From saponi360 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  6 02:27:45 2010
From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins)
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:27:45 -0700
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
Message-ID: <SUN.5.SEP.2010.192745.0700.>

i was wondering if anyone had reviewed this book on the Tutelo-Saponi language. 

 

Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
 
 
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tutelo-(yesanechi-etymological-lexicon/6534103


      
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From rankin at ku.edu  Mon Sep  6 14:45:47 2010
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 09:45:47 -0500
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
Message-ID: <MON.6.SEP.2010.094547.0500.>

No, your posting is the first I've heard of it.  The author has apparently collected the existing word lists for several extinct Virginia languages and published them (again).  Lulu is a vanity press, not an academic or general one.  They're asking 15 bucks for the print version and 10 for a computer file.  I think anyone interested in Tutelo would do better to buy a copy of Giulia Oliverio's doctoral dissertation from University Microfilms International.  Then they'll have a grammar plus all the collected vocabulary, including unpublished ones.  

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Scott Collins
Sent: Sun 9/5/2010 9:27 PM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
 
i was wondering if anyone had reviewed this book on the Tutelo-Saponi language. 

 

Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
 
 
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tutelo-(yesanechi-etymological-lexicon/6534103


      


From rankin at ku.edu  Mon Sep  6 21:05:08 2010
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 16:05:08 -0500
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
Message-ID: <MON.6.SEP.2010.160508.0500.>

Anyone interested in obtaining a copy of Giulia Oliverio's Tutelo grammar and dictionary can go to:  http://disexpress.umi.com/dxweb#search

Then type "A Grammar of Tutelo" in the search box at the top of the page.  You can place an order from there.  

Bob


From saponi360 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  7 05:24:17 2010
From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 22:24:17 -0700
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F5BF0@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.6.SEP.2010.222417.0700.>

The Oliverio dictionary is the one I have and wondered about this new one.
 
 
 
 
 



--- On Mon, 9/6/10, Rankin, Robert L <rankin at ku.edu> wrote:


From: Rankin, Robert L <rankin at ku.edu>
Subject: RE: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 9:45 AM


No, your posting is the first I've heard of it.  The author has apparently collected the existing word lists for several extinct Virginia languages and published them (again).  Lulu is a vanity press, not an academic or general one.  They're asking 15 bucks for the print version and 10 for a computer file.  I think anyone interested in Tutelo would do better to buy a copy of Giulia Oliverio's doctoral dissertation from University Microfilms International.  Then they'll have a grammar plus all the collected vocabulary, including unpublished ones.  

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Scott Collins
Sent: Sun 9/5/2010 9:27 PM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse

i was wondering if anyone had reviewed this book on the Tutelo-Saponi language. 

 

Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
 
 
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tutelo-(yesanechi-etymological-lexicon/6534103


      




      
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From saponi360 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 14 06:49:27 2010
From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 23:49:27 -0700
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
Message-ID: <MON.13.SEP.2010.234927.0700.>

I was wondering if someone may know if "ne de wa ha" or "na da wa hey" has any similarity in the Quapaw language. I am uncertain if I'm spelling this correctly.




      
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From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep 14 09:29:48 2010
From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 09:29:48 +0000
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
In-Reply-To: <808771.88249.qm@web83507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.14.SEP.2010.092948.0000.>

It sounds a bit like Nadowey or Nadawey which I believe is Algonquian for 'foreigner', 'enemy', but that would be a long shot.  I'm sure most of you also thought of that.
Bruce

--- On Tue, 14/9/10, Scott Collins <saponi360 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Scott Collins <saponi360 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Date: Tuesday, 14 September, 2010, 7:49

I was wondering if someone may know if "ne de wa ha" or "na da wa hey" has any similarity in the Quapaw language. I am uncertain if I'm spelling this correctly.




      


      
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From rankin at ku.edu  Tue Sep 14 20:12:54 2010
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 15:12:54 -0500
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
Message-ID: <TUE.14.SEP.2010.151254.0500.>

Hey Scott,

Can you give English words that roughly rhyme with these syllables?  That way I won't have to guess at the vowel sounds.

Thanks,

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Scott Collins
Sent: Tue 9/14/2010 1:49 AM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
 
I was wondering if someone may know if "ne de wa ha" or "na da wa hey" has any similarity in the Quapaw language. I am uncertain if I'm spelling this correctly.




      


From saponi360 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 15 15:30:51 2010
From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 08:30:51 -0700
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F5C06@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.15.SEP.2010.083051.0700.>

These words, ne de wa ha, sound like, naw daw waw hay. 


--- On Tue, 9/14/10, Rankin, Robert L <rankin at ku.edu> wrote:


From: Rankin, Robert L <rankin at ku.edu>
Subject: RE: Quapaw Language Question
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:12 PM


Hey Scott,

Can you give English words that roughly rhyme with these syllables?  That way I won't have to guess at the vowel sounds.

Thanks,

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Scott Collins
Sent: Tue 9/14/2010 1:49 AM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Quapaw Language Question

I was wondering if someone may know if "ne de wa ha" or "na da wa hey" has any similarity in the Quapaw language. I am uncertain if I'm spelling this correctly.




      




      
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From jgoodtracks at gmail.com  Tue Sep 28 16:25:07 2010
From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:25:07 -0500
Subject: 2011 Siouan and Caddoan Languague ~ Linguistics Conference
Message-ID: <TUE.28.SEP.2010.112507.0500.>

2011 Siouan Languages ~ Linguistics Conference

Location:
The 2011 Siouan and Caddoan Linguistics Conference will be sponsored by the Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska at their tribal government complex, in the George Ogdon Building.  The meeting site is located five miles northwest of White Cloud, KS.  The address is: 
 3345 Thrasher Rd. White Cloud, KS 66094.  The Ogdon building houses many old family photos, and displays various family personal effects, such as beadwork, old dance clothes, and other interesting artifacts.

You may find the tribe's website here:   http://www.casinowhitecloud.org/iowatribe.html.  The web site has many photos of the tribal area, offices and motel accommodations.


Dates:  
Wens thru Sat., June 15th thru 18th, 2011. 
>> [NOTE:  The exact length of the conference will depend on the number of  presentations (papers) offered.  As in previous years, the formal presentations Siouan Languages and Comparative Linguistics have been given at the beginning days of the Conference, while the community (applied linguistics) presentations follow towards the end.  The actual conclusion of the conference will be determined by the total number of presentations, demonstrations, roundtables, etc.].


Lodging:
The Iowa Tribe has two separate locations for accommodations.  There is the Eagle Nest Motel, at the Squaw Creek truck stop, and four (4) individual cabins near the White Cloud Casino and the Tribal complex on Thrasher Road.  
The Tribal business will meet in October and conference group rates will be discussed.  More information is anticipated by October 7th, 2010.  However, the usual rates for the cabins is $60/nightly, and at the Eagle Nest Motel, $49.95 with a $7 charge for each additional person.

The cabins and convenience store & gas stop is located at 2314  330th St., 66094  (785 595 3430 Xtn.250).  The cabins sleep two, with an additional folding bed available as needed. 
The 23 unit Eagle Nest Motel is located on I-29, Hywy #159 at the Rulo (Nebr.) exit #79.  That would be 5miles South of Mound City, MO, three (3) miles from the Squaw Creek Wild Life Refuge,  and about 20 miles NE of the White Cloud Casino.  In the past, there had been a shuttle service available between the motel and the White Cloud Casino, however, it will need to be confirmed if it is still available, and if so, at what times of the day.  Reservations can be made at:  660 442 3267 or 86 994 1320.    

Meals and short orders are served at the Casino, with a $9 lunch buffet between 11am to 2pm.  Recently, the Casino began a morning breakfast short order and/ or biscuits and gravy between 7am to 10am.
The Eagle Nest Motel features a full restaurant and salad bar open to serve breakfast, lunch, dinner, and late night snacks.  A menu and prices can be viewed at their website:   http://www.casinowhitecloud.org/eaglesnest.html. 


Transportation:
>> The nearest major airport is Kansas City (MO)  -- about 1.5 hours drive from there to White Cloud.  The next closest airports are probably Lincoln or Omaha (NE), which are more than a 2 hours drive.
>> For those driving, use Map Quest, Google Maps, or any related directional device.

>>From the Look Out high point in White Cloud, one can easily see the states of Nebraska, Missouri and Iowa, all previous homelands of the Ioway People. 

If you should need further information, contact myself, or my assistant, Saul Schwartz (614 519 6964).  For those, who plan on a presentation, you may begin to let me know the title for scheduling a time slot.  Generally, 20 minutes is allowed for any presentation followed by an additional 10 minutes for questions and commentary.  Of course, this typical schedule may be adjusted as needed, if informed ahead of time.  

Usually there has been 20 to 30 (more or less) persons attending the conference, and thus, presenters should plan on bringing an equal number of copies of their handouts, as local commercial copy services are located 21 miles distant in the town of Hiawatha, KS, southwest of the conference site.  Also, audio and visual aide equipment will need to be arranged and furnished by the presenters.
  
White Cloud is located in the extreme Northeast corner of Kansas State, 10 miles south of Rulo, NE, 20 miles NW of Troy, KS and and 21 miles NE of Hiawatha, KS.  The Missouri Sac (& Fox) tribal area is directly 20 miles west of the Iowa Tribal Complex.  The Sac Casino and buffet is located on highway #75.  The old Ioway & Sac Mission School is located 11 miles South of White Cloud near the town of Highland.  The Kickapoo Tribe of Kansas and Casino buffet is located approximately 30 miles Southwest of the Iowa Tribal Complex.  Their tribal school is located somewhat closer at Powhatten, KS, although they may not have any summer activities in progress at the time of the Conference.  The Prairie Band Potawatomi Reservation, Casino buffet and Tribal complex is located by Mayetta, KS on hywy #75, approximately 80 miles from White Cloud or 30 miles north of Topeka, KS.   It is possible to arrange a visit to the White Cloud museum housed in the former two story school house in town if there is a group interest. 

Jimm G. Goodtracks
Báxoje Jiwére Language Program
POBox 122
White Cloud, Kansas 66094
785 595 3335 (home)
785 979 2015 (cell)

Ríre hánwegi ich^é irégrat^a je?
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From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu  Tue Sep 28 20:52:18 2010
From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:52:18 -0500
Subject: 2011 Siouan and Caddoan Languague ~ Linguistics Conference
In-Reply-To: <53C8A8E79B0146ACA0F68195B8C4CD1C@JGHP>
Message-ID: <TUE.28.SEP.2010.155218.0500.>

Aho wikHage Jimm,

Thanks for posting the general information for the upcoming SACC to be 
held in your neck of the woods.

What is the deadline for submitting abstracts for paper presentations?

WibthahoN

Uthixide


Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology
and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies)
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0368

http://omahalanguage.unl.edu
http://omahaponca.unl.edu
Phone 402-472-3455
FAX: 402-472-9642
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From jgoodtracks at gmail.com  Tue Sep 28 22:17:45 2010
From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:17:45 -0500
Subject: Fw: 2011 Siouan and Caddoan Languague ~ Linguistics Conference
Message-ID: <TUE.28.SEP.2010.171745.0500.>

Mark:
I believe that is an excellent question, and thanks for sending it along.
Last year, it seemed that the deadline was prolonged to the ultimate days to the dislike of the many, and to the confusion of our group from here.  I am thinking that May 1st, 2011 should be the last day to offer an abstract for a paper presentation so  a schedule can be worked out.  This is necessary in order to determine for the many, the conclusion of the conference, and for everyone's itinerary to schedule a return home by car, boat or airplane.  If there is an over whelming majority opinion to move that May 1st deadline closer, then we can do that too.
jimm   

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Mark J Awakuni-Swetland 
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: 2011 Siouan and Caddoan Languague ~ Linguistics Conference


Aho wikHage Jimm, 

Thanks for posting the general information for the upcoming SACC to be held in your neck of the woods. 

What is the deadline for submitting abstracts for paper presentations? 

WibthahoN 

Uthixide 


Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology
and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies)
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0368

http://omahalanguage.unl.edu
http://omahaponca.unl.edu
Phone 402-472-3455
FAX: 402-472-9642
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From saponi360 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 07:12:08 2010
From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:12:08 -0700
Subject: Ocananhowan and Occaneechi
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.001208.0700.>

Is the following correct information:
 
 "Ocananhowan - Recorded by Smith, and later by Starchey. It has not been decipherable in Algonquian. This is because the word is Siouan. Its construction is derived from the Tutelo yu:xkan, "man," "person" + ohon, "many" + hi wa, "come," "gather." Its meaning: "many people gather here." We have seen the exact word before in Algonquian: Occaneechi, the place where people gather." ----- "Roanoke" by Lee Miller Pg. 258 & 259 




      
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From linguista at gmail.com  Thu Sep 30 07:44:38 2010
From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan James Gordon)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:44:38 -0700
Subject: Ocananhowan and Occaneechi
In-Reply-To: <152600.59574.qm@web83506.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.004438.0700.>

It's a stretch.

Given the word parts yu:xkan + ohon + hi wa, there would have to have been a
lot of metathesis (rearranging the sounds) to get to the attested form
"Ocananhowan".

My suspicions are also raised by the fact that the "Algonquian" form (which
language?) starts with a similar first two syllables. That is a hint that,
if they are from separate language families, one may be borrowed. And the
beginning of that word does look Algonquian. But the end reminds me of Creek
placenames in the Southeast, and many Creek words begin like these two words
do, too.

The case for a Tutelo source would be helped if we had any reason to believe
that certain Tutelo dialects would have dropped the "y" in "yu:xkan", or
that certain English-speakers might have heard a Tutelo "yu:xkan" as "Ocan".

Just my nine cents.

- Bryan

2010/9/30 Scott Collins <saponi360 at yahoo.com>

> Is the following correct information:
>
>  "Ocananhowan - Recorded by Smith, and later by Starchey. It has not been
> decipherable in Algonquian. This is because the word is Siouan. Its
> construction is derived from the Tutelo yu:xkan, "man," "person" + ohon,
> "many" + hi wa, "come," "gather." Its meaning: "many people gather here." We
> have seen the exact word before in Algonquian: Occaneechi, the place where
> people gather." ----- "Roanoke" by Lee Miller Pg. 258 & 259
>
>
>
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From jgoodtracks at gmail.com  Thu Sep 30 13:48:41 2010
From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:48:41 -0500
Subject: Hochank Teaching Materials Vol. 1 & 2
In-Reply-To: <CE067C1C585E274CB996CF68197DC7120B7517604E@SDSU-MBX.jacks.local>
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.084841.0500.>

Thank You, Kathleen, for bringing up the need for Conference registration fee to cover refreshments, building clean up fee, etc.  A $20 registration fee should cover all such expenses for refreshments, coffee, tea, juices, disposable cups, etc.  The fee will be waved for any community people who wish to attend be are present, but are short on funds.  As such, the fee will cover the cost of hospitality to whosoever wishes to be present for part or all of the anticipated presentations.

Please send the registration fee to the:
 
2011 White Cloud Siouan Languages ~ Linguistics Conference
via:  Jimm G. Goodtracks, Host
Báxoje Jiwére Language Program
1510 Wisconsin St.; POBox 122
White Cloud, Kansas 66094

Feel free to present any questions and commentaries to either myself or 
Saul Schwartz, Conference Facilitator  

 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Danker, Kathleen" <Kathleen.Danker at SDSTATE.EDU>
To: "Jimm G. GoodTracks" <jgoodtracks at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:05 PM
Subject: RE: Hochank Teaching Materials Vol. 1 & 2


Hi, Jimm. I have another question. Is there a registration fee for the conference?

K.D.
________________________________________
>
> Jimm G. Goodtracks
> Báxoje Jiwére Language Program
> POBox 122
> White Cloud, Kansas 66094
> 785 595 3335
> Ríre hánwegi ich^é irégrat^a je?
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From jgoodtracks at gmail.com  Thu Sep 30 16:32:59 2010
From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:32:59 -0500
Subject: SACC
In-Reply-To: <OFE1C66268.125AE5A3-ON862577AD.0057BBA2-862577AD.00581673@unl.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.113259.0500.>

Mark:
I have just spoken with a member of the Executive Committee (Tribal Council).  I was told that the use of the George Ogdon Building will be without charge, and that includes full use of the kitchen area, the coffee urn and whatever supplies are available (coffee, tea, sugar, etc.).  Of course there is no parking permits...it's rural area.  So beyond the costs of ice, refreshments, fruit, donuts and Danish pastry, we may realize a return on the $20 Conference fee during the week to those who pay it.

Also, I confirmed that the Tribe still has a 6 passenger (sitting comfortably) shuttle van between the Eagle Nest Motel and the Casino/ Conference site.  They will arrange a convenient time of transport in the mornings and late afternoons as per the wishes of those who would like to leave their cars at the Motel, and leave the driving to the Tribal chauffeur, to take advantage of the scenic offerings of the Missouri River basin.  However, I would think it best, to have a commitment of a minimum of 6 (six) persons (attending Conference) to alert the driver, as there may be Casino guests who would also like the shuttle ride and as such, they would need to arrange the latter's transport at a different time schedule.  There is no charge for this service.

Kathleen Danker, South Dakota State University, Brookings, SD is the first to offer an abstract of her presentation on:

Title: What's New with the Transcriptions and Translations of the Trickster Tales of Felix White, Sr.?

This presentation provides an update for Siouan linguists and teachers of Native American languages on my long-term project of recording, transcribing, annotating, translating into English verse, and publishing a book of the Hochank Trickster narratives of the late Felix White, Sr., of Winnebago, Nebraska. Although I have not presented a paper on this project since the 1990s, I have continued to work on it and have completed preliminary versions of the fourteen stories that will comprise "The Foolish One: Trickster Narrative of Felix White, Sr."  I have typed the transcriptions of these tales using IT (Interlinear Text) 1.01r7 annotation software which facilitates multiple-line transitions from Hochank phonemes to morphemes to literal English translations. In order to make this material a more useful tool for students learning how to speak the Hochank language, I am currently revising the top lines of my transcriptions to more accurately represent the actual pronunciations, contractions, and accent patterns of Mr. White's speech as preserved on audio tapes. For this revision, I am also checking over my annotations and translations for consistency and accuracy and making sure that the line numbers of the annotated transcriptions match up with those of my free translations into English verse. So far, I have finished revising three stories.

I appreciate this early arrival to begin an agenda for the Conference, and I will send to forthcoming abstracts to the Siouan List and the Conference List (those who are registered for Conference, but not on the "official" Siouan list).   In this way, we all will have an idea of the developing scheduling of presentations and events.


Jimm G. Goodtracks
Báxoje Jiwére Language Program
POBox 122
White Cloud, Kansas 66094
785 595 3335 (home)
785 979 2015 (cell)

Ríre hánwegi ich^é irégrat^a je?


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark J Awakuni-Swetland 
  To: jgoodtracks at gmail.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:02 AM
  Subject: SACC


  Aho Jimm. 

  Glad to hear about the abstract due date. Thanks. I will start thinking about possible presentations. 

  I also wanted to re-affirm my offer to assist in any way possible in the upcoming SACC gathering at White Cloud. 

  As we get closer to the day I will bring up the subject with my Omaha speakers here at UNL. 

  Depending upon my available funds, I would like to be able to offer to cover their lodging/meals, at least, if they wanted to attend the conference. 

  I expect that Auntie Vida and some of her team will plan to attend since White Cloud is reasonably close to Macy. 

  Best, 
  Mark 


  Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D.
  Associate Professor of Anthropology
  and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies)
  University of Nebraska
  Lincoln, NE 68588-0368

  http://omahalanguage.unl.edu
  http://omahaponca.unl.edu
  Phone 402-472-3455
  FAX: 402-472-9642
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From rankin at ku.edu  Thu Sep 30 20:40:06 2010
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:40:06 -0500
Subject: Ocananhowan and Occaneechi
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.154006.0500.>

I'd have to agree.  Add to this the fact that many tribal names have no identifiable historical meaning and are "interpreted" locally by folk etymology.  Many of these folk interpretations even become "official".  These include Baxoje 'Ioway' (supposedly meaning an unlikely "dusty noses" or "gray snow", take your pick), Kansa (supposedly meaning 'south wind' -- not), Ponca, Biloxi, Ofo, Otoe (supposedly meaning 'lovers of sexual pleasure'), etc., etc.  Such ethnonyms are very susceptible to folk guesswork; everybody including linguists want names to "mean something", but many are lost in the mists of time.  

(Please, no responses explaining to me that such names REALLY DO mean what people say they mean.  I'm aware of all the strong beliefs in this department.)

Wish I could be more optimistic.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Bryan James Gordon
Sent: Thu 9/30/2010 2:44 AM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Re: Ocananhowan and Occaneechi
 
It's a stretch.

Given the word parts yu:xkan + ohon + hi wa, there would have to have been a
lot of metathesis (rearranging the sounds) to get to the attested form
"Ocananhowan".

My suspicions are also raised by the fact that the "Algonquian" form (which
language?) starts with a similar first two syllables. That is a hint that,
if they are from separate language families, one may be borrowed. And the
beginning of that word does look Algonquian. But the end reminds me of Creek
placenames in the Southeast, and many Creek words begin like these two words
do, too.

The case for a Tutelo source would be helped if we had any reason to believe
that certain Tutelo dialects would have dropped the "y" in "yu:xkan", or
that certain English-speakers might have heard a Tutelo "yu:xkan" as "Ocan".

Just my nine cents.

- Bryan

2010/9/30 Scott Collins <saponi360 at yahoo.com>

> Is the following correct information:
>
>  "Ocananhowan - Recorded by Smith, and later by Starchey. It has not been
> decipherable in Algonquian. This is because the word is Siouan. Its
> construction is derived from the Tutelo yu:xkan, "man," "person" + ohon,
> "many" + hi wa, "come," "gather." Its meaning: "many people gather here." We
> have seen the exact word before in Algonquian: Occaneechi, the place where
> people gather." ----- "Roanoke" by Lee Miller Pg. 258 & 259
>
>
>


From saponi360 at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  6 02:27:45 2010
From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins)
Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2010 19:27:45 -0700
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
Message-ID: <SUN.5.SEP.2010.192745.0700.>

i was wondering if anyone had reviewed this book on the Tutelo-Saponi language. 

?

Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
?
?
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tutelo-(yesanechi-etymological-lexicon/6534103


      
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From rankin at ku.edu  Mon Sep  6 14:45:47 2010
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 09:45:47 -0500
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
Message-ID: <MON.6.SEP.2010.094547.0500.>

No, your posting is the first I've heard of it.  The author has apparently collected the existing word lists for several extinct Virginia languages and published them (again).  Lulu is a vanity press, not an academic or general one.  They're asking 15 bucks for the print version and 10 for a computer file.  I think anyone interested in Tutelo would do better to buy a copy of Giulia Oliverio's doctoral dissertation from University Microfilms International.  Then they'll have a grammar plus all the collected vocabulary, including unpublished ones.  

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Scott Collins
Sent: Sun 9/5/2010 9:27 PM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
 
i was wondering if anyone had reviewed this book on the Tutelo-Saponi language. 

?

Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
?
?
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tutelo-(yesanechi-etymological-lexicon/6534103


      


From rankin at ku.edu  Mon Sep  6 21:05:08 2010
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 16:05:08 -0500
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
Message-ID: <MON.6.SEP.2010.160508.0500.>

Anyone interested in obtaining a copy of Giulia Oliverio's Tutelo grammar and dictionary can go to:  http://disexpress.umi.com/dxweb#search

Then type "A Grammar of Tutelo" in the search box at the top of the page.  You can place an order from there.  

Bob


From saponi360 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep  7 05:24:17 2010
From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2010 22:24:17 -0700
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F5BF0@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <MON.6.SEP.2010.222417.0700.>

The Oliverio dictionary is the one I have and wondered about this new one.
?
?
?
?
?



--- On Mon, 9/6/10, Rankin, Robert L <rankin at ku.edu> wrote:


From: Rankin, Robert L <rankin at ku.edu>
Subject: RE: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Date: Monday, September 6, 2010, 9:45 AM


No, your posting is the first I've heard of it.? The author has apparently collected the existing word lists for several extinct Virginia languages and published them (again).? Lulu is a vanity press, not an academic or general one.? They're asking 15 bucks for the print version and 10 for a computer file.? I think anyone interested in Tutelo would do better to buy a copy of Giulia Oliverio's doctoral dissertation from University Microfilms International.? Then they'll have a grammar plus all the collected vocabulary, including unpublished ones.? 

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Scott Collins
Sent: Sun 9/5/2010 9:27 PM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse

i was wondering if anyone had reviewed this book on the Tutelo-Saponi language. 

?

Tutelo (Yesanechi) Etymological Lexicon by William Meuse
?
?
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/tutelo-(yesanechi-etymological-lexicon/6534103


? ? ? 




      
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From saponi360 at yahoo.com  Tue Sep 14 06:49:27 2010
From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins)
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 23:49:27 -0700
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
Message-ID: <MON.13.SEP.2010.234927.0700.>

I was wondering if someone may know if "ne de wa ha" or "na da wa hey" has any similarity in the Quapaw language. I am uncertain if I'm spelling this correctly.




      
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From shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk  Tue Sep 14 09:29:48 2010
From: shokoohbanou at yahoo.co.uk (shokooh Ingham)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 09:29:48 +0000
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
In-Reply-To: <808771.88249.qm@web83507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <TUE.14.SEP.2010.092948.0000.>

It sounds a bit like Nadowey or Nadawey which I believe is Algonquian for 'foreigner', 'enemy', but that would be a long shot.? I'm sure most of you also thought of that.
Bruce

--- On Tue, 14/9/10, Scott Collins <saponi360 at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Scott Collins <saponi360 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Date: Tuesday, 14 September, 2010, 7:49

I was wondering if someone may know if "ne de wa ha" or "na da wa hey" has any similarity in the Quapaw language. I am uncertain if I'm spelling this correctly.




      


      
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From rankin at ku.edu  Tue Sep 14 20:12:54 2010
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2010 15:12:54 -0500
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
Message-ID: <TUE.14.SEP.2010.151254.0500.>

Hey Scott,

Can you give English words that roughly rhyme with these syllables?  That way I won't have to guess at the vowel sounds.

Thanks,

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Scott Collins
Sent: Tue 9/14/2010 1:49 AM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
 
I was wondering if someone may know if "ne de wa ha" or "na da wa hey" has any similarity in the Quapaw language. I am uncertain if I'm spelling this correctly.




      


From saponi360 at yahoo.com  Wed Sep 15 15:30:51 2010
From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins)
Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2010 08:30:51 -0700
Subject: Quapaw Language Question
In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F5C06@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu>
Message-ID: <WED.15.SEP.2010.083051.0700.>

These words, ne de wa ha, sound like, naw daw waw hay.?


--- On Tue, 9/14/10, Rankin, Robert L <rankin at ku.edu> wrote:


From: Rankin, Robert L <rankin at ku.edu>
Subject: RE: Quapaw Language Question
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Date: Tuesday, September 14, 2010, 3:12 PM


Hey Scott,

Can you give English words that roughly rhyme with these syllables?? That way I won't have to guess at the vowel sounds.

Thanks,

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Scott Collins
Sent: Tue 9/14/2010 1:49 AM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Quapaw Language Question

I was wondering if someone may know if "ne de wa ha" or "na da wa hey" has any similarity in the Quapaw language. I am uncertain if I'm spelling this correctly.




? ? ? 




      
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From jgoodtracks at gmail.com  Tue Sep 28 16:25:07 2010
From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 11:25:07 -0500
Subject: 2011 Siouan and Caddoan Languague ~ Linguistics Conference
Message-ID: <TUE.28.SEP.2010.112507.0500.>

2011 Siouan Languages ~ Linguistics Conference

Location:
The 2011 Siouan and Caddoan Linguistics Conference will be sponsored by the Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska at their tribal government complex, in the George Ogdon Building.  The meeting site is located five miles northwest of White Cloud, KS.  The address is: 
 3345 Thrasher Rd. White Cloud, KS 66094.  The Ogdon building houses many old family photos, and displays various family personal effects, such as beadwork, old dance clothes, and other interesting artifacts.

You may find the tribe's website here:   http://www.casinowhitecloud.org/iowatribe.html.  The web site has many photos of the tribal area, offices and motel accommodations.


Dates:  
Wens thru Sat., June 15th thru 18th, 2011. 
>> [NOTE:  The exact length of the conference will depend on the number of  presentations (papers) offered.  As in previous years, the formal presentations Siouan Languages and Comparative Linguistics have been given at the beginning days of the Conference, while the community (applied linguistics) presentations follow towards the end.  The actual conclusion of the conference will be determined by the total number of presentations, demonstrations, roundtables, etc.].


Lodging:
The Iowa Tribe has two separate locations for accommodations.  There is the Eagle Nest Motel, at the Squaw Creek truck stop, and four (4) individual cabins near the White Cloud Casino and the Tribal complex on Thrasher Road.  
The Tribal business will meet in October and conference group rates will be discussed.  More information is anticipated by October 7th, 2010.  However, the usual rates for the cabins is $60/nightly, and at the Eagle Nest Motel, $49.95 with a $7 charge for each additional person.

The cabins and convenience store & gas stop is located at 2314  330th St., 66094  (785 595 3430 Xtn.250).  The cabins sleep two, with an additional folding bed available as needed. 
The 23 unit Eagle Nest Motel is located on I-29, Hywy #159 at the Rulo (Nebr.) exit #79.  That would be 5miles South of Mound City, MO, three (3) miles from the Squaw Creek Wild Life Refuge,  and about 20 miles NE of the White Cloud Casino.  In the past, there had been a shuttle service available between the motel and the White Cloud Casino, however, it will need to be confirmed if it is still available, and if so, at what times of the day.  Reservations can be made at:  660 442 3267 or 86 994 1320.    

Meals and short orders are served at the Casino, with a $9 lunch buffet between 11am to 2pm.  Recently, the Casino began a morning breakfast short order and/ or biscuits and gravy between 7am to 10am.
The Eagle Nest Motel features a full restaurant and salad bar open to serve breakfast, lunch, dinner, and late night snacks.  A menu and prices can be viewed at their website:   http://www.casinowhitecloud.org/eaglesnest.html. 


Transportation:
>> The nearest major airport is Kansas City (MO)  -- about 1.5 hours drive from there to White Cloud.  The next closest airports are probably Lincoln or Omaha (NE), which are more than a 2 hours drive.
>> For those driving, use Map Quest, Google Maps, or any related directional device.

>>From the Look Out high point in White Cloud, one can easily see the states of Nebraska, Missouri and Iowa, all previous homelands of the Ioway People. 

If you should need further information, contact myself, or my assistant, Saul Schwartz (614 519 6964).  For those, who plan on a presentation, you may begin to let me know the title for scheduling a time slot.  Generally, 20 minutes is allowed for any presentation followed by an additional 10 minutes for questions and commentary.  Of course, this typical schedule may be adjusted as needed, if informed ahead of time.  

Usually there has been 20 to 30 (more or less) persons attending the conference, and thus, presenters should plan on bringing an equal number of copies of their handouts, as local commercial copy services are located 21 miles distant in the town of Hiawatha, KS, southwest of the conference site.  Also, audio and visual aide equipment will need to be arranged and furnished by the presenters.
  
White Cloud is located in the extreme Northeast corner of Kansas State, 10 miles south of Rulo, NE, 20 miles NW of Troy, KS and and 21 miles NE of Hiawatha, KS.  The Missouri Sac (& Fox) tribal area is directly 20 miles west of the Iowa Tribal Complex.  The Sac Casino and buffet is located on highway #75.  The old Ioway & Sac Mission School is located 11 miles South of White Cloud near the town of Highland.  The Kickapoo Tribe of Kansas and Casino buffet is located approximately 30 miles Southwest of the Iowa Tribal Complex.  Their tribal school is located somewhat closer at Powhatten, KS, although they may not have any summer activities in progress at the time of the Conference.  The Prairie Band Potawatomi Reservation, Casino buffet and Tribal complex is located by Mayetta, KS on hywy #75, approximately 80 miles from White Cloud or 30 miles north of Topeka, KS.   It is possible to arrange a visit to the White Cloud museum housed in the former two story school house in town if there is a group interest. 

Jimm G. Goodtracks
B?xoje Jiw?re Language Program
POBox 122
White Cloud, Kansas 66094
785 595 3335 (home)
785 979 2015 (cell)

R?re h?nwegi ich^? ir?grat^a je?
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From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu  Tue Sep 28 20:52:18 2010
From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 15:52:18 -0500
Subject: 2011 Siouan and Caddoan Languague ~ Linguistics Conference
In-Reply-To: <53C8A8E79B0146ACA0F68195B8C4CD1C@JGHP>
Message-ID: <TUE.28.SEP.2010.155218.0500.>

Aho wikHage Jimm,

Thanks for posting the general information for the upcoming SACC to be 
held in your neck of the woods.

What is the deadline for submitting abstracts for paper presentations?

WibthahoN

Uthixide


Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology
and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies)
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0368

http://omahalanguage.unl.edu
http://omahaponca.unl.edu
Phone 402-472-3455
FAX: 402-472-9642
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From jgoodtracks at gmail.com  Tue Sep 28 22:17:45 2010
From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 17:17:45 -0500
Subject: Fw: 2011 Siouan and Caddoan Languague ~ Linguistics Conference
Message-ID: <TUE.28.SEP.2010.171745.0500.>

Mark:
I believe that is an excellent question, and thanks for sending it along.
Last year, it seemed that the deadline was prolonged to the ultimate days to the dislike of the many, and to the confusion of our group from here.  I am thinking that May 1st, 2011 should be the last day to offer an abstract for a paper presentation so  a schedule can be worked out.  This is necessary in order to determine for the many, the conclusion of the conference, and for everyone's itinerary to schedule a return home by car, boat or airplane.  If there is an over whelming majority opinion to move that May 1st deadline closer, then we can do that too.
jimm   

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Mark J Awakuni-Swetland 
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU 
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 3:52 PM
Subject: Re: 2011 Siouan and Caddoan Languague ~ Linguistics Conference


Aho wikHage Jimm, 

Thanks for posting the general information for the upcoming SACC to be held in your neck of the woods. 

What is the deadline for submitting abstracts for paper presentations? 

WibthahoN 

Uthixide 


Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Anthropology
and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies)
University of Nebraska
Lincoln, NE 68588-0368

http://omahalanguage.unl.edu
http://omahaponca.unl.edu
Phone 402-472-3455
FAX: 402-472-9642
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From saponi360 at yahoo.com  Thu Sep 30 07:12:08 2010
From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:12:08 -0700
Subject: Ocananhowan and Occaneechi
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.001208.0700.>

Is the following correct information:
?
?"Ocananhowan - Recorded by Smith, and later by Starchey. It has not been decipherable in Algonquian. This is because the word is Siouan. Its construction is derived from the Tutelo yu:xkan, "man," "person" + ohon, "many" + hi wa, "come," "gather."?Its meaning: "many people gather here." We have seen the exact word before in Algonquian: Occaneechi, the place where people gather."?----- "Roanoke" by Lee Miller Pg. 258?& 259?




      
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From linguista at gmail.com  Thu Sep 30 07:44:38 2010
From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan James Gordon)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 00:44:38 -0700
Subject: Ocananhowan and Occaneechi
In-Reply-To: <152600.59574.qm@web83506.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.004438.0700.>

It's a stretch.

Given the word parts yu:xkan + ohon + hi wa, there would have to have been a
lot of metathesis (rearranging the sounds) to get to the attested form
"Ocananhowan".

My suspicions are also raised by the fact that the "Algonquian" form (which
language?) starts with a similar first two syllables. That is a hint that,
if they are from separate language families, one may be borrowed. And the
beginning of that word does look Algonquian. But the end reminds me of Creek
placenames in the Southeast, and many Creek words begin like these two words
do, too.

The case for a Tutelo source would be helped if we had any reason to believe
that certain Tutelo dialects would have dropped the "y" in "yu:xkan", or
that certain English-speakers might have heard a Tutelo "yu:xkan" as "Ocan".

Just my nine cents.

- Bryan

2010/9/30 Scott Collins <saponi360 at yahoo.com>

> Is the following correct information:
>
>  "Ocananhowan - Recorded by Smith, and later by Starchey. It has not been
> decipherable in Algonquian. This is because the word is Siouan. Its
> construction is derived from the Tutelo yu:xkan, "man," "person" + ohon,
> "many" + hi wa, "come," "gather." Its meaning: "many people gather here." We
> have seen the exact word before in Algonquian: Occaneechi, the place where
> people gather." ----- "Roanoke" by Lee Miller Pg. 258 & 259
>
>
>
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From jgoodtracks at gmail.com  Thu Sep 30 13:48:41 2010
From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:48:41 -0500
Subject: Hochank Teaching Materials Vol. 1 & 2
In-Reply-To: <CE067C1C585E274CB996CF68197DC7120B7517604E@SDSU-MBX.jacks.local>
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.084841.0500.>

Thank You, Kathleen, for bringing up the need for Conference registration fee to cover refreshments, building clean up fee, etc.  A $20 registration fee should cover all such expenses for refreshments, coffee, tea, juices, disposable cups, etc.  The fee will be waved for any community people who wish to attend be are present, but are short on funds.  As such, the fee will cover the cost of hospitality to whosoever wishes to be present for part or all of the anticipated presentations.

Please send the registration fee to the:
 
2011 White Cloud Siouan Languages ~ Linguistics Conference
via:  Jimm G. Goodtracks, Host
B?xoje Jiw?re Language Program
1510 Wisconsin St.; POBox 122
White Cloud, Kansas 66094

Feel free to present any questions and commentaries to either myself or 
Saul Schwartz, Conference Facilitator  

 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Danker, Kathleen" <Kathleen.Danker at SDSTATE.EDU>
To: "Jimm G. GoodTracks" <jgoodtracks at gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 9:05 PM
Subject: RE: Hochank Teaching Materials Vol. 1 & 2


Hi, Jimm. I have another question. Is there a registration fee for the conference?

K.D.
________________________________________
>
> Jimm G. Goodtracks
> B?xoje Jiw?re Language Program
> POBox 122
> White Cloud, Kansas 66094
> 785 595 3335
> R?re h?nwegi ich^? ir?grat^a je?
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From jgoodtracks at gmail.com  Thu Sep 30 16:32:59 2010
From: jgoodtracks at gmail.com (Jimm GoodTracks)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:32:59 -0500
Subject: SACC
In-Reply-To: <OFE1C66268.125AE5A3-ON862577AD.0057BBA2-862577AD.00581673@unl.edu>
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.113259.0500.>

Mark:
I have just spoken with a member of the Executive Committee (Tribal Council).  I was told that the use of the George Ogdon Building will be without charge, and that includes full use of the kitchen area, the coffee urn and whatever supplies are available (coffee, tea, sugar, etc.).  Of course there is no parking permits...it's rural area.  So beyond the costs of ice, refreshments, fruit, donuts and Danish pastry, we may realize a return on the $20 Conference fee during the week to those who pay it.

Also, I confirmed that the Tribe still has a 6 passenger (sitting comfortably) shuttle van between the Eagle Nest Motel and the Casino/ Conference site.  They will arrange a convenient time of transport in the mornings and late afternoons as per the wishes of those who would like to leave their cars at the Motel, and leave the driving to the Tribal chauffeur, to take advantage of the scenic offerings of the Missouri River basin.  However, I would think it best, to have a commitment of a minimum of 6 (six) persons (attending Conference) to alert the driver, as there may be Casino guests who would also like the shuttle ride and as such, they would need to arrange the latter's transport at a different time schedule.  There is no charge for this service.

Kathleen Danker, South Dakota State University, Brookings, SD is the first to offer an abstract of her presentation on:

Title: What's New with the Transcriptions and Translations of the Trickster Tales of Felix White, Sr.?

This presentation provides an update for Siouan linguists and teachers of Native American languages on my long-term project of recording, transcribing, annotating, translating into English verse, and publishing a book of the Hochank Trickster narratives of the late Felix White, Sr., of Winnebago, Nebraska. Although I have not presented a paper on this project since the 1990s, I have continued to work on it and have completed preliminary versions of the fourteen stories that will comprise "The Foolish One: Trickster Narrative of Felix White, Sr."  I have typed the transcriptions of these tales using IT (Interlinear Text) 1.01r7 annotation software which facilitates multiple-line transitions from Hochank phonemes to morphemes to literal English translations. In order to make this material a more useful tool for students learning how to speak the Hochank language, I am currently revising the top lines of my transcriptions to more accurately represent the actual pronunciations, contractions, and accent patterns of Mr. White's speech as preserved on audio tapes. For this revision, I am also checking over my annotations and translations for consistency and accuracy and making sure that the line numbers of the annotated transcriptions match up with those of my free translations into English verse. So far, I have finished revising three stories.

I appreciate this early arrival to begin an agenda for the Conference, and I will send to forthcoming abstracts to the Siouan List and the Conference List (those who are registered for Conference, but not on the "official" Siouan list).   In this way, we all will have an idea of the developing scheduling of presentations and events.


Jimm G. Goodtracks
B?xoje Jiw?re Language Program
POBox 122
White Cloud, Kansas 66094
785 595 3335 (home)
785 979 2015 (cell)

R?re h?nwegi ich^? ir?grat^a je?


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Mark J Awakuni-Swetland 
  To: jgoodtracks at gmail.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 11:02 AM
  Subject: SACC


  Aho Jimm. 

  Glad to hear about the abstract due date. Thanks. I will start thinking about possible presentations. 

  I also wanted to re-affirm my offer to assist in any way possible in the upcoming SACC gathering at White Cloud. 

  As we get closer to the day I will bring up the subject with my Omaha speakers here at UNL. 

  Depending upon my available funds, I would like to be able to offer to cover their lodging/meals, at least, if they wanted to attend the conference. 

  I expect that Auntie Vida and some of her team will plan to attend since White Cloud is reasonably close to Macy. 

  Best, 
  Mark 


  Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D.
  Associate Professor of Anthropology
  and Ethnic Studies (Native American Studies)
  University of Nebraska
  Lincoln, NE 68588-0368

  http://omahalanguage.unl.edu
  http://omahaponca.unl.edu
  Phone 402-472-3455
  FAX: 402-472-9642
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From rankin at ku.edu  Thu Sep 30 20:40:06 2010
From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L)
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 15:40:06 -0500
Subject: Ocananhowan and Occaneechi
Message-ID: <THU.30.SEP.2010.154006.0500.>

I'd have to agree.  Add to this the fact that many tribal names have no identifiable historical meaning and are "interpreted" locally by folk etymology.  Many of these folk interpretations even become "official".  These include Baxoje 'Ioway' (supposedly meaning an unlikely "dusty noses" or "gray snow", take your pick), Kansa (supposedly meaning 'south wind' -- not), Ponca, Biloxi, Ofo, Otoe (supposedly meaning 'lovers of sexual pleasure'), etc., etc.  Such ethnonyms are very susceptible to folk guesswork; everybody including linguists want names to "mean something", but many are lost in the mists of time.  

(Please, no responses explaining to me that such names REALLY DO mean what people say they mean.  I'm aware of all the strong beliefs in this department.)

Wish I could be more optimistic.

Bob


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of Bryan James Gordon
Sent: Thu 9/30/2010 2:44 AM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Re: Ocananhowan and Occaneechi
 
It's a stretch.

Given the word parts yu:xkan + ohon + hi wa, there would have to have been a
lot of metathesis (rearranging the sounds) to get to the attested form
"Ocananhowan".

My suspicions are also raised by the fact that the "Algonquian" form (which
language?) starts with a similar first two syllables. That is a hint that,
if they are from separate language families, one may be borrowed. And the
beginning of that word does look Algonquian. But the end reminds me of Creek
placenames in the Southeast, and many Creek words begin like these two words
do, too.

The case for a Tutelo source would be helped if we had any reason to believe
that certain Tutelo dialects would have dropped the "y" in "yu:xkan", or
that certain English-speakers might have heard a Tutelo "yu:xkan" as "Ocan".

Just my nine cents.

- Bryan

2010/9/30 Scott Collins <saponi360 at yahoo.com>

> Is the following correct information:
>
>  "Ocananhowan - Recorded by Smith, and later by Starchey. It has not been
> decipherable in Algonquian. This is because the word is Siouan. Its
> construction is derived from the Tutelo yu:xkan, "man," "person" + ohon,
> "many" + hi wa, "come," "gather." Its meaning: "many people gather here." We
> have seen the exact word before in Algonquian: Occaneechi, the place where
> people gather." ----- "Roanoke" by Lee Miller Pg. 258 & 259
>
>
>