From rankin at ku.edu Sun May 1 22:13:44 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 22:13:44 +0000 Subject: Reminder! Message-ID: Dear all, Today is the deadline for abstracts of papers to be given at the Siouan and Caddoan Linguistics Conference at White Cloud, KS in June. So if you haven't done so, be sure and get yours in today to sschwart at princeton.edu. Bob From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Tue May 3 16:11:48 2011 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:11:48 -0500 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity Message-ID: http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/nu/opd.03.005.09c.jpg Aloha All, Catherine located another Dorsey orthographic oddity. The image link is above. Can anyone interpret the diacritic under the /u/ in the cognates? It appears to have two under dots. There are two samples of it. Catherine reported finding a /u/ with what appears to be an under tilde elsewhere. We are unsure if the two under dots are just a poorly scribed tilde. Suggestions? Many thanks Mark Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Anthropology & Ethnic Studies Native American Studies Program Liaison University of Nebraska Department of Anthropology 841 Oldfather Hall Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu http://omahaponca.unl.edu Phone 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linguista at gmail.com Tue May 3 16:26:24 2011 From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan James Gordon) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 09:26:24 -0700 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The /u/ is fronted in Kansa and Osage, so I reckon Dorsey meant for that to be a normal German umlaut, and forgot which side of the vowel to put it on. - Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lcumberl at indiana.edu Tue May 3 17:32:46 2011 From: lcumberl at indiana.edu (Cumberland, Linda A) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:32:46 -0400 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark and Catherine, The Dorsey slip for the Kaw word that corresponds to the example you sent is "du", with no marking under the vowel. In that entry he also gives cross-references to dule and du-ska, also with no diacritic above or below the u. (the contemporary form is fully rounded "do"). However, the Os. example at the bottom of the slip is "tu" with an x under the 't' and a perfectly clear tilde under the 'u'. Since your mystery diacritic occurs in a Kaw reference, and our slip for that word has no marking under the Kaw word but a tilde under the OS word, I'd guess that you are dealing with a tilde which, as Brian notes, probably indicates the fronting of u in Osage and Kanza. I'd be surprised if Dorsey didn't know where to place an umlaut, so my money's on a "poorly scribed tilde". Linda Quoting Mark J Awakuni-Swetland : > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/nu/opd.03.005.09c.jpg > > > Aloha All, > > Catherine located another Dorsey orthographic oddity. The image link is > above. > > Can anyone interpret the diacritic under the /u/ in the cognates? > > It appears to have two under dots. > > There are two samples of it. > > Catherine reported finding a /u/ with what appears to be an under tilde > elsewhere. > > We are unsure if the two under dots are just a poorly scribed tilde. > > Suggestions? > > Many thanks > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Anthropology & Ethnic Studies > Native American Studies Program Liaison > University of Nebraska > Department of Anthropology > 841 Oldfather Hall > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu Tue May 3 17:47:39 2011 From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 12:47:39 -0500 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity In-Reply-To: <20110503133246.d5dmlp9yg48004sc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Dorsey does indeed know where an umlaut belongs :-) He uses umlaut over u pretty often, and it's clear it indicates a front rounded vowel. He uses (clearly written) tilde both above and below u, and I'm not sure what it indicates. I've not seen what looks like an umlaut below a letter except in this example. If it IS "poorly scribed tilde" (or one that got partly erased or something) what sound would that mean? Catherine >>> "Cumberland, Linda A" 5/3/2011 12:32 PM >>> Mark and Catherine, The Dorsey slip for the Kaw word that corresponds to the example you sent is "du", with no marking under the vowel. In that entry he also gives cross-references to dule and du-ska, also with no diacritic above or below the u. (the contemporary form is fully rounded "do"). However, the Os. example at the bottom of the slip is "tu" with an x under the 't' and a perfectly clear tilde under the 'u'. Since your mystery diacritic occurs in a Kaw reference, and our slip for that word has no marking under the Kaw word but a tilde under the OS word, I'd guess that you are dealing with a tilde which, as Brian notes, probably indicates the fronting of u in Osage and Kanza. I'd be surprised if Dorsey didn't know where to place an umlaut, so my money's on a "poorly scribed tilde". Linda Quoting Mark J Awakuni-Swetland : > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/nu/opd.03.005.09c.jpg > > > Aloha All, > > Catherine located another Dorsey orthographic oddity. The image link is > above. > > Can anyone interpret the diacritic under the /u/ in the cognates? > > It appears to have two under dots. > > There are two samples of it. > > Catherine reported finding a /u/ with what appears to be an under tilde > elsewhere. > > We are unsure if the two under dots are just a poorly scribed tilde. > > Suggestions? > > Many thanks > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Anthropology & Ethnic Studies > Native American Studies Program Liaison > University of Nebraska > Department of Anthropology > 841 Oldfather Hall > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Tue May 3 19:15:44 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 19:15:44 +0000 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity In-Reply-To: <4DBFF96B.6215.008E.1@wsc.edu> Message-ID: Everybody is partly right. I suspect the symbol is probably a tilde, given that he also wrote it with an Osage subscript tilde in the identical entry in Kansa as per Linda's observation. But the subscript tilde signifies *lowering* rather than fronting. As Catherine points out, he uses a regular Umlaut for fronting. It has to be lowering because the reflexes of Proto-Siouan *o never front. In Dhegiha they always raise to "u" in Dorsey's transcription. He used the "u" symbol in Quapaw, Osage and Kaw also even though it is generally [o] in those languages except next to velars, where you do hear [u]. The Osage symbol he's using (assuming it's a sub-posed tilde) would signal an open or lowered "u", as in 'pull' or 'put'. If you wanted to "normalize" it, you could use whatever symbol you're using for the phoneme that represents the o~u sound (local reflexes of *o). I use /o/ in KS, OS and QU. John Koontz sticks to /u/ in OM and PO. [u] and [o] do not contrast in any Dhegiha language; both come from *o. The umlauted u" only develops in Kaw and Osage from Proto-Siouan *u (never *o). This development also took place in Omaha, Ponca and Quapaw, but the front rounded vowel unrounded to [i] everywhere in all three languages (and sporadically in Kaw and Osage). Best, Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Catherine Rudin [CaRudin1 at wsc.edu] Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:47 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Re: JOD orthographic oddity Dorsey does indeed know where an umlaut belongs :-) He uses umlaut over u pretty often, and it's clear it indicates a front rounded vowel. He uses (clearly written) tilde both above and below u, and I'm not sure what it indicates. I've not seen what looks like an umlaut below a letter except in this example. If it IS "poorly scribed tilde" (or one that got partly erased or something) what sound would that mean? Catherine >>> "Cumberland, Linda A" 5/3/2011 12:32 PM >>> Mark and Catherine, The Dorsey slip for the Kaw word that corresponds to the example you sent is "du", with no marking under the vowel. In that entry he also gives cross-references to dule and du-ska, also with no diacritic above or below the u. (the contemporary form is fully rounded "do"). However, the Os. example at the bottom of the slip is "tu" with an x under the 't' and a perfectly clear tilde under the 'u'. Since your mystery diacritic occurs in a Kaw reference, and our slip for that word has no marking under the Kaw word but a tilde under the OS word, I'd guess that you are dealing with a tilde which, as