Name for the Sioux.

[Scott Collins]

That does help and thank you for explaining the newer material.
 
Another question that I have regarding the name (Nah)yssan/Yesa/Yesan/Yesang is whether or not it may be the same word as the Lakota Oyasin as in Mitakuye Oyasin?
 
Is it possible that a dialect difference would produce a nasal sound at the begining of the Nah-yssan? 
 
 
 
 


Scott P. Collins
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR

Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle

“Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”

"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."

--- On Wed, 1/26/11, Rankin, Robert L <rankin at ku.edu> wrote:


From: Rankin, Robert L <rankin at ku.edu>
Subject: Name for the Sioux.
To: "siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU" <siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU>
Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 4:51 PM


The source of the term for "Sioux" has been shown to be something other than the Swanton explanation in terms of 'adder/enemy'.  It is apparently derived from the Ottawa verb that means 'those who speak another language'.  Just to be certain, I queried Ives Goddard, probably the most senior Algonquianist and recently retired from the Smithsonian.  He replies:  "I first published on "Sioux" in the AES Naming Systems volume (1984).  Doug Parks gives a very full presentation of the facts in the synonymy in (the new) Handbook or North American Indians, vol. 13(2):749.  See the volume bibliography for my reference."

"Although the longer form of the word seems to have been specifically Ottawa within Ojibwean, it has a cognate in Arapaho, which implies some antiquity."

"Siebert's idea that the meaning was *originally* 'massasauga rattlesnake' is shown to be impossible by the fact that all the Algonquian words (for both the tribe and snake meanings) have /tow/ (or its reflex), not /taw/ as his etymology requires, except for Menominee (which has /a/ for expected /o/ in a number of words, especially after dentals) and one isolated transcription of modern Miami-Illinois by Gatschet (Costa in Papers of 31st Algonquian Conf., 2000, pp. 36-37, correcting Voegelin's misreading with <taw> of Dunn's Miami form with <tow>).  It is interesting that Illinois <nata8a8e8a> 'timber rattlesnake' (the other species) could have an etymology like the one that Siebert proposed (but probably with /nataw-/ 'seek', not /na:t-/ 'go to get'), but this obviously does not help his specific argument."

"The verb for 'to speak a foreign language' which I postulated can now be cited: Illinois has <nata8eta> 'etranger', the participle ('one who ...') of this (Kaskaskia Illinois-to-French Dictionary, ed. Carl Masthay, 2002, p. 198)."

The character spelled with the "8" was used by the French to render the sound of W.  Given this source, plus the fact that the longer form of (Nah)yssan is spelled out "yesan" by Hale, it seems unlikely that this term for the Tutelo is at all related to the Algonquian term for the Sioux (whichever its source).

I hope this helps.

Bob

________________________________
From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 2:05 AM
To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU
Subject: Sioux Name


"Sioux is transparently a derivation of the same Algonkian root Nadouek. Swanton reports that Sioux is an abbreviation of Nadouessioux, which appears to be a French corruption of Nadowe-is-iw, which the French picked up from the Chippewa, signifying “Adders” and, by extension, “enemies.” (5)

(5) John R. Swanton, The Indian Tribes of North America (Washington, D.C.:Smithsonian Institution Press, 1968), 280-281.

The above from Dr. Heriberto Airy Dixon, pg. 66 of the American Indian Culture and Research Journal, “A Saponi by Any Other Name Is Still a Siouan”

Is it possible that Nahyssan is some how connected to the above mentioned words?

I had mentioned before that my Great Grandmother had a bedtime prayer in which she said neda wa ha. It was suggested that it may mean enemy. I am starting to wonder if the term is actually of Siouan derivation that was picked up by the Algonquins at an early date, is that possible?

Is a variant form of Nahyssan/Nahyssn possibly Niasont or Honiasont.
Is it possible that the the entire Sioaun speaking people may have at one time been represented by the Serpent much like the Wakeni clan or the Manahoac/Mahock town of Whonkentia?

The Serpent was representative of the Occaneechi and the Catawba.

Scott P. Collins
----------------------------------------------------------------------
WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR

Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle

“Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.”

"The greater the denial the greater the awakening."





      
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