From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 2 17:47:29 2012 From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 12:47:29 -0500 Subject: PREFIX "WA-" CONJUGATIONS In-Reply-To: <72663936A7BBD841B5FB12A49C95E436783BEAD173@Server6-EX.omtribe.net> Message-ID: A question comes from the Otoe-Missouria Language Dept. in regard to the unique conjugation of "w-" prefixed verbs, such as, "wachí" (dance)[L/Dak], wawáchi, I dance/ wayáchi, you dance; "wasí" (IOM). Also noted in (L/D) "maní" (walk), mayáni, you walk. We are all aware of this phenomenon in Siouan Languages, but I do not recall anyone discussing it. In the New Lakhota Dictionary: "wa-" 1. indefinite object marker. Usage: can be translated with 'people, things' and often gives the verb a more general or abstract meaning" p.541 NLD also speaks to a "large group of Lakota verbs isactive verbs. They describe actions, espcially those governed or controlled by the actor. They are the opposite of stative verbs.... that one has no controll over them. ... Active verbs are thus all those verbs that do not take the affixes ma- and ni- for I and you respectively." p.709 Can we have some explaination in easily understandable English that I may share with the local language communities?? jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Campbell, Sky To: Jimm G. GoodTracks Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: RE: Aho! Ah, so perhaps it is the difference between the wa- being instrumental and the wa- being a part of the actual verb stem/root? Or is the "wa-" in "wasi" some other kind of prefix that I'm unaware of? I've noticed that wa- wears a LOT of hats in Otoe-Missouria LOL. How was your weekend? Got plans for the 4th? Sky Campbell, B. A. Curriculum Materials Developer Language Department Otoe-Missouria Tribe 580-723-4466 ext. 111 sky at omtribe.org From: Jimm G. GoodTracks [mailto:jgoodtracks at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 4:48 PM To: Campbell, Sky Subject: Re: Aho! Ho Hintado...... will be fine. Yes, you have the conjugations correct for both "dance" & "write." Yes, there is a difference in the kind of "wa-" prefix. For "write" the wa- is an instrumental. For dance, it is a totally different phenomenon that occurs across Siouan languages. I will try to research it, and see if I can bring you an explanation. Meanwhile, It is not the only instance where it ocurrs. From: Campbell, Sky Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:50 AM To: Jimm G. GoodTracks Subject: RE: Aho! Thanks for the reply! I'll go over this a few times to let it sink in. If there needs to be some sort of kinship term, would hintaro work since I'm not an Otoe relation (although following the thought of "we are all related" may apply here but that might be a conversation for another time J )? Ho hintaro! or that sort of thing? I have a question about conjugating verbs that start with a "w". I've noticed that sometimes they conjugate differently and I was hoping you'd be able to tell me why. Something tells me I may have asked you this before but I can't be sure LOL. For example: wasi - he/she dances waasi - I dance warasi - you dance wagaxe - he/she writes hapagaxe - I write swagaxe - you write Is there a reason they are done differently? Sky Campbell, B. A. Curriculum Materials Developer Language Department Otoe-Missouria Tribe 580-723-4466 ext. 111 sky at omtribe.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jul 2 22:13:44 2012 From: linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Bryan James Gordon) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:13:44 -0700 Subject: PREFIX "WA-" CONJUGATIONS In-Reply-To: <6E7497B1C0D740EDBA1C1E2F07C58ACD@JGHP> Message-ID: Ahó hiⁿtáro, rigrá^thu ke Sage hédaⁿ, daríhgawi je? There are a couple of ways to try to describe this system in ordinary English, one of them as an infix (which requires you to explain what an infix is), the other one as conjugating a verb that consists of two parts. The second way seems to be more in line with the academic linguistic explanation, which has wa- as a special prefix that sometimes affects the meaning of the root in special ways. (For instance in wachi it is unclear what the meanings of "wa" and "chi" are, although we can try to figure out how the word was formed historically.) An ordinary English explanation might look something like this: - Verbs like "wachi" are made up of more than one piece, and instead of putting the pronouns at the beginning, we put them before the second piece. - The I-form is irregular in verbs which have this "wa" piece. Instead of adding ha-, we add wa-. - Sometimes you can add this same "wa" piece to a verb to change its meaning from "doing an action to a particular thing or person" to "doing an action in general". For instance, ruje is to eat something in particular, while warúje is to eat food in general. These wa- verbs are conjugated the same way as verbs like wachi. I'm open for comments and criticisms of that explanation. Finding ordinary English explanations is becoming more and more central in my work, and I'm always looking for better ways to do it. Hope it helps! Dagúre^shuⁿ húⁿsrage rigráguⁿna ke, pí ramáñiwi iháre. Bryan 2012/7/2 Jimm GoodTracks > ** > A question comes from the Otoe-Missouria Language Dept. in regard to the > unique conjugation of "w-" prefixed verbs, such as, "wachí" (dance)[L/Dak], > wawáchi, I dance/ wayáchi, you dance; "wasí" (IOM). Also noted in (L/D) > "maní" (walk), mayáni, you walk. We are all aware of this phenomenon in > Siouan Languages, but I do not recall anyone discussing it. > > In the New Lakhota Dictionary: > "wa-" 1. indefinite object marker. Usage: can be translated with > 'people, things' and often gives the verb a more general or abstract > meaning" p.541 > NLD also speaks to a "large group of Lakota verbs isactive verbs. They > describe actions, espcially those governed or controlled by the actor. > They are the opposite of stative verbs.... that one has no controll over > them. ... Active verbs are thus all those verbs that do not take the > affixes ma- and ni- for I and you respectively." p.709 > > Can we have some explaination in easily understandable English that I may > share with the local language communities?? jimm > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Campbell, Sky > *To:* Jimm G. GoodTracks > *Sent:* Monday, July 02, 2012 9:24 AM > *Subject:* RE: Aho! > > Ah, so perhaps it is the difference between the wa- being instrumental > and the wa- being a part of the actual verb stem/root? Or is the “wa-“ in > “wasi” some other kind of prefix that I’m unaware of? I’ve noticed that > wa- wears a LOT of hats in Otoe-Missouria LOL.**** > > ** ** > > How was your weekend? Got plans for the 4th?**** > > ** ** > > *Sky Campbell, B. A.* > > Curriculum Materials Developer**** > > Language Department**** > > Otoe-Missouria Tribe**** > > 580-723-4466 ext. 111**** > > sky at omtribe.org**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Jimm G. GoodTracks [mailto:jgoodtracks at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, July 01, 2012 4:48 PM > *To:* Campbell, Sky > *Subject:* Re: Aho!