From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU  Fri Feb  1 20:57:15 2008
From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Jill Greer)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:57:15 -0600
Subject: A Conference Date At Last!
Message-ID: <FRI.1.FEB.2008.145715.0600.>

Hello again, All,
  Finally, let's set the date for the conference as June 20-21.   I have tried to pick a time that works best for the most people, and I do apologize to everyone that may be inconvenienced by this date.  (I am hoping that two days is enough.  If people think another day or half day would be better, then please speak up now! )    The deadline for abstracts  will be May 12th. In addition to formal papers, perhaps we could also allot some time for a round-table or workshop type of discussion, if there is enough interest.  Give me some feedback on this thought, if you would.

 I look forward to hearing from you, and welcoming you to Joplin, MO known primarily from the classic Route 66 song recently revived in Disney's "Cars", for those of you who still watch kids' movies :).


I will get hotel rates, directions from the best airports (Tulsa, XNA at Fayetteville, or Springfield are your best bet for cost-  Joplin does have a very small airport, but I can't vouch for the rates), and other relevant info for you a little later.       

And happy Feb. 1st - surely that is a holiday somewhere in the world???  One month of winter over...

Best,
Jill


From goodtracks at peoplepc.com  Sat Feb  2 12:15:03 2008
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 06:15:03 -0600
Subject: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
Message-ID: <SAT.2.FEB.2008.061503.0600.>

Conference on the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages

February 20-22, 2008
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From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Feb  4 20:43:16 2008
From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 20:43:16 +0000
Subject: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
In-Reply-To: <40E5C4D94465437C9A30AA2B0C0E0FD6@JGHP>
Message-ID: <MON.4.FEB.2008.204316.0000.>

Dear Jim
I downloaded that, but it came out unreadable.  Has anybody had the same problem?  Any solutions
Bruce

Jimm GoodTracks <goodtracks at peoplepc.com> wrote:        Conference on the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
 February 20-22, 2008



       
---------------------------------
 Sent from Yahoo! &#45; a smarter inbox.
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From ishna00 at hotmail.com  Mon Feb  4 22:38:43 2008
From: ishna00 at hotmail.com (ThodeCharles)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 16:38:43 -0600
Subject: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
In-Reply-To: <40E5C4D94465437C9A30AA2B0C0E0FD6@JGHP>
Message-ID: <MON.4.FEB.2008.163843.0600.>


I had no problem opening it with my old Adobe 7.0.

Chuck

Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 06:15:03 -0600
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com
To: iowaysonline at yahoogroups.com
CC: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com; siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages











Conference on the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
February 20-22, 2008

_________________________________________________________________
나의 글로벌 인맥, Windows Live Space!
http://www.spaces.live.com
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From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Mon Feb  4 22:42:14 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:42:14 +1100
Subject: Opening page of "Brave Against the Enemy" (1944)
Message-ID: <TUE.5.FEB.2008.094214.1100.>

Here is some more dramatic & colourful  use of Lakhota in a modern  
context by Emil AFRAID-OF-HAWK.
It is the first page of his Lakhotaiyapi translation of the above  
B.I.A. reader, originally written in English by Ann NOLAN CLARK.

As previously, the second English version is certainly not intended  
to "improve" Nolan Clark, (which would be difficult to better, imho,  
as a piece of English writing, in any case) but as an aid to  
comprehension of the precise meaning of E. A-O-H's Lakhota, by  
attempting to approach it as closely as possible.


Thoka Wan Itkokhip Ohitike Kin He (Jan 1944) [Page 5]
=================================================================


Iyechinkala inyanke kin nahanh^ci tanyekel inajin shni han kaslohanye  
kin echunhan Louie Heh^logeca kah^'ol hiyuic'iye.


Nolan Clark text:

"Louie Hollow Horn was out of the car before it had slid to a halting  
stop."


Another translation :

"Before the car had properly come to a halt, and while it was still  
skidding/in a slide, Louie Hollow Horn launched himself out (of it)."


[NOTES:]

I think "shni haN" is prob. here a variant of "shni haNni" [=before].  
[See B-Md. under "haNni", p.78]






Iyechinkala inyanke huinat'age thepthepahe kin nahanh^ci nakiskis,  
najojo, k'oh^k'oh^ hingle kin ichahiya hiyuic'iye.


Nolan Clark :

"He was out of the car before its worn-out brakes had finished their  
protesting groans.

Another translation :

"He hurled himself (from the vehicle) amidst (lit. : intermingled  
with) (a sudden cacophony of) creaking, wheezing & rattling from the  
car's clapped-out brakes."

OR, maybe :

"The car's clapped-out brakes were still creaking, wheezing &  
rattling, as he executed his leap (from the vehicle)."







Atkuku kin huinat'age kin otokhetutan'inshniyan kunsyakel namahehe  
iyeya yanke he shunkthahu wash'aka k'inkhiyapi iyechelya hugmiyanyan  
un kah^apapi kin yutiktitan he.


Nolan Clark :

"His father stamped with doubtful but determined tread on the brake  
pedal and pulled on the wheel as if he were reining a stubborn horse."


Another translation :

"His father sat there pumping the brake-(pedal) in & out, pretending/ 
simulating/feigning total confusion/bewilderment, and (he) kept  
pulling on the steering-wheel, as if it were (the reins) of a stiff- 
necked pack-horse."


[NOTES:]

There are some really tricky vocabulary items there, eh? I found this  
sentence very troublesome, and I don't think I 've got the answers  
either!

E.g. 'kunsyakel' : I'm not sure exactly why the father would be  
'pretending/simulating' anything, at this point?!
Unless 'kunsyakel' here has a weakened sense, meaning not much more  
than : "apparently/seemingly/to outward appearances"?
But of course for that idea we have s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse.

I translate "otokhetutan'inshniyan" as : "bewilderment/confusion/ 
being unaware what is happening (going on)", on the basis of context  
only. Otherwise I'm unsure.
I note that the expression also occurs, probably as a Stative Verb  
meaning "to be doubtful/unclear", on page 17 (3rd. Paragraph, line 24).

"Doubtful but determined" in Nolan Clark seems a rather cute  
oxymoron, doesn't it! I'm not sure what it means though.

However, it seems evident that "hugmiyanyan un kah^api kin", means,  
as a unit  : "steering wheel" here. "the wheel (hugmiyanyan) by-means- 
of-which (un) they-drive".
I'm not sure why hugmiyan has been reduplicated though.








Hokshila kin takuni aphe shni. Iyechinka inyanke kin etanhan  
hiyuic'iye si kin makha icah^take shni han inyank iyaye s'elecheca.


Nolan Clark :

"The boy did not wait. He was out of the car, running,  almost before  
his feet touched the ground."

Another translation :

"The boy waited for nothing : he hurled himself from the car, (and)  
seemingly, before his feet even touched the ground, he was off &  
running."







Iyechinka inyanke kin lila nakhata sanp iyaya chankhe un inyanke kin  
ehash nahoh^pah^pa nablokaskaska s'e he, na tokhecela kitanh^ci  
iyasni, inchin, hechun shni kinhan ungnaheh^ci akhe iyopteyapi kte  
kin wowash'ake chola iyopta okihi kte shni nachece.


Nolan Clark :

"The over-heated car engine coughed and hiccupped, reluctant to still  
itself lest it might never have the power to start again."

Another translation :

"The car('s engine) had gotten overheated (lit. being hot had gone  
over/beyond), and, as a result, the motor, which seemed to be  
coughing & hiccuping excessively, at last subsided only gradually &  
with difficulty/grudgingly, since if it hadn't been that way (i.e.  
since, without such reluctance), it might probably lack the power to  
(re-)start, had they wished to start it again right away."


[NOTES:]

This sentence is extremely difficult, imho! I have puzzled over it  
often, and still haven't "solved" it to my satisfaction!

A boldly imaginative metaphor, this one. The car's engine seems to  
have become a living thing, endowed with its own volition! I had a  
car like this one once! ;(

The expression "uN inyaNke" seems to mean "motor/engine" : i.e.  
"(means) by which it runs/goes".







Iyechinka inyanke kin hothanka na bu na lila nahunhunsya he kin  
hokshila kin hena iyasni kte aphe shni.
Thanchan zizipelakacha tokhel chinka, oakanyanke hektatanhan aunyan,  
makhata ipsice na oh^'ankhoya makhablu hihila kin opta inyank iyaye.


Nolan Clark :

"The boy had not waited for the noisy motor to die and for the old  
frame to stop its shivering.
He climbed over the back seat, jumped to the ground and started  
sprinting through the thick dust, all with one swing of his thin  
young body."


Another translation :

"The lad didn't wait for the car's loud & noisy rocking to grow still  
(die away). Climbing over the back seat with his slim, supple body,  
he leapt to earth, and set off at a rapid run through the soft  
(yielding?) dust."


[NOTES:]

It seemed to me that "tokhel chiNka" was a phrase descriptive of the  
boy's slim body : i.e. it was (behaved) "as he wished", in other  
words immediately 'responsive to his will', (as a youngster's body  
should be!). Therefore perhaps one might even translate it as : "fit/ 
athletic/supple/lithe"? A guess.

Not sure precisely what that "-kacha" suffix adds to the meaning of  
"zizipela"? Something like "evidently/manifestly" perhaps? [See B&D,  
p.29, Sect. 30]

"oakaNyaNke hektataNhaN" clearly enough means "back-seat".









Lila inyank iyayapi owichawashte kin hecha, inchin hupakshecaya  
hunathipya yankahan chankhe hu glukatin kta khoya un hechun.  
Iyechinka inyanke lazatanhan chanwophiye na wojuha kho okit'eya,  
owinja ophah^te na thiyobleca kho, heyubpi kin iyakanl iye, na  
thunkashitku kin kichi yankapi. Chankhe wakitanh^ci okablaya khuta  
glicu kin he lila owashte.


Nolan Clark :

"It was good to be running, to be stretching his cramped legs. The  
back of the car had been crowded with boxes and bags, bed-rolls and  
tent, besides himself and his grandfather. It was good to be out of  
it, to be free with the wind."

Another translation :

"To be off running was a terrific pleasure, for he had been sitting  
with his legs so doubled-over & cramped that he did so in order to  
stretch them also. He & his grandfather had been seated in the back  
of the car, squeezed in among the boxes & bags, the bedrolls, tents,  
and other packed-up luggage, so that to be at long last getting back  
down (khuta glichu) (onto the ground)  & to have freedom of movement  
(okablaya) again, was really nice! "

[NOTES:]

Wonder why -wicha- patient-pronoun is infixed with owichawashte in  
the first instance, yet not with owashte, in the last?







Hokshila kin unzogin shkishkita wan theca cha un kin hu'ichinajojoya  
inyanke hena lila theca na hena thawa na tokhel hokshila wan  
ha'unkhiyapi kta iyecheca kin ogna wakhoyaka chankhe hena kiksuye.


Nolan Clark :

"As the boy ran his new corduroy trousers whistled to his running,  
reminding him that they were new and they were his, clothing him as a  
boy should be clothed."

Another translation :

"As the boy ran, the new corduroy pants which he wore made a  
whistling sound, as his legs rubbed together, and so he became  
conscious of the fact that they were brand-new, they belonged to him,  
and that he was clad in the style in which a boy should be dressed."


[NOTES:]

"shkishkita" can mean "rough-surfaced; not smooth, or level". Boas &  
Deloria (pp. 28 & 64) give the meaning as "corrugated".
"uNzog^iN shkishkita" might well be "corduroy jeans/pants".

  "huichinajojojya" : Splendid adverb! "legs whistling in contact  
with each other" [-ichi-"together/in contact"], I guess.

Pretty acute observation of minute everyday details, eh!








Pte ole hokshila thawanap'in wan theca cha, pte ole kin tokhel  
nap'inpi s'a kin iyechel thahu kin iyakpehe, chankhe izethun kin  
yumnimnipi s'e he kin nagita lila iyowichakiphi na wicakicilapi kta  
iyecheca ognayan kage.
Lila pte ole hokshila ic'ila wan hecela shni, tkha unsh'unmakeci  
hecha s'elecheca.


Nolan Clark :

"The ends of his new cowboy handkerchief, tied cowboy-fashion around  
his neck, fluttered behind him making a satisfying and a convincing  
shadow.
He not only felt like a cowboy, but he looked like one. At least his  
shadow did."



Another translation :

"The little cowpoke's kerchief had been wrapped around his neck, just  
like the cowboys habitually wore them, in such a way that the loose  
ends, which stood out fluttering as it were (s'e), gave rise to/ 
created the appearance of a very pleasing & credible/convincing  
shadow (behind him).
It wasn't only a case of him considering himself to be a genuine  
cowboy, but as for that other thing (his shadow??), even it had the  
appearance of being one!" (i.e. of being the Genuine Article/the Real  
McCoy).



[NOTES:]

Another fascinating paragraph, fairly bristling with difficulties!
Uncannily sensitive & subtle observation on the part of Ann Nolan  
Clark, also. Must have been a translator's nightmare to "recast" into  
Lakhota!

B&D [pp. 43 & 44 - on Locative-prefix combinations : "i-a; i-o"] list  
a verb "iyápehaN" with the meaning "to wrap around; lit. "to wind on  
against".
The infixed "-k-" looks like a Possessive-Dative form of some  
description.

Can't find that word "izethuN" anywhere, so I suppose one has to try  
and work it out from the context, with some more or less "educated  
guesswork".
Luckily also, we have Nolan Clark's original English to at least  
point us in the right general direction, eh?

"-thuN" seems to be that familiar general Verb-formant, often added  
to roots to form verbs.[See Ingham,"Lakota", 2003, Sect. 4.10.1]

I note the existence of reduplicated adverb "zézeya/zézezeya" [B&D,  
pp.18 & 37] meaning "hanging/dangling/suspended".
There are also roots : "ze" meaning : "it is dangling (v., adv.)" at  
B&D, [p.65 (CV verbs)], and "za" meaning "to stand erect (plants,  
trees)" at B&D [p.31, Sect.32.].
My guess is that it might mean the "loose ends" of the boy's  
kerchief, which "dangle/stick out" from the knot tied at his neck.

"yumnimnipi s'e" : "twirling/swirling/fluttering, as it were/sort of  
fluttering"

I've interpreted "wicakicilapi" [=they believe in it; perh.<wicala  
(?)] to mean something like "believable/credible/convincing-- 
 >"realistic/authentic".
B-Mdict.[s.v., p.372] glosses word : "(v.) to comply; (adj.)  
positive." I wondered whether it might be a misprint for  
"wichakicilapi"<kicila, possibly Poss.-Dative form of  
'kila'=think,esteem; believe in (?).

"uNsh'uNmakeci" seems very mysterious & idiomatic in meaning, and  
Buechel-Manhart's somewhat confusing & laborious entry doesn't appear  
to provide all that much help.
It occurs to me that maybe it might refer to the lad's shadow :  "as  
for that other thing", i.e. the boy's  appearance as a cowboy was so  
credibile that even his shadow had the look of the "Real Thing", the  
"Genuine Article", as we say!


Needless to say, I am well aware that a lot of that is guess-work &  
supposition! :) Any comments from the pros would be most helpful!

Kind regards,

Clive.

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From jmcbride at kawnation.com  Tue Feb  5 15:00:31 2008
From: jmcbride at kawnation.com (Justin McBride)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:00:31 -0600
Subject: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
Message-ID: <TUE.5.FEB.2008.090031.0600.>

Bruce,

You can get the program over the Web at http://www.mptnlanguageconference.org/Program.html.

-Justin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: shokooh Ingham 
  To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu 
  Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 2:43 PM
  Subject: Re: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages


  Dear Jim
  I downloaded that, but it came out unreadable.  Has anybody had the same problem?  Any solutions
  Bruce

  Jimm GoodTracks <goodtracks at peoplepc.com> wrote:
    Conference on the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
    February 20-22, 2008




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox.
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From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu  Tue Feb  5 17:55:11 2008
From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:55:11 -0600
Subject: Opening page of "Brave Against the Enemy" (1944)
In-Reply-To: <5E659511-E1B0-4C0D-A912-172FD452F5DE@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <TUE.5.FEB.2008.115511.0600.>

> E.g. 'kunsyakel' : I'm not sure exactly why the father would be 
'pretending/simulating' anything, at this point?! 
Unless 'kunsyakel' here has a weakened sense, meaning not much more than : 
"apparently/seemingly/to outward appearances"? 
But of course for that idea we have s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse.


I'm guessing the "seemingly" sense is approximately correct here, which 
would mean that kunsyakel doesn't necessarily imply that the pretense is 
false.  Perhaps kunsyakel suggests an active/volitional role in the 
appearance that is lacking in the s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse set, which 
might be too weak and passive for the author's intentions.  While the 
latter set might give: "The father seemed totally bewildered...", using 
kunsyakel the result might be: "The father was actively emitting signals 
of total bewilderment...", surely a much more powerful and humorous way of 
expressing the situation.

Sounds like you have found a wonderful resource.  Thanks for sharing!

Rory
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From ti at fa-kuan.muc.de  Tue Feb  5 20:21:19 2008
From: ti at fa-kuan.muc.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Alfred_W._T=FCting=22?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 21:21:19 +0100
Subject: Opening page of "Brave Against the Enemy" (1944)
In-Reply-To: <OF8FC2AE9A.F835E304-ON862573E6.005DD496-862573E6.00626FE7@unl.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.5.FEB.2008.212119.0100.>

 > Atkuku kin huinat'age kin otokhetutan'inshniyan kunsyakel namahehe  
iyeya yanke he shunkthahu wash'aka
 > k'inkhiyapi iyechelya hugmiyanyan un kah^apapi kin yutiktitan he.


 > Nolan Clark :

 > "His father stamped with doubtful but determined tread on the brake  
pedal and pulled on the wheel as if he were reining a stubborn
 > horse."

(...)


Am 05.02.2008 um 18:55 schrieb Rory M Larson:

>
> > E.g. 'kunsyakel' : I'm not sure exactly why the father would be  
> 'pretending/simulating' anything, at this point?!
> Unless 'kunsyakel' here has a weakened sense, meaning not much more  
> than : "apparently/seemingly/to outward appearances"?
> But of course for that idea we have s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse.
>
>
> I'm guessing the "seemingly" sense is approximately correct here,  
> which would mean that kunsyakel doesn't necessarily imply that the  
> pretense is false.  Perhaps kunsyakel suggests an active/volitional  
> role in the appearance that is lacking in the s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/ 
> sekse set, which might be too weak and passive for the author's  
> intentions.  While the latter set might give: "The father seemed  
> totally bewildered...", using kunsyakel the result might be: "The  
> father was actively emitting signals of total bewilderment...",  
> surely a much more powerful and humorous way of expressing the  
> situation.
>
> Sounds like you have found a wonderful resource.  Thanks for sharing!
>
> Rory


otoḱetu-tan'in-ṡni-yan - lit. maybe about: "things appearing as not  
going"-ADV (i.e. the brakes) kunsyakel namahehe - pretendingly  
treading-in-again and again...

1) The brakes are actually (still) working, albeit quite badly.
2) atkuku is aware of this, yet
3) "kunsyakel" acts as if they actually wouldn't, by "namahehe iyeya"  
again and again treading into them with a fast foot action (?)

I'm not so sure about that na-mahe-he iyeya: maybe its reduplicated to  
denote repeated action. I for one, reading this word am having a  
pretty nice "picture" in front of my eyes ;-) (like: In gespielter  
Verzweiflung or noch(!) nicht ganz echter Verzeiflung -> doubtful but  
determined).

Alfred
________________________________

Ṫaigmuakiṫo (AWT)

Laḱota iyapi wóuŋspeḱiye
http://www.fa-kuan.de/LAKSTRUCT.HTML





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From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Tue Feb  5 20:38:11 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 07:38:11 +1100
Subject: Opening page of "Brave Against the Enemy" (1944)
In-Reply-To: <OF8FC2AE9A.F835E304-ON862573E6.005DD496-862573E6.00626FE7@unl.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.6.FEB.2008.073811.1100.>

Thanks Rory, It is indeed a terrific Lakhota resource, and you are  
most welcome, anytime.

Incidentally, that perceptive observation of yours about a possible  
more active/volitional component in kunsyakel, in that context, makes  
a lot of sense to me.
And I agree about the humour & dynamism which might be added to the  
writer's expression, by such a possible nuance.
Hena un lila pilamayayelo.

Clive.

On 06/02/2008, at 4:55 AM, Rory M Larson wrote:

>
> > E.g. 'kunsyakel' : I'm not sure exactly why the father would be  
> 'pretending/simulating' anything, at this point?!
> Unless 'kunsyakel' here has a weakened sense, meaning not much more  
> than : "apparently/seemingly/to outward appearances"?
> But of course for that idea we have s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse.
>
>
> I'm guessing the "seemingly" sense is approximately correct here,  
> which would mean that kunsyakel doesn't necessarily imply that the  
> pretense is false.  Perhaps kunsyakel suggests an active/volitional  
> role in the appearance that is lacking in the s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/ 
> sekse set, which might be too weak and passive for the author's  
> intentions.  While the latter set might give: "The father seemed  
> totally bewildered...", using kunsyakel the result might be: "The  
> father was actively emitting signals of total bewilderment...",  
> surely a much more powerful and humorous way of expressing the  
> situation.
>
> Sounds like you have found a wonderful resource.  Thanks for sharing!
>
> Rory

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From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Tue Feb  5 21:37:23 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:37:23 +1100
Subject: Opening page of "Brave Against the Enemy" (1944)
In-Reply-To: <C5B24730-63F4-4CF9-B442-6E28A647FE05@fa-kuan.muc.de>
Message-ID: <WED.6.FEB.2008.083723.1100.>

I thought that the reduplication probably did denote that poor old  
"Dad" was pumping that (prob. "spongy") brake pedal in and out, "in  
gespielter Verzweiflung", as you neatly put it : "in simulated/ 
feigned desperation". Yes, no doubt "ate" would be well aware that  
his huinat'age were a tad "dodgy"!
  "Nicht ganz echter Verzweiflung" : not quite genuine desperation?  
Das ist ja ausgezeichnet, mein Freund!

Clive.

P.S. I also reckon that Rory is spot on with the slightly humorous  
undertone. Sounds reminiscent of Aussie 'deadpan' humour to me!
There's a great old newspaper cartoon from the Great Depression  
years, where two workman are hanging desperately from a windswept  
girder, 50 floors above the street.
One is clinging to the pants of the other, which have slipped down  
around his ankles. The guy clinging to the girder by his fingertips  
says, out of the side of his mouth :
"Don't laugh mate, this is serious!!"

On 06/02/2008, at 7:21 AM, Alfred W. Tüting wrote:

> > Atkuku kin huinat'age kin otokhetutan'inshniyan kunsyakel  
> namahehe iyeya yanke he shunkthahu wash'aka
> > k'inkhiyapi iyechelya hugmiyanyan un kah^apapi kin yutiktitan he.
>
>
> > Nolan Clark :
>
> > "His father stamped with doubtful but determined tread on the  
> brake pedal and pulled on the wheel as if he were reining a stubborn
> > horse."
>
> (...)
>
>
> Am 05.02.2008 um 18:55 schrieb Rory M Larson:
>
>>
>> > E.g. 'kunsyakel' : I'm not sure exactly why the father would be  
>> 'pretending/simulating' anything, at this point?!
>> Unless 'kunsyakel' here has a weakened sense, meaning not much  
>> more than : "apparently/seemingly/to outward appearances"?
>> But of course for that idea we have s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse.
>>
>>
>> I'm guessing the "seemingly" sense is approximately correct here,  
>> which would mean that kunsyakel doesn't necessarily imply that the  
>> pretense is false.  Perhaps kunsyakel suggests an active/ 
>> volitional role in the appearance that is lacking in the  
>> s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse set, which might be too weak and  
>> passive for the author's intentions.  While the latter set might  
>> give: "The father seemed totally bewildered...", using kunsyakel  
>> the result might be: "The father was actively emitting signals of  
>> total bewilderment...", surely a much more powerful and humorous  
>> way of expressing the situation.
>>
>> Sounds like you have found a wonderful resource.  Thanks for sharing!
>>
>> Rory
>
>
> otoḱetu-tan'in-ṡni-yan - lit. maybe about: "things appearing as  
> not going"-ADV (i.e. the brakes) kunsyakel namahehe - pretendingly  
> treading-in-again and again...
>
> 1) The brakes are actually (still) working, albeit quite badly.
> 2) atkuku is aware of this, yet
> 3) "kunsyakel" acts as if they actually wouldn't, by "namahehe  
> iyeya" again and again treading into them with a fast foot action (?)
>
> I'm not so sure about that na-mahe-he iyeya: maybe its reduplicated  
> to denote repeated action. I for one, reading this word am having a  
> pretty nice "picture" in front of my eyes ;-) (like: In gespielter  
> Verzweiflung or noch(!) nicht ganz echter Verzeiflung -> doubtful  
> but determined).
>
> Alfred
> ________________________________
>
> Ṫaigmuakiṫo (AWT)
>
> Laḱota iyapi wóuŋspeḱiye
> http://www.fa-kuan.de/LAKSTRUCT.HTML
>
>
>
>
>

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From David.Rood at Colorado.EDU  Fri Feb  8 21:32:40 2008
From: David.Rood at Colorado.EDU (ROOD DAVID S)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:32:40 -0700
Subject: More on Wichita
Message-ID: <FRI.8.FEB.2008.143240.0700.>

Hello, everyone --
 	The rash of public information about Wichita continues to expand. 
Our news dept here at Colorado has just produced a very nice "podcast" 
about saving endangered languages, featuring the work of three of us.  I 
don't think my little discussion of Wichita will tell most of you anything 
new, but I think it might be a nice extra in some intrductory linguistics 
courses, and the pictures of Doris and of historical Wichita phenomena are 
a nice bonus.  Access it via http://www.colorado.edu/news/podcasts.

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu


From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Tue Feb 12 02:18:23 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:18:23 +1100
Subject: Passages of interest from "Brave Ag. the Enemy"
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.131823.1100.>

1)  (a) Ann NOLAN CLARK's English Original, 1944. [Page 18]

[Young Lakhota boy Louie says to his Dad, Joe :]

Louie : "Father do you see how level his back is from his shoulders  
to his tail?"

Joe :      "He has everything, alright. There is a bull to sire a  
herd!"]


      (b) Emil AFRAID-OF-HAWK's translation [Page 19] :

L : "Ate wanyanki yetho, hinyete kin hetan na sinte kin hehan  
iyagleya chuwi kin lila blaska yelo!"

J. : "Taku oyas'in iyojula thanchan kithun welo. Thabloka kin le etan  
optaye washte wan ichagapi okihi hecha yelo!"


     (c) Back-translation from Lakhota, aimed at ascertaining its  
literal meaning, and structure.

L : "Won't you just take a look, dad! (lit. please look!) From his  
shoulder [hinyete kin hetan] all the way down to his tail [sinte
         kin hehan iyagleya], his back is so (lit. very) level!"

J. : "He has the perfect body/his body's got the lot, that's a fact  
[yelo]."

         (lit. "He's sure grown/possesses a body [thanchankithun]  
full of [iyojula] everything!" [taku oyas'in] (i.e. everything
                  desirable in a prize stud-bull, presumably)  "]

         "From such a bull as this, you/one might breed a great herd  
(OR 'a great herd might be bred')!"

          (lit. "This is the type [hecha] of bull [thabloka kin le]  
from which [etan] it is possible [okihi] a fine herd might be bred
          [ichagapi].")

[NOTES:] Buech.-M. supplies a verb (stative?) thanchaNthon : 'to have  
a body/to be ripe or full-grown'.
Could the above form in the text, (despite thanchan & kithon being  
written separately), perhaps be an unlisted Dative-Possessive (-ki-)  
of that verb?

Questions. :

Is thabloka kin le the subject of hecha, but NOT of okihi as I take  
it to be, and therefore does postposition etan here have a indirect  
relative sense "from which"?

If it IS a relative clause with definite antecedent, mightn't one  
have expected 'wan' with antecedent 'thabloka' and a 'kin' after  
'okihi'? Like so :

"le thabloka wan etan optaye washte wan ichagapi okihi kin hecha yelo!"
[=Here is a bull, one of the sort from which it is possible a fine  
herd may spring!]

Or, if 'etan' directly governs 'thabloka kin le', as it appears to  
do, prima facie,  can 'this bull' simultaneously be the subject of  
'hecha', as well as in regimen with the postposition?

Does 'okihi' have an impersonal sense here, hence lack of animate- 
pluralizing '-pi'?


2.) (a) Ann NOLAN CLARK's Original [Page 18]

"Why is it," she thought, "that Indians never have what they want  
most? Here is my man who worked for forty years building a herd and  
had to see it dwindle and die in as many months. What has he now? He  
has nothing. Not even the hides and the bones are left from a herd of  
a thousand head!"]

      (b) Emil AFRAID-OF-HAWK's Translation [Page 19] :

"Tokheshkhe" echin, "Lakhota kin taku wanji aiyotanh^ci chinpi khesh  
t'inza yuhapi kta okihipi shni? Le wichasha mithawa kin waniyetu  
wikcemna top ptegleshka optaye wan wichayuichagin kte h^cin, na lila  
wowashi echun, na wanwichaglagye h^ci sanp conala ayapi, na  
tonakecapi kin he wiyawapi kin waniyetu yamni ihunniyan sotapi.
Na anpetu kin lehanyan taku yuha he? Takuni h^ci yuha shni.  
Ptegleshka opawinge wikcemna wanji wicayuha tkha k'un etanhan tahalo  
nahuhu e kayesh yuha shni," echin najin he."


      (c) A back-translation from the Lakota :

"How come/How is it?" she thought, "that the Lakhota, although they  
desire a thing above all else [aiyotanh^ci], are (nevertheless)  
unable to keep a firm hold upon it? This husband of mine has put in  
huge efforts [...kte h^cin] to bulid up a buffalo herd for 40 years,  
and has laboured extremely hard, and (yet) even as he watched over  
them, (his own herd) [wanwichaglagye h^ci] (OR perh. "under their  
owner's very gaze") , they thinned out [sanp conala ayapi], and their  
population/numbers [tonakecapi] dwindled to nothing [sotapi] (during/ 
over/within a period of) months [wiyawapi kin] amounting to/totalling  
[ihunniyan] three years. (i.e. about 40 months).
And what has he got these days [anpetu kin lehanyan]? He owns a big  
fat [h^ci] zero.  Out of a thousand head of cattle that he used to  
[tkha k'un] possess, he hasn't even got their hides & bones," she  
reflected as she stood there.

Toksha akhe, mitakuyepi,

Clive.
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From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Tue Feb 12 02:52:56 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:52:56 +1100
Subject: Passages of interest from "Brave Ag. the Enemy"
In-Reply-To: <AB5B1C95-5A4B-47B9-ADC3-A064A7D28AF2@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.135256.1100.>

Couple of amendments for clarity's sake.

On 12/02/2008, at 1:18 PM, Clive Bloomfield wrote:

> 1)  (a) Ann NOLAN CLARK's English Original, 1944. [Page 18]
>
>
> Joe :      ".... There is a bull to sire a herd!"]
>
>
>      (b) Emil AFRAID-OF-HAWK's translation [Page 19] :
>
> J. : "Thabloka kin le etan optaye washte wan ichagapi okihi hecha  
> yelo!"
>
>
>
> Questions. :
>
> Is thabloka kin le the subject of hecha - but NOT of okihi - (as I  
> took it to be), and therefore does postposition etan here have a  
> indirect relative sense "from which"?
>
>

> 2.) (a) Ann NOLAN CLARK's Original [Page 18]
>
> "....( for forty years ....) a herd...."]
>
>      (b) Emil AFRAID-OF-HAWK's Translation [Page 19] :

> ".... (waniyetu wikcemna top) ptegleshka optaye wan ..."
>
>
>      (c) A back-translation from the Lakota :
>
> " .... a  herd of cattle (for 40 years)...."
>

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From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU  Tue Feb 12 17:49:59 2008
From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Jill Greer)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:49:59 -0600
Subject: Indian Country Today
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.114959.0600.>

Hi, all,
In case you don't regularly read Indian Country Today, there was an article on Feb. 6th entitled "Ho-Chunk tribe members try to revive Native language"  on page 11 (www.indiancountry.com)

Best,
Jill


From FurbeeL at missouri.edu  Tue Feb 12 20:49:04 2008
From: FurbeeL at missouri.edu (Furbee, Louanna)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:49:04 -0600
Subject: Indian Country Today
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.144904.0600.>

Hi Jill, 
I don't ever see this journal.  I'm in Chiapas at present, so that makes it harder.  So, if you have the article, save it!
How's life and time?  We're busy busy with having just arrived here and trying to set up house in Comitan (as well as keep the apartment in San Cristobal). 


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jill Greer
Sent: Tue 2/12/2008 11:49 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Indian Country Today
 
Hi, all,
In case you don't regularly read Indian Country Today, there was an article on Feb. 6th entitled "Ho-Chunk tribe members try to revive Native language"  on page 11 (www.indiancountry.com)

Best,
Jill


From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU  Tue Feb 12 21:25:16 2008
From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Jill Greer)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:25:16 -0600
Subject: Indian Country Today
In-Reply-To: <96928448AD823E46B232929E0E4386702B1186@UM-XMAIL03.um.umsystem.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.152516.0600.>

Hi, Louanna!
Will do for sure.  If I get it scanned, I'll send it along... I wondered exactly where you guys were right now.  Better than the ice storms of SW Missouri I hope!

A belated thanks for the Christmas card and letter-  and Congratulations for the Lifetime Achievement Award!!!!  I wanted to visit the webpages, but haven't remembered to bring the letter to the office (no internet at home right now...  the price for living in the backwoods)

Life is good -  just a few too many funerals of late.  My mom's side is losing elders, and I realize I am middle-aged whether I like it or not!  

I saw your & Dave Schaul's and Bob's, and Debbie Pearsall's names in print recently (from book flyers to citations in Brian Fagan's Prehistory of the Earth text book) and it was so much fun to actually know the person referenced...!

How is Debbie doing, by the way? 

Better get back to work -  we have tons of assessment junk going on before the Higher Learning Commission (??) comes for accreditation in April.  Plus, lots of changes -  The President of  30 years retired in Sept (not by choice :), and they just hired the new one, and two VPs are leaving, so the Dean of A&S is stepping up to VP, and our department head is temporarily assistant dean to help out!!  (This after he was trying to step down as department head in the fall, poor guy!)

Hey, by the way, are you still the few, the proud Mac users?  I have an ulterior motive for asking -  I need to get IPA fonts for my PC at work, something I had managed to avoid so far...  My social science colleagues are pretty much "WHat is IPA anyway?"

It's so good to hear from you.  Give hugs to Bob, and let him return the favor (Valentine's Day is coming up after all!).

love,
Jill


>>> "Furbee, Louanna" <FurbeeL at missouri.edu> 2/12/2008 2:49 pm >>>
Hi Jill, 
I don't ever see this journal.  I'm in Chiapas at present, so that makes it harder.  So, if you have the article, save it!
How's life and time?  We're busy busy with having just arrived here and trying to set up house in Comitan (as well as keep the apartment in San Cristobal). 


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jill Greer
Sent: Tue 2/12/2008 11:49 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu 
Subject: Indian Country Today
 
Hi, all,
In case you don't regularly read Indian Country Today, there was an article on Feb. 6th entitled "Ho-Chunk tribe members try to revive Native language"  on page 11 (www.indiancountry.com)

Best,
Jill


From goodtracks at peoplepc.com  Tue Feb 12 21:40:09 2008
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:40:09 -0600
Subject: Fw: Article from Indian Country Today
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.154009.0600.>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com 
To: goodtracks at peoplepc.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:57 PM
Subject: Article from Indian Country Today


Jimm G. GoodTracks has sent you an Article from the Indian Country Today website. 


           
              
            Ho-Chunk tribe members try to revive Native language 
            by: The Associated Press 
            © Indian Country Today February 04, 2008. All Rights Reserved 
              
            BARABOO, Wis. (AP) - Georgia Lonetree missed speaking her Native language so much that she used to drive around Arizona looking for roadside objects she could name in Ho-Chunk. 

            The teacher at an American Indian boarding school returned to Wisconsin, and said hearing her tribe's language again was overwhelming. 

            ''It sometimes brought tears to my eyes and a lump to my throat when I'd hear my elders pray,'' she said. 

            Lonetree now teaches Ho-Chunk to high school students in Wisconsin Dells and Black River Falls. Only a handful of students participate, but she's hopeful the program's popularity will grow. 

            ''The people of the big voice'' have reached a crossroads with the deaths of three elder Ho-Chunk language teachers in the last year. The tribe is launching an effort to revitalize the dying language. 

            One of the recently deceased elders, William O'Brien of Mauston, had been working with German linguists to create a Ho-Chunk lexicon, an inventory of the tribe's vocabulary, tribal leaders said. 

            Others will try to carry on his effort, but his colleagues say O'Brien's death was a huge loss to the tribe. O'Brien moved away from Wisconsin, but returned years later, staying fluent in Ho-Chunk. 

            ''That was a big boost to see that somebody spending many years away from here was still able to retain their language,'' said Richard Mann, manager of the Ho-Chunk Nation's Language Division. 

            Mann said his parents spoke in Ho-Chunk to him, and that's all they spoke even though they allowed him to respond in English. 

            ''There were a few that spoke English, but by and large, back then, when somebody was speaking English, they'd say, 'Oh, the white man must have come in the door.' They'd make fun of them,'' Mann said. 

            After touting language preservation as part of his platform, recently elected Ho-Chunk President Wilfrid Cleveland proclaimed 2008 the year of the Ho-Chunk language. 

            Cleveland's staff members are taking daily classes, and nation officials are encouraging tribe members to speak Ho-Chunk more in their personal lives and at work. 

            Mann said a language CD is also under way and an interactive Web site lets tribe members learn from home. Mann said he hopes the proclamation will get the tribe's youth interested. 

            ''Within the last four or five decades, the language has slowly dropped off,'' Mann said. ''But once that's gone, we're gone as a people. Fortunately, we've got some young people that are really trying hard to learn, so it's up to us to teach them.'' 

            It's estimated that only about 200 of the 6,800 members of the Ho-Chunk Nation speak the language, said Ho-Chunk spokesman Anne Thundercloud. 
              
            Please visit the Indian Country Today website for more articles related to this topic. 
     
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From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Fri Feb 15 00:11:15 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:11:15 +1100
Subject: Passages of interest from "Brave Ag. the Enemy"
In-Reply-To: <AB5B1C95-5A4B-47B9-ADC3-A064A7D28AF2@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <FRI.15.FEB.2008.111115.1100.>

Questions. :

Emil Afraid-Of-Hawk text :

"Thabloka kin le etan optaye washte wan ichagapi okihi hecha yelo!"

If it WERE a relative clause with Definite Antecedent, mightn't one  
have expected 'wan' with antecedent 'thabloka' and a 'KIN' after  
'okihi'? Like so :

"le thabloka WAN etan optaye washte wan ichagapi okihi KIN hecha yelo!"
[=Here is a bull, one of the sort from which it is possible a fine  
herd may spring!]


Perhaps an even more accurate translation of such a sentence as this  
may be :

"Here/this is THE kind of bull from which it is possible that a fine  
herd may spring/be bred"

(Which is, incidentally, how I would wish to translate the E.AOH text)


Whereas if it were a relative clause with Indefinite Antecedent, like  
so :

"le thabloka WAN etan optaye wan ichagapi okihi CHA hecha yelo."

[=This is A variety of bull from which...(etc.)]

Would there be a subtle difference there in the Lakhota? Doesn't seem  
to be a great deal in the English, but I guess that would be beside  
the point here.

If okihi IS being used Personally, (rather than Impersonally, as I  
supposed), its complimentation of ichagapi would appear to be  
somewhat irregular, would it not?
With this particular verb used personally, the two subjects, 
(principal & subordinate), would normally be one & the same [SS], &  
either agree "echo-pronominalization" (Pustet, Paper in Studies in  
Language, 24:1 137-170) or show only "higher predicate encoding" of  
the (principal verb) subject, no?
Here in E.AOH's original, there appears to be "lower predicate  
encoding" without concord with higher predicate, very odd!
Which is why I thought it may be impersonal here, or perhaps used  
adverbially/modally, in some way.
I realize that okihi is classified as an [SS/OO] verb when the  
subordinate verb/lower predicate is transitive, but the [OO] part of  
parsing that does not seem applicable here.

Can anyone please clear up my confusion here?

Toksha akhe, mitakuyepi,

Clive.





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From FurbeeL at missouri.edu  Sat Feb 16 01:44:40 2008
From: FurbeeL at missouri.edu (Furbee, Louanna)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:44:40 -0600
Subject: Article from Indian Country Today
Message-ID: <FRI.15.FEB.2008.194440.0600.>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks
Sent: Tue 2/12/2008 3:40 PM
To: iowaysonline at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Fw: Article from Indian Country Today
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com 
To: goodtracks at peoplepc.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:57 PM
Subject: Article from Indian Country Today


Jimm G. GoodTracks has sent you an Article from the Indian Country Today website. 


           
              
            Ho-Chunk tribe members try to revive Native language 
            by: The Associated Press 
            © Indian Country Today February 04, 2008. All Rights Reserved 
              
            BARABOO, Wis. (AP) - Georgia Lonetree missed speaking her Native language so much that she used to drive around Arizona looking for roadside objects she could name in Ho-Chunk. 

            The teacher at an American Indian boarding school returned to Wisconsin, and said hearing her tribe's language again was overwhelming. 

            ''It sometimes brought tears to my eyes and a lump to my throat when I'd hear my elders pray,'' she said. 

            Lonetree now teaches Ho-Chunk to high school students in Wisconsin Dells and Black River Falls. Only a handful of students participate, but she's hopeful the program's popularity will grow. 

            ''The people of the big voice'' have reached a crossroads with the deaths of three elder Ho-Chunk language teachers in the last year. The tribe is launching an effort to revitalize the dying language. 

            One of the recently deceased elders, William O'Brien of Mauston, had been working with German linguists to create a Ho-Chunk lexicon, an inventory of the tribe's vocabulary, tribal leaders said. 

            Others will try to carry on his effort, but his colleagues say O'Brien's death was a huge loss to the tribe. O'Brien moved away from Wisconsin, but returned years later, staying fluent in Ho-Chunk. 

            ''That was a big boost to see that somebody spending many years away from here was still able to retain their language,'' said Richard Mann, manager of the Ho-Chunk Nation's Language Division. 

            Mann said his parents spoke in Ho-Chunk to him, and that's all they spoke even though they allowed him to respond in English. 

            ''There were a few that spoke English, but by and large, back then, when somebody was speaking English, they'd say, 'Oh, the white man must have come in the door.' They'd make fun of them,'' Mann said. 

            After touting language preservation as part of his platform, recently elected Ho-Chunk President Wilfrid Cleveland proclaimed 2008 the year of the Ho-Chunk language. 

            Cleveland's staff members are taking daily classes, and nation officials are encouraging tribe members to speak Ho-Chunk more in their personal lives and at work. 

            Mann said a language CD is also under way and an interactive Web site lets tribe members learn from home. Mann said he hopes the proclamation will get the tribe's youth interested. 

            ''Within the last four or five decades, the language has slowly dropped off,'' Mann said. ''But once that's gone, we're gone as a people. Fortunately, we've got some young people that are really trying hard to learn, so it's up to us to teach them.'' 

            It's estimated that only about 200 of the 6,800 members of the Ho-Chunk Nation speak the language, said Ho-Chunk spokesman Anne Thundercloud. 
              
            Please visit the Indian Country Today website for more articles related to this topic. 
     


From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU  Fri Feb  1 20:57:15 2008
From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Jill Greer)
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2008 14:57:15 -0600
Subject: A Conference Date At Last!
Message-ID: <FRI.1.FEB.2008.145715.0600.>

Hello again, All,
  Finally, let's set the date for the conference as June 20-21.   I have tried to pick a time that works best for the most people, and I do apologize to everyone that may be inconvenienced by this date.  (I am hoping that two days is enough.  If people think another day or half day would be better, then please speak up now! )    The deadline for abstracts  will be May 12th. In addition to formal papers, perhaps we could also allot some time for a round-table or workshop type of discussion, if there is enough interest.  Give me some feedback on this thought, if you would.

 I look forward to hearing from you, and welcoming you to Joplin, MO known primarily from the classic Route 66 song recently revived in Disney's "Cars", for those of you who still watch kids' movies :).


I will get hotel rates, directions from the best airports (Tulsa, XNA at Fayetteville, or Springfield are your best bet for cost-  Joplin does have a very small airport, but I can't vouch for the rates), and other relevant info for you a little later.       

And happy Feb. 1st - surely that is a holiday somewhere in the world???  One month of winter over...

Best,
Jill


From goodtracks at peoplepc.com  Sat Feb  2 12:15:03 2008
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 06:15:03 -0600
Subject: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
Message-ID: <SAT.2.FEB.2008.061503.0600.>

Conference on the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages

February 20-22, 2008
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From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk  Mon Feb  4 20:43:16 2008
From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 20:43:16 +0000
Subject: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
In-Reply-To: <40E5C4D94465437C9A30AA2B0C0E0FD6@JGHP>
Message-ID: <MON.4.FEB.2008.204316.0000.>

Dear Jim
I downloaded that, but it came out unreadable.  Has anybody had the same problem?  Any solutions
Bruce

Jimm GoodTracks <goodtracks at peoplepc.com> wrote:        Conference on the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
 February 20-22, 2008



       
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 Sent from Yahoo! &#45; a smarter inbox.
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From ishna00 at hotmail.com  Mon Feb  4 22:38:43 2008
From: ishna00 at hotmail.com (ThodeCharles)
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 16:38:43 -0600
Subject: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
In-Reply-To: <40E5C4D94465437C9A30AA2B0C0E0FD6@JGHP>
Message-ID: <MON.4.FEB.2008.163843.0600.>


I had no problem opening it with my old Adobe 7.0.

Chuck

Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2008 06:15:03 -0600
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com
To: iowaysonline at yahoogroups.com
CC: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com; siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages











Conference on the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
February 20-22, 2008

_________________________________________________________________
?? ??? ??, Windows Live Space!
http://www.spaces.live.com
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From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Mon Feb  4 22:42:14 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:42:14 +1100
Subject: Opening page of "Brave Against the Enemy" (1944)
Message-ID: <TUE.5.FEB.2008.094214.1100.>

Here is some more dramatic & colourful  use of Lakhota in a modern  
context by Emil AFRAID-OF-HAWK.
It is the first page of his Lakhotaiyapi translation of the above  
B.I.A. reader, originally written in English by Ann NOLAN CLARK.

As previously, the second English version is certainly not intended  
to "improve" Nolan Clark, (which would be difficult to better, imho,  
as a piece of English writing, in any case) but as an aid to  
comprehension of the precise meaning of E. A-O-H's Lakhota, by  
attempting to approach it as closely as possible.


Thoka Wan Itkokhip Ohitike Kin He (Jan 1944) [Page 5]
=================================================================


Iyechinkala inyanke kin nahanh^ci tanyekel inajin shni han kaslohanye  
kin echunhan Louie Heh^logeca kah^'ol hiyuic'iye.


Nolan Clark text:

"Louie Hollow Horn was out of the car before it had slid to a halting  
stop."


Another translation :

"Before the car had properly come to a halt, and while it was still  
skidding/in a slide, Louie Hollow Horn launched himself out (of it)."


[NOTES:]

I think "shni haN" is prob. here a variant of "shni haNni" [=before].  
[See B-Md. under "haNni", p.78]






Iyechinkala inyanke huinat'age thepthepahe kin nahanh^ci nakiskis,  
najojo, k'oh^k'oh^ hingle kin ichahiya hiyuic'iye.


Nolan Clark :

"He was out of the car before its worn-out brakes had finished their  
protesting groans.

Another translation :

"He hurled himself (from the vehicle) amidst (lit. : intermingled  
with) (a sudden cacophony of) creaking, wheezing & rattling from the  
car's clapped-out brakes."

OR, maybe :

"The car's clapped-out brakes were still creaking, wheezing &  
rattling, as he executed his leap (from the vehicle)."







Atkuku kin huinat'age kin otokhetutan'inshniyan kunsyakel namahehe  
iyeya yanke he shunkthahu wash'aka k'inkhiyapi iyechelya hugmiyanyan  
un kah^apapi kin yutiktitan he.


Nolan Clark :

"His father stamped with doubtful but determined tread on the brake  
pedal and pulled on the wheel as if he were reining a stubborn horse."


Another translation :

"His father sat there pumping the brake-(pedal) in & out, pretending/ 
simulating/feigning total confusion/bewilderment, and (he) kept  
pulling on the steering-wheel, as if it were (the reins) of a stiff- 
necked pack-horse."


[NOTES:]

There are some really tricky vocabulary items there, eh? I found this  
sentence very troublesome, and I don't think I 've got the answers  
either!

E.g. 'kunsyakel' : I'm not sure exactly why the father would be  
'pretending/simulating' anything, at this point?!
Unless 'kunsyakel' here has a weakened sense, meaning not much more  
than : "apparently/seemingly/to outward appearances"?
But of course for that idea we have s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse.

I translate "otokhetutan'inshniyan" as : "bewilderment/confusion/ 
being unaware what is happening (going on)", on the basis of context  
only. Otherwise I'm unsure.
I note that the expression also occurs, probably as a Stative Verb  
meaning "to be doubtful/unclear", on page 17 (3rd. Paragraph, line 24).

"Doubtful but determined" in Nolan Clark seems a rather cute  
oxymoron, doesn't it! I'm not sure what it means though.

However, it seems evident that "hugmiyanyan un kah^api kin", means,  
as a unit  : "steering wheel" here. "the wheel (hugmiyanyan) by-means- 
of-which (un) they-drive".
I'm not sure why hugmiyan has been reduplicated though.








Hokshila kin takuni aphe shni. Iyechinka inyanke kin etanhan  
hiyuic'iye si kin makha icah^take shni han inyank iyaye s'elecheca.


Nolan Clark :

"The boy did not wait. He was out of the car, running,  almost before  
his feet touched the ground."

Another translation :

"The boy waited for nothing : he hurled himself from the car, (and)  
seemingly, before his feet even touched the ground, he was off &  
running."







Iyechinka inyanke kin lila nakhata sanp iyaya chankhe un inyanke kin  
ehash nahoh^pah^pa nablokaskaska s'e he, na tokhecela kitanh^ci  
iyasni, inchin, hechun shni kinhan ungnaheh^ci akhe iyopteyapi kte  
kin wowash'ake chola iyopta okihi kte shni nachece.


Nolan Clark :

"The over-heated car engine coughed and hiccupped, reluctant to still  
itself lest it might never have the power to start again."

Another translation :

"The car('s engine) had gotten overheated (lit. being hot had gone  
over/beyond), and, as a result, the motor, which seemed to be  
coughing & hiccuping excessively, at last subsided only gradually &  
with difficulty/grudgingly, since if it hadn't been that way (i.e.  
since, without such reluctance), it might probably lack the power to  
(re-)start, had they wished to start it again right away."


[NOTES:]

This sentence is extremely difficult, imho! I have puzzled over it  
often, and still haven't "solved" it to my satisfaction!

A boldly imaginative metaphor, this one. The car's engine seems to  
have become a living thing, endowed with its own volition! I had a  
car like this one once! ;(

The expression "uN inyaNke" seems to mean "motor/engine" : i.e.  
"(means) by which it runs/goes".







Iyechinka inyanke kin hothanka na bu na lila nahunhunsya he kin  
hokshila kin hena iyasni kte aphe shni.
Thanchan zizipelakacha tokhel chinka, oakanyanke hektatanhan aunyan,  
makhata ipsice na oh^'ankhoya makhablu hihila kin opta inyank iyaye.


Nolan Clark :

"The boy had not waited for the noisy motor to die and for the old  
frame to stop its shivering.
He climbed over the back seat, jumped to the ground and started  
sprinting through the thick dust, all with one swing of his thin  
young body."


Another translation :

"The lad didn't wait for the car's loud & noisy rocking to grow still  
(die away). Climbing over the back seat with his slim, supple body,  
he leapt to earth, and set off at a rapid run through the soft  
(yielding?) dust."


[NOTES:]

It seemed to me that "tokhel chiNka" was a phrase descriptive of the  
boy's slim body : i.e. it was (behaved) "as he wished", in other  
words immediately 'responsive to his will', (as a youngster's body  
should be!). Therefore perhaps one might even translate it as : "fit/ 
athletic/supple/lithe"? A guess.

Not sure precisely what that "-kacha" suffix adds to the meaning of  
"zizipela"? Something like "evidently/manifestly" perhaps? [See B&D,  
p.29, Sect. 30]

"oakaNyaNke hektataNhaN" clearly enough means "back-seat".









Lila inyank iyayapi owichawashte kin hecha, inchin hupakshecaya  
hunathipya yankahan chankhe hu glukatin kta khoya un hechun.  
Iyechinka inyanke lazatanhan chanwophiye na wojuha kho okit'eya,  
owinja ophah^te na thiyobleca kho, heyubpi kin iyakanl iye, na  
thunkashitku kin kichi yankapi. Chankhe wakitanh^ci okablaya khuta  
glicu kin he lila owashte.


Nolan Clark :

"It was good to be running, to be stretching his cramped legs. The  
back of the car had been crowded with boxes and bags, bed-rolls and  
tent, besides himself and his grandfather. It was good to be out of  
it, to be free with the wind."

Another translation :

"To be off running was a terrific pleasure, for he had been sitting  
with his legs so doubled-over & cramped that he did so in order to  
stretch them also. He & his grandfather had been seated in the back  
of the car, squeezed in among the boxes & bags, the bedrolls, tents,  
and other packed-up luggage, so that to be at long last getting back  
down (khuta glichu) (onto the ground)  & to have freedom of movement  
(okablaya) again, was really nice! "

[NOTES:]

Wonder why -wicha- patient-pronoun is infixed with owichawashte in  
the first instance, yet not with owashte, in the last?







Hokshila kin unzogin shkishkita wan theca cha un kin hu'ichinajojoya  
inyanke hena lila theca na hena thawa na tokhel hokshila wan  
ha'unkhiyapi kta iyecheca kin ogna wakhoyaka chankhe hena kiksuye.


Nolan Clark :

"As the boy ran his new corduroy trousers whistled to his running,  
reminding him that they were new and they were his, clothing him as a  
boy should be clothed."

Another translation :

"As the boy ran, the new corduroy pants which he wore made a  
whistling sound, as his legs rubbed together, and so he became  
conscious of the fact that they were brand-new, they belonged to him,  
and that he was clad in the style in which a boy should be dressed."


[NOTES:]

"shkishkita" can mean "rough-surfaced; not smooth, or level". Boas &  
Deloria (pp. 28 & 64) give the meaning as "corrugated".
"uNzog^iN shkishkita" might well be "corduroy jeans/pants".

  "huichinajojojya" : Splendid adverb! "legs whistling in contact  
with each other" [-ichi-"together/in contact"], I guess.

Pretty acute observation of minute everyday details, eh!








Pte ole hokshila thawanap'in wan theca cha, pte ole kin tokhel  
nap'inpi s'a kin iyechel thahu kin iyakpehe, chankhe izethun kin  
yumnimnipi s'e he kin nagita lila iyowichakiphi na wicakicilapi kta  
iyecheca ognayan kage.
Lila pte ole hokshila ic'ila wan hecela shni, tkha unsh'unmakeci  
hecha s'elecheca.


Nolan Clark :

"The ends of his new cowboy handkerchief, tied cowboy-fashion around  
his neck, fluttered behind him making a satisfying and a convincing  
shadow.
He not only felt like a cowboy, but he looked like one. At least his  
shadow did."



Another translation :

"The little cowpoke's kerchief had been wrapped around his neck, just  
like the cowboys habitually wore them, in such a way that the loose  
ends, which stood out fluttering as it were (s'e), gave rise to/ 
created the appearance of a very pleasing & credible/convincing  
shadow (behind him).
It wasn't only a case of him considering himself to be a genuine  
cowboy, but as for that other thing (his shadow??), even it had the  
appearance of being one!" (i.e. of being the Genuine Article/the Real  
McCoy).



[NOTES:]

Another fascinating paragraph, fairly bristling with difficulties!
Uncannily sensitive & subtle observation on the part of Ann Nolan  
Clark, also. Must have been a translator's nightmare to "recast" into  
Lakhota!

B&D [pp. 43 & 44 - on Locative-prefix combinations : "i-a; i-o"] list  
a verb "iy?pehaN" with the meaning "to wrap around; lit. "to wind on  
against".
The infixed "-k-" looks like a Possessive-Dative form of some  
description.

Can't find that word "izethuN" anywhere, so I suppose one has to try  
and work it out from the context, with some more or less "educated  
guesswork".
Luckily also, we have Nolan Clark's original English to at least  
point us in the right general direction, eh?

"-thuN" seems to be that familiar general Verb-formant, often added  
to roots to form verbs.[See Ingham,"Lakota", 2003, Sect. 4.10.1]

I note the existence of reduplicated adverb "z?zeya/z?zezeya" [B&D,  
pp.18 & 37] meaning "hanging/dangling/suspended".
There are also roots : "ze" meaning : "it is dangling (v., adv.)" at  
B&D, [p.65 (CV verbs)], and "za" meaning "to stand erect (plants,  
trees)" at B&D [p.31, Sect.32.].
My guess is that it might mean the "loose ends" of the boy's  
kerchief, which "dangle/stick out" from the knot tied at his neck.

"yumnimnipi s'e" : "twirling/swirling/fluttering, as it were/sort of  
fluttering"

I've interpreted "wicakicilapi" [=they believe in it; perh.<wicala  
(?)] to mean something like "believable/credible/convincing-- 
 >"realistic/authentic".
B-Mdict.[s.v., p.372] glosses word : "(v.) to comply; (adj.)  
positive." I wondered whether it might be a misprint for  
"wichakicilapi"<kicila, possibly Poss.-Dative form of  
'kila'=think,esteem; believe in (?).

"uNsh'uNmakeci" seems very mysterious & idiomatic in meaning, and  
Buechel-Manhart's somewhat confusing & laborious entry doesn't appear  
to provide all that much help.
It occurs to me that maybe it might refer to the lad's shadow :  "as  
for that other thing", i.e. the boy's  appearance as a cowboy was so  
credibile that even his shadow had the look of the "Real Thing", the  
"Genuine Article", as we say!


Needless to say, I am well aware that a lot of that is guess-work &  
supposition! :) Any comments from the pros would be most helpful!

Kind regards,

Clive.

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From jmcbride at kawnation.com  Tue Feb  5 15:00:31 2008
From: jmcbride at kawnation.com (Justin McBride)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 09:00:31 -0600
Subject: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
Message-ID: <TUE.5.FEB.2008.090031.0600.>

Bruce,

You can get the program over the Web at http://www.mptnlanguageconference.org/Program.html.

-Justin
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: shokooh Ingham 
  To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu 
  Sent: Monday, February 04, 2008 2:43 PM
  Subject: Re: Conferenceon the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages


  Dear Jim
  I downloaded that, but it came out unreadable.  Has anybody had the same problem?  Any solutions
  Bruce

  Jimm GoodTracks <goodtracks at peoplepc.com> wrote:
    Conference on the Reclamation of Indigenous Languages
    February 20-22, 2008




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox.
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From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu  Tue Feb  5 17:55:11 2008
From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 11:55:11 -0600
Subject: Opening page of "Brave Against the Enemy" (1944)
In-Reply-To: <5E659511-E1B0-4C0D-A912-172FD452F5DE@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <TUE.5.FEB.2008.115511.0600.>

> E.g. 'kunsyakel' : I'm not sure exactly why the father would be 
'pretending/simulating' anything, at this point?! 
Unless 'kunsyakel' here has a weakened sense, meaning not much more than : 
"apparently/seemingly/to outward appearances"? 
But of course for that idea we have s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse.


I'm guessing the "seemingly" sense is approximately correct here, which 
would mean that kunsyakel doesn't necessarily imply that the pretense is 
false.  Perhaps kunsyakel suggests an active/volitional role in the 
appearance that is lacking in the s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse set, which 
might be too weak and passive for the author's intentions.  While the 
latter set might give: "The father seemed totally bewildered...", using 
kunsyakel the result might be: "The father was actively emitting signals 
of total bewilderment...", surely a much more powerful and humorous way of 
expressing the situation.

Sounds like you have found a wonderful resource.  Thanks for sharing!

Rory
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From ti at fa-kuan.muc.de  Tue Feb  5 20:21:19 2008
From: ti at fa-kuan.muc.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?=22Alfred_W._T=FCting=22?=)
Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2008 21:21:19 +0100
Subject: Opening page of "Brave Against the Enemy" (1944)
In-Reply-To: <OF8FC2AE9A.F835E304-ON862573E6.005DD496-862573E6.00626FE7@unl.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.5.FEB.2008.212119.0100.>

 > Atkuku kin huinat'age kin otokhetutan'inshniyan kunsyakel namahehe  
iyeya yanke he shunkthahu wash'aka
 > k'inkhiyapi iyechelya hugmiyanyan un kah^apapi kin yutiktitan he.


 > Nolan Clark :

 > "His father stamped with doubtful but determined tread on the brake  
pedal and pulled on the wheel as if he were reining a stubborn
 > horse."

(...)


Am 05.02.2008 um 18:55 schrieb Rory M Larson:

>
> > E.g. 'kunsyakel' : I'm not sure exactly why the father would be  
> 'pretending/simulating' anything, at this point?!
> Unless 'kunsyakel' here has a weakened sense, meaning not much more  
> than : "apparently/seemingly/to outward appearances"?
> But of course for that idea we have s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse.
>
>
> I'm guessing the "seemingly" sense is approximately correct here,  
> which would mean that kunsyakel doesn't necessarily imply that the  
> pretense is false.  Perhaps kunsyakel suggests an active/volitional  
> role in the appearance that is lacking in the s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/ 
> sekse set, which might be too weak and passive for the author's  
> intentions.  While the latter set might give: "The father seemed  
> totally bewildered...", using kunsyakel the result might be: "The  
> father was actively emitting signals of total bewilderment...",  
> surely a much more powerful and humorous way of expressing the  
> situation.
>
> Sounds like you have found a wonderful resource.  Thanks for sharing!
>
> Rory


oto?etu-tan'in-?ni-yan - lit. maybe about: "things appearing as not  
going"-ADV (i.e. the brakes) kunsyakel namahehe - pretendingly  
treading-in-again and again...

1) The brakes are actually (still) working, albeit quite badly.
2) atkuku is aware of this, yet
3) "kunsyakel" acts as if they actually wouldn't, by "namahehe iyeya"  
again and again treading into them with a fast foot action (?)

I'm not so sure about that na-mahe-he iyeya: maybe its reduplicated to  
denote repeated action. I for one, reading this word am having a  
pretty nice "picture" in front of my eyes ;-) (like: In gespielter  
Verzweiflung or noch(!) nicht ganz echter Verzeiflung -> doubtful but  
determined).

Alfred
________________________________

?aigmuaki?o (AWT)

La?ota iyapi w?u?spe?iye
http://www.fa-kuan.de/LAKSTRUCT.HTML





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From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Tue Feb  5 20:38:11 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 07:38:11 +1100
Subject: Opening page of "Brave Against the Enemy" (1944)
In-Reply-To: <OF8FC2AE9A.F835E304-ON862573E6.005DD496-862573E6.00626FE7@unl.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.6.FEB.2008.073811.1100.>

Thanks Rory, It is indeed a terrific Lakhota resource, and you are  
most welcome, anytime.

Incidentally, that perceptive observation of yours about a possible  
more active/volitional component in kunsyakel, in that context, makes  
a lot of sense to me.
And I agree about the humour & dynamism which might be added to the  
writer's expression, by such a possible nuance.
Hena un lila pilamayayelo.

Clive.

On 06/02/2008, at 4:55 AM, Rory M Larson wrote:

>
> > E.g. 'kunsyakel' : I'm not sure exactly why the father would be  
> 'pretending/simulating' anything, at this point?!
> Unless 'kunsyakel' here has a weakened sense, meaning not much more  
> than : "apparently/seemingly/to outward appearances"?
> But of course for that idea we have s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse.
>
>
> I'm guessing the "seemingly" sense is approximately correct here,  
> which would mean that kunsyakel doesn't necessarily imply that the  
> pretense is false.  Perhaps kunsyakel suggests an active/volitional  
> role in the appearance that is lacking in the s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/ 
> sekse set, which might be too weak and passive for the author's  
> intentions.  While the latter set might give: "The father seemed  
> totally bewildered...", using kunsyakel the result might be: "The  
> father was actively emitting signals of total bewilderment...",  
> surely a much more powerful and humorous way of expressing the  
> situation.
>
> Sounds like you have found a wonderful resource.  Thanks for sharing!
>
> Rory

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From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Tue Feb  5 21:37:23 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 08:37:23 +1100
Subject: Opening page of "Brave Against the Enemy" (1944)
In-Reply-To: <C5B24730-63F4-4CF9-B442-6E28A647FE05@fa-kuan.muc.de>
Message-ID: <WED.6.FEB.2008.083723.1100.>

I thought that the reduplication probably did denote that poor old  
"Dad" was pumping that (prob. "spongy") brake pedal in and out, "in  
gespielter Verzweiflung", as you neatly put it : "in simulated/ 
feigned desperation". Yes, no doubt "ate" would be well aware that  
his huinat'age were a tad "dodgy"!
  "Nicht ganz echter Verzweiflung" : not quite genuine desperation?  
Das ist ja ausgezeichnet, mein Freund!

Clive.

P.S. I also reckon that Rory is spot on with the slightly humorous  
undertone. Sounds reminiscent of Aussie 'deadpan' humour to me!
There's a great old newspaper cartoon from the Great Depression  
years, where two workman are hanging desperately from a windswept  
girder, 50 floors above the street.
One is clinging to the pants of the other, which have slipped down  
around his ankles. The guy clinging to the girder by his fingertips  
says, out of the side of his mouth :
"Don't laugh mate, this is serious!!"

On 06/02/2008, at 7:21 AM, Alfred W. T?ting wrote:

> > Atkuku kin huinat'age kin otokhetutan'inshniyan kunsyakel  
> namahehe iyeya yanke he shunkthahu wash'aka
> > k'inkhiyapi iyechelya hugmiyanyan un kah^apapi kin yutiktitan he.
>
>
> > Nolan Clark :
>
> > "His father stamped with doubtful but determined tread on the  
> brake pedal and pulled on the wheel as if he were reining a stubborn
> > horse."
>
> (...)
>
>
> Am 05.02.2008 um 18:55 schrieb Rory M Larson:
>
>>
>> > E.g. 'kunsyakel' : I'm not sure exactly why the father would be  
>> 'pretending/simulating' anything, at this point?!
>> Unless 'kunsyakel' here has a weakened sense, meaning not much  
>> more than : "apparently/seemingly/to outward appearances"?
>> But of course for that idea we have s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse.
>>
>>
>> I'm guessing the "seemingly" sense is approximately correct here,  
>> which would mean that kunsyakel doesn't necessarily imply that the  
>> pretense is false.  Perhaps kunsyakel suggests an active/ 
>> volitional role in the appearance that is lacking in the  
>> s'elecheca/s'ele/s'e/sekse set, which might be too weak and  
>> passive for the author's intentions.  While the latter set might  
>> give: "The father seemed totally bewildered...", using kunsyakel  
>> the result might be: "The father was actively emitting signals of  
>> total bewilderment...", surely a much more powerful and humorous  
>> way of expressing the situation.
>>
>> Sounds like you have found a wonderful resource.  Thanks for sharing!
>>
>> Rory
>
>
> oto?etu-tan'in-?ni-yan - lit. maybe about: "things appearing as  
> not going"-ADV (i.e. the brakes) kunsyakel namahehe - pretendingly  
> treading-in-again and again...
>
> 1) The brakes are actually (still) working, albeit quite badly.
> 2) atkuku is aware of this, yet
> 3) "kunsyakel" acts as if they actually wouldn't, by "namahehe  
> iyeya" again and again treading into them with a fast foot action (?)
>
> I'm not so sure about that na-mahe-he iyeya: maybe its reduplicated  
> to denote repeated action. I for one, reading this word am having a  
> pretty nice "picture" in front of my eyes ;-) (like: In gespielter  
> Verzweiflung or noch(!) nicht ganz echter Verzeiflung -> doubtful  
> but determined).
>
> Alfred
> ________________________________
>
> ?aigmuaki?o (AWT)
>
> La?ota iyapi w?u?spe?iye
> http://www.fa-kuan.de/LAKSTRUCT.HTML
>
>
>
>
>

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From David.Rood at Colorado.EDU  Fri Feb  8 21:32:40 2008
From: David.Rood at Colorado.EDU (ROOD DAVID S)
Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2008 14:32:40 -0700
Subject: More on Wichita
Message-ID: <FRI.8.FEB.2008.143240.0700.>

Hello, everyone --
 	The rash of public information about Wichita continues to expand. 
Our news dept here at Colorado has just produced a very nice "podcast" 
about saving endangered languages, featuring the work of three of us.  I 
don't think my little discussion of Wichita will tell most of you anything 
new, but I think it might be a nice extra in some intrductory linguistics 
courses, and the pictures of Doris and of historical Wichita phenomena are 
a nice bonus.  Access it via http://www.colorado.edu/news/podcasts.

David S. Rood
Dept. of Linguistics
Univ. of Colorado
295 UCB
Boulder, CO 80309-0295
USA
rood at colorado.edu


From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Tue Feb 12 02:18:23 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:18:23 +1100
Subject: Passages of interest from "Brave Ag. the Enemy"
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.131823.1100.>

1)  (a) Ann NOLAN CLARK's English Original, 1944. [Page 18]

[Young Lakhota boy Louie says to his Dad, Joe :]

Louie : "Father do you see how level his back is from his shoulders  
to his tail?"

Joe :      "He has everything, alright. There is a bull to sire a  
herd!"]


      (b) Emil AFRAID-OF-HAWK's translation [Page 19] :

L : "Ate wanyanki yetho, hinyete kin hetan na sinte kin hehan  
iyagleya chuwi kin lila blaska yelo!"

J. : "Taku oyas'in iyojula thanchan kithun welo. Thabloka kin le etan  
optaye washte wan ichagapi okihi hecha yelo!"


     (c) Back-translation from Lakhota, aimed at ascertaining its  
literal meaning, and structure.

L : "Won't you just take a look, dad! (lit. please look!) From his  
shoulder [hinyete kin hetan] all the way down to his tail [sinte
         kin hehan iyagleya], his back is so (lit. very) level!"

J. : "He has the perfect body/his body's got the lot, that's a fact  
[yelo]."

         (lit. "He's sure grown/possesses a body [thanchankithun]  
full of [iyojula] everything!" [taku oyas'in] (i.e. everything
                  desirable in a prize stud-bull, presumably)  "]

         "From such a bull as this, you/one might breed a great herd  
(OR 'a great herd might be bred')!"

          (lit. "This is the type [hecha] of bull [thabloka kin le]  
from which [etan] it is possible [okihi] a fine herd might be bred
          [ichagapi].")

[NOTES:] Buech.-M. supplies a verb (stative?) thanchaNthon : 'to have  
a body/to be ripe or full-grown'.
Could the above form in the text, (despite thanchan & kithon being  
written separately), perhaps be an unlisted Dative-Possessive (-ki-)  
of that verb?

Questions. :

Is thabloka kin le the subject of hecha, but NOT of okihi as I take  
it to be, and therefore does postposition etan here have a indirect  
relative sense "from which"?

If it IS a relative clause with definite antecedent, mightn't one  
have expected 'wan' with antecedent 'thabloka' and a 'kin' after  
'okihi'? Like so :

"le thabloka wan etan optaye washte wan ichagapi okihi kin hecha yelo!"
[=Here is a bull, one of the sort from which it is possible a fine  
herd may spring!]

Or, if 'etan' directly governs 'thabloka kin le', as it appears to  
do, prima facie,  can 'this bull' simultaneously be the subject of  
'hecha', as well as in regimen with the postposition?

Does 'okihi' have an impersonal sense here, hence lack of animate- 
pluralizing '-pi'?


2.) (a) Ann NOLAN CLARK's Original [Page 18]

"Why is it," she thought, "that Indians never have what they want  
most? Here is my man who worked for forty years building a herd and  
had to see it dwindle and die in as many months. What has he now? He  
has nothing. Not even the hides and the bones are left from a herd of  
a thousand head!"]

      (b) Emil AFRAID-OF-HAWK's Translation [Page 19] :

"Tokheshkhe" echin, "Lakhota kin taku wanji aiyotanh^ci chinpi khesh  
t'inza yuhapi kta okihipi shni? Le wichasha mithawa kin waniyetu  
wikcemna top ptegleshka optaye wan wichayuichagin kte h^cin, na lila  
wowashi echun, na wanwichaglagye h^ci sanp conala ayapi, na  
tonakecapi kin he wiyawapi kin waniyetu yamni ihunniyan sotapi.
Na anpetu kin lehanyan taku yuha he? Takuni h^ci yuha shni.  
Ptegleshka opawinge wikcemna wanji wicayuha tkha k'un etanhan tahalo  
nahuhu e kayesh yuha shni," echin najin he."


      (c) A back-translation from the Lakota :

"How come/How is it?" she thought, "that the Lakhota, although they  
desire a thing above all else [aiyotanh^ci], are (nevertheless)  
unable to keep a firm hold upon it? This husband of mine has put in  
huge efforts [...kte h^cin] to bulid up a buffalo herd for 40 years,  
and has laboured extremely hard, and (yet) even as he watched over  
them, (his own herd) [wanwichaglagye h^ci] (OR perh. "under their  
owner's very gaze") , they thinned out [sanp conala ayapi], and their  
population/numbers [tonakecapi] dwindled to nothing [sotapi] (during/ 
over/within a period of) months [wiyawapi kin] amounting to/totalling  
[ihunniyan] three years. (i.e. about 40 months).
And what has he got these days [anpetu kin lehanyan]? He owns a big  
fat [h^ci] zero.  Out of a thousand head of cattle that he used to  
[tkha k'un] possess, he hasn't even got their hides & bones," she  
reflected as she stood there.

Toksha akhe, mitakuyepi,

Clive.
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From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Tue Feb 12 02:52:56 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 13:52:56 +1100
Subject: Passages of interest from "Brave Ag. the Enemy"
In-Reply-To: <AB5B1C95-5A4B-47B9-ADC3-A064A7D28AF2@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.135256.1100.>

Couple of amendments for clarity's sake.

On 12/02/2008, at 1:18 PM, Clive Bloomfield wrote:

> 1)  (a) Ann NOLAN CLARK's English Original, 1944. [Page 18]
>
>
> Joe :      ".... There is a bull to sire a herd!"]
>
>
>      (b) Emil AFRAID-OF-HAWK's translation [Page 19] :
>
> J. : "Thabloka kin le etan optaye washte wan ichagapi okihi hecha  
> yelo!"
>
>
>
> Questions. :
>
> Is thabloka kin le the subject of hecha - but NOT of okihi - (as I  
> took it to be), and therefore does postposition etan here have a  
> indirect relative sense "from which"?
>
>

> 2.) (a) Ann NOLAN CLARK's Original [Page 18]
>
> "....( for forty years ....) a herd...."]
>
>      (b) Emil AFRAID-OF-HAWK's Translation [Page 19] :

> ".... (waniyetu wikcemna top) ptegleshka optaye wan ..."
>
>
>      (c) A back-translation from the Lakota :
>
> " .... a  herd of cattle (for 40 years)...."
>

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From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU  Tue Feb 12 17:49:59 2008
From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Jill Greer)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 11:49:59 -0600
Subject: Indian Country Today
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.114959.0600.>

Hi, all,
In case you don't regularly read Indian Country Today, there was an article on Feb. 6th entitled "Ho-Chunk tribe members try to revive Native language"  on page 11 (www.indiancountry.com)

Best,
Jill


From FurbeeL at missouri.edu  Tue Feb 12 20:49:04 2008
From: FurbeeL at missouri.edu (Furbee, Louanna)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:49:04 -0600
Subject: Indian Country Today
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.144904.0600.>

Hi Jill, 
I don't ever see this journal.  I'm in Chiapas at present, so that makes it harder.  So, if you have the article, save it!
How's life and time?  We're busy busy with having just arrived here and trying to set up house in Comitan (as well as keep the apartment in San Cristobal). 


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jill Greer
Sent: Tue 2/12/2008 11:49 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu
Subject: Indian Country Today
 
Hi, all,
In case you don't regularly read Indian Country Today, there was an article on Feb. 6th entitled "Ho-Chunk tribe members try to revive Native language"  on page 11 (www.indiancountry.com)

Best,
Jill


From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU  Tue Feb 12 21:25:16 2008
From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Jill Greer)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:25:16 -0600
Subject: Indian Country Today
In-Reply-To: <96928448AD823E46B232929E0E4386702B1186@UM-XMAIL03.um.umsystem.edu>
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.152516.0600.>

Hi, Louanna!
Will do for sure.  If I get it scanned, I'll send it along... I wondered exactly where you guys were right now.  Better than the ice storms of SW Missouri I hope!

A belated thanks for the Christmas card and letter-  and Congratulations for the Lifetime Achievement Award!!!!  I wanted to visit the webpages, but haven't remembered to bring the letter to the office (no internet at home right now...  the price for living in the backwoods)

Life is good -  just a few too many funerals of late.  My mom's side is losing elders, and I realize I am middle-aged whether I like it or not!  

I saw your & Dave Schaul's and Bob's, and Debbie Pearsall's names in print recently (from book flyers to citations in Brian Fagan's Prehistory of the Earth text book) and it was so much fun to actually know the person referenced...!

How is Debbie doing, by the way? 

Better get back to work -  we have tons of assessment junk going on before the Higher Learning Commission (??) comes for accreditation in April.  Plus, lots of changes -  The President of  30 years retired in Sept (not by choice :), and they just hired the new one, and two VPs are leaving, so the Dean of A&S is stepping up to VP, and our department head is temporarily assistant dean to help out!!  (This after he was trying to step down as department head in the fall, poor guy!)

Hey, by the way, are you still the few, the proud Mac users?  I have an ulterior motive for asking -  I need to get IPA fonts for my PC at work, something I had managed to avoid so far...  My social science colleagues are pretty much "WHat is IPA anyway?"

It's so good to hear from you.  Give hugs to Bob, and let him return the favor (Valentine's Day is coming up after all!).

love,
Jill


>>> "Furbee, Louanna" <FurbeeL at missouri.edu> 2/12/2008 2:49 pm >>>
Hi Jill, 
I don't ever see this journal.  I'm in Chiapas at present, so that makes it harder.  So, if you have the article, save it!
How's life and time?  We're busy busy with having just arrived here and trying to set up house in Comitan (as well as keep the apartment in San Cristobal). 


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jill Greer
Sent: Tue 2/12/2008 11:49 AM
To: siouan at lists.colorado.edu 
Subject: Indian Country Today
 
Hi, all,
In case you don't regularly read Indian Country Today, there was an article on Feb. 6th entitled "Ho-Chunk tribe members try to revive Native language"  on page 11 (www.indiancountry.com)

Best,
Jill


From goodtracks at peoplepc.com  Tue Feb 12 21:40:09 2008
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2008 15:40:09 -0600
Subject: Fw: Article from Indian Country Today
Message-ID: <TUE.12.FEB.2008.154009.0600.>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com 
To: goodtracks at peoplepc.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:57 PM
Subject: Article from Indian Country Today


Jimm G. GoodTracks has sent you an Article from the Indian Country Today website. 


           
              
            Ho-Chunk tribe members try to revive Native language 
            by: The Associated Press 
            ? Indian Country Today February 04, 2008. All Rights Reserved 
              
            BARABOO, Wis. (AP) - Georgia Lonetree missed speaking her Native language so much that she used to drive around Arizona looking for roadside objects she could name in Ho-Chunk. 

            The teacher at an American Indian boarding school returned to Wisconsin, and said hearing her tribe's language again was overwhelming. 

            ''It sometimes brought tears to my eyes and a lump to my throat when I'd hear my elders pray,'' she said. 

            Lonetree now teaches Ho-Chunk to high school students in Wisconsin Dells and Black River Falls. Only a handful of students participate, but she's hopeful the program's popularity will grow. 

            ''The people of the big voice'' have reached a crossroads with the deaths of three elder Ho-Chunk language teachers in the last year. The tribe is launching an effort to revitalize the dying language. 

            One of the recently deceased elders, William O'Brien of Mauston, had been working with German linguists to create a Ho-Chunk lexicon, an inventory of the tribe's vocabulary, tribal leaders said. 

            Others will try to carry on his effort, but his colleagues say O'Brien's death was a huge loss to the tribe. O'Brien moved away from Wisconsin, but returned years later, staying fluent in Ho-Chunk. 

            ''That was a big boost to see that somebody spending many years away from here was still able to retain their language,'' said Richard Mann, manager of the Ho-Chunk Nation's Language Division. 

            Mann said his parents spoke in Ho-Chunk to him, and that's all they spoke even though they allowed him to respond in English. 

            ''There were a few that spoke English, but by and large, back then, when somebody was speaking English, they'd say, 'Oh, the white man must have come in the door.' They'd make fun of them,'' Mann said. 

            After touting language preservation as part of his platform, recently elected Ho-Chunk President Wilfrid Cleveland proclaimed 2008 the year of the Ho-Chunk language. 

            Cleveland's staff members are taking daily classes, and nation officials are encouraging tribe members to speak Ho-Chunk more in their personal lives and at work. 

            Mann said a language CD is also under way and an interactive Web site lets tribe members learn from home. Mann said he hopes the proclamation will get the tribe's youth interested. 

            ''Within the last four or five decades, the language has slowly dropped off,'' Mann said. ''But once that's gone, we're gone as a people. Fortunately, we've got some young people that are really trying hard to learn, so it's up to us to teach them.'' 

            It's estimated that only about 200 of the 6,800 members of the Ho-Chunk Nation speak the language, said Ho-Chunk spokesman Anne Thundercloud. 
              
            Please visit the Indian Country Today website for more articles related to this topic. 
     
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From cbloom at ozemail.com.au  Fri Feb 15 00:11:15 2008
From: cbloom at ozemail.com.au (Clive Bloomfield)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 11:11:15 +1100
Subject: Passages of interest from "Brave Ag. the Enemy"
In-Reply-To: <AB5B1C95-5A4B-47B9-ADC3-A064A7D28AF2@ozemail.com.au>
Message-ID: <FRI.15.FEB.2008.111115.1100.>

Questions. :

Emil Afraid-Of-Hawk text :

"Thabloka kin le etan optaye washte wan ichagapi okihi hecha yelo!"

If it WERE a relative clause with Definite Antecedent, mightn't one  
have expected 'wan' with antecedent 'thabloka' and a 'KIN' after  
'okihi'? Like so :

"le thabloka WAN etan optaye washte wan ichagapi okihi KIN hecha yelo!"
[=Here is a bull, one of the sort from which it is possible a fine  
herd may spring!]


Perhaps an even more accurate translation of such a sentence as this  
may be :

"Here/this is THE kind of bull from which it is possible that a fine  
herd may spring/be bred"

(Which is, incidentally, how I would wish to translate the E.AOH text)


Whereas if it were a relative clause with Indefinite Antecedent, like  
so :

"le thabloka WAN etan optaye wan ichagapi okihi CHA hecha yelo."

[=This is A variety of bull from which...(etc.)]

Would there be a subtle difference there in the Lakhota? Doesn't seem  
to be a great deal in the English, but I guess that would be beside  
the point here.

If okihi IS being used Personally, (rather than Impersonally, as I  
supposed), its complimentation of ichagapi would appear to be  
somewhat irregular, would it not?
With this particular verb used personally, the two subjects, 
(principal & subordinate), would normally be one & the same [SS], &  
either agree "echo-pronominalization" (Pustet, Paper in Studies in  
Language, 24:1 137-170) or show only "higher predicate encoding" of  
the (principal verb) subject, no?
Here in E.AOH's original, there appears to be "lower predicate  
encoding" without concord with higher predicate, very odd!
Which is why I thought it may be impersonal here, or perhaps used  
adverbially/modally, in some way.
I realize that okihi is classified as an [SS/OO] verb when the  
subordinate verb/lower predicate is transitive, but the [OO] part of  
parsing that does not seem applicable here.

Can anyone please clear up my confusion here?

Toksha akhe, mitakuyepi,

Clive.





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From FurbeeL at missouri.edu  Sat Feb 16 01:44:40 2008
From: FurbeeL at missouri.edu (Furbee, Louanna)
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2008 19:44:40 -0600
Subject: Article from Indian Country Today
Message-ID: <FRI.15.FEB.2008.194440.0600.>

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.colorado.edu on behalf of Jimm GoodTracks
Sent: Tue 2/12/2008 3:40 PM
To: iowaysonline at yahoogroups.com
Subject: Fw: Article from Indian Country Today
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: goodtracks at peoplepc.com 
To: goodtracks at peoplepc.com 
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 2:57 PM
Subject: Article from Indian Country Today


Jimm G. GoodTracks has sent you an Article from the Indian Country Today website. 


           
              
            Ho-Chunk tribe members try to revive Native language 
            by: The Associated Press 
            ? Indian Country Today February 04, 2008. All Rights Reserved 
              
            BARABOO, Wis. (AP) - Georgia Lonetree missed speaking her Native language so much that she used to drive around Arizona looking for roadside objects she could name in Ho-Chunk. 

            The teacher at an American Indian boarding school returned to Wisconsin, and said hearing her tribe's language again was overwhelming. 

            ''It sometimes brought tears to my eyes and a lump to my throat when I'd hear my elders pray,'' she said. 

            Lonetree now teaches Ho-Chunk to high school students in Wisconsin Dells and Black River Falls. Only a handful of students participate, but she's hopeful the program's popularity will grow. 

            ''The people of the big voice'' have reached a crossroads with the deaths of three elder Ho-Chunk language teachers in the last year. The tribe is launching an effort to revitalize the dying language. 

            One of the recently deceased elders, William O'Brien of Mauston, had been working with German linguists to create a Ho-Chunk lexicon, an inventory of the tribe's vocabulary, tribal leaders said. 

            Others will try to carry on his effort, but his colleagues say O'Brien's death was a huge loss to the tribe. O'Brien moved away from Wisconsin, but returned years later, staying fluent in Ho-Chunk. 

            ''That was a big boost to see that somebody spending many years away from here was still able to retain their language,'' said Richard Mann, manager of the Ho-Chunk Nation's Language Division. 

            Mann said his parents spoke in Ho-Chunk to him, and that's all they spoke even though they allowed him to respond in English. 

            ''There were a few that spoke English, but by and large, back then, when somebody was speaking English, they'd say, 'Oh, the white man must have come in the door.' They'd make fun of them,'' Mann said. 

            After touting language preservation as part of his platform, recently elected Ho-Chunk President Wilfrid Cleveland proclaimed 2008 the year of the Ho-Chunk language. 

            Cleveland's staff members are taking daily classes, and nation officials are encouraging tribe members to speak Ho-Chunk more in their personal lives and at work. 

            Mann said a language CD is also under way and an interactive Web site lets tribe members learn from home. Mann said he hopes the proclamation will get the tribe's youth interested. 

            ''Within the last four or five decades, the language has slowly dropped off,'' Mann said. ''But once that's gone, we're gone as a people. Fortunately, we've got some young people that are really trying hard to learn, so it's up to us to teach them.'' 

            It's estimated that only about 200 of the 6,800 members of the Ho-Chunk Nation speak the language, said Ho-Chunk spokesman Anne Thundercloud. 
              
            Please visit the Indian Country Today website for more articles related to this topic.