Russian and Ukrainian

[Paul B. Gallagher]

Shrager, Miriam wrote:

> Paul Gallagher wrote:
> 
>> Since the Russians and Ukrainians are from the same stock, the
>> question becomes irrelevant if we go back far enough. The critical
>> question is whether the Russians and Ukrainians already constituted
>> separate ethnic (if not political) groups in Vladimir's/Volodymyr's
>> time. If not, you can call them anything you like and you'll be
>> right.
>> 
>> Would you say the Russians are an offshoot of the Ukrainians, or
>> that the Ukrainians are an offshoot of the Russians? Or would you
>> simply say that two equal peoples diverged and one was (оказался)
>> more successful geopolitically over the next thousand years?
> 
> The situation in Russia, Ukraine, and Belarus is more of a
> convergence than of a divergence. As the chronicles point out, the
> area of modern Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine, was populated by
> different Slavic tribes (Poljane, Drevljane, Krivichi, Vjatichi,
> Slovene, etc.). At some point later they were unified for political
> and economical reasons. So linguistically it is impossible to say
> that either Russian or Ukrainian is an offshoot of the other. These
> languages developed from originally different dialects. (This view
> is, of course, contrary to the traditional view that there was one
> East Slavic language that later broke up into Russian, Belorussian,
> and Ukrainian. This view, however, is favored by several linguists
> and Slavists nowadays.)

I agree that the family tree model is simplistic, and not only for this 
case but probably for most cases. Probably a better analogy is that of a 
braided river approaching a delta; even today the "separate" languages 
of Russian and Ukrainian are influencing one another and will continue 
to do so for the foreseeable future.

My guess is that proto-Russian and proto-Ukrainian (however you choose 
to define them) had not diverged sufficiently, either in 
linguistic/cultural or geopolitical terms, that Vladimir/Volodymyr could 
fairly be assigned to one or the other. Certainly the sound shift that 
produced Ukrainian и = Russian ы was still centuries in the future, so 
the name "Volodymyr" is anachronistic. In the same way, William the 
Conqueror certainly did not pronounce his name as we do today (the 
Bayeux tapestry spells it "Willelm," cf. German "Wilhelm"), nor as the 
modern French do either ("Guillaume," with postvocalic /l/ vocalized).

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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