Analogs of Vysotsky - IV

[Michael D Johnson]

What about Phil Ochs?
"voice of non-conformity, protest..." check.
"story-teller" check.
"appeal to a wide audience" ??  and influence?   perhaps he died too young

or Paul Simon?

Is "Sounds of Silence" not a song of protest or, at least, a statement on
60s society?
Is he not a poet and storyteller?
He did try to act (One-Trick Pony, 1980)


On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 3:22 PM, Sentinel76 Astrakhan <
thysentinel at hotmail.com> wrote:

> Hello, again.
>
> *I would vote for Dylan. One of the original criticisms against this was
> that Dylan only spoke to the American intelligentsia while Vysotsky's
> influence was more universal in the USSR. That may be true (although others
> in this list have written about Dylan's broad influence, with which I
> agree), but it could be argued that they were both speaking to the same
> audience. This depends on the definition of "intelligentsia," but if that
> term is defined broadly as those who are socially and politically
> conscious, then Vysotsky spoke to the same people. The only difference is
> that there were many more Soviet citizens into that category than
> Americans. *
>
> I disagree.  An intellectual is an intellectual, and a bum in the street
> is a bum in the street.  Vysotsky appealed to factory workers, miners,
> truck drivers, cops, and prisoners in a way that Dylan did not.  I maintain
> that Cash and especially Marley appealed to these (huge) segments of the
> society substantially more than Dylan.
>
> *I don't think anyone could possibly have had the same influence in
> America that Vysotsky did in the USSR.  *
>
> Elvis.  If only he wrote better poetry, Americans would have them their
> own Vysotsky.  Heck, Lennon came close.
>
> *Attention is pulled in too many different directions over here (but it's
> fun to hear everyone argue for their favorites!). I don't mean this as an
> insult, but there's a reason why there are 8-10 American/British artists on
> that list and only one Soviet. *
>
> That's just not true.  I can bring up Okudzhava, BG, Shevchuk, and Tsoy
> who are not far behind Cash, Dylan, and Cobain in terms of their impact (if
> at all).  And, speaking of arguing their favorites:
> *But the most appropriate comparison is actually Eddie Vedder and Pearl
> Jam.*
>
> You clearly let your personal tastes carry you away.  PJ's appeal was even
> briefer than Nirvana's.  "Massively popular" is a massive overstatement.
> *So, I would argue, in terms of his lasting fame, Vysotsky's acting should
> be considered. *
>
> In terms of lasting fame -- absolutely.  But, like I said:  his main two
> roles had largely a posthumous effect.
>
> *But I still believe that there can not possibly be an American /Western
> equivalent of Vladimir Vysonsky. To truly see his uniqueness we have to
> look at the context (the Soviet state, the time of stagnation) and recall
> that Vysotsky was a voice of non-conformity, subversion and protest. None
> of the American or any Western singers/poets/bards had to deal with
> anything comparable to the Soviet censorship. *
>
> Bob Marley.  In fact, Marley went to far greater distances in "protest"
> than any of the people we've discussed so far, including Vysotsky.
>
> Vysotsky, btw, was never an open "protester."  He never wrote a song like
> Marley's "Get up, Stand up."  He never called out for the open protest and
> was never an open dissident.  All his songs were ultimately about himself,
> in various (often imaginary) scenarios.  He was the ultimate lone wolf.
> Power of One, personified.
>
> *Vysotsky's topics and images were truly unique. Just recall his songs
> "The One Who did not Shoot" (tot, kotoryi ne strelial), Penal Batallions
> (Shtrafnye batal'ony), Bathhouse (Ban'ka). *
>
> They were unique, but these are not the best examples.  For example, one
> can, without too much stress, imagine "The One Who Didn't Shoot," being
> written not only by Alexander Galich, but also by Bob Dylan.  I cannot
> imagine anybody writing "Wolfhunt," "The Ornery Horses," "The Monument," or
> "History of Illness," that's for sure.
>
> I am still struggling with Marley.  I have listened to several songs of
> his last night.  He has a totally different vibe from Vysotsky.  He does
> have a strong message and his words are very resonant, but so far I haven't
> heard any notable storytelling.  And Vysotsky was, first and foremost, a
> terrific storyteller.  Marley's words don't seem to carry much of
> intellectual stimulation, like those of Vysotsky, Dylan, and Cohen.  Plus
> Marley just sounds too laid back, ya'know?  Vysotsky was all about
> intensity and attack.
>
> As far as Marley's appeal / impact goes, it seems that I underestimated
> his popularity.  From talking to different people, it seems like he
> currently rivals, and possibly surpasses Morrison.  Again, we are talking
> US/UK, because in the Third World Marley beats everyone into pulp.  But
> even in America you will not find many kids, of all races and statutes, who
> would not have heard of Marley.
>
> The only aspect that I don't see anybody rivaling Vysotsky, in the West or
> in the East, is his intensity and sheer domination.  In the world of thrash
> metal, maybe (think James Hetfield of Metallica and Phil Anselmo of
> Pantera), but they are fairly low in the category of "universal
> listenability" :).
>
> Vadim
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