From rankin at ku.edu Thu Jul 5 21:06:59 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 16:06:59 -0500 Subject: Siouanist meeting in October. Message-ID: Just a reminder that the abstract deadline for MALC Siouan papers for the meeting at KU in late October is coming up in about 3 weeks. Abstracts need to be sent to Sara Rosen at KU before August 1st. The procedures are a little more formal that our normal Siouan Conference ones. If anyone needs to see the guidelines again, I can post them on request, or you can check them out on Linguist List under Mid-America Linguistics Conference. Bob From geocultural at yahoo.com Tue Jul 10 04:56:12 2007 From: geocultural at yahoo.com (Robert Myers) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:56:12 +0700 Subject: Okams, Okaga, Ugaxpa Message-ID: I'm new to the Siouan list and am hoping to share historical materials I've been collecting for years pertaining to Siouan-speaking peoples. I'm not a linguist but am hoping some of these materials will be helpful to specialists. So here goes! I invite comparison of the following with Ugaxpa, the name the Quapaw traditionally called themselves. Robert Myers Champaign, Illinois geocultural at yahoo.com *********************** Col C11A 66/fol. 236-256v. Fonds des Colonies, C11A, Correspondance Generale: Canada. The Centre des Archives d'Outre-Mer, Aix-en-Provence, France. "Denombrement des nations sauvages qui ont rapport au gouvernement du Canada...", 1736. ... "? [River] des missouris les missouris les okams oukamsce' [Kansa] les Sotos les Panis ..." *********************** Stephen Return Riggs, A Dakota-English Dictionary, ed. James Owen Dorsey, Department of the Interior, U. S. Geographical and Geological Survey of the Rocky Mountain Region, Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1890, pp. 359, 360. o'-kah, cont. of o'kaga; to the south. o'-ka-ga, n. the south. T., itokaga. o'-ka-ga, adv. southwards; down stream, since the streams in the Dakota country run southwards. T., itokaga; hutabya. *********************** James R. Walker, Lakota Belief and Ritual, eds. Raymond J. DeMallie and Elaine A. Jahner, Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1991, pp. 124-127. "The Four Winds, related by Red Rabbit. Recorded sometime 1896-1914 on the Pine Ridge Reservation, South Dakota. The Four Winds are wakan. They have their homes in the wet and the north and the east and south. In the west is a high mountain and on top of the mountain there is a flat place. This is where He of the West (Wiyohpeyate Wicasa) dwells. Sometmes he is called Yata.... Woziya is the North Wind. He is a giant with vicious disposition. What he touches grows cold and dies.... Wiyohiyanpa is the East Wind. In the mysterious language he is called Yanpa. Beyond the lands, in the waters is a flat island. This is the hoe of Yanpa. ... Itokaga is the South Wind. In the mysterious language he is called Ito and Okaga. His home is at that side of the earth where the sun stands when he has made half his journey over the world. His tipi is very large, and made of vines growing so closely that no rain or wind can ass through them. In this tipi it is always pleasant, though there is never a fire there. At the rear of the tipi, opposite the door is where Okaga rests. At the side of the tipi his woman, Wohpe, rests. Okaga makes beautiful things. He first made the flowers and the seeds. When Wohpe first came to his father's tipi she fell from the stars and she had a beautiful dress. Okaga learned from this dress to make beautiful things. HIs yonger brother, Yamni lives in his tipi. Yamni is small an dweak, and he does not work. But he is the messenger for many of the supernatural people. Okaga is the giver of life. The water fowls and the meadow-larks are his akicita. The cranes are his criers. His breath is warm and brings good weather. He is ever kind, his heart is good towards all, so that it is not necessary to invoke him to get his help. His only contention is with his brother Woziya, who tried to steal his woman. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Fri Jul 13 16:34:28 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:34:28 -0500 Subject: SYMBOLS Message-ID: Steve: Instead of working on my IOM Dictionary entries, I waste this morning time exploring the pre-MS-Vista Menus" tab. And I think "What is different now on my old classic menu. So interestingly, I find under "Menus" >Insert > Symbols > More Symbols.....Letters for the prominent alphabets of the world, i.e., Latin, Greek-Coptic, Russian, Arabic, and misc. drawing lines, and other stuff I am not recognizing, ....and then this... the glottal stop and the enge (elongated tailed "n"), which I am printing below this line to see if they make it to your PC. ˀηŋ These same symbols above and those alphabets used to be in the font character maps under the previous system. Perhaps they still are, but I am not checking it out now. There in the maps, they showed keying in code(s) and how to make a short key insert which I never attempted. What is significant here IS... They are listed as "Unicode". In short, this is a world wide font set to eliminate the world wide problem we've experienced locally, namely, using a set of fonts with accented (stressed) vowels and various special character fonts in the course of our document files, sending those files to another PC user, who receives them corrupted or with a substituted font such as the deutsche esetz (spelling?), i.e., the German letter for a double "s", as in "Nuss (nut)". Let me know if these arrive on your PC, as I am using the MENUS tab you place on the PC yesterday. If you receive them, it will be a phenomenal achievement for self, Rueben, and other assistants in the various Siouan Languages Prograns, and the double benefit will more be to enable more easily the requirement of DEL/ NSF/ ANA grants, and allow us to eliminate the need to transfer the Siouan Font files among ourselves. Well, at least for Ioway, Otoe-Missouria, anyway, and perhaps, Hochank/ Winnebago. Jimm P.S.: I am drawing my conclusions above based on my general abilities to accomplish the needs of my lexicology and bilingual texts projects, and without a clue to the implications and interfacing of the many vintages of PCs out there, and in particular, our MSWord/ Office '98-2003 applications with the recent MSVista Word/ Office. To date, I am aware of your counsel to avoid the automatic Vista extension added on to saved. doc files, which would preclude other PC users being able to open attached .doc files, and the fact of the loss of certain functions under the new Vista tabs. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmcbride at kawnation.com Fri Jul 13 17:52:49 2007 From: jmcbride at kawnation.com (Justin McBride) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:52:49 -0500 Subject: SYMBOLS Message-ID: Jimm, The UTF-8 characters you sent came through just fine on my email client. But if you're using a program such as Outlook Express, like me, once you change your email encoding to UTF-8, I've found that switching from Edit View to Source View or Preview View completely destroys the Unicode characters. Also be aware that not all Unicode characters are created equal. Some fonts, such as MS Arial Unicode, have what looks to be the whole Unicode set, from the extremely rare to the everyday. Some, though, such as Times New Roman, only have particular portions of it, and instead default to other more specialized fonts when some of the rarer Unicode symbols are used. So, for instance, I'm typing here in the sans serif font Arial, but when I use the superscript n, ⁿ, you'll notice that it has serifs on it. Why? It's because Arial has a slot for that character, and even accepts its entry, but doesn't actually have that character within its set (at least not when used in Outlook Express) That brings up another point. Different Microsoft applications handle Unicode placement differently. So, you get a series of strange happy face and musical symbols in the absolute lowest Unicode ranges on, say, MS Excel, but just squares and blanks on MS Word. Likewise, you can paste a huge string of Unicode characters into Outlook Express directly from Word, and only some will come through. There are also several different varieties of the Unicode, based on how many bits are used to code for the character. It can get pretty confusing the further into the technology you delve. You may recall that my paper for last year's Siouan Conference (SIOUAN LANGUAGE DOCUMENTATION IN THE AGE OF .MP3, UNICODE, AND XML) dealt briefly with placement of Unicode characters. Sadly, I was never able to get to the copier before the weekend was up at Billings, so no one got a copy of my paper, but here is an excerpt from it that you may find useful: I have found that keying in lengthy texts is made much easier by the use of a Unicode-compatible font containing all the necessary characters and a virtual keyboard to generate them in as few keystrokes as possible. Unicode is an international character standard with “a unique [code] number for every character, no matter what the platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language,” as well as space available for private character development (Unicode, Inc., 2006). Users can use the Unicode to produce a bewildering variety of arcane characters, such as ề, ʢ, and ȣ, without having to change fonts. It is, however, a font-dependent technology. I tend to prefer the fonts Arial Unicode MS, Lucida Sans Unicode, (which come prepackaged with Microsoft Office and Windows, respectively), and Gentium (available for free at www.sil.org), each of which has its own special uses but is perfectly capable of capturing Siouan. I use Tavultesoft Keyman 6.0 to access my Siouan Unicode keyboard on the fly (both are freely available at www.languagegeek.com). These latter tools take some getting used to, but now I can generate Kansa technical spellings only slightly slower than I can type English. The benefits of digital text are obvious: It can be easily generated, copied, edited, searched, or otherwise processed. It can be lifted from one application and dropped into another with minimal discomfort. Furthermore, the files themselves can be renamed or organized as needed. There are a variety of text files and formats to choose from, and even the most basic plain text editors (such as the standard Notepad or TextEdit programs that come prepackaged with new PCs or Macintosh models, respectively) are now Unicode-compatible with slight nudging from the user. I hope this helps, and that all is well with you and your family. Oh, and thanks again for the postcard of Bruce Cass. I hung it up in my office window facing the hall, so that visitors to the building can see it before they come in my office. -Justin McBride ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimm GoodTracks To: Steve Ellsworth Cc: Jimm ThigrePi ; Patt ; RuEBEN AxeweHu Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 11:34 AM Subject: SYMBOLS Steve: Instead of working on my IOM Dictionary entries, I waste this morning time exploring the pre-MS-Vista Menus" tab. And I think "What is different now on my old classic menu. So interestingly, I find under "Menus" >Insert > Symbols > More Symbols.....Letters for the prominent alphabets of the world, i.e., Latin, Greek-Coptic, Russian, Arabic, and misc. drawing lines, and other stuff I am not recognizing, ....and then this... the glottal stop and the enge (elongated tailed "n"), which I am printing below this line to see if they make it to your PC. ˀηŋ These same symbols above and those alphabets used to be in the font character maps under the previous system. Perhaps they still are, but I am not checking it out now. There in the maps, they showed keying in code(s) and how to make a short key insert which I never attempted. What is significant here IS... They are listed as "Unicode". In short, this is a world wide font set to eliminate the world wide problem we've experienced locally, namely, using a set of fonts with accented (stressed) vowels and various special character fonts in the course of our document files, sending those files to another PC user, who receives them corrupted or with a substituted font such as the deutsche esetz (spelling?), i.e., the German letter for a double "s", as in "Nuss (nut)". Let me know if these arrive on your PC, as I am using the MENUS tab you place on the PC yesterday. If you receive them, it will be a phenomenal achievement for self, Rueben, and other assistants in the various Siouan Languages Prograns, and the double benefit will more be to enable more easily the requirement of DEL/ NSF/ ANA grants, and allow us to eliminate the need to transfer the Siouan Font files among ourselves. Well, at least for Ioway, Otoe-Missouria, anyway, and perhaps, Hochank/ Winnebago. Jimm P.S.: I am drawing my conclusions above based on my general abilities to accomplish the needs of my lexicology and bilingual texts projects, and without a clue to the implications and interfacing of the many vintages of PCs out there, and in particular, our MSWord/ Office '98-2003 applications with the recent MSVista Word/ Office. To date, I am aware of your counsel to avoid the automatic Vista extension added on to saved. doc files, which would preclude other PC users being able to open attached .doc files, and the fact of the loss of certain functions under the new Vista tabs. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Fri Jul 13 18:47:43 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:47:43 -0500 Subject: SYMBOLS In-Reply-To: <003d01c7c576$a312f590$1f21a8c0@LANGDIRECTOR> Message-ID: Justin: Steve bears out in confirmation of what you have just said. The glottal stop and enge appeared on his PC in mostly foreign characters -- at least foreign to me. His contnued suggestion of using adobe .pdf files with our fonts, whatever our fonts that we use, being embedded in the .pdf file(s) and sent along with the attached file(s) has been my past vehicle to send files when I wish them to arrive and be viewed as I sent them. Further, from what you say, it seems the goal of Unicode will be thwarted via the hope of simple conveyance over the net, weather it is Email or Attachment of docs via EM. He states... Jimm, For the record, on my Eudora email client your characters look like this: ˀηŋ If everyone used the same version of Windows and the same version of Word and the same version of Windows (e)Mail then maybe you could just use the unicode fonts. But we don't all use the same kinds of computers and software so that making sure what you send/supply to someone else to view on his/her computer actually appears as you want is a real trick. I'm presuming that you want your dictionary to be used by as wide a range of people as possible, not just those who have a specific kind of computer or software. To make a long story short, using Adobe Acrobat (.pdf) files is the answer to this fairly complex problem. Even though Adobe Reader has gone through a number of revisions and updates in the past 10 years, a chapter from your dictionary can still be viewed correctly in .pdf format on what is now the somewhat obsolete version 5 of Adobe Reader, a version that will work with 10 year old versions of Windows. Using the older Word format for your work-in-progress helps to insure that your collaborators will not have to purchase the latest version of MS Office. For example, if you want someone else in your own household to use your old computer system to edit dictionary chapters, or you find some student with an older copy of Word willing to help out that is only possible if you continue to use the older Word file format. My cynical side says that the main reason Microsoft adopted this newer file format is so that they can force more people to buy the newer version... ----- Original Message ----- From: Justin McBride To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 12:52 PM Subject: Re: SYMBOLS Jimm, The UTF-8 characters you sent came through just fine on my email client. But if you're using a program such as Outlook Express, like me, once you change your email encoding to UTF-8, I've found that switching from Edit View to Source View or Preview View completely destroys the Unicode characters. Also be aware that not all Unicode characters are created equal. Some fonts, such as MS Arial Unicode, have what looks to be the whole Unicode set, from the extremely rare to the everyday. Some, though, such as Times New Roman, only have particular portions of it, and instead default to other more specialized fonts when some of the rarer Unicode symbols are used. So, for instance, I'm typing here in the sans serif font Arial, but when I use the superscript n, ⁿ, you'll notice that it has serifs on it. Why? It's because Arial has a slot for that character, and even accepts