From marino at skyway.usask.ca  Mon May  7 06:24:57 2007
From: marino at skyway.usask.ca (Marino)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 00:24:57 -0600
Subject: SCLC 2007
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.002457.0600.>

  I am posting this message at  Randy Graczyk's suggestion:

At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend 
(and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon.  Do those of you who have 
been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances?  Please 
give a definite answer within the next two days.

Best regards,
Mary Marino


From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk  Mon May  7 10:26:34 2007
From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:26:34 +0100
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070507001821.02288e70@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.112634.0100.>

Dear Mary
I'm sorry to let you down, but find I cannot come this year because of work and domestic engagements.  I would like at some later date to come and visit you if possible as I have a sabbatical term next year.
yours
Bruce

Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca> wrote:   I am posting this message at  Randy Graczyk's suggestion:

At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend 
(and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon.  Do those of you who have 
been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances?  Please 
give a definite answer within the next two days.

Best regards,
Mary Marino



       
---------------------------------
 Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Tryit now.
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From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu  Mon May  7 14:20:22 2007
From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 09:20:22 -0500
Subject: SCLC 2007
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.092022.0500.>

Hi, Mary.  I've been waffling; hoping to come but needing other pieces
to fall into place before I could comit.   CLA looks great and I hate to
miss SCLC.  But it's a long trip at an awkward time; I won't have time
to drive, and I've probably waited too long to get decent plane fare. 
So -
 
It's really too bad, but I guess I'm not going to attend.    
 
Catherine

>>> marino at skyway.usask.ca 5/7/2007 1:24 AM >>>

  I am posting this message at  Randy Graczyk's suggestion:

At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend

(and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon.  Do those of you who
have 
been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances? 
Please 
give a definite answer within the next two days.

Best regards,
Mary Marino


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From rankin at ku.edu  Mon May  7 15:26:57 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 10:26:57 -0500
Subject: SCLC 2007
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.102657.0500.>

If others decide to come and give papers, I'll be there (and will have a talk or something interesting to discuss.)  I have not had time to put together the promised paper on comparative verb enclitics to complement my prefix comparisons last year, but there are various projects I'm working on.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Catherine Rudin
Sent: Mon 5/7/2007 9:20 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: SCLC 2007


Hi, Mary.  I've been waffling; hoping to come but needing other pieces to fall into place before I could comit.   CLA looks great and I hate to miss SCLC.  But it's a long trip at an awkward time; I won't have time to drive, and I've probably waited too long to get decent plane fare.  So -
 
It's really too bad, but I guess I'm not going to attend.    
 
Catherine

>>> marino at skyway.usask.ca 5/7/2007 1:24 AM >>>

  I am posting this message at  Randy Graczyk's suggestion:

At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend 
(and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon.  Do those of you who have 
been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances?  Please 
give a definite answer within the next two days.

Best regards,
Mary Marino


From Rgraczyk at aol.com  Mon May  7 15:43:35 2007
From: Rgraczyk at aol.com (Rgraczyk at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:43:35 EDT
Subject: SCLC 2007
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.114335.EDT.>

Given the small number of potential attendees, I would prefer cancelling  the 
meeting.  However if the others feel strongly that we should go ahead,  I 
will reconsider.
 
Randy



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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From marino at skyway.usask.ca  Mon May  7 15:54:07 2007
From: marino at skyway.usask.ca (Marino)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 09:54:07 -0600
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <314356.33139.qm@web27004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.095407.0600.>

Hello Bruce

We would love to have you come; you should try to arrange it for the summer 
or autumn, if there is any real possibility.

Best
Mary

At 04:26 AM 5/7/2007, you wrote:
>Dear Mary
>I'm sorry to let you down, but find I cannot come this year because of 
>work and domestic engagements.  I would like at some later date to come 
>and visit you if possible as I have a sabbatical term next year.
>yours
>Bruce
>
>Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca> wrote:
>I am posting this message at Randy Graczyk's suggestion:
>
>At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend
>(and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon. Do those of you who have
>been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances? Please
>give a definite answer within the next two days.
>
>Best regards,
>Mary Marino
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. 
><http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTEydmViNG02BF9TAzIxMTQ3MTcxOTAEc2VjA21haWwEc2xrA3RhZ2xpbmU>Try 
>it now.
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From rood at spot.Colorado.EDU  Mon May  7 16:55:28 2007
From: rood at spot.Colorado.EDU (ROOD DAVID S)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 10:55:28 -0600
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070507095136.022e3d68@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.105528.0600.>

Dear Mary,

	I feel very bad about our response to all the effort you put into
arranging this meeting, but I'm in the "can't come" category as well.  I
still haven't got my new passport (I sent it in for renewal around the
first of March).

	Best wishes for a great CLA meeting.

	David

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu


From marino at skyway.usask.ca  Mon May  7 17:19:35 2007
From: marino at skyway.usask.ca (Marino)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:19:35 -0600
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0705071045500.18767@spot.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.111935.0600.>

Hello David

Nobody should feel bad about this as regards the efforts and 
arrangements.  It is a pity to miss having the conference this year, and 
that does seem to be what we are facing, but I certainly have no ill 
feeling about it, and I hope nobody else does, either.

Best
Mary

At 10:55 AM 5/7/2007, you wrote:

>Dear Mary,
>
>         I feel very bad about our response to all the effort you put into
>arranging this meeting, but I'm in the "can't come" category as well.  I
>still haven't got my new passport (I sent it in for renewal around the
>first of March).
>
>         Best wishes for a great CLA meeting.
>
>         David
>
>David S. Rood
>Dept. of Linguistics
>Univ. of Colorado
>295 UCB
>Boulder, CO 80309-0295
>USA
>rood at colorado.edu


From ardisrachel at gmail.com  Wed May  9 04:16:06 2007
From: ardisrachel at gmail.com (Ardis Eschenberg)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 23:16:06 -0500
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070507111551.0223c7c0@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.MAY.2007.231606.0500.>

I regret that I could not come this year either.  I remember the conference
at Regina and was really excited to go back to such a beautiful area.
Apologetically,
Ardis



On 5/7/07, Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca> wrote:
>
> Hello David
>
> Nobody should feel bad about this as regards the efforts and
> arrangements.  It is a pity to miss having the conference this year, and
> that does seem to be what we are facing, but I certainly have no ill
> feeling about it, and I hope nobody else does, either.
>
> Best
> Mary
>
> At 10:55 AM 5/7/2007, you wrote:
>
> >Dear Mary,
> >
> >         I feel very bad about our response to all the effort you put
> into
> >arranging this meeting, but I'm in the "can't come" category as well.  I
> >still haven't got my new passport (I sent it in for renewal around the
> >first of March).
> >
> >         Best wishes for a great CLA meeting.
> >
> >         David
> >
> >David S. Rood
> >Dept. of Linguistics
> >Univ. of Colorado
> >295 UCB
> >Boulder, CO 80309-0295
> >USA
> >rood at colorado.edu
>
>
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From goodtracks at peoplepc.com  Wed May  9 14:17:04 2007
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (goodtracks at peoplepc.com)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:17:04 -0500
Subject: Fw: Jiwele "when".
Message-ID: <WED.9.MAY.2007.091704.0500.>

I want to say Thanks to Jill, Bob and John's input.
As per Bob's suggestion, I will post the question to the list for further 
input.
It would be of especial interest if there were a similar feature with 
Winnebago/ Hochank, as well as a the similarity or variations among related 
languages .
Jimm

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu>
To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>; "JILL D. GREER" <jgreer at mo-net.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:31 AM
Subject: Jiwele "when".


Dear Jill and Jimm,
A number of languages distinguish between "when in the past" and "when in 
the future", so Jimm may be exactly right about the distrubution.  I'd say 
to post the data on the Siouan List and see if others have the same 
division.

All the best,
 Bob

------------------------------------------------------------
I have a question about the difference in use of  "-da (when; at)" and "-i 
(when; before):
Examples found:

Rusdánñe^i hinhiwi ke,    It was finished when we got there.
^Oñe^i hinhiwi ke,          He was shot/ wounded before we arrived.
Ch^ehi hinahe^i  hinhiwi ke,  When we arrived they were killing it.
Irusdan ch^ehiñe^i hinhiwi ke,   They had all ready killed it when we got 
there.

Eswena jida hine hñe ki,  Maybe when he comes/ arrives here, we will go.
Ñiyuda chi us^ena ke,     Whenever it rains, the house/ roof leaks.
Ida hinhida  waruje rigidumi hñe ke,  When we get there, I will buy you 
dinner.

>>From my examples above, it would seem that the first is used for past 
actions, while the second is used for current and future actions.  What's 
your thoughts??



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jill Greer" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: USE OF "-DA" & "-I"


Jimm,
>>From the examples you give, that seems like a logical explanation.  I need 
to dig out my Master's thesis to refresh my memory on those particles.  As I 
recollect,  there was a spatial dimension that related to i- being within 
the view or eyesight of the speaker, while da was more distant.  Perhaps 
those spatial metaphors are extended to time as well?  That is pretty common 
in deictic elements.  My only question is why i- is appearing as a suffix 
here.  I thought it was primarily a prefix, but I guess the language is more 
flexible...
Jill:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Koontz John E" <John.Koontz at Colorado.EDU>
To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>
Cc: "JILL D. GREER" <jgreer at mo-net.com>; "JILL Greer" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: USE OF "-DA" & "-I"


On Tue, 8 May 2007 goodtracks at peoplepc.com wrote:
>
> >From my examples above, it would seem that the first is used for past
> >actions, while the second is used for current and future actions.
> >What's your thoughts??

I'd say that's pretty much what it looks like to me, too.  The -i is used
for temporal succession:

when ..., then (at that time) ...
after ..., ....

The -da looks like it has to do with conditions, which could be
characterized as involving futurity or irrealis.

if (perhaps)/when(ever) ..., then (in that case) ....

The use of -ever in English translations (or its potential use) - as with
eswena jida - helps clarify this as involving conditioning or real ~
unreal possibilities (irrealis).  English uses the same set of
conjunctions for both these cases, making it harder to see what's going
on.


From marino at skyway.usask.ca  Wed May  9 19:37:31 2007
From: marino at skyway.usask.ca (Marino)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 13:37:31 -0600
Subject: bad news; good news
Message-ID: <WED.9.MAY.2007.133731.0600.>

>
>Bad:
>
>The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan in 
>Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled.  Distance, funding and passport 
>problems have been the obstacle.
>
>Good:
>
>Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October 
>of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference.  This 
>plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this 
>posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this 
>event, if it materializes.  Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
>
>Best regards,
>Mary Marino


From rood at spot.Colorado.EDU  Wed May  9 19:50:04 2007
From: rood at spot.Colorado.EDU (ROOD DAVID S)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 13:50:04 -0600
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070509133620.0211ccd0@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <WED.9.MAY.2007.135004.0600.>

I would try very hard to make an October meeting, and in fact, I would
also try hard to bring along the people who will be working on the Lakota
conversation documentation project -- so we could have up to 5 Lakota or
Dakota speakers there.


David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Wed, 9 May 2007, Marino wrote:

>
> >
> >Bad:
> >
> >The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan in
> >Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled.  Distance, funding and passport
> >problems have been the obstacle.
> >
> >Good:
> >
> >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October
> >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference.  This
> >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> >posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this
> >event, if it materializes.  Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Mary Marino
>


From rankin at ku.edu  Wed May  9 23:00:21 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 18:00:21 -0500
Subject: bad news; good news
Message-ID: <WED.9.MAY.2007.180021.0500.>

John Boyle and Mary Marino contacted me about various possibilities.  I didn't want to get roped into organizing a separate meeting for Siouanists this Autumn, but it does turn out that KU is hosting the Mid-America Linguistics Conference sometime in October.  I talked with Sara Rosen, our Chair here, about having some Siouan sessions at MALC and she agreed that it would  be a nice addition to the conference.  I volunteered to handle any Siouan abstracts and to meet with the program committee to make everything dovetail.  Sara is planning an abstract deadline of August 1st, with notification of acceptances by Sept. 1st.  
 
I don't have a date for MALC yet, but I think they're planning it at a time that would conflict with the Endangered Languages of Latin America conference, wherever that is.  We can't find a time that has zero conflicts unfortunately.  I'll pass the call for papers along on this list and also send it to SSILA when I receive it from my dept. -- probably in a week's time.
 
I'm sorry to be missing a chance to see Saskatoon, but perhaps an Autumn meeting will be the next best thing.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of ROOD DAVID S


> I would try very hard to make an October meeting, and in fact, I would
also try hard to bring along the people who will be working on the Lakota
conversation documentation project -- so we could have up to 5 Lakota or
Dakota speakers there.


From John.Koontz at colorado.edu  Thu May 10 01:47:07 2007
From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 19:47:07 -0600
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070509133620.0211ccd0@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <WED.9.MAY.2007.194707.0600.>

On Wed, 9 May 2007, Marino wrote:
> >Good:
> >
> >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October
> >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference.  This
> >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> >posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this
> >event, if it materializes.  Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.

I can make October.  I'm glad I checked for the details of the Saskatoon
meeting, though, before looking into a last minute booking.  I'm pleased
to report that if a passport is required to get out of Kansas I can now
oblige.  Except that I'd be really reluctant to show the picture to
strangers.  For some reason I'm less self conscious about the actual face.

I am also willing to drive to the other end of Kansas in my old van Madge.
(Sounds like David will have a full car.)


From ardisrachel at gmail.com  Thu May 10 06:37:48 2007
From: ardisrachel at gmail.com (Ardis Eschenberg)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 01:37:48 -0500
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0705091941460.4899@spot.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.013748.0500.>

I think I can make October provided baby doesn't try to stay in me an extra
2 weeks like Bea did!
Looking forward to this,
Ardis


On 5/9/07, Koontz John E <John.Koontz at colorado.edu> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 9 May 2007, Marino wrote:
> > >Good:
> > >
> > >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in
> October
> > >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics
> Conference.  This
> > >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> > >posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning
> this
> > >event, if it materializes.  Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
>
> I can make October.  I'm glad I checked for the details of the Saskatoon
> meeting, though, before looking into a last minute booking.  I'm pleased
> to report that if a passport is required to get out of Kansas I can now
> oblige.  Except that I'd be really reluctant to show the picture to
> strangers.  For some reason I'm less self conscious about the actual face.
>
> I am also willing to drive to the other end of Kansas in my old van Madge.
> (Sounds like David will have a full car.)
>
>
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From ardisrachel at gmail.com  Thu May 10 06:44:06 2007
From: ardisrachel at gmail.com (Ardis Eschenberg)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 01:44:06 -0500
Subject: Fw: Jiwele "when".
In-Reply-To: <001e01c79244$d5b7c350$cc12133f@JIMM>
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.014406.0500.>

Omaha also uses two different clause linkage markers based on present/future
or realis/irrealis.
Best,
Ardis


On 5/9/07, goodtracks at peoplepc.com <goodtracks at peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> I want to say Thanks to Jill, Bob and John's input.
> As per Bob's suggestion, I will post the question to the list for further
> input.
> It would be of especial interest if there were a similar feature with
> Winnebago/ Hochank, as well as a the similarity or variations among
> related
> languages .
> Jimm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu>
> To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>; "JILL D. GREER" <jgreer at mo-net.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:31 AM
> Subject: Jiwele "when".
>
>
> Dear Jill and Jimm,
> A number of languages distinguish between "when in the past" and "when in
> the future", so Jimm may be exactly right about the distrubution.  I'd say
> to post the data on the Siouan List and see if others have the same
> division.
>
> All the best,
> Bob
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> I have a question about the difference in use of  "-da (when; at)" and "-i
> (when; before):
> Examples found:
>
> Rusdánñe^i hinhiwi ke,    It was finished when we got there.
> ^Oñe^i hinhiwi ke,          He was shot/ wounded before we arrived.
> Ch^ehi hinahe^i  hinhiwi ke,  When we arrived they were killing it.
> Irusdan ch^ehiñe^i hinhiwi ke,   They had all ready killed it when we got
> there.
>
> Eswena jida hine hñe ki,  Maybe when he comes/ arrives here, we will go.
> Ñiyuda chi us^ena ke,     Whenever it rains, the house/ roof leaks.
> Ida hinhida  waruje rigidumi hñe ke,  When we get there, I will buy you
> dinner.
>
> >From my examples above, it would seem that the first is used for past
> actions, while the second is used for current and future actions.  What's
> your thoughts??
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jill Greer" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
> To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: USE OF "-DA" & "-I"
>
>
> Jimm,
> >From the examples you give, that seems like a logical explanation.  I
> need
> to dig out my Master's thesis to refresh my memory on those particles.  As
> I
> recollect,  there was a spatial dimension that related to i- being within
> the view or eyesight of the speaker, while da was more distant.  Perhaps
> those spatial metaphors are extended to time as well?  That is pretty
> common
> in deictic elements.  My only question is why i- is appearing as a suffix
> here.  I thought it was primarily a prefix, but I guess the language is
> more
> flexible...
> Jill:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Koontz John E" <John.Koontz at Colorado.EDU>
> To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>
> Cc: "JILL D. GREER" <jgreer at mo-net.com>; "JILL Greer" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:26 AM
> Subject: Re: USE OF "-DA" & "-I"
>
>
> On Tue, 8 May 2007 goodtracks at peoplepc.com wrote:
> >
> > >From my examples above, it would seem that the first is used for past
> > >actions, while the second is used for current and future actions.
> > >What's your thoughts??
>
> I'd say that's pretty much what it looks like to me, too.  The -i is used
> for temporal succession:
>
> when ..., then (at that time) ...
> after ..., ....
>
> The -da looks like it has to do with conditions, which could be
> characterized as involving futurity or irrealis.
>
> if (perhaps)/when(ever) ..., then (in that case) ....
>
> The use of -ever in English translations (or its potential use) - as with
> eswena jida - helps clarify this as involving conditioning or real ~
> unreal possibilities (irrealis).  English uses the same set of
> conjunctions for both these cases, making it harder to see what's going
> on.
>
>
>
>
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From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu  Thu May 10 12:16:42 2007
From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 07:16:42 -0500
Subject: kansas SCLC alternative
In-Reply-To: <6e9927690705092337l7b87a424pd4424dd03a508111@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.071642.0500.>

Aloha All,
I could try to make the Kansas gathering.
Uthixide

Mark Awakuni-Swetland
oNska abthiN!
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From carudin1 at wsc.edu  Thu May 10 13:21:42 2007
From: carudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:21:42 -0500
Subject: bad news; good news
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.082142.0500.>

Meeting with MALC is a great idea - I'll try to be there (depending on
exact date).  


From kdshea at aol.com  Thu May 10 13:40:05 2007
From: kdshea at aol.com (Kathleen Shea)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:40:05 -0500
Subject: bad news; good news
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.084005.0500.>

Mary, and all,

The time and place of the MALC meeting would certainly be an easier stretch
for me. I'm sorry Saskatoon in May didn't work out.  Thank-you for all your
hard work, Mary!

Kathy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marino" <marino at skyway.usask.ca>
To: <siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 2:37 PM
Subject: bad news; good news


>
> >
> >Bad:
> >
> >The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan in
> >Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled.  Distance, funding and passport
> >problems have been the obstacle.
> >
> >Good:
> >
> >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October
> >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference.  This
> >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> >posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this
> >event, if it materializes.  Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Mary Marino
>
>


From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com  Thu May 10 15:44:08 2007
From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:44:08 -0700
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <007101c79308$b83745c0$7101a8c0@aoldsl.net>
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.084408.0700.>

This also works better for me, and in about another week I should have a paper on Biloxi to present at MALC as well!
   
  Dave

Kathleen Shea <kdshea at aol.com> wrote:
  Mary, and all,

The time and place of the MALC meeting would certainly be an easier stretch
for me. I'm sorry Saskatoon in May didn't work out. Thank-you for all your
hard work, Mary!

Kathy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marino" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 2:37 PM
Subject: bad news; good news


>
> >
> >Bad:
> >
> >The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan in
> >Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled. Distance, funding and passport
> >problems have been the obstacle.
> >
> >Good:
> >
> >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October
> >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference. This
> >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> >posting. I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this
> >event, if it materializes. Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Mary Marino
>
>



  
---------------------------------
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From pustetrm at yahoo.com  Fri May 11 11:06:21 2007
From: pustetrm at yahoo.com (REGINA PUSTET)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 04:06:21 -0700
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <354689.62016.qm@web53812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.MAY.2007.040621.0700.>

A Siouan&Caddoan Conference in October would fit my schedule a whole lot better. Kansas is a perfect location too. What I'd have to offer (which hadn't been submitted to the organizers of the Saskatoon event) is a paper on proximative aspect in Lakota.
   
  Regina
   
   
   
  David Kaufman <dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:
    This also works better for me, and in about another week I should have a paper on Biloxi to present at MALC as well!
   
  Dave

Kathleen Shea <kdshea at aol.com> wrote:
  Mary, and all,

The time and place of the MALC meeting would certainly be an easier stretch
for me. I'm sorry Saskatoon in May didn't work out. Thank-you for all your
hard work, Mary!

Kathy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marino" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 2:37 PM
Subject: bad news; good news


>
> >
> >Bad:
> >
> >The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan in
> >Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled. Distance, funding and passport
> >problems have been the obstacle.
> >
> >Good:
> >
> >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October
> >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference. This
> >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> >posting. I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this
> >event, if it materializes. Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Mary Marino
>
>


    
---------------------------------
  Looking for earth-friendly autos? 
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. 

 
---------------------------------
Need Mail bonding?
Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
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From willemdereuse at unt.edu  Fri May 11 14:01:50 2007
From: willemdereuse at unt.edu (willemdereuse at unt.edu)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:01:50 -0500
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070509133620.0211ccd0@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.MAY.2007.090150.0500.>

Thank you Mary, for all the hard work.  I am sorry but I did not have 
the time and funds to go to Saskatoon.  I am going to try to make the 
Kansas meeting.

Willem
>
>>
>> Bad:
>>
>> The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan 
>> in Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled.  Distance, funding and 
>> passport problems have been the obstacle.
>>
>> Good:
>>
>> Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in 
>> October of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics 
>> Conference.  This plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no 
>> more details in this posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever 
>> way I can in planning this event, if it materializes.  Let us hear 
>> your thoughts and suggestions.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mary Marino
>
>


From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk  Fri May 11 16:47:10 2007
From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 17:47:10 +0100
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070507095136.022e3d68@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.MAY.2007.174710.0100.>

Dear Mary
Thanks for the welcome.  Probably summer or autumn 2008 will be a good time.  Actually spring 2008 is also easy, but may not fit your programme.
Yours
Bruce

Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca> wrote:   Hello Bruce

 We would love to have you come; you should try to arrange it for the summer or autumn, if there is any real possibility.  

 Best
 Mary

 At 04:26 AM 5/7/2007, you wrote:
 Dear Mary
 I'm sorry to let you down, but find I cannot come this year because of work and domestic engagements.  I would like at some later date to come and visit you if possible as I have a sabbatical term next year.
 yours
 Bruce

 Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca> wrote:
   
   I am posting this message at Randy Graczyk's suggestion:

  
   At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend 
  
   (and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon. Do those of you who have 
  
   been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances? Please 
  
   give a definite answer within the next two days.

  
   Best regards,
  
   Mary Marino

  
 
 Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. 

