Tiuremno-blatnaya lirika/Bakhtin

[Patrick Seriot]

Thank you so much for reminding that etymology is not a proof for the  
meaning of a word!
Unfortunately it is a very wide spread idea in Russia.
Patrick Sériot

Le 16 sept. 09 à 11:17, William Ryan a écrit :

The quotation from Averintsev given by Sasha Smith is, I think, a  
piece of learned nonsense. There is a big difference between the  
etymology of a word and its meaning. The primary meaning of 'shut' is  
fool, its use as a euphemism for the devil is secondary. How many  
Russians are so conscious that 'poshutit'' is derived from 'shut', and  
that 'shut' is a possible euphemism for the devil, that they would  
avoid using the word in a religious context? A quick experiment on the  
internet, searching for 'sviatoi' and 'poshutil', found many examples  
of the two words used together, including the following from an  
Orthodox Church website: "Как только построили  
Мавзолей у Кремлевской стены, его  
затопило канализацией. Святой  
Патриарх Тихон пошутил по этому  
поводу: "По мощам и елей". " On the Patriarchs  
website, the entry for 22 June 2007 is the life of St Aleksii Mechev:  
Он не любил ссор, хотел, чтобы всем было  
хорошо; любил развеселить, утешить,  
пошутить. And on a gospel site I found "Христос  
пошутил  над фарисеями".
I rest my case.

Will Ryan


Alexandra Smith wrote:
> Dear John,
>
> I entirely agree with your call for a more sophisticated theoretical
> framework that could explain some specifics of the the dissociative
> element present in Russian slang/"zhargon" that have different
> contextual settings in comparison with other forms of corporate
> slang. I also think that Averintsev's illuminating article on Bakhtin
> and Russian attitudes towards laughter (С. С. Аверинцев.  
> "БАХТИН И
> РУССКОЕ ОТНОШЕНИЕ К СМЕХУ".(От мифа к  
> литературе: Сборник в честь
> 75-летия Е. М. Мелетинского . - М., 1993. - С.  
> 341-345).
> (http://www.philology.ru/literature1/averintsev-93.htm) should be
> taken into account when we deal with any manifestations of subversive
> laughter in Russian contexts. As Averintsev points out, when we talk
> about the need of Russians to laugh when it's not permissible to
> laugh, we are dealing with the special kind of energy and impulse
> ascribed with certain connotations. Thus Averintsev offers an
> important corrective to Bakhtin's model of laughter. Averintsev
> writes, for example:"В западной традиции  
> аскеты и вообще религиозные
> лидеры занимали в вопросе о смехе  
> различные позиции; но на уровне
> языкового обихода фраза "святой  
> пошутил" ("The saint made a joke") в
> западных языках семантически  
> допустима. По-русски такого и
> выговорить невозможно; подлежащее  
> "святой" отказывается соединяться
> со сказуемым "пошутил", и это потому,  
> что в народном языковом обиходе
> глагол "пошутить" систематически  
> обозначает деятельность бесов.
> Самый обычный русский эвфемизм для  
> беса - "шут" или, на более
> фольклорный лад, с оттенком боязливой  
> интимности - "шутик". Бес
> "шутит", сбивая с пути или запрятывая  
> позарез нужную вещь. Эта
> популярная демонология сама по себе,  
> конечно, не специфична для
> России; уникальна лишь энергия, с  
> которой сам язык связывает "беса" и
> "шутку", "грех" и "смех"."
>
> With best wishes, Sasha Smith
>
>
>
>
>
> *********************************************** Alexandra Smith (PhD,
> University of London) Reader in Russian Studies Department of
> European Languages and Cultures School of  Languages, Literatures and
> Cultures The University of Edinburgh David Hume Tower George Square
> Edinburgh EH8 9JX UK
>
> tel. +44-(0)131-6511381 fax: +44- (0)131- 650-3604 e-mail:
> Alexandra.Smith at ed.ac.uk
>
>
>


--------------------------------------
Patrick SERIOT
Professeur ordinaire de linguistique slave
Directeur du CRECLECO
Faculté des Lettres
Université de Lausanne
Anthropole
CH - 1015 LAUSANNE
tél. + 41 21 692 30 01
fax. + 41 21 692 29 35
mail :
Patrick.Seriot at unil.ch
http://www2.unil.ch/slav/ling

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                    http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
-------------------------------------------------------------------------