SEELANGS Digest - 8 Mar 2012 - Special issue (#2012-71)

Thu Mar 8 19:49:23 UTC 2012

Hello, Konstantin--

I'm writing in response to your comment below about 'I have read' as a present tense.  I hope I've understood the intent of your question and that my response is descriptively adequate.

You probably know that for English native speakers, the 'present' distinction of the 'present perfect form (I have seen the film. (implied:  already)'' or 'I have studied English/have been studying English for three years.') is important in our speech.  The passive 'it's already seen by me' not only "sounds wrong", but it demonstrates a mismatch between 'is' and the associated adverb 'already' (here I'm speaking about English usage relying on verbs and not adverbs as parts of predicates). Think of a statement like "I haven't seen that movie already."  You can sense the mismatch:  negatives and questions are connected with the adverb 'yet' in English (again, for standardized English usage).  Another point of evidence can be taken from one kind of translation (of the two possible) of the 'present perfect' from Russian into English (for events that are still true or ongoing):  Я 2 года занимаюсь диссертацией/Ja dva goda zanimajus' dissertatsijei.

Very flexibly, Russian allows for two translations for 'present perfect':  Я уже видел этот фильм/Ja uzhe videl etot fil'm (semelfactive event) vs. Я 2 года занимаюсь диссертацией/Ja dva goda zanimajus' dissertatsijei. (marking the amount of time of the occurrence, which encapsulates it into a kind of semelfactive instance).

Without the 'present' idea and the 'perfective' result expressed by 'present perfect', the listener doesn't get the sense of the relevance.

Just for more fun, here's a question I often pose to my students about aspect (both Russian speakers of English and English speakers of Russian):

Which of the following questions is most likely to lead to an invitation from the "asker"?:
Have you had breakfast?
Did you have breakfast?

Aimee Roebuck-Johnson
English/Russian Language Instructor
TechTrans International, Inc.
NASA/Johnson Space Center
2101 NASA Parkway
Mail code AH3
Houston, Texas  77058
desk:  281/483-0774
fax:  281/483-4050

Date:    Thu, 8 Mar 2012 23:31:47 +0600
From:    Goloviznin Konstantin <kottcoos at GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Is it of much use?

I don't agree with  Anne that it seems difficult to regard 'I have
read' as a present tense.
For example in Russian phrase "я купил" seems to be clear past. But
giving it some context turns it into perfect in present: "ты купил
новый компьютер?" "да купил". Rephrasing it makes that clearer to
perfect: "у тебя куплен новый компьютер?" "да куплен". Furthering
makes it English in Russian words: "имеешь ты купленным какой-нибудь
компьютер?" "да имею".

Btw, very intersting, rephrasing 'I've already seen the film' to
'it's already seen by me' make it clear or more present. From another
hand, is this operation valid in the sense of retaing the original
meaning.

Konstantin

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