From rankin at ku.edu Mon Oct 5 15:41:43 2009 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 10:41:43 -0500 Subject: Parrish Williams Message-ID: All, Kathy Shea sends the sad news that Parrish Williams has died. He was a fluent Ponca speaker, a tribal elder and an important figure in the Native American Church. Bob From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU Mon Oct 5 16:38:17 2009 From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Jill Greer) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:38:17 -0500 Subject: Parrish Williams In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F58CC@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: And a truly wonderful human being. I count it one of the privileges of my life to have met Parrish and been a guest in his tipi. One of our Iowa elders, Arthur Lightfoot had an adoptive relation to Parrish's late wife, so that was the context for initially meeting him. He and Grampa Truman Dailey (Otoe-Missouria) were called upon to fly to Portland (?) to testify for Sen. Inouwe's committee on religious freedom after the Smith vs. Oregon case, and both of these elder roadman's testimonies appear in the wonderful Kifaru Production documentary Peyote Road. He was also featured in Alice Anderton's "Word Path" program, which was such a wonderful episode I often use it in my classes. Jill >>> "Rankin, Robert L" 10/5/2009 10:41 AM >>> All, Kathy Shea sends the sad news that Parrish Williams has died. He was a fluent Ponca speaker, a tribal elder and an important figure in the Native American Church. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 6 02:23:38 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:23:38 -0700 Subject: Root Words In-Reply-To: <4A51DF950200007300245C07@gw004.cc.uregina.ca> Message-ID: I am not sure I am posting this correctly, if not I appoligize in advance of my ignorance.   I wanted to point out that there may be a striking resemblance between the names/words Hassinunga and Monahassanugh. Is this a root word hassin or hassan as in the root word for Nahyssan (hyssan).   Are the a's and y's interchangable with out significant distortion of meaning? Is it possible that these words share a common root?  Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kdshea at aol.com Tue Oct 6 03:51:29 2009 From: kdshea at aol.com (Kathleen Shea) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:51:29 -0500 Subject: Parrish Williams Message-ID: Thank-you, Bob, for posting this on the Siouan list for me and, Jill, for your kind comments. I don't have it in me to write much at this time, but I will try to give a fuller report to the list later. I'll copy here what I wrote tonight to my family in California to let them know what has ocurred: Parrish Williams--"Uncle" Parrish--passed away Sunday morning peacefully in his sleep surrounded by family. He was 96. I had just gotten to Ponca City Saturday night. I went to a prayer meeting led by the Methodist minister at his home last night, where the funeral will be Wednesday. There will be an all-night meeting of the Native American Church at the home Tuesday night. (Uncle Parrish was very ecumenical.) As is traditional, the funeral takes place on the fourth day, with a feast, give-away, and a graveside ceremony. His death was timely but of course still a shock. I am saddened, will miss him, and learned a lot from him. His family are good people and treated me very well, accepting me as one of the family. I'm writing this from Lawrence, where I drove today to try to get my 2008 taxes in the mail, and I'll drive back down to Ponca City for the supper before the NAC meeting tomorrow. I just wanted you to know what's happening to me and my whereabouts. If you want to read his obituary, it should appear in tomorrow afternoon's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com. Please spread the word to others if you like, as I'm afraid of leaving someone out if I try to add more e-mail addresses. Jill, I just want to add that, when I first went to Oklahoma in the summer of 1994 to start working with Uncle Parrish, he told me that it was due largely to Grandpa Truman's encouragement and good experience working with you, Lori Stanley, and Louanna Furbee that he decided to meet me and ultimately committed himself to working with me as long as I stayed with the project. He proved to be an extremely intelligent and excellent teacher. Grandpa Truman was about ten years older than Uncle Parrish and was one of his mentors. I would say that they were both magnanimous, interested in the welfare of their people, and true citizens of the world. Another strong mentor for Uncle Parrish was his grandpa (?) Ed Packhorse, who gave him his fireplace. Uncle Parrish always aspired to live as long as Grandpa Ed, and he did! (Grandpa Truman lived to be about the same age as both of them, too.) I'm very lucky to have had Uncle Parrish as my teacher, friend, and adopted relative for as long as I have--fifteen years. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jill Greer To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Parrish Williams And a truly wonderful human being. I count it one of the privileges of my life to have met Parrish and been a guest in his tipi. One of our Iowa elders, Arthur Lightfoot had an adoptive relation to Parrish's late wife, so that was the context for initially meeting him. He and Grampa Truman Dailey (Otoe-Missouria) were called upon to fly to Portland (?) to testify for Sen. Inouwe's committee on religious freedom after the Smith vs. Oregon case, and both of these elder roadman's testimonies appear in the wonderful Kifaru Production documentary Peyote Road. He was also featured in Alice Anderton's "Word Path" program, which was such a wonderful episode I often use it in my classes. Jill >>> "Rankin, Robert L" 10/5/2009 10:41 AM >>> All, Kathy Shea sends the sad news that Parrish Williams has died. He was a fluent Ponca speaker, a tribal elder and an important figure in the Native American Church. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 6 04:09:10 2009 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 21:09:10 -0700 Subject: Parrish Williams In-Reply-To: <002c01ca4638$4a1e67e0$4001a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: I am sorry to hear about the death of Parrish Williams.  I didn't know him personally, but I've heard Kathy talk about him many times.  Kathy, let me know if you need anything, and have a safe trip back to OK. Dave --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Kathleen Shea wrote: From: Kathleen Shea Subject: Re: Parrish Williams To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 8:51 PM Thank-you, Bob, for posting this on the Siouan list for me and, Jill, for your kind comments.  I don't have it in me to write much at this time, but I will try to give a fuller report to the list later.  I'll copy here what I wrote tonight to my family in California to let them know what has ocurred:   Parrish Williams--"Uncle" Parrish--passed away Sunday morning peacefully in his sleep surrounded by family.  He was 96.  I had just gotten to Ponca City Saturday night.  I went to a prayer meeting led by the Methodist minister at his home last night, where the funeral will be Wednesday.  There will be an all-night meeting of the Native American Church at the home Tuesday night. (Uncle Parrish was very ecumenical.)  As is traditional, the funeral takes place on the fourth day, with a feast, give-away, and a graveside ceremony.   His death was timely but of course still a shock.  I am saddened, will miss him, and learned a lot from him.  His family are good people and treated me very well, accepting me as one of the family.  I'm writing this from Lawrence, where I drove today to try to get my 2008 taxes in the mail, and I'll drive back down to Ponca City for the supper before the NAC meeting tomorrow.  I just wanted you to know what's happening to me and my whereabouts.  If you want to read his obituary, it should appear in tomorrow afternoon's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com.  Please spread the word to others if you like, as I'm afraid of leaving someone out if I try to add more e-mail addresses.   Jill, I just want to add that, when I first went to Oklahoma in the summer of 1994 to start working with Uncle Parrish, he told me that it was due largely to Grandpa Truman's encouragement and good experience working with you, Lori Stanley, and Louanna Furbee that he decided to meet me and ultimately committed himself to working with me as long as I stayed with the project. He proved to be an extremely intelligent and excellent teacher. Grandpa Truman was about ten years older than Uncle Parrish and was one of his mentors.  I would say that they were both magnanimous, interested in the welfare of their people, and true citizens of the world.  Another strong mentor for Uncle Parrish was his grandpa (?) Ed Packhorse, who gave him his fireplace.  Uncle Parrish always aspired to live as long as Grandpa Ed, and he did!  (Grandpa Truman lived to be about the same age as both of them, too.)  I'm very lucky to have had Uncle Parrish as my teacher, friend, and adopted relative for as long as I have--fifteen years.   Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jill Greer To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Parrish Williams And a truly wonderful human being.    I count it one of the privileges of my life to have met Parrish and been a guest in his tipi.    One of our Iowa elders, Arthur Lightfoot had an adoptive relation to Parrish's late wife, so that was the context for initially meeting him.  He and Grampa Truman Dailey (Otoe-Missouria) were called upon to fly to Portland (?) to testify for Sen. Inouwe's committee on religious freedom after the Smith vs. Oregon case, and both of these elder roadman's testimonies appear in the wonderful Kifaru Production documentary Peyote Road.  He was also featured in  Alice Anderton's "Word Path" program, which was such a wonderful episode I often use it in my classes.    Jill >>> "Rankin, Robert L" 10/5/2009 10:41 AM >>> All, Kathy Shea sends the sad news that Parrish Williams has died.  He was a fluent Ponca speaker, a tribal elder and an important figure in the Native American Church. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From okibjonathan at yahoo.com Tue Oct 6 17:08:51 2009 From: okibjonathan at yahoo.com (Jonathan Holmes) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 10:08:51 -0700 Subject: Parrish Williams In-Reply-To: <126281.56144.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.poncacitynews.com/templates/65894112360351.bsp     "If you love your freedom, thank a Vet." --- On Mon, 10/5/09, David Kaufman wrote: From: David Kaufman Subject: Re: Parrish Williams To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 11:09 PM I am sorry to hear about the death of Parrish Williams.  I didn't know him personally, but I've heard Kathy talk about him many times.  Kathy, let me know if you need anything, and have a safe trip back to OK. Dave --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Kathleen Shea wrote: From: Kathleen Shea Subject: Re: Parrish Williams To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 8:51 PM Thank-you, Bob, for posting this on the Siouan list for me and, Jill, for your kind comments.  I don't have it in me to write much at this time, but I will try to give a fuller report to the list later.  I'll copy here what I wrote tonight to my family in California to let them know what has ocurred:   Parrish Williams--"Uncle" Parrish--passed away Sunday morning peacefully in his sleep surrounded by family.  He was 96.  I had just gotten to Ponca City Saturday night.  I went to a prayer meeting led by the Methodist minister at his home last night, where the funeral will be Wednesday.  