inclusive/exclusive

[Marino]

Hello Bob

I'd like a copy, too.  Thanks.

Mary




At 10:10 AM 12/28/2005, you wrote:
>I'm incorporating my new data from Tutelo in the paper and will send my 
>draft as soon as I finish the minor revision.     Bob
>
>________________________________
>
>From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of David Kaufman
>Sent: Mon 12/12/2005 12:47 PM
>To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
>Subject: RE: inclusive/exclusive
>
>
> > I have a paper on that I can send folks. >
>
>Bob, I for one would like a copy.  Thanks!
>
>Dave
>
>"Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu> wrote:
>
>         I have a paper on that I can send folks. Bob
>
>         ________________________________
>
>         From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of David Kaufman
>         Sent: Sun 12/11/2005 3:49 PM
>         To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
>         Subject: RE: inclusive/exclusive
>
>
>         > Yuchi, oN- 'inclusive' and noN- 'exclusive'. >
>
>         Just curious. I may be behind the times here, but has more 
> research confirmed that Yuchi is definitively a Siouan language?
>
>         Dave
>
>         "Rankin, Robert L" wrote:
>
>         Although I think Siouan languages once had a real 
> inclusive/exclusive distinction (uN- 'inclusive'; nuN- 'exclusive'), t he 
> Mississippi Valley languages, nowadays at least, seem to have 
> dual/plural, with dual including the person addressed, i.e., you&me. So 
> uN(k)-VERB is 'inclusive' and uN(k)-VERB-api is 'we (more than just you 
> and I)'. So if I understand it correctly there is indeed a 
> 'dual-inclusive' in MVS but there is no corresponding 'exclusive', just a 
> generalized 'plural'. And the plural, as far as I know, does not 
> necessarily exclude the p erson addressed.
>
>         The original inclusive/exclusive distinction may be preserved in 
> other subgroups of Siouan. I think Randy has found some evidence for it 
> in Crow and there is evidence in Tutelo in a "hapax legomenon" form. 
> Mandan retains ruN- as its general 'we' prefix. Catawba retains nuN- as 
> an object, 'us', and the original inclusive/exclusive distinction is 
> intact in Yuchi, oN- 'inclusive' and noN- 'exclusive'.
>
>         I really have no idea what Dakotan speakers do with the 
> disjunctive pronoun uNkiye as far as this distinction goes. Are t here 
> distinct forms uNkiye/uNkiyepi?? Or are the separable pronouns simply 
> outside the system?
>
>         Bob
>
>         ________________________________
>
>         From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of shokooh Ingham
>         Sent: Sat 12/10/2005 3:40 PM
>         To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
>         Subject: inclusive/exclusive
>
>
>
>         I have just discovered, after studying Lakota for
>         about twelve years that I have been using the terms
>         e xclusive and inclusive wrongly. I always thought
>         that 'exclusive we' uNkiye meant that the 3rd person
>         was excluded and 'inclusive we' uNkiyepi meant that
>         the 3rd person could be included. If it is the other
>         way around, does it make sense? If uNkiyepi is
>         exclusive, what is it excluding? It does not exclude
>         2nd person, because uNkiyepi could mean 'I, you and a
>         third party'. Possibly there is some other rational
>         for this use of the terminology. Does anyone know
>         what it is? It seems to make more sense in Cree where
>         nimiic inaan (exclusive we eat) means 'I and others
>         excluding you', whereas kimiicinaw (inclusive we eat)
>         means 'I and possibly others including you'. I also
>         note that the term dual can be used for the uNkiye in
>         Lakota meaning 'you and I'. Does anyone know whether
>         it can mean 'more than one of you plus I', in which
>         case it would not really be a dual.
>         We live and learn
>         Bruce
>
>
>
>
>
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