Funny W

[Rory M Larson]

John,

Thanks for the explanation of Goldsmith's segmental theory.  That
supplements what I was able to get from Wikipedia after our exchange
previously, and is very helpful.  Although I sort of follow the broad idea,
I think I'm still missing an explanation of the specific symbols used.


> So, to get back to the actual point I was trying to make:
>
> Actually, what's missing here is a non-N (an O?) following the N and
> linking to the V.

I had considered using something like that in the scheme I made up.  I
decided that it was easier to see the nasalization if I just left the
non-nasal part of the tier blank.

>  In essence, I'm suggesting that all words get an
> automatic initial added N that only comes home to roost on r and w.

Do you mean just in proto-Siouan, or universally?

>  If
> the word has an N attached to the following vowel "organically" then the
> effect is that r and w become n and m.  If the first vowel is oral then
> the orality and nasality engage in a struggle for the soul of the r or w
> and settle on a compromise that sounds like nd or mb.  Not "n-dah" and
> "m-bah" to parody the syllabic nasals of Swahili, but "raised n"-d and
> "raised m"-b - a much more subtle affect akin to speaking with a cold.
The
> initial b of "bandaid" reduced to "mbadaid."
>
> In intervocalic positions there is no stray N of initial nasalization,
and
> you get just plain r or w.

This cold-speak idea is fascinating, but I'm not sure that's actually
nasalization you're describing here.  The point of nasalization is that the
sound goes out your nose, while the point of having a cold is to clog up
the nasal passage and prevent that from happening.  I think what you're
actually touching on here is, first, that it is possible for vocalization
to occur while a full stop is in place, and second, that that is not the
normal way we make voiced stops.  Try closing your mouth, pinching your
nose, and then vocalizing.  You can actually do it for up to a second or so
before the air pressure above your vocal cords builds up enough to
counteract what your diaphragm can produce from below.  If you let it into
your mouth, your cheeks puff up; if you let it into your nasal passage, the
root of your nose expands; and if you keep it out of both areas, your
throat swells.  But you can do it.  And it sounds weird.

I think the subtle effect you describe for "bandaid" probably applies to
the interior nd, but is not obligatory for the leading b, unless something
nasal precedes it.  When you hit a nasal consonant plus stop while
suffering from a clogged nasal passage, you try to vocalize for the
preceding nasal consonant, which is full oral closure, and now also full
nasal closure, thanks to the clog.  This produces the same weird sound
derived experimentally above.  It's a muffled, interior vocalization sound,
which may well sound rather like a nasal, because a true nasal also muffles
a sound by running it through a complicated set of interior channels.  It
may also be produced partly in the same place, insofar as it gets partway
into the nasal cavity before it is stopped.

This also means that I was wrong in supposing that voiced stop consonants
are voiced all the way through.  If I hold my hand on my throat and say
DA-DA-DA-DA very slowly, I do not feel vocal vibration while the stop is in
place.  If I try forcing vocalization through it, I get the cold-speak
sound you describe.  The difference between a voiced and a voiceless stop
seems not to be that the stop itself is voiced in the former, but that the
release click is.  Thus:

  Nasal
  Oral         TTTT*aaaa
  Laryngeal         VVVV

is /ta/, while

  Nasal
  Oral         TTTT*aaaa
  Laryngeal        VVVVV

is /da/.  Normal "bandaid" is

  Nasal                NNNNN
  Oral         PPPP*aaaaTTTTTTTT*eeeeTTTT*
  Laryngeal        VVVVVVVVV    VVVVV    VV

, while cold-speak "bandaid" is

  Nasal
  Oral         PPPP*aaaaTTTTTTTT*eeeeTTTT*
  Laryngeal        VVVVVVVVV    VVVVV    VV

, retaining alveolar closure with vocalization, but losing the nasal
escape.

(Legend. Nasal: N - nasal passage open; blank - nasal passage closed.
         Oral:  P - full labial closure; T - full alveolar closure; * -
release click of a stop; a/e - the vowels.
         Laryngeal:  V - vocal cords vibrating; blank - vocal cords not
vibrating. )


>   I'm just
> looking for ways to explain what we see.  I assume Proto-(MV)Siouan was a
> real language with a plausible, real phonology.  I don't want to mistake
> PMV for one of the current languages or their phonologies, even if I
> appeal to those for cognate sets or as instances of plausible phonologies
> and plausible rules.

I fully agree.

Rory
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