From rzajac at KUL.PL  Sun Jun  1 11:38:41 2014
From: rzajac at KUL.PL (=?iso-8859-2?Q?Ryszard_Zaj=B1czkowski?=)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 13:38:41 +0200
Subject: Conference
Message-ID: <SUN.1.JUN.2014.133841.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Culture and Patronage

 

The  Department of the Theory of Culture and Art at The John Paul II Catholic University of Lublin (Poland) invites you to participate in a conference entitled Culture and Patronage, which will attempt to gather and analyze various models for cooperation between the cultural and economic sectors, reflecting on creative partnership of the two domains and exchange of knowledge between them. Scholars and those with experience in management, counselling, volunteering, fundraising etc. are invited to participate. The language of the conference will be Polish and English. We propose the following thematic areas: 

 

  1.. Important experience having contemporary relevance from the history of patronage. 
  2.. Legal, psychological and sociological aspects of the functioning of patronage. 
  3.. Forms of public and private patronage in Poland and abroad.
  4.. Financial and non-financial models of cooperation between the cultural and economic sectors.
  5.. Business solutions for culture.
  6.. The Church as a contemporary patron of culture.
  7.. Patronage in exile.
 

The conference will be held from 20 to 21 November at the John Paul II Catholic University of Lublin, 14 Racławickie Ave., Lublin. The cost of  participation is 100 Euro (excluding accommodation). Notification of proposed contributions with abstracts of up to 300 words should be submitted by 30 July 2014, addressed to: rzajac at kul.pl 

 

Prof. Ryszard Zajączkowski 

                                                                                  www.kul.pl/zajaczkowski 

                                               

 


---
Ta wiadomość e-mail jest wolna od wirusów i złośliwego oprogramowania, ponieważ ochrona avast! Antivirus jest aktywna.
http://www.avast.com

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From todd at FAS.HARVARD.EDU  Sun Jun  1 14:44:02 2014
From: todd at FAS.HARVARD.EDU (Todd, William)
Date: Sun, 1 Jun 2014 14:44:02 +0000
Subject: Eugene Onegin Bibliographical Question
In-Reply-To: <1401580697912.39194@dornsife.usc.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.1.JUN.2014.144402.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Marcus,

It’s a very insightful article by Hugh McLean.  Here is the information:

Hugh McLean, “The Tone(s) of Evgenii Onegin,” CALIFORNIA SLAVIC STUDIES 6 (1971) 3-15.

Cheers,

Bill

William Mills Todd III
Harvard College Professor
Harry Tuchman Levin Prof. of Literature

369 Barker Center
Harvard University
Cambridge, MA 02138
(617) 495-0912
todd at fas.harvard.edu<mailto:todd at fas.harvard.edu>

On May 31, 2014, at 7:58 PM, Marcus C. Levitt <levitt at DORNSIFE.USC.EDU<mailto:levitt at DORNSIFE.USC.EDU>> wrote:

Dear Colleagues,

I am trying to locate an article entitled something like "The Tones of Eugene Onegin" but have been unable to find references to it anywhere, not in van Sambeek-Weideli's bibliography or on line. Can someone help?

Thanks,
Marcus

Marcus C. Levitt, Professor
Director of Graduate Studies
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences
University of Southern California
Los Angeles, CA  90089-4353

Fax (213) 740-8550
Tel  (213) 740-2735/6
Web Page: Department: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/sll/
Personal: http://dornsife.usc.edu/cf/sll/faculty_display.cfm?person_ID=1003454
________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list <SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU>> on behalf of SEELANGS automatic digest system <LISTSERV at LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:LISTSERV at LISTSERV.UA.EDU>>
Sent: Monday, May 26, 2014 10:00 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: SEELANGS Digest - 25 May 2014 to 26 May 2014 (#2014-254)


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From mitsu at SYMPHONY.PLALA.OR.JP  Sun Jun  1 17:19:26 2014
From: mitsu at SYMPHONY.PLALA.OR.JP (Mitsu Numano)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 02:19:26 +0900
Subject: Deadline for the ICCEES Makuhari Congress extended
Message-ID: <MON.2.JUN.2014.021926.0900.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers,

 

  Please let me inform you that the deadline for proposals for the ICCEES
World congress in Makuhari, Japan (August 2015) has been extended until June
15.  There are other important pieces of information about the procedure of
submitting proposals on the following webpage. Please take a look:

 

http://src-h.slav.hokudai.ac.jp/iccees2015/index.html

 

  I understand that the on-line system for submitting proposals
unfortunately turned out to be rather complicated and caused trouble and
frustration to some of the prospective participants, but now we accept
proposals with a MS WORD file, which is a much simpler way for submission.
Please consider coming to Japan to take part in this event!

 

  Looking forward to seeing you in Makuhari,

 

Cordially yours,

 

Mitsuyoshi Numano

The University of Tokyo

Co-chair, the Organizing Committee for the 9th ICCEES World Congress in
Makuhari, Japan

 

 

 


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From studyabroad at BARD.EDU  Mon Jun  2 14:01:12 2014
From: studyabroad at BARD.EDU (Bard Abroad)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 09:01:12 -0500
Subject: Position Announcement: Eurasian Program Assistant at Bard College
Message-ID: <MON.2.JUN.2014.090112.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Eurasian Program Assistant

Bard College seeks an enthusiastic Eurasian Program Assistant. The Annandale-based Eurasian Program Assistant will work on the administration of Bard’s partnerships in the former Soviet Union and related collaborative projects, including Smolny College in St. Petersburg, Russia and the American University of Central Asia in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan. Reporting to the Eurasian Program Manager, s/he will provide general administrative support to Bard’s Eurasian initiatives. The position includes, but is not limited to, the following responsibilities:

·         Track and follow-up on a range of concurrent administrative, financial, and logistical activities.  

·         Organize and maintain electronic and paper files.

·         Basic accounting, financial and grant management.

·         Assist and facilitate faculty and staff visits to the Annandale campus.

·         Make travel arrangements for staff and faculty.

·         Work on in-bound international student programs.

·         Collaboration with Bard staff working on various international programs and partnerships

·         Research, development and work on implementing new initiatives and collaborative projects

Qualifications:

·         Previous administrative experience

·         Strong attention to detail

·         High level of competency in MS Excel and Word

·         Strong communication, writing, editing and research skills

·         Flexibility and ability to multi-task, work collaboratively with others, and meet deadlines

·         Culturally adept; able to liaise with persons from around the world

·         BA in a relevant discipline

·         A minimum intermediate-level proficiency in Russian is required

To apply, please send a cover letter, resume and the names of three references by email only to hr14008 at bard.edu. Bard College is an equal opportunity employer and we welcome applications from those who contribute to our diversity.

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From shkapp at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun  2 15:08:13 2014
From: shkapp at GMAIL.COM (Sarah Kapp)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 19:08:13 +0400
Subject: Moscow- summer rooms for rent- Available Immediately!
Message-ID: <MON.2.JUN.2014.190813.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear all,
I am posting this on behalf of a friend, so if you are interested, please
respond to her directly at elizmoody at gmail.com. Thanks!

-----------------------------------------

Moscow- summer rooms for rent- Available Immediately! Two rooms to rent
until late August, one available immediately and one available June 10th.
Both rooms large with double beds, plenty of wardrobe and drawer space,
large windows. One has an AC unit. Great central location near metro
stations Barrikadnaya/Krasnopresnenskaya. Ten-minute walk to Arbat,
twenty-minute walk to Pushkinskaya. All standard utilities. Rent 24,000
rubles per month. I can offer a discount if you are willing to look after
my adorable, two-year-old cat. Please email me if interested. Photos
available. Thanks! Liz Moody elizmoody at gmail.com

------------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Sarah Kapp
PhD Candidate
Department of Slavic Languages and Literature
University of Wisconsin-Madison
1457 Van Hise Hall

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From furnisse at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun  2 21:45:37 2014
From: furnisse at GMAIL.COM (Edie Furniss)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 16:45:37 -0500
Subject: Recruiting Russian language learners for research
Message-ID: <MON.2.JUN.2014.164537.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGS Community,
I am a Ph.D. candidate in the Department of Applied Linguistics at Penn State seeking research participants for my dissertation project. I am looking for learners studying intermediate and advanced Russian in domestic immersion programs in the U.S. this summer, and students in summer study abroad programs in Russian-speaking countries. If you could forward my recruitment email (below) at your earliest convenience to any potentially eligible students, I would greatly appreciate it. Please feel free to email me if you would like any further information about this study.
Best,
Edie Furniss



Dear Russian language learner,

My name is Edie Furniss and I am a Ph.D. Candidate in the Applied Linguistics department at the Pennsylvania State University. I am requesting your participation in my dissertation research. I am seeking participants who are either:

- enrolled in a summer Russian language program in the U.S.
OR
- participating in a summer study abroad program to a Russian-speaking country

As part of this research, you will be asked to complete a series of tasks. Because all of these tasks must be completed online, participants must have access to a computer with an Internet connection and a headset with a microphone.

If you choose to participate in this research, you will be compensated with an Amazon gift certificate for up to $35 (depending on your level of participation).

Please email me at eaf202 at psu.edu if you are interested in participating in this research. I would greatly appreciate it if you could also pass this email along to other potential participants. Thank you!

Best,

Edie Furniss
Ph.D. Candidate (ABD)
The Pennsylvania State University

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From margaret.samu at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun  2 23:22:20 2014
From: margaret.samu at GMAIL.COM (Margaret Samu)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 19:22:20 -0400
Subject: New Publication by Blakesley and Samu - From Realism to the
 Silver Age: New Studies in Russian Artistic Culture
Message-ID: <MON.2.JUN.2014.192220.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Rosalind Blakesley and I are pleased to announce the publication of our new
edited volume
*From Realism to the Silver Age: New Studies in Russian Artistic Culture.
Essays in Honor of Elizabeth Kridl Valkenier *(DeKalb, IL: Northern
Illinois University Press, 2014).
http://www.niupress.niu.edu/niupress/scripts/book/bookResults.asp?ID=696


*Table of Contents*

Ronald Meyer, Elizabeth Kridl Valkenier and the World of Russian Art

1. Rosalind P. Blakesley, Academic Foot Soldier or Nationalist Warhorse?
The Moscow School of Painting and Sculpture, 1843-1861

2. Elena Nesterova, The Brothers Konstantin and Vladimir Makovskii: One
Family, Two Fates

3. Margaret Samu, Making a Case for Realism: The Female Nude in Russian
Satirical Images of the 1860s

4. Eleonora Paston, The Abramtsevo Circle: Founding Principles and
Aesthetic Direction

5. Jefferson Gatrall, Tolstoy, Ge, and Two Pilates: A Tale of the Interarts

6. Molly Brunson, Painting History, Realistically

7. Galina Churak, The Contemporary Reception of Ilia Repin’s Solo
Exhibition of 1891

8. Wendy Salmond, Pavel Tretiakov’s Icons

9. Janet Kennedy, Closing the Books on Peredvizhnichestvo: Mir Iskusstva’s
Long Farewell to Russian Realism

10. Alison Hilton, Serov, Bakst, and the Reinvention of Russia’s Classical
Heritage

11. Alla Rosenfeld,  Between East and West: The Search for National
Identity in Russian Illustrated Children’s Books 1800–1917

12. Marian Burleigh-Motley, Kandinsky’s Study for “Composition No. II,”
1909-10: A Theosophical Reading

13. John Bowlt, Things That Are Not: Marianna Werefkin and the Condition of
Silence


=========================
Margaret Samu
SHERA President
www.shera-art.org

Art History Department
Stern College for Women
245 Lexington Avenue
New York, NY  10016

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From emilka at MAC.COM  Tue Jun  3 00:24:21 2014
From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders)
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 2014 17:24:21 -0700
Subject: Seeking a teenage "guest speaker"
Message-ID: <MON.2.JUN.2014.172421.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Hello!

I'm writing in with a somewhat unusual request (and a somewhat urgent one due to incredibly poor timing on my part).  I teach (very) beginning Russian to high school students online (most are aged 14-15) and I thought that I'd had it set up for a teenage guest speaker (son of a friend) to log into our live class this Wednesday (the last day of classes) and just talk/answer questions.  But then I took a look at the time zones and the Russian Far East is the wrong time zone for a 12:50pm EDT class -- it'd be about 3am and it's hard to ask a 15 year old to log-in to the internet in the dead middle of the night.  But it would work okay for someone in Western Russia (a place where I have fewer personal contacts) to participate.

So I'm wondering if anyone in the SEELANGS world might know of a teen in Russia who would be interested in trying out their English, humoring some very bad Russian (on the part of my freshman 1st year students), and just informally chatting/answering/asking questions for about 30 minutes.  They would need access to a computer with a broadband connection, some sort of microphone, and preferably a webcam.  The online session is in Blackboard Collaborate (for those who have not worked in it, it's like Skype plus a powerpoint whiteboard).  The person would need to be free 8:50-9:30pm Moscow/SPB time Wednesday, June 4th.  A group of teens/friends would also be okay.

IF you happen to know of a willing and interested teen, reply off list.  We can chat and I can supply the guest link for logging in.  

And thank you in advance.  It's a very strange and last minute request, I know!

All the best,

Emily Saunders
blendedschools.net

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Tue Jun  3 07:02:46 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 03:02:46 -0400
Subject: A cavalier approach to quotations (cont.)
In-Reply-To: <FF910572F43550428E2696B32534B715039DAD11@CMS10-02.campus.gla.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <TUE.3.JUN.2014.030246.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

John Dunn wrote:

> Those who have spent the week wondering about the problem of imprecise
> quotation that was raised by Paul Gallagher may find a partial
> explanation in the first story here:
>
> <http://www.snob.ru/selected/entry/34899 >
>
> The other stories are worth reading too.

Hmmm....

The story of the professional Tajik would be funny if it weren't so sad.

I have a colleague who will blame all this on the Western imperialists, 
er, capitalists, who are preventing Tsar Vladimir from restoring the 
former Soviet glory. But that's an argument for another time and place.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From jon.stone at FANDM.EDU  Tue Jun  3 16:21:14 2014
From: jon.stone at FANDM.EDU (Jon Stone)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 12:21:14 -0400
Subject: AATSEEL 2015 REMINDER - second (and final) submission deadline:
 July 1
Message-ID: <TUE.3.JUN.2014.122114.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Call for Papers:  AATSEEL annual conference (Vancouver, January 8-11, 2015)
 
The AATSEEL Call for Papers is now available:  http://www.aatseel.org/cfp_main

The 2015 AATSEEL Conference will be held on January 8-11, 2015 at the Renaissance Harbourside in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada within easy reach of the Modern Language Association (MLA) conference. In addition to scholarly panels, participants will have the chance to attend advanced seminars, roundtables, workshops and other special events.  
 
The 2015 Advanced Seminars will be led by Mark Lipovetsky (UC-Boulder) and Marcus Levitt (USC). Space will be limited.
 
The AATSEEL conference is a forum for exchange of ideas in all areas of Slavic and East/Central European languages, literatures, linguistics, cultures, and pedagogy.  The Program Committee invites scholars in these and related areas to form panels around specific topics, organize roundtable discussions, propose forums on instructional materials, and/or submit proposals for individual presentations for the 2015 Conference.  The conference regularly includes panels in linguistics, pedagogy and second language acquisition, in addition to literature, cinema, and culture.
 
Please submit your proposals by July 1, 2014.  For more information, visit the AATSEEL website: http://www.aatseel.org/cfp_main
 

Please also note the passport and possible visa requirements for travel to Canada:  http://www.aatseel.org/program/hotel/ 


Jon Stone
Assistant Professor of Russian & Russian Studies
Program Committee Chair, AATSEEL
Franklin & Marshall College
PO Box 3003
Lancaster, PA 17604-3003

Office: 217 Keiper
Phone: (717) 358-5891
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From culik at BLISTY.CZ  Tue Jun  3 17:07:26 2014
From: culik at BLISTY.CZ (Jan Culik)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 19:07:26 +0200
Subject: Taught masters scholarships at the University of Glasgow
Message-ID: <TUE.3.JUN.2014.190726.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Please forward to your students. Thank you.


THEY CAN DO CZECH, POLISH, RUSSIAN, AND OTHER CENTRAL AND EAST EUROPEAN
TOPICS WITHIN THIS PROGRAMME. Jan Čulík, University of Glasgow.



The School of Modern Languages and Cultures at the University of Glasgow
is delighted to offer 8 fees-only taught masters scholarships available
for study next academic year, 2014-2015. The scholarships are open to
all and pay the full fees for UK/EU students or an equivalent reduction
for non-EU students.

They may be used for one of the following taught postgraduate programmes:

MLitt in Comparative Literature, MLitt in Modern Languages and Cultures,
MSc in Translation Studies: Translation & Professional Practice
Further information on our postgraduate programmes and how to apply may
be found at http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/mlc/postgraduate/

It is important to stress that language graduates also have the option
of taking the Comparative Literature MLitt: it is not just or even
primarily for students who have done Comp Lit at UG level but rather
(and more importantly!) for students who have languages but wish to
further their studies in intercultural or interdisciplinary ways.

To apply for a scholarship:
You can find further information and an application form at
http://www.gla.ac.uk/schools/mlc/postgraduatescholarships2014-15/
*Deadline **for scholarship applications: **23 June 2014 *
*
Please note that in order to be considered for a scholarship you must
have a conditional or unconditional offer of a place on one of the above
taught masters programmes.

*If you have any questions please feel free to contact us:
Dr Penny Morris (Postgraduate Convenor for the School of Modern
Languages and Cultures; Convenor, MLitt in Modern Languages and
Cultures) Penelope.Morris at glasgow.ac.uk
Dr Laura Martin (Convenor, MLitt in Comparative Literature)
Laura.Martin at glasgow.ac.uk
Dr Georgina Collins (Convenor, MSc in Translation Studies: Translation &
Professional Practice) Georgina.Collins at glasgow.ac.uk
Ms Carolyn Donaldson (Postgraduate Administrative Support)
Carolyn.Donaldson at glasgow.ac.uk

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From klinela at COMCAST.NET  Tue Jun  3 21:48:22 2014
From: klinela at COMCAST.NET (Laura Kline)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 17:48:22 -0400
Subject: Help needed finding short article on Ukrainian art
Message-ID: <TUE.3.JUN.2014.174822.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear All,

Our Ukrainian instructor is creating an introductory course on Ukrainian
culture and is having a lot of trouble finding a single article or chapter
devoted to the history of Ukrainian art (from icons to modern art) that she
could include in a coursepack. The article should not be more than 20 pages
and should not be so detailed that it would intimidate students who are
completely unfamiliar with the topic. If you have any ideas, she would be
grateful for your help.

You can reply directly to me (klinela at comcast.net) or her (Natalia Mayorchak
at nmayorchak at yahoo.com) 

Thank you,

Laura

 

Laura Kline, Ph.D

Sr. Lecturer in Russian

Dept. of Classical and Modern Languages, 

      Literatures, and Cultures

Wayne State University

487 Manoogian Hall

906 W. Warren

Detroit, MI  48187

 


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From info at MALEVICHSOCIETY.ORG  Tue Jun  3 22:36:26 2014
From: info at MALEVICHSOCIETY.ORG (Malevich Society)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 18:36:26 -0400
Subject: Malevich Society Call for Grant Applications
Message-ID: <TUE.3.JUN.2014.183626.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

The Malevich Society is pleased to announce its call for
2014 grant applications.

The Malevich Society is a not-for-profit organization based in New York
dedicated to advancing knowledge about the Russian artist Kazimir Malevich
and his work.

In the belief that Malevich was a pioneer of modern art who should be
recognized for his key contributions to the history of Modernism, the
Society awards grants to encourage research, writing, and other activities
relating to his history and memory.

The Society welcomes applications from scholars of any nationality, and at
various stages of their career. Graduate students are welcome to apply to
the Society’s grants after completing at least one year of dissertation
research. Proposed projects should increase the understanding of Malevich
and his work, or augment historical, biographical, or artistic information
about Malevich and/or his artistic legacy. The Society also supports
translations and the publication of relevant texts.

Application forms and instructions may be requested by telephone at
1-718-980-1805, by e-mail at info at malevichsociety.org, or may be downloaded
from the web-site: www.malevichsociety.org. Applications and all supporting
documents should be submitted via e-mail to applications at malevichsociety.org
.

Deadline: September 30, 2014

----


The Malevich Society

Общество Малевичa

+1.718.980.1805

info at malevichsociety.org

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From emilka at MAC.COM  Wed Jun  4 02:15:51 2014
From: emilka at MAC.COM (Emily Saunders)
Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 19:15:51 -0700
Subject: Seeking a teenage "guest speaker"
In-Reply-To: <FA6CF99C-5CB3-4E2B-A989-F8355C8A7F43@mac.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.3.JUN.2014.191551.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Hello SEELANGOVTSY!

I just wanted to follow up with a big thank you to all who responded to me off list.  I've got two guest speakers lined up for my class tomorrow and we'll see how it goes.  Thank you to all for the suggestions.  I am potentially interested in setting up something more structured for next year -- something more akin to a penpal connection -- but have not yet figured out how that might look.  Would also be interested in suggestions or advice from anyone who has done something like that in any of their classes.  My students are mostly high school aged (not college).

Thanks!

Emily Saunders
blendedschools.net

On Jun 2, 2014, at 5:24 PM, Emily Saunders wrote:

> Hello!
> 
> I'm writing in with a somewhat unusual request (and a somewhat urgent one due to incredibly poor timing on my part).  I teach (very) beginning Russian to high school students online (most are aged 14-15) and I thought that I'd had it set up for a teenage guest speaker (son of a friend) to log into our live class this Wednesday (the last day of classes) and just talk/answer questions.  But then I took a look at the time zones and the Russian Far East is the wrong time zone for a 12:50pm EDT class -- it'd be about 3am and it's hard to ask a 15 year old to log-in to the internet in the dead middle of the night.  But it would work okay for someone in Western Russia (a place where I have fewer personal contacts) to participate.
> 
> So I'm wondering if anyone in the SEELANGS world might know of a teen in Russia who would be interested in trying out their English, humoring some very bad Russian (on the part of my freshman 1st year students), and just informally chatting/answering/asking questions for about 30 minutes.  They would need access to a computer with a broadband connection, some sort of microphone, and preferably a webcam.  The online session is in Blackboard Collaborate (for those who have not worked in it, it's like Skype plus a powerpoint whiteboard).  The person would need to be free 8:50-9:30pm Moscow/SPB time Wednesday, June 4th.  A group of teens/friends would also be okay.
> 
> IF you happen to know of a willing and interested teen, reply off list.  We can chat and I can supply the guest link for logging in.  
> 
> And thank you in advance.  It's a very strange and last minute request, I know!
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Emily Saunders
> blendedschools.net
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                        http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
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From srpski at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jun  4 12:50:55 2014
From: srpski at GMAIL.COM (Serbian Workshop)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 14:50:55 +0200
Subject: 200 Years from the First Grammar of the Serbian Contemporary
 Language and 150 Years from the Death of Vuk Karadzic
Message-ID: <WED.4.JUN.2014.145055.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Sir or Madam,
I would like to inform you about two big anniversaries for the Slavic
world in 2014:
200 years ago, in 1814 in Vienna, Vuk Karadžić printed his first
grammar of Serbian language in his reformed ortography:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx1n87ntSfwLS0VtU3FEc0xrdWc/edit?usp=sharing
150 years ago, in 1856, Vuk Karadžić died in Vienna:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bx1n87ntSfwLamk1OTdtZm51RlE/edit
We wish to remember these two great events with these posters, you are
free to download them and print them at your will. I would also like
to ask you to disseminate them to everybody who might be interested.

Serbian Language and Culture Workshop also wishes to invite all
willing to learn Serbian language to visit us in Belgrade and Valjevo.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx1n87ntSfwLN2Z4NWFTSlh4Uzg/edit?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bx1n87ntSfwLWFBsM1R1Z09PNkk/edit?usp=sharing
Best regards!
--
Predrag Obucina, MPhil
Project Director
Serbian Language and Culture Workshop
phone: +381-631-631-631
skype: serbianonline

--
http://www.srpskijezik.edu.rs/

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From e.gapova at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jun  4 13:23:22 2014
From: e.gapova at GMAIL.COM (Elena Gapova)
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 09:23:22 -0400
Subject: A cavalier approach to quotations (cont.)
In-Reply-To: <538D7316.8060103@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <WED.4.JUN.2014.092322.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Paul,

Your colleague may have  a point as far as capitalists or, rather,
"capitalism" (pursuit of economic efficiency), are concerned. The reason
for which Mexicans go to Texas, Poles and Lithuanians go to GB and Tadjiks
go to Moscow is pay differential, or different cost of labour in different
parts of the globe. All these people are "interesting" for capitalists
because they can be paid less (and often treated as less human).

Elena Gapova




On 3 June 2014 03:02, Paul B. Gallagher <paulbg at pbg-translations.com> wrote:

> John Dunn wrote:
>
>  Those who have spent the week wondering about the problem of imprecise
>> quotation that was raised by Paul Gallagher may find a partial
>> explanation in the first story here:
>>
>> <http://www.snob.ru/selected/entry/34899 >
>>
>> The other stories are worth reading too.
>>
>
> Hmmm....
>
> The story of the professional Tajik would be funny if it weren't so sad.
>
> I have a colleague who will blame all this on the Western imperialists,
> er, capitalists, who are preventing Tsar Vladimir from restoring the former
> Soviet glory. But that's an argument for another time and place.
>
> --
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                        http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Thu Jun  5 05:48:05 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 06:48:05 +0100
Subject: READ RUSSIA Prize
Message-ID: <THU.5.JUN.2014.064805.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

My congratulations, as always, to Joanne Turnbull, and my thanks to NYRB Classics for publishing so many wonderful writers - and not only those who are already well-known!

See
http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrb-news/2014/jun/04/sigizmund-krzhizhanovsky-novel-wins-2014-read-rus/

And also this:
http://www.pen.org/blog/recommended-reading-celebrated-translations

All the best,

Robert

Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Thu Jun  5 17:07:50 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 13:07:50 -0400
Subject: Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
Message-ID: <THU.5.JUN.2014.130750.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Can anyone recommend a good translation?

Despite the second-person grammatical form, it seems to have the force 
of an exhortation; several Russians have told me it feels like "let's 
[do such-and-such]!" But to me as an outsider, it comes across more as a 
demand for performance by the listener alone than as a call for joint 
performance by speaker and listener.

Thanks.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM  Thu Jun  5 18:31:35 2014
From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM (Oleksandr Spirin)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 11:31:35 -0700
Subject: Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
In-Reply-To: <5390A3E6.50906@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <THU.5.JUN.2014.113135.0700.OLEKSANDR.SPIRIN@YMAIL.COM>

Dear Mr. Paul Gallagher,

in reply to your query I would like to offer you an excerpt
 from: 
D.I.
Kveselevich & V.P. Sasina RUSSIAN-ENGLISH DICTINARY OF INTERJECTIONS: Approx. 1,000 units. – Moscow: Astrel, AST, 2001. – P. 110.

===================================
4. Даёшь прост. Употр. как призыв к штурму, атаке,
ударной работе и т.п. herewecome!, herewego!


Наш поезд всё катит и катит,
С дороги его не свернёшь, 
И ночью горит на плакате 
воскресшее слово – ‘Даёшь!’

                          - Я. Смеляков

Our train
rushes onward and onward,
Every night
till its journey is done,
The poster shall blaze with its slogan 
revived from
the past: ‘Here we come!’


=======================================

With kind regards,

Oleksandr Spirin
translator
Kharkiv, Ukraine
oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com



On Thursday, June 5, 2014 8:09 PM, Paul B. Gallagher <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM> wrote:
 


Can anyone recommend a good translation?

Despite the second-person grammatical form, it seems to have the force 
of an exhortation; several Russians have told me it feels like "let's 
[do such-and-such]!" But to me as an outsider, it comes across more as a 
demand for performance by the listener alone than as a call for joint 
performance by speaker and listener.

Thanks.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM  Thu Jun  5 18:31:59 2014
From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM (Oleksandr Spirin)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 11:31:59 -0700
Subject: Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
In-Reply-To: <5390A3E6.50906@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <THU.5.JUN.2014.113159.0700.OLEKSANDR.SPIRIN@YMAIL.COM>

Dear Mr. Paul Gallagher,

in reply to your query I would like to offer you an excerpt
 from: 
D.I.
Kveselevich & V.P. Sasina RUSSIAN-ENGLISH DICTINARY OF INTERJECTIONS: Approx. 1,000 units. – Moscow: Astrel, AST, 2001. – P. 110.

===================================
4. Даёшь прост. Употр. как призыв к штурму, атаке,
ударной работе и т.п. herewecome!, herewego!


Наш поезд всё катит и катит,
С дороги его не свернёшь, 
И ночью горит на плакате 
воскресшее слово – ‘Даёшь!’

                          - Я. Смеляков

Our train
rushes onward and onward,
Every night
till its journey is done,
The poster shall blaze with its slogan 
revived from
the past: ‘Here we come!’


=======================================

With kind regards,

Oleksandr Spirin
translator
Kharkiv, Ukraine
oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com



On Thursday, June 5, 2014 8:09 PM, Paul B. Gallagher <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM> wrote:
 


Can anyone recommend a good translation?

Despite the second-person grammatical form, it seems to have the force 
of an exhortation; several Russians have told me it feels like "let's 
[do such-and-such]!" But to me as an outsider, it comes across more as a 
demand for performance by the listener alone than as a call for joint 
performance by speaker and listener.

Thanks.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B.
 Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From slavic at CHASS.UTORONTO.CA  Thu Jun  5 19:55:27 2014
From: slavic at CHASS.UTORONTO.CA (Slavic Department)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 15:55:27 -0400
Subject: ASSISTANT/ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR - 18TH and EARLY 19TH CENTURY
 RUSSIAN POETRY and HISTORICAL POETICS - 1401150
Message-ID: <THU.5.JUN.2014.155527.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Assistant/Associate Professor - 18th and Early 19th Century Russian Poetry
and Historical Poetics - 1401150


The Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures at the University of
Toronto invites applications for a tenure-stream Assistant or Associate
Professor appointment in 18th and early 19th century Russian Poetry and
Historical Poetics, beginning July 1, 2015.

The successful candidate must have a Ph.D. at the time of application.
Native or near-native fluency in Russian and in English is required.
Candidates must have a record of excellent scholarly achievement and
promise, and evidence of excellence in teaching. The successful candidate
must show significant achievement in research and publications in 18th and
early 19th century Russian poetry and historical poetics, as well as
extensive experience designing and teaching Russian language, literature,
and culture courses for undergraduate and graduate students. Candidates must
have North American teaching experience. The appointee will be expected to
teach Russian language, literature, and culture courses at all levels. A
documented interest in comparative, transnational, and interdisciplinary
research and curriculum development is considered a strong asset. 

Salary to be commensurate with qualifications and experience. 

All qualified candidates are invited to apply by selecting the link below.
Applications should include a cover letter, curriculum vitae, teaching
dossier (including a statement of teaching philosophy), a sample of academic
writing, and a statement outlining current and future research interests. If
you have questions about this position, please contact Professor Donna Orwin
at donna.orwin at utoronto.ca. All application materials should be submitted
online by June 19, 2014. 

Submission guidelines can be found at: http://uoft.me/how-to-apply. We
recommend combining attached documents into one or two files in PDF/MS Word
format. 

Applicants should also ask at least three referees to send letters directly
to the department via e-mail to Toni Eyre at t.eyre at utoronto.ca by June 19,
2014. 
For more information about the Department of Slavic Languages and
Literatures, please visit http://www.utoronto.ca/slavic/.

The University of Toronto is strongly committed to diversity within its
community and especially welcomes applications from visible minority group
members, women, Aboriginal persons, persons with disabilities, members of
sexual minority groups, and others who may contribute to the further
diversification of ideas.

All qualified candidates are encouraged to apply; however, Canadians and
permanent residents will be given priority. 

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Thu Jun  5 20:30:05 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 16:30:05 -0400
Subject: Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
In-Reply-To: <1401993095.3353.YahooMailNeo@web122205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <THU.5.JUN.2014.163005.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Oleksandr Spirin wrote:

> Dear Mr. Paul Gallagher,
>
> in reply to your query I would like to offer you an excerpt
> from:
> D.I. Kveselevich & V.P. Sasina *RUSSIAN-ENGLISH DICTINARY OF
> INTERJECTIONS: *Approx. 1,000 units. – Moscow: Astrel, AST, 2001. – P. 110.
> ...
> ===================================
> 4. *Даёшь* /прост. Употр. как призыв к штурму, атаке, ударной работе и
> т.п./ here we come!, here we go!
>
...

Thank you kindly. The word seems to have the function, if not the form, 
of давай!, which I would normally translate as "let's go!"

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From anne.o.fisher at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun  5 21:29:11 2014
From: anne.o.fisher at GMAIL.COM (Anne Fisher)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 14:29:11 -0700
Subject: EF Russia Teachers query
Message-ID: <THU.5.JUN.2014.142911.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Hello all,

A friend is applying for a job teaching English in Russia with EF Russia
Teachers, http://ef-russiateachers.com/.

If anyone has any thoughts to share on their experiences with this
organization, please contact me off-line.

Thank you,

Annie

-- 
Anne O. Fisher, Ph.D.
Russian>English Translator
anne.o.fisher at gmail.com
440-986-0175 (GMT-7)

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From ben.phillips at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun  5 22:37:16 2014
From: ben.phillips at GMAIL.COM (Ben Phillips)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 02:37:16 +0400
Subject: Kropotkin and the Russian =?UTF-8?Q?=C3=A9migr=C3=A9_?=press
Message-ID: <FRI.6.JUN.2014.023716.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers,

Working on Petr Kropotkin's lichnyi fond in Moscow's GARF recently, I came
across a draft of a letter written by Kropotkin to the editor of a journal
entitled *Nakanune* on the historical significance of Decembrism
(1129.1.566, Письмо редактору журнала "Накануне" об историческом значении
восстания декабристов). With the exception of the year (1900), the letter
is undated, and, it being a handwritten draft, the editor's name is
illegible, as is much of the rest of the document. Since my research deals
with images of Siberian exile in the pre-revolutionary emigration, the
letter is something I would very much like to read, and so I'm trying to
find a published version.

The problem is that I can find no trace of any journal of that name having
existed in 1900 in any of the Lenin Library catalogues nor in the online
RNB catalogue. My first thought is that, given its title and the Kropotkin
connection, this *Nakanune* is likely to have been an émigré publication
and thus may either a) be known to posterity under a different title, since
these publications did rename themselves quite frequently, or b) might
otherwise simply have been another piece of ephemera from the enormous
pre-revolutionary émigré press, a journal that ran to perhaps two or three
editions and then disappeared without ever having been catalogued. Neither
seems that likely to me: major library catalogues are normally very good at
noting publications' name changes, and would someone of Kropotkin's stature
really have had the time or inclination to write to such a minor journal?

If someone here could offer either an explanation, some insight, or some
clues on where I might go about searching for the journal otherwise, I'd be
very grateful.

Many thanks,

Ben Phillips
UCL SSEES
16 Taviton Street
London
United Kingdom
WC1H 0BW
020 7679 8700
b.phillips.12 at ucl.ac.uk

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From jpf3 at UCHICAGO.EDU  Thu Jun  5 22:50:29 2014
From: jpf3 at UCHICAGO.EDU (June P. Farris)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 22:50:29 +0000
Subject: Kropotkin and the Russian =?gb2312?Q?=A8=A6migr=A8=A6_?=press
In-Reply-To: <CAH-EU8+k8U0wOCNKTQ7beqrLny1Q+7AUEtcD9kxonvUNWT0Zxg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.5.JUN.2014.225029.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

There is a "Nakanunie" (pre-1917 spelling) that was published in London from 1899-1902.

The British Library has holdings as well as several U.S. libraries.
Sorry Chicago doesn't have it, so I can't look for the article for you.
Best, June Farris

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 5, 2014, at 5:38 PM, "Ben Phillips" <ben.phillips at GMAIL.COM<mailto:ben.phillips at GMAIL.COM>> wrote:

Dear SEELANGers,

Working on Petr Kropotkin's lichnyi fond in Moscow's GARF recently, I came across a draft of a letter written by Kropotkin to the editor of a journal entitled Nakanune on the historical significance of Decembrism (1129.1.566, Письмо редактору журнала "Накануне" об историческом значении восстания декабристов). With the exception of the year (1900), the letter is undated, and, it being a handwritten draft, the editor's name is illegible, as is much of the rest of the document. Since my research deals with images of Siberian exile in the pre-revolutionary emigration, the letter is something I would very much like to read, and so I'm trying to find a published version.

The problem is that I can find no trace of any journal of that name having existed in 1900 in any of the Lenin Library catalogues nor in the online RNB catalogue. My first thought is that, given its title and the Kropotkin connection, this Nakanune is likely to have been an émigré publication and thus may either a) be known to posterity under a different title, since these publications did rename themselves quite frequently, or b) might otherwise simply have been another piece of ephemera from the enormous pre-revolutionary émigré press, a journal that ran to perhaps two or three editions and then disappeared without ever having been catalogued. Neither seems that likely to me: major library catalogues are normally very good at noting publications' name changes, and would someone of Kropotkin's stature really have had the time or inclination to write to such a minor journal?

If someone here could offer either an explanation, some insight, or some clues on where I might go about searching for the journal otherwise, I'd be very grateful.

Many thanks,

Ben Phillips
UCL SSEES
16 Taviton Street
London
United Kingdom
WC1H 0BW
020 7679 8700
b.phillips.12 at ucl.ac.uk<mailto:b.phillips.12 at ucl.ac.uk>
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From oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM  Thu Jun  5 23:36:21 2014
From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM (Oleksandr Spirin)
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 2014 16:36:21 -0700
Subject: Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
In-Reply-To: <5390D34D.5070104@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <THU.5.JUN.2014.163621.0700.OLEKSANDR.SPIRIN@YMAIL.COM>

«ДАЁШЬ ПЕРЕКОП И ЧОНГАР!» - призыв к штурму, атаке (http://a-pesni.org/grvojna/kr/a-daechper.php).
"Даёшь досрочное выполнение плана!"  - Восклицание, призывающее к осуществлению ч.-н. (С.И. Ожегов)
From these examples you can see there are nuances of meaning of "даёшь". It is possible that each time "даёшь" would be translated taking into account these nuances.


On Thursday, June 5, 2014 11:33 PM, Paul B. Gallagher <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM> wrote:
 


Oleksandr Spirin wrote:

> Dear Mr. Paul Gallagher,
>
> in reply to your query I would like to offer you an excerpt
> from:
> D.I. Kveselevich & V.P. Sasina *RUSSIAN-ENGLISH DICTINARY OF
> INTERJECTIONS: *Approx. 1,000 units. – Moscow: Astrel, AST, 2001. – P. 110.
> ...
> ===================================
> 4. *Даёшь* /прост. Употр. как призыв к штурму, атаке, ударной работе и
> т.п./ here we come!, here we go!
>
...

Thank you kindly. The word seems to have the function, if not the form, 
of давай!, which I would normally translate as "let's go!"


-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK  Fri Jun  6 08:08:33 2014
From: John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK (John Dunn)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:08:33 +0000
Subject: Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
In-Reply-To: <1402011381.5794.YahooMailNeo@web122206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.6.JUN.2014.080833.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

As Bob the Builder and one or two lesser-known characters might say:

Yes, we can!

John Dunn.
________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Oleksandr Spirin [oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM]
Sent: 06 June 2014 01:36
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"

«ДАЁШЬ ПЕРЕКОП И ЧОНГАР!» - призыв к штурму, атаке (http://a-pesni.org/grvojna/kr/a-daechper.php).
"Даёшь досрочное выполнение плана!"  - Восклицание, призывающее к осуществлению ч.-н. (С.И. Ожегов)
>From these examples you can see there are nuances of meaning of "даёшь". It is possible that each time "даёшь" would be translated taking into account these nuances.




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From wfr at SAS.AC.UK  Fri Jun  6 10:01:30 2014
From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (william ryan)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 11:01:30 +0100
Subject: Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
In-Reply-To: <1402011381.5794.YahooMailNeo@web122206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.6.JUN.2014.110130.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Steve Marder's excellent Supplementary Russian-English Dictionary has 
the word (s.v. davat', 8.) with the translation "forward to, onward to" 
with the same Soviet slogan as an example "Даёшь досрочное выполнение 
плана!". Its always worth checking there when other dictionaries fail.

Will Ryan

On 06/06/2014 00:36, Oleksandr Spirin wrote:
> «ДАЁШЬ ПЕРЕКОП И ЧОНГАР!» - призыв к штурму, атаке 
> (http://a-pesni.org/grvojna/kr/a-daechper.php).
> "Даёшь досрочное выполнение плана!"  - Восклицание, призывающее к 
> осуществлению ч.-н. (С.И. Ожегов)
> From these examples you can see there are nuances of meaning of 
> "даёшь". It is possible that each time "даёшь" would be translated 
> taking into account these nuances.
>
>
> On Thursday, June 5, 2014 11:33 PM, Paul B. Gallagher 
> <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM> wrote:
>
>
> Oleksandr Spirin wrote:
>
> > Dear Mr. Paul Gallagher,
> >
> > in reply to your query I would like to offer you an excerpt
> > from:
> > D.I. Kveselevich & V.P. Sasina *RUSSIAN-ENGLISH DICTINARY OF
> > INTERJECTIONS: *Approx. 1,000 units. – Moscow: Astrel, AST, 2001. – 
> P. 110.
> > ...
> > ===================================
> > 4. *Даёшь* /прост. Употр. как призыв к штурму, атаке, ударной работе и
> > т.п./ here we come!, here we go!
> >
> ...
>
> Thank you kindly. The word seems to have the function, if not the form,
> of давай!, which I would normally translate as "let's go!"
>
>
> -- 
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com <http://pbg-translations.com/>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription 
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: 
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 


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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Fri Jun  6 15:48:04 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Fri, 6 Jun 2014 11:48:04 -0400
Subject: Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
In-Reply-To: <5391917A.1090601@sas.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <FRI.6.JUN.2014.114804.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Thanks again to the second generation of responders, who as might be 
expected outnumbered the first generation and provided additional insights.

I was pleased to see that I am not the only one who still has Steve 
Marder's dictionary, but embarrassed that I had focused on electronic 
sources while overlooking his.

These constructions with даёшь remind me a little of the Korean 
constructions with 주다 /juda/ "to give," where the verb is used as a 
sort of auxiliary when the action will benefit another. E.g.,

민희는 엄마를 도와 주었다
Minhui-neun eeomma-reul dowa ju-eot-ta
Minhee-topic Mom-acc. help give-past-declarative
Minhee did Mom the favor of helping her.

More examples here, clearest after the photo (the English glosses 
suffice to make the point):
<http://www.learnkoreanlp.com/2008/10/give-favour-of.html>

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From falcon at USNA.EDU  Sat Jun  7 16:34:05 2014
From: falcon at USNA.EDU (Danine Falcon)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 12:34:05 -0400
Subject: SEELANGS Digest - 5 Jun 2014 to 6 Jun 2014 (#2014-266)
In-Reply-To: <SEELANGS%201406070000003807.0008@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Message-ID: <SAT.7.JUN.2014.123405.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

So, would it be possible to use "ДАЁШЬ!" to translate the slogan, "Go Navy,
Beat Army!" ?? And what would be the best choice of words for "beat," given
the meaning of the word beat in this context?

Thanks for any help with this!

Danine Falcon

Danine Falcon
Russian Language Adjunct Instructor
United States Naval Academy
Annapolis, MD 21402

On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 1:00 AM, SEELANGS automatic digest system <
LISTSERV at listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> There are 3 messages totaling 423 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>   1. Soviet slogan "Dayosh!" (3)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 6 Jun 2014 08:08:33 +0000
> From:    John Dunn <John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK>
> Subject: Re: Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
>
> As Bob the Builder and one or two lesser-known characters might say:
>
> Yes, we can!
>
> John Dunn.
> ________________________________
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [
> SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Oleksandr Spirin [
> oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM]
> Sent: 06 June 2014 01:36
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
>
> «ДАЁШЬ ПЕРЕКОП И ЧОНГАР!» - призыв к штурму, атаке (
> http://a-pesni.org/grvojna/kr/a-daechper.php).
> "Даёшь досрочное выполнение плана!"  - Восклицание, призывающее к
> осуществлению ч.-н. (С.И. Ожегов)
> From these examples you can see there are nuances of meaning of "даёшь".
> It is possible that each time "даёшь" would be translated taking into
> account these nuances.
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 6 Jun 2014 11:01:30 +0100
> From:    william ryan <wfr at SAS.AC.UK>
> Subject: Re: Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
>
> Steve Marder's excellent Supplementary Russian-English Dictionary has
> the word (s.v. davat', 8.) with the translation "forward to, onward to"
> with the same Soviet slogan as an example "Даёшь досрочное выполнение
> плана!". Its always worth checking there when other dictionaries fail.
>
> Will Ryan
>
> On 06/06/2014 00:36, Oleksandr Spirin wrote:
> > «ДАЁШЬ ПЕРЕКОП И ЧОНГАР!» - призыв к штурму, атаке
> > (http://a-pesni.org/grvojna/kr/a-daechper.php).
> > "Даёшь досрочное выполнение плана!"  - Восклицание, призывающее к
> > осуществлению ч.-н. (С.И. Ожегов)
> > From these examples you can see there are nuances of meaning of
> > "даёшь". It is possible that each time "даёшь" would be translated
> > taking into account these nuances.
> >
> >
> > On Thursday, June 5, 2014 11:33 PM, Paul B. Gallagher
> > <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Oleksandr Spirin wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Mr. Paul Gallagher,
> > >
> > > in reply to your query I would like to offer you an excerpt
> > > from:
> > > D.I. Kveselevich & V.P. Sasina *RUSSIAN-ENGLISH DICTINARY OF
> > > INTERJECTIONS: *Approx. 1,000 units. – Moscow: Astrel, AST, 2001. –
> > P. 110.
> > > ...
> > > ===================================
> > > 4. *Даёшь* /прост. Употр. как призыв к штурму, атаке, ударной работе и
> > > т.п./ here we come!, here we go!
> > >
> > ...
> >
> > Thank you kindly. The word seems to have the function, if not the form,
> > of давай!, which I would normally translate as "let's go!"
> >
> >
> > --
> > War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> > --
> > Paul B. Gallagher
> > pbg translations, inc.
> > "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> > http://pbg-translations.com <http://pbg-translations.com/>
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> >   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> > http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> > options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> > http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 6 Jun 2014 11:48:04 -0400
> From:    "Paul B. Gallagher" <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>
> Subject: Re: Soviet slogan "Dayosh!"
>
> Thanks again to the second generation of responders, who as might be
> expected outnumbered the first generation and provided additional insights.
>
> I was pleased to see that I am not the only one who still has Steve
> Marder's dictionary, but embarrassed that I had focused on electronic
> sources while overlooking his.
>
> These constructions with даёшь remind me a little of the Korean
> constructions with 주다 /juda/ "to give," where the verb is used as a
> sort of auxiliary when the action will benefit another. E.g.,
>
> 민희는 엄마를 도와 주었다
> Minhui-neun eeomma-reul dowa ju-eot-ta
> Minhee-topic Mom-acc. help give-past-declarative
> Minhee did Mom the favor of helping her.
>
> More examples here, clearest after the photo (the English glosses
> suffice to make the point):
> <http://www.learnkoreanlp.com/2008/10/give-favour-of.html>
>
> --
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of SEELANGS Digest - 5 Jun 2014 to 6 Jun 2014 (#2014-266)
> *************************************************************
>

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Sat Jun  7 17:32:34 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina L. Israeli)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 13:32:34 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?=D0=B4=D0=B0=D1=91=D1=88=D1=8C?=
In-Reply-To: <CALvZqsB9Be49Tbp=ktp6dGCM1xgoKRf-5osDXeB9mZFw4z4_XQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.7.JUN.2014.133234.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

No, because there must be an object of даёшь: даешь победу, даешь медали. But register-wise it’s below “Go Navy” or “Forza Italia”. 

Incidentally, at hockey games they chant “Шай-бу, шай-бу”, nothing with даёшь. It should enter as part of curriculum on Accusative case.

Даёшь is very much of an industrial and military slogan. “Даешь Перекоп!” Даешь Магнитку!”

Alina

On Jun 7, 2014, at 12:34 PM, Danine Falcon <falcon at USNA.EDU> wrote:

> So, would it be possible to use "ДАЁШЬ!" to translate the slogan, "Go Navy, Beat Army!" ?? And what would be the best choice of words for "beat," given the meaning of the word beat in this context?
> 
> Thanks for any help with this!
> 
> Danine Falcon
> 
> Danine Falcon
> Russian Language Adjunct Instructor
> United States Naval Academy
> Annapolis, MD 21402

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From jdingley43 at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jun  7 21:53:12 2014
From: jdingley43 at GMAIL.COM (John Dingley)
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 2014 14:53:12 -0700
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=B4=D0=B0=D1=91=D1=88=D1=8C?=
In-Reply-To: <57374CFA-FFC3-4E5F-A965-C84F7C7611C0@american.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.7.JUN.2014.145312.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Hi,

(шайба = disc, puck < German Scheibe)

I take it that when "шайбу, шайбу!" is chanted at a
hockey game it is short for something of the order
of "забейте шайбу!" ("score!") to account for the
accusative case?

John Dingley


On Sat, Jun 7, 2014 at 10:32 AM, Alina L. Israeli <aisrael at american.edu>
wrote:

> No, because there must be an object of даёшь: даешь победу, даешь медали.
> But register-wise it’s below “Go Navy” or “Forza Italia”.
>
> Incidentally, at hockey games they chant “Шай-бу, шай-бу”, nothing with
> даёшь. It should enter as part of curriculum on Accusative case.
>
> Даёшь is very much of an industrial and military slogan. “Даешь Перекоп!”
> Даешь Магнитку!”
>
> Alina
>
> On Jun 7, 2014, at 12:34 PM, Danine Falcon <falcon at USNA.EDU> wrote:
>
> > So, would it be possible to use "ДАЁШЬ!" to translate the slogan, "Go
> Navy, Beat Army!" ?? And what would be the best choice of words for "beat,"
> given the meaning of the word beat in this context?
> >
> > Thanks for any help with this!
> >
> > Danine Falcon
> >
> > Danine Falcon
> > Russian Language Adjunct Instructor
> > United States Naval Academy
> > Annapolis, MD 21402
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



-- 
http://members.shaw.ca/johndingley/home.html

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From davidagoldfarb at GMAIL.COM  Sun Jun  8 11:15:31 2014
From: davidagoldfarb at GMAIL.COM (David Goldfarb)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 07:15:31 -0400
Subject: Polish Studies Center in Drohobych requests letters of support
Message-ID: <SUN.8.JUN.2014.071531.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

The Polish Studies Center in Drohobycz, Ukraine, which functions as an
independent extension of Ivan Franko Pedagogical University and has
organized the Bruno Schulz Festival in Drohobycz for the past several years
is under urgent thread of closure and requests letters of support. The
university has cut all three full-time positions at the Center (occupied by
five staff members), effective July 16, but a committee will be meeting
July 1 to decide whether to continue to fund the Center for the next
academic year. Letters of support may be addressed to Rector Nadija Skotna
at:

Rektor prof. dr hab. Nadija Skotna
Państwowy Uniwersytet Pedagogiczny im. Iwana Franki w Drohobyczu
ul. Iwana Franki 24
82 100 Drohobycz
Ukraina

The organizers of the letter writing campaign recommend sending a
registered letter to Rector Nadija Skotna and PDF copies to the following
addresses in the rectorate:

snv at drohobych.net; kylpre at drohobych.net; chernetse at drohobych.net;
pmp at drohobych.net; administrator at drohobych.net

as well as to the Center: polcentrum at wp.pl

and to the Bruno Schulz Festival Society: grzeczuk at wp.pl

The following link explains the situation (in Polish, but Google translate
can give you the gist, if you don't read Polish).

http://www.brunoschulzfestival.org/index.php?tpr=news&id=96
David A. Goldfarb
academia.edu <https://independent.academia.edu/DavidGoldfarb>
facebook <https://www.facebook.com/DavidAGoldfarb>
http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Sun Jun  8 15:25:27 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 11:25:27 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?=D0=B4=D0=B0=D1=91=D1=88=D1=8C?=
In-Reply-To: <57374CFA-FFC3-4E5F-A965-C84F7C7611C0@american.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.8.JUN.2014.112527.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Fresh, yesterday's, quote:


Ну, знаете, вот мне пишут: «Даешь больше позитива и добрых эмоций на волнах Эха!» - пишет мне Виталий из Санкт-Петербурга. Ну, вот вам немножко позитива и добрых эмоций на волнах «Эха». (http://www.echo.msk.ru/programs/sut/1334700-echo/#element-text)


On Jun 7, 2014, at 1:32 PM, "Alina L. Israeli" <aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU> wrote:

> No, because there must be an object of даёшь: даешь победу, даешь медали. But register-wise it’s below “Go Navy” or “Forza Italia”. 
> 
> Incidentally, at hockey games they chant “Шай-бу, шай-бу”, nothing with даёшь. It should enter as part of curriculum on Accusative case.
> 
> Даёшь is very much of an industrial and military slogan. “Даешь Перекоп!” Даешь Магнитку!”
> 
> Alina
> 
> On Jun 7, 2014, at 12:34 PM, Danine Falcon <falcon at USNA.EDU> wrote:
> 
>> So, would it be possible to use "ДАЁШЬ!" to translate the slogan, "Go Navy, Beat Army!" ?? And what would be the best choice of words for "beat," given the meaning of the word beat in this context?
>> 
>> Thanks for any help with this!
>> 
>> Danine Falcon
>> 
>> Danine Falcon
>> Russian Language Adjunct Instructor
>> United States Naval Academy
>> Annapolis, MD 21402
> 
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From hem2134 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Mon Jun  9 02:42:41 2014
From: hem2134 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Holly E. Myers)
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2014 22:42:41 -0400
Subject: Call for Papers: Ulbandus. Hearing Texts.
Message-ID: <SUN.8.JUN.2014.224241.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Ulbandus XVI



Hearing Texts: The Auditory in Slavic Literatures



Deadline extended to August 31, 2014



ULBANDUS, the Slavic Review of Columbia University, is now requesting
submissions for its next issue, which will follow last year’s successful
issue on the visual (Ulbandus XV) with a focus on the *auditory *in Slavic
literatures. We welcome papers that together will reveal the current state
of scholarship on intersections between the auditory and the literary in
the field of Slavic studies. Possible topics include, but are not limited
to:



-intersections between literature and the musical arts, including
folk/traditional music, songs, chamber music, symphonies, ballet music,
opera, film soundtracks, and popular music

-depictions of music in Slavic literature

-interactions between Slavic literature and the study of acoustics

-the study of conversation and colloquial speech in Slavic languages

-the use and representation of colloquial speech in Slavic literature

-the relationship between spoken and literary language

-experiments with the sound of language and its role in literary thought

-considerations of sound and sound devices in literary translation

-the aural element in the performance of literature (public/private
readings, poetry recitations, drama, etc.)

-the transition from visual to aural when discussing and teaching
literature (literary salon*, *classroom, etc.)

-musical adaptations of literary (and non-literary) texts

-the advent of sound in Russian and Soviet cinema

-the role of sounds and music in Slavic cultures


In addition to scholarly articles, ULBANDUS encourages submission of
original poetry, fiction, translations, photography, and artwork. The
deadline for submissions is August 31, 2014.



Manuscripts should be in UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO FORMAT, double-spaced, and
not exceed 25 pages in length. Electronic submissions are strongly
encouraged and may be sent to hem2134 at columbia.edu in .doc or .rtf format.



Alternatively, authors may submit 2 hard copies of their paper to:


ULBANDUS

Attn: Holly Myers

Columbia University

1130 Amsterdam Avenue, Mail code 2839

New York, NY, 10027

USA



See the “How to Submit Work” link at the Ulbandus website
<http://www.columbia.edu/cu/slavic/etc/pubs/ulbandus/index.html> for
further details, including a style guide. For inquiries or questions,
please check our website, or write to hem2134 at columbia.edu for more
information.



Articles published in Ulbandus XVI will also appear on the JSTOR site.



ULBANDUS is a peer-reviewed journal. All articles and notes submitted for
publication are reviewed anonymously and should be prepared so that the
author's identity is not revealed either in the body of the manuscript or
in bibliographic references. Manuscripts are read by at least two
evaluators, who recommend acceptance or rejection.



We look forward to receiving your submissions!



Holly Myers

Editor, Ulbandus XVI

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From John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK  Mon Jun  9 12:26:38 2014
From: John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK (John Dunn)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 12:26:38 +0000
Subject: =?koi8-r?Q?=C4=C1=A3=DB=D8?=
In-Reply-To: <CAHtUfgzJHM01eNyyaDZirR-atreDiCn9=RzmSyLUZmprJ542QA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.9.JUN.2014.122638.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

On the one occasion when  I went to watch an ice-hockey match in the Soviet Union, the crowd expressed its displeasure at actions on the part of the referee by chanting 'Судью со льду [sic]', a chant that takes a non-native speaker of Russian some moments to decipher.  In this and in other contexts where the accusative is used (e.g. when ordering food or drink), it is possible to interpret the sentences as requiring the insertion of a verb (or in some instances one of several possible verbs) to make them complete, as John Dingley suggests below.  But is that how native speakers interpret them?  Or are they perceived as set expressions in which the use of the accusative no longer has any particular grammatical logic?

John Dunn.

________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of John Dingley [jdingley43 at GMAIL.COM]
Sent: 07 June 2014 23:53
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] даёшь

Hi,

(шайба = disc, puck < German Scheibe)

I take it that when "шайбу, шайбу!" is chanted at a
hockey game it is short for something of the order
of "забейте шайбу!" ("score!") to account for the
accusative case?

John Dingley




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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Mon Jun  9 12:48:20 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 08:48:20 -0400
Subject: =?KOI8-R?Q?=C4=C1=A3=DB=D8?=
In-Reply-To: <FF910572F43550428E2696B32534B715039E9839@CMS10-02.campus.gla.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <MON.9.JUN.2014.084820.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

John Dunn wrote:

> On the one occasion when I went to watch an ice-hockey match in the
> Soviet Union, the crowd expressed its displeasure at actions on the
> part of the referee by chanting 'Судью со льду [sic]', a chant that
> takes a non-native speaker of Russian some moments to decipher. In
> this and in other contexts where the accusative is used (e.g. when
> ordering food or drink), it is possible to interpret the sentences as
> requiring the insertion of a verb (or in some instances one of
> several possible verbs) to make them complete, as John Dingley
> suggests below. But is that how native speakers interpret them? Or
> are they perceived as set expressions in which the use of the
> accusative no longer has any particular grammatical logic?

I'll be interested to hear the natives' response on this. I've always 
imagined some minimal verb like "get" (the ref off the ice) "give" (me 
some vodka), etc. The precise verb isn't important; anything like деть 
or дать will do...

And since nouns must always have a case, what else would you use? 
Accusative seems closest to its role in the sentence (fragment)...

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From votruba+slangs at PITT.EDU  Mon Jun  9 13:34:14 2014
From: votruba+slangs at PITT.EDU (Martin Votruba)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 08:34:14 -0500
Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?=D0=B4=D0=B0=D1=91=D1=88=D1=8C?=
Message-ID: <MON.9.JUN.2014.083414.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

> Or are they perceived as set expressions in which the use of the accusative no longer has any particular grammatical logic?

Although it may often not be obvious to a native speaker what verb/predicate to supply, the accusatives do convey a sense of a "goal, target," in instances from what may appear as almost set phrases (dobru noc) through their more spontaneous uses.

E.g., Slovaks chanted "Slobodu, slobodu!" in the 1968 and 1989 pro-democracy demonstrations (the missing phrase could have been "we want xy" or "give us xy" or "we demand xy" or something else without it necessarily being clear what).

On the other hand, a (sad) Slovak joke circulating under communism had a geographically confused East German jump in the Danube in Bratislava thinking the other bank was Austria, swim the river, climb out on the opposite bank (still in Bratislava) and dance and shout "Sloboda, sloboda!" (in the Slovak rendition). It would not have made sense to use the accusative here -- he was not expressing a desire for freedom any more, he thought he was already in Austria and free, he merely celebrated the existence, presence of freedom.

Both the accusative and the nominative are "alive," communicative, in the two situations, switching them would kill the meaning of such cries, make them puzzling as would saying dobra noc ("what do you mean, is the night good?") instead of dobru noc ("I see, that's the intended goal [for me]").


Martin

votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Mon Jun  9 16:50:02 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 12:50:02 -0400
Subject: =?utf-8?Q?=D0=B4=D0=B0=D1=91=D1=88=D1=8C?=
In-Reply-To: <FF910572F43550428E2696B32534B715039E9839@CMS10-02.campus.gla.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <MON.9.JUN.2014.125002.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

That sounds strange to me, but then I don't attend any sporting events. The traditional one is судью на мыло. And apparently this generation of fans still uses this phrase http://russian.rt.com/inotv/2014-02-18/Sudyu-na-milo-Bolelshhiki-proveli

As for  "good night", it falls into the category of wishes with abstract nouns, so in Russian it will be genitive. Which is not quite the same as greetings (salutations), where we have petrified Nom/Acc forms. Interestingly enough, the new form of greeting follows the wish pattern: доброго времени суток, which came into existence due to the global internet use.


On Jun 9, 2014, at 8:26 AM, John Dunn <John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK> wrote:

> On the one occasion when  I went to watch an ice-hockey match in the Soviet Union, the crowd expressed its displeasure at actions on the part of the referee by chanting 'Судью со льду [sic]', a chant that takes a non-native speaker of Russian some moments to decipher.  In this and in other contexts where the accusative is used (e.g. when ordering food or drink), it is possible to interpret the sentences as requiring the insertion of a verb (or in some instances one of several possible verbs) to make them complete, as John Dingley suggests below.  But is that how native speakers interpret them?  Or are they perceived as set expressions in which the use of the accusative no longer has any particular grammatical logic?
> 
> John Dunn.


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From nafamiliant at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jun 10 01:05:46 2014
From: nafamiliant at GMAIL.COM (Nina Familiant)
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 20:05:46 -0500
Subject: A project idea for Advanced Russian class
Message-ID: <MON.9.JUN.2014.200546.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGS community,

If you teach an Advanced Russian class, your students might find this
project idea an efficient and entertaining learning tool.

http://www5.uwm.edu/news/2014/06/04/class-project-offers-365-days-of-russian/#.U5ZXXPldVeo

Have a nice summer!

Nina Familiant
University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Tue Jun 10 09:13:41 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 05:13:41 -0400
Subject: HUMOR: What Europe Will Look Like In 2035 If Russian Tabloids
 Have Their Way
Message-ID: <TUE.10.JUN.2014.051341.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

For our colleagues' amusement, since they can read the maps and know 
what's behind them:

"Two years ago, the Russian tabloid Express Gazeta published a series of 
maps depicting its vision of Europe 23 years hence. Given the recent 
tensions in Ukraine and elsewhere, the maps are proving disturbingly 
prescient a mere two years later — which hasn't gone unnoticed by 
Russian nationalists.

"According to Express Gazeta, the maps were compiled after analyzing 
'open source' information from the CIA, GRU (Russian intelligence), and 
a number of research institutes, along with Alvin Toffler, Zbigniew 
Brzezinski and Samuel Huntington. It's a dubious claim at best.

"Not surprisingly, the maps are, in the words of Foreign Policy's Frank 
Jacobs, 'a cartographic illustration of Russian wish fulfillment, 
reflecting the hopes and frustrations of at least a small segment of 
Russian public opinion.' And indeed, though the maps were compiled in 
2012, a nationalist Russian blog recently republished them with renewed 
enthusiasm given the events in Ukraine."

Full article, with links to the originals:

<http://io9.com/what-europe-will-look-like-in-2035-if-russian-tabloids-1587988556>

I trust all will exercise commendable restraint and not turn this into a 
sandbox spat. I post it only for its entertainment value.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU  Wed Jun 11 01:26:10 2014
From: msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU (Mila Saskova-Pierce)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 01:26:10 +0000
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.012610.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce

Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
Department of Modern Languages
Other Languages Section Head
1219 Oldfather Hall
Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
Tel:  402 472 1336


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From annagiust at TELETU.IT  Wed Jun 11 06:16:03 2014
From: annagiust at TELETU.IT (Anna Giust)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:16:03 +0200
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <12bc2c82db00443a81a0128c83139d49@BY2PR08MB457.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.081603.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

What about Glinka on the Russian side?

Anna Giust


Il giorno 11/giu/2014, alle ore 03:26, Mila Saskova-Pierce ha scritto:

> Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>  
> Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
> Department of Modern Languages
> Other Languages Section Head
> 1219 Oldfather Hall
> Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
> Tel:  402 472 1336
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------


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From ieubanks at PUSHKINIANA.ORG  Wed Jun 11 09:13:10 2014
From: ieubanks at PUSHKINIANA.ORG (Ivan S. Eubanks)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:13:10 +0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <98042875-DA92-49A5-A744-6A196079AF8D@teletu.it>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.131310.0400.>

Andrei & Arseny Tarkovsky (Czech)

Jachym, Filip & Josef Topol (Czech)

Do the Romanovs count for Russia?

Ivan S. Eubanks, Ph. D.
Editor, Pushkin Review
www.pushkiniana.org
Director, Center for Writing and Communication
New Economic School, Moscow
www.nes.ru

On 11/06/14 10:16, Anna Giust wrote:
> What about Glinka on the Russian side?
>
> Anna Giust
>
>
> Il giorno 11/giu/2014, alle ore 03:26, Mila Saskova-Pierce ha scritto:
>
>> Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally 
>> productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, 
>> Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, 
>> and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could 
>> suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be 
>> interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>> Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
>> Department of Modern Languages
>> Other Languages Section Head
>> 1219 Oldfather Hall
>> Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
>> Tel:  402 472 1336
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
>> subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web 
>> Interface 
>> at:http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription 
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: 
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 


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From 0000000c58da89a3-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UA.EDU  Wed Jun 11 09:12:09 2014
From: 0000000c58da89a3-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UA.EDU (Veronika Tuckerova)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 10:12:09 +0100
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <12bc2c82db00443a81a0128c83139d49@BY2PR08MB457.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.101209.0100.VTUCKEROVA@YAHOO.COM>

Havel family?



On Tuesday, 10 June 2014, 21:27, Mila Saskova-Pierce <msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU> wrote:
 


 
Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
 
Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
Department of Modern Languages
Other Languages Section Head
1219 Oldfather Hall
Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
Tel:  402 472 1336
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From ieubanks at PUSHKINIANA.ORG  Wed Jun 11 10:36:25 2014
From: ieubanks at PUSHKINIANA.ORG (Ivan S. Eubanks)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 14:36:25 +0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <98042875-DA92-49A5-A744-6A196079AF8D@teletu.it>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.143625.0400.>

PS

I forgot to mention Dziga Vertov (pseudonym for D. Kaufman), Mikhail 
Kaufman, and Elizaveta Svilova (married to D. Kaufman).

And having thought of this example, I've now some questions.  The 
Kaufman brothers were born in Poland, but they spent their adult lives 
living and working in the USSR, in Russia and Ukraine.  So we can't say 
they're Czech, but should they join the Russian list?

Also, is the list supposed to include culturally productive people who 
share genetic material, or culturally productive people who together 
populate a social institution called "family?"  In other words, does E. 
Svilova, who was a great film editor, count as a Kaufman or a Svilova? 
Does Sophia Tolstaya count as a Tolstoy or a Behrs? (And back to my 
previous tongue-in-cheek comment, does Catherine II count as a Romanov 
or a von Anhalt-Zerbst-Dornburg?)

If we're counting spouses as members of the same family, then Zinaida 
Gippius and Dmitri Merezhkovsky should go on this list for Russia (but 
under which surname?).  As should, of course, Nadezhda and Osip 
Mandelstam and Lilia and Osip Brik.

And what of Liubov' Mendeleeva?  A mark for Mendeleev or Blok?

On that subject, we could include Andrei Bely (pseudonym for Boris 
Bugaev) and his father, Nikolai Bugaev.

Let's not forget the Bulgakovs.

Some more filmmakers:  Sergei Bondarchuk, Fedor Bondarchuk, Natalya 
Bondarchuk.

Sergei Bodrov, Sergei Bodrov Jr.

As for infamous, some of the Tolstoys should count (I'm thinking of Ivan 
the American), and do the Ul'ianov brothers count?  And if we're 
considering family a social institution instead of shared genetic 
material, then under the infamous we could perhaps list the Baron van 
Heeckeren and his adopted son Georges-Charles de Heeckeren d'Anthes, 
although "culturally destructive" might apply better to the latter than 
"culturally productive."

Ivan S. Eubanks, Ph. D.
Editor, Pushkin Review
www.pushkiniana.org
Director, Center for Writing and Communication
New Economic School, Moscow
www.nes.ru

On 11/06/14 10:16, Anna Giust wrote:
> What about Glinka on the Russian side?
>
> Anna Giust
>
>
> Il giorno 11/giu/2014, alle ore 03:26, Mila Saskova-Pierce ha scritto:
>
>> Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally 
>> productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, 
>> Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, 
>> and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could 
>> suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be 
>> interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>> Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
>> Department of Modern Languages
>> Other Languages Section Head
>> 1219 Oldfather Hall
>> Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
>> Tel:  402 472 1336
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
>> subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web 
>> Interface 
>> at:http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription 
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: 
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 


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From msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU  Wed Jun 11 12:37:49 2014
From: msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU (Mila Saskova-Pierce)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:37:49 +0000
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <53983129.4000906@pushkiniana.org>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.123749.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangsers, thank you for the thoughtful answers to my question concerning Russian culturally productive families.  I will make a list of them and post it later. And of course the list of the Czech families as well. (Havel family included!)
And yes, I am looking for genetic as well as marriage formed ties.  After all family is the basic platform for emerging creativity as well as collaborative cultural production.  I plan to use this material for a unit on family (in a composition and conversation class), where students construct the family trees of famous Russian families  and make a tally of their accomplishments.

Gratefully Mila S-P

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ivan S. Eubanks
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 5:36 AM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories

PS

I forgot to mention Dziga Vertov (pseudonym for D. Kaufman), Mikhail Kaufman, and Elizaveta Svilova (married to D. Kaufman).

And having thought of this example, I've now some questions.  The Kaufman brothers were born in Poland, but they spent their adult lives living and working in the USSR, in Russia and Ukraine.  So we can't say they're Czech, but should they join the Russian list?

Also, is the list supposed to include culturally productive people who share genetic material, or culturally productive people who together populate a social institution called "family?"  In other words, does E. Svilova, who was a great film editor, count as a Kaufman or a Svilova? Does Sophia Tolstaya count as a Tolstoy or a Behrs? (And back to my previous tongue-in-cheek comment, does Catherine II count as a Romanov or a von Anhalt-Zerbst-Dornburg?)

If we're counting spouses as members of the same family, then Zinaida Gippius and Dmitri Merezhkovsky should go on this list for Russia (but under which surname?).  As should, of course, Nadezhda and Osip Mandelstam and Lilia and Osip Brik.

And what of Liubov' Mendeleeva?  A mark for Mendeleev or Blok?

On that subject, we could include Andrei Bely (pseudonym for Boris Bugaev) and his father, Nikolai Bugaev.

Let's not forget the Bulgakovs.

Some more filmmakers:  Sergei Bondarchuk, Fedor Bondarchuk, Natalya Bondarchuk.

Sergei Bodrov, Sergei Bodrov Jr.

As for infamous, some of the Tolstoys should count (I'm thinking of Ivan the American), and do the Ul'ianov brothers count?  And if we're considering family a social institution instead of shared genetic material, then under the infamous we could perhaps list the Baron van Heeckeren and his adopted son Georges-Charles de Heeckeren d'Anthes, although "culturally destructive" might apply better to the latter than "culturally productive."


Ivan S. Eubanks, Ph. D.

Editor, Pushkin Review

www.pushkiniana.org<http://www.pushkiniana.org>

Director, Center for Writing and Communication

New Economic School, Moscow

www.nes.ru<http://www.nes.ru>
On 11/06/14 10:16, Anna Giust wrote:
What about Glinka on the Russian side?

Anna Giust


Il giorno 11/giu/2014, alle ore 03:26, Mila Saskova-Pierce ha scritto:


Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce

Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
Department of Modern Languages
Other Languages Section Head
1219 Oldfather Hall
Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
Tel:  402 472 1336

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From O.F.Boele at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL  Wed Jun 11 13:18:47 2014
From: O.F.Boele at HUM.LEIDENUNIV.NL (Boele, O.F.)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 13:18:47 +0000
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <98042875-DA92-49A5-A744-6A196079AF8D@teletu.it>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.131847.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

The five brothers Bestuzhev, probaly best known for their share in the Decembrists rising , come to mind:  Alexander, Pavel, Nikolai, Mikhail, Petr. Alexander (who wrote underthe pseudonym of Marlinskii) was the most productive of them, but they were all very active writing, painting, writing music etc.

Otto Boele


Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce

Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
Department of Modern Languages
Other Languages Section Head
1219 Oldfather Hall
Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
Tel:  402 472 1336

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From eugenia.kelbert at YALE.EDU  Wed Jun 11 13:51:03 2014
From: eugenia.kelbert at YALE.EDU (Eugenia Kelbert)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:51:03 +0200
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <916102AE0E65AE4AB569D14DB26378B82A8E6A4D@SPMXM01.VUW.leidenuniv.nl>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.155103.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

The Brik family should also include Elsa Triolet...

Another family that comes to mind is Skriabin's, with not only the composer
but also Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh, his nephew. He describes his
family and education in some detail in "Bez zapisok" and it really does
seem based on the interview that there was something in the family, the way
they approached their children's upbringing, certain values etc.

And, I suppose, the Burjiuk brothers should be in the list too.

Olga Demidova also presented a paper on 18th century women writers in
Russia at last week's conference in Uppsala, which had plenty of examples
of family ties between women writers and translators and their more
celebrated male relatives who introduced them into the literary circles of
the time.

Eugenia Kelbert


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 3:18 PM, Boele, O.F. <O.F.Boele at hum.leidenuniv.nl>
wrote:

>  The five brothers Bestuzhev, probaly best known for their share in the
> Decembrists rising , come to mind:  Alexander, Pavel, Nikolai, Mikhail,
> Petr. Alexander (who wrote underthe pseudonym of Marlinskii) was the most
> productive of them, but they were all very active writing, painting,
> writing music etc.
>
>
>
> Otto Boele
>
>
>
>   Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally
> productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov,
> Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the
> Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you
> know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you
> very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>
>
>
> Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
>
> Department of Modern Languages
>
> Other Languages Section Head
>
> 1219 Oldfather Hall
>
> Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
>
> Tel:  402 472 1336
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From vprolow at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 11 15:35:49 2014
From: vprolow at GMAIL.COM (Vanessa Prolow)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 19:35:49 +0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <12bc2c82db00443a81a0128c83139d49@BY2PR08MB457.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.193549.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

The Benois family

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 11, 2014, at 5:26, Mila Saskova-Pierce <msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU> wrote:
> 
> Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>  
> Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
> Department of Modern Languages
> Other Languages Section Head
> 1219 Oldfather Hall
> Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
> Tel:  402 472 1336
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU  Wed Jun 11 15:57:12 2014
From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (E Wayles Browne)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:57:12 +0000
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <98042875-DA92-49A5-A744-6A196079AF8D@teletu.it>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.155712.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

V. V. Nabokov, father V. D. Nabokov, wife Vera, son Dmitri Nabokov, cousin Nicolas Nabokov

Nicholas Roerich/Nikolaj Rerix, wife Helena Roerich/Elena I. née Shaposhnikova, sons Svetoslav Roerich
 and George de Roerich/Jurij Nikolaevich Rerix



--
Wayles Browne, Prof. of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics
Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)
e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu



Mila Saskova-Pierce ha scritto:

Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce

Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
Department of Modern Languages
Other Languages Section Head
1219 Oldfather Hall
Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
Tel:  402 472 1336
?

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From bowrudder at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 11 15:57:55 2014
From: bowrudder at GMAIL.COM (Charles Mills)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 08:57:55 -0700
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <95F904BC-EA58-4E4D-9298-90D487CED2AE@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.085755.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Miloš Forman & bratři Formanové


On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Vanessa Prolow <vprolow at gmail.com> wrote:

> The Benois family
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 11, 2014, at 5:26, Mila Saskova-Pierce <msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU>
> wrote:
>
>  Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally
> productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov,
> Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the
> Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you
> know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you
> very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>
>
>
> Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
>
> Department of Modern Languages
>
> Other Languages Section Head
>
> 1219 Oldfather Hall
>
> Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
>
> Tel:  402 472 1336
>
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From culik at BLISTY.CZ  Wed Jun 11 16:03:08 2014
From: culik at BLISTY.CZ (Jan Culik)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 18:03:08 +0200
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <CAJr9ufpHWaoBpVqJJBk-8qRtT3M0OYTPYUyyKm=sMFVkfG58Pg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.180308.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Many people especially in the Czech film industry.

Jiřina Bohdalová, Simona Stašová (daughter)

František Filipovský, Pavlína Filipovská

Vít Klusák, Filip Remunda

TV Vladimír Železný (TV tycoon), his son the TV presenter


On 06/11/2014 05:57 PM, Charles Mills wrote:
> Miloš Forman & bratři Formanové
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Vanessa Prolow <vprolow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Benois family
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 11, 2014, at 5:26, Mila Saskova-Pierce <msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU>
>> wrote:
>>
>>   Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally
>> productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov,
>> Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the
>> Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you
>> know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you
>> very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
>>
>> Department of Modern Languages
>>
>> Other Languages Section Head
>>
>> 1219 Oldfather Hall
>>
>> Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
>>
>> Tel:  402 472 1336
>>
>>
>>   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>    options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                          http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From COPEL at ECU.EDU  Wed Jun 11 21:22:45 2014
From: COPEL at ECU.EDU (Cope, Lida)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 21:22:45 +0000
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <53987DBC.5060208@blisty.cz>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.212245.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Svatava Pirkova Jakobson 
Roman Jakobson


________________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Jan Culik [culik at BLISTY.CZ]
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 12:03 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories

Many people especially in the Czech film industry.

Jiřina Bohdalová, Simona Stašová (daughter)

František Filipovský, Pavlína Filipovská

Vít Klusák, Filip Remunda

TV Vladimír Železný (TV tycoon), his son the TV presenter


On 06/11/2014 05:57 PM, Charles Mills wrote:
> Miloš Forman & bratři Formanové
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Vanessa Prolow <vprolow at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Benois family
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jun 11, 2014, at 5:26, Mila Saskova-Pierce <msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU>
>> wrote:
>>
>>   Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally
>> productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov,
>> Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the
>> Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you
>> know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you
>> very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>>
>>
>>
>> Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
>>
>> Department of Modern Languages
>>
>> Other Languages Section Head
>>
>> 1219 Oldfather Hall
>>
>> Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
>>
>> Tel:  402 472 1336
>>
>>
>>   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>    options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                          http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU  Thu Jun 12 00:16:02 2014
From: rar at SLAVIC.UMASS.EDU (Robert A. Rothstein)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 20:16:02 -0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <9AA3EFA68D8D494B9BD57B15C81A33DCA5FD3973@Curly.intra.ecu.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.201602.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

On 6/11/2014 5:22 PM, Cope, Lida wrote:
   
> Svatava Pirkova Jakobson
> Roman Jakobson

Also Sergius Osipovich Yakobson and Helen Bates-Yakobson.

Bob Rothstein


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From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU  Thu Jun 12 01:00:31 2014
From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (E Wayles Browne)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 01:00:31 +0000
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
 (2)
In-Reply-To: <9AA3EFA68D8D494B9BD57B15C81A33DCA5FD3973@Curly.intra.ecu.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.010031.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Elsa Triolet and Lili Brik, sisters

Leonid Osipovich Pasternak, his children Josephine Pasternak, Lydia Pasternak Slater and Boris Leonidovich Pasternak, Boris's son Evgenij Borisovich Pasternak, cousin Ol'ga Freidenberg

Nikolaj Gumilëv, Anna Axmatova, their son Lev Gumilëv

Yuri Lotman, Zara Mints, their son Mihhail Lotman

--
Wayles Browne, Prof. of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics
Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)
e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu 
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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Thu Jun 12 01:52:01 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 21:52:01 -0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
 (2)
In-Reply-To: <1402534833164.87301@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.215201.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

And Yuri Lotman's sister Lidia. The lore has it that the dissertation defenses for the wife and the sister were scheduled on the same day, so Lotman could not come to Leningrad for his sister's defense. I don't know if it was indeed so, or just an urban legend.

One of the biggest families is the Dolinins bеginning with Аркадий Семенович http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Долинин,_Аркадий_Семёнович, and then children (son http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Долинин,_Константин_Аркадьевич, daughter http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Долинина,_Анна_Аркадьевна), grandchildren (Alexandre is in Wisconsin) and daughters-in-law (Natalia and Inga).


This links us nicely to Gukovsky, whose daughter was  Наталья Долинина (K. Dolinin's wife, or one of his wives).
 

One of my favorite is Римский-Корсаков/Штейнберг, probably because I met so many members of the family, including R-K's daughter; of course she was very old, and I was very young then. She married Максимилиан Штейнберг. Brushtein in her "Дорога уходит в даль" depicted him as a little boy, her childhood friend. Their daughter, that is Max's and Nadezhda's R-K, also Надежда, like her mother, was my mother's professor of French in LGU (that's how I managed to meet Nadezhda the elder). Their son Sergej was an artist (I never met him, but met his widow, also an artist, and their son Mark): http://ru.rodovid.org/wk/Запись:737824


Alina

On Jun 11, 2014, at 9:00 PM, E Wayles Browne <ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU> wrote:
> 
> 
> Yuri Lotman, Zara Mints, their son Mihhail Lotman
> 
> --
> Wayles Browne, Prof. of Linguistics
> Department of Linguistics
> Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
> Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.
> 
> tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
> fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)
> e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                        http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
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From oprokop at TEMPLE.EDU  Thu Jun 12 02:24:42 2014
From: oprokop at TEMPLE.EDU (Olia Prokopenko)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 22:24:42 -0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
 (2)
In-Reply-To: <1402534833164.87301@cornell.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.222442.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Offhand -
The Solovyovs: father Sergey (historian); sons Vladimir (philosopher) and
Vsevolod (writer); related to Grigoriy/Hryhorii Skovoroda (philosopher), on
their mother's side.
The Korvin-Krukovsky sisters: Sofia Kovalevskaya (mathematician), Anne
Jaclard (revolutionary and early feminist)
The Rimsky-Korsakov brothers: Voin (explorer), Nikolai (composer);
Maximilian Steinberg (composer) was married to  Nikolai's daughter.
I believe somebody mentioned the Benois family of architects and painters
(Benois, Lanceray, Serebriakov, Glazunov, etc.)




On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 9:00 PM, E Wayles Browne <ewb2 at cornell.edu> wrote:

> Elsa Triolet and Lili Brik, sisters
>
> Leonid Osipovich Pasternak, his children Josephine Pasternak, Lydia
> Pasternak Slater and Boris Leonidovich Pasternak, Boris's son Evgenij
> Borisovich Pasternak, cousin Ol'ga Freidenberg
>
> Nikolaj Gumilëv, Anna Axmatova, their son Lev Gumilëv
>
> Yuri Lotman, Zara Mints, their son Mihhail Lotman
>
> --
> Wayles Browne, Prof. of Linguistics
> Department of Linguistics
> Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
> Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.
>
> tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
> fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)
> e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



-- 

Olia Prokopenko,
Instructor, Russian Program Coordinator and Adviser

Anderson Hall 551
FGIS, Temple University,
1114 W.Berks St.
Philadelphia, PA 19122
tel. (215)-204-1768
oprokop at temple.edu

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From dassia2 at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 12 02:50:54 2014
From: dassia2 at GMAIL.COM (Dassia Posner)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 21:50:54 -0500
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
 (2)
In-Reply-To: <CAM0zRy87mXNpmN7p9VDAVt6zR8FSk0Tv7MgQqVQjAHCs3XjJSg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.215054.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

There are the Chaliapins:
Fedor Ivanovich Chaliapin, the singer
* His older son Boris, a visual artist (show earlier this year of his TIME
covers at the National Portrait Gallery in D.C.:
http://www.si.edu/Exhibitions/Details/Mr-TIME-Portraits-by-Boris-Chaliapin-4
927)
* His younger son Fedor, a Hollywood actor (THE NAME OF THE ROSE and
MOONSTRUCK)
* His eldest daughter Irina, an actress who stayed in Moscow when the rest
of the family emigrated
* Other daughters: Tania worked for Voice of America, and Lydia taught voice
classes.
Chaliapin came from peasant stock, so we can¹t trace illustrious family
members in the other directionŠ
In theatre, the Komissarzhevsky family also comes to mind.  And Anton and
Mikhail Chekhov.
Best,
Dassia

--- 
Dassia N. Posner, Ph.D
Assistant Professor, Department of Theatre
Affiliated faculty, Slavic Languages and Literatures
Northwestern University
Email: d-posner at northwestern.edu
Address: Theatre and Interpretation Center; 1949 Campus Drive # 205;
Evanston, IL 60208


From:  Olia Prokopenko <oprokop at TEMPLE.EDU>
Reply-To:  "SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list"
<SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Date:  Wednesday, June 11, 2014 at 9:24 PM
To:  <SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject:  Re: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech
histories (2)

Offhand - 
The Solovyovs: father Sergey (historian); sons Vladimir (philosopher) and
Vsevolod (writer); related to Grigoriy/Hryhorii Skovoroda (philosopher), on
their mother's side.
The Korvin-Krukovsky sisters: Sofia Kovalevskaya (mathematician), Anne
Jaclard (revolutionary and early feminist)
The Rimsky-Korsakov brothers: Voin (explorer), Nikolai (composer);
Maximilian Steinberg (composer) was married to  Nikolai's daughter.
I believe somebody mentioned the Benois family of architects and painters
(Benois, Lanceray, Serebriakov, Glazunov, etc.)




On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 9:00 PM, E Wayles Browne <ewb2 at cornell.edu> wrote:
> Elsa Triolet and Lili Brik, sisters
> 
> Leonid Osipovich Pasternak, his children Josephine Pasternak, Lydia Pasternak
> Slater and Boris Leonidovich Pasternak, Boris's son Evgenij Borisovich
> Pasternak, cousin Ol'ga Freidenberg
> 
> Nikolaj Gumilëv, Anna Axmatova, their son Lev Gumilëv
> 
> Yuri Lotman, Zara Mints, their son Mihhail Lotman
> 
> --
> Wayles Browne, Prof. of Linguistics
> Department of Linguistics
> Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
> Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.
> 
> tel. 607-255-0712 <tel:607-255-0712>  (o), 607-273-3009 <tel:607-273-3009>
> (h)
> fax 607-255-2044 <tel:607-255-2044>  (write FOR W. BROWNE)
> e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------



-- 

Olia Prokopenko,
Instructor, Russian Program Coordinator and Adviser

Anderson Hall 551
FGIS, Temple University,
1114 W.Berks St.
Philadelphia, PA 19122
tel. (215)-204-1768
oprokop at temple.edu
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From AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU  Thu Jun 12 03:39:36 2014
From: AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU (Anthony Anemone)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 07:39:36 +0400
Subject: Translation question?
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.073936.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Colleagues,

Is there a standard translation of   "Академия Искусствознания"?  Art
History doesn't seem right since you could study to become a film director
there. . .  "Art Studies" is closer but that term doesn't seem to be used
much in (American) English. . .  is that the best we have?  or am I missing
something?

Thanks!

Tony

-- 
Tony Anemone
Associate Professor
The New School
72 Fifth Ave, 702
New York, NY 10011

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From bigjim at U.WASHINGTON.EDU  Thu Jun 12 04:11:15 2014
From: bigjim at U.WASHINGTON.EDU (bigjim at U.WASHINGTON.EDU)
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 21:11:15 -0700
Subject: Translation question?
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt-N_v_wj+rB8S5vus++PnLoPjKZ2+T+=opTuSomGcw47w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.11.JUN.2014.211115.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

How about Academy of Fine Arts?
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
  James Augerot, Professor Emeritus
  Slavic Languages and Literatures 353580
  University of Washington, Seattle 98195
  Board Member Seattle American Romanian Cultural Society
-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-

On Thu, 12 Jun 2014, Anthony Anemone wrote:

|Colleagues,  
|Is there a standard translation of   "Академия Искусствознания"?  Art History doesn't seem
|right since you could study to become a film director there. . .  "Art Studies" is closer
|but that term doesn't seem to be used much in (American) English. . .  is that the best we
|have?  or am I missing something?
|Thanks!
|
|Tony
|
|--
|Tony AnemoneAssociate Professor
|The New School
|72 Fifth Ave, 702
|New York, NY 10011
|
|------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web
|browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and
|bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
|-------------------------------------------------------------------------
|

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Thu Jun 12 04:18:02 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 00:18:02 -0400
Subject: Translation question?
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt-N_v_wj+rB8S5vus++PnLoPjKZ2+T+=opTuSomGcw47w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.001802.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Anthony Anemone wrote:

> Colleagues,
>
> Is there a standard translation of   "Академия Искусствознания"?  Art
> History doesn't seem right since you could study to become a film
> director there. . .  "Art Studies" is closer but that term doesn't seem
> to be used much in (American) English. . .  is that the best we have?
> or am I missing something?

Several dictionaries equate "искусствознание" to "искусствоведение," if 
that helps. But you're right to be cautious about "art" sg. because most 
Americans, absent further context, will take it narrowly to mean 
"graphic arts" and need to be cued to broaden it. That's why we have 
elaborate phrasings like "visual and performing arts."

See the first three graphs here:
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_art>

See also this page:
<http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%98%D1%81%D0%BA%D1%83%D1%81%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%B5>
or
<http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Искусствоведение>

for which the corresponding English page is
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_art>

Would "Academy of Fine Arts" be too broad for your taste?

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From nuckols at HOTMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 12 05:16:11 2014
From: nuckols at HOTMAIL.COM (Mark Nuckols)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 01:16:11 -0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <12bc2c82db00443a81a0128c83139d49@BY2PR08MB457.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.011611.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

A couple of sets of (contemporary) Czech relatives:
 
1) Jan (son, director) and Zdeněk (father, actor, script writer) Svěrák, best known for their collaboration on Kolya.
 
2) Singer and actress Helena Vondráčková (probably the most famous of this family), whose brother Jiří Vondráček is a musician, composer, actor and director. He and his lyricist wife, Hana Sorrosová, have co-written any number of songs, including some for their daughter, singer-actress Lucie Vondráčková. (Lucie, for what it's worth, is married to NHL player Tomáš Plekanec.)
 
Best of luck!
 
Mark Nuckols
 
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2014 01:26:10 +0000
From: msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU









Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you
 have any other names you could suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
 
Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
Department of Modern Languages
Other Languages Section Head
1219 Oldfather Hall
Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
Tel:  402 472 1336
 



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From hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET  Thu Jun 12 06:27:34 2014
From: hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET (Hugh Olmsted)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 06:27:34 +0000
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <12bc2c82db00443a81a0128c83139d49@BY2PR08MB457.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.062734.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

A few more relatives and families: 

Ivan Vladimirovich Tsvetaev, (Philologist, Art Scholar, Museum Director, 1847-1913), and his daughters Marina Tsvetaeva (Poet, 1892-1941) and Anastasiia Tsvetaeva (Writer, 1894-1993). 


The Chukovskiis: Kornei Ivanovich (1882-1969) and his children Nikolai Korneevich (1904-1969) and Lidiia Korneevna (1907-1996), as well as Lidiia's daughter Elena Tsezarevna (1931- ). 

Evgeniia Solomonovna Ginzburg (1904-1977) and her son Vasilii Pavlovich Aksenov (1932-2009). 

The writer Vsevolod Viacheslavovich Ivanov (1866-1946) and his son, the linguist Viacheslav Vsevolodovch (1929- ). 

Sergei Esenin , Poet (1895-1925), his wife the poet Nadezhda Davydovna Vol’pina (1900-1998), together with their son, the Philosopher, Mathematician, Poet Aleksandr Sergeevich Esenin-Volpin, (1924- ). 

Father Georgii Vasil’evich Florovskii, Orthodox Scholar-Theologian (1893-1979) and his brother Antonii Vasil ʹ evich Florovskii, Church Historian (1884-1968). 
Hugh Olmsted 

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mila Saskova-Pierce" <msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU> 
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:26:10 PM 
Subject: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories 



Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the Czech side. Do you have any other names you could suggest? And if you know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you very much. Mila Saskova-Pierce 



Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce 

Department of Modern Languages 

Other Languages Section Head 

1219 Oldfather Hall 

Lincoln, NE 68588-0315 

Tel: 402 472 1336 


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From asured at VERIZON.NET  Thu Jun 12 08:54:48 2014
From: asured at VERIZON.NET (Steve Marder)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 04:54:48 -0400
Subject: Translation question?
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.01.1406112111150.9075@hymn02.u.washington.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.045448.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

But wouldn’t “Academy of Fine Arts” be “Академия изящных искусств”?



>How about Academy of Fine Arts?
>-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
>  James Augerot, Professor Emeritus
>  Slavic Languages and Literatures 353580
>  University of Washington, Seattle 98195
>  Board Member Seattle American Romanian Cultural Society
>-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
>
>On Thu, 12 Jun 2014, Anthony Anemone wrote:
>
>|Colleagues,  
>|Is there a standard translation of   "Академия Искусствознания"?  Art
>History doesn't seem
>|right since you could study to become a film director there. . .  "Art
>Studies" is closer
>|but that term doesn't seem to be used much in (American) English. . .
>is that the best we
>|have?  or am I missing something?
>|Thanks!
>|
>|Tony
>|
>|--
>|Tony AnemoneAssociate Professor
>|The New School
>|72 Fifth Ave, 702
>|New York, NY 10011
>|
>|-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web
>|browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and
>more. Visit and
>|bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>|-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>|
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                        http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
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From asured at VERIZON.NET  Thu Jun 12 08:59:00 2014
From: asured at VERIZON.NET (Steve Marder)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 04:59:00 -0400
Subject: Translation question?
In-Reply-To: <CFBEE2D8.24AA6%asured@verizon.net>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.045900.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Or: “Aкадемия изобразительных искусств”?


>But wouldn’t “Academy of Fine Arts” be “Академия изящных искусств”?
>
>
>
>>How about Academy of Fine Arts?
>>-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
>>  James Augerot, Professor Emeritus
>>  Slavic Languages and Literatures 353580
>>  University of Washington, Seattle 98195
>>  Board Member Seattle American Romanian Cultural Society
>>-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-
>>
>>On Thu, 12 Jun 2014, Anthony Anemone wrote:
>>
>>|Colleagues,  
>>|Is there a standard translation of   "Академия Искусствознания"?  Art
>>History doesn't seem
>>|right since you could study to become a film director there. . .  "Art
>>Studies" is closer
>>|but that term doesn't seem to be used much in (American) English. . .
>>is that the best we
>>|have?  or am I missing something?
>>|Thanks!
>>|
>>|Tony
>>|
>>|--
>>|Tony AnemoneAssociate Professor
>>|The New School
>>|72 Fifth Ave, 702
>>|New York, NY 10011
>>|
>>|------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-
>> Use your web
>>|browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and
>>more. Visit and
>>|bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>>|------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>-
>>|
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                        http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
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From colkitto at ROGERS.COM  Thu Jun 12 10:02:53 2014
From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (Robert Orr)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 06:02:53 -0400
Subject: Translation question?
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt-N_v_wj+rB8S5vus++PnLoPjKZ2+T+=opTuSomGcw47w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.060253.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

In response to Anthony's original suggestion, what about something like "Art and Film Studies"?

Robert Orr 

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 11, 2014, at 11:39 PM, Anthony Anemone <AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU> wrote:
> 
> Colleagues,  
> 
> Is there a standard translation of   "Академия Искусствознания"?  Art History doesn't seem right since you could study to become a film director there. . .  "Art Studies" is closer but that term doesn't seem to be used much in (American) English. . .  is that the best we have?  or am I missing something?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Tony
> 
> -- 
> Tony Anemone
> Associate Professor
> The New School
> 72 Fifth Ave, 702
> New York, NY 10011
> 
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From vprolow at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 12 10:09:39 2014
From: vprolow at GMAIL.COM (Vanessa Prolow)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:09:39 +0400
Subject: Translation question?
In-Reply-To: <DB956E63-2F59-4D5A-9F40-7F847FD03D75@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.140939.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Academy of Fine Arts sounds like it would be an art school, not a research
academy, and would lead to confusion with the Academy of Arts.

Искусствознание includes all forms of art. This program at a college in
North Carolina would support just using "art studies":
http://ids.chass.ncsu.edu/arts/

This is a contemporary institute of искусствознание, and to my
understanding of what they do, it would point to "art and cultural studies"
as another possibility: http://sias.ru/institute/


On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:02 PM, Robert Orr <colkitto at rogers.com> wrote:

> In response to Anthony's original suggestion, what about something like
> "Art and Film Studies"?
>
> Robert Orr
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jun 11, 2014, at 11:39 PM, Anthony Anemone <AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU>
> wrote:
>
> Colleagues,
>
> Is there a standard translation of   "Академия Искусствознания"?  Art
> History doesn't seem right since you could study to become a film director
> there. . .  "Art Studies" is closer but that term doesn't seem to be used
> much in (American) English. . .  is that the best we have?  or am I missing
> something?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tony
>
> --
> Tony Anemone
> Associate Professor
> The New School
> 72 Fifth Ave, 702
> New York, NY 10011
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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>



-- 
Vanessa Prolow

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From margaret.samu at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 12 14:16:24 2014
From: margaret.samu at GMAIL.COM (Margaret Samu)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 10:16:24 -0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <2044212913.5511140.1402554454564.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.101624.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

In the world of visual arts, one of the first Russian families to come to
mind is the Makovskii family.

Egor Ivanovich Makovskii, art lover and print collector, active in the
Moskovskoe khudozhestvennoe obshchestvo in 1833 and one of the founders of
the Moskovskoe Uchilishshe zhivopisi i vaianiia in 1843, where his sons
studied. His phenomenal collection of prints by Rembrandt and others was
acquired by Dmitrii Rovinskii and is now in the Hermitage.

His elder son, painter Konstantin Egorovich Makovskii, was the favorite of
St. Petersburg high society at the end of the 19th century. Even though he
participated in the bunt chetyrnadtsati in 1863, he became a Salon painter
rather than a Realist, and produced large-scale historical genre paintings
(Hillwood's Boyar Wedding Feast, for example) and endless "Russian
beauties" and boiaryni.

