JOD's terrible 'teens'

[tom kunesh]

actually "four and twenty" comes more for the sake of english's remnant
germanic roots, vier-und-zwanzig (4 and 20), before conversion to the
latin/norman/french (20-4), who loved their scores/20s (vingts).

;>


El Jue, 4 de Febrero de 2010, 12:51, Jill Greer escribió:
> Interesting stuff -  as a simple (and probably irrelevant!) aside,
> remember we can do that in English for sake of meter, even if it's not the
> common way to say it -  I'm thinking "four and twenty blackbirds baked in
> a pie...."  Of course,  "fourscore and seven years ago" also comes to
> mind...

>
>>>> Bryan James Gordon <linguista at gmail.com> 2/4/2010 11:16 AM >>>
> I've run into this ki-edi form before too. A quick scan of Dorsey says no,
> and if it'd been in your Grandma's lexicon you'd know that, so maybe it
> was in Catherine's field tapes. Catherine?
>
> 2010/2/4 Mark J Awakuni-Swetland <mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu>
>
>
> Yesterday in a conversation with one of my UNL speakers, Grandma Delores
> Black recalled hearing her eldest grandmother counting to ten in the
> conventional way, then using the kki edi followed by a second number for
> the teens.
>
> gtheboN kki edi shoNkka => 10 kki edi 9
>
> with the kki edi variously glossed as 'also', 'and' or something similar.
>
> Grandma Delores recalled her mother using the current agthiNshoNkka form.
>
> I did not specifically ask about 12, since it has a non-agthiN pattern
> today
>
> shappe noNba
> six two
>
> I will try to elicit this set again from the other speakers with an eye
> towards what Grandma Delores described.
>
>
> Uthixide
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Rankin, Robert L" <rankin at ku.edu>
> Sent by: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
> 02/02/10 08:57 PM
> Please respond to
> siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
>
>
> To
> <siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU>
> cc
> Subject
> RE: JOD's terrible 'teens'
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sounds to me as if they didn't use '19' very often. After all, we don't
> either except in dates from the 1900s. They don't use glebaN agi shaNkka
> or something similar?
>
> I did a Siouan Conference paper back in the 80s (or maybe it was the 70s)
> on Siouan counting and tried to show that the words correlated with the
> signs for the numbers in the Plains Sign Language. This was a partial
> quinary system of finger counting beginning with the little finger of the
> left hand and ending with the little finger of the right. This explained
> why Dakotan for '9' is 'one in the palm'. I don't know how the finger
> counting system would work above 10 however. It would be interesting to
> find out. I don't recall ever seeing the PSL signs for numerals in the
> teens.
>
> The 'nine' word itself is a bit of a mystery. It's found in both Siouan
> and Algonquian as 'shankka' or the like. Ives Goddard thinks it's Siouan
> originally but I've speculated that it's Algonquian originally. Nobody
> wants to claim the little bastard.
>
> Bob
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Mark J Awakuni-Swetland
> Sent: Tue 2/2/2010 10:45 AM
> To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
> Subject: JOD's terrible 'teens'
>
> Aloha All,
>
> I am working through Dorsey's numbers in the teens.
>
> He has several definitions for the base number that are not always all
> used on a number. For example:
>
> nineteen
>
> the other nine
>
> the extra nine
>
> again nine
>
> I was wondering what y'all might make of this.
>
> Mark
>
>
> Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor of Anthropology
> and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies)
> University of Nebraska
> Lincoln, NE 68588-0368
>
> http://omahalanguage.unl.edu
> http://omahaponca.unl.edu
> Phone 402-472-3455
> FAX: 402-472-9642
>
>
>
>
>