Analogs of Vysotsky: my replies

Mon Feb 10 07:12:18 UTC 2014

Vadim, 

I think, to include Vysotsky's acting next to Jon Bon Jovi's does a grave
disservice to the former (to adopt your own phrasing J) 

I won't push this as we seem mostly focused on music here, but part of the
original discussion was how ingrained Vystotsky is in the national
consciousness. His acting, in my opinion, definitely contributed to that and
contributes to what makes him wholly unique - an orange that we are
comparing to our English-speaking apples: 

Bon Jovi has done mostly bit parts and small roles - the type of things that
you can do when you are not really an actor but someone whose name can land
you on screen. Elvis, I would argue, was also not an actor. Like The
Monkeys, he did cross genres, but he did so primarily in relation to his
music. Elvis' films, like The Monkeys' TV shows, were music videos before
there were music videos.

Vysotsky is unique in that his acting actually contributed to the art of
acting. He acted substantive roles in which he could offer real social
commentary and in which he actually had stretch his character and become
someone new. It is for this reason that we still distantly remember him for
his acting - but most of us will have to look up Bon Jovi on IMBD to recall
what, exactly, he actually appeared in. 

So, I would argue, in terms of his lasting fame, his acting should be
considered. Then again, I hold a degree in theatre, so I am partial. J 

PS - in terms of a modern example of an English-speaking singer who managed
to turn actor and can actually hold his own on screen, Justin Timberlake
come to mind. His socially-relevant role in Alpha Dog was very well
portrayed and something of a stretch for him - but then, we can't really
compare Timberlake to Vysotsky either: 

Josh Wilson
Assistant Director
The School of Russian and Asian Studies
Editor in Chief
Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
SRAS.org 
jwilson at sras.org

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Sentinel76 Astrakhan
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 7:27 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Analogs of Vysotsky: my replies

Hello all,

I didn't realize we are limited to three posts per day, so I will try to
answer everybody here in one letter.

1.  I don't think Cobain fits here at all.  He was undeniably charismatic,
had some of what I refer to as "the dark vibe" that Vysotsky possessed in
abundance, but spoke for a relatively small segment of the society.  Plus
his poetic achievements are dubious at best, and his longevity was rather
brief:  as a cultural phenomenon, he barely outlived grunge genre as a
whole.

2.  Same with both Pete Seeger and Woody Guthrie.  Their impact was strong
but very short-lived.  Nowdays they are all but gone from the American
public discourse.  Although they certainly had some powerful songs:
Seeger's "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy" was great and very much in Vysotsky's
vein.  Any others?

3.  

> For my money, Paul Simon and Bob Dylan rose to that level (though Dylan 
couldn't sing a lick); I'll put Paul Simon's genius, with or without 
Garfunkel, up against anyone (some listeners outside the New York area 
may not see it). And his songs had a substantial, meaty content that you 
don't often get in pop music.

Paul Simon definitely had the talent and the longevity.  But was his impact
strong enough?  Was his peak high enough?  Did he have any of the "dark
vibe"?  I am mostly familiar with his S&G stuff and I saw him live in 1999
and remember his song "Can't Run But" having some social criticism, but I
certainly did not get the sense of power coming from him.  If anything, he
was miles better than Dylan, who opened for him and looked like a mannequin.

One thing I did not get from him is the "substantial" and "meety".  Can you
provide some examples?

Dylan I already commented on.  His appeal, even in his prime, was limited to
the American "intelligentsia."

4.  One aspect of Vysotsky's phenomena is that his popularity doesn't seem
to wane.  He is consistently in the Top Five in downloadables / plays at
Yandex Music, and that's a good indicator of his popularity with the youth.
I don't think Dylan or Marley currently enjoy that level of success.

5.  

> Waits doesn't really belong here, he has never been the voice of a
generation, he's a California jazz musician turned 

> experimental rocker and folky who writes songs about the down-and-outs and
the weirdos. Waits songs are theatrical, they 

> belong on the stage (and have made their way there once or twice) although
they often do have recourse to old folk habits.

Let's apply this to Vysotsky.  "Writes songs about the down-and-outs and the
weirdos"?  Check.  "Theatrical songs that belong on stage"?  Check.  AAMOF,
this and the voice is what makes Waits a very fitting analog of Vysotsky.
About a fifth of his songs Vysotsky wrote for theater, in the range between
war-themed to "Alice in Wonderland."  "Recourse to old folk habits"?  Check.
But you are right, he was never the voice of a generation or a major
cultural force.

Are there any songs that would be close to Vysotsky?  I have only heard some
random songs like "Yesterday's Here," "Singapore," etc.

6.

> If you're looking at sheer impact Marley needs to go a lot higher on that
list, he has very disjointed followings but the number 

> of people who listen to his music and the impact it has had on grassroots
politics, etc. is surprisingly enormous from a man 

> who died so young.

Marley died at 36.  His peak lasted about seven years.  His longevity (btw,
I'm talking about longevity of impact, not longevity of career) and impact
are certainly very high.  He fits the political, spiritual, and "dark vibe"
angles of Vysotsky.

He can certainly overtake Cohen in terms of impact and being a cultural
icon, but not in terms of longevity:  Cohen is still very relevant and still
sells out stadiums.  Marley can probably overtake Cash in impact and
possibly as the "icon"(although I believe Cash was always huge in the
South), but definitely not Springsteen.

7. 

> As a poet Cohen matches but the music isn't comparable and Cohen was
always poet first, musician second.

But you've just described Vysotsky!  Or did you mean it the other way
around?

> For my money, Marley, Dylan and Lennon really strike me as probably the
best choices.

Seriously, no Cash?  He had the darkest vibe of them all, and to me it's a
key ingredient in Vysotsky's legacy.  It would also be helpful to know if
any of them exhibited the "Гибельный восторг" of Vysotsky.

8.

> Part of Vysotsky's fame came from the fact that he was he was also an
incredible actor of stage and screen - including giving one

> of the most internationally renowned performances of Hamlet of his
generation - if not the 20th century.

Cash and Elvis were both actors.  Jon Bon Jovi is an actor.  Acting alone
doesn't necessarily add to one's legacy and cultural status.  In fact,
Vysotsky's two signature roles -- Zheglov and Don Juan -- did not happen
until his dying days.

> I do think that it is apples and oranges - but if you are trying to
describe an orange to someone who has never seen one, you 

> have be creative. 

Very well versed :).

9.

> Let's not forget Lennon's (in)famous quote about the Beatles being "more
popular than Jesus now." (it was true, but many didn't want to hear it)

Lennon was bigger than Jesus with the Beatles.  But in the 70s he seemed a
little washed up, although, oddly enough, this is when his societal stands
became much stronger.  But, again, I need to listen more to his solo stuff.
What I've heard ("Imagine," "Believe") lacked in power, somewhat.
10. I'd love for this discussion to continue.  But if, for whatever reason,
you (or the moderator) don't want to continue it here, let's do this at
www.facebook.com/vysotskyinenglish
Thank you all for your contribution!

Vadim

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