       
---------------------------------
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From linguista at gmail.com  Sat May 12 16:13:31 2007
From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan Gordon)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 11:13:31 -0500
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070507001821.02288e70@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <SAT.12.MAY.2007.111331.0500.>

Well I just came out of sequestration yesterday after two weeks of
non-stop writing and am working my way through an unbelievable stack
of emails. I'd still love to come to SCLC, but I don't suppose it's
going to happen. This year has been hugely taxing on my time and
money; I've taken a whopping 28 credits and haven't had time to
prepare anything to present, and without a paper my department won't
support the travel; and I'm having a hard enough time figuring out how
to pay for the LSA Institute (to which I got a tuition fellowship!
yay!) without adding additional travel, so I suppose I'm in the "no"
category as well, although if a bucket of cash lands in my lap in the
next week that could change.

- Bryan Gordon

2007/5/7, Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca>:
>   I am posting this message at  Randy Graczyk's suggestion:
>
> At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend
> (and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon.  Do those of you who have
> been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances?  Please
> give a definite answer within the next two days.
>
> Best regards,
> Mary Marino
>
>


From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu  Fri May 18 15:54:24 2007
From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:54:24 -0500
Subject: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains
In-Reply-To: <004301c61f3c$34701fa0$f5f1e544@tu.ok.cox.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.MAY.2007.105424.0500.>

The University of Nebraska Press is going to reprint my 2001 Routledge 
monograph on the Omaha Dance Lodges. Finally it will be in an afordable 
paperback.

This provides me an opportunity to attach an afterword that begins a 
discussion about these circular structures among other Great Plains tribes 
and their relation (or not) to the Omaha Dance and/or Hethushka. I want to 
gather together some of the current thinking on these structures and 
offers some speculations.

I have looked at the SiouanList archives related to the Grass Dance and 
Hethushka.

I recall that Loretta Fowler mentions the Omaha Dance among the Arapahoe, 
and circular structures used for social events among the Gros Ventre in 
her books.

I have references to the Lakota at Pine Ridge doing the "Omaha Dance" in 
circular structures built for that purpose in the late 1800s. I am aware 
of circular lodges among the Osage and Pawnee in Oklahoma, but with little 
details about their construction and uses.

It has been suggested that investing in these structures seems to be an 
early Reservation phenomenon since folks were no longer nomadic and 
restrained from other cultural practices.

Are you aware of any other occurences of such structures?

Thank you for considering this inquiry,

Regards,

Mark Awakuni-Swetland

mawakuni-swetland2 at unl.edu
Office: 402-472-3455
FAX: 402-472-9642

oNska abthiN!
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From Rgraczyk at aol.com  Fri May 18 19:12:02 2007
From: Rgraczyk at aol.com (Rgraczyk at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:12:02 EDT
Subject: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains
Message-ID: <FRI.18.MAY.2007.151202.EDT.>

There is a circular dance hall at Crow Agency.  It has pretty much  outlived 
its usefulness, and has been condemned as a fire hazard.  But  until recently 
dances were held there, especially during the winter months, also  hand games, 
and tribal council meetings.
 
Randy



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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From tmleonard at cox.net  Fri May 18 19:41:42 2007
From: tmleonard at cox.net (Tom Leonard)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:41:42 -0500
Subject: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains
In-Reply-To: <OFBB74FA47.1C8FF661-ON862572DF.0056A93B-862572DF.00575B2A@unl.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.MAY.2007.144142.0500.>

Mark,

There were several Hethushka round houses on the Ponca Reservation in 
Oklahoma. There was at least one "earth lodge" built for that purpose, 
as well (its 'foundation' can still be seen near Bois D'Arc). The last 
round house at Ponca burned down in the early 1960's.

There were dance houses in each of the 5 original Osage districts (later 
distilled down to three districts). One remains standing in Hominy, 
Oklahoma.

I recall one of these round houses being mentioned in Quapaw country 
(northeastern Oklahoma) but don't recall too many details on that one. 
But, I know folks up that way who might.

There are pictures and plenty of folks still around that remember the 
details of these  buildings. My older brother used to have the job of 
keeping the wood stoves going during winter dances at Ponca - he can 
tell you all kinds of details.

Let us know what you need.

Tom Leonard


Mark J Awakuni-Swetland wrote:
>
> The University of Nebraska Press is going to reprint my 2001 Routledge 
> monograph on the Omaha Dance Lodges. Finally it will be in an 
> afordable paperback.
>
> This provides me an opportunity to attach an afterword that begins a 
> discussion about these circular structures among other Great Plains 
> tribes and their relation (or not) to the Omaha Dance and/or/ 
> Hethushka/. I want to gather together some of the current thinking on 
> these structures and offers some speculations.
>
> I have looked at the SiouanList archives related to the Grass Dance 
> and /Hethushka/.
>
> I recall that Loretta Fowler mentions the Omaha Dance among the 
> Arapahoe, and circular structures used for social events among the 
> Gros Ventre in her books.
>
> I have references to the Lakota at Pine Ridge doing the "Omaha Dance" 
> in circular structures built for that purpose in the late 1800s. I am 
> aware of circular lodges among the Osage and Pawnee in Oklahoma, but 
> with little details about their construction and uses.
>
> It has been suggested that investing in these structures seems to be 
> an early Reservation phenomenon since folks were no longer nomadic and 
> restrained from other cultural practices.
>
> Are you aware of any other occurences of such structures?
>
> Thank you for considering this inquiry,
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark Awakuni-Swetland
>
> mawakuni-swetland2 at unl.edu
> Office: 402-472-3455
> FAX: 402-472-9642
>
> oNska abthiN! 
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From bmaxwell at mt.net  Sat May 19 06:07:32 2007
From: bmaxwell at mt.net (Billy Maxwell)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 00:07:32 -0600
Subject: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains
In-Reply-To: <464E0176.6040305@cox.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.19.MAY.2007.000732.0600.>

The dance lodges are a carry over from earth lodges since the dance was 
transfered to the Hidatsa
at a fairly late date. I think it is 1870. Then that form spread from 
there and the dance house with it.
This is one version of the spread and I am sure there are other 
versions out there.

The Crow Call it the Hot Dance early on and it was a carry over from 
the Arikara doings.

The late Bill Shortman, who was Belknap Gros Ventre, told me quite a 
bit about the old dance houses there.
Some stories I should not relate here, he he. Along with wood stoves 
there are the kerosine lanterns and then the
Coleman lanterns after WW 2. Some of our contributors have boogied in 
Blackfeet dance halls as late as the 1950's.
Billy


From goodtracks at peoplepc.com  Sat May 19 18:36:48 2007
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (goodtracks at peoplepc.com)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 13:36:48 -0500
Subject: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains
Message-ID: <SAT.19.MAY.2007.133648.0500.>

Somewhere I have a photo of the old Otoe-Missouria round house.  Earlier 
someone spoke of the round dance houses at Ponca, Osage and Pawnee.  At 
Pawnee, there was the South Round House that was gone by the 50s/ 60s, but 
the North (Skidi) Round House stood unto recent times when it caved in to 
deterioration.  About late1980s-90s, a new larger Round House was built and 
is used regularly.
The Ioway of Oklahoma would dance Iroshka in an open air space, South of the 
Cimmarron river.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Billy Maxwell" <bmaxwell at mt.net>
To: <siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains


> The dance lodges are a carry over from earth lodges since the dance was 
> transfered to the Hidatsa
> at a fairly late date. I think it is 1870. Then that form spread from 
> there and the dance house with it.
> This is one version of the spread and I am sure there are other versions 
> out there.
>
> The Crow Call it the Hot Dance early on and it was a carry over from the 
> Arikara doings.
>
> The late Bill Shortman, who was Belknap Gros Ventre, told me quite a bit 
> about the old dance houses there.
> Some stories I should not relate here, he he. Along with wood stoves there 
> are the kerosine lanterns and then the
> Coleman lanterns after WW 2. Some of our contributors have boogied in 
> Blackfeet dance halls as late as the 1950's.
> Billy
>
> 


From rankin at ku.edu  Sat May 19 19:22:09 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 14:22:09 -0500
Subject: Mid America Conference dates.
Message-ID: <SAT.19.MAY.2007.142209.0500.>

All,
 
The dates of the Mid America Linguistics Conference at the University of Kansas will be October 27-29, 2007.  When I receive further details on abstract submission and related topics, I'll pass it along immediately
 
Best,
 
Bob.  


From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu  Sat May 19 20:52:00 2007
From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 15:52:00 -0500
Subject: Mid America Conference dates.
Message-ID: <SAT.19.MAY.2007.155200.0500.>

Bob wrote:
>>> rankin at ku.edu 5/19/2007 2:22 PM >>>
>The dates of the Mid America Linguistics Conference at the University
of Kansas will be October 27-29, 2007. When I >receive further details
on abstract submission and related topics, I'll pass it along
immediately

Hmmm...  This is off by a day from the information that came out on
LinguistList last week (which I've pasted in below).  Oct. 26-28 seems
more likely than 27-29 (Friday-Sunday is more normal for a conference
than Saturday-Monday) so I assume the LgList information is correct. 
Abstract submission information is included in the LgList post. 
Deadline Aug. 1.  Unless there's going to be a different submission
proceedure for the Siouan sessions?  Bob, I think you said you were
going to oversee the formation of special Siouan panels or something???
Maybe the papers won't go through the normal MALC abstract review
proceedure, whatever that may be?
 
Just my 2 cents - Catherine
Here's that post:
 
Full Title: Mid America Linguistics Conference 
Short Title: MALC 
 
Date: 26-Oct-2007 - 28-Oct-2007
Location: Lawrence, Kansas, USA 
Contact Person: Sara Rosen
Meeting Email: rosen at ku.edu 
Web Site: http://www.linguistics.ku.edu 
 
Linguistic Field(s): General Linguistics 
 
Call Deadline: 01-Aug-2007 
 
Meeting Description:
 
The Department of Linguistics at the University of Kansas is pleased to
announce
that it will be hosting the 2007 Mid-America Linguistics Conference
(MALC). The
conference will take place on October 26-28 2007 at the University of
Kansas
campus in Lawrence. 
 
We invite abstracts in all areas of linguistics, including (but not
restricted
to) phonology, phonetics, syntax, semantics, pragmatics, historical
linguistics,
sociolinguistics, neurolinguistics, and psycholinguistics.
Interdisciplinary
papers are more then welcome. This year's meeting will feature special
interest
sessions on Psycho/Neurolinguistics, Endangered Languages, and/or
African
Languages. Each presentation will be allowed 20 minutes plus 10 minutes
for
discussion. You may also submit to the poster session. 
 
Please send abstracts of maximum 500 words in Word or PDF format to
Mircea
Sauciuc (mcs at ku.edu) or Sara Rosen (rosen at ku.edu). Your name,
affiliation,
mailing address and email address should be included in the body of the
email,
in addition to whether you are submitting to a poster or presentation
session. 
 
The deadline for abstract submission is August 1, 2007.  Acceptance
notification
will go out by early September.
 

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From rankin at ku.edu  Sat May 19 21:48:42 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 16:48:42 -0500
Subject: Mid America Conference dates.
Message-ID: <SAT.19.MAY.2007.164842.0500.>

I'd say to use the dates from Linguist List.  I don't read that list and got my info from Sara Rosen.  She probably was off by one day when she gave me them by email.  Surely it will be Friday, Sat. and Sunday a.m. --  I hope.  If I hear differently, I'll let everyone know.  I'd say to send your abstracts to Mircea.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Catherine Rudin
Sent: Sat 5/19/2007 3:52 PM
To: Rankin, Robert L; siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Mid America Conference dates.


Bob wrote:
>>> rankin at ku.edu 5/19/2007 2:22 PM >>>

>The dates of the Mid America Linguistics Conference at the University of Kansas will be October 27-29, 2007. When I >receive further details on abstract submission and related topics, I'll pass it along immediately

Hmmm...  This is off by a day from the information that came out on LinguistList last week (which I've pasted in below).  Oct. 26-28 seems more likely than 27-29 (Friday-Sunday is more normal for a conference than Saturday-Monday) so I assume the LgList information is correct.  Abstract submission information is included in the LgList post.  Deadline Aug. 1.  Unless there's going to be a different submission proceedure for the Siouan sessions?  Bob, I think you said you were going to oversee the formation of special Siouan panels or something??? Maybe the papers won't go through the normal MALC abstract review proceedure, whatever that may be?
 
Just my 2 cents - Catherine
Here's that post:
 
Full Title: Mid America Linguistics Conference 
Short Title: MALC 
 
Date: 26-Oct-2007 - 28-Oct-2007
Location: Lawrence, Kansas, USA 
Contact Person: Sara Rosen
Meeting Email: rosen at ku.edu 
Web Site: http://www.linguistics.ku.edu <http://www.linguistics.ku.edu/>  
 
Linguistic Field(s): General Linguistics 
 
Call Deadline: 01-Aug-2007 
 
Meeting Description:
 
The Department of Linguistics at the University of Kansas is pleased to announce
that it will be hosting the 2007 Mid-America Linguistics Conference (MALC). The
conference will take place on October 26-28 2007 at the University of Kansas
campus in Lawrence. 
 
We invite abstracts in all areas of linguistics, including (but not restricted
to) phonology, phonetics, syntax, semantics, pragmatics, historical linguistics,
sociolinguistics, neurolinguistics, and psycholinguistics. Interdisciplinary
papers are more then welcome. This year's meeting will feature special interest
sessions on Psycho/Neurolinguistics, Endangered Languages, and/or African
Languages. Each presentation will be allowed 20 minutes plus 10 minutes for
discussion. You may also submit to the poster session. 
 
Please send abstracts of maximum 500 words in Word or PDF format to Mircea
Sauciuc (mcs at ku.edu) or Sara Rosen (rosen at ku.edu). Your name, affiliation,
mailing address and email address should be included in the body of the email,
in addition to whether you are submitting to a poster or presentation session. 
 
The deadline for abstract submission is August 1, 2007.  Acceptance notification
will go out by early September.
 


From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com  Tue May 29 16:47:50 2007
From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 09:47:50 -0700
Subject: Irrealis in Siouan
Message-ID: <TUE.29.MAY.2007.094750.0700.>

Hi Siouanists:
   
  I'm looking into a Biloxi particle (perhaps for another paper) which is 'hi'.  This seems to be a type of "irrealis" marker occurring in future, past, and hortatory situations.  Einaudi discussed it in terms of "hortatory," but it appears far more than in the contexts that she mentioned.  AND, I've noticed its usage seems to parallel that of a couple of other Native languages I'm familiar with: Rumsen (Ohlone) and Zoque (Mexico), in which an "irrealis" particle seems to indicate something happening "not in the here and now," meaning it can occur in past, future, or conditional situations.
   
  I'm wondering if anyone has studied this phenomenon in other Siouan languages (or geographically close languages like Caddo or Muskogean), and, for that matter, across Native American languages in general, since I'm seeing similar usages in 3 completely unrelated language families.
   
  Thanks.
   
  Dave
   
   

 
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From rankin at ku.edu  Tue May 29 17:24:44 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 12:24:44 -0500
Subject: Irrealis in Siouan
Message-ID: <TUE.29.MAY.2007.122444.0500.>

I can't think of anything that would be fully cognate right offhand.  There's the /hi/ that is part of causative *hi_(r)e, where the (r) is epenthetic.  JEK has suggested that this is a complementizer of some kind.  I'll let him explain the details, as I don't know where else /hi/ might occur as such.
 
Closer semantically is */iN/, which occurs compounded with irrealis */-kte/ in Dakotan and Winnebago.  Apparently it also occurs without /kte/ in Omaha and perhaps other languages and has some sort of irrealis meaning.  This is not properly cognate with Biloxi /hi/ because of the oral vowel in the latter.  The /h/ could be explained as a Biloxi reflex of /?/, as in /hoNni/ 'be, do'.  The Omaha use of /iN/ has been the subject of earlier correspondence on this list that can be found in the archives at Linguist List.  
 
That's the best I can do.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of David Kaufman
Sent: Tue 5/29/2007 11:47 AM
To: Siouan List
Subject: Irrealis in Siouan


Hi Siouanists:
 
I'm looking into a Biloxi particle (perhaps for another paper) which is 'hi'.  This seems to be a type of "irrealis" marker occurring in future, past, and hortatory situations.  Einaudi discussed it in terms of "hortatory," but it appears far more than in the contexts that she mentioned.  AND, I've noticed its usage seems to parallel that of a couple of other Native languages I'm familiar with: Rumsen (Ohlone) and Zoque (Mexico), in which an "irrealis" particle seems to indicate something happening "not in the here and now," meaning it can occur in past, future, or conditional situations.
 
I'm wondering if anyone has studied this phenomenon in other Siouan languages (or geographically close languages like Caddo or Muskogean), and, for that matter, across Native American languages in general, since I'm seeing similar usages in 3 completely unrelated language families.
 
Thanks.
 
Dave
 
 

________________________________

The fish are biting.
Get more visitors <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php?o=US2140&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Q107Tagline&s=Y&s2=EM&b=50>  on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php?o=US2140&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Q107Tagline&s=Y&s2=EM&b=50> 


From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk  Tue May 29 21:25:37 2007
From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:25:37 +0100
Subject: Irrealis in Siouan
In-Reply-To: <C70AC5440FBE564E828E8051E8D3CBE604489AA5@MAILBOXSIX.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.29.MAY.2007.222537.0100.>

-kte can occur in Lakota with the particle -tkha (often marking past habitual no longer operating), sometimes appearing as -tha or -kha which resembles the tukha conjunction meaning 'but', this then means 'would have, should have' as in
naksemayanpi-kta-tkha 'they would have hung me' or sometimes without the -kta as in 
wahi-s^ni-tkha 'i should not have come' .  Strangely enough a rather similar thing happens in Cree with the future prefix kaa(h)-, which can combine with a past marker ki(i)- giving kiispin.......namoya ota ki-kaah -apinaanaw 'if...........we would not be sitting here.'  There is some doubt as to whether these really are the future and past suffixes in this usage, but they certainly look like them.  they can be reversed giving such examples as pitaama kaa-kii-nanaaskomot 'they should thank him'

Bruce



"Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu> wrote: I can't think of anything that would be fully cognate right offhand.  There's the /hi/ that is part of causative *hi_(r)e, where the (r) is epenthetic.  JEK has suggested that this is a complementizer of some kind.  I'll let him explain the details, as I don't know where else /hi/ might occur as such.
 
Closer semantically is */iN/, which occurs compounded with irrealis */-kte/ in Dakotan and Winnebago.  Apparently it also occurs without /kte/ in Omaha and perhaps other languages and has some sort of irrealis meaning.  This is not properly cognate with Biloxi /hi/ because of the oral vowel in the latter.  The /h/ could be explained as a Biloxi reflex of /?/, as in /hoNni/ 'be, do'.  The Omaha use of /iN/ has been the subject of earlier correspondence on this list that can be found in the archives at Linguist List.  
 
That's the best I can do.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of David Kaufman
Sent: Tue 5/29/2007 11:47 AM
To: Siouan List
Subject: Irrealis in Siouan


Hi Siouanists:
 
I'm looking into a Biloxi particle (perhaps for another paper) which is 'hi'.  This seems to be a type of "irrealis" marker occurring in future, past, and hortatory situations.  Einaudi discussed it in terms of "hortatory," but it appears far more than in the contexts that she mentioned.  AND, I've noticed its usage seems to parallel that of a couple of other Native languages I'm familiar with: Rumsen (Ohlone) and Zoque (Mexico), in which an "irrealis" particle seems to indicate something happening "not in the here and now," meaning it can occur in past, future, or conditional situations.
 
I'm wondering if anyone has studied this phenomenon in other Siouan languages (or geographically close languages like Caddo or Muskogean), and, for that matter, across Native American languages in general, since I'm seeing similar usages in 3 completely unrelated language families.
 
Thanks.
 
Dave
 
 

________________________________

The fish are biting.
Get more visitors   on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.  


 		
---------------------------------
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From marino at skyway.usask.ca  Thu May 31 05:20:00 2007
From: marino at skyway.usask.ca (Marino)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 23:20:00 -0600
Subject: obviation in Siouan languages
Message-ID: <WED.30.MAY.2007.232000.0600.>

There were two excellent papers on obviation in Cree at the CLA 
meetings.  One of the presenters asked me if there is obviation in any of 
the Siouan languages.  I have a vague memory that this has come up before, 
but I can't find time to troll through the archives.  Any suggestions?

Best
Mary Marino


From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu  Thu May 31 14:10:42 2007
From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:10:42 -0500
Subject: obviation in Siouan languages
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20070530231654.021c5e78@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <THU.31.MAY.2007.091042.0500.>


Mary, would you be willing to offer a brief explanation of what obviation
means in Algonquian?  There has certainly been a good deal of discussion
about a distinction, or a partially overlapping pair of distinctions, in
Omaha-Ponka, for which the categories "proximate" and "obviative" have been
proposed, I believe originally by John Koontz.  My understanding is that
there is some uncertainty as to whether the distinctions in question are
equivalent to the Algonquian distinction or not.

Thanks,
Rory
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From rankin at ku.edu  Thu May 31 18:53:52 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:53:52 -0500
Subject: obviation in Siouan languages
Message-ID: <THU.31.MAY.2007.135352.0500.>

As Rory points out, Dhegiha languages have something very similar distinguishing primary from non-primary actors.  Ardis's dissertation was at least partly on this distinction in Omaha.  
 
I have toyed with the idea of trying to redefine the "switch-reference" distinction in those Siouan languages that have it as an obviation distinction.  Such redefinition clearly works in Muskogean, where it is the only way to tie "S-R" and argument marking particles together without a hopelessly complex appeal to homophony, but I haven't really gotten down to the business of trying to demonstrate it in Siouan.  Clearly the more inclusive concept of "referent tracking" operates in Siouan grammars, though it differs from language to language.  If I had to guess, I'd say it is historically primary in Algonquian but secondary in Siouan.
 
What were the papers you're referring to on Algonquian?
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Marino
Sent: Thu 5/31/2007 12:20 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: obviation in Siouan languages



There were two excellent papers on obviation in Cree at the CLA
meetings.  One of the presenters asked me if there is obviation in any of
the Siouan languages.  I have a vague memory that this has come up before,
but I can't find time to troll through the archives.  Any suggestions?

Best
Mary Marino


From goodtracks at peoplepc.com  Thu May 31 21:57:56 2007
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (goodtracks at peoplepc.com)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 16:57:56 -0500
Subject: Fw:  Omaha tribe Virtual museum
Message-ID: <THU.31.MAY.2007.165756.0500.>

An impressive site for Siouian languages and others.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Olson, Greg 
To: olybean at excite.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:52 PM
Subject: Omaha tribe Virtual museum


Here is a link for a nice online exhibit the Omaha did with the Nebraska State Historical Society and the University of Nebraska.  Greg

http://omahatribe.unl.edu/ 
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From marino at skyway.usask.ca  Mon May  7 06:24:57 2007
From: marino at skyway.usask.ca (Marino)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 00:24:57 -0600
Subject: SCLC 2007
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.002457.0600.>

  I am posting this message at  Randy Graczyk's suggestion:

At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend 
(and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon.  Do those of you who have 
been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances?  Please 
give a definite answer within the next two days.

Best regards,
Mary Marino


From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk  Mon May  7 10:26:34 2007
From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:26:34 +0100
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070507001821.02288e70@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.112634.0100.>

Dear Mary
I'm sorry to let you down, but find I cannot come this year because of work and domestic engagements.  I would like at some later date to come and visit you if possible as I have a sabbatical term next year.
yours
Bruce

Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca> wrote:   I am posting this message at  Randy Graczyk's suggestion:

At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend 
(and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon.  Do those of you who have 
been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances?  Please 
give a definite answer within the next two days.

