Analogs of Vysotsky: my replies

Sun Feb 9 16:25:46 UTC 2014

This is a very interesting discussion.  Here are a few considerations I'd like to add:

1. In regard to Dylan having an limited impact, primarily on the American intelligentsia, I respectfully disagree.  Dylan's impact on mainstream American and British pop from the sixties through at least the nineties is incalculable, both in terms of his style of elliptical songwriting, genre mixing and vocal phrasing.  The influence is palpable on much of Lennon's late work with the Beatles, in the Rolling Stones' Beggar Banquet (especially Jagger's vocals!), Jimi Hendrix even beyond the cover of "All Along the Watchtower", and in the compositional structures (and, again, vocal phrasing) of Becker and Fagen's songs for Steely Dan. In nineties and aughts, there are clear echoes in the recordings of artists as dissimilar as Axel Rose, Cat Power and Regina Spektor.  Johnny Cash himself admitted that he mined some of Dylan's public persona and folkloric style for his own music. I think Dylan's lasting impact on contemporary anglophone musical culture is actually no less significant than Vysotsky's on its Russian counterpart.

2. About Dylan's untutored and crude style of singing. Here again is an area in which his and Vysotsky's creative paths might be seen as running parallel to each other. Over a periods of several years, both singers learned how to channel the guttural  quality of their voices into highly theatricalized styles of singing, evident in songs such as Dylan's "Tangled Up in Blue" and Vysotsky's "Dialog u televizora." Dylan himself wrote that a turning point for his understanding of how to compensate the natural flaws of his voice by (oddly) maximizing them in a particular way was when he heard Lotte Lenya perform in the Broadway version of Threepenny Opera. Lenya actually had a pretty dreadful voice, but she also had a great actor's skills in creating a highly dramatic narrative out of every cluster of notes. For me, much of Vysotsky's singing is powerful because of a highly specific thespian quality.

Alex Mihailovic

From: Sentinel76 Astrakhan <thysentinel at HOTMAIL.COM<mailto:thysentinel at HOTMAIL.COM>>
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Date: Sunday, February 9, 2014 10:26 AM
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Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Analogs of Vysotsky: my replies

Hello all,

I didn't realize we are limited to three posts per day, so I will try to answer everybody here in one letter.

1.  I don't think Cobain fits here at all.  He was undeniably charismatic, had some of what I refer to as "the dark vibe" that Vysotsky possessed in abundance, but spoke for a relatively small segment of the society.  Plus his poetic achievements are dubious at best, and his longevity was rather brief:  as a cultural phenomenon, he barely outlived grunge genre as a whole.

2.  Same with both Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie.  Their impact was strong but very short-lived.  Nowdays they are all but gone from the American public discourse.  Although they certainly had some powerful songs:  Seeger's "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy" was great and very much in Vysotsky's vein.  Any others?

3.

> For my money, Paul Simon and Bob Dylan rose to that level (though Dylan
couldn't sing a lick); I'll put Paul Simon's genius, with or without
Garfunkel, up against anyone (some listeners outside the New York area
may not see it). And his songs had a substantial, meaty content that you
don't often get in pop music.

Paul Simon definitely had the talent and the longevity.  But was his impact strong enough?  Was his peak high enough?  Did he have any of the "dark vibe"?  I am mostly familiar with his S&G stuff and I saw him live in 1999 and remember his song "Can't Run But" having some social criticism, but I certainly did not get the sense of power coming from him.  If anything, he was miles better than Dylan, who opened for him and looked like a mannequin.

One thing I did not get from him is the "substantial" and "meety".  Can you provide some examples?

Dylan I already commented on.  His appeal, even in his prime, was limited to the American "intelligentsia."

4.  One aspect of Vysotsky's phenomena is that his popularity doesn't seem to wane.  He is consistently in the Top Five in downloadables / plays at Yandex Music, and that's a good indicator of his popularity with the youth.  I don't think Dylan or Marley currently enjoy that level of success.

5.
> Waits doesn't really belong here, he has never been the voice of a generation, he's a California jazz musician turned
> experimental rocker and folky who writes songs about the down-and-outs and the weirdos. Waits songs are theatrical, they
> belong on the stage (and have made their way there once or twice) although they often do have recourse to old folk habits.

Let's apply this to Vysotsky.  "Writes songs about the down-and-outs and the weirdos"?  Check.  "Theatrical songs that belong on stage"?  Check.  AAMOF, this and the voice is what makes Waits a very fitting analog of Vysotsky.  About a fifth of his songs Vysotsky wrote for theater, in the range between war-themed to "Alice in Wonderland."  "Recourse to old folk habits"?  Check.  But you are right, he was never the voice of a generation or a major cultural force.

Are there any songs that would be close to Vysotsky?  I have only heard some random songs like "Yesterday's Here," "Singapore," etc.

6.
> If you're looking at sheer impact Marley needs to go a lot higher on that list, he has very disjointed followings but the number
> of people who listen to his music and the impact it has had on grassroots politics, etc. is surprisingly enormous from a man
> who died so young.

Marley died at 36.  His peak lasted about seven years.  His longevity (btw, I'm talking about longevity of impact, not longevity of career) and impact are certainly very high.  He fits the political, spiritual, and "dark vibe" angles of Vysotsky.
He can certainly overtake Cohen in terms of impact and being a cultural icon, but not in terms of longevity:  Cohen is still very relevant and still sells out stadiums.  Marley can probably overtake Cash in impact and possibly as the "icon"(although I believe Cash was always huge in the South), but definitely not Springsteen.

7.
> As a poet Cohen matches but the music isn't comparable and Cohen was always poet first, musician second.

But you've just described Vysotsky!  Or did you mean it the other way around?

> For my money, Marley, Dylan and Lennon really strike me as probably the best choices.

Seriously, no Cash?  He had the darkest vibe of them all, and to me it's a key ingredient in Vysotsky's legacy.  It would also be helpful to know if any of them exhibited the "Гибельный восторг" of Vysotsky.

8.
> Part of Vysotsky’s fame came from the fact that he was he was also an incredible actor of stage and screen – including giving one
> of the most internationally renowned performances of Hamlet of his generation – if not the 20th century.

Cash and Elvis were both actors.  Jon Bon Jovi is an actor.  Acting alone doesn't necessarily add to one's legacy and cultural status.  In fact, Vysotsky's two signature roles -- Zheglov and Don Juan -- did not happen until his dying days.

> I do think that it is apples and oranges – but if you are trying to describe an orange to someone who has never seen one, you

> have be creative.

Very well versed :).

9.
> Let's not forget Lennon's (in)famous quote about the Beatles being "more popular than Jesus now." (it was true, but many didn't want to hear it)

Lennon was bigger than Jesus with the Beatles.  But in the 70s he seemed a little washed up, although, oddly enough, this is when his societal stands became much stronger.  But, again, I need to listen more to his solo stuff.  What I've heard ("Imagine," "Believe") lacked in power, somewhat.

10. I'd love for this discussion to continue.  But if, for whatever reason, you (or the moderator) don't want to continue it here, let's do this at

www.facebook.com/vysotskyinenglish

Thank you all for your contribution!

Vadim

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