From rankin at ku.edu Tue May 1 22:13:57 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:13:57 -0500 Subject: Attn: Dhegihanists. Message-ID: Hi, I have a question one or more of you might be able to help me with -- especially since there are no Kaw speakers I can consult with. In the Kaw (Kansa) migration story there is reference to a village named "maNdaxpaye" (accent on first syllable, secondary accent on -pa-). It is referred to as "the name of the village in Mo, at which resided the ancestors of the present Osages, Kansas, Omahas and Poncas." An Osage cognate of "maNtaxpadhe" is given. I have two questions about the village name. (1) What does it mean, and (2) have any of your consultants ever heard the name or any accounts/stories about it? If so, what do they say? The Omaha/Ponca cognate, if there is one, should be either *maNdaxpadhe or *maNnaxpadhe, depending on whether the d/n goes back to a dental stop or a "funny R". If it is the 'by extreme temperature' instrumental, it would be -na-, otherwise probably -da-. The KS and OS cognates don't tell us which. As for meaning, I'm not entirely sure where or how to segment the word. In Kansa, if you segment it "maN-" and then "da:xpaye", the latter part would be the verb 'to burn down' (like a house or lodge on fire). The rest, "maN-", would have to be something else, presumably the noun that was burned down. MaN may be the root for 'land'. On the other hand, it might be "maNda" plus "xpaye" which might possibly refer to a 'lost maNda', whatever that might be. In Kansa "maNda" is a 'prohibitive' and generally means just "Don't do __________." So that wouldn't seem to fit. So far I like the 'burn down' scenario better, but I can't tell if that's what it is without help from a speaker of one of the languages or an Omaha/Ponca cognate. This is the most specific reference to the 4 tribes living together after the split with the Quapaws that I can locate in the Dorsey collections. I'd like to be able to figure it out. Any help will be much appreciated. Best, Bob From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 03:06:31 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:06:31 -0600 Subject: Attn: Dhegihanists. In-Reply-To: <5823BD992D67D3119F630008C7CF50FC0A4414E4@skylark.mail.ukans.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > In the Kaw (Kansa) migration story there is reference to a village > named "maNdaxpaye" (accent on first syllable, secondary accent on > -pa-). It is referred to as "the name of the village in Mo, at which > resided the ancestors of the present Osages, Kansas, Omahas and > Poncas." An Osage cognate of "maNtaxpadhe" is given. > > I have two questions about the village name. (1) What does it mean, and (2) > have any of your consultants ever heard the name or any accounts/stories > about it? If so, what do they say? With the stress and a vowel in the second syllable, I can't say that I have any ideas. The most likely possibilities are: maN'de 'bow' (wrong vowel) maNde' 'boat' (wrong vowel) maN'the 'under, within' (wrong consonant and vowel) + xpadhe 'to discard, drop; lose; be lost' (some of these require dative inflection) The vowel in the second syllable is the problem. If the a is part of xpadhe, axpadhe, then one could get e + a => a in a contraction, cf. OP maNd ugdhiN 'sit in a boat', but in Kaw the underlying d would still become j^ before the underlying e, right? Another mechanism for changing e to a would involve ablaut, which definitely occurs with maN'the before postposiitons in OP, cf., maN'tha=tta, maN'tha=di, maNtha=ha, etc., but never, so far as I know, with nouns in compoundings like verb incorporation. I also couldn't find any trace of (?)naxpadhe 'lose spontaneously or by heat', etc. Having eliminated everything on morphological ground I might venture, however, that maNde'-xpadhe 'they abandoned the boats' has a certain amount of logical consistency with the story implied. JEK From ioway at earthlink.net Wed May 2 12:49:43 2001 From: ioway at earthlink.net (Lance Foster) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 06:49:43 -0600 Subject: Verb "To swim" Message-ID: > I'm looking at some comparisons/usage of the verb "to swim". In his dictionary JGT has: to swim: nyiwan; nyinwan; hira to bathe: pidha; pitha; hira; pira hira/pira "to take a bath" Any thoughts on usages distinctions in comparison with other Siouan languages? -- Lance Michael Foster Email: ioway at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~ioway ------------------------- Native Nations Press, 1542 Calle Angelina, Santa Fe, NM 87501 Phone: 505-438-2945 info at nativenations.com ------------------------- NativeNations.Com - Native Nations Press (http://www.nativenations.com) Baxoje Ukich'e: The Ioway Nation (http://www.ioway.org) From rankin at ku.edu Wed May 2 15:44:39 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:44:39 -0500 Subject: Attn: Dhegihanists. Message-ID: > With the stress and a vowel in the second syllable, I can't say that I have any ideas. That's my problem too. I've been favoring "daxpaye" 'to fall from burning' or 'to lose by burning'. I suppose "maN'-" could be an incorporated/contracted form of "maNhe" or "maNz^aN" 'earth/land'. The English term "scorched earth" comes to mind. > xpadhe, axpadhe, then one could get e + a => a in a > contraction, cf. OP maNd ugdhiN 'sit in a boat', but in Kaw the underlying d would still become j^ before the underlying e, right? Mmmm, probably not. Palatalization usually only remains throughout the paradigm in the case of the aspirate, /th/ > /ch/. So you do get yache' 'chew' and yachabe 'chew 3sg/pl' rather than the expected *yathabe. But with yuje 'taste, dip' the 3rd person is yudabe. Bob From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 18:49:46 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 12:49:46 -0600 Subject: Attn: Dhegihanists. In-Reply-To: <5823BD992D67D3119F630008C7CF50FC0A4414EA@skylark.mail.ukans.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > > contraction, cf. OP maNd ugdhiN 'sit in a boat', but in Kaw the underlying > > d would still become j^ before the underlying e, right? > > Mmmm, probably not. Palatalization usually only remains throughout the > paradigm in the case of the aspirate, /th/ > /ch/. So you do get yache' > 'chew' and yachabe 'chew 3sg/pl' rather than the expected *yathabe. But with > yuje 'taste, dip' the 3rd person is yudabe. I was thinking of something like maNj^(e) *axpaye, where the (e) is (hypothetically) lost when the two words are contracted. Unfortunately OP affrication is conditioned by affect, not environment, but isn't there a famous (well, among comparative Siouanists) case in Chiwere of a similar contraction leaving a c^(h) before a? The only case I can remember offhand is something like thiN for expected c^hiN, where the underlying form is th(a)=iN. I think the gloss is 'visible'. The language may be IO. If it's Ks, then it should be tt(a=)iN, of course. OP has ttaN=(dh)iN. From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 19:07:55 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:07:55 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: I've been giving some thought to keying popular orthographies, by which I really mean things like the current OP popular systems, which rely on raised n and h to indicate nasality and aspiration, plus various in-line digraphs to represent other things like gh or th (dh). The problem with raised n and h is that they are not really part of the Windows ANSI fonts, so they can only be achived in word processors, by using the superscript font modification. You can't use them in regular Windows text files or email, etc. But if you do restrict yourself to such contexts, e.g., MS Word for Office 2000, how can you easily key them in? One scheme that can be tried in Word is the autocorrection facility. This is intended to handle cases like replacing teh with the. If you type like me then when you user Word you hear a constant series of little blips as this sort of correction occurs. Half the time, of course, it's busily correcting your OP into English, which is rather a nuisance. You can also use this facility to insert boilerplate text into your document, like legal disclaimers. It occurred to me that I could set this up to replace aN with a, since you can include "formatted text" in your replacement. To do this, you type the combination you want, like a, highlight it, and then click tools > autocorrection > autocorrection and add aN to the list of things to replace. The details here vary a bit with the character combinations, but you end up with a correction rule that replaces aN with a. There are two problems with this bright idea. One is that it seems the replacements are done only on words, not sub-words, so you have to type a space and then backspace to invoke the substitution. Also, It appears that thanks to some really clever MS programming, not only is iN replaced with i, but also In at the start of a sentence. Probably also in in the middle of a sentence, though I haven't tested that far yet. I was trying to do this and then use it immediately. Anyone have any (better, more workable) bright ideas? It is a major pain to insert the superscripting with the usual menu-based operations, as you have to turn it off afterwards, too. Even if you didn't have to, you'd still prefer to avoid the series of clicks involved. My other solution is to create new fonts with raised n and h included, and define aN as a in the associated keyboard definition. This would work in any application that allows use of arbitrary Windows fonts, but having to use a non-standard font is a problem in itself. JEK From ccpp at cetlink.net Wed May 2 19:24:33 2001 From: ccpp at cetlink.net (Language) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:24:33 -0400 Subject: Verb "To swim" Message-ID: In Catawba, we have the phrase "aN:ra':na:rire:" which means "we are going swimming". I believe "aN:ra:" is the verb root for "swim". "ya:sicihe':" (c represents c-hachek) means "I bathe in a spring" "yaN:ci" (spring), "ya'ye" (water), and "yaN:ca:" (water joint) relate to the previous phrase, perhaps to the first one as well. "isuNre:" is translated as "I bathe myself in the river"; the word for river is "iswaN" I'm not sure this will help since Catawba is the most aberrant of the Siouan languages. Maybe Dr. Rudes has some more insight on this. Claudia Y. Heinemann-Priest Catawba Cultural Preservation Project Rock Hill, South Carolina ccpp at cetlink.net www.ccppcrafts.com -----Original Message----- From: Lance Foster [SMTP:ioway at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 8:50 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Verb "To swim" I'm looking at some comparisons/usage of the verb "to swim". In his dictionary JGT has: to swim: nyiwan; nyinwan; hira to bathe: pidha; pitha; hira; pira hira/pira "to take a bath" Any thoughts on usages distinctions in comparison with other Siouan languages? -- Lance Michael Foster Email: ioway at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~ioway ------------------------- Native Nations Press, 1542 Calle Angelina, Santa Fe, NM 87501 Phone: 505-438-2945 info at nativenations.com ------------------------- NativeNations.Com - Native Nations Press (http://www.nativenations.com) Baxoje Ukich'e: The Ioway Nation (http://www.ioway.org) From ccpp at cetlink.net Wed May 2 20:03:44 2001 From: ccpp at cetlink.net (Language) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 16:03:44 -0400 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: In MSWord 97 and higher, we use the "Insert" menu, "Symbol..." and in there are the vowels "a e i u" with "little right hooks" underneath , which is what we used for the nasal vowels even before Microsoft caught up. The "c-hachek" or "c-wedge" (as we like to call it) is also in there. Unfortunately this doesn't work for the MS e-mail program Outlook or any e-mail program for that matter so we use "Vowel+N" for nasals. I can receive e-mails written in German and French and not lose any of the umlauts, or accents but the software/computer industry is still backwards linguistically. Claudia Y. Heinemann-Priest Catawba Cultural Preservation Project Rock Hill, South Carolina ccpp at cetlink.net www.ccppcrafts.com -----Original Message----- From: Koontz John E [SMTP:John.Koontz at colorado.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 3:08 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word I've been giving some thought to keying popular orthographies, by which I really mean things like the current OP popular systems, which rely on raised n and h to indicate nasality and aspiration, plus various in-line digraphs to represent other things like gh or th (dh). The problem with raised n and h is that they are not really part of the Windows ANSI fonts, so they can only be achived in word processors, by using the superscript font modification. You can't use them in regular Windows text files or email, etc. But if you do restrict yourself to such contexts, e.g., MS Word for Office 2000, how can you easily key them in? One scheme that can be tried in Word is the autocorrection facility. This is intended to handle cases like replacing teh with the. If you type like me then when you user Word you hear a constant series of little blips as this sort of correction occurs. Half the time, of course, it's busily correcting your OP into English, which is rather a nuisance. You can also use this facility to insert boilerplate text into your document, like legal disclaimers. It occurred to me that I could set this up to replace aN with a, since you can include "formatted text" in your replacement. To do this, you type the combination you want, like a, highlight it, and then click tools > autocorrection > autocorrection and add aN to the list of things to replace. The details here vary a bit with the character combinations, but you end up with a correction rule that replaces aN with a. There are two problems with this bright idea. One is that it seems the replacements are done only on words, not sub-words, so you have to type a space and then backspace to invoke the substitution. Also, It appears that thanks to some really clever MS programming, not only is iN replaced with i, but also In at the start of a sentence. Probably also in in the middle of a sentence, though I haven't tested that far yet. I was trying to do this and then use it immediately. Anyone have any (better, more workable) bright ideas? It is a major pain to insert the superscripting with the usual menu-based operations, as you have to turn it off afterwards, too. Even if you didn't have to, you'd still prefer to avoid the series of clicks involved. My other solution is to create new fonts with raised n and h included, and define aN as a in the associated keyboard definition. This would work in any application that allows use of arbitrary Windows fonts, but having to use a non-standard font is a problem in itself. JEK From ahartley at d.umn.edu Wed May 2 20:57:24 2001 From: ahartley at d.umn.edu (Alan H. Hartley) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:57:24 -0500 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: > raised n and h to indicate nasality and aspiration Hope about the tilde for nasalization? Alan From munro at ucla.edu Wed May 2 21:05:02 2001 From: munro at ucla.edu (Pamela Munro) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 14:05:02 -0700 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: The problem with the tilde of course is that the normal character set provides it only on a and o. Grr. So to get this on other vowels, such as i and u, you have to have a special font. Pam "Alan H. Hartley" wrote: > > > raised n and h to indicate nasality and aspiration > > Hope about the tilde for nasalization? > > Alan From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 21:27:43 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:27:43 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <01C0D321.7771C4A0@LANGUAGE> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Language wrote: > In MSWord 97 and higher, we use the "Insert" menu, "Symbol..." and in > there are the vowels "a e i u" with "little right hooks" > underneath , which is what we used for the nasal vowels even before > Microsoft caught up. The "c-hachek" or "c-wedge" (as we like to call > it) is also in there. Unfortunately this doesn't work for the MS > e-mail program Outlook or any e-mail program for that matter so we use > "Vowel+N" for nasals. I can receive e-mails written in German and > French and not lose any of the umlauts, or accents but the > software/computer industry is still backwards linguistically. I prefer a less menu-oriented approach to inserting special characters if I can manage it, since you need two or three a word in OP. SIL (www.sil.org) distributes the TavulteSoft KeyMap program, which can be used to redefine keyboards to create various kinds of keystroke combinations that will insert characters not ordinarily accessible from the keyboard. For example, I like alt-a + V, where V is the vowel letter, capitalized or not, as a way to enter nasal vowels. This program works in all Windows programs. You do have to switch to any font you require for special characters. My recollection is that the basic Windows ABSI fonts is rather chinzy with what vowels it will combine with nasal-hook, so I suspect you are using a special font. Maybe Andy Anderson's? The downside of using KeyMap is that it is a bit of a black art, learning to write the keyboard definitions. I did write some for use with the Standard Siouan fonts. Also, Bob Rankin has had problems using the previous version (2?) with Australian versions of Windows, if I recall the combination of circumstances. Furthermore the newest version didn't like my older keyboard definitions. On the other hand, I think this is the most generic way to go as it works across applications. I don't recall if can access Word macro facilities to generate superscript characters, but it may be able to. However, of course, these won't work in Outlook, etc. If you want a menu-based approach that works in different applications, try the Windows Character Map accessory. It's not quite as nice as the Word symbol insertion tool. JEK From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 21:33:33 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:33:33 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <3AF074B4.7759C4B8@d.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Alan H. Hartley wrote: > > raised n and h to indicate nasality and aspiration > > How about the tilde for nasalization? Tildes are not very popular with Siouanists, because when combined over a vowel with an acute accent they are awkward looking. In fact, all Americanists who need to combine accent or pitch marks with nasal vowels tend to avoid tilde for this reason, e.g., also Tanoanists and Athabascanists. A tilde under the vowel would work (or the accent there!), but I've not seen either approach. However, assuming you have a font which provides pre-composed vowel-tilde combinations, you could use the approach with autocorrection, such as it is, to map aN, etc., to a, etc. Or the insert symbol, character map, or KeyMap approaches would work with tilde, too. From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 21:42:44 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:42:44 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <3AF075DB.325E6DB7@ucla.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Pamela Munro wrote: > The problem with the tilde of course is that the normal character set > provides it only on a and o. Grr. So to get this on other vowels, such > as i and u, you have to have a special font. Windows ANSI has a similarly restrictive approach with ogonek (nasal hook). For some reason they only envisage it with the nasal vowels of Polish (a and e). One possible resource here is that MS provides a set of extended fonts with a lot more combinations of vowels and diacritics. These are supplements to the standard ones. Various MS software need them. Bookshelf, I think. Anyway, if you can get your mits on them they provide Times Roman, etc., compatible characters for quite a lot of new possibilities. Try going to the the Windows Update site and downloading Pan-European character support, maybe. I don't know if these are adequate to support Siouanist needs, but they are more extensive. The hitch with using these is that the extended characters are in a different font. So you can use them (only?) in software that lets you declare font choices on a character by character basis, like Word. In particular, this probably won't work in any linguistic database software or text editors. It might work in Outlook. Any fancy keyboard redefinition software would only be able to access these characters if it could switch fonts: insert font selection codes as well as character numbers. JEK From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 21:50:56 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:50:56 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <00225E3D.C21368@wscgate.wsc.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Catherine Rudin wrote: > Typing superscript letters isn't all that bad once you discover > you don't actually have to go into menus to do it... At least > in MS Word ctrl-shift-+ puts you in (and then out of) > superscript mode. It's a couple of extra keystrokes, but no > worse than having to backspace out all the spaces you'd have to > leave to use the autocorrect method. Ardis E. put me onto > this, and the raised n and h have been much less of a pain > since then. That sounds like it would help alot. Thank you Catherine (and Ardis)! It's not much worse than alt-a for accented, or following N for nasal, though the compound keystrokes (in all cases) are harder on the hands. ,V is another possible key combination, instead of VN, though sometimes you may want a comma up against a vowel, I guess. I was looking for something that keyed like NetSiouan. > Another possibility, of course, is to create a raised letter > once, by whatever means, and then copy it and paste in copies > of it wherever needed... I've used this approach. Type n or h, then fix the first one, then cut and paste the raised n or h over all the n's or h's that should be raised. Psychologically it's not unlike preparing the text with hammer and chisel on a piece of flat stone, but it beats the menu approach. > Catherine (aka the anti-techie) Rudin Catherine's middle initial is L, for Luddite. From mosind at yahoo.com Thu May 3 03:58:54 2001 From: mosind at yahoo.com (Constantine Xmelnitski) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 20:58:54 -0700 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: Talking about Win9x, MS-Word, KeyMap, and, KeyMan. In Win9x you cannot insert Unicode characters directly thru keyboard. You can select a language with its code page that will remap 256 characters to 65000 Unicode characters. KeyMap utility shows only first 256 characters of a font, even if the font has thousands of them. KeyMan does support Unicode starting from version 5.0. It makes sense to use it with Win2K or WinNT MS-Word 97 support Unicode thru Insert | Symbol and some shortcuts. It is possible to record a macro and assign any reasonable keystroke to it, as Ctrl-`-A. A macro for "a-ogonek" (char #261) reads: Selection.InsertSymbol CharacterNumber:=261, Unicode:=True Connie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ccpp at cetlink.net Thu May 3 15:12:30 2001 From: ccpp at cetlink.net (Language) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:12:30 -0400 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: We originally started out using the SIL fonts and they worked quite well originally until we changed them to Arial or Times New Roman, they just came out as squares but this was ten years ago and the SIL fonts are compatible with Microsoft now. The "Insert menu-Symbols-normal text" method allows you to assign symbols to the keyboard as well. However none of these work yet with e-mail programs. -----Original Message----- From: Koontz John E [SMTP:John.Koontz at colorado.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:28 PM To: 'siouan at lists.colorado.edu' Subject: RE: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word On Wed, 2 May 2001, Language wrote: > In MSWord 97 and higher, we use the "Insert" menu, "Symbol..." and in > there are the vowels "a e i u" with "little right hooks" > underneath , which is what we used for the nasal vowels even before > Microsoft caught up. The "c-hachek" or "c-wedge" (as we like to call > it) is also in there. Unfortunately this doesn't work for the MS > e-mail program Outlook or any e-mail program for that matter so we use > "Vowel+N" for nasals. I can receive e-mails written in German and > French and not lose any of the umlauts, or accents but the > software/computer industry is still backwards linguistically. I prefer a less menu-oriented approach to inserting special characters if I can manage it, since you need two or three a word in OP. SIL (www.sil.org) distributes the TavulteSoft KeyMap program, which can be used to redefine keyboards to create various kinds of keystroke combinations that will insert characters not ordinarily accessible from the keyboard. For example, I like alt-a + V, where V is the vowel letter, capitalized or not, as a way to enter nasal vowels. This program works in all Windows programs. You do have to switch to any font you require for special characters. My recollection is that the basic Windows ABSI fonts is rather chinzy with what vowels it will combine with nasal-hook, so I suspect you are using a special font. Maybe Andy Anderson's? The downside of using KeyMap is that it is a bit of a black art, learning to write the keyboard definitions. I did write some for use with the Standard Siouan fonts. Also, Bob Rankin has had problems using the previous version (2?) with Australian versions of Windows, if I recall the combination of circumstances. Furthermore the newest version didn't like my older keyboard definitions. On the other hand, I think this is the most generic way to go as it works across applications. I don't recall if can access Word macro facilities to generate superscript characters, but it may be able to. However, of course, these won't work in Outlook, etc. If you want a menu-based approach that works in different applications, try the Windows Character Map accessory. It's not quite as nice as the Word symbol insertion tool. JEK From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Thu May 3 17:41:43 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:41:43 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <01C0D3C1.FD40B8C0@LANGUAGE> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 May 2001, Language wrote: > We originally started out using the SIL fonts and they worked quite > well originally until we changed them to Arial or Times New Roman, > they just came out as squares but this was ten years ago and the SIL > fonts are compatible with Microsoft now. The "Insert > menu-Symbols-normal text" method allows you to assign symbols to the > keyboard as well. However none of these work yet with e-mail > programs. I'm not sure I followed the first part. I've used the SIL font generating tools for years - both editions of the HP printer fonts only for DOS (Premier and Legacy Fonts) and the first version for TrueType fonts for Windows (Encore Fonts). I believe there's a major update of Encore Fonts that I haven't used. They always worked for me but have never included tools for creating Arial or New Times fonts. Premier Fonts used Bitstream faces called Dutch and Swiss (Bitstream versions of Times and Helvetica), plus some others. Legacy Fonts and Encore Fonts use SIL creations called Doulos and Sophia (plus Manuscript, a non-proportional font). I think they claim that Doulos or more or less Times-like, but Sophia is not Helvetica-based. I forget what they say it is like - maybe Futura? The SIL faces look rather blobby in Windows but generally print acceptably. It's true that anything encoded for use in the DOS ASCII environment couldn't simply be ported to the Windows ANSI environment in most cases. The problem is that the upper range (128-255) is defined differently in the two environments and Windows, especially Word for Windows, has some conventions regarding the upper range that can be awkward. Things coming out as squares sounds like a mapping problem between DOS ASCII-based fonts and Windows ANSI-based fonts. You're quite right that the insert Symbols menu has a facility for defining keyboard shortcuts. I had never noticed this! Unfortunately it doesn't allow assigning multicharacter and/or styled text to shortcuts, so you can't generate a, or even . There is also an entry to the autocorrect facility here, but it looks like this version can't pick up multi-character highlighted sequences. As near as I can tell by experimenting, defining aN to be autocorrected to a causes AN, An, and aN to be mapped to a, with only an escaping unscathed. If you don't turn off automatic capitalization at the start of a sentence, some of the a's will be A's. I have no idea why An is treated with AN and aN. It does appear that the autocorrecting facility ignores case in the input, which explains a lot. But then why is an safe? From rankin at ku.edu Thu May 3 20:01:57 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 15:01:57 -0500 Subject: FW: siouan placenames Message-ID: I have a note from Bill bright who is editing a book on placenames. Can anyone help with this? I suspected it might be Chiwere. Bob -----Original Message----- From: william bright To: Rankin, Robert L Sent: 5/1/01 8:49 PM Subject: RE: siouan placenames hi bob; thanks for your message. there's a place in missouri called "neongwah", "niangua" or the like. ramsay's book on missouri placenames doesn't give any suggestion of a meaning. do you have any clue? thanks and all best; bill -- William Bright Professor Emeritus of Linguistics & Anthropology, UCLA Professor Adjoint of Linguistics, University of Colorado, Boulder Editor, Written Language and Literacy Editor, Native American Placenames of the United States 1625 Mariposa Avenue, Boulder, CO 80302 Tel. 303-444-4274 FAX 303-413-0017 Email william.bright at colorado.edu William Bright's website: http://www.ncidc.org/bright From are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu Thu May 3 21:46:07 2001 From: are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu (Ardis R Eschenberg) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:46:07 -0400 Subject: orthography Message-ID: RE: shortcuts to raised n/h Macs have a similar shortcut but the apple symbol key is involved (I think it is control+apple+plus or shift+apple+plus...) RE: tildas (tildes?) For OP it is nice to use the raised n/h instead of tildas as they are used in the popular orthography which is in use in the community. From are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu Thu May 3 21:54:14 2001 From: are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu (Ardis R Eschenberg) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:54:14 -0400 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <20010503035854.46083.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: BTW I just reread one of John's other notes... I don't use alt a for an accent. The shortcut is control + apostrophe (') and then the letter. It works for both upper and lower cases of all vowels in Word. (Hmm maybe this is what you meant by alt a? I can't get that to work...It inserts a table.) -Ardis Queen of Shortcuts Eschenberg IF only I could find the shortcut to a finished diss. Maybe control + stress or alt + end From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Thu May 3 22:54:00 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:54:00 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 May 2001, Ardis R Eschenberg wrote: > BTW I just reread one of John's other notes... > I don't use alt a for an accent. The shortcut is control + apostrophe (') > and then the letter. It works for both upper and lower cases of all > vowels in Word. OK - that would be the native method (sorry - I'm looking at Java at work), which is useful to know, and which works because the Windows ANSI character set is pretty complete with respect to combinations of acute, grave, and circumflex with the usual vowels. In fact, I usually put the nasal vowels in the grave slots, and the accented nasal vowels in the circumflex slots when setting up Siouan fonts. The alt-a scheme is supported in the KeyMan keyboard that comes with the Standard Siouan fonts. If KeyMan is installed, and this keyboard is loaded and active, alt-a + vowel will produce the appropriate accented vowel in any Windows application. If all these conditions pertain and, in addition, one of the Standard Siouan TrueType fonts is the current font, it still works, since the accented vowels are in the same place. In addition, though alt-n + vowel produces a nasal vowel (marked with the hook), and alt-n + alt-a + vowel produces and accented nasal vowel (acute accent and nasal hook). If a Standard Siouan fonts isn't active, you get a grave accented vowel or a circumflex accented vowel, depending, per the logic on substitution mentioned above - because the substitution hasn't been made. Just remember that the keyboard definition and the fonts are independent of each other. > If only I could find the shortcut to a finished diss. Maybe control + > stress or alt + end Alas, none exists, though reading the sections in your word processor manual on style sheets (or templates or whatever they're called) and on doing major manuscripts in general will help with some of the more infuriating formal issues. JEK From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Fri May 4 04:58:32 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 22:58:32 -0600 Subject: Verb "To swim" In-Reply-To: <3AF00266.77188DD9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Lance Foster wrote: > I'm looking at some comparisons/usage of the verb "to swim". > > In his dictionary JGT has: > > to swim: nyiwan; nyinwan; hira > to bathe: pidha; pitha; hira; pira > hira/pira "to take a bath" > > Any thoughts on usages distinctions in comparison with other Siouan > languages? I thought for once I'd look first and answer second. Omaha-Ponca has: hi=dha' (Pop Orth: hitha) 'to bathe' The second syllable accent seems to be anomalous, which may suggest interesting length issues. niN'=uwaN (Pop. Orth: niNuwoN) 'to swim' (Swetland), and niN=(w)aN (Dorsey) The w might be epenthetic or a reduction of the u. Both of these more or less closely resemble the IO forms, except the pi (= phi?) alternative, which may be influenced by phi 'good'. And, since knowing the stem is only a small part of the battle, I looked into the inflection of these. I believe hi=dha' is doubly inflected: ahi'=bdha, dhahi'=na, hi=dha'(=i), aNhi'=dha(=i), deduced from the following derivative's first upon third personal form, and consistent with the Osage pattern (in OP form) given by LaFlesche. (Osage has dhe 'to go' appended, too, so it is triply inflected.) A derivative is i'=hi=dha 'to bathe by means of', e.g., 'to bathe by means of the rocks used in a sweatbath'. This is idha'hi=bdha, i'dhahi=na, etc., cf. i'wihi=bdha 'I will bathe by means of you' addressed to the stones. Another derivative is hidha'=khidhe 'to cause to bathe'. And we might mention hi=dha'=i 'Saturday' or 'bath night', lit. 'they bathe'. Actually, the word for '(to take a) sweat bath' is iN=u'ppe, which looks like it might be 'to crawl into stone(s)'. The inflection seems to be iN=u'(w)appe, iN=u'dhappe, iN=u'ppe, iN=aN'waNppe, deduced from the third and first persons. The inflection of niN'=waN in Dorsey is obscure, as he provides only niN'=aNwaN 'we swam' in text. Unfortunately I can't check his slip file without a major expedition yet. So this could perhaps be: niN'=maN, niN'=z^aN, ..., or niN'=awaN, niN'=dhawaN, etc. It's also not clear if the -w- and/or -uw- are epenthetic w before aN or reflect u- 'in' or a stem waN or what. It's possible that both uwaN or u(w)aN and waN or aN are reflected, i.e., 'to swim in' and 'to swim'. What LaFlesche gives for Osage is aniN'=moN, dhaniN'=moN, niN'=moN, oNniN'=moN, which is a prefixing pattern, contrary to the OP inclusive in Dorsey's texts. Winnebago has niNiNp, inflected prefixally, which doesn't fit the set easily, though a similar waffling between *w and *p afflicts the 'to see/watch' set, which is tuNwaN in Dakotan and *toNpe in Dhegiha. Winnebago does have, however, niNiN=waN' 'to paddle', inflected niN=aNwaN', etc., i.e., niN=n^a'waN (?), niN=iN'waN= (?), etc., which more or less fits the pattern. Dakotan nuNwaN' is inflected prefixally: wanuNwaN, etc.. Across the Missouri from Decatur, NE, lies Onawa, IA, which presumably reflects Dakotan onuN'waN 'to swim in'. It looks like some sort of cline from niN(w)aN to nuNwaN exists for the 'swim' set, at least potentially analyzable as niN=(w)aN or n(iN)=o(w)aN, but maybe not. In general we expect Siouan verbs to develop from infixing patterns to prefixing patterns, via various interesting intermediate possibilities, if they don't start and remain prefixing, but I wouldn't care to guarantee the reverse never occurs. Still, it does look, from the OP and Wi (paddle) forms as if this stem may originally have been infixing, which tends to support the assumption that the first part of the stem is n(iN) 'water'. However, awkwardly, Dakotan doesn't attest niN like the other languages, but mniN, reflecting original *wriN or *priN (which I like for Proto-Mississippi Valley), and this stem has #n, not #mn in Dakotan. It might be borrowed, but that seems awkward with a verb like 'swim' in the absence of evidence of pervasive borrowing. Incidentally, Santee has yuz^a'z^a and spaye'ya for 'to bathe'. Teton makes the first of these 'to wash clothes' and the second 'to cause to be wet'. OP has kkigdhi'z^a 'to clean oneself', which seems to involve the same root as the first. OP and Osage have a root -sihi that seems to involve ritual or metaphorical cleanness. It looks from the IO, OP, Osage, etc., definitions and cross references as if the Mississippi Valley Siouan languages employ some of the same metaphors and ambiguities as English with bathing, swimming, cleaning, etc. From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Fri May 4 05:05:31 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 23:05:31 -0600 Subject: Native American Language Workshop for general posting (fwd) Message-ID: This might interest somebody. It sounds like a neat workshop, but you'd need funding of some sort. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:32:00 -0500 From: "Cronk, Michael Sam" To: "'rzavala at darkwing.uoregon.edu'" , "'john.koontz at colorado.edu'" , "'wposer at cstc.bc.ca'" Subject: Native American Language Workshop for general posting 2001 SUMMER WORKSHOP July 16-July 27, 2001 "Documenting and Teaching American Indian Languages through Multimedia" American Indian Studies Research Institute (AISRI) http://zia.aisri.indiana.edu/~workshop/ You are invited to participate in a workshop designed for linguists, educators and scholars working with Native American languages.� Our focus is the use of digital, interactive multimedia tools for language documentation and instruction. Choose one of three workshop tracks:� (1) creating multimedia dictionaries and databases, featuring the Indiana Dictionary Database, a computer application developed at AISRI; (2) producing language lessons for CD ROMs by using the Indiana Language Lesson Creator, another new application produced at AISRI; (3) or developing cultural lessons and resourcesfor the World Wide Web.�� Each session will include hands-on experience with audio and graphics digitizing software, content design and evaluation, and effective multimedia teaching strategies. Familiarity with computers and multimedia software is useful but not mandatory; media specialists are encouraged to accompany educators with little computer experience.� Come with a specific project in mind and materials you'd like to develop. Workshops will be tailored to address participants' specific goals. WORKSHOP SESSIONS (choose one only; each session lasts two weeks) Language Lesson Workshop: Learn to work with Indiana Language Lesson Creator, an innovative application that allows educators to develop multimedia language lessons for a range of skill-levels. Dictionary Database Workshop: Targeted for linguistic documentation projects such as dictionaries and other complex language resources.Learn principles of dictionary construction, language recording and working with the Indiana Dictionary Database application. Lessons Online: Learn principles of designing, delivering and evaluating effective interactive lessons for the internet. Software includes Soundforge, Dreamweaver and Photoshop. COSTS There are three options for participation: 1) A basic fee of $600 includes registration and computer use. This fee is required from all workshop participants. 2) An additional (optional) $538 covers tuition expenses for participants wishing to receive 3 graduate credits. 3) An additional (optional) $600 pays for on campus lodging and meals. Apply Online http://zia.aisri.indiana.edu/~workshop/app.html Deadline for applications is May 25, 2001 Acceptances will be announced June 1, 2001 For more information, contact: Douglas Parks (parksd at indiana.edu) Sam Cronk (scronk at indiana.edu). Phone at 812.855.4086. From ccpp at cetlink.net Fri May 4 13:49:40 2001 From: ccpp at cetlink.net (Language) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:49:40 -0400 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: I guess it was hard to follow my train of thought. I often only write half of what I'm thinking. What I meant to say was that we have the SIL fonts (Sophia, Doulos and Manuscript) loaded in our Word97 and we can write with Arial or Times New Roman but insert the diacritical marks, such as accents, nasal hooks and glottal stops, by using Ctrl + a key that we have assigned as short cut keys. For example, if I want a nasal accented 'a' followed by a glottal stop, I would key in the 'a', then Ctrl + the comma key, Ctrl + the apostrophe key and Ctrl + the ?/ key and all this takes less than 1 second. -----Original Message----- From: Koontz John E [SMTP:John.Koontz at colorado.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 1:42 PM To: 'siouan at lists.colorado.edu' Subject: RE: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word On Thu, 3 May 2001, Language wrote: > We originally started out using the SIL fonts and they worked quite > well originally until we changed them to Arial or Times New Roman, > they just came out as squares but this was ten years ago and the SIL > fonts are compatible with Microsoft now. The "Insert > menu-Symbols-normal text" method allows you to assign symbols to the > keyboard as well. However none of these work yet with e-mail > programs. I'm not sure I followed the first part. From ccpp at cetlink.net Fri May 4 13:55:58 2001 From: ccpp at cetlink.net (Language) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:55:58 -0400 Subject: orthography Message-ID: As an addendum to what I wrote to Mr. Koontz, we use Ctrl+h for the superscript h and you could assign Ctrl+n for superscript n in the MSWord. There is a possibility for the tilde on top of a letter as a separate diacritical mark with SIL fonts in conjunction with the MS fonts. -----Original Message----- From: Ardis R Eschenberg [SMTP:are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 5:46 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: orthography RE: shortcuts to raised n/h Macs have a similar shortcut but the apple symbol key is involved (I think it is control+apple+plus or shift+apple+plus...) RE: tildas (tildes?) For OP it is nice to use the raised n/h instead of tildas as they are used in the popular orthography which is in use in the community. From ioway at earthlink.net Fri May 4 14:06:48 2001 From: ioway at earthlink.net (Lance Foster) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:06:48 -0600 Subject: Verb "To swim" Message-ID: WOW John..thanks! :) from that I take it for IO: nyiwaN' = "to swim" hi'ra = "to bathe" (oldest form due to similarity to OP forms) pira/pitha/pidha (var. forms derived from hira) Lance Koontz John E wrote: > On Wed, 2 May 2001, Lance Foster wrote: > > I'm looking at some comparisons/usage of the verb "to swim". > > > > In his dictionary JGT has: > > > > to swim: nyiwan; nyinwan; hira > > to bathe: pidha; pitha; hira; pira > > hira/pira "to take a bath" > > > > Any thoughts on usages distinctions in comparison with other Siouan > > languages? > > I thought for once I'd look first and answer second. > > Omaha-Ponca has: > > hi=dha' (Pop Orth: hitha) 'to bathe' The second syllable accent > seems to be anomalous, which may suggest interesting length issues. > > niN'=uwaN (Pop. Orth: niNuwoN) 'to swim' (Swetland), and niN=(w)aN > (Dorsey) The w might be epenthetic or a reduction of the u. > > Both of these more or less closely resemble the IO forms, except the pi (= > phi?) alternative, which may be influenced by phi 'good'. > > And, since knowing the stem is only a small part of the battle, I looked > into the inflection of these. > > I believe hi=dha' is doubly inflected: ahi'=bdha, dhahi'=na, hi=dha'(=i), > aNhi'=dha(=i), deduced from the following derivative's first upon third > personal form, and consistent with the Osage pattern (in OP form) given by > LaFlesche. (Osage has dhe 'to go' appended, too, so it is triply > inflected.) > > A derivative is i'=hi=dha 'to bathe by means of', e.g., 'to bathe by means > of the rocks used in a sweatbath'. This is idha'hi=bdha, i'dhahi=na, > etc., cf. i'wihi=bdha 'I will bathe by means of you' addressed to the > stones. > > Another derivative is hidha'=khidhe 'to cause to bathe'. > > And we might mention hi=dha'=i 'Saturday' or 'bath night', lit. 'they > bathe'. > > Actually, the word for '(to take a) sweat bath' is iN=u'ppe, which looks > like it might be 'to crawl into stone(s)'. The inflection seems to be > iN=u'(w)appe, iN=u'dhappe, iN=u'ppe, iN=aN'waNppe, deduced from the third > and first persons. > > The inflection of niN'=waN in Dorsey is obscure, as he provides only > niN'=aNwaN 'we swam' in text. Unfortunately I can't check his slip file > without a major expedition yet. So this could perhaps be: niN'=maN, > niN'=z^aN, ..., or niN'=awaN, niN'=dhawaN, etc. It's also not clear if > the -w- and/or -uw- are epenthetic w before aN or reflect u- 'in' or a > stem waN or what. It's possible that both uwaN or u(w)aN and waN or aN > are reflected, i.e., 'to swim in' and 'to swim'. What LaFlesche gives for > Osage is aniN'=moN, dhaniN'=moN, niN'=moN, oNniN'=moN, which is a > prefixing pattern, contrary to the OP inclusive in Dorsey's texts. > > Winnebago has niNiNp, inflected prefixally, which doesn't fit the set > easily, though a similar waffling between *w and *p afflicts the 'to > see/watch' set, which is tuNwaN in Dakotan and *toNpe in Dhegiha. > Winnebago does have, however, niNiN=waN' 'to paddle', inflected > niN=aNwaN', etc., i.e., niN=n^a'waN (?), niN=iN'waN= (?), etc., which more > or less fits the pattern. > > Dakotan nuNwaN' is inflected prefixally: wanuNwaN, etc.. Across the > Missouri from Decatur, NE, lies Onawa, IA, which presumably reflects > Dakotan onuN'waN 'to swim in'. > > It looks like some sort of cline from niN(w)aN to nuNwaN exists for the > 'swim' set, at least potentially analyzable as niN=(w)aN or n(iN)=o(w)aN, > but maybe not. In general we expect Siouan verbs to develop from infixing > patterns to prefixing patterns, via various interesting intermediate > possibilities, if they don't start and remain prefixing, but I wouldn't > care to guarantee the reverse never occurs. Still, it does look, from the > OP and Wi (paddle) forms as if this stem may originally have been > infixing, which tends to support the assumption that the first part of the > stem is n(iN) 'water'. However, awkwardly, Dakotan doesn't attest niN > like the other languages, but mniN, reflecting original *wriN or *priN > (which I like for Proto-Mississippi Valley), and this stem has #n, not #mn > in Dakotan. It might be borrowed, but that seems awkward with a verb like > 'swim' in the absence of evidence of pervasive borrowing. > > Incidentally, Santee has yuz^a'z^a and spaye'ya for 'to bathe'. Teton > makes the first of these 'to wash clothes' and the second 'to cause to be > wet'. OP has kkigdhi'z^a 'to clean oneself', which seems to involve the > same root as the first. OP and Osage have a root -sihi that seems to > involve ritual or metaphorical cleanness. > > It looks from the IO, OP, Osage, etc., definitions and cross references as > if the Mississippi Valley Siouan languages employ some of the same > metaphors and ambiguities as English with bathing, swimming, cleaning, > etc. -- Lance Michael Foster Email: ioway at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~ioway ------------------------- Native Nations Press, 1542 Calle Angelina, Santa Fe, NM 87501 Phone: 505-438-2945 info at nativenations.com ------------------------- NativeNations.Com - Native Nations Press (http://www.nativenations.com) Baxoje Ukich'e: The Ioway Nation (http://www.ioway.org) From ahartley at d.umn.edu Fri May 4 14:21:37 2001 From: ahartley at d.umn.edu (ahartley at d.umn.edu) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:21:37 -0500 Subject: orthography Message-ID: > As an addendum to what I wrote to Mr. Koontz, we use Ctrl+h for the = > superscript h and you could assign Ctrl+n for superscript n in the = > MSWord. For those that don't know, the default function for CTRL-N in Word is "open new document", so you'd have to reassign that keystroke macro too. (The default for CTRL-H is "find and replace".) Alan From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Fri May 4 17:23:23 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:23:23 -0600 Subject: Verb "To swim" In-Reply-To: <3AF2B777.DC418039@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 May 2001, Lance Foster wrote: > WOW John..thanks! :) You're welcome! These are inflectionally interesting stems, and also interesting because of the comparative factors. > from that I take it for IO: > > nyiwaN' = "to swim" > hi'ra = "to bathe" (oldest form due to similarity to OP forms) > pira/pitha/pidha (var. forms derived from hira) Any idea how these are inflected in IO? Also, I have to admit that I didn't look for pira (?phira) forms elsewhere, though I'm pretty sure they don't exist in OP. It occurs to me that r ~ th ~ dh (presumably the latter are *s/*z?) is not a standard alternation in IO, so this looks like two different stems, one with medial r and one with medial s/z (/). JEK From rankin at ku.edu Fri May 4 17:58:02 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:58:02 -0500 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: >(Hmm maybe this is what you meant by alt a? I can't get that > to work...It inserts a table.) All of the ALT-__ and CTRL-__ sequences can be customized/changed in Word. If you don't want it to insert a table, you can alter it to do something else. Bob From jpboyle at midway.uchicago.edu Tue May 8 22:05:20 2001 From: jpboyle at midway.uchicago.edu (John P. Boyle) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:05:20 -0600 Subject: The 21st Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference Message-ID: CALL FOR PAPERS The 21st Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference June 15-16, 2001 At Ida Noyes Hall on the campus of the University of Chicago Submission deadline: May 28, 2001 The Chicago Linguistic Society (CLS) and the Native American Student Association (NASA) are proud to be hosting the 21st Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference. We invite papers that focus on any aspect of Siouan and Caddoan languages and linguistics. This can include descriptive or theoretical works as well as those that deal with language preservation and pedagogical issues. Presentations will be allotted 20 minutes with an additional 10 minutes for questions. We strongly encourage submission by e-mail. Please use the subject header "Abstract + author's last name", and include in the body of the e-mail a paper title, a 200 word abstract, author's name and any affiliation. Electronic submissions may be sent . Abstracts must be received by 4:00 p.m., March 28, 2001. Acknowledgment of receipt will be via e-mail. If you cannot use e-mail, please make note of this and provide us with your postal address. Hard copies of submissions can be sent to: John P. Boyle Department of Linguistics 1010 East 59th Street Chicago, IL. 60637 Notification of acceptance will be sent via e-mail by March 30, 2001. Registration is free and the public is welcome. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1395 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shanwest at uvic.ca Tue May 8 21:04:22 2001 From: shanwest at uvic.ca (Shannon West) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:04:22 -0700 Subject: The 21st Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: March = May, I take it? I switch them the other way for some reason. :) Abstracts must be received by 4:00 p.m., March 28, 2001. Notification of acceptance will be sent via e-mail by March 30, 2001. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpboyle at midway.uchicago.edu Tue May 8 23:40:16 2001 From: jpboyle at midway.uchicago.edu (John P. Boyle) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:40:16 -0600 Subject: The 21st Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference In-Reply-To: <006c01c0d802$7514b740$6436688e@fsh.uvic.ca> Message-ID: >March = May, I take it? > >I switch them the other way for some reason. :) > > >Abstracts must be received by 4:00 p.m., March 28, 2001. > >Notification of acceptance will be sent via e-mail by March 30, 2001. Yes, my mistake. Abstracts should be in by MAY 28 and notification will be sent by MAY 30. Thanks for pointing that out Shannon. John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 649 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed May 9 15:33:18 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:33:18 -0500 Subject: FW: death of Joseph Greenberg Message-ID: I just got this from John Kyle. -----Original Message----- From: Kyle, John H [mailto:jkyle at KU.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:57 AM To: LING-L, Subject: death of Joseph Greenberg I haven't seen it posted to the Linguist List yet, but according to the functional list Joseph Greenberg died last Monday. I've pasted the message from T. Givon. John Kyle ********************************** Dear friends and fellow travellers, The news of the passing of Joseph Greenberg, yesterday at Stanford, California, may have already filtered out through the network. As I expect, an outpouring of grief, rememberances and appreciations will now begin to gather steam. If one could deign to credit a single person as founder of our network, it would surely be Joe. For in his work most clearly than in any others', the transparent unity of typology, universals, diachrony and functionalism was manifest, indeed boldly proclaimed and painstakingly argued. His catholic tastes in languages and linguistics, his restless scholarship, his adventuresome curiosity, and above all his insistence of understanding and explanation, have inspired several generations of linguists and anthropologists. We will sorely miss him. Tom Givon From jggoodtracks at juno.com Thu May 10 13:10:43 2001 From: jggoodtracks at juno.com (Jimm G GoodTracks) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:10:43 -0500 Subject: FW: siouan placenames Message-ID: The only name I can come close to the word below is: nyu'wagu, (Spring) Lit."Water is coming from" something as from under a rock or hillside. I look in LaFlesches Osage Dictionary, and could not come up with anything similar. JGT On Thu, 3 May 2001 15:01:57 -0500 "Rankin, Robert L" writes: > > I have a note from Bill bright who is editing a book on placenames. > Can > anyone help with this? I suspected it might be Chiwere. > > Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: william bright > To: Rankin, Robert L > Sent: 5/1/01 8:49 PM > Subject: RE: siouan placenames > > hi bob; thanks for your message. there's a place in missouri called > "neongwah", "niangua" or the like. ramsay's book on missouri > placenames > doesn't give any suggestion of a meaning. do you have any clue? > thanks > and > all best; bill > -- > William Bright > Professor Emeritus of Linguistics & Anthropology, UCLA > Professor Adjoint of Linguistics, University of Colorado, Boulder > Editor, Written Language and Literacy > Editor, Native American Placenames of the United States > 1625 Mariposa Avenue, Boulder, CO 80302 > Tel. 303-444-4274 > FAX 303-413-0017 > Email william.bright at colorado.edu > > William Bright's website: http://www.ncidc.org/bright From rankin at ku.edu Thu May 10 14:05:54 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:05:54 -0500 Subject: FW: siouan placenames Message-ID: Thanks Jimm! I haven't been able to find much out about this one either. Your dictionary has been very helpful with some of the other names Bill Bright sent me though. bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Jimm G GoodTracks [mailto:jggoodtracks at juno.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 8:11 AM > To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu > Subject: Re: FW: siouan placenames > > > The only name I can come close to the word below is: > nyu'wagu, (Spring) > Lit."Water is coming from" something as from under a rock or > hillside. I > look in LaFlesches Osage Dictionary, and could not come up > with anything > similar. > JGT > > On Thu, 3 May 2001 15:01:57 -0500 "Rankin, Robert L" > writes: > > > > I have a note from Bill bright who is editing a book on placenames. > > Can > > anyone help with this? I suspected it might be Chiwere. > > > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > > From: william bright > > To: Rankin, Robert L > > Sent: 5/1/01 8:49 PM > > Subject: RE: siouan placenames > > > > hi bob; thanks for your message. there's a place in missouri called > > "neongwah", "niangua" or the like. ramsay's book on missouri > > placenames > > doesn't give any suggestion of a meaning. do you have any clue? > > thanks > > and > > all best; bill > > -- > > William Bright > > Professor Emeritus of Linguistics & Anthropology, UCLA > > Professor Adjoint of Linguistics, University of Colorado, Boulder > > Editor, Written Language and Literacy > > Editor, Native American Placenames of the United States > > 1625 Mariposa Avenue, Boulder, CO 80302 > > Tel. 303-444-4274 > > FAX 303-413-0017 > > Email william.bright at colorado.edu > > > > William Bright's website: http://www.ncidc.org/bright > From cqcq at compuserve.com Sun May 13 15:08:38 2001 From: cqcq at compuserve.com (Carolyn) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 11:08:38 -0400 Subject: Siouan and Caddoan Conference Message-ID: John, I would be very interested in attending the conference, but unfortunately the June dates are exactly when the Hominy Osage dances are. I really should attend the dances.... Carolyn Dr. Carolyn Quintero, President Inter Lingua, Inc. 1711 East 15th Street Tulsa OK 74104-4608 U.S.A. Telephone (office): +1 918 743 2424 Fax (office): +1 918 743 1347 Cell phone: +1 918 671 4545 Email (personal): cqcq at compuserve.com Email (office): ilinc at ionet.net From jggoodtracks at juno.com Sun May 13 23:57:55 2001 From: jggoodtracks at juno.com (Jimm G GoodTracks) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:57:55 -0500 Subject: Siouan and Caddoan Conference Message-ID: John! Same here. I missed Grey Horse Iroshka for the Anadarko conference. As I passed through the area, I had to answer the many "Where were you?" questions. So this year, I planned to be at the three dances in June. I trust the conference will be enjoyable by those in attendence. From rankin at ku.edu Tue May 1 22:13:57 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 17:13:57 -0500 Subject: Attn: Dhegihanists. Message-ID: Hi, I have a question one or more of you might be able to help me with -- especially since there are no Kaw speakers I can consult with. In the Kaw (Kansa) migration story there is reference to a village named "maNdaxpaye" (accent on first syllable, secondary accent on -pa-). It is referred to as "the name of the village in Mo, at which resided the ancestors of the present Osages, Kansas, Omahas and Poncas." An Osage cognate of "maNtaxpadhe" is given. I have two questions about the village name. (1) What does it mean, and (2) have any of your consultants ever heard the name or any accounts/stories about it? If so, what do they say? The Omaha/Ponca cognate, if there is one, should be either *maNdaxpadhe or *maNnaxpadhe, depending on whether the d/n goes back to a dental stop or a "funny R". If it is the 'by extreme temperature' instrumental, it would be -na-, otherwise probably -da-. The KS and OS cognates don't tell us which. As for meaning, I'm not entirely sure where or how to segment the word. In Kansa, if you segment it "maN-" and then "da:xpaye", the latter part would be the verb 'to burn down' (like a house or lodge on fire). The rest, "maN-", would have to be something else, presumably the noun that was burned down. MaN may be the root for 'land'. On the other hand, it might be "maNda" plus "xpaye" which might possibly refer to a 'lost maNda', whatever that might be. In Kansa "maNda" is a 'prohibitive' and generally means just "Don't do __________." So that wouldn't seem to fit. So far I like the 'burn down' scenario better, but I can't tell if that's what it is without help from a speaker of one of the languages or an Omaha/Ponca cognate. This is the most specific reference to the 4 tribes living together after the split with the Quapaws that I can locate in the Dorsey collections. I'd like to be able to figure it out. Any help will be much appreciated. Best, Bob From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 03:06:31 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:06:31 -0600 Subject: Attn: Dhegihanists. In-Reply-To: <5823BD992D67D3119F630008C7CF50FC0A4414E4@skylark.mail.ukans.edu> Message-ID: On Tue, 1 May 2001, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > In the Kaw (Kansa) migration story there is reference to a village > named "maNdaxpaye" (accent on first syllable, secondary accent on > -pa-). It is referred to as "the name of the village in Mo, at which > resided the ancestors of the present Osages, Kansas, Omahas and > Poncas." An Osage cognate of "maNtaxpadhe" is given. > > I have two questions about the village name. (1) What does it mean, and (2) > have any of your consultants ever heard the name or any accounts/stories > about it? If so, what do they say? With the stress and a vowel in the second syllable, I can't say that I have any ideas. The most likely possibilities are: maN'de 'bow' (wrong vowel) maNde' 'boat' (wrong vowel) maN'the 'under, within' (wrong consonant and vowel) + xpadhe 'to discard, drop; lose; be lost' (some of these require dative inflection) The vowel in the second syllable is the problem. If the a is part of xpadhe, axpadhe, then one could get e + a => a in a contraction, cf. OP maNd ugdhiN 'sit in a boat', but in Kaw the underlying d would still become j^ before the underlying e, right? Another mechanism for changing e to a would involve ablaut, which definitely occurs with maN'the before postposiitons in OP, cf., maN'tha=tta, maN'tha=di, maNtha=ha, etc., but never, so far as I know, with nouns in compoundings like verb incorporation. I also couldn't find any trace of (?)naxpadhe 'lose spontaneously or by heat', etc. Having eliminated everything on morphological ground I might venture, however, that maNde'-xpadhe 'they abandoned the boats' has a certain amount of logical consistency with the story implied. JEK From ioway at earthlink.net Wed May 2 12:49:43 2001 From: ioway at earthlink.net (Lance Foster) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 06:49:43 -0600 Subject: Verb "To swim" Message-ID: > I'm looking at some comparisons/usage of the verb "to swim". In his dictionary JGT has: to swim: nyiwan; nyinwan; hira to bathe: pidha; pitha; hira; pira hira/pira "to take a bath" Any thoughts on usages distinctions in comparison with other Siouan languages? -- Lance Michael Foster Email: ioway at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~ioway ------------------------- Native Nations Press, 1542 Calle Angelina, Santa Fe, NM 87501 Phone: 505-438-2945 info at nativenations.com ------------------------- NativeNations.Com - Native Nations Press (http://www.nativenations.com) Baxoje Ukich'e: The Ioway Nation (http://www.ioway.org) From rankin at ku.edu Wed May 2 15:44:39 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:44:39 -0500 Subject: Attn: Dhegihanists. Message-ID: > With the stress and a vowel in the second syllable, I can't say that I have any ideas. That's my problem too. I've been favoring "daxpaye" 'to fall from burning' or 'to lose by burning'. I suppose "maN'-" could be an incorporated/contracted form of "maNhe" or "maNz^aN" 'earth/land'. The English term "scorched earth" comes to mind. > xpadhe, axpadhe, then one could get e + a => a in a > contraction, cf. OP maNd ugdhiN 'sit in a boat', but in Kaw the underlying d would still become j^ before the underlying e, right? Mmmm, probably not. Palatalization usually only remains throughout the paradigm in the case of the aspirate, /th/ > /ch/. So you do get yache' 'chew' and yachabe 'chew 3sg/pl' rather than the expected *yathabe. But with yuje 'taste, dip' the 3rd person is yudabe. Bob From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 18:49:46 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 12:49:46 -0600 Subject: Attn: Dhegihanists. In-Reply-To: <5823BD992D67D3119F630008C7CF50FC0A4414EA@skylark.mail.ukans.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > > contraction, cf. OP maNd ugdhiN 'sit in a boat', but in Kaw the underlying > > d would still become j^ before the underlying e, right? > > Mmmm, probably not. Palatalization usually only remains throughout the > paradigm in the case of the aspirate, /th/ > /ch/. So you do get yache' > 'chew' and yachabe 'chew 3sg/pl' rather than the expected *yathabe. But with > yuje 'taste, dip' the 3rd person is yudabe. I was thinking of something like maNj^(e) *axpaye, where the (e) is (hypothetically) lost when the two words are contracted. Unfortunately OP affrication is conditioned by affect, not environment, but isn't there a famous (well, among comparative Siouanists) case in Chiwere of a similar contraction leaving a c^(h) before a? The only case I can remember offhand is something like thiN for expected c^hiN, where the underlying form is th(a)=iN. I think the gloss is 'visible'. The language may be IO. If it's Ks, then it should be tt(a=)iN, of course. OP has ttaN=(dh)iN. From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 19:07:55 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 13:07:55 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: I've been giving some thought to keying popular orthographies, by which I really mean things like the current OP popular systems, which rely on raised n and h to indicate nasality and aspiration, plus various in-line digraphs to represent other things like gh or th (dh). The problem with raised n and h is that they are not really part of the Windows ANSI fonts, so they can only be achived in word processors, by using the superscript font modification. You can't use them in regular Windows text files or email, etc. But if you do restrict yourself to such contexts, e.g., MS Word for Office 2000, how can you easily key them in? One scheme that can be tried in Word is the autocorrection facility. This is intended to handle cases like replacing teh with the. If you type like me then when you user Word you hear a constant series of little blips as this sort of correction occurs. Half the time, of course, it's busily correcting your OP into English, which is rather a nuisance. You can also use this facility to insert boilerplate text into your document, like legal disclaimers. It occurred to me that I could set this up to replace aN with a, since you can include "formatted text" in your replacement. To do this, you type the combination you want, like a, highlight it, and then click tools > autocorrection > autocorrection and add aN to the list of things to replace. The details here vary a bit with the character combinations, but you end up with a correction rule that replaces aN with a. There are two problems with this bright idea. One is that it seems the replacements are done only on words, not sub-words, so you have to type a space and then backspace to invoke the substitution. Also, It appears that thanks to some really clever MS programming, not only is iN replaced with i, but also In at the start of a sentence. Probably also in in the middle of a sentence, though I haven't tested that far yet. I was trying to do this and then use it immediately. Anyone have any (better, more workable) bright ideas? It is a major pain to insert the superscripting with the usual menu-based operations, as you have to turn it off afterwards, too. Even if you didn't have to, you'd still prefer to avoid the series of clicks involved. My other solution is to create new fonts with raised n and h included, and define aN as a in the associated keyboard definition. This would work in any application that allows use of arbitrary Windows fonts, but having to use a non-standard font is a problem in itself. JEK From ccpp at cetlink.net Wed May 2 19:24:33 2001 From: ccpp at cetlink.net (Language) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:24:33 -0400 Subject: Verb "To swim" Message-ID: In Catawba, we have the phrase "aN:ra':na:rire:" which means "we are going swimming". I believe "aN:ra:" is the verb root for "swim". "ya:sicihe':" (c represents c-hachek) means "I bathe in a spring" "yaN:ci" (spring), "ya'ye" (water), and "yaN:ca:" (water joint) relate to the previous phrase, perhaps to the first one as well. "isuNre:" is translated as "I bathe myself in the river"; the word for river is "iswaN" I'm not sure this will help since Catawba is the most aberrant of the Siouan languages. Maybe Dr. Rudes has some more insight on this. Claudia Y. Heinemann-Priest Catawba Cultural Preservation Project Rock Hill, South Carolina ccpp at cetlink.net www.ccppcrafts.com -----Original Message----- From: Lance Foster [SMTP:ioway at earthlink.net] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 8:50 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Verb "To swim" I'm looking at some comparisons/usage of the verb "to swim". In his dictionary JGT has: to swim: nyiwan; nyinwan; hira to bathe: pidha; pitha; hira; pira hira/pira "to take a bath" Any thoughts on usages distinctions in comparison with other Siouan languages? -- Lance Michael Foster Email: ioway at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~ioway ------------------------- Native Nations Press, 1542 Calle Angelina, Santa Fe, NM 87501 Phone: 505-438-2945 info at nativenations.com ------------------------- NativeNations.Com - Native Nations Press (http://www.nativenations.com) Baxoje Ukich'e: The Ioway Nation (http://www.ioway.org) From ccpp at cetlink.net Wed May 2 20:03:44 2001 From: ccpp at cetlink.net (Language) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 16:03:44 -0400 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: In MSWord 97 and higher, we use the "Insert" menu, "Symbol..." and in there are the vowels "a e i u" with "little right hooks" underneath , which is what we used for the nasal vowels even before Microsoft caught up. The "c-hachek" or "c-wedge" (as we like to call it) is also in there. Unfortunately this doesn't work for the MS e-mail program Outlook or any e-mail program for that matter so we use "Vowel+N" for nasals. I can receive e-mails written in German and French and not lose any of the umlauts, or accents but the software/computer industry is still backwards linguistically. Claudia Y. Heinemann-Priest Catawba Cultural Preservation Project Rock Hill, South Carolina ccpp at cetlink.net www.ccppcrafts.com -----Original Message----- From: Koontz John E [SMTP:John.Koontz at colorado.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 3:08 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word I've been giving some thought to keying popular orthographies, by which I really mean things like the current OP popular systems, which rely on raised n and h to indicate nasality and aspiration, plus various in-line digraphs to represent other things like gh or th (dh). The problem with raised n and h is that they are not really part of the Windows ANSI fonts, so they can only be achived in word processors, by using the superscript font modification. You can't use them in regular Windows text files or email, etc. But if you do restrict yourself to such contexts, e.g., MS Word for Office 2000, how can you easily key them in? One scheme that can be tried in Word is the autocorrection facility. This is intended to handle cases like replacing teh with the. If you type like me then when you user Word you hear a constant series of little blips as this sort of correction occurs. Half the time, of course, it's busily correcting your OP into English, which is rather a nuisance. You can also use this facility to insert boilerplate text into your document, like legal disclaimers. It occurred to me that I could set this up to replace aN with a, since you can include "formatted text" in your replacement. To do this, you type the combination you want, like a, highlight it, and then click tools > autocorrection > autocorrection and add aN to the list of things to replace. The details here vary a bit with the character combinations, but you end up with a correction rule that replaces aN with a. There are two problems with this bright idea. One is that it seems the replacements are done only on words, not sub-words, so you have to type a space and then backspace to invoke the substitution. Also, It appears that thanks to some really clever MS programming, not only is iN replaced with i, but also In at the start of a sentence. Probably also in in the middle of a sentence, though I haven't tested that far yet. I was trying to do this and then use it immediately. Anyone have any (better, more workable) bright ideas? It is a major pain to insert the superscripting with the usual menu-based operations, as you have to turn it off afterwards, too. Even if you didn't have to, you'd still prefer to avoid the series of clicks involved. My other solution is to create new fonts with raised n and h included, and define aN as a in the associated keyboard definition. This would work in any application that allows use of arbitrary Windows fonts, but having to use a non-standard font is a problem in itself. JEK From ahartley at d.umn.edu Wed May 2 20:57:24 2001 From: ahartley at d.umn.edu (Alan H. Hartley) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:57:24 -0500 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: > raised n and h to indicate nasality and aspiration Hope about the tilde for nasalization? Alan From munro at ucla.edu Wed May 2 21:05:02 2001 From: munro at ucla.edu (Pamela Munro) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 14:05:02 -0700 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: The problem with the tilde of course is that the normal character set provides it only on a and o. Grr. So to get this on other vowels, such as i and u, you have to have a special font. Pam "Alan H. Hartley" wrote: > > > raised n and h to indicate nasality and aspiration > > Hope about the tilde for nasalization? > > Alan From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 21:27:43 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:27:43 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <01C0D321.7771C4A0@LANGUAGE> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Language wrote: > In MSWord 97 and higher, we use the "Insert" menu, "Symbol..." and in > there are the vowels "a e i u" with "little right hooks" > underneath , which is what we used for the nasal vowels even before > Microsoft caught up. The "c-hachek" or "c-wedge" (as we like to call > it) is also in there. Unfortunately this doesn't work for the MS > e-mail program Outlook or any e-mail program for that matter so we use > "Vowel+N" for nasals. I can receive e-mails written in German and > French and not lose any of the umlauts, or accents but the > software/computer industry is still backwards linguistically. I prefer a less menu-oriented approach to inserting special characters if I can manage it, since you need two or three a word in OP. SIL (www.sil.org) distributes the TavulteSoft KeyMap program, which can be used to redefine keyboards to create various kinds of keystroke combinations that will insert characters not ordinarily accessible from the keyboard. For example, I like alt-a + V, where V is the vowel letter, capitalized or not, as a way to enter nasal vowels. This program works in all Windows programs. You do have to switch to any font you require for special characters. My recollection is that the basic Windows ABSI fonts is rather chinzy with what vowels it will combine with nasal-hook, so I suspect you are using a special font. Maybe Andy Anderson's? The downside of using KeyMap is that it is a bit of a black art, learning to write the keyboard definitions. I did write some for use with the Standard Siouan fonts. Also, Bob Rankin has had problems using the previous version (2?) with Australian versions of Windows, if I recall the combination of circumstances. Furthermore the newest version didn't like my older keyboard definitions. On the other hand, I think this is the most generic way to go as it works across applications. I don't recall if can access Word macro facilities to generate superscript characters, but it may be able to. However, of course, these won't work in Outlook, etc. If you want a menu-based approach that works in different applications, try the Windows Character Map accessory. It's not quite as nice as the Word symbol insertion tool. JEK From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 21:33:33 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:33:33 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <3AF074B4.7759C4B8@d.umn.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Alan H. Hartley wrote: > > raised n and h to indicate nasality and aspiration > > How about the tilde for nasalization? Tildes are not very popular with Siouanists, because when combined over a vowel with an acute accent they are awkward looking. In fact, all Americanists who need to combine accent or pitch marks with nasal vowels tend to avoid tilde for this reason, e.g., also Tanoanists and Athabascanists. A tilde under the vowel would work (or the accent there!), but I've not seen either approach. However, assuming you have a font which provides pre-composed vowel-tilde combinations, you could use the approach with autocorrection, such as it is, to map aN, etc., to a, etc. Or the insert symbol, character map, or KeyMap approaches would work with tilde, too. From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 21:42:44 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:42:44 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <3AF075DB.325E6DB7@ucla.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Pamela Munro wrote: > The problem with the tilde of course is that the normal character set > provides it only on a and o. Grr. So to get this on other vowels, such > as i and u, you have to have a special font. Windows ANSI has a similarly restrictive approach with ogonek (nasal hook). For some reason they only envisage it with the nasal vowels of Polish (a and e). One possible resource here is that MS provides a set of extended fonts with a lot more combinations of vowels and diacritics. These are supplements to the standard ones. Various MS software need them. Bookshelf, I think. Anyway, if you can get your mits on them they provide Times Roman, etc., compatible characters for quite a lot of new possibilities. Try going to the the Windows Update site and downloading Pan-European character support, maybe. I don't know if these are adequate to support Siouanist needs, but they are more extensive. The hitch with using these is that the extended characters are in a different font. So you can use them (only?) in software that lets you declare font choices on a character by character basis, like Word. In particular, this probably won't work in any linguistic database software or text editors. It might work in Outlook. Any fancy keyboard redefinition software would only be able to access these characters if it could switch fonts: insert font selection codes as well as character numbers. JEK From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Wed May 2 21:50:56 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:50:56 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <00225E3D.C21368@wscgate.wsc.edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Catherine Rudin wrote: > Typing superscript letters isn't all that bad once you discover > you don't actually have to go into menus to do it... At least > in MS Word ctrl-shift-+ puts you in (and then out of) > superscript mode. It's a couple of extra keystrokes, but no > worse than having to backspace out all the spaces you'd have to > leave to use the autocorrect method. Ardis E. put me onto > this, and the raised n and h have been much less of a pain > since then. That sounds like it would help alot. Thank you Catherine (and Ardis)! It's not much worse than alt-a for accented, or following N for nasal, though the compound keystrokes (in all cases) are harder on the hands. ,V is another possible key combination, instead of VN, though sometimes you may want a comma up against a vowel, I guess. I was looking for something that keyed like NetSiouan. > Another possibility, of course, is to create a raised letter > once, by whatever means, and then copy it and paste in copies > of it wherever needed... I've used this approach. Type n or h, then fix the first one, then cut and paste the raised n or h over all the n's or h's that should be raised. Psychologically it's not unlike preparing the text with hammer and chisel on a piece of flat stone, but it beats the menu approach. > Catherine (aka the anti-techie) Rudin Catherine's middle initial is L, for Luddite. From mosind at yahoo.com Thu May 3 03:58:54 2001 From: mosind at yahoo.com (Constantine Xmelnitski) Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 20:58:54 -0700 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: Talking about Win9x, MS-Word, KeyMap, and, KeyMan. In Win9x you cannot insert Unicode characters directly thru keyboard. You can select a language with its code page that will remap 256 characters to 65000 Unicode characters. KeyMap utility shows only first 256 characters of a font, even if the font has thousands of them. KeyMan does support Unicode starting from version 5.0. It makes sense to use it with Win2K or WinNT MS-Word 97 support Unicode thru Insert | Symbol and some shortcuts. It is possible to record a macro and assign any reasonable keystroke to it, as Ctrl-`-A. A macro for "a-ogonek" (char #261) reads: Selection.InsertSymbol CharacterNumber:=261, Unicode:=True Connie __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ From ccpp at cetlink.net Thu May 3 15:12:30 2001 From: ccpp at cetlink.net (Language) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:12:30 -0400 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: We originally started out using the SIL fonts and they worked quite well originally until we changed them to Arial or Times New Roman, they just came out as squares but this was ten years ago and the SIL fonts are compatible with Microsoft now. The "Insert menu-Symbols-normal text" method allows you to assign symbols to the keyboard as well. However none of these work yet with e-mail programs. -----Original Message----- From: Koontz John E [SMTP:John.Koontz at colorado.edu] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2001 5:28 PM To: 'siouan at lists.colorado.edu' Subject: RE: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word On Wed, 2 May 2001, Language wrote: > In MSWord 97 and higher, we use the "Insert" menu, "Symbol..." and in > there are the vowels "a e i u" with "little right hooks" > underneath , which is what we used for the nasal vowels even before > Microsoft caught up. The "c-hachek" or "c-wedge" (as we like to call > it) is also in there. Unfortunately this doesn't work for the MS > e-mail program Outlook or any e-mail program for that matter so we use > "Vowel+N" for nasals. I can receive e-mails written in German and > French and not lose any of the umlauts, or accents but the > software/computer industry is still backwards linguistically. I prefer a less menu-oriented approach to inserting special characters if I can manage it, since you need two or three a word in OP. SIL (www.sil.org) distributes the TavulteSoft KeyMap program, which can be used to redefine keyboards to create various kinds of keystroke combinations that will insert characters not ordinarily accessible from the keyboard. For example, I like alt-a + V, where V is the vowel letter, capitalized or not, as a way to enter nasal vowels. This program works in all Windows programs. You do have to switch to any font you require for special characters. My recollection is that the basic Windows ABSI fonts is rather chinzy with what vowels it will combine with nasal-hook, so I suspect you are using a special font. Maybe Andy Anderson's? The downside of using KeyMap is that it is a bit of a black art, learning to write the keyboard definitions. I did write some for use with the Standard Siouan fonts. Also, Bob Rankin has had problems using the previous version (2?) with Australian versions of Windows, if I recall the combination of circumstances. Furthermore the newest version didn't like my older keyboard definitions. On the other hand, I think this is the most generic way to go as it works across applications. I don't recall if can access Word macro facilities to generate superscript characters, but it may be able to. However, of course, these won't work in Outlook, etc. If you want a menu-based approach that works in different applications, try the Windows Character Map accessory. It's not quite as nice as the Word symbol insertion tool. JEK From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Thu May 3 17:41:43 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 11:41:43 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <01C0D3C1.FD40B8C0@LANGUAGE> Message-ID: On Thu, 3 May 2001, Language wrote: > We originally started out using the SIL fonts and they worked quite > well originally until we changed them to Arial or Times New Roman, > they just came out as squares but this was ten years ago and the SIL > fonts are compatible with Microsoft now. The "Insert > menu-Symbols-normal text" method allows you to assign symbols to the > keyboard as well. However none of these work yet with e-mail > programs. I'm not sure I followed the first part. I've used the SIL font generating tools for years - both editions of the HP printer fonts only for DOS (Premier and Legacy Fonts) and the first version for TrueType fonts for Windows (Encore Fonts). I believe there's a major update of Encore Fonts that I haven't used. They always worked for me but have never included tools for creating Arial or New Times fonts. Premier Fonts used Bitstream faces called Dutch and Swiss (Bitstream versions of Times and Helvetica), plus some others. Legacy Fonts and Encore Fonts use SIL creations called Doulos and Sophia (plus Manuscript, a non-proportional font). I think they claim that Doulos or more or less Times-like, but Sophia is not Helvetica-based. I forget what they say it is like - maybe Futura? The SIL faces look rather blobby in Windows but generally print acceptably. It's true that anything encoded for use in the DOS ASCII environment couldn't simply be ported to the Windows ANSI environment in most cases. The problem is that the upper range (128-255) is defined differently in the two environments and Windows, especially Word for Windows, has some conventions regarding the upper range that can be awkward. Things coming out as squares sounds like a mapping problem between DOS ASCII-based fonts and Windows ANSI-based fonts. You're quite right that the insert Symbols menu has a facility for defining keyboard shortcuts. I had never noticed this! Unfortunately it doesn't allow assigning multicharacter and/or styled text to shortcuts, so you can't generate a, or even . There is also an entry to the autocorrect facility here, but it looks like this version can't pick up multi-character highlighted sequences. As near as I can tell by experimenting, defining aN to be autocorrected to a causes AN, An, and aN to be mapped to a, with only an escaping unscathed. If you don't turn off automatic capitalization at the start of a sentence, some of the a's will be A's. I have no idea why An is treated with AN and aN. It does appear that the autocorrecting facility ignores case in the input, which explains a lot. But then why is an safe? From rankin at ku.edu Thu May 3 20:01:57 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 15:01:57 -0500 Subject: FW: siouan placenames Message-ID: I have a note from Bill bright who is editing a book on placenames. Can anyone help with this? I suspected it might be Chiwere. Bob -----Original Message----- From: william bright To: Rankin, Robert L Sent: 5/1/01 8:49 PM Subject: RE: siouan placenames hi bob; thanks for your message. there's a place in missouri called "neongwah", "niangua" or the like. ramsay's book on missouri placenames doesn't give any suggestion of a meaning. do you have any clue? thanks and all best; bill -- William Bright Professor Emeritus of Linguistics & Anthropology, UCLA Professor Adjoint of Linguistics, University of Colorado, Boulder Editor, Written Language and Literacy Editor, Native American Placenames of the United States 1625 Mariposa Avenue, Boulder, CO 80302 Tel. 303-444-4274 FAX 303-413-0017 Email william.bright at colorado.edu William Bright's website: http://www.ncidc.org/bright From are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu Thu May 3 21:46:07 2001 From: are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu (Ardis R Eschenberg) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:46:07 -0400 Subject: orthography Message-ID: RE: shortcuts to raised n/h Macs have a similar shortcut but the apple symbol key is involved (I think it is control+apple+plus or shift+apple+plus...) RE: tildas (tildes?) For OP it is nice to use the raised n/h instead of tildas as they are used in the popular orthography which is in use in the community. From are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu Thu May 3 21:54:14 2001 From: are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu (Ardis R Eschenberg) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:54:14 -0400 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: <20010503035854.46083.qmail@web13401.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: BTW I just reread one of John's other notes... I don't use alt a for an accent. The shortcut is control + apostrophe (') and then the letter. It works for both upper and lower cases of all vowels in Word. (Hmm maybe this is what you meant by alt a? I can't get that to work...It inserts a table.) -Ardis Queen of Shortcuts Eschenberg IF only I could find the shortcut to a finished diss. Maybe control + stress or alt + end From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Thu May 3 22:54:00 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 16:54:00 -0600 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word In-Reply-To: Message-ID: On Thu, 3 May 2001, Ardis R Eschenberg wrote: > BTW I just reread one of John's other notes... > I don't use alt a for an accent. The shortcut is control + apostrophe (') > and then the letter. It works for both upper and lower cases of all > vowels in Word. OK - that would be the native method (sorry - I'm looking at Java at work), which is useful to know, and which works because the Windows ANSI character set is pretty complete with respect to combinations of acute, grave, and circumflex with the usual vowels. In fact, I usually put the nasal vowels in the grave slots, and the accented nasal vowels in the circumflex slots when setting up Siouan fonts. The alt-a scheme is supported in the KeyMan keyboard that comes with the Standard Siouan fonts. If KeyMan is installed, and this keyboard is loaded and active, alt-a + vowel will produce the appropriate accented vowel in any Windows application. If all these conditions pertain and, in addition, one of the Standard Siouan TrueType fonts is the current font, it still works, since the accented vowels are in the same place. In addition, though alt-n + vowel produces a nasal vowel (marked with the hook), and alt-n + alt-a + vowel produces and accented nasal vowel (acute accent and nasal hook). If a Standard Siouan fonts isn't active, you get a grave accented vowel or a circumflex accented vowel, depending, per the logic on substitution mentioned above - because the substitution hasn't been made. Just remember that the keyboard definition and the fonts are independent of each other. > If only I could find the shortcut to a finished diss. Maybe control + > stress or alt + end Alas, none exists, though reading the sections in your word processor manual on style sheets (or templates or whatever they're called) and on doing major manuscripts in general will help with some of the more infuriating formal issues. JEK From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Fri May 4 04:58:32 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 22:58:32 -0600 Subject: Verb "To swim" In-Reply-To: <3AF00266.77188DD9@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2001, Lance Foster wrote: > I'm looking at some comparisons/usage of the verb "to swim". > > In his dictionary JGT has: > > to swim: nyiwan; nyinwan; hira > to bathe: pidha; pitha; hira; pira > hira/pira "to take a bath" > > Any thoughts on usages distinctions in comparison with other Siouan > languages? I thought for once I'd look first and answer second. Omaha-Ponca has: hi=dha' (Pop Orth: hitha) 'to bathe' The second syllable accent seems to be anomalous, which may suggest interesting length issues. niN'=uwaN (Pop. Orth: niNuwoN) 'to swim' (Swetland), and niN=(w)aN (Dorsey) The w might be epenthetic or a reduction of the u. Both of these more or less closely resemble the IO forms, except the pi (= phi?) alternative, which may be influenced by phi 'good'. And, since knowing the stem is only a small part of the battle, I looked into the inflection of these. I believe hi=dha' is doubly inflected: ahi'=bdha, dhahi'=na, hi=dha'(=i), aNhi'=dha(=i), deduced from the following derivative's first upon third personal form, and consistent with the Osage pattern (in OP form) given by LaFlesche. (Osage has dhe 'to go' appended, too, so it is triply inflected.) A derivative is i'=hi=dha 'to bathe by means of', e.g., 'to bathe by means of the rocks used in a sweatbath'. This is idha'hi=bdha, i'dhahi=na, etc., cf. i'wihi=bdha 'I will bathe by means of you' addressed to the stones. Another derivative is hidha'=khidhe 'to cause to bathe'. And we might mention hi=dha'=i 'Saturday' or 'bath night', lit. 'they bathe'. Actually, the word for '(to take a) sweat bath' is iN=u'ppe, which looks like it might be 'to crawl into stone(s)'. The inflection seems to be iN=u'(w)appe, iN=u'dhappe, iN=u'ppe, iN=aN'waNppe, deduced from the third and first persons. The inflection of niN'=waN in Dorsey is obscure, as he provides only niN'=aNwaN 'we swam' in text. Unfortunately I can't check his slip file without a major expedition yet. So this could perhaps be: niN'=maN, niN'=z^aN, ..., or niN'=awaN, niN'=dhawaN, etc. It's also not clear if the -w- and/or -uw- are epenthetic w before aN or reflect u- 'in' or a stem waN or what. It's possible that both uwaN or u(w)aN and waN or aN are reflected, i.e., 'to swim in' and 'to swim'. What LaFlesche gives for Osage is aniN'=moN, dhaniN'=moN, niN'=moN, oNniN'=moN, which is a prefixing pattern, contrary to the OP inclusive in Dorsey's texts. Winnebago has niNiNp, inflected prefixally, which doesn't fit the set easily, though a similar waffling between *w and *p afflicts the 'to see/watch' set, which is tuNwaN in Dakotan and *toNpe in Dhegiha. Winnebago does have, however, niNiN=waN' 'to paddle', inflected niN=aNwaN', etc., i.e., niN=n^a'waN (?), niN=iN'waN= (?), etc., which more or less fits the pattern. Dakotan nuNwaN' is inflected prefixally: wanuNwaN, etc.. Across the Missouri from Decatur, NE, lies Onawa, IA, which presumably reflects Dakotan onuN'waN 'to swim in'. It looks like some sort of cline from niN(w)aN to nuNwaN exists for the 'swim' set, at least potentially analyzable as niN=(w)aN or n(iN)=o(w)aN, but maybe not. In general we expect Siouan verbs to develop from infixing patterns to prefixing patterns, via various interesting intermediate possibilities, if they don't start and remain prefixing, but I wouldn't care to guarantee the reverse never occurs. Still, it does look, from the OP and Wi (paddle) forms as if this stem may originally have been infixing, which tends to support the assumption that the first part of the stem is n(iN) 'water'. However, awkwardly, Dakotan doesn't attest niN like the other languages, but mniN, reflecting original *wriN or *priN (which I like for Proto-Mississippi Valley), and this stem has #n, not #mn in Dakotan. It might be borrowed, but that seems awkward with a verb like 'swim' in the absence of evidence of pervasive borrowing. Incidentally, Santee has yuz^a'z^a and spaye'ya for 'to bathe'. Teton makes the first of these 'to wash clothes' and the second 'to cause to be wet'. OP has kkigdhi'z^a 'to clean oneself', which seems to involve the same root as the first. OP and Osage have a root -sihi that seems to involve ritual or metaphorical cleanness. It looks from the IO, OP, Osage, etc., definitions and cross references as if the Mississippi Valley Siouan languages employ some of the same metaphors and ambiguities as English with bathing, swimming, cleaning, etc. From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Fri May 4 05:05:31 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 23:05:31 -0600 Subject: Native American Language Workshop for general posting (fwd) Message-ID: This might interest somebody. It sounds like a neat workshop, but you'd need funding of some sort. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 10:32:00 -0500 From: "Cronk, Michael Sam" To: "'rzavala at darkwing.uoregon.edu'" , "'john.koontz at colorado.edu'" , "'wposer at cstc.bc.ca'" Subject: Native American Language Workshop for general posting 2001 SUMMER WORKSHOP July 16-July 27, 2001 "Documenting and Teaching American Indian Languages through Multimedia" American Indian Studies Research Institute (AISRI) http://zia.aisri.indiana.edu/~workshop/ You are invited to participate in a workshop designed for linguists, educators and scholars working with Native American languages.? Our focus is the use of digital, interactive multimedia tools for language documentation and instruction. Choose one of three workshop tracks:? (1) creating multimedia dictionaries and databases, featuring the Indiana Dictionary Database, a computer application developed at AISRI; (2) producing language lessons for CD ROMs by using the Indiana Language Lesson Creator, another new application produced at AISRI; (3) or developing cultural lessons and resourcesfor the World Wide Web.?? Each session will include hands-on experience with audio and graphics digitizing software, content design and evaluation, and effective multimedia teaching strategies. Familiarity with computers and multimedia software is useful but not mandatory; media specialists are encouraged to accompany educators with little computer experience.? Come with a specific project in mind and materials you'd like to develop. Workshops will be tailored to address participants' specific goals. WORKSHOP SESSIONS (choose one only; each session lasts two weeks) Language Lesson Workshop: Learn to work with Indiana Language Lesson Creator, an innovative application that allows educators to develop multimedia language lessons for a range of skill-levels. Dictionary Database Workshop: Targeted for linguistic documentation projects such as dictionaries and other complex language resources.Learn principles of dictionary construction, language recording and working with the Indiana Dictionary Database application. Lessons Online: Learn principles of designing, delivering and evaluating effective interactive lessons for the internet. Software includes Soundforge, Dreamweaver and Photoshop. COSTS There are three options for participation: 1) A basic fee of $600 includes registration and computer use. This fee is required from all workshop participants. 2) An additional (optional) $538 covers tuition expenses for participants wishing to receive 3 graduate credits. 3) An additional (optional) $600 pays for on campus lodging and meals. Apply Online http://zia.aisri.indiana.edu/~workshop/app.html Deadline for applications is May 25, 2001 Acceptances will be announced June 1, 2001 For more information, contact: Douglas Parks (parksd at indiana.edu) Sam Cronk (scronk at indiana.edu). Phone at 812.855.4086. From ccpp at cetlink.net Fri May 4 13:49:40 2001 From: ccpp at cetlink.net (Language) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:49:40 -0400 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: I guess it was hard to follow my train of thought. I often only write half of what I'm thinking. What I meant to say was that we have the SIL fonts (Sophia, Doulos and Manuscript) loaded in our Word97 and we can write with Arial or Times New Roman but insert the diacritical marks, such as accents, nasal hooks and glottal stops, by using Ctrl + a key that we have assigned as short cut keys. For example, if I want a nasal accented 'a' followed by a glottal stop, I would key in the 'a', then Ctrl + the comma key, Ctrl + the apostrophe key and Ctrl + the ?/ key and all this takes less than 1 second. -----Original Message----- From: Koontz John E [SMTP:John.Koontz at colorado.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 1:42 PM To: 'siouan at lists.colorado.edu' Subject: RE: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word On Thu, 3 May 2001, Language wrote: > We originally started out using the SIL fonts and they worked quite > well originally until we changed them to Arial or Times New Roman, > they just came out as squares but this was ten years ago and the SIL > fonts are compatible with Microsoft now. The "Insert > menu-Symbols-normal text" method allows you to assign symbols to the > keyboard as well. However none of these work yet with e-mail > programs. I'm not sure I followed the first part. From ccpp at cetlink.net Fri May 4 13:55:58 2001 From: ccpp at cetlink.net (Language) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:55:58 -0400 Subject: orthography Message-ID: As an addendum to what I wrote to Mr. Koontz, we use Ctrl+h for the superscript h and you could assign Ctrl+n for superscript n in the MSWord. There is a possibility for the tilde on top of a letter as a separate diacritical mark with SIL fonts in conjunction with the MS fonts. -----Original Message----- From: Ardis R Eschenberg [SMTP:are2 at acsu.buffalo.edu] Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 5:46 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: orthography RE: shortcuts to raised n/h Macs have a similar shortcut but the apple symbol key is involved (I think it is control+apple+plus or shift+apple+plus...) RE: tildas (tildes?) For OP it is nice to use the raised n/h instead of tildas as they are used in the popular orthography which is in use in the community. From ioway at earthlink.net Fri May 4 14:06:48 2001 From: ioway at earthlink.net (Lance Foster) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 08:06:48 -0600 Subject: Verb "To swim" Message-ID: WOW John..thanks! :) from that I take it for IO: nyiwaN' = "to swim" hi'ra = "to bathe" (oldest form due to similarity to OP forms) pira/pitha/pidha (var. forms derived from hira) Lance Koontz John E wrote: > On Wed, 2 May 2001, Lance Foster wrote: > > I'm looking at some comparisons/usage of the verb "to swim". > > > > In his dictionary JGT has: > > > > to swim: nyiwan; nyinwan; hira > > to bathe: pidha; pitha; hira; pira > > hira/pira "to take a bath" > > > > Any thoughts on usages distinctions in comparison with other Siouan > > languages? > > I thought for once I'd look first and answer second. > > Omaha-Ponca has: > > hi=dha' (Pop Orth: hitha) 'to bathe' The second syllable accent > seems to be anomalous, which may suggest interesting length issues. > > niN'=uwaN (Pop. Orth: niNuwoN) 'to swim' (Swetland), and niN=(w)aN > (Dorsey) The w might be epenthetic or a reduction of the u. > > Both of these more or less closely resemble the IO forms, except the pi (= > phi?) alternative, which may be influenced by phi 'good'. > > And, since knowing the stem is only a small part of the battle, I looked > into the inflection of these. > > I believe hi=dha' is doubly inflected: ahi'=bdha, dhahi'=na, hi=dha'(=i), > aNhi'=dha(=i), deduced from the following derivative's first upon third > personal form, and consistent with the Osage pattern (in OP form) given by > LaFlesche. (Osage has dhe 'to go' appended, too, so it is triply > inflected.) > > A derivative is i'=hi=dha 'to bathe by means of', e.g., 'to bathe by means > of the rocks used in a sweatbath'. This is idha'hi=bdha, i'dhahi=na, > etc., cf. i'wihi=bdha 'I will bathe by means of you' addressed to the > stones. > > Another derivative is hidha'=khidhe 'to cause to bathe'. > > And we might mention hi=dha'=i 'Saturday' or 'bath night', lit. 'they > bathe'. > > Actually, the word for '(to take a) sweat bath' is iN=u'ppe, which looks > like it might be 'to crawl into stone(s)'. The inflection seems to be > iN=u'(w)appe, iN=u'dhappe, iN=u'ppe, iN=aN'waNppe, deduced from the third > and first persons. > > The inflection of niN'=waN in Dorsey is obscure, as he provides only > niN'=aNwaN 'we swam' in text. Unfortunately I can't check his slip file > without a major expedition yet. So this could perhaps be: niN'=maN, > niN'=z^aN, ..., or niN'=awaN, niN'=dhawaN, etc. It's also not clear if > the -w- and/or -uw- are epenthetic w before aN or reflect u- 'in' or a > stem waN or what. It's possible that both uwaN or u(w)aN and waN or aN > are reflected, i.e., 'to swim in' and 'to swim'. What LaFlesche gives for > Osage is aniN'=moN, dhaniN'=moN, niN'=moN, oNniN'=moN, which is a > prefixing pattern, contrary to the OP inclusive in Dorsey's texts. > > Winnebago has niNiNp, inflected prefixally, which doesn't fit the set > easily, though a similar waffling between *w and *p afflicts the 'to > see/watch' set, which is tuNwaN in Dakotan and *toNpe in Dhegiha. > Winnebago does have, however, niNiN=waN' 'to paddle', inflected > niN=aNwaN', etc., i.e., niN=n^a'waN (?), niN=iN'waN= (?), etc., which more > or less fits the pattern. > > Dakotan nuNwaN' is inflected prefixally: wanuNwaN, etc.. Across the > Missouri from Decatur, NE, lies Onawa, IA, which presumably reflects > Dakotan onuN'waN 'to swim in'. > > It looks like some sort of cline from niN(w)aN to nuNwaN exists for the > 'swim' set, at least potentially analyzable as niN=(w)aN or n(iN)=o(w)aN, > but maybe not. In general we expect Siouan verbs to develop from infixing > patterns to prefixing patterns, via various interesting intermediate > possibilities, if they don't start and remain prefixing, but I wouldn't > care to guarantee the reverse never occurs. Still, it does look, from the > OP and Wi (paddle) forms as if this stem may originally have been > infixing, which tends to support the assumption that the first part of the > stem is n(iN) 'water'. However, awkwardly, Dakotan doesn't attest niN > like the other languages, but mniN, reflecting original *wriN or *priN > (which I like for Proto-Mississippi Valley), and this stem has #n, not #mn > in Dakotan. It might be borrowed, but that seems awkward with a verb like > 'swim' in the absence of evidence of pervasive borrowing. > > Incidentally, Santee has yuz^a'z^a and spaye'ya for 'to bathe'. Teton > makes the first of these 'to wash clothes' and the second 'to cause to be > wet'. OP has kkigdhi'z^a 'to clean oneself', which seems to involve the > same root as the first. OP and Osage have a root -sihi that seems to > involve ritual or metaphorical cleanness. > > It looks from the IO, OP, Osage, etc., definitions and cross references as > if the Mississippi Valley Siouan languages employ some of the same > metaphors and ambiguities as English with bathing, swimming, cleaning, > etc. -- Lance Michael Foster Email: ioway at earthlink.net http://home.earthlink.net/~ioway ------------------------- Native Nations Press, 1542 Calle Angelina, Santa Fe, NM 87501 Phone: 505-438-2945 info at nativenations.com ------------------------- NativeNations.Com - Native Nations Press (http://www.nativenations.com) Baxoje Ukich'e: The Ioway Nation (http://www.ioway.org) From ahartley at d.umn.edu Fri May 4 14:21:37 2001 From: ahartley at d.umn.edu (ahartley at d.umn.edu) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 09:21:37 -0500 Subject: orthography Message-ID: > As an addendum to what I wrote to Mr. Koontz, we use Ctrl+h for the = > superscript h and you could assign Ctrl+n for superscript n in the = > MSWord. For those that don't know, the default function for CTRL-N in Word is "open new document", so you'd have to reassign that keystroke macro too. (The default for CTRL-H is "find and replace".) Alan From John.Koontz at colorado.edu Fri May 4 17:23:23 2001 From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:23:23 -0600 Subject: Verb "To swim" In-Reply-To: <3AF2B777.DC418039@earthlink.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 4 May 2001, Lance Foster wrote: > WOW John..thanks! :) You're welcome! These are inflectionally interesting stems, and also interesting because of the comparative factors. > from that I take it for IO: > > nyiwaN' = "to swim" > hi'ra = "to bathe" (oldest form due to similarity to OP forms) > pira/pitha/pidha (var. forms derived from hira) Any idea how these are inflected in IO? Also, I have to admit that I didn't look for pira (?phira) forms elsewhere, though I'm pretty sure they don't exist in OP. It occurs to me that r ~ th ~ dh (presumably the latter are *s/*z?) is not a standard alternation in IO, so this looks like two different stems, one with medial r and one with medial s/z (/). JEK From rankin at ku.edu Fri May 4 17:58:02 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:58:02 -0500 Subject: Keying Popular Orthographies in MS Word Message-ID: >(Hmm maybe this is what you meant by alt a? I can't get that > to work...It inserts a table.) All of the ALT-__ and CTRL-__ sequences can be customized/changed in Word. If you don't want it to insert a table, you can alter it to do something else. Bob From jpboyle at midway.uchicago.edu Tue May 8 22:05:20 2001 From: jpboyle at midway.uchicago.edu (John P. Boyle) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 16:05:20 -0600 Subject: The 21st Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference Message-ID: CALL FOR PAPERS The 21st Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference June 15-16, 2001 At Ida Noyes Hall on the campus of the University of Chicago Submission deadline: May 28, 2001 The Chicago Linguistic Society (CLS) and the Native American Student Association (NASA) are proud to be hosting the 21st Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference. We invite papers that focus on any aspect of Siouan and Caddoan languages and linguistics. This can include descriptive or theoretical works as well as those that deal with language preservation and pedagogical issues. Presentations will be allotted 20 minutes with an additional 10 minutes for questions. We strongly encourage submission by e-mail. Please use the subject header "Abstract + author's last name", and include in the body of the e-mail a paper title, a 200 word abstract, author's name and any affiliation. Electronic submissions may be sent . Abstracts must be received by 4:00 p.m., March 28, 2001. Acknowledgment of receipt will be via e-mail. If you cannot use e-mail, please make note of this and provide us with your postal address. Hard copies of submissions can be sent to: John P. Boyle Department of Linguistics 1010 East 59th Street Chicago, IL. 60637 Notification of acceptance will be sent via e-mail by March 30, 2001. Registration is free and the public is welcome. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 1395 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shanwest at uvic.ca Tue May 8 21:04:22 2001 From: shanwest at uvic.ca (Shannon West) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 14:04:22 -0700 Subject: The 21st Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference In-Reply-To: Message-ID: March = May, I take it? I switch them the other way for some reason. :) Abstracts must be received by 4:00 p.m., March 28, 2001. Notification of acceptance will be sent via e-mail by March 30, 2001. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jpboyle at midway.uchicago.edu Tue May 8 23:40:16 2001 From: jpboyle at midway.uchicago.edu (John P. Boyle) Date: Tue, 8 May 2001 17:40:16 -0600 Subject: The 21st Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference In-Reply-To: <006c01c0d802$7514b740$6436688e@fsh.uvic.ca> Message-ID: >March = May, I take it? > >I switch them the other way for some reason. :) > > >Abstracts must be received by 4:00 p.m., March 28, 2001. > >Notification of acceptance will be sent via e-mail by March 30, 2001. Yes, my mistake. Abstracts should be in by MAY 28 and notification will be sent by MAY 30. Thanks for pointing that out Shannon. John -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/enriched Size: 649 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed May 9 15:33:18 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 9 May 2001 10:33:18 -0500 Subject: FW: death of Joseph Greenberg Message-ID: I just got this from John Kyle. -----Original Message----- From: Kyle, John H [mailto:jkyle at KU.EDU] Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2001 9:57 AM To: LING-L, Subject: death of Joseph Greenberg I haven't seen it posted to the Linguist List yet, but according to the functional list Joseph Greenberg died last Monday. I've pasted the message from T. Givon. John Kyle ********************************** Dear friends and fellow travellers, The news of the passing of Joseph Greenberg, yesterday at Stanford, California, may have already filtered out through the network. As I expect, an outpouring of grief, rememberances and appreciations will now begin to gather steam. If one could deign to credit a single person as founder of our network, it would surely be Joe. For in his work most clearly than in any others', the transparent unity of typology, universals, diachrony and functionalism was manifest, indeed boldly proclaimed and painstakingly argued. His catholic tastes in languages and linguistics, his restless scholarship, his adventuresome curiosity, and above all his insistence of understanding and explanation, have inspired several generations of linguists and anthropologists. We will sorely miss him. Tom Givon From jggoodtracks at juno.com Thu May 10 13:10:43 2001 From: jggoodtracks at juno.com (Jimm G GoodTracks) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 08:10:43 -0500 Subject: FW: siouan placenames Message-ID: The only name I can come close to the word below is: nyu'wagu, (Spring) Lit."Water is coming from" something as from under a rock or hillside. I look in LaFlesches Osage Dictionary, and could not come up with anything similar. JGT On Thu, 3 May 2001 15:01:57 -0500 "Rankin, Robert L" writes: > > I have a note from Bill bright who is editing a book on placenames. > Can > anyone help with this? I suspected it might be Chiwere. > > Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: william bright > To: Rankin, Robert L > Sent: 5/1/01 8:49 PM > Subject: RE: siouan placenames > > hi bob; thanks for your message. there's a place in missouri called > "neongwah", "niangua" or the like. ramsay's book on missouri > placenames > doesn't give any suggestion of a meaning. do you have any clue? > thanks > and > all best; bill > -- > William Bright > Professor Emeritus of Linguistics & Anthropology, UCLA > Professor Adjoint of Linguistics, University of Colorado, Boulder > Editor, Written Language and Literacy > Editor, Native American Placenames of the United States > 1625 Mariposa Avenue, Boulder, CO 80302 > Tel. 303-444-4274 > FAX 303-413-0017 > Email william.bright at colorado.edu > > William Bright's website: http://www.ncidc.org/bright From rankin at ku.edu Thu May 10 14:05:54 2001 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 10 May 2001 09:05:54 -0500 Subject: FW: siouan placenames Message-ID: Thanks Jimm! I haven't been able to find much out about this one either. Your dictionary has been very helpful with some of the other names Bill Bright sent me though. bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Jimm G GoodTracks [mailto:jggoodtracks at juno.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2001 8:11 AM > To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu > Subject: Re: FW: siouan placenames > > > The only name I can come close to the word below is: > nyu'wagu, (Spring) > Lit."Water is coming from" something as from under a rock or > hillside. I > look in LaFlesches Osage Dictionary, and could not come up > with anything > similar. > JGT > > On Thu, 3 May 2001 15:01:57 -0500 "Rankin, Robert L" > writes: > > > > I have a note from Bill bright who is editing a book on placenames. > > Can > > anyone help with this? I suspected it might be Chiwere. > > > > Bob > > -----Original Message----- > > From: william bright > > To: Rankin, Robert L > > Sent: 5/1/01 8:49 PM > > Subject: RE: siouan placenames > > > > hi bob; thanks for your message. there's a place in missouri called > > "neongwah", "niangua" or the like. ramsay's book on missouri > > placenames > > doesn't give any suggestion of a meaning. do you have any clue? > > thanks > > and > > all best; bill > > -- > > William Bright > > Professor Emeritus of Linguistics & Anthropology, UCLA > > Professor Adjoint of Linguistics, University of Colorado, Boulder > > Editor, Written Language and Literacy > > Editor, Native American Placenames of the United States > > 1625 Mariposa Avenue, Boulder, CO 80302 > > Tel. 303-444-4274 > > FAX 303-413-0017 > > Email william.bright at colorado.edu > > > > William Bright's website: http://www.ncidc.org/bright > From cqcq at compuserve.com Sun May 13 15:08:38 2001 From: cqcq at compuserve.com (Carolyn) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 11:08:38 -0400 Subject: Siouan and Caddoan Conference Message-ID: John, I would be very interested in attending the conference, but unfortunately the June dates are exactly when the Hominy Osage dances are. I really should attend the dances.... Carolyn Dr. Carolyn Quintero, President Inter Lingua, Inc. 1711 East 15th Street Tulsa OK 74104-4608 U.S.A. Telephone (office): +1 918 743 2424 Fax (office): +1 918 743 1347 Cell phone: +1 918 671 4545 Email (personal): cqcq at compuserve.com Email (office): ilinc at ionet.net From jggoodtracks at juno.com Sun May 13 23:57:55 2001 From: jggoodtracks at juno.com (Jimm G GoodTracks) Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 18:57:55 -0500 Subject: Siouan and Caddoan Conference Message-ID: John! Same here. I missed Grey Horse Iroshka for the Anadarko conference. As I passed through the area, I had to answer the many "Where were you?" questions. So this year, I planned to be at the three dances in June. I trust the conference will be enjoyable by those in attendence.