Russian attitudes toards Germans (Baltic & otherwise)

Thu Apr 23 23:31:32 UTC 2009

Dear Prof. Slivkin,

This would certainly explain Pogodin's remark.  Thank you.  It was a 
question of to whom or to what one was loyal, and loyalty to the tsar did 
not cover up their perceived underlying distaste for Russia.  It's 
interesting that Pogodin said this in 1869, and not before Nicholas I was 
safely in his grave.  But wasn't Aksakov chastised for being critical of the 
Ostsee Germans about this time?  Reading Nikitenko's Diary has given me a 
new insight into the extent of anti-German sentiment c. 1870, at least in 
the Academy of Sciences.

Somewhere I think I read that the 3rd Section was sometimes called "The 
German Section."  Do you know if this is true?  Also, is Proskurin's 
argument generally accepted?  I've glanced at Monas's book on the 3rd 
Section and saw nothing about Germans at all.

With thanks for your help,

Richard Benert
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Slivkin, Yevgeniy A." <slivkin at OU.EDU>
To: <SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu>
Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:40 AM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Russian attitudes toards Germans (Baltic & 
otherwise)

> "I wonder why he drew this distinction between Ostsee
> Germans and good, loyal "Russian Germans," when so many of the latter 
> group
> were also Ostsee Germans. "
>
> Dear Richard,
>
> It was the Ostsee Germans who most successfully competed against Russians 
> in state and military services, thus generating hatred in the Russian 
> nobility. Oleg Proskurin in his book "Literaturnye skandaly pushkinskoi 
> epokhi" (The Literary Scandals of Pushkin's Epoch) argues that the Third 
> Section of His Majesty's Chancellery (the secret political police) was 
> created mostly to defend the interests of the powerful ethnic group within 
> the Russian elite, that is the Ostsee Germans. The Third Section indeed 
> was headed by representatives of this group (Benkendorf, Von Voks, 
> Dubelt).
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Yevgeny Slivkin
>
> ________________________________________
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list 
> [SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Vera Beljakova [atacama at GLOBAL.CO.ZA]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 2:08 AM
> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
> Subject: [SEELANGS] Russian attitudes toards Germans (Baltic & otherwise)
>
> "ostzeiskii vopros" -
> Since Richard doesn't read/know Russian
>
> "ostzeiskii vopros" - Ostsee Question / Ostsee Frage
> "ostzeiskii nemetz" - Ostsee Gerrman (Baltic)
>
> On the other hand the Baltic Germans were the mainstay of the
> Russian Empire (military & civil service ...or are these now counted as
> 'russified Germans' ?
>
> A very good publication is that by Dr Michael Katin-Yartsew who wrote
> his doctoral thesis on the 'Baltic German (nobility) in the Service of the
> Russian Empire".
>
> Vera Beljakova
> Johannesburg
>
>
>
>  Subject:Re: [SEELANGS] A poem of Apollon N. Maikov
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Richard,
>
> Since you are researching "late Imperial Russian attitudes towards 
> Germans", I thought you would be interested to know that years ago I came 
> across a little known brochure by the historian and journalist M. P.
> Pogodin (editor of “Moskovskii vestnik”and “Moskovitianin”) entitled
> “Ostzeiskii vopros” (1869). In this pamphlet, the author addresses
> Professor Shirren, an “ostzeiskii nemets” who occupied the position of 
> Dean
> of the Department of History and Law at the University of Derpt (Tartu).
> Below I quote a characteristic passage in my clumsy translation:
> “For us, all Germans fall into three categories: 1) The German Germans, 
> the
> residents of Germany â€“ we honor and respect them as a first class 
> European
> nation. 2) The Russian Germans, those Germans who became russified, who
> serve our state and live among us â€“ we love them and are grateful to 
> them
> for the many services they have rendered to us. 3) The ostzeiskie Germans,
> those who are the most viciously antagonistic to us. Their existence and
> attitude to us well justify the proverb: “One could not make an enemy for
> himself unless one gave him food and drink with his own hand.” You, the
> ostzeiskie Germans, hate us in your hearts. And this hatred is the most
> convincing proof of your own malady.”
>
> Regards,
>
> Yevgeny Slivkin, Ph.D.
> Department of Modern Languages, Literatures, and Linguistics
> University of Oklahoma
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
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