From r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au Wed Sep 20 05:37:05 2000 From: r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au (R. Rankin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:37:05 +1000 Subject: Dhegiha 1sg 'lying' positional Message-ID: I have finally been able to fill in the 1sg of the paradigm of the 'lying' positional verb, the 3rd person of which is the familiar /khe/. Dorsey lists /miNkhe/ as the first sg. of both 'be sitting' and 'be lying'. I finally ran across the latter usage in Dorsey 1890 p. 620:17. az^aN miNkhedi 'I lie by me who lie' This is either an example of the 1sg of /khe/ or an arbitrary use of 1sg of 'sit'. Since JOD has the same form as part of the lying paradigm in Quapaw and Osage, I assume it is genuine in Omaha. The 2nd person in Quapaw and Osage is a reflex of */z^aN-khe/ but I have yet to locate it in Omaha or Ponca. Bob -- Robert L. Rankin, Visiting Fellow Research Center for Linguistic Typology Institute for Advanced Study La Trobe University Bundoora, VIC 3083 Australia Office: (+61 03) 9467-8087 Home: (+61 03) 9499-2393 Admin: (+61 03) 9467-3128 Fax: (+61 03) 9467-3053 From r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au Fri Sep 22 04:24:18 2000 From: r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au (R. Rankin) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:24:18 +1000 Subject: Dhegiha -akha+LOC Message-ID: In searching for the various locative classifiers I've run across any number of instances of -akha, which we are accustomed to analyzing as the agentive subject marker, used with the locatives -di and -tta 'at'. The forms are -akha'di and -akha'tta 'at the'. -Akhadi is not just a casual contraction of -akha and edi 'there', since -akhadi can occur immediately preceding 'there' -- -akhadi edi. It is very hard to reconcile the locative use of -akha with the notion of agent or subject in the constructions where it is found. Plural -amadi and -amatta are also common, but the possible analyses there are more numerous, as you might expect with the additional meanings -ama has. Anyone interested in trying to home in on the precise meaning/function of -akha as an article will want to look at these. I can provide page/line numbers in Dorsey (1890) if anyone is interested. -- Robert L. Rankin, Visiting Fellow Research Center for Linguistic Typology Institute for Advanced Study La Trobe University Bundoora, VIC 3083 Australia Office: (+61 03) 9467-8087 Home: (+61 03) 9499-2393 Admin: (+61 03) 9467-3128 Fax: (+61 03) 9467-3053 From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Fri Sep 22 17:20:02 2000 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:20:02 -0600 Subject: Dhegiha -akha+LOC In-Reply-To: <39CADEF1.47B673FD@latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, R. Rankin wrote: > In searching for the various locative classifiers I've run across any > number of instances of -akha, which we are accustomed to analyzing as > the agentive subject marker, used with the locatives -di and -tta 'at'. > The forms are -akha'di and -akha'tta 'at the'. ... > Plural -amadi and -amatta are also common, ... I've mentioned these, actually, in the past, and there was some discussion, if me saying "I wonder what these are?" counts as discussion, at the two Dhegiha meetings in Lincoln and Anadarko. At the second meeting I think I was able to observe that in several cases the reference was plainly "center stage" or proximate. I haven't pursued this yet. JEK From are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu Fri Sep 22 17:48:34 2000 From: are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu (Ardis R Eschenberg) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:48:34 -0400 Subject: Dhegiha -akha+LOC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've looked at these constructions in 10 stories at this point & SO FAR it does look like proximate (in the sense of center stage, as per Regina conference), but I'll wait and check out Dr. Rankin's list of entries first. -Ardis PS I finally have regular web access So I'll send you that CLS Paper this weekend, John. On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Koontz John E wrote: > On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, R. Rankin wrote: > > In searching for the various locative classifiers I've run across any > > number of instances of -akha, which we are accustomed to analyzing as > > the agentive subject marker, used with the locatives -di and -tta 'at'. > > The forms are -akha'di and -akha'tta 'at the'. ... > > > Plural -amadi and -amatta are also common, ... > > I've mentioned these, actually, in the past, and there was some > discussion, if me saying "I wonder what these are?" counts as discussion, > at the two Dhegiha meetings in Lincoln and Anadarko. At the second > meeting I think I was able to observe that in several cases the reference > was plainly "center stage" or proximate. I haven't pursued this yet. > > JEK > > > From r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au Mon Sep 25 04:36:10 2000 From: r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au (R. Rankin) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:36:10 +1000 Subject: Dorsey -akhadi, -amadi, etc. refs. Message-ID: Since there is some interest in these locative uses of -akha/-ama I'll send along the page.line refs. from Dorsey 1890 (CNAE VI). Those from Dorsey's "letters" publication are so marked. These are all taken from the Cesnalps computer version. The -akha's are all legit. The -ama's are open to interpretation in some instances. -ama marks pl. agents (proximates, subjects, whatever) but also is difficult to distinguish from pl. moving nouns and the noun for 'other (side)', accented a'ma, in a few cases. In most instances the objects of the locative construction are clearly stationary though (altho the subj. of the sentence may be moving toward them). AKHA-DI 199.18 311.7 329.2 471.7 514.1 (several others in same story) 613.6 616.1 AKHA-TTA 236.4 378.11 AMA-DI 248.11 378.14 399.2 435.2 493.8-9 587.2 679.1 696.5 705.3 705.5 letters 26.5 95.3 AMA-TTA JOD (1890) 110.8 254.2 372.2 380.6 679.16 There were quite a few more for -ama-(LOC) but I had enough examples. It is unclear to me that all these are "center stage". Are we able to distinguish between (1) proximate, (2) topic and (3) focus in this grammar? Enjoy. Bob -- Robert L. Rankin, Visiting Fellow Research Center for Linguistic Typology Institute for Advanced Study La Trobe University Bundoora, VIC 3083 Australia Office: (+61 03) 9467-8087 Home: (+61 03) 9499-2393 Admin: (+61 03) 9467-3128 Fax: (+61 03) 9467-3053 From Rgraczyk at aol.com Mon Sep 25 20:06:55 2000 From: Rgraczyk at aol.com (Rgraczyk at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:06:55 EDT Subject: Dhegiha 1sg 'lying' positional Message-ID: In Crow the 'lying' and 'sitting' positionals have partially merged, with distinct forms only in the 3rd singular: 1sg baawachi' 1pl baka'au 2 da'awachi 2 daka'au 3 baachi' 'lying'/daachi' 'sitting' 3 ka'au Randy From r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au Wed Sep 20 05:37:05 2000 From: r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au (R. Rankin) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:37:05 +1000 Subject: Dhegiha 1sg 'lying' positional Message-ID: I have finally been able to fill in the 1sg of the paradigm of the 'lying' positional verb, the 3rd person of which is the familiar /khe/. Dorsey lists /miNkhe/ as the first sg. of both 'be sitting' and 'be lying'. I finally ran across the latter usage in Dorsey 1890 p. 620:17. az^aN miNkhedi 'I lie by me who lie' This is either an example of the 1sg of /khe/ or an arbitrary use of 1sg of 'sit'. Since JOD has the same form as part of the lying paradigm in Quapaw and Osage, I assume it is genuine in Omaha. The 2nd person in Quapaw and Osage is a reflex of */z^aN-khe/ but I have yet to locate it in Omaha or Ponca. Bob -- Robert L. Rankin, Visiting Fellow Research Center for Linguistic Typology Institute for Advanced Study La Trobe University Bundoora, VIC 3083 Australia Office: (+61 03) 9467-8087 Home: (+61 03) 9499-2393 Admin: (+61 03) 9467-3128 Fax: (+61 03) 9467-3053 From r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au Fri Sep 22 04:24:18 2000 From: r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au (R. Rankin) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 14:24:18 +1000 Subject: Dhegiha -akha+LOC Message-ID: In searching for the various locative classifiers I've run across any number of instances of -akha, which we are accustomed to analyzing as the agentive subject marker, used with the locatives -di and -tta 'at'. The forms are -akha'di and -akha'tta 'at the'. -Akhadi is not just a casual contraction of -akha and edi 'there', since -akhadi can occur immediately preceding 'there' -- -akhadi edi. It is very hard to reconcile the locative use of -akha with the notion of agent or subject in the constructions where it is found. Plural -amadi and -amatta are also common, but the possible analyses there are more numerous, as you might expect with the additional meanings -ama has. Anyone interested in trying to home in on the precise meaning/function of -akha as an article will want to look at these. I can provide page/line numbers in Dorsey (1890) if anyone is interested. -- Robert L. Rankin, Visiting Fellow Research Center for Linguistic Typology Institute for Advanced Study La Trobe University Bundoora, VIC 3083 Australia Office: (+61 03) 9467-8087 Home: (+61 03) 9499-2393 Admin: (+61 03) 9467-3128 Fax: (+61 03) 9467-3053 From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Fri Sep 22 17:20:02 2000 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 11:20:02 -0600 Subject: Dhegiha -akha+LOC In-Reply-To: <39CADEF1.47B673FD@latrobe.edu.au> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, R. Rankin wrote: > In searching for the various locative classifiers I've run across any > number of instances of -akha, which we are accustomed to analyzing as > the agentive subject marker, used with the locatives -di and -tta 'at'. > The forms are -akha'di and -akha'tta 'at the'. ... > Plural -amadi and -amatta are also common, ... I've mentioned these, actually, in the past, and there was some discussion, if me saying "I wonder what these are?" counts as discussion, at the two Dhegiha meetings in Lincoln and Anadarko. At the second meeting I think I was able to observe that in several cases the reference was plainly "center stage" or proximate. I haven't pursued this yet. JEK From are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu Fri Sep 22 17:48:34 2000 From: are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu (Ardis R Eschenberg) Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2000 13:48:34 -0400 Subject: Dhegiha -akha+LOC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've looked at these constructions in 10 stories at this point & SO FAR it does look like proximate (in the sense of center stage, as per Regina conference), but I'll wait and check out Dr. Rankin's list of entries first. -Ardis PS I finally have regular web access So I'll send you that CLS Paper this weekend, John. On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Koontz John E wrote: > On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, R. Rankin wrote: > > In searching for the various locative classifiers I've run across any > > number of instances of -akha, which we are accustomed to analyzing as > > the agentive subject marker, used with the locatives -di and -tta 'at'. > > The forms are -akha'di and -akha'tta 'at the'. ... > > > Plural -amadi and -amatta are also common, ... > > I've mentioned these, actually, in the past, and there was some > discussion, if me saying "I wonder what these are?" counts as discussion, > at the two Dhegiha meetings in Lincoln and Anadarko. At the second > meeting I think I was able to observe that in several cases the reference > was plainly "center stage" or proximate. I haven't pursued this yet. > > JEK > > > From r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au Mon Sep 25 04:36:10 2000 From: r.rankin at latrobe.edu.au (R. Rankin) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 14:36:10 +1000 Subject: Dorsey -akhadi, -amadi, etc. refs. Message-ID: Since there is some interest in these locative uses of -akha/-ama I'll send along the page.line refs. from Dorsey 1890 (CNAE VI). Those from Dorsey's "letters" publication are so marked. These are all taken from the Cesnalps computer version. The -akha's are all legit. The -ama's are open to interpretation in some instances. -ama marks pl. agents (proximates, subjects, whatever) but also is difficult to distinguish from pl. moving nouns and the noun for 'other (side)', accented a'ma, in a few cases. In most instances the objects of the locative construction are clearly stationary though (altho the subj. of the sentence may be moving toward them). AKHA-DI 199.18 311.7 329.2 471.7 514.1 (several others in same story) 613.6 616.1 AKHA-TTA 236.4 378.11 AMA-DI 248.11 378.14 399.2 435.2 493.8-9 587.2 679.1 696.5 705.3 705.5 letters 26.5 95.3 AMA-TTA JOD (1890) 110.8 254.2 372.2 380.6 679.16 There were quite a few more for -ama-(LOC) but I had enough examples. It is unclear to me that all these are "center stage". Are we able to distinguish between (1) proximate, (2) topic and (3) focus in this grammar? Enjoy. Bob -- Robert L. Rankin, Visiting Fellow Research Center for Linguistic Typology Institute for Advanced Study La Trobe University Bundoora, VIC 3083 Australia Office: (+61 03) 9467-8087 Home: (+61 03) 9499-2393 Admin: (+61 03) 9467-3128 Fax: (+61 03) 9467-3053 From Rgraczyk at aol.com Mon Sep 25 20:06:55 2000 From: Rgraczyk at aol.com (Rgraczyk at aol.com) Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 16:06:55 EDT Subject: Dhegiha 1sg 'lying' positional Message-ID: In Crow the 'lying' and 'sitting' positionals have partially merged, with distinct forms only in the 3rd singular: 1sg baawachi' 1pl baka'au 2 da'awachi 2 daka'au 3 baachi' 'lying'/daachi' 'sitting' 3 ka'au Randy