Ponca - pathanike?

[Tom Leonard]

As John Koontz pointed out, it is very difficult it is to learn a language from/through songs. I tried for years (how I got started in this) and I can safely say it doesn't work well at all. That song is a real good example. In addition, there's lots of paraphrasing going on in that recording (vs. word by word translation). Add vocables, vowel lengthening and abbreviation, song meter, etc., and you can end up in a linguistic mess (imagine trying to learn English from songs on the radio!).

The very song you are referring to has been translated by some other Ponca speakers. To be brief, I believe the word was/is Pa'thiNge (pa - head / thiNge -none, translated as "no head" or "headless", also "head takers"). Historically, Pa thiN'ge was the name of one of the original four Hethuska groups on the Ponca reservation. Their dance grounds were located just west of Bois D'Arc, near Giveswater.

When I had asked about that song and that particular word (from the very recording you are referring to) a few informants said "they didn't sing that right; there is no such word". 

On the other hand, to try and parse the word "pa-tha-nike" is difficult. "Ni ke" can roughly be translated as "you are" (e.g. udoN nike, you are good , or "aHta nike" you are the best). Pa can translated as 'head' or 'nose'. But I've never been able to find anything on "pa'tha", or the morpheme "tha" that would make any sense within the phrase.

"Pa thiN'ge" makes sense historically and culturally. As to whether "they sang it right" or not or if that's the exact word........that's one of those sacred cow controversies from which I'd prefer to stay clear.
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