its entry, but doesn't actually have that character within its set (at least not when used in Outlook Express) That brings up another point. Different Microsoft applications handle Unicode placement differently. So, you get a series of strange happy face and musical symbols in the absolute lowest Unicode ranges on, say, MS Excel, but just squares and blanks on MS Word. Likewise, you can paste a huge string of Unicode characters into Outlook Express directly from Word, and only some will come through. There are also several different varieties of the Unicode, based on how many bits are used to code for the character. It can get pretty confusing the further into the technology you delve. You may recall that my paper for last year's Siouan Conference (SIOUAN LANGUAGE DOCUMENTATION IN THE AGE OF .MP3, UNICODE, AND XML) dealt briefly with placement of Unicode characters. Sadly, I was never able to get to the copier before the weekend was up at Billings, so no one got a copy of my paper, but here is an excerpt from it that you may find useful: I have found that keying in lengthy texts is made much easier by the use of a Unicode-compatible font containing all the necessary characters and a virtual keyboard to generate them in as few keystrokes as possible. Unicode is an international character standard with “a unique [code] number for every character, no matter what the platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language,” as well as space available for private character development (Unicode, Inc., 2006). Users can use the Unicode to produce a bewildering variety of arcane characters, such as ề, ʢ, and ȣ, without having to change fonts. It is, however, a font-dependent technology. I tend to prefer the fonts Arial Unicode MS, Lucida Sans Unicode, (which come prepackaged with Microsoft Office and Windows, respectively), and Gentium (available for free at www.sil.org), each of which has its own special uses but is perfectly capable of capturing Siouan. I use Tavultesoft Keyman 6.0 to access my Siouan Unicode keyboard on the fly (both are freely available at www.languagegeek.com). These latter tools take some getting used to, but now I can generate Kansa technical spellings only slightly slower than I can type English. The benefits of digital text are obvious: It can be easily generated, copied, edited, searched, or otherwise processed. It can be lifted from one application and dropped into another with minimal discomfort. Furthermore, the files themselves can be renamed or organized as needed. There are a variety of text files and formats to choose from, and even the most basic plain text editors (such as the standard Notepad or TextEdit programs that come prepackaged with new PCs or Macintosh models, respectively) are now Unicode-compatible with slight nudging from the user. I hope this helps, and that all is well with you and your family. Oh, and thanks again for the postcard of Bruce Cass. I hung it up in my office window facing the hall, so that visitors to the building can see it before they come in my office. -Justin McBride ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimm GoodTracks To: Steve Ellsworth Cc: Jimm ThigrePi ; Patt ; RuEBEN AxeweHu Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 11:34 AM Subject: SYMBOLS Steve: Instead of working on my IOM Dictionary entries, I waste this morning time exploring the pre-MS-Vista Menus" tab. And I think "What is different now on my old classic menu. So interestingly, I find under "Menus" >Insert > Symbols > More Symbols.....Letters for the prominent alphabets of the world, i.e., Latin, Greek-Coptic, Russian, Arabic, and misc. drawing lines, and other stuff I am not recognizing, ....and then this... the glottal stop and the enge (elongated tailed "n"), which I am printing below this line to see if they make it to your PC. ˀηŋ These same symbols above and those alphabets used to be in the font character maps under the previous system. Perhaps they still are, but I am not checking it out now. There in the maps, they showed keying in code(s) and how to make a short key insert which I never attempted. What is significant here IS... They are listed as "Unicode". In short, this is a world wide font set to eliminate the world wide problem we've experienced locally, namely, using a set of fonts with accented (stressed) vowels and various special character fonts in the course of our document files, sending those files to another PC user, who receives them corrupted or with a substituted font such as the deutsche esetz (spelling?), i.e., the German letter for a double "s", as in "Nuss (nut)". Let me know if these arrive on your PC, as I am using the MENUS tab you place on the PC yesterday. If you receive them, it will be a phenomenal achievement for self, Rueben, and other assistants in the various Siouan Languages Prograns, and the double benefit will more be to enable more easily the requirement of DEL/ NSF/ ANA grants, and allow us to eliminate the need to transfer the Siouan Font files among ourselves. Well, at least for Ioway, Otoe-Missouria, anyway, and perhaps, Hochank/ Winnebago. Jimm P.S.: I am drawing my conclusions above based on my general abilities to accomplish the needs of my lexicology and bilingual texts projects, and without a clue to the implications and interfacing of the many vintages of PCs out there, and in particular, our MSWord/ Office '98-2003 applications with the recent MSVista Word/ Office. To date, I am aware of your counsel to avoid the automatic Vista extension added on to saved. doc files, which would preclude other PC users being able to open attached .doc files, and the fact of the loss of certain functions under the new Vista tabs. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.4/898 - Release Date: 7/12/2007 4:08 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Fri Jul 13 20:12:23 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:12:23 -0500 Subject: SYMBOLS Message-ID: Jimm, Yeah, you definitely want to convert to Unicode. it comes thru fine. Your correspondents can set their email programs to be able to read it. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Fri 7/13/2007 11:34 AM To: Steve Ellsworth Cc: Jimm ThigrePi; Patt; RuEBEN AxeweHu Subject: SYMBOLS Steve: Instead of working on my IOM Dictionary entries, I waste this morning time exploring the pre-MS-Vista Menus" tab. And I think "What is different now on my old classic menu. So interestingly, I find under "Menus" >Insert > Symbols > More Symbols.....Letters for the prominent alphabets of the world, i.e., Latin, Greek-Coptic, Russian, Arabic, and misc. drawing lines, and other stuff I am not recognizing, ....and then this... the glottal stop and the enge (elongated tailed "n"), which I am printing below this line to see if they make it to your PC. ??? These same symbols above and those alphabets used to be in the font character maps under the previous system. Perhaps they still are, but I am not checking it out now. There in the maps, they showed keying in code(s) and how to make a short key insert which I never attempted. What is significant here IS... They are listed as "Unicode". In short, this is a world wide font set to eliminate the world wide problem we've experienced locally, namely, using a set of fonts with accented (stressed) vowels and various special character fonts in the course of our document files, sending those files to another PC user, who receives them corrupted or with a substituted font such as the deutsche esetz (spelling?), i.e., the German letter for a double "s", as in "Nuss (nut)". Let me know if these arrive on your PC, as I am using the MENUS tab you place on the PC yesterday. If you receive them, it will be a phenomenal achievement for self, Rueben, and other assistants in the various Siouan Languages Prograns, and the double benefit will more be to enable more easily the requirement of DEL/ NSF/ ANA grants, and allow us to eliminate the need to transfer the Siouan Font files among ourselves. Well, at least for Ioway, Otoe-Missouria, anyway, and perhaps, Hochank/ Winnebago. Jimm P.S.: I am drawing my conclusions above based on my general abilities to accomplish the needs of my lexicology and bilingual texts projects, and without a clue to the implications and interfacing of the many vintages of PCs out there, and in particular, our MSWord/ Office '98-2003 applications with the recent MSVista Word/ Office. To date, I am