Egor's younger son, Vladimir, an active member of the Peredviznhiki, became
known for his poignant character studies. He remained in Moscow and became
a professor at the Moscow School.

Konstantin's son Sergei Makovskii, became a poet and art critic who
contributed to Silver Age art journals and was the editor and publisher of
his own, Apollon, from 1909-1917.

Another family would be the Briullov family--the best known members being
the painter Karl Pavlovich Briullov and his brother Aleksandr, architect of
the Mikhailovskii Theater and several Hermitage interiors after the 1837
fire. They came from a line of French artists (Brulleau) but Karl and
Aleksandr were the most prominent in Russia.

The Benois/Benua family has already been mentioned, and the Stasov family
could also probably be added to the list.

Best regards,
Margaret


=========================
Margaret Samu
SHERA President
www.shera-art.org

Art History Department
Stern College for Women
245 Lexington Avenue
New York, NY  10016

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From rmcleminson at POST.SK  Thu Jun 12 16:35:17 2014
From: rmcleminson at POST.SK (R. M. Cleminson)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 18:35:17 +0200
Subject: Translation question?
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt-N_v_wj+rB8S5vus++PnLoPjKZ2+T+=opTuSomGcw47w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.183517.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Might I suggest "Academy of the Arts"?  This is fairly close to the original, and more or less equally (un)informative: the institution covered literature, theatre, cinema, (fine) art and music, and was a short-lived product of the almost constant reorganisation of cultural institutions in the inter-war years.


----- Pôvodná správa -----
Od: "Anthony Anemone" <AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU>
Komu: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Odoslané: štvrtok, 12. jún 2014 4:39:36
Predmet: [SEELANGS] Translation question?


Colleagues, 


Is there a standard translation of "Академия Искусствознания"? Art History doesn't seem right since you could study to become a film director there. . . "Art Studies" is closer but that term doesn't seem to be used much in (American) English. . . is that the best we have? or am I missing something? 


Thanks! 


Tony 


-- 
Tony Anemone 
Associate Professor 
The New School 
72 Fifth Ave, 702 
New York, NY 10011 

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_____________________________________________________________________

http://ad.sme.sk/ Reklama na Sme.sk vam prinasa viac.

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From rmcleminson at POST.SK  Thu Jun 12 16:41:46 2014
From: rmcleminson at POST.SK (R. M. Cleminson)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 18:41:46 +0200
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <CFBE7C19.25DE3%dassia2@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.184146.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Let us not forget the Lichačevs: Andrej Fedorovič, Ivan Fedorovič, Nikolaj Petrovič and Oľga Petrovna on the one hand, and Dmitrij Sergeevič and Vera Dmitrievna on the other; I don't know how, or indeed whether these two families were related to each other.
_____________________________________________________________________

Presny televizny program najdete na http://www.ahaho.sk

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From vprolow at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 12 16:46:30 2014
From: vprolow at GMAIL.COM (Vanessa Prolow)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 20:46:30 +0400
Subject: Translation question?
In-Reply-To: <1806557953.16944.1402590917165.JavaMail.root@mbox01.in.post.sk>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.204630.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I think Academy of the Arts would have the same problem as Academy of Fine
Arts: seems too much like an institute where people are learning how to
paint and dance, and far too close to the Academy of Arts.


On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 8:35 PM, R. M. Cleminson <rmcleminson at post.sk>
wrote:

> Might I suggest "Academy of the Arts"?  This is fairly close to the
> original, and more or less equally (un)informative: the institution covered
> literature, theatre, cinema, (fine) art and music, and was a short-lived
> product of the almost constant reorganisation of cultural institutions in
> the inter-war years.
>
>
> ----- Pôvodná správa -----
> Od: "Anthony Anemone" <AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU>
> Komu: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Odoslané: štvrtok, 12. jún 2014 4:39:36
> Predmet: [SEELANGS] Translation question?
>
>
> Colleagues,
>
>
> Is there a standard translation of "Академия Искусствознания"? Art History
> doesn't seem right since you could study to become a film director there. .
> . "Art Studies" is closer but that term doesn't seem to be used much in
> (American) English. . . is that the best we have? or am I missing something?
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Tony
>
>
> --
> Tony Anemone
> Associate Professor
> The New School
> 72 Fifth Ave, 702
> New York, NY 10011
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> _____________________________________________________________________
>
> http://ad.sme.sk/ Reklama na Sme.sk vam prinasa viac.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



-- 
Vanessa Prolow

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From a.v.nevinglovskaya at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 12 17:22:40 2014
From: a.v.nevinglovskaya at GMAIL.COM (Anya Hamrick-Nevinglovskaya)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 12:22:40 -0500
Subject: AATSEEL 2015: Presenter/Discussant for Chekhov Panel Needed
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.122240.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers,
 
A colleague and I are in the process of organizing a panel on Chekhov for the 2015 AATSEEL, and we are looking for a third presenter, as well as a potential discussant. So far, the papers explore representations of neurasthenia and the role of medicine in Chekhov's work. If you are interested, please contact me at hamrick1 at illinois.edu by June 23rd. Papers exploring the importance of various aspects of science/medicine in Chekhov's work are particularly encouraged (but not necessary). Please do not hesitate to write with any questions. 

With thanks,
Anya

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From bradleygorski at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 12 18:38:40 2014
From: bradleygorski at GMAIL.COM (Bradley Gorski)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:38:40 -0400
Subject: Translation question?
In-Reply-To: <CA+74TSKE=zMp-53x7+n8KbkdC=nh=6C5t2ZuSBd6=+vmU3hifg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.143840.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Here at Columbia University, our "School of the Arts" includes the
Filmmaking and Creative Writing MFA programs. I don't think it's confusing
to most native speakers of English in context.

Hope this helps!

Bradley

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From vprolow at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 12 18:51:42 2014
From: vprolow at GMAIL.COM (Vanessa Prolow)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 22:51:42 +0400
Subject: Translation question?
In-Reply-To: <CADhHUkTLNPVkue+v+WiOi68Aw-SHF8PNc8cO_7=0U9=cpThvOw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.225142.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Искусствознание, as I understand it, relates to an academic discipline, not
a creative program like filmmaking or creative writing.


On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 10:38 PM, Bradley Gorski <bradleygorski at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Here at Columbia University, our "School of the Arts" includes the
> Filmmaking and Creative Writing MFA programs. I don't think it's confusing
> to most native speakers of English in context.
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Bradley
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



-- 
Vanessa Prolow

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Thu Jun 12 19:27:50 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:27:50 -0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <2044212913.5511140.1402554454564.JavaMail.root@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <THU.12.JUN.2014.152750.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Well, here I must add an odd connection, a blood relative, although not family in the proper sense of the word: a very famous Leningrad mathematician Владимир Абрамович Рохлин was Chukovsky's nephew http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Рохлин,_Владимир_Абрамович


On Jun 12, 2014, at 2:27 AM, Hugh Olmsted <hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET> wrote:

> A few more relatives and families:
> 
> The Chukovskiis: Kornei Ivanovich (1882-1969) and his children Nikolai Korneevich (1904-1969) and Lidiia Korneevna  (1907-1996), as well as Lidiia's daughterElena Tsezarevna  (1931-    ).
> 


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From KALBJ at MAILBOX.SC.EDU  Fri Jun 13 01:09:03 2014
From: KALBJ at MAILBOX.SC.EDU (KALB, JUDITH)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 01:09:03 +0000
Subject: returning a passport to Russia??
Message-ID: <FRI.13.JUN.2014.010903.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear colleagues,
A student of mine just returned from Russia and found in a gift bag her host mom had given her not only the gift, but her host mom's passport.  Any useful thoughts on how to get it back to her safely (in Ufa)?
Thank you!
Judy

Dr. Judith E. Kalb
Associate Professor of Russian and Comparative Literature
Department of Languages, Literatures, and Cultures
University of South Carolina
Columbia, SC 29208
jkalb at sc.edu<mailto:jkalb at sc.edu>


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From rachel.morley at UCL.AC.UK  Fri Jun 13 15:59:24 2014
From: rachel.morley at UCL.AC.UK (Morley, Rachel)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:59:24 +0000
Subject: FINAL CFP - Postgraduate Paper Competition: New Directions in
 Russian and Soviet Cinema Studies
Message-ID: <FRI.13.JUN.2014.155924.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

UCL SSEES and the University of Cambridge are jointly organising a major international film symposium in honour of Professor Julian Graffy, who retired in December 2013 after more than 37 years at SSEES. The symposium will be held in Cambridge over the 18th, 19th and 20th of September 2014 and is funded by CEELBAS, UCL SSEES, Cambridge Slavonic Studies and Trinity College, Cambridge. The title of the event is 'New Directions in Russian and Soviet Cinema Studies' and it will feature screenings, presentations by invited speakers, a postgraduate panel and many opportunities for discussion. Speakers are coming from the UK, Europe, Russia and the US. Confirmed speakers at the time of writing include Petr Bagrov, Nikolai Izvolov, Naum Kleiman, Evgenii Margolit, Evgenii Tsymbal, Nancy Condee, Lilya Kaganovsky, Joan Neuberger, Masha Salazkina, Nariman Skakov, Birgit Beumers, Ian Christie, Seth Graham, Jeremy Hicks, Stephen Hutchings, Stephen Lovell, Vlad Strukov, Richard Taylor and Eugénie Zvonkine.

Once the programme is finalised we will circulate it widely to this and other lists.

This is a final CFP for the postgraduate panel. Papers will be selected on the basis of submitted abstracts. Professor Graffy will be the discussant for this panel. Postgraduate presenters will receive funding to cover the conference fee, accommodation and travel costs (within the UK only). They will also be invited to submit a revised and expanded version of their presentation for possible inclusion in a peer-reviewed publication of selected papers from the symposium.

Guidelines for submissions:  Papers should focus on the analysis of a single film clip, discussion of which will illuminate the current direction of the presenter's research. Presentations (including the film clip) may not exceed 13 minutes. These presentations are intended to be short 'snapshots' of presenters' research and to provide a springboard for extended discussion. We welcome submissions from postgraduates at any stage in their doctoral research, including those who will only embark on their PhD course in 2014/2015. The competition is not limited to students in the UK, but we are unable to fund travel costs for students coming from abroad. Submissions should include your name, affiliation and an abstract of no more than 200 words that specifies the film from which
your abstract will be drawn. Please include three or four keywords below the body of the abstract. The selection committee consists of the conference organisers:  Susan Larsen, Anna Toropova and Emma Widdis (Cambridge); Phil Cavendish and Rachel Morley (UCL).

Abstracts should be submitted by 16 June 2014 to rachel.morley at ucl.ac.uk with the subject field 'Paper abstract - [your name]'.

With best wishes,

Rachel

_____________________

Dr Rachel Morley
Lecturer in Russian Cinema and Culture?
UCL School of Slavonic and East European Studies
University College London
Gower St
London
WC1E 6BT
United Kingdom
rachel.morley at ucl.ac.uk<mailto:rachel.morley at ucl.ac.uk>
020 7679 872?

Co-convenor: UCL SSEES Russian Cinema Research Group www.ucl.ac.uk/ssees/research/research-centres/russian-cinema-research-group<http://www.ucl.ac.uk/ssees/research/research-centres/russian-cinema-research-group>?

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From oprokop at TEMPLE.EDU  Fri Jun 13 15:34:21 2014
From: oprokop at TEMPLE.EDU (Olia Prokopenko)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 11:34:21 -0400
Subject: Translation question?
In-Reply-To: <CA+74TS+P52TOTw4DYeaxRA-O96zTRtBwKjVkjwK8z5a=yxQAQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.13.JUN.2014.113421.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Unfortunately, when it comes to academic institutions/departments in the US
and Russia, it is hard to find perfect English-Russian equivalents - when
you know what stands behind the names. Just try translating "Филологический
факультет" into English without missing/adding anything.
The English word "academy" also seems to have broader usage than "академия"
in Russian.


On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 2:51 PM, Vanessa Prolow <vprolow at gmail.com> wrote:

> Искусствознание, as I understand it, relates to an academic discipline,
> not a creative program like filmmaking or creative writing.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 10:38 PM, Bradley Gorski <bradleygorski at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Here at Columbia University, our "School of the Arts" includes the
>> Filmmaking and Creative Writing MFA programs. I don't think it's confusing
>> to most native speakers of English in context.
>>
>> Hope this helps!
>>
>> Bradley
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Vanessa Prolow
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



-- 

Olia Prokopenko,
Instructor, Russian Program Coordinator and Adviser

Anderson Hall 551
FGIS, Temple University,
1114 W.Berks St.
Philadelphia, PA 19122
tel. (215)-204-1768
oprokop at temple.edu

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From James at RUSSIA-ON-LINE.COM  Fri Jun 13 19:29:57 2014
From: James at RUSSIA-ON-LINE.COM (James Beale)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 15:29:57 -0400
Subject: Announcing a new e-book for students of Russian
Message-ID: <FRI.13.JUN.2014.152957.0400.>

Hello friends!

 

Just in time for summer study and travel abroad, Russia Online Publishing
and ilearnRussian.com are proud to announce our latest publication:  How to
Communicate with Russians in Russian: 10 Situation Manual: Parallel Text
Edition by Linna Liberchuk.   

 

A short course of spoken Russian, which utilizes common, realistic
situations that a foreigner in Russia would encounter, to improve speech and
listening comprehension. 

 

Each short dialogue takes place between an English-speaking foreigner and
Russian native speakers, such as: passers-by, salespersons, waiters, customs
officers, friends, etc. Each dialogue is in the form of a set of questions
and answers. 

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(1) by tourists and travelers in order to communicate with Russians; 

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speaking skills and spontaneous speech production. 

 

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overseas!

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Russia Online, Inc.

Tel: 301-933-0607      Fax: 301-933-0615

 

Shop online 24/7:  http://shop.russia-on-line.com

Learn Russian:    http://ilearnrussian.com

 


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From gjahn at UMN.EDU  Fri Jun 13 21:06:23 2014
From: gjahn at UMN.EDU (Gary R. Jahn)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 16:06:23 -0500
Subject: Part-time position to teach Beginning Polish
Message-ID: <FRI.13.JUN.2014.160623.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Lecturer or Teaching Specialist Position in Polish
Program in Slavic Languages & Literatures, College of Liberal Arts,
University of Minnesota

	DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES:
The Program in Slavic Languages & Literatures in the College of Liberal Arts at the University of Minnesota seeks candidates for a position in Polish to teach two Polish courses. The first one, PLSH 1101, Beginning Polish I is being offered in Fall 2014 and the second one, PLSH 1102, Beginning Polish II, is being offered in Spring 2015. In addition to teaching the courses, the instructor would be responsible for holding office hours to assist and advise students, attending meetings as necessary and performing some administrative duties.

This position is contingent upon student enrollment, performance, and availability of funding. This position is temporary and part-time. Salary for 2014-15 will be approximately $6,000 per five-credit course.

	REQUIRED QUALIFICATIONS:
•	MA degree or foreign equivalent or ABD in Slavic, Foreign Language Education, or a related field.
•	One year of experience teaching Polish language.
•	Native or near-native fluency in Polish & English.

	PREFERRED QUALIFICATIONS:
•	PhD degree or foreign equivalent in Slavic, Foreign Language Education, or a related field
•	Experience teaching American college- or university-level undergraduates.

	APPLICATION INSTRUCTIONS:
Persons interested and who meet the qualifications listed above should apply through the University of Minnesota’s online application system for Requisition number 191615. (employment.umn.edu/applicants/Central?quickFind=120855).

Supporting materials required for the initial application: 
1.	Cover Letter/Letter of Intent
2.	Curriculum vitae
3.	Two letters of recommendation. These may be uploaded into the online application or be mailed to:
Search Committee (Polish)
Slavic Languages & Literatures
320 Folwell Hall
9 Pleasant St. SE
Minneapolis, MN  55455

Applications received by July 1, 2014 will be given priority for Fall Semester 2014. Please provide a translation of any material not in English.

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From eimonast at COLBY.EDU  Fri Jun 13 21:27:41 2014
From: eimonast at COLBY.EDU (Elena Monastireva-Ansdell)
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 2014 17:27:41 -0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <811DAF36-E517-4860-A23A-73711B4CC655@american.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.13.JUN.2014.172741.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Evgeniia Ginzburg and Vasilii Aksionov

The Mikhalkov-Konchalovsky family (Vasilii Surikov, Piotr Konchalovsky,
Natalia Konchalovskaya, Sergei Mikhalkov, Andrei Mikhalkov-Konchalovsky,
and Anna and Nadezhda Mikhalkovy).


On Thu, Jun 12, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Alina Israeli <aisrael at american.edu> wrote:

> Well, here I must add an odd connection, a blood relative, although not
> family in the proper sense of the word: a very famous Leningrad
> mathematician Владимир Абрамович Рохлин was Chukovsky's nephew
> http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Рохлин,_Владимир_Абрамович
>
>
> On Jun 12, 2014, at 2:27 AM, Hugh Olmsted <hugh_olmsted at COMCAST.NET>
> wrote:
>
> A few more relatives and families:
>
> The Chukovskiis: Kornei Ivanovich (1882-1969) and his children Nikolai
> Korneevich (1904-1969) and Lidiia Korneevna  (1907-1996), as well as
> Lidiia's daughterElena Tsezarevna  (1931-    ).
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
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>

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From julia.titus at GMAIL.COM  Sat Jun 14 19:22:36 2014
From: julia.titus at GMAIL.COM (Julia Titus)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 15:22:36 -0400
Subject: seeking a third presenter for World Congress in Japan 2015
Message-ID: <SAT.14.JUN.2014.152236.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

We are organizing a panel on Teaching  Heritage Learners of Russian for the
ICCEES World Congress to be held in Japan in August 2015
http://src-h.slav.hokudai.ac.jp/iccees2015/index.html and we are looking
for a third presenter and a chair. Please email me asap if you are
interested.

Thank you,
Julia Titus

-- 
Julia Titus
Senior Lector,
Slavic Languages and Literatures,
Yale University
P.O.Box 208236
New Haven, CT 06520-8236
tel.(203) 432-0996
fax.(203)432-0999

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From klinela at COMCAST.NET  Sat Jun 14 20:21:33 2014
From: klinela at COMCAST.NET (Laura Kline)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 16:21:33 -0400
Subject: Seeking a chair for a panel at the ICCEES World Congress in Japan
 August 2015
Message-ID: <SAT.14.JUN.2014.162133.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers,

We are looking for a chair for our panel, "'Remnants of Kolyma': The Text
and the Space", at the ICCEES World Congress in Japan in August 2015
(http://src-h.slav.hokudai.ac.jp/iccees2015/index.html). If you are
interested, please let me know by this evening.

Best,

Laura

 

Laura Kline, Ph.D

Sr. Lecturer in Russian

Dept. of Classical and Modern Languages, 

      Literatures, and Cultures

Wayne State University

487 Manoogian Hall

906 W. Warren

Detroit, MI  48202

 





-- 
Julia Titus
Senior Lector,
Slavic Languages and Literatures,
Yale University
P.O.Box 208236
New Haven, CT 06520-8236
tel.(203) 432-0996
fax.(203)432-0999

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From jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM  Sat Jun 14 23:56:33 2014
From: jerry3 at ROADRUNNER.COM (Jerry Katsell)
Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2014 16:56:33 -0700
Subject: Fwd: Re: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and
 Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <CAN3g76+hL0Pedkx0hFwvO1af+fQfz88SVR9vcck+1Ud8tefueA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.14.JUN.2014.165633.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Sun Jun 15 14:13:36 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 15:13:36 +0100
Subject: a few Teffi questions
Message-ID: <SUN.15.JUN.2014.151336.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

Teffi is in Odessa in early 1919.  Odessa has been occupied by French troops, but these are now being evacuated.  Nearly everyone in Teffi's circle has already left, but Teffi has not yet managed to arrange for her own departure.  Feeling anxious, she drifts off into a reverie, remembering her visit to Solovki several years earlier.

Старенький монашек у глухой церковки далеко в глуби леса. На стенах церковки все архангелы: Михаил с мечом, Рафаил с кадилом, Варахиил, вертоградарь  райский, с розами в руках, и Гавриил, ангел благовещения, с веткой лилий, и Иегудиил — карающий, с бичами, и Силахиил, ангел молитвы, со сложенными руками, и Уриил, скорбный ангел смерти со свечой, перевернутой пламенем вниз.
—   Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?
Старичок моргает, не понимает, не слышит:
—  Куды? Куды?
Улыбнулся мелкими лучиками сухих морщин.
— Лики, милая, лики!..

My questions:
1. "Варахиил, вертоградарь  райский" - gardener or guardian?  Both seem possible, according to dictionaries.

2. "Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?" I don't understand this at all.  "Are your angels holy"? Or is it more along the lines of  "Do you have holy angels living with you?"?

3. "Лики, милая, лики!.."  This seems still more difficult.  Perhaps just, "They're holy, my dear, holy!)

4. And lastly, on the page after the memory of Solovki, some minor public figure calls on Teffi and laments how a friend has let him down, making false promises about how the French would look after him and his family:
"Он клялся, что французы заберут нас всех. Назначил прийти за пропусками сегодня к одиннадцати… Мы сидели, как дураки, перед запертыми дверями до трех, и вдруг входит секретарь и выражает полное удивление нашим присущствием."
The word that confuses me here is "входит".  Is it being used as a synonym for "prikhodit"?

All the best,

Robert

Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD





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From oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM  Sun Jun 15 14:49:28 2014
From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM (Oleksandr Spirin)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 07:49:28 -0700
Subject: a few Teffi questions
In-Reply-To: <224602A3-7BC7-4C02-B884-BE73D73FB743@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.15.JUN.2014.074928.0700.OLEKSANDR.SPIRIN@YMAIL.COM>

"Лик" - 1. in common sense: archaic, poetic face; 2. image, representation of face (on icons).	


On Sunday, June 15, 2014 5:18 PM, Robert Chandler <kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM> wrote:
 


Dear all,

Teffi is in Odessa in early 1919.  Odessa has been occupied by French troops, but these are now being evacuated.  Nearly everyone in Teffi's circle has already left, but Teffi has not yet managed to arrange for her own departure.  Feeling anxious, she drifts off into a reverie, remembering her visit to Solovki several years earlier.

Старенький монашек у глухой церковки далеко в глуби леса. На стенах церковки все архангелы: Михаил с мечом, Рафаил с кадилом, Варахиил, вертоградарь  райский, с розами в руках, и Гавриил, ангел благовещения, с веткой лилий, и Иегудиил — карающий, с бичами, и Силахиил, ангел молитвы, со сложенными руками, и Уриил, скорбный ангел смерти со свечой, перевернутой пламенем вниз.
—   Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?
Старичок моргает, не понимает, не слышит:
—  Куды? Куды?
Улыбнулся мелкими лучиками сухих морщин.
— Лики, милая, лики!..

My questions:
1. "Варахиил, вертоградарь  райский" - gardener or guardian?  Both seem possible, according to dictionaries.

2. "Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?" I don't understand this at all.  "Are your angels holy"? Or is it more along the lines of  "Do you have holy angels living with you?"?

3. "Лики, милая, лики!.."  This seems still more difficult.  Perhaps just, "They're holy, my dear, holy!)

4. And lastly, on the page after the memory of Solovki, some minor public figure calls on Teffi and laments how a friend has let him down, making false promises about how the French would look after him and his family:
"Он клялся, что французы заберут нас всех. Назначил прийти за пропусками сегодня к одиннадцати… Мы сидели, как дураки, перед запертыми дверями до трех, и вдруг входит секретарь и выражает полное удивление нашим присущствием."
The word that confuses me here is "входит".  Is it being used as a synonym for "prikhodit"?

All the best,

Robert

Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD





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From oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM  Sun Jun 15 15:17:47 2014
From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM (Oleksandr Spirin)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 08:17:47 -0700
Subject: a few Teffi questions
In-Reply-To: <1402843768.47773.YahooMailNeo@web122205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.15.JUN.2014.081747.0700.OLEKSANDR.SPIRIN@YMAIL.COM>

"Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?" I don't understand this at all.  "Are your angels holy"? Or is it more along the lines of  "Do you have holy angels living with you?"?

- I understand this as: "Do you have the holy angels, reverend father? " (i.e., "Are the holy angels here (здесь, у вас), father?" 

Oleksandr Spirin
translator
Kharkiv, Ukrine
oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com





On , Oleksandr Spirin <oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com> wrote:
 


"Лик" - 1. in common sense: archaic, poetic face; 2. image, representation of face (on icons).


On Sunday, June 15, 2014 5:18 PM, Robert Chandler <kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM> wrote:
 


Dear all,

Teffi is in Odessa in early 1919.  Odessa has been occupied by French troops, but these are now being evacuated.  Nearly everyone in Teffi's circle has already left, but Teffi has not yet managed to arrange for her own departure.  Feeling anxious, she drifts off into a reverie, remembering her visit to Solovki several years earlier.

Старенький монашек у глухой церковки далеко в глуби леса. На стенах церковки все архангелы: Михаил с мечом, Рафаил с кадилом, Варахиил, вертоградарь  райский, с розами в руках, и
 Гавриил, ангел благовещения, с веткой лилий, и Иегудиил — карающий, с бичами, и Силахиил, ангел молитвы, со сложенными руками, и Уриил, скорбный ангел смерти со свечой, перевернутой пламенем вниз.
—   Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?
Старичок моргает, не понимает, не слышит:
—  Куды? Куды?
Улыбнулся мелкими лучиками сухих морщин.
— Лики, милая, лики!..

My questions:
1. "Варахиил, вертоградарь  райский" - gardener or guardian?  Both seem possible, according to dictionaries.

2. "Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?" I don't understand this at all.  "Are your angels holy"? Or is it more
 along the lines of  "Do you have holy angels living with you?"?

3. "Лики, милая, лики!.."  This seems still more difficult.  Perhaps just, "They're holy, my dear, holy!)

4. And lastly, on the page after the memory of Solovki, some minor public figure calls on Teffi and laments how a friend has let him down, making false promises about how the French would look after him and his family:
"Он клялся, что французы заберут нас всех. Назначил прийти за пропусками сегодня к одиннадцати… Мы сидели, как дураки, перед запертыми дверями до трех, и вдруг входит секретарь и выражает полное удивление нашим присущствием."
The word that confuses me here is "входит".  Is it being used as a synonym for "prikhodit"?

All the
 best,

Robert

Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD





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From oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM  Sun Jun 15 15:36:52 2014
From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM (Oleksandr Spirin)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 08:36:52 -0700
Subject: a few Teffi questions
In-Reply-To: <1402845467.71998.YahooMailNeo@web122202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.15.JUN.2014.083652.0700.OLEKSANDR.SPIRIN@YMAIL.COM>

"Варахиил, вертоградарь  райский" - gardener or guardian?  Both seem possible, according to dictionaries.


As to Dahl, "вертоград м. церк. сад, особ. плодовый; виноградник; вертоградный, садовый; вертоградарь м. садовник."

A rose in hands of Barachiel indirectly confirms that he is a gardener of the Eden, but "Barachiel's responsibilities are as varied as the blessings for which the archangel is named, Barachiel is also the chief of the Guardian angel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia"
 
   Guardian angel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A guardian angel is an angel assigned to protect and guide a particular person or group, kingdom or country. Belief in guardian angels can be traced throughout all ...  
View on en.wikipedia.org Preview by Yahoo  
  With kind regards,

Oleksandr Spirin
translator,
Kharkiv, Ukraine


On , Oleksandr Spirin <oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com> wrote:
 


"Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?" I don't understand this at all.  "Are your angels holy"? Or is it more along the lines of  "Do you have holy angels living with you?"?

- I understand this as: "Do you have the holy angels, reverend father? " (i.e., "Are the holy angels here (здесь, у вас), father?" 

Oleksandr Spirin
translator
Kharkiv, Ukrine
oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com





On , Oleksandr Spirin <oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com> wrote:
 


"Лик" - 1. in common sense: archaic, poetic face; 2. image, representation of face (on icons).


On Sunday, June 15, 2014 5:18 PM, Robert Chandler <kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM> wrote:
 


Dear all,

Teffi is in Odessa in early 1919.  Odessa has been occupied by French troops, but these are now being evacuated.  Nearly everyone in Teffi's circle has already left, but Teffi has not yet managed to arrange for her own departure.  Feeling anxious, she drifts off into a reverie, remembering her visit to Solovki several years earlier.

Старенький монашек у глухой церковки далеко в глуби леса. На стенах церковки все архангелы: Михаил с мечом, Рафаил с кадилом, Варахиил,
 вертоградарь  райский, с розами в руках, и
 Гавриил, ангел благовещения, с веткой лилий, и Иегудиил — карающий, с бичами, и Силахиил, ангел молитвы, со сложенными руками, и Уриил, скорбный ангел смерти со свечой, перевернутой пламенем вниз.
—   Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?
Старичок моргает, не понимает, не слышит:
—  Куды? Куды?
Улыбнулся мелкими лучиками сухих морщин.
— Лики, милая, лики!..

My questions:
1. "Варахиил,
 вертоградарь  райский" - gardener or guardian?  Both seem possible, according to dictionaries.

2. "Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?" I don't understand this at all.  "Are your angels holy"? Or is it more
 along the lines of  "Do you have holy angels living with you?"?

3. "Лики, милая, лики!.."  This seems still more difficult.  Perhaps just, "They're holy, my dear, holy!)

4. And lastly, on the page after the memory of Solovki, some minor public figure calls on Teffi and laments how a friend has let him down, making false promises about how the French would look after him and his family:
"Он клялся, что французы заберут нас всех. Назначил прийти за пропусками сегодня к одиннадцати… Мы сидели, как дураки, перед запертыми дверями до трех, и вдруг входит секретарь и выражает полное удивление
 нашим присущствием."
The word that confuses me here is "входит".  Is it being used as a synonym for "prikhodit"?

All the
 best,

Robert

Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD





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From worobecchristine at GMAIL.COM  Sun Jun 15 16:11:12 2014
From: worobecchristine at GMAIL.COM (Christine Worobec)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 12:11:12 -0400
Subject: a few Teffi questions
In-Reply-To: <224602A3-7BC7-4C02-B884-BE73D73FB743@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.15.JUN.2014.121112.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Robert: The reference to Barachiel is definitely as to his role as
gardener. Keep in mind that all Orthodox monasteries are believed to
represent aspects of heaven on earth. As a result their gardens and
orchards are attempts at representations of Eden and a fulfillment of God's
mandate to tend nature.

Best wishes,
Christine Worobec
Northern Illinois University


2014-06-15 10:13 GMT-04:00 Robert Chandler <kcf19 at dial.pipex.com>:

> Dear all,
>
> Teffi is in Odessa in early 1919.  Odessa has been occupied by French
> troops, but these are now being evacuated.  Nearly everyone in Teffi's
> circle has already left, but Teffi has not yet managed to arrange for her
> own departure.  Feeling anxious, she drifts off into a reverie, remembering
> her visit to Solovki several years earlier.
>
> Старенький монашек у глухой церковки далеко в глуби леса. На стенах
> церковки все архангелы: Михаил с мечом, Рафаил с кадилом, Варахиил,
> вертоградарь  райский, с розами в руках, и Гавриил, ангел благовещения, с
> веткой лилий, и Иегудиил — карающий, с бичами, и Силахиил, ангел молитвы,
> со сложенными руками, и Уриил, скорбный ангел смерти со свечой,
> перевернутой пламенем вниз.
> —   Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?
> Старичок моргает, не понимает, не слышит:
> —  Куды? Куды?
> Улыбнулся мелкими лучиками сухих морщин.
> — Лики, милая, лики!..
>
> My questions:
> 1. "Варахиил, вертоградарь  райский" - gardener or guardian?  Both seem
> possible, according to dictionaries.
>
> 2. "Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?" I don't understand this at all.  "Are
> your angels holy"? Or is it more along the lines of  "Do you have holy
> angels living with you?"?
>
> 3. "Лики, милая, лики!.."  This seems still more difficult.  Perhaps just,
> "They're holy, my dear, holy!)
>
> 4. And lastly, on the page after the memory of Solovki, some minor public
> figure calls on Teffi and laments how a friend has let him down, making
> false promises about how the French would look after him and his family:
> "Он клялся, что французы заберут нас всех. Назначил прийти за пропусками
> сегодня к одиннадцати… Мы сидели, как дураки, перед запертыми дверями до
> трех, и вдруг входит секретарь и выражает полное удивление нашим
> присущствием."
> The word that confuses me here is "входит".  Is it being used as a synonym
> for "prikhodit"?
>
> All the best,
>
> Robert
>
> Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD
>
>
>
>
>
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From elena.ostrovskaya at GMAIL.COM  Sun Jun 15 17:06:16 2014
From: elena.ostrovskaya at GMAIL.COM (Elena Ostrovskaya)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 21:06:16 +0400
Subject: a few Teffi questions
In-Reply-To: <224602A3-7BC7-4C02-B884-BE73D73FB743@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.15.JUN.2014.210616.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Robert,

1. I would also vote for the gardener.
2. I think it is a conversational question, not a real one, something like,
'You have holy angels here, father, don't you?', even though I somehow
don't like this specific question as translation.
3. They are holy icons (?? images??), my dear, holy icons.

In my understanding, there is not much information passed between the
participants of the conversation and it is not that clear what the monk
means by that, but I would not get rid of the 'holy' component in his
answer.

4. Most likely there was some kind of приемная, where they were sitting and
the secretary could enter. At least he says, 'мы сидели', so it had to be
indoors, which makes it possible for the secretary to enter.

For what it may be worth.
Elena


2014-06-15 18:13 GMT+04:00 Robert Chandler <kcf19 at dial.pipex.com>:

> Dear all,
>
> Teffi is in Odessa in early 1919.  Odessa has been occupied by French
> troops, but these are now being evacuated.  Nearly everyone in Teffi's
> circle has already left, but Teffi has not yet managed to arrange for her
> own departure.  Feeling anxious, she drifts off into a reverie, remembering
> her visit to Solovki several years earlier.
>
> Старенький монашек у глухой церковки далеко в глуби леса. На стенах
> церковки все архангелы: Михаил с мечом, Рафаил с кадилом, Варахиил,
> вертоградарь  райский, с розами в руках, и Гавриил, ангел благовещения, с
> веткой лилий, и Иегудиил — карающий, с бичами, и Силахиил, ангел молитвы,
> со сложенными руками, и Уриил, скорбный ангел смерти со свечой,
> перевернутой пламенем вниз.
> —   Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?
> Старичок моргает, не понимает, не слышит:
> —  Куды? Куды?
> Улыбнулся мелкими лучиками сухих морщин.
> — Лики, милая, лики!..
>
> My questions:
> 1. "Варахиил, вертоградарь  райский" - gardener or guardian?  Both seem
> possible, according to dictionaries.
>
> 2. "Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?" I don't understand this at all.  "Are
> your angels holy"? Or is it more along the lines of  "Do you have holy
> angels living with you?"?
>
> 3. "Лики, милая, лики!.."  This seems still more difficult.  Perhaps just,
> "They're holy, my dear, holy!)
>
> 4. And lastly, on the page after the memory of Solovki, some minor public
> figure calls on Teffi and laments how a friend has let him down, making
> false promises about how the French would look after him and his family:
> "Он клялся, что французы заберут нас всех. Назначил прийти за пропусками
> сегодня к одиннадцати… Мы сидели, как дураки, перед запертыми дверями до
> трех, и вдруг входит секретарь и выражает полное удивление нашим
> присущствием."
> The word that confuses me here is "входит".  Is it being used as a synonym
> for "prikhodit"?
>
> All the best,
>
> Robert
>
> Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD
>
>
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From klinela at COMCAST.NET  Sun Jun 15 20:44:53 2014
From: klinela at COMCAST.NET (Laura Kline)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 16:44:53 -0400
Subject: Shalamovskie dni in Moscow and Vologda this week
Message-ID: <SUN.15.JUN.2014.164453.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear All,

This week "Шаламовские дни", held annually to commemorate the birth of the
writer, will take place in Moscow and Vologda. They will begin on June 18 at
the Pasternak Museum in Peredelkino, then continue June 21-22 in Vologda. On
the 21st the opening of the new Shalamov Museum exhibit will be held
followed by a public reception (starting at 3). On the 22nd starting at 11
am there will be a round table on "Актуальные проблемы изучения биографии и
творчества В.Ш." followed by a seminar on textological questions related to
Shalamov's poetry.

More details are available here: http://shalamov.ru/events/73/ 

Please consider attending part or all of this year's program!

Best,

 

Laura Kline, Ph.D

Sr. Lecturer in Russian

Dept. of Classical and Modern Languages, 

      Literatures, and Cultures

Wayne State University

487 Manoogian Hall

906 W. Warren

Detroit, MI  48202

 


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From mhbeissi at PRINCETON.EDU  Sun Jun 15 15:44:50 2014
From: mhbeissi at PRINCETON.EDU (Margaret H. Beissinger)
Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2014 15:44:50 +0000
Subject: CFP: SRS Conference in Bucharest, June 2015
Message-ID: <SUN.15.JUN.2014.154450.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Conference of the Society for Romanian Studies (SRS)
Bucharest, 17- 19 June 2015

The 2015 SRS conference will be hosted by the Faculty of Political Science, the University of Bucharest.

Linking Past, Present and Future: The 25th Anniversary of Regime Change in Romania and Moldova (1989/1991)

Anniversaries represent opportunities to reflect on past events, re-assess their impact on the present, and draw lessons for the future. Together with other 20th century historical events - including World War I, World War II, and the communist take-over - the overthrow of the communist regime represented a watershed event for Romania and Moldova, the most recent great transformation it is seen as having led to the end of the communist dictatorship, democratization of the political system, the introduction of market economy, cultural liberalization, the opening of borders, and a re-alignment with the West. At the same time, given Romania's and Moldova's persistent problems with political instability, pervasive corruption, slow economic growth, populism, and nationalism, the significance of the 1989/1991 regime change and its outcomes remains a source of contestation. The aim of this conference is to take a fresh look at the transformative events of a quarter century ago. We wish to examine their significance for the two countries' post-communist trajectories, past, present, and future both domestically and in the wider European and Eurasian contexts with the help of broad historical, political, literary, and cultural disciplinary and interdisciplinary inquiries.

Keynote Speakers: Dennis Deletant (Georgetown University) and Mihaela Miroiu (SNSPA).

We welcome proposals for papers, panels and roundtables from junior and senior scholars working in a variety of disciplines: history, sociology, anthropology and ethnography, political science, philosophy, law and justice studies, literature and linguistics, economics, business, international affairs, religious, gender, film and media studies, art history, music, and education, among others. Possible topics might include, but are not limited to:

*             Precursors of 1989 (anti-Stalinist revolts and resistance, resistance through culture, the role of dissidents, everyday forms of resistance, Braşov 1987, etc.)
*             The external context (Gorbachev's Soviet Union, the events in East and Central Europe)
*             Western propaganda and the Romanian diasporas
*             1989 in popular and official memory, historiography, film, literature and the arts
*             Legacies of World War I and World War II
*             Sources and archives
*             Communism, post-communism, and the arts
*             Writers and artists in post-communism
*             The Romanian new wave and the legacy of communism
*             European Union accession
*             Moldova between West and East
*             Legal and constitutional reforms
*             Party and electoral politics, and voting behavior
*             Free markets, neoliberalism and state paternalism
*             Romania's place in Europe and in the region
*             Romania's relationship with the Republic of Moldova
*             Moldova's place in Europe and the region
*             The status of ethnic, religious and sexual minorities in Romania and Moldova
*             The reconfiguration of social stratification
*             Post-communist media and journalism
*             The role of the Orthodox Church, and of other religious groups
*             Dynamics of migration from and into Romania and Moldova
*             Policy analysis and public administration
*             Urban policies and architecture in communism and post-communism

Individual paper proposals should include the title of the presentation, a brief abstract of up to 500 words, a short c.v., and contact information of the presenter.

Proposals for 2-hour panels including 3-4 papers, one chair, and 1-2 discussants should provide a title and description of the panel topic, abstracts of all papers, short vitae, and contact information for all participants. Panel participants should be drawn from at least two different universities.

Roundtables proposals of 3-5 participants should include title and description of the topic, short vitae and contact information for all participants.

In addition, the conference organizers will accept proposals for book panels.

Submissions should be sent in a single attached Word document by August 1, 2014 to srs2015conference at gmail.com<mailto:srs2015conference at gmail.com>.  Submissions and presentations in French will be accepted, as long as they are for full panels and roundtables including members from more than one university. Participants will be notified of the acceptance of their proposal by October 15, 2014.

In order to assure that the conference is accessible to scholars from across the Atlantic region and to those from Romania and the Republic of Moldova, the conference fees will be quite modest. For scholars from North America, the fee will be 40 USD; for those from the Eurozone and Western Europe, 40 Euros, and from Romania, Moldova and parts east, 40 Romanian Lei. Graduate students will be exempt from this fee. SRS membership will also be required and additional for those paying in USD and Euros, but included for those paying in Lei.





Margaret H. Beissinger
Department of Slavic Languages & Literatures
249 East Pyne, Princeton University
Princeton, NJ  08544
tel.--609-258-3874


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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Mon Jun 16 06:23:56 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 07:23:56 +0100
Subject: a few Teffi questions - and some wonderful answers!
Message-ID: <MON.16.JUN.2014.072356.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

Many people have come up with very helpful answers, on- and off-list.  My thanks to all of them.

I very much liked Alina Israeli's "Are the angels visiting you?" for  "Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?" I pasted it in at once.  Now, though, I have received from Olga Meerson a suggestion I like even more: "Are your saints all angels, Father?"  Olga doesn't, of course, present this as definite. She writes, "I have reasons to believe that the confusion is deliberate: all the meanings hint at one another, just as with puns"

And the other really difficult sentence was
"Лики, милая, лики!.."  
I had settled, after reading all your suggestions, on "They're holy, my dear, holy!
Olga, however, suggests, "Hosts of them, dearest, hosts and hosts!"
This, of course, suggests angels.  And its being something of a non-sequitur is good.

Yet another confirmation of how wonderful it is to have a forum where one can ask this kind of question.  Few things are harder to translate than fragmentary and imperfectly articulated speech.

And, just in case, anyone is in London tomorrow, we have a Teffi evening at Pushkin House, Bloomsbury!
http://pushkinpress.com/talk-teffi-at-pushkin-house-17-june/

All the best, and thanks again to everyone!

Robert

> 
> Teffi is in Odessa in early 1919.  Odessa has been occupied by French troops, but these are now being evacuated.  Nearly everyone in Teffi's circle has already left, but Teffi has not yet managed to arrange for her own departure.  Feeling anxious, she drifts off into a reverie, remembering her visit to Solovki several years earlier.
> 
> Старенький монашек у глухой церковки далеко в глуби леса. На стенах церковки все архангелы: Михаил с мечом, Рафаил с кадилом, Варахиил, вертоградарь  райский, с розами в руках, и Гавриил, ангел благовещения, с веткой лилий, и Иегудиил — карающий, с бичами, и Силахиил, ангел молитвы, со сложенными руками, и Уриил, скорбный ангел смерти со свечой, перевернутой пламенем вниз.
> —   Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?
> Старичок моргает, не понимает, не слышит:
> —  Куды? Куды?
> Улыбнулся мелкими лучиками сухих морщин.
> — Лики, милая, лики!..
> 
> My questions:
> 1. "Варахиил, вертоградарь  райский" - gardener or guardian?  Both seem possible, according to dictionaries.
> 
> 2. "Святые ангелы у вас, батюшка?" I don't understand this at all.  "Are your angels holy"? Or is it more along the lines of  "Do you have holy angels living with you?"?
> 
> 3. "Лики, милая, лики!.."  This seems still more difficult.  Perhaps just, "They're holy, my dear, holy!)
> 
> 4. And lastly, on the page after the memory of Solovki, some minor public figure calls on Teffi and laments how a friend has let him down, making false promises about how the French would look after him and his family:
> "Он клялся, что французы заберут нас всех. Назначил прийти за пропусками сегодня к одиннадцати… Мы сидели, как дураки, перед запертыми дверями до трех, и вдруг входит секретарь и выражает полное удивление нашим присущствием."
> The word that confuses me here is "входит".  Is it being used as a synonym for "prikhodit"?
> 
> All the best,
> 
> Robert
> 
> Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD

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From rmcleminson at POST.SK  Mon Jun 16 09:13:39 2014
From: rmcleminson at POST.SK (R. M. Cleminson)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 11:13:39 +0200
Subject: Fwd: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and
 Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <1402833124.70366.YahooMailNeo@web172505.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MON.16.JUN.2014.111339.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I am forwarding this message on behalf of a colleague who is unable to post directly.

A propos remark of  R. Cleminson: Likhachev's families are not related.   Н.П. Лихачев и Д. С. Лихачев родством не связаны. 
Род Комаровых You may also find interesting the following publication    ''Первый съезд потомков рода Комаровых''. СПб., 1913. (as well as the book by N. A. Krivosheina) Среди Комаровых Владимир Леонтьевич Комаров, президент АН, чьим именем назван поселок Келломяки Ольга Дмитриевна Форш (урожденная Комарова) писательница Нина Алексеевна Кр и вошеина (урожденная Мещерская)  писательница Никита Александрович Мещерский,  профессор ЛГУ Кира Александровна Мещерская, доктор медицинских наук, была замужем за Дмитрием Максимилиановичем Штейбергом. etc. Good searching! Lyubov Osinkina. lyubov.osinkina at wolfson.ox.ac.uk 

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From e.gapova at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 16 12:54:16 2014
From: e.gapova at GMAIL.COM (Elena Gapova)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 08:54:16 -0400
Subject: Fwd: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and
 Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <56812436.7035.1402910019249.JavaMail.root@mbox01.in.post.sk>
Message-ID: <MON.16.JUN.2014.085416.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

The Gaidar Family:
Arkady Gaidar, children's writer;
his son Timur Gaidar, a military correspondent (was in the Bay of Pigs
invasion);
Egor Gaidar, an economist and an author; the father of the 1990s economic
reforms;
Egor Gaidar's mother was a granddaughter of the writer Pavel Bazhov
("Malakhitovaya shkatulka").

e.g.


2014-06-16 5:13 GMT-04:00 R. M. Cleminson <rmcleminson at post.sk>:

> I am forwarding this message on behalf of a colleague who is unable to
> post directly.
>
> A propos remark of  R. Cleminson: Likhachev's families are not related.
> Н.П. Лихачев и Д. С. Лихачев родством не связаны.
> Род Комаровых You may also find interesting the following publication
>  ''Первый съезд потомков рода Комаровых''. СПб., 1913. (as well as the book
> by N. A. Krivosheina) Среди Комаровых Владимир Леонтьевич Комаров,
> президент АН, чьим именем назван поселок Келломяки Ольга Дмитриевна Форш
> (урожденная Комарова) писательница Нина Алексеевна Кр и вошеина (урожденная
> Мещерская)  писательница Никита Александрович Мещерский,  профессор ЛГУ
> Кира Александровна Мещерская, доктор медицинских наук, была замужем за
> Дмитрием Максимилиановичем Штейбергом. etc. Good searching! Lyubov
> Osinkina. lyubov.osinkina at wolfson.ox.ac.uk
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
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>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
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>

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From John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK  Mon Jun 16 13:32:41 2014
From: John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK (John Dunn)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 13:32:41 +0000
Subject: A prophet is not without honour . . . especially in Costa Rica
Message-ID: <MON.16.JUN.2014.133241.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

The members of this list, having, as ever, their minds focused on higher things, will have better things to do than to follow a certain association football tournament currently being played in Brazil.  That being the case, you may not have noticed that among the players representing Costa Rica at that event is a gentleman who rejoices in the name of Yeltsin Tejeda.

John Dunn.

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From oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 16 13:58:38 2014
From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM (Oleksandr Spirin)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 06:58:38 -0700
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <bdd69dbe55ba41809f28871332e7d5b3@BY2PR08MB457.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MON.16.JUN.2014.065838.0700.OLEKSANDR.SPIRIN@YMAIL.COM>

Lansere family


On Wednesday, June 11, 2014 9:34 PM, Mila Saskova-Pierce <msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU> wrote:
 


Dear Seelangsers, thank you for the thoughtful answers to my question concerning Russian culturally productive families.  I will make a list of them and post it later. And of course the list of the Czech families as well. (Havel family included!) 
And yes, I am looking for genetic as well as marriage formed ties.  After all family is the basic platform for emerging creativity as well as collaborative cultural production.  I plan to use this material for a unit on family (in a composition and conversation class), where students construct the family trees of famous Russian families  and make a tally of their accomplishments.  
 
Gratefully Mila S-P
 
From:SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Ivan S. Eubanks
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2014 5:36 AM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
 
PS

I forgot to mention Dziga Vertov (pseudonym for D. Kaufman), Mikhail Kaufman, and Elizaveta Svilova (married to D. Kaufman).

And having thought of this example, I've now some questions.  The Kaufman brothers were born in Poland, but they spent their adult lives living and working in the USSR, in Russia and Ukraine.  So we can't say they're Czech, but should they join the Russian
 list?

Also, is the list supposed to include culturally productive people who share genetic material, or culturally productive people who together populate a social institution called "family?"  In other words, does E. Svilova, who was a great film editor, count as
 a Kaufman or a Svilova? Does Sophia Tolstaya count as a Tolstoy or a Behrs? (And back to my previous tongue-in-cheek comment, does Catherine II count as a Romanov or a von Anhalt-Zerbst-Dornburg?)

If we're counting spouses as members of the same family, then Zinaida Gippius and Dmitri Merezhkovsky should go on this list for Russia (but under which surname?).  As should, of course, Nadezhda and Osip Mandelstam and Lilia and Osip Brik.

And what of Liubov' Mendeleeva?  A mark for Mendeleev or Blok?

On that subject, we could include Andrei Bely (pseudonym for Boris Bugaev) and his father, Nikolai Bugaev.

Let's not forget the Bulgakovs.

Some more filmmakers:  Sergei Bondarchuk, Fedor Bondarchuk, Natalya Bondarchuk.

Sergei Bodrov, Sergei Bodrov Jr.

As for infamous, some of the Tolstoys should count (I'm thinking of Ivan the American), and do the Ul'ianov brothers count?  And if we're considering family a social institution instead of shared genetic material, then under the infamous we could perhaps list
 the Baron van Heeckeren and his adopted son Georges-Charles de Heeckeren d'Anthes, although "culturally destructive" might apply better to the latter than "culturally productive."


Ivan S. Eubanks, Ph. D.
Editor, Pushkin Review
www.pushkiniana.org
Director, Center for Writing and Communication
New Economic School, Moscow
www.nes.ru
On 11/06/14 10:16, Anna Giust wrote:
What about Glinka on the Russian side? 
> 
>Anna Giust
> 
> 
>Il giorno 11/giu/2014, alle ore 03:26, Mila Saskova-Pierce ha scritto:
>
>
>
>Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>> 
>>Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
>>Department of Modern Languages
>>Other Languages Section Head
>>1219 Oldfather Hall
>>Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
>>Tel:  402 472 1336
>> 
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
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From upthera44 at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 16 14:33:11 2014
From: upthera44 at GMAIL.COM (dusty wilmes)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:33:11 +0400
Subject: Fwd: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and
 Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <CAOVwo0vc-kzRbk3gArsxPbGZ=enXJvQObvhg=uhVrOPAfE9R7w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.16.JUN.2014.183311.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

In Russian cinema:

Aleksei German Sr. and Jr.
Andrei / Avdotia Smirnova



On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 4:54 PM, Elena Gapova <e.gapova at gmail.com> wrote:

> The Gaidar Family:
> Arkady Gaidar, children's writer;
> his son Timur Gaidar, a military correspondent (was in the Bay of Pigs
> invasion);
> Egor Gaidar, an economist and an author; the father of the 1990s economic
> reforms;
> Egor Gaidar's mother was a granddaughter of the writer Pavel Bazhov
> ("Malakhitovaya shkatulka").
>
> e.g.
>
>
> 2014-06-16 5:13 GMT-04:00 R. M. Cleminson <rmcleminson at post.sk>:
>
> I am forwarding this message on behalf of a colleague who is unable to
>> post directly.
>>
>> A propos remark of  R. Cleminson: Likhachev's families are not related.
>> Н.П. Лихачев и Д. С. Лихачев родством не связаны.
>> Род Комаровых You may also find interesting the following publication
>>  ''Первый съезд потомков рода Комаровых''. СПб., 1913. (as well as the book
>> by N. A. Krivosheina) Среди Комаровых Владимир Леонтьевич Комаров,
>> президент АН, чьим именем назван поселок Келломяки Ольга Дмитриевна Форш
>> (урожденная Комарова) писательница Нина Алексеевна Кр и вошеина (урожденная
>> Мещерская)  писательница Никита Александрович Мещерский,  профессор ЛГУ
>> Кира Александровна Мещерская, доктор медицинских наук, была замужем за
>> Дмитрием Максимилиановичем Штейбергом. etc. Good searching! Lyubov
>> Osinkina. lyubov.osinkina at wolfson.ox.ac.uk
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
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>



-- 
Justin Wilmes
Ph. D. Candidate/Graduate Teaching Associate
Dept. of Slavic and E. European Languages and Literatures
Ohio State University

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From Kris.VanHeuckelom at ARTS.KULEUVEN.BE  Mon Jun 16 14:38:09 2014
From: Kris.VanHeuckelom at ARTS.KULEUVEN.BE (Kris Van Heuckelom)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 14:38:09 +0000
Subject: A prophet is not without honour . . . especially in Costa Rica
In-Reply-To: <FF910572F43550428E2696B32534B715039EABBF@CMS10-02.campus.gla.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <MON.16.JUN.2014.143809.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Not to mention the Honduran winger Boniek García (named after the legendary Polish international Zbigniew Boniek).

Kris Van Heuckelom

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of John Dunn
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2014 3:33 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] A prophet is not without honour . . . especially in Costa Rica

The members of this list, having, as ever, their minds focused on higher things, will have better things to do than to follow a certain association football tournament currently being played in Brazil.  That being the case, you may not have noticed that among the players representing Costa Rica at that event is a gentleman who rejoices in the name of Yeltsin Tejeda.

John Dunn.
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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Mon Jun 16 15:18:34 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 11:18:34 -0400
Subject: Fwd: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and
 Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <CAL+XsDs_rEBdxB+brpjkOxteEb5xGRbDxFAL0cxNrds3pn1_ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.16.JUN.2014.111834.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Then we should include Сергей Сергеевич Смирнов, Andrey's father, Avdotya' grandfather. Some of us grew up watching him on TV http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Смирнов,_Сергей_Сергеевич_(писатель)

The second message should be entitled "Все люди родственники": there's mentioned the third child of Надежда Николаевна Римская-Корсакова and Максимилиан Штейнберг (with an N, as in 'stone') http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Штейнберг,_Максимилиан_Осеевич in addition to the two I mentioned. 

Max's sister, Дина in Brushtein's memoir, also could be mentioned.


Alina

On Jun 16, 2014, at 10:33 AM, dusty wilmes <upthera44 at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> In Russian cinema: 
> 
> 
> Andrei / Avdotia Smirnova
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2014-06-16 5:13 GMT-04:00 R. M. Cleminson <rmcleminson at post.sk>:
> 
> I am forwarding this message on behalf of a colleague who is unable to post directly.
> 
> A propos remark of  R. Cleminson: Likhachev's families are not related.   Н.П. Лихачев и Д. С. Лихачев родством не связаны.
> Род Комаровых You may also find interesting the following publication    ''Первый съезд потомков рода Комаровых''. СПб., 1913. (as well as the book by N. A. Krivosheina) Среди Комаровых Владимир Леонтьевич Комаров, президент АН, чьим именем назван поселок Келломяки Ольга Дмитриевна Форш (урожденная Комарова) писательница Нина Алексеевна Кр и вошеина (урожденная Мещерская)  писательница Никита Александрович Мещерский,  профессор ЛГУ Кира Александровна Мещерская, доктор медицинских наук, была замужем за Дмитрием Максимилиановичем Штейбергом. etc. Good searching! Lyubov Osinkina. lyubov.osinkina at wolfson.ox.ac.uk
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
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From giulianovivaldi at HOTMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 16 14:59:21 2014
From: giulianovivaldi at HOTMAIL.COM (Giuliano Vivaldi)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 15:59:21 +0100
Subject: Fwd: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and
 Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <CAL+XsDs_rEBdxB+brpjkOxteEb5xGRbDxFAL0cxNrds3pn1_ug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.16.JUN.2014.155921.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

German Sr's father was, of course, Yuri German - quite a significant Soviet writer and playwright. The sons of both Sergei Bondarchuk (Fyodor) and Andrey Khrzhanovsky (Ilya) have also followed in their parents footsteps.  

Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 18:33:11 +0400
From: upthera44 at GMAIL.COM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Fwd: [SEELANGS] Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU

In Russian cinema: 
Aleksei German Sr. and Jr. 
Andrei / Avdotia Smirnova



 		 	   		  
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From 000000151be55019-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UA.EDU  Mon Jun 16 18:07:11 2014
From: 000000151be55019-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UA.EDU (Joseph Schlegel)
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 11:07:11 -0700
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <12bc2c82db00443a81a0128c83139d49@BY2PR08MB457.namprd08.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <MON.16.JUN.2014.110711.0700.JOSEPHSCHLEGEL@YAHOO.COM>

There's also the Durov family in the Russian/Soviet circus.

The Durovs – Russiapedia Entertainment Prominent Russians

 
   The Durovs – Russiapedia Entertainment Prominent Rus...
The Durov family, animal-trainers and clowns, talented naturalists, outstanding satirists and public figures, have put great effort into establishing the Russi...  
View on russiapedia.rt.com Preview by Yahoo  
  


Joseph Schlegel
PhD Candidate
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures (University of Toronto)



On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:27 PM, Mila Saskova-Pierce <msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU> wrote:
 


 
Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov, Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
 
Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
Department of Modern Languages
Other Languages Section Head
1219 Oldfather Hall
Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
Tel:  402 472 1336
 
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From obukhina at ACLS.ORG  Tue Jun 17 01:01:52 2014
From: obukhina at ACLS.ORG (Olga Bukhina)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 01:01:52 +0000
Subject: A new issue of "Bridge-MOCT",
 the newsletter of the International Association for the
 Humanities, is out (Vol. 3, No. 6 (18), 2014)
Message-ID: <TUE.17.JUN.2014.010152.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

A new issue of "Bridge-MOCT", the newsletter of the International Association for the Humanities, is out (Vol. 3, No. 6 (18), 2014). It features materials about Association for Women in Slavic studies, a review of a recent conference "Social Sciences and Medical Innovations" in Tomsk (Russia), a note on the collection of essays in memoriam of M.I. Shapir, an essay about present-day Russian philosophy, and an overview of recent changes in universities in Crimea. It also features a new batch of essays and commentaries from the international seminar "Civil Society in the Humanities?" You can read the new issue online:  http://thebridge-moct.org/ Follow us on Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/#!/TheBridgeMoct
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From AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU  Tue Jun 17 08:04:46 2014
From: AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU (Anthony Anemone)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 12:04:46 +0400
Subject: Question
Message-ID: <TUE.17.JUN.2014.120446.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Can someone tell me how the holder of a US passport is supposed to respond
on a Russian anketa to the question:

Серия паспорта?

Thanks,

Tony

-- 
Tony Anemone
Associate Professor
The New School
72 Fifth Ave, 702
New York, NY 10011

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From jwilson at SRAS.ORG  Tue Jun 17 08:41:14 2014
From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 12:41:14 +0400
Subject: Question
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt8bwVDR9jAhvCwqoHuqMiQpoJsHNpEdTeKA9pEq9r29uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.17.JUN.2014.124114.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

It’s the passport “Type” – listed upper leftish on your passport information page. 

 

Most folks will have Type “P”

 

 

 

Josh Wilson
Assistant Director
The School of Russian and Asian Studies
Editor in Chief
Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
SRAS.org 
jwilson at sras.org

 

 

 

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Anthony Anemone
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 12:05 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Question

 

Can someone tell me how the holder of a US passport is supposed to respond on a Russian anketa to the question:  

 

Серия паспорта?  

 

Thanks,

 

Tony


 

-- 
Tony Anemone

Associate Professor

The New School

72 Fifth Ave, 702

New York, NY 10011

 

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From AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU  Tue Jun 17 08:45:46 2014
From: AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU (Anthony Anemone)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 12:45:46 +0400
Subject: Question
In-Reply-To: <036f01cf8a07$e6dc86d0$b4959470$@sras.org>
Message-ID: <TUE.17.JUN.2014.124546.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

THANKS!


On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 12:41 PM, Josh Wilson <jwilson at sras.org> wrote:

> It’s the passport “Type” – listed upper leftish on your passport
> information page.
>
>
>
> Most folks will have Type “P”
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh Wilson
> Assistant Director
> The School of Russian and Asian Studies
> Editor in Chief
> Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
> SRAS.org
> jwilson at sras.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Anthony Anemone
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 17, 2014 12:05 PM
> *To:* SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> *Subject:* [SEELANGS] Question
>
>
>
> Can someone tell me how the holder of a US passport is supposed to respond
> on a Russian anketa to the question:
>
>
>
> Серия паспорта?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Tony
>
>
>
> --
> Tony Anemone
>
> Associate Professor
>
> The New School
>
> 72 Fifth Ave, 702
>
> New York, NY 10011
>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
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-- 
Tony Anemone
Associate Professor
The New School
72 Fifth Ave, 702
New York, NY 10011

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From morsbergerg at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jun 17 16:02:06 2014
From: morsbergerg at GMAIL.COM (Grace Morsberger)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 12:02:06 -0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <1402942031.91578.YahooMailNeo@web162604.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.17.JUN.2014.120206.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

What about the writer Elena Gan and her daughter Helena Blavatsky, the
theosophist?

Grace Morsberger


On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Joseph Schlegel <
000000151be55019-dmarc-request at listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> There's also the Durov family in the Russian/Soviet circus.
>
> The Durovs – Russiapedia Entertainment Prominent Russians
> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
> [image: image]
> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
> The Durovs – Russiapedia Entertainment Prominent Rus...
> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
> The Durov family, animal-trainers and clowns, talented naturalists,
> outstanding satirists and public figures, have put great effort into
> establishing the Russi...
> View on russiapedia.rt.com
> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
> Joseph Schlegel
> PhD Candidate
> Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures (University of Toronto)
>
>
>   On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:27 PM, Mila Saskova-Pierce <
> msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU> wrote:
>
>
>   Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally
> productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov,
> Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the
> Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you
> know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you
> very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>
> Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
> Department of Modern Languages
> Other Languages Section Head
> 1219 Oldfather Hall
> Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
> Tel:  402 472 1336
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From giulianovivaldi at HOTMAIL.COM  Tue Jun 17 08:44:36 2014
From: giulianovivaldi at HOTMAIL.COM (Giuliano Vivaldi)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 09:44:36 +0100
Subject: Question
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt8bwVDR9jAhvCwqoHuqMiQpoJsHNpEdTeKA9pEq9r29uw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.17.JUN.2014.094436.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I have a UK passport but there is also no series number on UK passports. I simply leave this field in the form blank.

Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 12:04:46 +0400
From: AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU
Subject: [SEELANGS] Question
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Can someone tell me how the holder of a US passport is supposed to respond on a Russian anketa to the question:  
Серия паспорта?  
Thanks,
Tony

-- 
Tony AnemoneAssociate ProfessorThe New School72 Fifth Ave, 702New York, NY 10011



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From greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU  Tue Jun 17 17:06:12 2014
From: greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Svetlana Grenier)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 13:06:12 -0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <CAJ6ru2nAUkrz5a4v3Ve=ggjfmVLe+btYxGHvZ0wp-FSqyop-bQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.17.JUN.2014.130612.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Thank youk, Grace, for this reminder.
Yes, Elena Gan, her daughter Elena Blavatsky, and also Gan's brother,
Rostislav Fadeev, was famous as a general and political writer in the 1860s
and 1870s.  Dostoevsky argues with him in Diary of a Writer.  See, for
example, http://territa.ru/load/1-1-0-7231  Notably neither this biography,
no the one in Wikipedia.ru mentions the fact that Elena Gan was a famous
writer in her own right!  It turns out Fadeev's and Gan's nephew was the
Russian Prime Minister Sergei Iulievichh Witte.  Another one of Gan's
daughhters, Vera Petrovna Zhelikhovskaia (Madame Blavatsky's sister) was
also a well-known writer, particularly, of children's literature.

It looks like the world of Russian nobility was pretty small (mir tesen)!


On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Grace Morsberger <morsbergerg at gmail.com>
wrote:

> What about the writer Elena Gan and her daughter Helena Blavatsky, the
> theosophist?
>
> Grace Morsberger
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Joseph Schlegel <
> 000000151be55019-dmarc-request at listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>> There's also the Durov family in the Russian/Soviet circus.
>>
>> The Durovs – Russiapedia Entertainment Prominent Russians
>> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
>>  [image: image]
>> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
>>  The Durovs – Russiapedia Entertainment Prominent Rus...
>> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
>> The Durov family, animal-trainers and clowns, talented naturalists,
>> outstanding satirists and public figures, have put great effort into
>> establishing the Russi...
>>  View on russiapedia.rt.com
>> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
>>  Preview by Yahoo
>>
>>
>> Joseph Schlegel
>> PhD Candidate
>> Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures (University of Toronto)
>>
>>
>>   On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:27 PM, Mila Saskova-Pierce <
>> msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU> wrote:
>>
>>
>>   Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally
>> productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov,
>> Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the
>> Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you
>> know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you
>> very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>>
>> Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
>> Department of Modern Languages
>> Other Languages Section Head
>> 1219 Oldfather Hall
>> Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
>> Tel:  402 472 1336
>>
>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From morsbergerg at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jun 17 17:10:54 2014
From: morsbergerg at GMAIL.COM (Grace Morsberger)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 13:10:54 -0400
Subject: Famous and productive families in Russian and Czech histories
In-Reply-To: <CAKgkp9gR7vvLHeEHz6kyFdwruwC22nyOums1CdGGyp=CdjKJEQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.17.JUN.2014.131054.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Wow, thanks, Svetlana! I didn't know about the rest of Elena Gan's
family--fascinating stuff!

Grace


On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 1:06 PM, Svetlana Grenier <greniers at georgetown.edu>
wrote:

> Thank youk, Grace, for this reminder.
> Yes, Elena Gan, her daughter Elena Blavatsky, and also Gan's brother,
> Rostislav Fadeev, was famous as a general and political writer in the 1860s
> and 1870s.  Dostoevsky argues with him in Diary of a Writer.  See, for
> example, http://territa.ru/load/1-1-0-7231  Notably neither this
> biography, no the one in Wikipedia.ru mentions the fact that Elena Gan was
> a famous writer in her own right!  It turns out Fadeev's and Gan's nephew
> was the Russian Prime Minister Sergei Iulievichh Witte.  Another one of
> Gan's daughhters, Vera Petrovna Zhelikhovskaia (Madame Blavatsky's sister)
> was also a well-known writer, particularly, of children's literature.
>
> It looks like the world of Russian nobility was pretty small (mir tesen)!
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Grace Morsberger <morsbergerg at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> What about the writer Elena Gan and her daughter Helena Blavatsky, the
>> theosophist?
>>
>> Grace Morsberger
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Joseph Schlegel <
>> 000000151be55019-dmarc-request at listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> There's also the Durov family in the Russian/Soviet circus.
>>>
>>> The Durovs – Russiapedia Entertainment Prominent Russians
>>> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
>>>  [image: image]
>>> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
>>>  The Durovs – Russiapedia Entertainment Prominent Rus...
>>> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
>>> The Durov family, animal-trainers and clowns, talented naturalists,
>>> outstanding satirists and public figures, have put great effort into
>>> establishing the Russi...
>>>  View on russiapedia.rt.com
>>> <http://russiapedia.rt.com/prominent-russians/entertainment/the-durovs/>
>>>  Preview by Yahoo
>>>
>>>
>>> Joseph Schlegel
>>> PhD Candidate
>>> Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures (University of Toronto)
>>>
>>>
>>>   On Tuesday, June 10, 2014 9:27 PM, Mila Saskova-Pierce <
>>> msaskova-pierce1 at UNL.EDU> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>   Dear SEELANGERS, I am looking for the names of famous and culturally
>>> productive Russian and Czech families, such as Pushkin family, Mikhalkov,
>>> Tolstoy, on the Russian side, and Dvorak, Capek, Masaryk, and Benes on the
>>> Czech side.  Do you have any other names you could suggest?  And if you
>>> know of some infamous family, that might be interesting as well. Thank you
>>> very much.  Mila Saskova-Pierce
>>>
>>> Dr. Mila Saskova-Pierce
>>> Department of Modern Languages
>>> Other Languages Section Head
>>> 1219 Oldfather Hall
>>> Lincoln, NE 68588-0315
>>> Tel:  402 472 1336
>>>
>>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From rifkin at TCNJ.EDU  Tue Jun 17 21:29:02 2014
From: rifkin at TCNJ.EDU (Benjamin Rifkin)
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2014 17:29:02 -0400
Subject: Russian Jewish American Literature
Message-ID: <TUE.17.JUN.2014.172902.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers:

Some of you may find this interesting:

http://www.tabletmag.com/jewish-arts-and-culture/books/175906/russian-jewish-am-lit

Best wishes,

Ben Rifkin
The College of New Jersey


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From anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 18 13:39:04 2014
From: anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM (anne marie devlin)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 14:39:04 +0100
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.143904.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers
Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but would be very grateful for  precise information on this as I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Thanks in advance
Anne Marie

 		 	   		  
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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Wed Jun 18 13:55:56 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 09:55:56 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <DUB118-W50D0B0F3D940257AA60BA8FA100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.095556.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

anne marie devlin wrote:

> Dear Seelangers
>
> Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became
> known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but
> would be very grateful for precise information on this as I can't
> seem to find it anywhere.

Since there is no "académie anglaise" or equivalent, everyone pretty 
much does as they please; there is no "official" English.

Of course, you can make up your own definition by setting some 
organization as your standard. E.g., "since xx.xx.xxxx, the U.S. State 
Department has dropped the article." That makes it much easier to do the 
research.

This article may be of use in that research:
<http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/2006/460614.shtml>

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From hristova.maria at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 18 16:00:57 2014
From: hristova.maria at GMAIL.COM (Maria Hristova)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 12:00:57 -0400
Subject: Translation project
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.120057.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear colleagues,

On behalf of a Russian colleague who is not on SEELANGS I’m posting an inquire about translating an article on Mandelshtam and Hodasevich. It seems like there might be some renumeration, but I imagine it would be small. Please contact me off list at hristova.maria at gmail.com if you or someone you know might be interested in the project

-Maria

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From wdk.ist at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 18 16:33:57 2014
From: wdk.ist at GMAIL.COM (William Kerr)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 19:33:57 +0300
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <DUB118-W50D0B0F3D940257AA60BA8FA100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.193357.0300.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers ...

Anne Marie:

Several links to articles which may at least partially help answer your
question:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/aug/14/eu.commentanddebate

http://www.infoukes.com/faq/the_ukraine/

http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/03/world/terminology-of-nationalism.html

Best,

William Kerr
Koç Üniversitesi,
Istanbul




On 18 June 2014 16:39, anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Seelangers
>
> Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became known
> as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but would be very
> grateful for  precise information on this as I can't seem to find it
> anywhere.
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Anne Marie
>
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 18 17:26:02 2014
From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM (Oleksandr Spirin)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 10:26:02 -0700
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <DUB118-W50D0B0F3D940257AA60BA8FA100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.102602.0700.OLEKSANDR.SPIRIN@YMAIL.COM>

Dear Anne Marie,

'The Ukraine' was when Ukraine was a part of the USSR. From 1991(!) Ukraine(!) is an independent state.

With regards,
Oleksandr Spirin 


On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:39 PM, anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
 


 
Dear Seelangers

Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but would be very grateful for  precise information on this as I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Thanks in advance

Anne Marie


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From anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 18 21:52:22 2014
From: anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM (anne marie devlin)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:52:22 +0100
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <DUB118-W33193E6D7AD052B4CC934BFA100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.225222.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear all
Thanks for the replies so far.  I suppose I should have formed the question better as in when did Ukraine become the norm in English?  The newspaper articles will definitely help, William
Oleksander, the reason I guessed 1993 ad not the year of independence was because of the following:Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.«В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства, поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69)
I don't know - but would like to find out - if something similar happened with English, i.e did the Ukraine government request the change from the Ukraine to Ukraine?Also, if anyone knows, did a change take place in any other language?
Best
Anne Marie

From: anne_mariedevlin at hotmail.com
To: oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com
Subject: RE: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:49:30 +0100




Dear all
Thanks for the replies so far.  I suppose I should have formed the question better as in when did Ukraine become the norm in English?  The newspaper articles will definitely help, William
Oleksander, the reason I guessed 1993 ad not the year of independence was because of the following:Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.«В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства, поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69)
I don't know - but would like to find out - if something similar happened with English, i.e did the Ukraine government request the change from the Ukraine to Ukraine?Also, if anyone knows, did a change take place in any other language?
Best
Anne Marie
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 10:26:02 -0700
From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Dear Anne Marie,
'The Ukraine' was when Ukraine was a part of the USSR. From 1991(!) Ukraine(!) is an independent state.
With regards,Oleksandr Spirin  

     On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:39 PM, anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
    

 


Dear Seelangers
Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but would be very grateful for  precise information on this as I can't seem to find it anywhere.
Thanks in advance
Anne Marie

 		 	   		  
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From vchernetsky at KU.EDU  Wed Jun 18 22:41:16 2014
From: vchernetsky at KU.EDU (Chernetsky, Vitaly A)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:41:16 +0000
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <DUB118-W8E792CD79C201A87B2D90FA100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.224116.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Anne-Marie,

As the BBC article below illustrates, it was the formal request of the government of Ukraine to drop the article in 1991. No article is used in the official English-language version of the Ukrainian Declaration of Independence and Constitution. 

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18233844

As Paul Gallagher indicated earlier, there is no single official norm of English usage, thus we can only speak of statistical trends and preferences adopted by such bodies as the UN, the US Board of Geographic Names, etc., all of which have endorsed the use without the definite article. As the Google Ngrams below illustrates, the shift in preference fully occurred circa 1993, with the English-speaking world taking a little time to heed Ukraine's requests:

https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=in+Ukraine%2Cin+the+Ukraine&year_start=1961&year_end=2013&corpus=0&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cin%20Ukraine%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cin%20the%20Ukraine%3B%2Cc0

Best,

Vitaly Chernetsky

---------------------------------------------------------
Vitaly Chernetsky
Associate Professor
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
University of Kansas
2140 Wescoe Hall, 1445 Jayhawk Blvd.
Lawrence, KS 66045-7594
(785) 864-2359
vchernetsky at ku.edu
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of anne marie devlin [anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:52 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

Dear all

Thanks for the replies so far.  I suppose I should have formed the question better as in when did Ukraine become the norm in English?  The newspaper articles will definitely help, William

Oleksander, the reason I guessed 1993 ad not the year of independence was because of the following:
Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.
«В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства, поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69)

I don't know - but would like to find out - if something similar happened with English, i.e did the Ukraine government request the change from the Ukraine to Ukraine?
Also, if anyone knows, did a change take place in any other language?

Best

Anne Marie


________________________________
From: anne_mariedevlin at hotmail.com
To: oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com
Subject: RE: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:49:30 +0100

Dear all

Thanks for the replies so far.  I suppose I should have formed the question better as in when did Ukraine become the norm in English?  The newspaper articles will definitely help, William

Oleksander, the reason I guessed 1993 ad not the year of independence was because of the following:
Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.
«В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства, поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69)

I don't know - but would like to find out - if something similar happened with English, i.e did the Ukraine government request the change from the Ukraine to Ukraine?
Also, if anyone knows, did a change take place in any other language?

Best

Anne Marie

________________________________
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 10:26:02 -0700
From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Dear Anne Marie,

'The Ukraine' was when Ukraine was a part of the USSR. From 1991(!) Ukraine(!) is an independent state.

With regards,
Oleksandr Spirin


On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:39 PM, anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:


Dear Seelangers

Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but would be very grateful for  precise information on this as I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Thanks in advance

Anne Marie


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From vchernetsky at KU.EDU  Wed Jun 18 23:07:50 2014
From: vchernetsky at KU.EDU (Chernetsky, Vitaly A)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 23:07:50 +0000
Subject: book on women in Ukraine
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.230750.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

Dr. Marian J. (Mar'iana) Rubchak, Professor Emerita at Valparaiso University, asked me to share the news that the book she edited, _Mapping Difference: The Many Faces of Women in Contemporary Ukraine_ (Berghahn Books, 2011) will be coming out in a paperback version from the same publisher this August. Another volume edited by her is scheduled for release by Berghahn in July 2015; a detailed announcement about it will be forthcoming in due course.

Best wishes,

Vitaly Chernetsky

---------------------------------------------------------
Vitaly Chernetsky
Associate Professor
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
University of Kansas
2140 Wescoe Hall, 1445 Jayhawk Blvd.
Lawrence, KS 66045-7594
(785) 864-2359
vchernetsky at ku.edu
---------------------------------------------------------

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From colkitto at ROGERS.COM  Wed Jun 18 22:57:23 2014
From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (Robert Orr)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 18:57:23 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <3CD59C0A4CAD5341B5BB7FBCE00163A8088318F9@EXCH10-MBX-02.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.185723.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

There is also the factor of different rates of the spread of "the Ukraine" as opposed to "Ukraine" in different parts of the Anglophone world, compounding the problems Paul mentioned.

"Ukraine" had already become commonplace in Canada while "The Ukraine" was still almost universal in Britain, and in the early 90's, I recall some British scholars being surprised at hearing "Ukraine".

It was also in 1993 that I remember Oleg Trubacev expressing his displeasure, in a private conversation, at the "ухорежущее" nature of "в Украине".

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 18, 2014, at 6:41 PM, "Chernetsky, Vitaly A" <vchernetsky at KU.EDU> wrote:
> 
> Dear Anne-Marie,
> 
> As the BBC article below illustrates, it was the formal request of the government of Ukraine to drop the article in 1991. No article is used in the official English-language version of the Ukrainian Declaration of Independence and Constitution. 
> 
> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18233844
> 
> As Paul Gallagher indicated earlier, there is no single official norm of English usage, thus we can only speak of statistical trends and preferences adopted by such bodies as the UN, the US Board of Geographic Names, etc., all of which have endorsed the use without the definite article. As the Google Ngrams below illustrates, the shift in preference fully occurred circa 1993, with the English-speaking world taking a little time to heed Ukraine's requests:
> 
> https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=in+Ukraine%2Cin+the+Ukraine&year_start=1961&year_end=2013&corpus=0&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cin%20Ukraine%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cin%20the%20Ukraine%3B%2Cc0
> 
> Best,
> 
> Vitaly Chernetsky
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Vitaly Chernetsky
> Associate Professor
> Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
> University of Kansas
> 2140 Wescoe Hall, 1445 Jayhawk Blvd.
> Lawrence, KS 66045-7594
> (785) 864-2359
> vchernetsky at ku.edu
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of anne marie devlin [anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:52 PM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
> 
> Dear all
> 
> Thanks for the replies so far.  I suppose I should have formed the question better as in when did Ukraine become the norm in English?  The newspaper articles will definitely help, William
> 
> Oleksander, the reason I guessed 1993 ad not the year of independence was because of the following:
> Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.
> «В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства, поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69)
> 
> I don't know - but would like to find out - if something similar happened with English, i.e did the Ukraine government request the change from the Ukraine to Ukraine?
> Also, if anyone knows, did a change take place in any other language?
> 
> Best
> 
> Anne Marie
> 
> 
> ________________________________
> From: anne_mariedevlin at hotmail.com
> To: oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com
> Subject: RE: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:49:30 +0100
> 
> Dear all
> 
> Thanks for the replies so far.  I suppose I should have formed the question better as in when did Ukraine become the norm in English?  The newspaper articles will definitely help, William
> 
> Oleksander, the reason I guessed 1993 ad not the year of independence was because of the following:
> Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.
> «В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства, поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69)
> 
> I don't know - but would like to find out - if something similar happened with English, i.e did the Ukraine government request the change from the Ukraine to Ukraine?
> Also, if anyone knows, did a change take place in any other language?
> 
> Best
> 
> Anne Marie
> 
> ________________________________
> Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 10:26:02 -0700
> From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> 
> Dear Anne Marie,
> 
> 'The Ukraine' was when Ukraine was a part of the USSR. From 1991(!) Ukraine(!) is an independent state.
> 
> With regards,
> Oleksandr Spirin
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:39 PM, anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> 
> Dear Seelangers
> 
> Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but would be very grateful for  precise information on this as I can't seem to find it anywhere.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Anne Marie
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                        http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET  Wed Jun 18 23:47:09 2014
From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (Jules Levin)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 16:47:09 -0700
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <3CD59C0A4CAD5341B5BB7FBCE00163A8088318F9@EXCH10-MBX-02.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.164709.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I understand that France is insisting we add the article 'The' to its 
name, Germany wants to be called 'Deutschland', and The Netherlands 
demands that we drop the article.  Amazing how speakers of a language 
without articles are so sensitive to the subtleties of English.  As a 
naive native speaker, I always thought that The Vatican and The Hague 
had a certain classy distinction with the article, but what do I know?
Jules Levin (now in big trouble?)
Los Angeles

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From ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU  Thu Jun 19 01:01:21 2014
From: ewb2 at CORNELL.EDU (E Wayles Browne)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 01:01:21 +0000
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <873A82C8-4899-477D-BCD0-900E533A9B3A@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.010121.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Once you go to the Google Ngram Viewer page, you can try it out on Russian material: between na Ukraine and v Ukraine, the form with V prevails over NA for only a few years, between 1997 and 2002.

--
Wayles Browne, Prof. of Linguistics
Department of Linguistics
Morrill Hall 220, Cornell University
Ithaca, New York 14853, U.S.A.

tel. 607-255-0712 (o), 607-273-3009 (h)
fax 607-255-2044 (write FOR W. BROWNE)
e-mail ewb2 at cornell.edu 
________________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list <SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU> on behalf of Robert Orr <colkitto at ROGERS.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 6:57 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

There is also the factor of different rates of the spread of "the Ukraine" as opposed to "Ukraine" in different parts of the Anglophone world, compounding the problems Paul mentioned.

"Ukraine" had already become commonplace in Canada while "The Ukraine" was still almost universal in Britain, and in the early 90's, I recall some British scholars being surprised at hearing "Ukraine".

It was also in 1993 that I remember Oleg Trubacev expressing his displeasure, in a private conversation, at the "ухорежущее" nature of "в Украине".

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 18, 2014, at 6:41 PM, "Chernetsky, Vitaly A" <vchernetsky at KU.EDU> wrote:
>
> Dear Anne-Marie,
>
> As the BBC article below illustrates, it was the formal request of the government of Ukraine to drop the article in 1991. No article is used in the official English-language version of the Ukrainian Declaration of Independence and Constitution.
>
> http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-18233844
>
> As Paul Gallagher indicated earlier, there is no single official norm of English usage, thus we can only speak of statistical trends and preferences adopted by such bodies as the UN, the US Board of Geographic Names, etc., all of which have endorsed the use without the definite article. As the Google Ngrams below illustrates, the shift in preference fully occurred circa 1993, with the English-speaking world taking a little time to heed Ukraine's requests:
>
> https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=in+Ukraine%2Cin+the+Ukraine&year_start=1961&year_end=2013&corpus=0&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2Cin%20Ukraine%3B%2Cc0%3B.t1%3B%2Cin%20the%20Ukraine%3B%2Cc0
>
> Best,
>
> Vitaly Chernetsky
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Vitaly Chernetsky
> Associate Professor
> Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
> University of Kansas
> 2140 Wescoe Hall, 1445 Jayhawk Blvd.
> Lawrence, KS 66045-7594
> (785) 864-2359
> vchernetsky at ku.edu
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of anne marie devlin [anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:52 PM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>
> Dear all
>
> Thanks for the replies so far.  I suppose I should have formed the question better as in when did Ukraine become the norm in English?  The newspaper articles will definitely help, William
>
> Oleksander, the reason I guessed 1993 ad not the year of independence was because of the following:
> Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.
> «В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства, поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69)
>
> I don't know - but would like to find out - if something similar happened with English, i.e did the Ukraine government request the change from the Ukraine to Ukraine?
> Also, if anyone knows, did a change take place in any other language?
>
> Best
>
> Anne Marie
>
>
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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Thu Jun 19 02:17:54 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:17:54 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A224FD.80601@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.221754.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Jules Levin wrote:

> I understand that France is insisting we add the article 'The' to its
> name, Germany wants to be called 'Deutschland', and The Netherlands
> demands that we drop the article.  Amazing how speakers of a
> language without articles are so sensitive to the subtleties of
> English.  As a naive native speaker, I always thought that The
> Vatican and The Hague had a certain classy distinction with the
> article, but what do I know? Jules Levin (now in big trouble?)

OK, does that explain why my second alma mater, The Ohio State 
University, insists on the article, but all the ignorant rubes at other 
schools are content to go without? ;-)

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From ksenia.kologrieva at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 19 02:57:55 2014
From: ksenia.kologrieva at GMAIL.COM (Ksenia Kologrieva)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 20:57:55 -0600
Subject: Russian Language E-Book for Heritage Learners - your contribution
 needed
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.205755.0600.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

We are working on an E-book for Russian heritage learners at our school
(different levels and ages, from 5 to 25 yo..). I would appreciate it if
you could think and share typical mistakes/vocabulary deficiencies that you
notice by your heritage students or your bilingual children.

Some examples:
САДИТЬСЯ в машину (не входить)
ПРЕДМЕТЫ в школе (не классы)
И ТО, И ДРУГОЕ (не оба)

Phrases and words that HLs often don't understand:
А ты не лопнешь?
Горсть
Заноза/посадить занозу
Калитка
Погреб
Так уж и быть
Закладка
Очки запотели
Чернее тучи
Его словно молнией ударило
Продлёнка
Тяп-ляп

Thanks in advance! I would really appreciate any ideas!
There are not so many study materials for heritage speakers and your help
is very valuable for us.

*Best regards,*
*Ksenia Kologrieva*

*​President & Founder​*

Cloudberry Language School

Phone: 773-942-6262

www.cloudberrylanguageschool.com

Find a Common Language!

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From nushakova at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 19 03:04:11 2014
From: nushakova at GMAIL.COM (Nataliya Ushakova)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:04:11 -0500
Subject: ACTR Russian Scholar Laureate secondary school
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.220411.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleague!

I am writing to remind you that a period for nominating an ACTR Russian Scholar Laureate is open. If you wish to nominate your best sophomore or junior secondary school Russian student for this award, you may do so until June 30, 2014. 

Your membership in ACTR must be current, but there is no fee for participation in this program. 
A PDF of the brochure and the nomination form can request from the Chair by email. nushakova at gmail.com

Please send your complete nomination materials to the address below

Nataliya Ushakova, Chair
ACTR Russian Scholar Laureate Award
Staten Island Technical HS
485 Clawson Street,
Staten Island, NY 10306
nushakova at gmail.com

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From pg at VOSTOK-WEST.DE  Thu Jun 19 05:57:26 2014
From: pg at VOSTOK-WEST.DE (Philip Gleissner)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 09:57:26 +0400
Subject: CFP: Princeton Graduate Student Conference (October 2014)
In-Reply-To: <CFC863C1.14CB2%pg4@exchange.Princeton.EDU>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.095726.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

CALL FOR PAPERS:

 

Dumpster Diving and Sustainability: Managing the Limited Resources of
Culture 

Princeton University, October 17-18, 2014


Annual Interdisciplinary Graduate Student Conference

Princeton University

Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures

 

Keynote Speaker: Catriona Kelly (University of Oxford)

 

“You can't imagine how stupid the whole world has grown nowadays. The things
that scribblers write.”

― Nikolai Gogol, Dead Souls

 

Dumpster Diving and Sustainability: Managing the Limited Resources of
Culture is an interdisciplinary conference dedicated to marginal and
outmoded art in all of its manifestations and returns in Slavic, Eastern
European, and Eurasian cultures. The conference aims at exploring our
repeated turn to the afterlives of ‘bad’ or exhausted cultural forms as a
way to cope with and interpret artistic and social changes.

 

In his literary studies, Iurii Tynianov famously pointed out a particular
tendency of literary evlotion: a literary or artistic fact that appears
worthless at one historical moment may, at another, become a productive
element of an aesthetic order. Taking Tynianov’s observation as a point of
our departure, we want to understand the overall function and impact of ‘bad
art’ on contemporary artists and societies, as well as on our own
disciplines, both as a fetishized avant-garde commodity and as a
recontextualization of historical forms/norms.

 

Our contention is that ‘bad art’ is a ubiquitous feature of artistic
production with its own intrinsic laws. With this in mind, this conference
proposes a critical interrogation of the ‘bad.’ The goal is not so much to
deconstruct or vindicate ‘bad art’ but rather to acknowledge the ‘bad’ as an
inalienable value that continues to sustain itself through various means of
cultural recycling.

 

We invite submissions from humanities and social sciencescholars. A short
selection of sample topics below indicates some potentialareas of inquiry:


* On the Invention of Bad Writing (Vasilii Rozanov, Valentin Kataev)
* Art as Commodity: Lubok, Feuilleton, Pulp
* The Aesthetic Education of Men: The Prostitute as Guardian in Literature
and Film (Crime an Punishment, Resurrection, Interdevochka, Wiktor
Grodecki’s Czech Films)
* Gastronomical Phenomenology (Bakhtin, Soldier Chonkin, Soldier Švejk)
*  Author as ‘Holy Fool’ from Venedikt Erofeev to Kirill Medvedev
* Authorship and Pastiche (Prigov, Kabakov)
*  The Importance of Being Earnest: Gogol’s Selected Passages from
Correspondence with Friends
* Serialized Novels, TV Series, and the Epic
* Eurovision, Balkan Beats, and the Construction of National Identity in
Post-Socialist Europe
 

Conference Format

The goal of the conference is to provide graduate students with the chance
to present their work to senior scholars in the field and to receive as much
constructive feedback as possible. All papers will be made available prior
to the conference through the conference website. At the conference, each
presenter will be given 15-20 minutes to present his or her paper, followed
by commentary by the panel discussant and open discussion.

Submission Details

We welcome submissions fromgraduate students across disciplines. Please
submit abstracts (200 words orless) to
princeton.slavic.conference at gmail.com. In addition, please attach a short CV
including current departmental affiliation, name, and e-mail. The deadline
for submissions is July 20, 2014. Please submit all files as Word documents.

We will be able to provide travel subsidies for the conference participants,
as well as lodging for the nights of October 16 and 17.

Any questions should be addressed to princeton.slavic.conference at gmail.com.

 

 




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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Thu Jun 19 08:37:55 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 09:37:55 +0100
Subject: Support the Study Center Vasily Grossman
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.093755.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>


> From: giovanni maddalena <gmaddal3 at hotmail.com>
> Subject: 5 € for freedom: support the Study Center Vasily Grossman
> 
> www.grossmanweb.eu
> 
> 
> 
> STUDY CENTER VASILY GROSSMAN
> 5 € for freedom:
> support us!
> 
> Dear collegues and dear friends,
> 
> On the fiftieth anniversary of Grossman's death (1964-2014), the Study Center Vasily Grossman is organizing the III INTERNATIONAL CONGRESS on Grossman with the title "Vasily Grossman’s Heritage: Originality of a twentieth century classic". The Congress will be held in Moscow from September 12th through the 14th in 2014. More than 40 speakers will be coming from many parts of the world to participate.
> Besides, the Study Center is completing the DIGITALIZATION of published and unpublished documents that the Center has collected during these years. There is a vast collection of articles and documents related to Grossman which will be available online within the year.
> The existence of the Study Center Grossman is decisive for preserving the memory of one of the most important authors of the twentieth century as well as furthering studies that help prevent the uprising of ideologies.
> We have estimated that we still need 10.000 euros for achieving our goals. So, your support is fundamental. You can help us with a donation through the site www.grossmanweb.eu where you click the DONATE button (credit card & PayPal).
> We ask for 5 EUROS from each of you. With a small amount of money we will reach our two key goals. Whoever donates more than 50 euros will be listed as 'benefactor' on our website.
> 
> Thank you for what you will do with giving and with circulating this message.
> 
> 
> The Study Center Vasily Grossman Team
> 
>  




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From jltaylor312 at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 19 13:43:35 2014
From: jltaylor312 at GMAIL.COM (Joey Taylor)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 21:43:35 +0800
Subject: JOB ANNOUNCEMENT: English Teachers Sought for Tuvan State
 University, Kyzyl
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.214335.0800.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

*Description of institution*

Tuvan State University (TuvSU) is looking for energetic and fun teachers of
English to teach a breadth of English language courses at the university
for students, professors, and staff, ranging from beginning English to
academic English and writing. Specialized courses may also be taught in any
discipline (mathematics, hard sciences, business, economics, agriculture,
etc.), depending on the teacher's comfort in teaching these courses as well
as expertize in the specific area.


Demand is high at TuvSU for native speakers of English and any teacher at
the university will find themselves quite busy.

Class times will mostly be held in the latter half of the day or evening
(beginning from 3:00-5:00 PM), though some classes may be taught during
regular academic hours. The university will work with teachers on
developing a schedule that is suitable for both parties.


More information on the position and about Tuva and TuvSU may be found
through this site:

http://www.mseng.tuvsu.ru/?q=node/37


*Requirements*

Native English speaker (current citizenship not an issue)

A desire to learn

Previous teaching experience will be considered an advantage.

Knowledge of Russian or Tuvan is suggested both for professional as well as
personal use, but is not a requirement for employment. **Courses in both
languages can be arranged for those interested.*

All candidates should be in good health on time of arrival into the Russian
Federation

No age restrictions apply


*Benefits*

*Contract: *Valid for one year (mid-August/September through June) with
option to renew. Summer opportunities for employment also available.

*Visa/official support:* TuvSU will provide teachers with an invitation for
a work visa, valid for one year and assist in residency registration as
well as visa extension.

*Salary:* Teachers will be paid per academic hour (45 minutes = 600
rubles). Monthly salary will depend on the teacher’s work load, which will
be up to the individual to decide. For example, if teachers teach 48 hours
per month, then the monthly salary will be 25,000 rubles, if 80 hours per
month, then 45,000 rubles, etc. Tax laws of the Russian Federation will
apply.

*Housing* cannot be assured by the university, though TuvSU will assist
teachers in finding affordable housing. The university does however host a
communal apartment for foreign teachers as well as guests of the
university, but space is available on a first come, first serve basis.

*Vacation time: *Teachers will have the opportunity to travel around Tuva
or Russia as they desire. However, class time cancelled for travelling will
not be reimbursed. The university observes all Russian and Tuvan holidays
and no classes will be scheduled on these dates.



*Those interested in the position should send a cover letter and resume
addressed to Sayzanna Sergeyevna Tovuu to: **intertsu at gmail.com*
<intertsu at gmail.com>* with the subject line “TuvSU English Teacher”. Review
of materials will begin immediately. Suitable candidates will be contacted
for an interview by Skype or similar means.*

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From anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 19 14:31:23 2014
From: anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM (anne marie devlin)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 15:31:23 +0100
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <09344143B73B614A84B7FF0C5817CABDACC208F3@MAILEX2.nkp.cz>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.153123.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Thanks again. Interesting to see that Czech was asked to change the preposition. I presume this happened in Polish as well. 
Equally of interest is that the change in name was requested in English before it was in Russia.
AM

From: Rita.Kindlerova at nkp.cz
To: anne_mariedevlin at hotmail.com
Subject: RE: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 09:19:05 +0000









Hello Anne Marie,
Czech language has no articles, so we – thanks God – have not such a problem. But last couple of years we are very often attacked from sides of many Ukrainians
 to use „v Ukrajině“ (in Ukraine) instead of „na Ukrajině“, even the Czech grammar doesn´t allow it, same as „jedu v Ukrajinu/do Ukrajiny“ instead of „jedu na Ukrajinu“ etc.
F.e. Czech ambassy in Kiev under such a pressure changed 2 years ago its letterhead from „na Ukrajině“ to „v Ukrajině“.
We must also very often explain (but without results) that toponymums like Kyjev, Lvov, Černovice… didn´t come to our language via Russian, but were accepted
 during history via Polish or some other languages, or they just correspond with Czech pronunciation. And there would be terrible problems after all with declinations… Which these "patriots" are not able to understand.
Even all Ukrainians who live in our country and are insisting on using „v Ukrajině“ etc are using „na Ukrajině“ etc, because it´s phonetically „friendly“.
Kind regards
 
 
Mgr. Rita Kindlerová
 
Národní knihovna ČR - Slovanská knihovna
National Library CR
- Slavonic Library
 
Klementinum
190

110 00 Praha 1

Česká republika/Czech Republic
 
Tel.: +420 221 663 360
e-mail:
rita.kindlerova at nkp.cz
http://www.nkp.cz
 
 
 
 


From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU]
On Behalf Of anne marie devlin

Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 11:52 PM

To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU

Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine


 

Dear all

 


Thanks for the replies so far.  I suppose I should have formed the question better as in when did Ukraine become the norm in English?  The newspaper articles will definitely help, William


 


Oleksander, the reason I guessed 1993 ad not the year of independence was because of the following:



Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.


«В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из
 Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства,
 поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69)


 


I don't know - but would like to find out - if something similar happened with English, i.e did the Ukraine government
 request the change from the Ukraine to Ukraine?


Also, if anyone knows, did a change take place in any other language?


 


Best


 


Anne Marie



 

 




From:
anne_mariedevlin at hotmail.com

To: oleksandr.spirin at ymail.com

Subject: RE: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:49:30 +0100

Dear all

 


Thanks for the replies so far.  I suppose I should have formed the question better as in when did Ukraine become the norm in English?  The newspaper articles will definitely help, William


 


Oleksander, the reason I guessed 1993 ad not the year of independence was because of the following:



Литературная норма современного русского языка: на Украине, с Украины.


«В 1993 году по требованию Правительства Украины нормативными следовало признать варианты в Украину (и соответственно из
 Украины). Тем самым, по мнению Правительства Украины, разрывалась не устраивающая его этимологическая связь конструкций на Украину и на окраину. Украина как бы получала лингвистическое подтверждение своего статуса суверенного государства,
 поскольку названия государств, а не регионов оформляются в русской традиции с помощью предлогов в (во) и из...» (Граудина Л. К., Ицкович В. А., Катлинская Л. П. Грамматическая правильность русской речи. М.: Наука, 2001. С. 69)


 


I don't know - but would like to find out - if something similar happened with English, i.e did the Ukraine government
 request the change from the Ukraine to Ukraine?


Also, if anyone knows, did a change take place in any other language?


 


Best


 


Anne Marie

 




Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 10:26:02 -0700

From: oleksandr.spirin at YMAIL.COM

Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU


Dear Anne Marie,


 


'The Ukraine' was when Ukraine was a part of the USSR. From 1991(!) Ukraine(!) is an independent state.


 


With regards,


Oleksandr Spirin 


 





On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:39 PM, anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM>
 wrote:

 




Dear Seelangers

 


Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but would be very
 grateful for  precise information on this as I can't seem to find it anywhere.


 


Thanks in advance


 


Anne Marie


 


 



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From adamovitchm at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 19 02:43:55 2014
From: adamovitchm at GMAIL.COM (Marina Adamovitch)
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 21:43:55 -0500
Subject: apartment in Moscow
Message-ID: <WED.18.JUN.2014.214355.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers,

A small apartment in the center of Moscow is available for rent for one or two semesters starting September 1. The apartment is fully furnished and is located near metro station Kropotkinskaya. Please inquire off list at newreview at msn.com. 

Marina Adamovitch

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Thu Jun 19 15:44:35 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 16:44:35 +0100
Subject: Teffi about to leave Odessa
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.164435.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

The Whites are abandoning Odessa.  Teffi herself is forgotten by most of her supposed friends and is only at the last moment offered a place on a small and not very seaworthy-looking boat, the Shilka.

Then a self-important fool turns up in her room, expecting Teffi, through all her wonderful connections, to be able to sort out passes for him and his family.  Teffi explains her own difficulties to him.  And he then says to her:
В таком случае мы едем с вами на… «Шилку», — решил П. — Вы обязаны нас устроить. Мы тоже не кто-нибудь. Россия последних моментов тоже кое-чем нам обязана. Слушайте: я бегу на разведки. Если ничего не удастся — вы нас устраиваете на «Шилку». Это ваш гражданский долг. Вы ответите перед историей. Жму вашу руку и верю вам.

What is this Россия последних моментов?  Is it something like "Russia, in her last (i.e. dying) moments…"  Or is it something less dramatic, e.g. "Contemporary Russia" ("Russia of these last days").

Also, I don't know how literally to understand Жму вашу руку.  Does he actually shake her hand at this point?  Or is it more like the Жму вашу руку with which people used to sign off at the end of a letter?

Our draft:
"In that case we'll go on the Shilka with you," P. resolved.  "You must get us on board too.  After all, it’s not as if we’re nobodies.  Russia, in her last moments, owes us something.  Listen – I'm going to go and look into a few things.  If I don't have any success, then you must get us onto the Shilka.  It's your civic duty.  History will be your judge.  Give me your hand – I place my trust in you."

All the best, and thanks,

Robert

Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD

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From John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK  Thu Jun 19 15:21:41 2014
From: John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK (John Dunn)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 15:21:41 +0000
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <DUB118-W3510F78CE9CBFAAA5DF98AFA130@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.152141.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

A (very) quick Internet search with regard to Polish suggests that there has been some discussion about switching from na Ukrainie to w Ukrainie, but that while the latter is now possible, the former predominates.  Others may or may not be able to confirm this.  It should be said, however, that Polish differs from some other languages, in that this use of 'na' is not really anomalous, since it follows a pattern that also applies to other near-by countries: na Litwie, na Łotwie, na Białorusi, na Węgrzech.

John Dunn.

________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of anne marie devlin [anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM]
Sent: 19 June 2014 16:31
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

Thanks again. Interesting to see that Czech was asked to change the preposition. I presume this happened in Polish as well.
Equally of interest is that the change in name was requested in English before it was in Russia.
AM

________________________________


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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Thu Jun 19 16:58:02 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 12:58:02 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <873A82C8-4899-477D-BCD0-900E533A9B3A@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.125802.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

That's "conservative" for you. BBC still says "Peking" while the US has gotten used to Beijing. It was the same story: the name was changed by request from the government, and it was awkward in the beginning but a couple of generations later it has become a norm. Trubachev's grandchildren will get used to it, if they are still in Russia.

Alina

On Jun 18, 2014, at 6:57 PM, Robert Orr <colkitto at rogers.com> wrote:

> "Ukraine" had already become commonplace in Canada while "The Ukraine" was still almost universal in Britain, and in the early 90's, I recall some British scholars being surprised at hearing "Ukraine".
> 
> It was also in 1993 that I remember Oleg Trubacev expressing his displeasure, in a private conversation, at the "ухорежущее" nature of "в Украине".
> 

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From anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 19 18:06:22 2014
From: anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM (anne marie devlin)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 19:06:22 +0100
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <D1A8B39F-56A8-4177-A2DF-51817A088547@american.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.190622.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear all
My interest is in linguistic variation and change and v/na + Ukraine and Ukraine/the  are both great examples.However what I'm preparing an article on at the moment is how the variable of v/na is being used to index political identities by those posting comments to online articles concerning the annexation of Crimea. 
I've just statistically analysed the data and preliminary results show , while indicating an overall movement towards v, that the choice is strongly predicated on political viewpoint. 
I'm presenting the paper at a sociolinguistic summer school in Dublin next month. If anyone's interested I'd be happy to share the paper after that.
With regards the use of w/na in Polish, a Polish friend related how the difference was explained to him in school. If the country used to be Polish, use na. Hence na. + Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine, but not Estonia. He could never understand why it was w + Siberia!
AM

> Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 12:58:02 -0400
> From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> 
> That's "conservative" for you. BBC still says "Peking" while the US has gotten used to Beijing. It was the same story: the name was changed by request from the government, and it was awkward in the beginning but a couple of generations later it has become a norm. Trubachev's grandchildren will get used to it, if they are still in Russia.
> 
> Alina
> 
> On Jun 18, 2014, at 6:57 PM, Robert Orr <colkitto at rogers.com> wrote:
> 
> > "Ukraine" had already become commonplace in Canada while "The Ukraine" was still almost universal in Britain, and in the early 90's, I recall some British scholars being surprised at hearing "Ukraine".
> > 
> > It was also in 1993 that I remember Oleg Trubacev expressing his displeasure, in a private conversation, at the "ухорежущее" nature of "в Украине".
> > 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From rmcleminson at POST.SK  Thu Jun 19 19:26:03 2014
From: rmcleminson at POST.SK (R. M. Cleminson)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 21:26:03 +0200
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <D1A8B39F-56A8-4177-A2DF-51817A088547@american.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.212603.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

No, the BBC has said Beijing for years.

V/na in Slavonic languages for territories is totally arbitrary, as is article/no article in English, masc./fem. in French, and so on.

The question is, if they can tell us how to speak English, can we tell them how to speak Ukrainian?

----- Pôvodná správa -----
Od: "Alina Israeli" <aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU>
Komu: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Odoslané: štvrtok, 19. jún 2014 17:58:02
Predmet: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

That's "conservative" for you. BBC still says "Peking" while the US has gotten used to Beijing. It was the same story: the name was changed by request from the government, and it was awkward in the beginning but a couple of generations later it has become a norm. Trubachev's grandchildren will get used to it, if they are still in Russia.

Alina

On Jun 18, 2014, at 6:57 PM, Robert Orr <colkitto at rogers.com> wrote:

> "Ukraine" had already become commonplace in Canada while "The Ukraine" was still almost universal in Britain, and in the early 90's, I recall some British scholars being surprised at hearing "Ukraine".
> 
> It was also in 1993 that I remember Oleg Trubacev expressing his displeasure, in a private conversation, at the "ухорежущее" nature of "в Украине".
> 

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_____________________________________________________________________

Vsetko o autach, vsetko pre motoristov - http://www.autosme.sk

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From af38 at COLUMBIA.EDU  Thu Jun 19 19:09:27 2014
From: af38 at COLUMBIA.EDU (Anna Frajlich-Zajac)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 22:09:27 +0300
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <DUB118-W48A19D82867F86CA058C6AFA130@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.220927.0300.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear All,

The general rule concerning v/na in Polish is widely understood as closed vs. open space. Of course sometimes  it may be metaphoric; sometimes emphatic.
Regards,
AF

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 19, 2014, at 9:06 PM, anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> Dear all
> My interest is in linguistic variation and change and v/na + Ukraine and Ukraine/the  are both great examples.However what I'm preparing an article on at the moment is how the variable of v/na is being used to index political identities by those posting comments to online articles concerning the annexation of Crimea. 
> I've just statistically analysed the data and preliminary results show , while indicating an overall movement towards v, that the choice is strongly predicated on political viewpoint. 
> I'm presenting the paper at a sociolinguistic summer school in Dublin next month. If anyone's interested I'd be happy to share the paper after that.
> With regards the use of w/na in Polish, a Polish friend related how the difference was explained to him in school. If the country used to be Polish, use na. Hence na. + Latvia, Lithuania and Ukraine, but not Estonia. He could never understand why it was w + Siberia!
> AM
> 
> > Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 12:58:02 -0400
> > From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU
> > Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
> > To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > 
> > That's "conservative" for you. BBC still says "Peking" while the US has gotten used to Beijing. It was the same story: the name was changed by request from the government, and it was awkward in the beginning but a couple of generations later it has become a norm. Trubachev's grandchildren will get used to it, if they are still in Russia.
> > 
> > Alina
> > 
> > On Jun 18, 2014, at 6:57 PM, Robert Orr <colkitto at rogers.com> wrote:
> > 
> > > "Ukraine" had already become commonplace in Canada while "The Ukraine" was still almost universal in Britain, and in the early 90's, I recall some British scholars being surprised at hearing "Ukraine".
> > > 
> > > It was also in 1993 that I remember Oleg Trubacev expressing his displeasure, in a private conversation, at the "ухорежущее" nature of "в Украине".
> > > 
> > 
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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Thu Jun 19 20:04:09 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 16:04:09 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <320485718.21434.1403205963802.JavaMail.root@mbox01.in.post.sk>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.160409.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

R. M. Cleminson wrote:

> No, the BBC has said Beijing for years.

I expect they still say "Peking duck," though...

And of course "Peiping Tom," not "Beijing Tom." ;-)

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET  Thu Jun 19 20:22:19 2014
From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (Jules Levin)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 13:22:19 -0700
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A34239.1010404@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.132219.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

On 19.06.2014 13:04, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
> R. M. Cleminson wrote:
>
>> No, the BBC has said Beijing for years.
>
> I expect they still say "Peking duck," though...

Don't know about BBC and Peking, but apparently the GB Foreign Office 
continued to use Constantinople  long after the name was changed to 
Istanbul, and supposedly informed the Turks that the English name would 
be kept, whatever the Turks call it.  Cf. our Venice for Venezzia, 
Florence for Firenza, Vienna for Wien.   Countries that are confident in 
their own identity would never think of advising speakers of other 
languages how to refer to their country.  Ukrainians should think about 
that.

JL  [forgive any Italian spelling errors--all from memory.]
PS Add to the list of countries with articles I mentioned in the 
previous email, The United States of America, which I believe GB still 
treats as a grammatical plural, unlike our singular.






>
> And of course "Peiping Tom," not "Beijing Tom." ;-)
>

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Thu Jun 19 21:11:57 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 17:11:57 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <DUB118-W50D0B0F3D940257AA60BA8FA100@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.171157.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Further reading for those who are interested:

<http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2009/0515/chicken-kyiv>
<http://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/Verbal-Energy/2014/0311/Ukraine-and-the-politics-of-transliteration>

<http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2014/03/07/kiev-vs-kyiv/>

"Chicken Kyiv" --   9,070 hits
"Chicken Kiev" -- 879,000 hits
(as of today)


As for "The" United States, of course it's a general grammatical rule 
that geographic names containing generics such as "states," "islands," 
etc. take the article, even when the generic is elided ("The Bahamas"). 
There's no option here. Conversely, those without generics generally do 
not take the article. "The Gambia," "the Congo," "the Ukraine," etc. are 
aberrations. (If they're literal translations from languages with 
articles, then why isn't it "the France" and "the Israel"?)

The Russian Federation
The Emerald City
The United States/US/USA
The United Kingdom/UK
The French Republic
The Falkland (Island)s
The Florida Keys
The European Union/EU
The Soviet Union/USSR
The Warsaw Pact
The Commonwealth of Independent States/CIS
The West Bank
The Rive Gauche/Left Bank
The Lower East Side (of Manhattan)
The Mississippi (River)
The Great Lakes
The Democratic People's Republic of Korea/DPRK
The People's Republic of China/PRC
The Federal Republic of Germany/FRG
The South of France (BE) but southern France (AE)
etc.

Organizations often lose the article when abbreviated, thus "the North 
Atlantic Treaty Organization," but not "the NATO" anymore. Similarly, 
"DOD," "DOE," and other departments of the U.S. government tend to lose 
the article in insider jargon but retain it among outsiders. Compare 
elliptical phrasings such as "Energy has to approve that," with "the 
Department of" elided.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From russellv at INDIANA.EDU  Thu Jun 19 21:22:45 2014
From: russellv at INDIANA.EDU (Valentino, Russell Scott)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 21:22:45 +0000
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A3521D.5010506@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.212245.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

And we mustn¹t forget Tolstoy¹s great opus The War and The Peace, since
everybody knew which war and which peace he had in mind.

On 6/19/14, 4:11 PM, "Paul B. Gallagher" <paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM>
wrote:

>Further reading for those who are interested:
>
><http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2009/0515/chicken-kyiv>
><http://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/Verbal-Energy/2014/0311/Ukraine-and-
>the-politics-of-transliteration>
>
><http://blogs.ft.com/beyond-brics/2014/03/07/kiev-vs-kyiv/>
>
>"Chicken Kyiv" --   9,070 hits
>"Chicken Kiev" -- 879,000 hits
>(as of today)
>
>
>As for "The" United States, of course it's a general grammatical rule
>that geographic names containing generics such as "states," "islands,"
>etc. take the article, even when the generic is elided ("The Bahamas").
>There's no option here. Conversely, those without generics generally do
>not take the article. "The Gambia," "the Congo," "the Ukraine," etc. are
>aberrations. (If they're literal translations from languages with
>articles, then why isn't it "the France" and "the Israel"?)
>
>The Russian Federation
>The Emerald City
>The United States/US/USA
>The United Kingdom/UK
>The French Republic
>The Falkland (Island)s
>The Florida Keys
>The European Union/EU
>The Soviet Union/USSR
>The Warsaw Pact
>The Commonwealth of Independent States/CIS
>The West Bank
>The Rive Gauche/Left Bank
>The Lower East Side (of Manhattan)
>The Mississippi (River)
>The Great Lakes
>The Democratic People's Republic of Korea/DPRK
>The People's Republic of China/PRC
>The Federal Republic of Germany/FRG
>The South of France (BE) but southern France (AE)
>etc.
>
>Organizations often lose the article when abbreviated, thus "the North
>Atlantic Treaty Organization," but not "the NATO" anymore. Similarly,
>"DOD," "DOE," and other departments of the U.S. government tend to lose
>the article in insider jargon but retain it among outsiders. Compare
>elliptical phrasings such as "Energy has to approve that," with "the
>Department of" elided.
>
>-- 
>War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
>--
>Paul B. Gallagher
>pbg translations, inc.
>"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
>http://pbg-translations.com
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From wfr at SAS.AC.UK  Thu Jun 19 23:56:44 2014
From: wfr at SAS.AC.UK (william ryan)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 00:56:44 +0100
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A34239.1010404@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.005644.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

So do the Chinese - see the English-language Chinese website 
china.org.cn : "Top 10 Peking Duck restaurants in Beijing". They also go 
to Peking University (PKU) if they are smart enough.
Will


On 19/06/2014 21:04, Paul B. Gallagher wrote:
> R. M. Cleminson wrote:
>
>> No, the BBC has said Beijing for years.
>
> I expect they still say "Peking duck," though...
>
> And of course "Peiping Tom," not "Beijing Tom." ;-)
>

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From jiangxunlu at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 20 00:23:24 2014
From: jiangxunlu at GMAIL.COM (jiangxunlu)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 08:23:24 +0800
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <D1A8B39F-56A8-4177-A2DF-51817A088547@american.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.082324.0800.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

But in English Beijing University is still called Peking University and its website is PKU.com

北京师范大学

在 2014-6-20，0:58，Alina Israeli <aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU> 写道：

> That's "conservative" for you. BBC still says "Peking" while the US has gotten used to Beijing. It was the same story: the name was changed by request from the government, and it was awkward in the beginning but a couple of generations later it has become a norm. Trubachev's grandchildren will get used to it, if they are still in Russia.
> 
> Alina
> 
> On Jun 18, 2014, at 6:57 PM, Robert Orr <colkitto at rogers.com> wrote:
> 
>> "Ukraine" had already become commonplace in Canada while "The Ukraine" was still almost universal in Britain, and in the early 90's, I recall some British scholars being surprised at hearing "Ukraine".
>> 
>> It was also in 1993 that I remember Oleg Trubacev expressing his displeasure, in a private conversation, at the "ухорежущее" nature of "в Украине".
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From nkulinka at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 20 01:01:05 2014
From: nkulinka at GMAIL.COM (Natalia Koulinka)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 01:01:05 +0000
Subject: collection of interviews with Belarusian journalists
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.010105.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>


Dear colleagues, 

I am writing to solicit your help in publishing a book of interviews with Belarusian journalists about the 1990s, which I co-authored with Natalia Fedotova, a fellow journalist and professor of journalism from Belarus. We have completed the manuscript and have undertaken fundraising to help cover publishing costs, for which purpose I launched a project on Kickstarter:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1489525387/soviet-journalism-after-the-fall-of-soviet-power

Please follow the link to read more about the book project, and consider contributing to this initiative. I thank you in advance for your interest and support!

Sincerely, 

Natalia Koulinka

History of Consciousness Program, University of California, Santa Cruz

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From votruba+slangs at PITT.EDU  Fri Jun 20 02:39:25 2014
From: votruba+slangs at PITT.EDU (Martin Votruba)
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 2014 21:39:25 -0500
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
Message-ID: <THU.19.JUN.2014.213925.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

> if they can tell us how to speak English, can we tell them how to speak Ukrainian?

If "we" could be broadened to "Germanic cultures," then something similar did happen. West Germany (the Federal Republic of Germany) pushed in the 1970s until it got Poland and Czechoslovakia (the USSR/Russian was involved, too) to switch from translating the name of the country as (Slovak examples) Nemecká spolková republika (NSR) to Spolková republika Nemecko (SRN). The linguists (prompted by the totalitarian regimes) brought up arguments similar to those of the English-speaking opponents of Ukraine without the definite article, but once the regimes got the deals from Bonn they wanted, the linguists shut up, although the Communist Party-controlled press was (probably told to be) rather slow to adopt the altered name and mostly opted for "West Germany".

An ironic moment was that while the two countries' linguists insisted how alien Spolková republika Nemecko was to Czech, Polish, and Slovak, the countries had routinely used (Slovak example) Socialistická federatívna republika Juhoslávia since the name came to be used in Yugoslavia, i.e., exactly the same structure that they proclaimed so "against the nature" of the languages at issue when Bonn "told them to how to speak" Czech, Polish, and Slovak while giving the country's formal name (for Russian, see the "political history" of the use of Германская Федеративная Республика/Федеративная Республика Германии/Федеративная Республика Германия).

A parallel moment in English is that while Ukraine/the Ukraine has been argued for about two decades now, the shift from, e.g., the Lebanon to [no article] Lebanon has taken place with hardly any attention.


Martin

votruba "at" pitt "dot" edu

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From maberdy at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 20 07:24:51 2014
From: maberdy at GMAIL.COM (Michele A Berdy)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 11:24:51 +0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <320485718.21434.1403205963802.JavaMail.root@mbox01.in.post.sk>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.112451.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

The question is, if they can tell us how to speak English, can we tell them how to speak Ukrainian?

You probably meant to write: If they can ask us to use a form that is, in their view, more respectful, can we ask them the same?
I guess so. Why not?
If someone asks me to call her Ms., I don't call her Miss; if someone asks me not to call him a Gypsy, I call him Roma; if someone prefers to be called an African-American instead of a Negro, I comply. I don't have to, but why would I want to offend someone? 

(Never in a million years will I get why this is a big deal.) 

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Fri Jun 20 08:15:17 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 04:15:17 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <00f001cf8c58$ba4d1be0$2ee753a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.041517.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Michele A Berdy wrote:

> The question is, if they can tell us how to speak English, can we
> tell them how to speak Ukrainian?
>
> You probably meant to write: If they can ask us to use a form that
> is, in their view, more respectful, can we ask them the same? I guess
> so. Why not? If someone asks me to call her Ms., I don't call her
> Miss; if someone asks me not to call him a Gypsy, I call him Roma; if
> someone prefers to be called an African-American instead of a Negro,
> I comply. I don't have to, but why would I want to offend someone?

Requests for respect are reasonable, and I agree with your response; 
it's the policy I try to follow.

> (Never in a million years will I get why this is a big deal.)

Because somehow some Ukrainians took it into their heads that the use of 
the article marks their country as a colony, not a real country, that 
it's a sign of disrespect.

As a native speaker of English, I never knew that. The first I heard of 
it was when the Ukrainians started complaining. Things may be different 
on the other side of the pond, but over here, no disrespect is intended 
or perceived.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From maberdy at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 20 08:36:14 2014
From: maberdy at GMAIL.COM (Michele A Berdy)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 12:36:14 +0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A3ED95.6070604@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.123614.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

... some Ukrainians took it into their heads that the use of the article marks their country as a colony, not a real country, that it's a sign of disrespect.

As a native speaker of English, I never knew that. The first I heard of it was when the Ukrainians started complaining. Things may be different on the other side of the pond, but over here, no disrespect is intended or perceived.

That's what sometimes makes this difficult. I always used the phrase "to gyp someone" and had no idea that it was from the word "Gypsy" and perceived as a slur. It's hard to change our speech patterns, especially when we didn't intend to offend, didn't know we were, and don't really see the point. I just figure that everyone has the right to be called what they prefer. 

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Fri Jun 20 08:55:45 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 09:55:45 +0100
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <014601cf8c62$b3807e60$1a817b20$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.095545.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Thank you, Michele! You have a gift for saying important things with a wonderful freshness and clarity.

R.

On 20 Jun 2014, at 09:36, Michele A Berdy <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:

> ... some Ukrainians took it into their heads that the use of the article marks their country as a colony, not a real country, that it's a sign of disrespect.
> 
> As a native speaker of English, I never knew that. The first I heard of it was when the Ukrainians started complaining. Things may be different on the other side of the pond, but over here, no disrespect is intended or perceived.
> 
> That's what sometimes makes this difficult. I always used the phrase "to gyp someone" and had no idea that it was from the word "Gypsy" and perceived as a slur. It's hard to change our speech patterns, especially when we didn't intend to offend, didn't know we were, and don't really see the point. I just figure that everyone has the right to be called what they prefer. 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD

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From John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK  Fri Jun 20 09:05:45 2014
From: John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK (John Dunn)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 09:05:45 +0000
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A3ED95.6070604@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.090545.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I don't think things are all that different on this side of the Atlantic.  It is perhaps true that the question hasn't been given the same airing in the U.K., perhaps in part because the Ukrainian community is smaller and has other concerns (most recently the Scottish First Minister's ill-timed praise of Vladimir Putin).  None the less my perception is that the media (and especially the print media, where they have time to think about these things) tend to prefer to drop the article and that those who continue to use it do so out of linguistic inertia, rather than with any intent to demean Ukraine's sovereignty.   My own view tends to be that the question is based on a misunderstanding, but that if Paris is worth a mass, than Ukraine is probably worth (at least) a dropped article.

However (as they used to say at this point in Pravda editorials),

there is a curious parallel of sorts: during the Falklands conflict in 1982 Margaret Thatcher and her entourage always used what was by then the somewhat archaic form 'The Argentine'.  It sounded odd, but I could never work out whether this usage was adopted deliberately to make some sort of point or whether it merely reflected the then Prime Minister's normal linguistic habits.  In any case I don't remember seeing the matter discussed, at least in the British media.

Going back to the в/на question, I think that the first time I saw в Украине used in the Russian media to make a political point was during the events of 2004, when the TV journalist Svetlana Sorokina, prevented by the sartorial conventions from following Vladimir Pozner's example of wearing an orange tie, chose this form in one of her talk shows.  Unfortunately I can't remember how many of the other participants followed her example.

John Dunn.    
________________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Paul B. Gallagher [paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM]
Sent: 20 June 2014 10:15
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

Michele A Berdy wrote:

> The question is, if they can tell us how to speak English, can we
> tell them how to speak Ukrainian?
>
> You probably meant to write: If they can ask us to use a form that
> is, in their view, more respectful, can we ask them the same? I guess
> so. Why not? If someone asks me to call her Ms., I don't call her
> Miss; if someone asks me not to call him a Gypsy, I call him Roma; if
> someone prefers to be called an African-American instead of a Negro,
> I comply. I don't have to, but why would I want to offend someone?

Requests for respect are reasonable, and I agree with your response;
it's the policy I try to follow.

> (Never in a million years will I get why this is a big deal.)

Because somehow some Ukrainians took it into their heads that the use of
the article marks their country as a colony, not a real country, that
it's a sign of disrespect.

As a native speaker of English, I never knew that. The first I heard of
it was when the Ukrainians started complaining. Things may be different
on the other side of the pond, but over here, no disrespect is intended
or perceived.

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From davidagoldfarb at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 20 12:16:05 2014
From: davidagoldfarb at GMAIL.COM (David A. Goldfarb)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 08:16:05 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <FF910572F43550428E2696B32534B715039F50C1@CMS10-02.campus.gla.ac.uk>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.081605.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Having been peripherally engaged in Polish-Ukrainian cultural affairs in the US at the Polish Cultural Institute for the past few years, I'd estimate that 3-4 years ago "w Ukrainie" was simply heard as an error in Polish, but now it is recognized as an assertion of a political stance, on the way to normalization in a few years.

David A. Goldfarb
www.davidagoldfarb.com



> On Jun 19, 2014, at 11:21 AM, John Dunn <John.Dunn at GLASGOW.AC.UK> wrote:
> 
> A (very) quick Internet search with regard to Polish suggests that there has been some discussion about switching from na Ukrainie to w Ukrainie, but that while the latter is now possible, the former predominates.  Others may or may not be able to confirm this.  It should be said, however, that Polish differs from some other languages, in that this use of 'na' is not really anomalous, since it follows a pattern that also applies to other near-by countries: na Litwie, na Łotwie, na Białorusi, na Węgrzech.
> 
> John Dunn.
> 
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of anne marie devlin [anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM]
> Sent: 19 June 2014 16:31
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
> 
> Thanks again. Interesting to see that Czech was asked to change the preposition. I presume this happened in Polish as well. 
> Equally of interest is that the change in name was requested in English before it was in Russia.
> AM
> 
> 
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From anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 20 08:43:59 2014
From: anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM (anne marie devlin)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 09:43:59 +0100
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A3ED95.6070604@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.094359.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I am from Belfast, north of Ireland, and the name given to that little part of the world is a hugely divisive. It is used by speakers to index a political/national identity and - although, as mentioned in a previous post, Britain, nor indeed Ireland has the equivalent of an academie francaise - language policies do exist and prescribe use in official domains.
The (non) use of the definite article is most certainly used to imply sovereignty or lack of. For example, referring to it as the north of Ireland suggests that it is a geographical region of the sovereign country of Ireland and therefore not part of Britain; whereas the term Northern Ireland is generally used by those who believe it to be a separate state from the rest of Ireland.  So I do understand why Ukrainians want the change. 
Incidentally, according to Krivoruchko (2008), the v/na question is a banned topic on some Russian language social media sites.
AM

> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 04:15:17 -0400
> From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> 
> Michele A Berdy wrote:
> 
> > The question is, if they can tell us how to speak English, can we
> > tell them how to speak Ukrainian?
> >
> > You probably meant to write: If they can ask us to use a form that
> > is, in their view, more respectful, can we ask them the same? I guess
> > so. Why not? If someone asks me to call her Ms., I don't call her
> > Miss; if someone asks me not to call him a Gypsy, I call him Roma; if
> > someone prefers to be called an African-American instead of a Negro,
> > I comply. I don't have to, but why would I want to offend someone?
> 
> Requests for respect are reasonable, and I agree with your response; 
> it's the policy I try to follow.
> 
> > (Never in a million years will I get why this is a big deal.)
> 
> Because somehow some Ukrainians took it into their heads that the use of 
> the article marks their country as a colony, not a real country, that 
> it's a sign of disrespect.
> 
> As a native speaker of English, I never knew that. The first I heard of 
> it was when the Ukrainians started complaining. Things may be different 
> on the other side of the pond, but over here, no disrespect is intended 
> or perceived.
> 
> -- 
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Fri Jun 20 16:05:04 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 12:05:04 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <DUB118-W66A9991E709540065884FFA120@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.120504.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

anne marie devlin wrote:

> The (non) use of the definite article is most certainly used to imply
> sovereignty or lack of. For example, referring to it as the north of
> Ireland suggests that it is a geographical region of the sovereign
> country of Ireland and therefore not part of Britain; whereas the
> term Northern Ireland is generally used by those who believe it to be
> a separate state from the rest of Ireland.  So I do understand why
> Ukrainians want the change.

The example you cite seems a clear one as far as it goes, but I'm not 
sure it's an example of the same phenomenon. In both forms for the six 
counties, the construction denotes a subset of a larger whole ("the 
northern /part/ of Ireland"). Moreover, the use of the article is 
automatically conditioned by the rest of the construction -- once he's 
made the decision between "north of" and "northern," the speaker/writer 
has no further options.

The same cannot be said of "(the) Ukraine," since there is no indication 
of which is the part and which is the whole, and there is no grammatical 
rule that would require the article; to the contrary, it's a bit odd to 
see it with a proper name. We've built up a tolerance by hearing it so 
many times over the years, but try it with some other proper names such 
as "the France" or "the Algeria" and you'll see just how exceptional it is.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 20 16:29:55 2014
From: anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM (anne marie devlin)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 17:29:55 +0100
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A45BB0.8060904@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.172955.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

While there are of course differences between the case of the 6 counties (also a politically loaded phrase) and Ukraine, the common factor is the use of 'the' to denote part of something else.  My interest is not, however, in the grammatical correctness or not, but in the use and perception of the vairables. From a personal perspective, with regards my part of the world, I consciously use only one variant and it has a negative effect on me when I hear the other.  My data strongly indicate that v/na cause similar reactions.  Arguments abound online re: its use.  I can also draw your attention to the reaction of Oleksander Spirin on this list when he stated that it's Ukraine and it has been independent since 1991.To paraphrase your slogan, Paul, prepositions and articles don't determine who's right!AM

> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 12:05:04 -0400
> From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> 
> anne marie devlin wrote:
> 
> > The (non) use of the definite article is most certainly used to imply
> > sovereignty or lack of. For example, referring to it as the north of
> > Ireland suggests that it is a geographical region of the sovereign
> > country of Ireland and therefore not part of Britain; whereas the
> > term Northern Ireland is generally used by those who believe it to be
> > a separate state from the rest of Ireland.  So I do understand why
> > Ukrainians want the change.
> 
> The example you cite seems a clear one as far as it goes, but I'm not 
> sure it's an example of the same phenomenon. In both forms for the six 
> counties, the construction denotes a subset of a larger whole ("the 
> northern /part/ of Ireland"). Moreover, the use of the article is 
> automatically conditioned by the rest of the construction -- once he's 
> made the decision between "north of" and "northern," the speaker/writer 
> has no further options.
> 
> The same cannot be said of "(the) Ukraine," since there is no indication 
> of which is the part and which is the whole, and there is no grammatical 
> rule that would require the article; to the contrary, it's a bit odd to 
> see it with a proper name. We've built up a tolerance by hearing it so 
> many times over the years, but try it with some other proper names such 
> as "the France" or "the Algeria" and you'll see just how exceptional it is.
> 
> -- 
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Fri Jun 20 16:52:07 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 12:52:07 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <DUB118-W66A9991E709540065884FFA120@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.125207.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

People are so fixated on v/na that they have not noticed the change that has occurred in the "reverse direction": Из Украины is normal even by the standards of those who will defend "на Украине" till their last breath. Not so long ago с Украины was normal. And this is a standard correlation в — из, на — с.

Alina

On Jun 20, 2014, at 4:43 AM, anne marie devlin <anne_mariedevlin at HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:

> 
> Incidentally, according to Krivoruchko (2008), the v/na question is a banned topic on some Russian language social media sites.
> AM
> 


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From townsend at PRINCETON.EDU  Fri Jun 20 17:56:45 2014
From: townsend at PRINCETON.EDU (Charles E. Townsend)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 13:56:45 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <00f001cf8c58$ba4d1be0$2ee753a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.135645.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

The question of the distribution of "v/na" in Czech and elsewhere in 
Slavic and the (in the case of Ukraine parallel) deletion or retention 
of the definite article "the" in English pales beside the broader issue 
of the need we feel to submit to language policing.  I guess I have to 
get used to just "Ukraine" by now, but who has mentioned the equally 
egregious loss of "the" in the case of "the Crimea," an entity which is 
certainly not a whole country.  It was always, at least in America, "the 
Crimea" until the Russians recently plucked it off.

The French don't seem to mind referring to their country as "la France" 
just as Peruvians seem content with "el Perú."  Let's hope article 
deletion won't affect "the Bronx."  They have enough problems there as 
it is.  But Americans, I think, may be particularly prone to language 
policing.  One of my pet peeves is the quite widespread replacement of 
"personnel" by the idiotic "human resources."  This type of inane 
prettification cheapens and impoverishes language.

Charlie Townsend
On 6/20/14 3:24 AM, Michele A Berdy wrote:
> The question is, if they can tell us how to speak English, can we tell them how to speak Ukrainian?
>
> You probably meant to write: If they can ask us to use a form that is, in their view, more respectful, can we ask them the same?
> I guess so. Why not?
> If someone asks me to call her Ms., I don't call her Miss; if someone asks me not to call him a Gypsy, I call him Roma; if someone prefers to be called an African-American instead of a Negro, I comply. I don't have to, but why would I want to offend someone?
>
> (Never in a million years will I get why this is a big deal.)
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Fri Jun 20 18:10:31 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 14:10:31 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <DUB118-W4419E9D7C26D486071AAA4FA120@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.141031.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

anne marie devlin wrote:

> While there are of course differences between the case of the 6 counties
> (also a politically loaded phrase) and Ukraine, the common factor is the
> use of 'the' to denote part of something else.  My interest is not,
> however, in the grammatical correctness or not, but in the use and
> perception of the vairables. From a personal perspective, with regards
> my part of the world, I consciously use only one variant and it has a
> negative effect on me when I hear the other.  My data strongly indicate
> that v/na cause similar reactions.  Arguments abound online re: its use.
>   I can also draw your attention to the reaction of Oleksander Spirin on
> this list when he stated that it's Ukraine and it has been independent
> since 1991.
> To paraphrase your slogan, Paul, prepositions and articles don't
> determine who's right!

You're right on that. In cases like this, speakers of a given language 
come to associate certain forms with certain demographic groups, and 
having done so, they associate the characteristics of those demographics 
-- real or imagined -- with the form. If one demographic is thought to 
be "smart" and uses a particular form, that form comes to be a marker of 
intelligence (though of course it won't correlate with standardized IQ 
test results). Grammar and logic are notoriously poor predictors of 
which form will be a marker of intelligence or other nonlinguistic features.

In the case of Ireland, as you know, certain forms are associated with 
Protestants and their allies, and certain forms are associated with 
Catholics and their allies. When I said "six counties," I was trying to 
be as impartial as possible, but I should have known that no matter how 
I expressed myself, anyone from that black-and-white environment would 
have put my speech under the microscope and discovered my true identity 
(I hope you got it right!).

In the case of Ukraine, the nationalists will want everyone -- even 
foreigners like us -- to take their side and declare themselves as 
allies. The real argument isn't the silly one about the use of the 
article per se, but about whether we declare ourselves as "with them" or 
"against them." They could just as easily have picked some other marker, 
which would have been equally meaningless to us but served just as well 
as a declaration of our affinity.

Since we have little stake in their fight, we English speakers will be 
sloppy and inconsistent in our declarations of affiliation. The use or 
omission of the article in English is a poor marker of where we stand, 
and the trend toward omission is a gradual one, not attributable to any 
particular date or event. A generation from now, none of us will use it 
-- not because we will all have taken the nationalist side, but mostly 
because the omission is consistent with the treatment of other place 
names (it's easier not to make an exception). And it will still be a 
poor marker of affiliation among English speakers. There are thousands 
of place names with no articles and no status as independent countries, 
from Appalachia to Bavaria to Siberia. Most English speakers will omit 
it only because they've gotten used to hearing it omitted, just as the 
previous generation used it because they got used to hearing it used, 
and neither has any awareness that they are taking sides. It reminds me 
of someone who accidentally wears the wrong color on a gang turf and is 
mistaken for a member of a rival gang. "Who knew?"

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET  Fri Jun 20 18:03:33 2014
From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (Jules Levin)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 11:03:33 -0700
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <B7384F34-4F51-48C2-A075-2D1252446339@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.110333.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Everyone arguing from personal address among individuals is missing the 
point.  Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to 
African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor is 
rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to my 
own family members in the privacy of my home.
The fact is that a mature country self-confident in its identity does 
not concern itself with the grammatical details of how its neighbor 
speaks its name.    Countries that worry about such things are behaving 
like hypersensitive teenagers.  I realize that now the correct 
response--Oh grow up!--would be considered child abuse, but...
Jules (chalk it up to Alzheimers) Levin

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From vchernetsky at KU.EDU  Fri Jun 20 18:25:49 2014
From: vchernetsky at KU.EDU (Chernetsky, Vitaly A)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 18:25:49 +0000
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A47775.4020305@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.182549.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

This thread is becoming increasingly a space for venting one's right to bigoted speech. Nobody is *FORCING* any one here to use one word/grammatical form and not the other; in the US at least, we have the First Amendment. However, the insistence on using vocabulary that the person(s) designated by this vocabulary find objectionable is hardly something to be proud of. I am saddened to see a number of colleagues digging in their heels in this stance.

Sincerely,

Vitaly Chernetsky
President, American Association for Ukrainian Studies

---------------------------------------------------------
Vitaly Chernetsky
Associate Professor
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
University of Kansas
2140 Wescoe Hall, 1445 Jayhawk Blvd.
Lawrence, KS 66045-7594
(785) 864-2359
vchernetsky at ku.edu
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Jules Levin [ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 1:03 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

Everyone arguing from personal address among individuals is missing the
point.  Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to
African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor is
rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to my
own family members in the privacy of my home.
The fact is that a mature country self-confident in its identity does
not concern itself with the grammatical details of how its neighbor
speaks its name.    Countries that worry about such things are behaving
like hypersensitive teenagers.  I realize that now the correct
response--Oh grow up!--would be considered child abuse, but...
Jules (chalk it up to Alzheimers) Levin

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From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET  Fri Jun 20 18:32:26 2014
From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (Jules Levin)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 11:32:26 -0700
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <3CD59C0A4CAD5341B5BB7FBCE00163A808831CD4@EXCH10-MBX-02.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.113226.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

On 20.06.2014 11:25, Chernetsky, Vitaly A wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> This thread is becoming increasingly a space for venting one's right to bigoted speech. Nobody is *FORCING* any one here to use one word/grammatical form and not the other; in the US at least, we have the First Amendment. However, the insistence on using vocabulary that the person(s) designated by this vocabulary find objectionable is hardly something to be proud of. I am saddened to see a number of colleagues digging in their heels in this stance.
>
> Sincerely,
>    
What is really really sad is the idea that the use of an article can be 
classified as "bigoted".  We live in insane times.
Jules Levin



> Vitaly Chernetsky
> President, American Association for Ukrainian Studies
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Vitaly Chernetsky
> Associate Professor
> Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
> University of Kansas
> 2140 Wescoe Hall, 1445 Jayhawk Blvd.
> Lawrence, KS 66045-7594
> (785) 864-2359
> vchernetsky at ku.edu
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic&  East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Jules Levin [ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET]
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 1:03 PM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>
> Everyone arguing from personal address among individuals is missing the
> point.  Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to
> African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor is
> rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to my
> own family members in the privacy of my home.
> The fact is that a mature country self-confident in its identity does
> not concern itself with the grammatical details of how its neighbor
> speaks its name.    Countries that worry about such things are behaving
> like hypersensitive teenagers.  I realize that now the correct
> response--Oh grow up!--would be considered child abuse, but...
> Jules (chalk it up to Alzheimers) Levin
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>    options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                          http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
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>
>    

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From greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU  Fri Jun 20 19:17:45 2014
From: greniers at GEORGETOWN.EDU (Svetlana Grenier)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 15:17:45 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A47E3A.8070009@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.151745.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I have to agree with Jules...


On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Jules Levin <ameliede at earthlink.net> wrote:

> On 20.06.2014 11:25, Chernetsky, Vitaly A wrote:
>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> This thread is becoming increasingly a space for venting one's right to
>> bigoted speech. Nobody is *FORCING* any one here to use one
>> word/grammatical form and not the other; in the US at least, we have the
>> First Amendment. However, the insistence on using vocabulary that the
>> person(s) designated by this vocabulary find objectionable is hardly
>> something to be proud of. I am saddened to see a number of colleagues
>> digging in their heels in this stance.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>>
> What is really really sad is the idea that the use of an article can be
> classified as "bigoted".  We live in insane times.
> Jules Levin
>
>
>
>  Vitaly Chernetsky
>> President, American Association for Ukrainian Studies
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> Vitaly Chernetsky
>> Associate Professor
>> Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
>> University of Kansas
>> 2140 Wescoe Hall, 1445 Jayhawk Blvd.
>> Lawrence, KS 66045-7594
>> (785) 864-2359
>> vchernetsky at ku.edu
>> ---------------------------------------------------------
>> ________________________________________
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic&  East European Languages and Literatures list [
>> SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Jules Levin [
>> ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET]
>>
>> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 1:03 PM
>> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>>
>> Everyone arguing from personal address among individuals is missing the
>> point.  Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to
>> African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor is
>> rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to my
>> own family members in the privacy of my home.
>> The fact is that a mature country self-confident in its identity does
>> not concern itself with the grammatical details of how its neighbor
>> speaks its name.    Countries that worry about such things are behaving
>> like hypersensitive teenagers.  I realize that now the correct
>> response--Oh grow up!--would be considered child abuse, but...
>> Jules (chalk it up to Alzheimers) Levin
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>    options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                          http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>    Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>    options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                          http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From msukholu at ECOK.EDU  Fri Jun 20 19:32:32 2014
From: msukholu at ECOK.EDU (Sukholutskaya, Mara E.)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 19:32:32 +0000
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <CAKgkp9gXGiOceW0aPpqEUz3J+iKotR39fW5YeSL6g740XNq0zw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.193232.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Me too

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Svetlana Grenier
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 2:18 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

I have to agree with Jules...

On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Jules Levin <ameliede at earthlink.net<mailto:ameliede at earthlink.net>> wrote:
On 20.06.2014 11:25, Chernetsky, Vitaly A wrote:
Dear Colleagues,

This thread is becoming increasingly a space for venting one's right to bigoted speech. Nobody is *FORCING* any one here to use one word/grammatical form and not the other; in the US at least, we have the First Amendment. However, the insistence on using vocabulary that the person(s) designated by this vocabulary find objectionable is hardly something to be proud of. I am saddened to see a number of colleagues digging in their heels in this stance.

Sincerely,

What is really really sad is the idea that the use of an article can be classified as "bigoted".  We live in insane times.
Jules Levin


Vitaly Chernetsky
President, American Association for Ukrainian Studies

---------------------------------------------------------
Vitaly Chernetsky
Associate Professor
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
University of Kansas
2140 Wescoe Hall, 1445 Jayhawk Blvd.
Lawrence, KS 66045-7594
(785) 864-2359<tel:%28785%29%20864-2359>
vchernetsky at ku.edu<mailto:vchernetsky at ku.edu>
---------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic&  East European Languages and Literatures l------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From e.gapova at GMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 20 19:49:17 2014
From: e.gapova at GMAIL.COM (Elena Gapova)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 15:49:17 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <98F51954673CE14DB9EB4C31D20687BE49E3A399@EXCHANGE2010-2.ecu.ecu>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.154917.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

In this case, "the article" is about group status - much in the same way as
one word in the name of "Washington Redskins"  has been for years (there
was an hour-long show on NPR on the issue just yesterday).

Elena Gapova


On 20 June 2014 15:32, Sukholutskaya, Mara E. <msukholu at ecok.edu> wrote:

>  Me too
>
>
>
> *From:* SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Svetlana Grenier
> *Sent:* Friday, June 20, 2014 2:18 PM
>
> *To:* SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>
>
>
> I have to agree with Jules...
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Jules Levin <ameliede at earthlink.net>
> wrote:
>
> On 20.06.2014 11:25, Chernetsky, Vitaly A wrote:
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> This thread is becoming increasingly a space for venting one's right to
> bigoted speech. Nobody is *FORCING* any one here to use one
> word/grammatical form and not the other; in the US at least, we have the
> First Amendment. However, the insistence on using vocabulary that the
> person(s) designated by this vocabulary find objectionable is hardly
> something to be proud of. I am saddened to see a number of colleagues
> digging in their heels in this stance.
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
> What is really really sad is the idea that the use of an article can be
> classified as "bigoted".  We live in insane times.
> Jules Levin
>
>
>  Vitaly Chernetsky
> President, American Association for Ukrainian Studies
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Vitaly Chernetsky
> Associate Professor
> Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
> University of Kansas
> 2140 Wescoe Hall, 1445 Jayhawk Blvd.
> Lawrence, KS 66045-7594
> (785) 864-2359
> vchernetsky at ku.edu
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
>
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic&  East European Languages and Literatures
> l-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From eb7 at NYU.EDU  Fri Jun 20 20:05:57 2014
From: eb7 at NYU.EDU (Eliot Borenstein)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 15:05:57 -0500
Subject: Dead-End Discussions (was the/Ukraine)
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.150557.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

The argument about (the) Ukraine seems to pop up on SEELANGS at regular intervals, like a swarm of linguistic locusts.  

I agree entirely with Michele Berdy. It doesn't matter if you agree with the logic behind the rejection of a given term by members of an ethnic (or other identity) group.  It's not your call.  Can't we just assume that, in the absence of entirely shared history and experience, no one can really determine what should or should not be found offensive by a group to which one does not belong?  Just call people what they want to be called, and call their countries what they want their countries to be called.  

It's not censorship, it's not even (horrors!) political correctness.  It's just linguistic etiquette combined with minimal empathy.

Here's hoping we can put this issue to rest for another five years,

Eliot Borenstein

Eliot Borenstein
Collegiate Professor
Professor, Russian & Slavic Studies
Director of Graduate Study for R&SS
Provostial Fellow
New York University           
19 University Place, Room 210
New York, NY 10003
(212) 998-8676 (office)
212-995-4163 (fax)
 
Editor, All the Russias
The Jordan Center for the Advanced Study of Russia
jordanrussiacenter.org
 
Blog:
jordanrussiacenter.org/all-the-russias/

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Fri Jun 20 20:45:10 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 21:45:10 +0100
Subject: Dead-End Discussions (was the/Ukraine)
In-Reply-To: <5918178959819943.WA.eb7nyu.edu@listserv.ua.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.214510.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Eliot and all,

Well, I have found much in the discussion extremely interesting.  I have learned a great deal from it and am grateful for most, if not quite all, of the contributions.

Especial thanks to Alina Israeli for her astute point about all the attention going to the chosen "markers" ("v" and "na") while most people didn't even notice that "s" had been replaced by "iz".  To Anne Marie Devlin for helping me to understand what it is like to live inside one of these conflict zones.  And to Paul Gallagher for his sensible and tolerant summary of many of the issues.

Controversies, however silly, don't spring up for no reason - and it is worth trying to understand them, and any part we may unwittingly be playing in perpetuating them.

All the best,

Robert

On 20 Jun 2014, at 21:05, Eliot Borenstein <eb7 at NYU.EDU> wrote:

> The argument about (the) Ukraine seems to pop up on SEELANGS at regular intervals, like a swarm of linguistic locusts.  
> 
> I agree entirely with Michele Berdy. It doesn't matter if you agree with the logic behind the rejection of a given term by members of an ethnic (or other identity) group.  It's not your call.  Can't we just assume that, in the absence of entirely shared history and experience, no one can really determine what should or should not be found offensive by a group to which one does not belong?  Just call people what they want to be called, and call their countries what they want their countries to be called.  
> 
> It's not censorship, it's not even (horrors!) political correctness.  It's just linguistic etiquette combined with minimal empathy.
> 
> Here's hoping we can put this issue to rest for another five years,
> 
> Eliot Borenstein
> 
> Eliot Borenstein
> Collegiate Professor
> Professor, Russian & Slavic Studies
> Director of Graduate Study for R&SS
> Provostial Fellow
> New York University           
> 19 University Place, Room 210
> New York, NY 10003
> (212) 998-8676 (office)
> 212-995-4163 (fax)
> 
> Editor, All the Russias
> The Jordan Center for the Advanced Study of Russia
> jordanrussiacenter.org
> 
> Blog:
> jordanrussiacenter.org/all-the-russias/
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                        http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------




Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD





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From thysentinel at HOTMAIL.COM  Fri Jun 20 21:11:35 2014
From: thysentinel at HOTMAIL.COM (Sentinel76 Astrakhan)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 21:11:35 +0000
Subject: Calling people names
In-Reply-To: <5918178959819943.WA.eb7nyu.edu@listserv.ua.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.211135.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I feel like I should finally chip in.

"Countries" and "people" are not homogeneous, nor uniform.  The case of Ukraine is probably the most glaring:  some people want to live one way and be called one thing, and others -- another way and another thing.  Which side has a deciding vote in the "B"/"HA" argument?  All I know is that Germany does not force other countries to call them "Deutschland" and Japan -- "Nippon."  One country that forces all others to call it "Cote d'Ivore" (instead of Ivory Coast and Берег Слоновой Кости), and it's ridiculous.

Based on the recent survey, 30% of Native Americans find the word "Redskins" offensive.  70% don't, and many of them actually think that "Fighting Sioux," "Redskins," and "Blackhawks" serve as tribute to their long-suffering nations.  Why should the majority succumb to the will of the minority, if nobody's rights are affected, only sensitivities?

I really wish this PC dreck would go away already.

Vadim Astrakhan
Vysotsky in English
www.vvinenglish.com



> Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 15:05:57 -0500
> From: eb7 at NYU.EDU
> Subject: [SEELANGS] Dead-End Discussions (was the/Ukraine)
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> 
> The argument about (the) Ukraine seems to pop up on SEELANGS at regular intervals, like a swarm of linguistic locusts.  
> 
> I agree entirely with Michele Berdy. It doesn't matter if you agree with the logic behind the rejection of a given term by members of an ethnic (or other identity) group.  It's not your call.  Can't we just assume that, in the absence of entirely shared history and experience, no one can really determine what should or should not be found offensive by a group to which one does not belong?  Just call people what they want to be called, and call their countries what they want their countries to be called.  
> 
> It's not censorship, it's not even (horrors!) political correctness.  It's just linguistic etiquette combined with minimal empathy.
> 
> Here's hoping we can put this issue to rest for another five years,
> 
> Eliot Borenstein
> 
> Eliot Borenstein
> Collegiate Professor
> Professor, Russian & Slavic Studies
> Director of Graduate Study for R&SS
> Provostial Fellow
> New York University           
> 19 University Place, Room 210
> New York, NY 10003
> (212) 998-8676 (office)
> 212-995-4163 (fax)
>  
> Editor, All the Russias
> The Jordan Center for the Advanced Study of Russia
> jordanrussiacenter.org
>  
> Blog:
> jordanrussiacenter.org/all-the-russias/
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
 		 	   		  
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From pyz at BRAMA.COM  Fri Jun 20 20:28:18 2014
From: pyz at BRAMA.COM (Max Pyziur)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 16:28:18 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <98F51954673CE14DB9EB4C31D20687BE49E3A399@EXCHANGE2010-2.ecu.ecu>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.162818.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

On Fri, 20 Jun 2014, Sukholutskaya, Mara E. wrote:

> 
> Me too

I don't agree with Jules.

Insisting on the right to use the article "the" before the country topnym 
of "Ukraine" in English is willful ignorance.

If you genuinely reflect on the use of topnyms in English and would like 
to abstract a set of general principles or theory, I offer the following:


For country names, "the" is used for collective entities or territories 
reflecting the use of a political system: "The Philippines," "the United 
Kingdom," "the United States," "the Czech Republic," and "the Russian 
Federation" (even though it isn’t a federation).

Use of "the" with a country toponym that doesn’t conform to the preceding 
rule generally indicates de facto allegiance to some sort of imperial 
claim or subordination. "the Ukraine" seems to be the most frequent 
occurrence, but occasionally and to a lesser degree, there are occurrences 
of "the Argentine" and "the Lebanon." (consider the usage of the last two 
during periods of elevated international conflict, especially during the 
1980s).

Max Pyziur
pyz at brama.com


>  
> 
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Svetlana Grenier
> Sent: Friday, June 20, 2014 2:18 PM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
> 
>  
> 
> I have to agree with Jules...
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Jun 20, 2014 at 2:32 PM, Jules Levin <ameliede at earthlink.net> wrote:
> 
> On 20.06.2014 11:25, Chernetsky, Vitaly A wrote:
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> This thread is becoming increasingly a space for venting one's right to bigoted speech. Nobody is *FORCING* any one here to use one word/grammatical form and not the other; in
> the US at least, we have the First Amendment. However, the insistence on using vocabulary that the person(s) designated by this vocabulary find objectionable is hardly
> something to be proud of. I am saddened to see a number of colleagues digging in their heels in this stance.
> 
> Sincerely,
>    
> 
> What is really really sad is the idea that the use of an article can be classified as "bigoted".  We live in insane times.
> Jules Levin
> 
> 
> Vitaly Chernetsky
> President, American Association for Ukrainian Studies
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Vitaly Chernetsky
> Associate Professor
> Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
> University of Kansas
> 2140 Wescoe Hall, 1445 Jayhawk Blvd.
> Lawrence, KS 66045-7594
> (785) 864-2359
> vchernetsky at ku.edu
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> ________________________________________
> 
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic&  East European Languages and Literatures l------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the
> archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and
> bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From young at UMBC.EDU  Fri Jun 20 21:33:50 2014
From: young at UMBC.EDU (Steven Young)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 17:33:50 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <alpine.LRH.2.11.1406201622280.14832@brama.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.173350.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Reminiscent of the issues surrounding в/на Украине is the use in Russian of Прибалтика to refer to the Baltic states.  I have been upbraided by a Lithuanian friend for using “Прибалтика,“ which apparently has Soviet connotations.  The current usage in Lithuanian is Baltijos šalys (“the Baltic countries”), and I’ve seen in some Russian media Страны Балтии (in place of Прибалтика), which seems to be a calque on the Lithuanian usage.

Steve Young
==
Dr. Steven Young
Associate Professor of Russian & Linguistics
Dept. of Modern Languages, Linguistics & Intercultural Communication
University of Maryland Baltimore County
1000 Hilltop Circle
Baltimore, MD 21250
Tel.  410-455-2117




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From eb7 at NYU.EDU  Fri Jun 20 22:00:14 2014
From: eb7 at NYU.EDU (Eliot Borenstein)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 17:00:14 -0500
Subject: Dead-End Discussions (was the/Ukraine)
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.170014.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

We Slavists are tough people.  We survived the Fall of the Yers, and we can get used to "v Ukraine."

Eliot Borenstein
Collegiate Professor
Professor, Russian & Slavic Studies
Director of Graduate Study for R&SS
Provostial Fellow
New York University           
19 University Place, Room 210
New York, NY 10003
(212) 998-8676 (office)
212-995-4163 (fax)
 
Editor, All the Russias
The Jordan Center for the Advanced Study of Russia
jordanrussiacenter.org
 
Blog:
jordanrussiacenter.org/all-the-russias/

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From bojanows at RCI.RUTGERS.EDU  Fri Jun 20 23:48:16 2014
From: bojanows at RCI.RUTGERS.EDU (Edyta Bojanowska)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 18:48:16 -0500
Subject: Dead-End Discussions (was the/Ukraine)
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.184816.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear All,

I too have been following this debate with a sinking heart, though I agree with Robert Chandler that it has had its illuminating moments. But I also share Vitaly Chernetsky's and Eliot Borenstein’s sentiments as to what the right thing to do is.

They got it right: whether or not one accepts Ukrainians’ rationale for wanting their country to be referred to a certain way, we should honor this and all such requests.  This is the only kind, respectful, and plainly decent thing to do.  But beyond that, in this of all lists, I would expect to see a wide consensus that particular uses of language have cultural, social, and political implications.  These implications are very real for Ukrainians, especially recently.

To Jules Levin I would submit a useful analogy with a transition to non-gendered language.  There was a time when the masculine was the default pronoun.  Women in the English-speaking world started to demand a revision of this immemorial linguistic custom, finding it disrespectful.  We all came around to the new way of using language.  Gripes about women’s insecurities, calling them “hypersensitive teenagers,” and otherwise advising them to “man up” were as inappropriate then as your comments about Ukrainian sensibilities are now. 

Regards to the list,
Edyta Bojanowska
Rutgers University

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From 0000001c0f9aa841-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UA.EDU  Sat Jun 21 00:03:49 2014
From: 0000001c0f9aa841-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UA.EDU (William Derbyshire)
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 2014 20:03:49 -0400
Subject: Dead-End Discussions (was the/Ukraine)
Message-ID: <FRI.20.JUN.2014.200349.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I have not jumped into this debate, but I must agree with my Rutgers  
colleague.
People have the right to ask to be called what they want. I had a colleague 
 who
refused on purpose to pronounce Croat as is normal in English. He said that 
 since
boat is pronounced in the way that it is, Croat should be pronounced Crote, 
 in my
opinion very insulting. Incidentally that particular colleague was black,  
and I once 
asked him how he would feel if I uttered the word "nigra". He was not  
amused, but
he stuck to his Crote.
W. Derbyshire
 
 
In a message dated 6/20/2014 5:49:44 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,  
bojanows at RCI.RUTGERS.EDU writes:

Dear  All,

I too have been following this debate with a sinking heart, though  I agree 
with Robert Chandler that it has had its illuminating moments. But I  also 
share Vitaly Chernetsky's and Eliot Borenstein’s sentiments as to what  the 
right thing to do is.

They got it right: whether or not one accepts  Ukrainians’ rationale for 
wanting their country to be referred to a certain  way, we should honor this 
and all such requests.  This is the only kind,  respectful, and plainly 
decent thing to do.  But beyond that, in this of  all lists, I would expect to 
see a wide consensus that particular uses of  language have cultural, social, 
and political implications.  These  implications are very real for 
Ukrainians, especially recently.

To  Jules Levin I would submit a useful analogy with a transition to 
non-gendered  language.  There was a time when the masculine was the default  
pronoun.  Women in the English-speaking world started to demand a  revision of 
this immemorial linguistic custom, finding it disrespectful.   We all came 
around to the new way of using language.  Gripes about  women’s insecurities, 
calling them “hypersensitive teenagers,” and otherwise  advising them to “
man up” were as inappropriate then as your comments about  Ukrainian 
sensibilities are now. 

Regards to the list,
Edyta  Bojanowska
Rutgers  University

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From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU  Sat Jun 21 03:42:53 2014
From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 09:42:53 +0600
Subject: Dead-End Discussions (was the/Ukraine)
In-Reply-To: <5918178959819943.WA.eb7nyu.edu@listserv.ua.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.21.JUN.2014.094253.0600.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

One more thing:
Please stop using the example of France as some kind of weapon in this
argument.

France is NOT a country that somehow is cool or confident enough not to
worry about the article in LA France and whether or not it translates.
Maybe we are but that's not the point.

France simply uses articles in front of almost ALL countries and, for good
measure, in front of "parts" as well as "wholes" -- in fact, pretty much in
front of all nouns ...
LA France, LE Bhoutan, LA Colombie, LE Venezuela, LE Cameroun, LE Vietnam,
LA Russie, L'Allemagne, L'Alaska, LA Bourgogne, LA côte ouest as well as LE
passeport and LA musique.

The presence of an article in "La France" has no significance whatsoever.
NOT the case when the word "the" is used in front of the word "Ukraine" and
not in front of the word "Russia."

-FR


-- 
Françoise Rosset
Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
Wheaton College, Norton MA 02766
*Spring 2014*: Resident Director of Wheaton-in-Bhutan program, Thimphu,
Bhutan
phone # in Bhutan: +975 1750 0593
frosset at wheatonma.edu
frosset at rtc.bt

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From willcohen at OUTLOOK.COM  Sat Jun 21 11:17:53 2014
From: willcohen at OUTLOOK.COM (William Cohen)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 11:17:53 +0000
Subject: Room for Rent in Moscow
Message-ID: <SAT.21.JUN.2014.111753.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

A cozy furnished room at Tretyakovskaya is available to rent immediately. The room is quite small, but Anna Akhmatova lived for almost 30 years in the exact same room in the apartment two floors below (see: http://www.akhmatova.org/museums/ordynka.htm) so who are we to complain? The flat itself has three bedrooms and a living room. It is located on the top floor of our building and thus has a great view and gets plenty of sunshine. The rent is 18,000 roubles/month + internet (around 150 rubles/month) and utilities (around 200-300 rubles month). If you are interested, please reply off-list to Sasha (in English or Russian) at: odynova.a at gmail.com.  		 	   		  
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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Sat Jun 21 18:06:49 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 14:06:49 -0400
Subject: Dead-End Discussions (was the/Ukraine)
In-Reply-To: <CAHZzm+ZQ_HKEUJAg8afffd_Xi6OHp58dWBL92kMdGGkbBmJdBQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SAT.21.JUN.2014.140649.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Here, here. 

It's Monsieur le Président vs. Mr President.


On Jun 20, 2014, at 11:42 PM, Francoise Rosset <frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU> wrote:

> One more thing:
> Please stop using the example of France as some kind of weapon in this argument.
> 

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From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET  Sun Jun 22 04:14:12 2014
From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (Jules Levin)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 21:14:12 -0700
Subject: Dead-End Discussions (was the/Ukraine)
In-Reply-To: <9114986533254741.WA.eb7nyu.edu@listserv.ua.edu>
Message-ID: <SAT.21.JUN.2014.211412.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

On 20.06.2014 15:00, Eliot Borenstein wrote:
> We Slavists are tough people.  We survived the Fall of the Yers, and we can get used to "v Ukraine."
>    
Slavists used to be tough people.  Having lived, visited, and spoken 
with the people of the USSR, they were a little wiser, a little more 
serious, a little more adult,than other academics.  Paradoxically, they 
also had a better sense of humor.  They knew a tempest in a teapot when 
they saw it.  They were also a little less lefty than other academics, 
seeing the socialist paradise for themselves.

To Edyta Bojanowska, who said "I would submit a useful analogy with a 
transition to non-gendered language."  You lost me with "non-gendered 
language", since I assume you are not talking about Hungarian or Finnish.

Best,
Jules Levin

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From srlorenz at FASTMAIL.FM  Sun Jun 22 06:17:37 2014
From: srlorenz at FASTMAIL.FM (Sarah Ruth Lorenz)
Date: Sat, 21 Jun 2014 23:17:37 -0700
Subject: Dead-End Discussions (was the/Ukraine)
In-Reply-To: <53A65814.5000705@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.21.JUN.2014.231737.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Never fear: Slavists are still tough people.
Maybe that’s all that remains to be said at the end of this “dead-end discussion."



Sarah Ruth Lorenz
Visiting Assistant Professor
Department of Germanic and Slavic Studies
Tulane University
New Orleans, LA  70118


On Jun 21, 2014, at 9:14 PM, Jules Levin <ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:

On 20.06.2014 15:00, Eliot Borenstein wrote:
> We Slavists are tough people.  We survived the Fall of the Yers, and we can get used to "v Ukraine."
>   
Slavists used to be tough people.  Having lived, visited, and spoken with the people of the USSR, they were a little wiser, a little more serious, a little more adult,than other academics.  Paradoxically, they also had a better sense of humor.  They knew a tempest in a teapot when they saw it.  They were also a little less lefty than other academics, seeing the socialist paradise for themselves.

To Edyta Bojanowska, who said "I would submit a useful analogy with a transition to non-gendered language."  You lost me with "non-gendered language", since I assume you are not talking about Hungarian or Finnish.

Best,
Jules Levin

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From jwilson at SRAS.ORG  Sun Jun 22 12:18:09 2014
From: jwilson at SRAS.ORG (Josh Wilson)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 16:18:09 +0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A19A6C.5080907@pbg-translations.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.161809.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers - 

I feel like I'm treading into dangerous waters here - but I'm genuinely
curious... 

Does anyone know if there have been studies on v/na usage inside Ukraine? 

I've met Ukrainians (on two occasions) that actually use "na." They were
from Crimea and East Ukraine, and both stated that it was not uncommon in
their view for Ukrainian citizens to use the construction. Arguments for
continuing the use of "na" included 1) that's the way it's always been
(granted, which is a flawed argument) and 2) it recalls Ukraine's "great
Soviet past."

Obviously these are not the habits and opinions of all Ukrainians, but
knowing that Soviet nostalgia is fairly common in many places of the former
USSR, I would be interested to know just how widespread it is in Ukraine and
how this might affect language use there (and how much diversity in this
remains in Ukraine), should anyone know of such a study....

Miru mir, 



Josh Wilson
Assistant Director
The School of Russian and Asian Studies
Editor in Chief
Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
SRAS.org 
jwilson at sras.org 





-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:56 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

anne marie devlin wrote:

> Dear Seelangers
>
> Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became 
> known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but 
> would be very grateful for precise information on this as I can't seem 
> to find it anywhere.

Since there is no "académie anglaise" or equivalent, everyone pretty much
does as they please; there is no "official" English.

Of course, you can make up your own definition by setting some organization
as your standard. E.g., "since xx.xx.xxxx, the U.S. State Department has
dropped the article." That makes it much easier to do the research.

This article may be of use in that research:
<http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/2006/460614.shtml>

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From es9 at SOAS.AC.UK  Sun Jun 22 12:51:22 2014
From: es9 at SOAS.AC.UK (Evgeny Steiner)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 16:51:22 +0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <003b01cf8e14$085a4ee0$190eeca0$@sras.org>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.165122.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Venerable  Colleagues,

These unending debates - V vs. NA - reminded me the previous round of,
should I call it, (The) Ukrainian linguistic independency, when some
activists demanded that 'Kiev' in all international maps should be changed
to 'Kyiv.' Can't resist to self-quote my modest (hope not too acrid)
remark. It seems after almost eight years it still has some sense.

Date: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:39 pm
Subject: [SEELANGS] Is Kiev/Kyiv the new acid test for Russo-centrism?


Dear all,

Does it mean that “grown up” nations can afford hearing their city names
“distorted” in every way (say, ‘Moscow’, ‘Moskau’, or ‘Mosukuwa’), but
the world should be overly accommodating to the sentiments of “newly
liberated” peoples? This interesting application of the Affirmative
Action might soon provoke certain activists in the academy to demand
that Jerusalem should be officially named Al-Quds.

Back to Kiev: if the idea is to eradicate the Russian colonial
linguistic domination, why not to return ad fontes? The first time this
city was mentioned in a written source was in the Hebrew Kievan Letter
(early 10 c.). It’s not our concern here if this “kahal shel Kiyyov”
(“the community of Kiev”) consisted of Khazarian or Judean Jews. They
settled there before the Slavs and called their city in their way.
Omeljan Pritsak who, with Norman Gelb, published this document
transliterated the Hebrew letters exactly in this way: ‘Kiyyov’. And,
after all, two Y together should look even more exclusive!


On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Josh Wilson <jwilson at sras.org> wrote:

> Dear Seelangers -
>
> I feel like I'm treading into dangerous waters here - but I'm genuinely
> curious...
>
> Does anyone know if there have been studies on v/na usage inside Ukraine?
>
> I've met Ukrainians (on two occasions) that actually use "na." They were
> from Crimea and East Ukraine, and both stated that it was not uncommon in
> their view for Ukrainian citizens to use the construction. Arguments for
> continuing the use of "na" included 1) that's the way it's always been
> (granted, which is a flawed argument) and 2) it recalls Ukraine's "great
> Soviet past."
>
> Obviously these are not the habits and opinions of all Ukrainians, but
> knowing that Soviet nostalgia is fairly common in many places of the former
> USSR, I would be interested to know just how widespread it is in Ukraine
> and
> how this might affect language use there (and how much diversity in this
> remains in Ukraine), should anyone know of such a study....
>
> Miru mir,
>
>
>
> Josh Wilson
> Assistant Director
> The School of Russian and Asian Studies
> Editor in Chief
> Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
> SRAS.org
> jwilson at sras.org
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:56 PM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>
> anne marie devlin wrote:
>
> > Dear Seelangers
> >
> > Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became
> > known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but
> > would be very grateful for precise information on this as I can't seem
> > to find it anywhere.
>
> Since there is no "académie anglaise" or equivalent, everyone pretty much
> does as they please; there is no "official" English.
>
> Of course, you can make up your own definition by setting some organization
> as your standard. E.g., "since xx.xx.xxxx, the U.S. State Department has
> dropped the article." That makes it much easier to do the research.
>
> This article may be of use in that research:
> <http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/2006/460614.shtml>
>
> --
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>



-- 
Professor Evgeny Steiner
Senior Research Associate
Sainsbury Institute for the Study of Japanese Arts and Cultures
SOAS, University of London
Brunei Gallery, B401
Russell Square
London WC1H 0XG
United Kingdom

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From sdsures at GMAIL.COM  Sun Jun 22 14:47:59 2014
From: sdsures at GMAIL.COM (Stephanie Briggs)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 15:47:59 +0100
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <CAN=3uF91yKVbTnwo1fakyO4KMQX+NmpR_LT0DBKRRgP0+sFpCA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.154759.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Max makes a good point re countries such as "the United Kingdom", "the
Philippines". I'm agreeing with him on those, because in those cases, that
is what those countries have chosen to call themselves.

(But isn't the Russian Federation correctly a "federated country", a
collection of federal objects with different levels of autonomies? Please
correct me if I'm wrong.)

Here's what he said in full, for reference, south of my signature.

Cheers!

​
*****************************
~Stephanie D. (Sures) Briggs

*Shorn Lambs: Hand-Knitted Scarves, Afghans, Throws and Baby Blankets *
http://shornlambs.etsy.com

My blog: http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk  <http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk/>
Twitter: @stephbriggsuk
Facebook:  <http://warmochfuzzy.etsy.com/>
http://www.facebook.com/stephanie.briggs3

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I don't agree with Jules.

Insisting on the right to use the article "the" before the country topnym
of "Ukraine" in English is willful ignorance.

If you genuinely reflect on the use of topnyms in English and would like to
abstract a set of general principles or theory, I offer the following:


For country names, "the" is used for collective entities or territories
reflecting the use of a political system: "The Philippines," "the United
Kingdom," "the United States," "the Czech Republic," and "the Russian
Federation" (even though it isn’t a federation).

Use of "the" with a country toponym that doesn’t conform to the preceding
rule generally indicates de facto allegiance to some sort of imperial claim
or subordination. "the Ukraine" seems to be the most frequent occurrence,
but occasionally and to a lesser degree, there are occurrences of "the
Argentine" and "the Lebanon." (consider the usage of the last two during
periods of elevated international conflict, especially during the 1980s).




On 22 June 2014 13:51, Evgeny Steiner <es9 at soas.ac.uk> wrote:

> Venerable  Colleagues,
>
> These unending debates - V vs. NA - reminded me the previous round of,
> should I call it, (The) Ukrainian linguistic independency, when some
> activists demanded that 'Kiev' in all international maps should be changed
> to 'Kyiv.' Can't resist to self-quote my modest (hope not too acrid)
> remark. It seems after almost eight years it still has some sense.
>
> Date: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:39 pm
> Subject: [SEELANGS] Is Kiev/Kyiv the new acid test for Russo-centrism?
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> Does it mean that “grown up” nations can afford hearing their city names
> “distorted” in every way (say, ‘Moscow’, ‘Moskau’, or ‘Mosukuwa’), but
> the world should be overly accommodating to the sentiments of “newly
> liberated” peoples? This interesting application of the Affirmative
> Action might soon provoke certain activists in the academy to demand
> that Jerusalem should be officially named Al-Quds.
>
> Back to Kiev: if the idea is to eradicate the Russian colonial
> linguistic domination, why not to return ad fontes? The first time this
> city was mentioned in a written source was in the Hebrew Kievan Letter
> (early 10 c.). It’s not our concern here if this “kahal shel Kiyyov”
> (“the community of Kiev”) consisted of Khazarian or Judean Jews. They
> settled there before the Slavs and called their city in their way.
> Omeljan Pritsak who, with Norman Gelb, published this document
> transliterated the Hebrew letters exactly in this way: ‘Kiyyov’. And,
> after all, two Y together should look even more exclusive!
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Josh Wilson <jwilson at sras.org> wrote:
>
>> Dear Seelangers -
>>
>> I feel like I'm treading into dangerous waters here - but I'm genuinely
>> curious...
>>
>> Does anyone know if there have been studies on v/na usage inside Ukraine?
>>
>> I've met Ukrainians (on two occasions) that actually use "na." They were
>> from Crimea and East Ukraine, and both stated that it was not uncommon in
>> their view for Ukrainian citizens to use the construction. Arguments for
>> continuing the use of "na" included 1) that's the way it's always been
>> (granted, which is a flawed argument) and 2) it recalls Ukraine's "great
>> Soviet past."
>>
>> Obviously these are not the habits and opinions of all Ukrainians, but
>> knowing that Soviet nostalgia is fairly common in many places of the
>> former
>> USSR, I would be interested to know just how widespread it is in Ukraine
>> and
>> how this might affect language use there (and how much diversity in this
>> remains in Ukraine), should anyone know of such a study....
>>
>> Miru mir,
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Wilson
>> Assistant Director
>> The School of Russian and Asian Studies
>> Editor in Chief
>> Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
>> SRAS.org
>> jwilson at sras.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:56 PM
>> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>>
>> anne marie devlin wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Seelangers
>> >
>> > Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became
>> > known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but
>> > would be very grateful for precise information on this as I can't seem
>> > to find it anywhere.
>>
>> Since there is no "académie anglaise" or equivalent, everyone pretty much
>> does as they please; there is no "official" English.
>>
>> Of course, you can make up your own definition by setting some
>> organization
>> as your standard. E.g., "since xx.xx.xxxx, the U.S. State Department has
>> dropped the article." That makes it much easier to do the research.
>>
>> This article may be of use in that research:
>> <http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/2006/460614.shtml>
>>
>> --
>> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
>> --
>> Paul B. Gallagher
>> pbg translations, inc.
>> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
>> http://pbg-translations.com
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Professor Evgeny Steiner
> Senior Research Associate
> Sainsbury Institute for the Study of Japanese Arts and Cultures
> SOAS, University of London
> Brunei Gallery, B401
> Russell Square
> London WC1H 0XG
> United Kingdom
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From jlwtwo at PRINCETON.EDU  Sun Jun 22 15:55:43 2014
From: jlwtwo at PRINCETON.EDU (Jennifer L. Wilson)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 15:55:43 +0000
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <CAL-T6KqEFR5m-5SSH06wOuCNYQTtvX-p=pPRVH54xwsGEfLmhg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.155543.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

"Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to
African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor is
rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to my
own family members in the privacy of my home."

I will be unsubscribing from this list.  I'm very saddened at the number of people who said "I agree with Jules" after a comment like this.  To Jules, how exactly do you refer to African-Americans in the privacy of your home?

Believe it or not, there are African-Americans in this field, and some of us are subscribed to SEELANGS.  Though I don't know how much longer either of those will be the case if these attitudes persist and are supported openly.

Sincerely,

Jennifer Wilson

________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Stephanie Briggs [sdsures at GMAIL.COM]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:47 AM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

Max makes a good point re countries such as "the United Kingdom", "the Philippines". I'm agreeing with him on those, because in those cases, that is what those countries have chosen to call themselves.

(But isn't the Russian Federation correctly a "federated country", a collection of federal objects with different levels of autonomies? Please correct me if I'm wrong.)

Here's what he said in full, for reference, south of my signature.

Cheers!

​
*****************************
~Stephanie D. (Sures) Briggs

Shorn Lambs: Hand-Knitted Scarves, Afghans, Throws and Baby Blankets
http://shornlambs.etsy.com<http://shornlambs.etsy.com/>

My blog: http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk <http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk/>
Twitter: @stephbriggsuk
Facebook: <http://warmochfuzzy.etsy.com/> http://www.facebook.com/stephanie.briggs3

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I don't agree with Jules.

Insisting on the right to use the article "the" before the country topnym of "Ukraine" in English is willful ignorance.

If you genuinely reflect on the use of topnyms in English and would like to abstract a set of general principles or theory, I offer the following:


For country names, "the" is used for collective entities or territories reflecting the use of a political system: "The Philippines," "the United Kingdom," "the United States," "the Czech Republic," and "the Russian Federation" (even though it isn’t a federation).

Use of "the" with a country toponym that doesn’t conform to the preceding rule generally indicates de facto allegiance to some sort of imperial claim or subordination. "the Ukraine" seems to be the most frequent occurrence, but occasionally and to a lesser degree, there are occurrences of "the Argentine" and "the Lebanon." (consider the usage of the last two during periods of elevated international conflict, especially during the 1980s).




On 22 June 2014 13:51, Evgeny Steiner <es9 at soas.ac.uk<mailto:es9 at soas.ac.uk>> wrote:
Venerable  Colleagues,

These unending debates - V vs. NA - reminded me the previous round of, should I call it, (The) Ukrainian linguistic independency, when some activists demanded that 'Kiev' in all international maps should be changed to 'Kyiv.' Can't resist to self-quote my modest (hope not too acrid) remark. It seems after almost eight years it still has some sense.

Date: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:39 pm
Subject: [SEELANGS] Is Kiev/Kyiv the new acid test for Russo-centrism?


Dear all,

Does it mean that “grown up” nations can afford hearing their city names
“distorted” in every way (say, ‘Moscow’, ‘Moskau’, or ‘Mosukuwa’), but
the world should be overly accommodating to the sentiments of “newly
liberated” peoples? This interesting application of the Affirmative
Action might soon provoke certain activists in the academy to demand
that Jerusalem should be officially named Al-Quds.

Back to Kiev: if the idea is to eradicate the Russian colonial
linguistic domination, why not to return ad fontes? The first time this
city was mentioned in a written source was in the Hebrew Kievan Letter
(early 10 c.). It’s not our concern here if this “kahal shel Kiyyov”
(“the community of Kiev”) consisted of Khazarian or Judean Jews. They
settled there before the Slavs and called their city in their way.
Omeljan Pritsak who, with Norman Gelb, published this document
transliterated the Hebrew letters exactly in this way: ‘Kiyyov’. And,
after all, two Y together should look even more exclusive!


On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Josh Wilson <jwilson at sras.org<mailto:jwilson at sras.org>> wrote:
Dear Seelangers -

I feel like I'm treading into dangerous waters here - but I'm genuinely
curious...

Does anyone know if there have been studies on v/na usage inside Ukraine?

I've met Ukrainians (on two occasions) that actually use "na." They were
from Crimea and East Ukraine, and both stated that it was not uncommon in
their view for Ukrainian citizens to use the construction. Arguments for
continuing the use of "na" included 1) that's the way it's always been
(granted, which is a flawed argument) and 2) it recalls Ukraine's "great
Soviet past."

Obviously these are not the habits and opinions of all Ukrainians, but
knowing that Soviet nostalgia is fairly common in many places of the former
USSR, I would be interested to know just how widespread it is in Ukraine and
how this might affect language use there (and how much diversity in this
remains in Ukraine), should anyone know of such a study....

Miru mir,



Josh Wilson
Assistant Director
The School of Russian and Asian Studies
Editor in Chief
Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
SRAS.org
jwilson at sras.org<mailto:jwilson at sras.org>





-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU>] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:56 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU<mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

anne marie devlin wrote:

> Dear Seelangers
>
> Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became
> known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but
> would be very grateful for precise information on this as I can't seem
> to find it anywhere.

Since there is no "académie anglaise" or equivalent, everyone pretty much
does as they please; there is no "official" English.

Of course, you can make up your own definition by setting some organization
as your standard. E.g., "since xx.xx.xxxx, the U.S. State Department has
dropped the article." That makes it much easier to do the research.

This article may be of use in that research:
<http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/2006/460614.shtml>

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                        http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------



--
Professor Evgeny Steiner
Senior Research Associate
Sainsbury Institute for the Study of Japanese Arts and Cultures
SOAS, University of London
Brunei Gallery, B401
Russell Square
London WC1H 0XG
United Kingdom
------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Sun Jun 22 17:15:27 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 18:15:27 +0100
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <5D1A301644CFC94DB8024EFF7017CA9711EADEAC@CSGMBX201W.pu.win.princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.181527.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Jennifer,

I very much regret that you are unsubscribing.  Please don't!

As you can see, those of us - Russians or English or White Americans - who have not suffered discrimination or oppression do truly, even with the best will in the world, often find it difficult to understand the intensity of feeling of those - Ukrainians or Irish Catholics or Black Americans - who have suffered discrimination and/or oppression.

Discussions like these, though sometimes frustrating and painful, can help us to understand our failings.

Please stay with us.

As a Russian friend has just written to me, "Mir miru!"

Robert

On 22 Jun 2014, at 16:55, "Jennifer L. Wilson" <jlwtwo at PRINCETON.EDU> wrote:

> "Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to
> African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor is
> rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to my
> own family members in the privacy of my home."
> 
> I will be unsubscribing from this list.  I'm very saddened at the number of people who said "I agree with Jules" after a comment like this.  To Jules, how exactly do you refer to African-Americans in the privacy of your home? 
> 
> Believe it or not, there are African-Americans in this field, and some of us are subscribed to SEELANGS.  Though I don't know how much longer either of those will be the case if these attitudes persist and are supported openly.  
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Jennifer Wilson 
> 
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Stephanie Briggs [sdsures at GMAIL.COM]
> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:47 AM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
> 
> Max makes a good point re countries such as "the United Kingdom", "the Philippines". I'm agreeing with him on those, because in those cases, that is what those countries have chosen to call themselves. 
> 
> (But isn't the Russian Federation correctly a "federated country", a collection of federal objects with different levels of autonomies? Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
> 
> Here's what he said in full, for reference, south of my signature. 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> ​ *****************************
> ~Stephanie D. (Sures) Briggs
> 
> Shorn Lambs: Hand-Knitted Scarves, Afghans, Throws and Baby Blankets 
> http://shornlambs.etsy.com
> 
> My blog: http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk 
> Twitter: @stephbriggsuk
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/stephanie.briggs3
> 
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> 
> "I don't agree with Jules.
> 
> Insisting on the right to use the article "the" before the country topnym of "Ukraine" in English is willful ignorance.
> 
> If you genuinely reflect on the use of topnyms in English and would like to abstract a set of general principles or theory, I offer the following:
> 
> 
> For country names, "the" is used for collective entities or territories reflecting the use of a political system: "The Philippines," "the United Kingdom," "the United States," "the Czech Republic," and "the Russian Federation" (even though it isn’t a federation).
> 
> Use of "the" with a country toponym that doesn’t conform to the preceding rule generally indicates de facto allegiance to some sort of imperial claim or subordination. "the Ukraine" seems to be the most frequent occurrence, but occasionally and to a lesser degree, there are occurrences of "the Argentine" and "the Lebanon." (consider the usage of the last two during periods of elevated international conflict, especially during the 1980s).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 22 June 2014 13:51, Evgeny Steiner <es9 at soas.ac.uk> wrote:
> Venerable  Colleagues,
> 
> These unending debates - V vs. NA - reminded me the previous round of, should I call it, (The) Ukrainian linguistic independency, when some activists demanded that 'Kiev' in all international maps should be changed to 'Kyiv.' Can't resist to self-quote my modest (hope not too acrid) remark. It seems after almost eight years it still has some sense.
> 
> Date: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:39 pm
> Subject: [SEELANGS] Is Kiev/Kyiv the new acid test for Russo-centrism?
> 
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> Does it mean that “grown up” nations can afford hearing their city names
> “distorted” in every way (say, ‘Moscow’, ‘Moskau’, or ‘Mosukuwa’), but
> the world should be overly accommodating to the sentiments of “newly
> liberated” peoples? This interesting application of the Affirmative
> Action might soon provoke certain activists in the academy to demand
> that Jerusalem should be officially named Al-Quds.
> 
> Back to Kiev: if the idea is to eradicate the Russian colonial
> linguistic domination, why not to return ad fontes? The first time this
> city was mentioned in a written source was in the Hebrew Kievan Letter
> (early 10 c.). It’s not our concern here if this “kahal shel Kiyyov”
> (“the community of Kiev”) consisted of Khazarian or Judean Jews. They
> settled there before the Slavs and called their city in their way.
> Omeljan Pritsak who, with Norman Gelb, published this document
> transliterated the Hebrew letters exactly in this way: ‘Kiyyov’. And,
> after all, two Y together should look even more exclusive!
> 
> 
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Josh Wilson <jwilson at sras.org> wrote:
> Dear Seelangers -
> 
> I feel like I'm treading into dangerous waters here - but I'm genuinely
> curious...
> 
> Does anyone know if there have been studies on v/na usage inside Ukraine?
> 
> I've met Ukrainians (on two occasions) that actually use "na." They were
> from Crimea and East Ukraine, and both stated that it was not uncommon in
> their view for Ukrainian citizens to use the construction. Arguments for
> continuing the use of "na" included 1) that's the way it's always been
> (granted, which is a flawed argument) and 2) it recalls Ukraine's "great
> Soviet past."
> 
> Obviously these are not the habits and opinions of all Ukrainians, but
> knowing that Soviet nostalgia is fairly common in many places of the former
> USSR, I would be interested to know just how widespread it is in Ukraine and
> how this might affect language use there (and how much diversity in this
> remains in Ukraine), should anyone know of such a study....
> 
> Miru mir,
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Wilson
> Assistant Director
> The School of Russian and Asian Studies
> Editor in Chief
> Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
> SRAS.org
> jwilson at sras.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:56 PM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
> 
> anne marie devlin wrote:
> 
> > Dear Seelangers
> >
> > Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became
> > known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but
> > would be very grateful for precise information on this as I can't seem
> > to find it anywhere.
> 
> Since there is no "académie anglaise" or equivalent, everyone pretty much
> does as they please; there is no "official" English.
> 
> Of course, you can make up your own definition by setting some organization
> as your standard. E.g., "since xx.xx.xxxx, the U.S. State Department has
> dropped the article." That makes it much easier to do the research.
> 
> This article may be of use in that research:
> <http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/2006/460614.shtml>
> 
> --
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Professor Evgeny Steiner
> Senior Research Associate
> Sainsbury Institute for the Study of Japanese Arts and Cultures
> SOAS, University of London
> Brunei Gallery, B401
> Russell Square
> London WC1H 0XG
> United Kingdom
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------




Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD





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From ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET  Sun Jun 22 17:10:54 2014
From: ameliede at EARTHLINK.NET (Jules Levin)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 10:10:54 -0700
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <5D1A301644CFC94DB8024EFF7017CA9711EADEAC@CSGMBX201W.pu.win.princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.101054.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

On 22.06.2014 8:55, Jennifer L. Wilson wrote:
> "Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to
> African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor is
> rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to my
> own family members in the privacy of my home."
>
> I will be unsubscribing from this list.  I'm very saddened at the 
> number of people who said "I agree with Jules" after a comment like 
> this.  To Jules, how exactly do you refer to African-Americans in the 
> privacy of your home?

Dear Jennifer, do you understand the word "hypothetical"???   What about 
my statement made you think I was refering to a real African-American 
and a real neighbor.  Honestly...!  Take a course in Rhetoric.  Argue 
the validity of the analogy, don't take it literally!
Jules Levin






>
> Believe it or not, there are African-Americans in this field, and some 
> of us are subscribed to SEELANGS.  Though I don't know how much longer 
> either of those will be the case if these attitudes persist and are 
> supported openly.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Jennifer Wilson
>
> *From:* SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures 
> list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Stephanie Briggs 
> [sdsures at GMAIL.COM]
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:47 AM
> *To:* SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>
> Max makes a good point re countries such as "the United Kingdom", "the 
> Philippines". I'm agreeing with him on those, because in those cases, 
> that is what those countries have chosen to call themselves.
>
> (But isn't the Russian Federation correctly a "federated country", a 
> collection of federal objects with different levels of autonomies? 
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
>
> Here's what he said in full, for reference, south of my signature.
>
> Cheers!
>
> ​
> *****************************
> ~Stephanie D. (Sures) Briggs
>
> /Shorn Lambs: Hand-Knitted Scarves, Afghans, Throws and Baby Blankets /
> http://shornlambs.etsy.com <http://shornlambs.etsy.com/>
>
> My blog: http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk <http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk/>
> Twitter: @stephbriggsuk
> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/stephanie.briggs3
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> "I don't agree with Jules.
>
> Insisting on the right to use the article "the" before the country 
> topnym of "Ukraine" in English is willful ignorance.
>
> If you genuinely reflect on the use of topnyms in English and would 
> like to abstract a set of general principles or theory, I offer the 
> following:
>
>
> For country names, "the" is used for collective entities or 
> territories reflecting the use of a political system: "The 
> Philippines," "the United Kingdom," "the United States," "the Czech 
> Republic," and "the Russian Federation" (even though it isn’t a 
> federation).
>
> Use of "the" with a country toponym that doesn’t conform to the 
> preceding rule generally indicates de facto allegiance to some sort of 
> imperial claim or subordination. "the Ukraine" seems to be the most 
> frequent occurrence, but occasionally and to a lesser degree, there 
> are occurrences of "the Argentine" and "the Lebanon." (consider the 
> usage of the last two during periods of elevated international 
> conflict, especially during the 1980s).
>
>
>
>
> On 22 June 2014 13:51, Evgeny Steiner <es9 at soas.ac.uk 
> <mailto:es9 at soas.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
>     Venerable  Colleagues,
>
>     These unending debates - V vs. NA - reminded me the previous round
>     of, should I call it, (The) Ukrainian linguistic independency,
>     when some activists demanded that 'Kiev' in all international maps
>     should be changed to 'Kyiv.' Can't resist to self-quote my modest
>     (hope not too acrid) remark. It seems after almost eight years it
>     still has some sense.
>
>     Date: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:39 pm
>     Subject: [SEELANGS] Is Kiev/Kyiv the new acid test for Russo-centrism?
>
>
>     Dear all,
>
>     Does it mean that “grown up” nations can afford hearing their city
>     names
>     “distorted” in every way (say, ‘Moscow’, ‘Moskau’, or ‘Mosukuwa’), but
>     the world should be overly accommodating to the sentiments of “newly
>     liberated” peoples? This interesting application of the Affirmative
>     Action might soon provoke certain activists in the academy to demand
>     that Jerusalem should be officially named Al-Quds.
>
>     Back to Kiev: if the idea is to eradicate the Russian colonial
>     linguistic domination, why not to return ad fontes? The first time
>     this
>     city was mentioned in a written source was in the Hebrew Kievan Letter
>     (early 10 c.). It’s not our concern here if this “kahal shel Kiyyov”
>     (“the community of Kiev”) consisted of Khazarian or Judean Jews. They
>     settled there before the Slavs and called their city in their way.
>     Omeljan Pritsak who, with Norman Gelb, published this document
>     transliterated the Hebrew letters exactly in this way: ‘Kiyyov’. And,
>     after all, two Y together should look even more exclusive!
>
>
>     On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Josh Wilson <jwilson at sras.org
>     <mailto:jwilson at sras.org>> wrote:
>
>         Dear Seelangers -
>
>         I feel like I'm treading into dangerous waters here - but I'm
>         genuinely
>         curious...
>
>         Does anyone know if there have been studies on v/na usage
>         inside Ukraine?
>
>         I've met Ukrainians (on two occasions) that actually use "na."
>         They were
>         from Crimea and East Ukraine, and both stated that it was not
>         uncommon in
>         their view for Ukrainian citizens to use the construction.
>         Arguments for
>         continuing the use of "na" included 1) that's the way it's
>         always been
>         (granted, which is a flawed argument) and 2) it recalls
>         Ukraine's "great
>         Soviet past."
>
>         Obviously these are not the habits and opinions of all
>         Ukrainians, but
>         knowing that Soviet nostalgia is fairly common in many places
>         of the former
>         USSR, I would be interested to know just how widespread it is
>         in Ukraine and
>         how this might affect language use there (and how much
>         diversity in this
>         remains in Ukraine), should anyone know of such a study....
>
>         Miru mir,
>
>
>
>         Josh Wilson
>         Assistant Director
>         The School of Russian and Asian Studies
>         Editor in Chief
>         Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
>         SRAS.org
>         jwilson at sras.org <mailto:jwilson at sras.org>
>
>
>
>
>
>         -----Original Message-----
>         From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and
>         Literatures list
>         [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>         <mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU>] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher
>         Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:56 PM
>         To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU <mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
>         Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>
>         anne marie devlin wrote:
>
>         > Dear Seelangers
>         >
>         > Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine'
>         officially became
>         > known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after
>         1993, but
>         > would be very grateful for precise information on this as I
>         can't seem
>         > to find it anywhere.
>
>         Since there is no "académie anglaise" or equivalent, everyone
>         pretty much
>         does as they please; there is no "official" English.
>
>         Of course, you can make up your own definition by setting some
>         organization
>         as your standard. E.g., "since xx.xx.xxxx, the U.S. State
>         Department has
>         dropped the article." That makes it much easier to do the
>         research.
>
>         This article may be of use in that research:
>         <http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/2006/460614.shtml>
>
>         --
>         War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
>         --
>         Paul B. Gallagher
>         pbg translations, inc.
>         "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
>         http://pbg-translations.com
>
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>           Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>         subscription
>           options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web
>         Interface at:
>         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>           Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>         subscription
>           options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web
>         Interface at:
>         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>         -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Professor Evgeny Steiner
>     Senior Research Associate
>     Sainsbury Institute for the Study of Japanese Arts and Cultures
>     SOAS, University of London
>     Brunei Gallery, B401
>     Russell Square
>     London WC1H 0XG
>     United Kingdom
>     -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
>     subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS
>     Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>     -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription 
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: 
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription 
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: 
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 


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From cstroop at GMAIL.COM  Sun Jun 22 17:33:08 2014
From: cstroop at GMAIL.COM (Chris Stroop)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 21:33:08 +0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A70E1E.9030404@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.213308.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Wow, what an incredibly spiteful, belittling, and conveniently dismissive
response! Whether she was taking the situation literally or hypothetically
is immaterial (the original phrasing was also ambiguous). Her response
still stands. Asking what you would theoretically call your hypothetical
African-American neighbor behind his back is perfectly valid here, the
implied question obviously being whether you find it acceptable to refer to
other people in demeaning ways, at least if they're not around. Apparently
you're willing to do so quite openly, since you insist on referring to
"the" Ukraine, Ukrainians' sentiments (and the demonstrable imperial
meaning of the definite article in such cases in English) be damned.

I'm not one to step into these controversies, generally, nor am I very
active on this list, but I'm not going to simply stand by when I see
someone being treated so poorly by a senior colleague. Your response is
tone deaf at the very least.



Christopher Stroop
PhD, History and Humanities, Stanford University
Senior Lecturer, RANEPA, Moscow
Editor, *State, Religion and Church*
https://rane.academia.edu/ChristopherStroop
<http://www.SacraMentalities.org>


On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Jules Levin <ameliede at earthlink.net> wrote:

>  On 22.06.2014 8:55, Jennifer L. Wilson wrote:
>
> "Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to
> African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor is
> rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to my
> own family members in the privacy of my home."
>
>  I will be unsubscribing from this list.  I'm very saddened at the number
> of people who said "I agree with Jules" after a comment like this.  To
> Jules, how exactly do you refer to African-Americans in the privacy of your
> home?
>
>
> Dear Jennifer, do you understand the word "hypothetical"???   What about
> my statement made you think I was refering to a real African-American and a
> real neighbor.  Honestly...!  Take a course in Rhetoric.  Argue the
> validity of the analogy, don't take it literally!
> Jules Levin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Believe it or not, there are African-Americans in this field, and some
> of us are subscribed to SEELANGS.  Though I don't know how much longer
> either of those will be the case if these attitudes persist and are
> supported openly.
>
>  Sincerely,
>
>  Jennifer Wilson
>
>   *From:* SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Stephanie Briggs [
> sdsures at GMAIL.COM]
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:47 AM
> *To:* SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>
>   Max makes a good point re countries such as "the United Kingdom", "the
> Philippines". I'm agreeing with him on those, because in those cases, that
> is what those countries have chosen to call themselves.
>
> (But isn't the Russian Federation correctly a "federated country", a
> collection of federal objects with different levels of autonomies? Please
> correct me if I'm wrong.)
>
> Here's what he said in full, for reference, south of my signature.
>
> Cheers!
>
>  ​
> *****************************
> ~Stephanie D. (Sures) Briggs
>
> *Shorn Lambs: Hand-Knitted Scarves, Afghans, Throws and Baby Blankets *
>  http://shornlambs.etsy.com
>
>  My blog: http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk  <http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk/>
> Twitter: @stephbriggsuk
>  Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/stephanie.briggs3
>
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> "I don't agree with Jules.
>
> Insisting on the right to use the article "the" before the country topnym
> of "Ukraine" in English is willful ignorance.
>
> If you genuinely reflect on the use of topnyms in English and would like
> to abstract a set of general principles or theory, I offer the following:
>
>
> For country names, "the" is used for collective entities or territories
> reflecting the use of a political system: "The Philippines," "the United
> Kingdom," "the United States," "the Czech Republic," and "the Russian
> Federation" (even though it isn’t a federation).
>
> Use of "the" with a country toponym that doesn’t conform to the preceding
> rule generally indicates de facto allegiance to some sort of imperial claim
> or subordination. "the Ukraine" seems to be the most frequent occurrence,
> but occasionally and to a lesser degree, there are occurrences of "the
> Argentine" and "the Lebanon." (consider the usage of the last two during
> periods of elevated international conflict, especially during the 1980s).
>
>
>
>
> On 22 June 2014 13:51, Evgeny Steiner <es9 at soas.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>  Venerable  Colleagues,
>
>  These unending debates - V vs. NA - reminded me the previous round of,
> should I call it, (The) Ukrainian linguistic independency, when some
> activists demanded that 'Kiev' in all international maps should be changed
> to 'Kyiv.' Can't resist to self-quote my modest (hope not too acrid)
> remark. It seems after almost eight years it still has some sense.
>
>  Date: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:39 pm
> Subject: [SEELANGS] Is Kiev/Kyiv the new acid test for Russo-centrism?
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> Does it mean that “grown up” nations can afford hearing their city names
> “distorted” in every way (say, ‘Moscow’, ‘Moskau’, or ‘Mosukuwa’), but
> the world should be overly accommodating to the sentiments of “newly
> liberated” peoples? This interesting application of the Affirmative
> Action might soon provoke certain activists in the academy to demand
> that Jerusalem should be officially named Al-Quds.
>
> Back to Kiev: if the idea is to eradicate the Russian colonial
> linguistic domination, why not to return ad fontes? The first time this
> city was mentioned in a written source was in the Hebrew Kievan Letter
> (early 10 c.). It’s not our concern here if this “kahal shel Kiyyov”
> (“the community of Kiev”) consisted of Khazarian or Judean Jews. They
> settled there before the Slavs and called their city in their way.
> Omeljan Pritsak who, with Norman Gelb, published this document
> transliterated the Hebrew letters exactly in this way: ‘Kiyyov’. And,
> after all, two Y together should look even more exclusive!
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Josh Wilson <jwilson at sras.org> wrote:
>
> Dear Seelangers -
>
> I feel like I'm treading into dangerous waters here - but I'm genuinely
> curious...
>
> Does anyone know if there have been studies on v/na usage inside Ukraine?
>
> I've met Ukrainians (on two occasions) that actually use "na." They were
> from Crimea and East Ukraine, and both stated that it was not uncommon in
> their view for Ukrainian citizens to use the construction. Arguments for
> continuing the use of "na" included 1) that's the way it's always been
> (granted, which is a flawed argument) and 2) it recalls Ukraine's "great
> Soviet past."
>
> Obviously these are not the habits and opinions of all Ukrainians, but
> knowing that Soviet nostalgia is fairly common in many places of the former
> USSR, I would be interested to know just how widespread it is in Ukraine
> and
> how this might affect language use there (and how much diversity in this
> remains in Ukraine), should anyone know of such a study....
>
> Miru mir,
>
>
>
> Josh Wilson
> Assistant Director
> The School of Russian and Asian Studies
> Editor in Chief
> Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
> SRAS.org
> jwilson at sras.org
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:56 PM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>
> anne marie devlin wrote:
>
> > Dear Seelangers
> >
> > Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became
> > known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but
> > would be very grateful for precise information on this as I can't seem
> > to find it anywhere.
>
> Since there is no "académie anglaise" or equivalent, everyone pretty much
> does as they please; there is no "official" English.
>
> Of course, you can make up your own definition by setting some organization
> as your standard. E.g., "since xx.xx.xxxx, the U.S. State Department has
> dropped the article." That makes it much easier to do the research.
>
> This article may be of use in that research:
> <http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/2006/460614.shtml>
>
> --
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>   --
> Professor Evgeny Steiner
> Senior Research Associate
> Sainsbury Institute for the Study of Japanese Arts and Cultures
> SOAS, University of London
> Brunei Gallery, B401
> Russell Square
> London WC1H 0XG
> United Kingdom
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                        http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From naiman at BERKELEY.EDU  Sun Jun 22 17:39:20 2014
From: naiman at BERKELEY.EDU (Eric NAIMAN)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 19:39:20 +0200
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <53A70E1E.9030404@earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.193920.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

It is perfectly clear that Jennifer Wilson understands her rhetoric --
that's why she was entirely justified in picking up on the implications of
Jules Levin's post.  Nobody who has taken a course in rhetoric or, indeed
in just about any version of critical theory, since, say, 1970, could
accuse her of getting her figures wrong.  Use of the conditional,
implicitly or explicitly, doesn't give the speaker a right to avoid
responsibility for his language.  Nor do jovial references to one's age, or
hostile references to the youth of others.


On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 7:10 PM, Jules Levin <ameliede at earthlink.net> wrote:

>  On 22.06.2014 8:55, Jennifer L. Wilson wrote:
>
> "Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to
> African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor is
> rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to my
> own family members in the privacy of my home."
>
>  I will be unsubscribing from this list.  I'm very saddened at the number
> of people who said "I agree with Jules" after a comment like this.  To
> Jules, how exactly do you refer to African-Americans in the privacy of your
> home?
>
>
> Dear Jennifer, do you understand the word "hypothetical"???   What about
> my statement made you think I was refering to a real African-American and a
> real neighbor.  Honestly...!  Take a course in Rhetoric.  Argue the
> validity of the analogy, don't take it literally!
> Jules Levin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  Believe it or not, there are African-Americans in this field, and some
> of us are subscribed to SEELANGS.  Though I don't know how much longer
> either of those will be the case if these attitudes persist and are
> supported openly.
>
>  Sincerely,
>
>  Jennifer Wilson
>
>   *From:* SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Stephanie Briggs [
> sdsures at GMAIL.COM]
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:47 AM
> *To:* SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> *Subject:* Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>
>   Max makes a good point re countries such as "the United Kingdom", "the
> Philippines". I'm agreeing with him on those, because in those cases, that
> is what those countries have chosen to call themselves.
>
> (But isn't the Russian Federation correctly a "federated country", a
> collection of federal objects with different levels of autonomies? Please
> correct me if I'm wrong.)
>
> Here's what he said in full, for reference, south of my signature.
>
> Cheers!
>
>  ​
> *****************************
> ~Stephanie D. (Sures) Briggs
>
> *Shorn Lambs: Hand-Knitted Scarves, Afghans, Throws and Baby Blankets *
>  http://shornlambs.etsy.com
>
>  My blog: http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk  <http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk/>
> Twitter: @stephbriggsuk
>  Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/stephanie.briggs3
>
>  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
> "I don't agree with Jules.
>
> Insisting on the right to use the article "the" before the country topnym
> of "Ukraine" in English is willful ignorance.
>
> If you genuinely reflect on the use of topnyms in English and would like
> to abstract a set of general principles or theory, I offer the following:
>
>
> For country names, "the" is used for collective entities or territories
> reflecting the use of a political system: "The Philippines," "the United
> Kingdom," "the United States," "the Czech Republic," and "the Russian
> Federation" (even though it isn’t a federation).
>
> Use of "the" with a country toponym that doesn’t conform to the preceding
> rule generally indicates de facto allegiance to some sort of imperial claim
> or subordination. "the Ukraine" seems to be the most frequent occurrence,
> but occasionally and to a lesser degree, there are occurrences of "the
> Argentine" and "the Lebanon." (consider the usage of the last two during
> periods of elevated international conflict, especially during the 1980s).
>
>
>
>
> On 22 June 2014 13:51, Evgeny Steiner <es9 at soas.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>  Venerable  Colleagues,
>
>  These unending debates - V vs. NA - reminded me the previous round of,
> should I call it, (The) Ukrainian linguistic independency, when some
> activists demanded that 'Kiev' in all international maps should be changed
> to 'Kyiv.' Can't resist to self-quote my modest (hope not too acrid)
> remark. It seems after almost eight years it still has some sense.
>
>  Date: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:39 pm
> Subject: [SEELANGS] Is Kiev/Kyiv the new acid test for Russo-centrism?
>
>
> Dear all,
>
> Does it mean that “grown up” nations can afford hearing their city names
> “distorted” in every way (say, ‘Moscow’, ‘Moskau’, or ‘Mosukuwa’), but
> the world should be overly accommodating to the sentiments of “newly
> liberated” peoples? This interesting application of the Affirmative
> Action might soon provoke certain activists in the academy to demand
> that Jerusalem should be officially named Al-Quds.
>
> Back to Kiev: if the idea is to eradicate the Russian colonial
> linguistic domination, why not to return ad fontes? The first time this
> city was mentioned in a written source was in the Hebrew Kievan Letter
> (early 10 c.). It’s not our concern here if this “kahal shel Kiyyov”
> (“the community of Kiev”) consisted of Khazarian or Judean Jews. They
> settled there before the Slavs and called their city in their way.
> Omeljan Pritsak who, with Norman Gelb, published this document
> transliterated the Hebrew letters exactly in this way: ‘Kiyyov’. And,
> after all, two Y together should look even more exclusive!
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Josh Wilson <jwilson at sras.org> wrote:
>
> Dear Seelangers -
>
> I feel like I'm treading into dangerous waters here - but I'm genuinely
> curious...
>
> Does anyone know if there have been studies on v/na usage inside Ukraine?
>
> I've met Ukrainians (on two occasions) that actually use "na." They were
> from Crimea and East Ukraine, and both stated that it was not uncommon in
> their view for Ukrainian citizens to use the construction. Arguments for
> continuing the use of "na" included 1) that's the way it's always been
> (granted, which is a flawed argument) and 2) it recalls Ukraine's "great
> Soviet past."
>
> Obviously these are not the habits and opinions of all Ukrainians, but
> knowing that Soviet nostalgia is fairly common in many places of the former
> USSR, I would be interested to know just how widespread it is in Ukraine
> and
> how this might affect language use there (and how much diversity in this
> remains in Ukraine), should anyone know of such a study....
>
> Miru mir,
>
>
>
> Josh Wilson
> Assistant Director
> The School of Russian and Asian Studies
> Editor in Chief
> Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
> SRAS.org
> jwilson at sras.org
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
> [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher
> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:56 PM
> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>
> anne marie devlin wrote:
>
> > Dear Seelangers
> >
> > Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became
> > known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but
> > would be very grateful for precise information on this as I can't seem
> > to find it anywhere.
>
> Since there is no "académie anglaise" or equivalent, everyone pretty much
> does as they please; there is no "official" English.
>
> Of course, you can make up your own definition by setting some organization
> as your standard. E.g., "since xx.xx.xxxx, the U.S. State Department has
> dropped the article." That makes it much easier to do the research.
>
> This article may be of use in that research:
> <http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/2006/460614.shtml>
>
> --
> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
> --
> Paul B. Gallagher
> pbg translations, inc.
> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
> http://pbg-translations.com
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>   --
> Professor Evgeny Steiner
> Senior Research Associate
> Sainsbury Institute for the Study of Japanese Arts and Cultures
> SOAS, University of London
> Brunei Gallery, B401
> Russell Square
> London WC1H 0XG
> United Kingdom
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
                        http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU  Sun Jun 22 17:56:18 2014
From: anne.lounsbery at NYU.EDU (Anne L Lounsbery)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 13:56:18 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <CALNU6Z0MKaFKXts3c3g7_nbv9haozHxxJY5tLovabUaNFv36Cw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.135618.0400.>

Although I too am reluctant to enter into this conversation, which has
grown increasingly uncivil on one side, I must express my support for the
statements made by Eric Naiman and Chris Stroop, as well as those made
earlier by Edyta Bojanowska and Eliot Borenstein. And of course, publicly
insulting a junior colleague who asks a reasonable (pointed) question about
a genuinely sensitive topic is inexcusable.



AL





Anne Lounsbery

Associate Professor and Chair

Department of Russian & Slavic Studies

New York University

19 University Place, 2nd floor

New York, NY 10003

(212) 998-8674











*From:* SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] *On Behalf Of *Eric NAIMAN
*Sent:* Sunday, June 22, 2014 1:39 PM
*To:* SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine



It is perfectly clear that Jennifer Wilson understands her rhetoric --
that's why she was entirely justified in picking up on the implications of
Jules Levin's post.  Nobody who has taken a course in rhetoric or, indeed
in just about any version of critical theory, since, say, 1970, could
accuse her of getting her figures wrong.  Use of the conditional,
implicitly or explicitly, doesn't give the speaker a right to avoid
responsibility for his language.  Nor do jovial references to one's age, or
hostile references to the youth of others.



On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 7:10 PM, Jules Levin <ameliede at earthlink.net> wrote:

On 22.06.2014 8:55, Jennifer L. Wilson wrote:

"Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to
African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor is
rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to my
own family members in the privacy of my home."



I will be unsubscribing from this list.  I'm very saddened at the number of
people who said "I agree with Jules" after a comment like this.  To Jules,
how exactly do you refer to African-Americans in the privacy of your home?


Dear Jennifer, do you understand the word "hypothetical"???   What about my
statement made you think I was refering to a real African-American and a
real neighbor.  Honestly...!  Take a course in Rhetoric.  Argue the
validity of the analogy, don't take it literally!
Jules Levin









Believe it or not, there are African-Americans in this field, and some of
us are subscribed to SEELANGS.  Though I don't know how much longer either
of those will be the case if these attitudes persist and are supported
openly.



Sincerely,



Jennifer Wilson



*From:* SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [
SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Stephanie Briggs [sdsures at GMAIL.COM]
*Sent:* Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:47 AM
*To:* SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

Max makes a good point re countries such as "the United Kingdom", "the
Philippines". I'm agreeing with him on those, because in those cases, that
is what those countries have chosen to call themselves.

(But isn't the Russian Federation correctly a "federated country", a
collection of federal objects with different levels of autonomies? Please
correct me if I'm wrong.)

Here's what he said in full, for reference, south of my signature.

Cheers!



​

*****************************
~Stephanie D. (Sures) Briggs

*Shorn Lambs: Hand-Knitted Scarves, Afghans, Throws and Baby Blankets *

http://shornlambs.etsy.com



My blog: http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk  <http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk/>

Twitter: @stephbriggsuk

Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/stephanie.briggs3



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I don't agree with Jules.


Insisting on the right to use the article "the" before the country topnym
of "Ukraine" in English is willful ignorance.

If you genuinely reflect on the use of topnyms in English and would like to
abstract a set of general principles or theory, I offer the following:


For country names, "the" is used for collective entities or territories
reflecting the use of a political system: "The Philippines," "the United
Kingdom," "the United States," "the Czech Republic," and "the Russian
Federation" (even though it isn’t a federation).

Use of "the" with a country toponym that doesn’t conform to the preceding
rule generally indicates de facto allegiance to some sort of imperial claim
or subordination. "the Ukraine" seems to be the most frequent occurrence,
but occasionally and to a lesser degree, there are occurrences of "the
Argentine" and "the Lebanon." (consider the usage of the last two during
periods of elevated international conflict, especially during the 1980s).







On 22 June 2014 13:51, Evgeny Steiner <es9 at soas.ac.uk> wrote:

Venerable  Colleagues,



These unending debates - V vs. NA - reminded me the previous round of,
should I call it, (The) Ukrainian linguistic independency, when some
activists demanded that 'Kiev' in all international maps should be changed
to 'Kyiv.' Can't resist to self-quote my modest (hope not too acrid)
remark. It seems after almost eight years it still has some sense.



Date: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:39 pm
Subject: [SEELANGS] Is Kiev/Kyiv the new acid test for Russo-centrism?


Dear all,

Does it mean that “grown up” nations can afford hearing their city names
“distorted” in every way (say, ‘Moscow’, ‘Moskau’, or ‘Mosukuwa’), but
the world should be overly accommodating to the sentiments of “newly
liberated” peoples? This interesting application of the Affirmative
Action might soon provoke certain activists in the academy to demand
that Jerusalem should be officially named Al-Quds.

Back to Kiev: if the idea is to eradicate the Russian colonial
linguistic domination, why not to return ad fontes? The first time this
city was mentioned in a written source was in the Hebrew Kievan Letter
(early 10 c.). It’s not our concern here if this “kahal shel Kiyyov”
(“the community of Kiev”) consisted of Khazarian or Judean Jews. They
settled there before the Slavs and called their city in their way.
Omeljan Pritsak who, with Norman Gelb, published this document
transliterated the Hebrew letters exactly in this way: ‘Kiyyov’. And,
after all, two Y together should look even more exclusive!



On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Josh Wilson <jwilson at sras.org> wrote:

Dear Seelangers -

I feel like I'm treading into dangerous waters here - but I'm genuinely
curious...

Does anyone know if there have been studies on v/na usage inside Ukraine?

I've met Ukrainians (on two occasions) that actually use "na." They were
from Crimea and East Ukraine, and both stated that it was not uncommon in
their view for Ukrainian citizens to use the construction. Arguments for
continuing the use of "na" included 1) that's the way it's always been
(granted, which is a flawed argument) and 2) it recalls Ukraine's "great
Soviet past."

Obviously these are not the habits and opinions of all Ukrainians, but
knowing that Soviet nostalgia is fairly common in many places of the former
USSR, I would be interested to know just how widespread it is in Ukraine and
how this might affect language use there (and how much diversity in this
remains in Ukraine), should anyone know of such a study....

Miru mir,



Josh Wilson
Assistant Director
The School of Russian and Asian Studies
Editor in Chief
Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
SRAS.org
jwilson at sras.org





-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher
Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:56 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

anne marie devlin wrote:

> Dear Seelangers
>
> Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially became
> known as 'Ukraine' in English?  I presume sometime after 1993, but
> would be very grateful for precise information on this as I can't seem
> to find it anywhere.

Since there is no "académie anglaise" or equivalent, everyone pretty much
does as they please; there is no "official" English.

Of course, you can make up your own definition by setting some organization
as your standard. E.g., "since xx.xx.xxxx, the U.S. State Department has
dropped the article." That makes it much easier to do the research.

This article may be of use in that research:
<http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/2006/460614.shtml>

--
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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-- 
Professor Evgeny Steiner
Senior Research Associate
Sainsbury Institute for the Study of Japanese Arts and Cultures
SOAS, University of London
Brunei Gallery, B401
Russell Square
London WC1H 0XG
United Kingdom

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From extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU  Sun Jun 22 17:46:40 2014
From: extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU (Stanislav Chernyshov)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 21:46:40 +0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <90A9BF1C-DD41-44FF-AEC8-9B59A10B08C9@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.214640.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Robert,

Being Russian I was slightly surprised Russians haven't suffered 
oppression. Reading some Solzhenitsyn (available in English) could 
really change your view.
And precisely because we've suffered oppression, including censorship 
and persecution for "thought crimes", I think many Russians can 
understand Jules's just defending free speech and privacy ("home") 
against political control of language usage.

Jennifer, please, for sure nobody on this list supports slavery or any 
sort of discrimination.

And, "miru mir!"

Stanislav

Robert Chandler писал 2014-06-22 21:15:
> Dear Jennifer,
>
> I very much regret that you are unsubscribing. Please don't!
>
> As you can see, those of us - Russians or English or White Americans
> - who have not suffered discrimination or oppression do truly, even
> with the best will in the world, often find it difficult to 
> understand
> the intensity of feeling of those - Ukrainians or Irish Catholics or
> Black Americans - who _HAVE_ suffered discrimination and/or
> oppression.
>
> Discussions like these, though sometimes frustrating and painful, can
> help us to understand our failings.
>
> Please stay with us.
>
> As a Russian friend has just written to me, "Mir miru!"
>
> Robert
>
> On 22 Jun 2014, at 16:55, "Jennifer L. Wilson" <jlwtwo at PRINCETON.EDU> 
> wrote:
>
>> "Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to
>> African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor 
>> is
>> rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to 
>> my
>> own family members in the privacy of my home."
>>
>> I will be unsubscribing from this list. I'm very saddened at the 
>> number of people who said "I agree with Jules" after a comment like 
>> this. To Jules, how exactly do you refer to African-Americans in the 
>> privacy of your home?
>>
>> Believe it or not, there are African-Americans in this field, and 
>> some of us are subscribed to SEELANGS. Though I don't know how much 
>> longer either of those will be the case if these attitudes persist and 
>> are supported openly.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> Jennifer Wilson
>>
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures 
>> list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Stephanie Briggs 
>> [sdsures at GMAIL.COM]
>> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 10:47 AM
>> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>>
>> Max makes a good point re countries such as "the United Kingdom", 
>> "the Philippines". I'm agreeing with him on those, because in those 
>> cases, that is what those countries have chosen to call themselves.
>>
>> (But isn't the Russian Federation correctly a "federated country", a 
>> collection of federal objects with different levels of autonomies? 
>> Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
>>
>> Here's what he said in full, for reference, south of my signature.
>>
>> Cheers!
>>
>> ​ *****************************
>> ~Stephanie D. (Sures) Briggs
>>
>> Shorn Lambs: Hand-Knitted Scarves, Afghans, Throws and Baby Blankets
>> http://shornlambs.etsy.com
>>
>> My blog: http://stephaniebriggs.co.uk
>> Twitter: @stephbriggsuk
>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/stephanie.briggs3
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>> "I don't agree with Jules.
>>
>> Insisting on the right to use the article "the" before the country 
>> topnym of "Ukraine" in English is willful ignorance.
>>
>> If you genuinely reflect on the use of topnyms in English and would 
>> like to abstract a set of general principles or theory, I offer the 
>> following:
>>
>> For country names, "the" is used for collective entities or 
>> territories reflecting the use of a political system: "The 
>> Philippines," "the United Kingdom," "the United States," "the Czech 
>> Republic," and "the Russian Federation" (even though it isn’t a 
>> federation).
>>
>> Use of "the" with a country toponym that doesn’t conform to the 
>> preceding rule generally indicates de facto allegiance to some sort of 
>> imperial claim or subordination. "the Ukraine" seems to be the most 
>> frequent occurrence, but occasionally and to a lesser degree, there 
>> are occurrences of "the Argentine" and "the Lebanon." (consider the 
>> usage of the last two during periods of elevated international 
>> conflict, especially during the 1980s).
>>
>> On 22 June 2014 13:51, Evgeny Steiner <es9 at soas.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Venerable Colleagues,
>>
>> These unending debates - V vs. NA - reminded me the previous round 
>> of, should I call it, (The) Ukrainian linguistic independency, when 
>> some activists demanded that 'Kiev' in all international maps should 
>> be changed to 'Kyiv.' Can't resist to self-quote my modest (hope not 
>> too acrid) remark. It seems after almost eight years it still has some 
>> sense.
>>
>> Date: Sunday, October 22, 2006 11:39 pm
>> Subject: [SEELANGS] Is Kiev/Kyiv the new acid test for 
>> Russo-centrism?
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Does it mean that “grown up” nations can afford hearing their city 
>> names
>> “distorted” in every way (say, ‘Moscow’, ‘Moskau’, or ‘Mosukuwa’), 
>> but
>> the world should be overly accommodating to the sentiments of “newly
>> liberated” peoples? This interesting application of the Affirmative
>> Action might soon provoke certain activists in the academy to demand
>> that Jerusalem should be officially named Al-Quds.
>>
>> Back to Kiev: if the idea is to eradicate the Russian colonial
>> linguistic domination, why not to return ad fontes? The first time 
>> this
>> city was mentioned in a written source was in the Hebrew Kievan 
>> Letter
>> (early 10 c.). It’s not our concern here if this “kahal shel Kiyyov”
>> (“the community of Kiev”) consisted of Khazarian or Judean Jews. 
>> They
>> settled there before the Slavs and called their city in their way.
>> Omeljan Pritsak who, with Norman Gelb, published this document
>> transliterated the Hebrew letters exactly in this way: ‘Kiyyov’. 
>> And,
>> after all, two Y together should look even more exclusive!
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 4:18 PM, Josh Wilson <jwilson at sras.org> 
>> wrote:
>> Dear Seelangers -
>>
>> I feel like I'm treading into dangerous waters here - but I'm 
>> genuinely
>> curious...
>>
>> Does anyone know if there have been studies on v/na usage inside 
>> Ukraine?
>>
>> I've met Ukrainians (on two occasions) that actually use "na." They 
>> were
>> from Crimea and East Ukraine, and both stated that it was not 
>> uncommon in
>> their view for Ukrainian citizens to use the construction. Arguments 
>> for
>> continuing the use of "na" included 1) that's the way it's always 
>> been
>> (granted, which is a flawed argument) and 2) it recalls Ukraine's 
>> "great
>> Soviet past."
>>
>> Obviously these are not the habits and opinions of all Ukrainians, 
>> but
>> knowing that Soviet nostalgia is fairly common in many places of the 
>> former
>> USSR, I would be interested to know just how widespread it is in 
>> Ukraine and
>> how this might affect language use there (and how much diversity in 
>> this
>> remains in Ukraine), should anyone know of such a study....
>>
>> Miru mir,
>>
>> Josh Wilson
>> Assistant Director
>> The School of Russian and Asian Studies
>> Editor in Chief
>> Vestnik, The Journal of Russian and Asian Studies
>> SRAS.org
>> jwilson at sras.org
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures 
>> list
>> [mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul B. Gallagher
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:56 PM
>> To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
>>
>> anne marie devlin wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Seelangers
>>>
>>> Would any of you happen to know when 'The Ukraine' officially 
>>> became
>>> known as 'Ukraine' in English? I presume sometime after 1993, but
>>> would be very grateful for precise information on this as I can't 
>>> seem
>>> to find it anywhere.
>>
>> Since there is no "académie anglaise" or equivalent, everyone pretty 
>> much
>> does as they please; there is no "official" English.
>>
>> Of course, you can make up your own definition by setting some 
>> organization
>> as your standard. E.g., "since xx.xx.xxxx, the U.S. State Department 
>> has
>> dropped the article." That makes it much easier to do the research.
>>
>> This article may be of use in that research:
>> <http://www.ukrweekly.com/old/archive/2006/460614.shtml>
>>
>> --
>> War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
>> --
>> Paul B. Gallagher
>> pbg translations, inc.
>> "Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
>> http://pbg-translations.com
>>
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
>> subscription
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
>> subscription
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> --
>> Professor Evgeny Steiner
>> Senior Research Associate
>> Sainsbury Institute for the Study of Japanese Arts and Cultures
>> SOAS, University of London
>> Brunei Gallery, B401
>> Russell Square
>> London WC1H 0XG
>> United Kingdom
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
>> subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web 
>> Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
>> subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web 
>> Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
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>> subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web 
>> Interface at:http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD
>
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web
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> ------
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From eb7 at NYU.EDU  Sun Jun 22 18:15:20 2014
From: eb7 at NYU.EDU (Eliot Borenstein)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 14:15:20 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <2360bab81f3658cc3affaf6f0e9e945e@learnrussian.ru>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.141520.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

1) Of course Russians suffered unspeakably under Stalin, but (unless one subscribes to one of a whole host of conspiracy theories that I’m leaving unnamed) they were not targeted as Russians (that is, as a group that is somehow different and lower than the majority).

2) The Soviet experience with censorship understandably makes many people from the post-Soviet space averse to anything that even vaguely resembles it.  This makes perfect sense (see—empathy! Imagining a subject position not one’s own! It can work sometimes!).  But just as much of our discussion is about the relative appropriateness of various analogies, I submit that the “thoughtcrime” analogy often trotted out by the American Right is a blunt instrument used against a set of much subtler discursive phenomena.

3) One more thing that looks like censorship, but doesn’t have to be:  the Internet is notorious for helping people put their worst foot forward.  I have never seen a list more in need of a moderator than SEELANGS.


Eliot Borenstein
Collegiate Professor
Professor, Russian & Slavic Studies
Director of Graduate Study for R&SS
Provostial Fellow
New York University           
19 University Place, Room 210
New York, NY 10003
(212) 998-8676 (office)
212-995-4163 (fax)
 
Editor, All the Russias
The Jordan Center for the Advanced Study of Russia
jordanrussiacenter.org
 
Blog:
jordanrussiacenter.org/all-the-russias/


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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Sun Jun 22 18:15:17 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 14:15:17 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <2360bab81f3658cc3affaf6f0e9e945e@learnrussian.ru>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.141517.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

One has to differentiate between oppression from a totalitarian government and the one from being a minority group which includes social day-to-day discrimination and state discrimination. Or do you think Russians suffered as much as Crimean Tartars in the Soviet Union?

Alina

On Jun 22, 2014, at 1:46 PM, Stanislav Chernyshov <extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU> wrote:

> Dear Robert,
> 
> Being Russian I was slightly surprised Russians haven't suffered oppression. Reading some Solzhenitsyn (available in English) could really change your view.
> And precisely because we've suffered oppression, including censorship and persecution for "thought crimes", I think many Russians can understand Jules's just defending free speech and privacy ("home") against political control of language usage.
> 
> Jennifer, please, for sure nobody on this list supports slavery or any sort of discrimination.
> 
> And, "miru mir!"
> 
> Stanislav
> 

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From colkitto at ROGERS.COM  Sun Jun 22 17:18:33 2014
From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (Robert Orr)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 13:18:33 -0400
Subject: Fwd: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.131833.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>


> 
> My own feeling (has anyone done any research on this?) is that the pressure to change originated in Canada -as far back as the '80's some people were insisting on "Ukraine", long before it became an issue elsewhere.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
>> 

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From extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU  Sun Jun 22 18:46:58 2014
From: extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU (Stanislav Chernyshov)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 22:46:58 +0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <A064D11A-8D57-473D-9197-93FC13E7573B@american.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.224658.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

You are right about the difference, Alina, that was exactly why I 
referred to "oppression" and not "discrimination".

"Or do you think Russians suffered as much as Crimean Tartars in the 
Soviet Union?" - I think that many Russians did, including my family. 
Not because of their ethnicity, like Crimean Tartars, just because they 
were wealthy peasants.

Didn't think talking about Russians being oppressed by the Soviet 
regime would be any news in an American Slavists' discussion.

Stanislav

Alina Israeli писал 2014-06-22 22:15:
> One has to differentiate between oppression from a totalitarian
> government and the one from being a minority group which includes
> social day-to-day discrimination and state discrimination. Or do you
> think Russians suffered as much as Crimean Tartars in the Soviet
> Union?
>
> Alina
>
> On Jun 22, 2014, at 1:46 PM, Stanislav Chernyshov
> <extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU> wrote:
>
>> Dear Robert,
>>
>> Being Russian I was slightly surprised Russians haven't suffered 
>> oppression. Reading some Solzhenitsyn (available in English) could 
>> really change your view.
>> And precisely because we've suffered oppression, including 
>> censorship and persecution for "thought crimes", I think many Russians 
>> can understand Jules's just defending free speech and privacy ("home") 
>> against political control of language usage.
>>
>> Jennifer, please, for sure nobody on this list supports slavery or 
>> any sort of discrimination.
>>
>> And, "miru mir!"
>>
>> Stanislav
>>
>
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
> subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface 
> at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
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From levitt at DORNSIFE.USC.EDU  Sun Jun 22 18:49:22 2014
From: levitt at DORNSIFE.USC.EDU (Marcus C. Levitt)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 18:49:22 +0000
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.184922.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Is the answer to Jennifer's question (how exactly do you refer to African-Americans in the privacy of your home?)

necessarily racist? That seems to be the unspoken conclusion. But such alternate terms as "black" and "negro" are not necessarily derogatory even if A-A is more politically correct.

Yours,

Marcus


On Sun, Jun 22, 2014 at 7:10 PM, Jules Levin <ameliede at earthlink.net<mailto:ameliede at earthlink.net>> wrote:
On 22.06.2014 8:55, Jennifer L. Wilson wrote:
"Old guys like me are still coherent enough to switch to
African-American when speaking to my A-A neighbor, but my neighbor is
rational enough not to tell me to use only A-A even when speaking to my
own family members in the privacy of my home."

I will be unsubscribing from this list.  I'm very saddened at the number of people who said "I agree with Jules" after a comment like this.  To Jules, how exactly do you refer to African-Americans in the privacy of your home?

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From jlwtwo at PRINCETON.EDU  Sun Jun 22 19:08:02 2014
From: jlwtwo at PRINCETON.EDU (Jennifer L. Wilson)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 19:08:02 +0000
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <83578b487ccdc8a90207d92cdc53f262@learnrussian.ru>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.190802.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Hi everyone,

First off, I'd like to thank those who have responded both on list and off with words of support and understanding.  I recognize that the insensitivity that appeared on the list today represents a minority of voices within the field, though I shudder to think that such a minority exists within the ranks of university instructors.    

To Jules-- I must say I applaud your consistency.  I could not have dreamed of a more fitting response to a charge of racism than suggesting that the African-American in question did not possess the mental faculty to follow your argument.   Thank you for that gem.  

To the point of free speech, no one is suggesting that Jules be fined or thrown into jail for his comments.   That said, this is a listserv for people working in a profession that is student facing, and our universities have thankfully become far more diverse in the past decades.  I am concerned that there is not more dialogue about race and ethnicity within this field, and I worry about the effect that might have on how students of color are engaged and treated within Slavic Studies departments.   I am also concerned about the students of color who are on this listserv to learn more about this field (as I did when I was still an undergraduate).  Seeing such attitudes openly expressed and supported would have certainly discouraged me from continuing on in Slavic Studies, just as reports of racist violence in Russia almost made me reconsider traveling there. 

I want to add that I should have also taken Jules to task for denigrating Edyta Bojanowska's comment about gender neutral language.  If Jules or anyone else needs an example of what she meant, take a statement like "the next president of the United States, whoever HE may be." That phrasing normalizes male dominance in politics, and suggests that women in leadership are exceptions, and that men are the rule. Language absolutely matters.  

This all said, it's certainly easy for us to recognize Jules' comments as egregious and deeply offensive.  I worry, however, that by focusing too much on these sensational acts of racism, we ignore the more subtle forms of racism that plague academia and our field more specifically.  

Sincerely,

Jennifer Wilson 
________________________________________
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of Stanislav Chernyshov [extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU]
Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2014 2:46 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Ukraine/The Ukraine

You are right about the difference, Alina, that was exactly why I
referred to "oppression" and not "discrimination".

"Or do you think Russians suffered as much as Crimean Tartars in the
Soviet Union?" - I think that many Russians did, including my family.
Not because of their ethnicity, like Crimean Tartars, just because they
were wealthy peasants.

Didn't think talking about Russians being oppressed by the Soviet
regime would be any news in an American Slavists' discussion.

Stanislav

Alina Israeli писал 2014-06-22 22:15:
> One has to differentiate between oppression from a totalitarian
> government and the one from being a minority group which includes
> social day-to-day discrimination and state discrimination. Or do you
> think Russians suffered as much as Crimean Tartars in the Soviet
> Union?
>
> Alina
>
> On Jun 22, 2014, at 1:46 PM, Stanislav Chernyshov
> <extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU> wrote:
>
>> Dear Robert,
>>
>> Being Russian I was slightly surprised Russians haven't suffered
>> oppression. Reading some Solzhenitsyn (available in English) could
>> really change your view.
>> And precisely because we've suffered oppression, including
>> censorship and persecution for "thought crimes", I think many Russians
>> can understand Jules's just defending free speech and privacy ("home")
>> against political control of language usage.
>>
>> Jennifer, please, for sure nobody on this list supports slavery or
>> any sort of discrimination.
>>
>> And, "miru mir!"
>>
>> Stanislav
>>
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From ben.phillips at GMAIL.COM  Sun Jun 22 19:29:05 2014
From: ben.phillips at GMAIL.COM (Ben Phillips)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 23:29:05 +0400
Subject: Ukraine / The Ukraine
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.232905.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Stas,

As others have pointed out, this is not a conversation about political
oppression per se, it is a conversation about language and postcoloniality.
Of course, the historical specifics of the Russo-Soviet situation (if I can
call it that) mean that it is very difficult to speak of Russians as
colonisers and Ukrainians, Belorussians and others as colonised subjects -
ethnic Russians are in many ways a (post)colonial people themselves, as I
have been fortunate to discuss many times with you in person. But that is a
separate topic. Referring to Ukraine rather than 'the Ukraine' is not about
political correctness, nor is it about political control of language. It is
a question of recognising agency and historical injustice.

Without particularly wishing to get involved, I agree that Jules Levin's
earlier comments - in respect of Jennifer Wilson as well as 'lefty
academics' - are disrespectful and rude. I also agree perforce with Eliot
Borenstein that this list really needs better moderation.

Ben Phillips
UCL SSEES
16 Taviton Street
London
United Kingdom
WC1H 0BW
020 7679 8700
b.phillips.12 at ucl.ac.uk

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From 0000001c0f9aa841-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UA.EDU  Sun Jun 22 19:31:59 2014
From: 0000001c0f9aa841-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UA.EDU (William Derbyshire)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 15:31:59 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.153159.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Enough, already! My screen is full of letters no longer or only distantly  
related to the original
topic. I have never read a more disgusting exchange of emails on SEELANGS  
with insults
flying left and right. The use of na vs. v preceding Ukraine has a very  
logical historic and
linguistic explanation. One letter would have sufficed to explain the  
issue.
Bill Derbyshire
 
 


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From extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU  Sun Jun 22 20:03:33 2014
From: extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU (Stanislav Chernyshov)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 00:03:33 +0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <6137.7bb338b3.40d8892f@aol.com>
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.000333.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Ukrainians, by the way, have a joke on this issue. When Russians say: 
"Why would you care, after all, whether we say v or na Ukraine", they 
reply: "Do you see any difference between лежать на земле versus лежать 
в земле?"

Stanislav

William Derbyshire писал 2014-06-22 23:31:
> Enough, already! My screen is full of letters no longer or only
> distantly related to the original
> topic. I have never read a more disgusting exchange of emails on
> SEELANGS with insults
> flying left and right. The use of na vs. v preceding Ukraine has a
> very logical historic and
> linguistic explanation. One letter would have sufficed to explain the 
> issue.
> Bill Derbyshire
>
>
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web
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> 
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From moss at MIDDLEBURY.EDU  Mon Jun 23 01:37:40 2014
From: moss at MIDDLEBURY.EDU (Moss, Kevin M.)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 01:37:40 +0000
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <00f001cf8c58$ba4d1be0$2ee753a0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.013740.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I spent the day pondering a response to yesterday's disturbing messages only to find that today's have taken a turn for the even worse.

First my response off-list to my esteemed classmate Michele:
"(Never in a million years will I get why this is a big deal.)"

- because some people get off on offending others and take umbrage at anyone
who criticizes their god-given right to do that.

(See all the "Christians" now complaining about persecution because they can no longer stop others from getting married.)

I agree with Vitaly and Eliot. To Eliot's line about how one would hope for a minimum of empathy, I'd say, for some, apparently, we can't expect even that.

I have grown used to reciting the fact that I was trained in a Slavic field that had yet to incorporate even a feminist critique, to say nothing of gender, race, or post-colonial critiques. There was none of that. We were a generation or more behind our colleagues in English or Romance literatures and cultures. We can point to our target culture, which still mostly fails to distinguish between gender and sex. But we and our students are not in Russia. We have no excuse, other than willful ignorance, for refusing to learn how to communicate in 2014.

I wanted to point out, especially for newer generations of scholars, that, while we still have with us some vestiges of the previous era and some trolls, the exciting scholarship is being done by people like Berdy and Borenstein and Chernetsky and Naiman, and, oh look! They're all in agreement!

I, for one, use в/на Украине as a teaching moment each year in 1st and 2nd year Russian. Language changes and language is political (I'm surprised no South Slavic scholars have chimed in: the language I learned in the 70s is now 3 or even 4, all for political reasons, by which I mean even the 1 was political). I don't know why anyone who claims to be a scholar would want to pretend otherwise.

Thank you to everyone who has contributed, even if we have gone off topic (and I've taken it even further). As someone who grew up in a racist milieu in the South and who now faces a different kind of bigotry fairly often, I think it's always important to call it out. And I don't see why people get so offended at being called a bigot or accused of using bigoted language. Believe me, it's much less harmful than being the object of bigotry in a world where the bigots are in control and where their language goes unchallenged. I don't see many bigots who have been deprived of their freedoms or who have committed suicide because the world is just so so awful to them.

Kevin Moss
Jean Thomson Fulton Professor of Modern Languages & Literature
Middlebury College

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 20, 2014, at 3:25 AM, "Michele A Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> The question is, if they can tell us how to speak English, can we tell them how to speak Ukrainian?
> 
> You probably meant to write: If they can ask us to use a form that is, in their view, more respectful, can we ask them the same?
> I guess so. Why not?
> If someone asks me to call her Ms., I don't call her Miss; if someone asks me not to call him a Gypsy, I call him Roma; if someone prefers to be called an African-American instead of a Negro, I comply. I don't have to, but why would I want to offend someone? 
> 
> (Never in a million years will I get why this is a big deal.) 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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From eloise.boyle at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 23 02:14:50 2014
From: eloise.boyle at GMAIL.COM (Eloise Boyle)
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 2014 19:14:50 -0700
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <9C6551F6-C876-4A12-A8E2-1E35512ADE86@middlebury.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.22.JUN.2014.191450.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Hear hear, Kevin!

Eloise

Sent from my iPhone-so THAT explains the spelling! :-) 

> On Jun 22, 2014, at 6:37 PM, "Moss, Kevin M." <moss at MIDDLEBURY.EDU> wrote:
> 
> I spent the day pondering a response to yesterday's disturbing messages only to find that today's have taken a turn for the even worse.
> 
> First my response off-list to my esteemed classmate Michele:
> "(Never in a million years will I get why this is a big deal.)"
> 
> - because some people get off on offending others and take umbrage at anyone
> who criticizes their god-given right to do that.
> 
> (See all the "Christians" now complaining about persecution because they can no longer stop others from getting married.)
> 
> I agree with Vitaly and Eliot. To Eliot's line about how one would hope for a minimum of empathy, I'd say, for some, apparently, we can't expect even that.
> 
> I have grown used to reciting the fact that I was trained in a Slavic field that had yet to incorporate even a feminist critique, to say nothing of gender, race, or post-colonial critiques. There was none of that. We were a generation or more behind our colleagues in English or Romance literatures and cultures. We can point to our target culture, which still mostly fails to distinguish between gender and sex. But we and our students are not in Russia. We have no excuse, other than willful ignorance, for refusing to learn how to communicate in 2014.
> 
> I wanted to point out, especially for newer generations of scholars, that, while we still have with us some vestiges of the previous era and some trolls, the exciting scholarship is being done by people like Berdy and Borenstein and Chernetsky and Naiman, and, oh look! They're all in agreement!
> 
> I, for one, use в/на Украине as a teaching moment each year in 1st and 2nd year Russian. Language changes and language is political (I'm surprised no South Slavic scholars have chimed in: the language I learned in the 70s is now 3 or even 4, all for political reasons, by which I mean even the 1 was political). I don't know why anyone who claims to be a scholar would want to pretend otherwise.
> 
> Thank you to everyone who has contributed, even if we have gone off topic (and I've taken it even further). As someone who grew up in a racist milieu in the South and who now faces a different kind of bigotry fairly often, I think it's always important to call it out. And I don't see why people get so offended at being called a bigot or accused of using bigoted language. Believe me, it's much less harmful than being the object of bigotry in a world where the bigots are in control and where their language goes unchallenged. I don't see many bigots who have been deprived of their freedoms or who have committed suicide because the world is just so so awful to them.
> 
> Kevin Moss
> Jean Thomson Fulton Professor of Modern Languages & Literature
> Middlebury College
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Jun 20, 2014, at 3:25 AM, "Michele A Berdy" <maberdy at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>> 
>> The question is, if they can tell us how to speak English, can we tell them how to speak Ukrainian?
>> 
>> You probably meant to write: If they can ask us to use a form that is, in their view, more respectful, can we ask them the same?
>> I guess so. Why not?
>> If someone asks me to call her Ms., I don't call her Miss; if someone asks me not to call him a Gypsy, I call him Roma; if someone prefers to be called an African-American instead of a Negro, I comply. I don't have to, but why would I want to offend someone? 
>> 
>> (Never in a million years will I get why this is a big deal.) 
>> 
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>> options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                       http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From colkitto at ROGERS.COM  Mon Jun 23 07:34:57 2014
From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (Robert Orr)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 03:34:57 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <A064D11A-8D57-473D-9197-93FC13E7573B@american.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.033457.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Or do you think Russians suffered as much as Crimean Tartars in the Soviet Union?

Maybe they perceived themselves as such

I've just recalled a joke from the Reagan-Gorbachev era (quoting from memory)

R:in America nearly all families have cars!
G: in Lithuania nearly all families have cars!
R:  in America many families have second homes in the country!
G: in Georgia many families have second homes in the country!
R:  hey, wait a minute!  Lithuanians, Georgians!  What about ordinary Russians?
G: oh come on!  I don't ask you about Black Americans!


It would have great fun to have watched a pampered American academic to appear on Soviet TV in response to that joke explaining to ordinary Russians how they were actually "privileged"

> 
> Alina
> 
>> On Jun 22, 2014, at 1:46 PM, Stanislav Chernyshov <extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU> wrote:
>> 
>> Dear Robert,
>> 
>> Being Russian I was slightly surprised Russians haven't suffered oppression. Reading some Solzhenitsyn (available in English) could really change your view.
>> And precisely because we've suffered oppression, including censorship and persecution for "thought crimes", I think many Russians can understand Jules's just defending free speech and privacy ("home") against political control of language usage.
>> 
>> Jennifer, please, for sure nobody on this list supports slavery or any sort of discrimination.
>> 
>> And, "miru mir!"
>> 
>> Stanislav
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>  options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
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From colkitto at ROGERS.COM  Mon Jun 23 07:59:52 2014
From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (Robert Orr)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 03:59:52 -0400
Subject: Ukraine/The Ukraine
In-Reply-To: <5D1A301644CFC94DB8024EFF7017CA9711EB1060@CSGMBX201W.pu.win.princeton.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.035952.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 22, 2014, at 3:08 PM, "Jennifer L. Wilson" <jlwtwo at PRINCETON.EDU> wrote:
> 
> ...... 
> 
> "I want to add that I should have also taken Jules to task for denigrating Edyta Bojanowska's comment about gender neutral language."


I'd actually like to support Jules' comment about gender.  If I were ever in charge of "diversity training/"reeducation(?)" I would have all non-linguists write out a hundred times:

"Gender is a grammatical category and has nothing to do with sex"

And gender in its original meaning, along with its purely linguistic manifestations, is a very important part of Slavic studies.


> "If Jules or anyone else needs an example of what she meant, take a statement like "the next president of the United States, whoever HE may be." That phrasing normalizes male dominance in politics, and suggests that women in leadership are exceptions, and that men are the rule."

I don't know what fields/subfields of Russian/Slavic studies you are interested in, but if linguistics is not one of them you could maybe check out that remark in the context of markedness.

And are you asking Polish speakers to drop the "masculine personal" (sub?)gender? 

> Language absolutely matters. 
> 
It does!  But from a linguistic point of view the comment "if Jules or anyone else ..." is almost crude.
> 

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From naiman at BERKELEY.EDU  Mon Jun 23 10:21:41 2014
From: naiman at BERKELEY.EDU (Eric NAIMAN)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 12:21:41 +0200
Subject: sex on the blackboard
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.122141.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

 *If I were ever in charge of "diversity training/"reeducation(?)" I would
have all non-linguists write out a hundred times:*



*"Gender is a grammatical category and has nothing to do with sex"*




    Several times, I’ve been cautioned that writing about sex can be one
way of avoiding its ramifications in the real world. Professor Orr’s
posting is an eloquent reminder of the wisdom of that reproach.



    Please forgive the incestuous metaphor, but *this* is one area in which
repetition should not be the mother of learning.

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From vchernetsky at KU.EDU  Mon Jun 23 14:59:45 2014
From: vchernetsky at KU.EDU (Chernetsky, Vitaly A)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 14:59:45 +0000
Subject: CFP, conference on Vera Komissarzhevskaia and Eleonora Duse,
 Venice, March 2015
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.145945.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

Forwarded upon request. Please spread the word as appropriate:

***

A conference to be held in March 2015 at the Fondazione Giorgio Cini, Venice, with the title: VERA KOMISSARŽEVSKAJA MEETS ELEONORA DUSE. The ‘Joan of Arc’ of the Russian scene and the ‘Divina’ of Italian theatre.

Organised by Maria Ida Biggi and Donatella Gavrilovich on the 150th birth anniversary of the Russian actress Vera Fëdorovna Komissarževskaja, the international conference intends to elaborate and deepen the research upon this important figure of the Russian theatre of the turn of the 20th Century.

Abstracts (no more than 300 words) can be written in English, French or Italian and shall be sent – together with a CV – to Professor Maria Ida Biggi at teatromelodramma at cini.it by September 30, 2014.

***

---------------------------------------------------------
Vitaly Chernetsky
Associate Professor
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
University of Kansas
2140 Wescoe Hall, 1445 Jayhawk Blvd.
Lawrence, KS 66045-7594
(785) 864-2359
vchernetsky at ku.edu
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From alex.rudd at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 23 19:48:35 2014
From: alex.rudd at GMAIL.COM (Alex Rudd)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 12:48:35 -0700
Subject: SEELANGS Administrivia - PLEASE READ (all the way to the end of
 this post)
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.124835.0700.>

Dear SEELANGers,

Numerous subscribers of this list have written me privately to request,
nay, to beg, that I impose forthwith a new rule outlawing discussion on
SEELANGS of any and all topics save two: abortion and gun control.
 Everybody okay with that?

Yes, I am joking.

I will keep this relatively brief.  As list owner, part of what I'm charged
with doing is ensuring the smooth operation of this list.  When the
discourse devolves as it has recently, and when subscribers begin to
unsubscribe in any significant number as they have recently, the list is
not operating smoothly.

So what's the problem?  I suspect that many of you would define it
differently from one another.  From my point of view (for whatever that's
worth), there's actually more than one problem here.  The most glaring
issue is an apparent paucity of sensitivity for the feelings and
sensibilities of fellow list members.  Entire populations of regions,
countries, peoples or cultures might be offended by a particular
appellation or preposition or by whether or not a certain article is
present in a name, but all of those people don't subscribe to SEELANGS.
 Some accidental representatives of many populations do subscribe, though,
so on this list, the abstract can quickly become real.  It's also important
to remember that, although common interests bring us together here, we are
as diverse a bunch of people as might be found in any large city.  We bring
differing backgrounds, experiences and world views.  That is a strength of
SEELANGS, not a weakness.  It becomes a weakness only when we lose sight of
that fact, or intentionally ignore it, and civility becomes the victim.

Please keep it civil.  Please be respectful.  Sometimes that means saying
nothing at all or taking it off-list.  Life will go on.

A corollary to that problem is a more minor one, but is the one that might
have contributed to sparking this most recent conflagration in the first
place.  Specifically, it's what can happen when list members respond to a
post by contributing something only tangentially-related, or unrelated, to
the original thread.  Often, there's nothing wrong with that, because a
new, equally-interesting and deserving thread is born.  Sometimes, though,
the opposite is true, and such meanderings invite more of the same.

