taking poll on pronunciation
serge tyuli
sergeytlnv at GMAIL.COM
Sat Jul 3 19:35:13 UTC 2010
Can you stop, all of you. You all seem to have a nederzhanie.
On Sat, Jul 3, 2010 at 7:06 PM, Melissa Smith <mtsmith02 at ysu.edu> wrote:
> Today, when watching the Wimbledon women's tennis final, I didn't
> understand who Serena William's opponent was until I saw it written:
> Zvonareva. The initial consonant cluster is impossible for English
> speakers. My greatest shock, however, came a few years ago when,
> listening to a Metropolitan Opera broadcast of "Boris Godunov," and
> heard our colleague Harlow Robinson pronounce the composer's name as
> MoussOR(G)sky. Now I tend to "correct" the Russian-like pronunciations
> that escape my lips with a "normative" American-like version (always
> prefaced by a necessarily pedantic, "you probably have heard it
> pronounced as...").
>
> Melissa Smith
>
> On 7/3/10 12:44 PM, Hugh McLean wrote:
> > Anna's feminine surname even miraculously survived an assault by
> > Vladimir Nabokov, who insisted on Anna Karenin and tried to establish
> a
> > rule that only ballerinas had the right to use their feminine surnames
> > in Western countries.His wife, of course, was Vera Nabokov, not
> > Nabokova, with an accent aigu over the e in Vera, because she didn't
> > like the pronunciation Veera. Even with that accent she still didn't
> get
> > the palatalized v. English biographies of Tolstoy's wife can't very
> well
> > call her Countess Tolstaya (despite Tat'yana's example); who would
> know
> > who that was? Whether they should call her Sonya or not is another
> > issue, perhaps stressful, but not about stress.
> > > A thought: Anna Karenina's integrity might have been preserved by
> her
> > > first name, as the book's title is repeated more often than the text
> > > is read, making the seven-syllable collocation a single semantic
> unit.
> > > Sports stars (Sharapova) and professors (Shatalina) more often find
> > > themselves without their first names.
> > >
> > > Bradley Gorski
> > >
> > > On Jul 2, 2010, at 6:33 PM, Inna Caron <caron.4 at BUCKEYEMAIL.OSU.EDU>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> Richard Robin wrote:
> > >>> So how did Anna Karenina survive with her name intact?
> > >>
> > >> Funny you should ask that. In Bernard Rose's film (1997), Anna,
> > >> courtesy of Sophie Marceau, asks Vronsky in a jealous fit: "Then
> why
> > >> was it delivered by Princess Soro-KIna?" (stress on "i" as opposed
> to
> > >> the second "o").
> > >>
> > >> Anyway, as the person responsible for the initial query I thank
> > >> everyone for confirming what I suspected from the beginning: a
> > >> general reader will be most comfortable with the pronunciation
> > >> "Boro-DIno." Good to know, and much easier to rhyme.
> > >>
> > >> IC
> > >>
> > >> ________________________________________
> > >> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures
> list
> > >> [SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] on behalf of Richard Robin [rrobin at GWU.EDU]
> > >> Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 11:39 AM
> > >> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
> > >> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] taking poll on pronunciation
> > >>
> > >> Specialists in English phonology will correct me, but isn't the
> English
> > >> default stress on a four-syllable noun composed of open syllables
> on the
> > >> penultimate? As in
> > >>
> > >> Manitoba
> > >> Colorado
> > >> propaganda
> > >> panorama
> > >> emphysema
> > >> plus the assigned place of stress for most place names of native
> > >> American
> > >> origin, regardless of language of origin.
> > >>
> > >> Exceptions to this tendency, like amygdala and Kalamazoo, *sound**
> *like
> > >> exceptions. So Sharapóva and Borodíno obey that rule.
> > >>
> > >> On the other hand, Americans have always had both stress and vowel
> > >> problems
> > >> with Russian names containing ё, probably, as Hugh McLean said,
> > >> because of
> > >> the transliteration, but also no doubt because word-final stress in
> > >> nouns
> > >> (as in -ёв last names) is so rare in English. So Khrúshchev was
> > >> Khrushchóv
> > >> only on the lips of President Kennedy and NBC's Chet Huntley.
> Gorbachev
> > >> defaulted to initial stress, although a few talking heads insisted
> on
> > >> Gorbáchev.
> > >>
> > >> Finally, I would add that the hardest vocabulary item for my own
> > >> beginning
> > >> students is the last name of our program's course coordinator,
> > >> Shatalina,
> > >> which students insist on rhyming with Catalina, even well into
> middle of
> > >> first year.
> > >>
> > >> So how did Anna Karenina survive with her name intact?
> > >>
> > >> -Richard Robin
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Jul 1, 2010 at 12:56 PM, Hugh McLean <hmclean at berkeley.edu>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> John Dunn is doubtless right that the Casanova model is
> responsible for
> > >>> SharapOva, though I wonder why such English models as intErrogate,
> > >>> regUrgitate, infUriate are ignored. In any case, the mindless
> > >>> provincialism
> > >>> of American TV sports announcers is especially noticeable during
> the
> > >>> Wimbledon broadcasts. Yesterday we had Berdych consistently
> pronounced
> > >>> burr-ditch by the American announcers and commentators, even
> though the
> > >>> official referee was doing a very good job of bear-dikh, with an
> > >>> excellent
> > >>> velar fricative for the Czech ch.
> > >>>
> > >>> Shame! Let's infuriate!
> > >>>
> > >>> Hugh McLean
> > >>>
> > >>>> As it happens, I have of late been contemplating the rules by
> which
> > >>>> English speakers assign stress to unfamiliar Russian names. In
> the
> > >>>> instance
> > >>>> of Borodino, two rules would seem to be relevant.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The first is that final stress is generally avoided. There are
> > >>>> exceptions
> > >>>> to this with some two-syllable names, particularly if they are
> > >>>> transliterated according to French norms (as used to be the
> > >>>> practice for
> > >>>> passports and the like), but final stress does not appear to occur
> > >>>> spontaneously with longer names.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The second rule is that English prefers to avoid sequences of
> more
> > >>>> than
> > >>>> two unstressed syllables. With four-syllable names there are
> thus two
> > >>>> options, and while it is my impression that the second syllable
> is the
> > >>>> 'default' (if there is one), the actual assignment appears to
> > >>>> depend on the
> > >>>> shape of the word. I am sure that a previous correspondent is
> > >>>> correct in
> > >>>> suggesting that BoroDIno is prompted by Italian patterns such as
> > >>>> ValenTIno,
> > >>>> just as the pattern CasaNOva is probably responsible for stress
> > >>>> assignments
> > >>>> of the SharaPOva type.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John Dunn.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: Kevin Windle <kevin.windle at ANU.EDU.AU>
> > >>>> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
> > >>>> Date: Mon, 17 May 2010 13:27:33 +1000
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] taking poll on pronunciation
> > >>>>
> > >>>> In my experience as a Brit living in Australia, speakers in the
> UK and
> > >>>> Australia will pronounce BorodINo with exactly the stress
> preferred
> > >>>> in North
> > >>>> America, i.e. primary stress on the third syllable and a weaker
> one
> > >>>> on the
> > >>>> first. Stressing the last syllable seems unnatural to most
> speakers of
> > >>>> English. It may actually render the name unrecognizable to them,
> > >>>> forcing
> > >>>> those who do know Russian to shift the stress to the penult when
> > >>>> speaking
> > >>>> English. Much the same thing happens with Vladivostok.
> > >>>> English-speakers will
> > >>>> generally place the stress on the penult.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Kevin Windle,
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John Dunn
> > >>>> Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies)
> > >>>> University of Glasgow, Scotland
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Address:
> > >>>> Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6
> > >>>> 40137 Bologna
> > >>>> Italy
> > >>>> Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661
> > >>>> e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk
> > >>>> johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> John Dunn
> > >>>> Honorary Research Fellow, SMLC (Slavonic Studies)
> > >>>> University of Glasgow, Scotland
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Address:
> > >>>> Via Carolina Coronedi Berti 6
> > >>>> 40137 Bologna
> > >>>> Italy
> > >>>> Tel.: +39 051/1889 8661
> > >>>> e-mail: J.Dunn at slavonic.arts.gla.ac.uk
> > >>>> johnanthony.dunn at fastwebnet.it
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Richard M. Robin, Ph.D.
> > >> Director Russian Language Program
> > >> The George Washington University
> > >> Washington, DC 20052
> > >> 202-994-7081
> > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >> Russkiy tekst v UTF-8
> > >>
> > >>
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>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Melissa T. Smith, Professor
> Department of Foreign Languages and
> Literatures
> Youngstown State University
> Youngstown, OH 44555
> Tel: (330)941-3462
>
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