Brian notes, probably indicates the fronting of u in Osage and Kanza. I'd be surprised if Dorsey didn't know where to place an umlaut, so my money's on a "poorly scribed tilde". Linda Quoting Mark J Awakuni-Swetland : > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/nu/opd.03.005.09c.jpg > > > Aloha All, > > Catherine located another Dorsey orthographic oddity. The image link is > above. > > Can anyone interpret the diacritic under the /u/ in the cognates? > > It appears to have two under dots. > > There are two samples of it. > > Catherine reported finding a /u/ with what appears to be an under tilde > elsewhere. > > We are unsure if the two under dots are just a poorly scribed tilde. > > Suggestions? > > Many thanks > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Anthropology & Ethnic Studies > Native American Studies Program Liaison > University of Nebraska > Department of Anthropology > 841 Oldfather Hall > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 From george.wilmes at gmail.com Tue May 3 21:31:25 2011 From: george.wilmes at gmail.com (George Wilmes) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:31:25 -0500 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark (and others), I am not qualified to speak about Dorsey or the languages in question, but I can say: 1. Those sure look like dots to me! 2. According to the Unicode standard (which I realize came much later!), two dots (diaeresis) below means "IPA: breathy voice or murmur". What I don't know is what two dots below might have meant in Dorsey's time. George On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Mark J Awakuni-Swetland wrote: > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/nu/opd.03.005.09c.jpg > > > Aloha All, > > Catherine located another Dorsey orthographic oddity. The image link is > above. > > Can anyone interpret the diacritic under the /u/ in the cognates? > > It appears to have two under dots. > > There are two samples of it. > > Catherine reported finding a /u/ with what appears to be an under tilde > elsewhere. > > We are unsure if the two under dots are just a poorly scribed tilde. > > Suggestions? > > Many thanks > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Anthropology & Ethnic Studies > Native American Studies Program Liaison > University of Nebraska > Department of Anthropology > 841 Oldfather Hall > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 From saponi360 at yahoo.com Wed May 4 06:13:33 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 23:13:33 -0700 Subject: Saponi Language Questions Message-ID: I'm looking for the word for “thoughly” which I think may be pi-api-ipi. I'm also looking for the words “annointed” and “oil”. So far I’m thinking masa-pa for “annointed” . The word for grease in Ofo is itchi and in Biloxi it is tcin. I'm thinking that the word would be tche in Saponi or something like this. Any ideas?           Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lcumberl at indiana.edu Wed May 4 15:21:41 2011 From: lcumberl at indiana.edu (Cumberland, Linda A) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 11:21:41 -0400 Subject: Saponi Language Questions In-Reply-To: <529871.37343.qm@web83504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Scott, You might contact Marty Richardson at the Haliwa-Saponi Tribe. He has been working on the language on and off for the past decade in his capacity as Director of Planning and Development, teaching and developing word lists and other materials. I don't know if he's on the Siouan list, so here's his email address in case he isn't. mrichardson at haliwa-saponi.com Linda Quoting Scott Collins : > I'm looking for the word for ?thoughly? which I think may be pi-api-ipi. > I'm also looking for the words ?annointed? and ?oil?. > So far I?m thinking masa-pa for ?annointed? . The word for grease in > Ofo is itchi and in Biloxi it is tcin. I'm thinking that the word > would be tche in Saponi or something like this. Any ideas? > >   >   >   >   >   > Scott P. Collins > From rankin at ku.edu Wed May 4 15:29:38 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 15:29:38 +0000 Subject: Saponi Language Questions In-Reply-To: <529871.37343.qm@web83504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Did you mean 'thoroughly'?? Little typing problem there. :-) The tcin/itci word there is also the term for 'fat'. tutelo should be nearly the same: Ichiⁿ or chiⁿ. Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:13 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Saponi Language Questions I'm looking for the word for “thoughly” which I think may be pi-api-ipi. I'm also looking for the words “annointed” and “oil”. So far I’m thinking masa-pa for “annointed” . The word for grease in Ofo is itchi and in Biloxi it is tcin. I'm thinking that the word would be tche in Saponi or something like this. Any ideas? Scott P. Collins From saponi360 at yahoo.com Thu May 5 05:41:56 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 22:41:56 -0700 Subject: Saponi Language Questions In-Reply-To: <5E87B4AFA471B543884CD3128A7C8CC603EE94@EXCH10-MBX-05.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: Thank you Dr. Rankin and Dr. Cumberland.   "Thoroughly" was the word instead of "thoughly", lol. I should have thoroughly inspected my typing of the word.   The word for fat in Tutelo-Saponi then is chi. (chin) Is it possible that by adding the -ici at the end that it would render it as oil, like saying the little parts of the fat, i.e. oil. No puns intended.   Scott P. Collins   --- On Wed, 5/4/11, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Saponi Language Questions To: "siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU" Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 10:29 AM Did you mean 'thoroughly'??  Little typing problem there.  :-) The tcin/itci word there is also the term for 'fat'.  tutelo should be nearly the same:  Ichiⁿ or chiⁿ. Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:13 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Saponi Language Questions I'm looking for the word for “thoughly” which I think may be pi-api-ipi. I'm also looking for the words “annointed” and “oil”. So far I’m thinking masa-pa for “annointed” . The word for grease in Ofo is itchi and in Biloxi it is tcin. I'm thinking that the word would be tche in Saponi or something like this. Any ideas? Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Thu May 5 18:24:02 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 18:24:02 +0000 Subject: Saponi Language Questions In-Reply-To: <325748.46673.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Afraid I can't help much with 'thoroughly'. Maybe 'whole' or 'all' would be as close as you could come? 'To oil' in Kaw and other Dhegiha languages contains the root /gli/ 'to shine'. So /wee(g)li/ is 'what they shine with' or 'what they make it shine with'. Something like that could represent your 'annoint'. /chiⁿ/ would be your 'oil'. bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 12:41 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Saponi Language Questions Thank you Dr. Rankin and Dr. Cumberland. "Thoroughly" was the word instead of "thoughly", lol. I should have thoroughly inspected my typing of the word. The word for fat in Tutelo-Saponi then is chi. (chin) Is it possible that by adding the -ici at the end that it would render it as oil, like saying the little parts of the fat, i.e. oil. No puns intended. Scott P. Collins --- On Wed, 5/4/11, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Saponi Language Questions To: "siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU" Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 10:29 AM Did you mean 'thoroughly'?? Little typing problem there. :-) The tcin/itci word there is also the term for 'fat'. tutelo should be nearly the same: Ichiⁿ or chiⁿ. Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:13 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Saponi Language Questions I'm looking for the word for “thoughly” which I think may be pi-api-ipi. I'm also looking for the words “annointed” and “oil”. So far I’m thinking masa-pa for “annointed” . The word for grease in Ofo is itchi and in Biloxi it is tcin. I'm thinking that the word would be tche in Saponi or something like this. Any ideas? Scott P. Collins From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Thu May 5 19:14:57 2011 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:14:57 -0500 Subject: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE Message-ID: Aloha All, Saul requested that I forward this on to the SiouanList. Regards, Mark Awakuni-Swetland Final Schedule Annual Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 White Cloud, Kansas The Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska will be making the following equipment and technologies available on site to presenters: -overhead projector -computer projector (for PowerPoint, etc.) -projection screen -wireless internet -podium and microphones Presenters are encouraged to bring their own copies of handouts since we will not have access to a copy machine. Please note that the conference dates are Thursday, June 16th, to Saturday, June 18th. There will be no presentations on Wednesday, June 15th, as initially advertised. Please double check your travel and lodging reservations in light of the finalized conference dates. Looking forward to seeing everyone at the conference! Sincerely, Jimm Goodtracks and Saul Schwartz sschwart at princeton dot edu jgoodtracks at gmail dot com 785-595-3335 31st Annual Siouan & Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska George Ogdon Building 3345 Thrasher Road White Cloud, Kansas 66094 Thursday, June 16th, 2011 9:00-9:30: George Wilmes, “Mandan Pronominal Prefixes: Arguments or Agreement Markers?” 9:30-10:00: Silvana Karin Torres, “Rethinking the Mandan Verbal Suffix Complex (Focus suffixes: iši, rąš, eška)”10:00-10:30: Zachary N. Gordon, “The Mandan Right Periphery: A Syntactic Examination of Evidentials and Force Markers”10:30-11:00: Morning Break 11:00-11:30: David Kaufman, “Being Assertive in Biloxi”11:30-12:00: Justin T. McBride, “Exploring the Placement of Negation in the Post-Verbal Template of Kansa” 12:00-1:30: Lunch 1:30-2:00: John P. Boyle, “Hidatsa Sentence Connectives: Form and Function” 2:00-2:30: Alexandrina Geanina Danis, “The Semantics of háki and hakték as Sentence Connectives in Mandan” 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break 3:00-3:30: Rueben I. Kent, “Language of the Traditional Cedar Flute” 3:30-4:00: John Clarkson, “NP Coordination in Mandan” 4:00-4:30: Catherine Rudin, “Word or Phrase? Criteria for Omaha-Ponca Part of Speech Labels” Thursday, June 16, 7:00pm: Roundtable discussion on “Revival of the Wiki (CSG Project)” at the Eagle’s Nest Motel facilities. Participants may wish to dine together at the Motel. Friday, June 17th, 2011 9:00-9:30: Linda Cumberland and Kira Matthews, “Report on the Progress of the Kanza Language Dictionary Project” 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland and Catherine Rudin, “Keeping the Shiny Side Up and the Greasy Side Down: A Look Under the Hood of the Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary Database” 10:00-10:30: Rory Larson, “‘Ttappuska’: A 19th Century Acculturation Term” 10:30-11:00: Morning Break 11:00-11:30: Randolph Graczyk, “Current State of the Crow Language” 11:30-12:00: Robert L. Rankin, “Who were the Tomahitans?” 12:00-1:30: Lunch 1:30-2:00: Tania D. Moaton, “Mandan Narrative Discourse and the Evaluative Identity of Old Man Coyote” 2:00-2:30: Kathleen Danker, “What’s New with the Transcriptions and Translations of the Trickster Tales of Felix White, Sr.?” 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break 3:00-3:30: Iren Hartmann, “Valency and Verb Classes in Hoocąk”3:30-4:00: Mary Marino, “The Stoney Manuscripts of Father Valentin Vegreville, O.M.I”Friday, June 17, 6:00pm: Everyone invited to share an evening of food and fellowship at the home of Jimm Goodtracks, 1510 Wisconsin St, White Cloud, KS (785-595-3335). Tamales and chili furnished. BYOB & desserts. Saturday, June 18th, 2011 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland, “Monshtínge: A ‘Rabbit’ of a Different Color” 10:00-10:30: Jimm Goodtracks, “Update on the Ioway, Otoe-Missouria Dictionary Project and Language Nest” 10:30-11:00: Jill D. Greer, “A Prayer for the Night: A Gift from the Late Reverend Arthur Lightfoot” -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Fri May 6 02:36:14 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:36:14 -0700 Subject: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I noticed the topic “Who were the Tomahitans?” scheduled for Dr. Rankin. I'd love to read that sometime.           Scott P. Collins         --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Mark J Awakuni-Swetland wrote: From: Mark J Awakuni-Swetland Subject: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 2:14 PM Aloha All, Saul requested that I forward this on to the SiouanList. Regards, Mark Awakuni-Swetland Final Schedule Annual Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 White Cloud, Kansas The Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska will be making the following equipment and technologies available on site to presenters: -overhead projector -computer projector (for PowerPoint, etc.) -projection screen -wireless internet -podium and microphones Presenters are encouraged to bring their own copies of handouts since we will not have access to a copy machine. Please note that the conference dates are Thursday, June 16th, to Saturday, June 18th. There will be no presentations on Wednesday, June 15th, as initially advertised. Please double check your travel and lodging reservations in light of the finalized conference dates. Looking forward to seeing everyone at the conference! Sincerely, Jimm Goodtracks and Saul Schwartz sschwart at princeton dot edu jgoodtracks at gmail dot com 785-595-3335 31st Annual Siouan & Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska George Ogdon Building 3345 Thrasher Road White Cloud, Kansas 66094 Thursday, June 16th, 2011 9:00-9:30: George Wilmes, “Mandan Pronominal Prefixes: Arguments or Agreement Markers?” 9:30-10:00: Silvana Karin Torres, “Rethinking the Mandan Verbal Suffix Complex (Focus suffixes: iši, rąš, eška)”10:00-10:30: Zachary N. Gordon, “The Mandan Right Periphery: A Syntactic Examination of Evidentials and Force Markers”10:30-11:00: Morning Break                 11:00-11:30: David Kaufman, “Being Assertive in Biloxi”11:30-12:00: Justin T. McBride, “Exploring the Placement of Negation in the Post-Verbal Template of Kansa” 12:00-1:30: Lunch                 1:30-2:00: John P. Boyle, “Hidatsa Sentence Connectives: Form and Function” 2:00-2:30: Alexandrina Geanina Danis, “The Semantics of háki and hakték as Sentence Connectives in Mandan” 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break                 3:00-3:30: Rueben I. Kent, “Language of the Traditional Cedar Flute” 3:30-4:00: John Clarkson, “NP Coordination in Mandan” 4:00-4:30: Catherine Rudin, “Word or Phrase? Criteria for Omaha-Ponca Part of Speech Labels” Thursday, June 16, 7:00pm: Roundtable discussion on “Revival of the Wiki (CSG Project)” at the Eagle’s Nest Motel facilities. Participants may wish to dine together at the Motel. Friday, June 17th, 2011 9:00-9:30: Linda Cumberland and Kira Matthews, “Report on the Progress of the Kanza Language Dictionary Project” 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland and Catherine Rudin, “Keeping the Shiny Side Up and the Greasy Side Down: A Look Under the Hood of the Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary Database” 10:00-10:30: Rory Larson, “‘Ttappuska’: A 19th Century Acculturation Term” 10:30-11:00: Morning Break 11:00-11:30: Randolph Graczyk, “Current State of the Crow Language” 11:30-12:00: Robert L. Rankin, “Who were the Tomahitans?” 12:00-1:30: Lunch 1:30-2:00: Tania D. Moaton, “Mandan Narrative Discourse and the Evaluative Identity of Old Man Coyote” 2:00-2:30: Kathleen Danker, “What’s New with the Transcriptions and Translations of the Trickster Tales of Felix White, Sr.?” 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break 3:00-3:30: Iren Hartmann, “Valency and Verb Classes in Hoocąk”3:30-4:00: Mary Marino, “The Stoney Manuscripts of Father Valentin Vegreville, O.M.I”Friday, June 17, 6:00pm: Everyone invited to share an evening of food and fellowship at the home of Jimm Goodtracks, 1510 Wisconsin St, White Cloud, KS (785-595-3335). Tamales and chili furnished. BYOB & desserts. Saturday, June 18th, 2011 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland, “Monshtínge: A ‘Rabbit’ of a Different Color” 10:00-10:30: Jimm Goodtracks, “Update on the Ioway, Otoe-Missouria Dictionary Project and Language Nest” 10:30-11:00: Jill D. Greer, “A Prayer for the Night:  A Gift from the Late Reverend Arthur Lightfoot” -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Fri May 6 14:42:40 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 14:42:40 +0000 Subject: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE In-Reply-To: <855146.29059.qm@web83507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'll send a copy. Please remind me after the meeting though. . . . Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 9:36 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Re: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE I noticed the topic “Who were the Tomahitans?” scheduled for Dr. Rankin. I'd love to read that sometime. Scott P. Collins --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Mark J Awakuni-Swetland wrote: From: Mark J Awakuni-Swetland Subject: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 2:14 PM Aloha All, Saul requested that I forward this on to the SiouanList. Regards, Mark Awakuni-Swetland Final Schedule Annual Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 White Cloud, Kansas The Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska will be making the following equipment and technologies available on site to presenters: -overhead projector -computer projector (for PowerPoint, etc.) -projection screen -wireless internet -podium and microphones Presenters are encouraged to bring their own copies of handouts since we will not have access to a copy machine. Please note that the conference dates are Thursday, June 16th, to Saturday, June 18th. There will be no presentations on Wednesday, June 15th, as initially advertised. Please double check your travel and lodging reservations in light of the finalized conference dates. Looking forward to seeing everyone at the conference! Sincerely, Jimm Goodtracks and Saul Schwartz sschwart at princeton dot edu jgoodtracks at gmail dot com 785-595-3335 31st Annual Siouan & Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska George Ogdon Building 3345 Thrasher Road White Cloud, Kansas 66094 Thursday, June 16th, 2011 9:00-9:30: George Wilmes, “Mandan Pronominal Prefixes: Arguments or Agreement Markers?” 9:30-10:00: Silvana Karin Torres, “Rethinking the Mandan Verbal Suffix Complex (Focus suffixes: iši, rąš, eška)”10:00-10:30: Zachary N. Gordon, “The Mandan Right Periphery: A Syntactic Examination of Evidentials and Force Markers”10:30-11:00: Morning Break 11:00-11:30: David Kaufman, “Being Assertive in Biloxi”11:30-12:00: Justin T. McBride, “Exploring the Placement of Negation in the Post-Verbal Template of Kansa” 12:00-1:30: Lunch 1:30-2:00: John P. Boyle, “Hidatsa Sentence Connectives: Form and Function” 2:00-2:30: Alexandrina Geanina Danis, “The Semantics of háki and hakték as Sentence Connectives in Mandan” 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break 3:00-3:30: Rueben I. Kent, “Language of the Traditional Cedar Flute” 3:30-4:00: John Clarkson, “NP Coordination in Mandan” 4:00-4:30: Catherine Rudin, “Word or Phrase? Criteria for Omaha-Ponca Part of Speech Labels” Thursday, June 16, 7:00pm: Roundtable discussion on “Revival of the Wiki (CSG Project)” at the Eagle’s Nest Motel facilities. Participants may wish to dine together at the Motel. Friday, June 17th, 2011 9:00-9:30: Linda Cumberland and Kira Matthews, “Report on the Progress of the Kanza Language Dictionary Project” 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland and Catherine Rudin, “Keeping the Shiny Side Up and the Greasy Side Down: A Look Under the Hood of the Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary Database” 10:00-10:30: Rory Larson, “‘Ttappuska’: A 19th Century Acculturation Term” 10:30-11:00: Morning Break 11:00-11:30: Randolph Graczyk, “Current State of the Crow Language” 11:30-12:00: Robert L. Rankin, “Who were the Tomahitans?” 12:00-1:30: Lunch 1:30-2:00: Tania D. Moaton, “Mandan Narrative Discourse and the Evaluative Identity of Old Man Coyote” 2:00-2:30: Kathleen Danker, “What’s New with the Transcriptions and Translations of the Trickster Tales of Felix White, Sr.?” 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break 3:00-3:30: Iren Hartmann, “Valency and Verb Classes in Hoocąk”3:30-4:00: Mary Marino, “The Stoney Manuscripts of Father Valentin Vegreville, O.M.I”Friday, June 17, 6:00pm: Everyone invited to share an evening of food and fellowship at the home of Jimm Goodtracks, 1510 Wisconsin St, White Cloud, KS (785-595-3335). Tamales and chili furnished. BYOB & desserts. Saturday, June 18th, 2011 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland, “Monshtínge: A ‘Rabbit’ of a Different Color” 10:00-10:30: Jimm Goodtracks, “Update on the Ioway, Otoe-Missouria Dictionary Project and Language Nest” 10:30-11:00: Jill D. Greer, “A Prayer for the Night: A Gift from the Late Reverend Arthur Lightfoot” From saponi360 at yahoo.com Fri May 20 06:21:33 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 23:21:33 -0700 Subject: The I in Tutelo-Saponi Message-ID: I was wondering if the capital I in the Tutelo-Saponi langugae is pronounced (eye) or (eye-yah)? Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Fri May 20 17:16:53 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:16:53 +0000 Subject: The I in Tutelo-Saponi In-Reply-To: <483721.43153.qm@web83502.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If the transcription was done by a linguist or by one of the talented amateurs like Horatio Hale then all vowels, whether upper case or lower case, should have standard values: Aa like the a in father. Ee like the e in bet Ii like the i in machine Oo like the o in boat Uu like the u in rune If the transcription was done by someone else there's no way to know what was intended unless we can compare their writing to some known source. Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 1:21 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: The I in Tutelo-Saponi I was wondering if the capital I in the Tutelo-Saponi langugae is pronounced (eye) or (eye-yah)? Scott P. Collins From saponi360 at yahoo.com Sat May 21 04:09:40 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 21:09:40 -0700 Subject: The I in Tutelo-Saponi In-Reply-To: <5E87B4AFA471B543884CD3128A7C8CC6235BF085@EXCH10-MBX-05.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: Thank you Dr. Rankin. Scott P. Collins --- On Fri, 5/20/11, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: The I in Tutelo-Saponi To: "siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU" Date: Friday, May 20, 2011, 12:16 PM If the transcription was done by a linguist or by one of the talented amateurs like Horatio Hale then all vowels, whether upper case or lower case, should have standard values: Aa like the a in father. Ee like the e in bet Ii like the i in machine Oo like the o in boat Uu like the u in rune If the transcription was done by someone else there's no way to know what was intended unless we can compare their writing to some known source. Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 1:21 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: The I in Tutelo-Saponi I was wondering if the capital I in the Tutelo-Saponi langugae is pronounced (eye) or (eye-yah)? Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Sat May 28 16:44:06 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:44:06 -0700 Subject: Saponi Word For Medicine In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F59D7@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: I would love to read this. Would you by chance have a copy of the article? Scott P. Collins --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Saponi Word For Medicine To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:27 PM I think I discussed the relationship among the terms for 'sacred', 'god', 'medicine' and 'snake' in that paper I coauthored with Giulia Oliverio in the Frank Siebert Festschrift. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Sat 1/16/2010 2:28 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Re: Saponi Word For Medicine Scott, Not sure how much help this is, but Biloxi medicine is 'tixi' which I assume to be related to your Tutelo te:si:, although in Biloxi yo is body (or meat), not tixi.  Phi in Biloxi is also 'good', but I don't recall seeing that used with tixi in the Biloxi data.  I actually wondered if the -xi ending of tixi was actually the word for 'mysterious' or 'sacred.' Dave --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: Saponi Word For Medicine To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 1:02 PM I can not seem to find a word for medicine in Saponi so wanted to get your opinion about this follow set for the word.     ya- = progressive aspect pi: = good te:si: = body   Together it is ya-te:si:pi or it could be ya-te:si:ipi:   Is this correct?   Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle "Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose."       -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Sun May 1 22:13:44 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 22:13:44 +0000 Subject: Reminder! Message-ID: Dear all, Today is the deadline for abstracts of papers to be given at the Siouan and Caddoan Linguistics Conference at White Cloud, KS in June. So if you haven't done so, be sure and get yours in today to sschwart at princeton.edu. Bob From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Tue May 3 16:11:48 2011 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 11:11:48 -0500 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity Message-ID: http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/nu/opd.03.005.09c.jpg Aloha All, Catherine located another Dorsey orthographic oddity. The image link is above. Can anyone interpret the diacritic under the /u/ in the cognates? It appears to have two under dots. There are two samples of it. Catherine reported finding a /u/ with what appears to be an under tilde elsewhere. We are unsure if the two under dots are just a poorly scribed tilde. Suggestions? Many thanks Mark Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Anthropology & Ethnic Studies Native American Studies Program Liaison University of Nebraska Department of Anthropology 841 Oldfather Hall Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 http://omahalanguage.unl.edu http://omahaponca.unl.edu Phone 402-472-3455 FAX: 402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linguista at gmail.com Tue May 3 16:26:24 2011 From: linguista at gmail.com (Bryan James Gordon) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 09:26:24 -0700 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The /u/ is fronted in Kansa and Osage, so I reckon Dorsey meant for that to be a normal German umlaut, and forgot which side of the vowel to put it on. - Bryan -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lcumberl at indiana.edu Tue May 3 17:32:46 2011 From: lcumberl at indiana.edu (Cumberland, Linda A) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 13:32:46 -0400 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark and Catherine, The Dorsey slip for the Kaw word that corresponds to the example you sent is "du", with no marking under the vowel. In that entry he also gives cross-references to dule and du-ska, also with no diacritic above or below the u. (the contemporary form is fully rounded "do"). However, the Os. example at the bottom of the slip is "tu" with an x under the 't' and a perfectly clear tilde under the 'u'. Since your mystery diacritic occurs in a Kaw reference, and our slip for that word has no marking under the Kaw word but a tilde under the OS word, I'd guess that you are dealing with a tilde which, as Brian notes, probably indicates the fronting of u in Osage and Kanza. I'd be surprised if Dorsey didn't know where to place an umlaut, so my money's on a "poorly scribed tilde". Linda Quoting Mark J Awakuni-Swetland : > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/nu/opd.03.005.09c.jpg > > > Aloha All, > > Catherine located another Dorsey orthographic oddity. The image link is > above. > > Can anyone interpret the diacritic under the /u/ in the cognates? > > It appears to have two under dots. > > There are two samples of it. > > Catherine reported finding a /u/ with what appears to be an under tilde > elsewhere. > > We are unsure if the two under dots are just a poorly scribed tilde. > > Suggestions? > > Many thanks > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Anthropology & Ethnic Studies > Native American Studies Program Liaison > University of Nebraska > Department of Anthropology > 841 Oldfather Hall > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 From CaRudin1 at wsc.edu Tue May 3 17:47:39 2011 From: CaRudin1 at wsc.edu (Catherine Rudin) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 12:47:39 -0500 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity In-Reply-To: <20110503133246.d5dmlp9yg48004sc@webmail.iu.edu> Message-ID: Dorsey does indeed know where an umlaut belongs :-) He uses umlaut over u pretty often, and it's clear it indicates a front rounded vowel. He uses (clearly written) tilde both above and below u, and I'm not sure what it indicates. I've not seen what looks like an umlaut below a letter except in this example. If it IS "poorly scribed tilde" (or one that got partly erased or something) what sound would that mean? Catherine >>> "Cumberland, Linda A" 5/3/2011 12:32 PM >>> Mark and Catherine, The Dorsey slip for the Kaw word that corresponds to the example you sent is "du", with no marking under the vowel. In that entry he also gives cross-references to dule and du-ska, also with no diacritic above or below the u. (the contemporary form is fully rounded "do"). However, the Os. example at the bottom of the slip is "tu" with an x under the 't' and a perfectly clear tilde under the 'u'. Since your mystery diacritic occurs in a Kaw reference, and our slip for that word has no marking under the Kaw word but a tilde under the OS word, I'd guess that you are dealing with a tilde which, as Brian notes, probably indicates the fronting of u in Osage and Kanza. I'd be surprised if Dorsey didn't know where to place an umlaut, so my money's on a "poorly scribed tilde". Linda Quoting Mark J Awakuni-Swetland : > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/nu/opd.03.005.09c.jpg > > > Aloha All, > > Catherine located another Dorsey orthographic oddity. The image link is > above. > > Can anyone interpret the diacritic under the /u/ in the cognates? > > It appears to have two under dots. > > There are two samples of it. > > Catherine reported finding a /u/ with what appears to be an under tilde > elsewhere. > > We are unsure if the two under dots are just a poorly scribed tilde. > > Suggestions? > > Many thanks > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Anthropology & Ethnic Studies > Native American Studies Program Liaison > University of Nebraska > Department of Anthropology > 841 Oldfather Hall > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Tue May 3 19:15:44 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 19:15:44 +0000 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity In-Reply-To: <4DBFF96B.6215.008E.1@wsc.edu> Message-ID: Everybody is partly right. I suspect the symbol is probably a tilde, given that he also wrote it with an Osage subscript tilde in the identical entry in Kansa as per Linda's observation. But the subscript tilde signifies *lowering* rather than fronting. As Catherine points out, he uses a regular Umlaut for fronting. It has to be lowering because the reflexes of Proto-Siouan *o never front. In Dhegiha they always raise to "u" in Dorsey's transcription. He used the "u" symbol in Quapaw, Osage and Kaw also even though it is generally [o] in those languages except next to velars, where you do hear [u]. The Osage symbol he's using (assuming it's a sub-posed tilde) would signal an open or lowered "u", as in 'pull' or 'put'. If you wanted to "normalize" it, you could use whatever symbol you're using for the phoneme that represents the o~u sound (local reflexes of *o). I use /o/ in KS, OS and QU. John Koontz sticks to /u/ in OM and PO. [u] and [o] do not contrast in any Dhegiha language; both come from *o. The umlauted u" only develops in Kaw and Osage from Proto-Siouan *u (never *o). This development also took place in Omaha, Ponca and Quapaw, but the front rounded vowel unrounded to [i] everywhere in all three languages (and sporadically in Kaw and Osage). Best, Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Catherine Rudin [CaRudin1 at wsc.edu] Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2011 12:47 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Re: JOD orthographic oddity Dorsey does indeed know where an umlaut belongs :-) He uses umlaut over u pretty often, and it's clear it indicates a front rounded vowel. He uses (clearly written) tilde both above and below u, and I'm not sure what it indicates. I've not seen what looks like an umlaut below a letter except in this example. If it IS "poorly scribed tilde" (or one that got partly erased or something) what sound would that mean? Catherine >>> "Cumberland, Linda A" 5/3/2011 12:32 PM >>> Mark and Catherine, The Dorsey slip for the Kaw word that corresponds to the example you sent is "du", with no marking under the vowel. In that entry he also gives cross-references to dule and du-ska, also with no diacritic above or below the u. (the contemporary form is fully rounded "do"). However, the Os. example at the bottom of the slip is "tu" with an x under the 't' and a perfectly clear tilde under the 'u'. Since your mystery diacritic occurs in a Kaw reference, and our slip for that word has no marking under the Kaw word but a tilde under the OS word, I'd guess that you are dealing with a tilde which, as Brian notes, probably indicates the fronting of u in Osage and Kanza. I'd be surprised if Dorsey didn't know where to place an umlaut, so my money's on a "poorly scribed tilde". Linda Quoting Mark J Awakuni-Swetland : > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/nu/opd.03.005.09c.jpg > > > Aloha All, > > Catherine located another Dorsey orthographic oddity. The image link is > above. > > Can anyone interpret the diacritic under the /u/ in the cognates? > > It appears to have two under dots. > > There are two samples of it. > > Catherine reported finding a /u/ with what appears to be an under tilde > elsewhere. > > We are unsure if the two under dots are just a poorly scribed tilde. > > Suggestions? > > Many thanks > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Anthropology & Ethnic Studies > Native American Studies Program Liaison > University of Nebraska > Department of Anthropology > 841 Oldfather Hall > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 From george.wilmes at gmail.com Tue May 3 21:31:25 2011 From: george.wilmes at gmail.com (George Wilmes) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 16:31:25 -0500 Subject: JOD orthographic oddity In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Mark (and others), I am not qualified to speak about Dorsey or the languages in question, but I can say: 1. Those sure look like dots to me! 2. According to the Unicode standard (which I realize came much later!), two dots (diaeresis) below means "IPA: breathy voice or murmur". What I don't know is what two dots below might have meant in Dorsey's time. George On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Mark J Awakuni-Swetland wrote: > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu/dictionary_images/nu/opd.03.005.09c.jpg > > > Aloha All, > > Catherine located another Dorsey orthographic oddity. The image link is > above. > > Can anyone interpret the diacritic under the /u/ in the cognates? > > It appears to have two under dots. > > There are two samples of it. > > Catherine reported finding a /u/ with what appears to be an under tilde > elsewhere. > > We are unsure if the two under dots are just a poorly scribed tilde. > > Suggestions? > > Many thanks > > Mark > > > Mark Awakuni-Swetland, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Anthropology & Ethnic Studies > Native American Studies Program Liaison > University of Nebraska > Department of Anthropology > 841 Oldfather Hall > Lincoln, NE 68588-0368 > > http://omahalanguage.unl.edu > http://omahaponca.unl.edu > Phone 402-472-3455 > FAX: 402-472-9642 From saponi360 at yahoo.com Wed May 4 06:13:33 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 23:13:33 -0700 Subject: Saponi Language Questions Message-ID: I'm looking for the word for ?thoughly? which I think may be pi-api-ipi. I'm also looking for the words ?annointed? and ?oil?. So far I?m thinking masa-pa for ?annointed? . The word for grease in Ofo is itchi and in Biloxi it is tcin. I'm thinking that the word would be tche in Saponi or something like this. Any ideas? ? ? ? ? ? Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lcumberl at indiana.edu Wed May 4 15:21:41 2011 From: lcumberl at indiana.edu (Cumberland, Linda A) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 11:21:41 -0400 Subject: Saponi Language Questions In-Reply-To: <529871.37343.qm@web83504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Scott, You might contact Marty Richardson at the Haliwa-Saponi Tribe. He has been working on the language on and off for the past decade in his capacity as Director of Planning and Development, teaching and developing word lists and other materials. I don't know if he's on the Siouan list, so here's his email address in case he isn't. mrichardson at haliwa-saponi.com Linda Quoting Scott Collins : > I'm looking for the word for ?thoughly? which I think may be pi-api-ipi. > I'm also looking for the words ?annointed? and ?oil?. > So far I?m thinking masa-pa for ?annointed? . The word for grease in > Ofo is itchi and in Biloxi it is tcin. I'm thinking that the word > would be tche in Saponi or something like this. Any ideas? > > ? > ? > ? > ? > ? > Scott P. Collins > From rankin at ku.edu Wed May 4 15:29:38 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 15:29:38 +0000 Subject: Saponi Language Questions In-Reply-To: <529871.37343.qm@web83504.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Did you mean 'thoroughly'?? Little typing problem there. :-) The tcin/itci word there is also the term for 'fat'. tutelo should be nearly the same: Ichi? or chi?. Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:13 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Saponi Language Questions I'm looking for the word for ?thoughly? which I think may be pi-api-ipi. I'm also looking for the words ?annointed? and ?oil?. So far I?m thinking masa-pa for ?annointed? . The word for grease in Ofo is itchi and in Biloxi it is tcin. I'm thinking that the word would be tche in Saponi or something like this. Any ideas? Scott P. Collins From saponi360 at yahoo.com Thu May 5 05:41:56 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 22:41:56 -0700 Subject: Saponi Language Questions In-Reply-To: <5E87B4AFA471B543884CD3128A7C8CC603EE94@EXCH10-MBX-05.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: Thank you Dr. Rankin and Dr. Cumberland. ? "Thoroughly" was the word instead of "thoughly", lol. I should have thoroughly inspected my typing of the word. ? The word for fat in Tutelo-Saponi then is chi. (chin) Is it possible that by adding the -ici at the end that it would render it?as oil, like saying the little parts of the fat, i.e. oil. No puns intended. ? Scott P. Collins ? --- On Wed, 5/4/11, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Saponi Language Questions To: "siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU" Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 10:29 AM Did you mean 'thoroughly'??? Little typing problem there.? :-) The tcin/itci word there is also the term for 'fat'.? tutelo should be nearly the same:? Ichi? or chi?. Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:13 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Saponi Language Questions I'm looking for the word for ?thoughly? which I think may be pi-api-ipi. I'm also looking for the words ?annointed? and ?oil?. So far I?m thinking masa-pa for ?annointed? . The word for grease in Ofo is itchi and in Biloxi it is tcin. I'm thinking that the word would be tche in Saponi or something like this. Any ideas? Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Thu May 5 18:24:02 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 18:24:02 +0000 Subject: Saponi Language Questions In-Reply-To: <325748.46673.qm@web83508.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Afraid I can't help much with 'thoroughly'. Maybe 'whole' or 'all' would be as close as you could come? 'To oil' in Kaw and other Dhegiha languages contains the root /gli/ 'to shine'. So /wee(g)li/ is 'what they shine with' or 'what they make it shine with'. Something like that could represent your 'annoint'. /chi?/ would be your 'oil'. bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 12:41 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: RE: Saponi Language Questions Thank you Dr. Rankin and Dr. Cumberland. "Thoroughly" was the word instead of "thoughly", lol. I should have thoroughly inspected my typing of the word. The word for fat in Tutelo-Saponi then is chi. (chin) Is it possible that by adding the -ici at the end that it would render it as oil, like saying the little parts of the fat, i.e. oil. No puns intended. Scott P. Collins --- On Wed, 5/4/11, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Saponi Language Questions To: "siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU" Date: Wednesday, May 4, 2011, 10:29 AM Did you mean 'thoroughly'?? Little typing problem there. :-) The tcin/itci word there is also the term for 'fat'. tutelo should be nearly the same: Ichi? or chi?. Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:13 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Saponi Language Questions I'm looking for the word for ?thoughly? which I think may be pi-api-ipi. I'm also looking for the words ?annointed? and ?oil?. So far I?m thinking masa-pa for ?annointed? . The word for grease in Ofo is itchi and in Biloxi it is tcin. I'm thinking that the word would be tche in Saponi or something like this. Any ideas? Scott P. Collins From mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu Thu May 5 19:14:57 2011 From: mawakuni-swetland2 at unlnotes.unl.edu (Mark J Awakuni-Swetland) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 14:14:57 -0500 Subject: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE Message-ID: Aloha All, Saul requested that I forward this on to the SiouanList. Regards, Mark Awakuni-Swetland Final Schedule Annual Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 White Cloud, Kansas The Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska will be making the following equipment and technologies available on site to presenters: -overhead projector -computer projector (for PowerPoint, etc.) -projection screen -wireless internet -podium and microphones Presenters are encouraged to bring their own copies of handouts since we will not have access to a copy machine. Please note that the conference dates are Thursday, June 16th, to Saturday, June 18th. There will be no presentations on Wednesday, June 15th, as initially advertised. Please double check your travel and lodging reservations in light of the finalized conference dates. Looking forward to seeing everyone at the conference! Sincerely, Jimm Goodtracks and Saul Schwartz sschwart at princeton dot edu jgoodtracks at gmail dot com 785-595-3335 31st Annual Siouan & Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska George Ogdon Building 3345 Thrasher Road White Cloud, Kansas 66094 Thursday, June 16th, 2011 9:00-9:30: George Wilmes, ?Mandan Pronominal Prefixes: Arguments or Agreement Markers?? 9:30-10:00: Silvana Karin Torres, ?Rethinking the Mandan Verbal Suffix Complex (Focus suffixes: i?i, r??, e?ka)?10:00-10:30: Zachary N. Gordon, ?The Mandan Right Periphery: A Syntactic Examination of Evidentials and Force Markers?10:30-11:00: Morning Break 11:00-11:30: David Kaufman, ?Being Assertive in Biloxi?11:30-12:00: Justin T. McBride, ?Exploring the Placement of Negation in the Post-Verbal Template of Kansa? 12:00-1:30: Lunch 1:30-2:00: John P. Boyle, ?Hidatsa Sentence Connectives: Form and Function? 2:00-2:30: Alexandrina Geanina Danis, ?The Semantics of h?ki and hakt?k as Sentence Connectives in Mandan? 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break 3:00-3:30: Rueben I. Kent, ?Language of the Traditional Cedar Flute? 3:30-4:00: John Clarkson, ?NP Coordination in Mandan? 4:00-4:30: Catherine Rudin, ?Word or Phrase? Criteria for Omaha-Ponca Part of Speech Labels? Thursday, June 16, 7:00pm: Roundtable discussion on ?Revival of the Wiki (CSG Project)? at the Eagle?s Nest Motel facilities. Participants may wish to dine together at the Motel. Friday, June 17th, 2011 9:00-9:30: Linda Cumberland and Kira Matthews, ?Report on the Progress of the Kanza Language Dictionary Project? 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland and Catherine Rudin, ?Keeping the Shiny Side Up and the Greasy Side Down: A Look Under the Hood of the Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary Database? 10:00-10:30: Rory Larson, ??Ttappuska?: A 19th Century Acculturation Term? 10:30-11:00: Morning Break 11:00-11:30: Randolph Graczyk, ?Current State of the Crow Language? 11:30-12:00: Robert L. Rankin, ?Who were the Tomahitans?? 12:00-1:30: Lunch 1:30-2:00: Tania D. Moaton, ?Mandan Narrative Discourse and the Evaluative Identity of Old Man Coyote? 2:00-2:30: Kathleen Danker, ?What?s New with the Transcriptions and Translations of the Trickster Tales of Felix White, Sr.?? 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break 3:00-3:30: Iren Hartmann, ?Valency and Verb Classes in Hooc?k?3:30-4:00: Mary Marino, ?The Stoney Manuscripts of Father Valentin Vegreville, O.M.I?Friday, June 17, 6:00pm: Everyone invited to share an evening of food and fellowship at the home of Jimm Goodtracks, 1510 Wisconsin St, White Cloud, KS (785-595-3335). Tamales and chili furnished. BYOB & desserts. Saturday, June 18th, 2011 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland, ?Monsht?nge: A ?Rabbit? of a Different Color? 10:00-10:30: Jimm Goodtracks, ?Update on the Ioway, Otoe-Missouria Dictionary Project and Language Nest? 10:30-11:00: Jill D. Greer, ?A Prayer for the Night: A Gift from the Late Reverend Arthur Lightfoot? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Fri May 6 02:36:14 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Thu, 5 May 2011 19:36:14 -0700 Subject: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I noticed the topic ?Who were the Tomahitans?? scheduled for Dr. Rankin. I'd love to read that sometime. ? ? ? ? ? Scott P. Collins ? ? ? ? --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Mark J Awakuni-Swetland wrote: From: Mark J Awakuni-Swetland Subject: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 2:14 PM Aloha All, Saul requested that I forward this on to the SiouanList. Regards, Mark Awakuni-Swetland Final Schedule Annual Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 White Cloud, Kansas The Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska will be making the following equipment and technologies available on site to presenters: -overhead projector -computer projector (for PowerPoint, etc.) -projection screen -wireless internet -podium and microphones Presenters are encouraged to bring their own copies of handouts since we will not have access to a copy machine. Please note that the conference dates are Thursday, June 16th, to Saturday, June 18th. There will be no presentations on Wednesday, June 15th, as initially advertised. Please double check your travel and lodging reservations in light of the finalized conference dates. Looking forward to seeing everyone at the conference! Sincerely, Jimm Goodtracks and Saul Schwartz sschwart at princeton dot edu jgoodtracks at gmail dot com 785-595-3335 31st Annual Siouan & Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska George Ogdon Building 3345 Thrasher Road White Cloud, Kansas 66094 Thursday, June 16th, 2011 9:00-9:30: George Wilmes, ?Mandan Pronominal Prefixes: Arguments or Agreement Markers?? 9:30-10:00: Silvana Karin Torres, ?Rethinking the Mandan Verbal Suffix Complex (Focus suffixes: i?i, r??, e?ka)?10:00-10:30: Zachary N. Gordon, ?The Mandan Right Periphery: A Syntactic Examination of Evidentials and Force Markers?10:30-11:00: Morning Break ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 11:00-11:30: David Kaufman, ?Being Assertive in Biloxi?11:30-12:00: Justin T. McBride, ?Exploring the Placement of Negation in the Post-Verbal Template of Kansa? 12:00-1:30: Lunch ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 1:30-2:00: John P. Boyle, ?Hidatsa Sentence Connectives: Form and Function? 2:00-2:30: Alexandrina Geanina Danis, ?The Semantics of h?ki and hakt?k as Sentence Connectives in Mandan? 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 3:00-3:30: Rueben I. Kent, ?Language of the Traditional Cedar Flute? 3:30-4:00: John Clarkson, ?NP Coordination in Mandan? 4:00-4:30: Catherine Rudin, ?Word or Phrase? Criteria for Omaha-Ponca Part of Speech Labels? Thursday, June 16, 7:00pm: Roundtable discussion on ?Revival of the Wiki (CSG Project)? at the Eagle?s Nest Motel facilities. Participants may wish to dine together at the Motel. Friday, June 17th, 2011 9:00-9:30: Linda Cumberland and Kira Matthews, ?Report on the Progress of the Kanza Language Dictionary Project? 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland and Catherine Rudin, ?Keeping the Shiny Side Up and the Greasy Side Down: A Look Under the Hood of the Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary Database? 10:00-10:30: Rory Larson, ??Ttappuska?: A 19th Century Acculturation Term? 10:30-11:00: Morning Break 11:00-11:30: Randolph Graczyk, ?Current State of the Crow Language? 11:30-12:00: Robert L. Rankin, ?Who were the Tomahitans?? 12:00-1:30: Lunch 1:30-2:00: Tania D. Moaton, ?Mandan Narrative Discourse and the Evaluative Identity of Old Man Coyote? 2:00-2:30: Kathleen Danker, ?What?s New with the Transcriptions and Translations of the Trickster Tales of Felix White, Sr.?? 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break 3:00-3:30: Iren Hartmann, ?Valency and Verb Classes in Hooc?k?3:30-4:00: Mary Marino, ?The Stoney Manuscripts of Father Valentin Vegreville, O.M.I?Friday, June 17, 6:00pm: Everyone invited to share an evening of food and fellowship at the home of Jimm Goodtracks, 1510 Wisconsin St, White Cloud, KS (785-595-3335). Tamales and chili furnished. BYOB & desserts. Saturday, June 18th, 2011 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland, ?Monsht?nge: A ?Rabbit? of a Different Color? 10:00-10:30: Jimm Goodtracks, ?Update on the Ioway, Otoe-Missouria Dictionary Project and Language Nest? 10:30-11:00: Jill D. Greer, ?A Prayer for the Night: ?A Gift from the Late Reverend Arthur Lightfoot? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Fri May 6 14:42:40 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 14:42:40 +0000 Subject: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE In-Reply-To: <855146.29059.qm@web83507.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I'll send a copy. Please remind me after the meeting though. . . . Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2011 9:36 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Re: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE I noticed the topic ?Who were the Tomahitans?? scheduled for Dr. Rankin. I'd love to read that sometime. Scott P. Collins --- On Thu, 5/5/11, Mark J Awakuni-Swetland wrote: From: Mark J Awakuni-Swetland Subject: SACC 2011 FINAL SCHEDULE To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Thursday, May 5, 2011, 2:14 PM Aloha All, Saul requested that I forward this on to the SiouanList. Regards, Mark Awakuni-Swetland Final Schedule Annual Siouan and Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 White Cloud, Kansas The Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska will be making the following equipment and technologies available on site to presenters: -overhead projector -computer projector (for PowerPoint, etc.) -projection screen -wireless internet -podium and microphones Presenters are encouraged to bring their own copies of handouts since we will not have access to a copy machine. Please note that the conference dates are Thursday, June 16th, to Saturday, June 18th. There will be no presentations on Wednesday, June 15th, as initially advertised. Please double check your travel and lodging reservations in light of the finalized conference dates. Looking forward to seeing everyone at the conference! Sincerely, Jimm Goodtracks and Saul Schwartz sschwart at princeton dot edu jgoodtracks at gmail dot com 785-595-3335 31st Annual Siouan & Caddoan Languages Conference June 16-18, 2011 Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska George Ogdon Building 3345 Thrasher Road White Cloud, Kansas 66094 Thursday, June 16th, 2011 9:00-9:30: George Wilmes, ?Mandan Pronominal Prefixes: Arguments or Agreement Markers?? 9:30-10:00: Silvana Karin Torres, ?Rethinking the Mandan Verbal Suffix Complex (Focus suffixes: i?i, r??, e?ka)?10:00-10:30: Zachary N. Gordon, ?The Mandan Right Periphery: A Syntactic Examination of Evidentials and Force Markers?10:30-11:00: Morning Break 11:00-11:30: David Kaufman, ?Being Assertive in Biloxi?11:30-12:00: Justin T. McBride, ?Exploring the Placement of Negation in the Post-Verbal Template of Kansa? 12:00-1:30: Lunch 1:30-2:00: John P. Boyle, ?Hidatsa Sentence Connectives: Form and Function? 2:00-2:30: Alexandrina Geanina Danis, ?The Semantics of h?ki and hakt?k as Sentence Connectives in Mandan? 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break 3:00-3:30: Rueben I. Kent, ?Language of the Traditional Cedar Flute? 3:30-4:00: John Clarkson, ?NP Coordination in Mandan? 4:00-4:30: Catherine Rudin, ?Word or Phrase? Criteria for Omaha-Ponca Part of Speech Labels? Thursday, June 16, 7:00pm: Roundtable discussion on ?Revival of the Wiki (CSG Project)? at the Eagle?s Nest Motel facilities. Participants may wish to dine together at the Motel. Friday, June 17th, 2011 9:00-9:30: Linda Cumberland and Kira Matthews, ?Report on the Progress of the Kanza Language Dictionary Project? 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland and Catherine Rudin, ?Keeping the Shiny Side Up and the Greasy Side Down: A Look Under the Hood of the Omaha and Ponca Digital Dictionary Database? 10:00-10:30: Rory Larson, ??Ttappuska?: A 19th Century Acculturation Term? 10:30-11:00: Morning Break 11:00-11:30: Randolph Graczyk, ?Current State of the Crow Language? 11:30-12:00: Robert L. Rankin, ?Who were the Tomahitans?? 12:00-1:30: Lunch 1:30-2:00: Tania D. Moaton, ?Mandan Narrative Discourse and the Evaluative Identity of Old Man Coyote? 2:00-2:30: Kathleen Danker, ?What?s New with the Transcriptions and Translations of the Trickster Tales of Felix White, Sr.?? 2:30-3:00: Afternoon Break 3:00-3:30: Iren Hartmann, ?Valency and Verb Classes in Hooc?k?3:30-4:00: Mary Marino, ?The Stoney Manuscripts of Father Valentin Vegreville, O.M.I?Friday, June 17, 6:00pm: Everyone invited to share an evening of food and fellowship at the home of Jimm Goodtracks, 1510 Wisconsin St, White Cloud, KS (785-595-3335). Tamales and chili furnished. BYOB & desserts. Saturday, June 18th, 2011 9:30-10:00: Mark Awakuni-Swetland, ?Monsht?nge: A ?Rabbit? of a Different Color? 10:00-10:30: Jimm Goodtracks, ?Update on the Ioway, Otoe-Missouria Dictionary Project and Language Nest? 10:30-11:00: Jill D. Greer, ?A Prayer for the Night: A Gift from the Late Reverend Arthur Lightfoot? From saponi360 at yahoo.com Fri May 20 06:21:33 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Thu, 19 May 2011 23:21:33 -0700 Subject: The I in Tutelo-Saponi Message-ID: I was wondering if the capital I in the Tutelo-Saponi langugae is pronounced (eye) or (eye-yah)? Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at ku.edu Fri May 20 17:16:53 2011 From: rankin at ku.edu (Rankin, Robert L) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 17:16:53 +0000 Subject: The I in Tutelo-Saponi In-Reply-To: <483721.43153.qm@web83502.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: If the transcription was done by a linguist or by one of the talented amateurs like Horatio Hale then all vowels, whether upper case or lower case, should have standard values: Aa like the a in father. Ee like the e in bet Ii like the i in machine Oo like the o in boat Uu like the u in rune If the transcription was done by someone else there's no way to know what was intended unless we can compare their writing to some known source. Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 1:21 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: The I in Tutelo-Saponi I was wondering if the capital I in the Tutelo-Saponi langugae is pronounced (eye) or (eye-yah)? Scott P. Collins From saponi360 at yahoo.com Sat May 21 04:09:40 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Fri, 20 May 2011 21:09:40 -0700 Subject: The I in Tutelo-Saponi In-Reply-To: <5E87B4AFA471B543884CD3128A7C8CC6235BF085@EXCH10-MBX-05.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: Thank you Dr. Rankin. Scott P. Collins --- On Fri, 5/20/11, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: The I in Tutelo-Saponi To: "siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU" Date: Friday, May 20, 2011, 12:16 PM If the transcription was done by a linguist or by one of the talented amateurs like Horatio Hale then all vowels, whether upper case or lower case, should have standard values: Aa like the a in father. Ee like the e in bet Ii like the i in machine Oo like the o in boat Uu like the u in rune If the transcription was done by someone else there's no way to know what was intended unless we can compare their writing to some known source. Bob ________________________________________ From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU [owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, May 20, 2011 1:21 AM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: The I in Tutelo-Saponi I was wondering if the capital I in the Tutelo-Saponi langugae is pronounced (eye) or (eye-yah)? Scott P. Collins -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at yahoo.com Sat May 28 16:44:06 2011 From: saponi360 at yahoo.com (Scott Collins) Date: Sat, 28 May 2011 09:44:06 -0700 Subject: Saponi Word For Medicine In-Reply-To: <94AEF443BC155B408F63B70FAD80787B5F59D7@MAILBOX-31.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: I would love to read this. Would you by chance have a copy of the article? Scott P. Collins --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Rankin, Robert L wrote: From: Rankin, Robert L Subject: RE: Saponi Word For Medicine To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 11:27 PM I think I discussed the relationship among the terms for 'sacred', 'god', 'medicine' and 'snake' in that paper I coauthored with Giulia Oliverio in the Frank Siebert Festschrift. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU on behalf of David Kaufman Sent: Sat 1/16/2010 2:28 PM To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Subject: Re: Saponi Word For Medicine Scott, Not sure how much help this is, but Biloxi medicine is 'tixi' which I assume to be related to your Tutelo te:si:, although in Biloxi yo is body (or meat), not tixi.? Phi in Biloxi is also 'good', but I don't recall seeing that used with tixi in the Biloxi data.? I actually wondered if the -xi ending of tixi was actually the word for 'mysterious' or 'sacred.' Dave --- On Sat, 1/16/10, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: Saponi Word For Medicine To: siouan at lists.Colorado.EDU Date: Saturday, January 16, 2010, 1:02 PM I can not seem to find a word for medicine in Saponi so wanted to get your opinion about this follow set for the word. ? ? ya- = progressive aspect pi: = good te:si: = body ? Together it is ya-te:si:pi or it could be ya-te:si:ipi: ? Is this correct? ? Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle "Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose." ? ? ? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: