From rankin at ku.edu Sat Sep 1 00:15:49 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:15:49 -0500 Subject: HAVE PITY Message-ID: I think what I'm suggesting is that udaN 'press into' and udaN 'be good, charitable' are homonyms. The argument rests on semantics/meaning. 'heart' + 'press into' doesn't make as good sense as 'heart' with a meaning more like Omaha udoN. Kaw and Omaha also have the root daN 'push' (badaN, yudaN, etc.). As far as I know it's pronounced the same as -daN 'good'. To differentiate them one has to appeal to meaning. Since I don't know I/O this can only be a suggestion. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Fri 8/31/2007 10:53 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Re: HAVE PITY Bob: I had already checked the root, which is -daN (move; press) and with the insep. prep "u- (in, into, within) does give: udáN (pressed towards). I also noted the root in the word awádaN (press on, press down on). An application of this word would be as in: pressing down on one's hair with the hand, OR pressing down on s.t. with the foot. And yes, the word is used as you say in the context of "bless" in prayer invocations and ceremonial use. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:12 AM Subject: RE: HAVE PITY Jimm, I'm not sure about the 3rd pl., but I'm wondering if the stem, /?udoN/, might not be more closely related to the Omaha and Ponca udoN that has more of a meaning like 'good', and in Kaw, 'good' or 'honorable'. In Kansa and Osage the verb often translated 'have pity' is used with the sense of 'bless' in prayers. But the root is different, /k?e/ with a causative. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Thu 8/30/2007 9:26 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: HAVE PITY Bob, John, Rory, Johannes and whoever: Below you see the conjugation in Ioway, Otoe for "have pity". Also, there are two of a number of examples of usage. I have in question the third person plural, which may be in error. The verb is composed from "náhje (heart)" and udán (be depressed toward). Would the 3PP be: nat^úndanwi = [nat^ + (hin-) + udán + wi] (I..., nat^úhadan; you..., nat^úradan; we..., hínnat^údanwi; they..., nat^údanñe). Nat^úhindañe ke, I am pitied. Nat^úrigradan ke, I took pity on you, my own one. I check for examples on Johannes HocakLex, but I found no examples. So I checked out examples taken from Radin: nadjirodja = take pity on; bless someone. nadjironidja na = I take pity on you; nadjiroradjagi = We take pity on you; nadjirodjana = They take pity on him; nadjirodjogi = They take pity on him; nadjodjapi ja = be pitied; nadjonidja = I pitied you; nadjonidja wina = we pity you; The above Hochank ~ Winnebago examples are not especially helpful in resolving my question above. Perhaps, in Dhegiha, there may be a better comparison. Jimm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM From okibjonathan at yahoo.com Sat Sep 1 15:28:56 2007 From: okibjonathan at yahoo.com (Jonathan Holmes) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 08:28:56 -0700 Subject: Osage name Message-ID: I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? Be a friend... Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Sun Sep 2 17:08:53 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 12:08:53 -0500 Subject: Osage name In-Reply-To: <382467.91232.qm@web50810.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ryan: Perhaps you can help with this request. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Holmes To: Siouan List Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: Osage name I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? Be a friend... Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmcbride at kawnation.com Tue Sep 4 13:43:33 2007 From: jmcbride at kawnation.com (Justin McBride) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 08:43:33 -0500 Subject: Osage name Message-ID: I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., -waðe, where ðe is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Holmes To: Siouan List Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: Osage name I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? Be a friend... Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 5 04:34:50 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 23:34:50 -0500 Subject: FW: Indigenous Nations Studies Assoc./Full Professor and Director Message-ID: Dear fellow Siouanists, Below is a job description for the directorship of the Indigenous Nations Studies Program at the University of Kansas. It is established at the associate or full professor grade, so I'm afraid it isn't for recent grads, but I hope someone among you might be interested. They very much need a linguist for their language track, which, in my opinion, has been languishing. Bob ________________________________ *Director & Associate/Full Professor, Indigenous Nations Studies Program.* The University of Kansas invites applications for a full-time Associate or Full Professor position and Director of the Indigenous Nations Studies Program The Director has primary responsibility for all aspects of the M.A. program focused on Indigenous Peoples worldwide (_http://indigenous.ku.edu_ ). This is a unique program with a global focus. The successful candidate will be appointed in the Indigenous Nations Studies Program with the possibility of a joint appointment in another academic unit. We invite applications from specialists in all fields whose scholarship relates to the program focus. The program focuses on the traditions, diversities, mechanisms for cultural survival, and aspirations for self-determination of Indigenous Peoples globally. The program is committed to the empowerment of Indigenous Peoples and their communities through the rigorous study of the complex problems and issues that face Indigenous cultures. For a complete position announcement and requirements, please refer to the CLA&S website at _www.clas.ku.edu_ >. *Application Procedures: * A complete dossier includes: a letter of application addressing the required/preferred qualifications; a brief statement outlining the candidate's vision for a globally focused Indigenous Nations Studies program; a c.v.; and at least 3 letters of recommendation (not to exceed 5). Send all materials to: Danny J. Anderson, Chair of Search Committee, Indigenous Nations Studies Program, University of Kansas, 1410 Jayhawk Blvd., Lippincott Hall #104, Lawrence, KS 66045-7515. Email inquires to _djand at ku.edu_ . Priority review of applications begins November 1, 2007. The University of Kansas is an EO/AA Employer and encourages applications from underrepresented group members. Allard Jongman Chair, Linguistics Department e-mail: jongman at ku.edu 422 Blake Hall phone: (785) 864-2384 1541 Lilac Lane fax: (785) 864-5724 University of Kansas www.linguistics.ku.edu Lawrence, KS 66044-3177 www.ku.edu/~kuppl From tmleonard at cox.net Wed Sep 5 14:02:10 2007 From: tmleonard at cox.net (Tom Leonard) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:02:10 -0500 Subject: Osage name In-Reply-To: <001901c7eef9$987cc690$1f21a8c0@LANGDIRECTOR> Message-ID: If you check on the Smithsonian website (http://siris-archives.si.edu/) you will find at least seven (7) photographs of this individual. Smithsonian has it listed as O-tho'-wa-the, or "Well to Follow". Also, if I am not mistaken the family has abbreviated the name and now goes by "Lohah". Hope this helps. Tom Leonard ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Justin McBride wrote: > I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage > Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched > that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., > -waðe, where ðe is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does > (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw > census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written > in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, > though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is > x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jonathan Holmes > *To:* Siouan List > *Sent:* Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM > *Subject:* Osage name > > I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from > Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. > > The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. > > Could anyone help with a possible translation? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Wed Sep 5 16:04:34 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:04:34 -0500 Subject: Fw: Osage name Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Red Corn To: Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Osage name La Fleshe's dictionary lists "O Tha ha mon in" as a personal name "The follower" i recognize those pictures i have seen them before and i have heard the last name Lohah ..but i dont know if there are any still around.. as for the name there was a man named Non.pah.wa.la which i think translates to causes fear or in pursuit of fear causing something along those lines but don't quote me . There is also an Osage family named Waller. Both are from Hominy. o.thon the best i can tell means something sought out, discover, find in something thats not plainly seen or for something to that effect dont quote me on this its all speculation at best for me On Sep 5, 2007, at 7:36 AM, Jimm GoodTracks wrote: Ryan: I thought that I 'd run this by you. I don't recall any families by the the name of Lohah. Have they died out? Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Leonard To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Cc: davnagle at juno.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:02 AM Subject: Re: Osage name If you check on the Smithsonian website (http://siris-archives.si.edu/) you will find at least seven (7) photographs of this individual. Smithsonian has it listed as O-tho'-wa-the, or "Well to Follow". Also, if I am not mistaken the family has abbreviated the name and now goes by "Lohah". Hope this helps. Tom Leonard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Justin McBride wrote: I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., -waðe, where ðe is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Holmes To: Siouan List Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: Osage name I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: 9/4/2007 10:36 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: 9/4/2007 10:36 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cqcqcq1 at earthlink.net Wed Sep 5 16:18:51 2007 From: cqcqcq1 at earthlink.net (Carolyn Quintero) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:18:51 -0700 Subject: Osage name In-Reply-To: <46DEB6E2.2050208@cox.net> Message-ID: othohawathe could be othahawathe, perhaps. o'thaha-wa-the follow- VAL-cause makes folks/others follow, perhaps a name for a person who 'inspires people to follow him'. but the o vs. a in the second syllable of 'follow' is a bit perplexing. Carolyn Quintero, PhD Inter Lingua, Inc. 1711 East 15th St. Tulsa OK 74104 2105 East Ocean Blvd #2 Long Beach CA 90803 tel 918 852 9860 cquintero at interlinguainc.com _____ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu [mailto:owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Leonard Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 7:02 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Cc: davnagle at juno.com Subject: Re: Osage name HYPERLINK "http://preview.artstor.org.ezproxy1.lib.ou.edu/SRU/validator.htm?id=%2FzJDc iJIKTMxKS8wdTs%3D&source=swr&sourceid=I10678"If you check on the Smithsonian website (HYPERLINK "http://siris-archives.si.edu/"http://siris-archives.si.edu/) you will find at least seven (7) photographs of this individual. Smithsonian has it listed as O-tho'-wa-the, or "Well to Follow". Also, if I am not mistaken the family has abbreviated the name and now goes by "Lohah". Hope this helps. Tom Leonard _____ Justin McBride wrote: I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., -waðe, where ðe is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. _____ ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:okibjonathan at yahoo.com"Jonathan Holmes To: HYPERLINK "mailto:siouan at lists.colorado.edu"Siouan List Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: Osage name I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? HYPERLINK "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48224/*http:/sims.yahoo.com/" No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/984 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 12:59 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/984 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 12:59 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tmleonard at cox.net Wed Sep 5 16:21:24 2007 From: tmleonard at cox.net (Tom Leonard) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:21:24 -0500 Subject: Fw: Osage name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Lohah family, I'm fairly sure, is from the Hominy district. Here's a photo of our friend Scott Lohah. The Hominy Friends, by the way, do lots of nice work for the Osage language.....not too mention their wonderful wild onion dinners in the Spring. They could use our support , so buy a cookbook or something! http://hominyfriends.org/gallery.html Jimm GoodTracks wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Ryan Red Corn > *To:* Jimm GoodTracks > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:36 PM > *Subject:* Re: Osage name > > La Fleshe's dictionary lists > > "O Tha ha mon in" as a personal name "The follower" > > i recognize those pictures i have seen them before and i have heard > the last name Lohah ..but i dont know if there are any still around.. > > as for the name there was a man named Non.pah.wa.la which i think > translates to causes fear or in pursuit of fear causing something > along those lines but don't quote me . There is also an Osage family > named Waller. Both are from Hominy. > > o.thon the best i can tell means something sought out, discover, find > in something thats not plainly seen or for something to that effect > > dont quote me on this its all speculation at best for me > > > On Sep 5, 2007, at 7:36 AM, Jimm GoodTracks wrote: > >> Ryan: >> I thought that I 'd run this by you. I don't recall any families by >> the the name of Lohah. Have they died out? >> Jimm >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Tom Leonard >> *To:* siouan at lists.colorado.edu >> *Cc:* davnagle at juno.com >> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:02 AM >> *Subject:* Re: Osage name >> >> If you check on the Smithsonian website >> (http://siris-archives.si.edu/) you will find at least seven (7) >> photographs of this individual. Smithsonian has it listed as >> O-tho'-wa-the, or "Well to Follow". >> >> Also, if I am not mistaken the family has abbreviated the name and >> now goes by "Lohah". >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Tom Leonard >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Justin McBride wrote: >>> I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage >>> Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched >>> that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., >>> -waðe, where ðe is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does >>> (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw >>> census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written >>> in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, >>> though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is >>> x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> *From:* Jonathan Holmes >>> *To:* Siouan List >>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM >>> *Subject:* Osage name >>> >>> I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from >>> Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. >>> >>> The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. >>> >>> Could anyone help with a possible translation? >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: >> 9/4/2007 10:36 PM > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: > 9/4/2007 10:36 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clarkbatson at hotmail.com Wed Sep 5 18:09:31 2007 From: clarkbatson at hotmail.com (Clark Batson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 13:09:31 -0500 Subject: Osage name In-Reply-To: <46DED784.1040607@cox.net> Message-ID: I'd say try contacting the Osage Nation Language Department. Here is the link. http://www.osagetribe.com/language/ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:21:24 -0500From: tmleonard at cox.netTo: siouan at lists.colorado.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Osage name The Lohah family, I'm fairly sure, is from the Hominy district.Here's a photo of our friend Scott Lohah. The Hominy Friends, by the way, do lots of nice work for the Osage language.....not too mention their wonderful wild onion dinners in the Spring. They could use our support , so buy a cookbook or something!http://hominyfriends.org/gallery.htmlJimm GoodTracks wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Red Corn To: Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Osage name La Fleshe's dictionary lists "O Tha ha mon in" as a personal name "The follower" i recognize those pictures i have seen them before and i have heard the last name Lohah ..but i dont know if there are any still around.. as for the name there was a man named Non.pah.wa.la which i think translates to causes fear or in pursuit of fear causing something along those lines but don't quote me . There is also an Osage family named Waller. Both are from Hominy. o.thon the best i can tell means something sought out, discover, find in something thats not plainly seen or for something to that effect dont quote me on this its all speculation at best for me On Sep 5, 2007, at 7:36 AM, Jimm GoodTracks wrote: Ryan: I thought that I 'd run this by you. I don't recall any families by the the name of Lohah. Have they died out? Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Leonard To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Cc: davnagle at juno.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:02 AM Subject: Re: Osage name If you check on the Smithsonian website (http://siris-archives.si.edu/) you will find at least seven (7) photographs of this individual. Smithsonian has it listed as O-tho'-wa-the, or "Well to Follow".Also, if I am not mistaken the family has abbreviated the name and now goes by "Lohah".Hope this helps.Tom Leonard Justin McBride wrote: I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., -waðe, where ðe is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Holmes To: Siouan List Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: Osage name I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: 9/4/2007 10:36 PM No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: 9/4/2007 10:36 PM _________________________________________________________________ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Tue Sep 11 22:20:47 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:20:47 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy Message-ID: John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taasára(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 12 14:51:06 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:51:06 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy Message-ID: No Siouan language has glottalized n's. How, exactly, did Dorsey write this? Could your glottal just be an accent mark? What Dorsey source is this? Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 5:20 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: Rich & Greasy John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taasára(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 12 14:59:16 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:59:16 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy Message-ID: I wonder if what Dorsey has isn't a variant of mi?*gri 'grease'. Earlier -gr- sometimes becomes -?w-. That would put the glottal AFTER the -aN- rather than before it. I can't account for the change of m- to n-. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 5:20 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: Rich & Greasy John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taasára(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Wed Sep 12 15:21:26 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:21:26 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: RE: Rich & Greasy No Siouan language has glottalized n's. How, exactly, did Dorsey write this? Could your glottal just be an accent mark? What Dorsey source is this? Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 5:20 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: Rich & Greasy John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taasára(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Wed Sep 12 15:33:44 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:33:44 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bob: Thewe are from Dorsey f ile slips on IOM. The slip only had the information I gave below. However, Dorsey notes on the slip that (Dh[egiha], n^aNbe), which nearly is a dublicate of his IOM entry. This is one of those times one would like to consult the late Elders. Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. In an 1880 Ioway census, there appears the personal name of a man. It is obviously a nick name or an "uncle's name". The man's name in Baxoje is "Greasy (Gráhune)" Gra' huN nye. Personally, I do not right off see a connection between the two terms. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: RE: Rich & Greasy No Siouan language has glottalized n's. How, exactly, did Dorsey write this? Could your glottal just be an accent mark? What Dorsey source is this? Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 5:20 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: Rich & Greasy John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taasára(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 12 18:55:06 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:55:06 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy Message-ID: Wow. Dorsey has some strange occasional uses of the backwards apostrophe he marks glottalization with, but I can't figure out this one, especially with the similar Omaha form (which looks for all the world like "hand" to me). I look forward to hearing from our Omahologists. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Wed 9/12/2007 10:33 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Rich & Greasy Bob: Thewe are from Dorsey f ile slips on IOM. The slip only had the information I gave below. However, Dorsey notes on the slip that (Dh[egiha], n^aNbe), which nearly is a dublicate of his IOM entry. This is one of those times one would like to consult the late Elders. Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. In an 1880 Ioway census, there appears the personal name of a man. It is obviously a nick name or an "uncle's name". The man's name in Baxoje is "Greasy (Gráhune)" Gra' huN nye. Personally, I do not right off see a connection between the two terms. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: RE: Rich & Greasy No Siouan language has glottalized n's. How, exactly, did Dorsey write this? Could your glottal just be an accent mark? What Dorsey source is this? Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 5:20 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: Rich & Greasy John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taasára(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 19 02:46:14 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:46:14 -0500 Subject: National Geographic on language endangerment. Message-ID: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/09/070918-languages-extinct.html From rankin at ku.edu Sun Sep 23 20:50:57 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:50:57 -0500 Subject: Mid America Conference registration. Message-ID: MALC is asking $45 for registration this year. You can click on "registration" at the following website for a form: http://www.linguistics.ku.edu/malc/index.htm That price is good until 12 Oct. Five bucks more thereafter. I still don't have a copy of the program or list of papers, but I'll post one as soon as I can lay my hands on it. Bob From linguista at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 21:38:47 2007 From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan Gordon) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:38:47 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Message-ID: I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erkü in her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erkü's proposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 25 23:50:28 2007 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:50:28 -0700 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm presenting a paper on Biloxi: An Analysis of Some Particles and Clitics in Biloxi, or some title of that nature. Dave Bryan Gordon wrote: I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erkü in her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erkü's proposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu Tue Sep 25 23:54:27 2007 From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:54:27 -0500 Subject: Embedded questions? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm going to follow up Bryan's inquiry with one of my own: Has anybody done anything with embedded questions in OP, or Siouan generally? I'm thinking of things in the nature of: "I don't know who it is", where the question is elevated to an item of information that is then fed to an information handling verb like 'know', 'think', 'tell', 'say', 'ask', and so forth. We've been exploring this with our speakers recently. I don't know if what we're getting is new, or old stuff that I just never paid attention to before. Cheers, Rory -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From okibjonathan at yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 11:08:53 2007 From: okibjonathan at yahoo.com (Jonathan Holmes) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 04:08:53 -0700 Subject: Lakota question Message-ID: How would you interpret the translation for this Lakota question: Takeniciyapi hwo? Be a friend... Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pustetrm at yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 13:41:06 2007 From: pustetrm at yahoo.com (REGINA PUSTET) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:41:06 -0700 Subject: Lakota question In-Reply-To: <874966.81320.qm@web50809.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It means 'what's your name'. taku e-ni-ci-ya-pi huwo? what say-2SG.PAT-to-say-PL question(male speaker) What is glossed as say-say are the two syllables of eya 'to say', a verb that takes infixes. ci- does not normally mean 'to', it is a fossilized benefactive marker. So the literal translation is 'what do they say to you?'. Regina --- Jonathan Holmes wrote: > How would you interpret the translation for this > Lakota question: > > Takeniciyapi hwo? > > > Be a friend... > Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, > go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - > their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658 From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu Wed Sep 26 13:43:22 2007 From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:43:22 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Message-ID: Bryan - Yes, it was "one of Rudin's papers" :-) Just an unpublished paper from Siouan & Caddoan Conference, 1998. "Postverbal Constituents in Omaha-Ponca". It's definitely a conference draft, not very polished, but I'll be happy to send you a copy. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about the problem. I'll be at MALC but not talking about Siouan - I'm giving a paper on Bulgarian/Balkan multiple wh relatives. Catherine >>> dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com 9/25/2007 6:50 PM >>> I'm presenting a paper on Biloxi: An Analysis of Some Particles and Clitics in Biloxi, or some title of that nature. Dave Bryan Gordon wrote: I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erkü in her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erkü's proposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu Wed Sep 26 13:45:56 2007 From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:45:56 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Message-ID: Bryan - here's that paper. Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: POSTV.DOC Type: application/msword Size: 33792 bytes Desc: not available URL: From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu Wed Sep 26 13:53:20 2007 From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:53:20 -0500 Subject: Embedded questions? Message-ID: Hi, Rory. I elicited a bunch of embedded questions in Omaha 20 years ago, but never wrote up anything on them. I think there are some examples in one or two of my clause-structure conference papers??? Haven't looked at it in a long time, and it would take me a while to dig through everything and find them. But I would LOVE to do it when I have time ... and would love to see what you're finding (as well as stuff on other languages). We'll have to talk. Catherine >>> rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu 9/25/2007 6:54 PM >>> I'm going to follow up Bryan's inquiry with one of my own: Has anybody done anything with embedded questions in OP, or Siouan generally? I'm thinking of things in the nature of: "I don't know who it is", where the question is elevated to an item of information that is then fed to an information handling verb like 'know', 'think', 'tell', 'say', 'ask', and so forth. We've been exploring this with our speakers recently. I don't know if what we're getting is new, or old stuff that I just never paid attention to before. Cheers, Rory -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 26 14:30:30 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:30:30 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Message-ID: I remember that paper, although I can't remember if it was one of the ones that was published. The Siouan Bibliography or Catherine can tell you. As I recall, in her elicited data she was getting something like 11% postposed subjects; far too many for afterthought alone. They also occur in Kaw, etc. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Tue 9/25/2007 4:38 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erkü in her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erkü's proposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu Wed Sep 26 16:12:47 2007 From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:12:47 -0500 Subject: Embedded questions? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Catherine, Cool!! I'd love to see what you found. I've just finished reading the paper you sent to Bryan a little earlier. If you have any papers on clause-structure, I'd certainly like to look at them. I think they'd be very relevant, even if they weren't specifically about embedded questions. Hope to see you soon! Rory "Catherine Rudin" To Sent by: owner-siouan at list cc s.colorado.edu Subject Re: Embedded questions? 09/26/2007 08:53 AM Please respond to siouan at lists.colo rado.edu Hi, Rory. I elicited a bunch of embedded questions in Omaha 20 years ago, but never wrote up anything on them. I think there are some examples in one or two of my clause-structure conference papers??? Haven't looked at it in a long time, and it would take me a while to dig through everything and find them. But I would LOVE to do it when I have time ... and would love to see what you're finding (as well as stuff on other languages). We'll have to talk. Catherine >>> rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu 9/25/2007 6:54 PM >>> I'm going to follow up Bryan's inquiry with one of my own: Has anybody done anything with embedded questions in OP, or Siouan generally? I'm thinking of things in the nature of: "I don't know who it is", where the question is elevated to an item of information that is then fed to an information handling verb like 'know', 'think', 'tell', 'say', 'ask', and so forth. We've been exploring this with our speakers recently. I don't know if what we're getting is new, or old stuff that I just never paid attention to before. Cheers, Rory -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: graycol.gif Type: image/gif Size: 105 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pic14295.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1255 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ecblank.gif Type: image/gif Size: 45 bytes Desc: not available URL: From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu Wed Sep 26 16:54:46 2007 From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:54:46 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Message-ID: Yes, "too many for afterthought alone" was my conclusion too. Beyond that it was pretty much a vague "some kind of topicality" idea. Incidentally, I just looked back at the paper I sent out earlier to remind myself what I said (oy - I'm getting feeble minded) and saw that the examples are practically illegible. I used fonts back then that my system no longer supports, and I suspect most of you guys also see an amusing array of hieroglyphics if you try to read it... Please accept my apologies. If anyone would like a corrected version, with examples in the current orthography, do let me know; I'm planning on fixing it right away, before I forget, and it won't take long. Catherine >>> rankin at ku.edu 9/26/2007 9:30 AM >>> I remember that paper, although I can't remember if it was one of the ones that was published. The Siouan Bibliography or Catherine can tell you. As I recall, in her elicited data she was getting something like 11% postposed subjects; far too many for afterthought alone. They also occur in Kaw, etc. Bob _____ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Tue 9/25/2007 4:38 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erkin her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erkproposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From STrechter at csuchico.edu Wed Sep 26 17:16:33 2007 From: STrechter at csuchico.edu (Trechter, Sara) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:16:33 -0700 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Adding to Bob's "etc." These afterthought NPs are also common in Mandan, and they occur after the illocutionary force indicators; they specify/emphasize the main referent in the sentence. Intonation contour makes it appear that they aren't "afterthoughts," but typically specify the exact reference of a subject or object pronoun. I was surprised by them, but Catherine's paper made them seem less abnormal :) sara ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu [mailto:owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu] On Behalf Of Catherine Rudin Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:55 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: RE: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Yes, "too many for afterthought alone" was my conclusion too. Beyond that it was pretty much a vague "some kind of topicality" idea. Incidentally, I just looked back at the paper I sent out earlier to remind myself what I said (oy - I'm getting feeble minded) and saw that the examples are practically illegible. I used fonts back then that my system no longer supports, and I suspect most of you guys also see an amusing array of hieroglyphics if you try to read it... Please accept my apologies. If anyone would like a corrected version, with examples in the current orthography, do let me know; I'm planning on fixing it right away, before I forget, and it won't take long. Catherine >>> rankin at ku.edu 9/26/2007 9:30 AM >>> I remember that paper, although I can't remember if it was one of the ones that was published. The Siouan Bibliography or Catherine can tell you. As I recall, in her elicited data she was getting something like 11% postposed subjects; far too many for afterthought alone. They also occur in Kaw, etc. Bob _____ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Tue 9/25/2007 4:38 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erkin her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erkproposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu Wed Sep 26 17:55:38 2007 From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:55:38 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Yes, "too many for afterthought alone" was my conclusion too. Beyond that it was pretty much a vague "some kind of topicality" idea. I thought your "heaviness" idea carried some weight too. > Incidentally, I just looked back at the paper I sent out earlier to remind myself what I said (oy - I'm getting feeble minded) and saw that the examples are practically illegible. I used fonts back then that my system no longer supports, and I suspect most of you guys also see an amusing array of hieroglyphics if you try to read it... Please accept my apologies. If anyone would like a corrected version, with examples in the current orthography, do let me know; I'm planning on fixing it right away, before I forget, and it won't take long. It seemed legible to me. { is used for esh, ` for ezh, bold d for ledh, bold g for g^, and 1 marks nasalization. The only thing I couldn't make out was a single case of [ used sentence-initially. Is that capital esh or ledh? Rory -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rgraczyk at aol.com Wed Sep 26 21:08:46 2007 From: rgraczyk at aol.com (rgraczyk at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:08:46 -0400 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? In-Reply-To: <15E29EFEC45DC34F8A91C46CBE80BF4424C0311A@ESCHE.csuchico.edu> Message-ID: Postposed NPs occurring after the illocutionary force markers are common in Crow.? To my way of thinking the question about whether they are just afterthoughts would be a matter of pragmatics.? I view them as syntactically part of the sentence. ? The topic of my MALC paper is "Word- and Morpheme-Level Code-Switching in Crow." ? Randy -----Original Message----- From: Trechter, Sara To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Sent: Wed, Sep 26 1:23 PM Subject: RE: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Adding to Bob's "etc."? These afterthought NPs are also common in Mandan, and they occur after the illocutionary force indicators; they specify/emphasize the main referent in the sentence.? Intonation contour makes it appear that they aren't "afterthoughts," but typically specify the exact reference of a subject or object pronoun.? I was surprised by them, but Catherine's paper made them seem less?abnormal :)? ? sara ? ? ? ? From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu [mailto:owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu] On Behalf Of Catherine Rudin Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:55 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: RE: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Yes, "too many for afterthought alone" was my conclusion too.? Beyond that it was pretty much a vague "some kind of topicality" idea.? ? Incidentally, I just looked back at the paper I sent out earlier to remind myself what I said (oy - I'm getting feeble minded) and saw that the examples are practically illegible.? I used fonts back then that my system no longer supports, and I suspect most of you guys also see an amusing array of hieroglyphics if you try to read it... Please accept my apologies.? If anyone would like a corrected version, with examples in the current orthography, do let me know; I'm planning on fixing it right away, before I forget, and it won't take long.? ? Catherine >>> rankin at ku.edu 9/26/2007 9:30 AM >>> I remember that paper, although I can't remember if it was one of the ones that was published. The Siouan Bibliography or Catherine can tell you. As I recall, in her elicited data she was getting something like 11% postposed subjects; far too many for afterthought alone. They also occur in Kaw, etc. Bob ?_____ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Tue 9/25/2007 4:38 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erkin her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erkproposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the fi rst weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 26 21:36:46 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:36:46 -0500 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. Message-ID: The MALC program just became available at: http://www.linguistics.ku.edu/malc/MALC2007program.pdf It looks as though there are 8 Siouan papers spread between 2 sessions. That's not as many as I'd hoped for, but I can't complain, since I didn't send an abstract myself (I've been very lazy this Summer). The motel that the conference flyer suggests is a very nice one overlooking the Kansas River and right downtown with adjacent restaurants and bars. But perhaps it's a little pricy for some. (Or maybe I'm just living in the past.) Maybe people can decide here on the list whether they'd all like to try to stay at the same place. It would facilitate socializing in the evenings. I only just now acquired the program, so I haven't planned any social events at all yet. One more thing. If any of you submitted an abstract that was turned down for any reason, please let me know off-list. I think they probably accepted them all, but I want to make it maximally unpleasant for some people if they didn't. :-) I had no part in the conference planning or the reading of abstracts, but I want to make certain everything remains on the up-and-up. Also, we (read: "you") should be thinking about where you would like to have the conference next year. We'll need to decide on that soon. For those of you not driving or renting a car, I'll try to help out with transportation during the conference. Best to all, Bob From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 23:06:59 2007 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:06:59 -0700 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bob, I can also assist with transportation locally and possibly from/to KCI. Dave "Rankin, Robert L" wrote: The MALC program just became available at: http://www.linguistics.ku.edu/malc/MALC2007program.pdf It looks as though there are 8 Siouan papers spread between 2 sessions. That's not as many as I'd hoped for, but I can't complain, since I didn't send an abstract myself (I've been very lazy this Summer). The motel that the conference flyer suggests is a very nice one overlooking the Kansas River and right downtown with adjacent restaurants and bars. But perhaps it's a little pricy for some. (Or maybe I'm just living in the past.) Maybe people can decide here on the list whether they'd all like to try to stay at the same place. It would facilitate socializing in the evenings. I only just now acquired the program, so I haven't planned any social events at all yet. One more thing. If any of you submitted an abstract that was turned down for any reason, please let me know off-list. I think they probably accepted them all, but I want to make it maximally unpleasant for some people if they didn't. :-) I had no part in the conference planning or the reading of abstracts, but I want to make certain everything remains on the up-and-up. Also, we (read: "you") should be thinking about where you would like to have the conference next year. We'll need to decide on that soon. For those of you not driving or renting a car, I'll try to help out with transportation during the conference. Best to all, Bob --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From okibjonathan at yahoo.com Thu Sep 27 10:43:08 2007 From: okibjonathan at yahoo.com (Jonathan Holmes) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:43:08 -0700 Subject: Lakota question In-Reply-To: <382860.92985.qm@web54602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you for responding so quickly. I appreciate your help. Jonathan REGINA PUSTET wrote: It means 'what's your name'. taku e-ni-ci-ya-pi huwo? what say-2SG.PAT-to-say-PL question(male speaker) What is glossed as say-say are the two syllables of eya 'to say', a verb that takes infixes. ci- does not normally mean 'to', it is a fossilized benefactive marker. So the literal translation is 'what do they say to you?'. Regina --- Jonathan Holmes wrote: > How would you interpret the translation for this > Lakota question: > > Takeniciyapi hwo? > > > Be a friend... > Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, > go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - > their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658 Be a friend... Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Thu Sep 27 13:16:40 2007 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 08:16:40 -0500 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Aloha All, Rory and I will be driving to the MALC on Thursday afternoon. We are booked into the conference hotel. Our paper is a progress report on the Omaha language and culture textbook, due for release fall 2009 from the Unversity of Nebraska Press. I see that we are scheduled to present first thing on Friday morning. Uthighide Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. http://omahalanguage.unl.edu Anthropology-Geography Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) University of Nebraska-Lincoln 841 Oldfather Hall Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 mawakuni-swetland2 at unl.edu Office: 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 ONska abthiN! Thi shti? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Sun Sep 30 21:42:17 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:42:17 -0500 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. Message-ID: There is also a paper on Pawnee phonology to cover the Caddoan angle of SCLC. That brings the total to 10. There is a 180 ft. hill to climb or pedal up between downtown and campus. I can't remember where Westminister Inn is though. It may already be on the hilltop. If there is a whole car-load of people coming in from the KC airport, I or others may be willing to drive over. It would be nice if we could bring at least 4 at once. Those renting cars at the airport might consider arranging to bring other passengers along too if possible. ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Sun 9/30/2007 3:08 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Siouan sessions at MALC. Bob (and everyone) - There are at least 9 Siouan talks, because mine is definitely on OP, even though it's apparently not in the Siouan session. I would KILL (or perhaps just pay well) for a ride from MCI (the airport) on Thursday that costs less than the $75 I'm looking at right now. While in-town I plan to rent a bike. FYI, I'm staying with Kevin Schluter, another grad student from my department, and hopefully some other Minnesotans as well, at the Westminster Inn, about a mile and a half from campus, which is about $60 per room right now. If anyone else wants to jump in on our room (there's room for two more), let me know. Kevin might also be interested in some of the social plannings Bob has mentioned. He's talking on Amharic, but we love him anyway. - BJG From linguista at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 20:08:48 2007 From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan Gordon) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:08:48 -0500 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bob (and everyone) - There are at least 9 Siouan talks, because mine is definitely on OP, even though it's apparently not in the Siouan session. I would KILL (or perhaps just pay well) for a ride from MCI (the airport) on Thursday that costs less than the $75 I'm looking at right now. While in-town I plan to rent a bike. FYI, I'm staying with Kevin Schluter, another grad student from my department, and hopefully some other Minnesotans as well, at the Westminster Inn, about a mile and a half from campus, which is about $60 per room right now. If anyone else wants to jump in on our room (there's room for two more), let me know. Kevin might also be interested in some of the social plannings Bob has mentioned. He's talking on Amharic, but we love him anyway. - BJG From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 30 23:40:35 2007 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:40:35 -0700 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: BJG and anyone else interested: As I said previously, I'll be willing to pick folks up from the airport as long as it doesn't conflict with class schedules. (I have room for 3 in my Saturn.) Not sure what day people are coming in, but I have no classes on Wednesday so would be pretty much open all day to pick up from KCI. (Just a small donation to cover gas expense would be much appreciated, which I'm sure would be much cheaper than a cab!) Thursday for me would be a problem however. Dave "Rankin, Robert L" wrote: There is also a paper on Pawnee phonology to cover the Caddoan angle of SCLC. That brings the total to 10. There is a 180 ft. hill to climb or pedal up between downtown and campus. I can't remember where Westminister Inn is though. It may already be on the hilltop. If there is a whole car-load of people coming in from the KC airport, I or others may be willing to drive over. It would be nice if we could bring at least 4 at once. Those renting cars at the airport might consider arranging to bring other passengers along too if possible. ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Sun 9/30/2007 3:08 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Siouan sessions at MALC. Bob (and everyone) - There are at least 9 Siouan talks, because mine is definitely on OP, even though it's apparently not in the Siouan session. I would KILL (or perhaps just pay well) for a ride from MCI (the airport) on Thursday that costs less than the $75 I'm looking at right now. While in-town I plan to rent a bike. FYI, I'm staying with Kevin Schluter, another grad student from my department, and hopefully some other Minnesotans as well, at the Westminster Inn, about a mile and a half from campus, which is about $60 per room right now. If anyone else wants to jump in on our room (there's room for two more), let me know. Kevin might also be interested in some of the social plannings Bob has mentioned. He's talking on Amharic, but we love him anyway. - BJG --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Sat Sep 1 00:15:49 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2007 19:15:49 -0500 Subject: HAVE PITY Message-ID: I think what I'm suggesting is that udaN 'press into' and udaN 'be good, charitable' are homonyms. The argument rests on semantics/meaning. 'heart' + 'press into' doesn't make as good sense as 'heart' with a meaning more like Omaha udoN. Kaw and Omaha also have the root daN 'push' (badaN, yudaN, etc.). As far as I know it's pronounced the same as -daN 'good'. To differentiate them one has to appeal to meaning. Since I don't know I/O this can only be a suggestion. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Fri 8/31/2007 10:53 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Re: HAVE PITY Bob: I had already checked the root, which is -daN (move; press) and with the insep. prep "u- (in, into, within) does give: ud?N (pressed towards). I also noted the root in the word aw?daN (press on, press down on). An application of this word would be as in: pressing down on one's hair with the hand, OR pressing down on s.t. with the foot. And yes, the word is used as you say in the context of "bless" in prayer invocations and ceremonial use. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Friday, August 31, 2007 10:12 AM Subject: RE: HAVE PITY Jimm, I'm not sure about the 3rd pl., but I'm wondering if the stem, /?udoN/, might not be more closely related to the Omaha and Ponca udoN that has more of a meaning like 'good', and in Kaw, 'good' or 'honorable'. In Kansa and Osage the verb often translated 'have pity' is used with the sense of 'bless' in prayers. But the root is different, /k?e/ with a causative. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Thu 8/30/2007 9:26 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: HAVE PITY Bob, John, Rory, Johannes and whoever: Below you see the conjugation in Ioway, Otoe for "have pity". Also, there are two of a number of examples of usage. I have in question the third person plural, which may be in error. The verb is composed from "n?hje (heart)" and ud?n (be depressed toward). Would the 3PP be: nat^?ndanwi = [nat^ + (hin-) + ud?n + wi] (I..., nat^?hadan; you..., nat^?radan; we..., h?nnat^?danwi; they..., nat^?dan?e). Nat^?hinda?e ke, I am pitied. Nat^?rigradan ke, I took pity on you, my own one. I check for examples on Johannes HocakLex, but I found no examples. So I checked out examples taken from Radin: nadjirodja = take pity on; bless someone. nadjironidja na = I take pity on you; nadjiroradjagi = We take pity on you; nadjirodjana = They take pity on him; nadjirodjogi = They take pity on him; nadjodjapi ja = be pitied; nadjonidja = I pitied you; nadjonidja wina = we pity you; The above Hochank ~ Winnebago examples are not especially helpful in resolving my question above. Perhaps, in Dhegiha, there may be a better comparison. Jimm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM From okibjonathan at yahoo.com Sat Sep 1 15:28:56 2007 From: okibjonathan at yahoo.com (Jonathan Holmes) Date: Sat, 1 Sep 2007 08:28:56 -0700 Subject: Osage name Message-ID: I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? Be a friend... Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Sun Sep 2 17:08:53 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2007 12:08:53 -0500 Subject: Osage name In-Reply-To: <382467.91232.qm@web50810.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Ryan: Perhaps you can help with this request. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Holmes To: Siouan List Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: Osage name I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? Be a friend... Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.1/981 - Release Date: 8/31/2007 6:13 AM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmcbride at kawnation.com Tue Sep 4 13:43:33 2007 From: jmcbride at kawnation.com (Justin McBride) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 08:43:33 -0500 Subject: Osage name Message-ID: I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., -wa?e, where ?e is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Holmes To: Siouan List Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: Osage name I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? Be a friend... Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 5 04:34:50 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 23:34:50 -0500 Subject: FW: Indigenous Nations Studies Assoc./Full Professor and Director Message-ID: Dear fellow Siouanists, Below is a job description for the directorship of the Indigenous Nations Studies Program at the University of Kansas. It is established at the associate or full professor grade, so I'm afraid it isn't for recent grads, but I hope someone among you might be interested. They very much need a linguist for their language track, which, in my opinion, has been languishing. Bob ________________________________ *Director & Associate/Full Professor, Indigenous Nations Studies Program.* The University of Kansas invites applications for a full-time Associate or Full Professor position and Director of the Indigenous Nations Studies Program The Director has primary responsibility for all aspects of the M.A. program focused on Indigenous Peoples worldwide (_http://indigenous.ku.edu_ ). This is a unique program with a global focus. The successful candidate will be appointed in the Indigenous Nations Studies Program with the possibility of a joint appointment in another academic unit. We invite applications from specialists in all fields whose scholarship relates to the program focus. The program focuses on the traditions, diversities, mechanisms for cultural survival, and aspirations for self-determination of Indigenous Peoples globally. The program is committed to the empowerment of Indigenous Peoples and their communities through the rigorous study of the complex problems and issues that face Indigenous cultures. For a complete position announcement and requirements, please refer to the CLA&S website at _www.clas.ku.edu_ >. *Application Procedures: * A complete dossier includes: a letter of application addressing the required/preferred qualifications; a brief statement outlining the candidate's vision for a globally focused Indigenous Nations Studies program; a c.v.; and at least 3 letters of recommendation (not to exceed 5). Send all materials to: Danny J. Anderson, Chair of Search Committee, Indigenous Nations Studies Program, University of Kansas, 1410 Jayhawk Blvd., Lippincott Hall #104, Lawrence, KS 66045-7515. Email inquires to _djand at ku.edu_ . Priority review of applications begins November 1, 2007. The University of Kansas is an EO/AA Employer and encourages applications from underrepresented group members. Allard Jongman Chair, Linguistics Department e-mail: jongman at ku.edu 422 Blake Hall phone: (785) 864-2384 1541 Lilac Lane fax: (785) 864-5724 University of Kansas www.linguistics.ku.edu Lawrence, KS 66044-3177 www.ku.edu/~kuppl From tmleonard at cox.net Wed Sep 5 14:02:10 2007 From: tmleonard at cox.net (Tom Leonard) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:02:10 -0500 Subject: Osage name In-Reply-To: <001901c7eef9$987cc690$1f21a8c0@LANGDIRECTOR> Message-ID: If you check on the Smithsonian website (http://siris-archives.si.edu/) you will find at least seven (7) photographs of this individual. Smithsonian has it listed as O-tho'-wa-the, or "Well to Follow". Also, if I am not mistaken the family has abbreviated the name and now goes by "Lohah". Hope this helps. Tom Leonard ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Justin McBride wrote: > I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage > Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched > that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., > -wa?e, where ?e is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does > (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw > census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written > in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, > though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is > x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- > > *From:* Jonathan Holmes > *To:* Siouan List > *Sent:* Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM > *Subject:* Osage name > > I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from > Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. > > The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. > > Could anyone help with a possible translation? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Wed Sep 5 16:04:34 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:04:34 -0500 Subject: Fw: Osage name Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Red Corn To: Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Osage name La Fleshe's dictionary lists "O Tha ha mon in" as a personal name "The follower" i recognize those pictures i have seen them before and i have heard the last name Lohah ..but i dont know if there are any still around.. as for the name there was a man named Non.pah.wa.la which i think translates to causes fear or in pursuit of fear causing something along those lines but don't quote me . There is also an Osage family named Waller. Both are from Hominy. o.thon the best i can tell means something sought out, discover, find in something thats not plainly seen or for something to that effect dont quote me on this its all speculation at best for me On Sep 5, 2007, at 7:36 AM, Jimm GoodTracks wrote: Ryan: I thought that I 'd run this by you. I don't recall any families by the the name of Lohah. Have they died out? Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Leonard To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Cc: davnagle at juno.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:02 AM Subject: Re: Osage name If you check on the Smithsonian website (http://siris-archives.si.edu/) you will find at least seven (7) photographs of this individual. Smithsonian has it listed as O-tho'-wa-the, or "Well to Follow". Also, if I am not mistaken the family has abbreviated the name and now goes by "Lohah". Hope this helps. Tom Leonard ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Justin McBride wrote: I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., -wa?e, where ?e is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Holmes To: Siouan List Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: Osage name I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: 9/4/2007 10:36 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: 9/4/2007 10:36 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cqcqcq1 at earthlink.net Wed Sep 5 16:18:51 2007 From: cqcqcq1 at earthlink.net (Carolyn Quintero) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 09:18:51 -0700 Subject: Osage name In-Reply-To: <46DEB6E2.2050208@cox.net> Message-ID: othohawathe could be othahawathe, perhaps. o'thaha-wa-the follow- VAL-cause makes folks/others follow, perhaps a name for a person who 'inspires people to follow him'. but the o vs. a in the second syllable of 'follow' is a bit perplexing. Carolyn Quintero, PhD Inter Lingua, Inc. 1711 East 15th St. Tulsa OK 74104 2105 East Ocean Blvd #2 Long Beach CA 90803 tel 918 852 9860 cquintero at interlinguainc.com _____ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu [mailto:owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu] On Behalf Of Tom Leonard Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 7:02 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Cc: davnagle at juno.com Subject: Re: Osage name HYPERLINK "http://preview.artstor.org.ezproxy1.lib.ou.edu/SRU/validator.htm?id=%2FzJDc iJIKTMxKS8wdTs%3D&source=swr&sourceid=I10678"If you check on the Smithsonian website (HYPERLINK "http://siris-archives.si.edu/"http://siris-archives.si.edu/) you will find at least seven (7) photographs of this individual. Smithsonian has it listed as O-tho'-wa-the, or "Well to Follow". Also, if I am not mistaken the family has abbreviated the name and now goes by "Lohah". Hope this helps. Tom Leonard _____ Justin McBride wrote: I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., -wa?e, where ?e is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. _____ ----- Original Message ----- From: HYPERLINK "mailto:okibjonathan at yahoo.com"Jonathan Holmes To: HYPERLINK "mailto:siouan at lists.colorado.edu"Siouan List Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: Osage name I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? HYPERLINK "http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=48224/*http:/sims.yahoo.com/" No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/984 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 12:59 PM No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.484 / Virus Database: 269.13.2/984 - Release Date: 9/2/2007 12:59 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tmleonard at cox.net Wed Sep 5 16:21:24 2007 From: tmleonard at cox.net (Tom Leonard) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:21:24 -0500 Subject: Fw: Osage name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The Lohah family, I'm fairly sure, is from the Hominy district. Here's a photo of our friend Scott Lohah. The Hominy Friends, by the way, do lots of nice work for the Osage language.....not too mention their wonderful wild onion dinners in the Spring. They could use our support , so buy a cookbook or something! http://hominyfriends.org/gallery.html Jimm GoodTracks wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Ryan Red Corn > *To:* Jimm GoodTracks > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:36 PM > *Subject:* Re: Osage name > > La Fleshe's dictionary lists > > "O Tha ha mon in" as a personal name "The follower" > > i recognize those pictures i have seen them before and i have heard > the last name Lohah ..but i dont know if there are any still around.. > > as for the name there was a man named Non.pah.wa.la which i think > translates to causes fear or in pursuit of fear causing something > along those lines but don't quote me . There is also an Osage family > named Waller. Both are from Hominy. > > o.thon the best i can tell means something sought out, discover, find > in something thats not plainly seen or for something to that effect > > dont quote me on this its all speculation at best for me > > > On Sep 5, 2007, at 7:36 AM, Jimm GoodTracks wrote: > >> Ryan: >> I thought that I 'd run this by you. I don't recall any families by >> the the name of Lohah. Have they died out? >> Jimm >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Tom Leonard >> *To:* siouan at lists.colorado.edu >> *Cc:* davnagle at juno.com >> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:02 AM >> *Subject:* Re: Osage name >> >> If you check on the Smithsonian website >> (http://siris-archives.si.edu/) you will find at least seven (7) >> photographs of this individual. Smithsonian has it listed as >> O-tho'-wa-the, or "Well to Follow". >> >> Also, if I am not mistaken the family has abbreviated the name and >> now goes by "Lohah". >> >> Hope this helps. >> >> Tom Leonard >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> Justin McBride wrote: >>> I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage >>> Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched >>> that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., >>> -wa?e, where ?e is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does >>> (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw >>> census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written >>> in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, >>> though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is >>> x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ----- Original Message ----- >>> >>> *From:* Jonathan Holmes >>> *To:* Siouan List >>> *Sent:* Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM >>> *Subject:* Osage name >>> >>> I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from >>> Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. >>> >>> The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. >>> >>> Could anyone help with a possible translation? >>> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: >> 9/4/2007 10:36 PM > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: > 9/4/2007 10:36 PM -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clarkbatson at hotmail.com Wed Sep 5 18:09:31 2007 From: clarkbatson at hotmail.com (Clark Batson) Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 13:09:31 -0500 Subject: Osage name In-Reply-To: <46DED784.1040607@cox.net> Message-ID: I'd say try contacting the Osage Nation Language Department. Here is the link. http://www.osagetribe.com/language/ Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2007 11:21:24 -0500From: tmleonard at cox.netTo: siouan at lists.colorado.eduSubject: Re: Fw: Osage name The Lohah family, I'm fairly sure, is from the Hominy district.Here's a photo of our friend Scott Lohah. The Hominy Friends, by the way, do lots of nice work for the Osage language.....not too mention their wonderful wild onion dinners in the Spring. They could use our support , so buy a cookbook or something!http://hominyfriends.org/gallery.htmlJimm GoodTracks wrote: ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Red Corn To: Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 12:36 PM Subject: Re: Osage name La Fleshe's dictionary lists "O Tha ha mon in" as a personal name "The follower" i recognize those pictures i have seen them before and i have heard the last name Lohah ..but i dont know if there are any still around.. as for the name there was a man named Non.pah.wa.la which i think translates to causes fear or in pursuit of fear causing something along those lines but don't quote me . There is also an Osage family named Waller. Both are from Hominy. o.thon the best i can tell means something sought out, discover, find in something thats not plainly seen or for something to that effect dont quote me on this its all speculation at best for me On Sep 5, 2007, at 7:36 AM, Jimm GoodTracks wrote: Ryan: I thought that I 'd run this by you. I don't recall any families by the the name of Lohah. Have they died out? Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom Leonard To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Cc: davnagle at juno.com Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2007 9:02 AM Subject: Re: Osage name If you check on the Smithsonian website (http://siris-archives.si.edu/) you will find at least seven (7) photographs of this individual. Smithsonian has it listed as O-tho'-wa-the, or "Well to Follow".Also, if I am not mistaken the family has abbreviated the name and now goes by "Lohah".Hope this helps.Tom Leonard Justin McBride wrote: I'm not near my Osage names book right now (Louis Burns's "Osage Indian Bands and Clans"), but I can tell you from having researched that book fairly extensively that -walla is a causative form, i.e., -wa?e, where ?e is the causative and wa- is doing whatever wa- does (valence reduction). I've noticed the same phenomenon in old Kaw census data, where the name noNppe-waye ('inspires fear') is written in Agent-ese as No-pah-walla. Not so sure what olohah would be, though. Oloha/e? Aloha/e? And maybe the l is kl, maybe the h is x... It could be any number of things, I suppose. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Holmes To: Siouan List Sent: Saturday, September 01, 2007 10:28 AM Subject: Osage name I'm looking for a translation to the name of an Osage man from Pawhuska, OK who lived in the late 1800s. The name is Olohawalla. Perhaps seperated as O-Lohah-Walla. Could anyone help with a possible translation? No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: 9/4/2007 10:36 PM No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.5/990 - Release Date: 9/4/2007 10:36 PM _________________________________________________________________ Explore the seven wonders of the world http://search.msn.com/results.aspx?q=7+wonders+world&mkt=en-US&form=QBRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Tue Sep 11 22:20:47 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Tue, 11 Sep 2007 17:20:47 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy Message-ID: John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taas?ra(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 12 14:51:06 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:51:06 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy Message-ID: No Siouan language has glottalized n's. How, exactly, did Dorsey write this? Could your glottal just be an accent mark? What Dorsey source is this? Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 5:20 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: Rich & Greasy John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taas?ra(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 12 14:59:16 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 09:59:16 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy Message-ID: I wonder if what Dorsey has isn't a variant of mi?*gri 'grease'. Earlier -gr- sometimes becomes -?w-. That would put the glottal AFTER the -aN- rather than before it. I can't account for the change of m- to n-. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 5:20 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: Rich & Greasy John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taas?ra(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Wed Sep 12 15:21:26 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:21:26 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: RE: Rich & Greasy No Siouan language has glottalized n's. How, exactly, did Dorsey write this? Could your glottal just be an accent mark? What Dorsey source is this? Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 5:20 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: Rich & Greasy John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taas?ra(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM From goodtracks at peoplepc.com Wed Sep 12 15:33:44 2007 From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 10:33:44 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bob: Thewe are from Dorsey f ile slips on IOM. The slip only had the information I gave below. However, Dorsey notes on the slip that (Dh[egiha], n^aNbe), which nearly is a dublicate of his IOM entry. This is one of those times one would like to consult the late Elders. Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. In an 1880 Ioway census, there appears the personal name of a man. It is obviously a nick name or an "uncle's name". The man's name in Baxoje is "Greasy (Gr?hune)" Gra' huN nye. Personally, I do not right off see a connection between the two terms. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: RE: Rich & Greasy No Siouan language has glottalized n's. How, exactly, did Dorsey write this? Could your glottal just be an accent mark? What Dorsey source is this? Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 5:20 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: Rich & Greasy John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taas?ra(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 12 18:55:06 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 12 Sep 2007 13:55:06 -0500 Subject: Rich & Greasy Message-ID: Wow. Dorsey has some strange occasional uses of the backwards apostrophe he marks glottalization with, but I can't figure out this one, especially with the similar Omaha form (which looks for all the world like "hand" to me). I look forward to hearing from our Omahologists. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Wed 9/12/2007 10:33 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Rich & Greasy Bob: Thewe are from Dorsey f ile slips on IOM. The slip only had the information I gave below. However, Dorsey notes on the slip that (Dh[egiha], n^aNbe), which nearly is a dublicate of his IOM entry. This is one of those times one would like to consult the late Elders. Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. In an 1880 Ioway census, there appears the personal name of a man. It is obviously a nick name or an "uncle's name". The man's name in Baxoje is "Greasy (Gr?hune)" Gra' huN nye. Personally, I do not right off see a connection between the two terms. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 12, 2007 9:51 AM Subject: RE: Rich & Greasy No Siouan language has glottalized n's. How, exactly, did Dorsey write this? Could your glottal just be an accent mark? What Dorsey source is this? Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks Sent: Tue 9/11/2007 5:20 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.ed Subject: Rich & Greasy John, Mark: Dorsey provided a term: n?aNwe, adj., "rich as in greasy food. wayuwe n?aNwe ke, the marrow is rich. There are no N + glottal in IOM. I checked in Radin's materials and found for "greasy". RADIN = sara, sarak, dasaraxji. MINER= taas?ra(xjiN) "greasy of kettles" SWEATLAND = we'gathi (grease); shnishnide the ~ gaxe What do you suggest in the original IOM word? Jimm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.15/1003 - Release Date: 9/12/2007 10:56 AM From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 19 02:46:14 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2007 21:46:14 -0500 Subject: National Geographic on language endangerment. Message-ID: http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/09/070918-languages-extinct.html From rankin at ku.edu Sun Sep 23 20:50:57 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2007 15:50:57 -0500 Subject: Mid America Conference registration. Message-ID: MALC is asking $45 for registration this year. You can click on "registration" at the following website for a form: http://www.linguistics.ku.edu/malc/index.htm That price is good until 12 Oct. Five bucks more thereafter. I still don't have a copy of the program or list of papers, but I'll post one as soon as I can lay my hands on it. Bob From linguista at gmail.com Tue Sep 25 21:38:47 2007 From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan Gordon) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:38:47 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Message-ID: I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erk? in her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erk?'s proposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Tue Sep 25 23:50:28 2007 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 16:50:28 -0700 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm presenting a paper on Biloxi: An Analysis of Some Particles and Clitics in Biloxi, or some title of that nature. Dave Bryan Gordon wrote: I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erk? in her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erk?'s proposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu Tue Sep 25 23:54:27 2007 From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson) Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2007 18:54:27 -0500 Subject: Embedded questions? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I'm going to follow up Bryan's inquiry with one of my own: Has anybody done anything with embedded questions in OP, or Siouan generally? I'm thinking of things in the nature of: "I don't know who it is", where the question is elevated to an item of information that is then fed to an information handling verb like 'know', 'think', 'tell', 'say', 'ask', and so forth. We've been exploring this with our speakers recently. I don't know if what we're getting is new, or old stuff that I just never paid attention to before. Cheers, Rory -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From okibjonathan at yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 11:08:53 2007 From: okibjonathan at yahoo.com (Jonathan Holmes) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 04:08:53 -0700 Subject: Lakota question Message-ID: How would you interpret the translation for this Lakota question: Takeniciyapi hwo? Be a friend... Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pustetrm at yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 13:41:06 2007 From: pustetrm at yahoo.com (REGINA PUSTET) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 06:41:06 -0700 Subject: Lakota question In-Reply-To: <874966.81320.qm@web50809.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It means 'what's your name'. taku e-ni-ci-ya-pi huwo? what say-2SG.PAT-to-say-PL question(male speaker) What is glossed as say-say are the two syllables of eya 'to say', a verb that takes infixes. ci- does not normally mean 'to', it is a fossilized benefactive marker. So the literal translation is 'what do they say to you?'. Regina --- Jonathan Holmes wrote: > How would you interpret the translation for this > Lakota question: > > Takeniciyapi hwo? > > > Be a friend... > Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, > go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - > their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658 From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu Wed Sep 26 13:43:22 2007 From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:43:22 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Message-ID: Bryan - Yes, it was "one of Rudin's papers" :-) Just an unpublished paper from Siouan & Caddoan Conference, 1998. "Postverbal Constituents in Omaha-Ponca". It's definitely a conference draft, not very polished, but I'll be happy to send you a copy. Looking forward to hearing what you have to say about the problem. I'll be at MALC but not talking about Siouan - I'm giving a paper on Bulgarian/Balkan multiple wh relatives. Catherine >>> dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com 9/25/2007 6:50 PM >>> I'm presenting a paper on Biloxi: An Analysis of Some Particles and Clitics in Biloxi, or some title of that nature. Dave Bryan Gordon wrote: I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erk? in her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erk?'s proposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu Wed Sep 26 13:45:56 2007 From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:45:56 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Message-ID: Bryan - here's that paper. Catherine -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: POSTV.DOC Type: application/msword Size: 33792 bytes Desc: not available URL: From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu Wed Sep 26 13:53:20 2007 From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 08:53:20 -0500 Subject: Embedded questions? Message-ID: Hi, Rory. I elicited a bunch of embedded questions in Omaha 20 years ago, but never wrote up anything on them. I think there are some examples in one or two of my clause-structure conference papers??? Haven't looked at it in a long time, and it would take me a while to dig through everything and find them. But I would LOVE to do it when I have time ... and would love to see what you're finding (as well as stuff on other languages). We'll have to talk. Catherine >>> rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu 9/25/2007 6:54 PM >>> I'm going to follow up Bryan's inquiry with one of my own: Has anybody done anything with embedded questions in OP, or Siouan generally? I'm thinking of things in the nature of: "I don't know who it is", where the question is elevated to an item of information that is then fed to an information handling verb like 'know', 'think', 'tell', 'say', 'ask', and so forth. We've been exploring this with our speakers recently. I don't know if what we're getting is new, or old stuff that I just never paid attention to before. Cheers, Rory -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 26 14:30:30 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 09:30:30 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Message-ID: I remember that paper, although I can't remember if it was one of the ones that was published. The Siouan Bibliography or Catherine can tell you. As I recall, in her elicited data she was getting something like 11% postposed subjects; far too many for afterthought alone. They also occur in Kaw, etc. Bob ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Tue 9/25/2007 4:38 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erk? in her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erk?'s proposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu Wed Sep 26 16:12:47 2007 From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:12:47 -0500 Subject: Embedded questions? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi Catherine, Cool!! I'd love to see what you found. I've just finished reading the paper you sent to Bryan a little earlier. If you have any papers on clause-structure, I'd certainly like to look at them. I think they'd be very relevant, even if they weren't specifically about embedded questions. Hope to see you soon! Rory "Catherine Rudin" To Sent by: owner-siouan at list cc s.colorado.edu Subject Re: Embedded questions? 09/26/2007 08:53 AM Please respond to siouan at lists.colo rado.edu Hi, Rory. I elicited a bunch of embedded questions in Omaha 20 years ago, but never wrote up anything on them. I think there are some examples in one or two of my clause-structure conference papers??? Haven't looked at it in a long time, and it would take me a while to dig through everything and find them. But I would LOVE to do it when I have time ... and would love to see what you're finding (as well as stuff on other languages). We'll have to talk. Catherine >>> rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu 9/25/2007 6:54 PM >>> I'm going to follow up Bryan's inquiry with one of my own: Has anybody done anything with embedded questions in OP, or Siouan generally? I'm thinking of things in the nature of: "I don't know who it is", where the question is elevated to an item of information that is then fed to an information handling verb like 'know', 'think', 'tell', 'say', 'ask', and so forth. We've been exploring this with our speakers recently. I don't know if what we're getting is new, or old stuff that I just never paid attention to before. Cheers, Rory -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: graycol.gif Type: image/gif Size: 105 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pic14295.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1255 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ecblank.gif Type: image/gif Size: 45 bytes Desc: not available URL: From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu Wed Sep 26 16:54:46 2007 From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 11:54:46 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Message-ID: Yes, "too many for afterthought alone" was my conclusion too. Beyond that it was pretty much a vague "some kind of topicality" idea. Incidentally, I just looked back at the paper I sent out earlier to remind myself what I said (oy - I'm getting feeble minded) and saw that the examples are practically illegible. I used fonts back then that my system no longer supports, and I suspect most of you guys also see an amusing array of hieroglyphics if you try to read it... Please accept my apologies. If anyone would like a corrected version, with examples in the current orthography, do let me know; I'm planning on fixing it right away, before I forget, and it won't take long. Catherine >>> rankin at ku.edu 9/26/2007 9:30 AM >>> I remember that paper, although I can't remember if it was one of the ones that was published. The Siouan Bibliography or Catherine can tell you. As I recall, in her elicited data she was getting something like 11% postposed subjects; far too many for afterthought alone. They also occur in Kaw, etc. Bob _____ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Tue 9/25/2007 4:38 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erkin her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erkproposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From STrechter at csuchico.edu Wed Sep 26 17:16:33 2007 From: STrechter at csuchico.edu (Trechter, Sara) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:16:33 -0700 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Adding to Bob's "etc." These afterthought NPs are also common in Mandan, and they occur after the illocutionary force indicators; they specify/emphasize the main referent in the sentence. Intonation contour makes it appear that they aren't "afterthoughts," but typically specify the exact reference of a subject or object pronoun. I was surprised by them, but Catherine's paper made them seem less abnormal :) sara ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu [mailto:owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu] On Behalf Of Catherine Rudin Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:55 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: RE: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Yes, "too many for afterthought alone" was my conclusion too. Beyond that it was pretty much a vague "some kind of topicality" idea. Incidentally, I just looked back at the paper I sent out earlier to remind myself what I said (oy - I'm getting feeble minded) and saw that the examples are practically illegible. I used fonts back then that my system no longer supports, and I suspect most of you guys also see an amusing array of hieroglyphics if you try to read it... Please accept my apologies. If anyone would like a corrected version, with examples in the current orthography, do let me know; I'm planning on fixing it right away, before I forget, and it won't take long. Catherine >>> rankin at ku.edu 9/26/2007 9:30 AM >>> I remember that paper, although I can't remember if it was one of the ones that was published. The Siouan Bibliography or Catherine can tell you. As I recall, in her elicited data she was getting something like 11% postposed subjects; far too many for afterthought alone. They also occur in Kaw, etc. Bob _____ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Tue 9/25/2007 4:38 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erkin her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erkproposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the first weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu Wed Sep 26 17:55:38 2007 From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 12:55:38 -0500 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Yes, "too many for afterthought alone" was my conclusion too. Beyond that it was pretty much a vague "some kind of topicality" idea. I thought your "heaviness" idea carried some weight too. > Incidentally, I just looked back at the paper I sent out earlier to remind myself what I said (oy - I'm getting feeble minded) and saw that the examples are practically illegible. I used fonts back then that my system no longer supports, and I suspect most of you guys also see an amusing array of hieroglyphics if you try to read it... Please accept my apologies. If anyone would like a corrected version, with examples in the current orthography, do let me know; I'm planning on fixing it right away, before I forget, and it won't take long. It seemed legible to me. { is used for esh, ` for ezh, bold d for ledh, bold g for g^, and 1 marks nasalization. The only thing I couldn't make out was a single case of [ used sentence-initially. Is that capital esh or ledh? Rory -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rgraczyk at aol.com Wed Sep 26 21:08:46 2007 From: rgraczyk at aol.com (rgraczyk at aol.com) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 17:08:46 -0400 Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? In-Reply-To: <15E29EFEC45DC34F8A91C46CBE80BF4424C0311A@ESCHE.csuchico.edu> Message-ID: Postposed NPs occurring after the illocutionary force markers are common in Crow.? To my way of thinking the question about whether they are just afterthoughts would be a matter of pragmatics.? I view them as syntactically part of the sentence. ? The topic of my MALC paper is "Word- and Morpheme-Level Code-Switching in Crow." ? Randy -----Original Message----- From: Trechter, Sara To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Sent: Wed, Sep 26 1:23 PM Subject: RE: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Adding to Bob's "etc."? These afterthought NPs are also common in Mandan, and they occur after the illocutionary force indicators; they specify/emphasize the main referent in the sentence.? Intonation contour makes it appear that they aren't "afterthoughts," but typically specify the exact reference of a subject or object pronoun.? I was surprised by them, but Catherine's paper made them seem less?abnormal :)? ? sara ? ? ? ? From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu [mailto:owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu] On Behalf Of Catherine Rudin Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 9:55 AM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: RE: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? Yes, "too many for afterthought alone" was my conclusion too.? Beyond that it was pretty much a vague "some kind of topicality" idea.? ? Incidentally, I just looked back at the paper I sent out earlier to remind myself what I said (oy - I'm getting feeble minded) and saw that the examples are practically illegible.? I used fonts back then that my system no longer supports, and I suspect most of you guys also see an amusing array of hieroglyphics if you try to read it... Please accept my apologies.? If anyone would like a corrected version, with examples in the current orthography, do let me know; I'm planning on fixing it right away, before I forget, and it won't take long.? ? Catherine >>> rankin at ku.edu 9/26/2007 9:30 AM >>> I remember that paper, although I can't remember if it was one of the ones that was published. The Siouan Bibliography or Catherine can tell you. As I recall, in her elicited data she was getting something like 11% postposed subjects; far too many for afterthought alone. They also occur in Kaw, etc. Bob ?_____ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Tue 9/25/2007 4:38 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Postposed referents or just afterthoughts? I'm sure we're all looking forward to MALC. I'm preparing a handout to my presentation there, which concerns the problem of postposed referents in Ponca and Omaha. Since the assumed canonical order is SOV, of course, any postposed referent begs the question: "Is this a part of the sentence, or an afterthought?" Erkin her 1983 dissertation on Turkish claimed that given/activated postposed referents are intrasentential while non-activated referents are afterthoughts. This can be tested empirically by looking at prosody, but unfortunately my data has no prosodic information (you can all hazard a guess why). I think Erkproposal makes sense for OP, and I remember reading some sort of discussion of OVS and SVO word order in OP before in which the same question was raised. Can anyone remind me of where I might have read that? I think it would have been one of Rudin's papers. - Bryan James Gordon PS: Who all is presenting Siouan stuff at MALC? PPS: If anyone will be in Boulder the fi rst weekend of October, feel free to give me a call: I'm there for CLASP. 612 239 7094 ________________________________________________________________________ Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed Sep 26 21:36:46 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:36:46 -0500 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. Message-ID: The MALC program just became available at: http://www.linguistics.ku.edu/malc/MALC2007program.pdf It looks as though there are 8 Siouan papers spread between 2 sessions. That's not as many as I'd hoped for, but I can't complain, since I didn't send an abstract myself (I've been very lazy this Summer). The motel that the conference flyer suggests is a very nice one overlooking the Kansas River and right downtown with adjacent restaurants and bars. But perhaps it's a little pricy for some. (Or maybe I'm just living in the past.) Maybe people can decide here on the list whether they'd all like to try to stay at the same place. It would facilitate socializing in the evenings. I only just now acquired the program, so I haven't planned any social events at all yet. One more thing. If any of you submitted an abstract that was turned down for any reason, please let me know off-list. I think they probably accepted them all, but I want to make it maximally unpleasant for some people if they didn't. :-) I had no part in the conference planning or the reading of abstracts, but I want to make certain everything remains on the up-and-up. Also, we (read: "you") should be thinking about where you would like to have the conference next year. We'll need to decide on that soon. For those of you not driving or renting a car, I'll try to help out with transportation during the conference. Best to all, Bob From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Wed Sep 26 23:06:59 2007 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2007 16:06:59 -0700 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bob, I can also assist with transportation locally and possibly from/to KCI. Dave "Rankin, Robert L" wrote: The MALC program just became available at: http://www.linguistics.ku.edu/malc/MALC2007program.pdf It looks as though there are 8 Siouan papers spread between 2 sessions. That's not as many as I'd hoped for, but I can't complain, since I didn't send an abstract myself (I've been very lazy this Summer). The motel that the conference flyer suggests is a very nice one overlooking the Kansas River and right downtown with adjacent restaurants and bars. But perhaps it's a little pricy for some. (Or maybe I'm just living in the past.) Maybe people can decide here on the list whether they'd all like to try to stay at the same place. It would facilitate socializing in the evenings. I only just now acquired the program, so I haven't planned any social events at all yet. One more thing. If any of you submitted an abstract that was turned down for any reason, please let me know off-list. I think they probably accepted them all, but I want to make it maximally unpleasant for some people if they didn't. :-) I had no part in the conference planning or the reading of abstracts, but I want to make certain everything remains on the up-and-up. Also, we (read: "you") should be thinking about where you would like to have the conference next year. We'll need to decide on that soon. For those of you not driving or renting a car, I'll try to help out with transportation during the conference. Best to all, Bob --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From okibjonathan at yahoo.com Thu Sep 27 10:43:08 2007 From: okibjonathan at yahoo.com (Jonathan Holmes) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 03:43:08 -0700 Subject: Lakota question In-Reply-To: <382860.92985.qm@web54602.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you for responding so quickly. I appreciate your help. Jonathan REGINA PUSTET wrote: It means 'what's your name'. taku e-ni-ci-ya-pi huwo? what say-2SG.PAT-to-say-PL question(male speaker) What is glossed as say-say are the two syllables of eya 'to say', a verb that takes infixes. ci- does not normally mean 'to', it is a fossilized benefactive marker. So the literal translation is 'what do they say to you?'. Regina --- Jonathan Holmes wrote: > How would you interpret the translation for this > Lakota question: > > Takeniciyapi hwo? > > > Be a friend... > Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, > go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - > their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Catch up on fall's hot new shows on Yahoo! TV. Watch previews, get listings, and more! http://tv.yahoo.com/collections/3658 Be a friend... Help support the Lakota Communities on Pine Ridge, go to: http://FriendsofPineRidgeReservation.org --------------------------------- Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Thu Sep 27 13:16:40 2007 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 08:16:40 -0500 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Aloha All, Rory and I will be driving to the MALC on Thursday afternoon. We are booked into the conference hotel. Our paper is a progress report on the Omaha language and culture textbook, due for release fall 2009 from the Unversity of Nebraska Press. I see that we are scheduled to present first thing on Friday morning. Uthighide Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. http://omahalanguage.unl.edu Anthropology-Geography Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) University of Nebraska-Lincoln 841 Oldfather Hall Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 mawakuni-swetland2 at unl.edu Office: 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 ONska abthiN! Thi shti? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Sun Sep 30 21:42:17 2007 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:42:17 -0500 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. Message-ID: There is also a paper on Pawnee phonology to cover the Caddoan angle of SCLC. That brings the total to 10. There is a 180 ft. hill to climb or pedal up between downtown and campus. I can't remember where Westminister Inn is though. It may already be on the hilltop. If there is a whole car-load of people coming in from the KC airport, I or others may be willing to drive over. It would be nice if we could bring at least 4 at once. Those renting cars at the airport might consider arranging to bring other passengers along too if possible. ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Sun 9/30/2007 3:08 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Siouan sessions at MALC. Bob (and everyone) - There are at least 9 Siouan talks, because mine is definitely on OP, even though it's apparently not in the Siouan session. I would KILL (or perhaps just pay well) for a ride from MCI (the airport) on Thursday that costs less than the $75 I'm looking at right now. While in-town I plan to rent a bike. FYI, I'm staying with Kevin Schluter, another grad student from my department, and hopefully some other Minnesotans as well, at the Westminster Inn, about a mile and a half from campus, which is about $60 per room right now. If anyone else wants to jump in on our room (there's room for two more), let me know. Kevin might also be interested in some of the social plannings Bob has mentioned. He's talking on Amharic, but we love him anyway. - BJG From linguista at gmail.com Sun Sep 30 20:08:48 2007 From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan Gordon) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 15:08:48 -0500 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bob (and everyone) - There are at least 9 Siouan talks, because mine is definitely on OP, even though it's apparently not in the Siouan session. I would KILL (or perhaps just pay well) for a ride from MCI (the airport) on Thursday that costs less than the $75 I'm looking at right now. While in-town I plan to rent a bike. FYI, I'm staying with Kevin Schluter, another grad student from my department, and hopefully some other Minnesotans as well, at the Westminster Inn, about a mile and a half from campus, which is about $60 per room right now. If anyone else wants to jump in on our room (there's room for two more), let me know. Kevin might also be interested in some of the social plannings Bob has mentioned. He's talking on Amharic, but we love him anyway. - BJG From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Sun Sep 30 23:40:35 2007 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2007 16:40:35 -0700 Subject: Siouan sessions at MALC. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: BJG and anyone else interested: As I said previously, I'll be willing to pick folks up from the airport as long as it doesn't conflict with class schedules. (I have room for 3 in my Saturn.) Not sure what day people are coming in, but I have no classes on Wednesday so would be pretty much open all day to pick up from KCI. (Just a small donation to cover gas expense would be much appreciated, which I'm sure would be much cheaper than a cab!) Thursday for me would be a problem however. Dave "Rankin, Robert L" wrote: There is also a paper on Pawnee phonology to cover the Caddoan angle of SCLC. That brings the total to 10. There is a 180 ft. hill to climb or pedal up between downtown and campus. I can't remember where Westminister Inn is though. It may already be on the hilltop. If there is a whole car-load of people coming in from the KC airport, I or others may be willing to drive over. It would be nice if we could bring at least 4 at once. Those renting cars at the airport might consider arranging to bring other passengers along too if possible. ________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Bryan Gordon Sent: Sun 9/30/2007 3:08 PM To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu Subject: Re: Siouan sessions at MALC. Bob (and everyone) - There are at least 9 Siouan talks, because mine is definitely on OP, even though it's apparently not in the Siouan session. I would KILL (or perhaps just pay well) for a ride from MCI (the airport) on Thursday that costs less than the $75 I'm looking at right now. While in-town I plan to rent a bike. FYI, I'm staying with Kevin Schluter, another grad student from my department, and hopefully some other Minnesotans as well, at the Westminster Inn, about a mile and a half from campus, which is about $60 per room right now. If anyone else wants to jump in on our room (there's room for two more), let me know. Kevin might also be interested in some of the social plannings Bob has mentioned. He's talking on Amharic, but we love him anyway. - BJG --------------------------------- Take the Internet to Go: Yahoo!Go puts the Internet in your pocket: mail, news, photos & more. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: