the good old days, and that pesky letter "shee" (formerly "shch")

[Kim Braithwaite]

So it's a matter of whether the tip of the tongue does or does not touch the 
alveolar ridge in forming Щ. If it does, then the sound English speakers 
make (Americans anyway) pronouncing the -st- in the middle of "question" 
comes closer to the Russian than the sh+ch (with phonemic juncture) in 
"fresh cheese." It has worked for me when explaining the Russian phoneme to 
new learners. Amusing historical note: the original Bondar's Simplified 
Russian Method (early to mid years of the 20th century) used "fresh cheeks"! 
Influenced by the щека connection no doubt.

Mr Kim Braithwaite, Translator
"Good is better than evil, because it's nicer" - Mammy Yokum (Al Capp)

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John Langran" <john at RUSLAN.CO.UK>
To: <SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 7:27 AM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] the good old days, and that pesky letter "shee" 
(formerly "shch")


Yes I thought this was StP versus Moscow.
In an explanation for French speakers I am putting
ш = CH as in "chat"
щ = CHI as in "chien"
Easy to remember for beginners, but perhaps doesn't quite do it justice

John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alina Israeli" <aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU>
To: <SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 2:57 PM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] the good old days, and that pesky letter "shee"
(formerly "shch")


The argument goes back to the Moskovskaja foneticheskaja shkola vs.
Leningradskaja foneticheskaja shkola. The old Petersburg
pronunciation was shch, whereas the the Moscow pronunciation (and
presumably of the rest of the country) was sh'sh' (long soft sh). It
took decades to convince many people that while they thought they
were saying shch, in fact they were pronouncing sh'sh', they had to
be caught on tape in flagranti and made to listen etc.

However, like with some other sounds, for emphasis and in very slow
and deliberate speech people say shch: On pojmal bol'shuju shchuku.
Chto u tebja za shchekoj. (You have to watch mounds of Russian movies
with a deliberate ear to actually hear it.)

Besides, let me assure you that if someone says Shchekochixin rather
than Shshekochixin, no one would think he is incorrect.

Alina

On Sep 16, 2009, at 9:38 AM, Tatyana Buzina wrote:

> Hello,
> If your student means that letter shch means two sounds (sh+ch),  and for 
> instance, щука (shchuka) is pronounced with five sounds (sh- ch-u-k-a) he 
> is wrong. It's "shuka" with long soft "sh" sound.  There is no "ch" sound 
> there.
> Regards,
> Tatyana
>
>>

Alina Israeli
Associate Professor of Russian
LFS, American University
4400 Massachusetts Ave.
Washington DC 20016
(202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076
aisrael at american.edu





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