shah and shaw

[Rankin, Robert L]

> As a true-born Brit (and RP-speaker) and thus heir to the nation who gave the world English, 
 
Right.
 
> . . . "shah" and "shaw" are different for me.Shaw is higher up on the vowel trapezoid than shah.  BUT in many (disparate) parts of England (Newcastle; Bury in Lancashire, and others) this isn't the case and the vowels merge.  I say Ahkansaw but I recognis ethat etymologhically, in Miami-Illinois (and indeed in Quapaw), the vowel is much more like the 'shah' vowel.

>>From what I hear (and maybe sometimes say -- I was an Army Brat and we moved a lot during WW-II) 'shah' should have the same vowel as 'cot' and Shaw the same as 'caught'?   I THINK I have something close to an open O in both, but something just slightly lower, like the [cursive A].
 
Bob