SEELANGS Digest - 20 Mar 2012 - Special issue (#2012-94)
Yokoyama, Olga
olga at HUMNET.UCLA.EDU
Wed Mar 21 02:11:09 UTC 2012
This is a comment to two items: Eliot Borenstein's proposal to change the platform, and the Pussy Riot thread.
The Borenstein proposal is very attractive. It has been at least a decade since I noted exactly the kind of deterioration Prof. Borenstein writes about, and my reaction has been similar to his. In the last year or so, the thought of unsubscribing to SEELANGS occurred to me more than once. I am not internet media savvy, but something along the lines Prof. Borenstein has suggested would be welcome.
Regarding the Pussy Riot thread (as well as, more generally, some of the recently proliferated Russian blogs on other topics), the following quote from Berdyaev 1983 seems strikingly appropriate (let me transliterate some of it here, since I am not sure if my Cyrillic would be SEELANGS compatible):
"Trudnost' obshcheniia s russkimi sovsem inaia, chem trudnost' obshcheniia s frantsuzami. [...] U russkikh net uslovnostei, net distantsii, est' potrebnost' chasto vidat' liudei, s kotorymi u nikh net dazhe osobenno blizkikh otnoshenii, vyvorachivat' dushu, vvergat'sia v chuzhuiu zhizn' i vvergat' v svoiu zhizn', vesti beskonechnye spory ob ideinykh voprosakh. [...] V russkoi srede [...] ia chasto oshchushchal podpol'nye toki, kotorykh v takoi forme ia ne zamechal v zapadnoi srede. Russkie ochen' legko zadevaiut lichnost' drugogo cheloveka, govoriat veshchi obidnye [...]. V russkom myshlenii nravstvennyi moment preobladaet nad momentum chisto intellektual'nym. [...] Glavnoe zhe kachestvo russkogo obshcheniia, chto v nem legche nachinat' govorit' o glavnom i sushchestvennom. (Sobranie sochinenii, vol. 1, 440-441)
Olga T. Yokoyama
Professor
Department of Applied Linguistics
University of California, Los Angeles
Tel. (310) 825-7694
Fax (310) 206-4118
http://www.appling.ucla.edu
-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu] On Behalf Of SEELANGS automatic digest system
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:56 PM
To: SEELANGS at bama.ua.edu
Subject: SEELANGS Digest - 20 Mar 2012 - Special issue (#2012-94)
There are 7 messages totaling 1146 lines in this issue.
Topics in this special issue:
1. Question (Apple Languages School)
2. tennis stress
3. Russian Textbook for High School
4. SEELANGS, R.I.P.? (4)
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:13:23 -0400
From: Alexander Prokhorov <axprok at WM.EDU>
Subject: Question (Apple Languages School)
One of my students plans to study Russian at Apple Languages School in
St. Petersburg, Russia.
http://www.applelanguages.com/ajaxstuff/results.php?dict=en&site=apple&language=5&location=391&level=10&course=2834&start=201219&span=16¤cy=2
Do you know anything about this school? Did anybody's students take
Russian at this school?
Any feedback is welcome.
Thank you!
--
Alexander Prokhorov, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Russian
Russian Section Coordinator
College of William and Mary
http://www.wm.edu/as/modernlanguages/russian
http://www.wm.edu/as/globalstudies/russianpostsov
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 13:27:29 -0700
From: John Dingley <jdingley43 at GMAIL.COM>
Subject: tennis stress
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%90%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%BE,_%D0%92%D0%B8%D0%BA%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%A4%D1%91%D0%B4%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%BD%D0%B0
--
http://members.shaw.ca/johndingley/home.html
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:42:21 -0400
From: Jane Shuffelton <janeshuffelton at GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Russian Textbook for High School
I didn't see the question about levels 3 and 4, but Face to Face is part
of a four level series, all with workbooks and videos. I used all four
levels with success at Brighton High School.
Jane Shuffelton
On Tue, Mar 20, 2012 at 3:42 PM, Francoise Rosset <frosset at wheatonma.edu>wrote:
> Dear everyone:
>
> I second Jane Shuffelton and others who argue that a textbook should be
> chosen BECAUSE it was designed for HS and BECAUSE it has all those
> ancillary items (pics, culture, games etc.) that HSers expect.
>
> I did teach HS language classes for one year, at Punahou in Honolulu, and
> those students, courses and expectations were simply utterly different from
> the ones I had at the University of Hawai'i. I taught three different
> languages (sic) at Punahou and two of them at UH, and the differences held
> accross the board.
>
> The one advantage to using a textbook designed for college is that if you
> organize things well, your students may end up going to a college that uses
> the same textbook, and their level will then be obvious.
>
> I cannot answer the question about HS 3 and 4, as I only taught Russian 1.
> It is an important question, and I am cheered to no end by the fact that
> HSs are actually teaching Russian 3 and 4 !!!
>
> -FR
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, 20 Mar 2012 11:54:24 -0400
> Jane Shuffelton <janeshuffelton at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
>> HS Russian language teachers,
>>
>> When I used Face to Face I found that it had plenty of grammar practice
>> and
>> was structured to develop competency in grammar. Of course teachers who
>> felt there should be more grammar practice could develop their own
>> materials.. But I think the essential feature of Face to Face that has
>> relevance for a high school program is the format, much closer to
>> textbooks they would have in other languages (pictures, cultural materials
>> that would appeal to pre-college students.)
>>
>> I actually found myself developing more communicative activities when I
>> used the textbook, especially in reference to re-tooling my program around
>> the national Standards for Foreign Language Learning K-12.
>>
>> Jane Shuffelton
>> Brighton High School (retired)
>>
>>
> Francoise Rosset, Associate Professor
> Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
> Wheaton College
> Norton, Massachusetts 02766
> Office: (508) 285-3696
> FAX: (508) 286-3640
>
>
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:52:41 -0400
From: Eliot Borenstein <eb7 at NYU.EDU>
Subject: SEELANGS, R.I.P.?
Dear Comrades in Slavdom,
The current exchange of screeds about Pussy Riot has finally crystalized something for me: SEELANGS, in its current incarnation, has outlived its usefulness.
When it began in the 1990s, it was a fairly innovative, unprecedented means for Slavists to communicate with each other. In the nearly two decades that I have been on SEELANGS (may Veles have mercy on me!), I've observed a fairly predictable climate pattern for this list. For weeks or even months at time, it will be used to exchange information about what might be called "important trivia": details about translations, textbooks, online resources, and breaking news about the fall of the yers. Then something vaguely political, ideological, or controversial comes up, the trolls come out of hiding, and flame wars ensue. The the fires are put out, and we're back to discussing stress patterns and pedagogy.
But as the Internet has evolved, much of what has always been annoying about SEELANGS has become almost unbearable. Because SEELANGS, as an unmoderated list, simply should no longer exist.
I submit that the age of mass-subscriber, unmoderated lists has long since passed. Many of us are also on the various H-NET lists (particularly H-RUSSIA), and those are largely non-intrusive: they amount to announcements, research queries, and the like. While complaining about SEELANGS is a common pastime among many Slavists I know, H-RUSSIA doesn't usually excite as much animus.
The solution is not moderation (at least, not in the administrative sense of the word). The solution is moving to an entirely different platform.
Consider this: in the best of times, most of the information exchange on SEELANGS is of an interest to only a small subset of its subscribers. But we stay on, because we don't want to miss something unpredictably relevant. Eventually a political topic emerges, and, for a week or so, the list degenerates into competitive victimology. And many of us get annoyed that our "inboxes are being clogged up" by this stuff.
The problem here is that the material is irrelevant, but not irrelevant enough. Personally, I read this material with a morbid fascination, and then berate myself for losing time on it. And I suspect I'm not alone. But think how different the Pussy Riot discussion would have felt if it had been a thread on a blog. On a listserv, it feels like spam. On a blog, it's just another thread.
A blog would rid us of the many minor irritations that listserv technology inflicts, to wit:
1) Endlessly embedded message threats (really annoying on a portable device).
2) Cyrillic encoding problems (messages that turn into a series of question marks)
3) Painfully embarrassing misaddressed messages (replying to the list instead of the to the post's author)
The objection might be raised that people are unlikely to visit the blog, and will miss valuable information. This is easily addressed by retaining the skeleton of the SEELANGS list and linking it to the blog. The blog could, by default, send out daily or weekly summaries of the topics on which there have been postings (not unlike the table of contents in the "digest" setting of the list).
Social media would be an even better solution, but I don't think the time has come yet. I suspect there is a significant portion of SEELANGERS who hate Facebook, and would refuse to join (I share their feeling--I only joined Facebook so as not to feel like Grandpa Simpson). Google+ looks to be about as popular as the Microsoft Zune, and if there is no critical mass, there is no point.
I send this out for consideration--I don't really know how such a thing would be decided or approved. I'm planning in the not-too-distant future to announce what I hope will be a vibrant and useful web presence for NYU's new Jordan Family Center for the Advanced Study of Russia, but this would obviously not be an appropriate home for an endeavor like SEELANGS. Somehow, the AATSEEL membership should consider the possible options. But in any case, I really think it's time to put this creaky old technology to rest.
Eliot Borenstein, Acting Chair
Collegiate Professor
Professor, Russian & Slavic Studies
Provostial Fellow
New York University
19 University Place, Room 210
New York, NY 10003
(212) 998-8676 (office)
212-995-4163 (fax)
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 21:22:04 +0000
From: Robert Chandler <kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM>
Subject: Re: SEELANGS, R.I.P.?
Dear Eliot Borenstein and all,
I am deeply grateful for the existence of SEELANGS. It has been an enormous help to me in many, many ways.
Best Wishes,
Robert
> Dear Comrades in Slavdom,
>
> The current exchange of screeds about Pussy Riot has finally crystalized something for me: SEELANGS, in its current incarnation, has outlived its usefulness.
>
> When it began in the 1990s, it was a fairly innovative, unprecedented means for Slavists to communicate with each other. In the nearly two decades that I have been on SEELANGS (may Veles have mercy on me!), I've observed a fairly predictable climate pattern for this list. For weeks or even months at time, it will be used to exchange information about what might be called "important trivia": details about translations, textbooks, online resources, and breaking news about the fall of the yers. Then something vaguely political, ideological, or controversial comes up, the trolls come out of hiding, and flame wars ensue. The the fires are put out, and we're back to discussing stress patterns and pedagogy.
>
> But as the Internet has evolved, much of what has always been annoying about SEELANGS has become almost unbearable. Because SEELANGS, as an unmoderated list, simply should no longer exist.
>
> I submit that the age of mass-subscriber, unmoderated lists has long since passed. Many of us are also on the various H-NET lists (particularly H-RUSSIA), and those are largely non-intrusive: they amount to announcements, research queries, and the like. While complaining about SEELANGS is a common pastime among many Slavists I know, H-RUSSIA doesn't usually excite as much animus.
>
> The solution is not moderation (at least, not in the administrative sense of the word). The solution is moving to an entirely different platform.
>
> Consider this: in the best of times, most of the information exchange on SEELANGS is of an interest to only a small subset of its subscribers. But we stay on, because we don't want to miss something unpredictably relevant. Eventually a political topic emerges, and, for a week or so, the list degenerates into competitive victimology. And many of us get annoyed that our "inboxes are being clogged up" by this stuff.
>
> The problem here is that the material is irrelevant, but not irrelevant enough. Personally, I read this material with a morbid fascination, and then berate myself for losing time on it. And I suspect I'm not alone. But think how different the Pussy Riot discussion would have felt if it had been a thread on a blog. On a listserv, it feels like spam. On a blog, it's just another thread.
>
> A blog would rid us of the many minor irritations that listserv technology inflicts, to wit:
>
> 1) Endlessly embedded message threats (really annoying on a portable device).
>
> 2) Cyrillic encoding problems (messages that turn into a series of question marks)
>
> 3) Painfully embarrassing misaddressed messages (replying to the list instead of the to the post's author)
>
> The objection might be raised that people are unlikely to visit the blog, and will miss valuable information. This is easily addressed by retaining the skeleton of the SEELANGS list and linking it to the blog. The blog could, by default, send out daily or weekly summaries of the topics on which there have been postings (not unlike the table of contents in the "digest" setting of the list).
>
> Social media would be an even better solution, but I don't think the time has come yet. I suspect there is a significant portion of SEELANGERS who hate Facebook, and would refuse to join (I share their feeling--I only joined Facebook so as not to feel like Grandpa Simpson). Google+ looks to be about as popular as the Microsoft Zune, and if there is no critical mass, there is no point.
>
> I send this out for consideration--I don't really know how such a thing would be decided or approved. I'm planning in the not-too-distant future to announce what I hope will be a vibrant and useful web presence for NYU's new Jordan Family Center for the Advanced Study of Russia, but this would obviously not be an appropriate home for an endeavor like SEELANGS. Somehow, the AATSEEL membership should consider the possible options. But in any case, I really think it's time to put this creaky old technology to rest.
>
>
>
> Eliot Borenstein, Acting Chair
> Collegiate Professor
> Professor, Russian & Slavic Studies
> Provostial Fellow
> New York University
> 19 University Place, Room 210
> New York, NY 10003
> (212) 998-8676 (office)
> 212-995-4163 (fax)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 23:26:00 +0100
From: Jan Zielinski <zielinski at GMX.CH>
Subject: Re: SEELANGS, R.I.P.?