Best regards,
Mary Marino



       
---------------------------------
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From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu  Mon May  7 14:20:22 2007
From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 09:20:22 -0500
Subject: SCLC 2007
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.092022.0500.>

Hi, Mary.  I've been waffling; hoping to come but needing other pieces
to fall into place before I could comit.   CLA looks great and I hate to
miss SCLC.  But it's a long trip at an awkward time; I won't have time
to drive, and I've probably waited too long to get decent plane fare. 
So -
 
It's really too bad, but I guess I'm not going to attend.    
 
Catherine

>>> marino at skyway.usask.ca 5/7/2007 1:24 AM >>>

  I am posting this message at  Randy Graczyk's suggestion:

At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend

(and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon.  Do those of you who
have 
been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances? 
Please 
give a definite answer within the next two days.

Best regards,
Mary Marino


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From rankin at ku.edu  Mon May  7 15:26:57 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 10:26:57 -0500
Subject: SCLC 2007
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.102657.0500.>

If others decide to come and give papers, I'll be there (and will have a talk or something interesting to discuss.)  I have not had time to put together the promised paper on comparative verb enclitics to complement my prefix comparisons last year, but there are various projects I'm working on.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Catherine Rudin
Sent: Mon 5/7/2007 9:20 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: SCLC 2007


Hi, Mary.  I've been waffling; hoping to come but needing other pieces to fall into place before I could comit.   CLA looks great and I hate to miss SCLC.  But it's a long trip at an awkward time; I won't have time to drive, and I've probably waited too long to get decent plane fare.  So -
 
It's really too bad, but I guess I'm not going to attend.    
 
Catherine

>>> marino at skyway.usask.ca 5/7/2007 1:24 AM >>>

  I am posting this message at  Randy Graczyk's suggestion:

At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend 
(and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon.  Do those of you who have 
been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances?  Please 
give a definite answer within the next two days.

Best regards,
Mary Marino


From Rgraczyk at aol.com  Mon May  7 15:43:35 2007
From: Rgraczyk at aol.com (Rgraczyk at aol.com)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:43:35 EDT
Subject: SCLC 2007
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.114335.EDT.>

Given the small number of potential attendees, I would prefer cancelling  the 
meeting.  However if the others feel strongly that we should go ahead,  I 
will reconsider.
 
Randy



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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From marino at skyway.usask.ca  Mon May  7 15:54:07 2007
From: marino at skyway.usask.ca (Marino)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 09:54:07 -0600
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <314356.33139.qm@web27004.mail.ukl.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.095407.0600.>

Hello Bruce

We would love to have you come; you should try to arrange it for the summer 
or autumn, if there is any real possibility.

Best
Mary

At 04:26 AM 5/7/2007, you wrote:
>Dear Mary
>I'm sorry to let you down, but find I cannot come this year because of 
>work and domestic engagements.  I would like at some later date to come 
>and visit you if possible as I have a sabbatical term next year.
>yours
>Bruce
>
>Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca> wrote:
>I am posting this message at Randy Graczyk's suggestion:
>
>At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend
>(and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon. Do those of you who have
>been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances? Please
>give a definite answer within the next two days.
>
>Best regards,
>Mary Marino
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. 
><http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTEydmViNG02BF9TAzIxMTQ3MTcxOTAEc2VjA21haWwEc2xrA3RhZ2xpbmU>Try 
>it now.
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From rood at spot.Colorado.EDU  Mon May  7 16:55:28 2007
From: rood at spot.Colorado.EDU (ROOD DAVID S)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 10:55:28 -0600
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070507095136.022e3d68@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.105528.0600.>

Dear Mary,

	I feel very bad about our response to all the effort you put into
arranging this meeting, but I'm in the "can't come" category as well.  I
still haven't got my new passport (I sent it in for renewal around the
first of March).

	Best wishes for a great CLA meeting.

	David

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu


From marino at skyway.usask.ca  Mon May  7 17:19:35 2007
From: marino at skyway.usask.ca (Marino)
Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:19:35 -0600
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0705071045500.18767@spot.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.7.MAY.2007.111935.0600.>

Hello David

Nobody should feel bad about this as regards the efforts and 
arrangements.  It is a pity to miss having the conference this year, and 
that does seem to be what we are facing, but I certainly have no ill 
feeling about it, and I hope nobody else does, either.

Best
Mary

At 10:55 AM 5/7/2007, you wrote:

>Dear Mary,
>
>         I feel very bad about our response to all the effort you put into
>arranging this meeting, but I'm in the "can't come" category as well.  I
>still haven't got my new passport (I sent it in for renewal around the
>first of March).
>
>         Best wishes for a great CLA meeting.
>
>         David
>
>David S. Rood
>Dept. of Linguistics
>Univ. of Colorado
>295 UCB
>Boulder, CO 80309-0295
>USA
>rood at colorado.edu


From ardisrachel at gmail.com  Wed May  9 04:16:06 2007
From: ardisrachel at gmail.com (Ardis Eschenberg)
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 23:16:06 -0500
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070507111551.0223c7c0@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <TUE.8.MAY.2007.231606.0500.>

I regret that I could not come this year either.  I remember the conference
at Regina and was really excited to go back to such a beautiful area.
Apologetically,
Ardis



On 5/7/07, Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca> wrote:
>
> Hello David
>
> Nobody should feel bad about this as regards the efforts and
> arrangements.  It is a pity to miss having the conference this year, and
> that does seem to be what we are facing, but I certainly have no ill
> feeling about it, and I hope nobody else does, either.
>
> Best
> Mary
>
> At 10:55 AM 5/7/2007, you wrote:
>
> >Dear Mary,
> >
> >         I feel very bad about our response to all the effort you put
> into
> >arranging this meeting, but I'm in the "can't come" category as well.  I
> >still haven't got my new passport (I sent it in for renewal around the
> >first of March).
> >
> >         Best wishes for a great CLA meeting.
> >
> >         David
> >
> >David S. Rood
> >Dept. of Linguistics
> >Univ. of Colorado
> >295 UCB
> >Boulder, CO 80309-0295
> >USA
> >rood at colorado.edu
>
>
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From goodtracks at peoplepc.com  Wed May  9 14:17:04 2007
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (goodtracks at peoplepc.com)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 09:17:04 -0500
Subject: Fw: Jiwele "when".
Message-ID: <WED.9.MAY.2007.091704.0500.>

I want to say Thanks to Jill, Bob and John's input.
As per Bob's suggestion, I will post the question to the list for further 
input.
It would be of especial interest if there were a similar feature with 
Winnebago/ Hochank, as well as a the similarity or variations among related 
languages .
Jimm

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu>
To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>; "JILL D. GREER" <jgreer at mo-net.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:31 AM
Subject: Jiwele "when".


Dear Jill and Jimm,
A number of languages distinguish between "when in the past" and "when in 
the future", so Jimm may be exactly right about the distrubution.  I'd say 
to post the data on the Siouan List and see if others have the same 
division.

All the best,
 Bob

------------------------------------------------------------
I have a question about the difference in use of  "-da (when; at)" and "-i 
(when; before):
Examples found:

Rusd?n?e^i hinhiwi ke,    It was finished when we got there.
^O?e^i hinhiwi ke,          He was shot/ wounded before we arrived.
Ch^ehi hinahe^i  hinhiwi ke,  When we arrived they were killing it.
Irusdan ch^ehi?e^i hinhiwi ke,   They had all ready killed it when we got 
there.

Eswena jida hine h?e ki,  Maybe when he comes/ arrives here, we will go.
?iyuda chi us^ena ke,     Whenever it rains, the house/ roof leaks.
Ida hinhida  waruje rigidumi h?e ke,  When we get there, I will buy you 
dinner.

>>From my examples above, it would seem that the first is used for past 
actions, while the second is used for current and future actions.  What's 
your thoughts??



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jill Greer" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:38 AM
Subject: Re: USE OF "-DA" & "-I"


Jimm,
>>From the examples you give, that seems like a logical explanation.  I need 
to dig out my Master's thesis to refresh my memory on those particles.  As I 
recollect,  there was a spatial dimension that related to i- being within 
the view or eyesight of the speaker, while da was more distant.  Perhaps 
those spatial metaphors are extended to time as well?  That is pretty common 
in deictic elements.  My only question is why i- is appearing as a suffix 
here.  I thought it was primarily a prefix, but I guess the language is more 
flexible...
Jill:

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Koontz John E" <John.Koontz at Colorado.EDU>
To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>
Cc: "JILL D. GREER" <jgreer at mo-net.com>; "JILL Greer" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: USE OF "-DA" & "-I"


On Tue, 8 May 2007 goodtracks at peoplepc.com wrote:
>
> >From my examples above, it would seem that the first is used for past
> >actions, while the second is used for current and future actions.
> >What's your thoughts??

I'd say that's pretty much what it looks like to me, too.  The -i is used
for temporal succession:

when ..., then (at that time) ...
after ..., ....

The -da looks like it has to do with conditions, which could be
characterized as involving futurity or irrealis.

if (perhaps)/when(ever) ..., then (in that case) ....

The use of -ever in English translations (or its potential use) - as with
eswena jida - helps clarify this as involving conditioning or real ~
unreal possibilities (irrealis).  English uses the same set of
conjunctions for both these cases, making it harder to see what's going
on.


From marino at skyway.usask.ca  Wed May  9 19:37:31 2007
From: marino at skyway.usask.ca (Marino)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 13:37:31 -0600
Subject: bad news; good news
Message-ID: <WED.9.MAY.2007.133731.0600.>

>
>Bad:
>
>The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan in 
>Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled.  Distance, funding and passport 
>problems have been the obstacle.
>
>Good:
>
>Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October 
>of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference.  This 
>plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this 
>posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this 
>event, if it materializes.  Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
>
>Best regards,
>Mary Marino


From rood at spot.Colorado.EDU  Wed May  9 19:50:04 2007
From: rood at spot.Colorado.EDU (ROOD DAVID S)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 13:50:04 -0600
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070509133620.0211ccd0@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <WED.9.MAY.2007.135004.0600.>

I would try very hard to make an October meeting, and in fact, I would
also try hard to bring along the people who will be working on the Lakota
conversation documentation project -- so we could have up to 5 Lakota or
Dakota speakers there.


David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu

On Wed, 9 May 2007, Marino wrote:

>
> >
> >Bad:
> >
> >The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan in
> >Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled.  Distance, funding and passport
> >problems have been the obstacle.
> >
> >Good:
> >
> >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October
> >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference.  This
> >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> >posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this
> >event, if it materializes.  Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Mary Marino
>


From rankin at ku.edu  Wed May  9 23:00:21 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 18:00:21 -0500
Subject: bad news; good news
Message-ID: <WED.9.MAY.2007.180021.0500.>

John Boyle and Mary Marino contacted me about various possibilities.  I didn't want to get roped into organizing a separate meeting for Siouanists this Autumn, but it does turn out that KU is hosting the Mid-America Linguistics Conference sometime in October.  I talked with Sara Rosen, our Chair here, about having some Siouan sessions at MALC and she agreed that it would  be a nice addition to the conference.  I volunteered to handle any Siouan abstracts and to meet with the program committee to make everything dovetail.  Sara is planning an abstract deadline of August 1st, with notification of acceptances by Sept. 1st.  
 
I don't have a date for MALC yet, but I think they're planning it at a time that would conflict with the Endangered Languages of Latin America conference, wherever that is.  We can't find a time that has zero conflicts unfortunately.  I'll pass the call for papers along on this list and also send it to SSILA when I receive it from my dept. -- probably in a week's time.
 
I'm sorry to be missing a chance to see Saskatoon, but perhaps an Autumn meeting will be the next best thing.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of ROOD DAVID S


> I would try very hard to make an October meeting, and in fact, I would
also try hard to bring along the people who will be working on the Lakota
conversation documentation project -- so we could have up to 5 Lakota or
Dakota speakers there.


From John.Koontz at colorado.edu  Thu May 10 01:47:07 2007
From: John.Koontz at colorado.edu (Koontz John E)
Date: Wed, 9 May 2007 19:47:07 -0600
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070509133620.0211ccd0@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <WED.9.MAY.2007.194707.0600.>

On Wed, 9 May 2007, Marino wrote:
> >Good:
> >
> >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October
> >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference.  This
> >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> >posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this
> >event, if it materializes.  Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.

I can make October.  I'm glad I checked for the details of the Saskatoon
meeting, though, before looking into a last minute booking.  I'm pleased
to report that if a passport is required to get out of Kansas I can now
oblige.  Except that I'd be really reluctant to show the picture to
strangers.  For some reason I'm less self conscious about the actual face.

I am also willing to drive to the other end of Kansas in my old van Madge.
(Sounds like David will have a full car.)


From ardisrachel at gmail.com  Thu May 10 06:37:48 2007
From: ardisrachel at gmail.com (Ardis Eschenberg)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 01:37:48 -0500
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0705091941460.4899@spot.colorado.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.013748.0500.>

I think I can make October provided baby doesn't try to stay in me an extra
2 weeks like Bea did!
Looking forward to this,
Ardis


On 5/9/07, Koontz John E <John.Koontz at colorado.edu> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 9 May 2007, Marino wrote:
> > >Good:
> > >
> > >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in
> October
> > >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics
> Conference.  This
> > >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> > >posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning
> this
> > >event, if it materializes.  Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
>
> I can make October.  I'm glad I checked for the details of the Saskatoon
> meeting, though, before looking into a last minute booking.  I'm pleased
> to report that if a passport is required to get out of Kansas I can now
> oblige.  Except that I'd be really reluctant to show the picture to
> strangers.  For some reason I'm less self conscious about the actual face.
>
> I am also willing to drive to the other end of Kansas in my old van Madge.
> (Sounds like David will have a full car.)
>
>
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From ardisrachel at gmail.com  Thu May 10 06:44:06 2007
From: ardisrachel at gmail.com (Ardis Eschenberg)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 01:44:06 -0500
Subject: Fw: Jiwele "when".
In-Reply-To: <001e01c79244$d5b7c350$cc12133f@JIMM>
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.014406.0500.>

Omaha also uses two different clause linkage markers based on present/future
or realis/irrealis.
Best,
Ardis


On 5/9/07, goodtracks at peoplepc.com <goodtracks at peoplepc.com> wrote:
>
> I want to say Thanks to Jill, Bob and John's input.
> As per Bob's suggestion, I will post the question to the list for further
> input.
> It would be of especial interest if there were a similar feature with
> Winnebago/ Hochank, as well as a the similarity or variations among
> related
> languages .
> Jimm
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu>
> To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>; "JILL D. GREER" <jgreer at mo-net.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:31 AM
> Subject: Jiwele "when".
>
>
> Dear Jill and Jimm,
> A number of languages distinguish between "when in the past" and "when in
> the future", so Jimm may be exactly right about the distrubution.  I'd say
> to post the data on the Siouan List and see if others have the same
> division.
>
> All the best,
> Bob
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> I have a question about the difference in use of  "-da (when; at)" and "-i
> (when; before):
> Examples found:
>
> Rusd?n?e^i hinhiwi ke,    It was finished when we got there.
> ^O?e^i hinhiwi ke,          He was shot/ wounded before we arrived.
> Ch^ehi hinahe^i  hinhiwi ke,  When we arrived they were killing it.
> Irusdan ch^ehi?e^i hinhiwi ke,   They had all ready killed it when we got
> there.
>
> Eswena jida hine h?e ki,  Maybe when he comes/ arrives here, we will go.
> ?iyuda chi us^ena ke,     Whenever it rains, the house/ roof leaks.
> Ida hinhida  waruje rigidumi h?e ke,  When we get there, I will buy you
> dinner.
>
> >From my examples above, it would seem that the first is used for past
> actions, while the second is used for current and future actions.  What's
> your thoughts??
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jill Greer" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
> To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:38 AM
> Subject: Re: USE OF "-DA" & "-I"
>
>
> Jimm,
> >From the examples you give, that seems like a logical explanation.  I
> need
> to dig out my Master's thesis to refresh my memory on those particles.  As
> I
> recollect,  there was a spatial dimension that related to i- being within
> the view or eyesight of the speaker, while da was more distant.  Perhaps
> those spatial metaphors are extended to time as well?  That is pretty
> common
> in deictic elements.  My only question is why i- is appearing as a suffix
> here.  I thought it was primarily a prefix, but I guess the language is
> more
> flexible...
> Jill:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Koontz John E" <John.Koontz at Colorado.EDU>
> To: <goodtracks at peoplepc.com>
> Cc: "JILL D. GREER" <jgreer at mo-net.com>; "JILL Greer" <Greer-J at MSSU.EDU>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 10:26 AM
> Subject: Re: USE OF "-DA" & "-I"
>
>
> On Tue, 8 May 2007 goodtracks at peoplepc.com wrote:
> >
> > >From my examples above, it would seem that the first is used for past
> > >actions, while the second is used for current and future actions.
> > >What's your thoughts??
>
> I'd say that's pretty much what it looks like to me, too.  The -i is used
> for temporal succession:
>
> when ..., then (at that time) ...
> after ..., ....
>
> The -da looks like it has to do with conditions, which could be
> characterized as involving futurity or irrealis.
>
> if (perhaps)/when(ever) ..., then (in that case) ....
>
> The use of -ever in English translations (or its potential use) - as with
> eswena jida - helps clarify this as involving conditioning or real ~
> unreal possibilities (irrealis).  English uses the same set of
> conjunctions for both these cases, making it harder to see what's going
> on.
>
>
>
>
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From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu  Thu May 10 12:16:42 2007
From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 07:16:42 -0500
Subject: kansas SCLC alternative
In-Reply-To: <6e9927690705092337l7b87a424pd4424dd03a508111@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.071642.0500.>

Aloha All,
I could try to make the Kansas gathering.
Uthixide

Mark Awakuni-Swetland
oNska abthiN!
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From carudin1 at wsc.edu  Thu May 10 13:21:42 2007
From: carudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:21:42 -0500
Subject: bad news; good news
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.082142.0500.>

Meeting with MALC is a great idea - I'll try to be there (depending on
exact date).  


From kdshea at aol.com  Thu May 10 13:40:05 2007
From: kdshea at aol.com (Kathleen Shea)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:40:05 -0500
Subject: bad news; good news
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.084005.0500.>

Mary, and all,

The time and place of the MALC meeting would certainly be an easier stretch
for me. I'm sorry Saskatoon in May didn't work out.  Thank-you for all your
hard work, Mary!

Kathy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marino" <marino at skyway.usask.ca>
To: <siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 2:37 PM
Subject: bad news; good news


>
> >
> >Bad:
> >
> >The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan in
> >Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled.  Distance, funding and passport
> >problems have been the obstacle.
> >
> >Good:
> >
> >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October
> >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference.  This
> >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> >posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this
> >event, if it materializes.  Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Mary Marino
>
>


From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com  Thu May 10 15:44:08 2007
From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 08:44:08 -0700
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <007101c79308$b83745c0$7101a8c0@aoldsl.net>
Message-ID: <THU.10.MAY.2007.084408.0700.>

This also works better for me, and in about another week I should have a paper on Biloxi to present at MALC as well!
   
  Dave

Kathleen Shea <kdshea at aol.com> wrote:
  Mary, and all,

The time and place of the MALC meeting would certainly be an easier stretch
for me. I'm sorry Saskatoon in May didn't work out. Thank-you for all your
hard work, Mary!

Kathy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marino" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 2:37 PM
Subject: bad news; good news


>
> >
> >Bad:
> >
> >The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan in
> >Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled. Distance, funding and passport
> >problems have been the obstacle.
> >
> >Good:
> >
> >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October
> >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference. This
> >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> >posting. I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this
> >event, if it materializes. Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Mary Marino
>
>



  
---------------------------------
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From pustetrm at yahoo.com  Fri May 11 11:06:21 2007
From: pustetrm at yahoo.com (REGINA PUSTET)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 04:06:21 -0700
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <354689.62016.qm@web53812.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.MAY.2007.040621.0700.>

A Siouan&Caddoan Conference in October would fit my schedule a whole lot better. Kansas is a perfect location too. What I'd have to offer (which hadn't been submitted to the organizers of the Saskatoon event) is a paper on proximative aspect in Lakota.
   
  Regina
   
   
   
  David Kaufman <dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com> wrote:
    This also works better for me, and in about another week I should have a paper on Biloxi to present at MALC as well!
   
  Dave

Kathleen Shea <kdshea at aol.com> wrote:
  Mary, and all,

The time and place of the MALC meeting would certainly be an easier stretch
for me. I'm sorry Saskatoon in May didn't work out. Thank-you for all your
hard work, Mary!

Kathy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marino" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2007 2:37 PM
Subject: bad news; good news


>
> >
> >Bad:
> >
> >The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan in
> >Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled. Distance, funding and passport
> >problems have been the obstacle.
> >
> >Good:
> >
> >Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in October
> >of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics Conference. This
> >plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no more details in this
> >posting. I will be happy to help in whatever way I can in planning this
> >event, if it materializes. Let us hear your thoughts and suggestions.
> >
> >Best regards,
> >Mary Marino
>
>


    
---------------------------------
  Looking for earth-friendly autos? 
Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center. 

 
---------------------------------
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Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
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From willemdereuse at unt.edu  Fri May 11 14:01:50 2007
From: willemdereuse at unt.edu (willemdereuse at unt.edu)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 09:01:50 -0500
Subject: bad news; good news
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070509133620.0211ccd0@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.MAY.2007.090150.0500.>

Thank you Mary, for all the hard work.  I am sorry but I did not have 
the time and funds to go to Saskatoon.  I am going to try to make the 
Kansas meeting.

Willem
>
>>
>> Bad:
>>
>> The projected meeting of SCLC 2007 at the University of Saskatchewan 
>> in Saskatoon on 24-25 May is cancelled.  Distance, funding and 
>> passport problems have been the obstacle.
>>
>> Good:
>>
>> Bob Rankin has suggested an SCLC meeting at Kansas University in 
>> October of this year, jointly with the Mid-America Linguistics 
>> Conference.  This plan was literally born yesterday so I can give no 
>> more details in this posting.  I will be happy to help in whatever 
>> way I can in planning this event, if it materializes.  Let us hear 
>> your thoughts and suggestions.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Mary Marino
>
>


From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk  Fri May 11 16:47:10 2007
From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham)
Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 17:47:10 +0100
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070507095136.022e3d68@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <FRI.11.MAY.2007.174710.0100.>

Dear Mary
Thanks for the welcome.  Probably summer or autumn 2008 will be a good time.  Actually spring 2008 is also easy, but may not fit your programme.
Yours
Bruce

Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca> wrote:   Hello Bruce

 We would love to have you come; you should try to arrange it for the summer or autumn, if there is any real possibility.  

 Best
 Mary

 At 04:26 AM 5/7/2007, you wrote:
 Dear Mary
 I'm sorry to let you down, but find I cannot come this year because of work and domestic engagements.  I would like at some later date to come and visit you if possible as I have a sabbatical term next year.
 yours
 Bruce

 Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca> wrote:
   
   I am posting this message at Randy Graczyk's suggestion:

  
   At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend 
  
   (and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon. Do those of you who have 
  
   been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances? Please 
  
   give a definite answer within the next two days.

  
   Best regards,
  
   Mary Marino

  
 
 Yahoo! Answers - Got a question? Someone out there knows the answer. Try it now. 

       
---------------------------------
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From linguista at gmail.com  Sat May 12 16:13:31 2007
From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan Gordon)
Date: Sat, 12 May 2007 11:13:31 -0500
Subject: SCLC 2007
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.1.20070507001821.02288e70@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <SAT.12.MAY.2007.111331.0500.>

Well I just came out of sequestration yesterday after two weeks of
non-stop writing and am working my way through an unbelievable stack
of emails. I'd still love to come to SCLC, but I don't suppose it's
going to happen. This year has been hugely taxing on my time and
money; I've taken a whopping 28 credits and haven't had time to
prepare anything to present, and without a paper my department won't
support the travel; and I'm having a hard enough time figuring out how
to pay for the LSA Institute (to which I got a tuition fellowship!
yay!) without adding additional travel, so I suppose I'm in the "no"
category as well, although if a bucket of cash lands in my lap in the
next week that could change.

- Bryan Gordon

2007/5/7, Marino <marino at skyway.usask.ca>:
>   I am posting this message at  Randy Graczyk's suggestion:
>
> At this time there appear to be no more than six people who will attend
> (and present papers ?) at SCLC 2007 in Saskatoon.  Do those of you who have
> been planning to attend still want to come in these circumstances?  Please
> give a definite answer within the next two days.
>
> Best regards,
> Mary Marino
>
>


From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu  Fri May 18 15:54:24 2007
From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 10:54:24 -0500
Subject: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains
In-Reply-To: <004301c61f3c$34701fa0$f5f1e544@tu.ok.cox.net>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.MAY.2007.105424.0500.>

The University of Nebraska Press is going to reprint my 2001 Routledge 
monograph on the Omaha Dance Lodges. Finally it will be in an afordable 
paperback.

This provides me an opportunity to attach an afterword that begins a 
discussion about these circular structures among other Great Plains tribes 
and their relation (or not) to the Omaha Dance and/or Hethushka. I want to 
gather together some of the current thinking on these structures and 
offers some speculations.

I have looked at the SiouanList archives related to the Grass Dance and 
Hethushka.

I recall that Loretta Fowler mentions the Omaha Dance among the Arapahoe, 
and circular structures used for social events among the Gros Ventre in 
her books.

I have references to the Lakota at Pine Ridge doing the "Omaha Dance" in 
circular structures built for that purpose in the late 1800s. I am aware 
of circular lodges among the Osage and Pawnee in Oklahoma, but with little 
details about their construction and uses.

It has been suggested that investing in these structures seems to be an 
early Reservation phenomenon since folks were no longer nomadic and 
restrained from other cultural practices.

Are you aware of any other occurences of such structures?

Thank you for considering this inquiry,

Regards,

Mark Awakuni-Swetland

mawakuni-swetland2 at unl.edu
Office: 402-472-3455
FAX: 402-472-9642

oNska abthiN!
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From Rgraczyk at aol.com  Fri May 18 19:12:02 2007
From: Rgraczyk at aol.com (Rgraczyk at aol.com)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 15:12:02 EDT
Subject: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains
Message-ID: <FRI.18.MAY.2007.151202.EDT.>

There is a circular dance hall at Crow Agency.  It has pretty much  outlived 
its usefulness, and has been condemned as a fire hazard.  But  until recently 
dances were held there, especially during the winter months, also  hand games, 
and tribal council meetings.
 
Randy



************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
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From tmleonard at cox.net  Fri May 18 19:41:42 2007
From: tmleonard at cox.net (Tom Leonard)
Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 14:41:42 -0500
Subject: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains
In-Reply-To: <OFBB74FA47.1C8FF661-ON862572DF.0056A93B-862572DF.00575B2A@unl.edu>
Message-ID: <FRI.18.MAY.2007.144142.0500.>

Mark,

There were several Hethushka round houses on the Ponca Reservation in 
Oklahoma. There was at least one "earth lodge" built for that purpose, 
as well (its 'foundation' can still be seen near Bois D'Arc). The last 
round house at Ponca burned down in the early 1960's.

There were dance houses in each of the 5 original Osage districts (later 
distilled down to three districts). One remains standing in Hominy, 
Oklahoma.

I recall one of these round houses being mentioned in Quapaw country 
(northeastern Oklahoma) but don't recall too many details on that one. 
But, I know folks up that way who might.

There are pictures and plenty of folks still around that remember the 
details of these  buildings. My older brother used to have the job of 
keeping the wood stoves going during winter dances at Ponca - he can 
tell you all kinds of details.

Let us know what you need.

Tom Leonard


Mark J Awakuni-Swetland wrote:
>
> The University of Nebraska Press is going to reprint my 2001 Routledge 
> monograph on the Omaha Dance Lodges. Finally it will be in an 
> afordable paperback.
>
> This provides me an opportunity to attach an afterword that begins a 
> discussion about these circular structures among other Great Plains 
> tribes and their relation (or not) to the Omaha Dance and/or/ 
> Hethushka/. I want to gather together some of the current thinking on 
> these structures and offers some speculations.
>
> I have looked at the SiouanList archives related to the Grass Dance 
> and /Hethushka/.
>
> I recall that Loretta Fowler mentions the Omaha Dance among the 
> Arapahoe, and circular structures used for social events among the 
> Gros Ventre in her books.
>
> I have references to the Lakota at Pine Ridge doing the "Omaha Dance" 
> in circular structures built for that purpose in the late 1800s. I am 
> aware of circular lodges among the Osage and Pawnee in Oklahoma, but 
> with little details about their construction and uses.
>
> It has been suggested that investing in these structures seems to be 
> an early Reservation phenomenon since folks were no longer nomadic and 
> restrained from other cultural practices.
>
> Are you aware of any other occurences of such structures?
>
> Thank you for considering this inquiry,
>
> Regards,
>
> Mark Awakuni-Swetland
>
> mawakuni-swetland2 at unl.edu
> Office: 402-472-3455
> FAX: 402-472-9642
>
> oNska abthiN! 
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From bmaxwell at mt.net  Sat May 19 06:07:32 2007
From: bmaxwell at mt.net (Billy Maxwell)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 00:07:32 -0600
Subject: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains
In-Reply-To: <464E0176.6040305@cox.net>
Message-ID: <SAT.19.MAY.2007.000732.0600.>

The dance lodges are a carry over from earth lodges since the dance was 
transfered to the Hidatsa
at a fairly late date. I think it is 1870. Then that form spread from 
there and the dance house with it.
This is one version of the spread and I am sure there are other 
versions out there.

The Crow Call it the Hot Dance early on and it was a carry over from 
the Arikara doings.

The late Bill Shortman, who was Belknap Gros Ventre, told me quite a 
bit about the old dance houses there.
Some stories I should not relate here, he he. Along with wood stoves 
there are the kerosine lanterns and then the
Coleman lanterns after WW 2. Some of our contributors have boogied in 
Blackfeet dance halls as late as the 1950's.
Billy


From goodtracks at peoplepc.com  Sat May 19 18:36:48 2007
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (goodtracks at peoplepc.com)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 13:36:48 -0500
Subject: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains
Message-ID: <SAT.19.MAY.2007.133648.0500.>

Somewhere I have a photo of the old Otoe-Missouria round house.  Earlier 
someone spoke of the round dance houses at Ponca, Osage and Pawnee.  At 
Pawnee, there was the South Round House that was gone by the 50s/ 60s, but 
the North (Skidi) Round House stood unto recent times when it caved in to 
deterioration.  About late1980s-90s, a new larger Round House was built and 
is used regularly.
The Ioway of Oklahoma would dance Iroshka in an open air space, South of the 
Cimmarron river.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Billy Maxwell" <bmaxwell at mt.net>
To: <siouan at lists.colorado.edu>
Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2007 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: Dance Lodges on the Great Plains


> The dance lodges are a carry over from earth lodges since the dance was 
> transfered to the Hidatsa
> at a fairly late date. I think it is 1870. Then that form spread from 
> there and the dance house with it.
> This is one version of the spread and I am sure there are other versions 
> out there.
>
> The Crow Call it the Hot Dance early on and it was a carry over from the 
> Arikara doings.
>
> The late Bill Shortman, who was Belknap Gros Ventre, told me quite a bit 
> about the old dance houses there.
> Some stories I should not relate here, he he. Along with wood stoves there 
> are the kerosine lanterns and then the
> Coleman lanterns after WW 2. Some of our contributors have boogied in 
> Blackfeet dance halls as late as the 1950's.
> Billy
>
> 


From rankin at ku.edu  Sat May 19 19:22:09 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 14:22:09 -0500
Subject: Mid America Conference dates.
Message-ID: <SAT.19.MAY.2007.142209.0500.>

All,
 
The dates of the Mid America Linguistics Conference at the University of Kansas will be October 27-29, 2007.  When I receive further details on abstract submission and related topics, I'll pass it along immediately
 
Best,
 
Bob.  


From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu  Sat May 19 20:52:00 2007
From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 15:52:00 -0500
Subject: Mid America Conference dates.
Message-ID: <SAT.19.MAY.2007.155200.0500.>

Bob wrote:
>>> rankin at ku.edu 5/19/2007 2:22 PM >>>
>The dates of the Mid America Linguistics Conference at the University
of Kansas will be October 27-29, 2007. When I >receive further details
on abstract submission and related topics, I'll pass it along
immediately

Hmmm...  This is off by a day from the information that came out on
LinguistList last week (which I've pasted in below).  Oct. 26-28 seems
more likely than 27-29 (Friday-Sunday is more normal for a conference
than Saturday-Monday) so I assume the LgList information is correct. 
Abstract submission information is included in the LgList post. 
Deadline Aug. 1.  Unless there's going to be a different submission
proceedure for the Siouan sessions?  Bob, I think you said you were
going to oversee the formation of special Siouan panels or something???
Maybe the papers won't go through the normal MALC abstract review
proceedure, whatever that may be?
 
Just my 2 cents - Catherine
Here's that post:
 
Full Title: Mid America Linguistics Conference 
Short Title: MALC 
 
Date: 26-Oct-2007 - 28-Oct-2007
Location: Lawrence, Kansas, USA 
Contact Person: Sara Rosen
Meeting Email: rosen at ku.edu 
Web Site: http://www.linguistics.ku.edu 
 
Linguistic Field(s): General Linguistics 
 
Call Deadline: 01-Aug-2007 
 
Meeting Description:
 
The Department of Linguistics at the University of Kansas is pleased to
announce
that it will be hosting the 2007 Mid-America Linguistics Conference
(MALC). The
conference will take place on October 26-28 2007 at the University of
Kansas
campus in Lawrence. 
 
We invite abstracts in all areas of linguistics, including (but not
restricted
to) phonology, phonetics, syntax, semantics, pragmatics, historical
linguistics,
sociolinguistics, neurolinguistics, and psycholinguistics.
Interdisciplinary
papers are more then welcome. This year's meeting will feature special
interest
sessions on Psycho/Neurolinguistics, Endangered Languages, and/or
African
Languages. Each presentation will be allowed 20 minutes plus 10 minutes
for
discussion. You may also submit to the poster session. 
 
Please send abstracts of maximum 500 words in Word or PDF format to
Mircea
Sauciuc (mcs at ku.edu) or Sara Rosen (rosen at ku.edu). Your name,
affiliation,
mailing address and email address should be included in the body of the
email,
in addition to whether you are submitting to a poster or presentation
session. 
 
The deadline for abstract submission is August 1, 2007.  Acceptance
notification
will go out by early September.
 

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From rankin at ku.edu  Sat May 19 21:48:42 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 16:48:42 -0500
Subject: Mid America Conference dates.
Message-ID: <SAT.19.MAY.2007.164842.0500.>

I'd say to use the dates from Linguist List.  I don't read that list and got my info from Sara Rosen.  She probably was off by one day when she gave me them by email.  Surely it will be Friday, Sat. and Sunday a.m. --  I hope.  If I hear differently, I'll let everyone know.  I'd say to send your abstracts to Mircea.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Catherine Rudin
Sent: Sat 5/19/2007 3:52 PM
To: Rankin, Robert L; siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Re: Mid America Conference dates.


Bob wrote:
>>> rankin at ku.edu 5/19/2007 2:22 PM >>>

>The dates of the Mid America Linguistics Conference at the University of Kansas will be October 27-29, 2007. When I >receive further details on abstract submission and related topics, I'll pass it along immediately

Hmmm...  This is off by a day from the information that came out on LinguistList last week (which I've pasted in below).  Oct. 26-28 seems more likely than 27-29 (Friday-Sunday is more normal for a conference than Saturday-Monday) so I assume the LgList information is correct.  Abstract submission information is included in the LgList post.  Deadline Aug. 1.  Unless there's going to be a different submission proceedure for the Siouan sessions?  Bob, I think you said you were going to oversee the formation of special Siouan panels or something??? Maybe the papers won't go through the normal MALC abstract review proceedure, whatever that may be?
 
Just my 2 cents - Catherine
Here's that post:
 
Full Title: Mid America Linguistics Conference 
Short Title: MALC 
 
Date: 26-Oct-2007 - 28-Oct-2007
Location: Lawrence, Kansas, USA 
Contact Person: Sara Rosen
Meeting Email: rosen at ku.edu 
Web Site: http://www.linguistics.ku.edu <http://www.linguistics.ku.edu/>  
 
Linguistic Field(s): General Linguistics 
 
Call Deadline: 01-Aug-2007 
 
Meeting Description:
 
The Department of Linguistics at the University of Kansas is pleased to announce
that it will be hosting the 2007 Mid-America Linguistics Conference (MALC). The
conference will take place on October 26-28 2007 at the University of Kansas
campus in Lawrence. 
 
We invite abstracts in all areas of linguistics, including (but not restricted
to) phonology, phonetics, syntax, semantics, pragmatics, historical linguistics,
sociolinguistics, neurolinguistics, and psycholinguistics. Interdisciplinary
papers are more then welcome. This year's meeting will feature special interest
sessions on Psycho/Neurolinguistics, Endangered Languages, and/or African
Languages. Each presentation will be allowed 20 minutes plus 10 minutes for
discussion. You may also submit to the poster session. 
 
Please send abstracts of maximum 500 words in Word or PDF format to Mircea
Sauciuc (mcs at ku.edu) or Sara Rosen (rosen at ku.edu). Your name, affiliation,
mailing address and email address should be included in the body of the email,
in addition to whether you are submitting to a poster or presentation session. 
 
The deadline for abstract submission is August 1, 2007.  Acceptance notification
will go out by early September.
 


From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com  Tue May 29 16:47:50 2007
From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 09:47:50 -0700
Subject: Irrealis in Siouan
Message-ID: <TUE.29.MAY.2007.094750.0700.>

Hi Siouanists:
   
  I'm looking into a Biloxi particle (perhaps for another paper) which is 'hi'.  This seems to be a type of "irrealis" marker occurring in future, past, and hortatory situations.  Einaudi discussed it in terms of "hortatory," but it appears far more than in the contexts that she mentioned.  AND, I've noticed its usage seems to parallel that of a couple of other Native languages I'm familiar with: Rumsen (Ohlone) and Zoque (Mexico), in which an "irrealis" particle seems to indicate something happening "not in the here and now," meaning it can occur in past, future, or conditional situations.
   
  I'm wondering if anyone has studied this phenomenon in other Siouan languages (or geographically close languages like Caddo or Muskogean), and, for that matter, across Native American languages in general, since I'm seeing similar usages in 3 completely unrelated language families.
   
  Thanks.
   
  Dave
   
   

 
---------------------------------
The fish are biting.
 Get more visitors on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.
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From rankin at ku.edu  Tue May 29 17:24:44 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 12:24:44 -0500
Subject: Irrealis in Siouan
Message-ID: <TUE.29.MAY.2007.122444.0500.>

I can't think of anything that would be fully cognate right offhand.  There's the /hi/ that is part of causative *hi_(r)e, where the (r) is epenthetic.  JEK has suggested that this is a complementizer of some kind.  I'll let him explain the details, as I don't know where else /hi/ might occur as such.
 
Closer semantically is */iN/, which occurs compounded with irrealis */-kte/ in Dakotan and Winnebago.  Apparently it also occurs without /kte/ in Omaha and perhaps other languages and has some sort of irrealis meaning.  This is not properly cognate with Biloxi /hi/ because of the oral vowel in the latter.  The /h/ could be explained as a Biloxi reflex of /?/, as in /hoNni/ 'be, do'.  The Omaha use of /iN/ has been the subject of earlier correspondence on this list that can be found in the archives at Linguist List.  
 
That's the best I can do.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of David Kaufman
Sent: Tue 5/29/2007 11:47 AM
To: Siouan List
Subject: Irrealis in Siouan


Hi Siouanists:
 
I'm looking into a Biloxi particle (perhaps for another paper) which is 'hi'.  This seems to be a type of "irrealis" marker occurring in future, past, and hortatory situations.  Einaudi discussed it in terms of "hortatory," but it appears far more than in the contexts that she mentioned.  AND, I've noticed its usage seems to parallel that of a couple of other Native languages I'm familiar with: Rumsen (Ohlone) and Zoque (Mexico), in which an "irrealis" particle seems to indicate something happening "not in the here and now," meaning it can occur in past, future, or conditional situations.
 
I'm wondering if anyone has studied this phenomenon in other Siouan languages (or geographically close languages like Caddo or Muskogean), and, for that matter, across Native American languages in general, since I'm seeing similar usages in 3 completely unrelated language families.
 
Thanks.
 
Dave
 
 

________________________________

The fish are biting.
Get more visitors <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php?o=US2140&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Q107Tagline&s=Y&s2=EM&b=50>  on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing. <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49679/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/sponsoredsearch_v2.php?o=US2140&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Q107Tagline&s=Y&s2=EM&b=50> 


From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk  Tue May 29 21:25:37 2007
From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham)
Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 22:25:37 +0100
Subject: Irrealis in Siouan
In-Reply-To: <C70AC5440FBE564E828E8051E8D3CBE604489AA5@MAILBOXSIX.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.29.MAY.2007.222537.0100.>

-kte can occur in Lakota with the particle -tkha (often marking past habitual no longer operating), sometimes appearing as -tha or -kha which resembles the tukha conjunction meaning 'but', this then means 'would have, should have' as in
naksemayanpi-kta-tkha 'they would have hung me' or sometimes without the -kta as in 
wahi-s^ni-tkha 'i should not have come' .  Strangely enough a rather similar thing happens in Cree with the future prefix kaa(h)-, which can combine with a past marker ki(i)- giving kiispin.......namoya ota ki-kaah -apinaanaw 'if...........we would not be sitting here.'  There is some doubt as to whether these really are the future and past suffixes in this usage, but they certainly look like them.  they can be reversed giving such examples as pitaama kaa-kii-nanaaskomot 'they should thank him'

Bruce



"Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu> wrote: I can't think of anything that would be fully cognate right offhand.  There's the /hi/ that is part of causative *hi_(r)e, where the (r) is epenthetic.  JEK has suggested that this is a complementizer of some kind.  I'll let him explain the details, as I don't know where else /hi/ might occur as such.
 
Closer semantically is */iN/, which occurs compounded with irrealis */-kte/ in Dakotan and Winnebago.  Apparently it also occurs without /kte/ in Omaha and perhaps other languages and has some sort of irrealis meaning.  This is not properly cognate with Biloxi /hi/ because of the oral vowel in the latter.  The /h/ could be explained as a Biloxi reflex of /?/, as in /hoNni/ 'be, do'.  The Omaha use of /iN/ has been the subject of earlier correspondence on this list that can be found in the archives at Linguist List.  
 
That's the best I can do.
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of David Kaufman
Sent: Tue 5/29/2007 11:47 AM
To: Siouan List
Subject: Irrealis in Siouan


Hi Siouanists:
 
I'm looking into a Biloxi particle (perhaps for another paper) which is 'hi'.  This seems to be a type of "irrealis" marker occurring in future, past, and hortatory situations.  Einaudi discussed it in terms of "hortatory," but it appears far more than in the contexts that she mentioned.  AND, I've noticed its usage seems to parallel that of a couple of other Native languages I'm familiar with: Rumsen (Ohlone) and Zoque (Mexico), in which an "irrealis" particle seems to indicate something happening "not in the here and now," meaning it can occur in past, future, or conditional situations.
 
I'm wondering if anyone has studied this phenomenon in other Siouan languages (or geographically close languages like Caddo or Muskogean), and, for that matter, across Native American languages in general, since I'm seeing similar usages in 3 completely unrelated language families.
 
Thanks.
 
Dave
 
 

________________________________

The fish are biting.
Get more visitors   on your site using Yahoo! Search Marketing.  


 		
---------------------------------
 Now you can scan emails quickly with a reading pane. Get the new Yahoo! Mail.
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From marino at skyway.usask.ca  Thu May 31 05:20:00 2007
From: marino at skyway.usask.ca (Marino)
Date: Wed, 30 May 2007 23:20:00 -0600
Subject: obviation in Siouan languages
Message-ID: <WED.30.MAY.2007.232000.0600.>

There were two excellent papers on obviation in Cree at the CLA 
meetings.  One of the presenters asked me if there is obviation in any of 
the Siouan languages.  I have a vague memory that this has come up before, 
but I can't find time to troll through the archives.  Any suggestions?

Best
Mary Marino


From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu  Thu May 31 14:10:42 2007
From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:10:42 -0500
Subject: obviation in Siouan languages
In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20070530231654.021c5e78@sask.usask.ca>
Message-ID: <THU.31.MAY.2007.091042.0500.>


Mary, would you be willing to offer a brief explanation of what obviation
means in Algonquian?  There has certainly been a good deal of discussion
about a distinction, or a partially overlapping pair of distinctions, in
Omaha-Ponka, for which the categories "proximate" and "obviative" have been
proposed, I believe originally by John Koontz.  My understanding is that
there is some uncertainty as to whether the distinctions in question are
equivalent to the Algonquian distinction or not.

Thanks,
Rory
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From rankin at ku.edu  Thu May 31 18:53:52 2007
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:53:52 -0500
Subject: obviation in Siouan languages
Message-ID: <THU.31.MAY.2007.135352.0500.>

As Rory points out, Dhegiha languages have something very similar distinguishing primary from non-primary actors.  Ardis's dissertation was at least partly on this distinction in Omaha.  
 
I have toyed with the idea of trying to redefine the "switch-reference" distinction in those Siouan languages that have it as an obviation distinction.  Such redefinition clearly works in Muskogean, where it is the only way to tie "S-R" and argument marking particles together without a hopelessly complex appeal to homophony, but I haven't really gotten down to the business of trying to demonstrate it in Siouan.  Clearly the more inclusive concept of "referent tracking" operates in Siouan grammars, though it differs from language to language.  If I had to guess, I'd say it is historically primary in Algonquian but secondary in Siouan.
 
What were the papers you're referring to on Algonquian?
 
Bob

________________________________

From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Marino
Sent: Thu 5/31/2007 12:20 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: obviation in Siouan languages



There were two excellent papers on obviation in Cree at the CLA
meetings.  One of the presenters asked me if there is obviation in any of
the Siouan languages.  I have a vague memory that this has come up before,
but I can't find time to troll through the archives.  Any suggestions?

Best
Mary Marino


From goodtracks at peoplepc.com  Thu May 31 21:57:56 2007
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (goodtracks at peoplepc.com)
Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 16:57:56 -0500
Subject: Fw:  Omaha tribe Virtual museum
Message-ID: <THU.31.MAY.2007.165756.0500.>

An impressive site for Siouian languages and others.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Olson, Greg 
To: olybean at excite.com 
Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2007 3:52 PM
Subject: Omaha tribe Virtual museum


Here is a link for a nice online exhibit the Omaha did with the Nebraska State Historical Society and the University of Nebraska.  Greg

http://omahatribe.unl.edu/ 
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