There will be an all-night meeting of the Native American Church at the home Tuesday night. (Uncle Parrish was very ecumenical.)  As is traditional, the funeral takes place on the fourth day, with a feast, give-away, and a graveside ceremony.   His death was timely but of course still a shock.  I am saddened, will miss him, and learned a lot from him.  His family are good people and treated me very well, accepting me as one of the family.  I'm writing this from Lawrence, where I drove today to try to get my 2008 taxes in the mail, and I'll drive back down to Ponca City for the supper before the NAC meeting tomorrow.  I just wanted you to know what's happening to me and my whereabouts.  If you want to read his obituary, it should appear in tomorrow afternoon's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com.  Please spread the word to others if you like, as I'm afraid of leaving someone out if I try to add more e-mail addresses.   Jill, I just want to add that, when I first went to Oklahoma in the summer of 1994 to start working with Uncle Parrish, he told me that it was due largely to Grandpa Truman's encouragement and good experience working with you, Lori Stanley, and Louanna Furbee that he decided to meet me and ultimately committed himself to working with me as long as I stayed with the project. He proved to be an extremely intelligent and excellent teacher. Grandpa Truman was about ten years older than Uncle Parrish and was one of his mentors.  I would say that they were both magnanimous, interested in the welfare of their people, and true citizens of the world.  Another strong mentor for Uncle Parrish was his grandpa (?) Ed Packhorse, who gave him his fireplace.  Uncle Parrish always aspired to live as long as Grandpa Ed, and he did!  (Grandpa Truman lived to be about the same age as both of them, too.)  I'm very lucky to have had Uncle Parrish as my teacher, friend, and adopted relative for as long as I have--fifteen years.   Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jill Greer To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Parrish Williams And a truly wonderful human being.    I count it one of the privileges of my life to have met Parrish and been a guest in his tipi.    One of our Iowa elders, Arthur Lightfoot had an adoptive relation to Parrish's late wife, so that was the context for initially meeting him.  He and Grampa Truman Dailey (Otoe-Missouria) were called upon to fly to Portland (?) to testify for Sen. Inouwe's committee on religious freedom after the Smith vs. Oregon case, and both of these elder roadman's testimonies appear in the wonderful Kifaru Production documentary Peyote Road.  He was also featured in  Alice Anderton's "Word Path" program, which was such a wonderful episode I often use it in my classes.    Jill >>> "Rankin, Robert L" 10/5/2009 10:41 AM >>> All, Kathy Shea sends the sad news that Parrish Williams has died.  He was a fluent Ponca speaker, a tribal elder and an important figure in the Native American Church. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed Oct 7 15:08:15 2009 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L.) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 10:08:15 -0500 Subject: Root Words Message-ID: > I wanted to point out that there may be a striking resemblance between the names/words Hassinunga and Monahassanugh. Is this a root word hassin or hassan as in the root word for Nahyssan (hyssan). Are the a's and y's interchangable with out significant distortion of meaning? Is it possible that these words share a common root?  These may indeed be the same word. The Tutelo term for themselves was transcribed by competent phoneticians as YesaN by modern linguists (where N is the raised "n" that marks nasalization of the preceding vowel). All of the colonial transcriptions from the 17th and 18th centuries were done by amateurs who did not know the language, so they are prone to include portions of preceding or following words in the "names" they wrote down. For example the ending -nunga is probably naNke, the verb 'to dwell' that also occurs, spelled differently, in the name Steukenhocks/Stenkenoks, etc. steNki 'island', naNk-s 'they dwell' or 'dwellers'. As for the a and y, it is pretty common in Indian languages of the Southeast for the sound [a] to be written with a y in colonial sources. The reason is that the English diphthong [ay], as in the pronoun "I", is pronounced [a:], often written "ah" in comic-book English, by people who speak with a "southern accent". So when they heard [a] or [a:], they often wrote it "i" or "y". This only holds true for a "y" written between two consonants, of course. The mona- part of the name in some sources is unexplained. It appears in the wrong place syntactically to be 'land', I think. Bob Rankin From ahartley at d.umn.edu Wed Oct 7 15:23:43 2009 From: ahartley at d.umn.edu (Alan H. Hartley) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 10:23:43 -0500 Subject: Root Words In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F58D0@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: Rankin, Robert L. wrote: > As for the a and y, it is pretty common in Indian languages of the > Southeast for the sound [a] to be written with a y in colonial > sources. The reason is that the English diphthong [ay], as in the > pronoun "I", is pronounced [a:], often written "ah" in comic-book > English, by people who speak with a "southern accent". Hi, Bob. I believe the monophthongization of [ay] (part of the "Southern Shift") didn't take place till well into the nineteenth century. Alan From saponi360 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 11 15:35:15 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 08:35:15 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Message-ID: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages have been classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other?   For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South.   I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages.       Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Sun Oct 11 16:28:45 2009 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:28:45 -0500 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Message-ID: That's pretty "iffy". Theoretically it might be possible to proceed if the word had good cognates in Biloxi and Ofo AND cognates in Mississippi Valley Siouan. This latter would assure us that the word at least existed in a predictable form before the split between Virginia Siouan and Biloxi-Ofo. Tutelo could then be assumed to have had the word originally even if it was lost later. To try all of this one would also need to understand the grammars of the languages. For instance, the Biloxi term for South is obviously poly-morphemic and cries out for analysis. And what does /eke topi/ really mean? Is /topi/ somehow related to to:pa 'four'? What's /eke/? As for specific directions, it might pay to look at how all the other Siouan languages do it. In MVS the N/S terms are related to 'upstream' and 'downstream'. The E/W terms may relate to where the sun rises and sets -- that sort of thing. It's not possible to do these things in a vacuum by just looking up words in Dorsey and Swanton alone, I'm afraid. Bob -----Original Message----- Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages have been classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other?   For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions separatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South.   I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages.       Scott P. Collins From saponi360 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 11 19:52:42 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:52:42 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Message-ID: mon eke topi...sorry about my bad phonetics, maniakle topa is most likely the correct spelling although the correct grammer may be topa maniakle.   To:pa is four and maniankle: is wind based on Oliverio.       Scott P. Collins --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 11:28 AM That's pretty "iffy".  Theoretically it might be possible to proceed if the word had good cognates in Biloxi and Ofo AND cognates in Mississippi Valley Siouan.  This latter would assure us that the word at least existed in a predictable form before the split between Virginia Siouan and Biloxi-Ofo.  Tutelo could then be assumed to have had the word originally even if it was lost later.  To try all of this one would also need to understand the grammars of the languages.  For instance, the Biloxi term for South is obviously poly-morphemic and cries out for analysis.  And what does /eke topi/ really mean?  Is /topi/ somehow related to to:pa 'four'?  What's /eke/? As for specific directions, it might pay to look at how all the other Siouan languages do it.  In MVS the N/S terms are related to 'upstream' and 'downstream'.  The E/W terms may relate to where the sun rises and sets -- that sort of thing.  It's not possible to do these things in a vacuum by just looking up words in Dorsey and Swanton alone, I'm afraid. Bob -----Original Message----- Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages have been classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other?   For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions separatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South.   I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages.       Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 11 21:18:38 2009 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:18:38 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <120809.23556.qm@web83507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Scott, I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).  I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).  That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)  That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).  As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.  So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. David Kaufman --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages have been classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other?   For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South.   I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages.       Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Mon Oct 12 17:13:33 2009 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:13:33 -0500 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Message-ID: Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel. So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico. Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections. Always cross-check. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Scott, I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).  I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).  That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)  That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).  As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.  So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. David Kaufman --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages have been classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other?   For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South.   I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages.       Scott P. Collins From David.Rood at Colorado.EDU Mon Oct 12 17:35:35 2009 From: David.Rood at Colorado.EDU (ROOD DAVID S) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:35:35 -0600 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F58E2@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'. Does that help figure out the Biloxi? If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel. So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico. Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections. Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with > the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English > index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and > examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect > glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, > nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of > which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).� I also have inahuye, > which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes > (east).� That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean > falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in > the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)� That ide actually just > means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the > word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) > 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).� As for > south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just > means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean > nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out > yet what that nyu refers to.� So it seems to be 'something or other > comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages�have been�classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? > � > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. > � > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. > � > � > � > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 12 18:23:05 2009 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:23:05 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, Bob and Dave.  I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?  I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.  Does that help figure out the Biloxi?  If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.  So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.  Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.  Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).  I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).  That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)  That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).  As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.  So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages have been classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? >   > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. >   > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. >   >   >   > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > � -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Mon Oct 12 21:02:20 2009 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:02:20 -0500 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Message-ID: I certainly think it's something like the two Daves suggest. But FYI the rain probably wouldn't normally come from the South down there. Prob. mostly from the West and NW, but who knows? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Mon 10/12/2009 1:23 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Thanks, Bob and Dave.  I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?  I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.  Does that help figure out the Biloxi?  If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.  So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.  Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.  Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).  I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).  That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)  That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).  As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.  So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages have been classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? >   > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. >   > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. >   >   >   > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > ? From rgraczyk at aol.com Mon Oct 12 22:37:40 2009 From: rgraczyk at aol.com (rgraczyk at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:37:40 -0400 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Crow has bulu'aka 'downstream, north' and uhpa 'upstream, south'.? That always made good sense to me, since the rivers in Crow country generally flow north to the Yellowstone.? Is the same true in Lakota country?? How about the other branches of Dakotan?? Do they have the same terms? Randy -----Original Message----- From: ROOD DAVID S To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2009 11:35 am Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'. Does that help figure out the Biloxi? If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward.? ? David S. Rood? Dept. of Linguistics? Univ. of Colorado? 295 UCB? Boulder, CO 80309-0295? USA? rood at colorado.edu? ? On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote:? ? > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel. So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico. Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections. Always cross-check.? >? > Bob? >? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman? > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM? > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU? > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language? >? > Scott,? >? > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with > the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English > index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and > examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect > glosses and translations.? >? > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, > nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.--? >? > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of > which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).? I also have inahuye, > which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes > (east).? That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean > falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in > the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)? That ide actually just > means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the > word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) > 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).? As for > south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just > means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean > nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out > yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other > comes' but I don't know what that something coming is! .? >? > David Kaufman? >? >? >? > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote:? >? > From: Scott Collins ? > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language? > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU? > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM? >? > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other?? > ?? > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South.? > ?? > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages.? > ?? > ?? > ?? >? >? > Scott P. Collins? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 13 00:06:34 2009 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:06:34 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F58E8@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: The other Dave suggested it might be the southward flow of the rivers in that region.  That probably makes the most sense - "place where [river] water comes [down from the north]".  Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:02 PM I certainly think it's something like the two Daves suggest.  But FYI the rain probably wouldn't normally come from the South down there.  Prob. mostly from the West and NW, but who knows? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Mon 10/12/2009 1:23 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Thanks, Bob and Dave.  I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?  I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.  Does that help figure out the Biloxi?  If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.  So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.  Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.  Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).  I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).  That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)  That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).  As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.  So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages have been classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? >   > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. >   > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. >   >   >   > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > ?       -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 13 03:24:32 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:24:32 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <571623.59288.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you so much for the information on these directionals.   Scott P. Collins WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.” --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://religiousfreedomwithraptors.110mb.com/ http://www.petitiononline.com/RFREagle/petition.html --- On Mon, 10/12/09, David Kaufman wrote: From: David Kaufman Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 7:06 PM The other Dave suggested it might be the southward flow of the rivers in that region.  That probably makes the most sense - "place where [river] water comes [down from the north]".  Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:02 PM I certainly think it's something like the two Daves suggest.  But FYI the rain probably wouldn't normally come from the South down there.  Prob. mostly from the West and NW, but who knows? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Mon 10/12/2009 1:23 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Thanks, Bob and Dave.  I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?  I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.  Does that help figure out the Biloxi?  If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.  So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.  Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.  Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).  I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).  That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)  That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).  As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.  So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages have been classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? >   > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. >   > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. >   >   >   > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > ?       -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 13 06:05:46 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:05:46 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <571623.59288.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Thanks, Bob and Dave.  I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?  I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave"   Instead of 'the water comes there'...could it be 'the water lays there' or simply 'the big water there'? Scott P. Collins WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.” --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://religiousfreedomwithraptors.110mb.com/ http://www.petitiononline.com/RFREagle/petition.html --- On Mon, 10/12/09, David Kaufman wrote: From: David Kaufman Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 7:06 PM The other Dave suggested it might be the southward flow of the rivers in that region.  That probably makes the most sense - "place where [river] water comes [down from the north]".  Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:02 PM I certainly think it's something like the two Daves suggest.  But FYI the rain probably wouldn't normally come from the South down there.  Prob. mostly from the West and NW, but who knows? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Mon 10/12/2009 1:23 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Thanks, Bob and Dave.  I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?  I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.  Does that help figure out the Biloxi?  If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.  So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.  Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.  Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).  I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).  That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)  That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).  As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.  So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages have been classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? >   > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. >   > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. >   >   >   > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > ?       -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 13 06:20:15 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:20:15 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <436663.23839.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.  So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman"   In some Indian stories the moon chases after the sun. Perhaps the nyu or some variant may be an old name for this diety associated with the moon or interaction. The moon is associated with water in many cultures and so perhaps speculatively the water is traping or hiding the sun by drawing it down. Or perhaps the sun is hiding in the water to escape the moon chasing after. Just a thought.   Scott P. Collins WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.” --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://religiousfreedomwithraptors.110mb.com/ http://www.petitiononline.com/RFREagle/petition.html --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 1:05 AM "Thanks, Bob and Dave.  I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?  I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave"   Instead of 'the water comes there'...could it be 'the water lays there' or simply 'the big water there'? Scott P. Collins WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.” --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://religiousfreedomwithraptors.110mb.com/ http://www.petitiononline.com/RFREagle/petition.html --- On Mon, 10/12/09, David Kaufman wrote: From: David Kaufman Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 7:06 PM The other Dave suggested it might be the southward flow of the rivers in that region.  That probably makes the most sense - "place where [river] water comes [down from the north]".  Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:02 PM I certainly think it's something like the two Daves suggest.  But FYI the rain probably wouldn't normally come from the South down there.  Prob. mostly from the West and NW, but who knows? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Mon 10/12/2009 1:23 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Thanks, Bob and Dave.  I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?  I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.  Does that help figure out the Biloxi?  If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.  So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.  Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.  Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).  I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).  That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)  That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).  As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.  So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages have been classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? >   > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. >   > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. >   >   >   > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > ?       -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Mon Oct 19 13:59:18 2009 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:59:18 -0500 Subject: Projected Increase for Endangered Languages Revitalization Funding | Cultural Survival Message-ID: http://www.culturalsurvival.org/ourpublications/news/article/projected-increase-endangered-languages-revitalization-funding I thought this might be of interest. Mark Awakuni-Swetland http://omahalanguage.unl.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Mon Oct 26 20:10:07 2009 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:10:07 -0500 Subject: Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary update Message-ID: http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/images.php Aloha All, I wanted to share with you the status of the Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary project funded by the NEH as of 26 October 2009. Undergraduate student worker Justin Hathaway has concluded scanning reel #1 of 3 reels containing the James Owen Dorsey 20,000 slip lexicon. Approximately 4,700 images are available for your viewing and research pleasure at the URL, above. This constitutes approximately one-quarter of the slip file. Of the 4,700 images, Graduate Research Assistant Jianguo Wang, and Graduate student worker Jacob Hilton have entered 4,000 lexemes. The graduate student data entry focuses on the lexeme, source (JOD's) part of speech, source (JOD's) translation, link to the scanned image, and dialect designation if any. They fill in the comment field with observations that JOD makes, or to draw our attention to something being crossed out on the image. In the problem field they note things they cannot read or decipher. Catherine Rudin and I are checking each entry. We provide a dictionary English gloss (since many of Dorsey's explanations are lengthy prose). Catherine sorts out JOD's parts of speech and gives the contemporary equivalent, i.e. his adjectives are our stative verbs. With this added information the lexeme receives a level one approval. When we have a small mass of level one lexemes they will be mounted as a preliminary dictionary on the UNL Omaha language website. The Center for Digital Research in the Humanities is already working out a template for how the dictionary will appear. We have an internal release date tentatively set for the end of fall 2009 semester, with a public release in the spring semester 2010. The remaining data on each image (Inflected Forms, Cognates, Sample Sentences, etc.) will be entered by Catherine and me. When all data from an image have been entered into the database it will receive a level two approval. Level one and level two materials will be uploaded in blocks as they become available. Further work on filling out paradigms and eliciting/field checking each lexeme with elder speakers is planned. We thank you for your patience in this complex, exciting project. Regards, Mark Awakuni-Swetland Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Anthropology and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu Phone 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU Tue Oct 27 16:38:30 2009 From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Jill Greer) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:38:30 -0500 Subject: Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Aloha, Mark, Congrats to you, Catherine and the 3 dedicated students for this great undertaking!! Wonderful stuff! Jill >>> Mark J Awakuni-Swetland 10/26/2009 3:10 PM >>> http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/images.php Aloha All, I wanted to share with you the status of the Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary project funded by the NEH as of 26 October 2009. Undergraduate student worker Justin Hathaway has concluded scanning reel #1 of 3 reels containing the James Owen Dorsey 20,000 slip lexicon. Approximately 4,700 images are available for your viewing and research pleasure at the URL, above. This constitutes approximately one-quarter of the slip file. Of the 4,700 images, Graduate Research Assistant Jianguo Wang, and Graduate student worker Jacob Hilton have entered 4,000 lexemes. The graduate student data entry focuses on the lexeme, source (JOD's) part of speech, source (JOD's) translation, link to the scanned image, and dialect designation if any. They fill in the comment field with observations that JOD makes, or to draw our attention to something being crossed out on the image. In the problem field they note things they cannot read or decipher. Catherine Rudin and I are checking each entry. We provide a dictionary English gloss (since many of Dorsey's explanations are lengthy prose). Catherine sorts out JOD's parts of speech and gives the contemporary equivalent, i.e. his adjectives are our stative verbs. With this added information the lexeme receives a level one approval. When we have a small mass of level one lexemes they will be mounted as a preliminary dictionary on the UNL Omaha language website. The Center for Digital Research in the Humanities is already working out a template for how the dictionary will appear. We have an internal release date tentatively set for the end of fall 2009 semester, with a public release in the spring semester 2010. The remaining data on each image (Inflected Forms, Cognates, Sample Sentences, etc.) will be entered by Catherine and me. When all data from an image have been entered into the database it will receive a level two approval. Level one and level two materials will be uploaded in blocks as they become available. Further work on filling out paradigms and eliciting/field checking each lexeme with elder speakers is planned. We thank you for your patience in this complex, exciting project. Regards, Mark Awakuni-Swetland Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Anthropology and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu Phone 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Mon Oct 5 15:41:43 2009 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 10:41:43 -0500 Subject: Parrish Williams Message-ID: All, Kathy Shea sends the sad news that Parrish Williams has died. He was a fluent Ponca speaker, a tribal elder and an important figure in the Native American Church. Bob From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU Mon Oct 5 16:38:17 2009 From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Jill Greer) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 11:38:17 -0500 Subject: Parrish Williams In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F58CC@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: And a truly wonderful human being. I count it one of the privileges of my life to have met Parrish and been a guest in his tipi. One of our Iowa elders, Arthur Lightfoot had an adoptive relation to Parrish's late wife, so that was the context for initially meeting him. He and Grampa Truman Dailey (Otoe-Missouria) were called upon to fly to Portland (?) to testify for Sen. Inouwe's committee on religious freedom after the Smith vs. Oregon case, and both of these elder roadman's testimonies appear in the wonderful Kifaru Production documentary Peyote Road. He was also featured in Alice Anderton's "Word Path" program, which was such a wonderful episode I often use it in my classes. Jill >>> "Rankin, Robert L" 10/5/2009 10:41 AM >>> All, Kathy Shea sends the sad news that Parrish Williams has died. He was a fluent Ponca speaker, a tribal elder and an important figure in the Native American Church. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 6 02:23:38 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:23:38 -0700 Subject: Root Words In-Reply-To: <4A51DF950200007300245C07@gw004.cc.uregina.ca> Message-ID: I am not sure I am posting this correctly, if not I appoligize in advance of my ignorance. ? I wanted to point out that there?may be a striking resemblance between the names/words Hassinunga and Monahassanugh. Is this a root word hassin or hassan as in the root word for Nahyssan (hyssan). ? Are the a's and y's interchangable with out significant distortion of meaning? Is it possible that these words share a common root?? Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kdshea at aol.com Tue Oct 6 03:51:29 2009 From: kdshea at aol.com (Kathleen Shea) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 22:51:29 -0500 Subject: Parrish Williams Message-ID: Thank-you, Bob, for posting this on the Siouan list for me and, Jill, for your kind comments. I don't have it in me to write much at this time, but I will try to give a fuller report to the list later. I'll copy here what I wrote tonight to my family in California to let them know what has ocurred: Parrish Williams--"Uncle" Parrish--passed away Sunday morning peacefully in his sleep surrounded by family. He was 96. I had just gotten to Ponca City Saturday night. I went to a prayer meeting led by the Methodist minister at his home last night, where the funeral will be Wednesday. There will be an all-night meeting of the Native American Church at the home Tuesday night. (Uncle Parrish was very ecumenical.) As is traditional, the funeral takes place on the fourth day, with a feast, give-away, and a graveside ceremony. His death was timely but of course still a shock. I am saddened, will miss him, and learned a lot from him. His family are good people and treated me very well, accepting me as one of the family. I'm writing this from Lawrence, where I drove today to try to get my 2008 taxes in the mail, and I'll drive back down to Ponca City for the supper before the NAC meeting tomorrow. I just wanted you to know what's happening to me and my whereabouts. If you want to read his obituary, it should appear in tomorrow afternoon's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com. Please spread the word to others if you like, as I'm afraid of leaving someone out if I try to add more e-mail addresses. Jill, I just want to add that, when I first went to Oklahoma in the summer of 1994 to start working with Uncle Parrish, he told me that it was due largely to Grandpa Truman's encouragement and good experience working with you, Lori Stanley, and Louanna Furbee that he decided to meet me and ultimately committed himself to working with me as long as I stayed with the project. He proved to be an extremely intelligent and excellent teacher. Grandpa Truman was about ten years older than Uncle Parrish and was one of his mentors. I would say that they were both magnanimous, interested in the welfare of their people, and true citizens of the world. Another strong mentor for Uncle Parrish was his grandpa (?) Ed Packhorse, who gave him his fireplace. Uncle Parrish always aspired to live as long as Grandpa Ed, and he did! (Grandpa Truman lived to be about the same age as both of them, too.) I'm very lucky to have had Uncle Parrish as my teacher, friend, and adopted relative for as long as I have--fifteen years. Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jill Greer To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Parrish Williams And a truly wonderful human being. I count it one of the privileges of my life to have met Parrish and been a guest in his tipi. One of our Iowa elders, Arthur Lightfoot had an adoptive relation to Parrish's late wife, so that was the context for initially meeting him. He and Grampa Truman Dailey (Otoe-Missouria) were called upon to fly to Portland (?) to testify for Sen. Inouwe's committee on religious freedom after the Smith vs. Oregon case, and both of these elder roadman's testimonies appear in the wonderful Kifaru Production documentary Peyote Road. He was also featured in Alice Anderton's "Word Path" program, which was such a wonderful episode I often use it in my classes. Jill >>> "Rankin, Robert L" 10/5/2009 10:41 AM >>> All, Kathy Shea sends the sad news that Parrish Williams has died. He was a fluent Ponca speaker, a tribal elder and an important figure in the Native American Church. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 6 04:09:10 2009 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 21:09:10 -0700 Subject: Parrish Williams In-Reply-To: <002c01ca4638$4a1e67e0$4001a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: I am sorry to hear about the death of Parrish Williams.? I didn't know him personally, but I've heard Kathy talk about him many times.? Kathy, let me know if you need anything, and have a safe trip back to OK. Dave --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Kathleen Shea wrote: From: Kathleen Shea Subject: Re: Parrish Williams To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 8:51 PM Thank-you, Bob, for posting this on the Siouan list for me and, Jill, for your kind comments.? I don't have it in me to write much at this time, but I will try to give a fuller report to the list later.? I'll copy here what I wrote tonight to my family in California to let them know what has ocurred: ? Parrish Williams--"Uncle" Parrish--passed away Sunday morning peacefully in his sleep surrounded by family.? He was 96.? I had just gotten to Ponca City Saturday night.? I went to a prayer meeting led by the Methodist minister at his home last night, where the funeral will be Wednesday.? There will be an all-night meeting of the Native American Church at the home Tuesday night. (Uncle Parrish was very ecumenical.)? As is traditional, the funeral takes place on the fourth day, with a feast, give-away, and a graveside ceremony. ? His death was timely but of course still a shock.? I am saddened, will miss him, and learned a lot from him.? His family are good people and treated me very well, accepting me as one of the family.? I'm writing this from Lawrence, where I drove today to try to get my 2008 taxes in the mail, and I'll drive back down to Ponca City for the supper before the NAC meeting tomorrow.? I just wanted you to know what's happening to me and my whereabouts.? If you want to read his obituary, it should appear in tomorrow afternoon's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com.? Please spread the word to others if you like, as I'm afraid of leaving someone out if I try to add more e-mail addresses. ? Jill, I just want to add that, when I first went to Oklahoma in the summer of 1994 to start working with Uncle Parrish, he told me that it was due largely to Grandpa Truman's encouragement and good experience working with you, Lori Stanley, and Louanna Furbee that he decided to meet me and ultimately committed himself to working with me as long as I stayed with the project.?He proved to be an extremely intelligent and excellent teacher. Grandpa Truman was about ten years older than Uncle Parrish and was one of his mentors.? I would say that they were both magnanimous, interested in the welfare of their people, and true citizens of the world.? Another strong mentor for Uncle Parrish was his grandpa (?) Ed Packhorse, who gave him his fireplace.? Uncle Parrish always aspired to live as long as Grandpa Ed, and he did!? (Grandpa Truman lived to be about the same age as both of them, too.)? I'm very lucky to have had Uncle Parrish as my teacher, friend, and adopted relative for as long as I have--fifteen years. ? Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jill Greer To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Parrish Williams And a truly wonderful human being.? ? I count it one of the privileges of my life to have met Parrish?and been a guest in his tipi.? ? One of our Iowa elders, Arthur Lightfoot had?an adoptive relation to Parrish's late wife,?so that was the context for initially meeting him.??He and Grampa Truman Dailey (Otoe-Missouria) were called upon to fly to?Portland (?)?to testify for Sen. Inouwe's committee on religious freedom after the Smith vs. Oregon case, and both of these elder roadman's testimonies appear in the wonderful Kifaru Production documentary?Peyote Road.? He was also featured in? Alice Anderton's "Word Path" program, which?was such a wonderful episode I often use it in my classes.? ? Jill >>> "Rankin, Robert L" 10/5/2009 10:41 AM >>> All, Kathy Shea sends the sad news that Parrish Williams has died.? He was a fluent Ponca speaker, a tribal elder and an important figure in the Native American Church. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From okibjonathan at yahoo.com Tue Oct 6 17:08:51 2009 From: okibjonathan at yahoo.com (Jonathan Holmes) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 10:08:51 -0700 Subject: Parrish Williams In-Reply-To: <126281.56144.qm@web53808.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: http://www.poncacitynews.com/templates/65894112360351.bsp ? ? "If you love your freedom, thank a Vet." --- On Mon, 10/5/09, David Kaufman wrote: From: David Kaufman Subject: Re: Parrish Williams To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 11:09 PM I am sorry to hear about the death of Parrish Williams.? I didn't know him personally, but I've heard Kathy talk about him many times.? Kathy, let me know if you need anything, and have a safe trip back to OK. Dave --- On Mon, 10/5/09, Kathleen Shea wrote: From: Kathleen Shea Subject: Re: Parrish Williams To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 5, 2009, 8:51 PM Thank-you, Bob, for posting this on the Siouan list for me and, Jill, for your kind comments.? I don't have it in me to write much at this time, but I will try to give a fuller report to the list later.? I'll copy here what I wrote tonight to my family in California to let them know what has ocurred: ? Parrish Williams--"Uncle" Parrish--passed away Sunday morning peacefully in his sleep surrounded by family.? He was 96.? I had just gotten to Ponca City Saturday night.? I went to a prayer meeting led by the Methodist minister at his home last night, where the funeral will be Wednesday.? There will be an all-night meeting of the Native American Church at the home Tuesday night. (Uncle Parrish was very ecumenical.)? As is traditional, the funeral takes place on the fourth day, with a feast, give-away, and a graveside ceremony. ? His death was timely but of course still a shock.? I am saddened, will miss him, and learned a lot from him.? His family are good people and treated me very well, accepting me as one of the family.? I'm writing this from Lawrence, where I drove today to try to get my 2008 taxes in the mail, and I'll drive back down to Ponca City for the supper before the NAC meeting tomorrow.? I just wanted you to know what's happening to me and my whereabouts.? If you want to read his obituary, it should appear in tomorrow afternoon's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com.? Please spread the word to others if you like, as I'm afraid of leaving someone out if I try to add more e-mail addresses. ? Jill, I just want to add that, when I first went to Oklahoma in the summer of 1994 to start working with Uncle Parrish, he told me that it was due largely to Grandpa Truman's encouragement and good experience working with you, Lori Stanley, and Louanna Furbee that he decided to meet me and ultimately committed himself to working with me as long as I stayed with the project.?He proved to be an extremely intelligent and excellent teacher. Grandpa Truman was about ten years older than Uncle Parrish and was one of his mentors.? I would say that they were both magnanimous, interested in the welfare of their people, and true citizens of the world.? Another strong mentor for Uncle Parrish was his grandpa (?) Ed Packhorse, who gave him his fireplace.? Uncle Parrish always aspired to live as long as Grandpa Ed, and he did!? (Grandpa Truman lived to be about the same age as both of them, too.)? I'm very lucky to have had Uncle Parrish as my teacher, friend, and adopted relative for as long as I have--fifteen years. ? Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jill Greer To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Parrish Williams And a truly wonderful human being.? ? I count it one of the privileges of my life to have met Parrish?and been a guest in his tipi.? ? One of our Iowa elders, Arthur Lightfoot had?an adoptive relation to Parrish's late wife,?so that was the context for initially meeting him.??He and Grampa Truman Dailey (Otoe-Missouria) were called upon to fly to?Portland (?)?to testify for Sen. Inouwe's committee on religious freedom after the Smith vs. Oregon case, and both of these elder roadman's testimonies appear in the wonderful Kifaru Production documentary?Peyote Road.? He was also featured in? Alice Anderton's "Word Path" program, which?was such a wonderful episode I often use it in my classes.? ? Jill >>> "Rankin, Robert L" 10/5/2009 10:41 AM >>> All, Kathy Shea sends the sad news that Parrish Williams has died.? He was a fluent Ponca speaker, a tribal elder and an important figure in the Native American Church. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Wed Oct 7 15:08:15 2009 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L.) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 10:08:15 -0500 Subject: Root Words Message-ID: > I wanted to point out that there?may be a striking resemblance between the names/words Hassinunga and Monahassanugh. Is this a root word hassin or hassan as in the root word for Nahyssan (hyssan). Are the a's and y's interchangable with out significant distortion of meaning? Is it possible that these words share a common root?? These may indeed be the same word. The Tutelo term for themselves was transcribed by competent phoneticians as YesaN by modern linguists (where N is the raised "n" that marks nasalization of the preceding vowel). All of the colonial transcriptions from the 17th and 18th centuries were done by amateurs who did not know the language, so they are prone to include portions of preceding or following words in the "names" they wrote down. For example the ending -nunga is probably naNke, the verb 'to dwell' that also occurs, spelled differently, in the name Steukenhocks/Stenkenoks, etc. steNki 'island', naNk-s 'they dwell' or 'dwellers'. As for the a and y, it is pretty common in Indian languages of the Southeast for the sound [a] to be written with a y in colonial sources. The reason is that the English diphthong [ay], as in the pronoun "I", is pronounced [a:], often written "ah" in comic-book English, by people who speak with a "southern accent". So when they heard [a] or [a:], they often wrote it "i" or "y". This only holds true for a "y" written between two consonants, of course. The mona- part of the name in some sources is unexplained. It appears in the wrong place syntactically to be 'land', I think. Bob Rankin From ahartley at d.umn.edu Wed Oct 7 15:23:43 2009 From: ahartley at d.umn.edu (Alan H. Hartley) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 10:23:43 -0500 Subject: Root Words In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F58D0@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: Rankin, Robert L. wrote: > As for the a and y, it is pretty common in Indian languages of the > Southeast for the sound [a] to be written with a y in colonial > sources. The reason is that the English diphthong [ay], as in the > pronoun "I", is pronounced [a:], often written "ah" in comic-book > English, by people who speak with a "southern accent". Hi, Bob. I believe the monophthongization of [ay] (part of the "Southern Shift") didn't take place till well into the nineteenth century. Alan From saponi360 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 11 15:35:15 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 08:35:15 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Message-ID: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? ? For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. ? I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. ? ? ? Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Sun Oct 11 16:28:45 2009 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:28:45 -0500 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Message-ID: That's pretty "iffy". Theoretically it might be possible to proceed if the word had good cognates in Biloxi and Ofo AND cognates in Mississippi Valley Siouan. This latter would assure us that the word at least existed in a predictable form before the split between Virginia Siouan and Biloxi-Ofo. Tutelo could then be assumed to have had the word originally even if it was lost later. To try all of this one would also need to understand the grammars of the languages. For instance, the Biloxi term for South is obviously poly-morphemic and cries out for analysis. And what does /eke topi/ really mean? Is /topi/ somehow related to to:pa 'four'? What's /eke/? As for specific directions, it might pay to look at how all the other Siouan languages do it. In MVS the N/S terms are related to 'upstream' and 'downstream'. The E/W terms may relate to where the sun rises and sets -- that sort of thing. It's not possible to do these things in a vacuum by just looking up words in Dorsey and Swanton alone, I'm afraid. Bob -----Original Message----- Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? ? For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions separatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. ? I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. ? ? ? Scott P. Collins From saponi360 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 11 19:52:42 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:52:42 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Message-ID: mon eke topi...sorry about my bad phonetics, maniakle topa is most likely the correct spelling although the correct grammer may be topa maniakle. ? To:pa is four and maniankle: is wind based on Oliverio. ? ??? Scott P. Collins --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 11:28 AM That's pretty "iffy".? Theoretically it might be possible to proceed if the word had good cognates in Biloxi and Ofo AND cognates in Mississippi Valley Siouan.? This latter would assure us that the word at least existed in a predictable form before the split between Virginia Siouan and Biloxi-Ofo.? Tutelo could then be assumed to have had the word originally even if it was lost later.? To try all of this one would also need to understand the grammars of the languages.? For instance, the Biloxi term for South is obviously poly-morphemic and cries out for analysis.? And what does /eke topi/ really mean?? Is /topi/ somehow related to to:pa 'four'?? What's /eke/? As for specific directions, it might pay to look at how all the other Siouan languages do it.? In MVS the N/S terms are related to 'upstream' and 'downstream'.? The E/W terms may relate to where the sun rises and sets -- that sort of thing.? It's not possible to do these things in a vacuum by just looking up words in Dorsey and Swanton alone, I'm afraid. Bob -----Original Message----- Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? ? For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions separatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. ? I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. ? ? ? Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Sun Oct 11 21:18:38 2009 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 14:18:38 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <120809.23556.qm@web83507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Scott, I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).? I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).? That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)? That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).? As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. David Kaufman --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? ? For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. ? I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. ? ? ? Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Mon Oct 12 17:13:33 2009 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:13:33 -0500 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Message-ID: Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel. So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico. Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections. Always cross-check. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Scott, I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).? I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).? That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)? That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).? As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. David Kaufman --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? ? For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. ? I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. ? ? ? Scott P. Collins From David.Rood at Colorado.EDU Mon Oct 12 17:35:35 2009 From: David.Rood at Colorado.EDU (ROOD DAVID S) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:35:35 -0600 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F58E2@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'. Does that help figure out the Biloxi? If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel. So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico. Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections. Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with > the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English > index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and > examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect > glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, > nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of > which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).? I also have inahuye, > which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes > (east).? That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean > falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in > the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)? That ide actually just > means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the > word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) > 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).? As for > south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just > means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean > nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out > yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other > comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? > ? > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. > ? > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. > ? > ? > ? > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 12 18:23:05 2009 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:23:05 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks, Bob and Dave.? I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?? I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.? Does that help figure out the Biloxi?? If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.? So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.? Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.? Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).? I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).? That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)? That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).? As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? > ? > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. > ? > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. > ? > ? > ? > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Mon Oct 12 21:02:20 2009 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:02:20 -0500 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Message-ID: I certainly think it's something like the two Daves suggest. But FYI the rain probably wouldn't normally come from the South down there. Prob. mostly from the West and NW, but who knows? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Mon 10/12/2009 1:23 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Thanks, Bob and Dave.? I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?? I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.? Does that help figure out the Biloxi?? If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.? So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.? Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.? Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).? I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).? That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)? That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).? As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? > ? > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. > ? > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. > ? > ? > ? > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > ? From rgraczyk at aol.com Mon Oct 12 22:37:40 2009 From: rgraczyk at aol.com (rgraczyk at aol.com) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:37:40 -0400 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Crow has bulu'aka 'downstream, north' and uhpa 'upstream, south'.? That always made good sense to me, since the rivers in Crow country generally flow north to the Yellowstone.? Is the same true in Lakota country?? How about the other branches of Dakotan?? Do they have the same terms? Randy -----Original Message----- From: ROOD DAVID S To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2009 11:35 am Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'. Does that help figure out the Biloxi? If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward.? ? David S. Rood? Dept. of Linguistics? Univ. of Colorado? 295 UCB? Boulder, CO 80309-0295? USA? rood at colorado.edu? ? On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote:? ? > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel. So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico. Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections. Always cross-check.? >? > Bob? >? >? > -----Original Message-----? > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman? > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM? > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU? > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language? >? > Scott,? >? > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with > the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English > index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and > examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect > glosses and translations.? >? > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, > nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.--? >? > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of > which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).? I also have inahuye, > which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes > (east).? That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean > falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in > the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)? That ide actually just > means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the > word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) > 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).? As for > south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just > means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean > nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out > yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other > comes' but I don't know what that something coming is! .? >? > David Kaufman? >? >? >? > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote:? >? > From: Scott Collins ? > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language? > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU? > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM? >? > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other?? > ?? > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South.? > ?? > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages.? > ?? > ?? > ?? >? >? > Scott P. Collins? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? >? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 13 00:06:34 2009 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 17:06:34 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F58E8@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: The other Dave suggested it might be the southward flow of the rivers in that region.? That probably makes the most sense - "place where [river] water comes [down from the north]".? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:02 PM I certainly think it's something like the two Daves suggest.? But FYI the rain probably wouldn't normally come from the South down there.? Prob. mostly from the West and NW, but who knows? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Mon 10/12/2009 1:23 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Thanks, Bob and Dave.? I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?? I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.? Does that help figure out the Biloxi?? If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.? So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.? Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.? Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).? I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).? That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)? That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).? As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? > ? > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. > ? > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. > ? > ? > ? > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 13 03:24:32 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:24:32 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <571623.59288.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thank you so much for the information on these directionals.?? Scott P. Collins WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle ?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.? --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://religiousfreedomwithraptors.110mb.com/ http://www.petitiononline.com/RFREagle/petition.html --- On Mon, 10/12/09, David Kaufman wrote: From: David Kaufman Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 7:06 PM The other Dave suggested it might be the southward flow of the rivers in that region.? That probably makes the most sense - "place where [river] water comes [down from the north]".? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:02 PM I certainly think it's something like the two Daves suggest.? But FYI the rain probably wouldn't normally come from the South down there.? Prob. mostly from the West and NW, but who knows? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Mon 10/12/2009 1:23 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Thanks, Bob and Dave.? I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?? I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.? Does that help figure out the Biloxi?? If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.? So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.? Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.? Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).? I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).? That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)? That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).? As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? > ? > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. > ? > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. > ? > ? > ? > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 13 06:05:46 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:05:46 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <571623.59288.qm@web53803.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Thanks, Bob and Dave.? I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?? I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave" ? Instead of 'the water comes there'...could it be 'the water lays there' or simply 'the big water there'? Scott P. Collins WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle ?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.? --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://religiousfreedomwithraptors.110mb.com/ http://www.petitiononline.com/RFREagle/petition.html --- On Mon, 10/12/09, David Kaufman wrote: From: David Kaufman Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 7:06 PM The other Dave suggested it might be the southward flow of the rivers in that region.? That probably makes the most sense - "place where [river] water comes [down from the north]".? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:02 PM I certainly think it's something like the two Daves suggest.? But FYI the rain probably wouldn't normally come from the South down there.? Prob. mostly from the West and NW, but who knows? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Mon 10/12/2009 1:23 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Thanks, Bob and Dave.? I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?? I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.? Does that help figure out the Biloxi?? If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.? So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.? Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.? Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).? I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).? That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)? That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).? As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? > ? > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. > ? > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. > ? > ? > ? > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Tue Oct 13 06:20:15 2009 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 23:20:15 -0700 Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language In-Reply-To: <436663.23839.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman" ? In some Indian stories the moon chases after the sun. Perhaps the nyu or some variant may be an old name for?this diety associated with the moon or interaction. The moon is associated with?water in many cultures and so perhaps speculatively the water is traping or hiding the sun by?drawing it down. Or perhaps the sun is hiding in the water to escape the moon chasing?after. Just a thought.?? Scott P. Collins WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle ?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.? --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://religiousfreedomwithraptors.110mb.com/ http://www.petitiononline.com/RFREagle/petition.html --- On Tue, 10/13/09, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Tuesday, October 13, 2009, 1:05 AM "Thanks, Bob and Dave.? I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?? I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave" ? Instead of 'the water comes there'...could it be 'the water lays there' or simply 'the big water there'? Scott P. Collins WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle ?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.? --------------------------------------------------------------------- http://religiousfreedomwithraptors.110mb.com/ http://www.petitiononline.com/RFREagle/petition.html --- On Mon, 10/12/09, David Kaufman wrote: From: David Kaufman Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 7:06 PM The other Dave suggested it might be the southward flow of the rivers in that region.? That probably makes the most sense - "place where [river] water comes [down from the north]".? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 2:02 PM I certainly think it's something like the two Daves suggest.? But FYI the rain probably wouldn't normally come from the South down there.? Prob. mostly from the West and NW, but who knows? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Mon 10/12/2009 1:23 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language Thanks, Bob and Dave.? I had somewhat thought of that myself - could this be, as Bob says, (a)ni 'water' + u 'LOC' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), meaning something like 'the water comes there' ?? I suppose water could either refer to the Gulf (the Gulf comes there) or rain (rain comes there from the south)? Dave --- On Mon, 10/12/09, ROOD DAVID S wrote: From: ROOD DAVID S Subject: RE: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 10:35 AM For what it's worth, the Lakota etymology for 'south' is 'facing downstream'.? Does that help figure out the Biloxi?? If I put together the pieces 'cause' 'come' and 'water', it might give me 'makes the water come', i.e. pulls it southward. David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Mon, 12 Oct 2009, Rankin, Robert L wrote: > Ny in Siouan texts is almost invariably underlying /ni/ followed by a vowel.? So in this case it's probably (a)ni 'water', probably referring to the Gulf of Mexico.? Dave's advice on the glossaries is good; don't ever trust the English to Biloxi/Ofo sections.? Always cross-check. > > Bob > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman > Sent: Sun 10/11/2009 4:18 PM > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Subject: Re: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > > Scott, > > I think you have fallen victim to one of the pitfalls of working with the 1912 D-S Biloxi-Ofo dictionary - if you rely only on the English index (without tediously checking through all of the Biloxi entry and examining examples) you will more often than not end up with incorrect glosses and translations. > > --The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West.-- > > (h)akanaki is ((h)aka 'emerge' + naNki 'posit. sit'), the full form of which is ina (h)akanaNki 'sun emerges' (east).? I also have inahuye, which is ina 'sun' + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), that is, the sun comes (east).? That xunumi 'north' should be xanami, borrowed from Muskogean falammi 'north' (D-S u-breve usually = unstressed a). (See my paper in the Kansas Working Papers in Linguistics, 2006.)? That ide actually just means 'fall (of its own accord)' and in the Biloxi section D-S give the word itaduye (yes, under ide!), which, as best I can tell, means iN(na) 'sun' + ta(ho) + du (?) + ye (CAUS) = ~ 'sun falls' (west).? As for south, nyuhuyewade has me perplexed - take off the -wade, which just means 'toward' and you're left with nyuhuye, which appears to mean nyu(?) + hu 'come' + ye (CAUS), but I haven't been able to figure out yet what that nyu refers to.? So it seems to be 'something or other comes' but I don't know what that something coming is. > > David Kaufman > > > > --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Scott Collins wrote: > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi Language > To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU > Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:35 AM > > Biloxi, Ofo, and Tutelo-Saponi; these languages?have been?classed together before. Is it possible to recontruct words that may be missing or unknown from one of these languages as a substitute for the other? > ? > For instance in Tutelo-Saponi I can find no words for the four directions seperatly such as North, South, East, West. There is a word that represents the four directions together mon eke topi. The Biloxi have the words hakanaki for East, xunumi for North, nyuhuyewade for South, and ide for West. The Ofo only have two; ano for North and atoki for South. > ? > I hope this is correct if not please let me know. I am using the Dorsey and Swanton sources on the Biloxi and Ofo languages and the Hale and Oliverio sources on the Tutelo and Saponi languages. > ? > ? > ? > > > Scott P. Collins > > > > > > > > > ? ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Mon Oct 19 13:59:18 2009 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:59:18 -0500 Subject: Projected Increase for Endangered Languages Revitalization Funding | Cultural Survival Message-ID: http://www.culturalsurvival.org/ourpublications/news/article/projected-increase-endangered-languages-revitalization-funding I thought this might be of interest. Mark Awakuni-Swetland http://omahalanguage.unl.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Mon Oct 26 20:10:07 2009 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:10:07 -0500 Subject: Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary update Message-ID: http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/images.php Aloha All, I wanted to share with you the status of the Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary project funded by the NEH as of 26 October 2009. Undergraduate student worker Justin Hathaway has concluded scanning reel #1 of 3 reels containing the James Owen Dorsey 20,000 slip lexicon. Approximately 4,700 images are available for your viewing and research pleasure at the URL, above. This constitutes approximately one-quarter of the slip file. Of the 4,700 images, Graduate Research Assistant Jianguo Wang, and Graduate student worker Jacob Hilton have entered 4,000 lexemes. The graduate student data entry focuses on the lexeme, source (JOD's) part of speech, source (JOD's) translation, link to the scanned image, and dialect designation if any. They fill in the comment field with observations that JOD makes, or to draw our attention to something being crossed out on the image. In the problem field they note things they cannot read or decipher. Catherine Rudin and I are checking each entry. We provide a dictionary English gloss (since many of Dorsey's explanations are lengthy prose). Catherine sorts out JOD's parts of speech and gives the contemporary equivalent, i.e. his adjectives are our stative verbs. With this added information the lexeme receives a level one approval. When we have a small mass of level one lexemes they will be mounted as a preliminary dictionary on the UNL Omaha language website. The Center for Digital Research in the Humanities is already working out a template for how the dictionary will appear. We have an internal release date tentatively set for the end of fall 2009 semester, with a public release in the spring semester 2010. The remaining data on each image (Inflected Forms, Cognates, Sample Sentences, etc.) will be entered by Catherine and me. When all data from an image have been entered into the database it will receive a level two approval. Level one and level two materials will be uploaded in blocks as they become available. Further work on filling out paradigms and eliciting/field checking each lexeme with elder speakers is planned. We thank you for your patience in this complex, exciting project. Regards, Mark Awakuni-Swetland Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Anthropology and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu Phone 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Greer-J at MSSU.EDU Tue Oct 27 16:38:30 2009 From: Greer-J at MSSU.EDU (Jill Greer) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:38:30 -0500 Subject: Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary update In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Aloha, Mark, Congrats to you, Catherine and the 3 dedicated students for this great undertaking!! Wonderful stuff! Jill >>> Mark J Awakuni-Swetland 10/26/2009 3:10 PM >>> http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/images.php Aloha All, I wanted to share with you the status of the Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary project funded by the NEH as of 26 October 2009. Undergraduate student worker Justin Hathaway has concluded scanning reel #1 of 3 reels containing the James Owen Dorsey 20,000 slip lexicon. Approximately 4,700 images are available for your viewing and research pleasure at the URL, above. This constitutes approximately one-quarter of the slip file. Of the 4,700 images, Graduate Research Assistant Jianguo Wang, and Graduate student worker Jacob Hilton have entered 4,000 lexemes. The graduate student data entry focuses on the lexeme, source (JOD's) part of speech, source (JOD's) translation, link to the scanned image, and dialect designation if any. They fill in the comment field with observations that JOD makes, or to draw our attention to something being crossed out on the image. In the problem field they note things they cannot read or decipher. Catherine Rudin and I are checking each entry. We provide a dictionary English gloss (since many of Dorsey's explanations are lengthy prose). Catherine sorts out JOD's parts of speech and gives the contemporary equivalent, i.e. his adjectives are our stative verbs. With this added information the lexeme receives a level one approval. When we have a small mass of level one lexemes they will be mounted as a preliminary dictionary on the UNL Omaha language website. The Center for Digital Research in the Humanities is already working out a template for how the dictionary will appear. We have an internal release date tentatively set for the end of fall 2009 semester, with a public release in the spring semester 2010. The remaining data on each image (Inflected Forms, Cognates, Sample Sentences, etc.) will be entered by Catherine and me. When all data from an image have been entered into the database it will receive a level two approval. Level one and level two materials will be uploaded in blocks as they become available. Further work on filling out paradigms and eliciting/field checking each lexeme with elder speakers is planned. We thank you for your patience in this complex, exciting project. Regards, Mark Awakuni-Swetland Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Anthropology and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu Phone 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: