From David.Rood at Colorado.EDU Wed Mar 3 21:47:04 2010 From: David.Rood at Colorado.EDU (ROOD DAVID S) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 14:47:04 -0700 Subject: ELAN language archiving technology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark, I have been using ELAN since it was first introduced in a very experimental form in the DOBES program in 2000. It is being steadily improved. I have had no complaints since they fixed some of the really horrid bugs from the early versions. I am using it only for annotating Wichita videos, though I have also put one Lakota audio text into it in a preliminary way. We're using it for the Lakota videos in my current project, too. You can set up an unlimited number of tiers for different kinds of information about the data. In the Wichita, I use tiers for individual speakers, Wichita transcription, morphological analysis, glosses, grammar coding, and comments (some tapes require different things, depending on what's on them). In the Lakota we're using one tier for an "underlying" transcripton and another for phonetic (fast speech) deviations. I don't know what other similar programs are out there, but for aligning video, audio, and transcription, I think ELAN is great. For precise phonetic analysis, however, I go elsewhere (Praat, Sound Forge). I haven't used this as a database, i.e. I don't know much about the search functions, but I did get a very nice printout of a Lakota text formatted exactly the way I wanted to display it for classroom use. Keep in mind that I am probably the most computer illiterate Siouanist on the list -- if I can figure it out, I think anyone else can, too. I haven't seen any more "labor intensive" phenomenon than would be needed for any other program. If you don't have anything in writing, you have to write it somewhere at least once, and putting it into ELAN is no worse than anything else. There is one counter-intuitive feature that bothers me. To save whatever you have just typed, you need to hit "control enter" -- otherwise your typing disappears. A few experiences with that problem are enough to inspire learning to do it right, however. Best, David David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Mark J Awakuni-Swetland wrote: > http://www.lat-mpi.eu/tools/elan/ > > Aloha all, > > Are any of y'all familiar with ELAN, a language archiving program? > > The UNL Center for Digital Research in the Humanities (CDRH) folks are > suggesting I look at it for possible applications to the Omaha database > work in progress. > > My CDRH guy give me an initial demo today.. > > The program requires an operator to insert transcription directly linked > to audio video files. > > It is XML based, so supposedly is UNICODE compliant. > > It looks like the straight text transcription can have a second line with > parts of speech, and a third line that renders everything in IPA. > > I just sent over a short wav file with Omaha elicitation to see how we can > deal with an Omaha orthography. > > It is possible to search on text words (presumably Omaha, too, if that > works). > > The visual ability with the wav files does make me think that prosody > studies could be done. > > Dumping the wav files into Audacity or other software could give you pitch > contours and such, like what Rory Larson has been playing with recently. > > Bottom line, It looks really labor intensive up front... but might have > some uses down the road > > Ideas? > > Thanks > Mark > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Anthropology > and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) > University of Nebraska > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Wed Mar 3 21:28:34 2010 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:28:34 -0600 Subject: ELAN language archiving technology Message-ID: http://www.lat-mpi.eu/tools/elan/ Aloha all, Are any of y'all familiar with ELAN, a language archiving program? The UNL Center for Digital Research in the Humanities (CDRH) folks are suggesting I look at it for possible applications to the Omaha database work in progress. My CDRH guy give me an initial demo today.. The program requires an operator to insert transcription directly linked to audio video files. It is XML based, so supposedly is UNICODE compliant. It looks like the straight text transcription can have a second line with parts of speech, and a third line that renders everything in IPA. I just sent over a short wav file with Omaha elicitation to see how we can deal with an Omaha orthography. It is possible to search on text words (presumably Omaha, too, if that works). The visual ability with the wav files does make me think that prosody studies could be done. Dumping the wav files into Audacity or other software could give you pitch contours and such, like what Rory Larson has been playing with recently. Bottom line, It looks really labor intensive up front... but might have some uses down the road Ideas? Thanks Mark Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Anthropology and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu http://omahaponca.unl.edu Phone 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wipamankere at hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 09:19:43 2010 From: wipamankere at hotmail.com (Iren Hartmann) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 03:19:43 -0600 Subject: ELAN language archiving technology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark, if you decide to use ELAN, you might also want to look at this nice little free tool: http://sweet.artsrn.ualberta.ca/cdcox/cuped/ With CuPED you can create Webpages of your ELAN and media files. It's very easy to use and the presentation format might be useful for your project. Best, Iren Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:28:34 -0600 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: ELAN language archiving technology http://www.lat-mpi.eu/tools/elan/ Aloha all, Are any of y'all familiar with ELAN, a language archiving program? The UNL Center for Digital Research in the Humanities (CDRH) folks are suggesting I look at it for possible applications to the Omaha database work in progress. My CDRH guy give me an initial demo today.. The program requires an operator to insert transcription directly linked to audio video files. It is XML based, so supposedly is UNICODE compliant. It looks like the straight text transcription can have a second line with parts of speech, and a third line that renders everything in IPA. I just sent over a short wav file with Omaha elicitation to see how we can deal with an Omaha orthography. It is possible to search on text words (presumably Omaha, too, if that works). The visual ability with the wav files does make me think that prosody studies could be done. Dumping the wav files into Audacity or other software could give you pitch contours and such, like what Rory Larson has been playing with recently. Bottom line, It looks really labor intensive up front... but might have some uses down the road Ideas? Thanks Mark Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Anthropology and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu http://omahaponca.unl.edu Phone 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Mon Mar 8 12:38:40 2010 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 06:38:40 -0600 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carudin1 at wsc.edu Mon Mar 15 19:59:24 2010 From: carudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:59:24 -0500 Subject: Dakota cognate?? Message-ID: Hi, guys -- I'm just entering some information from Dorsey slips for the Omaha and Ponca dictionary and ran across an odd-looking cognate. Does it make sense for optaye to be Dakota cognate for O-P cuka? Catherine here's a link to the slip image http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/ck/opd.01.088.08c.jpg From rankin at ku.edu Mon Mar 15 20:35:04 2010 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:35:04 -0500 Subject: Dakota cognate?? Message-ID: No way. But I've discovered that what Dorsey has at the bottom of many of his slips are not cognates in our technical sense of the word. They should probably be called something like "equivalents". For the other 3 or 4 Dhegiha languages he almost always gives real cognates, and they're usually nearly identical. Once he gets outside Dhegiha, all bets are off. He gives a cognate if one was obvious to him, but otherwise he may just give some term with a similar meaning. Is the O-P form "cuka" that you give here Dorsey's transcription? In other words, is this [s^uka] or is it [c^uka], with a "ch" sound? If it's "ch" then I'm wondering what a cognate in the other languages might look like. "Ch" generally doesn't occur before /u/, so I'm just curious. Does he give Osage, Kansa or Quapaw cognates for it? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Catherine Rudin Sent: Mon 3/15/2010 2:59 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Dakota cognate?? Hi, guys -- I'm just entering some information from Dorsey slips for the Omaha and Ponca dictionary and ran across an odd-looking cognate. Does it make sense for optaye to be Dakota cognate for O-P cuka? Catherine here's a link to the slip image http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/ck/opd.01.088.08c.jpg From jmcbride at kawnation.com Mon Mar 15 21:02:14 2010 From: jmcbride at kawnation.com (Justin McBride) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:02:14 -0500 Subject: Dakota cognate?? Message-ID: I can't speak for Dakotan, Catherine, but to answer Bob's question, JOD does have a few KS entries that may be either cognate or at least somewhat related. In his personal names slips, he lists the female name Cú-ka mí [s^ókka miN] and the male name Cu-ká-mi [s^okkámiN], but offers only an unhelpful translation of the former, 'Cu-ka female.' In his dictionary slip file, there's also cú-ga [s^óga], which he defines as 'thick; dense.' I can't say for sure why KS would voice a stop that OP doesn't, though, so maybe that last one's not related after all, but the semantics seem to match up. -jtm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: RE: Dakota cognate?? No way. But I've discovered that what Dorsey has at the bottom of many of his slips are not cognates in our technical sense of the word. They should probably be called something like "equivalents". For the other 3 or 4 Dhegiha languages he almost always gives real cognates, and they're usually nearly identical. Once he gets outside Dhegiha, all bets are off. He gives a cognate if one was obvious to him, but otherwise he may just give some term with a similar meaning. Is the O-P form "cuka" that you give here Dorsey's transcription? In other words, is this [s^uka] or is it [c^uka], with a "ch" sound? If it's "ch" then I'm wondering what a cognate in the other languages might look like. "Ch" generally doesn't occur before /u/, so I'm just curious. Does he give Osage, Kansa or Quapaw cognates for it? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Catherine Rudin Sent: Mon 3/15/2010 2:59 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Dakota cognate?? Hi, guys -- I'm just entering some information from Dorsey slips for the Omaha and Ponca dictionary and ran across an odd-looking cognate. Does it make sense for optaye to be Dakota cognate for O-P cuka? Catherine here's a link to the slip image http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/ck/opd.01.088.08c.jpg From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu Mon Mar 15 21:58:38 2010 From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:58:38 -0500 Subject: Dakota cognate?? In-Reply-To: <98A3710D80D44085BAEAFAC11A05A720@LANGDIRECTOR> Message-ID: Bob - Yes, it's s^ukka. You should be able to see the slip via the link Catherine included. I just looked up optaye in Riggs. It's the Dakota word for a flock of birds, a herd of animals, or a company of people. Dorsey has included it here because it matches the Omaha word in meaning, not because it is cognate. Justin - Omaha has the word s^uga meaning 'thick' too. That would be cognate to your s^óga. Can we make any sense out of those names translating s^ókka as 'flock'/'herd'/'company'? Rory "Justin McBride" Sent by: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU 03/15/2010 04:05 PM Please respond to siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU To cc Subject Re: Dakota cognate?? I can't speak for Dakotan, Catherine, but to answer Bob's question, JOD does have a few KS entries that may be either cognate or at least somewhat related. In his personal names slips, he lists the female name Cú-ka mí [s^ókka miN] and the male name Cu-ká-mi [s^okkámiN], but offers only an unhelpful translation of the former, 'Cu-ka female.' In his dictionary slip file, there's also cú-ga [s^óga], which he defines as 'thick; dense.' I can't say for sure why KS would voice a stop that OP doesn't, though, so maybe that last one's not related after all, but the semantics seem to match up. -jtm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: RE: Dakota cognate?? No way. But I've discovered that what Dorsey has at the bottom of many of his slips are not cognates in our technical sense of the word. They should probably be called something like "equivalents". For the other 3 or 4 Dhegiha languages he almost always gives real cognates, and they're usually nearly identical. Once he gets outside Dhegiha, all bets are off. He gives a cognate if one was obvious to him, but otherwise he may just give some term with a similar meaning. Is the O-P form "cuka" that you give here Dorsey's transcription? In other words, is this [s^uka] or is it [c^uka], with a "ch" sound? If it's "ch" then I'm wondering what a cognate in the other languages might look like. "Ch" generally doesn't occur before /u/, so I'm just curious. Does he give Osage, Kansa or Quapaw cognates for it? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Catherine Rudin Sent: Mon 3/15/2010 2:59 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Dakota cognate?? Hi, guys -- I'm just entering some information from Dorsey slips for the Omaha and Ponca dictionary and ran across an odd-looking cognate. Does it make sense for optaye to be Dakota cognate for O-P cuka? Catherine here's a link to the slip image http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/ck/opd.01.088.08c.jpg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carudin1 at wsc.edu Mon Mar 15 22:46:54 2010 From: carudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:46:54 -0500 Subject: Dakota cognate?? Message-ID: Thanks to all who answered. Clearly it's "equivalent" but not "cognate" in the normal sense, as Bob said... I guess I've been seeing mostly cognates that are actually cognate and/or not paying much attention. :-) C. >>> Rory M Larson 03/15/10 5:02 PM >>> Bob - Yes, it's s^ukka. You should be able to see the slip via the link Catherine included. I just looked up optaye in Riggs. It's the Dakota word for a flock of birds, a herd of animals, or a company of people. Dorsey has included it here because it matches the Omaha word in meaning, not because it is cognate. Justin - Omaha has the word s^uga meaning 'thick' too. That would be cognate to your s^óga. Can we make any sense out of those names translating s^ókka as 'flock'/'herd'/'company'? Rory "Justin McBride" Sent by: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU 03/15/2010 04:05 PM Please respond to siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU To cc Subject Re: Dakota cognate?? I can't speak for Dakotan, Catherine, but to answer Bob's question, JOD does have a few KS entries that may be either cognate or at least somewhat related. In his personal names slips, he lists the female name Cú-ka mí [s^ókka miN] and the male name Cu-ká-mi [s^okkámiN], but offers only an unhelpful translation of the former, 'Cu-ka female.' In his dictionary slip file, there's also cú-ga [s^óga], which he defines as 'thick; dense.' I can't say for sure why KS would voice a stop that OP doesn't, though, so maybe that last one's not related after all, but the semantics seem to match up. -jtm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: RE: Dakota cognate?? No way. But I've discovered that what Dorsey has at the bottom of many of his slips are not cognates in our technical sense of the word. They should probably be called something like "equivalents". For the other 3 or 4 Dhegiha languages he almost always gives real cognates, and they're usually nearly identical. Once he gets outside Dhegiha, all bets are off. He gives a cognate if one was obvious to him, but otherwise he may just give some term with a similar meaning. Is the O-P form "cuka" that you give here Dorsey's transcription? In other words, is this [s^uka] or is it [c^uka], with a "ch" sound? If it's "ch" then I'm wondering what a cognate in the other languages might look like. "Ch" generally doesn't occur before /u/, so I'm just curious. Does he give Osage, Kansa or Quapaw cognates for it? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Catherine Rudin Sent: Mon 3/15/2010 2:59 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Dakota cognate?? Hi, guys -- I'm just entering some information from Dorsey slips for the Omaha and Ponca dictionary and ran across an odd-looking cognate. Does it make sense for optaye to be Dakota cognate for O-P cuka? Catherine here's a link to the slip image http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/ck/opd.01.088.08c.jpg From kdshea at aol.com Mon Mar 22 23:01:12 2010 From: kdshea at aol.com (Kathleen Shea) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:01:12 -0600 Subject: sad news Message-ID: I'm am sorry to report that Siouan list member Tom Leonard passed away on Saturday, March 22. He was a longtime member of the Native American Church (Ponca Chapter) and an avid student of the Ponca and Osage languages. He was also a longtime friend, and I've always known him to be helpful and generous with his time, knowledge, and sharing materials. His adopted Ponca family will honor his wish to be buried next to his adopted mother, Josetta Rush, in the Ponca Indian Cemetery. The funeral will be Tuesday, March 23, at the Ponca Indian Baptist Church. A full obituary can be read in today's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com. Kathy Shea -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgoodtracks at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 01:15:53 2010 From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:15:53 -0500 Subject: sad news In-Reply-To: <001801caca13$927dfc80$4001a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: Kathy: I am uncertain if I knew him personally, however his name is quite familiar. Whatever did he pass on from as I see he was only 51yoa. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathleen Shea To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:01 PM Subject: sad news I'm am sorry to report that Siouan list member Tom Leonard passed away on Saturday, March 22. He was a longtime member of the Native American Church (Ponca Chapter) and an avid student of the Ponca and Osage languages. He was also a longtime friend, and I've always known him to be helpful and generous with his time, knowledge, and sharing materials. His adopted Ponca family will honor his wish to be buried next to his adopted mother, Josetta Rush, in the Ponca Indian Cemetery. The funeral will be Tuesday, March 23, at the Ponca Indian Baptist Church. A full obituary can be read in today's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com. Kathy Shea -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Tue Mar 23 13:22:23 2010 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:22:23 -0500 Subject: sad news In-Reply-To: <001801caca13$927dfc80$4001a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: Aho, I never had the opportunity to meet Tom in person but he was always generous in sharing his thoughts and resources with me through the years. I did not know his background and relationships with the Ponca. Reading his obituary gave me pause as aspects of it seem to mirror my own experiences as an adopt kid. Tom will be sorely missed. Uthixide -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kdshea at aol.com Tue Mar 23 17:36:44 2010 From: kdshea at aol.com (Kathleen Shea) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:36:44 -0600 Subject: sad news Message-ID: Jimm, I heard through his adopted sister April (Aunt Josetta's daughter) that he had colon cancer, which, unfortunately was not caught early. I hadn't been in touch with Tom for some time but kept up on news about him through Sister April. Some of the good memories I have of Tom exemplify his thoughtfulness. The first year or so that I was around the Poncas in Oklahoma (1994 or 1995), I was invited to attend the Hethushka dance. I didn't know at the time that my being invited meant that I would be given something. I heard my name called out by the M. C. (Abe Conklin at the time), and I was given a blanket! Tom had provided the blanket for his friend Jimmy Duncan, who was joining the Hethushka Society, to give away. They had decided to give it to me to encourage me in my work of studying the Ponca language. I remember thinking that it really does pay to be a linguist! Another time, I was visiting Tom and his family at their home in Tulsa, and, as is the Ponca custom when someone visits for the first time, he gave me a gift--a copy of the set of sixteen tapes that had been produced during the project conducted by anthropologist William Leap in the 1970's and Uncle Parrish William's sister Martha Grass, among others. These tapes, with the accompanying booklet The Ponca World (which I photocopied from Bob Rankin's copy), are no longer available, and my copy was a copy Tom had had professionally made of his set. Tom also filled me in on aspects of Ponca culture and society. He encouraged me to put on a dinner for the Ponca elders, because he thought that that would be an appropriate gesture, and much later I followed his advice by sponsoring a dinner in conjunction with the Ponca Language Arts Council, Ponca Tribe of Oklahoma, where, at Uncle Parrish's suggestion, we invited Barbara Warner (a Ponca and Oklahoma Commisioner of Indian Affairs) to be the guest speaker. The dinner was a success, I think, as evidenced by the fact that several elders stood up and talked, a couple of them even addressing the group at length in Ponca. Sadly, most of those elders are now thiNge...thiNgai (are gone). Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimm GoodTracks To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 7:15 PM Subject: Re: sad news Kathy: I am uncertain if I knew him personally, however his name is quite familiar. Whatever did he pass on from as I see he was only 51yoa. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathleen Shea To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:01 PM Subject: sad news I'm am sorry to report that Siouan list member Tom Leonard passed away on Saturday, March 22. He was a longtime member of the Native American Church (Ponca Chapter) and an avid student of the Ponca and Osage languages. He was also a longtime friend, and I've always known him to be helpful and generous with his time, knowledge, and sharing materials. His adopted Ponca family will honor his wish to be buried next to his adopted mother, Josetta Rush, in the Ponca Indian Cemetery. The funeral will be Tuesday, March 23, at the Ponca Indian Baptist Church. A full obituary can be read in today's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com. Kathy Shea -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgoodtracks at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 18:28:27 2010 From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:28:27 -0500 Subject: sad news In-Reply-To: <003a01cacaaf$69080020$4001a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: Thanks, Kathy for the information, and moments of your relations and opportunities of interaction. I know I must have seen Tom, but there apparently were no event for becoming a mutual acquaintance. jimm PS: I am sure you have heard that Tony Arkeketa also passed on this week and services are Thursday, whether it is in Red Rock or White Eagle. He always retained his connections to his Otoe relatives, and was first married to TeeTee Moore, daughter of Otoe Elder Sidney and Pearl Moore (Pearl was Pawnee). Tony however was raised on his Ponca side (mother's side) and spoke Ponca and was well versed in the songs of the Ponca (Hethushka, NAC, etc.). He was plagued by diabetes, and had some toes amputated. He shared with me that he was despondent that Oklahoma IHS would not provide any genuine treatment (a common community complaint) for his condition, so on his own, he procured treatment in that city above Macey & Winnebago, NE, I believe it is called Sioux City, NE. It definitely was in NE, I'm certain. He continued his interest in Otoe Iroshka and MC'd each December in Red Rock, along with Frank Carson. I attended a Sweat Purification Lodge in Red Rock last year in which he lead the prayer and the singing, backed by one of his daughters. But during the half way break, he was obliged to sit outside, being exhausted. He was working on Ponca language to provide learning materials for his grandchildren, but had until lately frequently consulted with me on Otoe-Missouria. Several years ago, we both were requested to share the directorship of an Ioway Language program (Perkins, OK) got into the administration of it, and it got derailed and convoluted. It was discouraging. With his passing, and those in January and February, I am unable to entertain anything hopeful for a cultural / language resurgence among the three communities. I believe that my work is simply to provide documentation of the language, however, I will continue to develop materials for my grandson for the foreseeable future. Thanks again for the information. Perhaps, if I decide to make the seven hour trip to Oklahoma, I'll see you at Tony's service. The Ponca Hethushka is scheduled for this coming weekend. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathleen Shea To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:36 PM Subject: Re: sad news Jimm, I heard through his adopted sister April (Aunt Josetta's daughter) that he had colon cancer, which, unfortunately was not caught early. I hadn't been in touch with Tom for some time but kept up on news about him through Sister April. Some of the good memories I have of Tom exemplify his thoughtfulness. The first year or so that I was around the Poncas in Oklahoma (1994 or 1995), I was invited to attend the Hethushka dance. I didn't know at the time that my being invited meant that I would be given something. I heard my name called out by the M. C. (Abe Conklin at the time), and I was given a blanket! Tom had provided the blanket for his friend Jimmy Duncan, who was joining the Hethushka Society, to give away. They had decided to give it to me to encourage me in my work of studying the Ponca language. I remember thinking that it really does pay to be a linguist! Another time, I was visiting Tom and his family at their home in Tulsa, and, as is the Ponca custom when someone visits for the first time, he gave me a gift--a copy of the set of sixteen tapes that had been produced during the project conducted by anthropologist William Leap in the 1970's and Uncle Parrish William's sister Martha Grass, among others. These tapes, with the accompanying booklet The Ponca World (which I photocopied from Bob Rankin's copy), are no longer available, and my copy was a copy Tom had had professionally made of his set. Tom also filled me in on aspects of Ponca culture and society. He encouraged me to put on a dinner for the Ponca elders, because he thought that that would be an appropriate gesture, and much later I followed his advice by sponsoring a dinner in conjunction with the Ponca Language Arts Council, Ponca Tribe of Oklahoma, where, at Uncle Parrish's suggestion, we invited Barbara Warner (a Ponca and Oklahoma Commisioner of Indian Affairs) to be the guest speaker. The dinner was a success, I think, as evidenced by the fact that several elders stood up and talked, a couple of them even addressing the group at length in Ponca. Sadly, most of those elders are now thiNge...thiNgai (are gone). Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimm GoodTracks To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 7:15 PM Subject: Re: sad news Kathy: I am uncertain if I knew him personally, however his name is quite familiar. Whatever did he pass on from as I see he was only 51yoa. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathleen Shea To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:01 PM Subject: sad news I'm am sorry to report that Siouan list member Tom Leonard passed away on Saturday, March 22. He was a longtime member of the Native American Church (Ponca Chapter) and an avid student of the Ponca and Osage languages. He was also a longtime friend, and I've always known him to be helpful and generous with his time, knowledge, and sharing materials. His adopted Ponca family will honor his wish to be buried next to his adopted mother, Josetta Rush, in the Ponca Indian Cemetery. The funeral will be Tuesday, March 23, at the Ponca Indian Baptist Church. A full obituary can be read in today's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com. Kathy Shea -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linguista at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 06:08:50 2010 From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan James Gordon) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 23:08:50 -0700 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Liz Kennedy here at UA is involved with a grant from Georgia to develop transcription/translation protocols for a program down in South America. Working with native speakers trained in writing and teaching their language and with linguists fluent in the language, they allotted 20 hours to the transcript/translation of each individual story. This seemed generous to me, but I know sometimes variation and garbled recordings can slow you down. Any word yet on the dates of the conference this year? - Bryan 2010/3/8 Mark J Awakuni-Swetland > Aloha all, > I need some guidance! > > I am pulling together a grant proposal to begin field checking the 20K > JODorsey slip lexicon that is emerging from my NEH Omaha and Ponca Digital > Dictionay project. > > Catherine Rudin and I will work with Omaha speakers to confirm lexemes, > fill in inflected forms, elicit contemporary-context sample sentences, and > other cultural information. > > We will concentrate on digitally audio recording the sessions. > > Video remains problematic for my speakers. > > As we all know, a one hour session will have many false starts and other > chit chat. > > *1) What are your thoughts about editing out that material prior to > transcription?* > > Rory Larson and I worked with our UNL speakers last year to test out the > field checking process. We captured some very rich materials. However, the > majority of clock time was in English, less in Omaha. > > My thoughts are to hire one or more GTAs to do the first pass of > transcription for the English while flagging the Omaha for me to handle. > > I am investigating the ELAN software program and appreciate David Rood and > Iren Hartmann's input on that. > > I expect we would do a simple 'first pass' of straight transcription at > this point. > > *2) What have been your experiences with estimates of time required to do > a 'simple' transcription of English?* > ** > *3) What about the Native language transcription time?* > ** > Many thanks for considering this. > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Anthropology > and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) > University of Nebraska > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 25 14:45:47 2010 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 07:45:47 -0700 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Bryan, John B. sent a request for papers awhile back that has the conference info.  I've attached it below: CALL FOR PAPERS The 30th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference in conjunction with The Workshop on Comparative Siouan Syntax June 2-5, 2010 Hosted by The Linguistic Department at Northeastern Illinois University, at the Northeastern Illinois University Main Campus We invite papers that focus on any aspect of Siouan and Caddoan languages and linguistics: Descriptive or Theoretical Linguistics Historical Linguistics Language Maintenance and Preservation Language Pedagogical Papers:     Abstracts are due May 14th by 4:00 PM.  Individuals who wish to present a paper should e-mail a paper title, an abstract (no longer than 500 words), the author¹s name and any affiliation to or mail a hard copy with the  above information to:         Dr. John P. Boyle         Department of Linguistics         5500 North St. Louis Ave.         Chicago, IL. 60625 Presentations:      Notification of acceptance will be sent via e-mail by May 17, 2010. Presenters will be allotted a maximum of 30 minutes but shorter papers and informal and exploratory works are welcome.  If presenters would like a double time slot, please contact Dr. Boyle. Students and Native Peoples are encouraged to participate.  If any special AV equipment is needed please contact Dr. Boyle in advance. Registration:     Conference registration is free and the public is welcome.  Please contact us if you plan to attend.  A preliminary program and additional information will be sent out by May 21st 2010. Accommodations:     A block of rooms will be reserved at:          The Holiday Inn Chicago, North Shore         5300 Touhy Ave.         Skokie, IL         847-679-8900 --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Bryan James Gordon wrote: From: Bryan James Gordon Subject: Re: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 1:08 AM Liz Kennedy here at UA is involved with a grant from Georgia to develop transcription/translation protocols for a program down in South America. Working with native speakers trained in writing and teaching their language and with linguists fluent in the language, they allotted 20 hours to the transcript/translation of each individual story. This seemed generous to me, but I know sometimes variation and garbled recordings can slow you down. Any word yet on the dates of the conference this year? - Bryan 2010/3/8 Mark J Awakuni-Swetland Aloha all, I need some guidance! I am pulling together a grant proposal to begin field checking the 20K JODorsey slip lexicon that is emerging from my NEH Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionay project.  Catherine Rudin and I will work with Omaha speakers to confirm lexemes, fill in inflected forms, elicit contemporary-context sample sentences, and other cultural information. We will concentrate on digitally audio recording the sessions.  Video remains problematic for my speakers. As we all know, a one hour session will have many false starts and other chit chat. 1) What are your thoughts about editing out that material prior to transcription?  Rory Larson and I worked with our UNL speakers last year to test out the field checking process. We captured some very rich materials. However, the majority of clock time was in English, less in Omaha.  My thoughts are to hire one or more GTAs to do the first pass of transcription for the English while flagging the Omaha for me to handle. I am investigating the ELAN software program and appreciate David Rood and Iren Hartmann's input on that.  I expect we would do a simple 'first pass' of straight transcription at this point. 2) What have been your experiences with estimates of time required to do a 'simple' transcription of English?  3) What about the Native language transcription time? Many thanks for considering this. Mark  Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Anthropology and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu http://omahaponca.unl.edu Phone 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linguista at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 19:39:22 2010 From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan James Gordon) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 12:39:22 -0700 Subject: sad news In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is very sad news, and a surprise to me, too, as the last time I saw Tom he seemed in high spirits and good health. But that was two years ago now. Tom was very kind to me at times when I needed it, and shared some of the best advice and knowledge. He has always kept up with this list, and even though he didn't post often, when he has, it's always been tremendously valuable. I'll miss his friendly person and his knowledge and advice. - Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Thu Mar 25 20:06:09 2010 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:06:09 -0500 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry Message-ID: The variables here are many and all are important. First, I think it is likely that few to none of the current Omaha speakers can be considered "native" in the sense in which it's used in South America. To me "native" implies native language *dominant*. I feel that most of the Omaha speakers are now English-dominant, even if they remember Omaha pretty well. This will make for some interference from English. Second, my students in intro linguistics always had problems transcribing English. Part of the problem was the newness of phonetic transcription and interference from English spelling, but part of it was the fluid nature of colloquial English speech registers. No matter how fluent the speaker, transcription takes lots of practice unless the person is a phonetic prodigy. Third, as for linguists, it will depend on how well you really know the language. It took me quite awhile to become confident of my ability to distinguish the 4 manners of stops, especially the difference between CC and Ch. It seems so simple and obvious now, but then -- not so much. Long and short vowels were even worse. I missed them pretty much entirely for over a decade. Finally I figured out that the accented ones were pretty easy; they had falling pitch in discourse. I thought I had it figured out until I realized that the unaccented ones didn't usually have the pitch contour. Nasal vs. oral vowels following nasal consonants remains a problem in many environments. Transcribing Kaw stories from recordings I made myself, I still have trouble. Allowing 20 hours per story doesn't seem unreasonable to me at all. If it takes less time after awhile, so much the better. Fourth, words in isolation can sometimes be even worse. The problems of list intonation and the influence of near-homonyms recently discussed arise. Since I went through the Dorsey Kaw dictionary in alphabetical order, inflection of one verb often contaminated discussion of the next verb in line. I made all the common mistakes, believe me. Someday some young linguist looking for a dissertation topic will get hold of my elicitation CDs and write a treatise on how NOT to do field work. And this was after two years of dialect field work in Romania and a good methodology course (and a pretty fair ear if I do say so myself). As for the English "asides" on the tapes, my field methods instructor, Larry Thompson the Salishanist, encouraged us to write down all the comments offered by the speaker(s). They often contain insights the importance of which only emerges much later, and if you didn't write them down, they're gone. You'll have to use your own judgment, but I'd say that any comment that has to do with the language is worth noting. Bob -----Original Message----- > Aloha all, > I need some guidance! > > I am pulling together a grant proposal to begin field checking the 20K > JODorsey slip lexicon that is emerging from my NEH Omaha and Ponca Digital > Dictionay project. > > Catherine Rudin and I will work with Omaha speakers to confirm lexemes, > fill in inflected forms, elicit contemporary-context sample sentences, and > other cultural information. > > We will concentrate on digitally audio recording the sessions. > > Video remains problematic for my speakers. > > As we all know, a one hour session will have many false starts and other > chit chat. > > *1) What are your thoughts about editing out that material prior to > transcription?* > > Rory Larson and I worked with our UNL speakers last year to test out the > field checking process. We captured some very rich materials. However, the > majority of clock time was in English, less in Omaha. > > My thoughts are to hire one or more GTAs to do the first pass of > transcription for the English while flagging the Omaha for me to handle. > > I am investigating the ELAN software program and appreciate David Rood and > Iren Hartmann's input on that. > > I expect we would do a simple 'first pass' of straight transcription at > this point. > > *2) What have been your experiences with estimates of time required to do > a 'simple' transcription of English?* > ** > *3) What about the Native language transcription time?* > ** > Many thanks for considering this. > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Anthropology > and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) > University of Nebraska > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 > From rankin at ku.edu Thu Mar 25 20:21:07 2010 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:21:07 -0500 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry Message-ID: > Fourth, words in isolation can sometimes be even worse. The problems of list intonation and the influence of near-homonyms recently discussed arise. Since I went through the Dorsey Kaw dictionary in alphabetical order, inflection of one verb often contaminated discussion of the next verb in line. Let me give an example of what I mean here. In Kansa there are two different conjugations that begin with /ba-/ followed by the (often identical) verb root. These correspond to Omaha verbs in /ba-/ 'by pushing' and /maa-/ 'by cutting with a blade'. Their conjugation is completely different. The 1st and 2nd person agent prefixes are inserted in different places and have totally different forms (allomorphs). In Kaw one conjugation is 1sg ba-a-, 2sg ba-ya. The other conjugation is 1sg p-pa-, 2sg s^-pa-. The only difference in the 3rd person forms is accent and maybe vowel length. Unfortunately these near homophones come right before/after one another in the dictionary. I didn't have the sense to randomize them in my elicitation, and I managed to confuse poor Mrs. Rowe time after time as to which verb in the pairs we were discussing. Thus, a lot of erronious conjugated forms were recorded. Luckily most of these can be sorted out in retrospect, but a little more attention to detail on my part could have prevented the problems. Bob From carudin1 at wsc.edu Thu Mar 25 23:52:17 2010 From: carudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:52:17 -0500 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry Message-ID: Thanks a lot for all your insights, Bob. I for one can relate all too well to making every fieldwork error in the book. :-) All your points are valid -- especially the basic fact that transcription is hard (even for very fluent speakers, and especially for those who aren't). And I agree that it's important to transcribe speakers' metalinguistic commentary. I didn't always do it in the past, thinking it would be easy enough to listen back to the tapes for this. And have I gotten around to every listening??? Guess how often. Catherine >>> "Rankin, Robert L" 03/25/10 3:09 PM >>> From bmaxwell at mt.net Fri Mar 26 06:37:20 2010 From: bmaxwell at mt.net (Billy Maxwell) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:37:20 -0600 Subject: Omaha Conference 22APR10 Message-ID: Sorry to not reply quicker Vida. I have had so many emails these past few months, it is easy to miss them. Registration form is at: mcppp.org Here is our current line up as of 26MAR10: Ray Wood: "Maximillian Matters!" Matt Reed: "1865 Yankton Bison Hide Tipi" Billy Maxwell: "How was that skinned?" Kathy Brewer "Pelt Bags" Jim Johnston "An Unusual Bustle" Steve Tamayo: "From a Brule Point of View on Objects." Beth DeNike "Prairie Textiles" Billy Maxwell: "Hidatsa objects in the Knife River Collection" 10 am Joslyn Museum of Art visit Fred Schnieder "Hidatsa Ethnobotany from the Notes of Gilbert Wilson." Matt Reed "A Wichita Site Pre- & Post-Contact" Richard Gould "Pawnee Village Site" One possible drop out is Richard Gould. There is a chance he will talk during our Saturday evening meal. The change on the registration form schedule is that we will be going to the Joslyn at 10 am on Saturday. Billy Please email me if you are planning to come. With limited room we would not wish for anyone to make a long trip to an over packed event. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jp-boyle at neiu.edu Fri Mar 26 21:30:08 2010 From: jp-boyle at neiu.edu (Northeastern university) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:30:08 -0500 Subject: Lowie Mandan Texts Message-ID: Hi All, I was reading Richard Carter's 1991. paper "Old Man Coyote and the Wild Potato: A Mandan trickster tale" and he mentioned that Robert Lowie published "three very short texts" in 1913. Does anyone know where these were published or where they are located? Thanks, John John P. Boyle Assistant Professor Department of Linguistics NEIU From granta at edgehill.ac.uk Fri Mar 26 21:32:34 2010 From: granta at edgehill.ac.uk (Anthony Grant) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:32:34 +0000 Subject: Lowie Mandan Texts Message-ID: Maybe somewhere like the Journal of American Folklore? Didn't Will and Spinden's work appear round that time? I seem to recall they published in the Peabody Museum of Natural History or something like that. I know some of Lowie's notebooks are thought to be lost, and that his Washo texts were published in Anthropological Linguistics. Anthony >>> Northeastern university 03/26/10 9:28 PM >>> Hi All, I was reading Richard Carter's 1991. paper "Old Man Coyote and the Wild Potato: A Mandan trickster tale" and he mentioned that Robert Lowie published "three very short texts" in 1913. Does anyone know where these were published or where they are located? Thanks, John John P. Boyle Assistant Professor Department of Linguistics NEIU Edge Hill University 1885 - 2010 Shaping Futures for 125 Years Join the celebrations - http://www.edgehill.ac.uk/125 Top 10 UK University - http://www.edgehill.ac.uk/about/future/uktopten ----------------------------------------------------- This email and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Edge Hill University or associated companies. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender as soon as possible and delete it and all copies of it. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. The message content of in-coming emails is automatically scanned to identify Spam and viruses otherwise Edge Hill University do not actively monitor content. However, sometimes it will be necessary for Edge Hill University to access business communications during staff absence. Edge Hill University has taken steps to ensure that this email and any attachments are virus free. However, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Edge Hill University for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use. ----------------------------------------------------- From boris at terracom.net Fri Mar 26 22:01:26 2010 From: boris at terracom.net (Alan Knutson) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:01:26 -0500 Subject: Lowie Mandan Texts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is from Wikipedia: Mandan Lowie, Robert H. (1913). Societies of the Hidatsa and Mandan Indians. In R. H. Lowie, /Societies of the Crow, Hidatsa, and Mandan Indians/ (pp. 219-358). Anthropological papers of the American Museum Of Natural History (Vol. 11, Part 3). New York: The Trustees. (Texts are on pp. 355-358). On 3/26/2010 4:30 PM, Northeastern university wrote: > Hi All, > > I was reading Richard Carter's 1991. paper "Old Man Coyote and the Wild > Potato: A Mandan trickster tale" and he mentioned that Robert Lowie > published "three very short texts" in 1913. Does anyone know where these > were published or where they are located? > > Thanks, > > John > > John P. Boyle > Assistant Professor > Department of Linguistics > NEIU > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jp-boyle at neiu.edu Fri Mar 26 22:43:43 2010 From: jp-boyle at neiu.edu (Northeastern university) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:43:43 -0500 Subject: Lowie Mandan Texts In-Reply-To: <4BAD2EB6.7000608@terracom.net> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Ahh, wikipedia, I should have known. Thanks! John On 3/26/10 5:01 PM, "Alan Knutson" wrote: > This is from Wikipedia: Mandan > > Lowie, Robert H. (1913). > Societies of the Hidatsa and Mandan Indians. In R. H. Lowie, Societies of the > Crow, Hidatsa, and Mandan Indians (pp. 219-358). Anthropological papers of the > American Museum Of Natural History (Vol. 11, Part 3). New York: The Trustees. > (Texts are on pp. 355-358). > > > On 3/26/2010 4:30 PM, Northeastern university wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I was reading Richard Carter's 1991. paper "Old Man Coyote and the Wild >> Potato: A Mandan trickster tale" and he mentioned that Robert Lowie >> published "three very short texts" in 1913. Does anyone know where these >> were published or where they are located? >> >> Thanks, >> >> John >> >> John P. Boyle >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Linguistics >> NEIU >> >> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From boris at terracom.net Fri Mar 26 23:00:21 2010 From: boris at terracom.net (Alan Knutson) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:00:21 -0500 Subject: Lowie Mandan Texts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A PDF/digital copy can be accessed at: http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/dspace/handle/2246/106 Alan K On 3/26/2010 5:43 PM, Northeastern university wrote: > Hi Alan, > > Ahh, wikipedia, I should have known. > > Thanks! > > John > > > On 3/26/10 5:01 PM, "Alan Knutson" wrote: > > This is from Wikipedia: Mandan > > Lowie, Robert H. > (1913). Societies of the Hidatsa and Mandan Indians. In R. H. > Lowie, /Societies of the Crow, Hidatsa, and Mandan Indians/ (pp. > 219-358). Anthropological papers of the American Museum Of Natural > History (Vol. 11, Part 3). New York: The Trustees. (Texts are on > pp. 355-358). > > > On 3/26/2010 4:30 PM, Northeastern university wrote: > > > Hi All, > > I was reading Richard Carter's 1991. paper "Old Man Coyote and > the Wild > Potato: A Mandan trickster tale" and he mentioned that Robert > Lowie > published "three very short texts" in 1913. Does anyone know > where these > were published or where they are located? > > Thanks, > > John > > John P. Boyle > Assistant Professor > Department of Linguistics > NEIU > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgoodtracks at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 13:11:19 2010 From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:11:19 -0500 Subject: OSAGE DICTIONARY Message-ID: The following reference resource is now available and has been received after a half year or more of delay: "Osage Dictionary," University of Oklahoma Press, Norman. 2009, by late Carolyn Quintero. The Osage language section contains full entries after the Osage, with sentences providing the contextual use of the word/ term/ prefix ~ suffix. Notes may follow providing further explanation or discussion of use. The English section is arranged much like Kenneth Miner's 1984 Winnebago Lexicon [Hochank], however, rather than a number to refer to the Winnebago entry gloss, the Osage dictionary provides an Osage word/ term/ prefix ~ suffix, which in turn the reader is able to locate in the Osage section for a fuller review of the word, its conjugation if it is a verb or use as a prefix ~ suffix. Carolyn provided a thorough discussion of current Osage orthography and contrasts that with the orthography of the Frances LaFlesche's Osage Dictionary (1932) and that of the unpublished materials and vocabulary slips of James Owen Dorsey [1883]. Also included is a brief grammar sketch, but refers a fuller discussion to her "Osage Grammar," University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln, 2004. This dictionary will serve as the most complete and exhaustive resource for the related Dhegiha language branch of the Siouan Languages, and particularly for the Osage Tribal Language Programs. It has been long awaited. In a personal note, the work would have been enhanced had Carolyn and Robert Bristow both lived to see it in print, and available for use by the present generations. Jimm G. Goodtracks Báxoje Jiwére Language Program POBox 122 White Cloud, Kansas 66094 785 595 3335 Ríre hánwegi ich^é irégrat^a je? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmcbride at kawnation.com Tue Mar 30 14:22:02 2010 From: jmcbride at kawnation.com (Justin McBride) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:22:02 -0500 Subject: OSAGE DICTIONARY Message-ID: I received my copy of "Osage Dictionary" this weekend, and was very glad to do so after delay upon delay. The book is great; it's just what we need around the office. And I was also glad to see that one of the two recommendation quotes on the back cover came from none other than the Kaw Language Dept's own Linda Cumberland! Like Jimm says, the book could have been better had Carolyn lived to see it in print, but I it's a fine addition to any Siouanist's library. Get it from OU Press and there's a small online discount, though it still comes to about $60 with shipping and handling. -Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimm GoodTracks To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com ; siouan at lists.colorado.ed Cc: Justin McBride KANZA ; Wilson K. Pipestem Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:11 AM Subject: OSAGE DICTIONARY The following reference resource is now available and has been received after a half year or more of delay: "Osage Dictionary," University of Oklahoma Press, Norman. 2009, by late Carolyn Quintero. The Osage language section contains full entries after the Osage, with sentences providing the contextual use of the word/ term/ prefix ~ suffix. Notes may follow providing further explanation or discussion of use. The English section is arranged much like Kenneth Miner's 1984 Winnebago Lexicon [Hochank], however, rather than a number to refer to the Winnebago entry gloss, the Osage dictionary provides an Osage word/ term/ prefix ~ suffix, which in turn the reader is able to locate in the Osage section for a fuller review of the word, its conjugation if it is a verb or use as a prefix ~ suffix. Carolyn provided a thorough discussion of current Osage orthography and contrasts that with the orthography of the Frances LaFlesche's Osage Dictionary (1932) and that of the unpublished materials and vocabulary slips of James Owen Dorsey [1883]. Also included is a brief grammar sketch, but refers a fuller discussion to her "Osage Grammar," University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln, 2004. This dictionary will serve as the most complete and exhaustive resource for the related Dhegiha language branch of the Siouan Languages, and particularly for the Osage Tribal Language Programs. It has been long awaited. In a personal note, the work would have been enhanced had Carolyn and Robert Bristow both lived to see it in print, and available for use by the present generations. Jimm G. Goodtracks Báxoje Jiwére Language Program POBox 122 White Cloud, Kansas 66094 785 595 3335 Ríre hánwegi ich^é irégrat^a je? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From David.Rood at Colorado.EDU Wed Mar 3 21:47:04 2010 From: David.Rood at Colorado.EDU (ROOD DAVID S) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 14:47:04 -0700 Subject: ELAN language archiving technology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark, I have been using ELAN since it was first introduced in a very experimental form in the DOBES program in 2000. It is being steadily improved. I have had no complaints since they fixed some of the really horrid bugs from the early versions. I am using it only for annotating Wichita videos, though I have also put one Lakota audio text into it in a preliminary way. We're using it for the Lakota videos in my current project, too. You can set up an unlimited number of tiers for different kinds of information about the data. In the Wichita, I use tiers for individual speakers, Wichita transcription, morphological analysis, glosses, grammar coding, and comments (some tapes require different things, depending on what's on them). In the Lakota we're using one tier for an "underlying" transcripton and another for phonetic (fast speech) deviations. I don't know what other similar programs are out there, but for aligning video, audio, and transcription, I think ELAN is great. For precise phonetic analysis, however, I go elsewhere (Praat, Sound Forge). I haven't used this as a database, i.e. I don't know much about the search functions, but I did get a very nice printout of a Lakota text formatted exactly the way I wanted to display it for classroom use. Keep in mind that I am probably the most computer illiterate Siouanist on the list -- if I can figure it out, I think anyone else can, too. I haven't seen any more "labor intensive" phenomenon than would be needed for any other program. If you don't have anything in writing, you have to write it somewhere at least once, and putting it into ELAN is no worse than anything else. There is one counter-intuitive feature that bothers me. To save whatever you have just typed, you need to hit "control enter" -- otherwise your typing disappears. A few experiences with that problem are enough to inspire learning to do it right, however. Best, David David S. Rood Dept. of Linguistics Univ. of Colorado 295 UCB Boulder, CO 80309-0295 USA rood at colorado.edu On Wed, 3 Mar 2010, Mark J Awakuni-Swetland wrote: > http://www.lat-mpi.eu/tools/elan/ > > Aloha all, > > Are any of y'all familiar with ELAN, a language archiving program? > > The UNL Center for Digital Research in the Humanities (CDRH) folks are > suggesting I look at it for possible applications to the Omaha database > work in progress. > > My CDRH guy give me an initial demo today.. > > The program requires an operator to insert transcription directly linked > to audio video files. > > It is XML based, so supposedly is UNICODE compliant. > > It looks like the straight text transcription can have a second line with > parts of speech, and a third line that renders everything in IPA. > > I just sent over a short wav file with Omaha elicitation to see how we can > deal with an Omaha orthography. > > It is possible to search on text words (presumably Omaha, too, if that > works). > > The visual ability with the wav files does make me think that prosody > studies could be done. > > Dumping the wav files into Audacity or other software could give you pitch > contours and such, like what Rory Larson has been playing with recently. > > Bottom line, It looks really labor intensive up front... but might have > some uses down the road > > Ideas? > > Thanks > Mark > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Anthropology > and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) > University of Nebraska > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Wed Mar 3 21:28:34 2010 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:28:34 -0600 Subject: ELAN language archiving technology Message-ID: http://www.lat-mpi.eu/tools/elan/ Aloha all, Are any of y'all familiar with ELAN, a language archiving program? The UNL Center for Digital Research in the Humanities (CDRH) folks are suggesting I look at it for possible applications to the Omaha database work in progress. My CDRH guy give me an initial demo today.. The program requires an operator to insert transcription directly linked to audio video files. It is XML based, so supposedly is UNICODE compliant. It looks like the straight text transcription can have a second line with parts of speech, and a third line that renders everything in IPA. I just sent over a short wav file with Omaha elicitation to see how we can deal with an Omaha orthography. It is possible to search on text words (presumably Omaha, too, if that works). The visual ability with the wav files does make me think that prosody studies could be done. Dumping the wav files into Audacity or other software could give you pitch contours and such, like what Rory Larson has been playing with recently. Bottom line, It looks really labor intensive up front... but might have some uses down the road Ideas? Thanks Mark Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Anthropology and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu http://omahaponca.unl.edu Phone 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wipamankere at hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 09:19:43 2010 From: wipamankere at hotmail.com (Iren Hartmann) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 03:19:43 -0600 Subject: ELAN language archiving technology In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark, if you decide to use ELAN, you might also want to look at this nice little free tool: http://sweet.artsrn.ualberta.ca/cdcox/cuped/ With CuPED you can create Webpages of your ELAN and media files. It's very easy to use and the presentation format might be useful for your project. Best, Iren Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:28:34 -0600 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: ELAN language archiving technology http://www.lat-mpi.eu/tools/elan/ Aloha all, Are any of y'all familiar with ELAN, a language archiving program? The UNL Center for Digital Research in the Humanities (CDRH) folks are suggesting I look at it for possible applications to the Omaha database work in progress. My CDRH guy give me an initial demo today.. The program requires an operator to insert transcription directly linked to audio video files. It is XML based, so supposedly is UNICODE compliant. It looks like the straight text transcription can have a second line with parts of speech, and a third line that renders everything in IPA. I just sent over a short wav file with Omaha elicitation to see how we can deal with an Omaha orthography. It is possible to search on text words (presumably Omaha, too, if that works). The visual ability with the wav files does make me think that prosody studies could be done. Dumping the wav files into Audacity or other software could give you pitch contours and such, like what Rory Larson has been playing with recently. Bottom line, It looks really labor intensive up front... but might have some uses down the road Ideas? Thanks Mark Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. Assistant Professor of Anthropology and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) University of Nebraska Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu http://omahaponca.unl.edu Phone 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469229/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Mon Mar 8 12:38:40 2010 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2010 06:38:40 -0600 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carudin1 at wsc.edu Mon Mar 15 19:59:24 2010 From: carudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 14:59:24 -0500 Subject: Dakota cognate?? Message-ID: Hi, guys -- I'm just entering some information from Dorsey slips for the Omaha and Ponca dictionary and ran across an odd-looking cognate. Does it make sense for optaye to be Dakota cognate for O-P cuka? Catherine here's a link to the slip image http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/ck/opd.01.088.08c.jpg From rankin at ku.edu Mon Mar 15 20:35:04 2010 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 15:35:04 -0500 Subject: Dakota cognate?? Message-ID: No way. But I've discovered that what Dorsey has at the bottom of many of his slips are not cognates in our technical sense of the word. They should probably be called something like "equivalents". For the other 3 or 4 Dhegiha languages he almost always gives real cognates, and they're usually nearly identical. Once he gets outside Dhegiha, all bets are off. He gives a cognate if one was obvious to him, but otherwise he may just give some term with a similar meaning. Is the O-P form "cuka" that you give here Dorsey's transcription? In other words, is this [s^uka] or is it [c^uka], with a "ch" sound? If it's "ch" then I'm wondering what a cognate in the other languages might look like. "Ch" generally doesn't occur before /u/, so I'm just curious. Does he give Osage, Kansa or Quapaw cognates for it? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Catherine Rudin Sent: Mon 3/15/2010 2:59 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Dakota cognate?? Hi, guys -- I'm just entering some information from Dorsey slips for the Omaha and Ponca dictionary and ran across an odd-looking cognate. Does it make sense for optaye to be Dakota cognate for O-P cuka? Catherine here's a link to the slip image http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/ck/opd.01.088.08c.jpg From jmcbride at kawnation.com Mon Mar 15 21:02:14 2010 From: jmcbride at kawnation.com (Justin McBride) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:02:14 -0500 Subject: Dakota cognate?? Message-ID: I can't speak for Dakotan, Catherine, but to answer Bob's question, JOD does have a few KS entries that may be either cognate or at least somewhat related. In his personal names slips, he lists the female name C?-ka m? [s^?kka miN] and the male name Cu-k?-mi [s^okk?miN], but offers only an unhelpful translation of the former, 'Cu-ka female.' In his dictionary slip file, there's also c?-ga [s^?ga], which he defines as 'thick; dense.' I can't say for sure why KS would voice a stop that OP doesn't, though, so maybe that last one's not related after all, but the semantics seem to match up. -jtm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: RE: Dakota cognate?? No way. But I've discovered that what Dorsey has at the bottom of many of his slips are not cognates in our technical sense of the word. They should probably be called something like "equivalents". For the other 3 or 4 Dhegiha languages he almost always gives real cognates, and they're usually nearly identical. Once he gets outside Dhegiha, all bets are off. He gives a cognate if one was obvious to him, but otherwise he may just give some term with a similar meaning. Is the O-P form "cuka" that you give here Dorsey's transcription? In other words, is this [s^uka] or is it [c^uka], with a "ch" sound? If it's "ch" then I'm wondering what a cognate in the other languages might look like. "Ch" generally doesn't occur before /u/, so I'm just curious. Does he give Osage, Kansa or Quapaw cognates for it? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Catherine Rudin Sent: Mon 3/15/2010 2:59 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Dakota cognate?? Hi, guys -- I'm just entering some information from Dorsey slips for the Omaha and Ponca dictionary and ran across an odd-looking cognate. Does it make sense for optaye to be Dakota cognate for O-P cuka? Catherine here's a link to the slip image http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/ck/opd.01.088.08c.jpg From rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu Mon Mar 15 21:58:38 2010 From: rlarson at unlnotes.unl.edu (Rory M Larson) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 16:58:38 -0500 Subject: Dakota cognate?? In-Reply-To: <98A3710D80D44085BAEAFAC11A05A720@LANGDIRECTOR> Message-ID: Bob - Yes, it's s^ukka. You should be able to see the slip via the link Catherine included. I just looked up optaye in Riggs. It's the Dakota word for a flock of birds, a herd of animals, or a company of people. Dorsey has included it here because it matches the Omaha word in meaning, not because it is cognate. Justin - Omaha has the word s^uga meaning 'thick' too. That would be cognate to your s^?ga. Can we make any sense out of those names translating s^?kka as 'flock'/'herd'/'company'? Rory "Justin McBride" Sent by: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU 03/15/2010 04:05 PM Please respond to siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU To cc Subject Re: Dakota cognate?? I can't speak for Dakotan, Catherine, but to answer Bob's question, JOD does have a few KS entries that may be either cognate or at least somewhat related. In his personal names slips, he lists the female name C?-ka m? [s^?kka miN] and the male name Cu-k?-mi [s^okk?miN], but offers only an unhelpful translation of the former, 'Cu-ka female.' In his dictionary slip file, there's also c?-ga [s^?ga], which he defines as 'thick; dense.' I can't say for sure why KS would voice a stop that OP doesn't, though, so maybe that last one's not related after all, but the semantics seem to match up. -jtm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: RE: Dakota cognate?? No way. But I've discovered that what Dorsey has at the bottom of many of his slips are not cognates in our technical sense of the word. They should probably be called something like "equivalents". For the other 3 or 4 Dhegiha languages he almost always gives real cognates, and they're usually nearly identical. Once he gets outside Dhegiha, all bets are off. He gives a cognate if one was obvious to him, but otherwise he may just give some term with a similar meaning. Is the O-P form "cuka" that you give here Dorsey's transcription? In other words, is this [s^uka] or is it [c^uka], with a "ch" sound? If it's "ch" then I'm wondering what a cognate in the other languages might look like. "Ch" generally doesn't occur before /u/, so I'm just curious. Does he give Osage, Kansa or Quapaw cognates for it? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Catherine Rudin Sent: Mon 3/15/2010 2:59 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Dakota cognate?? Hi, guys -- I'm just entering some information from Dorsey slips for the Omaha and Ponca dictionary and ran across an odd-looking cognate. Does it make sense for optaye to be Dakota cognate for O-P cuka? Catherine here's a link to the slip image http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/ck/opd.01.088.08c.jpg -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From carudin1 at wsc.edu Mon Mar 15 22:46:54 2010 From: carudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 17:46:54 -0500 Subject: Dakota cognate?? Message-ID: Thanks to all who answered. Clearly it's "equivalent" but not "cognate" in the normal sense, as Bob said... I guess I've been seeing mostly cognates that are actually cognate and/or not paying much attention. :-) C. >>> Rory M Larson 03/15/10 5:02 PM >>> Bob - Yes, it's s^ukka. You should be able to see the slip via the link Catherine included. I just looked up optaye in Riggs. It's the Dakota word for a flock of birds, a herd of animals, or a company of people. Dorsey has included it here because it matches the Omaha word in meaning, not because it is cognate. Justin - Omaha has the word s^uga meaning 'thick' too. That would be cognate to your s^?ga. Can we make any sense out of those names translating s^?kka as 'flock'/'herd'/'company'? Rory "Justin McBride" Sent by: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU 03/15/2010 04:05 PM Please respond to siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU To cc Subject Re: Dakota cognate?? I can't speak for Dakotan, Catherine, but to answer Bob's question, JOD does have a few KS entries that may be either cognate or at least somewhat related. In his personal names slips, he lists the female name C?-ka m? [s^?kka miN] and the male name Cu-k?-mi [s^okk?miN], but offers only an unhelpful translation of the former, 'Cu-ka female.' In his dictionary slip file, there's also c?-ga [s^?ga], which he defines as 'thick; dense.' I can't say for sure why KS would voice a stop that OP doesn't, though, so maybe that last one's not related after all, but the semantics seem to match up. -jtm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rankin, Robert L" To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2010 3:35 PM Subject: RE: Dakota cognate?? No way. But I've discovered that what Dorsey has at the bottom of many of his slips are not cognates in our technical sense of the word. They should probably be called something like "equivalents". For the other 3 or 4 Dhegiha languages he almost always gives real cognates, and they're usually nearly identical. Once he gets outside Dhegiha, all bets are off. He gives a cognate if one was obvious to him, but otherwise he may just give some term with a similar meaning. Is the O-P form "cuka" that you give here Dorsey's transcription? In other words, is this [s^uka] or is it [c^uka], with a "ch" sound? If it's "ch" then I'm wondering what a cognate in the other languages might look like. "Ch" generally doesn't occur before /u/, so I'm just curious. Does he give Osage, Kansa or Quapaw cognates for it? Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Catherine Rudin Sent: Mon 3/15/2010 2:59 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Dakota cognate?? Hi, guys -- I'm just entering some information from Dorsey slips for the Omaha and Ponca dictionary and ran across an odd-looking cognate. Does it make sense for optaye to be Dakota cognate for O-P cuka? Catherine here's a link to the slip image http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/ck/opd.01.088.08c.jpg From kdshea at aol.com Mon Mar 22 23:01:12 2010 From: kdshea at aol.com (Kathleen Shea) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:01:12 -0600 Subject: sad news Message-ID: I'm am sorry to report that Siouan list member Tom Leonard passed away on Saturday, March 22. He was a longtime member of the Native American Church (Ponca Chapter) and an avid student of the Ponca and Osage languages. He was also a longtime friend, and I've always known him to be helpful and generous with his time, knowledge, and sharing materials. His adopted Ponca family will honor his wish to be buried next to his adopted mother, Josetta Rush, in the Ponca Indian Cemetery. The funeral will be Tuesday, March 23, at the Ponca Indian Baptist Church. A full obituary can be read in today's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com. Kathy Shea -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgoodtracks at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 01:15:53 2010 From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:15:53 -0500 Subject: sad news In-Reply-To: <001801caca13$927dfc80$4001a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: Kathy: I am uncertain if I knew him personally, however his name is quite familiar. Whatever did he pass on from as I see he was only 51yoa. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathleen Shea To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:01 PM Subject: sad news I'm am sorry to report that Siouan list member Tom Leonard passed away on Saturday, March 22. He was a longtime member of the Native American Church (Ponca Chapter) and an avid student of the Ponca and Osage languages. He was also a longtime friend, and I've always known him to be helpful and generous with his time, knowledge, and sharing materials. His adopted Ponca family will honor his wish to be buried next to his adopted mother, Josetta Rush, in the Ponca Indian Cemetery. The funeral will be Tuesday, March 23, at the Ponca Indian Baptist Church. A full obituary can be read in today's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com. Kathy Shea -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Tue Mar 23 13:22:23 2010 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 08:22:23 -0500 Subject: sad news In-Reply-To: <001801caca13$927dfc80$4001a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: Aho, I never had the opportunity to meet Tom in person but he was always generous in sharing his thoughts and resources with me through the years. I did not know his background and relationships with the Ponca. Reading his obituary gave me pause as aspects of it seem to mirror my own experiences as an adopt kid. Tom will be sorely missed. Uthixide -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kdshea at aol.com Tue Mar 23 17:36:44 2010 From: kdshea at aol.com (Kathleen Shea) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:36:44 -0600 Subject: sad news Message-ID: Jimm, I heard through his adopted sister April (Aunt Josetta's daughter) that he had colon cancer, which, unfortunately was not caught early. I hadn't been in touch with Tom for some time but kept up on news about him through Sister April. Some of the good memories I have of Tom exemplify his thoughtfulness. The first year or so that I was around the Poncas in Oklahoma (1994 or 1995), I was invited to attend the Hethushka dance. I didn't know at the time that my being invited meant that I would be given something. I heard my name called out by the M. C. (Abe Conklin at the time), and I was given a blanket! Tom had provided the blanket for his friend Jimmy Duncan, who was joining the Hethushka Society, to give away. They had decided to give it to me to encourage me in my work of studying the Ponca language. I remember thinking that it really does pay to be a linguist! Another time, I was visiting Tom and his family at their home in Tulsa, and, as is the Ponca custom when someone visits for the first time, he gave me a gift--a copy of the set of sixteen tapes that had been produced during the project conducted by anthropologist William Leap in the 1970's and Uncle Parrish William's sister Martha Grass, among others. These tapes, with the accompanying booklet The Ponca World (which I photocopied from Bob Rankin's copy), are no longer available, and my copy was a copy Tom had had professionally made of his set. Tom also filled me in on aspects of Ponca culture and society. He encouraged me to put on a dinner for the Ponca elders, because he thought that that would be an appropriate gesture, and much later I followed his advice by sponsoring a dinner in conjunction with the Ponca Language Arts Council, Ponca Tribe of Oklahoma, where, at Uncle Parrish's suggestion, we invited Barbara Warner (a Ponca and Oklahoma Commisioner of Indian Affairs) to be the guest speaker. The dinner was a success, I think, as evidenced by the fact that several elders stood up and talked, a couple of them even addressing the group at length in Ponca. Sadly, most of those elders are now thiNge...thiNgai (are gone). Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimm GoodTracks To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 7:15 PM Subject: Re: sad news Kathy: I am uncertain if I knew him personally, however his name is quite familiar. Whatever did he pass on from as I see he was only 51yoa. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathleen Shea To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:01 PM Subject: sad news I'm am sorry to report that Siouan list member Tom Leonard passed away on Saturday, March 22. He was a longtime member of the Native American Church (Ponca Chapter) and an avid student of the Ponca and Osage languages. He was also a longtime friend, and I've always known him to be helpful and generous with his time, knowledge, and sharing materials. His adopted Ponca family will honor his wish to be buried next to his adopted mother, Josetta Rush, in the Ponca Indian Cemetery. The funeral will be Tuesday, March 23, at the Ponca Indian Baptist Church. A full obituary can be read in today's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com. Kathy Shea -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgoodtracks at gmail.com Tue Mar 23 18:28:27 2010 From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2010 13:28:27 -0500 Subject: sad news In-Reply-To: <003a01cacaaf$69080020$4001a8c0@aoldsl.net> Message-ID: Thanks, Kathy for the information, and moments of your relations and opportunities of interaction. I know I must have seen Tom, but there apparently were no event for becoming a mutual acquaintance. jimm PS: I am sure you have heard that Tony Arkeketa also passed on this week and services are Thursday, whether it is in Red Rock or White Eagle. He always retained his connections to his Otoe relatives, and was first married to TeeTee Moore, daughter of Otoe Elder Sidney and Pearl Moore (Pearl was Pawnee). Tony however was raised on his Ponca side (mother's side) and spoke Ponca and was well versed in the songs of the Ponca (Hethushka, NAC, etc.). He was plagued by diabetes, and had some toes amputated. He shared with me that he was despondent that Oklahoma IHS would not provide any genuine treatment (a common community complaint) for his condition, so on his own, he procured treatment in that city above Macey & Winnebago, NE, I believe it is called Sioux City, NE. It definitely was in NE, I'm certain. He continued his interest in Otoe Iroshka and MC'd each December in Red Rock, along with Frank Carson. I attended a Sweat Purification Lodge in Red Rock last year in which he lead the prayer and the singing, backed by one of his daughters. But during the half way break, he was obliged to sit outside, being exhausted. He was working on Ponca language to provide learning materials for his grandchildren, but had until lately frequently consulted with me on Otoe-Missouria. Several years ago, we both were requested to share the directorship of an Ioway Language program (Perkins, OK) got into the administration of it, and it got derailed and convoluted. It was discouraging. With his passing, and those in January and February, I am unable to entertain anything hopeful for a cultural / language resurgence among the three communities. I believe that my work is simply to provide documentation of the language, however, I will continue to develop materials for my grandson for the foreseeable future. Thanks again for the information. Perhaps, if I decide to make the seven hour trip to Oklahoma, I'll see you at Tony's service. The Ponca Hethushka is scheduled for this coming weekend. ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathleen Shea To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2010 12:36 PM Subject: Re: sad news Jimm, I heard through his adopted sister April (Aunt Josetta's daughter) that he had colon cancer, which, unfortunately was not caught early. I hadn't been in touch with Tom for some time but kept up on news about him through Sister April. Some of the good memories I have of Tom exemplify his thoughtfulness. The first year or so that I was around the Poncas in Oklahoma (1994 or 1995), I was invited to attend the Hethushka dance. I didn't know at the time that my being invited meant that I would be given something. I heard my name called out by the M. C. (Abe Conklin at the time), and I was given a blanket! Tom had provided the blanket for his friend Jimmy Duncan, who was joining the Hethushka Society, to give away. They had decided to give it to me to encourage me in my work of studying the Ponca language. I remember thinking that it really does pay to be a linguist! Another time, I was visiting Tom and his family at their home in Tulsa, and, as is the Ponca custom when someone visits for the first time, he gave me a gift--a copy of the set of sixteen tapes that had been produced during the project conducted by anthropologist William Leap in the 1970's and Uncle Parrish William's sister Martha Grass, among others. These tapes, with the accompanying booklet The Ponca World (which I photocopied from Bob Rankin's copy), are no longer available, and my copy was a copy Tom had had professionally made of his set. Tom also filled me in on aspects of Ponca culture and society. He encouraged me to put on a dinner for the Ponca elders, because he thought that that would be an appropriate gesture, and much later I followed his advice by sponsoring a dinner in conjunction with the Ponca Language Arts Council, Ponca Tribe of Oklahoma, where, at Uncle Parrish's suggestion, we invited Barbara Warner (a Ponca and Oklahoma Commisioner of Indian Affairs) to be the guest speaker. The dinner was a success, I think, as evidenced by the fact that several elders stood up and talked, a couple of them even addressing the group at length in Ponca. Sadly, most of those elders are now thiNge...thiNgai (are gone). Kathy ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimm GoodTracks To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 7:15 PM Subject: Re: sad news Kathy: I am uncertain if I knew him personally, however his name is quite familiar. Whatever did he pass on from as I see he was only 51yoa. Jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Kathleen Shea To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:01 PM Subject: sad news I'm am sorry to report that Siouan list member Tom Leonard passed away on Saturday, March 22. He was a longtime member of the Native American Church (Ponca Chapter) and an avid student of the Ponca and Osage languages. He was also a longtime friend, and I've always known him to be helpful and generous with his time, knowledge, and sharing materials. His adopted Ponca family will honor his wish to be buried next to his adopted mother, Josetta Rush, in the Ponca Indian Cemetery. The funeral will be Tuesday, March 23, at the Ponca Indian Baptist Church. A full obituary can be read in today's Ponca City News at www.poncacitynews.com. Kathy Shea -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linguista at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 06:08:50 2010 From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan James Gordon) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2010 23:08:50 -0700 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Liz Kennedy here at UA is involved with a grant from Georgia to develop transcription/translation protocols for a program down in South America. Working with native speakers trained in writing and teaching their language and with linguists fluent in the language, they allotted 20 hours to the transcript/translation of each individual story. This seemed generous to me, but I know sometimes variation and garbled recordings can slow you down. Any word yet on the dates of the conference this year? - Bryan 2010/3/8 Mark J Awakuni-Swetland > Aloha all, > I need some guidance! > > I am pulling together a grant proposal to begin field checking the 20K > JODorsey slip lexicon that is emerging from my NEH Omaha and Ponca Digital > Dictionay project. > > Catherine Rudin and I will work with Omaha speakers to confirm lexemes, > fill in inflected forms, elicit contemporary-context sample sentences, and > other cultural information. > > We will concentrate on digitally audio recording the sessions. > > Video remains problematic for my speakers. > > As we all know, a one hour session will have many false starts and other > chit chat. > > *1) What are your thoughts about editing out that material prior to > transcription?* > > Rory Larson and I worked with our UNL speakers last year to test out the > field checking process. We captured some very rich materials. However, the > majority of clock time was in English, less in Omaha. > > My thoughts are to hire one or more GTAs to do the first pass of > transcription for the English while flagging the Omaha for me to handle. > > I am investigating the ELAN software program and appreciate David Rood and > Iren Hartmann's input on that. > > I expect we would do a simple 'first pass' of straight transcription at > this point. > > *2) What have been your experiences with estimates of time required to do > a 'simple' transcription of English?* > ** > *3) What about the Native language transcription time?* > ** > Many thanks for considering this. > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Anthropology > and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) > University of Nebraska > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 25 14:45:47 2010 From: dvklinguist2003 at yahoo.com (David Kaufman) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 07:45:47 -0700 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey Bryan, John B. sent a request for papers awhile back that has the conference info.? I've attached it below: CALL FOR PAPERS The 30th Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference in conjunction with The Workshop on Comparative Siouan Syntax June 2-5, 2010 Hosted by The Linguistic Department at Northeastern Illinois University, at the Northeastern Illinois University Main Campus We invite papers that focus on any aspect of Siouan and Caddoan languages and linguistics: Descriptive or Theoretical Linguistics Historical Linguistics Language Maintenance and Preservation Language Pedagogical Papers: ? ? Abstracts are due May 14th by 4:00 PM.? Individuals who wish to present a paper should e-mail a paper title, an abstract (no longer than 500 words), the author?s name and any affiliation to or mail a hard copy with the? above information to: ? ? ? ? Dr. John P. Boyle ? ? ? ? Department of Linguistics ? ? ? ? 5500 North St. Louis Ave. ? ? ? ? Chicago, IL. 60625 Presentations: ? ???Notification of acceptance will be sent via e-mail by May 17, 2010. Presenters will be allotted a maximum of 30 minutes but shorter papers and informal and exploratory works are welcome.? If presenters would like a double time slot, please contact Dr. Boyle. Students and Native Peoples are encouraged to participate.? If any special AV equipment is needed please contact Dr. Boyle in advance. Registration: ? ? Conference registration is free and the public is welcome.? Please contact us if you plan to attend.? A preliminary program and additional information will be sent out by May 21st 2010. Accommodations: ? ? A block of rooms will be reserved at: ? ? ? ???The Holiday Inn Chicago, North Shore ? ? ? ? 5300 Touhy Ave. ? ? ? ? Skokie, IL ? ? ? ? 847-679-8900 --- On Thu, 3/25/10, Bryan James Gordon wrote: From: Bryan James Gordon Subject: Re: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Thursday, March 25, 2010, 1:08 AM Liz Kennedy here at UA is involved with a grant from Georgia to develop transcription/translation protocols for a program down in South America. Working with native speakers trained in writing and teaching their language and with linguists fluent in the language, they allotted 20 hours to the transcript/translation of each individual story. This seemed generous to me, but I know sometimes variation and garbled recordings can slow you down. Any word yet on the dates of the conference this year? - Bryan 2010/3/8 Mark J Awakuni-Swetland Aloha all, I need some guidance!?I am pulling together a grant proposal to begin field checking the 20K JODorsey slip lexicon that is emerging from my NEH Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionay project. ?Catherine Rudin and I will work with Omaha speakers to confirm lexemes, fill in inflected forms, elicit contemporary-context sample sentences, and other cultural information.?We will concentrate on digitally audio recording the sessions. ?Video remains problematic for my speakers.?As we all know, a one hour session will have many false starts and other chit chat.?1) What are your thoughts about editing out that material prior to transcription? ?Rory Larson and I worked with our UNL speakers last year to test out the field checking process. We captured some very rich materials. However, the majority of clock time was in English, less in Omaha. ?My thoughts are to hire one or more GTAs to do the first pass of transcription for the English while flagging the Omaha for me to handle.?I?am investigating the ELAN software program and appreciate David Rood and Iren Hartmann's input on that. ?I expect we would do a simple 'first pass' of straight transcription at this point.?2) What have been your experiences with estimates of time required to do a 'simple' transcription of English? ?3) What about the Native language transcription time??Many thanks for considering this.?Mark ?Mark?Awakuni-Swetland,?Ph.D. Assistant?Professor?of?Anthropology and?Ethnic?Studies?(Native?American?Studies) University?of?Nebraska Lincoln,?NE?68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu http://omahaponca.unl.edu Phone?402-472-3455 FAX:?402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linguista at gmail.com Thu Mar 25 19:39:22 2010 From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan James Gordon) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 12:39:22 -0700 Subject: sad news In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is very sad news, and a surprise to me, too, as the last time I saw Tom he seemed in high spirits and good health. But that was two years ago now. Tom was very kind to me at times when I needed it, and shared some of the best advice and knowledge. He has always kept up with this list, and even though he didn't post often, when he has, it's always been tremendously valuable. I'll miss his friendly person and his knowledge and advice. - Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Thu Mar 25 20:06:09 2010 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:06:09 -0500 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry Message-ID: The variables here are many and all are important. First, I think it is likely that few to none of the current Omaha speakers can be considered "native" in the sense in which it's used in South America. To me "native" implies native language *dominant*. I feel that most of the Omaha speakers are now English-dominant, even if they remember Omaha pretty well. This will make for some interference from English. Second, my students in intro linguistics always had problems transcribing English. Part of the problem was the newness of phonetic transcription and interference from English spelling, but part of it was the fluid nature of colloquial English speech registers. No matter how fluent the speaker, transcription takes lots of practice unless the person is a phonetic prodigy. Third, as for linguists, it will depend on how well you really know the language. It took me quite awhile to become confident of my ability to distinguish the 4 manners of stops, especially the difference between CC and Ch. It seems so simple and obvious now, but then -- not so much. Long and short vowels were even worse. I missed them pretty much entirely for over a decade. Finally I figured out that the accented ones were pretty easy; they had falling pitch in discourse. I thought I had it figured out until I realized that the unaccented ones didn't usually have the pitch contour. Nasal vs. oral vowels following nasal consonants remains a problem in many environments. Transcribing Kaw stories from recordings I made myself, I still have trouble. Allowing 20 hours per story doesn't seem unreasonable to me at all. If it takes less time after awhile, so much the better. Fourth, words in isolation can sometimes be even worse. The problems of list intonation and the influence of near-homonyms recently discussed arise. Since I went through the Dorsey Kaw dictionary in alphabetical order, inflection of one verb often contaminated discussion of the next verb in line. I made all the common mistakes, believe me. Someday some young linguist looking for a dissertation topic will get hold of my elicitation CDs and write a treatise on how NOT to do field work. And this was after two years of dialect field work in Romania and a good methodology course (and a pretty fair ear if I do say so myself). As for the English "asides" on the tapes, my field methods instructor, Larry Thompson the Salishanist, encouraged us to write down all the comments offered by the speaker(s). They often contain insights the importance of which only emerges much later, and if you didn't write them down, they're gone. You'll have to use your own judgment, but I'd say that any comment that has to do with the language is worth noting. Bob -----Original Message----- > Aloha all, > I need some guidance! > > I am pulling together a grant proposal to begin field checking the 20K > JODorsey slip lexicon that is emerging from my NEH Omaha and Ponca Digital > Dictionay project. > > Catherine Rudin and I will work with Omaha speakers to confirm lexemes, > fill in inflected forms, elicit contemporary-context sample sentences, and > other cultural information. > > We will concentrate on digitally audio recording the sessions. > > Video remains problematic for my speakers. > > As we all know, a one hour session will have many false starts and other > chit chat. > > *1) What are your thoughts about editing out that material prior to > transcription?* > > Rory Larson and I worked with our UNL speakers last year to test out the > field checking process. We captured some very rich materials. However, the > majority of clock time was in English, less in Omaha. > > My thoughts are to hire one or more GTAs to do the first pass of > transcription for the English while flagging the Omaha for me to handle. > > I am investigating the ELAN software program and appreciate David Rood and > Iren Hartmann's input on that. > > I expect we would do a simple 'first pass' of straight transcription at > this point. > > *2) What have been your experiences with estimates of time required to do > a 'simple' transcription of English?* > ** > *3) What about the Native language transcription time?* > ** > Many thanks for considering this. > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Assistant Professor of Anthropology > and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies) > University of Nebraska > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 > From rankin at ku.edu Thu Mar 25 20:21:07 2010 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 15:21:07 -0500 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry Message-ID: > Fourth, words in isolation can sometimes be even worse. The problems of list intonation and the influence of near-homonyms recently discussed arise. Since I went through the Dorsey Kaw dictionary in alphabetical order, inflection of one verb often contaminated discussion of the next verb in line. Let me give an example of what I mean here. In Kansa there are two different conjugations that begin with /ba-/ followed by the (often identical) verb root. These correspond to Omaha verbs in /ba-/ 'by pushing' and /maa-/ 'by cutting with a blade'. Their conjugation is completely different. The 1st and 2nd person agent prefixes are inserted in different places and have totally different forms (allomorphs). In Kaw one conjugation is 1sg ba-a-, 2sg ba-ya. The other conjugation is 1sg p-pa-, 2sg s^-pa-. The only difference in the 3rd person forms is accent and maybe vowel length. Unfortunately these near homophones come right before/after one another in the dictionary. I didn't have the sense to randomize them in my elicitation, and I managed to confuse poor Mrs. Rowe time after time as to which verb in the pairs we were discussing. Thus, a lot of erronious conjugated forms were recorded. Luckily most of these can be sorted out in retrospect, but a little more attention to detail on my part could have prevented the problems. Bob From carudin1 at wsc.edu Thu Mar 25 23:52:17 2010 From: carudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2010 18:52:17 -0500 Subject: transcription estimate and best practices inquiry Message-ID: Thanks a lot for all your insights, Bob. I for one can relate all too well to making every fieldwork error in the book. :-) All your points are valid -- especially the basic fact that transcription is hard (even for very fluent speakers, and especially for those who aren't). And I agree that it's important to transcribe speakers' metalinguistic commentary. I didn't always do it in the past, thinking it would be easy enough to listen back to the tapes for this. And have I gotten around to every listening??? Guess how often. Catherine >>> "Rankin, Robert L" 03/25/10 3:09 PM >>> From bmaxwell at mt.net Fri Mar 26 06:37:20 2010 From: bmaxwell at mt.net (Billy Maxwell) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 00:37:20 -0600 Subject: Omaha Conference 22APR10 Message-ID: Sorry to not reply quicker Vida. I have had so many emails these past few months, it is easy to miss them. Registration form is at: mcppp.org Here is our current line up as of 26MAR10: Ray Wood: "Maximillian Matters!" Matt Reed: "1865 Yankton Bison Hide Tipi" Billy Maxwell: "How was that skinned?" Kathy Brewer "Pelt Bags" Jim Johnston "An Unusual Bustle" Steve Tamayo: "From a Brule Point of View on Objects." Beth DeNike "Prairie Textiles" Billy Maxwell: "Hidatsa objects in the Knife River Collection" 10 am Joslyn Museum of Art visit Fred Schnieder "Hidatsa Ethnobotany from the Notes of Gilbert Wilson." Matt Reed "A Wichita Site Pre- & Post-Contact" Richard Gould "Pawnee Village Site" One possible drop out is Richard Gould. There is a chance he will talk during our Saturday evening meal. The change on the registration form schedule is that we will be going to the Joslyn at 10 am on Saturday. Billy Please email me if you are planning to come. With limited room we would not wish for anyone to make a long trip to an over packed event. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jp-boyle at neiu.edu Fri Mar 26 21:30:08 2010 From: jp-boyle at neiu.edu (Northeastern university) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 16:30:08 -0500 Subject: Lowie Mandan Texts Message-ID: Hi All, I was reading Richard Carter's 1991. paper "Old Man Coyote and the Wild Potato: A Mandan trickster tale" and he mentioned that Robert Lowie published "three very short texts" in 1913. Does anyone know where these were published or where they are located? Thanks, John John P. Boyle Assistant Professor Department of Linguistics NEIU From granta at edgehill.ac.uk Fri Mar 26 21:32:34 2010 From: granta at edgehill.ac.uk (Anthony Grant) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 21:32:34 +0000 Subject: Lowie Mandan Texts Message-ID: Maybe somewhere like the Journal of American Folklore? Didn't Will and Spinden's work appear round that time? I seem to recall they published in the Peabody Museum of Natural History or something like that. I know some of Lowie's notebooks are thought to be lost, and that his Washo texts were published in Anthropological Linguistics. Anthony >>> Northeastern university 03/26/10 9:28 PM >>> Hi All, I was reading Richard Carter's 1991. paper "Old Man Coyote and the Wild Potato: A Mandan trickster tale" and he mentioned that Robert Lowie published "three very short texts" in 1913. Does anyone know where these were published or where they are located? Thanks, John John P. Boyle Assistant Professor Department of Linguistics NEIU Edge Hill University 1885 - 2010 Shaping Futures for 125 Years Join the celebrations - http://www.edgehill.ac.uk/125 Top 10 UK University - http://www.edgehill.ac.uk/about/future/uktopten ----------------------------------------------------- This email and any attachments are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Edge Hill University or associated companies. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender as soon as possible and delete it and all copies of it. You must not, directly or indirectly, use, disclose, distribute, print, or copy any part of this message if you are not the intended recipient. The message content of in-coming emails is automatically scanned to identify Spam and viruses otherwise Edge Hill University do not actively monitor content. However, sometimes it will be necessary for Edge Hill University to access business communications during staff absence. Edge Hill University has taken steps to ensure that this email and any attachments are virus free. However, it is the responsibility of the recipient to ensure that it is virus free and no responsibility is accepted by Edge Hill University for any loss or damage arising in any way from its use. ----------------------------------------------------- From boris at terracom.net Fri Mar 26 22:01:26 2010 From: boris at terracom.net (Alan Knutson) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:01:26 -0500 Subject: Lowie Mandan Texts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is from Wikipedia: Mandan Lowie, Robert H. (1913). Societies of the Hidatsa and Mandan Indians. In R. H. Lowie, /Societies of the Crow, Hidatsa, and Mandan Indians/ (pp. 219-358). Anthropological papers of the American Museum Of Natural History (Vol. 11, Part 3). New York: The Trustees. (Texts are on pp. 355-358). On 3/26/2010 4:30 PM, Northeastern university wrote: > Hi All, > > I was reading Richard Carter's 1991. paper "Old Man Coyote and the Wild > Potato: A Mandan trickster tale" and he mentioned that Robert Lowie > published "three very short texts" in 1913. Does anyone know where these > were published or where they are located? > > Thanks, > > John > > John P. Boyle > Assistant Professor > Department of Linguistics > NEIU > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jp-boyle at neiu.edu Fri Mar 26 22:43:43 2010 From: jp-boyle at neiu.edu (Northeastern university) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 17:43:43 -0500 Subject: Lowie Mandan Texts In-Reply-To: <4BAD2EB6.7000608@terracom.net> Message-ID: Hi Alan, Ahh, wikipedia, I should have known. Thanks! John On 3/26/10 5:01 PM, "Alan Knutson" wrote: > This is from Wikipedia: Mandan > > Lowie, Robert H. (1913). > Societies of the Hidatsa and Mandan Indians. In R. H. Lowie, Societies of the > Crow, Hidatsa, and Mandan Indians (pp. 219-358). Anthropological papers of the > American Museum Of Natural History (Vol. 11, Part 3). New York: The Trustees. > (Texts are on pp. 355-358). > > > On 3/26/2010 4:30 PM, Northeastern university wrote: >> >> Hi All, >> >> I was reading Richard Carter's 1991. paper "Old Man Coyote and the Wild >> Potato: A Mandan trickster tale" and he mentioned that Robert Lowie >> published "three very short texts" in 1913. Does anyone know where these >> were published or where they are located? >> >> Thanks, >> >> John >> >> John P. Boyle >> Assistant Professor >> Department of Linguistics >> NEIU >> >> >> >> >> > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From boris at terracom.net Fri Mar 26 23:00:21 2010 From: boris at terracom.net (Alan Knutson) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2010 18:00:21 -0500 Subject: Lowie Mandan Texts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A PDF/digital copy can be accessed at: http://digitallibrary.amnh.org/dspace/handle/2246/106 Alan K On 3/26/2010 5:43 PM, Northeastern university wrote: > Hi Alan, > > Ahh, wikipedia, I should have known. > > Thanks! > > John > > > On 3/26/10 5:01 PM, "Alan Knutson" wrote: > > This is from Wikipedia: Mandan > > Lowie, Robert H. > (1913). Societies of the Hidatsa and Mandan Indians. In R. H. > Lowie, /Societies of the Crow, Hidatsa, and Mandan Indians/ (pp. > 219-358). Anthropological papers of the American Museum Of Natural > History (Vol. 11, Part 3). New York: The Trustees. (Texts are on > pp. 355-358). > > > On 3/26/2010 4:30 PM, Northeastern university wrote: > > > Hi All, > > I was reading Richard Carter's 1991. paper "Old Man Coyote and > the Wild > Potato: A Mandan trickster tale" and he mentioned that Robert > Lowie > published "three very short texts" in 1913. Does anyone know > where these > were published or where they are located? > > Thanks, > > John > > John P. Boyle > Assistant Professor > Department of Linguistics > NEIU > > > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgoodtracks at gmail.com Tue Mar 30 13:11:19 2010 From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 08:11:19 -0500 Subject: OSAGE DICTIONARY Message-ID: The following reference resource is now available and has been received after a half year or more of delay: "Osage Dictionary," University of Oklahoma Press, Norman. 2009, by late Carolyn Quintero. The Osage language section contains full entries after the Osage, with sentences providing the contextual use of the word/ term/ prefix ~ suffix. Notes may follow providing further explanation or discussion of use. The English section is arranged much like Kenneth Miner's 1984 Winnebago Lexicon [Hochank], however, rather than a number to refer to the Winnebago entry gloss, the Osage dictionary provides an Osage word/ term/ prefix ~ suffix, which in turn the reader is able to locate in the Osage section for a fuller review of the word, its conjugation if it is a verb or use as a prefix ~ suffix. Carolyn provided a thorough discussion of current Osage orthography and contrasts that with the orthography of the Frances LaFlesche's Osage Dictionary (1932) and that of the unpublished materials and vocabulary slips of James Owen Dorsey [1883]. Also included is a brief grammar sketch, but refers a fuller discussion to her "Osage Grammar," University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln, 2004. This dictionary will serve as the most complete and exhaustive resource for the related Dhegiha language branch of the Siouan Languages, and particularly for the Osage Tribal Language Programs. It has been long awaited. In a personal note, the work would have been enhanced had Carolyn and Robert Bristow both lived to see it in print, and available for use by the present generations. Jimm G. Goodtracks B?xoje Jiw?re Language Program POBox 122 White Cloud, Kansas 66094 785 595 3335 R?re h?nwegi ich^? ir?grat^a je? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmcbride at kawnation.com Tue Mar 30 14:22:02 2010 From: jmcbride at kawnation.com (Justin McBride) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 09:22:02 -0500 Subject: OSAGE DICTIONARY Message-ID: I received my copy of "Osage Dictionary" this weekend, and was very glad to do so after delay upon delay. The book is great; it's just what we need around the office. And I was also glad to see that one of the two recommendation quotes on the back cover came from none other than the Kaw Language Dept's own Linda Cumberland! Like Jimm says, the book could have been better had Carolyn lived to see it in print, but I it's a fine addition to any Siouanist's library. Get it from OU Press and there's a small online discount, though it still comes to about $60 with shipping and handling. -Justin ----- Original Message ----- From: Jimm GoodTracks To: lexicographylist at yahoogroups.com ; siouan at lists.colorado.ed Cc: Justin McBride KANZA ; Wilson K. Pipestem Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 8:11 AM Subject: OSAGE DICTIONARY The following reference resource is now available and has been received after a half year or more of delay: "Osage Dictionary," University of Oklahoma Press, Norman. 2009, by late Carolyn Quintero. The Osage language section contains full entries after the Osage, with sentences providing the contextual use of the word/ term/ prefix ~ suffix. Notes may follow providing further explanation or discussion of use. The English section is arranged much like Kenneth Miner's 1984 Winnebago Lexicon [Hochank], however, rather than a number to refer to the Winnebago entry gloss, the Osage dictionary provides an Osage word/ term/ prefix ~ suffix, which in turn the reader is able to locate in the Osage section for a fuller review of the word, its conjugation if it is a verb or use as a prefix ~ suffix. Carolyn provided a thorough discussion of current Osage orthography and contrasts that with the orthography of the Frances LaFlesche's Osage Dictionary (1932) and that of the unpublished materials and vocabulary slips of James Owen Dorsey [1883]. Also included is a brief grammar sketch, but refers a fuller discussion to her "Osage Grammar," University of Nebraska Press, Lincoln, 2004. This dictionary will serve as the most complete and exhaustive resource for the related Dhegiha language branch of the Siouan Languages, and particularly for the Osage Tribal Language Programs. It has been long awaited. In a personal note, the work would have been enhanced had Carolyn and Robert Bristow both lived to see it in print, and available for use by the present generations. Jimm G. Goodtracks B?xoje Jiw?re Language Program POBox 122 White Cloud, Kansas 66094 785 595 3335 R?re h?nwegi ich^? ir?grat^a je? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: