From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Sun Mar 2 13:35:39 2008 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 14:35:39 +0100 Subject: short form Russian adjectives Message-ID: A.A. Zaliznjak's Grammaticheskij slovar' russkogo jazyka gives useful information about which adjectives do or do not have short forms, though the careful terminology used in the explicatory part of the dictionary (p. 69) illustrates to perfection the difficulty in making categorical statements about what does or does not exist in Russian. I agree with Frank Y. Gladney about the short forms of active participles (it is one of the potential differences between participles and our old friends quasi-participial adjectives), but they did exist for certain 18th-century writers, who would use them, for example, in latinate pseudo-dative-absolute constructions. It is amazing what one can do with a bit of determination and a classical education. John Dunn. -----Original Message----- From: gladney at UIUC.EDU To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:09:13 -0600 Subject: [SEELANGS] short form Russian adjectives Frans Suasso cites E.Tauscher and E.G. Kirschbaum, Grammatik der russischen Sprache, where they state, "Keine Kurzformen haben haufig von Verben abgeleitete Adjective auf -lyj, z.B ustarelyj 'veraltet, unmodern', umelyj 'eschickt, gewandt', ostalyj 'rückständig'. osirotelyj 'verwaist'." This is generally true of active participles in Russian. There are no short forms corresponding to _ustareiushchii_ or _ustarevshii_ either. Frank Y. Gladney John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU Sun Mar 2 15:05:30 2008 From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 10:05:30 -0500 Subject: short form Russian adjectives Message-ID: Their use in dative absolute makes perfect sense to me: they are adverbial there, rather than predicative. For predicates, it defeats the purpose to use them--a real verb does as well (actually much better). But solncu merknushchu (var. of pomerkshu) is logical, no? It is even shorter than 'kogda solnce merknet'? Of course, active perfectives are both more understandable and more useful, but even present imperfectives could be justified. But all that belongs to the stylization of a situation when short form adjectives, to begin with, may function non-predicatively. o.m. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Dunn Date: Sunday, March 2, 2008 8:35 am Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] short form Russian adjectives > A.A. Zaliznjak's Grammaticheskij slovar' russkogo jazyka gives > useful information about which adjectives do or do not have short > forms, though the careful terminology used in the explicatory part > of the dictionary (p. 69) illustrates to perfection the difficulty > in making categorical statements about what does or does not exist > in Russian. I agree with Frank Y. Gladney about the short forms of > active participles (it is one of the potential differences between > participles and our old friends quasi-participial adjectives), but > they did exist for certain 18th-century writers, who would use > them, for example, in latinate pseudo-dative-absolute > constructions. It is amazing what one can do with a bit of > determination and a classical education. > > John Dunn. > > -----Original Message----- > From: gladney at UIUC.EDU > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:09:13 -0600 > Subject: [SEELANGS] short form Russian adjectives > > Frans Suasso cites E.Tauscher and E.G. Kirschbaum, Grammatik der > russischen Sprache, where they state, "Keine Kurzformen haben > haufig von Verben abgeleitete Adjective auf -lyj, z.B ustarelyj > 'veraltet, unmodern', umelyj 'eschickt, gewandt', ostalyj > 'rückständig'. osirotelyj 'verwaist'." > > This is generally true of active participles in Russian. There are > no short forms corresponding to _ustareiushchii_ or _ustarevshii_ > either. > Frank Y. Gladney > > > John Dunn > Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) > University of Glasgow, Scotland > > Address: > Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 > 40137 Bologna > Italy > Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 > e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk > johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU Sun Mar 2 16:45:47 2008 From: s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU (Prof Steven P Hill) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 10:45:47 -0600 Subject: pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) Message-ID: Dear colleagues and Miss Mohnkern: The Russian surname "Medevedev" does not suffer from the same problem as the negative "HET" (probably should be transcribed "nyet" with "Y" for the general public, to distinguish it from the existing Engl. word "net"). Therefore I suggest not worrying about the "yeh" vowel and simply transcribe it as "med - VED - eff", adding a parenthetical note that "E" is pronounced by Russians as "YEH" (as in the once-famous Russ. negative "NET", which Russians pronounce " n - yet "). If you wished to complicate matters considerably, I suppose you could transcribe it as "m - yid - v - YEHD - yiff", spoken together as one name of 3 syllables... Good luck, Steven P Hill, University of Illinois. ___________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun 2 Mar 10:09:02 CST 2008 From: Subject: Re: GETPOST SEELANGS To: "Steven P. Hill" Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:53:38 -0500 From: Donna Griesenbeck Subject: Query re: Medvedev pronunciation Dear Colleagues, I'm posting this message on behalf of William Safire's research assistant; please reply directly to her if you wish to weigh in. Thanks, Donna Griesenbeck Hi, My name is Juliet Mohnkern and I am William Safire's research assistant for On Language in the New York Times magazine. Currently I have been working on finding a layman's phonetic rendering of Medvedev . Mr. Safire has asked me to find a consensus among experts about said pronunciation. In that vein, would you agree with the below phonetic spelling of Medvedev? *Mid-VYE-def * I know this spelling does not offer the precision that the IPA or other phonetic systems could, but we are hoping for a description that most readers will be able to understand. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at juliet.mohnkern at gmail.com . Thank you again, Juliet __________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM Sun Mar 2 18:32:20 2008 From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 10:32:20 -0800 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) Message-ID: Dear All and especially Ms. Mohnkern, Here's another vote for "med - VED - yeff," with which I think ordinary folks possessing no Russian could with reasonable approximation pronounce the name Medvedev. The final abomination creates as much confusion worse confounded as offering the untutored without English the famous poet: "m - ill - t -SCHWA - n"! Ay-ay-ay!!! Jerome H. Katsell, Ph.D., J.D. -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Prof Steven P Hill Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:46 AM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) Dear colleagues and Miss Mohnkern: The Russian surname "Medevedev" does not suffer from the same problem as the negative "HET" (probably should be transcribed "nyet" with "Y" for the general public, to distinguish it from the existing Engl. word "net"). Therefore I suggest not worrying about the "yeh" vowel and simply transcribe it as "med - VED - eff", adding a parenthetical note that "E" is pronounced by Russians as "YEH" (as in the once-famous Russ. negative "NET", which Russians pronounce " n - yet "). If you wished to complicate matters considerably, I suppose you could transcribe it as "m - yid - v - YEHD - yiff", spoken together as one name of 3 syllables... Good luck, Steven P Hill, University of Illinois. ___________________________________________________________________ Date: Sun 2 Mar 10:09:02 CST 2008 From: Subject: Re: GETPOST SEELANGS To: "Steven P. Hill" Date: Fri, 29 Feb 2008 10:53:38 -0500 From: Donna Griesenbeck Subject: Query re: Medvedev pronunciation Dear Colleagues, I'm posting this message on behalf of William Safire's research assistant; please reply directly to her if you wish to weigh in. Thanks, Donna Griesenbeck Hi, My name is Juliet Mohnkern and I am William Safire's research assistant for On Language in the New York Times magazine. Currently I have been working on finding a layman's phonetic rendering of Medvedev . Mr. Safire has asked me to find a consensus among experts about said pronunciation. In that vein, would you agree with the below phonetic spelling of Medvedev? *Mid-VYE-def * I know this spelling does not offer the precision that the IPA or other phonetic systems could, but we are hoping for a description that most readers will be able to understand. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me at juliet.mohnkern at gmail.com . Thank you again, Juliet __________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emilka at MAC.COM Sun Mar 2 18:59:17 2008 From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 10:59:17 -0800 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) In-Reply-To: <000401c87c93$c0800030$6401a8c0@D569F421> Message-ID: I must disagree. When I read the bit below with standard US English pronunciation I get the awkward way radio announcers are currently pronouncing his name. Our short "e" is just not the same "yeh" sound that you get when a stressed Russian "e" is followed by a soft consonant. (Witness the difference in pronunciation between est' and est -- есть и ест.) I would propose the following: Mid-VEH-dyiff Mid-VAY-dyiff Or Med-VEH-def Med-VAY-def How one renders the first and final syllables is pretty much a toss-up since they get reduced anyway. Regards, Emily Saunders On Mar 2, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Jerry Katsell wrote: > Here's another vote for "med - VED - yeff," with which I think > ordinary > folks possessing no Russian could with reasonable approximation > pronounce the name Medvedev. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM Sun Mar 2 19:24:06 2008 From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 11:24:06 -0800 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) In-Reply-To: <65C52CFD-3276-4721-B11C-F9B2A1EEC255@mac.com> Message-ID: Yes, you may have a point, Emily. Of your suggestions, I think Med-VEH-def would be easiest to pronounce for the otherwise uninitiated. Of course, on the morphemic level, the poor beast can no longer "know the honey". Regards, Jerry Katsell -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Emily Saunders Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 10:59 AM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) I must disagree. When I read the bit below with standard US English pronunciation I get the awkward way radio announcers are currently pronouncing his name. Our short "e" is just not the same "yeh" sound that you get when a stressed Russian "e" is followed by a soft consonant. (Witness the difference in pronunciation between est' and est -- есть и ест.) I would propose the following: Mid-VEH-dyiff Mid-VAY-dyiff Or Med-VEH-def Med-VAY-def How one renders the first and final syllables is pretty much a toss-up since they get reduced anyway. Regards, Emily Saunders On Mar 2, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Jerry Katsell wrote: > Here's another vote for "med - VED - yeff," with which I think > ordinary > folks possessing no Russian could with reasonable approximation > pronounce the name Medvedev. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Sun Mar 2 19:27:19 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 19:27:19 -0000 Subject: pronun. of "Medvedev" - a solution Message-ID: This transliteration business is a nightmare, especially here in the UK where there are so many regional accents. We could discuss it until the cows come home. The obvious thing to do is to set up a web page for journalists etc to help them pronounce the important names. I'll start work on something like this in the next couple of weeks and will let colleagues know when it is ready. Then each time there is a new difficult to pronounce tennis player etc I can add to the page. If any native speakers (one male one female) would like to send me sound files for Dmitrii Anatol'evich Medvedyev to start off with, that would be excellent, thanks in advance. Please send off list to john at ruslan.co.uk John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emily Saunders" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 6:59 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) >I must disagree. When I read the bit below with standard US English >pronunciation I get the awkward way radio announcers are currently >pronouncing his name. Our short "e" is just not the same "yeh" sound that >you get when a stressed Russian "e" is followed by a soft consonant. >(Witness the difference in pronunciation between est' and est -- есть и >ест.) > > I would propose the following: > > Mid-VEH-dyiff > Mid-VAY-dyiff > > Or > > Med-VEH-def > Med-VAY-def > > How one renders the first and final syllables is pretty much a toss-up > since they get reduced anyway. > > Regards, > > Emily Saunders > > > On Mar 2, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Jerry Katsell wrote: > >> Here's another vote for "med - VED - yeff," with which I think ordinary >> folks possessing no Russian could with reasonable approximation >> pronounce the name Medvedev. >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM Sun Mar 2 19:47:50 2008 From: Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 20:47:50 +0100 Subject: pronun. of "Medvedev" - a solution Message-ID: You are reinventing the wheel. There is such a database. It is called BBC-pronounciation unit, It even can be consulted on l;ine. Google for BBC Prounciation unit, and you will see what I mean. But if newsreaders do not consult it, there is not so much management can do about it. Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands (former director of programs of Radio Netherlands International, and slavist) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Langran" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" - a solution > This transliteration business is a nightmare, especially here in the UK > where there are so many regional accents. We could discuss it until the > cows come home. The obvious thing to do is to set up a web page for > journalists etc to help them pronounce the important names. I'll start > work on something like this in the next couple of weeks and will let > colleagues know when it is ready. Then each time there is a new difficult > to pronounce tennis player etc I can add to the page. If any native > speakers (one male one female) would like to send me sound files for > Dmitrii Anatol'evich Medvedyev to start off with, that would be excellent, > thanks in advance. Please send off list to john at ruslan.co.uk > > John Langran > www.ruslan.co.uk > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Emily Saunders" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 6:59 PM > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) > > >>I must disagree. When I read the bit below with standard US English >>pronunciation I get the awkward way radio announcers are currently >>pronouncing his name. Our short "e" is just not the same "yeh" sound >>that you get when a stressed Russian "e" is followed by a soft consonant. >>(Witness the difference in pronunciation between est' and est -- есть и >>ест.) >> >> I would propose the following: >> >> Mid-VEH-dyiff >> Mid-VAY-dyiff >> >> Or >> >> Med-VEH-def >> Med-VAY-def >> >> How one renders the first and final syllables is pretty much a toss-up >> since they get reduced anyway. >> >> Regards, >> >> Emily Saunders >> >> >> On Mar 2, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Jerry Katsell wrote: >> >>> Here's another vote for "med - VED - yeff," with which I think ordinary >>> folks possessing no Russian could with reasonable approximation >>> pronounce the name Medvedev. >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU Sun Mar 2 19:56:26 2008 From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 14:56:26 -0500 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) In-Reply-To: <000001c87c9a$fb9da6c0$6401a8c0@D569F421> Message-ID: Jerry Katsell wrote: > Of course, on the morphemic level, the poor beast can no longer "know > the honey" [Encoding = Unicode UTF-8] He doesn't have to; he only needs to eat the honey. Medved' < med + ŭ + ěd, with the last root meaning "eat" and the whole word apparently a substitute for the original Indo-European word for "bear," which had become taboo. Bob Rothstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Sun Mar 2 20:18:57 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 20:18:57 -0000 Subject: pronun. of "Medvedev" - a solution Message-ID: Excellent! I have just emailed the BBC newsdesk about this. We shall see if they know about it! JL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frans Suasso" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" - a solution > You are reinventing the wheel. There is such a database. It is called > BBC-pronounciation unit, It even can be consulted on l;ine. Google for BBC > Prounciation unit, and you will see what I mean. > But if newsreaders do not consult it, there is not so much management can > do about it. > > Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands > (former director of programs of Radio Netherlands International, and > slavist) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Langran" > To: > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 8:27 PM > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" - a solution > > >> This transliteration business is a nightmare, especially here in the UK >> where there are so many regional accents. We could discuss it until the >> cows come home. The obvious thing to do is to set up a web page for >> journalists etc to help them pronounce the important names. I'll start >> work on something like this in the next couple of weeks and will let >> colleagues know when it is ready. Then each time there is a new difficult >> to pronounce tennis player etc I can add to the page. If any native >> speakers (one male one female) would like to send me sound files for >> Dmitrii Anatol'evich Medvedyev to start off with, that would be >> excellent, thanks in advance. Please send off list to john at ruslan.co.uk >> >> John Langran >> www.ruslan.co.uk >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Emily Saunders" >> To: >> Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 6:59 PM >> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) >> >> >>>I must disagree. When I read the bit below with standard US English >>>pronunciation I get the awkward way radio announcers are currently >>>pronouncing his name. Our short "e" is just not the same "yeh" sound >>>that you get when a stressed Russian "e" is followed by a soft >>>consonant. (Witness the difference in pronunciation between est' and >>> est -- есть и ест.) >>> >>> I would propose the following: >>> >>> Mid-VEH-dyiff >>> Mid-VAY-dyiff >>> >>> Or >>> >>> Med-VEH-def >>> Med-VAY-def >>> >>> How one renders the first and final syllables is pretty much a toss-up >>> since they get reduced anyway. >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Emily Saunders >>> >>> >>> On Mar 2, 2008, at 10:32 AM, Jerry Katsell wrote: >>> >>>> Here's another vote for "med - VED - yeff," with which I think >>>> ordinary >>>> folks possessing no Russian could with reasonable approximation >>>> pronounce the name Medvedev. >>>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM Sun Mar 2 21:25:53 2008 From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 13:25:53 -0800 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) In-Reply-To: <47CB066A.6000401@slavic.umass.edu> Message-ID: Thanks Bob-- Fair enough with ed meaning "eat". I was thinking in a folk etymological way ("ved" = "know") that bears are pretty smart and smell out and therefore know where the honey is. What is the original Indo-European for "bear," which had become taboo and thus substituted out? Jerry Katsell -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert A. Rothstein Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:56 AM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) Jerry Katsell wrote: > Of course, on the morphemic level, the poor beast can no longer "know > the honey" [Encoding = Unicode UTF-8] He doesn't have to; he only needs to eat the honey. Medved' < med + ŭ + ěd, with the last root meaning "eat" and the whole word apparently a substitute for the original Indo-European word for "bear," which had become taboo. Bob Rothstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET Sun Mar 2 23:16:30 2008 From: hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET (Hugh Olmsted) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 18:16:30 -0500 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) In-Reply-To: <000001c87cab$ff694500$6401a8c0@D569F421> Message-ID: Dear bear-knowers and honey-eaters, The generally reconstructed proto-Indo-European form for 'bear' is a little hard to represent with the basic Latin alphabet, but I'll take a stab at it. It is the source of Latin ursus, Greek arktos (whence our Arctic and Arcturus), Celtic *artos, hence Old Welsh *arto-wiros 'bear-man', whence our personal name Arthur. It's represented also in Hittite (hartagas, with allowances for phonetic representation) and Sanskrit (rksa with a retroflex s generally represented with an s-dot subscript). The reconstructed form can be represented clumsily as something like *h(2)rtKo-s (with 'K' representing the "palatal" kind of 'k' that we find also in the 'heart' word (Lat. cord-, Grk kard-, Slavic *srd-c-, Germanic heart etc.). Notice that the Northern peoples who had reason to know bears at closest hand tended to adopt euphemisms. Hence the Indo-European form doesn't show up in Slavic (honey-knower) or Germanic (various relatives of 'the brown one', such as English 'bear') and much of Celtic. Jerry, you're not at all alone in your take on the Slavic version as 'honey-knower' with the apparent re-syllabification from morphologically historical medv-ed' to evident med-ved'; it's typically been re-folk-etymologized by Slavic speakers the same way. Hugh Olmsted On Mar 2, 2008, at 4:25 PM, Jerry Katsell wrote: > Thanks Bob-- Fair enough with ed meaning "eat". I > was thinking in a folk etymological way ("ved" = "know") that bears > are pretty smart and smell out and therefore know where the honey > is. What is the original Indo-European for "bear," which had become > taboo and thus substituted out? > > Jerry Katsell > > -----Original Message----- > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures > list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert A. Rothstein > Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 11:56 AM > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) > > Jerry Katsell wrote: >> Of course, on the morphemic level, the poor beast can no longer "know >> the honey" > [Encoding = Unicode UTF-8] > > He doesn't have to; he only needs to eat the honey. Medved' < med + > ŭ + > ěd, with the last root meaning "eat" and the whole word apparently a > substitute for the original Indo-European word for "bear," which had > become taboo. > > Bob Rothstein > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET Sun Mar 2 23:21:32 2008 From: hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET (Hugh Olmsted) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 18:21:32 -0500 Subject: Fwd: [SEELANGS] FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.): BEARS Message-ID: heh-heh, Sorry: in that next-to-last paragraph, make that "...Slavic (honey-eater)...," of course. Much as -ed' can make -ved', haste can make waste. HMO Begin forwarded message: > Dear bear-knowers and honey-eaters, > > The generally reconstructed proto-Indo-European form for 'bear' is > a little hard to represent with the basic Latin alphabet, but I'll > take a stab at it. It is the source of Latin ursus, Greek arktos > (whence our Arctic and Arcturus), Celtic *artos, hence Old Welsh > *arto-wiros 'bear-man', whence our personal name Arthur. It's > represented also in Hittite (hartagas, with allowances for phonetic > representation) and Sanskrit (rksa with a retroflex s generally > represented with an s-dot subscript). The reconstructed form can > be represented clumsily as something like *h(2)rtKo-s (with 'K' > representing the "palatal" kind of 'k' that we find also in the > 'heart' word (Lat. cord-, Grk kard-, Slavic *srd-c-, Germanic heart > etc.). > > Notice that the Northern peoples who had reason to know bears at > closest hand tended to adopt euphemisms. Hence the Indo-European > form doesn't show up in Slavic (honey-knower) or Germanic (various > relatives of 'the brown one', such as English 'bear') and much of > Celtic. > > Jerry, you're not at all alone in your take on the Slavic version > as 'honey-knower' with the apparent re-syllabification from > morphologically historical medv-ed' to evident med-ved'; it's > typically been re-folk-etymologized by Slavic speakers the same way. > > Hugh Olmsted ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET Sun Mar 2 23:25:14 2008 From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (Jules Levin) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 15:25:14 -0800 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) In-Reply-To: <47CB066A.6000401@slavic.umass.edu> Message-ID: At 11:56 AM 3/2/2008, you wrote: >Jerry Katsell wrote: >>Of course, on the morphemic level, the poor beast can no longer "know >>the honey" >[Encoding = Unicode UTF-8] > >He doesn't have to; he only needs to eat the >honey. Medved' < med + Å­ + ěd, with the last >root meaning "eat" and the whole word apparently >a substitute for the original Indo-European word >for "bear," which had become taboo. > >Bob Rothstein wouldn't it better be [better bee?] medu- + e...? Cf. Lith medus Thus the 'v' would be a vestige of the original -u stem The stem vowel is routinely (about 50% of the time I believe) preserved in such compounds in CSLi, so that wouldn't be a problem. Jules Levin >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET Sun Mar 2 23:54:29 2008 From: hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET (Hugh Olmsted) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 18:54:29 -0500 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jules is right' that's exactly what it is. Hugh Olmsted On Mar 2, 2008, at 6:25 PM, Jules Levin wrote: > At 11:56 AM 3/2/2008, you wrote: >> Jerry Katsell wrote: >>> Of course, on the morphemic level, the poor beast can no longer >>> "know >>> the honey" >> [Encoding = Unicode UTF-8] >> >> He doesn't have to; he only needs to eat the honey. Medved' < med >> + Å + Ä›d, with the last root meaning "eat" and the whole word >> apparently a substitute for the original Indo-European word for >> "bear," which had become taboo. >> >> Bob Rothstein > > wouldn't it better be [better bee?] medu- + e...? Cf. Lith medus > Thus the 'v' would be a vestige of the original -u stem > The stem vowel is routinely (about 50% of the time I believe) > preserved in such compounds in CSLi, so that wouldn't be > a problem. > > Jules Levin > > > > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >> subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >> at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---- > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From okagan at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU Mon Mar 3 00:23:46 2008 From: okagan at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU (Kagan, Olga) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 16:23:46 -0800 Subject: summer courses at UCLA Message-ID: SUMMER COURSES AT UCLA, 2008 In the summer 2008, UCLA will be offering Russian, Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian, Estonian, Latvian, Lithuanian, and Romanian. All courses are part of the Language Intensives in LA and combine classroom instruction with cultural activities in the LA ethnic communities. 12 unit language classes cover a year of instruction. Some scholarships are available. For more information about the Russian language courses, please contact Dr. Anna Kudyma at akudyma at ucla.edu For more information about the other courses, please contact Ksenia Kurnakova at ksenia at humnet.ucla.edu For information about registration and housing, http://www.summer.ucla.edu/ Eight week sessions: June 23 - August 15, 2008 Elementary Russian, 12 units Intermediate Russian, 12 units Elementary Lithuanian, 12 units Elementary Estonian, 12 units Elementary Latvian, 12 units Six week sessions: June 23-August 1, 2008 Elementary Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian: 12 units Russian for High School Heritage Speakers of Russian, 5 units 20th Century Russian Civilization, 5 units Six week session: August 4 - September 12, 2008 Elementary Romanian, 12 units ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET Mon Mar 3 01:43:54 2008 From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 17:43:54 -0800 Subject: pron. of "Medvedev" cont. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes please don't make the second e sound like Nyet! Here is a Youtube demonstration; although the speaker enunciates it clearly as med VEH yeff, you are correct that in regular speech the first e will reduce to something resembling the i in "ick." Mid-VEH-dyeff. http://youtube.com/watch?v=dLfBtPlkyng I love this column, and look forward to the Medvedev mention. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Deborah Hoffman, Esq. Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon Mar 3 02:46:47 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 21:46:47 -0500 Subject: pron. of "Medvedev" cont. In-Reply-To: <883073.86376.qm@web80615.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Deborah Hoffman wrote: > Yes please don't make the second e sound like Nyet! Well, it does, after all, but then I'm talking about the Russian pronunciation and you're talking about the English one. If we put a "y" in the spelling, an English speaker will give you a full yod, not a palatalized consonant: "Mid-VYED-yiff" => "Мидвьедьиф." So at least in the stressed syllable, it's better to omit it. And my taste would be to omit both, but YMMV: "Mid-VED-iff" => "Мидвэдиф." Note also that most Americans don't think "CyV" can be anything but two syllables: "Kyocera" is pronounced "КИ-о-СЕ-ра," not "Кё-се-ра," and "Hyundai" is solved by ignoring the "y." So we may well get people seeing "Mid-VYED-yiff" and saying "Мид-ви-ЭД-йиф" with four syllables or at best "Мид-ВЬЭД-йиф" with three and a half. As for "э" vs. "эй" in the second syllable, I hear the raising/closing in the Russian, but I don't like the English rendition "Mid-VEY-diff" (Мид-ВЭЙ-диф) because only the end of the vowel is raised (the onset remains low); we don't palatalize the /v/. The idea that an untrained English speaker could say Мид-ВЕЙ-диф with a soft /v/ is a pipe dream. And my guess is that a Russian needs no help hearing English "diff" as диф and not дыф; the problem lies in convincing him that the English "VEY" contains a soft /v/. On that I think we have to rely on his kind indulgence. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at ROGERS.COM Mon Mar 3 03:08:21 2008 From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (colkitto) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 22:08:21 -0500 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) Message-ID: Meanwhile Lithuanian has a form "irstva" (I can't do accents in this programme) 'bear's den', which apparently is derived from the root that gave us arktos ursus etc. Baltic as a whole has replaced the original IE form for 'bear' itself with a taboo form meaning 'hairy, etc. (lokys) ursus/art/arktos, etc. may in turn be an earlier taboo form - it can be related to the root which gives us Sanskrit ratha Latin rota Gaulish (petor)ritum etc. 'wheel', and be etymologised as 'roller' (think of the scene in "Across the Great Divide" where the grizzly chases the horse and it becomes obvious). ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hugh Olmsted" To: Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2008 6:54 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) > Jules is right' that's exactly what it is. > > Hugh Olmsted > > > On Mar 2, 2008, at 6:25 PM, Jules Levin wrote: > >> At 11:56 AM 3/2/2008, you wrote: >>> Jerry Katsell wrote: >>>> Of course, on the morphemic level, the poor beast can no longer "know >>>> the honey" >>> [Encoding = Unicode UTF-8] >>> >>> He doesn't have to; he only needs to eat the honey. Medved' < med + Å >>> + Ä›d, with the last root meaning "eat" and the whole word apparently a >>> substitute for the original Indo-European word for "bear," which had >>> become taboo. >>> >>> Bob Rothstein >> >> wouldn't it better be [better bee?] medu- + e...? Cf. Lith medus >> Thus the 'v' would be a vestige of the original -u stem >> The stem vowel is routinely (about 50% of the time I believe) preserved >> in such compounds in CSLi, so that wouldn't be >> a problem. >> >> Jules Levin >> >> >> >> >> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ---- >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gladney at UIUC.EDU Mon Mar 3 04:01:21 2008 From: gladney at UIUC.EDU (Frank Y Gladney) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 22:01:21 -0600 Subject: medved' and Medvedev Message-ID: Deborah Hoffman's Mid-VED-dyeff isn't bad, certainly better than Paul Gallagher's Mid-VED-iff with its bad syllabification. But let's remember that palatalized dental stops in Russian are somewhat affricated. So I propose Midge-VAY-jiff. Frank Y. Gladney ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon Mar 3 04:57:50 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 23:57:50 -0500 Subject: medved' and Medvedev In-Reply-To: <20080302220121.BCW25812@expms1.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Frank Y. Gladney wrote: > Deborah Hoffman's Mid-VED-dyeff isn't bad, certainly better than Paul > Gallagher's Mid-VED-iff with its bad syllabification. Bad for Russian, necessary for English. How else will you get the lax ("short") vowel? Remember, English prohibits syllables ending with that vowel (unless you count r-less British dialects, with "fair" as [fɛ:] etc.). If you want to syllabify as "Mid-VED-yiff," I suppose that would be tolerable, but it still sounds to me like a soft sign is being inserted. This is inevitably a question of tradeoffs, of finding the least bad mispronunciation, and if I have to accept a soft sign to get the correct vowel in the stressed syllable, I'll do it. I won't like it, but I'll do it, because I won't accept "эй" in the stressed syllable. > But let's remember that palatalized dental stops in Russian are > somewhat affricated. So I propose Midge-VAY-jiff. Up with THAT I will not put. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emilka at MAC.COM Mon Mar 3 09:06:47 2008 From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 01:06:47 -0800 Subject: medved' and Medvedev In-Reply-To: <47CB854E.9000409@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: It seems to me that we are straying from the point -- which is to get native English speakers with no knowledge of Russian phonetics to give a fairly good approximation of correct pronunciation of a foreign name without having to give them a lecture on soft consonants. I have a good friend (American) who is married to a Turk. When they were expecting their first child, they wanted to pick out a Turkish name, but one that wouldn't be butchered by English speakers. Their solution was to send a list of names by email to her mother and then have her mother read them back over the phone. Since both of the parents-to-be were familiar with how the Turkish should sound, their imaginations didn't extend to the all the possible ways the English tongue would distort the original Turkish. They found out with a vengeance when grandma-to-be called up, and some of their favorite names got instantly crossed off the list. At any rate, the point of my long-winded anecdote is to illustrate that with this sort of request you've got to forget what you know and think like someone who knows nothing about Russian. Quibbling over whether we're allowing palatalization because it's in the original or the exact partitioning of syllables is a bit beside the point. Get an English speaker to read what you've got back to you and you'll quickly find out how close you are. Some of the better transliterations for "dummies" are some of the more heinous looking to the experts. My guess is that if you read "Mid-VAY-dyiff" with your broadest American accent showing, it'll be fairly close, even if someone mistakenly puts an extra syllable in the last one. Regards, Emily Saunders On Mar 2, 2008, at 8:57 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote: > Frank Y. Gladney wrote: > >> Deborah Hoffman's Mid-VED-dyeff isn't bad, certainly better than Paul >> Gallagher's Mid-VED-iff with its bad syllabification. > > Bad for Russian, necessary for English. How else will you get the > lax ("short") vowel? Remember, English prohibits syllables ending > with that vowel (unless you count r-less British dialects, with > "fair" as [fɛ:] etc.). > > If you want to syllabify as "Mid-VED-yiff," I suppose that would be > tolerable, but it still sounds to me like a soft sign is being > inserted. > > This is inevitably a question of tradeoffs, of finding the least bad > mispronunciation, and if I have to accept a soft sign to get the > correct vowel in the stressed syllable, I'll do it. I won't like it, > but I'll do it, because I won't accept "эй" in the stressed > syllable. > >> But let's remember that palatalized dental stops in Russian are >> somewhat affricated. So I propose Midge-VAY-jiff. > > > > Up with THAT I will not put. > > -- > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. > -- > Paul B. Gallagher > pbg translations, inc. > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" > http://pbg-translations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Mon Mar 3 13:39:14 2008 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 14:39:14 +0100 Subject: short form Russian adjectives Message-ID: I can see the logic of 'solncu merknushchu', though not its appeal, unless, that is, you like your Russian to be like Latin. Some 18th-century writers presumably did, but I can't see it catching on again (unless Demetrius Anatolii filius Ursus decrees differently). Participles are altogether strange: Lomonosov thought they belonged to high poetry, but found them too useful to be able to follow his own precept, and it is presumably this usefulness, which owes something, but not everything, to Latin, French and German models, that allowed them to come through the language-mincer of the 18th century rather more intact than one might have expected (or our students might have wished). John Dunn. -----Original Message----- From: Olga Meerson To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 10:05:30 -0500 Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] short form Russian adjectives Their use in dative absolute makes perfect sense to me: they are adverbial there, rather than predicative. For predicates, it defeats the purpose to use them--a real verb does as well (actually much better). But solncu merknushchu (var. of pomerkshu) is logical, no? It is even shorter than 'kogda solnce merknet'? Of course, active perfectives are both more understandable and more useful, but even present imperfectives could be justified. But all that belongs to the stylization of a situation when short form adjectives, to begin with, may function non-predicatively. o.m. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Dunn Date: Sunday, March 2, 2008 8:35 am Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] short form Russian adjectives > A.A. Zaliznjak's Grammaticheskij slovar' russkogo jazyka gives > useful information about which adjectives do or do not have short > forms, though the careful terminology used in the explicatory part > of the dictionary (p. 69) illustrates to perfection the difficulty > in making categorical statements about what does or does not exist > in Russian. I agree with Frank Y. Gladney about the short forms of > active participles (it is one of the potential differences between > participles and our old friends quasi-participial adjectives), but > they did exist for certain 18th-century writers, who would use > them, for example, in latinate pseudo-dative-absolute > constructions. It is amazing what one can do with a bit of > determination and a classical education. > > John Dunn. > > -----Original Message----- > From: gladney at UIUC.EDU > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:09:13 -0600 > Subject: [SEELANGS] short form Russian adjectives > > Frans Suasso cites E.Tauscher and E.G. Kirschbaum, Grammatik der > russischen Sprache, where they state, "Keine Kurzformen haben > haufig von Verben abgeleitete Adjective auf -lyj, z.B ustarelyj > 'veraltet, unmodern', umelyj 'eschickt, gewandt', ostalyj > 'rückständig'. osirotelyj 'verwaist'." > > This is generally true of active participles in Russian. There are > no short forms corresponding to _ustareiushchii_ or _ustarevshii_ > either. > Frank Y. Gladney > > > John Dunn > Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) > University of Glasgow, Scotland > > Address: > Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 > 40137 Bologna > Italy > Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 > e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk > johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU Mon Mar 3 14:01:28 2008 From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 09:01:28 -0500 Subject: short form Russian adjectives Message-ID: Dear John (and perhaps some of the other SEELANGers who may be interested?), You are right, especially about my students. But then, if it were up to them, they would rather have all Russian participles alike. As for solncu merknushchu, the logic is Latin indeed but empirically and historically, Church Slavonic. As at one point I had to deal with texts in that interesting language on a near-daily basis (for my liturgical duties), I even now occasionally need to explain these forms to RUSSIANS, not to my American students. Well, at least the Sunday troparion in Tone One (when the stone had been sealed by the Jews and the slodiers were guarding Thy most pure Body, Thou hast risen on the third day o Saviour...) is something every Russian church singer knows by heart but hardly understands: "kameni ZAPECHATANU ot iudej i voinim STREGUSHCHIM prechistoe telo Tvoe voskresl esi, tridnevnyj (this logic of the LONG-form adjective is also not exactly transparent to the native Russian mind!) Spase, daruiaj mirovi zhizn'..." These texts, to me, are like daily quot es from Pushkin, or Tiutchev, or something equally basic for a Russian, esp. a Russian philologist. But to my singers, although being well-known, they in no way become really comprehensible. So, even without, or before, Demetrius Anatolii filius Ursus, we have the Moscow Patriarch, and the Russian Church Abroad, and many, many conservatives within the Church who have decreed, and not yet decreed otherwise, that these forms are obligatory and irreplaceable with a Russian that would be more transparent-- claiming that, allegedly, Russians' knowing some of these texts by heart is tantamount to understanding them. I on my part have no complaints: this has forced me to learn a language that seems to be like Russian but actually is like Latin, and this sort of education is very valuable, especially to a philologist. The only trouble I am having is when I have to teach it to others--not Americans but Russians, as it is well known that nothing is harder to teach than things that your pupils believe they already know or understand! At any rate, expressions like solncu pomerkshu i zemle pokolebavshejsia are my daily linguistic encounters, not even points to show off to you or other SEELANGers. It is quite a phenomenon--the hidden bilingualism of Russian Church-goers. Russian is, of course, projected on the Church-Slavonic they hear all the time, but this Russian itself remains rather affected. I have many pages of a book on that topic but keep being distracted or scared: it is a sacred cow. There are many wonderful specialists on such projections, the best among them that I know being Olga Sedakova (for lexical paronymity) and Alexandr Kravetskij (for syntactic and morphological calques, as well as lexical paronymity). I know the topic only empirically but that is what has convinced me that the socio-linguistic problem here is huge and fascinating. o.m. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Dunn Date: Monday, March 3, 2008 8:39 am Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] short form Russian adjectives > I can see the logic of 'solncu merknushchu', though not its appeal, > unless, that is, you like your Russian to be like Latin. Some 18th- > century writers presumably did, but I can't see it catching on > again (unless Demetrius Anatolii filius Ursus decrees differently). > Participles are altogether strange: Lomonosov thought they > belonged to high poetry, but found them too useful to be able to > follow his own precept, and it is presumably this usefulness, which > owes something, but not everything, to Latin, French and German > models, that allowed them to come through the language-mincer of > the 18th century rather more intact than one might have expected > (or our students might have wished). > > John Dunn. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Olga Meerson > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2008 10:05:30 -0500 > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] short form Russian adjectives > > Their use in dative absolute makes perfect sense to me: they are > adverbial there, rather than predicative. For predicates, it > defeats the purpose to use them--a real verb does as well (actually > much better). But solncu merknushchu (var. of pomerkshu) is > logical, no? It is even shorter than 'kogda solnce merknet'? Of > course, active perfectives are both more understandable and more > useful, but even present imperfectives could be justified. But all > that belongs to the stylization of a situation when short form > adjectives, to begin with, may function non-predicatively. > o.m. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Dunn > Date: Sunday, March 2, 2008 8:35 am > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] short form Russian adjectives > > > A.A. Zaliznjak's Grammaticheskij slovar' russkogo jazyka gives > > useful information about which adjectives do or do not have short > > forms, though the careful terminology used in the explicatory > part > > of the dictionary (p. 69) illustrates to perfection the > difficulty > > in making categorical statements about what does or does not > exist > > in Russian. I agree with Frank Y. Gladney about the short forms > of > > active participles (it is one of the potential differences > between > > participles and our old friends quasi-participial adjectives), > but > > they did exist for certain 18th-century writers, who would use > > them, for example, in latinate pseudo-dative-absolute > > constructions. It is amazing what one can do with a bit of > > determination and a classical education. > > > > John Dunn. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: gladney at UIUC.EDU > > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:09:13 -0600 > > Subject: [SEELANGS] short form Russian adjectives > > > > Frans Suasso cites E.Tauscher and E.G. Kirschbaum, Grammatik der > > russischen Sprache, where they state, "Keine Kurzformen haben > > haufig von Verben abgeleitete Adjective auf -lyj, z.B ustarelyj > > 'veraltet, unmodern', umelyj 'eschickt, gewandt', ostalyj > > 'rückständig'. osirotelyj 'verwaist'." > > > > This is generally true of active participles in Russian. There > are > > no short forms corresponding to _ustareiushchii_ or _ustarevshii_ > > either. > > Frank Y. Gladney > > > > > > John Dunn > > Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) > > University of Glasgow, Scotland > > > > Address: > > Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 > > 40137 Bologna > > Italy > > Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 > > e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk > > johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > > ----- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > > Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > -- > > ----- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > John Dunn > Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) > University of Glasgow, Scotland > > Address: > Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 > 40137 Bologna > Italy > Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 > e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk > johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Mon Mar 3 15:12:25 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 10:12:25 -0500 Subject: medved' and Medvedev In-Reply-To: <20080302220121.BCW25812@expms1.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Certainly affricated, but we are aiming for dz, not dj (as in job). On Mar 2, 2008, at 11:01 PM, gladney at UIUC.EDU wrote: > Deborah Hoffman's Mid-VED-dyeff isn't bad, certainly better than > Paul Gallagher's Mid-VED-iff with its bad syllabification. But > let's remember that palatalized dental stops in Russian are > somewhat affricated. So I propose Midge-VAY-jiff. > Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From votruba+ at PITT.EDU Mon Mar 3 15:15:49 2008 From: votruba+ at PITT.EDU (Martin Votruba) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 10:15:49 -0500 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > closest hand tended to adopt euphemisms. Hence the Indo-European > form doesn't show up in Slavic (honey-knower) or Germanic (various > relatives of 'the brown one', such as English 'bear') and much of > Celtic. I remember reading this on several occasions. There's a difference, though, between the Celts and the separate-parallel Baltic, Slavic, and Germanic development. The Celts who don't have the ancient hrtko- (Irish and Scottish Gaelic, Manx) borrowed the Germanic word (as bearach/berach, bear) rather than develop a symbolic name of their own. The non-Indo-European Ugrics did the same in Central Europe -- Hungarian has _medve_ from Slavic. Welsh (arth), Breton (arzh) and some of what Celtic can be traced in Spain, I think, use the Indo-European root for "bear." Martin votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at ROGERS.COM Mon Mar 3 15:31:35 2008 From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (colkitto) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 10:31:35 -0500 Subject: short form Russian adjectives Message-ID: Are Old Church Slavonic (and by extension in this context Russian) not closer to Greek participles rather than Latin ones? Latin is actually quite poor in participles (only a present active, future active, and past passive) whereas Greejk has a participle for (I seem to remember) almost every tense and voice. And so much of the literatuire on Old Chruch Slavonic calques, etc., refers to Greek rather than Latin. Robert Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Mon Mar 3 15:43:52 2008 From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 15:43:52 -0000 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) In-Reply-To: <5652203.1204539349@DIMENSION8400> Message-ID: One of my students at Lancaster Uni (UK) was called Ulla Kontio. She explained that her surname was the Finnish taboo name for bear. Hunters had to use kontio for bear instead of the real Finnish word, which is karhu, or else the bear would hear them and come. (that's my recollection, sorry if it's inaccurate.) Andrew Jameson, Malvern, UK -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Martin Votruba Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 3:16 PM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) > closest hand tended to adopt euphemisms. Hence the Indo-European form > doesn't show up in Slavic (honey-knower) or Germanic (various > relatives of 'the brown one', such as English 'bear') and much of > Celtic. I remember reading this on several occasions. There's a difference, though, between the Celts and the separate-parallel Baltic, Slavic, and Germanic development. The Celts who don't have the ancient hrtko- (Irish and Scottish Gaelic, Manx) borrowed the Germanic word (as bearach/berach, bear) rather than develop a symbolic name of their own. The non-Indo-European Ugrics did the same in Central Europe -- Hungarian has _medve_ from Slavic. Welsh (arth), Breton (arzh) and some of what Celtic can be traced in Spain, I think, use the Indo-European root for "bear." Martin votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM Mon Mar 3 15:57:32 2008 From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 07:57:32 -0800 Subject: FW: Medvedev! Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Katsell [mailto:jerry3 at adelphia.net] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 5:52 AM To: 'SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list' Subject: FW: Medvedev! I'm trying a little experiment today and will offer for the following pronunciation choices for Medvedev at the office, where there are no Russian speakers except moi. I hope for results before the Texas and Ohio primaries. JEH-ree KAH-tsell ДЖЕР-ри КА-цель -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Katsell [mailto:jerry3 at roadrunner.com] Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 5:38 AM To: Jerry3 at adelphia.net Subject: Ursus Медведев-------------------------------------Medvedev Mid-VYE-def --------------------------------Safire Med-VED-yeff-----------------------------------Katsell Med-Ved-eff-------------------------------------Hill Mid-VEH-dyiff-----------------------------------Saunders Mid-VAY-dyiff----------------------------------- " Med-VEH-def------------------------------------ " Med-VAY-def------------------------------------ " ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at ROGERS.COM Mon Mar 3 16:02:20 2008 From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (colkitto) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:02:20 -0500 Subject: FW: Medvedev! Message-ID: As an approximation, and deciding to ignore getting into the minutiae of the hard/soft contrast in Russian, while homing in on the salient items, I suggested, for non-Russian speakers not terribly interested in linguistics or phonetics: "midVAYdif" - stress on the VAY - in a private communication. Robert Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU Mon Mar 3 16:34:16 2008 From: Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU (Ruder, Cynthia A) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:34:16 -0500 Subject: Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award--Upcoming Deadline Message-ID: --Deadline 15 March 2008-LESS THAN TWO WEEKS AWAY! Second Annual Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award Colleagues! Thank you to those of you who already have submitted a nomination. For those of you who have not.... ACTR is pleased to announce the second annual Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award (PSRSLA). This program at the college/university level recognizes our outstanding students who are studying Russian. In 2007 18 students were nominated by their instructors for this award. The nominations revealed that there are some fantastic, dedicated, talented students in our Russian programs around the country who were honored. This year we would like to double participation in this program which is a wonderful way to applaud the efforts of our best students, while letting them know that we in the field appreciate and value their achievements. Moreover, because this is a selective, national program, students will be able to exploit the award as further testament to their skills and abilities as they enter the job market. The success of this program depends on you and me--Russian instructors at the college/university level. With that in mind I encourage you to nominate a student from your institution to receive this honor. The PSRSLA is a FREE service to the profession; it requires only your participation! In order to assist you in submitting a nomination, please follow these guidelines: 1. Departments (be they independent or part of a larger Modern Language department) may nominate ONE student from either the junior or senior class. Graduate students are NOT eligible for this award. 2. Eligibility is based on achievement and interest in Russian as demonstrated by enrollment in language courses, student GPA, participation in programs such as exchanges, NPSREC (National Post- Secondary Russian Essay Contest), Russian clubs or Russian houses, a Russian major or minor. Note that a Russian major is not necessarily a requirement for the award. We encourage you to nominate that student who is the "star" of your program and who personifies a dedication and commitment to Russian that is unparalleled among her/ his peers. YOU NOMINATE THE STUDENT WHO AUTOMATICALLY THEN BECOMES A Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate. ACTR does NOT select the Awardees; this process is local at your institution. 3. Nominations are to be submitted--electronically or via regular mail--by Department chairpersons/Program Directors. The nomination must be submitted on departmental letterhead. Send the nominations to Prof. Cynthia Ruder at the address below.* 4. **Nominating instructors must be current ACTR members.** **(It is never too late to join ACTR:)). Simply go to the www.americancouncils.org web site. On the main page click the "Get Involved" tab on the left side. Then click "ACTR MEMBERSHIP" from the list in the center of the page. From there either download the membership form and submit it or contact ACTR Secretary George Morris at actrmbrs at sbcglobal.net. It is easy, fast, and inexpensive. Plus you get the ACTR Newsletter and a subscription to RLJ, the Russian Language Journal, with the appropriate membership fee.) 5. DEADLINE FOR NOMINATIONS IS 15 MARCH 2008. Each Laureate will receive notification and an award certificate in April 2008. We encourage you to avail your students of this program--it is free! Help us show our best and brightest students how much we value their commitment to Russian. In order to protect student privacy we do not include awardees' names in the ACTR Newsletter, but we do identify the institutions that have participated. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact me at Cynthia.ruder at uky.edu. I anxiously await your nominations! Sincerely, Cindy Ruder *Cynthia A. Ruder University of Kentucky MCL/Russian & Eastern Studies 1055 Patterson Lexington, KY 40506-0027 859.257.7026 cynthia.ruder at uky.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From es9 at SOAS.AC.UK Mon Mar 3 16:37:57 2008 From: es9 at SOAS.AC.UK (Evgeny Steiner) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:37:57 +0000 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of Message-ID: Here is my two yen: There was a good print artist of Finnish origin, Clifton Karhu. He died last year in Japan where he spent most of his life. So in some cases this word was evidently not a taboo. In Japanese, btw, the corresponding word is 'kuma' 熊 - which is possibly easier to utter than the Russian one. ES -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Jameson To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 15:43:52 -0000 Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of "Medvedev" (cont.) One of my students at Lancaster Uni (UK) was called Ulla Kontio. She explained that her surname was the Finnish taboo name for bear. Hunters had to use kontio for bear instead of the real Finnish word, which is karhu, or else the bear would hear them and come. (that's my recollection, sorry if it's inaccurate.) Andrew Jameson, Malvern, UK ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Mon Mar 3 16:51:17 2008 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:51:17 +0100 Subject: short form Russian adjectives Message-ID: I think you are right as far as OCS, early Church Slavonic and, by extension, most of the liturgy are concerned. I was talking about the late 17th and the 18th centuries, by which time, as far as I know, the influence of Greek had largely been superseded by that of Latin and, later, Polish, German and French. The problem is that in the modern Russian participle you can see bits of all these influences (plus Ch.Slavonic's own tradition) and disentangling them is, I would think, more or less impossible. Similar considerations, incidentally, apply to the formation of relative clauses. John Dunn. -----Original Message----- From: colkitto To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 10:31:35 -0500 Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] short form Russian adjectives Are Old Church Slavonic (and by extension in this context Russian) not closer to Greek participles rather than Latin ones? Latin is actually quite poor in participles (only a present active, future active, and past passive) whereas Greejk has a participle for (I seem to remember) almost every tense and voice. And so much of the literatuire on Old Chruch Slavonic calques, etc., refers to Greek rather than Latin. Robert Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon Mar 3 17:51:03 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:51:03 -0500 Subject: medved' and Medvedev In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alina Israeli wrote: > Certainly affricated, but we are aiming for dz, not dj (as in job). Yes, American "j" is hard, closer to дж than to дзь, even in words like "Jewish" and "juniper" where British has a yod or something close to it. Emily Saunders wrote: > It seems to me that we are straying from the point -- which is to get > native English speakers with no knowledge of Russian phonetics to > give a fairly good approximation of correct pronunciation of a > foreign name without having to give them a lecture on soft > consonants. I agree on the target, and I would add that the judges are native speakers of Russian -- if they are more satisfied, then the pronunciation in question is "better." > At any rate, the point of my long-winded anecdote is to illustrate > that with this sort of request you've got to forget what you know and > think like someone who knows nothing about Russian. Quibbling over > whether we're allowing palatalization because it's in the original or > the exact partitioning of syllables is a bit beside the point. Get an > English speaker to read what you've got back to you and you'll > quickly find out how close you are. Some of the better > transliterations for "dummies" are some of the more heinous looking > to the experts. My guess is that if you read "Mid-VAY-dyiff" with > your broadest American accent showing, it'll be fairly close, even if > someone mistakenly puts an extra syllable in the last one. Well, if the Russians here have heard what a monolingual English speaker says for "Mid-VAY-dyiff" and like it better than what a monolingual English speaker says for "Mid-VED-iff," you win. "Quibbling over palatalization" etc. is an indirect way of predicting which spellings are likely to yield good results, but I agree that no amount of guesswork beats actual field data. I look forward to reading the results of our colleagues' investigations. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET Mon Mar 3 19:07:28 2008 From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (Jules Levin) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:07:28 -0800 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of In-Reply-To: <1204562277.8cdb0a4es9@soas.ac.uk> Message-ID: At 08:37 AM 3/3/2008, you wrote: >Here is my two yen: >There was a good print artist of Finnish origin, >Clifton Karhu. He died last year in Japan where >he spent most of his life. So in some cases this >word was evidently not a taboo. >In Japanese, btw, the corresponding word is >'kuma' 熊 - which is possibly easier to utter than the Russian one. I'm not a Finnicist, but the finnish word looks suspiciously like an ancient borrowing from Indo-European, hence possibly also a taboo. Cf. (cited here previously by Hugh Olmsted) Hittite 'hartagas', Sanskrit 'rksa' , reconstructed something like *h(2)rtKo-s So what goes around comes around... Jules Levin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at COMCAST.NET Mon Mar 3 19:25:27 2008 From: ggerhart at COMCAST.NET (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 11:25:27 -0800 Subject: medved' and Medvedev In-Reply-To: <47CC3A87.8070806@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: I fail to understand the necessity for two "f"s at the end. Genevra Gerhart ggerhart at comcast.net www.genevragerhart.com www.russiancommonknowledge.com -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:51 AM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] medved' and Medvedev Alina Israeli wrote: > Certainly affricated, but we are aiming for dz, not dj (as in job). Yes, American "j" is hard, closer to дж than to дзь, even in words like "Jewish" and "juniper" where British has a yod or something close to it. Emily Saunders wrote: > It seems to me that we are straying from the point -- which is to get > native English speakers with no knowledge of Russian phonetics to > give a fairly good approximation of correct pronunciation of a > foreign name without having to give them a lecture on soft > consonants. I agree on the target, and I would add that the judges are native speakers of Russian -- if they are more satisfied, then the pronunciation in question is "better." > At any rate, the point of my long-winded anecdote is to illustrate > that with this sort of request you've got to forget what you know and > think like someone who knows nothing about Russian. Quibbling over > whether we're allowing palatalization because it's in the original or > the exact partitioning of syllables is a bit beside the point. Get an > English speaker to read what you've got back to you and you'll > quickly find out how close you are. Some of the better > transliterations for "dummies" are some of the more heinous looking > to the experts. My guess is that if you read "Mid-VAY-dyiff" with > your broadest American accent showing, it'll be fairly close, even if > someone mistakenly puts an extra syllable in the last one. Well, if the Russians here have heard what a monolingual English speaker says for "Mid-VAY-dyiff" and like it better than what a monolingual English speaker says for "Mid-VED-iff," you win. "Quibbling over palatalization" etc. is an indirect way of predicting which spellings are likely to yield good results, but I agree that no amount of guesswork beats actual field data. I look forward to reading the results of our colleagues' investigations. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1308 - Release Date: 3/3/2008 10:01 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1308 - Release Date: 3/3/2008 10:01 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From es9 at SOAS.AC.UK Mon Mar 3 19:32:35 2008 From: es9 at SOAS.AC.UK (Evgeny Steiner) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:32:35 +0000 Subject: Medved Fareva Message-ID: "Йэс" - закричала в ответ пышногрудая блондинка, видимо англичанка. - "Биар форевер!" - воскликнула она. "Видимо, не только россияне поехали на медведях", - подумал я. "На самом деле, англичанке хотелось пива. Медведь на ихнем языке будет "Бэар". As you see, Russians have their pronunciation problems too. This is taken from one of the Ten Top Russian blogs - about The Naslednik Medvedya performance in the Zoological Museum in Moscow. ES ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Mon Mar 3 20:53:50 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 20:53:50 -0000 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" Message-ID: Without wanting to start a long bear trail, I would be interested to know what colleagues in the US think about a tried and tested method to get beginners to pronounce the Russian word for "hello". I undestand that this originated in British Navy Russian courses at the end of the 2ww, and is still useful: "English speakers sometimes find this hard to pronounce. If you have a standard English accent, try thinking of your donkey! Say "Does your ass fit yer?" fairly quickly and slurring the first "D". The result is often very close to "Çäð‚âñòâóéòå!". " My question is, would this be too rude in American English to include in a textbook? John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bbodnaruk at YAHOO.COM Mon Mar 3 21:04:23 2008 From: bbodnaruk at YAHOO.COM (Borys Bodnaruk) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:04:23 -0800 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: <001601c87d70$aef74930$0201a8c0@windows2hfn6v8> Message-ID: Granted that the American higher education atmosphere/classroom is much more relaxed (and relatively more open-minded about this type of approach) I would imgaine that there are other (just as effective) ways of teaching the greeting. My advice is to keep looking. Such a technique is best kept as an anecdote and kept out of the textbook. Borys John Langran wrote: Without wanting to start a long bear trail, I would be interested to know what colleagues in the US think about a tried and tested method to get beginners to pronounce the Russian word for "hello". I undestand that this originated in British Navy Russian courses at the end of the 2ww, and is still useful: "English speakers sometimes find this hard to pronounce. If you have a standard English accent, try thinking of your donkey! Say "Does your ass fit yer?" fairly quickly and slurring the first "D". The result is often very close to "Çäð‚âñòâóéòå!". " My question is, would this be too rude in American English to include in a textbook? John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Mon Mar 3 21:07:09 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:07:09 -0500 Subject: Medved Fareva In-Reply-To: <1204572755.826b26ces9@soas.ac.uk> Message-ID: I can't resist this subject (heading) on the day after. Someone cleverly said: Pushkin nashe vse, Tsereteli nashe vezde, a Putin nashe navsegda. Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jdingley at YORKU.CA Mon Mar 3 21:58:50 2008 From: jdingley at YORKU.CA (jdingley at YORKU.CA) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 13:58:50 -0800 Subject: FW: [SEELANGS] pronun. of In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi, >I'm not a Finnicist, but the finnish word looks >suspiciously like an ancient borrowing from >Indo-European, hence possibly also a taboo. The Finnish word "karhu", the usual word for "bear" in Finnish, is not a borrowing from IE. It is related to the words "karhea", "karkea", both meaning "rough", "coarse". This root is Baltofinnic and is found in all Baltofinnic languages. "Karhu" is, however, a taboo word, being a calque on Swedish "björn" "the brown one/the one with coarse hair". Also calqued from Swedish is Finnish "verokarhu", "the taxman", cf. Swedish "björn/björna" with meanings having to do with debt and tax. This probably goes back to German, cf. "einen Bären anbinden" "to get into debt", "einen Bären losbinden" "to pay off one's debts". Finnish has other words for "bear", viz. "kontio", "nalle", "otso", all three of uncertain origin but probably hypocorisms. There is one more hypocorism, viz. "mesikämmen", the origin of which is clear, viz. "honey + (palm of the) hand", somewhat similar to Russian "medved'". John Dingley Quoting Jules Levin : > At 08:37 AM 3/3/2008, you wrote: > >Here is my two yen: > >There was a good print artist of Finnish origin, > >Clifton Karhu. He died last year in Japan where > >he spent most of his life. So in some cases this > >word was evidently not a taboo. > >In Japanese, btw, the corresponding word is > >'kuma' 熊 - which is possibly easier to utter than the Russian one. > > I'm not a Finnicist, but the finnish word looks > suspiciously like an ancient borrowing from > Indo-European, hence possibly also a taboo. > Cf. (cited here previously by Hugh Olmsted) > Hittite 'hartagas', Sanskrit 'rksa' , reconstructed something like > *h(2)rtKo-s > So what goes around comes around... > Jules Levin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------- http://members.shaw.ca/johndingley/home.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hhalva at MINDSPRING.COM Mon Mar 3 22:06:22 2008 From: hhalva at MINDSPRING.COM (Helen Halva) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:06:22 -0500 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: <590400.69410.qm@web81005.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I could not agree more. Please keep looking. Helen Halva University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Borys Bodnaruk wrote: > Granted that the American higher education atmosphere/classroom is much more relaxed (and relatively more open-minded about this type of approach) I would imgaine that there are other (just as effective) ways of teaching the greeting. > > My advice is to keep looking. > Such a technique is best kept as an anecdote and kept out of the textbook. > > Borys > > John Langran wrote: > Without wanting to start a long bear trail, I would be interested to know > what colleagues in the US think about a tried and tested method to get > beginners to pronounce the Russian word for "hello". I undestand that this > originated in British Navy Russian courses at the end of the 2ww, and is > still useful: > "English speakers sometimes find this hard to pronounce. If you have a > standard English accent, try thinking of your donkey! Say "Does your ass fit > yer?" fairly quickly and slurring the first "D". The result is often very > close to "Çäð‚âñòâóéòå!". " > > My question is, would this be too rude in American English to include in a > textbook? > > John Langran > www.ruslan.co.uk > > --------------------------------- > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon Mar 3 22:21:46 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 17:21:46 -0500 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: <001601c87d70$aef74930$0201a8c0@windows2hfn6v8> Message-ID: John Langran wrote: > Without wanting to start a long bear trail, I would be interested to > know what colleagues in the US think about a tried and tested method to > get beginners to pronounce the Russian word for "hello". I undestand > that this originated in British Navy Russian courses at the end of the > 2ww, and is still useful: > "English speakers sometimes find this hard to pronounce. If you have a > standard English accent, try thinking of your donkey! Say "Does your ass > fit yer?" fairly quickly and slurring the first "D". The result is often > very close to "Çäð‚âñòâóéòå!". " > > My question is, would this be too rude in American English to include in > a textbook? I agree that it doesn't belong in a textbook because it's rude, but for a much more important reason as well: it would be ineffective. You might as well teach them to pronounce "Muenchen" by thinking of Dorothy and Toto. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at COMCAST.NET Mon Mar 3 23:35:13 2008 From: ggerhart at COMCAST.NET (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 15:35:13 -0800 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: <001601c87d70$aef74930$0201a8c0@windows2hfn6v8> Message-ID: Standard English? No. Americans cannot pronounce Standard English. "Yer" for example. Genevra Gerhart ggerhart at comcast.net www.genevragerhart.com www.russiancommonknowledge.com -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Langran Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 12:54 PM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" Without wanting to start a long bear trail, I would be interested to know what colleagues in the US think about a tried and tested method to get beginners to pronounce the Russian word for "hello". I undestand that this originated in British Navy Russian courses at the end of the 2ww, and is still useful: "English speakers sometimes find this hard to pronounce. If you have a standard English accent, try thinking of your donkey! Say "Does your ass fit yer?" fairly quickly and slurring the first "D". The result is often very close to "Çäð‚âñòâóéòå!". " My question is, would this be too rude in American English to include in a textbook? John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1308 - Release Date: 3/3/2008 10:01 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.3/1308 - Release Date: 3/3/2008 10:01 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Mar 4 00:03:31 2008 From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (Jules Levin) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 16:03:31 -0800 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: <000601c87d87$3ac9a690$4954aa43@DB4SFP51> Message-ID: At 03:35 PM 3/3/2008, you wrote: >Without wanting to start a long bear trail, I would be interested to know >what colleagues in the US think about a tried and tested method to get >beginners to pronounce the Russian word for "hello". I undestand that this >originated in British Navy Russian courses at the end of the 2ww, and is >still useful: >"English speakers sometimes find this hard to pronounce. If you have a >standard English accent, try thinking of your donkey! Say "Does your ass fit > >yer?" fairly quickly and slurring the first "D". The result is often very >close to "Çäð‚âñòâóéòå!". " I always taught my students to pronounce it 'privyet'. Very simple. Fortunately the Russians are not the French, and don't pretend to not understand you if you don't pronounce it the way they like. Jules Levin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM Tue Mar 4 03:55:32 2008 From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 19:55:32 -0800 Subject: Who's Bearish on Med-Ved-eff? Message-ID: Dear All, After an informal survey today of 14 American English speakers with no Russian, the following pronounced transliterations sounded reasonably like Medvedev to my near-native Russian ears: Safire-Mid-VYE-def-0; Hill-Med-Ved-eff-6; Saunders-Mid-VEH-dyiff-4; Katsell-Med-VED-yeff-4. Obviously the micro-survey is inconclusive. "Y" tended to be pronounced like ee in eek, and to constitute a separate syllable. Safire's VYE sounded like vee-ehh. "Mid" had a tendency to sound as flat as "midday," and the point about "who needs the double ff?" is well taken. Those pronouncing Prof. Hill's version did pretty well-though the e in the eff at the end tended to be sounded like Russian Э. One wag suggested on learning the name's meaning: "Why don't we just call him Dim Bear and fuggedaboudit!" Cheers, Jerry Katsell ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mvpeeney at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU Tue Mar 4 03:53:22 2008 From: mvpeeney at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU (MOLLY V. PEENEY) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 22:53:22 -0500 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: <001601c87d70$aef74930$0201a8c0@windows2hfn6v8> Message-ID: I think this is rude and unprofessional for any textbook. Sincerely, Molly Peeney ----- Original Message ----- From: John Langran Date: Monday, March 3, 2008 3:54 pm Subject: [SEELANGS] Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > Without wanting to start a long bear trail, I would be interested to > know > what colleagues in the US think about a tried and tested method to get > > beginners to pronounce the Russian word for "hello". I undestand that > this > originated in British Navy Russian courses at the end of the 2ww, and > is > still useful: > "English speakers sometimes find this hard to pronounce. If you have > a > standard English accent, try thinking of your donkey! Say "Does your > ass fit > yer?" fairly quickly and slurring the first "D". The result is often > very > close to "Çäð‚âñòâóéòå!". " > > My question is, would this be too rude in American English to include > in a > textbook? > > John Langran > www.ruslan.co.uk > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Tue Mar 4 04:08:35 2008 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 23:08:35 -0500 Subject: what is the deal with Medvedev? Message-ID: I have missed the beginning of this fascinating thread, and am a little puzzled by its intensity. It didn't seem to bother Slavists that most Americans say "GOR-bachev" and "P'iut'n." Why such relentless efforts to achieve the highest degree of authenticity in pronouncing the name of the current president-elect? Is someone training to infiltrate the Kremlin as a spy? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- Cowardice is the worst of human vices, because all the rest come from it. -- Mikhail Bulgakov ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Tue Mar 4 09:41:56 2008 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:41:56 +0000 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Why should it be 'rude and unprofessional in any text book'? Outside the US an ass is an ass, equus asinus, and by any other name would smell as sweet. Also, in British colloquial use, a fool. I imagine the vulgar usage in the US is part of the common semantic development: word x - in this case 'arse' (tozhe krasivo, as the old Russian joke has it), a word apparently of common Teutonic, if not Indo-European origin, and certainly found in English literature from the earliest times - becomes socially unacceptable>becomes taboo word>is replaced by euphemism>euphemism itself becomes the taboo word - a cycle which can be repeated several times. As one of the diminishing band of graduates of the Royal Navy's National Service Russian course in the Cold War period (actually it was a joint services course and it came to an end in the late 1950s) I don't recall this particular, and quite helpful mnemonic, but it would have been fairly typical of the many ribaldries which were joyfully invented to relieve the tedium of intensive language study, often in military camps in remote parts of the British Isles. The only thing which makes me wonder a little about this particular mnemonic is that I don't think that British students of the period would have been particularly familiar with the American usage, so the mnemonic, if it existed, must have been 'Does yer arse fit yer' - which I think is anyway slightly closer to the Russian, and more euphonious. But if there are any more ex-JSSL students out there who remember it differently, please correct me. Will Ryan MOLLY V. PEENEY wrote: > I think this is rude and unprofessional for any textbook. Sincerely, Molly Peeney > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Langran > Date: Monday, March 3, 2008 3:54 pm > Subject: [SEELANGS] Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > > >> Without wanting to start a long bear trail, I would be interested to >> know >> what colleagues in the US think about a tried and tested method to get >> >> beginners to pronounce the Russian word for "hello". I undestand that >> this >> originated in British Navy Russian courses at the end of the 2ww, and >> is >> still useful: >> "English speakers sometimes find this hard to pronounce. If you have >> a >> standard English accent, try thinking of your donkey! Say "Does your >> ass fit >> yer?" fairly quickly and slurring the first "D". The result is often >> very >> close to "Çäð‚âñòâóéòå!". " >> >> My question is, would this be too rude in American English to include >> in a >> textbook? >> >> John Langran >> www.ruslan.co.uk >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Tue Mar 4 09:44:55 2008 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:44:55 +0000 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Why should it be 'rude and unprofessional in any text book'? Outside the US an ass is an ass, equus asinus, and by any other name would smell as sweet. Also, in British colloquial use, a fool. I imagine the vulgar usage in the US is part of the common semantic development: word x - in this case 'arse' (tozhe krasivo, as the old Russian joke has it), a word apparently of common Teutonic, if not Indo-European origin, and certainly found in English literature from the earliest times - becomes socially unacceptable>becomes taboo word>is replaced by euphemism>euphemism itself becomes the taboo word - a cycle which can be repeated several times. As one of the diminishing band of graduates of the Royal Navy's National Service Russian course in the Cold War period (actually it was a joint services course and it came to an end in the late 1950s) I don't recall this particular, and quite helpful mnemonic, but it would have been fairly typical of the many ribaldries which were joyfully invented to relieve the tedium of intensive language study, often in military camps in remote parts of the British Isles. The only thing which makes me wonder a little about this particular mnemonic is that I don't think that British students of the period would have been particularly familiar with the American usage, so the mnemonic, if it existed, must have been 'Does yer arse fit yer' - which I think is anyway slightly closer to the Russian, and more euphonious. But if there are any more ex-JSSL students out there who remember it differently, please correct me. Will Ryan MOLLY V. PEENEY wrote: > I think this is rude and unprofessional for any textbook. Sincerely, Molly Peeney > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Langran > Date: Monday, March 3, 2008 3:54 pm > Subject: [SEELANGS] Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > > >> Without wanting to start a long bear trail, I would be interested to >> know >> what colleagues in the US think about a tried and tested method to get >> >> beginners to pronounce the Russian word for "hello". I undestand that >> this >> originated in British Navy Russian courses at the end of the 2ww, and >> is >> still useful: >> "English speakers sometimes find this hard to pronounce. If you have >> a >> standard English accent, try thinking of your donkey! Say "Does your >> ass fit >> yer?" fairly quickly and slurring the first "D". The result is often >> very >> close to "Çäð‚âñòâóéòå!". " >> >> My question is, would this be too rude in American English to include >> in a >> textbook? >> >> John Langran >> www.ruslan.co.uk >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Tue Mar 4 10:01:53 2008 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 11:01:53 +0100 Subject: The Russian pizza strikes back Message-ID: As a bit of light relief from bears and ill-fitting donkeys you might enjoy the following quote, taken from: http://www.newsru.com/arch/russia/03mar2008/language.html "Почему-то наши горожане-предприниматели в основном любят иностранные слова. Это неправильно, мы должны уважать свой родной язык. Пишут, например, "пицца" на иностранном языке. И впредь будем штрафовать", - заявил управляющий делами администрации Калининграда Леонид Донских. ['Pochemu-to nashi gorozhane-predprinimateli v osnovnom ljubjat inostrannye slova. Eto nepravil'no, my dolzhny uvazhat' svoj rodnoj jazyk. Pishut, naprimer, 'pitstsa' na insotrannom jazyke. I vpred' budem shtrafovat',' zajavil upravljajushchij delami administratsii Kaliningrada Leonid Donskix.] John Dunn. John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mvpeeney at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU Tue Mar 4 14:38:45 2008 From: mvpeeney at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU (MOLLY V. PEENEY) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 09:38:45 -0500 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: <47CD1A17.5030100@sas.ac.uk> Message-ID: "Zdravstvujte!" is a formal Russian greeting. "Does your ass fit yer?" not only fails to approximate the formal Russian greeting in terms of correct pronunciation and intonation (imperative vs. interrogative), it also introduces an element of ribaldry, to use your term, into, again, a -formal- greeting that I expect my students to use with me in class every day. I can easily list a number of students in my past who would have unceremoniously cried out "Does your ass fit yer?!" in very plain English, without the least concern for pronouncing the greeting correctly, to me and others, and those students would essentially have been given license to do so if they learned this phrase in the textbook. I find this rude. It's unprofessional because I have not spent a good portion of my life learning this language and how to teach it in order to reduce my ability to teach students how to properly pronounce "zdravstvujte," or any for word for that matter, by teaching them a phrase that does not really come close to the correct pronunciation at all. I use backward building and lots of repetition to teach the pronunciation of "zdravstvujte," and I find it works beautifully. This is not to say I have anything against mnemonic devices in general, but this one, in my opinion, does not fit our (cl)ass of pedagogy. Sincerely, Molly Peeney ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Tue Mar 4 17:23:14 2008 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 17:23:14 +0000 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I was not recommending it for use in your class, which I am sure is very well behaved, simply indulging in a little reminiscence and philological rumination in support of the posting by Mr Langran. If this mnemonic was indeed used in classes by British sailors, it would probably have been they and not their tutors, who were mostly not British, who invented it. It was by no means the most indecorous. In fact there is a long history of ribaldry in mnemonics - it is what makes them memorable and it chimes with classroom humour. I recommend Medico Mnemonica: A Collection of Fun, Ribald, Irreverent and Quite Witty Mnemonics for Medical Students by E. S. Marlowe (2002). There is also a history of objection to mnemonics - I quote from Wikipedia (s.v. Mnemonic major system): According to the wiki article on the method of loci , which is easily combined with the major system, that method was routinely taught to schoolchildren for centuries, at least until 1584, when a huge controversy over the method broke out in England as the Puritans attacked it as impious because it calls up absurd and obscene thoughts. The same objection can be made over the major system, with or without the method of loci. Mental images are generally easier to remember if they are insulting, violent, or obscene (see Von Restorff effect ). Will Ryan ~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Emeritus Professor W. F. Ryan FBA, FSA Warburg Institute (School of Advanced Study, University of London) Woburn Square LONDON WC1H 0AB All postal, fax and telephone messages to: 120 Ridge Langley, South Croydon, Surrey, CR2 0AS telephone and fax: 020 8405 6610 from outside UK +44 20 8405 6610 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ MOLLY V. PEENEY wrote: > "Zdravstvujte!" is a formal Russian greeting. "Does your ass fit yer?" not only fails to approximate the formal Russian greeting in terms of correct pronunciation and intonation (imperative vs. interrogative), it also introduces an element of ribaldry, to use your term, into, again, a -formal- greeting that I expect my students to use with me in class every day. I can easily list a number of students in my past who would have unceremoniously cried out "Does your ass fit yer?!" in very plain English, without the least concern for pronouncing the greeting correctly, to me and others, and those students would essentially have been given license to do so if they learned this phrase in the textbook. I find this rude. > > It's unprofessional because I have not spent a good portion of my life learning this language and how to teach it in order to reduce my ability to teach students how to properly pronounce "zdravstvujte," or any for word for that matter, by teaching them a phrase that does not really come close to the correct pronunciation at all. I use backward building and lots of repetition to teach the pronunciation of "zdravstvujte," and I find it works beautifully. This is not to say I have anything against mnemonic devices in general, but this one, in my opinion, does not fit our (cl)ass of pedagogy. > > Sincerely, Molly Peeney > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sdsures at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 4 20:09:15 2008 From: sdsures at GMAIL.COM (Stephanie Sures) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:09:15 -0600 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" Message-ID: Agreed. It's sloppy. And, dare I suggest...culturally insulting. When I took my first Introductory Russian course over 5 years ago, we learned words simply by reading and hearing our professor say them. Drills, exercises, role-plays with classmates - with the words exactly as they were written, practising until we could say them in our sleep. There's no reason to lower ourselves to debasing any language with mockery. To do otherwise denotes a lack of respect and cultural sensitivity. Isn't a love of culture partly why we study languages other than our own? Consider how English speakers would feel if, in the course of teaching ESL to non-English speakers, a phrase in another language was rendered so crudely. I don't think we would stand for it. Wouldn't we be bothered by it? Stephanie Sures B.A., Russian; Honours Psychology student University of Manitoba, Canada ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From azarenko at SIBMAIL.RU Tue Mar 4 21:14:36 2008 From: azarenko at SIBMAIL.RU (Rtyom) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 03:14:36 +0600 Subject: Help in Linguistic Experiment Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I am a Russian post-graduate writing my dissertation on the English language at Novosibirsk State University. My work constitutes a little part of a bigger project started a couple of years ago. The goal of my paper is lexicographic description of verbal analytical lexemes in English. The reference to what exactly these phenomena are and why they are given this kind of research will be mentioned below. The reason I turn to you in this list is that I am in need of empirical data that must be collected from the native speakers of English, of any variant. This is to be collected through the series of psycholinguistic experiments which fall into two independent stages. The first stage is what I call "distant", and is very simple and consumes no more than five minutes of the personal time of a participant of the experiment. This stage is likely to conduct with any person individually. The second stage is what I call "face-to-face", and intends to have one experimenter and a big group of the people tested together. In this case, there are several tests which are expected to present one by one. The essence of psycholinguistic experiments in my research is that the participant is given some verbal stimuli and he or she is asked to write down from one to five verbal reactions that evoke in your mind. For example, you see the stimulus "mother", and the first association might be "father", than "child", than "love", etc. Reactions are everything I need from the volunteers. So, if you are interested, contact me directly through the e-mail address azarenko at sibmail.ru and I will send you instructions and the Excel file with necessary materials. I would also appreciate the help of those of you who could cooperate with me in realizing the second stage of my experiment. You can benefit from this, as I offer my own help in organizing experiments with native Russian speakers in return. Write me a letter to discuss the issue. Besides, you can download the article, acquainting with the topic of my research in detail, by proceeding to http://rapidshare.com/files/97063456/Associative.rar.html. It is also available via my e-mail at your request. If there are teachers at your university interested in English studies, please forward this letter to them. Thank you for your assistance. Artyom A. Azarenko, NSU (Novosibirsk State University) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emilka at MAC.COM Tue Mar 4 22:59:04 2008 From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 14:59:04 -0800 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, I feel compelled to differ on the point that ribald or off-color mnemonic devices are across the board 100% inappropriate. It really should depend upon the student group and the teacher's discretion. A class of high school students? Probably best not to mention it. British sailors? It may serve to lighten the mood and produce a chuckle. Learning a language, in my opinion, is first and foremost fun. We do not just use language for cultural edification but also for punning and joking with our fellow men (and women). So to lighten up this discussion a little I thought I might forward along some "mnemonic-esque" devices that go the other way. Perhaps some of you have seen these before as they were circulating around the internet a few years ago. They're not exactly the same thing as the donkey device, but close enough to be illustrative of the fun one can have with wordplay. Emily Saunders P.S. Having taught English to Russians (as I'm sure have many SEELANGSovtsy, I can personally vouch for the fact that any question beginning "Who is...?" tends to promote snickers -- at least initially and then they get over it. P.P.S. My apologies for a few off color words (or implied off color words) in the list below. Getting rid of them would lose the joke. The last three may take some puzzling out... *** Genial Translations - Гениальные Переводы Can you hear me? --- Ты можешь меня здесь? Manicure -- Деньги лечат I'm just asking. -- Я всего лишь король жоп. I have been there. -- У меня там фасоль God only knows --- Единственный нос бога We are the champions. -- Мы шампиньоны. You feel alright? -- Ты справа всех чувствуешь Bye bye baby, baby good bye. -- Купи купи ребенка, ребенок хорошая покупка To be or not to be -- Две пчелы или не две пчелы I fell in love. -- Я свалился в любовь. Just in case -- Только в портфеле Oh, dear -- Ах, олень. I saw my honey today. -- Я пилил мой мед сегодня. I'm going to make you mine. -- Я иду копать тебе шахту. May God be with you -- Майская хорошая пчелка с тобой. Good products -- Бог на стороне уток I've just seen your balance sheet -- Видел я ваш баланс...так себе баланс On Mar 4, 2008, at 12:09 PM, Stephanie Sures wrote: > Agreed. It's sloppy. And, dare I suggest...culturally insulting. > > When I took my first Introductory Russian course over 5 years ago, we > learned words simply by reading and hearing our professor say them. > Drills, > exercises, role-plays with classmates - with the words exactly as > they were > written, practising until we could say them in our sleep. There's no > reason > to lower ourselves to debasing any language with mockery. To do > otherwise > denotes a lack of respect and cultural sensitivity. Isn't a love of > culture > partly why we study languages other than our own? > > Consider how English speakers would feel if, in the course of > teaching ESL > to non-English speakers, a phrase in another language was rendered so > crudely. I don't think we would stand for it. Wouldn't we be > bothered by it? > > Stephanie Sures > B.A., Russian; Honours Psychology student > University of Manitoba, Canada > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nataliek at UALBERTA.CA Tue Mar 4 23:13:12 2008 From: nataliek at UALBERTA.CA (nataliek at UALBERTA.CA) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 16:13:12 -0700 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I second the language learning method below. I have learned a number of languages, some non-Indo-European. And, while I do not teach language per se now, though I often teach in Ukrainian, I have done a LOT of language teaching in the past. I have taught Russian, Turkish, and Ukrainian. When teaching, or when trying to learn, I think it is easiest to stick with the target language. Trying to find first language equivalents, for pronunciation or whatever, just increases student confusion. If at all possible, best to stick with L2 (or whatever number L it happens to be). And I am all for having fun with a language, and with mnemonics, but I would leave it at the fun level. Joking around - great. Playing with a language - also great. Serious teaching - not such a good idea. Quoting Stephanie Sures : > Agreed. It's sloppy. And, dare I suggest...culturally insulting. > > When I took my first Introductory Russian course over 5 years ago, we > learned words simply by reading and hearing our professor say them. Drills, > exercises, role-plays with classmates - with the words exactly as they were > written, practising until we could say them in our sleep. There's no reason > to lower ourselves to debasing any language with mockery. To do otherwise > denotes a lack of respect and cultural sensitivity. Isn't a love of culture > partly why we study languages other than our own? > > Consider how English speakers would feel if, in the course of teaching ESL > to non-English speakers, a phrase in another language was rendered so > crudely. I don't think we would stand for it. Wouldn't we be bothered by it? > > Stephanie Sures > B.A., Russian; Honours Psychology student > University of Manitoba, Canada > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Natalie Kononenko Kule Chair of Ukrainian Ethnography University of Alberta Modern Languages and Cultural Studies 200 Arts Building Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2E6 Phone: 780-492-6810 Web: http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/uvp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mvpeeney at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU Tue Mar 4 23:18:48 2008 From: mvpeeney at STUDENTS.WISC.EDU (MOLLY V. PEENEY) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 18:18:48 -0500 Subject: Pronouciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: <20080304161312.fp4o31te4g488448@webmail.ualberta.ca> Message-ID: Oh my gosh. For clarification: 1) I interpreted Mr. Langran's original use of the term "textbook" to mean one that a teacher would use in a classroom for beginner students of Russian. 2) When I used the term "any" in my original statement ("I think this is rude and unprofessional for any textbook."), I meant any textbook for beginning learners of Russian geared toward an English speaking audience, be they of the American, British, or other variety. 3) I did not interpret Mr. Ryan's question in which he quoted me ("Why should it be 'rude and unprofessional in any text book'?") to be rhetorical, which is why I answered it. 4) Yes, perhaps "Does your ass fit yer?" indeed belongs in some sort of published collection of ribaldries. 5) I did not say or imply that "ribald or off-color mnemonic devices are across the board 100% inappropriate." For the record: I stand by my intended meaning for the reasons I've already posted that the particular presentation of "Does your ass fit yer?" in a published textbook that would be used in a classroom for beginning students of Russian is rude and unprofessional. Good-naturedly, respectfully, and sincerely, Molly Peeney P.S. I very rarely chime in on threads and I always wondered how they tend to swell out of control, and now I understand how! Budu molchat'! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at COX.NET Tue Mar 4 23:55:01 2008 From: asred at COX.NET (Steve Marder) Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2008 18:55:01 -0500 Subject: Test your knowledge of Putinisms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As a diversion, readers might like to test their knowledge of a score of Putinisms by completing the utterances: http://www.kommersant.ru/tests/test11.aspx You can check your answers at the end of the test. Steve Marder ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Wed Mar 5 10:04:57 2008 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 11:04:57 +0100 Subject: A dark and stormy night in downtown Murmansk Message-ID: The time: a Friday night sometime in the depths of World War II The place: beautiful downtown Murmansk You and your shipmates were part of a Royal Navy convoy that has just successfully escorted a consignment of lend-lease Studebakers intended for Our Gallant Soviet Allies and are now exploring the city in search of whatever action it has to offer. On turning a corner and suddenly encountering a group of OGSA intent on a similar mission, you are faced with a choice. Do you: (a) stand there glaring at each other in sullen silence until someone breaks the top off a bottle and the mother of all street battles ensues; or (b) attempt a mildly licentious and sailor-friendly approximation of a Russian greeting that is both sufficiently recognisable and sufficiently inexact to prompt an outbreak of uproarious laughter leading to the exchange of cigaretters, spirituous liquors, girlie magazines and odd bits of uniform and resulting in a general, if temporary improvement in British-Soviet relations? Difficult, isn't it? John Dunn. P.S. To add to Emily Saunders's list (and not in the slightest improper): диван так хорош which I will leave to work out for yourselves. John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Wed Mar 5 20:51:34 2008 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 20:51:34 +0000 Subject: Pronunciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: <1A781C5C-1D2E-438E-9D3F-E895FE477007@mac.com> Message-ID: Thank you, Emily, for reintroducing a welcome note of humour into this discussion! Best Wishes, R. > Hello, > > I feel compelled to differ on the point that ribald or off-color > mnemonic devices are across the board 100% inappropriate. It really > should depend upon the student group and the teacher's discretion. A > class of high school students? Probably best not to mention it. > British sailors? It may serve to lighten the mood and produce a > chuckle. Learning a language, in my opinion, is first and foremost > fun. We do not just use language for cultural edification but also > for punning and joking with our fellow men (and women). > > So to lighten up this discussion a little I thought I might forward > along some "mnemonic-esque" devices that go the other way. Perhaps > some of you have seen these before as they were circulating around the > internet a few years ago. They're not exactly the same thing as the > donkey device, but close enough to be illustrative of the fun one can > have with wordplay. > > Emily Saunders > > P.S. Having taught English to Russians (as I'm sure have many > SEELANGSovtsy, I can personally vouch for the fact that any question > beginning "Who is...?" tends to promote snickers -- at least initially > and then they get over it. > > P.P.S. My apologies for a few off color words (or implied off color > words) in the list below. Getting rid of them would lose the joke. > The last three may take some puzzling out... > > *** > > Genial Translations - Гениальные Переводы > Can you hear me? --- Ты можешь меня здесь? > Manicure -- Деньги лечат > I'm just asking. -- Я всего лишь король жоп. > I have been there. -- У меня там фасоль > God only knows --- Единственный нос бога > We are the champions. -- Мы шампиньоны. > You feel alright? -- Ты справа всех чувствуешь > Bye bye baby, baby good bye. -- Купи купи ребенка, > ребенок хорошая покупка > To be or not to be -- Две пчелы или не две пчелы > I fell in love. -- Я свалился в любовь. > Just in case -- Только в портфеле > Oh, dear -- Ах, олень. > I saw my honey today. -- Я пилил мой мед сегодня. > I'm going to make you mine. -- Я иду копать тебе > шахту. > May God be with you -- Майская хорошая пчелка с > тобой. > Good products -- Бог на стороне уток > I've just seen your balance sheet -- Видел я ваш > баланс...так себе баланс > > > > On Mar 4, 2008, at 12:09 PM, Stephanie Sures wrote: > >> Agreed. It's sloppy. And, dare I suggest...culturally insulting. >> >> When I took my first Introductory Russian course over 5 years ago, we >> learned words simply by reading and hearing our professor say them. >> Drills, >> exercises, role-plays with classmates - with the words exactly as >> they were >> written, practising until we could say them in our sleep. There's no >> reason >> to lower ourselves to debasing any language with mockery. To do >> otherwise >> denotes a lack of respect and cultural sensitivity. Isn't a love of >> culture >> partly why we study languages other than our own? >> >> Consider how English speakers would feel if, in the course of >> teaching ESL >> to non-English speakers, a phrase in another language was rendered so >> crudely. I don't think we would stand for it. Wouldn't we be >> bothered by it? >> >> Stephanie Sures >> B.A., Russian; Honours Psychology student >> University of Manitoba, Canada >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From avidan at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Thu Mar 6 03:07:26 2008 From: avidan at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Aida Vidan) Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2008 22:07:26 -0500 Subject: CALL FOR PAPERS Message-ID: CALL FOR PAPERS Return of the Song: The Milman Parry Collection and Its Reception in the World Tuzla, Bosnia and Herzegovina, July 3-6, 2008 Conference website: http://chs.harvard.edu/chs/return_of_the_song_povratak_pjesme Application deadline: May 1st, 2008. To apply: register online at the conference website or send paper abstract and contact information to avidan at fas.harvard.edu Organized by School of Humanities, University of Tuzla, Bosnia and Herzegovina; The Milman Parry Collection of Oral Literature, Harvard University; and Public and University Library Tuzla Official languages of the conference: Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian, English Since its inception in the 1930s The Milman Parry Collection at Harvard University has played a central role in our understanding of oral literature, its formation, transmission, and cultural significance in different epochs and with different groups of people. Despite its predominantly South-Slavic corpus, the theories that sprang from it have had considerably broader ramifications. These have stretched far beyond both the Hellenic and Slavic worlds, which were the focus of research of Milman Parry and Albert Lord, the two scholars who established it. It is now hardly possible to find an oral tradition in the world the research on which has not been touched by the theories of Parry and Lord. The two researchers embarked on a challenging journey in search of the origins of the Iliad and the Odyssey. Along the way, they captured a slice of a bygone time in the archive they left behind, thereby allowing many other researchers to continue traveling and discovering. The goal of this conference is to provide a forum for scholars who have used the Parry-Lord theories or archival materials in their own work. In conjunction with this, we welcome papers on any aspect of oral traditional literatures from around the world. Areas of focus include (but are not limited to) cultural and anthropological studies, stylistic investigation of oral traditional forms, linguistic issues in the study of oral traditions, mythology, ethnomusicology, performance analysis, problems of genre, the crossroads of oral and institutional literatures, the collecting and classification of folk materials, questions of memory and composition-in-performance, cross-regional folklore studies, and the role of information technology in folklore research. Povratak pjesme: Zbirka Milmana Parryja i njeni recepcijski odjeci u svijetu Tuzla, Bosna i Hercegovina, 3-6. VII 2008. Website skupa: http://chs.harvard.edu/chs/return_of_the_song_povratak_pjesme Rok za prijavu: 1. V 2008. Prijavite se registracijom na website-u skupa ili posaljite sazetak rada s kontakt informacijama na sljedecu e-adresu: avidan at fas.harvard.edu Organizator: Filozofski fakultet, Univerzitet u Tuzli, Bosna i Hercegovina; The Milman Parry Collection of Oral Literature, Harvard University i Narodna i univerzitetska biblioteka Tuzla Sluzbeni jezici skupa: bosanski, hrvatski, srpski, engleski Od svog zacetka 1930-tih godina do danasnjeg dana, Zbirka Milmana Parryja na Univerzitetu Harvard odigrala je centralnu ulogu u nasem poimanju usmene knjizevnosti, njenog nastanka, prenosenja i kulturnog znacaja u razlicitim vremenima i medju razlicitim skupinama ljudi. Bez obzira na prevalentno juznoslavenski korpus, teorije koje su iznikle iz nje su imale znatno vecu razgranatost. One su obuhvatile podrucje daleko sire od helenistickog i slavenskog svijeta koji su bili fokus istrazivanja Milmana Parryja i Alberta Lorda, dvaju znanstvenika koji su zbirku ustanovili. Uistinu, tesko je pronaci neku usmenu tradiciju u svijetu istrazivanje koje nije dotaknuto Parryjevim i Lordovim teorijama. Dva znanstvenika su krenula na izazovno putovanje u potrazi za izvorima Ilijade i Odiseje. Uspjesno obavivsi taj zadatak, sacuvali su takodjer i odsjecak odmaklog vremena u arhivu koji su nam ostavili, otvorivsi mogucnost time da mnogi drugi istrazivaci nastave putovati i otkrivati. Cilj ovog skupa je da posluzi kao forum za znanstvenike koji su zasnovali vlastiti rad na Parryjevim i Lordovim teorijama ili koristili njihove arhivske materijale. U vezi s ovim, pozivamo Vas da predlozite refereat na temu iz bilo kojeg vida usmene tradicionalne knjizevnosti iz cijelog svijeta. Skup ce biti usredotocen (ali ne i ogranicen) na sljedeca podrucja: kulturoloske i antropoloske studije, stilisticke analize usmenih oblika, lingvisticka pitanja u istrazivanju usmene tradicije, mitologija, etnomuzikologija, analize izvedbenog aspekta, problemi zanra, dodirne tocke izmedju usmene i institucionalne knjizevnosti, sakupljanje i klasifikacija folklornih materijala, pitanja memorije i izvedbe, viseregijske folklorne studije, te uloga informacijskih tehnologija u istrazivanju folklora. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nathanlongan at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 6 09:03:01 2008 From: nathanlongan at GMAIL.COM (Nathan Longan) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:03:01 +0300 Subject: Pronunciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Emily, Сенька бери мяч otherwise pronounced "Thank you very much." As for funny pronunciation coincidences, how about the Russian word for "boxwood"? That made for one of the funniest English language excursions ever. The young guide couldn't remember the name of the wood that a certain piece of furniture was made from so she just stuck the Russian word in, hoping that it might fit. It certainly fit, but not the way she thought it would: "Here we have an excellent example of a cabinet from a French workshop of the 18th century. The cabinet and all the details were painstakingly carved from..., carved from ..., they were carved from, from, from ... самшит, for a beautiful effect." Well, the effect was indeed spectacular, and everyone learned (later) how to say "boxwood" in Russian. Boxwood (buxus) is just a bush so I'm not sure how they actually built a cabinet from it, but it definitely livened up the excursion. NL 2008/3/5 Robert Chandler : > Thank you, Emily, for reintroducing a welcome note of humour into this > discussion! > > Best Wishes, > > R. > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I feel compelled to differ on the point that ribald or off-color > > mnemonic devices are across the board 100% inappropriate. It really > > should depend upon the student group and the teacher's discretion. A > > class of high school students? Probably best not to mention it. > > British sailors? It may serve to lighten the mood and produce a > > chuckle. Learning a language, in my opinion, is first and foremost > > fun. We do not just use language for cultural edification but also > > for punning and joking with our fellow men (and women). > > > > So to lighten up this discussion a little I thought I might forward > > along some "mnemonic-esque" devices that go the other way. Perhaps > > some of you have seen these before as they were circulating around the > > internet a few years ago. They're not exactly the same thing as the > > donkey device, but close enough to be illustrative of the fun one can > > have with wordplay. > > > > Emily Saunders > > > > P.S. Having taught English to Russians (as I'm sure have many > > SEELANGSovtsy, I can personally vouch for the fact that any question > > beginning "Who is...?" tends to promote snickers -- at least initially > > and then they get over it. > > > > P.P.S. My apologies for a few off color words (or implied off color > > words) in the list below. Getting rid of them would lose the joke. > > The last three may take some puzzling out... > > > > *** > > > > Genial Translations - Гениальные Переводы > > Can you hear me? --- Ты можешь меня здесь? > > Manicure -- Деньги лечат > > I'm just asking. -- Я всего лишь король жоп. > > I have been there. -- У меня там фасоль > > God only knows --- Единственный нос бога > > We are the champions. -- Мы шампиньоны. > > You feel alright? -- Ты справа всех чувствуешь > > Bye bye baby, baby good bye. -- Купи купи ребенка, > > ребенок хорошая покупка > > To be or not to be -- Две пчелы или не две пчелы > > I fell in love. -- Я свалился в любовь. > > Just in case -- Только в портфеле > > Oh, dear -- Ах, олень. > > I saw my honey today. -- Я пилил мой мед сегодня. > > I'm going to make you mine. -- Я иду копать тебе > > шахту. > > May God be with you -- Майская хорошая пчелка с > > тобой. > > Good products -- Бог на стороне уток > > I've just seen your balance sheet -- Видел я ваш > > баланс...так себе баланс > > > > > > > > On Mar 4, 2008, at 12:09 PM, Stephanie Sures wrote: > > > >> Agreed. It's sloppy. And, dare I suggest...culturally insulting. > >> > >> When I took my first Introductory Russian course over 5 years ago, we > >> learned words simply by reading and hearing our professor say them. > >> Drills, > >> exercises, role-plays with classmates - with the words exactly as > >> they were > >> written, practising until we could say them in our sleep. There's no > >> reason > >> to lower ourselves to debasing any language with mockery. To do > >> otherwise > >> denotes a lack of respect and cultural sensitivity. Isn't a love of > >> culture > >> partly why we study languages other than our own? > >> > >> Consider how English speakers would feel if, in the course of > >> teaching ESL > >> to non-English speakers, a phrase in another language was rendered so > >> crudely. I don't think we would stand for it. Wouldn't we be > >> bothered by it? > >> > >> Stephanie Sures > >> B.A., Russian; Honours Psychology student > >> University of Manitoba, Canada > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Nathan Longan, PhD Resident Director CIEE Study Center St. Petersburg, Russia From gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT Thu Mar 6 09:44:00 2008 From: gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT (Giampaolo Gandolfo) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:44:00 +0100 Subject: Aleksandr Nevskij Message-ID: I am looking for the text of the songs in Ejzenstejn's Aleksandr Nevsky (music by Sergej Prokof'ev) - such as Vstavajte, ljudi russkie, a so on. Any suggestion? Thank you. Giampaolo Gandolfo -- Io utilizzo la versione gratuita di SPAMfighter per utenti privati. Sino ad ora ha rimosso 390 mail spam. Gli utenti paganti non hanno questo messaggio nelle loro email . Prova gratuitamente SPAMfighter qui:http://www.spamfighter.com/lit ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From denis at DA2938.SPB.EDU Thu Mar 6 10:05:49 2008 From: denis at DA2938.SPB.EDU (Denis Akhapkin) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:05:49 +0300 Subject: Aleksandr Nevskij In-Reply-To: <002b01c87f6e$9b1b8020$0202a8c0@portatile> Message-ID: http://www.sovmusic.ru/text.php?fname=vstavait Best, Denis Akhapkin 2008/3/6, Giampaolo Gandolfo : > I am looking for the text of the songs in Ejzenstejn's Aleksandr Nevsky (music by Sergej Prokof'ev) - such as Vstavajte, ljudi russkie, a so on. > Any suggestion? > Thank you. > Giampaolo Gandolfo > > -- > Io utilizzo la versione gratuita di SPAMfighter per utenti privati. Sino ad ora > ha rimosso 390 mail spam. > Gli utenti paganti non hanno questo messaggio nelle loro email . > Prova gratuitamente SPAMfighter qui:http://www.spamfighter.com/lit > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Thu Mar 6 10:27:58 2008 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:27:58 +0000 Subject: Pronunciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Two nice examples - and no, pace one earlier message, this should not be seen as an assault on the noble and pure English language. (However, pedantry and pedagogical instinct compel me to note boxwood is not just a bush (strictly just 'box')- some species can be substantial trees, and the wood is, as your guide indicated, prized by cabinet makers and wood carvers. I have a chess set made from it.) Will Ryan Nathan Longan wrote: > Emily, > Сенька бери мяч > otherwise pronounced "Thank you very much." > > As for funny pronunciation coincidences, how about the Russian word for > "boxwood"? That made for one of the funniest English language excursions > ever. The young guide couldn't remember the name of the wood that a certain > piece of furniture was made from so she just stuck the Russian word in, > hoping that it might fit. It certainly fit, but not the way she thought it > would: > > "Here we have an excellent example of a cabinet from a French workshop of > the 18th century. The cabinet and all the details were painstakingly carved > from..., carved from ..., they were carved from, from, from ... самшит, for > a beautiful effect." > > Well, the effect was indeed spectacular, and everyone learned (later) how to > say "boxwood" in Russian. Boxwood (buxus) is just a bush so I'm not sure > how they actually built a cabinet from it, but it definitely livened up the > excursion. > > NL > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT Thu Mar 6 10:49:46 2008 From: gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT (Giampaolo Gandolfo) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 11:49:46 +0100 Subject: Aleksandr Nevskij Message-ID: Wonderful! Ogromnoe spasibo! Giampaolo Gandolfo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis Akhapkin" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Aleksandr Nevskij > http://www.sovmusic.ru/text.php?fname=vstavait > > Best, > > Denis Akhapkin > > 2008/3/6, Giampaolo Gandolfo : >> I am looking for the text of the songs in Ejzenstejn's Aleksandr Nevsky >> (music by Sergej Prokof'ev) - such as Vstavajte, ljudi russkie, a so on. >> Any suggestion? >> Thank you. >> Giampaolo Gandolfo >> >> -- >> Io utilizzo la versione gratuita di SPAMfighter per utenti privati. Sino >> ad ora >> ha rimosso 390 mail spam. >> Gli utenti paganti non hanno questo messaggio nelle loro email . >> Prova gratuitamente SPAMfighter qui:http://www.spamfighter.com/lit >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Io utilizzo la versione gratuita di SPAMfighter per utenti privati. Sino ad ora ha rimosso 390 mail spam. Gli utenti paganti non hanno questo messaggio nelle loro email . Prova gratuitamente SPAMfighter qui:http://www.spamfighter.com/lit ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Mar 6 11:38:35 2008 From: Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:38:35 +0100 Subject: Pronunciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" Message-ID: At least for some 15 years already most of my russian friends pronounce "Zdravstvuitye" as "PRIVYET", That seems to solve a lot of problems. Frans Suasso ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Ryan" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:27 AM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Pronunciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" Two nice examples - and no, pace one earlier message, this should not be seen as an assault on the noble and pure English language. (However, pedantry and pedagogical instinct compel me to note boxwood is not just a bush (strictly just 'box')- some species can be substantial trees, and the wood is, as your guide indicated, prized by cabinet makers and wood carvers. I have a chess set made from it.) Will Ryan Nathan Longan wrote: > Emily, > Сенька бери мяч > otherwise pronounced "Thank you very much." > > As for funny pronunciation coincidences, how about the Russian word for > "boxwood"? That made for one of the funniest English language excursions > ever. The young guide couldn't remember the name of the wood that a > certain > piece of furniture was made from so she just stuck the Russian word in, > hoping that it might fit. It certainly fit, but not the way she thought > it > would: > > "Here we have an excellent example of a cabinet from a French workshop of > the 18th century. The cabinet and all the details were painstakingly > carved > from..., carved from ..., they were carved from, from, from ... самшит, > for > a beautiful effect." > > Well, the effect was indeed spectacular, and everyone learned (later) how > to > say "boxwood" in Russian. Boxwood (buxus) is just a bush so I'm not sure > how they actually built a cabinet from it, but it definitely livened up > the > excursion. > > NL > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caton at EMAIL.UNC.EDU Thu Mar 6 12:32:29 2008 From: caton at EMAIL.UNC.EDU (Diane E. Caton) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 07:32:29 -0500 Subject: Summer Job Opportunity: VA Governor's Russian Academy Message-ID: The Virginia Governor's Russian Academy invites applications and resumes for the Summer 2008 Academy at Virginia Commonwealth University! http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/Instruction/Language/GAindex.html *** 2008 Русская губернаторская академия приглашает RESIDENT ASSISTANTS (RAs) Требования: Отличное знание русского языка - от 3 лет • Образование высшее • Опыт работы с школьниками / преподавания в группах и индивидуально • Знание коммуникативных подходов и умение их применять в рамках интенсивного обучения • Доброжелательность, инициативность‚ самостоятельность ‚ ответственность, гибкость, пунктуальность, +++ Обязанности: Дружный результативный коллектив! • Офис - Губернаторская Русская Академия, Virginia Commonwealth University (VCU) School of World Studies - Richmond, VA График: полный рабочий день ++++ c 22 июня до 13 июля Для связи: Diane Caton Телефон: (434) 962-4851 E-mail: VARussianAcademy at gmail.com http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/Instruction/Language/GAindex.html ******* The Virginia Governor's Russian Academy invites applications and resumes for the Summer 2008 Academy at Virginia Commonwealth University. Applications and job descriptions are avaabilable online at http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/Instruction/Language/GAindex.html Please submit your application and all supplemental materials ASAP to the address provided. Should you have any questions please feel free to contact the Director directly via telephone (434) 962-4851 or email VARussianAcademy at gmail.com. The RA position is an exciting opportunity for ambitious and high- energy undergraduate and/or graduate students to work with gifted VA high schoolers in an intense language learning environment. The ideal candidate will be a current major or minor in Russian Language or related fields with 2-3 years of Russian Language. Study abroad experience is a plus. Work experience with high school students or undergraduates (e.g. RA and/or TA) is a plus. Heritage and native speakers are welcome and encouraged to apply. In order to be considered, applicants MUST be available throughout the period of the Academy June 22-July 13 (staff may be asked to report one day early and will be required to attend a staff meeting on April 25-26 in Richmond, VA). Application review is already underway! All hiring to be completed by April 1, 2008. Please submit your application AS SOON AS POSSIBLE! Заранее спасибо! Diane E. Caton Director Virginia Governor's Russian Academy 2008 Губернаторская русская академия 2008 Tel.: (434) 962-4851 E-mail: VARussianAcademy at gmail.com http://www.doe.virginia.gov/VDOE/Instruction/Language/GAindex.html ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Thu Mar 6 12:41:33 2008 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (Will Ryan) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:41:33 +0000 Subject: Pronunciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I suppose it depends who you are talking to, and in what circumstances - but in general yes. I have tried in vain to think of an outrage-inducing mnemonic for privyet - 'privy' seemed at first to offer possibilities but I decided it is too old-fashioned to have the desired impact. Incidentally, the cover of the latest issue of that informative and influential British periodical 'Private Eye' carries a picture of Prince Harry in full battle array in Afghanistan, apparently about to kick a donkey. Can you guess what the caption is? Will Ryan Frans Suasso wrote: > At least for some 15 years already most of my russian friends pronounce > "Zdravstvuitye" as "PRIVYET", That seems to solve a lot of problems. > > Frans Suasso > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Ryan" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:27 AM > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Pronunciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" > > > Two nice examples - and no, pace one earlier message, this should not be > seen as an assault on the noble and pure English language. > > (However, pedantry and pedagogical instinct compel me to note boxwood is > not just a bush (strictly just 'box')- some species can be substantial > trees, and the wood is, as your guide indicated, prized by cabinet > makers and wood carvers. I have a chess set made from it.) > > Will Ryan > > > Nathan Longan wrote: >> Emily, >> óÅÎØËÁ ÂÅÒÉ ÍÑÞ >> otherwise pronounced "Thank you very much." >> >> As for funny pronunciation coincidences, how about the Russian word for >> "boxwood"? That made for one of the funniest English language excursions >> ever. The young guide couldn't remember the name of the wood that a >> certain >> piece of furniture was made from so she just stuck the Russian word in, >> hoping that it might fit. It certainly fit, but not the way she >> thought it >> would: >> >> "Here we have an excellent example of a cabinet from a French workshop of >> the 18th century. The cabinet and all the details were painstakingly >> carved >> from..., carved from ..., they were carved from, from, from ... >> ÓÁÍÛÉÔ, for >> a beautiful effect." >> >> Well, the effect was indeed spectacular, and everyone learned (later) >> how to >> say "boxwood" in Russian. Boxwood (buxus) is just a bush so I'm not sure >> how they actually built a cabinet from it, but it definitely livened >> up the >> excursion. >> >> NL >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From DBullis at UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU Thu Mar 6 15:32:58 2008 From: DBullis at UAMAIL.ALBANY.EDU (Daryl R Bullis) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 10:32:58 -0500 Subject: Aleksandr Nevskij In-Reply-To: A<003b01c87f77$caf2e190$0202a8c0@portatile> Message-ID: This page provides the text to all the sung parts in the Aleksandr Nevskij cantata: http://arslonga.33info.ru/im/prokantxt.htm Daryl Bullis -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Giampaolo Gandolfo Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 5:50 AM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Aleksandr Nevskij Wonderful! Ogromnoe spasibo! Giampaolo Gandolfo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Denis Akhapkin" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:05 AM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Aleksandr Nevskij > http://www.sovmusic.ru/text.php?fname=vstavait > > Best, > > Denis Akhapkin > > 2008/3/6, Giampaolo Gandolfo : >> I am looking for the text of the songs in Ejzenstejn's Aleksandr Nevsky >> (music by Sergej Prokof'ev) - such as Vstavajte, ljudi russkie, a so on. >> Any suggestion? >> Thank you. >> Giampaolo Gandolfo >> >> -- >> Io utilizzo la versione gratuita di SPAMfighter per utenti privati. Sino >> ad ora >> ha rimosso 390 mail spam. >> Gli utenti paganti non hanno questo messaggio nelle loro email . >> Prova gratuitamente SPAMfighter qui:http://www.spamfighter.com/lit >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -- Io utilizzo la versione gratuita di SPAMfighter per utenti privati. Sino ad ora ha rimosso 390 mail spam. Gli utenti paganti non hanno questo messaggio nelle loro email . Prova gratuitamente SPAMfighter qui:http://www.spamfighter.com/lit ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From maberdy at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 6 17:10:02 2008 From: maberdy at GMAIL.COM (Michele A. Berdy) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 20:10:02 +0300 Subject: the BBC has spoken Message-ID: I caught this on JRL: BBC March 5, 2008 How to say: Dmitry Medvedev An occasional guide to the words and names in the news from Martha Figueroa-Clark of the BBC Pronunciation Unit. After recording a landslide victory, Dmitry Medvedev, Vladimir Putin's chosen successor, has been elected President of Russia. The pronunciation of Medvedev's name presents quite a challenge to English speakers, as Hillary Clinton demonstrated when prompted to say the name on MSNBC recently (which you can watch here). As media coverage of the elections has shown, several pronunciations are already in use among British broadcasters, including muhd-VAY-dev and MED-vuh-dev (the latter is considered incorrect). The Pronunciation Unit's recommendation is DMEET-ri muhd-VYED-uhff (-uh as in the; -vy as in view; the final 'v' is devoiced so it sounds like 'f') but it was a challenge for us to decide exactly how we should render this name in English and, before we could decide on a definitive recommendation, we had to consider the following factors: -the native Russian pronunciation (which sounds close to myid-VYED-yiff; -my as in mute; -vy as in view) -the extent to which this name is likely be anglicised by non-native speakers of Russian (since his name will undoubtedly crop up frequently) -ease of production (will it be pronounceable in English?) and ease of perception (will it be clear to our audience who it is our broadcasters are talking about?) as well as -consistency - all of our advice incorporates systematic Anglicisations which are based on our knowledge of the phonology of the language in question. The above are just some examples of the issues we regularly have to consider when forming recommendations. In the case of Medvedev, we have had to compromise: we cannot expect non-Russians to pronounce this name in a perfectly Russian way because this would require broadcasters to have detailed knowledge of Russian pronunciation, which is not feasible. Having carried out detailed research and consulted with Russian speakers, including a Russian phonetician, we concluded that correct stress placement and reflection of the soft (palatalised) 'v' in the stressed syllable were the most important aspects to highlight in our anglicised pronunciation. The surname Medvedev stems from the Russian word for 'bear' medved' (with stress on the second syllable), so that it is important to retain this stress in the surname, hence our recommendation muhd-VYED-uhff. ******** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Thu Mar 6 17:38:37 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 12:38:37 -0500 Subject: the BBC has spoken In-Reply-To: <003901c87fac$f772af90$5494c10a@Sony> Message-ID: Michele A. Berdy wrote: > I caught this on JRL: > > BBC > March 5, 2008 > How to say: Dmitry Medvedev > An occasional guide to the words and names in the news from Martha > Figueroa-Clark of the BBC Pronunciation Unit. > ... > > The surname Medvedev stems from the Russian word for 'bear' medved' > (with stress on the second syllable), so that it is important to > retain this stress in the surname, hence our recommendation > muhd-VYED-uhff. Well, the schwas in the unstressed syllables are disappointing (I'd have preferred [I]), but otherwise I find this tolerable. As a sidebar I would note that American renditions of schwa fall into two broad classes: a backish variant as in "sofa," and a frontish variant close to [I] as in "vegan"; you can hear both in "Amerikin." The choice seems to be conditioned by the surrounding consonantal context, but I haven't had time to do a thorough investigation so I cannot offer a rule. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwilson at SRAS.ORG Thu Mar 6 17:41:59 2008 From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 20:41:59 +0300 Subject: the BBC has spoken In-Reply-To: <003901c87fac$f772af90$5494c10a@Sony> Message-ID: Uzhas I don't know if the Brits have an entirely different perception of what to do with all those letters, but I know the average American looking at that mess would say Mud (dirt mixed with water) - VYED (would likely come out Vi-ed) - Uhff (a sound you might as someone punches you in the gut). I'm not sure what's worse - this or Midge-vey-jeff, which would likely sound like someone calling Midge, Vey, and Jeff out for a game of Red Rover... We've butchered Gorbachev for more than two decades and are now likely assuring that we butcher Medvedev - regardless of the fact that the name can be pronounced in English very close to the Russian original without playing with extra letters. Bozhe... Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Michele A. Berdy Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 8:10 PM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] the BBC has spoken I caught this on JRL: BBC March 5, 2008 How to say: Dmitry Medvedev An occasional guide to the words and names in the news from Martha Figueroa-Clark of the BBC Pronunciation Unit. After recording a landslide victory, Dmitry Medvedev, Vladimir Putin's chosen successor, has been elected President of Russia. The pronunciation of Medvedev's name presents quite a challenge to English speakers, as Hillary Clinton demonstrated when prompted to say the name on MSNBC recently (which you can watch here). As media coverage of the elections has shown, several pronunciations are already in use among British broadcasters, including muhd-VAY-dev and MED-vuh-dev (the latter is considered incorrect). The Pronunciation Unit's recommendation is DMEET-ri muhd-VYED-uhff (-uh as in the; -vy as in view; the final 'v' is devoiced so it sounds like 'f') but it was a challenge for us to decide exactly how we should render this name in English and, before we could decide on a definitive recommendation, we had to consider the following factors: -the native Russian pronunciation (which sounds close to myid-VYED-yiff; -my as in mute; -vy as in view) -the extent to which this name is likely be anglicised by non-native speakers of Russian (since his name will undoubtedly crop up frequently) -ease of production (will it be pronounceable in English?) and ease of perception (will it be clear to our audience who it is our broadcasters are talking about?) as well as -consistency - all of our advice incorporates systematic Anglicisations which are based on our knowledge of the phonology of the language in question. The above are just some examples of the issues we regularly have to consider when forming recommendations. In the case of Medvedev, we have had to compromise: we cannot expect non-Russians to pronounce this name in a perfectly Russian way because this would require broadcasters to have detailed knowledge of Russian pronunciation, which is not feasible. Having carried out detailed research and consulted with Russian speakers, including a Russian phonetician, we concluded that correct stress placement and reflection of the soft (palatalised) 'v' in the stressed syllable were the most important aspects to highlight in our anglicised pronunciation. The surname Medvedev stems from the Russian word for 'bear' medved' (with stress on the second syllable), so that it is important to retain this stress in the surname, hence our recommendation muhd-VYED-uhff. ******** ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mkatz at MIDDLEBURY.EDU Thu Mar 6 18:18:44 2008 From: mkatz at MIDDLEBURY.EDU (Katz, Michael) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 13:18:44 -0500 Subject: Custine Message-ID: Dear colleagues: I am interested in locating any references to Custine's account of 19th c. Russia in the works of analysts writing NOW about Russia's rocky path to democracy (if that's what it is). Any thoughts? Michael Katz Middlebury College mkatz at middlebury.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From maberdy at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 6 18:40:09 2008 From: maberdy at GMAIL.COM (Michele A. Berdy) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 21:40:09 +0300 Subject: a possibly minority position Message-ID: I have no idea what phonetic rendering of Medvedev will be easiest for English-speakers to pronounce. It's definitely a difficult name for non-Russian speakers. But I think that if people get the stress right and most of the sounds -- that will be just fine. Because (in a small voice) I don't think it's such a big deal. For 8 years Russians have called the US president Mr Boosh. They call the first US president something like Dzhyorch Vashinkton. (And don't forget that famous writer Gerbert Ooels.) That's not disrespect or butchering the names -- it's just the best they can do with their transliteration and phonetic systems. Somehow we have all survived without a serious international incident. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kbtrans at COX.NET Thu Mar 6 19:37:12 2008 From: kbtrans at COX.NET (Kim Braithwaite) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 11:37:12 -0800 Subject: a possibly minority position Message-ID: God bless you, Michele Mr Kim Braithwaite, Translator "Good is better than Evil, because it's nicer" - Mammy Yokum (Al Capp) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele A. Berdy" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position I have no idea what phonetic rendering of Medvedev will be easiest for English-speakers to pronounce. It's definitely a difficult name for non-Russian speakers. But I think that if people get the stress right and most of the sounds -- that will be just fine. Because (in a small voice) I don't think it's such a big deal. For 8 years Russians have called the US president Mr Boosh. They call the first US president something like Dzhyorch Vashinkton. (And don't forget that famous writer Gerbert Ooels.) That's not disrespect or butchering the names -- it's just the best they can do with their transliteration and phonetic systems. Somehow we have all survived without a serious international incident. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emilka at MAC.COM Thu Mar 6 19:38:29 2008 From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 11:38:29 -0800 Subject: Pronunciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hello, I'd forgotten about Sen'ka's myach. A very good example, though the version I heard was Sen'ka verni myach/Сенька верни мяч. Either would do the trick! Emily On Mar 6, 2008, at 1:03 AM, Nathan Longan wrote: > Emily, > Сенька бери мяч > otherwise pronounced "Thank you very much." > > As for funny pronunciation coincidences, how about the Russian word > for > "boxwood"? That made for one of the funniest English language > excursions > ever. The young guide couldn't remember the name of the wood that a > certain > piece of furniture was made from so she just stuck the Russian word > in, > hoping that it might fit. It certainly fit, but not the way she > thought it > would: > > "Here we have an excellent example of a cabinet from a French > workshop of > the 18th century. The cabinet and all the details were > painstakingly carved > from..., carved from ..., they were carved from, from, from ... > самшит, for > a beautiful effect." > > Well, the effect was indeed spectacular, and everyone learned > (later) how to > say "boxwood" in Russian. Boxwood (buxus) is just a bush so I'm not > sure > how they actually built a cabinet from it, but it definitely livened > up the > excursion. > > NL > > 2008/3/5 Robert Chandler : > >> Thank you, Emily, for reintroducing a welcome note of humour into >> this >> discussion! >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> R. >> >> >> >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I feel compelled to differ on the point that ribald or off-color >>> mnemonic devices are across the board 100% inappropriate. It really >>> should depend upon the student group and the teacher's >>> discretion. A >>> class of high school students? Probably best not to mention it. >>> British sailors? It may serve to lighten the mood and produce a >>> chuckle. Learning a language, in my opinion, is first and foremost >>> fun. We do not just use language for cultural edification but also >>> for punning and joking with our fellow men (and women). >>> >>> So to lighten up this discussion a little I thought I might forward >>> along some "mnemonic-esque" devices that go the other way. Perhaps >>> some of you have seen these before as they were circulating around >>> the >>> internet a few years ago. They're not exactly the same thing as the >>> donkey device, but close enough to be illustrative of the fun one >>> can >>> have with wordplay. >>> >>> Emily Saunders >>> >>> P.S. Having taught English to Russians (as I'm sure have many >>> SEELANGSovtsy, I can personally vouch for the fact that any question >>> beginning "Who is...?" tends to promote snickers -- at least >>> initially >>> and then they get over it. >>> >>> P.P.S. My apologies for a few off color words (or implied off color >>> words) in the list below. Getting rid of them would lose the joke. >>> The last three may take some puzzling out... >>> >>> *** >>> >>> Genial Translations - Гениальные Переводы >>> Can you hear me? --- Ты можешь меня здесь? >>> Manicure -- Деньги лечат >>> I'm just asking. -- Я всего лишь король жоп. >>> I have been there. -- У меня там фасоль >>> God only knows --- Единственный нос бога >>> We are the champions. -- Мы шампиньоны. >>> You feel alright? -- Ты справа всех чувствуешь >>> Bye bye baby, baby good bye. -- Купи купи ребенка, >>> ребенок хорошая покупка >>> To be or not to be -- Две пчелы или не две пчелы >>> I fell in love. -- Я свалился в любовь. >>> Just in case -- Только в портфеле >>> Oh, dear -- Ах, олень. >>> I saw my honey today. -- Я пилил мой мед сегодня. >>> I'm going to make you mine. -- Я иду копать тебе >>> шахту. >>> May God be with you -- Майская хорошая пчелка с >>> тобой. >>> Good products -- Бог на стороне уток >>> I've just seen your balance sheet -- Видел я ваш >>> баланс...так себе баланс >>> >>> >>> >>> On Mar 4, 2008, at 12:09 PM, Stephanie Sures wrote: >>> >>>> Agreed. It's sloppy. And, dare I suggest...culturally insulting. >>>> >>>> When I took my first Introductory Russian course over 5 years >>>> ago, we >>>> learned words simply by reading and hearing our professor say them. >>>> Drills, >>>> exercises, role-plays with classmates - with the words exactly as >>>> they were >>>> written, practising until we could say them in our sleep. There's >>>> no >>>> reason >>>> to lower ourselves to debasing any language with mockery. To do >>>> otherwise >>>> denotes a lack of respect and cultural sensitivity. Isn't a love of >>>> culture >>>> partly why we study languages other than our own? >>>> >>>> Consider how English speakers would feel if, in the course of >>>> teaching ESL >>>> to non-English speakers, a phrase in another language was >>>> rendered so >>>> crudely. I don't think we would stand for it. Wouldn't we be >>>> bothered by it? >>>> >>>> Stephanie Sures >>>> B.A., Russian; Honours Psychology student >>>> University of Manitoba, Canada >>>> >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>>> subscription >>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >>>> at: >>>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>> subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >>> at: >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >> subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > > > -- > Nathan Longan, PhD > Resident Director > CIEE Study Center > St. Petersburg, Russia ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU Thu Mar 6 20:09:59 2008 From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:09:59 -0500 Subject: Custine Message-ID: In Sokurov's 'Russian Arc', Custine is the main protagonist: it is through his eyes that we get to see Sokurov's version of post-Petrine Russian history. Of course, it is a film, but by now, part of, if not pop then self-popularizing, Russian culture. o.m. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Katz, Michael" Date: Thursday, March 6, 2008 1:18 pm Subject: [SEELANGS] Custine > Dear colleagues: > > I am interested in locating any references to Custine's account of > 19th c. > Russia in the works of analysts writing NOW about Russia's rocky > path to > democracy (if that's what it is). Any thoughts? > > Michael Katz > Middlebury College > mkatz at middlebury.edu > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU Thu Mar 6 20:12:07 2008 From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:12:07 -0500 Subject: a possibly minority position Message-ID: I agree! The most interesting pronunciating butchering of Russian names by Americans occurred with Khrushchev. I wish this were 'our' last problem with 'them' -- and vice versa, of course! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele A. Berdy" Date: Thursday, March 6, 2008 1:40 pm Subject: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position > I have no idea what phonetic rendering of Medvedev will be easiest > for English-speakers to pronounce. It's definitely a difficult name > for non-Russian speakers. But I think that if people get the stress > right and most of the sounds -- that will be just fine. Because (in > a small voice) I don't think it's such a big deal. For 8 years > Russians have called the US president Mr Boosh. They call the first > US president something like Dzhyorch Vashinkton. (And don't forget > that famous writer Gerbert Ooels.) That's not disrespect or > butchering the names -- it's just the best they can do with their > transliteration and phonetic systems. Somehow we have all survived > without a serious international incident. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mdenner at STETSON.EDU Thu Mar 6 20:17:07 2008 From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU (Michael Denner) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 15:17:07 -0500 Subject: Aleksandr Nevskij In-Reply-To: A<002b01c87f6e$9b1b8020$0202a8c0@portatile> Message-ID: Giampaolo! Did you catch the recent NPR segment on the music to Nevsky? It's a pretty good audio essay about the soundtrack to Nevsky: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=18860465&sc=emaf ~mad ~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* Dr. Michael A. Denner Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal Director, University Honors Program Contact Information: Russian Studies Program Stetson University Campus Box 8361 DeLand, FL 32720-3756 386.822.7381 (department) 386.822.7265 (direct line) 386.822.7380 (fax) google talk michaeladenner www.stetson.edu/~mdenner -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Giampaolo Gandolfo Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 4:44 AM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Aleksandr Nevskij I am looking for the text of the songs in Ejzenstejn's Aleksandr Nevsky (music by Sergej Prokof'ev) - such as Vstavajte, ljudi russkie, a so on. Any suggestion? Thank you. Giampaolo Gandolfo -- Io utilizzo la versione gratuita di SPAMfighter per utenti privati. Sino ad ora ha rimosso 390 mail spam. Gli utenti paganti non hanno questo messaggio nelle loro email . Prova gratuitamente SPAMfighter qui:http://www.spamfighter.com/lit ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From chernev at MUOHIO.EDU Fri Mar 7 00:22:36 2008 From: chernev at MUOHIO.EDU (Chernetsky, Vitaly A. Dr.) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 19:22:36 -0500 Subject: Call for papers: "The Internet and Public Intellectuals in the Postcommunist World" MLA 2008 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am writing to bring your attention to the panel I am organizing for this year's annual convention of the Modern Language Association of America (MLA) in San Francisco, Dec. 27-30 (please see below). The deadline for abstracts is a little over a week at this point. I'd be happy to answer any questions pertaining to the panel that you might have. "The Internet and Public Intellectuals in the Postcommunist World" The Internet has emerged as a major force in the cultural and political life of many postcommunist nations; online periodicals, blogs, and bulletin boards are but the tip of the iceberg of this phenomenon. For the 2008 MLA convention, to be held Dec. 27-30 in San Francisco, paper proposals are invited for a panel on the ways this new medium has transformed the roles, activities, and identities of public intellectuals, in Russia and other ex-Soviet and East/Central European nations. Proposals with a comparative and/or theoretical angle are particularly welcome. Please send proposed paper titles and one-paragraph abstracts by March 15 to Vitaly Chernetsky, via e-mail at chernev at muohio.edu Sincerely, Vitaly Chernetsky ------------------------------------------------------------ Dr. Vitaly Chernetsky Assistant Professor Dept. of German, Russian & East Asian Languages Miami University Oxford, OH 45056 tel. (513) 529-2515 fax (513) 529-2296 ------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From klb57 at COLUMBIA.EDU Fri Mar 7 03:42:15 2008 From: klb57 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Kirsten Lodge) Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 22:42:15 -0500 Subject: Help in Linguistic Experiment In-Reply-To: <200803042114.m24LEZ6a016775@viola.sinor.ru> Message-ID: Dear Artyom, I can't figure out how to download your article from that site. Would you be so kind as to send it to me? I am interested in your research. Thanks, Kirsten Quoting Rtyom : > Dear colleagues, > > > > I am a Russian post-graduate writing my dissertation on the English language > at Novosibirsk State University. My work constitutes a little part of a > bigger project started a couple of years ago. The goal of my paper is > lexicographic description of verbal analytical lexemes in English. The > reference to what exactly these phenomena are and why they are given this > kind of research will be mentioned below. The reason I turn to you in this > list is that I am in need of empirical data that must be collected from the > native speakers of English, of any variant. This is to be collected through > the series of psycholinguistic experiments which fall into two independent > stages. The first stage is what I call "distant", and is very simple and > consumes no more than five minutes of the personal time of a participant of > the experiment. This stage is likely to conduct with any person > individually. The second stage is what I call "face-to-face", and intends to > have one experimenter and a big group of the people tested together. In this > case, there are several tests which are expected to present one by one. The > essence of psycholinguistic experiments in my research is that the > participant is given some verbal stimuli and he or she is asked to write > down from one to five verbal reactions that evoke in your mind. For example, > you see the stimulus "mother", and the first association might be "father", > than "child", than "love", etc. Reactions are everything I need from the > volunteers. > > > > So, if you are interested, contact me directly through the e-mail address > azarenko at sibmail.ru and I will send you instructions and the Excel file with > necessary materials. I would also appreciate the help of those of you who > could cooperate with me in realizing the second stage of my experiment. You > can benefit from this, as I offer my own help in organizing experiments with > native Russian speakers in return. Write me a letter to discuss the issue. > > > > Besides, you can download the article, acquainting with the topic of my > research in detail, by proceeding to > http://rapidshare.com/files/97063456/Associative.rar.html. It is also > available via my e-mail at your request. > > > > If there are teachers at your university interested in English studies, > please forward this letter to them. > > > > Thank you for your assistance. > > > > Artyom A. Azarenko, > > NSU (Novosibirsk State University) > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Danko.Sipka at ASU.EDU Fri Mar 7 07:34:00 2008 From: Danko.Sipka at ASU.EDU (Danko Sipka) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 00:34:00 -0700 Subject: Serbo-Croatian (BCMS) Programs Message-ID: Colleagues, I am trying to make a snapshot of Serbo-Croatian (Bosnian/Croatian/Montenegrin/Serbian) programs at US universities in this accademic year. If your school offers Serbo-Croatian (BCMS), either in its entirety or in one of the variants, I would be most grateful if you would send me (off-list, to danko.sipka at asu.edu) the following data: 1.Which Serbo-Croatian (BCMS) courses (i.e., courses with a specific focus on that language) were offered in FS 07 and SS 08, 2. How many students were in each course. I will summarize the results on the list. Best, Danko Danko Sipka Professor of Slavic Languages School of International Letters and Cultures Arizona State University Web: http://www.public.asu.edu/~dsipka Mail: Danko.Sipka at asu.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From irenamikulaco at NET.HR Fri Mar 7 09:28:16 2008 From: irenamikulaco at NET.HR (Irena Mikulaco) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:28:16 +0100 Subject: Serbo-Croatian (BCMS) Programs Message-ID: Hello, I'm from Croatia and we have in our schools Only Croatian language, there are no serbo-croatian, or croatian-serbian language. Here is the link of our University in Pula, Istrian region, Croatia, and our students can study Croatian language. www.ffpu.hr Best regards, Irena Mikulaco -- Iskon.DUO surfajte brze i telefonirajte duze. Vise na: http://www.iskon.hr ili 0800 1000. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT Fri Mar 7 10:18:25 2008 From: gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT (Giampaolo Gandolfo) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:18:25 +0100 Subject: Aleksandr Nevskij Message-ID: I am most grateful to those who so promptly helped me in finding the text to the sung parts in Aleksandr Nevskij cantata (I needed them for a lecture on Ejzenshtejn's career) Sincerely Giampaolo Gandolfo ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vailletn at DICKINSON.EDU Fri Mar 7 14:29:12 2008 From: vailletn at DICKINSON.EDU (Nathan Vaillette) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:29:12 -0600 Subject: Czech courses in the Czech Republic? Message-ID: Hi all, I'm looking for information on Czech language instruction in the Czech Republic during the summer of 2008. I have for instance found information on summer schools in Prague and Olomouc associated with the universities: http://lsss.ff.cuni.cz/english/index.php http://lsss.upol.cz/en/index-en.html I was wondering if anyone knows of other offerings (not only of the "summer school" variety, e.g. Czech-for-foreigners adult education), or of some source that collects information about various such offerings. Thanks in advance, Nathan Vaillette Adjunct Professor of Linguistics and Computer Science Dickinson College http://users.dickinson.edu/~vailletn/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bmdamare at UMICH.EDU Fri Mar 7 16:12:00 2008 From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU (bmdamare at UMICH.EDU) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 11:12:00 -0500 Subject: Czech courses in the Czech Republic? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There is also a program run with Masaryk University in Brno that includes both summer and longer-term courses in Czech for foreigners. More info here: http://www.phil.muni.cz/kabcest/en/summer-school.php Brad Damare' Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Michigan Quoting Nathan Vaillette : > Hi all, > > I'm looking for information on Czech language instruction in the Czech > Republic during the summer of 2008. I have for instance found information > on summer schools in Prague and Olomouc associated with the universities: > > http://lsss.ff.cuni.cz/english/index.php > http://lsss.upol.cz/en/index-en.html > > I was wondering if anyone knows of other offerings (not only of the "summer > school" variety, e.g. Czech-for-foreigners adult education), or of some > source that collects information about various such offerings. > > Thanks in advance, > > Nathan Vaillette > Adjunct Professor of Linguistics and Computer Science > Dickinson College > http://users.dickinson.edu/~vailletn/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tritt002 at TC.UMN.EDU Fri Mar 7 16:46:01 2008 From: tritt002 at TC.UMN.EDU (Michael Trittipo) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 10:46:01 -0600 Subject: Czech courses in the Czech Republic? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Fri, 7 Mar 2008 08:29:12 -0600 Nathan Vaillette wrote: > I'm looking for information on Czech language instruction in the Czech > Republic during the summer of 2008. I have ... found information > on summer schools in Prague and Olomouc associated with the universities: > > http://lsss.ff.cuni.cz/english/index.php > http://lsss.upol.cz/en/index-en.html > > I was wondering if anyone knows of other offerings ... Yes. Besides the programs in Prague and Olomouc, there's one in Brno with a good reputation, and others elsewhere. Link for Brno here: http://www.phil.muni.cz/kabcest/cs/letni-skola-slovanskych-studii.php A search on "letní škola slovanských studií" site:.cz just like that (with the quotation marks and including the site delimiter) will find the others, such as the one in České Budějovice, and their application forms, prices, and so forth. If you _don't_ want to limit the time frame to special summer classes, you can find other programs with a search on "češtiny pro cizince" univerzita katedra to find entries such as "kabinet|kursy|výuka češtiny" and so on, while also taking out a lot of chaff from non-school pages. Good luck. Michael Trittipo Minneapolis, Minnesota ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Fri Mar 7 17:46:11 2008 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 17:46:11 +0000 Subject: Da tishe ty, domovoy! Message-ID: Dear all, These words are spoken by a peasant in Platonov’s Kotlovan. He is addressing a bear who is working, zealously but incompetently, in the blacksmith’s forge. The bear has already been addressed as ‘chort’. In a few lines time another peasant will say to the bear: ‘Vyidi ostyn’, dyavol! Umoris’, ‘idol sherstyanoy!’ Any suggestions for translations of ‘domovoy’ and ‘idol sherstyanoy?’ – Ты, Мишь, бей с отжошкой, тогда шина хрустка не будет и не лопнет. А ты лупишь по железу, как по стерве, а оно ведь тоже добро! Так – не дело! Но медведь открыл на Елисея рот и Елисей отошел прочь, тоскуя о железе. Однако и другие мужики тоже не могли более терпеть порчи: – Слабже бей, чорт! – загудели они. – Не гадь всеобщего: теперь имущество что сирота, пожалеть некому... Да тише ты, домовой! – Что ты так сóдишь по железу?! Что оно – единоличное что-ль? – Выйди остынь, дьявол! Уморись, идол шерстяной! At present we have, for the last four of these lines: ‘Don’t beat so hard, you old devil!’ they wailed. ‘Don’t damage what’s shared by us all! Property’s like an orphan now – there’s no one to pity it... Take it easy, you demon!’ ‘Why bash the iron like that? It doesn’t belong to some privateer of a kulak, is it?’ ‘Go and cool off outside, you devil! Pack it in, you fur-covered fiend!’ Ever hopefully, Robert [1] <#_ftnref1> The French Slavist Annie Epelboin has written with regard to this scene, ‘The bear symbolizes a prehistoric future. (…) He casts doubt on the validity of the creation myth itself. As an “unknown proletarian”, representing the people as a whole, and as a blacksmith, the bear is reminiscent of the “hammerer-bear” of Siberian myth who, by inventing the forge, inaugurates cosmic and social order, presiding over the creation of the world. Platonov’s bear, however, does not so much create the world as annihilate it. He is, at least potentially, the agent of ultimate destruction. Wanting to force open the doors of the future, he threatens to return the world to primordial chaos. Wanting to force the pace, to accelerate time, he shows us that time is reversible. [Annie Epelboin, ‘Metaphorical Animals and the Proletariat’ in Essays in Poetics, Autumn 2002, vol. 27 (Keele: Keele University), p. 181. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Marshall at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG Fri Mar 7 17:45:38 2008 From: Marshall at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG (Camelot Marshall) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 12:45:38 -0500 Subject: Professional Development Summer Seminar Message-ID: Professional Development Seminar for Teachers of Russian in 2008: Preparing for AP(r) Russian Language and Culture Course and Examination American Council of Teachers of Russian is pleased to announce the 2008 Professional Development Seminar for Teachers of Russian, to be held at Bryn Mawr College July 5-11, 2008, travel days being July 5th and 11th. Currently 50 teachers of Russian have attended the professional development seminar. The 2008 seminar at Bryn Mawr is of particular interest to schools planning to offer AP(r) Russian (when it becomes available) and who wish to move forward with the Prototype AP(r) Russian Program now available through ACTR by agreement with the College Board. Participants will learn about the goals and practices of the Advanced Placement(r) Program with special emphasis on the new Russian Web-based curriculum and teacher authoring tools especially designed for the Prototype AP(r) Russian Language and Culture Course. Teachers will also be become familiar with the design and approach to language assessment represented by the forthcoming standards-based Prototype AP(r) Russian Language and Culture Exam, which is administered at the end of the course. Upon successful completion of the seminar, participants will receive a certificate in recognition of their training and one graduate unit (4 hours) of academic credit from Bryn Mawr College, and they will become a member of select teachers who offer the Prototype AP(r) Russian Language and Culture Course and Exam at their schools. The seminar is led by a group of peer-mentors, current teachers of Russian who have piloted the advanced Russian course in their classrooms, as well as specialists from ACTR and the Bryn Mawr Department of Russian. Partial fellowships will be available to qualified U.S. teachers to attend the 2008 seminar. Each year, a number of school districts also elect to support their teachers in this important professional development program for teachers of Russian. The workshop coincides with the annual Bryn Mawr Russian Language Institute, an annual summer immersion language program that provides additional opportunities for using Russian outside of the seminar sessions. The Professional Development Seminar is open to high school teachers interested in starting an Advanced Placement Russian Program. For more information and application form contact: Camelot Marshall (marshall at americancouncils.org) Application Deadline: May 16, 2008 Space is limited. Camelot Marshall, Ph.D. Research Specialist, Second Language Acquisition Assessment and Curriculum Development and Multimedia American Councils 1776 Massachusetts Ave., NW Suite 700 Washington, DC 20036 202.833.7522 202.833.7523 (fax) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From em2328 at COLUMBIA.EDU Fri Mar 7 21:49:01 2008 From: em2328 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Ester Murdukhayeva) Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2008 16:49:01 -0500 Subject: THE BIRCH: Back Issues & Submissions Message-ID: Dear friends, I'm very happy to say that the complimentary back issues of THE BIRCH, the undergraduate Eastern European and Eurasian affairs journal, have finally been sent out! I apologize for the horrifically long delay - as an undergraduate student group, we have an extremely difficult time raising funds and for a venture this great, we faced quite a few roadblocks. I am glad that the issues are finally on their way and that people across the nation will have a chance to see the work we've been doing. Additionally, we would /greatly/ appreciate if you would encourage undergraduates to submit pieces and especially photography for the upcoming spring issue. Our fall issue was so fantastic because of the superb submissions we received from schools all over the world - we'd love to replicate this! The call for submissions is below. I appreciate everyone's help, support and kind words. Best, Ester Murdukhayeva Editor-in-Chief THE BIRCH --------------------------------------------------------------------- The Birch, the nation's first and only undergraduate journal of Eastern European and Eurasian culture and affairs, now in it's 4th year of publication, is looking for submissions for its Spring 2008 issues. All undergraduates are welcome to submit any of the following: - Original literary works - Literary criticism - Cultural and political essays - Original photography. Our Fall 2007 issue, as well as all our archived issues are available at http://www.thebirchonline.org. Please help to make this a great issue by encouraging all undergraduates to submit pieces. *The deadline for submission is March 19th.* They should be emailed to Editor in Chief, Ester Murdukhayeva, at em2328 at columbia.edu . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From suzanne.faigan at ANU.EDU.AU Fri Mar 7 23:04:22 2008 From: suzanne.faigan at ANU.EDU.AU (Suzanne Faigan) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:04:22 +1300 Subject: Pronunciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Also: What can I do? Водки найду! On 07/03/2008, at 8:38 AM, Emily Saunders wrote: > Hello, > > I'd forgotten about Sen'ka's myach. A very good example, though > the version I heard was Sen'ka verni myach/Сенька верни мяч. > Either would do the trick! > > Emily > > On Mar 6, 2008, at 1:03 AM, Nathan Longan wrote: > >> Emily, >> Сенька бери мяч >> otherwise pronounced "Thank you very much." >> >> As for funny pronunciation coincidences, how about the Russian >> word for >> "boxwood"? That made for one of the funniest English language >> excursions >> ever. The young guide couldn't remember the name of the wood that >> a certain >> piece of furniture was made from so she just stuck the Russian >> word in, >> hoping that it might fit. It certainly fit, but not the way she >> thought it >> would: >> >> "Here we have an excellent example of a cabinet from a French >> workshop of >> the 18th century. The cabinet and all the details were >> painstakingly carved >> from..., carved from ..., they were carved from, from, from ... >> самшит, for >> a beautiful effect." >> >> Well, the effect was indeed spectacular, and everyone learned >> (later) how to >> say "boxwood" in Russian. Boxwood (buxus) is just a bush so I'm >> not sure >> how they actually built a cabinet from it, but it definitely >> livened up the >> excursion. >> >> NL >> >> 2008/3/5 Robert Chandler : >> >>> Thank you, Emily, for reintroducing a welcome note of humour into >>> this >>> discussion! >>> >>> Best Wishes, >>> >>> R. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Hello, >>>> >>>> I feel compelled to differ on the point that ribald or off-color >>>> mnemonic devices are across the board 100% inappropriate. It >>>> really >>>> should depend upon the student group and the teacher's >>>> discretion. A >>>> class of high school students? Probably best not to mention it. >>>> British sailors? It may serve to lighten the mood and produce a >>>> chuckle. Learning a language, in my opinion, is first and foremost >>>> fun. We do not just use language for cultural edification but also >>>> for punning and joking with our fellow men (and women). >>>> >>>> So to lighten up this discussion a little I thought I might forward >>>> along some "mnemonic-esque" devices that go the other way. Perhaps >>>> some of you have seen these before as they were circulating >>>> around the >>>> internet a few years ago. They're not exactly the same thing as >>>> the >>>> donkey device, but close enough to be illustrative of the fun >>>> one can >>>> have with wordplay. >>>> >>>> Emily Saunders >>>> >>>> P.S. Having taught English to Russians (as I'm sure have many >>>> SEELANGSovtsy, I can personally vouch for the fact that any >>>> question >>>> beginning "Who is...?" tends to promote snickers -- at least >>>> initially >>>> and then they get over it. >>>> >>>> P.P.S. My apologies for a few off color words (or implied off >>>> color >>>> words) in the list below. Getting rid of them would lose the joke. >>>> The last three may take some puzzling out... >>>> >>>> *** >>>> >>>> Genial Translations - Гениальные Переводы >>>> Can you hear me? --- Ты можешь меня здесь? >>>> Manicure -- Деньги лечат >>>> I'm just asking. -- Я всего лишь король жоп. >>>> I have been there. -- У меня там фасоль >>>> God only knows --- Единственный нос бога >>>> We are the champions. -- Мы шампиньоны. >>>> You feel alright? -- Ты справа всех чувствуешь >>>> Bye bye baby, baby good bye. -- Купи купи ребенка, >>>> ребенок хорошая покупка >>>> To be or not to be -- Две пчелы или не две пчелы >>>> I fell in love. -- Я свалился в любовь. >>>> Just in case -- Только в портфеле >>>> Oh, dear -- Ах, олень. >>>> I saw my honey today. -- Я пилил мой мед сегодня. >>>> I'm going to make you mine. -- Я иду копать тебе >>>> шахту. >>>> May God be with you -- Майская хорошая пчелка с >>>> тобой. >>>> Good products -- Бог на стороне уток >>>> I've just seen your balance sheet -- Видел я ваш >>>> баланс...так себе баланс >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mar 4, 2008, at 12:09 PM, Stephanie Sures wrote: >>>> >>>>> Agreed. It's sloppy. And, dare I suggest...culturally insulting. >>>>> >>>>> When I took my first Introductory Russian course over 5 years >>>>> ago, we >>>>> learned words simply by reading and hearing our professor say >>>>> them. >>>>> Drills, >>>>> exercises, role-plays with classmates - with the words exactly as >>>>> they were >>>>> written, practising until we could say them in our sleep. >>>>> There's no >>>>> reason >>>>> to lower ourselves to debasing any language with mockery. To do >>>>> otherwise >>>>> denotes a lack of respect and cultural sensitivity. Isn't a >>>>> love of >>>>> culture >>>>> partly why we study languages other than our own? >>>>> >>>>> Consider how English speakers would feel if, in the course of >>>>> teaching ESL >>>>> to non-English speakers, a phrase in another language was >>>>> rendered so >>>>> crudely. I don't think we would stand for it. Wouldn't we be >>>>> bothered by it? >>>>> >>>>> Stephanie Sures >>>>> B.A., Russian; Honours Psychology student >>>>> University of Manitoba, Canada >>>>> >>>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- >>>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>>>> subscription >>>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web >>>>> Interface at: >>>>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- >>>> >>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- >>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>>> subscription >>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web >>>> Interface at: >>>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>> subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >>> at: >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ----- >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Nathan Longan, PhD >> Resident Director >> CIEE Study Center >> St. Petersburg, Russia > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM Sat Mar 8 15:47:49 2008 From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 07:47:49 -0800 Subject: a possibly minority position In-Reply-To: <006101c87fc1$79c9e7b0$6501a8c0@your46e94owx6a> Message-ID: God bless you, Michele and Kim, I happened to be in Tbilisi in 1986 in our hotel bar where there was a television broadcasting Gorbachev's speech after his meeting with Reagan in Iceland. Gorby referred to Reagan as: "Meestir Prezeedent Ray Gun!" I found it charming. Of course, Gorby is infamous in Russia for trotting out his version of English "Who's who?": "Khoo--ees--khoo?"! Jerry Katsell -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim Braithwaite Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:37 AM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position God bless you, Michele Mr Kim Braithwaite, Translator "Good is better than Evil, because it's nicer" - Mammy Yokum (Al Capp) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michele A. Berdy" To: Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position I have no idea what phonetic rendering of Medvedev will be easiest for English-speakers to pronounce. It's definitely a difficult name for non-Russian speakers. But I think that if people get the stress right and most of the sounds -- that will be just fine. Because (in a small voice) I don't think it's such a big deal. For 8 years Russians have called the US president Mr Boosh. They call the first US president something like Dzhyorch Vashinkton. (And don't forget that famous writer Gerbert Ooels.) That's not disrespect or butchering the names -- it's just the best they can do with their transliteration and phonetic systems. Somehow we have all survived without a serious international incident. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From thorstensson at WISC.EDU Sat Mar 8 16:15:35 2008 From: thorstensson at WISC.EDU (Victoria Thorstensson) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 11:15:35 -0500 Subject: Evgenii Onegin -- as anime In-Reply-To: <000c01c88133$c36c29a0$6401a8c0@D569F421> Message-ID: Hello all, Last December, during a very interesting panel at AATSEEL, there was a conversation about reflections of Evgenii Onegin in popular (and youth) culture. For those, who found it fascinating then--and for others who are interested in the topic --I suggest looking at this link: http://www.dreamloregames.com/onegin/index.htm The game is still in development, but it could be fun to follow and see where it leads. Vsekh otmechaiushchikh s prazdnikom 8 marta! Vika Thorstensson, UW-Madison ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT Sat Mar 8 16:40:35 2008 From: gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT (Giampaolo Gandolfo) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 17:40:35 +0100 Subject: Nevskij's cantata Message-ID: In Aleksandr Nevskij's cantata (Prokof'ev) the invading crusaders sing a song in Latin, where two lines don't make sense to me: Peregrinus expectavi pedes meos in cimbalis Vincant arma crucifera! Hostis pereat! What is the meaning of the first two lines? They dont make any sense to me, neither grammatically nor logically; and how do they relate to the first two? Any idea? Thank you. Giampaolo Gandolfo -- Io utilizzo la versione gratuita di SPAMfighter per utenti privati. Sino ad ora ha rimosso 391 mail spam. Gli utenti paganti non hanno questo messaggio nelle loro email . Prova gratuitamente SPAMfighter qui:http://www.spamfighter.com/lit ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sak5w at VIRGINIA.EDU Sat Mar 8 18:00:54 2008 From: sak5w at VIRGINIA.EDU (Sergey Karpukhin) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:00:54 -0600 Subject: Nevskij's cantata In-Reply-To: <000a01c8813b$226c0fe0$0302a8c0@portatile> Message-ID: Dear Giampaolo (if I may), Please see: http://en.allexperts.com/q/Latin-2145/Medieval-Latin.htm. Best, SK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Giampaolo Gandolfo" To: Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 10:40 AM Subject: [SEELANGS] Nevskij's cantata In Aleksandr Nevskij's cantata (Prokof'ev) the invading crusaders sing a song in Latin, where two lines don't make sense to me: Peregrinus expectavi pedes meos in cimbalis Vincant arma crucifera! Hostis pereat! What is the meaning of the first two lines? They dont make any sense to me, neither grammatically nor logically; and how do they relate to the first two? Any idea? Thank you. Giampaolo Gandolfo -- Io utilizzo la versione gratuita di SPAMfighter per utenti privati. Sino ad ora ha rimosso 391 mail spam. Gli utenti paganti non hanno questo messaggio nelle loro email . Prova gratuitamente SPAMfighter qui:http://www.spamfighter.com/lit ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU Sat Mar 8 18:08:22 2008 From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 13:08:22 -0500 Subject: a possibly minority position Message-ID: Jerry, Mocking a foreign accent is not the same as talking about the way a foreign name is rendered in another language, according to its phonetic rules, by its own native speakers. This difference is crucial. What you are doing by equating the two phonetic butcherings is politically incorrect. I don't think it is too big a deal morally--as political correctness, to me, has very little to do with tact or respect--but some people would actually be offended. Just you wait 'till I hear you speak Russian, not pronounce Russian names while speaking in English! My own accent is strong but concerns mostly the non-aspiration of consonants--because my adviser and life-long mentor Bob Belknap once carefully explained to me the difference between short and long [i] vowels in English (roughly, the former being back and the latter front). So I feel near-indignant not on my own behalf but for my compatriots. Just you wait 'till I hear you speak Russian, not pronounce Russian names while speakin g in English! o.m. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Katsell Date: Saturday, March 8, 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position > God bless you, Michele and Kim, > > I happened to be in Tbilisi in 1986 in our hotel bar where there > was a > television broadcasting Gorbachev's speech after his meeting with > Reaganin Iceland. Gorby referred to Reagan as: "Meestir Prezeedent > Ray Gun!" I > found it charming. Of course, Gorby is infamous in Russia for trotting > out his version of English "Who's who?": "Khoo--ees--khoo?"! > > Jerry Katsell > > -----Original Message----- > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list > [SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim Braithwaite > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:37 AM > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position > > God bless you, Michele > > Mr Kim Braithwaite, Translator > "Good is better than Evil, because it's nicer" - Mammy Yokum (Al > Capp) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michele A. Berdy" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:40 AM > Subject: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position > > > I have no idea what phonetic rendering of Medvedev will be easiest > for > English-speakers to pronounce. It's definitely a difficult name for > non-Russian speakers. But I think that if people get the stress right > and > most of the sounds -- that will be just fine. Because (in a small > voice)I > don't think it's such a big deal. For 8 years Russians have called the > US > president Mr Boosh. They call the first US president something like > Dzhyorch > Vashinkton. (And don't forget that famous writer Gerbert Ooels.) > That'snot > disrespect or butchering the names -- it's just the best they can do > with > their transliteration and phonetic systems. Somehow we have all > survived > without a serious international incident. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > - > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > - > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > - > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > - > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pr52 at CORNELL.EDU Sat Mar 8 19:34:46 2008 From: pr52 at CORNELL.EDU (Philip Robinson) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 14:34:46 -0500 Subject: Online version of Zaliznjak Message-ID: Dear SEELANGS, Is anyone aware of a publicly accessible online version of Zaliznjak's "Grammaticheskij slovar' russkogo jazyka"? I have searched for a bit but to no avail. Many thanks, Phil Robinson Dept. of Linguistics Cornell University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Danko.Sipka at ASU.EDU Sat Mar 8 19:59:49 2008 From: Danko.Sipka at ASU.EDU (Danko Sipka) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:59:49 -0700 Subject: Online version of Zaliznjak Message-ID: Here it is, I am not sure if its use is legit: http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/main.cgi?flags=wygtmnl Best, Danko Danko Sipka Editor, Journal of Less Commonly Taught Languages http://www.councilnet.org/jctl/index.htm Professor of Slavic Languages School of International Letters and Cultures Arizona State University Web: http://www.public.asu.edu/~dsipka Mail: Danko.Sipka at asu.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Robinson" To: Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 12:34 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] Online version of Zaliznjak > Dear SEELANGS, > > Is anyone aware of a publicly accessible online version of > Zaliznjak's "Grammaticheskij slovar' russkogo jazyka"? I have > searched for a bit but to no avail. > > Many thanks, > > Phil Robinson > Dept. of Linguistics > Cornell University > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From camcdoug at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Sat Mar 8 20:06:37 2008 From: camcdoug at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Candice A McDougall) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 12:06:37 -0800 Subject: Online version of Zaliznjak In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20080308142831.02d8f128@cornell.edu> Message-ID: Dear SEELANGS, I think this one is publicly available. It's actually a morphological database based on Zalizniak, set up to be searchable in different ways. May be very useful, depending on what you want to do with it. http://courses.washington.edu/morph/ Candice McDougall Philip Robinson wrote: > Dear SEELANGS, > > Is anyone aware of a publicly accessible online version of Zaliznjak's > "Grammaticheskij slovar' russkogo jazyka"? I have searched for a bit > but to no avail. > > Many thanks, > > Phil Robinson > Dept. of Linguistics > Cornell University > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Sat Mar 8 21:43:01 2008 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 21:43:01 +0000 Subject: Nevskij's cantata In-Reply-To: <000a01c8813b$226c0fe0$0302a8c0@portatile> Message-ID: The words don't make sense as a continuous text in Latin, as has been noted in a number of places on the internet, but in a letter 'Prokofiev and his Cymbals' by Morag G. Kerr, in the The Musical Times, Vol. 135, No. 1820. (Oct., 1994), pp. 608-609 (available via JSTOR), it is pointed out that the words are separate phrases from the text chosen by Stravinsky for his Symphony of Psalms and may have been a bit of a joke. It is the most plausible explanation I have seen. Will Ryan The Musical Times, Vol. 135, No. 1820. (Oct., 1994), pp. 608-609. Giampaolo Gandolfo wrote: > In Aleksandr Nevskij's cantata (Prokof'ev) the invading crusaders sing a song in Latin, where two lines don't make sense to me: > > Peregrinus expectavi > pedes meos in cimbalis > Vincant arma crucifera! > Hostis pereat! > > What is the meaning of the first two lines? They dont make any sense to me, neither grammatically nor logically; and how do they relate to the first two? > Any idea? Thank you. > Giampaolo Gandolfo > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gusejnov at GOOGLEMAIL.COM Sat Mar 8 21:52:39 2008 From: gusejnov at GOOGLEMAIL.COM (Gasan Gusejnov) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 16:52:39 -0500 Subject: Online version of Zaliznjak In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20080308142831.02d8f128@cornell.edu> Message-ID: see also gg 2008/3/8, Philip Robinson : > > Dear SEELANGS, > > Is anyone aware of a publicly accessible online version of > Zaliznjak's "Grammaticheskij slovar' russkogo jazyka"? I have > searched for a bit but to no avail. > > Many thanks, > > Phil Robinson > Dept. of Linguistics > Cornell University > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Dr. Gasan Gusejnov / Гасан Гусейнов January thru March 2008: Visiting Professor Russian Department Dartmouth College +1 603 707 6528 home +1 603 6463517 office Leipzig: Sasstrasse 34 D-04155 Leipzig +49 341 2273713 +49 341 5503133 Москва 119992 г.Москва ГСП-2 Ленинские Горы I Гуманитарный корпус филологический факультет кафедра классической филологии +7 4959392006 мобильный: +7 926 9179192 домашний: +7 499 7370810 From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Sat Mar 8 22:25:05 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:25:05 -0000 Subject: Pronunciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" Message-ID: Thankyou to colleagues who responded on this. I couldn't help a smile when the thread led to cabinet making, as I had taken a few days off to make a cupboard. To put the record straight about "samshit", boxwood, there are about 70 varieties of this tree / bush. The wood has a vary dense quality, widely used for carving, eg chess pieces, and for inlays in decorative carpentry. I was surprised by the intensity of some of the responses to my query. It seems that "a**" is much more rude in American English than in British English. Here it just means "donkey". We have sold 15,000 copies of Ruslan 1 in the UK with this mnemonic, without a single critical comment, to my knowledge. "Does your a** fit you?" really does help with the teaching of the pronounciation of this difficult but essential word. Once students have memorised the basic sounds the teacher can fine tune the pronunciation without the learners forgetting the basic parts of the word each time they look away from the board. I have to confess to a bias in this area. I never liked formal phonetics and have to date managed passably well without them. They seem to me to be too difficult for many students, and overall counter-productive. The majority of learners want to concentrate on meaning and on being able to communicate, not on perfect pronounciation. To just teach "Privyet" isn't an answer. Your learners might want to greet someone important, or perhaps a police officer in a bad mood ... Thankyou to Emily Saunders for a wonderful list of Russian > English renderings. Very memorable. Thanks to John Dunn for putting things in a practical context. I checked with the person who first told me this trick (a former student of mine). It was indeed from his uncle, now in mid 70s, who had learned Russian for work on the Arctic convoys! Now I have to decide whether to include this mnemonic in the US edition of my Ruslan course. Maybe not, if it will lead some teachers into discipline problems. Linked to this, I have queries about games in the classroom and about the use of simple songs for learning. I'll ask them separately, later. John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From G.Chew at RHUL.AC.UK Sat Mar 8 22:57:11 2008 From: G.Chew at RHUL.AC.UK (Chew G) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 22:57:11 -0000 Subject: Nevskij's cantata Message-ID: Morag Kerr in the letter quoted by Will Ryan, stressing the bad blood between Prokofiev and Stravinsky, doesn't mention another dimension. Prokofiev, while still in Paris, sent Stravinsky scores to his friend Myaskovsky in Russia, at a time (the 1930s) when contacts with western music were reduced. And the Symphony of Psalms was, oddly enough, one of the scores acquired by the Moscow Composers' Union in 1933, so it wouldn't have been difficult for Prokofiev, now back in the Soviet Union, to refer back to the Stravinsky, once he'd decided that real medieval Latin hymns were too outre even for the Eisenstein film. (See Caroline Brooke, "Soviet Music in the International Arena, 1932-1941", in European History Quarterly, 31/2 (2001), 231-64, esp. p. 235.) The text of the cantata can only, I think, be a reference to Stravinsky's "Catholic psalms". Geoffrey Chew Institute of Musicology, Masaryk University, Brno chewg at seznam.cz Department of Music, Royal Holloway, University of London g.chew at rhul.ac.uk ________________________________ From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of William Ryan Sent: Sat 8.3.08 21:43 To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Nevskij's cantata The words don't make sense as a continuous text in Latin, as has been noted in a number of places on the internet, but in a letter 'Prokofiev and his Cymbals' by Morag G. Kerr, in the The Musical Times, Vol. 135, No. 1820. (Oct., 1994), pp. 608-609 (available via JSTOR), it is pointed out that the words are separate phrases from the text chosen by Stravinsky for his Symphony of Psalms and may have been a bit of a joke. It is the most plausible explanation I have seen. Will Ryan The Musical Times, Vol. 135, No. 1820. (Oct., 1994), pp. 608-609. Giampaolo Gandolfo wrote: > In Aleksandr Nevskij's cantata (Prokof'ev) the invading crusaders sing a song in Latin, where two lines don't make sense to me: > > Peregrinus expectavi > pedes meos in cimbalis > Vincant arma crucifera! > Hostis pereat! > > What is the meaning of the first two lines? They dont make any sense to me, neither grammatically nor logically; and how do they relate to the first two? > Any idea? Thank you. > Giampaolo Gandolfo > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: msg-1882-261.txt URL: From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Sat Mar 8 23:05:06 2008 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 23:05:06 +0000 Subject: A Chekhov story Message-ID: Dear all, A friend has asked me this: ŒHave you come across a short story by Chekhov in which a doctor whose child has just died is summoned by a man whose wife has just left him. It poses the question whether such different kinds of suffering can be equated.¹ Does anyone know the title and approximate date? Thanks! R. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ycorriga at PRINCETON.EDU Sat Mar 8 23:11:52 2008 From: ycorriga at PRINCETON.EDU (Yuri F Corrigan (ycorriga@Princeton.EDU)) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 18:11:52 -0500 Subject: A Chekhov story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Vragi" ("Enemies") (1887). ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Chandler Date: Saturday, March 8, 2008 6:05 pm Subject: [SEELANGS] A Chekhov story To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > Dear all, > > A friend has asked me this: > > ŒHave you come across a short story by Chekhov in which a doctor > whose child > has just died is summoned by a man whose wife has just left him. It > posesthe question whether such different kinds of suffering can be > equated.¹ > Does anyone know the title and approximate date? > > Thanks! > > R. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cp18 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sat Mar 8 23:12:49 2008 From: cp18 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Cathy Popkin) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 18:12:49 -0500 Subject: A Chekhov story In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Vragi" (1887) --On Saturday, March 08, 2008 11:05 PM +0000 Robert Chandler wrote: > Dear all, > > A friend has asked me this: > > ?Have you come across a short story by Chekhov in which a doctor whose > child has just died is summoned by a man whose wife has just left him. It > poses the question whether such different kinds of suffering can be > equated.¹ > > Does anyone know the title and approximate date? > > Thanks! > > R. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nataliek at UALBERTA.CA Sat Mar 8 23:26:20 2008 From: nataliek at UALBERTA.CA (nataliek at UALBERTA.CA) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 16:26:20 -0700 Subject: Teaching Materials Website Message-ID: The Kule Centre for Ukrainian and Canadian Folklore is pleased to announce a major update to its Shkola website at http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/Shkola. This website assembles materials for the Ukrainian bilingual program. It contains pictures and videos from Ukraine. Emphasis is on children and their lives. We show a city apartment and a village house. Both are available in 3-D Virtual Reality so that the visitor can “walk around” the dwelling and look inside various rooms. Several of the dwellings have “guided tours” provided by the Ukrainian child living there. There are pictures of household items such as furniture and household goods such as milk, juice, bread, and so forth. One village has a short video of baba providing a tour of her garden and speaking about her vegetables. There are units on shopping and on transportation. The shopping unit shows stores, kiosks, markets, and the products sold in each. One unit shows schools. It includes pictures of school interiors, children providing tours of the school, and a video of the “first bell,” the ceremony marking the beginning of the school year. The unit on games has children introducing themselves, then giving a description of their games, then demonstrating how each game is played. Some units have an interactive “find the (moloko, boroshno, derevo, domovyk)” feature and more such “quizzes” are being constructed. Workbooks that can be downloaded and printed out are also planned. The text is in Ukrainian and the materials selected are geared to the Alberta recommendations for Ukrainian Language Arts: Kindergarten through Grade 9. The website is also being used in Saskatchewan and Manitoba and is under consideration in other provinces. Feedback is welcome. Please write to nataliek at ualberta.ca or peter.holloway at ualberta.ca. Natalie Kononenko Kule Chair of Ukrainian Ethnography University of Alberta Modern Languages and Cultural Studies 200 Arts Building Edmonton, Alberta, Canada T6G 2E6 Phone: 780-492-6810 Web: http://www.arts.ualberta.ca/uvp/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bigjim at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Sun Mar 9 01:34:30 2008 From: bigjim at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (augerot) Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 17:34:30 -0800 Subject: Online version of Zaliznjak In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20080308142831.02d8f128@cornell.edu> Message-ID: try On Sat, 8 Mar 2008, Philip Robinson wrote: > Dear SEELANGS, > > Is anyone aware of a publicly accessible online version of Zaliznjak's > "Grammaticheskij slovar' russkogo jazyka"? I have searched for a bit > but to no avail. > > Many thanks, > > Phil Robinson > Dept. of Linguistics > Cornell University > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Sun Mar 9 11:54:30 2008 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:54:30 +0100 Subject: a possibly minority position Message-ID: I think that in fairness to Gorbachev it ought to be pointed out that what he actually said (in his post-putsch press-conference of 22 August 1991) was: Мы знаем что такое, как говорил один, кто есть ху [My znaem chto takoe, kak govoril odin, kto est' khu] This is rather different and shows that he knew exactly what he was doing (which is why infamous is not perhaps quite the right word). But what I would like to know is this: who is the mysterious 'odin' whom Gorbachev considers to be the real originator of the phrase? Any ideas? John Dunn. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Katsell To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 07:47:49 -0800 Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position God bless you, Michele and Kim, I happened to be in Tbilisi in 1986 in our hotel bar where there was a television broadcasting Gorbachev's speech after his meeting with Reagan in Iceland. Gorby referred to Reagan as: "Meestir Prezeedent Ray Gun!" I found it charming. Of course, Gorby is infamous in Russia for trotting out his version of English "Who's who?": "Khoo--ees--khoo?"! Jerry Katsell John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jm3 at EVANSVILLE.EDU Sun Mar 9 15:53:15 2008 From: jm3 at EVANSVILLE.EDU (Meredig, John) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 10:53:15 -0500 Subject: Another "boxwood" anecdote In-Reply-To: A Message-ID: Nathan Longan's delightful "boxwood" story reminded me of a similar occurrence when I was in third-year Russian oh so many years ago. (WARNING! Anyone offended by overt ribaldry--delete message now!) The teacher had written a long compound sentence on the board, which was held together by a particular conjunction (unfortunately I can't remember the sentence itself, just the relevant conjunction). As we all sat there intently trying to make sense out of this syntactic monstrosity, an exasperated young lady finally raised her hand and said: "I just don't see how the как fits in!" Much merriment ensued. John Meredig -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Nathan Longan Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 3:03 AM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Pronunciation of "Zdravstvyuitye" As for funny pronunciation coincidences, how about the Russian word for "boxwood"? That made for one of the funniest English language excursions ever. The young guide couldn't remember the name of the wood that a certain piece of furniture was made from so she just stuck the Russian word in, hoping that it might fit. It certainly fit, but not the way she thought it would: "Here we have an excellent example of a cabinet from a French workshop of the 18th century. The cabinet and all the details were painstakingly carved from..., carved from ..., they were carved from, from, from ... самшит, for a beautiful effect." Well, the effect was indeed spectacular, and everyone learned (later) how to say "boxwood" in Russian. Boxwood (buxus) is just a bush so I'm not sure how they actually built a cabinet from it, but it definitely livened up the excursion. Nathan Longan, PhD Resident Director CIEE Study Center St. Petersburg, Russia ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From em2328 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sun Mar 9 16:35:02 2008 From: em2328 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Ester Murdukhayeva) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:35:02 -0400 Subject: Prokofiev's THE GAMBLER Message-ID: Dear all, In anticipation of the Metropolitan Opera's spring production of Sergei Prokofiev's The Gambler, THE BIRCH, the nation's only undergraduate journal of Eastern European and Eurasian affairs, will be sponsoring a lecture about the opera at Columbia University. The event will begin at 8pm, with an opening reception of tea, coffee and traditional Russian appetizers at 7:30pm. Simon Morrison of Princeton University, a preeminent Prokofiev scholar, will deliver a lecture about the opera. Following the lecture, one attendee will win two orchestra premium tickets to The Metropolitan Opera's production of Verdi's /Ernani/. This event is free and open to all. We are working to confirm performers from the Russian Chamber Chorus of New York to sing selections from the opera. I really hope those of you in the area will be able to attend. If you would like to be put on the guest list, please send an email to THE BIRCH's Business Manager, Sierra Perez-Sparks, at sjp2124 at columbia.edu, with your name and affiliation. She will provide further details about the venue and directions. Best, Ester Murdukhayeva Editor-in-Chief THE BIRCH ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From em2328 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sun Mar 9 16:46:56 2008 From: em2328 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Ester Murdukhayeva) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:46:56 -0400 Subject: Prokofiev's THE GAMBLER Message-ID: Dear all, In anticipation of the Metropolitan Opera's spring production of Sergei Prokofiev's The Gambler, THE BIRCH, the nation's only undergraduate journal of Eastern European and Eurasian affairs, will be sponsoring a lecture about the opera at Columbia University. The event will begin at 8pm, with an opening reception of tea, coffee and traditional Russian appetizers at 7:30pm. Simon Morrison of Princeton University, a preeminent Prokofiev scholar, will deliver a lecture about the opera. Following the lecture, one attendee will win two orchestra premium tickets to The Metropolitan Opera's production of Verdi's /Ernani/. This event is free and open to all. We are working to confirm performers from the Russian Chamber Chorus of New York to sing selections from the opera. I really hope those of you in the area will be able to attend. If you would like to be put on the guest list, please send an email to THE BIRCH's Business Manager, Sierra Perez-Sparks, at sjp2124 at columbia.edu, with your name and affiliation. She will provide further details about the venue and directions. Best, Ester Murdukhayeva Editor-in-Chief THE BIRCH ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM Sun Mar 9 18:06:24 2008 From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 11:06:24 -0700 Subject: a possibly minority position In-Reply-To: <1205063670.404c4e7cJ.Dunn@slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: My Russian sources tell me that Gorbachev intoned the phrase long before the putsch of 22 August 1991. It might be worth noting that Gorbachev tends to pronounce к and г [g] more like х [kh]and also to slur a bit. Perhaps that's how the salacious play on words of "ху есть ху" [khu est' khu--"khu-e" is close in sound to the Russian for "cock"] got started. As to the mysterious, presumably Mr. Odin, Mr. Gorbachev may be the only one who knows. Jerry Katsell -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Dunn Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 4:55 AM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position I think that in fairness to Gorbachev it ought to be pointed out that what he actually said (in his post-putsch press-conference of 22 August 1991) was: Мы знаем что такое, как говорил один, кто есть ху [My znaem chto takoe, kak govoril odin, kto est' khu] This is rather different and shows that he knew exactly what he was doing (which is why infamous is not perhaps quite the right word). But what I would like to know is this: who is the mysterious 'odin' whom Gorbachev considers to be the real originator of the phrase? Any ideas? John Dunn. -----Original Message----- From: Jerry Katsell To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Date: Sat, 8 Mar 2008 07:47:49 -0800 Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position God bless you, Michele and Kim, I happened to be in Tbilisi in 1986 in our hotel bar where there was a television broadcasting Gorbachev's speech after his meeting with Reagan in Iceland. Gorby referred to Reagan as: "Meestir Prezeedent Ray Gun!" I found it charming. Of course, Gorby is infamous in Russia for trotting out his version of English "Who's who?": "Khoo--ees--khoo?"! Jerry Katsell John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From xmas at UKR.NET Sun Mar 9 10:04:32 2008 From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 12:04:32 +0200 Subject: Zalizniak Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I haven't seen these links yet, hope I'm not repeating anybody's posts. теория лежит тут http://zaliznyak-dict.narod.ru/index.htm раскрученная парадигма тут http://speakrus.ru/dict/index.htm#paradigma скрипт тут: http://starling.rinet.ru/morph.htm With best regards, Maria ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rolf.fieguth at UNIFR.CH Sun Mar 9 19:49:32 2008 From: rolf.fieguth at UNIFR.CH (FIEGUTH Rolf) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 20:49:32 +0100 Subject: AW: [SEELANGS] Online version of Zaliznjak Message-ID: Uvazhaemyj Gasan Gusejnov, spasibo za ètot poleznyj adres. Privet, Rolf Fieguth -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list im Auftrag von Gasan Gusejnov Gesendet: Sa 08.03.:52 An: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Betreff: Re: [SEELANGS] Online version of Zaliznjak see also gg ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Marakash at AOL.COM Sun Mar 9 20:49:20 2008 From: Marakash at AOL.COM (Put Your Name Here) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 16:49:20 EDT Subject: Prokofiev's THE GAMBLER Message-ID: Dear Ester, I would like to on the guest list and also have my students on the guest list as well. Please let me know if it's possible. Best wishes, Mara Kashper Senior Associate Slavic Department Barnard College _mkashper at barnard.edu_ (mailto:mkashper at barnard.edu) In a message dated 3/9/2008 4:10:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, em2328 at COLUMBIA.EDU writes: Dear all, In anticipation of the Metropolitan Opera's spring production of Sergei Prokofiev's The Gambler, THE BIRCH, the nation's only undergraduate journal of Eastern European and Eurasian affairs, will be sponsoring a lecture about the opera at Columbia University. The event will begin at 8pm, with an opening reception of tea, coffee and traditional Russian appetizers at 7:30pm. Simon Morrison of Princeton University, a preeminent Prokofiev scholar, will deliver a lecture about the opera. Following the lecture, one attendee will win two orchestra premium tickets to The Metropolitan Opera's production of Verdi's /Ernani/. This event is free and open to all. We are working to confirm performers from the Russian Chamber Chorus of New York to sing selections from the opera. I really hope those of you in the area will be able to attend. If you would like to be put on the guest list, please send an email to THE BIRCH's Business Manager, Sierra Perez-Sparks, at sjp2124 at columbia.edu, with your name and affiliation. She will provide further details about the venue and directions. Best, Ester Murdukhayeva Editor-in-Chief THE BIRCH ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU Mon Mar 10 00:50:06 2008 From: greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Svetlana Grenier) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 20:50:06 -0400 Subject: Prokofiev's THE GAMBLER Message-ID: What us the date of this event??? Thank you! - > > In a message dated 3/9/2008 4:10:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > em2328 at COLUMBIA.EDU writes: > > Dear all, > > In anticipation of the Metropolitan Opera's spring production of > Sergei > Prokofiev's The Gambler, THE BIRCH, the nation's only undergraduate > > journal of Eastern European and Eurasian affairs, will be > sponsoring a > lecture about the opera at Columbia University. The event will > begin at > 8pm, with an opening reception of tea, coffee and traditional > Russian > appetizers at 7:30pm. > Simon Morrison of Princeton University, a preeminent Prokofiev > scholar, > will deliver a lecture about the opera. Following the lecture, one > attendee will win two orchestra premium tickets to The > Metropolitan > Opera's production of Verdi's /Ernani/. > > This event is free and open to all. We are working to confirm > performers > from the Russian Chamber Chorus of New York to sing selections > from the > opera. I really hope those of you in the area will be able to attend. > > If you would like to be put on the guest list, please send an > email to > THE BIRCH's Business Manager, Sierra Perez-Sparks, at > sjp2124 at columbia.edu, with your name and affiliation. She will > provide > further details about the venue and directions. > > Best, > > Ester Murdukhayeva > Editor-in-Chief > THE BIRCH > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscriptionoptions, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web > Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > > > > > **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL > Money & > Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From em2328 at COLUMBIA.EDU Mon Mar 10 01:07:40 2008 From: em2328 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Ester Murdukhayeva) Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2008 21:07:40 -0400 Subject: Prokofiev's THE GAMBLER In-Reply-To: <468b6f469514.469514468b6f@imap.georgetown.edu> Message-ID: Apologies for the multiple emails, but it seems I left out the date from the prior email: The date of this event is Thursday, March 13th. Svetlana Grenier wrote: > What us the date of this event??? > Thank you! > > - > >> In a message dated 3/9/2008 4:10:41 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> em2328 at COLUMBIA.EDU writes: >> >> Dear all, >> >> In anticipation of the Metropolitan Opera's spring production of >> Sergei >> Prokofiev's The Gambler, THE BIRCH, the nation's only undergraduate >> >> journal of Eastern European and Eurasian affairs, will be >> sponsoring a >> lecture about the opera at Columbia University. The event will >> begin at >> 8pm, with an opening reception of tea, coffee and traditional >> Russian >> appetizers at 7:30pm. >> Simon Morrison of Princeton University, a preeminent Prokofiev >> scholar, >> will deliver a lecture about the opera. Following the lecture, one >> attendee will win two orchestra premium tickets to The >> Metropolitan >> Opera's production of Verdi's /Ernani/. >> >> This event is free and open to all. We are working to confirm >> performers >> from the Russian Chamber Chorus of New York to sing selections >> from the >> opera. I really hope those of you in the area will be able to attend. >> >> If you would like to be put on the guest list, please send an >> email to >> THE BIRCH's Business Manager, Sierra Perez-Sparks, at >> sjp2124 at columbia.edu, with your name and affiliation. She will >> provide >> further details about the venue and directions. >> >> Best, >> >> Ester Murdukhayeva >> Editor-in-Chief >> THE BIRCH >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >> subscriptionoptions, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web >> Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL >> Money & >> Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001) >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >> subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS >> Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> -------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ----- >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gbpeirce at PITT.EDU Mon Mar 10 13:11:55 2008 From: gbpeirce at PITT.EDU (Peirce, Gina M) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:11:55 -0400 Subject: Research Fellow Sought for Pittsburgh-Moscow Heritage Speakers Program Message-ID: Research Fellow Sought for University of Pittsburgh's Summer 2008 Russian Heritage Speaker Seminar The University of Pittsburgh's Summer Language Institute (SLI) is seeking a Research Fellow for the 2008 Russian heritage speakers' intensive summer language seminar in Pittsburgh and Moscow. The Research Fellow must be a junior faculty member or advanced graduate student with Russian language teaching experience and native or near-native Russian language proficiency. Through his/her participation in the seminar, the Research Fellow will develop pedagogical strategies for teaching and assessing the progress of heritage learners and gain preparation in designing and teaching courses for such students, who are expected to constitute an increasingly significant portion of enrollment in college Russian language programs in future years. The Research Fellow will observe the Heritage Speaker Seminar class sessions and write a research paper on aspects of the pedagogical challenges facing teachers of heritage speakers, which he/she will be encouraged to publish and/or present to other language instructors at professional meetings in order to disseminate the knowledge gained through the seminar. The Research Fellow will also assist the heritage learners enrolled in the seminar (who will be a combination of graduate and advanced undergraduate students) with designing and carrying out their own individual research projects, using Russian-language research resources. Finally, the Research Fellow will be involved in reviewing the students' final research papers and discussing their evaluation with the Resident Director of the seminar. This process will give the Research Fellow an opportunity to consider ways to assist heritage learners at his/her home institution in developing their academic research and professional writing skills in Russian. The 2008 Russian Heritage Speaker Seminar will take place from June 9-July 11 at the University of Pittsburgh, and then from July 14-August 15 at Moscow State University. While in Moscow, the Research Fellow will reside in a single room in a Moscow State University dormitory, along with the SLI Resident Director, Resident Assistant, and students. The SLI will assist the Research Fellow with housing arrangements for the Pittsburgh portion of the program, if needed. Contingent on the receipt of grant funding for which the SLI has applied, the Research Fellow's airfare to Moscow and a stipend for living expenses will be paid by the SLI. To apply, please send a CV and letter of interest by April 1, 2008 to: Christine Metil, Associate Director Slavic and East European Summer Language Institute University of Pittsburgh 1417 Cathedral of Learning Pittsburgh, PA 15260 E-mail: slavic at pitt.edu For more information on the University of Pittsburgh's Summer Language Institute, please visit http://sli.slavic.pitt.edu. ************************************* Gina M. Peirce Assistant Director Center for Russian and East European Studies University of Pittsburgh 4414 Posvar Hall Pittsburgh, PA 15260 Phone: (412) 648-2290 Fax: (412) 648-7002 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU Mon Mar 10 13:49:31 2008 From: Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU (Ruder, Cynthia A) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 09:49:31 -0400 Subject: Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award--Deadline Soon Message-ID: NOMINATIONS CAN BE SUBMITTED ON A PDF FILE AND SENT VIA E-MAIL IN ORDER TO EXPEDITE RECEIPT OF YOUR NOMINATIONS!!! --Deadline 15 March 2008—LESS THAN ONE WEEK AWAY! Second Annual Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award Colleagues! We thank those who already have submitted a nomination. For those of you who have not.... ACTR is pleased to announce the second annual Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award (PSRSLA). This program at the college/university level recognizes our outstanding students who are studying Russian. In 2007 18 students were nominated by their instructors for this award. The nominations revealed that there are some fantastic, dedicated, talented students in our Russian programs around the country who were honored. This year we would like to double participation in this program which is a wonderful way to applaud the efforts of our best students, while letting them know that we in the field appreciate and value their achievements. Moreover, because this is a selective, national program, students will be able to exploit the award as further testament to their skills and abilities as they enter the job market. The success of this program depends on you and me--Russian instructors at the college/university level. With that in mind I encourage you to nominate a student from your institution to receive this honor. The PSRSLA is a FREE service to the profession; it requires only your participation! In order to assist you in submitting a nomination, please follow these guidelines: 1. Departments (be they independent or part of a larger Modern Language department) may nominate ONE student from either the junior or senior class. Graduate students are NOT eligible for this award. 2. Eligibility is based on achievement and interest in Russian as demonstrated by enrollment in language courses, student GPA, participation in programs such as exchanges, NPSREC (National Post- Secondary Russian Essay Contest), Russian clubs or Russian houses, a Russian major or minor. Note that a Russian major is not necessarily a requirement for the award. We encourage you to nominate that student who is the "star" of your program and who personifies a dedication and commitment to Russian that is unparalleled among her/ his peers. YOU NOMINATE THE STUDENT WHO AUTOMATICALLY THEN BECOMES A Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate. ACTR does NOT select the Awardees; this process is local at your institution. 3. Nominations are to be submitted--electronically or via regular mail--by Department chairpersons/Program Directors. The nomination must be submitted on departmental letterhead. Send the nominations to Prof. Cynthia Ruder at the address below.* 4. **Nominating instructors must be current ACTR members.** **(It is never too late to join ACTR:)). Simply go to the www.americancouncils.org web site. On the main page click the "Get Involved" tab on the left side. Then click "ACTR MEMBERSHIP" from the list in the center of the page. From there either download the membership form and submit it or contact ACTR Secretary George Morris at actrmbrs at sbcglobal.net. It is easy, fast, and inexpensive. Plus you get the ACTR Newsletter and a subscription to RLJ, the Russian Language Journal, with the appropriate membership fee.) 5. DEADLINE FOR NOMINATIONS IS 15 MARCH 2008. Each Laureate will receive notification and an award certificate in April 2008. We encourage you to avail your students of this program--it is free! Help us show our best and brightest students how much we value their commitment to Russian. In order to protect student privacy we do not include awardees' names in the ACTR Newsletter, but we do identify the institutions that have participated. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact me at Cynthia.ruder at uky.edu. I anxiously await your nominations! Sincerely, Cindy Ruder *Cynthia A. Ruder University of Kentucky MCL/Russian & Eastern Studies 1055 Patterson Lexington, KY 40506-0027 859.257.7026 cynthia.ruder at uky.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at ROGERS.COM Mon Mar 10 14:10:18 2008 From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (colkitto) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:10:18 -0400 Subject: Another "boxwood" anecdote Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Meredig, John" To: Sent: Sunday, March 09, 2008 11:53 AM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Another "boxwood" anecdote > Nathan Longan's delightful "boxwood" story reminded me of a similar > occurrence when I was in third-year Russian oh so many years ago. > (WARNING! Anyone offended by overt ribaldry--delete message now!) The > teacher had written a long compound sentence on the board, which was held > together by a particular conjunction (unfortunately I can't remember the > sentence itself, just the relevant conjunction). As we all sat there > intently trying to make sense out of this syntactic monstrosity, an > exasperated young lady finally raised her hand and said: "I just don't see > how the как fits in!" > > Much merriment ensued. > Only in America ........ I had to think about that one . . . . . . . It reminded me of listening to a certain American professor with a heavy accent saying two forms were in "apposition" - which didn't make sense until I realised he meant "opposition" ...... Robert Orr ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon Mar 10 14:42:47 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:42:47 -0400 Subject: Another "boxwood" anecdote In-Reply-To: <004201c882b8$78b74850$a095f163@yourg9zekrp5zf> Message-ID: colkitto wrote: > It reminded me of listening to a certain American professor with a > heavy accent saying two forms were in "apposition" - which didn't > make sense until I realised he meant "opposition" ...... AFAIK, AE "apposition" has /æ/ as in "cat," which cannot possibly be mistaken by another English speaker for our /a/ as in "father" and "opposition," and certainly not for the lightly rounded version that BE has in "opposition." What vowel did your "American" colleague have??? -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kalbouss at MAC.COM Mon Mar 10 14:51:07 2008 From: kalbouss at MAC.COM (George Kalbouss) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 10:51:07 -0400 Subject: Another "boxwood" anecdote In-Reply-To: <004201c882b8$78b74850$a095f163@yourg9zekrp5zf> Message-ID: While we're at it, Back in 1970, I took a group of students to the USSR. As we were pulling into Finland Station, one of the students saw a huge sign on a factory. He looked at the sign and said, "Yes, Hello, Lenin?" George Kalbouss Prof. Emer. The Ohio State University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From obukhina at ACLS.ORG Mon Mar 10 15:58:57 2008 From: obukhina at ACLS.ORG (Olga Bukhina) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:58:57 -0400 Subject: a possibly minority position In-Reply-To: <403ce240a4bd.40a4bd403ce2@imap.georgetown.edu> Message-ID: Dear Olga, Thanks a lot for this letter. Olga Bukhina obukhina at acls.org -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Olga Meerson Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2008 1:08 PM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position Jerry, Mocking a foreign accent is not the same as talking about the way a foreign name is rendered in another language, according to its phonetic rules, by its own native speakers. This difference is crucial. What you are doing by equating the two phonetic butcherings is politically incorrect. I don't think it is too big a deal morally--as political correctness, to me, has very little to do with tact or respect--but some people would actually be offended. Just you wait 'till I hear you speak Russian, not pronounce Russian names while speaking in English! My own accent is strong but concerns mostly the non-aspiration of consonants--because my adviser and life-long mentor Bob Belknap once carefully explained to me the difference between short and long [i] vowels in English (roughly, the former being back and the latter front). So I feel near-indignant not on my own behalf but for my compatriots. Just you wait 'till I hear you speak Russian, not pronounce Russian names while speakin g in English! o.m. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jerry Katsell Date: Saturday, March 8, 2008 10:47 am Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position > God bless you, Michele and Kim, > > I happened to be in Tbilisi in 1986 in our hotel bar where there > was a > television broadcasting Gorbachev's speech after his meeting with > Reaganin Iceland. Gorby referred to Reagan as: "Meestir Prezeedent > Ray Gun!" I > found it charming. Of course, Gorby is infamous in Russia for trotting > out his version of English "Who's who?": "Khoo--ees--khoo?"! > > Jerry Katsell > > -----Original Message----- > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list > [SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Kim Braithwaite > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:37 AM > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position > > God bless you, Michele > > Mr Kim Braithwaite, Translator > "Good is better than Evil, because it's nicer" - Mammy Yokum (Al > Capp) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michele A. Berdy" > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 10:40 AM > Subject: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position > > > I have no idea what phonetic rendering of Medvedev will be easiest > for > English-speakers to pronounce. It's definitely a difficult name for > non-Russian speakers. But I think that if people get the stress right > and > most of the sounds -- that will be just fine. Because (in a small > voice)I > don't think it's such a big deal. For 8 years Russians have called the > US > president Mr Boosh. They call the first US president something like > Dzhyorch > Vashinkton. (And don't forget that famous writer Gerbert Ooels.) > That'snot > disrespect or butchering the names -- it's just the best they can do > with > their transliteration and phonetic systems. Somehow we have all > survived > without a serious international incident. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > - > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > - > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > - > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ---- > - > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ne99 at COLUMBIA.EDU Mon Mar 10 17:01:09 2008 From: ne99 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Natalia Ermolaev) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:01:09 -0400 Subject: Conference in Honor of Richard F. Gustafson - 3/14-3/15 Message-ID: THE CULTURE OF RUSSIAN ORTHODOXY Conference in Honor of Richard F. Gustafson March 14-15, 2008 Barnard College/Columbia University International Affairs Building, Room 1512 420 West 118th Street, 15th Floor New York, New York Friday, March 14 1:00: Welcome Judith Deutsch Kornblatt (University of Wisconsin- Madison) 1:30 Panel 1 Chair: Michael Flier (Harvard University) "Dostoevsky the Puritan: Milton's Theological Art in Dostoevsky" Vladimir Golstein (Brown University) "A Russian Orthodox Source of Soviet Scientific- Technological Prometheanism" George Kline (Bryn Mawr) (read by Boris Jakim) "Tolstoy" Liza Knapp (Columbia University) Discussants: James Scanlan (Ohio State University), Sarah Pratt (University of Southern California) 3:30 Break 4:00 Panel 2 Chair: John McGuckin (Union Theological Seminary) "Why Was Bulgakov Interested in Imiaslavie?" Paul Valliere (Butler University) "Substance Through Style in Lev Karsavin's 'O Nachalakh'" Boris Jakim "Doctor Zhivago and the Church Calendar: A Meeting of Orthodoxy and Symbolism" Catharine Nepomnyashchy (Barnard College, Columbia University) Discussant: Michael Meerson Saturday, March 15 9:30 Panel 3 Chair: Jonathan Brent (Yale University Press) "The Women of Modern Russian Religious Thought" Natasha Ermolaeva (Columbia University) "Russian Poetry and Poetics in Russian Religious Thought" Olga Meerson (Georgetown University) "The Icon and the Ad: Advertising in Modern Russian Religious Thought" Douglas Greenfield (Bucknell University) Discussants: John Malmstad (Harvard University), Inessa Medzhibovskaya (The New School) 12:00 Closing Remarks by participants (Sarah Pratt, Marina Ledkovsky, Catharine Nepomnyashchy, others as desired; may continue through lunch) ______________________________ Natalia Ermolaev Doctoral Candidate Department of Slavic Languages Columbia University 708 Hamilton Hall 1130 Amsterdam Avenue MC 2839 New York, NY 10027 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From xmas at UKR.NET Mon Mar 10 19:09:49 2008 From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:09:49 +0200 Subject: other linguistic resources on Russian Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I checked with my friend who provided the links to Zalizniak's dictionary -- this person has started and is supporting several other linguistic projects, so here I give the links to them: Словарь Даля и коллекция ссылок на ресурсы, касающиеся В. И. Даля http://vidahl.agava.ru Архив форума "Говорим по-русски", избранные статьи, различные словари для скачивания http://speakrus.ru Словарь Фасмера http://vasmer.narod.ru Русская грамматика http://rusgram.narod.ru Словарь Ушакова http://ushdict.narod.ru История слов http://wordhist.narod.ru Словарь Шанского http://shansky.narod.ru Словарь Черных http://chernykh-etym.narod.ru Словарь арго http://blat1927.narod.ru The BBI Combinatory Dictionary of English http://bbidict.narod.ru Малый академический словарь http://speakrus.ru/dict/mas/ Этимологический словарь славянских языков http://essja.narod.ru (пока в работе) Сайт Майка Кайзера (Далев ковчег, Великорусская Псалтырь) http://kayser.narod.ru Fanny's Fragments (коллекция старых открыток) http://ffragm.narod.ru there are also several Ukrainian dictionaries online, among which I would mention Академічний російсько-український словник http://r2u.org.ua російсько-український словник сталих виразів -- http://rosukrdic.iatp.org.ua/ Словники України online http://lcorp.ulif.org.ua/dictua/ (словозміна, синонімія, фразеологія) Словник скорочень української мови - http://www.ukrskor.info/ Великий тлумачний словник сучасної української мови http://www.slovnyk.net/ a big collection of links to Ukrainian linguistic projects http://community.livejournal.com/ua_mova/212102.html plus bonus: the last version of the Ukrainian orthgraphic code: http://www.madslinger.com/mova/pravopys-2007/ Hope you will find these worth interest if not helpful. With best regards, Maria   ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From koolson at UCDAVIS.EDU Mon Mar 10 22:24:16 2008 From: koolson at UCDAVIS.EDU (Karen Olson) Date: Mon, 10 Mar 2008 17:24:16 -0500 Subject: Russian Lecturer position announcement Message-ID: Position: Lecturer position in the Russian Program for the academic year 2008-2009. Qualifications: Ph.D. required, as well as native or near-native fluency and demonstrated excellence in teaching at the college level. Description: The Department of German and Russian is seeking a Lecturer for the academic year 2008-2009. The successful candidate should be a specialist in 20th-century Russian literature and culture, preferably with a strong background in Russian film. Full-time, non-tenure track, one-year appointment beginning on July 1, 2008, with possibility of renewal.. Five-course teaching load: one lower-division course and four upper-division courses, including a course on Russian Culture, a course on Russian Film, and an Advanced Conversation course. Salary: Based on education and years of teaching experience. Actual salary will be based on courses taught. Service Period: September 2008-June 2009 (salary begins July 1) Application Deadline: Consideration of applications will begin March 17, 2008 and the position will remain open until filled. Application Materials: Send letter of application, CV, and three letters of recommendation to Dr. Winder McConnell, Chair, Department of German and Russian. Electronic submissions welcome and may be forwarded to: wamcconnell at ucdavis.edu, except for letters of recommendation. Please send these letters to the following address: Winder McConnell, Chair Department of German & Russian University of California 1 Shields Avenue Davis, CA 95616 FAX: 530-752-4339 The University of California is an affirmative action/equal opportunity employer with a strong institutional commitment to the achievement of diversity among its faculty and staff. This position is covered by a collective bargaining agreement. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eclowes at KU.EDU Tue Mar 11 12:05:07 2008 From: eclowes at KU.EDU (edith clowes) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:05:07 -0500 Subject: last call for MLA panel on "Stoppard and the Slavic Connection" Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, This is a final call for papers for the Stoppard panel at the 2008 MLA in San Francisco. We have room for one more paper. Sincerely, Edith Clowes -- Edith W. Clowes, Professor and Director of Graduate Studies Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures 2140 Wescoe Hall University of Kansas 1445 Jayhawk Blvd. Lawrence, KS 66045-7590 tel.: 785-864-2359 fax: 785-864-4298 http://www2.ku.edu/~slavic/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mdenner at STETSON.EDU Tue Mar 11 13:03:59 2008 From: mdenner at STETSON.EDU (Michael Denner) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:03:59 -0400 Subject: Medvedev. Mehd-V(y)EHD-yehf. Whatever. Message-ID: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/opinion/11tue4.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() Dr. Michael A. Denner Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal Director, University Honors Program Contact Information: Russian Studies Program Stetson University Campus Box 8361 DeLand, FL 32720-3756 386.822.7381 (department) 386.822.7265 (direct line) 386.822.7380 (fax) http://www.stetson.edu/~mdenner ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU Tue Mar 11 14:28:08 2008 From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:28:08 -0500 Subject: Medvedev. Mehd-V(y)EHD-yehf. Whatever. Message-ID: Serge Schmemann is one of the wittiest yet deepest journalists I have known. No surprise--with such a father! o.m. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Denner Date: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 8:03 am Subject: [SEELANGS] Medvedev. Mehd-V(y)EHD-yehf. Whatever. > http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/11/opinion/11tue4.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin > > ()()()()()()()()()()()()()()()() > Dr. Michael A. Denner > Editor, Tolstoy Studies Journal > Director, University Honors Program > > Contact Information: > Russian Studies Program > Stetson University > Campus Box 8361 > DeLand, FL 32720-3756 > 386.822.7381 (department) > 386.822.7265 (direct line) > 386.822.7380 (fax) > http://www.stetson.edu/~mdenner > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU Tue Mar 11 14:39:15 2008 From: Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU (Ruder, Cynthia A) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 10:39:15 -0400 Subject: Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award--Deadline Soon In-Reply-To: <71EB79178CB5D1418316AACE1A86ABE104D2793A7D@EX7FM01.ad.uky.edu> Message-ID: With apologies for a repeat send of this e-mail, but... NOMINATIONS CAN BE SUBMITTED ON A PDF FILE AND SENT VIA E-MAIL IN ORDER TO EXPEDITE RECEIPT!!! --Deadline 15 March 2008—Four days AWAY! Second Annual Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award Colleagues! We thank those who already have submitted a nomination. For those of you who have not.... ACTR is pleased to announce the second annual Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award (PSRSLA). This program at the college/university level recognizes our outstanding students who are studying Russian. In 2007 18 students were nominated by their instructors for this award. The nominations revealed that there are some fantastic, dedicated, talented students in our Russian programs around the country who were honored. This year we would like to double participation in this program which is a wonderful way to applaud the efforts of our best students, while letting them know that we in the field appreciate and value their achievements. Moreover, because this is a selective, national program, students will be able to exploit the award as further testament to their skills and abilities as they enter the job market. The success of this program depends on you and me--Russian instructors at the college/university level. With that in mind I encourage you to nominate a student from your institution to receive this honor. The PSRSLA is a FREE service to the profession; it requires only your participation! In order to assist you in submitting a nomination, please follow these guidelines: 1. Departments (be they independent or part of a larger Modern Language department) may nominate ONE student from either the junior or senior class. Graduate students are NOT eligible for this award. 2. Eligibility is based on achievement and interest in Russian as demonstrated by enrollment in language courses, student GPA, participation in programs such as exchanges, NPSREC (National Post- Secondary Russian Essay Contest), Russian clubs or Russian houses, a Russian major or minor. Note that a Russian major is not necessarily a requirement for the award. We encourage you to nominate that student who is the "star" of your program and who personifies a dedication and commitment to Russian that is unparalleled among her/ his peers. YOU NOMINATE THE STUDENT WHO AUTOMATICALLY THEN BECOMES A Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate. ACTR does NOT select the Awardees; this process is local at your institution. 3. Nominations are to be submitted--electronically or via regular mail--by Department chairpersons/Program Directors. The nomination must be submitted on departmental letterhead. Send the nominations to Prof. Cynthia Ruder at the address below.* 4. **Nominating instructors must be current ACTR members.** **(It is never too late to join ACTR:)). Simply go to the www.americancouncils.org web site. On the main page click the "Get Involved" tab on the left side. Then click "ACTR MEMBERSHIP" from the list in the center of the page. From there either download the membership form and submit it or contact ACTR Secretary George Morris at actrmbrs at sbcglobal.net. It is easy, fast, and inexpensive. Plus you get the ACTR Newsletter and a subscription to RLJ, the Russian Language Journal, with the appropriate membership fee.) 5. DEADLINE FOR NOMINATIONS IS 15 MARCH 2008. Each Laureate will receive notification and an award certificate in April 2008. We encourage you to avail your students of this program--it is free! Help us show our best and brightest students how much we value their commitment to Russian. In order to protect student privacy we do not include awardees' names in the ACTR Newsletter, but we do identify the institutions that have participated. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact me at Cynthia.ruder at uky.edu. I anxiously await your nominations! Sincerely, Cindy Ruder *Cynthia A. Ruder University of Kentucky MCL/Russian & Eastern Studies 1055 Patterson Lexington, KY 40506-0027 859.257.7026 cynthia.ruder at uky.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From schucks at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Tue Mar 11 16:21:16 2008 From: schucks at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Emily E Schuckman) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:21:16 -0700 Subject: AAASS Panel Chair Message-ID: Dear SEELANGS members: We are currently in need of a chair for the AAASS panel: "Labored Identities: Gender, Communism, Cinema." The panel consists of the following papers: - Gender, identity, and social change in Room's "Bed and Sofa" - Podniek's "Soviets" and gender in glasnost era - The Heroine of the Market: The Prostitute as Entrepreneur in "Tochka" Please contact me if you are interested in serving as the chair of this panel. Best, Emily Schuckman University of Washington ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From crosenth at USM.MAINE.EDU Tue Mar 11 19:20:39 2008 From: crosenth at USM.MAINE.EDU (Charlotte Rosenthal) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 15:20:39 -0400 Subject: AAASS Panel Chair In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Prof. Schuckman: If you don't already have a chair, I would be willing to serve. Your panel papers very much interest me. Sincerely, Charlotte Rosenthal, Professor of Russian Charlotte Rosenthal, Ph. D. Associate Professor of Russian Dept. of Modern & Classical Langs. and Lits University of Southern Maine Portland, ME 04104-9300 U.S.A. crosenth at usm.maine.edu >>> Emily E Schuckman 3/11/2008 12:21 PM >>> Dear SEELANGS members: We are currently in need of a chair for the AAASS panel: "Labored Identities: Gender, Communism, Cinema." The panel consists of the following papers: - Gender, identity, and social change in Room's "Bed and Sofa" - Podniek's "Soviets" and gender in glasnost era - The Heroine of the Market: The Prostitute as Entrepreneur in "Tochka" Please contact me if you are interested in serving as the chair of this panel. Best, Emily Schuckman University of Washington ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ericson at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG Tue Mar 11 19:39:46 2008 From: ericson at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG (Brita Ericson) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 14:39:46 -0500 Subject: Funding Confirmed for Contemporary Russia Program Message-ID: American Councils for International Education: ACTR/ACCELS is pleased to announce that funding has been confirmed for eligible applicants applying to our five-week summer program focusing on area studies, Contemporary Russia. This is a unique opportunity for U.S. graduate and undergraduate students as well as elementary- and secondary-school American teachers of history, social studies, and language arts to study Russian economics, politics, and culture in Moscow. All content-based classes are taught in English by faculty of the State University: Moscow Higher School of Economics, one of Russia's most prestigious centers for the study of social sciences. Program participants also receive six hours per week of elementary Russian-language instruction. Students with prior training in Russian are provided instruction at the appropriate level; we can accommodate students of all proficiency levels. A full-time U.S. resident director oversees the program; assists participants with academic and personal matters; and serves as a liaison between university faculty, administrators, host families, and participants. APPLICATIONS MUST BE POSTMARKED BY MARCH 15, 2008. Other program features include room and board with Russian families; weekly cultural excursions; Russian peer tutors; eight semester-hours of academic credit through Bryn Mawr College; and pre-departure orientation in Washington, D.C. Program fees include round-trip international travel from Washington, D.C. to Moscow, room and board, international health insurance, and Russian visas. Area-studies courses conducted in English: Russian Politics Today: domestic and foreign policy, major political parties and actors, the war in Chechnya, Russia’s relations with the West. Russian Economics in Transition: the transition from communism to the current economy, problems of corruption and organized crime. Russian Contemporary Culture: pop culture and mass media, Russia’s cultural and social mores, historical background. Program dates: June 24 – July 28, 2008. Application Deadline: March 15, 2008. Applications are available at www.acrussiaabroad.org. For more information, please contact: Russian and Eurasian Outbound Programs American Councils for International Education: ACTR/ACCELS 1776 Massachusetts Ave., NW, Suite 700 Washington, DC 20036 Telephone: (202) 833-7522 Email: outbound at americancouncils.org Website: www.acrussiaabroad.org www.americancouncils.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From continent at COMCAST.NET Tue Mar 11 22:32:25 2008 From: continent at COMCAST.NET (Marina Adamovitch) Date: Tue, 11 Mar 2008 18:32:25 -0400 Subject: Russian Documentary Film Festival in New York City Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I strongly recommend this Documentary Film festival: www.rusdocfilmfest.com Best wishes, Marina Adamovich Russian Documentary Film Festival in New York: April 11-13, 2008. The first-ever Russian Documentary Film Festival will take place at Tribeca Cinemas in New York City, April 11-13, 2008. The festival presents an exclusive opportunity to see documentary films produced in Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. All of the films have been previously unreleased on American screens, making this a unique opportunity to experience the new trends in Russian documentary film-making. Many of the films include previously unseen archival footage filmed prior to the 1917 Revolution; others include exclusive interviews with Holocaust survivors; still others show a glimpse of rural Russia very rarely seen in the US. One of the films that will be shown is the last cinematic appearance of Nobel Laureate, the late Joseph Brodsky. This collection of films is a priceless resource for anyone interested in Russian culture, literature and history. Many of the film-makers, directors and producers will be present for roundtables and Q&A sessions. For more information and tickets, please visit www.rusdocfilmfest.com or www.tribecacinemas.com/calendar Ksenia Adamovitch Festival director ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU Wed Mar 12 14:29:07 2008 From: Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU (Ruder, Cynthia A) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 10:29:07 -0400 Subject: Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award--Deadline Soon In-Reply-To: <71EB79178CB5D1418316AACE1A86ABE104D2793A84@EX7FM01.ad.uky.edu> Message-ID: With apologies for a repeat send of this e-mail, but... NOMINATIONS CAN BE SUBMITTED ON A PDF FILE AND SENT VIA E-MAIL IN ORDER TO EXPEDITE RECEIPT!!! --Deadline 15 March 2008—Three days AWAY! Second Annual Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award Colleagues! We thank those who already have submitted a nomination. For those of you who have not.... ACTR is pleased to announce the second annual Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award (PSRSLA). This program at the college/university level recognizes our outstanding students who are studying Russian. In 2007 18 students were nominated by their instructors for this award. The nominations revealed that there are some fantastic, dedicated, talented students in our Russian programs around the country who were honored. This year we would like to double participation in this program which is a wonderful way to applaud the efforts of our best students, while letting them know that we in the field appreciate and value their achievements. Moreover, because this is a selective, national program, students will be able to exploit the award as further testament to their skills and abilities as they enter the job market. The success of this program depends on you and me--Russian instructors at the college/university level. With that in mind I encourage you to nominate a student from your institution to receive this honor. The PSRSLA is a FREE service to the profession; it requires only your participation! In order to assist you in submitting a nomination, please follow these guidelines: 1. Departments (be they independent or part of a larger Modern Language department) may nominate ONE student from either the junior or senior class. Graduate students are NOT eligible for this award. 2. Eligibility is based on achievement and interest in Russian as demonstrated by enrollment in language courses, student GPA, participation in programs such as exchanges, NPSREC (National Post- Secondary Russian Essay Contest), Russian clubs or Russian houses, a Russian major or minor. Note that a Russian major is not necessarily a requirement for the award. We encourage you to nominate that student who is the "star" of your program and who personifies a dedication and commitment to Russian that is unparalleled among her/ his peers. YOU NOMINATE THE STUDENT WHO AUTOMATICALLY THEN BECOMES A Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate. ACTR does NOT select the Awardees; this process is local at your institution. 3. Nominations are to be submitted--electronically or via regular mail--by Department chairpersons/Program Directors. The nomination must be submitted on departmental letterhead. Send the nominations to Prof. Cynthia Ruder at the address below.* 4. **Nominating instructors must be current ACTR members.** **(It is never too late to join ACTR:)). Simply go to the www.americancouncils.org web site. On the main page click the "Get Involved" tab on the left side. Then click "ACTR MEMBERSHIP" from the list in the center of the page. From there either download the membership form and submit it or contact ACTR Secretary George Morris at actrmbrs at sbcglobal.net. It is easy, fast, and inexpensive. Plus you get the ACTR Newsletter and a subscription to RLJ, the Russian Language Journal, with the appropriate membership fee.) 5. DEADLINE FOR NOMINATIONS IS 15 MARCH 2008. Each Laureate will receive notification and an award certificate in April 2008. We encourage you to avail your students of this program--it is free! Help us show our best and brightest students how much we value their commitment to Russian. In order to protect student privacy we do not include awardees' names in the ACTR Newsletter, but we do identify the institutions that have participated. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact me at Cynthia.ruder at uky.edu. I anxiously await your nominations! Sincerely, Cindy Ruder *Cynthia A. Ruder University of Kentucky MCL/Russian & Eastern Studies 1055 Patterson Lexington, KY 40506-0027 859.257.7026 cynthia.ruder at uky.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From xmas at UKR.NET Wed Mar 12 07:54:22 2008 From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:54:22 +0200 Subject: Soviet Atlantis Message-ID: Dear colleagues, here is another website dedicated to the Soviet material culture: http://madeinussr.com/ and here http://www.diafilms.com/ you can find Soviet diafilms for children. With best regards, Maria ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From makoveeva at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Mar 12 18:25:02 2008 From: makoveeva at HOTMAIL.COM (Irina Makoveeva) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 13:25:02 -0500 Subject: Part-time Lecturer in Russian and Live-in Russian Hall Coordinator Message-ID: Vanderbilt University Germanic and Slavic Languages, Box 1567-B, Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN 37235 Part-time Lecturer in Russian and Live-in Russian Hall Coordinator The Department of Germanic and Slavic Languages and Literatures at Vanderbilt University invites applications for the position of part-time lecturer in Russian and live-in Russian Hall Coordinator for the academic year 2008-2009. We seek candidates with native or near-native Russian and evidence of experience teaching Russian in the American classroom. Minimum degree qualification is a Master’s degree or its equivalent. The individual whom we hire will teach five hours of Russian each semester. As Russian Hall Coordinator, the individual whom we hire will be expected to live in the McTyeire International House with the Russian-language group; to facilitate Russian conversation there as much as possible; to have supper four nights per week with the Russian group; to conduct one-hour “study breaks” once a week with the Russian group; and to attend occasional meetings having to do with the administration of the dorm and recruitment for the following year. Compensation includes room and board and a part-time salary. Applicants should submit a letter explaining their qualifications and interest; two letters of recommendation from American college teachers; and evidence of teaching Russian, with samples of teaching evaluations. The materials should be mailed to Professor David Lowe, Department of Germanic and Slavic, 2301 Vanderbilt Place, VU Station B Box 351567, Vanderbilt University, Nashville, TN 37235-1567 Vanderbilt University is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From beth.holmgren at DUKE.EDU Wed Mar 12 18:49:44 2008 From: beth.holmgren at DUKE.EDU (Beth Holmgren) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:49:44 -0400 Subject: Josephine Woll Message-ID: March 12, 2008 With deepest sorrow I write you that our colleague Josephine Woll, a specialist in Soviet film and a professor at Howard University, died this morning after a long illness at her home near Washington, D.C. For those of you who live in the area and wish to attend her funeral Friday morning, March 14th, please contact me offlist for details. Beth Holmgren beth.holmgren at duke.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From igor_horvatus at YAHOO.COM Wed Mar 12 16:41:18 2008 From: igor_horvatus at YAHOO.COM (horvat igor) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 09:41:18 -0700 Subject: Native speaker of Russian? Message-ID: Hi, I am looking for a native speaker of Russian who would read ca. 50 pages of a (contrastive) linguistic analysis using Russian examples. What is needed is a combination of proofreading (Russian examples) and commenting on the parts of the analysis from a native speaker's perspective. This is a paid job. Please reply to: igor_horvatus at yahoo.com Igor ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From angelovskiy at YAHOO.COM Wed Mar 12 21:05:23 2008 From: angelovskiy at YAHOO.COM (Misha Angelovskiy) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 14:05:23 -0700 Subject: Native speaker of Russian? In-Reply-To: <290110.22788.qm@web51406.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: would be happy to do it for you. did something similar for a non-native speaker friend of mine and her dissertation. Misha --- horvat igor wrote: > Hi, > > I am looking for a native speaker of Russian who > would > read ca. 50 pages of a (contrastive) linguistic > analysis using Russian examples. What is needed is a > combination of proofreading (Russian examples) and > commenting on the parts of the analysis from a > native > speaker's perspective. > This is a paid job. > > Please reply to: igor_horvatus at yahoo.com > > Igor > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Looking for last minute shopping deals? > Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. > http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, > control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the > SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nflrc at HAWAII.EDU Wed Mar 12 22:24:54 2008 From: nflrc at HAWAII.EDU (National Foreign Language Resource Center) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 12:24:54 -1000 Subject: REMINDER: 2008 SLRF Conference - Call for Proposals deadline April 15 Message-ID: Our apologies for any cross-postings . . . * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * The Department of Second Language Studies at the University of Hawaii at Manoa is pleased to announce. . . CALL FOR PROPOSALS: 31st Annual Second Language Research Forum (SLRF) October 17-19, 2008 University of Hawaii at Manoa Honolulu, Hawaii http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/slrf08/ ONLINE PROPOSAL SUBMISSION SYSTEM OPEN! (See Call for Proposals section for complete details and instructions for proposal submissions) PROPOSAL SUBMISSION DEADLINE: April 15, 2008 Notification of selection: Mid-May 2008 Theme: EXPLORING SLA: PERSPECTIVES, POSITIONS, AND PRACTICES Plenary speakers: - Dr. Harald Clahsen (University of Essex) - Dr. Alan Firth (Newcastle University) - Dr. Eva Lam (Northwestern University) - Dr. Richard Schmidt (University of Hawai'i at Manoa) We welcome all areas of second language research, including, but not limited to: - Instructed SLA - Acquisition of grammar and phonology - Child SLA - L2 Processing - Language and learner characteristics - Language and cognition - Discourse and interaction - Language and socialization - Bilingualism and multilingualism - Language and ideology - Literacy development - Learner corpora - Language learning and technology - Second language measurement 1) PAPERS: Individual papers will be allotted 20 minutes (plus 10 minutes for discussion). 2) POSTERS: Posters will be displayed for a full day. Posters are intended for one-on-one discussion or reports of work in progress. 3) COLLOQIUA: The colloquia/panels consist of individual paper presentations that relate to a specific or related topics of interest. They are offered in 2-hour sessions. Please see our website for complete proposal submission instructions and additional updates: http://nflrc.hawaii.edu/slrf08/. Deadline for submissions is April 15, 2008. For any proposal submission questions, please contact the SLRF 2008 Program Chairs at slrf2008program at gmail.com. ************************************************************************* N National Foreign Language Resource Center F University of Hawai'i L 1859 East-West Road, #106 R Honolulu HI 96822 C voice: (808) 956-9424, fax: (808) 956-5983 email: nflrc at hawaii.edu VISIT OUR WEBSITE! http://www.nflrc.hawaii.edu ************************************************************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From maria.basom at UNI.EDU Wed Mar 12 22:25:33 2008 From: maria.basom at UNI.EDU (Maria Basom) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 17:25:33 -0500 Subject: Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award--Deadline Soon Message-ID: Cindy, Can you accept faxed nominations? Thanks! maria ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruder, Cynthia A" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2008 9:39 AM Subject: [SEELANGS] Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award--Deadline Soon > With apologies for a repeat send of this e-mail, but... > NOMINATIONS CAN BE SUBMITTED ON A PDF FILE AND SENT VIA E-MAIL IN ORDER TO > EXPEDITE RECEIPT!!! > > --Deadline 15 March 2008—Four days AWAY! > > Second Annual Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award > > Colleagues! > > We thank those who already have submitted a nomination. For those of you > who have not.... > > ACTR is pleased to announce the second annual Post-Secondary > Russian Scholar Laureate Award (PSRSLA). This program at the > college/university level recognizes our outstanding students who are > studying Russian. In 2007 18 students were nominated by their instructors > for this award. The nominations revealed that there are some fantastic, > dedicated, talented students in our Russian programs around the country > who > were honored. This year we would like to double participation in this > program which is a wonderful way to applaud the efforts of our best > students, while letting them know that we in the field appreciate and > value > their achievements. Moreover, because this is a selective, national > program, students will be able to exploit the award as further testament > to > their skills and abilities as they enter the job market. > The success of this program depends on you and me--Russian > instructors at the college/university level. With that in mind I > encourage you to nominate a student from your institution to receive > this honor. The PSRSLA is a FREE service to the profession; it requires > only your participation! In order to assist you in submitting a > nomination, > please follow these guidelines: > > 1. Departments (be they independent or part of a larger Modern > Language department) may nominate ONE student from either the junior > or senior class. Graduate students are NOT eligible for this award. > > 2. Eligibility is based on achievement and interest in Russian as > demonstrated by enrollment in language courses, student GPA, > participation in programs such as exchanges, NPSREC (National Post- > Secondary Russian Essay Contest), Russian clubs or Russian houses, a > Russian major or minor. Note that a Russian major is not necessarily > a requirement for the award. We encourage you to nominate that > student who is the "star" of your program and who personifies a > dedication and commitment to Russian that is unparalleled among her/ > his peers. YOU NOMINATE THE STUDENT WHO AUTOMATICALLY THEN BECOMES A > Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate. ACTR does NOT select the > Awardees; > this process is local at your institution. > > 3. Nominations are to be submitted--electronically or via regular > mail--by Department chairpersons/Program Directors. The nomination must > be > submitted on departmental letterhead. Send the nominations to Prof. > Cynthia Ruder at the address below.* > > 4. **Nominating instructors must be current ACTR members.** > **(It is never too late to join ACTR:)). Simply go to the > www.americancouncils.org web site. On the main page click the "Get > Involved" tab on the left side. Then click "ACTR MEMBERSHIP" from > the list in the center of the page. From there either download the > membership form and submit it or contact ACTR Secretary George Morris > at actrmbrs at sbcglobal.net. It is easy, fast, and inexpensive. Plus > you get the ACTR Newsletter and a subscription to RLJ, the Russian > Language Journal, with the appropriate membership fee.) > > 5. DEADLINE FOR NOMINATIONS IS 15 MARCH 2008. Each Laureate will > receive notification and an award certificate in April 2008. > > We encourage you to avail your students of this program--it is free! > Help us show our best and brightest students how much we value their > commitment to Russian. In order to protect student privacy we do not > include awardees' names in the ACTR Newsletter, but we do identify the > institutions that have participated. > > If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact me at > Cynthia.ruder at uky.edu. I anxiously await your nominations! > > Sincerely, Cindy Ruder > > > *Cynthia A. Ruder > University of Kentucky > MCL/Russian & Eastern Studies > 1055 Patterson > Lexington, KY 40506-0027 > 859.257.7026 > cynthia.ruder at uky.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From amelia.glaser at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 13 02:58:50 2008 From: amelia.glaser at GMAIL.COM (amelia glaser) Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2008 19:58:50 -0700 Subject: Yiddish panel, MLA 2008 Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, We are still accepting paper proposals for the following Yiddish panel at the 2008 MLA Convention in San Francisco: Yiddish and the City. Urban themes in Yiddish literature; Yiddish literature and language in the city. 1-page abstracts by 21 Mar.; Send proposals to Anne Eakin Moss (aeakinmoss at jhu.edu) or Amelia Glaser (amglaser at ucsd.edu). Best, Amelia Glaser -- Amelia Glaser Assistant Professor Russian Literature University of California, San Diego Literature Building 3345 (858) 534-3809 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dignashe at CARLETON.EDU Thu Mar 13 03:41:37 2008 From: dignashe at CARLETON.EDU (D. Nemec Ignashev) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 06:41:37 +0300 Subject: New Bunin Bibliography available Message-ID: The Slavonic Library of the National Library of the Czech Republic has published "Ivan Aklekseevich Bunin: bibliografiia originalnykh knizhnykh izdanii (1891-1990)". A second volume focused on publications in proccedings and journals will be published next year. More information is available at: http://www.nkp.cz/_en/pages/page.php3?page=nejnovejsi_publikace_en.htm If you are interested in obtaining a copy (it doesn't seem to be available through the usual sources), contact Slavonic Library Director Lukas Babka at Lukas.Babka at nkp.cz D. Nemec Ignashev Carleton College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK Thu Mar 13 08:52:26 2008 From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 08:52:26 +0000 Subject: call for papers/a seminar on history of ideas in Helsinki (20-22.08.08) Message-ID: Call for Papers SEMINAR – WORKSHOP EASTERN MANIFESTATIONS OF WESTERN IDEAS OR VICE VERSA? The Case of Russia and the Balkans Time and venue: August 20-22, 2008, University of Helsinki Organiser: Research projects "Cultural Europe beyond the EU" and "Eastern Manifestations of Western Ideas" (University of Helsinki; Network for European Studies) The theme of the seminar/workshop aspires to embrace the wide variety within Russian and Balkan studies and welcomes all scholars in these areas of research to participate in this multidisciplinary seminar. Doctoral students, in particular, and other scholars of cultural studies, literature, language, history, religion, social and political sciences or related fields are encouraged to present their papers in the workshop. The seminar language is English. Our plenary speakers – renowned academics from Europe and the USA – have been chosen to bring into play a range of possible approaches to the topic. They are: Prof. Ronelle Alexander (University of California, Berkeley) Prof. Ranko Bugarski (Belgrade University) Prof. Damir Kalogjera (Zagreb University) Prof. Nicole Lindstrom (York University, UK) Prof. Dan Ungurianu (Vassar College) Prof. Andrew B. Wachtel (Northwestern University) The plenary speakers of the seminar will also participate in the workshop as discussants for papers presented by doctoral students. The seminar is devoted to the study of the reception and adoption of “western” ideas and phenomena perceived as "western" in Russia and in South- East Europe. It will promote interdisciplinary research on cultural history and history of thought, and it aims to encourage an interest in the cultural dimensions and historical contexts of the processes of transformation concerning cultural influences. One focus of the seminar is on the theoretical approaches to investigate the processes of transformation of ideas and their cultural translation. Possible themes for papers may address, for example, the following issues:
 • Phenomena related to cultural or historical periods (Humanism,
 Renaissance, Baroque, Enlightenment, Romanticism, Realism etc.), or the
 specific features of these periods in different areas. • Paradigmatic and stereotypic issues, such as in which directions
 individual ideas have spread, how long is the time span between the
 “original” idea and its “second appearance”, and what is the effect of the
 possible temporal delay. • Role of particular (historical) figures in spreading ideas between the
West and the East.
 • Mechanisms of the process how the “alien” is made an integral part of the “own” culture.
 • The justification of the opposition “East vs. West” as such may be questioned and its use in political and cultural debates. • We encourage participants to address also the theoretical and methodological
approaches to cultural transformation they use in their studies. Deadline for abstracts: April 30, 2008. Abstracts (one page) should be submitted electronically to juhani.nuorluoto at helsinki.fi or maija.kononen at helsinki.fi. The participants will be informed about the programme, as well as about the practicalities of the workshop by May 15. There will be no registration fee. The doctoral students wishing to participate in the workshop should consult their corresponding departments to find out how the participation could be credited in their doctoral studies. The organisers are planning a publication based on the presentations in the seminar. We hope that our seminar/workshop will provide a platform for scholars and doctoral students to meet and discuss their research. Please feel free to forward this Call for Papers to interested colleagues. Do not hesitate to contact the organisers for further information. Juhani Nuorluoto Maija Könönen juhani.nuorluoto at helsinki.fi maija.kononen at helsinki.fi -------------------------------- Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London) Lecturer in Russian School of European Languages and Cultures The University of Edinburgh David Hume Tower George Square Edinburgh EX8 9JX UK tel. +44-(0)131-6511381 fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604 e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From xmas at UKR.NET Thu Mar 13 07:22:27 2008 From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 09:22:27 +0200 Subject: another Ukrainian dictionary Message-ID: Dear colleagues, here is the information about another Ukrainian dictionary: Академічний російсько-український словник. Електронна версія Матеріали компакт-диску: Матеріяли словника, опрацьовані для електронної версії: Повний текст словника (три томи, літери А – П) Переднє слово словника Скорочення та знаки Інтернет-версія (www.r2u.org.ua/) Додаткові матеріяли до словника: Переднє слово електронної версії Відгуки про словник Про укладачів словника Виправлені недогляди та друкарські помилки Інші словники та «Норми» (підготували О. Телемко, В. Кубайчук, А. Рисін, Р. Скакун) Норми літературної української мови О.Синявського Правописний словник Г.Голоскевича Російсько-український словник О.Ізюмова Російсько-український словник правничої мови Російсько-український словник термінів фізики і хімії М.Вікула Російсько-український словничок термінів природознавства і географії К.Дубняка Російсько-український фразеологічний словник В.Підмогильного, Є.Плужника Словник ділової мови М.Дорошенка, М.Станиславського, В.Страшкевича Словник природничої термінології Словник технічної термінології І. Шелудька, Т.Садовського Український стилістичний словник І.Огієнка Електронне видання «Словника» уможливлено завдяки фінансовій допомозі від Наукового товариства ім. Т.Шевченка з Фонду ім. Івана Романюка. Поширюється безкоштовно. Виготовлення додаткових копій вітається. Видавництво «К.І.С.» www.r2u.org.ua/ http://rapidshare.com/files/98665041/Krymskyi_.part1.rar http://rapidshare.com/files/98702594/Krymskyi_.part2.rar With best regards, Maria ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU Thu Mar 13 14:49:27 2008 From: Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU (Ruder, Cynthia A) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 10:49:27 -0400 Subject: Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award--Impending Deadline Message-ID: With apologies for a repeat send of this e-mail. If you are on spring break and are having trouble getting your nomination in, please contact me OFF LIST at cynthia.ruder at uky.edu NOMINATIONS CAN BE SUBMITTED --VIA FAX to Professor Cynthia Ruder at Fax # 859-257-3743. The machine is always on, so faxes can be received at any time; --ON A PDF FILE AND SENT VIA E-MAIL IN ORDER TO EXPEDITE RECEIPT!!! --Deadline 15 March 2008—Two days AWAY! Second Annual Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award Colleagues! We thank those who already have submitted a nomination. For those of you who have not.... ACTR is pleased to announce the second annual Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate Award (PSRSLA). This program at the college/university level recognizes our outstanding students who are studying Russian. In 2007 18 students were nominated by their instructors for this award. The nominations revealed that there are some fantastic, dedicated, talented students in our Russian programs around the country who were honored. This year we would like to double participation in this program which is a wonderful way to applaud the efforts of our best students, while letting them know that we in the field appreciate and value their achievements. Moreover, because this is a selective, national program, students will be able to exploit the award as further testament to their skills and abilities as they enter the job market. The success of this program depends on you and me--Russian instructors at the college/university level. With that in mind I encourage you to nominate a student from your institution to receive this honor. The PSRSLA is a FREE service to the profession; it requires only your participation! In order to assist you in submitting a nomination, please follow these guidelines: 1. Departments (be they independent or part of a larger Modern Language department) may nominate ONE student from either the junior or senior class. Graduate students are NOT eligible for this award. 2. Eligibility is based on achievement and interest in Russian as demonstrated by enrollment in language courses, student GPA, participation in programs such as exchanges, NPSREC (National Post- Secondary Russian Essay Contest), Russian clubs or Russian houses, a Russian major or minor. Note that a Russian major is not necessarily a requirement for the award. We encourage you to nominate that student who is the "star" of your program and who personifies a dedication and commitment to Russian that is unparalleled among her/ his peers. YOU NOMINATE THE STUDENT WHO AUTOMATICALLY THEN BECOMES A Post-Secondary Russian Scholar Laureate. ACTR does NOT select the Awardees; this process is local at your institution. 3. Nominations are to be submitted--electronically or via regular mail--by Department chairpersons/Program Directors. The nomination must be submitted on departmental letterhead. Send the nominations to Prof. Cynthia Ruder at the address below.* 4. **Nominating instructors must be current ACTR members.** **(It is never too late to join ACTR:)). Simply go to the www.americancouncils.org web site. On the main page click the "Get Involved" tab on the left side. Then click "ACTR MEMBERSHIP" from the list in the center of the page. From there either download the membership form and submit it or contact ACTR Secretary George Morris at actrmbrs at sbcglobal.net. It is easy, fast, and inexpensive. Plus you get the ACTR Newsletter and a subscription to RLJ, the Russian Language Journal, with the appropriate membership fee.) 5. DEADLINE FOR NOMINATIONS IS 15 MARCH 2008. Each Laureate will receive notification and an award certificate in April 2008. We encourage you to avail your students of this program--it is free! Help us show our best and brightest students how much we value their commitment to Russian. In order to protect student privacy we do not include awardees' names in the ACTR Newsletter, but we do identify the institutions that have participated. If you have any questions, do not hesitate to contact me at Cynthia.ruder at uky.edu. I anxiously await your nominations! Sincerely, Cindy Ruder *Cynthia A. Ruder University of Kentucky MCL/Russian & Eastern Studies 1055 Patterson Lexington, KY 40506-0027 859.257.7026 cynthia.ruder at uky.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hammarberg at MACALESTER.EDU Thu Mar 13 18:30:12 2008 From: hammarberg at MACALESTER.EDU (Gitta Hammarberg) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 12:30:12 -0600 Subject: AWSS Membership Message-ID: Hi Kris, Please send me the renewal form! Gitta --- Original Message --- > Dear Colleagues: > > This is just a reminder that it is time to begin or renew > membership > in the Association for Women in Slavic Studies, an AAASS > affiliate > organization which supports scholarship by and about women in > our field. > > Send me an email and I will return our Application/Renewal > form to you. > > Thanks, > > Kris Groberg, Ph.D. (AWSS Secretary-Treasurer) > Professor of Art History > 324D Department of Visual Arts > NDSU Downtown Campus > 650 NP Avenue > Fargo, ND 58102 > 701.231.8359 > http://www.ndsu.edu/finearts/visual_arts/faculty/groberg.shtml > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web > Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From vjhaynes at BELLSOUTH.NET Thu Mar 13 21:50:08 2008 From: vjhaynes at BELLSOUTH.NET (Janey Haynes) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:50:08 +0000 Subject: question about slang Message-ID: Nashville, here, with a specific word question. My first year (high school) Russian students are getting ready to perform a skit about going shopping, buying clothes for a function, etc. They stumped me today with "Ioanna Bobyevna, how do you say 'Cuz'--not 'Cousin', just Cuz?" That was followed by "And how do you say 'Bro' or 'Bra', like "Yo, Bra!' " I had to confess I had no idea. So, you brilliant minds out there, especially those who've been around Russians recently, I'd love to know! Janey Haynes Nashville, TN ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Danko.Sipka at ASU.EDU Fri Mar 14 00:27:55 2008 From: Danko.Sipka at ASU.EDU (Danko Sipka) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 17:27:55 -0700 Subject: Serbo-Croatian (BCMS) Programs Message-ID: Many thanks to all those who responded to this inquiry (for the rest of them, I looked up these courses on-line). Here are the enrollment numbers for Serbo-Croatian (B/C/M/S, in its entirety or one of its ethnic variants) language courses in this and previous regular-academic-year semester/trimester. The list does not include summer/winter-break courses, literature/culture courses, courses of a broader Slavic profile, etc. I hope this list may come handy in our incessant struggle for survival. There may be some other schools offering this language -- if so, please let me know. School Previous Current ASU 25 28 Berkeley 7 16 Chicago 12 12 Columbia 9 8 Cornell 7 6 Harvard 4 4 Illinois - Chicago 9 13 Illinois - Urbana 14 10 Indiana 10 7 Iowa 9 7 Kansas 17 17 OSU 16 6 Pittsburgh 28 24 Princeton 2 2 UCLA 26 16 UNC 17 10 Wisconsin 22 15 Washington 23 26. Best, Danko Danko Sipka Editor, Journal of Less Commonly Taught Languages http://www.councilnet.org/jctl/index.htm Professor of Slavic Languages School of International Letters and Cultures Arizona State University Web: http://www.public.asu.edu/~dsipka Mail: Danko.Sipka at asu.edu ----- Original Message ----- From: "Danko Sipka" To: Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 12:34 AM Subject: [SEELANGS] Serbo-Croatian (BCMS) Programs > Colleagues, > I am trying to make a snapshot of Serbo-Croatian > (Bosnian/Croatian/Montenegrin/Serbian) programs at US universities in this > accademic year. > If your school offers Serbo-Croatian (BCMS), either in its entirety or in > one of the variants, I would be most grateful if you would send me > (off-list, to danko.sipka at asu.edu) the following data: > > 1.Which Serbo-Croatian (BCMS) courses (i.e., courses with a specific focus > on that language) were offered in FS 07 and SS 08, > 2. How many students were in each course. > > I will summarize the results on the list. > > Best, > > Danko > > Danko Sipka > Professor of Slavic Languages > School of International Letters and Cultures > Arizona State University > Web: http://www.public.asu.edu/~dsipka > Mail: Danko.Sipka at asu.edu > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From KottCoos at MAIL.RU Fri Mar 14 00:43:38 2008 From: KottCoos at MAIL.RU (Goloviznin Konstantin) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 06:43:38 +0600 Subject: real English? Message-ID: Dear Seelangers. The phrase "It takes time" is translated into Russian as "Dlya etogo nujno vremya". But making a back translation imposing only condition to be closest to "word-to-word" translation I got that - "It's in of time". Is this translation real English (imho, "smells" like real) or still "disguised" Russian. The same concern has appeared for the couple "Rukoy podat" and "at a throw of a hand". If this is far from the idea of "not far from here" could you point me what this "throw ..." associated in meaning with? -- Resply, Goloviznin mailto:KottCoos at mail.ru ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Fri Mar 14 01:11:28 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:11:28 -0400 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <742225598.20080314064338@mail.ru> Message-ID: Goloviznin Konstantin wrote: > Dear Seelangers. > > The phrase "It takes time" is translated into Russian as "Dlya etogo > nujno vremya". But making a back translation imposing only condition > to be closest to "word-to-word" translation I got that - "It's in of > time". Is this translation real English (imho, "smells" like real) or > still "disguised" Russian. No, "it's in of time" is not real English, it's a sequence of English words assembled in a way that makes no sense and bears only the slightest resemblance to our grammar. In general, word-for-word translation is bad translation, and we have a perfect example here. > The same concern has appeared for the couple "Rukoy podat" and "at a > throw of a hand". If this is far from the idea of "not far from here" could > you point me what this "throw ..." associated in meaning with? I'm not familiar with "at a throw of a hand"; perhaps it's British or something. We do have a phrase "a stone's throw from (somewhere)" meaning "near (somewhere)," but your listener will have to be exceptionally insightful to guess that from "at a throw of a hand." I suggest you find another source for your translations; this one is not serving you well. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kottcoos at MAIL.RU Fri Mar 14 01:18:31 2008 From: kottcoos at MAIL.RU (Goloviznin Konstantin) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 04:18:31 +0300 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <47D9D0C0.80600@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: Oh God, "Toropyjka byl golodniy - proglotil utug holodniy" :) it should be "it's in NEED of time" !!! > > Goloviznin Konstantin wrote: > > > Dear Seelangers. > > > > The phrase "It takes time" is translated into Russian as "Dlya etogo > > nujno vremya". But making a back translation imposing only condition > > to be closest to "word-to-word" translation I got that - "It's in of > > time". Is this translation real English (imho, "smells" like real) or > > still "disguised" Russian. > > No, "it's in of time" is not real English, it's a sequence of English > words assembled in a way that makes no sense and bears only the > slightest resemblance to our grammar. > > In general, word-for-word translation is bad translation, and we have a > perfect example here. > > > The same concern has appeared for the couple "Rukoy podat" and "at a > > throw of a hand". If this is far from the idea of "not far from here" could > > you point me what this "throw ..." associated in meaning with? > > I'm not familiar with "at a throw of a hand"; perhaps it's British or > something. We do have a phrase "a stone's throw from (somewhere)" > meaning "near (somewhere)," but your listener will have to be > exceptionally insightful to guess that from "at a throw of a hand." > > I suggest you find another source for your translations; this one is not > serving you well. > > -- > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. > -- > Paul B. Gallagher > pbg translations, inc. > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" > http://pbg-translations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Fri Mar 14 01:27:13 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2008 21:27:13 -0400 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Goloviznin Konstantin wrote: > Oh God, "Toropyjka byl golodniy - proglotil utug holodniy" :) > > it should be "it's in NEED of time" !!! По-лучше. До годного перевода еще далеко. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwilson at SRAS.ORG Fri Mar 14 04:55:57 2008 From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:55:57 +0300 Subject: question about slang In-Reply-To: <031320082150.7898.47D9A19000030F4C00001EDA22216125569B0A02D2089B9A019C04040A0DBF9C0A02970E080690@att.net> Message-ID: There is the Russian "chuvak" which is close in meaning with the English "dude." However, "brat," and "dvoyorodnyi brat" have no shortened versions that I'm aware of or can even imagine. "Cool" Russians sometimes use "prived," a corruption of "privet" - as in the ever more popular "prived medved." This is perhaps not a bad translation in terms of cultural use - though it doesn't have the same inferences of kinship or connection to the clan. To get that, I think you would need "tovarish" - but I'm not sure how comfortable your kids would be calling each other "comrade." Plus, "tovarish" is used by pretty much all generations of Russians, so it's not quite as cool as "chuvak." Really cool Russians will actually use "Yo" - in fact the one variant that comes to mind for translating your phrase into modern Russian is "Iyo - Chuvak!" (pronounced relishing each vowel) Maybe the native speakers here will have additional ideas. Disclaimer: Students should be carefully taught that this type of slang can be considered outright rude if used with older Russians or strangers. Also, the way the question is phrased seems to assume that Russian slang has taken all the same cultural channels as English, which, of course, it most certainly hasn't. Briefing the kids on how radically different histories and cultures can produce radically different languages might be in order as well. Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Janey Haynes Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 12:50 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] question about slang Nashville, here, with a specific word question. My first year (high school) Russian students are getting ready to perform a skit about going shopping, buying clothes for a function, etc. They stumped me today with "Ioanna Bobyevna, how do you say 'Cuz'--not 'Cousin', just Cuz?" That was followed by "And how do you say 'Bro' or 'Bra', like "Yo, Bra!' " I had to confess I had no idea. So, you brilliant minds out there, especially those who've been around Russians recently, I'd love to know! Janey Haynes Nashville, TN ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Nel.Grillaert at UGENT.BE Fri Mar 14 09:01:33 2008 From: Nel.Grillaert at UGENT.BE (Nel Grillaert) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:01:33 +0100 Subject: skazanie o stranstvii i puteshestvii po Rossii, Moldavii, ... Message-ID: Dear members of the list, I am looking for a copy of "Сказание о странствии и путешествии по России, Молдавии, Турции и Святой Земле инока Парфения" (Moskva, 1856). It was a favourite book of Dostoevsky's and served, in his own testimony, as a model for starec Zosima. I have been looking for copies in European libraries, but can't seem to find it. Does anyone know whether the book was re-edited at some point, and where I could find a copy? Thanks in advance for any suggestions, With best regards, Nel Grillaert Ghent University University of Oxford ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Fri Mar 14 09:21:25 2008 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:21:25 +0000 Subject: skazanie o stranstvii i puteshestvii po Rossii, Moldavii, ... In-Reply-To: <47DA3EED.2080503@UGent.be> Message-ID: Cambridge University Library has a copy. When looking for books in the UK always try COPAC first. Will Ryan Nel Grillaert wrote: > Dear members of the list, > > I am looking for a copy of "Сказание о странствии и путешествии по > России, Молдавии, Турции и Святой Земле инока Парфения" (Moskva, > 1856). It was a favourite book of Dostoevsky's and served, in his own > testimony, as a model for starec Zosima. > I have been looking for copies in European libraries, but can't seem > to find it. Does anyone know whether the book was re-edited at some > point, and where I could find a copy? > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions, > > With best regards, > > Nel Grillaert > Ghent University > University of Oxford > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Mar 14 10:18:14 2008 From: Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:18:14 +0100 Subject: skazanie o stranstvii i puteshestvii po Rossii, Moldavii, ... Message-ID: Did you try the library of the Abbey of Chevetogne ? bibliotheque at monasterechevetogne.com Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nel Grillaert" To: Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: [SEELANGS] skazanie o stranstvii i puteshestvii po Rossii, Moldavii, ... > Dear members of the list, > > I am looking for a copy of "Сказание о странствии и путешествии по России, > Молдавии, Турции и Святой Земле инока Парфения" (Moskva, 1856). It was a > favourite book of Dostoevsky's and served, in his own testimony, as a > model for starec Zosima. > I have been looking for copies in European libraries, but can't seem to > find it. Does anyone know whether the book was re-edited at some point, > and where I could find a copy? > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions, > > With best regards, > > Nel Grillaert > Ghent University > University of Oxford > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Mar 14 10:25:46 2008 From: Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:25:46 +0100 Subject: skazanie o stranstvii i puteshestvii po Rossii, Moldavii, ... Message-ID: There also is a copy in the library of the Pontifico Instituto Orientale in Rome. The catalogue can be xonsulted online. Google Pontifico Istituto Orientale. Frans Suass ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nel Grillaert" To: Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:01 AM Subject: [SEELANGS] skazanie o stranstvii i puteshestvii po Rossii, Moldavii, ... > Dear members of the list, > > I am looking for a copy of "Сказание о странствии и путешествии по России, > Молдавии, Турции и Святой Земле инока Парфения" (Moskva, 1856). It was a > favourite book of Dostoevsky's and served, in his own testimony, as a > model for starec Zosima. > I have been looking for copies in European libraries, but can't seem to > find it. Does anyone know whether the book was re-edited at some point, > and where I could find a copy? > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions, > > With best regards, > > Nel Grillaert > Ghent University > University of Oxford > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET Fri Mar 14 11:32:50 2008 From: hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET (Hugh Olmsted) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:32:50 -0400 Subject: skazanie o stranstvii i puteshestvii po Rossii, Moldavii, ... In-Reply-To: <47DA3EED.2080503@UGent.be> Message-ID: A further search of Union library listings turns up some more copies, including some held in the U.S. Two editions were issued, the first in 1855, the second in 1856. The Bayerische Staatsbibliothek holds both editions. The 1855 edition is in: The micropublisher IDC's catalog (IDC recently acquired by and subsumed under Brill Publishers) Ohio State Univ. The 1856 edition is held by: Cambridge University Columbia Univ. Harvard Holy Trinity Orthodox Seminary, Jordanville, NY Univ. of Illinois (microfilm) Princeton Univ. of Wisconsin Hugh Olmsted On Mar 14, 2008, at 5:01 AM, Nel Grillaert wrote: > Dear members of the list, > > I am looking for a copy of "Сказание о > странствии и путешествии по России, > Молдавии, Турции и Святой Земле > инока Парфения" (Moskva, 1856). It was a favourite book > of Dostoevsky's and served, in his own testimony, as a model for > starec Zosima. > I have been looking for copies in European libraries, but can't > seem to find it. Does anyone know whether the book was re-edited at > some point, and where I could find a copy? > > Thanks in advance for any suggestions, > > With best regards, > > Nel Grillaert > Ghent University > University of Oxford > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yvj2p at VIRGINIA.EDU Fri Mar 14 12:53:09 2008 From: yvj2p at VIRGINIA.EDU (Katya Jordan) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:53:09 -0400 Subject: question about slang Message-ID: "Bratan" or "bratel'nik" (with the stress on the second syllable) would work in this context, both when addressing someone and when talking about him. Remember that in Russia the difference between a brother and a cousin is not huge, i.e. one is "rodnoi" and the other is "dvoiurodnyi," but most importantly they both are brothers. "Chuvak" implies that the person is a stranger. Katya Jordan Department of Slavic Languages & Literatures University of Virginia 109 New Cabell Hall / PO Box 400783 Charlottesville, Virginia 22904-4783 Tel: (434) 924-3548 FAX: (434) 982-2744 -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Janey Haynes Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 12:50 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] question about slang Nashville, here, with a specific word question. My first year (high school) Russian students are getting ready to perform a skit about going shopping, buying clothes for a function, etc. They stumped me today with "Ioanna Bobyevna, how do you say 'Cuz'--not 'Cousin', just Cuz?" That was followed by "And how do you say 'Bro' or 'Bra', like "Yo, Bra!' " I had to confess I had no idea. So, you brilliant minds out there, especially those who've been around Russians recently, I'd love to know! Janey Haynes Nashville, TN ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwilson at SRAS.ORG Fri Mar 14 13:21:32 2008 From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:21:32 +0300 Subject: question about slang In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "Chuvak" may imply a stranger by grammatical construction - but it is used among youth to refer to friends. (Neither are "cool" things necessarily cool or "bad" or "sick" things necessarily living up to their descriptors either.) Also, "bro" does not necessarily carry the meaning that the person referred to is necessarily well known, simply accepted. Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Katya Jordan Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 3:53 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] question about slang "Bratan" or "bratel'nik" (with the stress on the second syllable) would work in this context, both when addressing someone and when talking about him. Remember that in Russia the difference between a brother and a cousin is not huge, i.e. one is "rodnoi" and the other is "dvoiurodnyi," but most importantly they both are brothers. "Chuvak" implies that the person is a stranger. Katya Jordan Department of Slavic Languages & Literatures University of Virginia 109 New Cabell Hall / PO Box 400783 Charlottesville, Virginia 22904-4783 Tel: (434) 924-3548 FAX: (434) 982-2744 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT Fri Mar 14 13:32:56 2008 From: gianpaolo.gandolfo at FASTWEBNET.IT (Giampaolo Gandolfo) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:32:56 +0100 Subject: Aleksandr Nevskij cantata Message-ID: I am sicerely grateful to all those that provided ideas and suggestions for a possible interpretation of the Latin verses. I am now going to check the text of Stravinsky's simphony, and see if it contains analogies, similarities or contaminations that might br useful fo the purpose. I will let yoy know. Sincerely Giampaolo Gandolfo -- Io utilizzo la versione gratuita di SPAMfighter per utenti privati. Sino ad ora ha rimosso 393 mail spam. Gli utenti paganti non hanno questo messaggio nelle loro email . Prova gratuitamente SPAMfighter qui:http://www.spamfighter.com/lit ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bmdamare at UMICH.EDU Fri Mar 14 14:48:33 2008 From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU (bmdamare at UMICH.EDU) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:48:33 -0400 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <47D9D0C0.80600@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: There is an English expression "at an arm's throw", although it's far less common than "a stone's throw". I'd stick with the stone, as well. Quoting "Paul B. Gallagher" : > I'm not familiar with "at a throw of a hand"; perhaps it's British or > something. We do have a phrase "a stone's throw from (somewhere)" > meaning "near (somewhere)," but your listener will have to be > exceptionally insightful to guess that from "at a throw of a hand." - Brad Damare' Dept of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at ROGERS.COM Fri Mar 14 14:59:19 2008 From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (colkitto@rogers.com) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:59:19 -0400 Subject: real English? Message-ID: Original Message: ----------------- From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:48:33 -0400 To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] real English? > There is an English expression "at an arm's throw", There is?????????? > although it's far less common than "a stone's throw". To the point of non-existence? > I'd stick with the stone, as well. Quoting "Paul B. Gallagher" : > I'm not familiar with "at a throw of a hand"; perhaps it's British or > something. We do have a phrase "a stone's throw from (somewhere)" > meaning "near (somewhere)," but your listener will have to be > exceptionally insightful to guess that from "at a throw of a hand." - Brad Damare' Dept of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bmdamare at UMICH.EDU Fri Mar 14 15:06:06 2008 From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU (bmdamare at UMICH.EDU) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:06:06 -0400 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <380-220083514145919141@M2W043.mail2web.com> Message-ID: A simple google search could have answered your question. Very rare, yes. Nonexistent, no. It could be just a "wrong" expression that's picked up some currency, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Quoting "colkitto at rogers.com" : > Original Message: > ----------------- > From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU > Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:48:33 -0400 > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] real English? > > >> There is an English expression "at an arm's throw", > > There is?????????? > > >> although it's far > less common than "a stone's throw". > > To the point of non-existence? > > >> I'd stick with the stone, as well. > > > Quoting "Paul B. Gallagher" : > >> I'm not familiar with "at a throw of a hand"; perhaps it's British or >> something. We do have a phrase "a stone's throw from (somewhere)" >> meaning "near (somewhere)," but your listener will have to be >> exceptionally insightful to guess that from "at a throw of a hand." > > > - Brad Damare' > Dept of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Michigan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - > http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU Fri Mar 14 15:06:31 2008 From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:06:31 -0400 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <380-220083514145919141@M2W043.mail2web.com> Message-ID: I've never heard it, either, but a google search turns up 188 hits, so someone's using it. It would be interesting to know what its regional or other distribution is. Cheers, David David Powelstock Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures Undergraduate Advising Head, Russian Language and Literature Chair, Program in Russian & East European Studies Brandeis University GREA, MS 024 Waltham, MA 02454-9110 781.736.3347 (Office) -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of colkitto at rogers.com Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:59 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] real English? Original Message: ----------------- From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:48:33 -0400 To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] real English? > There is an English expression "at an arm's throw", There is?????????? > although it's far less common than "a stone's throw". To the point of non-existence? > I'd stick with the stone, as well. Quoting "Paul B. Gallagher" : > I'm not familiar with "at a throw of a hand"; perhaps it's British or > something. We do have a phrase "a stone's throw from (somewhere)" > meaning "near (somewhere)," but your listener will have to be > exceptionally insightful to guess that from "at a throw of a hand." - Brad Damare' Dept of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Michigan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web LIVE – Free email based on Microsoft® Exchange technology - http://link.mail2web.com/LIVE ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From k.r.hauge at ILOS.UIO.NO Fri Mar 14 15:24:41 2008 From: k.r.hauge at ILOS.UIO.NO (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Kjetil_R=E5_Hauge?=) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:24:41 +0100 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <000b01c885e4$fcb42040$120d4081@brandeis.edu> Message-ID: David Powelstock wrote: > I've never heard it, either, but a google search turns up 188 hits, so > someone's using it. It would be interesting to know what its regional or > other distribution is. Apparently, this piece of phraseology previously allowed you to throw almost anything you might have at hand. The OED defines "throw" as "6. The distance to which anything may or is to be thrown: often qualified, as a stone's throw" giving among the examples: "The enimyes were come, within the throwe of a Dart" (1582) "The two Cavaliers had now approach'd within a Throw of a Lance" (1704, Swift; explains the 'arm's throw') "The vessel steamed within a biscuit-throw of the southern cliffs." (1893) -- --- Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo, PO Box 1003 Blindern, N-0315 Oslo, Norway Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwilson at SRAS.ORG Fri Mar 14 15:39:59 2008 From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:39:59 +0300 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <47DA98B9.4070707@ilos.uio.no> Message-ID: So an "arm's throw" is how far you can throw an arm? Cool - obviously something from our more barbaric days... >The OED defines "throw" as "6. >The distance to which anything may or is to be thrown: often qualified, >as a stone's throw" giving among the examples: Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Kjetil Rå Hauge Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 6:25 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] real English? Apparently, this piece of phraseology previously allowed you to throw almost anything you might have at hand. The OED defines "throw" as "6. The distance to which anything may or is to be thrown: often qualified, as a stone's throw" giving among the examples: ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU Fri Mar 14 15:39:22 2008 From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 11:39:22 -0400 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <47DA98B9.4070707@ilos.uio.no> Message-ID: Very interesting -- and it suggest a rather gruesome image to go with "an arm's throw." I rather like the expression, "I wouldn't trust her/im as far I can throw her/im." David Powelstock Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures Undergraduate Advising Head, Russian Language and Literature Chair, Program in Russian & East European Studies Brandeis University GREA, MS 024 Waltham, MA 02454-9110 781.736.3347 (Office) -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Kjetil Rå Hauge Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 11:25 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] real English? David Powelstock wrote: > I've never heard it, either, but a google search turns up 188 hits, > so someone's using it. It would be interesting to know what its > regional or other distribution is. Apparently, this piece of phraseology previously allowed you to throw almost anything you might have at hand. The OED defines "throw" as "6. The distance to which anything may or is to be thrown: often qualified, as a stone's throw" giving among the examples: "The enimyes were come, within the throwe of a Dart" (1582) "The two Cavaliers had now approach'd within a Throw of a Lance" (1704, Swift; explains the 'arm's throw') "The vessel steamed within a biscuit-throw of the southern cliffs." (1893) -- --- Kjetil Rå Hauge, U. of Oslo, PO Box 1003 Blindern, N-0315 Oslo, Norway Tel. +47/22856710, fax +47/22854140 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU Fri Mar 14 16:09:47 2008 From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (Wayles Browne) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:09:47 -0400 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <000b01c885e4$fcb42040$120d4081@brandeis.edu> Message-ID: David said 188 hits, but my Google search found only 6, of which 4 are in fact the same instance (from Proz, a site devoted to discussing translations). The instance represented by the 4 hits was written by an English speaker who has lived, studied, and worked in Germany for a long time. I'd say that the expression is not just rare, but so rare that we shouldn't advise anyone to use it. At 11:06 AM -0400 3/14/08, David Powelstock wrote: > I've never heard it, either, but a google search turns up 188 hits, so >someone's using it. It would be interesting to know what its regional or >other distribution is. > >Cheers, >David > > >David Powelstock >Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures >Undergraduate Advising Head, Russian Language and Literature >Chair, Program in Russian & East European Studies >Brandeis University >GREA, MS 024 >Waltham, MA 02454-9110 >781.736.3347 (Office) > > >-----Original Message----- >From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list >[mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of colkitto at rogers.com >Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:59 AM >To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu >Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] real English? > >Original Message: >----------------- >From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU >Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:48:33 -0400 >To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu >Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] real English? > > > There is an English expression "at an arm's throw", > >There is?????????? > > >> although it's far >less common than "a stone's throw". > >To the point of non-existence? -- Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics Department of Linguistics Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From j.m.andrew at LANG.KEELE.AC.UK Fri Mar 14 16:29:01 2008 From: j.m.andrew at LANG.KEELE.AC.UK (Joe Andrew) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:29:01 +0000 Subject: Tuberculosis in Russian Culture Message-ID: Dear SEELANGERS Can anyone help with the following query from a postgrad? Many thanks Joe Do you happen to know of any specifically Russian cultural sybolism attached to TB/ consumption? So far it looks to me as if the stereotypes in Russian 19th century lit are (admittedly, slightly eccentric) appropriations of Western Romantic consumptive stereotypes. I wonder whether you know of any special significance in the Church (consumptive Russian saints? a holy death/ sign of God's favour, as it is in English Protestantism?). I'm working on the assumption that literate Russians were so immersed in Western literary chliches for so long that, if there ever was a uniquely Russian consumptive myth, it was well assimilated into the Western myth by the time Dostoevsky wrote The Idiot. According to Clark Lawlor's cultural history of TB, it really is a Western phenomenon & doesn't exist elsewhere, even in countries that have a lot of TB. ---------------------- Joe Andrew j.m.andrew at lang.keele.ac.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bmdamare at UMICH.EDU Fri Mar 14 16:37:20 2008 From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU (bmdamare at UMICH.EDU) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:37:20 -0400 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I get 240 for "arm's throw", and from an eyeball estimate I'd say about 85% of them are the expression we're discussing, most of them unique hits. No idea if it's a regional thing - I heard it a lot on the Gulf Coast growing up, but most of the hits are more north-easterly. Incidentally, one of them is from the New York Times: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9506EFD81639F934A25755C0A962948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2 All in all, I second the advice that it's better to stick with the stone. Quoting Wayles Browne : > David said 188 hits, but my Google search found only 6, of which 4 > are in fact the same instance (from Proz, a site devoted to > discussing translations). The instance represented by the 4 hits was > written by an English speaker who has lived, studied, and worked in > Germany for a long time. I'd say that the expression is not just > rare, but so rare that we shouldn't advise anyone to use it. > > > At 11:06 AM -0400 3/14/08, David Powelstock wrote: >> I've never heard it, either, but a google search turns up 188 hits, so >> someone's using it. It would be interesting to know what its regional or >> other distribution is. >> >> Cheers, >> David >> >> >> David Powelstock >> Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures >> Undergraduate Advising Head, Russian Language and Literature >> Chair, Program in Russian & East European Studies >> Brandeis University >> GREA, MS 024 >> Waltham, MA 02454-9110 >> 781.736.3347 (Office) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list >> [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of colkitto at rogers.com >> Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 10:59 AM >> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu >> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] real English? >> >> Original Message: >> ----------------- >> From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU >> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 10:48:33 -0400 >> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu >> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] real English? >> >> > There is an English expression "at an arm's throw", >> >> There is?????????? >> >> >>> although it's far >> less common than "a stone's throw". >> >> To the point of non-existence? > > -- > > Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics > Department of Linguistics > Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University > Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. > > tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) > fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) > e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tritt002 at TC.UMN.EDU Fri Mar 14 17:00:49 2008 From: tritt002 at TC.UMN.EDU (Mike Trittipo) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 12:00:49 -0500 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mar 14 2008, Wayles Browne wrote: >David said 188 hits, but my Google search found only 6, of which 4 Google using the exact phrase "an arm's throw" with the quotation marks estimated the number at 188 originally, but by the third page had revised the estimate down to 33 (by omitting others "similar" to the 33). The 33 included pages outside Proz, of course. http://www.rootsweb.com/~nehamilt/cemetery/farmer.html (in what is claimed to be a 1934 article written in a Lincoln, Nebraska newspaper) and http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/2278/all_the_worlds_a_stage_inside_.php quoting a Canadian in Ontario and http://archive.uua.org/news/mblanding.html quoting an East Coast prof. and http://www.nps.gov/shen/historyculture/displaced.htm apparently written by Audrey J. Horning, of the Colonial Williamsburg Foundation and The Queen's University of Belfast. I've only ever heard "a stone's throw." And "a stone's throw" is what I'd write. I'd probably also edit "an arm's throw" into "a stone's throw" if asked to polish something. But the span of years (1934 to now) and geography (Nebraska, Ontario, Belfast) in apparently native users seems to show -- I won't say an actual idiom, but at least a mistaken form that reappears spontaneously. It also happens to appear as a string in Antony and Cleopatra: A Novel By Colleen McCullough, but the context there is clearly literal, not idiomatic: "[Agrippa had a secret weapon.] He had taken an ordinary tossing grapnel and turned i into something that could be fired from a scorpion at a much longer distance than an arm's throw." Michael Trittipo Minneapolis, Minnesota ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Fri Mar 14 19:17:26 2008 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:17:26 -0400 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <20080314123720.7cvcv3hyookccos0@web.mail.umich.edu> Message-ID: However, going back to the original translation question, "rukoj podat'" does not suggest any visibility of the end point, and it seems that all "throw"-expressins somehow do suggest that. Am I wrong? Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Fri, 14 Mar 2008, bmdamare at UMICH.EDU wrote: > I get 240 for "arm's throw", and from an eyeball estimate I'd say about 85% > of them are the expression we're discussing, most of them unique hits. No > idea if it's a regional thing - I heard it a lot on the Gulf Coast growing > up, but most of the hits are more north-easterly. > > Incidentally, one of them is from the New York Times: > http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9506EFD81639F934A25755C0A962948260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=2 > > All in all, I second the advice that it's better to stick with the stone. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Fri Mar 14 19:22:06 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:22:06 -0400 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Wayles Browne wrote: > David said 188 hits, but my Google search found only 6, of which 4 are > in fact the same instance (from Proz, a site devoted to discussing > translations). The instance represented by the 4 hits was written by an > English speaker who has lived, studied, and worked in Germany for a long > time. I'd say that the expression is not just rare, but so rare that we > shouldn't advise anyone to use it. Agreed. I also got only six hits, plus two if I omitted the apostrophe. But I did get 201 by omitting the preposition (vs. 1.36 million for "a stone's throw"). -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yvj2p at VIRGINIA.EDU Fri Mar 14 19:43:09 2008 From: yvj2p at VIRGINIA.EDU (Katya Jordan) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:43:09 -0400 Subject: question about slang Message-ID: "Bratan" doesn't necessarily signify a state of kinship either. I was only making a point that "cuz" and "bro" could be translated with the same Russian word just because culturally in Russia there is a different understanding about these types of familial relationship than there is in the U.S. And although I am not a specialist in etymology, it is easy to see the link between these two words and the words they are derived from. "Chuvak" is perfectly fine too; it's just slightly different. Now, I know the primary and most widely accepted meanings of the words like "cool," "sick," and "bad." But does the slang word "chuvak" have any other meanings? And "chuvikha"? Now I'm curious. Katya Jordan Department of Slavic Languages & Literatures University of Virginia 109 New Cabell Hall / PO Box 400783 Charlottesville, Virginia 22904-4783 Tel: (434) 924-3548 FAX: (434) 982-2744 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Fri Mar 14 21:06:04 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 17:06:04 -0400 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Edward M Dumanis wrote: > However, going back to the original translation question, "rukoj > podat'" does not suggest any visibility of the end point, and it > seems that all "throw"-expressins somehow do suggest that. Am I > wrong? Depending on topography and manmade development, the end point of a stone's throw might or might not be visible. But usually it would be. For reference, a professional baseball player is considered exceptional if he can throw a five-ounce (140 g) ball from the outfield to home plate without bouncing it or allowing it to rise more than about 20 feet (6 m) -- a distance of some 70-80 meters. If he were allowed complete freedom, he might manage a 100-meter throw with a high point of 50 meters above the ground. Figuratively, I think the expression might extend a little farther, but not more than twice that distance. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Fri Mar 14 21:37:34 2008 From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:37:34 -0000 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <47DAD05E.5030903@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: Aren't you all forgetting the expression "at arm's length" which spatially means something very close to "rukoi podat'"? Andrew Jameson Malvern WR14 3RQ 01684 572466 -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher Sent: Friday, March 14, 2008 7:22 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] real English? Wayles Browne wrote: > David said 188 hits, but my Google search found only 6, of which 4 are > in fact the same instance (from Proz, a site devoted to discussing > translations). The instance represented by the 4 hits was written by > an English speaker who has lived, studied, and worked in Germany for a > long time. I'd say that the expression is not just rare, but so rare > that we shouldn't advise anyone to use it. Agreed. I also got only six hits, plus two if I omitted the apostrophe. But I did get 201 by omitting the preposition (vs. 1.36 million for "a stone's throw"). -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tritt002 at TC.UMN.EDU Sat Mar 15 01:05:15 2008 From: tritt002 at TC.UMN.EDU (Michael Trittipo) Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:05:15 -0500 Subject: real English? In-Reply-To: <002201c8861b$9d86b830$0300a8c0@ANDREW> Message-ID: Andrew Jameson wrote: > Aren't you all forgetting the expression "at arm's length" which spatially > means something very close to "rukoi podat'"? Rather than forgetting, they're probably just sticking to the original question's scope. It didn't ask for suggested translations: "If this [English] is far from the idea of 'not far from here' could you point me what this 'throw ...' associated in meaning with?" So the replies that "within [something's] throw" does indeed mean "not far away" were addressed to the question as asked. Paul G. noted at the get-go that the phrasing given was not English, gave the best English phrasing that uses the specified verb to indicate proximity, and suggested the asker seek a better translation source. "At arm's length" specifically is an odd phrase, of course, because of its legal meaningh which emphasizes distance, not proximity; it is meant to negate being close enough to embrace or to to be hand in glove with s.o. But that's a different topic, too. Michael Trittipo Minneapolis, MN ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From office at DELTA-IC.NET Sat Mar 15 16:49:40 2008 From: office at DELTA-IC.NET (Delta Intercontact) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:49:40 +0300 Subject: Russian Language Studies in Tver, Russia Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, I hope the information in this letter might be useful for your students, colleagues or anybody interested in studying, traveling or living in Russia. Language School Delta Intercontact, in Tver, Russia, announces the enrollment to the Summer School of Russian Language and Area Studies 2008. You may choose the length of their program from two weeks up to eight weeks. We invite participants at all language levels and from all educational and professional backgrounds. Our regular programs combine four hours of Russian language instruction daily with regular afternoon sessions on Russian history, literature, and area studies. However, you can choose to come study for only two academic hours a week or for as many as 40 academic hours weekly of intensive course. We are very flexible in arranging each program. Homestays and an extensive cultural and excursion program round out the immersion experience. We are willing to tailor our program to your specific needs and requirements. Delta Intercontact employs a team of experienced instructors and professors who are experts in teaching Russian as a foreign language at all levels. Our friendly support staff will make your stay in Russia as comfortable and enjoyable as possible. Upon completion of the program all students will receive our certificates. However, students may choose to request a diploma signed, sealed and sent to their University by the Tver State University. This will allow them to receive credits at their home Universities. Apart from Russian classes we arrange internships and guidance for the individual research projects in literature, history, politics or religion with the supervision of our professors. The alumni will be happy to give their references upon request. Please contact me at office at delta-ic.net if you have any questions about our programs. I would be happy to send you more information and correspond with you further about any of our programs. You may also wish to explore our web site at www.delta-ic.net. Sincerely, Darya Motorkina Academic Programs Director Delta Intercontact Tver, Russia ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From maptekman at GMAIL.COM Sat Mar 15 18:54:56 2008 From: maptekman at GMAIL.COM (Marina Aptekman) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:54:56 -0400 Subject: SEELANGS Digest - 14 Mar 2008 (#2008-101) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am sorry for a question that may seem quite banal. I am teaching "Master and Margarita" for the first time in my life a part of a 20th century literature class, and suddenly I got scared. The problem is that the scope of the novel is so large and so MUCH has been written and known about it, that it is very hard to put together to bring forward to students in just three classes. Can anyone share with me what articles and/or books you used both to prepare for seminars/lectures or to give to you students as handouts? Which works are considered canonical in the study of the novel? How did you structure the lectures - what topics did you discuss first and what later? Did showing the frangments from new TV series help to show the time atmosphere ? Did you use outside sourses - pictures, music, etc. As much as it seems that I know the novel by heart - long ago I even led a tout called "Bulgakov's Jerusalem" I suddenly really gor scared and even confused... Will be glad for any advice! Thank you Marina Aptekman Cornell University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Mar 15 19:37:32 2008 From: Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:37:32 +0100 Subject: SEELANGS Digest - 14 Mar 2008 (#2008-101) Message-ID: Would this link be of any practical use? Frans Suasso, Naarden the Netherlands http://www.masterandmargarita.eu/en/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marina Aptekman" To: Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 7:54 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] SEELANGS Digest - 14 Mar 2008 (#2008-101) >I am sorry for a question that may seem quite banal. I am teaching "Master > and Margarita" for the first time in my life a part of a 20th century > literature class, and suddenly I got scared. The problem is that the scope > of the novel is so large and so MUCH has been written and known about it, > that it is very hard to put together to bring forward to students in just > three classes. Can anyone share with me what articles and/or books you > used > both to prepare for seminars/lectures or to give to you students as > handouts? Which works are considered canonical in the study of the novel? > How did you structure the lectures - what topics did you discuss first and > what later? Did showing the frangments from new TV series help to show > the > time atmosphere ? Did you use outside sourses - pictures, music, etc. > > As much as it seems that I know the novel by heart - long ago I even led a > tout called "Bulgakov's Jerusalem" I suddenly really gor scared and even > confused... Will be glad for any advice! > > Thank you > > Marina Aptekman > Cornell University > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sdsures at GMAIL.COM Sat Mar 15 19:58:47 2008 From: sdsures at GMAIL.COM (Stephanie Sures) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 14:58:47 -0500 Subject: question about slang Message-ID: How about "sweet!"? As in, "That was a sweet deal on that shirt!" Laskoviy (ласковый)? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Sat Mar 15 23:41:29 2008 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:41:29 -0800 Subject: Russian expression Message-ID: Can anyone assist me with translating the following phrase, which describes conditions at the front during WWII: Доставляли это всё ночью, так что каша и в рот не лезла. He's saying the food was delivered at night, so did the kasha not even make it into the soldiers' mouths, and if not, what is he implying, perhaps it was bad by the time they woke up, or does he mean they gulped the kasha down quickly, or something else? Sarah Hurst No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 2:36 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Sat Mar 15 23:49:22 2008 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 19:49:22 -0400 Subject: Russian expression In-Reply-To: <000001c886f6$18eea930$0101a8c0@Bitches> Message-ID: It seems that they simply did not want to interrupt their sleep at night time. "Night" is different from "evening" here. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Sat, 15 Mar 2008, Sarah Hurst wrote: > Can anyone assist me with translating the following phrase, which describes > conditions at the front during WWII: > > > > Доставляли это всё ночью, так что каша и в рот не лезла. > > > > He's saying the food was delivered at night, so did the kasha not even make > it into the soldiers' mouths, and if not, what is he implying, perhaps it > was bad by the time they woke up, or does he mean they gulped the kasha down > quickly, or something else? > > > > Sarah Hurst > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 > 2:36 PM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Sat Mar 15 23:52:50 2008 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2008 15:52:50 -0800 Subject: Russian expression In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I see, yes, if they delivered the kasha and then took it away again during the night. -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Edward M Dumanis Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2008 3:49 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Russian expression It seems that they simply did not want to interrupt their sleep at night time. "Night" is different from "evening" here. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Sat, 15 Mar 2008, Sarah Hurst wrote: > Can anyone assist me with translating the following phrase, which describes > conditions at the front during WWII: > > > > Доставляли это всё ночью, так что каша и в рот не лезла. > > > > He's saying the food was delivered at night, so did the kasha not even make > it into the soldiers' mouths, and if not, what is he implying, perhaps it > was bad by the time they woke up, or does he mean they gulped the kasha down > quickly, or something else? > > > > Sarah Hurst > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 > 2:36 PM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 2:36 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: 3/15/2008 2:36 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From avardan at FREENET.AM Sun Mar 16 14:11:38 2008 From: avardan at FREENET.AM (Ashot Vardanyan) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:11:38 +0400 Subject: > [SEELANGS] Russian expression Message-ID: My guess is there could be two explanations: either the quality of the meals was bad -- cold, vapid, hard, etc., or the soldiers were so tired after a battle, march, etc., that they were unable to wake up and eat anything. I would translate this sentence so: "Since sll this [the food] was delivered in the night / at night, the soldiers couldn't eat the porridge if they tried." Ashot Vardanyan, University of Iowa 03/15 23:45 Sarah Hurst wrote: > Can anyone assist me with translating the following phrase, which describes > conditions at the front during WWII: > > > > ���������� ��� �ӣ �����, ��� ��� ���� � � ��� �� �����. > > > > He's saying the food was delivered at night, so did the kasha not > even make > it into the soldiers' mouths, and if not, what is he implying, > perhaps it > was bad by the time they woke up, or does he mean they gulped the > kasha down > quickly, or something else? > > > > Sarah Hurst > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: > 3/15/2008 > 2:36 PM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > -- http://www.freenet.am/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Sun Mar 16 14:28:02 2008 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 14:28:02 +0000 Subject: > [SEELANGS] Russian expression In-Reply-To: <200803161411.m2GEBcNP002821@anubis.freenet.am> Message-ID: It's highly unlikely that hungry soldiers would have refused food simply because it was poor quality. Really we need a lot more context to make sense of this. R. > My guess is there could be two explanations: either the quality of the meals > was bad -- cold, vapid, hard, etc., or the soldiers were so tired after a > battle, march, etc., that they were unable to wake up and eat anything. > > I would translate this sentence so: > > "Since sll this [the food] was delivered in the night / at night, the soldiers > couldn't eat the porridge if they tried." > > Ashot Vardanyan, > University of Iowa > > 03/15 23:45 Sarah Hurst wrote: >> Can anyone assist me with translating the following phrase, which describes >> conditions at the front during WWII: >> >> >> >> ‰œ”‘¡◊×Å ‹‘œ ◊”£ Œœfiÿ¿, ‘¡À fi‘œ À¡€¡ … ◊ “œ‘ Œ≈ Ã≈⁄á. >> >> >> >> He's saying the food was delivered at night, so did the kasha not >> even make >> it into the soldiers' mouths, and if not, what is he implying, >> perhaps it >> was bad by the time they woke up, or does he mean they gulped the >> kasha down >> quickly, or something else? >> >> >> >> Sarah Hurst >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: >> 3/15/2008 >> 2:36 PM >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >> subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >> at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> > > > -- > http://www.freenet.am/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From avardan at FREENET.AM Sun Mar 16 14:41:22 2008 From: avardan at FREENET.AM (Ashot Vardanyan) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:41:22 +0400 Subject: > Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] Russian expression Message-ID: I agree -- it's highly unlikely, and we'd better know more context, at least the paragraph in which the sentence is used. However, re: sleeping vs eating, I remember my father telling me that sometimes their only dream was to get just a little sleep. He was in the infantry in the war. But I remember my military experience of the early 80s as well: sometimes, after the march we were really unable to eat the cold svyornutuyu (I couldn't find the English word for that) kasha... Yes, we do need more context. Ashot 03/16 14:31 Robert Chandler wrote: > It's highly unlikely that hungry soldiers would have refused food simply > because it was poor quality. Really we need a lot more context to > make > sense of this. > > R. > > > > > > My guess is there could be two explanations: either the quality > of the meals > > was bad -- cold, vapid, hard, etc., or the soldiers were so > tired after a > > battle, march, etc., that they were unable to wake up and eat > anything. > > > > I would translate this sentence so: > > > > "Since sll this [the food] was delivered in the night / at > night, the soldiers > > couldn't eat the porridge if they tried." > > > > Ashot Vardanyan, > > University of Iowa > > > > 03/15 23:45 Sarah Hurst wrote: > >> Can anyone assist me with translating the following phrase, > which describes > >> conditions at the front during WWII: > >> > >> > >> > >> ‰œ”‘¡◊×Å ‹‘œ ◊”£ Œœfiÿ¿, > ‘¡À fi‘œ À¡€¡ … ◊ “œ‘ Œ≈ Ã≈⁄á. > >> > >> > >> > >> He's saying the food was delivered at night, so did the > kasha not > >> even make > >> it into the soldiers' mouths, and if not, what is he > implying, > >> perhaps it > >> was bad by the time they woke up, or does he mean they > gulped the > >> kasha down > >> quickly, or something else? > >> > >> > >> > >> Sarah Hurst > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> Checked by AVG. > >> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release > Date: > >> 3/15/2008 > >> 2:36 PM > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > >> subscription > >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web > Interface > >> at: > >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > http://www.freenet.am/ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web > Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- http://www.freenet.am/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From chaput at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Sun Mar 16 15:32:25 2008 From: chaput at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Patricia Chaput) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:32:25 -0400 Subject: > Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] Russian expression In-Reply-To: <200803161441.m2GEfMNP002982@anubis.freenet.am> Message-ID: Perhaps a trivial addition: as to svernutaya kasha, I think we would say congealed (coagulated), so that it is so sticky (gluteny) that it can be hard to eat without a lot of liquid to stir into it and stirring to break it down into smaller lumps. So while it can be eaten, it is hard to get down. I think the cold kasha is being described as inedible (for anyone with a choice). Pat Chaput Slavic Dept. Harvard U. On 3/16/08 10:41 AM, Ashot Vardanyan wrote: > I agree -- it's highly unlikely, and we'd better know more context, at least the paragraph in which the sentence is used. However, re: sleeping vs eating, I remember my father telling me that sometimes their only dream was to get just a little sleep. He was in the infantry in the war. But I remember my military experience of the early 80s as well: sometimes, after the march we were really unable to eat the cold svyornutuyu (I couldn't find the English word for that) kasha... > > Yes, we do need more context. > > Ashot > > 03/16 14:31 Robert Chandler wrote: > >>It's highly unlikely that hungry soldiers would have refused food simply >>because it was poor quality. Really we need a lot more context to >>make >>sense of this. >> >>R. >> >> >> >> >> >>>My guess is there could be two explanations: either the quality >> >>of the meals >> >>>was bad -- cold, vapid, hard, etc., or the soldiers were so >> >>tired after a >> >>>battle, march, etc., that they were unable to wake up and eat >> >>anything. >> >>> >>>I would translate this sentence so: >>> >>>"Since sll this [the food] was delivered in the night / at >> >>night, the soldiers >> >>>couldn't eat the porridge if they tried." >>> >>>Ashot Vardanyan, >>>University of Iowa >>> >>>03/15 23:45 Sarah Hurst wrote: >>> >>>>Can anyone assist me with translating the following phrase, >> >>which describes >> >>>>conditions at the front during WWII: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>‰œ”‘¡◊×Å ‹‘œ ◊”£ Œœfiÿ¿, >> >>‘¡À fi‘œ À¡€¡ … ◊ “œ‘ Œ≈ Ã≈⁄á. >> >>>> >>>> >>>>He's saying the food was delivered at night, so did the >> >>kasha not >> >>>>even make >>>>it into the soldiers' mouths, and if not, what is he >> >>implying, >> >>>>perhaps it >>>>was bad by the time they woke up, or does he mean they >> >>gulped the >> >>>>kasha down >>>>quickly, or something else? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>Sarah Hurst >>>> >>>> >>>>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>Checked by AVG. >>>>Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release >> >>Date: >> >>>>3/15/2008 >>>>2:36 PM >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>>>subscription >>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web >> >>Interface >> >>>>at: >>>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>>> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>>> >>>> >>> >>>-- >>>http://www.freenet.am/ >>> >>> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >> >>subscription >> >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web >> >>Interface at: >> >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>> >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >>at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > > > -- > http://www.freenet.am/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From edytaamazur at GMAIL.COM Sun Mar 16 16:32:32 2008 From: edytaamazur at GMAIL.COM (Edyta Mazur) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 18:32:32 +0200 Subject: > [SEELANGS] Russian expression In-Reply-To: Message-ID: And maybe it was so dark that thay couldnt even put any food to their mouth 2008/3/16, Robert Chandler : > > It's highly unlikely that hungry soldiers would have refused food simply > because it was poor quality. Really we need a lot more context to make > sense of this. > > R. > > > > > > My guess is there could be two explanations: either the quality of the > meals > > was bad -- cold, vapid, hard, etc., or the soldiers were so tired after > a > > battle, march, etc., that they were unable to wake up and eat anything. > > > > I would translate this sentence so: > > > > "Since sll this [the food] was delivered in the night / at night, the > soldiers > > couldn't eat the porridge if they tried." > > > > Ashot Vardanyan, > > University of Iowa > > > > 03/15 23:45 Sarah Hurst wrote: > >> Can anyone assist me with translating the following phrase, which > describes > >> conditions at the front during WWII: > >> > >> > >> > >> ‰œ"'¡◊×Å ‹'œ ◊"£ Œœfiÿ¿, '¡À fi'œ À¡€¡ … ◊ "œ' Œ≈ Ã≈⁄á. > >> > >> > >> > >> He's saying the food was delivered at night, so did the kasha not > >> even make > >> it into the soldiers' mouths, and if not, what is he implying, > >> perhaps it > >> was bad by the time they woke up, or does he mean they gulped the > >> kasha down > >> quickly, or something else? > >> > >> > >> > >> Sarah Hurst > >> > >> > >> No virus found in this outgoing message. > >> Checked by AVG. > >> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - Release Date: > >> 3/15/2008 > >> 2:36 PM > >> > >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > >> subscription > >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > >> at: > >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > -- > > http://www.freenet.am/ > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Sun Mar 16 17:23:06 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:23:06 -0000 Subject: > Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] Russian expression Message-ID: I asked a friend who served for 25 years in the Russian military. His translation "They (or we) worked so hard delivering all this during the night, that we / they were too tired to eat / couldn't face the breakfast kasha". With the notes that 1. Very often things were unloaded / delivered at night because they were secret. 2. The kasha was served very often, all were fed up with it, and it was often dry and difficult to eat even if you weren't tired. People used to joke: Khochesh kasha Da dva kuska! John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Chaput" To: Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] Russian expression > Perhaps a trivial addition: as to svernutaya kasha, I think we would say > congealed (coagulated), so that it is so sticky (gluteny) that it can be > hard to eat without a lot of liquid to stir into it and stirring to break > it down into smaller lumps. So while it can be eaten, it is hard to get > down. I think the cold kasha is being described as inedible (for anyone > with a choice). > > Pat Chaput > Slavic Dept. > Harvard U. > > On 3/16/08 10:41 AM, Ashot Vardanyan wrote: >> I agree -- it's highly unlikely, and we'd better know more context, at >> least the paragraph in which the sentence is used. However, re: sleeping >> vs eating, I remember my father telling me that sometimes their only >> dream was to get just a little sleep. He was in the infantry in the war. >> But I remember my military experience of the early 80s as well: >> sometimes, after the march we were really unable to eat the cold >> svyornutuyu (I couldn't find the English word for that) kasha... >> >> Yes, we do need more context. >> >> Ashot >> >> 03/16 14:31 Robert Chandler wrote: >> >>>It's highly unlikely that hungry soldiers would have refused food simply >>>because it was poor quality. Really we need a lot more context to >>>make >>>sense of this. >>> >>>R. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>My guess is there could be two explanations: either the quality >>> >>>of the meals >>> >>>>was bad -- cold, vapid, hard, etc., or the soldiers were so >>> >>>tired after a >>> >>>>battle, march, etc., that they were unable to wake up and eat >>> >>>anything. >>> >>>> I would translate this sentence so: >>>> >>>>"Since sll this [the food] was delivered in the night / at >>> >>>night, the soldiers >>> >>>>couldn't eat the porridge if they tried." >>>> >>>>Ashot Vardanyan, >>>>University of Iowa >>>> 03/15 23:45 Sarah Hurst wrote: >>>> >>>>>Can anyone assist me with translating the following phrase, >>> >>>which describes >>> >>>>>conditions at the front during WWII: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>‰œ”‘¡◊×Å ‹‘œ ◊”£ Œœfiÿ¿, >>> >>>‘¡À fi‘œ À¡€¡ … ◊ “œ‘ Œ≈ Ã≈⁄á. >>> >>>>> >>>>>He's saying the food was delivered at night, so did the >>> >>>kasha not >>> >>>>>even make >>>>>it into the soldiers' mouths, and if not, what is he >>> >>>implying, >>> >>>>>perhaps it >>>>>was bad by the time they woke up, or does he mean they >>> >>>gulped the >>> >>>>>kasha down >>>>>quickly, or something else? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Sarah Hurst >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>>Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - >>>>>Release >>> >>>Date: >>> >>>>>3/15/2008 >>>>>2:36 PM >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>>>>subscription >>>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web >>> >>>Interface >>> >>>>>at: >>>>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>>>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>http://www.freenet.am/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>> >>>subscription >>> >>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web >>> >>>Interface at: >>> >>>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>>subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >>>at: >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.freenet.am/ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Sun Mar 16 19:01:50 2008 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:01:50 -0800 Subject: > Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] Russian expression In-Reply-To: <002a01c8878a$7d96f1a0$0201a8c0@windows2hfn6v8> Message-ID: Thank you for all the suggestions. Unfortunately there is no more context to explain what specifically was meant, so I think the speaker was just being vague and I need to keep it vague in the translation too. Sarah Hurst -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of John Langran Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 9:23 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] Russian expression I asked a friend who served for 25 years in the Russian military. His translation "They (or we) worked so hard delivering all this during the night, that we / they were too tired to eat / couldn't face the breakfast kasha". With the notes that 1. Very often things were unloaded / delivered at night because they were secret. 2. The kasha was served very often, all were fed up with it, and it was often dry and difficult to eat even if you weren't tired. People used to joke: Khochesh kasha Da dva kuska! John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Chaput" To: Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] > Re: [SEELANGS] > [SEELANGS] Russian expression > Perhaps a trivial addition: as to svernutaya kasha, I think we would say > congealed (coagulated), so that it is so sticky (gluteny) that it can be > hard to eat without a lot of liquid to stir into it and stirring to break > it down into smaller lumps. So while it can be eaten, it is hard to get > down. I think the cold kasha is being described as inedible (for anyone > with a choice). > > Pat Chaput > Slavic Dept. > Harvard U. > > On 3/16/08 10:41 AM, Ashot Vardanyan wrote: >> I agree -- it's highly unlikely, and we'd better know more context, at >> least the paragraph in which the sentence is used. However, re: sleeping >> vs eating, I remember my father telling me that sometimes their only >> dream was to get just a little sleep. He was in the infantry in the war. >> But I remember my military experience of the early 80s as well: >> sometimes, after the march we were really unable to eat the cold >> svyornutuyu (I couldn't find the English word for that) kasha... >> >> Yes, we do need more context. >> >> Ashot >> >> 03/16 14:31 Robert Chandler wrote: >> >>>It's highly unlikely that hungry soldiers would have refused food simply >>>because it was poor quality. Really we need a lot more context to >>>make >>>sense of this. >>> >>>R. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>My guess is there could be two explanations: either the quality >>> >>>of the meals >>> >>>>was bad -- cold, vapid, hard, etc., or the soldiers were so >>> >>>tired after a >>> >>>>battle, march, etc., that they were unable to wake up and eat >>> >>>anything. >>> >>>> I would translate this sentence so: >>>> >>>>"Since sll this [the food] was delivered in the night / at >>> >>>night, the soldiers >>> >>>>couldn't eat the porridge if they tried." >>>> >>>>Ashot Vardanyan, >>>>University of Iowa >>>> 03/15 23:45 Sarah Hurst wrote: >>>> >>>>>Can anyone assist me with translating the following phrase, >>> >>>which describes >>> >>>>>conditions at the front during WWII: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>‰œ”‘¡◊×Å ‹‘œ ◊”£ Œœfiÿ¿, >>> >>>‘¡À fi‘œ À¡€¡ … â—Š “œ‘ Œ≈ Ã≈⁄á. >>> >>>>> >>>>>He's saying the food was delivered at night, so did the >>> >>>kasha not >>> >>>>>even make >>>>>it into the soldiers' mouths, and if not, what is he >>> >>>implying, >>> >>>>>perhaps it >>>>>was bad by the time they woke up, or does he mean they >>> >>>gulped the >>> >>>>>kasha down >>>>>quickly, or something else? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Sarah Hurst >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>No virus found in this outgoing message. >>>>>Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1330 - >>>>>Release >>> >>>Date: >>> >>>>>3/15/2008 >>>>>2:36 PM >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>>>>subscription >>>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web >>> >>>Interface >>> >>>>>at: >>>>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>>>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>http://www.freenet.am/ >>>> >>>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>> >>>subscription >>> >>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web >>> >>>Interface at: >>> >>>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>>> >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >>>subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >>>at: >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> http://www.freenet.am/ >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1331 - Release Date: 3/16/2008 10:34 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU Sun Mar 16 20:25:12 2008 From: kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU (Klawa Thresher) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:25:12 -0400 Subject: Russian Program to be eliminated In-Reply-To: A<200803161441.m2GEfMNP002982@anubis.freenet.am> Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am trying to gather some information that might help save our Russian program, which our new president has said will be cut because he feels that Russian is no longer relevant. If you know of any Russian programs that were threatened with closing but were saved and are still flourishing (and that could be a relative term), I would very much appreciate getting information about them. I know that this happened at Ohio State, the University of Pittsburg and Macalaster College. Since I do not know the details, if colleagues at those institutions could give me some information (especially statistics) I would be very grateful. I would appreciate getting this information as soon as possible, as I will be having a hearing on this on Friday (yes, Good Friday!) You can send this to me at kthresher at randolphcollege.edu Thank you in advance, Klawa Thresher ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU Sun Mar 16 21:50:18 2008 From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:50:18 -0400 Subject: Russian Program to be eliminated In-Reply-To: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0AD5BDA6@exchange.randolphcollege.edu> Message-ID: Klawa, I hope others with actual experience in these distressing situations will chip in and offer much more useful advice and information than I, but for starters, can your adminstration be unaware that Russian is one of the critical languages cited by the US Government in launching its "National Strategic Language Initiative"? See http://exchanges.state.gov/NSLI/. Surely this poses a challenge to the claim that Russian is no longer relevant! Is that really the best argument they've got? Best wishes, and best of luck, David David Powelstock Brandeis Univ. -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Klawa Thresher Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2008 4:25 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] Russian Program to be eliminated Dear Colleagues, I am trying to gather some information that might help save our Russian program, which our new president has said will be cut because he feels that Russian is no longer relevant. If you know of any Russian programs that were threatened with closing but were saved and are still flourishing (and that could be a relative term), I would very much appreciate getting information about them. I know that this happened at Ohio State, the University of Pittsburg and Macalaster College. Since I do not know the details, if colleagues at those institutions could give me some information (especially statistics) I would be very grateful. I would appreciate getting this information as soon as possible, as I will be having a hearing on this on Friday (yes, Good Friday!) You can send this to me at kthresher at randolphcollege.edu Thank you in advance, Klawa Thresher ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU Mon Mar 17 06:21:24 2008 From: s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU (Prof Steven P Hill) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 01:21:24 -0500 Subject: risk of Russ. prog. liquidation (Randolph Coll.) Message-ID: Dear colleagues and Prof Thresher: Klawa Thresher's message from Randolph (see below) reminds me of similar depts./programs that were in jeopardy a few years ago, and which were discussed on this list-server. If memory serves, such situations had existed in San Francisco (was it San Fran. State Univ.?) and in Portland, OR (was it Portland State College?). Does anyone out there know how those two situations eventually worked out? Hoping for the best, Steven P Hill, University of Illinois. _____________________________________________________________ Date: Mon 17 Mar 01:00:39 CDT 2008 From: Subject: Re: GETPOST SEELANGS To: "Steven P. Hill" Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:25:12 -0400 From: Klawa Thresher Subject: Russian Program to be eliminated Dear Colleagues, I am trying to gather some information that might help save our Russian program, which our new president has said will be cut because he feels that Russian is no longer relevant. If you know of any Russian programs that were threatened with closing but were saved and are still flourishing (and that could be a relative term), I would very much appreciate getting information about them. I know that this happened at Ohio State, the University of Pittsburg and Macalaster College. Since I do not know the details, if colleagues at those institutions could give me some information (especially statistics) I would be very grateful. I would appreciate getting this information as soon as possible, as I will be having a hearing on this on Friday (yes, Good Friday!) You can send this to me at kthresher at randolphcollege.edu Thank you in advance, Klawa Thresher __________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kshmakov at PDXLINK.COM Mon Mar 17 07:44:12 2008 From: kshmakov at PDXLINK.COM (Kristine Shmakov) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 00:44:12 -0700 Subject: risk of Russ. prog. liquidation (Randolph Coll.) In-Reply-To: <20080317012124.BCA34536@expms6.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Dear Steven and other, The Russian program at Portland Community College was never actually targeted for elimination. A few years ago, our entire college was undergoing severe budget cuts and the administration was scrutinizing all programs for possible reduction or elimination. As a preventative measure, I collected letters of support from the Slavic field and met with the administration to explain how critical Russian is in Oregon and Washington. This strategy worked and my program was left alone, though the college did lose about 15 full time positions, including one full time French position, and closed several programs. My program has actually expanded now to include two culture classes and a 19th century literature course, which are taught in English. This winter we had 80 students enrolled in 4 sections of first year Russian, 19 in second year and 25 in Russian culture. Our spring enrollments should be about the same. So things worked out well for us, and my program is flourishing. Now that Russian has been deemed a "critical need" language and a K-16 Russian immersion flagship program has been opened in the state, we should be safe for the foreseeable future. I hope things will work out similarly with Klawa's program. Kristine Shmakov On Mar 16, 2008, at 11:21 PM, Prof Steven P Hill wrote: > Dear colleagues and Prof Thresher: > > Klawa Thresher's message from Randolph (see below) reminds me of > similar depts./programs that were in jeopardy a few years ago, and > which were discussed on this list-server. If memory serves, such > situations had existed in San Francisco (was it San Fran. State > Univ.?) > and in Portland, OR (was it Portland State College?). > > Does anyone out there know how those two situations eventually > worked out? > > Hoping for the best, > Steven P Hill, > University of Illinois. > _____________________________________________________________ > > Date: Mon 17 Mar 01:00:39 CDT 2008 > From: > Subject: Re: GETPOST SEELANGS > To: "Steven P. Hill" > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:25:12 -0400 > From: Klawa Thresher > Subject: Russian Program to be eliminated > > Dear Colleagues, > I am trying to gather some information that might help save our > Russian > program, which our new president has said will be cut because he feels > that Russian is no longer relevant. If you know of any Russian > programs > that were threatened with closing but were saved and are still > flourishing (and that could be a relative term), I would very much > appreciate getting information about them. > I know that this happened at Ohio State, the University of > Pittsburg and > Macalaster College. Since I do not know the details, if colleagues at > those institutions could give me some information (especially > statistics) I would be very grateful. > I would appreciate getting this information as soon as possible, as I > will be having a hearing on this on Friday (yes, Good Friday!) > You can send this to me at kthresher at randolphcollege.edu > Thank you in advance, > Klawa Thresher > __________________________________________________________________ > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lyudmila.parts at MCGILL.CA Mon Mar 17 14:02:36 2008 From: lyudmila.parts at MCGILL.CA (Lyudmila Parts, Prof.) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:02:36 -0400 Subject: cheap Moscow site Message-ID: Hello, has any of you heard of this site: http://www.cheap-moscow.com? My colleague from another Dept., who speaks no Russian, is planning a trip to Moscow and St.Petersburg in August. This site offers apartments, hotels, visa and registration help, and city tours for very reasonable prices, suspiciously so. If you or anyone you know used this site or know of other ways for non-Russian speaking tourists to stay in Moscow for less than $350 a night, please let me know at lyudmila.parts at mcgill.ca Thank you, Lucy Parts. Lyudmila Parts Assistant Professor Graduate Program Director Department of Russian and Slavic Studies McGill University 688 Sherbrooke Street West, Suite 425 Montreal, Quebec, Canada H3A 3R1 office (514) 398-1719 fax (514) 398-1748 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Mon Mar 17 14:10:14 2008 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:10:14 +0100 Subject: question about slang Message-ID: I am intrigued by Josh Wilson's reference to 'prived'. Leaving aside the spelling, which looks like a contamination between standard Russian 'privet' and standard olbanskij 'preved', the whole point of olbanskij forms is to create an alternative orthography for what in principle should be the same spoken language. It is not entirely clear to me how even the coolest of Russians make it clear they are saying 'pri/eved' and not 'privet', and further enlightenment would be greatly appreciated. I don't think chuvak and chuvikha have additional meanings. Both the Bol'shoj slovar' russkogo zhargona and the Juganovs' Slovar' russkogo slenga suggest the words are borrowed from Romany; this seems plausible enough, though, for what it's worth, I can't find either word in R.S. Demeter and P.S. Demeter's Cygansko-russkij i russko-cyganskij slovar'. John Dunn. -----Original Message----- From: Josh Wilson To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 07:55:57 +0300 Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] question about slang There is the Russian "chuvak" which is close in meaning with the English "dude." However, "brat," and "dvoyorodnyi brat" have no shortened versions that I'm aware of or can even imagine. "Cool" Russians sometimes use "prived," a corruption of "privet" - as in the ever more popular "prived medved." [ . . .] John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulr at RUSSIANLIFE.NET Mon Mar 17 14:25:34 2008 From: paulr at RUSSIANLIFE.NET (Paul Richardson) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:25:34 -0400 Subject: Fwd: SEELANGS Digest - 16 Mar 2008 (#2008-104) Message-ID: Klawa: A couple of things. First, you are welcome to use our online article "Does Russia Matter" in any way you see fit (the date reads 2003, the original pub date, but we have supplemented and updated the information from time to time; if anyone has additional points worth adding, send me a note): http://www.russianlife.com/article.cfm?Number=1672 Second, as you know (since your school is on the beneficiary list) Russian Life (through self-sponsorship and through donations made by its regular readers) has for several years been distributing copies of the magazine to high schools and college Russian programs, as a way to encourage student interest in Russian culture, history and society (and thus language). If anyone reading this wants to join or read about the program, see: http://www.russianlife.com/educpatr.cfm As part of this "Education Patrons" program, we gather and maintain information on Russian language programs in the US. Here is some of the data we gathered in the last year: Of the 115 schools which responded to our most recent survey of class size (we estimate this represents half of the total universe of students and classes), there were: First year students: 3761 Second year and beyond: 3899 Total number of classes: 706 Total number of students: 8280 Schools polled which said quantity of Russian language students is: Declining: 15.3% Stable: 61.1% Growing: 23.6% Schools polled which said their Russian language program is: Threatened 35.5% Safe: 64.5% Of course we are biased. Russian is extremely relevant. And our numbers indicate that there is still stable nationwide interest in taking Russian. It could of course be higher. But it seems to me that the numbers have been mostly steady since the drop in the mid-1990s... Best of luck, Paul Richardson Publisher On Mar 17, 2008, at 1:00 AM, SEELANGS automatic digest system wrote: > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:25:12 -0400 > From: Klawa Thresher > Subject: Russian Program to be eliminated > > Dear Colleagues, > > I am trying to gather some information that might help save our > Russian > program, which our new president has said will be cut because he feels > that Russian is no longer relevant. If you know of any Russian > programs > that were threatened with closing but were saved and are still > flourishing (and that could be a relative term), I would very much > appreciate getting information about them. > > I know that this happened at Ohio State, the University of Pittsburg > and > Macalaster College. Since I do not know the details, if colleagues at > those institutions could give me some information (especially > statistics) I would be very grateful. > > I would appreciate getting this information as soon as possible, as I > will be having a hearing on this on Friday (yes, Good Friday!) > > You can send this to me at kthresher at randolphcollege.edu > > Thank you in advance, > Klawa Thresher > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwilson at SRAS.ORG Mon Mar 17 14:51:13 2008 From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:51:13 +0300 Subject: question about slang In-Reply-To: <1205763014.41ea6c7cJ.Dunn@slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: I'm afraid I'm not a linguist, so I can't explain much of the orthographic contours and implications here - but I can affirm it is firmly a part of modern Russian culture. Both "prived" and "preved" are used interchangeably (they each come up as alternative spellings for the other if you type one into yandex). Preved's even got its own Wikipedia page: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9F%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B4 Also, using another sacred measure of language, google lists 327,000 "ПРЕВЕД МЕДВЕД" hits and 375,000 (how's that for interesting) for "PREVED MEDVED" Search for just "preved" or "prived" also lists a plethora of sites. Most of those hits will go to the slew of "prikol" sites (which are all highly irreverent, perhaps to the point of pornography for more sensitive viewers) that have grown around the expression (popularized by an underground comic) See: http://prevedmedved.ru/ http://pics.protoplex.ru/pics_group/2.html for example.... As to the pronunciation - not sure I can explain that either. However, I can hear the difference when it's used (the fact that it's usually followed by a laugh similar to that of Butt-Head's from MTV fame is usually a give away, though). I don't know if I could pull it off myself, but perhaps it's one of those true tests of coolness. Like the ability to pronounce "all right" in the true style of American black culture. (I'll leave the translit of that to someone else...) All this might make for an interesting graduate project for some enterprising soul... Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of John Dunn Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 5:10 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] question about slang I am intrigued by Josh Wilson's reference to 'prived'. Leaving aside the spelling, which looks like a contamination between standard Russian 'privet' and standard olbanskij 'preved', the whole point of olbanskij forms is to create an alternative orthography for what in principle should be the same spoken language. It is not entirely clear to me how even the coolest of Russians make it clear they are saying 'pri/eved' and not 'privet', and further enlightenment would be greatly appreciated. I don't think chuvak and chuvikha have additional meanings. Both the Bol'shoj slovar' russkogo zhargona and the Juganovs' Slovar' russkogo slenga suggest the words are borrowed from Romany; this seems plausible enough, though, for what it's worth, I can't find either word in R.S. Demeter and P.S. Demeter's Cygansko-russkij i russko-cyganskij slovar'. John Dunn. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Mon Mar 17 15:20:10 2008 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:20:10 +0100 Subject: question about slang Message-ID: Thanks for the enlightenment and the references. It would seem that even in the counter-cultural world you can't get away from orthography influencing pronunciation. Even when it rather defeats the object of the exercise. I hope, though, that somewhere out there someone is writing a thesis on all this. John Dunn. -----Original Message----- From: Josh Wilson To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:51:13 +0300 Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] question about slang I'm afraid I'm not a linguist, so I can't explain much of the orthographic contours and implications here - but I can affirm it is firmly a part of modern Russian culture. [...] As to the pronunciation - not sure I can explain that either. However, I can hear the difference when it's used (the fact that it's usually followed by a laugh similar to that of Butt-Head's from MTV fame is usually a give away, though). I don't know if I could pull it off myself, but perhaps it's one of those true tests of coolness. Like the ability to pronounce "all right" in the true style of American black culture. (I'll leave the translit of that to someone else...) All this might make for an interesting graduate project for some enterprising soul... Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From siskron at SFSU.EDU Mon Mar 17 16:27:18 2008 From: siskron at SFSU.EDU (siskron at SFSU.EDU) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 09:27:18 -0700 Subject: risk of Russ. prog. liquidation (Randolph Coll.) Message-ID: The situation at SFSU was that representatives of the University Administration proposed to cut the Russian Program to a minor from a Graduate and major programs. We were told that if we chose to fight the cuts, we could keep the Program intact if we won the vote in the Academic Senate. We had extensive support in the form of letters and resolutions from the City of San Francisco, the Academic and Russian speaking communities. The student newspaper ran a series of articles on us because we were one of the few programs that resisted the cuts. The support of the Academic Community was simply heroic. Kathleen Dillon actually attended a hearing and bore witness to the bad faith of the administration. We decided to give up the graduate program (UC Berkeley and Stanford have excellent graduate programs, both located in the Bay Area) and insisted on keeping the major. We won the vote in the Academic Senate to keep the major. The administration disregarded the vote in the Academic Senate, broke its word and cut the program down to a minor. Our dean was quoted in SF Chronicle characterizing Russian as "esoteric." This is in a state that has the highest concentration of Russian speakers outside of New York. The only program that still has a Russian major in the CSU system is in San Diego. This, of course, does not mean that others should not resist these cuts. It would be good to hear from someone who actually won one of these battles. Katerina Siskron, Program Coordinator, SFSU Quoting Prof Steven P Hill : > Dear colleagues and Prof Thresher: > > Klawa Thresher's message from Randolph (see below) reminds me of > similar depts./programs that were in jeopardy a few years ago, and > which were discussed on this list-server. If memory serves, such > situations had existed in San Francisco (was it San Fran. State Univ.?) > and in Portland, OR (was it Portland State College?). > > Does anyone out there know how those two situations eventually > worked out? > > Hoping for the best, > Steven P Hill, > University of Illinois. > _____________________________________________________________ > > Date: Mon 17 Mar 01:00:39 CDT 2008 > From: > Subject: Re: GETPOST SEELANGS > To: "Steven P. Hill" > Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:25:12 -0400 > From: Klawa Thresher > Subject: Russian Program to be eliminated > > Dear Colleagues, > I am trying to gather some information that might help save our Russian > program, which our new president has said will be cut because he feels > that Russian is no longer relevant. If you know of any Russian programs > that were threatened with closing but were saved and are still > flourishing (and that could be a relative term), I would very much > appreciate getting information about them. > I know that this happened at Ohio State, the University of Pittsburg and > Macalaster College. Since I do not know the details, if colleagues at > those institutions could give me some information (especially > statistics) I would be very grateful. > I would appreciate getting this information as soon as possible, as I > will be having a hearing on this on Friday (yes, Good Friday!) > You can send this to me at kthresher at randolphcollege.edu > Thank you in advance, > Klawa Thresher > __________________________________________________________________ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET Mon Mar 17 23:41:14 2008 From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 16:41:14 -0700 Subject: Russian Program to be eliminated In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A classic example of why we are always behind the curve. Nobody needs to study languages that are "not relevant," and then when they suddenly become relevant (I'm thinking about the tremendous backlog of "chatter" in Arabic that was sitting untranslated two years after September 11, among other examples), nobody has studied them, and then even if people start studying them by the time proficiency is achieved those languages will be "not relevant" yet again. I don't know if these are technically part of NSLI or not, but of note are also the National Flagship Language Program http://www.iie.org/programs/nsep/flagship/default.htm and the National Virtual Translation Center http://www.nvtc.gov/ . On a more practical level, an unstated concern might be the need to cut specific programs rather than others due to budgetary issues. If you can come up with some ways that studying Russian might bring money into the university (say if any federal matching or incentive programs exist), well money talks as they say. I notice from Randolph's web page the claim that half the student body works or studies abroad. Where are they going, and where are funds for these programs coming from? Just a few thoughts. SEELANGS automatic digest system wrote: There are 2 messages totalling 102 lines in this issue. Topics of the day: 1. Russian Program to be eliminated (2) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2008 16:25:12 -0400 From: Klawa Thresher Subject: Russian Program to be eliminated Dear Colleagues, I am trying to gather some information that might help save our Russian program, which our new president has said will be cut because he feels that Russian is no longer relevant. If you know of any Russian programs that were threatened with closing but were saved and are still flourishing (and that could be a relative term), I would very much appreciate getting information about them. I know that this happened at Ohio State, the University of Pittsburg and Macalaster College. Since I do not know the details, if colleagues at those institutions could give me some information (especially statistics) I would be very grateful. I would appreciate getting this information as soon as possible, as I will be having a hearing on this on Friday (yes, Good Friday!) You can send this to me at kthresher at randolphcollege.edu Thank you in advance, Klawa Thresher Deborah Hoffman, Esq. Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From avs2120 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Mar 18 00:57:57 2008 From: avs2120 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Andrey Shcherbenok) Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:57:57 -0400 Subject: FW: grants for supporting Russian language and Russian culture (Russkiy Mir Foundation) In-Reply-To: <923606.29072.qm@web80613.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I just received it from a different mailing list. If it has already been posted on SEELANGS, my apologies for the cross-posting. ================================= A primary focus of the Russkiy Mir Foundation is providing grants and sponsoring competitions in support of the Russian language, Russian culture, and organizations representing the Russian world. We work directly with Russian organizations based outside Russia, those affiliated with the MAPRYAL (International Organization of Teachers of Russian and Russian Literature), and other non-governmental organizations operating through a variety of diaspora groups, education centers, universities and schools where Russian is taught. Our grants are focused on supporting Russian language and Russian culture in the world, as well as the development of the Russkiy Mir Foundation. If you would like to apply for a grant from the Russkiy Mir Foundation, you may find the application form here (in Russian). http://russkiymir.org/en/grants/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From yvj2p at VIRGINIA.EDU Tue Mar 18 11:43:53 2008 From: yvj2p at VIRGINIA.EDU (Katya Jordan) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 07:43:53 -0400 Subject: question about slang Message-ID: [It is not entirely clear to me how even the coolest of Russians make it clear they are saying 'pri/eved' and not 'privet', and further enlightenment would be greatly appreciated.] Along the same lines, try pronouncing "uzhos" with the stress on "u" but making sure that the "o" (which should've been an "a" in the first place) sounds like an "o". Katya Jordan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Janneke.vandeStadt at WILLIAMS.EDU Tue Mar 18 18:31:34 2008 From: Janneke.vandeStadt at WILLIAMS.EDU (Janneke van de Stadt) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:31:34 -0500 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds to the category. Many thanks, Janneke ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Tue Mar 18 17:36:28 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:36:28 -0400 Subject: Question on Ukrainian v/w Message-ID: I was perusing this cursory description of Ukrainian phonology: and there doesn't seem to be any mention of [v]. Is this right? Ukrainian has no [v]~[f], only /ʋ/ = [ʋ]? E.g., вовк = [ʋoʋk]([wowk] for those who cannot read IPA)? TIA. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Tue Mar 18 17:47:37 2008 From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:47:37 -0000 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: Dorogie SEELANGovtsy, I've been asked to write a not-too-serious lecture for the Annual General Meeting of a society concerned with Russian and Soviet studies. I'm calling it "Ten things you didn't know about Russia". Such things as: St Cyril didn't create the Cyrillic alphabet etc. etc. I'm wondering if you have any unusual or bizarre facts about Russia which you would like to share? Grateful for any ideas! Yours with best wishes Andrew Jameson Malvern UK ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK Tue Mar 18 17:54:58 2008 From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:54:58 +0000 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: <0A786BF5-76DB-45CF-AFB7-072989CCBCDB@williams.edu> Message-ID: Dear Janneke, You might wish to include into your list Vladimir Odoevsky's story "Poslednii kvartet Betkhovena" (1830); Aleksandr Grin's story "Sila nepostizhimogo" (1918), and two long stories penned by Iurii Nagibin — "Rakhmaninov" and "Chaikovskii"- included into his book VECHNYE SPUTNIKI (1972-79). The story about Tchaikovsky was turned into a film script later on. All best, Alexandra ======================================== Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London) Lecturer in Russian School of European Languages and Cultures The University of Edinburgh David Hume Tower George Square Edinburgh EX8 9JX UK tel. +44-(0)131-6511381 fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604 e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk Quoting van de Stadt : > Dear SEELANGers, > > I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that feature > composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the main > characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic literature, > please feel free to include any title that corresponds to the category. > > Many thanks, > Janneke > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Tue Mar 18 17:55:00 2008 From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:55:00 -0000 Subject: Question on Ukrainian v/w In-Reply-To: <47DFFD9C.2050906@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: My wife Melanie in Krasnodar noticed everyone was saying "nichewo" instead of nichevo.. Andrew Jameson 6 Gilbert Road Malvern WR14 3RQ 01684 572466 -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 5:36 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] Question on Ukrainian v/w I was perusing this cursory description of Ukrainian phonology: and there doesn't seem to be any mention of [v]. Is this right? Ukrainian has no [v]~[f], only /ʋ/ = [ʋ]? E.g., вовк = [ʋoʋk]([wowk] for those who cannot read IPA)? TIA. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From schwartzm at SBCGLOBAL.NET Tue Mar 18 17:58:52 2008 From: schwartzm at SBCGLOBAL.NET (Marian Schwartz) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:58:52 -0500 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: <0A786BF5-76DB-45CF-AFB7-072989CCBCDB@williams.edu> Message-ID: Nina Berberova's "Resurrection of Mozart" Marian Schwartz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janneke van de Stadt" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:31 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature > Dear SEELANGers, > > I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that > feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the > main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic > literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds to > the category. > > Many thanks, > Janneke > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Tue Mar 18 18:06:52 2008 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:06:52 -0400 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: <0A786BF5-76DB-45CF-AFB7-072989CCBCDB@williams.edu> Message-ID: Anatolii Vinogradov, "Osuzhdenie Paganini" (novel) Konstantin Paustovskii, "Korzina s elovymi shishkami" (novella about Edvard Grieg). Of non-Slavic, George Sand's Consuelo comes to mind (featuring Joseph Haydn, and allegedly mirroring Sand's own relationship with Chopin). Inna Caron Ph.D. Candidate, Slavic Languages and Literatures The Ohio State University 400 Hagerty Hall Columbus, OH 43210 614-292-6733 caron.4 at osu.edu -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Janneke van de Stadt Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 2:32 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature Dear SEELANGers, I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds to the category. Many thanks, Janneke ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lzaharkov at WITTENBERG.EDU Tue Mar 18 18:08:00 2008 From: lzaharkov at WITTENBERG.EDU (Lila W. Zaharkov) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:08:00 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <002801c88920$287e8c40$0300a8c0@ANDREW> Message-ID: At 01:47 PM 03/18/2008, you wrote: >Dorogie SEELANGovtsy, >I've been asked to write a not-too-serious lecture for the Annual General >Meeting of a society concerned with Russian and Soviet studies. I'm calling >it "Ten things you didn't know about Russia". Such things as: St Cyril >didn't create the Cyrillic alphabet etc. etc. >I'm wondering if you have any unusual or bizarre facts about Russia which >you would like to share? >Grateful for any ideas! >Yours with best wishes >Andrew Jameson >Malvern UK > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- Please share the list with us when you finish! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From nathanlongan at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 18 18:14:58 2008 From: nathanlongan at GMAIL.COM (Nathan Longan) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:14:58 +0300 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.1.20080318140742.01d5f6d0@imap.wittenberg.edu> Message-ID: Of course that the October Revolution didn't take place in October (or it did, but then got celebrated in November) On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 9:08 PM, Lila W. Zaharkov wrote: > At 01:47 PM 03/18/2008, you wrote: > >Dorogie SEELANGovtsy, > >I've been asked to write a not-too-serious lecture for the Annual General > >Meeting of a society concerned with Russian and Soviet studies. I'm > calling > >it "Ten things you didn't know about Russia". Such things as: St Cyril > >didn't create the Cyrillic alphabet etc. etc. > >I'm wondering if you have any unusual or bizarre facts about Russia which > >you would like to share? > >Grateful for any ideas! > >Yours with best wishes > >Andrew Jameson > >Malvern UK > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Please share the list with us when you finish! > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Nathan Longan, PhD Resident Director CIEE Study Center St. Petersburg, Russia ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Tue Mar 18 18:15:10 2008 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:15:10 -0400 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: <0A786BF5-76DB-45CF-AFB7-072989CCBCDB@williams.edu> Message-ID: Oh, and speaking of Chopin (and going back to the Slavic literatures), Jerzy Broszkiewicz's novel about Chopin "Kształt miłości" (1950), which was later turned into the film " "Młodość Chopina." Inna -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Janneke van de Stadt Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 2:32 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature Dear SEELANGers, I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds to the category. Many thanks, Janneke ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From monniern at MISSOURI.EDU Tue Mar 18 18:22:54 2008 From: monniern at MISSOURI.EDU (Nicole Monnier) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:22:54 -0500 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <002801c88920$287e8c40$0300a8c0@ANDREW> Message-ID: Andrew! Very few people realize the true size - and climate range - of Siberia. My civ students always assume that it's perpetually cold and one big prison camp somewhere to the north of Moscow . . . Nicole **************************** Dr. Nicole Monnier Assistant Teaching Professor of Russian Director of Undergraduate Studies (Russian) German & Russian Studies 428A Strickland (formerly GCB) University of Missouri Columbia, MO 65211 phone: 573.882.3370 On 3/18/08 12:47 PM, "Andrew Jameson" wrote: > Dorogie SEELANGovtsy, > I've been asked to write a not-too-serious lecture for the Annual General > Meeting of a society concerned with Russian and Soviet studies. I'm calling > it "Ten things you didn't know about Russia". Such things as: St Cyril > didn't create the Cyrillic alphabet etc. etc. > I'm wondering if you have any unusual or bizarre facts about Russia which > you would like to share? > Grateful for any ideas! > Yours with best wishes > Andrew Jameson > Malvern UK > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Tue Mar 18 18:32:34 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:32:34 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <002801c88920$287e8c40$0300a8c0@ANDREW> Message-ID: 1. Matreshki came from Japan. 2. The greatest Russian poet is 1/8 Black (octoroon). 3. The last Russian czar was 1/256 Russian by blood. 4. St. Basil cathedral is the most un-Russian church, more like Turkish, and for good reason: it was built on the occasion of the taking of Kazan. 5. It was not the Bolsheviks who abolished the monarchy. 6. Peter the Great usurped the power from his older brother Ivan V. 7. Russia covers 11 time zones. On Mar 18, 2008, at 1:47 PM, Andrew Jameson wrote: > Dorogie SEELANGovtsy, > I've been asked to write a not-too-serious lecture for the Annual > General > Meeting of a society concerned with Russian and Soviet studies. I'm > calling > it "Ten things you didn't know about Russia". Such things as: St Cyril > didn't create the Cyrillic alphabet etc. etc. > I'm wondering if you have any unusual or bizarre facts about Russia > which > you would like to share? > Grateful for any ideas! > Yours with best wishes > Andrew Jameson > Malvern UK > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Tue Mar 18 18:42:44 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:42:44 -0400 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: <0A786BF5-76DB-45CF-AFB7-072989CCBCDB@williams.edu> Message-ID: Romain Rolland. Jean-Christophe: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean- Christophe Thomas Mann. Doctor Faustus: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doktor_Faustus Kaverin. Kompozitor. On Mar 18, 2008, at 2:31 PM, Janneke van de Stadt wrote: > Dear SEELANGers, > > I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that > feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the > main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic > literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds > to the category. > > Many thanks, > Janneke > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tnicholson at PIH.ORG Tue Mar 18 18:54:08 2008 From: tnicholson at PIH.ORG (Tom Nicholson) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:54:08 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: "Considering that the defining line in a family's history was its patrilineal descent as it was just about anywhere else in the western world, Pushkin's preoccupation with his African ancestry is all the more telling since Ibrahim Gannibal was his maternal great-grandfather. Furthermore, Nadja, his mother, was through her own mother, a descendant of the same Pushkin forbear from whom her husband Serge descended. This is genetically interesting since it explains why the poet, who is generally but mistakenly accepted as an octoroon, looks perceptibly blacker." >From PBS/WGBH's Frontline, "The Blurred Racial Lines of Famous Families" -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Alina Israeli Sent: Tue 3/18/2008 2:32 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia 1. Matreshki came from Japan. 2. The greatest Russian poet is 1/8 Black (octoroon). 3. The last Russian czar was 1/256 Russian by blood. 4. St. Basil cathedral is the most un-Russian church, more like Turkish, and for good reason: it was built on the occasion of the taking of Kazan. 5. It was not the Bolsheviks who abolished the monarchy. 6. Peter the Great usurped the power from his older brother Ivan V. 7. Russia covers 11 time zones. On Mar 18, 2008, at 1:47 PM, Andrew Jameson wrote: > Dorogie SEELANGovtsy, > I've been asked to write a not-too-serious lecture for the Annual > General > Meeting of a society concerned with Russian and Soviet studies. I'm > calling > it "Ten things you didn't know about Russia". Such things as: St Cyril > didn't create the Cyrillic alphabet etc. etc. > I'm wondering if you have any unusual or bizarre facts about Russia > which > you would like to share? > Grateful for any ideas! > Yours with best wishes > Andrew Jameson > Malvern UK > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at ROGERS.COM Tue Mar 18 19:21:49 2008 From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (colkitto@rogers.com) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:21:49 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: How about (off the cuff) "The name 'Russian' originally referred to Swedish Vikings"? "The first ten (roughly) pages of "War and Peace" are in French"? "Russia and Scotland are the only countries in Europe with three kings called Alexander"? "Dutch nearly became an official language in Russia" Original Message: ----------------- From: Alina Israeli aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 14:32:34 -0400 To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia 1. Matreshki came from Japan. 2. The greatest Russian poet is 1/8 Black (octoroon). 3. The last Russian czar was 1/256 Russian by blood. 4. St. Basil cathedral is the most un-Russian church, more like Turkish, and for good reason: it was built on the occasion of the taking of Kazan. 5. It was not the Bolsheviks who abolished the monarchy. 6. Peter the Great usurped the power from his older brother Ivan V. 7. Russia covers 11 time zones. On Mar 18, 2008, at 1:47 PM, Andrew Jameson wrote: > Dorogie SEELANGovtsy, > I've been asked to write a not-too-serious lecture for the Annual > General > Meeting of a society concerned with Russian and Soviet studies. I'm > calling > it "Ten things you didn't know about Russia". Such things as: St Cyril > didn't create the Cyrillic alphabet etc. etc. > I'm wondering if you have any unusual or bizarre facts about Russia > which > you would like to share? > Grateful for any ideas! > Yours with best wishes > Andrew Jameson > Malvern UK > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface > at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web.com - Microsoft® Exchange solutions from a leading provider - http://link.mail2web.com/Business/Exchange ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Tue Mar 18 19:26:48 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:26:48 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <6A3EB88026723F41820E41201F4F5C0A02979465@pih-bosx03.pih.org> Message-ID: This is a convoluted non-logic, which would not be accepted in an undergraduate paper. The fact that Nadezhda Osipovna Gannibal was related to Pushkins on her mother side does not diminish the fact that she was a grand- daughter of Abram Petrovich Gannibal on her father's side, one does not negate the other. See the chart: http://www.as-pushkin.ru/ index.php?cnt=4 and also: http://www.genery.com/ru/drevo/images/ pushkin_big.gif It's Pushkin's blood that got infused into him twice but it does not additionally dilute the Gannibal's blood. Someone has to learn to count fractions there. (There was recently a report that Americans do not understand fractions.) On Mar 18, 2008, at 2:54 PM, Tom Nicholson wrote: > "Considering that the defining line in a family's history was its > patrilineal descent as it was just about anywhere else in the > western world, Pushkin's preoccupation with his African ancestry is > all the more telling since Ibrahim Gannibal was his maternal great- > grandfather. Furthermore, Nadja, his mother, was through her own > mother, a descendant of the same Pushkin forbear from whom her > husband Serge descended. This is genetically interesting since it > explains why the poet, who is generally but mistakenly accepted as > an octoroon, looks perceptibly blacker." > > From PBS/WGBH's Frontline, "The Blurred Racial Lines of Famous > Families" > > Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Tue Mar 18 19:36:41 2008 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 11:36:41 -0800 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <7768DD0B-51C0-44AE-8FAD-E83CFD194C65@american.edu> Message-ID: Can I just add that calculating fractions of blood percentages and using terms like "octoroon" sounds very racist and it would make a lot more sense just to say that Pushkin was descended from an African slave. Sarah Hurst -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Alina Israeli Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 11:27 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia This is a convoluted non-logic, which would not be accepted in an undergraduate paper. The fact that Nadezhda Osipovna Gannibal was related to Pushkins on her mother side does not diminish the fact that she was a grand- daughter of Abram Petrovich Gannibal on her father's side, one does not negate the other. See the chart: http://www.as-pushkin.ru/ index.php?cnt=4 and also: http://www.genery.com/ru/drevo/images/ pushkin_big.gif It's Pushkin's blood that got infused into him twice but it does not additionally dilute the Gannibal's blood. Someone has to learn to count fractions there. (There was recently a report that Americans do not understand fractions.) On Mar 18, 2008, at 2:54 PM, Tom Nicholson wrote: > "Considering that the defining line in a family's history was its > patrilineal descent as it was just about anywhere else in the > western world, Pushkin's preoccupation with his African ancestry is > all the more telling since Ibrahim Gannibal was his maternal great- > grandfather. Furthermore, Nadja, his mother, was through her own > mother, a descendant of the same Pushkin forbear from whom her > husband Serge descended. This is genetically interesting since it > explains why the poet, who is generally but mistakenly accepted as > an octoroon, looks perceptibly blacker." > > From PBS/WGBH's Frontline, "The Blurred Racial Lines of Famous > Families" > > Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1333 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:10 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1333 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:10 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tnicholson at PIH.ORG Tue Mar 18 19:46:32 2008 From: tnicholson at PIH.ORG (Tom Nicholson) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:46:32 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: Agreed, the term is archaic and implies derision. Was just forwarding along the PBS quote for discussion. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/pushkingenealogy.html -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Sarah Hurst Sent: Tue 3/18/2008 3:36 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia Can I just add that calculating fractions of blood percentages and using terms like "octoroon" sounds very racist and it would make a lot more sense just to say that Pushkin was descended from an African slave. Sarah Hurst -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Alina Israeli Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 11:27 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia This is a convoluted non-logic, which would not be accepted in an undergraduate paper. The fact that Nadezhda Osipovna Gannibal was related to Pushkins on her mother side does not diminish the fact that she was a grand- daughter of Abram Petrovich Gannibal on her father's side, one does not negate the other. See the chart: http://www.as-pushkin.ru/ index.php?cnt=4 and also: http://www.genery.com/ru/drevo/images/ pushkin_big.gif It's Pushkin's blood that got infused into him twice but it does not additionally dilute the Gannibal's blood. Someone has to learn to count fractions there. (There was recently a report that Americans do not understand fractions.) On Mar 18, 2008, at 2:54 PM, Tom Nicholson wrote: > "Considering that the defining line in a family's history was its > patrilineal descent as it was just about anywhere else in the > western world, Pushkin's preoccupation with his African ancestry is > all the more telling since Ibrahim Gannibal was his maternal great- > grandfather. Furthermore, Nadja, his mother, was through her own > mother, a descendant of the same Pushkin forbear from whom her > husband Serge descended. This is genetically interesting since it > explains why the poet, who is generally but mistakenly accepted as > an octoroon, looks perceptibly blacker." > > From PBS/WGBH's Frontline, "The Blurred Racial Lines of Famous > Families" > > Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1333 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:10 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1333 - Release Date: 3/18/2008 8:10 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET Tue Mar 18 19:57:01 2008 From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:57:01 -0700 Subject: Composers in literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Forgive if someone has already suggested - Pushkin's Mozart and Salieri. Also Franz Werfel's Verdi, Roman de Oper. Quoting van de Stadt : > Dear SEELANGers, > > I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that feature > composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the main > characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic literature, > please feel free to include any title that corresponds to the category. > > Many thanks, > Janneke > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > Deborah Hoffman, Esq. Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From billings at ncnu.edu.tw Tue Mar 18 20:12:46 2008 From: billings at ncnu.edu.tw (Loren A. Billings) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 04:12:46 +0800 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Red Square isn't red, and never was. --Loren --==Mailed via NCNU E-Mail==-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From marydevin at GMAIL.COM Tue Mar 18 20:17:13 2008 From: marydevin at GMAIL.COM (Devin Connolly) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:17:13 -0700 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <1205871166.26290.billings@ncnu.edu.tw> Message-ID: True, or that St. Basil's was originally painted white, and remained so for quite a while before it became as colorful as it is today. Devin Connolly On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Loren A. Billings wrote: > I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Red Square isn't red, and > never > was. --Loren > > --==Mailed via NCNU E-Mail==-- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ozaslav at ALUMNI.UPENN.EDU Tue Mar 18 20:07:22 2008 From: ozaslav at ALUMNI.UPENN.EDU (Olga Zaslavsky) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:07:22 +0000 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: <0A786BF5-76DB-45CF-AFB7-072989CCBCDB@williams.edu> Message-ID: Nina Berberova, Tchaikovsky Friedrich Gorenstein, Skryabin Olga Zaslavsky. > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:31:34 -0500 > From: Janneke.vandeStadt at WILLIAMS.EDU > Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > > Dear SEELANGers, > > I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that > feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the > main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic > literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds to > the category. > > Many thanks, > Janneke > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwilson at SRAS.ORG Tue Mar 18 20:33:19 2008 From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:33:19 +0300 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <002801c88920$287e8c40$0300a8c0@ANDREW> Message-ID: Russia produces some 12% of the world's aluminum, controls 20% of the world gem stone market, contains a third of the world's unmined diamonds, about a quarter (maybe more) of the world's unmined gold, and supplies 8% of the world's uranium needs. More info on that sort of thing here: http://www.sras.org/library_resource_export_russia You might also mention something about the fact that Russia is #3 in software outsourcing, was also #3 in IPOs (by money raised) in the first half of 2007, and Moscow is this year's hottest location for opening new retail locations in Europe (and St. Pete is number #2). In less glittering news, Russia is #2 in the production of email SPAM (the US is still #1) and #1 in the production of Malware (harmful programs like viruses). Oh, and the wall around Red Square looks pretty red to me and reds or red hues are the dominant motif there - the real story is the fact that "red" and "beautiful" used to be the same word in Russian. Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Andrew Jameson Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:48 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia Dorogie SEELANGovtsy, I've been asked to write a not-too-serious lecture for the Annual General Meeting of a society concerned with Russian and Soviet studies. I'm calling it "Ten things you didn't know about Russia". Such things as: St Cyril didn't create the Cyrillic alphabet etc. etc. I'm wondering if you have any unusual or bizarre facts about Russia which you would like to share? Grateful for any ideas! Yours with best wishes Andrew Jameson Malvern UK ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bmdamare at UMICH.EDU Tue Mar 18 20:47:45 2008 From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU (bmdamare at UMICH.EDU) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:47:45 -0400 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: <0A786BF5-76DB-45CF-AFB7-072989CCBCDB@williams.edu> Message-ID: Some others to consider: * Karel Capek's "Zivot a dilo skladatele Foltyna" * an obvious choice, but Pushkin's "Mozart and Salieri", of course * non-Slavic: Alejo Carpentier's "Concierto barroco" and "Los pasos perdidos" ("The Lost Steps"); Pascal Quignard's "Tous les matins du monde" ("All the World's Mornings") Best of luck with your list! - Brad Quoting Janneke van de Stadt : > Dear SEELANGers, > > I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that > feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the > main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic > literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds to > the category. > > Many thanks, > Janneke > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sp27 at CORNELL.EDU Tue Mar 18 20:58:23 2008 From: sp27 at CORNELL.EDU (Slava Paperno) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:58:23 -0400 Subject: Communal Apartments: New Online Resource In-Reply-To: <985c65300803181317l5fc75b48ibb9ecc443b6547ed@mail.gmail.co m> Message-ID: Dear SEELANGERs, Please note a new major resource created by the Colgate-Cornell team (joined now by Nancy Ries of Colgate and Ilya Utekin of European University in St. Petersburg). http://kommunalka.colgate.edu Communal Living in Russia: A Virtual Museum of Soviet Everyday Life The site took almost two years to produce, even though it was based on years of earlier research by Ilya Utekhin. You'll see three hours of video interviews filmed in St. Petersburg kommunalkas, 350 photographs, dozens of essays, and other materials. The site is bilingual: all materials, including the videos, are available in Russian and English. Select a language when you enter and change it at any time. Bilingual displays of all texts are also available. Don't miss the "Your Tours" section where you can compile series of exhibits for your students, to be used as assigments or for in-class demonstrations. You can write your own introduction and conclusion to your tours, and even annotate the exhibits. Or you can ask the students to create their own compilations and share them with fellow students or submit them as homework. Those of you who may have used "Michael and Svetlana," "Interviews from Russia," "Children from Russia," or "Life on the Atomic River" will recognize the documentary style of the kommunalka videos: they are expertly filmed by the award-winning filmmaker Slawomir Grunberg and, like those films, this new Web site brings exciting questions to the classroom: Why does Iraida Yakovlevna say "Mne otdel'naya kvartira ne nuzhna!" What does Alla Ignat'evna mean when she says "V novostrojkakh polnaya bezdukhovnost'." Did the really live "kak odna bol'shaya sem'ya"? Why is the toilet seat hanging in the kitchen, next to a toothbrush? Why does the young man refuse to fix the leaking faucet? What would you do if you had a similar huge hole in the kitchen ceiling? And so on... It's an interesting world, one where much can be learned. The site went up only a week or so ago, but I see that it is already discussed in blogs. One posting that I found through Google says "After viewing the photo galleries or watching the video tours, you don't need any further information about Soviet mentality and Soviet way of life anymore. This virtual museum shows and says everything." (from http://www.urlfan.com/local/soviet_lifestyle/72701135.html ) The project was supported by a grant from the National Ednowment of the Humanities. The names of the principal authors and the many friends and colleagues who have helped are shown in the About page. Please write off-list with any questions. We would be gratefull for opinions and suggestions. Slava Paperno ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Mar 18 21:01:43 2008 From: a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM (Alex) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 23:01:43 +0200 Subject: Composers in Literature Message-ID: Dear Janneke, how about translations? I don't know if you could read cyrillic. Please, look at this page: http://www.biglib.com.ua/book.php?ID=2066 This is a translation of an American author. I have no idea what is the original (English) title of that story. But maybe you will like it (now it looks not a sci-fi at all!) Alexander ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janneke van de Stadt" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:31 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature > Dear SEELANGers, > > I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that > feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the > main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic > literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds to > the category. > > Many thanks, > Janneke > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From billings at ncnu.edu.tw Tue Mar 18 21:22:43 2008 From: billings at ncnu.edu.tw (Loren A. Billings) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 05:22:43 +0800 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: Someone sent this to me off-list. >And Christmas is after the New Year. Another thing I learned during a semester trip to then the USSR, from a US diplomat, was that Moscow and (then) Leningrad were the third- and fourth- largest cities in Europe, after London and Paris (resp.). That really caught my attention at the time. Someone correct me if I was misinformed. --Loren --==Mailed via NCNU E-Mail==-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sw-palmer at WIU.EDU Tue Mar 18 21:25:31 2008 From: sw-palmer at WIU.EDU (Scott W. Palmer) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 15:25:31 -0600 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <985c65300803181317l5fc75b48ibb9ecc443b6547ed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: More things you (probably) didn't know about Russia: Russia originated: the first multi-engine airplane the first flight over the North Pole the first fleet of strategic bombers the use of airplanes to promote diplomacy the idea of employing airplanes to conduct terrorist attacks. Devin Connolly wrote: > True, or that St. Basil's was originally painted white, and remained so for > quite a while before it became as colorful as it is today. > > Devin Connolly > > On Tue, Mar 18, 2008 at 1:12 PM, Loren A. Billings > wrote: > > >> I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Red Square isn't red, and >> never >> was. --Loren >> >> --==Mailed via NCNU E-Mail==-- >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bmdamare at UMICH.EDU Tue Mar 18 21:31:25 2008 From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU (bmdamare at UMICH.EDU) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 17:31:25 -0400 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alexander, The English title is "The Tunesmith" by Lloyd Biggle. It was a pretty influential sci-fi short story (Orson Scott Card cites it as one of his major influences, and his "Unaccompanied Sonata" is based on it), although I agree that it's looking less and less like fiction. - Brad Quoting Alex : > Dear Janneke, how about translations? > > I don't know if you could read cyrillic. Please, look at this page: > http://www.biglib.com.ua/book.php?ID=2066 > This is a translation of an American author. I have no idea what is > the original (English) title of that story. But maybe you will like it > (now it looks not a sci-fi at all!) > > Alexander > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janneke van de Stadt" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 8:31 PM > Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature > > >> Dear SEELANGers, >> >> I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that >> feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the >> main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic >> literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds to >> the category. >> >> Many thanks, >> Janneke >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dlcoop at UIUC.EDU Tue Mar 18 21:58:45 2008 From: dlcoop at UIUC.EDU (David L. Cooper) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:58:45 -0500 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alina Israeli wrote: > > 7. Russia covers 11 time zones. > These include: Paleolithic, Mesolithic, Neolithic, Copper, Bronze, Iron, ancient, middle, early modern, modern, and postmodern, ...all at the same time.... -- ------------------------ David L. Cooper Assistant Professor Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign Ph: 217-244-4666 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From G.Chew at RHUL.AC.UK Tue Mar 18 22:31:08 2008 From: G.Chew at RHUL.AC.UK (Chew G) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:31:08 -0000 Subject: Composers in Literature Message-ID: Besides those already mentioned, some, mainly Czech or Czech-related, that occur to me off the top of my head Alois Jirásek, F.L.Vek, and his Mozart v Praze [a play] Eduard Moerike, Mozart auf der Reise nach Prag [wonderful treatment of the nature of genius] Shaffer's Amadeus and Forman's movie based on it Vladimír Holan, Mozartiana [poems] Jaroslav Seifert, Mozart v Praze [poems] Many other, less impressive, examples of Mozart in Czech, mostly novels from Trivialliteratur (e.g. Zdenka Psutková, Ruze z Bertramky, pretty awful) Janacek's opera Osud is about a fictional composer Zivny, with a rather odd do-it-yourself libretto by a young amateur poet Capek-Chod's novel Humoreska is about the destructive power of music but really about a violinist rather than a composer >From the 1940s and 1950s there are very forgettable novels on a number of the minor Czech figures - Myslivecek (Il divino Boemo, I forget by whom), Zelenka (a truly dreadful one), Benda -- the vein continues with novels about Janacek, etc. There must be many similar things in German On a higher level, poems by Vrchlicky and others on composers such as Dvorak (Vrchlicky's poem on Dvorak is from 1904 after D's death) E.T.A. Hoffmann's Ritter Gluck (and, since Hoffmann was a composer as well as author, Offenbach's Tales of Hoffmann) That may do for now - but there are hundreds of such things. Geoff Prof. Geoffrey Chew Institute of Musicology, Masaryk University, Brno chewg at seznam.cz Department of Music, Royal Holloway, University of London g.chew at rhul.ac.uk ________________________________ From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Janneke van de Stadt Sent: Tue 18.3.08 18:31 To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature Dear SEELANGers, I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds to the category. Many thanks, Janneke ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: msg-29759-1291.txt URL: From a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Mar 18 22:38:34 2008 From: a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM (Alex) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 00:38:34 +0200 Subject: Question on Ukrainian v/w Message-ID: UNICOD (UTF-8) Dear Paul, Ukrainian "V" is the same as Russian. But some countrymen may mix "HV" with "F". I know that you can read cyrillic. I may tell you an anecdote which we've been told by professor Zilberman at the Physics department of the Kharkov's university.... Профессор Зильберман рассказывал, как сокрушался профессор Финкель с факультета филологии: "Девчата! Ну почему вы говорите "Хвинкель", когда вы так великолепно произносите... "ФОСТ"! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul B. Gallagher" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:36 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] Question on Ukrainian v/w > I was perusing this cursory description of Ukrainian phonology: > > and there doesn't seem to be any mention of [v]. > > Is this right? Ukrainian has no [v]~[f], only /ʋ/ = [ʋ]? E.g., вовк = > [ʋoʋk]([wowk] for those who cannot read IPA)? > > TIA. > > -- > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. > -- > Paul B. Gallagher > pbg translations, inc. > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" > http://pbg-translations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Tue Mar 18 22:57:23 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 18:57:23 -0400 Subject: Question on Ukrainian v/w In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alex wrote: > UNICOD (UTF-8) > > Dear Paul, Ukrainian "V" is the same as Russian. But some countrymen > may mix "HV" with "F". I know that you can read cyrillic. ... Well, so far you're the first respondent to say this. I've had several messages, both public and private, indicating that Ukrainian definitely does have a [w]. There seems to be some uncertainty about whether it occurs /everywhere/ or whether Ukrainian has [v] in some contexts. But I /am/ hearing for example that "сказаф" or even "сказав" for "сказаў" (please forgive my use of a Belarusian letter for clarity) is a Russian accent, not a natural Ukrainian pronunciation. I'm still hoping someone will clarify both the geographic and phonological contexts in which [v] occurs. I was already aware of the хв/ф confusion; that wasn't my question. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ad2262 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Mar 18 23:32:20 2008 From: ad2262 at COLUMBIA.EDU (anna dvigubski) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:32:20 -0400 Subject: Question on Ukrainian v/w In-Reply-To: <47E048D3.5050305@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: dear paul, as far as i know, ukrainian has W only at ends of words or before consonants, - in other words, in those places where russian V would become unvoiced F. so in your example VOVK, you would get both kinds: the first is regular V and the second - W because it is in an unvoiced position. by the way a person pronounces the final V (most often in masculine past tense verbs, such as "skazav") you can tell whether someone speaks ukrainian with a russian accent: a russian native speaker might say skazaF, while the correct ukrainian pronunciation requires skazaW. sincerely, anna Quoting "Paul B. Gallagher" : > Alex wrote: > >> UNICOD (UTF-8) >> >> Dear Paul, Ukrainian "V" is the same as Russian. But some countrymen >> may mix "HV" with "F". I know that you can read cyrillic. ... > > Well, so far you're the first respondent to say this. > > I've had several messages, both public and private, indicating that > Ukrainian definitely does have a [w]. There seems to be some > uncertainty about whether it occurs /everywhere/ or whether Ukrainian > has [v] in some contexts. But I /am/ hearing for example that "сказаф" > or even "сказав" for "сказаў" (please forgive my use of a Belarusian > letter for clarity) is a Russian accent, not a natural Ukrainian > pronunciation. > > I'm still hoping someone will clarify both the geographic and > phonological contexts in which [v] occurs. > > I was already aware of the хв/ф confusion; that wasn't my question. > > -- > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. > -- > Paul B. Gallagher > pbg translations, inc. > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" > http://pbg-translations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET Tue Mar 18 23:34:01 2008 From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:34:01 -0700 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <47E0334A.9050208@wiu.edu> Message-ID: At 02:25 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: >More things you (probably) didn't know about Russia: I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a middle-class suburb with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar jobs. It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant churches, and a Catholic church, I believe. Jules Levin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ad2262 at COLUMBIA.EDU Tue Mar 18 23:45:01 2008 From: ad2262 at COLUMBIA.EDU (anna dvigubski) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:45:01 -0400 Subject: Question on Ukrainian v/w In-Reply-To: <47E048D3.5050305@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: correction to my previous message: V sounds like W at ends of words and before UNVOICED consonants. anna Quoting "Paul B. Gallagher" : > Alex wrote: > >> UNICOD (UTF-8) >> >> Dear Paul, Ukrainian "V" is the same as Russian. But some countrymen >> may mix "HV" with "F". I know that you can read cyrillic. ... > > Well, so far you're the first respondent to say this. > > I've had several messages, both public and private, indicating that > Ukrainian definitely does have a [w]. There seems to be some > uncertainty about whether it occurs /everywhere/ or whether Ukrainian > has [v] in some contexts. But I /am/ hearing for example that "сказаф" > or even "сказав" for "сказаў" (please forgive my use of a Belarusian > letter for clarity) is a Russian accent, not a natural Ukrainian > pronunciation. > > I'm still hoping someone will clarify both the geographic and > phonological contexts in which [v] occurs. > > I was already aware of the хв/ф confusion; that wasn't my question. > > -- > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. > -- > Paul B. Gallagher > pbg translations, inc. > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" > http://pbg-translations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From awyman at UCHICAGO.EDU Wed Mar 19 02:48:38 2008 From: awyman at UCHICAGO.EDU (awyman) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:48:38 -0500 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: <0A786BF5-76DB-45CF-AFB7-072989CCBCDB@williams.edu> Message-ID: Dear Janneke, E.T.A. Hoffmann's "Kreisleriana"; "Lebensansichten des Katers Murr nebst fragmentarischer Biographie des Kapellmeisters Johannes Kreisler in zufaelligen Makulaturblaettern" (The Life and Opinions of Tomcat Murr with a fragmentary biography of the music director Johannes Kreisler in accidentally intermingled pages"; "Ritter Gluck" Also a narrative poem by a Belarusian poet Yakub Kolas, "Symon-Muzyka," about an illiterate folk musician/composer. Best, Alina -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Janneke van de Stadt Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 1:32 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature Dear SEELANGers, I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds to the category. Many thanks, Janneke ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emilka at MAC.COM Wed Mar 19 04:01:44 2008 From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 21:01:44 -0700 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Before 2004, when the Chita-Khabarovsk "Highway" was officially opened, you could not drive from Moscow to Vladivostok. And even now it's not paved the entire way. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwilson at SRAS.ORG Wed Mar 19 04:27:57 2008 From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:27:57 +0300 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <47E0334A.9050208@wiu.edu> Message-ID: Not to mention Russia gave us the periodic table of elements, the concept of classical (psychological) conditioning, the first satellite, first artificial heart, and the AK-47. More on this here: http://www.sras.org/science_in_russia_and_the_soviet_union Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott W. Palmer Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:26 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia More things you (probably) didn't know about Russia: Russia originated: the first multi-engine airplane the first flight over the North Pole the first fleet of strategic bombers the use of airplanes to promote diplomacy the idea of employing airplanes to conduct terrorist attacks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Mar 19 05:56:58 2008 From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 22:56:58 -0700 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <200803190428.m2J4S28v006762@alinga.com> Message-ID: At 09:27 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: >Not to mention Russia gave us the periodic table of elements, the concept of >classical (psychological) conditioning, the first satellite, first >artificial heart, and the AK-47. Not to mention the best WW II battle tank--the T-34. Jules Levin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From peitlovakatarina at TISCALI.IT Wed Mar 19 08:39:34 2008 From: peitlovakatarina at TISCALI.IT (Peitlova Katarina) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:39:34 +0100 Subject: ten things... Message-ID: Ekaterina II wasn't Russian... Katarina Peitlova-Tocci,PhDr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Wed Mar 19 08:53:49 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 08:53:49 -0000 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: The largest fresh water lake on the planet, with its own unique species of flora and fauna John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk Andy - this is becoming an impressive list. Will you summarise it for us? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:56 AM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia > At 09:27 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: >>Not to mention Russia gave us the periodic table of elements, the concept >>of >>classical (psychological) conditioning, the first satellite, first >>artificial heart, and the AK-47. > > Not to mention the best WW II battle tank--the T-34. > Jules Levin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From fcorley at NDIRECT.CO.UK Wed Mar 19 09:04:59 2008 From: fcorley at NDIRECT.CO.UK (Felix Corley) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:04:59 -0000 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a multi-ethnic and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and Catholic churches did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native subjects of the Empire were probably the people who mainly attended them. Felix Corley -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET Sent: 18 March 2008 23:34 To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia At 02:25 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: >More things you (probably) didn't know about Russia: I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a middle-class suburb with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar jobs. It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant churches, and a Catholic church, I believe. Jules Levin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From G.Chew at RHUL.AC.UK Wed Mar 19 09:28:07 2008 From: G.Chew at RHUL.AC.UK (Chew G) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:28:07 -0000 Subject: Composers in Literature Message-ID: Another couple of important ones that occur to me: Jean Paul [Richter], Hesperus [esp the episode with Stamitz and the garden concert] Stanislas Przybyszewski and his take on Chopin, both in the essays (e.g. "Chopin and Nietzsche") and in his "Totenmesse" and "De profundis" Which reminds me that Richard Dehmel refers to Przybyszewski and Chopin in his "Verwandlung der Venus" And also reminds me of Nietzsche, Der Fall Wagner etc (do things like that count?) The theme of the demon violinist/composer via Paganini and, earlier, Tartini must be widespread, though at the moment I can only think of pieces of music (Casella's Paganiniana and Dallapiccola's Tartiniana) And in a completely different vein, the satirical, comic German musical novels of the late 17th and early 18th centuries, which have composers wandering through the countryside in a fairly irresponsible and sometimes amusing way -- several by Johann Beer (1655-1700), such as Der abentheuerliche, wunderbare und unerhoerte Ritter Hopffensack (1678),and a couple by Wolfgang Caspar Printz (1641-1717),, such as his Phrynis Mitilenaeus oder Satyrischer Componist (1696). Printz wrote a "refutation" of his own novel and has some entertaining details about style, distinguishing (in descending order of sophistication) courtly style, bourgeois style, peasant style and "Siberian" style... (He lived in what is now Poland, and it's been argued, perhaps plausibly, that he draws on real Polish folk music of the period for his descriptions) Geoff Geoffrey Chew Institute of Musicology, Masaryk University, Brno chewg at seznam.cz Department of Music, Royal Holloway, University of London g.chew at rhul.ac.uk ________________________________ From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of awyman Sent: Wed 19.3.08 02:48 To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature Dear Janneke, E.T.A. Hoffmann's "Kreisleriana"; ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: msg-19596-1631.txt URL: From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Wed Mar 19 09:51:13 2008 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:51:13 +0100 Subject: Question on Ukrainian v/w Message-ID: I had always believed the situation was as described by Anna Dvigubski in her first (uncorrected) e-mail and can find sources that support that version. I have, however, found two sources (Jazyki narodov SSSR, I, p. 131, and a textbook for foreign learners published in Kiev in 1975) which give different accounts. The former states that [v] occurs (optionally) only before /i/ (він); the latter says in a footnote that [v] occurs before /и/ (виделка). John Dunn. -----Original Message----- From: "Paul B. Gallagher" To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:36:28 -0400 Subject: [SEELANGS] Question on Ukrainian v/w I was perusing this cursory description of Ukrainian phonology: and there doesn't seem to be any mention of [v]. Is this right? Ukrainian has no [v]~[f], only /ʋ/ = [ʋ]? E.g., вовк = [ʋoʋk]([wowk] for those who cannot read IPA)? TIA. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wkerr at KU.EDU.TR Wed Mar 19 10:49:34 2008 From: wkerr at KU.EDU.TR (WILLIAM KERR) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:49:34 +0200 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <002801c88920$287e8c40$0300a8c0@ANDREW> Message-ID: Seeing is believing .... The immensity of Siberia means that if you stand on the coast of the US state of Maine, you are closer to Moscow than your colleague standing on the eastern coast of Siberia. Within this immense landmass lies the world's deepest (1,620 metres) fresh water lake. Lake Baikal holds some 20% of the world's surface fresh water - if drained, it would take the water of all five US-Canadian Great Lakes (Ontario, Erie, Huron, Michigan, and Superior) to refill it. Over 300 rivers and streams flow into Baikal, but only one (the Angara) flows out from the lake. William Kerr Koc Universitesi Istanbul >>> Andrew Jameson 18.03.2008 19:47 >>> Dorogie SEELANGovtsy, I've been asked to write a not-too-serious lecture for the Annual General Meeting of a society concerned with Russian and Soviet studies. I'm calling it "Ten things you didn't know about Russia". Such things as: St Cyril didn't create the Cyrillic alphabet etc. etc. I'm wondering if you have any unusual or bizarre facts about Russia which you would like to share? Grateful for any ideas! Yours with best wishes Andrew Jameson Malvern UK ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mshrage at INDIANA.EDU Wed Mar 19 11:09:16 2008 From: mshrage at INDIANA.EDU (Shrager, Miriam) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:09:16 -0400 Subject: composers in Literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Also, Vechnaia muzyka by Iurii Nagibin (collection of novellas about several composers, including Bach and Kalman). Miriam Shrager Indiana University, Bloomington ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rhunter at MONROECC.EDU Wed Mar 19 13:14:12 2008 From: rhunter at MONROECC.EDU (Hunter, Robert (Psychology)) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:14:12 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: A strong ditto to the request to summarize the list. Robert Hunter rhunter at monroecc.edu -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of John Langran Sent: Wed 3/19/2008 4:53 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia The largest fresh water lake on the planet, with its own unique species of flora and fauna John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk Andy - this is becoming an impressive list. Will you summarise it for us? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:56 AM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia > At 09:27 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: >>Not to mention Russia gave us the periodic table of elements, the concept >>of >>classical (psychological) conditioning, the first satellite, first >>artificial heart, and the AK-47. > > Not to mention the best WW II battle tank--the T-34. > Jules Levin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sohail.abdullah at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 19 13:19:36 2008 From: sohail.abdullah at GMAIL.COM (Sohail Abdullah) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:19:36 +0500 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <347BE550FD7EA0438610994E17DDB6900293C7D2@MCC-B330.monroecc.edu> Message-ID: i find this conversation very very interesting i don't know if people consider it odd, but places mentioned in Crime and Punishment are still very much there in St. Petersburg. On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Hunter, Robert (Psychology) < rhunter at monroecc.edu> wrote: > A strong ditto to the request to summarize the list. > > Robert Hunter > rhunter at monroecc.edu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on > behalf of John Langran > Sent: Wed 3/19/2008 4:53 AM > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia > > The largest fresh water lake on the planet, with its own unique species of > flora and fauna > John Langran > www.ruslan.co.uk > > Andy - this is becoming an impressive list. Will you summarise it for us? > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:56 AM > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia > > > > At 09:27 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: > >>Not to mention Russia gave us the periodic table of elements, the > concept > >>of > >>classical (psychological) conditioning, the first satellite, first > >>artificial heart, and the AK-47. > > > > Not to mention the best WW II battle tank--the T-34. > > Jules Levin > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Best Regards Sohail Abdullah Sr. Creative Group Head Soho Square Pvt Ltd. 0321-5213015 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at ROGERS.COM Wed Mar 19 13:46:04 2008 From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (colkitto) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:46:04 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: > The largest fresh water lake on the planet, with its own unique species of > flora and fauna > John Langran > www.ruslan.co.uk furthermore, it throws accepted ideas of "biodiversity ' for a loop, in that it is located far from the tropics and is therefore important as an item of general knowledge and ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM Wed Mar 19 14:04:19 2008 From: n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM (Nina Shevchuk) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 07:04:19 -0700 Subject: Composers in Literature Message-ID: Also, Coetzee's "Disgrace" features a character who writes an opera. Best, NSM ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU Wed Mar 19 14:06:43 2008 From: russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU (Valentino, Russell) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:06:43 -0500 Subject: ten things... Message-ID: ... and if you believe the court gossip, and some historians, her husband wasn't the father of Paul -- a courtier by the name of Sergei Saltykov seems to be the likely candidate --, which would mean that the Romanov bloodline ended long before the dynasty did. ________________________________ From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Peitlova Katarina Sent: Wed 3/19/2008 3:39 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] ten things... Ekaterina II wasn't Russian... Katarina Peitlova-Tocci,PhDr. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Wed Mar 19 14:14:57 2008 From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:14:57 -0000 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <347BE550FD7EA0438610994E17DDB6900293C7D2@MCC-B330.monroecc.edu> Message-ID: Okay, okay!! I'll just wait a couple more days.. Andrew Jameson -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Hunter, Robert (Psychology) Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 1:14 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia A strong ditto to the request to summarize the list. Robert Hunter rhunter at monroecc.edu -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of John Langran Sent: Wed 3/19/2008 4:53 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia The largest fresh water lake on the planet, with its own unique species of flora and fauna John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk Andy - this is becoming an impressive list. Will you summarise it for us? ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:56 AM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia > At 09:27 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: >>Not to mention Russia gave us the periodic table of elements, the concept >>of >>classical (psychological) conditioning, the first satellite, first >>artificial heart, and the AK-47. > > Not to mention the best WW II battle tank--the T-34. > Jules Levin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU Wed Mar 19 14:28:14 2008 From: russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU (Valentino, Russell) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:28:14 -0500 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: There is also a well-researched list, with far more than the variety of trivia (interesting trivia, of course) collected here: Steven Marks, How Russia Shaped the Modern World: From Art to Antisemitism, Ballet to Bolshevism (and those are only the As and Bs). A couple of examples of particular interest from that source: Kropotkin's influence on the city green movement (through a variety of intermediaries); Tolstoy's influence on the U.S. civil rights movement (again through middle terms, like Ghandi); the particularly virulent form of antisemitism that came out of Russia at the end of the 19th beginning of the 20th cc. that produced the Black Hundreds and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, still easy to find in popular sources; the Tolstoy-Stanislavsky influence on the method acting of Brando, DeNiro, et al. The book's weak point is its short synopses of the works of various thinkers, which can sometimes be reductive, but it is especially good at tracing influences around the world, e.g., Bakunin in Japan, Dostoevsky in Egypt, Latin America, and so on. Kropotkin's doctrine of cooperationism, rather than competition, as the guiding principle of evolution (which Marks explores) ties in with another, oft-neglected but excellent study: Daniel P. Todes, Darwin Without Malthus: the Struggle for Existence in Evolutionary Thought, which advances the thesis that Russian biologists, observing the ecosystems of the steppe, created the discipline of ecology at the end of the 19th century. ________________________________ From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Sohail Abdullah Sent: Wed 3/19/2008 8:19 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia i find this conversation very very interesting i don't know if people consider it odd, but places mentioned in Crime and Punishment are still very much there in St. Petersburg. On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 6:14 PM, Hunter, Robert (Psychology) < rhunter at monroecc.edu> wrote: > A strong ditto to the request to summarize the list. > > Robert Hunter > rhunter at monroecc.edu > > > -----Original Message----- > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on > behalf of John Langran > Sent: Wed 3/19/2008 4:53 AM > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia > > The largest fresh water lake on the planet, with its own unique species of > flora and fauna > John Langran > www.ruslan.co.uk > > Andy - this is becoming an impressive list. Will you summarise it for us? > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:56 AM > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia > > > > At 09:27 PM 3/18/2008, you wrote: > >>Not to mention Russia gave us the periodic table of elements, the > concept > >>of > >>classical (psychological) conditioning, the first satellite, first > >>artificial heart, and the AK-47. > > > > Not to mention the best WW II battle tank--the T-34. > > Jules Levin > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- Best Regards Sohail Abdullah Sr. Creative Group Head Soho Square Pvt Ltd. 0321-5213015 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK Wed Mar 19 14:39:53 2008 From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:39:53 +0000 Subject: ,[SEELANGS] Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: <0A786BF5-76DB-45CF-AFB7-072989CCBCDB@williams.edu> Message-ID: Dear Janneke -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK Wed Mar 19 14:44:03 2008 From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:44:03 +0000 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: <0A786BF5-76DB-45CF-AFB7-072989CCBCDB@williams.edu> Message-ID: Dear Janneke, In addition to the mentioned earlier titles (Poslednii kvartert Betkhovena; Nagibin's work on Rakhmanov and Tchaikovsky), Berberova's Chaikovsky, etc.) please add to your list Vladimir Odoevsky's story "Sebastian Bakh"; Pasternak's long poem "1905 god" and his autobiographical essay "Okhrannaia gramota" that describe Pasternak's encounters with Scriabin; and Osip Mandelshtam's essay "Pushkin i Skriabin". All best, Alexandra Smith -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK Wed Mar 19 14:48:18 2008 From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:48:18 +0000 Subject: a few more items on composers in Russian literature Message-ID: Dear Janneke, In addition to the mentioned earlier titles (Poslednii kvartert Betkhovena; Nagibin's work on Rakhmaninov and Tchaikovsky), Berberova's Chaikovsky, etc.) please add to your list Vladimir Odoevsky's story "Sebastian Bakh"; Pasternak's long poem "1905 god" and his autobiographical essay "Okhrannaia gramota" that describe Pasternak's encounters with Scriabin; and Osip Mandelshtam's essay "Pushkin i Skriabin". All best, Alexandra ====================== Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London) Lecturer in Russian School of European Languages and Cultures The University of Edinburgh David Hume Tower George Square Edinburgh EX8 9JX UK tel. +44-(0)131-6511381 fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604 e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU Wed Mar 19 15:16:35 2008 From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:16:35 -0400 Subject: ten things... In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > > Ekaterina II wasn't Russian... > > Katarina Peitlova-Tocci,PhDr. Well NO ONE at the head of any European monarchy was purely anything, since rather than marry minor local nobility or (pass the smelling salts!!) commoners, one often married foreign royalty. Apparently Victoria was particularly successful at placing her descendants. In 1914, those crowned heads and their little war were all related. I believe Nicholas II and Kaiser Wilhelm II were "Cousin Nicky" and "Cousin Willy" to the King of England. Even the current consort, Philip of Edinburgh, originally from Greece, is a great-great-grandson of Victoria ... But I guess Ekaterina/Sophie von Anhalt-Zerbst was probably mostly "German" when she married, and not one bit Russian, so Katarina is right too. And it makes for a good one-liner. -FR Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor Chair, Russian and Russian Studies Coordinator, German and Russian Wheaton College Norton, Massachusetts 02766 Office: (508) 285-3696 FAX: (508) 286-3640 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU Wed Mar 19 15:50:11 2008 From: John.Pendergast at USMA.EDU (Pendergast, J. Mr DFL) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:50:11 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: A<200803190428.m2J4S28v006762@alinga.com> Message-ID: Along this line, Stanislavsky's "method acting" technique influenced Marlon Brando and a host of other actors and actresses of that and later generations. -John Pendergast Assistant Professor of Russian United States Military Academy 745 Brewerton Road West Point, NY 10996 845-938-0310 -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Josh Wilson Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:28 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia Not to mention Russia gave us the periodic table of elements, the concept of classical (psychological) conditioning, the first satellite, first artificial heart, and the AK-47. More on this here: http://www.sras.org/science_in_russia_and_the_soviet_union Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Scott W. Palmer Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 12:26 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia More things you (probably) didn't know about Russia: Russia originated: the first multi-engine airplane the first flight over the North Pole the first fleet of strategic bombers the use of airplanes to promote diplomacy the idea of employing airplanes to conduct terrorist attacks. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM Wed Mar 19 18:36:13 2008 From: Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:36:13 +0100 Subject: Composers in Literature Message-ID: It is curious to know that there were at least three authors who actually composed music: 1. Griboyedov who was a gifted pianist and wrote for piano. One of his compostions - a waltz - has survived. 2. Tolstoy also wrote for piano. I believe there even is a recording of him playing one of his own compositions. 3. Leonid Paternak. But there may be many more. Frans Suasso, Naatden the Netherlands ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janneke van de Stadt" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:31 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature > Dear SEELANGers, > > I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that feature > composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the main > characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic literature, please > feel free to include any title that corresponds to the category. > > Many thanks, > Janneke > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET Wed Mar 19 18:38:29 2008 From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:38:29 -0700 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <20080319090819.KQSO219.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@cor ley7nanvzr0> Message-ID: At 02:04 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote: >The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a multi-ethnic >and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and Catholic churches >did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native subjects of the Empire >were probably the people who mainly attended them. > >Felix Corley No doubt... Maybe I should have said "multi-national". But wasn't 19th Cent. Russia called in the west "prisonhouse of nations"? Jules Levin >-----Original Message----- > >I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, >was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a >middle-class suburb >with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar jobs. >It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant churches, >and >a Catholic church, I believe. > >Jules Levin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From xmas at UKR.NET Wed Mar 19 09:12:10 2008 From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 11:12:10 +0200 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: Borsht is actually not a Russian dish but a Ukrainian one.   The name Great Russia comes from the Byzantines who called the northern and southern part of the lands of Rus’ as: њ±єБ¬ ЎЙГЇ± (Makra Rosia - Great Rus’) and њ№єБ¬ ЎЙГЇ± (Mikra Rosia - Minor Rus’ or Little Rus’), respectively, following the pattern used for Greece -- where Little Greece was the centre and Great Greece were its colonies. The very name Russia applied to Moscow Princedom was first introduced by Peter the Great (Butcher) who sent money to foreign ambassadors so that they called this country in their official papers Russia, not in any other way. With best regards, Maria ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ptydepe at UMICH.EDU Wed Mar 19 20:29:21 2008 From: ptydepe at UMICH.EDU (Jindrich Toman) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:29:21 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Could we still return to Russia's priority on multi-engine planes? Is there a source? (And apologies if it was meant as a joke--I read it very quickly.) Thanks, Jindrich Toman On 3/19/08 2:38 PM, "ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET" wrote: > At 02:04 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote: >> The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a multi-ethnic >> and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and Catholic churches >> did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native subjects of the Empire >> were probably the people who mainly attended them. >> >> Felix Corley > > No doubt... > Maybe I should have said "multi-national". But wasn't 19th Cent. > Russia called > in the west "prisonhouse of nations"? > Jules Levin > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> >> I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, >> was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a >> middle-class suburb >> with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar jobs. >> It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant churches, >> and >> a Catholic church, I believe. >> >> Jules Levin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ozaslav at ALUMNI.UPENN.EDU Wed Mar 19 20:31:31 2008 From: ozaslav at ALUMNI.UPENN.EDU (Olga Zaslavsky) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:31:31 +0000 Subject: Communal Apartments: New Online Resource In-Reply-To: <6.2.1.2.2.20080318162624.108a1fe0@postoffice9.mail.cornell.edu> Message-ID: Hello, Perhaps, I've missed it, but, on that site, shouldn't there also be a reference to Ilya Kabakov's artistic rendition of kommunalka as an object of conceptual drawings, paintings, installations, etc.? Olga Zaslavsky ( a long time ago resident of one of those) and a translator of a few entries from German for the Kabakov catalogue in late 80's. > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 16:58:23 -0400 > From: sp27 at CORNELL.EDU > Subject: [SEELANGS] Communal Apartments: New Online Resource > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > > Dear SEELANGERs, > > Please note a new major resource created by the Colgate-Cornell team > (joined now by Nancy Ries of Colgate and Ilya Utekin of European University > in St. Petersburg). > > http://kommunalka.colgate.edu > > Communal Living in Russia: A Virtual Museum of Soviet Everyday Life > > The site took almost two years to produce, even though it was based on > years of earlier research by Ilya Utekhin. > > You'll see three hours of video interviews filmed in St. Petersburg > kommunalkas, 350 photographs, dozens of essays, and other materials. > > The site is bilingual: all materials, including the videos, are available > in Russian and English. Select a language when you enter and change it at > any time. Bilingual displays of all texts are also available. > > Don't miss the "Your Tours" section where you can compile series of > exhibits for your students, to be used as assigments or for in-class > demonstrations. You can write your own introduction and conclusion to your > tours, and even annotate the exhibits. Or you can ask the students to > create their own compilations and share them with fellow students or submit > them as homework. > > Those of you who may have used "Michael and Svetlana," "Interviews from > Russia," "Children from Russia," or "Life on the Atomic River" will > recognize the documentary style of the kommunalka videos: they are expertly > filmed by the award-winning filmmaker Slawomir Grunberg and, like those > films, this new Web site brings exciting questions to the classroom: > > Why does Iraida Yakovlevna say "Mne otdel'naya kvartira ne nuzhna!" > > What does Alla Ignat'evna mean when she says "V novostrojkakh polnaya > bezdukhovnost'." > > Did the really live "kak odna bol'shaya sem'ya"? > > Why is the toilet seat hanging in the kitchen, next to a toothbrush? > > Why does the young man refuse to fix the leaking faucet? > > What would you do if you had a similar huge hole in the kitchen ceiling? > > And so on... It's an interesting world, one where much can be learned. The > site went up only a week or so ago, but I see that it is already discussed > in blogs. One posting that I found through Google says "After viewing the > photo galleries or watching the video tours, you don't need any further > information about Soviet mentality and Soviet way of life anymore. This > virtual museum shows and says everything." (from > http://www.urlfan.com/local/soviet_lifestyle/72701135.html ) > > The project was supported by a grant from the National Ednowment of the > Humanities. The names of the principal authors and the many friends and > colleagues who have helped are shown in the About page. > > Please write off-list with any questions. We would be gratefull for > opinions and suggestions. > > Slava Paperno > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From douglas at NYU.EDU Wed Mar 19 20:35:44 2008 From: douglas at NYU.EDU (Charlotte Douglas) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:35:44 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Was it referring to Igor Sikorskii's plane "The Grand"? >Could we still return to Russia's priority on multi-engine planes? Is there >a source? (And apologies if it was meant as a joke--I read it very quickly.) >Thanks, Jindrich Toman > > >On 3/19/08 2:38 PM, "ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET" wrote: > >> At 02:04 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote: >>> The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a >>>multi-ethnic >>> and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and Catholic churches >>> did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native subjects of the Empire >>> were probably the people who mainly attended them. >>> >>> Felix Corley >> >> No doubt... >> Maybe I should have said "multi-national". But wasn't 19th Cent. >> Russia called >> in the west "prisonhouse of nations"? >> Jules Levin >> >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, >>> was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a >>> middle-class suburb >>> with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar jobs. >>> It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant churches, >>> and >>> a Catholic church, I believe. >>> >>> Jules Levin >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sw-palmer at WIU.EDU Wed Mar 19 20:39:07 2008 From: sw-palmer at WIU.EDU (Scott W. Palmer) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:39:07 -0600 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: See the Wikipedia article for "Igor Sikorsky" Alternatively, I discuss the plane (known alternatively as "The Big Baltic" or "Le Grande" before it was finally re-named the "Russian Warrior") on pp. 56-58 of my book _Dictatorship of the Air_ Jindrich Toman wrote: > Could we still return to Russia's priority on multi-engine planes? Is there > a source? (And apologies if it was meant as a joke--I read it very quickly.) > Thanks, Jindrich Toman > > > On 3/19/08 2:38 PM, "ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET" wrote: > > >> At 02:04 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote: >> >>> The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a multi-ethnic >>> and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and Catholic churches >>> did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native subjects of the Empire >>> were probably the people who mainly attended them. >>> >>> Felix Corley >>> >> No doubt... >> Maybe I should have said "multi-national". But wasn't 19th Cent. >> Russia called >> in the west "prisonhouse of nations"? >> Jules Levin >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> >>> I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, >>> was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a >>> middle-class suburb >>> with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar jobs. >>> It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant churches, >>> and >>> a Catholic church, I believe. >>> >>> Jules Levin >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ptydepe at UMICH.EDU Wed Mar 19 20:43:16 2008 From: ptydepe at UMICH.EDU (Jindrich Toman) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:43:16 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <47E179EB.80007@wiu.edu> Message-ID: Yes, it's 1915--great, thanks. JT On 3/19/08 4:39 PM, "Scott W. Palmer" wrote: > See the Wikipedia article for "Igor Sikorsky" > > Alternatively, I discuss the plane (known alternatively as "The Big > Baltic" or "Le Grande" before it was finally re-named the "Russian > Warrior") on pp. 56-58 of my book _Dictatorship of the Air_ > > > > Jindrich Toman wrote: >> Could we still return to Russia's priority on multi-engine planes? Is there >> a source? (And apologies if it was meant as a joke--I read it very quickly.) >> Thanks, Jindrich Toman >> >> >> On 3/19/08 2:38 PM, "ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET" wrote: >> >> >>> At 02:04 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote: >>> >>>> The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a >>>> multi-ethnic >>>> and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and Catholic churches >>>> did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native subjects of the Empire >>>> were probably the people who mainly attended them. >>>> >>>> Felix Corley >>>> >>> No doubt... >>> Maybe I should have said "multi-national". But wasn't 19th Cent. >>> Russia called >>> in the west "prisonhouse of nations"? >>> Jules Levin >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> >>>> I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, >>>> was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a >>>> middle-class suburb >>>> with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar jobs. >>>> It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant churches, >>>> and >>>> a Catholic church, I believe. >>>> >>>> Jules Levin >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU Wed Mar 19 20:45:49 2008 From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:45:49 -0400 Subject: royal marriages (was: [SEELANGS] ten things..) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Francoise Rosset wrote: > > Apparently Victoria was particularly successful at placing her > descendants. And then there was the practice of the Habsburgs, which led to the poetic aphorism (attributed variously to Maximilian I, the Holy Roman Emperor, and to Mathias Corvinus, King of Hungary) "Bella gerant alii, tu, felix Austria, nube/ Nam quae Mars aliis, dat tibi regna Venus" (Let others wage war; you, O happy Austria, marry; for those kingdoms that Mars gives to others, Venus gives to thee). The first line is more often quoted than the whole distich.// Bob Rothstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From harlo at mindspring.com Wed Mar 19 20:48:30 2008 From: harlo at mindspring.com (harlo at mindspring.com) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 16:48:30 -0400 Subject: Composers in Literature Message-ID: Lermontov also supposedly wrote music, including that for the famous "folk song" Borodino set to his verses. Harlow Robinson Northeastern U -----Original Message----- >From: Frans Suasso >Sent: Mar 19, 2008 2:36 PM >To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu >Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature > >It is curious to know that there were at least three authors who actually >composed music: > >1. Griboyedov who was a gifted pianist and wrote for piano. One of his >compostions - a waltz - has survived. > >2. Tolstoy also wrote for piano. I believe there even is a recording of him >playing one of his own compositions. > >3. Leonid Paternak. > >But there may be many more. > >Frans Suasso, Naatden the Netherlands > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Janneke van de Stadt" >To: >Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:31 PM >Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature > > >> Dear SEELANGers, >> >> I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that feature >> composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the main >> characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic literature, please >> feel free to include any title that corresponds to the category. >> >> Many thanks, >> Janneke >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sw-palmer at WIU.EDU Wed Mar 19 20:54:33 2008 From: sw-palmer at WIU.EDU (Scott W. Palmer) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:54:33 -0600 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The plane debuted (and was destroyed) in 1913. Jindrich Toman wrote: > Yes, it's 1915--great, thanks. JT > > > On 3/19/08 4:39 PM, "Scott W. Palmer" wrote: > > >> See the Wikipedia article for "Igor Sikorsky" >> >> Alternatively, I discuss the plane (known alternatively as "The Big >> Baltic" or "Le Grande" before it was finally re-named the "Russian >> Warrior") on pp. 56-58 of my book _Dictatorship of the Air_ >> >> >> >> Jindrich Toman wrote: >> >>> Could we still return to Russia's priority on multi-engine planes? Is there >>> a source? (And apologies if it was meant as a joke--I read it very quickly.) >>> Thanks, Jindrich Toman >>> >>> >>> On 3/19/08 2:38 PM, "ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET" wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> At 02:04 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a >>>>> multi-ethnic >>>>> and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and Catholic churches >>>>> did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native subjects of the Empire >>>>> were probably the people who mainly attended them. >>>>> >>>>> Felix Corley >>>>> >>>>> >>>> No doubt... >>>> Maybe I should have said "multi-national". But wasn't 19th Cent. >>>> Russia called >>>> in the west "prisonhouse of nations"? >>>> Jules Levin >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> >>>>> I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, >>>>> was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a >>>>> middle-class suburb >>>>> with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar jobs. >>>>> It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant churches, >>>>> and >>>>> a Catholic church, I believe. >>>>> >>>>> Jules Levin >>>>> >>>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >>>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pultz at USC.EDU Wed Mar 19 21:06:36 2008 From: pultz at USC.EDU (Allison Pultz) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:06:36 -0700 Subject: image of the foreigner Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I am searching for scholarship on the image of the foreigner (the Englishman, the Frenchman, the German, for example) in Russian literature. Do you have any references to share? Many thanks, Allison Pultz Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Southern California pultz at usc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Wed Mar 19 21:21:45 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:21:45 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: For the general public: Russia is not the same thing as the former Soviet Union; it was only part of the FSU. Until the 20th century, the bulk of Russia's land area was inhabited by people who couldn't speak Russian (though of course Russians were far more numerous because the vast outlying areas were sparsely populated). -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Wed Mar 19 21:23:27 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:23:27 -0000 Subject: image of the foreigner Message-ID: My favourite is the initial meeting with the mag in Master i Margerita: Правый глаз черный, левый почему-то зеленый. Брови черные, но одна выше другой. Словом - иностранец. Pravy glas chyorny, levy pochemu-to zelyony. Brovi chyorniye, no odna vyshe drugoy. Slovom - inostranets. and so on. See chapter 1, the first few pages. I use this in defence of the "tipichny inostranets" in my Ruslan course, when people say that this is not a valid concept. John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison Pultz" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:06 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner > Dear Colleagues, > > I am searching for scholarship on the image of the foreigner (the > Englishman, the Frenchman, the German, for example) in Russian literature. > > Do you have any references to share? > > Many thanks, > > Allison Pultz > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Southern California > pultz at usc.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU Wed Mar 19 21:24:46 2008 From: kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU (Klawa Thresher) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:24:46 -0400 Subject: Foreign Language Difficulty Scale In-Reply-To: A Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I wanted to check the Defense Department's language difficulty scale (to compare Spanish, French, German, Russian and Chinese), and have tried googling it, but when I have tried to go to various links from a couple of sites, they have been unavailable. Does someone have more ready access to this information. Thank you, Klawa Thresher ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Wed Mar 19 21:25:13 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:25:13 -0000 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: Yes, back to earth, and why not add a statistic about Soviet losses in ww2. John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul B. Gallagher" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia > For the general public: > > Russia is not the same thing as the former Soviet Union; it was only > part of the FSU. > > Until the 20th century, the bulk of Russia's land area was inhabited by > people who couldn't speak Russian (though of course Russians were far > more numerous because the vast outlying areas were sparsely populated). > > -- > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. > -- > Paul B. Gallagher > pbg translations, inc. > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" > http://pbg-translations.com > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU Wed Mar 19 21:31:40 2008 From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:31:40 -0400 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: <47E17B7D.10708@slavic.umass.edu> Message-ID: harlo at mindspring.com wrote: > Lermontov also supposedly wrote music, including that for the famous > "folk song" Borodino set to his verses. > It has been claimed that Lermontov wrote music for his "Kazach'ia kolybel'naia pesnia" (Spi, mladenets moi prekrasnyi...), but he doesn't seem to have been among the 23 composers who set "Borodino" to music. In total more than a thousand composers have written music for more than 240 of his poems, with the record (around 100 settings) held by "Na severe dikom stoit odinoko," his translation of Heine's "Ein Fichtenbaum steht einsam..." Bob Rothstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pr52 at CORNELL.EDU Wed Mar 19 21:32:15 2008 From: pr52 at CORNELL.EDU (Philip Robinson) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:32:15 -0400 Subject: Foreign Language Difficulty Scale In-Reply-To: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0ADF9002@exchange.randolph college.edu> Message-ID: I was just there recently and, as I recall, Spanish, French, and German were Level I (easiest for Anglophones), Russian was Level II (medium), and Mandarin and several other East Asian languages and Arabic were Level III (most difficult). Phil Robinson Cornell University At 05:24 PM 3/19/2008, Klawa Thresher wrote: >Dear Colleagues, > >I wanted to check the Defense Department's language difficulty scale (to >compare Spanish, French, German, Russian and Chinese), and have tried >googling it, but when I have tried to go to various links from a couple >of sites, they have been unavailable. Does someone have more ready >access to this information. > >Thank you, >Klawa Thresher > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From h.p.houtzagers at RUG.NL Wed Mar 19 21:40:31 2008 From: h.p.houtzagers at RUG.NL (Peter Houtzagers) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:40:31 +0100 Subject: Foreign Language Difficulty Scale In-Reply-To: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0ADF9002@exchange.randolphcollege.edu> Message-ID: Try http://www.nvtc.gov/lotw/months/november/learningExpectations.html and http://www.sras.org/russian_program_advocacy Peter Houtzagers Klawa Thresher wrote: >Dear Colleagues, > >I wanted to check the Defense Department's language difficulty scale (to >compare Spanish, French, German, Russian and Chinese), and have tried >googling it, but when I have tried to go to various links from a couple >of sites, they have been unavailable. Does someone have more ready >access to this information. > >Thank you, >Klawa Thresher > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bmdamare at UMICH.EDU Wed Mar 19 21:40:08 2008 From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU (bmdamare at UMICH.EDU) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:40:08 -0400 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: If we're expanding on that list, too, it'd be important to include Mikhail Kuzmin, who wrote quite a bit of music, including song settings for his own poems. By Pasternak I assume you meant Boris? Christopher Barnes had an article analyzing one of his (very Scriabinesque) preludes in the journal Tempo. - Brad Damare' Dept. of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Michigan Quoting Frans Suasso : > It is curious to know that there were at least three authors who > actually composed music: > > 1. Griboyedov who was a gifted pianist and wrote for piano. One of > his compostions - a waltz - has survived. > > 2. Tolstoy also wrote for piano. I believe there even is a recording > of him playing one of his own compositions. > > 3. Leonid Paternak. > > But there may be many more. > > Frans Suasso, Naatden the Netherlands > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janneke van de Stadt" > > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:31 PM > Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature > > >> Dear SEELANGers, >> >> I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that >> feature composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the >> main characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic >> literature, please feel free to include any title that corresponds >> to the category. >> >> Many thanks, >> Janneke >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From siskron at SFSU.EDU Wed Mar 19 21:43:35 2008 From: siskron at SFSU.EDU (siskron at SFSU.EDU) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:43:35 -0700 Subject: image of the foreigner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bulgakov's Master and Margarita... Tolstoy's War and Peace... Quoting Allison Pultz : > Dear Colleagues, > > I am searching for scholarship on the image of the foreigner (the > Englishman, the Frenchman, the German, for example) in Russian > literature. > > Do you have any references to share? > > Many thanks, > > Allison Pultz > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Southern California > pultz at usc.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brooksjef at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 19 21:46:56 2008 From: brooksjef at GMAIL.COM (jeff brooks) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:46:56 -0400 Subject: image of the foreigner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wrote a bit about the image of foreigners in pop fiction in When Russia Learned to Read. Cheers, Jeff Brooks On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Allison Pultz wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I am searching for scholarship on the image of the foreigner (the > Englishman, the Frenchman, the German, for example) in Russian literature. > > Do you have any references to share? > > Many thanks, > > Allison Pultz > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Southern California > pultz at usc.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From siskron at SFSU.EDU Wed Mar 19 21:49:50 2008 From: siskron at SFSU.EDU (siskron at SFSU.EDU) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:49:50 -0700 Subject: Foreign Language Difficulty Scale In-Reply-To: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0ADF9002@exchange.randolphcollege.edu> Message-ID: Try Defense Language Institute http://www.dliflc.edu/. KS Quoting Klawa Thresher : > Dear Colleagues, > > I wanted to check the Defense Department's language difficulty scale (to > compare Spanish, French, German, Russian and Chinese), and have tried > googling it, but when I have tried to go to various links from a couple > of sites, they have been unavailable. Does someone have more ready > access to this information. > > Thank you, > Klawa Thresher > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From votruba+ at PITT.EDU Wed Mar 19 21:49:52 2008 From: votruba+ at PITT.EDU (Martin Votruba) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:49:52 -0400 Subject: Foreign Language Difficulty Scale In-Reply-To: <47E1884F.2050602@rug.nl> Message-ID: The DLI came up with this in the 1970s (Bulgarian in group 2, other Slavic langauges in 3): GROUP I - Afrikaans, Danish, Dutch, French, Haitian Creole, Italian, Norwegian, Portuguese, Romanian, Spanish, Swahili, Swedish GROUP II - Bulgarian, Dari, Farsi (Persian), German, (Modern) Greek, Hindi-Urdu, Indonesian, Malay GROUP III - Amharic, Bengali, Burmese, Czech, Finnish, (Modern) Hebrew, Hungarian, Khmer (Cambodian), Lao, Nepali, Pilipino (Tagalog), Polish, Russian, Serbo-Croatian, Sinhala, Thai, Tamil, Turkish, Vietnamese GROUP IV - Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean Martin votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From danewton at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Wed Mar 19 22:01:54 2008 From: danewton at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Dan Newton) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 15:01:54 -0700 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't think anybody has mentioned Paustovsky's story "Staryi povar." ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU Wed Mar 19 22:09:24 2008 From: kthresher at RANDOLPHCOLLEGE.EDU (Klawa Thresher) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:09:24 -0400 Subject: [BULK] Re: [SEELANGS] Foreign Language Difficulty Scale In-Reply-To: A<6347046.1205948992@votruba12.fdl.pitt.edu> Message-ID: Thank you! -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Martin Votruba Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:50 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [BULK] Re: [SEELANGS] Foreign Language Difficulty Scale Importance: Low The DLI came up with this in the 1970s (Bulgarian in group 2, other Slavic langauges in 3): GROUP I - Afrikaans, Danish, Dutch, French, Haitian Creole, Italian, Norwegian, Portuguese, Romanian, Spanish, Swahili, Swedish GROUP II - Bulgarian, Dari, Farsi (Persian), German, (Modern) Greek, Hindi-Urdu, Indonesian, Malay GROUP III - Amharic, Bengali, Burmese, Czech, Finnish, (Modern) Hebrew, Hungarian, Khmer (Cambodian), Lao, Nepali, Pilipino (Tagalog), Polish, Russian, Serbo-Croatian, Sinhala, Thai, Tamil, Turkish, Vietnamese GROUP IV - Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Korean Martin votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Wed Mar 19 22:12:17 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:12:17 -0400 Subject: image of the foreigner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Germans in Queen of Spades, Turgenev's Asja, Oblomov. There must be more Germans out there, can't think of any others though. Nakanune has a Bulgarian. Povesti Belkina has an Englishwoman, Dubrovskij has a French. Chekhov has Doch' Albiona. Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU Wed Mar 19 22:37:45 2008 From: russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU (Valentino, Russell) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:37:45 -0500 Subject: image of the foreigner Message-ID: There is also some coverage of this in Richard Stites's Russian Popular Culture (on Circus, as I recall). I actually don't know of a book-length treatment of this topic and would like to hear about it if others do. ________________________________ From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of jeff brooks Sent: Wed 3/19/2008 4:46 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner I wrote a bit about the image of foreigners in pop fiction in When Russia Learned to Read. Cheers, Jeff Brooks On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Allison Pultz wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I am searching for scholarship on the image of the foreigner (the > Englishman, the Frenchman, the German, for example) in Russian literature. > > Do you have any references to share? > > Many thanks, > > Allison Pultz > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Southern California > pultz at usc.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mglevine at EMAIL.UNC.EDU Wed Mar 19 22:41:14 2008 From: mglevine at EMAIL.UNC.EDU (Madeline Levine) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:41:14 -0500 Subject: Paul Debreczeny: In memoriam Message-ID: I write to share the sad news that Paul Debreczeny, Alumni Distinguished Professor Emeritus of Russian and Comparative Literature at UNC-Chapel Hill, died on March 18th. Paul was one of the founders of the UNC-CH Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures, served as department chair in the 1970s, and remained as devoted in retirement to the Department's development as he had been during his years of active service. He was also the founding Director of the UNC-Duke Title VI Center for Slavic, Eurasian, and East European Studies. Paul was an internationally recognized scholar, known especially for his studies of Pushkin: THE OTHER PUSHKIN: A STUDY OF ALEXANDER PUSHKIN'S PROSE FICTION (1983), SOCIAL FUNCTIONS OF LITERATURE: ALEXANDER PUSHKIN AND RUSSIAN CULTURE (1997),and his translations of Pushkin's COLLECTED PROSE (1983, rev. 1999). After Paul retired, he turned to a study of the life and paintings of Levitan, completing a book-length biography of the painter shortly before his death. His many friends and colleagues will miss his wide-ranging critical intelligence and gentle, engaged presence. Madeline G. Levine University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sglebov at SMITH.EDU Wed Mar 19 22:52:16 2008 From: sglebov at SMITH.EDU (Sergey Glebov) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:52:16 -0400 Subject: SEELANGS Digest - 19 Mar 2008 - Special issue (#2008-111) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I wonder, though, why would Shtol'ts be considered a foreigner? J Sergey Glebov Alina Israeli wrote: Germans in Queen of Spades, Turgenev's Asja, Oblomov. There must be more Germans out there, can't think of any others though. Nakanune has a Bulgarian. Povesti Belkina has an Englishwoman, Dubrovskij has a French. Chekhov has Doch' Albiona. Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From david.riesenberg at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 20 02:45:28 2008 From: david.riesenberg at GMAIL.COM (david riesenberg) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:45:28 -0700 Subject: Marketing a Study Abroad Program Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, I recently completed a wonderful study abroad experience with a Russian language program based in the Golden Ring city of Yaroslavl. The faculty there is brilliant and, as many of you know, 1000 year old Yaroslavl is one of the most lovely, most enchanting locations in the RF. Featured boldly on the 1000 ruble note, Yaroslavl combines the beauty of the Volga with world-famous architecture and the richest, oldest theatrical tradition in Russia - established by Fyodor Volkov in 1750. Today, Yaroslavl is the home of Oscar-winner Alexander Petrov's animation studio and boasts a stunning artistic and intellectual life. It is the ideal place to experience and study the Russian language and culture (certainly close enough to Moscow and Saint Petersburg, but not *too* close...!) The language program currently caters to many students from Japan and Southeast Asia, but despite many years of teaching Russian as a foreign language and administering the TORFL tests with a high pass rate, it has been a struggle for the teachers and staff to market this program to students in the USA and Europe. As many of you are regularly involved in this sort of activity, I would like to ask you: what sort of tools and resources are availible for Russian educators in this position? What have you seen work in the past? How can this dedicated team best market their considerable talents within the Western university community and alert students to an excellent study abroad opportunity? Thank you SEELANGers! David ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM Fri Mar 21 23:40:36 2008 From: franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 00:40:36 +0100 Subject: Composers in Literature Message-ID: Склероз проклятый. Of course I meant Boris Pasternak. Frans Suasso ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:40 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature > If we're expanding on that list, too, it'd be important to include Mikhail > Kuzmin, who wrote quite a bit of music, including song settings for his > own poems. > > By Pasternak I assume you meant Boris? Christopher Barnes had an article > analyzing one of his (very Scriabinesque) preludes in the journal Tempo. > > - Brad Damare' > Dept. of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Michigan > > > Quoting Frans Suasso : > >> It is curious to know that there were at least three authors who actually >> composed music: >> >> 1. Griboyedov who was a gifted pianist and wrote for piano. One of his >> compostions - a waltz - has survived. >> >> 2. Tolstoy also wrote for piano. I believe there even is a recording of >> him playing one of his own compositions. >> >> 3. Leonid Paternak. >> >> But there may be many more. >> >> Frans Suasso, Naatden the Netherlands >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janneke van de Stadt" >> >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 7:31 PM >> Subject: [SEELANGS] Composers in Literature >> >> >>> Dear SEELANGers, >>> >>> I am in the process of creating a list of literary works that feature >>> composers (not simply musicians), real or fictional, as the main >>> characters. Although I am mostly interested in Slavic literature, >>> please feel free to include any title that corresponds to the category. >>> >>> Many thanks, >>> Janneke >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU Thu Mar 20 01:42:17 2008 From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:42:17 -0500 Subject: image of the foreigner Message-ID: Tons in Leskov ----- Original Message ----- From: Alina Israeli Date: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:12 pm Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner > Germans in Queen of Spades, Turgenev's Asja, Oblomov. There must be > > more Germans out there, can't think of any others though. > > Nakanune has a Bulgarian. > > Povesti Belkina has an Englishwoman, Dubrovskij has a French. > > Chekhov has Doch' Albiona. > > > Alina Israeli > LFS, American University > 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW > Washington DC. 20016 > (202) 885-2387 > fax (202) 885-1076 > aisrael at american.edu > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Wed Mar 19 23:08:48 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 19:08:48 -0400 Subject: SEELANGS Digest - 19 Mar 2008 - Special issue (#2008-111) In-Reply-To: <002b01c88a13$e23a4360$a6aeca20$@edu> Message-ID: a. Because he was treated as such by Goncharov. b. Because there is also his father there with all the "trapping" of a German through the eyes of a Russian. On Mar 19, 2008, at 6:52 PM, Sergey Glebov wrote: > I wonder, though, why would Shtol'ts be considered a foreigner? J > > Sergey Glebov > Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sdsures at GMAIL.COM Wed Mar 19 23:31:32 2008 From: sdsures at GMAIL.COM (Stephanie Sures) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:31:32 -0500 Subject: image of the foreigner Message-ID: How about the Russian emigrés in Nabokov's "Mary"? ~Stephanie Sures ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From cwoolhis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Thu Mar 20 02:34:30 2008 From: cwoolhis at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Curt F. Woolhiser) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 22:34:30 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: On the subject of "multicultural Russia," one might mention the fact that Christianity was not the first major world religion to attain official status within the territory of what is today the Russian Federation. It was preceded by Judaism (adopted by the Turkic-speaking Khazars in the late 8th-early 9th century), and by Islam, which became the dominant religion of the Volga Bulgars -- who are believed to have played an important role in the ethnogenesis of the Kazan Tatars -- in the early 10th century. Russia today has the largest number of Muslims of any "European" country (estimates range from between 14 to 22 million), and this segment of the population is growing rapidly, due both to high birthrates among groups originating in the North Caucasus and immigration of Muslim ethnic groups from the "Near Abroad." This is, by the way, the reason that Russia, along with Bosnia-Hercegovina, was recently granted observer status in the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, an organization of states with Muslim majorities (http://www.oic-oci.org/oicnew/page_detail.asp?p_id=52). Some analysts even go so far as to argue that if current demographic trends continue, barring significant religious/cultural identity shifts among traditionally Muslim ethnic groups, the Russian Federation could become a Muslim majority country by the latter part of the 21st century! And here's another interesting fact about Russia's ethnically non-Russian regions: the title of the oldest city in the Russian Federation is held by Derbent, Dagestan, which supposedly dates back some 5,000 years as an urban center. Curt Woolhiser =============================== Curt Woolhiser Preceptor in Slavic Languages Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures Harvard University 12 Quincy St., Barker Center Cambridge, MA 02138-3879 USA Tel. (617) 495-3528 Fax (617) 496-4466 email: cwoolhis at fas.harvard.edu ================================ Quoting ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET: > At 02:04 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote: > >The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a multi-ethnic > >and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and Catholic churches > >did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native subjects of the Empire > >were probably the people who mainly attended them. > > > >Felix Corley > > No doubt... > Maybe I should have said "multi-national". But wasn't 19th Cent. > Russia called > in the west "prisonhouse of nations"? > Jules Levin > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, > >was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a > >middle-class suburb > >with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar jobs. > >It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant churches, > >and > >a Catholic church, I believe. > > > >Jules Levin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From michael.pushkin at BTOPENWORLD.COM Wed Mar 19 23:08:56 2008 From: michael.pushkin at BTOPENWORLD.COM (michael.pushkin) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 23:08:56 -0000 Subject: Paul Debreczeny: In memoriam Message-ID: Dear Tony, Sad news about Debreczeny. At last some good news about my sister. The chemo has shrunk her main tumour from 15-20cms long to 3cms. No more chemo needed for now, but 10 days of targeted radiotherapy in early April. A great relief. Hope you and yours are all well. Best, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Madeline Levine" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:41 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] Paul Debreczeny: In memoriam > I write to share the sad news that Paul Debreczeny, Alumni Distinguished > Professor Emeritus of Russian and Comparative Literature at UNC-Chapel Hill, > died on March 18th. Paul was one of the founders of the UNC-CH Department > of Slavic Languages and Literatures, served as department chair in the > 1970s, and remained as devoted in retirement to the Department's development > as he had been during his years of active service. He was also the founding > Director of the UNC-Duke Title VI Center for Slavic, Eurasian, and East > European Studies. Paul was an internationally recognized scholar, known > especially for his studies of Pushkin: THE OTHER PUSHKIN: A STUDY OF > ALEXANDER PUSHKIN'S PROSE FICTION (1983), SOCIAL FUNCTIONS OF LITERATURE: > ALEXANDER PUSHKIN AND RUSSIAN CULTURE (1997),and his translations of > Pushkin's COLLECTED PROSE (1983, rev. 1999). After Paul retired, he turned > to a study of the life and paintings of Levitan, completing a book-length > biography of the painter shortly before his death. His many friends and > colleagues will miss his wide-ranging critical intelligence and gentle, > engaged presence. > > Madeline G. Levine > University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From klinela at COMCAST.NET Thu Mar 20 00:04:20 2008 From: klinela at COMCAST.NET (Laura Kline) Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:04:20 -0400 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Borscht was originally made not with beets, but with a root similar to carrots or parsnips, called "borscht." Only later, during the 16C, "borscht" root was replaced by beets in the soup. (from Olive Trees and Honey by Gil Marks) Laura Kline, Ph.D Senior Lecturer in Russian Department of German and Slavic Studies Wayne State University 443 Manoogian Hall 906 W. Warren Detroit, MI 48202 fax: 313-577-3266 af7585 at wayne.edu -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Maria Dmytrieva Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:12 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia Borsht is actually not a Russian dish but a Ukrainian one. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwilson at SRAS.ORG Thu Mar 20 07:16:50 2008 From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:16:50 +0300 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <1205980470.47e1cd369a55b@webmail.fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: And if you are interested in religion and stats - Today's Russia's religious minorities include: 9-28 million Muslims; as many as 2.5 million Old Believers; 1.5-2 million Buddhists; .5-1.5 million Catholics; as many as 2 million Protestants; .25-2 million Jews; and many pagan faiths including a large Shaman population, many of whom are based around Lake Baikal and hold regular festivals there. The Orthodox number between 45 and 80 percent of the population. And, of course, perhaps most interesting is the massive difference between the stats reported by various agencies (religious, governmental, etc. - a difference of 300% is pretty hard to explain by margin of error) More info on this: http://www.sras.org/library_religion_russia (P.S. our site is loaded with cool stuff like this) Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Curt F. Woolhiser Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:35 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia On the subject of "multicultural Russia," one might mention the fact that Christianity was not the first major world religion to attain official status within the territory of what is today the Russian Federation. It was preceded by Judaism (adopted by the Turkic-speaking Khazars in the late 8th-early 9th century), and by Islam, which became the dominant religion of the Volga Bulgars -- who are believed to have played an important role in the ethnogenesis of the Kazan Tatars -- in the early 10th century. Russia today has the largest number of Muslims of any "European" country (estimates range from between 14 to 22 million), and this segment of the population is growing rapidly, due both to high birthrates among groups originating in the North Caucasus and immigration of Muslim ethnic groups from the "Near Abroad." This is, by the way, the reason that Russia, along with Bosnia-Hercegovina, was recently granted observer status in the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, an organization of states with Muslim majorities (http://www.oic-oci.org/oicnew/page_detail.asp?p_id=52). Some analysts even go so far as to argue that if current demographic trends continue, barring significant religious/cultural identity shifts among traditionally Muslim ethnic groups, the Russian Federation could become a Muslim majority country by the latter part of the 21st century! And here's another interesting fact about Russia's ethnically non-Russian regions: the title of the oldest city in the Russian Federation is held by Derbent, Dagestan, which supposedly dates back some 5,000 years as an urban center. Curt Woolhiser =============================== Curt Woolhiser Preceptor in Slavic Languages Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures Harvard University 12 Quincy St., Barker Center Cambridge, MA 02138-3879 USA Tel. (617) 495-3528 Fax (617) 496-4466 email: cwoolhis at fas.harvard.edu ================================ Quoting ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET: > At 02:04 AM 3/19/2008, you wrote: > >The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a multi-ethnic > >and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and Catholic churches > >did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native subjects of the Empire > >were probably the people who mainly attended them. > > > >Felix Corley > > No doubt... > Maybe I should have said "multi-national". But wasn't 19th Cent. > Russia called > in the west "prisonhouse of nations"? > Jules Levin > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, > >was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a > >middle-class suburb > >with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar jobs. > >It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant churches, > >and > >a Catholic church, I believe. > > > >Jules Levin > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Nel.Grillaert at UGENT.BE Thu Mar 20 08:25:00 2008 From: Nel.Grillaert at UGENT.BE (Nel Grillaert) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:25:00 +0100 Subject: image of the foreigner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: There are some Polish characters in The Brothers Karamazov, Grushenka's former lover is Polish. See the chapter in which Dmitry follows Grushenka to Mokroe. Best, Nel Grillaert Stephanie Sures schreef: > How about the Russian emigrés in Nabokov's "Mary"? > > ~Stephanie Sures > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK Thu Mar 20 08:50:00 2008 From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:50:00 +0000 Subject: image of the foreigner and apologies to the list In-Reply-To: <1332b3137d03.137d031332b3@imap.georgetown.edu> Message-ID: My apologies to the list regards sending by mistake several messages instead of one message! I had some problems with the internet connection and/or my computer... Regards the image of foreigners, I think that nobody has mentioned Pushkin's Egyptian Nights yet, and there is a visiting German poet who recites Schiller's poem for the Russian audience in Karolina Pavlova's Double life; and Bulgakov's Master and Margarita comes to mind, too; Platonov Epifanskie shliuzy; Chaianov "Neobychainye, no istinnye prikliucheniia Grafa Fedora Mikhailovicha Buturlina", Vladimir Odoevsky's utopian novel "4338-j god"; Vladimir Sorokin "Goluboe salo"; Pelevin's story "The Tambourine of the Upper World" and in Pelevin's "Chapaev and Pustota" there are some Japanese businessmen; Daniil Granin "Prekrasnaia Ute"; Petrushevskaia Kukol'nyj roman (there is a Barbie doll), lots of them in Kataev's and Erenburg's travelogues, too... All best, Alexandra Smith -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK Thu Mar 20 09:21:08 2008 From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:21:08 +0000 Subject: image of the foreigner: Petrushevskaya's song In-Reply-To: <20080320085000.cmh65d0vcao0wowg@www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: I forgot to add to my list Petrushevskaya's song My Boy about a wealthy disabled English(?) financial adviser who lives in a large apartment in Moscow. He is compared to Karl Marx...The song (2003) is truly bizzare and is performed by Petrushevskaya herself (the disc with her songs is titled Seredina Bol'shogo Iuliusa). You could here the song here: http://www.zvuki.ru/T/P/23393/mp3/5 All best, Alexandra ======================================== Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London) Lecturer in Russian School of European Languages and Cultures The University of Edinburgh David Hume Tower George Square Edinburgh EX8 9JX UK tel. +44-(0)131-6511381 fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604 e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk Quoting Alexandra Smith : > My apologies to the list regards sending by mistake several messages > instead of one message! I had some problems with the internet > connection and/or my computer... > Regards the image of foreigners, I think that nobody has mentioned > Pushkin's Egyptian Nights yet, and there is a visiting German poet who > recites Schiller's poem for the Russian audience in Karolina Pavlova's > Double life; and Bulgakov's Master and Margarita comes to mind, too; > Platonov Epifanskie shliuzy; Chaianov "Neobychainye, no istinnye > prikliucheniia Grafa Fedora Mikhailovicha Buturlina", Vladimir > Odoevsky's utopian novel "4338-j god"; Vladimir Sorokin "Goluboe salo"; > Pelevin's story "The Tambourine of the Upper World" and in Pelevin's > "Chapaev and Pustota" there are some Japanese businessmen; Daniil > Granin "Prekrasnaia Ute"; Petrushevskaia Kukol'nyj roman (there is a > Barbie doll), lots of them in Kataev's and Erenburg's travelogues, > too... > > > All best, > Alexandra Smith > > > > -- > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From michael.pushkin at BTOPENWORLD.COM Thu Mar 20 09:34:35 2008 From: michael.pushkin at BTOPENWORLD.COM (michael.pushkin) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 09:34:35 -0000 Subject: apology for error Message-ID: Dear SEELANGERS, Oh dear, my sincere apologies for a very personal and confidential message sent to SEELANGS in error. Please do not pass the information on. Many thanks. Mike Pushkin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Thu Mar 20 10:01:46 2008 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:01:46 +0000 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <003001c88a1d$f2bfcd40$6800a8c0@yourf78bf48ce2> Message-ID: Vasmer, s.v. borshch, says the earlier plant used was borshchevnik (Heracleum spondylium), which in English is hogweed or cow parsnip. One can see why they changed to beet. Whether the soup is Russian, Belarusian, Ukrainian or Polish in origin is probably a matter of which football team you support. Will Ryan Laura Kline wrote: > Borscht was originally made not with beets, but with a root similar to > carrots or parsnips, called "borscht." Only later, during the 16C, "borscht" > root was replaced by beets in the soup. (from Olive Trees and Honey by Gil > Marks) > > > > > > Laura Kline, Ph.D > > Senior Lecturer in Russian > > Department of German and Slavic Studies > > Wayne State University > > 443 Manoogian Hall > > 906 W. Warren > > Detroit, MI 48202 > > fax: 313-577-3266 > > af7585 at wayne.edu > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list > [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Maria Dmytrieva > Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:12 AM > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia > > > > Borsht is actually not a Russian dish but a Ukrainian one. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Thu Mar 20 10:11:00 2008 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:11:00 +0100 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia Message-ID: The writer of Domostroj enjoins his readers to plant borshch all round the edge of the garden with a view to boiling it up, presumably to make soup: а возле тына около всего огорода борщу сеет где кропива ростет и с весны его варит про себя много [a vozle tyna okolo vsego ogoroda borshchu seet gde kropiva rostet i s vesny ego varit pro sebja mnogo] (apologies for the modernised spelling). Borshch, as a plant, is apparently 'cow parsnip' in English, and I assume that it was the tops, not the roots, that were boiled up. Incidentally, I recall in the days of my youth drinking something called 'nettle beer'; it wouid seem therefore that the writer of Domostroj, not normally a person to let slip an opportunity for thrift, has on this occasion missed a trick. And (чтобы два раза не кликать) George V and Nicholas II were indeed cousins, but this was because their mothers, Queen Alexandra and Dagmar/Marija Fedorovna respectively, were sisters. In this instance the credit for astute matrimonial placement (not that it did the Tsar much good in the end) goes to Christian IX of Denmark. John Dunn. -----Original Message----- From: Laura Kline To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 20:04:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia Borscht was originally made not with beets, but with a root similar to carrots or parsnips, called "borscht." Only later, during the 16C, "borscht" root was replaced by beets in the soup. (from Olive Trees and Honey by Gil Marks) Laura Kline, Ph.D Senior Lecturer in Russian Department of German and Slavic Studies Wayne State University 443 Manoogian Hall 906 W. Warren Detroit, MI 48202 fax: 313-577-3266 af7585 at wayne.edu -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Maria Dmytrieva Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 5:12 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ten things you didn't know about Russia Borsht is actually not a Russian dish but a Ukrainian one. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM Thu Mar 20 10:35:09 2008 From: Franssuasso at HOTMAIL.COM (Frans Suasso) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:35:09 +0100 Subject: image of the foreigner Message-ID: Pushkin the German Shuktz in Grobobovchik Andrei Platonov Sedmoi Chelovek Leskov Zheleznaya Volya Saltykov-Shchedrin Malchik v shtanakh i malchik bez shtanov Frans Suasso ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison Pultz" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:06 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner > Dear Colleagues, > > I am searching for scholarship on the image of the foreigner (the > Englishman, the Frenchman, the German, for example) in Russian literature. > > Do you have any references to share? > > Many thanks, > > Allison Pultz > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Southern California > pultz at usc.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarah at DUNCKER.CO.UK Thu Mar 20 12:03:43 2008 From: sarah at DUNCKER.CO.UK (Sarah J Young) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:03:43 -0000 Subject: image of the foreigner Message-ID: Dostoevskii, Igrok Sarah Young SSEES, UCL Gower Street London WC1E 6BT ---- Original Message ---- From: pultz at USC.EDU To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: RE: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 14:06:36 -0700 >Dear Colleagues, > >I am searching for scholarship on the image of the foreigner (the >Englishman, the Frenchman, the German, for example) in Russian >literature. > >Do you have any references to share? > >Many thanks, > >Allison Pultz >Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures >University of Southern California >pultz at usc.edu > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From david.riesenberg at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 20 13:18:50 2008 From: david.riesenberg at GMAIL.COM (david riesenberg) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:18:50 -0700 Subject: Marketing a Study Abroad Program In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, I recently completed a wonderful study abroad experience with a Russian language program based in the Golden Ring city of Yaroslavl. The faculty there is brilliant and, as many of you know, 1000 year old Yaroslavl is one of the most lovely, most enchanting locations in the RF. Featured boldly on the 1000 ruble note, Yaroslavl combines the beauty of the Volga with world-famous architecture and the richest, oldest theatrical tradition in Russia - established by Fyodor Volkov in 1750. Today, Yaroslavl is the home of Oscar-winner Alexander Petrov's animation studio and boasts a stunning artistic and intellectual life. It is the ideal place to experience and study the Russian language and culture (certainly close enough to Moscow and Saint Petersburg, but not too close...!) The language program currently caters to many students from Japan and Southeast Asia, but despite many years of teaching Russian as a foreign language and administering the TORFL tests with a high pass rate, it has been a struggle for the teachers and staff to market this program to students in the USA and Europe. As many of you are regularly involved in this sort of activity, I would like to ask you: what sort of tools and resources are availible for Russian educators in this position? What have you seen work in the past? How can this dedicated team best market their considerable talents within the Western university community and alert students to an excellent study abroad opportunity? Thank you SEELANGers! David ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From scf1000 at CAM.AC.UK Thu Mar 20 12:39:48 2008 From: scf1000 at CAM.AC.UK (Simon Franklin) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:39:48 +0000 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Not exactly. "Megale Rhosia" rather than "Makra Rhosia" for the "Great" version.. More importantly, "Mikra Rhosia" was not the "centre" as opposed to "colonies" (and certainly not by any analogy with Greece) but was used mainly in Byzantine administrative documents relating to Rus bishoprics under Lithuanian rule. For full citations from all the Greek sources on both forms see Mikhail Biblkov'a book "Byzantinorossica: svod vizantiiskikh svidetel'stv o Rusi" (2004), pp. 172-4, 403-5, 597, 600-601. Simon Franklin --On 19 March 2008 11:12:10 +0200 Maria Dmytrieva wrote: > Borsht is actually not a Russian dish but a Ukrainian one. >   > The name Great Russia comes from the Byzantines who called the > northern and southern part of the lands of Rus’ as: њ±єБ¬ > ЎЙГЇ± (Makra Rosia - Great Rus’) and њ№єБ¬ ЎЙГЇ± (Mikra > Rosia - Minor Rus’ or Little Rus’), respectively, following the > pattern used for Greece -- where Little Greece was the centre and Great > Greece were its colonies. > The very name Russia applied to Moscow Princedom was first introduced by > Peter the Great (Butcher) who sent money to foreign ambassadors so that > they called this country in their official papers Russia, not in any > other way. > With best regards, > Maria > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > _________________________________________________________ Professor Simon Franklin, University of Cambridge, Department of Slavonic Studies, Sidgwick Avenue, Cambridge CB3 9DA _________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kalbouss at MAC.COM Thu Mar 20 13:26:35 2008 From: kalbouss at MAC.COM (George Kalbouss) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:26:35 -0500 Subject: Ten things you didn't know about Russia In-Reply-To: <062301c88a07$b7fa2f90$0201a8c0@windows2hfn6v8> Message-ID: How about-- Vladivostok is roughly half-way between Moscow and New York (The hard way)? George Kalbouss The Ohio State University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From howard_s_turner at YAHOO.CO.UK Thu Mar 20 13:43:18 2008 From: howard_s_turner at YAHOO.CO.UK (Howard Turner) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:43:18 -0700 Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, Does anyone know of a place where I can find a reconstructed vocabulary of Common Slavic together with a listing of the corresponding reflexes in modern Slav languages? Or failing that a comparative wordlist of Slav languages would be useful... Grateful for any illumination! Howard Turner ___________________________________________________________ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU Thu Mar 20 14:16:03 2008 From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:16:03 -0400 Subject: image of the foreigner In-Reply-To: <20080320085000.cmh65d0vcao0wowg@www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: I love the list of foreigners in Russian literature, and yes, it seems most of the juicy ones are German. My favorites are Schiller and Hoffmann, --"not THE Schiller" and "not THE Hoffmann," -- in Gogol's Nevskii prospekt. That said, I think the original query was not about foreigners appearing in Russian lit, but about secondary sources/ scholarship discussing such images. -FR Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor Chair, Russian and Russian Studies Coordinator, German and Russian Wheaton College Norton, Massachusetts 02766 Office: (508) 285-3696 FAX: (508) 286-3640 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU Thu Mar 20 14:17:46 2008 From: sforres1 at SWARTHMORE.EDU (Sibelan E S Forrester) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:17:46 -0400 Subject: image of the foreigner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Allison, I want to second Alexandra Smith's recommendation of Karoline Pavlova's DOUBLE LIFE -- it's full of foreigners, with German, French, English and Spanish individuals mentioned in particular and some wonderful wry commentary from the narrator. Note also the brief "Foolish German" in A. N. Afanas'ev's collection (though of course the "German" could be from a variety of Western nations) -- in the Pantheon translation by Norbert Guterman it's on p. 600. With best wishes, Sibelan Sibelan Forrester Russian/Modern Languages and Literatures Swarthmore College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From young at UMBC.EDU Thu Mar 20 14:22:08 2008 From: young at UMBC.EDU (Steven Young) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:22:08 -0400 Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary In-Reply-To: <146613.42608.qm@web26615.