**** > > ** ** > > Ho Hintado...... will be fine. Yes, you have the conjugations correct > for both "dance" & "write." Yes, there is a difference in the kind of > "wa-" prefix. For "write" the wa- is an instrumental. For dance, it is a > totally different phenomenon that occurs across Siouan languages. I will > try to research it, and see if I can bring you an explanation. Meanwhile, > It is not the only instance where it ocurrs. **** > > ** ** > > *From:* Campbell, Sky **** > > *Sent:* Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:50 AM**** > > *To:* Jimm G. GoodTracks **** > > *Subject:* RE: Aho!**** > > ** ** > > Thanks for the reply! I’ll go over this a few times to let it sink in. > If there needs to be some sort of kinship term, would hintaro work since > I’m not an Otoe relation (although following the thought of “we are all > related” may apply here but that might be a conversation for another time > J )? Ho hintaro! or that sort of thing?**** > > ** ** > > I have a question about conjugating verbs that start with a “w”. I’ve > noticed that sometimes they conjugate differently and I was hoping you’d be > able to tell me why. Something tells me I may have asked you this before > but I can’t be sure LOL. For example:**** > > ** ** > > wasi – he/she dances**** > > waasi – I dance**** > > warasi – you dance**** > > ** ** > > wagaxe – he/she writes**** > > hapagaxe – I write**** > > swagaxe – you write**** > > ** ** > > Is there a reason they are done differently?**** > > ** ** > > *Sky Campbell, B. A.* > > Curriculum Materials Developer**** > > Language Department**** > > Otoe-Missouria Tribe**** > > 580-723-4466 ext. 111**** > > sky at omtribe.org**** > > ** ** > > > -- *********************************************************** Bryan James Gordon, MA Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology University of Arizona *********************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 2 23:27:36 2012 From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 18:27:36 -0500 Subject: PREFIX "WA-" CONJUGATIONS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ho, Bryan, wógisan ritáwe wenáhinhi ke. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan James Gordon To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 5:13 PM Subject: Re: PREFIX "WA-" CONJUGATIONS Ahó hiⁿtáro, rigrá^thu ke Sage hédaⁿ, daríhgawi je? There are a couple of ways to try to describe this system in ordinary English, one of them as an infix (which requires you to explain what an infix is), the other one as conjugating a verb that consists of two parts. The second way seems to be more in line with the academic linguistic explanation, which has wa- as a special prefix that sometimes affects the meaning of the root in special ways. (For instance in wachi it is unclear what the meanings of "wa" and "chi" are, although we can try to figure out how the word was formed historically.) An ordinary English explanation might look something like this: a.. Verbs like "wachi" are made up of more than one piece, and instead of putting the pronouns at the beginning, we put them before the second piece. b.. The I-form is irregular in verbs which have this "wa" piece. Instead of adding ha-, we add wa-. c.. Sometimes you can add this same "wa" piece to a verb to change its meaning from "doing an action to a particular thing or person" to "doing an action in general". For instance, ruje is to eat something in particular, while warúje is to eat food in general. These wa- verbs are conjugated the same way as verbs like wachi. I'm open for comments and criticisms of that explanation. Finding ordinary English explanations is becoming more and more central in my work, and I'm always looking for better ways to do it. Hope it helps! Dagúre^shuⁿ húⁿsrage rigráguⁿna ke, pí ramáñiwi iháre. Bryan 2012/7/2 Jimm GoodTracks A question comes from the Otoe-Missouria Language Dept. in regard to the unique conjugation of "w-" prefixed verbs, such as, "wachí" (dance)[L/Dak], wawáchi, I dance/ wayáchi, you dance; "wasí" (IOM). Also noted in (L/D) "maní" (walk), mayáni, you walk. We are all aware of this phenomenon in Siouan Languages, but I do not recall anyone discussing it. In the New Lakhota Dictionary: "wa-" 1. indefinite object marker. Usage: can be translated with 'people, things' and often gives the verb a more general or abstract meaning" p.541 NLD also speaks to a "large group of Lakota verbs isactive verbs. They describe actions, espcially those governed or controlled by the actor. They are the opposite of stative verbs.... that one has no controll over them. ... Active verbs are thus all those verbs that do not take the affixes ma- and ni- for I and you respectively." p.709 Can we have some explaination in easily understandable English that I may share with the local language communities?? jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Campbell, Sky To: Jimm G. GoodTracks Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: RE: Aho! Ah, so perhaps it is the difference between the wa- being instrumental and the wa- being a part of the actual verb stem/root? Or is the “wa-“ in “wasi” some other kind of prefix that I’m unaware of? I’ve noticed that wa- wears a LOT of hats in Otoe-Missouria LOL. How was your weekend? Got plans for the 4th? Sky Campbell, B. A. Curriculum Materials Developer Language Department Otoe-Missouria Tribe 580-723-4466 ext. 111 sky at omtribe.org From: Jimm G. GoodTracks [mailto:jgoodtracks at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 4:48 PM To: Campbell, Sky Subject: Re: Aho! Ho Hintado...... will be fine. Yes, you have the conjugations correct for both "dance" & "write." Yes, there is a difference in the kind of "wa-" prefix. For "write" the wa- is an instrumental. For dance, it is a totally different phenomenon that occurs across Siouan languages. I will try to research it, and see if I can bring you an explanation. Meanwhile, It is not the only instance where it ocurrs. From: Campbell, Sky Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:50 AM To: Jimm G. GoodTracks Subject: RE: Aho! Thanks for the reply! I’ll go over this a few times to let it sink in. If there needs to be some sort of kinship term, would hintaro work since I’m not an Otoe relation (although following the thought of “we are all related” may apply here but that might be a conversation for another time J )? Ho hintaro! or that sort of thing? I have a question about conjugating verbs that start with a “w”. I’ve noticed that sometimes they conjugate differently and I was hoping you’d be able to tell me why. Something tells me I may have asked you this before but I can’t be sure LOL. For example: wasi – he/she dances waasi – I dance warasi – you dance wagaxe – he/she writes hapagaxe – I write swagaxe – you write Is there a reason they are done differently? Sky Campbell, B. A. Curriculum Materials Developer Language Department Otoe-Missouria Tribe 580-723-4466 ext. 111 sky at omtribe.org -- *********************************************************** Bryan James Gordon, MA Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology University of Arizona *********************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kathleendshea at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 3 03:18:14 2012 From: kathleendshea at GMAIL.COM (Kathleen D. Shea) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:18:14 -0500 Subject: conference comment In-Reply-To: <5E87B4AFA471B543884CD3128A7C8CC62362CFFF@EXCH10-MBX-01.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, also, for the kind words. Dave did most of the planning, and I'm glad everyone enjoyed the conference, as did I. I'm replying to this so late, because I jumped right into two weeks of CoLang courses, taking advantage of CoLang taking place at KU. It was great--kind of like being at summer camp, with no homework or finals but a lot of learning taking place. People from all over the world attended. Best wishes and a happy 4th to you all, Kathy Sent from my iPad On Jun 23, 2012, at 2:59 PM, "Rankin, Robert L." wrote: > Thanks for the kind words. Dave and Kathy did a great job. I just sort of sidewalk-superivsed. > > For those who didn't make it to Lawrence this year, next year's Siouan and Caddoan Conference will be held at the University of South Dakota at Vermillion, thanks to planning by David, John and Armik, who is at USD. After the meetings were over I talked with Marty Richardson and Doug Parks both of whom expressed interest in hosting a future meeting at the University of North Carolina and Indiana University respectively. I hope both will be able to follow up on this as time goes on. Right now we have no definite commitment for 2014 yet. > > Best, > > Bob > > ________________________________________ > From: Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of ROOD DAVID S [david.rood at COLORADO.EDU] > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 9:42 PM > To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu > Subject: conference comment > > I would like to join the chorus of praise and thanks to Dave, Bob and > Kathy for the wonderful conference just completed. It is gratifying to > see how this field has matured while still remaining welcoming to both > students and Native people. > > Best wishes, > David > > David S. Rood > Dept. of Linguistics > Univ. of Colorado > 295 UCB > Boulder, CO 80309-0295 > USA > rood at colorado.edu From shokoohbanou at YAHOO.CO.UK Tue Jul 3 16:20:57 2012 From: shokoohbanou at YAHOO.CO.UK (shokooh Ingham) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 17:20:57 +0100 Subject: Independence day In-Reply-To: <54A23369-A5B6-412D-B9A4-A8B020ABE0B8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Happy 4th of July to everyone over there, wherever appropriate. Bruce From rankin at KU.EDU Thu Jul 19 01:16:42 2012 From: rankin at KU.EDU (Rankin, Robert L.) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 01:16:42 +0000 Subject: FW: Article submissions sought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This was sent to me. I thought the group might be interested. They probably won't get a lot of submissions from Americanists, but I think we have contributions to make. Bob ________________________________ From: Journal of Linguistic Geography [mail.fkfmvteymtwbehrqp at cup.msgfocus.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 3:31 PM To: Rankin, Robert L. Subject: Article submissions sought Click here to view an online version of this email | Forward to friend [http://cup.msgfocus.com/files/amf_cup/project_460/image.jpg] Submit an Article / Sign Up for Content Alerts ________________________________ New in 2013: Journal of Linguistic Geography Editors: Bill Labov, University of Pennsylvania Dennis Preston, Oklahoma State University The Journal of Linguistic Geography is a new online-only publication currently seeking contributions from researchers across the field. Appropriate topics include: * Studies of regionally distributed linguistic facts that can be related to general questions of language change * Investigations of dialect diffusion, loss and learning * Investigations of folk or perpetual dialectology, particularly those that bear on the processes in the above * Experimental work on cross-dialectal perception and comprehension For inquiries or submissions, please email: linguisticgeography at okstate.edu Journal of Linguistic Geography will publish its inaugural issue online in Spring 2013. ________________________________ About the Journal The Journal of Linguistic Geography focuses on dialect geography and the spatial distribution of language relative to questions of variation and change. The journal examines topics in dialectology, sociolinguistics, historical linguistics, language in its sociocultural environment, typology, and investigations of the theoretical contributions by geographically based studies to general linguistics. Articles inclusive of maps, sound files, and data sets, as may be appropriate, are welcomed. Journal of Linguistic Geography [http://cup.msgfocus.com/files/amf_cup/project_460/JLGcoverOnline.jpg] ________________________________ Also of interest: Language Variation and Change [http://cup.msgfocus.com/files/amf_cup/project_460/LVC.jpg] Language in Society [http://cup.msgfocus.com/files/amf_cup/project_460/LSY_41.2.jpg] [http://cup.msgfocus.com/files/amf_cup/workspace_46/CUP_Bottom_header.jpg] This email was sent to you by Cambridge University Press, 32 Avenue of the Americas, New York, NY USA 10013 because you have expressed an interest in one of our products or services by registering your details on Cambridge Journals Online. If you no longer wish to receive emails concerning Cambridge Journals products and services, unsubscribe here. Please allow 28 days for all requests to be actioned. Privacy policy | contact us © Cambridge University Press. 2012. [http://cup.msgfocus.com/t/1MIQVbljzPescS.png] [http://cup.msgfocus.com/t/1MIQVbljzPescS.png] [https://cup.msgfocus.com/r/1nuvZnwWiEu9q5.png] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at YAHOO.COM Sat Jul 21 16:29:55 2012 From: saponi360 at YAHOO.COM (Scott Collins) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 09:29:55 -0700 Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat Message-ID: The Biloxi word for sweat is amixkthê   Dr. Rankin what would be the projected word for sweat in Tutelo-Saponi?           Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.” "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at YAHOO.COM Sat Jul 21 16:43:38 2012 From: saponi360 at YAHOO.COM (Scott Collins) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 09:43:38 -0700 Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat In-Reply-To: <1342888195.43637.YahooMailClassic@web181404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Also I saw a note by Kauffman in the Biloxi dictionary as such "hamixktädi"   "2. n. Sweat, perspiration. G. hamixktädi 41. DS. 229."   Is this word pronounced hameece-toady or homice-toddy?   Also what would the Proto-Siouan word for sweat be?   What is G. and 41.? and what is DS. 229?      Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.” "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." --- On Sat, 7/21/12, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 11:29 AM The Biloxi word for sweat is amixkthê   Dr. Rankin what would be the projected word for sweat in Tutelo-Saponi?           Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.” "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at KU.EDU Sat Jul 21 22:36:37 2012 From: rankin at KU.EDU (Rankin, Robert L.) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 22:36:37 +0000 Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat In-Reply-To: <1342889018.87124.YahooMailClassic@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Scott, I'm going to have to check into that. The consonant cluster -xkt- should not be possible in a Siouan word, so something is amiss here. The G. is for the Albert S. Gatschet manuscript of Biloxi vocabulary. I assume the 41 is a page number. DS 229 is Dorsey and Swanton's 1912 publication, p. 229. The Gatschet recording would be pronounced roughly "hah-miHk-teddy". The a with two dots over it is like "eh". I'm not sure we ever got around to a proto-Siouan word for 'sweat', but I'll check it out. Best, Bob ________________________________ From: Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at YAHOO.COM] Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 11:43 AM To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu Subject: Re: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat Also I saw a note by Kauffman in the Biloxi dictionary as such "hamixktädi" "2. n. Sweat, perspiration. G. hamixktädi 41. DS. 229." Is this word pronounced hameece-toady or homice-toddy? Also what would the Proto-Siouan word for sweat be? What is G. and 41.? and what is DS. 229? Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.” "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." --- On Sat, 7/21/12, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 11:29 AM The Biloxi word for sweat is amixkthê Dr. Rankin what would be the projected word for sweat in Tutelo-Saponi? Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.” "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM Sat Jul 21 23:02:13 2012 From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM (David Kaufman) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:02:13 -0500 Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat In-Reply-To: <5E87B4AFA471B543884CD3128A7C8CC6236307A7@EXCH10-MBX-01.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: Bob and Scott, amixkhte(di) would break down, as far as I've analyzed it, as amihi (amix-) 'heat' + k(i)the(di) 'hit', thus 'heat hit' (the /e/ of the should have a circumflex over it, which indicates its pronunciation like Gatschet a-umlaut). k(i), I believe, should be the dative prefix, the 'hit', and -di a type of assertive or emphatic suffix. Gatschet and Dorsey seemed to have written words down as their consultants said them, but it is apparent that, in Biloxi, there was a lot of vowel devoicing or epenthesis going on between consonants, which is why these "strange" Siouan clusters in Biloxi seem to arise. Hope this helps. Dave On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Rankin, Robert L. wrote: > Hi Scott, > > I'm going to have to check into that. The consonant cluster -xkt- should > not be possible in a Siouan word, so something is amiss here. > > The G. is for the Albert S. Gatschet manuscript of Biloxi vocabulary. I > assume the 41 is a page number. > > DS 229 is Dorsey and Swanton's 1912 publication, p. 229. > > The Gatschet recording would be pronounced roughly "hah-miHk-teddy". The > a with two dots over it is like "eh". > > I'm not sure we ever got around to a proto-Siouan word for 'sweat', but > I'll check it out. > > Best, > > Bob > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of Scott > Collins [saponi360 at YAHOO.COM] > *Sent:* Saturday, July 21, 2012 11:43 AM > *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu > *Subject:* Re: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat > > Also I saw a note by Kauffman in the Biloxi dictionary as such "hamixktädi" > > > "2. *n*. Sweat, perspiration. > G. hamixktädi 41. > DS. 229." > > Is this word pronounced hameece-toady or homice-toddy? > > Also what would the Proto-Siouan word for sweat be? > > What is G. and 41.? and what is DS. 229? > > > > Scott P. Collins > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR > > Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle > > “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.” > > "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." > > --- On *Sat, 7/21/12, Scott Collins * wrote: > > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat > To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu > Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 11:29 AM > > The Biloxi word for sweat is amixkthê > > Dr. Rankin what would be the projected word for sweat in Tutelo-Saponi? > > > > > > > > Scott P. Collins > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR > > Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle > > “Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.” > > "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." > > -- David Kaufman, Ph.C. University of Kansas Linguistic Anthropology -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at KU.EDU Sat Jul 21 23:18:05 2012 From: rankin at KU.EDU (Rankin, Robert L.) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 23:18:05 +0000 Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > amixkhte(di) would break down, as far as I've analyzed it, as amihi (amix-) 'heat' + k(i)the(di) 'hit', thus 'heat hit' (the /e/ of the should have a circumflex over it, which indicates its pronunciation like Gatschet a-umlaut). k(i), I believe, should be the dative prefix, the 'hit', and -di a type of assertive or emphatic suffix. Gatschet and Dorsey seemed to have written words down as their consultants said them, but it is apparent that, in Biloxi, there was a lot of vowel devoicing or epenthesis going on between consonants, which is why these "strange" Siouan clusters in Biloxi seem to arise. Here's the comparative entry for 'sweat'. GLOSS[ sweat †rį Proto Mississippi Valley[ *-wrį Proto-Ddkotan[ *-mnį́ LA[ the_mní ‘sweat, pant’ B-487 DA[ themní ‘sweat, pant’ R-466b ProtoDHegiha[ *oRábrį OP[ †onáabðį “unábthiⁿ” ‘sweat’ SW-167 OS[ †otaabri “udabthi” ‘sweat’ LF-167a COMments[ Cf. DA iní thí ‘sweat lodge’. Several Dakotan forms with {-ni-} suggest this stem is bimorphemic, probably {*wa-rį́} originally. It seems likely that this form arose in MVS though, since if it were PSI it should be treated exactly like ‘water,’ with which it would have been homophonous. Note that nasalization is complete only in Dakotan. Biloxi hamixktädi (G-41) does not apparently fit this pattern. So Biloxi seems different, and I can't guess at a Tutelo word. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 2 17:47:29 2012 From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 12:47:29 -0500 Subject: PREFIX "WA-" CONJUGATIONS In-Reply-To: <72663936A7BBD841B5FB12A49C95E436783BEAD173@Server6-EX.omtribe.net> Message-ID: A question comes from the Otoe-Missouria Language Dept. in regard to the unique conjugation of "w-" prefixed verbs, such as, "wach?" (dance)[L/Dak], waw?chi, I dance/ way?chi, you dance; "was?" (IOM). Also noted in (L/D) "man?" (walk), may?ni, you walk. We are all aware of this phenomenon in Siouan Languages, but I do not recall anyone discussing it. In the New Lakhota Dictionary: "wa-" 1. indefinite object marker. Usage: can be translated with 'people, things' and often gives the verb a more general or abstract meaning" p.541 NLD also speaks to a "large group of Lakota verbs isactive verbs. They describe actions, espcially those governed or controlled by the actor. They are the opposite of stative verbs.... that one has no controll over them. ... Active verbs are thus all those verbs that do not take the affixes ma- and ni- for I and you respectively." p.709 Can we have some explaination in easily understandable English that I may share with the local language communities?? jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Campbell, Sky To: Jimm G. GoodTracks Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: RE: Aho! Ah, so perhaps it is the difference between the wa- being instrumental and the wa- being a part of the actual verb stem/root? Or is the "wa-" in "wasi" some other kind of prefix that I'm unaware of? I've noticed that wa- wears a LOT of hats in Otoe-Missouria LOL. How was your weekend? Got plans for the 4th? Sky Campbell, B. A. Curriculum Materials Developer Language Department Otoe-Missouria Tribe 580-723-4466 ext. 111 sky at omtribe.org From: Jimm G. GoodTracks [mailto:jgoodtracks at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 4:48 PM To: Campbell, Sky Subject: Re: Aho! Ho Hintado...... will be fine. Yes, you have the conjugations correct for both "dance" & "write." Yes, there is a difference in the kind of "wa-" prefix. For "write" the wa- is an instrumental. For dance, it is a totally different phenomenon that occurs across Siouan languages. I will try to research it, and see if I can bring you an explanation. Meanwhile, It is not the only instance where it ocurrs. From: Campbell, Sky Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:50 AM To: Jimm G. GoodTracks Subject: RE: Aho! Thanks for the reply! I'll go over this a few times to let it sink in. If there needs to be some sort of kinship term, would hintaro work since I'm not an Otoe relation (although following the thought of "we are all related" may apply here but that might be a conversation for another time J )? Ho hintaro! or that sort of thing? I have a question about conjugating verbs that start with a "w". I've noticed that sometimes they conjugate differently and I was hoping you'd be able to tell me why. Something tells me I may have asked you this before but I can't be sure LOL. For example: wasi - he/she dances waasi - I dance warasi - you dance wagaxe - he/she writes hapagaxe - I write swagaxe - you write Is there a reason they are done differently? Sky Campbell, B. A. Curriculum Materials Developer Language Department Otoe-Missouria Tribe 580-723-4466 ext. 111 sky at omtribe.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU Mon Jul 2 22:13:44 2012 From: linguist at EMAIL.ARIZONA.EDU (Bryan James Gordon) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 15:13:44 -0700 Subject: PREFIX "WA-" CONJUGATIONS In-Reply-To: <6E7497B1C0D740EDBA1C1E2F07C58ACD@JGHP> Message-ID: Ah? hi?t?ro, rigr?^thu ke Sage h?da?, dar?hgawi je? There are a couple of ways to try to describe this system in ordinary English, one of them as an infix (which requires you to explain what an infix is), the other one as conjugating a verb that consists of two parts. The second way seems to be more in line with the academic linguistic explanation, which has wa- as a special prefix that sometimes affects the meaning of the root in special ways. (For instance in wachi it is unclear what the meanings of "wa" and "chi" are, although we can try to figure out how the word was formed historically.) An ordinary English explanation might look something like this: - Verbs like "wachi" are made up of more than one piece, and instead of putting the pronouns at the beginning, we put them before the second piece. - The I-form is irregular in verbs which have this "wa" piece. Instead of adding ha-, we add wa-. - Sometimes you can add this same "wa" piece to a verb to change its meaning from "doing an action to a particular thing or person" to "doing an action in general". For instance, ruje is to eat something in particular, while war?je is to eat food in general. These wa- verbs are conjugated the same way as verbs like wachi. I'm open for comments and criticisms of that explanation. Finding ordinary English explanations is becoming more and more central in my work, and I'm always looking for better ways to do it. Hope it helps! Dag?re^shu? h??srage rigr?gu?na ke, p? ram??iwi ih?re. Bryan 2012/7/2 Jimm GoodTracks > ** > A question comes from the Otoe-Missouria Language Dept. in regard to the > unique conjugation of "w-" prefixed verbs, such as, "wach?" (dance)[L/Dak], > waw?chi, I dance/ way?chi, you dance; "was?" (IOM). Also noted in (L/D) > "man?" (walk), may?ni, you walk. We are all aware of this phenomenon in > Siouan Languages, but I do not recall anyone discussing it. > > In the New Lakhota Dictionary: > "wa-" 1. indefinite object marker. Usage: can be translated with > 'people, things' and often gives the verb a more general or abstract > meaning" p.541 > NLD also speaks to a "large group of Lakota verbs isactive verbs. They > describe actions, espcially those governed or controlled by the actor. > They are the opposite of stative verbs.... that one has no controll over > them. ... Active verbs are thus all those verbs that do not take the > affixes ma- and ni- for I and you respectively." p.709 > > Can we have some explaination in easily understandable English that I may > share with the local language communities?? jimm > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Campbell, Sky > *To:* Jimm G. GoodTracks > *Sent:* Monday, July 02, 2012 9:24 AM > *Subject:* RE: Aho! > > Ah, so perhaps it is the difference between the wa- being instrumental > and the wa- being a part of the actual verb stem/root? Or is the ?wa-? in > ?wasi? some other kind of prefix that I?m unaware of? I?ve noticed that > wa- wears a LOT of hats in Otoe-Missouria LOL.**** > > ** ** > > How was your weekend? Got plans for the 4th?**** > > ** ** > > *Sky Campbell, B. A.* > > Curriculum Materials Developer**** > > Language Department**** > > Otoe-Missouria Tribe**** > > 580-723-4466 ext. 111**** > > sky at omtribe.org**** > > ** ** > > *From:* Jimm G. GoodTracks [mailto:jgoodtracks at gmail.com] > *Sent:* Sunday, July 01, 2012 4:48 PM > *To:* Campbell, Sky > *Subject:* Re: Aho!**** > > ** ** > > Ho Hintado...... will be fine. Yes, you have the conjugations correct > for both "dance" & "write." Yes, there is a difference in the kind of > "wa-" prefix. For "write" the wa- is an instrumental. For dance, it is a > totally different phenomenon that occurs across Siouan languages. I will > try to research it, and see if I can bring you an explanation. Meanwhile, > It is not the only instance where it ocurrs. **** > > ** ** > > *From:* Campbell, Sky **** > > *Sent:* Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:50 AM**** > > *To:* Jimm G. GoodTracks **** > > *Subject:* RE: Aho!**** > > ** ** > > Thanks for the reply! I?ll go over this a few times to let it sink in. > If there needs to be some sort of kinship term, would hintaro work since > I?m not an Otoe relation (although following the thought of ?we are all > related? may apply here but that might be a conversation for another time > J )? Ho hintaro! or that sort of thing?**** > > ** ** > > I have a question about conjugating verbs that start with a ?w?. I?ve > noticed that sometimes they conjugate differently and I was hoping you?d be > able to tell me why. Something tells me I may have asked you this before > but I can?t be sure LOL. For example:**** > > ** ** > > wasi ? he/she dances**** > > waasi ? I dance**** > > warasi ? you dance**** > > ** ** > > wagaxe ? he/she writes**** > > hapagaxe ? I write**** > > swagaxe ? you write**** > > ** ** > > Is there a reason they are done differently?**** > > ** ** > > *Sky Campbell, B. A.* > > Curriculum Materials Developer**** > > Language Department**** > > Otoe-Missouria Tribe**** > > 580-723-4466 ext. 111**** > > sky at omtribe.org**** > > ** ** > > > -- *********************************************************** Bryan James Gordon, MA Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology University of Arizona *********************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM Mon Jul 2 23:27:36 2012 From: jgoodtracks at GMAIL.COM (Jimm GoodTracks) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 18:27:36 -0500 Subject: PREFIX "WA-" CONJUGATIONS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ho, Bryan, w?gisan rit?we wen?hinhi ke. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan James Gordon To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 5:13 PM Subject: Re: PREFIX "WA-" CONJUGATIONS Ah? hi?t?ro, rigr?^thu ke Sage h?da?, dar?hgawi je? There are a couple of ways to try to describe this system in ordinary English, one of them as an infix (which requires you to explain what an infix is), the other one as conjugating a verb that consists of two parts. The second way seems to be more in line with the academic linguistic explanation, which has wa- as a special prefix that sometimes affects the meaning of the root in special ways. (For instance in wachi it is unclear what the meanings of "wa" and "chi" are, although we can try to figure out how the word was formed historically.) An ordinary English explanation might look something like this: a.. Verbs like "wachi" are made up of more than one piece, and instead of putting the pronouns at the beginning, we put them before the second piece. b.. The I-form is irregular in verbs which have this "wa" piece. Instead of adding ha-, we add wa-. c.. Sometimes you can add this same "wa" piece to a verb to change its meaning from "doing an action to a particular thing or person" to "doing an action in general". For instance, ruje is to eat something in particular, while war?je is to eat food in general. These wa- verbs are conjugated the same way as verbs like wachi. I'm open for comments and criticisms of that explanation. Finding ordinary English explanations is becoming more and more central in my work, and I'm always looking for better ways to do it. Hope it helps! Dag?re^shu? h??srage rigr?gu?na ke, p? ram??iwi ih?re. Bryan 2012/7/2 Jimm GoodTracks A question comes from the Otoe-Missouria Language Dept. in regard to the unique conjugation of "w-" prefixed verbs, such as, "wach?" (dance)[L/Dak], waw?chi, I dance/ way?chi, you dance; "was?" (IOM). Also noted in (L/D) "man?" (walk), may?ni, you walk. We are all aware of this phenomenon in Siouan Languages, but I do not recall anyone discussing it. In the New Lakhota Dictionary: "wa-" 1. indefinite object marker. Usage: can be translated with 'people, things' and often gives the verb a more general or abstract meaning" p.541 NLD also speaks to a "large group of Lakota verbs isactive verbs. They describe actions, espcially those governed or controlled by the actor. They are the opposite of stative verbs.... that one has no controll over them. ... Active verbs are thus all those verbs that do not take the affixes ma- and ni- for I and you respectively." p.709 Can we have some explaination in easily understandable English that I may share with the local language communities?? jimm ----- Original Message ----- From: Campbell, Sky To: Jimm G. GoodTracks Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 9:24 AM Subject: RE: Aho! Ah, so perhaps it is the difference between the wa- being instrumental and the wa- being a part of the actual verb stem/root? Or is the ?wa-? in ?wasi? some other kind of prefix that I?m unaware of? I?ve noticed that wa- wears a LOT of hats in Otoe-Missouria LOL. How was your weekend? Got plans for the 4th? Sky Campbell, B. A. Curriculum Materials Developer Language Department Otoe-Missouria Tribe 580-723-4466 ext. 111 sky at omtribe.org From: Jimm G. GoodTracks [mailto:jgoodtracks at gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2012 4:48 PM To: Campbell, Sky Subject: Re: Aho! Ho Hintado...... will be fine. Yes, you have the conjugations correct for both "dance" & "write." Yes, there is a difference in the kind of "wa-" prefix. For "write" the wa- is an instrumental. For dance, it is a totally different phenomenon that occurs across Siouan languages. I will try to research it, and see if I can bring you an explanation. Meanwhile, It is not the only instance where it ocurrs. From: Campbell, Sky Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:50 AM To: Jimm G. GoodTracks Subject: RE: Aho! Thanks for the reply! I?ll go over this a few times to let it sink in. If there needs to be some sort of kinship term, would hintaro work since I?m not an Otoe relation (although following the thought of ?we are all related? may apply here but that might be a conversation for another time J )? Ho hintaro! or that sort of thing? I have a question about conjugating verbs that start with a ?w?. I?ve noticed that sometimes they conjugate differently and I was hoping you?d be able to tell me why. Something tells me I may have asked you this before but I can?t be sure LOL. For example: wasi ? he/she dances waasi ? I dance warasi ? you dance wagaxe ? he/she writes hapagaxe ? I write swagaxe ? you write Is there a reason they are done differently? Sky Campbell, B. A. Curriculum Materials Developer Language Department Otoe-Missouria Tribe 580-723-4466 ext. 111 sky at omtribe.org -- *********************************************************** Bryan James Gordon, MA Joint PhD Program in Linguistics and Anthropology University of Arizona *********************************************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kathleendshea at GMAIL.COM Tue Jul 3 03:18:14 2012 From: kathleendshea at GMAIL.COM (Kathleen D. Shea) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 22:18:14 -0500 Subject: conference comment In-Reply-To: <5E87B4AFA471B543884CD3128A7C8CC62362CFFF@EXCH10-MBX-01.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: Thanks, also, for the kind words. Dave did most of the planning, and I'm glad everyone enjoyed the conference, as did I. I'm replying to this so late, because I jumped right into two weeks of CoLang courses, taking advantage of CoLang taking place at KU. It was great--kind of like being at summer camp, with no homework or finals but a lot of learning taking place. People from all over the world attended. Best wishes and a happy 4th to you all, Kathy Sent from my iPad On Jun 23, 2012, at 2:59 PM, "Rankin, Robert L." wrote: > Thanks for the kind words. Dave and Kathy did a great job. I just sort of sidewalk-superivsed. > > For those who didn't make it to Lawrence this year, next year's Siouan and Caddoan Conference will be held at the University of South Dakota at Vermillion, thanks to planning by David, John and Armik, who is at USD. After the meetings were over I talked with Marty Richardson and Doug Parks both of whom expressed interest in hosting a future meeting at the University of North Carolina and Indiana University respectively. I hope both will be able to follow up on this as time goes on. Right now we have no definite commitment for 2014 yet. > > Best, > > Bob > > ________________________________________ > From: Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of ROOD DAVID S [david.rood at COLORADO.EDU] > Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 9:42 PM > To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu > Subject: conference comment > > I would like to join the chorus of praise and thanks to Dave, Bob and > Kathy for the wonderful conference just completed. It is gratifying to > see how this field has matured while still remaining welcoming to both > students and Native people. > > Best wishes, > David > > David S. Rood > Dept. of Linguistics > Univ. of Colorado > 295 UCB > Boulder, CO 80309-0295 > USA > rood at colorado.edu From shokoohbanou at YAHOO.CO.UK Tue Jul 3 16:20:57 2012 From: shokoohbanou at YAHOO.CO.UK (shokooh Ingham) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2012 17:20:57 +0100 Subject: Independence day In-Reply-To: <54A23369-A5B6-412D-B9A4-A8B020ABE0B8@gmail.com> Message-ID: Happy 4th of July to everyone over there, wherever appropriate. Bruce From rankin at KU.EDU Thu Jul 19 01:16:42 2012 From: rankin at KU.EDU (Rankin, Robert L.) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2012 01:16:42 +0000 Subject: FW: Article submissions sought In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This was sent to me. I thought the group might be interested. They probably won't get a lot of submissions from Americanists, but I think we have contributions to make. Bob ________________________________ From: Journal of Linguistic Geography [mail.fkfmvteymtwbehrqp at cup.msgfocus.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 3:31 PM To: Rankin, Robert L. Subject: Article submissions sought Click here to view an online version of this email | Forward to friend [http://cup.msgfocus.com/files/amf_cup/project_460/image.jpg] Submit an Article / Sign Up for Content Alerts ________________________________ New in 2013: Journal of Linguistic Geography Editors: Bill Labov, University of Pennsylvania Dennis Preston, Oklahoma State University The Journal of Linguistic Geography is a new online-only publication currently seeking contributions from researchers across the field. Appropriate topics include: * Studies of regionally distributed linguistic facts that can be related to general questions of language change * Investigations of dialect diffusion, loss and learning * Investigations of folk or perpetual dialectology, particularly those that bear on the processes in the above * Experimental work on cross-dialectal perception and comprehension For inquiries or submissions, please email: linguisticgeography at okstate.edu Journal of Linguistic Geography will publish its inaugural issue online in Spring 2013. ________________________________ About the Journal The Journal of Linguistic Geography focuses on dialect geography and the spatial distribution of language relative to questions of variation and change. The journal examines topics in dialectology, sociolinguistics, historical linguistics, language in its sociocultural environment, typology, and investigations of the theoretical contributions by geographically based studies to general linguistics. Articles inclusive of maps, sound files, and data sets, as may be appropriate, are welcomed. Journal of Linguistic Geography [http://cup.msgfocus.com/files/amf_cup/project_460/JLGcoverOnline.jpg] ________________________________ Also of interest: Language Variation and Change [http://cup.msgfocus.com/files/amf_cup/project_460/LVC.jpg] Language in Society [http://cup.msgfocus.com/files/amf_cup/project_460/LSY_41.2.jpg] [http://cup.msgfocus.com/files/amf_cup/workspace_46/CUP_Bottom_header.jpg] This email was sent to you by Cambridge University Press, 32 Avenue of the Americas, New York, NY USA 10013 because you have expressed an interest in one of our products or services by registering your details on Cambridge Journals Online. If you no longer wish to receive emails concerning Cambridge Journals products and services, unsubscribe here. Please allow 28 days for all requests to be actioned. Privacy policy | contact us ? Cambridge University Press. 2012. [http://cup.msgfocus.com/t/1MIQVbljzPescS.png] [http://cup.msgfocus.com/t/1MIQVbljzPescS.png] [https://cup.msgfocus.com/r/1nuvZnwWiEu9q5.png] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at YAHOO.COM Sat Jul 21 16:29:55 2012 From: saponi360 at YAHOO.COM (Scott Collins) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 09:29:55 -0700 Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat Message-ID: The Biloxi word for sweat is amixkth? ? Dr. Rankin what would be the projected word for sweat in Tutelo-Saponi? ? ? ? ? ? Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle ?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.? "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From saponi360 at YAHOO.COM Sat Jul 21 16:43:38 2012 From: saponi360 at YAHOO.COM (Scott Collins) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 09:43:38 -0700 Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat In-Reply-To: <1342888195.43637.YahooMailClassic@web181404.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Also I saw a note by Kauffman in the Biloxi dictionary as such "hamixkt?di" ? "2. n. Sweat, perspiration. G. hamixkt?di 41. DS. 229." ? Is this word pronounced hameece-toady or homice-toddy? ? Also what would the Proto-Siouan word for sweat be? ? What is G. and 41.? and what is DS. 229?? ? ? Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle ?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.? "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." --- On Sat, 7/21/12, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 11:29 AM The Biloxi word for sweat is amixkth? ? Dr. Rankin what would be the projected word for sweat in Tutelo-Saponi? ? ? ? ? ? Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle ?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.? "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at KU.EDU Sat Jul 21 22:36:37 2012 From: rankin at KU.EDU (Rankin, Robert L.) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 22:36:37 +0000 Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat In-Reply-To: <1342889018.87124.YahooMailClassic@web181406.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hi Scott, I'm going to have to check into that. The consonant cluster -xkt- should not be possible in a Siouan word, so something is amiss here. The G. is for the Albert S. Gatschet manuscript of Biloxi vocabulary. I assume the 41 is a page number. DS 229 is Dorsey and Swanton's 1912 publication, p. 229. The Gatschet recording would be pronounced roughly "hah-miHk-teddy". The a with two dots over it is like "eh". I'm not sure we ever got around to a proto-Siouan word for 'sweat', but I'll check it out. Best, Bob ________________________________ From: Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of Scott Collins [saponi360 at YAHOO.COM] Sent: Saturday, July 21, 2012 11:43 AM To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu Subject: Re: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat Also I saw a note by Kauffman in the Biloxi dictionary as such "hamixkt?di" "2. n. Sweat, perspiration. G. hamixkt?di 41. DS. 229." Is this word pronounced hameece-toady or homice-toddy? Also what would the Proto-Siouan word for sweat be? What is G. and 41.? and what is DS. 229? Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle ?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.? "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." --- On Sat, 7/21/12, Scott Collins wrote: From: Scott Collins Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 11:29 AM The Biloxi word for sweat is amixkth? Dr. Rankin what would be the projected word for sweat in Tutelo-Saponi? Scott P. Collins ---------------------------------------------------------------------- WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle ?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.? "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM Sat Jul 21 23:02:13 2012 From: dvkanth2010 at GMAIL.COM (David Kaufman) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 18:02:13 -0500 Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat In-Reply-To: <5E87B4AFA471B543884CD3128A7C8CC6236307A7@EXCH10-MBX-01.home.ku.edu> Message-ID: Bob and Scott, amixkhte(di) would break down, as far as I've analyzed it, as amihi (amix-) 'heat' + k(i)the(di) 'hit', thus 'heat hit' (the /e/ of the should have a circumflex over it, which indicates its pronunciation like Gatschet a-umlaut). k(i), I believe, should be the dative prefix, the 'hit', and -di a type of assertive or emphatic suffix. Gatschet and Dorsey seemed to have written words down as their consultants said them, but it is apparent that, in Biloxi, there was a lot of vowel devoicing or epenthesis going on between consonants, which is why these "strange" Siouan clusters in Biloxi seem to arise. Hope this helps. Dave On Sat, Jul 21, 2012 at 5:36 PM, Rankin, Robert L. wrote: > Hi Scott, > > I'm going to have to check into that. The consonant cluster -xkt- should > not be possible in a Siouan word, so something is amiss here. > > The G. is for the Albert S. Gatschet manuscript of Biloxi vocabulary. I > assume the 41 is a page number. > > DS 229 is Dorsey and Swanton's 1912 publication, p. 229. > > The Gatschet recording would be pronounced roughly "hah-miHk-teddy". The > a with two dots over it is like "eh". > > I'm not sure we ever got around to a proto-Siouan word for 'sweat', but > I'll check it out. > > Best, > > Bob > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Siouan Linguistics [SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu] on behalf of Scott > Collins [saponi360 at YAHOO.COM] > *Sent:* Saturday, July 21, 2012 11:43 AM > *To:* SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu > *Subject:* Re: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat > > Also I saw a note by Kauffman in the Biloxi dictionary as such "hamixkt?di" > > > "2. *n*. Sweat, perspiration. > G. hamixkt?di 41. > DS. 229." > > Is this word pronounced hameece-toady or homice-toddy? > > Also what would the Proto-Siouan word for sweat be? > > What is G. and 41.? and what is DS. 229? > > > > Scott P. Collins > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR > > Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle > > ?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.? > > "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." > > --- On *Sat, 7/21/12, Scott Collins * wrote: > > > From: Scott Collins > Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat > To: SIOUAN at listserv.unl.edu > Date: Saturday, July 21, 2012, 11:29 AM > > The Biloxi word for sweat is amixkth? > > Dr. Rankin what would be the projected word for sweat in Tutelo-Saponi? > > > > > > > > Scott P. Collins > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > WE ARE THE ONES WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR > > Evil Is An Outer Manifestation Of An Inner Struggle > > ?Men and women become accomplices to those evils they fail to oppose.? > > "The greater the denial the greater the awakening." > > -- David Kaufman, Ph.C. University of Kansas Linguistic Anthropology -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rankin at KU.EDU Sat Jul 21 23:18:05 2012 From: rankin at KU.EDU (Rankin, Robert L.) Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2012 23:18:05 +0000 Subject: Tutelo-Saponi/Yesanechi Word For Sweat In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > amixkhte(di) would break down, as far as I've analyzed it, as amihi (amix-) 'heat' + k(i)the(di) 'hit', thus 'heat hit' (the /e/ of the should have a circumflex over it, which indicates its pronunciation like Gatschet a-umlaut). k(i), I believe, should be the dative prefix, the 'hit', and -di a type of assertive or emphatic suffix. Gatschet and Dorsey seemed to have written words down as their consultants said them, but it is apparent that, in Biloxi, there was a lot of vowel devoicing or epenthesis going on between consonants, which is why these "strange" Siouan clusters in Biloxi seem to arise. Here's the comparative entry for 'sweat'. GLOSS[ sweat ?r? Proto Mississippi Valley[ *-wr? Proto-Ddkotan[ *-mn?? LA[ the_mn? ?sweat, pant? B-487 DA[ themn? ?sweat, pant? R-466b ProtoDHegiha[ *oR?br? OP[ ?on?ab?? ?un?bthi?? ?sweat? SW-167 OS[ ?otaabri ?udabthi? ?sweat? LF-167a COMments[ Cf. DA in? th? ?sweat lodge?. Several Dakotan forms with {-ni-} suggest this stem is bimorphemic, probably {*wa-r??} originally. It seems likely that this form arose in MVS though, since if it were PSI it should be treated exactly like ?water,? with which it would have been homophonous. Note that nasalization is complete only in Dakotan. Biloxi hamixkt?di (G-41) does not apparently fit this pattern. So Biloxi seems different, and I can't guess at a Tutelo word. Bob -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: