Same word, different meanings

["Alfred W. Tüting"]

John, thanks a lot for your enlightening comment. I also had the scenery
in mind you're describing (although never having been to Sioux land -
but it might be comparable in this respect to that of Alaska or also the
Puszta in Hungary). I posted off-list b/c according to your (private)
reply. But I can also put it to the list (see below). Thanks.


>>> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, "Alfred W. Tüting" wrote:
BTW, NaNz^iN naNz^iN.  'It KEEPS ON raining' looks like sort of
reduplication ;-) <<<<<<

>>It looks like reduplication here, but the first verb is 'it rains' and the second is 'it stands', so this is 'it stands raining', not 'it
rains [and] rains'.  Duratives are formed with the current verbs 'to
stand', 'to sit' and 'to walk'.  I don't recall a case with 'to lie' at
the moment.  The verb chosen depends on semantic features of the process
that endures.
The Omahas providing these examples are aware that 'rain' and various
other things 'stand' when they keep on happening.<<<<


 >Thanks, now I got it. So the two words are real homophones - and my
Hungarian example had nothing to do with this issue :(

What seems interesting to me is that the O-P idea behind this use is
different from that in English or German: 'it goes on (raining etc.)' -
'der Regen geht weiter'/es regnet weiter' which indicates kind of
movement/progression, whereas O-P 'stand'/'sit' denotes that an action
is lasting/remaining/standing still. - Okay, this doesn't hold for O-P
'to walk' :)

Thanks again

Alfred<<

(John's answer):
This came to me as opposed to the list.  I don't know if that was
accidental or deliberate, so I'll respond off list.  You're welcome to
post your original and/or this if you like.


In Siouan languages (and OP is typical of them in this respect) on-going
processes are characterized in terms of shapes or postures, and the
standard four "shapes" for Dhegiha are standing/vertically extended,
sitting/compact, lying/horizontally extended, and moving.  For example,
the corresponding animate obviative articles are tHaN, dhiNkHe, khe,
dhiN, corresponding to the durative auxiliaries naNz^iN, gdhiN, (z^aN
?), maNdhiN.

I'm not sure that the "goes/keeps on, continues" idea is quite the same,
i.e., the construction in German and English uses verbs that may or may
not involve a root for motion, but as a whole reflects an idiom for
"continue."  The OP form uses a verb that describes an enduring shape or
posture.  When 'walk' appears it refers to things that progress in space
or time (e.g., health) while at the same time persisting across time.
So the motion verb element figures in different ways.  The persistance
in time is the dimension of motion in the German and English cases.  The
motion that the thing in question experiences while persisting is the
dimension of motion in the OP case.

Incidentally, out on the plains you can see rain falling in other places
a long way off.  Most places nothing obstructs the view of this - few
trees, no really high hills, and no misty, foggy air.  I've had visitors
remark on this a lot.  I remember once driving up to a visible wall of
rain in Wyoming, passing into the area being rained on, and coming out
on the other side after a while.  If I'd parked beside the road, the
rain would have come up to me and passed over me.  I guess that would
have been walking rain!  The long plumes of rain descending from the
distant clouds to the ground are very noticeable.  Anyway, I think
"standing" refers to the visible vertical path of falling rain, near or far.

I suspect rain could also 'walk' as above, but this would suggest the
visible progress of a storm across space.  Varying the "shape" gender of
a thing or activity is something that OP manipulates for descriptive
affect, at least in some cases.  I'll have to look up some examples of
'walk' as a durative.