taking poll on pronunciation

[Richard Robin]

Paul is, of course, right. Propaganda and emphasyma are not all CVCVCVCV.
And strength/length and syllabicity play a huge role in English stress
assignment. But the prevalence of four-syllable nouns with the pattern
СV̀CVСV́CV is quite striking, even in nouns without some closed syllables
(propaganda, Vlàdivóstok).

But is it a matter of historical shortening or a combination of that plus
vowel quality (strength/length) that are dictating the stress placement in
four-syllable nouns or is the result of a rule that requires both syllable
“shortening” (Great vowel shift) and secondary stress in the initial
syllable of 1-2-3́-4 environments? We have plenty of adjectives and verbs
with 1-2́-3-4 (‘proliferate’, ‘magnificent’) but nouns like ‘intelligence’
are rare (and in this case perhaps motivated by ‘intelligent’. Given the
fact that Russian four-syllable words (nearly all nouns) come into English
without length clues, as Nila Friedberg pointed out, I am suggesting that
the default to the most common 4-syllable noun stress pattern that we have
in the language.

On the matter of Khrushchev, I remember that [krúščhev] as a less common
variant of the [krúšhev] with the first syllable open. Does closed
syllabicity have that much to do with attracting the stress either onto or
away from the first syllable in two syllable English nouns?

On Gorbáchev: John McLaughlin of the McGlaughlin Group was one I remember
who insisted on [gorbáchev] or  [gorbáchov]

-Rich
.


Once again, a.mýg.da.la <http://a.xn--mg-0ka.da.la> (antepenultimate stress
> from Greek) is not CV.CV.CV.CV, and Kàl.a.ma.zóo usually wouldn't be. Your
> claim, in the absence of supporting evidence, remains unproven.
>
>
>  On the other hand, Americans have always had both stress and vowel
>> problems with Russian names containing ё, probably, as Hugh McLean
>> said, because of the transliteration, but also no doubt because
>> word-final stress in nouns (as in -ёв last names) is so rare in
>> English. So Khrúshchev was Khrushchóv only on the lips of President
>> Kennedy and NBC's Chet Huntley. Gorbachev defaulted to initial
>> stress, although a few talking heads insisted on Gorbáchev.
>>
>
> Another problem here, to which I alluded in a previous posting, is that
> closed syllables tend to attract stress. Since English cannot begin a
> syllable with /šč/ (/ʃʧ/), we must syllabify Khrush.chov, and that complex
> first syllable, besides being initial and penultimate, will also attract
> stress by dint of its complexity.
>
> I personally have /never/ heard Gorbáchev, only Górbachov and Gorbachóv and
> the occasional Górbachev. Was that a typo?
>
>
>  Finally, I would add that the hardest vocabulary item for my own
>> beginning students is the last name of our program's course
>> coordinator, Shatalina, which students insist on rhyming with
>> Catalina, even well into middle of first year.
>>
>> So how did Anna Karenina survive with her name intact?
>>
>
> Only repetition can account for it. If we hear something often enough, it
> becomes normal, no matter how weird it was to begin with. When I first moved
> to Ohio back in the late 1970s, I encountered people using the "needs done"
> construction (e.g., "the floor needs swept") for the first time in my life
> and thought it not only ungrammatical, but foreign and so defective as to
> reflect the speaker's illiteracy or incompetence (yes, the reaction was that
> strong). After 15 years in Columbus, I got used to it and even occasionally
> used it myself, to the consternation of my Eastern relatives and friends,
> who thought I had contracted some disease and advised me to seek
> professional help.
>
> --
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
>
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-- 
Richard M. Robin, Ph.D.
Director Russian Language Program
The George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052
202-994-7081
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Russkiy tekst v UTF-8

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