disease. But no, we are not being homophobic ... > ............................As to whether homosexuality is a medical >condition (or congenital disease) or not I can only add that this is >what it is still considered to be among regular inhabitants in my >native Ukraine, as far as I know, regardless of whether smb likes it >or not. I hope you are not up to organizing a sexual revolution in >that country. > Besides, I have a long and very challenging career behind my back, >working as an in-house translator for three research institutes of >medical profile as well. I am not commenting, I am just reporting. >Homosexuality was a permanently discussed topic in The Lancet. I >assure you that The Lancet is not smth like Cosmopolitan or Playboy. What are "regular" inhabitants? Undoubtedly many people around the world believe homosexuality is a disease, so what? Most people in the 1400s believed the world was flat. Many people around the world do not know that Ukraine exists, does that mean it doesn't? The majority of the medical establishment has long discarded the canard that homosexuality is pathological. I'll have to check with The Lancet, since you imply they are still on board. Your earlier post that golubaia kul'ture was "implanted" (= unnatural and alien) into Russia after perestroika and was "rude" and "aggressive" is staggering. First of all golubaia kul'tura was always around, plenty of actual evidence was offered. And societal awareness of sexual ambiguities does not proceed in a linear chronological fashion. Yes, according to pedestrian Soviet morality homosexuality didn't exist, and yet it was quite evident in the Silver age, long before perestroika, but also long before as well. Your comments about the purported "rude" "aggressive" nature of gay culture and the reference to a "propaganda circus" is the classic discourse of bigotry. For that matter, everything you don't like is dismissed as "aggressive." I won't even dignify the part about protecting the children from these nasty literary deviations. This kind of rhetoric has been thrown at Blacks who dared to expect fair voting and housing rights ("uppity" coloreds), and, of course, at Jews, at feminists etc. It is nothing less and nothing more than a way to insult people and doesn't belong on this list, whether or not you package it as a discussion of literature. You are entitled to be whatever you want to be. And you can keep inundating this list claiming you're not homophobic, but your comments are, were and continue to be. As far as I'm concerned, both of you: your remarks are mostly gratuitous, your arguments ignore all inconvenient opposing evidence, your protestations are disingenuous, your tone is snarky, and your comments have precious little to do with your official literary pretext. They just fly in the face of tolerance and decency. Just my opinion. After all, I've read yours over and over again. -FR Francoise Rosset Russian and Russian Studies Interim Chair, Women's Studies Wheaton College Norton, Massachusetts 02766 Office: (508) 285-3696 FAX: (508) 286-3640 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Tue Apr 18 13:55:11 2006 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 14:55:11 +0100 Subject: away from Onegin; on to "vicarious" and to CARD GAMES In-Reply-To: <022501c662ee$5ef08f80$6500a8c0@modernity> Message-ID: Dear all, > I think it would be worthwhile if contributors to the list might give > consideration to moving on to the rich trove of other commonly held > intellectual interests. This topic is, of course, vital and inexhaustible (and no one should be > silenced ever in the history of humankind), but we could return to it even > more refreshed than we now are if we took a break and argued about something > else. I second Professor Condee’s wise proposal and will take the opportunity to repeat my own recent small and, I hope, easily exhaustible question about the card game called ‘podkidnoy durak’: This card game figures at least twice in Vasily Grossman’s last rasskazy. A sentence in the story ‘V Kislovodske’ begins, Легкораненые играли в подкидного дурака, крутили любовь с пожилыми сестрами.... (Legkoranenye igrali v podkidnogo duraka, krutili lyubov’ s pozhilymi sestrami...) Any suggestions as to how I should translate this? The game is not going to be mentioned again in this particular story. Thanks in advance — and best wishes, Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewb2 at cornell.edu Tue Apr 18 14:23:53 2006 From: ewb2 at cornell.edu (E Wayles Browne) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:23:53 -0400 Subject: on to "vicarious" In-Reply-To: <022501c662ee$5ef08f80$6500a8c0@modernity> Message-ID: Baudouin de Courtenay once wrote "zaochnyj" for something you do at a distance rather than in direct contact with reality. Can we have a bit of context? -- Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics Department of Linguistics Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu >am I correct that there is no Russian equivalent for "vicarious"? > "Kosvennyi" is not really an equivalent, but I do not see another easy > alternative. Any answer (on any topic other than Onegin) would be > welcome. > > Respectfully, > Nancy Condee > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Philippe.FRISON at COE.INT Tue Apr 18 14:24:16 2006 From: Philippe.FRISON at COE.INT (FRISON Philippe) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:24:16 +0200 Subject: podkidnoy durak Message-ID: Dear Mr Chandler, Here is a link to a site with this card game: "http://w3.vitebsk.by/games/durak/" And here is a link to an explanation of the rules: http://games.mnogo.ru/durak/ As I am not an English-speaker, I cannot suggest a proper British ot an American equivalent. But the game seems to me slighly more elaborate than the French "Mistigri", or its British "Old maid" card games, but this latter name would bring us back to Onegin's thematic... Philippe -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler Sent: mardi 18 avril 2006 15:55 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] away from Onegin; on to "vicarious" and to CARD GAMES Dear all, > I think it would be worthwhile if contributors to the list might give > consideration to moving on to the rich trove of other commonly held > intellectual interests. This topic is, of course, vital and > inexhaustible (and no one should be > silenced ever in the history of humankind), but we could return to it > even more refreshed than we now are if we took a break and argued > about something else. I second Professor Condee's wise proposal and will take the opportunity to repeat my own recent small and, I hope, easily exhaustible question about the card game called 'podkidnoy durak': This card game figures at least twice in Vasily Grossman's last rasskazy. A sentence in the story 'V Kislovodske' begins, Легкораненые играли в подкидного дурака, крутили любовь с пожилыми сестрами.... (Legkoranenye igrali v podkidnogo duraka, krutili lyubov' s pozhilymi sestrami...) Any suggestions as to how I should translate this? The game is not going to be mentioned again in this particular story. Thanks in advance - and best wishes, Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From condee at PITT.EDU Tue Apr 18 14:32:12 2006 From: condee at PITT.EDU (Condee) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:32:12 -0400 Subject: on to "vicarious" In-Reply-To: <42016.65.110.156.73.1145370233.squirrel@webmail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: << Baudouin de Courtenay once wrote "zaochnyj" for something you do at a distance rather than in direct contact with reality. Can we have a bit of context?>> Well, it is for a piece I am writing for a Russian journal, so it concerns the translation into Russian of the title, which is itself meant to jar the reader: "Vicarious Catastrophe." It has to do with television viewing practices--implicitly, watching a catastrophe on television as a vicarious experience. I appreciate that the simplest solution is to change the title, but other suggestions would be welcome. Prof. Nancy Condee, Director Graduate Program for Cultural Studies 2206 Posvar Hall University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 15260 412-624-7232 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of E Wayles Browne Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:24 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] on to "vicarious" Baudouin de Courtenay once wrote "zaochnyj" for something you do at a distance rather than in direct contact with reality. Can we have a bit of context? -- Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics Department of Linguistics Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu >am I correct that there is no Russian equivalent for "vicarious"? > "Kosvennyi" is not really an equivalent, but I do not see another easy > alternative. Any answer (on any topic other than Onegin) would be > welcome. > > Respectfully, > Nancy Condee > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mp at MIPCO.COM Tue Apr 18 14:50:37 2006 From: mp at MIPCO.COM (mipco) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 09:50:37 -0500 Subject: "BIBLIOTEKA POETA" Message-ID: I finally decided to part with poetry collection I have brought with me from the USSR 30 years ago. It is about 100 volumes of BOLSHAYA SERIA "BIBLIOTEKA POETA" (vtoroye izdaniye) published from late 50s to late 70s. It consists of works by Russian poets from 18 to 20th century. Blue hard cover volumes Izdatelstvo "Sovetskii pisatel" in Moscow. All volumes are with prefaces, commentaries and illustrations. You may get the list by downloading it from http://www.mipco.com/RUSSIAN%20RARE%20BOOKS.doc or I can send it by e-mail. Please write to: Michael Peltsman mpeltsman at usinternet.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ANTHONY.QUALIN at TTU.EDU Tue Apr 18 15:15:54 2006 From: ANTHONY.QUALIN at TTU.EDU (Qualin, Anthony) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:15:54 -0500 Subject: away from Onegin; on to "vicarious" and to CARD GAMES Message-ID: On podkidnoi durak: I am not sure that the game has an equivalent in the English speaking world. Here is a page that describes it in detail: http://www.pagat.com/beating/durak.html. I'm afraid, however, that this will not help with your translation problem. You might have to substitute a game that is popular, simple, and familiar to all. You will, of course, lose the Russianness of the game if you do so, but if you just call it "fool" or even "durak" the connotations will be lost on the Anglophone reader. Good luck. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emilka at MAC.COM Tue Apr 18 15:26:26 2006 From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:26:26 -0700 Subject: podkidnoy durak In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Mr. Chandler, The term "pokidnoy durak" was new to me, but I have played a lot of just "durak," "perevodnoi durak," and have heard of the somewhat libelously named "chukchansky durak " -- the Russian Wikipedia site refers to this variant as "Francuski Durak." Having read the website description of "pokidnoy durak" it looks as if it is just plain ol' "durak" as I played it with friends as a college student. Unfortunately, I can think of no easy English equivalent to this game. I would be very curious to know if anyone else knows of perhaps an old and forgotten card game that Austen's folk may have played that resembles it, but my guess would be that a European card game (ie. non-Anglo) may be a closer cousin. Things that I can say: This is not a trick-taking game (so Bridge, Hearts, Spades, Whist, etc. are not good translations); neither is it a game like Rummy where you try to collect cards, and it is not Cribbage. It is not a betting game (well, I can't think how one might bet in "durak") so Poker won't help. Old Maid (unless Old Maid once had different rules) is not close because that involves grabbing cards from your opponents' hands; and Go Fish is not anywhere close. The closest game I can think of is -- and this is a VERY distant cousinship -- is Crazy Eights since the goal for both is to get rid of cards and to "cover" the last card played with a card of the same number or suit (durak allows up to six to cover and in Crazy 8's you draw from the deck if you can't play rather than picking up the stack of played cards, and there are a few other major differences). Unfortunately, I imagine that Crazy 8's would probably would sound out of place in your context. Why not just skip the issue and say that "the lightly wounded spent their time playing cards and flirting with the middle-aged nurses." You say that this does not come up again in the story, so the exact nature of the card game is not of great relevance. That would be my suggestion at any rate. Regards, Emily Saunders On Apr 18, 2006, at 7:24 AM, FRISON Philippe wrote: > Dear Mr Chandler, > > Here is a link to a site with this card game: > "http://w3.vitebsk.by/games/durak/" > > And here is a link to an explanation of the rules: > > http://games.mnogo.ru/durak/ > > As I am not an English-speaker, I cannot suggest a proper British ot > an American equivalent. > > But the game seems to me slighly more elaborate than the French > "Mistigri", or its British "Old maid" card games, > but this latter name would bring us back to Onegin's thematic... > > Philippe > > -----Original Message----- > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler > Sent: mardi 18 avril 2006 15:55 > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] away from Onegin; on to "vicarious" and to > CARD GAMES > > > Dear all, > >> I think it would be worthwhile if contributors to the list might give >> consideration to moving on to the rich trove of other commonly held >> intellectual interests. This topic is, of course, vital and >> inexhaustible > (and no one should be >> silenced ever in the history of humankind), but we could return to it >> even more refreshed than we now are if we took a break and argued >> about something else. > > I second Professor Condee's wise proposal and will take the > opportunity to repeat my own recent small and, I hope, easily > exhaustible question about the card game called 'podkidnoy durak': > > This card game figures at least twice in Vasily Grossman's last > rasskazy. A sentence in the story 'V Kislovodske' begins, > Легкораненые играли в подкидного дурака, крутили любовь с пожилыми > сестрами.... (Legkoranenye igrali v podkidnogo duraka, krutili > lyubov' s pozhilymi sestrami...) > > Any suggestions as to how I should translate this? The game is not > going to be mentioned again in this particular story. > > Thanks in advance - and best wishes, > > Robert > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From khrysostom at YAHOO.COM Tue Apr 18 15:31:29 2006 From: khrysostom at YAHOO.COM (DBH) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 08:31:29 -0700 Subject: Two Terms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Can anyone propose functional equivalents in Russian for the terms "cat fight" and/or "pissing match?" Variants for various stylistic registers would be interesting. Regards JW Narins --- mipco wrote: > I finally decided to part with poetry collection I > have brought with > me from the USSR 30 years ago. It is about 100 > volumes of BOLSHAYA > SERIA "BIBLIOTEKA POETA" (vtoroye izdaniye) > published from late 50s > to late 70s. It consists of works by Russian poets > from 18 to 20th > century. Blue hard cover volumes Izdatelstvo > "Sovetskii pisatel" in > Moscow. All volumes are with prefaces, commentaries > and illustrations. > You may get the list by downloading it from > http://www.mipco.com/RUSSIAN%20RARE%20BOOKS.doc or I > can send it by > e-mail. > > Please write to: > Michael Peltsman > mpeltsman at usinternet.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Tue Apr 18 15:34:48 2006 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:34:48 +0100 Subject: podkidnoy durak In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Emily Saunders and Philippe Frison and all, > Why not just skip the issue and say that "the lightly wounded spent > their time playing cards and flirting with the middle-aged nurses." > You say that this does not come up again in the story, so the exact > nature of the card game is not of great relevance. That would be my > suggestion at any rate. Yes, I think you are right, Emily. I was just hoping that there might possibly be a precise equivalent I did not know of. Thanks, Robert > Dear Mr. Chandler, > > The term "pokidnoy durak" was new to me, but I have played a lot of > just "durak," "perevodnoi durak," and have heard of the somewhat > libelously named "chukchansky durak " -- the Russian Wikipedia site > refers to this variant as "Francuski Durak." Having read the website > description of "pokidnoy durak" it looks as if it is just plain ol' > "durak" as I played it with friends as a college student. > > Unfortunately, I can think of no easy English equivalent to this game. > I would be very curious to know if anyone else knows of perhaps an old > and forgotten card game that Austen's folk may have played that > resembles it, but my guess would be that a European card game (ie. > non-Anglo) may be a closer cousin. > > Things that I can say: This is not a trick-taking game (so Bridge, > Hearts, Spades, Whist, etc. are not good translations); neither is it a > game like Rummy where you try to collect cards, and it is not Cribbage. > It is not a betting game (well, I can't think how one might bet in > "durak") so Poker won't help. Old Maid (unless Old Maid once had > different rules) is not close because that involves grabbing cards from > your opponents' hands; and Go Fish is not anywhere close. The closest > game I can think of is -- and this is a VERY distant cousinship -- is > Crazy Eights since the goal for both is to get rid of cards and to > "cover" the last card played with a card of the same number or suit > (durak allows up to six to cover and in Crazy 8's you draw from the > deck if you can't play rather than picking up the stack of played > cards, and there are a few other major differences). Unfortunately, I > imagine that Crazy 8's would probably would sound out of place in your > context. > > Why not just skip the issue and say that "the lightly wounded spent > their time playing cards and flirting with the middle-aged nurses." > You say that this does not come up again in the story, so the exact > nature of the card game is not of great relevance. That would be my > suggestion at any rate. > > Regards, > > Emily Saunders ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Tue Apr 18 15:35:13 2006 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:35:13 -0400 Subject: on to "vicarious" In-Reply-To: <024701c662f4$e5281770$6500a8c0@modernity> Message-ID: Depends on the context. I am not that sure about the catastrophe, but in some context "oposredovannyj" might fit. > >Well, it is for a piece I am writing for a Russian journal, so it concerns >the translation into Russian of the title, which is itself meant to jar the >reader: "Vicarious Catastrophe." It has to do with television viewing >practices--implicitly, watching a catastrophe on television as a vicarious >experience. __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Tue Apr 18 15:52:52 2006 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 11:52:52 -0400 Subject: on to "vicarious" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I thought about the same term "oposredovannyj" but it seems that in this context Kenneth Katzner's dictionary has a better solution. It gives "chuzhoj" as the translation of "vicarious." Then "Vicarious Catastrophe" becomes "Chuzhaja avarija." Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Alina Israeli wrote: > Depends on the context. I am not that sure about the catastrophe, but in > some context "oposredovannyj" might fit. > > > > >Well, it is for a piece I am writing for a Russian journal, so it concerns > >the translation into Russian of the title, which is itself meant to jar the > >reader: "Vicarious Catastrophe." It has to do with television viewing > >practices--implicitly, watching a catastrophe on television as a vicarious > >experience. > > __________________________ > Alina Israeli > LFS, American University > 4400 Mass. Ave., NW > Washington, DC 20016 > > phone: (202) 885-2387 > fax: (202) 885-1076 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From stuart.goldberg at MODLANGS.GATECH.EDU Tue Apr 18 16:05:46 2006 From: stuart.goldberg at MODLANGS.GATECH.EDU (Stuart Goldberg) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:05:46 -0400 Subject: seeking Petersburg apartment for June 06 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, Ian! I am going to be in Petersburg for the first few days of June and again during the last week. It would be great to meet up! Are you coming alone or with family? All the best, Stuart Quoting Ian Helfant : > Hello, all -- I'm looking for a centrally located apartment in Petersburg > for the month of June. I'll be doing research primarily at the National > Library with some trips as well to the Academy of Sciences Library and > Pushkinskii Dom. I'll be looking through mid to late 19th-century hunting > journals in pursuit of an ecocritical project on hunting and the rise of > conservationism in pre-revolutionary Russia. I'd appreciate any leads, as > I'd prefer to avoid going through one of the commercial real-estate > agencies. > > A second question. Does anyone have a suggestion about the best way to > procure a visa invitation for this sort of research trip? I suppose one > could go through the normal commercial agencies, but suspect there may be > a more scholarly/cheaper route to getting an invitation. Many thanks for > any suggestions/leads. > > Please reply off-list to ihelfant at mail.colgate.edu. Ian Helfant Associate > Professor of Russian 219c Lawrence Hall Colgate University Hamilton, NY > 13346 315-228-7721 (w) 315-824-9185 (h) 315-228-7176 (fax) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From atacama at global.co.za Tue Apr 18 16:30:16 2006 From: atacama at global.co.za (atacama at global.co.za) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:30:16 -0400 Subject: podkidnoy durak Message-ID: Dear Robert Chandler, I understand it in the context that the wounded were playing *children's card games* ...etc.... as opposed to "grown-up card games" - In other words "simple card games" ( eg draughts versus chess). Children know this game as 'durache:k' which is the entry-level card game in childhood, and it is the same as "podkidnoi durache:k". It implies enjoying the simple things in life, as opposed to being a habitue of Onegin's powdered salons. This is the 'sense' that I would give if translating. And heart-felt apologies to everyone I might have offended, when pressing too hastily the "Send" button. Regards, Vera Beljakova Original Message: ----------------- From: Robert Chandler kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:34:48 +0100 To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] podkidnoy durak Dear Emily Saunders and Philippe Frison and all, > Why not just skip the issue and say that "the lightly wounded spent > their time playing cards and flirting with the middle-aged nurses." > You say that this does not come up again in the story, so the exact > nature of the card game is not of great relevance. That would be my > suggestion at any rate. Yes, I think you are right, Emily. I was just hoping that there might possibly be a precise equivalent I did not know of. Thanks, Robert > Dear Mr. Chandler, > > The term "pokidnoy durak" was new to me, but I have played a lot of > just "durak," "perevodnoi durak," and have heard of the somewhat > libelously named "chukchansky durak " -- the Russian Wikipedia site > refers to this variant as "Francuski Durak." Having read the website > description of "pokidnoy durak" it looks as if it is just plain ol' > "durak" as I played it with friends as a college student. > > Unfortunately, I can think of no easy English equivalent to this game. > I would be very curious to know if anyone else knows of perhaps an old > and forgotten card game that Austen's folk may have played that > resembles it, but my guess would be that a European card game (ie. > non-Anglo) may be a closer cousin. > > Things that I can say: This is not a trick-taking game (so Bridge, > Hearts, Spades, Whist, etc. are not good translations); neither is it a > game like Rummy where you try to collect cards, and it is not Cribbage. > It is not a betting game (well, I can't think how one might bet in > "durak") so Poker won't help. Old Maid (unless Old Maid once had > different rules) is not close because that involves grabbing cards from > your opponents' hands; and Go Fish is not anywhere close. The closest > game I can think of is -- and this is a VERY distant cousinship -- is > Crazy Eights since the goal for both is to get rid of cards and to > "cover" the last card played with a card of the same number or suit > (durak allows up to six to cover and in Crazy 8's you draw from the > deck if you can't play rather than picking up the stack of played > cards, and there are a few other major differences). Unfortunately, I > imagine that Crazy 8's would probably would sound out of place in your > context. > > Why not just skip the issue and say that "the lightly wounded spent > their time playing cards and flirting with the middle-aged nurses." > You say that this does not come up again in the story, so the exact > nature of the card game is not of great relevance. That would be my > suggestion at any rate. > > Regards, > > Emily Saunders ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From stuart.goldberg at MODLANGS.GATECH.EDU Tue Apr 18 16:32:13 2006 From: stuart.goldberg at MODLANGS.GATECH.EDU (Stuart Goldberg) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:32:13 -0400 Subject: Apologies -- Re: [SEELANGS] seeking Petersburg apartment for June 06 In-Reply-To: <1145376346.44450e5a14f5f@webmail.mail.gatech.edu> Message-ID: My apologies for sending a personal message to the list. Stuart Goldberg Quoting Stuart Goldberg : > Hi, Ian! > > I am going to be in Petersburg for the first few days of June and again > during > the last week. It would be great to meet up! Are you coming alone or with > family? > > All the best, > Stuart > > > Quoting Ian Helfant : > > > Hello, all -- I'm looking for a centrally located apartment in Petersburg > > for the month of June. I'll be doing research primarily at the National > > Library with some trips as well to the Academy of Sciences Library and > > Pushkinskii Dom. I'll be looking through mid to late 19th-century hunting > > journals in pursuit of an ecocritical project on hunting and the rise of > > conservationism in pre-revolutionary Russia. I'd appreciate any leads, as > > I'd prefer to avoid going through one of the commercial real-estate > > agencies. > > > > A second question. Does anyone have a suggestion about the best way to > > procure a visa invitation for this sort of research trip? I suppose one > > could go through the normal commercial agencies, but suspect there may be > > a more scholarly/cheaper route to getting an invitation. Many thanks for > > any suggestions/leads. > > > > Please reply off-list to ihelfant at mail.colgate.edu. Ian Helfant Associate > > Professor of Russian 219c Lawrence Hall Colgate University Hamilton, NY > > 13346 315-228-7721 (w) 315-824-9185 (h) 315-228-7176 (fax) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > -- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Tue Apr 18 17:14:48 2006 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:14:48 -0400 Subject: on to "vicarious" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I thought about the same term "oposredovannyj" but it seems that in this >context Kenneth Katzner's dictionary has a better solution. It gives >"chuzhoj" as the translation of "vicarious." Then "Vicarious Catastrophe" >becomes "Chuzhaja avarija." I'd like to disagree with Katzner. "chuzhoj" is opposed to "svoj" in Russian: Chuzhaja nosha ne tjanet, Svoja rubashka blizhe k telu. Someone else's has no effect on you. Vicarious, on the other hand, is what you experience second-hand, so to speak. One may get vicarious pleasure from gift giving, for ex. Cambridge dictionary gives "vicarious thrill from watching motor racing". Granted, vacarious is more common in English, but so are many other psychological terms. While it's possible to find "opsredovannoe udovol'stvie", it's not so easy with catastrophes, because in this case Russians "sochuvstvujut" or "soperezhivajut". __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From condee at PITT.EDU Tue Apr 18 17:20:21 2006 From: condee at PITT.EDU (Condee) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:20:21 -0400 Subject: on to "vicarious" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I agree, Alina, and would only add that the English is intentionally non-normative as well, and therein lies the double burden. Thanks to all who submitted ideas, both posted and direct to me. Prof. Nancy Condee, Director Graduate Program for Cultural Studies 2206 Posvar Hall University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 15260 412-624-7232 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Alina Israeli Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:15 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] on to "vicarious" >I thought about the same term "oposredovannyj" but it seems that in this >context Kenneth Katzner's dictionary has a better solution. It gives >"chuzhoj" as the translation of "vicarious." Then "Vicarious Catastrophe" >becomes "Chuzhaja avarija." I'd like to disagree with Katzner. "chuzhoj" is opposed to "svoj" in Russian: Chuzhaja nosha ne tjanet, Svoja rubashka blizhe k telu. Someone else's has no effect on you. Vicarious, on the other hand, is what you experience second-hand, so to speak. One may get vicarious pleasure from gift giving, for ex. Cambridge dictionary gives "vicarious thrill from watching motor racing". Granted, vacarious is more common in English, but so are many other psychological terms. While it's possible to find "opsredovannoe udovol'stvie", it's not so easy with catastrophes, because in this case Russians "sochuvstvujut" or "soperezhivajut". __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM Tue Apr 18 17:24:55 2006 From: tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM (Timothy Sergay) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:24:55 -0400 Subject: on to "vicarious": suggested title In-Reply-To: <024701c662f4$e5281770$6500a8c0@modernity> Message-ID: I would think about "Katastrofa na chuzhoi shkure." A semantic complication, I guess, is that ANYTHING, any experience witnessed on television is vicarious for the viewer by definition. But even so, I see your point, and I have the feeling this Russian title should basically convey it. Best wishes, Tim Sergay > > Well, it is for a piece I am writing for a Russian journal, so it > concerns > the translation into Russian of the title, which is itself meant to > jar the > reader: "Vicarious Catastrophe." It has to do with television viewing > practices--implicitly, watching a catastrophe on television as a > vicarious > experience. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From donna.seifer at COMCAST.NET Tue Apr 18 17:36:13 2006 From: donna.seifer at COMCAST.NET (Seifer Donna) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 10:36:13 -0700 Subject: on to "vicarious" In-Reply-To: <02a501c6630c$62b27de0$6500a8c0@modernity> Message-ID: How about "виртуально?" Denezhkina uses "поженились виртуально" в рассказе "Дай мне!" Donna T. Seifer Lewis & Clark College Portland, OR 97219 On 4/18/06 10:20 AM, "Condee" wrote: > I agree, Alina, and would only add that the English is intentionally > non-normative as well, and therein lies the double burden. > > Thanks to all who submitted ideas, both posted and direct to me. > > Prof. Nancy Condee, Director > Graduate Program for Cultural Studies > 2206 Posvar Hall > University of Pittsburgh > Pittsburgh, PA 15260 > 412-624-7232 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Alina Israeli > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:15 PM > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] on to "vicarious" > >> I thought about the same term "oposredovannyj" but it seems that in this >> context Kenneth Katzner's dictionary has a better solution. It gives >> "chuzhoj" as the translation of "vicarious." Then "Vicarious Catastrophe" >> becomes "Chuzhaja avarija." > > I'd like to disagree with Katzner. "chuzhoj" is opposed to "svoj" in > Russian: Chuzhaja nosha ne tjanet, Svoja rubashka blizhe k telu. Someone > else's has no effect on you. Vicarious, on the other hand, is what you > experience second-hand, so to speak. One may get vicarious pleasure from > gift giving, for ex. Cambridge dictionary gives "vicarious thrill from > watching motor racing". Granted, vacarious is more common in English, but > so are many other psychological terms. While it's possible to find > "opsredovannoe udovol'stvie", it's not so easy with catastrophes, because > in this case Russians "sochuvstvujut" or "soperezhivajut". > > __________________________ > Alina Israeli > LFS, American University > 4400 Mass. Ave., NW > Washington, DC 20016 > > phone: (202) 885-2387 > fax: (202) 885-1076 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mitrege at AUBURN.EDU Tue Apr 18 17:45:53 2006 From: mitrege at AUBURN.EDU (George Mitrevski) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 12:45:53 -0500 Subject: "Russia Today" course suggestions Message-ID: Hi folks. I'm looking for suggestions for a course titled "Russia Today". The course is in English. Any suggestions for an anthology of late-Soviet and post-Soviet short stories, films, online resources, and a textbook that covers the gamut of life in Russia today? Cordially, George. Foreign Languages tel. 334-844-6376 6030 Haley Center fax. 334-844-6378 Auburn University Auburn, AL 36849 home: www.auburn.edu/~mitrege ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lzaharkov at WITTENBERG.EDU Tue Apr 18 17:59:41 2006 From: lzaharkov at WITTENBERG.EDU (Lila W. Zaharkov) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 13:59:41 -0400 Subject: "Russia Today" course suggestions In-Reply-To: <4444DF81020000AF000172FB@groupwise1.duc.auburn.edu> Message-ID: At 01:45 PM 04/18/2006, you wrote: >Hi folks. > >I'm looking for suggestions for a course titled "Russia Today". The >course is in English. Any suggestions for an anthology of late-Soviet >and post-Soviet short stories, films, online resources, and a textbook >that covers the gamut of life in Russia today? > >Cordially, > >George. > >Foreign Languages tel. 334-844-6376 >6030 Haley Center fax. 334-844-6378 >Auburn University >Auburn, AL 36849 >home: www.auburn.edu/~mitrege > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- If you get ANY, please post them for all. I'm also thinking of such a course. Lila z. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Tue Apr 18 20:53:53 2006 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:53:53 -0400 Subject: on to "vicarious" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: While being semantically in complete agreement with Alina Israeli regarding both Katzner and the translation of "vicarious," I think that "oposredovannyj" cannot be used in the given context of catastrophe. "Virtual'nyj" might work. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Seifer Donna wrote: > How about "����������?" Denezhkina uses "���������� ����������" � �������� > "��� ���!" > > Donna T. Seifer > Lewis & Clark College > Portland, OR 97219 > > On 4/18/06 10:20 AM, "Condee" wrote: > > > I agree, Alina, and would only add that the English is intentionally > > non-normative as well, and therein lies the double burden. > > > > Thanks to all who submitted ideas, both posted and direct to me. > > > > Prof. Nancy Condee, Director > > Graduate Program for Cultural Studies > > 2206 Posvar Hall > > University of Pittsburgh > > Pittsburgh, PA 15260 > > 412-624-7232 > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Alina Israeli > > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:15 PM > > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] on to "vicarious" > > > >> I thought about the same term "oposredovannyj" but it seems that in this > >> context Kenneth Katzner's dictionary has a better solution. It gives > >> "chuzhoj" as the translation of "vicarious." Then "Vicarious Catastrophe" > >> becomes "Chuzhaja avarija." > > > > I'd like to disagree with Katzner. "chuzhoj" is opposed to "svoj" in > > Russian: Chuzhaja nosha ne tjanet, Svoja rubashka blizhe k telu. Someone > > else's has no effect on you. Vicarious, on the other hand, is what you > > experience second-hand, so to speak. One may get vicarious pleasure from > > gift giving, for ex. Cambridge dictionary gives "vicarious thrill from > > watching motor racing". Granted, vacarious is more common in English, but > > so are many other psychological terms. While it's possible to find > > "opsredovannoe udovol'stvie", it's not so easy with catastrophes, because > > in this case Russians "sochuvstvujut" or "soperezhivajut". > > > > __________________________ > > Alina Israeli > > LFS, American University > > 4400 Mass. Ave., NW > > Washington, DC 20016 > > > > phone: (202) 885-2387 > > fax: (202) 885-1076 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewbrynolfson at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU Tue Apr 18 21:28:35 2006 From: ewbrynolfson at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU (Erik McDonald) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:28:35 -0400 Subject: podkidnoy durak In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There is a card game played in the US that is somewhat similar to "podkidnoi durak," though it isn't the same. Its unliterary name - I know it as "Asshole" - and its social status as a drinking game rather than a children's game might make it unsuitable for the Grossman translation. The rules can be found at http://www.pagat.com/climbing/asshole.html, which gives some less offensive names for it as well. That site puts it in a different classification than Durak (the same site's Durak rules, as Anthony Qualin wrote, can be found at http://www.pagat.com/beating/durak.html), but at least it isn't a trick-taking game. As in Durak, the last person with cards left loses and becomes the name of the game. Erik McDonald ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM Tue Apr 18 22:25:37 2006 From: tsergay at COLUMBUS.RR.COM (Timothy D. Sergay) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:25:37 -0400 Subject: on to "vicarious": ambiguity of the idea! Message-ID: Dear Prof. Condee and SEELANGERS, Alina writes > I'd like to disagree with Katzner. "chuzhoj" is opposed to "svoj" in > Russian: Chuzhaja nosha ne tjanet, Svoja rubashka blizhe k telu. Someone > else's has no effect on you. Vicarious, on the other hand, is what you > experience second-hand, so to speak. One may get vicarious pleasure from > gift giving, for ex. Cambridge dictionary gives "vicarious thrill from > watching motor racing". Granted, vacarious is more common in English, but > so are many other psychological terms. While it's possible to find > "opsredovannoe udovol'stvie", it's not so easy with catastrophes, because > in this case Russians "sochuvstvujut" or "soperezhivajut". Very interesting problem. Russian evidently has two diametrically opposed poslovitsy: Chuzhaia nosha ne tianet (ne zabotit) and Svoia nosha ne tianet. A kakaia togda tianet? At bottom, "vicarious" basically indicates surrogacy, proxy, delegation, substitution, etc., as in the Pope's being regarded as the earthly "Vicar of Christ" (namestnik Khrista). The Latin root of the words "vicarious," "vicar", and the prefix "vice" as in vice-president is vix, vicis, indicating "change, alteration, bend, weakening," hence the idea of "vicarious" would map to Russian lexicon like "zam-, zamena, zamestitel', zameshchaiushchii, namestnicheskii, upolnomochennyi" and so on. The term "vicarious" gained currency in English describing various kinds of attenuated, "sympathetic" sensation derived from keenly identifying with others ("surrogates") who are experiencing that sensation directly, themselves, at full strength, "v natural'nuiu velichinu." The collocation "vicarious thrill" is a very common instance, and well illustrates the affinity between the term vicarious and the idea of voyeurism. But the term has an ambiguous focus: in some contexts, often where the experience involved is painful and dangerous, the focus is on the invidious safety, comfort ("numbness") and freedom from consequences enjoyed by the subject of vicarious experience, the distant "secret sharer." (I'll call that the "negative focus" with respect to vicarious experience.) It was in that spirit that I suggested translating your title "Vicarious Catastrophe" as "Katastrofa na chuzhoi shkure," and it's in that spirit that I would interpret "Chuzhaia nosha ne tianet" which I might translate as "It's no skin off my nose." But in other contexts, as in voyeurism, and maybe spectator sports like motor racing, it seems the focus of the term "vicarious" is the opposite: it's actually "positive" with respect to the experience, i.e., it indicates not the "numbness" but the "sensation" felt (at attenuated strength, to be sure) by the vicarious experiencer. (From here it's not far to Aristotelian "catharsis.") It could be that the focus of the essay "Vicarious Catastrophe" is likewise "positive" and that the stress is on real compassion felt remotely by viewers of televised castastrophes. If that's the case, then my translation was wrong, and it should be something more like what Alina suggested with the words sochuvstvie and soperezhivanie, maybe closer to "Perezhivanie chuzhoi katastrophy, kak svoei." If you really want your title to be "jarring," I would even consider something a bit paronomastic: "Chuzhaia nosha -- tianet!" Best wishes, Tim Sergay ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Tue Apr 18 22:31:24 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:31:24 -0700 Subject: on to "vicarious" In-Reply-To: <02a501c6630c$62b27de0$6500a8c0@modernity> Message-ID: I would go away from the word catastrophe at all, if it is a title, to avoid all those associations the reader may get if you combine it with "virtualnyj". I would say: "V mire televizionnykh strastej" or "V mire televizionnykh dram", or "V mire televizionnykh tragedij". Sure, if I understood correctly what the article is supposed to be about. Then I would simply give a subtitle, smth like: Chto my chuvstvyem, kogda vidim chuzhoe gore na ekrane, or smth like this. MV Condee wrote: I agree, Alina, and would only add that the English is intentionally non-normative as well, and therein lies the double burden. Thanks to all who submitted ideas, both posted and direct to me. Prof. Nancy Condee, Director Graduate Program for Cultural Studies 2206 Posvar Hall University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 15260 412-624-7232 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Alina Israeli Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:15 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] on to "vicarious" >I thought about the same term "oposredovannyj" but it seems that in this >context Kenneth Katzner's dictionary has a better solution. It gives >"chuzhoj" as the translation of "vicarious." Then "Vicarious Catastrophe" >becomes "Chuzhaja avarija." I'd like to disagree with Katzner. "chuzhoj" is opposed to "svoj" in Russian: Chuzhaja nosha ne tjanet, Svoja rubashka blizhe k telu. Someone else's has no effect on you. Vicarious, on the other hand, is what you experience second-hand, so to speak. One may get vicarious pleasure from gift giving, for ex. Cambridge dictionary gives "vicarious thrill from watching motor racing". Granted, vacarious is more common in English, but so are many other psychological terms. While it's possible to find "opsredovannoe udovol'stvie", it's not so easy with catastrophes, because in this case Russians "sochuvstvujut" or "soperezhivajut". __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Tue Apr 18 22:35:26 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:35:26 -0700 Subject: Two Terms In-Reply-To: <20060418153129.76384.qmail@web54514.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Bab'ja draka" (meaning between each other) (colloq.) As to the second one, I don't know what it means in English. MV DBH wrote: Dear Colleagues, Can anyone propose functional equivalents in Russian for the terms "cat fight" and/or "pissing match?" Variants for various stylistic registers would be interesting. Regards JW Narins --- mipco wrote: > I finally decided to part with poetry collection I > have brought with > me from the USSR 30 years ago. It is about 100 > volumes of BOLSHAYA > SERIA "BIBLIOTEKA POETA" (vtoroye izdaniye) > published from late 50s > to late 70s. It consists of works by Russian poets > from 18 to 20th > century. Blue hard cover volumes Izdatelstvo > "Sovetskii pisatel" in > Moscow. All volumes are with prefaces, commentaries > and illustrations. > You may get the list by downloading it from > http://www.mipco.com/RUSSIAN%20RARE%20BOOKS.doc or I > can send it by > e-mail. > > Please write to: > Michael Peltsman > mpeltsman at usinternet.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From axprok at WM.EDU Tue Apr 18 22:37:52 2006 From: axprok at WM.EDU (Alexander Prokhorov) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:37:52 -0400 Subject: "the moral occult" how to traslate this term into Russian? Message-ID: Dear SEELANGERS, In his monograph _The Melodramatic Imagination: Balzac, Henry James, Melodrama, and the Mode of Excess_, Peter Brooks coins the term "the moral occult" to describe "the domain of operative spiritual values which is both indicated within and masked by the surface reality" (5). Could you please help me with finding an adequate translation for this notion? Here are two suggestions I've received from my colleagues: "nravstvennye zagadki" "moral'noe tainstvo" Sasha Alexander Prokhorov, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Russian Film Studies Faculty College of William and Mary ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:28:35 -0400 >From: Erik McDonald >Subject: [SEELANGS] podkidnoy durak >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > >There is a card game played in the US that is somewhat similar to >"podkidnoi durak," though it isn't the same. Its unliterary name - I know >it as "Asshole" - and its social status as a drinking game rather than a >children's game might make it unsuitable for the Grossman translation. The >rules can be found at http://www.pagat.com/climbing/asshole.html, which >gives some less offensive names for it as well. That site puts it in a >different classification than Durak (the same site's Durak rules, as >Anthony Qualin wrote, can be found at >http://www.pagat.com/beating/durak.html), but at least it isn't a >trick-taking game. As in Durak, the last person with cards left loses and >becomes the name of the game. > >Erik McDonald > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Tue Apr 18 22:45:33 2006 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:45:33 -0400 Subject: Two Terms In-Reply-To: <20060418223526.35293.qmail@web30809.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Pretty much what was going on around here with Onegin's sexuality issue in the last couple of weeks. -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Maryna Vinarska Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:35 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Two Terms "Bab'ja draka" (meaning between each other) (colloq.) As to the second one, I don't know what it means in English. MV DBH wrote: Dear Colleagues, Can anyone propose functional equivalents in Russian for the terms "cat fight" and/or "pissing match?" Variants for various stylistic registers would be interesting. Regards JW Narins --- mipco wrote: > I finally decided to part with poetry collection I > have brought with > me from the USSR 30 years ago. It is about 100 > volumes of BOLSHAYA > SERIA "BIBLIOTEKA POETA" (vtoroye izdaniye) > published from late 50s > to late 70s. It consists of works by Russian poets > from 18 to 20th > century. Blue hard cover volumes Izdatelstvo > "Sovetskii pisatel" in > Moscow. All volumes are with prefaces, commentaries > and illustrations. > You may get the list by downloading it from > http://www.mipco.com/RUSSIAN%20RARE%20BOOKS.doc or I > can send it by > e-mail. > > Please write to: > Michael Peltsman > mpeltsman at usinternet.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU Tue Apr 18 22:53:36 2006 From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:53:36 -0400 Subject: Two Terms In-Reply-To: <002801c66339$cd924a00$d3114047@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: Except that a pissing match traditionally takes place between men. (The usual measure of victory is horizontal range, I might add; whereas in a cat fight the measure is eyes scratched out: ESO, for those who like to read box scores.) Please understand I speak here in terms of traditional usage: descriptively rather than normatively. I have nothing against either men who scratch each other's eyes out or women who urinate for distance. dp -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at listserv.cuny.edu] On Behalf Of Inna Caron Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:46 PM To: SEELANGS at listserv.cuny.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Two Terms Pretty much what was going on around here with Onegin's sexuality issue in the last couple of weeks. -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Maryna Vinarska Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:35 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Two Terms "Bab'ja draka" (meaning between each other) (colloq.) As to the second one, I don't know what it means in English. MV DBH wrote: Dear Colleagues, Can anyone propose functional equivalents in Russian for the terms "cat fight" and/or "pissing match?" Variants for various stylistic registers would be interesting. Regards JW Narins --- mipco wrote: > I finally decided to part with poetry collection I > have brought with > me from the USSR 30 years ago. It is about 100 > volumes of BOLSHAYA > SERIA "BIBLIOTEKA POETA" (vtoroye izdaniye) > published from late 50s > to late 70s. It consists of works by Russian poets > from 18 to 20th > century. Blue hard cover volumes Izdatelstvo > "Sovetskii pisatel" in > Moscow. All volumes are with prefaces, commentaries > and illustrations. > You may get the list by downloading it from > http://www.mipco.com/RUSSIAN%20RARE%20BOOKS.doc or I > can send it by > e-mail. > > Please write to: > Michael Peltsman > mpeltsman at usinternet.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU Tue Apr 18 22:57:27 2006 From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:57:27 -0400 Subject: "the moral occult" how to traslate this term into Russian? In-Reply-To: <20060418183752.CDD79229@m4000.it.wm.edu> Message-ID: Dear Sasha (and list), If we are in fact discussing the 'domain' (rather than occult practice ['okkultizm']; and rather than a single instance ['tainstvo,' 'zagadka'] or a collection of instances ['tainstva,' 'zagadki'], I would suggest 'tainstvennoe' (adjective as noun). (I'm not sure whether 'nravstvennoe' or 'moral'noe' would be better.) It's awkward, but fairly precise. If I were translating more freely, I would be tempted to create a term based around ‘tsennosti,’ e.g., ‘tainstvenno-moral’nye tsennosti,’ which would at least respond less clunkily to the rigors of Russian syntax. I’ll be interested to see what others come up with. This is a rather typical nominal coinage in academic English, and of a kind that as a rule translates better into German than Russian. dp -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Alexander Prokhorov Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:38 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] "the moral occult" how to traslate this term into Russian? Dear SEELANGERS, In his monograph _The Melodramatic Imagination: Balzac, Henry James, Melodrama, and the Mode of Excess_, Peter Brooks coins the term "the moral occult" to describe "the domain of operative spiritual values which is both indicated within and masked by the surface reality" (5). Could you please help me with finding an adequate translation for this notion? Here are two suggestions I've received from my colleagues: "nravstvennye zagadki" "moral'noe tainstvo" Sasha Alexander Prokhorov, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Russian Film Studies Faculty College of William and Mary ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:28:35 -0400 >From: Erik McDonald >Subject: [SEELANGS] podkidnoy durak >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > >There is a card game played in the US that is somewhat similar to >"podkidnoi durak," though it isn't the same. Its unliterary name - I know >it as "Asshole" - and its social status as a drinking game rather than a >children's game might make it unsuitable for the Grossman translation. The >rules can be found at http://www.pagat.com/climbing/asshole.html, which >gives some less offensive names for it as well. That site puts it in a >different classification than Durak (the same site's Durak rules, as >Anthony Qualin wrote, can be found at >http://www.pagat.com/beating/durak.html), but at least it isn't a >trick-taking game. As in Durak, the last person with cards left loses and >becomes the name of the game. > >Erik McDonald > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aboguslawski at ROLLINS.EDU Tue Apr 18 22:55:19 2006 From: aboguslawski at ROLLINS.EDU (Alexander Boguslawski) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 18:55:19 -0400 Subject: "the moral occult" how to traslate this term into Russian? In-Reply-To: <20060418183752.CDD79229@m4000.it.wm.edu> Message-ID: I would go with "nravstvennyj okkul't" because of the existence of "okkul'tnye nauki," an expression often used to translate "the occult." It does sound foreign, but you are translating a text by Peter Brook! Alexander Boguslawski >>> axprok at WM.EDU 4/18/2006 6:37:52 PM >>> Dear SEELANGERS, In his monograph _The Melodramatic Imagination: Balzac, Henry James, Melodrama, and the Mode of Excess_, Peter Brooks coins the term "the moral occult" to describe "the domain of operative spiritual values which is both indicated within and masked by the surface reality" (5). Could you please help me with finding an adequate translation for this notion? Here are two suggestions I've received from my colleagues: "nravstvennye zagadki" "moral'noe tainstvo" Sasha Alexander Prokhorov, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Russian Film Studies Faculty College of William and Mary ---- Original message ---- >Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 17:28:35 -0400 >From: Erik McDonald < ewbrynolfson at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU > >Subject: [SEELANGS] podkidnoy durak >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > >There is a card game played in the US that is somewhat similar to >"podkidnoi durak," though it isn't the same. Its unliterary name - I know >it as "Asshole" - and its social status as a drinking game rather than a >children's game might make it unsuitable for the Grossman translation. The >rules can be found at http://www.pagat.com/climbing/asshole.html , which >gives some less offensive names for it as well. That site puts it in a >different classification than Durak (the same site's Durak rules, as >Anthony Qualin wrote, can be found at > http://www.pagat.com/beating/durak.html ), but at least it isn't a >trick-taking game. As in Durak, the last person with cards left loses and >becomes the name of the game. > >Erik McDonald > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Yevgeny.Slivkin at MONTEREY.ARMY.MIL Tue Apr 18 23:37:37 2006 From: Yevgeny.Slivkin at MONTEREY.ARMY.MIL (Slivkin, Yevgeny) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:37:37 -0700 Subject: Two Terms Message-ID: Hi David (and the List)! I think the best equivalent for "pissing match" is a street expression from the time of my youth - "meriat'sia kh -- mi" Yevgeny Slivkin -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of David Powelstock Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 3:54 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Two Terms Except that a pissing match traditionally takes place between men. (The usual measure of victory is horizontal range, I might add; whereas in a cat fight the measure is eyes scratched out: ESO, for those who like to read box scores.) Please understand I speak here in terms of traditional usage: descriptively rather than normatively. I have nothing against either men who scratch each other's eyes out or women who urinate for distance. dp -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at listserv.cuny.edu] On Behalf Of Inna Caron Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:46 PM To: SEELANGS at listserv.cuny.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Two Terms Pretty much what was going on around here with Onegin's sexuality issue in the last couple of weeks. -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Maryna Vinarska Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:35 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Two Terms "Bab'ja draka" (meaning between each other) (colloq.) As to the second one, I don't know what it means in English. MV DBH wrote: Dear Colleagues, Can anyone propose functional equivalents in Russian for the terms "cat fight" and/or "pissing match?" Variants for various stylistic registers would be interesting. Regards JW Narins --- mipco wrote: > I finally decided to part with poetry collection I have brought with > me from the USSR 30 years ago. It is about 100 volumes of BOLSHAYA > SERIA "BIBLIOTEKA POETA" (vtoroye izdaniye) published from late 50s to > late 70s. It consists of works by Russian poets from 18 to 20th > century. Blue hard cover volumes Izdatelstvo "Sovetskii pisatel" in > Moscow. All volumes are with prefaces, commentaries and illustrations. > You may get the list by downloading it from > http://www.mipco.com/RUSSIAN%20RARE%20BOOKS.doc or I can send it by > e-mail. > > Please write to: > Michael Peltsman > mpeltsman at usinternet.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET Tue Apr 18 23:53:57 2006 From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 16:53:57 -0700 Subject: Two terms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Pissing match, ýòî áàáüÿ äðàêà ìåæäó ìóæ÷èíàìè. (Øó÷ó, íî íå ñîâñåì). >Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 15:35:26 -0700 >From: Maryna Vinarska >Subject: Re: Two Terms > >"Bab'ja draka" (meaning between each other) (colloq.) >As to the second one, I don't know what it means in English. >MV >> >>DBH wrote: Dear Colleagues, >>Can anyone propose functional equivalents in Russian >>for the terms "cat fight" and/or "pissing match?" >>Variants for various stylistic registers would be >>interesting. >> Regards >> JW Narins ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lgoering at CARLETON.EDU Wed Apr 19 01:22:38 2006 From: lgoering at CARLETON.EDU (Laura Goering) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:22:38 -0500 Subject: Placement testing with BYU test Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, I recently posted a query about online testing, and we are now looking into using the test put out by BYU. I would be very interested in hearing from anyone who has used this test what scores you have used as cut-offs for various levels of placement. I have spent some time experimenting with the demo, but I'm not sure how to calibrate the results with our program. Thanks for any advice you can give me (off-line to lgoering at carleton.edu) Many thanks, Laura Goering Carleton College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Philippe.FRISON at COE.INT Wed Apr 19 03:15:29 2006 From: Philippe.FRISON at COE.INT (FRISON Philippe) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 05:15:29 +0200 Subject: RE: [SEELANGS] on to "vicarious" Message-ID: Let me a,other try: what about "katastrofa tchuzhimi glazami ?" Philippe : Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list de la part de Maryna Vinarska Date: mer. 19/04/2006 00:31 À: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Objet : Re: [SEELANGS] on to "vicarious" I would go away from the word catastrophe at all, if it is a title, to avoid all those associations the reader may get if you combine it with "virtualnyj". I would say: "V mire televizionnykh strastej" or "V mire televizionnykh dram", or "V mire televizionnykh tragedij". Sure, if I understood correctly what the article is supposed to be about. Then I would simply give a subtitle, smth like: Chto my chuvstvyem, kogda vidim chuzhoe gore na ekrane, or smth like this. MV Condee wrote: I agree, Alina, and would only add that the English is intentionally non-normative as well, and therein lies the double burden. Thanks to all who submitted ideas, both posted and direct to me. Prof. Nancy Condee, Director Graduate Program for Cultural Studies 2206 Posvar Hall University of Pittsburgh Pittsburgh, PA 15260 412-624-7232 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Alina Israeli Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:15 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] on to "vicarious" >I thought about the same term "oposredovannyj" but it seems that in this >context Kenneth Katzner's dictionary has a better solution. It gives >"chuzhoj" as the translation of "vicarious." Then "Vicarious Catastrophe" >becomes "Chuzhaja avarija." I'd like to disagree with Katzner. "chuzhoj" is opposed to "svoj" in Russian: Chuzhaja nosha ne tjanet, Svoja rubashka blizhe k telu. Someone else's has no effect on you. Vicarious, on the other hand, is what you experience second-hand, so to speak. One may get vicarious pleasure from gift giving, for ex. Cambridge dictionary gives "vicarious thrill from watching motor racing". Granted, vacarious is more common in English, but so are many other psychological terms. While it's possible to find "opsredovannoe udovol'stvie", it's not so easy with catastrophes, because in this case Russians "sochuvstvujut" or "soperezhivajut". __________________________ Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Mass. Ave., NW Washington, DC 20016 phone: (202) 885-2387 fax: (202) 885-1076 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emilka at MAC.COM Wed Apr 19 04:02:06 2006 From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 21:02:06 -0700 Subject: podkidnoy durak In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.2.20060418172610.00a66030@wiscmail.wisc.edu> Message-ID: For what it is worth this game (described as "President" on the website you give) I have actually played in Russia under another name -- Govno, I think. It's a bit like the card game "Bullshit" -- and I apologize for the epithets, but these are the names of the games -- however, the key elements include changing seats at the end of each round and the exchange of cards according to the "social status" obtained during the last hand. I have some uproarious memories of playing Govno with a huge group of friends on a Primorsky beach in the summertime, with us kicking sand all round at the end of each hand as we switched places... The associations I've always had with Durak is that it is a college-student (possibly army recruit), on long train trips, visiting grandparents type of card game. It's perhaps a bit of a working class game, but I would say that it lacks the strong childhood associations that games like Go Fish, Old Maid, and Crazy 8's have for your average American card player. (Erik: Thanks for the www.pagat.com website address -- I was delighted to find rules for tysyacha (1000) there. Memories from college dorm late-night card sessions come flooding back...) Regards, Emily Saunders On Apr 18, 2006, at 2:28 PM, Erik McDonald wrote: > There is a card game played in the US that is somewhat similar to > "podkidnoi durak," though it isn't the same. Its unliterary name - I > know it as "Asshole" - and its social status as a drinking game rather > than a children's game might make it unsuitable for the Grossman > translation. The rules can be found at > http://www.pagat.com/climbing/asshole.html, which gives some less > offensive names for it as well. That site puts it in a different > classification than Durak (the same site's Durak rules, as Anthony > Qualin wrote, can be found at > http://www.pagat.com/beating/durak.html), but at least it isn't a > trick-taking game. As in Durak, the last person with cards left loses > and becomes the name of the game. > > Erik McDonald > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From marinab at STANFORD.EDU Wed Apr 19 03:58:39 2006 From: marinab at STANFORD.EDU (Marina Brodskaya) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:58:39 -0700 Subject: [SEELANGS] on to "vicarious" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: what if you were to combine the verb "perezhivat" with "chuzhaja" beda, avarija, i esli uzh "katastrofa" then specify kakaja imenno -- avtomobil'naja, dorozhnaja, for example. And finally, using the verb "soperezhivat" (as in soboleznovat') may sufficiently imply "chuzhaja." m Quoting FRISON Philippe : > Let me a,other try: > > what about "katastrofa tchuzhimi glazami ?" > > Philippe > > : Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list de la part de > Maryna Vinarska > Date: mer. 19/04/2006 00:31 > À: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Objet : Re: [SEELANGS] on to "vicarious" > > > > I would go away from the word catastrophe at all, if it is a title, to > avoid all those associations the reader may get if you combine it with > "virtualnyj". > I would say: "V mire televizionnykh strastej" or "V mire televizionnykh > dram", or "V mire televizionnykh tragedij". Sure, if I understood > correctly what the article is supposed to be about. Then I would simply > give a subtitle, smth like: Chto my chuvstvyem, kogda vidim chuzhoe gore > na ekrane, or smth like this. > MV > > Condee wrote: I agree, Alina, and would only add that > the English is intentionally > non-normative as well, and therein lies the double burden. > > Thanks to all who submitted ideas, both posted and direct to me. > > Prof. Nancy Condee, Director > Graduate Program for Cultural Studies > 2206 Posvar Hall > University of Pittsburgh > Pittsburgh, PA 15260 > 412-624-7232 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Alina Israeli > Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:15 PM > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] on to "vicarious" > > >I thought about the same term "oposredovannyj" but it seems that in this > >context Kenneth Katzner's dictionary has a better solution. It gives > >"chuzhoj" as the translation of "vicarious." Then "Vicarious > Catastrophe" > >becomes "Chuzhaja avarija." > > I'd like to disagree with Katzner. "chuzhoj" is opposed to "svoj" in > Russian: Chuzhaja nosha ne tjanet, Svoja rubashka blizhe k telu. Someone > else's has no effect on you. Vicarious, on the other hand, is what you > experience second-hand, so to speak. One may get vicarious pleasure from > gift giving, for ex. Cambridge dictionary gives "vicarious thrill from > watching motor racing". Granted, vacarious is more common in English, but > so are many other psychological terms. While it's possible to find > "opsredovannoe udovol'stvie", it's not so easy with catastrophes, because > in this case Russians "sochuvstvujut" or "soperezhivajut". > > __________________________ > Alina Israeli > LFS, American University > 4400 Mass. Ave., NW > Washington, DC 20016 > > phone: (202) 885-2387 > fax: (202) 885-1076 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! > Messenger with Voice. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Wed Apr 19 05:04:48 2006 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 01:04:48 -0400 Subject: podkidnoy durak In-Reply-To: <157c0b122ce6cbe38cd6b47091c8bc2e@mac.com> Message-ID: I think that "UNO" might be functionally equivalent with "DURAK" in some sense. I assume here that "podkidnoj" (more fun, more interpersonal interaction) is not essential here. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Emily Saunders wrote: > For what it is worth this game (described as "President" on the website > you give) I have actually played in Russia under another name -- Govno, > I think. It's a bit like the card game "Bullshit" -- and I apologize > for the epithets, but these are the names of the games -- however, the > key elements include changing seats at the end of each round and the > exchange of cards according to the "social status" obtained during the > last hand. I have some uproarious memories of playing Govno with a > huge group of friends on a Primorsky beach in the summertime, with us > kicking sand all round at the end of each hand as we switched places... > > The associations I've always had with Durak is that it is a > college-student (possibly army recruit), on long train trips, visiting > grandparents type of card game. It's perhaps a bit of a working class > game, but I would say that it lacks the strong childhood associations > that games like Go Fish, Old Maid, and Crazy 8's have for your average > American card player. > > (Erik: Thanks for the www.pagat.com website address -- I was delighted > to find rules for tysyacha (1000) there. Memories from college dorm > late-night card sessions come flooding back...) > > Regards, > > Emily Saunders > > > On Apr 18, 2006, at 2:28 PM, Erik McDonald wrote: > > > There is a card game played in the US that is somewhat similar to > > "podkidnoi durak," though it isn't the same. Its unliterary name - I > > know it as "Asshole" - and its social status as a drinking game rather > > than a children's game might make it unsuitable for the Grossman > > translation. The rules can be found at > > http://www.pagat.com/climbing/asshole.html, which gives some less > > offensive names for it as well. That site puts it in a different > > classification than Durak (the same site's Durak rules, as Anthony > > Qualin wrote, can be found at > > http://www.pagat.com/beating/durak.html), but at least it isn't a > > trick-taking game. As in Durak, the last person with cards left loses > > and becomes the name of the game. > > > > Erik McDonald > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexei.A.Glushchenko at PLC-OIL.RU Wed Apr 19 06:59:06 2006 From: Alexei.A.Glushchenko at PLC-OIL.RU (Glushchenko, Alexei A.) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:59:06 +0400 Subject: Two Terms Message-ID: > <...> "pissing match?" === Петушиный бой (petushinyi boi) is admittedly not quite the same thing, but might work in some contexts. Alexei Glushchenko From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 19 08:24:15 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 01:24:15 -0700 Subject: Two Terms In-Reply-To: <002801c66339$cd924a00$d3114047@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: Then I would cal it "babij bunt" in Russian, not "babja draka"... Inna Caron wrote: Pretty much what was going on around here with Onegin's sexuality issue in the last couple of weeks. -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Maryna Vinarska Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 6:35 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Two Terms "Bab'ja draka" (meaning between each other) (colloq.) As to the second one, I don't know what it means in English. MV DBH wrote: Dear Colleagues, Can anyone propose functional equivalents in Russian for the terms "cat fight" and/or "pissing match?" Variants for various stylistic registers would be interesting. Regards JW Narins --- mipco wrote: > I finally decided to part with poetry collection I > have brought with > me from the USSR 30 years ago. It is about 100 > volumes of BOLSHAYA > SERIA "BIBLIOTEKA POETA" (vtoroye izdaniye) > published from late 50s > to late 70s. It consists of works by Russian poets > from 18 to 20th > century. Blue hard cover volumes Izdatelstvo > "Sovetskii pisatel" in > Moscow. All volumes are with prefaces, commentaries > and illustrations. > You may get the list by downloading it from > http://www.mipco.com/RUSSIAN%20RARE%20BOOKS.doc or I > can send it by > e-mail. > > Please write to: > Michael Peltsman > mpeltsman at usinternet.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2�/min or less. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. 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Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sara.stefani at YALE.EDU Wed Apr 19 12:38:30 2006 From: sara.stefani at YALE.EDU (Sara Stefani) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:38:30 -0400 Subject: podkidnoy durak In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wonder if it wouldn't be better to avoid finding an American/English "equivalent" (such as Uno, Old Maid, Rummy, etc.), since that would give an "unauthentic" feel to the translation and the text. I think that if I, as an American reader, were reading a translation of Grossman and two soldiers were playing a distinctly American card game, it would either strike me as odd and out of place or, if I didn't have much knowledge about Russian culture, I would take it for granted that Russians play the same card games that Americans do. Why not just translate it as "they were playing durak" with a footnote explaining that durak is a Russian card game? Granted, footnotes and annotations are clumsy and awkward - but I find it preferable to misleading the reader by inserting a culturally-inappropriate equivalent. Emily Saunders' earlier suggestion of just saying "they were playing cards" also seems to be a good option. We're familiar with how things are "lost in translation," but sometimes too much is added too. Best, Sara Stefani Quoting Edward M Dumanis : > I think that "UNO" might be functionally equivalent with "DURAK" in some > sense. I assume here that "podkidnoj" (more fun, more interpersonal > interaction) is not essential here. > > Sincerely, > > Edward Dumanis > > On Tue, 18 Apr 2006, Emily Saunders wrote: > >> For what it is worth this game (described as "President" on the website >> you give) I have actually played in Russia under another name -- Govno, >> I think. It's a bit like the card game "Bullshit" -- and I apologize >> for the epithets, but these are the names of the games -- however, the >> key elements include changing seats at the end of each round and the >> exchange of cards according to the "social status" obtained during the >> last hand. I have some uproarious memories of playing Govno with a >> huge group of friends on a Primorsky beach in the summertime, with us >> kicking sand all round at the end of each hand as we switched places... >> >> The associations I've always had with Durak is that it is a >> college-student (possibly army recruit), on long train trips, visiting >> grandparents type of card game. It's perhaps a bit of a working class >> game, but I would say that it lacks the strong childhood associations >> that games like Go Fish, Old Maid, and Crazy 8's have for your average >> American card player. >> >> (Erik: Thanks for the www.pagat.com website address -- I was delighted >> to find rules for tysyacha (1000) there. Memories from college dorm >> late-night card sessions come flooding back...) >> >> Regards, >> >> Emily Saunders >> >> >> On Apr 18, 2006, at 2:28 PM, Erik McDonald wrote: >> >> > There is a card game played in the US that is somewhat similar to >> > "podkidnoi durak," though it isn't the same. Its unliterary name - I >> > know it as "Asshole" - and its social status as a drinking game rather >> > than a children's game might make it unsuitable for the Grossman >> > translation. The rules can be found at >> > http://www.pagat.com/climbing/asshole.html, which gives some less >> > offensive names for it as well. That site puts it in a different >> > classification than Durak (the same site's Durak rules, as Anthony >> > Qualin wrote, can be found at >> > http://www.pagat.com/beating/durak.html), but at least it isn't a >> > trick-taking game. As in Durak, the last person with cards left loses >> > and becomes the name of the game. >> > >> > Erik McDonald >> > >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > -- >> > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > -- >> > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ludovico at FRITAL.UMASS.EDU Wed Apr 19 12:36:15 2006 From: ludovico at FRITAL.UMASS.EDU (Roberto Ludovico) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 08:36:15 -0400 Subject: Symposium on Renato Poggioli Message-ID: Symposium on Renato Poggioli (1907-2007) We are in the process of co-organizing a symposium to commemorate Renato Poggioli on the centenary of his birth. The symposium will take place in the fall of 2007, at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, Harvard University and Brown University. During his illustrious career, Renato Poggioli came to the U.S. as lecturer of Italian at Smith College, was Professor of Comparative Literature at Brown and finally, became Professor of Comparative Literature and Slavic Studies at Harvard. We are looking for colleagues in Comparative Literature, Slavic, Italian and European Studies who are familiar with the work of Poggioli and would be interested in participating in this project. Proposed panels or papers should address Poggioli�s intellectual activity and legacy or focus on disciplines and fields he contributed to during his career, including: the theory of the avant-garde, Twenties Century Russian poetry, Slavic and European Studies in the US, translation, etc., but also Italy-US intellectual exchange in the post WWII era, anti-fascist expatriates in North America, etc. A detailed call for papers will follow. Please contact Roberto Ludovico at ludovico at frital.umass.edu Roberto Ludovico (University of Massachusetts, Amherst) Lino Pertile (Harvard University) Massimo Riva (Brown University) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Wed Apr 19 15:45:12 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:45:12 -0400 Subject: podkidnoy durak In-Reply-To: <20060419083830.3npqli0mwvqcsggk@www.mail.yale.edu> Message-ID: Sara Stefani wrote: > I wonder if it wouldn't be better to avoid finding an > American/English "equivalent" (such as Uno, Old Maid, Rummy, etc.), > since that would give an "unauthentic" feel to the translation and > the text. I think that if I, as an American reader, were reading a > translation of Grossman and two soldiers were playing a distinctly > American card game, it would either strike me as odd and out of place > or, if I didn't have much knowledge about Russian culture, I would > take it for granted that Russians play the same card games that > Americans do. Why not just translate it as "they were playing durak" > with a footnote explaining that durak is a Russian card game? > Granted, footnotes and annotations are clumsy and awkward - but I > find it preferable to misleading the reader by inserting a > culturally-inappropriate equivalent. Emily Saunders' earlier > suggestion of just saying "they were playing cards" also seems to be > a good option. We're familiar with how things are "lost in > translation," but sometimes too much is added too. This choice is a judgment call that must be made based on the purpose of the translation, the intended readership, etc. One size does not fit all. Translations are not done in an idealized vacuum, but in the real world, and reasonable editors may differ in any given instance. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 19 16:15:12 2006 From: n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM (Nina Shevchuk) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:15:12 -0700 Subject: grant funding for translations Message-ID: Dear Colleagues: Please, bear with me: I am sure this topic has come up on this list-serve before, but I can't search the archives from my computer, hence I am forced to rely on your good will with my question. I am looking for a grant to translate/publish a fiction book from Russian. I am aware and will be using the traditional sources of funding for such ventures, such as the NEA. What I am looking for is perhaps referrals to some out-of-the-way funding opportunities that a search for "translation grant funding" would not turn up. I thank you all in advance for your suggestions. Best, Nina Shevchuk-Murray P.S. I'm also shopping for Ukrainian translation funding, but the Russian is more important. --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Wed Apr 19 16:26:37 2006 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 17:26:37 +0100 Subject: podkidnoy durak: Grossman: 'V Kislovodske' & 'Zhilitsa' In-Reply-To: <44465B08.60204@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: Many thanks to the many people who have contributed their thoughts and knowledge! In the story I am at present translating, 'V Kislovodske', the nature of the game is not that important. The game's name does not merit the emphasis it would receive from e.g., 'they were playing durak'. I shall stick with 'they were playing cards'. But there is another story I may end up translating, 'Zhilitsa', where the nature of the game DOES matter. The suggestion is made in the very last line that the card-player, 'kto ostalsya' (i.e. kto ostalsya durakom) should go to the domoupravlenie and hand in an official letter that has just arrived for a 'sosedka' who has just died. The letter is an official notification that the dead woman's husband, who died in 1938, has been 'rehabilitated'. In this case - I have now, after your collective input, decided - I shall translate it as something like 'they were playing "fool"', and provide a footnote briefly explaining the game. Thanks once again! R. > Sara Stefani wrote: > >> I wonder if it wouldn't be better to avoid finding an >> American/English "equivalent" (such as Uno, Old Maid, Rummy, etc.), >> since that would give an "unauthentic" feel to the translation and >> the text. I think that if I, as an American reader, were reading a >> translation of Grossman and two soldiers were playing a distinctly >> American card game, it would either strike me as odd and out of place >> or, if I didn't have much knowledge about Russian culture, I would >> take it for granted that Russians play the same card games that >> Americans do. Why not just translate it as "they were playing durak" >> with a footnote explaining that durak is a Russian card game? >> Granted, footnotes and annotations are clumsy and awkward - but I >> find it preferable to misleading the reader by inserting a >> culturally-inappropriate equivalent. Emily Saunders' earlier >> suggestion of just saying "they were playing cards" also seems to be >> a good option. We're familiar with how things are "lost in >> translation," but sometimes too much is added too. >And Paul Gallagher wrote: > This choice is a judgment call that must be made based on the purpose of > the translation, the intended readership, etc. One size does not fit > all. Translations are not done in an idealized vacuum, but in the real > world, and reasonable editors may differ in any given instance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From annac at UALBERTA.CA Wed Apr 19 16:57:15 2006 From: annac at UALBERTA.CA (Anna Chilewska) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:57:15 -0600 Subject: grant funding for translations In-Reply-To: <20060419161512.3798.qmail@web30406.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear Nina, In what country are you located? I know of a few grants for translation that are available in Canada. Anna Quoting Nina Shevchuk : > Dear Colleagues: > Please, bear with me: I am sure this topic has come up on this > list-serve before, but I can't search the archives from my computer, > hence I am forced to rely on your good will with my question. > > I am looking for a grant to translate/publish a fiction book from > Russian. I am aware and will be using the traditional sources of > funding for such ventures, such as the NEA. What I am looking for is > perhaps referrals to some out-of-the-way funding opportunities that a > search for "translation grant funding" would not turn up. > > I thank you all in advance for your suggestions. > > Best, > > Nina Shevchuk-Murray > > P.S. I'm also shopping for Ukrainian translation funding, but the > Russian is more important. > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 19 17:09:41 2006 From: n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM (Nina Shevchuk) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 10:09:41 -0700 Subject: grant funding for translations In-Reply-To: <20060419105715.5u1ocbm9kwgkco40@webmail.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Apologies, Anna, I'm in the US. We hear envy Canada in that respect sometimes... Anna Chilewska wrote: Dear Nina, In what country are you located? I know of a few grants for translation that are available in Canada. Anna Quoting Nina Shevchuk : > Dear Colleagues: > Please, bear with me: I am sure this topic has come up on this > list-serve before, but I can't search the archives from my computer, > hence I am forced to rely on your good will with my question. > > I am looking for a grant to translate/publish a fiction book from > Russian. I am aware and will be using the traditional sources of > funding for such ventures, such as the NEA. What I am looking for is > perhaps referrals to some out-of-the-way funding opportunities that a > search for "translation grant funding" would not turn up. > > I thank you all in advance for your suggestions. > > Best, > > Nina Shevchuk-Murray > > P.S. I'm also shopping for Ukrainian translation funding, but the > Russian is more important. > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sean.cotter at UTDALLAS.EDU Wed Apr 19 17:57:44 2006 From: sean.cotter at UTDALLAS.EDU (Cotter, Sean J) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:57:44 -0500 Subject: grant funding for translations Message-ID: Hello Nina, You might monitor the grants page on the American Literary Translators Assoc. website: http://www.literarytranslators.org/grants.html Best, Sean Cotter -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Nina Shevchuk Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:10 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] grant funding for translations Apologies, Anna, I'm in the US. We hear envy Canada in that respect sometimes... Anna Chilewska wrote: Dear Nina, In what country are you located? I know of a few grants for translation that are available in Canada. Anna Quoting Nina Shevchuk : > Dear Colleagues: > Please, bear with me: I am sure this topic has come up on this > list-serve before, but I can't search the archives from my computer, > hence I am forced to rely on your good will with my question. > > I am looking for a grant to translate/publish a fiction book from > Russian. I am aware and will be using the traditional sources of > funding for such ventures, such as the NEA. What I am looking for is > perhaps referrals to some out-of-the-way funding opportunities that a > search for "translation grant funding" would not turn up. > > I thank you all in advance for your suggestions. > > Best, > > Nina Shevchuk-Murray > > P.S. I'm also shopping for Ukrainian translation funding, but the > Russian is more important. > > > --------------------------------- > Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using > Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brewerm at U.LIBRARY.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Apr 19 18:24:42 2006 From: brewerm at U.LIBRARY.ARIZONA.EDU (Brewer, Michael) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 11:24:42 -0700 Subject: grant funding for translations Message-ID: If your school subscribes to it, try the database Community of Science Funding Opportunities (and just search for translation). Quite a few things come up. If you don't have it, I can share some of the sources with you off list. mb Michael Brewer Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian University of Arizona Library A210 1510 E. University P.O. Box 210055 Tucson, AZ 85721 Voice: 520.307.2771 Fax: 520.621.9733 brewerm at u.library.arizona.edu -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Nina Shevchuk Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 9:15 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] grant funding for translations Dear Colleagues: Please, bear with me: I am sure this topic has come up on this list-serve before, but I can't search the archives from my computer, hence I am forced to rely on your good will with my question. I am looking for a grant to translate/publish a fiction book from Russian. I am aware and will be using the traditional sources of funding for such ventures, such as the NEA. What I am looking for is perhaps referrals to some out-of-the-way funding opportunities that a search for "translation grant funding" would not turn up. I thank you all in advance for your suggestions. Best, Nina Shevchuk-Murray P.S. I'm also shopping for Ukrainian translation funding, but the Russian is more important. --------------------------------- Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make PC-to-Phone Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lonny.harrison at UTORONTO.CA Wed Apr 19 19:19:48 2006 From: lonny.harrison at UTORONTO.CA (Lonny Harrison) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 15:19:48 -0400 Subject: grant funding for translations In-Reply-To: <20060419105715.5u1ocbm9kwgkco40@webmail.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Quoting Anna Chilewska : > Dear Nina, > In what country are you located? I know of a few grants for translation > that are available in Canada. > Anna Dear Anna, If you don't mind sharing some of these, it would be greatly appreciated, whether on or offlist. Cordially, Lonny Harrison ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From monniern at MISSOURI.EDU Wed Apr 19 19:37:37 2006 From: monniern at MISSOURI.EDU (Nicole Monnier) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:37:37 -0500 Subject: And now for something completely different: Glazunov's concerto for saxophone Message-ID: Dear SEELANGStsy! This is a shot in the dark, but is there anyone out there who knows where one can get information (preferably in English or Russian) about the performance history of Glazunov's Opus 109 concerto for saxophone? A student of mine is desperately attempting to finish a senior music performance project, which includes program notes, and he's had minimal luck obtaining information about the piece. All leads greatly appreciated (he's a very sweet guy who's been in school a LONG time and has finally summoned up the wherewithal to graduate!). Best, Nicole **************************** Dr. Nicole Monnier Assistant Professor of Instruction Director of Undergraduate Studies (Russian) German & Russian Studies 415 GCB University of Missouri Columbia, MO 65211 phone: 573.882.3370 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 19 19:43:23 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 12:43:23 -0700 Subject: "the moral occult" how to traslate this term into Russian? In-Reply-To: <20060418183752.CDD79229@m4000.it.wm.edu> Message-ID: Alexander Prokhorov wrote:In his monograph _The Melodramatic Imagination: Balzac, Henry James, Melodrama, and the Mode of Excess_, Peter Brooks coins the term "the moral occult" to describe "the domain of operative spiritual values which is both indicated within and masked by the surface reality" ..........................Maybe it is simply that what we call "nravstvennyj kod" nowadays. You may even say "podsoznatel'nyj nravstvennyj kod". In our perception this is what you get with genes from all your ancestors. This is where all your spiritual values are kind of encrypted. They are hidden, invisible for other people, they are not on the surface, even you yourself can't decipher this code. But exactly this "kod" determines your behaviour in any extreme situation. And it is actually beyond your control. It is not the same with "moral'nye prinzipy". "Moral'nye prinzipy", according to our beliefs, imply that what you have as a result of your up-bringing and education and what actually may evaporate any moment if it comes into conflict exactly with this invisible "podsoznatel'nyj nravstvennyj kod" (that may mean smth very bad as well and may ruin that what your parents or teachers or whoever tried to bring to you). V obshchem, tozhe polnaja mistika... This is only my attempt to guess what that "moral occult" may mean. I don't know what the book is about. But I read all other suggestions, so maybe it is better to use that, "k chemu u liudej uzhe ukho privyklo". MV --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger’s low PC-to-Phone call rates. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mdenner at STETSON.EDU Wed Apr 19 20:05:19 2006 From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU (Michael Denner) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:05:19 -0400 Subject: "Russia Today" course suggestions Message-ID: George, Two books to recommend, both appropriate for a first-year course that's interdisciplinary and (especially) aimed at the social-science end of the spectrum: Kotkin's short and sweet book _Armageddon Averted_ is a cogent and convincing account of how the Soviet Union collapsed upon itself. It does not presuppose a lot of knowledge on the students' part. I used it with great success in a Russia Today course last year. (I'd be happy to share the syllabus.) I just finished Billington's recent book, _Russia in Search of Itself_. I found it highly readable, with most of the esoterica (a delectation for me, less so for the beginning student) in the endnotes. Billington's book is more focused on the cultural and social, while Kotkin's is very oriented towards economics and politics. They would work well together. Both provide an excellent overview of the changes during the past twenty years, and both are appropriate for students with little or no knowledge of Russia. Best, mad ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Dr. Michael A. Denner Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal Director, University Honors Program Contact Information: Russian Studies Program Stetson University Campus Box 8361 DeLand, FL 32720-3756 386.822.7381 (department) 386.822.7265 (direct line) 386.822.7380 (fax) www.stetson.edu/~mdenner -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of George Mitrevski Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 1:46 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] "Russia Today" course suggestions Hi folks. I'm looking for suggestions for a course titled "Russia Today". The course is in English. Any suggestions for an anthology of late-Soviet and post-Soviet short stories, films, online resources, and a textbook that covers the gamut of life in Russia today? Cordially, George. Foreign Languages tel. 334-844-6376 6030 Haley Center fax. 334-844-6378 Auburn University Auburn, AL 36849 home: www.auburn.edu/~mitrege ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vanya1v at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 19 20:15:09 2006 From: vanya1v at YAHOO.COM (J.W.) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 16:15:09 -0400 Subject: Two terms Message-ID: Ottawa (Canada), Wednesday 19/4/06 15h00 EDT One fairly extensive site for women's combat sports in Russia gives simply "кетфайтинг" (ketfajting) and "кетфайт" (кетфайт) as the Russian equivalents for "catfighting" and "catfight" respectively. See: http://www.fscclub.com/vidy/catfighting.shtml Yandex lists 95 pages for "кетфайт" (кетфайт) and 61 for "кетфайтинг" (ketfajting). J. Woodsworth ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brewerm at U.LIBRARY.ARIZONA.EDU Wed Apr 19 21:28:16 2006 From: brewerm at U.LIBRARY.ARIZONA.EDU (Brewer, Michael) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 14:28:16 -0700 Subject: grant funding for translations Message-ID: Here are a few that looked relevant. There are many more that are eligible, I believe, only to particular audiences (Canadian citizens, for example). There are also a lot of "prizes" for superior translations. These seemed to support the work of translating rather than awarding translations already done. mb Translation Projects National Foundation for the Arts and the Humanities National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) Literature Fellowships Through fellowships to published translators of exceptional talent, the Arts Endowment supports projects that involve the specific translation of prose, poetry, or drama from other languages into English. For the past several years, Translation Projects have operated on a two-year cycle with fellowships in prose available one year and fellowships in poetry available the next. This year, prose, poetry, and drama all are eligible for translation. -------- Grants Witter Bynner Foundation for Poetry - Translation and the Process of Translation The translation of poetry from languages not currently available to English readers and poetry which has not been translated or merits a new translation. Projects, which explore the art and the process of translation, are also encouraged. The foundation does not fund publications of poetry-in-translation; it rather makes it a priority to give grants to individual translators. Samples from the proposed translation should accompany the application. --------- Max Hayward Fellowship in Russian Literature St. Antony's College invites applications for the Max Hayward Fellowship in Russian Literature for the academic year 2006-2007. The holder may engage in research, criticism, editing, translation, preparation of a thesis for publication, or other forms of literary scholarship, broadly defined, which may embrace themes on literature, culture, and society. -------- Fellowships for University Teachers National Foundation for the Arts and the Humanities National Endowment for the Humanities (NEH) Division of Research Programs Projects supported by National Endowment for the Humanities (NEH) Fellowships cover a variety of activities. They may contribute to scholarly knowledge, to the advancement of teaching, or to the general public's understanding of the humanities. Such work might eventually produce scholarly articles, a monograph on a specialized subject, a book-length treatment of a broad topic, an archaeological site report, a translation, an edition, or other scholarly tool in either traditional or electronic formats. --------- Michael Brewer Slavic Studies, German Studies & Media Arts Librarian University of Arizona Library A210 1510 E. University P.O. Box 210055 Tucson, AZ 85721 Voice: 520.307.2771 Fax: 520.621.9733 brewerm at u.library.arizona.edu -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Lonny Harrison Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 12:20 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] grant funding for translations Quoting Anna Chilewska : > Dear Nina, > In what country are you located? I know of a few grants for translation > that are available in Canada. > Anna Dear Anna, If you don't mind sharing some of these, it would be greatly appreciated, whether on or offlist. Cordially, Lonny Harrison ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brifkin at TEMPLE.EDU Wed Apr 19 23:44:55 2006 From: brifkin at TEMPLE.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:44:55 -0400 Subject: classics on line (translation) Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers: Does anyone know of a website with the 19th century Russian classics on line in translation? This would help students search for a particular phrase or image when writing a paper, especially useful for the longer novels. With thanks, Ben Rifkin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Thu Apr 20 00:08:42 2006 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:08:42 -0400 Subject: classics on line (translation) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many can be found here: http://www.online-literature.com/author_index.php It's not just Russian writers, so you have to search by name, but the translations are acceptable. I used this in my class as a source for some short stories, which I could not find in English translation otherwise. All novels that are likely to be studied on the level where an English translation is needed are definitely available on this site. Inna Caron Ohio State -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Benjamin Rifkin Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2006 7:45 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] classics on line (translation) Dear SEELANGers: Does anyone know of a website with the 19th century Russian classics on line in translation? This would help students search for a particular phrase or image when writing a paper, especially useful for the longer novels. With thanks, Ben Rifkin ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rjs19 at COLUMBIA.EDU Thu Apr 20 00:15:06 2006 From: rjs19 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Rebecca Jane Stanton) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 20:15:06 -0400 Subject: classics on line (translation) In-Reply-To: <002b01c6640e$958c56c0$d3114047@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: Two more links: A page of Russian texts that are available on Project Gutenberg and elsewhere: http://www.onlinebooks4free.com/menu/literature_slavic.html And for students who can read Russian, but not fluently, the following is an amazing resource: http://conradish.net/ In the site's own words: "This section contains works of notable Russian/Soviet writers from the Nineteenth and Twentith Century. The text is in Russian, with special reading aids for learners of that language. When you encounter a word that you don't know, poisition your mouse pointer over it to see its English equivalent. For a more detailed description, click on the word." Regards, Rebecca Stanton -- Assistant Professor, Russian literature Dept. of Slavic Languages Barnard College, Columbia University 226D Milbank Hall 3009 Broadway New York, NY 10027 - 212.854.3133 http://www.columbia.edu/~rjs19 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Thu Apr 20 01:59:02 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 18:59:02 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: Neuro-Psychoanalysis Marches On] Message-ID: 19 April 2006 Dear Colleagues, For your information, in case you are interested, I am forwarding this item from psychoanalyst and literary scholar Norman Holland. Cheers, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: multipart/alternative Size: 4816 bytes Desc: not available URL: From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Thu Apr 20 02:17:25 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 19:17:25 -0700 Subject: Neuro-Psychoanalysis Marches On Message-ID: 19 April 2006 Dear Colleagues, I forward this item, in case you are interested, from psychoanalyst and literary scholar Norman Holland. Cheers, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere > > Sleeping giant > > > Sue Blackmore > > April 6, 2006 09:35 AM > > http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/sue_blackmore/2006/04/voting_on_freud_1.html > > Freud just won't go away. A century old, his theory of dreams, which > ought to have slipped quietly into oblivion, still provokes even > serious scientists into heated debate. > > I am in Tucson, Arizona, for the biennial conference "Toward a Science > of Consciousness > ", a gathering of > neuroscientists, psychologists, philosophers and numerous others who > love grappling with the "greatest mystery for science". This morning > we were treated to a debate on the motion "Freud's dream theory is > misguided and misleading. It should be abandoned." Quite so I would > say, but if it's that obvious why have a debate? Obviously not > everyone agreed with me. > > Proposing the notion was Allan Hobson > , of Harvard > Medical School, who claimed that Freud was 50% right and 100% wrong; > right because he took dreams seriously and tried to build his theory > on brain science, wrong because the theory he came up with has been > completely discredited. Freud believed that dreams are driven by > unconscious wishes; they are bizarre because the wishes are disguised, > and the function of dreaming is to maintain sleep. All this is false, > claimed Hobson, whose own "AIM" theory explains dreaming in terms of > modern neurobiology and treats dreams themselves as epiphenomena of > REM sleep, whose function is thermoregulation - therefore nothing to > do with dreams per se. > > Opposing Hobson was South African psychoanalyst, Mark Solms, > who began by > explaining that he had originally hoped to debate Hobson's own theory, > or even better his own theory, but since he was forced to defend Freud > he would do so, not on the grounds that Freud was right about > everything - he was not - but on the grounds that Freud provided > useful ideas that can still be valuable as we move on to better > theories. Hobson, he said, has done an injustice to Freud and > misrepresented his theory. Freud believed that drives do not stop > during sleep but executive control is reduced - there is a shift from > the ego to the id. For example, if I want to teach Hobson a lesson I > may dream that I'm at school and Hobson is a boy in class. In this way > the dream preserves sleep by preventing me acting it out. With the > audience laughing along with him he claimed that Freud's theory had > more right about it than Hobson's. > > Hobson fought back, claiming that Solms misrepresented his theory, and > that he had only dealt with one third of Freud's theory, and that > "Freud is dead in the water". He even accused Solms of always > publishing his work in books rather than proper peer-reviewed science > journals. Not so, Solms calmly replied, claiming over 300 scholarly > articles and adding, "I'm afraid this is just bad manners" - and > clearly it was. You could almost feel the shift of sympathy away from > the accuser and towards the psychoanalyst. > > Before the vote there were lively questions. I explained that I am > frequently asked by journalists and radio producers to interpret > people's dreams - at the worst they will say: "We've invited a > celebrity in to tell us their dreams and we want you to interpret > them." I never know what to do. If I refuse then someone else will > only fill the role and provide some Freudian waffle. If I accept then > I have to say that interpretation only works for each individual and > the popular books are just gimmicks. Can you give me some advice? > Hobson replied: "Refuse more often," and Solms: "Give them my phone > number." So I am none the wiser. > > And what about that vote? I was amazed. By a rough show of hands the > motion - which seemed so obviously right to me - was rejected by about > two to one. And had people been swayed by the debate? Another vote > revealed that just two people had swung towards the motion and well > over 50 the other way, but I think the reason was clear. Freud's > defender had been polite and funny in the face of the onslaught and so > had won people over. > > As the chairman concluded, settling scientific truth by democracy is > not to be taken seriously. Happily, unlike politicians, scientists > don't take votes seriously - at least, I don't think they do. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Thu Apr 20 02:38:40 2006 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:38:40 -0400 Subject: classics on line (translation) In-Reply-To: <4446D28A.8070505@columbia.edu> Message-ID: >And for students who can read Russian, but not fluently, the following >is an amazing resource: >http://conradish.net/ You're right; it is absolutely amazing. I've bookmarked it, thank you! Inna ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gsti at MIIS.EDU Thu Apr 20 05:14:37 2006 From: gsti at MIIS.EDU (gsti) Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 22:14:37 -0700 Subject: Fwd: Please post to SEELANGS Message-ID: Monterey Institute MONTEREY INSTITUTE OF INTERNATIONAL STUDIES Monterey, California, USA GRADUATE SCHOOL OF TRANSLATION AND INTERPRETATION FALL 2006 RUSSIAN ADVANCED-ENTRY PROGRAM The Russian Program of the Graduate School of Translation and Interpretation (GSTI) at the Monterey Institute of International Studies is currently expanding admission to its Advanced-Entry program for the 2006-2007 academic year. During the current Fall 2006 application period, GSTI-Russian will be focusing on recruiting and enrolling candidates with education and/or professional experience in translation and interpretation in our exclusive one-year Advanced-Entry Master of Arts program. GSTI offers MA degrees in translation (MAT), translation/localization management (MATLM), translation and interpretation (MATI), and conference interpretation (MACI). Please forward this information to Russian speakers who might be interested in Russian translation and interpretation training at the top T&I graduate school in the USA. For additional information, please contact: Rosa Kavenoki, Russian Program Head Associate Professor [ mailto:rkavenoki at miis.edu ]of Russian Translation and Interpretation [ mailto:rkavenoki at miis.edu ]rkavenoki at miis.edu Mike Gillen, Professor of Russian Translation mgillen at miis.edu Jeff Wood, Director, GSTI Career and Enrollment Management jwood at miis.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwilson at ALINGA.COM Thu Apr 20 06:52:11 2006 From: jwilson at ALINGA.COM (Josh Wilson) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:52:11 +0400 Subject: classics on line (translation) In-Reply-To: <000801c66423$88cb0fc0$d3114047@acer2e68c49b20> Message-ID: I've also placed in on our Library of Russian Resources - Thanks! http://www.sras.org/news.phtml?m=491 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at listserv.cuny.edu] On Behalf Of Inna Caron Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 6:39 AM To: SEELANGS at listserv.cuny.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] classics on line (translation) >And for students who can read Russian, but not fluently, the following >is an amazing resource: >http://conradish.net/ You're right; it is absolutely amazing. I've bookmarked it, thank you! Inna ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexei.A.Glushchenko at PLC-OIL.RU Thu Apr 20 07:37:18 2006 From: Alexei.A.Glushchenko at PLC-OIL.RU (Glushchenko, Alexei A.) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:37:18 +0400 Subject: classics on line (translation) Message-ID: > When you encounter a word that you don't know, > poisition your mouse pointer over it to see its English equivalent. === Slick idea -- too bad it doesn't always work well. Guess what pops up for "души" and "писал" in the following fragment from Ruslan and Lyudmila: "Для вас, души моей царицы, Красавицы, для вас одних Времен минувших небылицы, В часы досугов золотых, Под шепот старины болтливой, Рукою верной я писал" Alexei Glushchenko ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Thu Apr 20 10:49:06 2006 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 06:49:06 -0400 Subject: classics on line (translation) In-Reply-To: <568F881C9A75B94EB5E7D35B49E9B9D1A78DF6@plctest.plc.net> Message-ID: Thank God computers can't do everything (yet). That's what ensures our job security :) -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Glushchenko, Alexei A. Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2006 3:37 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] classics on line (translation) > When you encounter a word that you don't know, > poisition your mouse pointer over it to see its English equivalent. === Slick idea -- too bad it doesn't always work well. Guess what pops up for "души" and "писал" in the following fragment from Ruslan and Lyudmila: "Для вас, души моей царицы, Красавицы, для вас одних Времен минувших небылицы, В часы досугов золотых, Под шепот старины болтливой, Рукою верной я писал" Alexei Glushchenko ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tnicholson at PIH.ORG Thu Apr 20 14:14:21 2006 From: tnicholson at PIH.ORG (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Tom_Nicholson?=) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:14:21 -0400 Subject: Job Posting for Public Health Specialist -- Tomsk Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, Please see the job description below for Public Health Specialist in Tomsk, Russia. Thanks, Tom Nicholson Partners In Health PARTNERS IN HEALTH April 2006 Job Title: Public Health Specialist Project Description: Partners In Health, based in Boston, has been collaborating with Russian and international partners to implement a DOTS Plus Program to treat MDR TB in both the prison and civilian sectors of Tomsk Oblast since 2000. Job Description: This position works closely with the Tomsk Project Coordinator and the PIH Russia team to provide technical assistance to Tomsk Oblast in the implementation of innovative programs in TB and TB/HIV. Specifically, the Specialist will be responsible for implementing the sub-program to extend TB treatment to groups at risk of default, for organizing trainings, and for conducting operational research. Primary Responsibilities: • Manages the project’s sub-program on providing treatment to patients at risk of default; • Works with Tomsk partners to organize trainings on MDR TB and prepares materials for training and other educational activities; • Collects epidemiological information and patient treatment data and reports on TB cases and cohort tendencies; • Monitors the quality of clinical data and organizes Tomsk services to improve internal quality control mechanisms; • Analyzes project data to identify weak points and develops interventions to address them; • Produces monthly reports that show progress against all indicators; • Works closely with local Tomsk staff; • Produces quarterly reports for Headquarters on the status of project; • Works with Tomsk services to organize and coordinate operational research for programmatic improvement, including data collection, extraction, and analysis; • Supports Monitoring and Evaluation of the project; • Contributes to other PIH activities as time allows. Requirements: • Ability to work independently and take initiative; • MPH or equivalent; • MD preferred; • Fluency in English and Russian; • Excellent interpersonal skills and demonstrated ability to interact professionally with culturally diverse staff, clients, and consultants; • Experience working with Microsoft office software; • Strong communication, organizational, and writing skills; • Ability to work with a diverse team and in complicated settings; • Experience working with Western NGOs in the health care field preferred; • Interest in social justice and health care issues. Position will be for 2 years, based in Tomsk, Russian Federation. Salary: Commensurate with experience Send CV and Cover Letter to: tnicholson at pih.org or Tom Nicholson, 641 Huntington Ave, Boston, MA, 02115 Please visit www.pih.org to learn more about Partners In Health. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dotoiu at ULB.AC.BE Thu Apr 20 14:15:38 2006 From: dotoiu at ULB.AC.BE (Damiana-Gabriela Otoiu) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:15:38 +0200 Subject: CfP:_Linfluence_belge_en_Roumanie_et_en_Bulgarie_(XIXe_-_XXe_sicles),_Bucarest,_1-2.12.2006_ Message-ID: Appel à communications Colloque international organisé par l’Université de Bucarest, l’Université Libre de Bruxelles et la Nouvelle Université Bulgare de Sofia, en collaboration avec le Commissariat général aux Relations internationales de la Communauté française Wallonie - Bruxelles L’influence belge en Roumanie et en Bulgarie (XIXe - XXe siècles) Université de Bucarest, Faculté de Sciences Politiques les 1-2 décembre 2006 La Faculté de Sciences Politiques de l’Université de Bucarest, le GASPPECO (Groupe d’analyse socio-politique des pays d’Europe Centrale et Orientale) de l’Université Libre de Bruxelles et la Nouvelle Université Bulgare de Sofia organiseront à Bucarest un colloque international ayant pour thème la force du modèle belge dans la modernisation roumaine et bulgare et la complexité des rapports établis entre les trois pays au XIXe et au XXe siècles. Le colloque s’inscrit dans le cadre d’une série de manifestations fêtant l’anniversaire de l’établissement des relations diplomatiques entre la Belgique et les deux pays. Le colloque vise à nourrir une réflexion comparative sur l’influence belge en Roumanie et en Bulgarie au cours de l’histoire moderne de l’Europe. L’objectif des organisateurs est de couvrir le plus largement possible ce champ d’interactions, d’échanges, de transferts, où la Belgique à souvent apparu comme modèle à suivre pour la modernisation politique, sociale et économique des deux pays. En même temps la perspective n’est pas uniquement historique, dans la mesure où la Belgique continue d’être présente dans l’actuelle transition postcommuniste. Ainsi ce colloque permettra aussi de faire le lien entre le passé, le présent et implicitement le futur (pour mettre par exemple en évidence les convergences de vues dans la construction européenne). D’un autre côté il n’y a pas d’influence sans connaissance – par conséquent, la connaissance de la Belgique en Roumanie et en Bulgarie et vice versa, la connaissance en Belgique de ces deux pays de l‘Europe du Sud-Est, pourraient constituer un autre champ important d’investigation. THÈMES DU COLLOQUE Les organisateurs du colloque proposent 4 pistes de réflexion : • Influences historico-culturelles o Interférences historiques et diplomatiques o Références historiques o Présence dans les archives o Échanges culturels et linguistiques o Influences intellectuelles et artistiques • Influences politiques et institutionnelles o Modèles constitutionnels des États indépendants o Relations politiques et modèles politiques (dont le questionnement sur les modèles de décentralisation administrative ) o Visions de l’autre • Influences économiques et sociales o Présence économique (investissements) et ses effets o Entrepreneurs et savoir-faire o Transferts technologiques • Influences européennes o Belgique et Bruxelles comme symbole de l’UE o Connaissance de la Belgique à travers l’UE o Appartenance commune à la Francophonie PROPOSITIONS DE COMMUNICATION Cet appel s’adresse à tous les chercheurs en sciences sociales ; les communications de jeunes chercheurs (doctorants et post-doctorants) sont particulièrement encouragées. Les propositions de communication en français (300 mots maximum) sont à envoyer avant le 1er juillet 2006 à l’attention de : Jean-Michel DE WAELE (jmdewael at ulb.ac.be), professeur de science politique à l’Université libre de Bruxelles et directeur du GASPPECO. Les participants sont priés de bien vouloir envoyer un court CV précisant leur affiliation institutionnelle et leur statut. DÉROULEMENT DE LA CONFÉRENCE & PUBLICATION Le colloque aura lieu à Bucarest, les 1-2 décembre 2006. La langue de travail du colloque sera le français. Le colloque sera prolongé par l’édition d’un livre (en français). COMITÉ SCIENTIFIQUE Jean – Michel DE WAELE, Université Libre de Bruxelles Anna KRASTEVA, Nouvelle Université Bulgare Cristian PREDA, Université de Bucarest, Faculté de Sciences Politiques Antony TODOROV, Nouvelle Université Bulgare Laurentiu VLAD, Université de Bucarest, Faculté de Sciences Politiques CALENDRIER Date limite d’envoi des résumés : le 1er juillet 2006 Décision du comité scientifique et réponse aux auteurs : (avant) le 1er août 2006 Conférence : les 1-2 décembre 2006 v. http://www.seminairevirtuel.ro/inflbelge.html Damiana OTOIU CEVIPOL - GASPPECO Institut de Sociologie 44, Avenue Jeanne 1050, Bruxelles Tél: +32(0)26503454 +32(0)486604730 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dotoiu at ULB.AC.BE Thu Apr 20 14:32:13 2006 From: dotoiu at ULB.AC.BE (Damiana-Gabriela Otoiu) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 16:32:13 +0200 Subject: CfP: The Anthropology of the SEE, Poetics and Politics in Anthropology, 23 26 November 2006, Craiova, Romania Message-ID: The Second International Conference in Ethnology and Anthropology AnthropoEast The Anthropology of the South-Eastern Europe Poetics and Politics in Anthropology 23 – 26 November 2006 Craiova, Romania Dear Colleagues, It is our great pleasure to inform you that from the 23rd to the 26th of November 2006 the Second International Conference in Ethnology and Anthropology AnthropoEast - The Anthropology of the South-Eastern Europe. Poetics and Politics in Anthropology will take place in Craiova. Organised by the The Museum of Oltenia – The Department of Ethnography, The University of Craiova – the Faculty of Letters and the Centre for Studies in Folk life and Traditional Culture of the County of Dolj with the support of the County of Dolj Council, the purpose of the second edition of our conference is to enlarge the debate framework of the 2003 edition topic – Anthropology in-between the (re)-organisation of the object and the methodological explosion – and to go further towards and discuss on poetics/politics in the anthropological/anthropologized context of what social scientists use to call the New Europe. Starting from the late developments at political, social and cultural level both in European context and in the wider context of a fragile and tense global order the Conference would like to become an arena for a sharp and close anthropological analysis of the inclusive and exclusive New Europe and its efforts to renegotiate and impose its position in the new dramatic context of third millennium clash of civilisations. Are Anthropology and anthropologists prepared to deal with the continuous acceleration of history? Is the 21st century Anthropology able to provide the tools and solutions for complex topics such as religion and the clashes of civilisations, fighting terrorism or the re-invention of crusades, managing conflict in multicultural and ethnic communities, enlarging and inclusion, the new field approach methodology and the new ethnographic “text” and “context”? In order to cover all these topics the Conference will be organised in two main sections, as follows: I. Facing the 21st century dilemma: The good old Continent and the New Europe. Again about inclusion and exclusion in The New Europe. 1. Ethnic relations, cultural resistance, and civic society. 2. Reshaping cultures. Labour migrations and the Construction of Ethnic Groups: Rituals, Narratives, Discourses and Material Culture 3. Male world, female power, and transitional cultures. 4. Body, embodiment, and law. 5. Fighting terrorism or “crusades re-loaded”. Managing religious and political conflict. 6. Managing marginal areas. Forms of inclusion and exclusion in the New Europe. 7. „Is there anybody out there?”. Europenising the traditional East. II. Writing Anthropology: From the methodological rigour to the "academic" essay 1. Methodological Use of Discourse in Social Sciences: Heterodoxy or Xenoglossia 2. Writing the 21st century Ethnography: from field to „text”. Epistemological aspects. 3. Language and representations in Anthropology. 4. Virtual Ethnography and the Ethnography of the Virtual Space. 5. Oral culture and transcultural information. 6. Anthropology and Citizenship Papers will be given in English or French and presentations are not to exceed 20 minutes each. All papers are going to be published in the conference’s journal, Symposia. Studies in Ethnology and Anthropology - 2006. That is why the papers to be presented in the conference, the in extenso copy, should be submitted to our editorial board by the 1st of August. The submitters should send the papers to the publisher at the following address: - dr. Mihai FIFOR – general manager - Adina GHERBAN – project coordinator The Museum of Oltenia 8 Popa Sapca Street, 200422 Craiova - Romania Tel: 0040 251 411906 Fax: 0040 251 419435 E-mail: muzeulolteniei at yahoo.com www.muzeulolteniei.ro The papers, which can be written in English or French, should be original and should not be under consideration elsewhere. Articles should not exceed 9000 words. On a different sheet of paper you are to write the author's name and academic affiliation and also the title of the paper. All contributions should be clearly typed or printed on one side of an A4 paper or American Quarto, one and a half spaced and with wide margins throughout (including footnotes and bibliographical references). Footnotes should be kept at a minimum. Essential notes should be presented in a typed list at the end of the article, one and a half spaced. Bibliographical references should be given in parentheses in a standard author-date form in the body of the text: (Thomas 1991: 123) A complete list of references cited, arranged alphabetically by author's surname, should be typed at the end of the article: Thomas, K. 1991. Religion and the Decline of Magic. London: Penguin Books. Declich, F. 2000. 'Sufi experience in rural Somali. A focus on women', Social Anthropology 8, 3 : 295-318. Lash, S. and Friedman, J. (eds.) 1996. Modernity and Identity. Oxford: Blackwell. Quotations. Single inverted commas should be used except for quotations within quotations, which should have double inverted commas. Quotations of more than 60 words should be set off from the text with an extra line of spacing above and below, and typed without inverted commas. Spelling. British English (not American English) spelling should be used in English articles except in quoted matter which should follow the original. Use -ise not -ize word endings. Participation expenses. All the expenses, excepting the travel costs, will be covered by the organisers. Still the organisers might consider a limited number of travel stipends for early registrants. Participation fee. No participation fee will be charged. Registration. In order to register, a message containing the tentative title of the paper, a short abstract (no more than 300 words) and the academic affiliation should be sent to the organisers. The deadline for registration is June 1st, 2006. Therefore, we would kindly invite you to take part in our conference, your presence being a real guaranty for our reunion success. Looking forward to hearing from you, Truly yours, Mihai Fifor, PhD Researcher General Manager of the the Museum of Oltenia THE PROGRAM OF THE CONFERENCE Wednesday, November 22, 2006 17.00 Arrival 19.30 Dinner Thursday, November 23, 2006 08.00 Breakfast 09.30 Official opening of the Conference 10.30 Coffee break 11.00 Plenum 14.00 Lunch 16.00 Workshops 17.30 Coffee break 17.45 Workshops 20.00 Dinner 21.00 Ethnologic Film Show Friday, November 24, 2006 08.00 Breakfast 09.00 Workshops 10.30 Coffee break 11.00 Workshops 12.30 City tour 14.30 Lunch 16.00 Workshops 17.30 Coffee break 18.00 Workshop reports 20.30 Farewell Party Saturday, November 25, 2006 08.00 Breakfast 09.00 Workshops final reports in plenum 10.00 Coffee break 11.00 Conference final conclusions 12.00 Departure. Chères collègues, Nous avons le plaisir de vous faire connaître qu’entre le 23 et le 26 novembre 2006 aura lieu, à Craiova, la deuxième édition du Colloque International d’Ethnologie et Anthropologie AnthropoEst - l’Anthropologie du Sud – Est Européen. Poétiques et Politiques en anthropologie. Organisée par le Musée de l’Olténie – le Département d’Ethnographie, l’Université de Craiova, La Faculté de Lettres et le Centre de la Culture Traditionnelle Dolj avec le support du Conseil du Département Dolj, le but de la deuxième édition de cette conférence est l’extension des débats structuraux de l’édition de 2003 - l’Anthropologie entre la (ré)organisation de l’objet et l’explosion méthodologique – et le développement de la réflexion sur les poétiques / politiques dans le contexte anthropologique de ce que les sociologues appèlent la Nouvelle Europe. Partant des dernières évolutions au niveau politique, social et culturel tant dans le contexte européen que dans le contexte plus large d’un ordre global, fragile et marqué de tensions, le Colloque aimerait devenir une scène pour des analyses anthropologiques pertinentes des formes d’inclusion et d’exclusion de la Nouvelle Europe et de ses efforts de renégocier et d’imposer sa position dans le nouveau contexte dramatique de la civilisation du début du troisième millénaire. L’anthropologie et les anthropologues sont-ils prêts à faire face à la permanente accélération de l’histoire? L’anthropologie du XXI-ème siècle est- elle capable d’offrir les instruments et les solutions pour les sujets complexes comme: la religion et les conflits des civilisations, la lutte contre les terroristes ou la réinvention des « croisades », la gestion du conflit entre les communautés ethniques et multiculturelles, l’extension de L’Union Européenne et l’intégration, le nouveau domaine d’étude de la méthodologie et les nouveaux concepts ethnographiques de „texte” et „contexte”? En vue de couvrir tous ces sujets le Colloque sera organisé en deux sections principales: I. La confrontation avec les dilemmes du XXI-ème siècle : Le bon et vieux continent et La Nouvelle Europe. De nouveau sur l’inclusion et l’exclusion dans la Nouvelle Europe. 1. Relations ethniques, résistance culturelle et société civile. 2. Reconfiguration des cultures. La migration des travailleurs et la construction des groupes ethniques: rituel, narrations, discours et culture matérielle. 3. Le monde des hommes, la puissance des femmes, la culture transculturelle. 4. Corps, incarnation, loi. 5. Lutte contre les terroristes ou les croisades « reloaded » ?. Gestion des religions et des conflits politiques. 6. Management des régions marginales. Formes d’inclusion et d’exclusion dans la Nouvelle Europe. 7. „ Is there anybody out there?”. En « europénisant » l’Est Traditionnel. II. Les écrits anthropologiques. De la rigueur méthodologique à l’essai „académique”. 1. L’utilisation du discours dans les sciences sociales. Hétérodoxie ou Xénoglossie. 2. Ecrire l’Ethnographie du XXI -ème siècle: du terrain au « texte ».Aspects épistémologiques. 3. Langages et représentations dans l’Anthropologie. 4. L’ethnographie virtuelle et l’ethnographie de l’espace virtuel. 5. Culture orale, information transculturelle. 6. Anthropologie et Citoyenneté. Les textes seront soutenus en Anglais ou en Français et les présentations ne doivent pas dépasser 20 minutes. Tous les textes seront publiés dans le journal du Colloque, Symposia. Etudes d’ethnologie et d’anthropologie – 2006. C’est pour cela que les textes qui seront présentés au Colloque, variantes in extenso, doivent être envoyés vers notre conseil éditorial jusqu’au 1 août. Les invités doivent envoyer leurs présentations pour être publiées à l’adresse : Dr. Mihai FIFOR – Manager Général Adina GHERBAN – coordonnatrice de projet Le Musée de l’Olténie 8 Rue Popa Sapca, 200422 Craiova Tel : 0040 251 411 906 Fax : 0040 251 419 351 E-mail : muzeulolteniei at yahoo.com www.muzeulolteniei.ro Les textes, écrits en Anglais ou en Français doivent être originaux, sans avoir été présentés ou publiés auparavant. Les ouvrages ne doivent pas dépasser 9000 de mots. Sur un autre papier il faut écrire le nom de l’auteur et son affiliation académique et le titre de l’ouvrage. Toutes les contributions devront être imprimées sur le format A4, 1,5 interligne. Les notes en bas de page doivent être réduites au minimum . Les notes essentielles doivent être intégrées à la fin de l’article, 1,5 interligne. Les références bibliographiques doivent être marquées entre parenthèses, à l’intérieur du texte (Thomas 1991 :123) La bibliographie présentée en ordre alphabétique va être présentée à la fin de l’article. Thomas K. 1991. La religion et déclin de la magie. London:Penguin Books. Declich, F. 2000. ‘Expérience Sufi dans le rural de Somali. Le focus de la femme’, Social Anthopologie 8,3 : 295-318. Lash, S.and Friedman, J. (eds) 1996. La modernité et l’identité. Oxford:Blackwell. Les Guillemets. Les Guillemets simples sont utilisés pour les citations et les guillemets doubles pour les citations en citations. Les citations plus grandes de 60 mots devront être mises en évidence en laissant un espace libre avant et après la citation. Dans les articles on emploie l’anglais britannique (et non pas l’anglais américain) sauf dans le cas des citations. On utilise –ise et non pas –ize pour la fin des mots. Des frais de participation. Tous les frais de participation, en exceptant les frais de déplacement, seront couverts par les organisateurs. Cependant les organisateurs pourraient prendre en considération le prix du transport pour ceux qui s’enregistrent plus tôt. Taxe de participation. Les organisateurs ne perçoivent pas de taxe de participation. Inscription. En vue de s’inscrire, un seul message contenant un titre provisoire de l’ouvrage, un court résumé (maximum 300 de mots) et l’affiliation académique devront être envoyés aux organisateurs. La date limite pour l’inscription sera le 1 juin 2006. Nous vous prions de participer aux Colloque, votre présence représentant une garantie d’une réunion de succès. Avec considération, Dr. Mihai Fifor, Chercheur, Manager Général du Musée de l’Olténie Le programme du Colloque Mercredi, le 22 novembre 2006 17 h L’arrivée des participants 19h30 Le dîner Jeudi, le 23 novembre 2006 08h Le petit déjeuner 9.h30 L’ouverture officielle du Colloque 10h30 Pause 11h Séance plénière 4h Déjeuner 16h Discussions 17h30 Pause 17h45 Discussions 20h Dîner 21h Gala de film Vendredi, le 24 novembre 2006 08h Le petit déjeuner 09h. Discussions 10h30 Pause 11h. Discussions 12h30 Le tour de la ville 14h30 Déjeuner 16h Discussions 17h30 Pause 18h Conclusions 20h30 Pot de clôture Samedi, le 25 novembre 2006 08h Le petit déjeuner 09h La séance plénière finale 10h Pause 11h Conclusions finales du Colloque 12h La fin du Colloque Damiana OTOIU CEVIPOL - GASPPECO Institut de Sociologie 44, Avenue Jeanne 1050, Bruxelles Tél: +32(0)26503454 +32(0)486604730 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From MonnierN at MISSOURI.EDU Thu Apr 20 14:52:37 2006 From: MonnierN at MISSOURI.EDU (Monnier, Nicole M.) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 09:52:37 -0500 Subject: Thank you for Glazunov! Message-ID: Dear SEELANGStsy, I'd like to give public thanks to all of those who responded to what I assumed was going to be an oddball query. (Atter all, I don't recall having seen either Glazunov or saxophone concertos on the list before!). I was especially impressed by the number of people who went off-list to contact saxophone-playing and musicological friends. THANK YOU. At the risk of sounding saccharine and otherwise goopy, let me say that this is precisely why I love the SEELANGS listserv. Warmly, Nicole ************************************ Nicole Monnier Assistant Professor of Instruction Director of Undergraduate Studies (Russian) German & Russian Studies University of Columbia Columbia, MO 65211 office: 573.882.3370 fax: 573.884.8456 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From benjamin.rifkin at TEMPLE.EDU Thu Apr 20 14:53:01 2006 From: benjamin.rifkin at TEMPLE.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 10:53:01 -0400 Subject: AATSEEL Elections Message-ID: Reminder to AATSEEL Members: Elections for AATSEEL Officers are underway right now. AATSEEL members should go to http://aatseel.org And click on Members Only for access to the ballot. Please vote! Sincerely, Ben Rifkin Past President of AATSEEL -- Benjamin Rifkin Professor of Russian and Vice Dean for Undergraduate Affairs College of Liberal Arts, Temple University 1206 Anderson Hall, 1114 W. Berks St. Philadelphia, PA 19122 USA Voice 215-204-1816 Fax 215-204-3731 www.temple.edu/cla www.temple.edu/fgis/rifkin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From awreynolds at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU Thu Apr 20 19:44:10 2006 From: awreynolds at FACSTAFF.WISC.EDU (=?x-mac-cyrillic?Q?Andrew_Reynolds?=) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 15:44:10 -0400 Subject: AATSEEL-Wisconsin Conference 2006 - Call for Papers Message-ID: *************************************************************** AATSEEL-Wisconsin Conference 21 October 2006 University of Wisconsin-Madison ________________________________________________ Call for papers for the 2006 AATSEEL-Wisconsin Conference Abstracts for twenty-minute papers on any aspect of Slavic literatures and cultures (including film) and on issues in the learning and teaching of Slavic languages and literatures are invited for the annual conference of the Wisconsin chapter of AATSEEL (the American Association of Teachers of Slavic and East European Languages). Comparative topics and interdisciplinary approaches are welcome. The conference will be held at the University of Wisconsin, Madison, on Saturday, 21 October 2006. Recent conference programs and guidelines for preparing abstracts are posted on the AATSEEL-WI website: http://palimpsest.lss.wisc.edu/~danaher/aatseel-wi/ To present a paper at the AATSEEL-WI conference, please submit a proposal by 31 August 2006. A complete proposal consists of: 1. the author's contact information (name, affiliation, postal address, telephone number, and e-mail) 2. paper title 3. 300-500 word abstract 4. equipment request (if necessary). Send proposals by e-mail (no attachments, please) to: Benjamin Jens, bcjens at wisc.edu All submissions will be acknowledged. *************************************************************** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Thu Apr 20 19:58:01 2006 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 11:58:01 -0800 Subject: Seven Steps Over the Horizon In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Can anyone tell me about the Ukrainian "popular science" film "Seven Steps Over the Horizon" made in the 1970s or '80s by F. Soboliev, according to this link: http://www.ukraineinfo.org/main/en/publication/content/303.htm I'm doing a translation that talks about demonstrations of telepathy, then goes on to say that because of his interest in the supernatural, one of the "novellas" - not sure what that means either - of the film "Seven Steps Over the Horizon" was dedicated to the chess player Mikhail Tal. Does anyone know anything about the content of this film or can you explain what is meant by a "novella"? I would have guessed an episode. Sarah Hurst ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From annac at UALBERTA.CA Fri Apr 21 01:31:36 2006 From: annac at UALBERTA.CA (Anna Chilewska) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:31:36 -0600 Subject: grant funding for translations - in Canada In-Reply-To: <1145474388.44468d547eff0@webmail.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, A few of you have asked me to share my (however limited) knowledge of grant funding for translations in Canada. So here it is: When my colleague and I first tried to publish a translation, we have contacted the following organizations: - Canada Council for the Arts http://www.canadacouncil.ca/ (information about publishing grants can be found at this link: http://www.canadacouncil.ca/grants/writing/of127227340679531250.htm) - Research Council of Canada http://www.sshrc.ca/web/home_e.asp and The Association of Canadian Publishers http://www.publishers.ca/publishing-writing-grants.htm Most of these organizations have very strick guidelines in terms of who can and who cannot apply. We were turned down by all. Our next step was to start looking directly into Congresses and Cultural Associations native to the languages from which we were translating. We got lucky with those. So my advise is to look into Russian Congress or Canadian-Russian Culture Association (if there is such in your area) for help in financing translations from or into Russian. Another possibility is to contact publishers directly as there are a few who are interested in publishing translated works. A legthy list can be easily located on the Internet. Overall, translations are very difficult to publish, much less finance in this country (unless they are "Harry Potter" or something similar). I hope this helps a little bit. Best regards, Anna ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET Fri Apr 21 02:41:46 2006 From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2006 19:41:46 -0700 Subject: translations funding In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Try the PEN foundation at www.pen.org. It's only $2,000 though, or at least it was last year. Best, Deborah Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:15:12 -0700 From: Nina Shevchuk Subject: grant funding for translations Dear Colleagues: Please, bear with me: I am sure this topic has come up on this list-serve before, but I can't search the archives from my computer, hence I am forced to rely on your good will with my question. I am looking for a grant to translate/publish a fiction book from Russian. I am aware and will be using the traditional sources of funding for such ventures, such as the NEA. What I am looking for is perhaps referrals to some out-of-the-way funding opportunities that a search for "translation grant funding" would not turn up. I thank you all in advance for your suggestions. Best, Nina Shevchuk-Murray P.S. I'm also shopping for Ukrainian translation funding, but the Russian is more important. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU Sat Apr 22 16:20:38 2006 From: AHRJJ at CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU (Alex Rudd) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 12:20:38 EDT Subject: SEELANGS Administrivia - LISTSERV downtime Message-ID: Dear SEELANGS Members, Please be advised that the LISTSERV server that hosts the SEELANGS list will be down tomorrow, April 23, as we update to a faster server. Expect it to be down starting at 12:00 p.m. New York time until finished, which should be not more than 12 hours, and likely a lot less. Thanks. - Alex, list owner of SEELANGS -- Alex Rudd List owner e-mail: seelangs-request at listserv.cuny.edu Personal e-mail: ahrjj at cunyvm.cuny.edu http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ Any opinion expressed above is not necessarily shared by my employers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at COMCAST.NET Sat Apr 22 20:32:59 2006 From: ggerhart at COMCAST.NET (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 13:32:59 -0700 Subject: Ballet Message-ID: Good Heavens! Where did everybody go? I'm figuring to go to the ballet soon. Who knows the difference between the Mariinsky Ballet and the Imperial Ballet at the Mariinsky? Genevra Gerhart ggerhart at comcast.net www.genevragerhart.com www.russiancommonknowledge.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Sat Apr 22 21:58:11 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 14:58:11 -0700 Subject: Ballet In-Reply-To: <000001c6664b$f365c030$6400a8c0@DB4SFP51> Message-ID: Genevra Gerhart wrote: Good Heavens! Where did everybody go? ......................Maybe they went to the theater too. I'm figuring to go to the ballet soon. Who knows the difference between the Mariinsky Ballet and the Imperial Ballet at the Mariinsky? .............................The Imperial Ballet is the best, I think. Maja Plisezkaja is their "rukovoditel'". This means, sure, a lot... The stars from all over the world take part in their perfomances very often. It's smth in their style or in their aura... it is a little bit different. It is an independent theater, as far as I remember, so maybe this is why they create everything like they want it to be, and Plisezkaja is, sure, a genius! This means, you are lucky if it is exactly the Imperial Ballet! Have a good time! MV --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vinarska at YAHOO.COM Sat Apr 22 22:58:16 2006 From: vinarska at YAHOO.COM (Maryna Vinarska) Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2006 15:58:16 -0700 Subject: Ballet---------correction In-Reply-To: <000001c6664b$f365c030$6400a8c0@DB4SFP51> Message-ID: Genevra Gerhart wrote:the Imperial Ballet at the Mariinsky? .....................Sorry! Plisezkaja is no more its "rukovoditel'". I was told that I forgot how old she is... But for me she is young forever... However, she was one of the founders of this theater, it's for sure. "Rukovoditel'" is an ex-dancer from Bolshoj. Regards, MV --------------------------------- Love cheap thrills? Enjoy PC-to-Phone calls to 30+ countries for just 2¢/min with Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lbeaudoi at DU.EDU Mon Apr 24 03:21:29 2006 From: lbeaudoi at DU.EDU (Luc Beaudoin) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 23:21:29 -0400 Subject: Senior Lecturer Position University of Denver Message-ID: Dear colleagues, The University of Denver is looking for a one-year Senior Lecturer in Russian effective September 1, 2006 (please see below). Please consider applying if you are interested (or forwarding this to someone you think may be interested). And please do not hesitate to contact me off list at lbeaudoi at du.edu with any questions you may have. Thank you! One-Year Senior Lecturer in Russian: nine-month, non-renewable appointment beginning September 2006. Course load of six courses (two per quarter): Russian at all levels and one course on literature in translation. Ability to teach all levels of language, literatures, culture, and general humanities. During the fall quarter this individual will coordinate the Russian section of the department, working in conjunction with the department chair. Native or near-native fluency required, ABD considered, PhD. preferred. Specialization open. In order to be considered an applicant, you must apply online at www.dujobs.org and attach CV and letter of application. Additionally you must send official CV, three letters of recommendation, official transcript, example syllabi and evidence of successful teaching to: Russian Lecturer Search Committee, Prof. Jennifer Pap, Chair, Department of Languages and Literatures, 2000 East Asbury, SH 346, University of Denver, Denver, CO 80208. Review of applications will begin May 5, 2006 and will continue until position is filled. The University of Denver is committed to enhancing the diversity of its faculty and staff and encourages applications from women, minorities, people with disabilities and veterans. DU is an EEO/AA employer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Mon Apr 24 04:43:45 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 21:43:45 -0700 Subject: Russian ethnoborany Message-ID: Dear colleagues, In case anyone is interested in the Russian ethnobotany thread from some time ago, here is a new source: www.pensoft.net/treesubj/n50.stm Cheers, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vroon at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Mon Apr 24 05:27:59 2006 From: vroon at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Ron Vroon) Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2006 22:27:59 -0700 Subject: Workshop on 20th-21st Century Russian Literature and Culture Message-ID: The UCLA Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures at UCLA is pleased to announce a Workshop on 20th and 21st Century Russian Literature and Culture, to be held on Friday, April 28 from 9 AM to 6 PM on the UCLA campus, 1648 Hershey Hall. This is the first of what we hope will be a biennial series of workshops focusing on this time period. Workshop presentations will consist of brief (15-minute) presentations on works in progress followed by an equal period of discussion and debate. We welcome your participation! Ronald Vroon Chair, Slavic Languages & Literatures PROGRAM Friday Morning Session Introductory Remarks (R. Vroon) Session I (9:00 - 12:00): Chair: Alexander Zholkovsky Sally Pratt (USC): Khlebnikov, an Icon Not Made By Human Hands, and a Poem Not Spoken by Human Tongues Susanna Lim (UCLA): East Asia and Russian Symbolism (Ivanov, Bely, Blok) Tom Seifrid (USC): Bulgakov, the Mystery Genre, and Urban Space in Soviet Culture of the 1920s and 1930s Nora Ryan (UCLA): Architects and the Avant-Garde: Communal Housing Designs of the 1920s Alexander Dolinin (U. of Wisconsin): The Problem of Opaque Allusions in Pasternak's Early Poetry John Narins (UCLA): Literary Design and Extraliterary Conduct (the Case of N.M. Oleinikov) Lunch: 12-1 Session II: 1:00 - 3:30 Chair : Alexander Dolinin Vyacheslav Vs. Ivanov (UCLA): Vasilii Grossman's Life and Fate: From Notes of a Military Correspondant to Epic Novel Natal'ia Tikhonova UCLA): The social, psychological and philosophical space in von Sternberg's screen version of Crime and Punishment John Bowlt (USC): Pavel Filonov and the Concept of 'Universal Flowering' Stanislav Shvabrin (UCLA): 'Et j'en sais d'immortels qui sont de purs sanglots...' (Alfred de Musset in Vladimir Nabokov's Eulogy of Vladislav Khodasevich) Lazar Fleishman (Stanford): Above the Barriers: Leonid Pasternak and the Arguments on Jewish Art in early 20th century. 3:30-4:00 Break Session III: 4:00:- 6:00 Chair: Ronald Vroon Alexander Zholkovsky (USC): Issues in Russian Infinitive Poetry with Special Reference to Anna Akhmatova's 'Prosypat'sia na rassvete' David MacFadyen (UCLA): The Problems of Defining Cultural Prominence in Second-World Modernity: On-Line Music Lada Panova (Russian Language Institute, Moscow): Egypt in Russian Silver Age Literature Henryk Baran (SUNY Albany): Problems in the History of the Protocols of Zion ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cosmoschool2 at MAIL.RU Mon Apr 24 15:26:22 2006 From: cosmoschool2 at MAIL.RU (Lena Perova) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 19:26:22 +0400 Subject: PROG: summer camp in SIBERIA Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, Could you please share this information with your students, colleagues and people who may be interested: The COSMOPOLITAN International Language School, located in Novosibirsk, the largest city in Siberia, Russia, is pleased to announce that we still have a few spaces available and are still accepting applications for the "LINKING THE PLANET" International Summer Language Camp, that we are going to run in Novosibirsk region in SIBERIA. The summer camp will be taking place during the summer 2006 in four consecutive two-week sessions, with participation of local Russian children, youth and adults, as well as volunteer teachers and international students from around the globe. The program is a great chance for international participants to learn the Russian language and get a first-hand experience of the Russian culture. It provides the unique cultural opportunity of daily interaction with the Russian children, youth and adults. The RUSSIAN COURSE is organized for overseas students and volunteer teachers and includes language studies as well as learning about the Russian culture, history and society. We are looking for native speakers of English, German, French, Spanish and other languages, who would like to be VOLUNTEER TEACHERS of their language and/or Volunteer Creativity Workshop Coordinators at the summer camp. No previous teaching experience is required. University students are eligible to apply as volunteer teachers/workshop coordinators. Teaching at the camp can also be considered as an INTERNSHIP with all necessary paperwork provided. We are looking for people who are energetic, enthusiastic, open-minded, sociable, enjoy camp experiences, are willing to share their knowledge and culture. We also seek people worldwide (SCHOOLCHILDREN, university STUDENTS, and ADULTS) to join the summer camp as international students of the Russian course and enjoy all the exciting activities scheduled within the program. The major benefits to join our summer program are as follows: 1) We organize an exciting cultural, social and excursion programme for international participants of the camp, which is a very enriching experience. You will be involved in interaction with the Russian children, youth and adults all the time. This is the kind of experience you will never get if you go as a tourist. The camp lives a full cultural and social life. In addition to language and culture studies we also offer sports, intellectual games, quizzes, entertaining activities, shows, performances, presentations, parties, discos, etc. 2) You will gain a first-hand experience of the Russian culture and life style and particularly the Siberian one. They say if you want to know what real Russia is like you should go to Siberia. 3) This is a not-for-profit programme. Participation fee covers expenses on accommodation and ALL meals, and tuition fee for students as well. If you come to Russia (Siberia) on your own or through a travel agency you will spend much more money compared to what you would pay to participate in our programme. Participating in our programme you won't need much pocket money, just maybe some to buy souvenirs and gifts to take back home. All the local services (airport pick-up, local transportation, excursions) are provided by our school without any additional payment. 4) You don't have to be a professional teacher in order to volunteer for the program. The most important aspect is your willingness to participate and share your knowledge and culture, as well as your enthusiasm and good will. Teaching at the camp is not like an academic teaching routine, it's more like fun where emphasis is made on communication. Our school will provide you with the daily topical schedule for the classes and will be happy to assist with lesson planning and teaching materials. University students are eligible to apply as volunteer teachers. You will gain valuable practical experience, proven ability and contacts that you can use to get a future job. 5) International participants attend Russian languages classes every day. Russian classes are taught by well-educated native speakers trained to teach foreigners. Students are placed in a group according to their level of Russian. No previous knowledge of Russian is required. We will also be happy to arrange courses on the Russian culture, history, music, etc., if required. 6) We are dedicated to providing a student with the most excellent supervision possible. All the students are supervised and each group has a group leader who is normally responsible for between 10 - 15 students and stays with the group 24 hours a day. Everyone can expect a warm, supportive and friendly atmosphere along with professional service. Our goal is that a student has the most enjoyable and worthwhile experience possible during the stay with us. We are determined to ensure that everyone benefits fully from the interaction with other students and the staff. The Head of Studies, Psychologist, the Social Program Coordinator and the Program Director are constantly monitoring the program to assure that everyone is enjoying the stay and taking advantage of the many activities offered by the school. Parents are allowed to the program. 7) You will meet people from other countries who are going to participate in this programme and this is a very interesting experience. Many of our former foreign participants keep in touch with each other after the program and even visit each other in all the different countries. 8) We also offer excursion packages which include trips to Moscow, St. Petersburg, Novosibirsk, Krasnoyarsk, Lake Baikal, the Altai Mountains, TransSiberian Railroad, 'Welcome to Siberia' programme. All the details and tour descriptions are available at request. 