aware of your counsel to avoid the automatic Vista extension added on to saved. doc files, which would preclude other PC users being able to open attached .doc files, and the fact of the loss of certain functions under the new Vista tabs. From ahartley at d.umn.edu Fri Jul 13 23:23:44 2007 From: ahartley at d.umn.edu (Alan H. Hartley) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:23:44 -0500 Subject: SYMBOLS In-Reply-To: <96F90F57FEBA4AC5A6CE1252BFA3D876@JGHP> Message-ID: > ˀηŋ Jimm, These characters came through fine in my email program (Thunderbird v1.5 on Windows Vista) and were rendered correctly when I pasted them into a Word 2007 document. Likewise, I can copy, for example, Unicoded Arabic text from Wikipedia and paste it into Word. Not everyone right now can handle Unicode, but it has been making great strides and will soon (I think) underlie virtually all modern operating systems and their programs. Ask your correspondents to set their email programs' character encoding to Unicode (UTF-8), if your special characters don't display correctly under their default program setting. (My program automatically recognized your message as UTF-8.) Also, contrary to what people sometimes think, you don't have to compose your message in HTML to use Unicode: just use plain text in UTF-8. (When I use a special character in an outgoing message, Thunderbird recognizes that fact and when I click SEND asks me if I want to send the message in UTF-8.) Regards, Alan From ti at fa-kuan.muc.de Sat Jul 14 08:09:09 2007 From: ti at fa-kuan.muc.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Alfred_W._T=FCting ?=) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:09:09 +0200 Subject: SYMBOLS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It also displays well on my Mac OS X mail program (version 2.1). Alfred Am 13.07.2007 um 22:12 schrieb Rankin, Robert L: > Jimm, > > Yeah, you definitely want to convert to Unicode. it comes thru > fine. Your correspondents can set their email programs to be able > to read it. > > Bob > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks > Sent: Fri 7/13/2007 11:34 AM > To: Steve Ellsworth > Cc: Jimm ThigrePi; Patt; RuEBEN AxeweHu > Subject: SYMBOLS > > > Steve: > Instead of working on my IOM Dictionary entries, I waste this > morning time exploring the pre-MS-Vista Menus" tab. And I think > "What is different now on my old classic menu. > > So interestingly, I find under "Menus" >Insert > Symbols > More > Symbols.....Letters for the prominent alphabets of the world, i.e., > Latin, Greek-Coptic, Russian, Arabic, and misc. drawing lines, and > other stuff I am not recognizing, ....and then this... > the glottal stop and the enge (elongated tailed "n"), which I am > printing below this line to see if they make it to your PC. > ??? > These same symbols above and those alphabets used to be in the font > character maps under the previous system. Perhaps they still are, > but I am not checking it out now. > There in the maps, they showed keying in code(s) and how to make a > short key insert which I never attempted. What is significant here > IS... > > They are listed as "Unicode". In short, this is a world wide font > set to eliminate the world wide problem we've experienced locally, > namely, using a set of fonts with accented (stressed) vowels and > various special character fonts in the course of our document > files, sending those files to another PC user, who receives them > corrupted or with a substituted font such as the deutsche esetz > (spelling?), i.e., the German letter for a double "s", as in "Nuss > (nut)". > > Let me know if these arrive on your PC, as I am using the MENUS tab > you place on the PC yesterday. If you receive them, it will be a > phenomenal achievement for self, Rueben, and other assistants in > the various Siouan Languages Prograns, and the double benefit will > more be to enable more easily the requirement of DEL/ NSF/ ANA > grants, and allow us to eliminate the need to transfer the Siouan > Font files among ourselves. Well, at least for Ioway, Otoe- > Missouria, anyway, and perhaps, Hochank/ Winnebago. > Jimm > > P.S.: I am drawing my conclusions above based on my general > abilities to accomplish the needs of my lexicology and bilingual > texts projects, and without a clue to the implications and > interfacing of the many vintages of PCs out there, and in > particular, our MSWord/ Office '98-2003 applications with the > recent MSVista Word/ Office. > To date, I am aware of your counsel to avoid the automatic Vista > extension added on to saved. doc files, which would preclude other > PC users being able to open attached .doc files, and the fact of > the loss of certain functions under the new Vista tabs. > From rankin at ku.edu Mon Jul 16 21:05:05 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:05:05 -0500 Subject: FW: question to R.Rankin Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I received this from a scholar in Italy. I'm sending it along to the list since many of you have far better understanding of Dakota than I. Best, Bob ________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: claudio cavani [mailto:claudio.cavani at fastwebnet.it] Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:22 AM To: linguistics at ku.edu Subject: question to R.Rankin Dear Rankin, I'm reading"La Description de la Lousiane"of L.Hennepin,ed.1683 and I found on page 248 this phrase:Taketchiabihen,that G.Shea in his work"A description of Louisiana,pag.230,reads"takn kapi hè"or"takn kipa He"as from Dakota language.My proposal is instead:Toket(u) echiyapi he?meaning"How They call that?What do You Think?Thank you for your patience.Claudio Cavani. From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 16 22:55:31 2007 From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:55:31 +0100 Subject: FW: question to R.Rankin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Even more likely to be tak(u) echiyapi he 'what do they call it? for taketchiabihen. One of the others takn tapi he looks like taku khapi he 'what do they mean (by it)?' I'm not clear what the relationship of the Hennepin form is to the Shea forms though. Is one an interpretation of the other? Bruce "Rankin, Robert L" wrote: Dear Colleagues, I received this from a scholar in Italy. I'm sending it along to the list since many of you have far better understanding of Dakota than I. Best, Bob ________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: claudio cavani [mailto:claudio.cavani at fastwebnet.it] Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:22 AM To: linguistics at ku.edu Subject: question to R.Rankin Dear Rankin, I'm reading"La Description de la Lousiane"of L.Hennepin,ed.1683 and I found on page 248 this phrase:Taketchiabihen,that G.Shea in his work"A description of Louisiana,pag.230,reads"takn kapi hè"or"takn kipa He"as from Dakota language.My proposal is instead:Toket(u) echiyapi he?meaning"How They call that?What do You Think?Thank you for your patience.Claudio Cavani. --------------------------------- Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Mon Jul 23 20:24:36 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:24:36 -0500 Subject: Mid America Conference -- Sioual sessions, additional info. Message-ID: The Linguistics Dept. here at KU is a bit of an uproar at the moment since our Chair, Sara Rosen, has just been appointed Dean of the graduate school also. Since she is suddenly very busy, the abstract deadline for MALC has been extended until mid-August. I'll get you the exact date when I have it myself, but you have until about the 20th. The department is going to post a revised announcement on Linguist List, so you can look there too. I hope a number of you will submit abstracts. Given the extension, I might even be able to come up with a paper myself. :-) Best, Bob From rankin at ku.edu Tue Jul 31 16:16:01 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:16:01 -0500 Subject: Conference. Message-ID: The Mid-America Linguistics Conference, hopefully with lots of Siouan papers, has extended its abstract deadline until August 22nd. The formal announcement should appear on Linguist List shortly. They have established an email address especially for abstracts: malc at ku.edu. Don't worry if you already sent your abstract to Sara Rosen or Mircea Sauciuc -- they'll make sure it gets to the proper place. I hope to see all of you in October. Bob From rankin at ku.edu Thu Jul 5 21:06:59 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 16:06:59 -0500 Subject: Siouanist meeting in October. Message-ID: Just a reminder that the abstract deadline for MALC Siouan papers for the meeting at KU in late October is coming up in about 3 weeks. Abstracts need to be sent to Sara Rosen at KU before August 1st. The procedures are a little more formal that our normal Siouan Conference ones. If anyone needs to see the guidelines again, I can post them on request, or you can check them out on Linguist List under Mid-America Linguistics Conference. Bob From geocultural at yahoo.com Tue Jul 10 04:56:12 2007 From: geocultural at yahoo.com (Robert Myers) Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 11:56:12 +0700 Subject: Okams, Okaga, Ugaxpa Message-ID: I'm new to the Siouan list and am hoping to share historical materials I've been collecting for years pertaining to Siouan-speaking peoples. I'm not a linguist but am hoping some of these materials will be helpful to specialists. So here goes! I invite comparison of the following with Ugaxpa, the name the Quapaw traditionally called themselves. Robert Myers Champaign, Illinois geocultural at yahoo.com *********************** Col C11A 66/fol. 236-256v. Fonds des Colonies, C11A, Correspondance Generale: Canada. The Centre des Archives d'Outre-Mer, Aix-en-Provence, France. "Denombrement des nations sauvages qui ont rapport au gouvernement du Canada...", 1736. ... "? [River] des missouris les missouris les okams oukamsce' [Kansa] les Sotos les Panis ..." *********************** Stephen Return Riggs, A Dakota-English Dictionary, ed. James Owen Dorsey, Department of the Interior, U. S. Geographical and Geological Survey of the Rocky Mountain Region, Washington, D.C.: Government Printing Office, 1890, pp. 359, 360. o'-kah, cont. of o'kaga; to the south. o'-ka-ga, n. the south. T., itokaga. o'-ka-ga, adv. southwards; down stream, since the streams in the Dakota country run southwards. T., itokaga; hutabya. *********************** James R. Walker, Lakota Belief and Ritual, eds. Raymond J. DeMallie and Elaine A. Jahner, Lincoln: University of Nebraska Press, 1991, pp. 124-127. "The Four Winds, related by Red Rabbit. Recorded sometime 1896-1914 on the Pine Ridge Reservation, South Dakota. The Four Winds are wakan. They have their homes in the wet and the north and the east and south. In the west is a high mountain and on top of the mountain there is a flat place. This is where He of the West (Wiyohpeyate Wicasa) dwells. Sometmes he is called Yata.... Woziya is the North Wind. He is a giant with vicious disposition. What he touches grows cold and dies.... Wiyohiyanpa is the East Wind. In the mysterious language he is called Yanpa. Beyond the lands, in the waters is a flat island. This is the hoe of Yanpa. ... Itokaga is the South Wind. In the mysterious language he is called Ito and Okaga. His home is at that side of the earth where the sun stands when he has made half his journey over the world. His tipi is very large, and made of vines growing so closely that no rain or wind can ass through them. In this tipi it is always pleasant, though there is never a fire there. At the rear of the tipi, opposite the door is where Okaga rests. At the side of the tipi his woman, Wohpe, rests. Okaga makes beautiful things. He first made the flowers and the seeds. When Wohpe first came to his father's tipi she fell from the stars and she had a beautiful dress. Okaga learned from this dress to make beautiful things. HIs yonger brother, Yamni lives in his tipi. Yamni is small an dweak, and he does not work. But he is the messenger for many of the supernatural people. Okaga is the giver of life. The water fowls and the meadow-larks are his akicita. The cranes are his criers. His breath is warm and brings good weather. He is ever kind, his heart is good towards all, so that it is not necessary to invoke him to get his help. His only contention is with his brother Woziya, who tried to steal his woman. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Fri Jul 13 16:34:28 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:34:28 -0500 Subject: SYMBOLS Message-ID: Steve: Instead of working on my IOM Dictionary entries, I waste this morning time exploring the pre-MS-Vista Menus" tab. And I think "What is different now on my old classic menu. So interestingly, I find under "Menus" >Insert > Symbols > More Symbols.....Letters for the prominent alphabets of the world, i.e., Latin, Greek-Coptic, Russian, Arabic, and misc. drawing lines, and other stuff I am not recognizing, ....and then this... the glottal stop and the enge (elongated tailed "n"), which I am printing below this line to see if they make it to your PC. ??? These same symbols above and those alphabets used to be in the font character maps under the previous system. Perhaps they still are, but I am not checking it out now. There in the maps, they showed keying in code(s) and how to make a short key insert which I never attempted. What is significant here IS... They are listed as "Unicode". In short, this is a world wide font set to eliminate the world wide problem we've experienced locally, namely, using a set of fonts with accented (stressed) vowels and various special character fonts in the course of our document files, sending those files to another PC user, who receives them corrupted or with a substituted font such as the deutsche esetz (spelling?), i.e., the German letter for a double "s", as in "Nuss (nut)". Let me know if these arrive on your PC, as I am using the MENUS tab you place on the PC yesterday. If you receive them, it will be a phenomenal achievement for self, Rueben, and other assistants in the various Siouan Languages Prograns, and the double benefit will more be to enable more easily the requirement of DEL/ NSF/ ANA grants, and allow us to eliminate the need to transfer the Siouan Font files among ourselves. Well, at least for Ioway, Otoe-Missouria, anyway, and perhaps, Hochank/ Winnebago. Jimm P.S.: I am drawing my conclusions above based on my general abilities to accomplish the needs of my lexicology and bilingual texts projects, and without a clue to the implications and interfacing of the many vintages of PCs out there, and in particular, our MSWord/ Office '98-2003 applications with the recent MSVista Word/ Office. To date, I am aware of your counsel to avoid the automatic Vista extension added on to saved. doc files, which would preclude other PC users being able to open attached .doc files, and the fact of the loss of certain functions under the new Vista tabs. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmcbride at kawnation.com Fri Jul 13 17:52:49 2007 From: jmcbride at kawnation.com (Justin McBride) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:52:49 -0500 Subject: SYMBOLS Message-ID: Jimm, The UTF-8 characters you sent came through just fine on my email client. But if you're using a program such as Outlook Express, like me, once you change your email encoding to UTF-8, I've found that switching from Edit View to Source View or Preview View completely destroys the Unicode characters. Also be aware that not all Unicode characters are created equal. Some fonts, such as MS Arial Unicode, have what looks to be the whole Unicode set, from the extremely rare to the everyday. Some, though, such as Times New Roman, only have particular portions of it, and instead default to other more specialized fonts when some of the rarer Unicode symbols are used. So, for instance, I'm typing here in the sans serif font Arial, but when I use the superscript n, ?, you'll notice that it has serifs on it. Why? It's because Arial has a slot for that character, and even accepts its entry, but doesn't actually have that character within its set (at least not when used in Outlook Express) That brings up another point. Different Microsoft applications handle Unicode placement differently. So, you get a series of strange happy face and musical symbols in the absolute lowest Unicode ranges on, say, MS Excel, but just squares and blanks on MS Word. Likewise, you can paste a huge string of Unicode characters into Outlook Express directly from Word, and only some will come through. There are also several different varieties of the Unicode, based on how many bits are used to code for the character. It can get pretty confusing the further into the technology you delve. You may recall that my paper for last year's Siouan Conference (SIOUAN LANGUAGE DOCUMENTATION IN THE AGE OF .MP3, UNICODE, AND XML) dealt briefly with placement of Unicode characters. Sadly, I was never able to get to the copier before the weekend was up at Billings, so no one got a copy of my paper, but here is an excerpt from it that you may find useful: I have found that keying in lengthy texts is made much easier by the use of a Unicode-compatible font containing all the necessary characters and a virtual keyboard to generate them in as few keystrokes as possible. Unicode is an international character standard with ?a unique [code] number for every character, no matter what the platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language,? as well as space available for private character development (Unicode, Inc., 2006). Users can use the Unicode to produce a bewildering variety of arcane characters, such as ?, ?, and ?, without having to change fonts. It is, however, a font-dependent technology. I tend to prefer the fonts Arial Unicode MS, Lucida Sans Unicode, (which come prepackaged with Microsoft Office and Windows, respectively), and Gentium (available for free at www.sil.org), each of which has its own special uses but is perfectly capable of capturing Siouan. I use Tavultesoft Keyman 6.0 to access my Siouan Unicode keyboard on the fly (both are freely available at www.languagegeek.com). These latter tools take some getting used to, but now I can generate Kansa technical spellings only slightly slower than I can type English. The benefits of digital text are obvious: It can be easily generated, copied, edited, searched, or otherwise processed. It can be lifted from one application and dropped into another with minimal discomfort. Furthermore, the files themselves can be renamed or organized as needed. There are a variety of text files and formats to choose from, and even the most basic plain text editors (such as the standard Notepad or TextEdit programs that come prepackaged with new PCs or Macintosh models, respectively) are now Unicode-compatible with slight nudging from the user. I hope this helps, and that all is well with you and your family. Oh, and thanks again for the postcard of Bruce Cass. I hung it up in my office window facing the hall, so that visitors to the building can see it before they come in my office. -Justin McBride ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimm GoodTracks To: Steve Ellsworth Cc: Jimm ThigrePi ; Patt ; RuEBEN AxeweHu Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 11:34 AM Subject: SYMBOLS Steve: Instead of working on my IOM Dictionary entries, I waste this morning time exploring the pre-MS-Vista Menus" tab. And I think "What is different now on my old classic menu. So interestingly, I find under "Menus" >Insert > Symbols > More Symbols.....Letters for the prominent alphabets of the world, i.e., Latin, Greek-Coptic, Russian, Arabic, and misc. drawing lines, and other stuff I am not recognizing, ....and then this... the glottal stop and the enge (elongated tailed "n"), which I am printing below this line to see if they make it to your PC. ??? These same symbols above and those alphabets used to be in the font character maps under the previous system. Perhaps they still are, but I am not checking it out now. There in the maps, they showed keying in code(s) and how to make a short key insert which I never attempted. What is significant here IS... They are listed as "Unicode". In short, this is a world wide font set to eliminate the world wide problem we've experienced locally, namely, using a set of fonts with accented (stressed) vowels and various special character fonts in the course of our document files, sending those files to another PC user, who receives them corrupted or with a substituted font such as the deutsche esetz (spelling?), i.e., the German letter for a double "s", as in "Nuss (nut)". Let me know if these arrive on your PC, as I am using the MENUS tab you place on the PC yesterday. If you receive them, it will be a phenomenal achievement for self, Rueben, and other assistants in the various Siouan Languages Prograns, and the double benefit will more be to enable more easily the requirement of DEL/ NSF/ ANA grants, and allow us to eliminate the need to transfer the Siouan Font files among ourselves. Well, at least for Ioway, Otoe-Missouria, anyway, and perhaps, Hochank/ Winnebago. Jimm P.S.: I am drawing my conclusions above based on my general abilities to accomplish the needs of my lexicology and bilingual texts projects, and without a clue to the implications and interfacing of the many vintages of PCs out there, and in particular, our MSWord/ Office '98-2003 applications with the recent MSVista Word/ Office. To date, I am aware of your counsel to avoid the automatic Vista extension added on to saved. doc files, which would preclude other PC users being able to open attached .doc files, and the fact of the loss of certain functions under the new Vista tabs. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Fri Jul 13 18:47:43 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 13:47:43 -0500 Subject: SYMBOLS In-Reply-To: <003d01c7c576$a312f590$1f21a8c0@LANGDIRECTOR> Message-ID: Justin: Steve bears out in confirmation of what you have just said. The glottal stop and enge appeared on his PC in mostly foreign characters -- at least foreign to me. His contnued suggestion of using adobe .pdf files with our fonts, whatever our fonts that we use, being embedded in the .pdf file(s) and sent along with the attached file(s) has been my past vehicle to send files when I wish them to arrive and be viewed as I sent them. Further, from what you say, it seems the goal of Unicode will be thwarted via the hope of simple conveyance over the net, weather it is Email or Attachment of docs via EM. He states... Jimm, For the record, on my Eudora email client your characters look like this: ?????? If everyone used the same version of Windows and the same version of Word and the same version of Windows (e)Mail then maybe you could just use the unicode fonts. But we don't all use the same kinds of computers and software so that making sure what you send/supply to someone else to view on his/her computer actually appears as you want is a real trick. I'm presuming that you want your dictionary to be used by as wide a range of people as possible, not just those who have a specific kind of computer or software. To make a long story short, using Adobe Acrobat (.pdf) files is the answer to this fairly complex problem. Even though Adobe Reader has gone through a number of revisions and updates in the past 10 years, a chapter from your dictionary can still be viewed correctly in .pdf format on what is now the somewhat obsolete version 5 of Adobe Reader, a version that will work with 10 year old versions of Windows. Using the older Word format for your work-in-progress helps to insure that your collaborators will not have to purchase the latest version of MS Office. For example, if you want someone else in your own household to use your old computer system to edit dictionary chapters, or you find some student with an older copy of Word willing to help out that is only possible if you continue to use the older Word file format. My cynical side says that the main reason Microsoft adopted this newer file format is so that they can force more people to buy the newer version... ----- Original Message ----- From: Justin McBride To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 12:52 PM Subject: Re: SYMBOLS Jimm, The UTF-8 characters you sent came through just fine on my email client. But if you're using a program such as Outlook Express, like me, once you change your email encoding to UTF-8, I've found that switching from Edit View to Source View or Preview View completely destroys the Unicode characters. Also be aware that not all Unicode characters are created equal. Some fonts, such as MS Arial Unicode, have what looks to be the whole Unicode set, from the extremely rare to the everyday. Some, though, such as Times New Roman, only have particular portions of it, and instead default to other more specialized fonts when some of the rarer Unicode symbols are used. So, for instance, I'm typing here in the sans serif font Arial, but when I use the superscript n, ?, you'll notice that it has serifs on it. Why? It's because Arial has a slot for that character, and even accepts its entry, but doesn't actually have that character within its set (at least not when used in Outlook Express) That brings up another point. Different Microsoft applications handle Unicode placement differently. So, you get a series of strange happy face and musical symbols in the absolute lowest Unicode ranges on, say, MS Excel, but just squares and blanks on MS Word. Likewise, you can paste a huge string of Unicode characters into Outlook Express directly from Word, and only some will come through. There are also several different varieties of the Unicode, based on how many bits are used to code for the character. It can get pretty confusing the further into the technology you delve. You may recall that my paper for last year's Siouan Conference (SIOUAN LANGUAGE DOCUMENTATION IN THE AGE OF .MP3, UNICODE, AND XML) dealt briefly with placement of Unicode characters. Sadly, I was never able to get to the copier before the weekend was up at Billings, so no one got a copy of my paper, but here is an excerpt from it that you may find useful: I have found that keying in lengthy texts is made much easier by the use of a Unicode-compatible font containing all the necessary characters and a virtual keyboard to generate them in as few keystrokes as possible. Unicode is an international character standard with ?a unique [code] number for every character, no matter what the platform, no matter what the program, no matter what the language,? as well as space available for private character development (Unicode, Inc., 2006). Users can use the Unicode to produce a bewildering variety of arcane characters, such as ?, ?, and ?, without having to change fonts. It is, however, a font-dependent technology. I tend to prefer the fonts Arial Unicode MS, Lucida Sans Unicode, (which come prepackaged with Microsoft Office and Windows, respectively), and Gentium (available for free at www.sil.org), each of which has its own special uses but is perfectly capable of capturing Siouan. I use Tavultesoft Keyman 6.0 to access my Siouan Unicode keyboard on the fly (both are freely available at www.languagegeek.com). These latter tools take some getting used to, but now I can generate Kansa technical spellings only slightly slower than I can type English. The benefits of digital text are obvious: It can be easily generated, copied, edited, searched, or otherwise processed. It can be lifted from one application and dropped into another with minimal discomfort. Furthermore, the files themselves can be renamed or organized as needed. There are a variety of text files and formats to choose from, and even the most basic plain text editors (such as the standard Notepad or TextEdit programs that come prepackaged with new PCs or Macintosh models, respectively) are now Unicode-compatible with slight nudging from the user. I hope this helps, and that all is well with you and your family. Oh, and thanks again for the postcard of Bruce Cass. I hung it up in my office window facing the hall, so that visitors to the building can see it before they come in my office. -Justin McBride ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimm GoodTracks To: Steve Ellsworth Cc: Jimm ThigrePi ; Patt ; RuEBEN AxeweHu Sent: Friday, July 13, 2007 11:34 AM Subject: SYMBOLS Steve: Instead of working on my IOM Dictionary entries, I waste this morning time exploring the pre-MS-Vista Menus" tab. And I think "What is different now on my old classic menu. So interestingly, I find under "Menus" >Insert > Symbols > More Symbols.....Letters for the prominent alphabets of the world, i.e., Latin, Greek-Coptic, Russian, Arabic, and misc. drawing lines, and other stuff I am not recognizing, ....and then this... the glottal stop and the enge (elongated tailed "n"), which I am printing below this line to see if they make it to your PC. ??? These same symbols above and those alphabets used to be in the font character maps under the previous system. Perhaps they still are, but I am not checking it out now. There in the maps, they showed keying in code(s) and how to make a short key insert which I never attempted. What is significant here IS... They are listed as "Unicode". In short, this is a world wide font set to eliminate the world wide problem we've experienced locally, namely, using a set of fonts with accented (stressed) vowels and various special character fonts in the course of our document files, sending those files to another PC user, who receives them corrupted or with a substituted font such as the deutsche esetz (spelling?), i.e., the German letter for a double "s", as in "Nuss (nut)". Let me know if these arrive on your PC, as I am using the MENUS tab you place on the PC yesterday. If you receive them, it will be a phenomenal achievement for self, Rueben, and other assistants in the various Siouan Languages Prograns, and the double benefit will more be to enable more easily the requirement of DEL/ NSF/ ANA grants, and allow us to eliminate the need to transfer the Siouan Font files among ourselves. Well, at least for Ioway, Otoe-Missouria, anyway, and perhaps, Hochank/ Winnebago. Jimm P.S.: I am drawing my conclusions above based on my general abilities to accomplish the needs of my lexicology and bilingual texts projects, and without a clue to the implications and interfacing of the many vintages of PCs out there, and in particular, our MSWord/ Office '98-2003 applications with the recent MSVista Word/ Office. To date, I am aware of your counsel to avoid the automatic Vista extension added on to saved. doc files, which would preclude other PC users being able to open attached .doc files, and the fact of the loss of certain functions under the new Vista tabs. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.476 / Virus Database: 269.10.4/898 - Release Date: 7/12/2007 4:08 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Fri Jul 13 20:12:23 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 15:12:23 -0500 Subject: SYMBOLS Message-ID: Jimm, Yeah, you definitely want to convert to Unicode. it comes thru fine. Your correspondents can set their email programs to be able to read it. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Fri 7/13/2007 11:34 AM To: Steve Ellsworth Cc: Jimm ThigrePi; Patt; RuEBEN AxeweHu Subject: SYMBOLS Steve: Instead of working on my IOM Dictionary entries, I waste this morning time exploring the pre-MS-Vista Menus" tab. And I think "What is different now on my old classic menu. So interestingly, I find under "Menus" >Insert > Symbols > More Symbols.....Letters for the prominent alphabets of the world, i.e., Latin, Greek-Coptic, Russian, Arabic, and misc. drawing lines, and other stuff I am not recognizing, ....and then this... the glottal stop and the enge (elongated tailed "n"), which I am printing below this line to see if they make it to your PC. ??? These same symbols above and those alphabets used to be in the font character maps under the previous system. Perhaps they still are, but I am not checking it out now. There in the maps, they showed keying in code(s) and how to make a short key insert which I never attempted. What is significant here IS... They are listed as "Unicode". In short, this is a world wide font set to eliminate the world wide problem we've experienced locally, namely, using a set of fonts with accented (stressed) vowels and various special character fonts in the course of our document files, sending those files to another PC user, who receives them corrupted or with a substituted font such as the deutsche esetz (spelling?), i.e., the German letter for a double "s", as in "Nuss (nut)". Let me know if these arrive on your PC, as I am using the MENUS tab you place on the PC yesterday. If you receive them, it will be a phenomenal achievement for self, Rueben, and other assistants in the various Siouan Languages Prograns, and the double benefit will more be to enable more easily the requirement of DEL/ NSF/ ANA grants, and allow us to eliminate the need to transfer the Siouan Font files among ourselves. Well, at least for Ioway, Otoe-Missouria, anyway, and perhaps, Hochank/ Winnebago. Jimm P.S.: I am drawing my conclusions above based on my general abilities to accomplish the needs of my lexicology and bilingual texts projects, and without a clue to the implications and interfacing of the many vintages of PCs out there, and in particular, our MSWord/ Office '98-2003 applications with the recent MSVista Word/ Office. To date, I am aware of your