commentary to student safety in St Petersburg

[Dustin Hosseini]

On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 12:26:33 -0600, Shlomit Gorin <shlogo at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

>Dustin-
>
>Again, I feel the educators/directors who blatantly say 'Russia is
>> dangerous' for groups XYZ are doing a great disservice.

It's a great disservice to discourage someone from taking a risk that could
possibly be one of the best experiences of their life.  You keep focusing on
the negatives and what bad could go wrong; I guess I am too optimistic for
my own good, and actually believe that humans, even Russians, can change for
the better.   It's sad you do not share that view. 

>
>A great disservice to whom? Can you really expect anyone for whom it is
>risky to whatever extent to study abroad in Russia to take that risk for the
>potentially greater good of Russia (since you think that mingling between
>different races inevitably leads to equal rights for all races)? Again, if I
>were black, I wouldn't be going to Russia anytime soon - even if I thought
>that it might help alleviate racism for me to be there (which I don't).
>
>
>> I agree, students should be warned of the risks, however there are a few
>> educators and directors who would, I feel, prefer not to risk anything at
>> all.
>>
>> However, as two instructors have posted, giving a clear picture might be
>> the best way, but at the same time it should not turn students off from
>> going abroad.
>>
>
>If it turns some students off, that's their decision to make. I don't think
>it's your place to tell certain people that they should not be scared to
>study abroad in Russia - especially when there are very real risks. Of
>course it's not guaranteed that a student of color will have any problems,
>but I think if s/he didn't encounter any manifestation of racism (hostile
>looks, slurs, or other types of insult and aggression), that s/he would be
>very lucky.
>

Why isn't it my place to say that they should not be scared, especially when
I have personal experience of living in Moscow?

Why is it your place to tell them that they, students of color, should fear
Russia?  Perhaps you have some other agenda against Russia itself?

>You asked in a previous post whether LGBT students should be kept away from
>Russia. It's a similar issue here - all students should be informed about
>all problems they may possibly encounter, and it is their choice whether or
>not they are willing to take any risks.
>
>You wrote that LGBT people have "other venues to use" aside from cyberspace
>to socialize. Firstly, if you mean gay bars, which you mentioned in a
>previous post, then I think you're forgetting that gay bars aren't exactly
>the safest place for socializing. Secondly, and more importantly, the issue
>here is not about how many venues LGBT people have for socializing in
>Russia. It's about the LGBT community being safe and having equal rights.

You are correct, they aren't the safest of places, but then again, it all
comes down to people being aware of others and their surroundings, doesn't
it?  For now, even though I hate to say it, the Russian LGBT community is
safe if it doesn't make too many waves.  Again, as I've already said, if
they can get themselves adequately organized, things will hopefully improve.  

>>
>> Then again... there is one view that I have had to come to terms:  What
>> does it matter if you are gay or not?  It is your own business and no one
>> elses. What are the reasons for flagging it?  Why should anyone go to LGBT
>> groups and associate/identify with them?
>>
>> I don't necessarily subscribe to the view above, but some people within and
>> outside of the LGBT community at large do hold similar views, whether we are
>> focusing on Russians or Americans, or others.
>>
>
>Well, it matters if you're gay or not for many reasons. Why wouldn't it
>matter? Our sexualities and relationships are enormously meaningful for us -
>and they matter even more when we don't have equal rights and our lives
>aren't safe because of who we love. Yes, in a utopia perhaps such things as
>gender, race, ethnicity, and sexuality wouldn't matter - we'd all just love
>one another and everything would be beautiful, but I don't think I have to
>tell you that that's not very realistic

Yes - they are greatly meaningful - to us as individuals.  Some, however,
hold the view of - what does it really matter?  Why should X tell Y that he
or she is L G B or T?   In the end, for some, but not all, they are labels
that create stereotypes.  

>>
>> Americans experience similar if entirely not the same problems as their
>> Russian counterparts.
>


There are laws based on sexuality, you are correct, but not all states have
laws based on sexual orientation:
http://lawdigest.uslegal.com/civil-rights/sexual-discrimination-and-orientation/7177/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_the_United_States#Anti-discrimination_laws



>That's not true at all.  Of course American LGBT folks don't have equal
>rights and are the target of hate crimes and homophobia in various
>manifestations, but there are actually laws against discrimination based on
>sexuality in the U.S. and there are places in the U.S. (not enough, of
>course) that are generally safe places to be if you're LGBT. I live in
>Berkeley, which is a uniquely tolerant place for the LGBT community, and
>there is nothing comparable in Russia to the level of support of gay rights
>that exists in the Bay Area (San Francisco and Berkeley, namely).
>
>I do not argue for people to change themselves.  It is ultimately an
>> individual's decision to chose what to do, and that choice lies within that
>> person, even if there are outside influences constraining them.
>>
>
>Really? Did you choose to be heterosexual?  And even if one's sexuality is a
>choice, what are you saying? That LGBT folks shouldn't complain about
>oppression against them since they made the choice to be LGBT despite
>knowing about the "outside influences constraining them?"

No, I certainly didn't choose to be heterosexual, I somehow came out as
homosexual!   I don't feel it is a choice either.  The decision to disclose
that one is LGBT or not lies within the individual  - so whether or not they
wish to let loose that fact is their choice - that is what I mean.  

>
>> But can disinterest in protecting a group be taken as actively going after
>> and attacking it?
>>
>
>I don't think anyone was conflating disinterest or unwillingness in
>protecting a group with actively going after and attacking it. The point is
>that there is systematic oppression of LGBT folks in Russia and yes, failure
>to protect them is part of the systematic oppression. Oppression doesn't
>consist solely of attacking people.
>
>You insist on repeating that Russia isn't ready for gay rights. Again, no
>meaningful change has happened by waiting for people to be ready for it. Why
>should anyone be complacent when they are oppressed?

They shouldn't be complacent, my argument is that why should outsiders
interfere on their behalf?  I could be mistaken, but I don't think any
foreigners came over to help out with Stonewall in New York in 1969.  

And to add to that, until for example Britain and US resolve their issues
with their respective LGBT communities, I do not believe for a minute that
gay rights organizations from those countries have any good reason to add to
or interfere with the gay rights movement in Russia.  Solve the problems at
home first before gallivanting around elsewhere. 

>
>Shlomit
>
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