If there's a narrow question asked or topic raised, my suggestion would be
to keep that thread focused on that topic.  If you want to take it
somewhere else, then start a new thread, or at least change the Subject:
line so LISTSERV treats it as a new thread.

Here's another problem, which seems to get exacerbated every time there's a
flurry of activity like we've seen over the past few days.  List members
forget the most basic of guidelines.  Here, for the umpteenth time,
straight from the SEELANGS Welcome message sent to all new subscribers, is
the most-ignored list guideline:

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From AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU  Mon Jun 23 20:16:19 2014
From: AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU (Anthony Anemone)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:16:19 +0400
Subject: Money question
Message-ID: <TUE.24.JUN.2014.001619.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Recently in the archives I've come across Mosfilm contracts from 1950
paying, for example,  60,000 rr to an author for turning his own original
play into a literary screenplay and a director getting 15,000 rr for
turning the literary script into a director's script.  Can someone give me
a ballpark figure for what these amounts of money would have meant in 1950?


Thanks,
Tony

-- 
Tony Anemone
Associate Professor
The New School
72 Fifth Ave, 702
New York, NY 10011

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From jtishler at CREECA.WISC.EDU  Mon Jun 23 20:22:33 2014
From: jtishler at CREECA.WISC.EDU (Jennifer Tishler)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 15:22:33 -0500
Subject: Recommendations of short stories about law
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.152233.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

A colleague of mine who teaches Political Science and Law is leading a 
first-year seminar on "Law and Disorder in Russia." She is looking for 
recommendations of contemporary short stories--available in English 
translation--that would deal with some aspect of everyday life that 
touches on the law: housing issues, divorce, etc. Please post your 
recommendations to the list and I'll send them on.

~Jennifer

-- 
Jennifer Ryan Tishler, Ph.D.
Associate Director
Center for Russia, East Europe, and Central Asia (CREECA)
210 Ingraham Hall
1155 Observatory Drive
University of Wisconsin-Madison
Madison, WI 53706
Phone: (608) 262-3379
Fax: (608) 890-0267
http://www.creeca.wisc.edu
http://creecajobsandfunding.wordpress.com


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From adamovitchk at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 23 21:07:16 2014
From: adamovitchk at GMAIL.COM (Ksenia Adamovitch)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 17:07:16 -0400
Subject: Money question
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt8wg_mwSy4hqjF6XNhUhSDPCcEN9=gg_StjPCqD2bMB0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.170716.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Here are some salary tables: http://istmat.info/node/18454 and
http://opoccuu.com/wages.htm
Average monthly salary for 1950 is roughly 600 rubles, so that would make
both of these authors extremely well-paid.
I would actually say extraordinarily so.

Best,
Ksenia



On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Anthony Anemone <AnemoneA at newschool.edu>
wrote:

> Recently in the archives I've come across Mosfilm contracts from 1950
> paying, for example,  60,000 rr to an author for turning his own original
> play into a literary screenplay and a director getting 15,000 rr for
> turning the literary script into a director's script.  Can someone give me
> a ballpark figure for what these amounts of money would have meant in 1950?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
> --
> Tony Anemone
> Associate Professor
> The New School
> 72 Fifth Ave, 702
> New York, NY 10011
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU  Mon Jun 23 21:07:58 2014
From: extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU (Stanislav Chernyshov)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 01:07:58 +0400
Subject: Money question
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt8wg_mwSy4hqjF6XNhUhSDPCcEN9=gg_StjPCqD2bMB0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.24.JUN.2014.010758.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I'm not old enough to remember, but here you can find some information 
on money value in the USSR in 1950: 
http://krotov.info/yakov/rus/20_ru_moi/1946_dengi.htm

Regards,

Stanislav

Anthony Anemone писал 2014-06-24 00:16:
> Recently in the archives I've come across Mosfilm contracts from 1950
> paying, for example,  60,000 rr to an author for turning his own
> original play into a literary screenplay and a director getting 
> 15,000
> rr for turning the literary script into a director's script.  Can
> someone give me a ballpark figure for what these amounts of money
> would have meant in 1950?  
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
> --
> Tony Anemone
> Associate Professor
> The New School
> 72 Fifth Ave, 702
> New York, NY 10011
>
>
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your
> subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web
> Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs [1]
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Links:
> ------
> [1] http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs

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From rrobin at EMAIL.GWU.EDU  Mon Jun 23 20:37:59 2014
From: rrobin at EMAIL.GWU.EDU (Richard Robin)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 16:37:59 -0400
Subject: Money question
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt8wg_mwSy4hqjF6XNhUhSDPCcEN9=gg_StjPCqD2bMB0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.163759.0400.>

​Others will correct me if I'm wrong. But in 1950, the ruble was
​officially worth 10 times the amount it was worth at devaluation in 1961.
In 1961, the average salary was 100 rubles. A university full professor
made about 400 - 500, a bus driver, 150 or so. In 1961 the official
exchange rate was $1.10 to the ruble, unoffocially a ruble was about 20 to
25 cents.

So 60,000 r then would have been 600 r in 1961, about sixth months average
salary.

Rich


On Mon, Jun 23, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Anthony Anemone <AnemoneA at newschool.edu>
wrote:

> Recently in the archives I've come across Mosfilm contracts from 1950
> paying, for example,  60,000 rr to an author for turning his own original
> play into a literary screenplay and a director getting 15,000 rr for
> turning the literary script into a director's script.  Can someone give me
> a ballpark figure for what these amounts of money would have meant in 1950?
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tony
>
> --
> Tony Anemone
> Associate Professor
> The New School
> 72 Fifth Ave, 702
> New York, NY 10011
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------




-- 
Richard M. Robin, Ph.D.
Director Russian Language Program
Academy of Distinguished Teachers
The George Washington University
Washington, DC 20052
202-994-7081

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From pilshch at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 23 20:56:01 2014
From: pilshch at GMAIL.COM (Igor Pilshchikov)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 23:56:01 +0300
Subject: Money question
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt8wg_mwSy4hqjF6XNhUhSDPCcEN9=gg_StjPCqD2bMB0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.235601.0300.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

2014-06-23 23:16 GMT+03:00 Anthony Anemone <AnemoneA at newschool.edu>:

> what these amounts of money would have meant in 1950?
>
> The average salary was ca 640 rr per month in 1950 and ca 750 in 1956.
Khrushchev's salary in 1956 was ca 8,000 rr per month.

Best,
Igor

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From agregovich at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 23 21:54:38 2014
From: agregovich at GMAIL.COM (Andrea Gregovich)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 13:54:38 -0800
Subject: translation question:
 =?UTF-8?Q?=D1=80=D0=B0=D1=81=D1=81=D1=82=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B0_=D0=B8?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?_=D0=BA=D0=B0=D0=B7=D0=BD=D1=8C?=
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.135438.0800.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I'm translating a story in which the word "расстрела" features
prominently as part of the title.  While "shooting" seems to be its
primary definition, it makes the most sense as "execution" in its
context.  Later, though, the word "казнь" is used once.  According to
dictionaries it also means "execution" or "capital punishment", which
makes sense in context, but I'm wondering how it differs in meaning
from "расстрела".  Does "казнь" have religious connotations?  Could it
be taken to mean "penance" or something like that?  This would be
important in the story.  I'm questioning this one based on a old,
possibly fallible memory of learning that our translation of the title
"Crime and Punishment" is actually kind of weak, because "наказание"
(with that "казн" root) carries implications of punishment as
retribution, not just punishment as penalty.

Thanks!
Andrea Gregovich

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From paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM  Mon Jun 23 22:40:50 2014
From: paulbg at PBG-TRANSLATIONS.COM (Paul B. Gallagher)
Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2014 18:40:50 -0400
Subject: translation question:
 =?UTF-8?Q?=D1=80=D0=B0=D1=81=D1=81=D1=82=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B0_=D0=B8?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?_=D0=BA=D0=B0=D0=B7=D0=BD=D1=8C?=
In-Reply-To: <CAFrOSKh42Q_kn+3FNKJGZ4mjONTTFehxfeEJ=gJ+f=0BmH5ibA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MON.23.JUN.2014.184050.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Andrea Gregovich wrote:

> I'm translating a story in which the word "расстрела" features
> prominently as part of the title.  While "shooting" seems to be its
> primary definition, it makes the most sense as "execution" in its
> context.  Later, though, the word "казнь" is used once.  According
> to dictionaries it also means "execution" or "capital punishment",
> which makes sense in context, but I'm wondering how it differs in
> meaning from "расстрела".  Does "казнь" have religious connotations?
> Could it be taken to mean "penance" or something like that?  This
> would be important in the story.  I'm questioning this one based on a
> old, possibly fallible memory of learning that our translation of the
> title "Crime and Punishment" is actually kind of weak, because
> "наказание" (with that "казн" root) carries implications of
> punishment as retribution, not just punishment as penalty.

To my ear, расстрел focuses on the method (though of course we 
understand the purpose), while казнь focuses on the reason or 
justification (and it need not be fatal).

There were cases in WW II when the Nazis расстреляли people, and it had 
nothing to do with crime or punishment. Similarly, the events at Newtown 
or Columbine (or pick your favorite mass shooting) could be described as 
расстрел without implying any justification of the shooting or guilt on 
the part of the victims.

On the other hand, while казнь is often associated with смертная, the 
root and its various forms are broader than that, encompassing a wide 
variety of punishments, the key being that they are imposed as 
retribution, punishment, etc. for real or imagined wrongdoing.

The two terms meet in your context, but they come at it from different 
directions, so to speak.

-- 
War doesn't determine who's right, just who's left.
--
Paul B. Gallagher
pbg translations, inc.
"Russian Translations That Read Like Originals"
http://pbg-translations.com

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From tonyanemone at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jun 24 02:55:39 2014
From: tonyanemone at GMAIL.COM (Tony Anemone)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 06:55:39 +0400
Subject: Money question
In-Reply-To: <CABp_ZhXq=VBw0D-Tut7aPhecime51dN5L7XrgGa4UuGmutw1RQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.24.JUN.2014.065539.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Thanks to all who replied to my question about comparing salaries in the late Stalin years.  

Tony

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 24, 2014, at 12:56 AM, Igor Pilshchikov <pilshch at GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> 
> 2014-06-23 23:16 GMT+03:00 Anthony Anemone <AnemoneA at newschool.edu>:
>> what these amounts of money would have meant in 1950?  
> The average salary was ca 640 rr per month in 1950 and ca 750 in 1956. Khrushchev's salary in 1956 was ca 8,000 rr per month.
> 
> Best,
> Igor
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at: http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From ksenia.kologrieva at GMAIL.COM  Tue Jun 24 06:44:17 2014
From: ksenia.kologrieva at GMAIL.COM (Ksenia Kologrieva)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 00:44:17 -0600
Subject: Corrective Feedback in Language Learning
Message-ID: <TUE.24.JUN.2014.004417.0600.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

Are there any experts on Corrective Feedback in Language Learning in our
wonderful group? Please contact me if you are one of them or if know
someone.

Thanks in advance!

*Best regards,*
*Ksenia Kologrieva*

Cloudberry Language School

Phone: 773-942-6262

www.cloudberrylanguageschool.com

Find a Common Language!

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From rmcleminson at POST.SK  Tue Jun 24 10:38:00 2014
From: rmcleminson at POST.SK (R. M. Cleminson)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 12:38:00 +0200
Subject: translation question:
 =?utf-8?Q?=D1=80=D0=B0=D1=81=D1=81=D1=82=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B0_=D0=B8?=
 =?utf-8?Q?_=D0=BA=D0=B0=D0=B7=D0=BD=D1=8C?=
In-Reply-To: <CAFrOSKh42Q_kn+3FNKJGZ4mjONTTFehxfeEJ=gJ+f=0BmH5ibA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.24.JUN.2014.123800.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

As Paul Gallagher has already said, расстрел = shooting (for whatever reason), while казнь = execution (by whatever method).

However, although казнь and наказание both contain the same root kaz-, in Modern Russian they have diverged to the extent that there is no longer any perceived connexion between them, any more than there is with отказаться, сказать, etc.

Казнь does not have religious connotations.  It is not connected etymologically with каяться, покаяние, etc., and cannot be taken to mean "penance".

"Наказание" may mean punishment as retribution, or punishment as penalty, just as the English word "punishment" can, but not to any greater or lesser extent.

Obviously the situation is different in other Slavonic languages, or in mediaeval Russian, but I infer that this is not relevant here.
_____________________________________________________________________

Denne vyberame najlepsie hry - http://www.hrymat.sk

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From 0000001fc5396912-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UA.EDU  Tue Jun 24 17:05:53 2014
From: 0000001fc5396912-dmarc-request at LISTSERV.UA.EDU (Diana West)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 13:05:53 -0400
Subject: looking for apartment in St. Petersburg
In-Reply-To: <1275575668.9001.1403606280406.JavaMail.root@mbox01.in.post.sk>
Message-ID: <TUE.24.JUN.2014.130553.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGSovsty, 

We're looking for an apartment in St. Petersburg for the Academic year 2014-2015 for a family with a 4 year old child. Ideally in the center, 3 rooms. Please let me know if you have something you're trying to rent out or sublet.

Reply off the list to dkurkovsky at yahoo.com

Thanks!

Diana Kurkovsky West
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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Tue Jun 24 21:27:47 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 22:27:47 +0100
Subject: SUBTLY WORDED by Teffi
Message-ID: <TUE.24.JUN.2014.222747.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

After all the fraught postings of recent days, I want to bring to your attention one of the most beautifully produced books I have ever been involved with:
SUBTLY WORDED by TEFFI (Pushkin Press, June 2014)
http://tinyurl.com/ox3953m
Today this utterly wonderful review was published by the Guardian:
http://tinyurl.com/o6lvmmk

Anne Marie Jackson, the compiler and main translator of this volume, and I want to thank all the many SEELANGERS who have, over the years, helped to answer our many questions about Teffi.

I am deeply grateful for the existence of SEELANGS.

All the best,

Robert

Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD

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From zielinski at GMX.CH  Tue Jun 24 21:44:16 2014
From: zielinski at GMX.CH (Jan Zielinski)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 23:44:16 +0200
Subject: SUBTLY WORDED by Teffi
In-Reply-To: <349581E0-C782-4532-ADEF-6CB3082B387B@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.24.JUN.2014.234416.0200.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Congratulations, Robert!
And what a nice opening of the review, with the first paragraph to fall 
in love with. It could swing oneself into a bishopric.
Finally something positive.

Jan Zielinski
Berne

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From frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU  Wed Jun 25 02:27:51 2014
From: frosset at WHEATONMA.EDU (Francoise Rosset)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 08:27:51 +0600
Subject: SUBTLY WORDED by Teffi
In-Reply-To: <349581E0-C782-4532-ADEF-6CB3082B387B@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <WED.25.JUN.2014.082751.0600.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Robert,

I still remember many moons ago when you were asking for recommendations on
writers to translate.
I'm so glad you went with Teffi, and so happy at this wonderful result.
Congratulations and thanks to the "Subtly worded" team. If your questions
were any indication, the group was incredibly thorough and thoughtful in
crafting their translations.
Terrific review, -- here's to many more.
-FR


-- 
Françoise Rosset
Chair, Russian and Russian Studies
Wheaton College, Norton MA 02766
*Spring 2014*: Resident Director of Wheaton-in-Bhutan program, Thimphu,
Bhutan
phone # in Bhutan: +975 1750 0593
frosset at wheatonma.edu
frosset at rtc.bt

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Wed Jun 25 03:03:23 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina L. Israeli)
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2014 23:03:23 -0400
Subject: Money question
In-Reply-To: <CAOaVmimpySf=wHxsmwrkw9mscvCfQv-wQC4AdWnyXp92+tvq9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.24.JUN.2014.230323.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

60,000 would be 6,000 in 1961 terms (in France they eliminated two zeros, in the SU only one), not 600. So not six months but a 5 year salary of a driver, teacher or doctor.

It was a price of 3 big cars. 

Цены на новые автомобили в СССР:

1949-1953 гг.:

— Москвич-401 — 8 000 руб.,
— ГАЗ М20В "Победа" — 16 000 руб.,
— ЭМВ-312 (БМВ производства ГДР) — 25 000 руб.,
— ГАЗ-12 — 40 000 руб.,

(source http://www.drive2.ru/b/288230376151863597/)

Alina
On Jun 23, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Richard Robin <rrobin at EMAIL.GWU.EDU> wrote:

> ​Others will correct me if I'm wrong. But in 1950, the ruble was ​officially worth 10 times the amount it was worth at devaluation in 1961. In 1961, the average salary was 100 rubles. A university full professor made about 400 - 500, a bus driver, 150 or so. In 1961 the official exchange rate was $1.10 to the ruble, unoffocially a ruble was about 20 to 25 cents.
> 
> So 60,000 r then would have been 600 r in 1961, about sixth months average salary.
> 
> Rich
> 


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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Wed Jun 25 04:28:44 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 05:28:44 +0100
Subject: SUBTLY WORDED by Teffi
In-Reply-To: <53A9F130.9090305@gmx.ch>
Message-ID: <WED.25.JUN.2014.052844.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Thank you, Jan!

R.

On 24 Jun 2014, at 22:44, Jan Zielinski <zielinski at GMX.CH> wrote:

> Congratulations, Robert!
> And what a nice opening of the review, with the first paragraph to fall in love with. It could swing oneself into a bishopric.
> Finally something positive.
> 
> Jan Zielinski
> Berne
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD

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From xrenovo at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 25 14:15:00 2014
From: xrenovo at GMAIL.COM (Sasha Spektor)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 09:15:00 -0500
Subject: apartment in Moscow
Message-ID: <WED.25.JUN.2014.091500.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Seelangers,

I'm looking for an apartment in Moscow for 3 people from July 31 to Aug 17.
 Hopefully not too expensive and close to transportation.  If you know of
anything, please let me know off the list.

Thank you,
Sasha.

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From jon.stone at FANDM.EDU  Wed Jun 25 14:56:22 2014
From: jon.stone at FANDM.EDU (Jon Stone)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 10:56:22 -0400
Subject: AATSEEL 2015 REMINDER - second (and final) submission deadline:
 July 1
Message-ID: <WED.25.JUN.2014.105622.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Call for Papers:  AATSEEL annual conference (Vancouver, January 8-11, 2015)
 
The AATSEEL Call for Papers is now available:  http://www.aatseel.org/cfp_main

The 2015 AATSEEL Conference will be held on January 8-11, 2015 at the Renaissance Harbourside in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada within easy reach of the Modern Language Association (MLA) conference. In addition to scholarly panels, participants will have the chance to attend advanced seminars, roundtables, workshops and other special events.  
 
The 2015 Advanced Seminars will be led by Mark Lipovetsky (UC-Boulder) and Marcus Levitt (USC). Space will be limited.
 
The AATSEEL conference is a forum for exchange of ideas in all areas of Slavic and East/Central European languages, literatures, linguistics, cultures, and pedagogy.  The Program Committee invites scholars in these and related areas to form panels around specific topics, organize roundtable discussions, propose forums on instructional materials, and/or submit proposals for individual presentations for the 2015 Conference.  The conference regularly includes panels in linguistics, pedagogy and second language acquisition, in addition to literature, cinema, and culture.
 
Please submit your proposals by July 1, 2014.  For more information, visit the AATSEEL website: http://www.aatseel.org/cfp_main
 

Please also note the passport and possible visa requirements for travel to Canada:  http://www.aatseel.org/program/hotel/ 


Jon Stone
Assistant Professor of Russian & Russian Studies
Program Committee Chair, AATSEEL
Franklin & Marshall College
PO Box 3003
Lancaster, PA 17604-3003

Office: 217 Keiper
Phone: (717) 358-5891
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From rossner at UCHICAGO.EDU  Wed Jun 25 17:35:50 2014
From: rossner at UCHICAGO.EDU (Rachel Kathryn Rossner)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 17:35:50 +0000
Subject: Apartment for rent in Dubrovnik, Croatia
Message-ID: <WED.25.JUN.2014.173550.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Spacious, 70 m2, one-bedroom apartment available for short- or long-term rent in Dubrovnik. Located within the walls of the old town of Dubrovnik, the apartment occupies the entire top floor of a stone buiding with medieval foundations. Walk-up, third storey. Large bedroom/living room, dining room, kitchen, bathroom, and generous outdoor terrace with views of the Minceta Tower. Fully furnished, linens and dishes provided. Sleeps 2+. Amenities include: air-conditioning, washing machine, dishwasher, high ceilings, wooden floors. Windows face south and west. Located in a quiet, residential corner tucked above the Sigurata Church. Address: Mala 2. A stone’s throw from the State Archives, Research and City Libraries, 5-minute walk to the Inter-University Centre and the American College of Management and Technology. Roll out of bed to the daily farmer’s market in Gundulic Square, Buža beaches in the city walls, numerous nearby restaurants and cafes, and ferry boats to Lokrum and Elaphite Islands.

Available beginning August 2, 2014. Monthly rate of $1200 USD, plus water and electricity. Preference given to 1-month minimum stays.
View photos at:
https://www.sabbaticalhomes.com/OfferedDetails.aspx?id=69428
http://home.uchicago.edu/~rossner/mala2.jpg

More information upon request. Please contact Rachel Rossner: rossner at uchicago.edu<mailto:rossner at uchicago.edu>

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From kylesbarry at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 25 21:42:00 2014
From: kylesbarry at GMAIL.COM (Kyle Barry)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 16:42:00 -0500
Subject: Translation Questions
Message-ID: <WED.25.JUN.2014.164200.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Hello all,

I have a question or two about translating.

What is the standard procedure for dealing with epigraphs in a translation? I have a quote from a сказка at the beginning of an article, and I was wondering if it's best to provide my own translation, or find a well-established translation of the story and use that.

The epigraph reads: "Криксы-вараксы скакали из-за крутых гор, лезли к попу в огород, оттяпали хвост попову кобелю, затесались в малинник, там подпалили собачий хвост, играли с хвостом." From Aleksei Remizov's Купальские огни.

It would be nice to use an already-done translation, especially since I don't know what to do with Криксы-вараксы, but I haven't been able to find one online. 

Thanks for your help,

Kyle

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From adamovitchk at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 25 22:50:18 2014
From: adamovitchk at GMAIL.COM (Ksenia Adamovitch)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 18:50:18 -0400
Subject: Translation Questions
In-Reply-To: <8813616713975937.WA.kylesbarrygmail.com@listserv.ua.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.25.JUN.2014.185018.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Doesn't look like he's been translated, at least not that I could find.
I would keep криксы-вараксы as kriksy-varaksy with a translated footnote,
also from Remizov (мифическое существо, олицетворение детского крика. Если
ребенок кричит, надо нести его в курник и, качая, приговаривать:
«Криксы-вараксы! идите вы за крутые горы, за темные лесы от младенца
такого-то». Крикса — плакса. Варакса — пустомеля.)

While it's really annoying to footnote an epigraph, unless there's some
similar mythological creature in English-language tales, that's basically
how I'd do it.

Typically with epigraphs or quotes from more obscure writers I translate
myself - even with some famous ones, not all of their works have been
translated.

Good luck!
Best,
Ksenia


On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Kyle Barry <kylesbarry at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> I have a question or two about translating.
>
> What is the standard procedure for dealing with epigraphs in a
> translation? I have a quote from a сказка at the beginning of an article,
> and I was wondering if it's best to provide my own translation, or find a
> well-established translation of the story and use that.
>
> The epigraph reads: "Криксы-вараксы скакали из-за крутых гор, лезли к попу
> в огород, оттяпали хвост попову кобелю, затесались в малинник, там
> подпалили собачий хвост, играли с хвостом." From Aleksei Remizov's
> Купальские огни.
>
> It would be nice to use an already-done translation, especially since I
> don't know what to do with Криксы-вараксы, but I haven't been able to find
> one online.
>
> Thanks for your help,
>
> Kyle
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

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From kylesbarry at GMAIL.COM  Wed Jun 25 23:18:55 2014
From: kylesbarry at GMAIL.COM (Kyle Barry)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 19:18:55 -0400
Subject: Translation Questions
In-Reply-To: <CADwj-PPnvZzfo_eCUK=xWLuCyRchC-nb4ZuY53ScAn3OsN8U7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.25.JUN.2014.191855.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I see, thank you so much!


On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 6:50 PM, Ksenia Adamovitch <adamovitchk at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Doesn't look like he's been translated, at least not that I could find.
> I would keep криксы-вараксы as kriksy-varaksy with a translated footnote,
> also from Remizov (мифическое существо, олицетворение детского крика.
> Если ребенок кричит, надо нести его в курник и, качая, приговаривать:
> «Криксы-вараксы! идите вы за крутые горы, за темные лесы от младенца
> такого-то». Крикса — плакса. Варакса — пустомеля.)
>
> While it's really annoying to footnote an epigraph, unless there's some
> similar mythological creature in English-language tales, that's basically
> how I'd do it.
>
> Typically with epigraphs or quotes from more obscure writers I translate
> myself - even with some famous ones, not all of their works have been
> translated.
>
> Good luck!
> Best,
> Ksenia
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 5:42 PM, Kyle Barry <kylesbarry at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I have a question or two about translating.
>>
>> What is the standard procedure for dealing with epigraphs in a
>> translation? I have a quote from a сказка at the beginning of an article,
>> and I was wondering if it's best to provide my own translation, or find a
>> well-established translation of the story and use that.
>>
>> The epigraph reads: "Криксы-вараксы скакали из-за крутых гор, лезли к
>> попу в огород, оттяпали хвост попову кобелю, затесались в малинник, там
>> подпалили собачий хвост, играли с хвостом." From Aleksei Remizov's
>> Купальские огни.
>>
>> It would be nice to use an already-done translation, especially since I
>> don't know what to do with Криксы-вараксы, but I haven't been able to find
>> one online.
>>
>> Thanks for your help,
>>
>> Kyle
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>>   options, and more.  Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>>                         http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From colkitto at ROGERS.COM  Thu Jun 26 00:27:32 2014
From: colkitto at ROGERS.COM (Robert Orr)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 20:27:32 -0400
Subject: Fwd: [SEELANGS] translation question:
 =?koi8-r?Q?=D2=C1=D3=D3=D4=D2=C5=CC=C1_=C9_=CB=C1=DA=CE=D8?=
In-Reply-To: <01c701cf8f85$c7e32c10$57a98430$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.25.JUN.2014.202732.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

> 
> I'd like to wholeheartedly endorse Ralph's points about расстрел = shooting, наказание, and the root kaz-, каяться, покаяние, etc.,


Robert Orr 
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From agregovich at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 26 02:17:39 2014
From: agregovich at GMAIL.COM (Andrea Gregovich)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 18:17:39 -0800
Subject: Fwd: [SEELANGS] translation question:
 =?UTF-8?Q?=D1=80=D0=B0=D1=81=D1=81=D1=82=D1=80=D0=B5=D0=BB=D0=B0_=D0=B8?=
 =?UTF-8?Q?_=D0=BA=D0=B0=D0=B7=D0=BD=D1=8C?=
In-Reply-To: <933487DC-F959-4CD1-824B-17B63DE0EA5E@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <WED.25.JUN.2014.181739.0800.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Thank you, sirs, for your input!  I appreciate how willing you all are
to help.  The words are very clear to me now.
-- Andrea

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 4:27 PM, Robert Orr <colkitto at rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'd like to wholeheartedly endorse Ralph's points about расстрел = shooting, наказание, and the root kaz-, каяться, покаяние, etc.,
>
>
> Robert Orr
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
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From AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU  Thu Jun 26 04:56:19 2014
From: AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU (Anthony Anemone)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 08:56:19 +0400
Subject: Bureaucratic question
Message-ID: <THU.26.JUN.2014.085619.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

I understand the meaning of the phrase "и. о. начальника. . ."  ("someone
who fulfills the responsibilities of the director"), but I don't really
understand what it means:  is it a temporary position, something like an
acting head of a department while a search is conducted for a permanent
head? or something else?

Thanks!

Tony

-- 
Tony Anemone
Associate Professor
The New School
72 Fifth Ave, 702
New York, NY 10011

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From ajlyon at GMAIL.COM  Thu Jun 26 05:10:06 2014
From: ajlyon at GMAIL.COM (Avram Lyon)
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 22:10:06 -0700
Subject: Bureaucratic question
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt9nzNjgbb5jw2exMVcxaBv4v-0b_BrtCwppO0LWw9xJOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <WED.25.JUN.2014.221006.0700.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

It is generally temporary, and is closest in meaning to "acting", as you
correctly note. It can be prefixed with "временно" to emphasize the fact it
is temporary, yielding the otherwise mysterious word "врио" (так!) without
any periods in it.

For a rather straightforward and dry description of the contractual
requirements for such an arrangement, see Rostrud's guide to the question:
http://git25.rostrud.ru/2858.shtml/xPages/entry.33949.html

"Представим ситуацию, когда руководитель компании уволился, а замену ему
еще не подыскали. Но ведь место руководителя не может пустовать – кто-то
должен управлять компанией. Обычно в таком случае заместителя назначают
исполняющим обязанности руководителя и этим ограничиваются."

- Avram


On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 9:56 PM, Anthony Anemone <AnemoneA at newschool.edu>
wrote:

> I understand the meaning of the phrase "и. о. начальника. . ."  ("someone
> who fulfills the responsibilities of the director"), but I don't really
> understand what it means:  is it a temporary position, something like an
> acting head of a department while a search is conducted for a permanent
> head? or something else?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Tony
>
> --
> Tony Anemone
> Associate Professor
> The New School
> 72 Fifth Ave, 702
> New York, NY 10011
>
>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------

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From AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU  Thu Jun 26 05:25:51 2014
From: AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU (Anthony Anemone)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 09:25:51 +0400
Subject: Bureaucratic question
In-Reply-To: <CAO2oXABkagPOmLJe_FkqEMeE_+__VUEZJpfd42zjgL-jOqkb9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.26.JUN.2014.092551.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

THANKS!


On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 9:10 AM, Avram Lyon <ajlyon at gmail.com> wrote:

> It is generally temporary, and is closest in meaning to "acting", as you
> correctly note. It can be prefixed with "временно" to emphasize the fact it
> is temporary, yielding the otherwise mysterious word "врио" (так!) without
> any periods in it.
>
> For a rather straightforward and dry description of the contractual
> requirements for such an arrangement, see Rostrud's guide to the question:
> http://git25.rostrud.ru/2858.shtml/xPages/entry.33949.html
>
> "Представим ситуацию, когда руководитель компании уволился, а замену ему
> еще не подыскали. Но ведь место руководителя не может пустовать – кто-то
> должен управлять компанией. Обычно в таком случае заместителя назначают
> исполняющим обязанности руководителя и этим ограничиваются."
>
> - Avram
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 9:56 PM, Anthony Anemone <AnemoneA at newschool.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> I understand the meaning of the phrase "и. о. начальника. . ."  ("someone
>> who fulfills the responsibilities of the director"), but I don't really
>> understand what it means:  is it a temporary position, something like an
>> acting head of a department while a search is conducted for a permanent
>> head? or something else?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> --
>> Tony Anemone
>> Associate Professor
>> The New School
>> 72 Fifth Ave, 702
>> New York, NY 10011
>>
>>  -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
>> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
>> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription
> options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:
> http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------




-- 
Tony Anemone
Associate Professor
The New School
72 Fifth Ave, 702
New York, NY 10011

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From aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU  Thu Jun 26 14:11:48 2014
From: aisrael at AMERICAN.EDU (Alina Israeli)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 10:11:48 -0400
Subject: Bureaucratic question
In-Reply-To: <CAKRtqt9nzNjgbb5jw2exMVcxaBv4v-0b_BrtCwppO0LWw9xJOg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.26.JUN.2014.101148.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Yes, like Acting Dean, if he is not the permanent one, but an interim. In case of Egor Gaidar he was always и.о. председателя правительства because he was never confirmed.

Alina

On Jun 26, 2014, at 12:56 AM, Anthony Anemone <AnemoneA at NEWSCHOOL.EDU> wrote:

> I understand the meaning of the phrase "и. о. начальника. . ."  ("someone who fulfills the responsibilities of the director"), but I don't really understand what it means:  is it a temporary position, something like an acting head of a department while a search is conducted for a permanent head? or something else?

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From john at RUSLAN.CO.UK  Fri Jun 27 14:37:56 2014
From: john at RUSLAN.CO.UK (John Langran)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:37:56 +0100
Subject: Ruslan Russian 1 eBook version
Message-ID: <FRI.27.JUN.2014.153756.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGS
This is a new internet version of the Ruslan Russian 1 course, to replace the old CDRom that no longer works on several versions of Windows. The first lesson with all the dialogues, texts, explanations and a large number of interactive exercises is now ready as a free demo, please see www.ruslan.co.uk/interactive.htm for details. The full version is planned for later in 2014.
With best wishes
John Langran
www.ruslan.co.uk 

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From mlermontov at RCN.COM  Fri Jun 27 18:39:37 2014
From: mlermontov at RCN.COM (Mikhail Lipyanskiy)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 14:39:37 -0400
Subject: Naum Korzhavin translations
In-Reply-To: <997ED46619384BAABA2974CAF7DBBEE3@RuslanEeeTop>
Message-ID: <FRI.27.JUN.2014.143937.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGS: 

 

I was wondering if there is a published translation of

Naum Korzhavin's poetry, or even just of this poem (see below). I am working
on translating an article 

that uses the poem and was wondering if there was an established translation
out there.

 

 

 

* * *

Я не был никогда аскетом 
И не мечтал сгореть в огне. 
Я просто русским был поэтом 
В года, доставшиеся мне. 
Я не был сроду слишком смелым. 
Или орудьем высших сил. 
Я просто знал, что делать, делал, 
А было трудно - выносил. 
И если путь был слишком труден, 
Суть в том, что я в той службе служб 
Был подотчетен прямо людям, 
Их душам и судьбе их душ. 
И если в этом - главный кто-то 
Откроет ересь - 
                             что ж, друзья, 
Ведь это все - была работа. 
А без работы - жить нельзя.

                                             1954 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thank you all in advance,

 

 

Mikhail Lipyanskiy

Dept. of Comp Lit.

Queens College 


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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Fri Jun 27 19:42:48 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 20:42:48 +0100
Subject: Naum Korzhavin translations
In-Reply-To: <000601cf9237$265672d0$73035870$@com>
Message-ID: <FRI.27.JUN.2014.204248.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Mikhail,

This poem and a few others by Korzhavin are included in TWENTIETH-CENTURY RUSSIAN POETRY, the large anthology edited by Yevtushenko.  The translations of Korzhavin are all by Albert C. Todd.

All the best,

Robert
On 27 Jun 2014, at 19:39, Mikhail Lipyanskiy <mlermontov at RCN.COM> wrote:

> Dear SEELANGS:
>  
> I was wondering if there is a published translation of
> Naum Korzhavin's poetry, or even just of this poem (see below). I am working on translating an article
> that uses the poem and was wondering if there was an established translation out there.
>  
>  
>  
> * * *
> 
> Я не был никогда аскетом 
> И не мечтал сгореть в огне. 
> Я просто русским был поэтом 
> В года, доставшиеся мне. 
> Я не был сроду слишком смелым. 
> Или орудьем высших сил. 
> Я просто знал, что делать, делал, 
> А было трудно – выносил. 
> И если путь был слишком труден, 
> Суть в том, что я в той службе служб 
> Был подотчетен прямо людям, 
> Их душам и судьбе их душ. 
> И если в этом – главный кто-то 
> Откроет ересь – 
>                              что ж, друзья, 
> Ведь это все – была работа. 
> А без работы – жить нельзя.
> 
>                                              1954 
> 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> thank you all in advance,
>  
>  
> Mikhail Lipyanskiy
> Dept. of Comp Lit.
> Queens College
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web Interface at:http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs -------------------------------------------------------------------------




Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD

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From mlermontov at RCN.COM  Fri Jun 27 19:52:11 2014
From: mlermontov at RCN.COM (Mikhail Lipyanskiy)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 15:52:11 -0400
Subject: Naum Korzhavin translations
In-Reply-To: <311CE1C8-7A4A-4B1B-B381-AB21D64579FC@dial.pipex.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.27.JUN.2014.155211.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

thank you so much! 


ML

-----Original Message-----
From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list
[mailto:SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Robert Chandler
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2014 3:43 PM
To: SEELANGS at LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SEELANGS] Naum Korzhavin translations

Dear Mikhail,

This poem and a few others by Korzhavin are included in TWENTIETH-CENTURY
RUSSIAN POETRY, the large anthology edited by Yevtushenko.  The translations
of Korzhavin are all by Albert C. Todd.

All the best,

Robert
On 27 Jun 2014, at 19:39, Mikhail Lipyanskiy <mlermontov at RCN.COM> wrote:

> Dear SEELANGS:
>  
> I was wondering if there is a published translation of Naum 
> Korzhavin's poetry, or even just of this poem (see below). I am 
> working on translating an article that uses the poem and was wondering if
there was an established translation out there.
>  
>  
>  
> * * *
> 
> Я не был никогда аскетом
> И не мечтал сгореть в огне. 
> Я просто русским был поэтом
> В года, доставшиеся мне. 
> Я не был сроду слишком смелым. 
> Или орудьем высших сил. 
> Я просто знал, что делать, делал,
> А было трудно - выносил. 
> И если путь был слишком труден,
> Суть в том, что я в той службе служб
> Был подотчетен прямо людям,
> Их душам и судьбе их душ. 
> И если в этом - главный кто-то
> Откроет ересь - 
>                              что ж, друзья, Ведь это все - была 
> работа.
> А без работы - жить нельзя.
> 
>                                              1954
> 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> thank you all in advance,
>  
>  
> Mikhail Lipyanskiy
> Dept. of Comp Lit.
> Queens College
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --- Use your web browser to search the archives, control your 
> subscription options, and more. Visit and bookmark the SEELANGS Web 
> Interface at:http://seelangs.wix.com/seelangs 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---




Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD

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From donna.orwin at UTORONTO.CA  Fri Jun 27 21:10:11 2014
From: donna.orwin at UTORONTO.CA (Donna Orwin)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2014 21:10:11 +0000
Subject: Alexander Sodiqov imprisioned in Tajikistan
Message-ID: <FRI.27.JUN.2014.211011.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

I want to draw your attention to this situation in case you don't already know about it.  For an account of the situation by Alex Sodiqov's thesis advisor, see http://globalvoicesonline.org/2014/06/27/tajikistans-detention-of-alexander-sodiqov-cuts-to-the-core-of-what-research-scholars-do/.

It can be  dangerous working in our regions, and we must all defend the value of free scholarly inquiry. Please sign any letters or petitions calling for Sidiqov's release that come your way.

Best to all,

Donna Orwin

________________________________________
Donna Tussing Orwin, FRSC, Professor and Chair
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
University of Toronto
President, Tolstoy Society
Alumni Hall 421
121 St. Joseph St.
Toronto, ON
Canada M5S  1J4
tel  416-926-1300, ext. 3316
fax 416-926-2076



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From donna.orwin at UTORONTO.CA  Sat Jun 28 14:40:38 2014
From: donna.orwin at UTORONTO.CA (Donna Orwin)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 14:40:38 +0000
Subject: Alexander Sodiqov
Message-ID: <SAT.28.JUN.2014.144038.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear Colleagues,

As a follow-up to my email of yesterday, I direct you to the statement of concern by ASEEES where you can sign a petition calling for Alexander Sodiqov's release.  The url is http://aseees.org/advocacy/statement-concern-sodiqov

Best to all,

Donna Orwin

________________________________________
Donna Tussing Orwin, Professor and Chair
Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures
University of Toronto
President, Tolstoy Society
Alumni Hall 421
121 St. Joseph St.
Toronto, ON
Canada M5S  1J4
tel  416-926-1300, ext. 3316
fax 416-926-2076



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From oksana.rosenblum at GMAIL.COM  Sun Jun 29 04:00:42 2014
From: oksana.rosenblum at GMAIL.COM (Oksana Rosenblum)
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 2014 23:00:42 -0500
Subject: Russian Avant-Garde and the "body"
Message-ID: <SAT.28.JUN.2014.230042.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGERs,

Can anyone suggest any books/articles that look at how constructivism/futurism and more broadly, Russian avant garde transform human body? I am specifically interested in children's book illustration (people like El Lissitzky, Ber Ryback)  but not necessarily. 

Thank you!

Oksana Rosenblum
COJECO Blueprint Fellow 2013-2014

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From deblasia at DICKINSON.EDU  Sun Jun 29 19:48:56 2014
From: deblasia at DICKINSON.EDU (DeBlasio, Alyssa)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 19:48:56 +0000
Subject: AATSEEL panelist: New Genres in Russian Cinema
Message-ID: <SUN.29.JUN.2014.194856.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear colleagues,

We are seeking a third presenter for the 2015 AATSEEL conference (Vancouver) on the topic of "New genres in Russian cinema." We have one paper on remakes of Soviet classics and a second on environmental disaster/apocalypse films. Please contact off list with a title and abstract at <deblasia at dickinson.edu> before July 1.

Alyssa
_______________
Alyssa DeBlasio
Assistant Professor of Russian
Dickinson College
PO Box 1773
Carlisle, PA 17013
(717) 245-1766




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From danielbrooks at BERKELEY.EDU  Sun Jun 29 20:09:51 2014
From: danielbrooks at BERKELEY.EDU (Daniel Brooks)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 15:09:51 -0500
Subject: AATSEEL panel on Soviet/post-Soviet women authors
Message-ID: <SUN.29.JUN.2014.150951.0500.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers,

Seeking additional paper(s) for a 2015 AATSEEL panel on twentieth-century Russian women authors. We would like to orient the panel around the potential themes of female Soviet subjectivity, representations of the female body, Soviet and/or post-Soviet history, the relevance of feminist and queer theory to twentieth-century Russian literature, etc.

We currently have one paper on bodily representation in Lydia Chukovskaya's 'Sofia Petrovna' and one on translating post-Soviet prose by women authors.

If interested, please respond off-list at danielbrooks at berkeley.edu

Thank you kindly!

Daniel A. Brooks
PhD Candidate
Dept. of Slavic Languages & Literatures
UC-Berkeley

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From clucey at WISC.EDU  Sun Jun 29 21:22:21 2014
From: clucey at WISC.EDU (Colleen Lucey)
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 2014 17:22:21 -0400
Subject: AATSEEL panel on portrayal of women in Russian visual and print
 culture
In-Reply-To: <759097a21bd47.53b08371@wiscmail.wisc.edu>
Message-ID: <SUN.29.JUN.2014.172221.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear colleagues, 

We are seeking a chair and a discussant for the 2015 AATSEEL conference (Vancouver) on the topic of "Women, Performance, and Sexuality in Russian Culture." One paper examines the depiction of matchmaking rituals in print and visual culture from 1860-1890. The second presentation is on the portrayal of virginity in satirical journals in fin de siècle Russia. The final paper covers the life and work of Nataliia Medvedeva. Although the papers span a broad time frame, they are united by a common investigation into the interconnectedness between sexuality, performance, and commodification. 

If interested, please contact off list at clucey at wisc.edu before July 1.

Sincerely,

Colleen Lucey
PhD Candidate
Department of Slavic Languages and Literature
University of Wisconsin-Madison

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From madeofwords at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 30 10:08:02 2014
From: madeofwords at GMAIL.COM (melanie moore)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:08:02 +0100
Subject: English translation of Pushkin verse
Message-ID: <MON.30.JUN.2014.110802.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGers,

The book I am translating at the moment includes a quotation from Pushkin's
poem "Памятник". I wonder whether anyone knows of a recognized English
translation. My Internet searches haven't been very helpful.

The lines I'm looking for are: «И долго буду тем любезен я народу... И друг
степей калмык».

With thanks,
Melanie (Moore)

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From kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM  Mon Jun 30 10:50:57 2014
From: kcf19 at DIAL.PIPEX.COM (Robert Chandler)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 11:50:57 +0100
Subject: PEN blogs about translation - from Russian, Spanish, French, etc
Message-ID: <MON.30.JUN.2014.115057.0100.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear all,

PEN have recently posted this article by me about translating collaboratively.  This link will also take you to two earlier blogs, both excellent, by Ros Schwartz and Edith Grossman: 

http://worldbookshelf.englishpen.org/Writers-in-Translation-blog?offset=0

All the best,

Robert

Robert Chandler, 42 Milson Road, London, W14 OLD

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From zimberg.alexis at GMAIL.COM  Mon Jun 30 14:17:32 2014
From: zimberg.alexis at GMAIL.COM (Alexis Zimberg)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 10:17:32 -0400
Subject: Americorps VISTA Holocaust Survivor Position in Detroit
Message-ID: <MON.30.JUN.2014.101732.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Dear SEELANGS community,

I want to share an opportunity (with a monthly stipend and educational
credits) in the Detroit area for someone interested in working with
Holocaust survivors.

Jewish Family Service seeks to host an individual who will help the
organization assess the needs of Holocaust Survivors in the Detroit
community and plan future services for them (
http://www.ajfca.org/read-more-news/content/6385). This is a 1 year
position. More details about the position are available at this link:
http://jfsdetroit.org/about-us/employment-opportunities/ More information
about the VISTA program in general is available here:
http://www.nationalservice.gov/programs/americorps/americorps-programs/americorps-vista/americorps-vista-faqs


If you or your students have questions or are interested, please email me
directly at amz33 at Georgetown.edu.

Kindly,
Alexis Zimberg

-- 


*Alexis Zimberg *Director
*Democratic Transitions and Media Analysis*[image: Picture]
Info at PostSovietGraffiti.com
ww <http://www.dazeddigital.com/>.PostSovietGraffiti.com
<https://www.facebook.com/PostSovietGraffiti?ref=hl>
<http://twitter.com/postsovietgraf>

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From jpf3 at UCHICAGO.EDU  Mon Jun 30 14:50:43 2014
From: jpf3 at UCHICAGO.EDU (June P. Farris)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 14:50:43 +0000
Subject: Exegi Monumentum
Message-ID: <MON.30.JUN.2014.145043.0000.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Here’s one translation: http://poemsintranslation.blogspot.com/2013/10/pushkin-exegi-monumentum-from-russian.html


Tidings of me shall spread through all the realm of Rus
And every tribe in Her shall name me as they speak:
The haughty western Pole, the east's untamed Tungus,
North Finns and the south steppe's Kalmyk.

And long shall I a man dear to the people be
For how my kindling lyre bid kindly feelings grow.
For in my tyrant age I sang of liberty,
And mercy to the men laid low.


Here are several other translations: https://turcanin.wordpress.com/2012/02/16/exegi-monumentum-english/

And another site for the Deutsch translation: http://www.albionmich.com/inspiration/pushpoems2.html#exe


It is also included in English translation in the following:


·         The Portable Nineteenth-Century Russian Reader. Ed. by George Gibion. NY: Penguin, 1993.



·         After Pushkin: Versions of the Poems of Alexander Sergeevich Pushkin by Contemporary Poets. (p. 94, Elaine Feinstein)
News of me then will cross the whole of Russia
And every tribe there will have heard my name
The Slavs, the Finns, and those in the wild Tungus,
The Kalmucks on the plain

And they will all love me, because my songs
Evoked some kindness in a cruel age,
Since I once begged for mercy to assuage
The wrongs of the downfallen


·         The Poems, Prose and Plays of Alexander Pushkin (p. 88, tr. by Babette Deutsch) “Unto Myself I Reared a Monument”

June Farris

________________________________________________________________________
June Pachuta Farris
Bibliographer for Slavic, E. European & Eurasian Studies
Bibliographer for General Linguistics
University of Chicago Library
Room 263 Regenstein Library
University of Chicago
1100 E. 57th Street
Chicago, IL  60637
1-773-702-8456 (phone)
1-773-702-6623 (fax)
Jpf3 at uchicago.edu<mailto:Jpf3 at uchicago.edu>

From: SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list [mailto:SEELANGS at listserv.ua.edu] On Behalf Of melanie moore
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2014 5:08 AM
To: SEELANGS at listserv.ua.edu
Subject: [SEELANGS] English translation of Pushkin verse

Dear SEELANGers,

The book I am translating at the moment includes a quotation from Pushkin's poem "Памятник". I wonder whether anyone knows of a recognized English translation. My Internet searches haven't been very helpful.

The lines I'm looking for are: «И долго буду тем любезен я народу... И друг степей калмык».

With thanks,
Melanie (Moore)


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From extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU  Mon Jun 30 19:24:40 2014
From: extraclass at LEARNRUSSIAN.RU (Stanislav Chernyshov)
Date: Mon, 30 Jun 2014 23:24:40 +0400
Subject: Fwd: Re: [SEELANGS] Russian Avant-Garde and the "body"
Message-ID: <MON.30.JUN.2014.232440.0400.SEELANGS@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>

Тема: Re: [SEELANGS] Russian Avant-Garde and the "body"
Дата: 2014-06-29 19:27
От: extraclass at learnrussian.ru
Кому: "SEELANGS: Slavic & East European Languages and Literatures list" 
<SEELANGS at listserv.ua.edu>


Dear Oksana,

As a student I researched imagery in Russian Avant-Garde poetry, and a 
part of it was about "urbanist" metaphors (in Mayakovsky, Shershenevicv 
and others) representing city landscape through human body images, just 
like the world was understood in some archaic mythological traditions. 
The results were published by St. Petersburg State university. I think I 
can find some articles I published back then if you are interested.

Stanislav Chernyshov

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