counsel to avoid the automatic Vista extension added on to saved. doc files, which would preclude other PC users being able to open attached .doc files, and the fact of the loss of certain functions under the new Vista tabs. From ahartley at d.umn.edu Fri Jul 13 23:23:44 2007 From: ahartley at d.umn.edu (Alan H. Hartley) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 18:23:44 -0500 Subject: SYMBOLS In-Reply-To: <96F90F57FEBA4AC5A6CE1252BFA3D876@JGHP> Message-ID: > ??? Jimm, These characters came through fine in my email program (Thunderbird v1.5 on Windows Vista) and were rendered correctly when I pasted them into a Word 2007 document. Likewise, I can copy, for example, Unicoded Arabic text from Wikipedia and paste it into Word. Not everyone right now can handle Unicode, but it has been making great strides and will soon (I think) underlie virtually all modern operating systems and their programs. Ask your correspondents to set their email programs' character encoding to Unicode (UTF-8), if your special characters don't display correctly under their default program setting. (My program automatically recognized your message as UTF-8.) Also, contrary to what people sometimes think, you don't have to compose your message in HTML to use Unicode: just use plain text in UTF-8. (When I use a special character in an outgoing message, Thunderbird recognizes that fact and when I click SEND asks me if I want to send the message in UTF-8.) Regards, Alan From ti at fa-kuan.muc.de Sat Jul 14 08:09:09 2007 From: ti at fa-kuan.muc.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q? Alfred_W._T=FCting ?=) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 10:09:09 +0200 Subject: SYMBOLS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It also displays well on my Mac OS X mail program (version 2.1). Alfred Am 13.07.2007 um 22:12 schrieb Rankin, Robert L: > Jimm, > > Yeah, you definitely want to convert to Unicode. it comes thru > fine. Your correspondents can set their email programs to be able > to read it. > > Bob > > ________________________________ > > From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks > Sent: Fri 7/13/2007 11:34 AM > To: Steve Ellsworth > Cc: Jimm ThigrePi; Patt; RuEBEN AxeweHu > Subject: SYMBOLS > > > Steve: > Instead of working on my IOM Dictionary entries, I waste this > morning time exploring the pre-MS-Vista Menus" tab. And I think > "What is different now on my old classic menu. > > So interestingly, I find under "Menus" >Insert > Symbols > More > Symbols.....Letters for the prominent alphabets of the world, i.e., > Latin, Greek-Coptic, Russian, Arabic, and misc. drawing lines, and > other stuff I am not recognizing, ....and then this... > the glottal stop and the enge (elongated tailed "n"), which I am > printing below this line to see if they make it to your PC. > ??? > These same symbols above and those alphabets used to be in the font > character maps under the previous system. Perhaps they still are, > but I am not checking it out now. > There in the maps, they showed keying in code(s) and how to make a > short key insert which I never attempted. What is significant here > IS... > > They are listed as "Unicode". In short, this is a world wide font > set to eliminate the world wide problem we've experienced locally, > namely, using a set of fonts with accented (stressed) vowels and > various special character fonts in the course of our document > files, sending those files to another PC user, who receives them > corrupted or with a substituted font such as the deutsche esetz > (spelling?), i.e., the German letter for a double "s", as in "Nuss > (nut)". > > Let me know if these arrive on your PC, as I am using the MENUS tab > you place on the PC yesterday. If you receive them, it will be a > phenomenal achievement for self, Rueben, and other assistants in > the various Siouan Languages Prograns, and the double benefit will > more be to enable more easily the requirement of DEL/ NSF/ ANA > grants, and allow us to eliminate the need to transfer the Siouan > Font files among ourselves. Well, at least for Ioway, Otoe- > Missouria, anyway, and perhaps, Hochank/ Winnebago. > Jimm > > P.S.: I am drawing my conclusions above based on my general > abilities to accomplish the needs of my lexicology and bilingual > texts projects, and without a clue to the implications and > interfacing of the many vintages of PCs out there, and in > particular, our MSWord/ Office '98-2003 applications with the > recent MSVista Word/ Office. > To date, I am aware of your counsel to avoid the automatic Vista > extension added on to saved. doc files, which would preclude other > PC users being able to open attached .doc files, and the fact of > the loss of certain functions under the new Vista tabs. > From rankin at ku.edu Mon Jul 16 21:05:05 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 16:05:05 -0500 Subject: FW: question to R.Rankin Message-ID: Dear Colleagues, I received this from a scholar in Italy. I'm sending it along to the list since many of you have far better understanding of Dakota than I. Best, Bob ________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: claudio cavani [mailto:claudio.cavani at fastwebnet.it] Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:22 AM To: linguistics at ku.edu Subject: question to R.Rankin Dear Rankin, I'm reading"La Description de la Lousiane"of L.Hennepin,ed.1683 and I found on page 248 this phrase:Taketchiabihen,that G.Shea in his work"A description of Louisiana,pag.230,reads"takn kapi h?"or"takn kipa He"as from Dakota language.My proposal is instead:Toket(u) echiyapi he?meaning"How They call that?What do You Think?Thank you for your patience.Claudio Cavani. From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk Mon Jul 16 22:55:31 2007 From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:55:31 +0100 Subject: FW: question to R.Rankin In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Even more likely to be tak(u) echiyapi he 'what do they call it? for taketchiabihen. One of the others takn tapi he looks like taku khapi he 'what do they mean (by it)?' I'm not clear what the relationship of the Hennepin form is to the Shea forms though. Is one an interpretation of the other? Bruce "Rankin, Robert L" wrote: Dear Colleagues, I received this from a scholar in Italy. I'm sending it along to the list since many of you have far better understanding of Dakota than I. Best, Bob ________________________________ -----Original Message----- From: claudio cavani [mailto:claudio.cavani at fastwebnet.it] Sent: Saturday, October 28, 2006 11:22 AM To: linguistics at ku.edu Subject: question to R.Rankin Dear Rankin, I'm reading"La Description de la Lousiane"of L.Hennepin,ed.1683 and I found on page 248 this phrase:Taketchiabihen,that G.Shea in his work"A description of Louisiana,pag.230,reads"takn kapi h?"or"takn kipa He"as from Dakota language.My proposal is instead:Toket(u) echiyapi he?meaning"How They call that?What do You Think?Thank you for your patience.Claudio Cavani. --------------------------------- Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Mon Jul 23 20:24:36 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:24:36 -0500 Subject: Mid America Conference -- Sioual sessions, additional info. Message-ID: The Linguistics Dept. here at KU is a bit of an uproar at the moment since our Chair, Sara Rosen, has just been appointed Dean of the graduate school also. Since she is suddenly very busy, the abstract deadline for MALC has been extended until mid-August. I'll get you the exact date when I have it myself, but you have until about the 20th. The department is going to post a revised announcement on Linguist List, so you can look there too. I hope a number of you will submit abstracts. Given the extension, I might even be able to come up with a paper myself. :-) Best, Bob From rankin at ku.edu Tue Jul 31 16:16:01 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:16:01 -0500 Subject: Conference. Message-ID: The Mid-America Linguistics Conference, hopefully with lots of Siouan papers, has extended its abstract deadline until August 22nd. The formal announcement should appear on Linguist List shortly. They have established an email address especially for abstracts: malc at ku.edu. Don't worry if you already sent your abstract to Sara Rosen or Mircea Sauciuc -- they'll make sure it gets to the proper place. I hope to see all of you in October. Bob