9) If you are planning a trip to Russia and would like to consider our program you should take into consideration that if you do go to Russia you will need an invitation to receive the Russian visa in any case. All travel agencies and tourist companies charge for an invitation. As far as our program is concerned, you won't have to pay anything extra for the official invitation form that you will need to get the Russian visa. We provide all our foreign participants with the invitation and arrange their registration on arrival. * Have you always wanted to add some meaning to an overseas adventure? * Do you want a new, challenging experience? * Do you like to meet people from other countries and get your energy from working towards a goal as part of a team? * Are you willing to gain experience, improve communication abilities, and develop skills that will help in your future employment? * Have you ever daydreamed about gaining insight into the Russian culture and life in a way no traveler could? If 'yes' is the answer, our program is the best way for you to spend your summer vacation! For further details please email cosmopolitan at online.nsk.su or cosmoschool2 at mail.ru Regards, Natasha Bodrova, Director of International Language School "Cosmopolitan", Novosibirsk, Russia cosmopolitan at online.nsk.su ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU Mon Apr 24 20:38:31 2006 From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (Wayles Browne) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 16:38:31 -0400 Subject: FASL meeting in Toronto? In-Reply-To: <03af01c667b3$a619bf70$6004a4d4@notebook> Message-ID: Is anyone from Pennsylvania, New Jersey or New York State driving to the FASL meeting in Toronto? Will your path take you near Ithaca? One or two people here could use a ride to and/or from Toronto. Will gladly share expenses. Reply (off list) to ewb2 at cornell.edu and win eternal gratitude. -- Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics Department of Linguistics Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nflrc at HAWAII.EDU Mon Apr 24 22:18:57 2006 From: nflrc at HAWAII.EDU (National Foreign Language Resource Center) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2006 12:18:57 -1000 Subject: FINAL REMINDER: Application deadline for the NFLRC Conversation Analysis & Language Learning Seminar - April 30 Message-ID: Our apologies for any cross-postings . . . "CONVERSATION ANALYSIS & LANGUAGE LEARNING" SEMINAR (AUGUST 7-11, 2006) Application deadline (online) - April 30, 2006 http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/prodev/si06c/ Conversation Analysis (CA) is increasingly adopted to examine second language interactions as sites for and evidence of L2 learning as a discursive practice. The purpose of the seminar is to further advance this ongoing effort. Topics will include: interactional competence as resource and under construction, interaction & cognition, interaction & grammar, interaction & learning, and membership categorization & social identity. The seminar does NOT offer an introduction to CA. Rather, it addresses itself to researchers with a background in CA whose work focuses on, or includes, CA as an approach to L2 learning. We hope to welcome veteran CA analysts as well as graduate students with relevant training. The maximum number of accepted participants will be 20. Our invited seminar leaders will be Gabriele Pallotti (University of Modena and Reggio Emilia) & Johannes Wagner (University of Southern Denmark). For more information or the online application form (deadline - April 30, 2006), visit our seminar website: http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/prodev/si06c/ ************************************************************************* N National Foreign Language Resource Center F University of Hawai'i L 1859 East-West Road, #106 R Honolulu HI 96822 C voice: (808) 956-9424, fax: (808) 956-5983 email: nflrc at hawaii.edu VISIT OUR WEBSITE! http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu ************************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From joeramulders at UNAMORE.COM Tue Apr 25 13:45:28 2006 From: joeramulders at UNAMORE.COM (Joera Mulders) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 15:45:28 +0200 Subject: PROG: summer camp in SIBERIA Message-ID: Hoi Stella, Dit is de mail die ik gisteren kreeg, wellicht dezelfde die je al hebt, mischien ook niet... dit seelangs gebeuren is wel grappig om te zien wat er internationaal gebeurt wat betreft linguistische dingen met de russische taal. ik weet niet wat precies je interesses zijn maar hier nog een paar links met berichtgeving in het engels.. http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/default.cfm http://www.untimely-thoughts.com/ http://www.intelligent.ru/ http://www.exile.ru/ http://www.russiaprofile.org/index.wbp Succes Joera ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lena Perova" To: Sent: Monday, April 24, 2006 5:26 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] PROG: summer camp in SIBERIA Dear Colleagues, Could you please share this information with your students, colleagues and people who may be interested: The COSMOPOLITAN International Language School, located in Novosibirsk, the largest city in Siberia, Russia, is pleased to announce that we still have a few spaces available and are still accepting applications for the "LINKING THE PLANET" International Summer Language Camp, that we are going to run in Novosibirsk region in SIBERIA. The summer camp will be taking place during the summer 2006 in four consecutive two-week sessions, with participation of local Russian children, youth and adults, as well as volunteer teachers and international students from around the globe. The program is a great chance for international participants to learn the Russian language and get a first-hand experience of the Russian culture. It provides the unique cultural opportunity of daily interaction with the Russian children, youth and adults. The RUSSIAN COURSE is organized for overseas students and volunteer teachers and includes language studies as well as learning about the Russian culture, history and society. We are looking for native speakers of English, German, French, Spanish and other languages, who would like to be VOLUNTEER TEACHERS of their language and/or Volunteer Creativity Workshop Coordinators at the summer camp. No previous teaching experience is required. University students are eligible to apply as volunteer teachers/workshop coordinators. Teaching at the camp can also be considered as an INTERNSHIP with all necessary paperwork provided. We are looking for people who are energetic, enthusiastic, open-minded, sociable, enjoy camp experiences, are willing to share their knowledge and culture. We also seek people worldwide (SCHOOLCHILDREN, university STUDENTS, and ADULTS) to join the summer camp as international students of the Russian course and enjoy all the exciting activities scheduled within the program. The major benefits to join our summer program are as follows: 1) We organize an exciting cultural, social and excursion programme for international participants of the camp, which is a very enriching experience. You will be involved in interaction with the Russian children, youth and adults all the time. This is the kind of experience you will never get if you go as a tourist. The camp lives a full cultural and social life. In addition to language and culture studies we also offer sports, intellectual games, quizzes, entertaining activities, shows, performances, presentations, parties, discos, etc. 2) You will gain a first-hand experience of the Russian culture and life style and particularly the Siberian one. They say if you want to know what real Russia is like you should go to Siberia. 3) This is a not-for-profit programme. Participation fee covers expenses on accommodation and ALL meals, and tuition fee for students as well. If you come to Russia (Siberia) on your own or through a travel agency you will spend much more money compared to what you would pay to participate in our programme. Participating in our programme you won't need much pocket money, just maybe some to buy souvenirs and gifts to take back home. All the local services (airport pick-up, local transportation, excursions) are provided by our school without any additional payment. 4) You don't have to be a professional teacher in order to volunteer for the program. The most important aspect is your willingness to participate and share your knowledge and culture, as well as your enthusiasm and good will. Teaching at the camp is not like an academic teaching routine, it's more like fun where emphasis is made on communication. Our school will provide you with the daily topical schedule for the classes and will be happy to assist with lesson planning and teaching materials. University students are eligible to apply as volunteer teachers. You will gain valuable practical experience, proven ability and contacts that you can use to get a future job. 5) International participants attend Russian languages classes every day. Russian classes are taught by well-educated native speakers trained to teach foreigners. Students are placed in a group according to their level of Russian. No previous knowledge of Russian is required. We will also be happy to arrange courses on the Russian culture, history, music, etc., if required. 6) We are dedicated to providing a student with the most excellent supervision possible. All the students are supervised and each group has a group leader who is normally responsible for between 10 - 15 students and stays with the group 24 hours a day. Everyone can expect a warm, supportive and friendly atmosphere along with professional service. Our goal is that a student has the most enjoyable and worthwhile experience possible during the stay with us. We are determined to ensure that everyone benefits fully from the interaction with other students and the staff. The Head of Studies, Psychologist, the Social Program Coordinator and the Program Director are constantly monitoring the program to assure that everyone is enjoying the stay and taking advantage of the many activities offered by the school. Parents are allowed to the program. 7) You will meet people from other countries who are going to participate in this programme and this is a very interesting experience. Many of our former foreign participants keep in touch with each other after the program and even visit each other in all the different countries. 8) We also offer excursion packages which include trips to Moscow, St. Petersburg, Novosibirsk, Krasnoyarsk, Lake Baikal, the Altai Mountains, TransSiberian Railroad, 'Welcome to Siberia' programme. All the details and tour descriptions are available at request. 9) If you are planning a trip to Russia and would like to consider our program you should take into consideration that if you do go to Russia you will need an invitation to receive the Russian visa in any case. All travel agencies and tourist companies charge for an invitation. As far as our program is concerned, you won't have to pay anything extra for the official invitation form that you will need to get the Russian visa. We provide all our foreign participants with the invitation and arrange their registration on arrival. * Have you always wanted to add some meaning to an overseas adventure? * Do you want a new, challenging experience? * Do you like to meet people from other countries and get your energy from working towards a goal as part of a team? * Are you willing to gain experience, improve communication abilities, and develop skills that will help in your future employment? * Have you ever daydreamed about gaining insight into the Russian culture and life in a way no traveler could? If 'yes' is the answer, our program is the best way for you to spend your summer vacation! For further details please email cosmopolitan at online.nsk.su or cosmoschool2 at mail.ru Regards, Natasha Bodrova, Director of International Language School "Cosmopolitan", Novosibirsk, Russia cosmopolitan at online.nsk.su ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From djloewen at BINGHAMTON.EDU Tue Apr 25 14:33:50 2006 From: djloewen at BINGHAMTON.EDU (Donald Loewen) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 10:33:50 -0400 Subject: Translation of 'Mustard spoon' ? In-Reply-To: <001c01c6686e$895c0bc0$45fc8418@ouverturck8yky> Message-ID: Could anyone help me with the translation of "gorchichnaia lozhka," a term that seems to be used to measure tiny qualities of medicines? (one-quarter of these seems to be about 1/100th of a teaspoon!) Thanks for any help, onlist or off. Don Loewen -- Donald Loewen Assistant Professor of Russian Dept. of German, Russian and East Asian Languages Binghamton University (SUNY) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at COX.NET Tue Apr 25 21:23:58 2006 From: asred at COX.NET (Steve Marder) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 17:23:58 -0400 Subject: Translation of 'Mustard spoon' ? In-Reply-To: <444E334E.7090002@binghamton.edu> Message-ID: > Could anyone help me with the translation of "gorchichnaia lozhka," a > term that seems to be used to measure tiny qualities of medicines? > (one-quarter of these seems to be about 1/100th of a teaspoon!) > Thanks for any help, onlist or off. > Don Loewen Provisional answer: I would refer to the item as "mustard spoonful" (gorchichnaya lozhechka). I'm not sure of its use in medicine, but in cooking I believe it may be 200 milligrams. Cf. that with "travyanaya lozhechka" = 50 milligrams. Could the measures be the same in medicine? I stress the provisional nature of this reply. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From djloewen at BINGHAMTON.EDU Wed Apr 26 01:02:25 2006 From: djloewen at BINGHAMTON.EDU (Donald Loewen) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2006 21:02:25 -0400 Subject: Translation of 'Mustard spoon' ? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks to all for your responses -- it must be a slow day on SEELANGS if obscure measuring implements dominate the discussion! I do appreciate the clarifications, since none of my traditional sources for answers to this type of question could help. In this instance the spoon is being used to measure some kind of traditional herbal medicine (i.e. dried but not powdered), with the choice being to measure out ca. 20 mg. or 1/4 of a gorchichnaia lozhka, so it seems they're mixing weight and volume. Thankfully it's not anything that I have to take, or provide specific dosage for! With best wishes to all, Don Loewen >> tion of "gorchichnaia lozhka," a >> term that seems to be used to measure tiny qualities of medicines? >> (one-quarter of these seems to be about 1/100th of a teaspoon!) >> Thanks for any help, onlist or off. >> Don Loewen >> > > Provisional answer: > > I would refer to the item as "mustard spoonful" (gorchichnaya lozhechka). > I'm not sure of its use in medicine, but in cooking I believe it may be 200 > milligrams. Cf. that with "travyanaya lozhechka" = 50 milligrams. Could the > measures be the same in medicine? > > I stress the provisional nature of this reply. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM Wed Apr 26 13:30:33 2006 From: n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM (Nina Shevchuk) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 06:30:33 -0700 Subject: apartment in Vilnius etc. Message-ID: Dear Seelangers: I realize, this is not exactly a Baltic languages list, but I thought I'd start here before reaching farther afield. My husband has been awarded a Fulbright grant to do research on investment climate in Lithuania (he's a lawyer...), so we'll be moving to Vilnius at the end of summer. I suspect we will get assistance finding an apartment there, but I thought I'd ask just in case: does anyone know anyone who would be willing to rent us a place for the school year? We have a dog, too, but he is very well behaved. Also, my command of Lithuanian is limited to social phrases, so maybe someone could recommend a good textbook/web resource for that language? Thank you all very much in advance. Please, reply off-list to n_shevchuk at yahoo.com. Best, Nina M. --------------------------------- Yahoo! Mail goes everywhere you do. Get it on your phone. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwilson at ALINGA.COM Wed Apr 26 13:42:47 2006 From: jwilson at ALINGA.COM (Josh Wilson) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:42:47 +0400 Subject: Room Available in Moscow In-Reply-To: <20060426133033.54131.qmail@web30403.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, A room furnished with bed, desk, TV, and DVD player in a shared western-style apartment will be available in Moscow from June 1st to August 31st. It is located near Metro Novokuznetskaya, just over the bridge from the Kremlin, and with walking distance of the Tretyakov Gallery. Rent is $500 per month. The apartment is shared with an American male working in Moscow. Email me off list if you are interested. Josh Wilson Assistant Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies jwilson at sras.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dhh2 at COLUMBIA.EDU Wed Apr 26 15:21:27 2006 From: dhh2 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Diana Howansky) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 11:21:27 -0400 Subject: Talk, book on bilingualism in Ukraine Message-ID: TOMORROW, as its last event of the Spring 2006 semester: The Ukrainian Studies Program at Columbia presents a lecture by Laada Bilaniuk, titled: "LANGUAGE IN THE BALANCE: THE POLITICS OF NON-ACCOMMODATION IN URKAINE" The language question is a poignant issue in Ukraine, as the legal statuses and actual practices of Ukrainian and Russian continue to be contested. In many spheres of interaction, the tensions seem to fade as people speak their preferred language, without accommodating to the language of others. But does this practice of "non-reciprocal" or "non-accommodating" bilingualism ease the conflict over language choice and create equality, or does it continue to propagate tensions and inequalities? In this talk, Laada Bilaniuk explores this issue through analysis of bilingual Ukrainian-Russian television programs, internet forums, and everyday life interactions. She examines the politics of identity and correctness that are inherent in everyday uses of language. Laada Bilaniuk, Assistant Professor of Anthropology at the University of Washington, is the author of Contested Tongues: Language Politics and Cultural Correction in Ukraine (Cornell University Press, 2005). WHEN: Thursday, April 27, 2006 at 12:00 noon WHERE: Room 1219, International Affairs Building, Columbia University, 420 W. 118th St. For more information, please contact Diana at ukrainianstudies at columbia.edu or (212)854-4697. ******* Also, below please find additional information about Laada Bilaniuk's book, Contested Tongues: Language Politics and Cultural Correction in Ukraine: During the controversial 2004 elections that led to the “Orange Revolution” in Ukraine, cultural and linguistic differences threatened to break apart the country. Contested Tongues explains the complex linguistic and cultural politics in a bilingual country where the two main languages are closely related but their statuses are hotly contested. Laada Bilaniuk finds that the social divisions in Ukraine are historically rooted, ideologically constructed, and inseparable from linguistic practice. She does not take the labeled categories as givens but questions what “Ukrainian” and “Russian” mean to different people, and how the boundaries between these categories may be blurred in unstable times. Bilaniuk’s analysis of the contemporary situation is based on ethnographic research in Ukraine and grounded in historical research essential to understanding developments since the fall of the Soviet Union. “Mixed language” practices (surzhyk) in Ukraine have generally been either ignored or reviled, but Bilaniuk traces their history, their social implications, and their accompanying ideologies. Through a focus on mixed language and purism, the author examines the power dynamics of linguistic and cultural correction, through which people seek either to confer or to deny others social legitimacy. The author’s examination of the rapid transformation of symbolic values in Ukraine challenges theories of language and social power that have as a rule been based on the experience of relatively stable societies. “Here in all its immediacy is the changing texture of life in post-Soviet Ukraine, portrayed with the nuance and synthetic breadth that marks the best language-centered accounts of social change. Whether readers come to it with an interest in the shifting grounds of identity and political practice or the social shaping of lanuage ideology and practice, they will be sure to gain much from this rigorous but accessible treatment.” —Joseph Errington, Yale University “Laada Bilaniuk presents linguistic information in a way that makes it accessible to nonspecialists. Contested Tongues will appeal to readers interested in post-Soviet politics and culture, anthropology, political science, sociology, and history, as well as to those who are interested in the processes of language contact, change, politics, and ideology.” —Alexandra Jaffe, California State University, Long Beach For more information on purchasing the book, please contact: Mail: CORNELL UNIVERSITY PRESS, P.0. Box 6525, Ithaca, NY 14851-6525 Phone: 607-277-2211 Fax: 1-800-688-2877 (U.S. and Canada only) Email: orderbook at cupserv.org Web: www.cornellpress.cornell.edu -- Diana Howansky Staff Associate Ukrainian Studies Program Columbia University Room 1208, MC3345 420 W. 118th Street New York, NY 10027 (212) 854-4697 ukrainianstudies at columbia.edu http://www.harrimaninstitute.org/courses/ukrainian_studies_program.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From info at ECHOEE.COM Wed Apr 26 16:11:41 2006 From: info at ECHOEE.COM (Mr. Mykhaylo Biyata) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 20:11:41 +0400 Subject: Summer School of Russian and Ukrainian in Kiev Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, Hope you had a great Easter holidays. Please be advised that there are some places in our Russian and Ukrainian Summer School 2006 in Kiev at the moment. (Brief description of the School program is in enclosure below). Please let us know if participation could be of interest for you or for your friends. If anything in the programme is not convenient for you (dates, prices, etc.) please let us know and we will do our best to find the most appropriate decision. We'll await hearing from you! Sincerely yours, Mikhail Biyata director ECHO Eastern Europe International Centre for Slavic Languages Studies www.echoee.com Enclosure RUSSIAN and UKRAINIAN SUMMER SCHOOL in KYIV 2006 BRIEF ITRODUCTION ECHO Eastern Europe - International Center of Slavic Languages Studies sincerely invites all admirers of Russian and Ukrainian language to the unique SUMMER SCHOOL in KYIV. Kiev the city which the School located in is called the 'father of Russian cities'. At the moment it is a modern European city, which still has elements of the ancient Slavonic culture and architecture. You may find there some modern business centers next to old Orthodox Churches of the 10th Century. For sure the capital of Ukraine could be called one of the friendliest, safety and democracy oriented places on the territory of CIS. The four - week program combines classroom study of the language with activities Russian / Ukrainian skills with native speakers whole day, which is commonly recognized as the best way of intensive language learning. All learning programs are taught in Russian, Ukrainian or both Ukrainian and Russian, depending on what course you have chosen. The teachers have a long lasting experience of instruction for foreigners. All tutors speak English for a better communication. Especially this is important if the student tries to speak Russian / Ukrainian for the first time. Classes are held at the villa of ECHO E E or at lecture-halls of Kyiv Universities which ECHO E E co-operates with. Students are offered a range of cultural activities and excursions designed to immerse them in the Russian and Ukrainian environment. Typical evening activities include outings to the music, cinema, theatres, gym, dance, museums. Weekend excursions include visits to Maydan Nezalezhnosti, Khreshchatik, Kyivo-Pecherska Lavra, Golden Gate, St. Sophia's Cathedral, Andriyivsky Descent, Saint Cyrilo's Church, Pokrova Convent, Mariinsky Palace, Pyrohovo Village etc. RUSSIAN and UKRAINIAN LANGUAGE COURSES The program offers Russian / Ukrainian intensive language instruction at all levels. The following courses are provided: - Elementary RUSSIAN / UKRAINIAN - The principal elements of the language, including reading, writing, speaking, basic grammar and conversation. Emphasis is placed on colloquial language and the ability to converse in Russian / Ukrainian. - Intermediate RUSSIAN / UKRAINIAN - Written and spoken Russian / Ukrainian. More fundamentals of Russian / Ukrainian grammar, with emphasis on oral practice, comprehension and composition. - Advanced RUSSIAN / UKRAINIAN - Advanced Russian / Ukrainian grammar. Russian / Ukrainian roots and word formation. Russian / Ukrainian syntax and composition. Emphasis on vocabulary building, composition, verbal proficiency and vocabulary of Special courses within this track. - Combined RUSSIAN and UKRAINIAN at any level above. Each of these tracks contains Standard courses for language learning - Grammar Learning and Practicing, Free conversations and Phonetics together with Special courses - Mass media, Literature of 19th and 20th century, Poetry: - Mass media - The major goals of the course are to give students a thoughtful view of the mass media language. It is a survey course that studies language peculiarities of newspapers, magazines and television, in addition to a less detailed study of radio, film, and the other forms and issues of mass media; - Cinema and Theater - This course will focus on ideas and stylistic analysis of the language of the Soviet and contemporary Russian / Ukrainian films and theatrical performances. Students will view films and plays, read and discuss material in a variety of genres. - Literature of 19th and 20th century - The study of selected prose and drama works (short stories and novels) by some of the following writers of the nineteenth and twentieth Centuries: Russian: Bulgakov, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Chekhov, Nabokov, Gogol, Turgenev, Solzhenitsyn; Ukrainian: Franko, Vishnya, Zagrebelnyi, Kulish, Kotsiubyns'kyi. Students will read and discuss major authors and texts, will write critical essays on literary topics and develop their Russian / Ukrainian literary language skills. - Poetry - A survey in Russian/ Ukrainian of poets and their works from the early nineteenth century to the present: Russian: Akhmatova, Tsvetayeva, Mandelstam, Pushkin, Lermontov; Ukrainian: Shevchenko, Ukrainka, Kostenko, Chubach, Kotlyarevsky. Emphasis both on analysis and on reading/performance of poetic works. Students will read a variety of literature, see films and theatrical performances related to this fields as wells as be responsible for writing assignments, research, speech and other projects. Also stressed will be grammar, usage, and vocabulary. Placement test is run on the first day of classes to establish prospective students' proficiency level. Grading will be determined on the basis of the final examination. Students having good marks in the final exam will be rewarded an internationally recognized certificate. There are four lessons a day and five days a week. The total amount of the lessons is 80 academic hours per one session + extra curricula activities. If you want to stay for the more than 4 weeks, other Special courses could be provided: - Russian / Ukrainian Culture and Modern Society - Business Russian / Ukrainian (Negotiations, Documentation, Trade Vocabulary, etc.) - Russian / Ukrainian History, Arts, Politics, Music, Folklore, Mythology and other tailor - made programs, if you inform us in advance as for your preferences. UNIQUE FEATURES - Each student may take classes with his personal teachers. For example if there are 3 students at the cottage and each of them would like to learn some different track, the student will be provided with his individual teachers - The student may stay for more weeks while being in Kyiv already. That is very probable having such a friendly and fruitful environment :) - 2 languages could be learned separately or at the same time - Russian, Ukrainian or Russian and Ukrainian at once - Possibility to take advantage from All - inclusive package which is rather new for Russian / Ukrainian Language School - Very competitive level of the tuition, experienced program faculty, individualized learning programs and reasonable fees are general features of the School DATES Kyiv Summer School has 2 sessions - four - weeks each: I. First summer session (year 2006) - May 28 - June 25, 2006 II. Second summer session (year 2006) - July 16 - August 13, 2006 The student may order extra week of education or more while leaving and studding in Ukraine. ACCOMODATION AND PRICES ECHO E E provides two forms of accommodation, which directly influence the cost of the chosen program: 1. Deluxe accommodation at a COTTAGE WITH ALL-INCLUSIVE SERVICES includes: tuition and supervised Individual Study programs, learning materials, accommodation at the comfortable cottage, food and snacks, weekly excursions, laundry, airport transfers (pick up from and to the airport on days of arrival and departure). The prices are as follows: 1.1. Single room = USD 2.400 per 4 weeks 1.2. Double room = USD 2.000 per 4 weeks 2. Accommodation at the HOSTING FAMILY - including accommodation, tuition and airport transfers. 2.1. Price for the 2nd form = USD 1.050 per 4 weeks Both of these variants are suitable ways to encourage using Russian / Ukrainian and immerse in the rhythms of everyday life. And this is up to you choose one of them. CANCELLATION POLICY - If you cancel earlier than 7 weeks to your course, you will be refunded the whole course fee, except the enrolment and services fee of USD 56. - If you cancel 7 weeks (49 days) before the course starts, 50% of the course fee will be refunded. - If you cancel less than 5 weeks (0 - 35 days) before the course starts, the course fee will not be refunded. - If the cancellation less than 5 weeks happened as the result of yours or your relative's health problem and you can prove it by sending the appropriate document to us, only one week of the course fee will not be refunded. DEADLINES EARLY REGISTRATION - till JANUARY 31, 2006 Registered students will have guaranteed acceptance, as the number of spaces is limited. The additional 5% discount will be provided to those who will register before that deadline. LATE REGISTRATION - till MARCH 31, 2006 It is necessary to check the information if we have free spaces. If due to some reasons you would like to register later, you may try to contact us to know if there are any last minute cancellations. ADDITIONAL OPTIONS - If you would like to have more lessons per day for more intensive education while at the Summer School, you may order one or two lessons per day extra - We may arrange excursions to another old and beautiful cities of Ukraine - Lviv (if you would like to practice Ukrainian), Odessa or Sevastopol (if you'd like to practice Russian), Crimea peninsula, Black Sea (if you would like to go to the sea - side and practice mainly Russian) - Other cultural, travels and extreme tours could be provided on your demand as well - Internships for 1 semester or during the year could be provided (especially for Masters of Arts, Post-graduates and Doctors) If you would like to visit our School, please fill in the on-line Application Form on our web-site. We will reply in 2 business days and will be glad to see you in Kiev! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Elena.Levintova at MONTEREY.ARMY.MIL Wed Apr 26 16:12:31 2006 From: Elena.Levintova at MONTEREY.ARMY.MIL (Allison Elena N.) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 09:12:31 -0700 Subject: Translation of 'Mustard spoon' ? Message-ID: May be the following can throw some light on why in certain kinds of documents mixing weight and volume is a norm. According to NIH guidelines, medical documents created with the purpose to explain to patients the details of medical procedures should be written in such a way that they could be understood by people without medical education or without much education. They suggest that the reading skill level of a 6th-grader is the target to bear in mind when one is writing such a document. Due to this, many "informed consent" documents in English contain such phrases as "30 mg (approximately one tablespoonful) of blood will be taken out of a vein in your arm." But since your original document is in Russian, I wonder what kind of document it is (that is, who wrote/ordered it, and for what purpose). Or are you, Donald, by any chance, doing a "back translation" for QC purposes -- a procedure that some translation agencies have in place? Thanks, Elena Elena Levintova Allison (831) 643-0181 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Donald Loewen Sent: Tuesday, April 25, 2006 6:02 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Translation of 'Mustard spoon' ? Thanks to all for your responses -- it must be a slow day on SEELANGS if obscure measuring implements dominate the discussion! I do appreciate the clarifications, since none of my traditional sources for answers to this type of question could help. In this instance the spoon is being used to measure some kind of traditional herbal medicine (i.e. dried but not powdered), with the choice being to measure out ca. 20 mg. or 1/4 of a gorchichnaia lozhka, so it seems they're mixing weight and volume. Thankfully it's not anything that I have to take, or provide specific dosage for! With best wishes to all, Don Loewen >> tion of "gorchichnaia lozhka," a >> term that seems to be used to measure tiny qualities of medicines? >> (one-quarter of these seems to be about 1/100th of a teaspoon!) >> Thanks for any help, onlist or off. >> Don Loewen >> > > Provisional answer: > > I would refer to the item as "mustard spoonful" (gorchichnaya lozhechka). > I'm not sure of its use in medicine, but in cooking I believe it may be 200 > milligrams. Cf. that with "travyanaya lozhechka" = 50 milligrams. Could the > measures be the same in medicine? > > I stress the provisional nature of this reply. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Wed Apr 26 16:40:02 2006 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 12:40:02 -0400 Subject: Translation of 'Mustard spoon' ? In-Reply-To: <97DA6A04F2B3AB4DB1BBE45D34C630E90273EA17@montimb102.nasw.us.army.mil> Message-ID: Elena N. Allison wrote: > May be the following can throw some light on why in certain kinds of > documents mixing weight and volume is a norm. > > According to NIH guidelines, medical documents created with the > purpose to explain to patients the details of medical procedures > should be written in such a way that they could be understood by > people without medical education or without much education. They > suggest that the reading skill level of a 6th-grader is the target to > bear in mind when one is writing such a document. Due to this, many > "informed consent" documents in English contain such phrases as "30 > mg (approximately one tablespoonful) of blood will be taken out of a > vein in your arm." This could well be a cultural difference. American kitchens are well stocked with various devices for measuring the volume of ingredients, and our recipes invariably specify the volume and not the weight. Dry goods such as flour and sugar and liquids such as milk have a consistent, reliable density so either may be confidently specified, whereas e.g. lettuce does not. In contrast, European kitchens and recipes routinely measure certain ingredients by weight, and every cook can be expected to have a scale for the purpose. In the case you cite, I think we have a typo, because in the case of a blood sample, both cultures would specify the volume: "30 ml (appr. one tbsp.)." No phlebotomist would weigh such a sample. As you say, best practices from a pharmacological standpoint would rely only on measuring devices and techniques that all patients are familiar with. If you want a precise measurement of a very small quantity, measure it yourself, put it in a pill, and tell the patient to take nn pills. Don't expect him/her to measure milligrams and such. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From redtaperecorder at GMAIL.COM Wed Apr 26 20:05:06 2006 From: redtaperecorder at GMAIL.COM (tim dukes) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 13:05:06 -0700 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? Message-ID: Hi All, After many years of procrastination I'm finally about to start reading the greatest novel of all time by the great Count Tolstoy. I'll be reading an English translation though and want to make sure that I am reading the best of these. Does anyone have any opinions on this matter? Thanks, Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU Wed Apr 26 21:32:10 2006 From: John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU (Pendergast, J. MAJ DFL) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:32:10 -0400 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? Message-ID: Tim- There was a great article that went a long way toward answering this unanswerable question by David Remnick in the New Yorker in November 2005, called "The Translation Wars," but a cursory search of the internet does not pull it up. In my humble opinion, no translation captures the sense of the Tolstoy original as closely as the one done closest to the source, Louise and Aylmer Maude. The Norton Critical Edition edited by George Gibian and based on the Maude translations also contains an immense amount of interesting background information and critical material. No doubt your post will generate numerous divergent opinions. -John Pendergast -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of tim dukes Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 4:05 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? Hi All, After many years of procrastination I'm finally about to start reading the greatest novel of all time by the great Count Tolstoy. I'll be reading an English translation though and want to make sure that I am reading the best of these. Does anyone have any opinions on this matter? Thanks, Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From seattlesaad at GMAIL.COM Wed Apr 26 21:29:03 2006 From: seattlesaad at GMAIL.COM (=?windows-1251?Q?Saad_Hopkins?=) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 17:29:03 -0400 Subject: Hi! My name is Saad Message-ID: Привет, и спасибо за то, чтобы иметь меня. My name is Saad. I don't speak much Russian, but my mom does. I have joined this list at the suggestion of Julia Hon, a fellow member of the David Foster Wallace list. I hope my ignorance of certain issues doesn't upset anyone, nor do I hope you look down upon me. I'm very interested in translation, and I'm currently taking a class at Seattle Central Community College on the art of writing the research paper. For my topic I have chosen 'Foreign Language in Translation' and would like to hear from anyone who may have any expertise -or otherwise- in this subject; specifically, I would like to hear from people who have had to translate from one language into English, and may have come across the difficulty of translating puns. My official topic/ thesis statement is this: "Everyday hundreds of foreign literatures from all corners of the earth are turning up in the English language. But not all languages lend themselves easily to it. Some languages are obviously FAR more difficult to translate than others. Take a language like Wolof (West African), or even Mandarin; the minor details, such as play on words, double entendres, and especially puns, cannot match meaning word for word, as can say Dutch, or French. What are the gains and losses when translating foreign literature into English, and which languages lend themselves to our tongue easier than others? And on what sort of criteria should the decision of whether or not to omit a passage because of its "untraslatability" be based? I intend (or intend to try, anyhow) to tackle these issues and hopefully answer some of these questions in my research paper on 'Foreign Language Literature in Translation: The Gains and Losses'. In some ways it's a tall order, but I felt it would be good to have interviews with several people as a part of my "sources". If anyone has detailed information based on past experiences in this topic, I would love to interview you either in person (if you live in Seattle), or via email (if you live in Namibia). Большое спасибо, и пожалуйста извините моего shitty русского. Saad ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From redtaperecorder at GMAIL.COM Wed Apr 26 22:02:14 2006 From: redtaperecorder at GMAIL.COM (tim dukes) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:02:14 -0700 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, John. Prior to your recommendation I actually did some online research on the Maudes translation and from my findings I'm beginning to sense that they may be the way to go. I've also read that the Constance Garrett translation is somewhat outdated by today's standards... Tim ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Wed Apr 26 23:04:13 2006 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 15:04:13 -0800 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There is a review in the latest edition of The Atlantic Monthly of the new War & Peace translation by Anthony Briggs. It questions whether there was a need for a new translation that includes some earthy British-style slang for conversations between soldiers. Here's a link, but you have to be a subscriber to see the whole article (or buy the magazine!): http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/prem/200604/tolstoy Sarah Hurst ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at COX.NET Wed Apr 26 23:18:30 2006 From: asred at COX.NET (Steve Marder) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:18:30 -0400 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > After many years of procrastination I'm finally about to start reading the > greatest novel of all time by the great Count Tolstoy. I'll be reading an > English translation though and want to make sure that I am reading the best > of these. Does anyone have any opinions on this matter? I suspect a "War and Peace" translation to look out for is by the wife-and-husband team of Larissa Volokhonsky and Richard Pevear. Unless I've missed something, however, their translation has yet to appear, although I'm reasonably sure they're working on it. Correct me if I'm wrong. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU Thu Apr 27 00:52:18 2006 From: russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU (Russell Valentino) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2006 19:52:18 -0500 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: <200604262304.k3QN47tg019893@iris.acsalaska.net> Message-ID: The David Remnick NY-er piece was in the November 7 number for 2005. It doesn't say a lot about War and Peace specifically, though it does note that it's the next big project of Pevear and Volokhonskaya. It mentions the new Briggs translation (which is not among those I've used in class). It also doesn't make Constance Garnett look so good. And it's entertaining, though not as entertaining as the Smithsonian Magazine piece "Tolstoy does Oprah" by Tom Frank that came out when she picked Anna Karenina for her summer reading selection. It's here -- (http://www.smithsonianmagazine.com/issues/2004/september/lastpage.php). But on topic, I have used the Maude translation, the Garnett, and the Dunnigan. One of our reference librarians at Iowa found an essay for me a couple of years ago (which I've misplaced for the moment) that actually evaluated all the translations then in print (in the 1990s, I believe) and concluded that the Dunnigan was the best. It wasn't that different, in my opinion, from the others. One troubling aspect of the Maude translation is the use of chapter headings that provide synopses of the content, e.g., "Natasha, at the opera, is seduced by the marble shoulders of the beautiful Helene," "Prince Andrew's wound opens (again)," and so on, or something like that. Not only are these not in the original, they're the wrong period for English lit. But the Norton apparatus is otherwise useful. I'll teach Tolstoevsky again in fall and will have to decide which to use this time around, so I'm interested to hear other thoughts. Russell Valentino ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Thu Apr 27 05:52:16 2006 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 06:52:16 +0100 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: <1146099138.445015c25eddc@webmail1.its.uiowa.edu> Message-ID: Dear all, Russell Valentino writes: > The David Remnick NY-er piece was in the November 7 number for 2005. It > doesn't say a lot about War and Peace specifically, though it does note that > it's the next big project of Pevear and Volokhonskaya. It mentions the new > Briggs translation (which is not among those I've used in class). Briggs's is a good translation. >It also doesn't make Constance Garnett look so good. And it's entertaining, I was struck more by the cheapness of the numerous jeers at Constance Garnett. She was a highly intelligent lady, with both courage and judgment. While retranslating various C19 stories for my Penguin Classics anthology, I usually had four or five previous translations open on my desk. Hers was almost always the best, both in terms of accuracy and in terms of preserving the 'foreignness' of the original. Yes, her dialogue is often stiff, but that criticism can be made of many other translators, including recent ones. Best wishes, Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From donna.orwin at UTORONTO.CA Thu Apr 27 14:35:32 2006 From: donna.orwin at UTORONTO.CA (Donna Orwin) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 10:35:32 -0400 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I agree with Rob Chandler that the David Remnick article was unfair to Constance Garnett. The Remnick article also represents the very good Pevear/Volokhonsky translation of Anna Karnenina as the only worthwhile one available. It's not. I refer you to Hugh McLean's outstanding article on the subject ("Which English Anna?") in the 2001 issue Tolstoy Studies Journal and a follow-up discussion in the 2002 issue by Carol Flath and Richard Sheldon, with a response by McLean. McLean compares 7 translations, all still in print. Neither he nor the other two critics find the new Pevear/Volokhonsky translation to be unequivocally better than certain other ones, and both McLean and Flath have high praise for the Garnett translation revised by Kent and Berberova (Modern Library). For those interested, the 2002 TSJ also contains an article by A.D.P. Briggs about his translation of War and Peace. All the best, Donna Orwin ---------------------------- Prof. Donna Tussing Orwin President, Tolstoy Society Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Toronto Alumni Hall 415 121 St. Joseph St. Toronto. ON M5S 1J4 Tel. 416-926-1300. ext. 3316 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 1:52 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? Dear all, Russell Valentino writes: > The David Remnick NY-er piece was in the November 7 number for 2005. It > doesn't say a lot about War and Peace specifically, though it does note that > it's the next big project of Pevear and Volokhonskaya. It mentions the new > Briggs translation (which is not among those I've used in class). Briggs's is a good translation. >It also doesn't make Constance Garnett look so good. And it's entertaining, I was struck more by the cheapness of the numerous jeers at Constance Garnett. She was a highly intelligent lady, with both courage and judgment. While retranslating various C19 stories for my Penguin Classics anthology, I usually had four or five previous translations open on my desk. Hers was almost always the best, both in terms of accuracy and in terms of preserving the 'foreignness' of the original. Yes, her dialogue is often stiff, but that criticism can be made of many other translators, including recent ones. Best wishes, Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mdenner at STETSON.EDU Thu Apr 27 18:12:18 2006 From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU (Michael Denner) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:12:18 -0400 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? Message-ID: The upcoming (2006) Tolstoy Studies Journal will have an article by Hugh McLean, reviewing Briggs' translation. For what it's worth, I thought the review (of Briggs' translation) in The Atlantic was wretched and petty. I'm not aware Simpson reads Russian or even did much homework. Her cavils struck me as beside the point -- an excuse to make a few passing light observations on Tolstoy, not a real assessment of a translation's worth. I believe the doughy duo of Pevear/Volkhonksy are also at work on a W&P translation. Best, mad ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Dr. Michael A. Denner Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal Director, University Honors Program Contact Information: Russian Studies Program Stetson University Campus Box 8361 DeLand, FL 32720-3756 386.822.7381 (department) 386.822.7265 (direct line) 386.822.7380 (fax) www.stetson.edu/~mdenner -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Donna Orwin Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:36 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? Dear Colleagues, I agree with Rob Chandler that the David Remnick article was unfair to Constance Garnett. The Remnick article also represents the very good Pevear/Volokhonsky translation of Anna Karnenina as the only worthwhile one available. It's not. I refer you to Hugh McLean's outstanding article on the subject ("Which English Anna?") in the 2001 issue Tolstoy Studies Journal and a follow-up discussion in the 2002 issue by Carol Flath and Richard Sheldon, with a response by McLean. McLean compares 7 translations, all still in print. Neither he nor the other two critics find the new Pevear/Volokhonsky translation to be unequivocally better than certain other ones, and both McLean and Flath have high praise for the Garnett translation revised by Kent and Berberova (Modern Library). For those interested, the 2002 TSJ also contains an article by A.D.P. Briggs about his translation of War and Peace. All the best, Donna Orwin ---------------------------- Prof. Donna Tussing Orwin President, Tolstoy Society Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Toronto Alumni Hall 415 121 St. Joseph St. Toronto. ON M5S 1J4 Tel. 416-926-1300. ext. 3316 -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 1:52 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? Dear all, Russell Valentino writes: > The David Remnick NY-er piece was in the November 7 number for 2005. It > doesn't say a lot about War and Peace specifically, though it does note that > it's the next big project of Pevear and Volokhonskaya. It mentions the new > Briggs translation (which is not among those I've used in class). Briggs's is a good translation. >It also doesn't make Constance Garnett look so good. And it's entertaining, I was struck more by the cheapness of the numerous jeers at Constance Garnett. She was a highly intelligent lady, with both courage and judgment. While retranslating various C19 stories for my Penguin Classics anthology, I usually had four or five previous translations open on my desk. Hers was almost always the best, both in terms of accuracy and in terms of preserving the 'foreignness' of the original. Yes, her dialogue is often stiff, but that criticism can be made of many other translators, including recent ones. Best wishes, Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU Thu Apr 27 18:23:18 2006 From: greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Svetlana Grenier) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:23:18 -0400 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Michael Denner wrote: >I believe the doughy duo of Pevear/Volkhonksy are also at work on a W&P >translation. > > > Excuse me, are you referring ("doughy") to the windfall from the Anna Karenina translation or to something else? Svetlana Grenier Georgetown U. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU Thu Apr 27 18:27:12 2006 From: pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (Peter Scotto) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:27:12 -0400 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It was my strong impression that she does not read Russian, and that her criticism was based on some sort of intuitive and superior literary sensibility that she believed she possessed. I entirely agree with your assessment of her review. (It's weird, huh? They've got Marshall Poe working on the staff of the Atlantic, and they farm the review out to some writing-program ... type.) Peter Scotto Mount Holyoke College > The upcoming (2006) Tolstoy Studies Journal will have an article by Hugh > McLean, reviewing Briggs' translation. > > For what it's worth, I thought the review (of Briggs' translation) in > The Atlantic was wretched and petty. I'm not aware Simpson reads Russian > or even did much homework. Her cavils struck me as beside the point -- > an excuse to make a few passing light observations on Tolstoy, not a > real assessment of a translation's worth. > > I believe the doughy duo of Pevear/Volkhonksy are also at work on a W&P > translation. > > Best, > mad > ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* > Dr. Michael A. Denner > Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal > Director, University Honors Program > > Contact Information: > Russian Studies Program > Stetson University > Campus Box 8361 > DeLand, FL 32720-3756 > 386.822.7381 (department) > 386.822.7265 (direct line) > 386.822.7380 (fax) > www.stetson.edu/~mdenner > > -----Original Message----- > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Donna Orwin > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 10:36 AM > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All > Time? > > Dear Colleagues, > > I agree with Rob Chandler that the David Remnick article was unfair to > Constance Garnett. The Remnick article also represents the very good > Pevear/Volokhonsky translation of Anna Karnenina as the only worthwhile > one available. It's not. I refer you to Hugh McLean's outstanding > article on the subject ("Which English Anna?") in the 2001 issue Tolstoy > Studies Journal and a follow-up discussion in the 2002 issue by Carol > Flath and Richard Sheldon, with a response by McLean. McLean compares 7 > translations, all still in print. Neither he nor the other two critics > find the new Pevear/Volokhonsky translation to be unequivocally better > than certain other ones, and both McLean and Flath have high praise for > the Garnett translation revised by Kent and Berberova (Modern Library). > > For those interested, the 2002 TSJ also contains an article by A.D.P. > Briggs about his translation of War and Peace. > > All the best, > > Donna Orwin > > ---------------------------- > Prof. Donna Tussing Orwin > President, Tolstoy Society > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Toronto > Alumni Hall 415 > 121 St. Joseph St. > Toronto. ON M5S 1J4 > Tel. 416-926-1300. ext. 3316 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler > Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 1:52 AM > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All > Time? > > Dear all, > > Russell Valentino writes: > > The David Remnick NY-er piece was in the November 7 number for 2005. > It > > doesn't say a lot about War and Peace specifically, though it does > note that > > it's the next big project of Pevear and Volokhonskaya. It mentions the > new > > Briggs translation (which is not among those I've used in class). > Briggs's is a good translation. > > >It also doesn't make Constance Garnett look so good. And it's > entertaining, > I was struck more by the cheapness of the numerous jeers at Constance > Garnett. She was a highly intelligent lady, with both courage and > judgment. > While retranslating various C19 stories for my Penguin Classics > anthology, I > usually had four or five previous translations open on my desk. Hers > was > almost always the best, both in terms of accuracy and in terms of > preserving > the 'foreignness' of the original. Yes, her dialogue is often stiff, > but > that criticism can be made of many other translators, including recent > ones. > > Best wishes, > > Robert > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From papazian at WAM.UMD.EDU Thu Apr 27 18:48:39 2006 From: papazian at WAM.UMD.EDU (Elizabeth A. Papazian) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 14:48:39 -0400 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: <000001c66a07$d7586e50$6400a8c0@IBMDorwin> Message-ID: Dear all, Constance Garnett's translation of Anna Karenina might be thought of as the "gateway drug" for those of us addicted to Russian literature. It was the translation I found up in the attic among my mom's college books, as well as in the family room among my dad's. In fact I thought the image of Constance Garnett in Remnick's article to be quite lovely: there she sits in the garden, ripping off sheets of translated material and throwing them into the "done" pile at her feet. It is Nabokov who is cruel to Garnett, if I recall correctly. Remnick, I thought, does provide a more loving portrait. Best, EP On 27 Apr 2006, at 10.35am, Donna Orwin wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I agree with Rob Chandler that the David Remnick article was unfair to > Constance Garnett. Elizabeth A. Papazian Assistant Professor of Russian School of Languages 3215 Jimenez Hall University of Maryland College Park, MD 20742 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Thu Apr 27 18:40:21 2006 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 10:40:21 -0800 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: <1146162432.44510d009f817@mist.mtholyoke.edu> Message-ID: I have no opinion about the review because I haven't actually read the Briggs translation, but Mona Simpson wrote the introduction to an edition of the Constance Garnett translation of Tolstoy, and she's a novelist rather than a "writing-program type". I just think that attacking the messenger is somewhat weak, sorry. Sarah Hurst ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mdenner at STETSON.EDU Thu Apr 27 20:51:05 2006 From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU (Michael Denner) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 16:51:05 -0400 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? Message-ID: About the doughy duo... I meant doughty (resolute), but somewhere the 't' got lost in... I'll blame spell check. (I like the absurdity of the image of a doughy duo, though.) And 'attacking' the 'messenger' is certainly fair game: If you don't know a language WELL and don't, in any substantive way, discuss the generally recognized criteria for a translation, then you've written a bad review. Best, mad ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Dr. Michael A. Denner Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal Director, University Honors Program Contact Information: Russian Studies Program Stetson University Campus Box 8361 DeLand, FL 32720-3756 386.822.7381 (department) 386.822.7265 (direct line) 386.822.7380 (fax) www.stetson.edu/~mdenner -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Sarah Hurst Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 2:40 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? I have no opinion about the review because I haven't actually read the Briggs translation, but Mona Simpson wrote the introduction to an edition of the Constance Garnett translation of Tolstoy, and she's a novelist rather than a "writing-program type". I just think that attacking the messenger is somewhat weak, sorry. Sarah Hurst ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Thu Apr 27 20:57:10 2006 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 12:57:10 -0800 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And 'attacking' the 'messenger' is certainly fair game: If you don't know a language WELL and don't, in any substantive way, discuss the generally recognized criteria for a translation, then you've written a bad review. Best, mad There's a big difference between an academic journal that has generally recognized criteria and a popular magazine like The Atlantic Monthly, which can take whatever angle it likes. I have no idea if Mona Simpson knows Russian, but obviously she has a long-time interest in Russian literature, and her approach was to read the translation from the point of view of an English-speaking reader. Since translations are aimed specifically at English-speaking readers who generally do not know Russian, it's perfectly valid for them to give their opinions on how readable the text is. I've reviewed all kinds of books myself in various genres for various publications, some on topics where I was very knowledgeable and others where I wasn't, but my reviews were based on a careful reading of the book in question, and provided comments based on which potential readers could decide whether or not it was worth their while reading the book. Sarah Hurst ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU Thu Apr 27 21:26:23 2006 From: pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (Peter Scotto) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:26:23 -0400 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: <200604272057.k3RKv2UB050696@malik.acsalaska.net> Message-ID: I hasten to point out that being a "writing-program type" and a "novelist" are not mutually exclusive in this day and age. All sorts of people get to write introductions for all sorts of reasons. The impression that her review produced on me was that of a self-satisfied litterateur attacking a translation from a language that she herself did not know. Apparently, it produced that impression on others. Reader respnse, what? Peter Scotto Mount Holyoke College ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU Thu Apr 27 21:31:58 2006 From: pscotto at MTHOLYOKE.EDU (Peter Scotto) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 17:31:58 -0400 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: <1146173183.445136ffe7b19@mist.mtholyoke.edu> Message-ID: Ha! It turns out she has an MFA from Columbia. So, objectively, she is a "writing program" type, unlike say, Lev Nikolaevich. Peter Scotto ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Thu Apr 27 23:24:48 2006 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2006 15:24:48 -0800 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: <1146173518.4451384e7cf6a@mist.mtholyoke.edu> Message-ID: That's great, you've scored a point against her for her qualification. It's a shame Russian literature experts can't be a bit more welcoming of some mainstream media publicity for the debate over translations of Tolstoy, instead of dissing someone who's gone to the trouble of reading the new translation and comparing it with another one for the purposes of informing the general reader. Sarah Hurst -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Peter Scotto Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2006 1:32 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? Ha! It turns out she has an MFA from Columbia. So, objectively, she is a "writing program" type, unlike say, Lev Nikolaevich. Peter Scotto ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU Fri Apr 28 06:04:05 2006 From: russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU (Russell Valentino) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 01:04:05 -0500 Subject: The Best WAR & PEACE English Translation of All Time? In-Reply-To: <200604272057.k3RKv2UB050696@malik.acsalaska.net> Message-ID: Quoting Sarah Hurst : > There's a big difference between an academic journal that has generally > recognized criteria and a popular magazine like The Atlantic Monthly, which > can take whatever angle it likes. I have no idea if Mona Simpson knows > Russian, but obviously she has a long-time interest in Russian literature, > and her approach was to read the translation from the point of view of an > English-speaking reader. Since translations are aimed specifically at > English-speaking readers who generally do not know Russian, it's perfectly > valid for them to give their opinions on how readable the text is. > > Sarah Hurst This is an essential consideration for reviewers of translations. It's also rhetoric 101: know your audience. A review for the Des Moines Register is not the same as one for the Translation Review, let alone Context, or SEEJ. The Atlantic Monthly's review policies became somewhat notorious with Benjamin Schwarz's Jan/Feb 2004 article "Why We Review the Books We Do," where he made it clear that AM tends not to review translations because of the difficulty they pose for focusing on the author's prose style. Attack the policy all you like (plenty have), but it clearly indicates that the publication is not interested in questions of translation per se, and a reviewer who focused on such questions would be unlikely to find a home for her/his work there. They are by far not alone. In an ATA essay from July 2005, Anne Milano Appel noted that there seem to be three basic review rubrics for translated literature (translation-blind, translation-aware, and translation-sensitive). The essay's here: http://www.biblit.it/Pages%20from%20August%20Chronicle.pdf. It's a helpful essay, but in the end, she seems to throw up her hands, leaving unarticulated what is a relatively simple rhetorical solution: there are different review strategies for different venues. Russell Valentino ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From maberdy at ONLINE.RU Fri Apr 28 07:33:44 2006 From: maberdy at ONLINE.RU (=?windows-1251?Q?Michele_A_Berdy?=) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 03:33:44 -0400 Subject: simpson, garnett, p/v Message-ID: Colleagues: I also read Mona Simpson’s “review” of Anthony Brigg’s War and Peace, and I must respectfully disagree with Ms. Hurst. In fact I wrote a cranky letter to the editors about it. Yes, it’s important to pay attention to the English text, since that’s what people hold in their hands. But it’s a translation! All Mona Simpson does is compare English texts and tell us which appeals to her – but the question is does Briggs capture the original better or worse than others? She has no idea. I agree with those who wrote to defend Constance Garnett’s translations. Yes, she smoothes out the rough parts and her translation strategy is outmoded today, but when you actually sit and compare her translations to others, you discover that she didn’t make many mistakes of meaning. And she translated 70 volumes! Without a computer, or the dozens of dictionaries we have today, or the thousands of academic analyses of authors and genres, or internet forums and instant e-mail queries to colleagues. And she was the first to translate these works in most cases - - unlike Pevear, who explicitly admits to using other translations as guides. I live in Moscow and was slow to pick up on the P/V phenomenon. But I got curious and ordered all their translations. A Russian colleague and I spent about 8 months analyzing them and just published an article in Russian about them and their work in a Russian translation journal (a short version will soon be posted on a Russian site). What we found is that they are utterly inconsistent in translation strategy (sometimes literalist, sometimes not); use a mishmash of modern and archaic language (sometimes in one bit of dialogue); fail to understand the Russian (the texts are riddled with errors of comprehension of words, phrases and stylistic devices); are consistently unable to reproduce interjections (“How-what?”); have a tin ear for dialogue; and produce English so bizarre that when my colleague would send me text messages of snippets of their translations from his dacha, I would accuse him of making them up. “Drank up his pants” is one of the most egregious examples. If you didn’t know Russian, would you know what that means? Using a strange expression in English would be justified if it were a strange expression in Russian, but it isn’t – it’s an absolutely run of the mill expression that means the fellow pawned his trousers to buy booze. We’ll be doing an English-language version (or perhaps two for different audiences), hopefully within the next couple of months. I spotted the articles in the Tolstoy journal that colleagues mentioned and sent an email trying to get copies. No luck. Can someone advise me how one might get a hold of them from Moscow? Best Mickey Berdy ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cn29 at COLUMBIA.EDU Fri Apr 28 15:44:56 2006 From: cn29 at COLUMBIA.EDU (cn29 at COLUMBIA.EDU) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:44:56 -0400 Subject: Jane Austen in Russia? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, I'm writing to see if any of you have come across "traces" of Jane Austen in Russia in the nineteenth century. I'm aware of (and have contributed to) the speculations about Evgeny Onegin and Pride and Prejudice, but I'm looking for any evidence that anyone (writers, critics, general intellectuals, etc.) read Jane Austen in Russia in the nineteenth century. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please reply off-list to cn29 at columbia.edu. Best wishes, Cathy Nepomnyashchy ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Fri Apr 28 16:25:23 2006 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 08:25:23 -0800 Subject: simpson, garnett, p/v In-Reply-To: Message-ID: - Yes, the article compares the English texts and Simpson tells us what appeals to her - that is the point of the article. It doesn't attempt to do anything else, although it does mention that in terms of the style of the period, more florid and old-fashioned English prose may be more appropriate than modern slang. Sarah Hurst I also read Mona Simpson's "review" of Anthony Brigg's War and Pe ace, and I must respectfully disagree with Ms. Hurst. In fact I wrote a cranky letter to the editors about it. Yes, it's important to pay attention t o the English text, since that's what people hold in their hands. But it 's a translation! All Mona Simpson does is compare English texts and tell u s which appeals to her - but the question is does Briggs capture the original better or worse than others? She has no idea. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU Fri Apr 28 16:34:56 2006 From: sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU (Sibelan E S Forrester) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 12:34:56 -0400 Subject: A Kuzmin question Message-ID: Dear SEELANGtsy, Is Kuzmin's WINGS available anywhere in English translation (for use in classroom teaching)? Please reply offlist to . SF ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mdenner at STETSON.EDU Fri Apr 28 17:48:58 2006 From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU (Michael Denner) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 13:48:58 -0400 Subject: Jane Austen in Russia? Message-ID: Dear Cathy Nepomnyashchy, I know you said off-list, but this question intrigues me. I am a devotee of Austen, and have always been intrigued by the total ignorance of her oeuvre in Russia in the 19th century. Here's my take, which I predict will be proven wrong and thoroughly reviled by the list, but it's a way to start the conversation. I do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of everything Leo Tolstoy wrote, and I don't have at hand the last volume of the PSS, or to the list of books in his library. But I never recall Tolstoy mentioning Austen. This should throw up a red flag: Tolstoy was very aware of the British literary scene, and felt a great deal of kinship with his colleagues on the other side of Europe. (Enough to steal quite a lot directly from Dickens.) I feel confident in saying that Tolstoy was likely among the best read individuals in Russia during the last half of the century (and the first decade of this one). I certainly doubt there were many who rivaled his knowledge of European literature. However, he seemed to be entirely unaware of Austen. But this is not accidental. Austen's literary fame was largely welded during the first three decades of the twentieth century. She was largely disliked during the nineteenth: Twain and Bronte famously mocked her, as any biography of Austen will tell you. Some minor lights of the age found her passably interesting, but generally she lay forgotten with authors like Fanny Burney. I imagine that her witty, subtle and cool observations did not meet with approval given the literary tastes of most of the century in Europe. My impression: The Bloomsbury group is largely responsible for the very high esteem that she has enjoyed during the last century. They made her vogue, and if you think about it for a while, it makes sense. (It is interesting that it is also the Bloomsbury group who made Tolstoy the most writerly of writers.) Best, mad ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Dr. Michael A. Denner Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal Director, University Honors Program Contact Information: Russian Studies Program Stetson University Campus Box 8361 DeLand, FL 32720-3756 386.822.7381 (department) 386.822.7265 (direct line) 386.822.7380 (fax) www.stetson.edu/~mdenner -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of cn29 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:45 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Jane Austen in Russia? Dear Seelangers, I'm writing to see if any of you have come across "traces" of Jane Austen in Russia in the nineteenth century. I'm aware of (and have contributed to) the speculations about Evgeny Onegin and Pride and Prejudice, but I'm looking for any evidence that anyone (writers, critics, general intellectuals, etc.) read Jane Austen in Russia in the nineteenth century. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please reply off-list to cn29 at columbia.edu. Best wishes, Cathy Nepomnyashchy ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Fri Apr 28 18:28:37 2006 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 11:28:37 -0700 Subject: Jane Austen in Russia? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 28 April '06 Galina Alexeeva (galalexeeva at tula.net), Research Director of the Museum-Estate of Tolstoy in Yasnaya Polyana, has done extensive research on Tolstoy's awareness of English literature. Her English is fluent, and she can put her hands on the very books Tolstoy read right there in his personal library in Yasnaya. Cheers, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere PS. Note today's date. Tolstoy would have. He was born on 28 August 1828, and he had a superstitious attitude toward the number "28." Michael Denner wrote: >Dear Cathy Nepomnyashchy, >I know you said off-list, but this question intrigues me. I am a devotee >of Austen, and have always been intrigued by the total ignorance of her >oeuvre in Russia in the 19th century. > >Here's my take, which I predict will be proven wrong and thoroughly >reviled by the list, but it's a way to start the conversation. > >I do not have an encyclopedic knowledge of everything Leo Tolstoy wrote, >and I don't have at hand the last volume of the PSS, or to the list of >books in his library. But I never recall Tolstoy mentioning Austen. This >should throw up a red flag: Tolstoy was very aware of the British >literary scene, and felt a great deal of kinship with his colleagues on >the other side of Europe. (Enough to steal quite a lot directly from >Dickens.) I feel confident in saying that Tolstoy was likely among the >best read individuals in Russia during the last half of the century (and >the first decade of this one). I certainly doubt there were many who >rivaled his knowledge of European literature. However, he seemed to be >entirely unaware of Austen. > >But this is not accidental. > >Austen's literary fame was largely welded during the first three decades >of the twentieth century. She was largely disliked during the >nineteenth: Twain and Bronte famously mocked her, as any biography of >Austen will tell you. Some minor lights of the age found her passably >interesting, but generally she lay forgotten with authors like Fanny >Burney. I imagine that her witty, subtle and cool observations did not >meet with approval given the literary tastes of most of the century in >Europe. > >My impression: The Bloomsbury group is largely responsible for the very >high esteem that she has enjoyed during the last century. They made her >vogue, and if you think about it for a while, it makes sense. (It is >interesting that it is also the Bloomsbury group who made Tolstoy the >most writerly of writers.) > >Best, >mad >~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* > Dr. Michael A. Denner > Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal > Director, University Honors Program > > Contact Information: > Russian Studies Program > Stetson University > Campus Box 8361 > DeLand, FL 32720-3756 > 386.822.7381 (department) > 386.822.7265 (direct line) > 386.822.7380 (fax) > www.stetson.edu/~mdenner > >-----Original Message----- >From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list >[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of cn29 at COLUMBIA.EDU >Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 11:45 AM >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: [SEELANGS] Jane Austen in Russia? > >Dear Seelangers, > >I'm writing to see if any of you have come across "traces" of Jane >Austen in Russia in the nineteenth century. I'm aware of (and have >contributed to) the speculations about Evgeny Onegin and Pride and >Prejudice, but I'm looking for any evidence that anyone (writers, >critics, general intellectuals, etc.) read Jane Austen in Russia in >the nineteenth century. Any help would be greatly appreciated. >Please reply off-list to cn29 at columbia.edu. Best wishes, Cathy >Nepomnyashchy > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kuchar at ROANOKE.EDU Fri Apr 28 18:59:34 2006 From: kuchar at ROANOKE.EDU (=?windows-1251?Q?Martha_Kuchar?=) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 14:59:34 -0400 Subject: Message-ID: Can anyone suggest how to translate the word "музицирование" (sic [I think]) as is "камерное музицирование"? This is from a pianist's bio. Thanks! Martha ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Fri Apr 28 19:29:07 2006 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:29:07 -0400 Subject: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=AC=C3=B3=C3=A7=C3=BB=C3=B6=C3=A8=C3=B0=C3=AE=C3=A2=C3=A0=C3=AD=C3=A8=C3=A5?= In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Giving private concerts," "playing for a small circle." -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Martha Kuchar Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:00 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] музыцирование Can anyone suggest how to translate the word "музицирование" (sic [I think]) as is "камерное музицирование"? This is from a pianist's bio. Thanks! Martha ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU Fri Apr 28 19:34:46 2006 From: John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU (Pendergast, J. MAJ DFL) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:34:46 -0400 Subject: =?koi8-r?Q?=CD=D5=DA=D9=C3=C9=D2=CF=D7=C1=CE=C9=C5?= Message-ID: "Music-making" and "concertizing" are also possibilities, depending on the overall context. Incidentally, the spelling музицирование (with soft и rather than hard ы) IS correct; not sure why. -John -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Martha Kuchar Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:00 PM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] музыцирование Can anyone suggest how to translate the word "музициров= ание" (sic [I think]) as is "камерное музицирован= ие"? This is from a pianist's bio. Thanks! Martha ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From N20JACK at AOL.COM Sat Apr 29 03:33:54 2006 From: N20JACK at AOL.COM (N20JACK at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 23:33:54 EDT Subject: Looking for Akishina Book Message-ID: Seelangers: Does anyone know where the book V Rossiyu s lyubov'yu can be purchased? I was given the book by the author in 2000 in Moscow but have been unable to find it in the US. Thanks, ********************************** Jack Franke, Ph.D., Professor of Russian Coordinator, Russian Department B European and Latin American School Defense Language Institute Foreign Language Center Monterey, CA 93944 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From maberdy at ONLINE.RU Sat Apr 29 07:19:05 2006 From: maberdy at ONLINE.RU (=?windows-1251?Q?Michele_A_Berdy?=) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:19:05 -0400 Subject: atlantic monthly review Message-ID: I did get on line and read the Atlantic explanation of book review policy, and, as you say, they don't ban reviews of translated works from their pages, but they note that they run "fewer reviews" than other comparable publications. In that same issue is a review of a new translation of Don Quixote. Although the reviewer does seem to know Spanish, he doesn't write much about the translation or focus on the language in English; he says the superb new translation is good reason to reread the book, and here's what you'll find -- and then follows the focus of the piece, a cheerful cajoling of the reader to pick up the book. But Mona Simpson's "review" focused in large part on the language of the English translation itself. And it's bizarre to do that without any touch point for the comparisons and judgments she makes -- the touch point being the original language of the novel. Okay, it's tilting at windmills to fight this, but... editorial and broadcast policies do change under concerted pressure. This is not quite the same thing, but even here in Russia, which is not exactly a model of bottom-to-top, civil society, grassroots activism these days, when one of the major TV networks started airing in prime time a 52-hour (or 65-hour, or 175-hour -- can't recall; it was really long) series called Zona, a less than cheerful romp through the delights of the prison camp system, so many outraged citizens wrote and called the station to complain that they bumped it to a late-night slot. The trick is in the numbers and consistency of complaints. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Sat Apr 29 10:55:11 2006 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 11:55:11 +0100 Subject: atlantic monthly review Message-ID: According to some sources NTV's decision to move 'Zona' to a later time was not entirely the result of grass roots pressure, but involved interventions by President Putin and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov. Perhaps I should leave members of this list to work out for themselves the potential implications of this for how the editiorial policies of the Atlantic Monthly Review might be influenced. John Dunn. -----Original Message----- From: Michele A Berdy To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 03:19:05 -0400 Subject: [SEELANGS] atlantic monthly review I did get on line and read the Atlantic explanation of book review policy , and, as you say, they don't ban reviews of translated works from their pages, but they note that they run "fewer reviews" than other comparable publications. In that same issue is a review of a new translation of Don Quixote. Although the reviewer does seem to know Spanish, he doesn't write much about the translation or focus on the language in English; he says the superb new translation is good reason to reread the book, and here's what you'll find -- and then follows the focus of the piece, a cheerful cajoling of the reader to pick up the book. But Mona Simpson's "review" focused in large part on the language of the English translation itself. And it's bizarre to do that without any touc h point for the comparisons and judgments she makes -- the touch point bein g the original language of the novel. Okay, it's tilting at windmills to fight this, but... editorial and broadcast policies do change under concerted pressure. This is not quite the same thing, but even here in Russia, which is not exactly a model of bottom-to-top, civil society, grassroots activism these days, when one of the major TV networks started airing in prime time a 52-hour (or 65-hour, or 175-hour -- can't recall; it was really long) series called Zona, a less than cheerful romp through the delights of the prison camp system, s o many outraged citizens wrote and called the station to complain that they bumped it to a late-night slot. The trick is in the numbers and consistency of complaints. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Dunn SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow Hetheringon Building Bute Gardens Glasgow G12 8RS U.K. Tel.: +44 (0)141 330 5591 Fax: +44 (0)141 330 2297 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jpf3 at UCHICAGO.EDU Sat Apr 29 12:53:52 2006 From: jpf3 at UCHICAGO.EDU (June Farris) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 07:53:52 -0500 Subject: Looking for Akishina Book In-Reply-To: <3b9.1c9110c.318438a2@aol.com> Message-ID: Dear Mr. Franke, East View has the book as follows: http://www.eastview.com/ V Rossiiu s liubov'iu : uchebnoe posobie po russkomu iazyku Our Price: $17.95 EVP Order Number A2053447 Author(s) Anikina, Marina Nikolaevna City Moskva Country Russia Language Russian ISBN 5200032296 Date Publication 2003 Publisher Russkii iazyk Subject Humanities Languages/Linguistics Cover Type Paperback Pages 142 None of the other vendors I tried listed this title, but if you haven't tried them yet, it is possible that Szwede Books in Palo Alto has a copy, since they carry so many textbooks: http://www.szwedeslavicbooks.com/cgi/index.pl Please note that most North American vendors use the Library of Congress transliteration for their catalogs, printed or online. Also note that author's name is Anikina. Hope this helps. Best wishes, June Farris At 10:33 PM 4/28/2006, N20JACK at AOL.COM wrote: >Seelangers: > >Does anyone know where the book V Rossiyu s lyubov'yu can be purchased? I >was given the book by the author in 2000 in Moscow but have been unable to >find >it in the US. > >Thanks, > > > >********************************** >Jack Franke, Ph.D., Professor of Russian >Coordinator, Russian Department B >European and Latin American School >Defense Language Institute Foreign Language Center >Monterey, CA 93944 > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * June Pachuta Farris e-mail: jpf3 at midway.uchicago.edu Bibliographer for Slavic phone: 1-773-702-8456 and East European Studies fax: 1-773-702-6623 Room 263 Regenstein Library http://www.lib.uchicago.edu/e/su/slavic/ University of Chicago 1100 E. 57th Street Chicago, Illinois 60637 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Apr 29 17:36:32 2006 From: shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM (Vladimir Shatsev) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 13:36:32 -0400 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=CD=D5=DA=D9=C3=C9=D2=CF=D7=C1=CE=C9=C5?= MUSIZIEREN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John, I think I could explain you the Russian spelling of the word we are discussing now. It obviously comes from German music teachers who lived in Russia from the end of XXVIII century. The word is MUSIZIEREN. Sincerely,Vladimir Shatsev >From: "Pendergast, J. MAJ DFL" >Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] ������������� >Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:34:46 -0400 > >"Music-making" and "concertizing" are also possibilities, depending on the >overall context. Incidentally, the spelling ������������� (with soft � >rather than hard �) IS correct; not sure why. > >-John > >-----Original Message----- >From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list >[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Martha Kuchar >Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:00 PM >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU >Subject: [SEELANGS] ������������� > >Can anyone suggest how to translate the word "���������= ����" (sic [I >think]) as is "�������� �����������= >��"? This is from a pianist's bio. > >Thanks! >Martha > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Powerful Parental Controls Let your child discover the best the Internet has to offer. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN� Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Sat Apr 29 18:13:06 2006 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 10:13:06 -0800 Subject: atlantic monthly review In-Reply-To: <1146308111.871020dcJ.Dunn@slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: Exactly! And by the way, if the Atlantic Monthly is anything like any of the magazines I've worked for, it thrives on irate letters to the editor. Sarah Hurst -----Original Message----- From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of John Dunn Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 2:55 AM To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] atlantic monthly review According to some sources NTV's decision to move 'Zona' to a later time was not entirely the result of grass roots pressure, but involved interventions by President Putin and Defence Minister Sergei Ivanov. Perhaps I should leave members of this list to work out for themselves the potential implications of this for how the editiorial policies of the Atlantic Monthly Review might be influenced. John Dunn. ------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ivanova-sullivan.1 at OSU.EDU Sat Apr 29 18:31:09 2006 From: ivanova-sullivan.1 at OSU.EDU (TANIA IVANOVA-SULLIVAN) Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2006 14:31:09 -0400 Subject: translation of музыц ирование Message-ID: I think a better way to translate музыцирование is 'musical performance' or '(to) perform music' (I personally prefer the first one). As for камерное музицирование, this is performing in duets or trios, etc. 'Concertizing' is rather vague and doesn't really provide the essential information that камерное музицирование is a non-solo musical performance. Tanya Ivanova Ohio State University ----- Original Message ----- From: Vladimir Shatsev Date: Saturday, April 29, 2006 1:36 pm Subject: Re: [SEELANGS]музыцирование MUSIZIEREN > Hi John, > > I think I could explain you the Russian spelling of the word we > are > discussing now. It obviously comes from German music teachers who > lived in > Russia from the end of XXVIII century. The word is MUSIZIEREN. > > Sincerely,Vladimir Shatsev > > > >From: "Pendergast, J. MAJ DFL" > >Reply-To: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > > > > >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > >Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] музыцирование > >Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2006 15:34:46 -0400 > > > >"Music-making" and "concertizing" are also possibilities, > depending on the > >overall context. Incidentally, the spelling музицирование (with > soft и > >rather than hard ы) IS correct; not sure why. > > > >-John > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Slavic & East European Languages and Literature list > >[SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU] On Behalf Of Martha Kuchar > >Sent: Friday, April 28, 2006 3:00 PM > >To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.CUNY.EDU > >Subject: [SEELANGS] музыцирование > > > >Can anyone suggest how to translate the word "музициров= ание" > (sic [I > >think]) as is "камерное музицирован= > >ие"? This is from a pianist's bio. > > > >Thanks! > >Martha > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------ > ------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription> options, and more. 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Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sbpearl1 at VERIZON.NET Sun Apr 30 13:42:44 2006 From: sbpearl1 at VERIZON.NET (STEPHEN PEARL) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 06:42:44 -0700 Subject: THE ALL TIME BEST ENGLISH TRANSLATION OF WAR & PEACE Message-ID: In this interesting and provocative discussion of the merits of the various English translations of War and Peace, there seems to be a tendency to overlook the rubric under which it is taking place, namely: "The Best WAR & PEACE English translation of All Time". A British philosophical school which flourished about six or seven decades ago, whose leading light was Alfred Ayer ["Language , Truth and Logic"], held that the fact that a language allows certain questions to be formulated, does not mean that all possible questions, such as "What is Truth?", "What is Beauty", "What is the Sound of One Hand Clapping", "When did you stop beating your wife" and "Which is the best English translation of W&P of all time" ? "are necessarily meaningful or answerable; although they have certainly engaged philosophers in sterile wrangling down the ages. Defining one's terms is crucial. In this case, there are two extreme, although not exhaustive or mutually exclusive, criteria. Do we mean by a "good" translation one that contains few errors of translation, or one that reads "well", i.e. smoothly and seamlessly in the target language, both - or none of the above? A translation that is error free may be totally unreadable, and one that is a good read may be totally inaccurate. Fitzgerald's "Rubaiyat" of Omar Khayam is said to be riddled with "errors" and the same has been said of the King James version of the Bible, but they are both impressive works of literature. The culture in which we currently operate - Oprah-rate? -is one where the word "loser" is just about the most opprobrious epithet going, where winning is "not the best thing, but the only thing", where "nice guys finish last", where being "numero uno" is "it" and so often determined by PR and "hype", where endless "Awards Ceremonies", which celebrate and boost the "Entertainment Industry", have themselves become popular entertainments in their own right, where a Texan bishop once declared that the people of Texas are "the churchgoingest and guntotingest people in the world", and where Oprah decrees which books shall be bought, although her writ may not extend quite as far as enforcing the actual reading of them. Indeed it is Oprah who is largely responsible for the anomalous fact that in a discussion of the competing claims of the different translations of War and Peace, such disproportionate attention is being paid to a translation team which has not actually produced one. Among the numerous symptoms of this unslakeable public thirst for an authoritatively proclaimed victor ludorum is the The Heisman Trophy which is awarded annually to the the "best" college football player of the year, almost always to a quarterback or running back, whose glamorous and conspicuous functions are at least as different from those of their "mute, inglorious" team mates as the apples are from the oranges which we are taught not to compare. Also, the Young Artists Artists Award for instrumentalists, an award which nearly always goes to those musical counterparts of the quarterbacks and running backs - violinists and pianists. The pernicious and distorting logic of this suggests that the hapless trombonist is ipso facto a worse performer and a lower form of musical life. One other distinction that runs the risk of being muffled is that, whoever the reviewer may be and wherever s[he] may be coming from, there is a printsipiyalniy difference between the point of reviewing a translation of a new or previously unknown work in order to bring it to the attention of English speaking readers and that of reviewing a retranslation of a classic. Essentially, a review of the former should be about the work itself and a review of the latter about the quality of the translation. A review of a translation of a classic by a reviewer who does not have the necessary linguistic qualifications ,or is not prepared to take the immense trouble of comparing the translation with the original, is at best a review of its readability, and cannot be a review of the accuracy of the translation, still less of the skill, ingenuity and inspiration with which that accuracy has been conveyed Accuracy itself is only a necessary, but not a sufficient condition. A reviewer who fails or is unable to evaluate the quality of the translation as such, is disqualified from making an informed judgment as to the winner of "The All Time Best Translation" Stakes; although the fact that the question can be formulated doesn't mean there is an answer - unless, of course, Oprah is asked to deliver the final verdict. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mp at MIPCO.COM Sun Apr 30 18:51:38 2006 From: mp at MIPCO.COM (mipco) Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2006 13:51:38 -0500 Subject: Romanian Edition of the Pushkin's Secret Journal Message-ID: Romanian Edition of the Pushkin's Secret Journal has just been publishhed by the Bucharest publisher ALL http://www.all.ro/detail.asp?idtitlu=3724 INSEMNARILE DE TAINA ALE LUI A.S PUSKIN 1836-1837 I will be happy to send a review copy to a scholar interested in writing a review on Romanian edition. Please write to: Michael Peltsman mp at mipco.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. 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