R: [SEELANGS] Coredemptrix

Sat Sep 11 19:30:59 UTC 2010

As I've already said, this discussion is somehow off topic and I wouldn't object if the moderator would invite us to go on off topics. But as some SEELANGer have found this interesting and some may even find it useful in defining the meaning of "redemptor", I go on.

Dear Melissa and others:
I am very interested in knowing of belief systems, inside or outside the main branches of Christianity. Personally I am a Roman Catholic atheist, in the sense that I'm personally an atheist, but my background, like the majority of Italians, is Catholic. In my home town (Livorno) we have also a significant number of Jews and Waldensians, but very few on US standards (circa 4% Jews and 1% Waldensians). I have also Orthodox ancestors but they are very far in time.

On the concept of Redemption.
I am not an expert of theology in any sense, but I find that many Christians tend to coalesce the concepts of atonement and redemption. They are indeed strongly connected in mainstream Christianity, but in a wider sense there can be redemption without atonement. Redemption (and its equivalents in Greek and Hebrew kopher and lytron) is etymologically connected with "ransom", strongly connected with atonement. But the Catholic (and I suppose other denominations) definition is "The restoration of man from the bondage of sin to the liberty [of the children of God through the satisfactions and merits of Christ]". I have bracketed the parts that are specifically Christian. If we say "The restoration of sentient beings from the bondage of ignorance to the liberty" the majority of Buddhists would say that this is exactly the objective of the Buddha Dharma.
And the concept of redemption in this meaning is not necessarily connected with an eternal damnation. On a personal note I (and many others) find a God who permits eternal damnation not worthy of praise.
Anyway the concept of redemption, although not etymologically connected to the Christian one, is part of the majority of Buddhist doctrines, that teach that eventually (billions of years) every sentient being will reach the state of buddhahood. A condition superior to that of the creator God. In their conception even Lord Brahma, in the Indian theology the creator of the universe, is subject to ignorance and decay, although immensely less than humans. And even Lord Brahma will be saved by the Buddha Dharma by a Buddha, a condition that every sentient being will eventually attain. By a process that can be defined as "The restoration of sentient beings from the bondage of ignorance to the liberty", a definition very close to the mainstream Christian definition. Although the means are very different.

This is not an apology of Buddhism (I'm not a Buddhist). It's to say that while the concept of atonement is specifically Christian (possibly Judeo-Christian), the concept of redemption (not etymologically) is more widespread in belief systems.

Sincerely,

Luciano Di Cocco  

> -----Messaggio originale-----
> Da: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] Per conto di Melissa Smith
> Inviato: sabato 11 settembre 2010 19:52
> A: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
> Oggetto: Re: [SEELANGS] Coredemptrix
> 
> Dear Luciano and others:
> 
> Since you introduce a broader context for the discussion of belief
> systems, I offer my own excursus on this topic. My historical dating is
> rather approximate, but there is ample opportunity for fact-checking on
> the web.
> 
> I and at least one other Slavist of my acquaintance are members of the
> Unitarian-Universalist church which extends back at least to Michael
> Servetus, who wrote a tract on "The Errors of the Trinity," and was
> burned at the stake for his troubles. The "Bohemian Brethren" and a
> 16th(?) century King Sigismund were among historical exemplars of this
> belief.
> 
> In the Americas, one branch of Unitarianism was introduced by the
> British Scientist, Joseph Priestly. The northern branch arose as a
> reaction against "the Great Awakening," an emotional, evangelical
> movement in the late 18th-early 19th century, against which the more
> rationally-inclined Protestants offered their own alternative visions
> of Christianity. Among early proponents of this faith were our second
> president, John Adams and many of the New England
> Transcendentalists,such as Ralph Waldo Emerson. Thomas Jefferson,
> although not professing to be a Unitarian himself, predicted that, by
> the end of the 19th century, Unitarianism would be the predominant
> faith of the USA.
> 
> We should not, of course, be surprised that the "founding fathers'"
> influence in such matters was more limited than Jefferson supposed,
> although the Judaeo-Christian tradition that spawned this denomination
> remains dominant and multifarious. In the 1960's the Unitarians merged
> with the Universalist denomination.
> 
> Since neither denomination has a catechism or other form of dogma, only
> the sketchiest generalizations can be made. Relevant to the current
> discussion is the general acceptance of Christ as a great religious
> TEACHER, but not a divinity (hence, "Unitarian" as opposed to
> "Trinitarian"). I know less about Universalism, but one of its
> founders, Hosea Ballou reject the notion of Hell altogether and viewed
> salvation after death as universal.
> 
> I personally reject the label "atheist," although etymologically
> "a-theos," would imply the rejection of ANY divine persona, whether it
> be depicted in a toga and sandals or sporting a long, white beard. From
> the Universalist perspective, the absence of eternal damnation would
> seem to obviate a "redeemer," or "coredemptrix." I accept such
> terminology, however, from a linguistic perspective, and therefore
> welcome the discussion and justification of usage that is presented on
> this listserv. I would suggest, moreover, that in these days of
> proposed Qu'ran burnings, such discussion assumes even greater
> relevance. The "belief system" of our profession is in continual
> evolution.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Melissa Smith

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