Russian Germans / Rossians and Russians

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Maryna Vinarska wrote:

>   As to the comment of Paul B. Gallagher:
> The problem with these phrasings in English is that for us they are 
> backwards. Consider:
> Italian Americans (Americans of Italian descent)
> African Americans (Americans of African descent)
> Irish Americans (Americans of Irish descent)
> etc.
> I would say that "russkie nemtsy" doesn't have this connotation, if I
> understand the meaning of "backwards" in the right way, just because
> it is not used in similar contexts, or by those who would like to
> load it with any special meaning, like it is with the word "Russen"
> which implies that it is about those who are from the country where
> there are no schools, no universities, no one speaks English,
> everybody drinks vodka day and night, and white bears stroll along
> the streets back and forth, back and forth, back and forth...

What I meant was that if we follow the model of "Italian Americans" 
etc., where the ethnicity is given first and the nationality is given 
last (ethnicity being a modifier of nationality), a phrase like "Russian 
Germans" would normally be interpreted as a person of Russian ethnicity 
and German nationality, i.e., a Russian living in Germany. By the same 
token, a Pole living in France would be a Polish Frenchman and not a 
French Pole. If we want to speak of ethnic Germans living in Russia, the 
English grammar would normally yield "German Russians" («немецкие 
россияне») like "Italian Americans."

That's what I meant about "Russian Germans" being "backwards."

Of course, other factors come into play here, the most obvious one being 
which "nationality" the person considers primary. In the case of 
Americans, most of whom are proud of their adopted country, it is common 
to say they are Americans most of all and also secondarily of Italian, 
Irish, etc. descent. From what you said this evening, the German 
Russians consider themselves primarily Germans and secondarily residents 
of Russia, so it would be natural for them to call themselves "Russian 
Germans." Compare for example Jewish American vs. American Jew -- both 
possibilities exist according to the desired emphasis.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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