Questions for adult learners who became fluent

Fri May 28 19:07:26 UTC 2010

Hi Nola,
I acquired Russian as an adult and was at one time almost fluent in the language - by that I mean that native speakers didn't immediately recognise me as a non-native speaker.  My current research area is second language acquisition, so, with some degree of confidence, I can advise you that intense contact with the language is necessary.  To quote Anna Pavlenko, 'languages are not contagious'.  Their acquisition requires a blend of cognitive and social factors.  To put it bluntly, study and interaction!  Intensive study helps with the categorical aspects such as the dreaded case system and the equally nightmarish aspects.  The acquisition of these factors will follow a route common to all learners in that the nominative and accusative cases are acquired first, for example and the aspects are late acquired.  Spending time in Russia, or Russian speaking communities, may not have much of an impact on the acquisition of grammar but can have a huge impact on the acquisition of social, or variable, aspects of the language.  However, time spent in Russia is not a panacea.  Mere physical presence in the country means nothing in itself.  What's important is intensity of contact across a range of different social situations.  This range is broadened the longer you stay in the country/community and opportunities for interactional exchanges as opposed to transactional increase hugely.Input alone is inadequate; opportunities for output are also essential
I'm always interested when someone is described as speaking a language perfectly.  It reminds me of My Fair Lady when Eliza is at the ball.  Someone refers to her as speaking English so perfectly that she must be a foreigner!  Native speakers' language contains a lot more 'good' variation than  non-natives and this is what often tells them apart. 
My own experience is that I spent 5 years studying the language in university, one year at university in Voronezh (a brilliant, if somewhat scary programme where I had to share a room with Russian speakers) and 5 years living, working, playing, bringing up children in Moscow. Where possible, I stayed away from the expat communities and the majority of my friends were Russians or other Russian speakers.  I also worked in a Russian company.
I will leave you with the 'advice' of a Hungarian I met in Russia .  She stated that there were only two ways to learn a language: libo v kolybele libo v postele. I ya tut ne rodilas'

AM
> Date: Fri, 28 May 2010 09:08:22 -0700
> From: oothappam at EARTHLINK.NET
> Subject: [SEELANGS] Questions for adult learners who became fluent
> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
> 
> Wonderful Seelangers,
> The advice given here about helping children become good at reading Russian is just wonderful. I am continually amazed at the collective wealth of knowledge and experience that is in this group( none of it contributed by me!)
> I have been wondering about speakers of Russian who, like me, started their study in adulthood. How many of them, if any, EVER become fluent? I have met several who feel confident in their skills but who make so many mistakes that I can't depend upon them for help at all.
> A Russian friend remarked to me that he heard the American ambassdor to Russia speak on television recently, and  that his Russian was "absolutely perfect". I do not know if the ambassador learned Russian in childhood or later..I'm thinking about writing to him myself and asking HOW he did this?
> In the meanwhile, I'd like to ask on this marvelous list: 
> Have any of you acquired Russian as adults, and if so, are you fluent?
> And if there are any YES answers to both-HOW DID YOU DO THIS?
> I really want to know!
> I have a youtube channel "Only4Russian". I have nearly 800 subscribers now. Many are Russians who just like the songs with Russian text onthe screen.. But many more are students-serious and/or just playing at it, both types- who write notes to me asking about HOW to learn Russian. It's such a difficult language, with these insane 6 cases, and the aspect stuff with the verbs, it's really quite a shock to an English speaker, I think.
> After 3 years of studying it on my own, I can read and write a little but still find it hard to utter more than a few very hesitant and frightening sentences. After 2 years of Spanish, I was able to become the "bilingual" person at my job, and all hispanic clients were directed to me, and it was  great! But with Russian..wow, it's slow going. I feel absolutely incompetent and have no sense of confidence yet.
> I meet others who studied Russian and consider themselves to be "advanced" but they often can't answer my questions, or sometimes when they do, I find later that their answers are wrong.
> Worse than this..I have used several books by non-Russian authors.The grammar exercises that I have worked on , typed out and sent to my Russian study-buddy turn out to be often horrible. (Many I just copied out of the book, and they were not composed by me or added to at all)My Russian study-buddy(who is well educated) says that the sentences are often absolutely terrible and he asks me to stop using the books! (By the way, the books I am talking about are NOT John Langran's OR the ACTR series. I have never had any trouble with anything from those resources.They are  GREAT.)
> The books I've had trouble with are much older.And it's not that the sentences were antiquated..it's that they are just terrible and composed by people who, apparently, think they know Russian well enough to write books, but don't really.
> So you can see, I am getting even more mystified by this. Has ANYBODY ever appoached Russian language in adulthood and really learned it to the point of fluency? REALLY?
> I am seriously considering eventually writing a small book myself about my own journey into Russian. How I started learning on my own, what helped, what hindered me, the resources that helped me most, the pitfalls, etc. I don't know how much of an audience there might be for it. But I do know that once you're bitten by the Russian bug, it's for life. So either you will just submit and decide to throw your entire self into learning this outrageously difficult language, or give up and hope there will be a lot more translators who will attach subtitles to films and translate books in the future.I would prefer to be able to read and listen myself with understanding.
> So, if any of you can tell me either about someone you know, or from your own experience, if you've learned Russian as an adult and become fluent, HOW you did it, I would LOVE to know. Advice on this  would help me and also help my subscribers who ask me for advice. And hopefully I can include it in  my "book of advice" for  learners of Russian, one day.
> 
> PS: Many, many thanks to all of you who kindly answered my grammar question some time ago. I did not reply at that time-I was too busy reading and trying to understand.
> Nola
> 
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> 
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