Is it of much use?

Thu Mar 8 17:31:47 UTC 2012

I don't agree with  Anne that it seems difficult to regard 'I have
read' as a present tense.
For example in Russian phrase "я купил" seems to be clear past. But
giving it some context turns it into perfect in present: "ты купил
новый компьютер?" "да купил". Rephrasing it makes that clearer to
perfect: "у тебя куплен новый компьютер?" "да куплен". Furthering
makes it English in Russian words: "имеешь ты купленным какой-нибудь
компьютер?" "да имею".

Btw, very intersting, rephrasing 'I've already seen the film' to
'it's already seen by me' make it clear or more present. From another
hand, is this operation valid in the sense of retaing the original
meaning.

Konstantin

2012/3/8, anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at hotmail.com>:
> I initially thought they would automatically come under the perfect aspect.
> However, they draw from both the perfect and continuous/progressive aspects.
>  As they don't add another aspect i  think the triad or tri-partitie system
> may still work with the caveat that bi-aspectuality (?) is possible.
>
> Is it just me, or are things becoming more complicated?
> AM
>
>
>> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 10:38:37 -0500
>> From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Is it of much use?
>> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
>>
>> "I have been reading" and "I had been reading" are totally missing and
>> do not have pigeon holes in this triad system it seems.
>>
>> Alina
>>
>> On Mar 8, 2012, at 6:41 AM, anne marie devlin wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Konstantin (+ John),
>> > the proposed model is basically a separation of tense and aspect.
>> > The tense refers to the basic times when an action/state happens i.e
>> > past present and future and the aspects refer to what I always refer
>> > to as additional information.
>> > An example could be the verb to read.
>> >
>> > In the present tense there are 3 aspects: I read, I am reading and I
>> > have read. I read is the simple and refers to habitual use. I am
>> > reading is continuous/progressive which is now or temporary and the
>> > really difficult is the perfect aspect which can refer to result or
>> > experience. this can also be developed to I have been reading which
>> > can often answer the question 'how long?'
>> >
>> > In the past this is realised as I read (red), I was reading and I
>> > had read with the aspectual meaning being comparative.
>> >
>> > I the future it would be I will read, I will be reading and I will
>> > have read.
>> >
>> > I think it's a useful model and I often present it as tense + extra
>> > information.
>> >
>> > Regards
>> > AM
>> >
>> >
>> >> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 11:17:26 +0000
>> >> From: John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK
>> >> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Is it of much use?
>> >> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
>> >>
>> >> Konstantin,
>> >>
>> >> It might be helpful if you could illustrate this scheme using a
>> >> real verb. Though I am old enough to have been given a reasonably
>> >> formal grounding in English grammar at school, one part of the
>> >> system that was never properly explained to us was the tense system
>> >> of the verb, perhaps because the model that underlay the grammar
>> >> that we were taught was more appropriate for Latin than for
>> >> English. I mention this because one consequence of my ignorance is
>> >> that whenever I come across an account of the English tense system
>> >> intended for foreign learners, I find the terminology rather
>> >> mystifying and often at odds with my own intuitive understanding.
>> >>
>> >> John Dunn.
>> >>
>> >> ________________________________________
>> >> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures
>> >> list [SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of Goloviznin Konstantin
>> >> [kottcoos at GMAIL.COM
>> >> ]
>> >> Sent: 08 March 2012 11:18
>> >> To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
>> >> Subject: [SEELANGS] Is it of much use?
>> >>
>> >> Hello Seelangers,
>> >>
>> >> I think this should be of some interest or even more... Some linguist
>> >> (= teacher of English from Saint-Petersburg) has proposed a system of
>> >> English tenses. Instead of these he uses three times (=Past, Present,
>> >> Future) and three + 1 types of actions: one-time actions (=simple
>> >> tenses), processes or long-time actions (=progerssive ), results (=
>> >> perfects) + long-time results (= progressive perfects). That is, in
>> >> every of Past, Present, Future you can have three + 1 type of
>> >> actions.
>> >>
>> >> I see it real simpification in understanding what English tenses
>> >> really are. From another hand this classifier is universal because of
>> >> applicable to any language (for Russian as example).
>> >>
>> >> And from the third hand, I consider a methodic having this classifier
>> >> in as a real hit, but others see it a miss.
>> >>
>> >> Looking forward to your posts, Konstantin.
>> >>
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>>
>> Alina Israeli
>> Associate Professor of Russian
>> LFS, American University
>> 4400 Massachusetts Ave.
>> Washington DC 20016
>> (202) 885-2387 fax (202) 885-1076
>> aisrael at american.edu
>>
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