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: You might find Rick Derksen's recently published Etymological Dictionary of the Slavic Inherited Lexicon useful (Leiden Indo-European Etymological Dictionary Series). Steve Young. -- Steven Young Associate Professor of Russian & Linguistics Department of Modern Languages & Linguistics University of Maryland, Baltimore County 1000 Hilltop Circle Baltimore, MD 21250 Tel. 410-455-2117 > Dear SEELANGers, > > Does anyone know of a place where I can find a > reconstructed vocabulary of Common Slavic together > with a listing of the corresponding reflexes in modern > Slav languages? Or failing that a comparative > wordlist of Slav languages would be useful... > > Grateful for any illumination! > > Howard Turner ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From colkitto at ROGERS.COM Thu Mar 20 14:28:45 2008 From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (colkitto) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 10:28:45 -0400 Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary Message-ID: The new edition of Lunt's OCS grammar contains, if I may be allowed to quote myself "one of the best selections of [such] forms currently available", for the IE Common Slavic stage ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Turner" To: Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 9:43 AM Subject: [SEELANGS] reconstructed common slavic vocabulary > Dear SEELANGers, > > Does anyone know of a place where I can find a > reconstructed vocabulary of Common Slavic together > with a listing of the corresponding reflexes in modern > Slav languages? Or failing that a comparative > wordlist of Slav languages would be useful... > > Grateful for any illumination! > > Howard Turner > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good > > http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From obukhina at ACLS.ORG Thu Mar 20 15:25:46 2008 From: obukhina at ACLS.ORG (Olga Bukhina) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:25:46 -0400 Subject: image of the foreigner: Petrushevskaya's song In-Reply-To: <20080320092108.o4fhdqqb6sk00o8c@www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: L. Ulitskaya, Iskreenne vash, Shurik. A French woman Shukir meets in Moscow and other tourists. Olga Bukhina -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Alexandra Smith Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 5:21 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner: Petrushevskaya's song I forgot to add to my list Petrushevskaya's song My Boy about a wealthy disabled English(?) financial adviser who lives in a large apartment in Moscow. He is compared to Karl Marx...The song (2003) is truly bizzare and is performed by Petrushevskaya herself (the disc with her songs is titled Seredina Bol'shogo Iuliusa). You could here the song here: http://www.zvuki.ru/T/P/23393/mp3/5 All best, Alexandra ======================================== Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London) Lecturer in Russian School of European Languages and Cultures The University of Edinburgh David Hume Tower George Square Edinburgh EX8 9JX UK tel. +44-(0)131-6511381 fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604 e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk Quoting Alexandra Smith : > My apologies to the list regards sending by mistake several messages > instead of one message! I had some problems with the internet > connection and/or my computer... > Regards the image of foreigners, I think that nobody has mentioned > Pushkin's Egyptian Nights yet, and there is a visiting German poet who > recites Schiller's poem for the Russian audience in Karolina Pavlova's > Double life; and Bulgakov's Master and Margarita comes to mind, too; > Platonov Epifanskie shliuzy; Chaianov "Neobychainye, no istinnye > prikliucheniia Grafa Fedora Mikhailovicha Buturlina", Vladimir > Odoevsky's utopian novel "4338-j god"; Vladimir Sorokin "Goluboe salo"; > Pelevin's story "The Tambourine of the Upper World" and in Pelevin's > "Chapaev and Pustota" there are some Japanese businessmen; Daniil > Granin "Prekrasnaia Ute"; Petrushevskaia Kukol'nyj roman (there is a > Barbie doll), lots of them in Kataev's and Erenburg's travelogues, > too... > > > All best, > Alexandra Smith > > > > -- > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Tol at BRILL.NL Thu Mar 20 15:28:13 2008 From: Tol at BRILL.NL (Sijmen Tol) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:28:13 +0100 Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary In-Reply-To: A<146613.42608.qm@web26615.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Perhaps this is what you were looking for? http://www.indo-european.nl/cgi-bin/response.cgi?root=leiden&morpho=0&ba sename=\data\ie\slav&first=1 Sijmen Tol Linguistic Bibliography Leiden -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Howard Turner Sent: donderdag 20 maart 2008 14:43 To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] reconstructed common slavic vocabulary Dear SEELANGers, Does anyone know of a place where I can find a reconstructed vocabulary of Common Slavic together with a listing of the corresponding reflexes in modern Slav languages? Or failing that a comparative wordlist of Slav languages would be useful... Grateful for any illumination! Howard Turner ___________________________________________________________ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email ______________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU Thu Mar 20 15:52:08 2008 From: greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Svetlana Grenier) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:52:08 -0400 Subject: image of the foreigner and composers in literature Message-ID: You have both a foreigner and composer in Lemm, in Turgenev's Dvorianskoe gnezdo. Another foreigner: Nelly's grandfather Shmidt (sp?) in Dostoevsky's Unizhennye i oskorblennye. Another composer: I forget the name, but one of the main characters in Jaroslaw Iwaszkiewicz Chwala i slawa (or is it Slawa i chwala?) Svetlana Grenier - > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Thu Mar 20 15:53:50 2008 From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:53:50 -0000 Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary In-Reply-To: <146613.42608.qm@web26615.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> Message-ID: N A Kondrashov: Slavyanskie Yazyki, Uchpedgiz 1956; 2nd edn Prosveshchenie 1986 The first edition has a section on what the Ur-Slavs were like and what the common vocabulary tells us about their society and customs. The second edition changes its emphasis and has a chapter "Praslavyanskoe nasledie" with more comparative material, and quotes Lehr-Splawinski as the source of some useful statistics. More titles are mentioned in the reading list to the chapter. I could scan this if you contact me directly. Andrew Jameson Malvern, UK -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Howard Turner Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 1:43 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] reconstructed common slavic vocabulary Dear SEELANGers, Does anyone know of a place where I can find a reconstructed vocabulary of Common Slavic together with a listing of the corresponding reflexes in modern Slav languages? Or failing that a comparative wordlist of Slav languages would be useful... Grateful for any illumination! Howard Turner ___________________________________________________________ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Thu Mar 20 15:58:31 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:58:31 -0400 Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary In-Reply-To: <0396DC326F1E614B8B2124EEE1D9EBA80343C0A9@emea.brillw2k.local> Message-ID: Sijmen Tol wrote: > Perhaps this is what you were looking for? > > Fascinating stuff, but I can't seem to find an encoding that works. My first clue was "Truba‰ev," but I also see forms like this: Proto-Slavic form: a°gne§ ... Slovak: jahn¹a `lamb' [n nt] Polish: jagnie§ `lamb' [n nt] Serbo-Croatian: ja?gne `lamb' [n nt]; #SCr. C¹ak. ja?n´e (Vrgada) `lamb' [n nt], ja²~n´ci [Nomp] Do they have a magic decoder ring somewhere? TIA -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From billings at ncnu.edu.tw Thu Mar 20 16:08:39 2008 From: billings at ncnu.edu.tw (Loren A. Billings) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:08:39 +0800 Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary Message-ID: > Fascinating stuff, but I can't seem to find an encoding that works. This is what worked for me (on my Mac with a Safari browser): 1. At the top of the page, click on . 2. On the new page, next to , select . 3. In the borwser's menu, pull down to , thence to . Everything worked for me after this. Hope it helps others. --Loren --==Mailed via NCNU E-Mail==-- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mstaube at MSCC.HUJI.AC.IL Thu Mar 20 16:10:43 2008 From: mstaube at MSCC.HUJI.AC.IL (Moshe Taube) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:10:43 +0200 Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary In-Reply-To: <47E289A7.80207@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: The encoding, as revealed by my clever browser, is Western (Windows-1252) best, Moshe On Mar 20, 2008, at 5:58 PM, Paul B. Gallagher wrote: > Sijmen Tol wrote: > >> Perhaps this is what you were looking for? >> > root=leiden&morpho=0&basename=\data\ie\slav&first=1> > > Fascinating stuff, but I can't seem to find an encoding that works. > > My first clue was "Truba‰ev," but I also see forms like this: > > Proto-Slavic form: a°gne§ > ... > Slovak: jahn¹a `lamb' [n nt] > Polish: jagnie§ `lamb' [n nt] > Serbo-Croatian: ja?gne `lamb' [n nt]; #SCr. C¹ak. ja?n´e (Vrgada) > `lamb' [n nt], ja²~n´ci [Nomp] > > Do they have a magic decoder ring somewhere? > > TIA > > -- > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. > -- > Paul B. Gallagher > pbg translations, inc. > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" > http://pbg-translations.com > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > --- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sclancy at UCHICAGO.EDU Thu Mar 20 16:12:59 2008 From: sclancy at UCHICAGO.EDU (Steven Clancy) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 11:12:59 -0500 Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary Message-ID: I would recommend the following reference book: Kopečný, František. 1981. Základní všeslovanská slovní zásoba. Praha: Academia. The edition is Czech, but the content is that of a common slavic dictionary with reflexes in all the Slavic languages. Steven > Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:43:18 -0700 > From: Howard Turner > Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary > > Dear SEELANGers, > > Does anyone know of a place where I can find a > reconstructed vocabulary of Common Slavic together > with a listing of the corresponding reflexes in modern > Slav languages? Or failing that a comparative > wordlist of Slav languages would be useful... > > Grateful for any illumination! > > Howard Turner ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From gbpeirce at PITT.EDU Thu Mar 20 17:12:31 2008 From: gbpeirce at PITT.EDU (Peirce, Gina M) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:12:31 -0400 Subject: University of Pittsburgh seeks REES Associate Director Message-ID: The Center for Russian & East European Studies (REES) at the University of Pittsburgh seeks to fill the position of Associate Director. REES is a Title VI National Resource Center that works with faculty, students and staff throughout the University, including the humanities, social sciences and professional schools; organizes an educational outreach program for the local community and tri-state region; maintains a wide network of international exchanges; helps support the annual Slavic and East European Summer Language Institute; and publishes the Carl Beck Papers in Russian & East European Studies. The Associate Director reports to the Director of REES and works with the Director and REES staff to design, develop and administer the Title VI program and all other activities of REES. Other duties include liaison with faculty and graduate and professional school students; with the University administration; and with public and private groups, locally, nationally and intern! ationally; as well as representing REES when asked to do so by the Director. The Associate Director advises graduate and professional school students in the REES Graduate Certificate programs. Some national and international travel is required. This is a full-time administrative position, but limited adjunct teaching may be possible. Requirements: Advanced degree (Ph.D. strongly preferred); substantial professional knowledge of or experience working in Russian, East European or Eurasian affairs; competence in at least one REES-area language (preferably Russian or another Slavic language); administrative skills and organizational ability; demonstrated writing skills; and the interpersonal skills to work well with students, faculty, university administrators, external program officers, foreign visitors and others. University administrative experience preferred. The appointment will begin on August 1, 2008. Salary commensurate with qualifications and experience. Excellent benefits package. Review of applications will begin on April 11, 2008 and will continue until the position is filled. Please visit the University's Human Resources website at www.hr.pitt.edu to apply. In addition to the application, please be sure to submit a curriculum vitae, a statement of administrative and research experience, and reference letters as attachments. The University of Pittsburgh, as an educational institution and as an employer, does not discriminate on the basis of race, color, religion, ethnicity, national origin, age, sex, sexual orientation or marital, veteran, or handicapped status. This is a commitment made by the University, and is in accordance with federal, state and local laws and regulations. ************************************* Gina M. Peirce Assistant Director Center for Russian and East European Studies University of Pittsburgh 4414 Posvar Hall Pittsburgh, PA 15260 Phone: (412) 648-2290 Fax: (412) 648-7002 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU Thu Mar 20 17:15:23 2008 From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:15:23 -0500 Subject: image of the foreigner and composers in literature Message-ID: Odoevsky, Gogol, Leskov, Pushkin (esp. in Arap Petra Velikogo). Leskov is particularly interesting. As for academic writing on the topic, I wrote on the Englishman in Zapechatlennyj angel. Others have done more, I am sure. Odoevsky is great on both composers and foreigners. For composers in Russ. Lit., Mandelstam has several poems--the most famous being "Oda Betkhovenu" and "Bach". Egipetskaia marka is also good, but it has been mentioned, I think. My apologies if the rest have also been mentioned already. o.m. ----- Original Message ----- From: Svetlana Grenier Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 10:52 am Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner and composers in literature > You have both a foreigner and composer in Lemm, in Turgenev's > Dvorianskoe gnezdo. > Another foreigner: Nelly's grandfather Shmidt (sp?) in Dostoevsky's > Unizhennye i oskorblennye. > Another composer: I forget the name, but one of the main characters > in Jaroslaw Iwaszkiewicz Chwala i slawa (or is it Slawa i chwala?) > > Svetlana Grenier > > - > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From STEFANIS at GRINNELL.EDU Thu Mar 20 17:33:54 2008 From: STEFANIS at GRINNELL.EDU (Stefani, Sara) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 12:33:54 -0500 Subject: image of the foreigner Message-ID: Hi Allison, I just submitted my dissertation (on Monday!) on this topic. The first half deals with images of the Russian in English literature, the second half with images of the English in Russian literature. If you like, you can contact me off-list at stefanis at grinnell.edu - I'd be happy to discuss this topic with you and share my sources and bibliography. Best, Sara Stefani ________________________________ From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Allison Pultz Sent: Wed 3/19/2008 4:06 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner Dear Colleagues, I am searching for scholarship on the image of the foreigner (the Englishman, the Frenchman, the German, for example) in Russian literature. Do you have any references to share? Many thanks, Allison Pultz Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Southern California pultz at usc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU Thu Mar 20 17:50:59 2008 From: greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Svetlana Grenier) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:50:59 -0400 Subject: image of the foreigner Message-ID: Sara, Just curious: did you mention the evil English tutor Millcote (Mil'kot)in Evgeniia Tur's "Antonina" (part of Plemiannitsa)? Thanks, Svetlana ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefani, Sara" Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 1:33 pm Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner > Hi Allison, > I just submitted my dissertation (on Monday!) on this topic. The > first half deals with images of the Russian in English literature, > the second half with images of the English in Russian literature. > If you like, you can contact me off-list at stefanis at grinnell.edu - > I'd be happy to discuss this topic with you and share my sources > and bibliography. > > Best, > Sara Stefani > > ________________________________ > > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures > list on behalf of Allison Pultz > Sent: Wed 3/19/2008 4:06 PM > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Subject: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > I am searching for scholarship on the image of the foreigner (the > Englishman, the Frenchman, the German, for example) in Russian > literature. > Do you have any references to share? > > Many thanks, > > Allison Pultz > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Southern California > pultz at usc.edu > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Thu Mar 20 17:57:29 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:57:29 -0400 Subject: image of the foreigner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In this case what could be very interesting and useful is a dissertation written in the US about 10 years ago about the Western view of the Chinese through Western literature. I don't remember the author's name but it is easily searchable in dissertation abstracts. On Mar 20, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Francoise Rosset wrote: > That said, I think the original query was not about foreigners > appearing in Russian lit, but about secondary sources/ scholarship > discussing such images. > -FR Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wm6 at uchicago.edu Thu Mar 20 18:22:25 2008 From: wm6 at uchicago.edu (w martin) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:22:25 -0500 Subject: Translation question Message-ID: Drodzy SEELANGSowcy, I'm wondering if anyone knows the origin of the phrase так природа захотела, почему — не наше дело. Many thanks in advance for any help! Bill Martin __________________________ William Martin Ph.D. Candidate Comparative Literature The University of Chicago 5801 S. Ellis Ave. Chicago, IL 60637 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rrobin at GWU.EDU Thu Mar 20 19:57:41 2008 From: rrobin at GWU.EDU (Richard Robin) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:57:41 -0400 Subject: Foreign Language Difficulty Scale In-Reply-To: <6E497ADB607656479C24E6D7BF6B505A0ADF9002@exchange.randolphcollege.edu> Message-ID: Romance languages - Category I German - category II Slavic - category III Arabic, Chinese, Japanese - catgory IV This is the FSI listening I believe, but it is at variance with the National Virtual Translation center's listing, which is limited to three categories. On Wed, Mar 19, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Klawa Thresher < kthresher at randolphcollege.edu> wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > I wanted to check the Defense Department's language difficulty scale (to > compare Spanish, French, German, Russian and Chinese), and have tried > googling it, but when I have tried to go to various links from a couple > of sites, they have been unavailable. Does someone have more ready > access to this information. > > Thank you, > Klawa Thresher > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- Richard M. Robin, Ph.D. Director Russian Language Program Technical Adviser, GW Language Сenter The George Washington University Washington, DC 20052 202-994-7081 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Russkiy tekst v UTF-8 From mshrage at INDIANA.EDU Thu Mar 20 20:48:18 2008 From: mshrage at INDIANA.EDU (Shrager, Miriam) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:48:18 -0400 Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You might find useful the site "The Tower of Babel" (look it up on google). It has reconstructions of many language families and macro families as well, including Slavic, Baltic, Indo-European, and others. Best, Miriam Shrager Indiana University, Bloomington > > Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 06:43:18 -0700 > From: Howard Turner > Subject: reconstructed common slavic vocabulary > > Dear SEELANGers, > > Does anyone know of a place where I can find a > reconstructed vocabulary of Common Slavic together > with a listing of the corresponding reflexes in modern > Slav languages? Or failing that a comparative > wordlist of Slav languages would be useful... > > Grateful for any illumination! > > Howard Turner > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From itigount at DU.EDU Thu Mar 20 21:26:45 2008 From: itigount at DU.EDU (Inna Tigountsova) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:26:45 -0600 Subject: Translation question In-Reply-To: <20080320132225.AXU65183@m4500-03.uchicago.edu> Message-ID: Dear Bill, I imagine it belong to Bulat Okudzhava, since he was the one signing the song that included this line (and this is from memory, so it may not be entirely accurate): Каждый пишет, как он дышит, Как он дышит, так и пишет, Не стараясь угодить, Так природа захотела, Отчего - не наше дело, Для чего - не нам судить. Исторический роман сочинял я понемногу, пробираясь сквозь туман от пролога к эпилогу. В путь героев снаряжал, наводил о прошлом справки, и поручиком в отставке сам себя воображал. Каждый пишет, как он дышит,... Так природа захотела, почему  не наше дело. Отчего - не нам судить. Hope this helps! Inna Tigountsova University of Denver ----- Original Message ----- From: w martin Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:25 pm Subject: [SEELANGS] Translation question To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Drodzy SEELANGSowcy, > > I'm wondering if anyone knows the origin of the phrase > > так природа захотела, почему  не наше дело. > > Many thanks in advance for any help! > > > Bill Martin > > > __________________________ > > William Martin > Ph.D. Candidate > Comparative Literature > The University of Chicago > 5801 S. Ellis Ave. > Chicago, IL 60637 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From annikea at EDEN.RUTGERS.EDU Thu Mar 20 21:17:48 2008 From: annikea at EDEN.RUTGERS.EDU (Annikea Miller) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 16:17:48 -0500 Subject: questions Message-ID: What was the name of the actual program? What was the location/ university affiliation? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From itigount at DU.EDU Thu Mar 20 21:32:27 2008 From: itigount at DU.EDU (Inna Tigountsova) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:32:27 -0600 Subject: Translation question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: "belong"s" to," naturally, had to apologize. I.T. ----- Original Message ----- From: Inna Tigountsova Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 3:29 pm Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Translation question To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Dear Bill, > > I imagine it belong to Bulat Okudzhava, > since he was the one signing the song that included this line (and > this is from memory, so it may not be entirely accurate): > > Каждый пишет, как он дышит, > Как он дышит, так и пишет, > Не стараясь угодить, > Так природа захотела, > Отчего - не наше дело, > Для чего - не нам судить. > > Исторический роман > сочинял я понемногу, > пробираясь сквозь туман > от пролога к эпилогу. > В путь героев снаряжал, > наводил о прошлом справки, > и поручиком в отставке > сам себя воображал. > > Каждый пишет, как он дышит,... > > Так природа захотела, почему  не наше дело. > Отчего - не нам судить. > > > Hope this helps! > > Inna Tigountsova > University of Denver > ----- Original Message ----- > From: w martin > Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008 12:25 pm > Subject: [SEELANGS] Translation question > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > > > > Drodzy SEELANGSowcy, > > > > I'm wondering if anyone knows the origin of the phrase > > > > так природа захотела, почему  не наше дело. > > > > Many thanks in advance for any help! > > > > > > Bill Martin > > > > > > __________________________ > > > > William Martin > > Ph.D. Candidate > > Comparative Literature > > The University of Chicago > > 5801 S. Ellis Ave. > > Chicago, IL 60637 > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web > Interface at: > > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Fri Mar 21 03:56:16 2008 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:56:16 -0400 Subject: image of the foreigner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Frans Suasso wrote: >Saltykov-Shchedrin Malchik v shtanakh i malchik bez shtanov Ah, but of those only Mal'chik v shtanakh was a foreigner. Mal'chik bez shtanov, sadly, was our (Russian) compatriot :) -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Frans Suasso Sent: Thursday, March 20, 2008 6:35 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner Pushkin the German Shuktz in Grobobovchik Andrei Platonov Sedmoi Chelovek Leskov Zheleznaya Volya Frans Suasso ----- Original Message ----- From: "Allison Pultz" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2008 10:06 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner > Dear Colleagues, > > I am searching for scholarship on the image of the foreigner (the > Englishman, the Frenchman, the German, for example) in Russian literature. > > Do you have any references to share? > > Many thanks, > > Allison Pultz > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Southern California > pultz at usc.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Fri Mar 21 04:46:26 2008 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:46:26 -0800 Subject: Historical reference? Message-ID: I'm trying to translate the following sentence, which refers to someone who lost his legs in World War II. Does anyone know what this reference to Rus is about and how it might be conveyed in English? А то, что увечье, так, может, оно делало его еще более привлекательным, говорилось ведь на Руси: <Любишь своего?> - <Жалею, вестимо...> Sarah Hurst No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM From pultz at USC.EDU Fri Mar 21 05:01:37 2008 From: pultz at USC.EDU (Allison Pultz) Date: Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:01:37 -0700 Subject: image of the foreigner Message-ID: I love reading SEELANGS-- it's even more fun when the emails are in response to one's own query. Thanks to everyone for all the great references! If any more secondary criticism on the image of the foreigner comes to mind, please post or email me. best, Allison pultz at usc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jschill at AMERICAN.EDU Fri Mar 21 06:35:54 2008 From: jschill at AMERICAN.EDU (John Schillinger) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 02:35:54 -0400 Subject: Cheremsha In-Reply-To: <1206007860.98e8033cJ.Dunn@slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: John Dunn's comments on borshch and Domostroj prompt me to inquire if anyone knows what cheremsha really is as a plant (garlic tops?). I've always sought it out in its pickled form at markets in Russia, but never have come across it in the US until I recently found a jar of it at a DC Russian food store where the English translation on the label was "Ramson." John Schillinger Emeritus Prof. of Russian American University ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From zielinski at GMX.CH Fri Mar 21 07:16:37 2008 From: zielinski at GMX.CH (Jan Zielinski) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:16:37 +0100 Subject: Cheremsha In-Reply-To: <958FAD83-92E6-4964-90AC-9519D555D7AB@american.edu> Message-ID: John Schillinger: > John Dunn's comments on borshch and Domostroj prompt me to inquire if > anyone knows what cheremsha > really is as a plant (garlic tops?). I've always sought it out in its > pickled form at markets in Russia, but never have come across it in the > US until I recently found a jar of it at a DC Russian food store where > the English translation on the label was "Ramson." It's also called wild garlic, bear's garlic (Latin: allium ursinum). Quite popular in Switzerland. Jan Zielinski Berne ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From xmas at UKR.NET Fri Mar 21 07:05:06 2008 From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:05:06 +0200 Subject: Cheremsha In-Reply-To: <958FAD83-92E6-4964-90AC-9519D555D7AB@american.edu> Message-ID:  Черемша (лат. — Allium ursinum, медвежий лук, дикий чеснок, колба) — многолетнее дикорастущее растение семейства луковых. Иногда черемшой называют так же вид Allium victoriale — лук победный[1]. Листья используют в пищу в сыром виде, в маринованном, в горячих блюдах, в хлебе и пирогах. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Черемша Multritran gives the following variants for it: wild leek bear's onion (Allium ursinum); broad-leaved garlic (Allium ursinum); ramson (Allium ursinum) With best regards, Maria --- Оригінальне повідомлення --- Від кого: John Schillinger Кому: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Дата: 21 березня, 08:35:54 Тема: [SEELANGS] Cheremsha John Dunn's comments on borshch and Domostroj prompt me to inquire if anyone knows what cheremsha really is as a plant (garlic tops?). I've always sought it out in its pickled form at markets in Russia, but never have come across it in the US until I recently found a jar of it at a DC Russian food store where the English translation on the label was "Ramson." John Schillinger   ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jschill at AMERICAN.EDU Fri Mar 21 13:19:47 2008 From: jschill at AMERICAN.EDU (John Schillinger) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:19:47 -0400 Subject: Cheremsha In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Maria- Many thanks! For that matter, I wasn't aware of Wikipidia по-русски! Кindest regards, John On Mar 21, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Maria Dmytrieva wrote: > Черемша (лат. — Allium ursinum, медвежий лук, дикий чеснок, > колба) — многолетнее дикорастущее растение семейства луковых. > Иногда черемшой называют так же вид Allium victoriale — лук > победный[1]. Листья используют в пищу в сыром виде, в маринованном, > в горячих блюдах, в хлебе и пирогах. > http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Черемша > > Multritran gives the following variants for it: > wild leek > bear's onion (Allium ursinum); broad-leaved garlic (Allium ursinum); > ramson (Allium ursinum) > > With best regards, > Maria > > --- Оригінальне повідомлення --- > Від кого: John Schillinger > Кому: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Дата: 21 березня, 08:35:54 > Тема: [SEELANGS] Cheremsha > > John Dunn's comments on borshch and Domostroj prompt me to > inquire if > anyone knows what cheremsha > really is as a plant (garlic tops?). I've always sought it out in its > pickled form at markets in Russia, but never have come across it in > the US until I recently found a jar of it at a DC Russian food store > where the English translation on the label was "Ramson." > > John Schillinger > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Schillinger Emeritus Prof. of Russian American University 192 High St. Strasburg VA, 22657 Ph. (540) 465-2828 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU Fri Mar 21 13:53:12 2008 From: russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU (Valentino, Russell) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 08:53:12 -0500 Subject: image of the foreigner Message-ID: One more reverse example occurs to me. Sinyavsky in his Soviet Civilization: A Cultural History ruminates on the general imperfection and amorphousness of the Russian national character. This has always seemed to me to imply an other, non-Russian whose national character is relatively well-formed and stable. He doesn't explore the implication, but it seems to rely on exactly the kinds of images the list has been generating, as well as some popular assumptions. It also ties to the lateness of Russia's national project vis-a-vis some of its European neighbors and the spread of print culture and reading (as Jeff Brooks reminded us in his post). As part of the national project, the images running through my head (from Gogol's "Asiatic" money lender from Portrait to the foreigners and foreignish Russians in Turgenev's mid-century novels or War and Peace) all tend to show what authentic Russians are supposed to be like to a group that is rather unsure about it; the transition to what Soviets are supposed to be like is pretty seemless. ________________________________ From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Allison Pultz Sent: Fri 3/21/2008 12:01 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] image of the foreigner I love reading SEELANGS-- it's even more fun when the emails are in response to one's own query. Thanks to everyone for all the great references! If any more secondary criticism on the image of the foreigner comes to mind, please post or email me. best, Allison pultz at usc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ericson at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG Fri Mar 21 14:59:20 2008 From: ericson at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG (Brita Ericson) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:59:20 -0500 Subject: Deadline Reminder: Fellowships for Russian Language Study - April 1 Message-ID: American Councils for International Education: ACTR/ACCELS is pleased to announce fellowship opportunities for graduate and undergraduate students to study for the fall semester and academic year in Vladimir, Moscow, or St. Petersburg on the Advanced Russian Language & Area Studies Program (RLASP). Applications for the fall semester or academic year program are due April 1st. Semester programs provide approximately twenty hours per week of in-class instruction in Russian grammar, phonetics, conversation, and cultural studies at Moscow International University and at the Russian State Pedagogical University (Gertsen Institute) in St. Petersburg. The KORA Center for Russian Language hosts the Vladimir program. Participants receive graduate- or undergraduate-level academic credit through Bryn Mawr College. A full-time U.S. resident director oversees the academic and cultural programs and assists participants in academic, administrative, and personal matters. Students may live with Russian host families or in university dormitories in Moscow and St. Petersburg; all students in Vladimir live with Russian families. During the semester, students may take advantage of volunteer opportunities or internship placements at sites including local public schools, charity organizations, international businesses, non-profit organizations, and international NGOs. Students are also offered the chance to meet for two hours per week with peer tutors recruited from their host universities. Full and partial fellowships are available through American Councils from U.S. Department of State (Title VIII) and the U.S. Department of Education (Fulbright-Hays) grant support. Many colleges and universities also provide financial aid for participation in American Councils programs. Recent participants have received substantial fellowship support from the Institute of International Education (IIE), the Benjamin A. Gilman International Scholarship, and the U.S. Department of Education Title VI (FLAS). The Advanced Russian Language and Area Studies Program is also offered for the Summer and Spring semesters. Programs also available for Heritage Speakers of Russian. Please contact the Outbound Office for more details. Application Deadlines: Fall/Academic Year Program: April 1 Spring Semester: October 1 Summer Program: March 1 Applications are now available for download at: www.acrussiaabroad.org. Applications are currently being accepted for fall semester and academic year programs. For more information and an application, please contact: Russian & Eurasian Outbound Programs American Councils for International Education: ACTR/ACCELS 1776 Massachusetts Avenue, NW, Suite 700 Washington, DC 20036 Phone: (202) 833-7522 Email: outbound at americancouncils.org Website: www.acrussiaabroad.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Fri Mar 21 15:15:43 2008 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 11:15:43 -0400 Subject: image of the foreigner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I an surprised that no one has mentioned Fonvizin's NEDOROSL'. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis On Thu, 20 Mar 2008, Allison Pultz wrote: > I love reading SEELANGS-- it's even more fun when the emails are in response to one's own query. Thanks to everyone for all the great references! If any more secondary criticism on the image of the foreigner comes to mind, please post or email me. > > best, > > Allison > pultz at usc.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From o-livshin at NORTHWESTERN.EDU Fri Mar 21 15:25:47 2008 From: o-livshin at NORTHWESTERN.EDU (Olga Livshin) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:25:47 -0500 Subject: Good news about the European University in St. Petersburg Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, The European University in St. Petersburg has been allowed to return to its building. The court indicated to the EU that the majority of its fire safety violations have been corrected... More details can be found here: http://www.fontanka.ru/2008/03/21/017/ Best, Olga Livshin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Janneke.vandeStadt at WILLIAMS.EDU Fri Mar 21 16:46:44 2008 From: Janneke.vandeStadt at WILLIAMS.EDU (Janneke van de Stadt) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 11:46:44 -0500 Subject: Composers in Literature In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Many thanks to all you responded to my query on composers in literature. We've come up with quite a collection! Several members expressed interest in seeing the list, so I am pasting it below. I should say from the outset that it does not include all the suggestions contributed simply because some of them extended beyond my current focus (no poetry or critical essays, for example). Once again, many thanks, and feel free to keep adding to it! Janneke Literature on Composers 1-“Mozart i Salieri” Pushkin 2-“Amadeus” Peter Shaffer 3-Master i Margarita (names of composers) 4-Dr Faustus (Thomas Mann) 5-“Symphonie Pathetique” Klaus Mann 6-Polonaise, Guy de Pourtales 7-Ritter Gluck Rat Krespel, Kreisleriana, Kater Murr, E.T.A Hoffmann 8-Odoevsky, “Bakh” and “Poslednii kvartet Betkhovena” 9-Sollogub, “Istoriia dvukh kolosh” 10- “The Ground Beneath her Feet” Salman Rushdie 11- “The Silence of Thelonius Monk” John Edgar Wideman 12-“Forest Song” Lesya Ukrainka 13-“Sila Nepostizhimogo” Alexander Grin 14-“Rakhmaninov” and “Chaikovsky” from Yuri Nagibin’s Vecnhye Sputniki (Vechnaia muzyka?) 15”Resurrection of Mozart” and “Chaikovsky” Nina Berberova 16-“Osuzhdenie Paganini” Anatolii Vinogradov 17-“Korzyna s elovymi shishkami” (Grieg) and “Staryi povar” Konstantin Paustovsky 18-“Consuelo” George Sand 19-“Kstalt milosci” Jerzy Broszkiewicz (on Chopin) 20-A Clockwork Orange (there’s a Danish composer in here), Anthony Burgess 21- “The Hilda Tablet Plays” by Henry Reed (BBC Radio Comedy) 22-“Kompozitor,” by Kaverin 23- “Scriabin” Friedrich Gorenstein 24- “Dvorak in Love” Skvorecky 25-Karl Capek “Zivot a dilo skladatele foltyna” (“The Cheat,” unfinished) 26-Alejo Carpentier “Concierto barroco” and “Los pasos perdidos” 27-Pascal Quignard “Tous les matins du monde” 28-“Lost Art” (sci-fi, Strauss reincarnated) James Blish 29-“Le grand magicien” Christian Jacq 30-“Das Genie einer Nacht” Stefan Zweig 31- “Der abentheuerliche, wunderbare und unerhoerte Ritter Hopffensack” Johann Beer 32- “Phrynis Mitilenaeus oder Satyrischer Componist” Caspar Printz ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From brewerm at U.LIBRARY.ARIZONA.EDU Fri Mar 21 17:17:15 2008 From: brewerm at U.LIBRARY.ARIZONA.EDU (Brewer, Michael) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:17:15 -0700 Subject: Historical reference? Message-ID: Could it be Story of a Real Man by Polevoi? mb ________________________________ From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Sarah Hurst Sent: Thu 3/20/2008 9:46 PM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Historical reference? I'm trying to translate the following sentence, which refers to someone who lost his legs in World War II. Does anyone know what this reference to Rus is about and how it might be conveyed in English? ? ??, ??? ??????, ???, ?????, ??? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???????????????, ?????????? ???? ?? ????: - Sarah Hurst No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Fri Mar 21 17:18:15 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:18:15 -0000 Subject: Cheremsha Message-ID: Cheremsha is in Yevtushenko's "Stantsiya Zima" И торговали бабы на базаре коровами, брусникой, черемшой. I translated this in Ruslan 3 as "pickled garlic stalks" and was going to change this translation to "wild garlic" in the next edition, but if it is in fact sold in pickled form in Siberian markets perhaps I should leave my translation as it is, or change it to "pickled wild garlic". John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Schillinger" To: Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Cheremsha > Dear Maria- > Many thanks! For that matter, I wasn't aware of Wikipidia по-русски! > > Кindest regards, > John > On Mar 21, 2008, at 3:05 AM, Maria Dmytrieva wrote: > >> Черемша (лат. — Allium ursinum, медвежий лук, дикий чеснок, колба) — >> многолетнее дикорастущее растение семейства луковых. Иногда черемшой >> называют так же вид Allium victoriale — лук победный[1]. Листья >> используют в пищу в сыром виде, в маринованном, в горячих блюдах, в >> хлебе и пирогах. >> http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Черемша >> >> Multritran gives the following variants for it: >> wild leek >> bear's onion (Allium ursinum); broad-leaved garlic (Allium ursinum); >> ramson (Allium ursinum) >> >> With best regards, >> Maria >> >> --- Оригінальне повідомлення --- >> Від кого: John Schillinger >> Кому: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu >> Дата: 21 березня, 08:35:54 >> Тема: [SEELANGS] Cheremsha >> >> John Dunn's comments on borshch and Domostroj prompt me to inquire if >> anyone knows what cheremsha >> really is as a plant (garlic tops?). I've always sought it out in its >> pickled form at markets in Russia, but never have come across it in >> the US until I recently found a jar of it at a DC Russian food store >> where the English translation on the label was "Ramson." >> >> John Schillinger >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > John Schillinger > Emeritus Prof. of Russian > American University > 192 High St. > Strasburg VA, 22657 > Ph. (540) 465-2828 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Fri Mar 21 17:29:50 2008 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:29:50 -0800 Subject: Historical reference? In-Reply-To: <26C6B0CCB6892843849BE72624C9D12E02718D90@medusa.library.arizona.edu> Message-ID: Interesting suggestion but looks like it's not from a quick search in the text: http://www.lib.ru/PROZA/POLEWOJ/chelowek.txt Also, that's a Soviet story, so why the reference to Rus? I think I might have to ask the author of the article on this one. -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Brewer, Michael Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 9:17 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Historical reference? Could it be Story of a Real Man by Polevoi? mb ________________________________ From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list on behalf of Sarah Hurst Sent: Thu 3/20/2008 9:46 PM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: [SEELANGS] Historical reference? I'm trying to translate the following sentence, which refers to someone who lost his legs in World War II. Does anyone know what this reference to Rus is about and how it might be conveyed in English? ? ??, ??? ??????, ???, ?????, ??? ?????? ??? ??? ????? ???????????????, ?????????? ???? ?? ????: - Sarah Hurst No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET Fri Mar 21 17:46:54 2008 From: darancourlaferriere at COMCAST.NET (Daniel Rancour-Laferriere) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 10:46:54 -0700 Subject: image of the foreigner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, Russian assimilationism and other factors have always made Russian identity a rather vague and amorphous entity. Scratch a Russian and you will find.... all kinds of "other" identities. On close inspection the Russian "self" is very difficult to distinguish from the Russian "other." When I was still sudying things Russian I published a book about this: RUSSIAN NATIONALISM FROM AN INTERDISCIPLINARY PERSPECTIVE (Edwin Mellen Press, 2000, with Introduction by Kathleen Parthé); in Russian as ROSSIIA I RUSSKIE GLAZAMI AMERIKANSKOGO PSIKHOANALITIKA (Ladomir, 2003). For a condensed view of the problem, see: "Who Are the Russians?" RUSSIAN LIFE (no. 6, 2002, p. 64). With regards to the list, Daniel Rancour-Laferriere http://rancour-laferriere.com Valentino, Russell wrote: >One more reverse example occurs to me. Sinyavsky in his Soviet Civilization: A Cultural History ruminates on the general imperfection and amorphousness of the Russian national character. This has always seemed to me to imply an other, non-Russian whose national character is relatively well-formed and stable. He doesn't explore the implication, but it seems to rely on exactly the kinds of images the list has been generating, as well as some popular assumptions. It also ties to the lateness of Russia's national project vis-a-vis some of its European neighbors and the spread of print culture and reading (as Jeff Brooks reminded us in his post). As part of the national project, the images running through my head (from Gogol's "Asiatic" money lender from Portrait to the foreigners and foreignish Russians in Turgenev's mid-century novels or War and Peace) all tend to show what authentic Russians are supposed to be like to a group that is rather unsure about it; the transition to ! what Soviets are supposed to be like is pretty seemless. > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john.kopper at DARTMOUTH.EDU Fri Mar 21 17:59:19 2008 From: john.kopper at DARTMOUTH.EDU (John Kopper) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:59:19 -0500 Subject: Poplavsky question Message-ID: I'm translating Boris Poplavskii's (1928/1993) novel "Apollon Bezobrazov" into English. I know of a French translation. Does anyone know of any other existing translations? Thanks, John Kopper Russian Dept. Dartmouth College ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ericson at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG Fri Mar 21 19:27:45 2008 From: ericson at AMERICANCOUNCILS.ORG (Brita Ericson) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:27:45 -0500 Subject: Deadline Reminder: Fellowships for Eurasian Regional Language Study - April 1 Message-ID: American Councils is pleased to announce fellowship opportunities for U.S. undergraduate and graduate students to participate in the 2008 Fall/Academic Year Eurasian Regional Language Program for language study in Central Asia, the Southern Caucasus, Belarus, Ukraine, and Moldova. Applications for the Fall Semester and Academic Year are due April 1. Applications are now available for download from the American Councils website: http://www.americancouncils.org. Full and partial fellowships are available through American Councils from U.S. Department of State (Title VIII) and U.S. Department of Education (Fulbright-Hays) grant support. Recent program participants have also received substantial fellowship support from the Institute of International Education (IIE), the Benjamin A. Gilman International Scholarship, and the U.S. Department of Education Title VI (FLAS). Recent Eurasian Regional Language Program participants have studied: Azeri in Baku; Buryat in Ulan Ude; Georgian and Chechen in Tbilisi; Kazakh in Almaty; Romanian/Moldovan in Chisinau; Tajik, Persian, and Uzbek in Dushanbe; and Ukrainian in Kyiv Programs also available for the study of: Armenian, Kyrgyz, Pashto, Tatar, Turkmen, Tuvan, and Yakut. [Students seeking to study languages not listed here should contact the American Councils Outbound Office (202) 833-7522.] Please note that some languages are offered in more than one country. The Eurasian Regional Language Program provides graduate students, advanced undergraduates, scholars, and professionals intensive individualized instruction in the languages of Eurasia. Participants may in enroll in semester, academic year, or summer programs. All courses are conducted by expert faculty from leading local universities and educational institutions. Students with at least two years of college-level instruction in Russian or the host-country language are eligible to apply to the program. Academic programs are tailored to the individual student's language level and provide approximately fifteen hours per week of in-class instruction in the target language. Courses in history, literature, and politics are also available for advanced speakers. Other program features include peer tutoring, housing with local host families, and graduate- or undergraduate-level academic credit through Bryn Mawr College. Application deadlines: Fall Semester/Academic Year Program: April 1 Spring Semester: October 1 Summer Program: March 1 Applications for the 2008 Fall Semester/2008-09 Academic Year programs are due April 1st. Additional program information and applications are available on the American Councils website, http://www.americancouncils.org/programs.php?program_id=NTA. Fellowships also available for U.S. graduate students, faculty and scholars for advanced language training and field research in Eurasia. Funding for these programs is made available through American Councils from U.S. Department of State (Title VIII) grant support. For more information, please contact: Russian and Eurasian Outbound Programs American Councils for International Education: ACTR/ACCELS 1776 Massachusetts Ave., NW, Suite 700 Washington, DC 20036 Telephone: (202) 833-7522 Email: outbound at americancouncils.org Website: www.americancouncils.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Fri Mar 21 19:38:24 2008 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:38:24 -0400 Subject: Historical reference? In-Reply-To: <000001c88b0e$860cadc0$0101a8c0@Bitches> Message-ID: Dear Sarah, The use of Rus is circumstantial: it simply means "as ancient Russians used to put it...", and it refers to the fact that in old Russian the verb "zhalet'" (and the underlying sentiment) expressed the tender love, usually that of a woman for a man (husband, son, etc.), although not exclusively. Some Slavic language - I am afraid to be mistaken here, but I think it is Belorussian - still uses it in that sense. I vaguely recall a popular Soviet song, whose lyrics stated explicitly that a woman says "zhaleiu" in the sense of "liubliu." As for a good English translation, I think the use of Middle English would be best, but as far as modern terms, it would go something like "Do you care for your man?" - "Sure thing, my heart is breaking for him..." Inna Caron -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah Hurst Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:46 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] Historical reference? I'm trying to translate the following sentence, which refers to someone who lost his legs in World War II. Does anyone know what this reference to Rus is about and how it might be conveyed in English? А то, что увечье, так, может, оно делало его еще более привлекательным, говорилось ведь на Руси: <Любишь своего?> - <Жалею, вестимо...> Sarah Hurst No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From caron.4 at OSU.EDU Fri Mar 21 19:49:36 2008 From: caron.4 at OSU.EDU (Inna Caron) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 15:49:36 -0400 Subject: Historical reference - "zhalet'" In-Reply-To: <000001c88b0e$860cadc0$0101a8c0@Bitches> Message-ID: Hmm, the first message for some reason posted blank... I think the same happened recently to Sasha Smith. Dear Sarah, The use of Rus is circumstantial: it simply means "as ancient Russians used to put it...", and it refers to the fact that in old Russian the verb "zhalet'" (and the underlying sentiment) expressed the tender love, usually that of a woman for a man (husband, son, etc.), although not exclusively. Some Slavic language - I am afraid to be mistaken here, but I think it is Belorussian - still uses it in that sense. I vaguely recall a popular Soviet song, whose lyrics stated explicitly that a woman says "zhaleiu" in the sense of "liubliu." As for a good English translation, I think the use of Middle English would be best, but as far as modern terms, it would go something like "Do you care for your man?" - "Sure thing, my heart is breaking for him..." Inna Caron -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah Hurst Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:46 AM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] Historical reference? I'm trying to translate the following sentence, which refers to someone who lost his legs in World War II. Does anyone know what this reference to Rus is about and how it might be conveyed in English? А то, что увечье, так, может, оно делало его еще более привлекательным, говорилось ведь на Руси: <Любишь своего?> - <Жалею, вестимо...> Sarah Hurst No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.7/1335 - Release Date: 3/19/2008 9:54 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU Fri Mar 21 20:14:10 2008 From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:14:10 -0400 Subject: Historical reference? In-Reply-To: <021901c88b8b$208e2280$61aa6780$@4@osu.edu> Message-ID: Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8), transliteration at the end. Bob Rothstein Галина Беспалова: Жалею – значит, я люблю Меня не надо убеждать – По одному иль хором дружным – В том, что жалеть других не нужно, Что это может унижать. Искони века на Руси Обычай был у наших предков, Коль женщина полюбит крепко, О чувствах ты её спроси – Она ответит тихо, млея: «Тебя я, милый мой, жалею… Храни нас, Господи, спаси!» Вот и меня порасспроси – От своего не отступлю – Жалею – значит, я люблю! Inna Caron wrote: > The use of Rus is circumstantial: it simply means "as ancient Russians used > to put it...", and it refers to the fact that in old Russian the verb > "zhalet'" (and the underlying sentiment) expressed the tender love, usually > that of a woman for a man (husband, son, etc.), although not exclusively. > Some Slavic language - I am afraid to be mistaken here, but I think it is > Belorussian - still uses it in that sense. I vaguely recall a popular Soviet > song, whose lyrics stated explicitly that a woman says "zhaleiu" in the > sense of "liubliu." > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list > [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah Hurst > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:46 AM > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Subject: [SEELANGS] Historical reference? > > I'm trying to translate the following sentence, which refers to someone who > lost his legs in World War II. Does anyone know what this reference to Rus > is about and how it might be conveyed in English? > > А то, что увечье, так, может, оно делало его еще более привлекательным, > говорилось ведь на Руси: <Любишь своего?> - <Жалею, вестимо...> > > > > Sarah Hurst > Galina Bespalova: Zhaleiu - znachit, ia liubliu Menia ne nado ubezhdat' - Po odnomu il' khorom druzhnym - V tom, chto zhalet' drugikh ne nuzhno, Chto eto mozhet unizhat'. Iskoni veka na Rusi Obychai byl u nashikh predkov, Kol' zhenshchina poliubit krepko, O chuvstvakh ty ee sprosi - Ona otvetit tikho, mleia: "Tebia ia, milyi moi, zhaleiu... Khrani nas, Gospodi, spasi!" Vot i menia porassprosi - Ot svoego ne otstupliu - Zhaleiu - znachit, ia liubliu! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Fri Mar 21 20:50:46 2008 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:50:46 -0800 Subject: Historical reference? In-Reply-To: <47E41712.5010801@slavic.umass.edu> Message-ID: Ah, these are very helpful explanations, thanks! Sarah Hurst -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Robert A. Rothstein Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:14 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Historical reference? Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8), transliteration at the end. Bob Rothstein Галина Беспалова: Жалею - значит, я люблю Меня не надо убеждать - По одному иль хором дружным - В том, что жалеть других не нужно, Что это может унижать. Искони века на Руси Обычай был у наших предков, Коль женщина полюбит крепко, О чувствах ты её спроси - Она ответит тихо, млея: <Тебя я, милый мой, жалею: Храни нас, Господи, спаси!> Вот и меня порасспроси - От своего не отступлю - Жалею - значит, я люблю! Inna Caron wrote: > The use of Rus is circumstantial: it simply means "as ancient Russians used > to put it...", and it refers to the fact that in old Russian the verb > "zhalet'" (and the underlying sentiment) expressed the tender love, usually > that of a woman for a man (husband, son, etc.), although not exclusively. > Some Slavic language - I am afraid to be mistaken here, but I think it is > Belorussian - still uses it in that sense. I vaguely recall a popular Soviet > song, whose lyrics stated explicitly that a woman says "zhaleiu" in the > sense of "liubliu." > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list > [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Sarah Hurst > Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 12:46 AM > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Subject: [SEELANGS] Historical reference? > > I'm trying to translate the following sentence, which refers to someone who > lost his legs in World War II. Does anyone know what this reference to Rus > is about and how it might be conveyed in English? > > А то, что увечье, так, может, оно делало его еще более привлекательным, > говорилось ведь на Руси: <Любишь своего?> - <Жалею, вестимо...> > > > > Sarah Hurst > Galina Bespalova: Zhaleiu - znachit, ia liubliu Menia ne nado ubezhdat' - Po odnomu il' khorom druzhnym - V tom, chto zhalet' drugikh ne nuzhno, Chto eto mozhet unizhat'. Iskoni veka na Rusi Obychai byl u nashikh predkov, Kol' zhenshchina poliubit krepko, O chuvstvakh ty ee sprosi - Ona otvetit tikho, mleia: "Tebia ia, milyi moi, zhaleiu... Khrani nas, Gospodi, spasi!" Vot i menia porassprosi - Ot svoego ne otstupliu - Zhaleiu - znachit, ia liubliu! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.21.8/1337 - Release Date: 3/20/2008 8:10 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET Fri Mar 21 21:56:50 2008 From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman) Date: Fri, 21 Mar 2008 14:56:50 -0700 Subject: image of the foreigner In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Of minor note - Specific mention is made that Anna Sergeyevna's husband in Dama s sobachkoi is an "obrusevshii nemets" (or maybe it was his grandfather). "No sam on pravoslavnyi." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 18:52:16 -0400 From: Sergey Glebov Subject: Re: SEELANGS Digest - 19 Mar 2008 - Special issue (#2008-111) I wonder, though, why would Shtol'ts be considered a foreigner? J Sergey Glebov Alina Israeli wrote: Germans in Queen of Spades, Turgenev's Asja, Oblomov. There must be more Germans out there, can't think of any others though. Nakanune has a Bulgarian. Povesti Belkina has an Englishwoman, Dubrovskij has a French. Chekhov has Doch' Albiona. Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu Deborah Hoffman, Esq. Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From xmas at UKR.NET Fri Mar 21 22:45:39 2008 From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 00:45:39 +0200 Subject: Cheremsha In-Reply-To: <410AA92E-AA53-4A31-9C3D-F2BA2B4C977B@american.edu> Message-ID: Dear John, you are very welcome. in fact, the Russian Wiki is one of the largest. just today I read a nice piece on Wiki in general in the Language Log (http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005479.html) and I would agree -- in cases when articles are not about politically laden issues (like, say, Ukrainian history or history in general) they tend to be very accurate. besides, Ukrainian Wiki, although not so rich in entries is still a very valuable resource. BTW, concerning cheremsha -- it gives its Ukrainian name which happens to be bear's onion (http://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Черемша): Цибуля ведмежа, левурда (Allium ursinum L.) — багаторічна трав'яниста рослина родини лілійних з довгастою цибулиною, оточеною перетинчастою піхвою. Стебло прямостояче, негіллясте, циліндричне, зверху кутасте, тригранне, з двома прикореневими листками, голе. Вся рослина має часниковий запах. With best regards, Maria Від кого: John Schillinger Dear Maria- Many thanks! For that matter, I wasn't aware of Wikipidia по-русски!     ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From xmas at UKR.NET Fri Mar 21 23:23:58 2008 From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 01:23:58 +0200 Subject: about borsht Message-ID: Dear colleagues, I was looking for etymology of the word 'borsht' and found a really interesting article about the history of the dish (it has tons of hisotry in it and a little bit of literature :) . I qoute it below. it was published in 2005 in the newspaper Fakty. if you are hungry you better not read it right away. Знаменитому национальному блюду Украины борщу исполнилось 300 лет http://infokiev.com.ua/content/view/84/51/ Еще Котляревский в "Энеиде" заметил: украинцу жить без борща просто невозможно. Стоит не поесть его дня три, как организм начинает протестовать и все тело охватывает жуткая "ломка": "Борщів як три не поденькуєш, на моторошні засердчить..." Как ни странно, но это знаменитое национальное блюдо не такое уж древнее. А появление его сопровождалось упорной борьбой между сторонниками ветхозаветной простоты в питании и "чревоугодниками" - гурманами, приверженцами казацкой кухни. Победили гурманы. Спасаясь от голода, казаки "выели все пригородные огороды" Настоящему ценителю борща важно, чтобы отвар был рубиново-красным и прозрачным, а капельки жира на его поверхности имели оранжевый оттенок. Они получаются только при правильном пассеровании моркови на сале. Для сохранения этого "общего цветового решения" существует множество ухищрений. Правда, борщ искрится рубином в тарелке совсем недолго, пока хозяйка не положит туда ложку сметаны, и тогда поверхность борща приобретает аппетитный пастельно-розовый цвет. А все богатство вкусовых ощущений подчинено в борще одному - вкусу свекольного отвара. Собственно говоря, вся эта кулинарная феерия и строится с одной единственной целью - подчеркнуть неуловимость оттенков вкуса столового буряка, возвысить этот скромный огородный овощ с ярким, но очень неустойчивым вкусом, который так трудно сочетается с другими продуктами. Украинский историк культурных растений Григорий Гордиенко в своем фундаментальном исследовании, вышедшем в Мюнхене, утверждает, что свекла упоминалась еще в "Изборнике Св ятослава" (1073 год) как "сеукла", но тогда люди не знали, на что она способна. Настоящий творческий подход к свекле нашли украинские казаки в 1683 году, во время знаменитой осады Вены турками. Спеша на выручку "цисарской столицы", казаки не успели позаботиться о провианте и, как пишет историк-эмигрант, спасаясь от голода, "выели все пригородные огороды". Вот тогда-то свеклу стали обрабатывать правильно - перед варкой быстро поджаривать на сале. Процедура пассерования, казавшаяся европейцам излишней, позволяла сохранить натуральный вкус и цвет свеклы в бульоне и открывала путь к познанию ее необыкновенных кулинарных свойств. Добавление к поджарке овощных или мясных отваров и зелени и привело к появлению того блюда, которое ныне известно во всем мире как украинский борщ. Гордиенко полагает, что слово "буряк" (украинское наименование столовой свеклы) впервые появилось в литературе в 1705 году. И, очевидно, не будет большого греха, если мы предложим считать именно этот год началом эпохи борщей. Итак, украинскому борщу 300 лет. Круглая дата, своеобразный гастрономический юбилей! Старые казацкие кулинары, знавшие кухонные секреты татар и турок, подвергали ломтики свеклы предварительной обработке на каленом свином жире с добавкой уксуса или сухого вина. Отдельно пассеровали морковь, лук и петрушку и только после этого бросали их довариваться в кипящий овощной или мясной бульон, щедро заправленный салом и крупой. Казацкий борщ подкисливали зелеными яблоками, тем же сухим вином, но чаще всего - свекольной закваской. Он обладал таким ярким и устойчивым вкусом, что легко выдерживал многие добавки и примеси. В него добавляли капусту и отдельно сваренную фасоль, кружочки колбасы, немецкие сосиски, ветчину, обжаренных в муке карасей и оливки. Борщ варили на постном овощном бульоне, на говядине со свининой, на рыбе, курице и даже гусе. Но борщ всегда оставался борщом, а все эти вариации лишь обогащали его специфические вкус и аромат. За три столетия борщ пережил множество новшеств. Во второй половине XIX века свекольную закваску ("сыривець") стали заменять томатной пастой, но многие киевские любители и сейчас заквашивают на своих кухнях свеклу. Первые постные борщи готовились на конопляном ("деревянном") масле, поскольку подсолнечного ("олии") тогда еще не изобрели. Капуста была всегда. Хотя и странно представить себе красный борщ без картофеля, тем не менее в старину его готовили с пшеном. И до сих пор в Киеве не перевелись кулинары, которые считают, что картофель портит вкус настоящего борща, и ставят на стол мисочки с гречневой или рисовой кашей. Единого украинского борща у нас не было и нет. Существуют борщи черниговские - с "турецкими" кабачками, киевские - с "нутряным салом", чесноком и свекольным квасом, полтавские - с курицей и галушками, одесские - на гусе, львовские - с обжаренными на масле кусочками сосисок. А еще - сборные (с ветчиной и печеной свеклой) и простые, которые далеко не каждый сумеет приготовить как следует. Словом, борщей великое множество, на каждой киевской улице их десятки. Всех за жизнь не попробуешь. А сколько их было до нас, никто не считал. И можно только догадываться, какими были первые украинские борщи. Но еще в начале ХХ столетия в Киеве в Сочельник подавали особый постный борщ, который назывался "гетманским" и в котором действительно проступали черты архаической кухни. Современники называли Ивана Скоропадского "ясновельможным гетманом борщей" Зимний пост подходил к концу. Постная пища успела всем приесться. Взоры едоков с мольбой обращались к поварам. Ждали чуда. И оно действительно появлялось в виде старинного "гетманского" борща. Говорят, что канву его рецепта создал никто иной, как знаменитый кулинар гетман Иван Скоропадский, правивший Левобережной Украиной с 1708 года, а до того исполнявший многие дипломатические поручения украинской державы в Польше, Турции, Крыму и России. Готовился знаменитый рождественский борщ на постном масле, но весь его "аскетизм" на этом и заканчивался. Многодневное воздержание от скоромной еды "ясновельможный гетман борщей" (так называли Скоропадского современники) щедро вознаграждал праздничным изобилием разных, хоть и постных, но очень вкусных вещей. Радости постников, причащаемых к бурным гастрономическим фантазиям старого гетмана, прекрасно описал в своих воспоминаниях незабвенный киевлянин Александр Вертинский: "В семь часов подавали ужин. На первое украинский, или, как его называли, "гетманский" борщ. Подавали его в холодном виде... В нем плавали "балабушки" - маленькие шарики из молотого щучьего мяса, начиненные рублеными сухими грибами, потом маслины и оливы, потом жаренные опять же в подсолнечном масле небольшие карасики, вываленные в муке. Еще к борщу подавались жареные постные пирожки с кислой капустой, или с кашей, или с грибами". В поваренных книгах часто упоминаются "гетманские" борщи. Большинство из них к Ивану Скоропадскому отношения не имеют. Это просто борщи старой Гетманщины XVII-XVIII столетий, выдаваемые теперь за изделия великого мастера. Но попадаются и подлинные шедевры. Помимо борща, упоминаемого в мемуарах Вертинского, нам удалось обнаружить в одной из современных кулинарных книг еще и "борщ украинский восточный", который также можно причислить к подлинным "гетманским". Он готовится из трех отдельно сваренных бульонов. Один из них костно-говяжий, другой овощной (с кардамоном, помидорами, свеклой и яйцом), третий - из телятины, говядины и свинины с картошкой и сушеными грибами (сморчками). В бульонную смесь добавляют свекольный квас, те же сморчки, спелые вишни, нашинкованную капусту и печеную свеклу. Заправляется этот фантастический борщ старым салом с чесноком и зеленью. Изобретая свои борщи, гетман, конечно же, думал и о затейливости, и об изысканности. Кухня его времени обойтись без этого просто не могла. Но в то же время он знал, что для многих его подданных борщ является единственной ежедневной пищей, и вкладывал в свои затеи вполне практический смысл. Его богатые и пышные борщи должны были возместить украинцам то, чего не было в их повседневном рационе. Борщ, оставаясь собою, вмещал в себя и такие продукты, которые обычно входили в состав праздничных блюд. Он стал одним из элементов культуры рококо, украшавших обыденную жизнь, вносивших в нее маленькие удовольствия и прихоти. Украинские дворяне жили на широкую ногу и предпочитали казацкую кухню В конце концов и Киев присоединился к гурманской жизни Гетманщины. Произошло это, когда правительство учредило Киевское наместничество, в которое вошла часть Черниговщины и вся Полтавщина. На Печерске появились присутственные места. Из бывшей Гетманщины потянулись к Днепру обозы с домашней утварью малорусского шляхетства, которому надлежало теперь проживать по месту службы в Киеве. Украинские дворяне жили там на широкую ногу, отличались веселым нравом, общительностью и гостеприимством. Одевались по запорожскому обычаю несколько вольно и небрежно, а в еде, как и надлежало вчерашним казакам, предпочитали всему другому борщ и галушки, "сиченики" и "крученики", "шинку", колбасы, сало. Они, как шутил в своих "Воспоминаниях" Вигель, "нежно любили свиней". С отменой наместничества часть нового украинского панства откочевала назад в свою Гетманщину, но те, кто привык к Киеву и успел обзавестись здесь хозяйством, остались. Киевляне узнавали их по языку, песням, одежде и пристрастию к казацкой кухне. Эти люди сыграли свою роль в жизни города. Благодаря им Киев сохранял свою украинскую старину даже в худшие времена. Горожане тянулись к ним душой и многое прощали за их преданность дедовским традициям. Историк Антонович и писатель Нечуй-Левицкий подражали украинским дворянам в быту, Шевченко учился их манере обедать. "У меня в Киеве жили родные - небогатые люди, но считавшие за удовольствие принять гостя чем Бог послал, - вспоминал писатель Александр Афанасьев-Чужбинский. - У тетушки в особенности подавали превосходный постный обед, какого действительно не найти и у самого дорогого ресторатора. По старосветскому обычаю, старики соблюдали все посты, и я в одну из сред или пятниц познакомил с ними Шевченко. Нас, разумеется, не отпустили без обеда. Вся обстановка уже показала Тарасу Григорьевичу, что нас не ожидали никакие церемонии. Старик дядя, коренной полтавец, помнил все малейшие обычаи родимого гостеприимства и, произнеся известную фразу: "По сiй мовi будьмо здоровi", - выпил прежде сам рюмку настойки, а потом предложил гостю. Что очень понравилось последнему, и он, принимаясь за рюмку, проговорил свою обычную поговорку: - Як то тi п'яницч п'ють оцю погань, нехай уже ми, люди привичнi. Но когда Тарас Григорьевич съел несколько ложек борща, он не утерпел не признаться, что если и ел подобный борщ, то, вероятно, очень давно, да и вряд ли когда случалось пробовать. Борщ этот был с сухими карасями, с свежей капустой и какими-то особенными приправами. Подали потом пшенную кашу, варенную на раковой ухе с укропом, и Шевченко совершенно растаял. Старики утешались, что могли доставить удовольствие такому дорогому гостю, а он пришел в необыкновенно хорошее расположение духа, и мы просидели, я думаю, за столом часа три. После того несколько раз, по желанию Шевченко, мы ходили обедать в постные дни к старикам, только, бывало, я заранее предварю тетушку, и постный борщ удавался как нельзя лучше. Даже нынешнею зимою (свою последнюю зиму 1861 года Шевченко провел в Петербурге. - Авт.) в ресторане Вольфа напомнил он мне как-то о наших постных обедах на Крещатике..." Источник: Анатолий МАКАРОВ, газета "ФАКТЫ" (the mentioned Vienna siege in which the Cossacks participated was the very event which brought coffee a-la Vienne  to Europe and made Austro-Hungarians coffee addicts. it was one of the Cossacks who brought the news of the German troops coming to help Vienna --http://observer.sd.org.ua/news.php?id=13849 ) With best regards, Maria   ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Sat Mar 22 09:20:03 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 09:20:03 -0000 Subject: about borsht Message-ID: Рецептов борща уйма. Сколько хозяек - столько и рецептов! John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Dmytrieva" To: Sent: Friday, March 21, 2008 11:23 PM Subject: [SEELANGS] about borsht > Dear colleagues, > I was looking for etymology of the word 'borsht' and found a really > interesting article about the history of the dish (it has tons of hisotry > in it and a little bit of literature :) . I qoute it below. it was > published in 2005 in the newspaper Fakty. > if you are hungry you better not read it right away. > > Знаменитому национальному блюду Украины борщу исполнилось 300 лет > http://infokiev.com.ua/content/view/84/51/ > > Еще Котляревский в "Энеиде" заметил: украинцу жить без борща просто > невозможно. Стоит не поесть его дня три, как организм начинает > протестовать и все тело охватывает жуткая "ломка": "Борщів як три не > поденькуєш, на моторошні засердчить..." Как ни странно, но это знаменитое > национальное блюдо не такое уж древнее. А появление его сопровождалось > упорной борьбой между сторонниками ветхозаветной простоты в питании и > "чревоугодниками" - гурманами, приверженцами казацкой кухни. Победили > гурманы. > > Спасаясь от голода, казаки "выели все пригородные огороды" > > Настоящему ценителю борща важно, чтобы отвар был рубиново-красным и > прозрачным, а капельки жира на его поверхности имели оранжевый оттенок. > Они получаются только при правильном пассеровании моркови на сале. Для > сохранения этого "общего цветового решения" существует множество > ухищрений. Правда, борщ искрится рубином в тарелке совсем недолго, пока > хозяйка не положит туда ложку сметаны, и тогда поверхность борща > приобретает аппетитный пастельно-розовый цвет. А все богатство вкусовых > ощущений подчинено в борще одному - вкусу свекольного отвара. Собственно > говоря, вся эта кулинарная феерия и строится с одной единственной целью - > подчеркнуть неуловимость оттенков вкуса столового буряка, возвысить этот > скромный огородный овощ с ярким, но очень неустойчивым вкусом, который так > трудно сочетается с другими продуктами. Украинский историк культурных > растений Григорий Гордиенко в своем фундаментальном исследовании, вышедшем > в Мюнхене, утверждает, что свекла упоминалась еще в "Изборнике Св > ятослава" (1073 год) как "сеукла", но тогда люди не знали, на что она > способна. > > Настоящий творческий подход к свекле нашли украинские казаки в 1683 году, > во время знаменитой осады Вены турками. Спеша на выручку "цисарской > столицы", казаки не успели позаботиться о провианте и, как пишет > историк-эмигрант, спасаясь от голода, "выели все пригородные огороды". Вот > тогда-то свеклу стали обрабатывать правильно - перед варкой быстро > поджаривать на сале. Процедура пассерования, казавшаяся европейцам > излишней, позволяла сохранить натуральный вкус и цвет свеклы в бульоне и > открывала путь к познанию ее необыкновенных кулинарных свойств. > > Добавление к поджарке овощных или мясных отваров и зелени и привело к > появлению того блюда, которое ныне известно во всем мире как украинский > борщ. Гордиенко полагает, что слово "буряк" (украинское наименование > столовой свеклы) впервые появилось в литературе в 1705 году. И, очевидно, > не будет большого греха, если мы предложим считать именно этот год началом > эпохи борщей. > > Итак, украинскому борщу 300 лет. Круглая дата, своеобразный > гастрономический юбилей! > > Старые казацкие кулинары, знавшие кухонные секреты татар и турок, > подвергали ломтики свеклы предварительной обработке на каленом свином жире > с добавкой уксуса или сухого вина. Отдельно пассеровали морковь, лук и > петрушку и только после этого бросали их довариваться в кипящий овощной > или мясной бульон, щедро заправленный салом и крупой. Казацкий борщ > подкисливали зелеными яблоками, тем же сухим вином, но чаще всего - > свекольной закваской. Он обладал таким ярким и устойчивым вкусом, что > легко выдерживал многие добавки и примеси. В него добавляли капусту и > отдельно сваренную фасоль, кружочки колбасы, немецкие сосиски, ветчину, > обжаренных в муке карасей и оливки. > > Борщ варили на постном овощном бульоне, на говядине со свининой, на рыбе, > курице и даже гусе. Но борщ всегда оставался борщом, а все эти вариации > лишь обогащали его специфические вкус и аромат. > > За три столетия борщ пережил множество новшеств. Во второй половине XIX > века свекольную закваску ("сыривець") стали заменять томатной пастой, но > многие киевские любители и сейчас заквашивают на своих кухнях свеклу. > > Первые постные борщи готовились на конопляном ("деревянном") масле, > поскольку подсолнечного ("олии") тогда еще не изобрели. Капуста была > всегда. Хотя и странно представить себе красный борщ без картофеля, тем не > менее в старину его готовили с пшеном. И до сих пор в Киеве не перевелись > кулинары, которые считают, что картофель портит вкус настоящего борща, и > ставят на стол мисочки с гречневой или рисовой кашей. > > Единого украинского борща у нас не было и нет. Существуют борщи > черниговские - с "турецкими" кабачками, киевские - с "нутряным салом", > чесноком и свекольным квасом, полтавские - с курицей и галушками, > одесские - на гусе, львовские - с обжаренными на масле кусочками сосисок. > А еще - сборные (с ветчиной и печеной свеклой) и простые, которые далеко > не каждый сумеет приготовить как следует. Словом, борщей великое > множество, на каждой киевской улице их десятки. Всех за жизнь не > попробуешь. > > А сколько их было до нас, никто не считал. И можно только догадываться, > какими были первые украинские борщи. Но еще в начале ХХ столетия в Киеве в > Сочельник подавали особый постный борщ, который назывался "гетманским" и в > котором действительно проступали черты архаической кухни. > > Современники называли Ивана Скоропадского "ясновельможным гетманом борщей" > > Зимний пост подходил к концу. Постная пища успела всем приесться. Взоры > едоков с мольбой обращались к поварам. Ждали чуда. И оно действительно > появлялось в виде старинного "гетманского" борща. Говорят, что канву его > рецепта создал никто иной, как знаменитый кулинар гетман Иван > Скоропадский, правивший Левобережной Украиной с 1708 года, а до того > исполнявший многие дипломатические поручения украинской державы в Польше, > Турции, Крыму и России. Готовился знаменитый рождественский борщ на > постном масле, но весь его "аскетизм" на этом и заканчивался. Многодневное > воздержание от скоромной еды "ясновельможный гетман борщей" (так называли > Скоропадского современники) щедро вознаграждал праздничным изобилием > разных, хоть и постных, но очень вкусных вещей. Радости постников, > причащаемых к бурным гастрономическим фантазиям старого гетмана, прекрасно > описал в своих воспоминаниях незабвенный киевлянин Александр Вертинский: > > "В семь часов подавали ужин. На первое украинский, или, как его называли, > "гетманский" борщ. Подавали его в холодном виде... В нем плавали > "балабушки" - маленькие шарики из молотого щучьего мяса, начиненные > рублеными сухими грибами, потом маслины и оливы, потом жаренные опять же в > подсолнечном масле небольшие карасики, вываленные в муке. Еще к борщу > подавались жареные постные пирожки с кислой капустой, или с кашей, или с > грибами". > > В поваренных книгах часто упоминаются "гетманские" борщи. Большинство из > них к Ивану Скоропадскому отношения не имеют. Это просто борщи старой > Гетманщины XVII-XVIII столетий, выдаваемые теперь за изделия великого > мастера. Но попадаются и подлинные шедевры. Помимо борща, упоминаемого в > мемуарах Вертинского, нам удалось обнаружить в одной из современных > кулинарных книг еще и "борщ украинский восточный", который также можно > причислить к подлинным "гетманским". Он готовится из трех отдельно > сваренных бульонов. Один из них костно-говяжий, другой овощной (с > кардамоном, помидорами, свеклой и яйцом), третий - из телятины, говядины и > свинины с картошкой и сушеными грибами (сморчками). В бульонную смесь > добавляют свекольный квас, те же сморчки, спелые вишни, нашинкованную > капусту и печеную свеклу. Заправляется этот фантастический борщ старым > салом с чесноком и зеленью. > > Изобретая свои борщи, гетман, конечно же, думал и о затейливости, и об > изысканности. Кухня его времени обойтись без этого просто не могла. Но в > то же время он знал, что для многих его подданных борщ является > единственной ежедневной пищей, и вкладывал в свои затеи вполне > практический смысл. Его богатые и пышные борщи должны были возместить > украинцам то, чего не было в их повседневном рационе. Борщ, оставаясь > собою, вмещал в себя и такие продукты, которые обычно входили в состав > праздничных блюд. Он стал одним из элементов культуры рококо, украшавших > обыденную жизнь, вносивших в нее маленькие удовольствия и прихоти. > > Украинские дворяне жили на широкую ногу и предпочитали казацкую кухню > > В конце концов и Киев присоединился к гурманской жизни Гетманщины. > > Произошло это, когда правительство учредило Киевское наместничество, в > которое вошла часть Черниговщины и вся Полтавщина. На Печерске появились > присутственные места. Из бывшей Гетманщины потянулись к Днепру обозы с > домашней утварью малорусского шляхетства, которому надлежало теперь > проживать по месту службы в Киеве. > > Украинские дворяне жили там на широкую ногу, отличались веселым нравом, > общительностью и гостеприимством. Одевались по запорожскому обычаю > несколько вольно и небрежно, а в еде, как и надлежало вчерашним казакам, > предпочитали всему другому борщ и галушки, "сиченики" и "крученики", > "шинку", колбасы, сало. Они, как шутил в своих "Воспоминаниях" Вигель, > "нежно любили свиней". > > С отменой наместничества часть нового украинского панства откочевала назад > в свою Гетманщину, но те, кто привык к Киеву и успел обзавестись здесь > хозяйством, остались. Киевляне узнавали их по языку, песням, одежде и > пристрастию к казацкой кухне. Эти люди сыграли свою роль в жизни города. > Благодаря им Киев сохранял свою украинскую старину даже в худшие времена. > Горожане тянулись к ним душой и многое прощали за их преданность дедовским > традициям. Историк Антонович и писатель Нечуй-Левицкий подражали > украинским дворянам в быту, Шевченко учился их манере обедать. > > "У меня в Киеве жили родные - небогатые люди, но считавшие за удовольствие > принять гостя чем Бог послал, - вспоминал писатель Александр > Афанасьев-Чужбинский. - У тетушки в особенности подавали превосходный > постный обед, какого действительно не найти и у самого дорогого > ресторатора. По старосветскому обычаю, старики соблюдали все посты, и я в > одну из сред или пятниц познакомил с ними Шевченко. Нас, разумеется, не > отпустили без обеда. Вся обстановка уже показала Тарасу Григорьевичу, что > нас не ожидали никакие церемонии. Старик дядя, коренной полтавец, помнил > все малейшие обычаи родимого гостеприимства и, произнеся известную фразу: > "По сiй мовi будьмо здоровi", - выпил прежде сам рюмку настойки, а потом > предложил гостю. Что очень понравилось последнему, и он, принимаясь за > рюмку, проговорил свою обычную поговорку: > > - Як то тi п'яницч п'ють оцю погань, нехай уже ми, люди привичнi. > > Но когда Тарас Григорьевич съел несколько ложек борща, он не утерпел не > признаться, что если и ел подобный борщ, то, вероятно, очень давно, да и > вряд ли когда случалось пробовать. Борщ этот был с сухими карасями, с > свежей капустой и какими-то особенными приправами. Подали потом пшенную > кашу, варенную на раковой ухе с укропом, и Шевченко совершенно растаял. > Старики утешались, что могли доставить удовольствие такому дорогому гостю, > а он пришел в необыкновенно хорошее расположение духа, и мы просидели, я > думаю, за столом часа три. > > После того несколько раз, по желанию Шевченко, мы ходили обедать в постные > дни к старикам, только, бывало, я заранее предварю тетушку, и постный борщ > удавался как нельзя лучше. Даже нынешнею зимою (свою последнюю зиму 1861 > года Шевченко провел в Петербурге. - Авт.) в ресторане Вольфа напомнил он > мне как-то о наших постных обедах на Крещатике..." > > Источник: Анатолий МАКАРОВ, газета "ФАКТЫ" > > (the mentioned Vienna siege in which the Cossacks participated was the > very event which brought coffee a-la Vienne to Europe and made > Austro-Hungarians coffee addicts. it was one of the Cossacks who brought > the news of the German troops coming to help > Vienna --http://observer.sd.org.ua/news.php?id=13849 ) > > With best regards, > Maria > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Mar 22 12:22:56 2008 From: a_strat at HOTMAIL.COM (Alex) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:22:56 +0200 Subject: Rudyard Kipling in Ukrainain translation Message-ID: Hello there! Accidentally got the following link and decided to share it with all: http://poetry.uazone.net/kipling/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Sat Mar 22 12:36:17 2008 From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 12:36:17 -0000 Subject: Ten Things You Didn't Know About Russia Part 1 Message-ID: TEN THINGS YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT RUSSIA PART 1 _____ Dear Colleagues, Here is the complete summary so far, exactly as sent to the SEELANGS list. THANK YOU ALL FOR TAKING PART. Andrew Jameson, Malvern UK, Good Friday, 21 March 2008 Initial request: I've been asked to write a not-too-serious lecture for the Annual General Meeting of a society concerned with Russian and Soviet studies. I'm calling it "Ten things you didn't know about Russia". Such things as: St Cyril didn't create the Cyrillic alphabet etc. etc. I'm wondering if you have any unusual or bizarre facts about Russia which you would like to share? Andrew Jameson If I were giving such a talk, I'd be tempted to include "Vodka is actually Polish." Though it's not a linguistic fact on the surface, discussing the word's (very simple) etymology and perhaps the different diminutives Russian has to use to distinguish "vodochka" and "voditsa" -- and perhaps the connections with eau de vie, aquavit and whiskey? -- does offer some linguistic satisfaction. Wishing you enjoyment as you put the talk together! Sibelan Of course that the October Revolution didn't take place in October (or it did, but then got celebrated in November) Nathan Longan Very few people realize the true size - and climate range - of Siberia. My civ students always assume that it's perpetually cold and one big prison camp somewhere to the north of Moscow Nicole 1. Matreshki came from Japan. 2. The greatest Russian poet is 1/8 Black (octoroon). 3. The last Russian czar was 1/256 Russian by blood. 4. St. Basil cathedral is the most un-Russian church, more like Turkish, and for good reason: it was built on the occasion of the taking of Kazan. 5. It was not the Bolsheviks who abolished the monarchy. 6. Peter the Great usurped the power from his older brother Ivan V. 7. Russia covers 11 time zones. Alina Israeli "Considering that the defining line in a family's history was its patrilineal descent as it was just about anywhere else in the western world, Pushkin's preoccupation with his African ancestry is all the more telling since Ibrahim Gannibal was his maternal great-grandfather. Furthermore, Nadja, his mother, was through her own mother, a descendant of the same Pushkin forbear from whom her husband Serge descended. This is genetically interesting since it explains why the poet, who is generally but mistakenly accepted as an octoroon, looks perceptibly blacker." From PBS/WGBH's Frontline, "The Blurred Racial Lines of Famous Families" Tom Nicholson How about (off the cuff) "The name 'Russian' originally referred to Swedish Vikings"? "The first ten (roughly) pages of "War and Peace" are in French"? "Russia and Scotland are the only countries in Europe with three kings called Alexander"? "Dutch nearly became an official language in Russia" colkitto It might be of interest to know that the first complete translation of the Bible in Russia was done in Novgorod in the 1490'S'(?) under aegis of Archbishop Gennadij and that the translation was done from the VULGATE with the aid of a Roman Catholic monk ( Dominican?, I'm not sure)> I'm relating from memory here so the details have to checked, but the main statement is true. prolland This is a convoluted non-logic, which would not be accepted in an undergraduate paper. The fact that Nadezhda Osipovna Gannibal was related to Pushkins on her mother side does not diminish the fact that she was a grand- daughter of Abram Petrovich Gannibal on her father's side, one does not negate the other. See the chart: See the chart: http://www.as-pushkin.ru/index.php?cnt=4 and also: http://www.genery.com/ru/drevo/images/pushkin_big.gif [Note from AJ: I hope these have transferred correctly, you may need to adjust these addresses] It's Pushkin's blood that got infused into him twice but it does not additionally dilute the Gannibal's blood. Someone has to learn to count fractions there. (There was recently a report that Americans do not understand fractions.) Alina Israeli Can I just add that calculating fractions of blood percentages and using terms like "octoroon" sounds very racist and it would make a lot more sense just to say that Pushkin was descended from an African slave. Sarah Hurst Agreed, the term is archaic and implies derision. Was just forwarding along the PBS quote for discussion. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/pushkingenealogy .html Tom Nicholson I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Red Square isn't red, and never was. --Loren True, or that St. Basil's was originally painted white, and remained so for quite a while before it became as colorful as it is today. Devin Connolly Russia produces some 12% of the world's aluminum, controls 20% of the world gem stone market, contains a third of the world's unmined diamonds, about a quarter (maybe more) of the world's unmined gold, and supplies 8% of the world's uranium needs. More info on that sort of thing here: http://www.sras.org/library_resource_export_russia You might also mention something about the fact that Russia is #3 in software outsourcing, was also #3 in IPOs (by money raised) in the first half of 2007, and Moscow is this year's hottest location for opening new retail locations in Europe (and St. Pete is number #2). In less glittering news, Russia is #2 in the production of email SPAM (the US is still #1) and #1 in the production of Malware (harmful programs like viruses). Oh, and the wall around Red Square looks pretty red to me and reds or red hues are the dominant motif there - the real story is the fact that "red" and "beautiful" used to be the same word in Russian. Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org Someone sent this to me off-list. And Christmas is after the New Year. Another thing I learned during a semester trip to then the USSR, from a US diplomat, was that Moscow and (then) Leningrad were the third- and fourth- largest cities in Europe, after London and Paris (resp.). That really caught my attention at the time. Someone correct me if I was misinformed. --Loren More things you (probably) didn't know about Russia: Russia originated: the first multi-engine airplane the first flight over the North Pole the first fleet of strategic bombers the use of airplanes to promote diplomacy the idea of employing airplanes to conduct terrorist attacks. Alina Israeli wrote: 7. Russia covers 11 time zones. These include: Paleolithic, Mesolithic, Neolithic, Copper, Bronze, Iron, ancient, middle, early modern, modern, and postmodern, ...all at the same time....David L. Cooper I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a middle-class suburb with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar jobs. It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant churches, and a Catholic church, I believe. Jules Levin Before 2004, when the Chita-Khabarovsk "Highway" was officially opened, you could not drive from Moscow to Vladivostok. And even now it's not paved the entire way. Emily Saunders The immensity of Siberia means that if you stand on the coast of the US state of Maine, you are closer to Moscow than your colleague standing on the eastern coast of Siberia. Within this immense landmass lies the world's deepest (1,620 metres) fresh water lake. Lake Baikal holds some 20% of the world's surface fresh water - if drained, it would take the water of all five US-Canadian Great Lakes (Ontario, Erie, Huron, Michigan, and Superior) to refill it. Over 300 rivers and streams flow into Baikal, but only one (the Angara) flows out from the lake. William Kerr Not to mention Russia gave us the periodic table of elements, the concept of classical (psychological) conditioning, the first satellite, first artificial heart, and the AK-47. More on this here: http://www.sras.org/science_in_russia_and_the_soviet_union Josh Wilson Not to mention the best WW II battle tank--the T-34. Jules Levin Ekaterina II wasn't Russian...Katarina Peitlova-Tocci The largest fresh water lake on the planet, with its own unique species of flora and fauna John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a multi-ethnic and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and Catholic churches did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native subjects of the Empire were probably the people who mainly attended them. Felix Corley The immensity of Siberia means that if you stand on the coast of the US state of Maine, you are closer to Moscow than your colleague standing on the eastern coast of Siberia. Within this immense landmass lies the world's deepest (1,620 metres) fresh water lake. Lake Baikal holds some 20% of the world's surface fresh water - if drained, it would take the water of all five US-Canadian Great Lakes (Ontario, Erie, Huron, Michigan, and Superior) to refill it. Over 300 rivers and streams flow into Baikal, but only one (the Angara) flows out from the lake. William Kerr Koc Universitesi Istanbul ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Sat Mar 22 12:36:17 2008 From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 12:36:17 -0000 Subject: Ten Things You Didn't Know About Russia Part 2 Message-ID: TEN THINGS YOU DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT RUSSIA PART 2 I find this conversation very very interesting I don't know if people consider it odd, but places mentioned in Crime and Punishment are still very much there in St. Petersburg. Sohail Abdullah “The largest fresh water lake on the planet, with its own unique species of flora and fauna John Langran” furthermore, it throws accepted ideas of "biodiversity ' for a loop, in that it is located far from the tropics and is therefore important as an item of general knowledge colkitto ... and if you believe the court gossip, and some historians, her husband wasn't the father of Paul -- a courtier by the name of Sergei Saltykov seems to be the likely candidate --, which would mean that the Romanov bloodline ended long before the dynasty did. Valentino, Russell There is also a well-researched list, with far more than the variety of trivia (interesting trivia, of course) collected here: Steven Marks, How Russia Shaped the Modern World: From Art to Antisemitism, Ballet to Bolshevism (and those are only the As and Bs). A couple of examples of particular interest from that source: Kropotkin's influence on the city green movement (through a variety of intermediaries); Tolstoy's influence on the U.S. civil rights movement (again through middle terms, like Ghandi); the particularly virulent form of antisemitism that came out of Russia at the end of the 19th beginning of the 20th cc. that produced the Black Hundreds and the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, still easy to find in popular sources; the Tolstoy-Stanislavsky influence on the method acting of Brando, DeNiro, et al. The book's weak point is its short synopses of the works of various thinkers, which can sometimes be reductive, but it is especially good at tracing influences around the world, e.g., Bakunin in Japan, Dostoevsky in Egypt, Latin America, and so on. Kropotkin's doctrine of cooperationism, rather than competition, as the guiding principle of evolution (which Marks explores) ties in with another, oft-neglected but excellent study: Daniel P. Todes, Darwin Without Malthus: the Struggle for Existence in Evolutionary Thought, which advances the thesis that Russian biologists, observing the ecosystems of the steppe, created the discipline of ecology at the end of the 19th century. Valentino, Russell [russell-valentino at UIOWA.EDU] > Ekaterina II wasn't Russian...> Well NO ONE at the head of any European monarchy was purely anything, since rather than marry minor local nobility or (pass the smelling salts!!) commoners, one often married foreign royalty. Apparently Victoria was particularly successful at placing her descendants. In 1914, those crowned heads and their little war were all related. I believe Nicholas II and Kaiser Wilhelm II were "Cousin Nicky" and "Cousin Willy" to the King of England. Even the current consort, Philip of Edinburgh, originally from Greece, is a great-great-grandson of Victoria ... But I guess Ekaterina/Sophie von Anhalt-Zerbst was probably mostly "German" when she married, and not one bit Russian, so Katarina is right too. And it makes for a good one-liner. Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor Along this line, Stanislavsky's "method acting" technique influenced Marlon Brando and a host of other actors and actresses of that and later generations. -John Pendergast >The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a >multi-ethnic and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and >Catholic churches did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native >subjects of the Empire were probably the people who mainly attended them. >Felix Corley No doubt... Maybe I should have said "multi-national". But wasn't 19th Cent. Russia called in the west the "prisonhouse of nations"? Jules Levin Borsht is actually not a Russian dish but a Ukrainian one. The name Great Russia comes from the Byzantines who called the northern and southern part of the lands of Rus’ as: њ±єБ¬ ЎЙГЇ± (Makra Rosia - Great Rus’) and њ№єБ¬ ЎЙГЇ± (Mikra Rosia - Minor Rus’ or Little Rus’), respectively, following the pattern used for Greece -- where Little Greece was the centre and Great Greece were its colonies. The very name Russia applied to Moscow Princedom was first introduced by Peter the Great (Butcher) who sent money to foreign ambassadors so that they called this country in their official papers Russia, not in any other way. With best regards, Maria Dmytrieva [xmas at UKR.NET] Could we still return to Russia's priority on multi-engine planes? Is there a source? (And apologies if it was meant as a joke--I read it very quickly.) Thanks, Jindrich Toman Was it referring to Igor Sikorskii's plane "The Grand"? Charlotte Douglas See the Wikipedia article for "Igor Sikorsky". Alternatively, I discuss the plane (known alternatively as "The Big Baltic" or "Le Grande" before it was finally re-named the "Russian Warrior") on pp. 56-58 of my book _Dictatorship of the Air_ Scott W Palmer Francoise Rosset wrote: “Apparently Victoria was particularly successful at placing her descendants”. And then there was the practice of the Habsburgs, which led to the poetic aphorism (attributed variously to Maximilian I, the Holy Roman Emperor, and to Mathias Corvinus, King of Hungary) "Bella gerant alii, tu, felix Austria, nube/ Nam quae Mars aliis, dat tibi regna Venus" (Let others wage war; you, O happy Austria, marry; for those kingdoms that Mars gives to others, Venus gives to thee). The first line is more often quoted than the whole distich.// Bob Rothstein Yes, it's 1915--great, thanks. JT The plane debuted (and was destroyed) in 1913. Scott W Palmer. For the general public: Russia is not the same thing as the former Soviet Union; it was only part of the FSU. Until the 20th century, the bulk of Russia's land area was inhabited by people who couldn't speak Russian (though of course Russians were far more numerous because the vast outlying areas were sparsely populated). Paul B. Gallagher Yes, back to earth, and why not add a statistic about Soviet losses in ww2. John Langran Borscht was originally made not with beets, but with a root similar to carrots or parsnips, called "borscht." Only later, during the 16C, "borscht" root was replaced by beets in the soup. (from Olive Trees and Honey by Gil Marks) Laura Kline On the subject of "multicultural Russia," one might mention the fact that Christianity was not the first major world religion to attain official status within the territory of what is today the Russian Federation. It was preceded by Judaism (adopted by the Turkic-speaking Khazars in the late 8th-early 9th century), and by Islam, which became the dominant religion of the Volga Bulgars -- who are believed to have played an important role in the ethnogenesis of the Kazan Tatars -- in the early 10th century. Russia today has the largest number of Muslims of any "European" country (estimates range from between 14 to 22 million), and this segment of the population is growing rapidly, due both to high birthrates among groups originating in the North Caucasus and immigration of Muslim ethnic groups from the "Near Abroad." This is, by the way, the reason that Russia, along with Bosnia-Hercegovina, was recently granted observer status in the Organisation of the Islamic Conference, an organization of states with Muslim majorities (http://www.oic-oci.org/oicnew/page_detail.asp?p_id=52). Some analysts even go so far as to argue that if current demographic trends continue, barring significant religious/cultural identity shifts among traditionally Muslim ethnic groups, the Russian Federation could become a Muslim majority country by the latter part of the 21st century! And here's another interesting fact about Russia's ethnically non-Russian regions: the title of the oldest city in the Russian Federation is held by Derbent, Dagestan, which supposedly dates back some 5,000 years as an urban center. Curt Woolhiser And if you are interested in religion and stats - Today's Russia's religious minorities include: 9-28 million Muslims; as many as 2.5 million Old Believers; 1.5-2 million Buddhists; .5-1.5 million Catholics; as many as 2 million Protestants; .25-2 million Jews; and many pagan faiths including a large Shaman population, many of whom are based around Lake Baikal and hold regular festivals there. The Orthodox number between 45 and 80 percent of the population. And, of course, perhaps most interesting is the massive difference between the stats reported by various agencies (religious, governmental, etc. - a difference of 300% is pretty hard to explain by margin of error) More info on this: http://www.sras.org/library_religion_russia (P.S. our site is loaded with cool stuff like this) Josh Wilson SRAS Vasmer, s.v. borshch, says the earlier plant used was borshchevnik (Heracleum spondylium), which in English is hogweed or cow parsnip. One can see why they changed to beet. Whether the soup is Russian, Belarusian, Ukrainian or Polish in origin is probably a matter of which football team you support. Will Ryan The writer of Domostroj enjoins his readers to plant borshch all round the edge of the garden with a view to boiling it up, presumably to make soup: а возле тына около всего огорода борщу сеет где кропива ростет и с весны его варит про себя много [a vozle tyna okolo vsego ogoroda borshchu seet gde kropiva rostet i s vesny ego varit pro sebja mnogo] (apologies for the modernised spelling). Borshch, as a plant, is apparently 'cow parsnip' in English, and I assume that it was the tops, not the roots, that were boiled up. Incidentally, I recall in the days of my youth drinking something called 'nettle beer'; it wouid seem therefore that the writer of Domostroj, not normally a person to let slip an opportunity for thrift, has on this occasion missed a trick. And (чтобы два раза не кликать) George V and Nicholas II were indeed cousins, but this was because their mothers, Queen Alexandra and Dagmar/Marija Fedorovna respectively, were sisters. In this instance the credit for astute matrimonial placement (not that it did the Tsar much good in the end) goes to Christian IX of Denmark. John Dunn. How about--Vladivostok is roughly half-way between Moscow and New York (The hard way)? George Kalbouss Replying to Maria Dmytrieva : Not exactly. "Megale Rhosia" rather than "Makra Rhosia" for the "Great" version.. More importantly, "Mikra Rhosia" was not the "centre" as opposed to "colonies" (and certainly not by any analogy with Greece) but was used mainly in Byzantine administrative documents relating to Rus bishoprics under Lithuanian rule. For full citations from all the Greek sources on both forms see Mikhail Biblkov'a book "Byzantinorossica: svod vizantiiskikh svidetel'stv o Rusi" (2004), pp. 172-4, 403-5, 597, 600-601. Simon Franklin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sbauckus at earthlink.net Sat Mar 22 13:44:14 2008 From: sbauckus at earthlink.net (Susan Bauckus) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 06:44:14 -0700 Subject: Ten Things You Didn't Know About Russia Part 1 Message-ID: In War and Peace, the first few lines (6 and a half) are French, not the first 10 pages (I say this with the book in front of me, not based on memory). Although French appears throughout the book, it's essentially used for dialog and some correspondence and Tolstoi was, one could say, fond of narration. Susie Bauckus > [Original Message] > From: Andrew Jameson > To: > Date: 3/22/2008 5:36:14 AM > Subject: [SEELANGS] Ten Things You Didn't Know About Russia Part 1 > > TEN THINGS YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT RUSSIA PART 1 > > _____ > > Dear Colleagues, Here is the complete summary so far, exactly as sent to the > SEELANGS list. > > THANK YOU ALL FOR TAKING PART. Andrew Jameson, Malvern UK, Good Friday, 21 > March 2008 > > > > Initial request: > > I've been asked to write a not-too-serious lecture for the Annual General > Meeting of a society concerned with Russian and Soviet studies. I'm calling > it "Ten things you didn't know about Russia". Such things as: St Cyril > didn't create the Cyrillic alphabet etc. etc. > > I'm wondering if you have any unusual or bizarre facts about Russia which > you would like to share? > > Andrew Jameson > > > > If I were giving such a talk, I'd be tempted to include "Vodka is actually > Polish." Though it's not a linguistic fact on the surface, discussing the > word's (very simple) etymology and perhaps the different diminutives Russian > has to use to distinguish "vodochka" > > and "voditsa" -- and perhaps the connections with eau de vie, aquavit and > whiskey? -- does offer some linguistic satisfaction. Wishing you enjoyment > as you put the talk together! Sibelan > > > > Of course that the October Revolution didn't take place in October (or it > did, but then got celebrated in November) Nathan Longan > > > > Very few people realize the true size - and climate range - of Siberia. My > civ students always assume that it's perpetually cold and one big prison > camp somewhere to the north of Moscow Nicole > > > > 1. Matreshki came from Japan. > > 2. The greatest Russian poet is 1/8 Black (octoroon). > > 3. The last Russian czar was 1/256 Russian by blood. > > 4. St. Basil cathedral is the most un-Russian church, more like Turkish, and > for good reason: it was built on the occasion of the taking of Kazan. > > 5. It was not the Bolsheviks who abolished the monarchy. > > 6. Peter the Great usurped the power from his older brother Ivan V. > > 7. Russia covers 11 time zones. Alina Israeli > > > > "Considering that the defining line in a family's history was its > patrilineal descent as it was just about anywhere else in the western world, > Pushkin's preoccupation with his African ancestry is all the more telling > since Ibrahim Gannibal was his maternal great-grandfather. Furthermore, > Nadja, his mother, was through her own mother, a descendant of the same > Pushkin forbear from whom her husband Serge descended. This is genetically > interesting since it explains why the poet, who is generally but mistakenly > accepted as an octoroon, looks perceptibly blacker." From PBS/WGBH's > Frontline, "The Blurred Racial Lines of Famous Families" Tom Nicholson > > > > How about (off the cuff) "The name 'Russian' originally referred to Swedish > Vikings"? > > "The first ten (roughly) pages of "War and Peace" are in French"? > > "Russia and Scotland are the only countries in Europe with three kings > called Alexander"? > > "Dutch nearly became an official language in Russia" colkitto > > > > It might be of interest to know that the first complete translation of the > Bible in Russia was done in Novgorod in the 1490'S'(?) under aegis of > Archbishop Gennadij and that the translation was done from the VULGATE with > the aid of a Roman Catholic monk ( Dominican?, I'm not sure)> I'm relating > from memory here so the details have to checked, but the main statement is > true. prolland > > > > This is a convoluted non-logic, which would not be accepted in an > undergraduate paper. > > The fact that Nadezhda Osipovna Gannibal was related to Pushkins on her > mother side does not diminish the fact that she was a grand- daughter of > Abram Petrovich Gannibal on her father's side, one does not negate the > other. See the chart: > > See the chart: http://www.as-pushkin.ru/index.php?cnt=4 and also: > > http://www.genery.com/ru/drevo/images/pushkin_big.gif > > [Note from AJ: I hope these have transferred correctly, you may need to > adjust these addresses] > > It's Pushkin's blood that got infused into him twice but it does not > additionally dilute the Gannibal's blood. Someone has to learn to count > fractions there. (There was recently a report that Americans do not > understand fractions.) Alina Israeli > > > > Can I just add that calculating fractions of blood percentages and using > terms like "octoroon" sounds very racist and it would make a lot more sense > just to say that Pushkin was descended from an African slave. Sarah Hurst > > Agreed, the term is archaic and implies derision. Was just forwarding along > the PBS quote for discussion. > http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/secret/famous/pushkingenealogy > .html Tom Nicholson > > > > I'm surprised that no one has mentioned that Red Square isn't red, and never > was. --Loren > > > > True, or that St. Basil's was originally painted white, and remained so for > quite a while before it became as colorful as it is today. Devin Connolly > > > > Russia produces some 12% of the world's aluminum, controls 20% of the world > gem stone market, contains a third of the world's unmined diamonds, about a > quarter (maybe more) of the world's unmined gold, and supplies 8% of the > world's uranium needs. > > More info on that sort of thing here: > http://www.sras.org/library_resource_export_russia > > You might also mention something about the fact that Russia is #3 in > software outsourcing, was also #3 in IPOs (by money raised) in the first > half of 2007, and Moscow is this year's hottest location for opening new > retail locations in Europe (and St. Pete is number #2). > > In less glittering news, Russia is #2 in the production of email SPAM (the > US is still #1) and #1 in the production of Malware (harmful programs like > viruses). > > Oh, and the wall around Red Square looks pretty red to me and reds or red > hues are the dominant motif there - the real story is the fact that "red" > and "beautiful" used to be the same word in Russian. > > Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies > Editor-in-Chief > > Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org > jwilson at sras.org > > > > Someone sent this to me off-list. And Christmas is after the New Year. > Another thing I learned during a semester trip to then the USSR, from a US > diplomat, was that Moscow and (then) Leningrad were the third- and fourth- > largest cities in Europe, after London and Paris (resp.). That really caught > my attention at the time. Someone correct me if I was misinformed. --Loren > > > > More things you (probably) didn't know about Russia: Russia originated: > > the first multi-engine airplane > > the first flight over the North Pole > > the first fleet of strategic bombers > > the use of airplanes to promote diplomacy the idea of employing airplanes to > conduct terrorist attacks. > > > > Alina Israeli wrote: 7. Russia covers 11 time zones. > > These include: Paleolithic, Mesolithic, Neolithic, Copper, Bronze, Iron, > ancient, middle, early modern, modern, and postmodern, ...all at the same > time....David L. Cooper > > > > I read somewhere that Tsarskoe Selo, around the turn of the last century, > was the first fully electrified city in the world. It was a middle-class > suburb with a commuter train taking people into St Pete for white collar > jobs. It was international in character, with a synagogue, protestant > churches, and a Catholic church, I believe. Jules Levin > > > > Before 2004, when the Chita-Khabarovsk "Highway" was officially opened, you > could not drive from Moscow to Vladivostok. And even now it's not paved the > entire way. Emily Saunders > > > > The immensity of Siberia means that if you stand on the coast of the US > state of Maine, you are closer to Moscow than your colleague standing on the > eastern coast of Siberia. > > Within this immense landmass lies the world's deepest (1,620 metres) fresh > water lake. Lake Baikal holds some 20% of the world's surface fresh water - > if drained, it would take the water of all five US-Canadian Great Lakes > (Ontario, Erie, Huron, Michigan, and Superior) to refill it. Over 300 rivers > and streams flow into Baikal, but only one (the Angara) flows out from the > lake. William Kerr > > > > Not to mention Russia gave us the periodic table of elements, the concept of > classical (psychological) conditioning, the first satellite, first > artificial heart, and the AK-47. More on this here: > > > http://www.sras.org/science_in_russia_and_the_soviet_union Josh Wilson > > > > Not to mention the best WW II battle tank--the T-34. Jules Levin > > > > Ekaterina II wasn't Russian...Katarina Peitlova-Tocci > > > > The largest fresh water lake on the planet, with its own unique species of > flora and fauna John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk > > > > > The Russian Empire (just like today's Russian Federation) was a multi-ethnic > and multi-religious country. A synagogue, Protestant and Catholic churches > did not make Tsarskoe Selo "international" - native subjects of the Empire > were probably the people who mainly attended them. Felix Corley > > > > The immensity of Siberia means that if you stand on the coast of the US > state of Maine, you are closer to Moscow than your colleague standing on the > eastern coast of Siberia. > > Within this immense landmass lies the world's deepest (1,620 metres) fresh > water lake. Lake Baikal holds some 20% of the world's surface fresh water - > if drained, it would take the water of all five US-Canadian Great Lakes > (Ontario, Erie, Huron, Michigan, and Superior) to refill it. Over 300 rivers > and streams flow into Baikal, but only one (the Angara) flows out from the > lake. William Kerr > > Koc Universitesi Istanbul > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Sat Mar 22 14:06:37 2008 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 14:06:37 +0000 Subject: about borsht In-Reply-To: <000d01c88bfd$e9731800$0301a8c0@windows2hfn6v8> Message-ID: John Langran wrote: > Рецептов борща уйма. Сколько хозяек - столько и рецептов! How true - and for confusion worse confounded compare cookbooks and dictionaries. I once had to copy-edit the Russian section of an (English-language) encyclopedia of cookery and found that it contained five different recipes for borshch, each with its own spelling of borshch, and, if I remember correctly, a couple more for borshchok, the variant of course being 'shch'. Will Ryan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From padunov at PITT.EDU Sat Mar 22 15:05:55 2008 From: padunov at PITT.EDU (Padunov, Vladimir) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:05:55 -0400 Subject: Russian Film Symposium at the University of Pittsburgh Message-ID: The tenth annual Russian Film Symposium, "The Ideological Occult: Russian Cinema Under Putin," will run from Monday 5 May through Saturday 10 May 2008 on the campus of the University of Pittsburgh and the Melwood Screening Room of Pittsburgh Filmmakers. Information is available online at http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu. The title and topic of this year's Symposium are motivated by two considerations, the first of which is an historical coincidence: just as the first Symposium took place six months prior to Vladimir Putin's appointment as president of the Russian Federation, the tenth will occur two months after he has left office. Putin's policies have had two objectives: the re-centralization of power (political and economic) in the Kremlin and the reassertion of Russia's role as a super-power in the international arena. Both objectives originate from a paradox of history about which scholars in the social sciences and humanities have begun to devote attention, and which provides the second impulse for this year's Symposium: Russia's robust imperial practices in the relative absence of a developed civic nationhood. The ideological occult-a nostalgic desire to resurrect a belief system-known to have failed-flourishes in an era when the very conditions for its survival no longer exist. Taking as its departure point the cultural theorizing of two very different scholars, Peter Brooks and Frederic Jameson, our working thesis argues that contemporary Russian culture is caught between two conditions. First, the technological restrictions on the media are no longer sufficiently repressive so as to sustain an insular ideological space where state policy may adequately control the global circulation of contending ideas. Second, Russian civil society is not sufficiently developed-nor is there necessarily the indication that such a development would be desired-to sustain autonomous loyalty to the state, a loyalty more typical of the nation-state. Putin's administration approaches its end in March 2008: what could we say about the ways in which Russian cinema has figured his legacy? How has contemporary film represented the ideological configurations of today's Russia? Some political analysts have argued that the Putin administration has been a state without ideology. If so, its absence predates Putin: Yeltsin's declared competition (1996) of a ten-million-ruble ($ 2,000) prize to articulate a new "Russian idea" ended in stunning silence. As politician Galina Starovoitova (assassinated in 1998 in circumstances similar to Politkovskaia) put it: "the solution is not building an official idea, but in continuing to build a civil society that will generate [its own ideas]." "The Ideological Occult" provides two fora: public screenings at the Melwood Screening Room of Pittsburgh Filmmakers, with brief introductions and public discussion; and a scholarly component at the University of Pittsburgh, consisting of research presentations, screenings, and debate. This year's films include Aleksei Balabanov's Cargo 200 (2007), Timur Bekmambetov's Day Watch (2006), Vladimir Khotinenko's 1612 (2007), Marina Liubakova's Cruelty (2007), Pavel Lungin's Island (2006), Anna Melikian's Mermaid (2007), Aleksandr Mindadze's Soar (2007), Aleksei Mizgirev's Hard-Hearted (2007), Aleksei Popogrebskii's Simple Things (2007), Larisa Sadilova's Nothing Personal (2007), Aleksandr Sokurov's Alexandra (2007), Vera Storozheva's Traveling with Pets (2007), and Ol'ga Zhulina's A Kiss-Not for the Press (2008). Funding for Symposium 2008 includes the University of Pittsburgh-the Dean's Office of the School of Arts and Sciences, the University Center for International Studies, the Center for Russian and East European Studies, the Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures, the Film Studies Program, the Graduate Program for Cultural Studies, and a grant from the Hewlett Foundation-and Pittsburgh Filmmakers, as well as grants from The Trust for Mutual Understanding (NYC) and the A.W. Mellon Educational and Charitable Trust Fund of The Pittsburgh Foundation. _________________________________________ Vladimir Padunov Associate Director, Film Studies Program Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures 427 Cathedral of Learning voice: 1-412-624-5713 University of Pittsburgh FAX: 1-412-624-9714 Pittsburgh, PA 15260 padunov at pitt.edu Russian Film Symposium http://www.rusfilm.pitt.edu KinoKultura http://www.kinokultura.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU Sat Mar 22 15:47:03 2008 From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson) Date: Sat, 22 Mar 2008 10:47:03 -0500 Subject: Cheremsha Message-ID: Chives. Grows everywhere, even in public parks.. o.m ----- Original Message ----- From: John Schillinger Date: Friday, March 21, 2008 1:35 am Subject: [SEELANGS] Cheremsha > John Dunn's comments on borshch and Domostroj prompt me to inquire > if > anyone knows what cheremsha > really is as a plant (garlic tops?). I've always sought it out in > its > pickled form at markets in Russia, but never have come across it in > > the US until I recently found a jar of it at a DC Russian food > store > where the English translation on the label was "Ramson." > > John Schillinger > Emeritus Prof. of Russian > American University > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU Sun Mar 23 14:00:16 2008 From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 10:00:16 -0400 Subject: Cheremsha In-Reply-To: <193bc7199100.199100193bc7@imap.georgetown.edu> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 Mar 2008 10:47:03 -0500 Olga Meerson wrote: > Chives. Grows everywhere, even in public parks.. > o.m It's a wild relative of chives. It's not what speakers of American English commonly mean by "chives." In North America, standard kitchen chives have the smallest leaves -- thin straw-like stalks, and the flowers are a small purple clump (sometimes white). Chives are called "ciboulette" in French and "Schnittlauch" in German, as opposed to ramson, which is "Bärlauch" and "Zigeunerlauch." Don't know about cheremsha, but English ramson has pointy white flowers and real, broad leaves that look like lily-of-the-valley. The best pictures are at: for ransom/ bear's garlic (scroll down all the way): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bärlauch for chives: http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&q=chives&btnG=Search+Images Now which one is cheremsha?? Or is it something else again? -FR Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor Chair, Russian and Russian Studies Coordinator, German and Russian Wheaton College Norton, Massachusetts 02766 Office: (508) 285-3696 FAX: (508) 286-3640 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU Sun Mar 23 14:20:14 2008 From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 10:20:14 -0400 Subject: Cheremsha II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Don't know why I didn't do this right away: http://images.google.com/images?q=cheremsha&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi Are these indeed pictures of cheremsha as you understand the name? (ramson and chives repeated below) > for ramson/ bear's garlic (scroll down all the way): > http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bärlauch > > for chives: > http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&q=chives&btnG=Search+Images Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor Chair, Russian and Russian Studies Coordinator, German and Russian Wheaton College Norton, Massachusetts 02766 Office: (508) 285-3696 FAX: (508) 286-3640 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From mlauner at FSU.EDU Sun Mar 23 14:47:50 2008 From: mlauner at FSU.EDU (Michael Launer) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 10:47:50 -0400 Subject: Bosnian Message-ID: A former student has asked for linguistic information (citations of textbooks, scholarly articles, etc.) for Bosnian and the languages of the former Yugoslavia. Please reply offline to LeggSC at state.gov ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From asred at COX.NET Sun Mar 23 14:43:36 2008 From: asred at COX.NET (Steve Marder) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 10:43:36 -0400 Subject: Cheremsha II In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Don't know why I didn't do this right away: > http://images.google.com/images?q=cheremsha&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi > > Are these indeed pictures of cheremsha as you understand the name? > (ramson and chives repeated below) > >> for ramson/ bear's garlic (scroll down all the way): >> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bärlauch >> >> for chives: >> http://images.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&q=chives&btnG=Search+Images _________________________________________________________________________ Pictures are indeed worth oh so many words! My $0.02: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A7%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BC%D1%88%D0%B0 http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=ALUR ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU Sun Mar 23 14:54:32 2008 From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (E Wayles Browne) Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2008 10:54:32 -0400 Subject: Bosnian In-Reply-To: <47E66D96.3090302@fsu.edu> Message-ID: The simplest way to begin: Go to http://www.bcsgrammarandtextbook.org/ The two books mentioned on the site are very good resources in themselves, and the pages of links (one on the left and one on the right) have many more, including one that I worked on. -- Wayles Browne, Assoc. Prof. of Linguistics Department of Linguistics Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A. tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h) fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE) e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu > A former student has asked for linguistic information (citations of > textbooks, scholarly articles, etc.) for Bosnian and the languages of > the former Yugoslavia. > > Please reply offline to > > LeggSC at state.gov > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Mon Mar 24 11:17:31 2008 From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:17:31 -0000 Subject: Tearing Down Moscow Message-ID: Kevin O'Flynn of the Moscow Times is running a personal campaign entitled "Tearing Down Moscow". Put simply, the Moscow that we knew and maybe loved for much of our working lives will soon be no more. See Kevin's ELEVEN articles listed on the index page http://www.themoscowtimes.com/indexes/214.html AJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Mon Mar 24 15:31:05 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:31:05 -0400 Subject: Tearing Down Moscow In-Reply-To: <001001c88da0$aac99300$0300a8c0@ANDREW> Message-ID: There is a group and their site and blog "Moskva, kotoroj net" http:// kotoroy.net/. If you search those three words you can find quite a few documents. On Mar 24, 2008, at 7:17 AM, Andrew Jameson wrote: > Kevin O'Flynn of the Moscow Times is running a personal campaign > entitled "Tearing Down Moscow". Put simply, the Moscow that we knew > and > maybe loved for much of our working lives will soon be no more. > See Kevin's ELEVEN articles listed on the index page > http://www.themoscowtimes.com/indexes/214.html > AJ > Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU Mon Mar 24 16:14:53 2008 From: anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU (Anne Lounsbery) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:14:53 -0400 Subject: Mid-Atlantic Slavic Conf., Sat. Mar. 29, NYC Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I hope that those of you who will be in the New York area this coming Saturday, March 29, will join us for the Mid-Atlantic Slavic Conference. The program will begin at 8:30 a.m. and conclude at 5:30. There will be panels on a wide variety of topics, ranging from literature and history to political science and visual arts. Breakfast and lunch will be served. I would be happy to email copies of the schedule to anyone who is interested. ADDRESS AND DIRECTIONS: The conference venue is New York University's Languages and Literatures Building, 13-19 University Place in Manhattan (Greenwich Village). 13-19 University Place is just north of Washington Square Park (University Place is an extension of Washington Square East). There are many subway lines close by: the N and R trains stop at 8th Street/NYU (this is the closest subway); the 6 stops at Astor Place (also close); at the West 4th Street stop you can get the A, C,E, B, D, F and Q and then walk across Washington Square Park; a bit further away are the 1 and 9 trains at the Christopher Street stop; you can also take many train lines to Union Square and walk south along University Place. Please feel free to contact me with questions. Best regards, A.L. Anne Lounsbery Assistant Professor and Director of Graduate Study Department of Russian and Slavic Studies New York University 13 University Place, 2nd floor New York, NY 10003 (212) 998-8674 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM Mon Mar 24 17:27:57 2008 From: a.jameson2 at DSL.PIPEX.COM (Andrew Jameson) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:27:57 -0000 Subject: FW: Stipend: Aleksanteri Institute Visiting Scholar Programme Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Postgraduates in Slavonic and East European Studies [mailto:SLAVONIC-EE-POSTGRAD at JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Felicitas Macgilchrist Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 10:12 AM To: SLAVONIC-EE-POSTGRAD at JISCMAIL.AC.UK Subject: Fwd: Stipend: Aleksanteri Institute Visiting Scholar Programme Von: Eeva Korteniemi Datum: Mon, 3 Mar 2008 12:23:59 +0200 *Aleksanteri Institute Visiting Scholar Programme - Aleksanteri Fellowships* The Aleksanteri Institute Visiting Scholar Programme invites applications for Aleksanteri Fellowships for the 2008-2009 academic year from qualified scholars holding a PhD degree in a field relevant to the activities of the Institute. The Fellows should pursue research in Russian and Eastern European studies, in themes relevant to the current research focuses of the Aleksanteri Institute. The Fellowship provides an opportunity to undertake research and to actively participate in and contribute to the intellectual community of the Aleksanteri Institute and to the Finnish Russian and Eastern European studies community more generally. For more information on the Aleksanteri Fellowships, please see http://www.helsinki.fi/aleksanteri/english/news/ Best regards, Eeva Korteniemi Planning Officer Aleksanteri Institute Finnish Centre for Russian and Eastern European Studies University of Helsinki ************************************************************* SLAVONIC-EE-POSTGRAD, a list for postgraduate students in Slavonic and East European Studies in the UK and elsewhere, is a project of BASEES, the British Association for Slavonic and East European Studies (www.basees.org.uk). For subscription information, please see www.basees.org.uk/postgrads.htm . To unsubscribe, see instructions at www.jiscmail.ac.uk . ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dmborgmeyer at HOTMAIL.COM Mon Mar 24 19:55:54 2008 From: dmborgmeyer at HOTMAIL.COM (David Borgmeyer) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:55:54 -0500 Subject: LoC European Reading Room Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, A colleague forwarded this to me. Does anyone have information on how Slavists are organizing as the below indicates, and how we can help? David Borgmeyer ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: H-France Date: Mon, Mar 24, 2008 at 10:32 AM Subject: Closure of LoC European Reading Room To: h-france at lists.uakron.edu Dear H-France Colleagues, I have just been informed that the Library of Congress has decided to close the European Reading Room. This is expected to happen quite soon - perhaps within a month, so that an exhibition on Abe Lincoln can be set up. They have made vague promises to reopen in the future, but this would be in a smaller space, and only after extensive renovations that may in fact not happen due to budget and logistical issues. So it is quite likely that the closure will be permanent, and even if it is not, it will only be after a long time that a new, reduced European Reading Room would be opened. The current space is set to be converted to another exhibition hall, which would bring in more visitors and revenue, but would continue to move the Library's institutional emphasis from assisting scholarly research to serving as a tourist destination. As someone who has done extensive research in the European Reading Room, and who has benefited from the excellent assistance of their dedicated staff (who fear that their jobs may also be cut), I consider this to be a very sad decision. Even if you haven't conducted research in the European Reading Room, I hope that you would agree that it is vitally important that our national repository of knowledge maintain a Reading Room dedicated to European Studies. The Library of Congress has more foreign-language materials than English ones, and the European Reading Room serves as an example for foreign visitors (who come through the room frequently on special tours, etc.) of the continuing interest that Americans have in learning about European culture and history. The French holdings at the Library are enormous, and include many titles difficult or impossible to find anywhere else in the United States. While they will still be accessible to readers in the Main Reading Room, the country-specific reference materials, databases, and, of course, the European specialist librarians will be less readily accessible. I would encourage members of the list to protest this decision to your congressperson, and also to James Billington, the Librarian of Congress. Previous efforts to close the African and Middle Eastern reading Room, which has fewer scholarly visitors, have been thwarted by protests from the scholarly community. The Slavic studies folks (the most extensive users of the European Reading Room) are already organizing to express their displeasure. I urge French scholars to do the same! Dr. Michael Sizer Maryland Institute College of Art Dept. of Language, Literature and Culture sizer001 at umn.edu _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Hotmail is giving away Zunes. http://www.windowslive-hotmail.com/ZuneADay/?locale=en-US&ocid=TXT_TAGLM_Mobile_Zune_V3 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM Mon Mar 24 20:47:14 2008 From: n_shevchuk at YAHOO.COM (Nina Shevchuk) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:47:14 -0700 Subject: Writing Mapping Project -- Where are Students Writing Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers: I am posting this on behalf of Dr. Chris Thaiss and the International WAC/WID Mapping Project at UC-Davis (Research on Activity/Initiatives Worldwide Devoted to Student Writing in Disciplines). Begun in 2006, this project aims to identify, compile, analyze, and facilitate activity and interest in writing in the disciplines in higher education around the world. We are interested both in first-language and English-language initiatives. We are also interested in graduate-level initiatives, but we pay primary attention to undergraduate, college-university activities focused in disciplines, as well as academic writing centers or similar services devoted to working with students and faculty/staff in and across disciplines. The Project is sponsored in part by the International Network of WAC Programs (INWAC). As teachers and colleagues, we hope you will take a moment to complete a brief survey on this website: http://mappingproject.ucdavis.edu/preliminarysurvey/ The survey collects confidential data about students' writing in your program. At this stage, researchers are especially interested in student writing in and across disciplines other than English, including other languages. For us, as teachers of Russian, this survey also represents a chance to reflect upon our own disciplinary practices in regards to writing as a learning tool at all stages of language acquisition and, later on, in inter-cultural studies. The investigators welcome your comments. You can contact Dr. Thaiss at cjthaiss at ucdavis.edu Best regards, Nina Shevchuk-Murray ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From givn at MAIL.ROCHESTER.EDU Mon Mar 24 22:40:47 2008 From: givn at MAIL.ROCHESTER.EDU (John Givens) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:40:47 -0400 Subject: Lenin question . . . Message-ID: Dear Seelangs: I am posting a query from a colleague in German regarding Lenin's famous Beethoven quote. If anyone can help out, please respond on- or off-list and I will forward your responses. Bol'shoe spasibo! John Givens givn at mail.rochester.edu ____________________________ I am writing a paper on "The Lives of Others" and am trying to get the specifics on a supposed quote from Lenin. In the film, the main character says that, upon listening to Beethoven's Appassionata, Lenin said, "If I keep listening to it, I won’t finish the revolution." I found several versions of this. One said something to the effect of "I can't listen too often to this music because it makes me want to stroke the heads of those, whose heads I must pummel/whose brains I must, without pity, dash out!" [The German: Ich kann diese Musik nicht oft hören, weil ich sonst Menschen die Köpfe streicheln will, denen ich sie doch einschlagen muss, mitleidslos einschlagen.] An article from Time quoting him in 1947, quotes him thus: ". . . but I cannot listen to music too often. It affects my nerves and makes me want to say sweet nothings and stroke the heads of men who live in a dirty hell and can still create such beauty. But these days you can't go around stroking people's heads lest your hand be bitten off. You have to smash them over the head—smash them without mercy—even though in theory we are against every form of oppression of mankind . . . ours is a hellish task." http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,794511,00.html I also found it in Lukács' "Lenin - Theoretician of Practice": . . . Gorky recorded Lenin’s very characteristic words spoken after he listened to Beethoven’s Appassionata sonata: “I know the Appassionata inside out and yet I am willing to listen to it every day. It is wonderful, ethereal music. On hearing it I proudly, maybe somewhat naively, think: See! people are able to produce such marvels!” He then winked, laughed and added sadly: “I’m often unable to listen to music, it gets on my nerves, I would like to stroke my fellow beings and whisper sweet nothings in their ears for being able to produce such beautiful things in spite of the abominable hell they are living in. However, today one shouldn’t caress anybody - for people will only bite off your hand; strike, without pity, although theoretically we are against any kind of violence. Umph, it is, in fact, an infernally difficult task!” http://www.marxists.org/archive/lukacs/works/xxxx/lenin.htm Finally, Zizek suggests it is an anecdote that has been used particularly among Lenin's detractors, as proof of his extreme self control, but that this "extreme sensitivity" he showed to the music be read in the context of his knowledge that it needed to be kept in check for the sake of the political struggle. http://www.lacan.com/zizek-seize.htm Can anyone tell me anything about this? Does anyone know what kind of role it played in Soviet discourses on art (particularly bourgeois art)? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Jenny John Givens Associate Professor of Russian Modern Languages & Cultures Box 270082 University of Rochester Rochester, NY 14627-0082 585-275-4272 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU Tue Mar 25 00:32:26 2008 From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein) Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:32:26 -0400 Subject: Lenin question . . . In-Reply-To: <47e82def.2cf.585.8636@mail.rochester.edu> Message-ID: John Givens wrote: > I am posting a query from a colleague in German regarding Lenin's famous > Beethoven quote. If anyone can help out, please respond on- or off-list and I > will forward your responses. > Plugging the phrase "изумительная нечеловеческая музыка" (izumitel'naia nechelovecheskaia muzyka) in cyrillic into Google produces a vast number of references to Lenin's comments on the Appassionata, including one that mentions a 1963 film depicting Lenin and Gorky listening to Isai Dobrovein's performance of the sonata, which supposedly evoked Lenin's comment. Bob Rothstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From xmas at UKR.NET Mon Mar 24 23:23:40 2008 From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 01:23:40 +0200 Subject: Lenin question . . . In-Reply-To: <47e82def.2cf.585.8636@mail.rochester.edu> Message-ID: there is nothing as good as the sources. (I am a translator so I know what I am talking about). Two iterations in Google give us the required quote: Максим Горький В.И. Ленин http://lenin.boom.ru/about/gorky.htm Как-то вечером, в Москве, на квартире Е.П.Пешковой, Ленин, слушая сонаты Бетховена в исполнении Исая Добровейн, сказал: - Ничего не знаю лучше "Араssionаtа", готов слушать её каждый день. Изумительная, нечеловеческая музыка. Я всегда с гордостью, может быть, наивной, думаю: вот какие чудеса могут делать люди! И, прищурясь, усмехаясь, он прибавил невесело: - Но часто слушать музыку не могу, действует на нервы, хочется милые глупости говорить и гладить по головкам людей, которые, живя в грязном аду, могут создавать такую красоту. А сегодня гладить по головке никого нельзя - руку откусят, и надобно бить по головкам, бить безжалостно, хотя мы, в идеале, против всякого насилия над людьми. Гм-гм, - должность адски трудная! the most widely quoted piece of it is about the ethereal music. in Russian it is "нечеловеческая музыка". it may be used both ironically (even sarcastically) and as a praise. another one that is often used in the same context is a quote  from Stalin who said about Gorky's epic "The Girl and the Death" -- 'this piece is stronger than Goethe's Faust' (эта вещь посильней, чем "Фауст" Гёте). With best regards, Maria --- Оригінальне повідомлення --- John Givens   Dear Seelangs: I am posting a query from a colleague in German regarding Lenin's famous Beethoven quote. If anyone can help out, please respond on- or off-list and I will forward your responses. Bol'shoe spasibo! John Givens givn at mail.rochester.edu   ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU Tue Mar 25 14:08:57 2008 From: s-hill4 at UIUC.EDU (Prof Steven P Hill) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 09:08:57 -0500 Subject: Lenin & music - hazards of indirect quote Message-ID: Dear colleagues and Prof Givens: It's fascinating that several variations are cited on a supposed statement by Comrade Ul'ianov-Lenin about the "Appassionata." Reminds me of the supposed quotation by Lenin about the "importance of film." I remember that I once tried to track down and confirm Lenin's actual, original film-statement. If memory serves, I discovered that Lenin had supposedly made the statement appx 1921, when supposedly it was heard by culture-minister Lunacharsky. After considerable time had passed, perhaps even after Lenin had died, Comrade Lunacharsky (perhaps relying on memory?) quoted those words at a journalists' conference, TWO OR THREE YEARS AFTER THE FACT. And it was that much later, "second hand" quotation which was taken as gospel by many later Soviet media historians. Seems possible the same thing could have happened in connection with the "Appassionata." If no tape recorder was turned on to capture Lenin's exact words, and if no trained stenographer was breathlessly inking onto paper his every syllable, then we probably can never know for sure his exact statement or its exact meaning... Happy Easter (belatedly), Steven P Hill, Univeristy of Illinois (USA). _________________________________________________________________ Date: Tue 25 Mar 08:36:39 CDT 2008 From: Subject: Re: GETPOST SEELANGS To: "Steven P. Hill" Date: Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:40:47 -0400 From: John Givens Subject: Lenin question . . . Dear Seelangs: I am posting a query from a colleague in German regarding Lenin's famous Beethoven quote. If anyone can help out, please respond on- or off-list and I will forward your responses. Bol'shoe spasibo! John Givens givn at mail.rochester.edu ............................................................................................... I am writing a paper on "The Lives of Others" and am trying to get the specifics on a supposed quote from Lenin. In the film, the main character says that, upon listening to Beethoven's Appassionata, Lenin said, "If I keep listening to it, I won’t finish the revolution." I found several versions of this. One said something to the effect of "I can't listen too often to this music because it makes me want to stroke the heads of those, whose heads I must pummel/whose brains I must, without pity, dash out!" [The German: Ich kann diese Musik nicht oft hören, weil ich sonst Menschen die Köpfe streicheln will, denen ich sie doch einschlagen muss, mitleidslos einschlagen.] An article from Time quoting him in 1947, quotes him thus: ". . . but I cannot listen to music too often. It affects my nerves and makes me want to say sweet nothings and stroke the heads of men who live in a dirty hell and can still create such beauty. But these days you can't go around stroking people's heads lest your hand be bitten off. You have to smash them over the head—smash them without mercy—even though in theory we are against every form of oppression of mankind . . . ours is a hellish task." http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,794511,00.html I also found it in Lukács' "Lenin - Theoretician of Practice": . . . Gorky recorded Lenin’s very characteristic words spoken after he listened to Beethoven’s Appassionata sonata: “I know the Appassionata inside out and yet I am willing to listen to it every day. It is wonderful, ethereal music. On hearing it I proudly, maybe somewhat naively, think: See! people are able to produce such marvels!” He then winked, laughed and added sadly: “I’m often unable to listen to music, it gets on my nerves, I would like to stroke my fellow beings and whisper sweet nothings in their ears for being able to produce such beautiful things in spite of the abominable hell they are living in. However, today one shouldn’t caress anybody - for people will only bite off your hand; strike, without pity, although theoretically we are against any kind of violence. Umph, it is, in fact, an infernally difficult task!” http://www.marxists.org/archive/lukacs/works/xxxx/lenin.htm Finally, Zizek suggests it is an anecdote that has been used particularly among Lenin's detractors, as proof of his extreme self control, but that this "extreme sensitivity" he showed to the music be read in the context of his knowledge that it needed to be kept in check for the sake of the political struggle. http://www.lacan.com/zizek-seize.htm Can anyone tell me anything about this? Does anyone know what kind of role it played in Soviet discourses on art (particularly bourgeois art)? Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Jenny John Givens Associate Professor of Russian University of Rochester, Rochester, NY 14627-0082 ______________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM Tue Mar 25 19:34:03 2008 From: shatsev at HOTMAIL.COM (Wladimir Shatsev) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:34:03 -0400 Subject: kolossalische Skandal In-Reply-To: <20080325090857.BCI89668@expms6.cites.uiuc.edu> Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, Does anyone know about the German or pseudo-German phrase from Chekhov’s The Man in a Case? “ < …>если бы вдруг не произошел kolossalische Skandal”. Do you think it can be a quotation or whatever? If this is a quotation where do you think it is from? Any suggestions about the origin of the phrase? How this could charcterize the person saying it? I understand that Dear Seelangers, Does anyone know about the German or pseudo-German phrase from Chekhov’s The Man in a Case? “ < …>если бы вдруг не произошел kolossalische Skandal”. Do you think it can be a quotation or whatever? If this is a quotation where do you think it is from? Any suggestions about the origin of the phrase? How this could charcterize the person saying it? I understand that kolossalische Skandal sounds not quite Grammatical. Is such an expression as kolossalle Skandal really exist ? Thank you in advance. Regards, Vladimir Shatsev. Regards, Vladimir Shatsev sounds not quite Grammatical. Is such an expression as kolossalle Skandal really exist ? Thank you in advance. Regards, Vladimir Shatsev. _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself with free Messenger emoticons. Get them today! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Tue Mar 25 20:04:02 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 16:04:02 -0400 Subject: Question on Ukrainian v/w: THANKS In-Reply-To: <1205920273.9376a73cJ.Dunn@slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: Thanks to all who responded, publicly or privately. The consensus seems to be that Ukrainian has only [w] in syllable-final (and word-final) position, but does have [v] elsewhere, and that this [v] is not subject to devoicing before voiceless consonants. Thus, вовк = [vowk], not [wowk], [vovk], or [vofk]. The wikipedia article I cited would appear to be in error. Experts are invited to correct it as necessary. > -----Original Message----- > From: "Paul B. Gallagher" > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:36:28 -0400 > Subject: [SEELANGS] Question on Ukrainian v/w > > I was perusing this cursory description of Ukrainian phonology: > > and there doesn't seem to be any mention of [v]. > > Is this right? Ukrainian has no [v]~[f], only /ʋ/ = [ʋ]? E.g., вовк = > [ʋoʋk]([wowk] for those who cannot read IPA)? > > TIA. > -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wolsen at NOBLENETWORK.ORG Tue Mar 25 19:54:20 2008 From: wolsen at NOBLENETWORK.ORG (Olsen, William) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 14:54:20 -0500 Subject: High School Russian Position In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Noble Street College Prep is seeking a Russian teacher to start August 2008 or possibly sooner. Noble Street Charter High School in Chicago is looking for a talented, creative, and persistent Russian teacher to teach beginning high school Russian. Be part of a high-achieving team of dedicated educators who work relentlessly to prepare low-income students for college. Apply on-line at noblenetwork.org for the position at Noble Street College Prep. Bill Olsen Principal Noble Street Charter High School 1010 N Noble Chicago, IL 60622 (773) 862-1449 ext. 201 wolsen at goldentigers.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jwilson at SRAS.ORG Wed Mar 26 04:56:27 2008 From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:56:27 +0300 Subject: Siberia: Lost in Translation? Message-ID: Dear Seelangers, I recently had the occasion to look up "Siberia" in Russian and English. It seems that every English language dictionary defines Siberia as running from the Urals to the Pacific. Russian dictionaries, however, have Siberia running only "do gornyx khrbtov tikhookeanskogo vodorazdela." The difference is fairly substantial. In speaking with Russians, it seems that none of them would consider Chukotka, Kamchatka, or Khabarovsk to be Siberia. One woman who I know in Blagoveshensk actually went on at length about how tour companies in her city bill it as being in Siberia - and about how they are wrong - very, very wrong. Does anyone know the historical explanation as to why "Siberia" in English seems to be much bigger than "Sibir'" in Russian? Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET Wed Mar 26 06:45:36 2008 From: sarahhurst at ALASKA.NET (Sarah Hurst) Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2008 22:45:36 -0800 Subject: Siberia: Lost in Translation? In-Reply-To: <200803260456.m2Q4uRcs022135@alinga.com> Message-ID: The article about Siberia on Wikipedia is quite good: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia I think people are probably more adamant now about the Far East not being part of Siberia because Siberia and the Far East have been separated into different federal districts. I don’t know, though, whether historically people in the Far East have ever complained about being called Siberia like the woman in Blagoveshchensk that you mention. Sarah Hurst -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Josh Wilson Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 8:56 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] Siberia: Lost in Translation? Dear Seelangers, I recently had the occasion to look up "Siberia" in Russian and English. It seems that every English language dictionary defines Siberia as running from the Urals to the Pacific. Russian dictionaries, however, have Siberia running only "do gornyx khrbtov tikhookeanskogo vodorazdela." The difference is fairly substantial. In speaking with Russians, it seems that none of them would consider Chukotka, Kamchatka, or Khabarovsk to be Siberia. One woman who I know in Blagoveshensk actually went on at length about how tour companies in her city bill it as being in Siberia - and about how they are wrong - very, very wrong. Does anyone know the historical explanation as to why "Siberia" in English seems to be much bigger than "Sibir'" in Russian? Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1342 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 10:26 AM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.0/1342 - Release Date: 3/25/2008 10:26 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Wed Mar 26 08:51:13 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:51:13 -0400 Subject: Siberia: Lost in Translation? In-Reply-To: <000301c88f0d$00716f40$0101a8c0@Bitches> Message-ID: Sarah Hurst wrote: > The article about Siberia on Wikipedia is quite good: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia > > I think people are probably more adamant now about the Far East not being > part of Siberia because Siberia and the Far East have been separated into > different federal districts. I don’t know, though, whether historically > people in the Far East have ever complained about being called Siberia like > the woman in Blagoveshchensk that you mention. The etymology appears to offer no basis for delineation, which must have come later: -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hhalva at MINDSPRING.COM Wed Mar 26 11:34:01 2008 From: hhalva at MINDSPRING.COM (Helen Halva) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:34:01 -0400 Subject: kolossalische Skandal In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here is a potential answer from my personal German-language consultant: (There may be other takes on this as well) Helen Halva I do not know anything about Chekhov's "The man in a case", but "kolossalische Skandal" is not a correct German expression. From my (totally unprofessional) experience with German and neighbouring literature, I could imagine two possibilities 1) it is a Dutch phrase, either old-fashioned or contemporary 2) it could be a phrase used around 1900, but mocking the (grammatically correct) expression "kolossaler Skandal" The word "kolossal" (meaning the same as "colossal") was used mainly in Berlin and surrounding areas at the beginning of the 20th century. Nowadays, it would be used in a non-serious context only. It is possible that the expression "kolossalischer Skandal" in a book would be used by a lower-class (uneducated) person, who would have misconstructed the correct expression in a vain attempt to use a fashionable term. By making this mistake, the person's low level of education would have become obvious to everybody. Wladimir Shatsev wrote: > Dear > Seelangers, > > > > > > Does anyone > know about the German or pseudo-German phrase from Chekhov�s The Man in a Case? � > > > < �>���� > �� ����� �� ��������� kolossalische > Skandal�. > > > > > > Do you think > it can be a quotation or whatever? If this is a quotation where do you think it > is from? Any suggestions about the origin of the phrase? How this could > charcterize the person saying it? > > > > > > I > understand that > Dear > Seelangers, > > > > > > Does anyone > know about the German or pseudo-German phrase from Chekhov�s The Man in a Case? � > > > < �>���� > �� ����� �� ��������� kolossalische > Skandal�. > > > > > > Do you think > it can be a quotation or whatever? If this is a quotation where do you think it > is from? Any suggestions about the origin of the phrase? How this could > charcterize the person saying it? > > > > > > I > understand that kolossalische Skandal sounds not quite Grammatical. > Is such an expression as kolossalle Skandal really exist ? > > > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > Regards, Vladimir Shatsev. > > > > > Regards, > > > > Vladimir Shatsev > sounds not quite Grammatical. > Is such an expression as kolossalle Skandal really exist ? > > > > > > Thank you in advance. > > > Regards, > Vladimir Shatsev. > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself with free Messenger emoticons. Get them today! > http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207 > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From sarah at DUNCKER.CO.UK Wed Mar 26 11:58:06 2008 From: sarah at DUNCKER.CO.UK (Sarah J Young) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:58:06 -0000 Subject: Siberia: Lost in Translation? Message-ID: I'm not sure this is a particularly recent distinction, or one based primarily on federal identites. Shalamov, for example, never refers to Kolyma as 'Sibir'', but rather places them in opposition--Kolyma is always and only Kolyma, 'Sibir'' is the mainland [materik]. Sarah Young SSEES, UCL Gower Street London WC1E 6BT ---- Original Message ---- From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Siberia: Lost in Translation? Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 04:51:13 -0400 >Sarah Hurst wrote: > >> The article about Siberia on Wikipedia is quite good: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberia >> >> I think people are probably more adamant now about the Far East not >being >> part of Siberia because Siberia and the Far East have been >separated into >> different federal districts. I don’t know, though, whether >historically >> people in the Far East have ever complained about being called >Siberia like >> the woman in Blagoveshchensk that you mention. > >The etymology appears to offer no basis for delineation, which must >have >come later: >share%2Fstarling%2Fmorpho&morpho=1&basename=%5Cusr%5Clocal%5Cshare%5C >starling%5Cmorpho%5Cvasmer%5Cvasmer&first=1&text_word=%D1%81%D0%B8%D0 >%B1%D0%B8%D1%80%D1%8C&method_word=substring> > >-- >War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. >-- >Paul B. Gallagher >pbg translations, inc. >"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" >http://pbg-translations.com > >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface >at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >--------------------------------------------------------------------- >---- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Wed Mar 26 13:08:35 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:08:35 -0400 Subject: Siberia: Lost in Translation? In-Reply-To: <380-22008332611586890@duncker.co.uk> Message-ID: Sarah J Young wrote: > I'm not sure this is a particularly recent distinction, or one based > primarily on federal identites. Shalamov, for example, never refers > to Kolyma as 'Sibir'', but rather places them in opposition--Kolyma > is always and only Kolyma, 'Sibir'' is the mainland [materik]. It need not be "particularly recent," as the name goes back to the 13th century. The Russians probably didn't even know Kolyma existed for at least five centuries after that. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From simmonsc at BC.EDU Wed Mar 26 13:17:56 2008 From: simmonsc at BC.EDU (Cynthia Simmons) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 09:17:56 -0400 Subject: Replacement position Message-ID: Visiting Position in Russian and Slavic Literatures Boston College, Chestnut Hill, MA Replacement position for the AY 2008-2009 for 2 literature courses in the fall of 2008, with the possibility of 1 literature course in the spring of 2009. Fall literature courses are 1) “Literature of the Other Europe” and 2) “Humor and Satire in Russian Literature.” Please send a letter of application, c.v., and three current letters of reference to Prof. Cynthia Simmons, Department of Slavic and Eastern Languages and Literatures, Lyons Hall 210, Chestnut Hill, MA 02467, or simmonsc at bc.edu, to arrive no later than April 21, 2008. Boston College is an equal-opportunity employer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From h.p.houtzagers at RUG.NL Wed Mar 26 15:26:40 2008 From: h.p.houtzagers at RUG.NL (Peter Houtzagers) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:26:40 +0100 Subject: kolossalische Skandal In-Reply-To: <47EA34A9.7060505@mindspring.com> Message-ID: There is nothing Dutch about "kolossalische Skandal". My Duden lists "kolossalisch" as a synonym of "kolossal", qualifying it as "gehoben". The only "strange" thing is the lacking final -r, which is no problem if the adjective is preceded by a definite article. Why shouldn't it just be German? Peter Houtzagers > > I do not know anything about Chekhov's "The man in a case", but > "kolossalische Skandal" is not a correct German expression. > From my (totally unprofessional) experience with German and > neighbouring literature, I could imagine two possibilities > > 1) it is a Dutch phrase, either old-fashioned or contemporary > 2) it could be a phrase used around 1900, but mocking the > (grammatically correct) expression "kolossaler Skandal" > The word "kolossal" (meaning the same as "colossal") was used mainly > in Berlin and surrounding areas at the beginning of the 20th century. > Nowadays, it would be used in a non-serious context only. > It is possible that the expression "kolossalischer Skandal" in a book > would be used by a lower-class (uneducated) person, who would have > misconstructed the correct expression in a vain attempt to use a > fashionable term. By making this mistake, the person's low level of > education would have become obvious to everybody. > > > > > > Wladimir Shatsev wrote: > >> Dear >> Seelangers, >> >> >> >> >> >> Does anyone >> know about the German or pseudo-German phrase from Chekhov�s The Man >> in a Case? � >> >> >> < �>���� >> �� ����� �� ��������� kolossalische Skandal�. >> >> >> >> >> >> Do you think >> it can be a quotation or whatever? If this is a quotation where do >> you think it >> is from? Any suggestions about the origin of the phrase? How this could >> charcterize the person saying it? >> >> >> >> >> >> I >> understand that Dear >> Seelangers, >> >> >> >> >> >> Does anyone >> know about the German or pseudo-German phrase from Chekhov�s The Man >> in a Case? � >> >> >> < �>���� >> �� ����� �� ��������� kolossalische Skandal�. >> >> >> >> >> >> Do you think >> it can be a quotation or whatever? If this is a quotation where do >> you think it >> is from? Any suggestions about the origin of the phrase? How this could >> charcterize the person saying it? >> >> >> >> >> >> I >> understand that kolossalische Skandal sounds not quite Grammatical. >> Is such an expression as kolossalle Skandal really exist ? >> >> >> >> >> Thank you in advance. >> >> Regards, Vladimir Shatsev. >> >> >> >> >> Regards, >> >> >> >> Vladimir Shatsev >> sounds not quite Grammatical. >> Is such an expression as kolossalle Skandal really exist ? >> >> >> >> >> Thank you in advance. >> >> Regards, Vladimir Shatsev. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Express yourself with free Messenger emoticons. Get them today! >> http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207 >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hhalva at MINDSPRING.COM Wed Mar 26 18:29:29 2008 From: hhalva at MINDSPRING.COM (Helen Halva) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 14:29:29 -0400 Subject: kolossalische Skandal In-Reply-To: <47EA6B30.5050307@rug.nl> Message-ID: Dutch was possibility #1, obviously not correct. Possibility #2 potentially describes the German in the original conjecture. Peter Houtzagers wrote: > There is nothing Dutch about "kolossalische Skandal". My Duden lists > "kolossalisch" as a synonym of "kolossal", qualifying it as "gehoben". > The only "strange" thing is the lacking final -r, which is no problem > if the adjective is preceded by a definite article. Why shouldn't it > just be German? > > Peter Houtzagers > >> >> I do not know anything about Chekhov's "The man in a case", but >> "kolossalische Skandal" is not a correct German expression. >> From my (totally unprofessional) experience with German and >> neighbouring literature, I could imagine two possibilities >> >> 1) it is a Dutch phrase, either old-fashioned or contemporary >> 2) it could be a phrase used around 1900, but mocking the >> (grammatically correct) expression "kolossaler Skandal" >> The word "kolossal" (meaning the same as "colossal") was used mainly >> in Berlin and surrounding areas at the beginning of the 20th century. >> Nowadays, it would be used in a non-serious context only. >> It is possible that the expression "kolossalischer Skandal" in a book >> would be used by a lower-class (uneducated) person, who would have >> misconstructed the correct expression in a vain attempt to use a >> fashionable term. By making this mistake, the person's low level of >> education would have become obvious to everybody. >> >> >> >> >> >> Wladimir Shatsev wrote: >> >>> Dear >>> Seelangers, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Does anyone >>> know about the German or pseudo-German phrase from Chekhov�s The >>> Man in a Case? � >>> >>> >>> < �>���� >>> �� ����� �� ��������� kolossalische Skandal�. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Do you think >>> it can be a quotation or whatever? If this is a quotation where do >>> you think it >>> is from? Any suggestions about the origin of the phrase? How this could >>> charcterize the person saying it? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I >>> understand that Dear >>> Seelangers, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Does anyone >>> know about the German or pseudo-German phrase from Chekhov�s The >>> Man in a Case? � >>> >>> >>> < �>���� >>> �� ����� �� ��������� kolossalische Skandal�. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Do you think >>> it can be a quotation or whatever? If this is a quotation where do >>> you think it >>> is from? Any suggestions about the origin of the phrase? How this could >>> charcterize the person saying it? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> I >>> understand that kolossalische Skandal sounds not quite Grammatical. >>> Is such an expression as kolossalle Skandal really exist ? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you in advance. >>> >>> Regards, Vladimir Shatsev. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> >>> >>> Vladimir Shatsev >>> sounds not quite Grammatical. >>> Is such an expression as kolossalle Skandal really exist ? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Thank you in advance. >>> >>> Regards, Vladimir Shatsev. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Express yourself with free Messenger emoticons. Get them today! >>> http://g.msn.ca/ca55/207 >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >>> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From irinadubinina at YAHOO.COM Wed Mar 26 18:46:57 2008 From: irinadubinina at YAHOO.COM (Irina Dubinina) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 11:46:57 -0700 Subject: Siberia: Lost in Translation? In-Reply-To: <200803260456.m2Q4uRcs022135@alinga.com> Message-ID: As a Far-Easterner, I absolutely agree with Josh's friend from Blagoveschensk. I was born and raised in the Far East and would never call myself, nor would be called by another Russian "a Siberian". At some point in my life I stumbled on an article that shed light on the origin of differences in the names used for the region in the West and in Russia. Unfortunately, I don't remember either the author or the title of the article, but the gist is: the word Siberia used to refer to the entire region since the beginning of the eastward expansion beyond the Urals. But the territory turned out to be too big, and other terms were used to describe its various parts: e.g., krainii severo-vostok (1885) or zemli "kotorye prilegli k Sibirskoi storone" (1727) or Sibir i (!) dalnii vostok together (from wikipedia article on the Russian Far East). The article whose author I don't remember claimed that the word Sibir stuck in the West (is it the same in let's say German?) while in Russia both terms continued to be used: Sibir and Far East. There were no official boundaries between the two regions until recently; they have existed mainly in the minds of the people. To me, Siberia is almost as far away as Moscow: I had to fly for 6 hours to get to Novosibirsk and another 3 hours to Moscow. So the distinction is not that recent, it must have existed since the end of the 19th century at least. Kolyma does not mean the Far East, it means either "the Magadan region" or by metonymy the labor camps (and not only under Stalin; some of them continued as labor camps for ugolovniki later in the Soviet period)). Kolyma has been known to the Russians at least since 1639 when Dezhnev sailed from its mouth around the northeastern tip of Eurasia through the strait which was later named after Bering. Best wishes, Irina Dubinina Josh Wilson wrote: Dear Seelangers, I recently had the occasion to look up "Siberia" in Russian and English. It seems that every English language dictionary defines Siberia as running from the Urals to the Pacific. Russian dictionaries, however, have Siberia running only "do gornyx khrbtov tikhookeanskogo vodorazdela." The difference is fairly substantial. In speaking with Russians, it seems that none of them would consider Chukotka, Kamchatka, or Khabarovsk to be Siberia. One woman who I know in Blagoveshensk actually went on at length about how tour companies in her city bill it as being in Siberia - and about how they are wrong - very, very wrong. Does anyone know the historical explanation as to why "Siberia" in English seems to be much bigger than "Sibir'" in Russian? Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Thu Mar 27 01:50:17 2008 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 21:50:17 -0400 Subject: Shut down of Russian programs In-Reply-To: <80628.19011.qm@web53506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am posting this on behalf of Dr. Emily Tall. Please reply directly to her at MLLEMILY at buffalo.edu Sincerely, Edward Dumanis ----------------------------------------------------------- Can you tell me where I can find information on Russian language, literature and history programs at U.S. universities? A friend of mine told me she heard that after the collapse of the Soviet Union, 90% of programs were shut down. That sounds like nonsense to me. Can anyone tell me where I can find information to counter that claim? Thank you. Former member Emily Tall (please reply directly to me at mllemily at buffalo.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Larissa.Rudova at POMONA.EDU Thu Mar 27 02:01:07 2008 From: Larissa.Rudova at POMONA.EDU (Larissa Rudova) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 19:01:07 -0700 Subject: Slavica Occitania: Call for proposals In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, The French scholarly journal Slavica Occitania intends to publish a special issue devoted to the encounters (actions and reactions) of different religions in multiconfessional Russia. The frame is limited to the ex-Russian Empire and the USRR. The aim of this special issue is to study confrontations and combinations of different religions (two or more). The study can be based on the biography of an oustanding person who played an important role in the religion life in Russia, or a special historical context. Languages of the paper - French and English. Papers in English will be translated. Deadline for papers is March 1, 2009. For information, please contact : Dany Savelli, Université de Toulouse dany.savelli at wanadoo.fr or Boris Czerny, Université de Caen (France) BCzerny at aol.com ------------------------------------------------------------- This message has been scanned by Postini anti-virus software. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tol at BRILL.NL Thu Mar 27 08:17:15 2008 From: tol at BRILL.NL (Sijmen Tol) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 03:17:15 -0500 Subject: Translation needed (Romanian) Message-ID: Dear SEELANGers, Is there anybody who could translate for me a short (8 lines) Romanian song text into English or any other language a Dutch slavist may be supposed to understand? My choir members would be happy to know what we are going to sing. Please react off-list to tol at brill.nl Sijmen Tol Linguistic Bibliography tol at brill.nl www.blonline.nl ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK Thu Mar 27 12:21:34 2008 From: J.Dunn at SLAVONIC.ARTS.GLA.AC.UK (John Dunn) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:21:34 +0100 Subject: Siberia: Lost in Translation? Message-ID: Brokgauz-Efron's Malyj enciklopedicheskij slovar', vol. IV, coll. 1441-3 (SPb, 1909), defines the eastern boundary of Siberia as being Russia's far-eastern coastline. As far as I can make out from its concise account of the area's administrative history, Siberia stretching as far as the Pacific seems to have been a single administrative unit up until 1821 and even thereafter the three gubernii set up in that year seem to have been regarded as belonging to the same distinctive category. John Dunn. ----- From: Josh Wilson To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:56:27 +0300 Subject: [SEELANGS] Siberia: Lost in Translation? Dear Seelangers, I recently had the occasion to look up "Siberia" in Russian and English. It seems that every English language dictionary defines Siberia as running from the Urals to the Pacific. Russian dictionaries, however, have Siberia running only "do gornyx khrbtov tikhookeanskogo vodorazdela." The difference is fairly substantial. In speaking with Russians, it seems that none of them would consider Chukotka, Kamchatka, or Khabarovsk to be Siberia. One woman who I know in Blagoveshensk actually went on at length about how tour companies in her city bill it as being in Siberia - and about how they are wrong - very, very wrong. Does anyone know the historical explanation as to why "Siberia" in English seems to be much bigger than "Sibir'" in Russian? Josh Wilson Asst. Director The School of Russian and Asian Studies Editor-in-Chief Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies www.sras.org jwilson at sras.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Dunn Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) University of Glasgow, Scotland Address: Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 40137 Bologna Italy Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From n.bermel at SHEFFIELD.AC.UK Wed Mar 26 16:52:01 2008 From: n.bermel at SHEFFIELD.AC.UK (Neil Bermel) Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 16:52:01 +0000 Subject: Fixed-term lecturer (assistant professor), Russian literature, U. of Sheffield, UK Message-ID: Dear SEELANGS, The Department of Russian and Slavonic Studies at the University of Sheffield is seeking to appoint a lecturer (North American equivalent: assistant professor) for a fixed term of just over a year, to provide cover during the research leave of Professor Evgeny Dobrenko. An ability to teach nineteenth-century Russian literature is essential; an ability to teach twentieth-century and contemporary Russian literature will be an advantage. The successful applicant will be expected to undertake some Russian language teaching at appropriate undergraduate levels. In research, it is expected that the lecturer will have an established or developing profile in Russian nineteenth and/or twentieth-century literature or culture. Candidates should have completed, or be about to complete, a PhD in some aspect of nineteenth- or twentieth-century Russian literature or culture (or have equivalent qualifications). The post is tenable for the period 1 August 2008 to 30 November 2009 at a salary of £33,779 per annum (roughly US $67,000). For information about the post and how to apply, please see the particulars at: http://www.sheffield.ac.uk/jobs/academic.html (post R06129). Informal enquiries can be addressed to me at n.bermel at sheffield.ac.uk . The closing date for applications is 14 April 2008. Best regards, Neil Bermel ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Thu Mar 27 16:04:33 2008 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 16:04:33 +0000 Subject: Siberia: Lost in Translation? In-Reply-To: <1206620494.4037d0bcJ.Dunn@slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: I have just dug out my copy of vol. 2 of Aziatskaia Rossiia, SPb, 1914 (I don't have vol. 1, alas), a fairly lavish illustrated official publication, and in view of the date perhaps one of the last such publications before the Revolution. The usage within the volume is a bit inconsistent, but in general it suggests that Siberia was understood then as stretching from the Urals to the Pacific. On p. 6 of the introduction I found 'Kamchatka ... imeet bolee tepluiu zimu ... chem ostal'naia chast' Sibiri.' The book also contains a reproduction of a polar projection map by Lomonosov which shows that in the 18th c. Sibir' extended from the Urals to Kamchatka. I have found some Russian books which continue this historical usage, but the official Russian geographical definition at present seems to be that the Pacific watershed (not a very precise line) is the current eastern boundary and that Siberia and the Russian Far East are distinct entities. MSN World Atlas and many other English-language reference works include Kamchatka in E. Siberia. All this seems to suggest that Siberia is/was whatever the government of Russia, cartographers, geographers, encyclopedia compilers etc say/said it is/was (but not always in agreement), and subjectively it may be whatever the various inhabitants of trans-Uralic Russia think it is. Which is just about as precise as the line of the Pacific watershed. Will Ryan John Dunn wrote: > Brokgauz-Efron's Malyj enciklopedicheskij slovar', vol. IV, coll. 1441-3 (SPb, 1909), defines the eastern boundary of Siberia as being Russia's far-eastern coastline. As far as I can make out from its concise account of the area's administrative history, Siberia stretching as far as the Pacific seems to have been a single administrative unit up until 1821 and even thereafter the three gubernii set up in that year seem to have been regarded as belonging to the same distinctive category. > > John Dunn. > > ----- > From: Josh Wilson > To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu > Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 07:56:27 +0300 > Subject: [SEELANGS] Siberia: Lost in Translation? > > Dear Seelangers, > > > > I recently had the occasion to look up "Siberia" in Russian and English. It > seems that every English language dictionary defines Siberia as running from > the Urals to the Pacific. Russian dictionaries, however, have Siberia > running only "do gornyx khrbtov tikhookeanskogo vodorazdela." The difference > is fairly substantial. > > > > In speaking with Russians, it seems that none of them would consider > Chukotka, Kamchatka, or Khabarovsk to be Siberia. One woman who I know in > Blagoveshensk actually went on at length about how tour companies in her > city bill it as being in Siberia - and about how they are wrong - very, very > wrong. > > > > Does anyone know the historical explanation as to why "Siberia" in English > seems to be much bigger than "Sibir'" in Russian? > > > > > > Josh Wilson > > Asst. Director > > The School of Russian and Asian Studies > > Editor-in-Chief > > Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies > > www.sras.org > > jwilson at sras.org > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > John Dunn > Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies) > University of Glasgow, Scotland > > Address: > Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6 > 40137 Bologna > Italy > Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661 > e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk > johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From slavicalendar at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 27 16:54:08 2008 From: slavicalendar at GMAIL.COM (Slavic Department) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:54:08 -0500 Subject: Slavic Linguistics Lecturer Position - Univ. of Chicago Message-ID: The Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures of the University of Chicago welcomes applications for a full-time lectureship in Slavic linguistics beginning 1 October 2008. Specialization in Historical Linguistics is preferred with an anticipated teaching load of six courses over the course of the academic year. At least two of these courses will be Old Church Slavonic and Old Norse. Other courses may include Comparative Slavic and Early Russian Literature (1300-1700). Knowledge of the history of East Slavic, West Slavic, and/or Baltic linguistics is desirable but not required. Candidates with Ph.D. in hand will be preferred. Please submit a current curriculum vitae and a cover letter including names of references to: Slavic Linguistics Search Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Chicago 1130 East 59th Street Chicago, IL 60637-1539 Electronic submissions should be sent to: slavic-department at uchicago.edu. Review of applications will begin on 1 May 2008. The University of Chicago is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity Employer. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From slavicalendar at GMAIL.COM Thu Mar 27 16:54:15 2008 From: slavicalendar at GMAIL.COM (Slavic Department) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 11:54:15 -0500 Subject: Russian Literature Lecturer Position - Univ. of Chicago Message-ID: The University of Chicago The Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures of the University of Chicago welcomes applications for a full-time lectureship in Russian literature beginning 1 October 2008. Specialization in Soviet and contemporary Russian literature/culture is preferred with an anticipated teaching load of six courses over the course of the academic year. The successful candidate will be expected to contribute to the humanities Core and to our year-long survey of Russian literature in addition to teaching topical seminars at the undergraduate and graduate levels. Candidates with Ph.D. in hand will be preferred. Please submit a current curriculum vitae, a cover letter including names of references, and a writing sample to: Russian Literature Search Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Chicago 1130 East 59th Street Chicago, IL 60637-1539 All materials must be sent in hard copy. Review of applications will begin on 1 May 2008. The University of Chicago is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From eclowes at KU.EDU Thu Mar 27 18:12:11 2008 From: eclowes at KU.EDU (edith clowes) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 13:12:11 -0500 Subject: Slavic Linguistics Lecturer Position - Univ. of Chicago In-Reply-To: <55ddb4ca0803270954g465a1bd9u28d68ae620583932@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: FYI, ewc >The Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures of the University of >Chicago welcomes applications for a full-time lectureship in Slavic >linguistics beginning 1 October 2008. Specialization in Historical >Linguistics is preferred with an anticipated teaching load of six courses >over the course of the academic year. At least two of these courses will be >Old Church Slavonic and Old Norse. Other courses may include Comparative >Slavic and Early Russian Literature (1300-1700). Knowledge of the history of >East Slavic, West Slavic, and/or Baltic linguistics is desirable but not >required. Candidates with Ph.D. in hand will be preferred. Please submit a >current curriculum vitae and a cover letter including names of references >to: > >Slavic Linguistics Search >Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures >University of Chicago >1130 East 59th Street >Chicago, IL 60637-1539 > >Electronic submissions should be sent to: slavic-department at uchicago.edu. >Review of applications will begin on 1 May 2008. > >The University of Chicago is an Affirmative Action/Equal Opportunity >Employer. > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Edith W. Clowes, Professor and Director of Graduate Studies Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures 2140 Wescoe Hall University of Kansas 1445 Jayhawk Blvd. Lawrence, KS 66045-7590 tel.: 785-864-2359 fax: 785-864-4298 http://www2.ku.edu/~slavic/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU Thu Mar 27 19:24:07 2008 From: dumanis at BUFFALO.EDU (Edward M Dumanis) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 15:24:07 -0400 Subject: Siberia: Lost in Translation? In-Reply-To: <47EBC591.5060905@sas.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Thu, 27 Mar 2008, William Ryan wrote: ..................../snip/...................... > 18th c. Sibir' extended from the Urals to Kamchatka. I have found some > Russian books which continue this historical usage, but the official Russian > geographical definition at present seems to be that the Pacific watershed > (not a very precise line) is the current eastern boundary and that Siberia > and the Russian Far East are distinct entities. I am wondering whether this ambiguity is due to the fact that in the 1920s there was a formally distinct state entity there called "Dal'nevostochnaja Respublika" (DVR). Then the eastern border of the Soviet Russia (and the Soviet Siberia, as a consequence) would not go all the way to the Pacific but would end at the western border of the DVR. Sincerely, Edward Dumanis ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kevin.windle at ANU.EDU.AU Thu Mar 27 22:18:07 2008 From: kevin.windle at ANU.EDU.AU (Kevin Windle) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 09:18:07 +1100 Subject: Siberia: Lost in Translation? In-Reply-To: A<1206620494.4037d0bcJ.Dunn@slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk> Message-ID: The 22-volume Bol'shaia entsiklopediia (SPb, c. 1900) pod. red. S. N. Iuzhakova, vol. 17, p. 334, says, 'granitsy S. ponimaiutsia ves'ma razlichno... Zdes' pod S. razumeetsia vsia obshirnaia oblast' severnoi Azii ... i imeiushchaia estestven. granitsami na vostoke chasti Velikago okeana (Okhotskoe i Beringovoe [sic] moria), na severe Ledovityi okean ...' The accompanying map includes Amurskaia oblast' and Primorskaia oblast', which covered Chukotka and Kamchatka, which is all very different from modern usage. Kevin Windle -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of John Dunn Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2008 11:22 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Siberia: Lost in Translation? Brokgauz-Efron's Malyj enciklopedicheskij slovar', vol. IV, coll. 1441-3 (SPb, 1909), defines the eastern boundary of Siberia as being Russia's far-eastern coastline. As far as I can make out from its concise account of the area's administrative history, Siberia stretching as far as the Pacific seems to have been a single administrative unit up until 1821 and even thereafter the three gubernii set up in that year seem to have been regarded as belonging to the same distinctive category. John Dunn. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dr K. M. Windle, Reader, School of Language Studies, Faculty of Arts, Australian National University, Canberra, A.C.T. 0200, Australia Telephone: (61) (02) 6125-2885 Fax: (61) (02) 6125-3252 E-mail: Kevin.Windle at anu.edu.au ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jcw2119 at COLUMBIA.EDU Fri Mar 28 03:54:53 2008 From: jcw2119 at COLUMBIA.EDU (John Cataldo Wright) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 23:54:53 -0400 Subject: scorched earth In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear SEELANGS, Could anyone suggest any resources in English or Russian about Soviet policies/practices during WWII that would fall under the "scorched earth" heading? I would appreciate any replies on- or off-list. Many thanks. John Wright ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From danewton at U.WASHINGTON.EDU Fri Mar 28 04:18:12 2008 From: danewton at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (Dan Newton) Date: Thu, 27 Mar 2008 21:18:12 -0700 Subject: heroin Message-ID: Does any of you happen to know any Russian street slang for "heroin"? Thank you in advance, Dan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK Fri Mar 28 08:56:34 2008 From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:56:34 +0000 Subject: heroin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Dan, Do check this website: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/?????_?????????? All best, Alexandra ========================================== Alexandra Smith (PhD, University of London) Lecturer in Russian School of European Languages and Cultures The University of Edinburgh David Hume Tower George Square Edinburgh EX8 9JX UK tel. +44-(0)131-6511381 fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604 e-mail: Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk Quoting Dan Newton : > Does any of you happen to know any Russian street slang for "heroin"? > Thank you in advance, > Dan > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK Fri Mar 28 10:20:55 2008 From: Alexandra.Smith at ED.AC.UK (Alexandra Smith) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:20:55 +0000 Subject: heroin In-Reply-To: <20080328085634.po7cnkkn6swwoo8w@www.staffmail.ed.ac.uk> Message-ID: Sorry for the Russian part that didn't come out at all: you should type in Russian in the end: Sleng_narkomanov http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Сленг_наркоманов > Dear Dan, > > Do check this website: http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/?????_?????????? > > All best, > Alexandra > > > The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in > Scotland, with registration number SC005336. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- The University of Edinburgh is a charitable body, registered in Scotland, with registration number SC005336. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jtishler at WISC.EDU Fri Mar 28 13:58:22 2008 From: jtishler at WISC.EDU (JENNIFER R TISHLER) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 08:58:22 -0500 Subject: Need citation for "Bronze Horseman" translation Message-ID: I'm trying to track down the bibliographical information for an English translation of Pushkin's "The Bronze Horseman." I have a photocopy of the poem, given to me by a colleague several semesters ago. It's a solid prose translation and I'd like to include it in a course reader for a fall class, but I don't know the translator, publisher, year, etc. Here are the clues I can provide: 1. text begins on page 247 and ends on 257 2. On page 247 the text begins with "THE BRONZE HORSEMAN" in all caps. Under that is written "A Tale of St Petersburg" (in italics) and under that appears the word "Introduction," in a smaller font and also in italics. 3. The first two lines of the translation read: "On a shore washed by desolate waves, he stood. / Full of high thoughts, and gazed into the distance." Thanks in advance, SEELANGers, for your collective wisdom. -Jennifer --------------------------- Jennifer Ryan Tishler, Ph.D. Associate Director Center for Russia, East Europe, and Central Asia (CREECA) 210 Ingraham Hall 1155 Observatory Drive University of Wisconsin-Madison Madison, WI 53706 Phone: (608) 262-3379 Fax: (608) 890-0267 http://www.creeca.wisc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From xmas at UKR.NET Fri Mar 28 05:14:51 2008 From: xmas at UKR.NET (Maria Dmytrieva) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 07:14:51 +0200 Subject: heroin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: the most widely used is герыч. Wikipedia gives these variants: Гера, Герыч, Герман, Гертруда — героин. http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Сленг_наркоманов With best regada, Maria Від кого: Dan Newton Does any of you happen to know any Russian street slang for "heroin"? Thank you in advance, Dan ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lypark at UIUC.EDU Fri Mar 28 15:07:21 2008 From: lypark at UIUC.EDU (Lynda Park) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 10:07:21 -0500 Subject: PROG. INFO- 2008 Summer Research Lab, U Illinois, deadlines: April 1 & 15 Message-ID: 2008 Summer Research Laboratory on Russia, Eastern Europe, and Eurasia June 9 - August 1 University of Illinois The Russian, East European, and Eurasian Center and the Slavic and East European Library at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, are pleased to announce its 2008 Summer Research Laboratory (SRL) on Russia, Eastern Europe, and Eurasia, June 9 - August 1. Please check the website for the full list of programs, eligibility, and application information: http://www.reec.uiuc.edu/srl/srl.html The SRL enables scholars to conduct advanced research in Russian, East European and Eurasian Studies. Lab associates are given full access to the collection and resources of the University of Illinois Library, the largest Slavic collection west of Washington, DC, and are able to seek assistance from the Slavic Reference Service staff. The SRL provides an opportunity for specialists to keep current on knowledge and research in the field, to access newly available and archival materials, and disseminate knowledge to other scholars, professionals, government officials, and the public. The Summer Lab is an ideal program for doctoral students conducting pre-dissertation/dissertation research. The following persons are eligible to apply to the Summer Lab: - Faculty or graduate students at a university or college who are teaching and/or doing research on the region. - Individuals who have a PhD and are doing research on the region, even if this expertise is not being used in current employment. - Individuals working in an area of government, NGOs or business related to the region, regardless of academic training. - Librarians specializing in the Slavic, East European, and Eurasian field. To be eligible for housing grants, the above criteria apply along with the following: Scholars conducting policy relevant research (broadly defined) on the countries of Eurasia and Southeastern Europe. Under U.S. Department of State regulations, scholars whose research focuses on any EU member state­Poland, Hungary, the Czech Republic, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Romania, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, or Lithuania­must be doing comparative research that includes a non EU member state of Eurasia or Southeastern Europe in order to be eligible for funding. Application Deadlines: Housing Grants: for non-U.S. citizens/permanent residents 1 April for U.S. citizens and permanent residents 15 April Graduate Student Travel Grants: for U.S. citizens and permanent residents only 15 April Lab Only (no housing grant): for guaranteed housing availability 15 April, or at least 2 weeks prior to arrival (housing not guaranteed) 2008 SUMMER RESEARCH LAB PROGRAMS http://www.reec.uiuc.edu/srl/SRL2008/programs.html Ralph and Ruth Fisher Forum "Interpreting Emotion in Eastern Europe, Russia, and Eurasia" June 19-21 Faculty Organizers: Mark Steinberg (Professor of History, University of Illinois; Editor of the Slavic Review) and Valeria Sobol (Assistant Professor of Slavic Languages and Literatures, University of Illinois) Eurasia Studies Training Workshop for Junior Scholars "Gendering Democracy: Self, State, and Political Reform in Eurasia and Beyond" June 11-13 Moderator: Cynthia Buckley (Associate Professor of Sociology, University of Texas, Austin) Balkan Studies Training Workshop for Junior Scholar "Building Balkan Studies: Integrating Multidisciplinary Perspectives" June 30-July 2 Moderator: Julie Mostov (Associate Vice Provost for International Programs and Associate Professor of Political Science, Drexel University) SRS Individualized Research Practicum Duration of the Lab The Slavic Reference Service offers Individualized Research Practicum to select Summer Lab associates. Associates can apply using the SRL application. Voluntary Discussion Group: Russian History and Culture, June 9-13 Coordinator: Ann Kleimola (Professor of History, University of Nebraska) For more information contact the Russian, East European and Eurasian Center at the University of Illinois at reec at uiuc.edu, 217.333.1244. Lynda Y. Park, Associate Director Russian, East European, and Eurasian Center University of Illinois 104 International Studies Building, MC-487 910 South Fifth Street Champaign, IL 61820 (217) 333-6022, 333-1244; fax (217) 333-1582 lypark at uiuc.edu http://www.reec.uiuc.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aspektor at FAS.HARVARD.EDU Fri Mar 28 18:56:00 2008 From: aspektor at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Alex Spektor) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:56:00 -0400 Subject: Platonov's "Vprok" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Have anyone heard of the English translation of "Vprok"? Thank you. Sasha. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From bmdamare at UMICH.EDU Fri Mar 28 18:59:09 2008 From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU (bmdamare at UMICH.EDU) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 14:59:09 -0400 Subject: Need citation for "Bronze Horseman" translation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jennifer, The translation sounds like the poetic (not prose) translation done by D.M. Thomas. Maybe someone else knows the specific printing. Best, - Brad Damare' Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures University of Michigan Quoting JENNIFER R TISHLER : > I'm trying to track down the bibliographical information for an > English translation of Pushkin's "The Bronze Horseman." I have a > photocopy of the poem, given to me by a colleague several semesters > ago. It's a solid prose translation and I'd like to include it in a > course reader for a fall class, but I don't know the translator, > publisher, year, etc. Here are the clues I can provide: > 1. text begins on page 247 and ends on 257 > 2. On page 247 the text begins with "THE BRONZE HORSEMAN" in all > caps. Under that is written "A Tale of St Petersburg" (in italics) > and under that appears the word "Introduction," in a smaller font and > also in italics. > 3. The first two lines of the translation read: "On a shore washed by > desolate waves, he stood. / Full of high thoughts, and gazed into the > distance." > > Thanks in advance, SEELANGers, for your collective wisdom. > > -Jennifer > > --------------------------- > Jennifer Ryan Tishler, Ph.D. > Associate Director > Center for Russia, East Europe, and Central Asia (CREECA) > 210 Ingraham Hall > 1155 Observatory Drive > University of Wisconsin-Madison > Madison, WI 53706 > Phone: (608) 262-3379 > Fax: (608) 890-0267 > http://www.creeca.wisc.edu > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Janneke.vandeStadt at WILLIAMS.EDU Fri Mar 28 19:18:49 2008 From: Janneke.vandeStadt at WILLIAMS.EDU (Janneke van de Stadt) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:18:49 -0400 Subject: Need citation for "Bronze Horseman" translation In-Reply-To: <20080328145909.cph53bffpcwkw4kk@web.mail.umich.edu> Message-ID: Yes, indeed! It's the D. M.Thomas translation. "The Bronze Horseman and Other Poems" (Penguin Books, 1982). Jennifer, let me know if you need more info, I have it on my shelf! Janneke On Mar 28, 2008, at 2:59 PM, bmdamare at UMICH.EDU wrote: > Jennifer, > > The translation sounds like the poetic (not prose) translation done > by D.M. Thomas. Maybe someone else knows the specific printing. > > Best, > > - Brad Damare' > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Michigan > > > Quoting JENNIFER R TISHLER : > >> I'm trying to track down the bibliographical information for an >> English translation of Pushkin's "The Bronze Horseman." I have a >> photocopy of the poem, given to me by a colleague several semesters >> ago. It's a solid prose translation and I'd like to include it in a >> course reader for a fall class, but I don't know the translator, >> publisher, year, etc. Here are the clues I can provide: >> 1. text begins on page 247 and ends on 257 >> 2. On page 247 the text begins with "THE BRONZE HORSEMAN" in all >> caps. Under that is written "A Tale of St Petersburg" (in italics) >> and under that appears the word "Introduction," in a smaller font >> and also in italics. >> 3. The first two lines of the translation read: "On a shore washed >> by desolate waves, he stood. / Full of high thoughts, and gazed >> into the distance." >> >> Thanks in advance, SEELANGers, for your collective wisdom. >> >> -Jennifer >> >> --------------------------- >> Jennifer Ryan Tishler, Ph.D. >> Associate Director >> Center for Russia, East Europe, and Central Asia (CREECA) >> 210 Ingraham Hall >> 1155 Observatory Drive >> University of Wisconsin-Madison >> Madison, WI 53706 >> Phone: (608) 262-3379 >> Fax: (608) 890-0267 >> http://www.creeca.wisc.edu >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >> subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From trubikhina at AOL.COM Fri Mar 28 19:18:51 2008 From: trubikhina at AOL.COM (trubikhina at AOL.COM) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:18:51 -0400 Subject: Need citation for "Bronze Horseman" translation In-Reply-To: <20080328145909.cph53bffpcwkw4kk@web.mail.umich.edu> Message-ID: Alexander Pushkin, "The Bronze Horseman and Other Poems. Trans. with Introduction by D.M. Thomas. Penguin Books, 1982: 247-257. --------------------- Julia Trubikhina Assistant Professor of Russian Russian Program Coordinator Department of Modern Languages and Literatures Montclair State University Dickson Hall, Room 138 Montclair, NJ 07043 -----Original Message----- From: bmdamare at UMICH.EDU To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Sent: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 1:59 pm Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Need citation for "Bronze Horseman" translation Jennifer,? ? The translation sounds like the poetic (not prose) translation done by D.M. Thomas. Maybe someone else knows the specific printing.? ? Best,? ? - Brad Damare'? Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures? University of Michigan? ? Quoting JENNIFER R TISHLER :? ? > I'm trying to track down the bibliographical information for an > English translation of Pushkin's "The Bronze Horseman." I have a > photocopy of the poem, given to me by a colleague several semesters > ago. It's a solid prose translation and I'd like to include it in a > course reader for a fall class, but I don't know the translator, > publisher, year, etc. Here are the clues I can provide:? > 1. text begins on page 247 and ends on 257? > 2. On page 247 the text begins with "THE BRONZE HORSEMAN" in all > caps. Under that is written "A Tale of St Petersburg" (in italics) > and under that appears the word "Introduction," in a smaller font and > also in italics.? > 3. The first two lines of the translation read: "On a shore washed by > desolate waves, he stood. / Full of high thoughts, and gazed into the > distance."? >? > Thanks in advance, SEELANGers, for your collective wisdom.? >? > -Jennifer? >? > ---------------------------? > Jennifer Ryan Tishler, Ph.D.? > Associate Director? > Center for Russia, East Europe, and Central Asia (CREECA)? > 210 Ingraham Hall? > 1155 Observatory Drive? > University of Wisconsin-Madison? > Madison, WI 53706? > Phone: (608) 262-3379? > Fax: (608) 890-0267? > http://www.creeca.wisc.edu? >? > -------------------------------------------------------------------------? > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription? > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:? > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/? > -------------------------------------------------------------------------? >? >? >? ? -------------------------------------------------------------------------? Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription? ?options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:? ? http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/? -------------------------------------------------------------------------? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Fri Mar 28 20:21:32 2008 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:21:32 +0000 Subject: Platonov's "Vprok" In-Reply-To: <1206730560.47ed3f402f760@webmail.fas.harvard.edu> Message-ID: Ego eshche netu... R. > Have anyone heard of the English translation of "Vprok"? > Thank you. > > Sasha. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From redtaperecorder at GMAIL.COM Fri Mar 28 20:22:40 2008 From: redtaperecorder at GMAIL.COM (tim dukes) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 13:22:40 -0700 Subject: Brothers Karamazov - The Grand Inquisitor Message-ID: Hi All, Does anyone have some information on online articles or summaries that analyze Book 5, Chapter 5, 'The Grand Inquisitor' in Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov? Thanks, Tim Dukes On 3/28/08, Janneke > Jennifer, > > The translation sounds like the poetic (not prose) translation done > by D.M. Thomas. Maybe someone else knows the specific printing. > > Best, > > - Brad Damare' > Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures > University of Michigan > > > Quoting JENNIFER R TISHLER : > >> I'm trying to track down the bibliographical information for an >> English translation of Pushkin's "The Bronze Horseman." I have a >> photocopy of the poem, given to me by a colleague several semesters >> ago. It's a solid prose translation and I'd like to include it in a >> course reader for a fall class, but I don't know the translator, >> publisher, year, etc. Here are the clues I can provide: >> 1. text begins on page 247 and ends on 257 >> 2. On page 247 the text begins with "THE BRONZE HORSEMAN" in all >> caps. Under that is written "A Tale of St Petersburg" (in italics) >> and under that appears the word "Introduction," in a smaller font >> and also in italics. >> 3. The first two lines of the translation read: "On a shore washed >> by desolate waves, he stood. / Full of high thoughts, and gazed >> into the distance." >> >> Thanks in advance, SEELANGers, for your collective wisdom. >> >> -Jennifer >> >> --------------------------- >> Jennifer Ryan Tishler, Ph.D. >> Associate Director >> Center for Russia, East Europe, and Central Asia (CREECA) >> 210 Ingraham Hall >> 1155 Observatory Drive >> University of Wisconsin-Madison >> Madison, WI 53706 >> Phone: (608) 262-3379 >> Fax: (608) 890-0267 >> http://www.creeca.wisc.edu >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >> subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jpf3 at UCHICAGO.EDU Fri Mar 28 20:40:47 2008 From: jpf3 at UCHICAGO.EDU (June Farris) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 15:40:47 -0500 Subject: Brothers Karamazov - The Grand Inquisitor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Mr. Dukes, When I searched JSTOR, the full-text journal database, with the key words "Grand Inquisitor", there were over 1400 matches. When I added the key words Brothers Karamazov, the matches were reduced to 294. Of course, not all of the matches will have "The Grand Inquisitor" as their primary focus, but I'm certain that many will. Hopefully, you have access to the JSTOR database. June Farris _________________________________________ June Pachuta Farris Bibliographer for Slavic, E. European and Central Eurasian Studies Room 263 Regenstein Library 1100 E. 57th Street Chicago, IL 60637 1-773-702-8456 (phone) 1-773-702-6623 (fax) jpf3 at uchicago.edu -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of tim dukes Sent: Friday, March 28, 2008 3:23 PM To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu Subject: [SEELANGS] Brothers Karamazov - The Grand Inquisitor Hi All, Does anyone have some information on online articles or summaries that analyze Book 5, Chapter 5, 'The Grand Inquisitor' in Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov? Thanks, Tim Dukes ---------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Fri Mar 28 21:26:26 2008 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:26:26 +0000 Subject: Platonov seminar Message-ID: Dear all, There is a possibility of a seminar in Piter, in the Pushkinsky dom, in late 2008, or possibly 2009, for translators of Platonov into different languages. It would be a great help if people could give me and/or Lena Kolesnikova the names and email addresses of any Platonov translators you know ­ into any language whatsoever. Elena Kolesnikova Robert Chandler It is not, of course, essential that people¹s translations be published, or even finished. On the contrary, discussion of work in progress is very often what is most interesting. Vsego dobrogo, Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jack.franke at GMAIL.COM Sat Mar 29 04:31:28 2008 From: jack.franke at GMAIL.COM (Jack Franke) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:31:28 -0700 Subject: Russian Costumes Message-ID: Seelangers: Can anyone recommend a good reference book for Russian costumes or clothing from the 15-17 centuries? Thanks in advance, Jack Franke,Professor of Russian Assistant Dean, European and Latin American School Defense Language Institute ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From olgasteriopolo at HOTMAIL.COM Sat Mar 29 06:24:33 2008 From: olgasteriopolo at HOTMAIL.COM (Olga Steriopolo) Date: Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:24:33 -0700 Subject: New dissertation on Russian morphology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear all, This is to advertise a new Ph.D. dissertation “Form and Function of Expressive Morphology: A case study of Russian” by Olga Steriopolo. The full text of the dissertation is available at http://hdl.handle.net/2429/424 and http://www.steriopolo.com/. The abstract is copied below. DISSERTATION ABSTRACT In my Ph.D. dissertation, I conduct a detailed case study of expressive suffixes in Russian. I show that although the suffixes under investigation have the same function (“expressive”), they differ significantly in their formal properties. I identify two major semantic types of expressive suffixes: attitude and size suffixes. Attitude suffixes convey an attitude of the speaker toward the referent. Size suffixes both convey an attitude and refer to the size of the referent. I argue that the two different semantic types map onto different syntactic types. Attitude suffixes are syntactic heads, while size suffixes are syntactic modifiers. As heads, attitude suffixes determine the formal properties of the derived form. As modifiers, size suffixes do not determine the formal properties of the derived form. Attitude suffixes can attach both to category-free √Roots and to various categories (n/a/v), while size suffixes can only attach to a noun category. I investigate the functional and formal properties of Russian expressive suffixes in a systematic way, which has not been done before. In doing so, I analyze how expressive suffixes pattern along several kinds of criteria (gender/class, category, subcategorization). An important byproduct of this analysis is that I show how grammatical gender of an expressive form can be predicted from its inflectional class (combined with animacy and natural gender of the base). One implication of this analysis is that I show that the formal properties of expressives are no different from those of non-expressives (descriptives), as both expressives and descriptives can attach as heads or modifiers either to √Roots or categories. Another implication is that the formal criteria which I develop for a small set of expressive suffixes in Russian can be extended to set up a cross-linguistic typology of expressives.............................................. Olga Steriopolo, Ph.D. Department of Linguistics University of British Columbia Totem Field Studios 2613 West Mall Vancouver, BC, V6T 1Z4 Canada You could win a 2008 Mitsubishi Eclipse from Sympatico / MSN Autos. Hunt for the Total Eclipse NOW! Send a smile, make someone laugh, have some fun! Start now! _________________________________________________________________ This Valentine's Day, get creative and show your sweetheart how much you care with flair! Find fun date ideas here! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/224 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU Sat Mar 29 12:01:52 2008 From: lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU (Laura Janda) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:01:52 +0100 Subject: Announcing MA-level courses in Russian/Cognitive Linguistics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Announcing a special opportunity for MA-level students of Russian and/or linguistics: Master Classes in RUSSIAN LINGUISTICS at the University of Tromsø Fall 2008: The History and Dialectology of Russian (RUS 3010; deadline May 1, 2008) Spring 2009: Concepts & Categories: Contemporary Russian Cognitive Linguistics (RUS 3030; deadline October 1, 2008) NOTE: The University of Tromsø does not charge tuition, so the only costs involved are travel and living expenses. The Erasmus program may provide funding for students from EU countries, and other funding opportunities may be available for students from other countries. The only requirements are that students have good knowledge of both English and Russian and be prepared to study for one semester at the MA level. Some advantages of studying in Tromsø: --One of the largest, best funded linguistics programs in the world --Mentorship by Laura A. Janda and Tore Nesset --Scenic setting, with a legendary combination of city comforts and access to unspoiled nature --Rich cultural life, including everything from classical to modern music, theater and films, internationally acclaimed festivals --International milieu that welcomes people from all backgrounds The key component of this program is an MA-level course in Russian linguistics taught by Tore Nesset and Laura Janda. In the Fall semester, the course (RUS 3010) focuses on the historical development of the Russian language from Common Slavic to the present. The course will draw on materials from Old Church Slavonic, Saints¹ lives, Birch Bark Letters, and other texts, culminating with Lomonosov. There will be some emphasis on medieval culture, liturgical and iconographic use of Russian, and there may be an optional field trip to Solovki or Valaamo. Russian dialectology is also a component of the course, and there is a connection to ongoing fieldwork on dialects spoken on the Kola Peninsula. In the Spring semester, the course (RUS 3030) focuses on the crucial affinities of Russian functional linguistics and Cognitive Linguistics through a series of articles representing the best of both traditions. Students hone their analytical abilities through a series of problem sets targeting grammatical phenomena of Russian. Other highlights include guest lectures and a symposium showcasing students¹ research. All students in both semesters can take advantage of individualized advising on a topic of their choice, and participate in empirical research projects, such as ³Exploring Emptiness², led by Tore Nesset and Laura Janda. In addition to the course in Russian Linguistics, students can choose from among various tracks emphasizing special strengths of the University of Tromsø: Russian studies: Further advanced study of Russian language and culture, with possible special emphasis on popular culture Theoretical linguistics: State-of-the-art courses in phonology and syntax through the Center for Advanced Study in Theoretical Linguistics Scandinavian studies: Promotes expertise in the history and current phenomena of Nordic languages English studies: Polishing of English proficiency and theoretical background Language acquisition: L1 and L2 acquisition studies drawing upon both primary experimental research and scholarly articles Indigenous studies: The languages and cultures of minority groups, with special emphasis on the Sami of northern Europe. Contact persons in Tromsø: € Prof. Laura Janda (laura.janda at hum.uit.no ) € Prof. Tore Nesset (tore.nesset at hum.uit.no ) Laura Janda and Tore Nesset are both accomplished scholars in the fields of Cognitive and Slavic Linguistics, and Laura Janda is President of the International Cognitive Linguistics Association (http://www.cognitivelinguistics.org/). Their joint research project, ³Exploring Emptiness², is described at: http://uit.no/humfak/8775/ . Laura Janda has focused most of her research on the semantics of case and aspect in Slavic. Her website can be found at: http://hum.uit.no/lajanda/ Tore Nesset¹s strongest interests are in Russian phonology and morphology. His website can be found at: http://uit.no/humfak/3345/78 For more information about this program, visit this site: http://uit.no/humfak/7542/ or contact either Laura Janda or Tore Nesset directly. Detailed information for international students is below. Note that there are some differences in deadlines according to whether students are ³free movers² (self-financing) or financed through interuniversity agreements. Please contact the international students department using the addresses listed below to confirm the exact deadline that applies to you. Please post and circulate this message. Dear Student, Thank you for your interest in our University. We are always happy to host international students in Tromso. We have a special webpage for our prospective students where you can find all the information referring to our application procedure, language courses and English study programmes. Have a look at http://uit.no/english. You can download your Application form and Learning Agreement under the link "Prospective Students" on the left hand side. Both documents should be signed by your coordinator at home and sent directly to our office together with your Transcript of records. Please send the documents to: University of Tromso, Department of Research and Academic Affairs, 9037 Tromso, Norway. Deadline is 15th of October for the spring semester and 15th of May for the autumn semester. The complete course catalogue (in Norwegian and English) is available online on http://uit.no/studier/emner/. While choosing your courses, please pay attention to LANGUAGE OF INSTRUCTION mentioned in the description of the course. Despite the fact that the entire course catalogue is translated into English, it does not mean that all the courses are in English! Some courses are in Norwegian only. Each course unit has a course code (e.g. GEO - 3104). The letters of the code is an abbreviation for the (Norwegian) name of the academic subject (GEO = Geologi (Geology)). Courses fall into five general levels: 0000 - 1000 - 2000 - 3000 - 8000. The numbers of the code refer to the academic level of the course. 0000 courses are at an introductory level, 1000 courses at a basic level (Bachelor's degree), 2000 courses at an intermediate level (Bachelor's degree), 3000 courses at an advanced level (Master's degree) and 8000 courses at PhD level. You can find contact details to the contact person at your faculty on our webpage (link: contact us at http://uit.no/english/7786/ ). The Faculty coordinator can help you with your study programme in Tromso and your Learning Agreement. Useful information concerning accommodation (ONLINE booking http://uit.no/english/7782/#accommodation ), facilities, cost of living, etc are mentioned in General Info or in our FROM A - Z index - it is worth having a look at it! Please note that in order to get a room, you must apply online within the deadline (more information later). How to book a room - guidelines · Fill in Become a user first, and then register your personal details. Instead of Social Security Number, you should write your date of birth - 6 digits: DDMMYY ). "Your educational establishment" is listed in Norwegian only. You should choose one of the faculties, using one of the following Norwegian shortcuts: MatNat (= Faculty of Sciences), SVFak (= Faculty of Social Sciences), HUMFak (= Faculty of Humanities), JURFak (= Faculty of Law), MEDFak (= Faculty of Medicine), NFH (= Norwegian College of Fishery Science). Also "Start of the course" is in Norwegian only. Høst means Autumn and vår means Spring. We hope that the Accommodation Office will correct this information soon. · The next step is to go to http://www.boligtorget.no/sito/english/frameset.asp?genses=20060502085473399 7 . You should preferably choose "STUDIO" that gives you access to all accommodation available and then ADD chosen address as the 1st priority to the list. The academic year in Tromsø starts early. Autumn semester: 13th August 2008 ­ 19th December 2008 Spring semester: 7th January 2009 - 19th June 2009 The Introductory programme for new international students will be arranged at the beginning of each semester. If you feel like checking the weather in Tromso, you can have a look at http://weather.cs.uit.no/ Information about the city itself is available on http://www.destinasjontromso.no/ We look forward to hearing from you, Best wishes from Tromso, Kristine (kristine.bakkeby.moe at adm.uit.no) and Sigfrid (sigfrid.kjeldaas at adm.uit.no) ------ End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU Sat Mar 29 12:02:21 2008 From: lajanda at EMAIL.UNC.EDU (Laura Janda) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 13:02:21 +0100 Subject: Announcing PhD Position in Russian/Cognitive Linguistics In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Announcing a fully-funded PhD student position with full salary and faculty status at the University of Tromsø, Norway. Application deadline: April 14, 2008 Start date: January 1, 2009 (negotiable) The advantages are: --One of the largest, best funded linguistics programs in the world --Mentorship by Laura A. Janda and Tore Nesset --Scenic setting, with a legendary combination of city comforts and access to unspoiled nature --Rich cultural life, including everything from classical to modern music, theater and films, internationally acclaimed festivals --International milieu that welcomes people from all backgrounds --Well-paid, multi-year appointment We invite candidates with an MA in Slavic Linguistics or General Linguistics to apply for the position of PhD student in connection with the ³Slavic Cognitive Linguistics in Tromsø² (http://uit.no/humfak/7542/) research group. The English translations of the official job announcements, with information on how to apply, are below. Candidates with the following qualifications are especially encouraged to apply: --proficiency in Russian, writing ability in English --background in cognitive linguistics --familiarity with use of electronic corpora (e.g. www.ruscorpora.ru ), construction of linguistic databases, interactive learning materials, statistical analysis The PhD position is a 4-year position. The current annual salary for similar positions at the University of Tromsø is approximately 316,000 NOK (= 51,535 US Dollars). It is important to pay close attention to the application instructions below and to send in all the writing samples (published and unpublished works) by the deadline. Send in 3 collated sets of writing samples (including, if possible, the entire text of the MA thesis or existing chapters if the thesis is not yet complete). Be sure to use the Reference Number (Ref.) in all correspondence and to complete the on-line application procedure. Below is the official announcement. Interested parties should not hesitate to contact Tore Nesset (tore.nesset at hum.uit.no) or Laura Janda (laura.janda at hum.uit.no) for more information. ----------------------- Position reference number: 200800324 Job announcement for a Ph.D. position (scholarship) in Russian linguistics at the Faculty of Humanities at the University of Tromsø Application deadline: April 14, 2008 The following reference number must be quoted in your application: Ref. 08-324 The University of Tromsø has a research fellow position in Russian linguistics vacant for applicants who would like to complete a Ph.D. degree. The period of appointment is four years. For further information, please contact: Professor Laura A. Janda, telephone +47 77 645 680, email: laura.janda at hum.uit.no. The position is attached to the ³Slavic Cognitive Linguistics in Tromsø² (http://uit.no/humfak/7542/) research group, which has at present four members: Professors Laura A. Janda and Tore Nesset, Post-Doctoral Researcher Olga Lyashevskaya and Ph.D. Student Svetlana Sokolova. The research group is pursuing two major projects: ³Exploring Emptiness² (http://uit.no/humfak/8775/) and ³Modeling Clusters of Russian Verbs² (http://uit.no/22/9313). The person who is appointed to this position will be a member of the research group involved in the latter project. In their applications, candidates should describe their qualifications and explain how they can contribute to the completion of the project. The project and the research groups are described at the websites listed above. The person appointed to this position will write a Ph.D. dissertation about aspect clusters in Russian. S/he must have an MA degree in Russian language or equivalent relevant education. Candidates must document that they have good proficiency in Russian. In addition it is an advantage, but not a requirement that candidates have one or more of the following qualifications: 1. Background in Cognitive Linguistics (e.g. a university-level course in this linguistic theory) 2. Experience in teaching Russian 3. Experience in developing and using interactive learning materials 4. Knowledge of Corpus Linguistics and experience with the use of electronic corpora (e.g. Nacional¹nyj korpus russkogo jazyka) 5. Knowledge of statistical analysis 6. Good writing ability in English The Ph.D. student can be assigned to teach at all levels in the undergraduate and master¹s degree programs in the academic discipline of her/his specialty. The successful applicant must fulfill the requirements for admission to the faculty¹s Ph.D. programme, cf. Section 5 (Chapter II) of Regulations for the degree of Philosophiae Doctor (ph.d.) at The University of Tromsø, http://uit.no/forsknavd/ph.d.-forskrift/1 and the faculty¹s supplementary regulations, http://uit.no/getfile.php?PageId=977&FileId=738 . The normal period of appointment is four years. The Ph.D. study is standardized to three years. The fourth year consists of teaching or other duties for the university, organized according to a distribution formula of 25 % per year, cf. the directive for duties for research fellows (in Norwegian only): http://uit.no/getfile.php?PageId=6139&FileId=37 . A shorter period of appointment may be given if the research fellow has already completed part of his/her advanced education, or when previous appointments to educational positions (research fellow, research assistant or equivalent) are counted as part of the duration of the research fellowship, such that the combined duration of the researcher¹s education is three years. Remuneration is in accordance with the State wage scale code 1017 (alternatively code 1378) (or both depending on qualifications). A compulsory contribution of 2 % is made to the Norwegian State Pension Fund. After appointment, the Ph.D. student will, in collaboration with the project leaders, produce a plan for how the term of the scholarship will be used taking into consideration the research project and other professional training. The plan will be ready within one month after the appointee commences employment. The successful candidate must apply separately for admission to the Ph.D. study as soon as possible after appointment and no later than one month after commencement. Within three months after commencement, admission to the doctoral degree programme must be obtained and a final plan for advanced education must be approved and regulated by contract. The plan shall also state who is responsible for providing academic supervision. It is a requirement that the supervisor is an employee of the Humanities faculty at the University of Tromsø. Admission to the doctoral degree program is a prerequisite for appointment to the Ph.D. position. If an admission contract has not been signed prior to the deadline, as stated in the work contract, the employer may consider cancelling the work contract, cf. § 1-3 (8) in Regulation for conditions of appointment to post doctoral positions, research fellowships, research assistants and specialist candidates (in Norwegian only): http://www.lovdata.no/for/sf/kd/kd-20060131-0102.html. The position is based in the Humanities Faculty at the University of Tromsø. The faculty has approximately 120 permanent positions, of which 20 provide technical and administrative support. The Faculty conducts research, teaching and scholarly work in Comparative Literature, General Linguistics, Information and Library Science, English, Finnish, French, Greek and Latin, Art, Scandinavian Languages (and creative writing), Russian, Sámi, Spanish and German. Scholarly positions are grouped in two departments based on research discipline, the Department of Culture and Literature, and the Department of Languages and Linguistics. In addition, the Center for Advanced Study in Theoretical Linguistics - A Norwegian Center of Excellence (CASTL) is located in the Faculty. The position announced herein is based in the Department of Languages and Linguistics. The current strategic areas of research supported in the Faculty relate to investigation of the cultures of the Circumpolar region (broadly understood) and theoretical linguistics. A committee of experts will evaluate the candidates. The main emphasis of the evaluation will be placed on the candidate¹s research potential as evidenced by 7. MA thesis or the equivalent 8. Other scholarly works, if available 9. The other relevant qualifications described above. Work experience and other scholarly activity that is relevant to completing a Ph.D. degree, as well as any pedagogical qualifications, will be taken into account. Experience in administrative or organizational posts will be seen as an advantage. The candidate should deliver the information and materials which s/he wants the committee to take into consideration before the application deadline. A list of all the candidate¹s scholarly works, stating where those works have been published, must be attached to the application. The application must be sent electronically using the application form found at http://ec.europa.eu/eracareers/index_en.cfm?l1=1&l2=1&l3=1&idjob=23132401&CF ID=11745117&CFTOKEN=a1412db73a00ebaa-5EDBBF68-D742-28FB-AD048EE1155932DB In addition, a letter of application, along with a CV, notarized copies of diplomas and certificates and 5 copies of the list of scholarly works should be sent in before the application deadline directly to: Det humanistiske fakultet Universitetet i Tromsø NO-9037 TROMSØ THE SCHOLARLY WORKS ­ published or unpublished ­ which the candidate wants the committee to take into account in their evaluation, should be delivered in three copies, and be collated in 3 complete sets. The works should be sent in before the application deadline directly to: Det humanistiske fakultet Universitetet i Tromsø NO-9037 TROMSØ Applicants shall also refer to Supplementary regulations for appointment to elementary positions (research fellows) at the University of Tromsø (in Norwegian only) and Regulations for conditions of employment to post doctoral research fellow positions, research fellow positions, research assistant positions and specialist candidate positions (in Norwegian only), http://uit.no/persok/arbeidsforhold/6. Questions concerning the organization of the work environment, such as the physical state of the place of employment, health service, possibility for flexible working hours, part time, etc. as well as questions concerning the Ph.D. study may be directed to the telephone number listed above. According to personnel policy objectives that the staff shall reflect the composition of the population in general, both with respect to gender and cultural diversity, women and persons with a minority ethnic background in particular are encouraged to apply. The University of Tromsø is an IW (Inclusive Workplace) enterprise, and will try to adapt the working conditions for employees with impaired capacity. In case of discrepancies between the Norwegian and the English version of this description, the Norwegian version takes precedence. ------ End of Forwarded Message ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Sat Mar 29 16:07:37 2008 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 16:07:37 +0000 Subject: What is the original of this translation? Message-ID: Dear all, This outstanding poem, by a former teacher of mine, is likely to be a translation from either Russian or French. Does anyone recognize it? Vsego dobrogo, Robert ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET Sat Mar 29 16:43:06 2008 From: hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET (Hugh Olmsted) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 12:43:06 -0400 Subject: Russian Costumes In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Jack, The following, though brief, may be of some help: Istoriia drevnerusskogo kostiuma : uchebno-metodicheskoe posobie dlia studentov fakul'teta, obuchaiushchikhsia po spetsializatsii "arkheologiia" / avt.- sost. Iu.V. Stepanova. Tver' : Tverskoi gos. un-t. Kafedra otechestvennoi istorii, 2006. 45 p. : ill. paper. Contents: Obzor istoriografii -- Pis'mennye istochniki po istorii drevnerusskogo kostiuma -- Izobrazitel'nye istochniki po istorii drevnerusskogo kostiuma -- Arkheologicheskie istochniki po istorii drevnerusskogo kostiuma. Sostav drevnerusskogo zhenskogo i muzhskogo kostiuma po materialam pogrebal'nykh pamiatnikov Verkhnevolzh'ia -- Literatura -- Internet-resursy -- Temy dokladov -- Glossarii -- Prilozheniia: I. Teksty berestianykh gramot, soderzhashchie nazvaniia drevnerusskikh odezhd; II. Izobrazheniia drevnerusskikh odezhd na predmetakh dekorativno- prikladnogo iskusstva, fasadnoi skul'pture, knizhnoi miniatiure, v ikonopisi i litsevom shit'e; III. Elementy drevnerusskogo kostiuma i rekonstruktsii zhenskogo i muzhskogo kostiuma po materialam pogrebal'nykh pamiatnikov Verkhnevolzh'ia. This nauchno-populiarnoe edition may contain some useful information as well: Vardugin, V. I. Russkaia odezhda. Saratov : "Detskaia kniga", 2001. 349 p. : ill. "Istoriia narodnogo kostiuma ot skifskikh do sovetskikh vremën s ocherkami obriadov, obychaev, nravov i sueveriĭ illiustrirovannaia graviurami, risunkami i fotografiiami masterov XVIII-nachala XX veka, s prilozheniem rasskaza, kak samim sshitʹ nariadnoe platʹe po starinnomu kroiu." "Nauchno-populiarnoe illiustrirovannoe izdanie"--Colophon. The first title listed above is available for sale from: Russian Studies Publications, at e-mail russbooks at comcast.net Best wishes, Hugh Olmsted On Mar 29, 2008, at 12:31 AM, Jack Franke wrote: > Seelangers: > > Can anyone recommend a good reference book for Russian costumes or > clothing from the 15-17 centuries? > > Thanks in advance, > > Jack Franke,Professor of Russian > Assistant Dean, European and Latin American School > Defense Language Institute ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM Sun Mar 30 00:14:32 2008 From: iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:14:32 -0500 Subject: a possibly minority position Message-ID: It is from this mockery that people have learned about differences between sounds of languages. First we mimicked and mocked the speakers of that second language, because it sounded strangely interesting to our own ears... some of us chose to go on and learn that language of strange, interesting sounds, others chose not to for this reason or that. As far as being politically correct... PC has done a lot of bad for the U.S., IMHO, and is only making communication between and among people worse. We constantly utilize and create euphemisms and veiled 'polite phases' every day just to avoid causing someone else some kind of perceived or nonexistent harm. But hey, I suppose PC makes the English language appear more 'beautiful' than Russian since we've learned to express certain concepts with several more words than necessary; i.e. the lavatory, restroom, W/C (water closet), the john, the porcelain goddess (I suppose I should say porcelain god, so that the men don't feel left out and the women less offended...) and last but not least, the toilet... Yes, language is an interesting thing, and when it's spoken, it sounds even more interesting, especially to a foreigner. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Sun Mar 30 00:45:25 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 20:45:25 -0400 Subject: PC vs. euphemism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You are confusing PC and euphemisms. The latter always existed and there are dictionaries of euphemisms. PC simply requires one not to use offensive language towards minorities. You can still think in racial slur in the privacy of your own WC but you are not expected to produce it publicly. That's all. There are PC elements that some older generation people find objectionable, such as "his or her" instead of "his" referring to some unknown person, and some similar substitutions where the reference to ANY person was traditionally in masculine gender. This is not English specific. There is a growing number of common gender words in Russian and French uses feminine articles with some traditionally masculine words, such as ministre. Of course it is not without some problems, but the language will sort itself out in a generation or two. On Mar 29, 2008, at 8:14 PM, Dustin Hosseini wrote: > > But hey, I suppose PC makes the English language appear more > 'beautiful' > than Russian since we've learned to express certain concepts with > several > more words than necessary; i.e. the lavatory, restroom, W/C (water > closet), > the john, the porcelain goddess (I suppose I should say porcelain > god, so > that the men don't feel left out and the women less offended...) > and last > but not least, the toilet... > > Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rdwess1 at EARTHLINK.NET Sun Mar 30 01:09:36 2008 From: rdwess1 at EARTHLINK.NET (Robert Wessling) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 18:09:36 -0700 Subject: Boodishnick In-Reply-To: <474FD9B4.8080806@sheffield.ac.uk> Message-ID: Neil, Re-reading SEELANGS on an afternoon devoted to professional catch-up. I hope you and Andy are well. Could you possibly recommend a socio-linguist who is a good speaker and can speak knowledgeably (and engagingly) about linguistic differentiation (and usage) in contemporary Ukraine? We need such a scholar to come speak to us (a mixed academic and community audience) next autumn. Has Asya P. been communicating with you at all? Best, Rob On 11/30/07 1:36 AM, "Neil Bermel" wrote: > Dear all, > > Here's one of those friend-of-a-friend-asked-me queries. I've checked a > number of obvious sources to which I have access, including Russian > print and online dictionaries and Yiddish and Ukrainian online > dictionaries and googling the word in various spellings (only one > hit...), but no luck. I'm not even sure if the word referred to is best > treated as Russian (seems unlikely), Ukrainian, Yiddish.... > > "A word cropped up in a piece of fiction I¹ve got to annotate for a book > proposal. The word is Œboodishnick¹, which is how it¹s spelt in the > fiction, but I¹m not sure whether it¹s correctly spelled. The context is > a pogrom in Odessa during the 1880s, and the word is used by one of the > mob, who shouts ŒWho murdered the boodishnick?¹ Could you help with a > possible translation?" > > Any advice for this person will be greatly appreciated. > > Neil > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Sun Mar 30 01:39:19 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 21:39:19 -0400 Subject: PC vs. euphemism In-Reply-To: <1EEE355E-904C-47A8-B558-7FCC3DBC9A6F@american.edu> Message-ID: Alina Israeli wrote: > You are confusing PC and euphemisms. The latter always existed and > there are dictionaries of euphemisms. PC simply requires one not to > use offensive language towards minorities. You can still think in > racial slur in the privacy of your own WC but you are not expected to > produce it publicly. That's all. ... Actually, things are more complicated than that. When the practice of avoiding racial slurs and accounting for "minority" groups such as women that had traditionally been left out began, many people readily adopted it, but there was also a backlash among a (forgive the expression) minority who felt this was an imposition, a restriction on their freedom of speech. And some extremists at that end of the spectrum have fabricated all sorts of horror stories about what PC "really means" -- that members of a men's basketball team supposedly must be termed "he or she," that sort of nonsense. So in certain circles, "PC" has come to be regarded with derision and resentment. As you said in the part of your message that I snipped, the language (or rather, the culture) will sort itself out in a generation or two. Meanwhile, other issues will arise, and we'll evolve and adapt to deal with those as well. Language is more a reflection of attitudes than the other way around. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ggerhart at COMCAST.NET Sun Mar 30 02:43:47 2008 From: ggerhart at COMCAST.NET (Genevra Gerhart) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 19:43:47 -0700 Subject: PC vs. euphemism In-Reply-To: <1EEE355E-904C-47A8-B558-7FCC3DBC9A6F@american.edu> Message-ID: Ladies and gentlemen: (If you will pardon the expression), Alina said: There are PC elements that some older generation people find objectionable, such as "his or her" instead of "his" referring to some unknown person, and some similar substitutions where the reference to ANY person was traditionally in masculine gender. Quite right: I am old, and I do find "his or her" offensive. Just "his" used to be enough to indicate both sexes, and as we know, brevity is better. But the reason should be made clear: these long "euphemisms" are and have been used, _especially in the academic community_ especially among deans and above, to demonstrate their PC-ness to either hide or to sugar-coat an intention not to hire or promote a female of the species. (I have actually heard of someone's using this device to avoid doing the unthinkable.) My argument is that it is not the language that rules (as some would make us think), but life itself. What we must change is the life part, and language will change meaning with us. Genevra Gerhart ggerhart at comcast.net www.genevragerhart.com www.russiancommonknowledge.com No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: 3/29/2008 5:02 PM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emilka at MAC.COM Sun Mar 30 03:03:59 2008 From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 20:03:59 -0700 Subject: PC vs. euphemism In-Reply-To: <000001c8920f$e11fc6e0$4954aa43@DB4SFP51> Message-ID: If I may also note, to the probable horror of strict grammarians, there has been a growing tendency to use the third person plural pronoun when referring to a single individual of undetermined gender. If a person wished to be succinct (avoid the awkward "his or her") and yet indicate that the gender could go either way, "they" might consider the 3rd person plural. Another example of language and attitudes sorting themselves out and evolving? Perhaps, in time, "they" will be acceptable and even recommended in college level essays as a genderless 3rd person singular pronoun...? Maybe. Regards, Emily Saunders On Mar 29, 2008, at 7:43 PM, Genevra Gerhart wrote: > Ladies and gentlemen: (If you will pardon the expression), > > Alina said: There are PC elements that some older generation people > find > objectionable, such as "his or her" instead of "his" referring to some > unknown person, and some similar substitutions where the reference > to ANY > person was traditionally in masculine gender. > > Quite right: I am old, and I do find "his or her" offensive. Just > "his" > used to be enough to indicate both sexes, and as we know, brevity is > better. > But the reason should be made clear: these long "euphemisms" are and > have > been used, _especially in the academic community_ especially among > deans and > above, to demonstrate their PC-ness to either hide or to sugar-coat an > intention not to hire or promote a female of the species. (I have > actually > heard of someone's using this device to avoid doing the unthinkable.) > > My argument is that it is not the language that rules (as some would > make us > think), but life itself. What we must change is the life part, and > language > will change meaning with us. > > Genevra Gerhart > > ggerhart at comcast.net > > www.genevragerhart.com > www.russiancommonknowledge.com > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: > 3/29/2008 > 5:02 PM > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From emilydjohnson at OU.EDU Sun Mar 30 04:15:53 2008 From: emilydjohnson at OU.EDU (Emily Johnson) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 22:15:53 -0600 Subject: PC vs. euphemism In-Reply-To: <7EB45357-CA5B-4A5D-9753-2ECE79FA4864@mac.com> Message-ID: Actually the style manuals used in many first-year college compositions courses now recommend exactly such a usage-- "When a person experiences loss, they/their..." The students in our classes are being taught that this is the preferred form and the best way of achieving gender neutrality. Often the style manuals cite similar examples dating back to the eighteenth century--often by very well-known writers. It grates my ear as well, but many composition programs are encouraging it. On Saturday, March 29, 2008, at 09:03 PM, Emily Saunders wrote: > If I may also note, to the probable horror of strict grammarians, > there has been a growing tendency to use the third person plural > pronoun when referring to a single individual of undetermined gender. > If a person wished to be succinct (avoid the awkward "his or her") and > yet indicate that the gender could go either way, "they" might > consider the 3rd person plural. Another example of language and > attitudes sorting themselves out and evolving? Perhaps, in time, > "they" will be acceptable and even recommended in college level essays > as a genderless 3rd person singular pronoun...? > > Maybe. > > Regards, > > Emily Saunders > > On Mar 29, 2008, at 7:43 PM, Genevra Gerhart wrote: > >> Ladies and gentlemen: (If you will pardon the expression), >> >> Alina said: There are PC elements that some older generation people >> find >> objectionable, such as "his or her" instead of "his" referring to some >> unknown person, and some similar substitutions where the reference >> to ANY >> person was traditionally in masculine gender. >> >> Quite right: I am old, and I do find "his or her" offensive. Just >> "his" >> used to be enough to indicate both sexes, and as we know, brevity is >> better. >> But the reason should be made clear: these long "euphemisms" are and >> have >> been used, _especially in the academic community_ especially among >> deans and >> above, to demonstrate their PC-ness to either hide or to sugar-coat an >> intention not to hire or promote a female of the species. (I have >> actually >> heard of someone's using this device to avoid doing the unthinkable.) >> >> My argument is that it is not the language that rules (as some would >> make us >> think), but life itself. What we must change is the life part, and >> language >> will change meaning with us. >> >> Genevra Gerhart >> >> ggerhart at comcast.net >> >> www.genevragerhart.com >> www.russiancommonknowledge.com >> >> >> No virus found in this outgoing message. >> Checked by AVG. >> Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: >> 3/29/2008 >> 5:02 PM >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription >> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: >> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> --- >> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > Dr. Emily Johnson Associate Professor Dept. of Modern Languages, Literatures & Linguistics University of Oklahoma 780 Van Vleet Oval, Room 206 Norman, OK 73019 phone: (405) 325-1486 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU Sun Mar 30 03:40:20 2008 From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein) Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2008 23:40:20 -0400 Subject: PC vs. euphemism In-Reply-To: <7EB45357-CA5B-4A5D-9753-2ECE79FA4864@mac.com> Message-ID: Emily Saunders wrote: > If I may also note, to the probable horror of strict grammarians, > there has been a growing tendency to use the third person plural > pronoun when referring to a single individual of undetermined gender. > If a person wished to be succinct (avoid the awkward "his or her") and > yet indicate that the gender could go either way, "they" might > consider the 3rd person plural. Another example of language and > attitudes sorting themselves out and evolving? Perhaps, in time, > "they" will be acceptable and even recommended in college level essays > as a genderless 3rd person singular pronoun...? As much as I strive not to use "they," "their" etc. with a singular referent in my own writing or speaking, having been trained to follow the dictates of certain eighteenth-century language mavens, as a linguist I have to acknowledge 1) the fact that languages (including English) change and 2) that there is a long history of such usage in English. See, for example, http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austheir.html, for a list of examples going as far back as the fifteenth century (/c/ *1489* CAXTON Sonnes of Aymon i. 39 Eche of theym sholde... make theymselfe redy) and including Shakespeare (There's not a man I meet but doth salute me, / As if I were their well-acquainted friend), Chesterfield (*1759* Lett. IV. ccclv. 170 If a person is born of a gloomy temper ... they cannot help it) and Lawrence Durrell (You do not have to understand someone in order to love them). The site also includes an account of the history of "singular their." Bob Rothstein ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tfa2001 at COLUMBIA.EDU Sun Mar 30 06:35:03 2008 From: tfa2001 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Thomas Anessi) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 02:35:03 -0400 Subject: Epicene pronoun In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alas, it is we (academics) who are not only holding up the change, but who caused the problem centuries ago! "They" was widely accepted as a gender neutral pronoun as early as the 12th century. I read an excellent master's thesis on the subject years back, but this web page provides plenty of examples: http://www.crossmyt.com/hc/linghebr/austhlis.html Jane Austen used "they" most often to refer to "anybody" and "somebody". Only in the 18th century (as I recall from memory) did grammar books decide that the question of disagreement between number (they) and gender (he) should be decided in favor of the public (and therefore discursive) "he" speaking for the domestic "she". As feminists pushed to reverse this choice in the 20th c., coined terms, wordy phrasings, and avoidance strategies were privileged over the time-tested "they" by the academy. In spite of grammarians' scoldings, the public has gravitated towards "they" in everyday speech, while generally following the conventions mentioned above or sticking with "he" in written discourse. Perhaps the real political correctness is in the academy's stubbornness about accepting the extent to which "they" has become solidly entrenched in speech as an epicene pronoun. Since "you" already performs an analogous role as plural and singular pronoun, why would using "they" bring down the sky. I do support a certain form of conservatism in terms how we uphold linguist standards (like SWE), so I do not mean to imply that written standards should chase after every shift in spoken language. But in this case, the change is many decades old and clearly irreversible. They language users themselves have quite literally "spoken" on the matter. I use the example of the epicene pronoun issue in class to explain what language change looks like as it occurs. When students then ask me what to use in their texts, I say, "Use any one of the possible choices at your own risk. The safest way to go is to keep using plurals until the academics can finally figure out what to do." Sorry to fill up so much space with a posting about English, but I have been fascinated by the epicene pronoun issue for years, as many of my friends and associates know. Thomas Anessi Columbia University Ph.D. candidate > Ladies and gentlemen: (If you will pardon the expression), > > Alina said: There are PC elements that some older generation people find > objectionable, such as "his or her" instead of "his" referring to some > unknown person, and some similar substitutions where the reference to ANY > person was traditionally in masculine gender. > > Quite right: I am old, and I do find "his or her" offensive. Just "his" > used to be enough to indicate both sexes, and as we know, brevity is better. > But the reason should be made clear: these long "euphemisms" are and have > been used, _especially in the academic community_ especially among deans and > above, to demonstrate their PC-ness to either hide or to sugar-coat an > intention not to hire or promote a female of the species. (I have actually > heard of someone's using this device to avoid doing the unthinkable.) > > My argument is that it is not the language that rules (as some would make us > think), but life itself. What we must change is the life part, and language > will change meaning with us. > > Genevra Gerhart > > ggerhart at comcast.net > > www.genevragerhart.com > www.russiancommonknowledge.com > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From maberdy at GMAIL.COM Sun Mar 30 09:50:49 2008 From: maberdy at GMAIL.COM (Michele A. Berdy) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:50:49 +0400 Subject: a possibly minority position Message-ID: Dustin Hosseini wrote: "But hey, I suppose PC makes the English language appear more 'beautiful' than Russian since we've learned to express certain concepts with several more words than necessary; i.e. the lavatory, restroom, W/C (water closet), the john, the porcelain goddess (I suppose I should say porcelain god, so that the men don't feel left out and the women less offended...) and last but not least, the toilet..." Surely you don't think that Russian doesn't have euphemisms for the toilet and going to the toilet? I have pages and pages pages of them, including what you cite in English: клозет/ватерклозет (albeit, rather rare), удобство, читальная, библиотека, место для раздумий, одно место; белый/фарфоровый друг/пони. There are also plenty of "polite" ways to excuse oneself to go to this "particular place," although I think (but would need more research to confirm) that among friends (young-ish) Russians are slightly more likely to say "пойду пописаю" than Americans are likely to say "I'm going to take a pee." And there are dozens of ways in Russian -- both polite and crude -- to describe the processes that go on there (other than reading, which seems to be a cross-cultural habit). I solicited expressions for a couple of columns I did on this and got so many words and expressions, you could write a dissertation on it. Actually, surely someone has. (?) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM Sun Mar 30 11:07:11 2008 From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:07:11 +0100 Subject: Original of this translation (TRYING AGAIN!) Message-ID: Dear all, This outstanding poem, by a former teacher of mine, is likely to be a translation from either Russian or French. Does anyone recognize it? Vsego dobrogo, Robert Evening. I¹ll go to meet them down the old Familiar road. Light fades. The colour¹s gone >From all around me ­ earth, grass, tree and stone ­ But overhead the sky has turned to gold. Its soft warm glow burns brightest where the dark Horizon swells to meet it in a gentle arc. I¹ll go no further. Under these oak trees I¹ll gladly sit and wait for them till morning, Watching the standing corn sway in the breeze, And one day¹s death become another¹s dawning. So past and future in my own life meet; And now the sweetness of the hour, so calm And free, acts on me like a potent charm, Stilling regret for what¹s behind, and doubt Of what¹s in store. My dog lies at my feet, Watching a beetle crawl across the ground. But what was that?... He cocks his head, Alert to catch some distant sound Beyond my kenŠ Yes, he was right: Now, from the west, where still the sky burns bright, I too can hear the old mare¹s eager tread. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU Sun Mar 30 12:37:21 2008 From: meersono at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Olga Meerson) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 07:37:21 -0500 Subject: PC vs. euphemism Message-ID: I find the expression 'his or her' unusable in Russian. Chitatel' ozhidal, chto... obviously includes female readers, while chitatel'nitsa ozhidala chto... equally obviously EXcludes male readers. This is the nature of Russian as a grammatically gendered language, period, end of discussion. Chitatel' ili chitatel'nica ozhidali, chto..., in fact, creates a differentiation between the two, that is somehow gender-based--as if it would be understood by default that male and female readers always expected DIFFERENT things. In gendered languages, an attempt to use this formally inclusive language may, in fact, add a sexist tint, or at least a note of a sentimentalist, deliberately Lawrence-Sternian or Karamzinian, gesture to the comment or implicit address. Am I wrong about the French, Alina? (I trust your authority in these matters). In Russian, at least, that is how I feel. Or perhaps even being a character in Molière's "Les Précieuses ridicules". But that is my feeling about man y types of writing, in English, today. Russian allows a bit less of that. No? ----- Original Message ----- From: Genevra Gerhart Date: Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:43 pm Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] PC vs. euphemism > Ladies and gentlemen: (If you will pardon the expression), > > Alina said: There are PC elements that some older generation > people find > objectionable, such as "his or her" instead of "his" referring to some > unknown person, and some similar substitutions where the reference > to ANY > person was traditionally in masculine gender. > > Quite right: I am old, and I do find "his or her" offensive. Just > "his"used to be enough to indicate both sexes, and as we know, > brevity is better. > But the reason should be made clear: these long "euphemisms" are > and have > been used, _especially in the academic community_ especially among > deans and > above, to demonstrate their PC-ness to either hide or to sugar-coat an > intention not to hire or promote a female of the species. (I have > actuallyheard of someone's using this device to avoid doing the > unthinkable.) > My argument is that it is not the language that rules (as some > would make us > think), but life itself. What we must change is the life part, and > languagewill change meaning with us. > > Genevra Gerhart > > ggerhart at comcast.net > > www.genevragerhart.com > www.russiancommonknowledge.com > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: > 3/29/20085:02 PM > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tolstoy at MSCC.HUJI.AC.IL Sun Mar 30 13:00:38 2008 From: tolstoy at MSCC.HUJI.AC.IL (Helena Tolstoy) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:00:38 +0200 Subject: Boodishnick In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Possibly boodoshnik, a policeman, in some local version? -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Wessling Sent: 30 March 2008 03:10 To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Boodishnick Neil, Re-reading SEELANGS on an afternoon devoted to professional catch-up. I hope you and Andy are well. Could you possibly recommend a socio-linguist who is a good speaker and can speak knowledgeably (and engagingly) about linguistic differentiation (and usage) in contemporary Ukraine? We need such a scholar to come speak to us (a mixed academic and community audience) next autumn. Has Asya P. been communicating with you at all? Best, Rob On 11/30/07 1:36 AM, "Neil Bermel" wrote: > Dear all, > > Here's one of those friend-of-a-friend-asked-me queries. I've checked a > number of obvious sources to which I have access, including Russian > print and online dictionaries and Yiddish and Ukrainian online > dictionaries and googling the word in various spellings (only one > hit...), but no luck. I'm not even sure if the word referred to is best > treated as Russian (seems unlikely), Ukrainian, Yiddish.... > > "A word cropped up in a piece of fiction I¹ve got to annotate for a book > proposal. The word is Œboodishnick¹, which is how it¹s spelt in the > fiction, but I¹m not sure whether it¹s correctly spelled. The context is > a pogrom in Odessa during the 1880s, and the word is used by one of the > mob, who shouts ŒWho murdered the boodishnick?¹ Could you help with a > possible translation?" > > Any advice for this person will be greatly appreciated. > > Neil > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From rolf.fieguth at UNIFR.CH Sun Mar 30 13:09:57 2008 From: rolf.fieguth at UNIFR.CH (FIEGUTH Rolf) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:09:57 +0200 Subject: AW: [SEELANGS] PC vs. euphemism Message-ID: Dear Olga, I agree only with the last sentences of your message. Some twenty or thirty years ago, many speakers of German or French were thinking of their language as you do of Russian. Meanwhile, in Swiss administrative usage, you have always to use both forms "der Professor, die Professorin", "le professeur, la professeure" (!! - horrible to a France French ear and eye), and, at least in German, the reader "der Leser" is frequently replaced by "die Lesenden" or "die Leserschaft" - so maybe, some 20 later, we will have in Russian something like "chitayushchie" or even "chitatel'stvo" (ot chego nas, Bozhe, sokhrani). All the best, Rolf Fieguth -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list im Auftrag von Olga Meerson Gesendet: So 30.03.:37 An: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Betreff: Re: [SEELANGS] PC vs. euphemism I find the expression 'his or her' unusable in Russian. Chitatel' ozhidal, chto... obviously includes female readers, while chitatel'nitsa ozhidala chto... equally obviously EXcludes male readers. This is the nature of Russian as a grammatically gendered language, period, end of discussion. Chitatel' ili chitatel'nica ozhidali, chto..., in fact, creates a differentiation between the two, that is somehow gender-based--as if it would be understood by default that male and female readers always expected DIFFERENT things. In gendered languages, an attempt to use this formally inclusive language may, in fact, add a sexist tint, or at least a note of a sentimentalist, deliberately Lawrence-Sternian or Karamzinian, gesture to the comment or implicit address. Am I wrong about the French, Alina? (I trust your authority in these matters). In Russian, at least, that is how I feel. Or perhaps even being a character in Molière's "Les Précieuses ridicules". But that is my feeling about man y types of writing, in English, today. Russian allows a bit less of that. No? ----- Original Message ----- From: Genevra Gerhart Date: Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:43 pm Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] PC vs. euphemism > Ladies and gentlemen: (If you will pardon the expression), > > Alina said: There are PC elements that some older generation > people find > objectionable, such as "his or her" instead of "his" referring to some > unknown person, and some similar substitutions where the reference > to ANY > person was traditionally in masculine gender. > > Quite right: I am old, and I do find "his or her" offensive. Just > "his"used to be enough to indicate both sexes, and as we know, > brevity is better. > But the reason should be made clear: these long "euphemisms" are > and have > been used, _especially in the academic community_ especially among > deans and > above, to demonstrate their PC-ness to either hide or to sugar-coat an > intention not to hire or promote a female of the species. (I have > actuallyheard of someone's using this device to avoid doing the > unthinkable.) > My argument is that it is not the language that rules (as some > would make us > think), but life itself. What we must change is the life part, and > languagewill change meaning with us. > > Genevra Gerhart > > ggerhart at comcast.net > > www.genevragerhart.com > www.russiancommonknowledge.com > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.519 / Virus Database: 269.22.1/1349 - Release Date: > 3/29/20085:02 PM > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your > subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS > Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From maberdy at GMAIL.COM Sun Mar 30 13:45:46 2008 From: maberdy at GMAIL.COM (Michele A. Berdy) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:45:46 +0400 Subject: PC vs. euphemism Message-ID: Olga Meerson wrote: "I find the expression 'his or her' unusable in Russian. Chitatel' ozhidal, chto... obviously includes female readers, while chitatel'nitsa ozhidala chto... equally obviously EXcludes male readers. This is the nature of Russian as a grammatically gendered language, period, end of discussion. Chitatel' ili chitatel'nica ozhidali, chto..., in fact, creates a differentiation between the two, that is somehow gender-based--as if it would be understood by default that male and female readers always expected DIFFERENT things. In gendered languages, an attempt to use this formally inclusive language may, in fact, add a sexist tint, or at least a note of a sentimentalist, deliberately Lawrence-Sternian or Karamzinian, gesture to the comment or implicit address..." A couple of years ago I wrote an article on bias-free and inclusive English for translators (it can be found at http://www.thinkaloud.ru/feature/berdy-bias.doc). Discussions with E>R translators showed that it is virtually impossible to render some of this in Russian, although since then I have found that some Russian branches of international NGOs do apply the he/she distinction (particularly in calls for job applications). ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Sun Mar 30 15:05:27 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 11:05:27 -0400 Subject: AW: [SEELANGS] PC vs. euphemism In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Mar 30, 2008, at 9:09 AM, FIEGUTH Rolf wrote: > Dear Olga, > > I agree only with the last sentences of your message. Some twenty > or thirty years ago, many speakers of German or French were > thinking of their language as you do of Russian. Meanwhile, in > Swiss administrative usage, you have always to use both forms "der > Professor, die Professorin", "le professeur, la professeure" Indeed, I think it started in Switzerland and then moved onto the rest of the French speaking world. These days with cyber communications things should move faster. Just in the News (French Google News) "553 pour auteure" which means it's been in the news fairly recently, "8 949 pour la-ministre" (it added hyphen, not me). If only 4x20+10 were no longer in use. Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM Sun Mar 30 17:42:51 2008 From: iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:42:51 -0500 Subject: a possibly minority position Message-ID: Well, in this particular example, Russians generally don't have euphemistic equivalents to what English has and what native speakers of English utilize in everyday life. Perhaps those words that were elicited were or are used by Russian speakers out of humor or irony, such as when someone is drunk. But in a public place, people, even younger Russians, would almost always ask "Где туалет? / А где у в&#1072;с туалет?" (Gde tualet? / A gde u vas tualet? if that didn't come through)... but, at least in the US, people rarely say 'Where is the toilet?' but rather 'Where is the restroom?' But a friend of mine raised a question: what about the word "у&#1073;орная"? On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 13:50:49 +0400, Michele A. Berdy wrote: >Dustin Hosseini wrote: "But hey, I suppose PC makes the English language >appear more 'beautiful' than Russian since we've learned to express certain >concepts with several more words than necessary; i.e. the lavatory, >restroom, W/C (water closet), the john, the porcelain goddess (I suppose I >should say porcelain god, so that the men don't feel left out and the women >less offended...) and last but not least, the toilet..." > >Surely you don't think that Russian doesn't have euphemisms for the toilet >and going to the toilet? I have pages and pages pages of them, including >what you cite in English: клозет/ватерклозет (albeit, rather rare), >удобство, читальная, библиотека, место для раздумий, одно место; >белый/фарфоровый друг/пони. There are also plenty of "polite" ways to excuse >oneself to go to this "particular place," although I think (but would need >more research to confirm) that among friends (young-ish) Russians are >slightly more likely to say "пойду пописаю" than Americans are likely to say >"I'm going to take a pee." And there are dozens of ways in Russian -- both >polite and crude -- to describe the processes that go on there (other than >reading, which seems to be a cross-cultural habit). I solicited expressions >for a couple of columns I did on this and got so many words and expressions, >you could write a dissertation on it. Actually, surely someone has. (?) > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU Sun Mar 30 20:23:35 2008 From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 16:23:35 -0400 Subject: a possibly minority position In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Tualet in Russian was borrowed from French and it means 1. a garment, usually a fancy ensemble; 2. taking care of one's appearance (zanimat'sja svoim tualetom); 3. a table with a mirror; 4. (finally the euphemistic) bathroom. The English toilet would be translated as unitaz. Ubornaja, BTW is also a euphemism, as can be deduced from the fact that the same word is used for designating a room where actors change their costumes and put make up. And ubor also means 'attire'. So it is along the same idea as 'powder room'. Can't read the last word. On Mar 30, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Dustin Hosseini wrote: > (Gde tualet? / A gde u vas tualet? if that didn't come > through)... but, at least in the US, people rarely say 'Where is the > toilet?' but rather 'Where is the restroom?' > > But a friend of mine raised a question: what about the word > "у&#1073;орная"? > Alina Israeli LFS, American University 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW Washington DC. 20016 (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 aisrael at american.edu ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Sun Mar 30 21:30:33 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:30:33 -0400 Subject: a possibly minority position In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Alina Israeli wrote: > Tualet in Russian was borrowed from French and it means 1. a garment, > usually a fancy ensemble; 2. taking care of one's appearance > (zanimat'sja svoim tualetom); 3. a table with a mirror; 4. (finally the > euphemistic) bathroom. > > The English toilet would be translated as unitaz. When we need to disambiguate, an унитаз is called a "commode." This word can only refer to the fixture, never to the room. "Toilet" is ambiguous, at least in American English. It can even be a verb (!). -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Sun Mar 30 21:34:47 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:34:47 +0100 Subject: a possibly minority position Message-ID: I thought that ?????? was used for the room and ?????? for the receptacle. I don't think we want students to ask "??? ???????" ! ... John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alina Israeli" To: Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position > Tualet in Russian was borrowed from French and it means 1. a garment, > usually a fancy ensemble; 2. taking care of one's appearance (zanimat'sja > svoim tualetom); 3. a table with a mirror; 4. (finally the euphemistic) > bathroom. > > The English toilet would be translated as unitaz. > > Ubornaja, BTW is also a euphemism, as can be deduced from the fact that > the same word is used for designating a room where actors change their > costumes and put make up. And ubor also means 'attire'. So it is along > the same idea as 'powder room'. > > Can't read the last word. > > On Mar 30, 2008, at 1:42 PM, Dustin Hosseini wrote: >> (Gde tualet? / A gde u vas tualet? if that didn't come >> through)... but, at least in the US, people rarely say 'Where is the >> toilet?' but rather 'Where is the restroom?' >> >> But a friend of mine raised a question: what about the word >> "у&#1073;орная"? >> > > > Alina Israeli > LFS, American University > 4400 Massachusetts Ave., NW > Washington DC. 20016 > (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076 > aisrael at american.edu > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 31 00:19:10 2008 From: iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:19:10 -0500 Subject: a possibly minority position Message-ID: John, Could you transliterate the Russian words? They came out garbled; or at least on my end they are all question marks ???? Dustin ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 31 00:26:40 2008 From: iamlearningenglish at GMAIL.COM (Dustin Hosseini) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 19:26:40 -0500 Subject: Using Russian Synonyms vs. Using Russian: A Guide... Message-ID: Dear all, I'd like to purchase at least one of these books; I might even consider buying them both. I've read a little about the "Using Russian: A Guide to Contemporary Usage" and it looks like a good read and reference. Amazon.com even had a preview of some parts of the book. I'm very interested in the part about register and Russian used in various settings (from a chat room to a courtroom). But what about "Using Russian Synonyms"? Would some of you who have used this book please be so kind as to give some commentary about its advantages and disadvantages? I could not find an online preview of this book anywhere. If possible, an example or two of what the book offers would be appreciated as well. Best regards, Dustin H. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM Mon Mar 31 01:08:35 2008 From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 21:08:35 -0400 Subject: a possibly minority position In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dustin Hosseini wrote: > John, > > Could you transliterate the Russian words? They came out garbled; or at > least on my end they are all question marks ???? Not your fault. John's Outlook Express 6 sent his message with the following parameters (I've omitted the irrelevant parts): Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Seven-bit encoding will always convert Cyrillic to question marks, and the information is cannot be recovered at the receiving end. I have no idea why OE decided that this message required only Western encoding, and 7-bit to boot -- I don't use the program. Sorry. -- War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. -- Paul B. Gallagher pbg translations, inc. "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" http://pbg-translations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From wfr at SAS.AC.UK Mon Mar 31 01:17:22 2008 From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (William Ryan) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 02:17:22 +0100 Subject: a possibly minority position In-Reply-To: <47F00679.1030901@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: In British English the toilet unit itself is called, in a hardware catalogue, a 'toilet pan' (hence the expression 'down the pan' = gone to waste, ruined) or sometimes 'toilet pedestal', or just 'toilet', and this is indeed the Russian 'unitaz' (from the British brand name Unitas, c. 1870 - I have seen several with this trade mark in older Russian houses). But 'toilet' is vague and can also be a room or whole edifice, e.g. a public toilet. British and American euphemisms in this area differ a good deal and can be a source of embarrassing international misunderstanding. I remember, as a young student still unfamiliar with US English, being accosted by an elderly American lady in the Bodleian Library in Oxford who asked me if I could direct her to 'the little girl's room' (I am not sure where the apostrophe goes). I was genuinely puzzled by this and unable to help her. Will Ryan Paul B. Gallagher wrote: > Alina Israeli wrote: > >> Tualet in Russian was borrowed from French and it means 1. a >> garment, usually a fancy ensemble; 2. taking care of one's >> appearance (zanimat'sja svoim tualetom); 3. a table with a mirror; >> 4. (finally the euphemistic) bathroom. >> >> The English toilet would be translated as unitaz. > > When we need to disambiguate, an унитаз is called a "commode." This > word can only refer to the fixture, never to the room. "Toilet" is > ambiguous, at least in American English. It can even be a verb (!). > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From klinela at COMCAST.NET Mon Mar 31 02:34:18 2008 From: klinela at COMCAST.NET (Laura Kline) Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:34:18 -0400 Subject: moscowstore.com In-Reply-To: <38B22CFE2B26C144BE65A022C10E70047F02116E52@PITT-EXCH-07.univ.pitt.edu> Message-ID: Has anyone ordered anything from moscowstore.com? A friend of mine wants to order a rather expensive watch, and is a bit concerned about their legitimacy. Thank you! Laura Kline ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jm3 at EVANSVILLE.EDU Mon Mar 31 13:24:24 2008 From: jm3 at EVANSVILLE.EDU (Meredig, John) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:24:24 -0500 Subject: a possibly minority position In-Reply-To: A<47F03BA2.9060406@sas.ac.uk> Message-ID: All this toilet talk reminds me of all the amusement I caused for my German friends many years ago when I told them: Ich muss ins Klo. The room vs. the fixture can indeed be an important distinction. John Meredig -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of William Ryan Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:17 PM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position In British English the toilet unit itself is called, in a hardware catalogue, a 'toilet pan' (hence the expression 'down the pan' = gone to waste, ruined) or sometimes 'toilet pedestal', or just 'toilet', and this is indeed the Russian 'unitaz' (from the British brand name Unitas, c. 1870 - I have seen several with this trade mark in older Russian houses). But 'toilet' is vague and can also be a room or whole edifice, e.g. a public toilet. British and American euphemisms in this area differ a good deal and can be a source of embarrassing international misunderstanding. I remember, as a young student still unfamiliar with US English, being accosted by an elderly American lady in the Bodleian Library in Oxford who asked me if I could direct her to 'the little girl's room' (I am not sure where the apostrophe goes). I was genuinely puzzled by this and unable to help her. Will Ryan Paul B. Gallagher wrote: > Alina Israeli wrote: > >> Tualet in Russian was borrowed from French and it means 1. a garment, >> usually a fancy ensemble; 2. taking care of one's appearance >> (zanimat'sja svoim tualetom); 3. a table with a mirror; 4. (finally >> the euphemistic) bathroom. >> >> The English toilet would be translated as unitaz. > > When we need to disambiguate, an унитаз is called a "commode." This > word can only refer to the fixture, never to the room. "Toilet" is > ambiguous, at least in American English. It can even be a verb (!). > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM Mon Mar 31 15:36:59 2008 From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 08:36:59 -0700 Subject: a possibly minority position In-Reply-To: <5C7554D82F4671478985015814A65B770E063E8B@UEEXCHANGE.evansville.edu> Message-ID: Dear John and Ryan and All, It seems that Dr. Samuel Johnson may have something to contribute to toilet references, viz., "the smallest room in the house." As he wrote once upon a time to one of his critics: "I'm reading your letter. I'm sitting in the smallest room in the house. It shall soon be behind me." Cheers, Jerry Katsell -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Meredig, John Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:24 AM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position All this toilet talk reminds me of all the amusement I caused for my German friends many years ago when I told them: Ich muss ins Klo. The room vs. the fixture can indeed be an important distinction. John Meredig -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of William Ryan Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:17 PM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position In British English the toilet unit itself is called, in a hardware catalogue, a 'toilet pan' (hence the expression 'down the pan' = gone to waste, ruined) or sometimes 'toilet pedestal', or just 'toilet', and this is indeed the Russian 'unitaz' (from the British brand name Unitas, c. 1870 - I have seen several with this trade mark in older Russian houses). But 'toilet' is vague and can also be a room or whole edifice, e.g. a public toilet. British and American euphemisms in this area differ a good deal and can be a source of embarrassing international misunderstanding. I remember, as a young student still unfamiliar with US English, being accosted by an elderly American lady in the Bodleian Library in Oxford who asked me if I could direct her to 'the little girl's room' (I am not sure where the apostrophe goes). I was genuinely puzzled by this and unable to help her. Will Ryan Paul B. Gallagher wrote: > Alina Israeli wrote: > >> Tualet in Russian was borrowed from French and it means 1. a garment, >> usually a fancy ensemble; 2. taking care of one's appearance >> (zanimat'sja svoim tualetom); 3. a table with a mirror; 4. (finally >> the euphemistic) bathroom. >> >> The English toilet would be translated as unitaz. > > When we need to disambiguate, an унитаз is called a "commode." This > word can only refer to the fixture, never to the room. "Toilet" is > ambiguous, at least in American English. It can even be a verb (!). > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU Mon Mar 31 17:08:21 2008 From: Cynthia.Ruder at UKY.EDU (Ruder, Cynthia A) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 13:08:21 -0400 Subject: Mikhalkov's 12 Message-ID: Seelangers: Does anyone know if there a subtitled version of Mikhalkov's "12" has been released on DVD? The ones I have been able to find seem to be only in Russian, unless I have misunderstood the promo information (which is entirely possible). In any case, if anyone knows where to purchase a legal, subtitled copy, please respond to me OFF LIST at cynthia.ruder at uky.edu Thanks in advance for your help. Cynthia A. Ruder, Associate Professor University of Kentucky MCL/Russian & Eastern Studies 1055 Patterson Lexington, KY 40506-0027 859.257.7026 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From julia8 at BERKELEY.EDU Mon Mar 31 18:15:54 2008 From: julia8 at BERKELEY.EDU (Julia McAnallen) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:15:54 -0700 Subject: Call for Papers: Special Issue of SEEJ In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear Professor Rifkin, I plan to submit an abstract to you tomorrow, but have a question about the format of examples. For examples in Russian, should I provide glosses? (They will be transliterated.) Thank you! Julia McAnallen > Dear SEELANGers: > > A special issue of SEEJ on the teaching and learning of Slavic Languages > and > Cultures is being planned, guest edited by Olga E. Kagan and Benjamin > Rifkin. > > In 1997 we invited submissions for a volume The Teaching and Learning of > Slavic Languages and Cultures (eds. Kagan and Rifkin, with Bauchus). The > volume was published by Slavica in 2000 and received an award from AATSEEL > in 2001. The purpose of this special issue for SEEJ is to see what > changes > have occurred in the field since then. The editors welcome submissions on > curricular innovations and assessment, use of technologies, task-based and > content-based teaching, issues encountered in teaching at the advanced > level > and with heritage speakers, and analyses of empirical data on the learning > and teaching of any Slavic language. Submissions on any other topics > related to the learning and teaching of Slavic languages and cultures are > welcome. > > The papers must present original research and must not have been published > elsewhere previously or be under consideration for publication elsewhere > when submitted to SEEJ. Those submitting abstracts and papers must be > members of AATSEEL. > > Please submit an abstract (250 words) by e-mail to Benjamin Rifkin by > e-mail > attachment (.doc, .rtf, .txt, or .pdf) at brifkin at temple.edu by April 1, > 2008. SEEJ is a peer-refereed journal. Submissions must be in English. > (The deadline for the submission of full papers will be September 1, > 2008.) > > If you have questions, please feel free to contact me or Olga Kagan > (okagan at ucla.edu). > > Sincerely, > > Ben Rifkin > Professor of Russian > Temple University > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK Mon Mar 31 18:25:22 2008 From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 19:25:22 +0100 Subject: songs and games in the classroom Message-ID: Dear colleagues A couple of further queries for the adaptation of my Ruslan course for the US market. I would be grateful if those teaching beginners Russian have time to respond. 1. Do you like using language games that involve students moving around the classroom talking to each other in Russian? I have been encouraged to drop these from my US edition, as your classrooms are perhaps more "rigid" than ours in the UK. But I am not sure of this advice, and I want to check it. Example of such a game for beginners in the first few lessons of a beginners course. They already know - Izvinite! Ya- Vy - Da - Net, and a few other necessary words. - students choose a profession - either inzhener, muzikant or zhurnalist. They don't tell anyone who they are. - they then have to get up from their seats and regroup in 3 groups, all the engineers together, etc, using Russian only. Teacher stays on hand to help with vocab etc as needed. 2. Will there be any resistance from teachers to the idea of fun songs for learners using popular Russian tunes with new words? There is an example of such a song to the tune of "Iz-za ostrova na strezhen" at http://www.ruslan.co.uk/songs/Iz_aeroporta_v_centr.wmv - only low quality, the song is being recorded properly next week. It has been suggested that some teachers will see this as a mockery, but I think that the memorable context is a good aid to learning. There are likely to be 4 or 5 such items in the new book. Thanks for any feedback John Langran www.ruslan.co.uk ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From avs2120 at COLUMBIA.EDU Mon Mar 31 21:03:24 2008 From: avs2120 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Andrey Shcherbenok) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 17:03:24 -0400 Subject: Conference: Screened Sexuality: Desire in Russian, Soviet, and Post-Soviet Cinema (October 10-11, 2008, Columbia U) CALL FOR PAPERS Message-ID: Call for Conference Papers Screened Sexuality: Desire in Russian, Soviet, and Post-Soviet Cinema Society of Fellows in the Humanities, Harriman Institute, Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures Columbia University, October 10-11, 2008 The close association between cinema and sexual desire has been established since the inception of cinematography. Set at the juncture of secrecy and exhibitionism, cinema provides a powerful medium for both the orchestration of spectatorial desire and reflection on human sexuality, which, at least since the works of Christian Metz and The Screen theorists, have become a subject of sustained scholarly analysis. Studies of individual film genres have shed light on the staging of sexual desire in topoi ranging from thriller plots to melodramatic mise-en-scene, while, starting with the works of Linda Williams, the study of the cinematic representation of the sexual act has also become firmly entrenched in cinema studies. At the same time, studies of sexual desire in a given cinematic tradition cutting across the boundaries of genres and theories remain scarce, and the field of Russian, Soviet and Post-Soviet cinema is not an exception. Although there are a number of works on the representation of femininity, masculinity and gender politics in this cinematic tradition, few scholars of the subject address sexual desire per se. Even when desire is addressed, existing studies tend to put the stress upon the ways (apparently "natural") sexuality is repressed, "perverted" or appropriated, mainly for political purposes, rather than upon the cinematic mechanisms that create a sexual dynamic between diegetic characters or the spectator and the screen. This conference aims to explore the ways sexual desire is articulated in and constituted by cinema. While realizing that sexuality is implicated in a potentially unlimited number of phenomena, many of which find their reflection in films, we solicit papers that focus specifically on sexual desire and address it in medium-specific and theoretically sophisticated ways. The boundaries of the cinematic material to be discussed, on the contrary, will be left open within the broad expanse of Russian, Soviet and Post-Soviet space: we encourage papers that juxtapose cinematic desires from that space with those of other cinematic traditions, papers that combine close readings of individual films with reflections on the limits of Western theories of cinematic sexuality, and papers that trace the continuities and discontinuities in the way cinematic desire is represented, aroused, and transformed across time and space in the region. Please, send your abstract (300 words) and CV to Andrey Shcherbenok at avs2120 at columbia.edu by June 15, 2008. Finalists will be contacted in early September, 2008. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From lino59 at AMERITECH.NET Mon Mar 31 19:27:10 2008 From: lino59 at AMERITECH.NET (Deborah Hoffman) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 12:27:10 -0700 Subject: document from GARF In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Can anyone recommend a (relatively) convenient way to obtain the following document? It is listed with Yad Vashem but I have tried several times going that route without success and have given up. Title List of survivors and perished from Lipecka Polana, prepared by the Soviet Extraordinary State Commission, 02/04/1946; includes itemization of property damage Original title Акт-список Relevant places LIPECKA POLANA, CHUST, CARPATHIAN RUTHENIA, CZECHOSLOVAKIA Earliest Date 02/04/1946 Latest Date 02/04/1946 Group identity Jewish Mixed Type of material List of Persecuted Population census Number of names on list 123 Language Russian Record Group M.33 - Records of the Extraordinary State Commission to Investigate German-Fascist Crimes Committed on Soviet Territory File No. JM/21194 No. of pages/frames 16 Archive of origin GOSUDARSTVENNY ARKHIV ROSSIYSKOY FEDERATSII - RUSSIA, MOSKVA Original file No. 7021-62-129 Provenance הוועדה לחקר פשעי הנאצים בבריה``מ, ChGK Provenance -place Moskva Microfilm code JM/21194 הערת תוכן מתורגמת העמודים חלקם חוזרים על עצמם Source of record Yad Vashem Item Number 6230037 Deborah Hoffman, Esq. Russian > English Legal and Literary Translations A man ceases to be a beginner in any given science and becomes a master in that science when he has learned that he is going to be a beginner all his life. -- R. G. Collingwood ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From ajda.kljun at GMAIL.COM Mon Mar 31 21:53:55 2008 From: ajda.kljun at GMAIL.COM (Ajda Kljun) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 23:53:55 +0200 Subject: a possibly minority position In-Reply-To: <000001c89345$0f90e640$6401a8c0@D569F421> Message-ID: Wasn't it the German musician Max Reger who said that? See http://books.google.si/books?id=wgoOxgWl6roC&pg=PA744&lpg=PA744&dq=%22smallest+room%22+reger&source=web&ots=wQeFp1K4gT&sig=4ulGjqG_7T2pNAvArXSREZGVsuc&hl=sl#PPA744,M1. Regards, Ajda. 2008/3/31, Jerry Katsell : > > Dear John and Ryan and All, > > It seems that Dr. Samuel Johnson may have something to contribute to > toilet references, viz., "the smallest room in the house." As he wrote > once upon a time to one of his critics: > > > "I'm reading your letter. I'm sitting in the smallest room in the house. > It shall soon be behind me." > > Cheers, > > Jerry Katsell > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list > [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Meredig, John > Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 6:24 AM > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position > > All this toilet talk reminds me of all the amusement I caused for my > German friends many years ago when I told them: Ich muss ins Klo. The > room vs. the fixture can indeed be an important distinction. > > John Meredig > > -----Original Message----- > From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list > [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of William Ryan > Sent: Sunday, March 30, 2008 8:17 PM > To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position > > In British English the toilet unit itself is called, in a hardware > catalogue, a 'toilet pan' (hence the expression 'down the pan' = gone to > waste, ruined) or sometimes 'toilet pedestal', or just 'toilet', and > this is indeed the Russian 'unitaz' (from the British brand name Unitas, > c. 1870 - I have seen several with this trade mark in older Russian > houses). But 'toilet' is vague and can also be a room or whole edifice, > e.g. a public toilet. > > British and American euphemisms in this area differ a good deal and can > be a source of embarrassing international misunderstanding. I remember, > as a young student still unfamiliar with US English, being accosted by > an elderly American lady in the Bodleian Library in Oxford who asked me > if I could direct her to 'the little girl's room' (I am not sure where > the apostrophe goes). I was genuinely puzzled by this and unable to help > her. > > Will Ryan > > > Paul B. Gallagher wrote: > > Alina Israeli wrote: > > > >> Tualet in Russian was borrowed from French and it means 1. a garment, > > >> usually a fancy ensemble; 2. taking care of one's appearance > >> (zanimat'sja svoim tualetom); 3. a table with a mirror; 4. (finally > >> the euphemistic) bathroom. > >> > >> The English toilet would be translated as unitaz. > > > > When we need to disambiguate, an унитаз is called a "commode." This > > word can only refer to the fixture, never to the room. "Toilet" is > > ambiguous, at least in American English. It can even be a verb (!). > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > - > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From pr52 at CORNELL.EDU Mon Mar 31 15:17:40 2008 From: pr52 at CORNELL.EDU (Philip Robinson) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 11:17:40 -0400 Subject: a possibly minority position In-Reply-To: <47F03993.4000505@pbg-translations.com> Message-ID: While we're on this subject, I am probably not the first person to make this request on SEELANGS, but it would be most helpful if those who post something in Cyrillic would also provide a Latin transliteration. As much as I prefer to read Russian and other languages in Cyrillic, about a third of the Cyrillic text in SEELANGS postings does not render correctly, and I use a variety of web-based and fat-client email readers with different encoding schemes to try to parse them. Regards, Phil Robinson At 09:08 PM 3/30/2008, you wrote: >Dustin Hosseini wrote: > >>John, >>Could you transliterate the Russian words? They came out garbled; or at >>least on my end they are all question marks ???? > >Not your fault. > >John's Outlook Express 6 sent his message with the following >parameters (I've omitted the irrelevant parts): > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Seven-bit encoding will always convert Cyrillic to question marks, >and the information is cannot be recovered at the receiving end. > >I have no idea why OE decided that this message required only >Western encoding, and 7-bit to boot -- I don't use the program. Sorry. > >-- >War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. >-- >Paul B. Gallagher >pbg translations, inc. >"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" >http://pbg-translations.com > >------------------------------------------------------------------------- >Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU Mon Mar 31 22:48:28 2008 From: pstock at BRANDEIS.EDU (David Powelstock) Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2008 18:48:28 -0400 Subject: Cyrillic encodings In-Reply-To: <6.2.5.6.2.20080331110821.02dcf698@cornell.edu> Message-ID: Yes, and to the extend your computer savvy (or that of someone you know) allows, please try to set your keyboard and email programs to use UTF-8 ("8-bit Unicode"). This is the standard toward which everything is going, and so you'd be doing yourself (and everyone else!) a favor by moving toward it. Best wishes to all, David David Powelstock Asst. Prof. of Russian & East European Literatures Chair, Program in Russian & East European Studies Brandeis University GRALL, MS 024 Waltham, MA 02454-9110 781.736.3347 (Office) -----Original Message----- From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Philip Robinson Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 11:18 AM To: SEELANGS at BAMA.UA.EDU Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] a possibly minority position While we're on this subject, I am probably not the first person to make this request on SEELANGS, but it would be most helpful if those who post something in Cyrillic would also provide a Latin transliteration. As much as I prefer to read Russian and other languages in Cyrillic, about a third of the Cyrillic text in SEELANGS postings does not render correctly, and I use a variety of web-based and fat-client email readers with different encoding schemes to try to parse them. Regards, Phil Robinson At 09:08 PM 3/30/2008, you wrote: >Dustin Hosseini wrote: > >>John, >>Could you transliterate the Russian words? They came out garbled; or >>at least on my end they are all question marks ???? > >Not your fault. > >John's Outlook Express 6 sent his message with the following parameters >(I've omitted the irrelevant parts): > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >Seven-bit encoding will always convert Cyrillic to question marks, and >the information is cannot be recovered at the receiving end. > >I have no idea why OE decided that this message required only Western >encoding, and 7-bit to boot -- I don't use the program. Sorry. > >-- >War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left. >-- >Paul B. Gallagher >pbg translations, inc. >"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals" >http://pbg-translations.com > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your >subscription > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: > http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >-- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------