I totally agree with Robert. For any unwanted messages there is always a
waste bin. The balance is evidently positive.
Jan Zielinski
Berne
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 16:54:09 -0600
From: Alexandra Popoff <shura at SASKTEL.NET>
Subject: Re: SEELANGS, R.I.P.?
I want to thank Prof. Eliot Borenstein for sharing useful information
and discussing some alternatives to SEELANGS.
Alexandra Popoff
Eliot Borenstein wrote:
> Dear Comrades in Slavdom,
>
> The current exchange of screeds about Pussy Riot has finally
> crystalized something for me: SEELANGS, in its current incarnation,
> has outlived its usefulness.
>
> When it began in the 1990s, it was a fairly innovative, unprecedented
> means for Slavists to communicate with each other. In the nearly two
> decades that I have been on SEELANGS (may Veles have mercy on me!),
> I've observed a fairly predictable climate pattern for this list. For
> weeks or even months at time, it will be used to exchange information
> about what might be called "important trivia": details about
> translations, textbooks, online resources, and breaking news about the
> fall of the yers. Then something vaguely political, ideological, or
> controversial comes up, the trolls come out of hiding, and flame wars
> ensue. The the fires are put out, and we're back to discussing stress
> patterns and pedagogy.
>
> But as the Internet has evolved, much of what has always been annoying
> about SEELANGS has become almost unbearable. Because SEELANGS, as an
> unmoderated list, simply should no longer exist.
>
> I submit that the age of mass-subscriber, unmoderated lists has long
> since passed. Many of us are also on the various H-NET lists
> (particularly H-RUSSIA), and those are largely non-intrusive: they
> amount to announcements, research queries, and the like. While
> complaining about SEELANGS is a common pastime among many Slavists I
> know, H-RUSSIA doesn't usually excite as much animus.
>
> The solution is not moderation (at least, not in the administrative
> sense of the word). The solution is moving to an entirely different
> platform.
>
> Consider this: in the best of times, most of the information exchange
> on SEELANGS is of an interest to only a small subset of its
> subscribers. But we stay on, because we don't want to miss something
> unpredictably relevant. Eventually a political topic emerges, and,
> for a week or so, the list degenerates into competitive victimology.
> And many of us get annoyed that our "inboxes are being clogged up" by
> this stuff.
>
> The problem here is that the material is irrelevant, but not
> irrelevant enough. Personally, I read this material with a morbid
> fascination, and then berate myself for losing time on it. And I
> suspect I'm not alone. But think how different the Pussy Riot
> discussion would have felt if it had been a thread on a blog. On a
> listserv, it feels like spam. On a blog, it's just another thread.
>
> A blog would rid us of the many minor irritations that listserv
> technology inflicts, to wit:
>
> 1) Endlessly embedded message threats (really annoying on a portable
> device).
>
> 2) Cyrillic encoding problems (messages that turn into a series of
> question marks)
>
> 3) Painfully embarrassing misaddressed messages (replying to the list
> instead of the to the post's author)
>
> The objection might be raised that people are unlikely to visit the
> blog, and will miss valuable information. This is easily addressed by
> retaining the skeleton of the SEELANGS list and linking it to the
> blog. The blog could, by default, send out daily or weekly summaries
> of the topics on which there have been postings (not unlike the table
> of contents in the "digest" setting of the list).
>
> Social media would be an even better solution, but I don't think the
> time has come yet. I suspect there is a significant portion of
> SEELANGERS who hate Facebook, and would refuse to join (I share their
> feeling--I only joined Facebook so as not to feel like Grandpa
> Simpson). Google+ looks to be about as popular as the Microsoft Zune,
> and if there is no critical mass, there is no point.
>
> I send this out for consideration--I don't really know how such a
> thing would be decided or approved. I'm planning in the
> not-too-distant future to announce what I hope will be a vibrant and
> useful web presence for NYU's new Jordan Family Center for the
> Advanced Study of Russia, but this would obviously not be an
> appropriate home for an endeavor like SEELANGS. Somehow, the AATSEEL
> membership should consider the possible options. But in any case, I
> really think it's time to put this creaky old technology to rest.
>
>
>
> Eliot Borenstein, Acting Chair
> Collegiate Professor
> Professor, Russian & Slavic Studies
> Provostial Fellow
> New York University
> 19 University Place, Room 210
> New York, NY 10003
> (212) 998-8676 (office)
> 212-995-4163 (fax)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.home.comcast.net/
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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End of SEELANGS Digest - 20 Mar 2012 - Special issue (#2012-94)
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